Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Dating => Topic started by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2012, 10:45:34 AM

Title: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2012, 10:45:34 AM
Some BG: Dh and I love to wrestle. He tries to pin me down, I know some of his weak spots, its a lot of fun. We do this almost nightly. Its a huge stress reliever and we both enjoy it.

Cake Smashing, in the original thread, was called disrespectful, cruel and passive aggressive. I disagree with that, because I think that if both people want something, how can it be any of those things? This got me thinking about something that happened many years ago.

Dh and I were living in Texas and discussing the possibility of moving back to his hometown in DC.

His best friend of many many years, Ed, tells DH that they need a roommate very badly. He had just met and married someone in the last 6 months. This was their first place together, but she lost her job a little while back. The only problem is, he needs someone to move in NOW. Ed and wife lived in DC.

DH and I rush a plan together. He will quit his job and I will take time off my job. We will go to DC and find jobs. Then, I will go back to TX and pack up our place and bring DS. 

When we arrive at Ed's apartment, we are given a loft with its own bathroom. I don't know if a loft is the same everywhere, but in this situation, it was a bedroom without the privacy. One wall is open for the people in the living room to see. No privacy.

DH and I get started with the job searching and the apartment searching with some wrestling on our downtime. We also make fun of each other sometimes. In fact, the making fun of each other usually leads to the wrestling. Because we only had the one bedroom, we couldn't do all of the usual running after each other, so it was pretty tame.

Anyways, less then two weeks in, Ed's wife tells us that we need to leave. She thinks our relationship is disgusting and unhealthy and doesn't want to be near it. Ed left the apartment at the beginning of the conversation.

Dh and I were both pretty upset, and I would have loved to say a few things to her, but I had to fly into action to figure out what we were going to do.

For a long time, I have been upset with her for judging our relationship like that. I was upset that she thought she had the right to decide what a healthy relationship was for us. I was also upset Ed pressured us into moving, knew that we had turned our lives upside down, then kicked us out without warning. It could have ended very badly for us.

So, some of the reactions to the cake smashing thread made me think about this situation from long ago. I am wondering now if Ed's wife was right to dictate how a couple behaves with each other in her home. Were Dh and I wrong to assume that, because we were paying for the room, that we could use it as we wished?


Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: poundcake on October 02, 2012, 10:51:10 AM
I think the issue of when and how you were asked to leave is a separate etiquette one, but I can certainly see that extreme physicality like wrestling might be very disturbing to bystanders who didn't know. So often, there is a blurry line in that behavior between playful and genuinely aggressive. Also, your roommate's wife may have been on the unwilling end of wrestling or something and can't see it as just a fun thing you two do.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: NyaChan on October 02, 2012, 10:55:05 AM
I hate to say it because I know it left you in such a lurch, but as long as you weren't paying for time that you did not get to stay in the room, I think she was ok to express that she wanted you to leave and was uncomfortable.  That kind of activity is...I can't think of a good word here.  But if I saw someone getting physical with someone in an open room where I was watching and their bed was there, I'd feel like I was the unwilling viewer of someone else's foreplay.  It probably would have been better to forgo something like that when you didn't really have the privacy for it. 

ETA:  Of course there may not have been anything sexual in the interaction, but watching a man trying to pin down a woman while she is fighting/wrestling back, would still have made me a little uneasy unless of course it was explained to me that it was sports-like wrestling.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: #borecore on October 02, 2012, 11:00:33 AM
I'm not sure how to answer this because you're asking several very different questions.

I do think you can kick out roommates with notice if you disapprove of their conduct in your house. Especially if you're in a room without proper walls.

I assume wrestling is both noisy and obvious. I would not be cool with the disruption. Couldn't you have cooled it for a couple of weeks? BUT I also think it's possible she was bothered by one or more aspects of your relationship or your residence in her private home and wrestling was just the excuse or final straw for her.

And lastly, I do find grown people wrestling obnoxious. No matter whether it's on TV or in my house.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: WillyNilly on October 02, 2012, 11:03:39 AM
Well as I said in the cake smashing thread, I think its fine to do in private (and perhaps other places).  I think the same of something like wrestling.  Its 100% ok for two consenting adults to engage in wrestling (or countless other things) in privacy... but you two weren't being private.  I get it you didn't really have the option of privacy but that's not the point, the point is by doing your wrestling in front of other people, in their home, you were to an extent including them in it to a degree.  And the other people were not consenting to any level of inclusion.

She shouldn't have judged your relationship, but I think she was fine to be at odds with your lifestyle.  I think its on par to something like walking around naked.  In your own private home go for it.  In a roommates situation, you confine it to private areas.  If your bedroom isn't private then you wait until the roommates are out.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Zilla on October 02, 2012, 11:08:10 AM
They are the ones that are juvenile and need to grow up.  I have been married over 10 years and dh and I still wrestle. I love it when I can topple him over with him being twice my size.  ;D


Now if you were in a public park/restaurant/party and went into a full on floor wrestle, that might raise my eyebrow.  But in your home or a place with very close friends or family?  Nope.


Did they have the right to ask you leave because something you did bothered them?  Yes.  Not everyone will approve or like it and have to tolerate it.  It sounds like it's one of their hills to die on.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2012, 11:13:12 AM
I'm not sure how to answer this because you're asking several very different questions.

I do think you can kick out roommates with notice if you disapprove of their conduct in your house. Especially if you're in a room without proper walls.

I assume wrestling is both noisy and obvious. I would not be cool with the disruption. Couldn't you have cooled it for a couple of weeks? BUT I also think it's possible she was bothered by one or more aspects of your relationship or your residence in her private home and wrestling was just the excuse or final straw for her.

And lastly, I do find grown people wrestling obnoxious. No matter whether it's on TV or in my house.

It was going to be much more then a couple of weeks. It turned out to be less then two weeks, but the original plan was for over a year.

Ed had told Dh and I that the apartment was a 3 bedroom. Dh and I would pay for two of the bedrooms because of DS. When getting there, we realized that it wasn't a 3 bedroom. It was a 1 bedroom with a loft and a study. Both the loft and the study were open to the rest of the apartment. The loft was above the living room, but you could still see a lot of it from the living room.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Hmmmmm on October 02, 2012, 11:14:47 AM
I've never been around in home wrestling that is not loud or doesn't have the potential to damage furniture or people.  I don't let kids wrestle in my house for those reasons so I would have been uncomfortable with two adults behaving that way.

I do think she was out of line calling your behavior unhealthy.  My first course of action would have been to ask you not to wrestle in my home.

But I'm curious as to why you guys were spending your first two weeks there looking for an apartment if you guys were moving their to help this couple out with their rent. 
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: NyaChan on October 02, 2012, 11:17:18 AM
I don't know, having found that their friend had been less than forthcoming about the set up of the apartment, I would think they were hoping to find a better situation.  Who would call that a 3 bedroom apartment and then not explain that they were really just additional rooms, not closed bedrooms?  Though personally I would have asked for pictures and more information before moving in, this guy had to have been doing some sort of verbal dance around the fact that the two rooms Sioteh would be renting had no doors.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2012, 11:20:21 AM
I've never been around in home wrestling that is not loud or doesn't have the potential to damage furniture or people.  I don't let kids wrestle in my house for those reasons so I would have been uncomfortable with two adults behaving that way.

I do think she was out of line calling your behavior unhealthy.  My first course of action would have been to ask you not to wrestle in my home.

But I'm curious as to why you guys were spending your first two weeks there looking for an apartment if you guys were moving their to help this couple out with their rent.

It was mostly job searching, but I did do some apartment searching because it was obvious after the first week that it wasn't going to work out. I left it out because my post was already long and it wasn't important. During one of our conversations with them the first week, they mentioned that our cats could not come with us. Ed had told us that it was fine as long as we paid the extra for them, but apparently, he hadn't run that by his wife.

Also, they decided that they no longer wanted to give up the study that was suppose to be our DS's bedroom. While we could share a bedroom with our DS for a little while, he really does need his own bedroom.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: sourwolf on October 02, 2012, 11:22:22 AM
I'm not sure how to answer this because you're asking several very different questions.

I do think you can kick out roommates with notice if you disapprove of their conduct in your house. Especially if you're in a room without proper walls.

I assume wrestling is both noisy and obvious. I would not be cool with the disruption. Couldn't you have cooled it for a couple of weeks? BUT I also think it's possible she was bothered by one or more aspects of your relationship or your residence in her private home and wrestling was just the excuse or final straw for her.

And lastly, I do find grown people wrestling obnoxious. No matter whether it's on TV or in my house.

It was going to be much more then a couple of weeks. It turned out to be less then two weeks, but the original plan was for over a year.

Ed had told Dh and I that the apartment was a 3 bedroom. Dh and I would pay for two of the bedrooms because of DS. When getting there, we realized that it wasn't a 3 bedroom. It was a 1 bedroom with a loft and a study. Both the loft and the study were open to the rest of the apartment. The loft was above the living room, but you could still see a lot of it from the living room.

I think you dodged a bullet.  A year is a very long time to live with another couple when you have a son and no actual private space.  Personally I would have found the wrestling annoying so it looks like things worked out all around.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 02, 2012, 11:22:45 AM
DH and I get started with the job searching and the apartment searching with some wrestling on our downtime.

Why were you and your boyfriend looking for an apartment right away if the reason for moving to DC was to be the roommates of these people?
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: bah12 on October 02, 2012, 11:23:38 AM
I haven't read the other thread and do agree with you that in most cases, if the action is something that each member of the couple enjoys and wants and can do it privately (I think wedding cake smashing is actually ok when they both agree), then there's nothing wrong with it.

In your case, you were living in someone else's home and your bedroom didn't even have a door that you could close to wrestle in private.  I can see how someone would view this as an aggressive and even very intimate act and be uncomfortable that it was happening where they could witness. 

I do think that she had every right to ask you to leave her home, but I also think that if it were me, I'd talk to you about it first and either ask that you not wrestle in the home or at the least do it when no one is home (if I wasn't concerned about something being broken/damaged).  Before I just kicked you out.

That being said, I think her outward judgement of your relationship was rude.  She has every right to think that your relationship is disgusting and unhealthy, but there was no reason to say that to you.  She could have simply said "It makes me very uncomfortable to witness the wrestling and too uncomfortable to continue this living arrangement" and left it at that.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: NyaChan on October 02, 2012, 11:27:00 AM
With the new information, it sounds like the wife changed her mind about having someone live there with them or was unhappy with the situation and was looking for a way out. 
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2012, 11:29:44 AM
With the new information, it sounds like the wife changed her mind about having someone live there with them or was unhappy with the situation and was looking for a way out.

I think that Ed probably wasn't completely truthful with his wife or with us. I started getting that feeling immediately.

However, I still think she had a real problem with our relationship. She sounded genuinely disgusted when she was speaking to us.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: lady_disdain on October 02, 2012, 11:58:22 AM
I think she handled it very badly. In any roommate situation, telling someone to move out is the last option, not the first (unless we are talking about illegal activities). She should have told you two that she was uncomfortable with it and worked out a solution: keep wrestling down, only doing it when she is out, having a scheduled time, etc.  It is even worse when the two of you had radically changed your plans to help her out. You had basically given up all privacy so they could keep the apartment so it is not realistic that she wouldn't have any inconveniences. Asking about it would be a very uncomfortable conversation but necessary for her, so I would be ok with it ("yes, it is consensual and I even pin him down half the time") but that would be it.

Also, putting someone in a room with zero privacy is not a good idea, unless everyone knew about it and was ok with it. Specially a couple. Leaving out the wrestling, there are other couple activities that I wouldn't want to be exposed to but would hardly be fair to expect a couple to refrain from for a year.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: WillyNilly on October 02, 2012, 01:30:16 PM
The "my home" arguement is irrelevent in this instance. Sio and her partner were paying rent. That makes it their home as well.

Its not irrelevant.  Just because Sio & her partner were paying rent doesn't mean they get free reign to do anything they want.  Of course the other two don't either. 

It was everyone's home and all were paying and therefore all people in the home should get a say in what is and is not appropriate and acceptable behavior.  I would not under any circumstances pay to live in a  home where two adults openly engaged in regular public wrestling sessions.  Not in my home, in front of me, no way.  Now the way I maintain such a home is not by wielding an iron fist, it is by not living with anyone who has differing ideas then me.  And if I happened upon a situation where I was living with someone who wanted to wrestle in the home I would first approach them to try to work out some sort of agreement (closed doors, me making myself scarce at certain times of the day, etc).  Because if its my home I do get a say - perhaps not final say, but certainly an equal say.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: petal on October 02, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
I have to respectfully disagree with a few posts here.

for me, wrestling is kind of equal to PDA.  there is a time and place for it and if other people are able to see it then its not the right time or right place

I do think that you and your boyfriend were mislead about the living arrangements so it was probably best for you all that you got your own place
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Fleur on October 02, 2012, 01:48:18 PM


I think you dodged a bullet, OP. Whatever she thought of your wrestling, she had no business to cast aspersions on your relationship. The noise/convenience thing is a seperate issue, though I agree with PP that as you were paying rent, the situation was more complicated than if you had just been living in 'their' house. She was rude.

Signed,

Fleur, the girl who loves to wrestle with her boyfriend.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: guihong on October 02, 2012, 01:51:46 PM
DH and I get started with the job searching and the apartment searching with some wrestling on our downtime.

Why were you and your boyfriend looking for an apartment right away if the reason for moving to DC was to be the roommates of these people?

It sounds like moving to DC was already in the plan, when the roommate opportunity came up.

As for the original question, it sounds like it wasn't working out at all, wrestling or no.  I've wrestled before with SO's, but I can understand where someone might feel uncomfortable, as if watching PDA's.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Twirly on October 02, 2012, 02:06:49 PM
I agree that the wrestling sounds too PDA to be doing in public. However this wasn't in public, it was Sio's (albeit temporary) home that she and her DH were paying to live in so I think it's unreasonable to expect zero PDA. I've had slews of roommates over the years and it was always understood that when living with people you were going to be subjected to a little more PDA than you may be from your regular friends. Granted since frequenting Ehell it has become very apparent to me that I and my circle are far looser than most so I understand others may not have that perception.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Winterlight on October 02, 2012, 02:23:08 PM
With the new information, it sounds like the wife changed her mind about having someone live there with them or was unhappy with the situation and was looking for a way out.

I think that Ed probably wasn't completely truthful with his wife or with us. I started getting that feeling immediately.

However, I still think she had a real problem with our relationship. She sounded genuinely disgusted when she was speaking to us.

I think it could be both. Her husband may well have imposed you two on her and she didn't know how or wasn't able to say "No." And she was really bothered by the wrestling/teasing since it was happening where she could see it. 
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Twik on October 02, 2012, 03:03:50 PM
However, I still think she had a real problem with our relationship. She sounded genuinely disgusted when she was speaking to us.

Well, that's the downside of sharing living quarters with another couple. You are very likely to learn things about each other you would prefer not to know.

I'm not entirely sure what is meant by "wrestling" here, so how offended she was entitled to be is a moot point.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Sharnita on October 02, 2012, 04:43:58 PM
By "teasing" do you mean playful insults?  That combined with the wrestling could make her feel like she is witnessing something that is almost abusive, physically and verbally.  If she feels that way then I think it is understandable for her to decide she can't tolerate it in her home.  She might even feel she needs to explain why, although it sounds like her explanation was unkind to say the least. 

OP, you know that some of what you have explained about your relationship with your partner regarding rules and expectations has received criticism even here.  There are a lot of people who, for various reasons, don't understand/feel comfortable/whatever and decide to let you know - and they are not living in close proximity and seeing it first hand. While I don't think it is our business I feel that way at least in part because you have the space to conduct your life they way you choose, under your own roof.  That gives all of us space to be tolerant of whatever differences we might have.  Sharing living space with anyone is difficult and the more different they are in certain key areas the more challenging it might be.  While it isn't always a problem it was in this case.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 02, 2012, 06:51:09 PM
Thanks for the input, everyone. 

I have been upset about it for so long. Its nice to get everyone elses input on the situation.

I have never equated our wrestling to PDA. There is nothing sexual about it. DS even joins in sometimes.

It did turn out for the best though. Our family is too big to be sharing an apartment and there was no way that we were going to leave our cats behind. There is no apartment in the world that could get me to do that.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: WillyNilly on October 02, 2012, 07:03:24 PM
It does sound like it was a blessing is disguise  :D
It sounds like regardless of the size of the place, you and they were just really different people not suited to sharing home space.


I have never equated our wrestling to PDA. There is nothing sexual about it. DS even joins in sometimes.


PDA = Public Displays of Affection
They don't have to be sexual to be PDA's.  Many people are uncomfortable with all sorts of physical affection or really even any displays of affection at all.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Allyson on October 02, 2012, 08:37:50 PM
I would be surprised about people being as worried about PDA in a roommate type situation than with, say, hanging out with friends. To me if you're in your own home, the rules are a little looser. Wrestling wouldn't tweak my radar as a weird thing, personally. So I don't think you were rude to do it in the situation you were in.

She wasn't totally out of line to be bothered by it--there are lots of things I'd not be comfortable with from roommates. But, I really think she could've dealt with it differently. Talked to you about it--tried to explain what it was that bothered her. If she thought it was abusive, you could've cleared that up, and if it was just that she didn't like to see that kind of thing, you guys could've tried to negotiate. 
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: FauxFoodist on October 02, 2012, 08:41:25 PM
This might be an odd question, but what exactly is couples wrestling?  I can't quite picture it in my head since I'd imagine it doesn't involve the kind of wrestling done on TV.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Ceallach on October 02, 2012, 09:10:43 PM
I do not think that wrestling is appropriate activity when you are a houseguest in somebody's home and can understand why you were asked to leave.   There is potential for something to get broken or damaged, or for the people involved to be making excessive noise.   Basically, it's just not the way one should behave as a houseguest.  It lacks decorum.   Rough-housing is just outside of the scope of what's acceptable as a visitor, unless you are in a situation where your hosts also want to engage in that type of activity or where it's encouraged in some way. 

However, I do think it's perfectly fine for couples to engage in that type of activity in their own home or outdoors even.   DH and I don't wrestle, but then again I'm not somebody who wrestled with my siblings as a child either so it would be weird for me to find wrestling a remotely interesting or pleasant pastime.   It's just not for me.  :D    Her judgment of your relationship as disgusting was incredibly rude.   Her reasons for wanting you to leave were not.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: cjeanies on October 02, 2012, 09:13:21 PM
I am just so totally stuck on the fact that they expected a couple to share a not-private bedroom for an extended period of time.  That is crazy.  How in the world did they think that was going to work?  They get a private bedroom where their private life stays private and put you in a living space that is not private and then feel free to judge?  That is not right.  Was the plan for them to ignore other activities as long as they approved?  I just do not get their thinking on this.  I think they were rude and sneaky to pull a bait and switch.  And I think she was rude by being condescending about you relationship while she was telling you to leave, when they were the ones that had asked you to come in the first place.  She should have just said sorry, it wasn't working out.  What kind of people do this? 

I mean, I guess to go back to your original question, if you were sharing an apartment the way people normally do where you had your own room, it would be rude to be so loud that they can still hear you over music or something, but that is not    the situation you were in.  They put you in that situation, what in the world did they expect.  I'm baffled by them.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: AustenFan on October 02, 2012, 09:19:03 PM
I think that wrestling in the presence of other people is odd, but don't think kicking you out with no notice was fair.

IMO the husband should have talked to your husband, sort of a "so, can we set a firm move out date and please stop the wrestling...it makes us uncomfortable."
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: kareng57 on October 02, 2012, 09:20:05 PM
Yes, I do think that you were wrong in assuming that, if you were sharing in the rent, you could do anything you liked there.

It sounds as though it would definitely not have been a workable arrangement over the long-term, so it's probably best that it was terminated when it was.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Miss Unleaded on October 03, 2012, 03:05:01 AM
I am just so totally stuck on the fact that they expected a couple to share a not-private bedroom for an extended period of time.  That is crazy.  How in the world did they think that was going to work?  They get a private bedroom where their private life stays private and put you in a living space that is not private and then feel free to judge?  That is not right.  Was the plan for them to ignore other activities as long as they approved?  I just do not get their thinking on this.  I think they were rude and sneaky to pull a bait and switch.  And I think she was rude by being condescending about you relationship while she was telling you to leave, when they were the ones that had asked you to come in the first place.  She should have just said sorry, it wasn't working out.  What kind of people do this? 

I mean, I guess to go back to your original question, if you were sharing an apartment the way people normally do where you had your own room, it would be rude to be so loud that they can still hear you over music or something, but that is not    the situation you were in.  They put you in that situation, what in the world did they expect.  I'm baffled by them.

Pretty much what I was thinking.  They forced you into a situation where you had no privacy and then judged you when they observed you doing (non sexual) things that couples do in private.  And then kicked you out with no notice.

I think they were totally out of line.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: LifeOnPluto on October 03, 2012, 05:52:19 AM
I think Ed's wife was rude. Here's why:

1) Whilst your bedroom was not technically private (in the sense that other people could see you), it was still YOUR living space; your personal quarters. I think in that scenario, Ed and his wife should have maintained a "polite fiction" and pretended that your bedroom was truly private and that no one could see what was going on.

2) If they were truly bothered by the wrestling, they should have given you "fair warning" that they'd like you to stop. Not kicked you out right away.

3) The comments made by Ed's wife were unnecessarily judgmental. All she had to say was "Guys, I'm really not comfortable with the wrestling." Not disparage the OP's entire relationship.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Two Ravens on October 03, 2012, 06:07:24 AM
Are we sure this was just about the wrestling? As I recall from previous threads, the OP and her boyfriend have quite the nontraditional relationship. It's possible that the friend didn't realize the extent of this, and when she discovered it, it made her uncomfortable.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: guihong on October 03, 2012, 06:29:15 AM
This might be an odd question, but what exactly is couples wrestling?  I can't quite picture it in my head since I'd imagine it doesn't involve the kind of wrestling done on TV.

It's not TV wrestling; it's more chasing around, pinning down, rolling around, that kind of thing. 
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: JenJay on October 03, 2012, 06:29:39 AM
My relationship with my DH is just like yours and we have so much fun! We wrestle, "zing" each other, etc. all the time. It's a very important part of our friendship, which in turn is a very important part of why we've been (mostly) happily married for 20 years (and what got us through the "mostly" times).

I can appreciate that not everyone enjoys a rambunctious physical relationship... but to call it sick and kick you out with no notice? No.

Edited to add - It would really tick me off if someone sprung a loft on me and then complained that they could see and hear the non-sexual stuff that went on in my "bedroom". Well gee, maybe YOU should have thought of that before you pulled this stunt!
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Zilla on October 03, 2012, 08:10:17 AM
This might be an odd question, but what exactly is couples wrestling?  I can't quite picture it in my head since I'd imagine it doesn't involve the kind of wrestling done on TV.

It's not TV wrestling; it's more chasing around, pinning down, rolling around, that kind of thing.


Yep, fun and albeit a little childish.  But hey I don't care.  My kids and dog jump in on the fun as well. :D
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Sharnita on October 03, 2012, 08:29:21 AM
Two Ravens, I was thinking along the same lines although the wrestling could be a factor and it might even be what she mentioned.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Cami on October 03, 2012, 09:06:58 AM
By "teasing" do you mean playful insults?  That combined with the wrestling could make her feel like she is witnessing something that is almost abusive, physically and verbally.  If she feels that way then I think it is understandable for her to decide she can't tolerate it in her home.  She might even feel she needs to explain why, although it sounds like her explanation was unkind to say the least. 


I was wondering too if the wife had a feeling she was witnessing something abusive or at least something that felt disturbingly like abuse or potential abuse to her? Or just so uncomfortable she couldn't live with it?

I wonder this because of two reasons.

1. My father liked to "playfullly insult" and "tease" my mother. It was only much later that I realized his "playfulness" masked real derogatory and denigrating comments that over time, sapped her self esteem and confidence. To this day, although I now know that there's teasing and then there's teasing, I am not terribly comfortable around couples who behave like that on a regular or constant basis because in the back of my mind, I wonder what the hidden agenda is behind the playfulness. I fully understand that is MY issue, but I'd have a hard time living with a couple like that, especially if the playful insults escalated to wrestling and pinning each other down. There is also a part of me that would wonder if the wrestling and pinning might someday escalate to actual physical abuse. It would feel like I was now living with ticking timebombs.

2. Reading your story made me remember an incident from long ago. A friend freaked out and physically attacked another friend's boyfriend because of her own life experiences that colored what she was seeing in a very dark light. She attacked him when boyfriend came up behind his girlfriend, playfully (and lightly) grabbed girlfriend by the back of the neck and bent her backwards -- intending to dip her for a kiss. We were all laughing because WE could see that he was holding her lightly (and had his other arm around her waist supporting her) and WE could see both of them laughing. The friend who attacked him could not see what was really happening because the movement triggered a horrible memory of the time she was attacked and raped -- which started by some guy coming up behind her, grabbing her by the neck in a strangling move and pushing her down to the ground. She couldn't see the reality because the apparent activity was triggering. She was understandably upset and embarrassed when the dust settled and then distraught when she, very slowly and haltingly, told us why she'd reacted that way. And the boyfriend never once grabbed his girlfriend like that in the other woman's presence because it would be unkind to set off someone's trauma trigger.

Which is a long way of saying that perhaps you set off this woman's triggers and she was "unkind" because she was too upset internally to guard her tongue.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Twik on October 03, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
I agree with Cami - the problem with the "mock hostile" style of relating is that outsiders may not pick up on the "mock". The other couple may have really thought they were seeing an abusive relationship, rather than people playing around.

Of course, in that case, it might have been better to offer assistance rather than simply kicking both of you out.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 03, 2012, 06:28:08 PM
Are we sure this was just about the wrestling? As I recall from previous threads, the OP and her boyfriend have quite the nontraditional relationship. It's possible that the friend didn't realize the extent of this, and when she discovered it, it made her uncomfortable.

He is my DH, not my boyfriend.

We didn't really discuss our relationship with them. The only time when there was ever a question was when Ed wanted DH to go with him to hang out with some mutual friends. DH couldn't go because of me. Ed didn't like that too much.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Sharnita on October 03, 2012, 06:29:17 PM
Are we sure this was just about the wrestling? As I recall from previous threads, the OP and her boyfriend have quite the nontraditional relationship. It's possible that the friend didn't realize the extent of this, and when she discovered it, it made her uncomfortable.

He is my DH, not my boyfriend.

We didn't really discuss our relationship with them. The only time when there was ever a question was when Ed wanted DH to go with him to hang out with some mutual friends. DH couldn't go because of me. Ed didn't like that too much.

I think there was probably a certain amount that was picked up through observation.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 03, 2012, 06:30:55 PM
Are we sure this was just about the wrestling? As I recall from previous threads, the OP and her boyfriend have quite the nontraditional relationship. It's possible that the friend didn't realize the extent of this, and when she discovered it, it made her uncomfortable.

He is my DH, not my boyfriend.

We didn't really discuss our relationship with them. The only time when there was ever a question was when Ed wanted DH to go with him to hang out with some mutual friends. DH couldn't go because of me. Ed didn't like that too much.

I think there was probably a certain amount that was picked up through observation.

You are probably right. I probably just don't realize it.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 03, 2012, 06:32:04 PM
He is my DH, not my boyfriend.

Sounds like congratulations are in order; when did you get married?
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Shoo on October 03, 2012, 07:14:55 PM
I'm wondering if they could HEAR you wrestling, but didn't know you were wrestling and thought you were.....you know. 
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: petal on October 03, 2012, 07:32:24 PM
snip

He is my DH, not my boyfriend.

snip



congratulations.  didnt realise you'd finally gotten  married
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: JenJay on October 03, 2012, 07:36:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe OP and her DH are not in possession of a marriage license but the nature of their relationship is such that they consider themselves married and refer to each other as such.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: cass2591 on October 03, 2012, 07:42:41 PM
He is my DH, not my boyfriend.

Sounds like congratulations are in order; when did you get married?

For the life of me I don't understand the snide interest in the OP's definition of her relationship, so knock it off. This has been brought up before, actually I asked her once, but only because I'm nosy.  I don't care and I don't understand why you do. Plenty of people live together before marriage and they refer to themselves as husband and wife. This is such a non issue that I strongly suggest you don't bring  it up again.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Wonderflonium on October 03, 2012, 07:50:28 PM
I'm not sure why you are assigning the worst possible motive to me. When the subject has come up before, the OP has said that they are not married, she just considers him her husband. Because of the way she flat-out said, "He's my DH, not my boyfriend," I thought they had actually gotten married. Usually, when people get married, others offer congratulations. That's all that was going on.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: FauxFoodist on October 03, 2012, 07:58:46 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe OP and her DH are not in possession of a marriage license but the nature of their relationship is such that they consider themselves married and refer to each other as such.

That's what I thought, too, but, frankly, I don't care if Sio is married legally or not.  For the concerns of this forum, she says she's married, so she is.  I've known gay couples who weren't legally married, either, who refer to their SOs as DH or DW; don't care about those fine points, either.  Sio posts often enough in this forum that she's referred to her SO as DH for awhile now (several months, at least); that's good enough for me.

I'm not sure why you are assigning the worst possible motive to me. When the subject has come up before, the OP has said that they are not married, she just considers him her husband. Because of the way she flat-out said, "He's my DH, not my boyfriend," I thought they had actually gotten married. Usually, when people get married, others offer congratulations. That's all that was going on.

I didn't think you meant anything bad, either, Wonderflonium.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Bexx27 on October 03, 2012, 08:04:10 PM
He is my DH, not my boyfriend.

Sounds like congratulations are in order; when did you get married?

For the life of me I don't understand the snide interest in the OP's definition of her relationship, so knock it off. This has been brought up before, actually I asked her once, but only because I'm nosy.  I don't care and I don't understand why you do. Plenty of people live together before marriage and they refer to themselves as husband and wife. This is such a non issue that I strongly suggest you don't bring  it up again.

I don't understand why Wonderflonium is being chastised for offering congratulations. Sio said he is her DH, not her boyfriend, so it's reasonable to assume she means they've gotten married. If they didn't get married and Sio is just objecting to the term "boyfriend," it seems that she is the one making an issue of relationship terminology.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: JenJay on October 03, 2012, 08:04:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe OP and her DH are not in possession of a marriage license but the nature of their relationship is such that they consider themselves married and refer to each other as such.

That's what I thought, too, but, frankly, I don't care if Sio is married legally or not.  For the concerns of this forum, she says she's married, so she is.  I've known gay couples who weren't legally married, either, who refer to their SOs as DH or DW; don't care about those fine points, either.  Sio posts often enough in this forum that she's referred to her SO as DH for awhile now (several months, at least); that's good enough for me.

It doesn't matter to me, either, I was just trying to clear up the confusion before the thread derailed into 3 pages of either "Congrats, Sio!" or the marriage debate. DH and I are "wrestlers" so I'm very interested in this topic staying on track and unlocked.  ;)
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: cass2591 on October 03, 2012, 08:06:38 PM
Why do you care if they're married or not? And I'm "assigning" this to you because you are the most recent poster to question her and it was reported. And yes, I think your motives are to harass her over it and as I said, do not do it again unless you don't mind being banned.

Don't be cloy coy because it will not fly. Oops. Typo. Thanks to the poster who pointed that out.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: cass2591 on October 03, 2012, 08:12:02 PM
Bexx27-I'm not an idiot and can read between the lines. So stop it. Anybody else who makes snotty comments about this will be banned.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Amava on October 03, 2012, 08:14:31 PM
I don't like playfighting, verbally or physically, and I rather not witness it; and I would certainly not want it in my house.

BUT I would never dream of asking a couple to come live in my house if I didn't know them well enough to know whether their habits were compatible with what I do and do not want to see. And I would *certainly* not pull a bait-and-switch on someone, like that couple did to you, asking them to come share my house and then only offering them a bedroom with no privacy!

Who does that? How in the world did they think that was going to work out?
Heck, even with a completely "compatible" couple I would not imagine that would work out, giving them no privacy at all! Not even with a /single/ person, I think... Everyone needs a bit of privacy once in a while! 

Edited to add: so I think that this couple was more in the wrong than you, and I also think they could have worded their reasons for no longer wanting you to live with them more tactfully.
Also, just like some other posters have said, I think they could have spoken to you about the issue first to ask whether you were willing to tone it down.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Iris on October 03, 2012, 08:33:08 PM
In general I would feel very uncomfortable around a couple who expressed themselves to each other as you describe for reasons similar to those Cami suggested, but that's my own issue. I would go so far as to say that wrestling with your DH and DS, while certainly fine if you are all comfortable with it, is best saved for the privacy of your own home.

BUT really, this WAS the privacy of your own home. I don't understand someone who asks - as a favour mind you - to come and live with them, knowing that as a couple they would have *zero* privacy, and then objects to being exposed to their private behaviour. This whole situation just shows Ed and his wife in a very unflattering light and I hope that you are no longer friends with them.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Raintree on October 03, 2012, 10:43:14 PM
I don't think the behaviour is unhealthy or weird at all, but I still wouldn't wish to have it going on in front of me. Mostly because (from the sounds of it) it's very boisterous and loud and I like peace and quiet. Also I don't really like to be privvy to another couple's intimacy. Although the OP has said she doesn't consider it "intimate" or PDA, I think others might see it that way.

The fact that the non-private loft was sprung on them as opposed to a private bedroom maybe should have been discussed as a separate issue, but I think until different living arrangements could be arranged, the OP and her hubby could have held off until they once again had somewhere private to do this.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 04, 2012, 08:38:30 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe OP and her DH are not in possession of a marriage license but the nature of their relationship is such that they consider themselves married and refer to each other as such.

My Dh and I are considered married by the law. Texas state law recognizes common law marriage as long as certain criteria is met. Virginia state law recognizes common law marriage as long as it was initially created in a state that recognizes it.

Its good enough for the IRS, our employers, our insurance providers and ourselves.

I hope I am not coming across as snarky, but this is something that I get questioned about fairly often.

I think it is very rude for posters to continue to call him my BF when I have repeatedly called him my DH. I don't see why it matters to anyone what our relationship is or isn't.

JenJay, yours was the easiest for me to quote, but my post was not directed at only you.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: NyaChan on October 04, 2012, 08:44:32 PM
Sio, apologies if you already answered this, but did you have any contact with these people after they did this to you?  What did Ed do as you guys packed up to leave?
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SiotehCat on October 04, 2012, 08:48:49 PM
Sio, apologies if you already answered this, but did you have any contact with these people after they did this to you?  What did Ed do as you guys packed up to leave?

This was about 6 years ago. Dh spoke to Ed, for the first time since then, a few months ago.

Ed contacted Dh to catch up. They just discussed what they had been up to the last 6 years. Dh told Ed that he really wanted to keep in touch. Ed agreed. They haven't spoken since.

Ed and his wife have had some sad things happen in their lives. I do feel bad for them.

DH always thinks back fondly of Ed. He was really sad when all this happened.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Zilla on October 04, 2012, 08:54:25 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe OP and her DH are not in possession of a marriage license but the nature of their relationship is such that they consider themselves married and refer to each other as such.

My Dh and I are considered married by the law. Texas state law recognizes common law marriage as long as certain criteria is met. Virginia state law recognizes common law marriage as long as it was initially created in a state that recognizes it.

Its good enough for the IRS, our employers, our insurance providers and ourselves.

I hope I am not coming across as snarky, but this is something that I get questioned about fairly often.

I think it is very rude for posters to continue to call him my BF when I have repeatedly called him my DH. I don't see why it matters to anyone what our relationship is or isn't.

JenJay, yours was the easiest for me to quote, but my post was not directed at only you.


I can't speak for everyone here but I do remember you were the one that said you weren't married hence the confusion at times.  And a paper stating that you are in a common law marriage from Texas doesn't matter, you call him your dh and that's that.  Sorry you had to get defensive!
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: marcel on October 04, 2012, 09:03:02 PM
The "my home" arguement is irrelevent in this instance. Sio and her partner were paying rent. That makes it their home as well.

Its not irrelevant.  Just because Sio & her partner were paying rent doesn't mean they get free reign to do anything they want.  Of course the other two don't either. 
It may be a part of different culture, or even different laws, however if I pay rent for a place here, then that is my home, and nobody else has anything to say about it. If they were wrestling in their own room, then Sio and her husband were wrestling in their own home, and not Ed's home.

Ed and his wife had created a situation (by misrepresenting the living conditions to Sio and her husband) where there was no privacy for Sio and here husband. If you create a situation like that, you should not start complaining if you get to see some of the private live of the person you created the situation for.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: JenJay on October 04, 2012, 09:42:22 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe OP and her DH are not in possession of a marriage license but the nature of their relationship is such that they consider themselves married and refer to each other as such.

My Dh and I are considered married by the law. Texas state law recognizes common law marriage as long as certain criteria is met. Virginia state law recognizes common law marriage as long as it was initially created in a state that recognizes it.

Its good enough for the IRS, our employers, our insurance providers and ourselves.

I hope I am not coming across as snarky, but this is something that I get questioned about fairly often.

I think it is very rude for posters to continue to call him my BF when I have repeatedly called him my DH. I don't see why it matters to anyone what our relationship is or isn't.

JenJay, yours was the easiest for me to quote, but my post was not directed at only you.

No worries, I completely support you! My intent was to point out that your status hadn't recently changed so we could get back on topic, not to pick at the technicality of your marriage.  :)
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: WillyNilly on October 04, 2012, 11:20:32 PM
The "my home" arguement is irrelevent in this instance. Sio and her partner were paying rent. That makes it their home as well.

Its not irrelevant.  Just because Sio & her partner were paying rent doesn't mean they get free reign to do anything they want.  Of course the other two don't either. 
It may be a part of different culture, or even different laws, however if I pay rent for a place here, then that is my home, and nobody else has anything to say about it. If they were wrestling in their own room, then Sio and her husband were wrestling in their own home, and not Ed's home.

Well absolutely i agree with the first half - it was Sio & her DH's home.  Absolutely, no debate.
But it absolutely was also Ed & his wife's home as well.  And I really don't see how that is up for debate.

So while it was each of their homes, it was each other's home too; it was a shared home.  And a shared home is not the same as a private home.

Ed and his wife had created a situation (by misrepresenting the living conditions to Sio and her husband) where there was no privacy for Sio and here husband. If you create a situation like that, you should not start complaining if you get to see some of the private live of the person you created the situation for.

I don't disagree Ed & his wife had misrepresented the living conditions to Sio and her DH, and created the whole situation.

And I certainly this Ed's wife went about things in the absolute wrong way.

But she was totally within her rights to not be comfortable sharing her home with a couple she felt were different enough in their lifestyle as to make her uncomfortable in her own home.  Yes Sio & her DH lived there, but so did Ed's wife.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Rohanna on October 05, 2012, 12:11:16 AM
Maybe her vehement reaction was because something in the OP's relationship was a "trigger". I know that your relationship works for you, but to spark such a reaction from someone so quickly would leave me introspective and wondering how my husband and I were portraying ourselves to others. Sometimes the politest thing for a couple to do is to keep the personal banter and behaviours private- and I feel that in a shared living situation, privacy and decorum are important- especially at the beginning. Once you learn each others boundaries a little better- then you can loosen up, but when you first move into a room-mate situation, particularly a less than ideal one like described in the OP- one's "company" behaviour should be used while everyone settles in.

However- I think there could have been better communication on both sides. They needed to give more notice, or speak up before what was bothering her/them got to the point she blew up at you. Waiting until you can't take it anymore and then flipping out isn't really a mature or polite way to handle a housemate issue. You probably should have given notice that things weren't going to work as they were, privacy wise. It sounds like everything happened too quickly without being thought out, and it came to a head badly.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: bonyk on October 14, 2012, 07:42:00 PM
The wrestling would have driven me bananas, but they should have asked you to stop (or at least dial it back) before they tossed you.  Probably a blessing in disguise, though.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: mbbored on October 20, 2012, 11:43:16 AM
The wrestling would make me uncomfortable, same as P.D.A. But, I choose not to live with couples and if I did, I wouldn't ask them to live in a room without a door. And if I did make the above choices, the polite choice would be to ask them to tone it down or suggest that it isn't a good fit and they find a new place.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: grannyclampettjr on October 26, 2012, 11:00:40 AM
Eh, I'd have problems with people roughhousing around me all the time, for a couple of reasons.

One is that I don't like to be around constant sudden movements even if you are not coming for me.  Don't like pillow fights, spitball fights or food fights.  Don't like malls and other crowded places where people are milling about and can come at me from any direction.  I guess it's a sensory issue.

The other is that I believe that when you are sharing close quarters one must be on better behavior, rather than everybody having to put up with everybody elses quirks.  The quirks must be suppressed as much as possible or taken elsewhere. 

If she did not have any intrusive personality traits or behaviors that you had to put up with in turn then you are making her do all the "putting up with".  Know what I mean?
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: DavidH on October 26, 2012, 11:36:19 AM
Whether or not anyone else wrestles with their SO isn't really the point, if they are both freely consenting to the behavior it's their own decision.  I can understand not wanting to watch, and if it were occurring in a public space, the living room, dining room, kitchen, the it is certainly reasonable for the roommate to object to their choice of location.  On the other hand they were doing it in what the roommate represented to them as their bedroom.  I think it is rude to peek into your roommates bedroom and set rules around what they can and can't do there.  Dictating behavior in the bedroom is very close to saying that your roomates scrabble moves are not the ones you approve of so they must leave.

If they felt they had to object, then at the least they could have said that the wrestling disturbed them and could they avoid doing it while they were around.  If that weren't sufficient for them, then they could have asked them to avoid it until they could find another place to live, which is still better than kicking them out abruptly. 

Telling another couple that their relationship is unhealthy and disgusts you is, I think, always rude.  Even if you feel that your disgust is justified, it's still rude to tell someone that.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: Mental Magpie on October 29, 2012, 07:37:21 PM
Whether or not anyone else wrestles with their SO isn't really the point, if they are both freely consenting to the behavior it's their own decision.  I can understand not wanting to watch, and if it were occurring in a public space, the living room, dining room, kitchen, the it is certainly reasonable for the roommate to object to their choice of location.  On the other hand they were doing it in what the roommate represented to them as their bedroom.  I think it is rude to peek into your roommates bedroom and set rules around what they can and can't do there.  Dictating behavior in the bedroom is very close to saying that your roomates scrabble moves are not the ones you approve of so they must leave.

If they felt they had to object, then at the least they could have said that the wrestling disturbed them and could they avoid doing it while they were around.  If that weren't sufficient for them, then they could have asked them to avoid it until they could find another place to live, which is still better than kicking them out abruptly. 

Telling another couple that their relationship is unhealthy and disgusts you is, I think, always rude.  Even if you feel that your disgust is justified, it's still rude to tell someone that.

I agree with absolutely every point you've made.
Title: Re: S/O Cake Smashing. When a couple wrestles.
Post by: SpikeMichigan on November 12, 2012, 10:22:36 AM


   If she'd calmly and politely asked you to lay off the wrestling, as it made her uncomfortable, than it would be fair enough - I can see how someone in that situation might be a bit put off - though would it have been better for her to join in? That would be funny to see...

 The way she called you and your relationship disgusting was incredibly judgemental and totally uncalled for. In my mind that level of rudeness and vileness massively trumps any etiquette transgressions you made with your sort-of PDA. She was the rude one, I hope you never have to share living space with someone like that again.