Etiquette Hell

Etiquette School is in session! => Complete Silence => Topic started by: lellah on January 09, 2012, 12:30:23 PM

Title: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: lellah on January 09, 2012, 12:30:23 PM
I attend a small, Mainline Protestant church and am one of the younger adult members.  Our congregation has a hand full of members who have come from more conservative (in all ways) denominations.  We also have a lot of diversity in what people wear on Sunday morning: I personally favor vintage skirts and cardigans; think 1950s librarian.  But one particular church member, who is both elderly and from one of these more conservative traditions, has taken me in hand clothing-wise.   She has taken to suggesting my knee-length skirts are too short and that my collar bone-baring tops are too low cut.  Nearly every week she has some comment about what I have on.  I generally ignore what she's said and greet her affably.

Last Sunday I was wearing a big, woolly turtleneck sweater with jeans and boots because it was especially cold out.  On her way up to receive Holy Communion she bent over and said not-at-all quietly to me in a very quiet sanctuary "I don't care for the dungarees but at least you've covered your bosoms for once."   I ignored her.

My attitude is that, well, only one of us looks crazy and inappropriate.  I was hardly the only person wearing jeans that morning, and several other women dress less conservatively than I do, which isn't really saying much.  I should add that this woman's behavior isn't connected to dementia or similar problems: I've known her many years, and she's always prized her bluntness. 

But, really, yikes. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Reason on January 09, 2012, 12:33:41 PM
"How kind of you to take an interest" said coldly as you turn your back applies here. Nothing is really gained here by trying to prove her wrong.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: exitzero on January 09, 2012, 12:34:11 PM
I attend a small, Mainline Protestant church and am one of the younger adult members.  Our congregation has a hand full of members who have come from more conservative (in all ways) denominations.  We also have a lot of diversity in what people wear on Sunday morning: I personally favor vintage skirts and cardigans; think 1950s librarian.  But one particular church member, who is both elderly and from one of these more conservative traditions, has taken me in hand clothing-wise.   She has taken to suggesting my knee-length skirts are too short and that my collar bone-baring tops are too low cut.  Nearly every week she has some comment about what I have on.  I generally ignore what she's said and greet her affably.

Last Sunday I was wearing a big, woolly turtleneck sweater with jeans and boots because it was especially cold out.  On her way up to receive Holy Communion she bent over and said not-at-all quietly to me in a very quiet sanctuary "I don't care for the dungarees but at least you've covered your bosoms for once."   I ignored her.

My attitude is that, well, only one of us looks crazy and inappropriate.  I was hardly the only person wearing jeans that morning, and several other women dress less conservatively than I do, which isn't really saying much.  I should add that this woman's behavior isn't connected to dementia or similar problems: I've known her many years, and she's always prized her bluntness. 

But, really, yikes.

I, of course, am headed straight to hell, but the urge to flash her and say, "here ya go" would be overwhelming.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: jayhawk on January 09, 2012, 12:35:11 PM
My first thought:  She's just jealous  >:D

I don't have any advice, just to tell you that there's probably not too much you can do to change her; I'm sure you're fine and others know you are, too.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Searcher on January 09, 2012, 12:36:28 PM
Knee-length sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I'd address it with "Thanks for your concern, but I do not require assistance in clothing selection.  Please consider this a closed subject."

If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Yvaine on January 09, 2012, 12:37:14 PM
From what you describe, it sounds like you are within the norm for this congregation and she is trying to enforce a standard that is beyond that. She's rude and intrusive, and ignoring her may be the best way to go. If you were the only one in the church wearing knee-length skirts and collarbone-baring tops, while everyone else wore ankle-length skirts and turtlenecks, then she'd have more of a leg to stand on--but she'd still be rude in her approach.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: mechtilde on January 09, 2012, 12:38:44 PM
If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

It could be worth doing that anyway- her behaviour could easily put off potential new members of the congregation.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: #borecore on January 09, 2012, 12:38:52 PM
"I prefer not to talk about anyone's bosoms in church." or "I'm glad your bosoms are covered, too."
:)
--- Edited to cut out some replies I think are indeed too rude.

Gosh, I am really sorry. I hate when people comment negatively on others' clothing choices to them. I can't think of a single moderately kind thing to say back except, "OK" or "Fine."
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: violinp on January 09, 2012, 12:59:26 PM
Well, that woman would've been apoplectic at my attire yesterday. My dress barely came to my thighs, and the sleeves were split (on purpose). I wore a hat, though.  :P I think "So kind of you to take an interest" would work very well.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Searcher on January 09, 2012, 01:05:26 PM
I think "So kind of you to take an interest" would work very well.

Unfortunately this woman might take it literally and not in the spirit in which it is intended.  I think it's too subtle to make clear to her that she needs to stop commenting to the OP on her outfits.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Wulfie on January 09, 2012, 01:29:47 PM
Knee-length sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I'd address it with "Thanks for your concern, but I do not require assistance in clothing selection.  Please consider this a closed subject."

If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

POD. This is probably the best way to handle it.

"I prefer not to talk about anyone's bosoms in church." or "I'm glad your bosoms are covered, too."
:)

Or, "Nobody says 'dungarees' or 'bosoms' anymore. They're just jeans and breasts."

Or "If someone who's opinion I respected said something like that, I'd still pick out the clothes I want."

Gosh, I am really sorry. I hate when people comment negatively on others' clothing choices to them. I can't think of a single moderately kind thing to say back except, "OK" or "Fine."

WOW, not appropriate responces at all. This is simply retaliatory rudeness.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: emwithme on January 09, 2012, 02:33:18 PM
I find it awful when people comment on what you're wearing at church.  To me, as long as you're relatively covered up (ie not embarrassing yourself!), then it doesn't matter what you've got on.  It says more about the person commenting than it does about the one being commented upon (unless, of course, you retaliate rudely). 

My God doesn't care if you're wearing jeans, work clothes or your traditional Sunday best - he just cares that you're there, and what's in your heart. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Ida on January 09, 2012, 02:39:36 PM
Seems as though she's looking at you a lot. Hmmmm.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 09, 2012, 02:41:15 PM
I've certainly seen some completely inappropriate clothing for church.  If you have to keep tugging on your skirt to make sure your tush stays covered, it's too short for church!

However, I would never say anything.  OP, your outfits sound lovely and total church appropriate.  I think I'd give this busy body the cut direct and only speak to her when absolutely necessary.

A friend of mine started dating a girl whose family was quite religious so he started going to church with her.  He was taught to wear his best clothes to church and at the time, his best jacket happened to be leather.  Not motorcycle style, just a leather coat.  The minister approached him and told him that it wasn't appropriate attire for church.  My friend looked him straight in the eye and said, 'My mother taught me to wear my best clothes to church and right now, this is the best I've got.'  Not another word was said.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Really? on January 09, 2012, 04:05:00 PM
Outdoor Girl, good response from your friend. I like that, polite but gets the point acrosss.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: hobish on January 09, 2012, 04:24:02 PM
"I prefer not to talk about anyone's bosoms in church." or "I'm glad your bosoms are covered, too." :)
--- Edited to cut out some replies I think are indeed too rude.

Gosh, I am really sorry. I hate when people comment negatively on others' clothing choices to them. I can't think of a single moderately kind thing to say back except, "OK" or "Fine."

Oh, my goodness, i like that one a lot :) It's funny, it's polite, and it gets the point across, i think.

Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Amava on January 09, 2012, 04:40:19 PM
This may be a cultural difference, but, is she even supposed to talk, no matter how quietly, during the service?
I don't often go to church, but when I do go, the only thing one might hear during the service are a few toddlers saying something and being shushed. For the rest, nobody gives a peep except for the prayers that are said together.

I'm not sure of course because we all live in different parts of the world, but against my background she was so far out of line that she was starting to see a whole new line at the horizon... And the etiquette here would be to not reply at all. Though the whole community would probably be giving her stunned looks.  :o
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: violinp on January 09, 2012, 04:42:10 PM
This may be a cultural difference, but, is she even supposed to talk, no matter how quietly, during the service?
I don't often go to church, but when I do go, the only thing one might hear during the service are a few toddlers saying something and being shushed. For the rest, nobody gives a peep except for the prayers that are said together.

I'm not sure of course because we all live in different parts of the world, but against my background she was so far out of line that she was starting to see a whole new line at the horizon... And the etiquette here would be to not reply at all. Though the whole community would probably be giving her stunned looks.  :o

You're very lucky. Everyone here talks during the preludes and I can barely hear myself think, let alone prepare for worship.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: exitzero on January 09, 2012, 05:57:27 PM
You should send her to our church when we have pajama day. Bet she wouldn't ever complain again.  :)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: diesel_darlin on January 09, 2012, 06:34:26 PM
You should send her to our church when we have pajama day. Bet she wouldn't ever complain again.  :)


Or Hawaiian shirt day, or Hillbilly day, or you get the point! ;D

This is one of the reasons I love, love, LOVE my church. The elders often dress up in their "Sunday best", but the rest of us are usually wearing pretty blouses and jeans, or t-shirts and tennis shoes, or comfy dresses. Cowboy boots are worn quite a bit also.

In my opinion, if this lady has enough brain space in church to belittle the OP over her outfits, she isnt at church for the right reason.
OutdoorGirl, your friend's reply was wonderful!  :)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: gramma dishes on January 09, 2012, 07:10:53 PM
If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

It could be worth doing that anyway- her behaviour could easily put off potential new members of the congregation.

I agree.  This may well be a reason not too many people in your age group are currently attending this particular church. 

If even the pastor implies though that maybe your clothing is indeed a little inappropriate, maybe it's time to seek out a new congregation that actually remembers why we are in the church in the first place.  Hint:  It's NOT to critique other people's apparel.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: aiki on January 09, 2012, 07:27:08 PM
I should add that this woman's behavior isn't connected to dementia or similar problems: I've known her many years, and she's always prized her bluntness. 

I have to say, dementia was my first thought here, but since you think it's not, I'd address the issue here.

"Mrs Blunt, I am trying very hard to be polite to you, but I need to remind you that you are not my mother, and it is not your business to criticize my dress. Please keep it to yourself." 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Iris on January 09, 2012, 08:25:42 PM


I, of course, am headed straight to hell, but the urge to flash her and say, "here ya go" would be overwhelming.

Room in that handbasket for one more?

My very best and politest response would be my patented Iris Death Stare TM. The one that leaves people wondering whether I'd really tear out their jugular...
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: kitty-cat on January 09, 2012, 08:29:35 PM
If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

It could be worth doing that anyway- her behaviour could easily put off potential new members of the congregation.

I agree.  This may well be a reason not too many people in your age group are currently attending this particular church. 

If even the pastor implies though that maybe your clothing is indeed a little inappropriate, maybe it's time to seek out a new congregation that actually remembers why we are in the church in the first place.  Hint:  It's NOT to critique other people's apparel.

*southern accent* But I thought that was the point of church. For everyone to get together once a week and compare clothing!

:P
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: gramma dishes on January 09, 2012, 08:30:53 PM
If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

It could be worth doing that anyway- her behaviour could easily put off potential new members of the congregation.

I agree.  This may well be a reason not too many people in your age group are currently attending this particular church. 

If even the pastor implies though that maybe your clothing is indeed a little inappropriate, maybe it's time to seek out a new congregation that actually remembers why we are in the church in the first place.  Hint:  It's NOT to critique other people's apparel.

*southern accent* But I thought that was the point of church. For everyone to get together once a week and compare clothing!

:P

LOL!  I stand corrected!   ;D
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: iradney on January 10, 2012, 12:41:20 AM
I think in this case, it might be prudent to get the pastor involved. I think the lady is being terribly petty and judgemental, and as it is happening in the church, I feel the pastor may be able to handle this.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: camlan on January 10, 2012, 08:01:29 AM
I once witnessed a similar situation to the OP--a young woman was accosted by an older woman, who was pointing out all the ways the younger woman's clothing was not suitable for church. The younger woman was dressed in a calf-length denim skirt, a button-down shirt and a cardigan. A bit casual maybe, but since many of the people at my church wear jeans to Mass, not at all inappropriate.

The younger woman listened politely and waited until the older woman finished up her tirade. Then she smiled, said, "Well, at least I'm here!" and walked away.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: SeptGurl on January 10, 2012, 08:03:32 AM
For some reason, this situation reminds me of the Bible passage in Luke 20:45 about the widow's mite. I think it's the part about the teachers of the law and the flowing robes that is speaking to me.

To me, what you're encountering sounds like an inflated sense of self-importance. There's an implicit assumption that you should take heed of her wardrobe advice. She may even believe that she's being helpful. Although I may be reading more into this story than what's there, it almost sounds to me like she judges whether people are church-worthy based on their attire. I have no doubt that this judgment occurs in many congregations; however, that she would feel compelled to voice it is something else entirely.

Of all the responses I've seen, "How kind of you to take an interest" is the one that seems most appropriate to me. I'd follow that with a dose of bean dip. With strong eye contact and tone, it could put a stop to her intrusions. If it doesn't work the first time, repeat as needed. I would suggest not engaging her on this topic or attempting to defend yourself. If you show complete disinterest, she will find it less interesting to accost you.

Last, there's the issue of her approaching you during Communion. While her topic of conversation is unwelcome, the fact that she's interrupting your Communion meditation could be considered a bigger picture problem. You could address that with her rather than the topic of clothing as well.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 10, 2012, 08:05:01 AM
The younger woman listened politely and waited until the older woman finished up her tirade. Then she smiled, said, "Well, at least I'm here!" and walked away.

What a perfect response!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Twik on January 10, 2012, 10:22:18 AM
I think in this case, it might be prudent to get the pastor involved. I think the lady is being terribly petty and judgemental, and as it is happening in the church, I feel the pastor may be able to handle this.

I agree - this sort of behaviour is not appropriate if the pastor wants a happy congregation. Her "bluntness" may be causing problems for other people as well.

At worst, you can then say, once, "the pastor has confirmed that I am dressed appropriately. If you have any further issues, discuss it with him".
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Searcher on January 10, 2012, 10:37:21 AM
Of all the responses I've seen, "How kind of you to take an interest" is the one that seems most appropriate to me. I'd follow that with a dose of bean dip. With strong eye contact and tone, it could put a stop to her intrusions. If it doesn't work the first time, repeat as needed. I would suggest not engaging her on this topic or attempting to defend yourself. If you show complete disinterest, she will find it less interesting to accost you.

I think this woman is more likely to view "How kind of you to take an interest" as validating her opinions and ratifying what she thinks is right to express them.  She needs something less subtle to get across that she needs to shut her mouth.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on January 10, 2012, 10:51:46 AM
I wonder why she is fixated on the OP.? or does she do this to others as well.?

Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Flora Louise on January 10, 2012, 10:52:34 AM
. . .   Last, there's the issue of her approaching you during Communion. While her topic of conversation is unwelcome, the fact that she's interrupting your Communion meditation could be considered a bigger picture problem. You could address that with her rather than the topic of clothing as well.

Oh yes! This is the big issue for me. OP, I think you should say to her, "I'm taking communion," in a tone you would use for a child who is interrupting a solemn ceremony. It's absolutely unacceptable.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Firecat on January 10, 2012, 12:08:26 PM
I should add that this woman's behavior isn't connected to dementia or similar problems: I've known her many years, and she's always prized her bluntness. 

I have to say, dementia was my first thought here, but since you think it's not, I'd address the issue here.

"Mrs Blunt, I am trying very hard to be polite to you, but I need to remind you that you are not my mother, and it is not your business to criticize my dress. Please keep it to yourself."

I actually rather like this response. Except that I would eliminate the "Please," because this is in no way a request. Instead, I'd suggest changing the last sentence to: "Do not bring this up to me again."
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: lellah on January 10, 2012, 12:33:25 PM
I wonder why she is fixated on the OP.? or does she do this to others as well.?

She does say occasionally rude things to other people, and church leadership handles those situations as they arise.  She, as you say, fixates on me for her clothing remarks.  We're very (very!) distantly related, so I think she has a sense that what I wear is a reflection on "our" family or on her personally. 

I really wish she were a person with whom confrontation was beneficial. Alas, she just has a notion that, as an elderly person, she's entitled to receive respect while giving none.   
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: gramma dishes on January 10, 2012, 12:34:50 PM
Alas, she just has a notion that, as an elderly person, she's entitled to receive respect while giving none.   

Perhaps it's time for you to disabuse her of that notion!   ;)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Hexteacher on January 10, 2012, 02:56:25 PM
She would definitely not like what I wear to church.  I'm a christian biker, so I usually show up to church in full black (slightly tatty) leathers, with a cut off (leather waistcoat) with a LARGE white cross on the back.   ;D

A previous poster said that it's what is in your heart that matters, and I feel this is entirely correct.  In this position my response would be "I'm here to worship", and leave it at that.   
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: audrey1962 on January 10, 2012, 03:56:48 PM
If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

It could be worth doing that anyway- her behaviour could easily put off potential new members of the congregation.

I, for one, would not attend a church if a member said that to me.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: MrsJWine on January 10, 2012, 04:15:28 PM
I think you need to make her a (high-collared) t-shirt that says, "At least my bosoms are covered."
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: O'Dell on January 10, 2012, 04:47:22 PM
If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

It could be worth doing that anyway- her behaviour could easily put off potential new members of the congregation.

I, for one, would not attend a church if a member said that to me.

Ditto. I also wouldn't attend a church where I heard someone say that to anyone...and in the sanctuary at that. I'd be wondering what about me would be nit-picked if I attended regularly. Another vote here for saying something to the pastor.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Firecat on January 10, 2012, 05:30:56 PM
I think you need to make her a (high-collared) t-shirt that says, "At least my bosoms are covered."

LOL! If I lived near the OP, I'd be tempted to show up in my Renaissance Festival outfit...(that is, LOTS of cleavage), point to the OP with her collar bones showing, and say "That's not an exposed bosom," and then point to myself and say, "THIS is an exposed bosom."
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Lynnv on January 10, 2012, 05:37:18 PM
She would definitely not like what I wear to church.  I'm a christian biker, so I usually show up to church in full black (slightly tatty) leathers, with a cut off (leather waistcoat) with a LARGE white cross on the back.   ;D

Same here.   ;D

Well-similar anyway (my jacket is textile rather than leather  and I always have the fashionable "hair by helmet" look going).
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on January 10, 2012, 05:48:54 PM
I think in this case, it might be prudent to get the pastor involved. I think the lady is being terribly petty and judgemental, and as it is happening in the church, I feel the pastor may be able to handle this.

I agree - this sort of behaviour is not appropriate if the pastor wants a happy congregation. Her "bluntness" may be causing problems for other people as well.

At worst, you can then say, once, "the pastor has confirmed that I am dressed appropriately. If you have any further issues, discuss it with him".

I can guarantee you that would drive me away from a church in a heartbeat. I'm not real religious and not much of a churchgoer honestly but at least when I went to Mass on Christmas Eve, no one complained about my boho blouse and hippie broomstick skirt.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: diesel_darlin on January 10, 2012, 06:02:58 PM
She would definitely not like what I wear to church.  I'm a christian biker, so I usually show up to church in full black (slightly tatty) leathers, with a cut off (leather waistcoat) with a LARGE white cross on the back.   ;D

Same here.   ;D

Well-similar anyway (my jacket is textile rather than leather  and I always have the fashionable "hair by helmet" look going).


Y'all can come sit by me  ;D ;D Some of my best friends are Christian Bikers. Curtis has a beard that goes almost down to his bellybutton. He looks scary, but has a heart of gold.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Goodness on January 10, 2012, 07:15:05 PM
Raised eyebrows and a shocked-sounding "I beg your pardon?" works well with older ladies. And the old harridan needs to know that 'bosom' refers to the entire brassiere-clad part of a woman's chest; each woman only has one. Collar bones are not part of it. And they haven't been considered indecent, even in church, since about 1910.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Winterlight on January 11, 2012, 11:44:07 AM
If that doesn't work, you might ask the pastor or elders for assistance.

It could be worth doing that anyway- her behaviour could easily put off potential new members of the congregation.

I, for one, would not attend a church if a member said that to me.

I would also be very uncomfortable if I was approached in this fashion.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Elfmama on January 11, 2012, 01:39:33 PM
I think you need to make her a (high-collared) t-shirt that says, "At least my bosoms are covered."

LOL! If I lived near the OP, I'd be tempted to show up in my Renaissance Festival outfit...(that is, LOTS of cleavage), point to the OP with her collar bones showing, and say "That's not an exposed bosom," and then point to myself and say, "THIS is an exposed bosom."
Yes!  There are several Rennies and SCAdians here -- we could ALL show up in full Tudor/Elizabethan/Italian Ren garb.  Bonus points if we make the responses at Mass in Latin.

Failing that, I think you do need to approach the pastor, especially since she interrupted you during communion!  :o When I still accompanied DH to Mass, there were lots of people there in jeans and other casual, comfortable clothes.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Miriam on January 11, 2012, 07:25:41 PM
I had a friend who was once confronted and yelled at in the ladies room because part of her back showed when she reached over to retrieve her purse. Woman yelled for seven minutes about how the small of her back is tempting her husband and she should be ashamed for wearing such garb to church, all the while other women in the bathroom minding their own business. Friend decided she was in the wrong because the other woman must have marital issues and she shouldn't have worn a shirt that lifts when she reaches over. I told her to never invite me to such a hell of a church.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Sirius on January 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
I think this person deserves being told, politely, "If you don't stop commenting on my clothing, I'll have a word with the pastor." 

Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: aiki on January 11, 2012, 09:26:16 PM
I think you need to make her a (high-collared) t-shirt that says, "At least my bosoms are covered."

I'm envisioning one that has something like this on the, ahem, chest area

MY BOSOMS
are covered
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: diesel_darlin on January 11, 2012, 11:08:02 PM
I think you need to make her a (high-collared) t-shirt that says, "At least my bosoms are covered."

I'm envisioning one that has something like this on the, ahem, chest area

MY BOSOMS
are covered


 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Ceallach on January 11, 2012, 11:33:53 PM
My mother is big on dressing a certain way for church - we even had special "church clothes" growing up.  The traditional Sunday Best!  She used to be horrified at the outfits people wore, particularly the teenagers with slogans, midriff, bikie clothes etc.  (The girls in our family weren't allowed to wear nice trousers to church even - long skirts and stockings only!)

Then a priest explained to her that he'd rather people came to church even if they only had rags to wear, than not come at all.      She still dresses up for church, but she's not judgmental about what other people wear anymore. Sure, usually it's just their personal preference, but it may also be what they have clean, or what they have. And God probably doesn't care what they're wearing.  That always reminds me of that scene in Sister Act actually, where the priest is excited that the street youth came to church!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: violinp on January 12, 2012, 12:28:27 AM
My mother is big on dressing a certain way for church - we even had special "church clothes" growing up.  The traditional Sunday Best!  She used to be horrified at the outfits people wore, particularly the teenagers with slogans, midriff, bikie clothes etc.  (The girls in our family weren't allowed to wear nice trousers to church even - long skirts and stockings only!)

Then a priest explained to her that he'd rather people came to church even if they only had rags to wear, than not come at all.      She still dresses up for church, but she's not judgmental about what other people wear anymore. Sure, usually it's just their personal preference, but it may also be what they have clean, or what they have. And God probably doesn't care what they're wearing.  That always reminds me of that scene in Sister Act actually, where the priest is excited that the street youth came to church!

POD!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: BeagleMommy on January 13, 2012, 11:43:03 AM
OP, I also favor the 50's librarian/Mad Men look for a lot of my clothing options.  I also like jeans and Tshirts for casual.  This woman would hate some of my dressier options.  They tend to swing toward the Bettie Page/Vargas girl looks (only not quite so extreme).

I'd be tempted to respond with an Eeyore type "Thanks for noticing".  ;D
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Sirius on January 18, 2012, 04:01:38 PM
I had a friend who was once confronted and yelled at in the ladies room because part of her back showed when she reached over to retrieve her purse. Woman yelled for seven minutes about how the small of her back is tempting her husband and she should be ashamed for wearing such garb to church, all the while other women in the bathroom minding their own business. Friend decided she was in the wrong because the other woman must have marital issues and she shouldn't have worn a shirt that lifts when she reaches over. I told her to never invite me to such a hell of a church.

What surprises me is that no one else who was in the restroom spoke up.  Also, if I had been that friend I'd have gone straight to the pastor.  There's no excuse for behavior like that in a church. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: NyaChan on January 18, 2012, 05:39:18 PM
At a mosque/masjid it is considered respectful to wear very modest dress (men & women) and cover one's hair (mostly for women, though men do wear prayer caps).  One time a woman in her 20s who was new to the community came to our masjid for the first time and did not have her hair covered.  An elderly man (no one knew who he was) went and loudly told her that her hair should be covered and doesn't she know any better than to be so disrespectful.  The poor woman turned around and walked out.  Luckily (and this is what I loved about our community) two nearby men who heard immediately pulled him aside and explained to him in no uncertain tone that it was completely inappropriate for him to approach the girl at all let alone chastise her about her clothing.  Meanwhile a nearby couple (young couple, used to babysit for their kiddos) went outside and apologized to the girl for that man's behavior, and said they understood if she felt uncomfortable, but if she was ok, would she please give the place another chance.  She ended up going home that night but did come back later without incident.  Never saw that man again...naturally the community was devastated  ::)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: SamiHami on January 18, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
"Actually, I have been meaning to talk with you about your clothing. You see, the church just isn't attracting younger people and of course you realize that we need them in order to grow our congregation. Unfortunately, ladies wearing unreasonably stifling and old fashioned clothing are sending out a negative message that we are rigid and intolerant. I'll be happy to give you some tips on what is considered appropriate church clothing nowadays!"

No? How is that any ruder than what she is doing?

Okay...evil Sami is slinking away...
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: immadz on January 19, 2012, 07:48:36 PM
I would absolutely talk to the pastor about it. Not only because this is affecting you directly but also because newer members who hear this are unlikely to come back.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Cami on January 23, 2012, 08:44:40 AM
I'm going to add to the number of those suggesting you talk to the pastor.

I've worked in individual churches and for the state office of a mainline Protestant denomination. ALL mainline Protestant denominations are deeply concerned about declining numbers, especially amongst yound adults. It is a matter of great focus and quite a bit of time, effort and money has been expended trying to solve this problem.

So if your church has a member who is harasssing others  -- and that is what she is doing, harassing -- your pastor should handle it asap.  No pastor worth his or her salt would want anyone harassing other parishioners out of the church.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: kckgirl on January 23, 2012, 08:57:31 AM
Our pastor did act when a woman approached another women in our church lobby and berated her for how she was dressed (jeans and t-shirt). The pastor told her that all are welcome and we don't do that here, then asked her to leave. Unfortunately, the jeans/t-shirt lady was completely embarrassed, left immediately, and never came back. What a loss for us all!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: exitzero on January 23, 2012, 09:08:12 AM
I remember a story a woman told me years ago that stuck with me ever since.

She was 16 years old, living in an abusive house hold. The only solice she has was the church. She would walk miles to go Mass, because her father disapproved of her going and would not let her take the car.

She walked in a snow storm once, wearing the warmest things she had...jeans and a sweater.

The priest met her at the door and told her she was not welcome in dressed like that.

It was the start of long, rocky downward spiral that took years for her to pull out of.

Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Giraffe, Esq on January 23, 2012, 09:28:25 AM
I remember a story a woman told me years ago that stuck with me ever since.

She was 16 years old, living in an abusive house hold. The only solice she has was the church. She would walk miles to go Mass, because her father disapproved of her going and would not let her take the car.

She walked in a snow storm once, wearing the warmest things she had...jeans and a sweater.

The priest met her at the door and told her she was not welcome in dressed like that.

It was the start of long, rocky downward spiral that took years for her to pull out of.

Oh, exitzero, that's so sad.  It makes me want to cry.   :'(

At my church, anyone who is super dressed up is clearly a visitor.  There's a large focus on seekers, so we have people from all walks of life -- and thus all types of wardrobes.  It's always been one of my favorite things there, how welcoming they are to everybody.  Even more so after hearing these sad stories of judgmental people at churches.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: exitzero on January 23, 2012, 10:18:41 AM
I remember a story a woman told me years ago that stuck with me ever since.

She was 16 years old, living in an abusive house hold. The only solice she has was the church. She would walk miles to go Mass, because her father disapproved of her going and would not let her take the car.

She walked in a snow storm once, wearing the warmest things she had...jeans and a sweater.

The priest met her at the door and told her she was not welcome in dressed like that.

It was the start of long, rocky downward spiral that took years for her to pull out of.

Oh, exitzero, that's so sad.  It makes me want to cry.   :'(

At my church, anyone who is super dressed up is clearly a visitor.  There's a large focus on seekers, so we have people from all walks of life -- and thus all types of wardrobes.  It's always been one of my favorite things there, how welcoming they are to everybody.  Even more so after hearing these sad stories of judgmental people at churches.

My church is like that, too. Anything short of naked is ok. I bet there would even be some people who make a case for that!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: lellah on January 23, 2012, 11:14:22 AM
Wow. I'm kind of overwhelmed by the response here.  You guys have convinced me this is a bigger problem than I had really considered. 

This Sunday I confronted the Bosom Bully and said very calmly that her public (and loud!) criticisms of my clothing were not appropriate.  I explained that, although she was welcome to her opinions, expressing these opinions in such a public way would really turn off people who hadn't been in church as long as she and I had.  She could have as many opinions on that as she wanted---I said this because she began telling me why she was right about "modesty"--but she also had to realize that not everyone grew up the way she did and we can't expect them to act as if they did.  I also told her that, should she attempt such public criticisms in the future, I would sweetly but equally loudly and publicly remark that "isn't it lucky for us that, while people look at outward appearances, God looks at our hearts, and that our church knows that." 

A lot of really good advice was given here.  Thank you all.  I should add that I'm not really comfortable addressing this with the pastor.  Not because I can't say "bosom" in front of a man of the cloth. He's just very shy, and I -know- he'd hate to have to sit down with this steamroller of a woman and tell her what's what.  It's his job, I know.  But I suspect handling it myself is not only kinder to him but ultimately more effective.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: gramma dishes on January 23, 2012, 11:17:16 AM
What was her reaction?
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: lellah on January 23, 2012, 11:31:44 AM
What was her reaction?

Angry sputtering!  After I said my piece, I told her I wasn't trying to have a discussion about the merits of her position or mine, just to let her know how I would be responding and why.  Then I told her that I hoped she had a pleasant afternoon.  She just looked kind of shocked when I walked away.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: #borecore on January 23, 2012, 11:32:23 AM
Yay, Lellah!

I think you handled it beautifully!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: gramma dishes on January 23, 2012, 11:41:17 AM
Well done!   :)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: BeagleMommy on January 23, 2012, 11:49:22 AM
Bravo, Lellah!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: violinp on January 23, 2012, 03:27:18 PM
Congrats, Lellah!  ;D
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: VorFemme on January 23, 2012, 06:26:12 PM
Evil and Snarky are wondering what the woman thinks a "bosom" is...............because it almost sounds like she thinks anything below the collar bone is "cleavage".  Not that I haven't seen a few people at the Renn Faire wearing corsets that have hiked their cleavage up MOST of the way to their collar bone..............but, seriously - from what I've seen, most people consider the bosom to be something a little lower down than the collar bone...................like two or three inches, anyway, unless the person is VERY tall, an extremely large cup size, or something. 

I do remember a turn of the (last) century writer who had one of her church going characters make a joke about someone wearing a dress with at low back that was trimmed with real vertebrae (in a time when high collars, sleeves of some kind, and long skirts were considered the ONLY proper public attire for modest women).  She also wrote in the 1920s and 1930s and mentioned "flapper" styles as well as using slang - but learned to give a little less description as styles began changing - it made it a little less blatantly obvious when she'd written the story........good writer, if just a little on the "religious" side for some people. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: hobish on January 24, 2012, 01:15:27 PM

Way to go, lellah!

 :) I love a good update where etiquette prevails.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: MissRose on January 25, 2012, 12:15:31 PM
Good update.  I'd rather have the religious leader of the worship space (church, temple, mosque, etc) address how people should dress for services either verbally in some way, in a bulletin and/or a website.  No one in the congregation should accost anyone to tell them they are not dressed correctly.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Hexteacher on January 25, 2012, 03:37:43 PM
All this has reminded me of a story I heard in my church. 

A few years ago a young woman of about 20 years of age came in wearing a long skirt, tie dyed shirt, several necklaces and barefoot.  The greeter/sidesperson at the time said good morning and passed her the usual notice sheet and hymnbook. 

A few minutes later he noticed that she had sat down on the carpet just in front of the foremost row of pews.  As you can probably guess from the description so far this is a fairly traditional Anglican church with oak pews, aisle, candles, lectern etc. 

The sidesperson, a man in his sixties and in a smart suit, then sat down next to her on the carpet for the entire service. (I hope I'm that flexible at 60).

The next week she brought along several of her friends.  Several of these friends later got baptised. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 26, 2012, 09:38:18 AM
All this has reminded me of a story I heard in my church. 

A few years ago a young woman of about 20 years of age came in wearing a long skirt, tie dyed shirt, several necklaces and barefoot.  The greeter/sidesperson at the time said good morning and passed her the usual notice sheet and hymnbook. 

A few minutes later he noticed that she had sat down on the carpet just in front of the foremost row of pews.  As you can probably guess from the description so far this is a fairly traditional Anglican church with oak pews, aisle, candles, lectern etc. 

The sidesperson, a man in his sixties and in a smart suit, then sat down next to her on the carpet for the entire service. (I hope I'm that flexible at 60).

The next week she brought along several of her friends.  Several of these friends later got baptised.

I am by no means religious, but that is beautiful.  I smiled at the support he offered someone not like him and how he was accepting of her differences.  Just beautiful.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Samantha on January 26, 2012, 10:25:48 AM
I attended church last weekend for the first time in ages. The website said jeans were welcome, so i attended in jeans and a nice shirt.

The pastor, elders, and deacons were all wearing jeans with church t-shirts, some had added long sleeves under the t-shirts. The pastor set off a bottle rocket during the sermon, and just laughed when he realized he had burnt a hole in his shirt. Talking to the neighbours the next day, I found out that the pastor has ziplined in from the back, and rappelled down from the ceiling during services in the past.

I think I'm going to like this church.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Ceallach on January 26, 2012, 06:50:25 PM
All this has reminded me of a story I heard in my church. 

A few years ago a young woman of about 20 years of age came in wearing a long skirt, tie dyed shirt, several necklaces and barefoot.  The greeter/sidesperson at the time said good morning and passed her the usual notice sheet and hymnbook. 

A few minutes later he noticed that she had sat down on the carpet just in front of the foremost row of pews.  As you can probably guess from the description so far this is a fairly traditional Anglican church with oak pews, aisle, candles, lectern etc. 

The sidesperson, a man in his sixties and in a smart suit, then sat down next to her on the carpet for the entire service. (I hope I'm that flexible at 60).

The next week she brought along several of her friends.  Several of these friends later got baptised.

I am by no means religious, but that is beautiful.  I smiled at the support he offered someone not like him and how he was accepting of her differences.  Just beautiful.

I agree, that is such a beautiful story about making somebody feel at ease rather than embarassing them by addressing their faux pas.  It's such a classy example of perfect etiquette.   
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 26, 2012, 06:52:43 PM
All this has reminded me of a story I heard in my church. 

A few years ago a young woman of about 20 years of age came in wearing a long skirt, tie dyed shirt, several necklaces and barefoot.  The greeter/sidesperson at the time said good morning and passed her the usual notice sheet and hymnbook. 

A few minutes later he noticed that she had sat down on the carpet just in front of the foremost row of pews.  As you can probably guess from the description so far this is a fairly traditional Anglican church with oak pews, aisle, candles, lectern etc. 

The sidesperson, a man in his sixties and in a smart suit, then sat down next to her on the carpet for the entire service. (I hope I'm that flexible at 60).

The next week she brought along several of her friends.  Several of these friends later got baptised.

I am by no means religious, but that is beautiful.  I smiled at the support he offered someone not like him and how he was accepting of her differences.  Just beautiful.

I agree, that is such a beautiful story about making somebody feel at ease rather than embarassing them by addressing their faux pas.  It's such a classy example of perfect etiquette.

Not just etiquette, humanity, too.  :)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Elfmama on January 27, 2012, 02:03:59 PM
ALL mainline Protestant denominations are deeply concerned about declining numbers, especially amongst yound adults. It is a matter of great focus and quite a bit of time, effort and money has been expended trying to solve this problem.
Catholic churches have the same problem, plus the decline in the number of priests. (Seems few young men nowadays are attracted to a lifetime of celibacy...)  Many parishes are sharing pastors with a neighboring one, or the diocese has chosen to close churches and combine the congregations.  DH's church has been without a resident priest for several years.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Captain Hastings on January 29, 2012, 02:17:59 PM
These stories remind me of something that happened to me several years ago, when I still attended church. I wore a black dress to services one day, nothing special about it except it was backless. But not even fully backless--there was a wide piece of cloth going across mid back, presumably to give the wearer better bra options.

Someone apparently took offense to this, but rather than confront me about it she went straight to the pastor and tattled.

He told her if she had a problem to talk to me personally, but she never did.  ::)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Bibi on February 07, 2012, 08:02:07 PM
I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: lellah on February 08, 2012, 08:55:18 AM
I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 08, 2012, 08:56:14 AM
I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?

No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: lellah on February 08, 2012, 09:04:04 AM
No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.

Oh, I shouldn't fire off posts online immediately after dealing with Creepy Workplace Harrasser.   ::)  I was partly out of line there, and I apologize.  Sorry, Bibi!

But I do think the final line's inappropriate and reflects an inappropriate attitude.  "Sexy" clothes are, as the discussion of this post, tremendously subjective and shouldn't be the basis of the way people deal with each other, especially in church.  I'm creeped out by the notion of the tenor section (or baritone or whatever) smiling and presumably staring at a comely young woman.  I don't think that's unreasonable.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 08, 2012, 09:23:58 AM
No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.

Oh, I shouldn't fire off posts online immediately after dealing with Creepy Workplace Harrasser.   ::)  I was partly out of line there, and I apologize.  Sorry, Bibi!

But I do think the final line's inappropriate and reflects an inappropriate attitude.  "Sexy" clothes are, as the discussion of this post, tremendously subjective and shouldn't be the basis of the way people deal with each other, especially in church.  I'm creeped out by the notion of the tenor section (or baritone or whatever) smiling and presumably staring at a comely young woman.  I don't think that's unreasonable.

I guess it's not totally unreasonable, but it's what happens, and to pretend it doesn't happen doesn't do anyone any good (but that doesn't make it right by any means...)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Oh Joy on February 08, 2012, 09:40:49 AM
I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?

No, and I'm not really sure how you arrived there.  His point was how distracting such clothes can be and that such a distraction can really detract from the sermon.  The last sentence, I believe, was to put a little humor into the story.

POD
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: #borecore on February 08, 2012, 09:46:35 AM
I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

Is the takeaway here "wear clothes that men will ogle?"  Seriously?

That's what I got from it, too. I find admitting to behaving lewdly lewd in itself, and think that people should know better than to admit to such behavior.

An outfit I wear that strikes your fancy is not an invitation to treat me differently from anyone else.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: gramma dishes on February 08, 2012, 10:10:06 AM
Baloney.  The woman dressed that way quite intentionally.  She sat in the front row quite intentionally.  She did it precisely to get the kind of reaction she got.

To now "blame" the male sections of the choir for noticing is not realistic.  She got the exact reaction she was seeking.  If Bibi had pretended that no one noticed, or that all of them were able to just look away and ignore it for the duration of the service, he'd have been lying. 

I know he meant that last line as a joke.  And it was.  But it's also true life.  I think far more highly of him for admitting that he and the other men were distracted than I would if he played all 'holier than thou' and had vehemently denied that it was ... well, at the very least, entertaining.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: NyaChan on February 08, 2012, 10:14:59 AM
Guys,  I don't think a debate on the woman's skirt and whether men should admit noticing is going to go anywhere good - why don't we just go back to the main topic and let this one go? 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Oh Joy on February 08, 2012, 10:45:19 AM
Guys,  I don't think a debate on the woman's skirt and whether men should admit noticing is going to go anywhere good - why don't we just go back to the main topic and let this one go?

Good point. 

I think the takeaway is the reminder to be aware of the vantage point of others.  I've often wished lifeguards - male and female, of all ages and sizes - received a bit more guidance from their employers to sit remembering the eyelevel of passersby.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Calypso on February 08, 2012, 05:03:05 PM
I attended church last weekend for the first time in ages. The website said jeans were welcome, so i attended in jeans and a nice shirt.

The pastor, elders, and deacons were all wearing jeans with church t-shirts, some had added long sleeves under the t-shirts. The pastor set off a bottle rocket during the sermon, and just laughed when he realized he had burnt a hole in his shirt. Talking to the neighbours the next day, I found out that the pastor has ziplined in from the back, and rappelled down from the ceiling during services in the past.

I think I'm going to like this church.

Holy pyrotechnics, Batman!  ;D 8)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: violinp on February 09, 2012, 12:17:18 AM
I attended church last weekend for the first time in ages. The website said jeans were welcome, so i attended in jeans and a nice shirt.

The pastor, elders, and deacons were all wearing jeans with church t-shirts, some had added long sleeves under the t-shirts. The pastor set off a bottle rocket during the sermon, and just laughed when he realized he had burnt a hole in his shirt. Talking to the neighbours the next day, I found out that the pastor has ziplined in from the back, and rappelled down from the ceiling during services in the past.

I think I'm going to like this church.

Holy pyrotechnics, Batman!  ;D 8)

How big is the building? It'd have to be insanely big. The only time I could see that happening is when the youth of my denomination have a convention in a stadium.

Also, that is totally awesome.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: MrTango on February 09, 2012, 08:59:36 AM
I sing in the choir at my church.  We face the congregation.  Sometimes at heavily attended services or baptisms the front row is occupied. When it is we are sometimes counting the lights in the ceiling or forgetting to sing at all.  One woman wore a black mini-skirt to a baptism that is sometimes remarked on to this day.  "Remember that woman in the front row?" is all it takes.  So, think about what you wear.  Most anything is OK because we want you in church.  Anyone who carps about appropriate clothes isn't paying attention to Jesus' example.  He wants us there and is glad we are. But, that skirt was distracting, I admit it. And, the lady's figure was why such skirts were invented.  We men were all smiles at the recessional.

I'm also in the choir at my church.  Our choir area faces directly into the congregation, so the sopranos (who occupy the front row) need to be very careful to wear either pants or long enough skirts to avoid flashing the congregation.

There was the one unfortunate time where I had to ask my wife to take the cantor aside and let her know that it's probably not a good idea to wear white pants with a pair of purple & pink polka-dotted panties.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Samantha on February 13, 2012, 07:47:56 PM
How big is the building? It'd have to be insanely big. The only time I could see that happening is when the youth of my denomination have a convention in a stadium.

Also, that is totally awesome.

It's a pretty good sized building. When not being used for services, the main room is the church gym, with a full-size basketball court. There is another room that is used for a video cast of the sermon, plus two weight rooms (one in a "curves" style setup).

Yesterday, the pastor came in wearing a BUNCH of bubble wrap. He kept stepping on it. :)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: diesel_darlin on February 13, 2012, 07:49:47 PM
I dearly love my church, but I would seriously consider switching to Samanthas church if I happened to be nearby. ;D
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Thipu1 on February 14, 2012, 09:18:13 AM
Appropriate clothing for church is very subjective. 

I was born and raised a Catholic and appropriate dress depended heavily on which Mass you attended.  When I was a child, we usually attended the 7 am mass.  Back in those days, you had to fast from Midnight if you wanted to receive communion.  An early Mass made things easier because it was short.   Go to Mass, receive communion and stop off at the bakery on the way home for something from the bakery for breakfast.  The whole rigmarole took about an hour. 

People at the early Mass were usually people who had to work on Sunday.  Hospital personnel, policemen and other workers regularly showed up in uniforms or work pants and shirts. 

Later in the morning, things got more complicated.  Ten o'clock Mass could be quite dressy and last a long time with singing, incense and a complex sermon. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: camlan on February 14, 2012, 10:07:40 AM
Appropriate clothing for church is very subjective. 

I was born and raised a Catholic and appropriate dress depended heavily on which Mass you attended.  When I was a child, we usually attended the 7 am mass.  Back in those days, you had to fast from Midnight if you wanted to receive communion.  An early Mass made things easier because it was short.   Go to Mass, receive communion and stop off at the bakery on the way home for something from the bakery for breakfast.  The whole rigmarole took about an hour. 

People at the early Mass were usually people who had to work on Sunday.  Hospital personnel, policemen and other workers regularly showed up in uniforms or work pants and shirts. 

Later in the morning, things got more complicated.  Ten o'clock Mass could be quite dressy and last a long time with singing, incense and a complex sermon.

To add to that, back in the 1960s, I remember some Catholic churches in New Hampshire would have a "skiers' Mass" in the winter. You could wear your ski clothes to early Mass and then head right out on to the slopes. At all other Masses, you'd be expected to dress appropriately for Sunday Mass, even if you were on vacation. I can remember the hassle of going to visit my grandparents for a week and having to pack a Sunday Mass outfit, which always took up space in my suitcase that I'd rather fill with books.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: violinp on February 14, 2012, 02:59:47 PM
Appropriate clothing for church is very subjective. 

I was born and raised a Catholic and appropriate dress depended heavily on which Mass you attended.  When I was a child, we usually attended the 7 am mass.  Back in those days, you had to fast from Midnight if you wanted to receive communion.  An early Mass made things easier because it was short.   Go to Mass, receive communion and stop off at the bakery on the way home for something from the bakery for breakfast.  The whole rigmarole took about an hour. 

People at the early Mass were usually people who had to work on Sunday.  Hospital personnel, policemen and other workers regularly showed up in uniforms or work pants and shirts. 

Later in the morning, things got more complicated.  Ten o'clock Mass could be quite dressy and last a long time with singing, incense and a complex sermon.

To add to that, back in the 1960s, I remember some Catholic churches in New Hampshire would have a "skiers' Mass" in the winter. You could wear your ski clothes to early Mass and then head right out on to the slopes. At all other Masses, you'd be expected to dress appropriately for Sunday Mass, even if you were on vacation. I can remember the hassle of going to visit my grandparents for a week and having to pack a Sunday Mass outfit, which always took up space in my suitcase that I'd rather fill with books.

When my dad was a kid in the 60's, his neighbor friends went to church in their pajamas, at the behest of their pastor, because he'd rather have them in the pew and underdressed than not there at all.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Thipu1 on February 18, 2012, 02:06:38 PM
When my uncle was a young priest in the late 1940s and early 1950s,  he was assigned to offer the 'Printer's Mass' in lower Manhattan.  This took place at about 4 am. 

On Saturday night, the printers were working their heads off to get out the Sunday papers.  Most of the workers were Irish or Italian and were Catholic.  It would be cruel to send them home only to wake up a few hours later and attend mass in their home parishes with their wives and children.  The 'Printer's Mass' took care of that.

You can imagine what men coming off from getting out the Sunday papers would look like.  Some would have ink on them.  All would be sweaty and very tired.  The Mass was simple, the sermon was very short and the guys could go home for a good, long Sunday sleep. 

Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: greencat on March 06, 2012, 03:56:52 AM
I have to ask - did she REALLY refer to your pants as dungarees?
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 07, 2012, 08:59:58 AM
I remember when I was a little girl, the only acceptable thing to wear to church, in my parent's eyes anyway, was a dress or a skirt.  And I was a little girl in the 80's so it wasn't that long ago, either.   They relaxed and I eventually was allowed to wear a business casual look (dress pants and blouse) to church.  I was surprised when I went to a campus Mass with a friend in college and she wore jeans.  She shrugged and sure enough the priest didn't care when she talked to him at the end of Mass about other things!

Other than a broomstick skirt now and then (which I do find to be comfy) I wear jeans to church myself. :)  I find it's a lot easier to pay attention to what's going on and what's being said when I'm not focusing on how uncomfortable I am.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: jaxsue on March 18, 2012, 11:41:52 AM
BG: My dad was a preacher and my mom the pianist/organist (of course, I believe there is some unwritten law somewhere) of a very conservative fundamentalist Baptist church. What passed for decent clothing - especially for women - was very strict. FF to now: I haven't attended church for several years. I love my lazy Sundays!

Last year I was visiting my mom to help her prepare for a move. Her church was having a farewell party for her (she'd attended for over 20 yrs). I mentioned I only had blue jeans with me, and she replied without skipping a beat: "Then it's a shame you'll miss my party."  :o  I wasn't angry; in fact, I had to hold back the urge to laugh. Wearing jeans in mom's church - even on a Saturday afternoon when there's nothing going on - is considered a sin.

All this to say that I'm sorry you're getting the 3rd degree for your clothing choice, OP. This older lady is a busy-body and should concentrate on other things besides your wardrobe.  :P
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: jaxsue on March 18, 2012, 11:43:06 AM
You should send her to our church when we have pajama day. Bet she wouldn't ever complain again.  :)

I wish I'd attended your church instead of mine!  :)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: jaxsue on March 18, 2012, 11:43:50 AM
Alas, she just has a notion that, as an elderly person, she's entitled to receive respect while giving none.   

Perhaps it's time for you to disabuse her of that notion!   ;)

I second that!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: jaxsue on March 18, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
At a mosque/masjid it is considered respectful to wear very modest dress (men & women) and cover one's hair (mostly for women, though men do wear prayer caps).  One time a woman in her 20s who was new to the community came to our masjid for the first time and did not have her hair covered.  An elderly man (no one knew who he was) went and loudly told her that her hair should be covered and doesn't she know any better than to be so disrespectful.  The poor woman turned around and walked out.  Luckily (and this is what I loved about our community) two nearby men who heard immediately pulled him aside and explained to him in no uncertain tone that it was completely inappropriate for him to approach the girl at all let alone chastise her about her clothing.  Meanwhile a nearby couple (young couple, used to babysit for their kiddos) went outside and apologized to the girl for that man's behavior, and said they understood if she felt uncomfortable, but if she was ok, would she please give the place another chance.  She ended up going home that night but did come back later without incident.  Never saw that man again...naturally the community was devastated  ::)

That's an awesome story. A win for the good guys!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: RiverSong on May 02, 2012, 02:51:11 PM
BG: My dad was a preacher and my mom the pianist/organist (of course, I believe there is some unwritten law somewhere) of a very conservative fundamentalist Baptist church.

Are we sisters?! My mother is the church pianist and my dad is the preacher of their Baptist church. Growing up it was always skirts and blouses, even at school. I love the church I go to now. They don't care if you wear jeans or dressy and the pastors are awesome  8)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Giggity on May 02, 2012, 03:58:53 PM
Last Sunday I was wearing a big, woolly turtleneck sweater with jeans and boots because it was especially cold out.  On her way up to receive Holy Communion she bent over and said not-at-all quietly to me in a very quiet sanctuary "I don't care for the dungarees but at least you've covered your bosoms for once."   I ignored her.

I don't know if I'd have been able to keep from asking, in an outdoor voice, "What's a dungaree? Is that some kind of sea creature? I might like one if I met it."
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: 25wishes on May 03, 2012, 07:41:39 AM
Appropriate clothing for church is very subjective. 

I was born and raised a Catholic and appropriate dress depended heavily on which Mass you attended.  When I was a child, we usually attended the 7 am mass.  Back in those days, you had to fast from Midnight if you wanted to receive communion.  An early Mass made things easier because it was short.   Go to Mass, receive communion and stop off at the bakery on the way home for something from the bakery for breakfast.  The whole rigmarole took about an hour. 

People at the early Mass were usually people who had to work on Sunday.  Hospital personnel, policemen and other workers regularly showed up in uniforms or work pants and shirts. 

Later in the morning, things got more complicated.  Ten o'clock Mass could be quite dressy and last a long time with singing, incense and a complex sermon.

I also went to a Catholic church when younger (1960's) and remember seeing an older woman who looked like she was wearing a robe and nightgown. My mom explained she was probably "not all there". I don't believe anyone ever criticized her for her clothes.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 03, 2012, 08:01:50 AM
The last two times I've been to mass, I saw two females, one an adult and one a young girl, wearing what appeared to be lace veils over their hair.  Now I know this was done a long time ago and that it was unacceptable for a woman to go to mass with her hair uncovered.   

When I was confirmed, my sponsor (an aunt) gave me a book with several short stories about being a young Catholic girl.  In one of them a girl forgot her veil and had to pin a doily to her head.  Well I'd never actually seen anyone do this in modern times so this kinda surprised me!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on May 03, 2012, 08:08:25 AM
I haven't seen it too often in my church but I have heard of at churches nearby.

The concept doesn't bother me. but sometimes I get caught staring and i need to explain I was looking at the intricate stitching ( all handmade )

Same with the pretty head scarves worn by Muslims.

Gosh I love that Pretty materials and intricate stitching.

( I could wear a headscarf where I am, but I choose not to)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: RebeccainGA on May 03, 2012, 10:25:48 AM
I have to ask - did she REALLY refer to your pants as dungarees?

LOL - my DP, who is well under 65, calls them that when she's around her mother. At home, they are jeans, but when we're at Momma's house, they are always dungarees.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: camlan on May 06, 2012, 09:11:25 AM
The last two times I've been to mass, I saw two females, one an adult and one a young girl, wearing what appeared to be lace veils over their hair.  Now I know this was done a long time ago and that it was unacceptable for a woman to go to mass with her hair uncovered.   

When I was confirmed, my sponsor (an aunt) gave me a book with several short stories about being a young Catholic girl.  In one of them a girl forgot her veil and had to pin a doily to her head.  Well I'd never actually seen anyone do this in modern times so this kinda surprised me!

I've seen the lace head scarves at the Catholic church in my town on occasion. Based on the very modest clothing that the women were wearing, I'm guessing that they are ultra-conservative Catholics.

There were lace head covers back in the 1960s that looked just like doilies--small, round circles of lace that were easy to stash in a pocket or handbag and pull out if you were going to go to church.

I can remember women using cloth handkerchiefs or even tissues as emergency headgear at Mass. Not very often, but you did see this on occasion. As styles changed and women weren't wearing hats every time they left the house, it would get harder and harder to remember to wear a hat for church.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: ShanghaiJill on May 06, 2012, 10:27:11 AM
The last two times I've been to mass, I saw two females, one an adult and one a young girl, wearing what appeared to be lace veils over their hair.  Now I know this was done a long time ago and that it was unacceptable for a woman to go to mass with her hair uncovered.   

When I was confirmed, my sponsor (an aunt) gave me a book with several short stories about being a young Catholic girl.  In one of them a girl forgot her veil and had to pin a doily to her head.  Well I'd never actually seen anyone do this in modern times so this kinda surprised me!

There were actually head coverings called chapel caps and they greatly resembled doilies.  I've never seen any other than white.

http://www.madonnashopsonline.com/images/1288331685300227592972.jpeg

If you were particularly unprepared, you could use kleenex and a bobbie pin.   Just gather it in the middle, lay it flat on your head and pin it down.

As for the OP, Bosom Buddy Lady sounds like she is bullying you.  If not for the outfits, than for something else.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: violinp on May 06, 2012, 01:32:29 PM
The last two times I've been to mass, I saw two females, one an adult and one a young girl, wearing what appeared to be lace veils over their hair.  Now I know this was done a long time ago and that it was unacceptable for a woman to go to mass with her hair uncovered.   

When I was confirmed, my sponsor (an aunt) gave me a book with several short stories about being a young Catholic girl.  In one of them a girl forgot her veil and had to pin a doily to her head.  Well I'd never actually seen anyone do this in modern times so this kinda surprised me!

There were actually head coverings called chapel caps and they greatly resembled doilies.  I've never seen any other than white.

http://www.madonnashopsonline.com/images/1288331685300227592972.jpeg

If you were particularly unprepared, you could use kleenex and a bobbie pin.   Just gather it in the middle, lay it flat on your head and pin it down.

As for the OP, Bosom Buddy Lady sounds like she is bullying you.  If not for the outfits, than for something else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by the rules, unmarried women wore the white veils, and married women wore black. Now, of course, most don't wear even a hat, let alone a veil, but that's what I was told about the veil rules.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: MissRose on May 07, 2012, 02:05:54 PM
The last two times I've been to mass, I saw two females, one an adult and one a young girl, wearing what appeared to be lace veils over their hair.  Now I know this was done a long time ago and that it was unacceptable for a woman to go to mass with her hair uncovered.   

When I was confirmed, my sponsor (an aunt) gave me a book with several short stories about being a young Catholic girl.  In one of them a girl forgot her veil and had to pin a doily to her head.  Well I'd never actually seen anyone do this in modern times so this kinda surprised me!

There were actually head coverings called chapel caps and they greatly resembled doilies.  I've never seen any other than white.

http://www.madonnashopsonline.com/images/1288331685300227592972.jpeg

If you were particularly unprepared, you could use kleenex and a bobbie pin.   Just gather it in the middle, lay it flat on your head and pin it down.

As for the OP, Bosom Buddy Lady sounds like she is bullying you.  If not for the outfits, than for something else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by the rules, unmarried women wore the white veils, and married women wore black. Now, of course, most don't wear even a hat, let alone a veil, but that's what I was told about the veil rules.

I am Catholic, but not ultra conservative but cover my head for Mass anyways.  The lace veils are often referred to as mantillas which were made popular in the 1960's by Jackie Kennedy.  These days, there are no hard set rules on the color choice based on your marital status compared to the past where light colors were more for single women/girls, black for married women & widows plus funerals.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Bottlecaps on May 09, 2012, 12:49:10 AM
A couple of incidents similar to this one are what "scared" me away from going to church with my mother. I was sixteen the one and only time I ever went to church with her, and I was not impressed with the gossip and lack of respect the members had for others.( I also wasn't impressed with their need to propagate their political and social beliefs on others via scare tactics, but that's a whole other story.) After we came home, I told my mother that I would not be going back to church with her and explained my reasoning. A couple of years later, she stopped going to that church as well, presumably because she (along with the rest of our family, whom these people in my mom's congregation didn't even know) became the topic of the gossip.

OK, I got sidetracked there. Anyway, I think in a case like this, you have to be more direct than the old stand-by of, "How kind of you to take an interest." Just politely but firmly let her know that your choices for clothing are appropriate for church, that you haven't had any complaints from any other members of the congregation, and that the topic is no longer up for discussion. I also agree with others' suggestions to take up the matter with your pastor - I really don't think any leader of a church wants to see well-meaning and good-hearted potential members scared away by one member who feels the need to make her views known in an all-too-blunt (and rude) manner.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Cami on May 09, 2012, 09:00:45 AM
To my earlier suggestion that you discuss this problem with the pastor, I will add a comeback for the next time you deal with this busybody.

"How interesting that you are paying so much attention to my bosoms."
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Jocelyn on June 04, 2012, 04:17:02 PM
I think the takeaway is the reminder to be aware of the vantage point of others. 

Absolutely. My mother had a multileveled classroom, where each row of desks were on a different riser, during the late 1960s and early 1970s, in the days of the miniskirt before females were allowed to wear pants to school. This meant that the students in the top row were seated at about my mother's eye level. She took to assigning seats, with the girls on the lower 2 rows and the boys on the upper two rows. ::)

There was another teacher in that school who wore low blouses, and would lean on her podium and say, 'Now, look here, class!' And they did. >:D

Once a friend took a picture of me and a friend at a SCA event, demoing weaving. It brought home the need to wear a modest chemise when others will be standing above you, watching you. ;) I was decently covered, but my friend..well, you could see underboobage.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Jocelyn on June 04, 2012, 04:27:57 PM
At a former church, I signed up for being an usher. During my training, I was told that I must never, ever seat a visitor in a certain pew in the side chapel, because that was the pastor's mother's preferred seat.  She would tell people that it was her pew, she was the pastor's mother, and they had to get out of it. Everyone in the congregation knew that Mama's mind was going, so no one made an issue of it, and the ushers just seated people in other pews.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: NotTheNarcissist on June 04, 2012, 04:44:25 PM
I know I'm late to this party but chiming in to say I'm so grateful I can wear jeans & a t- shirt to church & no one cares. Some wear suits & some wear shorts to my church - we get everything in between & I am soooo grateful! Pettiness over my clothing would keep me out of church. I am sooooo grateful for freedom.

ETA to add that I ride a motorcycle to church so I would like to know if this lady would want me to wear a dress on my motorcycle and show my bloomers off? or stick with the jeans? Hmm, tough call. I don't mean to make fun of her - it's just that people don't think about what they are saying sometimes.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Harriet Jones on June 07, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
I know I'm late to this party but chiming in to say I'm so grateful I can wear jeans & a t- shirt to church & no one cares. Some wear suits & some wear shorts to my church - we get everything in between & I am soooo grateful! Pettiness over my clothing would keep me out of church. I am sooooo grateful for freedom.

ETA to add that I ride a motorcycle to church so I would like to know if this lady would want me to wear a dress on my motorcycle and show my bloomers off? or stick with the jeans? Hmm, tough call. I don't mean to make fun of her - it's just that people don't think about what they are saying sometimes.

No, no, you need to hang a garment bag on your motorcycle so that you can change when you get there.  ::)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: mechtilde on June 07, 2012, 01:07:21 PM
I know I'm late to this party but chiming in to say I'm so grateful I can wear jeans & a t- shirt to church & no one cares. Some wear suits & some wear shorts to my church - we get everything in between & I am soooo grateful! Pettiness over my clothing would keep me out of church. I am sooooo grateful for freedom.

ETA to add that I ride a motorcycle to church so I would like to know if this lady would want me to wear a dress on my motorcycle and show my bloomers off? or stick with the jeans? Hmm, tough call. I don't mean to make fun of her - it's just that people don't think about what they are saying sometimes.

Well at least these days people are more safety conscious and don't go tearing aroud narrow country lanes wearing a suit, clerical collar, bowler hat and spats like my Grandpa used to!
No, no, you need to hang a garment bag on your motorcycle so that you can change when you get there.  ::)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on June 07, 2012, 01:34:13 PM
A friend of my aunt's met her hubby on a bike trip (I think it was Bike Virginia) and when they got married, the friend wore white biker shorts under her wedding dress and instead of taking a limo to the reception, the bride and groom boarded a tandem bike, she hitched up her skirt, and they pedaled off. :) I didn't see it myself but when I heard of it, I thought it was pretty funny. :)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Lynnv on June 07, 2012, 02:13:32 PM
I know I'm late to this party but chiming in to say I'm so grateful I can wear jeans & a t- shirt to church & no one cares. Some wear suits & some wear shorts to my church - we get everything in between & I am soooo grateful! Pettiness over my clothing would keep me out of church. I am sooooo grateful for freedom.

ETA to add that I ride a motorcycle to church so I would like to know if this lady would want me to wear a dress on my motorcycle and show my bloomers off? or stick with the jeans? Hmm, tough call. I don't mean to make fun of her - it's just that people don't think about what they are saying sometimes.

No, no, you need to hang a garment bag on your motorcycle so that you can change when you get there.  ::)

There is a thought for Sunday mornings.  :>  I am also glad that my church is such that casual attire, up to and including whatever motorcycle gear is appropriate to the day, will (at most) get some of the old folks talking (the "Back in the day, I rode a Triumph......") and telling stories that never end about their motorcycle years.  I like those stories, so that doesn't bother me unless I am trying to get somewhere.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: AdakAK on June 07, 2012, 02:14:32 PM
I know I'm late to this party but chiming in to say I'm so grateful I can wear jeans & a t- shirt to church & no one cares. Some wear suits & some wear shorts to my church - we get everything in between & I am soooo grateful! Pettiness over my clothing would keep me out of church. I am sooooo grateful for freedom.

ETA to add that I ride a motorcycle to church so I would like to know if this lady would want me to wear a dress on my motorcycle and show my bloomers off? or stick with the jeans? Hmm, tough call. I don't mean to make fun of her - it's just that people don't think about what they are saying sometimes.

I'm Catholic and our Deacon rides a motorcycle to church.  :)  Our church is also a mix, jeans to suits.  The only thing I don't like is the very revealing clothing, especially when the girls would wear super short skirts/shorts and low cut tops to sing in the choir.  I know it's Texas, and it's hot outside.  These were the styles I saw around town too so I guess it was what was 'in'. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Gwywnnydd on June 08, 2012, 03:22:16 PM
I know I'm late to this party but chiming in to say I'm so grateful I can wear jeans & a t- shirt to church & no one cares. Some wear suits & some wear shorts to my church - we get everything in between & I am soooo grateful! Pettiness over my clothing would keep me out of church. I am sooooo grateful for freedom.

ETA to add that I ride a motorcycle to church so I would like to know if this lady would want me to wear a dress on my motorcycle and show my bloomers off? or stick with the jeans? Hmm, tough call. I don't mean to make fun of her - it's just that people don't think about what they are saying sometimes.

I have worn a dress under my riding suit...
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: MissRose on June 18, 2012, 07:22:17 AM

I'm Catholic and our Deacon rides a motorcycle to church.  :)  Our church is also a mix, jeans to suits.  The only thing I don't like is the very revealing clothing, especially when the girls would wear super short skirts/shorts and low cut tops to sing in the choir.  I know it's Texas, and it's hot outside.  These were the styles I saw around town too so I guess it was what was 'in'.

I'd much rather someone come to Mass wearing a plain shirt and decent fitting pair of clean blue jeans (or even a long pair of shorts that reach the knees) compared to the fashion parade I saw coming into Mass, in the Communion line and leaving Mass by females of various ages:

*strapless dresses or shirts
*spaghetti strapped dresses or shirts
*shorts that barely cover the bum, some of them appearing to be nearly skin tight
*tank tops
*cleavage exposure
*skirts or dresses that barely covered the bum

I thought most of them were dressed better for the beach, pool or the street corner compared to Mass.  At least I am glad my mother insisted on clothes that had to be neat, clean, decent and modest even if they were not super dressy at times.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Xandraea on June 18, 2012, 07:47:12 AM
I know I'm late to this party but chiming in to say I'm so grateful I can wear jeans & a t- shirt to church & no one cares. Some wear suits & some wear shorts to my church - we get everything in between & I am soooo grateful! Pettiness over my clothing would keep me out of church. I am sooooo grateful for freedom.

My church is like this, with a few dressing in "Sunday best" women in dresses, pearls and heels, men in suits, but most in slacks and polos, jeans and t-shirts, skirts/shorts and t-shirts.  The only thing that really draws my attention is revealing clothing (low-cut or barely-there tops, tiny skirts, short shorts) and/or extremes (super-fancy clothing or the occasional pajama'd teen).  Everyone is welcomed, however.

I've also sung in choirs and music teams for over a decade and, the music director at my home church and the one I attended for two years when I moved out of state both make a point of reminding us of appropriate dress for the platform, being no strapless/sleeveless/low-cut tops, skirts must be at least knee-length, and to remember the congregation is looking up at us, and as worship leaders we are not to draw attention to ourselves or be distracting.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: camlan on June 18, 2012, 07:52:02 AM

I'm Catholic and our Deacon rides a motorcycle to church.  :)  Our church is also a mix, jeans to suits.  The only thing I don't like is the very revealing clothing, especially when the girls would wear super short skirts/shorts and low cut tops to sing in the choir.  I know it's Texas, and it's hot outside.  These were the styles I saw around town too so I guess it was what was 'in'.

I'd much rather someone come to Mass wearing a plain shirt and decent fitting pair of clean blue jeans (or even a long pair of shorts that reach the knees) compared to the fashion parade I saw coming into Mass, in the Communion line and leaving Mass by females of various ages:

*strapless dresses or shirts
*spaghetti strapped dresses or shirts
*shorts that barely cover the bum, some of them appearing to be nearly skin tight
*tank tops
*cleavage exposure
*skirts or dresses that barely covered the bum

I thought most of them were dressed better for the beach, pool or the street corner compared to Mass.  At least I am glad my mother insisted on clothes that had to be neat, clean, decent and modest even if they were not super dressy at times.

My cousin is a priest. At his church, during Communion, the priest stands one step up from the people receiving Communion. My poor, dear cousin says he gets more than an eyeful every Mass, because of the low-cut tops and tube tops and strapless tops, which from his vantage point, he has a difficult time not looking down into.

But the pastor is afraid to address the subject, because he worries that instead of dressing properly for Mass, people will just stop coming.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: #borecore on June 18, 2012, 10:04:10 AM

I'm Catholic and our Deacon rides a motorcycle to church.  :)  Our church is also a mix, jeans to suits.  The only thing I don't like is the very revealing clothing, especially when the girls would wear super short skirts/shorts and low cut tops to sing in the choir.  I know it's Texas, and it's hot outside.  These were the styles I saw around town too so I guess it was what was 'in'.

I'd much rather someone come to Mass wearing a plain shirt and decent fitting pair of clean blue jeans (or even a long pair of shorts that reach the knees) compared to the fashion parade I saw coming into Mass, in the Communion line and leaving Mass by females of various ages:

*strapless dresses or shirts
*spaghetti strapped dresses or shirts
*shorts that barely cover the bum, some of them appearing to be nearly skin tight
*tank tops
*cleavage exposure
*skirts or dresses that barely covered the bum

I thought most of them were dressed better for the beach, pool or the street corner compared to Mass.  At least I am glad my mother insisted on clothes that had to be neat, clean, decent and modest even if they were not super dressy at times.

My cousin is a priest. At his church, during Communion, the priest stands one step up from the people receiving Communion. My poor, dear cousin says he gets more than an eyeful every Mass, because of the low-cut tops and tube tops and strapless tops, which from his vantage point, he has a difficult time not looking down into.

But the pastor is afraid to address the subject, because he worries that instead of dressing properly for Mass, people will just stop coming.

Why does he care?

I mean this seriously. If your goal is to minister to anyone and everyone, their wardrobe choice should make ZERO impact on this mission.

I have a particularly hard time understanding why spaghetti straps or tank tops, among the examples listed above, are a problem. They just are different fashion choices, and I'm pretty sure shoulder exposure isn't hurtful.

(I understand that people in Catholic churches are supposed to cover their shoulders. I just am completely befuddled by it.)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Tigger on June 18, 2012, 10:36:38 AM
I believe it's because the priest is getting an eyefull of bosom and could probably do without that distraction at mass.  In some Church's the Priest stands on a step which makes him higher than the person he is giving communion to.  Therefore he would get a birds eye view so to speak of cleavage. 

I get that fashion choices shouldn't matter but there's this little thing called respect.  That should matter. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: #borecore on June 18, 2012, 10:40:34 AM
Eh, I just don't think tank tops are disrespectful.

Or even distracting.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: gramma dishes on June 18, 2012, 10:41:28 AM
...    I get that fashion choices shouldn't matter but there's this little thing called respect.  That should matter.

That's exactly what my Mom used to say.  "You aren't going to a sleepover at your friend's house.  You're visiting God's house.  Dress respectfully!"
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Iris on June 18, 2012, 11:47:55 PM
Eh, I just don't think tank tops are disrespectful.

Or even distracting.

Most heterosexual guys I know would find a large expanse of exposed bosom distracting, even if it was only because they were thinking "Oh my goodness, mustn't look there!"

I have zero sexual interest in women and if someone in a low cut top knelt down in front of me and I then had to look down at her (which you would have to do to administer communion) I'm sure I would be distracted from whatever my train of thought was. I'd be thinking "Hmmm, I wonder if she knows I can see most of her bra. Should I let her know? Is that my place? I might ask ehell." or something of the kind.

I'm pretty relaxed about what people wear to church but in any situation you need to be aware of your position in relation to others. I bend over a lot in my professional life, so I don't wear lowcut tops to work for example.

In terms of disrespectful, however, I think that is between an individual and their particular deity.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on June 19, 2012, 06:32:44 AM
...    I get that fashion choices shouldn't matter but there's this little thing called respect.  That should matter.

That's exactly what my Mom used to say.  "You aren't going to a sleepover at your friend's house.  You're visiting God's house.  Dress respectfully!"

My church (Catholic) bulletin says "With the warm summer weather upon us, please remember that modesty is a gift we can give to God."  Thus far I haven't seen anyone dressed inappropriately.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: whatsanenigma on June 19, 2012, 07:31:30 AM
Quote
Most heterosexual guys I know would find a large expanse of exposed bosom distracting, even if it was only because they were thinking "Oh my goodness, mustn't look there!"
(snip for space)
In terms of disrespectful, however, I think that is between an individual and their particular deity.

I think this is especially disrespectful when you are dealing with a pastor of any kind, who really is supposed to be focusing on the religious ceremony, but there is also the element that catholic priests are "married to the church" and not supposed to be thinking that way at all, or even of protestant ministers who are married or in a committed relationship...and some versions of religion go so far as to say that even looking at a woman with lust is to "commit adultery in his heart".

Not that anyone giving communion would think this way on purpose but if even the smallest thought flashed through his mind, I would think it might be very guilt-inducing to someone like that. 

Overall, I don't think tank tops and etcetra are inherently disrespectful, but I do think people need to think very carefully about what they will put on display in different physical postions they might assume, such as when partaking of communion.  And when in doubt, I think people should cover up a bit.

Not that I would automatically condemn anyone who did not, or think they were deliberately upsetting the pastor on purpose, but I wish more people would think in more detail about this.

And on a slightly different note, I think another part of the problem is that so many women think that just because something is a skirt or dress, that makes it "better" for an occasion such as church than any type of pants or slacks.  But the reality is, as a PP mentioned I believe, that sometimes jeans or pants and modest shirts of some kind, are more in the line of what you want to communicate with your clothing in terms of not wanting to show random people "too much" of your body.

Sorry, rambling a bit this morning, it's time for coffee.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: dawbs on June 19, 2012, 08:38:44 AM
On the flip side of this, the considerations and forethought people here would like parishioners to take would only occur to someone who is 'churched'.
It behooves churches to  be gracious and understanding to guests and not assume that people who walk through the door would know that they're being watched from 'above' (the pulpit and a physical sense, nothing metaphysical here). 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: greencat on June 19, 2012, 02:13:59 PM
I'm an atheist and I still dress modestly when I have to go to a place of worship for some reason.  It's an important part of etiquette to be appropriately dressed for the occasion or venue. 
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Jocelyn on June 19, 2012, 09:06:46 PM
Eh, I just don't think tank tops are disrespectful.

Or even distracting.
Well, they can be. I've had students wear tops to class that when they sat down and I stood to lecture, I could see between their breasts and see the skin of their abdomens. Typically, the girls who dressed like that had breast implants, too. (yes, I know when a student is telling everyone about her new breasts, or she leaves for vacation with a minimal bustline and returns with a voluptuous one).  Ditto for seeing whale tail and tramp stamps when they sit in their low-cut pants.
Back when I was doing amateur theater, one of the things I was taught is to never, ever, do something that could  break the concentration of your fellow cast members.  At my church, communicants kneel so that their arms rest comfortably on the altar rail, which is about knee level for the pastor. I've served as communion assistant, so I know that quite a bit can show. As celebrant and assistant, we're supposed to make eye contact with the communicant as we give them the elements...it's not an option to stare off into the distance over their heads. Personally, I'm not hormonally inclined to appreciate the view, but I can see it might be very distracting for those who are.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Jocelyn on June 19, 2012, 09:14:31 PM
I'm an atheist and I still dress modestly when I have to go to a place of worship for some reason.  It's an important part of etiquette to be appropriately dressed for the occasion or venue.
If I were invited to the Governor's Mansion, I'd choose an outfit that showed I had respect for his office. How much more should a person want to do for the Lord of the Universe? (if they so believe)
Yes, there have been days where I've said, 'God, this is the best I can do today'. I'm sure He understands, but I'm not sure He approves. As He says, 'My ways are not your ways.' So I'll err on the side of caution.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: greencat on June 19, 2012, 09:39:53 PM
Err, I think you may have missed my point Jocelyn - which was that I DO NOT believe, but I still dress in an appropriate fashion when going to a place primarily intended for the conduct of religious worship ceremonies, of any kind, because it's the proper thing to do to follow the dress code.

I'm not sure the rest of your response was entirely appropriate?  The forum rules are pretty specific that discussions of religion like that are not germane to the forum.  This thread is about humans passing judgement on others, not anyone's specific or general higher powers doing so.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Iris on June 20, 2012, 02:08:08 AM
On the flip side of this, the considerations and forethought people here would like parishioners to take would only occur to someone who is 'churched'.
It behooves churches to  be gracious and understanding to guests and not assume that people who walk through the door would know that they're being watched from 'above' (the pulpit and a physical sense, nothing metaphysical here).

Of course, I would hope that it goes without saying that no-one expects people to psychically know what happens in a church service. I also hope that if people come week after week dressed in hotpants and a tank top they are nonetheless welcomed warmly - after all at least they are THERE ( which is better than me most Sundays).

My post was just addressing the idea that if you bend over in front of a person in a lowcut top they shouldn't or wouldn't be distracted. I don't think that's realistic in any situation really.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Xandraea on June 20, 2012, 09:22:20 AM
On the flip side of this, the considerations and forethought people here would like parishioners to take would only occur to someone who is 'churched'.
It behooves churches to  be gracious and understanding to guests and not assume that people who walk through the door would know that they're being watched from 'above' (the pulpit and a physical sense, nothing metaphysical here).

Of course, I would hope that it goes without saying that no-one expects people to psychically know what happens in a church service. I also hope that if people come week after week dressed in hotpants and a tank top they are nonetheless welcomed warmly - after all at least they are THERE ( which is better than me most Sundays).

My post was just addressing the idea that if you bend over in front of a person in a lowcut top they shouldn't or wouldn't be distracted. I don't think that's realistic in any situation really.

Taking this discussion out of the church for a moment, imagine a yoga studio, a (fifty-something?) overweight woman in a low-cut top whose abundant bosom reached nearly her waist while standing, revealing way more than anyone wants to see in public to begin with.  Now, imagine this woman, feet apart, in a forward bend.  Her bosom now reaches for the floor, giving the 13 yr old student behind her a full view of most of the woman's torso and bosom  (Kudos to the child for remaining silent and only expressing her disgust and embarrassment to me after class in the car.  She told me she had to keep her eyes tightly shut to avoid the view, and she didn't get the full benefit of the class because of the distraction).  Some might say "good for her" for showing up to class, even though she clearly did not equip a sports bra or even a bra that contained her at all (I believe she was in an old tank top with a built in "shelf bra", which is merely a bit of elastic around the middle, not made to support that much).  Much to the relief of the rest of the class, this woman didn't come back after that class, and if she had, dressed like that, the instructor would have had to find a discrete way to tell her about more appropriate attire.

I think this debate has less to do with the church and more to do with dressing appropriately for the occasion/venue.  I too, would much rather see someone in clean jeans and a t-shirt, than someone in a "dressy" dress that exposed any part of a body that would be covered by a swimsuit.  The angle of others' viewpoint would be a polite thing to consider as well.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Drawberry on October 08, 2012, 04:41:07 PM
I am of the strong opinion that other people's dress is not our business. If a man at church is so enthralled by a woman's breasts that is far from her problem and the man needs to deal with his inability to not ogle at the closest pair of enticing boobies like meat in a butcher shop. It does not matter how the other person is dressed, it's called self-control and we need to learn it. Someone else's body and what is covering it is not our business.

If the situation where one in which an individual was unawares of particular body parts possibly showing or being close there of it would be in the unsuspecting individuals best interests for someone to pull them aside and quietly let them know:

"Oh Francis I just wanted to let you know that your slacks where hanging low at the back when you knelt down and you might need a belt"

"Bianca I just wanted to let you know that your shirt got pulled down when you took your seat, you might need to adjust it'

 
Referring to your student's body with phrases like 'whale tail' and 'tramp stamp' is hurtful, offensive, and grossly inappropriate :\ You are not obligated to enjoy what you see but in a place titled 'etiquette hell' I feel it would be respectful to avoid addressing the general public with 'slut-shaming' monikers because you disapprove of their fashion choices.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Mental Magpie on October 08, 2012, 07:09:36 PM
I am of the strong opinion that other people's dress is not our business. If a man at church is so enthralled by a woman's breasts that is far from her problem and the man needs to deal with his inability to not ogle at the closest pair of enticing boobies like meat in a butcher shop. It does not matter how the other person is dressed, it's called self-control and we need to learn it. Someone else's body and what is covering it is not our business.

If the situation where one in which an individual was unawares of particular body parts possibly showing or being close there of it would be in the unsuspecting individuals best interests for someone to pull them aside and quietly let them know:

"Oh Francis I just wanted to let you know that your slacks where hanging low at the back when you knelt down and you might need a belt"

"Bianca I just wanted to let you know that your shirt got pulled down when you took your seat, you might need to adjust it'

 
Referring to your student's body with phrases like 'whale tail' and 'tramp stamp' is hurtful, offensive, and grossly inappropriate :\ You are not obligated to enjoy what you see but in a place titled 'etiquette hell' I feel it would be respectful to avoid addressing the general public with 'slut-shaming' monikers because you disapprove of their fashion choices.

While I agree that tramp stamp is a "slut shaming moniker", how on earth is whale tail?  It describes the shape of something showing...I'm being honest here, I don't see the connection.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Jones on October 09, 2012, 09:07:21 AM
I am of the strong opinion that other people's dress is not our business. If a man at church is so enthralled by a woman's breasts that is far from her problem and the man needs to deal with his inability to not ogle at the closest pair of enticing boobies like meat in a butcher shop. It does not matter how the other person is dressed, it's called self-control and we need to learn it. Someone else's body and what is covering it is not our business.

If the situation where one in which an individual was unawares of particular body parts possibly showing or being close there of it would be in the unsuspecting individuals best interests for someone to pull them aside and quietly let them know:

"Oh Francis I just wanted to let you know that your slacks where hanging low at the back when you knelt down and you might need a belt"

"Bianca I just wanted to let you know that your shirt got pulled down when you took your seat, you might need to adjust it'

 
Referring to your student's body with phrases like 'whale tail' and 'tramp stamp' is hurtful, offensive, and grossly inappropriate :\ You are not obligated to enjoy what you see but in a place titled 'etiquette hell' I feel it would be respectful to avoid addressing the general public with 'slut-shaming' monikers because you disapprove of their fashion choices.

While I agree that tramp stamp is a "slut shaming moniker", how on earth is whale tail?  It describes the shape of something showing...I'm being honest here, I don't see the connection.
I'm glad it's not just me who was wondering :) I've had both before, but the only thing "whale tale" did to me was make me feel fat.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Yvaine on October 09, 2012, 09:19:52 AM
I am of the strong opinion that other people's dress is not our business. If a man at church is so enthralled by a woman's breasts that is far from her problem and the man needs to deal with his inability to not ogle at the closest pair of enticing boobies like meat in a butcher shop. It does not matter how the other person is dressed, it's called self-control and we need to learn it. Someone else's body and what is covering it is not our business.

If the situation where one in which an individual was unawares of particular body parts possibly showing or being close there of it would be in the unsuspecting individuals best interests for someone to pull them aside and quietly let them know:

"Oh Francis I just wanted to let you know that your slacks where hanging low at the back when you knelt down and you might need a belt"

"Bianca I just wanted to let you know that your shirt got pulled down when you took your seat, you might need to adjust it'

 
Referring to your student's body with phrases like 'whale tail' and 'tramp stamp' is hurtful, offensive, and grossly inappropriate :\ You are not obligated to enjoy what you see but in a place titled 'etiquette hell' I feel it would be respectful to avoid addressing the general public with 'slut-shaming' monikers because you disapprove of their fashion choices.

While I agree that tramp stamp is a "slut shaming moniker", how on earth is whale tail?  It describes the shape of something showing...I'm being honest here, I don't see the connection.
I'm glad it's not just me who was wondering :) I've had both before, but the only thing "whale tale" did to me was make me feel fat.

It actually doesn't have anything to do with the size of the bum, though--it describes the shape of a style of underwear.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Minmom3 on October 09, 2012, 02:02:52 PM
A whale tail is what shows when a persons low rider jeans are riding Really Low, and their thong underpants are simultaneously riding high.  What shows then is a portion of the 'waist' band and the top-most portion of the piece that goes from the front waist band, through the crotch, and up the back to the waist band.  The two pieces of clothing do NOT work together very well, and the back of the pants are pulled down by the fabric of the legs pulling down when the person sits.  Since there is no leg fabric on the thong underwear, the thong sits where it was.  They can also ride up higher than they started when the wearer repeatedly sits and rises, sits and rises, and the thong works its way up the inside of the jeans, finally 'surfacing' and staying there until great garment adjustment is done.  Because the waist band is wider than the crotch piece, and tapered, and frequently sparkly and decorated in some way, and the piece coming up from below is very narrow, it does somewhat have an appearance or shape of a whale tail breaking the surface of the ocean.  Hence the name.  It's not meant to imply fatness at all, that I've ever heard, it's JUST the appearance of the thong above the edge of the jeans. 

When my girls were in Jr and Sr high, many of their classmates 'let' their underwear (only the thongs) ride up to show that they too were cool enough to wear thong underwear, as opposed to bikini underpants, or heaven forbid, granny panties!  They were STYLIN', guys, just too fab for WORDS...  Or, so they thought.  Now that MY girls are all in their 20's, while they all wear the thongs, they all work at NOT letting them show above their pants, and they think that letting them show, or making them show - looks cheap, and unladylike.  Thong underwear, as far as I've been told, derived from the G-strings that strippers wore, so they have, among some people, a taint of that profession about them.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Jones on October 09, 2012, 02:19:39 PM
I know what it is, I was just making the joke that the word "whale" in combination with the rear end implies "fat", so it did give me the unreasonable connotation "big butt."
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 09, 2012, 02:22:44 PM
I know what it is, I was just making the joke that the word "whale" in combination with the rear end implies "fat", so it did give me the unreasonable connotation "big butt."

And hence, why I would never be caught dead in a pair of Buffalo jeans that were uber popular about 20 years ago.  'With a butt this big, why on earth would I want to wear the word Buffalo across it?'   ;D
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: It's good to be Queen on October 16, 2012, 06:12:53 PM
At my church (a typical mainline protestant denomination) we like to say that we have a very strict dress code--  You must wear clothes!  (In other words, any clothing is acceptable, all are welcome!)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!,lilacropsey
Post by: LilacRosey on October 16, 2012, 10:39:53 PM
I love this! so useful! Thank you etiquettehel.com!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: magician5 on October 25, 2012, 04:06:38 AM
At my church (a typical mainline protestant denomination) we like to say that we have a very strict dress code--  You must wear clothes!  (In other words, any clothing is acceptable, all are welcome!)

I'm extremely offended - I belong to the naturist sect of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and we believe you'll never get to Spaghetti Heaven with clothes on!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: White Lotus on November 06, 2012, 05:43:52 PM
Buddhist temples do have a dress code. Some temples with a lot of tourist visitors, like that of the Emerald Buddha in Thailand, strictly enforce it. They pass out camp shirts and sarongs to all inappropriately dressed comers.  Cover the torso from the collarbone down, arms to the (more or less) elbow and legs to the (more or less) knee. No head coverings.  Other than that, clean and tidy is good. Many of us carry a lace or sheer jacket or shawl, or a long-sleeved cotton shirt to be worn as a jacket, in the car during warm months.

However, our sect's temples never turn anyone away because of attire.  We figure they'll figure it out soon enough.  This is both to prevent distractions -- that body builder in his tight tank tops was pretty darned distracting until another gym rat enlightened (pun intended) him -- and also focus our minds on the purpose of our attendance, which is Buddhist practice.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Auryn Grigori on October 11, 2013, 02:39:29 AM
I think you need to make her a (high-collared) t-shirt that says, "At least my bosoms are covered."

LOL! If I lived near the OP, I'd be tempted to show up in my Renaissance Festival outfit...(that is, LOTS of cleavage), point to the OP with her collar bones showing, and say "That's not an exposed bosom," and then point to myself and say, "THIS is an exposed bosom."

Be my friend! I think that I would do that. Or if I was the OP wearing a shirt that only exposed my collarbone, my response would be "My dear lady, I think you are mistaken. My bosom is down here. This is my collarbone." And I probably deserve a spot in E-Hell for that one.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Asharah on October 11, 2013, 11:58:15 AM
Buddhist temples do have a dress code. Some temples with a lot of tourist visitors, like that of the Emerald Buddha in Thailand, strictly enforce it. They pass out camp shirts and sarongs to all inappropriately dressed comers.  Cover the torso from the collarbone down, arms to the (more or less) elbow and legs to the (more or less) knee. No head coverings.  Other than that, clean and tidy is good. Many of us carry a lace or sheer jacket or shawl, or a long-sleeved cotton shirt to be worn as a jacket, in the car during warm months.

However, our sect's temples never turn anyone away because of attire.  We figure they'll figure it out soon enough.  This is both to prevent distractions -- that body builder in his tight tank tops was pretty darned distracting until another gym rat enlightened (pun intended) him -- and also focus our minds on the purpose of our attendance, which is Buddhist practice.
Saw that on "THE AMAZING RACE" a couple of times. In Season 7, one place in India handed out scarves so people could cover their head before entering. And in Season 9, one female racer was stopped at the gate of a temple in Thailand and given a shirt and long skirt to put over her tank top and shorts before entering.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: cwm on October 11, 2013, 12:14:21 PM
Buddhist temples do have a dress code. Some temples with a lot of tourist visitors, like that of the Emerald Buddha in Thailand, strictly enforce it. They pass out camp shirts and sarongs to all inappropriately dressed comers.  Cover the torso from the collarbone down, arms to the (more or less) elbow and legs to the (more or less) knee. No head coverings.  Other than that, clean and tidy is good. Many of us carry a lace or sheer jacket or shawl, or a long-sleeved cotton shirt to be worn as a jacket, in the car during warm months.

However, our sect's temples never turn anyone away because of attire.  We figure they'll figure it out soon enough.  This is both to prevent distractions -- that body builder in his tight tank tops was pretty darned distracting until another gym rat enlightened (pun intended) him -- and also focus our minds on the purpose of our attendance, which is Buddhist practice.
Saw that on "THE AMAZING RACE" a couple of times. In Season 7, one place in India handed out scarves so people could cover their head before entering. And in Season 9, one female racer was stopped at the gate of a temple in Thailand and given a shirt and long skirt to put over her tank top and shorts before entering.

I was in Italy during a huge Catholic festival. I can't remember what it was, but at each of the cathedrals we toured, if you didn't have clothing that would cover from approximately your collarbones down to your knees, you'd be offered a shawl or skirt to rent for a small fee. You'd give it back when you left and the nuns would wash them every night, but it let all the tourists still enjoy the history without disrupting the faithful there and managed to offset the laundry costs. (I think it was about the equivalent of a quarter to rent the shawl/wrap.)
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on October 11, 2013, 01:10:46 PM
I remember what my best friend said to me the first time I attended church with her. My whole family had only ever done church with the whole "Sunday best" view, and I hadn't ever been (well once as an infant), I didn't own "Sunday best", and my mother couldn't figure out what to put me in (I had to be about 12 or 13 at the time). So I asked my best friend to help me and she said "Just wear whatever, just make sure it's clean, what you wear to school would be fine", and I brought up the "Sunday best" to which she said "Look, God made you naked right? You really think He cares what outfit you wear? No, he doesn't. So no one else should either", that's still her stance. She wears jeans and flip flops to church without a second thought. After all, God doesn't care, why should you?

The church Partner and I occasionally attend has the "just wear clothes" policy. One day there was a young guy (late teens/early 20s) with a blue mohawk and decked in the traditional punk attire. And this older lady approaches him, dressed in a long skirt and button down blouse, she taps him on the shoulder and asks if he's here alone, when he says he is she says "Well, my husband is ill and couldn't make it today, would you mind sitting with me and keeping me company during the service today?" he smiled extended his arm and said "It'd be my greatest pleasure" and walked her to her seat and sat right next to her. Every time we've been since, he's sat right next to her. He's brought friends of his along and they sit on his other side. It's the coolest thing to see.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Xandraea on October 11, 2013, 04:57:59 PM
*snip*

The church Partner and I occasionally attend has the "just wear clothes" policy. One day there was a young guy (late teens/early 20s) with a blue mohawk and decked in the traditional punk attire. And this older lady approaches him, dressed in a long skirt and button down blouse, she taps him on the shoulder and asks if he's here alone, when he says he is she says "Well, my husband is ill and couldn't make it today, would you mind sitting with me and keeping me company during the service today?" he smiled extended his arm and said "It'd be my greatest pleasure" and walked her to her seat and sat right next to her. Every time we've been since, he's sat right next to her. He's brought friends of his along and they sit on his other side. It's the coolest thing to see.


If more people behaved like this (on both sides), the world would be a better place.  What a perfect demonstration of "Love your neighbor as yourself".  Bravo to both the older lady and the young man.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: kudeebee on October 11, 2013, 08:04:08 PM
*snip*

The church Partner and I occasionally attend has the "just wear clothes" policy. One day there was a young guy (late teens/early 20s) with a blue mohawk and decked in the traditional punk attire. And this older lady approaches him, dressed in a long skirt and button down blouse, she taps him on the shoulder and asks if he's here alone, when he says he is she says "Well, my husband is ill and couldn't make it today, would you mind sitting with me and keeping me company during the service today?" he smiled extended his arm and said "It'd be my greatest pleasure" and walked her to her seat and sat right next to her. Every time we've been since, he's sat right next to her. He's brought friends of his along and they sit on his other side. It's the coolest thing to see.


If more people behaved like this (on both sides), the world would be a better place.  What a perfect demonstration of "Love your neighbor as yourself".  Bravo to both the older lady and the young man.

Where's the like button?  What a great example this woman is for the rest of us!
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: Hillia on October 11, 2013, 08:26:14 PM
When I was about 12, I got a new sundress that I loved.  It had a halter neck with straps that tied at the back of the neck, and an open back.  Absolutely not appropriate for our fairly conservative Catholic church in 1974.  I knew my mother wouldn't let me wear it to church, so I hid in my room til the absolute last minute to jump in the car - too late to change.  My mother was furious, but all she had time to do was grab a sweater out of the hall closet and make me wear it over my dress.  In South Texas, in August, in a non-air conditioned church.

Last time I tried that little trick.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: MissRose on December 04, 2013, 09:11:42 AM
My mother's (and mine) now, we have a pastoral administrator who does everything but say Mass & stuff reserved for the priest that comes in on the weekend etc. She has not hesitated to tell anyone who serves as an  usher, reader, or other Mass minister type that they are not dressed modestly, decently, and appropriately that they cannot serve if not dressed a certain way.  As I do a serving role sometimes, I ensure no matter if its my weekend to serve or not, I am dressed accordingly, and modifying my wardrobe choices as needed.

I've been to a few churches where those in serving roles mainly in summer time were wearing items better for the beach or the pool.  I've not been back to those places since.

My aunt's church where her and her husband both serve ask that people wear clothing, shoes and accessories that are either business casual or business office/professional dress code that is also decent & modest even if its not their weekend to help.  So if they are needed to fill in, there is no issue with their clothing.
Title: Re: My clothes are church appropriate!
Post by: mstigerlily on December 30, 2013, 09:52:03 AM
"Look, God made you naked right? You really think He cares what outfit you wear? No, he doesn't."
Love this!!!

One day there was a young guy (late teens/early 20s) with a blue mohawk and decked in the traditional punk attire. And this older lady approaches him, dressed in a long skirt and button down blouse, she taps him on the shoulder and asks if he's here alone, when he says he is she says "Well, my husband is ill and couldn't make it today, would you mind sitting with me and keeping me company during the service today?" he smiled extended his arm and said "It'd be my greatest pleasure" and walked her to her seat and sat right next to her. Every time we've been since, he's sat right next to her. He's brought friends of his along and they sit on his other side. It's the coolest thing to see.
I want to hug this old lady.
I imagine if she'd have gone up to mohawk guy and reamed him out, he'd probably have never come back. By being kind and unjudgemental she not only made him comfortable enough to come back but also to bring his friends. Little acts of kindness like this just make the world so much a better place.