Etiquette Hell

Forum Administration => Forum Announcements => Topic started by: DuBois on October 02, 2011, 12:23:23 PM

Title: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: DuBois on October 02, 2011, 12:23:23 PM


I don't know if this is just me, but I have noticed a mini-trend of people saying, 'I can't believe that the consensus is that it is rude to dance naked to bongo drums on a Tuesday afternoon. On a thread yesterday, everyone said that it was perfectly acceptable to tap dance in a neon tutu on Thursday mornings.'

The problem is, that, as in my example, a lot of the time the two situations bear a superficial resemblance to one another, but are not really all that similar, and certainly not identical. The other problem is that often, the 'consensus' on both threads has been arrived at by totally different posters anyway. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Steve on October 02, 2011, 12:26:31 PM
I think that, where some posters feel situations are very crucially different, other posters see more similarities.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: RingTailedLemur on October 02, 2011, 12:29:58 PM
Gahr, I know you are referring to me.  I wish you had spoken to me privately, instead of calling me out.

If a poster feels that a discussion from another thread is pertinent, as indeed I did, then I don't see anything wrong with mentioning it.  Threads do not exist in a vacuum.  There would only be a problem if issues from other threads were brought up to provoke conflict, which was certainly not my intention.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: DuBois on October 02, 2011, 12:32:30 PM
Gahr, I know you are referring to me.  I wish you had spoken to me privately, instead of calling me out.

If a poster feels that a discussion from another thread is pertinent, as indeed I did, then I don't see anything wrong with mentioning it.  Threads do not exist in a vacuum.  There would only be a problem if issues from other threads were brought up to provoke conflict, which was certainly not my intention.

Well, you were only the most recent example. As I say, I have seen it on other occasions, as well.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: kareng57 on October 02, 2011, 12:40:34 PM
But it's really not for you to declare how "similar" two situations can be.  It's all to do with perception.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning peoples' opinions from another thread.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: DuBois on October 02, 2011, 12:43:32 PM
But it's really not for you to declare how "similar" two situations can be.  It's all to do with perception.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning peoples' opinions from another thread.

It always seems to me to have an element of 'gotcha', as in 'I can't believe you think that, when yesterday you said this' as I say, when it is often different posters' opinions anyway, which was my second point. People can have different opinions on similar topics, anyway.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: wyozozo on October 02, 2011, 12:43:50 PM
I've done it when I've seen marked similarities.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: squeakers on October 02, 2011, 12:57:11 PM
The problem with this is.. 25 people pronounce their opinions on subject A yesterday, last week, last year. 22 felt one way, 3 felt another. When something similar comes up.. maybe only 4 of those people are in the thread and 35 new people have a different opinion either way.  There can never be a consensus on anything that has variables or shades of grey.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: RingTailedLemur on October 02, 2011, 12:57:31 PM
But it's really not for you to declare how "similar" two situations can be.  It's all to do with perception.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning peoples' opinions from another thread.

It always seems to me to have an element of 'gotcha', as in 'I can't believe you think that, when yesterday you said this' as I say, when it is often different posters' opinions anyway, which was my second point. People can have different opinions on similar topics, anyway.

I disagree that it is "always" the case.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2011, 01:02:41 PM
I don't know if I have ever done it, but I am curious about it also. Before it was mentioned in the other thread, I was wondering the same thing. The only difference that I could see is that one was fish and the other was cats.

So, if I had been the one to question it, it would have been because I was genuinely curious why there was a difference in opinion. 
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: wyozozo on October 02, 2011, 01:06:19 PM
The only major difference in the 2 threads I compared was adult and juvenile.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: DuBois on October 02, 2011, 01:07:34 PM
I don't know if I have ever done it, but I am curious about it also. Before it was mentioned in the other thread, I was wondering the same thing. The only difference that I could see is that one was fish and the other was cats.

So, if I had been the one to question it, it would have been because I was genuinely curious why there was a difference in opinion.

I feel that I should clarify that this wasn't really inspired by that thread, and certainly not by any particular poster: my post was triggered by that thread, I admit, but I have seen it on and off for a while.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Daffodil on October 02, 2011, 01:15:22 PM
I posted this in that thread as well but unless I have missed something, in the fish tank thread there was nothing about getting rid of pets in the OP. Just getting rid of the .. pet holding apparatus (?). So I didn't understand why one thread was brought in to the other. I read the OP twice, but it's still possible I missed where there were already fish in the tank. It was my understanding that the tank was in storage.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2011, 01:16:02 PM
I posted this in that thread as well but unless I have missed something, in the fish tank thread there was nothing about getting rid of pets in the OP. Just getting rid of the .. pet holding apparatus (?). So I didn't understand why one thread was brought in to the other. I read the OP twice, but it's still possible I missed where there were already fish in the tank. It was my understanding that the tank was in storage.

Post 13 the OP mentions keeping some of the fish in a smaller fishtank.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Surianne on October 02, 2011, 01:38:23 PM
I'm 100% with you on this, Gahr.  Drives me absolutely crazy for all the reasons you mentioned. 

I used to try to point out the differences in threads, explain that different posters might be involved, or note that claims a poster is making (e.g., if they say a thread had a "consensus" when it clearly didn't) but I learned that goes absolutely nowhere. 

I'm trying harder to just completely ignore a post that begins with "Well, in this other thread, posters agreed..." because replying just makes it worse and turns the *new* thread into a debate about what was actually said in the previous thread.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Shores on October 02, 2011, 01:55:04 PM
Unless it is done to specifically call a poster out, "Well, Gahr, is this you said this, but now you say this", I think it can actually be a good angle on the conversation. It allows the posters to identify the factors that make the two situations different (or similar) and analyze why they have different opinions.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: jalutaja on October 02, 2011, 02:13:39 PM
Unless it is done to specifically call a poster out, "Well, Gahr, is this you said this, but now you say this", I think it can actually be a good angle on the conversation. It allows the posters to identify the factors that make the two situations different (or similar) and analyze why they have different opinions.

+1

I also think that these can be honest attempts to understand and learning experiences.

To make an hypothetical example:

Jalutaja: "But, Shores, in previous thread you said the white shoes were OK by etiquette, but today you insist that they are not! I am confused."

Shores: "Dear Jalutaja, the previous threadhappened before the labor day and now it is past the labor day, so people following the Western upper class etiquette have packed away their white shoes."

Jalutaja: "Thank you for explaining it for me! I had completely forgotten the labor day rule!"
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: 567Kate on October 02, 2011, 02:40:15 PM
I think it can be useful sometimes. "OP, a similar thread came up last year, and you may find some of the responses useful."

I'll admit to being annoyed when it's used to back up one's point using a thread that's related, but not quite the same. "Well, on this other thread last month, everyone agreed that..." I get annoyed particularly when the person is trying to point out inconsistent responses (from the forum; not one person) when, as many of you have pointed out, the two threads might have completely different posters. We are not the etiquette Borg!
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Steve on October 02, 2011, 02:48:59 PM
what?! we are NOT Etiquette of Borg?
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: DuBois on October 02, 2011, 02:51:37 PM
I'm 100% with you on this, Gahr.  Drives me absolutely crazy for all the reasons you mentioned. 

I used to try to point out the differences in threads, explain that different posters might be involved, or note that claims a poster is making (e.g., if they say a thread had a "consensus" when it clearly didn't) but I learned that goes absolutely nowhere. 

I'm trying harder to just completely ignore a post that begins with "Well, in this other thread, posters agreed..." because replying just makes it worse and turns the *new* thread into a debate about what was actually said in the previous thread.

Oh, I'd forgotten that one! You're right, people sometimes talk about a 'consensus' when in fact the thread was quite divided, or there was a distinct and vocal minority.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Fluffy Cat on October 02, 2011, 03:36:14 PM
Unless it is done to specifically call a poster out, "Well, Gahr, is this you said this, but now you say this", I think it can actually be a good angle on the conversation. It allows the posters to identify the factors that make the two situations different (or similar) and analyze why they have different opinions.

I had this done to me once and it genuinely made me re-examine my position for a double standard.  It can be helpful.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: DuBois on October 02, 2011, 03:40:29 PM
Unless it is done to specifically call a poster out, "Well, Gahr, is this you said this, but now you say this", I think it can actually be a good angle on the conversation. It allows the posters to identify the factors that make the two situations different (or similar) and analyze why they have different opinions.

I had this done to me once and it genuinely made me re-examine my position for a double standard.  It can be helpful.
I suppose it can be, though I think it would be more likely to make me think that the person is trying to catch me out. I can't imagine remembering who said what to that extent, I don't think.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Lynn2000 on October 02, 2011, 04:37:41 PM
Interesting question. I've not really noticed this myself, perhaps because I don't really go back and read the "other threads" people link to. I'm way too lazy for that. :)

But, I think a good way to handle it, if one feels it's being "thrown" at them by another poster, would be to elucidate why they think the two threads are in fact different, and then let the other poster say why they think they're similar (or vice versa). One person might feel the differences are superficial, another might feel they're at the core of the issue, and that could be a way to give both people (and everyone reading it) a new perspective on the situation.

But, I admit it would be very frustrating at first, if the similarities or differences seem very self-evident to one person, or if they feel the debate between threads is distracting from the main issue.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: Fluffy Cat on October 02, 2011, 04:51:26 PM
Unless it is done to specifically call a poster out, "Well, Gahr, is this you said this, but now you say this", I think it can actually be a good angle on the conversation. It allows the posters to identify the factors that make the two situations different (or similar) and analyze why they have different opinions.

I had this done to me once and it genuinely made me re-examine my position for a double standard.  It can be helpful.
I suppose it can be, though I think it would be more likely to make me think that the person is trying to catch me out. I can't imagine remembering who said what to that extent, I don't think.

In my case, it wasn't specifically directed at me, but it was directed at my posts (and everyone else with the same perspective).  It was comparing a thread about messy toddler eating in public (I didn't like it) and a thread about dogs eating in a restaurant (I didn't mind at all).  It made me realize that I was unintentionally treating two similar situations (in most ways) differently based on my personal preferences rather than an objective standard.  It made me re-think my position.
Title: Re: Well, in THAT thread..............
Post by: furrcats on October 02, 2011, 06:05:20 PM
what?! we are NOT Etiquette of Borg?

You won the thread  ;D