Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Dating => Topic started by: TealDragon on March 12, 2012, 02:12:44 AM

Title: Significant others and their friends
Post by: TealDragon on March 12, 2012, 02:12:44 AM
I was discussing this with a friend who is in a bit  of a situation right now and wondered what the right etiquette for this might be.

Amy is upset with her husband, Chris, because one of his friends has made some offensive and untrue comments about Amy. This friend, Rick, told Amy that she is a terrible person and an awful mother and she shouldn't have kids (what he said bordered on saying that she is cruel to and abuses her children) and he said she was being a complete [bad word] when she defended herself. Amy is a wonderful mother. Her children are kind people, well behaved, smart, cared for in every possible way, never physically punished, never neglected or denied anything like food or medicine or attention, and she loves them with every bit of herself. Rick has no children and he said that if he did, he would raise them differently because it's not fair to not give in when they throw tantrums because they are crying out for your love and that they shouldn't be expected to have household chores or to have to do things they don't want to do, like trying sports and instruments and sticking to commitments that aren't always enjoyable (the exact examples given were that she told her 7 year old daughter that she needed to choose an extracurricular activity to try and that she made her 8 year old son stick it out as his class president when it turned out to be less of a fun job than he thought it would).

Amy pretty much hates Rick for this and thinks that he was so unbelievably out of line in saying that to her and she is content to never see his face again. She also thinks that Chris should be more upset than he is because by saying that Amy is a bad parent and mean to her kids, he's also saying that about Chris because Chris is also making these parenting choices and stands by them. Chris is angry with Rick and has told him so and Rick apparently apologized to him and Chris does not want this issue to make waves in their social group and he just wants to go back to being friends with Rick. Amy is not at all a demanding or controlling wife and she would never tell Chris who his friends should be, but she's really thinking about saying something in this situation because she feels that it was a line that was crossed so badly that there is going back and that it's not right for him to want to be friends with someone who thinks these things about them.

I can sort of see both sides here, but I am much better friends with Amy and so I do feel much more for her side, but I was wondering what you all might think about this. Is it ever ok to dictate your significant other's friendships? Is this one of those times, or should she try to get past it so as not to make it awkward for her husband?
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Iris on March 12, 2012, 02:24:48 AM
I'm torn on this one. On the one hand I would be very very reluctant to dictate to DH who he can be friends with. On the other hand I would be upset that DH wanted to be friends with someone who was mean to me. It goes without saying that Rick was so far out of line that he'd have to travel for a day just to see the line in the distance. It almost seems bizarre and I'm wondering if there were alcohol involved. Why was he even commenting on her parenting? It seems such a strange thing to do.

In the end, I think that since this only happened once - and Chris was genuinely annoyed and required an apology - I'd be willing to let it go if it were really important to my DH for me to do so. Rick is clearly a fool and in really he's made noone look bad but himself.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Nemesis on March 12, 2012, 02:36:35 AM
I would not dictate to my spouse on who he can be friends with. But I would let him know that Rick is on my "Cut-Direct" list and under no circumstances would he be invited to our house.

Plus, even though I won't actually tell him to "unfriend" Rick, I would be really hurt if he would choose to remain friends with someone who says and thinks such nasty things about me.

Etiquette and relationship issues are, unfortunately, not always on the same page.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: MacadamiaNut on March 12, 2012, 02:38:50 AM
I'm torn on this one. On the one hand I would be very very reluctant to dictate to DH who he can be friends with. On the other hand I would be upset that DH wanted to be friends with someone who was mean to me. It goes without saying that Rick was so far out of line that he'd have to travel for a day just to see the line in the distance. It almost seems bizarre and I'm wondering if there were alcohol involved. Why was he even commenting on her parenting? It seems such a strange thing to do.

In the end, I think that since this only happened once - and Chris was genuinely annoyed and required an apology - I'd be willing to let it go if it were really important to my DH for me to do so. Rick is clearly a fool and in really he's made noone look bad but himself.

I agree with this.  I also want to know if when Rick apologized, what kind of an apology was it?  Was it a non-apology, like "I'm sorry you feel that way" sort of thing, or did he apologize genuinely with an acknowledgement and regret for what he said?  There's a big difference.  Also, he should have apologized to Amy, not DH, since she is the one who caught his wrath, so that doesn't sit right with me either.  :-\
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: TealDragon on March 12, 2012, 02:46:34 AM
Rick is kind of a weird guy. I've only met him a few times, but I haven't cared for him. He's really self-centered and egotistical in the way that people are when they've been brought up being very coddled and taught to expect everyone to bend to suit their own needs and wants first. Amy said they had him over for dinner and her daughter said something kind of bratty and then when chastised, refused to eat her dinner, so Amy told her she couldn't have any dessert. As far as I know, there was no significant amount of alcohol involved, maybe a glass of wine or a beer because the whole thing happened early in the dinner and Amy and Chris aren't big drinkers (I don't know about Rick, but I know A&C wouldn't allow someone to drink heavily around their kids). He said something to Amy about how it was unfair of her to exclude her daughter from dessert and that she should lighten up, Amy said that isn't how they are raising their kids, and Rick said something passive aggressive that amounted to saying that she is parenting incorrectly and when she asked what he thought made that an acceptable comment to make, he started in on saying that she's an awful parent because of X, Y, and Z. I agree, it makes zero sense to say such a thing, but I guess that's just his personality and he doesn't really understand social interaction norms. It's also not the first time he's said rude things to her but his past rude comments were quite tiny compared to this and she always let those go for Chris's sake. Rick's apology to Amy was "I'm sorry that you got so irrationally angry" so no, he hasn't actually apologized and as far as anyone knows, he doesn't intend to and he's also said that he thinks she should apologize to him for having yelled at him and told him off and telling him that he needed to leave her house.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: TealDragon on March 12, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
I would not dictate to my spouse on who he can be friends with. But I would let him know that Rick is on my "Cut-Direct" list and under no circumstances would he be invited to our house.

Plus, even though I won't actually tell him to "unfriend" Rick, I would be really hurt if he would choose to remain friends with someone who says and thinks such nasty things about me.

Etiquette and relationship issues are, unfortunately, not always on the same page.

I'm curious, do you think it would be appropriate for her to let him know that it hurts her, or should she keep that to herself? She so far has kept it to herself over the last week because she doesn't want to guilt trip Chris into making a different decision, but she's pretty upset about not being able to talk about it with him.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: MacadamiaNut on March 12, 2012, 03:34:52 AM
I would not dictate to my spouse on who he can be friends with. But I would let him know that Rick is on my "Cut-Direct" list and under no circumstances would he be invited to our house.

Plus, even though I won't actually tell him to "unfriend" Rick, I would be really hurt if he would choose to remain friends with someone who says and thinks such nasty things about me.

Etiquette and relationship issues are, unfortunately, not always on the same page.

I'm curious, do you think it would be appropriate for her to let him know that it hurts her, or should she keep that to herself? She so far has kept it to herself over the last week because she doesn't want to guilt trip Chris into making a different decision, but she's pretty upset about not being able to talk about it with him.

I don't see anything wrong with her telling her husband that it hurts her.  He is her husband.  Why should he not know how she feels?  (I know you weren't asking me this question but I thought I'd reply on this post.)

In terms of your earlier post, that is one of the worst kinds of non-apologies!  It's the non-apology PLUS insult.  Wow, this Rick does not sound like someone I'd want around.  Ever.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Iris on March 12, 2012, 03:36:17 AM
"I'm sorry that you got so irrationally angry"??!!

 :o >:( :o >:( :o >:( :o >:( >:( >:( >:(

My answer has changed a bit. I still wouldn't stop my DH from being friends with him but no WAY would he be coming to my house again. If DH wanted to be friends with him he could see him elsewhere.

As to whether she should let him know that she feels hurt, that's up to her. If it's something she can shrug off eventually then I would try to do that. But if she feels like she will stew on it until it becomes an issue then it's probably better to clear the air.

FWIW I know some men (and women too if I'm being fair) who place smooth social interactions and 'not making a scene' very highly and sometimes it leads them to be unintentionally unfair to those closer to them. If your friend's DH is like that he probably won't really understand why she's hurt and it might be difficult for her to explain.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Nemesis on March 12, 2012, 04:22:38 AM
I would not dictate to my spouse on who he can be friends with. But I would let him know that Rick is on my "Cut-Direct" list and under no circumstances would he be invited to our house.

Plus, even though I won't actually tell him to "unfriend" Rick, I would be really hurt if he would choose to remain friends with someone who says and thinks such nasty things about me.

Etiquette and relationship issues are, unfortunately, not always on the same page.

I'm curious, do you think it would be appropriate for her to let him know that it hurts her, or should she keep that to herself? She so far has kept it to herself over the last week because she doesn't want to guilt trip Chris into making a different decision, but she's pretty upset about not being able to talk about it with him.

I don't see anything wrong with her telling her husband that it hurts her. He is her husband.  Why should he not know how she feels?  (I know you weren't asking me this question but I thought I'd reply on this post.)

In terms of your earlier post, that is one of the worst kinds of non-apologies!  It's the non-apology PLUS insult.  Wow, this Rick does not sound like someone I'd want around.  Ever.

I agree with MacadamiaNut. She needs to let him know how much it hurts, and how much she dislikes Rick. And what he said ("I'm sorry you got so irrationally angry") is not an apology but a poorly disguised insult. Such an apology after his previous remarks would earn him a cut direct in my books. If I am giving my spouse's friend a cut direct, my spouse needs to know about it and the reasons that led to my decision. He needs to support my decision provided it is reasonable (and Rick's behaviour indeed has made it reasonable).

Etiquette does not require us to be subjected to rude, aggressive and quarrelsome individuals. Thankfully.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: weeblewobble on March 12, 2012, 04:57:02 AM
Rick would not darken my door again.  You don't try to interfere with my parenting (the dessert argument) and then undermine me in front of my kids.  And you don't call me an unfit parent who shouldn't have children, then a foul name when I defend myself.

If you do, you are non-existent to me, socially. If I see you in public, I don't care if my spouse does speak to you, I will not.  You don't get to come into my home anymore.  You don't speak to the children you seem to think are being abused and poorly socialized.  If I go to a party and you're there, I don't speak to you.  If it becomes impossible to ignore you politely, I'll leave.  I don't "make nice" with people who insult me and expect me to take it in the name of what's comfortable for the group.

I would let my husband know that if it was that important to him to see someone who had called me a foul name, an awful person and a terrible parent who shouldn't have children, then he should do so away from our home and children.  But I would also say along the lines of, "You can spend time with whomever you choose.  But it really hurts my feelings that it is more important to you that I accept the half-hearted apology of someone who clearly dislikes me so much, than to upset the 'social group.'  It hurts me that Rick's feelings are more important to you than mine.  And it hurts me that you could enjoy the company of someone who feels that way about your wife.  I'm not going to pretend I'm happy about it."
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Sharnita on March 12, 2012, 05:26:57 AM
Honestly, this guy has behaved in a way that is bullying.  I would not generally say she can tell him who to associate with but I think it is reasonable to insist that he not hang with somebody who bullies her.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Perfect Circle on March 12, 2012, 05:51:18 AM
I wouldn't insist on it, but I would expect my husband to respect my wishes not to deal with this person.

We have been in a similar situation where someone said something incredibly hurtful to me before we got married. He was a friend of my now husband. I clearly stated that person would not come to our house and I would not meet with him anywhere else either. My husband heard the comment ended up cutting the person off his life too, but it was his decision.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: missmolly on March 12, 2012, 07:41:52 AM
I POD the others. Amy should make it clear just how much hurt she feels over Chris' comments and his apology-that-was-actually-an-insult. If her husband still chooses to see him, well he's not got great taste in friends, but that's up to him. But Chris should never be invited to darken their door again.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Winterlight on March 12, 2012, 08:28:28 AM
I'd make it real clear to my husband that Rick is on my Cut-direct list. He doesn't come over, he doesn't get invited to events with us, I won't talk to him and will avoid him as much as possible. I think it's fair to draw a line and say, "This person insulted me in my home in front of you and our children. He has not apologized, and he has called me irrational for being upset at his behavior. I don't want him around."
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Jones on March 12, 2012, 08:45:22 AM
Well, I would put my foot down that Rick wasn't allowed around my kids. Undermining a parent in front of the children, seriously? And I think she's well within her rights to turn and walk out of a party if Rick shows up at a mutual friend's home, too.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Twik on March 12, 2012, 10:55:20 AM
I would not dictate to my spouse on who he can be friends with. But I would let him know that Rick is on my "Cut-Direct" list and under no circumstances would he be invited to our house.

Plus, even though I won't actually tell him to "unfriend" Rick, I would be really hurt if he would choose to remain friends with someone who says and thinks such nasty things about me.

Etiquette and relationship issues are, unfortunately, not always on the same page.

I'm curious, do you think it would be appropriate for her to let him know that it hurts her, or should she keep that to herself? She so far has kept it to herself over the last week because she doesn't want to guilt trip Chris into making a different decision, but she's pretty upset about not being able to talk about it with him.

I think this is something she MUST talk to Chris about, if she can do it in a calm manner. Bottling it up will not help.

Something like, "Chris, I know you like Rick, and consider him a friend. But I do feel hurt that when he calls me a terrible mother, swears at me, and calls me irrational for objecting, that you don't seem to have my back here. It makes me feel that Rick is more important to you than I am, or at least that his feelings are. If someone told me that you were a terrible father, and shouldn't have children, I would be there to defend you, because I know that you are a good father, and that is a horrible thing to say."
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: SamiHami on March 12, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
Rick would not darken my door again.  You don't try to interfere with my parenting (the dessert argument) and then undermine me in front of my kids.  And you don't call me an unfit parent who shouldn't have children, then a foul name when I defend myself.

If you do, you are non-existent to me, socially. If I see you in public, I don't care if my spouse does speak to you, I will not.  You don't get to come into my home anymore.  You don't speak to the children you seem to think are being abused and poorly socialized.  If I go to a party and you're there, I don't speak to you.  If it becomes impossible to ignore you politely, I'll leave.  I don't "make nice" with people who insult me and expect me to take it in the name of what's comfortable for the group.

I would let my husband know that if it was that important to him to see someone who had called me a foul name, an awful person and a terrible parent who shouldn't have children, then he should do so away from our home and children.  But I would also say along the lines of, "You can spend time with whomever you choose.  But it really hurts my feelings that it is more important to you that I accept the half-hearted apology of someone who clearly dislikes me so much, than to upset the 'social group.'  It hurts me that Rick's feelings are more important to you than mine.  And it hurts me that you could enjoy the company of someone who feels that way about your wife.  I'm not going to pretend I'm happy about it."


Where is a like button when you need it? POD x1000
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Mikayla on March 12, 2012, 12:51:18 PM
I'm with weeblewobble.  This doesn't strike me as telling an SO who his friends can be.  It's an issue of demanding respect in your own home.  Parts of this are borderline toxic.

To be honest, I'd be annoyed with Rick if I was Amy.  I can understand not wanting to make waves in a social circle, but as a husband and father, his priorities seem a bit skewed.  And even if the apology had been legit, it doesn't change anything if the behavior continues.

I like the suggested wording on what to say to Rick. 
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: LifeOnPluto on March 12, 2012, 09:35:03 PM
In this case, I see nothing wrong with Amy telling Chris that whilst she isn't going to dictate who he can be friends with, she'd strongly prefer it if he didn't associate with Rick, based on how rude and hurtful he was to Amy.

However - and I'm not saying Amy is lying or exaggerating here - there can sometimes be two sides to every story. I've had a similar situation happen with friends. The "Rick" in my story was simply a rather socially inept person, and his comments were misinterpreted by the "Amy" of the story. As a result, "my" Amy now refuses to attend any function where Rick might be. "My" Chris is actually sympathetic towards Rick, but unfortunately, believes he has little choice but to prioritise his wife's feelings over his former friendship with Rick. As a result, it's really fractured our friendship group.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 12, 2012, 10:57:11 PM
I would be done with the poor excuse for a friend. And my advise to Amy would be to tell husbands exactly how she feels, that she is so hurt and angry she never wants to see dufus again. She expects husbands to limit his contact with dufus. This is spouse supporting each other. Any husband who wanted to waste time with such an idiot would not have my respect.
I refuse to waste my time with arrogant fools. And often socially awkward really means someone so self centered they can't be bothered to think about others.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Petticoats on March 13, 2012, 08:32:57 AM
What Weeblewobble said. Chris needs to understand how Rick's behavior was hurtful and offensive to his wife, and needs to stand by his wife. Rick should be banned from the house, and I would hope that Chris would prioritize his wife's feelings enough that he would voluntarily choose to limit his interactions with this nasty person.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: artk2002 on March 13, 2012, 03:54:48 PM
I would not dictate to my spouse on who he can be friends with. But I would let him know that Rick is on my "Cut-Direct" list and under no circumstances would he be invited to our house.

Plus, even though I won't actually tell him to "unfriend" Rick, I would be really hurt if he would choose to remain friends with someone who says and thinks such nasty things about me.

Etiquette and relationship issues are, unfortunately, not always on the same page.

I'm curious, do you think it would be appropriate for her to let him know that it hurts her, or should she keep that to herself? She so far has kept it to herself over the last week because she doesn't want to guilt trip Chris into making a different decision, but she's pretty upset about not being able to talk about it with him.

Yes, she certainly should make her feelings known. Frankly, Chris should feel guilty -- if he didn't toss Rick out on his ear for what he said, then Chris is condoning it. This isn't a friend problem, this is a husband problem. I don't think very much of someone who would let a "friend" say that to their spouse.

She's perfectly within her rights to ban Rick from her presence and Chris needs to support her in that.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: blarg314 on March 13, 2012, 07:41:27 PM

I'd be pretty peeved if my husband made a conscious decision to pursue a friendship with someone who insulted me like that, and then followed it with such an obnoxious 'apology'. Keeping on neutral terms in a group of friends would be a bit different, though.

What I would insist on, though, is that Rick is not to be invited to our house, ever. If DH wants to socialize with him, it has to be away from the house, and not involve me except in the most peripheral way (both at a party, for example).

And yeah, if Chris feels uncomfortable about the situation, that's his problem, and that's the cost of maintaining a close friendship with someone who treats your wife badly.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: HenrysMom on March 14, 2012, 09:22:47 AM
Chris wants to remain friends with a man who insulted his wife in HER OWN HOME and then said "I'm sorry you got irrationally angry?"  Amy needs to put her foot down on Chris' neck and tell him that if he remains friends with Rick it will damage her opinion of him as a husband and a man.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: TheVapors on March 14, 2012, 01:06:18 PM
This made my blood boil. That non-apology plus insult just puts the tombstone on top of the grave.

You can bet I'd let my feelings show to my husband in this situation. I'd let him know my feelings to set up the one rule I'd have to put up due to Rick's behavior.

This one rule being: Rick is not welcome. He is not welcome near me, near my children, near my home. Forever. End of story.

I would not be explaining my feelings as a means to getting my husband to cut off all contact. (Though, if he did choose to do so, I wouldn't object - putting it mildly). My hope in explaining my feelings would be that my husband would understand my side and come to my defense and give me the support I need. 

I know what I would say...

'Your friend, who we were graciously hosting, interrupted the punishment of my child. Called me a bad parent. Called me names. Swore at me. And then said "I'm sorry you got irrationally angry." with all the disrespect he could muster. I am angry. I am hurt. I hope you can see why I never want to see that man again. This is the last straw in a series of insults and other incidents. He is persona non grata, and I will not tolerate his presence any longer.'

Then the softer, 'I realize you're in a difficult position right now. But, my position is clear. This man is a toxic person. I will not suffer him. If you'd rather remain friends and socialize with him outside of the house, then that's your choice, but I am going to ask that you not put up with him badmouthing me or this decision to ban him from our home. I'm asking for your support.'

Maybe Chris doesn't yet realize just how inappropriate Rick's comments were. Hopefully, after Amy has a chat about it, Chris will understand her side... and they can go from there.

As long as the "Rick is never welcome here" rule stays in place no matter what.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Cami on March 14, 2012, 02:18:49 PM
I am mystified as to why Amy is hesitant to discuss her feelings with her own husband.  Why does she believe that her feelings matter less -- especially since she was the one insulted? HER feelings should matter most.

I also asked my dh what he would do and he said that if someone insulted me in our home like that, he would have personally escorted him to the door and told him to delete our phone number from his address book because he'd never hear from us again. He most certainly wouldn't be whining about wanting to let it go and keeping the guy as a friend. He questions the husband's loyalties and priorities. As, frankly, do I.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Marbles on March 14, 2012, 07:26:43 PM
I'm with Weeblewobble. The man would never be invited to my home again. I'd be very clear that we was never to be around my children, either.

I would also add that I would be very upset if my DH made plans to get together one on one with Rick. Seeing him as part of a group? I'm not thrilled, but understand that DH can't control who the group includes. One on one? Oh, no; DH may as well say he supports what Rick was saying about me.

Amy needs to recognise that Chris is worried about his whole group of friends. Casting Rick out would make things difficult and uncomfortable for everyone. It's good that he sees that and is worried about it. Being a good friend is part of what makes him a good spouse. Chris needs to see that Amy's emotional needs must be his first priority. She is his wife, his family. There's no reason that Chris can't tell his closest buddies that Rick said some stuff that was out of line to his wife. Good friends will understand that it isn't cool.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Amara on March 15, 2012, 10:03:51 PM
OP, I have a question. Rick is part of Chris and Amy's social group. Can you tell us a bit more about the group. How long has it been one? How many members are there? Is it composed of couples and singles? Has Rick said nasty and/or insulting, even unpleasant things before to any one?

These answers wouldn't affect my response, which is that Rick should be removed from their private lives. He would never come in my home again, to be sure. I would expect my spouse to stand up for me, and to have immediately stood up for me at the time this incident happened. But, I am interested in the background because I think it important even if my answer doesn't change.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Reason on March 16, 2012, 11:16:42 AM
I would not dictate to my spouse on who he can be friends with. But I would let him know that Rick is on my "Cut-Direct" list and under no circumstances would he be invited to our house.

Plus, even though I won't actually tell him to "unfriend" Rick, I would be really hurt if he would choose to remain friends with someone who says and thinks such nasty things about me.

Etiquette and relationship issues are, unfortunately, not always on the same page.

I'm curious, do you think it would be appropriate for her to let him know that it hurts her, or should she keep that to herself? She so far has kept it to herself over the last week because she doesn't want to guilt trip Chris into making a different decision, but she's pretty upset about not being able to talk about it with him.

Yes, she certainly should make her feelings known. Frankly, Chris should feel guilty -- if he didn't toss Rick out on his ear for what he said, then Chris is condoning it. This isn't a friend problem, this is a husband problem. I don't think very much of someone who would let a "friend" say that to their spouse.

She's perfectly within her rights to ban Rick from her presence and Chris needs to support her in that.

I agree with ark. After this incident, the husband should have thrown the other guy out of the house on the spot without needing to be asked.

At the very least the husband should have demanded that the "friend" show proper respect and apologize at once, but only if there were extenuating circumstances such as excessive alcohol intake or mental illness on the part of the "friend". Otherwise, the "friend" would be lucky to leave with all his teeth intact in most households I can think of.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: wolfie on March 16, 2012, 12:46:21 PM
I'm with Weeblewobble. The man would never be invited to my home again. I'd be very clear that we was never to be around my children, either.

I would also add that I would be very upset if my DH made plans to get together one on one with Rick. Seeing him as part of a group? I'm not thrilled, but understand that DH can't control who the group includes. One on one? Oh, no; DH may as well say he supports what Rick was saying about me.

Amy needs to recognise that Chris is worried about his whole group of friends. Casting Rick out would make things difficult and uncomfortable for everyone. It's good that he sees that and is worried about it. Being a good friend is part of what makes him a good spouse. Chris needs to see that Amy's emotional needs must be his first priority. She is his wife, his family. There's no reason that Chris can't tell his closest buddies that Rick said some stuff that was out of line to his wife. Good friends will understand that it isn't cool.

Or it could bring a lot of relief. If Rick insulted the other people in the group they could all be thinking how nice it would be without him but don't do anything because they are afraid of what the other people will think. But once someone steps forward they are more then happy to agree with them.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: TealDragon on March 16, 2012, 05:15:35 PM
OP, I have a question. Rick is part of Chris and Amy's social group. Can you tell us a bit more about the group. How long has it been one? How many members are there? Is it composed of couples and singles? Has Rick said nasty and/or insulting, even unpleasant things before to any one?

These answers wouldn't affect my response, which is that Rick should be removed from their private lives. He would never come in my home again, to be sure. I would expect my spouse to stand up for me, and to have immediately stood up for me at the time this incident happened. But, I am interested in the background because I think it important even if my answer doesn't change.

There are 6 people in their close social group and then several people that are sometimes around, I think. Two couples and two singles. They have a weekly board game night. I don't really know every individual very well, Amy and I are actually friends from high school  and we live in different states now so I've really only met them all a few times. I think about half of them met in college, so some of them have been friends for 6-10 years and I don't know how all of them know each other, but they've all known each other for probably around 3-4 years. Chris and Rick did meet in college and as far as I know, he's never said anything that inflammatory, but like I mentioned before, he's kind of a weird guy and he doesn't seem like he has much of a filter for what is ok or not ok to say so I've heard stories in the past about him having small arguments with people because he didn't understand why a joke was offensive or something like that, but I haven't heard of him saying anything so outright nasty. I don't get the impression that he's a mean person, but more that he just really has no clue about conventionally acceptable social behavior.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 17, 2012, 01:43:43 AM
Thank for the additional information, op. I feel more strongly than ever, it is time for someone else to take on the responsibility of dufus social education. I will be interested if your friend can demand the respect she deserves. If she becomes doormat to dufus in the name of preserving dh circle of friends, than she will have difficulty being a good parent as her kids grow up and need limits set.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: TealDragon on March 17, 2012, 05:30:47 AM
Well I talked to her yesterday, and she's as strong in her decision as she was the night she first called me after it all happened. So that seems pretty good. It's only been about two weeks, but I don't really see her giving in. And in response to those wondering why her husband didn't kick Rick out, I don't believe he would have had a chance. Amy can definitely hold her own in a confrontation. :)

She said Chris thought long and hard about things and decided it would be best for him to not be involved with Rick. Since he doesn't want to put everyone else in an awkward spot, he's not going to make a fuss if Rick is involved in a group activity, but their interactions will be limited. Amy also had a talk with her kids and they said they thought he was really dumb and her daughter said she would have had to ask if Amy was taken away by the aliens if she'd let her have dessert after acting like she did. Kids are too funny sometimes.
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Winterlight on March 17, 2012, 01:14:07 PM
Well I talked to her yesterday, and she's as strong in her decision as she was the night she first called me after it all happened. So that seems pretty good. It's only been about two weeks, but I don't really see her giving in. And in response to those wondering why her husband didn't kick Rick out, I don't believe he would have had a chance. Amy can definitely hold her own in a confrontation. :)

She said Chris thought long and hard about things and decided it would be best for him to not be involved with Rick. Since he doesn't want to put everyone else in an awkward spot, he's not going to make a fuss if Rick is involved in a group activity, but their interactions will be limited. Amy also had a talk with her kids and they said they thought he was really dumb and her daughter said she would have had to ask if Amy was taken away by the aliens if she'd let her have dessert after acting like she did. Kids are too funny sometimes.

This sounds like the sensible way to handle it. LOLing at daughter- "Mom's been nabbed by aliens- eat fast before she gets back!"
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: Softly Spoken on March 18, 2012, 02:05:13 AM
Well I guess all I can really do at this point is POD what everyone else said, and say I"m glad it is working out and that I love what the daughter said. ;D
Reading about this situation I am reminded again how much rude behavior happens because people let it happen. And so often people let it happen because they don't know how to confront or (biggest catch-22 ever) they feel their challenging the behavior is somehow rude as well.
When Rick said those things, the appropriate response of all involved would be as follows:
1) Open mouthed stare.
2) Icy pause.
3) "What the heck did you just say?"/ "Dude, that is not cool." / "Excuse me?"
4) Shun / Demand apology / Kick Rick out or any combination thereof.

The thing about this situation (if taken at face value) is Rick has absolutely no defense. This was not a misunderstanding, joke gone wrong/too far or a culture clash etc. There are things you. just. don't. do. They include insulting people and questioning/challenging/criticizing anyone's parenting choices. And you especially don't do either too their face and in their house.

With an attitude like that and no filter, Rick is lucky he has any friends. Toxic.
...
*Must make sure and think of cute kid and alien joke when I go to bed so I can calm down... :P*
Title: Re: Significant others and their friends
Post by: MacadamiaNut on March 18, 2012, 09:13:01 AM
Well I guess all I can really do at this point is POD what everyone else said, and say I"m glad it is working out and that I love what the daughter said. ;D
Reading about this situation I am reminded again how much rude behavior happens because people let it happen. And so often people let it happen because they don't know how to confront or (biggest catch-22 ever) they feel their challenging the behavior is somehow rude as well.
When Rick said those things, the appropriate response of all involved would be as follows:
1) Open mouthed stare.
2) Icy pause.
3) "What the heck did you just say?"/ "Dude, that is not cool." / "Excuse me?"
4) Shun / Demand apology / Kick Rick out or any combination thereof.

The thing about this situation (if taken at face value) is Rick has absolutely no defense. This was not a misunderstanding, joke gone wrong/too far or a culture clash etc. There are things you. just. don't. do. They include insulting people and questioning/challenging/criticizing anyone's parenting choices. And you especially don't do either too their face and in their house.

With an attitude like that and no filter, Rick is lucky he has any friends. Toxic.
...
*Must make sure and think of cute kid and alien joke when I go to bed so I can calm down... :P*

I completely agree with this.  Especially the bolded and the four reaction steps you listed!