Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: LadyMisha on October 20, 2011, 05:59:12 PM

Title: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on October 20, 2011, 05:59:12 PM
Hi gang,

Y'all might remember, we had a stray show up in our yard 2 weeks after our beloved English Bully passed away.  After a weekend of seeing no missing dog fliers, we took him to our vet.  He had heartworms, whipworms and hookworms, along with nails that were so long only the major footpad touched the ground, none of the toepads, a really badly bleeding open sore on his tail that sprayed/slung blood everywhere when he wagged his tail and he was completely emaciated for his dog type (pit bull/rottweiler mix) weighing in at 40 lbs. 

After we took him to the vet, we did a lot of soul searching.  Did we want to take on this dog, knowing his medical issues.  In reasoning it out, this dog has the temperament of a Golden Retriever (would rather be loved on than eat) and quite honestly came to the conclusion that maybe the reason he had come into our lives 2 weeks to the day that we'd lost our baby Tinky (short for Tinkerbell - I know, weird name for an English Bulldog!) was that she'd had cancer and was beginning to suffer and God decided that instead of making her suffer, he would provide us with someone else who really needed love and a chance for a good home.  So, with that in our minds/hearts, we made the decision to make the commitment and keep Rocky for our own.

The next day, while my DD was walking him, one of the neighborhood kids came up to her and told her that was so and so's dog from 2 streets over.  She called and told us about it, filling us in on how the kid said they never paid the dog any attention and that he'd been kept in a 4 x 6 foot kennel for the past three years, no matter what the weather was like.  Given that information and his other health problems (our vet said that without treatment, he was about a week away from death from the worms), we decided there was no way in Hades they were getting that dog back to continue to mistreat him.  I called Animal Control and he told me to take him to the pound and put down the adoption fee right when we turned him in.  That way, the only people who could come and get him would be the owners, and since he had no current shots, heartworms, whipworms, hookworms, no license, had been running loose and many other various and sundry fines, they would be unlikely to even try to get him.  He was correct and we adopted our baby boy from the pound.  They also neutered him, offered us heartworm treatment at cost and microchipped him to us.  He is wholly and legally ours.

Which leads me to our current situation.  Rocky is not trustworthy off-leash.  He LOVES nothing more than to run.  So, for potty times, we take him out and leash walk him in our yard.  I was walking Precious (yet another of our adoptions :) ) and DH was walking Rocky.  I heard a group of about 4 boys walking across the street and staring in amazement, saying, Hey, that's Rocky!  After listening to them for a few minutes, I confirmed that yes, that was Rocky.  One of the kids said, that's HIS dog!  I calmly answered them, no, he is our dog, we adopted him from the pound.  The boy who used to have him asked how we could have adopted his dog and I told him that we'd legally adopted him from the pound and got him medical attention for his heartworms, whipworms and hookworms.  I told him that the vet had said he was about a week away from dying when we brought him in and got him started on treatment.  He then remarked on how big he was.  I told him yes, when we found him he was only 40 pounds.  He's now the ideal weight for his bone size and weighs about 65 pounds now.  He then asked if he could come and pet him.  I told him he was welcome to come and see him anytime he wanted, as long as either me or my husband was home. 

My etiquette question - how do I handle it when his parents (and I'm sure he's going to tell them all about this rendezvous) come over and question us.  What I totally want to say is neither etiquette approved nor is it in any realm acceptable - because I'll be honest, I'm still mad that anyone would treat an animal that way.  I also don't want to start a feud with my neighbor (or any more of a feud than there has to be).  I need some politically and etiquettely (is that even a word?) answers that will hopefully prevent or diffuse a possibly tense situation.  Particularly when I know what we've spent on getting him back to a healthy state (let's just say it is well beyond hundreds and into thousands) and there is now way I am giving him up to those people who mistreated him so badly and didn't bother even looking at the pound when he had "run away" like the boy said.  Had they bothered to look, they would have seen him because they had him there for over a week with all of the medical treatments they were giving him on top of what we'd sent in from our vet.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: SamiHami on October 20, 2011, 06:09:43 PM
I would also have a very difficult time being polite to someone who had abused an animal. If they have the nerve to come to your house, in your position I would be frostily polite and tell them simply that the dog is legally yours now. I would not be offering them (or their child) the opportunity to visit with Rocky.

If they pushed the issue and tried to give you any sort of grief, I would simply point out that you are the owner of this animal and that if they had any issues with that, they were welcome to contact the police to discuss it.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Larrabee on October 20, 2011, 06:16:47 PM
I think its really kind of you to let the child visit, if that's how they 'care' for their dog I bet he isn't having a great time either.  :(

You just need to be firm if this comes up I'm afraid.  You are 100% in the right, you were wise to do the adoption formally and by the book.  Do you have any paperwork showing that he's yours?  Is he microchipped to you?  If yes just show them those details if there's any question of them wanting him back.

Here's to many happy years with Rocky, he had a lucky escape and he's landed on his feet, that's the most important thing!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Knitterly on October 20, 2011, 06:18:21 PM
I would have a tough time, but do you really think the parents are going to come over after they way they treated the dog (and they way they know you know they treated him)?  Obviously they don't miss him or want him.

I think you can be matter-of-fact and tell them (if they even approach you) that you adopted this dog, and if they try to claim him, you have all the papers to say he is yours, fair and square. 

Somehow I doubt they will try claim him back from you.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Isisnin on October 20, 2011, 06:23:50 PM
What wonderful thing for you to do.  Kudos.

If you hear from them, it will be hard to be polite, but it's probably a "more flies with honey" situation.  Keep it light and pleasant.

"Oh we got him from the pound."  If they keep saying that the dog is theirs:  "you need to speak to the pound about that".

I'd be surprised if they mention the medical issues.  If they do, just say that "the pound neutered and heart wormed him."  that sounds like normal procedure.  anything else they might get defensive and thus by become more difficult.

Since you're letting the boy come visit the dog (again kudos to you), it doesn't sound like the boy will campaign to get his dog back.  And sounds like the parent didn't want the dog.  You may not hear from them.  Here's hopin'!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: WillyNilly on October 20, 2011, 06:24:25 PM
I think you should photocopy the adoption papers. And if you want, dated vet bills as well. If the come knocking just say "he was found stray, turned into the pound and we legally adopted him."
Show the the paperwork (copies so they can't snatch them and rip them up). Close the door/walk away. Repeat as necessary.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: heartmug on October 20, 2011, 06:26:07 PM
I think you tell the parents what you told the kid:  you adopted Rocky from the pound.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: LadyMisha on October 20, 2011, 06:31:08 PM
I would not be offering them (or their child) the opportunity to visit with Rocky.

If they pushed the issue and tried to give you any sort of grief, I would simply point out that you are the owner of this animal and that if they had any issues with that, they were welcome to contact the police to discuss it.

Good idea on the "welcome to contact" deal.  Hadn't thought about that.

But, I'm not going to bar the kid from Rocky.  It isn't the kids fault, and you could see that he did care for him.  He spent a happy five minutes scratching him behind the ears (which Rocky absolutely adored) and kept remarking on how big he was.  We kept reiterating that he was dangerously close to dying when we'd found him - the poor kid seemed both shocked and chagrined by that.  I can't hold a boy of around 10 responsible for his crappy parents.  And as a pp pointed out, this kid might not be having such an easy time of it himself.  I'm not about to deny him something that gives both him and Rocky pleasure.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: LadyMisha on October 20, 2011, 06:32:24 PM
I think you should photocopy the adoption papers. And if you want, dated vet bills as well. If the come knocking just say "he was found stray, turned into the pound and we legally adopted him."
Show the the paperwork (copies so they can't snatch them and rip them up). Close the door/walk away. Repeat as necessary.

Again, another excellent idea.  I'll make copies tomorrow.  Thanks, y'all.  I knew if I came on here I'd get some help in keeping it calm and collected.  I'll be honest, I just want to punch the kids parents in the nose.   :-\
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: leftout on October 20, 2011, 06:34:00 PM
Wow, what a tough situation. It's possible (hopefully!) the confrontation with the previous owners never comes up since they might not want to deal with a dog lover knowing that they weren't taking care of their dog appropriately. They might even be relieved that they're no longer responsible for Rocky. And part of me thinks "these people" might not want a neutered dog anyway. What a great suggestion from the obviously-caring animal control officer that you bring him in and put down the adoption fee, and it's fantastic you followed through with the completely by-the-book adoption. I'm sure it was hard walking the dog into the shelter, but you did good! You've had a practice run now with the child in explaining that yes, you've heard the dog used to belong to their family but that he was found as a stray, sick and emaciated, and that you adopted him, nursed him back to health, and he's now a part of your family. The same explanation can be used for the parents. And good work on the microchip and microchip registration in your name. With a known runner puppy, that could be key to any question over his ownership.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: delphinium on October 20, 2011, 07:08:37 PM
Kudos to you and your husband for taking in Rocky and the other stray(s).  What a lucky dog he is.  May you have many years of enjoyment with him and your other dogs. :)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Klein Bottle on October 20, 2011, 07:14:25 PM
I think its really kind of you to let the child visit, if that's how they 'care' for their dog I bet he isn't having a great time either.  :(

You just need to be firm if this comes up I'm afraid.  You are 100% in the right, you were wise to do the adoption formally and by the book.  Do you have any paperwork showing that he's yours?  Is he microchipped to you?  If yes just show them those details if there's any question of them wanting him back.

Here's to many happy years with Rocky, he had a lucky escape and he's landed on his feet, that's the most important thing!

This, so much.  All of it. 
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Cuddlepie on October 20, 2011, 08:15:19 PM
Rocky must be extremely happy that he 'chose' you to give him a happy home.  He is one smart dog, eh?

It is very kind to allow the kid to visit.  Listen carefully to anything he says as his words many clue you in how his parents feel about the situation.  Also, I would not be giving him too much information about Rocky (how you found him and vet visits etc).  Less info for parents and less fodder for them to try and start an argument with, if that's the road they go down.  My feeling is they won't, but be prepared if they do.

If parents contact you, refer them to the shelter where they will be trained to deal with owners such as them.

Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Ceallach on October 20, 2011, 08:19:15 PM
I also want to point out that this kids only previous experience with animals may be through the poor example his parents have set.  By allowing the kid to visit, you may well be showing him an alternate, better way of treating a pet, and perhaps prevent him turning into an adult who mistreats animals further down the line.   

So I think it is definitely the right thing to do if possible (assuming he doesn't cause any issues).
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: boxy on October 20, 2011, 08:27:21 PM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog. 
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: leftout on October 20, 2011, 08:34:05 PM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

I think it's admirable for the reasons previous posters have pointed out. It's possible the child has never seen loving care before and this could be an incredible teaching moment. People can learn, especially children, to change their ways. And it's best when done by example.

[As an example, an (adult) friend of mine had a chained-up backyard dog who she spent minimal time with. After hearing about and seeing the great time the rest of us had hanging out with our dogs, she decided to buy a leash and take her dog out on his first outing in the 7 years she'd had him. He loved it!]
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Jaelle on October 20, 2011, 08:37:37 PM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: gramma dishes on October 20, 2011, 08:42:09 PM
I think you've done everything flawlessly.  Taking the dog to the shelter, adopting him legally, having him microchipped. 

If the original owners ever contact you regarding the dog, I'd simply stress that you adopted him through the shelter and you have papers showing that he is legally yours.

The fact that the dog seemed reasonably happy to be petted by the boy indicates that HE at least was not mean to the dog, even though the parents may have been unbelievably neglectful.  I see that as a good sign and am glad, at least for now, that you're allowing the boy and dog to have a relationship.   I would not extend that to the parents though.

You have a good heart.  Rocky has found the right home.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: yokozbornak on October 20, 2011, 08:46:22 PM
I would be worried that they would try to kidnap the dog (why, yes, I do watch too much Judge Judy!  ;)) which is why I probably wouldn't encourage the boy to come over.  People who will treat a dog like that would probably not let papers from the pound prevent them from taking the dog back if they had access to him.  Do you think he's safe?
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: LadyMisha on October 20, 2011, 10:22:44 PM
I'm sure it was hard walking the dog into the shelter, but you did good! You've had a practice run now with the child in explaining that yes, you've heard the dog used to belong to their family but that he was found as a stray, sick and emaciated, and that you adopted him, nursed him back to health, and he's now a part of your family. The same explanation can be used for the parents. And good work on the microchip and microchip registration in your name. With a known runner puppy, that could be key to any question over his ownership.

Oh, man, it was so hard walking him into the shelter.  I do want to share a sweet story on our boy while we were checking him in though.  We're filling out the adoption paperwork at the front desk and DH had Rocky on leash.  A man came in with his son who was very clearly developmentally delayed.  The son asked if he could pet Rocky.  We said yes, and Rocky - and I still don't know how he knew to do this at that point - sat down when the boy came over to him and simply looked up at him and I swear that dog smiled at the kid!  The son was absolutely thrilled and stroked Rocky's head and ears with Rocky grinning at him the entire time.  It brought tears to my eyes.  That, if nothing else, absolutely cemented that we wanted this dog as part of our family.  He's amazing!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: LadyMisha on October 20, 2011, 10:30:15 PM
I would be worried that they would try to kidnap the dog (why, yes, I do watch too much Judge Judy!  ;)) which is why I probably wouldn't encourage the boy to come over.  People who will treat a dog like that would probably not let papers from the pound prevent them from taking the dog back if they had access to him.  Do you think he's safe?

Annnnd you bopped that nail right on the head.  That was a thought that passed through my mind and then came back and stuck.  I don't think it is realistic that they would try it, but you just never know.  However, he is in our house (along with our other three - yeah, it's a zoo around here!) except for potty times, when he is on leash so there is really no window of opportunity for someone to dognap him. 

But, as I said before, I'm not going to bar the boy from Rocky.  He can't be held responsible for what his parents allowed to happen to Rocky.  Even if the boy was feeding him himself, there was no way Rocky could have gained any weight with all of the worms he had (and believe me, that took 3 treatments just for the whip/hook worms - he still has the heartworms).  Besides, I saw that child's face as he stroked Rocky.  He loved him.  I just can't do that to a kid. 
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Animala on October 20, 2011, 11:37:55 PM
I don't have any advice, but I wanted to say that I think you are awesome.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Doll Fiend on October 21, 2011, 01:21:27 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/lpski1/Misc%20Gifs/worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Steve on October 21, 2011, 02:11:24 AM
Sounds like you might be adding a stray boy to your stray dog. :)

I applaud you for allowing this boy to visit with the dog, you will be doing a lot more good than by caring for the dog alone.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Amava on October 21, 2011, 05:34:36 AM
I also want to point out that this kids only previous experience with animals may be through the poor example his parents have set.  By allowing the kid to visit, you may well be showing him an alternate, better way of treating a pet, and perhaps prevent him turning into an adult who mistreats animals further down the line.   

So I think it is definitely the right thing to do if possible (assuming he doesn't cause any issues).

Yes!!! I agree! To me, it's equally important that you are setting a good example of dog ownership to the child as it is that you are taking responsibility for this animal.

Yes, I agree as well.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Yvaine on October 21, 2011, 06:52:50 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/lpski1/Misc%20Gifs/worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif)

Yes, I think puppy pics are necessary in order for us to properly evaluate the squeeful adorableness of your new dog.  ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: SiotehCat on October 21, 2011, 07:01:09 AM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: HoneyBee42 on October 21, 2011, 07:35:43 AM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.
A 10yo boy is not able to provide those things for a dog w/o parental assistance.  Things like regular vet visits are also rather off the radar for a 10yo, especially as it sounds like the parents aren't thinking of vet bills as part of the expense of taking care of a dog. 

I'm rather reminded of my ex who was the one who insisted we get a dog--oldest son and I objected because we knew we'd be the ones doing all the work.  He kept harping on it being a "free dog" because he got it from a friend whose dogs had puppies (I also ended up being the only one who carted her to her vet appointments and had to beg for the money to pay for those visits from him.)  Of course, we also ended up with the dog and she's likely to have to go w/ oldest son when he moves out because she is more his dog than anyone else's.  Ex used to always get mad at us for keeping the dog in the house with us instead of tying her up in the yard, too.

I think the parents are less likely to bother about the dog since the child gets access .. in the mind of people like that, their child gets all the fun of a dog without any of the costs (or more worrisome, they may be the sort who just gets another to treat it the same way as the first).  At least this way, the boy will be able to see what pet ownership is supposed to look like.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on October 21, 2011, 09:05:49 AM
Oh, man, it was so hard walking him into the shelter.  I do want to share a sweet story on our boy while we were checking him in though.  We're filling out the adoption paperwork at the front desk and DH had Rocky on leash.  A man came in with his son who was very clearly developmentally delayed.  The son asked if he could pet Rocky.  We said yes, and Rocky - and I still don't know how he knew to do this at that point - sat down when the boy came over to him and simply looked up at him and I swear that dog smiled at the kid!  The son was absolutely thrilled and stroked Rocky's head and ears with Rocky grinning at him the entire time.  It brought tears to my eyes.  That, if nothing else, absolutely cemented that we wanted this dog as part of our family.  He's amazing!

Some dogs just have such an instinctive over and above response to humans.  I always find it so amazing that some dogs seem to know exactly what you are thinking.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Twik on October 21, 2011, 09:24:00 AM

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Not if he's not been taught what's enough to keep an animal alive. And even if he does, what is he going to do? Drive to the store, and pull out his credit card to buy a new doghouse and plenty of puppy chow?
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Steve on October 21, 2011, 09:36:50 AM
I have to agree with Twik, my DD's are learning to care for our animals (rabbits, cat, fish) but we have to tell them how much the cat needs, they do not know it all by themselves. Fortunately our cat is very understanding and will tell me when he gets too little right away :).
If parents are not that involved, then I do not think the kids would guess it is too little or too much. Also: they need to learn the discipline involved in : "Yes it is raining, yes it is cold, yes it is early, but your rabbit still needs his food and water."

I hope this boy can pick that up from the OP.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on October 21, 2011, 09:41:48 AM
I had a random thought and I dont know what to say about it.

the dog had many many different types of worms, some of these worms can cross to people and cause major issues, including blindness in children.

I dont know how you would deal with this info, but, I am worried about the previous owner child boy.

Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Lisbeth on October 21, 2011, 10:00:41 AM
I'd refer the kid's parents to the pound and your vet.

Edited to add:  The above is etiquette advice; I'd also consider consulting an attorney for legal advice to make sure that the kid and his family cannot have contact with you or with the dog, if that's possible.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Lisbeth on October 21, 2011, 10:17:18 AM

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

I agree with Twik on this, how would a 10 or even a 15 year old child know how to look after an animal if he has never been taught how?  I blame the parents for not looking after the dog & for letting their child think this is okay.

The parents may never have been taught how either, or they may have assumed their kid knew.  I would think a 15 year old at least should be held responsible for his own pet.  Maybe that's what the parents were doing-trying to make him be responsible for whatever he took on for himself.

That said, it does look like they did a poor job of parenting if they realized the dog was in trouble, and did nothing about it.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: WillyNilly on October 21, 2011, 10:19:30 AM

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

I agree with Twik on this, how would a 10 or even a 15 year old child know how to look after an animal if he has never been taught how?  I blame the parents for not looking after the dog & for letting their child think this is okay.

When I was 13 my parents finally got me a cat (actually 2!) after years of pleading.  They were to be my responsibility solely. My parents had no previous experience as pet owners whatsoever.

I knew they needed food & water etc, but honestly?  I had no idea how much.  One can a day each?  Two cans a day each?  A cup of dry food?  1/2 a cup?  The bags had some hint as to how much to feed them but cans were poorly labeled.  This was before internet.  I basically winged it for a while and considering both cats were healthy and one lived to be over 20 years (the other tragically was in a fatal accident... but was quite happily fat at the time) clearly I figured it out.  But really its not like its overwhelmingly obvious how much to feed an animal.

Heck I remember 2 years into cat ownership someone was appalled to hear I flushed the litterbox contents.  Apparently this is awful for plumbing.  I had no idea!  What tween reads the bag of kitty litter?!?!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Yvaine on October 21, 2011, 10:20:07 AM

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

I agree with Twik on this, how would a 10 or even a 15 year old child know how to look after an animal if he has never been taught how?  I blame the parents for not looking after the dog & for letting their child think this is okay.

The parents may never have been taught how either, or they may have assumed their kid knew.  I would think a 15 year old at least should be held responsible for his own pet.  Maybe that's what the parents were doing-trying to make him be responsible for whatever he took on for himself.

That said, it does look like they did a poor job of parenting if they realized the dog was in trouble, and did nothing about it.

The kid's not 15 though; that was part of a hypothetical. The actual kid is about 10.

And at any rate, even if the kid was supposed to be feeding the dog etc., the parents are in charge and are supposed to be where the buck stops. If their kid was supposed to be caring for the pet but wasn't doing so, the parents should have either stepped up and done it themselves or rehomed the dog. You don't make a pet suffer for your kid's mistake. (ETA: so I basically agree with your final sentence.)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Lisbeth on October 21, 2011, 10:21:21 AM

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

I agree with Twik on this, how would a 10 or even a 15 year old child know how to look after an animal if he has never been taught how?  I blame the parents for not looking after the dog & for letting their child think this is okay.

The parents may never have been taught how either, or they may have assumed their kid knew.  I would think a 15 year old at least should be held responsible for his own pet.  Maybe that's what the parents were doing-trying to make him be responsible for whatever he took on for himself.

That said, it does look like they did a poor job of parenting if they realized the dog was in trouble, and did nothing about it.

The kid's not 15 though; that was part of a hypothetical. The actual kid is about 10.

And at any rate, even if the kid was supposed to be feeding the dog etc., the parents are in charge and are supposed to be where the buck stops. If their kid was supposed to be caring for the pet but wasn't doing so, the parents should have either stepped up and done it themselves or rehomed the dog. You don't make a pet suffer for your kid's mistake. (ETA: so I basically agree with your final sentence.)

Glad to know we agree.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Nanny Ogg on October 21, 2011, 10:31:22 AM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Hold up, didn't you say that kids shouldn't do any chores in another thread? Surely that means that it's the parents fault by default?  ;)

I have to say that a kid may know the abstract of "dog needs food", but I'd like to see the kid that can pop down to Pets at Home and can both carry AND afford the amount of food a bull terrier breed gets through. My dog costs me about 50 a month in food, plus it takes a car trip because the bags of food are so damned heavy.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: LadyMisha on October 21, 2011, 10:53:57 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/lpski1/Misc%20Gifs/worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif)

 ;D

Let's see if I can post pics!

(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/P2150117.jpg)
This is a shot showing his hipbones.

(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/P2150114.jpg)
Looking straight at the camera!  Big ham!

(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/P2150111.jpg)
Another shot of wayyyy too skinny!

And last but not least, happy and healthy and 25 lbs heavier, heading to the dog park on Easter Sunday!

(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)


*edited cause my links didn't work at first!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Yvaine on October 21, 2011, 10:56:07 AM
Awww! What a beauty. I just want to scritch him right between those eye dots. Love the pic of him in the car. YAY to you for rescuing this cutie, and my own rescue rottie sends leans and wags.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Midge on October 21, 2011, 10:58:29 AM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Hold up, didn't you say that kids shouldn't do any chores in another thread? Surely that means that it's the parents fault by default?  ;)

I have to say that a kid may know the abstract of "dog needs food", but I'd like to see the kid that can pop down to Pets at Home and can both carry AND afford the amount of food a bull terrier breed gets through. My dog costs me about 50 a month in food, plus it takes a car trip because the bags of food are so damned heavy.

Not mention expecting a kid to realize "There's something wrong with Sparky; he needs to go to the vet," and getting his parents to take him there.

My family got a cat when I was seven and she was my mom and my responsibility. When I was about 13, I noticed she was having trouble breathing. My mom, dad, and grandma kept brushing it off as "a hairball." My grandma even suggested sticking the handle of a spoon down her throat to push the "hairball" back into her stomach (!). But I knew there was something wrong and it took close to a week of me whining and stomping before they took her in to discover a raging respiratory infection. And these were people who loved animals and would never DREAM of abusing or neglecting one. How could a kid who never learned any better and has neglectful parents see that a dog wasn't doing well, decided it needed veterinary care, get it to a vet, and pay for it?

ETA: What a beauty!!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: sevenday on October 21, 2011, 10:58:49 AM
I think at 10 years old a kid can make a logical extension of self.  "If I need food and water, so does the dog in our backyard."  He might not make the connection, without being told, that if the kid needs medication for a cold, maybe the dog needs medication so he doesn't get heartworms or other worms.  Plus he might have noticed the dog wasn't feeling well, looked bad, but had no means with which to get care for him.  He can't drive, has no money of his own, and if his parents were allowing this to happen, they might not have listened to his pleas to take the dog to a vet.   He recognized the dog and asked if he could visit, which tells me he cares for the dog at some level.  Without knowing more it's hard to say what his level of involvement was. 

Regardless of all that - every animal control officer, vet, cop, EVERYWHERE, will say that a child (legally defined as under 18 years old) cannot legally own a dog nor be held responsible for its care.  The person who IS responsible is the adult(s) of the household -- namely the boy's parents.  Pretend the boy doesn't exist for now - the ones you really want to yell at are the parents who SHOULD have seen what was happening and take care of it.  I don't personally buy the "I wasn't taught to take care of a dog" -- often times it's common sense.  If you're feeding a dog and it's getting skinnier, it's sick.  Take it to a vet.  If it's walking funny, check the nails.  You don't like to have long nails, neither do they.  Etc -- and if you're not sure -- ask someone with more experience.  A friend, a vet, something. 

In terms of legality, you're in the clear, obviously.  You don't even need to tell the parents that YOU were the ones that took Rocky to the shelter and then adopted him from it.  You can say "We adopted him from the shelter. Here are copies of our legal paperwork.  If you disagree, go talk to the shelter about their policies."  At that point, the shelter can react appropriately (i.e. press charges for cruelty) if the people do show up there.   I wouldn't say anything about "oh his life was so terrible before, isn't it good he's safe now?"  It'll just make them mad.  Say that it's a bit of a coincidence you live so close.  If the parents say something like "Oh, he's a good dog, we just didn't have time/money for him."  You can say, "I'm sorry to hear that. It must have been hard.  Look, your son can visit him every now and then and play with him, make sure he's happy."  If you're comfortable doing so, of course.  Maybe offer to meet at a local park for a run-around time every few weeks if you don't want them at your house.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: dman on October 21, 2011, 11:01:06 AM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Hold up, didn't you say that kids shouldn't do any chores in another thread? Surely that means that it's the parents fault by default?  ;)

I have to say that a kid may know the abstract of "dog needs food", but I'd like to see the kid that can pop down to Pets at Home and can both carry AND afford the amount of food a bull terrier breed gets through. My dog costs me about 50 a month in food, plus it takes a car trip because the bags of food are so damned heavy.

The OP said the boy was about 10, also that the dog had been there for about 3 years.  This is what happens when parents do not take responsibility for teaching their children.  How would he know any better?  The fault lies directly on the parents.  Teach your child how deal with life. 
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on October 21, 2011, 11:04:30 AM
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

HAPPY PUPPY

im not yelling, im squealing, there is a minor difference lol
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: leftout on October 21, 2011, 11:08:45 AM
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

HAPPY PUPPY

im not yelling, im squealing, there is a minor difference lol

POD  ;)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: LadyMisha on October 21, 2011, 11:40:14 AM
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

HAPPY PUPPY

im not yelling, im squealing, there is a minor difference lol

I'm right there with you :)  LOL...he snuggled down with me last night to sleep, big ol' lovebug :)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on October 21, 2011, 11:48:38 AM
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

HAPPY PUPPY

im not yelling, im squealing, there is a minor difference lol

I'm right there with you :)  LOL...he snuggled down with me last night to sleep, big ol' lovebug :)

Awwww you're a wonderful true Lady for taking this pup into your hearts. Bless You [said sincerely]
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Winterlight on October 21, 2011, 12:10:39 PM
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

HAPPY PUPPY

im not yelling, im squealing, there is a minor difference lol


What she squeed!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Ms_Cellany on October 21, 2011, 12:14:24 PM
Quote

And last but not least, happy and healthy and 25 lbs heavier, heading to the dog park on Easter Sunday!

(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)


*edited cause my links didn't work at first!

OhboyOhboyOhboyGoingtodaparkGoingtodaparkGoingtodapark!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: camlan on October 21, 2011, 12:49:19 PM
Yes, that last picture pretty much says it all. "I'm in my car! I'm with my people! We're going out! I'm a Happy Dog!"
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Larrabee on October 21, 2011, 12:57:39 PM
Something about seeing a rescued dog looking completely delighted to be alive like that always brings a lump to my throat.  I'm such a softie, but I can barely get through a walk with mine without getting *ahem*somethinginmyeye.  ::)

Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: SiotehCat on October 21, 2011, 03:27:48 PM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Hold up, didn't you say that kids shouldn't do any chores in another thread? Surely that means that it's the parents fault by default?  ;)

I have to say that a kid may know the abstract of "dog needs food", but I'd like to see the kid that can pop down to Pets at Home and can both carry AND afford the amount of food a bull terrier breed gets through. My dog costs me about 50 a month in food, plus it takes a car trip because the bags of food are so damned heavy.

Oh, I absolutely think its the parents fault. My comment was in response to the comment about the kid not having anything to do with the "starving and torturing" of the dog.

At 10 yrs old, if he saw the dog suffer and did absolutely nothing to help him, then he did contribute to the starving of the dog.

I don't see how my post in the other thread is related.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: DuBois on October 21, 2011, 03:40:11 PM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Hold up, didn't you say that kids shouldn't do any chores in another thread? Surely that means that it's the parents fault by default?  ;)

I have to say that a kid may know the abstract of "dog needs food", but I'd like to see the kid that can pop down to Pets at Home and can both carry AND afford the amount of food a bull terrier breed gets through. My dog costs me about 50 a month in food, plus it takes a car trip because the bags of food are so damned heavy.

Oh, I absolutely think its the parents fault. My comment was in response to the comment about the kid not having anything to do with the "starving and torturing" of the dog.

At 10 yrs old, if he saw the dog suffer and did absolutely nothing to help him, then he did contribute to the starving of the dog.

I don't see how my post in the other thread is related.

What could he have done? Ten is too young to intervene in such a situation, and as Twik said, how would he buy the dog food. I am really sorry for this child.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: SiotehCat on October 21, 2011, 03:45:55 PM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Hold up, didn't you say that kids shouldn't do any chores in another thread? Surely that means that it's the parents fault by default?  ;)

I have to say that a kid may know the abstract of "dog needs food", but I'd like to see the kid that can pop down to Pets at Home and can both carry AND afford the amount of food a bull terrier breed gets through. My dog costs me about 50 a month in food, plus it takes a car trip because the bags of food are so damned heavy.

Oh, I absolutely think its the parents fault. My comment was in response to the comment about the kid not having anything to do with the "starving and torturing" of the dog.

At 10 yrs old, if he saw the dog suffer and did absolutely nothing to help him, then he did contribute to the starving of the dog.

I don't see how my post in the other thread is related.

What could he have done? Ten is too young to intervene in such a situation, and as Twik said, how would he buy the dog food. I am really sorry for this child.

He could talk to his teacher or his school counselor. He could tell them the situation and ask them what to do. Most likely, they would call animal control for him or give him animal controls number.

It might also be as simple as just feeding the dog. We don't know that they didn't have dog food in the house. Or he could have found acceptable people food that he could give them. If he doesn't know what acceptable people food he can give, then he can check the internet or the library.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Cuddlepie on October 21, 2011, 03:49:11 PM
thanks for putting up the photos.  Love the pic in the car;  Is Rocky saying, "they don't know it yet but I have them wrapped round my little tail/finger" ?

The look on his faces is adorable.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Twik on October 21, 2011, 03:54:26 PM
A 10-year old is not likely to call animal control on his parents. It's hard enough to get kids to report their own abuse, because at that age, they have no experience of the world - they think whatever they've lived with is normal.

He may not even have enough "people food" to go around, let alone give his to the dog. People who abuse or neglect animals are often pretty abusive/neglectful to children as well.  I think you are vastly overestimating the abilities of a 10 year old to take independent steps to protect an animal, when he is not even old or large enough to protect himself.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: DuBois on October 21, 2011, 03:54:38 PM
Knowing that this kid/family neglected the dog to within 1 week of death I never would've acknowledged that the dog had been his. 

I would not let him visit, pet, or otherwise engage the dog.  Why should anyone be allowed to renew contact when they starved and tortured a poor dog?  Keeping it in a small enclosure for years?  Seriously?  These people have lost the right to have anything to do with the dog.

But I sincerely doubt that a 10-year-old boy (especially one who reacted to Rocky as you describe) had anything to do with "starving and torturing" a dog.  :-\

I think you're being very kind, OP. I originally thought I wouldn't let the kid have anything to do with him either ... but your description won me over. And I agree with others that, just perhaps, you could be showing this child how pet ownership is really done.

I think a 10 yr old boy is old enough to know that dogs need food/water/shelter etc.

Hold up, didn't you say that kids shouldn't do any chores in another thread? Surely that means that it's the parents fault by default?  ;)

I have to say that a kid may know the abstract of "dog needs food", but I'd like to see the kid that can pop down to Pets at Home and can both carry AND afford the amount of food a bull terrier breed gets through. My dog costs me about 50 a month in food, plus it takes a car trip because the bags of food are so damned heavy.

Oh, I absolutely think its the parents fault. My comment was in response to the comment about the kid not having anything to do with the "starving and torturing" of the dog.

At 10 yrs old, if he saw the dog suffer and did absolutely nothing to help him, then he did contribute to the starving of the dog.

I don't see how my post in the other thread is related.

What could he have done? Ten is too young to intervene in such a situation, and as Twik said, how would he buy the dog food. I am really sorry for this child.

He could talk to his teacher or his school counselor. He could tell them the situation and ask them what to do. Most likely, they would call animal control for him or give him animal controls number.

It might also be as simple as just feeding the dog. We don't know that they didn't have dog food in the house. Or he could have found acceptable people food that he could give them. If he doesn't know what acceptable people food he can give, then he can check the internet or the library.

It just isn't necessarily as simple as that. If he is under the thumb of his parents, he might not just be able to go to a counsellor or a teacher. Kids who are being harmed themselves do not do these things, toxic family situations are not just solved by asking the authorities.

ETA. Twik said the same thing I meant, only better.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: MrsO on October 21, 2011, 03:59:07 PM
There is no way on earth that a ten year old should be held responsible for this. That's completely unfair.

Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Klein Bottle on October 21, 2011, 04:19:21 PM
A 10-year old is not likely to call animal control on his parents. It's hard enough to get kids to report their own abuse, because at that age, they have no experience of the world - they think whatever they've lived with is normal.

He may not even have enough "people food" to go around, let alone give his to the dog. People who abuse or neglect animals are often pretty abusive/neglectful to children as well.  I think you are vastly overestimating the abilities of a 10 year old to take independent steps to protect an animal, when he is not even old or large enough to protect himself.

ITA.  This is an assumption on my part, but my best guess is that this poor kid has all he can do to make it through his own life, trying to take care of his needs.  Sadly, I have known people in my life who are negligent towards their animals, and it tends to extend to the kids, as well. 

OP, I love it that you are allowing this little boy contact with a dog he obviously loved, and are showing him a better way.  You are a good human being.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: gramma dishes on October 21, 2011, 04:23:45 PM
My oldest grandson is currently 9-1/2.    I'm trying to picture him in this child's position.  They do not have a dog.

If they did, the only thing he would know about taking care of it would be what he saw his parents doing.  He is not at 9-1/2 independently wealthy.  He could not feed the dog on his own.  He could not drive it to the vet, nor pay the vet bill.  He would probably not even realize the dog was not healthy since he would have no prior experience with which to compare the dog's appearance. 

It would seem that this boy really did LIKE his dog, and the dog apparently liked him.  To me, that indicates that the boy was doing as well as he could with his pet given the circumstances.  He was not neglecting, much less abusing this animal.  The parents were.  They may have been neglectful because they just didn't give a diddly, or they may simply have not known any better.  But in no way could the boy be realistically blamed for the condition of the dog when the OP found it.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Joannie81 on October 21, 2011, 06:25:38 PM
Quote

And last but not least, happy and healthy and 25 lbs heavier, heading to the dog park on Easter Sunday!

(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)


*edited cause my links didn't work at first!

OhboyOhboyOhboyGoingtodaparkGoingtodaparkGoingtodapark!
I was thinking more along the lines of gogogo fasterfasterfaster parkpark!!!!!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Elfmama on October 21, 2011, 08:48:28 PM
If you make photocopies of the adoption paperwork, make some of the vet bills too.  If the parents of the little boy show up, let them see how  much it cost to get that poor dog back to a healthy condition.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Doll Fiend on October 21, 2011, 08:55:11 PM
I want to say that he is a beautiful dog and I am glad he chose such a loving home.

I don't think any kid can be held responsible for the neglect that was due to the adults. It is good though to see you reaching out to the boy, letting him see what good pet owners do and he can still be friends with the dog.

The only reason I can see the parents coming after the dog is not because of the dog but because he belonged to him. He was their possession. Not due to love, but ownership.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on October 21, 2011, 09:39:57 PM
The last pic of Rocky in the car headed to the park made me smile and tear up at the same time.  Real doggy joy.

The boy may have known the dog was not well.  Or, he may not have known.  We don't know the child and cannot judge.  The parents may not have cared, or they may not have had the means to care for the dog, or perhaps they neglect the boy the same way they did the dog.  Again, we don't know, and cannot judge. 

I think it's extraordinarily kind to allow the boy to visit Rocky, and I also think it's an enormous opportunity for him to learn what proper pet care entails, and what kind of responsibility it really is.  His parents may not have known any better/didn't care, but allowing the child to be exposed to a well-cared-for Rocky (and the OP's other dogs, as they may be out on a walk along with Rocky) may very well be what tips the scale to help the boy grow up to be a GOOD and RESPONSIBLE pet owner.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: catgal on October 21, 2011, 09:54:38 PM
I'm glad to see Rocky clearly thriving in his home with you!  What a happy pup  ;D

My only advice with letting the young boy visit is to only say that you got Rocky from the pound.  Don't mention that you were the ones to take him there. Who knows what the previous owners think, but I wouldn't want them to get it in theirs minds and think that you must have plotted and deliberately stole their dog, took it to the pound just so you could have him.  Some people aren't as rational as the rest of us.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Iris on October 21, 2011, 11:32:05 PM
Quote

And last but not least, happy and healthy and 25 lbs heavier, heading to the dog park on Easter Sunday!

(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)


*edited cause my links didn't work at first!

OhboyOhboyOhboyGoingtodaparkGoingtodaparkGoingtodapark!

I see you speak fluent Dog  ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: ClaireC79 on October 22, 2011, 06:37:03 AM
The OP has also said that due to the worms that just feeding Rocky wouldn't have made him gain weight or be healthy, so even if the 10 year old was feeding him regularly it wouldn't have made a difference (so we don't know that he wasn't)

Both Rocky and the boy seem to like each other so if the OP is happy to let them continue a friendship in her house then all credit to her,
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: BabyMama on October 22, 2011, 01:05:09 PM
My in-laws have had dogs all their life. Never an indoor dog, always an outdoor. They live on a farm, where this is an accepted practice. Their last dog (springer spaniel) lived nearly its entire life without being groomed--he always looked like a mess. He was groomed by a professional once in its lifetime. They fed him Ol' Roy dogfood, but "knew best" because he was "fat and healthy." They don't take dogs to the vet, and neuter by banding them, like pigs. After that dog passed, they got a new dog that they keep in a run nearly all time, because he runs off. Last year at Thanksgiving, FIL told us that he hadn't been outside to see the dog/let it out for 4 days. They think we are weird for keeping inside dogs.

FIL's brother had several small outside dogs--the males weren't fixed and were allowed to wander all over. They reek because they're outside all the time, and are never bathed or groomed. They were slowly picked off by coyotes--instead of bringing all the dogs inside after that happened, they allowed the dogs to continue living outside 24/7. Eventually they were left with one dog. GFIL took the one dog after GMIL passed. He wanted to get the dog fixed. They thought he was ridiculous and that it was a waste of money--after all, the dog had lived 10 years without being fixed, it was fine. They refused to drive GFIL to the vet to neuter the dog.

DH was raised his whole life thinking this was fairly typical dog care. He now knows better. Hopefully the boy in the OP will someday realize that there is such a thing as pet care as well.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: PeasNCues on October 22, 2011, 01:22:48 PM
There's this problem with rabbits as well. Parents get them for their kids and expect them to figure their care out on their own. Then the shelter is the recipient of a filthy, hand shy, unaltered rabbit with overgrown nails and teeth.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Steve on October 22, 2011, 01:44:41 PM
Oh my, you just gave me a picture of my 8yo clipping one of our rabits nails....brrrrr please do not do that again ...
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on October 22, 2011, 03:11:32 PM
I have always wondered, if you have a dog but leave it in a run/outdoors all day, never play, work or interact with it...why even have the dog in the first place?

My dogs are a part of my family; they live indoors with me and come with me whenever feasible when I go places.  I enjoy their company; they are my companions.  I would never just toss them outside and ignore them; if I'd planned to do that, I never would have gotten them to begin with.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: jpcher on October 22, 2011, 03:27:23 PM
LadyMisha -- I'm chiming in late, but I just wanted to let you know that I think you are marvelous! ;D

Both for taking in the pup and allowing the child to come over and play with puppy.

When I first got my Daisy (a rescue rot) I.did.not.want.a.dog. but LDH and DDs persuasion was heavy. It was mostly Daisy, herself, that grabbed my heart. The foster parents brought Daisy to my home for a visit, discussion, see if we were a good fit. As soon as that dog walked into my home, she came right to me. She wouldn't leave my side.

There was no way that dog was leaving my her new home.

I like to think that Daisy found me . . . just like your puppy found you.

I knew nothing about dogs. Never had one. What do they eat? How much do they eat? What do you need to look for as far as sickness? How often do you take them to a vet?

I was in my 40's. I was thrown into a tizzy about how to properly care for/train a dog. I did a lot of on-line research. I can't imagine a 10 year old figuring out if the dog needs to go to a vet or not. The DDs knew to clean up the yard, give Daisy food and water and give her plenty of exercise. That's about it. They learned with me whenever we took the dog to the vet. I had no clue about heartworm meds, etc.

I agree with the PPers that said it's not the child's fault.

I also agree with the PPers that said OP is doing a good deed by letting the child come over and play with her puppy. She will be able to teach him a few things about the responsibility of animal ownership.

LadyMisha, this puppy found you because he knew that you needed him and that he will be loved. Kudos to you!  ;D



P.S. How old is Rocky? Would you please provide a link to your previous thread?
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: BabyMama on October 22, 2011, 04:58:23 PM
I have always wondered, if you have a dog but leave it in a run/outdoors all day, never play, work or interact with it...why even have the dog in the first place?

My dogs are a part of my family; they live indoors with me and come with me whenever feasible when I go places.  I enjoy their company; they are my companions.  I would never just toss them outside and ignore them; if I'd planned to do that, I never would have gotten them to begin with.

I know, right? Especially a smart, social breed like springers (FIL's breed of choice.) FIL says he likes having a dog around, it's good companionship (although I doubt the level of companionship one can achieve with an always-outdoor, infrequently-played-with farm dog). But he also has that "animals are for food not fun" mentality. He probably thinks by feeding it Ol' Roy instead of letting it fend for itself that he's bonding with it or something.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Joannie81 on October 22, 2011, 08:09:43 PM
Growing up, our neighbors got an Irish Setter.  He was a beautiful dog.  Unfortunately when he grew up, Mrs. Neighbor decided she didn't want him in the house.  So, Mr. Neighbor made a dog hous for him and tied him up near the garden.  The kids were responsible for bringing him water and food, which they did.  After a while, the kids didn't like to go by him because he got all excited and jumped up and wanted to play with them.  They would leave the food just close enough for him to get to, but that was it.  My mother would wander over to him almost every day to talk to and pet him for a little while.  She was the only one the dog listened to.  I sometimes went with her and would play with him for a little while.  Then one day he was gone.  I never did find out what happened to him, but he was a sweet dog while he was there.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on October 23, 2011, 11:41:03 AM

P.S. How old is Rocky? Would you please provide a link to your previous thread?

:)  It took me a  while to find it, but here it is:

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=90805.msg2197458#msg2197458

As near as we can figure, he's around 3 (this jives with what the neighborhood kids told us too).  He's got a serious happy go lucky kind of attitude and we couldn't be happier with him.  If we could just get him to respond to voice commands to stay in the yard, we'd be great!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: jpcher on October 23, 2011, 12:29:18 PM
Thanks for the link, LadyMisha. From you OP, it sounded to me that you've only had Rocky for a few weeks. He's been part of your family for 8 months! Lucky dog! ;D

I don't think that you have to worry about the parents coming around. I'm betting that they are thinking "good riddance."

If they do, you have all your i's dotted and t's crossed. You went about the adoption in the right way. Like PPers have mentioned, you have all the paperwork. They don't have a leg to stand on.


You did a good thing.  ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Midge on October 24, 2011, 08:12:54 AM
I have always wondered, if you have a dog but leave it in a run/outdoors all day, never play, work or interact with it...why even have the dog in the first place?

My dogs are a part of my family; they live indoors with me and come with me whenever feasible when I go places.  I enjoy their company; they are my companions.  I would never just toss them outside and ignore them; if I'd planned to do that, I never would have gotten them to begin with.

I know, right? Especially a smart, social breed like springers (FIL's breed of choice.) FIL says he likes having a dog around, it's good companionship (although I doubt the level of companionship one can achieve with an always-outdoor, infrequently-played-with farm dog). But he also has that "animals are for food not fun" mentality. He probably thinks by feeding it Ol' Roy instead of letting it fend for itself that he's bonding with it or something.

Sounds like my mother-in-law. She doesn't like (or understand) animals at all, but growing up, she and her sisters had a dog. A dog that was chained up, all day and night, next to his dog house. I think they played with it, but it never came in the house or anything. When hubby and I got married, I awakened his long-dormant animal lover gene and we've had pets throughout our marriage. Right now one of them is a rescued greyhound.

We mentioned something about the dog, I don't know, taking over the couch or being in exactly the wrong spot on the floor (one of those "annoying" things doggies do) and she sniffed "I just think dogs would rather be outside." Yep, I know our dog would rather be chained up (can't do that with greys anyway) in the cold, and snow, and rain, with no human contact, and fending off the deer, coyotes, wild turkeys and foxes that we've seen in our neighborhood. Sure beats lying on a couch in between two people who love you and that you love and getting random scritches and maybe their leftover chicken.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on October 24, 2011, 07:35:18 PM
Aww Midge, good for you for taking on a rescued Grey, is he a retired racer?  I used to have one and they're wonderful and unique dogs. 
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 24, 2011, 07:51:34 PM
(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)

Not finished the thread yet because oh, oh, oh! Chunky pibble head! Rottie coloring! Lookatyouyou'reagoodboyaren'tyouyesyouareyou'reasweetpeaaren'tyoulittlebabyyesyouarelittleloverdoggie!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on October 24, 2011, 08:36:08 PM
(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)

Not finished the thread yet because oh, oh, oh! Chunky pibble head! Rottie coloring! Lookatyouyou'reagoodboyaren'tyouyesyouareyou'reasweetpeaaren'tyoulittlebabyyesyouarelittleloverdoggie!

POD.  LOL.  I see a face that needs a good smooshing.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Yvaine on October 24, 2011, 08:46:58 PM
(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)

Not finished the thread yet because oh, oh, oh! Chunky pibble head! Rottie coloring! Lookatyouyou'reagoodboyaren'tyouyesyouareyou'reasweetpeaaren'tyoulittlebabyyesyouarelittleloverdoggie!

POD.  LOL.  I see a face that needs a good smooshing.

And let's not forget snorgling!  ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Midge on October 25, 2011, 09:08:24 AM
Aww Midge, good for you for taking on a rescued Grey, is he a retired racer?  I used to have one and they're wonderful and unique dogs.

Nah, she never raced. Can dogs have ADD? Because if they can, that's why.  :D She is super sweet and yes, very unique! She lays around/sleeps probably 23 hours a day, with maybe a half-hour total of outside time, and a half-hour of what we call "The Nola Show," where she spins around in circles, and pounces on and flings her stuffies all over the rec room. This is followed, as you can imagine, by the mother of all naps.

I'll try to post a picture later.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue - help me be polite, its gonna be tough
Post by: Midge on October 25, 2011, 09:09:12 AM
(http://i879.photobucket.com/albums/ab351/sschultheiss/Rocky.jpg)

Not finished the thread yet because oh, oh, oh! Chunky pibble head! Rottie coloring! Lookatyouyou'reagoodboyaren'tyouyesyouareyou'reasweetpeaaren'tyoulittlebabyyesyouarelittleloverdoggie!

POD.  LOL.  I see a face that needs a good smooshing.

And let's not forget snorgling!  ;D

Sweet mother of G**, I want to kiss that nose so bad!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Ashaela on October 25, 2011, 10:05:54 AM
I really believe that animals find the people they're supposed to be with.  Your Rocky is Absolutely Gorgeous and obviously incredibly happy to be with his people.   ;D ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on October 25, 2011, 08:56:56 PM
I've been diligently passing along all of the smooches, snorgleing, squee's, huggles, scritches and tummy rubs :)  Rocky's in hog heaven!  LOL

The most amazing part about Rocky is that even after he was so maltreated, he is absolutely the sweetest thing.  He's got the personality of a golden retriever in a pit bull/rottweiler mix body.

And smart as a whip!  LOL  You can see him working out how to get a particular toy from one of the other dogs!   >:D  He'll go and grab another one, just long enough to get them interested in it - and then go and grab the one he really wanted... the little sneak :)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 25, 2011, 08:59:43 PM
For the record, it sounds like he has the personality of a pit. People don't always realize it if they don't have experience with the breed, but pits are by and large sweet, goofy, happy, wiggly butt cuddle bugs. The majority think they are lap dogs and just want to snuggle with their humans.  :)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on October 25, 2011, 09:00:01 PM
We need a picture of you rubbing his tummy as proof  ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 25, 2011, 09:05:14 PM
We need a picture of you rubbing his tummy as proof  ;D

Yes!!! Want to see the tummy!!!  ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Doll Fiend on October 25, 2011, 09:42:29 PM
For the record, it sounds like he has the personality of a pit. People don't always realize it if they don't have experience with the breed, but pits are by and large sweet, goofy, happy, wiggly butt cuddle bugs. The majority think they are lap dogs and just want to snuggle with their humans.  :)

Rotts are the same, Nothing but big babies. Total love hogs.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Yvaine on October 25, 2011, 10:56:54 PM
For the record, it sounds like he has the personality of a pit. People don't always realize it if they don't have experience with the breed, but pits are by and large sweet, goofy, happy, wiggly butt cuddle bugs. The majority think they are lap dogs and just want to snuggle with their humans.  :)

Rotts are the same, Nothing but big babies. Total love hogs.

Yup. Mine is currently snuggling with me as I surf ehell.  ;D
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: lollylegs on October 26, 2011, 04:52:19 AM
I skipped right to the pictures, I'm going to go back and read the thread properly but I just had to say how gorgeous he is! Such a beautiful coat.
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: jpcher on October 26, 2011, 06:53:38 PM
For the record, it sounds like he has the personality of a pit. People don't always realize it if they don't have experience with the breed, but pits are by and large sweet, goofy, happy, wiggly butt cuddle bugs. The majority think they are lap dogs and just want to snuggle with their humans.  :)

Rotts are the same, Nothing but big babies. Total love hogs.

You know, once I saw the pictures, I thought Rocky might be a rot-pit mix. The head seemed larger than a rot and the body smaller. (That might have been just the camera angle.)


OP -- do you know if Rocky is a mix? or pure bred?



(eta: either way, you've got yourself a love-puppy! I'm so happy for you! ;D)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Eisa on October 26, 2011, 06:56:05 PM
I agree. Much snorgles and tummy loves. :-* Adorable doggy. :D

I'm glad that you're going to let the kid see Rocky, too, that's very sweet of you. :)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on October 26, 2011, 07:55:21 PM
At first, the vet thought he was some sort of German Shepard mix, because he was so skinny.  When he filled out, it was definite that he is a Pit Bull / Rottie mixture.  :) 

And yes, he's totally rotten.  Most of the pits / rotties that I've known have been total love bugs - he's double that cause he's got 'em both!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 26, 2011, 08:10:38 PM
Can I beg more pics of your little lover doggie?
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on October 27, 2011, 08:31:26 AM
Tell ya what, I'll post some in the cuteliness folder :)  Get them in the right spot.  :)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 27, 2011, 08:33:21 AM
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on October 29, 2011, 10:29:42 AM
I finally got pictures up :)  I give you Rocky in his Halloween costume!

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=109117.0
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on November 06, 2012, 11:31:32 AM
I am resurrecting this thread because for some unknown reason, I had a dream about Rocky the other night, and I searched out this thread.

I think it was the picture of Rocky in the car, obviously in doggie heaven, that just got to me.

How is he doing?
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on November 06, 2012, 01:16:26 PM
I am resurrecting this thread because for some unknown reason, I had a dream about Rocky the other night, and I searched out this thread.

I think it was the picture of Rocky in the car, obviously in doggie heaven, that just got to me.

How is he doing?

Aw, he's doing GREAT!  Thanks for asking and remembering him!  He's thoroughly rotten :)  Last night he decided he wanted snuggles at bedtime so he jumped up on the bed, snuggled up to my tummy and then laid his head on the pillow beside mine and just looked at me like "I saw your hand not doing anything... wanna rub me?"  LOL  Like I said, rotten!  But much loved!
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: TootsNYC on November 06, 2012, 04:09:02 PM
did you ever have any trouble with the original issue on this thread--did the other family ever approach you about wanting him back?
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: LadyMisha on November 06, 2012, 04:20:16 PM
did you ever have any trouble with the original issue on this thread--did the other family ever approach you about wanting him back?

Not a bit. I'm happy to report we've had no issues :)
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Winterlight on November 07, 2012, 09:13:43 AM
Yay! And this thread needs current pics of your boy. *hint, hint*
Title: Re: I can see this becoming an issue-help me be polite, its gonna be tough Pics #40
Post by: Quesselin on November 08, 2012, 06:36:12 AM
What about the boy? Did he ever come visit?