Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Holidays => Topic started by: darkprincess on February 15, 2012, 03:33:46 PM

Title: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: darkprincess on February 15, 2012, 03:33:46 PM
this is sort of a rant but I wonder if there was a way to deal with it better.
My Dear Husband decided to make us a wonderful Valentines day dinner at home of steak and lobster. The plan was dinner while curled up on the couch watching our favorite movie. Our 8 year old daughter could cuddle with us as a family and we would put her to bed early. She had a fever that morning and we figured she would fall asleep early anyway.
Before I came home, while husband was marinating the steak and prepping the lobster one of his friends dropped by unannounced. He is a close friend and does this at least once a week and we are fine with him helping himself to a beer/wine/hard drink when he wants it. When dinner plans work out we have been known to invite him to join us during these drop-ins. That evening he immediately helped himself to a very stiff drink.
Somehow he was oblivious to the fact that it was Valentines day, that we were having a special dinner, and that company may not be welcome. Husband didn't notice how stiff the drink was before it was too late and we would not be comfortable letting him drive home immediately. Once he figured it out he cut him off all alcohol so he wouldn't be there even later.
When I got home and figured out the situation I was very annoyed. I thought about putting him in my car and driving him home, but sick daughter wanted to cuddle and I recognized the situation was doomed.
Sick daughter wanted soup so we ended up giving friend her share of the steak and lobster. I spent the evening cuddled with her and cartoons. Husband stayed in kitchen with friend discussing Star Trek until we felt comfortable letting him drive home. I have to say husband was great because he kept friend away from me so I wouldn't be encouraged to say nasty things. I admit I did want to "thank him for sharing our romantic Valentine's evening." but I was able to hold my tongue.
Any ideas of what to do in future situations, maybe when we don't have a sick daughter, or maybe we just need to buy a locking liquor cabinet.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Bibliophile on February 15, 2012, 03:37:29 PM
Drive him home - or tell your husband to not serve him a drink and send him back out the door on Valentine's Day.  Being polite doesn't mean you need to entertain anyone who just drops by.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: NyaChan on February 15, 2012, 03:38:06 PM
I put this one on your husband.  When your friend dropped in, he should have said, "Hey, great to see you.  Feel free to stay for a drink, but darkprincess is coming home at X o'clock for V-day's dinner so we'll have to call it a night by X:XX pm."  If friend didn't know it was V-day, he didn't know he was intruding on a special night.  Even if he did know (because really how do you miss the significance of such a fabulous dinner getting prepped?), DH still should have said that to make it clear that he needed to be out by a certain time.

Failing that, you could have called him a cab or had one of you take him home while the other cuddled with your daughter.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: #borecore on February 15, 2012, 03:40:52 PM
Just a hunch, but I bet he knew full well it was Valentine's Day. That would explain the stiffer-than-usual drink, too!

You should have said, "Oh, it's time for Valentine's dinner for just the two of us. DH, can you give friend a ride home now?"
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Surianne on February 15, 2012, 03:51:00 PM
I put this one on your husband.  When your friend dropped in, he should have said, "Hey, great to see you.  Feel free to stay for a drink, but darkprincess is coming home at X o'clock for V-day's dinner so we'll have to call it a night by X:XX pm."  If friend didn't know it was V-day, he didn't know he was intruding on a special night.  Even if he did know (because really how do you miss the significance of such a fabulous dinner getting prepped?), DH still should have said that to make it clear that he needed to be out by a certain time.

Failing that, you could have called him a cab or had one of you take him home while the other cuddled with your daughter.

I agree.  The Friend was just doing what's normal for him, and what has been accepted in the past -- dropping by.  I'm not sure how he was supposed to know about the special Valentine's dinner.  I don't celebrate Valentine's and neither do many of my friends, so it's not automatic that everyone in a couple celebrates.  All your husband had to do to save the night was simply say "I'm sorry, I have special plans with my wife this evening."  So to me, this is on your husband (and later you for not saying anything), not the friend.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: kudeebee on February 15, 2012, 04:04:28 PM
I have to agree with pp's--why didn't dh send him on his way?  "Sorry friend, today is Valentine's Day and I am preparing a special dinner for our family so you can't stay.  Drop by another night."  Then usher him to the door.

I would have put him in my car and driven him home while dh cuddled with dd or why couldn't dh drive him home?  You could have delayed dinner for a short time.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Kaypeep on February 15, 2012, 04:56:50 PM
I agree with the PPs.  The fault on this one lies with your DH, he should have said something to his friend as soon as the friend arrived letting him know that the visit was bad timing and you guys had plans.  You should talk to your DH about this in the future if this friend is the comfortable enough to stop by and drink enough that he can't drive home right away.  I can see this situation happening again, holiday or not, and your husband needs to be able to tell his friend "Sorry, but now isn't a good time.  Let's try and get together tomorrow instead" and then show him the door.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Sharnita on February 15, 2012, 06:52:40 PM
I think there are a lot of couples who don't do special dinner on Valentine's Day or do it on an alternative night, etc.  I think just because it has beeb deemed by society "a night of romance" doesn't mean that everyone recognizes it.  It would have been nice if he asked but I think your DH should have said something when his friend didn't ask.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: PeterM on February 15, 2012, 08:54:02 PM
I'm gonna apportion the blame 50/50, at worst, between the OP/DH and their friend. I think the friend was clueless enough to be rude in not figuring things out, but I do agree with the PPs who say y'all should've just told him to leave, or called a cab, or driven him home.

Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Isometric on February 15, 2012, 09:00:18 PM
I think there are a lot of couples who don't do special dinner on Valentine's Day or do it on an alternative night, etc.  I think just because it has beeb deemed by society "a night of romance" doesn't mean that everyone recognizes it.  It would have been nice if he asked but I think your DH should have said something when his friend didn't ask.

This is true. But shouldn't the "guest" have noticed the steak and lobster and wondered why they were having such a nice meal on a Tuesday night? (Unless that's a regular Tuesday night meal in OP's house)
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Raintree on February 15, 2012, 10:14:51 PM
Agreeing with PPs. When he showed up he should have been told, "Oh, sorry, tonight's not good. Valentine's dinner with the wife, ya know? It'd be great to see you tomorrow."

It's entirely possible that he was oblivious to V-day. People who aren't coupled can easily forget, even when they've seen the little hearts all over the stores that day.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: camlan on February 15, 2012, 10:39:33 PM
It's not rude to inform someone, especially someone who drops by unannounced, that you have plans and he isn't included in them. It will probably feel unkind, but that's what he gets for dropping by unannounced. He has to accept the fact that if he doesn't call you ahead of time, sometimes you will not be able to invite him in.

There were a few missed opportunities here. First, when Mr. Oblivious arrived. Your DH could have told him it wasn't a good time for a visit, or let him in, but with a deadline--"We're having a special Valentine's dinner tonight, but you can stay for an hour/until DarkPrincess gets home."

When the OP arrived home. How long does it take to drive him home? Could your daughter have missed the cuddling for 20 minutes or so to get Mr. Oblivious safely home? I realize she was sick and wanted her mom, but she would have been safe at home with her dad--and all of you would have been spared the company of an outsider for the entire evening. Of course, if he lives an hour away, driving him home wasn't an option. But calling him a cab was.

And if he's pouring such stiff drinks that one drink makes him unable to drive for what appears to have been several hours, then, yes, I'd lock up the liquor. Or at least put it where he'll have to ask for it in the future.

But really, I think something should have been said about the plans right when he arrived, so that he was aware that it wasn't just a regular weeknight for your family. You and your DH should discuss this and work out what you will do, so that the next time Mr. Oblivious arrives and you have plans you are able to send him away and not have to adapt your plans to his presence.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: squashedfrog on February 16, 2012, 03:14:47 AM
Count me as agreeing with the PPs, your DH really should have said something.   OP can I ask what has your DH said on the matter?
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: rigs32 on February 16, 2012, 08:51:41 AM


When the OP arrived home. How long does it take to drive him home? Could your daughter have missed the cuddling for 20 minutes or so to get Mr. Oblivious safely home? I realize she was sick and wanted her mom, but she would have been safe at home with her dad--and all of you would have been spared the company of an outsider for the entire evening. Of course, if he lives an hour away, driving him home wasn't an option. But calling him a cab was.

Pod.  I blame your DH most, but you could have said something to salvage the evening.  By allowing it to happen, you're partly to blame.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: rashea on February 16, 2012, 09:44:01 AM
I'll go slightly against the grain. I'd put the blame 75/25 on the friend, because I think it's pretty rude to pour yourself a drink that's stiff enough that you can't drive near the dinner hour, when you have yet to be invited to dinner. The OP says that sometimes he gets invited, but it wasn't a given at that point.

And I would have called him a cab.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Giggity on February 16, 2012, 10:03:25 AM
This is true. But shouldn't the "guest" have noticed the steak and lobster and wondered why they were having such a nice meal on a Tuesday night? (Unless that's a regular Tuesday night meal in OP's house)

In (for instance) my parents' house, which was built in 1975, the wet bar is off the living room, on the opposite side of the living room from where the kitchen is. Someone mixing a drink would have no way to find out what's in the kitchen.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: camlan on February 16, 2012, 10:13:53 AM
It's also possible that Mr. Oblivious saw the steak and lobster and thought, "Oh, boy! I'm staying here for dinner tonight! All I have at home is cold pizza from last Thursday!"

If he's managed to miss all the advertising about Valentine's Day, I don't have a high opinion of his hint detector. And he was perfectly happy to stay even though he knew the child was sick. If I'd dropped by and realized friends were dealing with a sick and possibly cranky child, I'd leave. Not so much for the germ factor as the fact that sick children take more of their parents' attention and I'd figure the parents wouldn't want an unexpected guest right that minute.

And don't forget that your DH can sit down with this guy and ask him to start calling before he comes over. It's not rude to set a boundary like that. Imagine if he gate-crashed the birthday party you were throwing for your mom, or the one evening you got the grandparents to have your daughter for a sleep over and were planning a more adult evening.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: TootsNYC on February 16, 2012, 10:47:54 AM
Just a hunch, but I bet he knew full well it was Valentine's Day. That would explain the stiffer-than-usual drink, too!

You should have said, "Oh, it's time for Valentine's dinner for just the two of us. DH, can you give friend a ride home now?"

Yeah, I know DH was cooking, but I think he should have found a way to delay it so he could drive his "friend" home.

And I'd use this as a cue that you are not *ever* okay with him walking in your house and pouring himself a drink/getting a beer/whatever. He has proven that he can't be trusted, and you should sort of roll that back somehow. Start by putting the liquor somewhere that he has to ask for it. But honestly, I'd start sending him home after 10 minutes EVERY time he came over for the next 3 months. "Good to see you, but I'm going to have to send you home now; we're having a family dinner." And if he says something, you say, "Dude, you're not invited--this is a family dinner. It's time for you to go home."

Get him really used to it.

And camlan is right--have DH sit his friend down and say, "dude, you crashed our Valentine's Day. I'm kinda p.o.'d; I was looking forward to the time w/ my sweetie--and sweeties. You can't drop by anymore. We'll invite you if we want you to stop by."

Seriously, he blew his membership on the "you're welcome to drop in" list.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: DavidH on February 16, 2012, 10:55:21 AM
Since the pattern of coming over unannounced for a drink is set, and doesn't seem to be something you object to in general, I think that his actions while clueless, followed a precedent and wasn't particularly rude.  Since he shows up uninvited and is presumably a close friend, you can certainly say, "I'm sorry, tonight isn't good, how about tomorrow instead?"  I can personally attest to the fact that despite all the ads around Valentine's day, you can forget completely, or at least until you get home.

Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: QueenofAllThings on February 16, 2012, 11:53:45 AM
The OP could also have driven the friend home. I appreciate that her daughter wanted to 'cuddle', but you (the OP) can't have it both ways. Either drive the man home and have your daughter wait (remember that DH is cooking), or cuddle with your daughter knowing full well that friend will then be staying.

You did have the ability to fix this, and you chose not to - disappointment is natural, but there's not much to complain about.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: EMuir on February 16, 2012, 12:14:10 PM
I think your DH owes you another supper.  Next time call friend a taxi.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: weeblewobble on February 16, 2012, 12:46:07 PM
I think the fault is with friend and I don't blame you for being upset with him.  I think there's a difference between clueless and willfully oblivious.  You don't have to be involved in a serious relationship to know that couples want to do something romantic together on Valentine's Day.  And if he left the house on Tuesday, there's no way he wasn't aware it was Valentine's Day.  Heck, the fact that he fixed himself a stronger drink than usual is an indicator he was either stressed by Valentine's Day or didn't want to be able to drive himself home for some time.

I think it's time to set boundaries.  Or to start calling friend a cab when he comes over and drinks too much.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: purplemuse on February 16, 2012, 01:38:25 PM
It might have been cluelessness, but there's cluelessness that you just brush off as "Oh, you didn't know any better," and then there's cluelessness that makes me think "I don't care if you genuinely didn't know, you still should have known."

To me, this is the second kind.

I mean, it would be all well and good for him to protest "I didn't know they were celebrating Valentine's Day," but if we did a poll here, or even sent someone out on the street to ask "Would you drop in on a couple on Valentine's Day if you don't know whether or not they celebrate?" I'm sure the answer would be a resounding "No."

Yes, the OP and her DH should have spoken up, but I don't think this guy is "innocent" in this situation-- not by a long shot.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Outdoor Girl on February 16, 2012, 01:43:05 PM
I can see dropping in on friends, not realizing it was Valentine's Day.  But as soon as he saw the steak and lobster, he should have beat feet out of there.  That is so obviously intended as a romantic dinner that he would have to be an absolute dolt not to have picked up on it.

OP, I think you need to sit down with hubby and be prepared for the next time something like this happens so you can both be on the same page.  Whether that is hubby telling him that he can only stay for a hour until you get home or whether it is one of you driving him home if he's had too much to drink or whether you call him a cab.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Surianne on February 16, 2012, 02:15:23 PM
I think the fault is with friend and I don't blame you for being upset with him.  I think there's a difference between clueless and willfully oblivious.  You don't have to be involved in a serious relationship to know that couples want to do something romantic together on Valentine's Day.

Most of the couples I'm friends with don't do Valentine's Day, so it wouldn't have been even a tiny blip on my radar.  It has nothing at all to do with being willfully oblivious.  To most people I know, it's just another day. 

If I were to drop by a friend's place and they said nothing, I'd assume they weren't celebrating, because if they were celebrating, obviously (to my mind) they'd simply let me know that they weren't up for a visit tonight. 
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Tilt Fairy on February 16, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
I think the fault lies with your friend but your DH could easily have rectified the situation, in fact, very easily I think. When friend came over, your husband could have talked about the meal he was making at the time and how excited he was about having a romantic evening with you or how rare it was that you two had time to have a romantic dinner together or even a simple half-joking white lie "yeah dude, lets have a quick beer, I'm gonna need it to get through the cheesy romantic valentines meal tonight to please the misses!" or "ha ha i'm glad you came over and distracted me with a drink, making this romantic meal for darkprincess tonight has had me craving for a shot of whisky and some manly banter!"- little jokey comments like that to give your friend the hint that though he appreciates his company and friendship, he needs him to clear off tonight to spend some time with you. The fact that your DHs friend comes over often unannounced  and shares your home and dinners with you must mean that him and your husband are very close.

When it got to the point that your DH realised he may have had too much to drink to drive home safely himself, he could have just been like "oops, I think we got carried away a little bit, how about I call you a cab home so me and dear wife can get down to some "wink wink" accompanied by a cheeky nudge or "lets call you a cab home, normally I'd invite you to stay but the misses was so looking forward to a romantic meal just the two of us, you know how women get sentimental over this mushy valentines day stuff!". That way, your DH could have spared your friends embarrassment and awkwardness for dropping in on valentines day evening, nobody gets offended and the two of you and your daughter could spend a lovely valentines day night together. To answer your question, cheeky light humoured hints would get the job done in any future situation or even like previous posters have said, nothing wrong with a soft, kind, literal to-the-point - "I got a certain something special planned with the wifey tonight". Sometimes even the most oblivious house guests need a nudge.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: darkprincess on February 16, 2012, 03:02:06 PM
OP here. . . just a little follow up.
DD didn't just want to cuddle, she was crying. We have taken her to the doctor and she has strep throat. She was in a lot of pain and when I came home she broke down emotionally.

Husband said the friend knew it was Valentines day and admitted that the stiff drink was because he was alone that day. He also knew DH was home because they had talked earlier about DH preparing a special V day dinner for me.

He normally doesn't drink like that so this was unexpected. The drink wasn't several drinks it was one large glass after he had ate nothing the whole day. DH didn't think the whole glass was alcohal he thought it was mixed with something nonalcohalic as was normal for friend. While we do have friends that help themselves to drinks they have all been light drinkers, since an incident with a mutual friend who was not. The mutual friend is not allowed to drink in anyones house anymore because of similar incidents. I will be reminding friend of this other friend.

Where we live Taxi's aren't really an option without a big lead time. We could not have put him in his car. We do not let people drive when they have been drinking. Both of us agreed that one of us should have driven him home, we know better in the future. DH was a bit out of sorts after caring for sick daughter all day and I had just got home from a stressful day at work to DD having a break down. We were not completely in the best frame of mind.

I guess I am just amazed that someone would, knowing it was Valentine's day and knowing we had special plans show up in the hopes that we would provide him company and solace because he didn't have special plans.

Husband has apologized, friend is still clueless because "child was sick so he didn't really ruin anything that wasn't already ruined." But he did apologize for drinking beyond the norm in our house. In the future I am going to recognize the cluelessness of people who have shown themselves to be clueless and feel free to politely yet firmly spell out our household expectations and plans. I may also keep an eye out for a locking liquior cabinet to avoid things like this in the future.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on February 16, 2012, 03:04:52 PM

Husband has apologized, friend is still clueless because "child was sick so he didn't really ruin anything that wasn't already ruined." But he did apologize for drinking beyond the norm in our house. In the future I am going to recognize the cluelessness of people who have shown themselves to be clueless and feel free to politely yet firmly spell out our household expectations and plans. I may also keep an eye out for a locking liquior cabinet to avoid things like this in the future.

Wow.  I would give this "friend" the cut direct so fast his head spun.  This was *not* cluelessness; this was deliberate insensitivity, paired with dismissive non-acceptance of responsibility. 

Your husband has a friend who is so dismissive of your husband's relationship with you that, knowing that your husband had plans, he dropped in unannounced and fixed himself a stiff drink.

How would your husband react to that happening to somebody else?
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Moray on February 16, 2012, 03:07:43 PM
OP here. . . just a little follow up.
DD didn't just want to cuddle, she was crying. We have taken her to the doctor and she has strep throat. She was in a lot of pain and when I came home she broke down emotionally.

Husband said the friend knew it was Valentines day and admitted that the stiff drink was because he was alone that day. He also knew DH was home because they had talked earlier about DH preparing a special V day dinner for me.

He normally doesn't drink like that so this was unexpected. The drink wasn't several drinks it was one large glass after he had ate nothing the whole day. DH didn't think the whole glass was alcohal he thought it was mixed with something nonalcohalic as was normal for friend. While we do have friends that help themselves to drinks they have all been light drinkers, since an incident with a mutual friend who was not. The mutual friend is not allowed to drink in anyones house anymore because of similar incidents. I will be reminding friend of this other friend.

Where we live Taxi's aren't really an option without a big lead time. We could not have put him in his car. We do not let people drive when they have been drinking. Both of us agreed that one of us should have driven him home, we know better in the future. DH was a bit out of sorts after caring for sick daughter all day and I had just got home from a stressful day at work to DD having a break down. We were not completely in the best frame of mind.

I guess I am just amazed that someone would, knowing it was Valentine's day and knowing we had special plans show up in the hopes that we would provide him company and solace because he didn't have special plans.

Husband has apologized, friend is still clueless because "child was sick so he didn't really ruin anything that wasn't already ruined." But he did apologize for drinking beyond the norm in our house. In the future I am going to recognize the cluelessness of people who have shown themselves to be clueless and feel free to politely yet firmly spell out our household expectations and plans. I may also keep an eye out for a locking liquior cabinet to avoid things like this in the future.

Re: The bolded: It sounds like DH needs to have another chat with him. Setting aside your Valentine's Day plans, if Friend was aware your little one was ill and needy, that should have been another huge freakin' clue that this wasn't a good time to get trashed at your place.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: rashea on February 16, 2012, 03:09:14 PM

Husband has apologized, friend is still clueless because "child was sick so he didn't really ruin anything that wasn't already ruined." But he did apologize for drinking beyond the norm in our house. In the future I am going to recognize the cluelessness of people who have shown themselves to be clueless and feel free to politely yet firmly spell out our household expectations and plans. I may also keep an eye out for a locking liquior cabinet to avoid things like this in the future.

So he came over with the intention of ruining your evening, despite knowing it was a special dinner? And then blamed it on the kid?

I'd be telling him he might need to start calling for a while, because I'd be pissed.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Surianne on February 16, 2012, 03:22:51 PM
Husband said the friend knew it was Valentines day and admitted that the stiff drink was because he was alone that day. He also knew DH was home because they had talked earlier about DH preparing a special V day dinner for me.

He knew your husband was preparing a special V-day dinner for you??

With that update, I take back everything I've said.  He was definitely rude, and not just clueless.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Tilt Fairy on February 16, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
OP here. . . just a little follow up.
DD didn't just want to cuddle, she was crying. We have taken her to the doctor and she has strep throat. She was in a lot of pain and when I came home she broke down emotionally.

Husband said the friend knew it was Valentines day and admitted that the stiff drink was because he was alone that day. He also knew DH was home because they had talked earlier about DH preparing a special V day dinner for me.

He normally doesn't drink like that so this was unexpected. The drink wasn't several drinks it was one large glass after he had ate nothing the whole day. DH didn't think the whole glass was alcohal he thought it was mixed with something nonalcohalic as was normal for friend. While we do have friends that help themselves to drinks they have all been light drinkers, since an incident with a mutual friend who was not. The mutual friend is not allowed to drink in anyones house anymore because of similar incidents. I will be reminding friend of this other friend.

Where we live Taxi's aren't really an option without a big lead time. We could not have put him in his car. We do not let people drive when they have been drinking. Both of us agreed that one of us should have driven him home, we know better in the future. DH was a bit out of sorts after caring for sick daughter all day and I had just got home from a stressful day at work to DD having a break down. We were not completely in the best frame of mind.

I guess I am just amazed that someone would, knowing it was Valentine's day and knowing we had special plans show up in the hopes that we would provide him company and solace because he didn't have special plans.

Husband has apologized, friend is still clueless because "child was sick so he didn't really ruin anything that wasn't already ruined." But he did apologize for drinking beyond the norm in our house. In the future I am going to recognize the cluelessness of people who have shown themselves to be clueless and feel free to politely yet firmly spell out our household expectations and plans. I may also keep an eye out for a locking liquior cabinet to avoid things like this in the future.

Thanks for the update OP. Wow, your friend was clueless. Not clueless in the sense that he didn't realise it was valentines day (as you said he did know) but clueless in the sense that he didn't understand that you and your husband and your child would want to spend the special evening together. Or, even worse, it sounds like he had no problem interrupting your existing plans as he didn't think it was a big deal. A special evening with a sick child (in her own house) doesn't make the evening less special or less important, it just makes it a couple of % more difficult. Your friend sounds like he was so consumed with how he felt about the day or himself that he didn't really give any thought to you and your husband, especially when you two sound kind enough to entertain him (not out of pity) but out of genuine friendship on lots of evenings of the week.

I think that you or your husband talking to your friend about what happened would be uncomfortable as the friend would feel worse and probably more ashamed than he already is. I think secretly he knows he ruined it and knows he has been selfish. If he doesn't, then he really is completely clueless and the only way completely clueless people can learn anything is as you said, telling it to them straight - perhaps calling in advance from now on.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: camlan on February 16, 2012, 07:40:33 PM


I think that you or your husband talking to your friend about what happened would be uncomfortable as the friend would feel worse and probably more ashamed than he already is. I think secretly he knows he ruined it and knows he has been selfish. If he doesn't, then he really is completely clueless and the only way completely clueless people can learn anything is as you said, telling it to them straight - perhaps calling in advance from now on.

And the problem with that is? Because I don't think this guy feels ashamed at all. He deliberately inserted himself into the plans of his friends, because he was sad he was alone on Valentine's Day. I think he does need to hear that his behavior was unwelcome.

I'd be rethinking my friendship with this guy. He doesn't really sound like a nice friend.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Tilt Fairy on February 16, 2012, 07:48:31 PM


I think that you or your husband talking to your friend about what happened would be uncomfortable as the friend would feel worse and probably more ashamed than he already is. I think secretly he knows he ruined it and knows he has been selfish. If he doesn't, then he really is completely clueless and the only way completely clueless people can learn anything is as you said, telling it to them straight - perhaps calling in advance from now on.

And the problem with that is? Because I don't think this guy feels ashamed at all. He deliberately inserted himself into the plans of his friends, because he was sad he was alone on Valentine's Day. I think he does need to hear that his behavior was unwelcome.

I'd be rethinking my friendship with this guy. He doesn't really sound like a nice friend.

Agreed. Re-reading it all, I can't see his behaviour as anything other than selfish and disruptive. I don't know why I thought he sounded ashamed. He wasn't even apologetic was he?!! You're right. The OP and husband should let the friend know that what he did was unacceptable and hurtful.

To the OP. To make up for it, could you and your husband have time for another romantic night in together and cook together to compensate for the spoiled evening? Maybe when your daughter's better?
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: doodlemor on February 16, 2012, 07:52:58 PM


I think that you or your husband talking to your friend about what happened would be uncomfortable as the friend would feel worse and probably more ashamed than he already is. I think secretly he knows he ruined it and knows he has been selfish. If he doesn't, then he really is completely clueless and the only way completely clueless people can learn anything is as you said, telling it to them straight - perhaps calling in advance from now on.

And the problem with that is? Because I don't think this guy feels ashamed at all. He deliberately inserted himself into the plans of his friends, because he was sad he was alone on Valentine's Day. I think he does need to hear that his behavior was unwelcome.

I'd be rethinking my friendship with this guy. He doesn't really sound like a nice friend.

I agree with this 100%.  This man is incredibly selfish.  I almost wonder if he has a *crush* on the OP, that he wanted to ruin a romantic evening with her DH.

I had some time to think about this today.  He must have had an incredible amount of alcohol, if he were telling the truth.  One drink is supposed to diffuse itself in an hour or so, isn't it?  If he truly was unable to leave for hours he must have downed a lot of booze.

Is it possible that he mooches off a large group of friends?  Does he go somewhere almost every night for dinner, and never cooks for himself?

Absolutely, I think that the OP and her husband need to distance themselves from this person - and to put the liquor in an inaccessible place.

Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: travestine on February 16, 2012, 08:09:57 PM
I have to say - I think the OP has a bigger problem here than just a ruined Valentine's dinner.

1.  Why didn't your DH tell him when he walked through the door (! that's a whole other thread in in itself!) that this wasn't a good night and show him out?

2.  Why is it okay for your guests to walk in and help them to anything, let alone alcohol?  I know some people like to be casual with their friends - but this was beyond the limit.

3.  why did removing this guy become YOUR problem when it was your DH who caused the problem by letting him stay and not observing what he was drinking (which wouldn't have been a problem if he had been required to request a drink and your DH had served him and been aware of what his alcohol intake).

4.  Why would your DH spend your evening sitting and yakking about Star Trek with his intoxicated buddy when he should have told his buddy to sleep it off on the couch and he should have been with you, comforting your child?

Sorry, but there are just so many issues going on here - a missed dinner is the least. Your husband was the one who was or should have been in control in every situation - after all, this is HIS friend - yet he allowed the focus of your evening to become his buddy, rather than you and your sick child.  The friend was a jerk and needs to be aware of what a jerk he was, but your husband, in my estimation, let you down.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: KenveeB on February 16, 2012, 10:42:29 PM


I think that you or your husband talking to your friend about what happened would be uncomfortable as the friend would feel worse and probably more ashamed than he already is. I think secretly he knows he ruined it and knows he has been selfish. If he doesn't, then he really is completely clueless and the only way completely clueless people can learn anything is as you said, telling it to them straight - perhaps calling in advance from now on.

And the problem with that is? Because I don't think this guy feels ashamed at all. He deliberately inserted himself into the plans of his friends, because he was sad he was alone on Valentine's Day. I think he does need to hear that his behavior was unwelcome.

I'd be rethinking my friendship with this guy. He doesn't really sound like a nice friend.

Right. I'd agree with the bolded if he was apologetic, but he wasn't remotely sorry about what happened. He's blaming everyone but himself for purposely ruining someone's special Valentine's Day that he knew about! This wasn't just accidentally dropping in because he didn't realize they were celebrating. It was him selfishly deciding to ruin their night because he was upset about his own.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: MacadamiaNut on February 17, 2012, 01:02:06 AM
Am I right in assuming the friend has not been told he has done anything wrong by your DH, OP?  I can't tell from your update if friend's apology was the result of a conversation DH started or if friend just came forward himself and apologized about the drinking.  I was going to make a comment but then realized this missing piece will help complete my thought.  If you have a chance, please reply - thank you!  :)
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: weeblewobble on February 17, 2012, 12:44:44 PM
If anything, the update makes 'Friend' sound worse. He definitely falls under willfully oblivious.  He sounds selfish and short-sighted, unable to see past his own needs.  If nothing else, the fact that you had a sick, crying child at home should have tipped him off that you didn't need the additional stress of a guest.  And his comment that "he didn't ruin anything that wasn't already ruined" smacks of immaturity and entitlement.

DH definitely owes you a "mulligan" dinner.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: gingerzing on February 17, 2012, 01:20:19 PM
If anything, the update makes 'Friend' sound worse. He definitely falls under willfully oblivious.  He sounds selfish and short-sighted, unable to see past his own needs.  If nothing else, the fact that you had a sick, crying child at home should have tipped him off that you didn't need the additional stress of a guest.  And his comment that "he didn't ruin anything that wasn't already ruined" smacks of immaturity and entitlement.

DH definitely owes you a "mulligan" dinner.

Yup this. 
He was a total jerk at least two times over. 
First that he KNEW that DH was fixing a special meal.  (You are not invited.  Special meal is not for drop by visitors)
Second that he knew that there was a sick child.  Then blaming a ruined evening on the child.  You all had plans to cuddle, even with sick child. 
For some reason I hope he caught what the child had just to prove a point.  (And if he complains, well he knew the child was ill before he even came over.)

Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: FauxFoodist on February 17, 2012, 02:30:39 PM
If anything, the update makes 'Friend' sound worse. He definitely falls under willfully oblivious.  He sounds selfish and short-sighted, unable to see past his own needs.  If nothing else, the fact that you had a sick, crying child at home should have tipped him off that you didn't need the additional stress of a guest.  And his comment that "he didn't ruin anything that wasn't already ruined" smacks of immaturity and entitlement.

DH definitely owes you a "mulligan" dinner.

Pod.  I don't give this guy a pass at all -- he deliberately ruined your dinner because he was only looking out for himself.  Steak and lobster dinner for three?  That sounds about $100 and up (depending upon where you are) -- expensive and lovely dinner to ruin, and he didn't care enough about you, DH or your daughter to not ruin Valentine's Day for someone else?  That's not a friend.  Oh, I'd be spitting mad if that had happened to me and wouldn't want that guy just dropping in anymore (well, wouldn't want him in my house again, period).
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Sara Crewe on February 18, 2012, 08:10:27 AM



I agree with this 100%.  This man is incredibly selfish.  I almost wonder if he has a *crush* on the OP, that he wanted to ruin a romantic evening with her DH.


It sounds more to me as though he has a crush on the OP's DH - he carefully monopolised said DH's attention and deliberately excluded the OP on Valentine's Day.  Substitute a woman for a man doing this and I think there would be a strong suspicion she was moving in on the DH.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: doodlemor on February 18, 2012, 11:48:45 AM



I agree with this 100%.  This man is incredibly selfish.  I almost wonder if he has a *crush* on the OP, that he wanted to ruin a romantic evening with her DH.


It sounds more to me as though he has a crush on the OP's DH - he carefully monopolised said DH's attention and deliberately excluded the OP on Valentine's Day.  Substitute a woman for a man doing this and I think there would be a strong suspicion she was moving in on the DH.

Wow!  Good point.  This makes more sense.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: wolfie on February 18, 2012, 12:57:05 PM
I think you guys are reaching here. Most likely what happened is someone who is not happy at being alone, V-day really brought it into focus for him that he is alone and he might be having thoughts of "will I ever find someone" and decided to go to his friends place to try to feel better. Was it selfish of him? yes. Should he have done it? No. But I think calling him a user or that he is trying to move in on someone in the couple is a bit much. 
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: doodlemor on February 18, 2012, 01:44:57 PM
I think you guys are reaching here. Most likely what happened is someone who is not happy at being alone, V-day really brought it into focus for him that he is alone and he might be having thoughts of "will I ever find someone" and decided to go to his friends place to try to feel better. Was it selfish of him? yes. Should he have done it? No. But I think calling him a user or that he is trying to move in on someone in the couple is a bit much.

You're right, wolfie, it is a stretch. 

I have seen both of these situations among my friends, however, many times.  One doesn't always immediately think that an interloper is trying to entice the partner of the same gender, but it does happen.

Tiamet brought up an interesting point with this statement:

*Substitute a woman for a man doing this and I think there would be a strong suspicion she was moving in on the DH.*
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: VorFemme on February 18, 2012, 05:47:00 PM
Friend gets the majority of the blame.  Husband should have told him right up front that they had a sick kid (not to mention plans for dinner & a movie for the FAMILY until the kid went to sleep - then Valentine's plans) and that this was NOT a good night for the friend to stick around.

I guarantee you that a stiff drink, steak & lobster, and no negative consequences will NOT teach him a lesson about dropping in and serving himself a drink then essentially inviting himself to dinner.

Unless he ended up getting what your kid has and "lost" the steak and lobster later that night................which would only be "justice"...................but is tough when YOU guys paid for the steak & lobster.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Kept reading - he *K*N*E*W* that you had a sick kid and that your DH was preparing a special meal for the holiday before he came over and served himself a triple (quadruple) drink?

This guy couldn't get a clue if you shot it out of a cannon into his chest................because he doesn't want to think about YOUR Valentine's Day plans, it was all about HIM and the fact that he doesn't have anyone special in HIS life.

Well, if all his dates in the past have found out that his life revolves around HIM and so must theirs..........no wonder he doesn't have an SO at the moment. 

Snarky and Evil are sputtering...........strep is contagious - the guy will probably blame you guys when he gets sick and wonder why nobody is taking care of him after you all gave him strep (along with the steak & lobster dinner and whatever he drank).  Because it's all YOUR fault...............
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: June24 on February 19, 2012, 01:26:23 AM
I put the blame almost completely on the friend. It's rude to be so completely oblivious that you not only forget that it's Valentine's day, but also fail to realize that steak and lobster is a special couple's meal. It's true that not all couples celebrate Valentine's, but in the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, one should assume that a couple cooking steak and lobster on the day is planning on a romantic evening. Social cluelessness may not be deliberate, but that doesn't mean that it's not rude.  It's also rude to pour yourself such a stiff drink that you can't drive for hours afterwards.

OP, since you were annoyed, you could have easily told the friend that it was time for your special Valentine's dinner with your dh. If he couldn't drive, you could've called him a cab (at his expense). There was no need for you to seethe in a separate room all night. Your dh also should have let him know that it was time to leave.

ETA: It's most probable that the friend realized that he was ruining your plans, but didn't care because he didn't want to spend the evening alone.

ETA: Having read the update, I would cool the relationship with this guy, and have a very serious talk with my dh. I wouldn't want someone so selfish in my house again.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Winterlight on February 19, 2012, 01:58:12 PM
I think DH needs to have a talk with this friend, and there should be some distancing going on.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Roses on February 28, 2012, 09:17:19 PM
I agree with PP's.  This guy purposely intruded on your valentine's day plans and was unapologetic about doing so.  It's time for some serious boundaries with this friend.  No more drop ins, move the alcohol, rethink the friendship; he showed very little respect for you, your sick daughter and your family dynamics. 

Sorry your Valentine's Day didn't turn out as you had hoped. 
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: darkprincess on February 29, 2012, 11:20:54 AM
I just wanted to thank everyone who responded. The "guest" has been talked to and steps have been put in place to stop future incidents.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: jedikaiti on February 29, 2012, 04:46:11 PM
I just wanted to thank everyone who responded. The "guest" has been talked to and steps have been put in place to stop future incidents.

I hope those steps include some reimbursement for the (presumably somewhat pricey) dinner he ruined. If he doesn't at least offer up a shamefaced apology and a bottle of really expensive booze to replace what he guzzled, he'd be persona non grata in my life.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on February 29, 2012, 10:10:28 PM
And ?? How did he react?
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: TiredMum on March 01, 2012, 12:19:42 AM
I'm so mad on your behalf at the jerk, 

PODing Vorfemme

This guy need to make amends!
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: darkprincess on March 06, 2012, 06:26:54 PM
I recognize that sometimes amends will not be made :( and I need to accept that, move forward, and take steps to not let this or similar things happen in the future.

I count this as a life lesson.

On a side note on a more recent occasion he has come over univited to find us not home. He called at our front porch. We were out to a nice dinner and DH did not answer the call or text  ;D He also learned a lesson. We came home to find him on the porch, in the rain, soaking wet. I think our friend needs a few more life lessons before he will get it, but it will no longer be at my expense.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: FauxFoodist on March 06, 2012, 07:06:04 PM
We came home to find him on the porch, in the rain, soaking wet.

So, it's also safe to assume that this grown man doesn't even have enough sense to get out of the rain...?
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: CuriousParty on March 06, 2012, 08:35:30 PM
We came home to find him on the porch, in the rain, soaking wet.

So, it's also safe to assume that this grown man doesn't even have enough sense to get out of the rain...?
I think that's established fact, rather than an assumption, at this point...
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: KenveeB on March 07, 2012, 07:15:31 AM
There's something seriously off with this guy. Why would he stick around in the rain when he found out you weren't home instead of just going home? He was making a point of "you abandoned me, look what happened."
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Sara Crewe on March 07, 2012, 01:42:30 PM
There's something seriously off with this guy. Why would he stick around in the rain when he found out you weren't home instead of just going home? He was making a point of "you abandoned me, look what happened."

I agree with this.  This is bizarre behaviour.  If I visit someone and they aren't home, I either leave again or possibly wait a short time if we have definite arrangements.

I don't show up without calling and then get drenched to the skin waiting for hours to 'show them what they did to me' which is what this person appears to have done.

Unless you can provide a very good reason why he didn't leave when you and your DH weren't in, this is almost crossing into stalker territory (please note I said almost - I don't think he is there, but he's approaching at speed).
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: lowspark on March 07, 2012, 02:03:42 PM
He came over, unannounced and univited, AFTER he'd been talked to?

Because sorry, but that's still crossing the line. He needs to be told, in no uncertain terms, that he must always call before coming and even then he doesn't need to make a habit of coming over uninvited.

What if you had been home that rainy night? Would he have then come in and invited himself to dinner? Hung around drinking your liquor? etc.

Valentine's day or not, you and your family have a right to privacy and intimacy (meaning evenings where it's just the three of you). His dropping by whenever he feels like it is not ok unless it just happens once in a blue moon.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: CreteGirl on March 07, 2012, 02:09:01 PM
Standing on the front porch in the rain waiting for you to get home is so strange.  I would be so uncomfortable with this, that I would never allow him to come by uninvited again.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: MacadamiaNut on March 07, 2012, 02:15:51 PM
Was he going through something?  Some sort of turmoil that he needed to talk over with someone?  OR Was he worried about you guys after DH didn't answer the call or the text and therefore decided to wait and make sure you were okay?

If it's not something like the above, I'd be even more concerned that friend either lacks common sense or is having some other more serious issues that he should maybe seek outside help for.  Not too many people would just stay out in the rain like that... other than in the movies for dramatic effect.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: FauxFoodist on March 07, 2012, 02:30:36 PM
Not too many people would just stay out in the rain like that... other than in the movies for dramatic effect.

Sorry, I had this image of the OP and her DH finding him out on their porch in the rain a la Bridges of Madison County.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: MacadamiaNut on March 07, 2012, 03:06:11 PM
Not too many people would just stay out in the rain like that... other than in the movies for dramatic effect.

Sorry, I had this image of the OP and her DH finding him out on their porch in the rain a la Bridges of Madison County.

It really is just that bizarre that you can only imagine it happening in the movies!
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: doodlemor on March 07, 2012, 03:30:57 PM
Was this a romantic dinner, darkprincess, or did you take your child along?  Did this person know that you and DH had dinner plans, but not the location?

This man does seem creepy and bizarre.  I POD those who find him stalkerish.

Tiamet brought up an interesting point with this statement:

*Substitute a woman for a man doing this and I think there would be a strong suspicion she was moving in on the DH.*

If Tiamet is right, and he does have a *crush* on DH, it will be even harder to disentangle from the friendship.  *Now I'm not saying that this is a given.*  However such a scenario would change the way that you and DH need to deal with him.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Redsoil on March 08, 2012, 07:18:45 AM
This guy sounds overly needy, insensitive and (from what I can tell by what's written), an emotional vampire.  You and DH have a life together, the "friend" is peripheral to this - he needs to start understanding the meaning of boundaries!  What does your DH actually get out of the friendship?  Is it in any way equal?  Ot is he basically a babysitter for this bloke?
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: darkprincess on March 08, 2012, 02:15:57 PM
The guy is bored, overly needy, still lives with his mother and needs to make more friends. He doesn't like to be at home so finds ways to go elsewhere. We live within walking distance of several other common friends, It seems none of them were home and he had called everyone and was waiting to see who would come home first. We have the biggest porch, not that big >:D and no dog in the yard so he picked our to wait in. By the way we did not let him in the house, we told him we were in the middle of something and we would see him later. ;D

I am not worrying about stalking, he just hasn't grown up yet. He does have several good qualities and is usually fun to be around. When people don't understand and have not been taught polite and normal behavior I find that I have to make firmer boundaries than I have to be with others. Sometimes this will be the way they learn.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on March 09, 2012, 04:17:24 AM
Is he receptive to correcting ? or reluctant ?.
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: doodlemor on March 09, 2012, 06:52:21 PM
I'm so relieved to hear that this guy is just a clueless, immature type, darkprincess. 

It sounds like you have a good handle on the situation now.  It sounds like being *directive* to him is the way to go.  Maybe he will learn from you.  Best of luck in maintaining your future boundaries!
Title: Re: uninvited guest for valentines day dinner
Post by: LEMon on May 24, 2012, 04:35:05 AM
Congratulations for sending him on and not letting him in after his wait in the rain.  Just make sure you and DH are on the same page.  United boundaries make for a strong and healthy marriage.