I was reading an opinion piece in a local weekend paper today and one of the columnists was talking about people falling asleep in public. He raised the interesting question of whether it is OK to wake them and I was wondering what other ehellions think.
We’ve all had someone fall asleep on our shoulder on a plane or bus – I usually don’t stress about it (unless they start dribbling!) until it’s my stop or I need to get out of my seat. I think if someone was asleep on the footpath or on a bench, I’d probably check to see if they were still breathing. Or if someone was obviously vulnerable – think woman, high heels, asleep on train, legs fall apart, bozo with a smartphone sitting opposite her, we’ve all seen the websites called variations of ‘Why it’s important never to fall asleep on public transport’ – or in danger then it would be OK?
We recently had a case in the far north of our state of a young man who fell asleep on a driveway to an office block. Apparently, people walked past him, thinking they’d just leave him be, he’d be fine. And he was fine, right up until someone arriving for work in the early hours of the morning drove into the driveway to access the underground carpark, after which was he not only not fine, but was extremely dead. When we were teenagers, one of my friends fell asleep on the last train home and woke at the end station, which is about 100 kms from home. Not a happy camper, but should someone have woken him?
Where does concern for your fellow human beings end and un-called-for meddling start? What if it’s not welcome? Is there a polite way to do it? Make a loud noise, cough, pretend to sneeze, give them a nudge? Or should we just leave them to it, they’ll be fine? 0402-16
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I will wake anyone who falls asleep on me – I have a very large personal bubble and I don’t tolerate people invading my personal space well, at all. Nobody gets to touch me without my permission, let alone a stranger using me as a headrest. I try & travel outside busy times so I can avoid it, but it’s not always possible.
Otherwise – it’s your own responsibility to get off at the stop you need, no-one else’s. If you’re tired enough to fall asleep, set an alarm to wake you at an appropriate time.
Yes, all of this!
Years ago I was taking the train to New York from central Jersey for work, and I fell asleep on the way in. The very kind man sitting near me (laughingly) woke me up to inform me we’d arrived. I was slightly embarrassed to have been sleeping so deeply I hadn’t noticed the train stopped, but very grateful someone was kind enough to help me out.
I think I’d leave someone be if they were sleeping on a park bench or something, but sleeping in a driveway? I would definitely make sure they were okay, and tell them to move!
I think it’s generally fine to gently and politely wake a person sleeping in public. As you said, often this could be a safety concern, and you would be doing this person a disservice by not waking them–especially since most of the time it’s probably accidental. The exception could be a person who is intentionally sleeping, for example, with their hooded sweatshirt scrunched around their face, leaning on the wall, hands in pockets, etc.
I lived in an area where public transportation was common, and what I’d do if I noticed someone sleeping on the train was nudge them and ask if they were okay. Sleeping on public transportation where you don’t have an obvious end like a plane can be dangerous. Miss your stop, and if it’s the last train you’re stuck.
However, in the case of a loser taping a woman sleeping and trying to see up her skirt, I’d yell at him first because that behavior is just plain unacceptable.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, when I was young and lived in New York City, I used to do the “shoulder nudge” when someone would doze off on my shoulder on the subway, and I needed to get off at the next stop.
I would probably, approach them and make sure they were ok. If I was with my young children, I may approach a proprietor at a neighboring establishment or a police officer to check on them.
I think this requires a case by case assessment.
In most cases, I would allow the sleeper to sleep and assume that as an adult they have some sort of plan in place.
For example: I work full time and take several college courses each semester. This leaves me less time to sleep than I’d prefer. So sometimes on my lunch break I go out to my car, drive it to the back of the lot under some trees, and take a nap. When I do that, I set the alarm on my phone to ensure I’ll get up and back to work on time.
Now I would make exceptions for things like: Someone has fallen asleep in a dangerous place, someone is being taken advantage of in their sleep, someone’s sleep is disturbing an event I paid to attend (for example: the guy next to me in the movie theater has fallen asleep and is loudly snoring in my ear so I can’t hear the dialog of the movie.)
I think we all have to make our best determination in each situation. Is that sleeping guy on the bus asleep or has he slipped into a diabetic coma? Is the sleeping girl on the subway asleep or has she been roofied?
It’s one of those things where I think we have to do our best to balance minding our own business and concern for our fellow human being.
I once had a film somewhat ruined for me by a sleeping, loudly snoring kid near me. That was not what I paid for! But there was really nothing I could do given he was on his mom’s lap. She should have left the theater with him instead of being disruptive.
That’s what ushers are for actually.
I am 40 years old. I have never in my life seen an usher at a movie theater; as far as I know that job was phased out long before my time.
Given I’m only 30 years old and I worked as a theatre usher as a teenager, I would say this is a regional difference!
If there’s no ushers then how do they control who is going into the movies?!
I think the difference is that the “usher” can be any employee at the theater now a days (at least where I’m at. And if it isn’t them, they’ll find a manager or whatever.
Ceallach –
“If there’s no ushers then how do they control who is going into the movies?!”
There is a ticket collector at the entrance to the corridor who tells you which number theater your film is in and which direction to go (if applicable).
Beyond that there are no controls.
The ticket collector cannot leave their station and concession workers have no authority on theater behavior. Leaving the entire area to try to track down a manager could easily take 10, 20, 30 minutes. Movie goers are pretty much stuck with the people in their theater, and their behavior.
This is often cited as a reason people are increasingly staying home to view films. Sure you have to wait a few weeks or months for the release, but at least you have some control of the environment.
If someone was asleep on the ground, such as the young man in the submission, I would probably wake them to see if they are OK, or at least ring the police so they could check on them. Someone falling asleep on driveway of an office park is pretty odd and I’d be concerned that the young man had a medical issue , had too much to drink (alcohol poisoning/passed out) or possibly even be a “body dump”.
I know our society has become a place where you can get verbally assaulted showing basic human kindness/concern, but I would still show it to someone who could be in distress. Better to get shouted at than let a person lie in the streets in need of help.
There is a well-known psychological effect that the more people there are around to witness a situation, the less likely it is that any one person will provide assistance. That may have contributed to people just walking by the young man asleep in the driveway. Everyone feels that someone else will (or should) do something. I think there’s a fair amount of fear nowadays in interacting with strangers (and certainly minors), even if the intentions are good. People are afraid of a violent or unpredictable response even in attempting to provide help. A person who is asleep or passed out in public may be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs. There may also be liability issues for “good Samaritans,” depending on local laws.
I would think the polite way would be to stand not too close and loudly say, “Excuse me,” and ask if the person needs help if they wake up. If they do not immediately awaken and seem to be in danger, the authorities could be called.
One time I found an older man asleep when I entered the sauna at the health club I go to. He was audibly snoring. On the one hand, I didn’t want to disturb him, but on the other hand, too long a stay in a heated environment can be dangerous. Before I needed to decide, someone else came in shortly after I had, and the sound woke the sleeper. Had that not happened, I think I would have said something loudly enough to try to wake him, and if he wanted to be angry with me, then so be it.
The Bystander Effect is regarding emergencies that require immediate action, so it doesn’t really apply in the situation of whether or not to wake a stranger, unless they are in immediate danger.
I think waking a stranger would depend on the situation. If someone fell asleep against me while on a bus I’d wake them, but if they fell asleep against the window I’d leave them be. Perhaps wake them at the next stop to see if they needed to get off.
It also depends on the personality of the person who notices the sleeper. A more extroverted person may be more willing to wake someone. Introverts may be more of a “minding my own business” mindset. Those are sweeping generalizations of extreme ends of a sliding scale, but essentially it would depend on the person and the situation.
Actually, Dominic is referring to “diffusion of responsibility”, which is one of the factors contributing to the bystander effect. Diffusion of responsibility refers to to phenomenon in which a person is less likely to take responsibility for action or inaction when others are present, and can occur in any situation, not just emergencies.
Sort like walking up to a traffic light where 6 people are waiting to cross the street but the Walk light doesn’t come on because everyone assumed that one of the other people had pressed the button.
Thank you for the further information and clarification. I didn’t have time to look it up when I first posted my comment.
I personally think it depends on the situation. Many commuters use the trip into work on train or bus to catch a nap…but they usually also have a sense of when they need to wake up, or have an alert set on their cell phones.
If the person is in a compromising or potentially dangerous situation (woman on train, young man in drive) then yes, they should be woken and advised. Gentle shaking and “Excuse me” said quietly so as not to startle them would be best, and then, “I’m sorry to wake you, but…” Or if the person is bothersome (loud snoring, taking advantage of a free shoulder, which can bother some people).
I used to have a young man fall asleep behind me in Economics class nearly every day, when I went back to college. I woke him when class was over. I figured it was the kind thing to do.
I think I would ask if someone was okay at least if I found them sleeping in public like on a bench, and if they were in a dangerous or embarrassing position, I surely would. And I would wake someone who was on a train or bus who might be missing a stop!
Different places, different rules. When I’m in remote areas that lack cell phone coverage, I usually stop for someone pulled over. You might be the only car they see for a while. It rarely is anything bad, but it’s worth asking, considering how thin the safety net is, in areas like this. You can meet very interesting people this way. I spoke with a Swiss family who were studying a map to figure out the way to Vegas. I’m moderately fluent in German so we had a nice conversation and I let them know that they could get to Vegas that way but it was scenic route (in both senses of the phrase slow and pretty) If memory serves they turned around.
As for people sleeping on my shoulder. If you aren’t family, you are going to be woken up. I’m not a pillow and you leaning on me in a airplane is going to make my back hurt worse. As for how I do it. I’m blunt and tell them.
If it’s a stranger on a train or bus, I’d just let them be… after all, they may be very tired and I have no way of knowing what’s their stop and whether they’ve set an alarm to wake them in time (our railway service has a smartphone app that alerts you a couple of minutes before you reach your destination – which I think is a very nice service indeed). And even if they’d oversleep, the worst that could happen is indeed waking up at the end station. That happened to me once, and apart from my friends and family not letting me hear the end of it, it wasn’t the end of the world.
I would only be worried and check if someone could be in a potentially dangerous situation – someone asleep in a driveway, for instance (I’m quite shocked to read people just walked past the poor guy in your story).
Oh, and by the way: this story reminds me of the time I fell asleep on a bench underneath a cherry tree on Roosevelt Island, on a sunny September day. Sometimes “public naps” are the best naps. 🙂
That’s not an etiquette question so much as a safety question and for that people need to use their best judgement at the time.
Personally I would say that waking someone up depends on two important factors:
1) Their safety
2) Your comfort/safety
The examples of a person, man or woman, vulnerable to harm might be one where you wake them. The guy asleep in the driveway is another. CHECKING on the person asleep on the bench a third. Their safety and well being is the underlying purpose. Meanwhile the friend who fell asleep on the train and woke up 100km away from where he wanted is his own failure. How am I to know, unless he has asked me to wake him, where his stop is?
As to my comfort, no a stranger I may not sleep on my shoulder whether or not they drool. Physical contact is something I’m somewhat split on. I LOVE hugs from my friends. I usually take an opportunity to hug strangers that broadcast free hugs too. Absolutely love ’em. But… if I don’t know you and I didn’t initiate it and you didn’t ask… don’t touch me. Don’t sleep on me either. If I fall asleep on you, by accident I assure you, wake me up please. I accept on public transit (bus, train, plane, etc) that my bubble gets invaded more than I want it to and so I must shrink it but sleeping on my is invading the inner-most bubble. No.
As to how, a polite nudge and “hey” are fair. Loud noises are bad, might trigger a reaction you don’t want.
Sleeping is an activity which should be undertaken in a safe and/or private environment. I don’t think it is at all appropriate to sleep on public transport (unless it’s an aircraft because that situational context is different) and it’s even less appropriate to invade the personal space of a complete stranger by sleeping ON them. It’s not acceptable.
As such, if a person chooses to sleep in a public place, they choose to accept that they may be woken, disturbed or otherwise interacted with by others using the public place. That is the nature of public places – they don’t belong to you, so you can’t expect people to just ‘know’ what to do.
I don’t think anyone is OBLIGATED to check on the welfare of a person sleeping in public – that is, after all, the function of public-space-maintenance workers or law enforcement (perhaps it’s different in the US, but in the UK we have Community Support officers who would be responsible for stuff like this). I think as a philanthropic human being, the decision to check on a person should be up to them – after all, approaching a stranger may be dangerous as you don’t know how that person is going to react.
Personally I’d rather leave it to the Police.
When I was growing up we only had one car, so my Mom would drive my Dad to the bus stop and that was how he got to work. We would go back and pick him up at the end of the day but sometimes we’d see him through the windows of the bus fast asleep and we’d have to race to the next stop and try to signal someone to wake him up. Since he worked for Boeing and there were some fellow commuters they tried to look out for each other but it didn’t always work, so I vote yes for waking people up.
Obviously, if a person chooses to sleep in a location that requires awareness of your surroundings, such as a driveway, then onlookers should try to move that person on or notify the authorities. I’m not sure about someone on public transit, though, as it seems to be more of a personal choice to fall asleep in front of strangers. If you are going to wear skimpy clothes and then sleep in public I’m not sure it’s my responsibility to protect you from others seeing parts of you that you chose to put on public display. But I certainly would not let a stranger lean on me, sleeping or otherwise. And it is always a good policy to try to determine if a sleeping stranger is okay, if possible, or if they are unconscious because of a medical condition.
“If you are going to wear skimpy clothes and then sleep in public I’m not sure it’s my responsibility to protect you from others seeing parts of you that you chose to put on public display.”
…wow. Really? Just because her skirt is shorter than normal doesn’t mean that she wishes people to see her private parts (or, even worse, to have them be photographed). Be a decent person and people up in situations like that, no matter how judgmental you might be, yeah? Since you’ve said you would wake other people up in less “skimpy” of clothing.
You go Althenia! Glad to see someone standing up for women here!!
I’m with you, Altheia. I’m pretty sure that a sleeping person who is wearing a short skirt doesn’t want to have their picture taken without their permission any more than a sleeping person who enjoys nice accessories would want someone to take their briefcase without their permission. It doesn’t matter whether they have “put [something] on display.”
THANK YOU Aletheia and everyone who replied to her.
“If you are going to wear skimpy clothes and then sleep in public I’m not sure it’s my responsibility to protect you from others seeing parts of you that you chose to put on public display”
Not cool. Don’t be so judgey that you’ll let someone be victimized.
I think that’s overly harsh. I feel that your attitude of victim blaming is not appropriate at all. Plus, you don’t necessarily need to wear skimpy clothing for bits to accidentally go on display. A perfectly professional knee length skirt can ride up, for example. A smart white button up shirt might pop a button in the cleavage area. If the person is conscious, they can then confront people who are trying to exploit them by taking unwanted pictures.
A knee length skirt will not show private parts. A lack of underwear will. If a person goes out without underwear then how is that my business? That is their choice and I’ll let them have it. If a woman – a grown, adult woman – chooses to go out wearing clothes that could have malfunctions and/or are revealing, and then chooses to sleep in public, that is not my concern. That falls under the category of her choice, her consequences. If she is in physical danger then it is my responsibility to do something about it. But, as a woman, I want to be treated as an adult, and so I will treat other adults as adults, not as children that I must protect from their own decisions. Unless there is potential for physical harm I won’t butt into what is not my business.
Considering some people who are not able to make the best decisions regarding these things, I think it falls upon the shoulders of decent people to protect them from those who would choose to exploit them. I don’t care, it takes me two moments to call out a creep who is doing something utterly despicable. I don’t care if the woman is wearing a short skirt with no underwear, a long skirt with no underwear, is wearing underwear….it doesn’t matter. The person violating her is the one in the wrong…NOT the victim.
Wow. So a woman with no underwear, asleep in public, in a short skirt, gets what she deserves? Because there is no way she is a sexual assault victim that has been drugged, stripped, and left? Or is a diabetic that wet herself, took off her sodden panties, and then slumped into a coma? Or is a woman that made a decision you don’t agree with in regards to her clothing, then fell asleep in public place, and therefore deserves to be humiliated because bed, made, lie?
Not to mention, no one said no underwear in our hypothetical situation. Do you think a pair of panties protects you from an upskirter? Or does it depend on the color of the panties? Red/black panties= she should suffer the consequences of her actions, white or pink panties means she deserves to be woken or checked on, all other colors imply consent to the pictures?
And as I have had my longer than knee length skirt blow up over my waist on my way down the escolater to the subway, I guess I get what I deserve if I’m targeted by a jerk with a camera. Should have sewn weights into the hem, so these are the consequences I face for not doing so. Don’t worry, it’s not your responsibility to help me if you had been standing right next to me when the wind blew my skirt up. I should have known better.
You could prevent her victimization, or at least wake her and give her guidance you obviously think she needs regarding her personal choices and safety. Instead, you have given yourself an excuse so that you need feel no responsibility for a fellow human being.
Good for you. Hope you never need help from another human being that decides your personal choices let them off the hook from giving you assistance you need when you are helpless. After all, it’s not their business.
Well, if the gender was reversed, if it was a guy sitting there, wearing his crotch down to his knees because he likes that fashion, and his underwear has slipped, too, because he wants to wear it low, and his overly baggy shirt has shifted to reveal a bit of flesh between the bottom of the shirt and the top of his shorts, and young girls are sitting there, giggling and taking out their phone, would he also be a victim of assault? He’s in a public place, dressed as revealingly as he wishes, and people are seeing what he’s displaying. Like the People of Walmart. Are they all assault victims, too? Because someone is taking their picture (they’re not even in public, as the store is a private business) and others are looking at those pics online. Or is it just that you don’t like it when it’s a woman who’s exposing herself, willingly, and you feel you have to protect her from her choices? That’s infantilizing women and I don’t want it done to me and I won’t do it to anyone else. Looking at what is displayed in public is not assault. Taking pictures of what’s on display in public is not assault. Tasteless, yes, but there is no Manners Police in our society, at least not yet.
Adults get to decide what they wear. They also then get to own what happens after. That’s what I taught my kids; dress for the attention you want to get. You don’t like the attention? Then dress differently. That’s the part a person can control about themselves, 100%. So I let other adults make those decisions for themselves and I don’t interfere, even if it’s not my taste.
People take pictures all the time of drug dealers, johns, prostitutes, in the hope of shaming them. Is that assault now, too?
Someone did say “no underwear”. That was me, in my second post. That’s the scenario I referred to, because if a person is wearing skimpy clothes but has underwear on there is nothing to see, even if the skirt has ridden up or pants have fallen. I have no idea what everyone else is referring to when stating a problem with what I said, because everything seems to have devolved into arguments about sexual assault, life and death medical conditions, shoving slow people, and so on, all, somehow, attributed to my words. Except I never said those things. But that doesn’t seem to stop people from fabricating words from my mouth. I am only left to wonder at the power of imagination in some people.
@Dee
1) You are deliberately misconstruing what @Pillbug said. He was stating that if you found a woman in a short skirt, with no underwear, passed out on a subway with her legs spread – it may not be her bad choices that left her there like that. She could be roofed and been left like that after she was raped. The rape is what would make her a victim of sexual assault, not the pictures. The pictures would just be the awful icing on the cake to that terrible scenario.
2) If a man fell asleep and his pants slipped in a way to show his junk and then two giggling young women start taking pictures – a decent person would put a stop to that as well. Because he hasn’t asked to have his junk uploaded all over the internet due to a wardrobe malfunction. I would consider him just as much as victim as a woman who fell asleep and had her legs fall open so the guy across the way started taking pictures of her panties.
3) Considering there are entire internet forums dedicated to up-skirt pictures and videos – a woman is more likely to fall prey to this behavior. I don’t thing the sleeping woman on the train was “asking for it” any more than some woman who was caught on a pervert’s “shoe-cam” or a hidden bathroom camera etc…
4) Telling some jerk on a bus or train to stop taking pictures of a sleeping woman’s underwear isn’t “infantilizing women”. It’s looking out for your fellow human being and just part of following the whole Golden Rule thing.
@Dee
Actually, I do find the “People of Walmart” thing a form of harassment. I don’t see why celebrities, much less private citizens, should be photographed without their permission while going about their daily lives. I do not want my picture being placed online for wearing PJs and crazy hair when I am trying to get foods on the BRATTY/Convalescent’s diet for my family after a bad flu and some meds so that they can feel better/sleep. I certainly hate their ableist crap, following people who are on ECVs and attempting to “prove” that they don’t “need” the carts. And I certainly do not see why it is anyone’s responsibility to shame someone for their clothing choice.
As someone who is a decent human being, I think that if someone is having an obvious wardrobe malfunction, or is getting their picture taken, regardless of if it is a man or a woman, stepping in is necessary. If I am wrong and they get mad about it, oh well, but at least I didn’t turn my head as someone is being victimized. And sorry Dee, NO ONE deserves to get victimized. Only a sick creep would think that.
Still not cool.
You know why creepy assholes do things like take upskirt shots? Because people think “it’s not their concern” if someone suffers the “natural consequences” of their decision.
You aren’t just not-stopping someone from being a creep. The creep is counting on your non-interference. And when you don’t interfere, the creep thinks that you approve of their actions.
So you want to be treated as an adult and want to treat others like adults. That’s not mutually exclusive with leaving someone in a vulnerable state. Quite the opposite in fact.
My imagination troubles you? Because your imagination, which allows you to walk away from another human being in a vulnerable state, because you think they deserve what happens to them because they somehow asked for it troubles a lot of people.
I didn’t put words into your mouth. You said a woman asleep in public in a short skirt with no underwear absolves you from doing anything to prevent someone from taking pictures of her that she obviously can’t consent to. Your second post now says she is ‘willingly’ exposing herself. I thought she was asleep?
I pointed out some scenarios that demonstrate the woman may not have made the decision to expose herself and fall asleep in public. I’m sorry your imagination can only stretch far enough to imagine a woman in a short skirt with no underwear asleep in public who must have decided to do so, which you think lets you off the hook in regards to caring about your fellow humans. It’s a shame that it can’t stretch far enough to wonder if, regardless of her perceived personal choices, if your action or inaction could prevent harm to her.
And yes, maybe some examples put forth seem dramatic to you. But your example takes for granted that the hypothetical woman could not possibly done anything but decide to wear a short skirt, sans undies, and then fall asleep in public, exposing herself for attention. I pointed out that may not be the case, and that even if it was, she is still the victim of a crime if someone takes pictures of her genitals without her consent. And yes, that’s considered assault by law in several states.
As for the People of Walmart, are they concious? I hate that website, I think it’s mean spirited and nasty. But no nudity or faces are shown (to my knowledge, I don’t visit that site. Facebook unfortunately showed it to me before I could block those types of links.) They may not specifically consent to the photos, but they are awake and aware that they are being filmed at least on the store cameras.
Your gender reversal is strange. Is the young man awake? I assume so, since we are specifically discussing people asleep in public on this thread, not supposed fashion victims. Are you saying he has exposed his privates by wearing low slung pants? And that young girls are taking photos? Then, yeah, I would intervene. Because if he didn’t mean to expose himself to young girls he should cover himself, and would be grateful for the heads up, because that situation is just as dangerous to him as a woman. And yes, the pictures would constitute assault, at least in my state. If he meant to show his genitals in public, I would say something to him and the police. See how that works? Gender equality for accidental genital exposure. No one is infantalized.
Your point of view is that men in low slung pants or women in skimpy clothes with no panties get what they deserve, and it’s not your problem. Apparently in your world nothing happens by accident in regards to clothing, and we should all be judged by what we are wearing according to the standard of decency. Whose standard? I guess yours.
My point of view is that people in a vulnerable state that are exposed to harm by whatever circumstance deserve some compassion and effort to ensure their safety.
I never said you said slow people should be shoved. I asked if your logic extended to slow people who should keep up or expect to get shoved out of the way. So I guess now we both know what it’s like to have other people ‘fabricating words from my mouth.’
Taking a picture of a drug dealer, john, or prostitute in a public place while they are concious and committing a crime? Not assault, actually evidence of a crime that should be turned over to the police. See, you came up with dramatic examples too. Except yours have nothing to do with people who fall asleep in public. Again, the topic of this thread. And in this century prostitutes are correctly referred to as sex trafficking victims. More and more laws are being changed to acknowledge that sex trafficking victims are exactly that, but that is a whole other topic, not appropriate to this thread.
See, I think that if a person (of either gender) walks down the street naked, it’s a poor choice. It’s probably against the law. I’m not happy about it, nor would I take a picture. I would call the police and offer them whatever clothing/covering I may have to cover themselves. I would yell at anyone trying to take a picture of them, because they appear to be in a vulnerable state. I would not walk away, thinking it wasn’t my problem. Because I don’t want a random naked person in my neighborhood, and my first thought is that something is wrong and they need help.
And even if they refused my help, and were purposefully walking around naked I would not stand by and allow them to be assaulted by a criminal. If they state that others can take pictures, that’s their decision. I would still call the police, because walking around naked in public is against the law.
You mention you have taught your kids to dress for the attention they want, and if they don’t like the attention they get, they should change the way they dress. So if some other kid punches your kid because of the color they are wearing, do you tell them not to wear that color anymore or they can expect to get punched again? Or do you tell them to wear what they want, because other people don’t get to dictate their clothing choices with threats and violence, and then take steps to address that violence with the other child and their parents?
I’ll close with this example. Years ago, while shopping at the mall I noticed a woman in an extremely skimpy skirt. As I glanced over at her, she was telling two men that she wanted them to leave her alone. They left, after calling her several names that included ‘whore’ and ‘tease’. I had started to walk over, because it was obvious they had been following and harassing her, and I thought my presence might help convince them to back off (this was pre-cell phone days, calling police or security wasn’t an immediate option.) She was shaken and upset, but unharmed. As I closed the distance, I noticed she was wearing an unusual belt, it almost looked like the doubled up cloth tube belts that were popular when I was a teenager. I realized that she wasn’t wearing a skimpy skirt, she was wearing a slip, and somehow her actual skirt had ridden up around her waist. I closed the distance, asked if she was ok, and then pointed out her skirt issue. She was horrified. She felt sure that she had walked around the mall for several minutes exposing herself by accident. She was humiliated thinking of how many people had the chance to tell her about her skirt, but instead chose to do nothing.
Her skirt, when pulled down, was modestly covering her knees. I suppose she’s lucky I was there, and not you. You wouldn’t have bothered because she was an adult who decided what to wear, so she was getting what she deserved. I saw a person who was upset and who may have needed help, so I did what I could. She wasn’t even asleep, or in danger. And I didn’t have to use my imagination to decide it was the right thing to do.
Oh, and I can’t count the number of times I have said ‘XYZ’ to men with unzipped pants. And I can’t remember a single one being ungrateful for the information because he chose to leave his pants open on purpose for attention. Just in case you were worried about gender equality again.
Well said, Ellex.
A knee length skirt that rides up will show underwear and/or private parts. Some people go commando because it’s actually healthier for the vagina than wearing artificial fibres (decreases chances of thrush etc). For all you know, she didn’t have time to do laundry, so instead of wearing dirty underwear, chose to go without that day. Or her period arrived early and she had to get rid of the undies. Or experienced some kind of bodily function leakage that again, resulted in her not wearing underwear. I don’t know about you, but I would rather throw the underwear away than wear something significantly soiled for the rest of the day.
But what do you classify as underwear? Because a thong is underwear, but leaves little to the imagination. A lacy thong even less so. And underwear can ride up or slip to the side, showing more than you’re willing to show, and I don’t know many people who are willing to adjust their underwear in public.
Plus, your attitude is all about “choice”. Sometimes falling asleep in public isn’t a choice. Sleeping disorders, fatigue, stress, low blood sugar, medical issues etc can all result in people nodding off in strange areas. How do they have a choice in that? Is it really up to you to assume that they chose to put their fate and safety into the hands of strangers?
Furthermore, taking questionable pictures of an unconscious stranger’s crotch/chest area is, as far as I know, considered sexual assault in many areas.
Any clothing can have malfunctions. You could wear a long sleeve full length maxi dress, and have it blown up by the wind. Or the skirt accidentally caught in your underwear. Trousers can tear. Modest skirts can ride up. Shirt buttons pop open. So your argument there is rendered void, because we’ve ALL had some clothing that has had a minor malfunction that resulted in a body part being exposed.
From your replies, physical harm is the only thing you’re concerned with. What about psychological harm? The potential for stalking? Job loss because her boss came across those pictures? Shaming from friends and family?
It’s people with attitudes like yours that allow other people to upload pictures to people of walmart (a cesspool of a site). Nobody stands up and says “hey, taking pictures of that guy in the Pokemon onesie is not cool. He’s a person, not a sideshow act”. They’re not being physically assaulted, just humiliated and made fun of. No lasting harm in that right?
Again, your victim blaming attitude is alarming, and I hope that one day you’ll be able to reconsider that stance.
I’m appalled at your reasoning for allowing another person to be victimized. You’ve decided there are circumstances in which you would allow, or not interfere with, an assault on a sleeping person. It sounds like you believe other people deserve to be punished by a criminal for dressing in a manner you disagree with.
You are no better than the hypothetical upskirter. How many other situations are you willing to declare not your responsibility? Does their appearance mean they deserve to be harassed? Does being slow mean they deserve to be shoved out of they way? Does being lost mean they deserve to be mugged? All of these things could be prevented, I suppose. Just dress like everyone else (whatever that means), keep up with everyone else at all times, and always know where you are. Then people will help you because you deserve to be helped. Unless they have another small minded reason to absolve themselves of responsibility, because they are more interested in blaming the victim for the crime. That way they can feel morally superior while proving themselves morally bankrupt.
I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, and that goes hand and hand with my belief in community. It is my job to care for myself, and those around me as best I can. No matter how they are dressed, or whatever *ull$@&! reason comes to mind. The only exception in my mind is personal safety, but even then there are options in every situation.
Wow! Pillbug, you sure leap to conclusions, don’t you? I said I wouldn’t try to stop an adult from making their own choices if that choice is not going to endanger themselves. I never said or even hinted that I would allow someone to be assaulted if I could prevent it. In the scenario the OP proposed it was a woman, wearing skimpy clothing, being seen by others. What is displayed in public is public domain, nothing more and nothing less. It’s not assault. But don’t let logic get in the way of all that leaping. I’d hate to put a damper on wild speculation with no basis in fact.
Taking pictures of an unconscious person’s genitals is considered assault in many states. As is up skirting. I apologize that my post did not clearly state the assault I referred to was that of someone taking pictures of a sleeping woman’s genitals in a public place.
I still don’t understand how you think that a sleeping woman could make the choice to expose herself in public. She can’t make the choice to do so, she’s asleep. You make the point as if she planned to fall asleep and expose herself, I am making the point that you have know way of knowing what happened. All you are seeing in this hypothetical is the end result of a sleeping woman whose clothes have ridden up and deciding she must have done it on purpose.
Okay, Pillbug, you win. A person who dresses in such a way that they will inevitably expose themselves with little movement needs to be rescued from themselves. They do not have the right to choose what they wear or how it fits on them and what happens after that. You go on telling strangers that their choices are causing trouble and I will leave them to live their choices and only intervene if it appears they want help or are in danger. That sums it up for me.
Thank you to Pillbug and the others who are fighting this good fight. I am horrified (but not surprised) by people who, without any real knowledge of a situation, judge others as worthy or unworthy of simple human kindness. How wonderful it must be to know without a doubt who is deserving and who is not! Dee, do as you please. The rest of us mere mortals will continue to err on the side of caution. We’d probably even help you.
@Dee, you are confusing assault with battery. Assault has nothing to do with hitting/injuring a person. Assault is the threat to injure another person. BATTERY is the injuring/harming of the other person
Sexual assault: catcalling, upskirt pictures, verbal and obsene hand gestures, etc.
Sexual battery: touching, slapping, grabbing, etc, etc.
Nothing like some victim blaming to start your day…
Throwing my two cents in agreement with the posters who disagree with women who dress scantily somehow “deserve” to get raped or assulted.
There are (sadly) many news stories of elderly women getting raped.
Are they wearing a sexy, low cut muu muu?
I have had many a discussion over the years with my husband after saying things like “who would want to rape a 90 year old woman?!?”
Rape is about power, not the sexual act itself.
But taking pictures of someone exposing him/herself is not rape. It is legal to take pictures of a person in public as long as how you are taking pictures is not intrusive. As you pointed out, rape has nothing to do with how a person looks or dresses. It has very little to do with sex. But guys do like to see naked bodies and have a propensity of taking pics of themselves, their girlfriends, boyfriends, etc., in stages of undress. It’s a guy thing. Show some skin to a male stranger and there’s every chance he will look and/or take a pic. It’s dumb and immature but it is not assault.
It is assault if the victim is not conscious or able to say “here, take a pic of my cleavage!”. It’s the same difference between a guy having sex with a conscious, sober woman, and a guy having sex with a woman who is passed out.
But you are deliberately being obtuse, so please, find another a site to troll. If you’re that keen for attention, I suggest reddit.
@Dee: I agree with you it’s not rape or assault, to take a photo like in the original story, and young men are apt to want to capture the moment to share with pals.
I will say, in my opinion, while the girl was not “asking for it”, it was incredibly stupid of her to not wear underwear.
I guess it’s a fine line/double edge sword.
I would say someone taking pictures of another’s genitals without permission is very much intrusive. But I assume you have some wacky definition of intrusive that I have never heard before.
What about the infamous photo of Hillary Duff exiting a limo in such a way as to reveal to the paparazzi that she had no underwear on and they gleefully snapped away?
Admin, not sure if your comment is directed to me, if you are asking what I would do under those circumstances, or if you are asking how those photographers weren’t charged with a crime, but here’s my 2 cents:
There are several instances of famous women captured on film exiting limos with no underwear. They knew they were going to be in that situation, and they are typically surrounded by at least a few people who also know the situation. They are definitely awake, though some may be under the influence. They are almost certainly in no physical danger, and will walk away with no harm coming to them but embarrassment. If I were in the limo with them, I would totally point it out to them (assuming I was aware) just like I would tell someone they were dragging toilet paper behind them or had something in their teeth. But if they want to flash the photographers, it’s obviously up to them.
As paparazzi are classified as press, and the women have given implied consent to have their photo taken by being at the event, it is my understanding that does not fall under the legal definition of assault I referenced earlier. I am not familiar with the exact circumstance you are referencing, so I am obviously being very general.
The intent of the photographer can also be used as a circumstance to inform authorities whether or not a criminal act occurred. If one photographer had a phone on a selfie stick on the ground as women exited cars and was taking photos only while the camera had a chance of getting an upskirt shot, that could be actionable. Several photographers getting the same shot of a clothing mishap among several hundred photos of a similar composition (people exiting cars at the event) has no criminal intent.
Hope that answers your question.
If I fell asleep in public I would hope that someone would wake me up as soon as they saw me and were safely able to.
I’m a commuter. My travel time (home to work and vice versa) is 40 minutes. Because I see the same people day after day (same train, same car), I know who gets off at what stop. I will typically check to make sure the people I know get off at my stop, are up and ready to go as we approach the station. I’ve actually woken up a couple people who would have slept right through and they were very appreciative (even one where the train had reached the end of the line). Both times I did it, I was as gentle as possible (tap on the shoulder), hoping not to startle them. There have also been situations on the train where someone is snoring, embarrassingly loud. In this case people usually try to make a loud noise in an attempt to rouse them.
I am one of those people who can fall asleep just about anywhere. Especially on a moving vehicle. However I would hope someone would touch my shoulder to rouse me if either the train was obviously nearing the end of the route or if there was some concern for safety. It’s really up to me to not conk out though. I try to do activities that keep me alert like reading articles, talking to my travel companion, playing games in my head about what I see around me, making lists in my head. I take medication that can make me incredibly drowsy. Because of this I don’t do the driving on long car rides.
I once fell asleep on a patch of grass while reading when I was 15 in front of my mom’s work. The next thing I knew a police officer was nudging me with his foot. Someone was concerned that I had passed out (I was against a tree in the shade) and called the police. I had been sitting there reading a book waiting for my mom so I could go home. I was mortified. Mom came running outside when she saw the officer and explained that she ran that branch and I was waiting for her. We live in a pretty country area so it was quite unlikely I was homeless. And we don’t have public transportation for the most part. He told her someone had been watching me and saw me nod off and called the police.
How do u know when to wake them? What if they have an alarm set to erupt just before their stop and now you’ve interrupted their nap? I wouldn’t want to chance waking someone up early and having be grumpy.
I’m a napper. I’ve got a condition that makes me chronically fatigued. But I know this about me and I know to set alarms and such so that I don’t miss something important (ie my stop on the train/bus). I would be extremely grumpy if someone took it upon themselves to wake me during my few precious minutes of shut eye b
I really don’t know about someone falling asleep on a train, bus or even a storemall bench. However, if someone is lying down on the ground or in a dangerous place, I definitly talk to them. I stay away just enough to not get hit by a flying arm, but close enough I can be heard. I ask if they are OK and if they need help. No reply after a few “Sir/Ma’am” gets a 911 call.
It doesn’t take much personal control to stay awake in public. The only time I’ve ever slept in public was on a 3+ hour bus ride where I was getting off at the last stop. I’d already been awake for over 24 hours, but due to the jostling of the bus, I woke up every few minutes, anyway.
If I see someone asleep in public, I have to assume it was a choice they made and it’s not my place to interfere. The only exception I can think of is if this person was asleep when I got on, still asleep when I’m about to get off after a lengthy ride, AND it’s late (last train, etc), I MIGHT wake them to ask what their stop is, but probably not. It’s not my business. Falling asleep in public for longer than a couple minutes is a definite choice.
Some people have medical conditions that can make it very hard to start awake in certain settings.
You don’t know what’s going on in someone else’s life. Someone might have a full time job, kids, and been visiting an elderly relative in hospital. Or been working double shifts to pay for luxuries like food and rent. Or be badly jet-lagged. Or had broken sleep the last three nights straight for all sorts of reasons. I recall once going hiking and the first night our tent blew away in the middle of the night and the second a couple of possums had a noisy fight right outside it. Put that on top of two tough physical days, and I was falling asleep in public whenever I stopped moving.
And that you could go without sleep for 24 hours then wake up every three minutes due to the jostling of a bus implies to me that you’re a light sleeper anyway. If I’m tired enough to fall asleep on a bus I’ll keep sleeping through jostling.
I take medication that makes me very drowsy, and have also travelled whilst exhausted, and whilst exhausted AND medicated.
The responsibility for making sure I get off at the right stop remains mine. I set alarms if I think there’s any chance I might fall asleep and miss my stop. I learnt that lesson the hard way by falling asleep on the last train out of London and waking up 100 miles from my stop at gone midnight. Twice, in the same week ? Medication or health conditions don’t absolve you of taking steps to make sure you get off where you need to.
People fall asleep on public transit all the time around here, so it hardly registers anymore. Absent exigent circumstances that actually put them in danger/at risk, I wouldn’t bother them. Most are tired commuters, or the homeless who may have no other place to catch a nap. If police / security patrols want to wake them, that’s their business. Also, frankly, if it’s just me and three sleeping homeless guys on the train car (recent experience), I’m not going to risk any of them getting annoyed and violent if I bother them in any way. (The cops who got on at the next stop didn’t bother them either.)
For something like the guy asleep on a public road, I’d call 911 because it’s such an odd place to “fall asleep” that I’d suspect some medical issue was going on. Was he drunk? High? Had a heart attack? Someone knocked him out? I’d probably wait around for the cops to show up, but would again exercise caution for my own safety and not approach him, unless it was obvious he was in medical distress.
But given that when I was a tired commuter, I learned how to precisely time my naps to wake and get off the train at my stop, I wouldn’t bug anyone who didn’t appear to be in danger.
Once, in college, when I was really sick, I left my room about 10 pm so my roommate could sleep undisturbed by my constant coughing. My plan was to go out to the lounge area on my floor for an hour or so until I got sleepy enough I thought I could fall asleep instantly when I returned to our room. A few other college students were playing some kind of game and I spread out on the couch to watch them (and cough far enough away not to infect them.) The next thing I knew a young woman was waking me up. She told me the group was leaving for the night and she didn’t want me sleeping as it wasn’t safe for me to be there alone at night. She was absolutely right and I’ve often thought her kindness may have prevented something awful from happening.
I think its a judgement call ,if you think someone is in trouble/danger wake them or alert the authorities.
If someone’s asleep on a road or driveway, or outside in dangerous weather, wake them! If a woman is asleep and a man is taking up-skirt shots, tell him to stop and/or call the police/conductor etc. If someone’s asleep in a safe-ish public place, maybe wake them up to check they’re not in a diabetic coma or something, but if you’re on a bus or a train and you saw them fall asleep, don’t worry about it.
Don’t just tell him to stop. He’s counting on you being too polite to point him out to others who will do something as well.
If an upskirter is taking pictures, holler at them. Make a scene. Let others know what they’re doing. Essentially be rude enough to call attention to their inappropriate behavior. Now it’s not one person who knows, but a whole lot and there’s safety in numbers.
First aid training has taught me to err on the side of caution. The person may have experienced a simple partial seizure (I have a family member who experiences these, in public they may be nearly unnoticeable but the person always falls asleep afterwards) or they could even be experiencing a stroke. Perhaps they were, in fact, just overtired and nodded off, but wouldn’t you rather be safe than sorry? Another way to look at it – If you fell asleep in public, would you really want people to just leave you there?
I will add that on a long bus, train, or plane ride, the etiquette may be different, but not being well-traveled myself I can’t speak to that…
This very thing happened to me at church long ago. Before Mass started, the gentleman sitting next to me (whom I didn’t know but I vaguely knew his parents seated at the other end of the pew), suddenly put his head on my shoulder. At first I just kind of chucked awkwardly and tried to gently nudge him but he seemed to fall more deeply asleep. I somehow managed to catch his mother’s eye and the family helped get him the help he needed. Apparently he did have some sort of seizure disorder and this was a fairly routine occurrence — enough so the mother was able to chuckle a bit at my confusion.
If someone is in a precarious situation as in sleeping on railroad tracks or in a driveway, I think I would wake them or, if he/she seems to be intoxicated, call the police so the person can be removed to safety
On public transport, I would be cautious. Some people might not appreciate it. The Homeless sometimes sleep on underground trains on in bus stations.
I think safety is the first concern-both the sleeper’s and mine.
I’m guessing it’s case by case. If it doesn’t affect you and you haven’t reason to suppose they need assistance, it falls under the heading of “I’m entitled to my opinion as to the safety/ advisability of this decision BUT it’s none of my business”. Especially when the scenarios are so potentially varied, it’s best not to assume that waking them is desired. Now… in the driveway or in the road? Yes, you are going to get a verbal “are you okay?” and a welfare check from the nearest police officer/ fireman/ park ranger that I can contact. If you aren’t visibly breathing…. well, I MEANT well when I checked for a pulse, called for help and considered how up to date my CPR skills are… and we are likely to find out in a moment or two here… Oh, who am I kidding, I tell kids to get out of the road and generally “help” if it looks necessary. Sometimes it isn’t. Here’s hoping only the needy are helped and those seeking peace and solitude aren’t disturbed!
My husband once fell asleep while we were attending a conference. I was not sitting near him, as he was down at the front so he could introduce the speakers. I could hear him snoring; I wish someone had woken him as the mental kicking I was giving him was clearly not working. His excuse was that it was warm, and dark – and the speaker was very dull.
Asleep on public transport, if they fall over onto me, I wake them up. If they would be where they could be hurt, like the fellow in the driveway, I’d be nudging a foot with my foot and speaking to them to rouse them. If that didn’t work, I’d call authorities.
There was a fellow overseas, took a flight. He fell asleep and didn’t wake up at landing and nobody noticed he was still in seat. Plane reloaded and went back and he woke up at the second landing. Yes he was upset, and he had to buy another ticket to get to where he wanted to go (the airline didn’t charge him for the flight back to his origination point)
It should be a case by case situation taking your own safety into account first, then the other person. (Yours in case you could get assaulted or mugged, then theirs if it could be life threatening)
I used to work 12 hour night shifts a 90 minute bus ride (with one transfer) there and back home. Except on Sundays, when the bus got me home 4 hours after my shift ended and I had to catch a bus 3 hours before my shift started to get back there that evening.
I always slept on the bus. Luckily, because of the starting and ending times I could always find an empty window seat and sleep against the bus wall. On those rare occasions where there were no window seats I learned how to sleep sitting straight up.
I used to commute via bus, then subway first stop to last stop. My commute was over an hour each way. My work day was 8.5 hours. I then attended college at night, 45 minutes away (from home, opposite direction from work). I also had a part time job on weekends. I regularly napped on the subway because my life was exhausting. I carried a large bag which i would hug and lay my head on.
95% of the time, the jostling of the last stop (a very popular stop on both ends of my commute) would wake me. But i certainly always appreciated when someone would gently wake me if I didn’t wake on my own. I often woke others with a gentle tap and the words “last stop”.
I would not wake people in most other scenarios though. I might call 911 or alert an officer if I saw one, but there are just too many variables.
Since I have a cell phone with me when I’m out, I’d set the alarm for 2 minutes ahead and then just let it ring…
If I could do it unobtrusively I’d put the phone away and look around when it rang…and then discover it was mine and apologize.
I came to cell phone use late and don’t use it for casual chatter but it can be useful for other things.
If the person awoke and seemed disoriented, I’d apologise (pretend it was a missed phone call or wrong number) and then ask if the person was ok…
Add to reasons to be concerned: a diabetic possibly going into a coma or someone suffering from low blood sugar which can make the blood pressure drop and the person falling asleep.
As someone who has narcolepsy, I have fallen asleep in public places because I have no ability to control it. At work, my immediate co-workers are aware of the fact that I might appear to be “sleeping” on the job, but they also know to leave me alone as this doesn’t happen often and I usually am only out for a few minutes. I tend to let people sleeping in public sleep. I only have approached a few people over the years due to safety concerns.
And then there’s the story of the man who ended up sitting next to Cindy Crawford on an airplane. She fell asleep and her head lolled onto his shoulder. The poor fellow stayed as still as he could for the rest of the flight to avoid waking her.
I would never allow a stranger to fall asleep on me. That is way too much close contact from a stranger. I don’t know about waking up a skeeping stranger I would feel weird given that I don’t know the person. And maybe they know what they’re doing and have an alarm set on their phone to wake them up. It’s not okay to fall asleep at work or at school, unless you’re on a break. If you can’t stay awake during class or while doing your job, then you need to go home. And no college professor I ever had allowed students to sleep during class. I know the libraries in my town don’t allow patrons to fall asleep there.
I agree this is a case by case issue. Safety trumps etiquette in some cases. Once we were on vacation at the beach. While having a cocktail at a local bar, right on the ocean, I noticed a young man who was asleep on the sand. His shirt was under his head, and he was wearing nothing but swim trunks. His skin was pale, and it was 1130am (time change and vacation = not day drinking, it was early evening for us and we would shortly have lunch (dinner) and head to the hotel for a full nights sleep). After 20 minutes I spoke to the bartender serving us, concerned that he appeared to be alone, he hadn’t moved and it was getting sunnier and hotter by the minute.
She shrugged and said the man had been there not moving since the bar opened at 10am. My husband attempted to wake him, and came back to tell me that the man stank of rum and was insensible. I pushed the bartender to call emergency. I had to resort to calling 911 myself. By this point a family nearby on the beach had covered the (by now) increasingly sunburned young man at the insistence of their child. Before the police arrived, a group of 50-60ish older women appeared to be checking on the young man, but it turned out they were trying to prop him up for a group selfie.
So out of dozens of people nearby, my husband and I were worried enough to call for help, and a child threatened a tantrum unless her parents covered him (we heard wails about why did she have to have sunscreen all over, when he didn’t have any, and what if he got burned?). By the time the cops arrived they were unable to rouse him even after one ground his knuckles into the man’s breastbone. An ambulance arrived shortly thereafter. I spoke briefly with them, as the person who called, to confirm we had no other information about the man. His wallet had been underneath him, empty of all cash and credit cards.
I hope he was ok, but obviously we weren’t given further information. I was pretty surprised by the attitude of everyone around us. I guess that it wasn’t unusual for tourists to get drunk and sleep on the beach in that area. They seemed to feel that if a tourist got drunk, they get what they deserve. How that made it ok to watch a young man die slowly of alcohol or sun poisoning is beyond me. A few people near us at the bar did express surprise that it was us that called 911. They thought that someone who worked at the bar called.
I guess I will always assume that no one chooses to sleep in public on purpose. I can’t tell the difference between a person sleeping quietly, or passed out after a stroke, or the victim of a mugging that lost consciousness. Barring a safety concern for myself, I will continue to do so. If someone wants to get mad at me for making sure they are alive and healthy, that makes them the jerk.
The rule I was always told (right or wrong) was to see if the sleeping person looks like they made themselves comfortable first – something under the head, covering, comfortable position. If so, they probably chose to sleep wherever they are (probably due to being drunk or homeless) and I should leave them be, or maybe direct a police officer to them if one happens to be around. If they look like they just fell over, check up on them. Of course, situation would be different if I saw a person comfortably sleeping in a driveway.
That said, this is appalling. I can understand people accustomed to seeing drunk tourists sleeping off their alcohol not being too much bothered (I’m not saying it’s right, just that I can uderstand how it happens) – especially with regard to the above rule, although they should do something to protect him from the sun at least. Also, it’s dangerous to allow a drunk person to sleep on their back, they might choke to death. But a group of people TRYING TO PROP UP AN UNCONSCIOUS STRANGER FOR A SELFIE? It doesn’t matter if the strager is drunk or not, this is just wrong.
On city public transport, I usually don’t bother. Few people sleep there, unless it’s really late, and I have seen the drivers or guards do checks at final stops to make sure no one is inside.
A lot of people sleep on long-distance buses or trains here and I will not wake them unless they asked. After all, I have no way of knowing where they are supposed to get off. I would wake them if, e.g. I noticed that their wallet is almost slipping out of their pocket or something like that.
The young man was sleeping on his side, so I don’t know if choking would still be an issue.
My concerns were the sun, dehydration, and alcohol poisoning. It was getting to be close to 100 degrees by the time the cops arrived, and it was at the time of day that the sun was full on baking people. I was barely comfortable under several fans, in the shade, drinking ice cold beverages.
Because we were several feet away, at first we thought the ladies were checking on him. It wasn’t until they asked another beach goer to take the picture that we realized what they were doing. Frankly, I would have liked to see them charged with assault (or something similar). Can you imagine the outrage if a group of older men were manhandling an unconscious twenty something woman wearing nothing but a bathing suit for their photo op? To be clear, these ladies pulled him upright by his arms, so he was posed sitting up and leaning on some of them, and then clustered around him for the photo.
As soon as they had their photo with the man, they laid him back down and walked away. They appeared to be tourists, and at the time I was so disgusted and shocked by their actions, I didn’t think quickly enough to do or say anything.
As other posters said, diabetics can lapse into comas, narcaleptics can have an attack, epileptics can have a seizure, anyone can have a stroke or heart attack. Regardless, a sleeping person is vulnerable in public. I would do what I could to ensure they were safe, same as I would if I saw a child alone in public. That means asking if they are ok, and if they need help.
I take another poster’s words as good advice. If someone has obviously made themselves comfortable to sleep, and shows no signs of distress, I would probably not wake them if they were in an airport or something. With that many people around, and the obvious circumstances, I wouldn’t bother them without some other circumstances being clear reasons to do so.
If a person is lyng on his/her side, choking is usually not an issue. A serious danger is when an intoxicated person is lying on their back, because if they vomit, they may choke to death. There might also be in some danger if they lay face down, but I’m not sure, it doesn’t get mentioned so much.
If there is no other problem, it’s enough to roll the person to their side, no need to call an ambulance immediately (I mean, if they are not vomiting)
This reminds of the time when my husband and I were traveling, and (due to our flight getting in late) we were at LAX at four am or so.
Security didn’t open until 5:00, so we couldn’t get upstairs.
My husband and I were sitting on the floor when he saw a long, metal table.
He said he was going to stretch out on it (major back problems) instead of sitting on the floor for the next hour, and ended up dozing off.
I was reading a book, and saw a shady looking character walk past my husband, taking note he was sleeping, and of all our bags parked under said metal table.
After the third pass walking past my husband and eyeing up our luggage, I stood up with a very loud and exaggerated yawn, and walked over to our bags to pretend to look for something.
This guy hadn’t noticed me until that point and looked at me like a deer in headlights.
I gave him a very cheery “Good Morning!!!” and then chuckled and said, “Awww, isn’t my husband cute when he’s sleeping? I took pictures with my phone which I’m going to text to his pals at his precinct back home. Big tough cop sleeping like a baby….have a safe flight, Sir!”
Is my husband really a cop? Nope.
Did this guy mumble “have a nice flight also” and beat the heck away from us?!? Yes, he did.
He stopped walking us past us after that.
And, yes, after that I was a little scared and woke my husband up.
In some parts of the world it’s illegal to fall asleep on public transport. I’m surprised this isn’t enforced in the United States.
I agree with waking up the sleeper.
Asleep on a driveway, absolutely wake him up if you feel safe doing so: drunk people who realize it’s not safe for them to drive (and good for them) and can’t get a ride will sometimes decide to walk home. And some of them will notice the nice warm road, and lie down for a little while…mostly they wake up on their own, but some are hit by cars.
On public transit, if someone is falling asleep on me, I will absolutely nudge them, but that’s a personal space/comfort issue. (I have occasionally stood up when nudging was insufficient.) Other than that, it depends on circumstances: first of all, does the train run all night, and if not, is this near the end of the service day? The risk of being locked in the train yards overnight is a different outcome from maybe having to ride back from the end of the line. I used to live at the end of the A line in Manhattan, and there were commuters who had trained themselves to wake up just in time to get off the train at their stop; I also knew that the conductors would go through and wake any sleepers before a train went out of service.
About waking someone on the beach: there were the (I believe it was 2) young ladies at Alligator Point (a small public beach in North West Florida) who were sleeping on the beach for a long time…. finally a storm threatened and everyone left the beach. A person went to wake the girls and let them know to get off the beach. That’s when it was discovered they’d been murdered and had been lying there dead for hours.
They still would have been just as dead if no one had tried to waken them, but it was just horrible to think of them lying there in the sun, dead, surrounded by happy people….
Oh, what a horrible story…
Beaches are tricky, on the other hand, because on a sunny there is usually a lot of people lying motionless. I would not go check up on a person lying motionless on a blanket, unless there were other reasons to suspect they might not be all right.
I remember that story. It happened back in the 80’s.
It was actually a police officer and his family who walked by the two college-aged girls twice (heading out to the water and back to their car) before it was discovered the girls had been killed hours before.
The whole thing was weird because the murderer called the police, confessed to those two killings plus another murder, wrote a long letter detailing the crimes, put the letter in the mail, and then killed himself with poison.
The whole thing makes me shudder. And I feel bad for that family. How awful to know that while you were enjoying your day at the beach there were two murdered girls just a few feet away.
The only time this was ever an issue for me was when I used to ride the bus to work. I was undergoing chemotherapy for a time, and once in a while I would be so tired I’d fall asleep on the bus on the way home. Because I knew pretty much everyone on the bus (it was an express), nobody was afraid to wake me up when I reached my stop.
If I were a stranger in a strange land and I fell asleep on public transportation, I would definitely want a kind soul to wake me up, if only to keep me from being victimized by a LESS kind soul.
Confession time. I was on a streetcar once. The streetcar short-turned. Which means it did not go all the way to the destination. Passengers get off and board another street car which is on its way.
There was a young man asleep. No one woke him. The driver didn’t notice. The streetcar turned in to the storage building where it would be “put to bed” for the day. I pictured him waking up confused about where he was or being woken up (maybe the driver walks through before shutting down). He was in no way in danger and the streetcar-park was right there, not a long drive away.
It was very, very mean of me and I’m hanging my head in shame. But I’m kind of laughing too.
I take public transportation. And I always see this young lady get off at the stop previous to mine. She was out like a light earlier this week, but the bus driver and I both went “huh… young lady?, I believe this is your stop?” She was grateful: both for us noticing and waking her up. But we’re talking a college town where we know her fellow (daily) traveling companions 😉
*your* fellow traveling companions
Unless it’s obvious that the person wanted to sleep and is in a place where it might be understandable to do so (I.e. Laying on the airport floor with a pillow or sleeping in a waiting-room chair at a hospital), I see no problem with politely waking them up to make sure they are okay. It could be that they have actually passed out or even been drugged by someone with malicious intentions (especially a woman “sleeping” at a party or a bar). If people want undisturbed sleep, they can get a private room!
Last year I came across a man on the pavement outside a shopping centre. By his appearance he was likely homeless and I could smell alcohol. He seemed to just be asleep but I didn’t want to leave him be in case there was a medical problem – but I was heavily pregnant at the time and didn’t want to put myself at risk. In the end, after making sure that this guy was breathing, I went into the shopping mall and alerted a security guard. I hope I did the right thing- I did feel guilty for not approaching the guy myself but I think I was justified in being cautious.
On a long flight home, my husband and I decided to try to sleep.
He had the window seat, I was in the middle, and a young man had the aisle seat.
My husband leaned up against the window, and I leaned on my husband, and we both had our own blankets and pillows we bought before we boarded.
We both dozed off, and towards the end of the flight, we woke up to the announcements we would be landing shortly.
I sat up and realized the young man in the aisle seat had fallen asleep as well, and (I’m assuming) in his sleep pulled half of my blanket over to cover him!
I started laughing which woke the young man up, who looked very confused for a moment as to where he was, and even more confused when he saw he was covered with my blanket!!!
“Oh, my God!!! I’m SO SORRY ma’am!!!”
I said, “no problem at all….guess you had a good nap!”
He said “yes, I sure did sleep soundly if I stole your blanket off of you”!!!
I recently woke up a woman in an airport lounge. She had checked in right in front of me, so I knew she was on my flight. The flight was delayed and wasn’t called until 1:00 a.m. She was soundly sleeping. In act, I had to shake her pretty hard to wake her up.
She was super grateful that I had woken her up. She sat directly behind us on the plane and she fell promptly back asleep. I went to sleep too.
On the other hand, when I ride the tram early Sunday morning, there are often people asleep on it. I always let the sleep because some of them look homeless and I figure if they can get a good sleep in a safe, dry, warm place, I’m certainly going to let them.