Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 05:32:24 PM

Title: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 05:32:24 PM
So my old flatmate who had to move back home has indicated she is moving back to my area for the summer and has asked if she can have her old room back. It just simply isn't going to work for a number of reasons but the main one being I think she would drive the couple I have here now absolutely spare. They are pretty quiet and reserved and she is kind of flighty and pretty full on. I can't however point this out to her and all the other reasons sound a bit lame like "It would just be too hectic", "It would make parking a PITA", "I have people coming to stay over summer and need that room" etc.

I know. No excuses. No JADEing. I'm afraid that won't be possible. But she would get seriously offended and I really don't want to tell her the truth as it looks like I am passing the buck and that the couple would have a problem with her when it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons. It comes down to the simple fact it would just not be a good fit. If the dynamics were different I would probably say yes but as it stands it has to be a no.

I need to put the onus and the reasons for this decision back on me but all I have is a weak explanation which she would see right through and would be able to negate or try and circumvent. I have to give her something other than a flat out no but I have no idea what.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: bah12 on October 04, 2012, 05:35:46 PM
"I have new renters and your old room is no longer available."

It doesn't matter that they may not be using her old room specifically, but the fact remains that they live in your flat and that it isn't available as a result.  All you're leaving off is the "to you" at the end of the sentence...and those words are necessary adds.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: dawbs on October 04, 2012, 05:36:31 PM
Ugh, that's hard.
Can you couch it as personality, not bad?

I can imagine...
"friend, you know how there are people you adore but who you should never live with?  like how I get along so much better with my sister when we don't share a roof, but I want to beat her with her own arm, after I rip it off of her, when we share a house for more than 1 day?
I see the potential for that sort of personality conflict between you and the other housemates.  Since this is their house now, I just don't feel right imposing another room mate when I forsee the 3 of you together being oil and water"
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Roe on October 04, 2012, 05:38:20 PM
"I have new renters and your old room is no longer available."

It doesn't matter that they may not be using her old room specifically, but the fact remains that they live in your flat and that it isn't available as a result.  All you're leaving off is the "to you" at the end of the sentence...and those words are necessary adds.

This.  The situation has changed and it is no longer available.  If she gets offended/upset then she is being the rude one. 
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 05:39:42 PM
"I have new renters and your old room is no longer available."

It doesn't matter that they may not be using her old room specifically, but the fact remains that they live in your flat and that it isn't available as a result.  All you're leaving off is the "to you" at the end of the sentence...and those words are necessary adds.

That would be a lie. Her room is available and she knows it as she came down for the weekend not so long ago and stayed in it. She would also pop round for a visit and know it was still available even if I told her otherwise. lying would be even more hurtful so I need to be straight up with her but the truth will not go down well either.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: ladymaureen on October 04, 2012, 05:52:31 PM
I think you said it yourself. You don't think it would be a good fit personality wise. It's true. If she's an adult, she'll accept that. Remember -- it's your flat and you decide who lives there.
If her feelings get hurt, that can be a time to assure her that you like her fine and are always pleased to see her when she comes around.

Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: bah12 on October 04, 2012, 05:56:09 PM
"I have new renters and your old room is no longer available."

It doesn't matter that they may not be using her old room specifically, but the fact remains that they live in your flat and that it isn't available as a result.  All you're leaving off is the "to you" at the end of the sentence...and those words are necessary adds.

That would be a lie. Her room is available and she knows it as she came down for the weekend not so long ago and stayed in it. She would also pop round for a visit and know it was still available even if I told her otherwise. lying would be even more hurtful so I need to be straight up with her but the truth will not go down well either.

It's not a lie.  It's not available for her to rent.  I suppose if you feel that you have to give her more of an explanation then just tell her a much gentler version of the truth.

"Since the new renters have moved in, the dynamics of this house have changed and I don't think that adding another roommate on a permanent basis is possible.  You're welcome to visit and can stay here for a day or two, but unfortunately the room isn't for rent."

Now, if you are actually planning on finding another person to take that room, I see where you have a bigger problem.  And in that case, I would say that your friend needs to be mature enough to understand that some personalities don't mix well in living situations.  And you have an obligation to your current renters, before you have one to her.

Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Klein Bottle on October 04, 2012, 06:06:21 PM
How about, "I think I'm full up with renters.  The spare room is one I'd like to leave that way, for overnight guests, or, I might want to turn that into a computer/craft/sewing room.  If you'd like, I'll help you search the ads online to see what's available in the area."  (The last thing said only if you are willing to do so, obviously.)   
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 04, 2012, 06:11:15 PM
Is this the same woman who still owes you money?  That you decided to forgive?

I really wouldn't worry about hurting her feelings.  'Friend, I elected to let it go but the last time, you left, still owing me money.  I'm not willing to risk getting burned again.  I'm sorry, but you can't move in.'
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: JenJay on October 04, 2012, 06:14:47 PM
How about, "I think I'm full up with renters.  The spare room is one I'd like to leave that way, for overnight guests, or, I might want to turn that into a computer/craft/sewing room.  If you'd like, I'll help you search the ads online to see what's available in the area."  (The last thing said only if you are willing to do so, obviously.)

This was going to be my suggestion. If you've never had more than two renters (that she knows of, anyway) then tell her you can't handle 3+ tenants.

OR

Tell her the truth - that while you enjoy her company, and you enjoy their company, you are certain they would not enjoy each other's company. She'll ask why and you can explain that they're very quiet, reserved people and she's outgoing and boisterous and the two don't mesh. Reassure her that YOU adore her but they were there first.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 07:02:36 PM
Is this the same woman who still owes you money?  That you decided to forgive?

I really wouldn't worry about hurting her feelings.  'Friend, I elected to let it go but the last time, you left, still owing me money.  I'm not willing to risk getting burned again.  I'm sorry, but you can't move in.'

That is the one. Gee you have a good memory! I wouldn't bring up the money as that is a non issue for me. It's more her behaviour and personality. She is one of those go with the flow, transient kind of people who sees herself as flexible but the need to be so they can wriggle around people, so she would find a way round my lame reasons. She knows I have the room for her to stay, but would ask why I unwilling to help her when I had the resources to do so. The "I need that room for guests" would be met with "Oh that's OK. I will go to my parents while they are here/I can just sleep in the office". I could do it but I just don't want to and it wouldn't be fair on the others as it is their home too but ultimately I make the decision. They have met her and mentioned they found her a bit 'out there'.

I am hesitant to even let her stay short term until she sorts out other arrangements because she simply think "But this is going so well. Why should I leave?" while she quickly drove the others round the bend without even realising.

There is one card I could pull but it is a big one and would be unpleasant to bring up. She is quite racist and used to come out with some pretty off statements that quite frankly I was appalled by and it certainly lowered my opinion of her big time. One of the couple is half this race but doesn't look it at all so you would never be able to tell. Even though I told her I didn't agree with her opinions and could she please refrain from expressing them around me she just doesn't have a filter between her brain and her mouth and if she did say something offensive I would just have to ask her to leave ASAP. Any conversation about it would be along the lines of "Look N, last time you were here you made some pretty off remarks about such and such a race and I didn't really appreciate it. You need to be aware that P is half such and such and I don't trust you to not make similar comments in the future so I think it is best you look at other options for somewhere to stay."
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 04, 2012, 07:27:23 PM
I know this is blunt, but...Why are you so worried about offending her?  Is she a friend?  Can she make your life miserable if you don't give her a place to stay?

All of the reasons you gave are JADEing and won't do either of you any favors.  Since you can't (won't) tell her NO, I think you need to pull out the old "I'm afraid that won't be possible" and you need to own this "it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 04, 2012, 07:49:53 PM
Just tell her 'No, it won't be possible for you to move in.'  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Don't give her any excuses whatsoever.  There is no point in trying to keep this person as a friend.  Let her be mad; she'll either get over it or die mad.

There is no point in trying to give her an excuse of any kind; she's just going to try to refute it and you'll be trying excuse after excuse.  So every time she gives you some reason why you should let her move in, 'It won't be possible for you to move in.'
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: FoxPaws on October 04, 2012, 07:56:33 PM
Sorry, but I'm not interested in having any more boarders/roomies right now, so I think it is best you look at other options for somewhere to stay.

And if she presses...

The reasons why don't really matter since the decision is made. So, have you checked out that new Bean Dip cafe yet?
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: doodlemor on October 04, 2012, 07:58:22 PM
This woman is a user.  Under the guise of being a "free spirit" she took advantage of you, and still owes you $.  That is shameful behavior!

Tell her "that will not be possible," "that won't work for me," "I can't have so many people and a baby besides in the house."  Take a lesson from her and be a bit flaky and hard to pin down except for the big, fat No.

Don't let her move in at all, even for a night.  If you do, it will be very difficult to get rid of her.  She is apparently a skilled moocher.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Lynnv on October 04, 2012, 08:10:53 PM
How about, "I'm afraid that the house is really at capacity for full-time occupants.  We are using the guest room for occasional guests, but would not want someone living there full time as it would just be too many people in the house."

And then when she whines that she wouldn't be that much trouble (and it sounds like she will), go with "I'm afraid that won't be possible."  Lather, rinse, repeat.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Calypso on October 04, 2012, 08:23:24 PM
I like how she gets to decide what "resources" you "should" share----she evidently didn't have any moral issue with using your money without repayment, did she?

I appreciate that this is your friend and you don't want to offend her. I also like that you don't want to make it your roommates' fault---that's kind of you, but it *would* be ok to say "Jan and Mike and I talked it over, and we really don't want to have any more roommates. It just doesn't work for us, we're happy as we are." Then as long as you don't let someone else stay there, you're ok  ;)

"but whhhhhhy can't I just crash there? I won't be underfoot! I need the roooooom!"
"I know, and I'll  help you look for a place [if you are willing to do that, or even to just tell her what paper's website to look at, or something], but having another roommate just doesn't work for me this year."

(Notice how you can keep saying "another roommate" and not "we don't want YOU."

"But, I need it!"
"It doesn't work for me"
"But whhhhhhy"
"It doesn't work for me"
etc etc etc
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Winterlight on October 04, 2012, 08:25:53 PM
I think you said it yourself. You don't think it would be a good fit personality wise. It's true. If she's an adult, she'll accept that. Remember -- it's your flat and you decide who lives there.
If her feelings get hurt, that can be a time to assure her that you like her fine and are always pleased to see her when she comes around.

This.

Sorry, but I'm not interested in having any more boarders/roomies right now, so I think it is best you look at other options for somewhere to stay.

And if she presses...

The reasons why don't really matter since the decision is made. So, have you checked out that new Bean Dip cafe yet?

And this. You are not her mother and you have not taken her to raise. She is responsible for her own arrangements.

Start your own Summer of No!
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: LeveeWoman on October 04, 2012, 08:29:34 PM
I can't find the earlier thread about her. Can someone help?
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Slartibartfast on October 04, 2012, 08:31:13 PM
"Friend, even though we don't actually have anyone sleeping in that room, the [house/apartment/condo/whatever] just isn't large enough to add another person without us all driving each other around the bend."

Notice it's "that" room, not "her" room - try not to think of it as "hers" anymore because she's got no claim on it.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: gramma dishes on October 04, 2012, 08:36:50 PM
You don't need to give her a reason.  You know she's not going to pay you, so she wouldn't really be a "renter".  She'd be an unwelcome "guest".

Just say, "I'm sorry, but that really won't be possible.  You'll need to find somewhere else to stay."  You don't 'owe' her a reason.  Don't blame it on your new roommates.  Just tell her no.

Her:  "But I want to stay with youuuuuu."

You:  "No, it won't be possible." 

She only wants to stay with you because you're place is "free" as far as she's concerned.  No rent (that you'll actually MAKE her pay), no responsibilities.  Let her become someone else's problem!  Doodlemor has it right.  She isn't your friend, she's your moocher.  Don't let her even come for dinner, much less stay overnight.  As Doodlemor said, if you let her stay one night you'll never get rid of her.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: buvezdevin on October 04, 2012, 09:05:36 PM
This friend isn't the only person who you have posted about using, or potentially using the "but you have the resources, so you should..." card.

I mention this only to reinforce that you do own the decision, and the resources, and while your posts suggest you are a very giving person - *giving* is a choice.  Acceding to the expectations or demands of others is *being taken from*.

I hope that however you approach any communications with your friend, you really come to "feel" that your choices in how, when and with whom you share your home or any resources is a matter in which your thoughts, preferences and "wants" matter at least as much, or more than any "friend's" opinion on the matter.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: VorFemme on October 04, 2012, 09:24:34 PM
Ugh, that's hard.
Can you couch it as personality, not bad?

I can imagine...
"friend, you know how there are people you adore but who you should never live with?  like how I get along so much better with my sister when we don't share a roof, but I want to beat her with her own arm, after I rip it off of her, when we share a house for more than 1 day?
I see the potential for that sort of personality conflict between you and the other housemates.  Since this is their house now, I just don't feel right imposing another room mate when I forsee the 3 of you together being oil and water"

Sounds more like magnesium & water (the sparks could be pretty - but really, really hot & bright)......

You could always rent it to her for an outrageous sum, in advance (say the amount she owes you - every two days) in cash and if it doesn't work out for any reason (her unfiltered mouth opening & something stinky spews out) - then she moves out right then, and no refunds.

But if you'd rather not have her in the house at all - go with "there just isn't room enough in this place for another person sharing the kitchen, bathroom, and living area for longer than a night or two - sorry - you'll have to make other arrangements because it just isn't going to WORK".
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 09:36:47 PM
I like how she gets to decide what "resources" you "should" share----she evidently didn't have any moral issue with using your money without repayment, did she?

I appreciate that this is your friend and you don't want to offend her. I also like that you don't want to make it your roommates' fault---that's kind of you, but it *would* be ok to say "Jan and Mike and I talked it over, and we really don't want to have any more roommates. It just doesn't work for us, we're happy as we are." Then as long as you don't let someone else stay there, you're ok  ;)

"but whhhhhhy can't I just crash there? I won't be underfoot! I need the roooooom!"
"I know, and I'll  help you look for a place [if you are willing to do that, or even to just tell her what paper's website to look at, or something], but having another roommate just doesn't work for me this year."

(Notice how you can keep saying "another roommate" and not "we don't want YOU."

"But, I need it!"
"It doesn't work for me"
"But whhhhhhy"
"It doesn't work for me"
etc etc etc

It's not so much her deciding as her knowing. "There is plenty of room. Why can't I stay?" On the surface one person would not be a huge burden but I am totally over putting myself out for other people and things they would see as a minor inconvenience I just see as a potential PITA I just can't be bothered with. "Oh your homeless. Well you can't stay here because I can't be bothered knocking on your bedroom door to get you to move your car 2 times a week."

 Everything is cool and relaxed and we all get on great and there are no dramas as it is. I am not going to disrupt that. It boils down to her personality and the opinions she holds on a range of things which are pretty difficult to address with someone without insulting them.

It is always going to be a 'No' I just wanted to case it in a way that she would understand but not be offended by and that doesn't involve the others. I don't care if she thinks I am a cow but the truth that she would drive them others nuts and/or offend them is a bit more than I am willing to handle. I may just bite the bullet and tell her "Yeah you are a bit of a racist and that doesn't go down well with me so living here is just not an option." She will deny it because it suits her purpose but too bad.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: CakeEater on October 04, 2012, 09:38:21 PM
Space in a house isn't just bedrooms. It's living space, and kitchens and bathrooms. Three adults (and a new baby?) sounds like more than enough people in a house to me.

And if you're worried about hurting flaky friend's feelings, think about the feelings of your current housemates if you let someone live there who is likely to drive them nuts and potentially take advantage of all of you.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: WillyNilly on October 04, 2012, 09:40:00 PM
Just don't explain. She can push you for an explaination, she can whine or beg, she can get angry, but that's on her. You can just keep repeating "no. I'm not getting into why, there's a bunch of little reasons that individually are minor but together just mean 'no'."  She might ask "what are they?" And you can keep saying "no. I'm not getting into the reasons. You will just pick them apart as minor and I don't want to get into it because the answer is 'no'." And just keep repeating it until you have the opportunity to walk away or get off the phone... which by the way you should! The best[/i] tactic I think here is ending the conversation as quickly as possible. Some people are 'beandip' folks. With this woman I suggest as soon as she brings up the living situation you end the conversation completely.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: TootsNYC on October 04, 2012, 09:53:00 PM
I know this is blunt, but...Why are you so worried about offending her?  Is she a friend?  Can she make your life miserable if you don't give her a place to stay?

All of the reasons you gave are JADEing and won't do either of you any favors.  Since you can't (won't) tell her NO, I think you need to pull out the old "I'm afraid that won't be possible" and you need to own this "it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons.

I'm w/ PastryGoddess.

And I think the money SHOULD be an issue. Maybe you've forgiven the past debt, but why put yourself in the position of having it done to you again? She knows you didn't squawk the last time--so why would she be financially responsible the next?

It doesn't have to be about "I'm still mad"--make it be "it wouldn't be a good thing for us to risk that happening again."

Frankly, I think you should offend her, so she'll leave you alone.

Don't worry--there are PLENTY of other people who will love to take advantage of you!

And remember--YOU know it's her personality.  That doesn't mean you have to tell her. Stop JADE-ing to us, and just take the identical advice we're giving you.

"It doesn't work for me right now." And then when she asks why, look really surprised. "I told you--it doesn't work for me right now."

Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: gramma dishes on October 04, 2012, 09:59:30 PM

...   "It doesn't work for me right now." And then when she asks why, look really surprised. "I told you--it doesn't work for me right now."

The only problem I see with this is the use of the words "right now".  That would be heard by her that Pippen is saying, "Not right now, but maybe later."  So then she'd just push for 'later' to become 'in the very near future'.  Like right now.  :-\

That's why I prefer "It won't be possible."  There's no hope being offered that the situation will ever change in the future and all she has to do is talk Pippen into it.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Amara on October 04, 2012, 10:04:08 PM
I feel that if you say anything more than "No" you are going to give her room to come back at you. Even an "it isn't possible" leaves her arguments to bring up. OP, you do need to own your own opinions. Using others like your current roommates as an excuse just weakens you as a person in her eyes. All this moocher has to do, she thinks, is overcome the objections of someone else and she will if she keeps on you to do just that.

It is your house. It is your decision. It is your responsibility. Sloughing off the responsibility onto others ("my roommates won't like it") not only is impolite to them but it, as I said, above makes you a weak person in the moocher's eyes.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: gramma dishes on October 04, 2012, 10:11:57 PM
How about "Sorry, I don't want to do that."  or "Sorry, I'm not going to do that."   Is that rude? 
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 10:12:55 PM
I feel that if you say anything more than "No" you are going to give her room to come back at you. Even an "it isn't possible" leaves her arguments to bring up. OP, you do need to own your own opinions. Using others like your current roommates as an excuse just weakens you as a person in her eyes. All this moocher has to do, she thinks, is overcome the objections of someone else and she will if she keeps on you to do just that.

It is your house. It is your decision. It is your responsibility. Sloughing off the responsibility onto others ("my roommates won't like it") not only is impolite to them but it, as I said, above makes you a weak person in the moocher's eyes.

Exactly. That is why I am not doing it. I am the one drawing the line but it is based primarily on consideration for them. I told them of the situation and they were not keen (having met her) and I assured them I knew it would be a problem and that I would sort it. I am not trying to use them as an excuse I am just coming up with a way that is robust and doesn't implicate others
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: buvezdevin on October 04, 2012, 10:23:09 PM
I feel that if you say anything more than "No" you are going to give her room to come back at you. Even an "it isn't possible" leaves her arguments to bring up. OP, you do need to own your own opinions. Using others like your current roommates as an excuse just weakens you as a person in her eyes. All this moocher has to do, she thinks, is overcome the objections of someone else and she will if she keeps on you to do just that.

It is your house. It is your decision. It is your responsibility. Sloughing off the responsibility onto others ("my roommates won't like it") not only is impolite to them but it, as I said, above makes you a weak person in the moocher's eyes.

Agree with this.

Pippen, if this person or anyone you know is without lodgings, that is not your problem to solve.  Whether you have a bedroom available or not does not obligate you to have anyone share your home unless you choose to do so.  You also do not owe anyone an explanation for why you won't open your home for their residence.

*Anyone* who would question or argue with "no" as an answer to a request to live with that person is not likely to hear any reason as valid, it would be just a hurdle to overcome in getting the answer that person wants.  Don't let this friend or anyone burn your energy in a frustrating exercise. 

Own the "no."
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 04, 2012, 10:28:44 PM
I feel that if you say anything more than "No" you are going to give her room to come back at you. Even an "it isn't possible" leaves her arguments to bring up. OP, you do need to own your own opinions. Using others like your current roommates as an excuse just weakens you as a person in her eyes. All this moocher has to do, she thinks, is overcome the objections of someone else and she will if she keeps on you to do just that.

It is your house. It is your decision. It is your responsibility. Sloughing off the responsibility onto others ("my roommates won't like it") not only is impolite to them but it, as I said, above makes you a weak person in the moocher's eyes.

Exactly. That is why I am not doing it. I am the one drawing the line but it is based primarily on consideration for them. I told them of the situation and they were not keen (having met her) and I assured them I knew it would be a problem and that I would sort it. I am not trying to use them as an excuse I am just coming up with a way that is robust and doesn't implicate others

The bolded above are mutually exclusive. 
Why are you drawing the line based on your roommates wants and needs?  Taking the roommates out of the equation, what do YOU want? If you did not have roommates, would you say no to her? Why can't you just say NO and be ok with the fact that YOU don't want her there?  You need to do what's best for you, not what's best for everyone BUT you.  Ultimately, it's your home and your space, and you have to be OK with the decisions that you make. 

You also mentioned "It's not so much her deciding as her knowing" in regards to the amount of space that you have.  Why is this even an issue?  I personally know plenty of people who have space for me and my 3 cats.  However, me knowing they have the space, doesn't mean that I get to decide that I'm moving in at the date and time of my choosing. 
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Calypso on October 04, 2012, 10:32:45 PM
So my old flatmate who had to move back home has indicated she is moving back to my area for the summer and has asked if she can have her old room back. 

I know. No excuses. No JADEing. I'm afraid that won't be possible. But she would get seriously offended and I really don't want to tell her the truth as it looks like I am passing the buck and that the couple would have a problem with her when it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons. It comes down to the simple fact it would just not be a good fit. If the dynamics were different I would probably say yes but as it stands it has to be a no.

I need to put the onus and the reasons for this decision back on me but all I have is a weak explanation which she would see right through and would be able to negate or try and circumvent. I have to give her something other than a flat out no but I have no idea what.

Uh.....telling her plain "No" would be offensive, but telling her you think she's a racist wouldn't be?  ???
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 10:58:01 PM
So my old flatmate who had to move back home has indicated she is moving back to my area for the summer and has asked if she can have her old room back. 

I know. No excuses. No JADEing. I'm afraid that won't be possible. But she would get seriously offended and I really don't want to tell her the truth as it looks like I am passing the buck and that the couple would have a problem with her when it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons. It comes down to the simple fact it would just not be a good fit. If the dynamics were different I would probably say yes but as it stands it has to be a no.

I need to put the onus and the reasons for this decision back on me but all I have is a weak explanation which she would see right through and would be able to negate or try and circumvent. I have to give her something other than a flat out no but I have no idea what.

Uh.....telling her plain "No" would be offensive, but telling her you think she's a racist wouldn't be?  ???

Well at least her being a racist is something I can nail my colours to. She won't change it. I won't accept it. She knows she is so it is not new information whereas "your personality is not a good fit" is a bit close to the bone and leaves lots of scope for getting into territory and expansion I just can't be bothered with.

It's not like she is dressing up in white sheets and harrassing the locals with burning crosses but it was denigrating and narrow minded and totally out of line. I would rather give her something hard and unequivocal  than something fluffly and easily dismissed or got around.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Calypso on October 04, 2012, 11:13:06 PM
Sounds like you're good to go, then.

May we have an update after you talk with her? 8)
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 04, 2012, 11:33:39 PM
Sounds like you're good to go, then.

May we have an update after you talk with her? 8)

Of course. But knowing her MO it will be a "She turned up on my door at 8 am after sleeping in her car because she got freaked out by the known local nutjob/drug dealer she was hanging out with and didn't have anywhere else to go and thinks she is staying" Thread in about 2 weeks time.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Deetee on October 05, 2012, 01:40:51 AM
Sounds like you're good to go, then.

May we have an update after you talk with her? 8)

Of course. But knowing her MO it will be a "She turned up on my door at 8 am after sleeping in her car because she got freaked out by the known local nutjob/drug dealer she was hanging out with and didn't have anywhere else to go and thinks she is staying" Thread in about 2 weeks time.

And you follow that up with "oh what a shame. Here's the address of the homeless shelter or hotel" and we will all cheer!

Back to the original situation. You have two choices.
1) Tell her no and she yells for a bit and you get to be miserable for 15 minutes
2) Tell her yes and you get to miserable for ages.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: LEMon on October 05, 2012, 01:53:31 AM
I would build a steel spine now.  You just wrote that she will use her situation to manipulate you.  Have a hostel number ready and give it to her. 

Why let her steal more of your energy, money, or space?

Why?
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: pwy a wyr on October 05, 2012, 02:03:26 AM

Pippen, how about "friend, we tried you living here before and it didn't work. I love you and we get on much better when we don't live together." then if she goes on, you could bring up the racist stuff and the little things that made her a PITA to live with. But always end it with "no, it's not going to work", sounding more frustrated each time that she's not getting it. Basically, she needs to know she's annoying you by continuing.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: siamesecat2965 on October 05, 2012, 07:52:12 AM
I know this is blunt, but...Why are you so worried about offending her?  Is she a friend?  Can she make your life miserable if you don't give her a place to stay?

All of the reasons you gave are JADEing and won't do either of you any favors.  Since you can't (won't) tell her NO, I think you need to pull out the old "I'm afraid that won't be possible" and you need to own this "it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons.

I agree. A simple "I'm sorry but that's not possible" or someething in that vein is all you need to tell her, and if she gets offended, so be it.  If she then gets PA saying she'll have to stay at the office, her parents, a friend's garage, so be it.  Her housing issues are not your problem.  The only explanation you owe her is that she cannot come back and live with you. You owe her nothing, and if she gets offended or upset, its not your problem.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: GrammarNerd on October 05, 2012, 07:55:14 AM

Pippen, how about "friend, we tried you living here before and it didn't work. I love you and we get on much better when we don't live together." then if she goes on, you could bring up the racist stuff and the little things that made her a PITA to live with. But always end it with "no, it's not going to work", sounding more frustrated each time that she's not getting it. Basically, she needs to know she's annoying you by continuing.

I like the getting annoyed thing.  And if she keeps arguing with you and pressing you about it, after that, you can very honestly say, "And see?  THIS is EXACTLY why this won't work again.  You're not even living here and you won't abide by my decisions.  I made a decision about MY home and living space, and you're ARGUING with me about it.  It's obvious that if you WERE living here, that would only get worse. So no way."
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Winterlight on October 05, 2012, 08:11:28 AM
Sounds like you're good to go, then.

May we have an update after you talk with her? 8)

Of course. But knowing her MO it will be a "She turned up on my door at 8 am after sleeping in her car because she got freaked out by the known local nutjob/drug dealer she was hanging out with and didn't have anywhere else to go and thinks she is staying" Thread in about 2 weeks time.

*heads to stash of platinum spines- it can't be that expensive to ship one to NZ*

At which point you will say, "No, you can't stay here." Won't you?
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Redsoil on October 05, 2012, 08:22:18 AM
Pippen, after reading your posts on various issues for some time, it really does seem that you almost invite difficult issues into your life.  There seem to have been multiple instances of people in your life causing drama.

This may come across as harsh, but maybe it's worth really looking at your interactions with others, especially with regard to actually being valued for yourself, as opposed to what you can provide for them.  It comes across very strongly (to me, at least) that you interact with many who feel you should "provide" for them.  It also seems they don't have a lot of respect for you. 

Perhaps it's time to start valuing yourself, rather than feeling you have to portray a certain persona so others will "like" you?

Just a thought.  Good luck with it all.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Morticia on October 05, 2012, 08:44:09 AM
Did you tell her you have forgiven the debt? Otherwise, every time she talks about moving in, just say, "No, you still owe me money from last time." If you did, tell her that you can not allow her to need to be forgiven again. You wouldn't dream of putting her in that position.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Steve on October 05, 2012, 08:49:13 AM
I do not see why you can not use "I am afraid it is not possible." And if she pushes the issue you can always say: "Based on my previous experiences with you I have decided against it." Still pushing: "I will not discuss this any further, the decision is final." And put the last one on rinse lather repeat.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Bexx27 on October 05, 2012, 09:23:32 AM
It seems you have 2 goals:

1. Not being a doormat.
2. Not offending someone who will get offended if you don't allow her to walk all over you.

These goals are incompatible. You can either go through life allowing yourself to be used, or you can stand up for yourself and accept that the users won't like it. Just because someone is offended doesn't make you rude or mean.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 05, 2012, 10:53:04 AM
Pippen, after reading your posts on various issues for some time, it really does seem that you almost invite difficult issues into your life.  There seem to have been multiple instances of people in your life causing drama.

This may come across as harsh, but maybe it's worth really looking at your interactions with others, especially with regard to actually being valued for yourself, as opposed to what you can provide for them.  It comes across very strongly (to me, at least) that you interact with many who feel you should "provide" for them.  It also seems they don't have a lot of respect for you. 

Perhaps it's time to start valuing yourself, rather than feeling you have to portray a certain persona so others will "like" you?

Just a thought.  Good luck with it all.

POD to this.

Looking back at my posts I realized that I am frustrated FOR you because you seem to value yourself and your wants and needs so little.  However, this did not give me the right to basically badger you on your own thread.  I apologize for that.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: peach2play on October 05, 2012, 10:55:35 AM
Please realize why you don't want to tell her no.  It's not that you can't, it's that you want a line you can give her that will keep you from having to deal with her emotional blackmail/drama for saying no.  Recognize that the short term pain of standing up to her and using No as a complete sentence will save you a lot of long term pain from having to live with her and look at other areas in your life that you do this.  What do you do to avoid short term pain that gets you long term pain as a consequence.  I'll bet you'll be surprised. 
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: camlan on October 05, 2012, 11:10:07 AM
So my old flatmate who had to move back home has indicated she is moving back to my area for the summer and has asked if she can have her old room back. It just simply isn't going to work for a number of reasons but the main one being I think she would drive the couple I have here now absolutely spare. They are pretty quiet and reserved and she is kind of flighty and pretty full on. I can't however point this out to her and all the other reasons sound a bit lame like "It would just be too hectic", "It would make parking a PITA", "I have people coming to stay over summer and need that room" etc.

I know. No excuses. No JADEing. I'm afraid that won't be possible. But she would get seriously offended and I really don't want to tell her the truth as it looks like I am passing the buck and that the couple would have a problem with her when it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons. It comes down to the simple fact it would just not be a good fit. If the dynamics were different I would probably say yes but as it stands it has to be a no.

I need to put the onus and the reasons for this decision back on me but all I have is a weak explanation which she would see right through and would be able to negate or try and circumvent. I have to give her something other than a flat out no but I have no idea what.

Why?

Why are you so upset about the idea of upsetting this woman, who has stolen from you (by not paying you) and is a racist? What does she bring into your life that you are so concerned about upsetting her?

I think you are looking for some magic formula that will allow you to tell her "no" while at the same time not upsetting her.

Unfortunately, that magic formula doesn't exist.

Either you upset her by telling her no, or you allow her to stay with you--then she's happy and you are upset.

Why do you value her feelings above your own? Someone is going to be upset here. Why can't it be her? Why should it be you?

Prepare yourself that she will be upset. Figure out how you are going to deal with that. Then just tell her "no, you can't stay here."
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Really? on October 05, 2012, 11:15:22 AM
Pippen,

I think you're doing a great job at learning to value yourself (although I can see why Redsoil and Patry Goddess" brought it up). In the past few threads I've read of yours, standing up for yourself is not the issue, its how to that is sometimes a challenge.

From my experience I had 2 roomies and didn't realize until one left how oppressive the place was (the others two didn't really get along). Now whenever anyone asks about staying, Yes is only said if it'll work for the whole house hold. Just don't go back to the thinking "it'll only be for a few days". you've got calm and peace in your household now and its worth keeping.

Also consider if you do let her stay, even for a few days, is it worth risking your good relationship with your current roomies and face the prospect of loosing respect for you.

Me me me
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: gwennan on October 05, 2012, 11:26:43 AM
It seems you have 2 goals:

1. Not being a doormat.
2. Not offending someone who will get offended if you don't allow her to walk all over you.

These goals are incompatible. You can either go through life allowing yourself to be used, or you can stand up for yourself and accept that the users won't like it. Just because someone is offended doesn't make you rude or mean.

Bexx has nailed it, here.  Pippen, there is NO WAY to avoid offending someone who wants to take advantage of you while simultaneously maintaining healthy boundaries.    I know that's hard to accept  :-\
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Sara Crewe on October 05, 2012, 02:27:03 PM
Bear in mind that if you do let her move in, you may well lose your current tenants.

Renting a room from a landlady has a completely different vibe to a shared house IMHO.  Neither is bad or wrong, but if I rented one and it turned into the other, I would be annoyed and would be looking to see if this was grounds to break the lease.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: VorFemme on October 05, 2012, 04:13:12 PM
You have a choice - drama now over telling her "no" or drama later after she moves in "temporarily" and demonstrates WHY you didn't want her moving in.

She's the star in her own life, the rest of you are bit players, and you are not supposed to do anything but follow her script.

Just say "NO"! - it'll save a world of trouble.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: TootsNYC on October 05, 2012, 04:39:54 PM
I have to give her something other than a flat out no

Why?

Why are you so upset about the idea of upsetting this woman, who has stolen from you (by not paying you) and is a racist? What does she bring into your life that you are so concerned about upsetting her?

And who hangs out with local nutjobs/drug dealers.

Pippen, you are making your life more difficult than it needs to be.


And peach2play has some really valuable insight:

Quote
Recognize that the short term pain of standing up to her and using No as a complete sentence will save you a lot of long term pain from having to live with her and look at other areas in your life that you do this.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Kaypeep on October 05, 2012, 05:33:03 PM
I know this is blunt, but...Why are you so worried about offending her?  Is she a friend?  Can she make your life miserable if you don't give her a place to stay?

All of the reasons you gave are JADEing and won't do either of you any favors.  Since you can't (won't) tell her NO, I think you need to pull out the old "I'm afraid that won't be possible" and you need to own this "it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons.

I'm w/ PastryGoddess.

And I think the money SHOULD be an issue. Maybe you've forgiven the past debt, but why put yourself in the position of having it done to you again? She knows you didn't squawk the last time--so why would she be financially responsible the next?

It doesn't have to be about "I'm still mad"--make it be "it wouldn't be a good thing for us to risk that happening again."

Frankly, I think you should offend her, so she'll leave you alone.

Don't worry--there are PLENTY of other people who will love to take advantage of you!

And remember--YOU know it's her personality.  That doesn't mean you have to tell her. Stop JADE-ing to us, and just take the identical advice we're giving you.

"It doesn't work for me right now." And then when she asks why, look really surprised. "I told you--it doesn't work for me right now."

POD to all of this.  I think you need to practice saying no, it seems to be difficult for you and I suspect this ex-boarder knows it, which is why she keeps gravitating back to you.  Give her your answer and end the discussion.  It's not a debate.  She's asking you a yes or no question and your answer is no.  She is not entitled to a reason.

ExBoarder: HOw about I stay in my old room again?  I can move in next week.
Pippen:  No, I'm afraid that's not possible.  I'm not taking on more boarders.
ExBoarder:  But why?
Pippen:  Because I said so.  You asked me a question and I answered it.  I'm sorry it's not the answer you wanted, but it's my answer all the same.  I'm afraid this conversation is not open for debate, and I consider the subject closed.

Seriously, practice and practice some more.  I don't mean to be offensive, but you keep posting for advice on how to be polite to this person who keeps using you.  The only thing you don't seem to be doing is saying no to  her.    I really think you need to start practicing saying no, this way you won't be creating these awkward problems down the road, and the causes of these dilemmas (ie" the moochers) will eventually leave you alone.  There are several people on this board who can attest that this method of "no" really does work.  It's hard at first, but it gets easier and no one is worse off for saying no.  In fact, most of them will tell you their lives improved by saying NO to the moochers!
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Kaypeep on October 05, 2012, 05:42:08 PM
So my old flatmate who had to move back home has indicated she is moving back to my area for the summer and has asked if she can have her old room back. It just simply isn't going to work for a number of reasons but the main one being I think she would drive the couple I have here now absolutely spare. They are pretty quiet and reserved and she is kind of flighty and pretty full on. I can't however point this out to her and all the other reasons sound a bit lame like "It would just be too hectic", "It would make parking a PITA", "I have people coming to stay over summer and need that room" etc.

I know. No excuses. No JADEing. I'm afraid that won't be possible. But she would get seriously offended and I really don't want to tell her the truth as it looks like I am passing the buck and that the couple would have a problem with her when it is actually my decision after assessing all the pros and cons. It comes down to the simple fact it would just not be a good fit. If the dynamics were different I would probably say yes but as it stands it has to be a no.

I need to put the onus and the reasons for this decision back on me but all I have is a weak explanation which she would see right through and would be able to negate or try and circumvent. I have to give her something other than a flat out no but I have no idea what.

Why?

Why are you so upset about the idea of upsetting this woman, who has stolen from you (by not paying you) and is a racist? What does she bring into your life that you are so concerned about upsetting her?

I think you are looking for some magic formula that will allow you to tell her "no" while at the same time not upsetting her.

Unfortunately, that magic formula doesn't exist.

Either you upset her by telling her no, or you allow her to stay with you--then she's happy and you are upset.

Why do you value her feelings above your own? Someone is going to be upset here. Why can't it be her? Why should it be you?

Prepare yourself that she will be upset. Figure out how you are going to deal with that. Then just tell her "no, you can't stay here."


THIS.  SO MUCH THIS! 
You are looking for magic words to make an unreasonable person see reason.  It's not going to happen.  Stop trying to let her down easy.  If she shows up on your doorstep, don't answer the door.  Call the police if you must if she won't go away or camps out in your yard.  You do not owe her anything.    If she fights you like this trying to wear you down, you owe here even less consideration because  she's showing she's using you and has no consideration of your feelings or decisions.  The only way this is going to end is to make her realize you will not relent.  Once you do it, I believe she'll go away for good because she knows you won't back down anymore and cave in to her.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Julian on October 05, 2012, 06:06:20 PM
Pippen, let me tell you a story...

Like you, I tend to take in waifs and strays.  This hasn't always been beneficial for me, let me tell ya!

Several years ago when I first moved to Tasmania, I helped out a friend - he'd lost his home (share house, other person moved overseas).  He needed somewhere to crash, so he stayed with me.  No probs, it was nice to have someone there (I'd just ended a longterm relationship and was feeling the end of the world and the echoes of lonely rooms).  Roomie ended up moving interstate for a job.

A year or so later, he's back in Tassie.  No job now.  He came to stay with me.  He wasn't paying board or anything.  Then he borrowed money.  Then more money.  I'd not long bought a new car, so I let him use the old one.  Then the parking tickets (in my name) started coming in.  So they all got returned with stat decs (because I sure as heck hadn't got the tickets!).  I eventually signed over the old car to him - his tickets, his problem.

Then he started working cash jobs at a pub in the city, about 40 minutes away from home.  He'd drink, so he'd end up crashed out in the car overnight, or find some random to crash with.  He was home less and less.  Never paid me back any of the money he owed.  And still the parking tickets kept arriving in the mail, along with older tickets that had gone through the court system, and then the summonses started.

Meanwhile Roomie, presumably now ex-Roomie, just didn't start coming home at all.  Next I see on FB he's moved 2 hours away to live with his elderly parents.  And yeah I still have some of his stuff here in my home.  Last time I saw Roomie (oops, ex-Roomie) was September last year.  And STILL the tickets, summonses etc arrive in the mail.  I now have a canvas tote bag stuffed with them - I don't have an address to send them.  And that's not counting the ones that got returned to sender.

October last year another Friend moved down from Queensland to live with me (different bedroom to ex-Roomie).  Friend is at home one day when the police turn up, looking for ex-Roomie.  No she says, she's never met him and she's been here since October.  No problem, the cops leave a card.  I call them back and speak to them, tell them what's happened.  All seems fine, however summonses etc continue to arrive.

Three days ago I see on FB that ex-Roomie's elderly parents are packing it in and moving to a retirement village, which means ex-Roomie is now, once more, looking for a place to hang his shorts.  And yesterday, once more, Friend had a visit from the police looking for him.  They wanted to speak to me, I told them the story again, hopefully this time my home will not be listed as ex-Roomie's home any more and we will be left in peace.  I suspect not, but I can always hope.

Now, ex-Roomie hasn't asked if he can come back here.  I would hope he realises that with the drama I've had that I will not be welcoming.  But if he does ask, the answer will be a resounding no.  No, no, no.  I shouldn't need to provide a reason, he knows what he's done.  Whilst I have sympathy for anyone in his situation, it doesn't mean that I need to lay down and act the doormat and provide for them.  His problems are 99.9% self inflicted, and it isn't my job to fix them for him. 

Now, virtual cookies  timtams if you got through that!

Pippen, your moocher friend knows why you don't want her back, she just doesn't care.  It sounds like my ex-Roomie and your moocher friend have a lot in common.  Just tell her no when she asks.  She really doesn't need a reason, she knows the reason.  And you know what?  You don't need a reason either.  It is YOUR house, hun.  It is your decision who you live with.  If she can't respect that, she isn't a friend and doesn't deserve your headspace.

Good luck!  Pity there's no exterminator company that deals with persistent moocher problems, they'd have a great business!

Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Minmom3 on October 05, 2012, 10:10:08 PM
What sometimes helps me with pushy people is to flat out TELL THEM to "stop pushing me. You have my answer."  Like others have said, she KNOWS what she did that you didn't like - she failed to pay rent, she's been racist and resisted even being quiet about it in front of you, she's a flake, etc.  You don't have a magic wand to make her happy with your refusal.  You DO have roomies who will be unhappy if you relent, and you'll be angry with yourself if you relent.  When she pushes, tell her to stop, and stop talking to her - either hang up or walk away.  She can't argue with an empty space, so you need to leave her/hang up so all she HAS is the empty space.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: marylou on October 06, 2012, 07:46:31 PM
When faced with a situation like this, I bring to the front of my mind an interview I saw with Oprah Winfrey. She gets asked to talk/donate/do favors/ host/ you-name-it for literally thousands of organizations. She said offering an excuse is pointless. She finally learned to handle it by leaning in closely to the person asking, smiling and shaking her head all the while and saying, "I am so sorry, but I won't be able to do that".

Rest assured they will ask in a different way. You just keep smiling and saying, "I'm so sorry, I just can't."

Period. End of discussion.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Pippen on October 06, 2012, 08:01:33 PM
Well I rang her back a bit earlier and told her it isn't going to happen as it just didn't work for me as I didn't want any change in the current dynamic. Her response was "Really? I thought we got on great?" To which is told her I had other people to consider and that it is nothing personal. Anyone else asking the same would be getting the same answer.

I think she is a bit brassed off but I cant change that.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: LeveeWoman on October 06, 2012, 08:05:22 PM
Well I rang her back a bit earlier and told her it isn't going to happen as it just didn't work for me as I didn't want any change in the current dynamic. Her response was "Really? I thought we got on great?" To which is told her I had other people to consider and that it is nothing personal. Anyone else asking the same would be getting the same answer.

I think she is a bit brassed off but I cant change that.

Good answers and good outcome!
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Kaypeep on October 06, 2012, 08:08:07 PM
Well I rang her back a bit earlier and told her it isn't going to happen as it just didn't work for me as I didn't want any change in the current dynamic. Her response was "Really? I thought we got on great?" To which is told her I had other people to consider and that it is nothing personal. Anyone else asking the same would be getting the same answer.

I think she is a bit brassed off but I cant change that.

I'm glad she didn't push this time.  But as you said, she might show up unexpectedly anyway.  So be sure not to even let her in, or answer the door even.  She probably won't give up with just one 'no'.  She's going to keep pushing and you have to stay strong.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 06, 2012, 10:31:36 PM
Well I rang her back a bit earlier and told her it isn't going to happen as it just didn't work for me as I didn't want any change in the current dynamic. Her response was "Really? I thought we got on great?" To which is told her I had other people to consider and that it is nothing personal. Anyone else asking the same would be getting the same answer.

I think she is a bit brassed off but I cant change that.

Awesome outcome.  I'll send you some fresh titanium to polish that shiny spine of yours
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: Winterlight on October 07, 2012, 11:31:14 AM
Go you! *cheers*

Now, keep your spine handy in case she does show up on your doorstep- letting her stay, even for a night, would be the thin edge of the wedge.
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: bopper on October 08, 2012, 10:33:24 AM
If she asks again:

"Do you have that $XXX you owe me?"
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: gramma dishes on October 08, 2012, 09:08:14 PM
If she asks again:

"Do you have that $XXX you owe me?"

This.   ;D

That might put the brakes on her eagerness a bit.

But in actuality, the answer should still just be "No.  It is not going to happen."
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: VorFemme on October 08, 2012, 09:29:53 PM
If she asks again:

"Do you have that $XXX you owe me?"

This.   ;D

That might put the brakes on her eagerness a bit.

But in actuality, the answer should still just be "No.  It is not going to happen."

What if she gets the idea that paying the $XXX would be enough to make her welcome to move back in and mooch her way past what debts she's "paid up"?

Thin edge of the wedge territory - bette to say "no".

Although getting paid back by someone like this is always tempting......on the face of it.

But we cut off our moocher in 1985 & refused to let him reconnect in 1988 - best thing do do with someone like this...becasue they never seem to grow up and "own" their share of any issues in what killed the friendship (or parasite/host - which seems a more realistic description of what was really going on).
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: MindsEye on October 09, 2012, 12:27:42 PM
If she asks again:

"Do you have that $XXX you owe me?"

This.   ;D

That might put the brakes on her eagerness a bit.

But in actuality, the answer should still just be "No.  It is not going to happen."

What if she gets the idea that paying the $XXX would be enough to make her welcome to move back in and mooch her way past what debts she's "paid up"?

This reminded me of a funny(ish) story of how a college buddy of mine dealt with a similar moocher...  here is the abbreviated story...

Moocher lived with my Buddy for a semester or so, then vanished for several months, owing Buddy lots of $$$ for rent, utilities, groceries, etc.  Moocher then showed back up at the end of the school year and wanted to move back in for the summer.
Buddy: No.  Besides you still owe me $$$ from last time you were here.
Moocher: What if I paid you back?
Buddy: If you pay me back the $$$ that you owe me, then I will reconsider letting you move back in.
Moocher pays Buddy back in full.
Moocher: So, I can move in?
Buddy: No.
Moocher: But you said you would reconsider!
Buddy: I said that I would reconsider my answer.  Not change it.

OP, maybe you should try this script next time you hear from your moocher? 
Title: Re: I need to own this
Post by: EMuir on October 09, 2012, 05:23:35 PM
So far my method of getting rid of moochers is to ask to borrow money from them.  There was a family member who was known for borrowing money and not returning it.  When I got old enough to have money, he asked to borrow $20 and would return it to me in a week.  I agreed and he did indeed return it in a week.  The next time we met I asked to borrow $20.  He seemed a bit perplexed and gave it to me, and I returned it to him in a week.  He never brought up money again.  :P