Etiquette Hell

Forum Administration => Forum Announcements => Topic started by: LadyPekoe on October 14, 2011, 03:49:05 PM

Title: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyPekoe on October 14, 2011, 03:49:05 PM
I will tell you what my problem is--and this is based on EhellDame's post in a locked thread.

EHDame is busy.  The mods are busy.  That all makes perfect sense to me.  They only really have time to read what people complain about.  That also make amazing sense.  EHDame points out that the same people tend to bring things to her attention--that's my problem.

I'm going to preface this with I love EH.  I think it's been truly beneficial for me as a person.

I rarely report posts because they tend not to bother me.  I either debate or leave, I feel no need to complain most of the time.  I should be able to defend my point well without going crying to "mommy" if I have to or if everybody disagrees with me, maybe I'm the problem. 

But I suspect I can guess at least a couple of the constant "flaggers" and I find it annoying because:
1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

or

2.  they only report people who disagree with them.  Personally, I think these posters need to pull up their big boy/girl panties and move on with their day, but that's me.

It very much reminds me of the teacher's pet who is sticking her tongue out at people who they turn around.

So, my solution is going to be a steady increase in flagging the people who I think "get away with it".  I'm going to be proactive and help!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: DuBois on October 14, 2011, 03:52:57 PM


I'll join you. I'd like to add that I too have reported a couple of people who get away with a lot, to no avail. These accusations of favoritism sure don't come out of thin air.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Larrabee on October 14, 2011, 03:53:25 PM
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyPekoe on October 14, 2011, 04:01:08 PM
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyL on October 14, 2011, 04:02:47 PM
EHDame points out that the same people tend to bring things to her attention--that's my problem.

I should be able to defend my point well without going crying to "mommy" if I have to or if everybody disagrees with me, maybe I'm the problem. 

But I suspect I can guess at least a couple of the constant "flaggers" and I find it annoying because:
1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

or

2.  they only report people who disagree with them.  Personally, I think these posters need to pull up their big boy/girl panties and move on with their day, but that's me.

It very much reminds me of the teacher's pet who is sticking her tongue out at people who they turn around.

So, my solution is going to be a steady increase in flagging the people who I think "get away with it".  I'm going to be proactive and help!

Wait, so you are going to guess who the frequent reporters are and report them based on that guessing? I'm confused. I report posts pretty regularly (probably 3 a week on average) and often they're in threads I haven't even participated in. I have no motive other than I feel the mods should know about a poster who is crossing a line with tone or content. Often I will post and say "hey, this will get locked if this legal/medical discussion continues" before reporting, then people don't listen and I report them, and the mods lock the thread. There may be people who use reporting to skew the mods image of them but I can't imagine paying close enough attention to people's posting habits to infer that, and I'm still not clear how one actually would.

Also, if the mods read the post that was reported it should be clear if there is snarky or inappropriate content, or if it's just malicious reporting based on disagreement.

ETA: It looks like the mods are developing a policy to deal with this very issue:

With the upgrade to the forum came some pretty sophisticated moderation tools.  We've been experimenting with one for a few months now and a few people have been the test subjects.  I think we're about ready to roll it out.   It's a warning system that assigns a value per warning and then keeps track of how many warnings have been given.   Example:  You might get warned 4 times for snarky behavior.  When the poster reaches the limit of warnings pre-determined to trigger banning or gag, the software automatically bans or gags.   It automates the process of remembering who got warned and who needs to be whereas previously we had to rely on memory  (Did someone warn that member?  How many times?  can't remember....).   It removes a lot of subjectivity inherent to moderation by humans but I can predict that some people will not like the mechanical "feel" of this new feature.   But it should reassure people that even if someone is being snarky, they cannot be snarky indefinitely and the warnings give some benefit of the doubt that the person was simply having a bad day but has been alerted to the fact that they cannot act this way regardless of how bad their day was.

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Larrabee on October 14, 2011, 04:09:09 PM
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?

Also, I'm wiling to bet that the moderators who are receiving constant 'tattle' reports are as annoyed by it as you are, perhaps even more so!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Red1979 on October 14, 2011, 04:11:46 PM
I'm with LadyPekoe. 

I tend to be very lenient when it comes to reporting things (although I have sent reports to  mods), and I think I've been remiss.  There are some posters I see that are constantly behaving in a snarky way and many I think who abuse this forum to an extent.  From now on, I'm going to report those posts.   It sounds like the mods could use a heads up and I think it will make this forum a better place if the habitual offenders were properly warned/gagged/banned.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Shores on October 14, 2011, 04:13:12 PM
I have no idea who's reporting and why unless I'm told that a report did or will happen. And to be honest, I don't care who is reporting; I assume that if I need to know, I will (either by contact or thread deletion).

That being said, as LadyPekoe stated, the mods have said a number of times that the problems and skewed moderation that people have been discussing has arisen because people aren't reporting. So the solution seems to be, as LadyPekoe stated, that the only way to correct the skew is that those who DO report, report less OR those who tend to let things go and DON'T report, report more. Perhaps if those that tend to be more easy-going, report the posts, the instigators will be reprimanded instead of those that are just provoked by them. I think some long-time members don't get reported as often as they should and maybe this will be a wake-up call. If something bothers you or you think it's mean/out of bounds/inappropriate or just doesn't contribute to the thread, report it. And let's see if the skew gets back on track.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?
It HAS been stated by a mod that they were so busy (understandably, real life comes first) at least once that they only looked at and responded to the one reported post and did not read further back to see what had inspired it and whether anyone else in that thread was also in need of reprimanding. That makes it clear that every single post needs to be posted to ensure that the mods are able to see all angles of a thread.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Bibliophile on October 14, 2011, 04:14:25 PM
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?

Also, I'm wiling to bet that the moderators who are receiving constant 'tattle' reports are as annoyed by it as you are, perhaps even more so!

Actually, from Ehelldame's post, they seem to prefer to get the mod report rather than a poster calling out in the thread http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105067.msg2536580#msg2536580 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105067.msg2536580#msg2536580)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Larrabee on October 14, 2011, 04:14:44 PM
So we should all be reporting more or less?  The complaint seemed to be about posters who report constantly being 'teacher's pets', is it a case of if you can't beat 'em join 'em?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Larrabee on October 14, 2011, 04:15:35 PM
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?

Also, I'm wiling to bet that the moderators who are receiving constant 'tattle' reports are as annoyed by it as you are, perhaps even more so!

Actually, from Ehelldame's post, they seem to prefer to get the mod report rather than a poster calling out in the thread http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105067.msg2536580#msg2536580 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105067.msg2536580#msg2536580)

I guess there are mixed messages coming out then, because I know I've seen posts in the past where mods have stated that they appreciate it when the forum does a little 'self moderating'.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: bobsyouruncle on October 14, 2011, 04:16:12 PM
I'm with LadyPekoe. 

I tend to be very lenient when it comes to reporting things (although I have sent reports to  mods), and I think I've been remiss.  There are some posters I see that are constantly behaving in a snarky way and many I think who abuse this forum to an extent.  From now on, I'm going to report those posts.   It sounds like the mods could use a heads up and I think it will make this forum a better place if the habitual offenders were properly warned/gagged/banned.

I agree too.  I've reported a couple of posters over and over again (for different threads and different comments) without anything (seemingly) being done - if people who would normally "let it go" and NOT report those posts began doing so the Mods would have a more accurate view of the problem.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Schmoopie3928 on October 14, 2011, 04:26:58 PM
Not a bad idea lulu. I only started reporting in the last few months. I think I was under the "I'm  sure someone else already did it" mentality. I noticed sometimes that didn't work so now when I see something, I report it.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: KittyBass on October 14, 2011, 04:33:36 PM
I also like your idea Lulu!

I also didn't start reporting threads until recently because I had the same "somebody else probably reported it" mentality.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Lynn2000 on October 14, 2011, 04:35:08 PM
I've been thinking about this very topic due to all the recent threads and I noticed something about my own behavior. I'm reading through a thread and I come upon a reply that I think is a little out of line--not really worthy of being reported, IMO, but it makes me frown a little. Naturally I glance over to see who wrote it. If it's someone with a low post count, <300 or definitely <100, I usually expect to see another poster calling them out about it in another couple of posts (and this often happens). However, if it's someone with a 5-digit post count, I personally usually think, "Oh, that's just how So-and-so is, kind of snippy or blunt," and I personally go on through the thread without really thinking anymore about it. And I almost never see a 5-digit poster get called out in the thread for being too snarky or whatever. (Of course, I don't know about anything that might happen behind the scenes.)

Since I noticed this about my own behavior, I wonder if this happens to other people as well. I'm not asking for a show of hands or anything!  ;D But one could call this an instance of "favoritism" towards long-time or heavy posters that I've been engaging in without consciously realizing it for a while. I am going to watch this in myself and try not to let a user's post count influence me so much.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: hobish on October 14, 2011, 05:01:30 PM
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Amen.

It sounds really like you've got some kind of personal problem with these so-called teacher's pets  :( Even the terminology is sneaky and childish. Everyone has an option to report or not report and always has. I really do not see the point of this "call to arms" against some unidentified "teacher's pets" other than to stir up trouble.  :-\ Although, that said, i guess i could have just reported this whole thread if that is how i feel about it...

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Wordgeek on October 14, 2011, 05:02:57 PM
This is starting to be more positive, and I appreciate that.

The members forget how powerful you are.  Don't like the content?  Post what you do like!  Want to see more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions?  Post more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions.  Think someone is being inappropriate and detrimental to the discussion or the forum?  Take the wind out of their sails by not giving them fodder to work with. 

Mod involvement in a thread is invariably the result of a violation report.  There is a place for comments, although not a drop-down box.   A concise description of the problem, with a summary of the thread when necessary, is immensely helpful.  There are lots of posters who spend way more time on the forum than any of the mods - also, there are way more of you.  The report violation feature is the quickest, most efficient way of notifying us of a problem.  And we rarely know about any problems other than the ones reported.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Kiwichick on October 14, 2011, 05:10:13 PM
I'm with Lady PeKoe, I post infrequently and lurk a lot.  I'm pretty Laid back and not a little lazy so most of the snark and bickering just has me rolling my eyes and moving on.

But I don't like how it has felt here lately and if getting off my butt and reporting posts is what it takes to make this feel like home again then I'm in too.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyPekoe on October 14, 2011, 05:12:12 PM
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Amen.

It sounds really like you've got some kind of personal problem with these so-called teacher's pets  :( Even the terminology is sneaky and childish. Everyone has an option to report or not report and always has. I really do not see the point of this "call to arms" against some unidentified "teacher's pets" other than to stir up trouble.  :-\ Although, that said, i guess i could have just reported this whole thread if that is how i feel about it...

Well, Wordgeek didn't think it was a problematic thread, apparently.  I'm trying to be proactive and positive.

And, as to terminology, to each their own. 

It's not about our right to report or not report.  It's about the laid-back people never reporting and some poster's over-reporting.  These things have to be brought out to people's attention so it can be more far. 

It isn't about my "personal problems", although I'm sure we all have posters we like less than others.  I think we should all be on the same page and I think, up until recently, that some of us were reading a different book.

Mods, I am thankful for all the additional transparency lately.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Schmoopie3928 on October 14, 2011, 05:17:53 PM
Thank you Wordgeek! I am going to try and be more diligent with my reporting. It's true we need to stop complaining and fix it. It's like that old Aesop's Fable. If you want it done right, do it yourself!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: hobish on October 14, 2011, 05:26:09 PM
Well, I am glad to hear that. There are always those posters who are loved more than others, and I am happy to know that you arenít intending a pogrom against those loved less. There are posters I consistently disagree with, and maybe I think they are too blunt, or they just donít communicate in a soft and fuzzy way. Iím not going to label them as teacherís pets and stalk them around EHell to report them every time they donít light up my heart light, KWIM? I bet you a dollar that is exactly how some people are going to take this. I am glad the mods, or at least Wordgeek, are cheered by it. I am somewhat more cynical.

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyPekoe on October 14, 2011, 05:32:31 PM
Well, I am glad to hear that. There are always those posters who are loved more than others, and I am happy to know that you arenít intending a pogrom against those loved less. There are posters I consistently disagree with, and maybe I think they are too blunt, or they just donít communicate in a soft and fuzzy way. Iím not going to label them as teacherís pets and stalk them around EHell to report them every time they donít light up my heart light, KWIM? I bet you a dollar that is exactly how some people are going to take this. I am glad the mods, or at least Wordgeek, are cheered by it. I am somewhat more cynical.


And that's fine.  We all see things through our lens of experience.  I tend to like the posters who are more blunt, so we are all different :)  And, honestly, although I know it appears differently, but I do actually have a husband, family, school, and friends, so the sum-total of my life is not on EH--I certainly don't have the time or inclination to "stalk" people around EHell. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Wendy Moira Angela Pan on October 14, 2011, 05:55:33 PM
I agree with hobish that people will interpret this as a popularity contest. I also think we should all be proactive about reporting posts that are rude or against the rules.

Really, though, I don't think the atmosphere around here will grow pleasanter unless we all commit to being good forum members. That is, being polite, if not pleasant, not allowing ourselves to be easily provoked, assuming the best of each other, and moving on when other posters irk us occasionally. The moderation can change, and it would be nice if it were more transparent, but I think people would criticize the mods no matter what.

It's easy to complain about the forum no longer being a nice place for a conversation. It's harder to do your (general) part by not contributing to the snarky atmosphere and not taking the bait when you think other posters are trying to provoke you.   
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: tnpenguinbaby on October 14, 2011, 06:10:41 PM
I sincerely hope LadyPekoe's idea works.  I, for one, am more than happy to step up my reports.  Unfortunately, everytime I've reported or e-mailed a mod it has been as if the message was beamed into outer space.  No response, no apparent action and no change.

I don't mind the more forthright, blunt posters at all.  I do object to the ones who deliberately provoke others and don't get called on it.  I will follow LadyP's lead and hope it helps.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: supernova on October 14, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
OP, great idea. 

I confess I've only reported a couple of posts in my entire tenure on the board -- and I've felt personally victimized many times.  That's my fault, and I'm not taking it any more -- I'm going to stand up for myself, walk away from the conversation, and report the post. As, it seems, the mods would prefer. 

Thank you for posting this.   :)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 14, 2011, 06:17:06 PM

EHDame is busy.  The mods are busy.  That all makes perfect sense to me.  They only really have time to read what people complain about.  That also make amazing sense. 


Let me give you an example of how busy.  In the past month, I spent many hours at the hospice bedside of a friend dying of cancer holding her hand.  A week after she died, another friend unexpectedly dropped dead from a heart attack and I volunteered to pull off a lunch reception after the funeral for 300 people in just four days.  I just returned from an out of state trip to address legal issues related to my father's messy death a year ago. Oh, if I were to tell that story, jaws would be scraping the floor.  Another mod had a recent death in the family that wasn't exactly pleasant and her high level of emotions leaked out onto the forum. 

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EHDame points out that the same people tend to bring things to her attention--that's my problem.

I'm not sure I said that.  I reported that in the past 30 days 167 different forum members made reports about threads and posts. 

Quote

I rarely report posts because they tend not to bother me.  I either debate or leave, I feel no need to complain most of the time.  I should be able to defend my point well without going crying to "mommy" if I have to or if everybody disagrees with me, maybe I'm the problem. 

People abusing the report link to tattle on someone who just disagreed with them get ignored. 

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But I suspect I can guess at least a couple of the constant "flaggers" and I find it annoying because:

I doubt you can.  I'm looking at the list of those 167 and anyone would be pretty hardpressed to figure out who reports the most.  And if you start a reporting campaign based on your exceedingly limited knowledge of who you think are the "flaggers", you are going to quickly get on the moderator radar.  In other words, it's my job to deal with flaggers, not yours.

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1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

I know many of the mods, including me, read the entire thread or go back to the Staff folder to ask what the dynamics are.   Calling out (rehashing fights from other threads) , by the way, in a different thread is against forum rules.   The mods read this and conclude that what is happening has to do with interpersonal conflict between two people with personalities that rub each other the wrong way and moderate both of them. 


Quote

2.  they only report people who disagree with them.  Personally, I think these posters need to pull up their big boy/girl panties and move on with their day, but that's me.

There is more of that kind of reporting than we like and we ignore them.  I haven't checked the report logs but when people complain that they make reports but no mods act on them, I'm left wondering if their report was one of those,  "Wah!  So and so disagreed with me and that's RUDE!".   

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It very much reminds me of the teacher's pet who is sticking her tongue out at people who they turn around.

Well, that's pretty insulting because a teacher's pet carries the implicit understanding that the teacher is complicit in favoring the "pet". 

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So, my solution is going to be a steady increase in flagging the people who I think "get away with it". 

Just be aware that I have personally warned and gagged people who abuse the report link for their own personal agendas.  The irony is that your determination to report more suspects actually makes more work for the moderators.  Stick to reporting behavior that clearly violates a forum rule or alerts the mods to a potential problem brewing. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: furrcats on October 14, 2011, 06:36:20 PM
I'm so sorry about what you and the mods are going through right now  :(
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Two Ravens on October 14, 2011, 06:50:57 PM
Quote
1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

I know many of the mods, including me, read the entire thread or go back to the Staff folder to ask what the dynamics are.   Calling out (rehashing fights from other threads) , by the way, in a different thread is against forum rules.   The mods read this and conclude that what is happening has to do with interpersonal conflict between two people with personalities that rub each other the wrong way and moderate both of them. 



In this post, http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2525700#msg2525700, Cass pointed out she only read the last post that was reported. 

Quote
The moral of the story is if you see something you don't like, report it rather than wait. We don't see everything, and no, if I'm in a hurry I'm not about to sit down and read 10 pages of a thread looking for who's at fault. I'm more interested in putting out the fire.

It seems to me that with the new warning systems being rolled out, it would have been better if someone had reported some of the earlier posts that started the heated trend.  It is unclear if those other people would get a warning under this new system.

I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: HorseFreak on October 14, 2011, 07:08:59 PM
I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

I particularly agree that this isn't appropriate behavior. There have been several threads in the past few months that I have stopped reading or resisted posting in because previous posters have been trying to drown out others with "I'm right and it's the ONLY way!" over and over. I tend to walk away from threads in which people criticize a suggestion I've made based on their own individual experience without letting the OP weigh in. I'm not here to validate my personal experiences to strangers; your anecdote is not greater than mine.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Wordgeek on October 14, 2011, 07:12:43 PM
Two Ravens, Cass also said, later in the discussion, that she normally does read the whole thread.  We're human beings, not machines.

As to your example, do you have any constructive suggestions?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Two Ravens on October 14, 2011, 07:16:15 PM
I certainly didn't mean to imply you are machines.  I was just trying to see if my interpretation of her quote was correct, that it would have been better if others have reported inflammatory posts earlier.

As to this:
As to your example, do you have any constructive suggestions?

No, I don't, since we are discouraged from calling other posters out.  I was asking if it was acceptable behavior.  If not, I assume the only correct response is to report it.  As I said, I usually just don't post in those threads, but I do find it annoying. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: wolfie on October 14, 2011, 07:16:58 PM
Is there a character limit to the explanation box when you report a post? Last time I reported a post it wasn't because the post itself was bad but because the entire thread seemed to be going downhill but I wasn't sure how much of an explanation I could put into the box so I was very short. Now I wonder if I can get a wordier explanation in if there is a next time.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: hobish on October 14, 2011, 08:09:27 PM
This is starting to be more positive, and I appreciate that.

The members forget how powerful you are.  Don't like the content?  Post what you do like!  Want to see more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions?  Post more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions.  Think someone is being inappropriate and detrimental to the discussion or the forum?  Take the wind out of their sails by not giving them fodder to work with. 

Mod involvement in a thread is invariably the result of a violation report.  There is a place for comments, although not a drop-down box.   A concise description of the problem, with a summary of the thread when necessary, is immensely helpful.  There are lots of posters who spend way more time on the forum than any of the mods - also, there are way more of you.  The report violation feature is the quickest, most efficient way of notifying us of a problem.  And we rarely know about any problems other than the ones reported.

Really? Not all involvement i hope.  :( I mean, you guys read and post just because you like it, too, right? I always figured you guys are part of the community, too, not just overseers or something. Do you get to just surf around and read and post just because you feel like it? 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: kareng57 on October 14, 2011, 08:10:19 PM
Is there a character limit to the explanation box when you report a post? Last time I reported a post it wasn't because the post itself was bad but because the entire thread seemed to be going downhill but I wasn't sure how much of an explanation I could put into the box so I was very short. Now I wonder if I can get a wordier explanation in if there is a next time.


I know, I don't report posts very often, but I agree  that there's not much room for explanation.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: KittyBass on October 14, 2011, 08:17:43 PM
There's been a few times that I was going to report something then changed my mind because I couldn't think of the best way to describe the reason I was reporting it. In those cases the posts weren't glaringly snarky, rude, or unhelpful ,so I ended up feeling foolish for thinking about flagging them.

That's why I really liked the suggestion about having a drop-down menu. It also would help the mods identify what kind of complaint they're dealing with and it might encourage the posters to be more active with reporting posts.

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: SiotehCat on October 14, 2011, 08:21:58 PM
There's been a few times that I was going to report something then changed my mind because I couldn't think of the best way to describe the reason I was reporting it. In those cases the posts weren't glaringly snarky, rude, or unhelpful ,so I ended up feeling foolish for thinking about flagging them.

That's why I really liked the suggestion about having a drop-down menu. It also would help the mods identify what kind of complaint they're dealing with and it might encourage the posters to be more active with reporting posts.

I have had the same problem. I try to think of short ways to describe me reason and then just give up or leave something something too vague.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Shores on October 14, 2011, 08:29:11 PM
There's been a few times that I was going to report something then changed my mind because I couldn't think of the best way to describe the reason I was reporting it. In those cases the posts weren't glaringly snarky, rude, or unhelpful ,so I ended up feeling foolish for thinking about flagging them.

That's why I really liked the suggestion about having a drop-down menu. It also would help the mods identify what kind of complaint they're dealing with and it might encourage the posters to be more active with reporting posts.

I have had the same problem. I try to think of short ways to describe me reason and then just give up or leave something something too vague.
There have been times when I've reported something and left the comment box blank. I know it's not what mods would prefer, but there have certainly been a few times that I just could not word what I wanted to say, could not describe the issue, but I wanted it at least on SOMEONE'S radar. It's not the best way to handle it, but if you really struggle to say what you think is wrong, I still think it would be better to report with no explanation than not report at all.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: still in va on October 14, 2011, 09:10:57 PM
There's been a few times that I was going to report something then changed my mind because I couldn't think of the best way to describe the reason I was reporting it. In those cases the posts weren't glaringly snarky, rude, or unhelpful ,so I ended up feeling foolish for thinking about flagging them.

That's why I really liked the suggestion about having a drop-down menu. It also would help the mods identify what kind of complaint they're dealing with and it might encourage the posters to be more active with reporting posts.

I have had the same problem. I try to think of short ways to describe me reason and then just give up or leave something something too vague.
There have been times when I've reported something and left the comment box blank. I know it's not what mods would prefer, but there have certainly been a few times that I just could not word what I wanted to say, could not describe the issue, but I wanted it at least on SOMEONE'S radar. It's not the best way to handle it, but if you really struggle to say what you think is wrong, I still think it would be better to report with no explanation than not report at all.

Shores, that's very interesting to me.  i reported two posts this week (probably the 4th & 5th times i've reported since i've been here!), and i really struggled to figure out what to write.  one felt like a personal attack on another poster, but it was more of a "tone" thing over several posts.  i really didn't know how to say that!

mods who are reading, if you do get a blank report for a post, what do you do?  figure the submitter hit the wrong button and disregard?  go look anyway?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyPekoe on October 14, 2011, 09:36:55 PM
I get all the EhellDames points but that just isn't how I read the post in the locked thread.  I suppose I was wrong :)  It's easy to read posts wrong.  For example, when I said "gets away with it", I didn't mean randomly flagging people who I dislike, I meant flagging the serially snarky who never seem to tone it down and yet, never seem to be banned.

And I wasn't being insulting about being busy.  Lots of us our busy.  I understand. 

But I still think that people need to start flagging what they are bothered by.  I honestly think I have flagged 2 posts in the entire 3 years or so I have been here, I just tend not to get bothered enough to do so.  I'm still not going to flag people who disagree with me but I think I will start flagging some of the super snarky too.

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: One Goat to Rule Them All on October 14, 2011, 09:54:43 PM
While I agree that a drop down box would be helpful, that doesn't necessarily make it feasible. The mod's aren't computer programmers, we have to work within the constraints of the forum software.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: goblue2539 on October 14, 2011, 09:59:35 PM
LP, I think I understand where you're coming from.  We're getting a lot more information on how the Dame and the Mods operate and how it impacts and is affected by their real life lives.  Now, you're pointing out that a lot of us may want to reconsider how we react to things based on that information.

Like some PPs, I often walk away from a post that annoys, irritates, or upsets me because I figure if it's really bad and not just me, someone else already did it.  Knowing that the Mods have their hands full figuring out which reports are serious and which ones are frivolous actually does make me feel like I should be reporting more often.  While I know that this "makes work" for the Mods, I would hope that having multiple reports of the same post or poster would help them narrow things down in the long run.

I hope that if/when I feel the need to report a post, it'll be influenced by the information here.  I will do my level best as a member of this community to make sure that I'm not reporting because someone made me mad, but because I really feel that someone should be looking at what they said.  However, I will make more of an effort to report posts that I feel cross a line because I can't sit back and pretend that "someone else will do it".  It's not their job to report something that I feel is wrong.  It's mine.

Thank you LadyPekoe.  The point isn't the turn of phrase you used.  The point is that we need to be more proactive, and I agree with you.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Mikayla on October 14, 2011, 10:12:18 PM

I guess there are mixed messages coming out then, because I know I've seen posts in the past where mods have stated that they appreciate it when the forum does a little 'self moderating'.

I've read through to the end of this, and while I think there are some really good points made, this struck me, because I think some self regulating is important.  There are many polite ways to do it, because I've done it myself.  Call a statement unfair, or ask someone to tone it down. 

But a big part of the problem is that there are people in here, some with massive post counts and others much newer, where I cringe every time they post.  The comments aren't report-worthy, at least by my definition. But they go that extra step to toss in possible snark.  Or they dive bomb threads where they haven't been participating because they caught someone missing a point in the OP and they simply must point it out.  Or they toss in a one-liner question with an undercurrent of disbelief.

I think that, in subtle ways, they contribute to any negative tone people are seeing.  They send out a little piece of bait, and pretty soon the sharks are circling. 

Maybe we do need clarification on this.  Because the one thing that seems obvious is that an etiquette forum should be holding itself to a higher standard.  And nothing sucks more than having a thread locked when 90 percent of the participants were enjoying it and contributing. 

I'm going to make a greater effort to report the truly egregious comments, but it's the lesser ones from serial antagonists that can be trickier, imo. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 14, 2011, 11:34:53 PM

Mod involvement in a thread is invariably the result of a violation report.  There is a place for comments, although not a drop-down box.   A concise description of the problem, with a summary of the thread when necessary, is immensely helpful.  There are lots of posters who spend way more time on the forum than any of the mods - also, there are way more of you.  The report violation feature is the quickest, most efficient way of notifying us of a problem.  And we rarely know about any problems other than the ones reported.

Really? Not all involvement i hope.  :( I mean, you guys read and post just because you like it, too, right? I always figured you guys are part of the community, too, not just overseers or something. Do you get to just surf around and read and post just because you feel like it?
[/quote]

I noted a long time ago that the minute I participate in a non-moderated, etiquette related thread, everyone goes quiet.  I rarely participate in threads anymore out of courtesy for others having a good time discussing the topic.  I do, however, read the Hugs folder to keep track of what's happening to people, techno-etiquette is a favorite folder, the ghost story thread is a favorite, I check in on the meet and greet folder occasionally (Is everyone having fun in there?).  I usually wander around the forum peeking in on interesting discussions. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 15, 2011, 12:09:21 AM



In this post, http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2525700#msg2525700, Cass pointed out she only read the last post that was reported. 

 

Cass had a death in the family earlier that day.  I was traveling all day and was unavailable.  Other mods were also tied up.  She took care of the problem as best she could given the circumstances.   Personally I would have selfishly ignored Ehell altogether to grieve and let the reports go unanswered.  Come to think of it, I did exactly that while I sat during a deathwatch recently which would have earned me scorn for "ignoring the problem" or "playing favorites" when I didn't jump at someone's beck and call to answer their report.   Cass, on the other hand, tried to keep up with the reports and understandably didn't quite get it right.

Quote
It seems to me that with the new warning systems being rolled out, it would have been better if someone had reported some of the earlier posts that started the heated trend. 

Look at it from our perspective.  A Report gets logged into the moderation line up.  It's the first (and often only) report for that thread.  A mod reads the offending post and it sure looks snippy.  With no other  prior reports, the assumption is often that this reported post was the one that started it all.   Moderator takes action to snuff out the fire he/she sees only to have people gripe that it was the wrong person.

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: MariaE on October 15, 2011, 02:22:52 AM
What I'll sometimes do is report a post and in the comment box write something along the lines of, "I'm using this one post as an example, but I feel the entire thread has gone downhill." Precisely in order to not call out a specific poster, but a trend.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 15, 2011, 08:16:19 AM
What I'll sometimes do is report a post and in the comment box write something along the lines of, "I'm using this one post as an example, but I feel the entire thread has gone downhill." Precisely in order to not call out a specific poster, but a trend.

Yes!  Thank you, Maria.  You do a very good job alerting mods to downward trends so they can keep an eye on it.  The default is that mods will wait to see if the posters can work out the problem amongst themselves and get the thread back on track without moderator intervention.   And often people do work it out.  I think people need to realize that, being human, there will be rough spots in our communications with each other and people need to work through it to reach a mutual understanding.  That is what mature, civil-minded people do.  That's what we mean by self-moderating...take responsibility for your own behavior. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 15, 2011, 08:55:12 AM
I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

I particularly agree that this isn't appropriate behavior. There have been several threads in the past few months that I have stopped reading or resisted posting in because previous posters have been trying to drown out others with "I'm right and it's the ONLY way!" over and over. I tend to walk away from threads in which people criticize a suggestion I've made based on their own individual experience without letting the OP weigh in. I'm not here to validate my personal experiences to strangers; your anecdote is not greater than mine.

When I read this example, I see various people with quite divergent opinions having a disagreement.    In  real life there is a broad diversity of personalities, opinions, customs, manners of speaking, etc.  An etiquette forum isn't going to make those differences go away and members will need to learn how to interact with people very different than themselves.   

If I were to get a report about a thread like exampled above, my first thought would be,  "Hmm, why haven't Posters 3,4, and 5 been able to present/argue their case more effectively?"  If someone comes better prepared than others to defend their position, why would that be worthy of moderating action?  Civil debate can be enormously fun and mentally stimulating but let's face it, it takes practice if you want to be good at it.  I'd go so far as to say that civil debate is like a game (think of high school and college debate teams that compete) and some people play it better than others.   

  The feeling of being bullied is perhaps nothing more than the feeling that you are losing to a better prepared person.   It seems to me the remedy is to become a better debater, learn to make cogent, well formed points, present evidence well and then relax knowing you made the best possible case you could and then let it go.   Readers are not stupid and they can weigh the positions and to be honest, people really do respect someone who can state their positions well. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: The Legend of Daisy on October 15, 2011, 09:20:35 AM
I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

I particularly agree that this isn't appropriate behavior. There have been several threads in the past few months that I have stopped reading or resisted posting in because previous posters have been trying to drown out others with "I'm right and it's the ONLY way!" over and over. I tend to walk away from threads in which people criticize a suggestion I've made based on their own individual experience without letting the OP weigh in. I'm not here to validate my personal experiences to strangers; your anecdote is not greater than mine.

When I read this example, I see various people with quite divergent opinions having a disagreement.    In  real life there is a broad diversity of personalities, opinions, customs, manners of speaking, etc.  An etiquette forum isn't going to make those differences go away and members will need to learn how to interact with people very different than themselves.   

If I were to get a report about a thread like exampled above, my first thought would be,  "Hmm, why haven't Posters 3,4, and 5 been able to present/argue their case more effectively?"  If someone comes better prepared than others to defend their position, why would that be worthy of moderating action?  Civil debate can be enormously fun and mentally stimulating but let's face it, it takes practice if you want to be good at it.  I'd go so far as to say that civil debate is like a game (think of high school and college debate teams that compete) and some people play it better than others.   

  The feeling of being bullied is perhaps nothing more than the feeling that you are losing to a better prepared person.   It seems to me the remedy is to become a better debater, learn to make cogent, well formed points, present evidence well and then relax knowing you made the best possible case you could and then let it go.   Readers are not stupid and they can weigh the positions and to be honest, people really do respect someone who can state their positions well.

No, I think the feeling of being bullied in these posts speaks to the comment of an earlier post. It's about stamina. Like the mods, I also have a life and I simply won't go back and forth repeating the same things over and over, however there are some posters here who seem to have unlimited time to respond to every post reiterating their theme. One would think that if 50% or 60% or more of posters disagree with the OP they would step back and say, hmmm maybe there is a different perspective? But that's not what happens with some posters, they dig in their heels. When I see that I think myself and a lot of other reasonable posters just walk away. We're not going to waste our time and the whole community loses where the 'dogs in the manger' refuse to let anyone else have a bit of hay.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Two Ravens on October 15, 2011, 09:22:57 AM
I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

I particularly agree that this isn't appropriate behavior. There have been several threads in the past few months that I have stopped reading or resisted posting in because previous posters have been trying to drown out others with "I'm right and it's the ONLY way!" over and over. I tend to walk away from threads in which people criticize a suggestion I've made based on their own individual experience without letting the OP weigh in. I'm not here to validate my personal experiences to strangers; your anecdote is not greater than mine.

When I read this example, I see various people with quite divergent opinions having a disagreement.    In  real life there is a broad diversity of personalities, opinions, customs, manners of speaking, etc.  An etiquette forum isn't going to make those differences go away and members will need to learn how to interact with people very different than themselves.   

If I were to get a report about a thread like exampled above, my first thought would be,  "Hmm, why haven't Posters 3,4, and 5 been able to present/argue their case more effectively?"  If someone comes better prepared than others to defend their position, why would that be worthy of moderating action?  Civil debate can be enormously fun and mentally stimulating but let's face it, it takes practice if you want to be good at it.  I'd go so far as to say that civil debate is like a game (think of high school and college debate teams that compete) and some people play it better than others.   

  The feeling of being bullied is perhaps nothing more than the feeling that you are losing to a better prepared person.   It seems to me the remedy is to become a better debater, learn to make cogent, well formed points, present evidence well and then relax knowing you made the best possible case you could and then let it go.   Readers are not stupid and they can weigh the positions and to be honest, people really do respect someone who can state their positions well.

Restating the same opinion over and over is not really "debating" to my mind, but thank you for clearing up that this is acceptable behavior in this forum.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: wolfie on October 15, 2011, 10:06:15 AM
Or they dive bomb threads where they haven't been participating because they caught someone missing a point in the OP and they simply must point it out.

I think that cane be a very important thing. I did that once - someone misunderstood the OP's answer to a question - they missed the NOT in the sentence and it seemed like everyone else was keying off that misunderstanding and giving advice that was based on behavior the OP had stated wasn't occurring.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 15, 2011, 10:38:23 AM

Restating the same opinion over and over is not really "debating" to my mind, but thank you for clearing up that this is acceptable behavior in this forum.

If this is the best example you can give me, you are going to be disappointed with my answer.  I do not think stubbornness and tenacity rise to the level of being a gagging or ban worthy offense.    If stubbornness and tenacity is coupled with snotty comments, insults, uncivil behavior, *then* it is becomes a moderating issue. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 15, 2011, 10:58:14 AM
I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

I particularly agree that this isn't appropriate behavior. There have been several threads in the past few months that I have stopped reading or resisted posting in because previous posters have been trying to drown out others with "I'm right and it's the ONLY way!" over and over. I tend to walk away from threads in which people criticize a suggestion I've made based on their own individual experience without letting the OP weigh in. I'm not here to validate my personal experiences to strangers; your anecdote is not greater than mine.

When I read this example, I see various people with quite divergent opinions having a disagreement.    In  real life there is a broad diversity of personalities, opinions, customs, manners of speaking, etc.  An etiquette forum isn't going to make those differences go away and members will need to learn how to interact with people very different than themselves.   

If I were to get a report about a thread like exampled above, my first thought would be,  "Hmm, why haven't Posters 3,4, and 5 been able to present/argue their case more effectively?"  If someone comes better prepared than others to defend their position, why would that be worthy of moderating action?  Civil debate can be enormously fun and mentally stimulating but let's face it, it takes practice if you want to be good at it.  I'd go so far as to say that civil debate is like a game (think of high school and college debate teams that compete) and some people play it better than others.   

  The feeling of being bullied is perhaps nothing more than the feeling that you are losing to a better prepared person.   It seems to me the remedy is to become a better debater, learn to make cogent, well formed points, present evidence well and then relax knowing you made the best possible case you could and then let it go.   Readers are not stupid and they can weigh the positions and to be honest, people really do respect someone who can state their positions well.

No, I think the feeling of being bullied in these posts speaks to the comment of an earlier post. It's about stamina. Like the mods, I also have a life and I simply won't go back and forth repeating the same things over and over, however there are some posters here who seem to have unlimited time to respond to every post reiterating their theme. One would think that if 50% or 60% or more of posters disagree with the OP they would step back and say, hmmm maybe there is a different perspective? But that's not what happens with some posters, they dig in their heels. When I see that I think myself and a lot of other reasonable posters just walk away. We're not going to waste our time and the whole community loses where the 'dogs in the manger' refuse to let anyone else have a bit of hay.

But isn't that how threads should die?  After the best points are made, often in the first three to four pages, the reasonable posters wander off to new threads leaving the thread to sputter out with the "dogs" fighting amongst themselves over rechewed details.  Many of the forum "pillars" are so good at expressing themselves that they only need one post to express their opinion.  I notice the exact moment there is an exodus of the forum heavyweights from a thread and I am sure I'm not the only one.   I would disagree that the community loses when the scrabbling continues over minor points.  They only lose if they keep going back to the thread and either entering into the fray or allow it to weigh them down.   

So, keep doing what you are doing, i.e. inputting into threads with an opinion, walking away when it is no longer productive and if necessary, contact a mod to report that a thread has devolved into circular argumentation and is no longer of any productive use.  (And note that this means the *thread* gets moderated, not individuals since it takes more than one person to have a never ending argument.)    And then relax in the knowledge that readers can figure out who are the people to trust and who just likes to gnaw on the bone over and over. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Two Ravens on October 15, 2011, 11:12:28 AM

Restating the same opinion over and over is not really "debating" to my mind, but thank you for clearing up that this is acceptable behavior in this forum.

If this is the best example you can give me, you are going to be disappointed with my answer.  I do not think stubbornness and tenacity rise to the level of being a gagging or ban worthy offense.    If stubbornness and tenacity is coupled with snotty comments, insults, uncivil behavior, *then* it is becomes a moderating issue.

I am not dissapointed in anything.  Again, thank you for clearing it up. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: The Legend of Daisy on October 15, 2011, 11:38:45 AM
But isn't that how threads should die?  After the best points are made, often in the first three to four pages, the reasonable posters wander off to new threads leaving the thread to sputter out with the "dogs" fighting amongst themselves over rechewed details.  Many of the forum "pillars" are so good at expressing themselves that they only need one post to express their opinion.  I notice the exact moment there is an exodus of the forum heavyweights from a thread and I am sure I'm not the only one.   I would disagree that the community loses when the scrabbling continues over minor points.  They only lose if they keep going back to the thread and either entering into the fray or allow it to weigh them down.   

So, keep doing what you are doing, i.e. inputting into threads with an opinion, walking away when it is no longer productive and if necessary, contact a mod to report that a thread has devolved into circular argumentation and is no longer of any productive use.  (And note that this means the *thread* gets moderated, not individuals since it takes more than one person to have a never ending argument.)    And then relax in the knowledge that readers can figure out who are the people to trust and who just likes to gnaw on the bone over and over.

That's quite an interesting viewpoint. I must say that doesn't seem like a satisfactory ending to a thread at all.

I do find it very helpful that you and the mods are openly communicating for the last few days, even when I don't agree with the answer. It's much better when questions are answered.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Shores on October 15, 2011, 11:43:18 AM
Or they dive bomb threads where they haven't been participating because they caught someone missing a point in the OP and they simply must point it out.

I think that cane be a very important thing. I did that once - someone misunderstood the OP's answer to a question - they missed the NOT in the sentence and it seemed like everyone else was keying off that misunderstanding and giving advice that was based on behavior the OP had stated wasn't occurring.
Agreed. I wouldn't jump into a thread just to say something little like "Wolfie, you stuck an 'e' on the end of your 'can'. Mistaaaake!" (although I guess I just did as illustration :P) but I would absolutely jump in to say "Actually the OP said the coworker asked her ONE time, not four" if it is a bigger deal because I think it's the right thing to do. Especially if that mistake is leading to negative statements about someone.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Bexx27 on October 15, 2011, 11:48:24 AM
What about posts that are not snarky and don't break forum rules, but express an opinion that is really outrageous? Particularly from posters who habitually post over the top things that seem designed to get a strong reaction? I'm thinking along the lines of, "In my family, we believe children are equal to adults and we don't control them or give them rules. They don't have to do anything they don't want to." I usually just roll my eyes at these sorts of posts and put the poster on my troll alert list. But today, with this thread in mind, I reported one. Is that the right thing to do, considering the post is perfectly polite and doesn't violate any forum rules? In the past I've only reported for actual rule violations or outright nastiness.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 15, 2011, 11:51:50 AM
But isn't that how threads should die?  After the best points are made, often in the first three to four pages, the reasonable posters wander off to new threads leaving the thread to sputter out with the "dogs" fighting amongst themselves over rechewed details.  Many of the forum "pillars" are so good at expressing themselves that they only need one post to express their opinion.  I notice the exact moment there is an exodus of the forum heavyweights from a thread and I am sure I'm not the only one.   I would disagree that the community loses when the scrabbling continues over minor points.  They only lose if they keep going back to the thread and either entering into the fray or allow it to weigh them down.   

So, keep doing what you are doing, i.e. inputting into threads with an opinion, walking away when it is no longer productive and if necessary, contact a mod to report that a thread has devolved into circular argumentation and is no longer of any productive use.  (And note that this means the *thread* gets moderated, not individuals since it takes more than one person to have a never ending argument.)    And then relax in the knowledge that readers can figure out who are the people to trust and who just likes to gnaw on the bone over and over.

That's quite an interesting viewpoint. I must say that doesn't seem like a satisfactory ending to a thread at all.

I do find it very helpful that you and the mods are openly communicating for the last few days, even when I don't agree with the answer. It's much better when questions are answered.

Disagreement is not rude but we have been getting a LOT more reports in recent months where people seem to believe that it is.  The mods unanimously do not respond to complaints citing the act of disagreeing as rude and the offender should be moderated.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Luci on October 15, 2011, 11:54:19 AM
But isn't that how threads should die?  After the best points are made, often in the first three to four pages, the reasonable posters wander off to new threads leaving the thread to sputter out with the "dogs" fighting amongst themselves over rechewed details.  Many of the forum "pillars" are so good at expressing themselves that they only need one post to express their opinion.  I notice the exact moment there is an exodus of the forum heavyweights from a thread and I am sure I'm not the only one.   I would disagree that the community loses when the scrabbling continues over minor points.  They only lose if they keep going back to the thread and either entering into the fray or allow it to weigh them down.   

So, keep doing what you are doing, i.e. inputting into threads with an opinion, walking away when it is no longer productive and if necessary, contact a mod to report that a thread has devolved into circular argumentation and is no longer of any productive use.  (And note that this means the *thread* gets moderated, not individuals since it takes more than one person to have a never ending argument.)    And then relax in the knowledge that readers can figure out who are the people to trust and who just likes to gnaw on the bone over and over.

That's quite an interesting viewpoint. I must say that doesn't seem like a satisfactory ending to a thread at all.

I do find it very helpful that you and the mods are openly communicating for the last few days, even when I don't agree with the answer. It's much better when questions are answered.

My reason for letting threads die this way is that for most of them, there is no yes or no answer. In the first few pages, several suggestions are made and it is up to us to decide which seems to be the best for us. Even true etiquette questions often don't have one answer. It depends much on culture, microculture, individuals, and evolution of etiquette.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: cbcb on October 15, 2011, 12:21:54 PM
What about posts that are not snarky and don't break forum rules, but express an opinion that is really outrageous? Particularly from posters who habitually post over the top things that seem designed to get a strong reaction? I'm thinking along the lines of, "In my family, we believe children are equal to adults and we don't control them or give them rules. They don't have to do anything they don't want to." I usually just roll my eyes at these sorts of posts and put the poster on my troll alert list. But today, with this thread in mind, I reported one. Is that the right thing to do, considering the post is perfectly polite and doesn't violate any forum rules? In the past I've only reported for actual rule violations or outright nastiness.

See this example I don't see as reportable - I think the difference lies when outrageous moves into offensive/bigoted. Particularly because it's couched as "in my family, we believe". This is a difference in attitude towards children's roles. Reportable to me would be:

"If you don't treat your children as equal to adults, you are abusive."

I'll admit there is a grey area, particularly on hot topics like religion, politics, etc.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: SiotehCat on October 15, 2011, 12:31:15 PM
What about posts that are not snarky and don't break forum rules, but express an opinion that is really outrageous? Particularly from posters who habitually post over the top things that seem designed to get a strong reaction? I'm thinking along the lines of, "In my family, we believe children are equal to adults and we don't control them or give them rules. They don't have to do anything they don't want to." I usually just roll my eyes at these sorts of posts and put the poster on my troll alert list. But today, with this thread in mind, I reported one. Is that the right thing to do, considering the post is perfectly polite and doesn't violate any forum rules? In the past I've only reported for actual rule violations or outright nastiness.

That is interesting and I would like to know the answer to that as well.

That would certainly stop posters like myself, who run our families and have beliefs that are very different then the majority.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: The Legend of Daisy on October 15, 2011, 12:35:33 PM
But isn't that how threads should die?  After the best points are made, often in the first three to four pages, the reasonable posters wander off to new threads leaving the thread to sputter out with the "dogs" fighting amongst themselves over rechewed details.  Many of the forum "pillars" are so good at expressing themselves that they only need one post to express their opinion.  I notice the exact moment there is an exodus of the forum heavyweights from a thread and I am sure I'm not the only one.   I would disagree that the community loses when the scrabbling continues over minor points.  They only lose if they keep going back to the thread and either entering into the fray or allow it to weigh them down.   

So, keep doing what you are doing, i.e. inputting into threads with an opinion, walking away when it is no longer productive and if necessary, contact a mod to report that a thread has devolved into circular argumentation and is no longer of any productive use.  (And note that this means the *thread* gets moderated, not individuals since it takes more than one person to have a never ending argument.)    And then relax in the knowledge that readers can figure out who are the people to trust and who just likes to gnaw on the bone over and over.

That's quite an interesting viewpoint. I must say that doesn't seem like a satisfactory ending to a thread at all.

I do find it very helpful that you and the mods are openly communicating for the last few days, even when I don't agree with the answer. It's much better when questions are answered.

Disagreement is not rude but we have been getting a LOT more reports in recent months where people seem to believe that it is.  The mods unanimously do not respond to complaints citing the act of disagreeing as rude and the offender should be moderated.

I'm not sure why this answer was tagged onto my post, but I'm the last person to think polite disagreement is rude. I think you might be misunderstanding the problem, it's not about disagreement, it's about a bullish refusal to admit that there might be any other perspective to a problem. It's not the disagreement that is the problem, it's the lack of respect for other posters.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Bexx27 on October 15, 2011, 12:43:36 PM
(sorry, can't quote on ipad)

Siotehcat, my example may not have been the best to express my point. The specific post I reported had nothing to do with family issues, it was just expressing an outrageous viewpoint that 99 percent of posters would likely disagree with. I found it difficult to come up with an example that wouldn't be too much like any of the actual examples I was thinking of. I absolutely don't think people should be kicked off the board for running their family in a non-traditional way. I'm really just thinking of posts that seem to have been made for shock value, particularly if they border on sexism/racism/other types of discrimination or stereotyping. Posters who seem to try to find buttons to push just set off my troll alarm, kwim?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: bobsyouruncle on October 15, 2011, 01:01:16 PM
What about posts that are not snarky and don't break forum rules, but express an opinion that is really outrageous? Particularly from posters who habitually post over the top things that seem designed to get a strong reaction? I'm thinking along the lines of, "In my family, we believe children are equal to adults and we don't control them or give them rules. They don't have to do anything they don't want to." I usually just roll my eyes at these sorts of posts and put the poster on my troll alert list. But today, with this thread in mind, I reported one. Is that the right thing to do, considering the post is perfectly polite and doesn't violate any forum rules? In the past I've only reported for actual rule violations or outright nastiness.

I actually enjoy reading posts from posters with different opinions with mine - even if they are very different  BUT if I thought a poster was pretending to have an extreme opinion just to get a rise out of other posters I would have no problem reporting them.  I would probably say something just like that too in the report - that I think a poster is pretending to be extreme to get a rise out of others. 

I do think that it would be really really helpful if a mod or two could be added to the roster.  I feel awful thinking that Cass took the time out of her day when someone had passed to take care of an issue in a thread - that's just silly and I don't think anyone expects the mods to be doing it.  Adding mods would prevent things like that from happening and take some of the pressure off of them.

I lurked for a long time before I joined and even in the just about a year since I've been a member I have seen the significant shift in the "tone" of this board that other posters have described.  It makes me sad mad because I like posting here and in the past couple of months I haven't been doing as much of that.  I have done my best to help things along - both by reporting posts that I have thought were against the spirit of the board and by trying to self moderate within threads.  However part of the problem has been posts being deleted and threads locked/deleted (deleted from public view that is - I understand that mods/Jeanne can still read them)  I feel that this combined with the fact that the mods ARE so overworked right now AND the fact that people may not have been reporting posts has lead to a perfect storm situation where (as other posters have pointed out) certain members have gotten away with behavior that seems unbelievable to those posters who *are* seeing all of the posts and remembering posters from thread to thread (while a mod is more likely to only see 1 or 2 threads where the behavior is combined.)  I could (but never would) name 10 - 15 posters off the top of my head (some newer, some who have been here long enough to know better)that I literally have no idea how they are still allowed to post on this board. This is fairly frustrating and I know that I have stopped bothering posting in threads where these people post and I have stopped reading threads they are involved in - believe me when I say this is no small number of threads.

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: cbcb on October 15, 2011, 01:16:19 PM
(sorry, can't quote on ipad)

Siotehcat, my example may not have been the best to express my point. The specific post I reported had nothing to do with family issues, it was just expressing an outrageous viewpoint that 99 percent of posters would likely disagree with. I found it difficult to come up with an example that wouldn't be too much like any of the actual examples I was thinking of. I absolutely don't think people should be kicked off the board for running their family in a non-traditional way. I'm really just thinking of posts that seem to have been made for shock value, particularly if they border on sexism/racism/other types of discrimination or stereotyping. Posters who seem to try to find buttons to push just set off my troll alarm, kwim?

So something more like:

"In my family, we believe women should keep their mouths shut and not disagree or challenge men. Men make all choices and that is final, because women aren't capable of such things. Women are too stupid and flighty to be trusted to decide on anything more meaningful than what's for dinner (and even that only from a short list suggested by their husband)".

That I see as reportable - phased in such a way, it doesn't seem the point of view to someone open to discussion or debate, and it's blatantly sexist, even with the couched initial phrasing.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 15, 2011, 01:43:52 PM
I think you might be misunderstanding the problem, it's not about disagreement, it's about a bullish refusal to admit that there might be any other perspective to a problem. It's not the disagreement that is the problem, it's the lack of respect for other posters.

People are entitled to keep their opinions.  People don't have the right to demand that others see their side of things.  They can argue that its one way or another, and other people can disagree.  But, to call them out as disrespectful because they refuse to agree or acknowledge another POV, I think, isn't appropriate.

I have seen examples of responses to this and I do think they make the thread go downhill.
 
Catty comments like "but I guess nothing I say will change your mind..."
 
or

"it's obvious you just posted for validation because you are not admitting that you did anything wrong!"
 
Neither of those types of statements advance the discussion.
 
Another type of post that concerns me are the ones where people say "Why did you bother to post?"
 
These are all posts that turn the discussion onto the discussion.  Instead of discussing the topic at hand, posters start discussing the discussion and their fellow posters and how they are discussing.

It turns it into a "meta" thread.

The rules have always been that if you have a problem with someone that you should take it to PM.  I think that doing that or reporting the post to a moderator is much better than turning the thread in on itself.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: hobish on October 15, 2011, 01:50:57 PM

Mod involvement in a thread is invariably the result of a violation report.  There is a place for comments, although not a drop-down box.   A concise description of the problem, with a summary of the thread when necessary, is immensely helpful.  There are lots of posters who spend way more time on the forum than any of the mods - also, there are way more of you.  The report violation feature is the quickest, most efficient way of notifying us of a problem.  And we rarely know about any problems other than the ones reported.

Really? Not all involvement i hope.  :( I mean, you guys read and post just because you like it, too, right? I always figured you guys are part of the community, too, not just overseers or something. Do you get to just surf around and read and post just because you feel like it?

I noted a long time ago that the minute I participate in a non-moderated, etiquette related thread, everyone goes quiet.  I rarely participate in threads anymore out of courtesy for others having a good time discussing the topic.  I do, however, read the Hugs folder to keep track of what's happening to people, techno-etiquette is a favorite folder, the ghost story thread is a favorite, I check in on the meet and greet folder occasionally (Is everyone having fun in there?).  I usually wander around the forum peeking in on interesting discussions.
[/quote][/quote]

Awww! You should be able to discuss and have a good time, too, and i really hope all of the mods can. It just doesn't seem fair that y'all have to play Mom all of the time here. I do see where you are coming from, though.  :) I have often wondered - and this is Not a question, just a little daydream i have - that you have an alternate EHell log in so you can play around without the The Dame Hath Spoken effect  :)


...i've tried in vain to fix the quote tags, but i can't figure it out
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: The Legend of Daisy on October 15, 2011, 02:29:23 PM
I'm not quoting because I'm on my phone.

Audrey you say that you can't demand that other people see your point of view. I actually think that if you're discussing something in a thread the other posters have every right to expect you to see and acknowledge their POV. No-one can demand you agree, but if you don't want to be exposed to or admit the existence of dissenting opinions then why participate in an online discussion in the first place.

ETA it would be inappropriate to take the type of behaviour I'm talking about to  PM because it has nothing to do with any individual discussion and everything to do with a pattern of behaviour   
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Wendy Moira Angela Pan on October 15, 2011, 03:25:57 PM

 But, to call them out as disrespectful because they refuse to agree or acknowledge another POV, I think, isn't appropriate.

I have seen examples of responses to this and I do think they make the thread go downhill.
 
Catty comments like "but I guess nothing I say will change your mind..."
 
or

"it's obvious you just posted for validation because you are not admitting that you did anything wrong!"
 
Neither of those types of statements advance the discussion.
 
Another type of post that concerns me are the ones where people say "Why did you bother to post?"
 
These are all posts that turn the discussion onto the discussion.  Instead of discussing the topic at hand, posters start discussing the discussion and their fellow posters and how they are discussing.

It turns it into a "meta" thread.

The rules have always been that if you have a problem with someone that you should take it to PM.  I think that doing that or reporting the post to a moderator is much better than turning the thread in on itself.

I completely agree that these types of posts add nothing to the discussion! And I think they're rather rude, to boot. The last time I saw remarks like that made in a thread, the OP even had about half the posters on her side. But some people were accusing her of posting for justification. A couple just kept saying it over and over. Is it really necessary to changes your mind about how to approach an issue after posting about it in the forum? Often I am nearly decided on what I want to do, and talking it over here helps me be more confident about my decision. Or sometimes I am almost sure what I am going to do, and the board convinces me that my plans are inadvisable. Am I wasting people's time if I ask for their opinion, and am unconvinced by their arguments?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 15, 2011, 03:50:31 PM
I'm not quoting because I'm on my phone.

Audrey you say that you can't demand that other people see your point of view. I actually think that if you're discussing something in a thread the other posters have every right to expect you to see and acknowledge their POV. No-one can demand you agree, but if you don't want to be exposed to or admit the existence of dissenting opinions then why participate in an online discussion in the first place.

I think the only thing you have a right to expect is that others will treat you politely. 
 
If someone doesn't want to address your posts for whatever reason they have the right to do that.
 
I have never seen any poster assert that there were no dissenting opinions.  If they don't want to argue with people who hold dissenting opinions, that is their right.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Shores on October 15, 2011, 03:54:22 PM
I'm not quoting because I'm on my phone.

Audrey you say that you can't demand that other people see your point of view. I actually think that if you're discussing something in a thread the other posters have every right to expect you to see and acknowledge their POV. No-one can demand you agree, but if you don't want to be exposed to or admit the existence of dissenting opinions then why participate in an online discussion in the first place.

I think the only thing you have a right to expect is that others will treat you politely. 
 
If someone doesn't want to address your posts for whatever reason they have the right to do that.
 
I have never seen any poster assert that there were no dissenting opinions.  If they don't want to argue with people who hold dissenting opinions, that is their right.
I have to agree with AQ; I think this falls into "annoying as heck" but not reportable territory. There are other annoying posting habits, like a poster who ALWAYS has to have the last word and will come back to a discussion that they've "quit" 5 times already because they just can't stand not having that last word or a poster who immediately calls "abuse!", recommends calling CPS and breaks out "The Gift of Fear" any time someone has a fight with their partner. But in a group of hundreds (if not over a thousand) online at the same time, there will always be behaviours that annoy you.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: jillybean on October 15, 2011, 03:57:54 PM
I went through a period where I got really frustrated with the way so many threads seemed to turn into a few posters going over and over and over the same points and nitpicking an issue to death no matter how trivial.  I would always laugh and tell my husband, "You will not believe what these ridiculous people are arguing over now."

Then I realized that that's very entertaining and mentally stimulating for some people.  Not me, mind you, but it's just a lot of fun for some people to debate an issue up, down and sideways.  They aren't being malicious.  Once I realized that, if it starts happening, I just quit reading the thread because I find it tedious and boring, but I no longer get frustrated or roll my eyes at these people.  Their idea of a good time is just different from mine.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: aventurine on October 15, 2011, 10:26:12 PM
I'm with LadyPekoe. 

I tend to be very lenient when it comes to reporting things (although I have sent reports to  mods), and I think I've been remiss.  There are some posters I see that are constantly behaving in a snarky way and many I think who abuse this forum to an extent.  From now on, I'm going to report those posts.   It sounds like the mods could use a heads up and I think it will make this forum a better place if the habitual offenders were properly warned/gagged/banned.

Hoo boy, am I late to this party - s'what I get for taking subject lines literally   ;D

Anyway, what she said.  I've reported posts before a few times, but A) I have a really high tolerance for BS until it becomes a raging storm that I assume has been reported to death; B) I have no trolldar; and C) I'm usually hanging out in E&N.

What I won't report is stuff that I figure is just my own bias/preferences seeping through.



Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: General Jinjur on October 16, 2011, 06:32:47 AM
Is there a character limit to the explanation box when you report a post? Last time I reported a post it wasn't because the post itself was bad but because the entire thread seemed to be going downhill but I wasn't sure how much of an explanation I could put into the box so I was very short. Now I wonder if I can get a wordier explanation in if there is a next time.

You could always write, "Thread gone off rails. Send help."
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyL on October 16, 2011, 09:03:19 AM
Reports I send usually go something like:

"Thread getting political, instigated by this poster."
or
"Snarky response; thread getting heated."
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: iridaceae on October 16, 2011, 09:08:36 AM
I've only sent notifying of spam thread, unless I've accidentally hit the button once or twice and sent them when I didn't mean to.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: furrcats on October 16, 2011, 07:13:25 PM
Is there a character limit to the explanation box when you report a post? Last time I reported a post it wasn't because the post itself was bad but because the entire thread seemed to be going downhill but I wasn't sure how much of an explanation I could put into the box so I was very short. Now I wonder if I can get a wordier explanation in if there is a next time.

You could always write, "Thread gone off rails. Send help."


That's a great idea
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: AngelicGamer on October 16, 2011, 07:21:59 PM
Is there a character limit to the explanation box when you report a post? Last time I reported a post it wasn't because the post itself was bad but because the entire thread seemed to be going downhill but I wasn't sure how much of an explanation I could put into the box so I was very short. Now I wonder if I can get a wordier explanation in if there is a next time.

You could always write, "Thread gone off rails. Send help."


That's a great idea

I have done that before and it seems to work.  Or others sent in other complaints about the thread.  :D

Dame, I know you don't approve of them otherwise, but I think the mods and you should be allowed sock puppet accounts.  If only so you can have fun in your own home.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on October 17, 2011, 09:32:07 AM
I once came onto a thread in which I asked a poster why they had posted.  But please let me explain:  this was the 3rd time the OP had posted about a run in/confrontation they had had with a person in their life.  A few posters in the first 2 threads had said: (1) I can see why your frenemy behaved the way they did, or (2) you may have created or exacerbated the problem, or even (3) what could you have done differently.  And everytime the OP blew off the advice, or said the dissenters were wrong, just wrong, and her behavior was fine, it was this frenemy.

On the third thread, we are going through a different situation with the frenemy, but the underlying issue is the same.  A few people again start to point out what the OP is doing, and the OP lashed into them: it was not OP that is the problem, it is this frenemy!  There then came a small rash of posters (including me) who said: Why are you posting?  You go through the same thing every time, you react the same way every time, you blow off any attempt to look at your own part in this.  What do you want?  Validation for your behavior?  Obviously you are not going to get it because enough people are not agreeing with you.

The thread was locked shortly after, but I don't think those of us who asked the question were out of line.  None of them were snarky, and it was a very valid question, especially because this was the 3rd time.

In terms of reporting, I can say that about half the time I have reported (and I haven't done many) it was about a thread that I had not posted in.  When I have reported it has usually been for a specific comment that was outrageously snarky, or when a specific poster was warned and kept right on in the direction they had been heading.

One final comment: all this talk about pets and favoritism, I have no idea what is being discussed.  I rarely check the INAH folder, and am more likely to be in the Work or Life In General. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Wordgeek on October 17, 2011, 10:00:12 AM
If it's a generalized problem within the thread with a whole lotta guilty parties contributing, a comment like "thread getting heated / snippy / political / whatever" sends the right message.  If it's two people , do the same : "X and Y are derailing the thread", etc.

I've also closed threads because the OP wasn't actually interested in useful or constructive advice, but just wanted validation.

For grey areas, I find it useful for the members themselves to try and work things out.  By grey areas, I mean personality conflicts or differences in posting style or differences of opinion.  All the things that aren't really violations per se but are still grating.

For a wider problem not confined to one thread, the PM feature is a good tool.  Like EhellDame said, we have respect for those who use their judgment and discretion and have the good of the forum at heart.   Then the mods will post them in the mod folder and discuss the situation and how to handle it.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Two Ravens on October 17, 2011, 11:51:25 AM
If it's a generalized problem within the thread with a whole lotta guilty parties contributing, a comment like "thread getting heated / snippy / political / whatever" sends the right message.  If it's two people , do the same : "X and Y are derailing the thread", etc.

I've also closed threads because the OP wasn't actually interested in useful or constructive advice, but just wanted validation.

For grey areas, I find it useful for the members themselves to try and work things out.  By grey areas, I mean personality conflicts or differences in posting style or differences of opinion.  All the things that aren't really violations per se but are still grating.

For a wider problem not confined to one thread, the PM feature is a good tool.  Like EhellDame said, we have respect for those who use their judgment and discretion and have the good of the forum at heart.   Then the mods will post them in the mod folder and discuss the situation and how to handle it.

Who should we PM?  Just one mod?  All of them?  Do you guys have different areas, one for LIG, another for F&C, and so forth?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: furrcats on October 17, 2011, 02:01:36 PM
Thanks wordgreek that helps a lot
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Wordgeek on October 17, 2011, 02:50:16 PM
You can PM anyone.  If it's more urgent, look at Who's Online on the bottom of the front page.  The moderator's names show up in red or blue - PM whoever's around.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Giggity on October 17, 2011, 05:08:21 PM
You can PM anyone.  If it's more urgent, look at Who's Online on the bottom of the front page.  The moderator's names show up in red or blue - PM whoever's around.

Hey, thanks! (I learned something. That means I can go home early, right?)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Wordgeek on October 17, 2011, 06:57:22 PM
Gold star!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Giggity on October 17, 2011, 07:00:42 PM
Ima show my boss that tomorrow. In your FACE, world!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: realgonegal1 on October 18, 2011, 09:52:03 AM
All my threads go off the rails.  Must be something in the water here  ;)

Usually, I'm asking the mods to close a thread that I started.  :(

Clearly, I need to stick to lurking.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: wolfie on October 18, 2011, 10:27:33 AM
Do we need to PM a mod? Can't we just use the report button?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 18, 2011, 12:02:38 PM
Do we need to PM a mod? Can't we just use the report button?

PMing a mod was suggested for those problems that are not confined to one thread.
 
Using the report button only gives you a certain number of characters to explain something so I would guess that actually PMing a mod would give you a better chance to explain a more complicated circumstance.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: LadyL on October 18, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Do we need to PM a mod? Can't we just use the report button?

PMing a mod was suggested for those problems that are not confined to one thread.
 
Using the report button only gives you a certain number of characters to explain something so I would guess that actually PMing a mod would give you a better chance to explain a more complicated circumstance.

Thanks for clarifying this. Once in a blue moon there is a posting pattern that spans across threads that seems problematic to me, but is not appropriate to use the report function for. It's more of a meta issue with a poster. I never thought to PM a mod with a more detailed explanation but that's a great idea.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: kingsrings on October 18, 2011, 12:19:50 PM
I think you might be misunderstanding the problem, it's not about disagreement, it's about a bullish refusal to admit that there might be any other perspective to a problem. It's not the disagreement that is the problem, it's the lack of respect for other posters.

People are entitled to keep their opinions.  People don't have the right to demand that others see their side of things.  They can argue that its one way or another, and other people can disagree.  But, to call them out as disrespectful because they refuse to agree or acknowledge another POV, I think, isn't appropriate.

I have seen examples of responses to this and I do think they make the thread go downhill.
 
Catty comments like "but I guess nothing I say will change your mind..."
 
or

"it's obvious you just posted for validation because you are not admitting that you did anything wrong!"
 
Neither of those types of statements advance the discussion.
 
Another type of post that concerns me are the ones where people say "Why did you bother to post?"
 
These are all posts that turn the discussion onto the discussion.  Instead of discussing the topic at hand, posters start discussing the discussion and their fellow posters and how they are discussing.

It turns it into a "meta" thread.

The rules have always been that if you have a problem with someone that you should take it to PM.  I think that doing that or reporting the post to a moderator is much better than turning the thread in on itself.

I dislike that as well Ė a poster will get irritated because the OP doesnít just automatically change their minds upon reading responses that they donít agree with. Comments like that just arenít helpful at all and lead the discussion into a downward spiral of snarkiness.

As for taking the discussion to PM, if it can be done civilly, then go for it. But sometimes they donít in PM because not everybody can see it, just the two posters. And some posters donít want to PM discuss anything, so they would see anyone sending them a PM as something bad and inflammatory.

Ignoring someone you have a problem with (or their post) is the best bet, but that has to be respected by the board. Too many times posters who ignore are then negatively called out for doing so. Again, that doesnít add anything but snarkiness to the discussion,
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: aventurine on October 19, 2011, 12:06:07 AM
I think you might be misunderstanding the problem, it's not about disagreement, it's about a bullish refusal to admit that there might be any other perspective to a problem. It's not the disagreement that is the problem, it's the lack of respect for other posters.

I dislike that as well Ė a poster will get irritated because the OP doesnít just automatically change their minds upon reading responses that they donít agree with. Comments like that just arenít helpful at all and lead the discussion into a downward spiral of snarkiness.

I don't think anyone expects or wants everyone to agree, or that every thread has to reach a consensus.  That'd be boring.  But I can think of a few times when the OP was behaving tantamount to sticking fingers in ears and yelling LALALALAICAN'THEARYOU, and that's childish and annoying. 

It's perfectly possible to acknowledge other viewpoints as valid, even if the OP doesn't agree, and it's useful to forestall the thread snowballing.  How many times have we all seen dogpiling occur when the OP refused to answer a seemingly simple question?  As painful and/or distasteful as it may be to acknowledge an opposing viewpoint, it's the mature thing to do. 

(Of course, sometimes when OP doesn't agree with an opposing viewpoint they get accused of not getting it, but that's a whoooole 'nother issue.)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: DuBois on October 19, 2011, 02:11:51 AM
I think you might be misunderstanding the problem, it's not about disagreement, it's about a bullish refusal to admit that there might be any other perspective to a problem. It's not the disagreement that is the problem, it's the lack of respect for other posters.

I dislike that as well Ė a poster will get irritated because the OP doesnít just automatically change their minds upon reading responses that they donít agree with. Comments like that just arenít helpful at all and lead the discussion into a downward spiral of snarkiness.

I don't think anyone expects or wants everyone to agree, or that every thread has to reach a consensus.  That'd be boring.  But I can think of a few times when the OP was behaving tantamount to sticking fingers in ears and yelling LALALALAICAN'THEARYOU, and that's childish and annoying. 

It's perfectly possible to acknowledge other viewpoints as valid, even if the OP doesn't agree, and it's useful to forestall the thread snowballing.  How many times have we all seen dogpiling occur when the OP refused to answer a seemingly simple question?  As painful and/or distasteful as it may be to acknowledge an opposing viewpoint, it's the mature thing to do. 

(Of course, sometimes when OP doesn't agree with an opposing viewpoint they get accused of not getting it, but that's a whoooole 'nother issue.)

I think that sometimes ignoring is quite valid, though. The OP is not the only poster in a thread who is not owed vaildation: nobody posting here is. A lot of people say that 'the OP shouldn't look for validation' and neither they should. But then neither should people who are pointing out things. I think it's easy to forget sometimes that the OP is the one who knows the situation. I had a thread a while back where I got very frustrated because a few posters (NOT the majority) seemed determined that the situation was all my fault. I did interact, when I should just have ignored. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: jaxsue on October 29, 2011, 07:34:03 AM
I often use my iPad to read ehell, and sometimes I accidentally hit the "report" option. I'm not trying to to report the poster at all - if I were I'd send a message as to why I was reporting them, and I do that sparingly.

I hope the mods don't think I'm a serial- reporter!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Ehelldame on October 29, 2011, 08:09:20 AM
I often use my iPad to read ehell, and sometimes I accidentally hit the "report" option. I'm not trying to to report the poster at all - if I were I'd send a message as to why I was reporting them, and I do that sparingly.

I hope the mods don't think I'm a serial- reporter!

Nah.  It's the serial reporters who write ridiculous reasons for why they are reporting.  "If you change the gender, flip the person upside down, paint the room purple, this comment would be offensive."   
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Luci on October 29, 2011, 09:42:12 AM
I often use my iPad to read ehell, and sometimes I accidentally hit the "report" option. I'm not trying to to report the poster at all - if I were I'd send a message as to why I was reporting them, and I do that sparingly.

I hope the mods don't think I'm a serial- reporter!

Nah.  It's the serial reporters who write ridiculous reasons for why they are reporting.  "If you change the gender, flip the person upside down, paint the room purple, this comment would be offensive."   

It doesn't get reported unless we tap "Submit" on the report screen, does it?

I accidentally tap or click "Report to Moderator" almost daily. I'm pretty clumsy.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: jaxsue on October 29, 2011, 11:15:37 AM
I often use my iPad to read ehell, and sometimes I accidentally hit the "report" option. I'm not trying to to report the poster at all - if I were I'd send a message as to why I was reporting them, and I do that sparingly.

I hope the mods don't think I'm a serial- reporter!

Nah.  It's the serial reporters who write ridiculous reasons for why they are reporting.  "If you change the gender, flip the person upside down, paint the room purple, this comment would be offensive."

Good to know.  :)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Addy on October 29, 2011, 11:04:59 PM

It doesn't get reported unless we tap "Submit" on the report screen, does it?

I accidentally tap or click "Report to Moderator" almost daily. I'm pretty clumsy.

Oh, I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one to do this!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Twik on October 31, 2011, 10:17:07 AM
Me too. Hope we're not doing the equivalent of dialling 911 and then hanging up!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: AngelicGamer on October 31, 2011, 01:16:37 PM
Me too. Hope we're not doing the equivalent of dialling 911 and then hanging up!

I've done that.  They call you back and you politely explain that you were trying to dial a different number.  Now, imagine doing that in a hospital when you're trying to get an outside line -->  ::) at myself
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: hobish on October 31, 2011, 02:16:36 PM
Me too. Hope we're not doing the equivalent of dialling 911 and then hanging up!

I've done that.  They call you back and you politely explain that you were trying to dial a different number.  Now, imagine doing that in a hospital when you're trying to get an outside line -->  ::) at myself

You are lucky. In my area they send a patrol car out regardless. Very embarrassing.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Twik on October 31, 2011, 02:17:37 PM
hobish - oh, dear, that WOULD be embarrassing!
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 31, 2011, 02:19:41 PM
Me too. Hope we're not doing the equivalent of dialling 911 and then hanging up!

I've done that.  They call you back and you politely explain that you were trying to dial a different number.  Now, imagine doing that in a hospital when you're trying to get an outside line -->  ::) at myself

You are lucky. In my area they send a patrol car out regardless. Very embarrassing.

My middle son did this when he was about 6 years old.  I think he wanted to find out what happens when you call 911.  He found out that they send out a patrol car and the policeman explains what 911 is and why its for emergencies only to the young boy who wanted to know.  ;)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: AngelicGamer on October 31, 2011, 03:57:52 PM
Me too. Hope we're not doing the equivalent of dialling 911 and then hanging up!

I've done that.  They call you back and you politely explain that you were trying to dial a different number.  Now, imagine doing that in a hospital when you're trying to get an outside line -->  ::) at myself

You are lucky. In my area they send a patrol car out regardless. Very embarrassing.

I'm thinking that they have caller ID or something and knew it was the hospital.  For the other time, I think I just got lucky.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: rashea on October 31, 2011, 04:06:03 PM
Me too. Hope we're not doing the equivalent of dialling 911 and then hanging up!

I've done that.  They call you back and you politely explain that you were trying to dial a different number.  Now, imagine doing that in a hospital when you're trying to get an outside line -->  ::) at myself

You are lucky. In my area they send a patrol car out regardless. Very embarrassing.

I'm thinking that they have caller ID or something and knew it was the hospital.  For the other time, I think I just got lucky.

It depends, the ones in my area have different policies based on who calls. Mistakes from the domestic violence office, got a patrol car no matter what we said. Mistakes from home, got a call back. Having talked to them, mistakes from numbers where there has been trouble before, get a car either way if they have time.

Makes sense to me. They send someone out if they think it will be needed, or there is a chance someone isn't speaking honestly.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Klein Bottle on November 01, 2011, 06:38:06 PM
LOL, my child called 911 twice as a toddler.  It was a learning curve for us, I guess, but we learned to keep the phone out of his reach after the second time.    ;)  Both times, the dispatcher just called back to make sure everything was OK; evidently, it wasn't her first rodeo with a baby playing with a phone.    ;)  (I apologized profusely, BTW.)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: cass2591 on November 01, 2011, 07:03:49 PM
My best friend unknowingly called 911 when she got a new phone and was trying to program 911 into it. Then a patrol car showed up and her husband, totally clueless, answered the door and had no idea who called 911 or why. Yeah, they were very interested in talking to his wife, who came downstairs when she heard them all talking. She explained the situation and they were fine with it.

A few months ago I was looking at new cell phones. One had a specific button for 911. No way was I going to buy that phone because it was too easy to press it accidentally and I'm klutzy enough to do it.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Scritzy on November 01, 2011, 10:56:35 PM
When I worked at the parish, I was trying to make an overseas call and missed a number, making it 911. Since the parochial school was in the parish house at the time, the cops came running quickly. They were okay with my explanation, but they scared the life out of me.

I used to have 911 programmed into my cell phone, but not any more.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Eisa on November 02, 2011, 08:10:46 AM
This reminds me of how my phone keeps worrying me. It has a feature where you can enable key guard. Which is all well and good. But somehow if/when buttons are pushed, 9 always seems to come up and I go eep! because I know it would be far too easy to somehow dial 9-1-1 and then have to explain that no, there really isn't an emergency. :-[ I'm just waiting for my phone to dial 911 itself. :P
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Gabrielle on November 02, 2011, 07:05:46 PM
This reminds me of how my phone keeps worrying me. It has a feature where you can enable key guard. Which is all well and good. But somehow if/when buttons are pushed, 9 always seems to come up and I go eep! because I know it would be far too easy to somehow dial 9-1-1 and then have to explain that no, there really isn't an emergency. :-[ I'm just waiting for my phone to dial 911 itself. :P

Most phones will let you dial 911 even with the key guard on. So if lots of buttons are mashed in your pocket and a 9 is hit, it will come up but not a 7 or a 3 and so on. I guess the idea is that when you're calling 911 you don't want to be fluffing around with a keyguard, but it just makes me nervous.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: cass2591 on November 02, 2011, 07:45:25 PM
We call that "butt dialing" in my house, only luckily nobody's ever called 911.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: MamaMootz on November 02, 2011, 08:20:23 PM
DD did the same thing when she was a toddler (3 or 4, I can't remember). At school, you see, they taught her a song:

9-1-1, 9-1-1
Call it and police will come
Policemen, fireman, ambulance too
9-1-1 is there for you

And she was singing it for a few days. Well, one morning I was in the shower and when I got out, there was DD with the phone...

"Mommy, I called 9-1-1 so I could teach them the song." :o


Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Scritzy on November 02, 2011, 10:33:19 PM
I'm blessed with a phone that locks the screen when it's not in use, so it won't dial when it's in my pocket or purse.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Spoder on November 02, 2011, 11:02:21 PM
I'm blessed with a phone that locks the screen when it's not in use, so it won't dial when it's in my pocket or purse.

Yeah, mine does too - *except*, it's got a special 'emergency' icon in the centre of the screen that will dial 000 if pressed, even when the phone's locked.  ::). Asking for trouble with a klutz like me!

(Interesting factoid that I heard years ago: Australian kids were watching so many American movies/tv shows where people shouted 'Call 911!!' in an emergency, that they were trying to call our emergency services using 911 instead of 000 - which has always been the Australian number!)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: lollylegs on November 03, 2011, 12:03:54 AM
I'm blessed with a phone that locks the screen when it's not in use, so it won't dial when it's in my pocket or purse.

Yeah, mine does too - *except*, it's got a special 'emergency' icon in the centre of the screen that will dial 000 if pressed, even when the phone's locked.  ::). Asking for trouble with a klutz like me!

(Interesting factoid that I heard years ago: Australian kids were watching so many American movies/tv shows where people shouted 'Call 911!!' in an emergency, that they were trying to call our emergency services using 911 instead of 000 - which has always been the Australian number!)

Because of the show Rescue 911 I dialled 911 when my aunt had a heart attack (I was 7). It redirected to 000.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Unusual Banana on November 03, 2011, 05:28:37 AM
I'm blessed with a phone that locks the screen when it's not in use, so it won't dial when it's in my pocket or purse.

Yeah, mine does too - *except*, it's got a special 'emergency' icon in the centre of the screen that will dial 000 if pressed, even when the phone's locked.  ::). Asking for trouble with a klutz like me!

(Interesting factoid that I heard years ago: Australian kids were watching so many American movies/tv shows where people shouted 'Call 911!!' in an emergency, that they were trying to call our emergency services using 911 instead of 000 - which has always been the Australian number!)

Because of the show Rescue 911 I dialled 911 when my aunt had a heart attack (I was 7). It redirected to 000.

When I was about nine I dialled 911, not expecting it to connect me to emergency services since the emergency number here is 111. I don't remember what I was expecting it to do.

It redirected to 111 and I said "sorry, wrong number" and hung up.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: threepenny on November 04, 2011, 06:30:21 AM
Are we allowed to report avatars?  There is one that just turns my stomach, and I am a pretty easy going person.  But - do I REALLY need to see someone sticking out her tongue repeatedly?  I think I have reported this but, ewww - not classy at all, and not what I would expect from an etiquette forum.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Luci on November 04, 2011, 06:39:26 AM
Are we allowed to report avatars?  There is one that just turns my stomach, and I am a pretty easy going person.  But - do I REALLY need to see someone sticking out their tongue repeatedly?  I think I have reported this but, ewww - not classy at all, and not what I would expect from an etiquette forum.

I did, and I guess I wasn't alone or the poster thought better of it because it did go away.

We can report anything, then it is up to the mods to deal with its importance.

Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: threepenny on November 04, 2011, 06:53:13 AM
No, I saw a recent one with the same avatar.  I guess you and I are in a minority. I find it just gross, and I am not one to be easily offended.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: iradney on November 04, 2011, 09:37:05 AM
Are we allowed to report avatars?  There is one that just turns my stomach, and I am a pretty easy going person.  But - do I REALLY need to see someone sticking out her tongue repeatedly?  I think I have reported this but, ewww - not classy at all, and not what I would expect from an etiquette forum.

I'm afraid I respectfully disagree with you there. Playfully sticking one's tongue is not "not classy at all". If said tongue has masticated food all over it, or an infection of some sort, then yes, definitely gross. But a normal, split second view of a tongue being stuck out? I see nothin wrong with that. Then again, my avatar is a cartoonified version of internal organs sharing blood, could that be regarded as offensive?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: JoieGirl7 on November 04, 2011, 12:10:18 PM
Are we allowed to report avatars?  There is one that just turns my stomach, and I am a pretty easy going person.  But - do I REALLY need to see someone sticking out her tongue repeatedly?  I think I have reported this but, ewww - not classy at all, and not what I would expect from an etiquette forum.

I'm afraid I respectfully disagree with you there. Playfully sticking one's tongue is not "not classy at all". If said tongue has masticated food all over it, or an infection of some sort, then yes, definitely gross. But a normal, split second view of a tongue being stuck out? I see nothin wrong with that. Then again, my avatar is a cartoonified version of internal organs sharing blood, could that be regarded as offensive?

Its up to the mods and Ehell Dame to determine whether something is offensive or disruptive for the site.  I would imagine that if a great many people reported someone's avatar that would hold a lot more weight than the random person who is offended by something.
 
So, you can report an avatar, you can report a thread, you can report a poster--that doesn't mean that the avatar/thread/poster will be moderated.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: bestimw on November 07, 2011, 08:41:59 PM
I know what avatar you're speaking about.  It is distracting to me, but not offensive.  I just hit the stop loading button on my tool bar and freeze her.  I make it a little game, to try to time it so it's just a smile.  Works on any animated avatar.  (I guess I'm easily distracted.)
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: TeamBhakta on November 07, 2011, 09:46:25 PM
Me too. Hope we're not doing the equivalent of dialling 911 and then hanging up!

I've done that.  They call you back and you politely explain that you were trying to dial a different number.  Now, imagine doing that in a hospital when you're trying to get an outside line -->  ::) at myself

You are lucky. In my area they send a patrol car out regardless. Very embarrassing.

You know what's embarassing ? Leaving your phone in your purse for an 8 hour car trip, getting home and discovering your phone is on hour 8 of an accidental voicemail message to a crush  :o  He probably thought I was a perv, leaving him 8 hours of *jostle, scratch, jostle, muffled voice* 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Paper Roses on November 07, 2011, 10:08:17 PM
No, I saw a recent one with the same avatar.  I guess you and I are in a minority. I find it just gross, and I am not one to be easily offended.

For what it's worth, I'm with you two in that minority.  I find that particular avatar very grating.  I don't necessarily find it offensive, just extremely . . . I don't know, annoying, I guess, is the word.  I actually can't read that person's posts at all; I find myself quickly scrolling past to get it off the screen.  And before everyone jumps up to tell me you can make it stop by hitting "escape," I know that - but there's a good chance that will stop it with the tongue sticking out, which irks me.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Shores on November 07, 2011, 10:25:11 PM
Have any of you considered PMing the person rather than talking about her here?
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: JoieGirl7 on November 07, 2011, 10:46:26 PM
Have any of you considered PMing the person rather than talking about her here?

Gotta go POD on this one.
 
The avatar has apparently been reported and probably deemed not offensive or disruptive.

And I don't think its fair to that poster to talk about it like this. 
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: General Jinjur on November 08, 2011, 10:10:51 AM
I agree. Tell her your feelings and let her decide if she wants to change it or not.
Title: Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on November 08, 2011, 10:36:09 AM
re:avatars

Since this forum is one of the sites that isn't yet blocked at work, I keep my view of this forum to text only.  You can turn off whether you see somebody else's avatars.