Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: mbbored on September 20, 2012, 12:06:38 PM

Title: Actually, you drive her crazy Update Pg 3
Post by: mbbored on September 20, 2012, 12:06:38 PM
I'm friends with two women: Linda and Jane. Linda is very outgoing and can be a bit abrasive, while Jane is very reserved and introverted. Linda manages to drive Jane up the wall, so Jane avoids spending time with her except in large group settings. Fortunately Jane realizes that this is her problem, not anybody else's, so she doesn't badmouth Linda and simply declines invitations that involve her in small groups.  Unfortunately, Linda thinks that the three of us are the three musketeers. For more than year, she's invited Jane and I out a couple times a month: lunch, coffee, happy hour, dinner at her place. Jane always says no politely, Linda pouts.

Now Linda has the "great" idea that she'll organize an activity, say happy hour, and then I invite Jane but don't tell her it's really Linda inviting her through me. Should I:

A) Tell her that if she wants to invite Jane she should do it herself.
B) Say that I really prefer one on one activities.
C) Explain that Jane doesn't enjoy hanging out with her.
D) Some other brilliant solution that I know E-Hell has.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Amara on September 20, 2012, 12:12:46 PM
A.

Stay out of it. Jane has her reasons, she is polite, she doesn't trash anyone. Linda is being over-the-top sneaky about this, and frankly, I wouldn't hang out with her either if this is her MO.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: rain on September 20, 2012, 12:13:50 PM
I vote for "A"

(and hope that someone else comes up "D")


Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: lowspark on September 20, 2012, 12:14:27 PM
A.

The fact that Linda is telling you to invite Jane without making it known that Linda is the organizer says a lot. She either already knows or suspects that Jane doesn't like her. If she already knows, then it's obnoxious of her to engage you in tricking Jane into spending time with her. If she just suspects, then this is a creepy way of testing Jane to find out if her suspicions are correct. Either way, it sure puts you in an awkward position. And that is not a nice thing for Linda to do.

I picked A because you should not get involved in this. It's between Linda and Jane and your getting in the middle will probably come to no good.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Moray on September 20, 2012, 12:15:38 PM
I'm friends with two women: Linda and Jane. Linda is very outgoing and can be a bit abrasive, while Jane is very reserved and introverted. Linda manages to drive Jane up the wall, so Jane avoids spending time with her except in large group settings. Fortunately Jane realizes that this is her problem, not anybody else's, so she doesn't badmouth Linda and simply declines invitations that involve her in small groups.  Unfortunately, Linda thinks that the three of us are the three musketeers. For more than year, she's invited Jane and I out a couple times a month: lunch, coffee, happy hour, dinner at her place. Jane always says no politely, Linda pouts.

Now Linda has the "great" idea that she'll organize an activity, say happy hour, and then I invite Jane but don't tell her it's really Linda inviting her through me. Should I:

A) Tell her that if she wants to invite Jane she should do it herself.
B) Say that I really prefer one on one activities.
C) Explain that Jane doesn't enjoy hanging out with her.
D) Some other brilliant solution that I know E-Hell has.

Definitely not C. That would be overstepping, and if I were Jane I'd be mortified if you did that.

I'd probably ask her why she'd want you to do that? When she says that she thinks Jane is avoiding her, I'd say A and then B.

This is between them and it wouldn't hurt to point out to Linda that it's weird and unfair to put you in the middle, especially if the intent is to "trick" Jane to coming out as a threesome.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Judah on September 20, 2012, 12:18:16 PM
A.

The fact that Linda is telling you to invite Jane without making it known that Linda is the organizer says a lot. She either already knows or suspects that Jane doesn't like her. If she already knows, then it's obnoxious of her to engage you in tricking Jane into spending time with her. If she just suspects, then this is a creepy way of testing Jane to find out if her suspicions are correct. Either way, it sure puts you in an awkward position. And that is not a nice thing for Linda to do.

I picked A because you should not get involved in this. It's between Linda and Jane and your getting in the middle will probably come to no good.

This.  Linda knows Jane doesn't want to hang out with her, or she wouldn't have asked you to get in the middle.  Don't let her put you in the middle. 
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: HonorH on September 20, 2012, 12:18:22 PM
Linda strikes me as being particularly thick-headed. She's one of those people who needs to be liked, I would guess, and thinks if she can just get Jane to hang around with her, Jane will suddenly realize that yes, she does like Linda.

Yeah, not gonna happen.

I'd go with A. Sooner or later, Linda will have to come to terms with the fact that Jane isn't charmed by her, at which point you can expect to get an earful. Stay out of it as much as you can.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: WillyNilly on September 20, 2012, 12:19:14 PM
A.

But I'd alo straight up ask "why?" so Linda is forced to say it outright. At which point I might gently say something about how everyone doesn't have to b friends with everyone, and how sometimes a person can respect and even sorta like another person but not like hanging out with them.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Hawkwatcher on September 20, 2012, 12:20:51 PM
This is another vote for A) for many of the reasons given by the other posters.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Adelaide on September 20, 2012, 12:23:45 PM
A.

I have had this happen to me. An ex-friend I gave The Cut Direct to almost managed to get one of our other friends to get me to go to dinner with the 5 of them, but the friend who was inviting me said that he felt weird about going behind my back. If I was ever tricked into showing up somewhere where Linda was I'd be furious with the person who invited me and left out that she was going to be there.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: bah12 on September 20, 2012, 12:38:27 PM
I also vote for A, this is Linda's activity and she needs to invite who she wants.

 But if you do decide to invite Jane then make it clear what the activity is:  Linda and I are going to happy hour and you are invited to join us if you wish.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Hmmmmm on September 20, 2012, 01:03:01 PM
I'm not sure I understand Linda's suggestion.  Does she acknowledge Jane turns down her invitations but accepts yours?  Doesn't that mean she knows Jane doesn't exactly enjoy her company? 

I'd either go with A or I'd tell Linda that you'll extend the invitation but you'll let Jane know it it is from her, not your event.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: BeagleMommy on September 20, 2012, 03:17:00 PM
Go with A.  I know, if I were Jane, I would be highly upset that someone got me to an event by avoiding telling me my nemesis would be there.  Linda needs to either ask Jane or be consigned to the fact that Jane just doesn't like her.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 20, 2012, 03:35:42 PM
Why does Linda think the three of you are the 3 musketeers if Jane has never accepted an invitation? If I were friends with Linda, I'd give a combination of A and... not quite B and C. "Linda, if you want to invite Jane you'll need to do it yourself, however, it's obvious Jane hasn't accepted any invitations in the last year, so I'm not sure why you keep doing it. Why isn't just the two of us enough?" Just that, no details about why Jane isn't accepting, just point out the obvious and how Linda's persistence isn't going to change anything.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: sourwolf on September 20, 2012, 03:48:38 PM
I agree with everyone else - A and stay out of it.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: still in va on September 20, 2012, 03:53:44 PM
Why does Linda think the three of you are the 3 musketeers if Jane has never accepted an invitation? If I were friends with Linda, I'd give a combination of A and... not quite B and C. "Linda, if you want to invite Jane you'll need to do it yourself, however, it's obvious Jane hasn't accepted any invitations in the last year, so I'm not sure why you keep doing it. Why isn't just the two of us enough?" Just that, no details about why Jane isn't accepting, just point out the obvious and how Linda's persistence isn't going to change anything.

it's possible that Linda wants to make all outings "all for one and one for all" because she's doesn't want the OP and Jane to get together without her.  they might be having fun that she's left out of. 

go with Option A.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: LazyDaisy on September 20, 2012, 04:10:58 PM
But there is a larger social group that apparently all three are a part of, and yet Linda is only zeroing in on Jane. There is no indication in the OP that Linda has a problem with mbbored having other friends or feeling left out. That's a bit of a leap to me.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: mbbored on September 20, 2012, 04:24:47 PM
Why does Linda think the three of you are the 3 musketeers if Jane has never accepted an invitation? If I were friends with Linda, I'd give a combination of A and... not quite B and C. "Linda, if you want to invite Jane you'll need to do it yourself, however, it's obvious Jane hasn't accepted any invitations in the last year, so I'm not sure why you keep doing it. Why isn't just the two of us enough?" Just that, no details about why Jane isn't accepting, just point out the obvious and how Linda's persistence isn't going to change anything.

it's possible that Linda wants to make all outings "all for one and one for all" because she's doesn't want the OP and Jane to get together without her.  they might be having fun that she's left out of. 

go with Option A.

I hadn't considered that perspective. We're all grad students at the same university, but Jane and I are labmates and in the same program. We spend at least 40 hours a week together as it is, but rarely socialize outside of that since we get more than enough together time. Honestly, I don't consider either woman to be among my closest friends, but Linda clearly feels otherwise, which I do feel a little guilty about.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: still in va on September 20, 2012, 07:25:35 PM
But there is a larger social group that apparently all three are a part of, and yet Linda is only zeroing in on Jane. There is no indication in the OP that Linda has a problem with mbbored having other friends or feeling left out. That's a bit of a leap to me.

i did state that it was possible.  i did not say that it was definite.  i don't feel that expressing my own opinion to be any kind of leap. 
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: JoyinVirginia on September 20, 2012, 07:49:40 PM
A, B, or E you invite Jane making clear Linda is where plans originated.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: rain on September 20, 2012, 08:04:07 PM

Honestly, I don't consider either woman to be among my closest friends, but Linda clearly feels otherwise, which I do feel a little guilty about.


??? Why do you feel even a little guilty ????
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: mbbored on September 20, 2012, 10:00:00 PM

Honestly, I don't consider either woman to be among my closest friends, but Linda clearly feels otherwise, which I do feel a little guilty about.


??? Why do you feel even a little guilty ????

It makes me feel as though there's an inequality in our relationship, but I can't change how close I feel to her.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: MariaE on September 20, 2012, 11:41:15 PM

Honestly, I don't consider either woman to be among my closest friends, but Linda clearly feels otherwise, which I do feel a little guilty about.


??? Why do you feel even a little guilty ????

It makes me feel as though there's an inequality in our relationship, but I can't change how close I feel to her.

Oh, I can understand that. I have a friend who considers me her best friend, but she's definitely not mine - not even close. I like her well enough, but that's about it. I feel guilty everytime she refers to me as her best friend, because I just can't give her the level of attention or affection a best friend "should".
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Ceallach on September 21, 2012, 12:33:13 AM
I agree with "A".   However, like others I also couldn't resist a puzzled "Why would I do that?" response to her suggestion in the first place.   After all, it's a strange suggestion to try to trick Jane into spending time with her! I would love to know how she explains that in her head as necessary or a good idea.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: CrochetFanatic on September 21, 2012, 02:48:23 AM
Gotta be "A".  I've been the victim of a social "bait and switch" (I think that's what I mean, but it's happened to me), and I did not appreciate it.  You don't have to let yourself be put in the middle.  At the very least, Jane would be upset with you.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: TootsNYC on September 21, 2012, 07:06:49 AM
. Honestly, I don't consider either woman to be among my closest friends, but Linda clearly feels otherwise, which I do feel a little guilty about.

I want to encourage you to stop feeling guilty about this..

Linda isn't automatically entitled to have friendships wherever she wants. You are completely entitled to be true to you rown idea of how close a friend you want to be with Linda.

Linda's a grownup--by now she's supposed to have figured out how to handle this.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: lowspark on September 21, 2012, 07:23:22 AM

Honestly, I don't consider either woman to be among my closest friends, but Linda clearly feels otherwise, which I do feel a little guilty about.


??? Why do you feel even a little guilty ????

It makes me feel as though there's an inequality in our relationship, but I can't change how close I feel to her.

OK, first thing you have to do is get over any guilt feelings you have. Guilt = you've done something wrong and you have not done anything wrong here. You cannot control how Linda feels and it's not your responsibility to. And you have your own feelings which you have a perfect right to.

Not only should you not feel bad that she wants to be closer friends with you, but in fact, I'd start pulling away from her. The whole idea of her wrangling you into a plot to trick Jane, thus putting you in the middle, is abhorent to me and I'd want to distance myself from her because who knows what trick she will pull on you if she feels the need.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: couchpotato on September 21, 2012, 11:19:06 AM
Now Linda has the "great" idea that she'll organize an activity, say happy hour, and then I invite Jane but don't tell her it's really Linda inviting her through me.

Frankly, I'd go ahead with Linda's suggestion, with one exception. I'd invite Jane to a happy hour and "accidentally" let it slip that Linda was the mastermind. That way Jane will be aware of how far Linda is willing to go. It sounds like Linda is determined to become BFFs with Jane whether she wants to or not, and I can't believe you are the only one she is willing to use to achieve her goal. If you outright refuse, Linda might move on to someone in the group who really wants to get Linda off *her* back and would be willing to sacrifice Jane for some peace. If Jane knows what Linda pulled with you, she could be more aware of potential other attempts.

Also, if you invite Jane out without Linda as a factor (as Linda wants you to) and she turns you down, it might help Linda accept Jane's rejection as less personal. You don't have to admit to Linda you slipped the guest list to Jane before her decline. Just my perspective.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: oogyda on September 24, 2012, 06:54:50 AM
A.

I'd also follow up with some questions as to why she would go to these lengths to trick Jane into spending time with her when it's obvious Jane just doesn't want to. 
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: Morticia on September 24, 2012, 09:29:08 AM
Is anyone else reminded of the Family Guy episode, where Brian finds out Quagmire doesn't like him?
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy
Post by: mbbored on September 30, 2012, 12:08:10 PM
Thanks for the advice y'all. I haven't updated, because I'm still reelling from the side Linda showed me and writing it down makes it seem unreal.

Anyways, for the event in question I went with option A and told Linda that it was her event to arrange and if she wanted to invite Jane, she needed to handle it.

However at that happy hour with just Linda and I, she started saying something racist. I cut her off and told her I was offended and to please change the topic. Her response: "Why? Are you one of them? You don't look mixed!" When I said that it was offensive regardless of my background, she teased me for being an overly sensitive, PC whiny baby. I put money for my drink on the table and walked away.

So, it looks like Jane isn't going to be the only one dodging all of Linda's invites from now on.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy Update Pg 3
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on September 30, 2012, 12:20:22 PM
Wow.  I’ve noticed that sometimes people seem to realize they’re getting on your nerves, and  for some reason this makes them want to reveal aspects of their personality they’ve previously kept under wraps.  Maybe they realize they’ve got nothing to lose at that point. 

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and to work things out, but it seems that once my hinky meter starts beeping, things go downhill quickly. 

Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy Update Pg 3
Post by: NyaChan on September 30, 2012, 12:29:40 PM
Well Linda's certainly shown herself to be a person to avoid.  Good for you for holding fast on your boundaries!
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy Update Pg 3
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on September 30, 2012, 01:30:07 PM
You handled that like a pro, I'd say.
Title: Re: Actually, you drive her crazy Update Pg 3
Post by: HonorH on September 30, 2012, 05:07:03 PM
Given Linda's MO, you might soon be getting an invitation from a friend you'll not want to accept . . .