Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: NyaChan on December 12, 2011, 05:07:14 PM

Title: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, New Update #107
Post by: NyaChan on December 12, 2011, 05:07:14 PM
Hey - this is one of those, why did you tell me this?? moments, and I'm not sure what to do.

BG:  I have a Friend who is also friends with my close friend Jenny (from the birthweek thread).  She does not like or get along with Todd, Jenny's boyfriend  & my close friend.  When she makes comments around me about them usually centered around complaining about their "coupleyness" that no one but her seems to see or get upset about, I either point out that I saw nothing wrong with how they were acting or change the subject as soon as is humanly possible.  A particular point of mockery for Friend is that Todd and Jenny had rings made that reads T(heart)J & J(heart)T - A bit cheesy in my opinion, but they like it and that's what matters, besides - the rings are so discreet that I have yet to notice them.

Recently Jenny asked Friend to feed her cat while she and Todd were out of town.  Friend came to see me a couple of weeks later, and pulled out her cell and proceeded to laughingly tell me that she just had to show me a picture that she took and sent to her friends who don't go to our school & live in a different state.  I look over to her cell and my jaw drops.  Friend, while going into Jenny's apartment to feed her cat, found that Todd had forgotten his ring.  She took a picture of the ring and sent it out to her friends to show them an example of what she had been talking about all this time. 

I questioned her a bit as to what she had done - hoping against hope that the picture had been taken with permission and not during the time Jenny and Todd were out of town.  She said no, she had taken it when she went in to feed the cat.  I imagine my face was showing my shock, because she immediately said "Well it's not like I went looking for it in the apartment, he left it on the table!"  All I could think to say was "Wow.  I am NEVER leaving you alone in my apartment ever!"  Her response was limited to expressions of how her friends who had received the picture had thought it was hilarious and sooo ridiculous.  It was clear that she didn't think she had done anything wrong, and I didn't know what to say so I pretended to just start studying again so she would stop talking.

 Now I don't really know what to do.  What she did feels like a complete invasion of trust and privacy to me, but maybe I am overreacting?  At one point I even felt guilty because I had posted about the birthweek and wondered if I was just as bad - but then I didn't do that to mock them or be malicious.  Part of me keeps thinking of how I would feel if someone did that to me, and if a friend knew and didn't tell me, but Jenny would be extremely hurt to find that Friend did this, and right now is one of the most stressful times of the year - finals :(  Does anyone have an opinion on whether Friend crossed the line, and if so how bad of a violation is it?  Do you think I should tell Jenny what happened or would that just be stirring up trouble rather than helping? 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: artk2002 on December 12, 2011, 05:09:42 PM
I would say that your feeling is correct, that "Friend" cannot be trusted. After that, I certainly wouldn't be allowing her into my home unsupervised.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: DottyG on December 12, 2011, 05:14:00 PM
Looks to me like Friend is so jealous that she's about to burst.  Classic cover-up.

And I agree with Art.



Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on December 12, 2011, 05:15:51 PM
I would say that your feeling is correct, that "Friend" cannot be trusted. After that, I certainly wouldn't be allowing her into my home unsupervised.

I agree.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on December 12, 2011, 05:17:19 PM
Friend has too much interest in T & J relationship. The lady doth protest too much. 

I'd start bean dipping her anytime she mentions anything about the 'couple'.  The relationship is really none of her business.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: immadz on December 12, 2011, 05:19:11 PM
I agree with PPs, friend is not trustworthy at all. I am torn on the tell Jenny or not question. If I were Jenny, I would want to know that I was being mocked by someone I thought was a friend. On the other hand I think politeness dictates that one not carry tales.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Surianne on December 12, 2011, 05:21:29 PM
Hmm.  This is a ring they wear publically?  If so I don't really see it as a giant violation of trust to take a photo of it.  It's not something secret or private.  I've shared photos with friends before, for example of a friend's engagement ring that I thought was hideous that was posted on Facebook -- sometimes a quick email vent of "Oh goodness gracious this is the ugliest thing I've ever seen" to a friend can help me keep my polite face on in Real Life  ;D   I love venting to my far-away friends because I know it won't get back to people in town, so I can do it without worrying.  I'm guessing Friend is similar.

So to me this wouldn't be a huge deal.  I think you handled it well, in making it clear that it bothered you.  In the future, you can tell her that you don't want to hear her make fun of Todd and Jenny, and leave the room if she starts.  But I wouldn't tell Jenny this -- it would likely just upset her, and there's nothing really that Friend is doing wrong in her apartment.  If she were neglecting the cat, or taking photos of something private like underwear that would be different, and I'd say to let Jenny know right away.

Looks to me like Friend is so jealous that she's about to burst.  Classic cover-up.


Friend has too much interest in T & J relationship. The lady doth protest too much. 

It's not always a jealousy thing at all actually.  I love being single but I also make fun of "coupley-ness" and get annoyed by it.  Something like this ring would have me rolling my eyes hardcore.  I've had people accuse me of being jealous but...I'm really not.  At all.  I would never, ever want a relationship like that -- it's not for me in the slightest.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: artk2002 on December 12, 2011, 05:27:06 PM
Surianne,

You don't feel that it's a violation of trust, at least between Jenny and "Friend" to off essentially broadcasting "Ha! Ha! Look at that nitwit Todd.  He went on vacation and left his ring behind!" ? She was in the house to do one thing -- feed the cat. If this was because she's annoyed by the "couplyness" then she needs to address that issue with J & T, not go around mocking Todd in such a public way.  Especially not mocking him about something that no one would have known about had she not been granted the privilege of entering their home. (And yes, although she's doing them a favor, it's still a privilege to be given unsupervised access to someone else's home.)
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on December 12, 2011, 05:28:52 PM
Hmm.  This is a ring they wear publically?  If so I don't really see it as a giant violation of trust to take a photo of it.  It's not something secret or private. 

Even if it's a ring they wear publicly, making a photo shoot of it simply because it was unattended is an invasion of privacy. 

Especially if it's evident from the photos that the "friend" had handled the ring in any fashion.  Yes, the ring may have been on the coffee table, but snooping when you've agreed to feed the cat is not appropriate, and the photo can easily lead to reasonable implications about "friend's" preparedness to snoop. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: bah12 on December 12, 2011, 05:29:57 PM
It sounds like friend is jealous of the relationship.  Does she have a crush on one of them?

As for telling Jenny, my gut says to stay out of it, but this is a person she trusted to come into her home, who used that opportunity to openly mock her.  I imagine she will be extremely hurt to find out what kind of friend of this is.

Can you talk to this friend and tell her that what she did was egregious (sounds like you sort of have) and that she owes Jenny a huge apology?

Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: ettiquit on December 12, 2011, 05:31:06 PM
It would trouble me greatly if I found out a friend had taken a picture of something in my house for the express purpose of sending it to friends for a laugh.

I stopped having someone housesit for me when she expressed surprise by the fact that I didn't go through her beside table drawers one time when I housesat for her.  That said to me that she assumes everyone does this and to not assume my belongings won't be rifled through.  When you entrust someone to enter your home to care for a pet, water plants, etc., it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to only do the things they were asked to do. 

If you stumble upon something private while looking for cat food, that's one thing.  Coming across something and taking a picture of it like that? 

Despicable.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Teenyweeny on December 12, 2011, 05:32:25 PM
Well. My haircut is pretty public. I'd still feel annoyed if a 'friend' took photos of me, without my knowledge, and passed them around other friends for the sole purpose of mocking me.

Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: jimithing on December 12, 2011, 05:33:31 PM
It would trouble me greatly if I found out a friend had taken a picture of something in my house for the express purpose of sending it to friends for a laugh.

I stopped having someone housesit for me when she expressed surprise by the fact that I didn't go through her beside table drawers one time when I housesat for her.  That said to me that she assumes everyone does this and to not assume my belongings won't be rifled through.  When you entrust someone to enter your home to care for a pet, water plants, etc., it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to only do the things they were asked to do. 

If you stumble upon something private while looking for cat food, that's one thing.  Coming across something and taking a picture of it like that? 

Despicable.

I completely agree. It's one thing to send it to maybe one friend and laugh about it, it's quite another to take the picture and send it to many people with the intent to mock and make fun of it.

That shows very poor boundaries and judgement.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: WillyNilly on December 12, 2011, 05:33:57 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: bah12 on December 12, 2011, 05:34:31 PM
Hmm.  This is a ring they wear publically?  If so I don't really see it as a giant violation of trust to take a photo of it.  It's not something secret or private.  I've shared photos with friends before, for example of a friend's engagement ring that I thought was hideous that was posted on Facebook -- sometimes a quick email vent of "Oh goodness gracious this is the ugliest thing I've ever seen" to a friend can help me keep my polite face on in Real Life  ;D   I love venting to my far-away friends because I know it won't get back to people in town, so I can do it without worrying.  I'm guessing Friend is similar.

So to me this wouldn't be a huge deal.  I think you handled it well, in making it clear that it bothered you.  In the future, you can tell her that you don't want to hear her make fun of Todd and Jenny, and leave the room if she starts.  But I wouldn't tell Jenny this -- it would likely just upset her, and there's nothing really that Friend is doing wrong in her apartment.  If she were neglecting the cat, or taking photos of something private like underwear that would be different, and I'd say to let Jenny know right away.

Looks to me like Friend is so jealous that she's about to burst.  Classic cover-up.


Friend has too much interest in T & J relationship. The lady doth protest too much. 

It's not always a jealousy thing at all actually.  I love being single but I also make fun of "coupley-ness" and get annoyed by it.  Something like this ring would have me rolling my eyes hardcore.  I've had people accuse me of being jealous but...I'm really not.  At all.  I would never, ever want a relationship like that -- it's not for me in the slightest.

She's still mocking her friends.  Even if they wear the rings publically, she's taking pictures and sending them to others for the purpose of making fun of them.  It's mean.

And to me, I could roll my eyes at certain things that couples do (like dress alike), but just because I don't prefer it in my own relationship doesn't make it ok for me to take pictures of the clothes and email them to other friends so that we can laugh at them together.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on December 12, 2011, 05:34:37 PM


I completely agree. It's one thing to send it to maybe one friend and laugh about it, it's quite another to take the picture and send it to many people with the intent to mock and make fun of it.

That shows very poor boundaries and judgement.

I'm not really sure I see a difference here. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: ilrag on December 12, 2011, 05:37:24 PM
How attention grabbing are these rings? 

It doesn't really change the etiquette of the situation I'm just curious.

Are they plain bands, with writing on the inside?  Are they huge and bright colored and fit together like old school "best friends" necklaces?

Some times things are attention grabbing on purpose, and some times people go out of their way to find things to pick on.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Teenyweeny on December 12, 2011, 05:37:36 PM
There is a bit of a difference.


If I send a picture of my friend's hideous lamp to my sister, we're laughing at the lamp. My sister doesn't know any of my friends, she's just laughing at the ugly lamp.

If I invite a mutual friend to laugh at our friend's ugly lamp, I'm asking her to keep our mocking secret from our friend, and creating divisions in the group. Not cool.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Surianne on December 12, 2011, 05:40:25 PM
And to me, I could roll my eyes at certain things that couples do (like dress alike), but just because I don't prefer it in my own relationship doesn't make it ok for me to take pictures of the clothes and email them to other friends so that we can laugh at them together.

Just to clarify -- the rolling eyes part was in response to the accusations of jealousy.  I just wanted to make the point that not everyone who hates romantic gestures or PDA is automatically jealous. 

Couples *love* to jump to that defense, but sometimes people don't like that stuff because...they don't like it.  For me, it doesn't change when I'm in a relationship -- it's still not my thing.  I don't wear matching stuff, I don't let guys feed me fries, I don't kiss in public -- it's just not for me.  So her objection to the ring might be simply that it's cheesy and tacky and she's a little exhausted by Todd and Jenny's relationship (same couple from the birthday thread, I think).

So if the OP does decide to do something about this, I would leave accusations of jealousy out of it.  That will just make her angry and put her on the defensive (rightly so, imo). 

As for the rest -- I figured there wouldn't be much agreement with my post, so I'm happy to disagree on the privacy issue.  For me, personally, it isn't a big deal.  For others, it obviously is, and I don't think that feeling is wrong at all, it's just different from how I would react. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: bah12 on December 12, 2011, 05:40:47 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

Why is it ok to make fun of people any time?  She's mocking them.  I'd be really hurt if I found out a friend had done that to me.  It wouldn't make it feel any better that I didn't know the people she was laughing with.

And the ring and lamp are very different, IMO.  Saying "look at this recognizable lamp from a movie most everyone is familiar with and anyone can get" is not anywhere close to the same as "look at this personalized ring, symbolizing this couple's  relationship.  Isn't it worthy of a good laugh?"
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: lady_disdain on December 12, 2011, 05:41:56 PM
If it was no great deal, why didn't she ask the owner if she might take a picture of the ring? Probably because she knew the owner wouldn't like it. So taking it behind his back is an abuse of trust.

Then, to use this photo to make fun and mock them publicly? That is a serious breach of friendship. I don't expect my friends to approve everything I do and every choice I make, but I do expect them to refrain from mocking it and making a huge, public thing of something that was between me and my SO (in this case, Jenny and Todd don't seem to be flaunting their special rings, since the OP had never seen them herself). And, based on the OP, she sent the photos and rude comments to a very wide number of people, so it wasn't a case of a quiet vent either.

I think friend crossed quite a number of lines and I would rethink my level of trust in her, if not the friendship entirely. I would certainly not give her access to my private spaces.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: bah12 on December 12, 2011, 05:42:17 PM
How attention grabbing are these rings? 

It doesn't really change the etiquette of the situation I'm just curious.

Are they plain bands, with writing on the inside?  Are they huge and bright colored and fit together like old school "best friends" necklaces?

Some times things are attention grabbing on purpose, and some times people go out of their way to find things to pick on.

The OP said they were discreet to the point that she hasn't even noticed them.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: WillyNilly on December 12, 2011, 05:48:26 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

Why is it ok to make fun of people any time?  She's mocking them.  I'd be really hurt if I found out a friend had done that to me.  It wouldn't make it feel any better that I didn't know the people she was laughing with.

And the ring and lamp are very different, IMO.  Saying "look at this recognizable lamp from a movie most everyone is familiar with and anyone can get" is not anywhere close to the same as "look at this personalized ring, symbolizing this couple's  relationship.  Isn't it worthy of a good laugh?"

Well I think it is ok to make fun of people privately to one's friends so long as it never ever gets back to the people. That's why I opened with, my main issues - that the "friend" didn't do it privately. Had she just sent the pic to out of state folks, a totally non-mutual circle, that'd be fine IMO. Her rudeness was involving OP, who is friends with Todd & Jenny. Now its not private, but public. Also I think its rather low of this person to be putting on a front that she is friends CRIVINS! Todd & Jenny, since she clearly doesn't think much of them.





[/quote]
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: jimithing on December 12, 2011, 05:50:39 PM
There is a bit of a difference.


If I send a picture of my friend's hideous lamp to my sister, we're laughing at the lamp. My sister doesn't know any of my friends, she's just laughing at the ugly lamp.

If I invite a mutual friend to laugh at our friend's ugly lamp, I'm asking her to keep our mocking secret from our friend, and creating divisions in the group. Not cool.

Exactly. There are tons of things I share with my husband, and only him, that we think are funny, in private.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: ettiquit on December 12, 2011, 05:54:45 PM
Everyone talks about their friends and family, and not always in a nice way.  I love my BFF to pieces, but she can do things that drive me batty or are just plain silly.  I'll vent to my DH or mother about these things (or laugh about them).  It doesn't mean I love her any less of course.  We're human.  We gossip.

So it's not so much that this friend made fun of the ring with her far away friends.  It was taking a picture and sending it to them.  The internet is forever, so it's pretty dumb to do something like that without recognizing the risk of it coming back to haunt her. 

Involving the OP is a whole other issue.  I despise it when someone tells me something "bad" they've done to a mutual friend, and then expecting me to carry the burden of that secret. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: bah12 on December 12, 2011, 05:58:06 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

Why is it ok to make fun of people any time?  She's mocking them.  I'd be really hurt if I found out a friend had done that to me.  It wouldn't make it feel any better that I didn't know the people she was laughing with.

And the ring and lamp are very different, IMO.  Saying "look at this recognizable lamp from a movie most everyone is familiar with and anyone can get" is not anywhere close to the same as "look at this personalized ring, symbolizing this couple's  relationship.  Isn't it worthy of a good laugh?"

Well I think it is ok to make fun of people privately to one's friends so long as it never ever gets back to the people. That's why I opened with, my main issues - that the "friend" didn't do it privately. Had she just sent the pic to out of state folks, a totally non-mutual circle, that'd be fine IMO. Her rudeness was involving OP, who is friends with Todd & Jenny. Now its not private, but public. Also I think its rather low of this person to be putting on a front that she is friends CRIVINS! Todd & Jenny, since she clearly doesn't think much of them.





[/quote]

If I have to be completely honest, I can't say that I have never made fun of a friend privately...whether it be with my DH or a non-mutual friend.  But to me, there's something so wrong about this scenario.

Jenny obviously trusts this friend or else she wouldn't have granted her access to her home while she's out of town and this friend is not just laughing about a ring she doesn't like with another good friend or an SO. She's taking pictures of it and broadcasting it out to a lot of people...that's really not all that private to me....even if these people don't know them personally. 

I don't know.  I have a bachelor friend who is redecorating his house.  I don't like how he's doing it.  I think everything clashes.  I have commented on his decor to my DH and have mocked it...I think the things I said were hurtful and wrong.  Even though I trust my DH not to ever tell this guy what I said, if he were to find out, he'd be hurt, I'm sure.  I think that was mean of me and I feel bad about it.  It might be forgivable here on ehell (or may be not), but it was still mean.
I think it would have been over the top out of line if I had taken a picture of it and emailed it to a bunch of friends so they could also laugh at it.  I have a harder time letting that go...even if it does make me a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Mikayla on December 12, 2011, 06:15:53 PM
I'm really puzzled that anyone would say this is ok.  Todd and Jenny trusted her with their house key and pet care, and she repays this trust by taking photos of a ring solely to mock it and pass the photos on?   Also, some people might have missed the comment in the OP that she was sending the photos to faraway friends so they could see what she'd been "talking about all this time". 

I see a world of difference between private jokes shared between someone and their DH vs a malicious act like this.  Why?  Because once you send a photo, you lose control of where it goes.  It could easily land back on Jenny's phone.  If I jokingly comment about something to my DH or sibling...it stays there.  I wouldn't make the comment otherwise.

To me, this lands in my cut direct folder.  I can't even picture any of my close friends doing something so moronic, and I'd not hesitate to tell Jenny, either.   
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Magnet on December 12, 2011, 06:29:24 PM
I would never allow this "Friend" in my apartment unsupervised.  Yes, its a trust issue, and yes, its an invasion of privacy issue, and yes, its an etiquette issue, and sadly, yes, I have criticised my nearest and dearest to DH.  These are my friends/family; they are who I see and interact with on a daily basis.  They are relevant to me.

But these are comments.  They "stop" in a sense after my remark; however, cutting it may have been, and however much I regret it later. 

The picture taking?  The emailing?  It makes things....more permanent, more mean, more creepy, more unforgettable, in my opinion.  Maybe its a generational thing?  I am finding that more and more people have no problem posting their lives on the web, and thinking this is the norm.   
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Seraphia on December 12, 2011, 06:40:25 PM
Another point that would bother me. Assuming this ring is made of a precious metal, what Jenny has essentially done is: go into empty house, take pictures of something valuable, let a whole bunch of people know that there are valuable things in an empty house by texting that picture to a list of contacts who may or may not have equally questionable ethics.

Friendship issues aside, that's still not cool. I don't know most of the people in your phonebook, don't send them photos of my TV/laptop/jewelry, with the caption, "Look what I found while I was feeding my neighbor's cat while she's on vacation this week!" I don't want to be mocked or robbed, thank you.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Slartibartfast on December 12, 2011, 06:46:24 PM
Another point that would bother me. Assuming this ring is made of a precious metal, what Jenny has essentially done is: go into empty house, take pictures of something valuable, let a whole bunch of people know that there are valuable things in an empty house by texting that picture to a list of contacts who may or may not have equally questionable ethics.

Friendship issues aside, that's still not cool. I don't know most of the people in your phonebook, don't send them photos of my TV/laptop/jewelry, with the caption, "Look what I found while I was feeding my neighbor's cat while she's on vacation this week!" I don't want to be mocked or robbed, thank you.

Unless these rings had five-carat diamonds on them, the ring is very likely worth less than the TV, computer, stereo, etc. already in the house.  Resale on sentimental jewelry like this is horrible, anyway.  So while I get your point, I don't think worrying about friends (who live far away) coming to rob the place, or passing on the info to someone who would, is really realistic.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: gramma dishes on December 12, 2011, 06:47:45 PM
...  Jenny would be extremely hurt to find that Friend did this, and right now is one of the most stressful times of the year - finals :(   ...  Do you think I should tell Jenny what happened or would that just be stirring up trouble rather than helping?

Not during finals.  But if I were Jenny, I'd want to know.  Yes, it would hurt my feelings.  Yes, it would make me angry.  Yes, it might destroy my friendship with the person who used something special and precious to me as a basis for making fun of me and the person I'm currently dating.  I wouldn't like knowing that someone I trusted was making me a laughing stock all over the world.

But I'd want to know. 

I'd want to be absolutely certain that I never trusted this person anywhere near my personal belongings again.  I'd want to make sure I never told this person anything whatsoever about my personal life at all ever again.   This would definitely be a friendship destroying bomb and if I knew OP knew about this and hadn't told me, I'd sadly assume she was complicit.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: still in va on December 12, 2011, 07:11:03 PM
...  Jenny would be extremely hurt to find that Friend did this, and right now is one of the most stressful times of the year - finals :(   ...  Do you think I should tell Jenny what happened or would that just be stirring up trouble rather than helping?

Not during finals.  But if I were Jenny, I'd want to know.  Yes, it would hurt my feelings.  Yes, it would make me angry.  Yes, it might destroy my friendship with the person who used something special and precious to me as a basis for making fun of me and the person I'm currently dating.  I wouldn't like knowing that someone I trusted was making me a laughing stock all over the world.

But I'd want to know. 

I'd want to be absolutely certain that I never trusted this person anywhere near my personal belongings again.  I'd want to make sure I never told this person anything whatsoever about my personal life at all ever again.   This would definitely be a friendship destroying bomb and if I knew OP knew about this and hadn't told me, I'd sadly assume she was complicit.


and here i go agreeing with gramma dishes again.

it's not about the ring.  it really has nothing to do with that.  and i was one of those shaking my head at Todd having a "celebrate my girlfriend's birthday week".

this is a violation of privacy.  to me, it doesn't matter if friend took a picture of Todd's ring and made the sarcastic comments that she made, or of Jenny's undies hanging to dry in the shower (check out Jenny's grannie panties, girl seriously needs to start wearing thongs!), or her pantry cabinet (how uncool is it that Jenny eats Frosted Flakes for breakfast?  everyone knows the cool people eat Froot Loops!).  Jenny and Todd had their privacy violated in a major way by someone they trust.  i'd never trust that friend again.  ever.  and i would want the OP to tell me about it if i were Jenny.  definitely.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Brentwood on December 12, 2011, 07:16:13 PM
Well. My haircut is pretty public. I'd still feel annoyed if a 'friend' took photos of me, without my knowledge, and passed them around other friends for the sole purpose of mocking me.

That's a very good analogy.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Brentwood on December 12, 2011, 07:18:27 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's ever okay to take pictures of your friends' possessions to send to other people for the sole purpose of mocking or making fun. Is that something friends do to each other? Some friend.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: miranova on December 12, 2011, 07:21:07 PM
Well. My haircut is pretty public. I'd still feel annoyed if a 'friend' took photos of me, without my knowledge, and passed them around other friends for the sole purpose of mocking me.

That's a very good analogy.

I agree.  I would not be amused by anyone taking a photo of something in my home for the sole purpose of mocking it when I trusted them to be in it without me in the first place.

Honestly, I know some people don't like "cutesy" couples but as long as it's not in your face, keep the eye rolls to yourself.  A set of mathcing rings that the couple wears is about as inobtrusive as it gets!  Who cares?!  It makes them happy.  It's not like they are having a plane fly by to skywrite their names every morning and forcing you to watch (all yous general).
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: still in va on December 12, 2011, 07:22:36 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's ever okay to take pictures of your friends' possessions to send to other people for the sole purpose of mocking or making fun. Is that something friends do to each other? Some friend.

or to resurrect an old saying, "with friends like this, who needs enemies?"

i would want to know if someone i trusted to care for my pet and watch my home while i was out of town felt it was appropriate to take pictures of ANY of my personal possessions for the purpose of making fun of me.  it's a violation of my privacy and of my trust.  and you will no longer be a friend.  i'm also rekeying my doors. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: WillyNilly on December 12, 2011, 07:26:43 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's ever okay to take pictures of your friends' possessions to send to other people for the sole purpose of mocking or making fun. Is that something friends do to each other? Some friend.

Again, I don't think this is a good friend and to me that is the 'crime'. The photo was. Symptom not th problem IMO. To me the problem is that this person is lying o Todd & Jenny about liking Todd & Jenny. Because if she was actually their friend the photo thing wouldn't be malicious and mocking, and therefore it wouldn't be a problem. Or the photo would be malicious and mocking but wouldn't have been taken in their home unbeknownst to them (but rathr while in class or somthing).




Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Brentwood on December 12, 2011, 07:33:13 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's ever okay to take pictures of your friends' possessions to send to other people for the sole purpose of mocking or making fun. Is that something friends do to each other? Some friend.

Again, I don't think this is a good friend and to me that is the 'crime'. The photo was. Symptom not th problem IMO. To me the problem is that this person is lying o Todd & Jenny about liking Todd & Jenny. Because if she was actually their friend the photo thing wouldn't be malicious and mocking, and therefore it wouldn't be a problem. Or the photo would be malicious and mocking but wouldn't have been taken in their home unbeknownst to them (but rathr while in class or somthing).

If she were their friend, she wouldn't be mocking them far and wide to begin with.  So I don't think the only "crime" was in telling the OP about it; the "crime" was in doing it in the first place.  It was this statement: Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. that I strongly disagree with.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Allyson on December 12, 2011, 08:00:02 PM
To be completely honest, if one of my friends took a pic of something in my place, and emailed it to a nonmutual friend and made fun of it, I would really not care. But, bringing it to mutual friends and making a big thing of it would bother me. It would also bother me if someone was making repeated snarky comments about me and obviously didn't like me much, when I thought they did.

So, I'm for telling Jenny after finals, because this seems like something she should know--that her friend doesn't actually like her boyfriend at all, and maybe not her all that much.

I am also slightly bugged by jealousy accusations, just because it seems like it's something everyone jumps to and it's often not true. I am in a very happy relationship and would still eye-roll at some over the top displays. People can not like something without having any motive behind it--if I mock someone's pants, it's not because I secretly want them, and I don't think anyone would immediately think so, so I'm not sure why it's *always* assumed that's the case with PDA.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Bijou on December 12, 2011, 08:07:03 PM
Hmm.  This is a ring they wear publically?  If so I don't really see it as a giant violation of trust to take a photo of it.  It's not something secret or private.  I've shared photos with friends before, for example of a friend's engagement ring that I thought was hideous that was posted on Facebook -- sometimes a quick email vent of "Oh goodness gracious this is the ugliest thing I've ever seen" to a friend can help me keep my polite face on in Real Life  ;D   I love venting to my far-away friends because I know it won't get back to people in town, so I can do it without worrying.  I'm guessing Friend is similar.

So to me this wouldn't be a huge deal.  I think you handled it well, in making it clear that it bothered you.  In the future, you can tell her that you don't want to hear her make fun of Todd and Jenny, and leave the room if she starts.  But I wouldn't tell Jenny this -- it would likely just upset her, and there's nothing really that Friend is doing wrong in her apartment.  If she were neglecting the cat, or taking photos of something private like underwear that would be different, and I'd say to let Jenny know right away.

Looks to me like Friend is so jealous that she's about to burst.  Classic cover-up.


Friend has too much interest in T & J relationship. The lady doth protest too much. 

It's not always a jealousy thing at all actually.  I love being single but I also make fun of "coupley-ness" and get annoyed by it.  Something like this ring would have me rolling my eyes hardcore.  I've had people accuse me of being jealous but...I'm really not.  At all.  I would never, ever want a relationship like that -- it's not for me in the slightest.

Taking a picture of anything in someone's apartment without their knowledge and permission is clearly a step over the line of trust.  Their apartment is their private space and they allowed her entry only to feed the cat.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: crella on December 12, 2011, 08:07:11 PM
I think where this "Friend" character mesed up was in showing the OP. And in pretending to be Todd & Jennys friend when she doesn't really like them.

Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it's ever okay to take pictures of your friends' possessions to send to other people for the sole purpose of mocking or making fun. Is that something friends do to each other? Some friend.

Agreed. Making fun of them to people far or near, while pretending to be their friend, is just wrong, in my opinion.

Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: crella on December 12, 2011, 08:11:12 PM
Quote
I stopped having someone housesit for me when she expressed surprise by the fact that I didn't go through her beside table drawers one time when I housesat for her.

Eek...however, the thought crossed my mind that everyone else she'd had housesit for her could have gone through her bedside table drawers and she was sayingyou were the only one who hadn't, not that she thought it was a normal thing to do. I suppose the context of her comment made it clear to you which she meant.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: ettiquit on December 12, 2011, 09:15:56 PM
Quote
I stopped having someone housesit for me when she expressed surprise by the fact that I didn't go through her beside table drawers one time when I housesat for her.

Eek...however, the thought crossed my mind that everyone else she'd had housesit for her could have gone through her bedside table drawers and she was sayingyou were the only one who hadn't, not that she thought it was a normal thing to do. I suppose the context of her comment made it clear to you which she meant.

Oh yeah, I knew what she meant.  The context was that she apologized for anything "weird" I may have come across in the bedside tables. I never want to know what it was that I neglected to find.   :P
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Slartibartfast on December 12, 2011, 09:21:15 PM
Quote
I stopped having someone housesit for me when she expressed surprise by the fact that I didn't go through her beside table drawers one time when I housesat for her.

Eek...however, the thought crossed my mind that everyone else she'd had housesit for her could have gone through her bedside table drawers and she was sayingyou were the only one who hadn't, not that she thought it was a normal thing to do. I suppose the context of her comment made it clear to you which she meant.

Oh yeah, I knew what she meant.  The context was that she apologized for anything "weird" I may have come across in the bedside tables. I never want to know what it was that I neglected to find.   :P

Yeah . . . I was catsitting for some friends once and found out a LOT more about their scrabble life than I wanted to know.  (They left a "scrabble board" lying out in the guest bedroom, the doorway of which I had to pass to get to the cats' food bowls . . )  The thing is, I'm SURE they came home and realized I must have seen their "toys," but it took months before my friend and I happened to have a conversation which touched on scrabble and this particular aspect of it enough for us to obliquely say "Did you see something?"  "Yeah, but it's cool, I've got no issues with that type of game in general or you playing it specifically."  "Cool."
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: crella on December 12, 2011, 09:22:27 PM
Quote
Oh yeah, I knew what she meant.

Oh boy....having my things looked through would really bother me, I'd never think to open a drawer or closet in someone else's home.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: katycoo on December 12, 2011, 09:28:31 PM
The issue and breach of trust is the purpose for which she took the photo.  Which was to mock.  What a crappy friend.

If she liked the ring, and had told friends about it, and sent the pic to show it off, I wouldn't be overly concerned.  They left it out, and its not especially private as everyone knows about it.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: NyaChan on December 13, 2011, 12:18:05 AM
OP here,

How attention grabbing are these rings? 

It doesn't really change the etiquette of the situation I'm just curious.

Are they plain bands, with writing on the inside?  Are they huge and bright colored and fit together like old school "best friends" necklaces?

Some times things are attention grabbing on purpose, and some times people go out of their way to find things to pick on.

The rings are just plain gold, nothing flashy.  The only reason I even knew they existed was because Friend made a point of telling me.  The top of the rings basically form the letter T, then a heart, then a J (and then the reverse for the other ring), all in gold, flat on the natural curve of the ring

The picture was a close-up of Friend's palm with the ring sitting on top, nothing else in the apartment could be seen so I don't think there is any security risk here.  Friend had been telling all these friends from out of town about Todd & Jenny and the ring was one of the things that she would mention to them.  I believe she sent the picture to show a physical representation of the ring that she had already been describing to them. 

I don't know how valid a case there is for jealousy here.  Friend does have something of a relationship going, though it is long distance.  I am more concerned that Jenny doesn't realize that when she confides in Friend or just speaks around her, the information is not staying with Friend - it goes to multiple states in the US and to some of Jenny's local friends.  As of yet the information hasn't been anything that I think she wouldn't want me or her other friends to know, but I don't think she realizes the negative spin that Friend puts on it.

As for boundaries for pet-sitting, well...this isn't actually an isolated incident, though the last one was a bit different.  Friend was asked to feed my best friend's (BFF) cat while she was visiting family (I wasn't back from my vacation to do it for her the first 2 days).  Friend and I were hanging out in town and she casually mentions that she has been using BFF's apartment to study every day while she has been gone.  Friend was not just sitting in the main area where BFF entertains friends and the cat stuff was kept for this week, she was going into the study/guest room and using BFF's desk.  She even invited me over to BFF's apartment to play with the cat and study together - I declined.  I asked BFF when she came back if this was the arrangement they had made, because it just seemed odd to me, especially since it seemed inappropriate to invite someone over to someone else's apartment when they weren't there. 

As it turns out, BFF had no idea that Friend had been using her apartment at all let alone inviting someone over to hang out and was both surprised and upset.  Friend had no hesitation in talking about it to me, was very casual in mentioning it, so I think that as far as she is concerned, she didn't do anything out of the ordinary.   

Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: helixa on December 13, 2011, 12:45:31 AM
Just out of curiousity, is this the same "friend" who you mentioned in the birthweek thread as making snarky comments?
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: shhh its me on December 13, 2011, 01:47:33 AM

Taking a picture of anything in someone's apartment without their knowledge and permission is clearly a step over the line of trust.  Their apartment is their private space and they allowed her entry only to feed the cat.
[/quote]

I was about to say the same thing............ then I thought what if she took a photo of the cat doing something adorable , would I think if I received "I took this photo of my friends cat while I was cat sitting , isn't it the cutest thing ever?" I'm not sure rude would even occur to me.  I'm not sure friends was rude until she talked to OP but that doesn't mean she isn't a meanspirited person I would ever want to be friend with KWIM?
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: squashedfrog on December 13, 2011, 04:00:51 AM
rolling your eyes at overly cutesy friends in a relationship?  Yep I think we've all done it at some point.

Making a comment to a mutual friend in private about it being OTT, yes I can see that. 

Taking a picture of the ring, putting it on line for other people to see and going AHAHAHA!!!HAHAHAHAAAA!!!!  ...weird.  Just weird. 

Far too invested in someone elses relationship, jealousy or no jealousy.  its just really weird behaviour and steps over the line.   If this was my house, I'd want to know, and would probably want to take a step back on the friendship, simply because its odd behaviour.  Its it not jealousy, i'd still think there's some level of bitterness or nastiness going on there.

Incidentally I burned my ring finger on the hob on Sunday and have had to take off my wedding engagement ring while it heals.  I do hope no-one goes into my house, sees them and starts jumping up and down in glee about what this means about my commitment level to my DH.   ::) 

Mind, it was an awesome bacon sammich and totally worth it.  Bacon battle scar.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: still in va on December 13, 2011, 07:04:54 AM
OP, with the additional information in post #46, it's pretty obvious that Friend has absolutely no sense of boundaries. 

if i had this information, i'd be moving Friend to acquaintance status pretty quickly, and never tell her anything that i didn't want 50 of her dearest friends to know about. it's that principle that if she's talking about a mutual friend to me behind their back, she's probably talking about me to someone else behind mine.

i'd also never ask her to care for my home while i was out of town, or give her an "emergency" key. you already know of two instances, from her own mouth, where she has massively overstepped.

oh yes, and tell Jenny about what happened. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: ettiquit on December 13, 2011, 08:18:22 AM

I was about to say the same thing............ then I thought what if she took a photo of the cat doing something adorable , would I think if I received "I took this photo of my friends cat while I was cat sitting , isn't it the cutest thing ever?" I'm not sure rude would even occur to me.  I'm not sure friends was rude until she talked to OP but that doesn't mean she isn't a meanspirited person I would ever want to be friend with KWIM?

Ok, I wouldn't care if someone took a pic of my cat being cute while housesitting, although I think I'd prefer that they send the picture to me as well. 

But this is a good point, because there's a definite grey area here.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: lady_disdain on December 13, 2011, 10:18:02 AM

I was about to say the same thing............ then I thought what if she took a photo of the cat doing something adorable , would I think if I received "I took this photo of my friends cat while I was cat sitting , isn't it the cutest thing ever?" I'm not sure rude would even occur to me.  I'm not sure friends was rude until she talked to OP but that doesn't mean she isn't a meanspirited person I would ever want to be friend with KWIM?

Ok, I wouldn't care if someone took a pic of my cat being cute while housesitting, although I think I'd prefer that they send the picture to me as well. 

But this is a good point, because there's a definite grey area here.

The perfect way would be to send the picture to the owner and say something like "see how cute Fluffy is! Do you mind if I share this photo with friends?"
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: 567Kate on December 13, 2011, 10:53:23 AM

I was about to say the same thing............ then I thought what if she took a photo of the cat doing something adorable , would I think if I received "I took this photo of my friends cat while I was cat sitting , isn't it the cutest thing ever?" I'm not sure rude would even occur to me.  I'm not sure friends was rude until she talked to OP but that doesn't mean she isn't a meanspirited person I would ever want to be friend with KWIM?

Ok, I wouldn't care if someone took a pic of my cat being cute while housesitting, although I think I'd prefer that they send the picture to me as well. 

But this is a good point, because there's a definite grey area here.

The perfect way would be to send the picture to the owner and say something like "see how cute Fluffy is! Do you mind if I share this photo with friends?"

I also feel like it's different to take a picture of the cat since you're there specifically to take care of the cat. You obviously will be paying attention to the cat. That seems different to me than snooping around their possessions to take a picture. (I get that the ring was out in the open, but I still feel like people should keep up the pretense of not looking through other people's stuff when doing a favor like this.)
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: gramma dishes on December 13, 2011, 11:41:17 AM
^^^  Four days of no utility bills for them!  Nice.  Did they also raid your refrigerator?  Use up all your toilet paper? 
Good grief!  Talk about taking advantage!  Hope you weren't paying her anything to feed your cat.  And I hope your cat and their dog came to some sort of agreement that they would not harass each other for the four days they were forced to spend together.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: NyaChan on December 13, 2011, 01:24:41 PM
Just out of curiousity, is this the same "friend" who you mentioned in the birthweek thread as making snarky comments?

Actually it was! :D haha ok I guess I didn't do as good a job at obscuring her identity as I thought I did. 

The friend was rude to take the picture and laugh about it with her friends.  I see that as a violation.  A minor one, but still a violation.

Now...that reminded me of another story.  I once went away for 4 days, and asked a friend to come look in on my cat for those days.  She AND HER FAMILY(complete with dog!) moved right into my apartment(!) for all four days!! They used my kitchen and bathroom and slept in my bed!   I thought we were friends, but not quite to this extent.  Granted, they left everything clean, but still......*shudder*  Before I could unpack and settle in, I had to change the sheets on my bed.  I was so squicked out.

I never asked her to watch my cat again.


Wow. Just wow.  I would be incredibly creeped out by this.  I can't imagine how it must have felt to walk in the door and be like  ??? "Oh dear...hello Friend and...Friend's entire family...? Did you enjoy your stay?"

Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: NutMeg on December 13, 2011, 04:37:17 PM
I would feel incredibly violated if I asked someone to come into my home while I was not there, and found out that they had taken pictures of my belongings and shared them with others for the purpose of mocking me. Actually, I would feel violated regardless of the purpose. I am very private and I do not like others in my private spaces if at all possible. There are very few people who I would be comfortable with having in my home if I was not there.

Couples *love* to jump to that defense, but sometimes people don't like that stuff because...they don't like it.  For me, it doesn't change when I'm in a relationship -- it's still not my thing.  I don't wear matching stuff, I don't let guys feed me fries, I don't kiss in public -- it's just not for me. 

That's me! SO is very touchy-feely, so he was pretty surprised to learn that I am, but only in private. If we are in the presence of another person, I do not want to kiss beyond a quick peck to say hello/goodbye, have a long lingering hug, etc. I am ok with hand holding or arm in arm if we are walking somewhere, and that's about it! I'm fine if other people do those things (to a certain extent), but it is not for me.

Funny, I think there is a theme here... :P
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: jedikaiti on December 13, 2011, 04:58:20 PM

I was about to say the same thing............ then I thought what if she took a photo of the cat doing something adorable , would I think if I received "I took this photo of my friends cat while I was cat sitting , isn't it the cutest thing ever?" I'm not sure rude would even occur to me.  I'm not sure friends was rude until she talked to OP but that doesn't mean she isn't a meanspirited person I would ever want to be friend with KWIM?

Ok, I wouldn't care if someone took a pic of my cat being cute while housesitting, although I think I'd prefer that they send the picture to me as well. 

But this is a good point, because there's a definite grey area here.

I would probably take the pic for the purpose of sending it to the human, probably with a cutesy message from the cat along the lines of "I miss you, but JK is being an acceptable servant in your absence. Have fun!"
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: cheyne on December 13, 2011, 05:04:25 PM
Taking a picture of someones cat and passing it on to friends is not mocking.  Taking a picture of a "sweetheart" ring and passing it on to friends with disparaging comments is mocking.

I would be livid and issue the cut direct to a "frenemy" who did this to me.  If one of my friends knew about it and didn't tell me, they would be swiftly relegated to acquaintance status. 

There are some things you just don't do in a friendship.  Mocking someone so publicly with evidence you wouldn't have if not for the trust of the person you are mocking is completely beyond the pale.

Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: SuperMartianRobotGirl on December 13, 2011, 05:16:45 PM
I would be upset if anyone who was feeding my cat while I was on vacation took and sent out a photo of anything in my home, except the cat with a "this is the cat I'm feeding" message. Taking photos of anything else is overstepping boundaries.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Amava on December 13, 2011, 05:30:17 PM
I would definitely want to know if a so-called "friend" was making fun of me behind my back. Pictures or no pictures, talking or emailing, I don't care. For me, friendship requires respect. And if people don't respect me, I tend to lose respect for them, too.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: NutMeg on December 13, 2011, 05:42:58 PM
Maybe I'm paranoid, but in the internet age I do not like the idea of pictures of my belongings getting out of my control. I am pretty careful about the pictures I put on the internet, and I really don't like the idea of someone potentially bypassing that consideration. It might be a completely innocent picture, but I still want to know about it and decide if I want it to be out of my control. If it is taken of me in public, fine. If it is taken in my house without my knowledge, not cool.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: immadz on December 13, 2011, 05:47:14 PM
You know I wouldn't have been too bothered if cat-sitter had taken a picture and sent it along to her best friend with a " This is so cute, I want one too." It would have sort of been a violation of privacy but to me the intent makes all the difference.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: gramma dishes on December 13, 2011, 06:36:06 PM
You know I wouldn't have been too bothered if cat-sitter had taken a picture and sent it along to her best friend with a " This is so cute, I want one too." It would have sort of been a violation of privacy but to me the intent makes all the difference.

I hadn't thought about it in that way, but you're right.  Yes, it still would have been an invasion of privacy, but the attitude would be of a 'little bit of envy and wistfulness' variety rather than the "isn't this ridiculous and stupid and infantile?" variety. Therefore complimentary rather than mocking.  I agree -- it would make a huge difference!

I would probably take the pic for the purpose of sending it to the human, probably with a cutesy message from the cat along the lines of "I miss you, but JK is being an acceptable servant in your absence. Have fun!"

This is a very cute idea.  I love it. 

I think we all agree that taking a picture of the cat would have been fine (as long as she wasn't saying "Look how ugly this stupid cat is.  I can't believe I agree to babysit for it.  Isn't it creepy and mangy?").  At least she was supposed to be looking at the cat.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: NyaChan on December 17, 2011, 02:16:47 PM
Non-Update Update:  I decided that I need to at least tell Jenny that Friend is not supportive of her relationship and warn her about sharing information with Friend.  I don't think that I will include specific examples, such as the ring story when talking to her about this.  I was waffling on that because on one hand I want Jenny to take the warning seriously, but on the other (and yes, I know this is kind of selfish), if Jenny reacts badly or if Todd reacts badly then it is going to cause serious trouble in our social group/study group. 

That Friend is not supportive wouldn't be so surprising, likely just a confirmation of what Todd already thinks or for Jenny, the a realization that Friend's attitude towards Todd extends to her as well.  Jenny might react by being just polite but not friendly, but I know Todd would just cut her off and he won't do it quietly.  In this gossipy atmosphere, it is almost certain that people will know that I'm the one who told them. 

I had planned to tell Jenny after Todd left for winter break as I figured it was really more about her than him, but it turns out that I mixed up their flight times so she was gone and only Todd was left.  I drove him to the airport and almost said something (sigh, finals has left my brain completely ravaged), but luckily I bit my tongue.  I will probably go for coffee or a drink with Jenny when I get back in town and talk to her about it.  Thanks for all your advice and input!!  I will let you know how it goes in January...
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: gramma dishes on December 17, 2011, 02:24:09 PM
Good, but you need to plan carefully exactly what you're going to say because if I were Jenny and you just said something to the effect of you didn't think Other Friend was supportive of my and Todd's relationship, I'd want to know why you said that.  I'm pretty sure I'd ask for examples of Other Friend's behavior that made you think that.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Danismom on December 17, 2011, 02:51:53 PM
Actually if she took a picture of Todd's ring, I think you should talk to him.  He's as wronged if not more so than his girlfriend.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: PaddedPaws on December 17, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
Hope your talk with Jenny goes well. Keep us updated.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Twik on December 17, 2011, 08:13:39 PM
Taking a quick pic of a ring left out in the open on a table and ending it to far away, non-mutual riends to make fun of these people I think was fine. I mean if it had been a picture of a lamp "hey look the people I'm cat sittin for have the leg lamp from A christmas Story!" would it be a violation? I don't think so; No different then a ring left on a table.

Sorry, no, not fine. Talking behind other people's back, and taking photos in their home when they are not there, is not "fine".
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Last_Dance on December 19, 2011, 07:31:51 AM
Friend sounds like a busybody. I definitely wouldn't trust her in my house.

Friend apparently doesn't respect people around her - or that little thing called "sentimental value."
It might have been just a tacky ring to her, but it meant something to Jenny and Todd and Friend went out of her way to make fun of it.
This girl hasn't got a tactful bone in her body.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Winterlight on December 19, 2011, 09:05:34 AM
OP, with the additional information in post #46, it's pretty obvious that Friend has absolutely no sense of boundaries. 

if i had this information, i'd be moving Friend to acquaintance status pretty quickly, and never tell her anything that i didn't want 50 of her dearest friends to know about. it's that principle that if she's talking about a mutual friend to me behind their back, she's probably talking about me to someone else behind mine.

i'd also never ask her to care for my home while i was out of town, or give her an "emergency" key. you already know of two instances, from her own mouth, where she has massively overstepped.

oh yes, and tell Jenny about what happened.

This. I would want to know, in Jenny's shoes, that I have trusted the wrong person.

I rent a basement apartment which my landlady can access. I know she goes through the hall to do laundry, but I feel perfectly secure that she's not snapping pictures of random objects  in my home. She is trustworthy, Friend is not.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: camlan on December 19, 2011, 09:13:10 AM
Non-Update Update:  I decided that I need to at least tell Jenny that Friend is not supportive of her relationship and warn her about sharing information with Friend.  I don't think that I will include specific examples, such as the ring story when talking to her about this.  I was waffling on that because on one hand I want Jenny to take the warning seriously, but on the other (and yes, I know this is kind of selfish), if Jenny reacts badly or if Todd reacts badly then it is going to cause serious trouble in our social group/study group. 

That Friend is not supportive wouldn't be so surprising, likely just a confirmation of what Todd already thinks or for Jenny, the a realization that Friend's attitude towards Todd extends to her as well.  Jenny might react by being just polite but not friendly, but I know Todd would just cut her off and he won't do it quietly.  In this gossipy atmosphere, it is almost certain that people will know that I'm the one who told them. 

I had planned to tell Jenny after Todd left for winter break as I figured it was really more about her than him, but it turns out that I mixed up their flight times so she was gone and only Todd was left.  I drove him to the airport and almost said something (sigh, finals has left my brain completely ravaged), but luckily I bit my tongue.  I will probably go for coffee or a drink with Jenny when I get back in town and talk to her about it.  Thanks for all your advice and input!!  I will let you know how it goes in January...

To be blunt, I think the serious trouble in your social group is going to happen at some point. With a "friend" like this, I'm anticipating that she'll do something, at some point in time, to someone and then all heck will break loose.

OP, you know your friends better than I do. But I would be seriously upset with a friend who knew about the violation of my personal space and didn't tell me.

I know you are trying to to the right thing, and I know it isn't going to be easy to have any kind of conversation about this "friend." But I think it is hard to provide evidence for something as vague as "she doesn't support your relationship," and a lot easier to prove that Jenny shouldn't let this "friend" into her home again.

Truthfully, I wouldn't care if someone didn't support my relationship with my guy. That's their business.  As long as I am happy in my relationship, I don't really care what someone else thinks. I would, however, really want to know that someone I thought I could trust was taking pictures of my home while I wasn't there and sending them out with snarky comments. And if I found out months later that other people knew about that violation of trust and didn't tell me, I'd feel I couldn't trust those people at all, either.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: NyaChan on December 19, 2011, 09:59:56 AM

To be blunt, I think the serious trouble in your social group is going to happen at some point. With a "friend" like this, I'm anticipating that she'll do something, at some point in time, to someone and then all heck will break loose.

OP, you know your friends better than I do. But I would be seriously upset with a friend who knew about the violation of my personal space and didn't tell me.

I know you are trying to to the right thing, and I know it isn't going to be easy to have any kind of conversation about this "friend." But I think it is hard to provide evidence for something as vague as "she doesn't support your relationship," and a lot easier to prove that Jenny shouldn't let this "friend" into her home again.

I have been thinking more about what I'd specifically say.  Honestly I don't think I would actually say "she doesn't support your relationship" because I don't think I could pull it off and Jenny would likely burst out laughing.  I'd probably just bring it up along the lines of:

"Hey I want to talk to you about something.  I consider both you and Todd my friends, and I think that you should know about this, I don't want you to get blindsided and I just want to drop you a warning.  You know how Friend gets really negative/obsessed about certain things, like her and "The Troll?" (Jenny will know what that means)  I know gossip isn't exactly unusual around here, but over last semester, I was noticing things that she was saying about you and Todd that I know I would want someone to tell me.  It's gotten to the point that pretty much any time she notices anything that you guys do as a couple, whether it's just doing something sweet for each other or sharing dessert, etc., it gets retold with x10 snarkiness.  But it isn't limited to her saying it here, she has been doing it with her friends from XUniversity, like how she got with the "Practically Perfect" thing (and wow I just realized how many of these "things" Friend has...).  It may not be a big deal to you, but I wanted to tell you so that at least you are forewarned that what you say to her, doesn't stay with her."

Ok that was a general idea of what I was thinking.  Though now that I think about the situations that I was alluding to, I'm wondering if the picture issue would even make things worse or if it is just more of the same thing.  Alright, I have a feeling that when it comes down to it, I'm going to tell her about it.  I hate hiding things, especially something like this.  So maybe I'd follow up with a "There's once incident in particular that I need to tell you about..."

ETA:  I am realizing that most of my discomfort with this situation stems from the fact that I don't feel comfortable presenting myself as Jenny's friend while keeping something that is hurtful to her to myself - that's not being a real friend.  I'm going to have to share that part.  If other people get upset, well, at least I know I'll have a less murky conscience. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Winterlight on December 19, 2011, 10:14:10 AM
I think she needs to know about the picture issue so she doesn't trust Friend to catsit for her in future. I would want to be informed that a person I've entrusted a key to is using their access to poke fun at me.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Sterling on December 19, 2011, 11:05:23 AM
I would be hurt by this as well.  My fiance nad I are that couple.  I try not to be to bad about it but we do hold hands alot and are coupley.  I would have been really hurt ot find out someone who pretends to me a friend was making fun of me.  At our Yule party this weekend he gave me a gift that I would never have expected and I couldn't help but cry it was so touching.

Our friends were there and iff I ever found out one of them went around amking fun of us after than I probably would no longer be friends with that person.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: NutMeg on December 19, 2011, 05:55:35 PM
OP, I would want to know about the picture if I were your friend. Taking a picture of the inside of my house and sending it to other people without my knowledge is a violation. Maybe others wouldn't feel that way, but I do, and if your friend feels the same way she needs to know.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Danismom on December 19, 2011, 06:18:50 PM
I suggest leaving out all the information and history that you use in the example to lead up to this incident.  Simply come out and tell Jenny what friend said/did.  I wouldn't try to explain it or shape it in any way.  I would let it stand for itself.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Moralia on December 19, 2011, 09:55:05 PM
Wow. She told people that her friend was out of town and that there were unsecured valuables lying around. That is a huge breach of trust IMO.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted - Non Update p80
Post by: NyaChan on January 25, 2012, 08:08:23 PM
Well we are all back at school, and I am going to be seeing Jenny alone for the first time tomorrow night & was planning on talking to her then.  However, there are some things that have happened since which are making me waffle a bit. 

1)  Jenny shared with me in confidence that a family member is suffering from a degenerative disease that is getting pretty bad - enough that she changed her summer work plans so that she could be near her while she might still recognize her. 

2)  Friend has been acting really strangely lately.  She apparently did better in school this past semester than she has in the past & won't stop hinting about it.  Friend has been essentially manipulating people into telling them their grades and then going behind their backs to share it with everyone else - she is really skilled at doing this, because I knew she had been sussing out people's grades and she still managed to get one out of me.  She had the nerve to say something uncharitable to me about my BFF at school's grades not being as good as usual (though really BFF has a rank & GPA even now that Friend cannot at this point match by the time she graduates even if she gets straight A's) and makes a point, even after BFF asked her to stop, of bringing up how well she did in the class that BFF was most upset about.     

3) She won't stop telling me negative things about Todd.  I had a conversation with her during which I exhausted myself trying to bean dip where I could and defending him and my BFF when avoiding the topic was impossible.
Ex:  she in Todd are in a class together.  She gchats me saying "so funny, Todd just volunteered an answer and got it WRONG!" or complaining that Todd likes to pretend he is all romantic but really he only cares about that stuff when it involves him.  In the latter example, Friend had passed Todd her phone to show him and Jenny the sweet text her psuedo-boyfriend had sent her, but apparently Todd - who has never met the guy!! - did not show the appropriate enthusiasm.  These are only 2 of the many many things she has tried to tell me about.

Right now I am so angry with her for continually putting me in this position & whatever parts of her that I liked before seem to be MIA or just not standing up to the negativity.  I've taken to just not responding at all if she brings someone else up & if I didn't sit next to her in one of my classes (have a seating chart so I can't move), I would seriously consider just avoiding her altogether even if it did cause drama.

Now here is why I am waffling - I don't want to stress Jenny out right after she has told me about her family member.  Also I am worried that since I am so angry at Friend right now, I might say too much.  I will readily admit that my tongue tends to runaway with me when I am angry. 

I am leaning towards doing my breathing exercises to calm down and then very calmly telling Jenny that I don't want to upset her during this difficult time, but I think she needs to know xyz so that she can be aware and protect herself. 

What do you guys think?  Is this a bad time to tell Jenny?
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: gramma dishes on January 25, 2012, 08:27:33 PM
Jenny is not the one with the degenerative disease.  I'm sure Jenny is concerned about her family member, but there is nothing she can do beyond what she's already done and continuing to do. 

I don't know Jenny.  But ...

If I were in Jenny's shoes, I'd want to know. 

Now.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted - Non Update p80
Post by: flowersintheattic on January 25, 2012, 08:50:40 PM
Well we are all back at school, and I am going to be seeing Jenny alone for the first time tomorrow night & was planning on talking to her then.  However, there are some things that have happened since which are making me waffle a bit. 

1)  Jenny shared with me in confidence that a family member is suffering from a degenerative disease that is getting pretty bad - enough that she changed her summer work plans so that she could be near her while she might still recognize her. 

2)  Friend has been acting really strangely lately.  She apparently did better in school this past semester than she has in the past & won't stop hinting about it.  Friend has been essentially manipulating people into telling them their grades and then going behind their backs to share it with everyone else - she is really skilled at doing this, because I knew she had been sussing out people's grades and she still managed to get one out of me.  She had the nerve to say something uncharitable to me about my BFF at school's grades not being as good as usual (though really BFF has a rank & GPA even now that Friend cannot at this point match by the time she graduates even if she gets straight A's) and makes a point, even after BFF asked her to stop, of bringing up how well she did in the class that BFF was most upset about.     

3) She won't stop telling me negative things about Todd.  I had a conversation with her during which I exhausted myself trying to bean dip where I could and defending him and my BFF when avoiding the topic was impossible.
Ex:  she in Todd are in a class together.  She gchats me saying "so funny, Todd just volunteered an answer and got it WRONG!" or complaining that Todd likes to pretend he is all romantic but really he only cares about that stuff when it involves him.  In the latter example, Friend had passed Todd her phone to show him and Jenny the sweet text her psuedo-boyfriend had sent her, but apparently Todd - who has never met the guy!! - did not show the appropriate enthusiasm.  These are only 2 of the many many things she has tried to tell me about.

Right now I am so angry with her for continually putting me in this position & whatever parts of her that I liked before seem to be MIA or just not standing up to the negativity.  I've taken to just not responding at all if she brings someone else up & if I didn't sit next to her in one of my classes (have a seating chart so I can't move), I would seriously consider just avoiding her altogether even if it did cause drama.

Now here is why I am waffling - I don't want to stress Jenny out right after she has told me about her family member.  Also I am worried that since I am so angry at Friend right now, I might say too much.  I will readily admit that my tongue tends to runaway with me when I am angry. 

I am leaning towards doing my breathing exercises to calm down and then very calmly telling Jenny that I don't want to upset her during this difficult time, but I think she needs to know xyz so that she can be aware and protect herself. 

What do you guys think?  Is this a bad time to tell Jenny?

I think you should still tell Jenny. Especially now, so she doesn't confide more in Friend.

In law school I had a "friend" like Friend here. She took great delight in making fun of people behind their backs, telling everyone their secrets, gloating when she did something better than someone else, and always getting information out of people. No boundaries and no respect for privacy. Once we figured out she was like that, we stopped telling her things that we didn't want getting out, but kept up the friendship until graduation because it was easier than anything else. That may be what you're looking at in this situation.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted - Non Update p80
Post by: Bijou on January 25, 2012, 09:11:45 PM
Well we are all back at school, and I am going to be seeing Jenny alone for the first time tomorrow night & was planning on talking to her then.  However, there are some things that have happened since which are making me waffle a bit. 

What do you guys think?  Is this a bad time to tell Jenny?
You know Jenny better than anyone here.  I think you need to use your own judgement, based on your knowing her so well.
Me, I would drop a friend who causes problems at every turn.  They just are not worth it.
I'm wondering what kind of drama she could cause that you would be forced to participate in.  It seems to me that she can make all the bitter tea she wants, but you don't have to drink it.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: LEMon on January 25, 2012, 09:43:47 PM
Actually I kind of see the stress Jenny is feeling as a better reason to tell her.  She has something that is on her mind (the ill relative); the last thing she needs is someone who is pretending to be her friend but is really using her.  Plus she doesn't need all the drama that will come.  Seems 'friend' could hurt Jenny more now than normally.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: AustenFan on January 25, 2012, 11:48:55 PM
I think part of the problem is that worrying about everyone and possible fallout is clouding your judgement.

If Friend wasn't a mutual friend and was a professional pet sitter or cleaning lady and you found out she had photographed and distributed a picture of something in their home would you tell Jenny? I suspect you wouldn't hesitate to, regardless of what else Jenny has going on, because you want her to be aware of what is going on in her life and home.

On the personal level, Friend sounds like she spends quite a bit of time thinking & talking about Todd under the guise of complaining. I suspect if she honestly didn't like him as much as she claims she would simply ignore him.

I vote you should tell Jenny about the picture issue immediately, and take your cue from Jenny for the rest of the conversation.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Steve on January 26, 2012, 05:17:03 AM
You need to tell her. If the situation with her relative gets so bad she may need someone to pet-sit for her again.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: wyliefool on January 26, 2012, 07:37:11 AM
You need to tell her. If the situation with her relative gets so bad she may need someone to pet-sit for her again.

For real.

Also, this:
Quote
On the personal level, Friend sounds like she spends quite a bit of time thinking & talking about Todd under the guise of complaining.

'Methinks she doth protest too much.'

At the very least, you need to make sure that Jenny doesn't confide in Notreallyafriend about anything.

Also, even if you do sit next to this girl, I don't know why you bother speaking to her still. It's soooo not worth it. Take it from someone (presumably) older who's had to learn the hard way. She can't make drama for you if you quit being friends w/ her. Maybe the rest of your circle will see how relaxed and un-stressed you are and follow suit.  :)
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: CharlieBraun on January 26, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
Yuck on so many levels.

1.  My advice is to tell Jenny.  She's vulnerable right now because of the other circumstance, and Notreallyafriend is just the kind of vulture who will prey on that.

2.  Go to your professor and ask for a change in your seating.  You are paying darned good money for an education and you deserve to be able to concentrate in class.  I know you probably don't want the drama of Notreallyafriend's questions on the seat change, so discuss that with the professor with regard to sightlines or other needs. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: BarensMom on January 26, 2012, 09:33:40 AM
NyaChan, just tell Jenny what happened when this "friend" cat sat for her NOW.  She deserves to know that "friend" is snooping and sending pictures of what is in her house.  How would you feel if Jenny asks "friend" to cat sit again and "friend" does something even worse?  The longer you put it off, the more questions Jenny will ask about why you didn't tell her sooner?
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Winterlight on January 26, 2012, 09:34:00 AM
Definitely tell Jenny before she confides anything else to this false friend, or asks her to petsit again.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Allyson on January 26, 2012, 10:27:43 AM
I agree with the advice about Jenny. Also, I think you should tell Friend to stop talking to you about Todd/Jenny. It sounds like you aren't that interested in keeping up the friendship at this point anyway, so there isn't that much to lose. And it might not work, but it also might, if you just say something like "hey, can you cut out the negative talk about my friends, please?" "all this ripping on people is bringing me down, can we talk about something else?' Be very direct that you don't want to hear it. Bean-dip isn't working cause she sounds too caught up in her own 'humour' to care what the response is.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? Another UPDATE p 92
Post by: NyaChan on January 26, 2012, 02:52:51 PM
OP Again - I can't believe this is happening.  Jenny texted me today saying she was so glad I thought of getting together tonight because she really needs the distraction.  I responded, "Uh oh, bad day?"  and then she tells me that she has just found out that her father filed for divorce this morning.  Jenny is a couple years younger than me and is very very close to her parents.  She seemed completely blindsided.

I agree with PP's that her vulnerability puts her at greater risk of Friend taking in confidences and then spreading the word.  I initially thought, oh no oh no, no way can I tell her tonight after she has just found this out.  But then I realized that this is exactly the sort of situation that I have been worrying that Friend might exploit.  If she seems at all capable of handling it, I plan to tell her & warn her to be careful.  If anyone thinks that is a bad idea, please chime in!  I am not meeting her until late tonight so there is still time to change my mind.

I'll definitely post afterwards with an update - Thank you guys for 1)letting me know I wasn't overreacting & 2) reassuring me that telling her is the right thing to do
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Mikayla on January 26, 2012, 03:01:47 PM
Your update crossposted with this, but I'm glad you're sticking with your plan!  She needs to know this now, and you need to stop feeling like you're hiding something from a friend.  Who knows, maybe you can find some dark humor in it if that helps and she takes it the right way. 

Title: Re: Wait...What???? Another UPDATE p 92
Post by: magicdomino on January 26, 2012, 03:06:04 PM
  But then I realized that this is exactly the sort of situation that I have been worrying that Friend might exploit.

Just imagine what kind of malicious gossip Friend can create out of Jenny's parents' divorce, or the relative's illness.  At the very least, you need to warn Jenny of Friend's gossiping, even if you can't bring yourself to mention specifics.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Winterlight on January 26, 2012, 08:09:22 PM
Definitely tell her tonight. It stinks, but she needs to know now more than ever IMO.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? FINAL UPDATE
Post by: NyaChan on January 26, 2012, 11:57:49 PM
OP here - It is all done!

Jenny and I hung out tonight, had some wine, watched old movies, all that fun girly stuff.  When she first came in I pulled out the bottle of wine that I had promised her - at which point she let me know that she and Todd had been having disagreements & that I should not be shocked if she suddenly burst into tears.  Yeah, that was a little discouraging. 

Still, I girded my loins and went forth into the abyss.  I told her about the ring incident in particular.  A strange thing kind of happened when I said that I wanted to advise her not to use Friend for apartment sitting when she leaves town.  I told her how Friend had come over and brought up this ring, but when I started to describe it Jenny exclaimed "oh my gosh that explains so much, we haven't been able to find that ring since that break!"  I did quickly say that I had no idea about that & had no reason to think Friend would have taken it.  Really I don't think she is a thief & if she is, well I have no knowledge of it and I'm not comfortable commenting on something like that. 

Instead, I explained what Friend had told me about the ring & advised her about the dangers of confiding in Friend.  Jenny was very upset that such a thing had happened & told me that her expectation when Friend was watching her place was that she would come in, check her pet's food/water & then leave.  She shared that she had already been taken aback when she came home to find that Friend had brought an out of town visitor with her into her apartment on one of her visits, & had borrowed movies from Jenny & Todd's collection without asking. 

Jenny acknowledged that she and Todd could tell that Friend was not okay with them dating, but had no idea how bad it really was.  I tried not to go too far into specifics, but made sure to give some concrete examples so that she would understand the scope of the problem.  For example, Jenny said "well, if she says something again, please tell me"  I had to tell her that honestly there was no doubt about it happening again, as really it happens multiple times every day.  I also let her know that her friends were sticking up for them as best they could.  I did not want her to think that people were encouraging Friend in this at all or that people were discussing her behind her back in a negative way. 

Ultimately Jenny has said that she has no problem if Friend stops talking to her & Todd altogether after we graduate, but that for the 2 years we have left, Friend'll just have to deal with the fact that they are dating & be civil or just stay away from them.  I think Jenny might have a talk with Friend, but she assured me that she would not tell bring me into it at all - apparently Friend shows enough disdain that Todd has stopped being quiet about the snipes she takes at him so it won't exactly come as a shock that they are upset with her.  I guess the surprise portion here for Jenny was 1) the ring & 2) that Friend was including Jenny & the relationship so freely in her jibes. 

Jenny did thank me for telling her & said that she was glad she knew what was going on.  I feel really relieved to have spoken to her about this.  I will admit I was especially relieved that she didn't break down - I was worried for a bit because her eyes were turning red & watering but she held it together when I told her to please don't let it upset her too much, because it was unfortunate that such a thing was happening at all, but that now that she knew, she could watch out for herself.  I really was worried about piling on to her bad day, but I think it will help her to know when she is so vulnerable that Friend is not someone to trust with deeper feelings.  Whew!
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: violinp on January 27, 2012, 01:09:03 AM
Oh, poor Jenny. I'm glad she has a friend like you, though. I'm glad it went over as well as could be expected.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: travestine on January 27, 2012, 01:37:47 AM
Wow - you've really been through it!  But you've proved yourself to be a good friend to Jenny & Todd and that's what's important.

As an aside - if Todd's ring really is missing, Friend could be in a bit of trouble.  It would seem that a lot of people have photographic evidence that she was the last person to be seen with it. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: AustenFan on January 27, 2012, 02:39:19 AM
Wow...my heart sank a little when you said the ring is missing. I'm glad the stress of wondering how to deal with the situation is off your shoulders.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: girlysprite on January 27, 2012, 04:56:46 AM
Well, as for the missing ring, it could very well be the cat. I know that when I leave small items lying around for even a day, my cats play with it until they have knocked it under the couch (where they can't reach it). I've lost a lot of batteries and screws in that way. So let's not be too quick to condemn 'friend' for that.

Other than that - well done!
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: Winterlight on January 27, 2012, 08:35:34 AM
Well played! Poor Jenny's having a week of it, but it's better to know your frenemies.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: gramma dishes on January 27, 2012, 10:01:37 AM
Job well done gently and with empathy.

I feel bad for Jenny, but at least Jenny has one great thing going for her.  She knows she's got a real friend in you.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: ettiquit on January 27, 2012, 11:30:23 AM
You're a good friend, and I'm glad it worked out well.  I hope things improve for Jenny soon.
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on January 27, 2012, 12:00:50 PM

Couples *love* to jump to that defense, but sometimes people don't like that stuff because...they don't like it.  For me, it doesn't change when I'm in a relationship -- it's still not my thing.  I don't wear matching stuff, I don't let guys feed me fries, I don't kiss in public -- it's just not for me. 

That's me! SO is very touchy-feely, so he was pretty surprised to learn that I am, but only in private. If we are in the presence of another person, I do not want to kiss beyond a quick peck to say hello/goodbye, have a long lingering hug, etc. I am ok with hand holding or arm in arm if we are walking somewhere, and that's about it! I'm fine if other people do those things (to a certain extent), but it is not for me.

Funny, I think there is a theme here... :P

I'm quite an affectionate person with DH in private but in public and around friends I tend to keep it to hugs, quick kisses on the cheek/mouth, and holding hands.   A lot of that is because of a time before we were married that we were doing the LDR thing due to him being in the Marines and I used to hang out with mutual friends of ours who were a couple.  The girl was more private but the guy was a LOT more affectionate, to the point that it was uncomfortable to be around them at times.  If I said anything about it, the guy would say "Why can't you be happy for us?"  ::)

It's not that I wasn't happy for them, just that I really missed DH terribly and seeing him all over her didn't help.  There were times I'd just decline to hang out with them if I wasn't feeling like dealing with that.  Was I jealous? Yeah, that they had each other and I only got to see my man maybe once-twice a year (we were on opposite coasts)
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: Bijou on January 28, 2012, 06:49:09 AM
NyaChan, regarding your update, well done. 
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: travestine on January 28, 2012, 02:29:04 PM
Well, as for the missing ring, it could very well be the cat. I know that when I leave small items lying around for even a day, my cats play with it until they have knocked it under the couch (where they can't reach it). I've lost a lot of batteries and screws in that way. So let's not be too quick to condemn 'friend' for that.

Other than that - well done!

I wasn't "condemning" the friend - I was just saying that she has put herself in a very awkward position if the ring doesn't turn up.

Believe me, I know from cats.  I was moving furniture and crawling around the floor at 1 a.m. last night looking for eye drops! ;D
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, New UPDATE p107
Post by: NyaChan on January 31, 2013, 02:55:13 PM
New Update:  This is actually an update to both the engagement thread (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=122408.0 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=122408.0)) and this thread, but the part that really sticks out is about the ring so I decided to put it here.

I had drinks with my friend who also invited the Picture-Taker from this thread.  This was the first time we'd been together alone since the engagement. 

Part 1:  My friend told me the day after the party that she had received a text from Todd during the party which she didn't notice until she was home.  In this text, Todd was asking her to please go talk to/comfort Jenny because she was upset and crying.  Friend, for reasons I don't understand, interpreted this text in context with the difficulty Todd & Jenny were having in finding a wedding date anytime in the near future (they were trying to pick it at the engagement party).  She apologized for not seeing the text and expressed her hope that Jenny was okay.  Todd responded non-committally (as in no explanation, and very neutral in tone) and it was never mentioned again.

Part 2:  Picture-Taker was in the car with another friend and a 3rd party on their way to the party after Todd had told the engagement story at the "pre-game."  This 3rd party is good friends with Todd.  Picture-Taker had organized an elaborate engagement celebration last year for a couple of her friends back home, spent a lot of time, effort, and money, but was hurt when the friends barely thanked her or appreciated the event.  During this car ride to the engagement party, Picture-Taker comments that "Todd & Jenny better not expect me to throw them some sort of a party for their engagement!" 

At drinks, Part 2 is told to me and Picture-Taker is angry, because shortly after the engagement party, Todd once again contacts her & is very upset.  He brings up the comment she made, says did she really think people weren't going to tell Jenny and him that she's saying this sort of thing?  More importantly though, he also then accuses Picture-Taker of stealing the ring.  She questioned him as to why he would think she would even bother taking it, how he could say for sure that it wasn't lost in an innocent manner, and explains exactly what she did do in terms of the picture and sending it to her friends, but Todd was steadfast in saying that he may not have proof but he still knows she did it.  Picture-Taker questioned whether Jenny knew he was accusing her and talking to her this way and Todd tells Picture-Taker to go ahead and tell her if she wants.  Todd said that from now on if they were invited to the same place, he wouldn't go so far as to tell the hosts that he didn't want to attend the same event as Picture-Taker, but that he wouldn't be pretending to be friends either. 

Picture-Taker later received a text from Todd:  "You should thank Mass.  I forgive you. (quotation from Mark that I don't remember)."

So apparently someone in the car (3rd party probably) told Todd and Jenny at the engagement party that Picture-Taker had made that comment.  I think Picture-Taker was referring more to her previous experience rather than Todd & Jenny, but 3rd party wouldn't have known about the background, and really why did PT say anything at all? I'm guessing this comment put Todd over the edge and he went ahead and made the accusation.  What's really strange though, is that in all this, Jenny never changed in her demeanor towards Picture-Taker and essentially acts as if they are still friends.  So you guys were right, it really wasn't a good idea to handle someone else's valuable (whether sentimental or monetary) property.   

   
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, New Update #107
Post by: CreteGirl on January 31, 2013, 03:14:40 PM
Please let us know if the ring turns up!
Title: Re: Wait...What???? I'm Absolutely Flabbergasted, FINAL UPDATE p96
Post by: Jocelyn on January 31, 2013, 09:50:37 PM
Well, as for the missing ring, it could very well be the cat. I know that when I leave small items lying around for even a day, my cats play with it until they have knocked it under the couch (where they can't reach it). I've lost a lot of batteries and screws in that way. So let's not be too quick to condemn 'friend' for that.

Other than that - well done!
Pod.
My class ring went missing. Months later, my niece was visiting, and she crawled in under the bed to get to my cat, and found the ring, wedged in a crack between the floorboards (old house!). I'd vacuumed under the bed any number of times, but it was low enough to the floor that *I* couldn't crawl under it. I had to jump in quickly to rescue my niece, who came out of the guest room saying, 'Ooh, pretty!', as her mother started scolding her for getting into my stuff.  ::)