Etiquette Hell

Forum Administration => Forum Announcements => Topic started by: wellisawstar on May 25, 2012, 06:19:02 PM

Title: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: wellisawstar on May 25, 2012, 06:19:02 PM
I must admit that I have a selfish reason for loving the wedding etiquette threads, as I'm rapidly heading toward my wedding date. However, I'm pretty bummed that the threads at the new wedding site are pretty much stagnant. Thankfully, I don't have a lot of wedding issues that I need to post about, or else I'd shake it up over there.

Before I was engaged, I would casually read the wedding threads. I wonder whether a lot of the readers of the wedding threads were in the same boat and aren't following over because it's another site altogether.

I'm hoping the wedding threads return to EHell so I can one-stop shop for all of my etiquette needs or that the wedding site picks up. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Betelnut on May 25, 2012, 06:21:27 PM
I don't go to the new site.  I miss having them here.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: jedikaiti on May 25, 2012, 06:36:18 PM
I love the wedding threads, but I have no particular interest in adding another site to the list of sites I try to remember to visit regularly. Also, since I'm not in the middle of any particular wedding-related activity, I'm that much less inclined to seek it out.

For me, it's like a TV show that I enjoy when I stumble upon it, but not enough to seek it out on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: angilamae on May 25, 2012, 06:37:27 PM
I don't remember about the other site to be honest.  I do like wedding stuff (even though I am not engaged or helping anyone with one at the moment) but I haven't been seeking them out on other forums.  I did read them all the time here though.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: jimithing on May 25, 2012, 06:41:42 PM
I honestly forget about the new site. Something sparked my memory today, and I popped over, but when I saw that no new threads had been started for days, I clicked out. It is a bummer.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: still in va on May 25, 2012, 09:13:43 PM
that's how it is for me.  i check out Hell's Belle's once or twice a week.  i used to check the wedding threads on this forum a couple of times a day. 

added to that, i have no idea what my password is anymore.  i simply have GOT to find the orange notebook with the passwords, i know i didn't lose it in the move.  but since i don't know my password, i can't log in and post on those threads.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Iris on May 25, 2012, 09:21:31 PM
I'm the same. I have no direct interest in weddings at the moment so I tend not to go over there, but I did enjoy incidentally checking out stories while they were here.  :'(

Presumably there was a good reason for separating the boards and for eHellDame's sake I hope it ends well, but it will ultimately be a different community to the one here I think, with a little overlap.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: rose red on May 25, 2012, 09:43:49 PM
I'm the same.  I clicked on the thread because it was right there, but now I keep forgetting.  A shame because I do find the fun topics there really entertaining and amusing.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: kareng57 on May 25, 2012, 10:31:13 PM
I too agree.  I'm not actively involved in any weddings right now, but I have two sons in their mid 20s and I think that within the next 5 - 10 years, there could be wedding plans.  So I've always been interested to see what is considered "routine" these days.

I'm guessing that the site was split because of too much traffic, but I too kind of miss it - and even when I've checked, I agree that the traffic is negligible.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: AngelicGamer on May 25, 2012, 11:55:22 PM
I possibly missed that thread, so I'm going to go looking.  I didn't realize there was a big reason why, just that the Dame wanted another site.  Sometimes I miss things.  :D

ETA: Scratch that, I found it.  Makes sense for the move, but sad that it is going to be slow over there.  I'm like the others on this thread with not wanting to add on another site to my large online blog/forum reading.  It's spilling over to my Kindle Fire sometimes.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: MariaE on May 26, 2012, 12:57:18 AM
I'm with the others. I check a couple of times a week, but it's not a priority the way this site is. I wish the two hadn't been separated.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: yachtchick on May 26, 2012, 02:04:09 PM
Here is a POD to the above.  I liked to read the threads but am not going to seek them out.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: sparksals on May 26, 2012, 03:18:45 PM
I have to echo everyone else.   I enjoyed reading the threads as they came up here, but don't think to go over there at all.  I get email notifications for the migration of threads in which I was involved, but I don't go over there because I know they are old threads. 
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: camlan on May 26, 2012, 05:37:36 PM
I keep forgetting the new site exists.

No plans to get married, but sometimes it is interesting to read and maybe comment on the wedding threads. But I simply forget all about them now that they are not popping up when I search for new threads.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Tilt Fairy on May 26, 2012, 05:49:15 PM
I used to love reading the wedding threads! But like the others, I completely forget about the other site so never go on it. I miss it all being in one place :(. It's a shame because the wedding threads are fun
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Beyond The Veil on May 26, 2012, 05:58:31 PM
I actually do not mind that the site is split into two, however, I an unimpressed with how it was handled. There are methods, modifications, et cetera and ways you can run a site where two databases/forums can trick merged user accounts into believing they are on the very same site and there is no hassle. I think this would have been the best approach.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Ceallach on May 27, 2012, 06:00:24 AM
Interesting seeing this thread.  I had thought of mentioning this but wasn't sure if it was appropriate or not.   Right before the sites were split, I was thinking to myself how neat it is that eHell covers *everything*.  I know we get members who come for wedding advice, but then stay as part of the community.  Back when I was getting married I was very active on wedding specific forums elsewhere, but eventually moved on because after a few years they were no longer relevant.  I really regret losing the sense of community I had on those forums, and I love that eHell covers all life stages and all situations. 

Re the new site, I browse eHell by clicking on either "Show Unread Posts Since Last Visit"   or  "Show New Replies to Your Posts".    I never just scroll down to a particular forum.   Therefore, it took me awhile to notice the wedding forums had gone (because the only indicator was if you scroll down to go to that forum, there was no general announcement), and even since then I continually forget that they have.    :(     I do understand from a marketing perspective why this decision may have been made, but from a community perspective it does sadden me.   And unfortunately, I don't know if I'll ever be organised enough to remember to visit the other site on a regular basis.  Which is a shame, as adding advice to some of the wedding topics was very enjoyable, and I'm sure we helped a lot of people.   
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Ehelldame on May 27, 2012, 09:34:23 AM

The decision to move the wedding folders to a new domain was predicated upon several points:


1) Since 2010 the number of brides posting about their weddings had dramatically decreased.   This is clearly evidenced by the number of weddings being planning and discussed in the MY Wedding Day folder.  The board was not being accessed by brides looking for information and help unless they happened to find it via the main EHell site. 

2) There has been a separate wedding planning and etiquette blog for several years under the main domain (ehell.com/weddinghellsbells) and traffic analysis indicated it was not being found easily by brides looking for help precisely because it under the main  URL.   It needed to have its own domain so that search engine spiders could find it and put it higher on Google searches.  If we were going to create a new domain for the wedding blog, the logical next step was to create its own forum specifically targeted to wedding information.   Rather than start from scratch, the entire database was copied to a new domain.

3)  There were 2 folder and over 8,000 threads between them (and 204K posts).....far too generalized and information not as easily found.   With moving it there are now 28~ folders and a team of volunteer "movers" are busy at work moving those thousands of threads into more specific folders.   

4)  WeddingHellsBells forum is just two clicks away.  See at the top right of this forum is a link taking you right to the main blog and the forum link is at the top in the navigation bar.   A link to go back to Ehell is at the top of HellsBells' forum as well.   A banner type link will eventually be added under the "Wedding" board title so navigation to HellBells can be faster.   

5)  Ehell forum has had its share of drama and resulting bans over the years.   Some of those banned have been brides who got caught up in drama on other areas of the forum.   The wedding folders were typically the least moderated of all the boards so by moving those folders to a separate forum this allows bride members to continue accessing and participating in a forum to help them with their wedding.   

Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: stargazer on May 27, 2012, 11:33:20 AM
I also forget to click over to the other site since I don't have any wedding issues coming up.

Am I wrong or does it seem that threads which previously were viewable only to members of this site can now be seen by anyone,  guest or member on the new one?   When we posted in the threads here, it was with the understanding that guests could not see them since the Wedding folders were member only.   While I have nothing that I really care too much about out there, other people may be more concerned.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Horace on May 27, 2012, 06:14:04 PM
I'm rather unhappy that posts which were previously on eHell in members-only folders/forums have now been moved to another website which does not have these privacy controls.  It's not like people were posting their bank details in the threads but a lot of them have pictures and other identifying information included which posters may not have added if they knew the threads would be open for all to view. 

I would also like to know the legal point of view about taking posts from one forum/site and moving them to another one without the original posters permission.  It would have been kind of the moderators here to give people the choice to delete their threads/posts if they did not want them to be moved and made public.  Indeed, part of the forum rules states: "Content submitted to the forum is not deemed to be granted material for the blog or any other publication. What happens on the forum, stays on the forum" and I believe that the new forum falls under "any other publication".  Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

I would appreciate some clarification and I don't think I am the only one with valid concerns about this new forum.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: #borecore on May 27, 2012, 09:43:09 PM
I liked being able to click on wedding threads in the new posts even if I didn't click on the subforum itself (I never use the home page for navigation); I have no plans to use the Hell's Bells site, more or less for the reasons already enumerated by others. That's unfortunate.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Samantha on May 27, 2012, 10:32:23 PM
I'm planning my wedding, and I started my thread here, on Etiquette Hell. I didn't start it on Hell's Bells.

I started it here because of the feeling of community and support I have felt over the last few years. I don't have that feeling with the new website. There are so many people that visit EHell, and provide ideas and suggestions that we may not otherwise think of because we are so wedding-focused during planning... As a bride, we are highly unlikely to get the same sort of unbiased feedback from others that are NOT consumed by wedding-brain, due to the site split.

I hadn't updated my thread because things were slow going... And now, I don't know that I will.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Oh Joy on May 28, 2012, 07:36:09 AM
This is a free site I enjoy using, so I don't complain.  But I will say I'd really rather not navigate two separate sites (it's only a few taps on the keyboard I'm already using, but what bugs us bugs us).  I have been making it a point to go to the other site and post something since the traffic has been so low.  I do hope postings pick up over there so I'm drawn to go check it out for updates.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Sophia on May 28, 2012, 08:28:32 AM
I am glad my wedding has already happened.  One of the things I really found helpful was that I could get advice from Already Married People.  Before I came over here I was on the BB for a giant bridal magazine.   I always thought it was the blind leading the blind.  The only already married people that hung on there were those getting married again, or the wedding obsessed.  I wasn't really happy with the advice because my head is screwed on well enough.  I eventually found the EHell stories.  Then, I ended up here.  For my computer nonproductive time, I limit myself to one website, here, and one game, Hidden Chronicles.  I don't think I ever started a "My Wedding" thread. I might have. 

I agree with Oh Joy, though.  This is a free website, so I won't complain.  But I think the brides are missing out on the good advice that I got.   I wonder if it would be possible to have both going?
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Bethalize on May 28, 2012, 09:20:38 AM
I started it here because of the feeling of community and support I have felt over the last few years

Good point. It's an online community it's the people one values, not the software or the branding. I visit the Etiquette Hell to interact with the community. Taking the wedding threads out of the community suggests the should be two different communities.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Sterling on May 29, 2012, 07:19:18 PM
I actually have not updated my thread and need to look if I can delete it at all.  I never intended it to be completely open to whoever might stumble across it.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: squeakers on May 30, 2012, 10:06:40 AM
I actually have not updated my thread and need to look if I can delete it at all.  I never intended it to be completely open to whoever might stumble across it.

It always was open to anyone who wanted to read it " As a guest, you are able to view the main story folders but you are restricted from a number of folders, mainly several in the the Administrative category and most of the Off Topic category folders.   To view and read those folders, you will need to register.   You are also restricted from posting/replying to any posts in any folder until you register." (From the welcome thread viewable only before you log in.)
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Lynn2000 on May 30, 2012, 10:22:43 AM
I actually have not updated my thread and need to look if I can delete it at all.  I never intended it to be completely open to whoever might stumble across it.

It always was open to anyone who wanted to read it " As a guest, you are able to view the main story folders but you are restricted from a number of folders, mainly several in the the Administrative category and most of the Off Topic category folders.   To view and read those folders, you will need to register.   You are also restricted from posting/replying to any posts in any folder until you register." (From the welcome thread viewable only before you log in.)

I was under the impression people were talking about their personal wedding threads, where they were supposed to put the wedding date in the title and people posted pictures of the flowers and favors they were thinking about and basically brainstormed without asking etiquette questions. IIRC, these were only accessible to registered users, and didn't even appear if you were just an un-logged-in guest browsing the forum. I browsed for a long time before joining, and once I joined, there was a whole new world of folders opened up to me as a member! :) So I can see how it would be disconcerting if someone made a very personal wedding thread in a place where only members could see it, and now it was out in the open for anyone, registered or not. (I haven't looked that closely at the new wedding site so I don't know if that's the case or not.)
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: MacadamiaNut on May 30, 2012, 10:38:32 AM
As a person not specifically interested in weddings at the moment, the change doesn't really affect me terribly but I did used to participate in those threads when they were here.  I also agree that when those threads were here, the interested parties would get more universal and unbiased feedback.  On a separate site meant just for brides or people involved in weddings, it seems it would be like the brainwashed leading the brainwashed.  (And I do mean the brainwashing from the wedding industry in general.) That element of getting advice from people at all stages of life and various points of view of etiquette would be missing.

Oh well, c'est la vie.  Like I said, it doesn't really affect me so I barely notice the threads are gone.  I don't ever think to go visit the new site.  If there was a thread (or some sort of mechanism) here that I could subscribe to that would tell me there are new threads/replies over there, along with maybe their links, I might check out some of those posts, but as it stands, it's just not top of mind.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Betelnut on May 30, 2012, 10:49:42 AM
I just clicked onto the "Wedding Hell's Bells" from this forum and I needed to click to the Forum link and then relog in.  That means I won't be visiting that site too often even though wedding threads are frequently quite interesting.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: PurpleFrog on May 30, 2012, 11:46:54 AM
I feel the same as Samantha and Sterling, I started a wedding thread but will probably not update it on the new site and would prefer it removed. I also wonder what Ehell members who don't use hell bells are supposed to do should they have a wedding etiquette question do they have to go across or can the subject still be discussed here on occasion?
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: EMuir on May 30, 2012, 11:58:04 AM
I won't be visiting the new site as weddings aren't specifically of interest to me.  The community is an important part to me too, and it's like having a coffee shop in my city where I know everyone and one in a small town a few miles away where I might or might not meet people I know... sure it's easy to go to either, but in reality I'm going to stay in the one I know.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Ehelldame on June 04, 2012, 09:49:02 AM
I'm rather unhappy that posts which were previously on eHell in members-only folders/forums have now been moved to another website which does not have these privacy controls.  It's not like people were posting their bank details in the threads but a lot of them have pictures and other identifying information included which posters may not have added if they knew the threads would be open for all to view. 

That is a valid point. We had to go back to a 2010 back up to verify that the permissions on that My Wedding Day board were restricted to members only.   I had changed a few permissions to allow the"movers" access to all folders and boards and did not recall changing that board.   It has had a restricted access so that was changed last week to members only.  However, the main folder in that board is visible to all guests and members.

Quote
I would also like to know the legal point of view about taking posts from one forum/site and moving them to another one without the original posters permission.

There has been a considerable financial investment over the past decade in legal counsel regarding copyrights, etc.  Nothing this big is ever done without legal counsel.  If you cannot trust the legal and ethical standards of a web site you should not be submitting content of any kind.   

The grant of rights was crafted at least 8 years ago and it clearly refers to content submitted to "ETIQUETTE HELL", not etiquettehell.com.   "Etiquette Hell" is my company business name although it has recently changed to Etiquette Hell LLC.  Content submitted to "Etiquette Hell" has always carried an implicit license to copy it and use it elsewhere within the context of the business and that includes the sister site, www.weddinghellsbells.com.   


Quote
Indeed, part of the forum rules states: "Content submitted to the forum is not deemed to be granted material for the blog or any other publication. What happens on the forum, stays on the forum" and I believe that the new forum falls under "any other publication".  Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

Those two sentences were added a few years ago to assure people that the stories they said on the forum would not be used as material in the blog.   However, I have been advised to remove it for two reasons.  One, it contradicts the previous sentences in the grant of rights which take legal priority anyway. Two, after the drama on the forum last October, people engaging in tortious behavior that seeks to disrupt operation of the web sites or server in any way have defaulted on their right to privacy and my attorney would prefer I use the blog or web page to expose them.   I have not yet availed myself of that option but I prefer to keep that option open. 

I have recently updated the Forum Rules to reflect these and other changes.
Title: Re: Traffic to the new wedding site
Post by: Ehelldame on June 04, 2012, 09:53:18 AM

Summary of all the posts in this thread:

1.  Most of you like and want community.
2.  Most of you do not want to be bothered investing in that community to make it better.
3. Not one person in this thread bothered to privately email or PM me about their concerns or observations prior to this thread.

Duly noted.