Am I Not Beautiful, Studly, And Therefore Profoundly Datable?

by admin on June 20, 2011

I had to write in and tell you about yet another story because in a way I promised someone that I would. Read on and you’ll see :)

I put myself through university and attended full time classes while working. This meant that I had to study whenever I could. Just before winter exams, I was cramming for a final in a campus coffee shop. I was sitting on a couch and this cute guy asked if he could join me because all of the tables were full. I nodded and went back to studying. And he began talking. And talking. Finally I politely told him that I had an exam in about an hour and still needed to review some things for it. He promised to be quiet if I would agree to go for dinner with him the next night. I agreed. He kept talking. Finally I had to head to my class and he insisted on walking me and stood right outside the open door and announced that we would have a great date. By this time the entire room had settled and most people in the back heard him. Embarrassing!

I wrote the exam and headed home. I wasn’t in the door for five minutes when he called to see if I wanted to go grab a quick coffee. I wasn’t busy and so I agreed. My grandmother had also died a week earlier and I was devastated and needed a distraction because I couldn’t afford to fly home for her funeral. So we went for coffee and I’ve never been out with a man who talked so much about his appearance. At one point he asked me what I thought he was. I was confused by what he meant until he clarified that he wanted me to guess his ethnic background. He lit up like a child at Christmas when he told me that he’s Lebanese and Irish and that’s why his skin looks so tanned but his eyes are so blue. And his teeth! Did I notice how white his teeth were? Then he made me touch his arm because holy cow was his skin soft! I chalked his self promoting up to nerves. I’m 5’3 and he was a little shorter than me. I figured that he was nervous and really wanted to sell himself.

About an hour after our coffee date he called again and asked if he could cook me dinner that night. I wanted to figure him out and so I went over. His place was decorated with some interesting things and he asked if I wanted to “see something cool”. Then he flexed. And then rolled up his jeans to show me how defined his calves were. The bragging continued. He regaled me with tales of being in the top five in his program and of how he had once been a Calvin Klein underwear model. I don’t know if it was my majoring in psychology or a need for distraction or both but I still went for dinner the next night. He decided that it was finally time to talk about me this time. He successfully guessed my size, weight and bra size. Back then I was still recovering from an eating disorder and I hated that he knew that I was a size 8. I felt fat and disgusting and was mortified that he had just announced that and what I weighed.

I spent the next couple of weeks seeing him here and there because I wanted to give him a fair chance. One night it was colder than normal and I didn’t have a car. I was close to where he lived and a good hour’s walk from home so I called to see if he could pick me up. He replied that he was in sweats and didn’t like to leave the house when he didn’t look his best so no. He would not pick me up. I understood and we didn’t really talk again before Christmas break. Reading week arrived and who would walk into my coffee shop? He wanted to take me out again because he realized that he had been a jerk and he wanted to make it up to me. I refused and he badgered me until I gave in. We went to another coffee shop when I closed mine and he began to tell me about…a new girl he was trying to date. He told me about how tall she was, how tanned her skin was and how amazingly sexy she was. Apparently short women with fair skin looked “ill” to him and he had never found them (us) attractive. He told me about a diamond necklace that he had bought her because he just had to see its gold on her skin. He told me how rich her family was etc and then he dropped the bomb. He told me her weight and size including her bra size. As he said that last part he added that he liked that she wore a small B cup because anything over that was “gross”. At that point I reminded him that he had successfully guessed that I’m a C and I got up and left. He chased me outside and asked what he had done wrong. I replied that one day I was going to write a book about my bad dates and that he could read it then. He looked absolutely petrified and pleaded with me not to because it would ruin him. I kid you not.

Anyhow I never did write the book but I figure this still counts and I can say that I kept my promise to write about him :) I’m happy to say that I’m very happily engaged to a wonderful man who thinks that I’m beautiful and tells me daily.   0619-11

{ 86 comments… read them below or add one }

josie June 20, 2011 at 7:05 am

He was an odd one, wasn’t he?

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etimodnar June 20, 2011 at 7:17 am

Red flags were going up when he wouldn’t respect you and your need to study for an exam by continuing to talk. Red flags continued when he talked incessantly of his appearance. Although it was gracious of you to give him so many chances, I’m not surprised at his lack of tact or memory or the way the story ended. I think you made a lapse in judgement by continuing the acquaintance :)

“I cannot accommodate that request” …for a date, for continuing to listen to him, for going for coffee, for making it up to you, etc.

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Tracey June 20, 2011 at 7:49 am

What an interesting, albeit strange, guy! I bet with your physchology background you would have LOVED to get inside of his head and figure out why he had to sell himself 24/7. Wonder what kind of person will fall in love with him? He seems very fragile.

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Leigh June 20, 2011 at 7:57 am

I don’t know how you managed to put up with him as long as you did. Consider him a bullet dodged.

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J's Mama June 20, 2011 at 8:04 am

I’m going to take a wild guess that he’s never had a girlfriend. I would have found a new coffee shop after the first time he wouldn’t stop annoying you. I think he probably got vibes that you weren’t very as into him as he was into you, so he created another girl to make you jealous.

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Brian Katcher June 20, 2011 at 8:07 am

You gave him about ten more chances than most women would have. I guess it was kind of like watching a car wreck.

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ellesee June 20, 2011 at 8:14 am

I’m confused about this story. So….OP meets a vain, self-absorbed guy who made her feel self-conscious but decides to go out with him anyway, and then gets offended when she discovers shes not his type.
No offense, but I don’t think this “adonis” was intentionally insulting the OP and was expressing (in an insensitive manner and unaware of her insecurities) what he liked/disliked in dates . It seems to me that he wanted to be friends with OP instead.

Anyway, at least he’s out of your life!

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Hemi Halliwell June 20, 2011 at 8:20 am

Congratulations on your engagement and I wish you a wonderful marriage. Congratulations for overcoming your eating disorder and I hope you continue to do well managing that.

I guess it is a good thing that some men take pride in their apperance but this guy it waaay over the top. I wonder who filled his head with all the “you are so great-looking” bologna. After several dates where all he did was talk about how great looking he was and then refusing to come pick you up on a cold night just because he was in sweats and “didn’t look his best”, why would you continue to see him? He would rather let someone he was suppose to be dating walk an hour home in the cold just because he felt he didn’t look best?! Really? Total jerk.

What was with the guessing everyone’s height, weight and bra size? Did he work part-time in a carnival? I wonder what would happen if someone thought he wasn’t so great-looking?

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DGS June 20, 2011 at 8:20 am

This guy sounds like a social equivalent of an H-bomb, but I do have one question for the OP:

1) WHY ON EARTH DID YOU AGREE TO GO OUT WITH HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE? If a person does not pick up on an obvious social cue, such as that you are engrossed in your materials and trying to study, what makes you believe that this person is going to continue to pick up on social cues? And if you are such a generous soul that would give this oaf a chance, why did you proceed to agree to go out with him when he would not leave you at your class in peace, and why did you then not walk out through his tally of his physical assets on your date, and then, why did you go back to his place (creepy on his part, not very sensible in terms of protecting your safety on yours) on a first date and then, why did you agree to give him yet another chance? And, any time anyone decides to guess your weight/bra size/height/shoe size/ethnic heritage, etc., isn’t that a giant clue about that person being completely socially inappropriate, and isn’t that a good reason to then, excuse yourself from any further discourse with said person? I am not angry; I’m just perplexed as to why anyone would want to waste their precious time on such an odd, bizarre, inappropriate and rude specimen as this person. Could you, please, clarify?

Off topic, I do find myself put off by the relentless submissions that state, “I put myself through university, thus I was an attentive student who worked very hard”. Whilst I was fortunate in that I had multiple academic scholarships as well as parental support to supplement the cost of my tuition and housing (for which I was quite grateful) in undergrad, and whilst I was fortunate to have had some funding from my university for my graduate degrees (covering the rest of my tuition for my graduate degrees out of student loans, which my husband and I are now repaying), I worked very hard and graduate undergraduate summa cum laude, and I know many people who had parental financial support, scholarships, etc. who worked just as hard. The presumed notion that only those who have to pay for undergrad themselves work hard, while the rest of us “privileged” ones oafed about, always rubs me the wrong way. Working hard and doing well in school has to do with multiple factors, the most important one being maturity, while one’s financial situation is only a small part of that equation.

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Molly June 20, 2011 at 8:29 am

Well, when one is so self-absorbed, you can hardly expect them to have any social awareness. He was probably trying to date the other girl because it would raise his “esteem” but any wealthy, tall, tanned girl probably doesn’t need to date shorty-with-the-personality-void unless she has other issues. He probably goes through relationships like water and then wonders what is wrong with the women of the world.

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Yvaine June 20, 2011 at 8:37 am

I think I used to work with this guy. ;) He would regale me all through the workday with the tales of his workouts, his gorgeousness, and how so many women were after him but only a few were up to his exacting standards. I imagine he’s married to his mirror by now.

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Just Laura June 20, 2011 at 8:47 am

I hated that he knew that I was a size 8

Since US women’s sizes are largely arbitrary, a “size 8″ or size 2 or size 22 means nothing, and I hate when people place all this emphasis on a meaningless number. My pants run anywhere from a 2 to a 5, depending upon style, brand, etc. It’s what you look like in those clothes, and if you have random guys coming up to you at coffee shops to chat you up, you must look pretty good. :) I think you’re a champ for giving him so many chances.

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Daisy June 20, 2011 at 8:48 am

You gave this guy WAY too much time to audition! He only got a first date with you because he blackmailed you into it. That was a huge red flag and him waving it should have started you for the door.

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Stace June 20, 2011 at 9:01 am

I’m going to write a series of books for children. The first shall be titled, ‘Nobody is entitled to a date’. The second shall be, ‘Nobody is entitled to a second date’. The third shall be, ‘One date is a more than fair chance’. The fourth shall be ‘Backbones = Awesome’. The fifth shall be ‘No: The story of a complete sentence’.

I shall strive to ensure they are on the required reading list, starting at about first grade.

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JennJenn68 June 20, 2011 at 9:10 am

Oh, dear. Sounds like he caught you at an insecure time of your life–that’s the only reason I can think of why you would have given this bozo even five minutes of your time, never mind the hours and hours you seem to have spent. Who cares what type of bimbo he found attractive? I’m, frankly, astounded that he managed to look away from the mirror long enough to even notice anyone outside himself. So he thought that anything over B cup was “gross”? Consider the source–complete vacuum-head. Glad you wised up and found someone worthy of you. Congratulations on your engagement!

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Twik June 20, 2011 at 9:14 am

Bwahahaha! He spends his last date talking about the *other* girl he’s trying to date, and then wonders “what did I do wrong”?

But seriously, anyone who starts off with “you’re lucky to date me, because I’m so gorgeous,” should be moved to the “out” pile immediately. Confidence does not equal bragging – in fact, it’s very often the opposite.

(In a similar vein, I remember the story about old-time world boxing champion John L. Sullivan being rudely treated on a streetcar. Afterwards, his companion wondered why Sullivan, as World Champion, didn’t haul off and slug the offender into next week. He replied, “The World Champion doesn’t have to.”)

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AS June 20, 2011 at 9:26 am

This guy seems like an annoying person. But on the brighter side, you have a nice story to tell.
Hope he reads this site. If not, maybe you should direct him to it. He probably even needs it!

Congrats on being engaged to a wonderful man. Isn’t it amazing how we all learn from people like the “cute guy”?

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Erica June 20, 2011 at 9:37 am

Eye candy is never modest.

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Miss Lady June 20, 2011 at 9:39 am

I guess it makes for “good story,” but for goodness’ sake, why didn’t you say “no” in the first place?

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lkb June 20, 2011 at 9:57 am

Umm, with all due respect to the poster, I wonder about accepting a dinner date with a total stranger in the first place. I think I would have picked up my books and left and find a different place to study. Sadly, this world is not a safe place.

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LovleAnjel June 20, 2011 at 10:05 am

Did he just want an admirer? At first I thought you were being a doormat but halfway through I figured you were seeing him for the entertainment value. That was hilarious to read.

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Xtina June 20, 2011 at 10:06 am

Hahahahahahahahaha!!! This guy is a real piece of work—I guess the “classic” evaluation of this kind of self-aggrandizing behavior is that he’s quite insecure and makes up for it by marketing himself in this over-the-top way. And he also compensates by selecting only what he considers to be physically perfect girls to date. Actually, this reminds me a lot of the movie “Shallow Hal”—did anyone see that? Jack Black plays this jerky guy who will only date beautiful women, and he gets a little voo-doo put on him so he can only see good-hearted women as beautiful no matter what they really look like in real life.

At any rate—I also would not be interested in dating someone so gauche and self-centered. I sure hope that this guys figures out that he’d get a lot further without being insulting to women, and just being himself without all the embellishments.

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Jay June 20, 2011 at 10:22 am

That’s a pretty odd set of dates. Though I can’t say I see why you stayed with him for so long… is the etiquette issue that you thought you needed to keep giving him “a fair chance” when you could’ve just politely told him you weren’t interested any more? (or if you *were* still interested, I guess they weren’t really bad dates after all..?)

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karma June 20, 2011 at 10:23 am

I’d think you were making it up, except that many of us really met guys in college like that. How dudes like that have zero clue is beyond me. The only thing I can figure is that they are trying to compensate for some serious insecurity on their part.
Imagine the poor fools who ended up in a relationship with him. Ew.

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The Elf June 20, 2011 at 10:26 am

There’s a lot of in this, but I have to say that the first was agreeing to go out with him. I think my gut instinct would have been not only “no” but “hell no”. If the only way he’s shush and let me study would be to go out with him, that would be a huge turn-off. I took my studies pretty seriously as a college student and someone using them as a form of extortion would send me right off the deep end.

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The Elf June 20, 2011 at 10:27 am

Ooops! I left off a crucial word! I mean to say “There’s a lot of *strangeness* in this”.

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Library Diva June 20, 2011 at 10:28 am

What a strange, strange man. OP is way more tolerant than I would have been. I’m not 100% sure that this story counts as an etiquette “blunder,” because he was just a walking, talking etiquette blunder who probably would have just gone on about how polite (and smart and handsome and well-off) he was, had a friend or family member ever tried to sit him down and point out why he rarely seemed to get second dates, why every roommate he’d ever had requested a room change midway through the semester, and why no one wanted him on their groupwork team despite his good grades.

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Louise June 20, 2011 at 10:28 am

I suppose his bragging about the other woman was designed to make you jealous?

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Rin June 20, 2011 at 10:38 am

I’m kind of on the fence regarding the weight thing… It seems like a major offending issue for OP, but was the guy really in the wrong here?

I mean, when a guy mentions girl’s weight, not in a negative way, and the girl in question isn’t even overweight, is that automatically an etiquette transgression, just because it’s weight?

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Elizabeth June 20, 2011 at 10:42 am

What a complete wacko! It must have been a bit entertaining to hear what he might come up with next but really, this guy is strange. I’m surprised you invested the time you did. Ick!

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Shea June 20, 2011 at 10:45 am

This sounds like it should be on A Bad Case of the Dates.

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gramma dishes June 20, 2011 at 10:52 am

Strangely, one of my daughters had a few dates with a guy very much like this. He claimed to be 5’8″, but he was actually about 5’3″, the same height as my daughter. He kept emphasizing what great shape he was in and what a ‘hardbody’ he was. At some point he told her he thought she was a little ‘soft’ and really should go on a diet and work out more. She weighed a whopping 110 pounds, much of which was boobs. So yeah, she’s a girl and she’s soft.

At some point they had arrangements to go out and he was a ‘no show’. Called the next day to ‘apologize’ saying he’d just really gotten into practicing with his band and forgot. When he asked her for a makeup date and she politely declined, his words to her “Well, you should reconsider. I think if you think about it you’ll realize that you’re really missing something. Guys like me don’t come along very often.”

Her response. “That’s a relief.”

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Angel June 20, 2011 at 10:57 am

“I mean, when a guy mentions girl’s weight, not in a negative way, and the girl in question isn’t even overweight, is that automatically an etiquette transgression, just because it’s weight?”

Yes, I believe that is automatically a transgression. Weight is a particularly loaded issue, so it should be treated with care. You should not comment on someone’s weight, positive or negative. You really shouldn’t comment on someone’s appearance at all, in most cases.

Anyway, I sympathize with the OP continuing to go out with him. I’ve been on many a strange date that I should have ended, but was too fascinated to see what would happen next.

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Pixie June 20, 2011 at 11:03 am

I think you gave this guy one too many chances. He sounds like a jerk.

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Just trying June 20, 2011 at 11:10 am

A girl has to learn how to say “Buzz off” at some point in her life.

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Ashley June 20, 2011 at 11:11 am

There is a guy I game with who is like that…luckly I don’t know him in real life. Now if I don’t want to talk with him, I just say ” I have to go” and log off…

I understand wanting to give him a fair chance, but I still can’t believe you put up with him as long as you did.

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Just Laura June 20, 2011 at 11:24 am

DGS:
I too worked and attended college full time, and managed to graduate magna cum from a private institution while my dad paid the bill. I agree with you that many, many people assume that those of us who didn’t have to pay for college are somehow lazy and not as wonderful as those people who put themselves into debt for it. However, I didn’t see where the OP was trying to sound like she was better than anyone, or that others simply loafed about. I think she was trying to explain her desperate need to study at this specific time while this guy kept bothering her.

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nannerdoman June 20, 2011 at 11:24 am

I would have promised to go out with him, then broken the promise as having been delivered under duress because it was the only way I could get to study.

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Sarah Jane June 20, 2011 at 11:33 am

OP, I’m guessing you only went out with this guy as many times as you did because he WAS good-looking, and every time you’d agree to go out, it only continued to feed his ego. It’s probably true of every woman he dated, and he never had to develop any real personality or good qualities because his looks got him places, at least for a while. Some men will only adhere to the lowest expectations of behavior that women will tolerate.

I’m glad you realized that you deserve better than this loser and found a quality man. Congratulations on your engagement!

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Becky June 20, 2011 at 11:46 am

Guy was a jerk and demonstrated this at every possible opportunity. Even if you were participating on the grounds of psychological research, you shouldn’t have rewarded his behavior with more attention and dates. Etiquette provides guidelines for everyone playing nicely together; it doesn’t mean going along when you don’t want to, or when it might not be safe. Check out the book The Gift of Fear; the chapter on dating has a lot of good insight on the “women must be nice” idea and how damaging this can be.

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lnelson1218 June 20, 2011 at 12:01 pm

Clueless does sum it up nicely. From the OP’s version nothing from this guy sounds like he was trying to be mean. He just doesn’t have a clue that the world does not revolve around him.

As far as giving him so many chances. In a way I can understand it, you are just fascinated by the cluelessness and can’t stop “watching the train wreck.” So to speak. But good for you when he did finally take his self-absorbion too far and put your foot down. It is a shame that he couldn’t figure out why on his own.

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--Lia June 20, 2011 at 12:44 pm

Stace– Brilliant! Required reading.
Original poster– Yes, there were a lot of red flags, but …
For those coming down hard on the original poster– Some of us need remedial lessons in becoming human beings. We’re not born with the knowledge. The guy could have used some lessons in not being so conceited. The original poster could have used some lessons in knowing when to back out. (There’s always the fake phone number trick.) I understand what it is to let curiosity get in the way of my better judgment. Going out with that guy was like pressing a bruise. You know how it’s going to feel but can’t help yourself. We never know when a lesson learned will do us some good. Perhaps at some point in your career in psychology you’ll have a reason to remember that pompous fellow, and the added insight and experience will make you great at your job.

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Fox June 20, 2011 at 1:15 pm

Rin: Personally, I think so many people (not just women) have issues about their appearances (which usually include weight), it’s a topic I would avoid, at least until I knew the person better and knew he/she was comfortable talking about that. As the OP proves, you can not readily tell how confident or self-conscious someone is on the subject and thus it’s impossible to know how your seemingly innocent comments will affect them. How many times have we heard stories of the guy saying something like “I’m so glad you’re not one of those super skinny girls, I like curvy women” – meant as a compliment – without realizing that the woman in question is recovering from an eating disorder or the like? I mean, Just Laura above left a nice supportive comment for the OP, but I know many women who would just feel worse for having someone so much thinner try to tell them that “size doesn’t matter.” It’s rather like someone living comfortably telling someone who is struggling to make ends meet that “money doesn’t matter.” (And I don’t mean to imply anything negative about Laura; it’s just as likely that she has encountered hurtful comments about her size at some point in her life, as when people make stupid comments like the gentleman in my hypothetical about being “too skinny.” That’s part of the issue – you can’t assume that ANYONE is perfectly happy with their bodies or that nothing you say will hurt them just because you think they are attractive/closer to the “ideal” of Western beauty/whatever.)

It’s pretty commonly acknowledged in our society that women (and some men) go to great lengths to keep things like their exact weight and size secret, so I can understand why OP was mortified at her date “outing” hers. I’ve had a total stranger correctly guess my bra size (including circumference) without invitation (at a Ren Faire – he made armour, including chestplates, and I suppose thought he was showing off?) and I found the encounter extremely uncomfortable. Not only is it revealing what most would consider personal information, but honestly, if a guy is that knowledgeable about women’s bra sizes (and isn’t himself a clothing designer, costumer or the like), AND that willing to “show off” his knowledge, it just comes across as skeazy to me.

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Rattus June 20, 2011 at 1:17 pm

@Rin, yes, mention of a person’s weight is generally rude. You can ask someone you are quite close to if they are losing weight, but that is pretty much it. In fact, discussions of people’s appearance in general beyond “you look lovely tonight” or “pssst, barn door’s open” should be kept to one’s self.

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Mechtilde June 20, 2011 at 1:24 pm

@ Rin- many women are sensitive about their weight- even those who are in the healthy weight range, or even below it. It’s a subject best avoided unless she brings it up herself- this applies to all social situations, not just dating.

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Kirsten June 20, 2011 at 1:47 pm

This guy was an utter creep. He badgered and badgered until he got his way and wouldn’t take no for an answer. That’s so inappropriate, and potentially dangerous.

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Bint June 20, 2011 at 2:38 pm

“I put myself through university and attended full time classes while working. This meant that I had to study whenever I could.”

“Off topic, I do find myself put off by the relentless submissions that state, “I put myself through university, thus I was an attentive student who worked very hard”.

Please, she was explaining why she was so pushed for time at the start. She said nothing whatsoever to suggest this claim. She just said she had to study where she could, because she had to work all the time to put herself through. Given you then go on to say you dislike the assumptions made about you as a student who had their education paid for (as did I, twice), it’s ironic you make a massive assumption about the OP that she has done no more to deserve than you did yours.

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--E June 20, 2011 at 2:39 pm

I’m trying to figure out why this is on E-hell. Obvious reason is “this guy was really rude.” But we also need the follow-up discussion of “and the OP was contributing to it by tolerating it.” (I will hope and assume that the OP, being now older and wiser, wouldn’t fall into the same pattern with another such fellow nowadays.)

This story should have ended with “He promised to be quiet if I would agree to go for dinner with him the next night. I told him only losers need to blackmail girls into dating them, and if he didn’t leave right that minute, I was going to taze him.”

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Leslie Holman-Anderson June 20, 2011 at 2:55 pm

My mind is officially boggled, not only at OP’s story but at the total omission, from any response, of the word ‘stalker.’ Thank goodness he eventually went away.

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Aje June 20, 2011 at 3:22 pm

Now see, I understand completely why the OP kept going out with him. If I had gone out with him, I probably would have said some comments like this, just to set him off….

“Oh, I should have guessed Ireland. People from Ireland usually have really bad teeth.”

(when he flexed) “My, how the fat bulges.”

“are you blind? No? Oh, well your eyes are sort of a milky blue… you look blind.”

Anything that would have set him off, I would have said, in a very polite, chit chat tone (btw, I am Irish, and yes, we do have bad teeth. XD)

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