Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 06:22:43 PM

Title: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 06:22:43 PM
My daughter had her first communion, I invited all of the family to a restaurant after the church part.

Background: I have been diagnosed with a skin condition recently, it makes my skin flushed and red.

At the communion party, I was trying to be polite and mingle/ talk to all guests and ensure they are having a good time. I went to talk to my BIL and sister. We were talking and he says "CRUD MONKEYS! your face is so red it looks like you have a red beard, I am serious".

I was so embarrassed and to be honest, I was speechless and walked away. I was so embarrassed and self conscious after that. This did not improve the red face I had-LOL.

I could hear my sister telling him across the room about my skin condition. At some point, he came over to apologize. Whatever, I just asked him why he would point that out publically. He said he didn't know I had this skin condition if he did, he wouldnt have said anything. I told him that even if I did not have a skin condition, I don't think he should have commented.
He said "I thought you would want to know"
Me "I have a mirror and can see what I look like"
HIM "Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"

I didnt want to waste anymore time on it. I was just trying to see WHY he would say that.
The night ended and I was done with it.
My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"

I am so upset right now and I told my sister. I was ready to drop this issue but seems BIL apologized then proceeded to defend what he said, which to me negates the apology. Then it seems my sister defends it too.
Am I overly sensitive as they tell me I am?
Please comment on whether you find what BIL said was rude or not.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: DottyG on November 19, 2012, 06:29:59 PM
Quote
Please comment on whether you find what BIL said was rude or not.

Absolutely.

And I guarantee "most people do NOT like how he is" - they're just more polite than he is and not using their own brutal honesty to tell him he's a jerk.
 
 
 
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 06:31:28 PM
I pretty much figured but they try to act like I am sensitive.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: DottyG on November 19, 2012, 06:34:20 PM
I really (really, REALLY) hate people using the word "sensitive" like most people do.  I get that trait attributed to me often as well.

Excuse me, but NO.  My reaction to your incredibly rude comment does not make me "sensitive."

Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: JenJay on November 19, 2012, 06:34:46 PM
He was rude. So what if his friends love his "brutal honesty", you don't. Hopefully he'll remember that and it won't be an issue again.  :(

I have rosacea which is under control now but when I was first diagnosed and trying different treatments it was really bad. I had bright red cheeks with a lot of little painful bumps on them. My Aunt walked up to me in the middle of a room full of people and said "Oh my gosh, what's wrong with your cheeks? That looks terrible!" I said "I have Rosacea." and she said "I know, I have it too, but I've never looked that bad!" Grrr.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: doodlemor on November 19, 2012, 06:35:02 PM
BIL is dreadfully rude.  He made an apology, and then negated it and put his foot in his mouth.  Your sister made it still worse by defending his nonsense.  Perhaps they deserve each other.

I think that cold politeness is in order here, until you feel more comfortable with this pair.

And haven't I read that blaming the victim's so-called sensitivity is a tool of bullies and abusers.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 06:35:54 PM
Yes, when they call us sensitive, it implies we are the problem. Life would be easier for them if we just let them say whatever the want.

I think I will be putting my BIL at a distance.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: andi on November 19, 2012, 06:36:05 PM
It was rude. If he had come over to you and QUIETLY said "not sure if you're aware, but your face is very flushed.  Are you ok?" tha t would hav been ok. Blasting it out in front of everyone wa a major "foot in mouth" moment and he should havoc apologized - not defended

I feel your pain - multiple surgeries on my nose to remove skin cancers has lef the top very red and it's very hard to cover for any length of time - I get tons of co dents about my "Roudolf nose" or sunburn or "what's up with your face?". Depending on the tone and situation I either go way medical or chill stre quiet on them
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: LeveeWoman on November 19, 2012, 06:36:44 PM
Accusing someone of being "sensitive" is the classic response of a bully when the person he insults takes exception.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 06:37:37 PM
He was rude. So what if his friends love his "brutal honesty", you don't. Hopefully he'll remember that and it won't be an issue again.  :(

I have rosacea which is under control now but when I was first diagnosed and trying different treatments it was really bad. I had bright red cheeks with a lot of little painful bumps on them. My Aunt walked up to me in the middle of a room full of people and said "Oh my gosh, what's wrong with your cheeks? That looks terrible!" I said "I have Rosacea." and she said "I know, I have it too, but I've never looked that bad!" Grrr.

I did say that to him " Your friends may like it, but I dont"

Your aunts sounds terrible.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: DottyG on November 19, 2012, 06:38:06 PM
Quote
If he had come over to you and QUIETLY said "not sure if you're aware, but your face is very flushed.  Are you ok?

I agree.  That would be concern for the OP - and wouldn't have embarrassed her (at least, not in the same way).  That would have been a more acceptable way of handling it - and, even then, only if he was truly concerned and not trying to be jerky about it.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 06:38:23 PM
BIL is dreadfully rude.  He made an apology, and then negated it and put his foot in his mouth.  Your sister made it still worse by defending his nonsense.  Perhaps they deserve each other.

I think that cold politeness is in order here, until you feel more comfortable with this pair.

And haven't I read that blaming the victim's so-called sensitivity is a tool of bullies and abusers.

I fully agree.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 06:40:09 PM
It was rude. If he had come over to you and QUIETLY said "not sure if you're aware, but your face is very flushed.  Are you ok?" tha t would hav been ok. Blasting it out in front of everyone wa a major "foot in mouth" moment and he should havoc apologized - not defended

I feel your pain - multiple surgeries on my nose to remove skin cancers has lef the top very red and it's very hard to cover for any length of time - I get tons of co dents about my "Roudolf nose" or sunburn or "what's up with your face?". Depending on the tone and situation I either go way medical or chill stre quiet on them

That would have been the proper way for him to act if he was concerned. I agree.
He is the type of guy who makes jokes about others often, at their expense.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: JenJay on November 19, 2012, 06:42:37 PM
He was rude. So what if his friends love his "brutal honesty", you don't. Hopefully he'll remember that and it won't be an issue again.  :(

I have rosacea which is under control now but when I was first diagnosed and trying different treatments it was really bad. I had bright red cheeks with a lot of little painful bumps on them. My Aunt walked up to me in the middle of a room full of people and said "Oh my gosh, what's wrong with your cheeks? That looks terrible!" I said "I have Rosacea." and she said "I know, I have it too, but I've never looked that bad!" Grrr.

I did say that to him " Your friends may like it, but I dont"

Your aunts sounds terrible.

She can be frustrating! She goes through life thinking there are two types of people - those who agree with her and those who are wrong.  ::)
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: doodlemor on November 19, 2012, 06:56:35 PM
HIM "Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"


My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"


I think that some ehell/classic phrases would be useful for the next time BIL is up to his "brutal honesty."

You could use.......

How kind of you to take an interest in my personal business.

What an interesting assumption.

So you say.

If you need to repeat any stock phrases try repeating the phrase slower and more coldly with each repetition.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: DottyG on November 19, 2012, 07:04:43 PM
^ Yeah.  That.

Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: wolfie on November 19, 2012, 07:05:01 PM

My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"


Really? I have never been to a party where anyone was TOLD they were the life of the party. And I certainly don't know of anyone who would tell someone else they had the best personality there - unless maybe it was a pick up line. I think someone is rightfully feeling guilty and defensive.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: buvezdevin on November 19, 2012, 07:25:33 PM
He was rude, boorish and generally unpleasant.

Your sister's summary of the two of them being called the life of the party suggests two, not mutually exclusive possibilities:

1.  They keep company with equally poorly mannered company; and/or
2.  People commented that they were lively, and out of politeness did not add "and remarkably socially inept and inconsiderate!"

I agree that having some prepared comments in advance of seeing them in future would be wise.

I would be tempted to reply to any further of BIL's inappropriately communicated observations with:  "and did you know that frequently, when confronted with poorly behaved people, better behaved people often do not criticize but simply deflect them?  Knee jerk sympathy for jerks, or smoothing social interaction. Bean dip?"

Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: gramma dishes on November 19, 2012, 07:41:55 PM
"I'm not exceptionally sensitive.  You're just exceptionally rude."

Walk away.

Well, he says he likes blunt!!
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 07:53:18 PM

My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"


Really? I have never been to a party where anyone was TOLD they were the life of the party. And I certainly don't know of anyone who would tell someone else they had the best personality there - unless maybe it was a pick up line. I think someone is rightfully feeling guilty and defensive.

My thought exactly. Like who actually says these things. It doesn't sound like a normal/ natural comment.   
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 07:56:16 PM
I am thinking someone may have commented that they were fun. Then my sister made that into a comment it wasnt.
If someone said that to me, I would find it odd.

Either way, it doesn't mean they aren't rude.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 07:56:34 PM
"I'm not exceptionally sensitive.  You're just exceptionally rude."

Walk away.

Well, he says he likes blunt!!

love it
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Emmy on November 19, 2012, 08:11:37 PM
I honestly don't think most people would appreciate somebody so rude.  Also, shame on your sister for that phone call.  Honestly, I think it is great when people have a such a thick skin that they can let insults just roll of their back.  Most people aren't like that.  If BIL doesn't mind when people point out that he's fat, good for him.  If he has friends who also don't mind trading insults, that's fine if that's how it works for their friendship.  However, he needs to be sensitive that the majority of people don't enjoy having such things pointed out, especially in public.  Has your sister ever complained about him treating her that way?
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 08:14:58 PM
I honestly don't think most people would appreciate somebody so rude.  Also, shame on your sister for that phone call.  Honestly, I think it is great when people have a such a thick skin that they can let insults just roll of their back.  Most people aren't like that.  If BIL doesn't mind when people point out that he's fat, good for him.  If he has friends who also don't mind trading insults, that's fine if that's how it works for their friendship.  However, he needs to be sensitive that the majority of people don't enjoy having such things pointed out, especially in public.  Has your sister ever complained about him treating her that way?

My sister has never complained about that, but she does like to act like he is a perfect husband.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: WillyNilly on November 19, 2012, 08:16:02 PM
"Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"

Does your BIL know what the word "brutal" means?  Because really?  Very few people enjoy any type of brutality socially.

On the upshot if your BIL describes himself as brutal, you have essentially been given permission to call him, and treat him, as a brute.

Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: dawbs on November 19, 2012, 08:19:33 PM
I can never remember who said it, but to quote someone wiser than I am:

"people who pride themselves on their brutal honesty enjoy the brutality at least as much, and usually more than, the honesty."
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Onyx_TKD on November 19, 2012, 08:27:14 PM
My daughter had her first communion, I invited all of the family to a restaurant after the church part.

Background: I have been diagnosed with a skin condition recently, it makes my skin flushed and red.

At the communion party, I was trying to be polite and mingle/ talk to all guests and ensure they are having a good time. I went to talk to my BIL and sister. We were talking and he says "CRUD MONKEYS! your face is so red it looks like you have a red beard, I am serious".

I was so embarrassed and to be honest, I was speechless and walked away. I was so embarrassed and self conscious after that. This did not improve the red face I had-LOL.

I could hear my sister telling him across the room about my skin condition. At some point, he came over to apologize. Whatever, I just asked him why he would point that out publically. He said he didn't know I had this skin condition if he did, he wouldnt have said anything. I told him that even if I did not have a skin condition, I don't think he should have commented.
He said "I thought you would want to know"
Me "I have a mirror and can see what I look like"
HIM "Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"

I didnt want to waste anymore time on it. I was just trying to see WHY he would say that.
The night ended and I was done with it.
My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"

I am so upset right now and I told my sister. I was ready to drop this issue but seems BIL apologized then proceeded to defend what he said, which to me negates the apology. Then it seems my sister defends it too.
Am I overly sensitive as they tell me I am?
Please comment on whether you find what BIL said was rude or not.

For people who value "brutal honesty," your sister and BIL sure are hung up on the what other people think of them. They can't handle one person not liking a comment to the point that they go out of their way to call up and tell that person they were "the life of [someone else's] party"? Wow.

You were the one able to let the rude comment roll off your back and just walk away instead of having a confrontation. You were the one who handled the confrontation calmly and politely when it happened anyway. They're the ones who days later are still traumatized that you don't think their every comment or opinion is just the most awesomest comment or opinion in the world. I don't think you're the oversensitive one here.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 08:47:31 PM
Yes they have always do get very hung up on what people think.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Surianne on November 19, 2012, 09:03:14 PM
I could hear my sister telling him across the room about my skin condition. At some point, he came over to apologize. Whatever, I just asked him why he would point that out publically. He said he didn't know I had this skin condition if he did, he wouldnt have said anything. I told him that even if I did not have a skin condition, I don't think he should have commented.

Why not accept his apology in the first place?  He was wrong and made a mistake, but he did apologize, and I can see why he got a bit defensive once you refused to accept it and continue to argue the matter.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 19, 2012, 09:14:57 PM
I felt I accepted it, but I wanted to now why he did that?
It was important for me to know his motivation for saying that.
It went downhill the more he talked.


I am not obligated to accept an apology that may not be genuine.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Surianne on November 19, 2012, 09:16:45 PM
Oh, okay, I missed the part where you accepted it. 
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: EmmaJ. on November 19, 2012, 09:19:59 PM
<snip>

HIM "Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"


He feels the need to tell someone they are balding or they need braces?  Why??  Is he worried they might not realize it?

He is being a jerk.   >:(
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: cicero on November 20, 2012, 01:53:44 AM
are you my other sister?

our BIL (my third sister's husband) is like that - horribly rude and then when he gets called on it he pulls the ol' "you are so sensitive" nonpology card.

your BIL was very rude to you. even if I could imagine that he was just 'trying to be helpful' - when you told him that he was rude, he (and his wife) should have dropped it. based on their stories - he is just a jerk.

I felt I accepted it, but I wanted to now why he did that?
It was important for me to know his motivation for saying that.
It went downhill the more he talked.


I am not obligated to accept an apology that may not be genuine.

he does this because he is an insensitive jerk. his motivation is that by making others feel bad/small/embarressed - he feels better about himself.

there really is nothing you can do about this except limit your dealings with him/them. I tend to ignore my BIL when i have to be in the same room - other than "hello" and "goodbye", I try not to have any further dealings with him because you never know when he will go into one of his rants.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: oz diva on November 20, 2012, 02:08:41 AM
What I always find so annoying about people like your BIL is how sensitive they are to criticism about themselves. If you want to dish it out, you should be prepared to receive it back.

Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Amava on November 20, 2012, 02:15:44 AM

My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"


Really? I have never been to a party where anyone was TOLD they were the life of the party. And I certainly don't know of anyone who would tell someone else they had the best personality there - unless maybe it was a pick up line. I think someone is rightfully feeling guilty and defensive.

Maybe they missed the big ol' sarcasm sign someone was holding up. Because I can totally see myself telling someone: "Oh, bless your heart, you always /are/ the life of the party, aren't you" to someone who is being too boisterous and overstepping in company.

Theresa, I am really sorry someone said something so stupid to you on an otherwise lovely day. It's really not you, it's him. But you already knew that from all the other posters who have posted before me.  :)
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: girlysprite on November 20, 2012, 02:28:16 AM
Reminds me a bit of my own brother and SIL. He also takes pride in his 'honesty', and will justify himself with e opinions of his friends. Keep in mind that such people often hear and remember things very differently from how they were said, which the other posters gave good examples of.

Next time he does this, maybe a shrug and a 'I don't care for your opinion' be ok? If he likes brutal honesty, see if he can take it too.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: camlan on November 20, 2012, 05:51:12 AM
Ah, yes, the "You are too sensitive," card. Played by people who know they have overstepped the boundaries of polite behavior, but who will never, ever admit that they might have done something wrong. Because that would make them feel bad. While they have no problem making other people feel bad, they don't much like feeling bad themselves.

Try, "And you are not sensitive enough," in reply, in a calm, gentle voice, with a pleasant smile. Then just walk away.

If your sister tries to bring up how much other people just lllllooovvvveeee this aspect of BIL's personality, you are free to point out that you, personally, don't. And now that both your sister and BIL know this, it would of course be rude for him to act this way towards you in the future. After all, they are expecting you to make allowances for BIL's personality. Surely they will understand that he must do the same for you?
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: cicero on November 20, 2012, 06:01:13 AM

Try, "And you are not sensitive enough," in reply, in a calm, gentle voice, with a pleasant smile. Then just walk away.

I am *so* stealing this from you for next time i have to see my BIL.

(also, when he accused me of not having a sense of humor "what's your problem? I was just joking! don't you have a sense a humor?" i replied "i *do* have a sense of humor. but what you said was *not* funny").
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Emmy on November 20, 2012, 06:19:50 AM
My daughter had her first communion, I invited all of the family to a restaurant after the church part.

Background: I have been diagnosed with a skin condition recently, it makes my skin flushed and red.

At the communion party, I was trying to be polite and mingle/ talk to all guests and ensure they are having a good time. I went to talk to my BIL and sister. We were talking and he says "CRUD MONKEYS! your face is so red it looks like you have a red beard, I am serious".

I was so embarrassed and to be honest, I was speechless and walked away. I was so embarrassed and self conscious after that. This did not improve the red face I had-LOL.

I could hear my sister telling him across the room about my skin condition. At some point, he came over to apologize. Whatever, I just asked him why he would point that out publically. He said he didn't know I had this skin condition if he did, he wouldnt have said anything. I told him that even if I did not have a skin condition, I don't think he should have commented.
He said "I thought you would want to know"
Me "I have a mirror and can see what I look like"
HIM "Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"

I didnt want to waste anymore time on it. I was just trying to see WHY he would say that.
The night ended and I was done with it.
My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"

I am so upset right now and I told my sister. I was ready to drop this issue but seems BIL apologized then proceeded to defend what he said, which to me negates the apology. Then it seems my sister defends it too.
Am I overly sensitive as they tell me I am?
Please comment on whether you find what BIL said was rude or not.

For people who value "brutal honesty," your sister and BIL sure are hung up on the what other people think of them. They can't handle one person not liking a comment to the point that they go out of their way to call up and tell that person they were "the life of [someone else's] party"? Wow.

You were the one able to let the rude comment roll off your back and just walk away instead of having a confrontation. You were the one who handled the confrontation calmly and politely when it happened anyway. They're the ones who days later are still traumatized that you don't think their every comment or opinion is just the most awesomest comment or opinion in the world. I don't think you're the oversensitive one here.

That's a really good point.  BIL prides himself on his brutal honesty being a positive personality trait and he doesn't mind when people are this way with him, but can't accept it when somebody is brutally honest with him about his rudeness.  Maybe he thinks this is his only way to make others laugh and to shine at parties (although I doubt most people enjoy his comments the way he says they do).  If he really appreciated brutal honesty, he wouldn't be so bothered by what you said.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Roe on November 20, 2012, 06:40:28 AM
I imagine your BIL goes to the party and asks others "I'm the life of the party, right?"  So of course others feel obligated to say "yes, of course." 

Those that "dish it" usually can't take it. 

OP, I'd go with "I'm not interested in hearing your opinion."  When he accuses you of being 'rude' then you can say "My goodness, you are being too sensitive" and walk away.

He will care that his opinion isn't valued.  These types always do.  They are quite insecure in themselves and that's one reason for their rudeness.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: AuntyEm on November 20, 2012, 06:43:33 AM
Sounds like he is a big clueless oaf.  Too bad it is those kind of comments that stick in your head.  :-\  Why is it that there is always someone who needs to point out things like that?  I'm sure on the days when you are looking especially fabulous, he doesn't run over to let you know. Love grammadishes response.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Hmmmmm on November 20, 2012, 07:02:35 AM

My sister (his wife) calls me and says that after the communion, they went to a friend's party and "we were told we were the life of the party and a lady even complimented us on having the best personailities there. See most people like the way BIL is"


Really? I have never been to a party where anyone was TOLD they were the life of the party. And I certainly don't know of anyone who would tell someone else they had the best personality there - unless maybe it was a pick up line. I think someone is rightfully feeling guilty and defensive.

Exactly what I was thinking.  I can only imagine remarks like that at an event as being condescending and really meaning "You and your DH don't really belong in our circle of friends, put you have the personalities of cute puppies so we'll let you hang around to entertain us."
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Yvaine on November 20, 2012, 07:05:52 AM
Maybe they missed the big ol' sarcasm sign someone was holding up. Because I can totally see myself telling someone: "Oh, bless your heart, you always /are/ the life of the party, aren't you" to someone who is being too boisterous and overstepping in company.

This is pretty much what I was picturing too.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 20, 2012, 07:18:30 AM
<snip>

HIM "Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"


He feels the need to tell someone they are balding or they need braces?  Why??  Is he worried they might not realize it?

He is being a jerk.   >:(

yes he thinks they may not know and they would appreciate him telling them.
I dont get it either, people know what they look like without his comments. I have no idea what he is thinking.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Zilla on November 20, 2012, 07:34:19 AM
Definitely rude.  He could at most say quietly, "You look really flushed, are you okay?" or some variation.
 
And if he says sorry, I am just brutally honest.  You can say back the same.  And I am also honest, it hurt my feelings and I don't appreciate your brand of honesty.  If your sister calls to defend him, tell her there is nothing to defend. It's her husband and she is the one that has to live with him.  If he wants to be brutally honest and share his opinions, then you can do the same and tell them if you are offended/hurt.  Why is it okay for him to be honest and not you?
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: It's good to be Queen on November 20, 2012, 09:03:46 AM
Of course he was rude!  It is never polite to comment negatively on someone's appearance unless it is something they can correct (spinach in the teeth , skirt tucked into panytyhose, etc.).  A quite, concerned comment is acceptable from someone you are close to, but that is it.

You BIL sounds like a charmer - I can just image how pleased his friends are when he announces to the whole room, "Hey, you are getting bald!"  And how is the recipient of that comment supposed to respond, by running out and buying a hairpiece?
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Twik on November 20, 2012, 09:40:55 AM
EvilTwik would, every time she sees BIL again, give him a scan and announce loudly, "Crivins, BIL, you've gotten even FATTER! Soon, you'll need a crane just to leave the house! What a blob you are!"

I suspect that he will not like it nearly as much as he pretends to.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Bijou on November 20, 2012, 10:47:14 AM
To your sister I would say, "There is no need for you to feel you have to call and try to excuse his indefensible social clumsiness.  You did nothing wrong.  I am just sorry for you, having to deal with never knowing what is coming out of his mouth next."
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: TurtleDove on November 20, 2012, 10:54:56 AM
I could hear my sister telling him across the room about my skin condition. At some point, he came over to apologize. Whatever, I just asked him why he would point that out publically. He said he didn't know I had this skin condition if he did, he wouldnt have said anything. I told him that even if I did not have a skin condition, I don't think he should have commented.

Why not accept his apology in the first place?  He was wrong and made a mistake, but he did apologize, and I can see why he got a bit defensive once you refused to accept it and continue to argue the matter.

I read it the same way Surianne did (no acceptance of the apology but rather a focus on calling out how horrible the BIL was).  I think the BIL was out of line (as was his wife), absolutely, but I also think saying "whatever" to the apology (essentially rejecting it) and demanding an explanation in public was not the right way to handle it, especially because to me it seemed he did explain that he didn't know you had a medical issue and would not have said anything had he known.  I'm sorry this all happened, OP.  In the future I think it's best to just accept an apology and move forward.  Given the conversation you posted I can absolutely see why the BIL and your sister got defensive.  It doesn't make their actions okay, but it also seems to indicate you could have handled the situation differently and probably avoided a lot of the tension.  A simple, "thank you for apologizing - it did hurt my feeelings" would have gone a long way I think. 
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: weeblewobble on November 20, 2012, 11:49:48 AM
Anytime someone talks about how beloved they are, my manure-meter goes off.  And trust me, no one loves you for "brutally" observing their flaws.  If anything, the smile on the victim's face when such an observation is made is a nervous response to not knowing what else to do.

And frankly, I think Sis does know exactly how obnoxious BIL's behavior is, otherwise she wouldn't have felt it necessary to call you and further justify his awesomeness.

For now, if you feel like it, acknowledge the apology and say, " You hurt my feelings. Thank you for apologizing."  If he starts in on his "honesty" at future gatherings, you can tell him that a family reunion isn't the appropriate time for his brand of "honesty."  You're just being honest with him, right?   >:D
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 20, 2012, 12:26:52 PM
I could hear my sister telling him across the room about my skin condition. At some point, he came over to apologize. Whatever, I just asked him why he would point that out publically. He said he didn't know I had this skin condition if he did, he wouldnt have said anything. I told him that even if I did not have a skin condition, I don't think he should have commented.

Why not accept his apology in the first place?  He was wrong and made a mistake, but he did apologize, and I can see why he got a bit defensive once you refused to accept it and continue to argue the matter.

I read it the same way Surianne did (no acceptance of the apology but rather a focus on calling out how horrible the BIL was).  I think the BIL was out of line (as was his wife), absolutely, but I also think saying "whatever" to the apology (essentially rejecting it) and demanding an explanation in public was not the right way to handle it, especially because to me it seemed he did explain that he didn't know you had a medical issue and would not have said anything had he known.  I'm sorry this all happened, OP.  In the future I think it's best to just accept an apology and move forward.  Given the conversation you posted I can absolutely see why the BIL and your sister got defensive.  It doesn't make their actions okay, but it also seems to indicate you could have handled the situation differently and probably avoided a lot of the tension.  A simple, "thank you for apologizing - it did hurt my feeelings" would have gone a long way I think.
i didnt actually say whatever, i thought it. it certainly didnt feel he was genuine. Plus, even with no skin condition, i would NOT want it publically pointed out.
Maybe the fact that i know him, enables me to know, he isnt really sorry.
Could I have handled it differently=YES absolutely.

However, I do not regret wanting to know what he was thinking when he said that. I would ask again. Sometimes it helps me understand people better when they explain why they did something. In this case, it didnt.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 20, 2012, 12:29:18 PM
EvilTwik would, every time she sees BIL again, give him a scan and announce loudly, "Crivins, BIL, you've gotten even FATTER! Soon, you'll need a crane just to leave the house! What a blob you are!"

I suspect that he will not like it nearly as much as he pretends to.

I would love to do that but I never could!
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 20, 2012, 12:30:56 PM
To your sister I would say, "There is no need for you to feel you have to call and try to excuse his indefensible social clumsiness.  You did nothing wrong.  I am just sorry for you, having to deal with never knowing what is coming out of his mouth next."

I feel when she defends him, she is justifying his behavior. To be honest, I am not enjoying his company these days due to several examples like this.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 20, 2012, 12:32:50 PM
Of course he was rude!  It is never polite to comment negatively on someone's appearance unless it is something they can correct (spinach in the teeth , skirt tucked into panytyhose, etc.).  A quite, concerned topic is acceptable from someone you are close to, but that is it.

You BIL sounds like a charmer - I can just image how pleased his friends are when he announces to the whole room, "Hey, you are getting bald!"  And how is the recipient of that comment supposed to respond, by running out and buying a hairpiece?

One time, he was at his doctor's for a physical and he told his doctor "your teeth are crooked, I am surprised you never got braces". The doctor was speechless.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: magicdomino on November 20, 2012, 02:05:16 PM
Of course he was rude!  It is never polite to comment negatively on someone's appearance unless it is something they can correct (spinach in the teeth , skirt tucked into panytyhose, etc.).  A quite, concerned topic is acceptable from someone you are close to, but that is it.

You BIL sounds like a charmer - I can just image how pleased his friends are when he announces to the whole room, "Hey, you are getting bald!"  And how is the recipient of that comment supposed to respond, by running out and buying a hairpiece?

One time, he was at his doctor's for a physical and he told his doctor "your teeth are crooked, I am surprised you never got braces". The doctor was speechless.

That is soooo asking for a prostate exam and colonoscopy (sp?).  Do not insult the doctor!  ;)
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: TootsNYC on November 20, 2012, 02:14:39 PM
I felt I accepted it, but I wanted to now why he did that?
It was important for me to know his motivation for saying that.
It went downhill the more he talked.


I am not obligated to accept an apology that may not be genuine.

I don't think that continuing to discuss the offense is a part of accepting the apology. At least, not AFTER accepting it.

Next time, I might suggest you say, "I'm still too hurt and too angry to accept your apology. I need to ask you to think about apologizing later, after I've gotten over this. Then I'll be able to explain why I am so hurt."

One thing I've learned by being a parent: asking someone "why" they did something is just not a good move. They don't know why. Or if they do know why, they don't want to admit it. So don't even go there.


It puts them on the spot, and frankly it's the equivalent of scolding.

Stick w/ "I" statements. Like: "That really shocked and upset me." "That made me tremendously self-conscious, right in the middle of my party." "I felt angry that you couldn't just let me alone, it felt to me like you were picking at my appearance right where everybody else could here." "That comment didn't feel concerned, to me--it just felt critical." "I find it hard to enjoy the party, now that you've pointed out how funny I look."

It's OK to sound a little bit mad, I think. But don't get into HIS motivation--that's really just scolding (which you'd admit if you really looked at it), and nobody reacts well to being scolded. Grownups least of all.

Even though it's a bit parental, it would be better to say something like this:  "In the future, please do not comment on my appearance. There's nothing you or I can do about it right at that moment, it's not like my shirt could be tucked in or something. And if you're genuinely concerned for my health, please speak to me *in private,* not in the middle of party when everyone can hear it."
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: theresa on November 20, 2012, 07:18:42 PM
It may come off as scolding but I dont see it to be honest. I really feel I need to understand (did they mean to be hurtful, did it come out wrong, did they have some other thought that make logical sense as to why they said that, were they trying to be funny, did they not really mean for it to come out like that).

Otherwise, I dont understand and it's harder to forgive. If people dont know why they did something, what would stop them from doing it again. I dont think an explanation is too much to ask.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: O'Dell on November 20, 2012, 07:29:15 PM
I don't see anything wrong with asking why he would say something like that. But now you have your answer...he's a jerk!...so no need to ask again.

You say that it's a habit of his that's already driving you to avoid him? Time to be cool toward him and a bit guarded. You might have at the ready a deadpan "okay" in response to his nasty comments and any defensive remarks from him or your sister.

"Your face is red"
"okay"

"I'm not rude. I'm the life of the party!"
"okay"

(Snarky O'Dell would go with "okay, if you say so" but she doesn't have many friends :P)
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: JeanFromBNA on November 20, 2012, 09:56:57 PM
Sounds like he is a big clueless oaf.  Too bad it is those kind of comments that stick in your head.  :-\  Why is it that there is always someone who needs to point out things like that?  I'm sure on the days when you are looking especially fabulous, he doesn't run over to let you know. Love grammadishes response.

Well, you can comment that he certainly has a tremendous sense of the obvious. 

What a jerk. 

threadjack:  I have prominent chemical burns on my left arm, and this summer I decided I was going to wear sleeveless tops in the heat, and everyone else was going to have to deal.  A couple of the scars became re-infected, and had to be treated - right before our trip to Walt Disney World.  So I bandaged up and wore my sleeveless tops anyway.  I was in a bathroom washing my hands, when I noticed a girl, about 7 or 8 I guess, couldn't take her eyes off of my arm.  Finally, she blurted out, "what happened to your arm?"  I replied, "Alligator wrestling.  It's not as easy as it looks."  Her jaw dropped.   ;D /threadjack
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: 25wishes on November 21, 2012, 07:09:44 AM
Why is it that the people who pride themselves on their frankness and honesty, never seem to have anything GOOD to say?
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: JenJay on November 21, 2012, 10:41:29 AM
Why is it that the people who pride themselves on their frankness and honesty, never seem to have anything GOOD to say?

That is a stunningly accurate point! It never occurred to me before but you are so right. OP, you should say that to him next time he brags about his "brutal honesty". It's along the lines of the other posters who pointed out "Why is his honesty so brutal?"
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: artk2002 on November 21, 2012, 12:37:15 PM
HIM "Most of my friends appreciate my brutal honesty. I tell them they are balding, that they need braces or whatever and they never get this sensitive. People tell me I am fat and I dont get mad"

"I'm not *most* of your friends. I don't appreciate it. Don't ever do it with me again."

Or

"Here's some brutal honesty for you. You are rude and hurtful. Stop."  (Dollars to donuts he's one who can dish it out but can't take it.)

The argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy. Just because lots of people believe it, or say it, doesn't make it true. He's rude, pure and simple.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: oz diva on November 25, 2012, 11:04:50 PM
A good friend of mine has a skin condition, but I don't know exactly what it is. Because I have never asked. It's obvious that she has it, but it's none of my business. She still lives a very full and active life and it doesn't seem to worry her at all. I don't know why people feel the need to comment on every negative thing about someone. Just mind your own dingdangity business. We all know our shortcomings, we don't need them pointed out by a random stranger, or even a good friend. (or our mothers  ::) )
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: oz diva on November 25, 2012, 11:10:08 PM
Sounds like he is a big clueless oaf.  Too bad it is those kind of comments that stick in your head.  :-\  Why is it that there is always someone who needs to point out things like that?  I'm sure on the days when you are looking especially fabulous, he doesn't run over to let you know. Love grammadishes response.

Well, you can comment that he certainly has a tremendous sense of the obvious. 

What a jerk. 

threadjack:  I have prominent chemical burns on my left arm, and this summer I decided I was going to wear sleeveless tops in the heat, and everyone else was going to have to deal.  A couple of the scars became re-infected, and had to be treated - right before our trip to Walt Disney World.  So I bandaged up and wore my sleeveless tops anyway.  I was in a bathroom washing my hands, when I noticed a girl, about 7 or 8 I guess, couldn't take her eyes off of my arm.  Finally, she blurted out, "what happened to your arm?"  I replied, "Alligator wrestling.  It's not as easy as it looks."  Her jaw dropped.   ;D /threadjack
Great response, but you can take it from a kid, even one as old as 8. They're naturally curious. An adult should mind their manners.

I remember being entranced by a man with one leg at a swimming pool once. He was perfectly good natured about it as he look his prosthetic off to go swimming and I stared and stared. I was about 5.
Title: Re: comments on my skin
Post by: Sophia on November 26, 2012, 12:39:59 PM
...I remember being entranced by a man with one leg at a swimming pool once. He was perfectly good natured about it as he look his prosthetic off to go swimming and I stared and stared. I was about 5.

This last weekend I heard a talk about Computer Vision and Gesturing, e.g.  You might point a finger a finger to the ceiling and your TV volume goes up.  Someone asked what would happen if someone was missing a finger and tried that.  The answer was that the computer would ignore anything it didn't recognize.  Unlike the human brain that focuses on new objects.  The human brain wants to know precisely what this new and weird variation is.  Even without trying, you would have eventually ignored him.