Etiquette Hell

Forum Administration => Forum Announcements => Topic started by: Ehelldame on September 02, 2011, 09:11:16 AM

Title: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Ehelldame on September 02, 2011, 09:11:16 AM

1.  There are trolls on the Internet and Ehell is not immune from them. 

2.  There are some seriously obsessed/disturbed people online these days.  Some of them have stated a life's mission to troll Ehell.   The moderating tools available to admins and mods are quite sophisticated and we use them but sometimes a troll gets in. 
 
3.  This forum is not a therapy support group.  It has been written in the rules and extensively in threads by mods over the years that we are not equipted to handle issues related to medical problems, mental illness, sexual advice,  legal advice and so forth.  We are not here to be a support group for any issues other than etiquette faux pas.  If a poster requires an inordinate amount of mental health, legal advice, etc that elicits strong feelings of sympathy, that *could* be a warning flag.  Your responsibility is to check your emotions, step back and reserve judgment until such time as you have more evidence one way or the other regarding the veracity of the story. 

4.  Each member is responsible for their own emotional investment in other people's lives.  The moderators cannot shield every member from ever being duped by some clever troll.  The moderators will remove trolls once it is determined that member is one. 

5.  Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.  If I were to discuss a situation I've been going through this past year, I'm sure some would call shenanigans.  One friend said, "Jeanne, if I didn't know you in real life and see this unfold, I'd never believe it."   Be very careful how you call shenanigans.   It is very acceptable to ask people for clarifications on what you perceive to be holes in the story.  Outright claiming they are lying is not acceptable.  Ask questions in such a way that it becomes obvious by their own answers that they've hung themselves....that's what we mean by giving people plenty of rope to hang themselves.  Some members are very good at setting up great questions and the stupid troll slams the ball right out of the ball park with their answers.

6.  Calling people out in threads about something they did in another thread or dragging conflicts from one thread to another is a quick way to get on a moderator radar.  Particularly if you've never bothered to report problems to a moderator.   It's disruptive to the forum, adds fuel to whatever fires, broadcasts what could have been a very "local" problem in one thread to a greater audience and you will have the mods wondering if you are a troll making trouble on the forum. 

6. There are drama queens on the Internet.   But being a drama queen on Ehell means you are using this forum in a manner inconsistent with its mission statement.   Moderators have banned a few members whose drama queeniness seems to be a way of life and they contribute nothing of value to the forum other than an incessant whining about the miserable state of their life. 

6.  If you suspect someone is a troll or a previously banned member, please contact a moderator via the Report link.  Some of our members are *very* good detectives and provide the mods with irrefutable proof of their belief that someone is not who they claim to be.    Having an "feeling" about someone will get noted by the mods but probably not acted upon unless more evidence surfaces.  Given that some  rare people do use the Report feature to retaliate against members they don't like, everyone should take comfort that the mods do not ban based solely on word of mouth reports. 

7.  Self policing is not the same as being a vigilante.  Self policing means you take responsibility to manage your own reading, to ignore annoying people, to walk away from threads that bother or disturb you, to control your own words and reactions, use the "delete" key as needed and use the Report link when necessary.  Some of the things reported as abusive to mods could have been dealt with a simple "delete" of the offending PM or thread.   
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on September 03, 2011, 07:22:43 AM
This is a great list with great wording. We've had so many threads asking bout these issues, this really spells it out clearly, IMO. Thank you for this!
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Sabbyfrog2 on October 26, 2011, 03:32:24 PM
Thanks Dame!
I honestly haven't noticed too many issues like the ones listed but I guess that means the mods are doing a great job of getting them taken care of before I get to them. That or I am just fortunate enough to miss the heavy drama threads.

I like it here. I don't want all that drama. Heck, I use this forum to AVOID drama so I am glad that whatever is going on is being dealt with so we can keep it that way.  :D
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Hollanda on January 28, 2012, 03:59:42 PM
Ooh thank you (I do not know how I missed this one).

You answered my question!!!

xxx
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 28, 2012, 05:12:15 PM
Maybe this has already been answered so please point me in the right direction if I'm being redundant.

What happens if the etiquette advice is tied up in legal/medical issues?  I have noticed when reading older posts that some posts get locked and others don't.  I haven't been figure out from reading how much medical/legal chit chat will be tolerated before a mod steps in.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Hollanda on January 28, 2012, 05:17:32 PM
I would say at a guess when 3 or 4 posters have posted lengthy monologues which tear away from the main point of the thread. I have seen warnings from Mods that if people do not get back to the point then the thread will be locked.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 28, 2012, 05:31:23 PM
That makes sense Hollanda...
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: HorseFreak on January 28, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
Maybe this has already been answered so please point me in the right direction if I'm being redundant.

What happens if the etiquette advice is tied up in legal/medical issues?  I have noticed when reading older posts that some posts get locked and others don't.  I haven't been figure out from reading how much medical/legal chit chat will be tolerated before a mod steps in.

Telling someone they should consider consulting a lawyer or doctor is OK. For example, "I would suggest having your doctor look at your toe because it could be serious." or "You should consult a lawyer because there might be a local law pertaining to how to handle fence payment with neighbors." Giving outright legal or medical advice is NOT ok, such as, "Your toe is green with polka dots on Tuesdays because your pancreas needs to be removed," is not OK. There's sometimes a fine line between OK and not OK and you can always ask a mod.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Solanna Dryden on January 28, 2012, 07:20:52 PM
I would say at a guess when 3 or 4 posters have posted lengthy monologues which tear away from the main point of the thread. I have seen warnings from Mods that if people do not get back to the point then the thread will be locked.

What about in the Off-Topic folder? For example, "Post your Favourite Animal"

Poster 1: I like dogs.
Poster 2: I like cats
Poster 3: Oh my goodness, I like dogs too! What kind of dogs do you like? Where did you get yours? What kind of food do you feed them?
Poster 4: I think horses are pretty neat.
Poster 1: [quote poster 2] I have cockapoos and I love them! I got them from Cockapoos R' Us! I feed them Super Amazing Dog Food!
Poster 5: Oh I love Super Amazing Dog Food! But it's so expensive!
Poster 6: Hey where my axolotl fans be at?
Poster 1: Oh you should try Costco for Super Amazing Dog Food! You can get it for 2.99 a pound!
Posters 2, 4, and 6: ... (and the dog conversation continues on)

hehe...I had too much fun with that  ;D
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Hollanda on January 29, 2012, 03:07:54 AM
It is frustrating when you really want an answer to your question and people just veer off topic. I did actually leave eHell when I was pregnant because I felt intimidated (see Complete Silence: "Since When Has Being Pregnant Been Disgusting?")I was simply frustrated with trying to get my point across. In the end I gave up, forgetting what my point even was.  It hurt me, the number of people who hinted that I was a Pregzilla or SS wanted to be treated "different". I didn't. I just wanted common courtesy, the same as I show others. Anyway. It got sorted, I just don't want this to happen again. :(
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: RebeccainGA on December 24, 2012, 09:24:38 AM
I have noticed a couple of otherwise normal folks (or at least people that have multiple hundred posts, so I'd assume they have been playing by the rules for a while) that have gone absolutely screechy angry horrible in the last few weeks. Has anyone else noticed this? Posts that were pretty much all agreeing with the OP, then one that is just 'if you do that you'd be better off killing puppies' sort of reactions.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: blue2000 on December 24, 2012, 12:08:36 PM
I have noticed a couple of otherwise normal folks (or at least people that have multiple hundred posts, so I'd assume they have been playing by the rules for a while) that have gone absolutely screechy angry horrible in the last few weeks. Has anyone else noticed this? Posts that were pretty much all agreeing with the OP, then one that is just 'if you do that you'd be better off killing puppies' sort of reactions.

I haven't noticed any particular posters, but I have noticed an unusual number of threads that have gotten rather... bitter.  :-\ Normally we can disagree with each other and not get quite so personal about it.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: RebeccainGA on December 24, 2012, 12:16:10 PM
I haven't noticed any particular posters, but I have noticed an unusual number of threads that have gotten rather... bitter.  :-\ Normally we can disagree with each other and not get quite so personal about it.

I'm at least glad I'm not the only one that's noticed it - some people have gotten really nasty with folks for minor things. Maybe it's just holiday stress?
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: blue2000 on December 24, 2012, 12:48:59 PM
I haven't noticed any particular posters, but I have noticed an unusual number of threads that have gotten rather... bitter.  :-\ Normally we can disagree with each other and not get quite so personal about it.

I'm at least glad I'm not the only one that's noticed it - some people have gotten really nasty with folks for minor things. Maybe it's just holiday stress?

I hope so!
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: rashea on December 26, 2012, 08:59:18 AM
I haven't noticed any particular posters, but I have noticed an unusual number of threads that have gotten rather... bitter.  :-\ Normally we can disagree with each other and not get quite so personal about it.

I'm at least glad I'm not the only one that's noticed it - some people have gotten really nasty with folks for minor things. Maybe it's just holiday stress?

I hope so!

It's cyclical. Things go great for a while, and then there's a bit of everyone being grouchy at the same time. Usually it settles down pretty quickly (and holiday stress could be part of it, sometimes it's just a topic that comes up that riles people). Sometimes it doesn't settle, and that's when we go through dark times where people end up banned or gagged for a while.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Itza on January 06, 2013, 04:19:07 AM
I don't like seeing dismissiveness in responses.

Such as, "I can't see what your problem is," or "I don't know why this is bothering you so much."

Really?

Well, if you can't, don't reply and move over so someone else who can see the OPs POV objectively can reply.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Giggity on January 06, 2013, 08:17:01 AM
Perspective helps.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: BabylonSister on January 06, 2013, 08:45:59 AM
I don't like seeing dismissiveness in responses.

Such as, "I can't see what your problem is," or "I don't know why this is bothering you so much."

Really?

Well, if you can't, don't reply and move over so someone else who can see the OPs POV objectively can reply.


I agree with Hotdish.  This is not a support forum, it's a discussion forum.  You're not just going to get replies from people who see things from your POV -- and that's a good thing. I have seen many a thread where the OP started out very irritated and offended by a situation, and other posters were able to explain that it sounded like a misunderstanding, or that it was a common, accepted situation that shouldn't let the OP become upset.



Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Giggity on January 06, 2013, 10:27:05 AM
OTOH there's the post that starts with a certain level of detail, and then as subsequent posters say things like, "Yeah, I think you might have overreacted," the situation magically changes to explain why it WASN'T AN OVERREACTION IT WAS WORSE THAN HITLER. I am generally suspicious of those.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Lynn2000 on January 07, 2013, 10:50:58 AM
I don't like seeing dismissiveness in responses.

Such as, "I can't see what your problem is," or "I don't know why this is bothering you so much."

Really?

Well, if you can't, don't reply and move over so someone else who can see the OPs POV objectively can reply.

I do think perspective helps, and is a very valuable part of this forum. However, I think replies that say only, "I don't know why this is bothering you so much," can feel very dismissive, especially if they're very early on in the thread. To me this kind of reads as, "I can't imagine any legitimate reason for this to bother you, so you're being silly."

I would rather someone replied, "I don't understand why this bothers you. Can you elaborate on that? Do you think your mom [for example] is acting maliciously when she does this, or is she just clueless? Is this a pattern with her? I'm afraid I'm just not seeing why this single incident has upset you." To me this reads as, "I can believe you have a legitimate complaint and I want to help you with it, but you need to give me more information and context."

To me, the former is not very helpful or useful; whereas the latter is. I imagine someone who posts the former finding the entire thread silly, so they never come back and read it again, and then I have to ask--why did you bother to post in it?

Now granted, sometimes the OP will literally ask, "Would this bother anyone?" And then I think it's fine for someone to post, "No, it wouldn't bother me at all," and only that, because they're answering the OP's question, and often the OP in that case is trying to informally figure out whether the thing bothers "a lot" of people or not. But if someone says, "This bothers me, what can I do about it?" I don't think answering, "It shouldn't bother you," and only that, is very helpful.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 19, 2013, 04:44:13 PM
I’ve noticed a trend with some posters to make their initial post excruciatingly long, more background than would ever be necessary, and lots of details about relationships and/or family issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with etiquette.

Okay, some background and maybe brief description of people involved is fine.  But I think sometimes people are using the forum to try to work out issues that are better addressed in therapy or at least maybe in a different type of forum.

What I don’t like is at the end of an extremely lengthy post (or several posts) they will try to cover themselves by asking an etiquette question such as “Was I rude?” “Am I wrong?” or “How could I have handled it better?”  (Their post re: an actual etiquette issue could have been condensed to a few short paragraphs vs. the manuscript they actually posted.)

Sometimes these threads are reported and locked by mods, but sometimes they aren’t.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: DottyG on February 19, 2013, 04:49:47 PM
You say that they're reported, but I wanted to ask if you're reporting them when you see them?  (Not saying you aren't - I'm asking seriously, not snarkily.)

I agree that we have some therapy-seekers here.  But I think we need to make sure that we're helping the mods see that.  And, when you do report it, make sure you're explaining why (that you feel this person would benefit more from a therapy site rather than an etiquette one).  Somewhere in here, there's a thread by WarDoc about how to best help the mods when a thread/post is reported.  I remember that was one of the things he said.

Edited to put in a missing punctuation item
 
 
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 19, 2013, 04:51:59 PM
DottyG - yes, I am, and I'm familiar with the procedure.  :)
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: DottyG on February 19, 2013, 04:54:13 PM
Wasn't trying to make you angry.  I started out replying to you and then kind of drifted off into a more generic PSA to whoever else might see it and didn't know (we have some newer people here that I wasn't sure had seen his post).  I didn't mean to imply that you weren't doing it right.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: DottyG on February 19, 2013, 04:59:33 PM
Ah.  Found it.  Wasn't as hard as I'd thought - it was stickied in this very forum!

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=68532.0 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=68532.0)

I knew I remembered reading it somewhere! :D
 
 
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 19, 2013, 05:01:23 PM
Wasn't trying to make you angry.  I started out replying to you and then kind of drifted off into a more generic PSA to whoever else might see it and didn't know (we have some newer people here that I wasn't sure had seen his post).  I didn't mean to imply that you weren't doing it right.

Oh, no offense taken at all - really.

I try to report when I see such a thread, but sometimes after reading halfway thru I kind of shake my head and move on.  (There may be an etiquette issue which I just didn't see.)

I also realize that mods are busy, or they don't always see a problem with the thread.  (shrug)

Just something I wanted to mention because I'm noticing what appears to be an increase in therapy-seekers.  I'm hoping it's temporary.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: DottyG on February 19, 2013, 05:02:30 PM
Quote
I'm noticing what appears to be an increase in therapy-seekers

Yeah.  I've noticed that, too.

I'm glad people feel comfortable in telling us all kinds of things here, but sometimes I think we're at a loss as to how to best help them.
 
And, like you (if I understand your post correctly), I'm a little annoyed with we get a long story to have an "oh, yeah!  I have to make this look like an etiquette issue.  Ummmmmm....oh, I know.  I'll put a "was I rude" at the end of it!  That'll cover me" sentence at the end.  You're not fooling anyone! ;)  That's not an actual etiquette issue there!
 

 
 
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: NotTheNarcissist on February 19, 2013, 05:05:49 PM
I haven't noticed any particular posters, but I have noticed an unusual number of threads that have gotten rather... bitter.  :-\ Normally we can disagree with each other and not get quite so personal about it.

I'm at least glad I'm not the only one that's noticed it - some people have gotten really nasty with folks for minor things. Maybe it's just holiday stress?

I hope so!

It's cyclical. Things go great for a while, and then there's a bit of everyone being grouchy at the same time. Usually it settles down pretty quickly (and holiday stress could be part of it, sometimes it's just a topic that comes up that riles people). Sometimes it doesn't settle, and that's when we go through dark times where people end up banned or gagged for a while.

I didn't realize this was cyclical. Yes I noticed that people got rather critical around the holidays. And I have learned to ignore certain responses. We are here to help one another, not tear each other down. I quit posting when I see accusing posts. Now I am getting my feet wet slowly getting back into ehell.

My main challenge is that things I say are taken out of context or incorrect assumptions are made about what I typed. If I have to write a response that looks like "war & peace" to cover every possible angle, I'm in trouble. I am always just trying to help the other person. So when my response is taken out of context & I now become the subject of criticism the fun of being on ehell ends. Especially when an assumption is incorrect.

So for now, for me, less is more. That is why my answers are usually fairly short. I am not looking for an argument & there have been some responses that clearly were trying to start one. I make note of that user & in the future I take their posts with a grain of salt.

Glad to know about the cycle & will keep in mind in the future.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 19, 2013, 05:12:23 PM
DottyG:

Quote
And, like you (if I understand your post correctly), I'm a little annoyed with we get a long story to have an "oh, yeah!  I have to make this look like an etiquette issue.  Ummmmmm....oh, I know.  I'll put a "was I rude" at the end of it!  That'll cover me" sentence at the end.  You're not fooling anyone!   That's not an actual etiquette issue there!

EXACTLY!!   ;)  Your wording is better than mine was.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: ladyknight1 on February 19, 2013, 06:55:11 PM
I had replied to a post about topic A, saying that I could identify with a similar situation, topic B.

Immediately, another poster replied to my post in a challenging way. I ended up sending a pm to the OP, just to make sure I wasn't being misunderstood or out of line. I am not one for stirring the pot.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Allyson on February 20, 2013, 01:55:00 AM
I guess this would count as really mild trolling because the stories aren't always dramatic, though they sometimes are. What about someone who seems to have a *lot* of the same kind of issue, and always with a type of person/situation they are kind of 'against'? If someone came across like they really were not fans of elephants, say. And they seem to run into really, an inordinate amount of issues involving elephants in some way, and often really extreme ones. It's sometimes hard not to say 'wow, you sure run into a lot of rude elephants..' Instead of these stories seeming meant to get attention or sympathy, they seem more about trying to make an anti-elephant point. I generally just ignore these posts because taken individually they're fine, though.

(Sorry for my silly example, I couldn't think of a more sensible one!)
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: squeakers on February 20, 2013, 07:00:10 AM
While oceanus has a point in that we are not a therapy group.. long OPs are almost a necessity in that if they later add the background people get accused of trying to tip people one way or another or are told "Oh, well, if that had been in the OP I would have said "blah, blah, blah, instead".  It can be hard to tell where to end the background sometimes.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Just Lori on February 20, 2013, 07:29:20 AM
I guess this would count as really mild trolling because the stories aren't always dramatic, though they sometimes are. What about someone who seems to have a *lot* of the same kind of issue, and always with a type of person/situation they are kind of 'against'? If someone came across like they really were not fans of elephants, say. And they seem to run into really, an inordinate amount of issues involving elephants in some way, and often really extreme ones. It's sometimes hard not to say 'wow, you sure run into a lot of rude elephants..' Instead of these stories seeming meant to get attention or sympathy, they seem more about trying to make an anti-elephant point. I generally just ignore these posts because taken individually they're fine, though.

(Sorry for my silly example, I couldn't think of a more sensible one!)

It's difficult, but I do believe it's best to ignore those.  I figure this is one of three things:

1.  The poster meets an inordinately high amount of rude elephants.
2.  The poster is doing something rude herself, causing the elephants to be rude in return.
3.  The poster is an elephant-hating troll who is here to stir up trouble.

I personally hate when I read those threads and I see all of the sympathetic comments about the horrible rude elephants.  I want to shout at the computer, "She's playing us!  She's playing us all!  Quit feeding her!"  But then I realize I'd be yelling at a computer. :)

The mods are quite adept at figuring out the No. 3 types.  Give it time and they usually trip up themselves.

ETA that sometimes I play my own little game.  If someone posts a thread about elephants, I will bet myself that Elephant Poster will weigh in within 10 responses, or something like that.  I often win that bet.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Venus193 on February 20, 2013, 08:16:51 AM
I guess this would count as really mild trolling because the stories aren't always dramatic, though they sometimes are. What about someone who seems to have a *lot* of the same kind of issue, and always with a type of person/situation they are kind of 'against'? If someone came across like they really were not fans of elephants, say. And they seem to run into really, an inordinate amount of issues involving elephants in some way, and often really extreme ones. It's sometimes hard not to say 'wow, you sure run into a lot of rude elephants..' Instead of these stories seeming meant to get attention or sympathy, they seem more about trying to make an anti-elephant point. I generally just ignore these posts because taken individually they're fine, though.

(Sorry for my silly example, I couldn't think of a more sensible one!)

It's difficult, but I do believe it's best to ignore those.  I figure this is one of three things:

1.  The poster meets an inordinately high amount of rude elephants.
2.  The poster is doing something rude herself, causing the elephants to be rude in return.
3.  The poster is an elephant-hating troll who is here to stir up trouble.

I personally hate when I read those threads and I see all of the sympathetic comments about the horrible rude elephants.  I want to shout at the computer, "She's playing us!  She's playing us all!  Quit feeding her!"  But then I realize I'd be yelling at a computer. :)

The mods are quite adept at figuring out the No. 3 types.  Give it time and they usually trip up themselves.

ETA that sometimes I play my own little game.  If someone posts a thread about elephants, I will bet myself that Elephant Poster will weigh in within 10 responses, or something like that.  I often win that bet.

I disagree here.  People who have the same problem consistently are often unconsciously attracting it due to issues of their own, don't understand or are afraid to implement our advice, and/or the problem is bigger than etiquette and can't be fixed by our advice or suggestions.

Case in point: My friend Blanche has historically had a lot of toxic bosses, mostly women.  She once said "I must have the word DOORMAT displayed on my forehead."  I agree with this statement because she is the daughter of a narcissistic mother whom she couldn't please and whose criticism was unending.  She has re-enacted this with every female boss she has had her entire life.  I told her she needed to stop accepting the unreasonable criticism, work on her self-esteem, and learn to be assertive rather than passive/aggressive.  She has yet to learn this and I don't think her therapist (whom she only sees every other week) has helped much.   

These issues are beyond the scope of this forum, but often help to explain identifiable rude behavior.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Zilla on February 20, 2013, 08:54:50 AM
With overly long long LONG posts (yes I know what you are talking about! (  :P  )  My eyes tend to glaze over, I just skip them.  It isn't worth the strain on my brain either.  Some people are just long winded and I leave it at that.  You can report of course, but in the end I think skipping is best.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: rose red on February 20, 2013, 09:39:29 AM
With overly long long LONG posts (yes I know what you are talking about! (  :P  )  My eyes tend to glaze over, I just skip them.  It isn't worth the strain on my brain either.  Some people are just long winded and I leave it at that.  You can report of course, but in the end I think skipping is best.

Me too.  Even with interesting topics, I'm just not able to read those posts.  Sometimes, I skip to the responses to try to get the gist of the issue.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Amava on February 20, 2013, 09:52:23 AM
What Venus says about those elephants is true.
And it's not just that some people attract more elephants.
It's also that someone who has issues with elephants, will notice them more.

If I hear an elephant trumpeting in my ear, I might be all like "Huh. Rude loud beast. Whatever."
But to someone who dislikes elephants strongly, or is scared of them, the same trumpeting will become the "event of the day" or even of the week. They'll be festering about it "Can't people control their darn elephants anymore", or "What if the elephant had stepped on me" or "Back in my grandmother's days, elephants were so much better behaved and would never have trumpeted so loudly in public".
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Zilla on February 20, 2013, 10:28:27 AM
With overly long long LONG posts (yes I know what you are talking about! (  :P  )  My eyes tend to glaze over, I just skip them.  It isn't worth the strain on my brain either.  Some people are just long winded and I leave it at that.  You can report of course, but in the end I think skipping is best.

Me too.  Even with interesting topics, I'm just not able to read those posts.  Sometimes, I skip to the responses to try to get the gist of the issue.


I am always happy when another poster says, "So in a nutshell..." and recaps their entire post and question in a few sentences.  And I myself have done the same.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: DottyG on February 20, 2013, 11:11:31 AM
Quote
With overly long long LONG posts (yes I know what you are talking about! (    )  My eyes tend to glaze over, I just skip them.

Not what you're talking about, but you reminded me of something.  If you're (generic) going to post a long post, please put in some paragraphs and break the story up into chunks for us.  The long stories are a little bit better if they're at least readable.  When the whole post is mushed together, my eyes glaze over - and I go on to another post.

It might have been the most interesting story in the world, but if the readers have to wade through it, it's probably either not getting read by many people or the ones who are reading it are missing quite a bit of info just because it was hard to get through.

The Enter/Return button is there.  Use it!

Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Zilla on February 20, 2013, 11:50:43 AM
Quote
With overly long long LONG posts (yes I know what you are talking about! (    )  My eyes tend to glaze over, I just skip them.

Not what you're talking about, but you reminded me of something.  If you're (generic) going to post a long post, please put in some paragraphs and break the story up into chunks for us.  The long stories are a little bit better if they're at least readable.  When the whole post is mushed together, my eyes glaze over - and I go on to another post.

It might have been the most interesting story in the world, but if the readers have to wade through it, it's probably either not getting read by many people or the ones who are reading it are missing quite a bit of info just because it was hard to get through.

The Enter/Return button is there.  Use it!


I have a gltich in this forum that for some reason all my spaces are scrunched together.  I have yet to discover the cause.  Some others might have the same issue.  If not a friendly request (which I have seen numerous times) for paragraph breaks have been posted after a solid wall of text.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: PurpleFrog on February 20, 2013, 02:26:22 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed a shift in focus from etiquette questions to more general posts with a qualifier, I'm spending more and more timr in the coffee break folder, I know what to expect there. I really don't report as I see many other more established posters responding and assume my radar is off, I shall trust my own judgementmore in ffuture.

I'm also having a thourghly lovley time inventing elephant etiquette questions. Thank you.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 20, 2013, 02:51:53 PM
With overly long long LONG posts (yes I know what you are talking about! (  :P  )  My eyes tend to glaze over, I just skip them.  It isn't worth the strain on my brain either.  Some people are just long winded and I leave it at that.  You can report of course, but in the end I think skipping is best.

Yes, I've had my share of eye glazing  ;) , and done quite a bit of scrolling.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Fleur on February 20, 2013, 03:00:53 PM


I have noticed, though, that there is a bit of a double standard on this forum. Let's just say that people who post about dolphins are allowed more leeway than those that post about elephants. Nothing against dolphins, but there seems to be less strict enforcement of the 'don't stray off topic' rule when the post is about them.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: LazyDaisy on February 20, 2013, 03:57:03 PM
There may be a history of trouble surrounding posts about elephants that makes the mods more apt to jump in quickly. To me it's not a double standard to learn from the past. In addition to the topics never to discuss listed in the Forum Rules, there is also a list of topics that have gotten heated in the past and so should be handled carefully: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=34220.0 "Hot Topics that you need to be aware of"

I'm not sure you should compare dolphins to elephants; only elephants to elephants. I would understand thinking there is a double standard if one thread about elephants is allowed to run wild, but a second thread about elephants is locked immediately.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Bexx27 on February 20, 2013, 04:06:21 PM
There may be a history of trouble surrounding posts about elephants that makes the mods more apt to jump in quickly. To me it's not a double standard to learn from the past. In addition to the topics never to discuss listed in the Forum Rules, there is also a list of topics that have gotten heated in the past and so should be handled carefully: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=34220.0 "Hot Topics that you need to be aware of"

I'm not sure you should compare dolphins to elephants; only elephants to elephants. I would understand thinking there is a double standard if one thread about elephants is allowed to run wild, but a second thread about elephants is locked immediately.

Yes, and the point was not about elephants per se but about a particular poster's history of anti-elephant posts. If my own experience is that I very rarely see an elephant behaving rudely, I will suspect trolling if the same person posts every day about encountering rude elephants. An isolated rude elephant post from someone who doesn't frequently dwell on that topic wouldn't cause the same reaction.

There are some topics and/or opinions that aren't well-received here even if they're not against the rules, but that's a separate issue.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Lynn2000 on February 21, 2013, 04:03:27 PM
I've been consciously trying to report more threads to the mods... trying to be part of the solution and all that. It's almost never, "Holy smokes, I can't believe someone posted something so horribly out of bounds!" It's usually more like, "Um, I think things are getting a bit heated here, might want to keep an eye on it," or "I'm not really sure if this is right for this forum, maybe someone could look into it."

In other words, I don't think of reporting as me standing up and pointing at someone going, "They're doing something wrong! Stop them!" I think of it more like, I'm catching a mod's eye and kind of indicating a group they might want to take a closer look at. Then they can make their own determination about posting, locking, etc.. Sometimes I've reported things and nothing happened, so the mods clearly use their own judgment.

These things are probably obvious to some people. :) But, a while ago I read a post like this from someone else, which helped me to feel more comfortable about reporting threads. I think it bears repeating every once in a while.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Kiwichick on February 22, 2013, 02:06:12 AM
Reporting to mods really does work.

Just a couple of days ago someone posted some wildly inaccurate medical advice, complete with underlining to emphasise her point.  I reported it (and I suspect I wasn't the only one) the whole thread appears to have been deleted. I think that was appropriate in this case since that removes the chance of someone reading the advice and not seeing a moderation comment later in the thread.

I agree with Oceanus that there's been a real increase in non-etiquette related threads, I just report and move on to the next thread.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Scuba_Dog on February 22, 2013, 02:45:38 AM
Reporting to mods really does work.

Just a couple of days ago someone posted some wildly inaccurate medical advice, complete with underlining to emphasise her point.  I reported it (and I suspect I wasn't the only one) the whole thread appears to have been deleted. I think that was appropriate in this case since that removes the chance of someone reading the advice and not seeing a moderation comment later in the thread.

I agree with Oceanus that there's been a real increase in non-etiquette related threads, I just report and move on to the next thread.

I know the thread you're talking about.  I think I was the last to post in it and really hope that folks saw that post.  I was shocked to find that some people still thought it was correct to do such an old school and dangerous thing.

Aside from that - and, it's something i see as trolling - Something I notice more and more of here are certain people making a point to target specific posters.  It's like they have something against them and seem to have to pick every thing they post apart.  It's disturbing and sad to see.  I just can't help but ponder the frame of mind a person has to get so invested in upsetting a stranger - especially one who has done nothing to them.  Again, it's sad. I wish I wasn't seeing it happen here.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Kiwichick on February 22, 2013, 04:11:28 AM
You'll never get a group of diverse people getting along completely.

I don't think it's targeting or trolling so much, it's more people having different attitudes and outlooks and posting their position in opposition to others.  Although I agree there are certain posters who are guaranteed to disagree with specific posters, I think it's just a bit of 'oh there goes so and so again with her silly arguments, I'll oppose that view as usual.'. 

The opposite is also true, there's always posters who will support another posters view without fail too.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Scuba_Dog on February 22, 2013, 05:13:19 AM
You'll never get a group of diverse people getting along completely.

I don't think it's targeting or trolling so much, it's more people having different attitudes and outlooks and posting their position in opposition to others.  Although I agree there are certain posters who are guaranteed to disagree with specific posters, I think it's just a bit of 'oh there goes so and so again with her silly arguments, I'll oppose that view as usual.'. 

The opposite is also true, there's always posters who will support another posters view without fail too.

That may be the case sometimes - but not in the instance I'm talking about.  It's painfully obvious in this case.  And, again - just really pitiful and sad.  Not for the person targeted, they handle it well, but for those who do the trolling. 
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: NotTheNarcissist on February 26, 2013, 02:40:24 PM
I am trying to do a little soul searching about ehell. This thread has me thinking. In the past I have tried to keep comments etiquette-centric unless the thread was like "never shopping there again" or other clearly non-etiquette related sub-forums. I deviated at times if I was having a bad day or a certain subject & hence my emotions got the better of me. However, generally speaking I have made a conscious effort to keep comments mostly etiquette-related.

So in light of this particular thread I am posting in now about various issues with recent posters ...I thought, ok, down to business, I will double my efforts to keep my responses etiquette-related, even loosely etiquette-related. Not strict, just loose.

So in the office sub-forum, I saw a thread, no questions were asked, it was someone relaying a negative experience in the office. No "how do i respond?" or "This person was rude, and I didn't handle it well. How could I handle this better next time?"

I agreed that the person was rude and asked simply is there an etiquette question? I was told "Agreed. There doesn't need to be an etiquette question. E-Hell is founded on the concept of relaying rude circumstances."

Now, i am confused, and sincerely from my heart I am asking for clarification & help to understand. Where is the line? Honestly, if people are coming here to vent their frustrations when there are vast numbers of forums better suited for counseling (& esp career advice).... well, I don't know how to react to that. Is it a true statement that "there doesn't need to be an etiquette question" and "relaying rude circumstances" is sufficient to post... ?

Truth be told, I am changing in that my very first post here relayed rude circumstances & I don't think I asked an etiquette question. The post is gone now, when I click "view posts" it is too old I guess.  If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would have asked questions... "how to respond?" and so forth. That fact makes me think that some newcomers love to jump in but haven't formulated their expectations as to what they truly want from ehell so the first several posts may be rambling & venting.  Less about etiquette, more justifying their feelings. I am guilty of this like I mentioned.

Speaking of rambling, sorry, I didn't mean to.  I guess this means a lot to me. :-\ Bottom line question: Is it true there doesn't need to be an etiquette question per se? Relaying a historical story to prove how rude a person is is sufficient? If the answer is 'yes' is there a line?

TIA.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Moray on February 26, 2013, 02:55:38 PM
I often wonder about the same thing, NotTheNarcissist. I think we do our best work, as a forum, when we're actually trying to give etiquette advice, but many threads lately do seem to be either seeking validation (sometimes with a one-upmanship element) or trying to deal with value judgements and/or family therapy rather than etiquette.

There's a place for the story sharing, but I understood it to be the Coffeebreak folder.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: NyaChan on February 26, 2013, 02:57:07 PM
Actually, I had the same response as you did to that thread.  Seemed like a vent to me, but then I figured the implied purpose was probably to have ehellions discuss the nature and extent of the rudeness, how the workers could have handled it, and to share stories of similar rudeness.  Still, it can be hard to tell the difference between actual vents and stories told to open up discussion when some topics are let go, but others aren't.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Lynn2000 on February 26, 2013, 03:10:08 PM
I think the rule is that the OP shouldn't purely be a vent/rant. However, I think you can present a situation for general discussion, with an implicit or explicit question of, "What do you guys think?" instead of the question needing to be, "Was I rude? How should I handle this situation in the future?"

For example, I was recently at a workshop in which a participant was extremely rude to the presenter. I thought she handled his rudeness well. I think it would be okay for me to start a thread about this situation here, with the discussion being along the lines of, "Did she really handle it well? Was he actually rude? Has anyone else been in a similar situation, and how did you handle it?" I myself was just a witness to the event, and have no intention of being in either "active" role in the future, so it would be silly for me to contort things and add, "Was I rude? What should I do if something similar happens to me someday in the distant future?"

Note that if everyone is in agreement with me--that the guy was rude, and the presenter handled it well--it might not be a very long or interesting thread. But I don't think another poster could legitimately tell me, "You shouldn't be posting that, there's no question!"
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Moray on February 26, 2013, 03:19:57 PM
I think the rule is that the OP shouldn't purely be a vent/rant. However, I think you can present a situation for general discussion, with an implicit or explicit question of, "What do you guys think?" instead of the question needing to be, "Was I rude? How should I handle this situation in the future?"

For example, I was recently at a workshop in which a participant was extremely rude to the presenter. I thought she handled his rudeness well. I think it would be okay for me to start a thread about this situation here, with the discussion being along the lines of, "Did she really handle it well? Was he actually rude? Has anyone else been in a similar situation, and how did you handle it?" I myself was just a witness to the event, and have no intention of being in either "active" role in the future, so it would be silly for me to contort things and add, "Was I rude? What should I do if something similar happens to me someday in the distant future?"

Note that if everyone is in agreement with me--that the guy was rude, and the presenter handled it well--it might not be a very long or interesting thread. But I don't think another poster could legitimately tell me, "You shouldn't be posting that, there's no question!"

I don't think there would be any problem with you posting that. The bolded are all valid and appropriate questions that are relevant to the purpose of this site.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 26, 2013, 03:25:29 PM
Good points, Moray and NyaChan.

Regarding the “Time for a Coffee Break” section, I see that as more of a  place for relaxing, innocuous, informative, and enjoyable threads.  When I see threads there seeking family/relationship therapy, I tend to scroll and move on, no matter how they are camouflaged.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Fleur on February 26, 2013, 03:30:01 PM
Good points, Moray and NyaChan.

Regarding the “Time for a Coffee Break” section, I see that as more of a  place for relaxing, innocuous, informative, and enjoyable threads.  When I see threads there seeking family/relationship therapy, I tend to scroll and move on, no matter how they are camouflaged.

I don't know if I've asked this before, but I've certainly wondered before-what about the Hugs folder? I recently had a thread locked on there (without a Mod comment) which I thought was fairly innocuous, although I suppose it could have been seen as asking for theraputic advice, even though that wasn't my intention. I suppose it sometimes depends on which moderator sees a thread? I am not clear as to the rules for the Hugs folder and would appreciate clarification.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: NotTheNarcissist on February 26, 2013, 03:34:46 PM
But I don't think another poster could legitimately tell me, "You shouldn't be posting that, there's no question!"

This is important to me. I didn't mean to come across as pompous in my post that I referred to, but I know I did. That bothers me & I will be cautious of that going forward. Again, I'm still soul searching. My own perspective and expectations are shifting. Appreciate being able to talk this out without getting blasted.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Lynn2000 on February 26, 2013, 03:48:54 PM
But I don't think another poster could legitimately tell me, "You shouldn't be posting that, there's no question!"

This is important to me. I didn't mean to come across as pompous in my post that I referred to, but I know I did. That bothers me & I will be cautious of that going forward. Again, I'm still soul searching. My own perspective and expectations are shifting. Appreciate being able to talk this out without getting blasted.

Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to chide you with that quote or anything. :) I just meant that I felt my example situation would fit within the scope of the forum, even though it was a bit more abstract than a "Was I rude?" situation. But I don't see any problem with politely asking for clarification of the OP's point, if it's not readily apparent.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Beyond The Veil on February 26, 2013, 04:06:30 PM
Actually, I had the same response as you did to that thread.  Seemed like a vent to me, but then I figured the implied purpose was probably to have ehellions discuss the nature and extent of the rudeness, how the workers could have handled it, and to share stories of similar rudeness.  Still, it can be hard to tell the difference between actual vents and stories told to open up discussion when some topics are let go, but others aren't.

I was the person who stated  "Agreed. There doesn't need to be an etiquette question. E-Hell is founded on the concept of relaying rude circumstances."

From my perspective, it was simply a post detailing a happenstance. Like Evil Ducky (I believe that's correct) used to tell stories about her thoughtless and rude brother-in-law. Or how we came about E-Hell inclusive memes such as Racist Bagels, Dresser Queen, et cetera. It didn't look like a vent from my perspective. I think that for me to say that, it probably didn't ping on my radar as a vent at all. In fact, here is the thread in question. (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=125137.msg2895188#msg2895188) It's short, succinct, and I don't really see any angry flailing you usually find around vent threads. There are examples of vent threads that have been closed by moderators in the past that should give a real clear example to help out!
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Moray on February 26, 2013, 04:11:24 PM
There wasn't any flailing in that thread, but it gave me pause. I really wasn't sure what the poster wanted. If they'd tacked on "What's the most outrageous rudeness you've ever seen at work?" or "In retrospect, how should I have handled it?" then it might have been moved to Coffeebreak or stayed in All in a Day's Work, but we would have known what the OP wanted.

Instead, my thoughts were more like "Okaaay. Thanks for sharing?"
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: rose red on February 26, 2013, 04:21:28 PM
I've also noticed that when I first discovered Ehell, there were lots of stories about etiquette or rudeness.  General stories in the Life folder, work stories in the Work folder, etc.  Now it seems every story must have a question. 

I, too, find it both funny and annoying when the question seems tacked on.  Like if someone post "A big creepy guy kicked my grandma and shot my dog.  I yelled at him and used curse words.  Was I rude?"
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: NotTheNarcissist on February 26, 2013, 04:29:28 PM
I need clarification.

Someone posts a story without a question. Although I fully understand the story, I don't understand what they need from me.

So I ask, what do you need from me? General rambling thoughts? Etiquette advice?

If I don't know what they are looking for, how can I help them in the best way I know how? It's like there's a assumption everyone is on the same page, but that's not very accurate.

I guess I should leave those posts alone & stick to ones I know what the person wants. I'm truly trying to help people.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Ceallach on February 26, 2013, 07:11:57 PM
If you "not sure what they need from you" then simply move on to another thread.   Perhaps it's simply a topic you don't have firsthand experience with or an opinion on, or one you simply feel isn't important enough - I often find that to be the case, and I just don't participate in those threads.

I personally find it distracting when posters derail a thread by questioning whether it should have been posted in the first place! If I see a topic that seems inappropriate I report it and move on.  If the mods think its fine they'll let it stay open and it can continue without me interrupting. If not, they'll deal with the problem.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: C0mputerGeek on February 27, 2013, 12:53:14 AM
So in the office sub-forum, I saw a thread, no questions were asked, it was someone relaying a negative experience in the office. No "how do i respond?" or "This person was rude, and I didn't handle it well. How could I handle this better next time?"

I agreed that the person was rude and asked simply is there an etiquette question? I was told "Agreed. There doesn't need to be an etiquette question. E-Hell is founded on the concept of relaying rude circumstances."

Now, i am confused, and sincerely from my heart I am asking for clarification & help to understand. Where is the line? Honestly, if people are coming here to vent their frustrations when there are vast numbers of forums better suited for counseling (& esp career advice).... well, I don't know how to react to that. Is it a true statement that "there doesn't need to be an etiquette question" and "relaying rude circumstances" is sufficient to post... ?

Truth be told, I am changing in that my very first post here relayed rude circumstances & I don't think I asked an etiquette question. The post is gone now, when I click "view posts" it is too old I guess.  If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would have asked questions... "how to respond?" and so forth. That fact makes me think that some newcomers love to jump in but haven't formulated their expectations as to what they truly want from ehell so the first several posts may be rambling & venting.  Less about etiquette, more justifying their feelings. I am guilty of this like I mentioned.

Speaking of rambling, sorry, I didn't mean to.  I guess this means a lot to me. :-\ Bottom line question: Is it true there doesn't need to be an etiquette question per se? Relaying a historical story to prove how rude a person is is sufficient? If the answer is 'yes' is there a line?
This was hashed out a few years ago: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=83903.0

Unless things have changed, then I am under the impression that we are allowed to post stories without a question; the purpose of such a post would be to generate general discussion.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Beyond The Veil on February 27, 2013, 10:20:57 AM
So in the office sub-forum, I saw a thread, no questions were asked, it was someone relaying a negative experience in the office. No "how do i respond?" or "This person was rude, and I didn't handle it well. How could I handle this better next time?"

I agreed that the person was rude and asked simply is there an etiquette question? I was told "Agreed. There doesn't need to be an etiquette question. E-Hell is founded on the concept of relaying rude circumstances."

Now, i am confused, and sincerely from my heart I am asking for clarification & help to understand. Where is the line? Honestly, if people are coming here to vent their frustrations when there are vast numbers of forums better suited for counseling (& esp career advice).... well, I don't know how to react to that. Is it a true statement that "there doesn't need to be an etiquette question" and "relaying rude circumstances" is sufficient to post... ?

Truth be told, I am changing in that my very first post here relayed rude circumstances & I don't think I asked an etiquette question. The post is gone now, when I click "view posts" it is too old I guess.  If I could go back in time knowing what I know now, I would have asked questions... "how to respond?" and so forth. That fact makes me think that some newcomers love to jump in but haven't formulated their expectations as to what they truly want from ehell so the first several posts may be rambling & venting.  Less about etiquette, more justifying their feelings. I am guilty of this like I mentioned.

Speaking of rambling, sorry, I didn't mean to.  I guess this means a lot to me. :-\ Bottom line question: Is it true there doesn't need to be an etiquette question per se? Relaying a historical story to prove how rude a person is is sufficient? If the answer is 'yes' is there a line?
This was hashed out a few years ago: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=83903.0

Unless things have changed, then I am under the impression that we are allowed to post stories without a question; the purpose of such a post would be to generate general discussion.

Thank you SO MUCH! Same to you rose red, see, I've been operating under the same mindset as you two considering the issue has been brought up before and in the back of my mind I knew that telling stories to generation discussion had been deemed fine, I just didn't have the source handy. Like rose red, I remember the same time with the same happenings.  :)
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Giggity on February 27, 2013, 11:03:08 AM
I, too, find it both funny and annoying when the question seems tacked on.  Like if someone post "A big creepy guy kicked my grandma and shot my dog.  I yelled at him and used curse words.  Was I rude?"

See, I don't think those posts are funny. They're pure annoying, because they're fishing for validation.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 27, 2013, 11:11:19 AM
Quote
because they're fishing for validation.

And the answer is so obvious.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Ceallach on February 27, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
Quote
because they're fishing for validation.

And the answer is so obvious.

I understand your point, but that's subjective - the answer to a lot of "real" questions seems obvious to me too.  But not everybody will agree and that's the whole point of a discussion forum.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 27, 2013, 02:49:13 PM
Quote
because they're fishing for validation.

And the answer is so obvious.

I understand your point, but that's subjective - the answer to a lot of "real" questions seems obvious to me too.  But not everybody will agree and that's the whole point of a discussion forum.

No, not really subjective at all.  The answer to the example given by giggity and similar posts is very obvious.  I think most of us are aware of the purpose/point of a discussion forum.  But ehall is an etiquette forum, and masking a search for validation (or therapy) with a so-called etiquettte question isn't the purpose of the forum, as I understand it.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Beyond The Veil on February 27, 2013, 02:57:51 PM
It's honestly not my intention to backseat moderate, but I think these issues can be easily resolved through two very simple methods: Scritzy's Coke Rule in the rules thread, when a poster irritated or annoys you. Or using the Report button. Should help those out that don't think a thread is in the correct spot or is venty/looking for validation.  :D
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Lynn2000 on February 27, 2013, 03:03:22 PM
It's honestly not my intention to backseat moderate, but I think these issues can be easily resolved through two very simple methods: Scritzy's Coke Rule in the rules thread, when a poster irritated or annoys you. Or using the Report button. Should help those out that don't think a thread is in the correct spot or is venty/looking for validation.  :D

Gotta go with this myself. I've not ever seen the mods complain that people are reporting too much, and/or reporting stuff they shouldn't. It's almost always the opposite--we can't be everywhere at once, you guys need to tell us if you see something fishy. So, barring further official pronouncements, I would suggest people hit the report button on venty/validation posts, and see if that results in an overall reduction.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: DottyG on February 27, 2013, 03:31:06 PM
Actually, I'd like a mod to weigh in here on that.  Can we report too much?

Because, in the past, there have been (from my understanding) cases where people have been gagged for a period of time because they've reported "one too many times" and are now seen as troublemakers.  Granted, the stories of that I heard about are quite a while ago, but is it possible to overreport?

Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: oceanus on February 27, 2013, 03:41:13 PM
If "just report it to a mod" was the solution to everything, this thread would not be open for discussion.  ;)
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Beyond The Veil on February 27, 2013, 03:49:12 PM
If "just report it to a mod" was the solution to everything, this thread would not be open for discussion.  ;)

What do you believe would be the solution other than the procedures that the moderators have laid out in plain print? I am not really seeing a rash of anything untoward that is requiring anything else or drastic change, but this is purely my opinion.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: C0mputerGeek on February 27, 2013, 04:46:22 PM
When I see that a question that's been tacked on to then of a post, my assumption is the OP is trying to avoid any "is there a question here" responses that can derail a thread. It's perfectly okay to post something for the point of discussion (with no question). Yet, we still get a few people requesting that each OP contain a question.

Frankly, I think more people would do well to remember the general conduct rule about taking up offense too easily. I don't think people tacking on a question are fishing for validation any more than those who continue to demand a question from each OP are trying to be obnoxious.
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Ticia on February 27, 2013, 05:01:09 PM
The only time that I can recall someone getting in trouble for reporting posts was because that person was *very* condescending to the moderators in their reports. They were saying things like "I can't believe you let this person post at all." (Paraphrasing, as I can't remember the exact words.) and basically telling us that we sucked at our jobs. It was also very apparent that this person had a vendetta against certain posters. I, personally, don't mind the reports that just give a heads up. We can't keep an eye on all the threads all the times.

As for whether or not a post has an etiquette question... I am totally okay with posts that are just about a bad etiquette story. That's kind of what etiquette hell started out as, actually. Those threads do, however, tend to be short. People don't have much to add besides "Wow, that's crazy!"
Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: DottyG on February 27, 2013, 05:06:30 PM
Quote
I, personally, don't mind the reports that just give a heads up. We can't keep an eye on all the threads all the times.

Whew.  Thanks, Ticia!  There have been times in the past when I've been hesitant to flag a post/thread (even as just a "hey, there isn't really a problem here, but this thread may just need to be looked at occasionally, if you haven't seen it" type of thing) because I feel like I already flagged something that week and didn't want to get in trouble for overdoing.

Title: Re: Issues with Posters/Veracity/Suspected Trolling
Post by: Wordgeek on February 27, 2013, 05:37:20 PM
The person Ticia is referring to, if I recall correctly, reported pretty much everything they laid eyes on.  As in 30+ reports per day.  Please don't spam the mods.

It mostly boils down to use your good judgement.