Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Holidays => Topic started by: Vilandra on December 26, 2011, 08:55:23 PM

Title: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Vilandra on December 26, 2011, 08:55:23 PM
This Christmas was my three month old DD's first.   ;D  My MIL and her boyfriend arrived at our home shortly before dinner on Christmas Eve and stayed until about 10am Christmas Day. 

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

Christmas morning comes, DD wakes us up at 6:45.  We let her take her time waking up in her crib (unswaddle, etc.) before heading down to check out the tree.  We wait, and we wait, and we wait...DH starts a pot of coffee.  Keep waiting.  At this point I'm frustrated because we have a short window and it's diminishing...I head up to use the restroom in our bedroom and hear MIL and her boyfriend chatting.  So, they're definitely awake.  I tell DH and he and the dog head up to find out what the plan is. 

MIL's response?  'Oh, I was waiting to hear the coffeepot beep.'

We had to rush present opening and had a fussy DD for about half of presents (which wasn't a ton).  Not the Christmas morning my little family wanted.

What would you do in the future?  Knock on the door and wake them when DD gets up (even if you know they've heard her)?  Open presents when we want and if folks miss out, too bad?

Not a big blip on an otherwise awesome first Christmas, but her selfish attitude continues to irk!
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: penelope2017 on December 26, 2011, 09:12:18 PM
I'm guessing maybe they thought a three month old isn't going to know the difference, rushing or not?

In the future I'd tell them the plan, but I wouldn't be scrambling to get up for present opening with a three month old. Years to come are going to obviously be more of an impact. Why did you need to rush? If you had plans to be a certain place at a certain time, or they did, I would have told them the night before. But I'm sorry, it never would have occurred to me I would have had to rush downstairs for 7 am for what amounts to a newborn opening presents.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Shoo on December 26, 2011, 09:14:24 PM
I'm not sure about the future, because your daughter will be a year older.  But I probably wouldn't have made my (and my guests) plans dependent on the schedule of a 3 month old baby.  I'd have probably let the guests sleep in a bit and planned for the gift opening to occur during her morning nap. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: NyaChan on December 26, 2011, 09:14:49 PM
I don't see anything wrong with knocking on the door to let a family member know you are about to start opening gifts.  If they choose to linger in their room after that, then start opening without them.  I think MIL's response about the coffee pot was a little weak - did she really expect that to be audible or a good signal of when to come downstairs? If she had given any indication of not being ok with the 7 am start time, I would almost think she had done it on purpose in some silly P/A move.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: JenJay on December 26, 2011, 09:24:21 PM
I'm with the camp who suggest MIL probably didn't take "DD's waking time to DD's nap time" as a firm schedule, but rather a guideline. Maybe she didn't realize you wanted gift opening to be finished by nap time, but assumed the adults would pause while baby ate and went to sleep and then resume once Mom or Dad returned from putting her down? In all honesty that's what I'd expect.

As for the coffee pot comment, it sounded like a silly joke to me. Sometimes when DH asks me "When do you want to get up tomorrow?" I'll tell him "As soon as I finish the hot cup of coffee you're bringing me in bed!" Of course, that's not totally a joke, so maybe not a great example  ;D.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Mom2PBJ on December 26, 2011, 09:28:52 PM
I think you should have probably waited until after her power nap.  That would most likely have been a better time of the morning for everyone to be up and dressed and for baby to be in a better mood.  In another couple of years your "baby" will be the one urging everyone to get up at 7:00 to open presents. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: kareng57 on December 26, 2011, 09:31:19 PM
I truly think that you're over-thinking this.  Of course "baby's first Christmas" might be important to the parents, but the reality is that a 3-month-old won't have any idea as to why this day is different from any other day.

I would think that the present-opening should be on the adults' schedule rather that than the baby's.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: LadyL on December 26, 2011, 09:34:58 PM
I have to agree that I wouldn't assume a 3 month olds presence/awakeness would literally determine when presents would be opened.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: NyaChan on December 26, 2011, 09:35:30 PM
I'm a bit surprised by the responses.  MIL came to her son's house to celebrate Christmas with them.  The OP and her family let their guests know that they would be opening presents at 7 am.  Why should OP change her gift opening time when there was no indication that there is any need to do so?  No one said that getting up at that time was a hardship, and really while I enjoy sleeping in, 7 is not that early...  I don't think it matters that the OP wanted the early start time to get opening presents done before her baby's nap.  In its simplest form, OP and MIL made a plan to meet by 7 am.  MIL chose to be late to their meeting.  That is not on the OP.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Shoo on December 26, 2011, 09:38:41 PM
I'm a bit surprised by the responses.  MIL came to her son's house to celebrate Christmas with them.  The OP and her family let their guests know that they would be opening presents at 7 am.  Why should OP change her gift opening time when there was no indication that there is any need to do so?  No one said that getting up at that time was a hardship, and really while I enjoy sleeping in, 7 is not that early...  I don't think it matters that the OP wanted the early start time to get opening presents done before her baby's nap.  In its simplest form, OP and MIL made a plan to meet by 7 am.  MIL chose to be late to their meeting.  That is not on the OP.

Because the OP's plan was unrealistic, IMO.  She asked what she could do differently in the future.  That's hard to say because her baby will be a toddler a year from now, but several of us do have opinions about what she could have done differently this year. Sure, it doesn't make any difference now, but as a point of discussion, it's relevant.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Yvaine on December 26, 2011, 09:40:46 PM
I think MIL's response about the coffee pot was a little weak - did she really expect that to be audible or a good signal of when to come downstairs?

My new one sure is! I could see a person hearing coffee start, beginning to get up in a leisurely fashion, and figuring the beep would be a good indicator of "a few minutes have passed, time to get up for real." Kind of like a snooze button; more of an indicator of passing time than a need for the actual coffee itself.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: NyaChan on December 26, 2011, 09:46:08 PM
I'm a bit surprised by the responses.  MIL came to her son's house to celebrate Christmas with them.  The OP and her family let their guests know that they would be opening presents at 7 am.  Why should OP change her gift opening time when there was no indication that there is any need to do so?  No one said that getting up at that time was a hardship, and really while I enjoy sleeping in, 7 is not that early...  I don't think it matters that the OP wanted the early start time to get opening presents done before her baby's nap.  In its simplest form, OP and MIL made a plan to meet by 7 am.  MIL chose to be late to their meeting.  That is not on the OP.

Because the OP's plan was unrealistic, IMO.  She asked what she could do differently in the future.  That's hard to say because her baby will be a toddler a year from now, but several of us do have opinions about what she could have done differently this year. Sure, it doesn't make any difference now, but as a point of discussion, it's relevant.

Ah, I guess that's where my thinking diverged.  I didn't think it was unrealistic to ask people to be ready by that time, because I didn't think the reason was as important as the fact that the request was agreed to.  If the timing of presents isn't really important to getting to other events in the day, then I guess I'd agree with the suggestions to be more flexible.       
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sharnita on December 26, 2011, 09:47:19 PM
I think that OP's plan would be reasopnable even if there was no baby.  If I am a guest and the host wants to open gifts at x time then that's what time gifts are opened.  If I don't like it then I will definitely make other plans in the future but as the guest I don't have the authority to change/ignore the schedule. 

If I wanted to get up at 7 to open gifts but the host indicated that they wanted to fo it between baby's afternoon nap and dinner would I be justified in disregarding that as just a suggestion and doing it on my preferred timeline instead?

OP, FWIW, we did exactly what you planned with my family and my 9 month old nephew this CHristmas.  It worked well so I can attest that it is realistic if everyone is on the same page.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Shoo on December 26, 2011, 09:51:33 PM
Maybe unrealistic isn't the word I should have used.  I think what I really mean is that expecting guests to get out of bed when it's still dark outside to accommodate the schedule of a 3 month old infant who has absolutely no idea what's going on is kind of ... unnecessary. It's one thing when there are kids involved, who wake up early out of excitement and bounce off the walls until everybody is up. But this situation was different.  I'd have made it easy on my guests.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: KenveeB on December 26, 2011, 09:54:29 PM
I'm a bit surprised by the responses.  MIL came to her son's house to celebrate Christmas with them.  The OP and her family let their guests know that they would be opening presents at 7 am.  Why should OP change her gift opening time when there was no indication that there is any need to do so?  No one said that getting up at that time was a hardship, and really while I enjoy sleeping in, 7 is not that early...  I don't think it matters that the OP wanted the early start time to get opening presents done before her baby's nap.  In its simplest form, OP and MIL made a plan to meet by 7 am.  MIL chose to be late to their meeting.  That is not on the OP.

Because the OP's plan was unrealistic, IMO.  She asked what she could do differently in the future.  That's hard to say because her baby will be a toddler a year from now, but several of us do have opinions about what she could have done differently this year. Sure, it doesn't make any difference now, but as a point of discussion, it's relevant.

Maybe it was unrealistic to you, but it's a perfectly normal time IMO to get up.  Everyone's going to be different on that.  If it was unrealistic to MIL, then the time to mention that was the night before when the OP said extremely clearly that they would be doing present opening at 7am.  She should've either asked for a later time then or told them not to wait on her.  Once she agreed, she agreed, and it was very rude to bail out on it.  My advice to the OP in the future would be if they aren't down when you said you'd start opening, knock quietly on the door and let them know you're about to start.  Then start.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: NyaChan on December 26, 2011, 10:06:26 PM
I guess for me,  if I indicated I wanted to start at a certain time and no one objected, there is no reason why I shouldn't go ahead as planned.  If I announced a particular time and someone mentioned "oh that's really early" the nice but certainly not obligatory thing to do would be to be flexible if that time isn't absolutely necessary.  OP could have been more flexible, but I don't think she knew of any reason why flexibility was needed.

It was the OP's home and the MIL was a guest.  Usually the host gets to dictate the menu and timing of things as long as they are not unreasonable, in which case it is the guest's prerogative to leave or decline to attend.  MIL could have said something or declined to participate, but chose not to.  Instead, she just stayed upstairs the next morning even though she was already awake, causing delay to the proceedings.  That's why I wondered if there was a bit of P/A behavior going on - it'd be another thing if she was still sleeping and didn't realize she was late.  She knew it was past the time they agreed on, but for whatever reason, didn't come down as was agreed upon.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Vilandra on December 26, 2011, 10:51:53 PM
OP here--I'm very interested by the responses!  Let me clarify a bit.  First off, we were opening presents so early (before DD's first nap) because of MIL, and only because of MIL.  She came into town at dinnertime on Christmas Eve and only stayed until 10am.  That was completely on her and her boyfriend's schedule, and in fact I was (privately) upset and disappointed that she stayed for such a short time.  If she had been staying longer, or hadn't been there at all, we would have opened presents later in the day after DD's first nap (or done a present or two, and then the rest later).  She made it clear that she was here to see DD open presents for her first Christmas.

What frustrated me was that we were having to rush and open presents before 8am because of her, and she made even that less than enjoyable.  I would have much preferred to have stretched presents out the rest of the day.  Believe me, I completely realize that 3mo DD had little/no clue what was going on, and in fact I felt a little silly wrapping presents.  But, by the same token, it's important to DH and I to start our family's Christmas traditions, and why not start now?
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Vilandra on December 26, 2011, 10:53:08 PM
I'd have probably let the guests sleep in a bit and planned for the gift opening to occur during her morning nap.

But she wanted to see DD open presents.  The only way that was possible on MIL's schedule was to do it between 7 and 8am, because her nap ended after MIL left.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: NyaChan on December 26, 2011, 11:25:54 PM
Ok, so MIL came to see DD open her presents, couldn't stay past 10, but wouldn't come downstairs at the time agreed upon which resulted in rushing the whole experience.  I think that is inconsiderate, if not just plain rude.  This was DD's first Christmas which she won't remember, but it was also OP's first Christmas with her daughter which she will remember for many years.  Though I don't celebrate myself, I think there is value in getting to watch your child play with the toys (or just the wrapping paper) and taking pictures of her with her first Christmas gifts.  The parents shouldn't have had to rush through it and wouldn't have had to if MIL had followed through on the original plan.

If you celebrate at home next year, I'd open the presents when you want to.  If your guests are not up, go ahead and let them know that you are about to start.  Then it is up to them to decide whether they will join you.  You should go ahead and start at the planned time regardless.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Winterlight on December 26, 2011, 11:39:33 PM
I think MIL was thoughtless, given the update. In future, I'd tell them when we want to open presents, maybe tap at their door in the morning if they have agreed to be up then and then get on with it if they don't show.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Bijou on December 27, 2011, 12:00:34 AM
I think I would have just knocked on their door and let them know it was time to get up.  You had discussed it the night before so they knew what to expect. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Shoo on December 27, 2011, 09:29:38 AM
I'd have probably let the guests sleep in a bit and planned for the gift opening to occur during her morning nap.

But she wanted to see DD open presents.  The only way that was possible on MIL's schedule was to do it between 7 and 8am, because her nap ended after MIL left.

Well, DD is only 3 months old, so she didn't actually open any of her gifts -- her parents did.

What I'm not clear on, OP, is whether your MIL knew she was leaving so early all along, or just decided to leave at 10 am spur of the moment.  If this was the plan all along, then I agree she was inconsiderate for taking so long to come downstairs and frittering away your time together.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: EnoughAlready22 on December 27, 2011, 09:36:16 AM
I think I would have just knocked on their door and let them know it was time to get up.  You had discussed it the night before so they knew what to expect.

I agree completely!  Instead of waiting around for her to come down, I would have knocked earlier and said you were getting ready to open presents if they wanted to join you.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Searcher on December 27, 2011, 09:38:49 AM
I'm a little unclear on why it was necessary to open presents that early-and why you felt you had to "rush through it."

My own action would have been to save the present-opening for later in the day, when everyone was awake, fed, and comfortable.  I don't know of any tradition that requires that presents be opened first thing in the morning.  Did your MIL express that she was going to leave early?
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: NyaChan on December 27, 2011, 09:44:52 AM
Searcher, there's an update towards the top of the page - MIL had to leave by 10 & baby takes a nap that would run I think from 8-almost 10
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: kckgirl on December 27, 2011, 09:46:20 AM
I think instead of rushing to get all the gifts open, you could have just opened a few and left the others for after the nap. If MIL gets upset about that, it's her problem for delaying the beginning of the festivities. But really, you didn't really have to wait for her in the first place. You told her when you were starting and why.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Searcher on December 27, 2011, 09:49:16 AM
Searcher, there's an update towards the top of the page - MIL had to leave by 10 & baby takes a nap that would run I think from 8-almost 10

Okay.  I guess in that instance I would have skipped the gift opening or even done it the night before, if incompatible schedules would lead to a sense of "rush" too early in the morning.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: WillyNilly on December 27, 2011, 10:22:26 AM
Whats confusing me is how this coffee thing plays into it all.  I've been drinking coffee for over 20 years and have been around coffee pots for longer then that. A [home] pot of coffee takes 10 minutes at most - and that's only if you are cleaning the pot from the day before, grinding your own beans and brewing a huge amount.  4-8 cups in a clean pot takes 5 minutes, especially if using already ground.  So really how does a 10 minute delay cause the need to rush or scramble? 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Yvaine on December 27, 2011, 10:37:33 AM
Whats confusing me is how this coffee thing plays into it all.  I've been drinking coffee for over 20 years and have been around coffee pots for longer then that. A [home] pot of coffee takes 10 minutes at most - and that's only if you are cleaning the pot from the day before, grinding your own beans and brewing a huge amount.  4-8 cups in a clean pot takes 5 minutes, especially if using already ground.  So really how does a 10 minute delay cause the need to rush or scramble?

Yeah, the time frame is a little confusing--can't tell if 10 minutes or an hour passed while the MIL dithered. My best guess was that the coffeemaker did finish but she didn't hear it.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Vilandra on December 27, 2011, 01:33:25 PM
Whats confusing me is how this coffee thing plays into it all.  I've been drinking coffee for over 20 years and have been around coffee pots for longer then that. A [home] pot of coffee takes 10 minutes at most - and that's only if you are cleaning the pot from the day before, grinding your own beans and brewing a huge amount.  4-8 cups in a clean pot takes 5 minutes, especially if using already ground.  So really how does a 10 minute delay cause the need to rush or scramble?

Yeah, the time frame is a little confusing--can't tell if 10 minutes or an hour passed while the MIL dithered. My best guess was that the coffeemaker did finish but she didn't hear it.

We had no idea that she was waiting for the coffee to be ready.  DH and I had been killing time downstairs for maybe 15 minutes when he decided to put coffee on while we were waiting for MIL and boyfriend.  Our coffeepot has a beep but nothing too loud, no idea if she could hear it/was really waiting for the coffee or if that was bogus. 

Her plan all along was to leave at/around 10am, it was not because of any of the morning's events.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: shhh its me on December 27, 2011, 01:57:40 PM
  Since watching present opening was a large part of her itinerary , you should have just knocked at 7  or 6:50 (5-15 minutes after the baby was up) with a 10 minute waring.   Without knowing what she was really thinking , I can't call her rude.  Maybe she didn't hear the baby and wanted to give you and DH a few minutes to quietly enjoy Christmas morning alone, maybe she misunderstood and though you planed on calling her, maybe she's just a idiot before she gets her first cup of coffee ( I know I am)  My understanding is she came down quickly after being told it was present time?
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on December 27, 2011, 02:07:14 PM
One of my Christmas morning tradtions is to drink a nice cup of coffee while watching others open presents. Maybe this MIL thinking as well.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Ruelz on December 27, 2011, 02:12:46 PM
In the future?  If the time has been discussed the night before, and they're not up about 10 minutes before the agreed apon time...knock on the door and let them know present opening happens in xx minutes!  ;D
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sharnita on December 27, 2011, 02:14:29 PM
One of my Christmas morning tradtions is to drink a nice cup of coffee while watching others open presents. Maybe this MIL thinking as well.

Well, since OP was accommodating MIL's schedule and MIL was there specifically to see presents opened then any requirement of coffee was MIL's responsibility.  SHe could have gotten up and started it herself, she could have mentioned the night before that she would need it in the morning.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: WillyNilly on December 27, 2011, 02:18:01 PM
I wouldn't consider the kitchen "open" for guests until the coffee was at least on, but probably not until it was brewed, so I think its a big bit of miscommunication. Waiting 15 minutes to put the coffee on, to me, would be a sign that my hosts were having a bit of private time. It would nver occur to me they were waiting on me.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sharnita on December 27, 2011, 02:19:56 PM
I wouldn't consider the kitchen "open" for guests until the coffee was at least on, but probably not until it was brewed, so I think its a big bit of miscommunication. Waiting 15 minutes to put the coffee on, to me, would be a sign that my hosts were having a bit of private time. It would nver occur to me they were waiting on me.

I don't own a coffee pot so you'd be trapped in your room for a long time.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on December 27, 2011, 02:22:12 PM
This seems to be a case for "use your words". 

"We'll hear her get up" is meaningless.  "We were waiting for the coffee pot to beep" is meaningless.

If you want things to proceed on a schedule, somebody needs to set a time, not a vague "well, when this happens, we'll start."
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: NyaChan on December 27, 2011, 02:23:44 PM
I wouldn't consider the kitchen "open" for guests until the coffee was at least on, but probably not until it was brewed, so I think its a big bit of miscommunication. Waiting 15 minutes to put the coffee on, to me, would be a sign that my hosts were having a bit of private time. It would nver occur to me they were waiting on me.

I don't own a coffee pot so you'd be trapped in your room for a long time.

hahahaha I was just thinking the same thing :D 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: WillyNilly on December 27, 2011, 02:32:46 PM
I wouldn't consider the kitchen "open" for guests until the coffee was at least on, but probably not until it was brewed, so I think its a big bit of miscommunication. Waiting 15 minutes to put the coffee on, to me, would be a sign that my hosts were having a bit of private time. It would nver occur to me they were waiting on me.

I don't own a coffee pot so you'd be trapped in your room for a long time.

If I were staying with someone who didn't drink coffee obviously I'd use a different measure. But these were the OP's spouses parents and presumably close family knows at least if other family members are coffee drinkers. Plus coffee pots are generally left out on the counter w pretty easy to see if one is present.

The point is, coffee - to coffee drinkers, isusualy the first thing served in the morning. Parents of a 3 month old are probably still getting into a morning routine (especially with houseguests) and I can really understand using that as basic benchmark of when the hosts are 'ready' for their guests to be under foot.








Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: mabelle on December 27, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
This seems to be a case for "use your words". 

"We'll hear her get up" is meaningless.  "We were waiting for the coffee pot to beep" is meaningless.

If you want things to proceed on a schedule, somebody needs to set a time, not a vague "well, when this happens, we'll start."

They did - the Original Post states that the baby is usually up by 7AM and has an hour-long window for feeding and activity prior to her morning nap. That suggests that sometime very close to 7AM is the scheduled time.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sharnita on December 27, 2011, 02:56:38 PM
This seems to be a case for "use your words". 

"We'll hear her get up" is meaningless.  "We were waiting for the coffee pot to beep" is meaningless.

If you want things to proceed on a schedule, somebody needs to set a time, not a vague "well, when this happens, we'll start."

They did - the Original Post states that the baby is usually up by 7AM and has an hour-long window for feeding and activity prior to her morning nap. That suggests that sometime very close to 7AM is the scheduled time.

And MIL apparently stated a scheduled end time by telling them when she had to leave.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: O'Dell on December 27, 2011, 03:51:03 PM
Under the circumstances I think you should have knocked. I don't see anything wrong with a wake-up call for guests when you've already agreed on the time. If MIL and bf lollygagged around, then you would have been fine starting the gifts from you/Santa. As it was, you could also have stopped the present opening once your daughter got fussy and continued later. About the only thing you should have made sure to do was *try* to fit in your MIL's gift being opened in front of her...all else was optional. So "Morning MIL. Daughter opened her Santa presents. Would you like her to open yours now?" and/or "Looks like Daughter has had enough. Let's save the rest of her presents for after her nap."

If they care that much about being there then they'd make an effort. So if MIL missed out because of the coffee beep then a bemused "Sorry, MIL. We settled on 7am I thought since you weren't with us that you had decided it wasn't that important."

And the coffee beep...who knows what she was thinking. If she was so focused on that beep, then maybe she's like me and has trouble knowing what the heck is going on before she gets her first cup.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Vilandra on December 27, 2011, 03:59:50 PM
I wouldn't consider the kitchen "open" for guests until the coffee was at least on, but probably not until it was brewed, so I think its a big bit of miscommunication. Waiting 15 minutes to put the coffee on, to me, would be a sign that my hosts were having a bit of private time. It would nver occur to me they were waiting on me.

I don't own a coffee pot so you'd be trapped in your room for a long time.

If I were staying with someone who didn't drink coffee obviously I'd use a different measure. But these were the OP's spouses parents and presumably close family knows at least if other family members are coffee drinkers. Plus coffee pots are generally left out on the counter w pretty easy to see if one is present.

The point is, coffee - to coffee drinkers, isusualy the first thing served in the morning. Parents of a 3 month old are probably still getting into a morning routine (especially with houseguests) and I can really understand using that as basic benchmark of when the hosts are 'ready' for their guests to be under foot.

DH and I are occasional coffee drinkers--we have a pot, usually have coffee on hand, but are not the 'Fresh pot first thing in the morning' type of people.  MIL stays with us enough to know that this is the case--often she has to make herself a pot, and there have been a couple of unfortunate visits where we didn't have any on hand.  It would be pretty absurd for her to wait for coffee to be made for her.

DH did eventually knock--we were both baffled that she was awake and chatting, knew we were awake and up, and was sitting in her room waiting for a coffeepot to beep.  Why couldn't she come down and make the coffee?
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on December 27, 2011, 04:01:44 PM
This seems to be a case for "use your words". 

"We'll hear her get up" is meaningless.  "We were waiting for the coffee pot to beep" is meaningless.

If you want things to proceed on a schedule, somebody needs to set a time, not a vague "well, when this happens, we'll start."

They did - the Original Post states that the baby is usually up by 7AM and has an hour-long window for feeding and activity prior to her morning nap. That suggests that sometime very close to 7AM is the scheduled time.

"The baby is usually up by 7:00" isn't the same as  "We expect to be ready no later than 7:45, and will knock - but not before 7:15 - if we are ready earlier."

MIL's interpretation of the plan was a completely uncommunicated "I'll wait until I hear the coffee pot beep", which led to the OP getting frustrated by the waiting, because the OP thought she had said "7:00"

And since MIL didn't hear the coffee pot beep (which I do not find a reasonable benchmark - I'm not going to count on hearing one, nor am I going to hold myself prisoner in the guest room until I hear the coffee pot signalling my release), the OP waited.. and waited.. and waited.

The OP could have saved herself frustration by setting clear benchmarks beforehand, including a "we're doing X at Y hour - with or without you."   

The MIL contributed by re-interpreting the vague benchmark (when the baby gets up) and then never stating her own benchmark.  She was *not* prepared to get up when the baby got up - she wanted to wait "until she heard the coffee pot beep".

But unless this is the first time MIL has stayed, I don't understand why nobody in the OP knew MIL wouldn't actually be up until she heard the coffee pot or some other benchmark.

Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: mabelle on December 27, 2011, 04:31:51 PM
This seems to be a case for "use your words". 

"We'll hear her get up" is meaningless.  "We were waiting for the coffee pot to beep" is meaningless.

If you want things to proceed on a schedule, somebody needs to set a time, not a vague "well, when this happens, we'll start."

They did - the Original Post states that the baby is usually up by 7AM and has an hour-long window for feeding and activity prior to her morning nap. That suggests that sometime very close to 7AM is the scheduled time.

"The baby is usually up by 7:00" isn't the same as  "We expect to be ready no later than 7:45, and will knock - but not before 7:15 - if we are ready earlier."

MIL's interpretation of the plan was a completely uncommunicated "I'll wait until I hear the coffee pot beep", which led to the OP getting frustrated by the waiting, because the OP thought she had said "7:00"

And since MIL didn't hear the coffee pot beep (which I do not find a reasonable benchmark - I'm not going to count on hearing one, nor am I going to hold myself prisoner in the guest room until I hear the coffee pot signalling my release), the OP waited.. and waited.. and waited.

The OP could have saved herself frustration by setting clear benchmarks beforehand, including a "we're doing X at Y hour - with or without you."   

The MIL contributed by re-interpreting the vague benchmark (when the baby gets up) and then never stating her own benchmark.  She was *not* prepared to get up when the baby got up - she wanted to wait "until she heard the coffee pot beep".

But unless this is the first time MIL has stayed, I don't understand why nobody in the OP knew MIL wouldn't actually be up until she heard the coffee pot or some other benchmark.

I don't get your confusion about timing - around 7am is around 7am...and for a family get together, I hardly think '715 on the button' is in order (by way of communicating said schedule). Further, when only an hour is available (during the child's happy time and prior to the MIL's self-imposed departure time) for some activity, you'd think the MIL would be cooperative. "when the baby gets up" is not a meaningless benchmark, since 1) babies don't always cooperate and 2) being there for present opening with the baby was the intended purpose of the trip.
 The Original Post states that the OP in discussing the schedule with MIL when they would be ready and was told, "Oh, we'll hear her" - let me copy it for you:

Quote

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.


So MIL changed her benchmark without notifying the OP after having told the OP that she (MIL) would be up when the baby woke up, the OP knew that MIL was in the room dawdling/conversing with her travel partner, and...choosing not to come down when MIL said she would.



Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Iris on December 27, 2011, 04:49:04 PM
I can see how in a weekend-or-more long visit you might chill in your room for a while before getting up in order to give the hosts private time, but this is not the situation here. Seeing bub open presents was important to MIL, the OP had arranged a schedule based on MIL's own schedule, and MIL agreed to it but just didn't stick to it. Is MIL evil because of this? No, but she is a little thoughtless - after all much of what was happening was for her own benefit.

I know it's been suggested, but if something like this occurs again I would just tap on the door and say "We're opening presents now" and then start. Also, given that you started late because of MIL, you would have been perfectly fine to say "Well, bub needs her nap now. The rest of the presents can wait until later in the day." And then take her away for her sleep.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: sparksals on December 27, 2011, 04:58:54 PM
Depending on the distance from the coffee pot to the guestroom, I would be able to smell the coffee brewing.   As a guest I don't want to venture up until I know the hosts are up.   While MIL said beep she could have meant the smell of coffee brewing as the house being up.   I don't think the OP was clear enough that the.plan was set in stone.   
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: JenJay on December 27, 2011, 09:08:46 PM
OP here--I'm very interested by the responses!  Let me clarify a bit.  First off, we were opening presents so early (before DD's first nap) because of MIL, and only because of MIL.  She came into town at dinnertime on Christmas Eve and only stayed until 10am.  That was completely on her and her boyfriend's schedule, and in fact I was (privately) upset and disappointed that she stayed for such a short time.  If she had been staying longer, or hadn't been there at all, we would have opened presents later in the day after DD's first nap (or done a present or two, and then the rest later).  She made it clear that she was here to see DD open presents for her first Christmas.

What frustrated me was that we were having to rush and open presents before 8am because of her, and she made even that less than enjoyable.  I would have much preferred to have stretched presents out the rest of the day.  Believe me, I completely realize that 3mo DD had little/no clue what was going on, and in fact I felt a little silly wrapping presents.  But, by the same token, it's important to DH and I to start our family's Christmas traditions, and why not start now?

That changes everything! You can't demand a starting and ending time AND keep everyone waiting around on you. She was rude. I'd have asked DH to knock on the door and let them know we'd be starting in 5 minutes and then done it.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: KenveeB on December 27, 2011, 09:16:22 PM
Depending on the distance from the coffee pot to the guestroom, I would be able to smell the coffee brewing.   As a guest I don't want to venture up until I know the hosts are up.   While MIL said beep she could have meant the smell of coffee brewing as the house being up.   I don't think the OP was clear enough that the.plan was set in stone.   

I don't see what about "she gets up around 7am", "we'll hear her get up and we'll do presents then" is unclear.  If MIL wanted to wait until coffee was brewing or some other personal signal, then it was her responsibility to actually communicate that.  OP communicated her plans, MIL accepted them, and then MIL changed it without telling anyone.  Fault is on MIL.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: WhiteTigerCub on December 28, 2011, 11:44:35 AM
Scary thought...maybe MIL and bf were otherwise engaged at the moment...perhaps a bit unexpectedly.  >:D.   

I think a simple knock on the door would have been fine. "We're starting..."
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Betelnut on December 28, 2011, 12:29:34 PM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: mabelle on December 28, 2011, 12:40:00 PM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"


Urgent? is a bit of an overstatement, but MIL knew there was only a short window to accomplish the purpose of the MIL's trip: to attend the opening of gifts with the new grandbaby. To refresh:

From the OP:

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Betelnut on December 28, 2011, 12:56:29 PM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"


Urgent? is a bit of an overstatement, but MIL knew there was only a short window to accomplish the purpose of the MIL's trip: to attend the opening of gifts with the new grandbaby. To refresh:

From the OP:

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

Oh yes, I understood that but MIL apparently didn't see the urgency despite being told that there was a need for it.  Or maybe she thought that the gifts could be opened after the nap which was described as being an hour.  Knocking on the door would have eliminated the OP's anxiety and allowed the morning to proceed.  I see the coffee pot reply as a bit of a red herring.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: KenveeB on December 28, 2011, 01:03:44 PM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"


Urgent? is a bit of an overstatement, but MIL knew there was only a short window to accomplish the purpose of the MIL's trip: to attend the opening of gifts with the new grandbaby. To refresh:

From the OP:

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

Oh yes, I understood that but MIL apparently didn't see the urgency despite being told that there was a need for it.  Or maybe she thought that the gifts could be opened after the nap which was described as being an hour.  Knocking on the door would have eliminated the OP's anxiety and allowed the morning to proceed.  I see the coffee pot reply as a bit of a red herring.

Except in the OP's update, MIL is specifically told that there will be a short window until the nap, MIL is planning on leaving before the nap is over, and MIL is the one insisting on being present to watch the gift-opening.  So she's created the urgency and still proceeds on her own invented schedule after agreeing to something else.  Sounds controlling to me.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Vilandra on December 28, 2011, 01:22:37 PM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"


Urgent? is a bit of an overstatement, but MIL knew there was only a short window to accomplish the purpose of the MIL's trip: to attend the opening of gifts with the new grandbaby. To refresh:

From the OP:

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

Oh yes, I understood that but MIL apparently didn't see the urgency despite being told that there was a need for it.  Or maybe she thought that the gifts could be opened after the nap which was described as being an hour.  Knocking on the door would have eliminated the OP's anxiety and allowed the morning to proceed.  I see the coffee pot reply as a bit of a red herring.

Except in the OP's update, MIL is specifically told that there will be a short window until the nap, MIL is planning on leaving before the nap is over, and MIL is the one insisting on being present to watch the gift-opening.  So she's created the urgency and still proceeds on her own invented schedule after agreeing to something else.  Sounds controlling to me.

This sums up pretty well how I felt about it. 

As far as the nap length/timing--DD is three months old and her nap schedule is still pretty erratic, and in fact most of the time still naps in-arms.  So, about the only thing we could count on was having about an hour of happiness until she melted down, and then doing the best we can from there.  It's not a matter of her napping for a known amount of time and being ready to go again, or just being able to put her in her crib and carry on with Christmas morning with just the adults.

I was bothered by it because it did seem subtly controlling to me.  This year, we announced that while we would keep alternating Thanksgiving between families, we were starting our new tradition of being in our own home for Christmas, and whoever wanted to join us was welcome.  The tone of it was very much 'Join us as we celebrate in our chosen way.'  Our chosen way was to open presents with the baby first thing in the morning.  She indicated she wanted to participate in that, and I'm sure she would have been very hurt if we had opened without her.  We even asked her specifically the night before if she wanted us to wake her or knock, which prompted the comment of 'No, we'll hear you get up.'  DH did eventually go up and get her.  He is normally very, very laid back about things and doesn't easily take offense, and still he was frustrated that we're obviously awake and up, we can hear his mother talking, and yet she hadn't made her grand appearance.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: wyliefool on January 03, 2012, 07:59:50 AM
This sums up pretty well how I felt about it. 

As far as the nap length/timing--DD is three months old and her nap schedule is still pretty erratic, and in fact most of the time still naps in-arms.  So, about the only thing we could count on was having about an hour of happiness until she melted down, and then doing the best we can from there.  It's not a matter of her napping for a known amount of time and being ready to go again, or just being able to put her in her crib and carry on with Christmas morning with just the adults.

I was bothered by it because it did seem subtly controlling to me.  This year, we announced that while we would keep alternating Thanksgiving between families, we were starting our new tradition of being in our own home for Christmas, and whoever wanted to join us was welcome.  The tone of it was very much 'Join us as we celebrate in our chosen way.'  Our chosen way was to open presents with the baby first thing in the morning.  She indicated she wanted to participate in that, and I'm sure she would have been very hurt if we had opened without her.  We even asked her specifically the night before if she wanted us to wake her or knock, which prompted the comment of 'No, we'll hear you get up.'  DH did eventually go up and get her.  He is normally very, very laid back about things and doesn't easily take offense, and still he was frustrated that we're obviously awake and up, we can hear his mother talking, and yet she hadn't made her grand appearance.

Well, if she's hurt it's her own fault for dawdling in her room. And if she complains, well, maybe next year the guest room isn't available. You could always point out that she's the one who decided to visit for only 16 hours, and to then sit around in her room cuts down the visit even more. Why bother?

Quote
I know it's been suggested, but if something like this occurs again I would just tap on the door and say "We're opening presents now" and then start. Also, given that you started late because of MIL, you would have been perfectly fine to say "Well, bub needs her nap now. The rest of the presents can wait until later in the day." And then take her away for her sleep.

This is what I'd try next year. And if it's still a problem, then christmas is you, DH, and kid only and any hangers-on can come visit some other time. Put your foot down firmly.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Petticoats on January 03, 2012, 08:22:50 AM
DH and I are occasional coffee drinkers--we have a pot, usually have coffee on hand, but are not the 'Fresh pot first thing in the morning' type of people.  MIL stays with us enough to know that this is the case--often she has to make herself a pot, and there have been a couple of unfortunate visits where we didn't have any on hand.  It would be pretty absurd for her to wait for coffee to be made for her.

<snip>

Does this mean that MIL made herself unpleasant when coffee was not provided for her? I'm definitely getting that "subtly controling" vibe you mention later, OP.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Surianne on January 03, 2012, 09:09:53 AM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"

I agree.  I can't see any rudeness on the part of the MIL here.  She was up at the prescribed time, she didn't realize that you required her to be downstairs at exactly 7am in order for the plans to work.  I wouldn't have realized that either, in her shoes, and I likely wouldn't have thought 15 minutes (or whatever) either way would ruin the morning.  It was a simple miscommunication.  Next time, knock on the door and let her know the baby's ready. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sophia on January 07, 2012, 01:14:27 PM
MIL was rude. 

She knew that baby was up because, as she said, she could hear baby wake up.

She knew OP and her husband was up, because babies don't get out of the crib by themselves.

There was therefore no need to knock on MIL's door, since the cue for the festivities to start (baby waking up) had happened and was known to happen.

She knew there was no reason to give the babies parents private time, because she knew that there was a short window in which to open presents. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: evely28 on January 07, 2012, 02:31:12 PM
Maybe a soft knock on the door and "Merry Christmas, the coffee's ready" would have gotten you want you wanted. If a second knock was needed "we start opening presents in five minutes" would be fine. OP it's your home for you and your DH to manage. With the apparent "mis-communication" and the late start in opening presents you would have been fine to re-evaluate with your DH and decide to open only a few presents instead of hurrying it through.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: edgypeanuts on January 07, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
To me it depends on the discussion you had.  As a childless person, I personally would not have realized the urgency of the timeline unless it was spelled out to me.  As in, "we need to start right away within a few minutes of her waking up or we won't get them done before she falls asleep." 

I also think you should have just stopped when she got cranky and just did the rest after her nap, if MIL missing some, then so be it.

Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: squeakers on January 07, 2012, 08:57:34 PM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"


Urgent? is a bit of an overstatement, but MIL knew there was only a short window to accomplish the purpose of the MIL's trip: to attend the opening of gifts with the new grandbaby. To refresh:

From the OP:

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

Oh yes, I understood that but MIL apparently didn't see the urgency despite being told that there was a need for it.  Or maybe she thought that the gifts could be opened after the nap which was described as being an hour.  Knocking on the door would have eliminated the OP's anxiety and allowed the morning to proceed.  I see the coffee pot reply as a bit of a red herring.

The nap doesn't last an hour.. the baby is awake for an hour including time to eat another bottle before going back to sleep.  Itty babies do that kind of schedule for a few more months.

I don't know that MIL was rude but she certainly wasn't listening: neither to what was discussed the night before nor to the sounds of people being up and at it.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sharnita on January 08, 2012, 06:42:12 AM
And it wasn't just that others were discussing it - she verbally commited to getting up when they baby got up.  Then in the morning she indicated she was waiting for a different cue.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Surianne on January 08, 2012, 09:46:26 AM
I guess the way I look at it is, which is more likely?  That the MIL sat up there thinking "Well, I've heard the correct noise, obviously they require us downstairs now or the present-opening won't work.  Oh well, I don't feel like going down yet" or that the MIL didn't quite understand the urgency of the timing? 

To me, unless there have been similar problems with the MIL in the past, it's more likely this was a miscommunication than rudeness on the MIL's part.  It could have been quickly cleared up by a knock on MIL's door accompanied by "Oh hey, if you guys are ready, the little one is up and the coffee's ready, time for presents!"  At least, that's the way it always worked in my family when someone was inadvertently dawdling  :)
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Betelnut on January 08, 2012, 09:58:43 AM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"


Urgent? is a bit of an overstatement, but MIL knew there was only a short window to accomplish the purpose of the MIL's trip: to attend the opening of gifts with the new grandbaby. To refresh:

From the OP:

Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

Oh yes, I understood that but MIL apparently didn't see the urgency despite being told that there was a need for it.  Or maybe she thought that the gifts could be opened after the nap which was described as being an hour.  Knocking on the door would have eliminated the OP's anxiety and allowed the morning to proceed.  I see the coffee pot reply as a bit of a red herring.

The nap doesn't last an hour.. the baby is awake for an hour including time to eat another bottle before going back to sleep.  Itty babies do that kind of schedule for a few more months.

I don't know that MIL was rude but she certainly wasn't listening: neither to what was discussed the night before nor to the sounds of people being up and at it.

The OP said the nap lasted an hour "if they are lucky."  So presents could be opened after this nap.  The MIL did say, hey, we'll be up and open presents at 7:00.  I'm not denying that.  (See quote from OP below.)

Quote
Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: artk2002 on January 08, 2012, 11:40:25 AM
The OP said the nap lasted an hour "if they are lucky."  So presents could be opened after this nap.  The MIL did say, hey, we'll be up and open presents at 7:00.  I'm not denying that.  (See quote from OP below.)

Quote
Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

I think you may be misinterpreting the "if we're lucky." I think she meant that it might be "as short as an hour" if they were lucky, but could be substantially longer. In another response, OP said that her MIL left at 10AM. So, baby wakes at 6:45 and is up for an hour, taking us to about 8AM. A minimum of an hour nap takes us to at least 9AM and probably later, with MIL leaving not long after that.

My take is that MIL said that she'd be up when she heard the baby, then changed the criterion to "hearing the coffee beep," which she did without letting anyone know. OP went on what she knew and that was that her MIL would be up when the baby was. MIL was rude, OP did nothing wrong.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: wolfie on January 08, 2012, 11:45:37 AM


The OP said the nap lasted an hour "if they are lucky."  So presents could be opened after this nap.  The MIL did say, hey, we'll be up and open presents at 7:00.  I'm not denying that.  (See quote from OP below.)

Quote
Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

I took that to mean that the very short window when the baby is up is an hour if they are lucky - not that the nap is an hour.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Betelnut on January 08, 2012, 01:13:21 PM


The OP said the nap lasted an hour "if they are lucky."  So presents could be opened after this nap.  The MIL did say, hey, we'll be up and open presents at 7:00.  I'm not denying that.  (See quote from OP below.)

Quote
Before going to bed Christmas Eve, we discussed the next morning--we told them that DD usually gets up around 7am, and so we would open presents then.  We told them that DD has a very short window when she wakes up in the morning before she's ready for a power nap (an hour if we're lucky, including her bottle).  DD's room is right next to the guest room and they assured us they'd hear her get up and we'd do presents then.

I took that to mean that the very short window when the baby is up is an hour if they are lucky - not that the nap is an hour.

Ha!  I guess there are several different ways to take that phrase.  I took it to mean the nap lasted an hour if they are lucky.  Oh well. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Roe on January 08, 2012, 02:06:47 PM
I don't really think MIL was rude (she obviously didn't know that there was an urgent need to start right at 7:00).  In her mind, she had three hours before she needed to leave.

A simple knock on the door would have prevented all.  "Hey, MIL, we're ready to start unwrapping now!"

I agree.  I can't see any rudeness on the part of the MIL here.  She was up at the prescribed time, she didn't realize that you required her to be downstairs at exactly 7am in order for the plans to work.  I wouldn't have realized that either, in her shoes, and I likely wouldn't have thought 15 minutes (or whatever) either way would ruin the morning.  It was a simple miscommunication.  Next time, knock on the door and let her know the baby's ready.

Absolutely. Pod!

I think it was a basic misunderstanding.  Honestly, I've never known a baby (and I was raised around babies) that would have "a meltdown" by being 15mins off schedule.  Fussy, yes...but meltdown? No. And how would the baby know the schedule anyway?  (unless baby was feeding off her parents frustration)

I also don't see the need to rush.  You open as many as you can before baby's nap and save the rest for later. So what if MIL doesn't like it?

Seems to me that OP had a vision in her head of what the morning would be like and it didn't follow her plan so she got frustrated.  I say that, not to be snarky but because I've BTDT.  As my children grew, I learned to be more flexible and go with the flow. 

I also don't see this as a "control" issue, unless there's some serious backstory. The OP said that she was sorry that her MIL couldn't stay longer so I doubt the MIL is controlling.

Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: KenveeB on January 08, 2012, 02:26:45 PM
I think it was a basic misunderstanding.  Honestly, I've never known a baby (and I was raised around babies) that would have "a meltdown" by being 15mins off schedule.  Fussy, yes...but meltdown? No. And how would the baby know the schedule anyway?  (unless baby was feeding off her parents frustration)

I also don't see the need to rush.  You open as many as you can before baby's nap and save the rest for later. So what if MIL doesn't like it?

Seems to me that OP had a vision in her head of what the morning would be like and it didn't follow her plan so she got frustrated.  I say that, not to be snarky but because I've BTDT.  As my children grew, I learned to be more flexible and go with the flow. 

I also don't see this as a "control" issue, unless there's some serious backstory. The OP said that she was sorry that her MIL couldn't stay longer so I doubt the MIL is controlling.

The baby didn't "know" the schedule, the baby set the schedule and the parents worked around it.  And from the OP's updates, MIL is the one who insisted on being present for the gift openings, insisted on being there for all the opening, and insisted on doing it on her own schedule by arbitrarily changing when she was going to go down ("when baby's up" vs "when coffee pot beeps").  OP was frustrated because she was trying to accommodate MIL's requirements and her baby's.  And at least she knew what baby's schedule was.  The answer for the future, I think, is go by baby's schedule and let MIL work around it or not as she chooses.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Surianne on January 08, 2012, 04:03:00 PM
I think it was a basic misunderstanding.  Honestly, I've never known a baby (and I was raised around babies) that would have "a meltdown" by being 15mins off schedule.  Fussy, yes...but meltdown? No. And how would the baby know the schedule anyway?  (unless baby was feeding off her parents frustration)

I also don't see the need to rush.  You open as many as you can before baby's nap and save the rest for later. So what if MIL doesn't like it?

Seems to me that OP had a vision in her head of what the morning would be like and it didn't follow her plan so she got frustrated.  I say that, not to be snarky but because I've BTDT.  As my children grew, I learned to be more flexible and go with the flow. 

I also don't see this as a "control" issue, unless there's some serious backstory. The OP said that she was sorry that her MIL couldn't stay longer so I doubt the MIL is controlling.

The baby didn't "know" the schedule, the baby set the schedule and the parents worked around it.  And from the OP's updates, MIL is the one who insisted on being present for the gift openings, insisted on being there for all the opening, and insisted on doing it on her own schedule by arbitrarily changing when she was going to go down ("when baby's up" vs "when coffee pot beeps").  OP was frustrated because she was trying to accommodate MIL's requirements and her baby's.  And at least she knew what baby's schedule was.  The answer for the future, I think, is go by baby's schedule and let MIL work around it or not as she chooses.

Another option would be to do MIL the courtesy of taking 30 seconds to give a reminder knock on her door and see if she's ready to head downstairs or not. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sharnita on January 08, 2012, 04:07:07 PM
I think the problem with that is that you are disregarding the fact that they clearly stated they neither needed or wanted that.  So if they are actually about to leave the room and you knock to let them know it could seem as if you didn't trust their word or ability to follow through on what they said they'd do.  If I were a guest and said that I'd hear the baby and come down then I'd hear the baby and come down. I don't know that I'd be actually offended but maybe a bit amused that they didn't think I wascapable or willing to actually follow through.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Surianne on January 08, 2012, 04:09:44 PM
I think the problem with that is that you are disregarding the fact that they clearly stated they neither needed or wanted that.  So if they are actually about to leave the room and you knock to let them know it could seem as if you didn't trust their word or ability to follow through on what they said they'd do.  If I were a guest and said that I'd hear the baby and come down then I'd hear the baby and come down. I don't know that I'd be actually offended but maybe a bit amused that they didn't think I wascapable or willing to actually follow through.

Nope, I'm not disregarding it -- I think I've explained my reasons a few times, in that I don't personally feel there is enough evidence to assume the MIL is rudely ignoring the baby noises on purpose.  I stand by that opinion.  I know others disagree, and that's fine.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sharnita on January 08, 2012, 04:13:05 PM
I think the problem with that is that you are disregarding the fact that they clearly stated they neither needed or wanted that.  So if they are actually about to leave the room and you knock to let them know it could seem as if you didn't trust their word or ability to follow through on what they said they'd do.  If I were a guest and said that I'd hear the baby and come down then I'd hear the baby and come down. I don't know that I'd be actually offended but maybe a bit amused that they didn't think I wascapable or willing to actually follow through.

Nope, I'm not disregarding it -- I think I've explained my reasons a few times, in that I don't personally feel there is enough evidence to assume the MIL is rudely ignoring the baby noises on purpose.  I stand by that opinion.  I know others disagree, and that's fine.

Sorry, I think I was unclear.  If I were your guest instead of MIL, you would seem to be disregarding it because I would stick to what I had said and I would feel like I my ability to follow through on a simple commitment I had made.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Surianne on January 08, 2012, 06:38:00 PM
Sharnita, I think it's me and not you -- I have a nasty cold or the flu or something, and I tried to reply to you twice now and neither time was coherent.  I think I've lost the plot a little, might be a good day for just browsing ehell and reading rather than trying to say stuff  ;D  Thanks for trying to explain, though!
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Danismom on January 10, 2012, 01:03:45 AM
I think the difference here is that MIL didn't come out of her room when expected.  After about 10 minutes, I think the OP would be okay to knock.  MIL said OP didn't need to knock to wake her up and OP didn't.  However, when MIL is significantly late exiting the room to get things going then a kind knock can let her know that not only are they awake but they are also ready for things to get going.

Perhaps I think that MIL realized baby was awake but didn't realize that everything was ready for the morning.  She may've thought that the morning routine (changing the diaper, maybe a breakfast bottle, etc) took longer than it did and she thought she had more time between the baby's wake up cry and ready for presents.  It sounds like she was ready in the room but didn't realize that the family was ready for her. 
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Sophia on January 10, 2012, 10:03:04 AM
... It sounds like she was ready in the room but didn't realize that the family was ready for her.

I think this is the dividing line between those that think MIL was rude and those that think she was fine. 

Myself, being in the MIL_was_rude camp, think that since Baby opening presents was the reason MIL was there, and that there was a small window in which to do this.  I think MIL should have gotten up as soon as she heard the baby wake up and been ready and waiting by the tree.  The only reason I can think of to dawdle in the room "waiting for the coffee to be ready" is to take control and once again be the Important Person For Which The Festivities Wait On.
Title: Re: Christmas Morning--Is the Coffee Ready?
Post by: Surianne on January 10, 2012, 11:54:03 AM
I think the difference here is that MIL didn't come out of her room when expected.  After about 10 minutes, I think the OP would be okay to knock.  MIL said OP didn't need to knock to wake her up and OP didn't.  However, when MIL is significantly late exiting the room to get things going then a kind knock can let her know that not only are they awake but they are also ready for things to get going.

Perhaps I think that MIL realized baby was awake but didn't realize that everything was ready for the morning.  She may've thought that the morning routine (changing the diaper, maybe a breakfast bottle, etc) took longer than it did and she thought she had more time between the baby's wake up cry and ready for presents.  It sounds like she was ready in the room but didn't realize that the family was ready for her.

That's what I was trying to say earlier (but wasn't being clear enough); I agree on all points.