Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Etiquette of the Rich and Famous => Topic started by: Jones on October 31, 2012, 08:39:02 AM

Title: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Jones on October 31, 2012, 08:39:02 AM
@Kelsey and Kayte Grammer (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/kelsey-grammer-brings-3-month-old-playboy-mansion-100031154--abc-news-celebrities.html)

In short, Kelsey Grammer and his wife Kayte brought their three month old daughter, Faith, to the Playboy mansion Halloween party.

As a breastfeeding parent who also does not have a nanny and has limited options on babysitters, I vote this was a very bad decision on the parents' parts. There are some places you do not bring your daughter, and the Playboy Mansion is one of them.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: JenJay on October 31, 2012, 08:52:51 AM
It doesn't bother me unless, of course, kids were explicitly not invited and they baby-crashed. I probably wouldn't take a child old enough to be aware of anything inappropriate but a 3 month old is pretty much just going to eat, sleep and need diapers. I mean heck, most likely the only thing a breast feeding infant is going to be thinking at a Playboy party is "Buffet!"  :P
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Sharnita on October 31, 2012, 09:11:18 AM
I think having an infant there would probably change the vibe for everyone else. Not a fan of anything Playboy but I think if you do attend you have an obligation to go with the flow.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Two Ravens on October 31, 2012, 09:12:14 AM
Klassy.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: MyFamily on October 31, 2012, 09:17:24 AM
I think having an infant there would probably change the vibe for everyone else. Not a fan of anything Playboy but I think if you do attend you have an obligation to go with the flow.

I didn't click on the link given above, but the article I read mentioned that someone at the party did tweet something about this and it definitely was not a positive comment.  Most likely, the baby went into sensory overload and just fell asleep, but this was not an appropriate venue for a baby simply because that was not the crowd that was there.  No babysitter, no nanny = you stay home. 
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Zilla on October 31, 2012, 09:39:40 AM
I thought it was odd that they couldn't find a babysitter but after reading this link, http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/15225565/nanny-kills-kids-in-new-york-apartment/ (http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/15225565/nanny-kills-kids-in-new-york-apartment/)
 
I don't blame them.  It sounds like though the baby slept through it all and if it wasn't explicitly allowed, I don't see an issue with it.  I have seen alot of shows that revolved around the Playboy Mansion and it's not that omigosh you brought a child there type of place.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: WillyNilly on October 31, 2012, 01:47:15 PM
...I have seen alot of shows that revolved around the Playboy Mansion and it's not that omigosh you brought a child there type of place.

While I agree this party might not have been baby or child appropriate, certainly there are children friendly events held at the Playboy mansion!  Lets not forget Hef has a bunch of kids, and grandkids!  Children were raised in the mansion.  And plenty of his girlfriends and bunnies have kids too.  Its not, IMO, always inappropriate to bring children to the Playboy Mansion by any stretch.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Jones on October 31, 2012, 01:55:17 PM
OK, I'll be willing to concede that there are family friendly events at the Playboy Mansion.

This, however, does not sound like such an event. Other guests complained, for one thing, even though the baby slept through most of it. I also have misgivings about bringing children around drunk people, who may not act as wisely as they would sober.

I just mentioned the story to DH and he said "Are you kidding? All those girls and one baby, I'd be surprised if they didn't pass her around cooing."  ::) DH has an odd sense of the female psyche.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Sharnita on October 31, 2012, 02:12:58 PM
...I have seen alot of shows that revolved around the Playboy Mansion and it's not that omigosh you brought a child there type of place.

While I agree this party might not have been baby or child appropriate, certainly there are children friendly events held at the Playboy mansion!  Lets not forget Hef has a bunch of kids, and grandkids!  Children were raised in the mansion.  And plenty of his girlfriends and bunnies have kids too.  Its not, IMO, always inappropriate to bring children to the Playboy Mansion by any stretch.

It seems like if this was one of those events, their baby would not have been noteworthy enough for another guest to have tweeted in disapproval.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: WillyNilly on October 31, 2012, 03:01:01 PM
^ That's very likely. 

But then again one never knows - Hef might have said "eh, she's 3 months and will probably sleep through it..." So long as the host is ok then if guests don't approve its on them.  The host gets to decide who can attend.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: gramma dishes on October 31, 2012, 03:17:13 PM
I personally think they should have either left the baby home with someone they trusted or elected to not attend this particular party.  I think sometimes "stars" think that basic rules of etiquette don't apply to them, just to everyone else.  The baby's name was not on the invitation, she shouldn't have been there.

Having said that though, stop and think of the reasons most people don't want kids at a specific 'adult' event.  It's usually because the kid cries, throws tantrums, gets into things, breaks stuff, demands attention from other party goers, etc.  This baby was so young that she would be guilty of none of those things. 

If she fell asleep early in the game, it is possible/probable that a lot of the partiers weren't even aware of her presence.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: O'Dell on October 31, 2012, 03:28:42 PM
How did Hef address the invitation? I have to know before I decide. ;)
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Slartibartfast on October 31, 2012, 03:46:38 PM
The trick to bringing a baby to an adults-only function is to realize it's an imposition and go with the intent of leaving early.  Then you can always be pleasantly surprised and stay later if the kiddo sleeps through everything, but you've laid the groundwork already for when the kid starts getting grumpy half an hour in.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: rose red on October 31, 2012, 03:52:47 PM
The trick to bringing a baby to an adults-only function is to realize it's an imposition and go with the intent of leaving early.  Then you can always be pleasantly surprised and stay later if the kiddo sleeps through everything, but you've laid the groundwork already for when the kid starts getting grumpy half an hour in.

Or not be an imposition by not bringing the baby at all (or stay home).  It's rude to the host and other guests to bring an unexpected baby and then leave early which also feels rude to me.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: SiotehCat on October 31, 2012, 03:53:14 PM
The trick to bringing a baby to an adults-only function is to realize it's an imposition and go with the intent of leaving early.  Then you can always be pleasantly surprised and stay later if the kiddo sleeps through everything, but you've laid the groundwork already for when the kid starts getting grumpy half an hour in.

Even if the baby is fine and sleeps the whole time, its still an adult-only function. Babies shouldnt be there at all.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: snowdragon on October 31, 2012, 05:32:46 PM
The trick to bringing a baby to an adults-only function is to realize it's an imposition and go with the intent of leaving early.  Then you can always be pleasantly surprised and stay later if the kiddo sleeps through everything, but you've laid the groundwork already for when the kid starts getting grumpy half an hour in.

Bringing a baby means that you have unilaterally changed the event from adults only to kids included. Unless you are the host doing this is rude.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: violinp on October 31, 2012, 08:09:19 PM
The trick to bringing a baby to an adults-only function is to realize it's an imposition and go with the intent of leaving early.  Then you can always be pleasantly surprised and stay later if the kiddo sleeps through everything, but you've laid the groundwork already for when the kid starts getting grumpy half an hour in.

Bringing a baby means that you have unilaterally changed the event from adults only to kids included. Unless you are the host doing this is rude.

I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Rohanna on November 01, 2012, 01:33:14 AM
I'm hardly a prude, but I think there are adult parties and there are "adult" parties. A small, quiet baby might be acceptable at an adult party if the hosts are okay with it, but at an "adult" party I think it changes the vibe for guests far too much.

If I'm nibbling on cheese at a tupperware party, someone's slumbering 2 month old isn't going to bother me. If I'm planning on drinking one too many glasses of wine, telling my latest slightly off-colour joke and perhaps trying out the latest fashion in lampshade hats, I'd rather not be worrying that there are little humans underfoot- or feel (however irrationally) that I need to behave around them. I'd also rather not have even very small humans around me at other, less "rowdy" parties- anywhere that atmosphere is a big part of the grown-up fun.


(In actuality I rarely drink at all- but the point stands :P)

Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Slartibartfast on November 01, 2012, 01:56:04 AM
The trick to bringing a baby to an adults-only function is to realize it's an imposition and go with the intent of leaving early.  Then you can always be pleasantly surprised and stay later if the kiddo sleeps through everything, but you've laid the groundwork already for when the kid starts getting grumpy half an hour in.

Bringing a baby means that you have unilaterally changed the event from adults only to kids included. Unless you are the host doing this is rude.

I couldn't agree more.

My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek  :P but I do feel there is a grain of truth to it.  When you're in a situation where you are socially obligated to show up but showing up without the baby isn't an option,* it's usually an acceptable compromise to "make an appearance" with the stated intention of stopping by to say hi and to chat for a few minutes.  If the kid is good and the hosts don't mind (i.e. it's the former of Rohanna's suggested "adult" parties), "stopping by" can turn into a longer visit.  If it's more "adult" than expected or the kid isn't behaving or the hosts aren't comfortable with a sleeping baby being in the corner, you stay for ten minutes to say hi and discharge your social obligations but you continue to be open about how you're just stopping in but Little Johnny needs to get home, so sorry, but you hope everyone has fun without you.

* I've only experienced this a few times - once for church and once for work.  The church one was a celebratory dinner party for members of a specific group within the church, and the work one was a charity luncheon which everyone was expected to "voluntarily" attend.  In both cases, it would have caused drama if DH and I hadn't attended.  The church party was before Babybartfast was born, so the baby wasn't an issue, and at the work luncheon she was about two months old and slept happily in the corner while we made the obligatory rounds and then left before the actual luncheon part.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Iris on November 01, 2012, 02:45:21 AM
I would have to know more details before I condemned this. Maybe the party was relatively tame, and maybe the host was fine with it. The fact that another guest tweeted about it doesn't necessarily mean that it is wrong since I've known people to complain about noisy children at a playground...

So basically, might be rude, might be stupid, but since I wasn't there I don't think it's my call.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: WillyNilly on November 01, 2012, 07:36:04 AM
None of us know Hef's stance so none of us can say it was rude. Its possible the Grammers RSVP'ed "no, so sorry but we don't have a sitter yet" and Hef or his staff said it was ok, bring the baby. In which case the tweeting guest was the rude one.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Sharnita on November 01, 2012, 08:23:06 AM
None of us know Hef's stance so none of us can say it was rude. Its possible the Grammers RSVP'ed "no, so sorry but we don't have a sitter yet" and Hef or his staff said it was ok, bring the baby. In which case the tweeting guest was the rude one.

I'm not sure I entirely agree.  If the invite was for adult type behavior/socializing then that is what the host should deliver.  I think that the host introducing a baby into the mix when they have led guests to believe that it will be adults only is actually a bit rude.  Let's say Tweety Bird has two "adult" invitations to choose from. They accept Hef's.  When they get to the party there is a baby which definitely changes the vibe for them and maybe a few other guests.  Now if they had known up front, they could have made other plans. It is basically a bait and switch.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: JenJay on November 01, 2012, 09:10:19 AM
I would have to know more details before I condemned this. Maybe the party was relatively tame, and maybe the host was fine with it. The fact that another guest tweeted about it doesn't necessarily mean that it is wrong since I've known people to complain about noisy children at a playground...

So basically, might be rude, might be stupid, but since I wasn't there I don't think it's my call.

ITA
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: doodlemor on November 01, 2012, 04:19:56 PM
I suspect that it never occurred to Hef that Kelsey might bring a baby with him. 

Since the child is so young, I don't see a problem with cleaning up language, and so forth.  I also bet that the Playboy Mansion parties are much duller than the venue would suggest, and have heavy security.  Presumably, guests who act in a bizarre or belligerent fashion are removed.

What does concern me is whether the music or the other party activities were too noisy for tender baby ears.  I would guess that there is a decibel level above which an infant's hearing could be damaged.

IMHO Grammar wanted to *show off* and be "cool."  There is a lot of publicity these days about Hollywood babies. pregnancies, breastfeeding etc.  I think that Kelsey just wanted to emphasize that he was/is young enough still to father a child.

For some reason the old expression about mutton being done up like lamb keeps coming to mind.

I do think that it was a bit OTT to take the infant to the party, but I doubt he inconvenienced anyone very much. 

Grammar's actually been much ruder, though, in some of the statements that he's made about his X.  IRL he must be quite a character.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: doodlemor on November 01, 2012, 07:41:03 PM
I suspect that it never occurred to Hef that Kelsey might bring a baby with him. 

Since the child is so young, I don't see a problem with cleaning up language, and so forth.  I also bet that the Playboy Mansion parties are much duller than the venue would suggest, and have heavy security.  Presumably, guests who act in a bizarre or belligerent fashion are removed.

What does concern me is whether the music or the other party activities were too noisy for tender baby ears.  I would guess that there is a decibel level above which an infant's hearing could be damaged.

IMHO Grammar wanted to *show off* and be "cool."  There is a lot of publicity these days about Hollywood babies. pregnancies, breastfeeding etc.  I think that Kelsey just wanted to emphasize that he was/is young enough still to father a child.

For some reason the old expression about mutton being done up like lamb keeps coming to mind.

I do think that it was a bit OTT to take the infant to the party, but I doubt he inconvenienced anyone very much. 

Grammar's actually been much ruder, though, in some of the statements that he's made about his X.  IRL he must be quite a character.

I won't comment on whether or not the Grammers were rude, as I wasn't the host of the party. But I don't understand how you come to the conclusion of the bolded. I think it's more than a little ungracious to immediately jump to the worst conclusion. It's probably more likely that the reason they brought the baby was because it was the most convenient option for them, not because they wanted to use their child as a means of getting attention.

You're right, I did jump to an unkind conclusion.  I'm afraid that my opinion of the man has become slanted by the things that he said about his x wife. 
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: thedudeabides on November 01, 2012, 09:45:10 PM
He took a baby to the Halloween party at the Playboy Mansion.  Dude is batting a thousand on the "great parent" front.  I feel pretty comfortable saying that a party that looks like this is not family-friendly: http://vipexclusives.com/Playboy-Mansion-Kandy-Halloween-2012-Tickets.htm
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: kareng57 on November 01, 2012, 10:18:03 PM
I too thought at first this it was eyebrow-raising territory, but do we have any evidence that the hosts were not expecting the baby to be there?

I'm aware that some of the guests might not have liked it, but if the hosts were fine with it then there was no etiquette faux-pas.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Sharnita on November 02, 2012, 07:26:37 AM
Once again, I am not sure that I completely agree that if the host was aware there was no etiquette issue.  i think it is entirely possible that if that were the case the host was rude to other guests.

I think that if you present one type of event in your invitations and then when guests arrive something changes that, they have a right to be upset. 

Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Jones on November 02, 2012, 08:17:45 AM
He took a baby to the Halloween party at the Playboy Mansion.  Dude is batting a thousand on the "great parent" front.  I feel pretty comfortable saying that a party that looks like this is not family-friendly: http://vipexclusives.com/Playboy-Mansion-Kandy-Halloween-2012-Tickets.htm

If that was the event....it is crazy that anyone would bring a baby to it! And expect the child to sleep!
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: gorplady on November 02, 2012, 08:44:47 AM
From the event description itself: "You already know what to expect from a Kandy party - Hand-picked Kandy Girls in their s..e..x..i..e..s..t costumes, a sight and sound experience like no other, the most over-the-top production imaginable and much much more..

So while the invitation may have not explicitly stated "no kids," IMHO, it didn't need to, because of the adult nature of the party. Common sense should have applied.

While there may be family friendly events at the Playboy Mansion, it is clear that *this* event was not one of them.

And frankly, there are two parents in this situation. If they couldn't find a nanny or babysitter, why didn't one of them stay home?
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: thedudeabides on November 02, 2012, 10:53:37 AM
There are just times when you need to exercise common sense. Are there family friendly events at the Mansion? Probably. Is the after hours Halloween costume party one of them? No.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Winterlight on November 02, 2012, 04:53:03 PM
From the event description itself: "You already know what to expect from a Kandy party - Hand-picked Kandy Girls in their s..e..x..i..e..s..t costumes, a sight and sound experience like no other, the most over-the-top production imaginable and much much more..

So while the invitation may have not explicitly stated "no kids," IMHO, it didn't need to, because of the adult nature of the party. Common sense should have applied.

While there may be family friendly events at the Playboy Mansion, it is clear that *this* event was not one of them.

And frankly, there are two parents in this situation. If they couldn't find a nanny or babysitter, why didn't one of them stay home?

This. It is pretty obviously not a child-friendly event.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: sunnygirl on November 05, 2012, 07:36:32 AM
I went through a brief phase of being a bit obsessed with that 'Girls Next Door' show and read all the tell-alls and Internet stuff. They definitely have kid-friendly events (the annual Easter party is supposed to be for kids/families; the Playmates and Girlfriends dress more modestly, there are activities designed for children, etc.). The Halloween party is the wildest and most X rated of the five big annual parties and not at all suitable for kids, although I guess a baby would be too young to know what's going on.

There's no way they'd invite a baby, though I am surprised he was allowed to bring the baby in. The security to get in is insane - you have to have an invite and ID which are checked at two different points, and apart from Hef's personal friends it's mostly celebs and hot women (but if you fall into the latter category and you show up having gained weight or not looking as hot as in your photos, you can still be turned away, even if you have an invite). An actress I was a fan of who's been on many men's magazine covers was invited once, but showed up with her uninvited husband who is a movie studio VP - he was not allowed in. So I guess they made allowances because he's a celeb, or perhaps he's friends with Hef. The party is outdoors so I hope they found a quiet room inside for him or perhaps one of the elderly female staffers offered to watch him.


Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: Drawberry on November 06, 2012, 06:24:11 PM
Personally it isn't the venue that I am really against, it's just a home with an old man and some young girls hanging around and doing whatever things I totally don't want to know about, but rather that it was likely a party that was not meant to be for children and the vibe of the event did not suit the baby at all.

I think it's not nearly as big of a deal as it seems just because it involves the Playboy mansion. Some parents made a poor choice of where to bring a very young child, they probably won't be bringing the baby to anymore high energy shindigs that for sure, but nothing that I feel is deserving of much attention.
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: afbluebelle on November 06, 2012, 08:32:16 PM
I just wish I had an invitation... I would go dressed up as a giant banana! And then win the costume for Most Dressed Lady  >:D
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: CakeEater on November 11, 2012, 05:14:39 AM
Klassy.

You win!
Title: Re: Bringing a Baby to an Adult Party
Post by: JeanFromBNA on November 12, 2012, 03:04:35 PM
All the nekkid women and partying aside, from what I can tell, Hugh Hefner is an impeccable host that takes etiquette very seriously.  I'm sure that he and his staff were just caught by surprise when a baby showed up.  Hef also has an infamous "do not admit" list for offenders. 

The article states that the Grammers couldn't find a babysitter, which implied that they knew that they should have had a babysitter.