Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Dating => Topic started by: squashedfrog on September 12, 2012, 07:08:49 AM

Title: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: squashedfrog on September 12, 2012, 07:08:49 AM
I have had a question from a friend who has just returned to dating, about an incident in the cinema which she finds a little weird, so I suggested running it past the forum to see what you good e-hellions think.   She thinks its odd, but isn’t sure if a) its because she has been out of game so long, or b) the cinema setting dark, quiet etc made it difficult to gauge. Sorry its long, I’m trying to add as much detail as poss.  The main question is, would you find his behaviour odd or would it run a red flag for you?

 Friend meets guy on an online dating site, corresponding via email text and a few calls since.  Last week, last minute they decided to catch the Batman movie that evening as a first date.  (Now, she admits a dark cinema, no talking, not ideal first date material, but movie was due to end at cinema, and it was a spur of the moment decision for the both of them).

She says they had both talked about having eaten dinner separately beforehand, met up for a quick coffee beforehand (going dutch), things seem good, and then went to the cinema to catch the film. 

So this is where it seems to go strange...Friend decides to buy snacks to take in with them, a drink and some popcorn. Guy says he doesn’t want anything.  Vendor says you can large for extra 50p, so she gets large in case guy would like to share some during what is a long film.  When the guy sees the popcorn, he visibly frowns and gives her what she feels is an odd look.  She asks him if he’s OK, he then acts normal and breezy again and she shrugs it off.

Before entering the screen she asks him to hold the drink and popcorn while she nips to the loo.  When she returns, she says he was shovelling the popcorn into his mouth by the handful (again no biggie, its a large so there’s plenty to share).  She says thanks and offers to carry her snacks, and he gives her the drink back but holds on to the popcorn.

They get in the screen, film begins and he is holding the popcorn on his lap, but away from friend.  She reaches over and helps herself to one or two bits, he does the same.   Then, she thinks out of politeness, she will take a handful and pop it on her lap (on her jacket) so she is not leaning across him all the way through the film.  Again, although its dark, she says he gives her a frown as if a she’s taken a huge handful.

He “lets” her take another handful, but then puts the popcorn down, by his feet away from her.  And there it stays all the way through the film.  The odd thing is he doesn’t eat anymore, but seems annoyed when she nudges him a few times throughout the film to get a bit of popcorn.  At one point she says she thinks he held the bottom of it tight so she couldn’t get her hand all the way in and only got a small helping, then back by his feet away from her it went.

The third time she indicates she would like some of her own popcorn again, she thinks he audibly tutts at her.  Embarrassed, this is the last time she reaches for her popcorn.

When the film is over, they stand and go to leave and she notices there’s a good half of the popcorn still in the bag, as she bends to pick it up, she hears him in an exasperated tone,  say “just LEAVE it!”. When she turns back to him, again he’s all smiles. 

Its late, they say their goodbyes and hugs and go off separate ways.  She says he has been completely friendly, funny and normal on the subsequent texts and emails.   

What do you E-hellions think?  Odd behaviour, a red flag or is she overreacting?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: EmmaJ. on September 12, 2012, 07:24:12 AM
Weird.  Weird, weird, weird.  I think he might be one of those "controlling" men who watch every mouthful you eat. 

I would give him one more chance and see how he reacts to your friend at a meal.  One frown, one "tut tut" and you'll know.  If he shows any disapproval about what she eats or how much she eats, she needs to drop him like a hot potato.  And tell him why.  He has no right to govern what she eats.

My ex would take my dinner plate away from me when he decided I had enough to eat.  Why I put up with that for one second I'll never understand.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: MorgnsGrl on September 12, 2012, 07:26:04 AM
Red flag. Policing her food intake 100% unacceptable. I wouldn't give him a second chance.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: RingTailedLemur on September 12, 2012, 07:26:37 AM
That's really, really weird.

It sounds like he didn't want her to have any popcorn at all - so he not only kept it physically away from her but tried to dispose of it by eating it.

If I were your friend, I'd ask him what was up with that.

Snapping at her and controlling her behaviour are huge red flags for me - the first date is when you should be on your extraspecialultraabsolutebest behaviour to impress someone.  Either he wasn't too bothered about ipressing her or not, or more frighteningly, that was his best behaviour and he will get a whole lot worse.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Redsoil on September 12, 2012, 07:27:51 AM
It seems peculiar to me!  I'd actually ask him what the deal was, but then I tend to be pretty upfront about things like that.  Perhaps he feels it's "Unladylike" to want any quantity of popcorn?  Perhaps he frowns on junkfood?  I'd have found his "possession" of MY popcorn unusual, especially when he was rationing it.

I think I'd ask casually in an email how he enjoyed the movie, and then mention the popcorn - something like "I did wonder why you seemed to have a bit of an issue with the popcorn.  Does the rustling disturb you when someone takes a handful?"
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 07:37:04 AM
My guess is major food issues--not just for her but also for himself. He was visibly upset when she bought it, then when she left for a moment he started wolfing it down, then gets annoyed every time she eats but also doesn't eat any more himself. His PAness about it would keep me from going on any more dates with him, but I do suspect he has issues, and not just directed at her.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Shopaholic on September 12, 2012, 08:02:08 AM
That is just so weird.
Why didn't she just take the bag from him?
If he had other redeeming qualities I might give him another chance...but so far...tutting at her? Um, no.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Kaypeep on September 12, 2012, 08:36:43 AM
I think your friend should ask herself why she didn't say "Please pass me the popcorn bag."  I mean, why did she let him keep control of it and keep reaching over?  For future dates or just general assertiveness in life, she should not let others take over her things like that.

As for this date, I'm torn.  My boyfriend is not a control freak or hostile and controlling, but he does sometimes question why I want to eat something as soon as I wake up, or after we've had a meal.  His metabolism is different than mine, and he doesn't seem to get that and instead acts like I'm a bit off kilter to eat the way I do.  (meanwhile he'll eat a bag of pistachios and half a gallon of milk right before bed, whereas I can't eat anything 4 hours before bedtime.  ::) )  So part of me thinks he might have had an issue with getting a large popcorn after saying you had a meal.  However, his controlling it and tut tutting is out of line and a red flag to me and goes beyond questioning different eating habits.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Sophia on September 12, 2012, 08:43:40 AM
Red flag!  Run!  Run!  Run!

For some reason, he thought that she shouldn't eat popcorm, and he did what he could to make sure she didn't.  I don't know why she didn't just snag the popcorm container herself when he put it on the floor.

The other red flag is the false smiles.  It is obvious even to me that the frowning tuttibg person is the real guy and the jovial smiling one is his dating face.  Tell her to believe the unscripted responses and ignore the scripted ones. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: WillyNilly on September 12, 2012, 08:51:45 AM
It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

But this guy or any other, your friend will do better in dating if she just speaks up.  lets put it this way right now she's questioning whether she should see the guy again, right?  So what would she have had to loose by being direct?  Whats the worst case scenario?  Either she'd see him again or she'd know she wasn't going to, but the outcome would still be one of the exact same two outcomes she's now facing.   She should have straight up said "please hand me the bag of popcorn" or even "I'd like my popcorn back now."

She also IMO should have called him out on the "just leave it".  She could do it all smiles "did you just tell me to leave it?  Why?" just like he was smiling at her, but in the long run dating will be easier and more productive if she treats first dates as an opportunity for men to impress her instead of an opportunity for her to impress men.  Yes she should put her best face forward, but she shouldn't worry if a man likes her, she should only worry if she likes the man.  He can worry about whether he likes her, that's his end, she should only be concerned with what she's looking for in a mate.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: MorgnsGrl on September 12, 2012, 09:04:07 AM
It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

Eating disorders ARE about control. (Not just about control, but control is a major factor.)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: WillyNilly on September 12, 2012, 09:07:33 AM
It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

Eating disorders ARE about control. (Not just about control, but control is a major factor.)

Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 09:17:08 AM
It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

Eating disorders ARE about control. (Not just about control, but control is a major factor.)

Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

I agree with most of this post, but the bolded sounds kind of like you're criticizing the friend too for wanting to eat popcorn at the movies.  :-\ Maybe just an internet-no-tone thing.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: rashea on September 12, 2012, 09:25:17 AM
It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

Eating disorders ARE about control. (Not just about control, but control is a major factor.)

Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

But if it was that, then shoveling it in was a bit odd, and the smart thing to do would be to hand it back to her.

Honestly, if he has that big a food issue, he should have said something. Not stolen someone else's food.

If everything else was perfect, I might ask him about it. But more likely I would tell him that his taking my food away was odd and left me feeling really unattracted to him.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 09:29:59 AM
It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

Eating disorders ARE about control. (Not just about control, but control is a major factor.)

Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

But if it was that, then shoveling it in was a bit odd, and the smart thing to do would be to hand it back to her.

I think the shoveling was part of it too--I think he was starting to binge on it, and mistakenly projected the same onto her, and was trying to save them both from the eeevil popcorn.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think?
Post by: squashedfrog on September 12, 2012, 09:31:23 AM
Hi OP here.

Thanks for responses so far,  If I'm honest I'm kinda glad it wasn't just me that thought it odd.

a bit more info in response to questions. 

Why didn't she just take the bag?   When she whispered for the bag he held onto it, tightly.  I think asking for the bag and being more assertive, to be honest I know my friend and she doesn't puts up with any rubbish.  I think if it had been at a park, or at a restaurant she would have probably said something, asked him what he was doing or made light of it or just left.  As she has pointed out to me they were sat in middle of a cinema in silence for three hours, not the place you push for conversation, sat parallel,  surrounded by other cinema goers. 

She told me she felt weird pushing the subject that then might be seen as an argument with someone you don't know all too well about something that seems as trivial as popcorn (remember this was a first date). When he held onto it when she came out of the bathroom, she said she put it down to him 'being a gentleman' by carrying the big bag. When they sat down, and she asked for the bag, he held onto it tightly, I think she would have had to wrestle it  from him in the middle of a crowded cinema which just sounds like drama for the other cinema goers.   

Because of this she is doubting herself as she doesn't feel she has a proper grasp on what happened because while it was happening the cinema isn't the type of place you could turn around and say "oi! what your game then?" out loud. 

She thinks its now gone past the bringing it up phase with him, as it was late when the film finished, he was all smiles again, she had to get home, and is not sure after a few days of it bugging her how she would then bring up something with him that she thinks might be seen as trivial. Like she said, he'd be immediately fine after it like nothing had happened so again she's unsure of whether he noticed he was doing it.  Hence coming to me and me coming to Ehell.

My thoughts.

In answer to Kaypeeps query, did he perhaps he might have had an issue with getting a large popcorn after saying you had a meal? I still think what him having an issue with what is essentially someone else's food it is a little odd at this point, but then this could be manifested in different ways of course. Saying "Hey hey! I thought you'd had dinner already, look at the size of that?! :)", in a jokey way is fine, close to the knuckle, but you could get away with it. 

But as  many of you (including kaypeeps) have agreed, staring at you like you have two heads for daring to have something sweet after a meal, snatching your own food away from you and guilt tripping you is just odd in my opinion.  Especially on a first date.

The thing that put up red flags with me is that she's second guessing herself, because he seems such a nice guy and the behavior he showed seems to suddenly deviate from that, if only for a few seconds.  When she explained it was he seems to suddenly switch from nice guy to a few seconds of uncharacteristic weird guy even if it is difficult to read in the middle of a cinema. I'm also worried that it might be a little chink in the armour revealing something unpleasant.  I think she's taken this opinion on with cheerful skepticism - after all I am one to go off on the deep end! :), and I know he was anything like that she would kick him to the kerb immediately before he even got a chance to get his claws in.

At this point she was very much weighing up the situation and has asked me for advice, she is not worried about him, just perturbed at what she felt were weird red flags.   He is back to the funny, cheerful guy on the email, text and calls, and wants to meet up again on Friday to go to 'popular chicken piri piri restaurant" then a few drinks afterwards at a popular pub. She's already told him she has to get up early the next day so it cant be a late one.

So she is going to go out with him one more time in public, and is keeping wary.  I've said she can use me as a get out excuse (mad hormonal friend on the phone and her cat's on fire - gotta go bye!) scenario.   If they are eating, I have said to watch out for any weird behaviour then, and see what happens, but to watch !  will give you an update, as you'd better believe I'll be on the phone to her to get one myself! :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: SuperMartianRobotGirl on September 12, 2012, 09:36:30 AM
Huge red flag. I have a first date story this reminds me of. I met a guy while I was jogging at a linear park. He was jogging too, and we got to chatting. We agreed to meet at a restaurant. When I ordered, he said to me, in front of the waitress, "Don't get that. It'll make you fat."

Uh huh.

I quietly picked up my purse and walked the heck out, in front of the waitress, without saying a word.

And, oddly, he called me later wanting to go out again.

Anyway, my rule is any issues around food = date over, no more dates. You don't want to be with someone who tells you what/how much you're allowed to eat. And I bet this is about movie popcorn being fattening.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Ms_Cellany on September 12, 2012, 09:38:58 AM
Depending on the timing, I might have gone out and bought another bag for myself.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: WillyNilly on September 12, 2012, 09:45:50 AM
It doesn't sound like a control issue to me so much as an eating disorder of some type.

Eating disorders ARE about control. (Not just about control, but control is a major factor.)

Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

I agree with most of this post, but the bolded sounds kind of like you're criticizing the friend too for wanting to eat popcorn at the movies.  :-\ Maybe just an internet-no-tone thing.

Internet tone thing.  Thats not at all what I meant (and why I used the word "seemingly").

I don't think think there's anything wrong with eating popcorn, even a large, even after dinner, in general.  Its a whole grain, and its a lot of air.  Sure sometimes the oil its popped in or what its topped with are a problem, but I'm not her nutritionist or Dr and that is not my call to make - she might have a lifestyle that absolutely allows for that.

I think however, from the info given that he might have saw her behavior as mindless eating, due to the factors he had (he was told she ate dinner, he saw her upgrade a size without a word to him, etc) and if he has food intake issues (for himself... or for others) he would react badly to the situation.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: JenJay on September 12, 2012, 09:53:27 AM
I think she still should have said, loudly enough to be heard, "I'll take that now, thanks!" followed by "Are you refusing to give me my popcorn?" if he didn't hand it over. I'd normally never advocate disturbing other moviegoers but it wouldn't have taken but a moment and the intel would have been worth it.

On the one hand it does sound like he was trying to prevent her from eating the popcorn, but at the same time it's possible he didn't hear her ask for it back. It's possible he was annoyed because he felt like she made him hold it for her. Then again, when he snapped at her to leave it on the floor? No. There's no way to misinterpret that. How did she react? Did she say "Don't be silly! Who would waste half a bag of yummy movie popcorn?!" or did she leave it?

If I were her I'd have a long talk with my instincts and ask them if I should give him one more date or run. If I did go out with him again it would have to include a meal so I could gauge his reactions to my eating habits.

Edited after having read the update - I'm interested in how it goes Friday. Tell her, if it seems to be going well after dinner, she needs to figure out a way to get hold of some popcorn and see if he goes all  :o again. lol
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: MorgnsGrl on September 12, 2012, 09:54:02 AM
Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

I think I might just be having a hard time buying this theory because as someone with a lot of disordered-eating thoughts and behaviors, it NEVER occurs to me to think about someone else's eating. I'm way too busy (overly, ridiculously busy) policing my own food, and/or silently fretting about what other people MIGHT be thinking about what I am eating.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 09:54:23 AM
I think however, from the info given that he might have saw her behavior as mindless eating, due to the factors he had (he was told she ate dinner, he saw her upgrade a size without a word to him, etc) and if he has food intake issues (for himself... or for others) he would react badly to the situation.

Ah, gotcha. We're in agreement then--he was projecting his own issues onto her.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: hobish on September 12, 2012, 09:58:47 AM

I'm not gonig to psychoanalyze the guy - we really don't know what is up with the friend of a friend of an internet pal, really - but that does sound mighty odd. I think your friend is smart in how she is continuing her interactions with the dude - meeting in public, seeing how he acts in an eating situation, etc. Best of luck to her; i am very interested in hearing an update.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: weeblewobble on September 12, 2012, 10:01:24 AM
Just imagine his reaction if she'd had the "audacity" to eat a full meal in front of him. 

This was all about control.  How dare his date want to EAT in front of him, and then, she had the gall to ask for access to something she purchased for herself, when he'd clearly taken steps to keep it from her.  Really, shame on her.  ::)

Also, I read the "shoveling the popcorn into his mouth" bit as him trying to get rid of as much popcorn as he could so she could eat less of it. But that's just me.   

I don't care what his damage is, this guy doesn't deserve a second chance. It would be like saying, "Hey, you didn't do enough to try to control and make me feel bad for doing something totally normal.  Please, take another whack at it!"  It's not her job to fix him, just to keep him from trying to control her further.

Seriously, do not tell me how much/what/when I should eat.  If you aren't my doctor, it's none of your business.  When I was interning with a bunch of other students, we went out to dinner as group to get to know each other. We were at this great Mexican place and I saw carne asada on the menu.  I LOVE carne asada so I said I was going to order that.   Another guy at the table, Will, said, yeah, that sounds good, I'll have that, too. 

But the guy sitting across from me, Chris, said, "No, you don't want that, Weeble, you want the grilled chicken tacos."

Please note the grilled chicken tacos were on the "light side" menu, and were not served with guacamole, sour cream, cheese, refried beans or anything.  It was just grilled chicken, soft taco shells, lettuce, tomatoes and onions.

Being young and naive and unaware of how (insert naughty adjective here) this behavior was, I just smiled blithely and said, "No, that doesn't sound good.  I'm going to stick with carne asada."  And he just kept saying, "No, you're going to have the grilled chicken tacos." in this assertive, instructive tone of voice, as if I had no choice in the matter and grilled chicken tacos were a foregone conclusion.   He even said it to the waiter when we ordered.  I shook my head and re-stated my order. 

I didn't know this guy.  I'd literally met him a few hours earlier. It only occured to me to really irritated about it much later. Also note that Chris didn't say a dang word to Will about his ordering the same dish. 

Chris (who was eating an enormous portion of something covered in refried beans) sat there and made disdainful cringing faces as I ate my delicious carne asada, and kept making comments about how he couldn't believe I was eating THAT MUCH.  I ignored him. I just thought he was being a jerk and didn't pay much attention.

But in the months that followed, I noticed that he did this to every girl in the group at some point, if they sat close enough during a meal.  Most just ignored him and ate what they wanted.  A few girls said, "Oh, OK, I guess I'll have (Chris' suggestion)."  And wouldn't you know, those were the girls he asked out.  Because those were the girls he could control.  One of them had the misfortune of agreeing to be his girlfriend and he engaged in full-time food policing for her, ordering for her in restaurants, telling her what she could and couldn't have from her bagged lunch at the office, taking candy or snacks out of her work desk because she "didn't need them."

Guys like this are bad news.  They start with small controlling gestures to see how much you will let them get away with.  And it's always disguised under a thick layer of "I'm just concerned for you, want the best for you, baby."  It's wrong and not at all what you want in a relationship.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: weeblewobble on September 12, 2012, 10:08:56 AM
And I've discussed the term, "gaslighting" here before.  But the "fake smiles" after doing something weird and controlling (usually after the victim has relented) and the return to being the funny email guy after a rather confusing, upsetting encounter is classic gaslighting.  It's intended to put the victim off-balance, to make her doubt her judgment and whether what she thinks happened was really what happened.  And if it did, was it all that bad?

It's a survival mechanism for abusive people.  Seriously, if they were sign-carrying jerks all of the time, they'd be much easier to spot and couldn't access victims.

Note to self: Talk to my local legislator about requiring abusive jerks to carry signs...
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 12, 2012, 10:09:22 AM
Oh HUGE red flag.  As in Curiosity could probably see it from Mars, that's how big it is.  I'd be running the other way, rather than dealing with this guy any more.   

No one keeps me from my vigorously buttered popcorn!!

I completely POD Weeble.  I knew a guy like this and I know it sounds bad, but I breathed a sigh of relief when I found out that she finally decided to divorce him. He didn't so much control what she ate but he was controlling and manipulative in other ways.  I think it was because he was nice in some ways that she did end up marrying him.

This guy did once criticize middle son for being pudgy...when he was around 3 or 4. Yeah, and this guy had a beer gut so he didn't exactly have the room to talk.  His wife is on the small side, as in 5', and curvy and one day in college he was eating Super Chunk peanut butter and asked her if she was his super chunk and then wondered why she was so hurt.  ::)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: weeblewobble on September 12, 2012, 10:14:37 AM
Piratelvr, I swear I just heard Capt. Jack announce, "It shall be buttered, VIGOROUSLY!"  :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Hillia on September 12, 2012, 10:23:35 AM
Agree with all the previous posters about the control issue.  Since you say your friend doesn't usually have trouble standing up for herself, I would be tempted to have one more meal date - lunch, dinner - somewhere casual where she wouldn't feel any hesitation at all about saying something loudly ('Hey, put the chips back where I can reach them, please!) or leaving at the first sign of controlling behavior, just to flesh it out.  More out of curiousity, really, than anything else, because I agree this guy is giving off some huge 'run away!' vibes.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Amava on September 12, 2012, 10:30:47 AM
That gives me the creeps and my first gut feeling screamed: "I would not have any contact with him again."

However, I have not met the guy and I was not there; so if I thought there was a chance I had misinterpreted his popcorn behaviour and really liked him otherwise, I would give him another chance for a date. But the date would certainly involve food, and would take place in an environment where there is more light and where communication can be clearer. If he acted normal while I ordered and ate two hamburgers, I would be reassured that I had been imagining things. But if he started acting weird again, or criticized my eating, that would be the nail in the coffin.

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Kaypeep on September 12, 2012, 10:42:40 AM
Thanks for the update.  I still think your friend should have been more assertive (especially with the cost of popcorn!) but that's neither here nor there.  As long as she's not having a full fledged conversation, as a fellow movie goer I would not have a problem with someone near me saying "please give me the popcorn bag."  But anyway... 

I think maybe this isn't a food issue but a "jerk" issue where he's teasing her.  She asks for it and he holds onto it tightly so she can't get it?  I could see a jerk doing this with anything.  A magazine, the tv remote, the salt and pepper, etc.  Since it was a theater and she dropped the issue, she couldn't see how far it would go.  Perhaps she should go on one more date and see if he tries this stunt again.  He might just be immature.  Only she can be the judge and one more date wouldn't be too risky, I think, if she truly thinks he has some other good qualities. But she should be prepared to walk away immediately if he does it again or makes her feel bad.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: lowspark on September 12, 2012, 10:45:24 AM
I agree with everyone who says RED FLAG. There is no way I'd give this guy a second chance.

But honestly, over and above that, it doesn't really matter whether we all think it's a red flag or not. Even if everyone here said, "hey, it's no big deal, it's perfectly normal for a guy to make faces when you order popcorn at the movies and then proceed to hoard it and not let you have any", it bothered your friend. And if someone does something like that, on a first date, something that bothers you enough that you are telling a friend about it, well, do you really need to go out a second time?

As a PP said, first dates are supposed to be BEST behavior. You're trying to impress your date enough to make them want to see you again. If his best "first date" behavior is something that (a) bothers you, and (b) is weird and hard to interpret, do you really want to see the "I no longer have to impress you so I'll relax more" behavior?

My advice to your friend is to cancel the second date and move on.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think?
Post by: Decimus on September 12, 2012, 10:46:13 AM
[snip]
She thinks its now gone past the bringing it up phase with him, as it was late when the film finished, he was all smiles again, she had to get home, and is not sure after a few days of it bugging her how she would then bring up something with him that she thinks might be seen as trivial. Like she said, he'd be immediately fine after it like nothing had happened so again she's unsure of whether he noticed he was doing it.  Hence coming to me and me coming to Ehell.

[snip]

The popcorn thing is weird.  And it has not gone past the point of asking about it.  relationships are built on communication.  Since she's still seeing this guy, there's no reason she can't say something like "I'm sorry, but this is still bugging me even after X [days/weeks/months].  What was up with you and the popcorn at the movies?"

If she asks, she'll feel better because it will stop bugging her.  And she'll know from his reply what to make of it.  Does he get defensive?  Admit an eating disorder?  Apologise?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: O'Dell on September 12, 2012, 10:59:06 AM
“The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
― Maya Angelou

He's shown her.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 12, 2012, 11:06:48 AM
Piratelvr, I swear I just heard Capt. Jack announce, "It shall be buttered, VIGOROUSLY!"  :)

LOL! I've been using that line since Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland came out and the Mad Hatter says "On the Frabjous day, I shall futterwhacken vigorously!"  I once told the guy at the concession stand that I wanted my popcorn buttered vigorously and he giggled and my popcorn was indeed buttered quite vigorously! :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Cz. Burrito on September 12, 2012, 11:23:47 AM
What everyone else said.  His "best side" is a jerk.  I don't want to see his normal side.

If I did give him a second chance, I would be sure to make it a Mexican place with unlimited chips, or at least a place where I could order a giant dessert. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Betelnut on September 12, 2012, 11:29:15 AM
Another problem I have with the guy is that he (apparently) didn't think to clean up after himself at the theater.  Just leaving trash on the floor is a big no-no to me.

I wouldn't want to go out with him again.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: thlayly on September 12, 2012, 11:29:22 AM
I think this is a huge red flag, and he reminds me of an ex of mine. He would say something strange or insulting, I'd try to call him on it and he'd act all offended and surprised that I thought anything was wrong. Ugh.

Also, I think this is an issue of control for him, not his own disordered eating. I have suffered from an eating disorder- even at my worst I never thought other people could not eat. I would never ration or even think to ration someone else's food. However, I do not pretend to be an expert- this is all based only on my experience.

I really think she ought to cancel the date. After that sort of behavior on a first date I would not give him a second chance.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: still in va on September 12, 2012, 11:39:31 AM
“The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
― Maya Angelou

He's shown her.

one of the tenets by which i live my life.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: rose red on September 12, 2012, 11:53:02 AM
I have an uncle who hates fat people and will make fun of relatives who are heavy right to their faces.  Of course, he controlled what our aunt ate and made remarks if she gain weight.  We all hate him and avoid their family as much as possible for this and many other reasons.  If he can't be avoided, we don't speak to him or give it right back (I love being an adult  >:D).  My generation all felt sorry for Aunt when we were children, but no more.  We also hear our parents speak and they've also lost all sympathy for her because she just accepts it and laugh off or be defensive about all our concerns.  Maybe she just got used to it and think it's normal and feel the same way he does after all these years?

My advice, like others, is RUN FOR THE HILLS.  It may be one little thing in an otherwise "nice" guy now, but things will keep popping up in the future and it will be harder to untangle herself.

eta: even if he's the one with the eating problem (If it's an eating problem.  It may be something else), he's already making it a problem for her.

eta2:  If she does give him a second chance, she should talk to him about it.  There's a chance he may have a reasonable explanation, but it does need to be talked about so she can stop second guessing herself.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: cicero on September 12, 2012, 12:13:54 PM
i would run run run from this guy. I don't care *what* his reasoning for snatching away the pop corn might be. it.wasn't.his.popcorn. I would not give this guy a second chance - and i am the queen of second chances. this is just too weird.

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: RingTailedLemur on September 12, 2012, 12:20:09 PM
The sudden snap between being nasty guy and lovely guy is a HUGE red flag for me.  Massive.

(http://www.eventprophire.com/_images/products/large/red_flag.jpg)

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Auntie Mame on September 12, 2012, 12:25:42 PM
And I've discussed the term, "gaslighting" here before.  But the "fake smiles" after doing something weird and controlling (usually after the victim has relented) and the return to being the funny email guy after a rather confusing, upsetting encounter is classic gaslighting.  It's intended to put the victim off-balance, to make her doubt her judgment and whether what she thinks happened was really what happened.  And if it did, was it all that bad?

It's a survival mechanism for abusive people.  Seriously, if they were sign-carrying jerks all of the time, they'd be much easier to spot and couldn't access victims.

Note to self: Talk to my local legislator about requiring abusive jerks to carry signs...

Totally agree Weeble, I jumped straight to gaslighting as well. 

This is just...wierd, just plain wierd.

What freaks me out the most is the Jekyll and Hyde act he was pulling.  Please keep us updated, and tell your friend to be careful.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: siamesecat2965 on September 12, 2012, 12:26:27 PM
I triple, quadruple, etc. the red flag.  I don't care if I've just consumed an entire pizza, a triple caramel latte with extra whipped cream and a cookie, and THEN ordered popcorn.  Anyone who tries to control what I eat, that I paid for will not be getting a second chance.  It's no one's business what I eat, how much, or when and where.  You have issues with that, do let the door hit you on the way out!  It does sound controlling, and I won't put up with that.

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Cat-Fu on September 12, 2012, 12:39:25 PM
That's just... weird. I'm trying really hard, but I can't think of any rational reason to hoard your date's popcorn on the first date! I hope that your friend is prepared to walk out at any signs of irrational food control attempts at her next date! I would be canceling the second date, myself, but if your friend wants to give him a chance that badly, I do hope she is safe about it!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Judah on September 12, 2012, 12:42:24 PM
The sudden snap between being nasty guy and lovely guy is a HUGE red flag for me.  Massive.

I agree; that's the weirdest part for me. But I wouldn't have let the popcorn hoarding pass without asking, "what's your deal? Give me my popcorn."  And I would make him explain himself.  I don't think it's too late for that.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: SiotehCat on September 12, 2012, 12:46:00 PM
Red flag.

I would have been annoyed that he knew he didn't want me to eat popcorn, but let me buy it anyway knowing that he was going to keep it from me. I would have preferred he just tell me that he didn't want me to buy the popcorn.

Of course, then I would have walked away at the beginning because he thought he could tell me how to spend my money and what to put in my body.

If I were in the OP's friends position, I would have bought another bag of popcorn just to show that I can do whatever I want.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: #borecore on September 12, 2012, 12:56:10 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Cz. Burrito on September 12, 2012, 01:02:06 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!

The hostile "just leave it!" is what does in any explanation or possible misinterpretation for me.  Either he was crabby about the popcorn or he leaves his trash laying around or both.  Either way, not somebody I'd want to see again.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: rashea on September 12, 2012, 01:05:17 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!

Had he kept it in his lap, yeah, I would guess that. But, he put it on the floor.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 12, 2012, 01:11:17 PM
I've been thinking about this one for a bit before responding. I think it's a big miscommunication from both sides and the guy is probably not controlling her food intake or hates fat people, etc. I'm basing this on a few things from the original post:

1. When the guy sees the popcorn, he visibly frowns and gives her what she feels is an odd look.

If I had said to someone that I don't want any snacks, and then they come back with what clearly looks like popcorn for two, I'd be slightly miffed myself because I would feel like my preference had been ignored and I'm being manipulated into eating something I didn't want. The OP even points out that she got the larger size in case he wanted to share. He may have felt she didn't respect his decision not to have any but now that she had purchased it, he was obligated. His strange look may have been about that more than he was miffed she got something for herself. Also, my experience with guys is that they all tend to eat popcorn in big messy handfuls instead of 1-2 at a time like women do so the description of him shoveling it in doesn't make me think he was trying to keep it to himself just that he lacks...finesse. I learned early on that if I wanted my share of uncrushed popcorn, I need my own container.

2. and he gives her the drink back but holds on to the popcorn.

This might be his attempt at chivalry -- the guy holds the greasy popcorn for the lady so she doesn't have to juggle two containers. From the description, they are in the hallway at this point and this is where she should have insisted to get her snack back rather than wait until they are in the theater. If she didn't reach for it or ask for it, he may not have thought it was OK to force it back to her.

3. He “lets” her take another handful, but then puts the popcorn down, by his feet away from her.

"let's her" is a prejudicial way of saying it so I'm going to think that she simply took another handful while he was still holding it and there was no begging on her part and his acquiescence. Since she was putting the popcorn in her lap, he may have been tired of holding the bucket and didn't think she wanted any more. When she asked for some more, he could have simply given her the container to be sure but did she reach for the bag to take it or did she just stick her hand in? He may have been waiting for her to simply take it since he clearly doesn't want it. It's also a dark place and he's probably trying to concentrate on the movie so holding firmly might have been because he didn't realize she was taking the container from him and thought it would get knocked over.

The third time she indicates she would like some of her own popcorn again, she thinks he audibly tutts at her.  Embarrassed, this is the last time she reaches for her popcorn.

Again did she reach for the bag to take it or just put her hand in to get some popcorn? If he keeps holding it out to her and all she does is take a couple pieces each time, he may have been exasperated at continually being the keeper of the bag and being interrupted. Lots of people like to "get lost in" an action movie like Batman, he sounds annoyed that she seems to be more interested in the popcorn and keeps "pulling him out." I'm a bit befuddled myself that through this whole movie date, she's just so fixated on that popcorn.

At the end, why did she need to just leave it, why didn't she just respond to him that she was taking the rest home? So I vote not a red flag, just two people who didn't clearly communicate their desires.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 01:19:08 PM
If I had said to someone that I don't want any snacks, and then they come back with what clearly looks like popcorn for two, I'd be slightly miffed myself because I would feel like my preference had been ignored and I'm being manipulated into eating something I didn't want. The OP even points out that she got the larger size in case he wanted to share. He may have felt she didn't respect his decision not to have any but now that she had purchased it, he was obligated.

This is foreign to me simply because at the theaters near me, often times a bigger popcorn gets you other perks whether you actually want all that popcorn or not. For example, at one place I can think of, the way to get refills on your soda is to upgrade, for something like twenty cents, to a deal that comes with a larger popcorn, and as far as I know there isn't really any other way to get the soda refill. I would just assume it was the better deal in some way, and not an obligation to eat.

Again did she reach for the bag to take it or just put her hand in to get some popcorn? If he keeps holding it out to her and all she does is take a couple pieces each time, he may have been exasperated at continually being the keeper of the bag and being interrupted. Lots of people like to "get lost in" an action movie like Batman, he sounds annoyed that she seems to be more interested in the popcorn and keeps "pulling him out." I'm a bit befuddled myself that through this whole movie date, she's just so fixated on that popcorn.

She was very specifically not fixated--in fact the reason she was taking larger handfuls was so she wouldn't have to interrupt either of them as often as if she reached over for a kernel or two every time she wanted a bite.

At the end, why did she need to just leave it, why didn't she just respond to him that she was taking the rest home?

I agree that this is the point where she should have said something--since it was no longer "quiet time"--but it sounds like she was just boggled into silence by his weird behavior.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: ilrag on September 12, 2012, 01:25:06 PM
The thing is it doesn't matter if he was nice/perfect/charming for the rest of their interactions it's that THIS part of his personality bothers the date.

There would be a lot less heart break in the world if jerks were jerks all the time. I imagine that most people who have dated can relate to the feeling that "but s/he's so nice except for _____"  Because there would be no reason to date some one who was always a jerk.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 12, 2012, 01:37:12 PM
If I had said to someone that I don't want any snacks, and then they come back with what clearly looks like popcorn for two, I'd be slightly miffed myself because I would feel like my preference had been ignored and I'm being manipulated into eating something I didn't want. The OP even points out that she got the larger size in case he wanted to share. He may have felt she didn't respect his decision not to have any but now that she had purchased it, he was obligated.

This is foreign to me simply because at the theaters near me, often times a bigger popcorn gets you other perks whether you actually want all that popcorn or not. For example, at one place I can think of, the way to get refills on your soda is to upgrade, for something like twenty cents, to a deal that comes with a larger popcorn, and as far as I know there isn't really any other way to get the soda refill. I would just assume it was the better deal in some way, and not an obligation to eat.

I've just never seen the point of spending more to get a larger size than I was intending to eat just because it's a "better deal." I also don't take free things if I don't intend to use/eat them, or buy 2 of something if I can't actually use 2. I can't imagine wanting to leave the movie to refill a soda. There are two sides to every story -- I'm just giving an alternate explanation other than he's making some sort of power play.

Again did she reach for the bag to take it or just put her hand in to get some popcorn? If he keeps holding it out to her and all she does is take a couple pieces each time, he may have been exasperated at continually being the keeper of the bag and being interrupted. Lots of people like to "get lost in" an action movie like Batman, he sounds annoyed that she seems to be more interested in the popcorn and keeps "pulling him out." I'm a bit befuddled myself that through this whole movie date, she's just so fixated on that popcorn.

She was very specifically not fixated--in fact the reason she was taking larger handfuls was so she wouldn't have to interrupt either of them as often as if she reached over for a kernel or two every time she wanted a bite.

 But she should have just taken the bag. She kept taking handfuls out of the bag leaving him well...holding the bag. By putting it on the floor he indicated he was done eating and didn't want to hold it.

At the end, why did she need to just leave it, why didn't she just respond to him that she was taking the rest home?

I agree that this is the point where she should have said something--since it was no longer "quiet time"--but it sounds like she was just boggled into silence by his weird behavior.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 01:38:49 PM
But she should have just taken the bag. She kept taking handfuls out of the bag leaving him well...holding the bag. By putting it on the floor he indicated he was done eating and didn't want to hold it.

Then why didn't he hand it to her? She paid for it; she owned it. It was not his. If she then didn't want it either, she could have put it on the floor herself--but it was hers and should have gone back to her if he wanted nothing to do with it.

And as for whether it's OK to get extra popcorn because it's a better deal--even if you don't believe in that sort of thing, couldn't she have just actually wanted a large popcorn for herself? No matter what her reason for getting a large popcorn, it doesn't obligate the guy to eat any, and it's not up to him to approve or disapprove of how much food she bought with her own money.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 12, 2012, 01:41:52 PM
You can hold it out to a person but you can't make them take it is my thought on that. She didn't make a move to take the bag, just handfuls of popcorn.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 01:43:26 PM
You can hold it out to a person but you can't make them take it is my thought on that. She didn't make a move to take the bag, just handfuls of popcorn.

I'm pretty sure that if he had ever tried to pass the whole bag to her, she would have taken it. He didn't. Instead he kept a death grip on it.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Auntie Mame on September 12, 2012, 01:43:31 PM
2. and he gives her the drink back but holds on to the popcorn.

This might be his attempt at chivalry -- the guy holds the greasy popcorn for the lady so she doesn't have to juggle two containers. From the description, they are in the hallway at this point and this is where she should have insisted to get her snack back rather than wait until they are in the theater. If she didn't reach for it or ask for it, he may not have thought it was OK to force it back to her.

3. He “lets” her take another handful, but then puts the popcorn down, by his feet away from her.

"let's her" is a prejudicial way of saying it so I'm going to think that she simply took another handful while he was still holding it and there was no begging on her part and his acquiescence. Since she was putting the popcorn in her lap, he may have been tired of holding the bucket and didn't think she wanted any more. When she asked for some more, he could have simply given her the container to be sure but did she reach for the bag to take it or did she just stick her hand in? He may have been waiting for her to simply take it since he clearly doesn't want it. It's also a dark place and he's probably trying to concentrate on the movie so holding firmly might have been because he didn't realize she was taking the container from him and thought it would get knocked over.

But what about 2 facts you left out 1) He was shoveling popcorn into his mouth when she wasn't there 2) he had a death grip on the bag

Food aside, anyone who switches back and forth from mean to nice several times in a nigt raises serious red flags with me.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 01:44:43 PM
Food aside, anyone who switches back and forth from mean to nice several times in a nigt raises serious red flags with me.

Yeah, the bellowing "Leave it!" followed by the smileyness is just plain weird.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Moray on September 12, 2012, 01:44:50 PM
You can hold it out to a person but you can't make them take it is my thought on that. She didn't make a move to take the bag, just handfuls of popcorn.

I'm pretty sure that if he had ever tried to pass the whole bag to her, she would have taken it. He didn't. Instead he kept a death grip on it.

Yeah, if someone is holding the bag so tight I can't get my hand in, that doesn't exactly prompt me to think "Oh, he must want me to take the whole bag."
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 12, 2012, 01:47:57 PM
2. and he gives her the drink back but holds on to the popcorn.

This might be his attempt at chivalry -- the guy holds the greasy popcorn for the lady so she doesn't have to juggle two containers. From the description, they are in the hallway at this point and this is where she should have insisted to get her snack back rather than wait until they are in the theater. If she didn't reach for it or ask for it, he may not have thought it was OK to force it back to her.

3. He “lets” her take another handful, but then puts the popcorn down, by his feet away from her.

"let's her" is a prejudicial way of saying it so I'm going to think that she simply took another handful while he was still holding it and there was no begging on her part and his acquiescence. Since she was putting the popcorn in her lap, he may have been tired of holding the bucket and didn't think she wanted any more. When she asked for some more, he could have simply given her the container to be sure but did she reach for the bag to take it or did she just stick her hand in? He may have been waiting for her to simply take it since he clearly doesn't want it. It's also a dark place and he's probably trying to concentrate on the movie so holding firmly might have been because he didn't realize she was taking the container from him and thought it would get knocked over.

But what about 2 facts you left out 1) He was shoveling popcorn into his mouth when she wasn't there 2) he had a death grip on the bag

Food aside, anyone who switches back and forth from mean to nice several times in a nigt raises serious red flags with me.

I didn't leave that out the eating part, I addressed in #1 which you edited out. I don't think he was switching back and forth from mean to nice is my point. Everyone is interpreting his behavior in a certain way that may not be true.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: rose red on September 12, 2012, 01:48:25 PM
If he thought it was weird or wasteful to buy a large popcorn, he could have asked why she got a large.  If he didn't want to hold the bag anymore, he could have said "I'm done.  Here." 

What he did sounds really weird and creepy with the quick mood swings.

And nevermind what we think.  The behavior is strange enough for his date to question it and bring it up to her friend (the OP).
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 12, 2012, 01:50:59 PM
The sudden snap between being nasty guy and lovely guy is a HUGE red flag for me.  Massive.

I agree; that's the weirdest part for me. But I wouldn't have let the popcorn hoarding pass without asking, "what's your deal? Give me my popcorn."  And I would make him explain himself.  I don't think it's too late for that.

I think it's the Jekyll and Hyde thing that usually works for this kind of guy to ensnare women.  The "Okay so he has this fault but he's nice most of the time!"  ::)  Our friend who's getting divorced is dealing with this in her stbx. One day he's nice, the next he's giving her a very clear reminder of why she's done with him.  And when she doesn't respond to his nice moments because she rightly doesn't trust him, he's whining that she's so awful and meeeean!"  ::)

So, yeah, don't go into the basement, don't look under the stairs, don't go into the bar, Penhall! 

Sorry, got carried away there.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Tabby Uprising on September 12, 2012, 01:51:08 PM
You can hold it out to a person but you can't make them take it is my thought on that. She didn't make a move to take the bag, just handfuls of popcorn.

I'm pretty sure that if he had ever tried to pass the whole bag to her, she would have taken it. He didn't. Instead he kept a death grip on it.

Not only that, but the OP mentions he had it on his lap away from her.  Friend had to lean across him to get the bag.  It makes no sense.  If he didn't want the popcorn why on earth didn't he just give her the bag? I mean, he gave her the drink.  If he can give someone their drink that he does not want, he can give them the popcorn. 

I don't understand the idea that he could interpret her ordering a large popcorn as ignoring his preferences.  He does not want popcorn. He does not eat popcorn regardless of the size his date orders.  Why is her ordering a popcorn big enough to share ignoring his preferences?  To the point where he'd frown about it?  Really, that's reaching.  It wasn't like she kept forcing popcorn on him or telling him to eat it. 


edited to say: Exactly, Rose Red!  What's that phrase I've read on e-hell - use your words!! And darn, I want movie theater popcorn now... all to myself.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: QueenfaninCA on September 12, 2012, 02:03:57 PM
I think there might be a more innocent explanation to his behaviour. He, like me, might hate if someone near them its popcorn during a movie. I don't mind people eating something, but popcorn is on of those things which almost always is not noiseless. And I prefer to enjoy quietness around me when spending the money to watch a movie in the theater. He just might have been really bad at communicating.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: rashea on September 12, 2012, 02:05:16 PM
I think there might be a more innocent explanation to his behaviour. He, like me, might hate if someone near them its popcorn during a movie. I don't mind people eating something, but popcorn is on of those things which almost always is not noiseless. And I prefer to enjoy quietness around me when spending the money to watch a movie in the theater. He just might have been really bad at communicating.

Someone that bad about communicating would be a dealbreaker for me as well.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: WillyNilly on September 12, 2012, 02:08:24 PM
I'm with Lazy Daisy... and I think it merits pointing out so is the OP's friend who went on the this date - she is after all going on another date with the guy.

Yes his behavior was off.  Yes it was strange and it absolutely warrants a closer look.  But there are possible explanations.  It could be as LazyDaisy is suggesting and an awkward attempt at chivalry mixed with a 'gets lost in action movies' personality.  Or it could be as I mentioned a food issue of his own and being presented with an unexpected temptation and close proximity to someone indulging while he has to use every ounce of self control to hold back.  ETA: Or maybe its like QueenfaninCA suggested and he thinks eating popcorn during the movie is loud and distracting or even obnoxious to listen to (which could explain eating a lot before the film started but being unforthcoming with it during the film).  Or maybe its some other strange issue.

And sure maybe it is because he's a jerk.  That is one of many possibilities.  But clearly the person who met him and experienced this behavior felt it was merely a possibility, not a sure thing, so she's going out to dinner with him.

The behavior I think we all agree was wrong and not pleasant or even acceptable, but that doesn't mean the whole man is a bad person.  I bet each and every poster on this site has at least one very annoying to some people, possibly all people, habit or trait.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Auntie Mame on September 12, 2012, 02:10:02 PM
Also, my experience with guys is that they all tend to eat popcorn in big messy handfuls instead of 1-2 at a time like women do so the description of him shoveling it in doesn't make me think he was trying to keep it to himself just that he lacks...finesse. I learned early on that if I wanted my share of uncrushed popcorn, I need my own container.

Yikes, where are you finding these guys?  The men I know have table manners.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Tabby Uprising on September 12, 2012, 02:12:30 PM
I'm with Lazy Daisy... and I think it merits pointing out so is the OP's friend who went on the this date - she is after all going on another date with the guy.

Yes his behavior was off.  Yes it was strange and it absolutely warrants a closer look.  But there are possible explanations.  It could be as LazyDaisy is suggesting and an awkward attempt at chivalry mixed with a 'gets lost in action movies' personality.  Or it could be as I mentioned a food issue of his own and being presented with an unexpected temptation and close proximity to someone indulging while he has to use every ounce of self control to hold back.  Or maybe its some other strange issue.

And sure maybe it is because he's a jerk.  That is one of many possibilities.  But clearly the person who met him and experienced this behavior felt it was merely a possibility, not a sure thing, so she's going out to dinner with him.

The behavior I think we all agree was wrong and not pleasant or even acceptable, but that doesn't mean the whole man is a bad person.  I bet each and every poster on this site has at least one very annoying to some people, possibly all people, habit or trait.

This is what I think makes a lot of sense.  And I agree that his behavior was bad, but he's not necessarily a bad guy. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: rose red on September 12, 2012, 02:19:14 PM
Of course we all have annoying habits, but this guy seems to be actively and knowingly trying to keep the popcorn away from her.  Shoving handfuls for himself while she was away.  Did not hand it over when she offered to hold the snacks.  Leaning away from her.  Frowning when she takes a handful.  Holding on to the bottom so she only has a limited access.  Putting it on the floor at his (not their) feet.  This is why a lot of the posters see the red flag.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: magicdomino on September 12, 2012, 02:20:48 PM
Red flag flying in the wind.

Generally, I'm pretty tolerant of social faux pas.  If it had been just one thing -- disapproving of the popcorn, placing it out of her reach, sharply telling her to leave the leftovers -- I might have forgiven it as socially inept.  But the package taken all together?   On a first date where you are supposed to be on your best behavior?  Sorry, I don't care what his exact issue is.   Life is too short to spend it with a jerk. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: JenJay on September 12, 2012, 02:29:13 PM
I think there might be a more innocent explanation to his behaviour. He, like me, might hate if someone near them its popcorn during a movie. I don't mind people eating something, but popcorn is on of those things which almost always is not noiseless. And I prefer to enjoy quietness around me when spending the money to watch a movie in the theater. He just might have been really bad at communicating.

If that were the case, though, he was still wildly out of line to take her popcorn and keep it from her.

If he couldn't bring himself to say "I hope this doesn't bother you, but I can't stand the sound of someone eating right next to me. Would you mind if we didn't get snacks?" then it was on him to sit silently and deal with the munching.

He doesn't get to decide OP's friend isn't allowed to do X just because he doesn't like it. That's why people are saying he was being controlling. Whether his reasoning was popcorn is noisy/unhealthy/smelly/whatever it's not okay for him to take the bag and prevent her from eating it.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: sparksals on September 12, 2012, 02:33:58 PM
“The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
― Maya Angelou

He's shown her.

Wiser Words have never been spoken. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Tabby Uprising on September 12, 2012, 02:40:20 PM
I think there might be a more innocent explanation to his behaviour. He, like me, might hate if someone near them its popcorn during a movie. I don't mind people eating something, but popcorn is on of those things which almost always is not noiseless. And I prefer to enjoy quietness around me when spending the money to watch a movie in the theater. He just might have been really bad at communicating.

If that were the case, though, he was still wildly out of line to take her popcorn and keep it from her.

If he couldn't bring himself to say "I hope this doesn't bother you, but I can't stand the sound of someone eating right next to me. Would you mind if we didn't get snacks?" then it was on him to sit silently and deal with the munching.

He doesn't get to decide OP's friend isn't allowed to do X just because he doesn't like it. That's why people are saying he was being controlling. Whether his reasoning was popcorn is noisy/unhealthy/smelly/whatever it's not okay for him to take the bag and prevent her from eating it.

And that makes the behavior even more rude in a way.  He doesn't like the sound of other people munching on popcorn, but it's okay for him to eat fistfuls of it? 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: rashea on September 12, 2012, 02:45:56 PM
To me, it's fine if he had any of the issues suggested. What's not fine is that he couldn't just tell her that. Instead, he exhibited very strange behavior, and deprived her of enjoying something she paid for. Then, after the movie, he couldn't just mention it with a quick explanation? At best, he's bad at communicating, at worst he's a controlling jerk.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: JenJay on September 12, 2012, 02:48:41 PM
To me, it's fine if he had any of the issues suggested. What's not fine is that he couldn't just tell her that. Instead, he exhibited very strange behavior, and deprived her of enjoying something she paid for. Then, after the movie, he couldn't just mention it with a quick explanation? At best, he's bad at communicating, at worst he's a controlling jerk.

Exactly
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: WillyNilly on September 12, 2012, 02:53:43 PM
To me, it's fine if he had any of the issues suggested. What's not fine is that he couldn't just tell her that. Instead, he exhibited very strange behavior, and deprived her of enjoying something she paid for. Then, after the movie, he couldn't just mention it with a quick explanation? At best, he's bad at communicating, at worst he's a controlling jerk.

Well we have to remember that going to a movie was a last minute decision, not a pre-established plan.  He might have been caught off guard.  And then after - well did you see Batman?  It was good and it was something to talk about too, it had a plot twist (which upon further dissection could be a major hole) and an end that could lead to interesting discussions (I thought the end tied up the whole series leaving no room for a sequel - the director will just move onto Superman next... but my DF though the end actually set the stage for a sequel... which of course just led us to discussing District 9 and when will that sequel be out because its been the 2 or 3 years or however long it was the alien promised be back by!) So maybe it was a bit of a combination of being caught off guard and being a bit embarrassed of himself and add in nervous about a first date and yeah stuff happens and things don't always get explained properly and promptly.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: CreteGirl on September 12, 2012, 02:58:01 PM
I love popcorn.  I surly do.  Many years ago, I was out to dinner with a boyfriend at a casual restaurant that served popcorn before a meal.  I was happily munching away, when he took the bowl from me, saying "I don't want my future wife to be fat".  We had never discussed marriage before.  My response was, "when I get married, it will be to someone who accepts me the way I am!".  I broke up with him, and later married my husband, who accepts me the way I am. 

Back then I was a size 6.

I wish I was still a size 6.

So I will echo "red flag!", and everything else that has been said about making a good impression on the first date.  There is no way his behavior will improve, it will only get worse. 

Run. Run. Run.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: JoieGirl7 on September 12, 2012, 03:11:16 PM
“The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
― Maya Angelou

He's shown her.

Wiser Words have never been spoken.

Absolutely!  This was not about popcorn at all.  Or about control.  This guy was unkind and rude--frowns, exasperation, keeping her treat away from her and wasting most of it.
 
Who cares why he behaved that way?  It was terribly inappropriate.

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Twik on September 12, 2012, 03:14:22 PM
He took food away from the person who legally owned it. His rudeness was mindboggling.

I cannot in any way see that this is excusable by "oh, he was nervous, poor guy." If his response to stress is to become rude and aggressive, the OP's friend should be getting out now. She's making a large mistake, IMHO, by hoping that this particular sow's ear will turn into a silk purse the next time.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: thlayly on September 12, 2012, 03:16:15 PM
I POD Twik completely.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Cz. Burrito on September 12, 2012, 03:53:56 PM
He took food away from the person who legally owned it. His rudeness was mindboggling.

I cannot in any way see that this is excusable by "oh, he was nervous, poor guy." If his response to stress is to become rude and aggressive, the OP's friend should be getting out now. She's making a large mistake, IMHO, by hoping that this particular sow's ear will turn into a silk purse the next time.

I agree with this.  The absolute best case scenario is that he was merely astoundingly rude on the first date.  It's only going to get worse from there.  I wouldn't want to date anybody whose response to any of the aforementioned scenarios is to behave like this.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Cat-Fu on September 12, 2012, 04:04:43 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!

Had he kept it in his lap, yeah, I would guess that. But, he put it on the floor.

You know, I've been thinking about this more, and I wonder if this isn't also a jerk-flirt move.  He placed the popcorn on the floor on the other side of him. If she wanted to get more popcorn herself, she'd have to lean over him and place her head strategically close to his lap. Throw in that the theatre probably wasn't that full and... :-X Perhaps she was ruining his "fun" by making him get her the popcorn.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: #borecore on September 12, 2012, 04:08:01 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!

Had he kept it in his lap, yeah, I would guess that. But, he put it on the floor.

You know, I've been thinking about this more, and I wonder if this isn't also a jerk-flirt move.  He placed the popcorn on the floor on the other side of him. If she wanted to get more popcorn herself, she'd have to lean over him and place her head strategically close to his lap. Throw in that the theatre probably wasn't that full and... :-X Perhaps she was ruining his "fun" by making him get her the popcorn.

That's what I was thinking.

It's very far from attractive (and thus would probably not get a second date from me), but it's possible it's not quite pathological.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Mikayla on September 12, 2012, 04:17:55 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!

I completely agree.  Also, it's hard to picture parts of this, but it almost sounds like the friend was sending mixed signals by not keeping the popcorn near her.  Even if he moved it for whatever reason, my response would have been to reclaim it or ask him to give it back.  I put my own popcorn on the floor all the time, so he may have just done it for convenience without thinking (if it wasn't a flirt-gone-bad).

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 12, 2012, 04:31:38 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!

Had he kept it in his lap, yeah, I would guess that. But, he put it on the floor.

You know, I've been thinking about this more, and I wonder if this isn't also a jerk-flirt move.  He placed the popcorn on the floor on the other side of him. If she wanted to get more popcorn herself, she'd have to lean over him and place her head strategically close to his lap. Throw in that the theatre probably wasn't that full and... :-X Perhaps she was ruining his "fun" by making him get her the popcorn.

Except that jerk flirts usually say things and do other things under the guise of a joke that really let you know for sure. If he were putting it on the floor to get her to bend across him, he'd probably say something about it when she did or lift his leg to brush against her or something. I think he was distracted by the movie and thoughtless. Lots of people are not very self-aware about that -- for example if he's right-handed he just naturally holds it with his right hand that happens to be away from the woman so she thinks he's keeping it away from her, but he's just not paying attention to it at all. And then he puts the bag by his right foot because it's an automatic thing.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Yvaine on September 12, 2012, 04:48:09 PM
My instinct is pretty different from others', given that the OP's friend is willing to give the guy a second chance. I don't immediately leap to eating disorders or a disastrously controlling future. I instead thought, "I wonder if he thought playing hard-to-get with the popcorn is flirtatious or fun?"

I have known guys, particularly immature ones, who think that making their date reach across them or be 'playful' with the snack is cute. I happen to strongly disagree with them, but I do wonder if it was coming from a place of awkwardness rather than abusiveness.

I would make date no. 2 a dinner or lunch date to get to talking more and to see if he acts weird around food in general, though!

Had he kept it in his lap, yeah, I would guess that. But, he put it on the floor.

You know, I've been thinking about this more, and I wonder if this isn't also a jerk-flirt move.  He placed the popcorn on the floor on the other side of him. If she wanted to get more popcorn herself, she'd have to lean over him and place her head strategically close to his lap. Throw in that the theatre probably wasn't that full and... :-X Perhaps she was ruining his "fun" by making him get her the popcorn.

Ewww, yuck, could be.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: 25wishes on September 12, 2012, 04:58:10 PM
If I was her, I would be thanking my lucky stars I found out about his "weirdness" on the first date, instead of later, say, at the rehearsal dinner.

Unless she is very forgiving or really needs someone to date, I would NOT be going on another date with this guy.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: blarg314 on September 12, 2012, 06:09:01 PM
If I was her, I would be thanking my lucky stars I found out about his "weirdness" on the first date, instead of later, say, at the rehearsal dinner.

Unless she is very forgiving or really needs someone to date, I would NOT be going on another date with this guy.

I go with this.

You can come up with a convoluted explanation that is relatively benign - he's got a phobia about sitting next to someone eating popcorn, but is embarrassed about it, so he was trying to eat all the popcorn before she got back, but didn't manage it, so he had to resort to making it as hard as possible to eat it, and is now ignoring it, and planning never to go to the movies with her again so he doesn't have to explain this.

Or, you can go with a much simpler, and much more likely explanation - he's got food issues of some sort, or it's a move, conscious or unconscious, to test whether she'll put up with bad treatment without standing up for herself, if she's kept off balance.

If she *is* still dating him, and she can't say "By the way, what was going on with the popcorn thing on our first date?" and get a decent answer, she's not headed for a particularly healthy or good relationship.


Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 12, 2012, 06:24:17 PM
If I was her, I would be thanking my lucky stars I found out about his "weirdness" on the first date, instead of later, say, at the rehearsal dinner.

Unless she is very forgiving or really needs someone to date, I would NOT be going on another date with this guy.

I go with this.

You can come up with a convoluted explanation that is relatively benign - he's got a phobia about sitting next to someone eating popcorn, but is embarrassed about it, so he was trying to eat all the popcorn before she got back, but didn't manage it, so he had to resort to making it as hard as possible to eat it, and is now ignoring it, and planning never to go to the movies with her again so he doesn't have to explain this.

Or, you can go with a much simpler, and much more likely explanation - he's got food issues of some sort, or it's a move, conscious or unconscious, to test whether she'll put up with bad treatment without standing up for herself, if she's kept off balance.

If she *is* still dating him, and she can't say "By the way, what was going on with the popcorn thing on our first date?" and get a decent answer, she's not headed for a particularly healthy or good relationship.

But to me this isn't a simpler or more likely explanation at all. It's more convoluted and conspiracy theory-like than just that he was thoughtless and distracted by the movie. I bet if she does ask "what was going on with the popcorn thing?" he'll be totally confused as what she's talking about because he doesn't even remember there was popcorn but he can describe in detail the latest incarnation of the batmobile and how it compares to the previous 5 movies.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Hillia on September 12, 2012, 06:58:36 PM
If I was her, I would be thanking my lucky stars I found out about his "weirdness" on the first date, instead of later, say, at the rehearsal dinner.

Unless she is very forgiving or really needs someone to date, I would NOT be going on another date with this guy.

I go with this.

You can come up with a convoluted explanation that is relatively benign - he's got a phobia about sitting next to someone eating popcorn, but is embarrassed about it, so he was trying to eat all the popcorn before she got back, but didn't manage it, so he had to resort to making it as hard as possible to eat it, and is now ignoring it, and planning never to go to the movies with her again so he doesn't have to explain this.

Or, you can go with a much simpler, and much more likely explanation - he's got food issues of some sort, or it's a move, conscious or unconscious, to test whether she'll put up with bad treatment without standing up for herself, if she's kept off balance.

If she *is* still dating him, and she can't say "By the way, what was going on with the popcorn thing on our first date?" and get a decent answer, she's not headed for a particularly healthy or good relationship.

But to me this isn't a simpler or more likely explanation at all. It's more convoluted and conspiracy theory-like than just that he was thoughtless and distracted by the movie. I bet if she does ask "what was going on with the popcorn thing?" he'll be totally confused as what she's talking about because he doesn't even remember there was popcorn but he can describe in detail the latest incarnation of the batmobile and how it compares to the previous 5 movies.

The fact that he gave her 'annoyed' looks and snapped about leaving the popcorn after the movie and actively kept the popcorn after she indicated pretty clearly that she wanted it back points to him being a thoughtless jerk rather than any food issues or distractions from the movie or anything else.  I would be inclined to go out with him again in the name of research, just to see what he does at an outdoor cafe when the OP orders a big meal for herself.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Isometric on September 12, 2012, 07:31:35 PM
This is so bizarre! I can't think of any logical explanation, apart from control inssues, like PP's have mentioned.

Definitely a red flag, at minimum.

I like second chances, so I agree with others who've said to order food again. As in, a massive slice of chocolate cake. With whipped cream. And hot chocolate with extra marshmallows.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Calypso on September 12, 2012, 11:06:04 PM
This is so bizarre! I can't think of any logical explanation, apart from control inssues, like PP's have mentioned.

Definitely a red flag, at minimum.

I like second chances, so I agree with others who've said to order food again. As in, a massive slice of chocolate cake. With whipped cream. And hot chocolate with extra marshmallows.

POD all of this.
I read the OP to my sweetie, and he found it appallingly bad manners, at the very least (but then, he has the antiquated notion that women are wonderful and should be treated honorably whether you're dating them or not).

And I'll go so far as to say, a man who counts every bite you put into your mouth is likely to be equally tight-reared and stingy in other ways----say, when playing Scrabble.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Kitty Hawk on September 13, 2012, 12:37:11 AM

Who cares why he behaved that way?  It was terribly inappropriate.

I agree with this.  I wouldn't care why he acted that way or what kind of problem he had, I just plain wouldn't want to deal with it. And I wouldn't give him another chance, either.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Iris on September 13, 2012, 03:22:44 AM

Who cares why he behaved that way?  It was terribly inappropriate.

I agree with this.  I wouldn't care why he acted that way or what kind of problem he had, I just plain wouldn't want to deal with it. And I wouldn't give him another chance, either.

I agree with this too. We could tie ourselves in knots over this for days trying to guess his motivations but it comes down to one thing for me; I, personally, don't like it when others comment on what I eat, verbally or non-verbally. I, personally, find it rude and abrasive and inappropriate. I, personally, would not go on another date with a guy who behaved like this.

If the OP's friend chooses to do so that is up to her. But if for some reason I decided to see this guy again I would probably order a really large meal plus dessert and watch his face. That's just me, though.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Honeypickle on September 13, 2012, 03:32:47 AM
I agree with the above posters - who cares WHY? He sounds awful and I'm sure the OP's friend could meet someone much nicer. To have this much angst about someone's behavour after a FIRST date is just more trouble than its worth. Move on OP's Friend - you deserve better!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? (Sorry! Epic Length!)
Post by: JonGirl on September 13, 2012, 04:25:31 AM
Ok yes I know that.  But I mean not a control issue as in controlling her in a emotionally or physically abusive way, but more about his own sense of control over himself.  I think the popcorn issue was about him and his relationship to food going into his body more then about the food that goes into other people's body's.  I think in this case it manifested itself against her food intake simply due to a variety of factors like being around the food unexpectedly, being asked to hold the food, and knowing he was going to be sitting next to someone who planed to [seemingly mindlessly] eat for 2 hours.

I think I might just be having a hard time buying this theory because as someone with a lot of disordered-eating thoughts and behaviors, it NEVER occurs to me to think about someone else's eating. I'm way too busy (overly, ridiculously busy) policing my own food, and/or silently fretting about what other people MIGHT be thinking about what I am eating.


This is soooo me.
When I was younger, I went out with a guy who made comments about my body and how it looks like pears.  :(
I have all sorts of issues now and I'm a lot older now. This girl needs to get the hell away from this guy. Like yesterday.  >:(
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Cat-Fu on September 13, 2012, 12:48:18 PM
I suppose it would be inappropriate to get popcorn ready in anticipation of an update after the date tomorrow? I promise I won't hoard it.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 13, 2012, 01:33:26 PM
This whole thread has me craving popcorn!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: whatsanenigma on September 13, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
Another problem I have with the guy is that he (apparently) didn't think to clean up after himself at the theater.  Just leaving trash on the floor is a big no-no to me.

I wouldn't want to go out with him again.

I was thinking about this aspect myself.

Just that all by itself, the "just leave it" when she went to pick up the bag, might very well mean that he has the attitude of "they have people to do that" and that if you do it you're lowering yourself somehow.  I have certainly known people like that in my own life, even those who wouldn't have done any of the other popcorn-related weirdness.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: AfleetAlex on September 13, 2012, 03:17:37 PM
If any is left over after my movie I take it home and eat it later. No use wasting perfectly good movie popcorn!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Allyson on September 13, 2012, 10:19:24 PM
I really don't think I could've restrained myself from turning to him and saying, "What is wrong with you?" or similar! Whatever the reason behind it, and any of those suggested seem plausible, his behaviour was really odd and pretty rude. The mood switches especiallly would have me on edge.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Danika on September 14, 2012, 12:20:12 AM
I think the "Leave it!" comment would have sealed the deal for me. Everything else, I could have said "Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe we miscommunicated." The "Leave it" tells me he's controlling.

Just theories I've thought of:

Maybe he just likes to be mean and see how much he can push a girl around. If she puts up with it, he wants to keep dating her. It could have had nothing to do with food.

Or maybe he does think fake buttered popcorn is unhealthy or fattening.

I have a question. Was the sodapop full sugar or diet? If it was diet, it explains why he handed it back. He controls his girlfriends and allows them to consume things that will keep them thin, only.

I'm interested in in an update. I couldn't go out with someone like this again because if he made one more controlling action keeping me from food that I planned to eat, I'd wonder for weeks and months if I were too fat and if the whole world saw me that way.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: ydpubs on September 14, 2012, 01:44:23 AM
I would NOT give that guy another chance.

The nanosecond he kept my property that I PAID for away from me, that would have been it. I would have said straight out: What is your deal? You didn't want any, I did, I BOUGHT it, give me MY popcorn. I find it very peculiar that you said you didn't want any, yet I saw you horking it down like it was going to be banned tomorrow, yet give me attitude because I dared to buy it just because you claimed you didn't want any.

It would never have gotten to the point where he said: Just leave it, because depending on what his response was to giving me my popcorn, you better bet I'd be leaving something. I would be leaving him right then there for being obnoxious and controlling to me.

I don't care if he has issues or a lifetime subscription, I ain't signing up for it, I got enough of my own. Life is to short to walk on eggshells around Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Raintree on September 14, 2012, 03:37:24 AM
I would be inclined to go out with him again in the name of research, just to see what he does at an outdoor cafe when the OP orders a big meal for herself.

Yes, research only! For the benefit of e-hellions. But one more sign of behaviour like that and he's out!! And yes, ask him what was up with the popcorn.

As I was reading the OP, my thought was "I'd never go out with him again." However, I do understand what it's like to be fooled by the quick switch back to Nice Guy. I had one of those; it didn't turn out well. The Nice Guy I dated really did seem nice for a few weeks and suddenly he had an outburst over nothing, that took me by surprise. Then he was back to apologetic Nice Guy. This became an increasingly frequent pattern. And yes, he frequently commented on my food intake or told me I shouldn't eat certain things. I was fit and trim at the time, as if that should make any difference. I don't know why I put up with him so long but the last time I saw him, I was at his place about to tell him I was done with him, when a girl I didn't know knocked on the door. He invited her in and they sat and chatted about people I didn't know for ages, ignoring me while I sat there twiddling my thumbs getting tired and wishing she'd leave so I could complete my breakup. (Also very rude behaviour on his part, but I believe he was trying to make me jealous). I finally got up to leave, and broke up with him later by phone.

Sorry for the digression. But he really did have food issues, ie issues about what *I* ate. I'd be telling him a story that might involve, "I went to the grocery store to buy ice cream, and......" (meaning to continue with an interesting story about buying ice cream) and he wouldn't even let me finish my story without interrupting, "If you buy that stuff you're going to get SO FAT."

Seems it's not all that uncommon for control-freaky guys to use food to control.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 14, 2012, 05:35:02 AM
I would NOT give that guy another chance.

The nanosecond he kept my property that I PAID for away from me, that would have been it. I would have said straight out: What is your deal? You didn't want any, I did, I BOUGHT it, give me MY popcorn. I find it very peculiar that you said you didn't want any, yet I saw you horking it down like it was going to be banned tomorrow, yet give me attitude because I dared to buy it just because you claimed you didn't want any.

It would never have gotten to the point where he said: Just leave it, because depending on what his response was to giving me my popcorn, you better bet I'd be leaving something. I would be leaving him right then there for being obnoxious and controlling to me.

I don't care if he has issues or a lifetime subscription, I ain't signing up for it, I got enough of my own. Life is to short to walk on eggshells around Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde.

POD.  The "Leave it" would really bug me. No, dude, I paid for that, I'm not leaving it, I'm taking it home so I can eat the rest of it...without you.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: squashedfrog on September 14, 2012, 06:50:55 AM
OP here,

Thanks again for so many replies.  Its definitely echoed my thoughts on the fact this guy is hookey.

Spoke to friend again and showed her the many responses.  She is happy to clarify a few things.

1.  Seeing my OP, with the situation written out so plainly, she says its a lot more obvious that he was being odd, and it wasn't just her being over sensitive.  Its thrown her rather than worried her.

2. The drink was a medium diet coke, they don't do refills in British cinemas as far as we are aware.

3. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.  To all those people that said you SHOULD have said this, yup she knows that now. Friend is back on the dating game after a long time, and has in the past been accused of being a bit too forward and pushy - (this was a works criticism) and with this in the back of her mind she says it was a first date and she wanted to make a good impression, so was more reserved than perhaps usual. By the third incident, she was indeed thinking "that the heck?".

4. The "Leave it" bit.  I think this was the bit that threw her the most.  She says he had already stepped out of the seat and was putting his coat on in the aisle.  She was stood in front of her seat still, and then turned her back to him to pick up the popcorn, when she heard him say in an exasperated voice (not bellowing as has been suggested) "Just leeave it!" in a hurried sighing type way.  She said it sounded like the way you might address a child!

At this point she said she is bit shocked,  but when she turned BACK around to face him, his face and demeanor, friendly and smiling at her was totally different, like he hadn't said anything at all (she knew it MUST have been him, but it threw her enough to not to say "wait what the heck did you just say to me, Chuckles????").  She said she was thinking it, but it made her second guess herself just long enough for it to then feel weird walking out to the cars to say anything.  By then, it was pretty late, she had work in the morning and just wanted to get home rather than stand in a car park and discuss it, and then the next day he was continuing with the funny, fun happy guy routine again.

If anything, its left her confused about the whole thing, as she was pretty darn sure he was being an oddball, but then his instant demeanor would change to happy, funny guy again.

Now she is one tough gal though and hasn't taken any of this to heart, She is going to go tonight after the gym for a planned chickeny dinner and a few drinks, she has a get out clause (she can call me or her housemate if there's a problem - though I doubt she won't be able to handle herself). 

As this incident has also become a bit of a joke to us all too, I dont think she is taking the thought of them dating full term seriously since the popcorn incident last week, and in her words, although he is really funny on line, she is full on wary of this guy and waaay suspicious.  She said she is almost going with a morbid curiously to see if he pulls anything again, especially as she is looking forward to eating in front of him tonight, and she says she is going to order an extra portion of something  to see what he does :).   I think when they are in the middle of a Nandos she is not going to be worried about keeping quiet this time.    Gah I wanna be a fly on the wall for this one!!  ;D

I will update you guys when I know anything :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: esteban on September 14, 2012, 07:16:26 AM
I know I am late to the party, but here is my thought....RUN :)

I lost a friend to actions similar to this.  On his second date with a girl she reached into his pockets took out his cigarettes and said "I don't loike people smoking around me."  Crushed them and threw them away.  My response would have been to leave her where they were, his was to continue dating her.  She pulled a ton of other control games like that, even worse after he married her.  When those games started to effect my wife (she would RSVP to things and then call sick at the last moment so much it became a joke) when she pulled a stunt for a party that was planned entirely for her we cut them off.  Oddly enough he hasn't ever tried to contact any of our group of friends since then, she decided he needed to make new friends so thats what he did.

Just makes me sad.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: JenJay on September 14, 2012, 08:02:00 AM
So did she leave it or pick it up and keep it? I'm wondering if he was all happy and smiles again because she did as commanded or because he realized he'd been ridiculous/possibly come off like a jerk and was attempting to smooth it over.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Sophia on September 14, 2012, 08:14:59 AM
I remember going back into the dating pool after dating Mistake for many years.  I so wanted it to work out that I told myself and him that I felt a connection.  I didn't. 
I think there might have been a little of that going on for the OP's friend. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: squashedfrog on September 14, 2012, 08:23:33 AM
oops! missed that one, No she didn't pick up the popcorn!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: hobish on September 14, 2012, 08:46:38 AM

Thanks for the update. I think i like your friend :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: fluffy on September 14, 2012, 09:00:26 AM
If any is left over after my movie I take it home and eat it later. No use wasting perfectly good movie popcorn!

I don't think I've ever had popcorn leftover after a movie.  :P

This guy sounds like trouble. I appreciate your friend satisfying our curiosity with a second date. But I don't know if I'd go on a third one.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: JenJay on September 14, 2012, 09:38:57 AM
oops! missed that one, No she didn't pick up the popcorn!

That's unfortunate. I wish we could know how he would've reacted to being "defied". Maybe tonight we'll get to find out.  ;)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Ms_Cellany on September 14, 2012, 09:53:19 AM
I think she should order an appetizer of cheese fries.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Yvaine on September 14, 2012, 09:59:03 AM
I think she should order an appetizer of cheese fries.

Chili cheese fries!  >:D
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Jones on September 14, 2012, 10:03:46 AM
I think she should order an appetizer of cheese fries.

Chili cheese fries!  >:D

With a side of bacon wrapped jalapeno poppers.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Yvaine on September 14, 2012, 10:14:24 AM
I think she should order an appetizer of cheese fries.

Chili cheese fries!  >:D

With a side of bacon wrapped jalapeno poppers.

With ranch to dip them in.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 14, 2012, 10:32:34 AM
Y'all are making me hungry!

If the restaurant offers them, as I dunno if these are available in Britain, but I love me some loaded potato skins! :)  Or some warm bread paired up with nummy spinach and artichoke dip.

Okay, now I'm making myself hungry!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: nalapuppy on September 14, 2012, 10:38:29 AM
I'm really craving movie theater popcorn now!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Danika on September 14, 2012, 12:04:51 PM
...she is looking forward to eating in front of him tonight, and she says she is going to order an extra portion of something  to see what he does :).   I think when they are in the middle of a Nandos she is not going to be worried about keeping quiet this time.    Gah I wanna be a fly on the wall for this one!!  ;D

I think you need to show up at Nandos with your video camera and sit a few tables away. For the safety of your friend and for the study of Science/Psychology. And to provide us with full details.  ;)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: cicero on September 14, 2012, 12:24:48 PM


If anything, its left her confused about the whole thing, as she was pretty darn sure he was being an oddball, but then his instant demeanor would change to happy, funny guy again.



tell her that she should listen to her inner gut.

and also - having been in abusive relationships, i can relate to what she is thinking but it's still very dysfunctional. it seems from what you wrote that "he is an oddball who can change his demeanor when he wants", and not "he is a really great guy who acts weird about movie popcorn". it's that kind of thinking that allows abused women to stay with their abusers. the whole "but he's really a great guy" syndrome
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: gadget--gal on September 14, 2012, 12:46:18 PM
they don't do refills in British cinemas as far as we are aware.



Some do :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: ScubaGirl on September 14, 2012, 03:57:34 PM

Thanks for the update. I think i like your friend :)

POD
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: greencat on September 14, 2012, 05:43:50 PM
On a first date, I tend to not say anything about behaviors I find extremely off-putting and red-flag waving like this - but I also do not go on a second date with the guy. 

The popcorn-scarfing and then preventing her from eating it speaks to me of an impulse control problem on his part, coupled with a tendency to project that problem onto others.

The three lessons I've learned related to dating and food:
Men who are in any way judgmental about what or how you eat are not good partners.
Having vastly different tastes in food can be a major source of conflict in a relationship - because it's an argument and/or resentment waiting to happen three or more times a day.
Even fairly minor mental issues related to food are generally a red flag for serious personality problems.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Danika on September 14, 2012, 07:34:39 PM
^^^ I agree with greencat

But beyond that, if someone is controlling and gatekeeping about what another person puts into their body, then they do not respect boundaries. In addition to telling you what to eat, they will scrutinize your clothing, your hair, your friends, your activities, how loud you breathe when you're congested, how often you cough if you have a cold, how you arrange your CDs and all kinds of things. Who wants to be in a relationship like that?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: cjeanies on September 14, 2012, 10:27:16 PM
...she is looking forward to eating in front of him tonight, and she says she is going to order an extra portion of something  to see what he does :).   I think when they are in the middle of a Nandos she is not going to be worried about keeping quiet this time.    Gah I wanna be a fly on the wall for this one!!  ;D

I think you need to show up at Nandos with your video camera and sit a few tables away. For the safety of your friend and for the study of Science/Psychology. And to provide us with full details.  ;)

I was just thinking this too!  Only in the name of research should she go out with him again and you and another friend need to observe. 

I think that men who are abusive are way better at hiding it on a first date.  And they usually can hide it for a long time.  It's how they end up with girlfriends and wives.  They don't start that stuff until the woman is sure she is with a nice guy.

I'm surprised there are people who aren't apalled with his behavior.  At the very least he is incredibly rude and clueless.  Heck,  I don't think I can even give him clueless, come to think of it, because he seemed consciously intent on breaking any reasonable social norms.  Creepy.

About the only innocent explanation I can come up with is that the popcorn was poisened, he was immune to it, and he could't tell her it was poisened because then the earth would implode. 

I'm looking forward to an update.
Abou
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Danika on September 14, 2012, 11:54:48 PM
I think that men who are abusive are way better at hiding it on a first date.  And they usually can hide it for a long time.  It's how they end up with girlfriends and wives.  They don't start that stuff until the woman is sure she is with a nice guy.

When I was single and in the dating world, I found that once I was really hooked on a guy and finally convinced that he was great, that's when his true colors would show because he would figure I was hooked and then he could treat me however he wanted. Unfortunately, I dated a lot of emotionally abusive men. And I finally figured out a strategy that brought out their true colors sooner so I didn't waste months dating someone who ended up being a jerk. I would fake that I was way more into him than I really was, just to see what his true colors were.

About the only innocent explanation I can come up with is that the popcorn was poisened, he was immune to it, and he could't tell her it was poisened because then the earth would implode. 

When I read that he said "Leave it" I remembered some obscure `80s movie called Diner with Kevin Bacon. There's an inappropriate scene in the movie where on a date a guy puts something in the popcorn which is gross. I won't ruin it with details. But as I read the OP, I joked with myself that OP's friend's date ended up tainting the popcorn somehow and that's why he didn't want her to have it. I really doubt it, but it made me think of the movie.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: jedikaiti on September 15, 2012, 12:00:39 AM
When I read that he said "Leave it" I remembered some obscure `80s movie called Diner with Kevin Bacon. There's an inappropriate scene in the movie where on a date a guy puts something in the popcorn which is gross. I won't ruin it with details. But as I read the OP, I joked with myself that OP's friend's date ended up tainting the popcorn somehow and that's why he didn't want her to have it. I really doubt it, but it made me think of the movie.

I am so glad I am not the only one who thought of that scene.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Sophia on September 15, 2012, 07:27:12 AM
... so I didn't waste months dating someone who ended up being a jerk. I would fake that I was way more into him than I really was, just to see what his true colors were...

I stumbled on a technique similar.  While in college, I met a guy at a friend's party.  He seemed really great.  I think we were going to talk on the back porch when my heel caught on a loose thread in the carpet and I tripped a little.  Someone watching would have thought I was very drunk.  I didn't actually fall, but while I was catching myself I happened to glimpse his face.  His face had this expression of "Score!  She is so drunk, she won't be able to say No."  It really upset me.  After that if I met a guy anywhere drinking was happening, I would engineer a little trip and look at his face.  Every other guy after that had a disappointed expression, and turned out to be nice, normal guys. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Bethalize on September 15, 2012, 08:27:34 AM


If anything, its left her confused about the whole thing, as she was pretty darn sure he was being an oddball, but then his instant demeanor would change to happy, funny guy again.



tell her that she should listen to her inner gut.

and also - having been in abusive relationships, i can relate to what she is thinking but it's still very dysfunctional. it seems from what you wrote that "he is an oddball who can change his demeanor when he wants", and not "he is a really great guy who acts weird about movie popcorn". it's that kind of thinking that allows abused women to stay with their abusers. the whole "but he's really a great guy" syndrome

Applause for Cicero!

This post encapsulates what I think about so many of the times women I know started abusive relationships. I think that certain behaviours are unacceptable and if someone will do X then Y and Z are likely to follow and I won't give him the chance. They think "but he's a really great guy" and ignore the first incident and allow the second incident and cope with the third and manage the fourth and explain away the fifth and justify the sixth and blame themselves for the seventh and  on and on and on. I wish that the messages women internalised weren't  so much about "forgive everything" but were more about "If a person does a bad thing it shows you the kind of person they are."
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Emmy on September 15, 2012, 12:23:59 PM
The 'nice' part of me is tempted to say give him another chance.  However, being older, more experienced, and a little bit jaded, my real advice would be to tell her to run.  First dates are when people are supposed to show you their best side.  When people show hints of a undesirable personality trait on the first few dates, this trait tends to come out more and more as the person gets comfortable with you.  This is true even if the person was otherwise nice, funny, and otherwise enjoyable.  Even if this guy is really nice, funny, and charming, it sounds as if being controlling is also a part of his personality.  The 'good' stuff does not negate the controlling.  If I cook an omelet with ten good eggs and one bad one, the omelet will still be bad.  In my experience, I find my first impression of situations like this are usually correct.  OP should go with her gut.

Although the popcorn itself is a small thing, the fact he wouldn't give the OP her popcorn during the movie and scolded her when she tried to take it is worrisome, especially on a first date.  If he felt comfortable behaving like that with somebody he barely knows and supposedly wanted to impress, how will he act when he gets more comfortable with somebody?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: Iris on September 15, 2012, 04:27:55 PM
When I read that he said "Leave it" I remembered some obscure `80s movie called Diner with Kevin Bacon. There's an inappropriate scene in the movie where on a date a guy puts something in the popcorn which is gross. I won't ruin it with details. But as I read the OP, I joked with myself that OP's friend's date ended up tainting the popcorn somehow and that's why he didn't want her to have it. I really doubt it, but it made me think of the movie.

I am so glad I am not the only one who thought of that scene.

I don't know that movie as such, but if the scene you describe is what I think it is, then there are three naughty minded people on Ehell at least...
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: weeblewobble on September 15, 2012, 07:42:06 PM
Today I went to the movies with a man who held popcorn I purchased out of my reach, and griped at me when I took some... he's four. 

I was only able to wrestle control of the tub when I threatened the safety of his Red Vines.


The whole time we were watching Finding Nemo, I thought of this thread.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on September 15, 2012, 07:47:31 PM
... so I didn't waste months dating someone who ended up being a jerk. I would fake that I was way more into him than I really was, just to see what his true colors were...

I stumbled on a technique similar.  While in college, I met a guy at a friend's party.  He seemed really great.  I think we were going to talk on the back porch when my heel caught on a loose thread in the carpet and I tripped a little.  Someone watching would have thought I was very drunk.  I didn't actually fall, but while I was catching myself I happened to glimpse his face.  His face had this expression of "Score!  She is so drunk, she won't be able to say No."  It really upset me.  After that if I met a guy anywhere drinking was happening, I would engineer a little trip and look at his face.  Every other guy after that had a disappointed expression, and turned out to be nice, normal guys.

These are so insightful.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Raintree on September 15, 2012, 11:27:11 PM
I keep checking to find out what happened on the second date. It's Saturday now. OP????? :D
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Snooks on September 16, 2012, 06:05:25 AM
I hope she made the most of the bottomless frozen yoghurt at Nandos.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Venus193 on September 16, 2012, 09:45:18 AM
I'm coming late to this party, but my gut says this guy is a control freak with the potential to become seriously abusive.

Fly -- do not run -- away.

Any man who takes away food you purchased and begrudges you the right to eat it has more issues than National Geographic.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Danika on September 16, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
I went to a movie last night and thought of OP's friend as I ate my very buttery popcorn. I'm anxiously awaiting an update.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: sourwolf on September 16, 2012, 03:12:22 PM
I'm coming late to this party, but my gut says this guy is a control freak with the potential to become seriously abusive.

Fly -- do not run -- away.

Any man who takes away food you purchased and begrudges you the right to eat it has more issues than National Geographic.

I think this is a bit of a stretch.  Is the guy a jerk? Definitely seems like it. Would I have accepted a second date? Not a chance.  But it seems overreactive to arm chair diagnos this guy as a potential abuser based just on the posts we have gotten.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: greencat on September 16, 2012, 03:41:36 PM
I'm coming late to this party, but my gut says this guy is a control freak with the potential to become seriously abusive.

Fly -- do not run -- away.

Any man who takes away food you purchased and begrudges you the right to eat it has more issues than National Geographic.

I think this is a bit of a stretch.  Is the guy a jerk? Definitely seems like it. Would I have accepted a second date? Not a chance.  But it seems overreactive to arm chair diagnos this guy as a potential abuser based just on the posts we have gotten.

I have been abused in the past, by more than one man, in more than one way, and this guy is a potential abuser.
1)  Impulse control problems - the scarfing of the popcorn that wasn't his and that he said he didn't want.
2)  He already acted to control her - on the FIRST date, the one where people are usually trying their hardest to act like normal members of society.
3) Besides the overt keep-away thing with the popcorn, the use of social cues (the frowning and weird looks) in order to steer her behavior in the way he finds acceptable are signs of someone who is seriously emotionally manipulative.  That is, what she was doing was perfectly normal, but he reacted to it as though it was socially undesirable behavior, like picking your nose in public, to encourage her to act how he wanted.  Coupled with the quick switch back and forth to the happy-face man, he's got so many "this guy is potentially emotionally abusive" alarms going off he might as well wear a T-shirt.

"Potential abuser" isn't an armchair diagnosis - it's not an illness.  It's not a disease.  It's a set of behaviors that this guy evidenced.  In fact, here's Dear Abby's list of behaviors of abusers: http://www.mywesttexas.com/news/opinion/columns/dear_abby/article_346002db-0f45-576c-8739-84c73eb8570e.html (http://www.mywesttexas.com/news/opinion/columns/dear_abby/article_346002db-0f45-576c-8739-84c73eb8570e.html).   This guy hit #3 and to some degree #13 (mood swings, although not to the extreme of violence) on the very first date.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Really? on September 16, 2012, 05:57:24 PM
Hi

I also am waiting to read what happened. Very interested in an update.

Onlyme
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: sparksals on September 16, 2012, 08:31:01 PM
I agree this guy has great potential to be an abuser.  Such strange and controlling behaviour on a first date, I can only imagine what would happen when he feels he has her in is power and control. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: still in va on September 16, 2012, 08:43:32 PM
I agree this guy has great potential to be an abuser.  Such strange and controlling behaviour on a first date, I can only imagine what would happen when he feels he has her in is power and control.

absolutely.  i'm not going straight to abuser.  not all controlling individuals are necessarily abusers.

i do wonder if there would have been a second date, from his standpoint, if frog's friend had actually picked up her popcorn and taken it home, after he told her to leave it.  that would have been an indication to him that she would not listen, and might not be susceptible to "control". 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Nora on September 17, 2012, 04:46:13 AM
I do hope she eats in front of him. If he flips: controlling nutcase. If he doesn't: maybe just the worlds most awkward man.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Morticia on September 17, 2012, 07:47:56 AM
I keep thinking he sneezed on the popcorn, but didn't have the guts to admit it.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: squashedfrog on September 17, 2012, 08:33:15 AM
Update is coming guys, just need to write up our convo from the Friday night  Quick pre amble - utterly impressed with friend.  The date was cut short, as she called me from her house in the process of her second gin and tonic with her housemate.   And no, she won’t be seeing him again! As soon as I get a chance I will upload the full story.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Twik on September 17, 2012, 08:53:22 AM
Ooooh! Now I'm getting popcorn - sounds good!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Yvaine on September 17, 2012, 09:02:58 AM
I keep thinking he sneezed on the popcorn, but didn't have the guts to admit it.

Oh, now that would be a funny twist. Sounds like a Seinfeld episode.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: Cz. Burrito on September 17, 2012, 09:30:23 AM
Ooooh! Now I'm getting popcorn - sounds good!

Oh boy!  I'm stealing your bucket of popcorn and stuffing handfuls of it in my mouth when you're not looking.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: squashedfrog on September 17, 2012, 09:36:23 AM
UPDATE: THIS IS VERY LONG SORRY.  As told to me over G&T.

So, as you know, the plan was she would go to the gym, meet him in Nandos then go for a few drinks at one of the local pubs.  She arrives, everything friendly, chit chat, get seated, and look through menus. 

He tells her he will buy dinner as he asked her out, and proceeds to suggest that they have a type of Nandos meal, with one side order each.  Friend says actually she is back from the gym and is starving so fancies a bit more, especially before the pub, and was looking at the meal with two sides as she fancies garlic bread with it.  She says she is happy to pay for hers. 

So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely used!)

 She says he is smiling when he says this she give a big smile back. She says something like I go to the gym so I can eat what I want, end of discussion I’ll buy us dinner and you can get the first round in the pub?”   He protests and says perhaps they can share another side or something, she says nope its all good, smiles and hops up to pays for both (she said she swears she was almost doing this to get his reaction!).

When she gets back to the table apparently he is all smiles again.  He makes conversation and at one point asks her about her gym as he is looking for one.  She tells him a bit about it and says she is with a personal trainer (PT) there.  He asks her if she runs.  She says she doesn’t (knee injury and surgery) and is with the PT to build fitness back up safely.  He then tells her that running is the quickest way to burn fat and calories and is the best form of exercise in the gym (something like as you only get a short time in the gym it maximises your workout).

She repeats about the knee injury, and says she’s fine with the PT schedule.  He then interrupts with “well, any he can’t be a good PT for the money as he doesn’t sound like he’s pushing you and that’s what they are supposed to do, he SHOULD be telling you about upping your game and getting you running”.

They are in the middle of food at this point and she says it was a fork down moment, but she didn’t snap and was chuffed she stayed calm. She told him that she really didn’t think that was his concern, as she had already said she was happy with both her professional PT as it was her money to spend, as she was with her choice of food. 

She also said that she noticed he seemed to have a preoccupation with what she was eating on both occasions they had met up and that he needed to get over it if they were to remain friends.  (I personally like the way she slipped friends in the there, as she said he’d already kicked himself off of the dating table by then!)

It this point she said she thinks he started to back peddle a bit, and apologized if she misinterpreted his advice (NB this to me is NOT an apology!).  She said that they finished dinner in an awkward way and then she made the excuse that she was tired and needed to head home.   She reckons he seemed bummed, but was polite and they said goodbye.

She got home, he calls her from the pub and apologized again, and admitted that he could be ‘funny’ about things like food, that his last girlfriend had put on 4 stone in the 6 years they had been together and he hated watching her do that to herself and that she never listened to him, and that he” felt helpless watching her do it to herself”. 

Here’s the kicker, he then tells friend that as it’s only been 3 months since they split up, its still raw in his mind.  As friend and he have been talking for 5 weeks, and he had repeatedly previously told her he had been using dating sites for 5-6 months...well, do the maths!

She I think was more polite than I would have been, but saw her chance to spring herself from the situation.  She told him she didn’t think he was completely over his ex, and that they shouldn’t really see each other again and wished him the best.  She then cracked open the gin with housemate and called me later!

So yep, bullet dodged we reckon.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 17, 2012, 09:44:16 AM
Yup, obsessed with women's weight and a total donkey's backside. Bullet dodged and good for your friend and her spine!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: squashedfrog on September 17, 2012, 09:51:10 AM
I'm amazed he didn't end up wearing dinner to be honest, she has been very reserved over this one!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Cz. Burrito on September 17, 2012, 09:52:33 AM
Thank her for us for providing the entertainment.  Glad he showed his hind end this early on and saved her the trouble. 

I was married to this guy, and, believe me, it's no fun.  Highlights include being sneered at after I finish 35 minutes on the elliptical with an imploring "is that all you're going to do?"
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Twik on September 17, 2012, 10:00:26 AM
Anyone for bets on how he's currently telling his buddies about the horrible girl who dumped him after only two dates? And why no women appreciate nice guys these days?

I wonder if his weight-gaining girlfriend is just a story, or whether he did have one, but his constant hectoring drove her to overeat just out of desire to prove he couldn't control her?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Cz. Burrito on September 17, 2012, 10:07:29 AM
I wonder if his weight-gaining girlfriend is just a story, or whether he did have one, but his constant hectoring drove her to overeat just out of desire to prove he couldn't control her?

I'd put money on the latter.  I definitely gained weight due to my food/exercise-nagging ex.  He was also, interestingly enough, obsessed with running and thought me a failure for not doing it (it makes my ankles stabby).
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: squashedfrog on September 17, 2012, 10:09:07 AM
I wondered that to be honest.   I personally wouldn't trust the guy as far as I could throw him, but as she mentioned, its not her problem anymore.   I don't think he's contacted her since which is good news.  Makes you wonder if the ex actually was that weight, or just in his eyes.  They are both shut of him in my opinion!

The dates on when he split up with her compared to how on he's been on the sites though, its proof he's lying about something either way!  Made me wonder why he stayed so long communicating on-line but then I reckon I over-think things!

I was worried he might turn up at her gym, but she said its expensive and she actually gets a whoppingly stupid discount through her work, so she doesn't think he'd be able to go there.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Cz. Burrito on September 17, 2012, 10:11:05 AM
I was worried he might turn up at her gym, but she said its expensive and she actually gets a whoppingly stupid discount through her work, so she doesn't think he'd be able to go there.

Good. I was worried about that, too. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 17, 2012, 10:11:52 AM
I wonder if his weight-gaining girlfriend is just a story, or whether he did have one, but his constant hectoring drove her to overeat just out of desire to prove he couldn't control her?

I'd put money on the latter.  I definitely gained weight due to my food/exercise-nagging ex.  He was also, interestingly enough, obsessed with running and thought me a failure for not doing it (it makes my ankles stabby).

Obsession with running in particular is really common in this type of jerk. I used to work with a guy who would nag another co-worker about how she shouldn't bicycle to work, she should run instead because it was "better exercise." She kept trying to explain that the goal of biking to work wasn't "to maximize the amount of exercise she was getting" but "to have a pleasant bike ride to work," and running was less enjoyable for her, so it wouldn't achieve that goal. The woman was in great shape, too, though that doesn't even matter to this variety of mansplainer.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: SuperMartianRobotGirl on September 17, 2012, 10:13:09 AM
I am so not surprised by this update. I bet a lot of us have had run-ins with men who would like to control our food intake. Bad news, and a big red flag you can see early in dates.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on September 17, 2012, 10:14:34 AM
Yep, there certainly do seem to be a lot of "No Fat Chicks" types about. 

They seem to keep getting dumped!   ;)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 17, 2012, 10:16:34 AM
Yep, there certainly do seem to be a lot of "No Fat Chicks" types about. 

They seem to keep getting dumped!   ;)

They fail to realize they're running off the Fat Chicks and the Skinny Chicks alike, with their obnoxiousness!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: squashedfrog on September 17, 2012, 10:18:10 AM
what surprised me is that he tried it on so early.  I thought these types tried to wear girls down first.  I wonder if he was in that relationship so long before he thought it would be that easy. 

But again, thats me over thinking its one of those things you'll never know.  Can't pop these people in a petri dish and poke 'em with a scalpel to know how they work alas.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: SuperMartianRobotGirl on September 17, 2012, 10:21:49 AM
I think they do it from the start. When I was dating, it would always be guys I met running, or at the gym, and I assume that's because they wanted thin women they could assume would stay thin. Then if you'd do anything that might someday cause a pound to be gained, they'd flip out. Including and maybe especially on the first date, because they need to make sure you're obsessive enough about your weight.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 17, 2012, 10:25:23 AM
I think they do it from the start. When I was dating, it would always be guys I met running, or at the gym, and I assume that's because they wanted thin women they could assume would stay thin. Then if you'd do anything that might someday cause a pound to be gained, they'd flip out. Including and maybe especially on the first date, because they need to make sure you're obsessive enough about your weight.

It's just a sad way to live (in addition to the jerky way they go about it), and a way to set oneself up for a whole life of disappointing serial monogamy as they continue to chase the shiny. Not wanting to start a debate about the value of exercise in general--it's just this idea that you can get into a long-term relationship and you can somehow micromanage the person into never changing. Even if they stay exactly the same weight forever and ever, they will age. They might develop health problems. They will change emotionally/mentally. And so will the person wanting to do the controlling. It's just part of being human.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: siamesecat2965 on September 17, 2012, 10:34:04 AM
What a butthead! OP, I'm glad your friend stood up to him, and told him there would not BE any more dates!  I wouldn't put up with his baloney either.  While I'm fluffy and out of shape, running is something I simply cannot do, due to my knees being completely shot.  So that and a lot of other exercises are out of the question.  yet in the past, I've worked with PT's who were able to work around MY limitations, and give me other stuff to do. 

And anyone who dares to question MY food consumption will have an issue.  Even if I look like I could miss a whole bunch of meals! He was way too controlling, and I'm not surprised he's single!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: greencat on September 17, 2012, 10:39:42 AM
I'm actually kind of amazed that your friend was still trying to be "nice" and told him the little white lie about him not being over his ex - instead of just telling him he's a controlling jerk.  She's left herself open for a message six months from now "I think I'm over my ex - can we try again?"

And for those who've mostly met this kind while running or at the gym - they come in another flavor - the overweight slovenly type who thinks he should be dating a supermodel.  I had gone from 30 pounds underweight to right in the middle of my ideal weight range, while my ex had gone from 30 overweight to double his recommended weight.  He had the audacity to comment on my weight gain!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Twik on September 17, 2012, 10:40:41 AM
It's just a sad way to live (in addition to the jerky way they go about it), and a way to set oneself up for a whole life of disappointing serial monogamy as they continue to chase the shiny. Not wanting to start a debate about the value of exercise in general--it's just this idea that you can get into a long-term relationship and you can somehow micromanage the person into never changing. Even if they stay exactly the same weight forever and ever, they will age. They might develop health problems. They will change emotionally/mentally. And so will the person wanting to do the controlling. It's just part of being human.

Well, I think the thing is, to these people, a partner is an accessory. Their ego demands that they have the brightest, newest, thinnest model - kind of like a cell phone ;). The idea that their partner might become less physically perfect threatens their own self-image. They live in fear of being "that guy with the dog of a girlfriend".  The girl isn't as important as their friends' view of them as "winners" in the competition for Hot Partner.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Auntie Mame on September 17, 2012, 10:42:21 AM
Anyone for bets on how he's currently telling his buddies about the horrible girl who dumped him after only two dates? And why no women appreciate nice guys these days?

I wonder if his weight-gaining girlfriend is just a story, or whether he did have one, but his constant hectoring drove her to overeat just out of desire to prove he couldn't control her?

snort, I'm not taking that bet.  Probably can I hear is whinging all the way on the other side of the pond.

OP, If I was in your friend's shoes, I would probably go on the second date as well, just for the train wrecky goodness factor.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 17, 2012, 10:44:36 AM
I'm actually kind of amazed that your friend was still trying to be "nice" and told him the little white lie about him not being over his ex - instead of just telling him he's a controlling jerk.  She's left herself open for a message six months from now "I think I'm over my ex - can we try again?"

It's not even really a lie though--I don't know if he's over her in the sense of still loving her, but he's obviously not over her in the sense of carrying his issues with her into the next potential relationship. He's still reacting to things the OP's friend does as if it was his ex doing them (gives you an idea of how he treated her!). It's like if a guy was cheated on by an ex and then reacted by hacking his next girlfriend's email to make sure she was faithful.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Amava on September 17, 2012, 10:57:17 AM
Thanks for the update.

Your friend handled that manipulative jerk very well. That could of course be because she consciously went into the date as an "experiment" and knew that you and the whole of e-hell were behind her.

I shudder to think what his manipulative food-and-exercise remarks could do to a girl who goes into the date with a different mindset, the "oh finally I have a date, I hope he'll like me, I hope all goes well!" feeling. His disapproving behaviour could be really jarring for someone who is insecure and vulnerable. He makes me angry.  >:(

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Bexx27 on September 17, 2012, 10:59:01 AM
It's just a sad way to live (in addition to the jerky way they go about it), and a way to set oneself up for a whole life of disappointing serial monogamy as they continue to chase the shiny. Not wanting to start a debate about the value of exercise in general--it's just this idea that you can get into a long-term relationship and you can somehow micromanage the person into never changing. Even if they stay exactly the same weight forever and ever, they will age. They might develop health problems. They will change emotionally/mentally. And so will the person wanting to do the controlling. It's just part of being human.

Well, I think the thing is, to these people, a partner is an accessory. Their ego demands that they have the brightest, newest, thinnest model - kind of like a cell phone ;). The idea that their partner might become less physically perfect threatens their own self-image. They live in fear of being "that guy with the dog of a girlfriend".  The girl isn't as important as their friends' view of them as "winners" in the competition for Hot Partner.

DH has a friend like this. He doesn't try to control his girlfriends' eating as far as I know (although he is always on a diet himself), but whenever he starts dating someone he must receive confirmation from his friends that the woman is "hot." He was very frustrated with DH when he started dating his current GF and his repeated attempts to get DH to agree that she was hot were met with generalities along the lines of "she's definitely your type." He's since paid for her to get breast implants.

One comment of his that has really stuck with me was when another friend mentioned that his wife was going to have a C-section and SuperficialGuy blurted out, "I would never let my wife do that! She'd have a disgusting scar!"

Way to prioritize, buddy.  ::)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 17, 2012, 11:04:36 AM
It's just a sad way to live (in addition to the jerky way they go about it), and a way to set oneself up for a whole life of disappointing serial monogamy as they continue to chase the shiny. Not wanting to start a debate about the value of exercise in general--it's just this idea that you can get into a long-term relationship and you can somehow micromanage the person into never changing. Even if they stay exactly the same weight forever and ever, they will age. They might develop health problems. They will change emotionally/mentally. And so will the person wanting to do the controlling. It's just part of being human.

Well, I think the thing is, to these people, a partner is an accessory. Their ego demands that they have the brightest, newest, thinnest model - kind of like a cell phone ;). The idea that their partner might become less physically perfect threatens their own self-image. They live in fear of being "that guy with the dog of a girlfriend".  The girl isn't as important as their friends' view of them as "winners" in the competition for Hot Partner.

DH has a friend like this. He doesn't try to control his girlfriends' eating as far as I know (although he is always on a diet himself), but whenever he starts dating someone he must receive confirmation from his friends that the woman is "hot." He was very frustrated with DH when he started dating his current GF and his repeated attempts to get DH to agree that she was hot were met with generalities along the lines of "she's definitely your type." He's since paid for her to get breast implants.

One comment of his that has really stuck with me was when another friend mentioned that his wife was going to have a C-section and SuperficialGuy blurted out, "I would never let my wife do that! She'd have a disgusting scar!"

Way to prioritize, buddy.  ::)

I imagine he'd never want her to get pregnant in the first place. She'd get larger while she was carrying the baby! And then she might have stretch marks afterward! The horror!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: barefoot_girl on September 17, 2012, 11:05:33 AM
Maybe he has bought into the whole 'Fifty Shades' nonsense, and thinks women really do like the idea of a hyper-controlling male. Doesn't the chap in that book make a big thing of controlling his girlfriend's food intake as well as everything else?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 17, 2012, 11:39:32 AM
Thanks for the update! OP, your friend did well! Good for her for cutting the date short when she verified his true colors. And good for her for just leaving and not trying to teach him or engage the crazy. I think someone like him will never see the light. No sense in wasting breath or effort to talk sense into him.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 17, 2012, 11:42:57 AM
I'm actually kind of amazed that your friend was still trying to be "nice" and told him the little white lie about him not being over his ex - instead of just telling him he's a controlling jerk.  She's left herself open for a message six months from now "I think I'm over my ex - can we try again?"

And for those who've mostly met this kind while running or at the gym - they come in another flavor - the overweight slovenly type who thinks he should be dating a supermodel.  I had gone from 30 pounds underweight to right in the middle of my ideal weight range, while my ex had gone from 30 overweight to double his recommended weight.  He had the audacity to comment on my weight gain!


I knew a sample of that type in college.  He was overweight and while his wife wasn't thin, she weighed a good deal less than he did.  My guess (and I'm terrible at guessing weights) was that she was around 130 at 5'5" while he was about 300-350 at 5'8.  He would comment on her being a bit chunky/chubby and once a mutual friend said "Dude, we'll get out the fat calipers and when your body fat percentage is less than hers, then you can talk, okay?"
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: rose red on September 17, 2012, 12:09:52 PM
Well, all the fat slobs on TV have hot wives (even after having three kids plus new twin babies).  That's the way the world is suppose to be.

Yeah, I almost broke something just writing that sentence.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Raintree on September 17, 2012, 12:20:19 PM
I love the "misinterpreted my advice" line. I don't see anything in the post that indicates she asked for diet/exercise advice on either of these dates.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: NyaChan on September 17, 2012, 12:31:00 PM
I love the "misinterpreted my advice" line. I don't see anything in the post that indicates she asked for diet/exercise advice on either of these dates.

haha I know right?  While it sucks that this guy was not as nice as she'd hoped, I am almost glad that OP's friend has had an experience where her initial gut instinct turned out to be true - now she'll know that it is okay to trust when she senses something is "off."
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: cicero on September 17, 2012, 12:42:48 PM
I am totally unsurprised by this update. I am sorry for your friend - i was that person a long time ago, i woudl put up with a lot of garbage just so i wouldn't be alone.

moral of this story: if it waddles like a duck, and says "quack quack", it is a duck. or if you think a guy is a jerk - listen to your instincts, they are usually right.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: greencat on September 17, 2012, 12:55:02 PM
Well, all the fat slobs on TV have hot wives (even after having three kids plus new twin babies).  That's the way the world is suppose to be.

Yeah, I almost broke something just writing that sentence.

That is my dominant dating-related complaint.  I tend to empty both barrels on men who appear to have that perspective.  Unfortunately, men in my dating age and men who think they're in my dating age range largely grew up on that type of show, and tend to have that expectation even subconsciously - it's actually a much more stealthy sort of sexism than the overt kind from the past.  These men have this expectation that they deserve a woman who is an 11, the whole brains-looks-personality package, despite making no effort to improve themselves past a 2 - and that the woman has no right to demand a man of equal quality, because she's just a prize for him.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: hobish on September 17, 2012, 12:58:11 PM

There we go, run of the mill jerk. No armchair psycho-analysis needed. I sometimes think people apply just a bit too much personal experience to these things and see some kind of a psychotic abuser at every instance.

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: NyaChan on September 17, 2012, 01:03:03 PM

There we go, run of the mill jerk. No armchair psycho-analysis needed. I sometimes think people apply just a bit too much personal experience to these things and see some kind of a psychotic abuser at every instance.

yeah, sometimes the things I read here make me too scared to get out there and date at all.  But then I remind myself that few people will post just to say how awesome their SO is as there is no etiquette dilemma there  :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8
Post by: weeblewobble on September 17, 2012, 01:26:09 PM

She got home, he calls her from the pub and apologized again, and admitted that he could be ‘funny’ about things like food, that his last girlfriend had put on 4 stone in the 6 years they had been together and he hated watching her do that to herself and that she never listened to him, and that he” felt helpless watching her do it to herself”. 


Well, you poor wounded panda, please use this past experience as an excuse to emotionally batter all future dates because if it's from a place of "concern" it's clearly righteous and justified, right? 

Seriously, I don't think your friend could have handled this better. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: weeblewobble on September 17, 2012, 01:27:32 PM


So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely

Does anyone else hear a woman's voice saying, "And that's when I stabbed him with a fork, Your Honor." ?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: SamiHami on September 17, 2012, 01:29:31 PM

There we go, run of the mill jerk. No armchair psycho-analysis needed. I sometimes think people apply just a bit too much personal experience to these things and see some kind of a psychotic abuser at every instance.

yeah, sometimes the things I read here make me too scared to get out there and date at all.  But then I remind myself that few people will post just to say how awesome their SO is as there is no etiquette dilemma there  :)

Well, my DH is pretty awesome--not perfect, but pretty darn good. There are a few of them out there...they're just hard to find. But they are worth the search.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 17, 2012, 01:32:55 PM


So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely

Does anyone else hear a woman's voice saying, "And that's when I stabbed him with a fork, Your Honor." ?

"Then, he ran into my knife.  He ran into it ten times.  He had it comin', he had it comin' all along..."
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Snooks on September 17, 2012, 01:38:40 PM
Well I hope you're happy, I've just demolished a large bowl of popcorn all by myself thanks to this thread  ;)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: jedikaiti on September 17, 2012, 01:46:39 PM

There we go, run of the mill jerk. No armchair psycho-analysis needed. I sometimes think people apply just a bit too much personal experience to these things and see some kind of a psychotic abuser at every instance.

yeah, sometimes the things I read here make me too scared to get out there and date at all.  But then I remind myself that few people will post just to say how awesome their SO is as there is no etiquette dilemma there  :)

Mine is totally awesome. ;-)

Actually, he really is - he's super encouraging and supports any and all of my efforts to get my weight under control, but not a nasty peep ever when I opt for a good dessert.

Took me flippin forever to find him, though!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Hillia on September 17, 2012, 01:53:28 PM
This is my BIL.  He weighs, literally, 500lbs or more and is of average looks.  He refuses to even consider a woman who is not supermodel beautiful and considers it 'lowering his standards' - he posts long FB rants about how he won't 'settle' for just anyone and if that means he'll be alone forever, then that's ok with him. (except he whines, so no it's not).  He also has the charming habit of posting nasty jokes about women he sees on dating sites.  Not specific women, but he'll pos a picture of an ugly animal and say,'Most of the women on <dating site> look like this!!!!!'.  Charming.  He also gripes a lot about 'SIFs' - Secret Internet Fatties.  He asserts that most women post overly flattering photos, and are all really extremely obese and unattractive.

Is it any wonder he can't get a date?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 17, 2012, 02:06:57 PM
This is my BIL.  He weighs, literally, 500lbs or more and is of average looks.  He refuses to even consider a woman who is not supermodel beautiful and considers it 'lowering his standards' - he posts long FB rants about how he won't 'settle' for just anyone and if that means he'll be alone forever, then that's ok with him. (except he whines, so no it's not).  He also has the charming habit of posting nasty jokes about women he sees on dating sites.  Not specific women, but he'll pos a picture of an ugly animal and say,'Most of the women on <dating site> look like this!!!!!'.  Charming.  He also gripes a lot about 'SIFs' - Secret Internet Fatties.  He asserts that most women post overly flattering photos, and are all really extremely obese and unattractive.

Is it any wonder he can't get a date?

Sounds like my cousin. He's not quite as bad. He's about 280lbs, so not uncommon. But because his mom and sister both struggle with their weight, he doesn't want a woman like that. He wants someone super skinny. His sister has set him up with some super skinny women before and then after dinner he'll say "I don't want to go out with her again. She has eating issues. She only ordered a salad, but didn't eat it. She just pushed the lettuce pieces around the plate with her fork all night." So, I guess he wants someone super skinny with an unnatural and dangerous metabolism that can down 3000 calories a day and still fit into a size 0. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: gramma dishes on September 17, 2012, 02:08:30 PM
This is my BIL.  He weighs, literally, 500lbs or more and is of average looks.  He refuses to even consider a woman who is not supermodel beautiful and considers it 'lowering his standards' - he posts long FB rants about how he won't 'settle' for just anyone and if that means he'll be alone forever, then that's ok with him. (except he whines, so no it's not).  He also has the charming habit of posting nasty jokes about women he sees on dating sites.  Not specific women, but he'll pos a picture of an ugly animal and say,'Most of the women on <dating site> look like this!!!!!'.  Charming.  He also gripes a lot about 'SIFs' - Secret Internet Fatties.  He asserts that most women post overly flattering photos, and are all really extremely obese and unattractive.

Is it any wonder he can't get a date?

Don't you sometimes wonder if he recognizes what he looks like and he assumes he won't be attractive to any woman anywhere anytime, so he sets up these totally unrealistic requirements that no real woman could ever live up to even if she were  actually interested in him?  That way he can convince his friends that the only reason he isn't with someone is because they aren't good enough for him -- and he's silly enough to think that even though HE knows better, his friends will buy it.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: exitzero on September 17, 2012, 02:11:48 PM


So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely

Does anyone else hear a woman's voice saying, "And that's when I stabbed him with a fork, Your Honor." ?

And then judge says, "Case dismissed!"
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: violinp on September 17, 2012, 02:13:24 PM


So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely

Does anyone else hear a woman's voice saying, "And that's when I stabbed him with a fork, Your Honor." ?

"Then, he ran into my knife.  He ran into it ten times.  He had it comin', he had it comin' all along..."

WIN  :D
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Hillia on September 17, 2012, 02:16:47 PM
This is my BIL.  He weighs, literally, 500lbs or more and is of average looks.  He refuses to even consider a woman who is not supermodel beautiful and considers it 'lowering his standards' - he posts long FB rants about how he won't 'settle' for just anyone and if that means he'll be alone forever, then that's ok with him. (except he whines, so no it's not).  He also has the charming habit of posting nasty jokes about women he sees on dating sites.  Not specific women, but he'll pos a picture of an ugly animal and say,'Most of the women on <dating site> look like this!!!!!'.  Charming.  He also gripes a lot about 'SIFs' - Secret Internet Fatties.  He asserts that most women post overly flattering photos, and are all really extremely obese and unattractive.

Is it any wonder he can't get a date?

Don't you sometimes wonder if he recognizes what he looks like and he assumes he won't be attractive to any woman anywhere anytime, so he sets up these totally unrealistic requirements that no real woman could ever live up to even if she were  actually interested in him?  That way he can convince his friends that the only reason he isn't with someone is because they aren't good enough for him -- and he's silly enough to think that even though HE knows better, his friends will buy it.

Actually, yes, we've kicked this idea around quite a bit.  He's very invested in being better than everyone around him...it's easy in his current situation, because he lives with his parents in a tiny, impoverished rural town, where most people barely make it out of high school.  He finished college (and sincerely, good for him) and that elevates him to the status of reigning intellectual even though he's not terribly bright and his grasp of what he learned in school is tenuous.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: weeblewobble on September 17, 2012, 02:17:27 PM
This is my BIL.  He weighs, literally, 500lbs or more and is of average looks.  He refuses to even consider a woman who is not supermodel beautiful and considers it 'lowering his standards' - he posts long FB rants about how he won't 'settle' for just anyone and if that means he'll be alone forever, then that's ok with him. (except he whines, so no it's not).  He also has the charming habit of posting nasty jokes about women he sees on dating sites.  Not specific women, but he'll pos a picture of an ugly animal and say,'Most of the women on <dating site> look like this!!!!!'.  Charming.  He also gripes a lot about 'SIFs' - Secret Internet Fatties.  He asserts that most women post overly flattering photos, and are all really extremely obese and unattractive.

Is it any wonder he can't get a date?

But these models are supposed to see through your BIL's exterior to the beautiful soul inside, right?  They're supposed get over their superficialities and value him for the good person he is, right? 

I blame this on two things.  1) Your BIL is a doofus.  2) The TV/movie trope involving lovable chubby guys happily married to thin, gorgeous women. (The Jim Belushi Show, King of Queens, heck, the Honeymooners)  It reinforces this idea that women are programmed to look past the surface and be the more emotionally mature person in the relationship.  It's OK for men to want a pretty, slender wife, but if a woman wants a good-looking hunk of a man, she's shallow and heartless.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: LeveeWoman on September 17, 2012, 02:28:23 PM


So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely

Does anyone else hear a woman's voice saying, "And that's when I stabbed him with a fork, Your Honor." ?

LOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Raintree on September 17, 2012, 03:00:50 PM
This is my BIL.  He weighs, literally, 500lbs or more and is of average looks.  He refuses to even consider a woman who is not supermodel beautiful and considers it 'lowering his standards' - he posts long FB rants about how he won't 'settle' for just anyone and if that means he'll be alone forever, then that's ok with him. (except he whines, so no it's not).  He also has the charming habit of posting nasty jokes about women he sees on dating sites.  Not specific women, but he'll pos a picture of an ugly animal and say,'Most of the women on <dating site> look like this!!!!!'.  Charming.  He also gripes a lot about 'SIFs' - Secret Internet Fatties.  He asserts that most women post overly flattering photos, and are all really extremely obese and unattractive.

Is it any wonder he can't get a date?

Has anyone ever said to him, "I think the kind of women you're looking for are going to be looking for a guy who keeps himself in shape." Or just ask him what qualities HE has to offer these women. I'd be interested to know what makes him think he's such a prize.

You know, going back to the OP's update, I am so pleased that the woman called the guy out on his commentary of her eating habits. I bet he never expected to hear that. The other sign that he's a control freak is the "I'll pay for this, so I suggest we both order X" line. If you're treating someone, the polite thing to do is ask the person what they would like. (And in turn, the person being treated does not take advantage by ordering the most expensive thing on the menu). In fact, if he were a gentleman, he wouldn't mention the check until after the meal, and then he'd quietly go settle the check with the server afterwards. Good on her for insisting on paying for her own, thereby not relinquishing control.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 17, 2012, 03:42:44 PM


So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely

Does anyone else hear a woman's voice saying, "And that's when I stabbed him with a fork, Your Honor." ?

"Then, he ran into my knife.  He ran into it ten times.  He had it comin', he had it comin' all along..."

WIN  :D

Why thank you! :) It's my favorite song from Chicago. :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 17, 2012, 03:46:26 PM
You know, if the person treating me were taking me to a restaurant they liked and I'd never been there, I wouldn't mind if they suggested something that they liked to order and knew was tasty.  But if they said "let me order" I'd say "How bout you suggest something and I'll consider it?"

I'm also reminded of Molly Brown's line in "Titanic" after Cal orders the lamb, rare, with very little mint sauce for himself and Rose.  Molly (the lovely Kathy Bates) leans over saying "You gonna cut 'er meat for her too there, Cal?"
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Cat-Fu on September 17, 2012, 04:34:38 PM
Yikes! This guy sounds like a legit jerk. Good for your friend, squashedfrog!

What a guy, to get ants in his pants over a *side.* Or popcorn, for that matter. That terrible 100 calories will surely do in any woman's svelte figure!  ::)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Iris on September 17, 2012, 05:04:16 PM


So yep, you guessed it, he starts to frown and asks why she needs two sides(??).    He then tells her that that is “totally defeating the object of going down the gym, as what’s the point in doing all that exercise if you are just going to pig out afterwards?”  (not sure if those the exact words, but the phrase pig out was definitely

Does anyone else hear a woman's voice saying, "And that's when I stabbed him with a fork, Your Honor." ?

Bahahahahaha!

OP - I admit I did a little excited dance when I read that there was an update coming! It didn't disappoint either :) Please say thank you to your friend for providing us with so much entertainment.

NyaChan - I don't normally talk like this because it sounds a bit cutesy, but just so you know, DH and I have both gained weight, but I've gained more and I gained it earlier. If I say "I'm really unmotivated tonight will you set up my treadmill for me so it's just that bit easier?" he will and that's his only involvement in my weight loss efforts. No comments, no diet police, lots of love and support and compliments. Reading this thread made me walk away from the computer to let him know how much I appreciate him.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Raintree on September 17, 2012, 05:17:00 PM
All the way across the Atlantic here in Canada, I was waiting to hear how her date went as well. The guy had no idea how many people were anxiously awaiting to hear his next move.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 17, 2012, 05:27:53 PM
All the way across the Atlantic here in Canada, I was waiting to hear how her date went as well. The guy had no idea how many people were anxiously awaiting to hear his next move.

Too true! We're all cheering OP's friend and OP for relaying the story. I think each and every one of us should mail him one piece of popcorn from our locations with a note that says "I ate a piece of buttery popcorn in your honor."
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Cat-Fu on September 17, 2012, 05:45:49 PM
I'm home alone tonight, I'm eating way more than one piece of popcorn! I may squeeze in an extra cupcake in his honor, though. ;)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 17, 2012, 05:58:46 PM
Yep, there certainly do seem to be a lot of "No Fat Chicks" types about. 

They seem to keep getting dumped!   ;)

I dated ^^this^^ guy for 4 years and let me tell you, my friend list was very depleted by the time we broke it off.  While I'm not a "fat chick" I do (did) have friends who were over a size two. You would have thought that they were mass murderers/psychotic freaks the way he treated them.

It took me a very very very long time to win some of my friends back and some of them refuse to speak to me now :(
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 17, 2012, 06:22:33 PM
My parents were like this, and my mother once criticized the wife of a college friend for 'letting herself go' after she 'caught the guy'.  ::) And I always got a lecture about how a woman needs to stay looking good for her man.   I've got a small build as it is but I was always rather skinny though high school and college and  my 20's.  Too skinny for DH's tastes some of the time but when I'd put on some weight, enough to look healthy and within my BMI, my folks would make comments about me putting on weight and "should you be having that extra cookie?"

Makes me really grateful for my DH and that he likes me the way I am. :)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: artk2002 on September 17, 2012, 06:27:56 PM
A bullet dodged and very neatly, too.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Venus193 on September 17, 2012, 07:08:20 PM
I think she dodged a falling anvil.

Good update and these guys need to be called out on their delusions of entitlement.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: cjeanies on September 17, 2012, 09:25:39 PM
what surprised me is that he tried it on so early.  I thought these types tried to wear girls down first.  I wonder if he was in that relationship so long before he thought it would be that easy. 

But again, thats me over thinking its one of those things you'll never know.  Can't pop these people in a petri dish and poke 'em with a scalpel to know how they work alas.

Wouldn't that be wonderful if we could, though!?  I'd love to know what piece of his brain is missing.

I'm so glad she went on this second date, so that, as another poster said, she could trust her gut instinct.  Honestly, that's some seriously good dating research and experience.  She saved herself a lot of time with this guy and the next one who starts to show bad signs(even about other stuff) 

I believe his ex (or current girlfriend) probably did not have the weight issues that he described.  I think the issues are his entirely. 

And I'm glad she didn't try to talk to him about what he was doing wrong.  If anything, all the guy will garner from a conversation like that is how to hide his problems a lot longer with the next girl.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 17, 2012, 09:54:05 PM
I believe his ex (or current girlfriend) probably did not have the weight issues that he described.  I think the issues are his entirely. 

POD
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: greencat on September 17, 2012, 10:08:38 PM
Also chiming in with "Don't be scared to date!"  My current squeeze is appreciate of me being a little zaftig at the moment.  I wish he could have a talk with my favorite pair of jeans though...

My last ex also, despite the comment about my weight, never actually made comments about my eating.  The one ex that did try to control my eating was bulimic - although his control issues were about content rather than quantity, as he was a near-vegan and he kept trying to force me to stop eating meat.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Raintree on September 18, 2012, 12:27:36 AM
What a guy, to get ants in his pants over a *side.* Or popcorn, for that matter. That terrible 100 calories will surely do in any woman's svelte figure!  ::)

Well....at the risk of thread-jacking, we're not talking 100 extra calories here. I recall reading some years back that a large serving of movie theatre popcorn was worse than downing two Big Macs and a large fries and a shake, or something like that (I didn't remember the exact stats, but I remember some amazing comparisons with McDonalds). That is because it is popped in oil, not in air like the stuff you might make at home. Add the buttery topping and you have a heart attack in a bag.

Google "movie theatre popcorn" and you get articles like this:

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/20091119/movie-theater-popcorn-a-calorie-bomb

and this:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/11/19/popcorn-movie-theatre-salt-fat.html

"A large untopped popcorn has 1,120 calories...."

Disclaimer: I am NOT defending the popcorn hoarder!!! Not in any way, shape or form. I enjoy the occasional movie popcorn myself, and although I have never been to Nando's, if I went there starving after a workout I am sure I would order whatever I thought it would take to satisfy my hunger!!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Tigger on September 18, 2012, 10:43:11 AM
I am a mother of a son.  I am trying to teach him to eat healthy, exercise and have treats in moderation.  I will also be teaching him how to treat a women properly and not like a piece of meat he owns.  Come to think of it, he will also learn by example from my DH.

My DH HATES and I mean HATES exercise.  He sees it as a form of torture.  Yet he's 5"9" and 160 pounds.  Why???? He knows he will not exercise so he watches what he eats.  Don't get me wrong he's not a sloth  ;)  He loves to take DS hiking and out for walks. We go to the park almost everyday.  But if I were to say to him let's go for a jog he would turn green  ;D

It's a rare person that can eat anything and never gain weight. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: NyaChan on September 18, 2012, 10:50:14 AM
So, I'd never heard of Nandos and looked it up - very cool website & the food looks so yummy.  Wonder if we'll ever get one here...
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Snooks on September 18, 2012, 12:44:55 PM
So, I'd never heard of Nandos and looked it up - very cool website & the food looks so yummy.  Wonder if we'll ever get one here...

I think it's quite a common first date restaurant, I've certainly sat next to people who sounded like they were on a(n unsuccessful) first date.  I was thinking Mr Picky wouldn't have liked me because I don't like their chicken quarters, which is what I suspect he wanted her to order, so I normally get one of their pitas plus their yummy rice (and eat some of DH's spicy fries).
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 18, 2012, 01:24:31 PM
So, I'd never heard of Nandos and looked it up - very cool website & the food looks so yummy.  Wonder if we'll ever get one here...

POD. The website  (http://www.nandos.com/index1.html) is very very cool looking. I design websites for a living. However, I couldn't find any restaurant locations! So it's not too helpful or easy to use. But it sure is cool looking.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: greencat on September 18, 2012, 01:58:45 PM
I had to click through several sub-pages to find a page that tells me there's only one U.S. location?  Except then I have to click through to another website and that site tells me that there are several locations, but all of them are in the Washington, D.C. area.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: shygirl on September 18, 2012, 02:06:14 PM
There's in Maryland in some shopping center called The Rio (?).  Not exactly sure if that's the name of the shopping center.

The first time I had Nando's was when we went to Zimbabwe to visit my husband's family.  It was really, really good! 

ETA:  I found the place  http://www.washingtoniancenter.com/dining.cfm?id=5 (http://www.washingtoniancenter.com/dining.cfm?id=5)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Virg on September 18, 2012, 02:21:21 PM
My cat is a ninja wrote:

"I'm home alone tonight, I'm eating way more than one piece of popcorn! I may squeeze in an extra cupcake in his honor, though."

It's OK, you can always run it off later.

(dives for cover)

Virg
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 18, 2012, 02:48:01 PM
My MIL visited today and not only brought MickeyD's, she also brought a dozen donuts from Dunkin Donuts.  HAH!!  >:D
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 18, 2012, 02:56:47 PM
The one I go to is in Bethesda, next to the Elm St Garage. The Rio is further north in Gaithersburg if I remember correctly.

In the fall and winter they have a yummy roasted squash and cranberry side. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: siamesecat2965 on September 19, 2012, 09:38:23 AM
The one I go to is in Bethesda, next to the Elm St Garage. The Rio is further north in Gaithersburg if I remember correctly.

In the fall and winter they have a yummy roasted squash and cranberry side.

It is; I have cousins in Germantown and near the Shady Grove metro, and we go there all the time.  To the center, nevr been to Nando's
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Corvid on September 21, 2012, 06:41:03 AM
This is my BIL.  He weighs, literally, 500lbs or more and is of average looks.  He refuses to even consider a woman who is not supermodel beautiful and considers it 'lowering his standards' - he posts long FB rants about how he won't 'settle' for just anyone and if that means he'll be alone forever, then that's ok with him. (except he whines, so no it's not).  He also has the charming habit of posting nasty jokes about women he sees on dating sites.  Not specific women, but he'll pos a picture of an ugly animal and say,'Most of the women on <dating site> look like this!!!!!'.  Charming.  He also gripes a lot about 'SIFs' - Secret Internet Fatties.  He asserts that most women post overly flattering photos, and are all really extremely obese and unattractive.

Is it any wonder he can't get a date?

Please tell me he's not also one of those self-described "Nice Guys" who complain that women aren't interested in him because they only go for jerks.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Hillia on September 21, 2012, 11:14:37 AM
Oh yeah, he is. And as someone pointed out upthread, all women are shallow because they won't look past his exterior.  Any that do are only after his money. (he doesn't have any).

He's currenly moaning on facebook about how hard it is to be a romantic and wear his heart on his sleeve, only to have it broken over and over.  He developed a mad crush on a cute young (nearly 15 years his junior) college student, very slim and attractive, and she's now the love of his life and it breaks his heart every time she doesn't return a text, etc.  For the record she seems perfectly nice and friendly, just not interested in him romantically.  And since he just moved back home with his parents, 1500 miles from where she lives...yeah, that one's kinda doomed.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 21, 2012, 02:26:05 PM
Please tell me he's not also one of those self-described "Nice Guys" who complain that women aren't interested in him because they only go for jerks.

^^^ YES! The theme song of most of the emotionally abusive and manipulative men I've dated!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 21, 2012, 03:56:05 PM
Yeah I don't trust guys who say that.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 21, 2012, 04:46:01 PM
Yeah I don't trust guys who say that.

It's a sketchy litmus test. When I first started dating my DH, he said that to me that "women don't like nice guys. They're only attracted to jerks." It set off all alarms in my head, but we'd known each other for years and so I took a chance dating him anyway. He's fantastic and we've been married nearly 10 years now. So there are some nice guys out there who subscribe to this too, but most jerks use the line to gain sympathy.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 21, 2012, 06:52:16 PM
I can't really rely on my own dating past, as DH was the only one I've had a relationship with (the rest were just 1-2 dates without even a kiss shared) . 

But based on what I've seen friends deal with, and some guy friends who have spouted this line and then turned out to be jerks, I'd be very hesitant to date them myself.  One guy who called himself a "nice guy" also would go on and on about how chivalrous he thought he was, and how a woman should be treated like a queen, etc. etc.

His wife is divorcing him now cause apparently he thinks emotional manipulation is the best way to treat your queen. ::)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 21, 2012, 07:06:23 PM
His wife is divorcing him now cause apparently he thinks emotional manipulation is the best way to treat your queen. ::)

It seems to me that many men who advocate "treating women like queens" are taking their relationship advice from Henry VIII.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: jedikaiti on September 21, 2012, 07:10:44 PM
His wife is divorcing him now cause apparently he thinks emotional manipulation is the best way to treat your queen. ::)

It seems to me that many men who advocate "treating women like queens" are taking their relationship advice from Henry VIII.

CRUD MONKEYS! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You won today's internet.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 21, 2012, 07:21:42 PM
His wife is divorcing him now cause apparently he thinks emotional manipulation is the best way to treat your queen. ::)

It seems to me that many men who advocate "treating women like queens" are taking their relationship advice from Henry VIII.

CRUD MONKEYS! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You won today's internet.

DING DING DING!! We have a winner!!  Tell the good woman what she's won! :):)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: violinp on September 21, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
His wife is divorcing him now cause apparently he thinks emotional manipulation is the best way to treat your queen. ::)

It seems to me that many men who advocate "treating women like queens" are taking their relationship advice from Henry VIII.

CRUD MONKEYS! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You won today's internet.

Applause! Applause all around!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: greencat on September 21, 2012, 07:57:35 PM
My ex kept telling me that he wanted to treat me like gold, and that I was the most precious and amazing thing he'd ever had.

Given the context of this thread, is it any surprise that he mostly just treated me like a spoiled teenager treats his mother (give me money to spend on things! give me rides - because either his car was not working, or because he was going to be drinking too much to be driving), and put me absolutely last on the priority list for his time?
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: blarg314 on September 21, 2012, 08:06:50 PM
Yeah I don't trust guys who say that.

It's a sketchy litmus test. When I first started dating my DH, he said that to me that "women don't like nice guys. They're only attracted to jerks." It set off all alarms in my head, but we'd known each other for years and so I took a chance dating him anyway. He's fantastic and we've been married nearly 10 years now. So there are some nice guys out there who subscribe to this too, but most jerks use the line to gain sympathy.

I've found that there are people (men and women) who are really nice, and make great partners/spouses when matched with the right person, but who have real trouble *finding* that right person. Some are shy or a bit awkward, or late social bloomers, some need someone who 'gets' them and their outlook on life. Some are simply unique people who fall outside what is considered mainstream and desirable in a partner in more external things, but are great in the more internal things (commitment, treating someone right, responsibility). Geeky girls and effeminate straight men, for example, can have a hard time on the dating scene.

Then there are the guys who *aren't* nice. They think they're such an amazing catch that women should be falling all over themselves to be with them, and when that doesn't happen (usually to one or more whopping flaws) it's obviously the fault of those witches.

And there's an intermediate stage. Guys who are reasonable nice guys, maybe with a few quirks. But they have bad dating skills, and scare off women who would actually be interested in the person behind it. So they get angry and disillusioned because they don't understand why they aren't succeeding.

I have a colleague who I think is drifting into the last category. He's a nice guy, and really wants a girlfriend, but I have a feeling he's scaring off women by being too intense and focussed on that goal. Plus, he has trouble grasping that while *he* knows he's not a creepy stalker dude, the women he's chatting up don't, and he has to adapt his style so he doesn't give that impression, even if the motives behind his behaviour are innocent.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 21, 2012, 08:20:28 PM
My ex kept telling me that he wanted to treat me like gold, and that I was the most precious and amazing thing he'd ever had.

Given the context of this thread, is it any surprise that he mostly just treated me like a spoiled teenager treats his mother (give me money to spend on things! give me rides - because either his car was not working, or because he was going to be drinking too much to be driving), and put me absolutely last on the priority list for his time?

Wow, if I didn't know any better I'd think you were my friend who's divorcing her ex! He was kinda like this too.  She held the purse strings cause he couldn't be trusted with much money.  He'd either spend it on drinks or board games, or computer/video games.  He relied on her to tell him when he needed to check his blood sugar (diabetic type 1) but then would whine like a little kid and insist he was FINE when she'd encourage him to check.

She used to say she felt like she was his mother, especially since he worked pt, usually about the same amount of hours a teen still attending school does, sometimes even less, while she supported him.   It didn't help when he got fired for drinking on the job years ago, thus making it even harder for him to get hired elsewhere.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: wendelenn on September 21, 2012, 08:34:19 PM
His wife is divorcing him now cause apparently he thinks emotional manipulation is the best way to treat your queen. ::)

It seems to me that many men who advocate "treating women like queens" are taking their relationship advice from Henry VIII.

Yvaine, I hope you don't mind this. . . I just loved your line! (had to make it a teensy bit shorter)

(http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1348277380703_1757120.png)
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: VorFemme on September 21, 2012, 09:35:01 PM
His wife is divorcing him now cause apparently he thinks emotional manipulation is the best way to treat your queen. ::)

It seems to me that many men who advocate "treating women like queens" are taking their relationship advice from Henry VIII.

Yvaine, I hope you don't mind this. . . I just loved your line! (had to make it a teensy bit shorter)

(http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1348277380703_1757120.png)

Well, this is going right up there with the "No snakes in a restaurant" graphic someone did a while back (wonder if there is still a link to that one?)!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Sterling on September 21, 2012, 09:47:46 PM
I actually wonder if the girl friend who gained the weight (my my calculations around 55 lbs) was actually extremely underweight when they started dating.  I can see a woman being 30lbs underweight due to an eating disorder and gaining that much weight yet still being in a healthy range.  This type of attitude can make it difficult for a woman to recover from an eating disorder.  Also makes me wonder if as part of her recovery she ditched him an his poor little ego couldn't take the "fat girl" ditching him.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: greencat on September 21, 2012, 09:51:54 PM
I actually wonder if the girl friend who gained the weight (my my calculations around 55 lbs) was actually extremely underweight when they started dating.  I can see a woman being 30lbs underweight due to an eating disorder and gaining that much weight yet still being in a healthy range.  This type of attitude can make it difficult for a woman to recover from an eating disorder.  Also makes me wonder if as part of her recovery she ditched him an his poor little ego couldn't take the "fat girl" ditching him.

You can be 30 lbs underweight and not have an eating disorder - just a fast metabolism.  I was thrilled when my metabolism started to slow down and food turned into body mass like it was supposed to...
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: FauxFoodist on September 22, 2012, 12:23:47 PM
yeah, sometimes the things I read here make me too scared to get out there and date at all.  But then I remind myself that few people will post just to say how awesome their SO is as there is no etiquette dilemma there  :)

I'll also chime in that DF is pretty awesome.  He's not perfect, but the little things haven't been enough to be deal-breakers.  There actually have been several etiquette dilemmas, but I find I can figure those ones out myself and work them out with him.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Allyson on September 23, 2012, 12:47:57 AM
And then there's all those people who are 'not right for you' but  not nearly entertaining enough to post on the internet about! Nobody starts a thread about 'that pleasant fellow you shared a meal with, but decided to just be friends'.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Carotte on September 23, 2012, 04:52:40 AM
I don't like generalisation and blanket statements but I find it true that some women only go for jerks, be it because of their true nature or because they feel they are not worth better, sometime they do prefer jerks. 
I know it sounds absolutely stupid and head-hurting for those of us that don't feel that way (and are thankfully on the "I'm worth someone who treats me like I deserve to be treated - awesomely with a side of ice-cream" side), but there are people out there who are only happy if there is a problem, shouting match, arguments, cheating boyfriend and so on.
I see that in a friend of my family, who could fuel half this forum by herself with how her husband is treating her - but she's sound of mind and isn't trying to get out of this relashionship.
People are weird like that. Maybe she'll realise what's going on one day...

She was with a nice guy once, great guy even by her dating history, and well, it wasn't "challenging" enough I guess.
And I've even had the thought regarding some of my guy friends, that they are too nice for their own good. There's being nice and letting the other one walk all over you because you don't want to be a bother. So they'll mostly be single until they find the girl who's grown-up enough to know that a nice guy is worth everything.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Sophia on September 23, 2012, 09:19:54 AM
My theory is that women generally highlight the good side of the current boyfriend, and highlight the bad side of the past boyfriend.  So, if a guy hears a woman talk about previous boyfriends many of them will be described as "jerks".  Even if the only jerky thing he did was to dump her. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: jedikaiti on September 23, 2012, 05:20:32 PM
I don't like generalisation and blanket statements but I find it true that some women only go for jerks, be it because of their true nature or because they feel they are not worth better, sometime they do prefer jerks. 
I know it sounds absolutely stupid and head-hurting for those of us that don't feel that way (and are thankfully on the "I'm worth someone who treats me like I deserve to be treated - awesomely with a side of ice-cream" side), but there are people out there who are only happy if there is a problem, shouting match, arguments, cheating boyfriend and so on.
I see that in a friend of my family, who could fuel half this forum by herself with how her husband is treating her - but she's sound of mind and isn't trying to get out of this relashionship.
People are weird like that. Maybe she'll realise what's going on one day...

She was with a nice guy once, great guy even by her dating history, and well, it wasn't "challenging" enough I guess.
And I've even had the thought regarding some of my guy friends, that they are too nice for their own good. There's being nice and letting the other one walk all over you because you don't want to be a bother. So they'll mostly be single until they find the girl who's grown-up enough to know that a nice guy is worth everything.

I'm not sure if they're happy so much as convinced it's normal - if there's no/not enough drama, something MUST be wrong!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Venus193 on September 23, 2012, 05:36:31 PM
A good friend of mine is convinced that there is no passion in a relationship if there is no drama.  I wish I had enough experience to refute that.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Iris on September 23, 2012, 05:44:41 PM
A good friend of mine is convinced that there is no passion in a relationship if there is no drama.  I wish I had enough experience to refute that.

DH believed that (so men suffer from it too). We broke up for a time because although he "really really liked me" he just didn't believe that he could be in love because he was able to lead a life independent from me at times  ::) Luckily he came to his senses after seeing that although he knew I loved him I was still able to be fabulous after we broke up (small university community gives you the chance to really show your ex just how GREAT you are doing  ;)). Seeing that not everyone behaves like Bella flicked a switch in his head.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 23, 2012, 05:51:39 PM
Which I think is a good argument for saying that kids will watch their parent's marriage and it will shape their future interactions with their partners.

I grew up watching my parents fight a lot and I hated it and decided I would marry a gentle man without a temper and we would not fight like that.  Mind you, I figured there would be disagreements but not screaming fights.  And actually we don't, and DH doesn't have a temper, never raises voice except to make himself heard over a lot of noise. :) I actually have more of a temper than he does but I've got a long fuse on mine unless I'm tired or not feeling well which isn't often.

So I can see how, since people react to things in different ways, some people might think screaming is normal when fighting and if there is no screaming, there's something wrong. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Allyson on September 23, 2012, 06:39:39 PM

I grew up watching my parents fight a lot and I hated it and decided I would marry a gentle man without a temper and we would not fight like that.  Mind you, I figured there would be disagreements but not screaming fights.  And actually we don't, and DH doesn't have a temper, never raises voice except to make himself heard over a lot of noise. :) I actually have more of a temper than he does but I've got a long fuse on mine unless I'm tired or not feeling well which isn't often.


That describes my upbringing and current relationship almost perfectly! I don't think I could ever be in a relationship with lots of 'fights' the way some people see them. It's definitely true that people are convinced all couples must fight, though. When I moved in with my boyfriend more than one person told me we'd start having fights soon after.

Some women are attracted to jerks, some guys are attracted to jerks, too (but they're usually called 'drama queens' :D) I'm suspicious of anyone who has only bad things to say about all his/her exes, and casts themself in the victim role over and over. They often end up like 'popcorn guy' telling future partners all about their ex issues. None of which could possibly be even slightly their own responsibility...
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Auntie Mame on September 23, 2012, 07:13:58 PM
Please tell me he's not also one of those self-described "Nice Guys" who complain that women aren't interested in him because they only go for jerks.

^^^ YES! The theme song of most of the emotionally abusive and manipulative men I've dated!

Men who say that are not nice guys.  They are closet jerks, emotionally manipulative, have no self esteem and have a very narrow definition of how a woman "should" behave.  Women won't put up with their nonsense so therefore all women are female dogs who only date jerks. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: mbbored on September 23, 2012, 08:02:47 PM
I have a colleague who I think is drifting into the last category. He's a nice guy, and really wants a girlfriend, but I have a feeling he's scaring off women by being too intense and focussed on that goal. Plus, he has trouble grasping that while *he* knows he's not a creepy stalker dude, the women he's chatting up don't, and he has to adapt his style so he doesn't give that impression, even if the motives behind his behaviour are innocent.

I've been out with this guy a few times over the past few months. For me he's usually a great match on paper (degree, career, owns a house, has a hobby) but seems to have a giant girlfriend sized hole in my life. When I ask about his travel interests, he talks about places he would go with a girlfriend. When I ask about what he likes to cook, he describes the dish he would make if he had a girlfriend over (interestingly enough always is sauteed veggies in a white wine sauce over whole wheat pasta.) They talk about how great their family is, and on the second date want to make plans to introduce me to his parents and can't wait to come home with me for Christmas.

The last one called my voicemail, heard my last name, looked me up on my university website and asked a buddy who works in a nearby building to walk over to my office and say hi for him. When I called him and said he was acting like a stalker, he laughed until he realized I was serious and tried to back track, saying I shouldn't dump him over a mistake when he was just trying to be romantic.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 23, 2012, 08:41:42 PM
It's interesting, two of my close girl friends had a good relationship with their father growing up but have been very unlucky with men.  One of them gave up on men when she was 23, back in 79 and has been single ever since.  Now she says the only man she has is the one in her imagination and he does whatever she wants him too! LOL!

The other is the one divorcing one of these "Nice Guys".  Interestingly, when we were in college, I was telling my roommate and her boyfriend about friend and her "Nice guy".  Roommate's BF (RBF) says "It won't last. Girls like her are attracted to jerks and she won't know what to do with a nice guy."  Now this  friend is real sweet, not a drama queen at all, but  she is just a  magnet for jerks,  it seems.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: greencat on September 23, 2012, 09:07:21 PM
My most successful relationships thus far, as far as how I felt about myself and my general level of happiness, if not in longevity, have all been with guys who were actually nice.  Of course, the reason why some of those were not very long is that when both parties in a relationship are nice and drama free, you break up when you aren't right for each other, instead of dragging it out for whatever bad reasons you do when you're in a relationship with someone who isn't really nice.

Some of my worst relationships have been with guys who referred to themselves as a-holes.  I only went through one relationship and one fling before I made it a rule not to date guys who were awful enough that they were actually aware of it.

However, my longest worst relationship was with a guy who espoused just about every non-abuse bad boyfriend trait - the slob who wanted to only be with the supermodel, the mama's boy, the "nice sensitive guy" who was really just a whiny codependent, etc.

I keep wanting to poke the one I've got now to make sure he's actually real, because he's nice without being a doormat.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: cjeanies on September 23, 2012, 10:36:15 PM
  Now this  friend is real sweet, not a drama queen at all, but  she is just a  magnet for jerks,  it seems.

I think a lot of the 'magnets for jerks'  are the type of people who see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt type people.  I don't think those types like the drama of being in a bad relationship as a pp suggested.. 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Ceallach on September 23, 2012, 10:44:32 PM
yeah, sometimes the things I read here make me too scared to get out there and date at all.  But then I remind myself that few people will post just to say how awesome their SO is as there is no etiquette dilemma there  :)

I'll also chime in that DF is pretty awesome.  He's not perfect, but the little things haven't been enough to be deal-breakers.  There actually have been several etiquette dilemmas, but I find I can figure those ones out myself and work them out with him.

So true.   I sometimes look at divorce rates and despair, but then when I look around me I realise I actually know heaps of really, genuinely happy couples.   They just slip under the radar because they're busy happily getting on with life!    Whereas those I know who are in unhappy relationships or who are unhappy with their relationship status have a lot to share and need a lot of support, so they just seem more prevalent.

When I met DH I honestly kept thinking "Ok, that moment will come when it falls apart" and it blew my mind that the relationship kept getting better and better every year instead.   8.5 years now and I still go "but surely everybody hits that point.... right?"   But I'm not sure that it will, because everytime something isn't working for one of us (e.g. not enough attention or quality time, one of being too messy or too stressed), we fix it.  And then things are awesome again.  So I guess it would take something pretty big and unfixable to break us.   Maybe having kids will do it!   But I do think I am lucky because I actually found one of those genuinely nice guys that girls *do* overlook - because they weren't looking at the mountain bike track!  ;D  Which was one of the very boy-focused hobbies he was busy with. He didn't really date at all although he'd had 1 girlfriend before me.   He started working with somebody I knew who invited him out one night, I snapped him up the second I met him and the rest is history.  Now many of my friends are jealous because he's just such a great husband (cooks, cleans, earns a good salary, is loving and kind, handyman extraordinaire, and also is very adaptable and accepting - he has supported me through lots of life's little dramas).    But you really just don't find that type of guy hanging around in nightclubs.    But they do exist.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 24, 2012, 05:59:57 AM
  Now this  friend is real sweet, not a drama queen at all, but  she is just a  magnet for jerks,  it seems.

I think a lot of the 'magnets for jerks'  are the type of people who see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt type people.  I don't think those types like the drama of being in a bad relationship as a pp suggested..

I agree, more often than not it seems like the ones that attract jerks are either the ones that either have a hard time saying "Sorry not interested" or they're the sort that think they can fix the guy.  Least from what I know of with my friends.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Yvaine on September 24, 2012, 06:40:55 AM
  Now this  friend is real sweet, not a drama queen at all, but  she is just a  magnet for jerks,  it seems.

I think a lot of the 'magnets for jerks'  are the type of people who see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt type people.  I don't think those types like the drama of being in a bad relationship as a pp suggested..

There are a few people who like the drama--I know a guy who is like that; he thinks a relationship is dull if there aren't crockery-throwing fights every couple days. But I think that women's love for "bad boys" is kind of overstated in general. Just as Nice Guys (tm) aren't always nice, the guys that Nice Guys describe as jerks, as in "women only go for jerks," are often decent men who are being unfairly vilified for being assertive, conventionally attractive, or anything else that makes the self-proclaimed Nice Guy insecure.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: girlysprite on September 24, 2012, 06:55:51 AM
  Now this  friend is real sweet, not a drama queen at all, but  she is just a  magnet for jerks,  it seems.

I think a lot of the 'magnets for jerks'  are the type of people who see the good in everyone, give everyone the benefit of the doubt type people.  I don't think those types like the drama of being in a bad relationship as a pp suggested..

I agree, more often than not it seems like the ones that attract jerks are either the ones that either have a hard time saying "Sorry not interested" or they're the sort that think they can fix the guy.  Least from what I know of with my friends.

Reminds me of a saying: 'Men fix their house & car, women fix their men'.

When it comes to such girls, they need to realize that the only thing other people might learn from them are 'tricks'. When they are slobby in the household tasks, they could be taught to move the trashbags outside and flush the toilet - that kind of stuff. But you can't fix deeper traits. A non-social person will never become the center of parties. A chaotic person will never become truly organized.

Back to the original jerk of the thread, the opening post reminded me of gas lighting. He is displaying nasty behavior and giving bad comments, but will act like sunshine and rainbows when the woman faces him. I feel like he doesn't just want to control her behavior, he wants to make her uncertain about herself. And that gives me creepy vibes all over.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Winterlight on September 24, 2012, 12:52:55 PM
I've been out with this guy a few times over the past few months. For me he's usually a great match on paper (degree, career, owns a house, has a hobby) but seems to have a giant girlfriend sized hole in my life. When I ask about his travel interests, he talks about places he would go with a girlfriend. When I ask about what he likes to cook, he describes the dish he would make if he had a girlfriend over (interestingly enough always is sauteed veggies in a white wine sauce over whole wheat pasta.) They talk about how great their family is, and on the second date want to make plans to introduce me to his parents and can't wait to come home with me for Christmas.

I've met him too. That's such a turn-off to me. I don't want to be the reason you have a life, I want to be part of your life. An important part, but not the only thing keeping you going.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Carotte on September 24, 2012, 01:05:39 PM
I've been reading a book ( A pair of blue eyes - Thomas Hardy ) where the girl 'ditched' the previous nice-guy she promised to marry for the kind-of-not-nice-arogant one ( older, from a nicer background, successful and all that) because she was in awe, like she felt she wasn't worth him and since he deigned* to give her some attention she fell head over heels.
I guess that happens often too (and for guys too). I mean, there's admiring the person you are with (which is perfectly normal) and there's crazy-fan-girl "I'm not worth it, use me as slippers so as to not get mudd on your feets".

*At first, then he really feel in love.

I keep wanting to poke the one I've got now to make sure he's actually real, because he's nice without being a doormat.

Ahahaha, that's exactly how I feel!
Surely my boyfriend can't be actually real. I mean, he has his flaws ( that I still find somewhat cute after 4 months together ) but he also has so many qualities.
He's extremely mature ( yes, even when we go around putting our fingers in eachother's ears) so anything that could have come up as an issue is dealt with by talking.
We've joked before that it wasn't normal, maybe we should try arguing or something, but never came up with a sore subject.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Corvid on September 24, 2012, 06:20:50 PM
Quote
Men who say that are not nice guys.  They are closet jerks, emotionally manipulative, have no self esteem and have a very narrow definition of how a woman "should" behave.  Women won't put up with their nonsense so therefore all women are female dogs who only date jerks.


I don't remember where I read it now, but someone somewhere pointed out that a "nice guy" isn't necessarily a good man.  Some males will claim to be a nice guy simply because they aren't overtly offensive.  However, jerkiness is jerkiness whether it's in your face or not.  A good man treats people well because that's how you treat people.  A good man acts like he's someone's friend because he is that person's friend.

Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Venus193 on September 24, 2012, 06:41:41 PM
A "nice" guy could be providing a good facade or may be ineffectual.  Neither of these traits are desirable.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 24, 2012, 07:15:39 PM
What drew me to DH was that he was sweet and did not brag about how nice he was.  Still doesn't, and when he is complimented on it he shrugs, smiles and says "I try". 

The guys I've known who do say they're a Nice Guy make me think of folks who boast about how good they are in bed.   
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: blarg314 on September 24, 2012, 09:58:17 PM

My observation is that being attracted to jerks is gender and/or orientation independent, but can vary in how it shows itself between men and women. I've also observed that there are several different reasons for doing so.

- People who grew up in dysfunctional families, and honestly think that being treated like dirt is normal or inevitable.

- People who are hooked on the drama and enjoy the passion, excitement and adrenaline rush. If they get into a calm, respectful relationship with someone nice and even tempered, they get bored.

- People with really bad self-esteem or self image who think that this is genuinely what they deserve, or the best they can expect.

- Status seekers. They want a partner that the world sees as desirable and high status - the wealthy, powerful man, the hot woman, someone famous - and get stuck with the downsides that can come with someone who regards being powerful and wealthy (or really hot, or famous) as the most important part of their life.

- Fix-it-uppers. Either they figure they can take someone and reform them into the perfect SO, or they feel sorry for them, and want to help.  I've seen guys do this too - start dating a woman who was really needy and a complete mess, and then couldn't break up with her because she needed him so much.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: girlysprite on September 25, 2012, 03:40:39 AM
The problem I have seen with self-proclaimed nice guys is that they figure that they are 'nice', and he and his crush have similar interests, so they can't understand why their crush doesn't want a relationship. It's like they have a checklist in their head, and if they feel that they meet all the criteria, a relationship must occur!
I know a lot of guys who are ok as people, and share similar interests, but there are only a few that I would have considered as relationship material if I didn't have DH already.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: TurtleDove on September 25, 2012, 10:38:11 AM
I think men who say they are passed over because they are "too nice" are actively ignoring their actual character flaws, or are consistently seeking out people with whom they are not compatible.  It is a convenient way to make their romantic failures someone else's fault, all the time.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: mbbored on September 25, 2012, 10:54:45 AM
The problem I have seen with self-proclaimed nice guys is that they figure that they are 'nice', and he and his crush have similar interests, so they can't understand why their crush doesn't want a relationship. It's like they have a checklist in their head, and if they feel that they meet all the criteria, a relationship must occur!
I know a lot of guys who are ok as people, and share similar interests, but there are only a few that I would have considered as relationship material if I didn't have DH already.

I agree with this. It's like you met every item on their checklist so you must be in a relationship with them. If you don't want that, it can't be their fault, and since you are clearly the perfect woman, it's not your fault ever. Therefore, it must be the fault of those bad boys! They're keeping the two of you apart! If only it weren't for those bad boys, you would be safe in the arms of the perfect nice guy.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Auntie Mame on September 25, 2012, 03:01:51 PM
The problem I have seen with self-proclaimed nice guys is that they figure that they are 'nice', and he and his crush have similar interests, so they can't understand why their crush doesn't want a relationship. It's like they have a checklist in their head, and if they feel that they meet all the criteria, a relationship must occur!
I know a lot of guys who are ok as people, and share similar interests, but there are only a few that I would have considered as relationship material if I didn't have DH already.

I agree with this. It's like you met every item on their checklist so you must be in a relationship with them. If you don't want that, it can't be their fault, and since you are clearly the perfect woman, it's not your fault ever. Therefore, it must be the fault of those bad boys! They're keeping the two of you apart! If only it weren't for those bad boys, you would be safe in the arms of the perfect nice guy.

Or the mentality of "Hey, I'm a nice guy, she doesn't have the right to reject me!  Oh, she must be a female dog who only dates jerks, that's why she rejected a nice guy like me".  Ugh.  Not a day goes by that I am not grateful I met my BF.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Ceallach on September 26, 2012, 12:46:49 AM
What drew me to DH was that he was sweet and did not brag about how nice he was.  Still doesn't, and when he is complimented on it he shrugs, smiles and says "I try". 

The guys I've known who do say they're a Nice Guy make me think of folks who boast about how good they are in bed.

I agree.   Genuinely nice/good guys are too busy being nice/good to be bragging about how "nice" they are or whinging about girls they date.   Not that those other guys aren't necessarily "nice" too, but they've also got an element of self-absorption about them if they insist on going on about it.  It's not an attractive quality.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on September 26, 2012, 06:49:28 AM
What drew me to DH was that he was sweet and did not brag about how nice he was.  Still doesn't, and when he is complimented on it he shrugs, smiles and says "I try". 

The guys I've known who do say they're a Nice Guy make me think of folks who boast about how good they are in bed.

I agree.   Genuinely nice/good guys are too busy being nice/good to be bragging about how "nice" they are or whinging about girls they date.   Not that those other guys aren't necessarily "nice" too, but they've also got an element of self-absorption about them if they insist on going on about it.  It's not an attractive quality.

And that's just it too, at least in thinking of the one guy I know who always went on and on about what a nice guy he was.  He is incredibly self absorbed.  He always went on about what a great boyfriend he'd be and then once he got a girlfriend, talked about what a great boyfriend he was. *meanwhile the gf was telling me she was feeling suffocated* Then they got married and when we were around, he'd always say "You're happy, right?" to her.  The way he said it was like "You ARE happy, so just agree!"
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Danika on September 26, 2012, 12:06:41 PM
I still can't remember where I read the quote because it's been over 20 years, but I remember once reading something like "Oh, the plight of sensitive man - suffering so much for himself that he can feel nothing for others."
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: stargazer on September 26, 2012, 09:47:26 PM
Please tell me he's not also one of those self-described "Nice Guys" who complain that women aren't interested in him because they only go for jerks.

^^^ YES! The theme song of most of the emotionally abusive and manipulative men I've dated!

Men who say that are not nice guys.  They are closet jerks, emotionally manipulative, have no self esteem and have a very narrow definition of how a woman "should" behave.  Women won't put up with their nonsense so therefore all women are female dogs who only date jerks.

Often, but not always.  My DH used to say that to me when we first started dating, and it was more that was really into me and anxious to let me know he was a nice guy, no "" around it.  I had to break him of it a bit and explain why women would not normally take to a guy saying that - that is usually means the opposite.  He was a bit shocked, but he was also sheltered a bit and a big time geek who focused on his work and not social interactions as much until after we started dating.
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: icfrugal2 on October 09, 2012, 02:59:36 PM

And for those who've mostly met this kind while running or at the gym - they come in another flavor - the overweight slovenly type who thinks he should be dating a supermodel.  I had gone from 30 pounds underweight to right in the middle of my ideal weight range, while my ex had gone from 30 overweight to double his recommended weight.  He had the audacity to comment on my weight gain!
[/quote]

10/9/12

That is so funny, when I was 17 I dated this guy and I was a little chunky, looking back of course it was just nothing.

Anyway we broke up and 10 years later I contacted him, now at 27 I had lost weight, not that I had been fat before, and I was looking good.

So he asked me what I looked like, and I told him etc.

So he comes to pick me up for our date................................................What he had not told me is that he had gained, at least 150 pounds. LOL

He was my first love and we did go out for a while but it didn't work out. Not because of weight issues.

But I did love that he had to make sure that I looked good LOL
 
IC 
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: grannyclampettjr on October 26, 2012, 10:54:25 AM
Yeah I don't trust guys who say that.

It's a sketchy litmus test. When I first started dating my DH, he said that to me that "women don't like nice guys. They're only attracted to jerks." It set off all alarms in my head, but we'd known each other for years and so I took a chance dating him anyway. He's fantastic and we've been married nearly 10 years now. So there are some nice guys out there who subscribe to this too, but most jerks use the line to gain sympathy.

I've found that there are people (men and women) who are really nice, and make great partners/spouses when matched with the right person, but who have real trouble *finding* that right person. Some are shy or a bit awkward, or late social bloomers, some need someone who 'gets' them and their outlook on life. Some are simply unique people who fall outside what is considered mainstream and desirable in a partner in more external things, but are great in the more internal things (commitment, treating someone right, responsibility). Geeky girls and effeminate straight men, for example, can have a hard time on the dating scene.

Then there are the guys who *aren't* nice. They think they're such an amazing catch that women should be falling all over themselves to be with them, and when that doesn't happen (usually to one or more whopping flaws) it's obviously the fault of those witches.

And there's an intermediate stage. Guys who are reasonable nice guys, maybe with a few quirks. But they have bad dating skills, and scare off women who would actually be interested in the person behind it. So they get angry and disillusioned because they don't understand why they aren't succeeding.

I have a colleague who I think is drifting into the last category. He's a nice guy, and really wants a girlfriend, but I have a feeling he's scaring off women by being too intense and focussed on that goal. Plus, he has trouble grasping that while *he* knows he's not a creepy stalker dude, the women he's chatting up don't, and he has to adapt his style so he doesn't give that impression, even if the motives behind his behaviour are innocent.

Here's the deal...I'm a conventionally attractive, pleasant, responsible, intelligent, funny woman.  And I've had trouble finding the right one.  Not because there is something secretly wrong with me, but because it's hard for everybody.  If there is a trait that some people have that make it extra hard, and make them extra unattractive, it's the notion that it's easy for everybody else.   

The only person I know who had it easy was an ex bosses mother who was sitting in a diner with her girlfriend back in the 40s as a teenager, saw a gorgeous young man walk in the door, and said to her friend "that's the man I'm going to marry."  Fast forward to now...still happily married, and he's still gorgeous, with the most michevious, twinkly eyes I've ever seen. <3
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: TurtleDove on October 26, 2012, 11:14:13 AM
Here's the deal...I'm a conventionally attractive, pleasant, responsible, intelligent, funny woman.  And I've had trouble finding the right one.  Not because there is something secretly wrong with me, but because it's hard for everybody.  If there is a trait that some people have that make it extra hard, and make them extra unattractive, it's the notion that it's easy for everybody else.   

Good post, especially the bolded!  I am approaching 40, as are my high school and college friends.  Several of them lament that they have never married and will not likely ever have children and that some people are just so lucky.  While I am not diminishing their pain, several in our circle have lost spouses to death or divorce, or children to tragedy - far from "lucky."  It makes no sense to ever compare your struggles with anyone else's!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: Ceallach on November 01, 2012, 11:26:47 PM
Here's the deal...I'm a conventionally attractive, pleasant, responsible, intelligent, funny woman.  And I've had trouble finding the right one.  Not because there is something secretly wrong with me, but because it's hard for everybody.  If there is a trait that some people have that make it extra hard, and make them extra unattractive, it's the notion that it's easy for everybody else.   

The only person I know who had it easy was an ex bosses mother who was sitting in a diner with her girlfriend back in the 40s as a teenager, saw a gorgeous young man walk in the door, and said to her friend "that's the man I'm going to marry."  Fast forward to now...still happily married, and he's still gorgeous, with the most michevious, twinkly eyes I've ever seen. <3

I don't know if it's hard for everybody, I've known a lot of couples who just fall together seamlessly.   

In fact, I have to admit that a number of happy marriages I know of started off as "one night stands" between two friends or acquaintances who had otherwise never considered each in that way.    They hookup, become immediately inseparable, and the rest is history.  Honestly I'd never have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself on multiple occasions!   Whereas the people I know who obsessively date and put lots of effort into "playing the game" seem to really struggle. I wonder if it's something to do with being genuine and open when they're caught off guard, rather than being too caught up in the details of who exactly they're looking for.   I don't know.  All I know is I was introduced to my husband in a pub by mutual friends when I was 19 (nearly a decade ago) and we've been increasingly happy every year since then.  So I guess I probably had it easy in many ways too!

But I agree there are a lot of people who would like to be in relationships but aren't, and any type of negative attitude about it doesn't help matters.   It is hard for a lot of people.  I know many awesome people who are looking and just haven't met the right match yet.  I know one friend who has a giant chip on her shoulder about it which serves as an obstacle to any new prospects she does meet.  But there's no easy way to tell her that!
Title: Re: First Date Popcorn Hoarding? What do you think? more info 16 update pg 8, 10
Post by: girlysprite on November 09, 2012, 03:45:28 AM
Maybe it's harder when 'you're looking for it'. When you start building contacts with people with the sole purpose to build a relationship (and thus often end up breaking the contact if it doesn't work out) it wears you out faster, and puts a lot more strain on the budding contact. You don't want to waste too much time on something that doesn't work out, which means that you and the potential partner have to work much harder to impress the other.
Sadly, just 'stop dating' doesn't always work out either. Especially as people get older they meet fewer new people on a regular basis, and many of their age group are hooked up already, which decreases the chance of spontanious romantic contact.

So I can kind of understand that those in the active dating scene are frustrated at times about how hard it can be. I haven't even dated in that sense in my life before, and to be honest, I hope I never have to!