Recently at lunch with several girlfriends, one inquired about my recovery from a medical procedure. It was in line with the normal caring expressed between close friends, not prying. However, upon hearing the name of my doctor B exclaimed loudly and proceeded to spend 10 minutes reviling the doctor, claiming someone in her family had had a terrible experience, that other doctors had warned her of his incompetence, on and on. When she finally wound down to find all us us staring at her in surprise, B simply shrugged, and said “Sorry, but you need to know.”
Certainly, I wish she had spoken to me privately and not made quite such a spectacle. Plus it leaves me in an awkward frame of mind. I’m in the MIDDLE of treatment with this doctor. I have no way of verifying anything she believes; nor is it really practical to switch or get a second opinion at this stage. And, yes, I’ve also heard GOOD things about him.
I suppose medical concerns can override our typically polite interactions, and this hit several. It made me wonder how I’d balance the rules of manners and friendship if I found myself in her position. Hopefully, I’d at least opted for a more private conversation. 0430-18
The surgeon who did two of my cancer surgeries has a reputation for being short tempered, opinionated and a verbal bull in the china shop. Nor does he have a cuddly bedside manner. He’s also an exceptionally talented surgeon who will tell me the truth rather than blow twinkie dust at me.
People have opinions about doctors that may have nothing whatsoever to do with their actual competence so it’s wise to take those opinions with a grain of salt. The passion with which your friend relayed her information indicates this is a serious issue in her mind and that she is concerned for you. One can appreciate the level of concern while ignoring the content of the message.
I was once warned about a doctor and didn’t listen about 35 years ago. I live with the side effects from his misdiagnosis and prescription of a harmful medicine I did not need. He was not a good-hearted person who made a mistake. His records later indicated a hasty, careless diagnosis. This was not a life-threatening condition, but quality of life issue. The condition brought about by this medication may have contributed to my infertility.
Both the admin and your friend were right. You have a tough call to make.
Thirty-five years ago, there was no internet. Now you can research a doctor and see if there have been any malpractice suits against him/her in any state. You can find out about board certifications, where the doctor was trained, and pretty well any information you need as well as what other patients have posted about they care they received. Forewarned is forearmed.
Reviews won’t help when there’s a culture of silence in place helping hideshonky doctors.
This case is currently unveiling itself in my home state. Decades of abuse and women being discouraged to complain officially. (Even though some patients WOKE UP WITH MISSING ORGANS)
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jun/17/nine-more-women-may-have-been-affected-by-gynaecologists-misconduct
I’m inclined to side with the friend here. Sure her delivery could have been better but silence in these cases helps no one.
I think this falls under the same category as unsolicited medical advice. The people who give it mean well, but their information is usually specious at best. It’s best to respond by saying, “Thank you for your concern, but I’m satisfied with the level of care I’m receiving.”
I don’t see how B expected the OP to react to this. One, it was said public, not the place to say such things and obviously made things awkward for everyone. Two, does she expect OP to suddenly ring up the doctor and demand that she be referred to someone else, in the middle of her treatment, on one person’s say-so? Three, I can almost guarantee you that any doctor one names, in any field, will have passionate detractors as well as ardent supporters. All doctors are subject to mistakes; that doesn’t mean that the mistakes are constant.
I have been asked my opinion of certain doctors, which is very different from offering that information unasked. If I have negative things to say, I always, always follow that up with the fact that this was my experience only, and that I’m sure others could say many good things about him or her as well. Telling a person, in the middle of a medical situation, something to undermine his or her confidence in his or her doctor or treatment is not helpful, unless this is something life-threatening or serious, such as a doctor offering many pain pills to a known addict.
This is not unlike what Admin said, but as a cancer survivor myself– I care much less about the bedside manner of my oncologist and much more about his ability to explain what’s happening with me in a way I understand and his honesty. In my support groups, it rapidly became evident to me that many women expected to hear there was a fix for everything and that was the basis they used to judge their doctors. If you’re reasonably happy with your doctor and your treatment (I know not all treatment is pleasant), you are in a great place!
I very much doubt that other doctors had warned her of his incompetence. That is slander and grounds for an expensive law suit as well as being extremely unprofessional. There are web sites where one can check on a doctor’s malpractice lawsuits, where the doctor trained, if he/she is board certified, and so forth. Do the research and read what other patients have posted about your doctor.
I wouldn’t doubt for a second that other medical professionals are telling her to keep her distance. It happens all the time. Five health care professionals, after finding out who my uncle’s doctor was, said “oh no – I would have told you not to go to him….” :/
One of the ways I’ve found good doctors is by asking the wives of local surgeons who they see.
Since their husbands are politicking their way up the chain in the local hospital system, they tend to hear about the best and the worst doctors on staff.
I would take what she said with a grain of salt. Because she was simply telling about someone else she knew, who supposedly had a bad experience with this doctor. Not her, so it wasn’t even her own first-hand experience. So you got this information third hand, and honestly, who knows how accurate it actually is.
I know in various local FB groups I’m in, people will ask for recommendations for doctors all the time. I’ve seen certain ones recommended, including doctors I myself have seen, and been happy with. Or not. And others who say that same doctor was horrible or wonderful. Everyone has differnt expectations! I have an awesome orthopedist, who a friend also goes to, and we both love him. Her sister? She prefers another dr. in that practice. So my advice would be if you’re happy with the dr. and the treatment you’re receiving, that’s all that matters, since everyone will have a different opinion about everything.
My OB with my youngest was absolutely amazing. He was by far the best OB/GYN I have ever seen and I couldn’t find a single fault with him. He left me alone while I was laboring and only came in to check on things when I was getting closer. This is exactly what I wanted, I didn’t want anyone breathing down my neck or constantly checking my cervix. Because of this I labored for maybe 6 hours total and delivered within 20 minutes of my start to push. In the birth video he is cracking jokes and I’m laughing in between pushes. I went drug free but he was so empowering and light hearted that I didn’t feel like I was in a medical facility. On the flip side I know women who hated him because they felt like he didn’t take their symptoms seriously enough. For example, morning sickness past the first trimester or increased urinating….all normal pregnancy related issues. I had pre-e and he took that quite seriously which is why when I went in because I wasn’t feeling well he checked my BP and my cervix and saw I was 5 cm. He admitted me because my BP was really high and decided to break my water to kick start the process. He made the right choice but he didn’t do all these medical interventions. I didn’t need it. I was fine. My baby was fine. Some women find that off putting. They want the doctor to be running tests and exams. I remember him scolding me for drinking red raspberry leaf tea when I was 38 weeks because I wanted to go into labor. It did something for sure but it stalled. He came in wearing jeans and a t-shirt and said “really? Really?” I was all sheepish and he told me that this baby will come out when he is good and ready and to stop drinking that damn tea. 2 weeks later I was in labor. Such a funny guy to be honest. I refer everyone to him!
This situation falls under the same etiquette rules as a rant, for me. Do I want to listen to anyone go on a 10-minute diatribe about anything? Not really. The best way to handle something potentially sensitive like this is to say, “Oh, Dr. So-and-so…I’ve heard some mixed reviews about him/her. I can pass along what my friends have reported if you’re interested.”
While I appreciate that you get awkward and would have preferred your friend speak to you in private I think there’s other factors to consider.
First, you’re speaking about your medical problems with your friends so B may have felt comfortable talking about the Dr as well. It may have not been polite but I can see someone thinking that since you’re already on a personal subject, this would be okay too.
Second, remember that she is speaking out of general concern having had a relative with a bad experience. B was trying to warn you the dr may be incompetent based on what she witnessed someone go through. That’s pretty important. And you absolutely can change Drs mid-care, people do it all the time if they’re unhappy with their care (also Drs have babies, get sick, die, go on vacations and turn their patients over to someone else.)
Finally, I used to have an ob/gyn that I really liked. My bf and all her aunts went there too. Another friend told us she’d seen this Dr and felt she wasn’t very thorough. We shrugged it off and about two years later this Dr missed a major cancer diagnosis in my friends aunt, not finding it until it was very advanced despite the aunt having symptoms for some time. She even gave her a treatment that contributed to the spread of the cancer. Your friend is looking out for you, if you don’t want to do anything about it that’s fine but at least appreciate that she may be giving you important advice.
The issue that you and your friend are both coping with is anxiety. She’s anxious/ angry about the trauma and impact of this doctor’s treatment on her family member and you’re (rightfully) concerned because you’re in the middle of treatment and unable to “swap horses in the middle of the stream”. We can only work with the factors within our control. Your wellness is in your control insofar as doing your due diligence with respect to selection of treatment and your personal health habits. Your doctor’s implementation of treatment (or his bedside manner?) aren’t within your control. Your friend is likewise not in control of this doctor’s interactions with her family member. (And you have no way of knowing with certainty if her report is accurate or heavily biased.) It sounds to me like it isn’t worth the drama to pursue it. It’s sadly common for all and sundry to weigh in on a crisis situation and medical care management seems to be at the top of the list. Unless you come across some factual indication of this physician’s prior malfeasance or incompetence (and you can research it, for your own peace of mind), no further action is warranted. Except that it’s perfectly proper to tell your friend that her outburst upset you. Her statement that you “needed to know” fails to cover her self-absorption about the time, manner and vehemence with which she delivered her speech. If she resists, maybe explain that patients are generally at the center of care. Family and friends are in concentric and increasingly distant circles out from them. Using circles to illustrate that dumping negativity and other neediness onto people suffering with illness (whereas support should flow in, generally speaking, due to the demands of being ill) does sometimes clear up the issue with repeat offenders.
My husband and I live in a small town in a relatively rural area, so even though there are multiple medical facilities in the surrounding areas, there are a limited number of actual surgeons – and everyone will tell you what they think about Dr. X as opposed to Dr. Y and why one is terrible and one is great… (and vice-versa). However, in my experience, peoples’ opinions on how good a Dr. is or is not tend to line up most directly with their personal EXPECTATIONS – rather than with actual results… In other words, as long as things go the way the patient (and family) expect, they are satisfied – and he’s a GREAT Dr. – but if there should be complications and/or things don’t work out as expected, the Dr. may be blamed and criticized – whether or not he/she did anything wrong… Which is one reason we’re always careful when considering surgical options to get a good understanding of what results we can reasonably expect – and what may not be predictable… 😉
People have lots of reasons to choose not to sue: lack of funds for an attorney, need to move on, afraid of retaliation in a close-knit medical community, lack of documented evidence. The absence of malpractice suits doesn’t indicate a competent doctor.
My point was, rightly or wrongly, the cat is out of the bag, so to speak. The friend handled the situation poorly, let her emotions get the better of her, and should have spoken calmly, caringly, and most importantly, PRIVATELY to OP. And the concerns expressed may not have been bedside manner, but quality of care (a big issue for me).
But, now having that information, the poor presentation doesn’t negate the importance (I don’t mean validity) of the information. I mean, if a friend told me that my accountant embezzled money from a relative, but told me in a public outburst, I’d see that the information wasn’t conveyed in the best of ways, but I wouldn’t ignore it. The OP has a decision to make about the information: disregard as irrelevant (and it may be irrelevant, untrue, or not in the scope of OP’s values), or heed if it is relevant and important.
Doctors who make serious errors can have their licenses to practice medicine pulled by the state in which they practice. That will also appear on the same sites.
And doctors who make serious errors can also be protected by their hospital and never face any consequences.
There are doctors who had body counts in the high two digits low three digits before they finally hit a hospital or nursing staff that was willing to look into the doctor’s negligence/incompetence/malice rather than cover it up and shove them off onto the next hospital system.
Hospitals have a financial incentive to cover for bad doctors and nurses, to deal with them quietly and internally. It gets the doctor or nurse out of that hospital, but it also leaves their record clear which helps them get hired at the next hospital.
If you have any internal concern that some of her rant may be valid, do some research on your own to see if there is any validity in her claims. If you are completely happy with how you are being treated then thank her for her concern and move along. If she continues to rant then you’ll need to give her a firm response that you are happy with your care. The admin is right, she heard about a bad experience with someone’s health and she doesn’t want you to end up in the same boat. Best of luck on your treatment!
Surgery is a specialty that many within struggle with people skills, they’re trained to cut into us and sew us back up! It goes with the territory.
My mom loves the gyno she was seeing. I went there on her recommendation. He was a total jerk without any respect for my GPs prescriptions despite them being for reproductive system issues. He only paid attention to what my former gyno wrote in my chart because they were colleagues and he “trusted him”. Nasty experience. But mom liked him and that’s okay because we expect different things and she doesn’t have anything that requires the understanding mine does!
This unsolicited advice is obnoxious. You do it in private and in the tone of “I’m letting you know I’ve heard this, do what you want with the info.”. I’ll immediately tune out someone when they start ranting, they don’t seem rationale, why am I going to take them seriously!!
I can feel emotion rising in me just reading this story. As someone with a family member who was a victim of medical incompetence, I will just say that the medical profession in America does not do a good job of policing their own. And lawsuits are not always filed for a variety of legitimate reasons. Your friend would have best waited and could have said – “I have something really important I need to talk to you about later” but I think the level of emotion with this kind of thing runs pretty high and if she loves you as her friend, it would have been hard to keep her feelings contained. Best wishes to you OP as you continue treatments – and don’t hesitate to ask other medical professionals for their advice on your doctor.
I’m with admin: I think B’s concern is admirable but her approach was lacking. For example, I had a midwife in the beginning of my second pregnancy who not only gave me medically dangerous advice but also missed something rather important that was picked up later by a GP. I know this came from prejudice on the part of the midwife. Seeing as it’s an ‘acceptable’ or easily dismissed prejudice I would want to warn anyone like me who was considering using this woman as their LMC (lead maternity carer). But I would not have done so in public.
Also, in my country we don’t have the right to sue bad doctors. So passing on knowledge of who to avoid is usually done by word of mouth.
The obgyn who stitched me up after baby 3 was a competent doctor with an almost offensively quirky bedside manner. The midwives had warned me before he came and I really appreciated that because it made the experience rather amusing for me instead of taking offense. It was quite bizarre!!!
Given that doctors are in such a position of authority over us non-medical-General-populace, I’d appreciate the candidness of your friend, though she probably could have introduced it more tactfully.
Bedside manner is one thing but there are many reasons why I would speak to another person about a physician I had encountered.
Our family doctor was seeing my grandmother monthly – even making house calls – and did not notice she had developed a brain tumor. Only when her eye doctor found that her sudden visual degeneration was not the fault of her eyes, did anything get done. The tumor killed her. As a family we dumped the doctor and told everyone why. I’d say that’s a pretty good reason.
Another time, one of my co-workers told me to avoid Dr. X at this certain dental office, and to ask instead for Dr. Z – the old guy. Dr. X was performing a root canal on my co-worker when his instrument broke in the guy’s tooth. He tried to retrieve it with no luck, so he sent my co-worker home. As he was the first patient of the day, the dentist could not afford to take the time and fix the issue, as all the other patients that day would be late. With the metal stuck in his half-open tooth, my co-worker was (fortunately) rescheduled for the next morning. Good advice?
It depends upon what is said, and when, but I’m sure that the news would have to be pretty serious for me to dump the doctor mid-treatment. That said, if someone told me my oncologist was not very sensitive to pain or nausea issues, I’d also think that to be good advice.
Unsolicited and in public, this wasn’t the way to do it. If you did your research, have good references, go for it. One person is not the end of it. For one reason or another, they don’t know the doctor well enough or the person just didn’t respond like they should….
I had several serious and increasingly worsening issues with my cycle, and went through some years of problems. Finally I met a doctor. His first impression was pretty bad. I was with an HMO and getting a reassignment to another doctor would be difficult. I went ahead. He ended up to be a (deleted) good doctor, and though he usually helped women have children, he helped me get what I needed (he admitted about 3% of his cases were like me, not trying and having other issues). He fought the insurance until he won, and I got the treatment I needed. I did have to go through three major surgeries a year apart (exploratory and tubes, endometrial ablation-it failed, and a hysterectomy). I warned my DH who was going to meet him the first time before the third surgery that he would come across as a first class doof. He did. My DH was white and shaking afterwards and questioned I was going to let this man work on me? I said this is my third trip under the knife with him, yes. I came through fine, and still regret he moved to a private practice and no more insurance. I owe him my life. Had I gone with my first impression and those first few visits… It’s been 25 years. Thank you Dr. I am still grateful.
So OP, I hope everything turns out well for you. I really truly do.
I think that there’s a lot to be said regarding the fact that people want different things from their doctors. Doctors are people, they have personalities that they aren’t just going to switch off. What’s perfect for one person might be exactly wrong for another. There are general issues to be on the lookout for with any doctor (if it seems like they’re not listening or not responsive to certain concerns) but a certain amount of it really will come down to the individual.