Etiquette Hell

Etiquette School is in session! => "I'm afraid that won't be possible." => Topic started by: AmyBird85 on December 04, 2011, 06:32:36 PM

Title: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: AmyBird85 on December 04, 2011, 06:32:36 PM
First of all, I wasn't sure which forum to post this in- I'm hoping this is the right one.

This happened to me on Friday night at a pub gig I attended.

[BG] I go to see a rock 'n' roll/rhythm and blues band at the same pub every month. Sometimes I go alone, sometimes my dad comes along. All of the band members, bar staff and regulars know me and I'm never short of people to talk to. There is space to dance too and there's always a great atmosphere whenever I go there. [END BG]

So, I'm sitting (alone, this time) enjoying the band playing a nice slow blues jam, when a man comes up to me and asks me to dance. Fair enough, I will dance with anyone once, even though I'm not great at partnered dancing- I like to be a good sport and join in! He takes my hand and we go on the "dance floor". Now, when I go to this place I have no intentions of going "on the pull", nor do I dress or behave in a way that would suggest otherwise. A dance is a dance to me, but this guy had other ideas....
What hits me first is the foul stench of cigarettes coming from him, which turns my stomach. Not wanting to be rude and break away mid-song, I carry on dancing but just hold my breath. The song ends, he thanks me, then.... plants a big, horrible sloppy kiss on my cheek! Eurgh! I cringe and make my way back to my seat.

The next song starts up- a faster number- and I stand up and start to dance solo. Before I know what's happening, Mr Ciggy Breath (CB) has grabbed my hand and dragged me back over the other side of the dance floor and starts twirling me around, trying to grind up against me. I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song. Another dance and sloppy kiss on cheek later, I ponder over whether it would be considered bad etiquette to refuse a dance (even in a pub environment). But all I can think of is that horrible smell and how uncomfortable he makes me feel.

A couple of songs later, and I am dancing with a group of people this time. All of a sudden, CB's friend comes up to me and apologises for his friend who keeps asking me to dance. I try to explain to him about the situation but the music is so loud, and before I can get my response across properly, CB appears out of nowhere, extends his hand and asks me "want to dance?" I really cannot stomach dancing with him again so, I quickly dart between them and rejoin the group I was originally dancing with. (Was I rude here?)
 
I sit down to sip my drink and give my feet a rest for a couple of songs, still tapping my foot to the beat. One of the regulars sits down next to me and asks me if everything is okay. I tell him what happened and he offers to be my "minder" for the rest of the night, which is very kind of him! Then he gets up to go to the bar.....
Then guess who comes up to me AGAIN? You guessed it. "Want to dance?" Extends his hand, etc.
This time, I reply with "no thank you, I'd like to sit this one out."
His reply? "Why don't you want to dance?"
I reply. "I would like to take a rest."
He then leaves my table and doesn't approach me again for the rest of the night- thank goodness!

Is there any way I could have handled this better?

Thanks!

Amy.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Brentwood on December 04, 2011, 06:37:32 PM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: something.new.every.day on December 04, 2011, 06:41:27 PM
You can always say no--any time and for any (or no) reason.  "No thank you," is a sufficient response.  If you give an excuse (wanting to dance w/ someone else or wanting to sit a song out) he'll just come back later.  It's better to be upfront and shut him down kindly but firmly. 
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: AmyBird85 on December 04, 2011, 07:19:07 PM
Thanks for your feedback, and for clearing up something that has been bugging me for ages! In future I will just use a simple "no thank you" to anybody I don't wish to dance with.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: violinp on December 04, 2011, 07:19:51 PM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

POD.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: HorseFreak on December 04, 2011, 08:04:49 PM
I think I posted this on a recent thread about refusing dates, but here it is again: I went to my cousin's wedding a few years ago without my boyfriend (he was invited, but not included on the invitation and I wasn't going to be rude and ask) with my parents. A friend of the groom repeatedly asked me to dance, the first being a fast dance that ended about a minute after we started dancing. I tried to slip away after that, but he grabbed my hand and pulled me close for a slow number. I backed away appropriately far and completed that dance and excused myself. He asked AGAIN about 10 minutes later and I just smiled and shook my head since it was quite loud in there. He walked away, but I saw him talking to the groom (who I had never met before the wedding) and gesturing to me. My parents scolded me for being "rude" for refusing to dance with someone A) I didn't want to and B) wasn't my boyfriend. Even if I wasn't in a relationship, this man was in no way my type at all and I didn't want him to get the wrong idea.

If that man had kissed me after a single dance I wouldn't have been half as nice as you were. That's completely inappropriate, and besides, you are never rude to refuse a dance as long as you're polite about it. It's not 1830, I don't have a dance card and I don't have to touch anyone I don't want to.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: shhh its me on December 04, 2011, 08:17:06 PM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly .  In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: AmyBird85 on December 04, 2011, 08:20:33 PM
@HorseFreak: Thanks for your feedback. I am not currently in a relationship, but even if I was, I certainly wouldn't be too thrilled if the BF started grinding against me in public! I much prefer to save the "dirty dancing" for private moments.  >:D

Quote
If that man had kissed me after a single dance I wouldn't have been half as nice as you were. That's completely inappropriate, and besides, you are never rude to refuse a dance as long as you're polite about it. It's not 1830, I don't have a dance card and I don't have to touch anyone I don't want to.

Believe me, I don't know how I managed to hold my tongue... it was so cringeworthy! Even my dog doesn't slobber as much as he did!  :o
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Amava on December 04, 2011, 08:26:50 PM
That second time, you could certainly have broken away mid-song without being rude in any way. He was the rude one for grabbing you that way.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Brentwood on December 04, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly .  In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .

This was a bar and not at all comparable to any type of formal situation.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: tallone on December 04, 2011, 10:38:31 PM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly .  In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .

This was a bar and not at all comparable to any type of formal situation.

POD, there is no etiquette requirement in a bar to dance with anyone. In fact I find most patrons will fully support someone refusing to dance. I once frequented a fairly rough bar with the tiniest of dance floors which was packed every friday night, great local band who did amazing covers kept us all on our toes. Half the time it was regulars (truckies and tradies) and friday and saturday nights a younger crowd, including me and my friends, mixed in as well. One night I saw this one guy who would not stop pestering this pretty girl to dance. She kept shaking her head and walking away until finally he grabbed her by the arm and tried pulling her over despite her protestations.

At about that point the crowd of rough looking, heavily muscled truck drivers manning the bar did their best impression of older brothers and reminded Mr Grabby that the young lady did not have to dance with him just because he said so. Mr Grabby became Mr Contrite very, very fast.  ;)
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: shhh its me on December 04, 2011, 10:45:30 PM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly . In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .

This was a bar and not at all comparable to any type of formal situation.

POD, there is no etiquette requirement in a bar to dance with anyone. In fact I find most patrons will fully support someone refusing to dance. I once frequented a fairly rough bar with the tiniest of dance floors which was packed every friday night, great local band who did amazing covers kept us all on our toes. Half the time it was regulars (truckies and tradies) and friday and saturday nights a younger crowd, including me and my friends, mixed in as well. One night I saw this one guy who would not stop pestering this pretty girl to dance. She kept shaking her head and walking away until finally he grabbed her by the arm and tried pulling her over despite her protestations.

At about that point the crowd of rough looking, heavily muscled truck drivers manning the bar did their best impression of older brothers and reminded Mr Grabby that the young lady did not have to dance with him just because he said so. Mr Grabby became Mr Contrite very, very fast.  ;)

there has been more then one poster here who has said " why should my date with widow Auntie Em " , or " I'm married and  bride's maid I shouldn't have to dance 30 second of a waltz with a groom'sman" that formal etiquette is different bares saying.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Tai on December 04, 2011, 11:13:21 PM
You don't have to dance with anyone you don't want to. 

Since I am not likely to be invited to a state dinner or any other gala, I'll stick to this.  Only the most formal of formal events have the "you should not decline a dance" rule.  Weddings are family and friend events.  A member of a wedding party doesn't have to dance with anyone, either, unless they choose to.  There are many reasons why people don't dance, including religion, personal mortification at the lack of bodily rhythm, disability, or too tight shoes. 
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 04, 2011, 11:50:37 PM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly .  In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .

I think we need to stop dog piling on Merry Mrs Martin.  Her was response was to Cathy saying "It's not rude to refuse an offer to dance".  All Merry Mrs Martin was saying was that in some circumstances, it is rude to refuse.  Further, Merry Mrs Martin also made sure to say that it was not rude in that circumstance (the one about which the OP was speaking).
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Brentwood on December 05, 2011, 01:12:53 AM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly .  In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .

I think we need to stop dog piling on Merry Mrs Martin.  Her was response was to Cathy saying "It's not rude to refuse an offer to dance".  All Merry Mrs Martin was saying was that in some circumstances, it is rude to refuse.  Further, Merry Mrs Martin also made sure to say that it was not rude in that circumstance (the one about which the OP was speaking).

Two people - including me - responded to Merry Mrs Martin. That is hardly dogpiling. There actually was no reason to bring in the etiquette of a formal situation because most of us are basing our advice on the situation actually described in the OP. Had the question been, "Is it rude to refuse to dance with my new FIL at my wedding?", the answers might have been different. However, that was not the question. The question was specifically about a bar situation.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on December 05, 2011, 01:32:39 AM
OP, you're fine, you were not rude or anything
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 05, 2011, 01:42:07 AM
Quote
I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly .  In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .

I think we need to stop dog piling on Merry Mrs Martin.  Her was response was to Cathy saying "It's not rude to refuse an offer to dance".  All Merry Mrs Martin was saying was that in some circumstances, it is rude to refuse.  Further, Merry Mrs Martin also made sure to say that it was not rude in that circumstance (the one about which the OP was speaking).

Two people - including me - responded to Merry Mrs Martin. That is hardly dogpiling. There actually was no reason to bring in the etiquette of a formal situation because most of us are basing our advice on the situation actually described in the OP. Had the question been, "Is it rude to refuse to dance with my new FIL at my wedding?", the answers might have been different. However, that was not the question. The question was specifically about a bar situation.

My apologies, I did over generalize by saying there was dog piling.

However, we often bring up other instances where something may be rude but when there are instances it isn't.  I see no reason to even comment to Merry Mrs Martin that it wasn't a formal situation; she addressed that in her comment then moved on to a situation in which it may be rude.  It was not irrelevant to the topic.

Also, had the question been, "Is it rude to refuse to dance with my new FIL at my wedding?", someone very well might have answered, "Yes, but if it were a less formal situation, it probably wouldn't."  There is nothing with addressing the actual question then addressing it as it might apply to other situations.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: AmyBird85 on December 05, 2011, 04:06:47 PM
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback! Much appreciated and it has put my mind at rest!  ;D

I just wanted to verify as to whether the "rude to refuse a dance" theory applied only to formal settings or whether it applied to anywhere. Rest assured now that I will not feel guilty if someone approaches me in a bar to dance and I turn them away. Especially with all of the drunks and other less than desirable types. As I mentioned before, I don't mind dancing with anyone as long as they keep it clean and regard it as just a dance. Needless to say, I did not let the incident ruin my night!  ;)
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Reader on December 06, 2011, 08:51:21 AM
That second time, you could certainly have broken away mid-song without being rude in any way. He was the rude one for grabbing you that way.

POD to this.  I often go out to pubs/bars that have dancing by myself.  I often go to just dance because I really like to dance.  You are never under any obligation to stay dancing with someone especially when they become inappropriate.  I have horror stories of guys thinking just because I am dancing at the club means I have loose scrabble morals and have tried groping me inside my pants are other bits when I was in my twenties.  Or there was the one guy who thought it great fun to pick me up during dancing with no warning and swing me on a crowded dance floor.  If I am on the floor and someone tries to pull me to dance without asking I quickly pull my hand back and shake my head no when the music is loud.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: camlan on December 06, 2011, 09:32:01 AM
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback! Much appreciated and it has put my mind at rest!  ;D

I just wanted to verify as to whether the "rude to refuse a dance" theory applied only to formal settings or whether it applied to anywhere. Rest assured now that I will not feel guilty if someone approaches me in a bar to dance and I turn them away. Especially with all of the drunks and other less than desirable types. As I mentioned before, I don't mind dancing with anyone as long as they keep it clean and regard it as just a dance. Needless to say, I did not let the incident ruin my night!  ;)

Re the bolded: Merry Mrs. Martin touched on this, but I think it bears repeating--even in the most formal of circumstances, a woman can refuse to dance with any one who asks her. At a formal dance, she would then have to sit out that dance, in order to spare the feelings of the man who had asked her (even if the man of her dreams asked her to dance that particular dance). But there has never, that I know of, been a rule that a woman *had* to dance with a man just because he asked her.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: rashea on December 06, 2011, 12:24:46 PM
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback! Much appreciated and it has put my mind at rest!  ;D

I just wanted to verify as to whether the "rude to refuse a dance" theory applied only to formal settings or whether it applied to anywhere. Rest assured now that I will not feel guilty if someone approaches me in a bar to dance and I turn them away. Especially with all of the drunks and other less than desirable types. As I mentioned before, I don't mind dancing with anyone as long as they keep it clean and regard it as just a dance. Needless to say, I did not let the incident ruin my night!  ;)

Re the bolded: Merry Mrs. Martin touched on this, but I think it bears repeating--even in the most formal of circumstances, a woman can refuse to dance with any one who asks her. At a formal dance, she would then have to sit out that dance, in order to spare the feelings of the man who had asked her (even if the man of her dreams asked her to dance that particular dance). But there has never, that I know of, been a rule that a woman *had* to dance with a man just because he asked her.

By strict Emily Post:
 To refuse to dance with one man and then immediately dance with another is an open affront to the first one—excusable only if he was intoxicated or otherwise actually offensive so that the affront was both intentional and justifiable. But under ordinary circumstances, if she is “dancing,” she must dance with everyone who asks her; if she is “not dancing,” she must not make exceptions.

Actually, I think in this case, his behavior was offensive enough to the OP (you don't just start grind style dancing without knowing for sure the other person is into it) that I don't see an issue with refusing him. But, after he asked a second time, I'd just tell him I wasn't interested in general.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Venus193 on December 06, 2011, 12:34:45 PM
Quote
By strict Emily Post:
To refuse to dance with one man and then immediately dance with another is an open affront to the first one—excusable only if he was intoxicated or otherwise actually offensive so that the affront was both intentional and justifiable. But under ordinary circumstances, if she is “dancing,” she must dance with everyone who asks her; if she is “not dancing,” she must not make exceptions.

Considering that this rule comes from an era of s3xual repression I am perplexed that this demands unwanted touching of women who are assumed to be chaste or proper.

Of course there were many more layers of fabric in between and the lambada hadn't yet been invented.

I stopped going to Midsummer Night's Swing years ago because only the most repulsive men would ask me to dance.  Men who had been rejected by more attractive women because of bad breath or body odor.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: DavidH on December 06, 2011, 01:03:52 PM
I see nothing wrong with how you behaved and, although there wasn't a question, a great deal wrong with how he behaved.

Even though formal dances are more rare, some of the etiquette can carry over, e.g. you don't just cut in or haul the person away from who she is dancing with, you ask for the next dance or perhaps join the group dancing after asking or at least getting some positive feedback. 

Once the person had taken liberties with your person, a flat no is just fine, until then, some polite fiction is nice as in, "No thank you, I'm sitting this dance out" or "No thank you, I was just going to have a drink."

As has been alluded to, responding, "No, I'm sitting this one out" followed by saying yes to the person who asks a minute later is rather rude since it kind of ruins the fiction behind I'm sitting this one out.

Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: rashea on December 06, 2011, 01:46:57 PM

Even though formal dances are more rare, some of the etiquette can carry over, e.g. you don't just cut in or haul the person away from who she is dancing with, you ask for the next dance or perhaps join the group dancing after asking or at least getting some positive feedback. 


Oddly, this was considered acceptable. I think some of it may come from the fact that the most formal dances were hosted. So it was assumed that the people there had been vetted carefully by the host/hostess and so that would eliminate the worst offenders.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: poundcake on December 06, 2011, 02:46:04 PM
Quote
If that man had kissed me after a single dance I wouldn't have been half as nice as you were.

I actually think this here is the real center of the issue. OP is worried about being "rude" under these circumstances, and she's asked to be reassured that she wasn't, that in fact she was "nice" and "polite." But there is no reason why she had to be nice or polite to a drunk man who invaded her personal space. I'm not saying she had to scream "No, I won't dance with you, you drunk disgusting pig!" but she was in no way obligated to dance with or interact with this guy, any guy, at all.

Yes, you can refuse to dance with someone.
Yes, you can refuse to go out with someone.
No, you don't have to give reasons.

I sometimes go dancing with friends because I like the music and I like to dance, and since I'm married, I have no interest in dancing with anyone but my friends. When I get asked to dance, a simple "No thanks!" works. I've had a few guys be pushy and ask repeatedly, or demand to know why. "I said no, thank you" is a perfectly acceptable and polite follow-up. (This usually results in me being called a b*tch, not because I was impolite, but because they didn't get what they wanted and feel slighted.)

No matter how nice or polite a person is when asking for something, another person is not obligated to give it to them, be it a dollar, a date, or their dinner. And that doesn't make you "rude" any more than giving someone something that makes you uncomfortable makes you "nice."
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Gyburc on December 07, 2011, 08:06:03 AM
I think you did fine, and if it ever happens again, don't be worried about just saying 'no, thanks'. I did find it funny that even CB's friend knew he was being an oaf!

Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Carotte on December 07, 2011, 02:20:16 PM
Safety trumps etiquette, as soon as you feel uneasy or threatened you should stop the situation, even if it means being rude to someone.
Stopping dancing in the middle of a song can seem weird, so you could always say that you need to step out for fresh air, that you just saw someone you need to talk to....
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Nikko-chan on December 07, 2011, 07:08:35 PM
I have actually been there before. Not with a dance partner mind you, but with an odd guy sitting on the bench. I thought nothing of it, and when he moved himself close to me, my internal alarm went off and I made an excuse about having to go talk to some friends. Creepy Guy actually grabbed onto me from behind as I went to stand up, and held me close. I screamed, but because of how loud the music is in the establishment no one heard (or even saw) what was going on. It scared the heck out of him though and he left me alone.

All of that to say... I agree with the other posters in that you were not wrong in your actions. As for cutting the song short, you could have indeed done that if you were squicked out, and if something seemed "off".
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Goodness on December 12, 2011, 08:38:38 PM
Chiming in a little late here, but there is a simple, four-word phrase that anyone can say when someone steps over the manners line : "I beg your pardon?" If OP had said it at the first slippy kiss and then turned and walked away, Cig Guy would not have asked for a second dance -- probably; some guys need the proverbial clue-by-four upside the head.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: jayhawk on December 15, 2011, 05:20:04 AM
I've been thinking about this a little, and it occured to me that 40 years ago, this "gentleman" behavior (especially the kiss) would have earned him a smart slap across the face for being fresh.  Don't know if it's e-hell approved (probably not), but it would've certainly sent the message that his attentions were not invited or appreciated.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: WillyNilly on December 15, 2011, 04:10:57 PM
I've been thinking about this a little, and it occured to me that 40 years ago, this "gentleman" behavior (especially the kiss) would have earned him a smart slap across the face for being fresh.  Don't know if it's e-hell approved (probably not), but it would've certainly sent the message that his attentions were not invited or appreciated.

I go to a lot of bars, especially dives and especially bars with bands playing.  While in the regular scheme of life a slap across the face is not an appropriate response to most things, in bar, with a physically aggressive man, who is a stranger, who just planted an uninvited kiss on an unwilling young woman... yeah actually I think a physical response is ok.  Personally I'd probably do a shove, but seriously you never need to just stand there and allow a man to kiss you or take your hand and pull you, or grind up against you.  You can always refuse the dance, walk away or turn your back, pull away, or if needed physically pull away or physically push away someone aggressive.  Always.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: MrTango on December 16, 2011, 12:30:06 PM
You can always refuse the dance, walk away or turn your back, pull away, or if needed physically pull away or physically push away someone aggressive.  Always.

Seconded.  If necessary, make a scene.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Chip2 on December 19, 2011, 05:18:08 PM
I've been thinking about this a little, and it occured to me that 40 years ago, this "gentleman" behavior (especially the kiss) would have earned him a smart slap across the face for being fresh.  Don't know if it's e-hell approved (probably not), but it would've certainly sent the message that his attentions were not invited or appreciated.

I go to a lot of bars, especially dives and especially bars with bands playing.  While in the regular scheme of life a slap across the face is not an appropriate response to most things, in bar, with a physically aggressive man, who is a stranger, who just planted an uninvited kiss on an unwilling young woman... yeah actually I think a physical response is ok.  Personally I'd probably do a shove, but seriously you never need to just stand there and allow a man to kiss you or take your hand and pull you, or grind up against you.  You can always refuse the dance, walk away or turn your back, pull away, or if needed physically pull away or physically push away someone aggressive.  Always.

Thirded.  You can politely but firmly refuse a dance (or any other attention), but your request is ignored or you're physically accosted I think you're completely justified in making a scene.  And if you don't want to do that, talk to a bouncer or a bartender and let them make the scene for you.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: MissRose on January 25, 2012, 11:59:16 AM
You do not have to dance with anyone in a bar or club situation unless you want to do so.  Someone who just pulls me on the floor or gets really pushy with me just to get me to dance is not appreciated.

I was at this pub/club place when on vacation with one of my long time male friends.  He saw some people he worked with, introduced me to them while he got our first drinks of the night and there was some dancing going on which I joined in with that group of people and my friend.  Some guy tried to grind up against me & grope me, and my friend noticed his attempts as my back was turned, and he made sure the guy went away from me - it helps that my friend is 6ft 4in tall. 

That among other things why I prefer to go to such places in groups of people I know.
Title: Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
Post by: Softly Spoken on January 26, 2012, 12:38:27 AM
Podding everyone else and adding my own *yuck*.  :P
When I first started reading I was thinking "okay so the guy was clueless and too bad she wasn't a smoker too..." then I read that he KISSED HER  :o :o :o :o :o :o Oh ehell no he didn't!!!!! ishy ishy ishy...now I feel like I need a shower or something...

It really blows my mind (and leaves me quite steamed) when such nice polite people like AmyBird come on here, after being treated so rudely and disrespectfully and they still ask "was *I* rude?" I hate how rude people get away with inappropriate behavior because others mistake being meek for being "polite" and are too worried about their own potential rudeness to call out the boors that stalk uncouthlessly among us. We need more polite spine training...

Polite =/= doormat/victim. Mr. Slobbery McCigarettes is the one who belongs in ehell - or his butt bounced out of the club or maybe even jail for assault if he can't keep his body to himself.  >:(

No supposed "politeness" is worth a feeling of "wrong" in your gut. No one has the right to do anything to you or get anything from you in the name of etiquette, and if they think they do then they're the ones who deserve to visit ehell.

*end huff*