Etiquette Hell

Forum Administration => Forum Announcements => Topic started by: Generic Lurker on October 27, 2011, 01:03:39 PM

Title: Ex member
Post by: Generic Lurker on October 27, 2011, 01:03:39 PM
<----------EX member Lil Bunny

With the banning of RainhaDoTexugo, I can no longer just sit back and be content to move my activity to lurk mode. 

You have deleted many of those that I have called friends and a few that I would be honored to call family.  When long time members who are admired in this community are silenced because their views are "opposing", it made my heart sad.  When you can sit there and tell the "general" masses that the people who were banned were bad people and liars?  It got my hackles up.  But now when you ban innocent people for no reason than their name was on a bloody list (who by the way left after your little mole snap shotted that)??  I'm sorry but you guys are a hypocritical and bordering on fascist regime. 

Yes yes, I know I'll get my catty little "We're so sorry you feel that way" banning speech and you'll delete this but I don't care.  I'll have the screen shot just like all those that went before me.  You can try but you won't silence everyone. 

Oh and to make it a little easier to take me out, here you go.  Aim straight for the heart so you can finally say you have one. 

(http://www.laroysairsoft.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/target1-75.gif)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Miss March on October 27, 2011, 01:09:51 PM
RainhaDoTexugo is banned? Does anyone know why? I've skimmed through her most recent posts, and I don't see anything the least bit confrontational or offensive?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Generic Lurker on October 27, 2011, 01:11:35 PM
RainhaDoTexugo is banned? Does anyone know why? I've skimmed through her most recent posts, and I don't see anything the least bit confrontational or offensive?

And now you know.  Enjoy the forum!!  :D
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 01:18:13 PM
I'm sorry but you guys are a hypocritical and bordering on fascist regime. 

Aim straight for the heart so you can finally say you have one. 


Is this actually a mod parodying a troll flounce? Or is someone angling for the Ehell Drama (Llama) Club President award?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms_Cellany on October 27, 2011, 01:18:43 PM
It's real.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lipli on October 27, 2011, 01:19:34 PM
As have aventurine, Southern Sugar, trishlovesdolphins among others.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lipli on October 27, 2011, 01:23:29 PM
And LadyPekoe.  Don't want her to just fade away.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lipli on October 27, 2011, 01:25:50 PM
And wyozozo. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: housewife2k on October 27, 2011, 01:28:44 PM
RainhaDoTexugo is banned? Does anyone know why? I've skimmed through her most recent posts, and I don't see anything the least bit confrontational or offensive?
Miss March- my understanding is that there are bannings happening because of suspected involvement with a group. Some here believe the group was formed to harm EHell in some way, so regardless of what suspected members have done, they are being banned. The OP was a long standing member of EHell, like many who are being banned. The OP, like many others, is upset by the direction the moderation of the board is taking. Banning members who have done NOTHING wrong other than socialize outside of ehell is what brought this on. Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 01:29:42 PM
So I'm guessing since the new warning system is in effect, this is the first round of bannings as a result - could a mod clarify what behavior (in general) led to these bannings? In another thread it sounded like some posters were banned for bullying certain members or something - sounded like it was happening over PM rather than in threads (though I could be misreading).

Eta: here is the post I'm referring to, posted by workgeek here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107905.0 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107905.0)

In light of what's been happening, it's important to note that being friends off-site is not at all a bad thing.  Plenty of members stay in touch outside of Ehell, via the various meetups, social networking, email and so on.  We have a few family units around who stay in touch via genetics.   ;)  The recent difficulties were due to deliberate attempts to disrupt the forum, ostracize certain people who were deemed "unworthy" of participating here, and actively lying about it to deceive both the mods and members.  This is not "being friends".
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: ItZWhoUKnow on October 27, 2011, 01:34:33 PM
I love you Bunny...  :)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: housewife2k on October 27, 2011, 01:35:31 PM
So I'm guessing since the new warning system is in effect, this is the first round of bannings as a result - could a mod clarify what behavior (in general) led to these bannings? In another thread it sounded like some posters were banned for bullying certain members or something - sounded like it was happening over PM rather than in threads (though I could be misreading).

Eta: here is the post I'm referring to, posted by workgeek here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107905.0 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107905.0)

In light of what's been happening, it's important to note that being friends off-site is not at all a bad thing.  Plenty of members stay in touch outside of Ehell, via the various meetups, social networking, email and so on.  We have a few family units around who stay in touch via genetics.   ;)  The recent difficulties were due to deliberate attempts to disrupt the forum, ostracize certain people who were deemed "unworthy" of participating here, and actively lying about it to deceive both the mods and members.  This is not "being friends".

Rainnha was a member of a group, she left when she was unhappy with the direction said group was not what she expected. She has never 'bullied' anyone, in PM or otherwise.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rose red on October 27, 2011, 01:39:57 PM
What group?  What did this group actually do?  I'm confused and have zero idea of what is going on.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Lynn2000 on October 27, 2011, 01:40:33 PM
Wow, I am really confused about all of this and I just don't know what to think. Some of the names mentioned here are people who have formed a (good) impression on me during my relatively short time on the forum, and it's hard for me to understand why all this is happening.  :(
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 01:41:40 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on October 27, 2011, 01:42:49 PM
Wow, I am really confused about all of this and I just don't know what to think. Some of the names mentioned here are people who have formed a (good) impression on me during my relatively short time on the forum, and it's hard for me to understand why all this is happening.  :(

Yeah, me too, and I have a hard time believing these members would bully anyone based on the impression I've gotten from posting with them.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: smidget23 on October 27, 2011, 01:43:45 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
So how does the koolaid taste?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: jibby on October 27, 2011, 01:44:24 PM
What group?  What did this group actually do?  I'm confused and have zero idea of what is going on.
Thank goodness. I thought I was the only one thoroughly confused!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: housewife2k on October 27, 2011, 01:45:16 PM
Schmoopie3928 is another poster who was banned, who didn't bully or bring malice here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 01:49:18 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
So how does the koolaid taste?

Hmmm, a bunch of people who I have seen making trouble on the forum recently got banned. I'm not going to miss them because I would prefer less drama here, and less feeling like people are talking behind my back, and less accusations in general. If there are people who were innocent caught up in the banning, I would encourage them to talk to the mods and show that their behavior is above board.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: housewife2k on October 27, 2011, 01:49:59 PM
LadyPekoe was another who didn't bully or bring malice
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: housewife2k on October 27, 2011, 01:52:07 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
So how does the koolaid taste?

Hmmm, a bunch of people who I have seen making trouble on the forum recently got banned. I'm not going to miss them because I would prefer less drama here, and less feeling like people are talking behind my back, and less accusations in general. If there are people who were innocent caught up in the banning, I would encourage them to talk to the mods and show that their behavior is above board.
Rashea, how, once they have been banned, are they supposed to talk to a mod? The only way they can do that is to try and create another account, which in itself, is a bannable offense?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 01:52:45 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
So how does the koolaid taste?

Hmmm, a bunch of people who I have seen making trouble on the forum recently got banned. I'm not going to miss them because I would prefer less drama here, and less feeling like people are talking behind my back, and less accusations in general. If there are people who were innocent caught up in the banning, I would encourage them to talk to the mods and show that their behavior is above board.
Rashea, how, once they have been banned, are they supposed to talk to a mod? The only way they can do that is to try and create another account, which in itself, is a bannable offense?

I believe that banned posters can still PM mods.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lipli on October 27, 2011, 01:53:12 PM
vTenebrae is gone as well - 5 years, only 1 warning
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Redneck Gravy on October 27, 2011, 01:53:47 PM
How can you tell if another member has been banned?

I was suspended once and could not log on so I assume if you are banned you can't log on but other than someone notifying you outside of eHell how do you know someone else has been banned ?

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: One Goat to Rule Them All on October 27, 2011, 01:55:03 PM
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202)
Here's a link to Ehelldame's explanation of why there are going to be a large number of bannings, for anyone who missed it and is confused.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: O'Dell on October 27, 2011, 01:55:20 PM

Rashea, how, once they have been banned, are they supposed to talk to a mod? The only way they can do that is to try and create another account, which in itself, is a bannable offense?

Ehell Dame can be contacted through the main blog...even by banned people.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Bexx27 on October 27, 2011, 01:56:20 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.

How might one "prove" a lack of intent to harm ehell? It's difficult to prove a negative (especially with the "innocent until proven guilty" mindset many of us choose to adopt)...Except perhaps through years of thoughtful, genuine participation as a valued member of a forum.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: smidget23 on October 27, 2011, 01:56:36 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
So how does the koolaid taste?

Hmmm, a bunch of people who I have seen making trouble on the forum recently got banned. I'm not going to miss them because I would prefer less drama here, and less feeling like people are talking behind my back, and less accusations in general. If there are people who were innocent caught up in the banning, I would encourage them to talk to the mods and show that their behavior is above board.
This isn't just about the people who recently got banned. There have been several members over the years who have been banned or left because of the SAME issues that people are bringing up now. It happened at Delphooey and it's been happening here ever since the move.

I know that recently a few members have been causing problems, but not all of the past or present "missing" members are guilty. I prefer less drama here too. That's why I would prefer something be done about the actual TROLLS instead of the members.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 02:00:57 PM
This isn't just about the people who recently got banned. There have been several members over the years who have been banned or left because of the SAME issues that people are bringing up now. It happened at Delphooey and it's been happening here ever since the move.

I know that recently a few members have been causing problems, but not all of the past or present "missing" members are guilty. I prefer less drama here too. That's why I would prefer something be done about the actual TROLLS instead of the members.

And all I'm saying is that most, if not all the people here have no idea what's happening behind the scenes (including me). I don't have the details of who or why people were banned. I don't know if they were banned because of association with a group of people who included troublemakers. I don't know what was said between the Dame and the members of that group. I don't know if there is a plan through which members of that group can show that they were not involved in the trouble that was being done. I don't know what that group posted. If someone can show me that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark, I'd love to know. But until then, I reserve judgement.

I've been here through mass bannings before, and probably will again.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SiotehCat on October 27, 2011, 02:01:37 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
So how does the koolaid taste?

Hmmm, a bunch of people who I have seen making trouble on the forum recently got banned. I'm not going to miss them because I would prefer less drama here, and less feeling like people are talking behind my back, and less accusations in general. If there are people who were innocent caught up in the banning, I would encourage them to talk to the mods and show that their behavior is above board.

I agree.

I was a little suspicious when a bunch of ehellions friended me on facebook at the same time a few days ago. Now it makes sense.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Generic Lurker on October 27, 2011, 02:04:36 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.

Ugh why I even came back to look is beyond me.  I and no one else put the mark on my back.  Please get that right Rashea.  I am taking myself out of this game because I care.  And no, those that were banned can't talk to the mods which is even worse.  And btw?  Little thing called innocent until proven guilty.  I don't care if one bad apple can ruin the bunch.  You don't toss out the whole bushel. 

In the mean time, LadyL?  Please have a delightful day.  You can rest assured that I will to.   :-*
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiara on October 27, 2011, 02:05:52 PM
Honestly, if this post is trying to convince people that the Mods made the wrong decision about you Lil Bunny, it failed. If people who have been banned can show that they had no intention of harming ehell then they should talk to the Mods.

The recent thread about the "sensi" who kicked people out of their group was apparently about a group on facebook that was made up of ehell members. Reading that thread might help people feel like they have more idea what's going on.
So how does the koolaid taste?

May I ask a serious question?  How does this help the discussion?  If you have a problem with the board and can state it politely, then start a thread.  We've had several recently, and none were locked that I can recall.  I know mods participated in a few of them.

Like rashea, I have no clue what happens behind the scenes.  I certainly doubt that members were banned for having a dissenting opinion.  I've had plenty, and I've certainly disagreed with some of the decisions made by the mods and the Dame.  But if I can't express them politely, I don't think posting nasty threads or forming facebook groups is the way to go about expressing myself.

I've seen many posters come and go, and many popular ones banned.  In every case, they have their own behavior to blame.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: ginlyn32 on October 27, 2011, 02:07:11 PM
As far as I know, none of the recently banned members have done anything to warrent a banning.

.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 02:10:26 PM
As far as I know, none of the recently banned members have done anything to warrent a banning.

.

I think that depends. I think that a banning is warranted if someone starts a thread specifically to create drama and trouble on this forum.

Threads like this:
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105544.0
and as pointed out here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2526022#msg2526022
"A thread "Calling out the moderators" for their actions is just never going to go over well, though."

If you have an issue with the moderation, take it up with them privately.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yarnie on October 27, 2011, 02:11:00 PM
Well, that might explain why my sister received several FB "friends" requests from people claiming to know me.  However, they didn't friend me.  I confronted one person who claimed it was innocent (I have no idea what her handle was.).  After that, my sister was freaked out enough she demanded I ignore them.  It might not be related, but it was suspicious.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: The Legend of Daisy on October 27, 2011, 02:13:12 PM
As far as I know, none of the recently banned members have done anything to warrent a banning.

.

I think that depends. I think that a banning is warranted if someone starts a thread specifically to create drama and trouble on this forum.

Threads like this:
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105544.0
and as pointed out here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2526022#msg2526022
"A thread "Calling out the moderators" for their actions is just never going to go over well, though."

If you have an issue with the moderation, take it up with them privately.

But....that makes no sense. The moderation is carried out by individuals, but it should be carried out to a standard forum policy. That policy should be set in response to, and with the input of, the community. How can one-on-one conversations ever accurately reflect the community?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 27, 2011, 02:14:54 PM
And once again, I am eternally grateful I don't Facebook.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: ginlyn32 on October 27, 2011, 02:15:52 PM
And were any of those friend requests from Rainha? Any suspicious posts from Rainha? I'm guessing not, because she QUIT the facebook group because it made her uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 02:16:26 PM
for those who missed it yesterday. 

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: The Legend of Daisy on October 27, 2011, 02:19:15 PM
And once again, I am eternally grateful I don't Facebook.
Interesting comment, the guy who sits across from me at work says stuff like this and I don't understand it at all. I'd like to understand better, is it OK if I start a spinoff thread in coffee break with this title?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 27, 2011, 02:20:46 PM
And once again, I am eternally grateful I don't Facebook.
Interesting comment, the guy who sits across from me at work says stuff like this and I don't understand it at all. I'd like to understand better, is it OK if I start a spinoff thread in coffee break with this title?

Sure!   :D
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: StressedGroom on October 27, 2011, 02:21:17 PM
I was looking at the stat page (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?action=stats), lots of cool info there.  RainhaDoTexugo is ranked 4th in number of posts and first in time online (almost 320 days), I have a hard time accepting someone that invested is out to harm the forum.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: smidget23 on October 27, 2011, 02:22:11 PM
May I ask a serious question?  How does this help the discussion?  If you have a problem with the board and can state it politely, then start a thread.  We've had several recently, and none were locked that I can recall.  I know mods participated in a few of them.

Like rashea, I have no clue what happens behind the scenes.  I certainly doubt that members were banned for having a dissenting opinion.  I've had plenty, and I've certainly disagreed with some of the decisions made by the mods and the Dame.  But if I can't express them politely, I don't think posting nasty threads or forming facebook groups is the way to go about expressing myself.

I've seen many posters come and go, and many popular ones banned.  In every case, they have their own behavior to blame.

Consider it more of a knee-jerk reaction. I don't pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors (or really even out in the open in the case of some recent threads). I just know that things have been "off" here for awhile for me and I was too afraid to even ask anyone about that because I was afraid of saying the wrong thing to the wrong person and getting banned. This is not new behavior for ehell by any stretch of the imagination. What is unfortunate is that there are some amazing people here and if I want to be connected to them by any stretch, I have to put up with the negative as well.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 02:25:19 PM
As far as I know, none of the recently banned members have done anything to warrent a banning.

.

I think that depends. I think that a banning is warranted if someone starts a thread specifically to create drama and trouble on this forum.

Threads like this:
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105544.0
and as pointed out here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2526022#msg2526022
"A thread "Calling out the moderators" for their actions is just never going to go over well, though."

If you have an issue with the moderation, take it up with them privately.

But....that makes no sense. The moderation is carried out by individuals, but it should be carried out to a standard forum policy. That policy should be set in response to, and with the input of, the community. How can one-on-one conversations ever accurately reflect the community?

I had an issue with moderation recently, and I sent the message to a moderator to take to the rest. I received a response thanking me for pointing out the issue. I assume they discussed it. I also think that polite inquiries into how something is handled are fine. Calling mods as a group out and saying how bad a job their doing seems very rude and hurtful to me.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 02:25:43 PM

I've been here through mass bannings before, and probably will again.

Ditto.  I'm not as naive as someone thought I was.  The Dame's rules are what we agree to abide by in order to post here.  I haven't seen one made yet that didn't have a solid reason as to the "whys".  Maybe I don't know the reason when they are announced.. but after reading/poking around the forum I can usually sus it out.

Why anyone banned recently or in the past is not my call to question.  I just try to learn a little about etiquette and treat others with respect.. even those who have me rolling my eyes.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TheBardess on October 27, 2011, 02:33:03 PM
Wait...did I read this right? Rainha, Aventurine, wyozozo, LadyPekoe, vTenebrae, and the others mentioned in this thread have all been banned?? ?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Zilla on October 27, 2011, 02:33:57 PM
I was looking at the stat page (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?action=stats (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?action=stats)), lots of cool info there.  RainhaDoTexugo is ranked 4th in number of posts and first in time online (almost 320 days), I have a hard time accepting someone that invested is out to harm the forum.

That Rainha?  I loved her epic wedding thread she had.  Wow, that is surprising to me.  I don't ever remember doing any inflammatory.  But then again I don't have access to the PM's/behind the scenes etc.  Yikes.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 02:36:39 PM
Wait...did I read this right? Rainha, Aventurine, wyozozo, LadyPekoe, vTenebrae, and the others mentioned in this thread have all been banned?? ?

The mods rarely comment on the moderation they have taken against individual posters. Especially long term posters. So, it's possible. And several of them were warned in recent threads. It's also possible that they were temporarily gagged while this is sorted out to try to keep threads like this from starting even more drama.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MOM21SON on October 27, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
Ehhh.  people that have been banned know why.  It really is very simple, read the posting guidelines and it is all laid out. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 27, 2011, 02:41:12 PM
Just a note from the Dame in the other thread:  Mods do not have access to PMs unless someone reports a PM they receive to them.

Mods, do the banned/gagged posters have a way to contact you?  In the interests of fairness, if someone feels they have been unfairly moderated, it would be nice if they could present their case to you.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Tigger on October 27, 2011, 02:42:20 PM
I'm happy that at least SOME of the drama will die down.   If you don't like the rules; leave.   I feel the same way about facebook.  I'm tired of people complaining all the time about something that's free .  Everyone is busy including the people who run and manage this FREE forum. 

It's one thing to start a discussion but lately all I have seen is whinging which really defeats the purpose of this board.

Constructive discussion is always welcome, drama is not!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 02:43:06 PM
Just a note from the Dame in the other thread:  Mods do not have access to PMs unless someone reports a PM they receive to them.

Mods, do the banned/gagged posters have a way to contact you?  In the interests of fairness, if someone feels they have been unfairly moderated, it would be nice if they could present their case to you.

Anyone can contact the Dame though the website. I would assume she might be slow to reply given the drama and the glut of emails I have to assume she's receiving.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: ginlyn32 on October 27, 2011, 02:43:14 PM

I've been here through mass bannings before, and probably will again.

Ditto.  I'm not as naive as someone thought I was.  The Dame's rules are what we agree to abide by in order to post here.  I haven't seen one made yet that didn't have a solid reason as to the "whys".  Maybe I don't know the reason when they are announced.. but after reading/poking around the forum I can usually sus it out.

Why anyone banned recently or in the past is not my call to question.  I just try to learn a little about etiquette and treat others with respect.. even those who have me rolling my eyes.

Including what we do off this site?

"Write pron on the side and you won't be welcome here at all no matter how polite you appear."
 
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.75 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.75)

From EtiquettehellDame herself.

I can only take that quote to mean that if she doesn't like something we do (not just porn but anything) off this site, she can ban us.

Many people have said that this is her forum and she can run it as she pleases. Sure...it's a free country. So when she has no posters left but trolls and whiners, she'll have no one to blame but herself.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TurtleDove on October 27, 2011, 02:43:33 PM
I have not read each and every post on this forum (far from it) but one thing that has frustrated me is not understanding why decisions were made (in moderating, locking or deleting threads, banning or gagging posters), which means I have no idea whether I am also somehow violating some rule I don't know about.  To me, an explanation of "we have our reasons" makes allegations of favoritism gain momentum, when in reality there is likely a very reasonable explanation.  I do think that banning members for activities outside the forum is over the top, but then it is not my forum.   8)  I also think that moderating people for their politely expressed opinions is not appropriate (this has happened to me), but, again, not my forum!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: smidget23 on October 27, 2011, 02:44:59 PM
The mods rarely comment on the moderation they have taken against individual posters. Especially long term posters. So, it's possible. And several of them were warned in recent threads. It's also possible that they were temporarily gagged while this is sorted out to try to keep threads like this from starting even more drama.
Well of course they don't comment. It's easier to sweep everything under the rug and pretend that there are no elephants rampaging through the living room when you don't talk about the issues.  Unfortunately ignorance is not always bliss and this cycle of mass banning and forum splits happens every few years. You would think that people would have learned the first two times.

I am confused though. Where were several posters warned in recent threads? Were the warnings from other members or from staff?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TurtleDove on October 27, 2011, 02:46:51 PM
Where were several posters warned in recent threads? Were the warnings from other members or from staff?

This is what I am missing as well.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 02:47:04 PM

I've been here through mass bannings before, and probably will again.

Ditto.  I'm not as naive as someone thought I was.  The Dame's rules are what we agree to abide by in order to post here.  I haven't seen one made yet that didn't have a solid reason as to the "whys".  Maybe I don't know the reason when they are announced.. but after reading/poking around the forum I can usually sus it out.

Why anyone banned recently or in the past is not my call to question.  I just try to learn a little about etiquette and treat others with respect.. even those who have me rolling my eyes.

Including what we do off this site?

"Write pron on the side and you won't be welcome here at all no matter how polite you appear."
 
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.75 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.75)

From EtiquettehellDame herself.

I can only take that quote to mean that if she doesn't like something we do (not just porn but anything) off this site, she can ban us.

Many people have said that this is her forum and she can run it as she pleases. Sure...it's a free country. So when she has no posters left but trolls and whiners, she'll have no one to blame but herself.

if one would read farther along in that thread, where the Dame revealed what has been going on behind the scenes, the latest bannings make a great deal of sense.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: smidget23 on October 27, 2011, 02:47:12 PM
Ehhh.  people that have been banned know why.  It really is very simple, read the posting guidelines and it is all laid out.

That may not always be true. I've come across a couple postings throughout the interwebs (blogs/forums) from banned members who had no clue why they were banned. They just tried to log in and got a ban message.

ETA: I have no idea if the previous members are telling the truth or not, but given that the stories all seem to match up they are at least believable.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 02:47:30 PM

I've been here through mass bannings before, and probably will again.

Ditto.  I'm not as naive as someone thought I was.  The Dame's rules are what we agree to abide by in order to post here.  I haven't seen one made yet that didn't have a solid reason as to the "whys".  Maybe I don't know the reason when they are announced.. but after reading/poking around the forum I can usually sus it out.

Why anyone banned recently or in the past is not my call to question.  I just try to learn a little about etiquette and treat others with respect.. even those who have me rolling my eyes.

Including what we do off this site?

"Write pron on the side and you won't be welcome here at all no matter how polite you appear."
 
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.75 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.75)

From EtiquettehellDame herself.

I can only take that quote to mean that if she doesn't like something we do (not just porn but anything) off this site, she can ban us.

Many people have said that this is her forum and she can run it as she pleases. Sure...it's a free country. So when she has no posters left but trolls and whiners, she'll have no one to blame but herself.

I too was taken aback by that comment, so I sought clarification.

I PMed the Dame to clarify this. In essence, if you write pron on the side and no one knows about it here, that's fine. They aren't going to go looking for it. But, if people know about it, especially if you link to it, that's violating the "TMI" rule about talking about scrabble.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: HushHush on October 27, 2011, 02:47:36 PM
I don't post much but I have reported things that I thought were reportable offenses and nothing has ever seemed to be done about any of it.  I understand the frustration of others.

I thought the warnings were from the new automatic system.  ???
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 02:47:53 PM
Ahhhh ok it makes more sense now.

For those wondering how this works, does anyone remember Livejournal? On that site you have your own blog, as well as groups you can post in that operate much like a forum. In large groups (thousands of members) for example, stupid_free, there would be spinoff groups like sf_drama whose sole purpose was to make fun of the original group, often called "snark communities." They would post threads and make fun of the OP or responses to it. Usually the groups required an application and moderator approval, similar to a private facebook group. Once in a while a snark group would go way too far, like posting a target's full name, email, etc. which violated the TOS - and then the group would be deleted. Sometimes another group would form, such as "Sf_Drama_2."

It sounds like there was a private facebook "snark" group of Ehell members who recruited other members via PM. I'm guessing that the snark group was for openly complaining about Ehellions who annoyed the members in some way. It sounds like someone who got a recruitment memo reported the PM to the mods. Unlike the sensei thread, where the leader "hacked" the info, the info was in fact the result of a complaint.

If that is in fact what happened - that the group's purpose was solely meanspirited - I think it is fine to ban the members. I presume the mods have access to the content of the group.

FWIW I used to be a member of several LJ snark communities and grew out of it in my early 20s. Making fun of people used to be entertaining - it had nothing to do with my self esteem, I just love a good "roast," even of myself (and I would snark on myself openly). It became less funny when some people who had been snarked on LJ tried to get a friend of mine fired for his posts there. It didn't work, but it definitely was a reminder that everything on the internet should be considered public and permanent.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 02:48:46 PM
Schmoopie3928 is another poster who was banned, who didn't bully or bring malice here.

*uproarious laughter*  I LOVE threads like this because stupid trolls expose themselves gloriously  and makes the mod job much easier and faster. 

Schmoopie and Rainda were banned this morning AFTER they both tried to create new IDs.  Given that Nanny Ogg posted this morning on a FB group that their troll group members were creating new troll IDS to get into Ehell, it seemed quite appropriate to nip that right in the bud since both were on a "suspicious list" anyway.

People can contact me by other means.  Email, FB PM and even through the blog comments.  And trust me, a few have.  TrishLoves DOlphins professed her hatred of this forum for years.   A few have complained about friends being banned with no explanation or defense as to why their friend would be involved with such a nasty group or expressing any remorse for being there.  But I, and Ticia to a leser extent, have been receiving PMs from people for whom the light bulb has gone off in their heads.  They finally understand what has been happening on this forum, and they are relieved it is being addressed.

People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying".   Some got banned for bald faced lying to me.  Some of those banned already had a few warnings (and a few previous gags, too)  to their credit and their participation on the SSG pushed it over the limit or I just got sick of their continued drama that dragged this forum down.  Others for purposely publicly criticizing the moderation without ever once using the tools to help moderators do the job.  For example, not one person griping on this thread  about who got banned has PMed any mod to discuss a possible "collateral damage" ban that should be reversed.  Not one.   And there are lots of people on this forum who know from personal experience that a private PM apologizing or explaining something is given a fair hearing. 

For those of you reading this thread who still are  part of that secret Facebook group but swear you did not participate in the nastiness, shame on you for being a coward.  Each FB group has a "Report This Group" link at the top and when the cyberbullying started and people egging each other to go to Ehell and  dogpile on certain forum members, you should have left the group or reported it as a violation of Facebook Terms of Service.  I'm getting PMs from people who were there on that group and the behavior being reported is disgusting.   If you sat there reading the drama, knowing it was causing problems on Ehell, or hurting people and you did nothing, you were part of the problem and definitely not part of the solution. 

Now, excuse me, I see some trolls I need to ban. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: The Legend of Daisy on October 27, 2011, 02:51:45 PM
I don't post much but I have reported things that I thought were reportable offenses and nothing has ever seemed to be done about any of it.  I understand the frustration of others.

I thought the warnings were from the new automatic system.  ???
I'm actually starting to wonder if the report to mod system is glitchy or if I'm doing it wrong. There was one locked thread where the someone was warned for responding to a contentious post and the mod said no-one reported the original contentious post. But I know I did!

When you report something are you supposed to get a confirmation? I just write my reason in that little box.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
Where were several posters warned in recent threads? Were the warnings from other members or from staff?

This is what I am missing as well.

Others for purposely publicly criticizing the moderation without ever once using the tools to help moderators do the job. 


This is specifically what I was referring to when I said some people had been publicly warned.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 02:57:15 PM
As far as I know, none of the recently banned members have done anything to warrent a banning.

.

I think that depends. I think that a banning is warranted if someone starts a thread specifically to create drama and trouble on this forum.

Threads like this:
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105544.0
and as pointed out here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2526022#msg2526022
"A thread "Calling out the moderators" for their actions is just never going to go over well, though."

If you have an issue with the moderation, take it up with them privately.

What on earth are talking about???? The Dame supported Lady Pekoe in the first thread you linked.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 03:00:10 PM
As far as I know, none of the recently banned members have done anything to warrent a banning.

.

I think that depends. I think that a banning is warranted if someone starts a thread specifically to create drama and trouble on this forum.

Threads like this:
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105544.0
and as pointed out here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2526022#msg2526022
"A thread "Calling out the moderators" for their actions is just never going to go over well, though."

If you have an issue with the moderation, take it up with them privately.

What on earth are talking about???? The Dame supported Lady Pekoe in the first thread you linked.

There was both support and criticism in the response from the Dame. I was more referring to the direction parts of that thread started to take. Most of the threads I have read that I would cite as backing me up were locked and latter hidden while the mods discussed what was going on. That makes it harder to argue my point.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: P-p-p-penguin on October 27, 2011, 03:00:57 PM
I just wanted to pop in and say thank you for the clarification of this situation; things are actually making a lot of sense right now.  I hope that this will mean the atmosphere of the board will improve now :)

The Legend of Daisy - It is possible that your report could have crossed with the mod's post?  If you are supposed to get confirmation that a report has been sent then I've never received one, so am inclined to think that is something we don't get.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: 567Kate on October 27, 2011, 03:04:02 PM
I don't post much but I have reported things that I thought were reportable offenses and nothing has ever seemed to be done about any of it.  I understand the frustration of others.

I thought the warnings were from the new automatic system.  ???
I'm actually starting to wonder if the report to mod system is glitchy or if I'm doing it wrong. There was one locked thread where the someone was warned for responding to a contentious post and the mod said no-one reported the original contentious post. But I know I did!

When you report something are you supposed to get a confirmation? I just write my reason in that little box.

I've never received a confirmation, but make sure that you're clicking Submit on the page where you can add the reason. It won't go through to the mods until you do that.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 03:05:34 PM


People can contact me by other means.  Email, FB PM and even through the blog comments.  And trust me, a few have.  TrishLoves DOlphins professed her hatred of this forum for years.

You know, I would love to see proof of this. Cause there is none. I left here 2 years ago because of moderation problems. At the time, I contact you TWICE got no response. So the THIRD time, I asked for my stuff to be deleted and told you exactly why I was leaving. I wasn't rude, I wasn't hateful. I didn't even tell anyone on the board I was leaving. Then, I didn't think about this place again. The only reason I've been around the last month or 2 has been because I thought I'd try it out again and lurk. Then saw something interesting to post on. In fact, I highly encourage anyone to look at my old threads. Please. Do. It will only prove my point. Trishlovesdolphins.

If you'd like to continue to slander me, by all means go ahead. Since you'd like to do that already, why don't you tell me what rule I broke to be banned? 2 posts in 2 years, and I'm banned. By your own rules I should have been warned, and if you look back at those posts they didn't attack anyone. I think the real reason your panties are in a bunch (and yeah, I'm aware that's "snarky") is that I went through and started deleting as much of my information as I could. Even though, I've never seen a rule against that. All I asked was for my account to be deleted. You want to single me out for "hating" you, by all means do so.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SiotehCat on October 27, 2011, 03:05:44 PM
So, now we have an idea of which posters the super secret group didn't care for.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiara on October 27, 2011, 03:07:06 PM
Well, that certainly made ME sympathetic to your cause, bookworm.

It did bring up a point, though.  I myself used to wonder "Who died and made the Dame ruler...." until I started my own small forum for something unrelated.  And you know what?  She pays, she rules.  I pay (probably a LOT less) for my forum, and I'm the deciding vote on all decisions.  Period.  Because it's my playground, and my name on the dang thing.

I have a lot more sympathy for the mods and admins here after I became one myself.  No one is perfect, but I think they try.

And Sio....I may not always agree with your viewpoints, but I for one like that they make me think.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: yokozbornak on October 27, 2011, 03:07:13 PM
This all certainly explains a lot.  What I don't understand is why people who hate the people who post here and hate the forum owner and moderator want to post here in the first place.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 03:07:43 PM
POTTY MOUTHED INSULTS AND NONSENSE

Wow. If this is supposed to somehow convince us the mods are unreasonable in their bannings, what a massive PR failure. I think the troll group needs a better press release  ::). It really sounds like the FB group was to encourage trolling just like this. If posters here upset you enough that you need a support group to vent your frustration, perhaps you don't belong on the internet.

Again I'm a veteran of many LJ snark groups, I understand the draw of them, but there is nothing "ballsy" (pardon my french) about being confrontational and crass on the internet.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 27, 2011, 03:08:14 PM
This all certainly explains a lot.  What I don't understand is why people who hate the people who post here and hate the forum owner and moderator want to post here in the first place.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Tigger on October 27, 2011, 03:09:02 PM
Sio  -

Ignore the mean post.  :o   Some people have nothing better to do than hurt others.   ::)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: silvercelt on October 27, 2011, 03:09:14 PM
Wait...did I read this right? Rainha, Aventurine, wyozozo, LadyPekoe, vTenebrae, and the others mentioned in this thread have all been banned?? ?

The mods rarely comment on the moderation they have taken against individual posters. Especially long term posters. So, it's possible. And several of them were warned in recent threads. It's also possible that they were temporarily gagged while this is sorted out to try to keep threads like this from starting even more drama.

Y'all can add me to the list as well-- bookworm317. Some of you may have known me as cnada(from YEARS ago) and then crazyTKDgirl...(cut out nonsensical ranting)
Peace out.

Wow.  I don't think anyone will have to wonder why you were banned.

I am amused that you are raging against Ehelldame for not accepting that people have their own opinions, while lashing out at Siotehcat and Lisbeth for having and following theirs.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rashea on October 27, 2011, 03:10:32 PM
Wait...did I read this right? Rainha, Aventurine, wyozozo, LadyPekoe, vTenebrae, and the others mentioned in this thread have all been banned?? ?

The mods rarely comment on the moderation they have taken against individual posters. Especially long term posters. So, it's possible. And several of them were warned in recent threads. It's also possible that they were temporarily gagged while this is sorted out to try to keep threads like this from starting even more drama.

Y'all can add me to the list as well-- bookworm317. Some of you may have known me as cnada(from YEARS ago) and then crazyTKDgirl...
Peace out.

Wow.  I don't think anyone will have to wonder why you were banned.

I am amused that you are raging against Ehelldame for not accepting that people have their own opinions, while lashing out at Siotehcat and Lisbeth for having and following theirs.

I just find it amusing that she's been banned twice before, but still apparently thought the forum was good enough to keep coming back to.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: silvercelt on October 27, 2011, 03:12:34 PM
Wait...did I read this right? Rainha, Aventurine, wyozozo, LadyPekoe, vTenebrae, and the others mentioned in this thread have all been banned?? ?

The mods rarely comment on the moderation they have taken against individual posters. Especially long term posters. So, it's possible. And several of them were warned in recent threads. It's also possible that they were temporarily gagged while this is sorted out to try to keep threads like this from starting even more drama.

Y'all can add me to the list as well-- bookworm317. Some of you may have known me as cnada(from YEARS ago) and then crazyTKDgirl...
Peace out.

Wow.  I don't think anyone will have to wonder why you were banned.

I am amused that you are raging against Ehelldame for not accepting that people have their own opinions, while lashing out at Siotehcat and Lisbeth for having and following theirs.

I just find it amusing that she's been banned twice before, but still apparently thought the forum was good enough to keep coming back to.

Well, there is that also.  :)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on October 27, 2011, 03:13:37 PM
Ehhh.  people that have been banned know why.  It really is very simple, read the posting guidelines and it is all laid out.

That may not always be true. I've come across a couple postings throughout the interwebs (blogs/forums) from banned members who had no clue why they were banned. They just tried to log in and got a ban message.

ETA: I have no idea if the previous members are telling the truth or not, but given that the stories all seem to match up they are at least believable.

While I haven't been banned, I certainly have no idea why various threads of mine have been locked.  They've just suddenly been locked for no reason I can readily discern.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: kingsrings on October 27, 2011, 03:15:33 PM
Ideally, the disgruntled posters who started their own FB group to bash and try to get posters they didn't care for banned should have just left the forum entirely and started their own forum. Why they didn't do that, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 03:15:56 PM
Just a note from the Dame in the other thread:  Mods do not have access to PMs unless someone reports a PM they receive to them.

Mods, do the banned/gagged posters have a way to contact you?  In the interests of fairness, if someone feels they have been unfairly moderated, it would be nice if they could present their case to you.

Of course they do.  The blog comments are often used when people need to reach me fast since I update them four times a day and until I approve it, the comment is private.  People have also used the "Submit a story" email link to reach me.  Some have even used the Media Press Kit email. 

A few have contacted me.  I'd describe it as more of a "go to hell" message than any attempt to explain oneself or clear up a confusion.  I did warn the mods of the possibility of collateral damage, i.e. people being swept up in a ban because they happened to be too close to the drama.  I haven't had a single person appeal for clemency yet.

***Hear me very clearly, the fact that their so called "friends" have outed them publicly on this forum as having been banned makes it doubly hard for them to return with no stain on their reputation or people remembering it.   The moderators almost never publicize gags or bans but some people chose to have foolish "friends" who see nothing amiss in choosing to broadcast embarrassing information.  I'd go so far as to think that some "friends" are not really true friends at all. What kind of friend exposes you that way?  It's not a kindness.    And public exposure is manipulating the moderators to take an action using their friends as pawns. *** 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TheBardess on October 27, 2011, 03:16:26 PM
If bookworm's foul-mouthed snitfest was at all indicative of the behavior engaged in by the "Super-Secret Group," I'm kind of wondering why these people were drawn to an etiquette forum in the first place. There are some posters here I don't particularly care for, it's true- that's to be expected on a large forum. And occasionally someone will post something that makes me turn to my husband and go "Can you believe this? I mean, is this person insane?? ?" But I would never badmouth this forum or its other posters in the sort of manner we've seen on display here.

And Sio, I usually disagree with the things you post, but I like reading what you have to say because it is so different. It always gets me thinking about things, and you are always polite, even when people respond in a not-so-nice manner.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TurtleDove on October 27, 2011, 03:16:38 PM
While I haven't been banned, I certainly have no idea why various threads of mine have been locked.  They've just suddenly been locked for no reason I can readily discern.

Yes, several posters have been pretty vocal about wanting to understand the "why" behind moderation of various forms so that we can learn from it and avoid whatever the problem was in the future.  When we don't know, we can't modify our behavior.  And if it were obviously against the rules, I know I at least would never have done whatever it was.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: angilamae on October 27, 2011, 03:18:51 PM
I'm glad i read this.  I have been frustrated about certain decisons but people are right, i dont know whats going on behind the scenes

I do hope that if people are upset and unhappy about something they think is unfair they can (politely) bring it up to the mod team or the dame .  I know I have been afraid to speak my mind sometimes but I'm glad to know that I can (privately and politely of course)

Thanks Ehell Dame for clarifiying a bit
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 27, 2011, 03:20:53 PM
Just a note from the Dame in the other thread:  Mods do not have access to PMs unless someone reports a PM they receive to them.

Mods, do the banned/gagged posters have a way to contact you?  In the interests of fairness, if someone feels they have been unfairly moderated, it would be nice if they could present their case to you.

Of course they do.  The blog comments are often used when people need to reach me fast since I update them four times a day and until I approve it, the comment is private.  People have also used the "Submit a story" email link to reach me.  Some have even used the Media Press Kit email. 

Thanks.  I don't spend a lot of time on the blog so I forgot about that option.  I was being sucked in a little with some of the posted names, wondering if they'd been caught unfairly in the net but in light of some of the comments you've received...   ::)

Apparently, I am just that naive.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TheDisappeared on October 27, 2011, 03:21:41 PM
While I haven't been banned, I certainly have no idea why various threads of mine have been locked.  They've just suddenly been locked for no reason I can readily discern.

Yes, several posters have been pretty vocal about wanting to understand the "why" behind moderation of various forms so that we can learn from it and avoid whatever the problem was in the future.  When we don't know, we can't modify our behavior.  And if it were obviously against the rules, I know I at least would never have done whatever it was.

If you want to know the why of something PM a mod and ask.  My understanding of not posting why moderation takes place is to keep drama on the forum to a minimum. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TheBardess on October 27, 2011, 03:22:26 PM
Seeing the nasty posts here and some of the bitter snark that is pouring out on the Facebook group (the public one, not the super-secret one) does not make me sympathetic to the "cause" of the banned. It...sort of just drives me further into the Dame's camp.

Those of you who are fed-up with the "totalitarian regime" of E-Hell might want to re-think your PR strategy.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 03:23:06 PM

A few have contacted me.  I'd describe it as more of a "go to hell" message than any attempt to explain oneself or clear up a confusion.  I did warn the mods of the possibility of collateral damage, i.e. people being swept up in a ban because they happened to be too close to the drama.  I haven't had a single person appeal for clemency yet.


Mine said nothing of the sort. Mine said, "If you're going to ban me, even though I didn't attack anyone. You could at least delete my account like I asked when I left 2 years ago." I didn't say go to hell. I don't even want you to unban my account. I couldn't care less. I thought that after 2 years I'd try it out again since I was re-connecting with friends from ehell. I don't need this site to be friends with them.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 27, 2011, 03:23:46 PM
You know what is really sad about this entire affair, all these hate groups and posts aren't being done by some teenagers, they are being done by "adults" and "mature" people...some into their mid 50's and beyond.  Now, if that isn't pathetic, I don't know what is.  What I find even sadder is that these people knew right from wrong but decided to be a part of the problem and not a part of the solution.

I'm not sure as to why these people think that it is cool to go to some forum, act like you are a part of said community, then decide to lower yourself to the level of trolling other users or attempting to create drama where none is needed.

I, personally, get quite a few PM's asking for clarification of things.  If I can't answer the question, then I bring it before all the other admins and mods.  We may not always agree on everything but we all definitely are ensuring that this forum and these boards are a safe place for people to post and to ensure that they aren't persecuted.

What I find even more entertaining is that those members that were banned are already attempting to create other accounts to get back into these forums again.  Some of these members (e.g. Bookworm 317) have basically stated how much they hate this place yet they somehow need to come here as if it is their identity.

Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.

Ehelldame has given anybody who wishes to appeal the ban ruling several avenues they can use to communicate with her and I'm sure the other mods info can be also gleaned by other members.

If you make or made a mistake, own up to it and explain why you screwed up.  Yes, there were those who were members or who were aware of the FB group but they did nothing to stop it, did nothing to warn of what was happening, and we got left picking up the pieces.  I mean really, do people truly have that much time to be causing problems on E-hell.  If so, they need to get out and about a little more.

As for those who were banned, in my opinion, all the great deeds in the world can be quickly undone by doing dishonorable acts.  There are many still on Ehell who I think are excellent posters and they have proven to be great sources of comfort and information.

This isn't the first purge that E-hell has undergone and it survived just fine, contrary to those naysayers who say it will only be inhabited by trolls.  It seems that the only people making the loudest noise and the ones trying to get back in after they were banned are the trolls.

Irony is so ironic.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on October 27, 2011, 03:30:36 PM
I've left a forum before because I just didn't enjoy the environment anymore.  I didn't deactivate the account and will occasionally lurk just to see what the members I did like are up to but I don't post anymore.  So I could see why someone might lurk in a forum they don't like but I don't get why someone would remain active in a forum if they had such a problem with it.

Well other than to kick up drama and stir the pot.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 03:31:04 PM

That may not always be true. I've come across a couple postings throughout the interwebs (blogs/forums) from banned members who had no clue why they were banned. They just tried to log in and got a ban message.

ETA: I have no idea if the previous members are telling the truth or not, but given that the stories all seem to match up they are at least believable.

There are a few cases where a mod adds an IP address to a ban trigger and it unfortunately catches other people using the same IP address (like a web cafe or public wifi).  All they have to do is ask and we check it out and fix it.   But some people go off half cocked screaming they've been banned when it was really an accident. 

And then there's Hanna whose blog has attracted some members who believe she was cruelly banned from the forum.  The reality is she was deleting her all posts like a fiend creating threads that looked like Swiss cheese and she was gagged for 7 days.   No ban.   The gag expired after 7 days.   Each profile logs the exact date and time you were last in Ehell and Hanna has been visiting here at Ehell as recently as a few days ago.   

Some people get a few days gag, done quietly just between mods and person, and it is the end of the world.  Everyone knows they've been "BANNED".  Well, after drama like that, we probably will make it permanent. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Harriet Jones on October 27, 2011, 03:33:54 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.

So it's ok for the mods to make statements like these about members of the forum?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Namárië on October 27, 2011, 03:34:38 PM
CakeBeret, rashea clarified the pron thing earlier in the thread—it's not about writing it, it's about bringing it to the forum.

I'm sad to hear about all of the drama that has been brought to the forum. :( It's just so distressing to know that people felt this way about EHell...
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MOM21SON on October 27, 2011, 03:35:17 PM
Ehhh.  people that have been banned know why.  It really is very simple, read the posting guidelines and it is all laid out.

That may not always be true. I've come across a couple postings throughout the interwebs (blogs/forums) from banned members who had no clue why they were banned. They just tried to log in and got a ban message.

ETA: I have no idea if the previous members are telling the truth or not, but given that the stories all seem to match up they are at least believable.

While I haven't been banned, I certainly have no idea why various threads of mine have been locked.  They've just suddenly been locked for no reason I can readily discern.

The MODS may have seen what was to become of the thread.  A thread being locked doesn't necessarily mean you were the offender.  I have been warned publically on Ehell.  Did it feel good?  No.  but it made me step back and take a look at how others percieve me. 

To noone in particular, this is a free forum.  If you don't like it, then leave.  It really is that simple.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 03:36:14 PM
Well, that certainly made ME sympathetic to your cause, bookworm.

It did bring up a point, though.  I myself used to wonder "Who died and made the Dame ruler...." until I started my own small forum for something unrelated.  And you know what?  She pays, she rules.  I pay (probably a LOT less) for my forum, and I'm the deciding vote on all decisions.  Period.  Because it's my playground, and my name on the dang thing.

I have a lot more sympathy for the mods and admins here after I became one myself.  No one is perfect, but I think they try.


I have my own forum to. I have to mod it just like anyone else with one. I make sure that those I intrust to mod do so uniformly and fairly. Whether that means more mods or ones that have more time to devote to sitting at the computer. I also don't just decide to ban anyone based on their actions outside of the forum. Until it hits my board, it doesn't exist. That's not a stance against mods. I've been gone 2 years and just started lurking again in the last month or 2. I have no opinion on that other than to say based on everyone's reaction, it hasn't gotten better.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: HushHush on October 27, 2011, 03:38:13 PM
CakeBeret, rashea clarified the pron thing earlier in the thread—it's not about writing it, it's about bringing it to the forum.

I'm sad to hear about all of the drama that has been brought to the forum. :( It's just so distressing to know that people felt this way about EHell...

How does rashea know that's what the Dame meant?  She gave her interpretation of the statement but I haven't seen the Dame agree with it.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Xallanthia on October 27, 2011, 03:38:57 PM
Wow, a post just disappeared when I clicked on it to quote it.  That's the first time I've seen that happen.

But all I can say is, I'm so glad I never joined anything Facebook-related for any online community.  I'd rather enjoy you all here under my nice assumed name. 

Ehell has always been stricter about moderation than any other community I've been part of.  There are positives and negatives to that, but so far, I'm still here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: DuBois on October 27, 2011, 03:39:11 PM

I, for one, am grateful if dead wood has been cut. It proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that longstanding members are not favoured over new ones. I wish to publically apologise for having doubted that, before. Behaviour seems to be what counts here, which is what matters.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: CakeBeret on October 27, 2011, 03:40:03 PM
CakeBeret, rashea clarified the pron thing earlier in the thread—it's not about writing it, it's about bringing it to the forum.

I'm sad to hear about all of the drama that has been brought to the forum. :( It's just so distressing to know that people felt this way about EHell...

Yes, thanks. I wrote a post and forgot to hit the 'post' button and got called away...came back 40 minutes later, hit 'post' and then realized that my concerns had been addressed in the time I was gone. I deleted my post since it was no longer relevant. I hope that doesn't cause any issues. :)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 03:40:35 PM
Seeing the nasty posts here and some of the bitter snark that is pouring out on the Facebook group (the public one, not the super-secret one) does not make me sympathetic to the "cause" of the banned. It...sort of just drives me further into the Dame's camp.

Those of you who are fed-up with the "totalitarian regime" of E-Hell might want to re-think your PR strategy.

I certainly am surprised by how many people have posted at the public group and said what their screen names are.  Me? I don't like a place.. I go somewhere else.  The internet is certainly big enough to find some place more to my liking.  And then I don't expend any negative energy.  Win, win!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: afbluebelle on October 27, 2011, 03:40:51 PM
Finally read all the threads of recent events, and I have to say that I am mildly shocked. Not the "swooning with a hanky" shocked, but still... I guess I thought a lot of people here were more close knit than they are, or the community was mellower, or something. I will go on record saying I have NEVER been close to perfect (E-hell is the only thing that keeps me walking upright some days), but it kind o makes me sad that a large number of people that I did like... well, things turned out like that.

This is all kind of weird. Maybe I'm just upset that there was a secret party and I wasn't invited. Kinda feels like high school and I wonder what people are saying about me in the hypothetical locker room  :P


Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TychaBrahe on October 27, 2011, 03:40:54 PM
This isn't the first purge that E-hell has undergone and it survived just fine, contrary to those naysayers who say it will only be inhabited by trolls.  It seems that the only people making the loudest noise and the ones trying to get back in after they were banned are the trolls.

With all due respect, sir, thing are not "just fine."

Have you looked at the statistics?  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?action=stats

The new threads started and new posts have been dropping slowly but steadily for the past two years.  Last month was the first time since 2006 that there were fewer than 1000 new threads started.  Even in the very first month, when a lot of people had not immediately made the jump from Delphooey to the new board there were more new threads created than last month.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 27, 2011, 03:41:49 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.

So it's ok for the mods to make statements like these about members of the forum?

Actually, I singled nobody out on this one.  Also, there were some mod reports that were very hate-filled and it made me step back and wonder why they were here at all.  Unless you are one of the people that has made a hate-filled moderation report, there is no reason to worry.  I'm sorry if you think this is being harsh but Bookworm 317 is just a drop in the ocean of some of the nasty things we have seen and I stand behind my statement 100% that if you act like this on a forum, it doesn't make me think it's a stretch to think you are like that (to some degree) in real life.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: ginlyn32 on October 27, 2011, 03:42:01 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.

So it's ok for the mods to make statements like these about members of the forum?

It's what I'd like to know as well. Pretty RUDE statement to make!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 03:42:15 PM

lilgremlin is actually Trishlovesdolphins.  Duplicate accounts have never been allowed on this forum.  But I leave Trish's posts stand as evidence that there is a reason why some people get removed from here.  Don't like the forum?  Walk away.  Live your life.  Have fun!  Life is too short to be bitter for years. 



People can contact me by other means.  Email, FB PM and even through the blog comments.  And trust me, a few have.  TrishLoves DOlphins professed her hatred of this forum for years.

You know, I would love to see proof of this. Cause there is none. I left here 2 years ago because of moderation problems. At the time, I contact you TWICE got no response. So the THIRD time, I asked for my stuff to be deleted and told you exactly why I was leaving. I wasn't rude, I wasn't hateful. I didn't even tell anyone on the board I was leaving. Then, I didn't think about this place again. The only reason I've been around the last month or 2 has been because I thought I'd try it out again and lurk. Then saw something interesting to post on. In fact, I highly encourage anyone to look at my old threads. Please. Do. It will only prove my point. Trishlovesdolphins.

If you'd like to continue to slander me, by all means go ahead. Since you'd like to do that already, why don't you tell me what rule I broke to be banned? 2 posts in 2 years, and I'm banned. By your own rules I should have been warned, and if you look back at those posts they didn't attack anyone. I think the real reason your panties are in a bunch (and yeah, I'm aware that's "snarky") is that I went through and started deleting as much of my information as I could. Even though, I've never seen a rule against that. All I asked was for my account to be deleted. You want to single me out for "hating" you, by all means do so.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on October 27, 2011, 03:44:05 PM
Personally I think the 'hate' assumptions are quite misleading to the nature of the FB group in question. Everyone is entitled to have opinions and state them in a private forum if they choose.

I'd hate to think a broad brush is being given to everyone who might be part of a particular group without having some sort of justification on the e-hell forum post/reports to back up a gagging or banning. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on October 27, 2011, 03:46:57 PM
I once had a thread locked that I had created (no, come to think of it, there 2).  After the embarrassment wore off, I was able to look at the threads a little objectively, and Hathor (BTW, the Egyptian goddess of all that is enjoyable in life!), I really don't think it had anything to do with me.  One had veered abruptly into legal territory, and the other had two posters who took opposite positions and had chosen to snark it out.  So, Hathor, don't take it personally, if there was no comment from a mod, it probably had nothing to do with you.

I also have to add that I was looking at some older locked threads today, all from this spring and summer.  I definitely noticed a pattern where one person in particular was being attacked or dogpiled or generally denigrated.  Oh, dear, that person was one of the targets!  And then another one: that person was a target also!  Members who had been around awhile would start an innocuous thread, and it would shortly be locked.  I would read it to see what had happened only to find absolute vitriol being spewed on the OP.  Stuff was being dredged up from years ago.  No wonder these last few months have felt like there was so much free floating hostility and paranoia.

In terms of mods getting back to us, I once questioned a mod because a thread disappeared and I had never seen it before.  I received a timely response which confirmed that I had not imagined the thread.  A very polite interaction.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on October 27, 2011, 03:48:10 PM
I also have to POD Affluebelle.  Since I was never "recruited," I've been wondering if I was one of the ones targeted.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: P-p-p-penguin on October 27, 2011, 03:48:27 PM
CakeBeret, rashea clarified the pron thing earlier in the thread—it's not about writing it, it's about bringing it to the forum.

I'm sad to hear about all of the drama that has been brought to the forum. :( It's just so distressing to know that people felt this way about EHell...

How does rashea know that's what the Dame meant?  She gave her interpretation of the statement but I haven't seen the Dame agree with it.

Ehelldame said the following in this (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550306#msg2550306) thread:

"The only way anyone knows of pron fan fiction is because someone somehow, someway brought it into the forum."

"If you send unsolicited pron in PMs, yes, you will be reported and yes you will get banned for it.  "
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 03:48:38 PM
I made no secret that I am Trishlovesdolphins. Nor did I even use this account to post... until today. It's been active for around a month. No posts. If that's the "reason" you'd like to use for my banning, that's great. Though you and I both know you weren't aware of that when you banned the account I did use.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 03:51:08 PM
Personally I think the 'hate' assumptions are quite misleading to the nature of the FB group in question. Everyone is entitled to have opinions and state them in a private forum if they choose.

I'd hate to think a broad brush is being given to everyone who might be part of a particular group without having some sort of justification on the e-hell forum post/reports to back up a gagging or banning.

Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "

This isn't the first purge that E-hell has undergone and it survived just fine, contrary to those naysayers who say it will only be inhabited by trolls.  It seems that the only people making the loudest noise and the ones trying to get back in after they were banned are the trolls.

With all due respect, sir, thing are not "just fine."

Have you looked at the statistics?  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?action=stats

The new threads started and new posts have been dropping slowly but steadily for the past two years.  Last month was the first time since 2006 that there were fewer than 1000 new threads started.  Even in the very first month, when a lot of people had not immediately made the jump from Delphooey to the new board there were more new threads created than last month.



Considering one of things oft told people is that Hot Topics cause problems-- so read the older threads pertaining to whichever HT before posting.  Which leaves fewer things to bring up ergo fewer posts.

Personally, I prefer quality to quantity.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rose red on October 27, 2011, 03:52:53 PM
This thread is freaking me out.  There are posters that I don't care for and threads that have enraged me.  But to think a small group would actively recruit others to fuel the flames, target people, and cause trouble is, well, troubling.  And sad.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Xallanthia on October 27, 2011, 03:53:31 PM
I once had a thread locked that I had created (no, come to think of it, there 2).  After the embarrassment wore off, I was able to look at the threads a little objectively, and Hathor (BTW, the Egyptian goddess of all that is enjoyable in life!), I really don't think it had anything to do with me.  One had veered abruptly into legal territory, and the other had two posters who took opposite positions and had chosen to snark it out.  So, Hathor, don't take it personally, if there was no comment from a mod, it probably had nothing to do with you.

I agree.  The one I've had locked, I never got mod notice of, nor did a mod post in the thread, but I had already suspected it would potentially get locked due to the way the discussion was trending, added on to the original subject matter which was already skirting the edges, something I knew when I posted it.  In retrospect it should have gone in "I need a hug" rather than one of the general boards, or not been posted at all.  The sense was very, "You didn't necessarily do something wrong, but this discussion is going nowhere good."
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: DuBois on October 27, 2011, 03:55:33 PM
This thread is freaking me out.  There are posters that I don't care for and threads that have enraged me.  But to think a small group would actively recruit others to fuel the flames, target people, and cause trouble is, well, troubling.  And sad.

It's totally scary. But I am actually reassured by it, that the mods have everything in hand. I actually PM'ed a mod earlier, and she was very reassuring. I must confess that I never have been targeted as such, but some posters did seem to radiate hostility, so if that has been taken care of, the forum should be healthier.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 03:57:27 PM
As far as I know, none of the recently banned members have done anything to warrent a banning.

.

I think that depends. I think that a banning is warranted if someone starts a thread specifically to create drama and trouble on this forum.

Threads like this:
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105544.0
and as pointed out here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2526022#msg2526022
"A thread "Calling out the moderators" for their actions is just never going to go over well, though."

If you have an issue with the moderation, take it up with them privately.

What on earth are talking about???? The Dame supported Lady Pekoe in the first thread you linked.

There was both support and criticism in the response from the Dame. I was more referring to the direction parts of that thread started to take. Most of the threads I have read that I would cite as backing me up were locked and latter hidden while the mods discussed what was going on. That makes it harder to argue my point.
It seems to me that Lady Pekoe started that thread as a constructive way to help heal Ehell and you use it as an example of someone starting trouble...you have a very different world view than me.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 03:58:05 PM
This isn't the first purge that E-hell has undergone and it survived just fine, contrary to those naysayers who say it will only be inhabited by trolls.  It seems that the only people making the loudest noise and the ones trying to get back in after they were banned are the trolls.

With all due respect, sir, thing are not "just fine."

Have you looked at the statistics?  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?action=stats

The new threads started and new posts have been dropping slowly but steadily for the past two years.  Last month was the first time since 2006 that there were fewer than 1000 new threads started.  Even in the very first month, when a lot of people had not immediately made the jump from Delphooey to the new board there were more new threads created than last month.

that may all be true, Tycha.  there has also been a marked increase of nastiness to OPs in the last few months.  frankly, from what i've been seeing here, i wouldn't have started a thread dealing something personal either.

of course, now it becomes apparent exactly why OPs were enduring the nastiness. 

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 03:59:21 PM
I also have to POD Affluebelle.  Since I was never "recruited," I've been wondering if I was one of the ones targeted.

It makes me a little paranoid about the PMs I've exchanged about there being "something in the water" on ehell - both in regards to my threads and other people's threads. Sometimes a bunch of posters just seem to have it out for the OP and I have sometimes sent or received sympathetic PMs about it. It makes me wonder if some of that was the efforts of the troll group to specifically target people. None of the people I've PM'd with seem to have been banned, and I hope that means that the exchanges were genuine and honest, and not someone covering up for a known forum conspiracy!

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: afbluebelle on October 27, 2011, 04:03:14 PM
I just wanted to add that I'm not incredibly paranoid, it was just a random thought... I promise I'm not suspicious of everyone and everything. Just one of those "weird" feelings, because I know I've had my differences with posters in the past, but I would like to think that I've worked through most of them. I do try to be civilized, I promise... I don't come here intending ill will towards anyone.

Just wanted to add that because I'm not trying to start an "Oh noes, does everyone hate me" thing. Just having no knowledge of this whole thing makes it seem scarier than what it probably is. Whoever made the monster in the closet analogy in the other thread is very smart  ;D
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: hobish on October 27, 2011, 04:04:27 PM

I have been admonished, too. And yeah, wow, very embarrassing   <-- ETA – not sarcasm. It is embarrassing.

I have also emailed the mods a few times for clarification, or even to try to defend when I thought I was unfairly called out. Not once have I ever had a question or even a protest ignored. And even when I thought something was unfair they were really reasonable and polite.

FWIW, I did plan on contacting someone in an EHell friend’s defense instead of airing it out here. I just haven’t had time to sit down and put my thoughts together clearly. I still intend to once the hubbub dies down. At this point naming names publicly I think will just add to the drama, even if the intentions are golden.
…and I hope this post itself doesn’t do that. I hate biting myself in the tail. See embarrassment, above


17 replies since I started typing this. Holy cow.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on October 27, 2011, 04:05:26 PM
Personally I think the 'hate' assumptions are quite misleading to the nature of the FB group in question. Everyone is entitled to have opinions and state them in a private forum if they choose.

I'd hate to think a broad brush is being given to everyone who might be part of a particular group without having some sort of justification on the e-hell forum post/reports to back up a gagging or banning.

Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


bolded is mine above

If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. (unless it carried over onto e-hell in someway like posts, PM, reports, etc) Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

edit:fix quotes
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 04:08:49 PM
This thread is freaking me out.  There are posters that I don't care for and threads that have enraged me.  But to think a small group would actively recruit others to fuel the flames, target people, and cause trouble is, well, troubling.  And sad.

and entirely hearsay from what I can gather.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: DuBois on October 27, 2011, 04:10:42 PM
This thread is freaking me out.  There are posters that I don't care for and threads that have enraged me.  But to think a small group would actively recruit others to fuel the flames, target people, and cause trouble is, well, troubling.  And sad.

and entirely hearsay from what I can gather.

I doubt it's hearsay: the Dame says they've been following this for a while. It also explains certain posting patterns which were disturbing and puzzling.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Twik on October 27, 2011, 04:10:48 PM
I think that it's unfortunately part of human nature that when you have a large group of people, as in e-Hell, you tend to have subgroups form that can be divisive.

(And I know what other posters mean when they say they are uneasy that they were never contacted - even though I'm glad that I wasn't.)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 04:12:08 PM
Personally I think the 'hate' assumptions are quite misleading to the nature of the FB group in question. Everyone is entitled to have opinions and state them in a private forum if they choose.

I'd hate to think a broad brush is being given to everyone who might be part of a particular group without having some sort of justification on the e-hell forum post/reports to back up a gagging or banning.

Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash tal
k in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


bolded is mine above

If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. (unless it carried over onto e-hell in someway like posts, PM, reports, etc) Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

edit:fix quotes

Yep. There is where the drama lies. I wasn't posting, hell I was trying to remove information. I'd even settle for my old screen name to be changed to something else.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TychaBrahe on October 27, 2011, 04:12:21 PM
Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


bolded is mine above

If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. (unless it carried over onto e-hell in someway like posts, PM, reports, etc) Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

edit:fix quotes

I'd like to add, if a group exists that contains members of Ehell, how can they be "unwanted visitors"? 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: camlan on October 27, 2011, 04:12:54 PM
I just wanted to add that I'm not incredibly paranoid, it was just a random thought... I promise I'm not suspicious of everyone and everything. Just one of those "weird" feelings, because I know I've had my differences with posters in the past, but I would like to think that I've worked through most of them. I do try to be civilized, I promise... I don't come here intending ill will towards anyone.

Just wanted to add that because I'm not trying to start an "Oh noes, does everyone hate me" thing. Just having no knowledge of this whole thing makes it seem scarier than what it probably is. Whoever made the monster in the closet analogy in the other thread is very smart  ;D

You're not paranoid, afbluebelle. I've been having the same feeling over the past couple of days. Like, what the heck is going on here? Somehow I seem to have missed a lot of the drama threads, and I sort of feel like the earth is spinning the wrong way now, because I've got no clue what's going on. And not doing Facebook just makes everything more mysterious.

And for the record, afbluebelle, I for one always enjoy your posts and your insights.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 04:13:34 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.

So it's ok for the mods to make statements like these about members of the forum?

Actually, I singled nobody out on this one.  Also, there were some mod reports that were very hate-filled and it made me step back and wonder why they were here at all.  Unless you are one of the people that has made a hate-filled moderation report, there is no reason to worry.  I'm sorry if you think this is being harsh but Bookworm 317 is just a drop in the ocean of some of the nasty things we have seen and I stand behind my statement 100% that if you act like this on a forum, it doesn't make me think it's a stretch to think you are like that (to some degree) in real life.

So what if you didn't single someone out, it's still an unsettling attitude to see expressed bya Mod of an Etiquette forum.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: afbluebelle on October 27, 2011, 04:14:34 PM

I have been admonished, too. And yeah, wow, very embarrassing   <-- ETA – not sarcasm. It is embarrassing.



I believe you... still remember my first closed thread. I was really... emotional and ticked off when I wrote it, but I'm still a little ashamed I let it all fly out on the forum. (Friend's death/murder... I was overly heated) Not ashamed of my emotion, but I said some things that probably would be better voiced to a trusted IRL friend or a shrink. Roasting people alive is NOT etiquette approved.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: PurpleFrog on October 27, 2011, 04:16:21 PM
This thread makes me sad. I hope once the dust settles soon and we can alljust get on with what productive and interesting discussions. I will miss reading the posts of some of those banned, but we have to accept the mods decisions and trust their judgement I guess.

PurpleFrog who once again was not one of the cool kids and wonders what they talked about behind those bikesheads.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on October 27, 2011, 04:16:53 PM
This thread is freaking me out.  There are posters that I don't care for and threads that have enraged me.  But to think a small group would actively recruit others to fuel the flames, target people, and cause trouble is, well, troubling.  And sad.

and entirely hearsay from what I can gather.


I doubt it's hearsay: the Dame says they've been following this for a while. It also explains certain posting patterns which were disturbing and puzzling.

*bolded is mine above

I think this is the part that is a huge assumption and makes me sad for members of the group who probably had nothing at all to do with the situation caused here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 04:17:37 PM

Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

Because they were sent posts from the secret forum? http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 

The Dame posted a few excerpts of PMs too (with permission).  I am guessing just by the nature of the group (to bash EHellions) is falls against the rules. "People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

Also, Tychabrae asks "I'd like to add, if a group exists that contains members of Ehell, how can they be "unwanted visitors"?" Anyone causing trouble for EHell would be an unwelcome visitor in my book.. and aparently in the Dame's as well.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: auntmeegs on October 27, 2011, 04:17:52 PM
So, now we have an idea of which posters the super secret group didn't care for.

How do you mean?  Where are you seeing that? 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: 567Kate on October 27, 2011, 04:20:24 PM
So, now we have an idea of which posters the super secret group didn't care for.

How do you mean?  Where are you seeing that?

SiotehCat was referring to a nasty post that has already been deleted.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on October 27, 2011, 04:20:43 PM

Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

Because they were sent posts from the secret forum? http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 

The Dame posted a few excerpts of PMs too (with permission).  I am guessing just by the nature of the group (to bash EHellions) is falls against the rules. "People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "Also, Tychabrae asks "I'd like to add, if a group exists that contains members of Ehell, how can they be "unwanted visitors"?" Anyone causing trouble for EHell would be an unwelcome visitor in my book.. and aparently in the Dame's as well.

*bold is mine.

Again a HUGE assumption unless one has proof on the e-hell forum in someway.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 04:21:24 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with. Also, that's not the sole reason for the group. It's about being able to not be "ehell approved" all the time. We swear, we drink, we talk about sex. Now, how welcome is any of that here?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on October 27, 2011, 04:22:45 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with.

Agreed
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Twik on October 27, 2011, 04:25:53 PM

I have been admonished, too. And yeah, wow, very embarrassing   <-- ETA – not sarcasm. It is embarrassing.

I only got a mod warning once, but I think that must say more about the tolerance of everyone else, than my tact or wisdom in posting when I have the bit between my teeth. Yes, it's very embarrassing.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 04:28:04 PM
*Sigh*  :-\ This is awful.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 04:31:12 PM
CakeBeret, rashea clarified the pron thing earlier in the thread—it's not about writing it, it's about bringing it to the forum.

I'm sad to hear about all of the drama that has been brought to the forum. :( It's just so distressing to know that people felt this way about EHell...

How does rashea know that's what the Dame meant?  She gave her interpretation of the statement but I haven't seen the Dame agree with it.

You also haven't seen me disagree with it, have you?  Why? Because it's accurate.  Why are you seeing offense where none was intended?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: That Anime Chick on October 27, 2011, 04:32:27 PM
It's sadly funny, but when I read the posts of people complaining, all I can think about are those Subway commercials where the adults are talking, but they sound like little kids.


Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 04:33:19 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with. Also, that's not the sole reason for the group. It's about being able to not be "ehell approved" all the time. We swear, we drink, we talk about sex. Now, how welcome is any of that here?

Since I am not a mod and do not know anything more than what has been posted.. I can only guess you (under this nym) were banned for having 2 accounts.  Belonging to a public group that specifically complains about EHell might also have something to do with it.  Throw in a superduper secret group where fellow EHellions were made fun of? Yeah, no sympathy here.  Even if you left the SDSG .. you joined it in the first place.



Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

Because they were sent posts from the secret forum? http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 

The Dame posted a few excerpts of PMs too (with permission).  I am guessing just by the nature of the group (to bash EHellions) is falls against the rules. "People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "Also, Tychabrae asks "I'd like to add, if a group exists that contains members of Ehell, how can they be "unwanted visitors"?" Anyone causing trouble for EHell would be an unwelcome visitor in my book.. and aparently in the Dame's as well.

*bold is mine.

Again a HUGE assumption unless one is part of the group in question and has proof on the e-hell forum in someway.

I am guessing a few people in the secret group decided it went beyond the pale and copied/pasted and reported to a mod/Dame the contents.  One of the dangers of posting anything on the 'net as we all know.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Doll Fiend on October 27, 2011, 04:35:41 PM
I come here because I like the people I have met here. I am not the most eloquent in my posts, and I tend to keep it as simple as possible as well. I have felt that if I post wrong, I will either have to argue my point, (I am so non-confrontational) or get piled on by some one. Then after a while, it seemed the Mods were being heavy handed. I did not understand what was going on but now I have a feeling that I understand better.

I hope to keep the friends that I have made here, whether or not they are banned.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 04:38:33 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with. Also, that's not the sole reason for the group. It's about being able to not be "ehell approved" all the time. We swear, we drink, we talk about sex. Now, how welcome is any of that here?

Since I am not a mod and do not know anything more than what has been posted.. I can only guess you (under this nym) were banned for having 2 accounts.  Belonging to a public group that specifically complains about EHell might also have something to do with it.  Throw in a superduper secret group where fellow EHellions were made fun of? Yeah, no sympathy here.  Even if you left the SDSG .. you joined it in the first place.



I did join. I'm not denying it. Not one bit. Nor am I denying this is another account, I outted myself in this thread. But, that's not why the other account was banned. This account wasn't used for anything, not even PMs until today. It wasn't known about until after the banning.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ceallach on October 27, 2011, 04:40:04 PM
Don't like the forum?  Walk away.  Live your life.  Have fun!  Life is too short to be bitter for years. 

I just want to applaud you for this statement.  I usually avoid these threads as they seem so unconstructive.  I'm not sure what people are hoping to achieve by publicly making a fuss instead of politely addressing such concerns privately.  Or, as you suggest, just leaving.  It's YOUR forum at the end of the day. Do they think you're suddenly going to sign-over the site to them so they can run it the way they choose? 

I suspect there are other members such as myself who choose not to get involved in the whiney, complaining, overly-dramatic threads.  We enjoy eHell and participating in the forum to discuss etiquette, we like the community.   But at the end of they day it *is* just the internet.  I have walked away from eHell many times when I've realised I've become too emotionally invested / getting involved in drama / disagree with the tone of what's happening. My life is not impacted one way or the other.   Anyway, I just wanted to insert my voice into this one, because I feel we've seen a neverending stream recently of complaints, and I'm sure there are just as many of us who are actually fairly happy.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Twik on October 27, 2011, 04:41:23 PM
I must admit that when the invitation asks people to identify other posters that they "think are unstable", I think that the results may not be innocuous, even if the original intent of the group was perfectly innocent.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 04:42:47 PM
I must admit that when the invitation asks people to identify other posters that they "think are unstable", I think that the results may not be innocuous, even if the original intent of the group was perfectly innocent.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 27, 2011, 04:43:17 PM
Why are people still arguing about the evidence of what happened.  It did happen and that is the way it is.  For those people who were not directly involved but became "collateral" damage, Ehelldame has stated she will review those cases if those folks wish to contact her.

She has also mentioned that the only communication received thus far has just been nasty comments and nothing to do with pleading a case or even apologizing.

To me, if you folks are that concerned as to why others aren't back, ask them why they haven't appealed to the boss yet.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 04:45:00 PM
This isn't the first purge that E-hell has undergone and it survived just fine, contrary to those naysayers who say it will only be inhabited by trolls.  It seems that the only people making the loudest noise and the ones trying to get back in after they were banned are the trolls.

With all due respect, sir, thing are not "just fine."

Have you looked at the statistics?  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?action=stats

The new threads started and new posts have been dropping slowly but steadily for the past two years.  Last month was the first time since 2006 that there were fewer than 1000 new threads started.  Even in the very first month, when a lot of people had not immediately made the jump from Delphooey to the new board there were more new threads created than last month.

There are forum owners on the forum owner community boards who would give their right arms to have stats this robust. 

You could view the numbers as indicative of the members focusing on substantive discussion as opposed to fluffy crap that artificially cranks up the stats.  Someone can claim high numbers of posts but upon examination they are nothing more than "Me, too!", "Me, three!", vacuous garbage.  Besides, it's quality not quantity and that's the whole point of recent moderation...to get the quality back .   I'm not worried at all.  People are already PMing me that they are coming out of hiding to post again. 

You've been crankily critical lately Tyche in several recent threads.  Is there something you wish to discuss with me privately?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MOM21SON on October 27, 2011, 04:45:26 PM
I also have to POD Affluebelle.  Since I was never "recruited," I've been wondering if I was one of the ones targeted.

Why would you really care?  This is not "judgement day"  I know I am not liked my a lot of posters, well ok.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 04:45:46 PM
Don't like the forum?  Walk away.  Live your life.  Have fun!  Life is too short to be bitter for years. 

I just want to applaud you for this statement.  I usually avoid these threads as they seem so unconstructive.  I'm not sure what people are hoping to achieve by publicly making a fuss instead of politely addressing such concerns privately.  Or, as you suggest, just leaving.  It's YOUR forum at the end of the day. Do they think you're suddenly going to sign-over the site to them so they can run it the way they choose? 

I suspect there are other members such as myself who choose not to get involved in the whiney, complaining, overly-dramatic threads.  We enjoy eHell and participating in the forum to discuss etiquette, we like the community.   But at the end of they day it *is* just the internet.  I have walked away from eHell many times when I've realised I've become too emotionally invested / getting involved in drama / disagree with the tone of what's happening. My life is not impacted one way or the other.   Anyway, I just wanted to insert my voice into this one, because I feel we've seen a neverending stream recently of complaints, and I'm sure there are just as many of us who are actually fairly happy.

I'm not bitter. Not at all. All I was doing was modding the threads I started to remove any info that might be too personal. It's not an issue of bitterness. If I'm going to leave a forum, I do what I can to remove any identifying information. Names, events, etc.. my profile. Dame is free to do whatever she wants with her forum. Just as I am free to do whatever I want with mine. I don't give 2 flyin' flips about it. However, if I'm going to be banned for what I assume amounts to that information removal, yeah, I'm ticked. I'm civil, but I'm ticked. I've even said I'd settle for my screen name to be changed to something else, I don't even care what as long as it's not something identifying and my personal info out of the profile. That's it. Emails have gone ignored, and contrary to opinion they weren't nasty and hatefilled. Pointed, sure, but no more than any of the responses Dame has given.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 04:46:21 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with. Also, that's not the sole reason for the group. It's about being able to not be "ehell approved" all the time. We swear, we drink, we talk about sex. Now, how welcome is any of that here?

Since I am not a mod and do not know anything more than what has been posted.. I can only guess you (under this nym) were banned for having 2 accounts.  Belonging to a public group that specifically complains about EHell might also have something to do with it.  Throw in a superduper secret group where fellow EHellions were made fun of? Yeah, no sympathy here.  Even if you left the SDSG .. you joined it in the first place.



I did join. I'm not denying it. Not one bit. Nor am I denying this is another account, I outted myself in this thread. But, that's not why the other account was banned. This account wasn't used for anything, not even PMs until today. It wasn't known about until after the banning.

So she banned you perhaps because your name was still on SDSGs forum member list? Or maybe because long ago posts from there were sent to her/Mods? Or maybe because you are a member of the open EHell complaint group? I dunno.

But by using your second account to post here.. you broke another rule.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: bansidhe on October 27, 2011, 04:46:59 PM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: bansidhe on October 27, 2011, 04:49:10 PM
I also have to POD Affluebelle.  Since I was never "recruited," I've been wondering if I was one of the ones targeted.

I wasn't recruited either. I just figured they didn't find me interesting enough to consider - or didn't even realize I exist.  :D
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Doll Fiend on October 27, 2011, 04:50:02 PM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

If they were deleted. .  How can they provide proof?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on October 27, 2011, 04:51:01 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with. Also, that's not the sole reason for the group. It's about being able to not be "ehell approved" all the time. We swear, we drink, we talk about sex. Now, how welcome is any of that here?

Since I am not a mod and do not know anything more than what has been posted.. I can only guess you (under this nym) were banned for having 2 accounts.  Belonging to a public group that specifically complains about EHell might also have something to do with it.  Throw in a superduper secret group where fellow EHellions were made fun of? Yeah, no sympathy here.  Even if you left the SDSG .. you joined it in the first place.



I did join. I'm not denying it. Not one bit. Nor am I denying this is another account, I outted myself in this thread. But, that's not why the other account was banned. This account wasn't used for anything, not even PMs until today. It wasn't known about until after the banning.

So she banned you perhaps because your name was still on SDSGs forum member list? Or maybe because long ago posts from there were sent to her/Mods? Or maybe because you are a member of the open EHell complaint group? I dunno.

But by using your second account to post here.. you broke another rule.

So just because someone is a member of a private group, they should be treated the same as someone else who might have posted something bad in that private group?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: DuBois on October 27, 2011, 04:53:02 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with. Also, that's not the sole reason for the group. It's about being able to not be "ehell approved" all the time. We swear, we drink, we talk about sex. Now, how welcome is any of that here?

Since I am not a mod and do not know anything more than what has been posted.. I can only guess you (under this nym) were banned for having 2 accounts.  Belonging to a public group that specifically complains about EHell might also have something to do with it.  Throw in a superduper secret group where fellow EHellions were made fun of? Yeah, no sympathy here.  Even if you left the SDSG .. you joined it in the first place.



I did join. I'm not denying it. Not one bit. Nor am I denying this is another account, I outted myself in this thread. But, that's not why the other account was banned. This account wasn't used for anything, not even PMs until today. It wasn't known about until after the banning.

So she banned you perhaps because your name was still on SDSGs forum member list? Or maybe because long ago posts from there were sent to her/Mods? Or maybe because you are a member of the open EHell complaint group? I dunno.

But by using your second account to post here.. you broke another rule.

So just because someone is a member of a private group, they should be treated the same as someone else who might have posted something bad in that private group?

It's called 'cutting away dead wood', and it happens. In most forums. Plus, a mod has already said that if someone feels that they have been banned unfairly, they can contact the Dame.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on October 27, 2011, 04:54:23 PM
I also have to POD Affluebelle.  Since I was never "recruited," I've been wondering if I was one of the ones targeted.

I wasn't recruited either. I just figured they didn't find me interesting enough to consider - or didn't even realize I exist.  :D

Me neither, but I'm not really bothered by it.  I figure either they didn't know how to find me on FBook or they just weren't interested in having me as a part of their group.   I can live with that. :) I'm used to not being one of the popular group but rather a fringe amusement to others. :)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: bansidhe on October 27, 2011, 04:55:23 PM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

If they were deleted. .  How can they provide proof?

Examples, not proof.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 04:56:17 PM

Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

Because they were sent posts from the secret forum? http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 

The Dame posted a few excerpts of PMs too (with permission).  I am guessing just by the nature of the group (to bash EHellions) is falls against the rules. "People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

Also, Tychabrae asks "I'd like to add, if a group exists that contains members of Ehell, how can they be "unwanted visitors"?" Anyone causing trouble for EHell would be an unwelcome visitor in my book.. and aparently in the Dame's as well.

Quote from: Wry Exchange on October 05, 2011, 06:50:09 PM
Hi, I heard you were asking about a chat group or friends group?  Can you tell me a bit about yourself, and the ehell names of 3 or 4 posters you agree with, and 3 or 4 posters you disagree with , a few that you think they're not too stable, and a few you admire.
Regards,
Vicki.

Quote from: Wry Exchange on October 05, 2011, 08:01:16 PM
Well, You have over 3,000 posts.   No one stands out that you agree with, or that you shake your head at?  There is a group, but it's not an etiquette group at all.   We'd just like to get a sense of who you are, and if you'd fit in.

These personal messages you mean?  Seems to me that Wry Exchange was doing exactly what she said she was doing - trying to get a feel for who Scubadog is, she didn't just ask negatives did she?  While 'not too stable' may not be the best choice of words we all know too well that there are posters here with views and opinions way outside the norm who others may consider 'crackpots'.

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: cbcb on October 27, 2011, 04:57:09 PM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

There have been at least two instances that I remember where posts that added to the general fearmongering about the (disproved) link between autism and vaccination were overlooked, but response posts directing people to the many many scientific studies showing no such link and revealing the main claimant as a biased, paid-off liar who deliberately manipulated data and scared 1000s - those were deleted and/or lead to the thread being locked. So yes, there were a few instances where posting the truth over fearmongering was punished.

I'm confident other posters will have some links if they still remain, here is recent thread where a post directing people to scientific information was pulled: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102547.msg2531889

Apparently saying there was a link was not political, but correcting this based on well-conducted, blind, peer-reviewed study was.

I try to stay out of the forum drama here - but I found that decision to remove factual links, yet leave a lot of discussion of what has been shown to be based on willful self-serving lies by a corrupt doctor, lies that have caused harm to many - I find that decision troubling.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: General Jinjur on October 27, 2011, 04:57:43 PM
Something like this has happened at literally every message board I've ever taken part in. The first time, I was shocked and horrified that grown adults would act like that; I got a little less shocked each time it happened after that. Not a positive thing, but it happens so consistently - and despite what tone the moderation takes - that I just have to assume it's human nature.

I'm sorry, that's kind of depressing. But happily, most people aren't like that.

I also have to POD Affluebelle.  Since I was never "recruited," I've been wondering if I was one of the ones targeted.

I'm pretty sure everyone likes you. Why wouldn't they?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 04:57:52 PM
"People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

I don't believe anyone has any issue with those bannings. It's the ones of people who didn't fall into any of those categories that people are taking issue with. Also, that's not the sole reason for the group. It's about being able to not be "ehell approved" all the time. We swear, we drink, we talk about sex. Now, how welcome is any of that here?

Since I am not a mod and do not know anything more than what has been posted.. I can only guess you (under this nym) were banned for having 2 accounts.  Belonging to a public group that specifically complains about EHell might also have something to do with it.  Throw in a superduper secret group where fellow EHellions were made fun of? Yeah, no sympathy here.  Even if you left the SDSG .. you joined it in the first place.



I did join. I'm not denying it. Not one bit. Nor am I denying this is another account, I outted myself in this thread. But, that's not why the other account was banned. This account wasn't used for anything, not even PMs until today. It wasn't known about until after the banning.

So she banned you perhaps because your name was still on SDSGs forum member list? Or maybe because long ago posts from there were sent to her/Mods? Or maybe because you are a member of the open EHell complaint group? I dunno.

But by using your second account to post here.. you broke another rule.

You just made my point. She either banned based on what I do off of her corner of the internet, or because of complaints I made 2 years ago (all of which were polite, and TWO YEARS ago.) None of that makes sense. Either she's over stepping bounds, just deciding she didn't like what I do off this site, or because I'm no longer a regular poster. The reason in the end doesn't matter. I was in the process of removing information I felt was too personal to leave on a forum where my friends who no longer post were being banned for what they're doing off site. I think my concern is valid, and when I requested this, more than once, I got no response. Her site, I don't like it, I leave. I did once before. However, why would I trust information I've got posted in a setting where this kind of behavior is going on? I don't and I don't think I'm unreasonable for it.

So, yeah, today I logged into a lurker account I created a monthish ago and posted. Guess that's the first rule I've broken.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 04:59:05 PM

It seems to me that Lady Pekoe started that thread as a constructive way to help heal Ehell and you use it as an example of someone starting trouble...you have a very different world view than me.

In that thread I took exception to her characterization of the moderators having "teacher's pets" which I still consider to be inflammatory and inaccurate.   
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 27, 2011, 04:59:42 PM
WhiteTigerCub, I'm not sure if your questions are just to stir the pot or are legitimate.

If they are legit, then I suggest you look over the rules again relating to drama from other places being brought here.  Several members of this forum started that group with the express purpose of trying to "clean" up things here.

Anyway, the evidence was there, confessions were made, and it appears that those who were so wrongly accused have been attempting to cause hate and discontent in one way or the other still.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 05:01:49 PM

Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

Because they were sent posts from the secret forum? http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 

The Dame posted a few excerpts of PMs too (with permission).  I am guessing just by the nature of the group (to bash EHellions) is falls against the rules. "People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "Also, Tychabrae asks "I'd like to add, if a group exists that contains members of Ehell, how can they be "unwanted visitors"?" Anyone causing trouble for EHell would be an unwelcome visitor in my book.. and apparently in the Dame's as well.

*bold is mine.

Again a HUGE assumption unless one has proof on the e-hell forum in someway.

Why then, would the line of questioning prior to being admitted into the group be;

Hi, I heard you were asking about a chat group or friends group?  Can you tell me a bit about yourself, and the ehell names of 3 or 4 posters you agree with, and 3 or 4 posters you disagree with , a few that you think they're not too stable, and a few you admire.
Regards,


If it's all innocuous and innocent, with no intent of targeting anyone here, then what difference did it make who I liked and didn't?

FTR, I never joined the group, as it wasn't what I was looking for. 

I started a PM exchange with another member (not Wry Exchange) that seemed to be on the same page I was when it came to the recent changes of the forum.  TBH, I was looking for a forum that was more etiquette driven and less personal.  I also had some issues with the moderation.  I thought maybe she and others were thinking about starting another forum (not secret group) and I was interested in taking a look and taking part if they were. 

It was then that Wry Exchange PM'd me and this is the entire exchange.

Hi, I heard you were asking about a chat group or friends group?  Can you tell me a bit about yourself, and the ehell names of 3 or 4 posters you agree with, and 3 or 4 posters you disagree with , a few that you think they're not too stable, and a few you admire.
Regards,

(name removed)


Hi,

I was actually asking if there were any thoughts about starting a different or new forum.  I, like others, am really starting to wonder about the strange moderation as of late.

As for the questions about other forum members, to be honest, I'm not that invested in the site that I can say I have any favorites, or thoughts on the instability of any of them.

I was just hoping to find a forum that was about real etiquette issues, kind of like how this one used to be! ;)



Well, You have over 3,000 posts.   No one stands out that you agree with, or that you shake your head at?  There is a group, but it's not an etiquette group at all.   We'd just like to get a sense of who you are, and if you'd fit in.

(name & facebook address removed)  if you'd like to friend me and check me out.

Ah, I see.  I wasn't really thinking along those lines - the group thing. 

I was just wondering if anyone was thinking about starting another etiquette forum because this one has just become so strange and not really focused on etiquette. 

But, let's see, one of my favorite posters was Betty Draper, but she has been banned, I think.  I find Juana hilarious and I like her bluntness, same with LadyPekoe.  MrsJWine is, IMO, one of the most intelligent and thoughtful posters on the board, she just has a brilliant way of laying things down.

As for who I dislike, well, pretty much anyone who posts the same problem over and over and only wants certain advice (or validation). 

People who use the board as some sort of therapy session. 

People who use fake etiquette situations to promote their personal/political or religious/anti-religion agendas. 

Mostly though, people who seem to want to tell everyone else how they can, or cannot reply, post or opine.  It's starting to get pretty annoying.

Again though, I was just wondering about a new forum and was just putting out some feelers to tnpenguinbaby, to see if she knew anything.  (she is another one of my favorites)

If your group ever opens a forum/message board about etiquette, I'd love to have another place to discuss etiquette in that medium. 


And, that was it.

I was just going to leave it alone until I started really noticing that there were certain people here who seemed to have targets on their backs (for no apparent reason) and the same people were always targeting them.  It was lame and IMO, it was causing a quick deterioration of the forum.  That's why I forwarded the PM's to EHD.  I felt like she should know. 

All that said.  It seems like there were members of the stupid secret club who have been "outing" them for awhile now.  So I suppose it wasn't all that secret anyway.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rose red on October 27, 2011, 05:04:48 PM
You just made my point. She either banned based on what I do off of her corner of the internet, or because of complaints I made 2 years ago (all of which were polite, and TWO YEARS ago.) None of that makes sense. Either she's over stepping bounds, just deciding she didn't like what I do off this site, or because I'm no longer a regular poster. The reason in the end doesn't matter. I was in the process of removing information I felt was too personal to leave on a forum where my friends who no longer post were being banned for what they're doing off site. I think my concern is valid, and when I requested this, more than once, I got no response. Her site, I don't like it, I leave. I did once before. However, why would I trust information I've got posted in a setting where this kind of behavior is going on? I don't and I don't think I'm unreasonable for it.

So, yeah, today I logged into a lurker account I created a monthish ago and posted. Guess that's the first rule I've broken.

You've said basically the same thing in all your posts today.  You clearly hate Ehell and have lost respect of the mods.  You've told your story and made your opinions clear.  I don't understand why you are still here if you hate it so much.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 05:06:51 PM


So she banned you perhaps because your name was still on SDSGs forum member list? Or maybe because long ago posts from there were sent to her/Mods? Or maybe because you are a member of the open EHell complaint group? I dunno.

But by using your second account to post here.. you broke another rule.

So just because someone is a member of a private group, they should be treated the same as someone else who might have posted something bad in that private group?

If you are a member of a club that posts stuff against the ToS of this forum.. then, yes.  By being a member you are saying you agree with everything posted there.  Even if you don't.  You become guilty by association.

But not being the Dame nor a Mod.. I can't say any which way why Trishlovesdolphins aka lilgremlin was banned. 



Under the forum rules which we all had to click "agreed" to be registered here " 2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. "


If the group is private, how would the mods know who posted and or created problems for e-hell. Is everyone belonging to the group being treated as though they are spewing hatred on FB? Which again is a HUGE assumption here.

Because they were sent posts from the secret forum? http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 

The Dame posted a few excerpts of PMs too (with permission).  I am guessing just by the nature of the group (to bash EHellions) is falls against the rules. "People got banned for a variety of reasons...most notably if they did anything that aided, abetted, facilitated, condoned or directly participated in a group whose whole sole raison d'tre was to cyberbully, humiliate and harass people on Ehell the group deemed were "annoying". "

Also, Tychabrae asks "I'd like to add, if a group exists that contains members of Ehell, how can they be "unwanted visitors"?" Anyone causing trouble for EHell would be an unwelcome visitor in my book.. and aparently in the Dame's as well.

Quote from: Wry Exchange on October 05, 2011, 06:50:09 PM
Hi, I heard you were asking about a chat group or friends group?  Can you tell me a bit about yourself, and the ehell names of 3 or 4 posters you agree with, and 3 or 4 posters you disagree with , a few that you think they're not too stable, and a few you admire.
Regards,
Vicki.

Quote from: Wry Exchange on October 05, 2011, 08:01:16 PM
Well, You have over 3,000 posts.   No one stands out that you agree with, or that you shake your head at?  There is a group, but it's not an etiquette group at all.   We'd just like to get a sense of who you are, and if you'd fit in.

These personal messages you mean?  Seems to me that Wry Exchange was doing exactly what she said she was doing - trying to get a feel for who Scubadog is, she didn't just ask negatives did she?  While 'not too stable' may not be the best choice of words we all know too well that there are posters here with views and opinions way outside the norm who others may consider 'crackpots'.

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

I was actually referring to where the Dame mentions threads on the SDSG..6th paragraph down. I doubt she would have said anything about them if she hadn't had a chance to read them herself.

And Trish.. maybe she did housecleaning and auto-banned unused accounts? I have one forum I visit that I must check in (read, don't need to post) at least once every few months or the clean-bot sweeps out old members (to save server space).

But the Dame can ban anyone she likes for any reason.  Her forum, her rules.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: cass2591 on October 27, 2011, 05:08:43 PM
FTR, BettyDraper is not banned. She was gagged about a year ago, maybe for 3 days, and chose not to come back, I guess. I don't know. Not everyone who leaves here does so because they're banned. Some just move on
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 05:09:11 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.

So it's ok for the mods to make statements like these about members of the forum?

Actually, I singled nobody out on this one.  Also, there were some mod reports that were very hate-filled and it made me step back and wonder why they were here at all.  Unless you are one of the people that has made a hate-filled moderation report, there is no reason to worry.  I'm sorry if you think this is being harsh but Bookworm 317 is just a drop in the ocean of some of the nasty things we have seen and I stand behind my statement 100% that if you act like this on a forum, it doesn't make me think it's a stretch to think you are like that (to some degree) in real life.

So what if you didn't single someone out, it's still an unsettling attitude to see expressed bya Mod of an Etiquette forum.

I don't what's going into War_Doc's PMs but I've gotten a few that I would describe as "frothing like a rabid dog".   The level of vitriol and profound rage is quite something to behold.  I almost feel like Margaret Mead studying an alien culture.  One wonders what strange powers Ehell has to keep people here who clearly hate it with a passion and have for a long, long time.  Walk away.  Go...live life!  Smell the lovely fall smells! 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 05:09:19 PM
You just made my point. She either banned based on what I do off of her corner of the internet, or because of complaints I made 2 years ago (all of which were polite, and TWO YEARS ago.) None of that makes sense. Either she's over stepping bounds, just deciding she didn't like what I do off this site, or because I'm no longer a regular poster. The reason in the end doesn't matter. I was in the process of removing information I felt was too personal to leave on a forum where my friends who no longer post were being banned for what they're doing off site. I think my concern is valid, and when I requested this, more than once, I got no response. Her site, I don't like it, I leave. I did once before. However, why would I trust information I've got posted in a setting where this kind of behavior is going on? I don't and I don't think I'm unreasonable for it.

So, yeah, today I logged into a lurker account I created a monthish ago and posted. Guess that's the first rule I've broken.

You've said basically the same thing in all your posts today.  You clearly hate Ehell and have lost respect of the mods.  You've told your story and made your opinions clear.  I don't understand why you are still here if you hate it so much.

HATE? Really? Thought out responses that aren't full of attacks show I HATE a website? I'm indifferent. As for not understanding, maybe a re-read would be helpful for you. All I want is to have my information removed. Emails have gone unanswered. I was doing it myself. Ignoring everything going on. Banned for no reason. Seriously, not even a canned one.

For the record, when I HATE something, it's obvious. If I "hated" the website, I wouldn't be posting thought out responses.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: bansidhe on October 27, 2011, 05:12:09 PM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

There have been at least two instances that I remember where posts that added to the general fearmongering about the (disproved) link between autism and vaccination were overlooked, but response posts directing people to the many many scientific studies showing no such link and revealing the main claimant as a biased, paid-off liar who deliberately manipulated data and scared 1000s - those were deleted and/or lead to the thread being locked. So yes, there were a few instances where posting the truth over fearmongering was punished.

I'm confident other posters will have some links if they still remain, here is recent thread where a post directing people to scientific information was pulled: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102547.msg2531889

Apparently saying there was a link was not political, but correcting this based on well-conducted, blind, peer-reviewed study was.

I try to stay out of the forum drama here - but I found that decision to remove factual links, yet leave a lot of discussion of what has been shown to be based on willful self-serving lies by a corrupt doctor, lies that have caused harm to many - I find that decision troubling.

Thanks - that's the kind of thing I was looking for. I'll peruse that.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 05:13:15 PM
In the interest of full disclosure, there was also this.

Sorry if i sound like a paranoid nut.  I'm perfectly normal, and wanted to ensure you are as well.

With my reply


Lol!  I don't blame you!  Please don't worry about that.  I was looking more for another message board that discusses etiquette as opposed to a private group but I would never mention to anyone that there is one.  No worries about that.

At that time, I didn't have any intention of bringing it up to a MOD. 

It began to weigh on me when I could see that this SSG *was* in fact spilling into the forum and people who had no idea why, were being targeted- and hurt.

It was like middle school and made me just  ::) ::) ::) ::)  So, yeah, I ended up mentioning it. 

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 05:13:25 PM
And Trish.. maybe she did housecleaning and auto-banned unused accounts? I have one forum I visit that I must check in (read, don't need to post) at least once every few months or the clean-bot sweeps out old members (to save server space).

But the Dame can ban anyone she likes for any reason.  Her forum, her rules.

Unlikely, as I did log in to send a PM to another poster that I saw lurking who I thought I might have some good advice for, and I posted in a funeral thread because when I was lurking I saw something I wanted to post.

I am not disputing her forum, her rules. All I asked was to have my profile info deleted and at least to have my screen name changed to something different, hell, her choice as long as it's no longer something with my name in it. That's it. Really. I'm banned. Not the end of the world. It's the internet for cryin' out loud.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: HushHush on October 27, 2011, 05:16:01 PM
CakeBeret, rashea clarified the pron thing earlier in the thread—it's not about writing it, it's about bringing it to the forum.

I'm sad to hear about all of the drama that has been brought to the forum. :( It's just so distressing to know that people felt this way about EHell...

How does rashea know that's what the Dame meant?  She gave her interpretation of the statement but I haven't seen the Dame agree with it.

You also haven't seen me disagree with it, have you?  Why? Because it's accurate.  Why are you seeing offense where none was intended?

I'm not sure where I gave the impression that offense was had.  I was just asking how Rashea was able to speak for you.  Another poster made other points about other statements you've made and I let the whole thing go.  I didn't realize my post was offensive to you.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 05:18:04 PM
As a favor, LadyPekoe, asked me to post this for her since she was also banned:


Some people have asked why people would continue to visit a place they hate. Well, I can tell you I didn't hate EH. Why complain about being banned? Because we are sad. I loved EH. LOVED it. Probably too much and it was taking too much time. I was considering quitting the website but I've enjoyed it so much that I decided something else could go.

This disaster happened yesterday, while I was out with my hubby for the day for my birthday. I got home too it. I was shocked. I'll admit to sending the Dame a somewhat snarky message but it was certainly not vulgar or anything.

I found my own banning interesting. I'm sure I got on the radar for the "Teacher's Pet" thread but it was made with the best of intentions. I thought it yielded positive results.

I honestly like some of the posters that other people may not. Siotehcat, for example (sorry to bring you in, Sio!). I have never bullied anyone online or IRL. I liked the FB forum for all the non-EH talk--because, frankly, sometimes I need to talk to someone I don't know IRL about major issues in my life that may butt into legal or medical territory.

Will I get on my knees and beg to get back in? No way. I need to finish my dissertation, I really need to move on with my life. But will I be incredibly sad that EH won't be there for me when I'm done? Yes.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TychaBrahe on October 27, 2011, 05:19:16 PM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

I had a post deleted that contained scientifically relevant facts.  I'd prefer not to discuss the topic publicly, for fear of having it deleted again. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Wordgeek on October 27, 2011, 05:22:00 PM
Add me to the list of people who don't get it.  If the forum isn't to your liking, go elsewhere.  Find a different forum or start your own.  Why get so emotionally invested? Why start a witch hunt?  Just go.

No place can be everything to all people.  If Ehell doesn't suit you, find a place that does.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 05:23:00 PM

It seems to me that Lady Pekoe started that thread as a constructive way to help heal Ehell and you use it as an example of someone starting trouble...you have a very different world view than me.

In that thread I took exception to her characterization of the moderators having "teacher's pets" which I still consider to be inflammatory and inaccurate.

Fair enough, but Rashea used it as an example of  'if someone starts a thread specifically to create drama and trouble on this forum.' my take on that thread was you approved of Lady Pekoe's general intention to report troublesome posts so I don;t see it as a reasonable example.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SiotehCat on October 27, 2011, 05:23:51 PM
I am pretty sure that my invite has just been lost in the mail.

Just kidding, obviously.

When this started, it was upsetting. Now, not so much. I don't like being targeted and dogpiled in all of my threads or threads that I have participated in. I don't like all of my threads getting locked because the same posters get snarky and make personal attacks. And honestly, I was getting tired of Cass always having to come to my rescue. She was starting to look like superman to me.

I love Ehell. Its the only forum that I go to now. Even on days that I don't comment, I am reading all of the threads. I have learned so much from this site. Posters that are hateful and nasty have no place here and I think the site will come out of this better than before.

Also, the number of people that have been nasty to me cannot compare to the number of people that have offered me support and kind words.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: i am le tired on October 27, 2011, 05:24:18 PM

It seems to me that Lady Pekoe started that thread as a constructive way to help heal Ehell and you use it as an example of someone starting trouble...you have a very different world view than me.

In that thread I took exception to her characterization of the moderators having "teacher's pets" which I still consider to be inflammatory and inaccurate.

Didn't she back off that characterization in the thread? Isn't forgiveness good manners as well?

I knew nothing of the facebook group or the problems or whathaveyou until they were posted here, and as someone without any skin in this fight, neither side is looking particularly pretty today. Unlike a previous poster's assertion, I've never seen this happen quite like this in another forum. As far as I can recall, this is the second time it's happened to this forum. There comes a point in every relationship (even if it's a relationship between moderators and posters) where both sides need to look in the mirror to see where the problems lie. I see a lot of posters re-evaluating (I, for one, had no idea that part of the terms of being here is that I should be actively reporting problems when they first appear to moderators as that is not the standard in other forums, and it is impacting my decision to stay or go). However, I don't see a lot of re-evaluating on the side of the mods, or from you, as the owner. That's your choice. But I can't say I'll be surprised if it leads to the same results again, since it seems to have before.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Chickadee on October 27, 2011, 05:27:58 PM
So just because someone is a member of a private group, they should be treated the same as someone else who might have posted something bad in that private group?
[/quote]

I trimmed the quote tree a  bit.

When I was a teenager my parents used to tell me that I was known by the company that I keep.

So yes, if you are part of a group that is dedicated to bashing one particular forum and certain members of that forum, then you should expect to be treated in the same manner as the worst members of that group.

After all, you chose to be a part of that group.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SamiHami on October 27, 2011, 05:28:45 PM
And Trish.. maybe she did housecleaning and auto-banned unused accounts? I have one forum I visit that I must check in (read, don't need to post) at least once every few months or the clean-bot sweeps out old members (to save server space).

But the Dame can ban anyone she likes for any reason.  Her forum, her rules.

Unlikely, as I did log in to send a PM to another poster that I saw lurking who I thought I might have some good advice for, and I posted in a funeral thread because when I was lurking I saw something I wanted to post.

I am not disputing her forum, her rules. All I asked was to have my profile info deleted and at least to have my screen name changed to something different, hell, her choice as long as it's no longer something with my name in it. That's it. Really. I'm banned. Not the end of the world. It's the internet for cryin' out loud.

You make no sense at all. You have been quite strident about declaring how you don't care that you've been banned...yet you create another username so you can post and stir things up here? You say it's not the end of the world, but you sure are acting like it is. If you really didn't care you would drop it, go away and find forums more suitable for you to post in.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 05:31:08 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MerryCat on October 27, 2011, 05:31:46 PM
Well, I had a huge, long post typed out, but honestly I felt like it would just add fuel to the fire. The upshot of it is, I'm sad. Sad that a forum I love, filled with people I respect, has turned out to be full of such hurtful secrets.

But I'm also hopeful that now, with everything out in the open, things will get better and we can go back to the civility we enjoyed before this whole cycle of snark started.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 05:32:02 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.

So it's ok for the mods to make statements like these about members of the forum?

Actually, I singled nobody out on this one.  Also, there were some mod reports that were very hate-filled and it made me step back and wonder why they were here at all.  Unless you are one of the people that has made a hate-filled moderation report, there is no reason to worry.  I'm sorry if you think this is being harsh but Bookworm 317 is just a drop in the ocean of some of the nasty things we have seen and I stand behind my statement 100% that if you act like this on a forum, it doesn't make me think it's a stretch to think you are like that (to some degree) in real life.

So what if you didn't single someone out, it's still an unsettling attitude to see expressed bya Mod of an Etiquette forum.

I don't what's going into War_Doc's PMs but I've gotten a few that I would describe as "frothing like a rabid dog".   The level of vitriol and profound rage is quite something to behold.  I almost feel like Margaret Mead studying an alien culture.  One wonders what strange powers Ehell has to keep people here who clearly hate it with a passion and have for a long, long time.  Walk away.  Go...live life!  Smell the lovely fall smells!

How on earth does taking exception to a mod saying 'hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.' mean that I hate it here? 

I said I wouldn't expect to see that sort of opinion expressed here and especially not from a mod.  I'm objecting to an offensive remark on an Etiquette site, not the site itself, and to the fact Wardoc apparently thinks it's ok to say something that revolting because he 'didn't single anyone out'.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 05:33:57 PM
And Trish.. maybe she did housecleaning and auto-banned unused accounts? I have one forum I visit that I must check in (read, don't need to post) at least once every few months or the clean-bot sweeps out old members (to save server space).

But the Dame can ban anyone she likes for any reason.  Her forum, her rules.

Unlikely, as I did log in to send a PM to another poster that I saw lurking who I thought I might have some good advice for, and I posted in a funeral thread because when I was lurking I saw something I wanted to post.

I am not disputing her forum, her rules. All I asked was to have my profile info deleted and at least to have my screen name changed to something different, hell, her choice as long as it's no longer something with my name in it. That's it. Really. I'm banned. Not the end of the world. It's the internet for cryin' out loud.

You make no sense at all. You have been quite strident about declaring how you don't care that you've been banned...yet you create another username so you can post and stir things up here? You say it's not the end of the world, but you sure are acting like it is. If you really didn't care you would drop it, go away and find forums more suitable for you to post in.

I'm not stirring anything up. This acct was created solely for lurking. When I logged in to PM someone noticed and emailed me. Since I didn't want to give the impression I was posting anymore I created this account. I'm not stirring anything. I've been quite clear. All I want is for my identifying info removed. That means profile and posts that are too identifying. I'd settle for a change of screen name. I don't know how any of that translates into hate or stirring of anything.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Amalthea on October 27, 2011, 05:35:03 PM
Oh goodness, this is a mess.  I think a little more of my faith in humanity is gone now. :-\
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TychaBrahe on October 27, 2011, 05:35:04 PM
Add me to the list of people who don't get it.  If the forum isn't to your liking, go elsewhere.  Find a different forum or start your own.  Why get so emotionally invested? Why start a witch hunt?  Just go.

No place can be everything to all people.  If Ehell doesn't suit you, find a place that does.

Because a forum isn't a single thing.  It's many different things all rolled into one.  It's the people and their personalities and the discussions you share in PM.  It's the friends you make and the people who inspire you and console you and cheer you on.  So much of that happens away from the influence of the mods or the owner, or even the stated purpose of the forum.

The most posted in board on this forum is the Life in General etiquette folder.  The second most posted is the Coffee Break folder.  Of the top ten sections, five have nothing to do with etiquette.  It's just people, being honest and silly and helpful and friendly.

If you're in a boat, and the boat is being driven by a current toward some rocks, you have two choices.  You can abandon ship, or you can try to turn the boat.  I suppose which one you decide to do depends on how much you love the boat, how much you can afford to just abandon your cargo, and how bad the current is.

I guess some people thought they could save the boat.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Betelnut on October 27, 2011, 05:35:46 PM
Well, I had a huge, long post typed out, but honestly I felt like it would just add fuel to the fire. The upshot of it is, I'm sad. Sad that a forum I love, filled with people I respect, has turned out to be full of such hurtful secrets.

But I'm also hopeful that now, with everything out in the open, things will get better and we can go back to the civility we enjoyed before this whole cycle of snark started.

That is how I feel too.  I must be the exception too because I rarely remember who is who and I rarely care.  I just want interesting conversation and situations discussed intelligently.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Two Ravens on October 27, 2011, 05:37:19 PM
Add me to the list of people who don't get it.  If the forum isn't to your liking, go elsewhere.  Find a different forum or start your own.  Why get so emotionally invested? Why start a witch hunt?  Just go.

No place can be everything to all people.  If Ehell doesn't suit you, find a place that does.

Because a forum isn't a single thing.  It's many different things all rolled into one.  It's the people and their personalities and the discussions you share in PM.  It's the friends you make and the people who inspire you and console you and cheer you on.  So much of that happens away from the influence of the mods or the owner, or even the stated purpose of the forum.

The most posted in board on this forum is the Life in General etiquette folder.  The second most posted is the Coffee Break folder.  Of the top ten sections, five have nothing to do with etiquette.  It's just people, being honest and silly and helpful and friendly.

If you're in a boat, and the boat is being driven by a current toward some rocks, you have two choices.  You can abandon ship, or you can try to turn the boat.  I suppose which one you decide to do depends on how much you love the boat, how much you can afford to just abandon your cargo, and how bad the current is.

I guess some people thought they could save the boat.

Save the boat by bad-mouthing other people?  Or throwing them overboard?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 05:37:57 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 05:39:17 PM
I will, in the interest of clarification, say that Rainhadotexugo did contact me to clarify what happened with the duplicate account.  Schmoopie created the account for herself but the IP address that showed up is one that Rain has used as well when at Schmoopie's house.   A very plausible explanation and certainly worthy of re-examining lifting the ban.

But unfortunately Rain didn't wait to hear from me and proceeded to splat the news of her ban to friends who promptly repeated the news as well as post herself about it on the openly.   My reply to her was to express regret that she did not wait to quietly work this out with me so that no one was the wiser, including mods, but instead choose indiscretion to create more public drama.  I'm tired of the drama so the ban stays. 

People, if you've been gagged or banned and you think it was unfair, contact me privately.  I won't lift a finger to help you if you go traipsing around announcing you've been banned.  Discretion is your friend.  Embrace it. Enjoy it.  It can save you boatloads of heartache and embarrassment. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 05:39:34 PM
Add me to the list of people who don't get it.  If the forum isn't to your liking, go elsewhere.  Find a different forum or start your own.  Why get so emotionally invested? Why start a witch hunt?  Just go.

No place can be everything to all people.  If Ehell doesn't suit you, find a place that does.

Because a forum isn't a single thing.  It's many different things all rolled into one.  It's the people and their personalities and the discussions you share in PM.  It's the friends you make and the people who inspire you and console you and cheer you on.  So much of that happens away from the influence of the mods or the owner, or even the stated purpose of the forum.

The most posted in board on this forum is the Life in General etiquette folder.  The second most posted is the Coffee Break folder.  Of the top ten sections, five have nothing to do with etiquette.  It's just people, being honest and silly and helpful and friendly.

If you're in a boat, and the boat is being driven by a current toward some rocks, you have two choices.  You can abandon ship, or you can try to turn the boat.  I suppose which one you decide to do depends on how much you love the boat, how much you can afford to just abandon your cargo, and how bad the current is.

I guess some people thought they could save the boat.

unfortunately, those people didn't own the boat.  and according to the laws of the high seas, trying to wrest control of the ship from it's lawful captain is considered mutiny.  unless said lawful captain is mentally or physically unable to steer the ship.

also, it was through the actions of those people that the boat was drifting the wrong way.  they were poking holes in the hull.

you might want to chose another analogy.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: yokozbornak on October 27, 2011, 05:42:59 PM
Add me to the list of people who don't get it.  If the forum isn't to your liking, go elsewhere.  Find a different forum or start your own.  Why get so emotionally invested? Why start a witch hunt?  Just go.

No place can be everything to all people.  If Ehell doesn't suit you, find a place that does.

Because a forum isn't a single thing.  It's many different things all rolled into one.  It's the people and their personalities and the discussions you share in PM.  It's the friends you make and the people who inspire you and console you and cheer you on.  So much of that happens away from the influence of the mods or the owner, or even the stated purpose of the forum.

The most posted in board on this forum is the Life in General etiquette folder.  The second most posted is the Coffee Break folder.  Of the top ten sections, five have nothing to do with etiquette.  It's just people, being honest and silly and helpful and friendly.

If you're in a boat, and the boat is being driven by a current toward some rocks, you have two choices.  You can abandon ship, or you can try to turn the boat.  I suppose which one you decide to do depends on how much you love the boat, how much you can afford to just abandon your cargo, and how bad the current is.

I guess some people thought they could save the boat.

unfortunately, those people didn't own the boat.  and according to the laws of the high seas, trying to wrest control of the ship from it's lawful captain is considered mutiny.  unless said lawful captain is mentally or physically unable to steer the ship.
also, it was through the actions of those people that the boat was drifting the wrong way.  they were poking holes in the hull.

you might want to chose another analogy.

If this were an 80s movie, I would be starting a slow clap.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 05:43:58 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 05:49:18 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

for what it's worth, Scuba Dog, i would have reported those pm's as well.  just asking me who i thought was unstable would have been all the head's up that i needed that this was not a group i would wish to be involved with.  i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shoo on October 27, 2011, 05:49:35 PM

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.


And I tend to agree with you.  I suspect those questions were intended to screen out posters who might not want to join a group where its members make fun of and plot to harass other people.  What fun would it be to have people join your group if they're actually NICE and don't enjoy insulting other people?

But what do I know?  I wasn't invited.  For all I know, I'm one of the ones they wanted the freedom to make fun of openly (a badge of honor I would wear proudly, to be honest).
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Miss March on October 27, 2011, 05:50:41 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 05:51:38 PM
I am pretty sure that my invite has just been lost in the mail.

Just kidding, obviously.

When this started, it was upsetting. Now, not so much. I don't like being targeted and dogpiled in all of my threads or threads that I have participated in. I don't like all of my threads getting locked because the same posters get snarky and make personal attacks. And honestly, I was getting tired of Cass always having to come to my rescue. She was starting to look like superman to me.

I love Ehell. Its the only forum that I go to now. Even on days that I don't comment, I am reading all of the threads. I have learned so much from this site. Posters that are hateful and nasty have no place here and I think the site will come out of this better than before.

Also, the number of people that have been nasty to me cannot compare to the number of people that have offered me support and kind words.

SiotehCat, let me just say that although I hardly ever agree with your opinions that doesn't stop me respecting them and admiring you for having them.  I firmly believe that there are more people out there who are supporting you/respecting (even if they do it silently) than there are people loathing you/dogpiling on you.

POD. It takes a lot of guts to stand by your beliefs no matter what they are. As a child, I was mocked and accused of being heretical because of my religious beliefs, but I stuck with my beliefs and I've never been happier that I did. Your life is your own, Sio, and you need to live it in the way that will make you happy.

I may disagree with you, but that doesn't mean I can't learn from you and discuss etiquette with you. Part of life is about interacting with people you don't share every belief with - from differences on what color shoes should be worn to how familial rel@tionships should be conducted - and learning from the other person.

I'd like to think the people at Ehell can get along despite difference in beliefs.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shoo on October 27, 2011, 05:52:37 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ceallach on October 27, 2011, 05:52:49 PM
Hypothetical etiquette question:    A group of people at a party are causing trouble.  The host asks them to leave.  This includes both the main trouble-makers and also the people who were hanging out with them and laughing along with their bad behaviour.  (Basically, host just kicks out the group who were causing trouble.)

Should they:

(A) Immediately come back to the house and start a loud argument in front of all of the other guests accusing the host of being unfair and unreasonable.

(B) Leave politely and quietly, and approach their host privately at a later time to discuss any concerns, apologise if appropriate, and perhaps be welcomed back into their host's home in the future.


Edited to add:  Oops, I forgot Option C!  Which is:  Leave as requested, but phone the host and leave abusive messages on host's voicemail, almost certainly guaranteeing that they will never receive a future invitation.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 05:54:02 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

So asking you who you admired was just a cover question?  I suspect it fits in the 'we all know posters here who are whackaloons', maybe your whackaloon could be a member of the group.  You'd be more likely to join if the posters you agree with and admire are there and less likely if the group's made up of the ones you disagree with and think are 'unstable'.  I just don't see the menace that you do.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: PurpleyBlue on October 27, 2011, 05:54:58 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Agreed.  And I aslo agree with Scuba_Dog's assessment of the questions asked of her.  To me, they did not say, "Do we have things in common to chat about?"  Instead, it comes off as "Are you willing to bash other posters with us?"

ETA:  I do want to say, in the sake of fairness, that the questions posed to Scuba_Dog were from one member of the group.  Who knows if it is indicative of the mindset of the entire group.  One person does not necessarily represent the whole.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 05:55:21 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: RingTailedLemur on October 27, 2011, 05:56:15 PM
I didn't know anything about this until the Dame posted in the "sensei" thread (and I feel stupid for believing the OP was true).

I had noticed things were going downhill, but I am astounded that there is a secret group that makes fun of members.  The idea that other members might be analysing my posts to see if I am "unstable" enough to mock makes me feel rather sick.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SiotehCat on October 27, 2011, 05:56:45 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

They have been banned from ehell, but not from the internet.

I know I deleted people in facebook and changed my privacy settings because of this.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shoo on October 27, 2011, 05:57:18 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 05:58:20 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!

only two so far today, in this very thread.  but the night is young yet.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 06:00:17 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

So asking you who you admired was just a cover question?  I suspect it fits in the 'we all know posters here who are whackaloons', maybe your whackaloon could be a member of the group.  You'd be more likely to join if the posters you agree with and admire are there and less likely if the group's made up of the ones you disagree with and think are 'unstable'.  I just don't see the menace that you do.

I'm not sure if it was a cover question or not.  I didn't have trouble answering that question.  It was the other questions that concerned me.  I'm of one feeling about them, you are of another.

I wonder if you would mind being upfront and honest and telling us if you are part of that group?  If so, can you tell all of us here that that *was* the reasoning behind that questioning?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 06:02:54 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

So asking you who you admired was just a cover question?  I suspect it fits in the 'we all know posters here who are whackaloons, maybe your whackaloon could be a member of the group.  You'd be more likely to join if the posters you agree with and admire are there and less likely if the group's made up of the ones you disagree with and think are 'unstable.  I just don't see the menace that you do.

Sootikin, I would feel very uncomfortable with people asking me who I thought was mentally ill on Ehell. For one thing, I'm some people's idea of mentally ill, as in I have a mental disorder with which I have suffered for 7 years. For another, that just sounds "off" to me. Would you like someone asking you to tell them which of your acquaintances was mentally ill?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:03:06 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Agreed.  And I aslo agree with Scuba_Dog's assessment of the questions asked of her.  To me, they did not say, "Do we have things in common to chat about?"  Instead, it comes off as "Are you willing to bash other posters with us?"

ETA:  I do want to say, in the sake of fairness, that the questions posed to Scuba_Dog were from one member of the group.  Who knows if it is indicative of the mindset of the entire group.  One person does not necessarily represent the whole.

Again, the questions were balanced - who do you agree/disagree with, who do you admire/think is unstable.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SamiHami on October 27, 2011, 06:03:19 PM
I didn't know anything about this until the Dame posted in the "sensei" thread (and I feel stupid for believing the OP was true).

I had noticed things were going downhill, but I am astounded that there is a secret group that makes fun of members.  The idea that other members might be analysing my posts to see if I am "unstable" enough to mock makes me feel rather sick.

I agree. I have been wondering that, too. Am I one of the "unstable" ones they make fun of? I hate to think that my posts have been fodder for other people to make fun of behind my back.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:04:57 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!
And that was unneccessarily snarky, you obviously don't want to have a rational debate.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shoo on October 27, 2011, 06:05:29 PM
I didn't know anything about this until the Dame posted in the "sensei" thread (and I feel stupid for believing the OP was true).

I had noticed things were going downhill, but I am astounded that there is a secret group that makes fun of members.  The idea that other members might be analysing my posts to see if I am "unstable" enough to mock makes me feel rather sick.

I agree. I have been wondering that, too. Am I one of the "unstable" ones they make fun of? I hate to think that my posts have been fodder for other people to make fun of behind my back.

Consider the source, and don't worry about it.  That's the best advice I can give regarding this.  But I completely understand where you're coming from. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Two Ravens on October 27, 2011, 06:05:42 PM
I didn't know anything about this until the Dame posted in the "sensei" thread (and I feel stupid for believing the OP was true).

I had noticed things were going downhill, but I am astounded that there is a secret group that makes fun of members.  The idea that other members might be analysing my posts to see if I am "unstable" enough to mock makes me feel rather sick.

Me too (about feeling stupid).  Though I do think that my cynical nature was vindicated, since as I was reading the thread, I wondered if they were making fun of other members in the Facebook group...
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 06:07:43 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!
And that was unneccessarily snarky, you obviously don't want to have a rational debate.

and accusing people who may have had their personal information compromised, through FB, of fear mongering, wasn't snarky.  i begin to believe that Scuba Dog has a very good point.  you were either a member of the group, or a friend of someone who was banned.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:08:51 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

So asking you who you admired was just a cover question?  I suspect it fits in the 'we all know posters here who are whackaloons', maybe your whackaloon could be a member of the group.  You'd be more likely to join if the posters you agree with and admire are there and less likely if the group's made up of the ones you disagree with and think are 'unstable'.  I just don't see the menace that you do.

I'm not sure if it was a cover question or not.  I didn't have trouble answering that question.  It was the other questions that concerned me.  I'm of one feeling about them, you are of another.

I wonder if you would mind being upfront and honest and telling us if you are part of that group?  If so, can you tell all of us here that that *was* the reasoning behind that questioning?

No I'm not, I've never been part of a group set up to solely to bully and troll other ehell members.  Also, I'm not Wry Exchange, nor did she consult me before she spoke to you, I don't know her reasoning, I'm offering my own.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:10:51 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

So asking you who you admired was just a cover question?  I suspect it fits in the 'we all know posters here who are whackaloons, maybe your whackaloon could be a member of the group.  You'd be more likely to join if the posters you agree with and admire are there and less likely if the group's made up of the ones you disagree with and think are 'unstable.  I just don't see the menace that you do.

Sootikin, I would feel very uncomfortable with people asking me who I thought was mentally ill on Ehell. For one thing, I'm some people's idea of mentally ill, as in I have a mental disorder with which I have suffered for 7 years. For another, that just sounds "off" to me. Would you like someone asking you to tell them which of your acquaintances was mentally ill?

You read 'unstable' as mentally ill, I read it as 'whackaloon', having read Wry's posts over the years I doubt she was looking for a medical diagnosis from Scubadog.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: silvercelt on October 27, 2011, 06:11:02 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!
And that was unneccessarily snarky, you obviously don't want to have a rational debate.

Your statement about fear mongering was also very unneccessarily snarky.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: hobish on October 27, 2011, 06:13:16 PM

I have been admonished, too. And yeah, wow, very embarrassing   <-- ETA – not sarcasm. It is embarrassing.

I only got a mod warning once, but I think that must say more about the tolerance of everyone else, than my tact or wisdom in posting when I have the bit between my teeth. Yes, it's very embarrassing.

Twik, you and i have disagreed often, and sometimes passionately. You are hands down one of my favorite people to disagree with (heh :)) You argue logically and well, and politely - if edgy sometimes - even when it is a hot topic. I honestly think i have learned a bit from you on how to not let emotions fly and make things personal when they don't need to be.
So there!  :)

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on October 27, 2011, 06:13:25 PM
I think we all need to be careful not to make harsh judgements about an entire group of people because a handful of members from the group have been banned.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!
And that was unneccessarily snarky, you obviously don't want to have a rational debate.

and accusing people who may have had their personal information compromised, through FB, of fear mongering, wasn't snarky.  i begin to believe that Scuba Dog has a very good point.  you were either a member of the group, or a friend of someone who was banned.

I didn't accuse people who may have had their personal information compromised, through FB of fear mongering, I accused Shoo, because that's exactly what she was doing, you really believe people like Shmoopie, Lady Pekoe et al would stoop so low? I don't,  and yes I'm friends with them both.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 06:14:22 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

You are all very kind.  However, I'm certain that anyone of you (and many others) would have done the same thing.  The goal in sending EHD the PM's was to hopefully shed some light on the recent turn on the forum. 

The reason I told her that it was fine to post my PM's was because people were falsely accusing the MOD's of getting into people's personal messages.  They didn't do that.  I forwarded them to her. 

As for being targeted..   ::)  Good grief.  I guess if they did that, it would only serve to prove that everyone's suspicions about them were correct.

There are people on this forum who know me personally, they know my name, my email address (heck, one of them even knows my full name & home address!) Shrug. 

They have bigger problems with several of their OWN members outing them (still).

(Thanks for the kind words, though.   :) )

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:15:14 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!
And that was unneccessarily snarky, you obviously don't want to have a rational debate.

Your statement about fear mongering was also very unneccessarily snarky.
I disagree see my previous post.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SiotehCat on October 27, 2011, 06:17:34 PM
Sootikin, are you a member of the secret facebook group?

I am not asking if you are a member of a group soley created to bully and troll people, I am just asking if you are a member of the secret facebook group.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: silvercelt on October 27, 2011, 06:17:56 PM
Quote
i think you're being incredibly brave to allow the Dame to use your pm's here, and to answer questions.
(referencing ScubaDog)

POD.

Yes, she is, I agree.  Especially since she runs the extremely high risk of those posters targeting her and attempting to make her online life hell for coming forward.  But hey, that's what they do. Scuba_dog is an upstanding kinda gal, and I know she can take it.  :) 

What WE can all do is *not* sit by and watch it happen (if it does).

Oh stop fear mongering, they've been banned.

And no one who has been banned has ever come back to the forum to cause trouble?

Fear mongering, that's funny!
And that was unneccessarily snarky, you obviously don't want to have a rational debate.

Your statement about fear mongering was also very unneccessarily snarky.
I disagree see my previous post.

That's fine.  I stick to my opinion.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:19:19 PM
Sootikin, are you a member of the secret facebook group?

I am not asking if you are a member of a group soley created to bully and troll people, I am just asking if you are a member of the secret facebook group.

I have already stated I am not a member of the group the Dame is referring to.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: rose red on October 27, 2011, 06:20:36 PM
Sootikin, are you a member of the secret facebook group?

I am not asking if you are a member of a group soley created to bully and troll people, I am just asking if you are a member of the secret facebook group.

I'm a member of several secret facebook groups.

She's asking if you are a member of the secret FB group.  You know which one.

eta: It's your right not to answer, but I personally dislike cute answers.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: AlwaysQuizzical on October 27, 2011, 06:21:28 PM
Frankly, I'm sad that there was a group created that revolved around judging some posters above others. I wouldn't have been as saddened if a group splintered off to get into more debate or into more controversial topics, (legal and such). I joined ehell because I'm interested in etiquette and want to learn to approach situations with more personal grace. I'm hoping to become someone who is polite, but doesn't mind when other's aren't. I'm not there yet, but here is where I try to see the other side of people's arguments and apply that to Real Life (like not judging someone's actions because I know from ehell that they could be thinking, x, y, or z)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 06:22:43 PM
**big trim

No I'm not, I've never been part of a group set up to solely to bully and troll other ehell members.  Also, I'm not Wry Exchange, nor did she consult me before she spoke to you, I don't know her reasoning, I'm offering my own.

I never thought you were Wry Exchange....  I was honestly just curious if you were a member of the club because maybe it would help shed some light on that side of things.  You have what I would consider a very charitable view of the questions.

Again, you have your reasoning, I have mine.  We disagree and that's ok. 
I forwarded (not reported) the PM's to EHD because I thought it would shed some light, based on my reasoning.   
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 06:25:08 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

So asking you who you admired was just a cover question?  I suspect it fits in the 'we all know posters here who are whackaloons, maybe your whackaloon could be a member of the group.  You'd be more likely to join if the posters you agree with and admire are there and less likely if the group's made up of the ones you disagree with and think are 'unstable.  I just don't see the menace that you do.

Sootikin, I would feel very uncomfortable with people asking me who I thought was mentally ill on Ehell. For one thing, I'm some people's idea of mentally ill, as in I have a mental disorder with which I have suffered for 7 years. For another, that just sounds "off" to me. Would you like someone asking you to tell them which of your acquaintances was mentally ill?

You read 'unstable' as mentally ill, I read it as 'whackaloon', having read Wry's posts over the years I doubt she was looking for a medical diagnosis from Scubadog.

That definition is a common one, and I fully admit that that is my first association with the word. However, I wasn't talking about diagnoses per se; It's a combination of both armchair psychology and your (general you being used) own opinion about certain things.

However, whackaloon is not something I'd call anyone. Calling someone crazy, which is the meaning of whackaloon, for a set of beliefs they hold (provided those beliefs are not in favor of criminal acts) is just wrong. To me, whackaloon and mentally ill is a distinction of little, if any, difference.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: KimberlyRose on October 27, 2011, 06:27:28 PM
I never thought you were Wry Exchange....  I was honestly just curious if you were a member of the club because maybe it would help shed some light on that side of things.  You have what I would consider a very charitable view of the questions.

We do talk here about giving the benefit of the doubt.  ;)  Seriously, though, you and Sootikins are pretty much looking at the same thing--the same posts on ehell and now that you've posted the PM exchange, I'm assuming neither of you knows more/different than the other.  Since no one has "the other side" of the story, then it's all how people perceive things, and goodness knows we have enough threads here that all come down to: person A perceives a situation one way, person B perceives it a different way, and often neither of them are wrong.

I think it's important to consider that none of us really have the whole story.  (You know what they say: there are three sides to every story: yours, mine, and the truth.)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:29:54 PM
Sootikin, are you a member of the secret facebook group?

I am not asking if you are a member of a group soley created to bully and troll people, I am just asking if you are a member of the secret facebook group.

I'm a member of several secret facebook groups.

She's asking if you are a member of the secret FB group.  You know which one.

eta: It's your right not to answer, but I personally dislike cute answers.

Read my edit, which I posted before you quoted my originally answer.

I personally dislike the suspicion I'm attracting simply because I'm not marching to the same drum.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Doll Fiend on October 27, 2011, 06:32:31 PM
Frankly, I'm sad that there was a group created that revolved around judging some posters above others. I wouldn't have been as saddened if a group splintered off to get into more debate or into more controversial topics, (legal and such). I joined ehell because I'm interested in etiquette and want to learn to approach situations with more personal grace. I'm hoping to become someone who is polite, but doesn't mind when other's aren't. I'm not there yet, but here is where I try to see the other side of people's arguments and apply that to Real Life (like not judging someone's actions because I know from ehell that they could be thinking, x, y, or z)



Sadly, I believe that this is exactly why the group was formed but a few did take their own actions here on Ehell.  I am betting it was formed to create off board friendships, play FB games, network in ways/topics that are not allowed on here. I am also betting that some of the people who are going against the grain with the Mods and some of the more interesting posters are not part of the group or at least not a part of the main group. There will always be dissenters. I just hope that we all don't go around trying to figure out who is in the group and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: veraobsession on October 27, 2011, 06:32:55 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:33:33 PM

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and Wry could just as easily be recruiting for a member fan club as a troll group or, you know,  just a group of like minded individuals who might want to chat about things other than the allowed topics here.

Then why would the questions revolve around *only* things and people here? 

I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt most of the time, too.  I can't see how my like/dislike or feelings on the stability of Ehell forum members has anything to do with chatting about topics not allowed here.  Can you?

Actually yes I can, I've made friends here and the basis for those friendships is often shared opinions, I tend towards people who think like I do, or those who hold intriguing but wildly different views than mine.  So in an initial conversation that's sizing me up I don't see anything bizarre or sinister in being asked who I agree and disagree with.

Fair enough.  We disagree, but that's ok.  How about my opinions on the stability (I can only assume it means mental) of forum members.  How does that fit in?

I tend to think it has a lot more to do with gauging whether or not I'm going to "fit in" in a way that has nothing to do with friendly conversation.

So asking you who you admired was just a cover question?  I suspect it fits in the 'we all know posters here who are whackaloons, maybe your whackaloon could be a member of the group.  You'd be more likely to join if the posters you agree with and admire are there and less likely if the group's made up of the ones you disagree with and think are 'unstable.  I just don't see the menace that you do.

Sootikin, I would feel very uncomfortable with people asking me who I thought was mentally ill on Ehell. For one thing, I'm some people's idea of mentally ill, as in I have a mental disorder with which I have suffered for 7 years. For another, that just sounds "off" to me. Would you like someone asking you to tell them which of your acquaintances was mentally ill?

You read 'unstable' as mentally ill, I read it as 'whackaloon', having read Wry's posts over the years I doubt she was looking for a medical diagnosis from Scubadog.

That definition is a common one, and I fully admit that that is my first association with the word. However, I wasn't talking about diagnoses per se; It's a combination of both armchair psychology and your (general you being used) own opinion about certain things.

However, whackaloon is not something I'd call anyone. Calling someone crazy, which is the meaning of whackaloon, for a set of beliefs they hold (provided those beliefs are not in favor of criminal acts) is just wrong. To me, whackaloon and mentally ill is a distinction of little, if any, difference.

Then take it up with all the other posters here who use whackaloon on a regular basis, I'd never heard the word before ehell, I don't use it to describe the mentally ill.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 06:36:10 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: veraobsession on October 27, 2011, 06:37:26 PM
Another message from a banned member.

"I joined the forum because the stories entertained me. I stayed because I enjoyed the camaraderie. I made good friends (now friends IRL & dear to my heart). I watched as some people were allowed to behave deplorably & with impunity... Nothing was done.

I joined a group, following that dear friend and, admittedly, expressed frustration about the trends of favouritism and actual HATE (dehumanizing language & racism for example) being overlooked, swept under the rug, or even condoned!

I didn't bully. The only thing I did for my lone warning, was elude to my doubt of claims of ignorance by someone for their "hidden" vulgarity. This same someone who has been outrageously hateful in their own posts, at that. And even openly racist. They're still here.

Otherwise, I just did as everyone else. No one knew me (well, cept the person I dared question) because I didn't stand out.

Yet... I'm gone. I'm gone because I supposedly hang out with a "bad crowd".. Yet some of them remain. So, is it a bad crowd & I 'deserve' it for letting (?) things occur or just more arbitrary favouritism to protect the pets?

That's what it looks like."
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: veraobsession on October 27, 2011, 06:40:07 PM
The evidence suggests otherwise

Considering I'm the only member that has come forward thus far, what evidence are you referring to?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 06:41:42 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise

Excellent, can you show it to us?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 06:41:55 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise

Yeah like this excerpt: "Occasionally were eHellions discussed? Yep. And that is why the group was made secret *which is simply the name FB gives that setting*. The group did. not.want. anything to go back to the main site as that is a violation."
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 06:42:08 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.

Vera, that was spot on. I haven't wanted to say anything about it because that's not my goal, but I'm glad you were able to address this.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 06:43:30 PM
The evidence suggests otherwise

Considering I'm the only member that has come forward thus far, what evidence are you referring to?

the evidence that the Dame posted here http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202 yesterday.

i find these messages from banned members to be very interesting.  all of them say, but i didn't do anything!  they hung out in a group that disparaged E-Hell.  they watched while members of their group came onto e-Hell and posted nastiness here. 

maybe they didn't do anything themselves.  but they didn't stand up.  not standing up implies tacit agreement with the tactics being employed.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Two Ravens on October 27, 2011, 06:44:14 PM
The evidence suggests otherwise

Considering I'm the only member that has come forward thus far, what evidence are you referring to?

Not furrcats, but many people are now posting on the "public" facebook page, admitting that bad things were said about members here, and other stuff, and accusing people who are against this kind of thing as being "jealous."

Personally, while the group might have been started with pure intentions, I found the vetting questions quite telling.  "Tell us who you hate and we'll see if you "make the cut."  Disagree with us, and you can't be part of our special group.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 06:45:10 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise

Yeah like this excerpt: "Occasionally were eHellions discussed? Yep. And that is why the group was made secret *which is simply the name FB gives that setting*. The group did. not.want. anything to go back to the main site as that is a violation."

this, right here is the problem.  the group knew that what they were doing was a violation of the rules of the main site.  yet they did it anyway.  and when they were caught (outed by one of their own, apparently), they have the audacity to complain about being banned here, and how unjust the ban is. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ceallach on October 27, 2011, 06:46:09 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise

Excellent, can you show it to us?

May I ask what the purpose of this exercise is?    Do you think the moderators are going to have a "We see the light moment!" and start grovelling for all of the banned members to return?   Or are you just hoping that more people will jump on the evil conspiracy bandwagon and decide to leave eHell along with you?  (Which I assume is what you plan on doing seeing you think the moderators here have done such a terrible job?)

I'm sincerely curious as to what this dialogue and debate is intended to achieve, as I believe the mods have made their position abundantly clear, and no further correspondence will be entered unto. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: SamiHami on October 27, 2011, 06:48:13 PM
Another message from a banned member.

"I joined the forum because the stories entertained me. I stayed because I enjoyed the camaraderie. I made good friends (now friends IRL & dear to my heart). I watched as some people were allowed to behave deplorably & with impunity... Nothing was done.

I joined a group, following that dear friend and, admittedly, expressed frustration about the trends of favouritism and actual HATE (dehumanizing language & racism for example) being overlooked, swept under the rug, or even condoned!
I didn't bully. The only thing I did for my lone warning, was elude to my doubt of claims of ignorance by someone for their "hidden" vulgarity. This same someone who has been outrageously hateful in their own posts, at that. And even openly racist. They're still here.Otherwise, I just did as everyone else. No one knew me (well, cept the person I dared question) because I didn't stand out.

Yet... I'm gone. I'm gone because I supposedly hang out with a "bad crowd".. Yet some of them remain. So, is it a bad crowd & I 'deserve' it for letting (?) things occur or just more arbitrary favouritism to protect the pets?

That's what it looks like."

And did this former member report the racist and hateful comments to a mod? I'm sorry, but I have an extremely difficult time believing that someone posted openly racist comments and did not get banned, yet someone who commented on that behavior did. If that were to actually have occurred I am certain that I, along with many, many other members would have jumped all over that and reported it to the mods.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: baglady on October 27, 2011, 06:50:46 PM
Well, since I am not a member of the secret Facebook group -- and in fact didn't even know about it until the Dame outed it in the "sensei" thread -- and Vera is (and is brave enough to admit it), I'm inclined to believe her. Because I simply can't wrap my mind around the idea of someone starting a FB group to bash and/or sabotage specific members of E-Hell who annoy them. Especially a group started by someone (or someones) with a longtime membership on an *etiquette* board, of all things.

E-hell has hundreds if not thousands of members. It would be an awful lot of work to vet every prospective member of Super Sekrit Facebook Group to make sure only those who dislike the exact same posters are admitted (what if I dislike only eight of the 10 on the list, or dislike a poster's stance on, say, cash bars at weddings but thoroughly enjoy her posts about her crazy SIL?) ... and are willing to troll or sabotage or otherwise make the E-hell lives of those posters miserable.

I can see some cattiness and gossip happening on such a group ("Can you believe what Poster X said on Thread Z? That's crazy!" "Wow, another of Poster Y's threads got locked; when will she learn?" -- that sort of thing), but I have trouble believing that it's the reason for the group's very existence.

Re mental illness: We have quite a few E-hellions who are mentally ill. I know this because they have posted frankly and fearlessly about their diagnoses and their struggles. And they are some of the sanest people here.

In conclusion, I'd like to thank the Dame and the Mods for keeping this thread open. I think we need it.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Twik on October 27, 2011, 06:54:51 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.

vera, can you explain why the invitation asked the invitee essentially to identify his/her "alignment" with other posters? That does not seem to be necessary to merely expand on other topics off of the board.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: veraobsession on October 27, 2011, 06:55:48 PM
I have not left ehell, have no issues, and have never made fun of anyone. That is what I'm trying to get across. Were there some there who might have a grudge or disliked another poster, of course. A lot of that is coming out right now because people are hurt & venting there is now their only recourse. There are people who have been rude to others or said something they should not have on ehell and had posts deleted/been gagged/ or outright banned. We all MET on ehell, but it was not an ehell group. I have no reply to the messages anyone received about who they did or did not like. I was asked to join by a friend and did so. I can make a secret group for all the redheads or people from KY & ask those I had met on ehell to join & I'm sure we would talk about some of the things being talked about on ehell at the same time but that doesn't make it an ehell page. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: kittytongue on October 27, 2011, 06:56:27 PM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

If they were deleted. .  How can they provide proof?

This may have been mentioned but I recently saw a thread that mentioned the connection between  vaccines and autism spectrum disorders (debunking them I think)  where the link was deleted. However the mod deleting the link provided an explanation as to why this had happened.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 07:00:01 PM
*cutting the quote tree*
That definition is a common one, and I fully admit that that is my first association with the word. However, I wasn't talking about diagnoses per se; It's a combination of both armchair psychology and your (general you being used) own opinion about certain things.

However, whackaloon is not something I'd call anyone. Calling someone crazy, which is the meaning of whackaloon, for a set of beliefs they hold (provided those beliefs are not in favor of criminal acts) is just wrong. To me, whackaloon and mentally ill is a distinction of little, if any, difference.

Then take it up with all the other posters here who use whackaloon on a regular basis, I'd never heard the word before ehell, I don't use it to describe the mentally ill.

I'm sure you don't. However, whackaloon means crazy, which in turn is another way to say mentally ill, so that's what you're calling someone when you call them a whackaloon. It's not exactly considered in most circles a term of endearment.

A relative of mine has a saying: "If you think you're too cynical, you're probably wrong." I used to think that was a big bowl of tripe until I grew up and lived a little. I can understand wanting to put the best construct on people's actions (my religion has that as part of its beliefs), but you can't exactly put someone asking who another person would call a whackaloon in a better light. Attempting that would be about like calling the corpse flower a rose.

And thank you baglady, for your kind words:
Re mental illness: We have quite a few E-hellions who are mentally ill. I know this because they have posted frankly and fearlessly about their diagnoses and their struggles. And they are some of the sanest people here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 07:00:10 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise

Excellent, can you show it to us?

May I ask what the purpose of this exercise is?    Do you think the moderators are going to have a "We see the light moment!" and start grovelling for all of the banned members to return?   Or are you just hoping that more people will jump on the evil conspiracy bandwagon and decide to leave eHell along with you?  (Which I assume is what you plan on doing seeing you think the moderators here have done such a terrible job?)

I'm sincerely curious as to what this dialogue and debate is intended to achieve, as I believe the mods have made their position abundantly clear, and no further correspondence will be entered unto.

If you are talking to me, I'm just interested in seeing the evidence Furrcats has. 

My debating is intended to achieve nothing but express my opinion.  I've not criticised a mod here except for War_Doc's offensive comment about the childbearing capabilities of the banned members.

Try reading the whole thread before wading in - I've made it clear, to the Dame herself that I like it here, just because I don't agree with an interpretation of Wry's post dosen't mean I intend to leave.

Just follow the mods reccommendations and ignore this thread if you find it so pointless.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 07:02:06 PM
Still in va has the link
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 07:03:09 PM
Still in va has the link

and i am now posting it for the fourth time in this thread

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202

read it or don't, it matters not a bit to me.  but it's there.  how the Dame arrived at these bannings is there.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 07:04:56 PM
I hope I did not couse you problems  :P
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: veraobsession on October 27, 2011, 07:09:44 PM
Still in va has the link

and i am now posting it for the fourth time in this thread

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202

read it or don't, it matters not a bit to me.  but it's there.  how the Dame arrived at these bannings is there.

So the entire group of being punished (banned) for the message exchange between 2? I'd like to know how a topic about tea & cookies (literally) or about the house someone is trying to buy and could everyone keep their fingers crossed or me talking about my kids halloween costumes is cause for someone to be banned.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 07:10:44 PM
Still in va has the link

and i am now posting it for the fourth time in this thread

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202

read it or don't, it matters not a bit to me.  but it's there.  how the Dame arrived at these bannings is there.

And I have been arguing that I don't see those posts as evidence of nefarious deeds, I'm not hung up on the word 'unstable' I notice she asks who Scuba 'admires' as well, but restating my opinion over and over doesn't change anything - anymore than reposting them for the fourth time does.  Reposting the same things over and over doesn't make them any truer, believe that or don't, doesn't matter a bit to me.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 07:11:43 PM
Quote
I've not criticised a mod here except for Warbaby's ...

Oops, sorry to nitpick but I think you mean WarDoc.
I do :) thanks I'll correct my post.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: cass2591 on October 27, 2011, 07:12:11 PM
I have an idea. To those who are/were a member of the secret FB group and are defending it to the (figuratively speaking) death, why not make it public (without removing any posts) and let the chips fall where they may?

Maybe everything on there was all roses and puppy dog tails and all you talked about was sex and politics, ie topics not approved for this forum. So what? What are you hiding?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 07:12:53 PM
Still in va has the link

and i am now posting it for the fourth time in this thread

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202

read it or don't, it matters not a bit to me.  but it's there.  how the Dame arrived at these bannings is there.

So the entire group of being punished (banned) for the message exchange between 2? I'd like to know how a topic about tea & cookies (literally) or about the house someone is trying to buy and could everyone keep their fingers crossed or me talking about my kids halloween costumes is cause for someone to be banned.

No.. more for things like "While the original intention of the group may have had its roots in discussing how to handle members one disliked , it rapidly spiraled down into catty, ugly, witchy rants about other members who were excluded from the group.  In some cases this translated into deliberate attempts to provoke people on Ehell so that they would get moderated." and "Around June 30th, there was a thread in the super secret Facebook group basically placing bets on which member of the super secret group would get banned next on Ehell.  Most of those ban worthy posts were made in Ehell threads critical of forum rules and moderation.  It is especially significant to note that more than 85% of those people publicly griping about the forum and moderators had not used the "Report To Moderator" link to report problems with people or threads.  Or they flat out lied that their reports were being ignored when none had been submitted at all.  "
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 27, 2011, 07:16:21 PM
Sootikin, I'm sure you have read my post so you do realize that I made no disparging remarks whatsoever to childbearing or things related.

I stated that some of the nasty PM's and moderation reports that a few users have submitted or sent makes me worry about how they are raising their children since if they can be this uninhibited on a message board, they seem to be rather toxic.  The actual quote is "Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to."

Forgot to add, it had nothing to do with whether the member was banned or still around (have had things from both).  I only based it on the content of said reports or PM's.

Now, I submit to you that you need to ensure that you present factual information before you make a baseless accusation.

Also, there is a difference between spirited debate and actually trying to stir the pot.  There are various non-confrontational ways to express your points also but snapping at people is not the way to do it.

Disagreement is fine as long as it doesn't come across as some vendetta.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ceallach on October 27, 2011, 07:18:07 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise

Excellent, can you show it to us?

May I ask what the purpose of this exercise is?    Do you think the moderators are going to have a "We see the light moment!" and start grovelling for all of the banned members to return?   Or are you just hoping that more people will jump on the evil conspiracy bandwagon and decide to leave eHell along with you?  (Which I assume is what you plan on doing seeing you think the moderators here have done such a terrible job?)

I'm sincerely curious as to what this dialogue and debate is intended to achieve, as I believe the mods have made their position abundantly clear, and no further correspondence will be entered unto.

If you are talking to me, I'm just interested in seeing the evidence Furrcats has. 

My debating is intended to achieve nothing but express my opinion.  I've not criticised a mod here except for Warbaby's offensive comment about the childbearing capabilities of the banned members.

Try reading the whole thread before wading in - I've made it clear, to the Dame herself that I like it here, just because I don't agree with an interpretation of Wry's post dosen't mean I intend to leave.

Just follow the mods reccommendations and ignore this thread if you find it so pointless.

I have read the whole thread and am not sure why you feel the need to snark at me.   My question was based on a genuine interest in what you are hoping to achieve from this debate and your position on this issue - although you've been debating minor points at depth, your overall position still doesn't seem clear and I was hoping you'd clarify where you stand.  However, given that you are apparently incapable of responding politely, I will bow out as suggested.  I do believe your tone was unnecessary - this is still an etiquette forum, even if it's the administration section.  I'm off to have a coffee, I hope you all have a good day.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 27, 2011, 07:18:31 PM
Still in va has the link

and i am now posting it for the fourth time in this thread

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202

read it or don't, it matters not a bit to me.  but it's there.  how the Dame arrived at these bannings is there.

So the entire group of being punished (banned) for the message exchange between 2? I'd like to know how a topic about tea & cookies (literally) or about the house someone is trying to buy and could everyone keep their fingers crossed or me talking about my kids halloween costumes is cause for someone to be banned.

If you read EHD's post in the link provided, I think it becomes very clear that this "group" has been known about for awhile.  I would say that the PM's I forwarded were were just a small slice of information and hardly the reason for the bannings.

Based on what I read in that post, it appears you have some people in the ranks who have somehow made threads from your group available to others.  It didn't bode well for you.

I tend to agree that not all of the people in that group had bad intentions, or wished for this to happen at all.  I think the questions were really odd and I don't agree with KiwiChick's assessment of them.  You are a member of the group though, so maybe you could explain why the people there care about who someone likes, doesn't, or thinks is unstable?

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 07:27:37 PM
Sootikin, I'm sure you have read my post so you do realize that I made no disparging remarks whatsoever to childbearing or things related.

I stated that some of the nasty PM's and moderation reports that a few users have submitted or sent makes me worry about how they are raising their children since if they can be this uninhibited on a message board, they seem to be rather toxic.  The actual quote is "Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to."

Forgot to add, it had nothing to do with whether the member was banned or still around (have had things from both).  I only based it on the content of said reports or PM's.

Now, I submit to you that you need to ensure that you present factual information before you make a baseless accusation.

Also, there is a difference between spirited debate and actually trying to stir the pot.  There are various non-confrontational ways to express your points also but snapping at people is not the way to do it.

Disagreement is fine as long as it doesn't come across as some vendetta.

Ok I'll present the factual information again, this is the phrase I'm objecting to'...hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.[/i]"' Is not something I and I presume any member of this board expects to see a mod say about another person.

I have an opinion that differs from others, I've defended it politely, please point me to the posts I've snapped in or where I've been confrontational.  Having an opinion and doggedly defending it is not stirring the pot nor do I have a vendetta.

Additionally I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from unnecessarily editing my posts in future, I was just about to fix my mistype myself, as soon as it was pointed out to me.  You'll appreciate Warbaby and Wardoc are easily confused and not something that required moderation.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: squeakers on October 27, 2011, 07:33:31 PM


Ok I'll present the factual information again, this is the phrase I'm objecting to'...hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.[/i]"' Is not something I and I presume any member of this board expects to see a mod say about another person.


Why? If they do have kids and model the kind of vitriol alluded to by the posts discussed here. Well, here comes another generation of ill mannered people.  If they don't have kids? Then they will only be judged by their friends and families and not be emulated by non-existent kids.  Adults are not as easily led to believe egregious behavior is A-Ok.

(fixed the quote tree)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 07:34:38 PM
I am a member.

The "secret group" was not created to pick on anyone, or bully, or troll, or create issues on EH. Did topics on ehell come up? Of course they did. SOME people in the group were posting in the group about the same things they were posting in on ehell. Things that were really going on in my life I posted about on ehell. But we are not supposed to vent, or talk about something that is non-etiquette related on ehell and sometimes people wanna' do just that so we must go outside of ehell to accomplish that. I have not posted on ehell in several years but posted in the group, so that tells you how much it revolves around ehell.

The song "Your so vain" comes to mind. This group is not about, or being done to, anyone.


The evidence suggests otherwise

Excellent, can you show it to us?

May I ask what the purpose of this exercise is?    Do you think the moderators are going to have a "We see the light moment!" and start grovelling for all of the banned members to return?   Or are you just hoping that more people will jump on the evil conspiracy bandwagon and decide to leave eHell along with you?  (Which I assume is what you plan on doing seeing you think the moderators here have done such a terrible job?)

I'm sincerely curious as to what this dialogue and debate is intended to achieve, as I believe the mods have made their position abundantly clear, and no further correspondence will be entered unto.

If you are talking to me, I'm just interested in seeing the evidence Furrcats has. 

My debating is intended to achieve nothing but express my opinion.  I've not criticised a mod here except for Warbaby's offensive comment about the childbearing capabilities of the banned members.

Try reading the whole thread before wading in - I've made it clear, to the Dame herself that I like it here, just because I don't agree with an interpretation of Wry's post dosen't mean I intend to leave.

Just follow the mods reccommendations and ignore this thread if you find it so pointless.

I have read the whole thread and am not sure why you feel the need to snark at me.   My question was based on a genuine interest in what you are hoping to achieve from this debate and your position on this issue - although you've been debating minor points at depth, your overall position still doesn't seem clear and I was hoping you'd clarify where you stand.  However, given that you are apparently incapable of responding politely, I will bow out as suggested.  I do believe your tone was unnecessary - this is still an etiquette forum, even if it's the administration section.  I'm off to have a coffee, I hope you all have a good day.

If you had read what I've posted you wouid have seen my response to the Dame stating I liked it here, sorry you found my comment snarky, I didn't intend it to be.

My overall position is, I read Wry's Pm to Sscuba differently to everyone else, I didn't focus on one word or assume there was ill intent behind it.  I noticed she asked for two negatives and two positives, I didn't choose to dwell on the negatives.  I don't know how to be clearer than that.   I've continued the debate in response to other posters, who I'm assuming are as interested in my view as I am in theirs.

I don't know why you think the second comment you highlighted is snarky, as I said, it's what the mods advise, I don't recall you posting in this thread (and I'm not reviewing 20 odd pages to see if you did) but posting just to ask me 'what the purpose of this exercise is?' seems a little mean spirited to me.

Just because I'm blunt doesn't make me impolite.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Elfmama on October 27, 2011, 07:42:41 PM
Wait...did I read this right? Rainha, Aventurine, wyozozo, LadyPekoe, vTenebrae, and the others mentioned in this thread have all been banned?? ?
Yes.  And Elfqueen13 as well.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 27, 2011, 07:43:57 PM
Let's work this backwards from easiest to hardest.  I corrected the post when I got to it before anybody else said anything to be nice.  It was a harmless edit and if you have a problem with that, then there is nothing I can do to help you in that area.

You asked for evidence.  Your post I edited is one where you snapped at someone to read the whole thread before wading in.  That was unnecessary since the poster indicates they read through the whole thread.  You basically saying someone is fear mongering because they have a legit concern.  Yet when someone calls you on it, you state you cannot have a rational discussion with them.  You have been constantly asking for evidence even though the links have been constantly provided.    Also, constantly stating things are heresay although evidence has been provided.

Again, if you wish to have spirited debates, that's one thing but if you wish to "grind an axe" and claim it's just because you march to the beat of a different drummer, that's totally another thing.

Also, being blunt can be impolite depending on the way information is presented.

See, squeakers knows exactly what I said.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: ginlyn32 on October 27, 2011, 07:44:16 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 07:44:44 PM
Still in va has the link

and i am now posting it for the fourth time in this thread

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202

read it or don't, it matters not a bit to me.  but it's there.  how the Dame arrived at these bannings is there.

So the entire group of being punished (banned) for the message exchange between 2? I'd like to know how a topic about tea & cookies (literally) or about the house someone is trying to buy and could everyone keep their fingers crossed or me talking about my kids halloween costumes is cause for someone to be banned.

Vera, frankly, i don't get what you're complaining about.  you are able to post here.  you were obviously not one of that group who seemed to have unkind intentions towards E-Hell and the posters here. 

you state is the entire group to be punished and banned?  well, since i'm reading your posts, i think the answer is no.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 07:47:21 PM

I'm not stirring anything up. This acct was created solely for lurking.

Guests can read most boards without registering.  You created a new account so you could lurk in places restricted to guests.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 07:48:46 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

sounds like a private message board with clearly stated rules to me. 

no one is insisting that people from the super-secret group turn in their friends.  the fact is, someone from that group became uncomfortable, and DID turn in the group.

and before you make the leap that is surely coming next, which is the right to free speech, please remember that free speech cannot be abridged in the public square, i.e., on public property.  there is no assurance of free speech on private property.  since the Dame pays for this board, it is private property.  you abides by her rules, or you hits the road.  there is no entitlement to free speech here. 

if you don't like it, go start your own board, and pay for it.  then you can make any rules you want.  in other words, put your own money where your mouth is.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 07:49:47 PM
POD
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 07:51:14 PM


If you're in a boat, and the boat is being driven by a current toward some rocks, you have two choices.  You can abandon ship, or you can try to turn the boat.


By wrestling the steering wheel from the captain and first mates?  Don't you think the owner of the boat has a much greater interest in the preservation of his ship than his passengers? 

Quote
I guess some people thought they could save the boat.

Most people would call that mutiny.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms Aspasia on October 27, 2011, 07:52:09 PM
I heartily support this attempt to stop cyberbullying on EHell; I loathe bullying.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: JamFly on October 27, 2011, 07:53:30 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

Please don't compare an internet forum to Nazi Germany. You have the option of leaving the forum, and no mods or Ehell Dame is going to stop you, or do anything to you. The most they can do is gag or ban you. There is no comparison whatsoever.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: silvercelt on October 27, 2011, 07:54:58 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

Please don't compare an internet forum to Nazi Germany. You have the option of leaving the forum, and no mods or Ehell Dame is going to stop you, or do anything to you. The most they can do is gag or ban you. There is no comparison whatsoever.

Thank you.  I was trying to decide how to word a response to that, and you did it so well.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 07:55:37 PM
I'm doing POD
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms Aspasia on October 27, 2011, 07:55:47 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate? 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Solanna Dryden on October 27, 2011, 07:56:29 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 07:57:59 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

Please don't compare an internet forum to Nazi Germany. You have the option of leaving the forum, and no mods or Ehell Dame is going to stop you, or do anything to you. The most they can do is gag or ban you. There is no comparison whatsoever.

And now that we've fulfilled Godwin's law (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Godwin%27s_law (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)) maybe we can all have a nice, long drink of coke before we all post again. Maybe with some bourbon mixed in for good measure?

ETA: Toki called it first :).
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: silvercelt on October 27, 2011, 07:58:08 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate?

Godwin's Law!!

Darn. LadyL and Toki beat me to it!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 07:59:08 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate? 


Yes, Godwin's Law. And it always gets my haunches up when people compare things to Nazism. EhellDame isn't breaking into your houses and forcing people to be shot and gassed. The mods are not actively trying to annihilate you.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shores on October 27, 2011, 07:59:20 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?
I think the admin has already been banned... so I'm not sure she'd feel any compunction to do so.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 08:00:49 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate?

if it's not, it should be.

especially when the poster throwing around allusions to Nazi Germany doesn't understand that the right to free speech does not apply to private property.  which E-Hell is.  you can't stand in the middle of Wal-Mart and accuse them of sweatshop practices either.  that pesky private property thing again.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 08:01:19 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate? 


Yes, Godwin's Law. And it always gets my haunches up when people compare things to Nazism. EhellDame isn't breaking into your houses and forcing people to be shot and gassed. The mods are not actively trying to annihilate you.

But if they were, they would do it secretly - on facebook!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 08:02:08 PM
So has the group been delated on facebook?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms Aspasia on October 27, 2011, 08:02:15 PM
Ah, that's the one, thanks!  I followed the link on Godwin's Law and saw that it *tends* to mean that the person's argument won't hold together; but shouldn't be invoked just because, which probably I did.   :)

Anyway, I digress, and shall return to my earlier point.  It can be difficult and stressful to take action against bullying.  I hope that all those who are trying to stop it on EHell are doing okay.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 08:02:30 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate? 


Yes, Godwin's Law. And it always gets my haunches up when people compare things to Nazism. EhellDame isn't breaking into your houses and forcing people to be shot and gassed. The mods are not actively trying to annihilate you.

But if they were, they would do it secretly - on facebook!

I hope that was sarcasm.  :-\
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: cass2591 on October 27, 2011, 08:03:08 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: evely28 on October 27, 2011, 08:03:36 PM

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?

An excellent idea.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 27, 2011, 08:03:46 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate? 


Yes, Godwin's Law. And it always gets my haunches up when people compare things to Nazism. EhellDame isn't breaking into your houses and forcing people to be shot and gassed. The mods are not actively trying to annihilate you.

But if they were, they would do it secretly - on facebook!

I hope that was sarcasm.  :-\

Well, unless facebook has an "annihilation" app I'm unaware of, then yes  :P.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 08:04:36 PM
I thought it was a joke too
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: readingchick on October 27, 2011, 08:04:56 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?

Honestly? I'm not sure what the benefit would be. And I think the mod in question was Cass.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 27, 2011, 08:05:35 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate? 


Yes, Godwin's Law. And it always gets my haunches up when people compare things to Nazism. EhellDame isn't breaking into your houses and forcing people to be shot and gassed. The mods are not actively trying to annihilate you.

But if they were, they would do it secretly - on facebook!

I hope that was sarcasm.  :-\

Well, unless facebook has an "annihilation" app I'm unaware of, then yes  :P.

Well, color me embarrassed. Sorry, LadyL.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Clara Bow on October 27, 2011, 08:05:41 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.




I should never have had children because I've been outspoken about my issues with ehell? And I'm taking this from someone with "killing by profession" as a sig? Awesome.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 08:06:12 PM

I'm not stirring anything up. This acct was created solely for lurking.

Guests can read most boards without registering.  You created a new account so you could lurk in places restricted to guests.

I already explained why I created another account. I'm not going to defend myself. I don't need to. I asked nicely, even if you want to deny it, that my account be deleted or at the very least re-named. More than once. I was in the process of taking care of it myself when you decided I had apparently broken some rule, which you still have yet to clarify. I haven't posted here in years, with the 2 exceptions of a funeral thread I saw while lurking and the one yesterday. That's it. There is nothing in those 2 posts ban worthy, no matter how you try and take them. I'm not asking to be unbanned.

I've stated my goal, to have (minimum) my screen name changed and my profile info deleted. I don't think that's unreasonable, and considering I requested it TWICE (and once AFTER banning) before you decided to ban me I don't think it can remotely be viewed as retaliatory. You chose to not respond to either email, and you still haven't responded to the third. Your "contact a mod or myself" doesn't hold water when you can't contact a mod once banned, and you don't reply to your own email messages. Again, two of which were sent BEFORE I was even banned. I've been trying to get my information deleted for months, banning of people in my friends list who no longer post was only the catalyst for me to do it myself.

I don't know where this supposed "hatred" is, since the only time I've ever even discussed Ehell was when I was asked why I left. I didn't lie, I didn't tell anyone to leave or cause trouble. No "goodbye cruel forum"posts, I left. I did send you a pm (it may have been an email) explaining EXACTLY why, not hatefully. Pointed maybe, but nothing worse than I've seen you dish out in the open. Why waste the energy hating something like a website? This only leads me to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't agree and chooses to leave suddenly hates you and your site. Which again, your site. You can choose who you want in your group and who you don't.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 08:07:25 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms Aspasia on October 27, 2011, 08:08:10 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?

Honestly? I'm not sure what the benefit would be. And I think the mod in question was Cass.
The harm would probably outweigh any benefit.  I'm satisfied to trust the moderators.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Two Ravens on October 27, 2011, 08:09:13 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?

Honestly? I'm not sure what the benefit would be. And I think the mod in question was Cass.
The harm would probably outweigh any benefit.  I'm satisfied to trust the moderators.

What would the harm be, if the group is as innocent as has been claimed?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: i am le tired on October 27, 2011, 08:09:59 PM
I think asking for the content of the group *might* be reasonable, but since making the group public would divulge people's real names, that's a huge issue. Once you have someone's name, especially if it's unique, you can find out all sorts of things like their home address or where they work. I honestly don't trust anyone on the internet with that kind of information, and with the number of members ehell has, I think that no one should expect that they should have to make that info public.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 08:10:36 PM


ETA:  I do want to say, in the sake of fairness, that the questions posed to Scuba_Dog were from one member of the group.  Who knows if it is indicative of the mindset of the entire group.  One person does not necessarily represent the whole.

I'm not going to refer to sources I do not have permission to reveal but I've seen the evidence, heard the first hand testimony.   
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Harriet Jones on October 27, 2011, 08:11:25 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Someone stated that the super secret group administrator has been banned.  How are they supposed to respond?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: KimberlyRose on October 27, 2011, 08:12:22 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Innocent or not, it'd be irresponsible to open the group up to the public without everyone's consent.  I've always felt it's important to *not* give away other people's information, so I'd hope they'd make sure it was okay with all the members.  If anyone's posted personal information (veraobsession mentioned that it's not all talk about ehell), then they shouldn't have that made public without their consent.

If you think about it, we have to be approved for membership on ehell, and there are some sections that are only open to members (like INAH, and I think the meet-up threads might be the same).  I think if we suddenly opened those up for general viewing, there would be some people who wouldn't be pleased.  (I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 08:13:28 PM
I think asking for the content of the group *might* be reasonable, but since making the group public would divulge people's real names, that's a huge issue. Once you have someone's name, especially if it's unique, you can find out all sorts of things like their home address or where they work. I honestly don't trust anyone on the internet with that kind of information, and with the number of members ehell has, I think that no one should expect that they should have to make that info public.

 Yep I can see that going no where good for ehell
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms Aspasia on October 27, 2011, 08:13:47 PM
<snip>

Honestly? I'm not sure what the benefit would be. And I think the mod in question was Cass.
The harm would probably outweigh any benefit.  I'm satisfied to trust the moderators.

What would the harm be, if the group is as innocent as has been claimed?
[/quote]
(Hope I've trimmed the quote tree correctly.)
As I understand it, the Facebook records refer to individual forum users who received, or were to receive, some unpleasant attentions.  There could be a shock to individuals in seeing themselves named as targets.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Solanna Dryden on October 27, 2011, 08:14:03 PM
That's true, I'd forgotten about the real names thing. It's too bad we couldn't have one person take screencaps or something and blank out the names, leaving just the screen names.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Gabrielle on October 27, 2011, 08:14:46 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Innocent or not, it'd be irresponsible to open the group up to the public without everyone's consent.  I've always felt it's important to *not* give away other people's information, so I'd hope they'd make sure it was okay with all the members.  If anyone's posted personal information (veraobsession mentioned that it's not all talk about ehell), then they shouldn't have that made public without their consent.

If you think about it, we have to be approved for membership on ehell, and there are some sections that are only open to members (like INAH, and I think the meet-up threads might be the same).  I think if we suddenly opened those up for general viewing, there would be some people who wouldn't be pleased.  (I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.)

Perhaps the group could be opened to the moderators or just the Dame then. Surely that would assuage privacy concerns
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: i am le tired on October 27, 2011, 08:15:05 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?

Honestly? I'm not sure what the benefit would be. And I think the mod in question was Cass.
The harm would probably outweigh any benefit.  I'm satisfied to trust the moderators.

What would the harm be, if the group is as innocent as has been claimed?

Well, either it's full of snark and evildoings, in which case it will stir up drama, or it's all sunshine and puppies and a whole bunch of people get their identities compromised, or most likely, it's six of one and half dozen of another, in which case it will take months to agonize over what exactly people meant when they said something, which will damage this forum most of all AND set the unfortunate precedent that we should all fork over any and all internet postings we've ever made anywhere if we want to continue to post here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Clara Bow on October 27, 2011, 08:15:40 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?

Honestly? I'm not sure what the benefit would be. And I think the mod in question was Cass.
The harm would probably outweigh any benefit.  I'm satisfied to trust the moderators.

What would the harm be, if the group is as innocent as has been claimed?

Because it's a private group and not everyone in the world's business? Because people who felt very comfortable there gave information about themselves that they wouldn't have given outside of a private group, personal information that is not for public consumption? Why are you so worried about it? It's the internet for heaven's sakes. Not life and death. I can't believe that this is such a big deal.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Bales on October 27, 2011, 08:17:17 PM
Some of the members, that were banned, and people are asking why don't know all that is going on. Yes, some have been long-standing members for many years but that doesn't mean that they can't go down the dark path either.  Some of these "upstanding" members that have been so helpful and made the world full of puppy dogs and pink unicorns have also been the most vindictive.  Some of the moderation reports I have seen from some of these people makes me shake my head and hope they don't have any kids they can transfer their toxic personality to.
 
<snip>

Irony is so ironic.




I should never have had children because I've been outspoken about my issues with ehell? And I'm taking this from someone with "killing by profession" as a sig? Awesome.

I read War Doc's statement as his hope for the human race that people that can spew such vile negativity and nastiness in a PM to a moderator (and over what?  an online forum?  this is not life or death here) don't pass on that lovely personality for future generations to deal with.  If they do have kids, here's hoping they don't raise the next Hitler! 

(Sorry, couldn't help myself since I just learned of that Hitler rule by reading this thread.  And I don't mean it to take away from what I'm saying, but to add some humor.  Sorry if you don't enjoy my sense of humor.)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Two Ravens on October 27, 2011, 08:17:36 PM
Your insistence that people turn in their friends for activity that has little to do with you and opinions that differ from yours screams McCarthyism. Paranoia, backbiting, snark, people disappearing with no explanation? Sounds like some internet version of Nazi Germany.

And Godwin's law is invoked.

I actually agree with a mod's comment (I've forgotten who is was, sorry!) that the group should be made open with no posts removed. I think that would be quite telling, and would remove a lot of the questioning here.

How about it, group members?

Honestly? I'm not sure what the benefit would be. And I think the mod in question was Cass.
The harm would probably outweigh any benefit.  I'm satisfied to trust the moderators.

What would the harm be, if the group is as innocent as has been claimed?

Well, either it's full of snark and evildoings, in which case it will stir up drama, or it's all sunshine and puppies and a whole bunch of people get their identities compromised, or most likely, it's six of one and half dozen of another, in which case it will take months to agonize over what exactly people meant when they said something, which will damage this forum most of all AND set the unfortunate precedent that we should all fork over any and all internet postings we've ever made anywhere if we want to continue to post here.

I doubt anyone expects the group to be made public.  I am just wondering how these members, who have supposedly been talking behing everyone's back, and at least one made up a bogus thread here, expect everyone to take their word that nothing bad has been going on...
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: hobish on October 27, 2011, 08:17:57 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

Not i, thanks. I am sure it was started with the best intentions; but at this point it would just feel like demanding to see the mean girls' high school slam book. I don't know a softer way to put it; that is how I feel and no reflection on others, here or otherwise.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: KimberlyRose on October 27, 2011, 08:18:18 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Innocent or not, it'd be irresponsible to open the group up to the public without everyone's consent.  I've always felt it's important to *not* give away other people's information, so I'd hope they'd make sure it was okay with all the members.  If anyone's posted personal information (veraobsession mentioned that it's not all talk about ehell), then they shouldn't have that made public without their consent.

If you think about it, we have to be approved for membership on ehell, and there are some sections that are only open to members (like INAH, and I think the meet-up threads might be the same).  I think if we suddenly opened those up for general viewing, there would be some people who wouldn't be pleased.  (I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.)

Perhaps the group could be opened to the moderators or just the Dame then. Surely that would assuage privacy concerns

Not to imply anything, but I'm not sure that people who have just been banned from this site are going to be willing to trust the moderators or the Dame.  None of us know what's been going on behind the scenes, but some of the people who have been banned have never, that I've seen, behaved inappropriately on this board.  I don't think cooperating with the ehell leadership team is going to be high on their list of priorities.  :)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 08:18:29 PM
Let's work this backwards from easiest to hardest.  I corrected the post when I got to it before anybody else said anything to be nice.  It was a harmless edit and if you have a problem with that, then there is nothing I can do to help you in that area.

You asked for evidence.  Your post I edited is one where you snapped at someone to read the whole thread before wading in.  That was unnecessary since the poster indicates they read through the whole thread.  You basically saying someone is fear mongering because they have a legit concern.  Yet when someone calls you on it, you state you cannot have a rational discussion with them.  You have been constantly asking for evidence even though the links have been constantly provided.    Also, constantly stating things are heresay although evidence has been provided.

Again, if you wish to have spirited debates, that's one thing but if you wish to "grind an axe" and claim it's just because you march to the beat of a different drummer, that's totally another thing.

Also, being blunt can be impolite depending on the way information is presented.

See, squeakers knows exactly what I said.

Do mods regularly make harmless edits, it's the first time I've seen it?  The poster only indicated she had read the whole thread after my wading in comment, if she had said so before I would have had no need to suggest she did.

I haven't constantly asked for evidence - I asked once, after Furrcats entire post was 'The evidence suggests otherwise', I thought she had something new to contribute.

I haven't constantly said things were hearsay either - I stated once that things are hearsay in response to Redrose's post 'This thread is freaking me out.  There are posters that I don't care for and threads that have enraged me.  But to think a small group would actively recruit others to fuel the flames, target people, and cause trouble is, well, troubling.  And sad.' 
Because I truly don't believe based on what we have been told that anyone here, and certainly not long term members would set up a group for that purpose.

Shoo's reponse to me was 'Fear mongering, that's funny!'  I think I'm correct in assuming she wasn't going to debate, that wasn't calling me on it, that was snark which I chose to ignore.

I can quite clearly see my view on Wry Exchange's PM to Scuba is not a popular one, I can't help that, but to say I have an axe to grind because I'm defending my view is a little out there.

Squeakers agreeing with you does not prove anything.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 27, 2011, 08:18:56 PM
I should never have had children because I've been outspoken about my issues with ehell? And I'm taking this from someone with "killing by profession" as a sig? Awesome.

Well, that decision is totally up to you on the issue of having/not having children.

Being outspoken is fine, and even encouraged when it doesn't bully other members.  When one get's PM's filled with racial epitats and suggesitions on what I can do with various household implements, that's where it crosses a line.  When mod reports come in talking nastily about other posters because of they are different and why they shouldn't be here, there is a problem.

I never once said people, as I stated in the above, shouldn't have children.  What I did state was I felt sorry for said children because if the above posters can post this on a message board, they seem to be pretty toxic in real life (interesting assumptions aside) and I hope those kids don't inherit those qualities.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: JadeAngel on October 27, 2011, 08:19:05 PM
Wasn't there an old internet rule of etiquette that, once someone mentioned the Nazis, they had automatically lost the debate?

Thank you, I needed a laugh after the last nineteen odd pages.

It makes me sad that this is happening on EH, maybe I haven't been here as long as some of you, but I enjoy this place enormously and it's been troubling me that recently it has seemed like people are being targeted, like Siotehcat in the 'Are you jealous' thread. I debated whether to say my piece in that thread, but decided in the end that I would only be escalating the drama.

I had no idea about any secret societies, facebook pages or any of this until right now, I have no idea if I was a target, I doubt very much that I was important enough for anyone to notice. I accept that sometimes we all get upset, sometimes you need to vent or rant, and you have every right to do so away from the board, say what you think, get it all off your chest... then let it go before you come back.

I have seen this Us vs Them mentality rear its ugly head before. It has destroyed boards I particularly enjoyed and I would hate to see that happen here, so I hope we can all get past this and put the drama behind us as quickly as possible. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 08:19:11 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Innocent or not, it'd be irresponsible to open the group up to the public without everyone's consent.  I've always felt it's important to *not* give away other people's information, so I'd hope they'd make sure it was okay with all the members.  If anyone's posted personal information (veraobsession mentioned that it's not all talk about ehell), then they shouldn't have that made public without their consent.

If you think about it, we have to be approved for membership on ehell, and there are some sections that are only open to members (like INAH, and I think the meet-up threads might be the same).  I think if we suddenly opened those up for general viewing, there would be some people who wouldn't be pleased.  (I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.)

Perhaps the group could be opened to the moderators or just the Dame then. Surely that would assuage privacy concerns

Facebook is not her turf. It's just not. Not only are there people in the group who have never even been on ehell, the point of it is to not have Ehell rules about discussed topics.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: nrb80 on October 27, 2011, 08:19:45 PM
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry right now.  References to totalitarianism, McCarthyism, and Nazi Germany (what, no reference to Russia / the USSR under Stalin?  China under Mao?  The Khmer Rouge?  - there are so many more potentially less commonly used examples) is just another proof of Godwin's Law.

Moving back to the topic at hand - I think there's so much anger and emotion here that I honestly don't understand.  This is a diversion on the internet, entertainment, hopefully an edifying one, a friendly community, but it's not real life.  I worry that there is over emotional investment in a message board.

As an aside - EHellDame has never said love it or leave it - she's actually far more forgiving / lenient than *any* of the mods, and has always taken appropriately given criticism with good humor and thought.  Disagreement and criticism that is vitriolic, however, is counterproductive.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 08:20:56 PM


Again, the questions were balanced - who do you agree/disagree with, who do you admire/think is unstable.

That's not balanced.  The opposite of "admire"  is "disdain" or "disrespect".  The opposite of "unstable" is "stable".  How is asking anyone if they believe there are unstable people on the forum be considered even remotely edifying? 

Answer Scuba Dog's question.  Are you a member of that group?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 08:21:13 PM
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry right now.  References to totalitarianism, McCarthyism, and Nazi Germany (what, no reference to Russia / the USSR under Stalin?  China under Mao?  The Khmer Rouge?  - there are so many more potentially less commonly used examples) is just another proof of Godwin's Law.

Moving back to the topic at hand - I think there's so much anger and emotion here that I honestly don't understand.  This is a diversion on the internet, entertainment, hopefully an edifying one, a friendly community, but it's not real life.  I worry that there is over emotional investment in a message board.

As an aside - EHellDame has never said love it or leave it - she's actually far more forgiving / lenient than *any* of the mods, and has always taken appropriately given criticism with good humor and thought.  Disagreement and criticism that is vitriolic, however, is counterproductive.


Love the update
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Phoebe on October 27, 2011, 08:22:04 PM
That's true, I'd forgotten about the real names thing. It's too bad we couldn't have one person take screencaps or something and blank out the names, leaving just the screen names.

How is doing this any better than what this secret group has been accused of doing?  Sneaking and snooping, in my book, is just as nasty as snarking behind peoples' backs.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Clara Bow on October 27, 2011, 08:22:53 PM
The evidence suggests otherwise

Considering I'm the only member that has come forward thus far, what evidence are you referring to?

I'll come foward as well. I'm curious about the evidence too.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 08:23:46 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Innocent or not, it'd be irresponsible to open the group up to the public without everyone's consent.  I've always felt it's important to *not* give away other people's information, so I'd hope they'd make sure it was okay with all the members.  If anyone's posted personal information (veraobsession mentioned that it's not all talk about ehell), then they shouldn't have that made public without their consent.

If you think about it, we have to be approved for membership on ehell, and there are some sections that are only open to members (like INAH, and I think the meet-up threads might be the same).  I think if we suddenly opened those up for general viewing, there would be some people who wouldn't be pleased.  (I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.)

Perhaps the group could be opened to the moderators or just the Dame then. Surely that would assuage privacy concerns

Facebook is not her turf. It's just not. Not only are there people in the group who have never even been on ehell, the point of it is to not have Ehell rules about discussed topics.

it may not be her turf, but i assume that the E-Hell FB group was started by, or at least sanctioned by, this forum, the creator, and the mods. 

i don't get why you don't get that forming a "secret" group, to talk mean about the members of this forum, and its "sensei" was a huge insult to the Dame, the mods, and all of the other posters who don't see things the way you, and your group, did.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 08:24:02 PM
The evidence suggests otherwise

Considering I'm the only member that has come forward thus far, what evidence are you referring to?

I'll come foward as well. I'm curious about the evidence too.


This has been shown in this thead multiple times already
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 08:24:27 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Maybe they do have things to fear, maybe they post about stuff they don't want random posters here to see, stuff about their personal lives, money troubles, real names and emails, who knows. Ehell isn't the centre of the universe.

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms Aspasia on October 27, 2011, 08:25:21 PM

Because it's a private group and not everyone in the world's business? Because people who felt very comfortable there gave information about themselves that they wouldn't have given outside of a private group, personal information that is not for public consumption? Why are you so worried about it? It's the internet for heaven's sakes. Not life and death. I can't believe that this is such a big deal.
Can you explain your view further: do you mean that the Facebook details aren't a big deal to you, or EHell, or the internet in general?

Perhaps this wasn't your point, but I'm not willing to minimise cyberbullying.  In my area of the world, it's considered an important issue because of the importance of the internet to young people in particular.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: JadeAngel on October 27, 2011, 08:26:14 PM
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry right now.  References to totalitarianism, McCarthyism, and Nazi Germany (what, no reference to Russia / the USSR under Stalin?  China under Mao?  The Khmer Rouge?

Give us a minute to work it into the discussion...
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Two Ravens on October 27, 2011, 08:26:33 PM
The evidence suggests otherwise

Considering I'm the only member that has come forward thus far, what evidence are you referring to?

I'll come foward as well. I'm curious about the evidence too.

Ehelldame has already said she is not going to reveal the specific evidence.  This isn't a court of law, this is her kingdom.  She doesn't have to provide evidence.

I am surprised how many people think this forum is/should be a democracy.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Miss March on October 27, 2011, 08:26:42 PM
That's true, I'd forgotten about the real names thing. It's too bad we couldn't have one person take screencaps or something and blank out the names, leaving just the screen names.

How is doing this any better than what this secret group has been accused of doing?  Sneaking and snooping, in my book, is just as nasty as snarking behind peoples' backs.

This kind of feels like when a woman checks her husband's emails and finds out that he was cheating on her, and the husband keeps trying to turn it back on her and say "But I can't believe you read my emails! You snooped on me!" rather then owning up to the fact that he was busted doing something wrong.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 27, 2011, 08:27:19 PM
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry right now.  References to totalitarianism, McCarthyism, and Nazi Germany (what, no reference to Russia / the USSR under Stalin?  China under Mao?  The Khmer Rouge?

Give us a minute to work it into the discussion...

 ;D
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lilgremlin on October 27, 2011, 08:28:50 PM
No takers on my suggestion of opening the FB page to the public? Shouldn't be an issue if it's oh so innocent as some proclaim.

So I'm still waiting.....

if there's nothing to fear, if it's as innocent a group as it is being presented, i think it's an excellent idea.

Innocent or not, it'd be irresponsible to open the group up to the public without everyone's consent.  I've always felt it's important to *not* give away other people's information, so I'd hope they'd make sure it was okay with all the members.  If anyone's posted personal information (veraobsession mentioned that it's not all talk about ehell), then they shouldn't have that made public without their consent.

If you think about it, we have to be approved for membership on ehell, and there are some sections that are only open to members (like INAH, and I think the meet-up threads might be the same).  I think if we suddenly opened those up for general viewing, there would be some people who wouldn't be pleased.  (I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.)

Perhaps the group could be opened to the moderators or just the Dame then. Surely that would assuage privacy concerns

Facebook is not her turf. It's just not. Not only are there people in the group who have never even been on ehell, the point of it is to not have Ehell rules about discussed topics.

it may not be her turf, but i assume that the E-Hell FB group was started by, or at least sanctioned by, this forum, the creator, and the mods. 

i don't get why you don't get that forming a "secret" group, to talk mean about the members of this forum, and its "sensei" was a huge insult to the Dame, the mods, and all of the other posters who don't see things the way you, and your group, did.

For the last time, it was not formed to talk "mean" about anyone. The Dame can mod her ehell facebook page, it's hers, it was created and sanctioned by ehell for ehell. This one is not. It doesn't even have ehell in the name, description, or "links" section. It's not about ehell. There are over 150 members. A dozen or so being nonehell members.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 08:29:27 PM
The evidence suggests otherwise

Considering I'm the only member that has come forward thus far, what evidence are you referring to?

I'll come foward as well. I'm curious about the evidence too.

Ehelldame has already said she is not going to reveal the specific evidence.

so i'll post, for the fifth time, the link to yesterday's post that explained why we have mass bannings today.

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 27, 2011, 08:30:19 PM


Again, the questions were balanced - who do you agree/disagree with, who do you admire/think is unstable.

That's not balanced.  The opposite of "admire"  is "disdain" or "disrespect".  The opposite of "unstable" is "stable".  How is asking anyone if they believe there are unstable people on the forum be considered even remotely edifying? 

Answer Scuba Dog's question.  Are you a member of that group?

i have answered it twice already in this very thread but here we go again, I am not a member of the group you, Ehelldame, have been referring to.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Phoebe on October 27, 2011, 08:31:18 PM
That's true, I'd forgotten about the real names thing. It's too bad we couldn't have one person take screencaps or something and blank out the names, leaving just the screen names.

 
How is doing this any better than what this secret group has been accused of doing?  Sneaking and snooping, in my book, is just as nasty as snarking behind peoples' backs.

This kind of feels like when a woman checks her husband's emails and finds out that he was cheating on her, and the husband keeps trying to turn it back on her and say "But I can't believe you read my emails! You snooped on me!" rather then owning up to the fact that he was busted doing something wrong.

Really?  This is comparable to a cheating spouse?  Any of us can wash our hands of Ehell, FB, and the internet in general at any time and just go on with life.  Cheating spouses are a bit more serious.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Gabrielle on October 27, 2011, 08:32:32 PM
[snip]

For the last time, it was not formed to talk "mean" about anyone. The Dame can mod her ehell facebook page, it's hers, it was created and sanctioned by ehell for ehell. This one is not. It doesn't even have ehell in the name, description, or "links" section. It's not about ehell. There are over 150 members. A dozen or so being nonehell members.

Then if it's so unrelated to eHell, then why was commenting the perceived stability of other posters a membership criteron?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 08:32:54 PM


Again, the questions were balanced - who do you agree/disagree with, who do you admire/think is unstable.

That's not balanced.  The opposite of "admire"  is "disdain" or "disrespect".  The opposite of "unstable" is "stable".  How is asking anyone if they believe there are unstable people on the forum be considered even remotely edifying? 

Answer Scuba Dog's question.  Are you a member of that group?

i have answered it twice already in this very thread but here we go again, I am not a member of the group you, Ehelldame, have been referring to.

i would think that since you refuse to accept War_Doc's explanation about a comment that offended you, when he has explained it over and over, you would not mind being asked to answer the same question over and over.  cuts both ways.  if you can ask multiple times, you can be asked multiple times to answer.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 27, 2011, 08:33:59 PM
[snip]

For the last time, it was not formed to talk "mean" about anyone. The Dame can mod her ehell facebook page, it's hers, it was created and sanctioned by ehell for ehell. This one is not. It doesn't even have ehell in the name, description, or "links" section. It's not about ehell. There are over 150 members. A dozen or so being nonehell members.

Then if it's so unrelated to eHell, then why was commenting the perceived stability of other posters a membership criteron?

maybe it's like the Fight Club?  with rule #1 and 2, and everything?  ;D
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 09:14:20 PM
Still in va has the link

and i am now posting it for the fourth time in this thread

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=107408.msg2550202#msg2550202

read it or don't, it matters not a bit to me.  but it's there.  how the Dame arrived at these bannings is there.

So the entire group of being punished (banned) for the message exchange between 2? I'd like to know how a topic about tea & cookies (literally) or about the house someone is trying to buy and could everyone keep their fingers crossed or me talking about my kids halloween costumes is cause for someone to be banned.

Vera,  you've been one of my favorite posters over the years but please, you may have been ignorant but that does not mean the events did not happen.  I know there was a thread or chat in the secret group on or about June 30th in which members had a betting pool as to who would be banned next in Ehell with members egging each other on to post in Ehell.  A regular member of this forum warned them that has been ban worthy behavior in the past and this person was kicked out of the group for that.  I have the PM in which this person confirms this to me after I began asking questions.   

And are you sure we are talking about the same FB group?  There are two, one open and one private with the former being just as benign you claim. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 27, 2011, 10:06:44 PM
Why are you so worried about it? It's the internet for heaven's sakes. Not life and death. I can't believe that this is such a big deal.

Oh, my.  That elicited the biggest laugh of the day!  Interesting words coming from someone who sent me two, or was it three, unsolicited (and ignored), lengthy, bombastic, insulting good-bye-cruel-forum diatribes about the evils of Ehell and the mods.   I can't believe EHell is such a big deal for you.  This isn't life or death. 

Why are you still here?  You said you were never coming back.  Walk away.  Delight in the scent of freshly ground coffee, marvel at the colors in an autumn leaf,  go fly a kite in a crystal blue sky.  Life is too short to be so discontent. 

Or do I need to help you go find happiness and content somewhere else? 

Oh, I see my less forgiving and intolerant mods have locked the thread. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Wordgeek on October 27, 2011, 10:31:43 PM
...and also moved it to the staff folder.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ticia on October 27, 2011, 11:52:00 PM
Yes, that was me,sorry, I've been sewing Halloween costumes all day and came to the forum and saw reported posts galore. I locked it and them moved it to try and read through to see what was going on... Moved it back and unlocked it because I think it can be very illuminating to see the kind of hate we've been dealing with.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: 567Kate on October 27, 2011, 11:58:41 PM
Yes, that was me,sorry, I've been sewing Halloween costumes all day and came to the forum and saw reported posts galore. I locked it and them moved it to try and read through to see what was going on... Moved it back and unlocked it because I think it can be very illuminating to see the kind of hate we've been dealing with.

It's probably just as well that everyone had to take a Coke break!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 27, 2011, 11:59:34 PM
Yes, that was me,sorry, I've been sewing Halloween costumes all day and came to the forum and saw reported posts galore. I locked it and them moved it to try and read through to see what was going on... Moved it back and unlocked it because I think it can be very illuminating to see the kind of hate we've been dealing with.

It's probably just as well that everyone had to take a Coke break!

No time to have a flame war tonight--I'm from St. Louis.  ;D
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ticia on October 28, 2011, 12:07:00 AM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

I believe I can answer this question. A thread about autism had 1 person who posted about vaccinations. Someone pointed out that that could get the thread closed so *that poster* edited her post and took out the bit about vaccinations. Unfortunately, someone else quoted that post and posted a long, link filled, post about vaccinations. Since the original post had been deleted *by the person who posted it,* I thought it would be simpler for all involved to remove the second post. Unfortunately, I failed to adequately explain my reasoning behind deleting the post, for which I do feel bad and I apologize. I was in a hurry and typed up a very short post trying to hurriedly explain why the post had been removed. I then went off and did stuff in real life. When I returned to the forum, the thread had gotten out of control and another mod locked it.


Edited to change a "bed" into "bad"... I think that's a hint that I need to go sleep now.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ceallach on October 28, 2011, 12:10:09 AM
Yes, that was me,sorry, I've been sewing Halloween costumes all day and came to the forum and saw reported posts galore. I locked it and them moved it to try and read through to see what was going on... Moved it back and unlocked it because I think it can be very illuminating to see the kind of hate we've been dealing with.

I have to say, as far as I can tell, you mods are all waaaay too busy to have engaged in any kind of planned and orchestrated mission of favouritism or nefarious oppression! ;D    Recently, just dealing with this type of thread alone could occupy a paid part-time employee and earn their keep.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 28, 2011, 12:42:52 AM
Tricia don't feel bad. that topic had no business being on ehell ever. That topic is flame war number one. Forgot to mention thanks for bringing the thread back.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: iradney on October 28, 2011, 01:40:32 AM
I'm seeing a good number of "interesting assumptions" from members here. At the forum I help mod, we also get piqued members demanding we "delete their account". We don't. If they never logon again (which doesn't happen if they're banned), then their accounts will eventually be deleted during an "unused/inactive account" purge.

We also have a rule about "don't stir the pot and bring it back to the site". Members are actively discouraged from posting inflammatory posts on other sites that can be linked back to our site. We've had some members be "net stalked" by IRL people, who would try to troll and flame them - and as mods, it is our duty to protect our members from such treatment. I'm pretty sure that the same practice is done here.

I have by no means been a perfect poster, and I have not always agreed with the mods, and I have yet to be banned.

As mentioned by previous members, if you are a member of a group who has decided to bully others, even if you don't participate in the bullying, if you have witnessed it and done nothing about it, then you are just as guilty as the bullies. And I say this as someone who was friends with a bully in high school, witnessed her bullying and did nothing about it. To this day, I wish I could go back and stand up to her, or tell someone about her behaviour.

At the forum I mod, we've also had a number of posters who, after banning, would repeatedly send messages alternatively begging for explanations/leniency and hate filled venom. Bear in mind that this is normally after weeks and months of repeated PMs, warnings etc

EHell is EDame's house. She pays for it, she runs it, she decorates it. She graciously allows us into her house, with certain reasonable rules. After all, if you let people into your house, you would expect them to not spit on the floor, pee on the curtains, jump on the couches etc. If she asks you to stop swinging the iron around like a lasso, and you don't, she has every right to tell you to leave. Hell, she could say that if you want to continue being a member here, you must change your avatar to a purple polka dotted elephant or be banned. Thankfully she's not that unreasonable. She is merely asking that you carry yourself with grace, maturity and dignity in her house.

I do admit that I would like some more transparency with regards to the modding, but as mentioned before: the mods are busy. They have lives and committments and jobs and families and chores. Sometimes all they may have time for is skimming over the reported posts, and locking a thread down before it turns into a warzone. They might try and get back to it later, but life happens, and you forget. They're human. I can't fault them for being human.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Kiwichick on October 28, 2011, 01:56:12 AM


Again, the questions were balanced - who do you agree/disagree with, who do you admire/think is unstable.

That's not balanced.  The opposite of "admire"  is "disdain" or "disrespect".  The opposite of "unstable" is "stable".  How is asking anyone if they believe there are unstable people on the forum be considered even remotely edifying? 

Answer Scuba Dog's question.  Are you a member of that group?

i have answered it twice already in this very thread but here we go again, I am not a member of the group you, Ehelldame, have been referring to.

i would think that since you refuse to accept War_Doc's explanation about a comment that offended you, when he has explained it over and over, you would not mind being asked to answer the same question over and over.  cuts both ways.  if you can ask multiple times, you can be asked multiple times to answer.

Only I didn't ask multiple times, please don't put words in my mouth.

I don't mind the Dame asking me again.  I was merely pointing out I had answered it twice already, I thought the tone of her post indicated that I had avoided the question.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MariaE on October 28, 2011, 01:58:28 AM
Waking up to a 24-page thread is a sure-fire way to make me late for work.

I've seen things blow up before - I'm active on LJ, and the trolls and sockpuppetry that has gone on there through the years is bewildering. I get taken in each and every time. Some of my dearest friends, who've never been anything other than wonderful and supportive towards me have been outed as trolls and bullies of the worst kind. I don't get it - I really don't.

I want to thank the mods for letting this thread be unlocked and visible. I don't know about anybody else, but after the unveiling of the 'sensei' post day before yesterday (DK time), I was shocked and somewhat in a state of denial, and this thread has been illuminating and - in some ways - cathartic. I know it could very easily have been locked or deleted ages ago, and I'm grateful that it's not.

I'm with the PPs in feeling kind of wary that I had no idea what was going on. I'm not surprised I wasn't contacted for 'recruiting' (I tend to be easily forgettable - meant in a good way, not self-pitying, just couldn't find a better English word for it :) ), but I'm slightly surprised that it ran that deep without me catching on to any of the ripples. Just goes to show what I wrote in the second paragraph - I'm clueless.

While I'm extremely surprised by some of the bannings, I'm willing to trust that the mods acted on evidence rather than a hunch or maliciously pointed fingers. Am I curious about the evidence? Of course - I'd always like to see for myself and make my own decisions rather than trusting the word of others (no disrespect intended - it's not that I don't trust the mods, it's just human nature I assume). Am I entitled to the evidence? Absolutely not! And I applaud EhellDame for only going forth with evidence she's been allowed to use, even in the face of such mistrust and discontent.

I hope the drama will quiet down after this.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Cracea on October 28, 2011, 02:16:12 AM
I'd like to add some perspective as a frequent lurker. I've been registered here for going on 4 years, and lurked without registering before that.

Some of the banned posters mentioned are posters I've really enjoyed and sometimes admired. Which is why it's been so noticeable to me the last few months that their posting styles have gotten snarkier.

An example: A few weeks ago a couple of posters were complaining about Master Edward's comments about things he doesn't like. Now Edward's never been anything but concise and blunt, and I pretty frequently don't agree with him, but his style is his own, and I enjoy getting his viewpoint. Around this time he started a thread in the Entertainment section about "Tanked":

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102731.0

As you can see, some of the immediate comments were of the "it's boring", "I don't like it", "never heard of it" variety - the very things some of these posters had been complaining about Edward doing. Posters I really liked were doing what I think we'd call "retaliatory rudeness". It was pretty obvious, and not pretty. That's just one example, but it's been popping up in a lot of places, and more and more frequently.

If any of you who were banned are reading - I don't think you started out to be mean, or bullying. I think you cared about this forum, and saw what you perceived as people who were not really helpful. Honestly, though, there's been a meanness to some of you lately that just wasn't there before, a way of piling on people you obviously don't like, of hammering people in the "Hugs" section, and just general snarkiness. I know I've been unwilling to post outside of Coffee Break or the like, just in case I end up in the middle of one of the blow ups.

I don't remember who posted about the site's stats, but I think a big part of that is the....I don't know....attitude? of some of you, that's gotten so dark. It makes newbies afraid to post for fear of being labelled trolls, and others of us just not wanting to deal with the drama. I hesitated even to post this, but I've really enjoyed this site and the variety of people whose insights I get to share. I'm really sorry some posters don't see that they are/were a part of the problem they thought they were taking care of.

Kimberly
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Spoder on October 28, 2011, 02:40:30 AM
Wow. My mind is boggling right now.

Let me get this straight (from what I've cobbled together from this thread, and some of the threads linked within it): there is a public FB group and a secret FB group. The secret group has recruited eHell members by asking them about who they like/dislike on the forum. Some members of the group have also incited group trolling - as in, they have come to the forum en masse to harass members they don't like. This group has over 100 members, not all of whom have been associated with the backstabbing/trolling, but only one of whom reported what was going on.

Correct?

If so, I am gobsmacked. Leaving aside what people should or shouldn't do on the internet, I just can't imagine receiving a communication like the one the Dame reposted in another thread ('Name three posters you dislike', etc), and thinking, 'Woohoo, I'd love to join that!'.  ??? This sounds like something people did at my Female Dog all-girls highschool - but at least we were teenagers. This is plain sad. Do grown adults really have so little to do, that they create an internet group to Female Dog about virtual strangers in another internet group?

Truly pathetic.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: DuBois on October 28, 2011, 02:46:09 AM
Wow. My mind is boggling right now.

Let me get this straight (from what I've cobbled together from this thread, and some of the threads linked within it): there is a public FB group and a secret FB group. The secret group has recruited eHell members by asking them about who they like/dislike on the forum. Some members of the group have also incited group trolling - as in, they have come to the forum en masse to harass members they don't like. This group has over 100 members, not all of whom have been associated with the backstabbing/trolling, but only one of whom reported what was going on.

Correct?

If so, I am gobsmacked. Leaving aside what people should or shouldn't do on the internet, I just can't imagine receiving a communication like the one the Dame reposted in another thread ('Name three posters you dislike', etc), and thinking, 'Woohoo, I'd love to join that!'.  ??? This sounds like something people did at my Female Dog all-girls highschool - but at least we were teenagers. This is plain sad. Do grown adults really have so little to do, that they create an internet group to Female Dog about virtual strangers in another internet group?

Truly pathetic.

Exactly my feelings on the matter. It is pathetic, but it does explain a lot of the snark and ill feeling that has been flying around. If people are being bullied and judged, and their posts twisted to seem false, that has to end, and I'm glad that the Dame has it in hand. I didn't join a group that was running auditons for 'mean girls'. Let's hope the board comes back stronger after the 'new broom'.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: furrcats on October 28, 2011, 02:47:05 AM
Mine too
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lollylegs on October 28, 2011, 02:52:04 AM
Add to that the bannings of those who have publicly spoken against mod decisions, who have had posts deleted for bringing scientifically relevant facts into discussions, and a whole host of other reasons.

Can you provide examples of the bolded?

I believe I can answer this question. A thread about autism had 1 person who posted about vaccinations. Someone pointed out that that could get the thread closed so *that poster* edited her post and took out the bit about vaccinations. Unfortunately, someone else quoted that post and posted a long, link filled, post about vaccinations. Since the original post had been deleted *by the person who posted it,* I thought it would be simpler for all involved to remove the second post. Unfortunately, I failed to adequately explain my reasoning behind deleting the post, for which I do feel bad and I apologize. I was in a hurry and typed up a very short post trying to hurriedly explain why the post had been removed. I then went off and did stuff in real life. When I returned to the forum, the thread had gotten out of control and another mod locked it.


Edited to change a "bed" into "bad"... I think that's a hint that I need to go sleep now.

I'm glad that this was brought up because it's been on my mind since all this started. I got caught up in that, trying to defend Ticia's decision. Not only should I have not spoken on behalf of someone, I also think I inadvertantly stirred the pot a bit there (oh the irony of causing a thread derailment by trying to prevent a thread derailment). So I'm sorry about that and lesson learned.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: The Opinionator on October 28, 2011, 04:18:12 AM
Let me dispel one more misconception about this oh, so secret group - it was linked on ehell in its early days. It was never created to bash anyone. I'm coming up as a member. I have nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes we got frustrated with seeing the same behaviour over and over again from some posters and we talked about it. Not unlike how we talk about people's behaviour in the SS thread. "bashing" an action and bashing a poster are two different things.

I'm happy to try and clarify and shed some more light on the issue from my perspective. However, I won't have a computer until Sunday evening and posting from my phone is annoying. If I don't get banned for coming forwards and this thread is still here, I will return to it then..
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: The Opinionator on October 28, 2011, 04:36:34 AM
Oh, and by behaviour I mean people whining about the same things constantly and never taking any of the advice offered.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: DuBois on October 28, 2011, 04:43:00 AM
Oh, and by behaviour I mean people whining about the same things constantly and never taking any of the advice offered.

Surely an option would just be to ignore ??? I have no comprehension of why anyone would need to start an FB group just to complain about people not taking advice, it seems completely counterintuitive to me. Just don't give those people advice!

ETA. I hope I'm not violating anything when I say that there are posters who I notice are piled on more than others, which frankly makes me think very little of the pilers. Some people who might even come accross as a little fragile are actually attacked quite meanly on a routine basis, and if this group was at the bottom of that, then I am all too glad to see it routed out. It would seem that some people have a substansial sense of entitlement to how people express themselves as they take advice, and I'm glad that this should not be tolerated.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Wordgeek on October 28, 2011, 04:49:07 AM
Let me dispel one more misconception about this oh, so secret group - it was linked on ehell in its early days. It was never created to bash anyone. I'm coming up as a member. I have nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes we got frustrated with seeing the same behaviour over and over again from some posters and we talked about it. Not unlike how we talk about people's behaviour in the SS thread. "bashing" an action and bashing a poster are two different things.

I'm happy to try and clarify and shed some more light on the issue from my perspective. However, I won't have a computer until Sunday evening and posting from my phone is annoying. If I don't get banned for coming forwards and this thread is still here, I will return to it then..

Excellent!  Open the group to public view and let people make their own judgments.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: The Opinionator on October 28, 2011, 04:54:15 AM
Gahr, it was not created to bash anyone. We have always been encouraged to create friendships off board. The group was that. Someone started a fb thread and someone else created a group so we could have a place where we all were and we could chat.

Wordgeek, I'm sorry, but that is not my call to make. While I'm not un any way opposed to the group being opened, there are plenty of people who don't want their personal info out there for everyone to see, especially since some medical issues have been discussed.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: DuBois on October 28, 2011, 05:01:37 AM
Gahr, it was not created to bash anyone. We have always been encouraged to create friendships off board. The group was that. Someone started a fb thread and someone else created a group so we could have a place where we all were and we could chat.

Wordgeek, I'm sorry, but that is not my call to make. While I'm not un any way opposed to the group being opened, there are plenty of people who don't want their personal info out there for everyone to see, especially since some medical issues have been discussed.

It may well have been created with innocent intent, but the PM that Scuba_Dog shared shows that it had developed beyond that. That is not to say that everyone in the group was bad, but it does suggest that some had toxic and nefarious intent.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Amava on October 28, 2011, 05:28:59 AM
I would love to give the group the benefit of the doubt, because there seem to be some people part of it whose posts I really liked.

But, apologies, when I see something like this:

Quote
Quote from: Wry Exchange on October 05, 2011, 06:50:09 PM
Hi, I heard you were asking about a chat group or friends group?  Can you tell me a bit about yourself, and the ehell names of 3 or 4 posters you agree with, and 3 or 4 posters you disagree with , a few that you think they're not too stable, and a few you admire.
Regards,
Vicki.

Quote from: Wry Exchange on October 05, 2011, 08:01:16 PM
Well, You have over 3,000 posts.   No one stands out that you agree with, or that you shake your head at?  There is a group, but it's not an etiquette group at all.   We'd just like to get a sense of who you are, and if you'd fit in.
that really raises questions.
I just can't imagine how in the world it would be okay to ask questions like that to someone in order to see whether they'd "fit in".

I'm also quite annoyed by the "sensei" thread, where a very skewed interpretation of the facts was given, just to trick people into agreeing that the sensei was "abusing her power", "overbearing", "bonkers", etc. It was looking for validation, without telling the whole truth. Especially when there was talk of the sensei "hacking into someone's phone". Nobody hacked anything. The mods/admin reacted to things that were *reported* to them.
**Edited to add: Not to mention how disrespectful it was to make that thread here on the forum. If a guest in my house delighted the others with a thinly veiled cautionary tale of "how awful they had been treated by me", they would certainly not be invited back.  End edit **


And I strongly stand behind the opinion that a website is not like a country or a public property where democracy must rule. In my opinion, a forum is like someone's house. We are the guests. E-Hell Dame is the owner of the house.

Inspired by the sensei thread, I could write up a story that would go something like:

"Hello E-hellions,
For a long time, I have regularly been holding open house for a large group of people. Lately, some of these people have been meeting up in different places - which, in itself, is none of my business. However, some people I trust have been telling me that in these seperate group meetings, more and more badmouthing has been going on, about me and about others of my guests and their behaviour at our gatherings. Would it be okay for me to not invite the badmouthers back to my house, for the sake of my other guests?"

Look, I totally agree that what people do in their private life is nobody else's business - until they *make* it someone else's business by harming others.
I am a teacher and I basically have no business with what children do in their spare time, which some of them spend together. But in cases where I get a suspicion that children use their "private meetings" to make plans to bully others in my class or in the school, it becomes my business, and I act upon it. Not by throwing them out of the school, of course, even if that was in my power I wouldn't do it, but by educating them - sternly - about the consequences of bullying. That's my job. It is however not E-Hell Dame's job to educate people about bullying. And nobody here is a child who doesn't know any better.

What I'm trying to say is that it is indeed none of E-Hell Dame's business what we do in our spare time until we *make* it her business by influencing her community in a negative way.  And sorry but talking behind other members' back IS influencing the community in a bad way, whether the group was created for that purpose or not. There is no such thing as benign gossiping. None.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: StarFaerie on October 28, 2011, 05:59:12 AM
I will, in the interest of clarification, say that Rainhadotexugo did contact me to clarify what happened with the duplicate account.  Schmoopie created the account for herself but the IP address that showed up is one that Rain has used as well when at Schmoopie's house.   A very plausible explanation and certainly worthy of re-examining lifting the ban.

But unfortunately Rain didn't wait to hear from me and proceeded to splat the news of her ban to friends who promptly repeated the news as well as post herself about it on the openly.   My reply to her was to express regret that she did not wait to quietly work this out with me so that no one was the wiser, including mods, but instead choose indiscretion to create more public drama.  I'm tired of the drama so the ban stays. 

People, if you've been gagged or banned and you think it was unfair, contact me privately.  I won't lift a finger to help you if you go traipsing around announcing you've been banned.  Discretion is your friend.  Embrace it. Enjoy it.  It can save you boatloads of heartache and embarrassment.

Can I just say that I disagree with this as a reason for retaining the ban. It's your site and you may do with it as you wish, but this seems like it's stubbornness and even a bit vindictive to me. Retaining a ban just because she spoke out about her ban? Is that really the kind of behaviour we would want people to show? I would suggest that discretion on your part would have been good here, by discretely reinstating her and apologising to her privately for the error, maybe with a request that she not discuss it too widely. Or standing up and saying that the ban stays merely because she was a member of the group would have seemed fine to me too. But this? It leaves a bit of a bad taste. JMHO though and YMMV.

Disclaimer: I do not know Raina, I was not involved in the group, nor did I have any knowledge of it. I love eHell, though I don't post much because I have found that people tend to jump on posters who disagree. I do hope that the actions of the mods here will help to mitigate that and I do not entirely disagree with all their actions here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: whoknows on October 28, 2011, 06:05:30 AM
Let me dispel one more misconception about this oh, so secret group - it was linked on ehell in its early days. It was never created to bash anyone. I'm coming up as a member. I have nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes we got frustrated with seeing the same behaviour over and over again from some posters and we talked about it. Not unlike how we talk about people's behaviour in the SS thread. "bashing" an action and bashing a poster are two different things.

I'm happy to try and clarify and shed some more light on the issue from my perspective. However, I won't have a computer until Sunday evening and posting from my phone is annoying. If I don't get banned for coming forwards and this thread is still here, I will return to it then..

Excellent!  Open the group to public view and let people make their own judgments.

I really don't think appropriate, would you like access to the conversations I have with my DH about threads and posters? Isn't it the same?

How is this request any different than wanting to know what I talk to my friends about chatting over coffee? Or someone coming up to me IRL and demanding to see my diary to see if I wrote about them? Or demanding to go through my knicker drawer?

What I do in my free time is my choice, as long as it is not illegal no-one can say anything not even my boss! I really enjoy ehell and spend a lot of time here, but i also spend a lot of time in the other group. it is fun, we talk about allsorts including cooking, relationship issues, ehell; just as I would with DH or friends.

At the beginning as someone else said it was like going off to college and getting a bit wild but it calmed down, and those who didn't either choose to leave or were asked to leave.

I don't usually pay attention to user name but when you do, it is easy to see that people are posting the same thing over but don't take the advice or appear to be trolls with outrageous storie. I haven't reported people because it is just the internet at the end of the day but I can see why people get upset as people who pray on peoples emotions or try to antagonise people are not overtly repremanded but posters who question them are told off/gagged etc.

As to the question wry exchange asked, they might have been worded badly, but I u have a new friends you ask do u like X tv show or X politician to see if are on the same wavelength. Are these questions not the same, when ur only point of reference is a shared forum and the people on it. Scuba dog was not recruited she asked about another forum as she appears to be unhappy here.

I don't know what will happen next but I miss the ehell I joined.

Take care all xx

ETA: correct spelling mistakes I missed
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Aeris on October 28, 2011, 06:37:53 AM
Wow. You stop obsessively reading ehell for a few days and bam, the world explodes.

I have to admit, the whole situation is deeply troubling to me. I have to echo a previous poster that, honestly, neither side is coming out of this smelling like roses in this.

Obviously, there's a lot of information I don't know, and a lot of information that is surely none of my business. But the accusations and insinuations, on both sides are...deeply concerning.

If it is true that a group of people were acting in a concerted fashion to dogpile disliked posters, provoke, over-report (w/ vitriol), and otherwise cyberbully - then I am saddened and disturbed. Anyone directly engaging in such behavior is surely quite rightly banned. I won't expound at length on my sadness on that subject, just because I think all of the prior comments about 'mean girls', etc, are spot on and don't need my less eloquent rehashing.

But I am also deeply bothered by the notion that has been expressed here by a few posters, and seems to be alluded to by some of the mods, that merely being a member of an outside group, some of whose members engaged in bad acts, makes you bannable. I sincerely hope that is not what has happened here.

While I can agree that if a group existed solely and expressly for such 'bad act' purposes, membership alone may indeed be indicative. However, if the group's express purpose was something altogether different, and only a few members of this group began to behave badly - other members of that group might not even have *known* about the bad acts.

If I were to join a facebook group, I would not consider myself automatically responsible for everything that other members of that group do, or what they post in that group (or anywhere else). If I were *specifically* aware that members were cyberbullying someone, I would likely say something. However, it's far more likely that if some members were engaging in snarky drama I didn't care about, I would start skimming over or ignoring those posts/members. If the entire group gave over to that kind of drama, I would just excuse myself.

And before anyone asks, no, I am not a member, nor have I ever been a member, of the super secret facebook group. I'm rather allergic to facebook. (Which is, incidentally, why it is quite easy for me to imagine joining a group, then not logging into facebook for 2 months and having absolutely no earthly idea what's being posted in that group).

The idea that one might be banned from ehell simply by being a member of a group in which some other members committed bad acts - I am deeply, deeply bothered by this notion. This is not how I would hope that moderation decisions at ehell are made.

I sincerely hope that is *not* what has happened here, and fully admit that I don't really understand if it was. I would hope that each person banned has been banned because they personally were involved in bad acts, and not simply 'guilt by association', or 'guilt by proximity'.

A few posters and more than one mod have called for the facebook group to be opened up to public perusal. While this seems like a good way, on its face, to determine the true nature of the group, I can see some significant and completely legitimate reasons why the members of this group might not be willing to do this - even if the group is entirely innocuous (or if any bad behavior was limited to a few members). In all likelihood, members of that group posted a decent amount of personal information that they only felt comfortable sharing *because* it was a private group. There may be personal sexual information, legal information, medical information, posted there and attached to people's real and full names.

You cannot expect for people to be willing to have that kind of information suddenly publicly available to the entirety of the internet simply to prove what the nature of the group is. That is surely not a reasonable or fair request.

******

I will also say that I'm extremely disturbed by the situation of Rainha's banning. If I am understanding Ehelldame correctly, Rainha was essentially banned by accident, as a result of a technological blip, which Ehelldame herself acknowledges. However, for the sole reason that Rainha apparently told a friend that she had apparently been banned, she will now remain banned.

I do not understand this reasoning, and it concerns me. If an accidentally banned poster immediately fired off a vitriolic rant at a mod or EHD, I would completely understand retaining the ban for the new 'bad act'. Or if the banned poster blogged or posted public vitriol somewhere. But, if I'm understanding EHD correctly, and I admit I may not be, Rainha did not fire off any public or private vitriol. What EHD's post appears to say is simply that she told friends she had been banned.

I...did not realize that in itself was a bannable offense.

This is quite strange to me - if I were banned or gagged from Ehell, I'm quite sure I would discuss such a thing with my friends and boyfriend. Wouldn't many of us? Particularly if we were not entirely sure why we had been banned/gagged in the first place? And if our friends IRL included ehellions, wouldn't it be natural to discuss it with them?

I understand the frustration EHD must be feeling at all the drama, and this must just seem like yet one more piece of it, but this ban in particular, from what EHD herself has said of it, just seems entirely...problematic.

This whole situation makes me really, really sad.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MariaE on October 28, 2011, 06:41:11 AM
Well said, Aeris. I completely agree.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 06:45:52 AM
Gahr, it was not created to bash anyone. We have always been encouraged to create friendships off board. The group was that. Someone started a fb thread and someone else created a group so we could have a place where we all were and we could chat.

I think we need to make sure people understand that there are two Facebook groups.  One is open and one is private.  Neither of these are official spin-offs of Ehell although a few people have privately PMed to say they were under the impression the private one was.  There is an Ehell *page* which is an Ehell sanctioned site on Facebook.  The link to the Ehell page on Facebook can be found on the site's main page in the side bar. 

The question arises as to which Facebook group was really started as a benign place for Ehellions to meet and greet.  I'm betting it was the open group which predates the private one.   The Chat feature only shows those people who are friended with you, not every member of the group so privacy to discuss personal matters has always been a feature of the open group. 

Quote
Wordgeek, I'm sorry, but that is not my call to make. While I'm not un any way opposed to the group being opened, there are plenty of people who don't want their personal info out there for everyone to see, especially since some medical issues have been discussed.

That is unfortunate and foolish that they shared personal information with so many people  who could not all have possibly been close friends.   
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: POF on October 28, 2011, 06:53:18 AM
I've working 14 hour days and then going about my usual busy life with kids, parents, friends etc.

Logged in to EHELL this AM .... and I am absolutely shocked at everything.  But not surprised. Something was up .... and I never knew what .... but I saw some levels of meanness - that never really made sense.

I am not going to say I agree with all the rules ( I never do anywhere :) ). But this is E-Hell Dames forum.  Its her way or the highway.

I appreciate having this forum as a bit of recreation, source of advice and just as an internet playground.

Thanks Dame and the Mods.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: The Opinionator on October 28, 2011, 06:56:40 AM
It was the now private one. I can tell you the exact thread in which it was linked. As I've said, give me until Sunday evening. I don't know if moderators have access to messages posters have deleted, but I had posted a shorter version of he link so if you do, feel free to go through my deleted posts and fine it. I'll explain the reason for the deleyion when in at a computer.

I know about the official group. In fact I'm one if the admins after the previous one flounced.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 28, 2011, 06:57:02 AM
What EHD's post appears to say is simply that she told friends she had been banned.

I...did not realize that in itself was a bannable offense.

This is quite strange to me - if I were banned or gagged from Ehell, I'm quite sure I would discuss such a thing with my friends and boyfriend. Wouldn't many of us? Particularly if we were not entirely sure why we had been banned/gagged in the first place? And if our friends IRL included ehellions, wouldn't it be natural to discuss it with them?

Same here, actually. I get the idea from the Dame's posts that she sees getting banned as something so deeply shameful that it must be kept secret, but I never would have thought of it that way. I'd definitely talk it over with some friends.

And I agree about not always knowing everything that goes on in a FB group, too. I was on the one for my hometown, and there were a few racist trolls on there. I, and others, dealt with these jerks through the channels of that group. But it was such a high-volume group that most people didn't even put it in their feed--they removed it from their feed and just went directly to that group when they felt like reading it. It would have been easy for a member to never even see a racist post or know that one had been made, let alone report it to anyone. The idiots were one or two among hundreds.

I mean, I don't see every post at Ehell either, and I don't feel obligated to leave Ehell because there have been a few deeply distasteful posters (prejudiced trolls etc., not just people I don't like) over the years.

The email exchange is deeply troubling but I don't know if it was isolated or not. ETA: I guess when I'm saying is, every group has its trolls. The question is, were the "mean girls" that group's trolls, or were they representative of it? The fact that one of them was approving a member doesn't necessarily say anything. A lot of FB groups are set up so that any member can add people.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ygraine on October 28, 2011, 07:05:43 AM
Just want to throw my two cents in...
 I had absolutely no idea that all of this was going on behind the scenes.  I attempted to log into EHell on this past Monday, and found, to my utter astonishment, I had been banned.  I couldn't for the life of me understand why, and contacted a few ehellions I knew from a game we all play if they had Miss Jeanne's e-mail address so that I could contact her and find out why.   While waiting for a reply from them, I had the brilliant idea of contacting her via the blog.  I had an incredibly quick, polite and apologetic response from her, rectifying the situation.   For me, no harm, no foul, except for a few hours of "E Hell Withdrawal".   Have any of the "bannees" asked Miss Jeanne for an explanation? 
 I, too, have noticed that the tone of some of the posters was becoming less than polite, but since I truly hate confrontation (but will engage if needed), I stayed away, trusting that the mods would handle it.  I was saddened by my decision to do so, especially since it came during a time I really wanted to post in the INAH section about a horrible situation going on in my little life.  I needed (and still need) some impartial, but compassionate, kindly advice on this situation, but didn't want to set myself up for the probable responses I would receive.  What happened to the forum I love so dearly?
 I will POD  the advice/resposes to PPs - It's Miss Jeanne's forum - if you don't like the rules, leave.  If you don't like a particular topic, stay out of it.  To also quote Thumper, "If you can't say something nice..."  I don't mean that you cannot disagree, but it can and should be done respectfully. 
 I won't address the issues of dogpiling, "mean girls" and the rest, as it has already been done much more eloquently than I can. 
 Please, let's all do a mental "lessons learned" and get back to being our usually supporting selves.
 
 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 07:37:54 AM
I'm going to lay out very specifically why a large number of posters were banned primarily for behavior that happened on this forum.  Taken directly from the Forum Rules:

By registering to join this forum and have posting privileges, you are entering into an agreement to abide by the rules of this forum. If you do not believe you can honor the rules, please refrain from registering. 

It doesn't get any more black and white than this.  When you joined yo had to click on an "I agree" button that you had read the forum rules and agreed to abide by them.  Don't like the rules or how the forum is moderated?  Don't join.  As simple as that. 

As stated further in the forum rules, moderators have no obligation to explain why they have taken the moderating action they have so if you publish a thread wanting to know why your thread was closed, don't be surprised if you are permanently gagged from participating on this forum.

Every person banned had publicly questioned, complained or demanded the moderators explain their actions or express disapproval of the moderation.  The vast majority of them had not bothered to privately PM a mod or use the report feature to assist moderators in doing their job.  I personally spent hours going through the Moderation Log to document every one of the 167 members who, in a 30 day period, had made reports and than I compared that information to who was making public drama over moderation.   In fact, anytime you see public posts griping about moderation, it should be a red flag that perhaps this person is creating drama and needs to be reported.  Hundreds of people successfully use the Report Post feature and many, many people know they can privately PM a mod with a concern, even concerns about other mods!   The forum rules will be amended in a day or so to reflect the further clarification.

If you don’t like the moderators, the forum owner, or the way this forum is moderated, please don’t register and post.
It should go without saying that adults know how to walk away quietly from forums they dislike whereas children rant and leave Good Bye Cruel Forum posts.


It's obvious that there is a lot of bitterness and resentment about perceived moderation choices.  It's also obvious that people did not walk away from the forum with dignity or decorum whatsoever.

Etiquettehell.com and its affiliates reserve the right, in their sole discretion, to edit, refuse to post or remove any material submitted to or posted on the forum. We also reserve the right to gag and/or ban people deemed to be unedifying to the health of the forum and not feel any obligation to explain why. Either you trust that the moderators of this forum are acting with its best interests in mind by way of majority consensus or you don’t trust them. If the latter, please refrain from registering for an account. 

This is the third time the "don't like it, leave or don't register" rule appears.  It doesn't get much more explicit than this.  It's a big Internet world out there and I am sure there must be other forums which are better suited to those who dislike the Ehell style of moderation. 

The vast majority of the recently banned violated most or all of the above forum rules.  Then some violated this one:

It has been a very longstanding and previously unwritten policy of the forum owner that anyone bringing trouble to the forum will be automatically banned.  "Trouble" is defined as, 1) making a post on Ehell linking to another forum, mentioning them by specific name or hinting in such a way that it is obvious who or what forum is being referred to for critical commentary.  General references are OK (example: "A wedding planning board I use to post at.....")  2) Posting trash talk in other forums or blogs that directs or points unwelcome "visitors" to harass the Ehell forum or encourages a forum war in any way. 

Hostile, embittered members who could not walk away from the forum are what I would describe as "unwelcome visitors" but I'll amend the rule to clarify its meaning for the legalists.

Reposted in Forum Announcements as a separate announcement. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: lady_disdain on October 28, 2011, 07:43:09 AM
Like Aeris, I haven't been much on eHell this past week and I am very surprised at everything that is going. Quite upset, in fact. I am trying to figure it all out and I am very confused. On one hand, I have a hard time believing that all this bullying and trash talking was going on. However, in retrospect, it makes a few threads more understandable. On the other, I am very disappointed with how this affair is being handled. Recently, EHellDame pubicly "congratulated" a member on being banned. That was unnecessarily snarky and goes against the policy of respecting banned member's privacy that has been stated on this thread. It is also only one of many such comments by nearly all mods. I do not think this was the polite, civilized way to handle this.

The "guilty by association" argument also worries me. From descriptions of members of the secret group, the group was not a dedicated bash ehell place, where only ehell was mentioned. It was also about all aspects of life. This leads to 2 considerations: it is perfectly possible to be in the group and not be involved in the negative aspects (sure, Wry Exchange's email was off, but was everyone approached like that?) and also the privacy issue.

On the first point, the eHell stance has been publicly stated to be that if you were there, then you are banned. Expect when you aren't, since several members have come forth about it and still are here. I do not agree with that. I think that the quote that was used to explain how this was conducted, "God will know his own", is actually quite apt, in a very sad way. For those who do not recognize it, it is attributed to one of the leaders of the Cathar Massacre, where thousands were killed because some had beliefs that were different from Church dogma. No effort was made to separate the heretics from others and, when questioned about this, the leader said that phrase: God would know the "righteous" and reward them in Heaven and punish the guilty in Hell. So, is this approach fair?

On the second, eHellDame states that it is unfortunate that people chose to share names and information with this group and that everyone in the group should be penalized for the acts of (from what we have seen) a few (since there seems to have been about 10 bannings and the group contains over 100 people). Once again, I disagree with this position. It also raises the question of how this site treats my personal information. If some in ehell made mischief in another forum, would eHell open up my data, simply because I am also a member?

Does this post seem too harsh on eHell and light on the members of the secret group? I think it does, but that is not my intention. There have been errors on both sides, but I can only comment on the fact I know. I have read the mods' opinions and thoughts, therefore I speak my mind on them. I have only fragments of everything else that happened, which is described as much larger. But I don't know what happened, how or by whom. I wish, however, to stress that I do not condone bullying, gossiping or hatred.

Now, if you will all excuse me, I am going to take a nice, long break.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 28, 2011, 07:49:20 AM
However, in retrospect, it makes a few threads more understandable.

That it does. I had been wondering about some threads, and now they make more sense.  :-\
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Teenyweeny on October 28, 2011, 07:51:24 AM
Aeris & lady_disdain, thank you for laying out so eloquently what has been troubling me about all of this.

(Also, which threads? I see some people being disagreed with,  but actually, I have been party to that myself, because I genuinely did disagree!)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 28, 2011, 07:55:29 AM
Aeris & lady_disdain, thank you for laying out so eloquently what has been troubling me about all of this.

(Also, which threads? I see some people being disagreed with,  but actually, I have been party to that myself, because I genuinely did disagree!)

There were a couple of OPs that just got overly jumped on in recent weeks, no matter what they posted, and given that they were the ones that the foulmouthed poster ranted about, I think those posters were being trolled on purpose to provoke them.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: yokozbornak on October 28, 2011, 07:59:31 AM
It doesn't matter why the Facebook group was formed, but it does matter what the results have been.  The members of the "uber secret special Facebook taskforce" have every right to form any group they want, post whatever they want, insult whoever they want, etc.  The issue comes in when what they are doing over there spills over to what is happening here. It has been very obvious for the past few months that some type of weird things were happening, but being fairly new and fairly oblivious, I didn't know exactly what was going on.  I personally felt harrassed on one thread a few months ago, but assumed it was just someone who didn't like me and let it go.  Now I wonder if there was more to it since that person was named as one of the banned. 

Mutiny and mass bannings like this have happened on every big message board I have ever been part of (the DISboards and TWOP being two right off the top of my head), and the administrators have every right to ban people who are harming their site.  The posters may have a sense of ownership in E-hell and feel invested in "saving" it from posters they don't like, but they don't own it and their actions undermined it instead of edifying it.  Also, there is always collateral damage when something like this happens.  I am sure some posters were banned that may not have deserved it, but you know what?  That's life.   There is no perfect way to handle a situation like this, and the mods have to do the best job with the information they have.

Once again, I ask - if you hate the modes, hate the forum owner, and hate Ehell then why is it so important to be here and preserve the place?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: jibby on October 28, 2011, 08:25:40 AM
POD everything Aeris said.

I really hope those banned were not all involved in the mean girls activity. Pathetic. Some posters frustrate me but I just avoid the threads they start. It's that simple. Reading their threads is the same as attending a party where I'll be forced to interact with someone who pushes my buttons, and life is too short for that self induced drama.

Thank you to the mods for keeping this thread open.

Yvaine, we stl-ans rightly reserve our vitriol for the Rangers this week! ;) And whatever you were wanting to post about - hugs and positive vibes for you.

I'm off to create a supersecretFB group for those of us who are not cool enough for the Group, and not interesting enough to be targets. We shall call ourselves The Irrelevants. j/k
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: yokozbornak on October 28, 2011, 08:27:19 AM
Like Aeris, I haven't been much on eHell this past week and I am very surprised at everything that is going. Quite upset, in fact. I am trying to figure it all out and I am very confused. On one hand, I have a hard time believing that all this bullying and trash talking was going on. However, in retrospect, it makes a few threads more understandable. On the other, I am very disappointed with how this affair is being handled. Recently, EHellDame pubicly "congratulated" a member on being banned. That was unnecessarily snarky and goes against the policy of respecting banned member's privacy that has been stated on this thread. It is also only one of many such comments by nearly all mods. I do not think this was the polite, civilized way to handle this.

The "guilty by association" argument also worries me. From descriptions of members of the secret group, the group was not a dedicated bash ehell place, where only ehell was mentioned. It was also about all aspects of life. This leads to 2 considerations: it is perfectly possible to be in the group and not be involved in the negative aspects (sure, Wry Exchange's email was off, but was everyone approached like that?) and also the privacy issue.

On the first point, the eHell stance has been publicly stated to be that if you were there, then you are banned. Expect when you aren't, since several members have come forth about it and still are here. I do not agree with that. I think that the quote that was used to explain how this was conducted, "God will know his own", is actually quite apt, in a very sad way. For those who do not recognize it, it is attributed to one of the leaders of the Cathar Massacre, where thousands were killed because some had beliefs that were different from Church dogma. No effort was made to separate the heretics from others and, when questioned about this, the leader said that phrase: God would know the "righteous" and reward them in Heaven and punish the guilty in Hell. So, is this approach fair?

On the second, eHellDame states that it is unfortunate that people chose to share names and information with this group and that everyone in the group should be penalized for the acts of (from what we have seen) a few (since there seems to have been about 10 bannings and the group contains over 100 people). Once again, I disagree with this position. It also raises the question of how this site treats my personal information. If some in ehell made mischief in another forum, would eHell open up my data, simply because I am also a member?

Does this post seem too harsh on eHell and light on the members of the secret group? I think it does, but that is not my intention. There have been errors on both sides, but I can only comment on the fact I know. I have read the mods' opinions and thoughts, therefore I speak my mind on them. I have only fragments of everything else that happened, which is described as much larger. But I don't know what happened, how or by whom. I wish, however, to stress that I do not condone bullying, gossiping or hatred.

Now, if you will all excuse me, I am going to take a nice, long break.

Per the bolded, I just want to add my opinion.  This group is scecret and has refused requests to make their discussions public (which is their right), but I imagine it makes figuring out who was innocent in this mess a whole lot harder for EHD and the moderators.  Honestly, I think the fairest thing they can do is ban everyone involved and then re-instate if there is a compelling reason to do so.  Also, what you see as guilt by association others see as enableing behavior (they knew what was happening and didn't say anything). 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shores on October 28, 2011, 08:30:26 AM
I don't think repeated requests for an opened group are very productive. Not only do FB groups contain a wealth of information (at the minimum, people's real names, links back to their pages where tons of information can be gleaned, etc) but the ADMIN has already been banned from EHell. So it really wouldn't matter what any specific member of that group felt about going public. The person with the only power to do so would have no reason to since they've already been ousted.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: HermioneGranger on October 28, 2011, 08:33:03 AM
I admit to being gagged once, and it was pretty embarrassing for me.  I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.  I disagree about Raina's banning, considering the circumstances, but this is Miss Jeanne's house, and she has the final say of who is allowed in and who isn't. 

I would also like to thank Miss Jeanne and the mods for being so upfront about everything these past few days, as well as for their handing of this, as I'm another long-time poster who was clueless about what was going on, and I've been a member since the Delphooey days.  I haven't posted much either lately, for fear of being jumped on. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: still in va on October 28, 2011, 08:39:11 AM
I don't think repeated requests for an opened group are very productive. Not only do FB groups contain a wealth of information (at the minimum, people's real names, links back to their pages where tons of information can be gleaned, etc) but the ADMIN has already been banned from EHell. So it really wouldn't matter what any specific member of that group felt about going public. The person with the only power to do so would have no reason to since they've already been ousted.

my agreement that the group should be opened for all to see last night was based on the fact that one member of the secret group, who was NOT banned by association, posted several pm's from members of the group who had been banned. 

that member is the one who opened the door, even that tiny sliver.  if the group is closed (and that's fine with me) then pm's from members there should not be posted here.  frankly, i really have no interest in knowing who was in the group, who was banned from here, who was actively agitating here and who just stood back and watched.  i left high school a long time ago.

posting such things to this board does not help their cause, if their cause is to be re-instated here.  if that is their wish, and it can be shown that they didn't know what was going on, then they need to be discussing it with EHD, in private.  behind the scenes.  it sounds like they do very well in communicating behind the scenes. 

just my opinion.  as always, YMMV.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shores on October 28, 2011, 08:46:55 AM
It seems that there are multiple instances (the weird PM, messages from the dead, etc) that the behavior of one or a couple members is painting the whole group a certain shade. Even if members are posting messages from "the fallen", they still have no control of whether or not it is ever opened. Only one person has that power.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Bexx27 on October 28, 2011, 08:48:46 AM
[quote author=yokozbornak link=topic=108418.msg2552678#msg2552678
Per the bolded, I just want to add my opinion.  This group is scecret and has refused requests to make their discussions public (which is their right), but I imagine it makes figuring out who was innocent in this mess a whole lot harder for EHD and the moderators.  Honestly, I think the fairest thing they can do is ban everyone involved and then re-instate if there is a compelling reason to do so.  Also, what you see as guilt by association others see as enableing behavior (they knew what was happening and didn't say anything).
[/quote]

Trimming the quote tree. I think part of the point is that they may not have known what was happening. Some people visit FB quite infrequently and if the ehell bashing threads were a small part of what was posted there, there's no reason why everyone would have seen them. Personally, I know I would miss a lot of what happens on FB groups because I don't visit consistently, don't scroll too far down to older posts, and don't use the chat function. It also seems from what's been posted upthread that the original group splintered at some point, so it's not necessarily clear which group was reported or how recent/accurate the membership information was.

And even without the whole private information issue, what would the group gain by becoming public? The banned members don't seem to want to come back, so they have nothing to prove. The members who haven't been banned, presumably because they haven't broken any rules on ehell, would be considered "guilty by association" and possibly ostracized on ehell.

I also want to thank the mods for keeping this thread open. Allowing us to have this discussion is a good way to address some members' concerns about lack of transparency in moderation.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: zainabzks on October 28, 2011, 08:58:06 AM
I am sure Jeanne and the mods have  excellent reasons for banning whomever they did. I too had noticed a difference in the forum. I had stopped posting abbot my personal life when I felt the mean girls effect some time ago. I thought it was just me so I kept quiet.
I had also noticed a lot more crass language than in previous years.

Some people onthis forum are phenomenal and I can't wait to keep interacting with them.

I hope everyone can move on with their regulay scheduled e-hell. It's not worh the energy festering on internet strangers' trolling habits.

I have been a member of ehell for nine years and this has happened at least once before.
The forum got better after the trolls left- I'm sure it will again.


Thank you Jeanne for inviting me to your playground. You pay for it and take care of it. This is the reason it hasn't turned into some other crazy forums.



Thanks Jeannes, Wordgeek
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: hardia on October 28, 2011, 08:59:00 AM
I just wanted to say that I have been around the internet a long time, and every single community I have been a part of, every last one, has had something like this happen at one time or another.  Splinter groups happen.  Sometimes they start innocently, as I believe this one did, where people find they have something in common and want to be more open with each other and form deeper friendships in a more private venue than such a large board with thousands of members provides.  In the past I've been part of a splinter group like that (not e-hell related).  Sometimes they're set up from the beginning as a place for angry or disillusioned posters to gather and vent their dissatisfaction.  Sometimes they start as one and become the other, or have elements of both.  I'm aware of a splinter group (again, not e-hell related) that started as a very angry group of people who had been banned from or were unhappy with a certain website, and over time their board became a more general discussion board and there is now very little posting about the original board that they set up their group to complain about, and they even have lots of members who have never even heard of, let alone been banned from, the original board.

It's part of being on the internet.  I'm certainly sorry it happened, I'm sorry people were hurt, I will definitely miss some of the posters who have been banned, but I'm not surprised.  It's the way of the internet.  And Etiquette Hell will go on, and continue to change, and new posters will fill in the holes that the banned (and those who have left by choice) posters have left.

Expressing concern or giving feedback in a thoughtful, polite, balanced way is acceptable, I think.  Most people who do so, do it because they love the board and want to help maintain the community they feel attached to or invested in.  I don't for a minute believe that the Facebook group was started to in any way harm the board, or even really be about the board at all.  I can totally see how it happened -- as I said, I was once a member of a very similar group for another board, where a group of us realized we had a lot in common and wanted a place where we could share more openly with each other.  We set up a private, by invitation only, separate board and moved our day-to-day discussions about our lives there.  We very rarely ever talked about the board where we had all met.  But we came from a huge board, none of us had posted there for very long, and we didn't feel invested in that community in the same way that I think a lot of the members of the Facebook group felt about this one, so I can see how more and more discussion in the Facebook group might have come to be about this board and the concerns people had about it.  I'm sorry it had to come to this.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Tigger on October 28, 2011, 09:00:40 AM
I've been here 4 1/2 years but post very little.   I don't care if someone was talking about me behind my back.  I don't know anyone here in real life so I guess I'm less emotionally invested than some.  The reality is I come here to read stories and get away from my real world.  Sometimes I just need down time and this forum provides that to me.

For those that were trash talking others shame on you.  We are all adults; or I thought so anyway.  I'm have no time or patience for mean girls.  I didn't in high school and I certainly don't now. If you can't be nice go away. If you feel somehow that this is 'your' forum maybe you need to step back.  It belongs to Ehelldame and no one else.

Seriously people, this is an internet forum. Ehelldame and the mods try their best.  Drama is draining.  I can honestly say this is the most drama I've seen in a longggggg time. I can only imagine how tired everyone is. 
I try to my best not to offend or anger anyone.  I also don't post enough really to do so. 

Let's take this forum for what it is and nothing more.  Let Ehelldame and the mods do their jobs.  Again I'll say it.  If you don't like the forum rules; leave.  No one is stopping you. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: cbcb on October 28, 2011, 09:01:03 AM
[insightful commentary clipped]

This whole situation makes me really, really sad.

I agree with this, particularly the point about neither side coming out well. Frankly, I'm rather irritated that so much of the commentary is basically polarized hating on the "other side". (I know, you're not hating, you're amused, they're the haters, go fly a kite and enjoy life, etc). Let's just be honest that both sides are displaying a lot of emotion - when a mod is stating that he hopes people won't pass their toxic personalities (apparently defined at their being members of a facebook group) onto kids, then you have an emotional situation.

The posters in the group, while labelled trolls, seem to have actually been active members in the forum. Many did not seem to be involved in overt trouble-making. Yet many have been just referred to as "trolls who hate it here". That seems an oversimplification. I get that it's easier to just think of them as bad guys and bullies and start with the bannings. But I think this is a good opportunity to examine why so many long-standing posters are apparently disgruntled.

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's). I understand that it's easier to just write the complainers off as bad-eggs, but the fact that I (and I assume others) who do report still feel disgruntled about the modding practices (particularly the secrecy) I think indicates an issue. I hope that this thread remaining open is a sign that modding generally will move into being a more open and communicative practice.

I'm not as invested here as some - I rarely post about my personal life, for example. But even as a fairly unemotionally attached poster, I've been irritated at discrepancies I've seen and offensive occurrences that were overlooked (and have done the mod-approved things in response).

I also agree with hardia that I've see a lot of forum explosions and her general take.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MyFamily on October 28, 2011, 09:04:23 AM
I just found this thread and I'm not going to read the entire 27 pages - I read the first page and that was enough. 

I've been thinking of leaving this board for awhile.  I haven't enjoyed it as much and have been left feeling snippy when I got off.  I couldn't pinpoint it to any one person or thing.  Now I understand why, and I'm going to stay with the hope that the board will return to what it once was.  I'm sorry to see some of the regulars leave, but life is about change and change can be a good thing. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Witty Username Goes Here on October 28, 2011, 09:23:06 AM
I have been posting here at E Hell for a few years, off an on.  Probably more off than on.  I have made some good friends here.  I am going to out myself as a member of the private facebook group, as well (and accept my banning, should the mods feel it necessary).

At this point, everyone has formed their opinions of the other group (which was a "secret" group because of the fact that those are the facebook settings, open or secret).  And as for the requests to open the group?  I'm not comfortable with that.  I don't share the names of my children in open settings, nor do I share identifiable pictures of them in open settings.  Having a private group allows me to share my children with people I wouldn't share them with otherwise.

Did E Hell come up at the private group?  Of COURSE it did.  That's what brought the group together.  Of course E Hell would be discussed. 

Guilt by association?  OK.  Cool.  But I was bullied growing up.  If I truly felt there was bullying going on I wouldn't have stood for it.  I would have left the private group.     
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 09:26:54 AM

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   

It stunned the mods since Jais had been a model member since 2007.  This was completely unexpected and out of what we thought was her character.   With a tiny bit of regret, the rule of the forum was upheld and she was banned without any warnings whatsoever despite the fact that she was a longstanding member with thousands of posts over the years.  On Ehell, one cannot scream profanities and wish people would die and I have no problems whatsoever publicizing people who behave this egregiously.

Quote
  I disagree about Raina's banning, considering the circumstances, but this is Miss Jeanne's house, and she has the final say of who is allowed in and who isn't. 

Raina had more commonsense to leave the group than some people.  I'm just sorry she choose to not wait for me to respond to her message and instead went public with her ban which just added to the very drama we're trying to curtail. 

Remember the scene from "Anna and the King" where Anna made a scene about the execution of a concubine?  The King angrily told her that had she not made a public spectacle he could have stayed the execution quietly and privately but having gone "public" with her objections to the execution, he was now obligated and honor bound to go forward with it.   Both Anna and the king grieved deeply over the way the events played out.    That's how I feel.  I am in an awkward position of having wanted to privately and quietly lift Raina's ban but the public spectacle before I could do that demands that I follow a rule of law.   In the midst of banning people for making drama over moderation, I can't exempt one solely on the basis of feelings.  That would be the very favoritism some people accuse the moderators of doing.  And I think Raina understand this. 

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Bexx27 on October 28, 2011, 09:27:48 AM
I'm also concerned about an atmosphere of paranoia developing. I worry that posters will be afraid to disagree with OPs or address each other bluntly for fear of being suspected as a member of the "secret troll group." Quite honestly, if the responses to Siotehcat in the "teenagers doing chores" thread are an example of this group's "cyberbullying," I think that word does not mean what you think it means. (Not to pick on Siotehcat, and I do agree with a mod's warning posters in that thread to drop it, but I think there is a huge difference between questioning a poster's admittedly unusual stance on an issue and harrassing that poster.) I was bullied myself as a child and don't like to see bullying trivialized by applying that word to mere disagreement and bluntness. The other example mentioned in this thread, of ehellions sending friend requests, also strikes me as innocuous. I'm hardly a prominent or popular poster, but even I am FB friends with other ehellions.

My point is, I would hate to see disagreement and plain speaking become a sign of "trollhood." I appreciate it when other posters question and expose actual trolls who are playing on our emotions with made up stories. I believe that if someone posts in INAH every week about the same problem but refuses to accept any suggestions on how to fix it, we should be able to suggest that they are contributing to their own problem.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: EduardosGirl on October 28, 2011, 09:28:18 AM
I would respectfully submit that the change in tone posters have noticed and are commenting on over the past few months is not caused by the FB group, but has prompted much discussion there. The change in tone is what has prompted open and private queries about trends and decisions, noticed by non-group members also. To say it is all the fault of the FB group is scapegoating.

People aren't - for the vast majority - mean girls. They are concerned with moderation decisions, random deletions and other behaviours that were politely queried and then not really addressed. There are no concerted trolling efforts, just people noticing trends on the boards and discussing them, seeing if they - as members - could do anything about them, since queries to mods and polite threads questioning went unanswered or deleted.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a member of the Facebook group: the open and the secret one. I also do not condone bullying, but do not feel comfortable with certain decisions on the board of late. I would prefer if the group was not opened because it *does* contain so much of my information, purely through the link to my page. Not because I don't stand by my activities there. I stand by my activities here too. Neither are not shameful or hateful.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 28, 2011, 09:33:48 AM

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 09:39:05 AM

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's).

Despite the public threads complaining of "pets" and "favoritism", not one person, either by Report link or PM, ever named a specific "pet" or "favorite".   The utter lack of specificity renders most complaints null and void.  We don't moderate based on "feelings" and if there is no tangible evidence, the mods aren't likely to moderate in a way that will satisfy those wanting people removed  simply because they rub them the wrong way. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 09:39:55 AM

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

It works for me when I click it.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ms_Cellany on October 28, 2011, 09:40:30 AM
It tells me I don't have access. Maybe it's in an area that only mods & admins can see?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Miss March on October 28, 2011, 09:41:08 AM
Ms-Cellany is right. For me it says I don't have access to see it.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Shoo on October 28, 2011, 09:41:13 AM

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

It works for me when I click it.

It says it's missing or off limits to me.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Tigger on October 28, 2011, 09:41:19 AM
It doesn't work for me either.  Thought something was wrong there for a minute  ;D


Edited because today I can't spell.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: T'Mar of Vulcan on October 28, 2011, 09:41:50 AM
EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

I was just about to post this.

I want to say something about this, but it's like I can't get words out. People always annoy/are annoyed by other people. That's just life. To turn it into some kind of huge explosion and drama seems... I don't know... silly?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 28, 2011, 09:42:03 AM

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

It works for me when I click it.

It says "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you." when I click. Does that help?
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on October 28, 2011, 09:45:25 AM
Yeah it says the same for me too. :)
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Visiting Crazy Town on October 28, 2011, 09:51:30 AM
 I will come forward I am a Member of the group and  I haven't attacked anyone or been vicious with people.

 I don't know if it matter  or not but I am Black and we are not racist in the least there are people of all colors that are apart of the group and the truth is we  barely ever talk about Ehell we have a lot of other things that are going on and that is what we usual talk about .

 I think that a lot of you believe that we sit around making fun of posters all day an that simply isn't true at all and at the end of the day I don't think that we did a single thing wrong even if  you all do
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Visiting Crazy Town on October 28, 2011, 09:54:01 AM
"In response to the insistence that the FB pages were created to bash ehell - NO facebook group currently in existence was created to bash ehell – not the “official” group and not the “secret” group that people are being banned for being a part of. Furthermore, ehell isn't even the main topic of conversation. That's where we all know each other from, but it's really not what we talk about here at least. The FB pages were created because many of us had become closer friends via PM or even in the threads themselves. In order to facilitate these friendships and also have non-ehell approved conversations (ranging from sex to personal medical issues) we created a FB page. Those of us on that page have become closer, trusted friends.
And that’s important. The people on the page are our friends. Your insistence that if we had nothing to worry about, we’d let the mods and dame onto our page is ridiculous. Of course we have something to worry about – we don’t want people we don’t know, trust or (in many cases) even like looking in to our most personal conversations. That’s not their business. It’s not their FB page. They’ve got their own, they can stop trying to moderate ours.
As to the PM between one of our members and Scuba_Dog that is the main focus of evidence of the nature of our FB page - We honestly have NO IDEA why that email was sent to Scuba_Dog. Answering those questions is not a prerequisite of the group. No one else was asked those questions. All you need is a referral from a member. What one person did on their own, even if they did it under the guise of representing us, does not reflect the mindset of the intention of the group. I consider those incredibly stupid questions to ask because there is really no consensus in the group about who is a 'good' poster and who is a 'bad' poster - we don't even really talk about it much. So, to take those emails and paint the rest of us with the brush of one person we ALL disagree with in this case if wrong. It’s also important to note that Scuba_Dog sought the private facebook group out and the group decided to extend her an invitation – why the email went down is not known to the group. Again, that was the (bad) decision of one member that does not reflect the group attitude – and I agree with you, it makes the secret group sound like a bunch of mean girls. I’ve found more love and support there and negativity, including things like getting donations together for a non- secret facebook member ehellion when she experienced a tragedy.
Several people were ousted from the group for taking comments to the extreme that we couldn’t accept. Some were just not good fits and were asked to leave for one reason or another. A couple others went off on their own – this didn’t matter to us. But what it sounds like to us is that someone that was ousted went to the Dame and started pointing fingers.
Yes, sometimes we discuss ehell. Sometimes we link to threads. But, that is not the focus or intent of the page. Sometimes we link frustrating posters or posters we find inconsistency with and wonder if they’re trolls (and discuss that amongst ourselves – what some posters may or may not do on their own in ehell really doesn’t come from the group itself). Sometimes it's links to especially interesting threads or threads with posters who we have a lot of sympathy for or even threads where we're like 'why is this worth posting' because it's so inane. But, yeah, 90% non e-hell related topics - which, again, is why it’s not the mods or Dame’s business.
Lastly, the questioning moding threads. There is a lot of insistence that people did not report the threads or contact the mods as is encouraged by ehell. Well, I know that that is what we encourage FIRST because we are not out to “get” ehell or anything. But after weeks of silence, we were getting frustrated seeing things over and over again. Nothing was being addressed. It’s interesting to note that many of the posts agreeing that there were issues in ehell were not from members of the secret facebook group.
I guess that’s all I have to say. I hope this clears things up for some people. I know there are those who will continue to think that the secret facebook group was staging some kind of revolution to dethrone the Dame and exile the mods – but that’s just silly. Why would we want to do that? Most of our members had been here for YEARS and loved it here. But, as time went on and issues started arising, most did decide to quietly step back and simply lurk, using the FB secret group to ask our questions and get hugs when we needed it. I’m truly sorry for those posters that were caught up in the drama and banned simply for being a part of the group.
- PeasNCues (banned)"
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 28, 2011, 09:54:08 AM

 I don't know if it matter  or not but I am Black and we are not racist in the least there are people of all colors that are apart of the group and the truth is we  barely ever talk about Ehell we have a lot of other things that are going on and that is what we usual talk about .


My comment about racism had nothing to do with the secret ehell group. It was an example from elsewhere in my life--I was talking about some trolls on a Facebook group about memories from my hometown.

I have no idea what anyone has said on the private FB group since I am not a member and first heard of it in the sensei thread.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Visiting Crazy Town on October 28, 2011, 10:01:53 AM

 I don't know if it matter  or not but I am Black and we are not racist in the least there are people of all colors that are apart of the group and the truth is we  barely ever talk about Ehell we have a lot of other things that are going on and that is what we usual talk about .


My comment about racism had nothing to do with the secret ehell group. It was an example from elsewhere in my life--I was talking about some trolls on a Facebook group about memories from my hometown.

I have no idea what anyone has said on the private FB group since I am not a member and first heard of it in the sensei thread.

 NO I was talking about War Doc comments
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: cbcb on October 28, 2011, 10:03:00 AM

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's).

Despite the public threads complaining of "pets" and "favoritism", not one person, either by Report link or PM, ever named a specific "pet" or "favorite".   The utter lack of specificity renders most complaints null and void.  We don't moderate based on "feelings" and if there is no tangible evidence, the mods aren't likely to moderate in a way that will satisfy those wanting people removed  simply because they rub them the wrong way.

I have not used the word "pet" or "favourite", but I have specifically noted individual posters to the mods using the "report post" who have a troublesome pattern of behavior leading to issues in thread. Note this these are not instances of "difference of opinion". The individuals in question would commonly fail to read with comprehension or read the thread  fully before posting, and post with vigorous anger or judgement at the OP of the thread or other posters for their own mistake. The bigger problem comes when they failed to apologize or back down when corrected. Since this behaviour continued (and still  occurs), it appears these reports were not addressed. The behaviour continues, often in the same thread, with no mod stepping in to say "hey, so-and-so, the OP addressed what you are angry about and you were mistaken".  So in the end, what I am observing is my valid complaint going unheeded or acknowledged, and another poster allowed to continue lambasting others despite clearly and demonstrably suffering under a misunderstanding of their own causing.

As the report link send a message to mods generally (as I understand it) I never knew who to follow up with to figure out why this behaviour was apparently ok.

I never wanted to describe them publicly, which is why I chose to report in the past using the "report" link. I only mention it all here to clarify that I have reported people specifically by name and their problematic tendency towards a posting style (lack of careful or complete reading, and moreover, lack of responsibility for their misreading) that disrupted threads, and have failed to see mod action correcting it.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: bobsyouruncle on October 28, 2011, 10:09:03 AM

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's).

Despite the public threads complaining of "pets" and "favoritism", not one person, either by Report link or PM, ever named a specific "pet" or "favorite".   The utter lack of specificity renders most complaints null and void.  We don't moderate based on "feelings" and if there is no tangible evidence, the mods aren't likely to moderate in a way that will satisfy those wanting people removed  simply because they rub them the wrong way.

I have not used the word "pet" or "favourite", but I have specifically noted individual posters to the mods using the "report post" who have a troublesome pattern of behavior leading to issues in thread. Note this these are not instances of "difference of opinion". The individuals in question would commonly fail to read with comprehension or read the thread  fully before posting, and post with vigorous anger or judgement at the OP of the thread or other posters for their own mistake. The bigger problem comes when they failed to apologize or back down when corrected. Since this behaviour continued (and still  occurs), it appears these reports were not addressed. The behaviour continues, often in the same thread, with no mod stepping in to say "hey, so-and-so, the OP addressed what you are angry about and you were mistaken".  So in the end, what I am observing is my valid complaint going unheeded or acknowledged, and another poster allowed to continue lambasting others despite clearly and demonstrably suffering under a misunderstanding of their own causing.

As the report link send a message to mods generally (as I understand it) I never knew who to follow up with to figure out why this behaviour was apparently ok.

I never wanted to describe them publicly, which is why I chose to report in the past using the "report" link. I only mention it all here to clarify that I have reported people specifically by name and their problematic tendency towards a posting style (lack of careful or complete reading, and moreover, lack of responsibility for their misreading) that disrupted threads, and have failed to see mod action correcting it.

I have as well.  Even worse I have seen other posters acting as if they had "invisible mod stars" bossing posters around and telling them what they could and couldn't post even worse I've seen posters accuse others of being sexual immoral or insinuating that people they consider stupid are no better than "mulch" and not deserving of respect- I've reported these posters and they are still posting. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ligeia on October 28, 2011, 10:11:14 AM
Shay, are you quoting a PM Peas N Cues asked you to repost here?  It's a little hard to figure out (or maybe that's just me).  But I think it says some important things:

Quote
As to the PM between one of our members and Scuba_Dog that is the main focus of evidence of the nature of our FB page - We honestly have NO IDEA why that email was sent to Scuba_Dog. Answering those questions is not a prerequisite of the group. No one else was asked those questions. All you need is a referral from a member. What one person did on their own, even if they did it under the guise of representing us, does not reflect the mindset of the intention of the group. I consider those incredibly stupid questions to ask because there is really no consensus in the group about who is a 'good' poster and who is a 'bad' poster - we don't even really talk about it much. So, to take those emails and paint the rest of us with the brush of one person we ALL disagree with in this case if wrong. It’s also important to note that Scuba_Dog sought the private facebook group out and the group decided to extend her an invitation – why the email went down is not known to the group. Again, that was the (bad) decision of one member that does not reflect the group attitude – and I agree with you, it makes the secret group sound like a bunch of mean girls. I’ve found more love and support there and negativity, including things like getting donations together for a non- secret facebook member ehellion when she experienced a tragedy.

I didn't have any idea that the FB group even existed until I read this thread, but I think I'm going to side with them: it seems like a lot of people have been unfairly banned simply for being members of that group.  It seems, indeed, that the mods (and posters in this thread) are using that decidedly mean-girlish PM from Wry Exchange as evidence of some sort of troll conspiracy--even though, as many members of the FB group have said, the purpose of the group was not to bash Ehell and that PM was not indicative of the tone of the forum nor the usual way members were recruited.  Undoubtedly there were members of the group who wanted to stir up trouble, but that's true of any group, anywhere. 

Yeah, the mods can ban whomever they want for whatever reason, since it's a privately owned forum. Still, I think it's a legitimate criticism: what members of the forum do on other sites shouldn't be the business of the mods here. 

I can't believe how many intelligent, helpful posters have been banned, and I have a sneaking suspicion that it's all a bit unfair.  If there's other evidence of a troll conspiracy besides that PM which other members of the group have denounced, I wish we could see it.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Xallanthia on October 28, 2011, 10:13:03 AM
For the most part, people have already expressed what I would have expressed had I written a longer post, or stayed up all night last night, so I'll just say a few things.

1) I agree with Aeris. 

2) I was concerned before I went to bed last night that this thread had vanished, and was planning to back off from ehell as a result, because I thought it had been deliberately deleted and that the legitimate concerns of some were being ignored.  I am glad to see that it was never intended to simply wipe the disagreement off the map, but rather a mod hoping to deal with an unusual situation, who hadn't known the rest.  I am very glad it is open again today.  I fully expect it to be locked if (probably when) the discussion proceeds beyond usefulness.

3) I am having the same issue as everyone else with the Dame's link.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: LadyL on October 28, 2011, 10:15:25 AM
After hearing from several of the secret group members on this thread, all I can say is it seems like a few of your members ruined it for all of you. That stinks, and I'm sorry. I hope that some of you will contest your bans because I know some of you have positive, non-controversial posting histories here.

That said, Shay - apparently War Doc and the other mods have receive some really, really nasty reactions in PMs from group members who've been banned. That certainly doesn't engender the mods to give other group members benefit of the doubt. Someone claiming to be a secret FB group member posted a really nasty, expletive filled, hateful post in this thread (since deleted, but you can see their username in the quote tree from some of my posts, if you're curious). Again, it doesn't give much credibility to the claims that the group was a neutral force. Even if 90% of the group content was benign, that other 10% sounds like it was pretty nasty, and violated the Ehell TOS and possible the FB TOS (which also prohibits harassment).

There is no good solution :(. I would like to believe that those deserving bans are "extremists" in the context of the larger membership of the secret group. I really don't want to believe THAT many ehell members are actually nasty pieces of work.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: PurpleFrog on October 28, 2011, 10:18:16 AM
The more names that come out the more shocked I am. Ehell is deffinatly going to be very different without many of these prominent posters. Although I'll admit to a feeling relief every so often when a poster I enjoy reading pops up.

Cbcb & ladyrake: As I recall in one of the moderation threads it was suggested that if a poster is showing a worrying pattern of behaviour across many threads then the best response is to PM a mod as more details can be given. I'm sorry I cant link I'm on my phone.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: violinp on October 28, 2011, 10:20:17 AM
After hearing from several of the secret group members on this thread, all I can say is it seems like a few of your members ruined it for all of you. That stinks, and I'm sorry. I hope that some of you will contest your bans because I know some of you have positive, non-controversial posting histories here.

That said, Shay - apparently War Doc and the other mods have receive some really, really nasty reactions in PMs from group members who've been banned. That certainly doesn't engender the mods to give other group members benefit of the doubt. Someone claiming to be a secret FB group member posted a really nasty, expletive filled, hateful post in this thread (since deleted, but you can see their username in the quote tree from some of my posts, if you're curious). Again, it doesn't give much credibility to the claims that the group was a neutral force. Even if 90% of the group content was benign, that other 10% sounds like it was pretty nasty, and violated the Ehell TOS and possible the FB TOS (which also prohibits harassment).

There is no good solution :(. I would like to believe that those deserving bans are "extremists" in the context of the larger membership of the secret group. I really don't want to believe THAT many ehell members are actually nasty pieces of work.

POD. And even if an overwhelming majority was peaceful, the ones who were not made everything go really, really bad.  :( It stinks for everyone.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MariaE on October 28, 2011, 10:21:13 AM
Also, as EhellDame stated somewhere - it wasn't just based on the PMs, but also some information about a chat/thread on or around June 30th. She hasn't shared the details of that chat, but it definitely wasn't the PMs alone.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 28, 2011, 10:22:28 AM
It’s also important to note that Scuba_Dog sought the private facebook group out and the group decided to extend her an invitation –

No, I didn't.  I expressed my displeasure with the currect direction of the forum, a fact that I have not hidden.  I agreed with many of the sentiments that this particular person posted in a thread, and I thought perhaps, based on that post, she and others were starting a forum, not some weird secret club that I had to answer goofy middle school questions to see if I would "fit in".

That PM conversation was with a DIFFERENT poster than Wry Exchange.  I did not ask her about any kind of secret facebook club.

I never solicited the PM I got from Wry Exchange. 

Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Dragonflymom on October 28, 2011, 10:23:19 AM
This is all making me really sad.   :'(

It definitely explains some of the piling on and general nastiness I've seen crop up recently that has been so upsetting and kept me from posting much.  It does seem a lot like "mean girls" in school, which I had hoped was a long gone chapter in my life.

I had no idea about the group, just noticed a lot of general weird random meanness often targeted at specific posters which I tried to report when it seemed obvious enough, but some threads just left me with a vague feeling of ickiness that didn't really seem like there was anything specific to report.

I never got asked to join or contacted by any members.  I guess I'm too boring.  Or maybe I'm too unstable.   >:D

*hugs* to the mods and EhelllDame for having to deal with all this mess.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Twik on October 28, 2011, 10:23:43 AM
The more names that come out the more shocked I am. Ehell is deffinatly going to be very different without many of these prominent posters. Although I'll admit to a feeling relief every so often when a poster I enjoy reading pops up.

Yes, I get that same feeling!
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Xallanthia on October 28, 2011, 10:24:37 AM
Aeris & lady_disdain, thank you for laying out so eloquently what has been troubling me about all of this.

(Also, which threads? I see some people being disagreed with,  but actually, I have been party to that myself, because I genuinely did disagree!)

There were a couple of OPs that just got overly jumped on in recent weeks, no matter what they posted, and given that they were the ones that the foulmouthed poster ranted about, I think those posters were being trolled on purpose to provoke them.

I noticed a few places where people seemed to be getting trolled on purpose, but remember that "the foulmouthed poster" (I assume you mean Bookworm?) was moderated quickly and the names removed.  In fact, the whole post is gone now, though you can find sections of it that others quoted.  So someone coming late to the conversation would not have seen it.  I didn't; I've reconstructed it from others' quotes.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 10:25:24 AM
I'm also concerned about an atmosphere of paranoia developing. I worry that posters will be afraid to disagree with OPs or address each other bluntly for fear of being suspected as a member of the "secret troll group." Quite honestly, if the responses to Siotehcat in the "teenagers doing chores" thread are an example of this group's "cyberbullying," I think that word does not mean what you think it means. (Not to pick on Siotehcat, and I do agree with a mod's warning posters in that thread to drop it, but I think there is a huge difference between questioning a poster's admittedly unusual stance on an issue and harrassing that poster.)

  My PM inbox is getting inundated with people coming clean, explaining the situation on that group, claiming they were bullied there, naming names  and confirming that this secret group, while initially begun with good intentions, had a serious problem with organized trolling of specific people (who are named) on Ehell.  The problem was serious enough that the creator began banning people and deleting threads that could be screenshot as evidence.   

I think in the interest of transparency, an admin of that group should contact me and give me the names of the banned persons so I can ban them here as well.   
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: kitty-cat on October 28, 2011, 10:26:07 AM
The more names that come out the more shocked I am. Ehell is deffinatly going to be very different without many of these prominent posters. Although I'll admit to a feeling relief every so often when a poster I enjoy reading pops up.

Yes, I get that same feeling!

Same here. I used to love seeing Tabris' opinions when she posted em.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Xallanthia on October 28, 2011, 10:27:37 AM
The more names that come out the more shocked I am. Ehell is deffinatly going to be very different without many of these prominent posters. Although I'll admit to a feeling relief every so often when a poster I enjoy reading pops up.

Yes, I get that same feeling!

Same here. I used to love seeing Tabris' opinions when she posted em.

In case you didn't know, Tabris left the forum for reasons unrelated to anything but her own life.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 28, 2011, 10:28:44 AM
As to the PM between one of our members and Scuba_Dog that is the main focus of evidence of the nature of our FB page - We honestly have NO IDEA why that email was sent to Scuba_Dog.

I think what you continue to miss is that the PM's I forwarded were probably not a very big deal in comparison to the information EHD already had about the secret group.

I think you are focusing in on the PM's because they are more recent and have a name attached to them. 

You have a member (edit-- apparently, several members) of your group (I was never a member, never even looked at the facebook page, I don't even know where the public one is!) who have been "outing" your group for awhile. 

This person (people) doesn't want to be named for fear or retaliation (what does that say about your kind group?) 

Again, I'm pretty sure the PM's were just the tip of the iceburg here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: HermioneGranger on October 28, 2011, 10:28:58 AM

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

It works for me when I click it.

I can't see it either.  Perhaps it was moved to where only the mods could see it, not the general public?  That would make sense as to why you can see it but we can't. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: kitty-cat on October 28, 2011, 10:29:34 AM
The more names that come out the more shocked I am. Ehell is deffinatly going to be very different without many of these prominent posters. Although I'll admit to a feeling relief every so often when a poster I enjoy reading pops up.

Yes, I get that same feeling!

Same here. I used to love seeing Tabris' opinions when she posted em.

In case you didn't know, Tabris left the forum for reasons unrelated to anything but her own life.

Yeah, I know. But she's a poster that I used to like seeing posts from.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Twik on October 28, 2011, 10:29:51 AM
One downside of a secret social group, even if everything is completely innocent, is that once it's known, those who were not invited do feel rather like they're hearing about a party just for the the "cool kids", and they didn't make the cut. Even if they wouldn't have attended in the first place.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 28, 2011, 10:30:24 AM
Aeris & lady_disdain, thank you for laying out so eloquently what has been troubling me about all of this.

(Also, which threads? I see some people being disagreed with,  but actually, I have been party to that myself, because I genuinely did disagree!)

There were a couple of OPs that just got overly jumped on in recent weeks, no matter what they posted, and given that they were the ones that the foulmouthed poster ranted about, I think those posters were being trolled on purpose to provoke them.

I noticed a few places where people seemed to be getting trolled on purpose, but remember that "the foulmouthed poster" (I assume you mean Bookworm?) was moderated quickly and the names removed.  In fact, the whole post is gone now, though you can find sections of it that others quoted.  So someone coming late to the conversation would not have seen it.  I didn't; I've reconstructed it from others' quotes.

Yeah, that's it. I had forgotten who made the post, just remembered how over the top it was!  :o

I don't want to be hurtful to the people mentioned in that post if they were lucky enough to not see it, so I'll use an example that was already discussed in the thread by others. Siotehcat got hounded on a couple of posts lately, and while the actual opinions expressed were not unreasonable and the posts taken in isolation weren't banworthy, it just seemed like there was a lot of it. And that people just weren't letting go. It seemed weird and now I think maybe a small number posters were trying to be provocative (perhaps accidentally egged on by people who were innocent but happened to agree).
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: girlysprite on October 28, 2011, 10:37:48 AM
I have been a member for a short while, not even knowing that it was a secret group. I didn't read the facebook threads, but sometimes participated in the chat. I supposed this is how I missed the fact that it was a secret group, which was not to be mentioned here. The chat was mostly friendly and fun, but I sometimes noticed that when some threads were discussed, the wording could be quite harsh, and some people were quite judgemental. I did try defending posters a few times, and played a bit of devil's advocate. I did this in cases when I truly did not see a bad pattern of a poster, or could not understand why a post was bad.
So some time ago, there was a thread in ehell where people wondered why there was more vitrol lately. I shared my experiences of the chat. I had facebook open at the time, and soon after the chat exploded. That is when I discovered that the group was supposed to be secret. I deleted my post. The chat had gotten so nasty by then, that I was afraid to say 'I didn't mean to, sorry, I deleted it', so I stayed silent. I get it, people were angry, but the way I was dissected, and how some people would rephrase the discussions we had before, and rephrased their opinion on certain other postsers i had defended (word to indicate female 'parts' were used) did leave a bad taste.

I sent a pm later on facebook to one of the members, explaining the situation. The apology was accepted, but I was banned from the facebook group by then. I must say, that having witnessed these things in the chat, I didn't feel at ease. I knew people were being judged and rolled through the wringer behind their backs. 90% of the chatter was innocent and fun. But there was stuff amongst it that was just not cool.

I don't think that everyone in the group was bad - but it did create clique like behavior amongst some of its members.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 10:37:53 AM
Ms-Cellany is right. For me it says I don't have access to see it.

Oops, you are right.  The entire thread was moved to the Recycle Folder.  I'm not sure I want to move the whole thread out again.  She had posted a TMI list of what someone then referred to as her "manifesto of personal peccadilloes". She responded to that with:  I so appreciate the unneeded, unwanted judgmental douchebagging from a N00b. You want to call me a sinner? Go scrabble yourself! You sanctimonious POS! Who the F are you to judge me. JUST GET AN EFFING LIFE! OR DIE! You are a total jerk

Snark-a-rama thread all around that got removed and moderated. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: MariaE on October 28, 2011, 10:43:53 AM
Wow... I'd have been tempted to think she was hacked, like... Gah, I can't remember her name, but it happened about 6 months ago. "She" posted a post full of vitrol and cussing completely unlike her usual posts - the writing style was different as well - lots of textspeak so it was pretty obvious it wasn't really her writing.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Bexx27 on October 28, 2011, 10:44:44 AM
I'm also concerned about an atmosphere of paranoia developing. I worry that posters will be afraid to disagree with OPs or address each other bluntly for fear of being suspected as a member of the "secret troll group." Quite honestly, if the responses to Siotehcat in the "teenagers doing chores" thread are an example of this group's "cyberbullying," I think that word does not mean what you think it means. (Not to pick on Siotehcat, and I do agree with a mod's warning posters in that thread to drop it, but I think there is a huge difference between questioning a poster's admittedly unusual stance on an issue and harrassing that poster.)

  My PM inbox is getting inundated with people coming clean, explaining the situation on that group, claiming they were bullied there, naming names  and confirming that this secret group, while initially begun with good intentions, had a serious problem with organized trolling of specific people (who are named) on Ehell.  The problem was serious enough that the creator began banning people and deleting threads that could be screenshot as evidence.   

I think in the interest of transparency, an admin of that group should contact me and give me the names of the banned persons so I can ban them here as well.

Well, obviously there were/are specific cases of bullying and harrassment. I'm just saying I would hate for us to start seeing it everywhere.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 28, 2011, 10:45:35 AM
Wow... I'd have been tempted to think she was hacked, like... Gah, I can't remember her name, but it happened about 6 months ago. "She" posted a post full of vitrol and cussing completely unlike her usual posts - the writing style was different as well - lots of textspeak so it was pretty obvious it wasn't really her writing.

Yeah, I remember that too. And I think we ended up losing her anyway--she decided she was spending too much time on here.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Scuba_Dog on October 28, 2011, 10:46:11 AM
Wow... I'd have been tempted to think she was hacked, like... Gah, I can't remember her name, but it happened about 6 months ago. "She" posted a post full of vitrol and cussing completely unlike her usual posts - the writing style was different as well - lots of textspeak so it was pretty obvious it wasn't really her writing.

Yeah, I remember that too. And I think we ended up losing her anyway--she decided she was spending too much time on here.

That was MDFarge, I think.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Valentines Mommy on October 28, 2011, 10:46:55 AM
I'll admit that I don't post in the substantive parts of this forum.  But I do read it frequently and I noticed that the forum seemed snarkier over the last few months.  Even when I felt I had something constructive to add to a conversation, I held off because I noticed a trend of dog piling.

I am glad to know I wasn't crazy, but deeply saddened to know that a game was afoot by a few people.

I am not a prominent member of this forum.  I was never aware of the Facebook group.  I do not believe every member of the Facebook group was involved.  I do believe that many in this group were unaware of what some of their members were up to.  But, as many have stated, this forum is not a democracy.  There are clearly stated rules we all agreed to follow.  This community is losing many members who offered support, good advice, and the occasional kick in the pants when needed because those rules have to be enforced.  Otherwise, this forum becomes a free for all and I don't believe any of us want to see that.

I come here because its a safe place.  Yes, I am troubled by recent events.  I wish that the bannings and gaggings did not have to happen.  But I want this forum to be a healthy place again.  How much evidence do we as a community really need to see before the healing can begin? 

 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Xallanthia on October 28, 2011, 10:47:16 AM
Aeris & lady_disdain, thank you for laying out so eloquently what has been troubling me about all of this.

(Also, which threads? I see some people being disagreed with,  but actually, I have been party to that myself, because I genuinely did disagree!)

There were a couple of OPs that just got overly jumped on in recent weeks, no matter what they posted, and given that they were the ones that the foulmouthed poster ranted about, I think those posters were being trolled on purpose to provoke them.

I noticed a few places where people seemed to be getting trolled on purpose, but remember that "the foulmouthed poster" (I assume you mean Bookworm?) was moderated quickly and the names removed.  In fact, the whole post is gone now, though you can find sections of it that others quoted.  So someone coming late to the conversation would not have seen it.  I didn't; I've reconstructed it from others' quotes.

Yeah, that's it. I had forgotten who made the post, just remembered how over the top it was!  :o

I don't want to be hurtful to the people mentioned in that post if they were lucky enough to not see it, so I'll use an example that was already discussed in the thread by others. Siotehcat got hounded on a couple of posts lately, and while the actual opinions expressed were not unreasonable and the posts taken in isolation weren't banworthy, it just seemed like there was a lot of it. And that people just weren't letting go. It seemed weird and now I think maybe a small number posters were trying to be provocative (perhaps accidentally egged on by people who were innocent but happened to agree).

I agree that it is probably not kind to out all of the targetted posters and that wasn't my intention; I merely intended to point out that rather than pointing to a specific example that no longer exists, we might want to keep it to "some posters."

Sio was the poster I was also thinking of when I said "I noticed a few places where people seemed to be getting trolled on purpose."  I ended up saying nothing in those threads because while I disagreed with her, it seemed she'd been disagreed with enough; I didn't have anything useful to add to the conversation.  I think instead, in the future, I'll try to report posts that appear OTT, rather than just skimming past and not reading them.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: kitty-cat on October 28, 2011, 10:48:24 AM
Wow... I'd have been tempted to think she was hacked, like... Gah, I can't remember her name, but it happened about 6 months ago. "She" posted a post full of vitrol and cussing completely unlike her usual posts - the writing style was different as well - lots of textspeak so it was pretty obvious it wasn't really her writing.

Yeah, I remember that too. And I think we ended up losing her anyway--she decided she was spending too much time on here.

That was MDFarge, I think.

Pretty sure it was. Her phone got stolen at a mall after she had been on ehell on it. The person that stole it posted stuff and then posed a rather nasty post with cursing in it.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: TheBardess on October 28, 2011, 10:48:52 AM
Ms-Cellany is right. For me it says I don't have access to see it.

Oops, you are right.  The entire thread was moved to the Recycle Folder.  I'm not sure I want to move the whole thread out again.  She had posted a TMI list of what someone then referred to as her "manifesto of personal peccadilloes". She responded to that with:  I so appreciate the unneeded, unwanted judgmental douchebagging from a N00b. You want to call me a sinner? Go scrabble yourself! You sanctimonious POS! Who the F are you to judge me. JUST GET AN EFFING LIFE! OR DIE! You are a total jerk

Snark-a-rama thread all around that got removed and moderated.

 :o :o

Wow. Just...wow. I used to really like Jais, too.  :-\

*sigh* This whole thing makes me sad. I actually feel a little bit like Elizabeth Bennet in Pride and Prejudice: "I hear such differing accounts of you as to puzzle me exceedingly." We have several members of the "Secret" group coming forward to insist that everything there was completely innocent sunshine and kittens...but at the same time, we're hearing of nasty PMs sent to mods, encouragement of trolling, and tearing apart other posters (in addition to the nasty, snarky messages that banned members have posted in this thread and in the public Facebook group).

I really hope everything can get worked out and that anyone who was "innocent collateral" can "appeal their sentence," so to speak, and get back on the board. There's a lot of longtime posters gone- I'd hate to think they were all so nasty.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Yvaine on October 28, 2011, 10:49:30 AM
Sio was the poster I was also thinking of when I said "I noticed a few places where people seemed to be getting trolled on purpose."  I ended up saying nothing in those threads because while I disagreed with her, it seemed she'd been disagreed with enough; I didn't have anything useful to add to the conversation.  I think instead, in the future, I'll try to report posts that appear OTT, rather than just skimming past and not reading them.

Yeah, I was the same way--I agreed with the actual content being posted but felt like it was unnecessary to add to it. I need to be more vigilant about reporting dogpiles even if each post in isolation is reasonable/has plausible deniability.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 10:52:39 AM
I'm locking the thread for a few hours.  Everyone go take a lunch break, throw the ball to the dog,  eat some chocolate, guzzle some Coca Cola.

I'm going to nosh on chicken, cuddle in my recliner under my microplush blanket and watch the Project Runway finale.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: War_Doc on October 28, 2011, 02:23:17 PM
Shay, I'm not sure how you construed my comment about nasty PM's and reports to be racist.  You need to elaborate a bit further on that one.
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 28, 2011, 10:06:17 PM
After closing the thread around lunchtime, stepping outside and realizing the fall leaves had turned while I had been slaving at my desk for the past two days, I decided it was more important to enjoy the pretty autumn colors.  I also need to catch up on a bunch of emails, PMs, etc so the thread stays locked for a day or two.  Everyone enjoy their weekend. 
Title: Re: Ex member
Post by: Ehelldame on October 31, 2011, 10:48:51 AM
I am not reopening this thread as I believe the issues have been talked to death and there is nothing further to be gained by it.   I spent much of my weekend enjoying the autumn weather, hitching and driving my pony and enjoying a family get together.  It was too pretty of a weekend to waste online.

  I've read all the emails and PMs and there are some private dialogs happening and some issues addressed.  Whatever is left to be said by me is contained in the update to this thread: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=108709.msg2552651#msg2552651