Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Dating => Topic started by: courtsmad25 on March 07, 2012, 12:13:57 PM

Title: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 07, 2012, 12:13:57 PM
BG: I met this friend through work and although we are complete opposites on most things we managed to still be friends. Shes has decided on doing the internet dating thing, which is fine, but her standards are what I feel are crazy. The guys have to have:
1) Great grammar
2) good looking (and very specific, preferable blond hair, blue eyes, perfect teeth, GQ build etc)
3) Very successful (business owners are a plus)
4) *if they made it this far* must be at her beck and call and must be able to "amuse" her.
5) Must be between age x and y, z's too old
These seem minor like "well yeah, everyone deserves someone like that", but the way its presented is hideously shallow. I hear about these standards and problems while at work via work IM, then get bombarded at home with texts messages or phone calls, all complaints about these men, and how they aren't just right..and its been going on for months.

  The etiquette question: Can you politely tell someone that a) you don't have the looks NOR personality to be that picky and b)Can you politely say "look, until you decide to give an average guy a chance, I don't want to hear about this anymore?".  :o

  If I'm being too snarky please feel free to call me out on it.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: MerryCat on March 07, 2012, 12:22:43 PM
Unfortunately, unless you're very close to this friend I don't think there's anything you can say. We all know people like this - individuals who hold their potential mates to unrealistically high standards while bristling at the suggestion that they should change anything about themselves. All I can suggest is that you give your friend a few vague platitudes (I'm sure it will work out, you always find someone when you stop looking, etc) and change the subject as fast as you can. You may have to pull back somewhat, depending on how beandip resistant your friend is.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: rashea on March 07, 2012, 12:29:30 PM
Would she admit she doesn't live up to her own standards? If so, I think I would point that out to a close friend.

I think I'd tell her that very few people are going to meet her list, and if she's fine with that resulting in her being single then fine, otherwise, she should consider bending her "rules".
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: bah12 on March 07, 2012, 12:39:25 PM
If she doesn't ask you for advice or isn't asking you why she can't find the guy she's looking for, then you can't make your opinion known politely.  If she does, and she's very close, you can say something like "What's your ideal criteria and what are the priorities?  Do the guys have to be blond models and treat you like a Queen, or could you see yourself falling for a brunette non-model that makes you feel awesome?" 

I told a very close friend once that his expectations were unrealistic...that the girl he wanted didn't exist.  But I would never tell anyone "You aren't hot enough to go out with someone that physically beautiful".  Beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder!
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: TurtleDove on March 07, 2012, 12:41:55 PM
  The etiquette question: Can you politely tell someone that a) you don't have the looks NOR personality to be that picky and b)Can you politely say "look, until you decide to give an average guy a chance, I don't want to hear about this anymore?".  :o


It depends on how close you are to the person.  If it were me, and a friend continued to bombard me with complaints about her dating life, I would ask her to stop.  If she continued, I would be blunt (not cruel, blunt) and provide her with ways to solve the problems she seems to be having.  If she ignores your request to leave you out of it, then I think she has opened the door to hearing a harsh reality.  This will likely affect the freindship, but in my opinion, a friend who ignores your requests isn't that great of a friend.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: SamiHami on March 07, 2012, 12:42:33 PM
Instead of saying that she doesn't have the looks or personality (however true that may be), you might point out to her that any guys that are that wonderful are not going to be looking for a girlfriend on a dating site.

I would ask her if she wants advice or if she wants to vent about it. If she wants advice, then I'd tell her that she is being unrealistic in her expectations and that she needs to decide if she wants a relationship with a real guy or if she wants a fantasy man that is never going to materialize.

Either way, I wouldnt put up with a lot of complaining/texting/calling from her about this. She can either be realistic about finding a suitable man or not, but it's not fair for her to dump all her woes at your feet.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: HorseFreak on March 07, 2012, 01:06:20 PM
It's a lot easier to complain to your friends about this magical man that hasn't appeared on your doorstep than it is to take a chance and possibly get hurt. Setting very high standards may be a defense mechanism to prevent herself from being rejected.

I personally have some pretty high standards for potential dating partners (only moderate for physical appearance) after having long term relationships with some guys who were fine for someone else but just weren't going to cut it forever. I know I'm picky and I've accepted that the kind of guy I want is in VERY short supply in my current location. There have been interested men who are nice and funny and not half bad looking, but have major lifestyle differences that I know I just can't tolerate. The difference is that I don't whine to anyone who will listen that Mr. Perfect hasn't galloped up to my front door on a white unicorn! It sounds like you'll have to find a firm, but gentle way of telling her to knock it the heck off if you don't want to hear it anymore WITHOUT insulting her.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 07, 2012, 01:07:32 PM
Thanks guys!! ;D We're actually fairly close and she's ALWAYS saying that she wants something like my husband and I have...he's 11 years older (too old for her), Bald, factory worker (not important enough),can't call during the day (its  NOISY factory)  but he cooks like a gourmet chief, cleans, and treats me like a queen..
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 07, 2012, 01:09:08 PM
People tell me this sometimes.  It's not a lot of fun hearing that I have neither the looks nor personality to attract a person I'd actually like.

Strangely enough, it doesn't make me think "Wow, you're right!  I need to start wearing makeup and make serious changes to my personality so that I can fake being a girl that guys will be attracted to!"  It also doesn't make me think "Wow, you're right!  I should start dating people I don't respect or like!" 

It actually makes me think "Wow, that person is a jerk.  I'll make sure I don't hang out with her anymore" or in the past, when I was feeling low to begin with, it led to a lot of tears and self-injury.  Good times. 

I'd recommend simply saying that you'd prefer to talk about another subject and direct her away from the dating talk if it bothers you.  Please don't tell her that her looks and personality are lacking.  It will make you feel better, but her feel a lot worse. 



 

Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 07, 2012, 01:17:33 PM
I would never ever just come out and say that straight out exactly the way it was phrased here because beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder...I'm not saying that she needs to settle for a drug addicted convict  that doesn't work, has 15 kids and lives at home...I just wish she understood that maybe she should go for an average guy. If she chooses not to go for an average guy don't wake me in the middle of the night when the "perfect" jerk does something to "lower" his date-a-bility
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 07, 2012, 01:23:12 PM
I would never ever just come out and say that straight out exactly the way it was phrased here because beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder...I'm not saying that she needs to settle for a drug addicted convict  that doesn't work, has 15 kids and lives at home...I just wish she understood that maybe she should go for an average guy. If she chooses not to go for an average guy don't wake me in the middle of the night when the "perfect" jerk does something to "lower" his date-a-bility

For sure, it's the same with me -- a lot of people in my life wish I would understand that I don't deserve a great guy. 

My personal opinion is that no one is horrible enough or clueless enough to be told that, no matter how you phrase it.  I just don't think it's worth hurting someone in that way even if there's a good goal at the end. 

I know others will disagree, and think it's helpful, and it may well be for some women -- if they want to marry in a hurry, for example.  So I'm just speaking for myself, but I thought it might be worth providing the perspective of someone on the receiving end.  So my personal advice is "Please don't." 

I won't start a debate about it though because I've gotten caught in the past -- just a personal take and I definitely don't speak for all women  :)
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: rashea on March 07, 2012, 01:28:48 PM
I would never ever just come out and say that straight out exactly the way it was phrased here because beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder...I'm not saying that she needs to settle for a drug addicted convict  that doesn't work, has 15 kids and lives at home...I just wish she understood that maybe she should go for an average guy. If she chooses not to go for an average guy don't wake me in the middle of the night when the "perfect" jerk does something to "lower" his date-a-bility

For sure, it's the same with me -- a lot of people in my life wish I would understand that I don't deserve a great guy. 

My personal opinion is that no one is horrible enough or clueless enough to be told that, no matter how you phrase it.  I just don't think it's worth hurting someone in that way even if there's a good goal at the end. 

I know others will disagree, and think it's helpful, and it may well be for some women -- if they want to marry in a hurry, for example.  So I'm just speaking for myself, but I thought it might be worth providing the perspective of someone on the receiving end.  So my personal advice is "Please don't." 

I won't start a debate about it though because I've gotten caught in the past -- just a personal take and I definitely don't speak for all women  :)

But if I remember your previous posts correctly, you know you have very high standards, and that as a result of that you might not find a match, and you're okay with that as a possibility. Or do I have you confused with someone else?

In any case, I think it's fine to tell anyone, "you have high standards. That's fine, but that means that your dating pool is tiny, and you might not find someone who meets all your criteria. If you're okay with that, then keep your standards right where they are. If you're not, then it's on you to fix it." I also wouldn't have an issue with pointing out to a close friend that they don't meet their own standards. To me, that's something that I would want them to note and be aware of.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Yvaine on March 07, 2012, 01:33:28 PM
People tell me this sometimes.  It's not a lot of fun hearing that I have neither the looks nor personality to attract a person I'd actually like.

I think there's a difference between "a guy like this doesn't exist outside the movies" and "a guy like this exists, but you couldn't attract him." The first, I think, can be a valuable reality check, while the second is rude and mean-spirited. It's also useful for people to remember that setting too many parameters can close them off from people they could conceivably fall in love with. People have the right to set whatever dealbreakers they like, but they have to do that with the understanding that they are limiting their dating pool.

I have some of my own. I don't have an income minimum or a weight limit or a required hair color, but, for example, they have to be a SF/F geek, and funny, and it's a plus if they have a creative outlet. I know that closes me off from wide swaths of the population, but I'm ok with that, and I just go where the geeks are.  :D

Meanwhile, one of the things I've relaxed on is grammar/spelling. I used to disdain anyone who couldn't spell as well as I could, and am now happily in a relationship with someone who can't spell to save his life. Part of what got me past that was realizing that, as a former spelling bee champion, I'd have a very small dating pool if I stuck to that requirement. Another part of it was that I didn't meet my guy online, and so I got to know him before I ever saw anything he had written or typed. Thus, his spelling wasn't his first impression on me, while in online dating it is.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 07, 2012, 01:35:38 PM
Rashea -- nope, you remembered perfectly!  Yes, my situation is a little different than the OP's in that I'm good with ending up alone and would prefer that to ending up with someone I didn't genuinely love.  I meant to allude to that a bit in saying it might be helpful if her friend was looking to marry in a hurry -- I have a friend like that, who wants babies NOW, so is deliberately lowering her standards.

I do still feel, though, that it's a very, very hurtful thing to say, so to me it isn't worth doing.  I think a better approach might be suggesting the friend see a counsellor or a life coach who can help figure out why she's not meeting guys.  (A friend of mine -- the BABIES NOW! girl -- did this and the counsellor was able to phrase things in a way that was much, much less hurtful, but also got through to my friend.)

I think that most of us probably don't have the training (or intuitive understanding sans training) necessary to have that conversation properly.  I know I wouldn't be able to do it.  It's possible the OP might, but I think it's an area where she should tread very, very lightly.  I've seen a lot of people really hurt by the "No, sorry, only average guys for you" line of thinking, including myself when I was younger. 

Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 07, 2012, 01:37:55 PM
People tell me this sometimes.  It's not a lot of fun hearing that I have neither the looks nor personality to attract a person I'd actually like.

I think there's a difference between "a guy like this doesn't exist outside the movies" and "a guy like this exists, but you couldn't attract him." The first, I think, can be a valuable reality check, while the second is rude and mean-spirited. It's also useful for people to remember that setting too many parameters can close them off from people they could conceivably fall in love with. People have the right to set whatever dealbreakers they like, but they have to do that with the understanding that they are limiting their dating pool.

I have some of my own. I don't have an income minimum or a weight limit or a required hair color, but, for example, they have to be a SF/F geek, and funny, and it's a plus if they have a creative outlet. I know that closes me off from wide swaths of the population, but I'm ok with that, and I just go where the geeks are.  :D

Meanwhile, one of the things I've relaxed on is grammar/spelling. I used to disdain anyone who couldn't spell as well as I could, and am now happily in a relationship with someone who can't spell to save his life. Part of what got me past that was realizing that, as a former spelling bee champion, I'd have a very small dating pool if I stuck to that requirement. Another part of it was that I didn't meet my guy online, and so I got to know him before I ever saw anything he had written or typed. Thus, his spelling wasn't his first impression on me, while in online dating it is.

I think that it absolutely makes sense to come to these realizations.  There are standards I've relaxed in my life too (particularly when it comes to friends -- I'm a lot less picky now about the type of people I enjoy spending time with, but when I was a teenager I was a complete snob and thought only brilliant friends would do).

Where I run into problems is when it's other people trying to move you to make those realizations.  In my experience, and what I've seen with other similar friends, being *told* you need to relax your standards just isn't helpful -- we need to figure it out on our own (as you did with the spelling issue).  Perhaps it would help someone else to be told by a friend -- I don't know and I definitely can't speak for everyone.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: TurtleDove on March 07, 2012, 01:38:51 PM
I would never advocate being cruel to anyone, and especially not to a friend, but I think being honest with someone whose expectations are out of line with reality is being kind, not cruel.  I would never offer unsolicted dating advice, but if a friend continued to bemoan her single status I might offer my perspective on why she isn't (or he isn't, for that matter) finding what she claims to want.  In some ways I am reminded of another thread where another poster really really really wants to be in a specific competitive career when it is pretty clear to various people in her life (and on this board) that she is not well suited to the career and the career is likely impossible for her and if she keeps having her heart set on that career and encouraged to pursue it she will likely be heartbroken and devastated and defeated.  In some situations I think being honest, even though it might hurt, is being kind. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Yvaine on March 07, 2012, 01:40:29 PM

I think that it absolutely makes sense to come to these realizations.  There are standards I've relaxed in my life too (particularly when it comes to friends -- I'm a lot less picky now about the type of people I enjoy spending time with, but when I was a teenager I was a complete snob and thought only brilliant friends would do).

Where I run into problems is when it's other people trying to move you to make those realizations.  In my experience, and what I've seen with other similar friends, being *told* you need to relax your standards just isn't helpful -- we need to figure it out on our own (as you did with the spelling issue).  Perhaps it would help someone else to be told by a friend -- I don't know and I definitely can't speak for everyone.

On that, you may have a point.  :)
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 07, 2012, 01:45:41 PM
I would never advocate being cruel to anyone, and especially not to a friend, but I think being honest with someone whose expectations are out of line with reality is being kind, not cruel.  I would never offer unsolicted dating advice, but if a friend continued to bemoan her single status I might offer my perspective on why she isn't (or he isn't, for that matter) finding what she claims to want.  In some ways I am reminded of another thread where another poster really really really wants to be in a specific competitive career when it is pretty clear to various people in her life (and on this board) that she is not well suited to the career and the career is likely impossible for her and if she keeps having her heart set on that career and encouraged to pursue it she will likely be heartbroken and devastated and defeated.  In some situations I think being honest, even though it might hurt, is being kind.

That's a good point and I like the career analogy.  I think it would sit better with me if you (general) said something like "Let me know if you ever want insights into this, and I can give it some thought.  Sometimes a friend can see things that we can't."   And then leave it in the friend's court? 

In my case, people are trying to be kind too, but it's hearing the same thing over and over that really wears me down.  So if someone gave me the option of whether or not to listen, I could say "Oh thanks for the offer, but I actually know the problem, I was just ranting.  If I'm getting on your nerves let me know and we can change the subject" or whatever.

I'm definitely not an expert by any means, so these are all just my random thoughts. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: #borecore on March 07, 2012, 01:46:31 PM
Courtsmad25, I'm reading one thing -- that your friend won't be able to get the man she wants -- as the issue you're asking us to help you address, but I'm getting the sense that the thing you actually want to address is something different -- that you don't want to hear about her struggles anymore because you think she's doing it wrong.

Now, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I think there's a very easy (or very challenging, depending on your friend's personality) way to address this.

Next time she complains that Peter was just perrrrfect until he wouldn't answer her call at 2 a.m., for example, you say:
"Friend, I know it's tough when a guy doesn't quite measure up. I really want you to be happy, and to find the right guy for you!"
"Thanks! Man, can you believe it? Peter was 6'5" and blond and spelled 'curmudgeonly' correctly on his profile, but when I called him for the 12th time he seemed a little ticked and ..."
"You know, I understand that you're looking for a really specific set of criteria, but I am having a hard time sympathizing right now. It's just hard to hear a good friend get let down by her own expectations time and time again."
"But I only want a perfect guy."
"And I only want to hear about your love life once you've found him! I want to be here for you, but it's getting tough listening to the same old story over and over. I can't keep going through this with you when I see you hurting yourself over and over."
(Ideally)"OK, well, I'll let you know when I go on a second date with someone."
(Or possibly)"You don't care about me!!!"

And you go on from there.

As far as one poster's comment that these sorts of guys don't look for dates online: I don't think that's true. A huge number of people look for dates online these days!

I also don't think the OP's friend's needs are unrealistic just because she's not super pretty or what have you (though the needy parts are unrealistic in my view because needy is not attractive to a mate!); lots of people are 'unequally' matched. But the less you stress about her stress, the happier you'll be! It takes some of us a lot more searching to find a good match than others, but that doesn't mean our standards are wrong.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sirius on March 07, 2012, 01:53:51 PM
Mr. Sirius was once told by a woman that she couldn't date him because he wasn't attractive enough.  She missed out on an awesome guy by looking on his exterior.  Some things I could bend on; I like blue eyes but Mr. Sirius has brown eyes.  I prefer dark hair; Mr. Sirius has virtually no hair.  These things are not important.  The things that are important he's got by the ton, and what he looks like is a distant second. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: lowspark on March 07, 2012, 01:56:40 PM
There's nothing wrong with high standards, but one should be realistic, and the standards should have more to do with the depth of personality and how they treat you, that sort of thing, and less to do with superficial things.

I worked with someone years ago who had a similar list of criteria. The requirements I remember had to do with how much money he made, how much money he had saved up, and how much money he spent on her on the first date. Well you know, if a guy spends the required amount (a high $ figure at that time) on each first date he goes on, how's he supposed to save anything up?

That's not actually the point though. The point is that her list consisted mostly of superficial stuff. It's not about how much money he spends, it's more about how he treats you, how the two of you interact, what you have in common, how you get along, etc. But none of those kinds of things made her list. Instead of "he must spend $x on our first date" it should have been, "he must make me laugh on our first date" or some such.

Looking back, I think it was a sort of defense mechanism. I'm not married because I can't find the perfect guy who meets my list of impossible criteria. As opposed to, I'm not married because there's something wrong with me. Not that there was anything wrong with her -- that's not what I'm saying. I just think that deep down she probably had self-esteem issues and this was a way for her to make some kind of excuse for why she wasn't married. I'm guessing she'd either been hurt in the past or had had some bad d@ting experiences and this was her way of putting up a boundary and having a reason for not being in a rel@tionship.

As far as lowering your standards, as long as they are the right kind of standards (not superficial ones), then don't do it.

And regarding the idea that someone who is good looking wouldn't be attractive to someone who isn't, that's bogus too. I know couples where one is great looking and the other, not so much. A successful marriage is just so not about looks.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: ilrag on March 07, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
BG: I met this friend through work and although we are complete opposites on most things we managed to still be friends. Shes has decided on doing the internet dating thing, which is fine, but her standards are what I feel are crazy. The guys have to have:
1) Great grammar
2) good looking (and very specific, preferable blond hair, blue eyes, perfect teeth, GQ build etc)
3) Very successful (business owners are a plus)
4) *if they made it this far* must be at her beck and call and must be able to "amuse" her.
5) Must be between age x and y, z's too old
These seem minor like "well yeah, everyone deserves someone like that", but the way its presented is hideously shallow. I hear about these standards and problems while at work via work IM, then get bombarded at home with texts messages or phone calls, all complaints about these men, and how they aren't just right..and its been going on for months.

  The etiquette question: Can you politely tell someone that a) you don't have the looks NOR personality to be that picky and b)Can you politely say "look, until you decide to give an average guy a chance, I don't want to hear about this anymore?".  :o

  If I'm being too snarky please feel free to call me out on it.

I wouldn't say that "everyone deserves some one like that".  How many people like that can really exist?

1. Not too tough, but it's an awkward getting to know you question. 
2. Blonde hair and blue eyes is a pretty small percent of the population.  (Varies with location, clearly)  Same with the build.  Each of those limits the number of dudes you can really be into.  It's more then acceptable to have perferences but that combo can be in short supply.
3. How is success measured?  With happiness or dollar signs?
4. So...they can't work too much? I mean this seems to conflict with the one right before it.
5. Not a tough request, but combined with the rest of these it makes a limited number even smaller. 

How many men that she has dated come close to all of those requirements?
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: shhh its me on March 07, 2012, 02:39:43 PM
   I think one thing you might be able to talk to her about ............it's contradictory to be able to drop everything to be at someones beck and call and to be very successful. Not that it can't happen but it an unusual combination the type of guy who takes calls and interrupts work from the girl he meet on the internet 2-4 weeks ago* , takes long lunches, leaves work because you need a tire changed or help finding your cat and takes off Fridays to have romantic weekends and is also very successful. Being very successful normally means being very committed and very driven.   I don't think this is a criticism of her just a discusion of human nature. I do know successfully people who take every call from their spouse but their spouses either only call in case of dire emergency or call about the same time everyday. I knew people with their owe business who never missed a kids baseball game and took their wife out every Friday , they worked ever Sat and Sun and sometimes to 2 am during the week. I knew someone who only worked  for 2 weeks out of every 8 and was very successful(was about 45 and was a genius in their field , this person did work 70-90 hour weeks for 20 years (before consulting) but would not be interrupted during those 2 weeks for anything short of death.  I think you can reply "Friend how do you expect someone to be successful and be at your beck and call , don't you see a contradiction there?"

I think you can tell her to stop complaining so much about what she doesn't like in a persons profile. Assuming she is.

* I get the impression that there are enough of these disappointments that she is talked about people she recently met?
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 07, 2012, 02:41:30 PM
   I think one thing you might be able to talk to her about ............it's contradictory to be able to drop everything to be at someones beck and call and to be very successful. Not that it can't happen but it an unusual combination the type of guy who takes calls and interrupts work from the girl he meet on the internet 2-4 weeks ago* , takes long lunches, leaves work because you need a tire changed or help finding your cat and takes off Fridays to have romantic weekends and is also very successful. Being very successful normally means being very committed and very driven.   I don't think this is a criticism of her just a discusion of human nature. I do know successfully people who take every call from their spouse but their spouses either only call in case of dire emergency or call about the same time everyday. I knew people with their owe business who never missed a kids baseball game and took their wife out every Friday , they worked ever Sat and Sun and sometimes to 2 am during the week. I knew someone who only worked  for 2 weeks out of every 8 and was very successful(was about 45 and was a genius in their field , this person did work 70-90 hour weeks for 20 years (before consulting) but would not be interrupted during those 2 weeks for anything short of death.  I think you can reply "Friend how do you expect someone to be successful and be at your beck and call , don't you see a contradiction there?"

I think you can tell her to stop complaining so much about what she doesn't like in a persons profile. Assuming she is.

* I get the impression that there are enough of these disappointments that she is talked about people she recently met?

Now that sort of phrasing I wouldn't have a big problem with, and I agree with the bolded.  (But of course with the caveat that you stop if she doesn't appear interested in hearing about the contradictions.)
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 07, 2012, 02:52:53 PM
I remember in college being attracted to one of the guys on the floor (co-ed: two suites each for boys and girls) and he just wasn't all that interested in me romantically, even though we were good friends.  In the end I figured I just wasn't his type, which was okay. But one of my suitemates knew I liked him (well okay, they all did) and she once said "Oh he'd date a stick if it showed interest."

Ouch.  Thanks a heap.  ::)  Meanwhile same suitemate would always whine that men didn't like her cause she was faaaat. So many times I wanted to say "No, honey, men aren't interested in you because of your sour, bitter, man-hating attitude."

I don't think it's a matter of your friend's own looks, just that her ideas of men just aren't realistic.  My bff is a confirmed bachelorette and she'll admit her standards are way too high and particular, but then she's content being single and having her fantasies. :)
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: SisJackson on March 07, 2012, 03:01:44 PM
When it comes to something like this, you can't tell them.  I've tried.  I had a good friend who had a longer laundry list of requirements, and it was much more specific - and she didn't meet most of them herself.

My friend, during her time on the matchmaker site she was on, found that the men she thought were attractive didn't contact her.  The ones that she thought were "below par" were the only ones who did.  She quit and rejoined and quit and rejoined this same site several times for years, always dissatisfied.  She complained that she knew the guys she was attracted to existed; she'd seen them, but always with someone else.  She would never have listened to any reasoning that she needed to be equal to her own standards.

I would never use the word "deserve" when it comes to people.  To me, the word means that you have earned it or have proven yourself worthy of something.  I wouldn't even know how to begin deciding how one goes about earning the right to be with someone hot or wealthy or whatever.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Editeer on March 07, 2012, 03:02:41 PM
The first response that comes to mind is, "It's a d@ting site, not a man vending machine."  >:D

Instead of saying that she doesn't have the looks or personality (however true that may be), you might point out to her that any guys that are that wonderful are not going to be looking for a girlfriend on a dating site.

I would ask her if she wants advice or if she wants to vent about it. If she wants advice, then I'd tell her that she is being unrealistic in her expectations and that she needs to decide if she wants a relationship with a real guy or if she wants a fantasy man that is never going to materialize.


I think this is a good way to handle it. If she says she just wants to vent, then you can tell her that you're willing to listen to a certain amount of venting, but that there needs to be a limit (five minutes a day or whatever works for you).

In fact, you could address the amount of venting even if you decide not to say anything about her expectations.

Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: DavidH on March 07, 2012, 03:10:52 PM
The etiquette question: Can you politely tell someone that a) you don't have the looks NOR personality to be that picky and b)Can you politely say "look, until you decide to give an average guy a chance, I don't want to hear about this anymore?". 

For the former, I don't think there is a polite way to say precisely that, but you might say, have you considered which part of your wish list is really important to you.  You could add, since dating sites can convey only limited information are you presenting yourself in the best possible light.  Maybe add, make sure that your profile is designed to attract that type of guy.

For the second, you could say, it's your right to be very specific, but you greatly limit the pool of available people.  I understand your frustration, but just hearing about it makes me frustrated too.  I think you either need to decide what's really important to you, or not be surprised when the pool of eligible guys is so small.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: purplemuse on March 07, 2012, 03:34:11 PM
I wonder if she would benefit from skipping the online dating... not because "that type of guy" isn't on there, but maybe to get a better feel for what she really considers important.

When you date online (at least on the official dating sites-- I think it's different if you randomly start chatting with someone), it's easy to dismiss someone if they don't look like what you want "on paper," but if you go to a party/bar/church group/book club, and the 5'10 brunet with a mid-range salary makes your heart skip a beat, that's a little harder to ignore.

I mean, it's important to have standards; but actually meeting other people can help you determine what your standards should be to help you find your best match, and sometimes you might even get blindsided by a "type" you never thought you would be interested in.

And maybe her list is what she needs from her "best match," but to me, it kind of reads like the sort of thing we women are "supposed to" want in a man.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 07, 2012, 03:34:23 PM
Courtsmad25, I'm reading one thing -- that your friend won't be able to get the man she wants -- as the issue you're asking us to help you address, but I'm getting the sense that the thing you actually want to address is something different -- that you don't want to hear about her struggles anymore because you think she's doing it wrong.

Now, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I think there's a very easy (or very challenging, depending on your friend's personality) way to address this.

Next time she complains that Peter was just perrrrfect until he wouldn't answer her call at 2 a.m., for example, you say:
"Friend, I know it's tough when a guy doesn't quite measure up. I really want you to be happy, and to find the right guy for you!"
"Thanks! Man, can you believe it? Peter was 6'5" and blond and spelled 'curmudgeonly' correctly on his profile, but when I called him for the 12th time he seemed a little ticked and ..."
"You know, I understand that you're looking for a really specific set of criteria, but I am having a hard time sympathizing right now. It's just hard to hear a good friend get let down by her own expectations time and time again."
"But I only want a perfect guy."
"And I only want to hear about your love life once you've found him! I want to be here for you, but it's getting tough listening to the same old story over and over. I can't keep going through this with you when I see you hurting yourself over and over."
(Ideally)"OK, well, I'll let you know when I go on a second date with someone."
(Or possibly)"You don't care about me!!!"

And you go on from there.

As far as one poster's comment that these sorts of guys don't look for dates online: I don't think that's true. A huge number of people look for dates online these days!

I also don't think the OP's friend's needs are unrealistic just because she's not super pretty or what have you (though the needy parts are unrealistic in my view because needy is not attractive to a mate!); lots of people are 'unequally' matched. But the less you stress about her stress, the happier you'll be! It takes some of us a lot more searching to find a good match than others, but that doesn't mean our standards are wrong.

THIS!!! I was out of state for my father-in-laws funeral and i'm getting texts about so and so canceled their date due to a business meeting and she's mad...I should have said the part of about date "in your level" thing...its not about that honestly.. its the look I've suggested scenarios like "what if he's a social worker and LOVES his job but doesn't make make much money?" and of course the response is "well, I wouldn't want someone that can't pay for XYZ".
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Yvaine on March 07, 2012, 03:57:51 PM
When you date online (at least on the official dating sites-- I think it's different if you randomly start chatting with someone), it's easy to dismiss someone if they don't look like what you want "on paper," but if you go to a party/bar/church group/book club, and the 5'10 brunet with a mid-range salary makes your heart skip a beat, that's a little harder to ignore.

I mean, it's important to have standards; but actually meeting other people can help you determine what your standards should be to help you find your best match, and sometimes you might even get blindsided by a "type" you never thought you would be interested in.

This is a really good point. Online dating has its positives, but I also think it sometimes leads people to rule each other out (based on awkwardly written profiles or unflattering pics or just not ticking off all the right boxes) when if you met in person first, chemistry would have its chance to work.

Meanwhile same suitemate would always whine that men didn't like her cause she was faaaat. So many times I wanted to say "No, honey, men aren't interested in you because of your sour, bitter, man-hating attitude."

This too. I have a friend who thinks that every breakup and rejection she's ever had in her life is because she is overweight--but the thing is, she gets a LOT of initial offers. She's overweight, but she also has gorgeous hair and skin, and is also really fun to talk to, on the surface. What happens when guys get to know her better, though, is that they realize she has huge, huge piles of emotional issues that she isn't really honest with herself about. And it scares people off--but she tells herself it's because of her weight and so never has to examine her attitude.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sophia on March 07, 2012, 04:21:09 PM
I went through this with a friend I asked her: 

Of all the guys you have met in the last year not for dating, just in general
how many met her first criteria?
    (let us pretend it was 20)
How many of those 20 met the second criteria?
    (let us pretend that it was 2)
How many of those two were single?

Then I pointed out the conflicting requirements.  I said, imagine tomorrow you meet a guy that is blondle, blue-eyed, GQ build, owns his own business.  (Wait for the sigh of happiness to be over)  Will that guy have time to (then you bring out the conflicting requirements like) cater to your every whim?  Or will he be busy working out and running his business? 

For another friend (male) who was complaining bitterly that model beautiful woman wouldn't give him the time of day.  I pointed out that they were probably looking for model-beautiful men. 

I met my husband online.  I am glad he ignored my stated requirements.  I wanted someone taller than me just because I've had men shorter than me be annoyed when I wore heels, and I love heels.  I also said I didn't want facial hair because it has always been scratchy and kissing is important.  He has a soft goatee and is the same height, and he loves when I wear heels.  I couldn't be happier. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: RandomAngel on March 07, 2012, 04:34:23 PM
Courtsmad25, I'm reading one thing -- that your friend won't be able to get the man she wants -- as the issue you're asking us to help you address, but I'm getting the sense that the thing you actually want to address is something different -- that you don't want to hear about her struggles anymore because you think she's doing it wrong.

Now, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I think there's a very easy (or very challenging, depending on your friend's personality) way to address this.

Next time she complains that Peter was just perrrrfect until he wouldn't answer her call at 2 a.m., for example, you say:
"Friend, I know it's tough when a guy doesn't quite measure up. I really want you to be happy, and to find the right guy for you!"
"Thanks! Man, can you believe it? Peter was 6'5" and blond and spelled 'curmudgeonly' correctly on his profile, but when I called him for the 12th time he seemed a little ticked and ..."
"You know, I understand that you're looking for a really specific set of criteria, but I am having a hard time sympathizing right now. It's just hard to hear a good friend get let down by her own expectations time and time again."
"But I only want a perfect guy."
"And I only want to hear about your love life once you've found him! I want to be here for you, but it's getting tough listening to the same old story over and over. I can't keep going through this with you when I see you hurting yourself over and over."
(Ideally)"OK, well, I'll let you know when I go on a second date with someone."
(Or possibly)"You don't care about me!!!"

And you go on from there.

As far as one poster's comment that these sorts of guys don't look for dates online: I don't think that's true. A huge number of people look for dates online these days!

I also don't think the OP's friend's needs are unrealistic just because she's not super pretty or what have you (though the needy parts are unrealistic in my view because needy is not attractive to a mate!); lots of people are 'unequally' matched. But the less you stress about her stress, the happier you'll be! It takes some of us a lot more searching to find a good match than others, but that doesn't mean our standards are wrong.

I agree with this. It's really not about who's out there or whom she can attract, which is lucky because just about anything you could say about those would probably wind up being rather insulting. The issue is that you don't want to hear about it, and that's totally valid.

"Friend, I'm sorry, but I need to pull back from the day-to-day of your dating life. I'll be happy to gush over every detail when you've found someone you actually like, but hearing about the guys that DON'T work out so often is honestly dragging me down." Just disengage. "Friend, we talked about this. I don't want to know what each guy did wrong; just let me know when there's someone in your life you feel good about." And then, "Honey, you're doing it again. I'm going to go now; let's catch up on other stuff tomorrow."


On a side note, my dating criteria used to be: over 6', dark hair, light eyes, conventionally handsome with a solid build, excellent spelling, grammar, and vocabulary, a 4-year degree from a school I'd heard of, nonsmoker, alpha male, no previous marriages or children, impeccable manners, financially stable, wicked sense of humor, and no drama. When I met my DH, I realized that I didn't especially care about which of those criteria he DID meet, much less which he didn't. My list was just an excuse to keep potential boyfriends at arms'-length; it had almost nothing to do with my honest deal-breakers or needs from a partner. Your friend may be so wrapped up in finding the perfect man that she hasn't realized yet that she's not ready to meet HER perfect man, and her standards are a subconscious correction mechanism. If so, she'll sort it out...and she won't hear a word of contradiction until she does.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: blarg314 on March 07, 2012, 06:58:19 PM

If you do talk to her about it, don't make it about her not being good enough to attract what she wants. Instead, bring up the statistical improbability of meeting a guy who fulfills her list - incredibly hot, tall, blond-haired blue eyed financially successful single men under X age are pretty rare, and probably don't need to go on-line to find potential dates. If she needs this in a partner, that's up to her, but she has to realize that she's likely going to be waiting a long time, so getting frustrated is counter-productive.

There's other illogic in her requirements. She wants a successful business owner who is willing and able to constantly be on call, providing attention. Does she have no concept of what being a business owner means?  Odds are he's either personally broke, or he's pouring all of his time and energy into keeping the business successful. Maybe she wants a guy who inherited lots of money, and has people to manage things for him.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Allyson on March 07, 2012, 07:55:40 PM
See, I would never tell someone 'lower your standards' or 'settle' because that implies being with someone that you're only sort of into. But, having a laundry list is a problem because it cuts out a lot of people before you've figured out if you are into them or not.

I see a huge, huge difference between 'I will only date blond haired, blue eyed GQ models who cater to my every whim!' and 'I will only date people I am extremely attracted to and who treat me very well'. The first comes off as shallow and a little silly, whereas the second makes perfect sense. Attraction, I find, isn't really about finding someone who matches every item on a list. Your friend could meet her blond blue eyed business owner and feel 'meh'...then end up seriously falling for a redheaded gardener.

But I'm not telling someone they don't deserve a great guy or girl. It's possible that for some people, it might be helpful to broaden their definition of a *possible* great guy or girl. Not actually get involved with someone they aren't very into.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Yvaine on March 07, 2012, 07:58:07 PM
See, I would never tell someone 'lower your standards' or 'settle' because that implies being with someone that you're only sort of into. But, having a laundry list is a problem because it cuts out a lot of people before you've figured out if you are into them or not.

I see a huge, huge difference between 'I will only date blond haired, blue eyed GQ models who cater to my every whim!' and 'I will only date people I am extremely attracted to and who treat me very well'.

This, x1000.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Venus193 on March 07, 2012, 08:00:51 PM
People tell me this sometimes.  It's not a lot of fun hearing that I have neither the looks nor personality to attract a person I'd actually like.

Strangely enough, it doesn't make me think "Wow, you're right!  I need to start wearing makeup and make serious changes to my personality so that I can fake being a girl that guys will be attracted to!"  It also doesn't make me think "Wow, you're right!  I should start dating people I don't respect or like!" 

It actually makes me think "Wow, that person is a jerk.  I'll make sure I don't hang out with her anymore" or in the past, when I was feeling low to begin with, it led to a lot of tears and self-injury.  Good times. 

I'd recommend simply saying that you'd prefer to talk about another subject and direct her away from the dating talk if it bothers you.  Please don't tell her that her looks and personality are lacking.  It will make you feel better, but her feel a lot worse.

This.

That sounds a lot like my life before I became the owner of Heartbreak Hotel.  Nobody seemed to think that I was worthy of an educated man with an elegant wit, a full head of hair, and who appreciated opera and fine dining.

I'm probably not, but I don't worry about it anymore; better alone than with the wrong person.  In any event, nobody forgets how it feels to hear something like this.   Oddly enough, Blanche is still friends with someone who not only said this to her but boinked her then-BF behind her back.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: figee on March 07, 2012, 09:05:43 PM
I was once told by someone who used to be a good friend that I was settling.  this was in front of my now husband, and she was meeting him for the first time.  I have a PhD, he left school at 16.  I look and sound very middle class.  He is career military, not an officer, and has tattoo sleeves complete with some very attractive ladies in various states on undress.  On paper, we are not a match, but he makes me happier than I've ever been before.

I haven't spoken to that woman since that conversation.  However, also as part of that conversation, she outlined what she wanted.  She wanted someone with at least a Masters, who was working in human rights or international aid, who looked like a male model.  She claimed that it was 'unfair' that she knew all of these guys BUT that they were only attracted to slim, stunning Amazons or models - which she decidedly wasn't.  When asked about men who were attracted to her, she said that they weren't educated enough or they all worked in 'right wing' institutions.  Hence me settling.

SAhe didn't like it when I pointed out that the men she wanted were rejecting her for many of the same reasons that she was rejecting other men, and that each was equally unfair.  End of friendship.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: sweetonsno on March 08, 2012, 01:52:00 AM
See, I would never tell someone 'lower your standards' or 'settle' because that implies being with someone that you're only sort of into. But, having a laundry list is a problem because it cuts out a lot of people before you've figured out if you are into them or not.

I see a huge, huge difference between 'I will only date blond haired, blue eyed GQ models who cater to my every whim!' and 'I will only date people I am extremely attracted to and who treat me very well'. The first comes off as shallow and a little silly, whereas the second makes perfect sense. Attraction, I find, isn't really about finding someone who matches every item on a list. Your friend could meet her blond blue eyed business owner and feel 'meh'...then end up seriously falling for a redheaded gardener.

But I'm not telling someone they don't deserve a great guy or girl. It's possible that for some people, it might be helpful to broaden their definition of a *possible* great guy or girl. Not actually get involved with someone they aren't very into.

I totally agree with this, though I don't think there is anything wrong with recognizing that there are traits that you find attractive. Do I have a "type"? Yes, sort of. Have I ever been attracted to someone who was not that "type"? Of course. Does it happen often? No. I don't think I'm superficial because I happen to notice a pattern in the traits that I admire (or find off-putting).

I also think it is important to consider this woman's potential partners. If you tell her that her standards are too high, then you're telling her that she should lower them (if she wants to have a guy). If you tell her that she should lower her standards, you're basically saying that she should go for a guy she's not excited about. This is not only an unfair proposition for her, it's horribly unkind for any potential partners. While it's normal for one person to be more dialed in than the other, it's not normal for one person to be really excited and the other to be thinking "meh" or "ew."

We all deserve to be with someone who excites us and who is excited by us. I think it's very unkind to date someone who likes you simply because you don't want to be alone or because you think it's the best you can do. That person deserves someone who will return their affection and passion.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: weeblewobble on March 08, 2012, 06:45:43 AM
Have you thought about pointing out to her that her list is all about looks and money, but not one thing about how a boyfriend treats her. With the exception that he must "amuse her."

It's OK to draw lines.  It's OK to say, "I won't date a man who enjoys recreational drugs" or "I won't date a man who talks down to me" or "I won't date a man who doesn't call me when he says he will."  And you don't have to date someone you're not attracted to.  But it's hard enough to find someone who you are interested in and is interested in you and treats you nicely, without pre-emptively cutting off a majority of candidates.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 08, 2012, 08:24:29 AM
Thank you guys so much for all of the oppions and viewpoints : I wrote the original post out of anger and frustration and I'm rather ashamed that I wrote this in the first place. Our place of work already has several guidelines on who one should date (for instance no drugs or criminal record) so the rest is just gravy guidelines.

Any idea how to close out topic?
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: TurtleDove on March 08, 2012, 08:32:57 AM
Our place of work already has several guidelines on who one should date

What??????
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: wolfie on March 08, 2012, 09:22:24 AM
See, I would never tell someone 'lower your standards' or 'settle' because that implies being with someone that you're only sort of into. But, having a laundry list is a problem because it cuts out a lot of people before you've figured out if you are into them or not.

I see a huge, huge difference between 'I will only date blond haired, blue eyed GQ models who cater to my every whim!' and 'I will only date people I am extremely attracted to and who treat me very well'. The first comes off as shallow and a little silly, whereas the second makes perfect sense. Attraction, I find, isn't really about finding someone who matches every item on a list. Your friend could meet her blond blue eyed business owner and feel 'meh'...then end up seriously falling for a redheaded gardener.

But I'm not telling someone they don't deserve a great guy or girl. It's possible that for some people, it might be helpful to broaden their definition of a *possible* great guy or girl. Not actually get involved with someone they aren't very into.

I totally agree with this, though I don't think there is anything wrong with recognizing that there are traits that you find attractive. Do I have a "type"? Yes, sort of. Have I ever been attracted to someone who was not that "type"? Of course. Does it happen often? No. I don't think I'm superficial because I happen to notice a pattern in the traits that I admire (or find off-putting).

I also think it is important to consider this woman's potential partners. If you tell her that her standards are too high, then you're telling her that she should lower them (if she wants to have a guy). If you tell her that she should lower her standards, you're basically saying that she should go for a guy she's not excited about. This is not only an unfair proposition for her, it's horribly unkind for any potential partners. While it's normal for one person to be more dialed in than the other, it's not normal for one person to be really excited and the other to be thinking "meh" or "ew."

We all deserve to be with someone who excites us and who is excited by us. I think it's very unkind to date someone who likes you simply because you don't want to be alone or because you think it's the best you can do. That person deserves someone who will return their affection and passion.

I think there is a difference between "you should settle" and "you should expand your options". Like a previous poster who said one of her dealbreakers was people needed to be great spellers, and then she met someone who couldn't spell well but made her happy. So she shouldn't settle for someone she isn't attracted to but she should reconsider wether her deal breakers are actually dealbreakers or just nice to haves. Or maybe just too specific - she said "has to spell well" maybe what she really wanted was someone who could communicate well but was thinking of a specific example without realizing that it wasn't the specific that she wanted, but what it implied about the person.

The more dealbreakers you have the harder it is to meet someone who meets them all - and then out of that pool you have to find someone who also finds you attractive and you meet all of their dealbreakers. If you are satisfied that you would only be happy if all these conditions are met and you might never meet someone like that then good for you and best of luck. Everyone deserves to be with someone who makes them happy and I hope you find your person.

But if you aren't - if you really aren't okay with being alone then you should take a look at your dealbreaker and see if they are really something you need to be happy or are they just your ideal - like the blond hair blue eyes. That is an ideal but could a brown haired, brown eyed person be just as good as long as they meet your other criteria? And then you should look at the ones that are what people do - like the business owner. Do you really want a business owner or are you working on the idea that a business owner is hardworking and driven? In that case you can expand your options to people who are hardworking and driven but don't actually own a business. And if you look at all your criteria and decide the person has to be blond, blue eyed and a business owner - noone else will do - and you aren't okay with the idea that you might never meet this person you should see a counselor to help because I don't know what else you could do.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Reason on March 08, 2012, 09:29:01 AM
Our place of work already has several guidelines on who one should date

What??????

Ditto.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Yvaine on March 08, 2012, 09:32:10 AM
Our place of work already has several guidelines on who one should date

What??????

Ditto.

I am guessing she works in one of the professions where it is frowned upon to be involved with someone with a criminal record.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: wyliefool on March 08, 2012, 09:41:19 AM
Quote
THIS!!! I was out of state for my father-in-laws funeral and i'm getting texts about so and so canceled their date due to a business meeting and she's mad...I should have said the part of about date "in your level" thing...its not about that honestly.. its the look I've suggested scenarios like "what if he's a social worker and LOVES his job but doesn't make make much money?" and of course the response is "well, I wouldn't want someone that can't pay for XYZ".

See, this right here would have me telling her that if she doesn't knock it off her ringtone is being changed to silent. Who needs to be bothered all the time by someone whining about their love life? Especially when she's being so shallow about it. You want xyz? buy it yourself!
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: cheyne on March 08, 2012, 09:41:40 AM
Thank you guys so much for all of the oppions and viewpoints : I wrote the original post out of anger and frustration and I'm rather ashamed that I wrote this in the first place. Our place of work already has several guidelines on who one should date (for instance no drugs or criminal record) so the rest is just gravy guidelines.

Any idea how to close out topic?

You cannot end the topic on that note!   >:D
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: TurtleDove on March 08, 2012, 10:10:55 AM
I am guessing she works in one of the professions where it is frowned upon to be involved with someone with a criminal record.

Sure, but to issue guidelines about whom employees can date is insane.  Perhaps if this is the CIA or something, but otherwise WHAT?????? 

I know in my career as a professional gangster rapper I am actually encouraged to date drug users with extensive criminal records!
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: ilrag on March 08, 2012, 11:13:20 AM
There's a lot of jobs in the world where you need a background check of various levels.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on March 08, 2012, 11:15:22 AM
It's not insane at all.  There are people I can't even go have lunch with, let alone date.  Conflict of interest.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 08, 2012, 11:34:06 AM
There's a lot of jobs in the world where you need a background check of various levels.

Yep, we work with high level stuff therefore in order to maintain your clearance you have to be squeeky clean and there can be issues if your associated with a not so great person..If your known to hang out with John Doe, and he gets busted selling drugs, you too will be tested and watched...and if your caught WITH John Doe while he's selling drugs your career is over.

I too have to watch it with the conflict stuff Lorelei_Evil
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Winterlight on March 08, 2012, 12:59:06 PM
I think what you're trying to say is not so much "lower your standards" and more "you need to be realistic." She wants perfect, and perfect is never going to happen. Maybe what she should be looking for is "perfect for her."
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 08, 2012, 04:29:33 PM
I think what you're trying to say is not so much "lower your standards" and more "you need to be realistic." She wants perfect, and perfect is never going to happen. Maybe what she should be looking for is "perfect for her."
;D Ohhhhhh thank you, THAT is probably the best way to put it.. She slowed down about them today..(which is one reason why the guilt)..but that is a really good way to phrase the pep talk.

I <3 you E-hellions!
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: violinp on March 08, 2012, 08:41:36 PM
I think what you're trying to say is not so much "lower your standards" and more "you need to be realistic." She wants perfect, and perfect is never going to happen. Maybe what she should be looking for is "perfect for her."

POD. I could sit on my rear and hope for a Jared Padalecki lookalike who rescues infants and kittens for a living, but that isn't going to ever happen. However, there are loads of so - called "normal" guys who are out there and will treat me the way I deserve to be treated.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Two Ravens on March 08, 2012, 08:53:02 PM
I think what you're trying to say is not so much "lower your standards" and more "you need to be realistic." She wants perfect, and perfect is never going to happen. Maybe what she should be looking for is "perfect for her."

POD. I could sit on my rear and hope for a Jared Padalecki lookalike who rescues infants and kittens for a living, but that isn't going to ever happen. However, there are loads of so - called "normal" guys who are out there and will treat me the way I deserve to be treated.

Ha Ha! I hear you on the "Jared Padalecki lookalike" (even though I think he was cuter before he lost all the baby fat in his face!).

I has a good friend who once told a long suffering guy friend - "Jack, did you ever think that there is a reason why Gisele BŁndchen married Tom Brady instead of you?"
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: violinp on March 08, 2012, 08:55:03 PM
I think what you're trying to say is not so much "lower your standards" and more "you need to be realistic." She wants perfect, and perfect is never going to happen. Maybe what she should be looking for is "perfect for her."

POD. I could sit on my rear and hope for a Jared Padalecki lookalike who rescues infants and kittens for a living, but that isn't going to ever happen. However, there are loads of so - called "normal" guys who are out there and will treat me the way I deserve to be treated.

Ha Ha! I hear you on the "Jared Padalecki lookalike" (even though I think he was cuter before he lost all the baby fat in his face!).

I has a good friend who once told a long suffering guy friend - "Jack, did you ever think that there is a reason why Gisele BŁndchen married Tom Brady instead of you?"

 ;D
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Allyson on March 08, 2012, 09:21:52 PM
I had another thought about this...I find that people can be offputting in how they express what they want in a partner, by tearing down people who don't fit their criteria. It's the difference between, "Oh, I'm just not attracted to her/him" and "Ugh, what a loser/ugly person, how could they think I would date them". Some of the people who are very proud of having extremely high 'standards' can come off as really not nice to people who don't fit them.

Not being romantically interested in someone doesn't mean I get to talk about them like they're worthless. I think that's part of my problem with saying 'I have extremely high standards and a specific list of criteria' instead of 'I'm looking for someone who's perfect for me, who I am extremely excited about'. Sort of relates to the thread I started about the phrase 'too good for him/her'. The idea of some people being objective '8/10' or whatever is offputting to me.

I hope I'm making at least a little bit of sense. I just dislike the idea of 'ranking' people in that way. What's a great guy for me might not be at all great for someone else, and so on. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Two Ravens on March 08, 2012, 09:33:35 PM
I had another thought about this...I find that people can be offputting in how they express what they want in a partner, by tearing down people who don't fit their criteria. It's the difference between, "Oh, I'm just not attracted to her/him" and "Ugh, what a loser/ugly person, how could they think I would date them". Some of the people who are very proud of having extremely high 'standards' can come off as really not nice to people who don't fit them.

Not being romantically interested in someone doesn't mean I get to talk about them like they're worthless. I think that's part of my problem with saying 'I have extremely high standards and a specific list of criteria' instead of 'I'm looking for someone who's perfect for me, who I am extremely excited about'. Sort of relates to the thread I started about the phrase 'too good for him/her'. The idea of some people being objective '8/10' or whatever is offputting to me.

I hope I'm making at least a little bit of sense. I just dislike the idea of 'ranking' people in that way. What's a great guy for me might not be at all great for someone else, and so on.

Well, I think some people probably have a problem with deciding who is exciting based on a first impression.  If you'd asked me what my opinion was of my husband 10 minutes after we had met, I probably would have said " No thanks".  11 years later, we've been happily married for seven years.  Sometimes it pays to give people a chance.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 08, 2012, 10:01:23 PM
And other times, your first instincts are right and it gets pretty exhausting when people ask you to give someone a chance when you know there's nothing about the person you like. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Venus193 on March 08, 2012, 10:08:51 PM
Most of the people who tried to get me to "settle" had done so themselves.  I think it was a case of "misery loves company."
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Aeris on March 08, 2012, 10:29:11 PM
Most of the people who tried to get me to "settle" had done so themselves.  I think it was a case of "misery loves company."

I think one of the semantical things that makes these conversations hard (here, and in RL with friends) is the relationship between 'settling' and 'compromising'. (Or perhaps even just 'bad compromising of values' and 'good compromising as an adult with other adults', if that makes sense).

For instance, if Jane decided that Prince Charming on a White Horse was not realistic, and decided to give 'normal guy Joe' a shot, and found she really liked him and felt great with him, her friend Mary might think she was just 'settling'. Mary might think it was sad that Jane had 'downgraded' her ideal vision of a potential mate, and even that Jane was pathetic for putting so high a value on 'just being with someone, anyone'. And perhaps that's true of Jane - or perhaps she found that giving normal guy Joe a chance made her happier than she ever could have thought she'd be.

On the flip - Jane could think that Mary was unrealistic in refusing to even consider a guy unless they met a laundry list of requirements, and that it was sad that Mary was cutting herself off from the potential happiness she could find dating a normal person. She could even think that Mary was being rigid and immature about refusing to consider anything but a virtual Adonis. And perhaps she'd be right about Mary - or perhaps Mary simply knows that she would be far happier alone than with someone who didn't meet her standards, which she doesn't actually think are so out of this world unrealistic.

What does it mean to 'settle'? What does it mean to make adult and rational 'compromises'?

I have friends all over the spectrum of this.

Jenna - a good friend who I would absolutely say has 'settled', in all the worst senses of that word. She is/was absolutely so obsessed with being with a guy, any guy, rightnowrightnowrightnow, that she stays in a horrible relationship with a guy who makes her feel like crap and quite literally has no redeeming qualities that anyone can fathom.

Mark - will only consider guys who meet a ridiculous list of insane and unrealistic characteristics. Won't cut potential mates the slack or benefit of the doubt that he expects them to give him. They are supposed to see past all his idiosyncrasies and flaws to get to know the 'real him', but will not do the same for them. Also constantly bemoans not being able to get a boyfriend and everyone else's coupledom.

Jenna thinks Mark is being immature and unrealistic. Mark thinks Jenna dropped her standards into the sewers. I think they're both right.

Of course, Jenna thinks everyone should be grateful a guy is willing to be with them, ever - which drives us all batty. And Mark thinks all of us have settled at one point or another just because someone we're with is human with human flaws, which also drives us all batty.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: diesel_darlin on March 08, 2012, 10:35:32 PM
I am a big girl, and I am also really tall. Being large sized, I have always went for the bigger guys. I used to be horribly picky about this because I always thought it would be incredibly uncomfortable for me to be with a guy half my size and/or shorter than me.

 A couple of guys I used to work with kept telling me that one of my other co workers had a crush on me. Co worker is about 140# soaking wet, and around 5'7" which is several inches shorter than me.  I didn't give it much thought for a while, but they were quite persistent in telling me that I needed to talk to this guy. (we had a pretty laid back environment and dating co workers was not against the rules)
 After a few weeks of this, I finally caught co worker outside of work and chatted him up. I wasn't the least bit attracted to him, but I figured what the hey, maybe I'll at least gain a new friend out of the deal.


Our 2nd wedding anniversary is in July.  :)


I am by no means suggesting that your friend should settle, but I am suggesting that she open her mind to a wider variety of guys. Money isn't everything, and it certainly cant buy happiness. Hubby and I are broke, but we are happy.


Venus, my sister is just like Jenna. My BIL treats her like crap, but she is determined to be married, to somebody, ANYbody.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: blarg314 on March 09, 2012, 12:09:19 AM

I think, too, that there's a difference between refusing to settle and being unrealistic about the likelihood of meeting someone who fits your criteria.

Attraction aside, the more specific your list is, the smaller the pool of potential dates, and the less likely you are to meet someone. Say your list is "male, makes more than $150,000 a year, above 6'2", blond hair, blue eyes, between the ages of 35 and 40, never married, Baptist".  Taking US statistics, and assuming the variables are independent**, that means that approximately 0.000006% of the population fits your criteria.  In a city of 20 million people, an average of 1 man will fit all of your requirements.  Then you still have to find them, be attracted to them, and have them be attracted to you.

So there's nothing wrong with having a very detailed, specific list, as long as you recognize that the price you pay for that is a significantly smaller probability of actually meeting someone.  Along with that goes not complaining too much to friends that you can't meet anyone good, when the main reason you don't is your list of requirements.

**The variables won't totally be statistically independent, but I'm not going to work out the details now. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: greencat on March 09, 2012, 03:07:54 AM
I had the "you need to do some work on yourself to attract the kind of guy you want" conversation with a VERY good friend...did not go well.  Do not attempt.  Other friend that does that I just bean-dip like crazy.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: hobish on March 09, 2012, 03:25:45 AM
Most of the people who tried to get me to "settle" had done so themselves.  I think it was a case of "misery loves company."

Gish and I prefer to think of it as "Who else would have us?"  ;)

Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: RandomAngel on March 09, 2012, 03:38:26 AM

I think, too, that there's a difference between refusing to settle and being unrealistic about the likelihood of meeting someone who fits your criteria.

Attraction aside, the more specific your list is, the smaller the pool of potential dates, and the less likely you are to meet someone. Say your list is "male, makes more than $150,000 a year, above 6'2", blond hair, blue eyes, between the ages of 35 and 40, never married, Baptist".  Taking US statistics, and assuming the variables are independent**, that means that approximately 0.000006% of the population fits your criteria.  In a city of 20 million people, an average of 1 man will fit all of your requirements.  Then you still have to find them, be attracted to them, and have them be attracted to you.

So there's nothing wrong with having a very detailed, specific list, as long as you recognize that the price you pay for that is a significantly smaller probability of actually meeting someone.  Along with that goes not complaining too much to friends that you can't meet anyone good, when the main reason you don't is your list of requirements.

**The variables won't totally be statistically independent, but I'm not going to work out the details now.

This. People's standards, requirements, and deal-breakers are their own business, and it's really none of anyone else's to "help" them by trying to change their minds. Constantly moaning about it is the faux pas here, not the type of guy she wants to date. And that you CAN politely address.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Venus193 on March 09, 2012, 05:36:23 AM
Aeris:

Quote
Jenna thinks Mark is being immature and unrealistic. Mark thinks Jenna dropped her standards into the sewers. I think they're both right.

Of course, Jenna thinks everyone should be grateful a guy is willing to be with them, ever - which drives us all batty. And Mark thinks all of us have settled at one point or another just because someone we're with is human with human flaws, which also drives us all batty.

Aeris, my own family used to say what Jenna thinks.  My late brother used to say "You should accept your first marriage proposal because you'd be lucky to get any."  Granted, he said crap like this at the age of 12, but one never forgets this.  My own mother thought it was a rude comment, but I think after a while she thought the same thing.  I think she was afraid I could attract a better quality of man in the long run (assuming that any man was able to take a pass on beauty).
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: fountainof on March 09, 2012, 07:50:05 AM
Like others have said I think it is hard to say anything that won't come off as rude.  Looking at the list it isn't so bad, I think the catering to her is the only criteria that is over the top.  I think we all have our lists and if you really want/need to get married asap you may be willing to compromise more.  I know for me I would never have married someone with no long-term good job prospects or someone less intelligent than me.  I would never have married anyone where we would struggle financially for ever as I believe financial security is the number one priority in life and happiness, love, etc. are what then follows. 

I think her complaining is the issue and you can address that.

ETA: Yikes, I use the word intelligent and then cannot spell  :D
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: camlan on March 09, 2012, 07:57:50 AM
I had an acquaintance who had a very strict list of qualities he was looking for in a wife. (Not girlfriend, he really wanted to get married.) She had to be vegan, a member of a specific religion which is a minority religion in the US, had to work for a non-profit organization, had to like dogs, had to want kids.

None of which is particularly unreasonable, but put all together--there just aren't that many women in the US who would fit all these criteria. It definately got annoying, listening to him moan and groan all the time about how he couldn't even meet a woman he could date just once.

In the end, one of his good male friends sat down with him and discussed all his criteria, from the point of view of figuring out why that criteria was important to him. Take religion--was it absolutely necessary for her to practice this one, particular religion, or could this mythical woman practice another religion with similar values? Was it the religion itself, or the values and morals that this religion, and several others, preached? Was it very important that she work for a non-profit? Or did he see someone who would work for a non-profit as more giving and more socially responsible? And was it possible that someone could work in a corporate environment and still have those values?

He was an intelligent guy and could see the reasoning behind this. And he did loosen up a bit and after a few years managed to find someone he fell in love with. She's a vegetarian, not vegan; she was willing to convert to his religion; and she is a nurse.

In this guy's case, he was using his criteria because he thought they would lead him to a certain type of person. Once he was able to see beyond the specifics to the general principles behind them, he was able to find a life partner.

Unfortunately, I think the young woman in the OP is looking for Prince Charming and I'm not sure he really exists.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: DavidH on March 09, 2012, 10:22:45 AM
I think one option is to say that if after a year, two years, etc, you haven't met anyone who meets your criteria you need to ask yourself why.  When I say meet, I don't mean get married, etc, but even go out with.

One option could be you're looking in the wrong place.  For example, if you want to meet someone who practices a certain religion, maybe try to look on religious dating sites or through a religious group rather than a general site. 

Another option is that the criteria are too specific.  So if you say they have to be between 6' and 6'2" tall, ask yourself if you'd consider someone who's 5'11" to broaden the pool.  Another option is to ask yourself which criteria are critical and which are nice to have.  Is it critical that they are blond, or could you be attracted to someone with brown hair.  On the other hand, if you differ on basic values, that is probably a place where you need to hold firm. 

Settling carries a connotation of you really could and should have done better.  I don't think saying that on reflection some criteria you initially thought were important might not actually be that critical is the same thing.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: sweetonsno on March 09, 2012, 02:01:48 PM
I think what you're trying to say is not so much "lower your standards" and more "you need to be realistic." She wants perfect, and perfect is never going to happen. Maybe what she should be looking for is "perfect for her."

Thanks, Winterlight. I think this is a nice way of looking at it. The notion that someone should lower their standards rubs me the wrong way, just like the notion that someone can be "out of your league." I object to the insinuation that there people who are "high quality" and those who are "low quality" and that someone else's preferences and perceptions should determine mine.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sophia on March 09, 2012, 02:56:36 PM
I don't know.  Some characteristics are considered more desirable than others.  No one says, "I want a poor, ugly guy with no sense of humor". 

I have thought less of someone (in my case it has always been a guy) who moans to me, "Why doesn't that stunningly beautiful woman want to date me?"  She should look beyond my looks to the great guy I am."  (sidenote, not that great)  Me, "Do you know anything about her beyond her looks?"  Him, "No". 
Sorry, but if you are generally considered to be 3 on a 10 point scale, don't hold out for a 9 unless you have a lot of something else to offer - like money. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Aeris on March 09, 2012, 04:44:07 PM
I don't know.  Some characteristics are considered more desirable than others.  No one says, "I want a poor, ugly guy with no sense of humor". 

I have thought less of someone (in my case it has always been a guy) who moans to me, "Why doesn't that stunningly beautiful woman want to date me?"  She should look beyond my looks to the great guy I am."  (sidenote, not that great)  Me, "Do you know anything about her beyond her looks?"  Him, "No". 
Sorry, but if you are generally considered to be 3 on a 10 point scale, don't hold out for a 9 unless you have a lot of something else to offer - like money.

Ugh. I know guys like this.

"Well what about <that other girl who's maybe a 5 on the hottie scale>?"
"Nah, I'm not attracted to her" (Note he's always 'not attracted' to anyone under a 9.  ::) )
"So, you want model girl over there to look beyond your looks and get to know the real you, but you have no interest in looking beyond the reasonably attractive girls looks to get to know the real her...."

::headdesk::
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Corvid on March 09, 2012, 05:17:20 PM
Ha Ha! I hear you on the "Jared Padalecki lookalike" (even though I think he was cuter before he lost all the baby fat in his face!).

I miss the bangs.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Lady Snowdon on March 09, 2012, 09:21:56 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't try and talk to your friend about her standards at all in any way.  Those talks go nowhere, and in a really bad way.  No matter how you try and phrase it, and what your intentions are, most people are going to hear, "I know better than you how to live your life".  That really makes people go on the defensive. 

It sounds to me as though you really just want her to stop complaining and whining and moaning she's doing about her dating problems.  What I would do in that case is deflect and give her no sympathy.  Comments like  "I've been out of the dating pool for so long that I don't know how I could possibly help you with what's going on" or "I never met any guys who fit your criteria when I was dating; I'm not sure I'm the person to talk to about it" don't give her anything.  If you've been sympathetic in the past, pulling back and stonewalling her a bit may give her the hint that you're not the person to come to with all these complaints. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 10, 2012, 03:44:10 PM
Most of the people who tried to get me to "settle" had done so themselves.  I think it was a case of "misery loves company."

I get those too -- and their opposite, which is the couples who are in the honeymoon stage and so crazy in love that they think everyone else has to be, no matter what, right now, with any potential mate passing by on the street.  Fortunately they usually calm down a bit later on in their relationship ;D


Gish and I prefer to think of it as "Who else would have us?"  ;)


Hah!  I love it. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Twik on March 10, 2012, 03:50:09 PM
I have no suggestions, just a story.

A long time ago (I hate to admit how long) my college roommate was rhapsodizing about the man who she would, eventually, meet and marry - he would be tall, of course, and handsome, with a deep sexy voice. Well educated, and interested in all the things that she was. And money - plenty of money. They would spend their days cruising on his yacht, yada yada yada.

I said, "I'm just hoping for one who isn't into football."

She made a face. "You'll never find anyone if you're not flexible enough to accept them for who they are," she told me.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Venus193 on March 10, 2012, 04:14:15 PM
There actually are men who aren't into football.  Blanche's ex-husband and my last love were two of them.  However, I have no idea where to hunt for more like them.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Allyson on March 10, 2012, 06:37:56 PM
Neither my current guy or my ex liked football, or any sports at all. They're both self-identified, geeks though (as am I!) So maybe it's football or video games...:D
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Venus193 on March 10, 2012, 07:21:24 PM
Or fencing.  That's what Blanche's ex and my lost love had in common.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Lady Snowdon on March 10, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
Neither my current guy or my ex liked football, or any sports at all. They're both self-identified, geeks though (as am I!) So maybe it's football or video games...:D

Sadly, you can find guys who are both into football AND video games.  I should know, I'm married to one!
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: blarg314 on March 10, 2012, 11:51:18 PM
I don't know.  Some characteristics are considered more desirable than others.  No one says, "I want a poor, ugly guy with no sense of humor". 

I have thought less of someone (in my case it has always been a guy) who moans to me, "Why doesn't that stunningly beautiful woman want to date me?"  She should look beyond my looks to the great guy I am."  (sidenote, not that great)  Me, "Do you know anything about her beyond her looks?"  Him, "No". 
Sorry, but if you are generally considered to be 3 on a 10 point scale, don't hold out for a 9 unless you have a lot of something else to offer - like money.


There is definitely something grating about someone who is demanding something in a partner that they cannot provide themselves.  So when a not very attractive, kind of slobby guy moans that the really hot young women aren't interested in them, he's demanding both that his date be physically very attractive when he's not, and that she be able to appreciate his inner beauty, when he isn't willing to grant the same thing to not so hot women. IN that case, I find myself wanting to smack them, and tell them that women are allowed to be just as shallow as he is, and it's not their fault he isn't smoking hot and rich.

That's a very different situation than someone telling you to take the first thing that comes along because you're unlikely to do better.


Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: SisJackson on March 11, 2012, 01:45:26 AM
Neither my current guy or my ex liked football, or any sports at all. They're both self-identified, geeks though (as am I!) So maybe it's football or video games...:D

Sadly, you can find guys who are both into football AND video games.  I should know, I'm married to one!

Me too, but I don't care for football, so I've laid down the edict that if he's going to watch football he has to actually watch football and not play World of Warcraft - and vice versa; if he's playing his game then I get the TV for whatever I want to watch, even if it's one of my crime dramas he pretends to hate.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Surianne on March 11, 2012, 05:00:19 PM
I said, "I'm just hoping for one who isn't into football."

She made a face. "You'll never find anyone if you're not flexible enough to accept them for who they are," she told me.

That story made me LOL for real  ;D  If you find two guys who aren't into football, can you send the spare to me? 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sophia on March 11, 2012, 10:58:30 PM
My mother told me to not even look.  She found one, my Dad.  They married and were stationed in Germany.  They didn't have a TV, didn't miss it.  They move back to the states near hometowns, still didn't miss it.  They were young and active.  No football watching.  Relatives were so shocked of their TV-less state that they got together and gifted them a TV.  A month later Dad was eating Doritoes while watching football. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Twik on March 11, 2012, 11:59:16 PM
Actually, I think my chances of finding a man who doesn't care terribly much about football is much better than hers of finding a millionaire model with world-class love-making skills. But what do I know?
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Raintree on March 12, 2012, 12:53:56 AM
Come to Canada. I don't know that many guys who are into football. They are all obsessed with hockey!
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Ida on March 12, 2012, 01:12:13 AM
I'll admit I'm still scratching my head over OP's friend's "standards." (Funny thing, the shades of meaning a word can take on.) Those seem more like the breed standards one sees in connection with dog shows than anything to which the word "high" might reasonably be applied.

I'm thinking that if the OP'sF is willing to ~lower~ at least one of her standards and settle for brown eyes she'd do well with a purebred golden retriever.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: MacadamiaNut on March 12, 2012, 03:28:25 AM
I don't know.  Some characteristics are considered more desirable than others.  No one says, "I want a poor, ugly guy with no sense of humor". 

I have thought less of someone (in my case it has always been a guy) who moans to me, "Why doesn't that stunningly beautiful woman want to date me?"  She should look beyond my looks to the great guy I am."  (sidenote, not that great)  Me, "Do you know anything about her beyond her looks?"  Him, "No". 
Sorry, but if you are generally considered to be 3 on a 10 point scale, don't hold out for a 9 unless you have a lot of something else to offer - like money.

Ugh. I know guys like this.

"Well what about <that other girl who's maybe a 5 on the hottie scale>?"
"Nah, I'm not attracted to her" (Note he's always 'not attracted' to anyone under a 9.  ::) )
"So, you want model girl over there to look beyond your looks and get to know the real you, but you have no interest in looking beyond the reasonably attractive girls looks to get to know the real her...."

::headdesk::

Double Ugh!!  This kind of thinking really bothers me.  As soon as I discover a guy is ONLY into looks, I get completely turned off by him.  The sad part is, even if the so-called 9 dated him, he would be so focused on her looks alone that I can't imagine she'd want to stay with someone who so severely lacked in depth.

OP, I agree with everyone who says to stay clear from saying, "lower your standards" but one thing you could point out to her is that when it happens , she will know.  The list of criteria doesn't really matter.  When I look back at all my boyfriends, no two are anything alike but for one factor: Butterflies and excitement. (ok, maybe that's two factors  ;))
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sharnita on March 12, 2012, 05:29:41 AM
There actually are men who aren't into football.  Blanche's ex-husband and my last love were two of them.  However, I have no idea where to hunt for more like them.

THe further north you go  - they are into hocey instead but football tends to be less of a thing.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: weeblewobble on March 12, 2012, 06:03:50 AM
Actually, I think my chances of finding a man who doesn't care terribly much about football is much better than hers of finding a millionaire model with world-class love-making skills. But what do I know?

I want to have this made into a bumper sticker.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: camlan on March 12, 2012, 07:33:38 AM
If it's not football, it's hockey. Or basketball. Or baseball. Or soccer. Or lacrosse, golf, bowling.

Or all of them. Most of the guys I know follow whatever sport is being played that season. There is always a big game coming up, or on, or just over that needs to be discussed or watched.

A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

And when she watched her favorite sport, figure skating? Did she expect him to keep her company then? Well, she might want him there, but he would leave the house.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Venus193 on March 12, 2012, 08:39:33 AM
If it's not football, it's hockey. Or basketball. Or baseball. Or soccer. Or lacrosse, golf, bowling.

Or all of them. Most of the guys I know follow whatever sport is being played that season. There is always a big game coming up, or on, or just over that needs to be discussed or watched.

A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

And when she watched her favorite sport, figure skating? Did she expect him to keep her company then? Well, she might want him there, but he would leave the house.

That sounds depressingly familiar.  A former boyfriend was like this and refused to understand that I didn't enjoy sports.  What's more he was into all of them and the seasons overlap.  In retrospect I'm grateful that my neighborhood didn't have cable yet because there would have been no relief whatsoever.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: wolfie on March 12, 2012, 09:41:05 AM
If it's not football, it's hockey. Or basketball. Or baseball. Or soccer. Or lacrosse, golf, bowling.

Or all of them. Most of the guys I know follow whatever sport is being played that season. There is always a big game coming up, or on, or just over that needs to be discussed or watched.

A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

And when she watched her favorite sport, figure skating? Did she expect him to keep her company then? Well, she might want him there, but he would leave the house.

I know a lot of guys who are not into any sports at all.  When someone had a superbowl party they had to post " We WILL be watching the game" because the majority of the invited would have asked to do something else - in previous superbowl parties the game was background to other activities.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: hobish on March 12, 2012, 09:55:01 AM
Neither my current guy or my ex liked football, or any sports at all. They're both self-identified, geeks though (as am I!) So maybe it's football or video games...:D

Sadly, you can find guys who are both into football AND video games.  I should know, I'm married to one!

Happily, you can also find women who are into both football AND video games. Ask me how i know this.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: camlan on March 12, 2012, 09:55:24 AM
If it's not football, it's hockey. Or basketball. Or baseball. Or soccer. Or lacrosse, golf, bowling.

Or all of them. Most of the guys I know follow whatever sport is being played that season. There is always a big game coming up, or on, or just over that needs to be discussed or watched.

A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

And when she watched her favorite sport, figure skating? Did she expect him to keep her company then? Well, she might want him there, but he would leave the house.

I know a lot of guys who are not into any sports at all.  When someone had a superbowl party they had to post " We WILL be watching the game" because the majority of the invited would have asked to do something else - in previous superbowl parties the game was background to other activities.

I would like to meet some of these guys. I know, on a purely intellectual level, that they must exist. The law of average says that they exist.

But in my world, all my brothers, all my male cousins, all my male co-workers, all my male friends--they are all fixated on sports. Maybe not all of them on every single sport, but enough of them. This upcoming weekend is a big one for college basketball and I know of two all-weekend, all-basketball parties/sleepovers being planned. These are guys (and a few gals) in their 40s and 50s.

I think I will be hanging around the library, hoping to meet a bookish sort of guy.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: wolfie on March 12, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
If it's not football, it's hockey. Or basketball. Or baseball. Or soccer. Or lacrosse, golf, bowling.

Or all of them. Most of the guys I know follow whatever sport is being played that season. There is always a big game coming up, or on, or just over that needs to be discussed or watched.

A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

And when she watched her favorite sport, figure skating? Did she expect him to keep her company then? Well, she might want him there, but he would leave the house.

I know a lot of guys who are not into any sports at all.  When someone had a superbowl party they had to post " We WILL be watching the game" because the majority of the invited would have asked to do something else - in previous superbowl parties the game was background to other activities.

I would like to meet some of these guys. I know, on a purely intellectual level, that they must exist. The law of average says that they exist.

But in my world, all my brothers, all my male cousins, all my male co-workers, all my male friends--they are all fixated on sports. Maybe not all of them on every single sport, but enough of them. This upcoming weekend is a big one for college basketball and I know of two all-weekend, all-basketball parties/sleepovers being planned. These are guys (and a few gals) in their 40s and 50s.

I think I will be hanging around the library, hoping to meet a bookish sort of guy.

We are having a party this Sunday so if you are in the upstate NY area I could introduce you to some! :-)
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: #borecore on March 12, 2012, 10:41:54 AM
My boyfriend and all of our friends are 99% uninterested in sports. We don't mind exercising, or watching our friends run a marathon or something, but I'm pretty sure they couldn't name 5 NFL teams under pressure!

I worked in sports for 5 years (and had a football-loving BF for more than 2 of those) and my current group looks at me like I have three heads when I start talking about it -- and I don't like sports either, I just know about them and think some degree of cultural literacy is important.

That said, my standards include respect, and when I dated a man who did love football and basketball, he was respectful of my time and interests -- and we found a mutual, new interest in soccer.

Anyway, I don't think setting a standard of "must not give a flip about the NFL" is unreasonable (if harsh -- perhaps "must not watch every game every week" is more fair), but I do think "must never spend 3 hours on a Saturday doing something I'm uninterested in" (be it football or video games or crochet) is unreasonable.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Twik on March 12, 2012, 10:48:43 AM
Actually, I have no problem with people watching football, I just wouldn't want to be involved with someone who takes it to extremes - "We CAN'T go to Little Bobby's graduation! There's a critical game on!"

Besides, as a Canadian, I must assume that everyone's true, first love is hockey, eh? ( ;))
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: courtsmad25 on March 12, 2012, 12:09:52 PM
My husband is a sports nut, and that's OK... one of the things he did at out house was put a TV, with cable, on top of the fridge so he could watch sportscenter while he cooks! At first I thought he was crazy  :o but in reality, he cooks well, cleans and I'm off playing on facebook while he's watching sportscenter? Its PERFECT! Just the right about of personal space, besides Law & order is normally on in the room where I'm hanging out in.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on March 12, 2012, 12:14:18 PM
A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

The husband of one of my coworkers likes to watch NASCAR.  Coworker calls it NAPCAR.  He just laughs, because sometimes, he falls asleep, too.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Twik on March 12, 2012, 12:52:23 PM
Hah - my father used to do that on weekends. "THere's a big game on, can't wai ... zzzzzz".
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sophia on March 12, 2012, 01:05:21 PM
What drives me over the edge is when DH NEEDS to watch a football game that isn't from this century
Him:  But it's gooooodddd game!
Me:  Well, you already know the score, therefore no one can spoil it for you.  So let's go to the restaurant. 
Him:  But, but...
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Winterlight on March 12, 2012, 01:59:37 PM
Sophia, are you secretly my mom? Because my dad does this- now that he finally broke down and got cable he's rewatching all sorts of really old games.

Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sophia on March 12, 2012, 02:56:01 PM
No, unless my 20 month old angel is even more amazing than I think she is. Unfortunately, my DH and your Dad aren't unique which is why they show these #$#%&$ games.  Tivo has helped with football, though.  DH scoffed at the idea, but now he is hooked.  Every other Saturday night, I have a poker game at our house.  DH watches our angel, and TIVO's the game(s). 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: camlan on March 12, 2012, 04:31:34 PM
If it's not football, it's hockey. Or basketball. Or baseball. Or soccer. Or lacrosse, golf, bowling.

Or all of them. Most of the guys I know follow whatever sport is being played that season. There is always a big game coming up, or on, or just over that needs to be discussed or watched.

A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

And when she watched her favorite sport, figure skating? Did she expect him to keep her company then? Well, she might want him there, but he would leave the house.

I know a lot of guys who are not into any sports at all.  When someone had a superbowl party they had to post " We WILL be watching the game" because the majority of the invited would have asked to do something else - in previous superbowl parties the game was background to other activities.

I would like to meet some of these guys. I know, on a purely intellectual level, that they must exist. The law of average says that they exist.

But in my world, all my brothers, all my male cousins, all my male co-workers, all my male friends--they are all fixated on sports. Maybe not all of them on every single sport, but enough of them. This upcoming weekend is a big one for college basketball and I know of two all-weekend, all-basketball parties/sleepovers being planned. These are guys (and a few gals) in their 40s and 50s.

I think I will be hanging around the library, hoping to meet a bookish sort of guy.

We are having a party this Sunday so if you are in the upstate NY area I could introduce you to some! :-)

Thank you for the kind invitation, but I'm afraid I must decline, as the 9 hour drive is a bit far for the weekend. (I know, because my brother lives near Rochester. I'm painfully familiar with a good portion of the NY Thruway.)
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sterling on March 12, 2012, 04:34:11 PM
I use to want a guy who was college educated (preferably with a Masters degree like myself) and tall and athletic.

Well I met my fiance and I didn't think much of him the first time I met him.  I didn't dislike him I just ignored him and was more interested in his roommate.  Leo and I became friends and I am ashamed to admit I mostly hung out wiht him to flirt with his roommate who didn't notice I exsisted.

Leo doesn't look like my description of the perfect guy and he has no college education at all.  But he is brillant and can talk about any subject.  He makes me happy.  I don't think I settled.  I think I realized what traits were actually important to me and which ones were not.

But if I had stuck with my ridged list I would never have ended up this happy. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Drawberry on March 12, 2012, 05:02:04 PM
It seem's like internet dating is more in tune to bring out people's 'fantasy list' of partner traits then may normally be presented. Perhaps it's that air of anonymity where one feels like it's more acceptable to be more....well....shallow, and at times even cruel.

Not too long ago I came across a comic drawn by a male about his female friend who had joined a dating website and was lamenting to him that no men show interest in her and that she just wants a nice guy. When she sat down at the computer she pulled up all the messages from the dating website with men who wrote well thought out messages about wanting to met her, she said 'I get like ten of these a day' and deleted them all without reading them. Then complained about not finding any good guys

Unfortunately I can't seem to find it again, but your story reminded me of it.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Aeris on March 12, 2012, 05:05:22 PM
It seem's like internet dating is more in tune to bring out people's 'fantasy list' of partner traits then may normally be presented. Perhaps it's that air of anonymity where one feels like it's more acceptable to be more....well....shallow, and at times even cruel.

Not too long ago I came across a comic drawn by a male about his female friend who had joined a dating website and was lamenting to him that no men show interest in her and that she just wants a nice guy. When she sat down at the computer she pulled up all the messages from the dating website with men who wrote well thought out messages about wanting to met her, she said 'I get like ten of these a day' and deleted them all without reading them. Then complained about not finding any good guys

Unfortunately I can't seem to find it again, but your story reminded me of it.

I've often thought that because it's online, people seem confuse DatingWebsite with Zappos, or Amazon, and think they are shopping, instead of looking for someone who is a real human being that they might, or might not, like to get to know.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Drawberry on March 12, 2012, 10:46:47 PM
I've often thought that because it's online, people seem confuse DatingWebsite with Zappos, or Amazon, and think they are shopping, instead of looking for someone who is a real human being that they might, or might not, like to get to know.

This. Perfectly.

The internet has an inherent ability to make us forget the person on the other end is a real honest to god human being. With their own thoughts and feelings that can be hurt just as easily as if we where to say this hurtful slur to their face. It can make ventures like online dating become more like shopping for shoes or new ipods-you put in the stats you're looking for and keep searching until something matches up. Real life isn't like that, you cannot put down "2GB.Blue eyes.Brown hair." and hit search. A level of humanity is taken away with online interactions and I believe part of it hearkens back to women being told they have a Prince Charming who will meet all their expectations if they wait in the castle long enough, so we begin to hold humans to a standard that humans cannot reasonably obtain.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Venus193 on March 12, 2012, 10:49:33 PM
I suspect that the other thought is that since one's post is seen by so many more people than one normally meets face to face, some people think this may increase their chances.

My experience and that of others I know is that many if not most dating website users misrepresent themselves.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sophia on March 13, 2012, 08:53:45 AM
That might depend on the website.  Of the guys I met in person from a dating website, I didn't have a spark with anyone except for DH.  But, they were what I expected them to be.   It might have been the website, or it might have been that I'd gotten a professional photo done right before and I put the date of the photo in my description.  That might have attracted the genuine guys who were sick and tired of the women that misrepresented themselves. 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Nora on March 13, 2012, 11:57:26 AM
I said, "I'm just hoping for one who isn't into football."

She made a face. "You'll never find anyone if you're not flexible enough to accept them for who they are," she told me.

That story made me LOL for real  ;D  If you find two guys who aren't into football, can you send the spare to me?

I have 2 guys who aren't into football or any other televised sport! So naturally they both loooooove video games. We may have every piece of Playstation equipment known to man, and whole bookshelves filled with Xbox/PS/PC etc games. Sometimes I come home to them playing the same game on 2 different screens, communicating only through grunts and yelps. At least they entertain each other!  ;)

They don't force me to participate in something that bores me, and they let me have the shows I obsess over in peace. In fact they'll leave the house altogether on Grey's anatomy night...  ;D
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: DavidH on March 13, 2012, 03:33:27 PM
I'm not quite cynical enough to say everyone misrepresents themself, but a lot of people do.  It's like any other advertisement, it may include the truth, but you need to be skeptical.

dating sites are a numbers game, you come into contact with more people, and if you bother to read all the replies, you may reject a large number initially but some will be okay.  I think it makes sense to respond to all replies that seem okay rather than wait for a perfect one since you can always exchange a few emails and then make a decision based on that.  A mediocre first email might be from someone you'll like or it may get worse from there.  Just because you send a few emails doesn't mean you need to talk on the phone or meet in person.

If you're looking for lottery winning red heads of a certain height and weight with an unusual set of interests, you will have a hard time finding one, but if you make your criteria a bit less specific, you may find the right person and not "settle".
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: shhh its me on March 13, 2012, 05:00:34 PM
I'm not quite cynical enough to say everyone misrepresents themself, but a lot of people do.  It's like any other advertisement, it may include the truth, but you need to be skeptical.

dating sites are a numbers game, you come into contact with more people, and if you bother to read all the replies, you may reject a large number initially but some will be okay.  I think it makes sense to respond to all replies that seem okay rather than wait for a perfect one since you can always exchange a few emails and then make a decision based on that.  A mediocre first email might be from someone you'll like or it may get worse from there.  Just because you send a few emails doesn't mean you need to talk on the phone or meet in person.

If you're looking for lottery winning red heads of a certain height and weight with an unusual set of interests, you will have a hard time finding one, but if you make your criteria a bit less specific, you may find the right person and not "settle".

It doesn't even have to be misrepsenting , how many people really see themselves clearly?
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: blarg314 on March 13, 2012, 07:38:07 PM
It seem's like internet dating is more in tune to bring out people's 'fantasy list' of partner traits then may normally be presented. Perhaps it's that air of anonymity where one feels like it's more acceptable to be more....well....shallow, and at times even cruel.


I think it's a natural consequence of the medium, though. In situations where you are looking for a date, you need some way of filtering. You don't have the time and energy to seriously consider every eligible guy you meet, get to know them, and reject or accept them based on a balanced view of their personality, morals, goals in life and mutual attraction.

In person, we tend to filter quickly based on first impressions of a person's attractiveness and mutual interests.  This tends to favour people who are attractive and socially adept, but can lead to people falling into relationships and then realizing a basic incompatibility in deeper things (one wants kids, the other doesn't, for example).

On the web, we don't have that first impression, so we filter on lists, which can be as shallow as first impressions can, or can be based on deeper things.  But it can lead to people getting so obsessed by a list that they are missing people who would be really good matches.

Of course, there is the option of getting to know people as friends first, and then being attracted. But this can be very, very slow, and depends on you having a circle of friends that already contains a good match for you, who is also available. People tend to resort to on-line dating (or more traditional meat markets) when they haven't found someone in their general circle of acquaintances.

A friend and I once had a great time coming up with really honest dating profiles. It was entertaining, but if we put them up on line there would be pretty much zero chance of getting a serious response, any more than you'd get asked for your number if you went to a night club in sweats, no makeup and a messy ponytail.  Crafting a profile carefully is the internet equivalent of a hot outfit and spending time on your hair and makeup and getting a manicure.


Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: auntmeegs on March 14, 2012, 03:55:32 PM
If it's not football, it's hockey. Or basketball. Or baseball. Or soccer. Or lacrosse, golf, bowling.

Or all of them. Most of the guys I know follow whatever sport is being played that season. There is always a big game coming up, or on, or just over that needs to be discussed or watched.

A co-worker complained to me once that his girlfriend kept falling asleep on the weekends when they watched football/baseball/basketball together. I suggested that she might go off and do something else during that time. Oh, no, he knew she was bored with the sports, but he liked to have her there while he watched.

And when she watched her favorite sport, figure skating? Did she expect him to keep her company then? Well, she might want him there, but he would leave the house.

I know a lot of guys who are not into any sports at all.  When someone had a superbowl party they had to post " We WILL be watching the game" because the majority of the invited would have asked to do something else - in previous superbowl parties the game was background to other activities.

I would like to meet some of these guys. I know, on a purely intellectual level, that they must exist. The law of average says that they exist.

But in my world, all my brothers, all my male cousins, all my male co-workers, all my male friends--they are all fixated on sports. Maybe not all of them on every single sport, but enough of them. This upcoming weekend is a big one for college basketball and I know of two all-weekend, all-basketball parties/sleepovers being planned. These are guys (and a few gals) in their 40s and 50s.

I think I will be hanging around the library, hoping to meet a bookish sort of guy.

Or go see a band!  My DH is a drummer and is not at all interested in sports or video games! 
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: NutMeg on March 15, 2012, 01:15:16 AM
Neither my current guy or my ex liked football, or any sports at all. They're both self-identified, geeks though (as am I!) So maybe it's football or video games...:D

Sadly, you can find guys who are both into football AND video games.  I should know, I'm married to one!

Happily, you can also find women who are into both football AND video games. Ask me how i know this.

Indeed. My SO is very happy he found one. And you know what? I was apathetic about sports when I met him. It is because of him that I now know how much I love football. We watch every single game, every single week, and it is awesome.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Softly Spoken on March 18, 2012, 02:51:57 AM
BG: I met this friend through work and although we are complete opposites on most things we managed to still be friends. Shes has decided on doing the internet dating thing, which is fine, but her standards are what I feel are crazy. The guys have to have:
1) Great grammar
2) good looking (and very specific, preferable blond hair, blue eyes, perfect teeth, GQ build etc)
3) Very successful (business owners are a plus)
4) *if they made it this far* must be at her beck and call and must be able to "amuse" her.
5) Must be between age x and y, z's too old
These seem minor like "well yeah, everyone deserves someone like that", but the way its presented is hideously shallow. I hear about these standards and problems while at work via work IM, then get bombarded at home with texts messages or phone calls, all complaints about these men, and how they aren't just right..and its been going on for months.

  The etiquette question: Can you politely tell someone that a) you don't have the looks NOR personality to be that picky and b)Can you politely say "look, until you decide to give an average guy a chance, I don't want to hear about this anymore?".  :o

  If I'm being too snarky please feel free to call me out on it.
As far as your friends "requirements", #4 is the one that sounds the worst. The others can be considered picky if they are dealbreakers...
#1 ("great grammar") isn't too bad but it's something you keep at the back of your head not something you put in your profile. Basically if grammar is important to you, you screen your messages instead of listing it as a requirement. I will admit I don't respond to messages that are poorly written, especially since it takes no effort to hit the Spell Check button before the Send button. I appreciate a man who is well spoken, but I am not a grammar nazi. Benefit of the doubt: maybe she just means "good conversationalist"? Just hoping... ::)

#2 - (good looking (and very specific, preferable blond hair, blue eyes, perfect teeth, GQ build etc.)) We maybe never admit it but I think we all do this at least in our heads. We all have that movie star we love or poster we drool over. We all have our dream match, and I think the internet dating sites like to make you think you can find/"special order" him from them. ;) dating sites perpetuate the myth that your choices are endless and feed into the "finding The One/someday my Prince will come" fantasy we have. Yes it seems shallow but we all have our preferences. If we are in the right mind set, the brown-haired guy with green eyes might still win us over even if we said we wanted a blue-eyes blonde. But we're also greedy/ambitious enough to want to try and get exactly what we "order" from these matchmaking places, then if we don't we start "settling" i.e. readjusting our priorities.

3) "Very successful (business owners are a plus)" - who is actively looking to date someone who is struggling? Does she only care how much he makes (ie classic sugar daddy who will buy her nice things) or is she worried about finding someone stable enough to support the family she wants to have? How does she define "successful"? People who are stable and at least have a means of supporting themselves are obviously in a better position to be in a healthy relationship. Ironically self-employment (not exactly the same as owning a business but they overlap) is actually becoming the trend in this economy. ;)

4) *if they made it this far* must be at her beck and call and must be able to "amuse" her. - if she is wording it like that in her profile, I think she's only going to attract some seriously masochistic guys. This one is by far the most ridiculous and shallow, and shows a very poor idea of what it means to be in a relationship. Why doesn't she just hire an escort? ::)

5) ("Must be between age x and y, z's too old.") I was one of those people who thought age was "just a number," until I dated someone quite a bit older than me and realized it was frustrating explaining pop culture references that went over his head or how we couldn't bond over shared history because while he could remember where he was when X happened, I hadn't even learned to talk yet. :( I think it's silly to have a cutoff where you'll date someone who's 32 but will absolutely never date a 33 yr old. This may be shallow but it depends on why age matters to you, if it does.

I actually take exception to the bolded line you want to say to her - it sounds very snarky and actually rude/shallow on your part - it's like you are saying if she were prettier and, what, smarter/nicer/more experienced then she would "deserve" someone with all the qualities she described and they would be attracted to her? If a guy like she describes actually exists, it's possible (like winning the lottery is 'possible') he would be attracted to her - but the chances of them finding each other are slim to none.

It's not about her being 'picky,' it's about her having unrealistic expectations and communicating them in a way that makes her look bad. I think at this point her options are 1) change her criteria, 2) change dating sites and/or 3) stop trying. Feel free to recommend any combination of the above. I wouldn't tell her "Shut up you're too picky" - maybe something along the lines of "Wow it sounds like this online dating thing isn't really working for you. It's hard to hear about your lack of success all the time. A lot of those guys sounded decent even if they weren't your type. If you aren't even going to give them a chance and you aren't finding who you're looking for, maybe you should take a break or try meeting a guy some other way. Let me know when you have good news!"

Just my two cents... ;D
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Sharnita on March 18, 2012, 03:26:55 PM
If I were her friend I would think she needed to adjust her standards as opposed to lowering her standards.

the idea that "very good looking" includes hair and eye color is a bit disturbing to me.  I'd also wonder what she would do if baldness sets in a few years later.  If so much is tied into that package what would happen if age, time or illness changed his looks?

the idea of "very successful" actually makes me shake my head. In this day and age a whole lot of business owners are barely surviving financially. They risk a great deal and so much depends on things they might not be able to control.  And again, there are factors that can turn things around - illness, economic changes, etc.  While it makes sense to look for somebody who is at least currently capable of contributing their fair share to family expenses it sounds like she has a narrow and unrealistic view of who that might be in society.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: grannyclampettjr on March 18, 2012, 03:55:08 PM
Nothing wrong with a man who is into sports--I prefer em, coming from a family of sports nuts.   (It gives you time to yourself, if nothing else.)  What I cannot abide, however, is men who have never set foot on a field or court of any kind who refuse to believe that women can know a little something about the sport in question.   I will defer to someone who has played sports in HS and college (my current bf, father and uncle lettered in 3 sports)--I will not defer to a non-athlete who has only played fantasy football, because they typically do not know any more than a woman who has steeped in their families obsession.     In my experience the athletes are *way* less chauvinistic in this regard (and are eager to explain their passion to you) than non athletes, so, ladies?  Don't believe the stereotypes.   

In regards to the list of standards and how to approach this subject...criteria #4 really bothers me.  Nobody should be at anybody's beck and call, especially early in a relationship, whether it's friendship or romance.  That is something that must be earned, and it must be mutual.   OP, does she expect this of friends too?   Because if she does?  She's not worth the time and energy.   (Been there, done that, had the undereye bags to prove it.)
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: blarg314 on March 18, 2012, 07:30:52 PM
  Nobody should be at anybody's beck and call, especially early in a relationship, whether it's friendship or romance.  That is something that must be earned, and it must be mutual. 

There is a level of attentiveness early in a romance that indicates the other person is really into you, so too far the other way is a bad sign (if someone is giving off vibes that say "You have to earn my interest and attention" it's just as off-putting as someone who sits there and says "Entertain me!") But it's something that's offered, not demanded.

I also laughed about the business owner requirement. She wants to date someone who is sinking all their assets and time into keeping a business running and successful, *and* expects him to be at her beck and call, day and night?!  I suspect what she really wants is someone who inherited a successful family business that's profitable and taken care of by managers.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: strawbabies on March 28, 2012, 04:50:58 PM
What drives me over the edge is when DH NEEDS to watch a football game that isn't from this century
Wait...they re-run football games????  Why?
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: hobish on March 28, 2012, 05:32:30 PM
What drives me over the edge is when DH NEEDS to watch a football game that isn't from this century
Wait...they re-run football games????  Why?

Even when you know how they are gonig to play out, some classic games are neat to watch. Some hits you can just watch again and again and again, and some really beautiful plays, too. You know how most movies are going to end - the dog dies, the princess is rescued, the ring is destroyed ... and yet people still watch them because they like the story or the actors or the special effects ... it's not that much different.

Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Nora on March 30, 2012, 03:15:29 PM
What drives me over the edge is when DH NEEDS to watch a football game that isn't from this century
Wait...they re-run football games????  Why?

Even when you know how they are gonig to play out, some classic games are neat to watch. Some hits you can just watch again and again and again, and some really beautiful plays, too. You know how most movies are going to end - the dog dies, the princess is rescued, the ring is destroyed ... and yet people still watch them because they like the story or the actors or the special effects ... it's not that much different.

I'm really not into sports, but I do get that. As it is I've read most Agatha Christie novels at least 3 times (not exaggerating at all here), and I know who dunnit, I know who's going to catch them and how, and I still reread them into oblivion.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: wyliefool on April 26, 2012, 11:48:56 AM
Me, I'm holding out for a former* Olympic gymnast who can play the zither and recite Mervyn Peake poems by heart. I know he's out there!

*Because Olympic training takes way too much time away from pampering me in the style to which I have become accustomed.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: MacadamiaNut on April 26, 2012, 12:38:20 PM
Me, I'm holding out for a former* Olympic gymnast who can play the zither and recite Mervyn Peake poems by heart. I know he's out there!

*Because Olympic training takes way too much time away from pampering me in the style to which I have become accustomed.

LOL! ;D  Good call on the "former" status requirement!
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: Twik on April 26, 2012, 02:29:17 PM
Plus they have to spend their endorsement checks on training, and dreary stuff like that, whereas required athletes don't.
Title: Re: How to tell a friend that they are too picky?
Post by: blueyzca01 on May 02, 2012, 01:14:33 PM
I am continually amazed at the levels of sheer brilliance I encounter here!!! ;D