Dating – Etiquette Hell

Banded Badness

September 10, 2013September 9, 2013admin93 Comments

I have an exceedingly awkward, and (for me, at least) one that is also, to put it bluntly, humiliating. And I have absolutely no idea how to handle it well, having never encountered such awful behavior EVER (maybe I’ve just been extremely lucky?).

Here is necessary background: a little over a year ago, I was briefly – for approximately two months, maybe? – romantically entangled with a guy who I will call “N”. He is in his early 40s, I was at the time 23, and I am now 24. I add the ages because I really feel that despite the age gap, out of the two of us, I handled our relationship – and actually, life at large -in a far more mature manner than he. The relationship was not healthy (he wasn’t abusive or anything, but it was just not good) and at the time I was in a very bad place, so after we’d been seeing each other for a bit I broke things off with him. I tried to do so in as peaceful and friendly manner as possible, however, N took it very badly, and in fact for at least a month after was veering toward being a stalker. Eventually he settled down, and we went our separate ways. This was May of 2012.

At the beginning of August, after having flown solo since seeing N, I (quite literally) randomly met a wonderful man – call him J – who, in horrible coincidence, just happened to be a member of a band that N is also in. I had never met or seen J while I was dating N, so this really was just a terrible coincidence. J and I started dating, and while it was clear to us that N was very jealous, he seemed to be controlling himself very well. J and I are also closer in age – he just recently turned 30. I saw N occasionally when I went to one of their band’s concerts, and (I thought, anyway) that we now had a civil acquaintance going on. Of course I was wrong! That would make things entirely too peaceful, as you will soon see.

In December, I became pregnant. It was a surprise, but J and I decided to raise our child together. When he saw me at one of their concerts, N even very sweetly congratulated me/us and said he wished us all the best. Then rather suddenly, J declared that he didn’t want me to attend any of their concerts again, since N would be there. I was confused – J knew perfectly well that I had no romantic interest in N – and after I continued poking at him, he confessed that N had (for quite some time) been making comments to J about how he hoped J was enjoying the ‘sloppy seconds’ and other equally crude and disrespectful statements, all regarding J and I’s relationship. I wanted to immediately contact N and give him what-for, but J requested I just let it be…so I grit my teeth and did so, hoping that if N continued to get no reaction he would stop.

Instead of stopping, N has now crossed a line that I find absolutely impossible to ignore. At their band practice this past week, he first greeted J by asking, “So, how’s N Jr.?”, implying that the child I am carrying is a.) Not J’s, and b). That he is still in some kind of relationship with me. J tried to play it off by reminding N that actually, our baby is a SHE, and SHE is doing just fine. N then proceeded to make a series of lewd comments involving our unborn daughter – the detail is totally inappropriate to share, but suffice to say it involved what might happen once our daughter turns 16 since that’s the age of consent….yes, it was that bad and worse.

My gut instinct is to do actual physical harm to N – it’s one thing to needle J about me. I can deal with that. But this is just….beyond unacceptable. Clearly ignoring his comments will not work, J does not want to confront N himself for a few different reasons (which are all very rational and acceptable to me), and I am just at an absolute loss as to how to handle this. Please help! I want to handle this with class, but still make it crystal clear to N that the comments WILL stop. Short of hiring a hitman (no, I’m kidding), I don’t know how. Thank you in advance for all assistance, and you have my utmost gratitude. Sorry this was so long! 0615-13

If N is as bad you claim, one wonders why J is not doing whatever is necessary to protect his family which could well include leaving the band to join another one and moving his small family a distance away. And I wonder why the other band members appear to have no influence on N’s behavior towards another band member….the band sounds dysfunctional if that kind of relationship interaction is allowed to continue. J and N go to work playing in a band yet there is no professional courtesy, civility or demeanor that this band’s members appear to uphold. Isn’t there a band leader/organizer who can control the actions and words of N because to not do so creates a hostile work environment and guarantees the band will never achieve success with so much relational strife going on.

Dietary Dating

October 24, 2011October 24, 2011admin85 Comments

My friend told me this story a few years ago. It’s not as horrible as some of the other stories I’ve read, but it definitely illustrates the need for a “Dating Etiquette for Dummies” book.

In college, my friend was asked out by this guy she met at school. He was cute and seemed pretty nice, so she said yes, and he took her to a nice restaurant for their date. When they got there, they were seated, and the waiter walked up to them and asked them what they would like to drink. Before either of them had even had a chance to glance at the menu, her date took it upon himself to order not only their drinks and his food but also her food as well! If I remember correctly, it was steak or something similar. Too shocked to do anything else, my friend sat there in silence as the waiter wrote down the order and walked away. Feminism aside (and my friend is a strong supporter of feminism, so that was his first mistake), if her date had even bothered to, perhaps, suggest this meal to her (e.g., “I have to recommend that you get the steak here. It’s the best I’ve ever had.”) instead of taking it upon himself to make her decision for her, he would have found out that my friend is a vegetarian.

Perhaps he was trying to impress her by ordering the best thing on the menu. We don’t know what his reasoning was, but he did not get a second date (due to this and a general personality clash). 1120-10

Vacation Expectation

August 9, 2011August 5, 2011admin73 Comments

My spouse’s family going on a family vacation every year for one week. There are around 32 people sharing a house. The eight siblings and parents are the main invites. Since the family, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews and spouses are steadily increasing, the family has decided not to invite any unmarried family members. (To clarify for readers, the LW means girlfriends, boyfriends of family members. – Admin)

Now, the brother is invited but not his girlfriend and her children. They also do not include these people in their gift exchange at Xmas. This year they forbid one of their brothers to bring his girl friend and two sons. They felt he should come alone with only his son from his first marriage. He had already told his girlfriend about the vacation and she had gone on the vacation before. She had arranged to take the week off before the family made the new rule. Keep in mind that they had a messy break up last year and have recently gotten back together. Many of the family members do not care for the brother’s girl friend. Because of the bad feelings caused by this “Rule Change” the brother did not come at all. This brother had never missed a vacation prior to the new rule. He is only one of two who is divorced and has to deal with girlfriends and step children. I think this is very heartless and selfish of the family. The brothers and sisters are in their 40’s and 50”s.

What is the etiquette in this situation?

The larger the group of people, the greater the potential for misunderstandings and ugly relationship dynamics. I suspect there is a whole lot more background to this story than is being given in one paragraph. There is just not enough information as to how the decision was made (did everyone vote?), who pays for the rental, whether the main invitees knew the GF had already been making plans to attend based on the prior year’s attendance, what the opinions of other family members were about having someone there who was the reason for some serious awkwardness, etc….. I’m not sure I can adjudicate these situation accurately with so little information.

My first thought is that no one is entitled to someone else’s vacation. If a family vacation has been the tradition for years, one can get on some pretty shaky ground having an assumption that a dating relationship is an entry ticket to all of the family events. Particularly if there was an ugly, messy breakup at some point. Believe what you will but you don’t just break up or divorce the spouse, you end up breaking up with the entire family, in varying degrees. I and my husband fund the annual family vacation which is a very treasured, high priority family time. It ranks up right behind Christmas Eve. I’m not sure I would want someone not knit into our family sharing that precious family time in a way that taints it. In other words, I think we’d need time to trust that this relationship was going to last before opening up the guest list, our home, our hearts. As you wrote, Brother and GF only “recently” got back together after being apart since last year….I’m betting the rest of the family hasn’t processed this new development yet.

How was this decision reached? Group consensus? Parental command? At minimum, there should have been some courtesy given to the girlfriend to inform her before her plans were made. And what of the dynamic between Brother’s son and his girlfriend’s two sons? Is that healthy? Could the rest of the family be seeing something the Brother refuses to see and are taking steps to protect the grandson/nephew? Too many loose ends here to make any determination. I hesitate to make a definitive statement lest it be done in ignorance of the total family dynamics and my words used inappropriately to justify one behavior over another.

And btw, at 32 people sharing one house, I think it is time to rent two houses side by side. Most of my friends with large families who do the annual or semi annual family vacation end up renting two houses side by side when numbers get big. It works out great in that you can put the geezers in one house and have the youngsters in another, people can be housed with members they are closest to or away from those that irritate them.

Am I Not Beautiful, Studly, And Therefore Profoundly Datable?

June 20, 2011admin86 Comments

I had to write in and tell you about yet another story because in a way I promised someone that I would. Read on and you’ll see 🙂

I put myself through university and attended full time classes while working. This meant that I had to study whenever I could. Just before winter exams, I was cramming for a final in a campus coffee shop. I was sitting on a couch and this cute guy asked if he could join me because all of the tables were full. I nodded and went back to studying. And he began talking. And talking. Finally I politely told him that I had an exam in about an hour and still needed to review some things for it. He promised to be quiet if I would agree to go for dinner with him the next night. I agreed. He kept talking. Finally I had to head to my class and he insisted on walking me and stood right outside the open door and announced that we would have a great date. By this time the entire room had settled and most people in the back heard him. Embarrassing!

I wrote the exam and headed home. I wasn’t in the door for five minutes when he called to see if I wanted to go grab a quick coffee. I wasn’t busy and so I agreed. My grandmother had also died a week earlier and I was devastated and needed a distraction because I couldn’t afford to fly home for her funeral. So we went for coffee and I’ve never been out with a man who talked so much about his appearance. At one point he asked me what I thought he was. I was confused by what he meant until he clarified that he wanted me to guess his ethnic background. He lit up like a child at Christmas when he told me that he’s Lebanese and Irish and that’s why his skin looks so tanned but his eyes are so blue. And his teeth! Did I notice how white his teeth were? Then he made me touch his arm because holy cow was his skin soft! I chalked his self promoting up to nerves. I’m 5’3 and he was a little shorter than me. I figured that he was nervous and really wanted to sell himself.

About an hour after our coffee date he called again and asked if he could cook me dinner that night. I wanted to figure him out and so I went over. His place was decorated with some interesting things and he asked if I wanted to “see something cool”. Then he flexed. And then rolled up his jeans to show me how defined his calves were. The bragging continued. He regaled me with tales of being in the top five in his program and of how he had once been a Calvin Klein underwear model. I don’t know if it was my majoring in psychology or a need for distraction or both but I still went for dinner the next night. He decided that it was finally time to talk about me this time. He successfully guessed my size, weight and bra size. Back then I was still recovering from an eating disorder and I hated that he knew that I was a size 8. I felt fat and disgusting and was mortified that he had just announced that and what I weighed.

I spent the next couple of weeks seeing him here and there because I wanted to give him a fair chance. One night it was colder than normal and I didn’t have a car. I was close to where he lived and a good hour’s walk from home so I called to see if he could pick me up. He replied that he was in sweats and didn’t like to leave the house when he didn’t look his best so no. He would not pick me up. I understood and we didn’t really talk again before Christmas break. Reading week arrived and who would walk into my coffee shop? He wanted to take me out again because he realized that he had been a jerk and he wanted to make it up to me. I refused and he badgered me until I gave in. We went to another coffee shop when I closed mine and he began to tell me about…a new girl he was trying to date. He told me about how tall she was, how tanned her skin was and how amazingly sexy she was. Apparently short women with fair skin looked “ill” to him and he had never found them (us) attractive. He told me about a diamond necklace that he had bought her because he just had to see its gold on her skin. He told me how rich her family was etc and then he dropped the bomb. He told me her weight and size including her bra size. As he said that last part he added that he liked that she wore a small B cup because anything over that was “gross”. At that point I reminded him that he had successfully guessed that I’m a C and I got up and left. He chased me outside and asked what he had done wrong. I replied that one day I was going to write a book about my bad dates and that he could read it then. He looked absolutely petrified and pleaded with me not to because it would ruin him. I kid you not.

Anyhow I never did write the book but I figure this still counts and I can say that I kept my promise to write about him 🙂 I’m happy to say that I’m very happily engaged to a wonderful man who thinks that I’m beautiful and tells me daily. 0619-11

Dutch Awkward

March 10, 2011admin53 Comments

Several years ago “Dave” and I were living in the same city. He worked at a local junior college part time. I was struggling with work and school. We met through a friend. And that’s how we started off. Since money was tight for both of us, mostly when we went out it for just for coffee. Or if dinner was involved we went Dutch. I never had an issue with this.

Now I know that he wanted to move the relationship to the next level, but I didn’t want to. He seemed fine with being friends. One year, he said that he wanted to take me out for my birthday and made it a point to let me know that he was “going to take me out.” Now, I did take that to mean that he was going to pick up the bill. Also he said that I could pick any place that I wanted to go (so no burget restrictions. And I wasn’t going to choose the Ritz). I wanted to do an Indian resturaunt. One that we usually walked by. The menu was on the outside with prices. The cost of the place would not have been a surprise. Granted this wasn’t the cheapest, but I didn’t choose the priciest either. As we were planning this ahead, he could have/should have known that dinner for two would probably run about $30 dollars (I would have stuck with soda or water to keep the tab down).

Again I will mention that money was tight for Dave. Dave postponed the birthday dinner saying that it wasn’t in the budget at a particular time. Fine, some bills come or there could have been some surprise. Having also forgone things because of no money I can understand.

Finally birthday dinner night arrives, actual birthday is long since past. We go out. Order reasonably priced items on the menu. No booze. Remember he had said that he wanted to take me out and postponed until he had some money. The check arrives. Dave looks at it, then at me and says “go dutch?” The bill was close to $35, but still. What annoyed me most was don’t make such a big deal about taking me out and then asking me to pay for my own birthday meal. Yes, I did pay half. Even if I had been the least bit interested, this would have killed any chance for him moving onto a higher level.

We did go out again as friends. Always dutch. That was fine with me. FYI he has since gotten married and is quite happy with two kids. A nice guy, just a little clueless. 0308-11