Etiquette Hell

Etiquette School is in session! => The Ehell Guide to Never Behaving Badly => Topic started by: Ciarrai on April 07, 2012, 09:34:45 AM

Title: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Ciarrai on April 07, 2012, 09:34:45 AM
For parents:
 - While it may possibly be true, it's never okay to say "You'll change your mind!" or "It's different when they're yours!"

 - It's also not nice to say "But who will take care of you when you're old?"

 - Not all childfree people hate children.

 - Each couple's reasons for being childfree are their own. Questioning them at length isn't etiquette-approved.

 - A woman has not failed as a woman because she doesn't have or want children.


For the childfree:
 - It's not nice to compare a pregnant woman to a farm animal or a person who breeds puppies.

 - Holding forth about your reasons for being childfree, whether in front of children or not, is not welcome.

 - It's not okay to be rude to a child's face, even if you don't like children.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: shhh its me on April 07, 2012, 04:14:22 PM
  Good one....
Parents
Your children are not invited unless they are actually invited. 
Your child is the center of your universe only.  limit conversation and pictures to appropriate amounts and sometimes none is the appropriate amount (clue if 50 adults 40 of whom are parents or grandparents are at an event in someone honnor and no one else is showing pictures of their kids you shouldn't either)
No one wants to hear about poop unless they specifically ask about poop. " How are you?"/"what's new?"  is not asking for a description of the contents last night diaper


Childfree
Children are not a special category of conversation , that can be react rudely to. Kids are a part of parents life , some conversations will be about children and just like some conversation will be about  work,  spouse , parents , sibling , boy/girlfriend problems, hobbies , pets, plost of movies you didn't see etc.      Note childeren are also not a special category of conversation that can be talked about endlessly.   

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on April 07, 2012, 04:21:58 PM
For the Childfree - you are not the only one in the world - expect to see families in public...if they make reasonable noise deal, stop with the eye rolls and snarky
comments as soon as you see them, give them a chance to "prove" themselves, before getting upset.

The converse for the parents - Public space is just that don't expect your kids to be able to act like they would in your backyard...especially in doors.

For the Childfree - don't purposefully block access to prove a point take a reasonable amount of time and let someone else see/do/experience/whatever...they do have the right to be there too.

For the Parents - don't expect people to yield the best seats/viewing area/ect to your kids...others have the right to be there/experience/do/whatever too and if they are there first; they likely got their early or paid more to be where they are...they don't have to move over and cede the best of whatever merely because a child is present.

For the Childfree - don't  be a jerk and use more swear words than usual just because a kid is there and you want to make a point, curbing it because you're in Public is the kind thing to do.

For the Parent: If someone slips up - talk to oyur kids about how we don't use that if you want, but making a scene to the person is rude and will ensure your kids remember that word.

For the Childfree: If a kid comes in your yard tell them politely to stay out...yelling, screaming whatever is rude and will ensure the kid does it more to get the reaction and that the parent gets up in arms.

Parents: teach your kid to stay out of other's yards without an invite. But don't expect your neighbors will know which kid belongs to whom and respect their right to not have kids tresspassing and back the homeowner up with regards to their desires for their property to be used for a play area or cut through.

For the Child Free- if a kid happens to leave a bike or toy in your yard or drive way don't toss it, drive over it, destroy it or keep it - returning it to the parent soley to alert them to an on going issue is acceptable.

For the Parent - do not tell neighbors to "just deal" because "that's part of being in a neighborhood" -you would not want them using your property for their convenience any more they want your kids doing the same thing to their property...how would you feel if their party "spilled ove" into your yard? would it be different if you had to move their stuff in order to pull in your driveway or to cut your lawn...especially if it were an almost daily occurance.

For the Childfree - it won't kill you to acknowledge a kid once...either with a nod or a Hi - engaging them in a full on conversation in a public place is not necessary.  In a party or as a guest in your home, you might want to give them a bit more, but in the public arena would you not give a nod or a "hi" to an adult? The same is true for a kid

For the Parent - do notallow you kid to bother those who have given every indication of wanting to be left alone "hihihihhihihihihihihi" or other such occurrences that are intrusive are not acceptable...and the person on the receiving end  is not being rude if they ask to be left alone

For the Childfree - be careful how you judge parents, looking at a situation with kindness will often help them and you.

For the Parent - we all know that some kids are not neurotypical or however you want to call if...but even those who aren't need boundaries and guidance..,people will be more understanding if they can see yuo are dealing with the issue and not just letting yur kid run rampant over others no matter what the reason for the problem - but if they see you leaving a kid to trantrum/meltdown/explore their voices/what have you so that there is no escape even in a warehouse store then don't be surprised if there are comments and/or sighs, ect.



For both - there are two sides to each encounter a little understanding, tolerance and kindness on all parts goes a long way.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: hyzenthlay on April 07, 2012, 04:34:21 PM
Childfree: If you extend an offer to host a child, please adjust your hosting for the child, don't expect the parents to keep a prison escort grasp on their toddler for the duration of the event. (And please don't feel you have to extend an invite, any parents offended that you don't isn't anyone you need to socialize with anyway.)

Parents: Dont' fish for invitations for your kids, and be mentally ready to maintain a prison escort grasp of your kids and leave early even if they ARE invited. I've taken my kids to parties where my parents friends very much wanted to meet them, and having thanked my host graciously left an hour later exhausted from preventing breakage and/or tantrums.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Black Delphinium on April 07, 2012, 04:43:00 PM
For the child-free: Recoiling from a child's attempt to initial physical contact is every bit as rude as recoiling from an adult. There are better ways to react.

For parents: Not everyone wants to engage in physical contact with your child(ren). Telling little Jenny to "give Del a kiss" without establishing that Del is okay with kid kisses is presumptuous and rude.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: kherbert05 on April 07, 2012, 05:26:11 PM

Parents -  Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't understand them. In my case I'm a teacher.


Don't yell at me for addressing your child, when I'm apologizing for nearly running into them with the grocery cart because I saw them at the last minute.



Please for the love of everything don't force your child to have physical contact with anyone. It is completely the wrong message to send. Yes verbal kids should say hello, engage in polite conversation for short periods, and say good bye. They should not be forced to hug or kiss people. (Handshakes are ok.)


When I jump away from your kid - and everyone in the room who knows me is scrambling to grab him before can hug me - LISTEN. I'm not a horrible person who is being mean to your kid. Your kid has cracker jacks in his hands and I'm allergic. It has been 7 years and this woman still talks about the time I was mean to precious. Oh and my Mom had died the day we met at my sister's house. She wanted me to leave since precious was making me nervous. Thankfully sis and her friends don't like her or her kid much, so she isn't around very often. She is only around when all the husbands are there also. (She is the wife of BIL's friend)


Childfree -
Kids do have a right to be in public.


Stop screaming about unattended children at the library
a) Harris county policy says kids have an equal right to be at the library as you (see policy here go down to section e) (http://www.hcpl.net/about/problem-behavior-policy)
b) Harris county does not require the children have an adult with them
c) they are behaving appropriately - you on the other hand are screaming in the library. 


At a restaurant where you order at the counter. Just because my niece, nephew, and cousin are under 18 doesn't mean they can't sit at a table drinking their drinks while I pick up our lunches from the counter (took me multiple trips - the crowd was to dense for the kids to carry their own food). You don't get to order them to move because your party wants the table. Woman was going to do the self same thing, sit and wait for her party to get her food.  She raised such a fuss the manager asked her party to leave, and gave the kids a brownie for being so polite.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on April 07, 2012, 05:34:15 PM
For the child-free: Recoiling from a child's attempt to initial physical contact is every bit as rude as recoiling from an adult. There are better ways to react.

For parents: Not everyone wants to engage in physical contact with your child(ren). Telling little Jenny to "give Del a kiss" without establishing that Del is okay with kid kisses is presumptuous and rude.

Sorry, I disagree. No one has to suffer unwanted contact no matter who it's from.  There may be  more and less polite ways to handle it but simply refusing to be touched when you do not want  physical contact is not rude. I've seen threads here on how to avoid unwanted contact crossing your arms in front of you, offering a stiff armed handshake, ect, one should not be forced to submit to unwanted contact just because a kid is involved.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: cabbagegirl28 on April 07, 2012, 05:38:28 PM
For the child-free: Recoiling from a child's attempt to initial physical contact is every bit as rude as recoiling from an adult. There are better ways to react.

For parents: Not everyone wants to engage in physical contact with your child(ren). Telling little Jenny to "give Del a kiss" without establishing that Del is okay with kid kisses is presumptuous and rude.

Sorry, I disagree. No one has to suffer unwanted contact no matter who it's from.  There may be  more and less polite ways to handle it but simply refusing to be touched when you do not want  physical contact is not rude. I've seen threads here on how to avoid unwanted contact crossing your arms in front of you, offering a stiff armed handshake, ect, one should not be forced to submit to unwanted contact just because a kid is involved.

Seriously. If someone touched me without my permission, I'd yank myself away as fast I could. Now, if it were a child, I would try not to hurt the child in doing so, because he/she may not understand boundaries and is probably smaller than I am. However, all I would do is move as quickly as I could and say, "Don't touch me." I wouldn't have a pluperfect fit over it (not saying that you implied that, Black Delphinium), but it's not bad for me to back away from them.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: shhh its me on April 07, 2012, 05:41:04 PM
For the child-free: Recoiling from a child's attempt to initial physical contact is every bit as rude as recoiling from an adult. There are better ways to react.

For parents: Not everyone wants to engage in physical contact with your child(ren). Telling little Jenny to "give Del a kiss" without establishing that Del is okay with kid kisses is presumptuous and rude.

Sorry, I disagree. No one has to suffer unwanted contact no matter who it's from.  There may be  more and less polite ways to handle it but simply refusing to be touched when you do not want  physical contact is not rude. I've seen threads here on how to avoid unwanted contact crossing your arms in front of you, offering a stiff armed handshake, ect, one should not be forced to submit to unwanted contact just because a kid is involved.
I think that's actually what OP was saying , the actual act of recoiling not avoiding contact even backing away is not the same as recoiling.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Black Delphinium on April 07, 2012, 06:20:01 PM
For the child-free: Recoiling from a child's attempt to initial physical contact is every bit as rude as recoiling from an adult. There are better ways to react.

For parents: Not everyone wants to engage in physical contact with your child(ren). Telling little Jenny to "give Del a kiss" without establishing that Del is okay with kid kisses is presumptuous and rude.

Sorry, I disagree. No one has to suffer unwanted contact no matter who it's from.  There may be  more and less polite ways to handle it but simply refusing to be touched when you do not want  physical contact is not rude. I've seen threads here on how to avoid unwanted contact crossing your arms in front of you, offering a stiff armed handshake, ect, one should not be forced to submit to unwanted contact just because a kid is involved.
I think that's actually what OP was saying , the actual act of recoiling not avoiding contact even backing away is not the same as recoiling.
Thank you, yes, that was the point I was trying to make. It's okay to refuse,but unless there is a case like kherbert05's where there is genuine threat of illness or harm, recoiling(which to me implies making a scene) is a rude act.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Really? on April 07, 2012, 08:03:10 PM
to parents: When you tell you child to hug/kiss me, don't get upset when I tell the child its ok they don't have to. I have seen them hestitate and I"m ok with that.

Also when you're child says they don't want to hug someone, and the other person makes a fuss, side with your child and respect that they have an opinion (as long as their not being rude about it).
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on April 07, 2012, 09:39:01 PM
Parents- Please understand that when I invite you over, I mean you, not you and your kids.  I'm not being rude or nasty.  My house is old.  The basement stairs are steep.  I have a lot of breakable things.  I have two dogs and three cats, none of which are very child-experienced.  In short, my house is pretty much exactly the opposite of what you think of when you think of someplace that is safe for a small child.  While I don't like kids, I certainly don't wish them harm and would hate to see your child take a tumble down my stairs, or get bowled over by one of my pets, or for both you and I to feel badly if we moved too slowly to stop your child from breaking something accidentally.  Please understand I don't "hate" your kids.  My home is just an inappropriate place for them.

Childfree- Please understand that sometimes, little kids have meltdowns, and there's nothing a parent or anyone can do to stop it.  I've seen it happen.  It's loud.  It's irritating.  It's awful.  And sometimes, it's just plain unstoppable.  Rolling your eyes, huffing or sighing or saying "Someone needs to shut that kid up."  All those things are unhelpful and unnecessary.  It's also embarrassing for the parents, and sometimes it's in a situation, like on a bus or a train, where the child just can't be removed from the vicinity to calm down.  It just happens.  Just because someone has a small child doesn't mean that neither they nor their kids should be allowed in public until the kids are past the "meltdown" stage.  Yeah, it sucks.  I know it sucks.  But sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: SamiHami on April 07, 2012, 10:48:49 PM
This is a great topic. As a blissfully childree person (23rd anniverary is tomorrow so really not likely to change my mind), it is easy for me to lose patience with kids I (except for those related to me). I honestly don't dislike kids; I just don't spend much time with them.

Now, if I'm in a restaurant and child is wailing away, yes, I will get irritated. But, on an airplane, sure-I understand. Air pressure changes and no way to remove a child from the situation. I won't pretend to be happy, but I won't give the parents grief, either. Sometimes you just have to deal.

Anyway, this is a good reminder for parents and non-parents to see each others' points of view.

As for who will take care of DH and I when we're old; I've already put my nieces on  notice that they MUST marry rich so that they can take care of us as well as their parents. ;D
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: buvezdevin on April 07, 2012, 11:22:33 PM
No rules to add, but comment on two prior points:

1.  Re the child initiated physical contact, can we add a rider that the child free, and possibly the child-Ed are not dressed in every circumstance to engage with a child.  Thinking of a suited fellow, shortly covered in child detritus, and one occasion I was enthusiastically, spontaneously hugged by a child who was engaged in finger painting immediately prior to hugging me.  In neither case was there any bad feeling, the suited guy was also a parent, understood, and in my own case, I was wearing clothingg which could be readily washed and not headed to an event where some smudges of hand paint were a problem.  It *would* not in either case have reflected well on the parents of the children involved to suggest that any recoiling or avoidance of the children was inappropriate ( neither happened in a specific family/child area, just a common area at a group function where some had children, and brought things to occupy the kids).

2.  As a very mature (in years) adult who never had children, but also including my observations of those who did have children, but are well past current small child raising experience, when we do include your children in an invitation to an activity, and especially at our home, please do not assume we understand without your guidance, what may actually be needed in the way of child-proofing or having a child friendly environment.  I might get it right, but our collective likelihood of an enjoyable experience will only be heightened by you pointing out or suggesting things which will not automatically occur to me, and I will appreciate pointers.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: General Jinjur on April 08, 2012, 06:54:13 AM
Parents: Don't be a jerk.

Childfree: Don't be a jerk.

Everybody in the world, ever: Don't be jerks.

There, world peace is sure to follow  :)
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: gorplady on April 08, 2012, 08:00:17 AM
Parents: Don't be a jerk.

Childfree: Don't be a jerk.

Everybody in the world, ever: Don't be jerks.

There, world peace is sure to follow  :)

Truer words were never spoken.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Cosmasia on April 08, 2012, 12:02:19 PM
Parents: don't mommy/daddy-jack conversations, online statuses and basically anything else. If you really want to say something about your kid(s) then make your own status, start your own conversation with someone who might be interested etc. Don't jack!
Also please don't post photos of your childrens poop on your facebook. Please.  :(

Childfree: Don't comment on parent's statuses about their children saying how glad you are that they aren't yours, or how boring it sounds etc.
If you have friends with children, it's not very nice to post statuses about how much all parents ever just suck. Be mindful of your friendships!
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on April 08, 2012, 12:23:35 PM
I think this is a great thread. :)   I have kids and love all 3 of my boys dearly but for some reason it's turned out that my closest friends are childless/childfree.   

Parents: Don't discount the advice of the childless/childfree simply because they don't have any of their own children.  Some of the best parenting advice I've ever received has been from my childless/childfree friends because they do have some experience in dealing with children either from babysitting or helping to care for nieces/nephews/younger siblings.   

And to the parents who spoil their kids rotten to ensure they grow up to be special snowflakes: Please stop, you're making the rest of the parents of the world look bad. lol.

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Ciarrai on April 08, 2012, 02:20:05 PM
Parents: Please don't put your child on the phone when I call to talk to you. Yes he's cute, but I called to talk to you.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Black Delphinium on April 08, 2012, 02:42:51 PM
Parents: Please don't put your child on the phone when I call to talk to you. Yes he's cute, but I called to talk to you.
Or at least ask first. Maybe I have time to say hi to Suzie, maybe I do not.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: diesel_darlin on April 08, 2012, 09:32:34 PM
Parents: Please don't put your child on the phone when I call to talk to you. Yes he's cute, but I called to talk to you.
Or at least ask first. Maybe I have time to say hi to Suzie, maybe I do not.


Absolutely. And please do not wait until someone is trying to tell you(general you) something important, or something that isn't made for little ears and hand the phone over to Suzie. Its quite a shock when you have been talking about something thinking you're talking to mom/dad and Suzie yells "hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii" into the receiver.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: kareng57 on April 08, 2012, 10:00:12 PM
I think this is a great thread. :)   I have kids and love all 3 of my boys dearly but for some reason it's turned out that my closest friends are childless/childfree.   

Parents: Don't discount the advice of the childless/childfree simply because they don't have any of their own children.  Some of the best parenting advice I've ever received has been from my childless/childfree friends because they do have some experience in dealing with children either from babysitting or helping to care for nieces/nephews/younger siblings.   

And to the parents who spoil their kids rotten to ensure they grow up to be special snowflakes: Please stop, you're making the rest of the parents of the world look bad. lol.


Very true.  One of our close, childfree friends was the first one to notice that sometimes DS #2 connived to get DS #1 into trouble.  I was a bit surprised, but was too close to the situation to really see it - and once he pointed it out, yes - he was right.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on April 09, 2012, 07:51:31 AM
Parents: When you go out for a night out with the girls, it is a night away from the baby. Therefore, it is perfectly acceptable/expected, to talk about other subjects. Every conversation does not have to come back to your little one.

Childfree: When a parent comes out with you for a night out with the girls, it is a night away from the baby. Therefore, it is perfectly acceptable/expected, to talk about other subjects. Every conversation does not have to come back to their little one.

There needs to be a balance. IME people love hearing one or two stories about the baby if they ask. If they ask! If they do not ask, assume not interested and steer clear from the conversation (not difficult for me, I just concentrate on enjoying the adult conversation and find myself again!).  People do not like being forced or pressed to talk about anything and my childless friends do sometimes sit there and ask me question after question after question about DS. They ask to see photos. Look, I like talking about him (as you know lol) but...there is a limit.  I'm friends with another Mum I go out with and we were talking about this exact thing and we both agree on this.




 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Auntie Mame on April 09, 2012, 01:26:19 PM
Dear parents:
1) I am under no obligation to defend my decision to you, I have my reasons and they are private
2) Choosing not to have children is not a direct attack on those who do.  It is simply a different choice, stop immediately jumping to the wrong conclusion and accusing me of everything from hating to children to causing earthquakes
3) Asking "do you like children?" is a question that does not make sense to me.  I don't ask "do you like adults?".  I like some children, I don't like others.  That applies across the board, I like some people, I do not like others.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: diesel_darlin on April 09, 2012, 02:41:41 PM
Dear parents:
1) I am under no obligation to defend my decision to you, I have my reasons and they are private
2) Choosing not to have children is not a direct attack on those who do.  It is simply a different choice, stop immediately jumping to the wrong conclusion and accusing me of everything from hating to children to causing earthquakes
3) Asking "do you like children?" is a question that does not make sense to me.  I don't ask "do you like adults?".  I like some children, I don't like others.  That applies across the board, I like some people, I do not like others.

This. Oh so much.

Yes, I like children. Very much so! Especially if said children can be handed back to their mommy and/or daddy as soon as they get tired, cranky, or a poopy diaper.  ;D


Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on April 09, 2012, 03:10:05 PM
Parents: Do not imply that someone who chooses not to have children is selfish because they elected not to reproduce.  That is not a selfish choice in the least, and is in fact less selfish than reproducing just so you can have someone take care of you when you're old.  If someone feels they would not make a good parent, it's quite unselfish of them to make sure they don't reproduce.

And besides, best way to ensure you have someone to take care of you when you're old? Be nice to those younger than yourself. LOL   Even if people have children, if they're toxic towards them and the kids find a backbone, they'll likely find themselves without someone to look after them.   And the people without kids? Well there's always favorite nieces and nephews or friends. :)

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on April 09, 2012, 03:32:33 PM
For the Childfree - it won't kill you to acknowledge a kid once...either with a nod or a Hi - engaging them in a full on conversation in a public place is not necessary.  In a party or as a guest in your home, you might want to give them a bit more, but in the public arena would you not give a nod or a "hi" to an adult? The same is true for a kid

Rebuttal:  For the Parents - Understand that there are some childfree adults (especially males) who are uncomfortable acknowledging children in public, for many reasons.  In some places, simply being male and in a public park gets you a visit from the impeccably dressed people with hats and radios.  Also, some parents have been known to give the stinkeye for simply *looking* at their child.  (also for the Parents - don't give the stinkeye for someone simply looking at your child!)  So be understanding when the person passing you on the street stares straight ahead even as Johnny or Sally tries to make contact.  It's a learned survival trait in many cases.

For the Childfree - Remember that children are people too.  There's nothing wrong with talking to them as if they were an adult (within reason!)  I had a kid's ball roll up to me a week ago while I was out walking.  He shyly held his hands out and pointed to the ball.  I picked it up, gave it a good toss, and said "There you go, dude."  Just like I would have to an adult.  Not a good example, but it's the most recent one I've got.  I'm just saying, lay off the baby-talk (and other affectations) when you chat to a kid.  They know what adults sound like, and appreciate hearing it directed toward them, in my experience.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on April 09, 2012, 04:14:04 PM

For the Childfree - Remember that children are people too.  There's nothing wrong with talking to them as if they were an adult (within reason!)  I had a kid's ball roll up to me a week ago while I was out walking.  He shyly held his hands out and pointed to the ball.  I picked it up, gave it a good toss, and said "There you go, dude."  Just like I would have to an adult.  Not a good example, but it's the most recent one I've got.  I'm just saying, lay off the baby-talk (and other affectations) when you chat to a kid.  They know what adults sound like, and appreciate hearing it directed toward them, in my experience.

Heck, most kids I know appreciate adults who don't talk down to them! My favorite adults when I was growing up were the aunts and uncles who spoke to me like an equal and not just a little kid.   When I was pregnant, my best friend who is CF said "I'm not going to be doing any baby talk with this kid!" I told her that was just fine with me, as I don't believe in using baby talk with infants.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: FoxPaws on April 09, 2012, 04:32:35 PM
Don't make assumptions regarding peoplesí attitudes toward children based on their age, gender, or relationship to specific kids.

All older folks are not doting grandparents; all teenage girls are not dying to babysit; all males are not hopeless clods when it comes to babies.

Not even all parents are universal ďkid peopleĒ - many have just enough energy/patience/stamina to deal with their own offspring and that's it. And just because someone is willing to babysit a niece/nephew/godchild doesn't mean they're willing to do it for anyone else.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Ciarrai on May 10, 2012, 09:52:50 AM
Please, please don't ask a couple why they got married if they don't want to have children. There are many other reasons to get married other than procreating.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 10, 2012, 11:19:17 AM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on May 10, 2012, 12:13:45 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

Married couples should have kids so they find themselves trapped in the marriage with no easy out?  Whaaaaaa?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 10, 2012, 12:28:46 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

Married couples should have kids so they find themselves trapped in the marriage with no easy out?  Whaaaaaa?

Yeah, I know, right?  That didn't compute then and it still doesn't! 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: violinp on May 10, 2012, 12:32:05 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

Married couples should have kids so they find themselves trapped in the marriage with no easy out?  Whaaaaaa?

In that logic, it's supposed to make you think of the children, so you work harder at making the marriage work. Never mind that said children are watching their parents be unhappy in marriage.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: cabbagegirl28 on May 10, 2012, 01:33:27 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

One of my friends told me the same opinion. Considering the specific person's religion (Royal Shade of the Blue religion), it makes some sense, because they have the opinion that children are always a blessing. However, the same religion would not approve of her solution to childfree couples: just live together, and not get married, because there's no point to marriage if you have no kids.

I told her that marriage is a property contract, not a direct order to procreate. She can live how she wants, but she needs to get her nose out of other people's business.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on May 10, 2012, 01:43:36 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

One of my friends told me the same opinion. Considering the specific person's religion (Royal Shade of the Blue religion), it makes some sense, because they have the opinion that children are always a blessing. However, the same religion would not approve of her solution to childfree couples: just live together, and not get married, because there's no point to marriage if you have no kids.

I told her that marriage is a property contract, not a direct order to procreate. She can live how she wants, but she needs to get her nose out of other people's business.

Menendez brothers?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: cabbagegirl28 on May 10, 2012, 04:29:14 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

One of my friends told me the same opinion. Considering the specific person's religion (Royal Shade of the Blue religion), it makes some sense, because they have the opinion that children are always a blessing. However, the same religion would not approve of her solution to childfree couples: just live together, and not get married, because there's no point to marriage if you have no kids.

I told her that marriage is a property contract, not a direct order to procreate. She can live how she wants, but she needs to get her nose out of other people's business.

Menendez brothers?

Yeah, I didn't even touch that part with her. She's got a whole 'nother skew on life than I do, and I knew it would be impossible to argue with her without making her feel bad. I was also much more doormatty then and wouldn't leave when I got uncomfortable with stuff she said.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: wendelenn on May 10, 2012, 08:28:45 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

One of my friends told me the same opinion. Considering the specific person's religion (Royal Shade of the Blue religion), it makes some sense, because they have the opinion that children are always a blessing. However, the same religion would not approve of her solution to childfree couples: just live together, and not get married, because there's no point to marriage if you have no kids.
I told her that marriage is a property contract, not a direct order to procreate. She can live how she wants, but she needs to get her nose out of other people's business.

What would she say to the infertile? The same?  How about my mom, who at 77 and widowed is about to remarry?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 10, 2012, 08:50:21 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

Married couples should have kids so they find themselves trapped in the marriage with no easy out?  Whaaaaaa?

In that logic, it's supposed to make you think of the children, so you work harder at making the marriage work. Never mind that said children are watching their parents be unhappy in marriage.

And while I don't think that was the reason my parents had children, I know for sure that my brother and I are the reason they stayed together. I have also had friends who were the youngest of the family and once they left home, their parents separated.

On a slightly related topic, my best friend and I were discussing this sort of thing last year. She is in the Midwest, single and childless whereas I'm on the East Coast, married with kids.  When I was expecting last year she said she felt unnatural because she had never married and had kids, and she said in the Midwest, at least of her generation (she's 20 some years my senior), it is considered odd if a woman never marries or has kids. 

I have noticed though, at least with some of the people I've known while living on the coast, that when people meet a single women with no kids or desire for any it's not as "weird" as it is the idea of people marrying and having kids.

I really don't know if it's a difference in generation, location or both...
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: nuit93 on May 11, 2012, 01:47:49 AM
Please, please don't ask a couple why they got married if they don't want to have children. There are many other reasons to get married other than procreating.

THIS X1000
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: nuit93 on May 11, 2012, 02:00:08 AM
Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so. 
You are not better than someone who has reproduced.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Midnight Kitty on May 11, 2012, 08:22:58 PM
I don't have children.  It wasn't our choice, but we are content with our lives.  People should not assume that childless/CF couples don't have children by choice.  Nor should they assume that we are all frustrated parents who won't feel fulfilled until we have children in our house.  My SIL could not comprehend why we aren't adopting since we did not conceive before I went through the change.  I just looked at her in horror.  My life is full with a demanding, rewarding career, a disabled husband, an elderly cat, and one and a half horses (DH shareboards).  She doesn't understand how my life could be complete without a child.  I felt incomplete without a horse, but it's all good now.

All my life, until I hit 50, I enjoyed the company of children.  Now, not so much.  Maybe it is because more of the children I encounter these days are undisciplined and disruptive.  Many do not respect their parents or any other adults.  I find myself avoiding children and places where there will be lots of children.

I have been told that my life is wasted because my genetic material was not propagated.  In my not-so-humble opinion, it is more selfish to have children as a form of immortality than to make the world a better place through my accomplishments.  There may be selfish people who do not have children because they would have to share their partner's attention and affection.  Please don't assume I am one of them.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: cabbagegirl28 on May 11, 2012, 09:33:03 PM
Oh man, my dad was once telling me that he didn't understand why people married if they weren't going to have kids. He and Mom were friends with people from college and there were two couples who were married, sans kids.   He said he thought people who were married should have kids because it's not as easy to divorce when you have kids so people are more apt to try harder to make a marriage work. 

Considering they're still friends with those two other couples, and they haven't given him the cut, I think it's safe to say he never shared this delightful insight with them.   Heck I was a teenager and I found it incredibly insulting and stupid.

One of my friends told me the same opinion. Considering the specific person's religion (Royal Shade of the Blue religion), it makes some sense, because they have the opinion that children are always a blessing. However, the same religion would not approve of her solution to childfree couples: just live together, and not get married, because there's no point to marriage if you have no kids.
I told her that marriage is a property contract, not a direct order to procreate. She can live how she wants, but she needs to get her nose out of other people's business.

What would she say to the infertile? The same?  How about my mom, who at 77 and widowed is about to remarry?

This is all my friend's logic: The infertile wanted/tried to have children, so it's okay. For your mom, she's already had kids, so she's "done her duty".

My brain hurt to type that. My true opinion is that everyone who wants to make that lifetime commitment of marriage should do so, as long as they're marrying the person because they love that person and want to spend the rest of the life with that person. It doesn't matter whether the couple has kids or not.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on May 12, 2012, 09:41:50 AM
Parents: don't try and tell other parents that YOUR. way is the ONLY way. It is not, and you come across as PA and arrogant.

Child free: eye rolling every time the topic of kids comes up is insulting.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Garden Goblin on May 12, 2012, 09:49:24 AM
Not entirely childfree, but within the theme:

If a couple has one child of a particular age/gender and has stated on multiple occasions that they have no interest in additional children, giving them boxes of items geared towards a child of younger age and the opposite gender because you 'saw it and thought of them' is not acceptable behavior. 

Though the twin three year old girls down the street are about to have the best birthday ever.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 12, 2012, 11:08:42 AM
Parents do not expect your childfree friends and family to spend their holiday/party time babysitting your kids for you, because you :have them all the time" while it might be nice of them to spend time with younger relatives or the children of friends, their function at these things is NOT of babysitter. They did not have or bring the child, it's not their responsibility to spend the day caring for it.
 
Also do not let your  child go through the purses and bags of others...it does not matter if these things are left on the floor or whatnot, just because they are in view of your kid that does not turn them it into your child's playthings. No a woman does not have to stop carrying personal things such as medicine or other things that would fall under "personal", because you don't want to teach them to respect other's property.


can you tell these were issues at the Graduation party
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 14, 2012, 11:07:08 AM
Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.

You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

 Why should a childfree person be planning and hosting things with kids in mind.  While it may be easier for the parent, it's not the kids that a childfree person is friends with. I would feel really weird about hosting or being hosted by kids.
  I really think this is one of those things that can not be reciprocal. Part of good etiquette is reciprocity and when one person  is expected to do(spend, plan, change activities based on a third parties needs) much more in order to be "nice" in a relationship...it can cause resentment on the part of the one expected to change.  That childfree person is often having to accommodate the parent in many way already, even if it's taken for granted that the parent's life will change, so does the childfree person's social life change if they are going to remain friends. The expectation that they have to host the parent's child in order to be considered "nice" is a bit much...the converse of that is if you don't you're not "nice".
  Also - many people have their homes as childfree,,,so now they have to change that because it's easier for the parent to have some events hosted at the childfree person's home be ok for the kiddos? Or the childfree person is not "nice" - as a childfree person, I would resent the expectation. Luckily for me,, my parent friends are the type that like having my place be the place they come to have a childfree evening "out" with out spending a ton of money at a bar.
   
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: hobish on May 14, 2012, 11:25:11 AM
Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.

You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

I don't think so. Please show me where etiquette states i should open my home to children just because i can.
I have, in fact, hosted kids; i just disagree that a body should, just because they are able. I am *able* to do lots of things; etiquette does not dictate that means i *ought*. I really really really disagree with this.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 14, 2012, 11:28:45 AM
Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.

You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

I don't think so. Please show me where etiquette states i should open my home to children just because i can.
I have, in fact, hosted kids; i just disagree that a body should, just because they are able. I am *able* to do lots of things; etiquette does not dictate that means i *ought*. I really really really disagree with this.

yeah, I was trying to disagree too.. but  I hit post too early by mistake
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on May 14, 2012, 12:21:35 PM
Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.

You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

I don't think so. Please show me where etiquette states i should open my home to children just because i can.
I have, in fact, hosted kids; i just disagree that a body should, just because they are able. I am *able* to do lots of things; etiquette does not dictate that means i *ought*. I really really really disagree with this.

yeah, I was trying to disagree too.. but  I hit post too early by mistake

Not to dogpile on, but.... yeah.  I have cats, I have expensive electronics, I have done no childproofing of my home.  I don't hate kids, but I'm not modifying my lifestyle for anyone else's either.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: camlan on May 14, 2012, 01:00:21 PM
Nuit93 said that it was *nice* if you could host events that included children. Not that etiquette requires that you host children. And only if you were able to. Clearly, if your house isn't child-safe, hosting children is not a good idea.

You can have a sit-down formal dinner with just adults, or you can have a back-yard BBQ where the kids can run around without worrying about breaking things. Some small children love being invited to luncheon or a tea party and dressing up in their Sunday best and putting on their party manners and sipping lemonade while sitting still and in some cases, being better guests than some of the adults present. And others couldn't do that no matter how hard they try.

Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone you don't want to. But there's a difference between being polite and being nice. Nice is giving your neighbor a ride when you don't really want to. Etiquette is saying "no" to such requests politely, not rudely. Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone at all. Nice says that sometimes, if it is possible for you, including children might be a nice thing to do.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 14, 2012, 03:15:47 PM
Nuit93 said that it was *nice* if you could host events that included children. Not that etiquette requires that you host children. And only if you were able to. Clearly, if your house isn't child-safe, hosting children is not a good idea.

You can have a sit-down formal dinner with just adults, or you can have a back-yard BBQ where the kids can run around without worrying about breaking things. Some small children love being invited to luncheon or a tea party and dressing up in their Sunday best and putting on their party manners and sipping lemonade while sitting still and in some cases, being better guests than some of the adults present. And others couldn't do that no matter how hard they try.

Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone you don't want to. But there's a difference between being polite and being nice. Nice is giving your neighbor a ride when you don't really want to. Etiquette is saying "no" to such requests politely, not rudely. Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone at all. Nice says that sometimes, if it is possible for you, including children might be a nice thing to do.

            and the implication still is that if you don't you're not "nice". 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: camlan on May 14, 2012, 04:08:30 PM
Nuit93 said that it was *nice* if you could host events that included children. Not that etiquette requires that you host children. And only if you were able to. Clearly, if your house isn't child-safe, hosting children is not a good idea.

You can have a sit-down formal dinner with just adults, or you can have a back-yard BBQ where the kids can run around without worrying about breaking things. Some small children love being invited to luncheon or a tea party and dressing up in their Sunday best and putting on their party manners and sipping lemonade while sitting still and in some cases, being better guests than some of the adults present. And others couldn't do that no matter how hard they try.

Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone you don't want to. But there's a difference between being polite and being nice. Nice is giving your neighbor a ride when you don't really want to. Etiquette is saying "no" to such requests politely, not rudely. Etiquette doesn't require that you host anyone at all. Nice says that sometimes, if it is possible for you, including children might be a nice thing to do.

            and the implication still is that if you don't you're not "nice".

I guess we read that sentence in different ways. I didn't see it as saying you were "not nice" if you didn't host kids. Just that if you could, it would be a nice thing to do. I didn't see your interpretation at all. Now I do.

I guess I saw it this way. My house is not wheel-chair accessible. Therefore, I don't invite my brother's family here, because my nephew can't get his wheelchair inside. Instead, I go to see them. In the same way, if your house isn't child-proof, you don't invite children because it isn't safe.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: veryfluffy on May 14, 2012, 04:52:39 PM
This is, of course, not a sunshine-and-lollipops board. It is an etiquette board. So I'm not sure where discussions of what is nice or not nice are entirely relevant. There are all sorts of things that it would be "nice" for parents to do, or "nice" for the childfree to do -- but this doesn't have much place when discussing the etiquette on this topic.

Etiquette would say that IF you invite children, then you must make an effort to host them properly. It doesn't say you must invite them.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Corvid on May 14, 2012, 05:59:13 PM
Parents, please don't assume that because I don't have children of my own that I "don't have a family" and therefore should be perfectly happy to work all the holidays.  I have a beloved husband and come from quite a large family.  Sometimes they like to see me on holidays.  Even if I didn't have anyone else in my life, I am just as entitled to my share of holidays off as are you.

For some of my fellow childfree...by all ever considered holy by any of humankind, please stop whining.  Legitimate complaints are one thing, but honestly, sniveling about how a child crossed your path at Chuckie Cheese or that a pregnant woman dared appear in public before you when you walked by the local mall's maternity shop starts veering into the realm of idiocy.

And that's not as much hyperbole as you folks might think.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: nuit93 on May 14, 2012, 08:37:59 PM
Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.

You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

 Why should a childfree person be planning and hosting things with kids in mind.  While it may be easier for the parent, it's not the kids that a childfree person is friends with. I would feel really weird about hosting or being hosted by kids.
  I really think this is one of those things that can not be reciprocal. Part of good etiquette is reciprocity and when one person  is expected to do(spend, plan, change activities based on a third parties needs) much more in order to be "nice" in a relationship...it can cause resentment on the part of the one expected to change.  That childfree person is often having to accommodate the parent in many way already, even if it's taken for granted that the parent's life will change, so does the childfree person's social life change if they are going to remain friends. The expectation that they have to host the parent's child in order to be considered "nice" is a bit much...the converse of that is if you don't you're not "nice".
  Also - many people have their homes as childfree,,,so now they have to change that because it's easier for the parent to have some events hosted at the childfree person's home be ok for the kiddos? Or the childfree person is not "nice" - as a childfree person, I would resent the expectation. Luckily for me,, my parent friends are the type that like having my place be the place they come to have a childfree evening "out" with out spending a ton of money at a bar.
 

I was speaking as a CF person myself, so perhaps "nice" wasn't the best choice of words.  It's been my experience that some people won't go ANYWHERE without their kids, so if people want to socialize with them they need to invite the children as well.  But there are also plenty of reasons to not allow children in one's home (breakable stuff within reach, animals that aren't kid-friendly, etc.).

I'm not a huge kid person, but if I wanted to spend time with someone and the only way they could come over was with their kid I'm willing to be a bit flexible.  I don't think it's something that is required though.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 14, 2012, 09:09:37 PM
Parents: please don't try and tell me it's different "when they're my own", especially after you've spent the last ten minutes complaining about how hard your life has become now that you've reproduced.
Please don't assume my life is carefree/boring/meaningless because I don't have kids. 
Don't tell me "well, you won't be able to do *insert fun thing here* once you and SO have kids!".  Are you trying to talk me out of something I wasn't going to do anyways?
If you tell me "must be nice to be able to do that!", I'm going to assume you meant it in a non-passive-aggressive way and say "yes, it's awesome!", give you a big smile, and walk away.
You are not better than me because you reproduced. 
If a dating profile says "I'm not interested in dating someone with kids", move on.  Don't send a message to the person that includes the phrase "my kids are different!".  You're only wasting your time.

Childfree:
Don't make a big scene out of some child having a public meltdown.  We all did it at one point or another.  Just go on about your day and go home to your quiet, non-childed home.
Don't rant about "irresponsible parents of the human variety", "moos", and various other derogatory terms for parents and children.  At least not publicly. 
While it's certainly not required, it is NICE to host events where children are welcome IF you are able to do so.

You are not better than someone who has reproduced.

 Why should a childfree person be planning and hosting things with kids in mind.  While it may be easier for the parent, it's not the kids that a childfree person is friends with. I would feel really weird about hosting or being hosted by kids.
  I really think this is one of those things that can not be reciprocal. Part of good etiquette is reciprocity and when one person  is expected to do(spend, plan, change activities based on a third parties needs) much more in order to be "nice" in a relationship...it can cause resentment on the part of the one expected to change.  That childfree person is often having to accommodate the parent in many way already, even if it's taken for granted that the parent's life will change, so does the childfree person's social life change if they are going to remain friends. The expectation that they have to host the parent's child in order to be considered "nice" is a bit much...the converse of that is if you don't you're not "nice".
  Also - many people have their homes as childfree,,,so now they have to change that because it's easier for the parent to have some events hosted at the childfree person's home be ok for the kiddos? Or the childfree person is not "nice" - as a childfree person, I would resent the expectation. Luckily for me,, my parent friends are the type that like having my place be the place they come to have a childfree evening "out" with out spending a ton of money at a bar.
 

I was speaking as a CF person myself, so perhaps "nice" wasn't the best choice of words.  It's been my experience that some people won't go ANYWHERE without their kids, so if people want to socialize with them they need to invite the children as well.  But there are also plenty of reasons to not allow children in one's home (breakable stuff within reach, animals that aren't kid-friendly, etc.).

I'm not a huge kid person, but if I wanted to spend time with someone and the only way they could come over was with their kid I'm willing to be a bit flexible.  I don't think it's something that is required though.

   I would tell them what I wanted to do - and let them counter offer. But I would not be inviting them to my house if they can't be with out the kids. :)
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 15, 2012, 11:49:31 AM
Parents, please don't assume that because I don't have children of my own that I "don't have a family" and therefore should be perfectly happy to work all the holidays.  I have a beloved husband and come from quite a large family.  Sometimes they like to see me on holidays.  Even if I didn't have anyone else in my life, I am just as entitled to my share of holidays off as are you.

For some of my fellow childfree...by all ever considered holy by any of humankind, please stop whining.  Legitimate complaints are one thing, but honestly, sniveling about how a child crossed your path at Chuckie Cheese or that a pregnant woman dared appear in public before you when you walked by the local mall's maternity shop starts veering into the realm of idiocy.

And that's not as much hyperbole as you folks might think.

My best friend has complained about the bolded in the past, always being expected to cover shifts for those with family because she's single and doesn't have kids.  She still has a family in her sister and niece, as well as her sister's in laws. 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: POF on May 15, 2012, 12:04:08 PM
( I am a parent )

For Parents, ( especially my niece ... I am looking at you ). Do not assume that anyone else wants to spend the holiday dinner entertaining your toddler. Seriously, I did that whem my 2 were little, DH and I took turns eating, etc.  Do not pss them off to me or to anyone else. Do not ignore them screaming / crying and stick them in a playpen.  If someone offers to give you a break, fine ... but don't foist them off on other people. 

For Childfree ( more pertinent when the kids were little ): I am a working parent, DH works opposite shifts with me. Our free time is limited.  I will most likely decline invitations where I need a sitter or where it takes up a lot of time on the weekend. I understand that you want to host and have childfree events. Thats great, just remember that I will choose not to attend a lot of these and don't give me a hard time about it. Its your right to have something childfree every weekend, its my right to say  no. 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on May 15, 2012, 12:43:34 PM
Getting down to cases:

To the lady with the your girl on the bus yesterday morning:  There are plenty of free seats where you and your child can sit together.  Snottily telling me (not asking, telling) me that I need to move out of my seat because your child "likes that one best" is going to garner absolutely no reaction from me.  If there were no other free seats, I'd give you mine as a child standing on a moving bus is unsteady and likely to fall and that's a safety thing.  But when the bus is barely half full?  Pick any of the other seats.  I was here first.  If our roles were reversed and I told you you had to move because I like your seat best, you'd laugh me off the bus, and you'd be justified in doing so.

However, that being said, I also think it's extremely discourteous to not move seats for a small child if there are no free seats; that's down to a safety issue and I'm amazed at how often I see it.  I've given up my seat for a small child the same way as I've given up my seat for someone elderly/disabled....they cannot easily stand on a moving bus.  I can.  Seeing a little kid off-balance with the lurching bus makes me wince every time.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: camlan on May 15, 2012, 03:41:37 PM


However, that being said, I also think it's extremely discourteous to not move seats for a small child if there are no free seats; that's down to a safety issue and I'm amazed at how often I see it.  I've given up my seat for a small child the same way as I've given up my seat for someone elderly/disabled....they cannot easily stand on a moving bus.  I can.  Seeing a little kid off-balance with the lurching bus makes me wince every time.

This is a good point. I know sometimes people feel that adults have a greater right to sit down than children do. But when a small child can't reach any of the handholds on a bus or trolley, it is much safer for them to sit down.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: starbuck on May 15, 2012, 06:08:07 PM
Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 15, 2012, 07:27:22 PM
Getting down to cases:

To the lady with the your girl on the bus yesterday morning:  There are plenty of free seats where you and your child can sit together.  Snottily telling me (not asking, telling) me that I need to move out of my seat because your child "likes that one best" is going to garner absolutely no reaction from me.  If there were no other free seats, I'd give you mine as a child standing on a moving bus is unsteady and likely to fall and that's a safety thing.  But when the bus is barely half full?  Pick any of the other seats.  I was here first.  If our roles were reversed and I told you you had to move because I like your seat best, you'd laugh me off the bus, and you'd be justified in doing so.

However, that being said, I also think it's extremely discourteous to not move seats for a small child if there are no free seats; that's down to a safety issue and I'm amazed at how often I see it.  I've given up my seat for a small child the same way as I've given up my seat for someone elderly/disabled....they cannot easily stand on a moving bus.  I can.  Seeing a little kid off-balance with the lurching bus makes me wince every time.

  If someone does not move, It could be that they need the seat, too. Small children are not the only ones who need to sit.  And if there is limited seating that small child will fit on a parent's lap better than an adult will.  If the parent wants the kid to sit in his/her own seat - then the parent can stand before a stranger should.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: twiggy on May 15, 2012, 07:46:50 PM
Childfree: don't lie about crying babies to get a refund on your movie ticket. I actually spent 85% of the movie in the lobby because I ninja sprinted her out every time she clapped and squealed for joy at seeing Thor come on screen. The only reason I was in the hallway when you walked out of the theater is because the last time I dashed out, I left my souvenir cup behind and I was waiting for everyone to clear out so I could get it. When I see you poke your buddy and say "score, there was a kid in there" it makes me want to tell management you're lying to them when I see you at the counter demanding a refund, instead of the movie pass they usually give. (I was at the counter getting gift cards, so I heard the whole stupid thing. I wanted so badly to say something, but I knew I would just look like a crazy, defensive parent.)

Parents: If you take your child to a movie, do NOT let them disturb others around you. Yeah, it stinks that you might miss the movie, but that's the chance you take. I don't care if it's just a matinee, or just the cheap theater, I still paid my admission price to see the movie. I also don't care that it's an animated children's movie. I don't want to hear your little princess singing to the princess on the screen. And if the big, mean 8-10 year old sitting in front of your family turns around and politely asks your child to stop kicking his seat and to please be quiet so he can hear the movie, don't hiss back that "she's only 2." If your 2 year old can't sit still and be quiet, wait for the movie to come out on DVD and watch it at home. Also, don't get pissy with me when I don't take your side and vilify the polite boy
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 15, 2012, 09:17:57 PM
Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.


I roll my eyes at that one too, when I hear other parents doing that.  Hell, I have 3 kids and I think my childfree best friend is busier than I am during the day, if only cause during the school year my elder two are in school and I'm not having to chase after the baby (yet). Not to mention, because she's also single and lives alone, when she's not working 40 hours a week, she's having to fine time to do the house and yardwork.  I think it's ridiculous that some parents assume that the childfree have so much more free time than we do.

To the parents of the kid I heard shrieking from halfway across the Walmart: As a fellow parent, I can empathize about toddlers screaming for something they want and are told they're not getting, and while ignoring it may be your solution at home, please don't subject the rest of the shoppers to that ear piercing shriek.  While I know it's not pleasant, one of you (I know there were two parents cause I did end up seeing the family of 4 in the toy section and both of them were ignoring the girl) could take her out to the car until she finishes shrieking.  Yes, it's not fun to hear your kid shrieking in a small, enclosed space but hell, parenting isn't always fun. 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 16, 2012, 12:24:02 PM
Parents: If you take your child to a movie, do NOT let them disturb others around you. Yeah, it stinks that you might miss the movie, but that's the chance you take. I don't care if it's just a matinee, or just the cheap theater, I still paid my admission price to see the movie. I also don't care that it's an animated children's movie. I don't want to hear your little princess singing to the princess on the screen. And if the big, mean 8-10 year old sitting in front of your family turns around and politely asks your child to stop kicking his seat and to please be quiet so he can hear the movie, don't hiss back that "she's only 2." If your 2 year old can't sit still and be quiet, wait for the movie to come out on DVD and watch it at home. Also, don't get pissy with me when I don't take your side and vilify the polite boy

Also do not let your child chat through live dance or theatre performances. No it's  not less annoying because she''s asking about the event....other folks want to hear what's going on on stage and it's rude to them and the performers to allow this.  Allowing them to scream that ear splitting scream that toddlers and young kids can do - is dangerous to the performers.  I saw a kid fall from an acrobatic "circle" when another child let out with one recently. 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: hobish on May 16, 2012, 01:33:42 PM
Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Midnight Kitty on May 16, 2012, 02:34:02 PM
Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.
Thank you, hobish.  The post I started wasn't as diplomatic, so I deleted it when I read your post.  You phrased it nicely.  I was a bit taken aback when nuit93 said, "You are not better than me because you reproduced."  Then s/he (?) balanced it with, "You are not better than someone who has reproduced."
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Auntie Mame on May 16, 2012, 06:29:07 PM


Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

I'm not.  But the people who rage at me seem to be.  I just walk away.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 16, 2012, 08:47:42 PM
I wonder, since when has it been the public's business what a man or woman choose to do about reproduction? My childfree bf has told me about people asking her why she didn't have kids, while giving her reasons why she should have.  As if she can change anything about that now, being in her mid 50's. 

As if it's any of their business anyway. 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 16, 2012, 09:29:51 PM
I wonder, since when has it been the public's business what a man or woman choose to do about reproduction? My childfree bf has told me about people asking her why she didn't have kids, while giving her reasons why she should have.  As if she can change anything about that now, being in her mid 50's. 

As if it's any of their business anyway.

  I have had that done to me too. I've had people tell me I was being rude when I declined to discuss it.

Parents: You get to set rules for your minor children, not other adults. What I wear, what and when I eat, what I read or believe are not for you to limit. Nor do you get to make promises for me about anything, whether that's visiting, using my property or memberships to any place. If I want to share I will, if not, just because I have a DVD player does not mean Johnny or Susie get to "share" it or that you get a say in what I watch...same goes for any electronics, crafts or anything else.

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: nuit93 on May 17, 2012, 02:01:08 AM
Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.
Thank you, hobish.  The post I started wasn't as diplomatic, so I deleted it when I read your post.  You phrased it nicely.  I was a bit taken aback when nuit93 said, "You are not better than me because you reproduced."  Then s/he (?) balanced it with, "You are not better than someone who has reproduced."

I'm female  :)

I used the phrasing "you are not better than ME because you reproduced" because I myself do not and will not have kids and have taken permanent measures to that effect.  So it was a tad less wordy than "you are not better than someone who has not reproduced because you reproduced".  In other words, what you do or don't do with your reproductive bits doesn't make you better than someone else who did something different.


Though in the end...Wil Wheaton's law pretty much covers it.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on May 17, 2012, 03:01:43 AM
Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.
Thank you, hobish.  The post I started wasn't as diplomatic, so I deleted it when I read your post.  You phrased it nicely.  I was a bit taken aback when nuit93 said, "You are not better than me because you reproduced."  Then s/he (?) balanced it with, "You are not better than someone who has reproduced."

I'm female  :)

I used the phrasing "you are not better than ME because you reproduced" because I myself do not and will not have kids and have taken permanent measures to that effect.  So it was a tad less wordy than "you are not better than someone who has not reproduced because you reproduced".  In other words, what you do or don't do with your reproductive bits doesn't make you better than someone else who did something different.


Though in the end...Wil Wheaton's law pretty much covers it.

Clarification:  Don't be a [male reproductive organ, or detective].
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on May 17, 2012, 04:45:16 AM
Childfree: don't assume we with kids can.not make a function. We can get babysitter...

parents: don't take your child to an adult event without checking with the planner first!
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: veryfluffy on May 17, 2012, 07:41:59 AM
Parents: Do not tell a childfree person that they will change their mind. If you are that prescient, use your psychic energy to pick your lottery numbers. Maybe you used to think you didn't want children and you changed your mind, or maybe it was simply that your BC failed and you are now very happy to be a parent. But no, we are not "slaves to our hormones". We have brains, just like you do.

Childfree: Just because you can't fathom why someone would want to be a parent or endure a pregnancy, the correct response to finding out that someone is expecting isn't, "Oh no! What are you going to do?!" or "Are you going to keep it?" Usually, congratulations are in order. Even if you have trouble with congratulations, or suspect that the situation is complicated, try "How exciting for you!" or "Wow, how are you feeling?"
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on May 17, 2012, 10:46:19 AM
Parents: Do not tell a childfree person that they will change their mind. If you are that prescient, use your psychic energy to pick your lottery numbers. Maybe you used to think you didn't want children and you changed your mind, or maybe it was simply that your BC failed and you are now very happy to be a parent. But no, we are not "slaves to our hormones". We have brains, just like you do.

Childfree: Just because you can't fathom why someone would want to be a parent or endure a pregnancy, the correct response to finding out that someone is expecting isn't, "Oh no! What are you going to do?!" or "Are you going to keep it?" Usually, congratulations are in order. Even if you have trouble with congratulations, or suspect that the situation is complicated, try "How exciting for you!" or "Wow, how are you feeling?"

Childfree: Adding on to the above - Nor is is acceptable in  any known universe to tell a parent "You'd better give that kid up before you get attached"  because  you think the parent is too young or you disapprove of single parents. 

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Bexx27 on May 17, 2012, 10:58:50 AM
Childfree: don't assume we with kids can.not make a function. We can get babysitter...

parents: don't take your child to an adult event without checking with the planner first! unless the child is invited.

Fixed that for you.  ;)

Childfree: If a parent turns down an invitation because of commitments to his/her child(ren), please accept that answer graciously. Do not sigh in exasperation and say, "you know, you don't have to do everything you do with your daughter." (Courtesy of one of DH's friends.  ::))
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on May 17, 2012, 11:38:45 AM
Thanks Bexx I typed that on phone and pressed send before editing! That was of course what I meant.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Garden Goblin on May 18, 2012, 12:17:05 PM
Parents -

If your child breaks something, especially something he was not invited to handle in the first place, the correct response is 'how can I make this right', not 'he's only two!'.

Childfree -

It is somewhat less wise to leave a nifty shiny cool thing unattended in the presence of children than in the presence of adults.  Kids are slightly less adept at considering the consequences of their actions than adults.

Parents -

Yes, that item is indeed expensive to replace, that doesn't change that if your child broke it, it is your responsibility to see the owner made whole

Childfree -

Seriously, you left a brand new iPod running a Spongebob game unattended on a table in the kid's section of the library?  Consider the fact that you are getting it replaced with a used one with a couple scratches on the case as a stupidity tax and let it go.

Me -

No, it's wrong to grab two people by the scruff of the neck and thump their heads together until they stop acting like morons.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on May 18, 2012, 03:15:31 PM
Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?

Parents: don't criticise other parents on their parenting skills. Being.smug is not clever. Sure, your child is well behaved now, but I am sure he has meltdown and bad days like any other child. Come now, you don't want others.judging you and finding you lacking, do you?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: veryfluffy on May 18, 2012, 04:48:17 PM
Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?


That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: AngelicGamer on May 18, 2012, 06:57:31 PM
Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?


That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine.  :)
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: whatsanenigma on May 19, 2012, 10:14:35 AM
If someone is childfree by choice due to medical issues, don't bring up all the people you know or have heard about who also have those medical issues that had children and everything is fine, especially not if those people happen to be celebrities.  Everyone's medical issues are different, even when it's the same illness, and maybe those other people don't have the same combination of multiple issues.  Also, depending on the particular disease or disorder involved, everything might not actually be "just fine", but the problem just hasn't appeared yet.

Also, please understand that when someone makes this choice, to be childfree due to medical issues, it is not a negative judgement against anyone else with said medical issues who does choose to have children.  There is no need to get defensive, even if it's you personally who has some version of the medical issues who decided to have children.  The issue is so personal and for each individual to decide what the best judgement call is for their particular case.

And though I've never personally met anyone who was childfree by choice due to medical issues who did somehow consider themselves morally superior to those with the same issues who have had children, there are probably some people like that out there, so I'll go ahead and say that if you do feel this way,  don't tell anybody that, and try to get over it, because it's just really rude, IMHO.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: whatsanenigma on May 19, 2012, 10:20:23 AM
Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?


That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine.  :)

If I am out with someone like my sister, and we encounter a child having some kind of meltdown, I will usually say to my companion, "Sounds like somebody is having a rough day, huh?" in a tone that is sympathetic to the adult with the child.  And then we sometimes get onto the topic of times it was rough on us in public when my nieces (or other relevant children) were small.

I never say anything directly to the parent of the child, though if we pass closely, I will give a sympathetic smile.  I hope if the parent overhears what I am saying to my sister, though, that it is at least somewhat comforting.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: veryfluffy on May 19, 2012, 04:47:49 PM
Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?


That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine.  :)

Sorry, I disagree with this. I can think of any number of parents and granparents, those who are not childfree but perhaps don't yet have their own children, or even teenagers or younger children who are just as likely to display irritation at a screaming kid being ignored by an oblivious adult. Or by singling out the childfree, are you suggesting that this behaviour is acceptable for anyone else except the childfree?

This point is not really relevant to childfree etiquette, it is about child-in-public etiquette.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: nuit93 on May 19, 2012, 05:47:01 PM
Childfree: when you are shopping and see a kid having a tantrums, don't tut loudly and remark on the bad behaviour of children these days. Just how is that helping anyone?


That's not just the childfree, though, is it? It's other parents, it's grandparents, it's anyone -- tut-tutting is certainly not limited to the childfree, and your comment is a bit unfair in singling them out.

It's not limited to the childfree but it is most likely to happen.  I know that I have (along with rolling my eyes) when I was a fresh noob CF.  I have since grown up - along with realizing that I don't want to be that much of a jerk to others around me - that I don't anymore.  I see where Hollanda is coming from, as a former tut tutter.  Now, all I do is quickly get out of where the child is having a meltdown so I don't have a mental one that goes into a migraine.  :)

If I am out with someone like my sister, and we encounter a child having some kind of meltdown, I will usually say to my companion, "Sounds like somebody is having a rough day, huh?" in a tone that is sympathetic to the adult with the child.  And then we sometimes get onto the topic of times it was rough on us in public when my nieces (or other relevant children) were small.

I never say anything directly to the parent of the child, though if we pass closely, I will give a sympathetic smile.  I hope if the parent overhears what I am saying to my sister, though, that it is at least somewhat comforting.

I would never say it outright, but is it wrong that I often find myself impressed at the lung capacity of small children and their ability to create window-vibrating screams?   >:D
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: kherbert05 on May 19, 2012, 06:59:11 PM
When my oldest niece was a little girl, my Sis and BIL had a rule. When they had her (she lived with her Mom), they did not leave her with babysitters during the day, if they were not working. In the evening when she was asleep, they would get one. They saw her little enough and her Mom was forever trying to get their visitation reduced. She would use them leaving the child with babysitters or even the child having overnights with her grandmother as proof they weren't spending time with the child.  Then try to use that as justification for reducing their visitation.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on May 20, 2012, 02:18:07 AM
I mentioned further along in my postabout parents who judge other parents...did you not read that bit?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: starbuck on May 28, 2012, 08:52:58 AM
Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Sorry, late to return to this thread. Goodness, it certainly wasn't my intention to cause drama or bad feelings. I'm childfree BTW, so my statement came from the perspective of my own experience in that I see a lot of my childfree friends are so agitated these days that the slightest thing sets them off where children are concerned. Perhaps I should have expressed that in more detail so it was clear.

Added: I'm not a frequent poster here but I've been coming for a short while and I must say in my time here I've been surprised at how quick off the mark and "assume the worst, jump down someone's throat" people are here for a board on manners and how to conduct oneself in civil manner. Instead of chiding me or, for another poster, firing off an (unposted) undiplomatic post, how about saying, "I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?" or "We may disagree, don't you think parents are looking for a fight as well?" I've made one small post in a 6 page thread (until this one) yet several people felt the need to wag an e-finger at me and express anger at my supposed attempt to divide or enrage the discussion rather than providing any kind of benefit of the doubt which, IMO, would have been the civil thing to do.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on May 28, 2012, 09:37:43 AM
Great thread!

Parents: please don't act like you are the only busy people in the world. I know plenty of crazed parents. I know plenty who have large amounts of time to pursue their own interests. I know plenty of childfree people who are buried, I know plenty who have mounds of free time. It totally depends on the individuals and their life circumstances and it's insulting and silly to make comments like "well when I was like you and had plenty of time to go out partying and the sleep all day..." I don't know one childfree person whose life rolls like that. Most of us work and have other obligations.

Parents: please please please stop letting your children run wild in public. Yes children can be loud and rambunctious but it's your job to teach them when it's OK to be loud and rambunctious and to teach them how to exercise self-control. Public space does not translate into "children's needs wants and desires come first, always, so if they want to run and shout, they can." So stop with the "but that's what kids do!" attitude and take things in hand.

Childfree: stop calling parents and kids ugly names like "moos" and "duhs." It's low-rent and tacky and makes you and the rest of us look silly and childish. There are plenty of great parents out there, BTW.

Childfree: Don't move in next to a playground and school yard and the moan about the noise. Yes, I agree, kids today seem to be louder and screechier than we were allowed to be but honestly? Schoolyards and playgrounds have never in history been quiet places. These are the places kids are supposed to be blowing off steam. Let them. 

Childfree:stop looking for a fight.

You can just as easily add, "Parents: stop looking for a fight." That is exactly the kind of divisive statement, made without qualifier or theory to back it up that causes fights, as if the groups are so entirely different and only one has cornered the market on beligerence. This has been a really pleasant thread and i am sure we would all like to see it stay that way.

Sorry, late to return to this thread. Goodness, it certainly wasn't my intention to cause drama or bad feelings. I'm childfree BTW, so my statement came from the perspective of my own experience in that I see a lot of my childfree friends are so agitated these days that the slightest thing sets them off where children are concerned. Perhaps I should have expressed that in more detail so it was clear.

Added: I'm not a frequent poster here but I've been coming for a short while and I must say in my time here I've been surprised at how quick off the mark and "assume the worst, jump down someone's throat" people are here for a board on manners and how to conduct oneself in civil manner. Instead of chiding me or, for another poster, firing off an (unposted) undiplomatic post, how about saying, "I'm not sure I understand what you mean here?" or "We may disagree, don't you think parents are looking for a fight as well?" I've made one small post in a 6 page thread (until this one) yet several people felt the need to wag an e-finger at me and express anger at my supposed attempt to divide or enrage the discussion rather than providing any kind of benefit of the doubt which, IMO, would have been the civil thing to do.

POD.
 
I feel that sometimes it happens, Starbuck, when people don't read a post properly or misunderstand it.  I am quite happy to either reiterate what I mean or explain in further depth if this is required and I think there is any point. There are times, though, when responding to a chiding post creates more drama, so I just walk away from it and don't return to the thread, even when the subject hugely interests me.  Please don't feel victimised or anything, I doubt anyone is intending to "get at you", even though it seems that way. xxx
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: princessdolly on May 28, 2012, 09:48:39 AM
I only roll my eyes and make comments about one kind of parent. The ones who say things like "please stop being naughty for mummy" or "please stop doing that" while there child runs around the shop or bus screaming like a banshee.

Are they seriously *begging* their child to behave? There shouldn't be a choice. Just walk over to them instead of standing there and drag them over to the cart or seat.

I don't want to hear the kid screaming *and* the parent wailing back at them. Then when they see me roll my eyes they glare at me. How dare I expect them to discipline their child.

Fotrtunately these people are rare (although not rare enough) and most parents know when to corral their children.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Hollanda on May 28, 2012, 09:54:50 AM
I only roll my eyes and make comments about one kind of parent. The ones who say things like "please stop being naughty for mummy" or "please stop doing that" while there child runs around the shop or bus screaming like a banshee.

Are they seriously *begging* their child to behave? There shouldn't be a choice. Just walk over to them instead of standing there and drag them over to the cart or seat.

I don't want to hear the kid screaming *and* the parent wailing back at them. Then when they see me roll my eyes they glare at me. How dare I expect them to discipline their child.

Fotrtunately these people are rare (although not rare enough) and most parents know when to corral their children.

 
Usually in this case the parent is not confident enough to assert themselves effectively to their child. A child needs boundaries to feel secure. Therefore strict rules about acceptable behaviour are necessary!
 
It makes me mad!
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: CakeEater on May 29, 2012, 04:16:31 AM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on May 29, 2012, 04:26:18 AM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

If they're on the fence, and actively soliciting opinions, then you're in the clear.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: TheVapors on May 29, 2012, 04:32:49 AM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

My two cents about that type of a situation:

During a friendly discussion about having kids, I might suggest, "That's true. Plenty of kids are all those things at least some of the time.  But, there's the expression "You love them when they're your own" and that definitely holds true for me."

If you're having a discussion that both sides are happily participating in, then it's not so much whether or not it's right for the childfree couple to have or not have kids, and not a judgement on those who are deciding... it's gauging the difference between the two situations, and exploring the good and not-so-good to make an informed decision.

It's like asking (on a much more life-altering scale), "Hmm... which college should I go to?" You can get the opinions of people who have gone to two different universities and then decide. In those cases, I don't think throwing out, "Yes, kids are a lot of work, but I wouldn't change a thing" or "Here's my experience" answers are out of the question.

If during a discussion they want to know the truth, tell them the truth as you feel comfortable telling it. (In a non-"you'll regret not having kids" way.)
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: veryfluffy on June 06, 2012, 04:57:23 PM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

Can I just point out a basic point of childfree etiquette here: someone  "trying to decide" whether they want children is not, by definition, childfree. They are currently childless, they are "fence-sitters", they may decide to be childfree. Someone who is childfree does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on June 06, 2012, 04:59:41 PM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

Very well said!

Can I just point out a basic point of childfree etiquette here: someone  "trying to decide" whether they want children is not, by definition, childfree. They are currently childless, they are "fence-sitters", they may decide to be childfree. Someone who is childfree does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Midnight Kitty on June 10, 2012, 08:23:53 AM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

Can I just point out a basic point of childfree etiquette here: someone  "trying to decide" whether they want children is not, by definition, childfree. They are currently childless, they are "fence-sitters", they may decide to be childfree. Someone who is childfree does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children.
I was not aware that the definition of "childfree" was someone "who does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children."  I don't have any children and [checking my biological clock] it is too late to have them now.  That was not my choice.  We wanted children.  I did not "actively avoid" having children.  We are content with our "childfree" status, but I disagree with your definition.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on June 10, 2012, 09:33:40 AM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

Can I just point out a basic point of childfree etiquette here: someone  "trying to decide" whether they want children is not, by definition, childfree. They are currently childless, they are "fence-sitters", they may decide to be childfree. Someone who is childfree does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children.
I was not aware that the definition of "childfree" was someone "who does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children."  I don't have any children and [checking my biological clock] it is too late to have them now.  That was not my choice.  We wanted children.  I did not "actively avoid" having children.  We are content with our "childfree" status, but I disagree with your definition.

I actually agree with it.  It's not so much having children, but desiring a lack of same... eating salad all week doesn't make me a vegetarian.  :)
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: veryfluffy on June 10, 2012, 10:50:05 AM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

Can I just point out a basic point of childfree etiquette here: someone  "trying to decide" whether they want children is not, by definition, childfree. They are currently childless, they are "fence-sitters", they may decide to be childfree. Someone who is childfree does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children.
I was not aware that the definition of "childfree" was someone "who does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children."  I don't have any children and [checking my biological clock] it is too late to have them now.  That was not my choice.  We wanted children.  I did not "actively avoid" having children.  We are content with our "childfree" status, but I disagree with your definition.

If you would have had children had it been possible, and wanted to have them, you would generally be seen as childless. If you regard not having children as an unfortunate outcome, you are not childfree, even if you accepted it.

Being childfree means that you wouldn't have chosen to have them, even if all the ducks had lined up. I don't want to argue about definitions, but that is simply the way the word is used by those who have embraced the childfree life.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: ydpubs on June 10, 2012, 12:00:08 PM
Question related to some earlier posts:

What about a childfree person who is trying to decide whether or not they would like to have children, we are actively discussing this decision, having been brought up by them. They bring up the issue of, "But kids are loud/annoying/messy and I don't know if I would be able to put up with it."

Can I then bring out, "But you'll love them when they're your own"? Because I think that it's quite true in this situation.

Can I just point out a basic point of childfree etiquette here: someone  "trying to decide" whether they want children is not, by definition, childfree. They are currently childless, they are "fence-sitters", they may decide to be childfree. Someone who is childfree does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children.
I was not aware that the definition of "childfree" was someone "who does not have, does not want, and is actively avoiding having children."  I don't have any children and [checking my biological clock] it is too late to have them now.  That was not my choice.  We wanted children.  I did not "actively avoid" having children.  We are content with our "childfree" status, but I disagree with your definition.

If you would have had children had it been possible, and wanted to have them, you would generally be seen as childless. If you regard not having children as an unfortunate outcome, you are not childfree, even if you accepted it.

Being childfree means that you wouldn't have chosen to have them, even if all the ducks had lined up. I don't want to argue about definitions, but that is simply the way the word is used by those who have embraced the childfree life.

Agreed. Childfree by choice are people who never wanted, never tried and don't see being unable to have them as the undesirable result.

I have seen a few groups that called themselves childfree (when DH and I were trying to find like minded people) only to find they were not in fact childfree, but couples with grown children who had moved out. They are empty nesters, not childfree. And there were groups for the childless, ones who wanted kids but due to circumstances could not have kids, also not the same as those who actively chose not to have kids. I felt bad for them because you'd hear about their fertility issues and things like that, but again I had nothing in common with them in that regard.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Midnight Kitty on June 12, 2012, 05:06:19 PM
I guess I don't fit the standard definitions.  As I said, we are content with our "childfree" status even though that wasn't our original plan.  I would not have much in common with "childless" couples who tried to have children and were not successful.

Please note I did not argue the definition; I simply said I was unaware of that definition.  I don't hang out on parenting forums, nor do I know any groups of people who have "embraced the childfree life," so I did not know there was a specific definition for both terms, neither of which describe me. :-\
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: purplemuse on June 24, 2012, 07:10:30 AM
Parents: Sometimes it doesn't matter how mature your child is for his/her age; there are just some events that are only for adults. Even if there's no sex/violence/alcohol involved, it can still be an adult event, and your child will just have to wait until he/she grows up. This is not "just like racism."

Childfree: Most other places are going to be fair game for kids to be around. Childfree only means that you don't have kids; not that you never have to deal with them.

Everyone: If the event is not adults or children only, make sure everyone gets a turn. Parents-- children do not get a monopoly on fun (and don't think some of us don't notice when you're enjoying the activity along with your child-- the same activity you declared the childfree adult "too old for"). Childfree-- the kids will not necessarily have a chance to do the activity later (and unless you're on death's door, that logic could apply to you as well).

Parents: Just because some of us don't have kids doesn't mean we don't have anything important in our lives. Ask/let us talk about work, hobbies, family events, etc*.

Childfree: Having kids is a big deal for the people who do-- there's this whole new person who wasn't there before. Ask/let them talk about the kid*.

Childfree: Kids are individuals and all of them are different. Saying you don't like any of them is a little much.

Parents: Kids are individuals and all of them are different. People are allowed to prefer one over another**.

*Within reason-- no one should be monopolizing a conversation

**They are not allowed to be rude or cruel or openly play favorites, but they are allowed to get along with one child better than another; just like people are allowed to prefer the company of certain adults to others.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on June 24, 2012, 10:13:25 AM
old for")
Parents: Kids are individuals and all of them are different. People are allowed to prefer one over another**.


**They are not allowed to be rude or cruel or openly play favorites, but they are allowed to get along with one child better than another; just like people are allowed to prefer the company of certain adults to others.


Pursuant to this: It is not being openly cruel to not take a child out who will.not.behave. for the adult in question. If one child listens, behaves well and both adult and child have a good time together that is great....if your other child tells that adult "I don't have to listen to you, talks through the event and tells others to shut up, or any variant of misbehavior the adult is not wrong to say "I will not take misbehaving child out" ever. 
   
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on June 24, 2012, 12:38:59 PM
old for")
Parents: Kids are individuals and all of them are different. People are allowed to prefer one over another**.


**They are not allowed to be rude or cruel or openly play favorites, but they are allowed to get along with one child better than another; just like people are allowed to prefer the company of certain adults to others.


Pursuant to this: It is not being openly cruel to not take a child out who will.not.behave. for the adult in question. If one child listens, behaves well and both adult and child have a good time together that is great....if your other child tells that adult "I don't have to listen to you, talks through the event and tells others to shut up, or any variant of misbehavior the adult is not wrong to say "I will not take misbehaving child out" ever. 
 

POD.  I am a parent and there are kids who were put on mine and DH's "Will never go anywhere with us again, ever" blacklist because they would not behave themselves and would try to get the boys to misbehave too.  Take her on an errand? She'd assume you were going to buy her something and if you didn't she'd whine, pout and do all she could to misbehave, attempt bribery by saying "I'll behave if you buy me what I want!!"  Might have worked on her mom and dad, but didn't work on us.

The IL's invited same girl to brunch once because the boys had been playing with her before they showed up and we told her it was time to go home cause the IL's were treating us and I didn't want them to pay for her too.  She pouted and MIL said she could come.  The girl proceeded to behave like a toddler (she was 8) by crawling under the table, blowing bubbles in her drink, and had to be told several times to lower her voice. 
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: s on June 25, 2012, 04:52:13 PM
Childfree: don't assume we with kids can.not make a function. We can get babysitter...

parents: don't take your child to an adult event without checking with the planner first! unless the child is invited.

Fixed that for you.  ;)

Childfree: If a parent turns down an invitation because of commitments to his/her child(ren), please accept that answer graciously. Do not sigh in exasperation and say, "you know, you don't have to do everything you do with your daughter." (Courtesy of one of DH's friends.  ::))

My friend used to do this bait and switch type thing on me.  If we wanted to meet for coffee or lunch etc she would then say after we finalized our plans "You know I have to bring DS right?"  So it would make me look like a complete jerk to then say no.  Since her DS was mostly well behaved I would say ok.  But it irritated me just a little each time.  And sometimes he was not well behaved.  He never had full on tantrums, but he would be whiny and sulky which was distracting for me.  I couldn't focus on our conversation.

ETA:


Parents: If you take your child to a movie, do NOT let them disturb others around you. Yeah, it stinks that you might miss the movie, but that's the chance you take. I don't care if it's just a matinee, or just the cheap theater, I still paid my admission price to see the movie. I also don't care that it's an animated children's movie. I don't want to hear your little princess singing to the princess on the screen. And if the big, mean 8-10 year old sitting in front of your family turns around and politely asks your child to stop kicking his seat and to please be quiet so he can hear the movie, don't hiss back that "she's only 2." If your 2 year old can't sit still and be quiet, wait for the movie to come out on DVD and watch it at home. Also, don't get pissy with me when I don't take your side and vilify the polite boy

I think this can be applied to restaurants as well.  If your child cannot behave then they need to be removed so that they stop creating an unpleasant situation for the other patrons.  DH and I went out to eat this past weekend in the late afternoon.  So still lunch-ish time but a bit later but it wasn't dinner time yet.  So the restaurant was not busy at all and it was nice and peaceful.  Cue a family being sat next to us with a toddler that was already screaming.   >:(

Also, was the restaurant rude to seat them near us when they had a toddler that was already screaming?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Emmy on June 29, 2012, 06:01:07 AM
I think this can be applied to restaurants as well.  If your child cannot behave then they need to be removed so that they stop creating an unpleasant situation for the other patrons.  DH and I went out to eat this past weekend in the late afternoon.  So still lunch-ish time but a bit later but it wasn't dinner time yet.  So the restaurant was not busy at all and it was nice and peaceful.  Cue a family being sat next to us with a toddler that was already screaming.   >:(

Also, was the restaurant rude to seat them near us when they had a toddler that was already screaming?

I was in a situation like that too.  At a long airport layover, some friends and I decided to leave the airport and go have lunch at a tourist spot.  We were seated and there was a line to be seated.  About six adults and two small children got in line.  The baby in the group was quiet, but the toddler was screaming.  The toddler screamed the whole time while in line and screamed while seated near us (of course).  The adults ignored him the whole time.  Eventually a manager came and asked the group to remove the screaming child.  I felt the restaurant should not have seated the family in the first place because the child had been screaming in line the whole time without showing any signs of calming down.  I imagine it was after many complaints they finally asked the family to take the kid out.

I also wonder if it is rude to take a child out to places that are obviously not for children, even if the child is well behaved.  DH and I got a sitter and went out to a very nice steakhouse in the city.  This place doesn't have a children's menu or high chairs so it is obviously not a kid friendly place.  We noticed a very young toddler.  The toddler was not a distraction in any way in terms of making noise, but was her presence appropriate in an adult place?  I couldn't imagine taking a child to a place like that.

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on June 29, 2012, 08:17:12 AM
Childfree: don't assume we with kids can.not make a function. We can get babysitter...

parents: don't take your child to an adult event without checking with the planner first! unless the child is invited.

Fixed that for you.  ;)

Childfree: If a parent turns down an invitation because of commitments to his/her child(ren), please accept that answer graciously. Do not sigh in exasperation and say, "you know, you don't have to do everything you do with your daughter." (Courtesy of one of DH's friends.  ::))

My friend used to do this bait and switch type thing on me.  If we wanted to meet for coffee or lunch etc she would then say after we finalized our plans "You know I have to bring DS right?"  So it would make me look like a complete jerk to then say no.  Since her DS was mostly well behaved I would say ok.  But it irritated me just a little each time.  And sometimes he was not well behaved.  He never had full on tantrums, but he would be whiny and sulky which was distracting for me.  I couldn't focus on our conversation.


Okay, I don't know if it's just that I'm spoiled because DH doesn't mind actually being a father and taking care of our 2, now 3 boys on his own, but I've always gotten a little annoyed when I want to have some girl talk with a fellow mom and even though her husband, and the father of their kids is home, she either can't or won't leave them with their father for just an hour or two out of the day for some girl time.   

In some cases it was that the husband would whine about having to give up precious gaming time to watch the kids he contributed DNA to, while others it was that the mother was just so convinced that the children would get sold to a passing circus if left alone with their father for more than a minute even if he could have easily handled them, just not exactly the way she wanted it done. 

DH doesn't do things the way I do when I leave them with him but so long as they're fed, clean and have all body parts where they should be when I return home, I'm good. 

There was one day when my oldest was real little and I had to work on a Mandatory Company Fun Day (Marine corps) and DH took him to this himself and a friend and wife of a fellow company member commented to me later that she was so surprised that a man could dress an infant in clean, matching clothes all the way down to the socks.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Jones on June 29, 2012, 01:04:41 PM
**removed by Jones because the story had more to do with parental etiquette than childfree**
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: hobish on July 02, 2012, 11:56:39 AM

Can the anecdotes about raising your kids and how awesome (or not) daddy is be moved to anywhere but this thread? I love ya, but the irony of baby stories in the Childfree Etiquette thread is giving me an aneurism.

(http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6637.gif) (http://www.desismileys.com/)
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: ydpubs on July 02, 2012, 12:03:05 PM

Can the anecdotes about raising your kids and how awesome (or not) daddy is be moved to anywhere but this thread? I love ya, but the irony of baby stories in the Childfree Etiquette thread is giving me an aneurism.

(http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6637.gif) (http://www.desismileys.com/)

Seconded.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Ciarrai on July 03, 2012, 12:18:42 PM

Can the anecdotes about raising your kids and how awesome (or not) daddy is be moved to anywhere but this thread? I love ya, but the irony of baby stories in the Childfree Etiquette thread is giving me an aneurism.

(http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6637.gif) (http://www.desismileys.com/)

Much appreciated!
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on July 09, 2012, 09:03:53 PM
Met a woman at the park today who was with her nephew and she was only a couple years older than myself and volunteered that she was 37 and her mom was pushing her to have more,reminding her she's not getting any younger, but she's content to just play with her nephews.  Made me think of my bf and the childfree ehellions and told her I knew a few people who chose to be childfree and don't regret it at all. 

She laughed and smiled so I take it she was glad to hear it but I can't help but wondering, what is really the point of saying "You're not getting any younger" to someone who doesn't want kids?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: diesel_darlin on July 09, 2012, 09:14:48 PM
Met a woman at the park today who was with her nephew and she was only a couple years older than myself and volunteered that she was 37 and her mom was pushing her to have more,reminding her she's not getting any younger, but she's content to just play with her nephews.  Made me think of my bf and the childfree ehellions and told her I knew a few people who chose to be childfree and don't regret it at all. 

She laughed and smiled so I take it she was glad to hear it but I can't help but wondering, what is really the point of saying "You're not getting any younger" to someone who doesn't want kids?

I would like to know that myself. DH and I got married right at 2 years ago. (it will be 2 years this month.) We met while we were co workers in a large factory. Basically everyone there knew us, and were happy that we got married. The factory shut down, so everyone dispersed to either school or other jobs. We run into old co workers from time to time and the first question they ask is "Where is the baby"? I say what baby? "Oh yall aint having any babies". Ummm Nope. "well you better hurry up cuz yall aint gettin any younger!"

While I dont mind them asking, I do mind the fact that the majority will not take no for an answer. They keep poking and prodding asking when we want kids, why we dont want kids, etc. Blank stares and bean dip are not effective because they bring it up again.

We dont want kids right now because I am unemployed, going to school on a program for displaced workers. Hubby has a job, but it doesnt pay much. We have trouble taking care of ourselves most days, and I think it would be patently unfair to bring a child into our financial situation. On top of that, I am going to school to be a diesel mechanic. I think it would be quite hard to turn wrenches around a pregnant belly.  ;D
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: FoxPaws on July 09, 2012, 09:38:32 PM
"You're not getting any younger"

"I know! I'm counting the minutes until I don't need to use birth control any more!"
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Midnight Kitty on July 10, 2012, 02:22:55 AM
"You're not getting any younger"

"I know! I'm counting the minutes until I don't need to use birth control any more!"
After years of endometriosis, a couple surgeries, scheduling my life first around the best times to get pregnant and then the times not to plan vacation because I wasn't pregnant, early menopause came as a relief to me.  I told my reproductive organs, "If you're not going to do something useful, could you please just chill out!"

I told my coworker that DH adopted two 4-month old kittens (yesterday!) to fill the hole left by Midnight's passing last December.  She's met him & we're pretty good friends.  She cut her eyes at me and said, "He never would have been happy with just one kid."

We found out Saturday that we will probably buy the horse DH has been shareboarding.  We already have Midnight's sister, Bootsie, age 18-1/2 and Misty, our little red mare, age 7.  Add Novalee, a Palamino mare age 17+, and the 2 kittens, Buddy Guy and his sister, Tsukiko (Moon Child), and we now have five fuzzy faced "babies."  Maybe we didn't so much "adjust to being childless" as we filled the hole with animals.  I certainly don't feel "childless." :-*
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on July 11, 2012, 08:11:21 PM
Midnight Kitty....with three dogs and three cats, I certainly don't feel childless, either!
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Midnight Kitty on July 12, 2012, 10:56:02 AM
The kittens went back yesterday, so we're down to three girls. :'(
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: hobish on July 12, 2012, 11:21:22 AM
"You're not getting any younger"

"I know! I'm counting the minutes until I don't need to use birth control any more!"
After years of endometriosis, a couple surgeries, scheduling my life first around the best times to get pregnant and then the times not to plan vacation because I wasn't pregnant, early menopause came as a relief to me.  I told my reproductive organs, "If you're not going to do something useful, could you please just chill out!"

I told my coworker that DH adopted two 4-month old kittens (yesterday!) to fill the hole left by Midnight's passing last December.  She's met him & we're pretty good friends.  She cut her eyes at me and said, "He never would have been happy with just one kid."

We found out Saturday that we will probably buy the horse DH has been shareboarding.  We already have Midnight's sister, Bootsie, age 18-1/2 and Misty, our little red mare, age 7.  Add Novalee, a Palamino mare age 17+, and the 2 kittens, Buddy Guy and his sister, Tsukiko (Moon Child), and we now have five fuzzy faced "babies."  Maybe we didn't so much "adjust to being childless" as we filled the hole with animals.  I certainly don't feel "childless." :-*

You remind me of my friend John. He and his wife have never wanted kids. He jokes, ďEvery time we start to think about it we just go get another animal instead Ö we have 2 dogs, 3 cats, 12 goats, 6 sheep, 2 ferrets, and a horse.Ē

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Midnight Kitty on July 12, 2012, 11:41:06 AM
You remind me of my friend John. He and his wife have never wanted kids. He jokes, ďEvery time we start to think about it we just go get another animal instead Ö we have 2 dogs, 3 cats, 12 goats, 6 sheep, 2 ferrets, and a horse.Ē
Have they been married around (adds quickly 2+3+12+6+2+1=) 26 years?

When I was married to DH#2, I acquired one new animal per year, on average.  We were together for 7 years: 3 cats, 1 dog, 2 horses.  I think it was a seasonal hormonal thing.  Must have baby ...
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on July 12, 2012, 11:52:19 AM
My bf, when I first met her, had 5 cats, I think it was.  Okay, yeah, it was five (had to list the names in my head) and now she's down to 2 and one pup.  She jokes that she only has a maternal instinct where animals are involved.  I always get annoyed when people snort at people treating their pets as part of the family. 

Having both furry and human children, I really do consider our two kitties to be part of the family. I'd no sooner turn one of them out than I would one of my human kids. Actually, considering our kitties are still young-uns at 4, chances are that our oldest two will leave the nest before the kitties will leave us.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: MissRose on July 23, 2012, 07:46:21 AM
Parents, please don't assume that because I don't have children of my own that I "don't have a family" and therefore should be perfectly happy to work all the holidays.  I have a beloved husband and come from quite a large family.  Sometimes they like to see me on holidays.  Even if I didn't have anyone else in my life, I am just as entitled to my share of holidays off as are you.

For some of my fellow childfree...by all ever considered holy by any of humankind, please stop whining.  Legitimate complaints are one thing, but honestly, sniveling about how a child crossed your path at Chuckie Cheese or that a pregnant woman dared appear in public before you when you walked by the local mall's maternity shop starts veering into the realm of idiocy.

And that's not as much hyperbole as you folks might think.

My best friend has complained about the bolded in the past, always being expected to cover shifts for those with family because she's single and doesn't have kids.  She still has a family in her sister and niece, as well as her sister's in laws.

I thoroughly do not like the fact in the past that my mother told me to work all holidays so that those who had their own kids could spend time with them.  I did work some so I did not have to deal with her, but at the same time I do have family even if I have no children of my own. 

I work in a call center, and there is a reasonable expectation that you may have to work holidays if the coverage is needed.  It is told to you when interviewing the potential for any shift, any time, any day so no reason why people need to complain.  To those with children: please do not pull the children card constantly to not work a holiday or 2 so that the singletons (or married) without children can either relax with family (or alone if they like).  The burdens of holidays and weekends shift be more equal in jobs that need to have sufficient workers to do the work especially if a place is 24x7.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on July 23, 2012, 08:18:22 AM
I haven't had many jobs that required working over holidays, but when I did, I didn't pull the "family" card, cause I knew I wasn't the only one with family.  That and having an aunt who was a nurse and would work Thanksgiving and Christmas despite having two kids taught me that it just comes with the territory on some jobs.

And with one job, if you worked Thanksgiving, you didn't have to work Christmas, so it was a fair trade-off.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on August 04, 2012, 09:33:34 AM
Piratelvr1121, then in my experience that makes you an exception. In every call center I have worked in ( and I've worked in a few) the holidays were give with  rabid priority to parents, same with weekends. I have friends who have never in 7 years had a weekend or holiday off - simply because they don't have kids.

 For the parents: They are YOUR kids, not your friend's and babysitting issues are YOURS to deal with" telling your CF friends "we need a sitter before we can do XYZ" is not fair.  YOU need a sitter before YOU can do XYZ not the friend. It is not their job to arrange for sitters and implying that this is their issue is rude. We understand that sometimes there are last minute glitches but when you sign up for a course in January and the babysitting situation changes on June 1st, while the class is in August, the time to tell the CF friend is not when they are 45 minutes into an hour long drive to pick you up.  And telling them as I said above " We need a sitter before WE can do XYZ." is not right. nor is bringing a 10 year and a 7 year on what was to be an adult only class - and telling the CF friend to "Suck it up, pumpkin, I have kids" is unfathomably rude and inconsiderate.
  And no your friends with or without kids are not responsible for your kids babysitting OR for making child friendly plans. Etiquette says that must reciprocate - so instead of letting CF Sally do all the inviting - make kid friendly plans and invite CF Sally, but it's not her job to entertain your kids. She's friends with you, not them. She didn't have them, you did. All this "We" stuff is just you being rude to her and to your kid


CF: if your friend is reasonable and does not foist responsibility for her kids on you, forgiving the very occasional last minute glitch will foster the relationship.  Things happen to everyone, let a few things slide as long as it's not a pattern.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on August 04, 2012, 01:05:46 PM
Well I figure that just because one doesn't have kids doesn't mean they don't have family they might like to see over the holidays. :)  Or would just like some time off, period.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Outdoor Girl on August 04, 2012, 01:17:53 PM
I'm not married and don't have children.  In the past, I've had people try to play the kids card on me.  To which I responded, 'I have to travel 3 hours to see my family; if I work this holiday, I spend it completely alone.'

Opened their eyes a little bit and from that point forward, holidays were more fairly split.  One person still insisted on taking all holidays off and since they had seniority, they got to do that.  But at least I only had to do my share (well, shared amongst everyone but one) rather than all of them from that point forward.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on August 04, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
Years ago, I worked at A&W, which is (locally) well-known for the Mothers' day and Fathers' Day specials they run.  On Mothers' Day, they were expecting it to be madly busy at our store, so it was required for every single staff member on the roster to be there.  All of us.  One supervisor, K, railed against this the entire time, saying that of all of us, she should be the only one allowed the day off, as she was the only one who was a mother.

Okay, you know what?  Granted.  I didn't disagree with her too much.  It was her attitude that the holiday was meaningless to the rest of us.  Never mind that we might have wanted to spend it with OUR mothers, right?

The whole thing was ridiculous anyway; I don't think we had more than a dozen customers all day.  IT was the deadest Sunday I'd ever worked.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: hobish on August 06, 2012, 08:35:27 AM

Iíve never had a problem with a friend telling me they need a sitter before they can do XYZ. Itís not a slight, itís just a fact. I donít take it as being B listed, or as if they expect me to find them a sitter. Sometimes people just canít RSVP to things right away because they have to find a sitter first. I donít see the rudeness.

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: snowdragon on August 06, 2012, 11:43:09 AM

Iíve never had a problem with a friend telling me they need a sitter before they can do XYZ. Itís not a slight, itís just a fact. I donít take it as being B listed, or as if they expect me to find them a sitter. Sometimes people just canít RSVP to things right away because they have to find a sitter first. I donít see the rudeness.

  The rudeness I see is telling me "WE" need a sitter... SHE needs the sitter, not me. She is making me responsible for her need for a sitter. And then insinuating that since "WE" don't have a sitter, "WE" can't do something planned since January.  If she had said "Snowdragon, I don't have a sitter, I can't do it" Absolutely no problem  or "We don't have a sitter, so I can't go"  - again absolutely no problem but she told me "WE don't have a sitter, so WE can't go." There is a difference that that makes it extremely rude.
 
 Under no circumstances should a CF  Christine be responsible for sitters or be expected to not do something because Penelope Parent doesn't have a sitter...there is no "WE" in finding sitters, it's the responsibility of the parent.


And if they can't find one - telling someone before the date they expecting to do something  is considered polite, especially when you have  6 weeks warning that you don't have a sitter for that date.

And when you know   6 weeks that you don't have a sitter - letting them drive 3/4 of an hour out of their way to  pick you up - that you can't come is VERY rude.  Telling them before they leave their own home is polite and perfectly fine costing them extra time and gas is rude.

Even if you can't go because you have no sitter - you don't get to declare "WE can't do XYZ" you can say "*I* can't do it" but telling another, unrelated adult that they can not do it is rude.


The reason I found out that she did not have a sitter as far back as June was because her son picked up the phone and asked why I was coming and then told me  "Zach said on my birthday ( June 1) he could not sit today,so I don't think mom is coming but I'll get her".( Zach is their normal sitter, and the only other person that she trusts is on vacation in Maine this month...she's known that they were planning to be away for the class date since February.) So she's not had a sitter since June and still led me on that she was going until just before I was due at her house.

As far as I am concerned all of the above are rude in the extreme.

I have a good many parent friends, none of them would expect me, or anyone but their spouse to find a sitter for their kids. If nothing else they want folks they know and trust.  Nor would any one else expect that I not do something I planned to do because of their sitter issues.  Nor would anyone else expect that I would be perfectly fine taking a 7 and 10 year old to a day long class that was advertised as "adult only" .

We signed up and paid for this class in January, she had RSVP'd yes in January. In June her sitter told her could not do it that day, the time to pull out was then or in any of the weeks leading up to the class day. NOT as I was driving to her house.   

Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: violinp on August 06, 2012, 01:58:17 PM
I think the parent may have meant we in the sense of her partner and herself as a parenting unit, therefore what she meant "Partner and I can't find a sitter, so you and I can't visit."

It's massively rude to not tell a friend you can't be there before the other friend is inconvenienced, however.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: hobish on August 07, 2012, 03:06:04 PM
I think the parent may have meant we in the sense of her partner and herself as a parenting unit, therefore what she meant "Partner and I can't find a sitter, so you and I can't visit."

It's massively rude to not tell a friend you can't be there before the other friend is inconvenienced, however.

That's what i was getting at. If a friend told me "we" can't find a sitter i would never think that "I" was part of that "we".  I'm not saying it doesn't happen; maybe some people mean it that way. I know my friends don't; it never would have occurred to me they might. 


Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: lollylegs on August 24, 2012, 10:34:24 PM
You might think of your pets as children and that's perfectly legitimate, but it also means that you should uphold the same standards that parents are held to, such as don't dominate conversations with talk of your pets, don't express horrified shock if someone says they're not a pet person (yes, I'm petfree, don't judge me!), don't insist upon your non-dog-liking friend patting your dog, and for the love of all that is holy, do not pepper casual conversation with explicit details of their sicknesses and injuries.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on August 25, 2012, 06:14:49 AM
You might think of your pets as children and that's perfectly legitimate, but it also means that you should uphold the same standards that parents are held to, such as don't dominate conversations with talk of your pets, don't express horrified shock if someone says they're not a pet person (yes, I'm petfree, don't judge me!), don't insist upon your non-dog-liking friend patting your dog, and for the love of all that is holy, do not pepper casual conversation with explicit details of their sicknesses and injuries.

And please don't insist on taking them everywhere, especially to places they don't belong and you don't have permission to bring them.  Our local park has a section of it where pets are not allowed, but I've seen some people bringing their small dogs, as if the dog is too small to count as a dog, therefore they can bring them.   It's not the whole park that's off limits, pretty much just the part that includes the two playgrounds.  Considering it's a good sized park, it's not like there's not plenty of other room to walk a dog.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: veryfluffy on August 25, 2012, 08:16:47 AM
I think we are straying into the etiquette of "pets", rather than childfree. None of the behaviour cited in the last two posts is specific to the childfree, is it?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on August 25, 2012, 08:26:08 AM
True, though in my reply (which I admit it was not made clear), I was kinda comparing how some parents think their child is welcome anywhere to how some folks believe their pets belong everywhere.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Shoo on August 25, 2012, 09:41:27 AM
True, though in my reply (which I admit it was not made clear), I was kinda comparing how some parents think their child is welcome anywhere to how some folks believe their pets belong everywhere.

So is this thread about those with children, or those without?  The Subject Line says one thing, but then I keep seeing all these posts about how PARENTS should behave.  Isn't this about how those without children should behave, and how others should behave toward them?
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: wendelenn on August 25, 2012, 11:37:40 AM
True, though in my reply (which I admit it was not made clear), I was kinda comparing how some parents think their child is welcome anywhere to how some folks believe their pets belong everywhere.

So is this thread about those with children, or those without?  The Subject Line says one thing, but then I keep seeing all these posts about how PARENTS should behave.  Isn't this about how those without children should behave, and how others should behave toward them?

It's also about how parents should behave toward those who are not.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Ciarrai on September 03, 2012, 09:38:45 PM
Isn't this about how those without children should behave, and how others should behave toward them?

That was the original plan. It seems to have mutated a bit.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Shoo on September 07, 2012, 09:06:26 PM
Isn't this about how those without children should behave, and how others should behave toward them?

That was the original plan. It seems to have mutated a bit.

Yes, it seems to have mutated into how parents should behave.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 07, 2012, 09:13:31 PM
I took it as how each group could be respectful of the other. Ie Childfree not demanding to know why anyone would want to have a kid, while parents shouldn't demand of the Childfree why they chose not to have kids.
Title: Re: The Etiquette of the Childfree
Post by: Garden Goblin on October 08, 2012, 02:39:21 PM
Regarding both pets and children -

They live here.  I am the final arbiter of what constitutes a 'reasonable accommodation' towards your feelings regarding them being here.  You are always welcome to stay in a motel and/or socialize with us outside the home.