Etiquette Hell

A Civil World. Off-topic discussions on a variety of topics. Guests, register for forum membership to see all the boards. => Time For a Coffee Break! => Topic started by: weeblewobble on November 24, 2012, 10:11:23 AM

Title: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: weeblewobble on November 24, 2012, 10:11:23 AM
So I've come to the conclusion that the only way to respond to PA comments is to give that person what they "want."  When someone makes a PA all-encompassing statement, like, "You won't let me stay at your house for the entire month of June?  Fine, I just won't come to visit you ever again!"  They're expecting you to scramble back to a position where they're not mad at you any more, i.e., "Oh, no, it's not that big of a deal. Please just move into the master bedroom right now."  They get what they want by making you feel guilty and threatening the security of your relationship.

But when you say, "OK, then" and agree to their statement, it takes away all of their power.  Recent real-life examples:

- My relative, Susan, has struggled with her mom's PA behavior for years.  Susan's father recently lost his job due to hostile behavior in the office.  A few years ago, when Susan and her husband, George, were going through typical "early married" financial problems, her mother told Susan that asking family members for loans JUST WASN'T DONE in their family.  Susan was hurt that her mother would say something like that before Susan even asked for help and the tone was "We don't want to help you, so don't ask."  Father has been out of work for two weeks. Now, Mother is sending Susan texts like, "We'd usually go out for dinner on Friday nights, now we're having cold sandwiches.  Sure would be nice if someone sent us a restaurant gift card!"  or "I'm not even bothering with Black Friday this year.  Sure would be nice if Santa sent us Christmas money!" Susan responded with, "That would be nice." to both. (Please note that these people aren't hungry or suffering.  Susan's parents live a very "brand conscious" lifestyle and there are plenty of things they can do to scale back.  Not to mention items they can sell for extra cash.)

At Thanksgiving, which Susan hosted, Mother informed Susan, "It would be nice if you gave us some spending cash.  Otherwise, we're not going to be able to afford Christmas gifts this year.  And if that happens, I don't think we'll even bother coming over for Christmas."  Susan said, "Well, we would miss you."  Mother sulked and said maybe they would come over after all.

- (I mentioned this story in another thread.)  My mom told me a story yesterday.  Mom's friend, Linda's, has a MIL that hates her.  MIL routinely tells Linda and Don, the wrong time for holiday meals, telling the rest of the family another time.  So when Linda and Don arrive (15-20 minutes before the time MIL told them) they find that the whole family has already eaten.  MIL says, "Oh, the food was ready a little early, so we decided to eat without you." It's clear that the food is cold and has been sitting out for a while. Linda and Don are expected to piece together a plate from the leftovers.  This has happened at almost every holiday since they got engaged four years ago.

So this year, Don asked his mom what time Thanksgiving will be held.  He says, "Mom, please don't serve dinner early, before the time you've given me and Linda.  It's upsetting for us to get there and find that you've already eaten." Mom huffed, "Well, if it's so upsetting, you shouldn't come at all." expecting Don to backpedal.  Instead, he said, "OK, then." and hung up.

Cue dozens of (ignored) calls to Don's cell from MIL.  And more calls from family members telling Don how much he had upset MIL by hanging up on her and telling her he wouldn't come to Thanksgiving.  Don has been telling them, "Mom told me not to come.  So I'm not coming."

Does this work for anyone else?  Any stories that further support my theory?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: girlysprite on November 24, 2012, 10:35:31 AM
I don't have big war stories like you do, but I do agree with the basic idea. Sometimes i have had people huff at me with a line like 'well I won't ever (insert thing here) again!'. My response is usually along e lines of 'is that a promise?'. This usually makes them quite the conversation, walk out of the room, or something else like that, and i'm totally fine with that. And if it's really needed, I will remind them of what they said at a later time, though I usually don't.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: GratefulMaria on November 24, 2012, 11:29:02 AM
My mother and I talk every day by phone; I place the calls, and she screens them.  She used to use the "Goodbye Cruel Daughter" approach a few years ago.  When I raised something she didn't feel she could handle, she'd say "Well, I guess we're better off never talking to each other again."  It threw me the first time or so she said it, then I came up with "Whatever you need."  So I'd just call the next day as though it were business as usual -- no "please forgive me" or "please answer the phone" -- and leave it up to her whether to pick up or not.  She always did.  Business as usual.

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Deetee on November 24, 2012, 12:52:21 PM
No awesome stories here, but every time I read about PA people I always think of my daughter stalking away and yelling "I'm not going to talk to you ever again!" . She is almost 4, so I figure that is the emotional age of people with those threats.

My (now deceased) grandma had one that I never learned to respond to. I would tell her about things and if I told her about something extra good (graduation, new job, new apartment), she would nod and then say "Now is the time for me to die". Bit of a conversation killer that one.

I remember calling my mom after one of these visits quite upset and worried. I was 20 at the time and living in the same city as my grandma so was visiting on my own for the first time. My mom laughed and told me "That's what she said when you were born. She still seems to be here"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on November 24, 2012, 01:01:22 PM

...   My (now deceased) grandma had one that I never learned to respond to. I would tell her about things and if I told her about something extra good (graduation, new job, new apartment), she would nod and then say "Now is the time for me to die". Bit of a conversation killer that one.

I remember calling my mom after one of these visits quite upset and worried. I was 20 at the time and living in the same city as my grandma so was visiting on my own for the first time. My mom laughed and told me "That's what she said when you were born. She still seems to be here"

Is it at all possible that maybe what your Grandmother may have meant was that since everything was so WONDERFUL, she could die right then and die happy knowing all was right in the her world?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on November 24, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
Re:  The Susan story

Apparently what the mother meant when she said 'asking family for loans just wasn't done in their family' was that their family doesn't give loans, but outright gifts of money are not only happily accepted but absolutely expected!!  Well, if they're the recipients, of course.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Deetee on November 24, 2012, 01:07:26 PM

...   My (now deceased) grandma had one that I never learned to respond to. I would tell her about things and if I told her about something extra good (graduation, new job, new apartment), she would nod and then say "Now is the time for me to die". Bit of a conversation killer that one.

I remember calling my mom after one of these visits quite upset and worried. I was 20 at the time and living in the same city as my grandma so was visiting on my own for the first time. My mom laughed and told me "That's what she said when you were born. She still seems to be here"

Is it at all possible that maybe what your Grandmother may have meant was that since everything was so WONDERFUL, she could die right then and die happy knowing all was right in the her world?

With another person, the words could totally mean that, but the tone was not one of warm contentment, more resigned misery. (I think the undercurrent was-no one needs me, I have done my part, I might as well be dead). She was a very unhappy and difficult woman who really had little to talk about or think about except her own unhappiness. I left every visit cranky, wrung out and promising myself that I would not spent my retirement confined to my apartment and wrapped in my own miserable thoughts.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on November 24, 2012, 01:30:56 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Adelaide on November 24, 2012, 01:32:18 PM
My father's mother is very PA, but she won't ask for things outright. I had a week "off" (not really, it was mostly studying) for Thanksgiving and I had coffee/dessert with her and some other relatives planned for Thanksgiving. Before coming in I told her that was the only day I could see her and that I would be very busy. I landed at 10 p.m. and the next day around 6 p.m. she called and started saying how glad she was that I was home but "I would have thought I'd have seen you by now!" I just replied "I know, right? I'm just so busy with school work. I would have thought I'd get a real break too, but I don't."

My father is relatively PA now that I'm an adult. He's always been self-centered and gets his feelings hurt very easily, but always frames it in some moral lecture about he was teaching us a lesson/wanted us to think about what Deity would do/was just bringing it up to illustrate how we shouldn't treat people in our lives a certain way. Now, however, he won't outright say that he's offended. Once he got angry at something I said. (To this day I don't think I was in the wrong, but it's a long story.) He started giving me the "You won't have any friends if you treat people like this" lecture and then asked if I had anything I wanted to say to him. I said no. Really? No. Nothing I wanted to apologize for? No. Anything else? No. He hasn't brought it up again.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Deetee on November 24, 2012, 01:39:23 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D

Terribly, terribly tempted. I used to say it in my head. It made me feel much better. It never did pass my lips.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on November 24, 2012, 01:48:02 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D

Terribly, terribly tempted. I used to say it in my head. It made me feel much better. It never did pass my lips.

Actually as I child, I probably would have said it.  Only I wouldn't have stopped there. 

Being the ever helpful little girl that I was, or at least tried to be, I'd have probably followed it up with "Can I help you?"   ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jones on November 24, 2012, 02:06:00 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D

Terribly, terribly tempted. I used to say it in my head. It made me feel much better. It never did pass my lips.

Actually as I child, I probably would have said it.  Only I wouldn't have stopped there. 

Being the ever helpful little girl that I was, or at least tried to be, I'd have probably followed it up with "Can I help you?"   ;D

I didn't do this, but during one of my own Gramma's talks about being ready for death my sister asked Gramma if she could have Gramma's giant stuffed toy giraffe when she died.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: lkdrymom on November 24, 2012, 03:12:57 PM
My granmothers' famous line was "This is my last Christmas".  After a few of those I finally said "You've been promising that for 15 years".  The first time she ever said that my uncle ran out and bought her a very expensive gift...so she figured this was a way to get alot of loot from the relatives.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Iris on November 24, 2012, 03:44:09 PM
We've used this technique on MIL the last few years, although she's not as extreme as your examples (thank Goodness). A few examples;

My MIL used to sigh and say how she couldn't do such-and-such because she's 'old' (Note: she was in her early 50s at the time). She stopped straight away when DH turned around one day and said "Yes, that's true, you are".

She tried to guilt us into driving to THEIR house Christmas day because they just didn't feel able to drive because "the roads are so dangerous on Christmas day". "You're right!" we said. "We'd all better stay home and not risk it then". The next Christmas she decided that the roads aren't that dangerous after all...

She used to get her own way by saying "I thought we'd do [not what suited us at all] because I was thinking about you and thought it would be better for you, since [insert mad logic here]". We used to feel too guilty to correct her because she was thinking of us, right? We didn't want to let her down when she'd been *so thoughtful*. Took us a few years to cotton onto that little trick, and then we started saying "Oh, you're so sweet to think of us. What we really need is ...". She doesn't use that trick anymore...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on November 24, 2012, 04:06:21 PM
We've used this technique on MIL the last few years, although she's not as extreme as your examples (thank Goodness). A few examples;

My MIL used to sigh and say how she couldn't do such-and-such because she's 'old' (Note: she was in her early 50s at the time). She stopped straight away when DH turned around one day and said "Yes, that's true, you are".

She tried to guilt us into driving to THEIR house Christmas day because they just didn't feel able to drive because "the roads are so dangerous on Christmas day". "You're right!" we said. "We'd all better stay home and not risk it then". The next Christmas she decided that the roads aren't that dangerous after all...

She used to get her own way by saying "I thought we'd do [not what suited us at all] because I was thinking about you and thought it would be better for you, since [insert mad logic here]". We used to feel too guilty to correct her because she was thinking of us, right? We didn't want to let her down when she'd been *so thoughtful*. Took us a few years to cotton onto that little trick, and then we started saying "Oh, you're so sweet to think of us. What we really need is ...". She doesn't use that trick anymore...

Ack!  For years, my mom's relatives told her that it was "too far" to drive to her home and visit her, insisting that she should come visit them instead.  (you know, because the roads to drive to their houses were much shorter.) Mom did it for a really long time, until she finally said, 'You're right, it is too far to drive for me as well. That's too bad.  Some other time."

It didn't make those relatives want to visit her more, but it kept mom from making all of those long trips to see people who didn't care enough to travel to her.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Iris on November 24, 2012, 04:15:35 PM
We've used this technique on MIL the last few years, although she's not as extreme as your examples (thank Goodness). A few examples;

My MIL used to sigh and say how she couldn't do such-and-such because she's 'old' (Note: she was in her early 50s at the time). She stopped straight away when DH turned around one day and said "Yes, that's true, you are".

She tried to guilt us into driving to THEIR house Christmas day because they just didn't feel able to drive because "the roads are so dangerous on Christmas day". "You're right!" we said. "We'd all better stay home and not risk it then". The next Christmas she decided that the roads aren't that dangerous after all...

She used to get her own way by saying "I thought we'd do [not what suited us at all] because I was thinking about you and thought it would be better for you, since [insert mad logic here]". We used to feel too guilty to correct her because she was thinking of us, right? We didn't want to let her down when she'd been *so thoughtful*. Took us a few years to cotton onto that little trick, and then we started saying "Oh, you're so sweet to think of us. What we really need is ...". She doesn't use that trick anymore...

Ack!  For years, my mom's relatives told her that it was "too far" to drive to her home and visit her, insisting that she should come visit them instead.  (you know, because the roads to drive to their houses were much shorter.) Mom did it for a really long time, until she finally said, 'You're right, it is too far to drive for me as well. That's too bad.  Some other time."

It didn't make those relatives want to visit her more, but it kept mom from making all of those long trips to see people who didn't care enough to travel to her.

What got me was that they wanted us to drive to them on those "too dangerous" roads with their grandchild  ::). I begged DH to let EvilIris do a risk analysis for them "Well, in your car you statistically have 47 years of combined life-years remaining, whereas our car contains 185 combined years of life expectancy, so risk-wise it would be better if you guys braved the dangerous roads."   ;D Of course we couldn't say that but we had a LOT of fun coming up with it and refining it...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jules1980 on November 24, 2012, 07:20:03 PM
My great grandmother was great at the guilt trip thing.  Always with her health.  Every doctor's visit was a dire thing.  Time for her yearly mammogram? She'd call all her granddaughters and tell them she probably had breast cancer.  Time for her yearly physical? She lost ten pounds without trying that year, so she must have diabetes.  Etc, etc.  Then they would fall all over themselves trying to cheer her up and get her to take better care of herself and the whole thing would start over again the next year.  I watched her play this game with them my whole life.  Then when she finally had a legimate health problem, they gave her so much 'help' and attention that they actually hendered her healing process.

Once, she was in the hospital for routine test dealing with her illness and it was meal time.  My mom told me to get her to eat as 'she hadn't eaten a bite all day'.  So okay, I opened her tray and set everything up, then when I took it over to her she told me, "Oh, honey, thank you but I'm so nauseous I couldn't eat a bite if I wanted to."

I shrugged, said okay and put the tray on the bedside table and sat down on the foot of the bed.  Cue all her granddaughters (my mom and aunts) looking at me as if I had horns and jumping up to try to coax her to eat a bit.  I said she would be fine to skip a meal or even a day of meals since she had an IV going and if all else failed the nurses would give her a supplement drink before she went NPO or something.  Finally mom and aunts sat down.  After a few minutes of no one paying attention to the fact taht she was not eating she asked, "Say, Jules, what did they bring me for supper?"

I told her what it was adding that desert at that hospital was very good, then went back to watching the tv.  A few more minutes and she asked me to bring her tray back over and she'd try a 'few bites'.  By now, my mom and aunts were watching this with amusement.  Great grandmother ate the whole meal and sent me down to the cafeteria for another sweet.  After that, any complains of illness was met with the same attitude and we never had problems getting her to eat or take her meds or whatever.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on November 25, 2012, 10:29:35 AM
There are a few people in my family who will use the "I'm never speaking to you again" phrase to end an argument.  With them, every disagreement is WWIII.  Finally being tired of this, when one of them made that statement, I merely said, "okay by me."  Haven't heard much of them since.  :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: AylaM on November 25, 2012, 10:45:35 AM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D

Terribly, terribly tempted. I used to say it in my head. It made me feel much better. It never did pass my lips.

Actually as I child, I probably would have said it.  Only I wouldn't have stopped there. 

Being the ever helpful little girl that I was, or at least tried to be, I'd have probably followed it up with "Can I help you?"   ;D

I didn't do this, but during one of my own Gramma's talks about being ready for death my sister asked Gramma if she could have Gramma's giant stuffed toy giraffe when she died.

Is it rude to want to try that? 

My grandma is obsessed with death and the apocalypse.    It is usually something like "I hope the lord comes tomorrow" combined with "if you don't start going to church you're going to be left behind!"

Upside is it isn't just me.  My Christian family members get it too.  I hope I never have to tell grandma that I've been studying Judaism with the intent of converting.  She threw a fit when my cousin converted to Catholicism.  And that is still a branch of Christianity.  Well some people believe it isn't.  But it is closer than Judaism anyways.

I'm thinking laying claim to her stuff might, at the very least, amuse me enough to make it less annoying.  "Ok grandma, can have your insert_item_here when I get left behind?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: PeterM on November 25, 2012, 11:32:14 AM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D

For extra points you can ask if she has a preferred method of exit from this life of tears and woe.

"Should I smother you with a pillow, or do you have a blunt object nearby, or what? C'mon, you gotta meet me halfway, here. I'm doin' you a favor, but I don't got all day."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Auntie Mame on November 25, 2012, 11:32:45 AM
My mom loves nothing more than to nail herself to a cross.  One of her favorite poor me loops is o go on and on about how much I hate her, what a bad mother she is, how "terrible" my childhood was (it wasn't, childhood was fun).  I used to fall for it and give her the attention and argument she wanted (which was 15 minutes of me convincing her it wasn't true).  Now i just agree with her, no matter what she says.  Everything is met with a cheerful "okay Mom"

"I know you hate me"  "Okay Mom"
"I'm such a horrible mother"  "Okay Mom"

Shuts her right down.   >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Bijou on November 25, 2012, 11:57:37 AM
I like the responses people are giving to the PA statements.  It really does take the wind out of their sails. 

I don't think this is PA, but I thought it was funny.
Someone:  "I have dibs on your oak bed when you die!"
Me:  "Sorry.  It's already been claimed by someone else."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Lady Snowdon on November 25, 2012, 12:05:56 PM
My mom loves nothing more than to nail herself to a cross.  One of her favorite poor me loops is o go on and on about how much I hate her, what a bad mother she is, how "terrible" my childhood was (it wasn't, childhood was fun).  I used to fall for it and give her the attention and argument she wanted (which was 15 minutes of me convincing her it wasn't true).  Now i just agree with her, no matter what she says.  Everything is met with a cheerful "okay Mom"

"I know you hate me"  "Okay Mom"
"I'm such a horrible mother"  "Okay Mom"

Shuts her right down.   >:D

My mom tried something like this once.  I was on the phone with her, and she just started castigating herself for what a horrible parent she was, she never spent enough time with me, she was sure she'd done a thousand terrible things that I hated her for, etc.  I snorted and said, "Yes Mom, I've needed years of therapy to deal with the fact that I was yelled at once when I was two".  She said, "Oh", and shut up.  It was great!  Every time that she's tried the "I was a horrible mother" act since, I've just agreed with her that yes, I'm sure it was terrible, I'm horribly scarred for life, etc.  She usually stops after just a couple minutes.  It's strange that she's usually not PA about anything else, just this one area. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Bijou on November 25, 2012, 12:09:07 PM
When my sisters and I acted up as kids, my mother would threaten to go sleep on the roof..."I'm going to go sleep on the roof!"  We would all whine and beg her not to sleep on the roof...'wahhh...mama, no, mama!", hanging onto her shirt tail.  Then one day I said, "Go ahead".

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sara Crewe on November 25, 2012, 12:23:48 PM
I work with someone who is seriously PA - she volunteers for various tasks and then sulks for days and complains behind your back about having to do the job.

I've started doing the same as PPs - saying 'oh, OK, then' when she volunteers and leaving her to get on with it.  She is going to be difficult anyway, so I might as well save myself some hassle.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: doodlemor on November 25, 2012, 01:09:54 PM
When my sisters and I acted up as kids, my mother would threaten to go sleep on the roof..."I'm going to go sleep on the roof!"  We would all whine and beg her not to sleep on the roof...'wahhh...mama, no, mama!", hanging onto her shirt tail.  Then one day I said, "Go ahead".

When I was a preschooler my mother had to drag both my brother and I shopping.  When we would get antsy she would tell us that if we didn't settle down she would "scream, and everybody would look to see what children made the woman scream."

At some point my child self realized that everyone would think that she was utterly crazy if she screamed, and not pay any attention to us.  The next time we were out and she made her dubious threat I said, "OK, go ahead and scream, Lady."

My mother was very, very angry at me for that statement.  I don't remember exactly what happened to me, but I don't think that I was quite so sassy again until I was a teenager.  As for my mother, she never made the silly screaming threat again.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Emmy on November 25, 2012, 03:01:56 PM
My mom loves nothing more than to nail herself to a cross.  One of her favorite poor me loops is o go on and on about how much I hate her, what a bad mother she is, how "terrible" my childhood was (it wasn't, childhood was fun).  I used to fall for it and give her the attention and argument she wanted (which was 15 minutes of me convincing her it wasn't true).  Now i just agree with her, no matter what she says.  Everything is met with a cheerful "okay Mom"

"I know you hate me"  "Okay Mom"
"I'm such a horrible mother"  "Okay Mom"

Shuts her right down.   >:D

My mom tried something like this once.  I was on the phone with her, and she just started castigating herself for what a horrible parent she was, she never spent enough time with me, she was sure she'd done a thousand terrible things that I hated her for, etc.  I snorted and said, "Yes Mom, I've needed years of therapy to deal with the fact that I was yelled at once when I was two".  She said, "Oh", and shut up.  It was great!  Every time that she's tried the "I was a horrible mother" act since, I've just agreed with her that yes, I'm sure it was terrible, I'm horribly scarred for life, etc.  She usually stops after just a couple minutes.  It's strange that she's usually not PA about anything else, just this one area.

Evil Emmy would let her know she could make it up to me by buying me a new car/Hawaiian vacation/paying to remodel the home.  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Kimblee on November 25, 2012, 03:31:47 PM
My mom loves nothing more than to nail herself to a cross.  One of her favorite poor me loops is o go on and on about how much I hate her, what a bad mother she is, how "terrible" my childhood was (it wasn't, childhood was fun).  I used to fall for it and give her the attention and argument she wanted (which was 15 minutes of me convincing her it wasn't true).  Now i just agree with her, no matter what she says.  Everything is met with a cheerful "okay Mom"

"I know you hate me"  "Okay Mom"
"I'm such a horrible mother"  "Okay Mom"

Shuts her right down.   >:D

My mom tried something like this once.  I was on the phone with her, and she just started castigating herself for what a horrible parent she was, she never spent enough time with me, she was sure she'd done a thousand terrible things that I hated her for, etc.  I snorted and said, "Yes Mom, I've needed years of therapy to deal with the fact that I was yelled at once when I was two".  She said, "Oh", and shut up.  It was great!  Every time that she's tried the "I was a horrible mother" act since, I've just agreed with her that yes, I'm sure it was terrible, I'm horribly scarred for life, etc.  She usually stops after just a couple minutes.  It's strange that she's usually not PA about anything else, just this one area.

My dad does that too. (He CAN be pretty PA actually. But he's also seriously messed up in the head from horrific child abuse, so I give him a lot of slack.) In his case I thinkk its guilt over a few things that happened when I was very young (Nothing that was ACTUALLY his fault. It was completely someone else's fault. I'd give more detail but it was kinda awful. But again, not Dad's fault, he just blames himself.)

I usually give him the attention he's seeking actually. Yeah its annoying but in this case (and only this case, all of his other PA stuff gets the "uh-huh, ok" treatment) I figure it doesn't hurt me to reward him and it seems to comfort him a little.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on November 25, 2012, 03:52:37 PM
My mother was always pretty PA, but since she and my dad separated three years ago, she has gone pro. Her favorite thing is to insert herself into an awkward situation (ie calling to invite us to do stuff when she knows we're doing something with my dad--and she gets a lot more visit time than he does--and then sadly saying, "No, it's okay" in a really obvious "it's not okay but I want to be a martyr" voice. I've just started saying, "Oh, good! Okay, talk to you later!" since I know she'll never confront me about it and instead will wait an extra day before she calls me (acting like nothing happened.) Her PA-ness is really working against her; I wish she could realize it.  :-\
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Spring Water on Sundays on November 27, 2012, 10:52:51 AM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D

Terribly, terribly tempted. I used to say it in my head. It made me feel much better. It never did pass my lips.

Actually as I child, I probably would have said it.  Only I wouldn't have stopped there. 

Being the ever helpful little girl that I was, or at least tried to be, I'd have probably followed it up with "Can I help you?"   ;D

I didn't do this, but during one of my own Gramma's talks about being ready for death my sister asked Gramma if she could have Gramma's giant stuffed toy giraffe when she died.

Is it rude to want to try that? 

My grandma is obsessed with death and the apocalypse.    It is usually something like "I hope the lord comes tomorrow" combined with "if you don't start going to church you're going to be left behind!"

Upside is it isn't just me.  My Christian family members get it too.  I hope I never have to tell grandma that I've been studying Judaism with the intent of converting.  She threw a fit when my cousin converted to Catholicism.  And that is still a branch of Christianity.  Well some people believe it isn't.  But it is closer than Judaism anyways.

I'm thinking laying claim to her stuff might, at the very least, amuse me enough to make it less annoying.  "Ok grandma, can have your insert_item_here when I get left behind?"

LOL!

My mom likes to do the whole "When I die, you can have such-and-such item." She's been doing this since I was in high school 15 years ago and it really started to annoy me by the time I was in my early 20's. So I started replying, "Oh, boy, I can't wait!"

Fortunately my mom has a great sense of humor and can laugh at herself. She has drastically cut back on talking about how her possessions should be disributed upon her death (she's 61 and healthy AND she has a will as well as a detailed written list, so this kind of talk is really unnecessary).
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Valentines Mommy on November 27, 2012, 11:23:08 AM
Your mom does that too? I thought it was just mine.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: LazyDaisy on November 27, 2012, 11:39:10 AM
Oh goodness, my grandmother did that for 30 years before her death. She took great delight in proclaiming that all of the women of the family (her 3 daughters and 3 granddaughters) would be fighting tooth and nail to claim her jewelry and clothes. Sadly, the absolute opposite was true -- we really didn't want any of it after her death. The jewelry was largely gaudy costume jewelry and she had flamboyant clothes that wouldn't fit any of us even if it were our style. I did love her but she was a pathological narcissist throughout her life. We all learned quickly to just smile and nod at her when she said she was bequeathing one of us something (or not) and go about our lives.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: veryfluffy on November 27, 2012, 12:25:01 PM
My sister's best friend Sandy when she was a teenager was a real PA queen. Sandy was confident and I guess more "popular" and my sister wanted to be part of her crowd, so my sister was always having to backtrack on things and go along with whatever she wanted. Sandy would "break up" with my sister every now and then, or leave her out of things, and was generally very manipulative.

I think Sandy could tell that she wasn't my favourite person, and one day asked me "Why don't you like me?" Of course, I was supposed to say, "Don't be silly, of course I like you!"

I didn't. I looked her straight in the eye and said, "How much time have you got?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: spookycatlady on November 27, 2012, 02:01:03 PM
When I put the deposit down on the hall for my wedding, I let all my significant family members know the date (it was a good 14-15 months away from the wedding, so way too early for save-the-date cards).  Mom called me later and said, "When were you *thinking* of getting married again?" 

I knew that she knew the date.  I also knew right away that she was setting me up to change to suit hers and my Dad's needs over mine and my then future husband's.  So, brightly and cheerfully I said, "We *are* getting married on October 16th.  Non-refundable deposits have been paid."

"Well, that date doesn't work for us.  Your father will have to take vacation time."

Now, in my family, Dad came first, then Mom, then Brother, then me.  The family script said that I was now supposed to realize how inconvenient my date was and change our plans.  "I guess Dad will have to take vacation then."

I posted about this as it happened ages ago.  She later told me that Dad might not get the leave (he never had a hard time getting the exact vacation time that he wanted).  With that I was supposed buckle under the threat of my Dad not being at my wedding.  I said, "I'm going to play the only daughter card here."  Also I said some other things that were literally not e-hell approved (I got chastised in the thread).

Mom also said, "You know that we had other things we wanted to do with that vacation time." 

I treated it like it was a real conversation-- I was never *asked* to change the dates, just informed of how much they were going to suffer by my choices.  I was supposed to be shamed and realize where I was in the pecking order.  I just kept on saying, "Well, that's a choice you will have to make. I hope to see you there."

They came to the wedding. They left early from the reception, but they came.

It felt really really good in the end to put my new family (myself, husband, and furbabies) ahead of the family of origin.  It stunk at the time, though.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: goldilocks on November 27, 2012, 03:31:58 PM
My granddad used the line (or some variant) of "Well, this might be my last Christmas/birthday/day on earth, ", etc for 20 years.  My mother said something to my dad about it one time and he said that HIS grandfather had done the same thing. 

I did notice that when granddaddy was in failing healther and it REALLY might have been his last whatever, he quit saying it.

So, my mother.  She pays quite a bit each month in medicine, and also wastes a lot of money each month.  whenever one of us tries to discuss money and budgeting with her, we get

"FINE! I'll just quit buying all that medicine"

Any attempts to explain it's not the medicine we are talking about but the other non-essential items got us nowhere.  I finally just said "Well, you are an adult and if you think that's what you need to do, okay".


NOTE:  One example of her money mgmt issues.  She likes to get all the women's magazines each month (about 4 of them).   One year for Chrismtas I bought her subscriptions, thinking that would help her save money.  No.  the magazines came out in the store before hers arrived by mail, and she couldn't wait so she bought them anyway.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: yokozbornak on November 27, 2012, 03:44:49 PM
Spookycatlady's wedding story reminded me of my own.  My dad threw a fit when my sister got married about walking her down the aisle and even showing up because "he hated that kind of thing" and didn't want to dress up.  Sheand my mom literally cried and begged him to until he relented and showed up. When I got married about ten years later, I was expecting the same reaction.  I had been down that road with him before about my high school graduation (that's a whole other story) so I was prepared.  When he said he didn't think he would be able to come and didn't want to walk me down the aisle, I just smiled and said, "Okay, I have already talked to Friend and he is more than willing to do the job."  He started sputteringand acting offended and saying, "You know I'm kidding!"  I let him know that his games and manipulations wouldn't work on me anymore.  I will say that he never pulled those stunts with me anymore after that because I just called him on it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jules1980 on November 27, 2012, 04:19:50 PM

LOL!

My mom likes to do the whole "When I die, you can have such-and-such item." She's been doing this since I was in high school 15 years ago and it really started to annoy me by the time I was in my early 20's. So I started replying, "Oh, boy, I can't wait!"

Fortunately my mom has a great sense of humor and can laugh at herself. She has drastically cut back on talking about how her possessions should be disributed upon her death (she's 61 and healthy AND she has a will as well as a detailed written list, so this kind of talk is really unnecessary).

My great-grandmother used to do this too.  She stopped after my brother asked if he could have the item right then so she could see him enjoying it before she died.  (He never intended to take said item, he just wanted to show her how silly that statement was.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Slartibartfast on November 27, 2012, 04:48:17 PM
DH's grandmother has been pulling the "my last Christmas" thing ever since I've known her (a little over ten years now).  She's in her mid-nineties, doing well health-wise, lives alone unassisted, and has more energy than many people thirty years younger than she is.  Her memory is starting to go, a bit, but she's still in excellent shape.  Every Thanksgiving (and every Christmas, if she gets her way) we all have to go up to her house for the holiday.  All of us except MIL, of course (Grandma's daughter-in-law), who is kind of not invited and kind of takes the initiative to sign up to work every holiday for this very reason.  (FIL has put his mother first the whole marriage, so I guess I'm not surprised he doesn't see anything wrong with celebrating every holiday with his mother instead of his wife.)

Last year the whole "last Christmas" thing came to a head.  (I posted about it here somewhere.)  I had planned to have a quiet Christmas here at home with Babybartfast, but DH misinterpreted my "plans to do nothing" as "no plans."  The end result was that FIL, DH, and Babybartfast went up to Grandma's house for Christmas, I flew by myself to visit my parents, and I cried a lot.  However, DH (belatedly) understood how much this meant to me and made a point of thanking Grandma for hosting this, her last Christmas.

This year Grandma wants us to come up for Christmas again.  We already were up there for Thanksgiving (although we left on Friday and had a "second Thanksgiving" with my sister and my family).  DH kindly reminded Grandma that she had said last year was her "last Christmas" so we made other plans this year.  I'm not sure what she had to say to that, but this year we'll be home.  FIL is driving the eight hours round-trip to pick her up and bring her back to our town, and we'll do part of Christmas day at the ILs house with Grandma and DH's sisters and their families, but the actual Christmas Eve and Christmas morning is ours.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: heartmug on November 27, 2012, 04:55:53 PM
lol - reading all of these.  My MIL began doing that when my FIL had a heart attack about 15 years ago.  It was his last Christmas.  Then his last Easter.  Then Father's Day, his birthday, Thanksgiving, etc.....  Finally my DH had had enough.  He informed his mom that it could "anyone of our's last holiday or birthday each and every time we meet."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: nuit93 on November 27, 2012, 06:12:24 PM
As someone with a rather PA mother (she got better...sorta), I'm loving these responses!

I still won't acknowledge her comments about how it'd be nice to have another wedding anytime soon though  :-\
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Auntie Mame on November 27, 2012, 06:20:45 PM
As someone with a rather PA mother (she got better...sorta), I'm loving these responses!

I still won't acknowledge her comments about how it'd be nice to have another wedding anytime soon though  :-\

Tell her you adopted two poodles and they are getting married.  They would have to be poodles, poodles look great in veils and bow ties.  And I like saying the word poodle.  Poodle.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: jedikaiti on November 27, 2012, 06:22:23 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D

Terribly, terribly tempted. I used to say it in my head. It made me feel much better. It never did pass my lips.

Actually as I child, I probably would have said it.  Only I wouldn't have stopped there. 

Being the ever helpful little girl that I was, or at least tried to be, I'd have probably followed it up with "Can I help you?"   ;D

I didn't do this, but during one of my own Gramma's talks about being ready for death my sister asked Gramma if she could have Gramma's giant stuffed toy giraffe when she died.

Is it rude to want to try that? 

My grandma is obsessed with death and the apocalypse.    It is usually something like "I hope the lord comes tomorrow" combined with "if you don't start going to church you're going to be left behind!"

Upside is it isn't just me.  My Christian family members get it too.  I hope I never have to tell grandma that I've been studying Judaism with the intent of converting.  She threw a fit when my cousin converted to Catholicism.  And that is still a branch of Christianity.  Well some people believe it isn't.  But it is closer than Judaism anyways.

I'm thinking laying claim to her stuff might, at the very least, amuse me enough to make it less annoying.  "Ok grandma, can have your insert_item_here when I get left behind?"

LOL!

My mom likes to do the whole "When I die, you can have such-and-such item." She's been doing this since I was in high school 15 years ago and it really started to annoy me by the time I was in my early 20's. So I started replying, "Oh, boy, I can't wait!"

Fortunately my mom has a great sense of humor and can laugh at herself. She has drastically cut back on talking about how her possessions should be disributed upon her death (she's 61 and healthy AND she has a will as well as a detailed written list, so this kind of talk is really unnecessary).

A bit OT, as my Dad was very much NOT being PA, but still amusing...

When I was a kid, my parents had their own company, and one day (I would have been in mid-low single digit ages), Dad proudly gave me the "one day, all this will be yours" speech. I wanted it Right. Then. MY office! :-)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Queen of Clubs on November 28, 2012, 06:01:58 AM
All of us except MIL, of course (Grandma's daughter-in-law), who is kind of not invited and kind of takes the initiative to sign up to work every holiday for this very reason.  (FIL has put his mother first the whole marriage, so I guess I'm not surprised he doesn't see anything wrong with celebrating every holiday with his mother instead of his wife.)

Your poor MIL.  Wouldn't it be possible to invite *her* to celebrate the holidays with you so at least she's celebrating some holidays with some of her family?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on November 28, 2012, 07:34:06 AM
My mom has been doing a variant of "last Christmas", but with nice things. She and my dad have been separated for ~3 years now, but still have some sort of joint account. He makes quite a bit more money than she does--although we estimate she'll be getting a fair amount of alimony once they do divorce, and she makes a fair salary on her own anyhow. But she acts as though she'll be impoverished when the divorce does happen.

Every time we go out to eat somewhere nice, she loudly sighs and says, "Enjoy it, everyone, this is the last time we'll eat like this.".  ::) Like she expects us to suddenly turn on my dad because we've been denied prime rib.  ???

DH and I have started paying to stop it. Which is fine, we're adults now and should pay sometimes. And it's worth it to stop the "Woe is me, I'll never eat steak again" diatribe.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on November 28, 2012, 07:37:54 AM
All of us except MIL, of course (Grandma's daughter-in-law), who is kind of not invited and kind of takes the initiative to sign up to work every holiday for this very reason.  (FIL has put his mother first the whole marriage, so I guess I'm not surprised he doesn't see anything wrong with celebrating every holiday with his mother instead of his wife.)

Your poor MIL.  Wouldn't it be possible to invite *her* to celebrate the holidays with you so at least she's celebrating some holidays with some of her family?

I have heard of people like your FIL who put their FOO ahead of their marriage and children.  They're always surprised that, after the parents pass away and the siblings disperse, the spouse and children are no longer interested in spending time with them.

Once again, I ask, why do some married people forget the "forsaking all others' part of the vows?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: FoxPaws on November 28, 2012, 07:45:12 AM
Every time we go out to eat somewhere nice, she loudly sighs and says, "Enjoy it, everyone, this is the last time we'll eat like this.".  ::) Like she expects us to suddenly turn on my dad because we've been denied prime rib.  ???
Well then...let's order the lobster and a bottle of their finest champagne!

OR

Oh, are you starting a new diet?

 >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: EmmaJ. on November 28, 2012, 07:46:15 AM
I'm sorry, what is FOO?  Google is no help (unless of course, you do mean Flight Operations Office  :)).
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: FoxPaws on November 28, 2012, 07:47:30 AM
FOO = Family of Origin
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on November 28, 2012, 07:47:52 AM
Every time we go out to eat somewhere nice, she loudly sighs and says, "Enjoy it, everyone, this is the last time we'll eat like this.".  ::) Like she expects us to suddenly turn on my dad because we've been denied prime rib.  ???
Well then...let's order the lobster and a bottle of their finest champagne!

OR

Oh, are you starting a new diet?

 >:D

Haha, I know, right? One of these times I'm going to slip and say, "So, is this our last good meal then? Shall I order the surf and turf?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: girlysprite on November 28, 2012, 07:50:42 AM
My DH sometimes starts to mutter loudly over something that annoys him when I'm around, like dishes on the countertop, or that the oven isn't clean enough...I think he wants me to jump in there, but I never open my mouth or do anything. If he wants to discuss the issue or wants me to help, he can just ask. It works for me :)

Also, luckily not all (grand)parents who say things like 'when I die I want you to have this' are PA. My grandmother really wants to make sure that all her prized posessions go the people who can appreciate them the most. She has already passed on a lot of items already for this reason, so I know that when she says 'I want you to have that after I die' she is serious about it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: siamesecat2965 on November 28, 2012, 08:35:11 AM
My mom used to pull PA stunts whenever the holidays came, or any other time we were having company. She'd ask me to help get ready,which I was fine with. So she'd say please dust and vacuum the living and dining rooms. Ok fine, I'd do it, then say what next? She'd then hem and haw and say, let me think a minute, or let me finish this.  10, 15 or more minutes would go by, and I'd get tired of waiting, start reading or turn on the tv. She'd then come by, see me, and make PA comments like "Must be nice to have time to sit and read/watch tv" and the fight would commence :)

I finally broke her of this habit by telling her while I had no issues helping her get ready, she needed to give me a list, of everything she wanted me to do, so I could do one, then move onto the next, etc. I also told her no list, no help, I'll go sit in my room and let you do all the work.

And that solved the problem. I could do what was needed, without waiting for her to tell me what she needed done next, and it got done, and everyone was happy.

I do this now; when I come to visit, there are always things she needs/wants me to do.  As she's in a wheelchair, sometimes its something as simple as getting things down from the shelf in her closet, changing a light bulb, etc. I ususally spend a week at Christmas and have started asking for a list, and letting her know I plan on doing "a whole lot of nothing" I also tell her let me know the priority of what needs to be done.  As as I get there, or sometime before I leave. It seems to work out well.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Redneck Gravy on November 28, 2012, 09:24:42 AM
My dad used the dying soon every year, usually between Thanksgiving and Christmas, woe is him.  Every year it was enjoy me this year I don't think I will be here for next year.  One year I said, "can I have your pickup if you go?"  Well that stopped.

My exMIL is and always has been p/a - there are numerous threads posted through the years about her.  Her mother was dying for 20 years also, every summer and holiday might be grandma's last, she died at 101 (not joking).  MIL started with that same ploy a few years later.  I sat my daughters down and said we are not going to be held hostage by this like your dad and I were. 

She asked me to bring her grandkids to see her and I tried but then she had every reason under the sun why I couldn't do it.  So I flew her here two years ago and that was the last time I am doing that!

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=84654.0
 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Flora Louise on November 28, 2012, 09:43:21 AM
This thread makes me think of the Seinfeld episode in which George explains some selfish thing he's done to Jerry and then asks, "Does that make me a bad person?" clearly expecting to be told "of course not." Jerry replies, "Well, yeah."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: kymom3 on November 28, 2012, 09:45:20 AM
My mom used to give out the digs and there are still certain situations where I will freeze because I can hear my mother's voice in my head making fun of the way I do something.

For example--and this is the one time I stood up to her and it actually worked!  My siblings and I were at mom and dad's house, brother and his wife, me and my children and sister.  We were all adults.  We were fixing lunch and mom had some chicken to make sandwiches with, when I made my sandwich there were only a few stringy bits of chicken left. I knew that no matter what I did with them it would be wrong--if I wrapped them up to put in the frig or left them out, and sure enough mom made some comment implying I was too dumb to put the chicken up/or why did I put the chicken up with a couple of small pieces in the bag--I don't remember exactly which one I did.

I very quietly said to her, "Don't you ever speak to me that way again."  I didn't make a big fuss, I didn't try to shame her and yell in front of our family, but I think my quiet words had a bigger impact because she never did that again.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sophia on November 28, 2012, 09:52:18 AM
It was a bit of a struggle for me to move out of my parent's house.  I went to University in the same town, so there was no burning need for me to leave.  But, when I naturally started socializing more Mom and Dad tried to clamp down more than when I was 16.  So, I moved out a few times and was dragged/tempted back.  Before the last time I moved out, Dad decided that I really didn't want to move out (I did) and was just manipulating them.  So, I heard him tell mom that the next time I announced I was moving out, they would offer to help.  When it came to pass, I said "I am so glad you feel that way!  I get the apartment on X day.  Any help will be appreciated."  Dad deflated and mom looked murderous (at Dad).  But, I moved out and stayed out. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: AfleetAlex on November 28, 2012, 10:45:29 AM
My mother is convinced that everyone should either be able to read her mind or get the subtleties of what she's hinting at (she's PA but I think she thinks she's being polite by not being direct). The other day I had to have a conversation with her telling her not to complain to me about something my dad had done when she had never told him how she felt directly.

Not that my dad is blameless but honestly, Ma, I failed my ESP test, you're going to have to tell me what you want.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Kimblee on November 28, 2012, 11:00:32 AM
This thread makes me think of the Seinfeld episode in which George explains some selfish thing he's done to Jerry and then asks, "Does that make me a bad person?" clearly expecting to be told "of course not." Jerry replies, "Well, yeah."

Okay, I'm gonna tell on myself here.

I did/do that. I explain my point of veiw in a sittuation then say (a variation of) "I'm an awful person." Except I truly believe it. After enduring years of this (bless her) my best friend one day stared at me and said "Oh... You really believe that don't you? I always thought you just wanted a little praise!" Then she sat me down and parroted back a few of the sittuations (putting herself in my place) and asked me if she was wrong (not awful, just wrong) Well, if it was HER it was okay.

Good therapy and better pills have done wonders for me, but sometimes I fall into old habits. And (bless her twice) my friend still puts up with it, although she wrote on a index card "You're sweet and nice and caring. You're just bat-poo crazy. Super Bat-poo." and put it in my wallet so she can tell me "Kim, go look in your wallet, I'm too tired to answer this one."

In my defense, I learned the arts of PA (and that I'm a terrible person) from my psychotic grandmother. I'm not entirely sure why, when I know everything that left her lips were lies, I still believe her.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: GratefulMaria on November 28, 2012, 11:15:46 AM
This thread makes me think of the Seinfeld episode in which George explains some selfish thing he's done to Jerry and then asks, "Does that make me a bad person?" clearly expecting to be told "of course not." Jerry replies, "Well, yeah."

Okay, I'm gonna tell on myself here.

I did/do that. I explain my point of veiw in a sittuation then say (a variation of) "I'm an awful person." Except I truly believe it. After enduring years of this (bless her) my best friend one day stared at me and said "Oh... You really believe that don't you? I always thought you just wanted a little praise!" Then she sat me down and parroted back a few of the sittuations (putting herself in my place) and asked me if she was wrong (not awful, just wrong) Well, if it was HER it was okay.

Good therapy and better pills have done wonders for me, but sometimes I fall into old habits. And (bless her twice) my friend still puts up with it, although she wrote on a index card "You're sweet and nice and caring. You're just bat-poo crazy. Super Bat-poo." and put it in my wallet so she can tell me "Kim, go look in your wallet, I'm too tired to answer this one."

In my defense, I learned the arts of PA (and that I'm a terrible person) from my psychotic grandmother. I'm not entirely sure why, when I know everything that left her lips were lies, I still believe her.

*sniff* I just love your best friend!!!

My mother's really good at the hit-and-run martyr allusion.  As a family owned by a dog, we have take-alongs in our car all the time:  a leash, snacks, water bowl, etc.  Well, the leash was on the floor of the front passenger seat when I was taking my mother somewhere one day, and she glances down at it and asks me, "Oh, that's for me, isn't it?"  (As in, I treat her like a dog.  Which, if you knew anything about my dog's life, you'd want!)  It used to set my teeth on edge, then I learned to let go of changing her opinion and started replying with a cheerful, "Yep!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: violinp on November 28, 2012, 11:19:54 AM
My grandpa will sometimes be really PA - he thinks he's being sly, but he's really not. Once, he was yammering on about how his 70th birthday celebration was soooo wonderful (it was - all 11 of us rented a house for a week and had a very nice vacation), and, why, his 75th birthday is coming up, isn't it? And didn't we all enjoy that vacation 5 years ago so much?

Mom, Dad, and I just smiled and said that, yes, we had enjoyed it. Inside, I was thinking, though: "Dude, that was a one - time thing. We spent a boatload of money on that trip, and you want all 3 kids, with their spouses and kids of their own, to do that all over again five years later?" Not to mention that his daughter - Cabbage's and my mom - wouldn't be able to go, due to church stuff going on around that time. So, yeah. That would be a really nice gift for him, but not so much for everyone else.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Kimblee on November 28, 2012, 12:08:49 PM
This thread makes me think of the Seinfeld episode in which George explains some selfish thing he's done to Jerry and then asks, "Does that make me a bad person?" clearly expecting to be told "of course not." Jerry replies, "Well, yeah."

Okay, I'm gonna tell on myself here.

I did/do that. I explain my point of veiw in a sittuation then say (a variation of) "I'm an awful person." Except I truly believe it. After enduring years of this (bless her) my best friend one day stared at me and said "Oh... You really believe that don't you? I always thought you just wanted a little praise!" Then she sat me down and parroted back a few of the sittuations (putting herself in my place) and asked me if she was wrong (not awful, just wrong) Well, if it was HER it was okay.

Good therapy and better pills have done wonders for me, but sometimes I fall into old habits. And (bless her twice) my friend still puts up with it, although she wrote on a index card "You're sweet and nice and caring. You're just bat-poo crazy. Super Bat-poo." and put it in my wallet so she can tell me "Kim, go look in your wallet, I'm too tired to answer this one."

In my defense, I learned the arts of PA (and that I'm a terrible person) from my psychotic grandmother. I'm not entirely sure why, when I know everything that left her lips were lies, I still believe her.

*sniff* I just love your best friend!!!

[snip]


Me too. She and I have known each other for almost twenty years now (since I was six) and while we may snipe at each other sometimes, we've got each other's backs.

OT: Last night she sat up on the phone with me until 3 a.m. because I was having a really hard time with my asthma and she was afraid I would pass out and not be found until the next day. So we sat up with me on my nebulizer and her timing me talking, if I went a full minute without answering her she was ready to call my dad's phone and get him to come check me. I finally got my breathing under control and we hung up. I woke up this morning with a text of "Thinking of you. Send me a text when you get up and make sure you use your machine before you get out of bed." She is really one in a million.

(Really off topic: I. Hate. Trash. Burners. >:D Its illegal to burn anything but wood and paper out here but we have neighbors who burn plastics and tires so they won't have to pay for trash pickup or dump fees. The fumes do terrible things to my lungs. Calling the police does nothing. All they say is "Well yeah its against the law, but we don't have the man power to come out. Can't you get an air filter or something?")
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Adelaide on November 28, 2012, 12:21:38 PM
Reading this thread reminds me of more.

My mother is a yo-yo dieter, but with the same 15 pounds or so. She's not terribly overweight even at her largest. I'm not either, but I could lose 15 pounds as well. Yet when she's on track she's always talking about how great it feels and how you should just eat x y and z and do "just 30 minutes a day" of light exercise. I swear I hear "just 30 minutes a day" echoing around in my brain at all hours because she'll repeat it daily and clasp my hand whenever I'm home. It's her PA way of telling me to shape up. I tried telling her that I do at least an hour of hard exercise three times a week with my martial arts class and that it burns between 800-1000 calories each time, but she brushed that off as a) impossible and b) not as effective as her "just 30 minutes a day".

Well, we went to a gym and got our body fat analyzed. She was about 45% bodyfat where I was about 22% and she was flabbergasted at how that could be so. I told her that if she would do "just 30 minutes a day" of hard exercise she would feel so much better. She doesn't say that anymore.

My parents have also started hinting more strongly about grandchildren. "I can't wait to show your toys to the grandchildren" or "I can't wait to watch these home movies with grandchildren" or "You know, if you have kids we'll have to move to a bigger house". I've started saying "Well, I'd better start fornicating this instant!" or I say "Hm, if I have kids with Current Interest and he's 40 right now, he'll be 58 when they graduate high school..." which makes them fall silent, as they quickly remember that I am not married and they do not want me to marry this man and have children with him.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on November 28, 2012, 12:48:13 PM
This is something that occurred at least 15 years ago, and it still gets me mad when I think about it ...

When our daughter was very small (just over a year old), we were invited to spend Christmas at my in-laws' place, which was a 2.5 hour drive away.  MIL had asked that we be there for Christmas Eve and stay overnight.    Christmas Eve happened to fall on a weekday that year, so my husband and I both had to work until 5:00.  We knew how tricky it would be driving with a baby for 2.5 hours in the late afternoon/early evening, since she was sure to get hungry or bored, plus the road conditions weren't the greatest (we live in a wintry climate).  So, we said "Thanks anyway, but we'd rather come Christmas morning."  MIL wasn't pleased, saying only "Fine, but make sure you get here by 10:00 a.m.  That's when we're going to open presents."

So, on Christmas morning we hurriedly opened our gifts to each other, got some food into the three of us, and piled into the car.  We pulled up in front of my in-laws' house at 9:58 a.m. and grinned at each other in triumph - we had made it, with a couple of minutes to spare!

Well, we entered the house - and that's when we saw torn wrapping paper and unwrapped gifts everywhere.  My husband, who normally wouldn't say boo to a goose, was furious and asked his mother why they hadn't waited for us.  She said airily "Oh, the kids got so excited; they couldn't wait."

I should mention that the "kids" in question were my husband's brother and sister, who were 22 and 27 at the time. 

The reason I'm posting this story in this thread is that it just occurred to me, after all these years, that I'm pretty sure that was a passive-aggressive move on MIL's part to punish us for not coming out on Christmas Eve like she'd wanted.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on November 28, 2012, 02:08:28 PM
^ My family did that one year, with Thanksgiving. We were going to DH's family's Thanksgiving lunch, and then were driving ~3 hours to my family for dinner. My family is well aware that T-day food is really important to me, and that the food at DH's family is usually pretty lacking. They also knew we were going to be pushing it to get there by dinner, but that we really wanted to be there on time. I was also bringing dessert. And my grandparents were going to be there, and I really wanted to see them.

So, after cutting DH's T-day a little short, driving like mad to get to my parents' place, and rushing in the front door, we find...everyone napping and all the food put away. Apparently my mom (who's obsessed with my weight) had decided that since I was already having a Thanksgiving meal, I didn't need another so chose to serve all the food earlier that day. And because they had just eaten a big meal, my grandparents had gone back to their hotel to rest, so they weren't even there when we arrived.  >:(
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on November 28, 2012, 02:23:15 PM
That's awful, BabyMama!  I don't even know where to begin - I'm still stuck on the notion that your mother thought you needed to lose weight and therefore wouldn't save Thanksgiving food for you.   :o

There was one good thing that came out of that long-ago Christmas.  For a few years after that, every time MIL said "We're hosting Christmas dinner, so be at our house by such-and-such a time on such-and-such a day to open presents"), we'd say politely "We'll get there when we get there.  Don't worry about waiting for us."  (Thinking to ourselves:   "You wouldn't anyway.")  That way, we were able to enjoy a leisurely Christmas morning with just us and our daughters.

After a certain point, we realized that the lovely relaxed Christmas morning was the best part of the day.  My MIL has never liked me and is a very cold person, so spending the afternoon and evening with her and the rest of the in-laws was never much fun.   In fact, apart from the fact that we had turkey for dinner, it was pretty  much like any other day.  My husband and I finally said "We're going to spend Christmas at home from now on.  See you in the New Year."  OH BOY, you'd think that we'd suddenly announced that we were becoming Satanists, but we stuck to our guns.  That's what we've done for the last four years, and it's been WONDERFUL. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sophia on November 28, 2012, 02:42:51 PM
BabyMama, no wonder you said in the other thread that you didn't want to see your parents fro Christmas. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Redneck Gravy on November 28, 2012, 03:01:02 PM
Does anyone remember the thread when my sister begged me to come for Thanksgiving dinner, then after driving six hours in the sleet, snow and ice; I get there only to discover she has left town for the weekend?


http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=19680.msg431613#msg431613
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sophia on November 28, 2012, 03:20:17 PM
I think I blocked that one out.  Sometimes a little amnesia is helpful for my mental health and outlook on life.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on November 28, 2012, 03:46:14 PM
I don't know if the crap my family has pulled is actually PA or just because they're scattered.

There have been a couple of times when I've hosted a meal and managed to come put with a menu that pleases all parties involved.  This is no mean feat - the "core" group of family that gets together has all kinds of dietary restrictions/preferences.

And then, something of this sort happens: I get a call from a family member about two hours beforehand telling me, "Well that's too much work for you.  We're just going to get sandwiches from the deli."  (Keep in mind, said family member had already rejected sandwiches because they were too "carb heavy.")  My response is always, "I'm not going to change my plans now.  I already have it cooking."  Then other family members chime in, "Well if you don't want sandwiches, how about we go to In 'n Out?  I LOVE in 'n Out!"  I have to explain multiple times that they all agreed on tacos and I have five pounds of taco meat in my crockpot plus 100 shells.  Not to mention 20 avocados that are going to go bad.

Invariably this means they come over and in my kitchen start a "Snowflake trash section" about what an unreasonable control freak I am. 

And while they do so an adult will go through my cupboards and find something like half a bar of luxury chocolate.  They will then walk out into my living room to eat it in front of the children who will say, "But I want that!" and cry because family member is eating the only portion in front of them. They will tell the children to ask me for more and ask me why I don't have 20 servings of everything in my kitchen. 

I actually planned this fabulous revenge a few years ago.  I would serve nothing but peanut butter sandwiches.  Plus, I'd have limited portions of a great "leftover" dessert and make sure the offending adults would have none.  I also planned to pick up some "relationship red flags" pamphlets from a local shelter and make it into a bingo game where you got a prize when someone said five abusive statements in a row.

And then I realized the solution was to stop hosting. 

Best revenge EVER.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Esther_bunny on November 28, 2012, 04:25:19 PM
I love this thread! I have a PA mom and am just now learning how to deal with her and I'm 38.
I still haven't found the answer to, "Was I bad mother?" (Well yes and no.) I guess I could ask, "When?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Auntie Mame on November 28, 2012, 04:29:48 PM
I love this thread! I have a PA mom and am just now learning how to deal with her and I'm 38.
I still haven't found the answer to, "Was I bad mother?" (Well yes and no.) I guess I could ask, "When?"

I will straight up tell my mom to knock it off when she aks that question. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sirius on November 28, 2012, 04:41:09 PM
Spookycatlady's wedding story reminded me of my own.  My dad threw a fit when my sister got married about walking her down the aisle and even showing up because "he hated that kind of thing" and didn't want to dress up.  Sheand my mom literally cried and begged him to until he relented and showed up. When I got married about ten years later, I was expecting the same reaction.  I had been down that road with him before about my high school graduation (that's a whole other story) so I was prepared.  When he said he didn't think he would be able to come and didn't want to walk me down the aisle, I just smiled and said, "Okay, I have already talked to Friend and he is more than willing to do the job."  He started sputteringand acting offended and saying, "You know I'm kidding!"  I let him know that his games and manipulations wouldn't work on me anymore.  I will say that he never pulled those stunts with me anymore after that because I just called him on it.

My dad said did the same thing about my wedding, and I pulled rank:  "You gave away Older Sis and you gave away Younger Sis, and, by jiggies, you're giving me away!"  And he did.  Now I'd be tempted to tell him, "Okay, I'll get Other Person to do it.  I'm sure he'll be honored," and watch what happens. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on November 28, 2012, 05:49:47 PM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: QueenofAllThings on November 28, 2012, 05:57:12 PM
Who are all these women asking 'Was I a bad mother?'  That would never occur to my mom.  She wasn't a bad mother, but I was her first, so somewhat experimental.  Now, HER mother - she WAS a bad mother. And in complete denial about it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Giggity on November 28, 2012, 06:07:05 PM
Once, when I was being a mouthy teenager (yeah, I know, someone better call the Department of Redundancy Department), I asked my mother if she thought she'd done a good job raising me. She said, "Well, yeah, I guess. I only broke one leg, and pinned your diaper to you twice."

(Broken leg story: when I was almost a year old, Mom was taking me for a ride on her bike. This would have been 1970, so the seat was one that I could swing my little legs around out of. She was pedaling, I stuck my leg out, and WHAM foot met spokes. Result: one toddler in leg cast for awhile.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Auntie Mame on November 28, 2012, 06:09:11 PM
Who are all these women asking 'Was I a bad mother?'  That would never occur to my mom.  She wasn't a bad mother, but I was her first, so somewhat experimental.  Now, HER mother - she WAS a bad mother. And in complete denial about it.

It's a pathetic bid for attention.  I know with my Mom it's the perfect way to keep attention all on her all the time.  It creates this perfect loop where you keep people going around and around because they (generic they) have to "convince" you (generic you) that it's not true and you keep the argument going as long as you want by tearfully stating over and over "but I am bad mother" *sob*.  It's right up there with the "so and so hates me" tactic.

It took me years to figure out what she was doing and now I flat out to refuse to play her twisted little "LOOK AT ME" game.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: KB on November 28, 2012, 06:13:35 PM
Well, we entered the house - and that's when we saw torn wrapping paper and unwrapped gifts everywhere.  My husband, who normally wouldn't say boo to a goose, was furious and asked his mother why they hadn't waited for us.  She said airily "Oh, the kids got so excited; they couldn't wait."

I would have turned around and walked straight back out again. Home and enjoy the day the way you wanted, then and forever more.

Christmas/Thanksgiving/Birthday/etc does not HAVE to involve EVERY member of your family. It should be about what makes YOU and those you actually care about happy.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on November 28, 2012, 06:54:00 PM
Dh will sometimes say "I'm thirsty" or "A drink would be really nice right now." I just look at him and say "Yeah, wouldn't it?" That's when he sticks his tongue out at me, calls me ornery and asks "Will you please get me something to drink?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on November 28, 2012, 07:07:11 PM
Quote
I would have turned around and walked straight back out again. Home and enjoy the day the way you wanted, then and forever more.

With 20/20 hindsight, I really wish we had!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on November 28, 2012, 07:21:49 PM
BabyMama, no wonder you said in the other thread that you didn't want to see your parents fro Christmas.

Sigh. My personal affront is now making me remember every bad event over my lifetime. There was also the time when she wanted this specific cake made for Christmas, and when it appeared she wasn't going to make it, I did it...and she yelled at me because she had an idea of wanting to frost the cake RIGHT before serving it (whipped cream based) and because I'd frosted the cake early I "ruined Christmas." Yeah...

They usually are okay people. But they really have been getting worse. I dread to think of what my mom will be like when she's elderly.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: sunnygirl on November 28, 2012, 07:26:25 PM
My grandmother was very PA, and I was always the only one who could deal with her. I tend to naturally be very obtuse when it comes to 'hinting' anyway, and when I became a teenager I was smart enough to recognise what was going on. I remember one vacation she, my mother and I took together, where she made my mother drive for two hours to get to the town (Portsmouth, a famous and beautiful historical seaside town). We had a drink and a sandwich in a pub, then she expected us to get back in the car and drive back to the hotel. We wanted to look round the famous sights. So she pulled the whole, "well FINE then GO, I'll just sit in the car, don't worry about me I'll be fine just sitting in the car in the multi-story car park all day!" So I said, "That's great, we'll leave the radio on, see ya!" Needless to says she soon changed her mind. My mother was overjoyed that I didn't give in to her martyr act, but the big downside is that, because that's what my mother is used to, she never took any non-martyr complaint very seriously. Like if I was ill, I'd never get taken to the doctor because she'd assume if I was really sick I'd be kicking up a huge fuss, and it took her years to learn that I don't do that. So these things can be dangerous psychologically.

As someone with a rather PA mother (she got better...sorta), I'm loving these responses!

I still won't acknowledge her comments about how it'd be nice to have another wedding anytime soon though  :-\

Tell her you adopted two poodles and they are getting married.  They would have to be poodles, poodles look great in veils and bow ties.  And I like saying the word poodle.  Poodle.

Going to have to disagree with you there! (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?225650-French-Bulldog-wedding-)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Nornster on November 28, 2012, 07:48:42 PM

My parents have also started hinting more strongly about grandchildren. "I can't wait to show your toys to the grandchildren" or "I can't wait to watch these home movies with grandchildren" or "You know, if you have kids we'll have to move to a bigger house". I've started saying "Well, I'd better start fornicating this instant!" or I say "Hm, if I have kids with Current Interest and he's 40 right now, he'll be 58 when they graduate high school..." which makes them fall silent, as they quickly remember that I am not married and they do not want me to marry this man and have children with him.

Ah, yes - one of the joys of having a child when you're 40 (both me and my husband) is that it's a very easy number to work with "when the kid is X, you'll be Y" and do the math in your head.  The neighborhood stoner, whose wife was expecting at the same time we were, said to my husband, "Dude, what if you have a boy?  When he's 18, you'll be, like, 58 - how will you play pickup basketball with him?"  As I said, this guy has fried many brain cells, but that math even he could manage on the spot.

BTW, we had a girl, and as she's always been in the 5th percentile in height for her age, I'm not sure that basketball will be her sport, anyway.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Winterlight on November 28, 2012, 08:33:29 PM
Who are all these women asking 'Was I a bad mother?'  That would never occur to my mom.  She wasn't a bad mother, but I was her first, so somewhat experimental.  Now, HER mother - she WAS a bad mother. And in complete denial about it.

Validation. They want you to say, "You were the best!"

OTOH, my mom would never think to ask this question, and I have spontaneously told her she was a good mom. She liked hearing it- possibly even more because it wasn't a demand.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on November 28, 2012, 08:53:45 PM
My kids tell me I'm the best mom they ever had, which makes me laugh when I'm the only mother they've ever had.  I know what they mean but it's still funny.

I admit to being a bit PA myself at times.  Like when one of them will ask me a question, such as "What gifts did the wise men bring to the manger?" And as soon as I open my mouth they start a whole new conversation with each other.  On more than one occasion I've said "Oh don't bother waiting for the answer, I'm just talking to myself, here."

Once the middle pirate said "Well at least you're used to it!" I couldn't help it, I laughed.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Auntie Mame on November 28, 2012, 09:44:30 PM

As someone with a rather PA mother (she got better...sorta), I'm loving these responses!

I still won't acknowledge her comments about how it'd be nice to have another wedding anytime soon though  :-\

Tell her you adopted two poodles and they are getting married.  They would have to be poodles, poodles look great in veils and bow ties.  And I like saying the word poodle.  Poodle.

Going to have to disagree with you there! (http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?225650-French-Bulldog-wedding-)

Okay, they win for cuteness.  But poodle is still more fun to say than french bulldog.  poodle poodle poodle
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sophia on November 28, 2012, 09:49:40 PM
BabyMama, no wonder you said in the other thread that you didn't want to see your parents fro Christmas.

Sigh. My personal affront is now making me remember every bad event over my lifetime. There was also the time when she wanted this specific cake made for Christmas, and when it appeared she wasn't going to make it, I did it...and she yelled at me because she had an idea of wanting to frost the cake RIGHT before serving it (whipped cream based) and because I'd frosted the cake early I "ruined Christmas." Yeah...

They usually are okay people. But they really have been getting worse. I dread to think of what my mom will be like when she's elderly.

Have you ever read the Great Santini?  Or, well, any book Conroy wrote with parents in it.  Something about the way you describe your parents reminds me of Conroy and his parents.  He would describe some really messed up story from his childhood.  Not CPS messed up, but shake-your-head messed up.  Then he'd say, "But, really, they were really OK." 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on November 28, 2012, 10:24:37 PM
BabyMama, no wonder you said in the other thread that you didn't want to see your parents fro Christmas.

Sigh. My personal affront is now making me remember every bad event over my lifetime. There was also the time when she wanted this specific cake made for Christmas, and when it appeared she wasn't going to make it, I did it...and she yelled at me because she had an idea of wanting to frost the cake RIGHT before serving it (whipped cream based) and because I'd frosted the cake early I "ruined Christmas." Yeah...

They usually are okay people. But they really have been getting worse. I dread to think of what my mom will be like when she's elderly.

Have you ever read the Great Santini?  Or, well, any book Conroy wrote with parents in it.  Something about the way you describe your parents reminds me of Conroy and his parents.  He would describe some really messed up story from his childhood.  Not CPS messed up, but shake-your-head messed up.  Then he'd say, "But, really, they were really OK."

I read Jenny Lawson aka the Bloggess' memoir, "Let's Pretend This Never Happened," (a telling title if there ever was one.) She describes her dad as this total nutball who was so determined NOT to be normal or conventional that he did outlandishly insane things but never considered the social or emotional toll it took on his family.  Like setting a baby bobcat loose in the house to see how the kids would react. 

One of her more upsetting stories was when Jenny and her sister were little and money was tight, her dad would announce that they were going to see a movie on Saturday afternoon. This was a huge treat because the family rarely had money to spend on things like movies. The girls would spend all day pouring over the newspaper movie listings, painstakingly deciding what they wanted to see and what time would be best.  Then they would discuss what snacks they wanted from the concession stand and where they should sit. They would present Dad with their decision and he would say, "Great!  Do you have any money?"

And of course, the girls didn't.  So there was no way they could go to the movies. And the girls would be crushed.  But Dad would jostle their shoulders as they cried and said, "But wasn't it fun when we THOUGHT we were going to the movies?"

Jenny was quick to add that her dad wasn't a mean person, but I disagree.   
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on November 29, 2012, 02:30:22 AM
BabyMama, no wonder you said in the other thread that you didn't want to see your parents fro Christmas.

Sigh. My personal affront is now making me remember every bad event over my lifetime. There was also the time when she wanted this specific cake made for Christmas, and when it appeared she wasn't going to make it, I did it...and she yelled at me because she had an idea of wanting to frost the cake RIGHT before serving it (whipped cream based) and because I'd frosted the cake early I "ruined Christmas." Yeah...

They usually are okay people. But they really have been getting worse. I dread to think of what my mom will be like when she's elderly.

Have you ever read the Great Santini?  Or, well, any book Conroy wrote with parents in it.  Something about the way you describe your parents reminds me of Conroy and his parents.  He would describe some really messed up story from his childhood.  Not CPS messed up, but shake-your-head messed up.  Then he'd say, "But, really, they were really OK."

I read Jenny Lawson aka the Bloggess' memoir, "Let's Pretend This Never Happened," (a telling title if there ever was one.) She describes her dad as this total nutball who was so determined NOT to be normal or conventional that he did outlandishly insane things but never considered the social or emotional toll it took on his family.  Like setting a baby bobcat loose in the house to see how the kids would react. 

One of her more upsetting stories was when Jenny and her sister were little and money was tight, her dad would announce that they were going to see a movie on Saturday afternoon. This was a huge treat because the family rarely had money to spend on things like movies. The girls would spend all day pouring over the newspaper movie listings, painstakingly deciding what they wanted to see and what time would be best.  Then they would discuss what snacks they wanted from the concession stand and where they should sit. They would present Dad with their decision and he would say, "Great!  Do you have any money?"

And of course, the girls didn't.  So there was no way they could go to the movies. And the girls would be crushed.  But Dad would jostle their shoulders as they cried and said, "But wasn't it fun when we THOUGHT we were going to the movies?"

Jenny was quick to add that her dad wasn't a mean person, but I disagree.   

That may be the cruelest non-violent person I'd ever heard of.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on November 29, 2012, 02:31:41 AM
I love this thread! I have a PA mom and am just now learning how to deal with her and I'm 38.
I still haven't found the answer to, "Was I bad mother?" (Well yes and no.) I guess I could ask, "When?"

Mom had a lot of PA tendencies (she LOVED to push my buttons for some strange reason), but if she'd have asked me this, I'd have straight up said "Eh, only during the times when you passively aggressively ask me whether or not you're a bad mother."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on November 29, 2012, 05:12:47 AM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

Have I got a story! 

Two nights before Nephew's (Jim) wedding, his father "Don" and cousin "Ben" had taken him out for a "bachelor night."  When they returned to Jim's house, he went to bed and let Don and Ben crash on the couch/futon.  When Jim got up the next morning, Don and Ben were already up and gone.  He then proceeded to pack up and drive to the wedding location.

In the meantime, Jim's wife "Lisa" had gone out with myself, my sister and a few friends to local college town for pizza and beer.  Lisa then went to her mother's house to pick up some of the wedding stuff, then back to Jim's to shower, change and grab the rest of the stuff, including the Jelly Bellys that were to be placed into small bags as wedding favors.  She couldn't find them, and as she looked for the missing bags, discovered that several other bags of candies and chocolates were missing as well.

After the wedding, it came out that Don and Ben had decided that Jim and Lisa were too fat to have all that candy around their house and had stolen all of it and either ate it themselves or tossed it in a public dumpster.  Lisa confronted both of them and, not only did neither one apologize, they reiterated that Jim and Lisa were fat.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on November 29, 2012, 06:26:13 AM
That sound you heard was my jaw hitting the floor!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Nora on November 29, 2012, 06:58:49 AM
And that echo that followed was mine...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on November 29, 2012, 07:29:26 AM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

Have I got a story! 

Two nights before Nephew's (Jim) wedding, his father "Don" and cousin "Ben" had taken him out for a "bachelor night."  When they returned to Jim's house, he went to bed and let Don and Ben crash on the couch/futon.  When Jim got up the next morning, Don and Ben were already up and gone.  He then proceeded to pack up and drive to the wedding location.

In the meantime, Jim's wife "Lisa" had gone out with myself, my sister and a few friends to local college town for pizza and beer.  Lisa then went to her mother's house to pick up some of the wedding stuff, then back to Jim's to shower, change and grab the rest of the stuff, including the Jelly Bellys that were to be placed into small bags as wedding favors.  She couldn't find them, and as she looked for the missing bags, discovered that several other bags of candies and chocolates were missing as well.

After the wedding, it came out that Don and Ben had decided that Jim and Lisa were too fat to have all that candy around their house and had stolen all of it and either ate it themselves or tossed it in a public dumpster.  Lisa confronted both of them and, not only did neither one apologize, they reiterated that Jim and Lisa were fat.

Ugh, that's awful!  After Don and Ben were excused from any bridal party duties (I know Don was his father, so disinviting wasn't an option.  But it's CLOSE thing.) I would be so tempted to put up a little sign at what was supposed to be the favor table saying, "Pardon the lack of favors.  If you'd like to know what happened to our expressions of thanks for your attending our wedding, please talk to Don and Ben."

But that's probably fighting rudeness with rudeness.

What a couple of jerks.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on November 29, 2012, 07:37:39 AM
BabyMama, no wonder you said in the other thread that you didn't want to see your parents fro Christmas.

Sigh. My personal affront is now making me remember every bad event over my lifetime. There was also the time when she wanted this specific cake made for Christmas, and when it appeared she wasn't going to make it, I did it...and she yelled at me because she had an idea of wanting to frost the cake RIGHT before serving it (whipped cream based) and because I'd frosted the cake early I "ruined Christmas." Yeah...

They usually are okay people. But they really have been getting worse. I dread to think of what my mom will be like when she's elderly.

Have you ever read the Great Santini?  Or, well, any book Conroy wrote with parents in it.  Something about the way you describe your parents reminds me of Conroy and his parents.  He would describe some really messed up story from his childhood.  Not CPS messed up, but shake-your-head messed up.  Then he'd say, "But, really, they were really OK."

It's added to my ebook wishlist. I already had the Bloggess' book on there too. I'm getting all sorts of E-hell recommended books this week! Which is great, I've been trying to figure out what to read when I'm on my Christmas vacation. And it's always fun to read about people who have more dysfunctional lives than I do ;)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: redcat on November 29, 2012, 07:56:26 AM
Re PA fat comments...

When I went to my university graduation ceremony, I wore a black skirt suit and a black top.  My grandad said "Black's a very slimming colour, isn't it?". Yeah, thanks.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gingerzing on November 29, 2012, 08:38:05 AM
DH wonders why I don't deal with most of my dad's family. 
They aren't bad, and I like uncle #4 (Dad was the eldest of 5 boys).  However,  I learned VERY VERY early that I was not a favored grandchild.  Even though I am the first grandchild for that family, I was a girl *gasp*, and I was born in Oct to parents who were married in March.  (Do the math and again *gasp*)   Oddly, my great-grandmother liked me even though my grandfather was not her favorite child.  See a trend in this family?

Fast forward to when I was a young adult and had just moved back into the basic area.  I was living about an hour away from hometown where grandparent's live (and two uncles)  I was also working retail.  So when the invite came for holiday meal, I was pleased that I could go, but I called my aunt to explain that I would be cutting it close to make it right on time for dinner at 1 o'clock.  And could they hold dinner for 15 minutes (1:15) for me to make it there?  Wasn't a problem.  Except when I got there, they had already served dinner at 12, but there were some leftovers still.   My mom (Dad had passed away) sat in the kitchen with me while I ate, while the rest of the family went out to the living room. 

It took a while for me to deal with that.  Basically DH and I still get invited to the family holiday, but I just decline.   

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Winterlight on November 29, 2012, 09:17:00 AM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

If someone took my chocolate without express permission, they wouldn't survive the offense! :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on November 29, 2012, 09:31:51 AM
This isn't a traumatic story, just one that's funny to me in retrospect, and one I've told here before. This is how my grandma, possibly, learned that PA indirectness doesn't necessarily work on children. (I think she was probably raised to never openly ask for things or get angry. I saw her openly angry exactly once in the whole twenty-odd years I knew her.)

Anyway, she used to have us kids--me, my siblings, our cousins--over for sleepovers from time to time. This only happened about once a year and was a big giddy thing for us kids. We looked forward to it avidly and would stay up all night gabbing with our cousins, playing favorite tapes at each other and singing along, and probably being absolute holy terrors.

Grandma used to come into the guest room once every half hour or so and announce "Grandma's going to bed now" and then leave. And then come back a half hour later and do it again. And again. We kids would call out a cheery "Good night!" and go back to whatever crazy stuff we were doing, because the hint was sailing right over our heads. We had no idea why she felt the need to announce it!  ;D Finally, when I told it as a funny story to my mom after one of these sleepovers, Mom explained that Grandma was actually trying to tell us to go to bed and quit making noise. Whoops!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Daquiri40 on November 29, 2012, 09:55:39 AM
I had (had) a friend that was massivly PA.  She always thought she was being so subtle...but she was about as subtle as a sledgehammer.  One weekend I had had enough and became really PA myself.

I was driving my car.  This was unusual because she always wanted control and wanted to drive.  We took a short weekend trip.  One the second day she was bored and wanted to drive but wouldn't come out and say it.  She said things like, "I always what one of these type of cars would drive like?"  "I was thinking about buying a car like this...I wonder if I would like it?"  Sighing out the window, "I really like going places, but I usually like to drive."  She would say PA things instead of just saying, "Can I drive your car?"

The whole reason I was driving instead of her is because she told me she always had to drive and it was a lot of wear and tear on her car.  She always WANTED to drive.

I said things like, "You could probably take a test drive at a dealership."  "You may like it - you should go look at a car lot."  "I like driving too!"  And on and on.

It was fun!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: *new*mommyagain36 on November 29, 2012, 10:27:01 AM
Actually, this one was accidental but worked so well I could kick myself for not doing it any sooner.
I had a Great Aunt who was so...mean.  She would just say the meanest things.  Yet my Mom would force us to visit her practically weekly to be "respectful."  When I was younger she would say "you are so pretty, it's a shame you're so fat" when, at that time I was just chubby and a kid so really, who cares.  By the time I was 16 I had heard her backhanded remarks so many times I guess I just reached a breaking point.  She was living in an assisted living home and during a visit I gave her a prom picture.  She looked at it for the longest time, then she said " You look so beautiful.  How did you manage to find such a pretty dress when you're so darn fat?"  I just burst out laughing.   I mean, why would you compliment someone and then tell them they're "so darn fat"  And I couldn't stop.  I laughed hysterically and walked out of her house still laughing.  I drove away from there laughing like a loon.   And never spoke to her again.  It was very cleansing to say the least.  My Mom said Aunt asked about me for years afterward and wondered if I was ever coming to visit her again.  My Mom said, "I don't think so" to which my Mom said Aunt always looked a little puzzled.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on November 29, 2012, 10:39:13 AM
Quote
That may be the cruelest non-violent person I'd ever heard of.

Me too.  I'm disgusted. 

I have another PA story - this is when my then-boyfriend, now-husband were dating.  It was Valentine's Day, and he had a beautiful vase full of red roses delivered to me at work.  One of my co-workers, whose husband had gotten her nothing, kept making pointed remarks about how lovely my flowers were.  Clueless, I kept saying "Yes, aren't they gorgeous?", meanwhile thinking "Why does she keep commenting on my flowers?".

Evidently she got fed up with the subtle approach not working, because one of her friends came up to me and said point-blank that I should give Dolores some of my roses, since I had so many and she had none!  I just laughed in her face and said "Um ... no."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on November 29, 2012, 10:45:16 AM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

Have I got a story! 

Two nights before Nephew's (Jim) wedding, his father "Don" and cousin "Ben" had taken him out for a "bachelor night."  When they returned to Jim's house, he went to bed and let Don and Ben crash on the couch/futon.  When Jim got up the next morning, Don and Ben were already up and gone.  He then proceeded to pack up and drive to the wedding location.

In the meantime, Jim's wife "Lisa" had gone out with myself, my sister and a few friends to local college town for pizza and beer.  Lisa then went to her mother's house to pick up some of the wedding stuff, then back to Jim's to shower, change and grab the rest of the stuff, including the Jelly Bellys that were to be placed into small bags as wedding favors.  She couldn't find them, and as she looked for the missing bags, discovered that several other bags of candies and chocolates were missing as well.

After the wedding, it came out that Don and Ben had decided that Jim and Lisa were too fat to have all that candy around their house and had stolen all of it and either ate it themselves or tossed it in a public dumpster.  Lisa confronted both of them and, not only did neither one apologize, they reiterated that Jim and Lisa were fat.

Dumpster my foot.  I'd be tempted to call them on that.  It's ironic when people who pig out trash the weight of others.

I once had a co-worker who was big-boned.  (I'll call her Ellen) She did dancing, ran marathons, biked over Thailand for her vacation etc.  She ate like a rabbit (healthy portions of healthy foods.)  She was athletic, well-toned, and energetic with beautiful curves.  She did register a slightly high BMI, but every doctor who examined her told her not to worry because she was wonderfully healthy.  She was of good, solid Viking stock.

So one day a co-worker (who was no string bean himself but not quite so athletic) came into her office to ask about a project she was working on.  She had a mid-afternoon snack of a half-cup of carrots and a tablespoon of peanut butter that she had just taken out of her bag.   Remember that she was extremely active.  By mid-afternoon she had already biked 10 miles to work and done a quick 5 mile run on her lunch break.  So you can imagine that she had a good appetite.

Now this co-worker was PA personified.  (I'll call him Bob.)  I could go on and on.  He saw the snack and said, "I'd sure wish I had thought of that."

She said, "Feel free to have a carrot."

He then proceeded to dig in and start eating her snack.  He said only, "I just don't know why I'm so hungry."

The great thing was that she was totally direct to his passive-aggression. 

Bob: Oh, I should take better care of myself.
Her: Then go down to the cafeteria and get your own snack.
Bob: I just don't have anyone to tell help me to remember about things like this.
Her: Well, if you steal snacks, it tends to isolate people!

This went on for awhile with them talking about the project and then him making these PA "woe is me" comments and going back to the snack and stealing more carrots and peanut butter.  She would be blunt in response and take it away from him. I was BARELY keeping a straight face.

Finally he said: Well, I don't think large women should be eating peanut butter.
Her: It's MY peanut butter and it's going to make ME fatter, not YOU.

I don't know how I even stayed professional.  He never did get a clue.  And he never could figure out why she wasn't interested in dating him.  He thought a "large woman" like herself would be thrilled to get any date. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on November 29, 2012, 10:52:58 AM
He was going to save her from the evils of her snack...by snarfing it all down himself?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on November 29, 2012, 10:59:48 AM
He was going to save her from the evils of her snack...by snarfing it all down himself?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  ::)

I think he was sure she'd be touched by his martyr tendencies.  When he left our company, he sent her emails saying how lonely he was hint. hint.  He wanted to go out.  Hint. Hint.  He didn't think a woman like him would ever take pity on a man like him hint. hint.  She replied saying that since she didn't have to work with him, she didn't have to listen to that anymore.  And she send him the numbers of some therapists.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on November 29, 2012, 11:01:23 AM
He was going to save her from the evils of her snack...by snarfing it all down himself?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  ::)

I think he was sure she'd be touched by his martyr tendencies.  When he left our company, he sent her emails saying how lonely he was hint. hint.  He wanted to go out.  Hint. Hint.  He didn't think a woman like him would ever take pity on a man like him hint. hint.  She replied saying that since she didn't have to work with him, she didn't have to listen to that anymore.  And she send him the numbers of some therapists.

I think I like this Ellen!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on November 29, 2012, 11:11:13 AM
...    Don and Ben had decided that Jim and Lisa were too fat to have all that candy around their house and had stolen all of it and either ate it themselves or tossed it in a public dumpster.  ...

I certainly do hope that Don and Ben were presented with a bill for all the wedding favors they either ate or chucked!!   :o
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: LazyDaisy on November 29, 2012, 11:36:10 AM
Quote
That may be the cruelest non-violent person I'd ever heard of.

Me too.  I'm disgusted. 

(snip)

I read that book and it's actually extremely funny. The subtitle is "A mostly true memoir" and if you follow her blog, she is prone to a good bit of exaggeration just to be funny. She didn't come from an abusive home, just a very poor rural upbringing. She describes her own book as: "You should probably go buy it right now, because it’s filled with awesomeness. And cocaine. But only if you hollow it out and fill it with your own cocaine. I’m not buying you cocaine. Because I love you. And that’s why you should buy my book. Because I’m saving you from yourself. And from cocaine." So I would take the whole story of the movie day with a grain of salt. I'm not saying it didn't happen at all, but probably not quite so dramatically.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Emmy on November 29, 2012, 12:15:14 PM
This isn't a traumatic story, just one that's funny to me in retrospect, and one I've told here before. This is how my grandma, possibly, learned that PA indirectness doesn't necessarily work on children. (I think she was probably raised to never openly ask for things or get angry. I saw her openly angry exactly once in the whole twenty-odd years I knew her.)

My MIL is the same way.  She really is a sweet woman, but she has some interesting quirks.  Shortly before DH and I met, she came down to visit him.  They were in the supermarket and DH wanted to buy the mixed salad greens.  MIL said "You like iceburg lettuce, you don't like the mixed greens.  They are so bitter.  We'll just pick up the iceburg lettuce."  DH who was around 30 at the time insisted he knew what he liked and he liked the mixed greens.  MIL still tried to insist that DH wanted the iceburg lettuce.  We know that she really didn't care for the mixed greens and wanted the iceburg lettuce, but refused to say so.  Our generation calls it the Jedi mind trick when MIL tries to get her kids/IL's to think something was their idea when it was her idea.

MIL also doesn't want anybody to lift a finger for her.  When visiting and sitting in an uncomfortable chair that was broken, she insisted it was the best chair in the world and she was happy there when somebody else offered their chair.  Recently, we had the family over and they were sitting a high table that required chairs that were bar stool height.  There weren't enough chairs and MIL sat in a shorter one, so she was eye level with the counter.  She insisted that she was comfortable and happy and didn't want a higher chair.  When she insists she is fine, we usually offer again, but let her stay where she is if she claims she is comfortable.  DH's uncle (MIL's brother) is the same way as MIL and they can spend several minutes going back and forth insisting that they get the uncomfortable chair.  The nice thing about MIL is she isn't a martyr that expects something in return or goes on about the situation.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: AfleetAlex on November 29, 2012, 12:34:32 PM
Ooh, I have an actual story! (I may have posted this elsewhere sometime or another.)

One summer (I think I was visiting for the weekend) we decided to have dinner on the deck. So we all helped set the table and cook; however, some of the silverware must have gotten left inside. We're all sitting down to eat and Mom looks down at her setting and says in the most forlorn voice, "I don't have a fork."

I smiled and said, "Your legs aren't broken, you can go in the house and get one." (My tone made it clear I was both teasing and calling her on her PA-ness.) Then as the rest of the family was cracking up, I said with another smile, "All you had to do was ask and I would have gotten you a fork!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on November 29, 2012, 12:56:28 PM
Ooh, I have an actual story! (I may have posted this elsewhere sometime or another.)

One summer (I think I was visiting for the weekend) we decided to have dinner on the deck. So we all helped set the table and cook; however, some of the silverware must have gotten left inside. We're all sitting down to eat and Mom looks down at her setting and says in the most forlorn voice, "I don't have a fork."

I smiled and said, "Your legs aren't broken, you can go in the house and get one." (My tone made it clear I was both teasing and calling her on her PA-ness.) Then as the rest of the family was cracking up, I said with another smile, "All you had to do was ask and I would have gotten you a fork!"

I like this.  My family acts so quiet and forlorn and victimized.  They feel like "true love" means you guess what people want and give it to them.  (Any guess why they have crash and burn marriages?)  When I call them out on it, they say, "Well I was being nice about it."  No, you were faking meek.  To be "nice" I expect nice words, no insults.  To be "nice" you need to accept that I love you without acting like your servant.  Furthermore, if you want us to be better than acquaintances, you need nice thoughts behind the nice words. 

When I was 17 I did the exact same things.  (Here's an apology to everyone who knew me in younger days.)  Thank goodness I had friends like you who could call me out in a friendly way.  I soon noticed that my friends and co-workers seemed to genuinely like me after that.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: mmswm on November 29, 2012, 01:06:20 PM
Ooh, I have an actual story! (I may have posted this elsewhere sometime or another.)

One summer (I think I was visiting for the weekend) we decided to have dinner on the deck. So we all helped set the table and cook; however, some of the silverware must have gotten left inside. We're all sitting down to eat and Mom looks down at her setting and says in the most forlorn voice, "I don't have a fork."

I smiled and said, "Your legs aren't broken, you can go in the house and get one." (My tone made it clear I was both teasing and calling her on her PA-ness.) Then as the rest of the family was cracking up, I said with another smile, "All you had to do was ask and I would have gotten you a fork!"

This reminded me of one of the more amusing stories from my summer.  My youngest son had major hip surgery, and during his recovery he broke his foot, so at the time this story takes place, he wasn't getting around very well.  We had gone to a friend's house for dinner and after everybody sat down, my son realized that he didn't have his glass of milk.  He turned to me and told me that he left his milk on the counter, but before I could say anything, my friend looks at him and says "What, is your leg broken?", to which my son replied "Well, actually.  Yes." I about fell over from laughing.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: RebeccainGA on November 29, 2012, 01:17:50 PM
I come from a long line of PA people - my grandmother would win prizes. So would my dad. My sister would be disqualified, as she's a professional. You get the picture.

I have gotten, thanks to my DP, to the point where I just smile and nod. I don't acknowledge anything other than the fact that there are sounds coming out of their mouths. It works.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: goldilocks on November 29, 2012, 02:33:24 PM
PA - ness nearly got DH killed the other night!

I was keeping the baby (18 mos).  I was late getting home with her, and she was sick.  Not really ill, just not feeling well.  So, I'm trying desparately to get her to eat so I can bathe her and get her into bed.  And it's already getting late.

So, I tried to feed her several things and she wouldn't eat.  I finally opened a can of peaches and got her to eat a few of those.  I had left the can on the counter.  DH comes home from a relaxing evening of NOT keeping a sick 18 MO, and says, oh, are you saving this can for some reason?

My reply is not e-hell approved.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: dawbs on November 29, 2012, 02:48:00 PM
Ooh, I have an actual story! (I may have posted this elsewhere sometime or another.)

One summer (I think I was visiting for the weekend) we decided to have dinner on the deck. So we all helped set the table and cook; however, some of the silverware must have gotten left inside. We're all sitting down to eat and Mom looks down at her setting and says in the most forlorn voice, "I don't have a fork."

I smiled and said, "Your legs aren't broken, you can go in the house and get one." (My tone made it clear I was both teasing and calling her on her PA-ness.) Then as the rest of the family was cracking up, I said with another smile, "All you had to do was ask and I would have gotten you a fork!"

I think they learn young...my 2 year old did this the other day.
"oh no oh no oh no oh no.  I so sad.  Katie chocolate milk all gone!"
And *tada!* grandpa rushed to fill it back up again  ;D

(and she considers it an honor for him to do that.  She said 'you're welcome grandpa' when he brought it to her. [mostly she forgets whether it's Thank you or you're welcome she's supposed to say--she knows there's *something* she should say though  ;))
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: QueenofAllThings on November 29, 2012, 02:50:29 PM
A PA Blind Date story -
So I'm out for the first time (and last) with a guy. He keeps saying things like -

Well, that will all change in April!
Of course, after April everything will be different.
Oh yes I do that all the time. At least until April.

On and on and on, and I was d$&@ed if I was going to ask him what was happening in April. Why couldn't he just tell me? I figured marriage or the priesthood.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: MrTango on November 29, 2012, 02:51:33 PM
PA - ness nearly got DH killed the other night!

I was keeping the baby (18 mos).  I was late getting home with her, and she was sick.  Not really ill, just not feeling well.  So, I'm trying desparately to get her to eat so I can bathe her and get her into bed.  And it's already getting late.

So, I tried to feed her several things and she wouldn't eat.  I finally opened a can of peaches and got her to eat a few of those.  I had left the can on the counter.  DH comes home from a relaxing evening of NOT keeping a sick 18 MO, and says, oh, are you saving this can for some reason?

My reply is not e-hell approved.

No offense intended, but what about your husband's question was PA?  Was there something in his tone of voice?

If I saw an empty can on the counter, I'd probably ask the exact same thing.  If she was saving it, I'd leave it alone.  If she wasn't saving it, I'd toss it in the recycle bin for her.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on November 29, 2012, 02:52:02 PM
A PA Blind Date story -
So I'm out for the first time (and last) with a guy. He keeps saying things like -

Well, that will all change in April!
Of course, after April everything will be different.
Oh yes I do that all the time. At least until April.

On and on and on, and I was d$&@ed if I was going to ask him what was happening in April. Why couldn't he just tell me? I figured marriage or the priesthood.

I bet he had a get-rich-quick scheme and he was going to tell you all about how he'd be rich by April if you'd taken the bait.  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: lilfox on November 29, 2012, 03:02:24 PM
PA - ness nearly got DH killed the other night!

I was keeping the baby (18 mos).  I was late getting home with her, and she was sick.  Not really ill, just not feeling well.  So, I'm trying desparately to get her to eat so I can bathe her and get her into bed.  And it's already getting late.

So, I tried to feed her several things and she wouldn't eat.  I finally opened a can of peaches and got her to eat a few of those.  I had left the can on the counter.  DH comes home from a relaxing evening of NOT keeping a sick 18 MO, and says, oh, are you saving this can for some reason?

My reply is not e-hell approved.

No offense intended, but what about your husband's question was PA?  Was there something in his tone of voice?

If I saw an empty can on the counter, I'd probably ask the exact same thing.  If she was saving it, I'd leave it alone.  If she wasn't saving it, I'd toss it in the recycle bin for her.

Having been on the receiving end of comments like that myself, I'm going to guess it was the tone, or the implied notion of "Why didn't you clean this up immediately?"

I have taken to responding to similar comments with "Yes, and I'll deal with it when I have time" or "No, could you please put it away?"  In short, answering the literal question, not the implied comment.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: girlysprite on November 29, 2012, 03:21:59 PM
A story from when DH was still Fiancee. He'd ask me something like 'hey, do you want some chocolate?' well, yes, I wanted some chocolate. His response 'can you also buy some licorice for me while you're buying chocolate?'
It was a sort of joke, but also sorta serious, because he really wanted some licorice. The first time I bought chocolate and 'forgot' the licorice. He looked sad and I shrugged. 'well, when you'll pick up the licorice I forgot, can you also buy the marshmellows that I feel peckish for now?'

The second time he tried this, I told him that I'd only do him favors like that if he asked for them directly. Worked like a charm.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on November 29, 2012, 03:43:24 PM
I used to work with a woman who had some health issues, and among other things, she applied for reasonable accommodations and was given a special chair to accommodate her arthritis. (Most clerks worked at that time standing for the entire day).

Another clerk's nose was bent out of joint.  Nancy found some broken down steno chair, and would sit in it, her eyes only at about counter level, typing with the screen about 6 inches above her head.  It was extremely uncomfortable, but she would squint at her computer screen, sighing and moaning loudly that she was in pain.

Everyone ignored her, as usual, until she found some other way of acting the martyr.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on November 29, 2012, 03:59:28 PM
Ooh, I have an actual story! (I may have posted this elsewhere sometime or another.)

One summer (I think I was visiting for the weekend) we decided to have dinner on the deck. So we all helped set the table and cook; however, some of the silverware must have gotten left inside. We're all sitting down to eat and Mom looks down at her setting and says in the most forlorn voice, "I don't have a fork."

I smiled and said, "Your legs aren't broken, you can go in the house and get one." (My tone made it clear I was both teasing and calling her on her PA-ness.) Then as the rest of the family was cracking up, I said with another smile, "All you had to do was ask and I would have gotten you a fork!"

I like this.  My family acts so quiet and forlorn and victimized.  They feel like "true love" means you guess what people want and give it to them.  (Any guess why they have crash and burn marriages?)   


Argh, snowflake.  I had a roommate in college that thought of "true love" that way.  On Friday night, she was always holed up in our room "sad-sacking out" on her bed, in her sweats and a blanket, watching Sleepless in Seattle and crying because her long-distance (still in high school) boyfriend had upset her somehow.  He went out with his friends.  Didn't he know that she was here at college, alone, staying home to make sure that she wasn't out meeting other boys.  How dare he go out and have fun when she was so miserable!  Why couldn't he protect her feelings like she protected his? 

When I asked why she hadn't told him she felt this way, she said a good boyfriend should just KNOW.  I asked if she would feel better if she went to a party with me and meeting a few new people. She sniffed that she couldn't just go out and party* with strangers like some people.  She cared about her relationship.

(*Please note that I also had a long-distance boyfriend at another college.  We both went out with our friends regularly and trusted each other to have a good time without being unfaithful.  Roommate's emphasis seemed to imply that I was heading out to the local burlesque club for a bout of jello wrestling.  ETA: I am now married to that boyfriend,)

Roommate and I did not share a room the next semester.  I'd hoped that things might calm down after her boyfriend joined her at our college campus.  But through mutual friends, I heard that the Sleepless in Seattle jags were more frequent because the boyfriend couldn't guess what she wanted.  He would want to play video games with friends.  She would say that was fine and then retreat into her movie and jammies. If he didn't realize she was upset, she would call him crying, fussing at him for not realizing it.  Eventually, his friends convinced him to break up with her.

At the time, I didn't recognize it as passive aggressive.  I just thought she was a pain in my butt who kept eating my Pop Tarts.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: turtleIScream on November 29, 2012, 04:22:22 PM
My mom loves to fish for compliments. When we were young teens,my sister and I figured out that's what she was doing when she'd say, "oh, my hair looks awful today, doesn't it?" We used to reassure her, as young kids who just want to make their mom feel better, but then we started agreeing with her. She started to learn after that.

One memorable day, however, mom slipped and made a self-deprecating comment. She caught herself and said, "I wasn't trying to fish for a compliment, honest!" My sister promptly responded, "Good, 'cause you weren't gonna get one!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on November 29, 2012, 09:19:05 PM
It's a testament to my attraction to DH that we continued dating after this one occurance. 

B/G we met in college when I was a freshman and himself a sophomore.  He lived off campus, I lived on and in a dorm right next to the dining hall and we both had meal cards.  One day early in our relationship he says he'll meet me for dinner and then we'd see a movie on campus afterwards.  (they were free and shown in one of the lecture halls)  Well I went downstairs and sat out front of my dorm where I had a good view of the front of the dining hall.  I was supposed to meet him at 5, but the way he talked, it sounded like he was going to meet me outside my dorm.  I waited and waited and he never showed.  Ticked off I gave up and went inside my dorm to vent to a friend and then went to see Godzilla (the one with Matthew Broderick) with her and her boyfriend.

The next day I went walking with DH and he kept dropping all these PA hints that I stood him up.  Turned out, he'd waited inside the dining hall for me and when I didn't show he just went to the woman who swiped our cards and ate alone.  Now there are windows in the front of the dining hall, through which my dorm was easily visible. How he didn't see me waiting I dunno.   

I guess the reason we kept on after that was because we realized we were both at fault for not confirming where we were meeting.  Communication, it surely does wonders.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jules1980 on November 29, 2012, 09:51:26 PM
Ooh, I have an actual story! (I may have posted this elsewhere sometime or another.)

One summer (I think I was visiting for the weekend) we decided to have dinner on the deck. So we all helped set the table and cook; however, some of the silverware must have gotten left inside. We're all sitting down to eat and Mom looks down at her setting and says in the most forlorn voice, "I don't have a fork."

I smiled and said, "Your legs aren't broken, you can go in the house and get one." (My tone made it clear I was both teasing and calling her on her PA-ness.) Then as the rest of the family was cracking up, I said with another smile, "All you had to do was ask and I would have gotten you a fork!"

I think they learn young...my 2 year old did this the other day.
"oh no oh no oh no oh no.  I so sad.  Katie chocolate milk all gone!"
And *tada!* grandpa rushed to fill it back up again  ;D

(and she considers it an honor for him to do that.  She said 'you're welcome grandpa' when he brought it to her. [mostly she forgets whether it's Thank you or you're welcome she's supposed to say--she knows there's *something* she should say though  ;))

That's so cute.  My DD used to say thankyouwelcome.  One word.  She never knew which one to use so she just made it one word.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: CrochetFanatic on November 29, 2012, 11:42:32 PM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

My uncle.  Only in his case, it's the fridge.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: momtwosix on November 30, 2012, 05:43:35 AM
My 3 year old would try the pa route with hisearly intervention  o.t. He would need help with something and rather than ask he would yell out help or open this. His o.t. and I would just ignore him until he asked for help. He knew how to ask for help nicely he just didn't want to.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: yachtchick on November 30, 2012, 10:03:39 AM
poodle - yeah fun but not nearly as much fun as butterfly poop. Still laughing at that thread!

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: GratefulMaria on November 30, 2012, 10:24:19 AM
My mom loves to fish for compliments. When we were young teens,my sister and I figured out that's what she was doing when she'd say, "oh, my hair looks awful today, doesn't it?" We used to reassure her, as young kids who just want to make their mom feel better, but then we started agreeing with her. She started to learn after that.

One memorable day, however, mom slipped and made a self-deprecating comment. She caught herself and said, "I wasn't trying to fish for a compliment, honest!" My sister promptly responded, "Good, 'cause you weren't gonna get one!"

<gasp!>  I forgot all about fishing for compliments!  I must be your long-lost sister.  My mother's the same way.  She bakes -- wonderful food -- for us and used to say things like, "Oh, is the cake I made in the trash already?"  Also, when she talks about something pretty to wear, she'll say it's ridiculous for someone old and ugly to bother.  The poor lady.  She has certainly taught me how not to treat myself.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: CakeBeret on November 30, 2012, 11:31:23 AM
My grandmother has been doing the PA "dying" routine my entire life.

When she's feeling down, she begins sighing sadly and saying things like "Well, I'm ready to die now." She expects that we will all get upset and flutter around her in shock and sympathy. I can't remember a time that it's ever worked for her, but it doesn't stop her from doing it.

She likes to slip "when I die" statements into everyday conversations. If she asks me to take a look at her computer while I'm over, she'll remind me that she wants me to have her computer when she dies. I was very excited about this prospect when she first got the computer and I was 7; as you can imagine, in the intervening years the computer has become less and less appealing. :P

If we do something that offends her, she will say "But I guess it doesn't matter because I'll be dead soon anyway."

I can't imagine having such an unhealthy attitude in my last years, but it's her choice, I guess. Since it's been happening all my life, it's easy to shrug off and not respond to.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on November 30, 2012, 11:36:46 AM
My grandmother has been doing the PA "dying" routine my entire life.

When she's feeling down, she begins sighing sadly and saying things like "Well, I'm ready to die now." She expects that we will all get upset and flutter around her in shock and sympathy. I can't remember a time that it's ever worked for her, but it doesn't stop her from doing it.

She likes to slip "when I die" statements into everyday conversations. If she asks me to take a look at her computer while I'm over, she'll remind me that she wants me to have her computer when she dies. I was very excited about this prospect when she first got the computer and I was 7; as you can imagine, in the intervening years the computer has become less and less appealing. :P

If we do something that offends her, she will say "But I guess it doesn't matter because I'll be dead soon anyway."

I can't imagine having such an unhealthy attitude in my last years, but it's her choice, I guess. Since it's been happening all my life, it's easy to shrug off and not respond to.

It must be a miserable existence to be "dying" for thirty years and never let yourself enjoy anything along the way!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Kiara on November 30, 2012, 12:44:23 PM
It is miserable.  My paternal grandfather was dying from age 55 on.  He lived to be 95.  Every Christmas and anniversary could be the last one, since my grandmother was dying for 20 years.  We never went for Christmas because of weather - the drive was over the mountains and my parents didnt' want to risk it.  We went over Thanksgiving instead.   But EVERY YEAR we heard "Can't you come?  This might be our last Christmas!  Wouldn't it be nice to have the family together?"  (Note: My uncle is the clear favorite, they were never one big happy family.  So let's try and recreate something that never existed.)

My dad could be a pushover for his parents, but it never worked to get us up there.  Eventually my father told his mother "Mom!  You said this was the last Christmas for the last five years!  We're not coming!  We'll see you for Easter!"  Oy.  All that dying, and they never were happy.  Ever.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on November 30, 2012, 12:59:18 PM
My MIL (she of the "didn't wait for us to arrive before opening Christmas presents" story) had a similar "it's the last time" attitude - about her house.  Some background:   she and FIL used to live in Small Town.  They lived there for about 15 years, and that's where my husband and his siblings grew up.  After all but one of their kids had moved out, MIL and FIL bought a house in Larger Town.  They lived there for about 10 years, and we visited them every so often (maybe 3 times per year). 

When they decided to move from Larger Town to Winnipeg, MIL called us and said "You have to come to Larger Town for Easter this year."    My husband asked why, since we usually just did our own thing for Easter.  "Because it'll be the last family dinner in the old house!" 

She was quite insulted and flabbergasted when my husband said "Mum, to be honest, that house never meant much to me.  It wasn't home.  It was just the house that you and Dad lived in, and I won't miss it."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on November 30, 2012, 01:28:09 PM
Along the lines of fishing for compliments and threatening to die...(Warning: This is something that is only funny if you have been around PA people enough to have some black humor about it.)

I had a work friend who was always saying "No one loves me.  No one would miss me if I killed myself."  Of course we would reassure him that we loved him and would miss him very much.  And it was things like, "I made berry cobbler, it's no good.  Here, try some and tell me if I should kill myself."  or "I'm just have no fashion sense.  I should kill myself." or "I'm no good at my job, I wonder if the boss would be happy if I killed myself."  It also turned into begging for favors.  "No one will ever do X for me.  I might as well kill myself."

So we were always complimenting him on his "talents" covering up for his terrible work and offering to give him rides, etc.  Because we figured if we could just support him through his "rough patch" he would be fine, right?

After six months of knowing him, this got very, very old.  Like when his girlfriend broke up with him and he left a voicemail on my (work) answering machine saying, "I need to talk to someone or I'm going to kill myself" and of course since he left it at 6:00 at night I didn't get it until the next day.  He didn't show up for work the next day.  Oh, and when he came in two days later, he wanted to see who was "sad."  Of course the boss didn't want to fire him because she didn't want his death on her hands.  He was ticked off at me because I called the cops and they did a welfare check at his house.

So, as I was growing my spine.  I decided to change the topic, every time he brought it up.  If he confronted me I'd say, "Well you're still alive." and move on.

Then another girlfriend broke up with him (let's see...how many loves of his life did he lose in a year?)  He went over to her house and threatened to kill himself in front of her if she didn't stay with him.  Of course she called the cops and guess what?  In some places that is legally considered domestic violence.  So he spent the night in jail.  The girl did press charges, he was found mentally incompetent and he was held for inpatient treatment.  I know that sounds terrible, but this was really the best thing for him.

He called up a co-worker when in jail asking for bail and to vouch for his sanity.  The co-worker said that there was no way he could spring for bail.  Afterwards co-worker was telling us, "My regret about this is that I was talking to him when all potential weapons had been removed.  I could have told him the truth about his berry cobbler and faux beatnik hats not worried about driving him to suicide!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: bloo on November 30, 2012, 01:42:45 PM
PA - ness nearly got DH killed the other night!

I was keeping the baby (18 mos).  I was late getting home with her, and she was sick.  Not really ill, just not feeling well.  So, I'm trying desparately to get her to eat so I can bathe her and get her into bed.  And it's already getting late.

So, I tried to feed her several things and she wouldn't eat.  I finally opened a can of peaches and got her to eat a few of those.  I had left the can on the counter.  DH comes home from a relaxing evening of NOT keeping a sick 18 MO, and says, oh, are you saving this can for some reason?

My reply is not e-hell approved.

No offense intended, but what about your husband's question was PA?  Was there something in his tone of voice?

If I saw an empty can on the counter, I'd probably ask the exact same thing.  If she was saving it, I'd leave it alone.  If she wasn't saving it, I'd toss it in the recycle bin for her.

Having been on the receiving end of comments like that myself, I'm going to guess it was the tone, or the implied notion of "Why didn't you clean this up immediately?"

I have taken to responding to similar comments with "Yes, and I'll deal with it when I have time" or "No, could you please put it away?"  In short, answering the literal question, not the implied comment.

Posting to agree with Lilfox. The tone probably implied anything from, "Why didn't you clean this up immediately?" to "You're so lazy." That's likely what almost got him killed. Also, Goldilocks might have the type of DH that doesn't do as much 'hands-on' with the kids (whether it just be when they're sick or all the childcare) and he could be clueless to how a sick baby might mean some things are in disarray.

My MIL used to talk all the time about how she HAD to work while sick (flu, migraine, strep). I believe her because I've actually seen it because when she said she had a migraine, my DH convinced me and his lazy stepdad to clean the house to MIL's standards so she could rest. She, as I expected, cleaned right along with us - completely ticking off my and her DH's (we were living with them for a couple months while we found a place to live). I wasn't mad because I figured she'd do that anyway.

So I came to understand how my DH was puzzled as to how I couldn't function with a migraine or flu and such. He'd seen his mom do it his whole life. My DH wouldn't have commented on an open peach can left on the counter (doesn't affect him) but he would wonder where lunch or dinner was while I or one of the kids was in the throes of a fever. In the 20+ years we've been married, he has advanced to at least buying frozen food for himself and the kids and picking up soup for me. And since our kids are older they cook and take care of me. It's not like I'm chronically ill, but when it happens at least I don't have to be stressed by someone else's clueless or PA behavior.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: bloo on November 30, 2012, 01:51:43 PM
Along the lines of fishing for compliments and threatening to die...(Warning: This is something that is only funny if you have been around PA people enough to have some black humor about it.)

I had a work friend who was always saying "No one loves me.  No one would miss me if I killed myself."  Of course we would reassure him that we loved him and would miss him very much.  And it was things like, "I made berry cobbler, it's no good.  Here, try some and tell me if I should kill myself."  or "I'm just have no fashion sense.  I should kill myself." or "I'm no good at my job, I wonder if the boss would be happy if I killed myself."  It also turned into begging for favors.  "No one will ever do X for me.  I might as well kill myself."

So we were always complimenting him on his "talents" covering up for his terrible work and offering to give him rides, etc.  Because we figured if we could just support him through his "rough patch" he would be fine, right?

After six months of knowing him, this got very, very old.  Like when his girlfriend broke up with him and he left a voicemail on my (work) answering machine saying, "I need to talk to someone or I'm going to kill myself" and of course since he left it at 6:00 at night I didn't get it until the next day.  He didn't show up for work the next day.  Oh, and when he came in two days later, he wanted to see who was "sad."  Of course the boss didn't want to fire him because she didn't want his death on her hands.  He was ticked off at me because I called the cops and they did a welfare check at his house.

So, as I was growing my spine.  I decided to change the topic, every time he brought it up.  If he confronted me I'd say, "Well you're still alive." and move on.

Then another girlfriend broke up with him (let's see...how many loves of his life did he lose in a year?)  He went over to her house and threatened to kill himself in front of her if she didn't stay with him.  Of course she called the cops and guess what?  In some places that is legally considered domestic violence.  So he spent the night in jail.  The girl did press charges, he was found mentally incompetent and he was held for inpatient treatment.  I know that sounds terrible, but this was really the best thing for him.

He called up a co-worker when in jail asking for bail and to vouch for his sanity.  The co-worker said that there was no way he could spring for bail.  Afterwards co-worker was telling us, "My regret about this is that I was talking to him when all potential weapons had been removed.  I could have told him the truth about his berry cobbler and faux beatnik hats not worried about driving him to suicide!"

The last paragraph was funny but I have a question about the bolded. Did he bring a weapon with him? If not, was he planning on strangling himself to death or banging his head against her sidewalk, right in front of her? If he actually brought a weapon that is even scarier as all get out and I'm glad he was arrested. I'm guessing he didn't because you mentioned that making the threat was considered domestic violence.

I've told my kids if someone threatens suicide, even in a joking way, that they should show sympathy but let the person know that a second threat will mean a call to the police. It's a shame your office was held hostage by all his threats.  
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Virg on November 30, 2012, 02:05:58 PM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

My uncle.  Only in his case, it's the fridge.

Ooh, I'd be really mad too if one of my guests ate my fridge, especially without asking first.

Virg
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on November 30, 2012, 02:39:35 PM

Then another girlfriend broke up with him (let's see...how many loves of his life did he lose in a year?)  He went over to her house and threatened to kill himself in front of her if she didn't stay with him.  Of course she called the cops and guess what?  In some places that is legally considered domestic violence.  So he spent the night in jail.  The girl did press charges, he was found mentally incompetent and he was held for inpatient treatment.  I know that sounds terrible, but this was really the best thing for him.

He called up a co-worker when in jail asking for bail and to vouch for his sanity.  The co-worker said that there was no way he could spring for bail.  Afterwards co-worker was telling us, "My regret about this is that I was talking to him when all potential weapons had been removed.  I could have told him the truth about his berry cobbler and faux beatnik hats not worried about driving him to suicide!"

The last paragraph was funny but I have a question about the bolded. Did he bring a weapon with him? If not, was he planning on strangling himself to death or banging his head against her sidewalk, right in front of her? If he actually brought a weapon that is even scarier as all get out and I'm glad he was arrested. I'm guessing he didn't because you mentioned that making the threat was considered domestic violence.

I've told my kids if someone threatens suicide, even in a joking way, that they should show sympathy but let the person know that a second threat will mean a call to the police. It's a shame your office was held hostage by all his threats.

I don't have that much detail.  Keep in mind, what I know was from what my other co-worker passed on.  (He was friends with the girlfriend in question as well.)  I didn't get the whole blow-by-blow.  I do know now that any credible threats of violence against property or loved ones is against the law.  In some places this includes if the threatener is the loved one in question.

Not that I want to turn this into a discussion about suicide safety but what you are telling your kids is wise.  I do not regret arranging the welfare check even though it was not necessary.  The threats around me decreased measurably after that.


Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

My uncle.  Only in his case, it's the fridge.

Ooh, I'd be really mad too if one of my guests ate my fridge, especially without asking first.

Virg

My relatives too.  Including my parents which is very odd because we weren't allowed to eat out of our own fridge when we were kids.  Not that they didn't feed us.  But we were not allowed to open the fridge and eat anything because she was afraid we'd eat the leftovers she was saving for another meal.  Even after thanksgiving she would take apart the turkey and plan meals of leftovers with the meat - put some aside for pot pie, some for turkey salad, etc.  I was flabbergasted when I visited a friend's house for Thanksgiving and she just grabbed some to make us sandwiches.  I thought that her mother must believe in red carpet hospitality.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: whatsanenigma on November 30, 2012, 02:40:54 PM
Who on earth goes through someone else's cupboards and eats their chocolate without permission?   I'd blow a gasket.

My uncle.  Only in his case, it's the fridge.

Ooh, I'd be really mad too if one of my guests ate my fridge, especially without asking first.

Virg

I would be mad about that too.  It would be so rude to leave them sitting there while I ran out and bought a new one, but equally rude to let the food that was in it spoil and then let my non-rude guests get food poisoning.  Talk about a rock and a hard place, wow.  And then there would probably be melted ice all over the floor, so somebody (probably me) would slip and fall, and of course a trip to the local ER puts a damper on any holiday.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Miss Misery on November 30, 2012, 02:57:09 PM
I had one at work today.

Part of my job is to post ads online and make sure they go live on Thursdays. This afternoon I got an email from the person who books the ads: "Just curious where [ad number] is and when it will go online?"

Basically implying that I didn't do my job and the ad didn't go up when it was supposed to.

I found it online in about a minute.  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on November 30, 2012, 04:05:25 PM
The food stuff in the pantry reminded me of a guy DH and I stupidly allowed to stay with us in our 1br apartment when we were first married.  I was pregnant at the time, around 6-7 months along and still getting wickedly ill if I didn't continously drink water and have small snacks all day. 

This guy however was a night owl and I can't tell you how many times I woke up in the morning to find food gone.  I don't mean the last of the peanut butter, I mean a whole jar and a whole loaf of bread.   I demanded $ for it and as he was walking out the door when I kicked him out he handed me $9 and said that was "all he had" yeah, all he had that wasn't spent on meth.  Naive DH and I had let us stay with us when he gave us this sob story of "I need to get away from the other guys in the barracks so I won't be influenced to keep doing the drugs!!"  It didn't take me long to realize he was still using, thanks to a friend who was also our next door neighbor.   But DH, who likes to believe the best in everybody despite evidence to the contrary and a jury, denied it and was so sure we could help the guy. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: goldilocks on November 30, 2012, 04:12:28 PM
PA - ness nearly got DH killed the other night!

I was keeping the baby (18 mos).  I was late getting home with her, and she was sick.  Not really ill, just not feeling well.  So, I'm trying desparately to get her to eat so I can bathe her and get her into bed.  And it's already getting late.

So, I tried to feed her several things and she wouldn't eat.  I finally opened a can of peaches and got her to eat a few of those.  I had left the can on the counter.  DH comes home from a relaxing evening of NOT keeping a sick 18 MO, and says, oh, are you saving this can for some reason?

My reply is not e-hell approved.

No offense intended, but what about your husband's question was PA?  Was there something in his tone of voice?

If I saw an empty can on the counter, I'd probably ask the exact same thing.  If she was saving it, I'd leave it alone.  If she wasn't saving it, I'd toss it in the recycle bin for her.

Having been on the receiving end of comments like that myself, I'm going to guess it was the tone, or the implied notion of "Why didn't you clean this up immediately?"

I have taken to responding to similar comments with "Yes, and I'll deal with it when I have time" or "No, could you please put it away?"  In short, answering the literal question, not the implied comment.

Posting to agree with Lilfox. The tone probably implied anything from, "Why didn't you clean this up immediately?" to "You're so lazy." That's likely what almost got him killed. Also, Goldilocks might have the type of DH that doesn't do as much 'hands-on' with the kids (whether it just be when they're sick or all the childcare) and he could be clueless to how a sick baby might mean some things are in disarray.

My MIL used to talk all the time about how she HAD to work while sick (flu, migraine, strep). I believe her because I've actually seen it because when she said she had a migraine, my DH convinced me and his lazy stepdad to clean the house to MIL's standards so she could rest. She, as I expected, cleaned right along with us - completely ticking off my and her DH's (we were living with them for a couple months while we found a place to live). I wasn't mad because I figured she'd do that anyway.

So I came to understand how my DH was puzzled as to how I couldn't function with a migraine or flu and such. He'd seen his mom do it his whole life. My DH wouldn't have commented on an open peach can left on the counter (doesn't affect him) but he would wonder where lunch or dinner was while I or one of the kids was in the throes of a fever. In the 20+ years we've been married, he has advanced to at least buying frozen food for himself and the kids and picking up soup for me. And since our kids are older they cook and take care of me. It's not like I'm chronically ill, but when it happens at least I don't have to be stressed by someone else's clueless or PA behavior.


It was his tone.  I don't normally leave empty cans on the counter, I was quite overwhelmed.  DH is actually good with the kids.  The baby I'm referring to was our grandchild.  Normally she'll eat anything, loves to take a bath, and is ready for bed by 8.   This particular night she wouldnt eat, screamed at the bath, and refused to go to bed.  I was quite out of my element.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: DottyG on November 30, 2012, 05:17:32 PM
snowflake, I think you might want to read Virg's post again. ;)  By your response, I think you might have skipped over the meaning!

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: jane7166 on December 01, 2012, 03:50:44 PM


Posting to agree with Lilfox. The tone probably implied anything from, "Why didn't you clean this up immediately?" to "You're so lazy." That's likely what almost got him killed. Also, Goldilocks might have the type of DH that doesn't do as much 'hands-on' with the kids (whether it just be when they're sick or all the childcare) and he could be clueless to how a sick baby might mean some things are in disarray.

My MIL used to talk all the time about how she HAD to work while sick (flu, migraine, strep). I believe her because I've actually seen it because when she said she had a migraine, my DH convinced me and his lazy stepdad to clean the house to MIL's standards so she could rest. She, as I expected, cleaned right along with us - completely ticking off my and her DH's (we were living with them for a couple months while we found a place to live). I wasn't mad because I figured she'd do that anyway.

So I came to understand how my DH was puzzled as to how I couldn't function with a migraine or flu and such. He'd seen his mom do it his whole life. My DH wouldn't have commented on an open peach can left on the counter (doesn't affect him) but he would wonder where lunch or dinner was while I or one of the kids was in the throes of a fever. In the 20+ years we've been married, he has advanced to at least buying frozen food for himself and the kids and picking up soup for me. And since our kids are older they cook and take care of me. It's not like I'm chronically ill, but when it happens at least I don't have to be stressed by someone else's clueless or PA behavior.

Sounds like MIL didn't have true migraines or the real flu.  My DH knows what a real migraine can look like because he's seen me have hundreds. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 01, 2012, 04:44:06 PM
That reminds me a bit of my first husband.  One of his reasons for divorcing me after only four months of marriage was that I didn't keep everything spotless like his mother did.  Never mind that she was a full time housewife and I had a full time job OUTSIDE the home. 

Topic ... I have a coworker who's a very nice guy, but his PA tendencies drive me batty.  He has a habit of suddenly announcing something from his cubicle, obviously waiting for someone (usually me) to take up the conversational gauntlet, and gets ticked off if no one replies.   Um, we're trying to work, dude.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Iris on December 01, 2012, 05:36:59 PM
That reminds me a bit of my first husband.  One of his reasons for divorcing me after only four months of marriage was that I didn't keep everything spotless like his mother did.  Never mind that she was a full time housewife and I had a full time job OUTSIDE the home. 

Topic ... I have a coworker who's a very nice guy, but his PA tendencies drive me batty.  He has a habit of suddenly announcing something from his cubicle, obviously waiting for someone (usually me) to take up the conversational gauntlet, and gets ticked off if no one replies.   Um, we're trying to work, dude.

On the bolded: The words "Do you have a broken arm?" spring to mind...congratulations on losing THAT nightmare...

On the second: FIL does this. He will be reading a paper and just loudly pronounce "That's interesting" or start reading a section. The rest of us have slowly escalated how far we'll take it before someone (usually MIL) throws him the attention he is craving. Since he is behind his paper he can't see our evil grins.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Allyson on December 01, 2012, 08:04:10 PM

On the second: FIL does this. He will be reading a paper and just loudly pronounce "That's interesting" or start reading a section. The rest of us have slowly escalated how far we'll take it before someone (usually MIL) throws him the attention he is craving. Since he is behind his paper he can't see our evil grins.

This is one of my biggest irritations. I knew a guy who would constantly bring up a little-known fact, or a character from an obscure movie/book, specifically so you would ask him about it and he could then expound on his topic. I got into the habit of never ever asking.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 01, 2012, 08:36:53 PM
You work with Cliff Clavin?   :o
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: PastryGoddess on December 01, 2012, 08:39:06 PM

On the second: FIL does this. He will be reading a paper and just loudly pronounce "That's interesting" or start reading a section. The rest of us have slowly escalated how far we'll take it before someone (usually MIL) throws him the attention he is craving. Since he is behind his paper he can't see our evil grins.

This is one of my biggest irritations. I knew a guy who would constantly bring up a little-known fact, or a character from an obscure movie/book, specifically so you would ask him about it and he could then expound on his topic. I got into the habit of never ever asking.


Have you tried "that's nice"  or does that just make it worse
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on December 01, 2012, 08:58:22 PM

On the second: FIL does this. He will be reading a paper and just loudly pronounce "That's interesting" or start reading a section. The rest of us have slowly escalated how far we'll take it before someone (usually MIL) throws him the attention he is craving. Since he is behind his paper he can't see our evil grins.

This is one of my biggest irritations. I knew a guy who would constantly bring up a little-known fact, or a character from an obscure movie/book, specifically so you would ask him about it and he could then expound on his topic. I got into the habit of never ever asking.

My ex did this too! He'd say half a thought, just enough to intrigue but also confuse, and then stop--just to get people to ask for more! And if you didn't, he'd just keep saying cryptic things till someone bit.

And with the paper or with internet articles, he'd just launch into reading them at random times, even if I was busy, and if I (for example) said "hey, can you email me the link? I'm trying to write a story," he'd pout! It was the performance he craved.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Nikko-chan on December 01, 2012, 09:35:49 PM
Nothing to post, except to say that i am loving these stories.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: jane7166 on December 01, 2012, 10:17:36 PM
[quote author=Yvaine link=topic=123236.msg2840381#msg2840381 date

And with the paper or with internet articles, he'd just launch into reading them at random times, even if I was busy, and if I (for example) said "hey, can you email me the link? I'm trying to write a story," he'd pout! It was the performance he craved.
[/quote]

Just like my mother.  I would be reading the newspaper and she would be reading a different section and she would just start reading an article, word for word, whether I was interested or not.  And if I said anything like I want to read this section, thanks, she would get all huffy.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Iris on December 02, 2012, 01:38:23 AM
[quote author=Yvaine link=topic=123236.msg2840381#msg2840381 date

And with the paper or with internet articles, he'd just launch into reading them at random times, even if I was busy, and if I (for example) said "hey, can you email me the link? I'm trying to write a story," he'd pout! It was the performance he craved.

Just like my mother.  I would be reading the newspaper and she would be reading a different section and she would just start reading an article, word for word, whether I was interested or not.  And if I said anything like I want to read this section, thanks, she would get all huffy.
[/quote]

So FIL is not the only one! DH does it occasionally too, but has a bit more of a sense of humour and awareness of it, so if I ostentatiously say "I'm sorry, was my book interrupting your random thought?" he'll just grin and drop it. I think MIL humours FIL because it's easier than dealing with the huffs  ::) He is a good man, really, but has that small child mentality that if he is finding something interesting then so will everyone else, and they'll find it interesting right NOW!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: hermanne on December 02, 2012, 05:59:56 AM
Nothing to post, except to say that i am loving these stories.

Me too!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: FauxFoodist on December 02, 2012, 08:36:36 AM
So I would take the whole story of the movie day with a grain of salt. I'm not saying it didn't happen at all, but probably not quite so dramatically.

I could see this happening this dramatically because *my* mom tried to do a version of this to my sister and me (and Mom really isn't a mean person so I think this situation was, actually, unintentional).

Mom came up to YS and me and said, "Hey, let's go see a movie later; that would be fun!"  YS and I got excited because, well, our family never went to the movies at that point (not because we couldn't afford it, I think, but because we weren't small children anymore so piling us all into one vehicle to go to the drive-ins wasn't going to work anymore and my parents NEVER took us to a regular movie theater).  Anyway, YS never did the work for anything so I took it upon myself to peruse the movie listings and figure out which movie we wanted to see and when (and I did this all in front of Mom).  YS and I finally determined we wanted to see Back to the Future, and I told Mom.  As it got later and later, I said, "Hey, Mom, when are we going to the movies?" and Mom replies, "Oh, I don't feel like going now."    >:(

I.  WAS.  FURIOUS.  I thought that was the meanest thing ever.  I couldn't believe she'd jerk our chains around like that....and my 14-15 year old self let Mom have it.  Yup, Mom got a "severe" tongue-lashing for suggesting something fun for us to go do with her and letting us happily go about planning for it only to never have had any intention of executing the plan.  Oh, I was so angry with her.

Anyway, I guess my words really got through because, a few minutes later, Mom changed her mind and took us to see the movie (like I said, I don't think she meant to do something so mean; I really think she changed her mind and was just super clueless how mean it was to do that).
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Allyson on December 02, 2012, 11:36:45 AM
When my brother and I were kids, I remember a couple of times, usually when driving, when we would be acting annoying in some way or other, probably by being too loud. My dad would say 'Well, I was *going* to take you guys to do something nice, but now you've acted like this, so it's not happening.' Of course we'd freak out until he told us he never meant to do it anyway. All that really taught us was not to trust Dad, though. As we got older, my response to things like that would be more and more indifferent.

When I was working at a place with a tip jar, an impossible-to-please customer once said, 'Well, I was going to tip you, but now I'm not because of Thing X.'  I think I said something like, 'that's no problem' which further enraged him'.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Kaypeep on December 02, 2012, 12:23:41 PM
My mom was infamous for starting something and never finishing, but leaving "stuff" out from whatever it is that she started.  This included housekeeping. She would take out the vacuum and leave it out forcing us to walk around it.  Now, if any of US left something out she would yell until we put it away.  So one day after leaving the vacuum out for a while she starts screaming at us kids about how we kept walking over and around the vaccum but how none of us could bother to put it away.  My brother then said "Why do WE have to put it away?  YOU took it out.  If one of us took it out to vacuum you'd expect us to put it away. So why should we be expected to put away something YOU took out?"  Mom just stood there silent and then stormed out of the house.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 02, 2012, 04:33:51 PM
SoCalVal, my mum sometimes did that to me.  She'd announce in the morning that she was going to take me somewhere that I loved to go, like the public pool.   Then, in the afternoon, I'd ask when we were leaving, and she'd look miserable and say "Oh - do you REALLY want to go?".  The implication being, of course, that if I said "Yes", I'D be the mean one for dragging my poor mother somewhere she didn't want to be.   I always sullenly said "No", which nicely let her off the hook - after all, if it had been that important to me, surely I would have said "yes".

Many years later, when I had kids of my own, she told me solemnly "it's so important to always keep the promises that you make to your children". I just inwardly rolled my eyes and said nothing.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 02, 2012, 06:16:47 PM
My bff sort of does this, though it makes me laugh, and it usually happens when we're on the phone.

N: So and so ticks me off so MUCH, he did something today that was just so RUDE!!
Me: Oh?
N: Don't get me started, I don't want to get into it!
Me: Okay, I won't.
N: I'm really not in the mood to go over it.
Me: Okay.
N: Oh fine, this is what happened!

Mind you, she laughs when she says the last line.  It's not so much PA for her, and the funny thing is that she ALWAYS ends up telling me what happens one way or another so even if I am very curious and want to hear the story, I don't bother begging her to tell me cause I know it'll come out eventually.  She knows it too, and it's kind of become a joke with us. 

My dad used to expect women to keep a house as immaculate as a model home.  I'd always get comments if my house was less than perfect when I worked 40 hours and the first two boys were rather young.   And at the time DH rarely lifted a finger to help clean and I was not blessed with the best organizational skills.  I could be cleaning for 3 hours and if you came two hours after that, you'd never know it. 

"You have dirt on your baseboards! Your windows aren't wiped" Oh dear, just call CPS on me now. Never mind the kids could eat off the floor and their toys are picked up but for the few they're playing with.  But the baseboards and windows have a bit of dirt!  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: FoxPaws on December 02, 2012, 07:02:48 PM
"You have dirt on your baseboards! Your windows aren't wiped" Oh dear, just call CPS on me now. Never mind the kids could eat off the floor and their toys are picked up but for the few they're playing with.  But the baseboards and windows have a bit of dirt!  ::)
This was your cue to hand him a rag and a bottle of 409.   ;) >:D 8)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 02, 2012, 07:08:27 PM
Would if not for the fact that I didn't want him to stick around, and knowing him he'd do it while complaining about how much important work he could be doing and showing me how to clean them.  My mother did this too.   She would pick up a rag and 409 but it wouldn't be long before I'd take it away saying "I got it, thanks" and letting her know she was welcome to go attend to her own to-do list...at home.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Bluenomi on December 02, 2012, 07:13:25 PM
I have to deal with PA clients at work all the time and they don't like it when I don't fall for it  >:D

We have a limited supply of audio visual equpiment which books out early on busy weeks. A client rings up, askes for something and I give them the bad news that we don't have anything left. Out come the comments 'Oh no, what will my boss (important person) do now?', 'what a disaster, the event will be ruinied', 'are you sure you don't have anything left for me?', 'But it is for really important person, you can't let me tell them I can't have it, I'll get in trouble!' etc, etc. They great really annoyed when I don't magically find them someting after they pout. I think I've had every PA trick in the book thrown at me and it just doesn't work.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: FoxPaws on December 02, 2012, 07:19:29 PM
^ I get this at my job, too. I love how people think if they just explain their dire circumstances one more time, the clock will slow down, supplies will magically appear, and equipment will begin performing tasks it was never designed to do.  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: platypus109 on December 02, 2012, 07:29:59 PM
In college I had a "friend" that loved to be passive aggressive.  Once PA demanded I go with her to a very expensive restaurant in Los Angeles that I wasn't interested in with food I generally don't like.  I was naive and because she implied she would pay for my meal, I tagged along for the experience. 

I learned the importance of clear plans that night when PA told me: a) she wasn't going to pay for my meal because she'd decided she wanted to sit in the restaurant but didn't want to eat and b) I owed her gas money for the ride from our college to the restaurant.  However, she made a big fuss about encouraging me to get whatever I wanted.    PA ended up sulking for the rest of the night when I ordered the only thing I could afford, a small side salad. She claimed I'd embarrassed her by not ordering a full meal.

Another time we were enrolled in the same class, she'd taken many classes from this professor and claimed he was one of the hardest she'd ever had.  It was my first time with this professor and my first time taking a class in this subject area.  During that particular session, the professor had used my paper as an example of a "superior academic paper" and had rather gone on about the quality of my writing; the PA friend received a D on the same assignment.  As we were leaving I mentioned I had to run to get to my job on campus.  She sighed in that big PA way and said she was glad her parents loved her enough to pay for everything so she could focus on her studies.  As if my parents were evil villains for "making" me work in college  ::)

Ultimately, the only reason why I remained friends with PA is because she'd lived on the same hall with my BFF in our freshman year and the BFF had a pretty stubborn "loyalty code" at the time.   Over the four years of college, the BFF and I'd managed to pull away a bit using various techniques of the semi-direct cut. Unfortunately, we never could quite break away.
   
After we graduated from college PA called me a few times but I was just starting graduate school, and since I've never liked talking on the phone, we didn't spend a long time chatting.  Then, in the fall following our graduation, she called me and as soon as I answered the phone launched into some diatribe about the drama in her life. I managed to extract myself enough to just about hang up when she started in on how I didn't call her.  After a few more minutes of that PA finally stopped and said she wouldn't call me again unless I called her first.  Apparently she said something similar to the BFF around the same time. 

It's been 15 years and counting, I sure hope she didn't wait by the phone for my call  ;)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: PeterM on December 02, 2012, 07:54:39 PM
^ I get this at my job, too. I love how people think if they just explain their dire circumstances one more time, the clock will slow down, supplies will magically appear, and equipment will begin performing tasks it was never designed to do.  ::)

We get this at the library, too, generally about fines or fees. The people who state outright that they've had a tough time and ask for leniency may or may not get it, depending on circumstances and policies. The people who are clearly distressed but determined to somehow get themselves out of the situation they and/or their circumstances created may or may not be offered a lenient deal, again depending. The people who throw out loud, exaggerated sighs along with comments to no one in particular about how unfair this is, or how it's not their fault, or something similar, they get nothing. Noth. Ing.

I actually had a complaint about me from one patron who does that a lot. He told my supervisor that I had been rude and disrespectful to him. Based on the timing, as best I can tell this was because I didn't drop everything else I was doing when he came in so I could cater to his every need before he even expressed it. It might've also been because when he complained that his holds weren't on the shelf I told him to look on the next shelf down. We put them out alphabetically by last name, see, so if it appears that the M-s end at, say, Miller, maybe you should look on the next shelf down before you tell me that we can't do our jobs right. I swear to Dog I kept my voice as neutral and non-judgmental as possible when telling him to check the next shelf down, but there's only so much you can do in a situation like that.

In any case, my supervisor knows this guy, too, so she basically told me that if he was complaining about me I must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ica171 on December 02, 2012, 08:19:06 PM
This thread has helped me decide how I'm going to deal with my mom the next time she tries this stuff. I have a 9 month old daughter, and ever since she was about 4-5 months old, she's cried whenever my mom walks into the room. No one knows why, she just does. Now, when my mom does the "woe is me, why don't you love me, you'll have to come stay at my house and I'll make you love me" talk to DD, I ignore her. She knows that's not going to happen and I just don't even feel like it needs to be addressed. But one day a few months ago as she was leaving my house, she held DD, who started crying. I said jokingly, "Wow, what did you do to her?" She started in on "How could you say I'd do something to that little girl, I'd never do anything to hurt her, I love her," etc etc. The first few times I reassured her and said "I know, I know, it was a joke, she's just a baby, she just needs time," on and on.

Then she brought it up at Thanksgiving. I said "You know that was a joke, right?" She said "Yes" and then carried on with her woe is me speech. So next time she says "You said I did something to DD!" I'm just going to say "Yep" and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 02, 2012, 08:27:09 PM
The college PA reminded me of someone I knew who lived in the same suite as I in my freshman and sophomore years.  (our dorm had 4 suites on each floor, with each suit having 5 rooms that shared one bathroom.   

This girl had a lot of bitterness and was just generally unpleasant.  She was a know it all, superior, and she was convinced that the only reason guys weren't interested her was because she was overweight. Nope, not really.  It was her attitude, completely.  She also liked to put men down...then wonder why they weren't interested.

She'd say "Men don't like me, they think I'm too fat!" Expecting of course for people to say "oh you're not too fat, they just don't know what they're missing!" I was too nice at the time to come out and say "Nope, there are plenty of women on campus your size who have boyfriends. It's your attitude." No one answered and of course that meant she'd just go on and on.   ::)

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 02, 2012, 08:27:30 PM
My bff sort of does this, though it makes me laugh, and it usually happens when we're on the phone.

N: So and so ticks me off so MUCH, he did something today that was just so RUDE!!
Me: Oh?
N: Don't get me started, I don't want to get into it!
Me: Okay, I won't.
N: I'm really not in the mood to go over it.
Me: Okay.
N: Oh fine, this is what happened!

That reminds me of a time when DH's dramatic friend called to speak to him, but DH wasn't home, so he decided to talk to me. I got to hear all about how his wife was leaving him again and he really couldn't blame her, it was all his fault, he'd done something bad - really bad! He paused dramatically and said "I don't want to get into the details..." which I guess was my cue to beg for the gossip? He was stunned silent when I said "I didn't ask for any."  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: rose red on December 02, 2012, 09:29:24 PM
The movie story and other posters' similar stories remind me of my sister.  She would make plans causing me to look forward to them.  When the day comes she would frequently be too tired or just don't feel like it, but she won't just say that and end it.  Oh, no.  It's always followed by:

*sigh* we'll still go if you want to *sigh
*sigh* I'm so tired but I'll do it for you *sigh*

...and other wonderful sayings from the book of PA cliches.  Yeah.  Like that's going to an enjoyable activity.  I really want to spend time with someone with that attitude.  I've learned not to count on any of her plans.  If they happen, great.  If not, then I won't have that crushed disappointed feeling.

eta: since the topic is giving PA people what they want, I now just say OK and go on with my life.  I used to be sad and anxious and call her on always breaking plans, which I think made her feel some strange kind of power and control over me. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: KB on December 02, 2012, 09:39:16 PM
This thread has helped me decide how I'm going to deal with my mom the next time she tries this stuff. I have a 9 month old daughter, and ever since she was about 4-5 months old, she's cried whenever my mom walks into the room. No one knows why, she just does.

I know you weren't asking for solutions, but I wonder if your mother is very loud, or has a particularly piercing voice, or holds DD in a way that makes her uncomfortable or something. I was exactly the same way with my father's mother, who had an incredibly loud voice while Mum and Dad were always relatively quiet around me. She always burst into a room, rather than just entering it, and so I must have learned the sound of her arrival, which always made me cry. It might be worth looking for similar signs, just so that you know about them, even if you can't get your mother to change her ways.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: CrochetFanatic on December 02, 2012, 09:45:49 PM
It's possible that DD might not even have a reason for it.  I remember being extremely young and disliking an elderly neighbor for no other reason than the fact that she smelled like cabbage...It wasn't like the poor lady could really help it, but a three-year-old doesn't know that.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: kherbert05 on December 02, 2012, 10:26:56 PM
"You have dirt on your baseboards! Your windows aren't wiped" Oh dear, just call CPS on me now. Never mind the kids could eat off the floor and their toys are picked up but for the few they're playing with.  But the baseboards and windows have a bit of dirt!  ::)
This was your cue to hand him a rag and a bottle of 409.   ;) >:D 8)
Mom did exactly that with my Uncle one time. We had these floor to ceiling windows that were kept spotless - unless my 1st cousins once removed were over. They were small and touched things. Uncle didn't realize how stressed mom was one day. He made a joke about the windows being dirty - mom handed him paper towels and windex  and told him to clean up after his grandchildren.  Uncle cleaned the windows and stopped making jokes about them.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ica171 on December 02, 2012, 11:45:45 PM
This thread has helped me decide how I'm going to deal with my mom the next time she tries this stuff. I have a 9 month old daughter, and ever since she was about 4-5 months old, she's cried whenever my mom walks into the room. No one knows why, she just does.

I know you weren't asking for solutions, but I wonder if your mother is very loud, or has a particularly piercing voice, or holds DD in a way that makes her uncomfortable or something. I was exactly the same way with my father's mother, who had an incredibly loud voice while Mum and Dad were always relatively quiet around me. She always burst into a room, rather than just entering it, and so I must have learned the sound of her arrival, which always made me cry. It might be worth looking for similar signs, just so that you know about them, even if you can't get your mother to change her ways.

She doesn't, but she does smoke and wears perfume. I've wondered if DD is reacting to either of those smells, although she doesn't always smell like either or both. It could just be DD's age; she's a total Mama's girl and will cry even with DH sometimes. But that started at the typical separation anxiety age, just a month or so ago. It's been since she was 4-5 months old with my mom. It's getting a little bit better, but I just have a feeling I'll be hearing about that joke (one she has made to me when any of my kids were crying with me) for a long time.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on December 03, 2012, 06:22:47 AM
SoCalVal, my mum sometimes did that to me.  She'd announce in the morning that she was going to take me somewhere that I loved to go, like the public pool.   Then, in the afternoon, I'd ask when we were leaving, and she'd look miserable and say "Oh - do you REALLY want to go?".  The implication being, of course, that if I said "Yes", I'D be the mean one for dragging my poor mother somewhere she didn't want to be.   I always sullenly said "No", which nicely let her off the hook - after all, if it had been that important to me, surely I would have said "yes".

Many years later, when I had kids of my own, she told me solemnly "it's so important to always keep the promises that you make to your children". I just inwardly rolled my eyes and said nothing.

My friend Terri says her mom did this to her a lot growing up.   And then she would want credit for WANTING to take Terri somewhere nice.  It wasn't her fault that she didn't feel well enough to follow through!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 03, 2012, 06:24:17 AM
My almost 13 month old is having that separation anxiety too.  He's alright so long as his brothers and DH are with him.  He's a friendly little guy and will reach out to hug other people, but after a few minutes he reaches out for me. 

At the beginning of summer our neighbors invited us to a bbq and horseshoes tournament at their house.  A friend of the neighbor was there and she liked Liam more than he liked her.  She'd hold him and he'd cry (once she kissed him and that was it, he wanted Mama NOW) for the rest of the time we were there, she'd poke him saying "He doesn't liiiiiiike me! Fine, I won't talk to you *to the baby* at all!" At one point I was tempted to say "Promise?"  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Emmy on December 03, 2012, 07:30:49 AM
My comments in red. 

In college I had a "friend" that loved to be passive aggressive.  Once PA demanded I go with her to a very expensive restaurant in Los Angeles that I wasn't interested in with food I generally don't like.  I was naive and because she implied she would pay for my meal, I tagged along for the experience. 

I learned the importance of clear plans that night when PA told me: a) she wasn't going to pay for my meal because she'd decided she wanted to sit in the restaurant but didn't want to eat and b) I owed her gas money for the ride from our college to the restaurant.  However, she made a big fuss about encouraging me to get whatever I wanted.    PA ended up sulking for the rest of the night when I ordered the only thing I could afford, a small side salad. She claimed I'd embarrassed her by not ordering a full meal.

So you 'embarrassed' PA when you ordered the salad, but she somehow wasn't embarrassed to go the restaurant and get no food at all.  I wonder what her point was in going to the restaurant.

Another time we were enrolled in the same class, she'd taken many classes from this professor and claimed he was one of the hardest she'd ever had.  It was my first time with this professor and my first time taking a class in this subject area.  During that particular session, the professor had used my paper as an example of a "superior academic paper" and had rather gone on about the quality of my writing; the PA friend received a D on the same assignment.  As we were leaving I mentioned I had to run to get to my job on campus.  She sighed in that big PA way and said she was glad her parents loved her enough to pay for everything so she could focus on her studies.  As if my parents were evil villains for "making" me work in college  ::)

Evil Emmy would have wanted to say it is good her parents didn't make her work because it was apparent she needed all that time to focus on her studies so she could (barely) pass.  I really wouldn't say that, although I would certainly think it.  It sounds like she is jealous of your good grade so she has to throw in something to make herself feel superior.  This 'friend' sounds like one of those people who it is always a good idea to be super busy when she calls.

Ultimately, the only reason why I remained friends with PA is because she'd lived on the same hall with my BFF in our freshman year and the BFF had a pretty stubborn "loyalty code" at the time.   Over the four years of college, the BFF and I'd managed to pull away a bit using various techniques of the semi-direct cut. Unfortunately, we never could quite break away.
   
After we graduated from college PA called me a few times but I was just starting graduate school, and since I've never liked talking on the phone, we didn't spend a long time chatting.  Then, in the fall following our graduation, she called me and as soon as I answered the phone launched into some diatribe about the drama in her life. I managed to extract myself enough to just about hang up when she started in on how I didn't call her.  After a few more minutes of that PA finally stopped and said she wouldn't call me again unless I called her first.  Apparently she said something similar to the BFF around the same time. 

It's been 15 years and counting, I sure hope she didn't wait by the phone for my call  ;)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: stitchygreyanonymouse on December 03, 2012, 09:56:29 AM
My SOs mom is the queen of PA and guilt trips. Not as much with us, because he calls her out on them and then we’ll leave. It seems 7yo nephew is either oblivious or on to her (or likely a bit of both) for the PA stuff.

Yesterday’s response to her trying to convince him he needed to do some craft project for the holidays because she was feeling too unwell to do it herself was perfect:

QueenOfPA: "Fine, we’ll just work on it this week in between your homework. We can do it sometime between Monday and Friday and don’t forget, you have homework too." [Emphasis hers]
Nephew: "Okay!"
QueenOfPA: *Sputtering about how clearly she was saying they didn’t have time to do it during the week*

Nephew won that round though.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: siamesecat2965 on December 03, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I have to deal with PA clients at work all the time and they don't like it when I don't fall for it  >:D

We have a limited supply of audio visual equpiment which books out early on busy weeks. A client rings up, askes for something and I give them the bad news that we don't have anything left. Out come the comments 'Oh no, what will my boss (important person) do now?', 'what a disaster, the event will be ruinied', 'are you sure you don't have anything left for me?', 'But it is for really important person, you can't let me tell them I can't have it, I'll get in trouble!' etc, etc. They great really annoyed when I don't magically find them someting after they pout. I think I've had every PA trick in the book thrown at me and it just doesn't work.

I get this all the time at my PT job (retail) usually involving someone trying to return something past the 90 day deadline, or trying to get some sort of discount where none is available. 

I had a customer the other night try and pull the woe is me discount thing. She had put some sale items on hold, and at the time, they were an additional 40% off. But that promo is now over. Also, we technically are only supposed to hold sale items until the end of the day, although if its a customer we know, and know they will be back, we'll do it for longer.  Customer had put a number of items on hold maybe a week ago, while the extra % was still on. But when she came in, that promo was over, and they were "as marked" she bemoaned the fact, and went on about how she had ONLY put them on hold since it was an extra % off. 

Well, sorry, but a. if it was that important you got the extra off, you should have come in, or at the very least, which we can also do, called and paid for them on the phone and b. i am not losing my job to give you a discount that doesn't exist or that you are not entitled to.

I've gotten very good at not JADE-ing, and simply telling them I'm sorry I can't do what you want, or comiserating about their "bad luck" (i.e. not purchasing when it was a better deal) Then I simply stop talking.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: LazyDaisy on December 03, 2012, 12:11:44 PM
The movie story and other posters' similar stories remind me of my sister.  She would make plans causing me to look forward to them.  When the day comes she would frequently be too tired or just don't feel like it, but she won't just say that and end it.  Oh, no.  It's always followed by:

*sigh* we'll still go if you want to *sigh
*sigh* I'm so tired but I'll do it for you *sigh*

...and other wonderful sayings from the book of PA cliches.  Yeah.  Like that's going to an enjoyable activity.  I really want to spend time with someone with that attitude.  I've learned not to count on any of her plans.  If they happen, great.  If not, then I won't have that crushed disappointed feeling.

eta: since the topic is giving PA people what they want, I now just say OK and go on with my life. I used to be sad and anxious and call her on always breaking plans, which I think made her feel some strange kind of power and control over me.

I had a friend that used to break plans with me all of the time. I felt held hostage to her whims until I decided that I could go on with the plans whether she was there or not. The turning point for me was a weekend trip to Vegas for her birthday. We'd been planning it together for 2 months and I had already taken the Friday off from work at a job where it was near impossible to get time off, ever. Two days before we are to go she "just doesn't feel right about it" and offers to reimburse me whatever cancellation fees I might have (the hotel room and day spa reservations were all on my credit card). I'd had it! But I didn't yell or try to shame her into going, I just calmly stated that I had been really looking forward to this and so I was still going and I'm sure that I could either cancel or transfer the extra spa reservation. The surprised look on her face was priceless. She liked being in control of the plans and by going without her, I took all of her power away completely. I started doing it for everything. She didn't show for the movie -- I'll let her know if it was good or not; cancel at the last minute for lunch at the trendy new restaurant she'd suggested -- I'll let her know how the food was. She pitched little fits, "How could I go without her?!? Why can't I just wait?!?" but she got better at following through on plans.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Nora on December 03, 2012, 02:39:05 PM
That's all kinds off brilliant!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on December 04, 2012, 10:20:28 AM
LazyDaisy, I'm glad you got freeof that, but it just hit me that your friend was denying herself all kinds of enjoyment for the thrill she got out of controlling you.  That is a sad commentary on her.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: LazyDaisy on December 04, 2012, 10:51:57 AM
She had good qualities too and the friendship survived this little bump. She had always had small control issues but I'm pretty flexible and go-with-the-flow so it worked for us -- until it got out of hand. She loves to make plans, all of the build-up excitement and imagining, but when it comes to the actual time to do it, reality is kind of a let down. She's a "grass is always greener on the other side" person. So she'd make plans, build them up in her mind, then panic because it might not be as she imagined and want to cancel so she wouldn't be disappointed and could continue to imagine it. It's controlling but not malicious -- she wasn't trying to hurt me but wasn't thinking beyond herself.

When I started doing things with or without her, she made following through more of a priority and that solved the problem without a big fight. Although she is still cancels occasionally, I pick my battles.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 04, 2012, 11:03:17 AM
The college PA reminded me of someone I knew who lived in the same suite as I in my freshman and sophomore years.  (our dorm had 4 suites on each floor, with each suit having 5 rooms that shared one bathroom.   

This girl had a lot of bitterness and was just generally unpleasant.  She was a know it all, superior, and she was convinced that the only reason guys weren't interested her was because she was overweight. Nope, not really.  It was her attitude, completely.  She also liked to put men down...then wonder why they weren't interested.

She'd say "Men don't like me, they think I'm too fat!" Expecting of course for people to say "oh you're not too fat, they just don't know what they're missing!" I was too nice at the time to come out and say "Nope, there are plenty of women on campus your size who have boyfriends. It's your attitude." No one answered and of course that meant she'd just go on and on.   ::)

I think maybe I knew her?  I had a friend like this in my dorms.  She was MAYBE a size 14, so not obese, just a little "fluffy."  Of course this was always a hint to invite her along on our dates.  Um, no.  Not going to happen.  But it still drove me nuts that she expected me to invite her to an activity that someone else had invited me to with the expectation of alone time.  Of course, she claimed my boyfriends were "cheap" if I ever paid for a date (Because apparently she didn't believe that I though that was fair that we take turns.)  So she assumed I'd invite her along AND they'd pay for her.  She also regularly would put down our dates to their faces and tell them why she wouldn't date them.  Yeah, with all that fishing for compliments and invitations she could sure dish-out dirt straight foward enough!

There was one time after a particularly annoying whine period when I said, "No, Eric thought you were cute.  But he decided not to ask you out because he thinks you're too catty."

Yeah, like I said I HAD a friend like that in my dorms.  Probably not my finest moment but she at least got to hear a compliment about herself. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 04, 2012, 12:07:32 PM
I don't know what the girl's size was, as I'm honestly an awful judge of sizes, but I think this girl would have been considered obese and just could be real snotty.She'd commiserate with you if you were single too, which I was for my first semester but then started dating in the spring and heard all sorts of comments from her about my choice of men.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 05, 2012, 10:51:58 AM
I think I've shared this before but it fits here too. 

A guy DH and I were friends with in college used to do this to his wife a lot.  One example I remember well, because he was such a jerk about it, was when we were trying to decide what kind of pizza we wanted and she was really in the mood for Pizza Hut.   

Friend: I'd like Pizza Hut, but I know how you feel about them. (he got fired)
Her STBX (HSTBX): No, if you want PH, we can get PH
Friend: Are you sure? I know you don't like going there after how they treated you.   (knowing his work ethic, he probably earned it)
HSTBX: No no, if that's what you want, we can have PH

Tired of the back and forth DH and I said "Pizza Hut it is!" and went to the closest one.

The whole time HSTBX sulked and whined that she would choose Pizza Hut when she knew how he felt about it. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Virg on December 05, 2012, 11:18:03 AM
Piratelvr1121, I think they both get a vote on this one.  Your friend's STBX was pouty and PA about it after the pizza was bought, but to be honest her initial sentence was also PA, because she knew how he felt about Pizza Hut but said it in such a way as to dump it on him to refuse, hoping that he'd capitulate (which he did).  She should have just said that she really wanted Pizza Hut and taken her lumps for it.  In this particular case I think HSTBX had a point that she should have known it would bother him, and if she was really worried about his feelings she'd have just not suggested it in the first place.

Virg
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 05, 2012, 11:46:00 AM
Speaking of restaurants, I remember when my grandmother was alive - she'd always deliberately order the cheapest thing on the menu and then complain about it.   My parents (who were paying) would beg her to order what she wanted to eat as opposed to the cheapest thing, but noooo!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 05, 2012, 11:55:56 AM
I dunno, I compare it to if they wanted to watch two different movies, one that they both would like and one that only she would like.  She'd honestly say "Well I'd like to see that one, but let's see the one we'd both enjoy."  He'd say "No, we'll go see the one you want to see!" She'd argue she could just see that one by herself another time (which she honestly liked doing and he knows it) or with me and he'd say "No no, we're going to see what you want to see."

Then after they'd see it he'd whine that she MADE him go see it.  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on December 06, 2012, 08:21:12 AM
I know I have told this one before:

When going out to dinner with the family, my father would never order dessert for himself.  While everyone else would be eating their dessert, he would look intently from one to the other at every bite until one of us would crack and say, "Oh, here, just take it."  The first time we went to a restaurant with Mom and Pop, Pop tried it on DH.  DH was oblivious, and, in spite of my father watching every bite he took, finished his dessert.  DH later asked me why Pop was staring at him.

We never did break Pop of this habit, but he never tried it again with DH.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 06, 2012, 08:32:33 AM
I know I have told this one before:

When going out to dinner with the family, my father would never order dessert for himself.  While everyone else would be eating their dessert, he would look intently from one to the other at every bite until one of us would crack and say, "Oh, here, just take it."  The first time we went to a restaurant with Mom and Pop, Pop tried it on DH.  DH was oblivious, and, in spite of my father watching every bite he took, finished his dessert.  DH later asked me why Pop was staring at him.

We never did break Pop of this habit, but he never tried it again with DH.

Somebody should have given your dad their dessert and then flagged down the server and ordered another one for themself.  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on December 06, 2012, 08:42:07 AM
I know I have told this one before:

When going out to dinner with the family, my father would never order dessert for himself.  While everyone else would be eating their dessert, he would look intently from one to the other at every bite until one of us would crack and say, "Oh, here, just take it."  The first time we went to a restaurant with Mom and Pop, Pop tried it on DH.  DH was oblivious, and, in spite of my father watching every bite he took, finished his dessert.  DH later asked me why Pop was staring at him.

We never did break Pop of this habit, but he never tried it again with DH.

Somebody should have given your dad their dessert and then flagged down the server and ordered another one for themself.  ;D

Honestly, it never occurred to us to do that.  We usually would eat about half and pass the rest to Pop.  It's been 13 years and I'd give anything (including all my desserts) to see him do that one more time.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 06, 2012, 04:48:12 PM
I know I have told this one before:

When going out to dinner with the family, my father would never order dessert for himself.  While everyone else would be eating their dessert, he would look intently from one to the other at every bite until one of us would crack and say, "Oh, here, just take it."  The first time we went to a restaurant with Mom and Pop, Pop tried it on DH.  DH was oblivious, and, in spite of my father watching every bite he took, finished his dessert.  DH later asked me why Pop was staring at him.

We never did break Pop of this habit, but he never tried it again with DH.

Somebody should have given your dad their dessert and then flagged down the server and ordered another one for themself.  ;D

Honestly, it never occurred to us to do that.  We usually would eat about half and pass the rest to Pop.  It's been 13 years and I'd give anything (including all my desserts) to see him do that one more time.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant give him the half eaten dessert as usual and order a new whole one. I just thought it would have been fun to see him go  :o, but we're like that in my family. Lots of joking and giving each other a bad time - all in fun!  :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on December 07, 2012, 07:54:47 AM
I know I have told this one before:

When going out to dinner with the family, my father would never order dessert for himself.  While everyone else would be eating their dessert, he would look intently from one to the other at every bite until one of us would crack and say, "Oh, here, just take it."  The first time we went to a restaurant with Mom and Pop, Pop tried it on DH.  DH was oblivious, and, in spite of my father watching every bite he took, finished his dessert.  DH later asked me why Pop was staring at him.

We never did break Pop of this habit, but he never tried it again with DH.

Somebody should have given your dad their dessert and then flagged down the server and ordered another one for themself.  ;D

Honestly, it never occurred to us to do that.  We usually would eat about half and pass the rest to Pop.  It's been 13 years and I'd give anything (including all my desserts) to see him do that one more time.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant give him the half eaten dessert as usual and order a new whole one. I just thought it would have been fun to see him go  :o, but we're like that in my family. Lots of joking and giving each other a bad time - all in fun!  :)

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Amava on December 07, 2012, 08:03:19 AM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on December 07, 2012, 10:32:15 AM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D

My father's best friend was my dog, Bear.  We always said they shared the same brain.

They used to drive around town, Bear riding shotgun and stop at Burger King.  The staff knew to prepare "the usual," two Whoppers, one with everything and one plain, two fries, a large Coke and a small water.  When they would pick my mother up from work, Bear would look at her, then look at the back seat.  People would ask me why my mother always rode in the back.  The answer:  "Bear called shotgun."

Bear died on the 14th and my father the 19th of January 2000.  I like to think of the two of them wandering around Rainbow Bridge with an endless supply of Whoppers.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: mmswm on December 07, 2012, 12:08:58 PM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D

We must be related because I swear I've never seen anybody eat more food than my boys.  My youngest son got "cut off" at Denny's with their all you can eat pancakes.  He was only 9 when that happened.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: GratefulMaria on December 07, 2012, 12:14:26 PM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D

We must be related because I swear I've never seen anybody eat more food than my boys.  My youngest son got "cut off" at Denny's with their all you can eat pancakes.  He was only 9 when that happened.

I bow.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Amava on December 07, 2012, 12:17:23 PM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D

My father's best friend was my dog, Bear.  We always said they shared the same brain.

They used to drive around town, Bear riding shotgun and stop at Burger King.  The staff knew to prepare "the usual," two Whoppers, one with everything and one plain, two fries, a large Coke and a small water.  When they would pick my mother up from work, Bear would look at her, then look at the back seat.  People would ask me why my mother always rode in the back.  The answer:  "Bear called shotgun."

Bear died on the 14th and my father the 19th of January 2000.  I like to think of the two of them wandering around Rainbow Bridge with an endless supply of Whoppers.

How beautiful, thank you so much for sharing this!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: alkira6 on December 07, 2012, 12:19:03 PM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D

We must be related because I swear I've never seen anybody eat more food than my boys.  My youngest son got "cut off" at Denny's with their all you can eat pancakes.  He was only 9 when that happened.

Stepping in with mine - my DH (at that time BF) got cut off at the buffet at CeCe's Pizza for eating too much.  He even took advantage of the policy for them making a pizza if you ask.  He wound up eating 14 or 15 of those as well as off the buffet. At the time he had a 27 inch waist and weighed 140 pounds on a good day. Ten years later he's up to 150 pounds and a 32 inch waist and STILL eats like that. grumble*grumble* stupid overefficient metabolism*grumble
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on December 07, 2012, 01:21:29 PM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D

My father's best friend was my dog, Bear.  We always said they shared the same brain.

They used to drive around town, Bear riding shotgun and stop at Burger King.  The staff knew to prepare "the usual," two Whoppers, one with everything and one plain, two fries, a large Coke and a small water.  When they would pick my mother up from work, Bear would look at her, then look at the back seat.  People would ask me why my mother always rode in the back.  The answer:  "Bear called shotgun."

Bear died on the 14th and my father the 19th of January 2000.  I like to think of the two of them wandering around Rainbow Bridge with an endless supply of Whoppers.

Man, I don't even like dogs and I love that dog.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: mmswm on December 07, 2012, 03:26:59 PM

He would have stared at the second one, too.  One of these days, I'll have to tell the story about my father and uncles' eating contests.  They could literally clean out a restaurant.

Was your Pop related to my dog by any chance?  ;D  ;D

We must be related because I swear I've never seen anybody eat more food than my boys.  My youngest son got "cut off" at Denny's with their all you can eat pancakes.  He was only 9 when that happened.

Stepping in with mine - my DH (at that time BF) got cut off at the buffet at CeCe's Pizza for eating too much.  He even took advantage of the policy for them making a pizza if you ask.  He wound up eating 14 or 15 of those as well as off the buffet. At the time he had a 27 inch waist and weighed 140 pounds on a good day. Ten years later he's up to 150 pounds and a 32 inch waist and STILL eats like that. grumble*grumble* stupid overefficient metabolism*grumble

Unfortunately, I believe this is what I have to look forward to in the near future, when his appetite *really* kicks in.  The disgusting part is the youngest is my skinniest kid.  He wears a boy's size 10 slim, and even then they're a little loose.  Meanwhile, I can look at a salad and gain weight.  I don't even have to eat it.  Just look at it.  Life is just not fair.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: audrey11 on December 10, 2012, 08:16:55 PM
Being PA is quite possibly my mother's favorite hobby.  If we try to give her what she "wants", that just fans the flames.  Once, a bunch of us were going somewhere and taking multiple cars.  Well, she wanted to ride in my car, but I guess just expected the rest of us to figure this out via ESP.  When she realized she wasn't riding in my car, she was all "fine, I guess I'll just stay here then" etc.  We said okay and left.  Since the silent treatment is her second favorite hobby, the family was subjected to that for a few weeks after that.  I tire of giving her what she "wants" when I know it will ensure silent treatment fits for days, weeks, months.

This year, I hit upon a new plan.  Just act like everything is normal.  Usually her PA comes out in the form of massive hissy fits like you would expect from a toddler.  So now, that's what we do.  We just keep acting like everything's totally normal and that my mother has not, once again, regressed to childhood.  Doesn't matter if she's throwing her fits at a restaurant, in the car, when I'm visiting her, whatever.  She still hasn't found a new hobby, but at least the rest of us no longer want to take up drinking. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: rain on December 10, 2012, 09:55:26 PM
are you one of my nieces?


my OS does stuff like that (throwing tantrums)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: LadyClaire on December 11, 2012, 10:39:50 AM
I think I've shared this before but it fits here too. 

A guy DH and I were friends with in college used to do this to his wife a lot.  One example I remember well, because he was such a jerk about it, was when we were trying to decide what kind of pizza we wanted and she was really in the mood for Pizza Hut.   

Friend: I'd like Pizza Hut, but I know how you feel about them. (he got fired)
Her STBX (HSTBX): No, if you want PH, we can get PH
Friend: Are you sure? I know you don't like going there after how they treated you.   (knowing his work ethic, he probably earned it)
HSTBX: No no, if that's what you want, we can have PH

Tired of the back and forth DH and I said "Pizza Hut it is!" and went to the closest one.

The whole time HSTBX sulked and whined that she would choose Pizza Hut when she knew how he felt about it.

My ex boyfriend hated mushrooms. He couldn't stand the smell of them, even. I love mushrooms on my pizza, but I'd get something else because I knew he disliked them and would complain about being able to smell them. We would usually order a pizza on Friday nights, and either do half-and-half toppings (one half for me, one for him) or two small pizzas with our toppings of choice.

He was a very PA person, and it started out with him saying "Oh, go on, go ahead and get mushrooms, I won't mind" and then if I agreed and got pizza with mushrooms, he'd get hugely offended that I actually agreed to get mushrooms because I knew he didn't like them. So I stopped agreeing and would just tell him to order something else. I guess that took away his fun, because he'd just order pizza with mushrooms anyways and then complain about how the smell of them made him so sick, but he got it anyways, and how I was so thoughtless to want mushrooms (even though I'd told him repeatedly NOT to order them on mine if he disliked the smell that much).

So finally I started ordering the pizza, without mushrooms, so that he couldn't do that anymore..and then he'd get offended that I thought he'd be so selfish as to not want me to get the pizza I liked. I seriously could not win.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gingerzing on December 11, 2012, 11:38:01 AM
I think I've shared this before but it fits here too. 


The whole time HSTBX sulked and whined that she would choose Pizza Hut when she knew how he felt about it.


So finally I started ordering the pizza, without mushrooms, so that he couldn't do that anymore..and then he'd get offended that I thought he'd be so selfish as to not want me to get the pizza I liked. I seriously could not win.

I assume that both these stories are only part of why they are Ex?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 11, 2012, 02:23:08 PM
In the case of friends stbx, yes, as that was a major pattern of behavior for him. LadyClaire, your ex sounds a lot like friend's stbxh, as that sounds like something he'd do to friend. 

At one point after she filed for divorce, he said "Maybe I'll just go skydiving and with my luck I'll get a parachute that won't open and I'll DIE! I bet that'll make you happy!"

Friend said "Well, no not really, you don't have life insurance so it wouldn't do me any good."  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on December 11, 2012, 02:26:16 PM
I think I've shared this before but it fits here too. 

A guy DH and I were friends with in college used to do this to his wife a lot.  One example I remember well, because he was such a jerk about it, was when we were trying to decide what kind of pizza we wanted and she was really in the mood for Pizza Hut.   

Friend: I'd like Pizza Hut, but I know how you feel about them. (he got fired)
Her STBX (HSTBX): No, if you want PH, we can get PH
Friend: Are you sure? I know you don't like going there after how they treated you.   (knowing his work ethic, he probably earned it)
HSTBX: No no, if that's what you want, we can have PH

Tired of the back and forth DH and I said "Pizza Hut it is!" and went to the closest one.

The whole time HSTBX sulked and whined that she would choose Pizza Hut when she knew how he felt about it.

My ex boyfriend hated mushrooms. He couldn't stand the smell of them, even. I love mushrooms on my pizza, but I'd get something else because I knew he disliked them and would complain about being able to smell them. We would usually order a pizza on Friday nights, and either do half-and-half toppings (one half for me, one for him) or two small pizzas with our toppings of choice.

He was a very PA person, and it started out with him saying "Oh, go on, go ahead and get mushrooms, I won't mind" and then if I agreed and got pizza with mushrooms, he'd get hugely offended that I actually agreed to get mushrooms because I knew he didn't like them. So I stopped agreeing and would just tell him to order something else. I guess that took away his fun, because he'd just order pizza with mushrooms anyways and then complain about how the smell of them made him so sick, but he got it anyways, and how I was so thoughtless to want mushrooms (even though I'd told him repeatedly NOT to order them on mine if he disliked the smell that much).

So finally I started ordering the pizza, without mushrooms, so that he couldn't do that anymore..and then he'd get offended that I thought he'd be so selfish as to not want me to get the pizza I liked. I seriously could not win.

Bold sentence is incorrect because red text.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: LadyClaire on December 11, 2012, 03:05:52 PM
I think I've shared this before but it fits here too. 


The whole time HSTBX sulked and whined that she would choose Pizza Hut when she knew how he felt about it.


So finally I started ordering the pizza, without mushrooms, so that he couldn't do that anymore..and then he'd get offended that I thought he'd be so selfish as to not want me to get the pizza I liked. I seriously could not win.

I assume that both these stories are only part of why they are Ex?

One of many, many reasons he is Ex. He also tried the whole "I'll kill myself if you leave me!!" thing when I dumped him. So I called his best friend and told him that Ex was threatening suicide and it might be a good idea if Ex's grandmother sent him a plane ticket to go back to England. His friend called his mother and grandmother, who called him and freaked out that he was threatening suicide. To say he was displeased with me would be an understatement.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 11, 2012, 03:07:24 PM
My ex boyfriend hated mushrooms. He couldn't stand the smell of them, even. I love mushrooms on my pizza, but I'd get something else because I knew he disliked them and would complain about being able to smell them. We would usually order a pizza on Friday nights, and either do half-and-half toppings (one half for me, one for him) or two small pizzas with our toppings of choice.

He was a very PA person, and it started out with him saying "Oh, go on, go ahead and get mushrooms, I won't mind" and then if I agreed and got pizza with mushrooms, he'd get hugely offended that I actually agreed to get mushrooms because I knew he didn't like them. So I stopped agreeing and would just tell him to order something else. I guess that took away his fun, because he'd just order pizza with mushrooms anyways and then complain about how the smell of them made him so sick, but he got it anyways, and how I was so thoughtless to want mushrooms (even though I'd told him repeatedly NOT to order them on mine if he disliked the smell that much).

So finally I started ordering the pizza, without mushrooms, so that he couldn't do that anymore..and then he'd get offended that I thought he'd be so selfish as to not want me to get the pizza I liked. I seriously could not win.

Bold sentence is incorrect because red text.

Hee, hee.  I love this.

I'd say that's called winning!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: MrTango on December 11, 2012, 03:15:47 PM
One of many, many reasons he is Ex. He also tried the whole "I'll kill myself if you leave me!!" thing when I dumped him. So I called his best friend and told him that Ex was threatening suicide and it might be a good idea if Ex's grandmother sent him a plane ticket to go back to England. His friend called his mother and grandmother, who called him and freaked out that he was threatening suicide. To say he was displeased with me would be an understatement.

I must be a horrible person.  I find myself taking delight in situations where people say something along the lines of the bolded in a clearly attention-seeking way and then they get upset when they get more attention than they can handle...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ica171 on December 11, 2012, 04:11:48 PM
It's not exactly on the same level as most of the stories here, and it's more passive than aggressive, but lately my 8yo son has decided he can get around the "don't ask for stuff while we're at the store" rule by saying "I wish I could have _____/I wish we could get ________." Depending on my mood my response runs the gamut from no acknowledgement to "Well, we're not getting ________ today" to "If wishes were horses then beggars would ride" to "Stop asking for stuff by saying you wish you could have it. That's no different than just asking for it." None of it works. Not surprisingly, since he's incredibly stubborn and has also perfected the art of selective hearing. It's also why I do my best to go to the store when he's in school.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 11, 2012, 06:10:29 PM
My oldest does that, like he thinks I'll get tired of him saying that and will break down and get it for him. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 11, 2012, 06:47:45 PM
My kids know that gets met with "You should save up and buy it!" Kinda like when they ask "Can I have X?" and I say "I don't know, did you bring enough money?"  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: MommyPenguin on December 11, 2012, 07:19:23 PM
Yeah, that's what I tell mine as well.  "Well, you can decide to save for that, sure.  Just remember, you'd have to spend the money you're saving up for the LEGO robotics set."  That usually works.  :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ica171 on December 11, 2012, 07:29:05 PM
He did get a Kindle Fire by saving up his money (we paid for half), but this is mostly stuff like Pop-Tarts and ice cream, with the occasional Nerf gun thrown in. I don't mind stuff like that once in a while, but if I let on that he could just buy them with his own money he'd never eat anything else!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 11, 2012, 08:02:18 PM
He did get a Kindle Fire by saving up his money (we paid for half), but this is mostly stuff like Pop-Tarts and ice cream, with the occasional Nerf gun thrown in. I don't mind stuff like that once in a while, but if I let on that he could just buy them with his own money he'd never eat anything else!

Good point

I can still do that with my middle and oldest because they don't actually want the thing when they find out it'll come out of their pocket. (They are savers, too. DD bought herself a Nook Color.)

My youngest, though? You give him $1 and he's looking for something that costs $1.10 and asking to borrow a dime  ;D. I could see him doing chores for pop tart money. There's another line I use on my kids, maybe it'd work on yours. When they do the mopey "I wish" thing I say "It's important to have dreams. Maybe, if you work very hard, you can achieve that some day!"

Sarcasm is the official language of this household. We're all fluent.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Softly Spoken on December 11, 2012, 10:18:11 PM
It has been really interesting reading these stories. I was inspired to actually wiki "passive aggressive." ::)

I recently broke up with my best friend and in the last conversation (argument) we had, she accused me of being passive aggressive. This really bothered me and I spent a lot of time trying to work out if it was true or not. After reading everyone else's stories here, I have decided that I am not a PA person by nature, just a mostly passive person who has to work on expressing herself. Like when I say "I don't care," I. really. don't. care. No ESP games, no hidden meanings, no code words, guesswork, just true. For my friend apparently that was PA. Like when I said I didn't care where we ate, she would get mad that I wouldn't choose. Maybe we could have worked things out if she had met my perceived PA with more proactive responses like PPs here did, but she chose to fight PA with PA (i.e. "Well I guess we won't get any food") and so we were doomed.

I'll admit, I may say I'm "fine" when I'm not, but it's usually because I don't know how to explain what I'm really feeling and/or I don't want to get into it. :(

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

I would never say something with the expectation that I would get the opposite of what I asked for - that's like the antithesis of communication! :P

Isn't it funny though, how in some situations even some etiquette is PA-ish? Like if there is only one of something left, we are supposed to say "Oh no, you take it" and of course everyone says that and so no one gets it. If someone jumped in with "Okay, I'll take it" they would be considered greedy or rude for admitting they wanted it. ???

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: yokozbornak on December 11, 2012, 10:23:56 PM
It has been really interesting reading these stories. I was inspired to actually wiki "passive aggressive." ::)

I recently broke up with my best friend and in the last conversation (argument) we had, she accused me of being passive aggressive. This really bothered me and I spent a lot of time trying to work out if it was true or not. After reading everyone else's stories here, I have decided that I am not a PA person by nature, just a mostly passive person who has to work on expressing herself. Like when I say "I don't care," I. really. don't. care. No ESP games, no hidden meanings, no code words, guesswork, just true. For my friend apparently that was PA. Like when I said I didn't care where we ate, she would get mad that I wouldn't choose. Maybe we could have worked things out if she had met my perceived PA with more proactive responses like PPs here did, but she chose to fight PA with PA (i.e. "Well I guess we won't get any food") and so we were doomed.

I'll admit, I may say I'm "fine" when I'm not, but it's usually because I don't know how to explain what I'm really feeling and/or I don't want to get into it. :(

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

I would never say something with the expectation that I would get the opposite of what I asked for - that's like the antithesis of communication! :P

Isn't it funny though, how in some situations even some etiquette is PA-ish? Like if there is only one of something left, we are supposed to say "Oh no, you take it" and of course everyone says that and so no one gets it. If someone jumped in with "Okay, I'll take it" they would be considered greedy or rude for admitting they wanted it. ???

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D

I just wanted to say that your ex-friend does sound PA, not you. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: MariaE on December 11, 2012, 11:54:21 PM
Like when I say "I don't care," I. really. don't. care. No ESP games, no hidden meanings, no code words, guesswork, just true.

In Danish, "I don't care" is literally "I'm equally happy" (as in, "I'm equally happy with either option"). Unfortunately, some people think it 'clever' to reply "Equally happy means never happy!" No. It doesn't. Equally happy means I'm happy either way.

My childhood best friend use to say that all the time. It frustrated me to no end.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on December 12, 2012, 10:00:20 AM
Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D


 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: StuffedGrapeLeaves on December 12, 2012, 11:18:49 AM
Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D


 ;D ;D ;D

One of my friends had a grandmother who was the queen of PA, and had been going through the whole "I might be dying tomorrow" rigamarole for over 20 years.  Her relatives usually just rolled their eyes and ignored her whenever she went into this mode.  Eventually the grandmother did die the day after a holiday (forgot which one) when she was over 90 years old.  My friend told me that her brother's reaction when finding out the news was, "Well, she is finally right.  She must be enjoying bragging about that down below."   ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Allyson on December 12, 2012, 11:39:43 AM
On the 'I don't care' thing. When one person never chooses, even they honestly *don't* care, it can still be frustrating for the 'chooser'. I have had friendships like that, where the other person honestly never has a preference, or at least never expresses such. I still wish once in awhile I got to be the one who didn't have to choose! Even just me saying 'Do you want A or B' because I like both equally the other person could pick one or the other based on random chance if they want. ;)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 12, 2012, 11:53:42 AM
...   

Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D

My mother used to say of such people "The Good Lord doesn't want him and the Devil's afraid he'll take over!!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: amylouky on December 12, 2012, 11:55:17 AM
It's not exactly on the same level as most of the stories here, and it's more passive than aggressive, but lately my 8yo son has decided he can get around the "don't ask for stuff while we're at the store" rule by saying "I wish I could have _____/I wish we could get ________." Depending on my mood my response runs the gamut from no acknowledgement to "Well, we're not getting ________ today" to "If wishes were horses then beggars would ride" to "Stop asking for stuff by saying you wish you could have it. That's no different than just asking for it." None of it works. Not surprisingly, since he's incredibly stubborn and has also perfected the art of selective hearing. It's also why I do my best to go to the store when he's in school.

My 5 year old has started doing this! I generally just answer it with, "Mmmhmm.. that would be nice, wouldn't it?" Or, he'll see me eating/drinking something and instead of asking if he can have some, he'll just say "I really like that". I just smile and say, "I know, so do I!".
He's going to learn young that he's going to have to ask directly.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Virg on December 12, 2012, 12:11:00 PM
ica171 wrote:

"It's not exactly on the same level as most of the stories here, and it's more passive than aggressive, but lately my 8yo son has decided he can get around the "don't ask for stuff while we're at the store" rule by saying "I wish I could have _____/I wish we could get ________.""

We had a rule much like that, where my kids were allowed to ask once for something (not just at the store but it works for this example) but repeated requests would get them in trouble.  They did this whole PA thing for a little while, so I just started reacting to it exactly as though they'd asked directly, and punishing in the same way as a direct request.  It dried up in a hurry.

Virg
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: onyonryngs on December 12, 2012, 12:26:36 PM
...   

Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D

My mother used to say of such people "The Good Lord doesn't want him and the Devil's afraid he'll take over!!"

I have so many family members that this could apply to.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 12, 2012, 12:29:28 PM
...   

Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D

My mother used to say of such people "The Good Lord doesn't want him and the Devil's afraid he'll take over!!"

I like that one. Reminds me of another "be the kind of woman that, when your feet hit the floor the Devil says "Oh carp, she's up!"

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Softly Spoken on December 12, 2012, 01:16:21 PM
...   

Funny thing how so many people who talk about dying end up living forever - it's either reverse psychology or the Grim Reaper is avoiding them because he doesn't want to deal with their whining! >:D

My mother used to say of such people "The Good Lord doesn't want him and the Devil's afraid he'll take over!!"

I like that one. Reminds me of another "be the kind of woman that, when your feet hit the floor the Devil says "Oh carp, she's up!"

Makes me think of the movie "City Slickers": "Lord, we're sending you Curly...try not to piss him off."  ;D

/end threadjack! We now return to our regularly scheduled topic...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 12, 2012, 01:18:34 PM
One of many, many reasons he is Ex. He also tried the whole "I'll kill myself if you leave me!!" thing when I dumped him. So I called his best friend and told him that Ex was threatening suicide and it might be a good idea if Ex's grandmother sent him a plane ticket to go back to England. His friend called his mother and grandmother, who called him and freaked out that he was threatening suicide. To say he was displeased with me would be an understatement.

I must be a horrible person.  I find myself taking delight in situations where people say something along the lines of the bolded in a clearly attention-seeking way and then they get upset when they get more attention than they can handle...

I know I am a horrible person. 

I shared my story of the PA co-worker who threatened suicide and then yelled at me for calling the cops.  He was later committed. I must admit that while I did have some humanitarian gladness for his mental health, there was also part of me that was gleeful in a "Well, lets see if you pull THAT act again!" sort of way.

I think the lesson is that it's very easy to be a horrible person after putting up with horrible behavior.  That's why I like the fact that making him an ex was the ultimate win.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Outdoor Girl on December 12, 2012, 01:28:10 PM
... there was also part of me that was gleeful in a "Well, lets see if you pull THAT act again!" sort of way.

As long as you kept it to yourself, having this sentiment does not make you a horrible person.   :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Seraphia on December 12, 2012, 01:50:32 PM
It's not exactly on the same level as most of the stories here, and it's more passive than aggressive, but lately my 8yo son has decided he can get around the "don't ask for stuff while we're at the store" rule by saying "I wish I could have _____/I wish we could get ________." Depending on my mood my response runs the gamut from no acknowledgement to "Well, we're not getting ________ today" to "If wishes were horses then beggars would ride" to "Stop asking for stuff by saying you wish you could have it. That's no different than just asking for it." None of it works. Not surprisingly, since he's incredibly stubborn and has also perfected the art of selective hearing. It's also why I do my best to go to the store when he's in school.

My 5 year old has started doing this! I generally just answer it with, "Mmmhmm.. that would be nice, wouldn't it?" Or, he'll see me eating/drinking something and instead of asking if he can have some, he'll just say "I really like that". I just smile and say, "I know, so do I!".
He's going to learn young that he's going to have to ask directly.

My niece tried that on me. "I love popcorn!" *pause* "Yes, me too."

My friend couldn't figure out why I hadn't just explained that I wouldn't buy her any, since she'd been begging earlier for some and I had already told her no. I told Friend that I wasn't going to get into an argument with a five-year-old about "But whyyyyyyyyyy?" when she hadn't made a request for any in the first place.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sheila Take a Bow on December 12, 2012, 02:30:40 PM
I had a PA ex-boyfriend.  He used to insist on paying for all of our dates -- he'd actually make me put money away if I tried to pay for anything.  And then he'd complain that I never paid for anything.  After a while I just made sure to pay for everything (I made more money than he did), and then he complained that he didn't like being kept.

Then he started in on how we spent too much time together, and he wished he had more time for his friends.  So when he called one day and asked to cancel a date so he could hang out with his buddy, I said that was fine.  And then the week after that, he complained that I wasn't upset that he bailed on me.

Finally he told me he didn't think we had a future and he wanted to break up with me.  I didn't try to argue for him to stay; I took him at his word.  A couple of weeks later, he started calling me, saying he missed me terribly.

After a few calls, I realized that this was how the relationship was going to go if I went back to him -- constantly having to prove myself to him, always being tested.  So I told him that I realized he was right, that we didn't have a future.  It felt so liberating!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on December 12, 2012, 02:53:24 PM
Wow, Sheila, you may have just won the thread.  He sounds like a nightmare.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 12, 2012, 03:02:20 PM
No kidding, I wouldn't have patience for that either! What a pill! 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: bopper on December 12, 2012, 03:36:06 PM
It's not exactly on the same level as most of the stories here, and it's more passive than aggressive, but lately my 8yo son has decided he can get around the "don't ask for stuff while we're at the store" rule by saying "I wish I could have _____/I wish we could get ________." Depending on my mood my response runs the gamut from no acknowledgement to "Well, we're not getting ________ today" to "If wishes were horses then beggars would ride" to "Stop asking for stuff by saying you wish you could have it. That's no different than just asking for it." None of it works. Not surprisingly, since he's incredibly stubborn and has also perfected the art of selective hearing. It's also why I do my best to go to the store when he's in school.

I would go with a middle route..."Put that on your Birthday/Christmas list!"
So you are acknowledging the desire and giving a possibility of him getting it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: reddevil on December 12, 2012, 03:37:23 PM
A friend dealt with her martyr mother in law in a way that I don't believe is ehell approved, but worked after one time...

Martyr MIL would constantly insist that she would make the meal, she would host, she would buy, etc, then complain about how she was ALWAYS doing everything and it was SO HARD, etc.  So one day, Friend looks at her, gets a "thinking face" on, and says, hey, would you mind doing something for me?  MIL says what?  Friend says "Would you mind crawling down off your cross?  We need the wood."  Then she smiled.  Not one more complaint, and Friend got to host occasionally. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Hijinks on December 12, 2012, 04:42:07 PM
My DH sometimes starts to mutter loudly over something that annoys him when I'm around, like dishes on the countertop, or that the oven isn't clean enough...I think he wants me to jump in there, but I never open my mouth or do anything. If he wants to discuss the issue or wants me to help, he can just ask. It works for me :)

I will admit that I'm guilty of this when I have had enough of him never doing dishes  ::)

Just last night I was playing a video game and I vaguely heard DH asking the toddler if he "went" and then he started going "Ewwwww..."  (pause)  "Ewwww..." (pause), then he threw down the remote and stormed off to change the offensive diaper.  When he came back, I said, "Honey, if you'd like me to change a diaper, just tell me.  I wasn't paying attention to what you were doing other than you were making an annoying noise."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: SamiHami on December 12, 2012, 06:02:21 PM
My brother is normally a pretty sane, level headed guy. Not perfect of course, but usually a good person to hang around with.

Earlier this year his wife left him. It was a shock (after 28 years of marriage) and he honestly didn't know how to handle it. At one point he really did completely fall apart. I know that at one point he sent an email to his estranged wife and while I don't know the exact wording, apparently he threatened to kill himself. His STBX did the right thing and called the police, even though she was sure he was just venting. I don't blame her; after all, what if he actually had done it?

He was FURIOUS that she called the police. What was worse was that their daughter (22) was home when this happened. She was terribly upset so she did the only thing she knew to do; she called her grandparents (my and DB's parents) and told them about it. They jumped in their car and went straight to his house, and I spoke with my niece on the phone the entire time to keep her calm until they got there.

Happily, he never truly intended to kill himself; he was lashing out because I think he genuinely didn't know how to handle what was going on. He was not pleased at the attention from the police and from family, but now he knows that people will react if he says something foolish.

Happily he is well past that and is now a relatively normal person again.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowfire on December 12, 2012, 10:44:31 PM
My mother used to say of such people "The Good Lord doesn't want him and the Devil's afraid he'll take over!!"

Our family had a variation on that.  "The Lord doesn't want him & the Devil won't take him a minute before he has to!"

My MIL is another PA Drama Queen.  She is famous for the "Never Darken my door AGAIN!" lines.  I've given her her wish.  I have not entered her house since September 2008 and have not spoken to her since around December of the same year...and that time I hung up on her since it was either hang up or reach through the phone line and do violence.  When someone accuses me of being a liar and a thief and breaking into their house on an almost daily basis, I am only too happy to have nothing more to do with them.  (Yes, MIL is starting to get some form of dementia, but she has disliked me from the day she met me.  You see, SHE didn't choose me to marry her son.  He had the unmitigated gall to make that choice without consulting her...)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on December 12, 2012, 10:49:58 PM
My mother used to say of such people "The Good Lord doesn't want him and the Devil's afraid he'll take over!!"

Our family had a variation on that.  "The Lord doesn't want him & the Devil won't take him a minute before he has to!"

My MIL is another PA Drama Queen.  She is famous for the "Never Darken my door AGAIN!" lines.  I've given her her wish.  I have not entered her house since September 2008 and have not spoken to her since around December of the same year...and that time I hung up on her since it was either hang up or reach through the phone line and do violence.  When someone accuses me of being a liar and a thief and breaking into their house on an almost daily basis, I am only too happy to have nothing more to do with them.  (Yes, MIL is starting to get some form of dementia, but she has disliked me from the day she met me.  You see, SHE didn't choose me to marry her son.  He had the unmitigated gall to make that choice without consulting her...)

Evil, Snarky, and myself are of one mind on this:  What we'd *really* like to say (if such a thing could ever happen) would be this:

"It really galls you that he loved me enough to choose me to spend his life with, but that he tolerates you because cruel irony genetically linked him to you, doesn't it?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: CakeBeret on December 13, 2012, 10:05:38 AM
A friend dealt with her martyr mother in law in a way that I don't believe is ehell approved, but worked after one time...

Martyr MIL would constantly insist that she would make the meal, she would host, she would buy, etc, then complain about how she was ALWAYS doing everything and it was SO HARD, etc.  So one day, Friend looks at her, gets a "thinking face" on, and says, hey, would you mind doing something for me?  MIL says what?  Friend says "Would you mind crawling down off your cross?  We need the wood."  Then she smiled.  Not one more complaint, and Friend got to host occasionally.

 :o ;D

Not Ehell approved, but I think a good term would be "Evil Genius".
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 13, 2012, 10:20:29 AM
A friend dealt with her martyr mother in law in a way that I don't believe is ehell approved, but worked after one time...

Martyr MIL would constantly insist that she would make the meal, she would host, she would buy, etc, then complain about how she was ALWAYS doing everything and it was SO HARD, etc.  So one day, Friend looks at her, gets a "thinking face" on, and says, hey, would you mind doing something for me?  MIL says what?  Friend says "Would you mind crawling down off your cross?  We need the wood."  Then she smiled.  Not one more complaint, and Friend got to host occasionally.

Not ehell approved, but depending on the relationship I don't think this is a bad thing.  My husband would make snarky comments like that early in our relationship when I went into "martyr" mode.  Maybe not ehell, but I appreciated the reminder said with some humor.  (And he said it with love, not in a mean, bitter way.) I really don't want to be an eternal martyr, but it's a hard, hard, hard habit to break.  He would make me laugh and then I'd step back and re-examine how I was approaching my problem.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 13, 2012, 12:52:31 PM
Quote
What we'd *really* like to say (if such a thing could ever happen) would be this:

"It really galls you that he loved me enough to choose me to spend his life with, but that he tolerates you because cruel irony genetically linked him to you, doesn't it?"

Think strong thoughts for me on Christmas Eve when we visit my in-laws, because Evil Shalamar is reeeeeally going to want to say that to my mother-in-law.   >:D

I always say that MIL would've been much happier if her son had chosen a meek miss who agreed with everything she says.  Instead, he chose me.    (Actually, I set my cap at him and the poor guy didn't stand a chance.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: MindsEye on December 13, 2012, 02:28:37 PM
Kind of like Sheila's story (which is what reminded me about him!) I used to have a boyfriend who would always pull the "I am not good enough for you, you can do better" routine all of the time... and I was of course supposed to fawn all over him and reassure him that oh no, I loved him and he was perfect.  Which I did.  For a while.  (Hey, I was in college and stupid.)

And then one day I just got fed up with the whole routine, and when he started in on his "I am not good enough..." lines, I said something like "You're right, you really aren't good enough and I probably can do a lot better" and dumped him on the spot.  It wasn't until after I dumped him that I realized just how creepy and controlling he was, and that I had really dodged a bullet.   
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: nuit93 on December 13, 2012, 03:45:59 PM
Kind of like Sheila's story (which is what reminded me about him!) I used to have a boyfriend who would always pull the "I am not good enough for you, you can do better" routine all of the time... and I was of course supposed to fawn all over him and reassure him that oh no, I loved him and he was perfect.  Which I did.  For a while.  (Hey, I was in college and stupid.)

And then one day I just got fed up with the whole routine, and when he started in on his "I am not good enough..." lines, I said something like "You're right, you really aren't good enough and I probably can do a lot better" and dumped him on the spot.  It wasn't until after I dumped him that I realized just how creepy and controlling he was, and that I had really dodged a bullet.   

You had one of those too?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ladyknight1 on December 13, 2012, 03:50:42 PM
Speaking of restaurants, I remember when my grandmother was alive - she'd always deliberately order the cheapest thing on the menu and then complain about it.   My parents (who were paying) would beg her to order what she wanted to eat as opposed to the cheapest thing, but noooo!

During our only family dinner out while on a group vacation, both my mother and youngest sister did this. They ordered something based on price point only, and then sulked the entire time about their food. I ordered something $1-2 more and was very happy with my food. YS does this when she is with us and away from my parents as well. One of the reasons she has been cut is her PA behavior.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: iridaceae on December 13, 2012, 07:54:25 PM
Speaking of restaurants, I remember when my grandmother was alive - she'd always deliberately order the cheapest thing on the menu and then complain about it.   My parents (who were paying) would beg her to order what she wanted to eat as opposed to the cheapest thing, but noooo!

During our only family dinner out while on a group vacation, both my mother and youngest sister did this. They ordered something based on price point only, and then sulked the entire time about their food. I ordered something $1-2 more and was very happy with my food. YS does this when she is with us and away from my parents as well. One of the reasons she has been cut is her PA behavior.

With your youngest sister this might be more learned behavior than anything though. I've known people who had it [not literally] beat into them that when they went out to eat they were to order the cheapest thing as it was the polite thing to do. Learning that this wasn't so was a hard lesson because "what if they're just saying that to be polite?" 

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ladyknight1 on December 14, 2012, 08:03:13 AM
It's not exactly on the same level as most of the stories here, and it's more passive than aggressive, but lately my 8yo son has decided he can get around the "don't ask for stuff while we're at the store" rule by saying "I wish I could have _____/I wish we could get ________." Depending on my mood my response runs the gamut from no acknowledgement to "Well, we're not getting ________ today" to "If wishes were horses then beggars would ride" to "Stop asking for stuff by saying you wish you could have it. That's no different than just asking for it." None of it works. Not surprisingly, since he's incredibly stubborn and has also perfected the art of selective hearing. It's also why I do my best to go to the store when he's in school.

And this is why DS gets allowance. We had the same problems beginning at age 8 and now at 14, I am so glad I did that. He has to do a few more chores, is prohibited from whining about chores, bedtimes or homework, and has to donate 10% to charity and put 10% in his savings account. He has gotten much better at saving his money for big ticket items.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: MindsEye on December 14, 2012, 08:46:44 AM

You had one of those too?

I think that at least half of my friends, male and female, have had one of "those" at some point in their dating lives...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 14, 2012, 12:03:33 PM

You had one of those too?

I think that at least half of my friends, male and female, have had one of "those" at some point in their dating lives...

I think everyone has one of those.  I'm still embarrassed that I had like ten of "those" in a row. 

The confusing thing is that they'd mix, "I'm not good enough for you" with, "Well where do you think you'll ever find someone else who loves me as much as I do?"  It took me a few times to realize that was a PA way of them debasing me and aggrandizing themselves.  That one sentence does it all: 1) They are so awesome that their love is special, unique and the regard of mere mortals will never come close and 2) I should be grateful for it because no one else would be so kind. 

It's funny how PA sentences can look humble and earnest and really be full of snot.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: LazyDaisy on December 14, 2012, 12:51:09 PM

You had one of those too?

I think that at least half of my friends, male and female, have had one of "those" at some point in their dating lives...

I think everyone has one of those.  I'm still embarrassed that I had like ten of "those" in a row. 

The confusing thing is that they'd mix, "I'm not good enough for you" with, "Well where do you think you'll ever find someone else who loves me as much as I do?"  It took me a few times to realize that was a PA way of them debasing me and aggrandizing themselves.  That one sentence does it all: 1) They are so awesome that their love is special, unique and the regard of mere mortals will never come close and 2) I should be grateful for it because no one else would be so kind. 

It's funny how PA sentences can look humble and earnest and really be full of snot.
hehehehe Freudian slip? If the PA boyfriend is saying the quote, wouldn't he say "...who loves you as much as I do?" or did he really indicate he loves himself?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: nuit93 on December 14, 2012, 01:06:21 PM

You had one of those too?

I think that at least half of my friends, male and female, have had one of "those" at some point in their dating lives...

Mine would sometimes call me after I'd made plans to go out with some friends to see if I wanted to come over (we were both in college but were commuter students who lived at home) that night, when I told him I'd already made plans he'd go "oh, well, if that's what you'd rather do...". 

Um, yeah, since I made these plans a few days ago and you're just now getting around to inviting me over--yes, it's what I'd rather do.  Inviting him along with the friends wasn't an option since he never even tried to enjoy himself and later would say "well, I'm not used to being around younger people since most of my friends are older" (I was 20 and still hung out with a lot of the people I'd gone to community college with, so we were 18-20 and not old enough for the bar scene, he was 23 and most of his friends were his age or a bit older).

I get that there's some maturity differences between, say, 18 and 23, but his tone really bugged me.  It's also probably worth mentioning that the whole time we dated, I never met any of his friends that he talked about.  Apparently, whenever he got into a relationship, he would pretty much isolate himself and only spend time with his significant other or his immediate family (and expect that she would do the same). 

Yep, not happening.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 14, 2012, 01:08:26 PM

You had one of those too?

I think that at least half of my friends, male and female, have had one of "those" at some point in their dating lives...

I think everyone has one of those.  I'm still embarrassed that I had like ten of "those" in a row. 

The confusing thing is that they'd mix, "I'm not good enough for you" with, "Well where do you think you'll ever find someone else who loves me as much as I do?"  It took me a few times to realize that was a PA way of them debasing me and aggrandizing themselves.  That one sentence does it all: 1) They are so awesome that their love is special, unique and the regard of mere mortals will never come close and 2) I should be grateful for it because no one else would be so kind. 

It's funny how PA sentences can look humble and earnest and really be full of snot.
hehehehe Freudian slip? If the PA boyfriend is saying the quote, wouldn't he say "...who loves you as much as I do?" or did he really indicate he loves himself?

Yeah, oops.  I mean "Loves you as much as I do."  But yeah, I think that's what he meant.  LOL!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: FauxFoodist on December 14, 2012, 03:06:57 PM
On the 'I don't care' thing. When one person never chooses, even they honestly *don't* care, it can still be frustrating for the 'chooser'. I have had friendships like that, where the other person honestly never has a preference, or at least never expresses such. I still wish once in awhile I got to be the one who didn't have to choose! Even just me saying 'Do you want A or B' because I like both equally the other person could pick one or the other based on random chance if they want. ;)

I had a situation like this with a friend once (and he is the champion of the universe when it comes to being PA -- not this particular situation though).  He never never NEVER wanted to be the one to offer which restaurant to go to so I would list one after another, and he would keep vetoing them.  I once told him to make a choice, and he said he didn't know but he didn't like any of the options I offered so far (so it was MY responsibility to figure it out???).  One day, I really didn't care (because he'd also once said that I was always choosing the restaurant) so I said he could choose.  He kept trying to pry restaurant options out of me, but I kept telling him that any restaurant he selected was fine with me -- he just needed to pick one.  Would you believe he got huffy-puffy-foot-stomping mad at me?  Told me I was being "uncooperative" (because I was letting him make the decision all on his own for a change).  I think we might've ended up going nowhere that night.

Another time (years later so he really hadn't grown up at all), I was at his place, and he kept going on and on about how he was hungry (but he was making zero moves toward fixing himself anything).  I said nothing because I knew he was hinting at me cooking for him (because, normally, I would've offered to make him something -- however, that night, I really really REALLY didn't feel like cooking).  He kept this up for several minutes then finally fixed something for himself, huffing and puffing the entire time.  I played dumb like I didn't know what he wanted because I would've told him the truth had he asked me, "No, I don't feel like cooking for you tonight."  How stubborn am I?  I was really hungry (it was long past dinner time and neither of us had had dinner).  I knew if I got up to fix myself a snack, I would've had to fix him something, too (we were very close so helping myself to something in his kitchen wouldn't have been crossing boundaries).  I wasn't willing to serve him because he wanted it in order to assuage my hunger.  Someone could say I was being PA, but I was never asked directly to make him something so I certainly wasn't going to respond (and he would've lied if I asked, "Are you trying to hint that you want me to cook for you?" then would've continued to huff and puff).  He ended up having to fix himself something, fuming the entire time (never offered me anything or asked me if I wanted anything).  That was fine (I fixed myself something an hour or so after he was done eating).  The next day, things were back to normal (I offered to cook if I felt like it, and I love to cook so, almost any other time, it's not a problem -- just that particular night I didn't feel like cooking and didn't feel like being treated as an indentured servant by being forced to cook against my will).  He did have this really bad habit of not only taking me for granted but demonstrating how he does this in front of other people so that might explain why I really didn't feel like catering to him that night.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: EMuir on December 14, 2012, 03:39:16 PM
SoCalVal, I had a friend like that.  Except that she wouldn't say she didn't like the options, she'd say "Well that would be OK...." in a way that definitely implied it wasn't her first choice.  Then she would feel free to complain all through the meal or afterward that she wished we'd gone to XX place.  But of course she would never actually suggest that ahead of time.

Finally I just snapped one time and said "If you say going to this place is OK then it better really be OK or I'll never believe another word you say!" That jerked her out of her broken record routine and from then on we could actually decide on a restaurant. Maybe she didn't realize she was doing it too?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Winterlight on December 14, 2012, 07:12:17 PM
On the 'I don't care' thing. When one person never chooses, even they honestly *don't* care, it can still be frustrating for the 'chooser'. I have had friendships like that, where the other person honestly never has a preference, or at least never expresses such. I still wish once in awhile I got to be the one who didn't have to choose! Even just me saying 'Do you want A or B' because I like both equally the other person could pick one or the other based on random chance if they want. ;)

That irritates the heck out of me too. I end up feeling like I'm running the friendship.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 14, 2012, 08:03:05 PM
The same guy who whined about Pizza Hut, years earlier during college would do rude things like interrupt his girlfriend then say "How could you think I'm not interested in what you have to say?"

Um, cause you just talked over her, jumping in with something completely unrelated like you haven't even been listening to what she had to say? But he'd try to make her feel guilty for his rudeness.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Deetee on December 14, 2012, 09:13:07 PM
On the 'I don't care' thing. When one person never chooses, even they honestly *don't* care, it can still be frustrating for the 'chooser'. I have had friendships like that, where the other person honestly never has a preference, or at least never expresses such. I still wish once in awhile I got to be the one who didn't have to choose! Even just me saying 'Do you want A or B' because I like both equally the other person could pick one or the other based on random chance if they want. ;)

That irritates the heck out of me too. I end up feeling like I'm running the friendship.

Yup, it's like having a friendship with a puddle of quicksand. You throw out ideas, opinions suggestions and everything comes back as "I don't know" or "I don't care" or some variation. Eventually you feel like you a responsible for all the thought and effort and it's just not fun being friends with someone sho simply goes along with what you suggest every single time. It also makes the suggestee responsible for every event.

Now, I am not saying the OP is like this based on one unpleasant thing said by her friend. I'm really just talking about the general characteristic.

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: FauxFoodist on December 15, 2012, 12:56:07 AM
SoCalVal, I had a friend like that.  Except that she wouldn't say she didn't like the options, she'd say "Well that would be OK...." in a way that definitely implied it wasn't her first choice.  Then she would feel free to complain all through the meal or afterward that she wished we'd gone to XX place.  But of course she would never actually suggest that ahead of time.

Finally I just snapped one time and said "If you say going to this place is OK then it better really be OK or I'll never believe another word you say!" That jerked her out of her broken record routine and from then on we could actually decide on a restaurant. Maybe she didn't realize she was doing it too?

Nah, in his case, he just didn't want to make a decision (because I'm pretty sure I said something about ME always choosing so I was going to let him decide for a change).

There was something he did once that wasn't quite PA, but I think *I* might've reacted in a PA fashion in order to get my point across to him.  I used to always pick up the bill on his groceries when we were in the supermarket (don't ask why; it's a long story but I always figured that if I got in line behind him, he would reciprocate, I just never had been in line behind him at that point).  One day, I was in line behind him (and this was hundreds of dollars later) and had a ONE DOLLAR ITEM.  He put the divider down behind his stuff, and I was aghast.  I really couldn't believe that after all the times I paid for his stuff, he would begrudge me one freakin' dollar.  Yup, he sure did.  I asked him (after he put the divider down), "You're not going to pay for my udon noodles?"  He said, "Nope."  I might've even mentioned me always paying for HIS stuff, and he responded with "Well, I only feel like paying for my stuff."  Anyway, I thought, "Okay, we'll see about that next time."  So, the next time we were in the market, I got in line ahead of him and, for the first time ever with us, put the divider between my stuff and his.  He then asked, "Aren't you going to pay for my stuff?"  I then said, "The last time in the store, you wouldn't even pay for a one dollar packet of udon noodles so why should I pay for your stuff? and proceeded to only pay for my stuff."  He never did that to me again.  Guess it didn't feel very good to have the shoe on the other foot.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: bloo on December 15, 2012, 08:59:20 AM
On the 'I don't care' thing. When one person never chooses, even they honestly *don't* care, it can still be frustrating for the 'chooser'. I have had friendships like that, where the other person honestly never has a preference, or at least never expresses such. I still wish once in awhile I got to be the one who didn't have to choose! Even just me saying 'Do you want A or B' because I like both equally the other person could pick one or the other based on random chance if they want. ;)

I am the "I don't care" person. And when I say it, I really mean it. I some instances I might say, "I don't care but please no McDonalds today (or Cracker Barrell, Shoney's or Bob Evans - which I don't care for)."

I really am open to other people's suggestions and if it's a place I've never been then I always ask for a recommendation of a dish.

This thread reminds me of when a bunch of us went to Cracker Barrell and I complained about the choice which was met with "You hate Cracker Barrell?!" Gasp. I confirmed that I didn't care for it but everyone else looked so dissappointed that I said, "If everyone wants to go, we can go. Help me find something on the menu I might like since I haven't yet." All my friends REALLY love Cracker Barrell because they got really excited. I settled on one of their dinner salads, which are - in fact - good. And the couple more times I've been dragged there since then I always order from that selection and keep my lip buttoned about my dislike for the restaurant. My kids fell in love with the restaurant since they were with me and I am pleased that they enjoy themselves which makes it worth the experience for me.

Sidenote: I LOVE their little shop, though. Always fun to browse.

But the above quote is helpful to me to be more mindful of trying to take the lead once in a while in picking an option. Thanks.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on December 15, 2012, 09:41:12 AM
In my case, I am the one picking the dinner menu all the time (since I'm the cook).  Sometimes, I like to be surprised.  :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Thipu1 on December 15, 2012, 09:46:22 AM
I must admit that I do the 'I don't care' bit more than I should. 

If I feel strongly about something I want or don't want, I'll speak up.  Otherwise, I let Mr. Thipu decide.  He's much more particular about his food than I am.  If he wants German or sushi for lunch, that's what it will be. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on December 15, 2012, 09:51:51 AM
With my ex, I finally started asking for a list of things he didn't want, because he'd always do the "Whatever, anything is fine" thing and then sulk through the meal because I'd magically picked the one thing he secretly didn't want.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: RegionMom on December 15, 2012, 12:31:17 PM
My DH and his college roommate came up with a rule years ago-
If the first suggestion for a restaurant is rejected, then the rejector must come up with another suggestion.  Game continues until agreement is reached.

DH and I now do the same  with our kids, with "The Golden Rule" invoked if necessary-
He who owns the gold (money) makes the rules (and thus ultimately chooses)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BB-VA on December 15, 2012, 12:38:05 PM
I have to admit I am one of those "I don't care" people myself.   What I am in the mood for can change by location. 

That said, if I ever DO open a restaurant (which I won't because I would end up meeting with Robert Irvine or yelled at by Gordon Ramsay), it will be called "I Don't Care".  Business should be AWESOME!!

At least it might settle a few arguments...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sophia on December 15, 2012, 01:20:24 PM
I have to admit I am one of those "I don't care" people myself.   What I am in the mood for can change by location...

I am the same way.  My friends know that I can't find anything to eat in a Thai restaurant, and I'm not that thrilled about Vietnamese.  But, otherwise I happily and genuinely agree to just about anywhere.  If I do reject one (rarely), I will then come up with 2 or 3 suggestions.  Or, if my friend is getting annoyed with me.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on December 15, 2012, 03:17:27 PM
I'll admit, I can become an "I don't care" person if dinner gets postponed long enough that I'm ravenous and reach the point where I just want some fuel to put into my body, darnit! And then people don't believe me when I say that everything genuinely sounds good, though I know why.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Deetee on December 15, 2012, 03:25:37 PM
There is a huge difference between "That sounds goods. Italian, Chinese, or Thai. Anything sounds fantastic" and "I don't care".

My reply when I don't care is "Food, preferably cooked or at least moving slowly"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JennJenn68 on December 15, 2012, 06:23:15 PM
I'm not sure if this qualifies as PA or simply "what the heck?"???

My mother-in-law is famous for her constantly changing food fetishes.  Doughnuts one day; carbs are evil the day after that; "must have pasta" the next time; "I can't eat soy"; "Oh, I ONLY eat soy..."  The list goes on and on.  We've gotten used to just rolling with it because generally she gives us a reason that makes some kind of sense at the time, and she gives us some warning.  I hold my breath when I invite her for dinner but there is generally something that she can eat.

And then last Sunday, I invited the whole family over for dinner--nine people in total.  We were putting up Christmas decorations and generally indulging in family fellowship.  I said, when I invited everyone, "I'm going to order in pizza for dinner.  Is everyone okay with that?"  Everyone was, including MIL.  In fact, she made a point of saying that she would enjoy it.  (This was a week previously.)  The time came last week when it was time to order dinner, because the kids were getting hungry.  And THAT'S when MIL piped up, "Oh, by the way, I've decided to go gluten-free and lactose-free for a couple of weeks.  I just felt like it.  No, I'm not allergic.  That won't be a problem, will it?"

Yeah.  On pizza.  You know, the stuff that is made with a gluten-based crust and with cheese pretty much standard.  Oh, yeah, that'll work.  And the place in question that I order from does in fact have a gluten-free crust available, but it tastes like cardboard.  (I tried it one time, out of curiosity.  Yuck.)  I said (and I hope that my gritted teeth didn't show), "Actually, yeah, that's kind of problematic.  It's pizza.  By definition, it includes gluten and lactose products.  What would you like me to do about it?  Shall I order one with a gluten-free crust?  I warn you, it's not something I regard as a taste explosion..."  And her answer?  "Oh, don't worry about me.  I'll just sit here and watch the rest of you eat.  I'm sure I'll be all right.  Even though I'm kind of hungry right now..."

I don't react well to PA behaviour--as the thread title implies, I give the PA person what he/she "wants".  I ordered everything the way she said.  (I did offer the gluten-free option again.  She declined, in the same PA pathetic way.)  And she sat there and watched us eat, making little digs about how she hoped we were enjoying the pizza, and oh, by the way, would I be angry if she helped herself to a clementine orange?  Of course not, I answered.  "I just wanted to make sure," she responds in a way that makes it clear that I am some sort of monster who would probably begrudge her a single orange.  Ye gods.

Who does this?  Who accepts an invitation a week before to a specific-food dinner and then insists that she cannot possibly eat the food in question--but doesn't bother to let the hostess know until it's time to order?  Argh!!!  And apart from these bizarre food quirks, she's an absolute gem of a mother-in-law.  I wouldn't trade her for the world... even when she pulls this nonsense! 

I'll quit ranting now.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Emmy on December 15, 2012, 06:36:22 PM
There is a huge difference between "That sounds goods. Italian, Chinese, or Thai. Anything sounds fantastic" and "I don't care".

My reply when I don't care is "Food, preferably cooked or at least moving slowly"

I agree.  "I don't care" seems to have a negative connotation and would be grating to me if it was the answer to every.single.question about preference.  Something like "Anything sounds good to me tonight" just sounds a lot more positive.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Bethalize on December 16, 2012, 07:38:47 AM
People who say "I don't care" don't care up until the point you choose something which is too expensive/limited/spicy for them. THEN they care  ::)

I prefer it when people say "I don't mind".
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Pen^2 on December 16, 2012, 08:02:46 AM
I respond to, "I don't care," with, "well, since you're so uninterested, we won't worry about it. Moving on..." and just don't give them any of what they were asked to choose from. They usually quite quickly say which they prefer after that.

I was taught at school that refusing to make a decision makes things harder for your host, and throws their attempted kindness back in their face. If you really don't mind and all things being equal, it's best to just choose something anyway. I've always liked this advice.

My favourite PA people are those who moan, "oh, I'm getting so overweight, look how fat I am..." to which I also always agree enthusiastically. "Oh yes, why, I never noticed it until you pointed it out. Good gosh, look at your chins! I was sure there were only two last week!", with varying degrees of sincerity. Works well for grey hair and wrinkles, too. If I'm going to compliment you, I'll compliment you. Don't demand I do it (thus invalidating any compliment as not genuine anyway), and don't be all "woe is me" about it, or I'm just going to agree.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 16, 2012, 09:28:46 AM
^^^  I don't know.  I laugh about my gray hairs and my wrinkles.  I'm not fishing for a compliment, just commenting on the inevitability of getting older. 

I think if I joked about my wrinkles and someone said "Why yes.  You really do look like a very old elephant!" I might be offended.  Or maybe not.  Maybe it would depend on who said it and the way they said it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Adelaide on December 16, 2012, 11:51:04 AM
People who say "I don't care" don't care up until the point you choose something which is too expensive/limited/spicy for them. THEN they care  ::)

I prefer it when people say "I don't mind".

One of my friends does this all the time. Whenever we're together she'll make me pick where we go and say "I don't care". One day I had finally had enough and went down the list of places I knew she hated, starting with a) too expensive b) too exotic (Laotian food) c) tiny portions and d) too greasy.

Now, when she invites me over, instead of saying "You pick, I don't care" she always opens with a couple of choices of her own. :D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Allyson on December 16, 2012, 12:43:34 PM
I think that some people don't understand that having to be the person who always picks can be a pain sometimes. I'm pretty sure that most non-PA people who do the 'I don't care/why don't you pick/anything is fine' genuinely don't have a strong preference, and they think they are being accomodating and excellent dinner companions by allowing the other person to have their first choice.

I often end up letting the other person choose when I go out to dinner with certain people but that's because they have lots of allergies/restrictions and I genuinely can find something I like anywhere. Still, my favourite way to go about choosing is 'one person gives 3 options, the other chooses 1'.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 16, 2012, 01:10:36 PM
DH and I do the "I don't care" (me) and "Here's an endless list of options but I won't commit to one" (him) thing. It isn't PA on either part, just a general lack of wanting to choose. I devised a way to solve the issue - DH narrows it down to three places he'd definitely be willing to go to and I choose one of those. Works every time.  :D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on December 16, 2012, 01:20:42 PM
I often end up letting the other person choose when I go out to dinner with certain people but that's because they have lots of allergies/restrictions and I genuinely can find something I like anywhere.

Yeah, I have one friend to whom I just say bluntly, "you pick because you're pickier." She has a long list of restrictions on top of being a picky eater generally, and she's also not polite about it--she doesn't just say "(Restaurant) won't work because I'm allergic to everything there/don't like it," she goes "EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" and makes the other person feel like a piece of scum for even suggesting it. (She does have other redeeming qualities, else we would not still be friends.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Layla Miller on December 16, 2012, 01:43:10 PM
Oh my goodness, DH and I do the "I don't care; you pick" dance all the time.  We generally settle things by having one of us narrow the options down to two and the other choosing one.  It's saved us many, many headaches.

My FIL does the PA thing a lot.  Trouble is, giving him what he "wants" doesn't work because what he really wants is to be a martyr.  So by taking him up on his "Don't mind me" stuff, he gets to feel self-sacrificing.  Overall this isn't too bad, though, because he's not one to rub it in--if that makes sense.  (He has PA tendencies, but is otherwise a decent guy.)  So everyone's technically happy.  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: jedikaiti on December 16, 2012, 02:45:20 PM
DF & I do the "I don't know" dance with alarming frequency - usually neither of us knows what we WANT, just what we don't want. ("I don't want Thai, we've had that 3 times this week.") Or we don't have a clue either way until one of us comes up with an idea and the lightbulb goes off - "Oh! That does sound good!" The problem comes when both of us are having an indecisive time at the same time.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: kherbert05 on December 16, 2012, 03:14:18 PM
I often end up letting the other person choose when I go out to dinner with certain people but that's because they have lots of allergies/restrictions and I genuinely can find something I like anywhere.

Yeah, I have one friend to whom I just say bluntly, "you pick because you're pickier." She has a long list of restrictions on top of being a picky eater generally, and she's also not polite about it--she doesn't just say "(Restaurant) won't work because I'm allergic to everything there/don't like it," she goes "EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" and makes the other person feel like a piece of scum for even suggesting it. (She does have other redeeming qualities, else we would not still be friends.)


I try to be as polite as possible. If a group of us is getting together I'll joke about my "5 no goes" (Local restaurants that use peanut oil). If someone insists they are craving 5 guys or something. I tell them I'll just meet you at event and go get something I can eat.


The only time I get ticked off is if I'm told we are going to Y, but we get in the car and are on the freeway. Then I'm told we are actually going to X and I can deal. This is especially true for a couple of restaurants that say they don't use peanut oil or their peanut oil is so "pure" you can't react. Except I've landed in the ER from eating their food. There are people that I will NOT drive with for exactly this reason.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: alkira6 on December 16, 2012, 04:54:33 PM

I try to be as polite as possible. If a group of us is getting together I'll joke about my "5 no goes" (Local restaurants that use peanut oil). If someone insists they are craving 5 guys or something. I tell them I'll just meet you at event and go get something I can eat.


The only time I get ticked off is if I'm told we are going to Y, but we get in the car and are on the freeway. Then I'm told we are actually going to X and I can deal. This is especially true for a couple of restaurants that say they don't use peanut oil or their peanut oil is so "pure" you can't react. Except I've landed in the ER from eating their food. There are people that I will NOT drive with for exactly this reason.

These people must have some really saintly other qualities for you to still be friends with them. Hijacking you and insisting you go somewhere that they know will make you sick? - not friend material to me.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: kherbert05 on December 16, 2012, 05:41:56 PM

I try to be as polite as possible. If a group of us is getting together I'll joke about my "5 no goes" (Local restaurants that use peanut oil). If someone insists they are craving 5 guys or something. I tell them I'll just meet you at event and go get something I can eat.


The only time I get ticked off is if I'm told we are going to Y, but we get in the car and are on the freeway. Then I'm told we are actually going to X and I can deal. This is especially true for a couple of restaurants that say they don't use peanut oil or their peanut oil is so "pure" you can't react. Except I've landed in the ER from eating their food. There are people that I will NOT drive with for exactly this reason.

These people must have some really saintly other qualities for you to still be friends with them. Hijacking you and insisting you go somewhere that they know will make you sick? - not friend material to me.
Not friends - coworkers and the administration demands we carpool to an inservice. I put my foot down a few years ago - I drive myself period end of subject.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: mmswm on December 16, 2012, 11:35:55 PM
I often end up letting the other person choose when I go out to dinner with certain people but that's because they have lots of allergies/restrictions and I genuinely can find something I like anywhere.

Yeah, I have one friend to whom I just say bluntly, "you pick because you're pickier." She has a long list of restrictions on top of being a picky eater generally, and she's also not polite about it--she doesn't just say "(Restaurant) won't work because I'm allergic to everything there/don't like it," she goes "EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" and makes the other person feel like a piece of scum for even suggesting it. (She does have other redeeming qualities, else we would not still be friends.)


I try to be as polite as possible. If a group of us is getting together I'll joke about my "5 no goes" (Local restaurants that use peanut oil). If someone insists they are craving 5 guys or something. I tell them I'll just meet you at event and go get something I can eat.


The only time I get ticked off is if I'm told we are going to Y, but we get in the car and are on the freeway. Then I'm told we are actually going to X and I can deal. This is especially true for a couple of restaurants that say they don't use peanut oil or their peanut oil is so "pure" you can't react. Except I've landed in the ER from eating their food. There are people that I will NOT drive with for exactly this reason.

I'm usually an "I don't care, except..." person.  I have a severe tomato allergy and have landed in the ER a couple times myself.  I generally do the "here are a handful of places I know are safe, you pick" routine.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: mbbored on December 17, 2012, 11:09:28 AM
There is a huge difference between "That sounds goods. Italian, Chinese, or Thai. Anything sounds fantastic" and "I don't care".

My reply when I don't care is "Food, preferably cooked or at least moving slowly"

When I'm going out with a friends and nobody expresses a strong preference, I throw out three types of cuisine "Burgers, Mexican or Thai?" and consistently somebody picks a category and we go from there. It also works well when trying to pick out a movie "Rom-com, thriller or drama?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 17, 2012, 11:14:44 AM
I (and some friends) are in the category where we do care but we just care less than other people.  So when we say, "Let's grab some dinner." we are used to others saying, "Oh we HAVE to go to X! I've been craving their chicken!  Please let's go to X."  I can pretty much find something I like anywhere and I'm not allergic to anything.  So I will defer to their preferences since I am never really set on one place. 

The problem is that when I get together with one of my less concerned friends, we NEVER can pick anything.  For one friend in particular, we have a list of ten good restaurants in the area and roll one of my old D&D dice.  She keeps saying she is going to make a smart phone app that picks a random restaurant based on location (and will take some customized parameters for the choice.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 17, 2012, 11:16:05 AM
My dad used to tell my mother "I'll eat whatever you're cooking" and then he'd complain when she got creative (which in her defense it always turned out amazing).

When DH and I are deciding, often we'll say "I'm in the mood for anything but ____" course that creates a problem when I'm in the mood for pizza and he says anything but pizza, or I say I'm in the mood for anything but Chinese and that's what he wants.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: clio917 on December 17, 2012, 11:29:32 AM
She keeps saying she is going to make a smart phone app that picks a random restaurant based on location (and will take some customized parameters for the choice.)

Have you checked out Urbanspoon? You give it price and category parameters (Italian, Chinese etc) and shake it for a random selection based on your location. I know it is in the Apple App Store, not sure about Android. I also don't know how good the restaurant selection is outside of urban areas. (Threadjack over...)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jocelyn on December 17, 2012, 11:55:47 AM
He did get a Kindle Fire by saving up his money (we paid for half), but this is mostly stuff like Pop-Tarts and ice cream, with the occasional Nerf gun thrown in. I don't mind stuff like that once in a while, but if I let on that he could just buy them with his own money he'd never eat anything else!
Next birthday, wrap him up a box of Pop-Tarts and when he opens it, amazed to discover it is NOT the gift of his dreams, reply, 'You asked for it so often, and so piteously, I thought it would be what you really wanted for your birthday!'   
Oh, wait, that would be passive aggressive.
 >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Tea Drinker on December 17, 2012, 03:12:43 PM
He did get a Kindle Fire by saving up his money (we paid for half), but this is mostly stuff like Pop-Tarts and ice cream, with the occasional Nerf gun thrown in. I don't mind stuff like that once in a while, but if I let on that he could just buy them with his own money he'd never eat anything else!
Next birthday, wrap him up a box of Pop-Tarts and when he opens it, amazed to discover it is NOT the gift of his dreams, reply, 'You asked for it so often, and so piteously, I thought it would be what you really wanted for your birthday!'   
Oh, wait, that would be passive aggressive.
 >:D

That would be PA, but giving him a wrapped box of Pop-Tarts along with a larger, more appropriate birthday gift might be fun.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 17, 2012, 05:56:41 PM
She keeps saying she is going to make a smart phone app that picks a random restaurant based on location (and will take some customized parameters for the choice.)

Have you checked out Urbanspoon? You give it price and category parameters (Italian, Chinese etc) and shake it for a random selection based on your location. I know it is in the Apple App Store, not sure about Android. I also don't know how good the restaurant selection is outside of urban areas. (Threadjack over...)

Thanks!  I haven't seen that.  (But neither of us have an apple product so maybe that's why.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: WillyNilly on December 17, 2012, 06:59:37 PM
She keeps saying she is going to make a smart phone app that picks a random restaurant based on location (and will take some customized parameters for the choice.)

Have you checked out Urbanspoon? You give it price and category parameters (Italian, Chinese etc) and shake it for a random selection based on your location. I know it is in the Apple App Store, not sure about Android. I also don't know how good the restaurant selection is outside of urban areas. (Threadjack over...)

Thanks!  I haven't seen that.  (But neither of us have an apple product so maybe that's why.)

Sometimes I use OpenTable like that - I sort by location & price and then just pick.  Yelp too.  I have apps for each on my 'droid.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: GratefulMaria on December 18, 2012, 07:42:58 AM
What a timely thread!  Just got off the phone with my 82 y.o. mother and sent her off to her annual-physical-cum-flu-shot.  We live in the same city, so I'll often give her rides when she sees a specialist or the weather's bad, etc.  We got a bit of a snow/rain/ice combo yesterday and a relatively warm rain today.  This week is insanely busy for me, so I told her I'd be able to give her a ride but only if the roads were slick.  She spent the last few days agonizing over the forecast and talking about not being able to drive, and what combination of temp and precip would be dangerous in what way, really worrying the bone.  I just nodded, smiled, and repeated my parameters for the conditions in which I'd clear my decks and get here there.  At which point she sighed, metaphorically let her legs go limp in the checkout line, and said, "I think I'll just reschedule for the spring. [quivering pause] And skip my flu shot."  I pleasantly replied, "You do what you feel you need to do."

She did keep her appointment, after listening to the weather this morning, talking with me, and hearing a report DH gave me (he drove through her neighborhood to get to work) that the roads were wet but fine.  After a very dubious, "Well, all right then . . . " she was on her way.  I tell myself it must be just as exhausting to be her as it can sometimes be around her.   :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on December 18, 2012, 08:18:29 AM
You may have seen my thread in the Hugs folder, where I said DH and I were thinking of skipping family Christmas this year due to drama between my mother and father, who have been separated for quite a while now. We decided we would go, mostly because my sister just bought a house and really is looking forward to hosting for the first time.

I found out a couple days ago that we are now doing Christmas with my mom at her house, because it's going to be her "laaaaaast year in her house." She's pulling the "last Christmas" stunt...with a house. I dread to think what this is going to be like once she actually starts reaching a more elderly age.  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: mbbored on December 18, 2012, 10:09:31 AM
He did get a Kindle Fire by saving up his money (we paid for half), but this is mostly stuff like Pop-Tarts and ice cream, with the occasional Nerf gun thrown in. I don't mind stuff like that once in a while, but if I let on that he could just buy them with his own money he'd never eat anything else!
Next birthday, wrap him up a box of Pop-Tarts and when he opens it, amazed to discover it is NOT the gift of his dreams, reply, 'You asked for it so often, and so piteously, I thought it would be what you really wanted for your birthday!'   
Oh, wait, that would be passive aggressive.
 >:D

That would be PA, but giving him a wrapped box of Pop-Tarts along with a larger, more appropriate birthday gift might be fun.

One year for Christmas my nephew received in his stocking a box of Ritz crackers and a pack of McDonald's gift certificates since he always asked for "real crackers" (as opposed to the whole grain, seedy variety my sister bought) and daily asked for a milkshake from the McDonald's they passed on the way back from school.

Nephew was THRILLED.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ica171 on December 18, 2012, 10:16:33 AM
He did get a Kindle Fire by saving up his money (we paid for half), but this is mostly stuff like Pop-Tarts and ice cream, with the occasional Nerf gun thrown in. I don't mind stuff like that once in a while, but if I let on that he could just buy them with his own money he'd never eat anything else!
Next birthday, wrap him up a box of Pop-Tarts and when he opens it, amazed to discover it is NOT the gift of his dreams, reply, 'You asked for it so often, and so piteously, I thought it would be what you really wanted for your birthday!'   
Oh, wait, that would be passive aggressive.
 >:D

That would be PA, but giving him a wrapped box of Pop-Tarts along with a larger, more appropriate birthday gift might be fun.

One year for Christmas my nephew received in his stocking a box of Ritz crackers and a pack of McDonald's gift certificates since he always asked for "real crackers" (as opposed to the whole grain, seedy variety my sister bought) and daily asked for a milkshake from the McDonald's they passed on the way back from school.

Nephew was THRILLED.

He would actually love to get Pop Tarts as a gift. Pop Tarts, hot cocoa mix, cookies, candy--basically any type of junk food. In fact, he might not mind getting only junk food for his birthday, as he constantly tells me that he's a "junk food addict" and just can't help not liking vegetables.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sophia on December 18, 2012, 10:29:01 AM
...One year for Christmas my nephew received in his stocking a box of Ritz crackers and a pack of McDonald's gift certificates since he always asked for "real crackers" (as opposed to the whole grain, seedy variety my sister bought) and daily asked for a milkshake from the McDonald's they passed on the way back from school.

Nephew was THRILLED.

My parents gave me a large jar of Grape jelly when I moved out of their house. 
They had banned group jelly from the house when I was 9 or 10.  I would make myself a PB&J, with a LOT of J.  Then I would walk around the house.  One week mom and dad found Jelly on the ironing board and remote control, therefore the banning.  (I don't blame them)
Dad thought he was being evil PA, but I loved it. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Thipu1 on December 19, 2012, 08:17:31 AM
Whenever he was asked what he wanted for any gift occasion, my father would always say, 'Bull---- and honey'.

One Father's Day, my mother and I decided to make his wish come true and we weren't being PA about it, well not much.

Dad was an avid gardener so a 50 pound bag of denatured cow manure was a useful and appreciated gift.  He also liked honey on his toast so a big jar of premium honey also got put to good use.  He enjoyed both the gifts and the joke. 

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: RingTailedLemur on December 19, 2012, 08:23:11 AM
Dad was an avid gardener so a 50 pound bag of denatured cow manure was a useful and appreciated gift.  He also liked honey on his toast so a big jar of premium honey also got put to good use.  He enjoyed both the gifts and the joke.

Don't get those two things mixed up....
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on December 19, 2012, 09:24:03 AM
Dad was an avid gardener so a 50 pound bag of denatured cow manure was a useful and appreciated gift.  He also liked honey on his toast so a big jar of premium honey also got put to good use.  He enjoyed both the gifts and the joke.

Don't get those two things mixed up....

No kidding!
Honey makes *lousy* fertilizer.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 19, 2012, 10:38:37 AM
Dad was an avid gardener so a 50 pound bag of denatured cow manure was a useful and appreciated gift.  He also liked honey on his toast so a big jar of premium honey also got put to good use.  He enjoyed both the gifts and the joke.

Don't get those two things mixed up....

No kidding!
Honey makes *lousy* fertilizer.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Otterpop on December 19, 2012, 11:52:50 AM
My cantankerous grandma re-gifts everything we give her.  Last year it was Keurig coffee maker she gave to a friend!!!  This year we gave her only consumable items like biscotti, teas, olives and salami on a pretty inlaid tray.

What did she comment?  "What am I going to do with this tray?"  Ummm...how about, serve food on it?   ::)   Seriously, only gift cards from now on...or maybe only a card...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 19, 2012, 12:03:20 PM
My cantankerous grandma re-gifts everything we give her.  Last year it was Keurig coffee maker she gave to a friend!!!  This year we gave her only consumable items like biscotti, teas, olives and salami on a pretty inlaid tray.

What did she comment?  "What am I going to do with this tray?"  Ummm...how about, serve food on it?   ::)   Seriously, only gift cards from now on...or maybe only a card...

Or maybe you should call her up and say "Gran, we want to give you a lovely Thingamajig for Christmas this year. Which of your lucky friends shall we forward it to?"  >:D

Okay so I'm joking, but it's fun to think about, eh?!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Otterpop on December 19, 2012, 12:11:26 PM
My cantankerous grandma re-gifts everything we give her.  Last year it was Keurig coffee maker she gave to a friend!!!  This year we gave her only consumable items like biscotti, teas, olives and salami on a pretty inlaid tray.

What did she comment?  "What am I going to do with this tray?"  Ummm...how about, serve food on it?   ::)   Seriously, only gift cards from now on...or maybe only a card...

Or maybe you should call her up and say "Gran, we want to give you a lovely Thingamajig for Christmas this year. Which of your lucky friends shall we forward it to?"  >:D

Okay so I'm joking, but it's fun to think about, eh?!

Ha, ha!  Very tempting...   >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ladyknight1 on December 19, 2012, 02:06:10 PM
And that is why we no longer give gifts to people older than 18, unless it is work (or a social club) related. My family members have everything they could possibly need, and I was tired of seeing gifts re-gifted or unused for years. Certain people would even take their partner's gifts and use them!

We had tasteful photo books made for the grandparents and one aunt. Everyone else got a card and picture of DS.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: oz diva on December 19, 2012, 03:37:52 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D
Or glance at your watch.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 19, 2012, 04:04:43 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D
Or glance at your watch.

 :) :D ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on December 19, 2012, 05:18:25 PM
^^^  Ah!  Well, in that case weren't you ever tempted (as a child of course, before Ehell affiliation) to respond to her like this?

Grandma:  *sigh*  "Now is the time for me to die."
You:  "Okay."

 >:D
Or glance at your watch.

 :) :D ;D

I can just see myself brightly announcing: "9:43 it is then!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jelaza on December 19, 2012, 07:12:16 PM
Better yet: "9:43?  I win the betting pool!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jocelyn on December 19, 2012, 10:57:25 PM
  Certain people would even take their partner's gifts and use them!
 

Hmm...I guess I don't see what's wrong about that. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: MariaE on December 20, 2012, 02:12:35 AM
  Certain people would even take their partner's gifts and use them!
 

Hmm...I guess I don't see what's wrong about that.

Nope, me neither. DH and I use each others' gifts all the time.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: CrochetFanatic on December 20, 2012, 04:56:47 AM
As long as the other person is okay with it, I don't really see the problem either.  :)  Or an appliance that belongs to one person, but everyone uses.

Back in High School, I had a couple "friends" who acted PA when I wouldn't let them mooch off of me.  It was sort of my own fault, because I got into the habit of saying yes when I was asked if they could have something, if I could pay for something, or if they could borrow something.  I'll admit that it wasn't because I was particularly generous; I didn't like being bugged when I said no, nor did I like being called mean and greedy behind my back just because I didn't want to share what I had.  I went without lunch a couple times when a "friend" said that she didn't have money for lunch, and I found out that she just wanted to save up the lunch money that her parents gave her so that she would have more spending money.  She admitted this when I spotted her putting a dollar in the snack machine (lunch is more than a dollar, and she wanted a candy bar.  ::) ).  Um, no.  I need to eat too, and I'm not going without lunch just because you're saving up for a new purse. 

The next time she asked me for some "spare change", I said no.  She said, "Ugh, fine...I guess I'll start going without lunch myself, then."  I said, "Whatever makes you happy."  She went on a rant about how she "needed" the new purse, how I couldn't possibly understand because I don't pay attention to fashion, and that it wouldn't hurt me to go without lunch because I could stand to lose a few pounds.  Hahaha...not the way to get on my good side.  It was an automatic no after that, and I was badmouthed for a week or so before it died down.  I lost a "friend", and gained some self respect.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ladyknight1 on December 20, 2012, 09:56:51 AM
  Certain people would even take their partner's gifts and use them!
 

Hmm...I guess I don't see what's wrong about that.

Give someone a gift card and their partner another gift card, and while one is away, the partner takes both gift cards and uses them. Repeated behavior. I no longer give them gift cards.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 20, 2012, 10:24:40 AM
Quote
how I couldn't possibly understand because I don't pay attention to fashion, and that it wouldn't hurt me to go without lunch because I could stand to lose a few pounds. 

Wow.   :o  I'd be tempted to quote Diane Chambers at that point:  "Now that you've finished buttering me up ..."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Emmy on December 20, 2012, 11:46:59 AM
As long as the other person is okay with it, I don't really see the problem either.  :)  Or an appliance that belongs to one person, but everyone uses.

Back in High School, I had a couple "friends" who acted PA when I wouldn't let them mooch off of me.  It was sort of my own fault, because I got into the habit of saying yes when I was asked if they could have something, if I could pay for something, or if they could borrow something.  I'll admit that it wasn't because I was particularly generous; I didn't like being bugged when I said no, nor did I like being called mean and greedy behind my back just because I didn't want to share what I had.  I went without lunch a couple times when a "friend" said that she didn't have money for lunch, and I found out that she just wanted to save up the lunch money that her parents gave her so that she would have more spending money.  She admitted this when I spotted her putting a dollar in the snack machine (lunch is more than a dollar, and she wanted a candy bar.  ::) ).  Um, no.  I need to eat too, and I'm not going without lunch just because you're saving up for a new purse. 

The next time she asked me for some "spare change", I said no.  She said, "Ugh, fine...I guess I'll start going without lunch myself, then."  I said, "Whatever makes you happy."  She went on a rant about how she "needed" the new purse, how I couldn't possibly understand because I don't pay attention to fashion, and that it wouldn't hurt me to go without lunch because I could stand to lose a few pounds.  Hahaha...not the way to get on my good side.  It was an automatic no after that, and I was badmouthed for a week or so before it died down.  I lost a "friend", and gained some self respect.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.  If she would just totally die without the purse, she could give up her lunches and snacks for it. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 20, 2012, 12:50:55 PM
This is making me glad that DH is a good gift giver.  MIL will ask me what I want if she's not sure and gets it right.  My mother on the other hand was always having to exchange things for what she really wanted cause while dad came close, he always got her a version he thought she wanted.  I think he did this to all of us really.   I was, as a present, told I could pick something out to bring with me and I said I wanted just a little cd player to take with me, one that was easily transported and could play cassettes and radio too, and wouldn't take up much room since I knew the dorm rooms would be small. 

I instead got this stereo system that was decidedly NOT portable and was not small.  It didn't take up a whole room or anything but it was heavy, had two stereos that would attach to the main part of it.  But it did have the ability to play cd's, tapes and the radio.   It took up most of the top of my dresser though.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Celany on December 20, 2012, 03:58:51 PM
My biggest one was with my mom. I do love my mom, but she has a lot of mental problems, and can be the Queen of PA and will be extremely controlling, if you give her that option.

When I was in college, she used to call me and leave messages on my answering machine all day (this was pre-cell phone days). As I wasn't returning her calls (because I was at class, then lunch, then class, then theater, then the gym, before going home), each message would get more & more irate. She would demand that I come back to my room just to check for messages and call her to confirm that I was still alive. I refused to do this, because it would have been close to impossible, with my schedule. Not to mention the part where it was a ridiculous request.

As this escalated, she started ending her calls by threatening to disown me, because I was such a terrible daughter (side note: I hope you believe that I'm not exaggerating here. She was literally this upset that I wouldn't call her several times a day to confirm that I was still alive, and tell her about my day. Which was remarkable, because when I lived at home, she used to ignore me quite a bit.). Finally, one day, I called her bluff. I said: Fine. Disown me. If that means I don't have to listen to you screaming at my anymore, then that works for me. I'll figure money out of my own, & that'll be that. Then I hung up the phone, gently.

This was probably in late October or early November. I didn't go home for Thanksgiving (I went to see my BF's family). I didn't go home for Christmas (I stayed with friends).

Finally, around Easter, my aunt called me & said my mom was going to call me. Seems that my dad told my mom that she would either fix this or he'd divorce her. My dad is one of the most mild-mannered people in the world, and he has *never* given my mom an ultimatum before. And my mom is of a religion that really frowns upon divorce, so she buckled. Although, her buckling was calling me and asking what I wanted in my Easter basket; she never acknowledged her bad behavior.

Since then, while she does off & on have bad behavior (she's a "give her an inch, she'll take a mile" kind of person), she's never gotten as bad as she was then. Because she knows if she goes beyond a certain point, I WILL call her on it, & my dad WILL back me up.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jocelyn on December 20, 2012, 05:21:51 PM
  Certain people would even take their partner's gifts and use them!
 

Hmm...I guess I don't see what's wrong about that.

Give someone a gift card and their partner another gift card, and while one is away, the partner takes both gift cards and uses them. Repeated behavior. I no longer give them gift cards.
Again, I see that as something that's a matter between the couple. Last year, my nephew and his wife were gifted with a quantity of gift cards...they decided that rather than jointly deciding on what to buy, each would take the cards gifted by their own relatives. If he wants to trade his half of the department store card to her for her half of the Amazon.com card,  it seems reasonable to me. If a person is telling others that their spouse took his/her gift card without permission and used it, well...that's about like taking money out of your spouse's wallet without permission. Such a marriage seems to have way bigger problems that just the etiquette of gifting.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on December 20, 2012, 07:15:45 PM
  Certain people would even take their partner's gifts and use them!
 

Hmm...I guess I don't see what's wrong about that.

Give someone a gift card and their partner another gift card, and while one is away, the partner takes both gift cards and uses them. Repeated behavior. I no longer give them gift cards.
Again, I see that as something that's a matter between the couple. Last year, my nephew and his wife were gifted with a quantity of gift cards...they decided that rather than jointly deciding on what to buy, each would take the cards gifted by their own relatives. If he wants to trade his half of the department store card to her for her half of the Amazon.com card,  it seems reasonable to me. If a person is telling others that their spouse took his/her gift card without permission and used it, well...that's about like taking money out of your spouse's wallet without permission. Such a marriage seems to have way bigger problems that just the etiquette of gifting.

Yeah...if they're using each other's GCs without permission, that's a marital issue.

But if they're doing it with permission, I don't see it as a big deal. My ex used to get all these Barnes and Noble cards. It was a logical guess, as he's a smart guy who likes to read. But for various reasons, he doesn't actually like Barnes and Noble and rarely shopped there. He'd give them to me. It was a win/win--the card got used, I got books, and he benefited from me not tapping into the general "us fund" to buy books.  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: DoubleTrouble on December 20, 2012, 07:24:32 PM
At least once a visit, my Mom will start cleaning something around the house. Like windows or ovens or the steps to the basement. When I came home from the hospital after my c-section, Mom decided to clean all the blinds in our house. As in take them all down to wash & dry each & every blind. Took something like two days & when she finished, Mom said something along the lines of how her blinds hadn't been cleaned in forever :o I cheerfully replied that there were cleaning services that would do it for her if she didn't have time!

The cleaning ticks DH off because it's her PA way of saying we don't keep a clean house but I just remind him that it's a free cleaning service >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ladyknight1 on December 20, 2012, 08:01:48 PM
  Certain people would even take their partner's gifts and use them!
 

Hmm...I guess I don't see what's wrong about that.

Give someone a gift card and their partner another gift card, and while one is away, the partner takes both gift cards and uses them. Repeated behavior. I no longer give them gift cards.
Again, I see that as something that's a matter between the couple. Last year, my nephew and his wife were gifted with a quantity of gift cards...they decided that rather than jointly deciding on what to buy, each would take the cards gifted by their own relatives. If he wants to trade his half of the department store card to her for her half of the Amazon.com card,  it seems reasonable to me. If a person is telling others that their spouse took his/her gift card without permission and used it, well...that's about like taking money out of your spouse's wallet without permission. Such a marriage seems to have way bigger problems that just the etiquette of gifting.

Yeah...if they're using each other's GCs without permission, that's a marital issue.

But if they're doing it with permission, I don't see it as a big deal. My ex used to get all these Barnes and Noble cards. It was a logical guess, as he's a smart guy who likes to read. But for various reasons, he doesn't actually like Barnes and Noble and rarely shopped there. He'd give them to me. It was a win/win--the card got used, I got books, and he benefited from me not tapping into the general "us fund" to buy books.  ;D

There is not a mutual agreement, but the husband is passive and won't say anything to the wife. He works out of town during the week, and she takes the gift cards to go shopping. I can't do anything about that, except no longer give gift cards. It wouldn't bother me if it was only one time, or it was mutually agreed, but that is not the case in this situation.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Nora on December 21, 2012, 02:40:00 AM

The cleaning ticks DH off because it's her PA way of saying we don't keep a clean house but I just remind him that it's a free cleaning service >:D

But it's not free, it comes with overbearing dissaproval.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: GratefulMaria on December 21, 2012, 06:15:31 AM

The cleaning ticks DH off because it's her PA way of saying we don't keep a clean house but I just remind him that it's a free cleaning service >:D

But it's not free, it comes with overbearing dissaproval.

Very true.  But the recipient can decide not to pay the cost.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on December 21, 2012, 06:19:31 AM
My grandmother used to write 'Slattern!' in the dust on top of my mother's piano.

My mother used to leave it for her next visit, so that she wouldn't be put to the inconvenience of writing it again.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ladyknight1 on December 21, 2012, 07:08:13 AM
My grandmother used to write 'Slattern!' in the dust on top of my mother's piano.

My mother used to leave it for her next visit, so that she wouldn't be put to the inconvenience of writing it again.

I think I like your mom.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: AfleetAlex on December 21, 2012, 09:35:59 AM
Me too!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Celany on December 21, 2012, 09:45:46 AM
At least once a visit, my Mom will start cleaning something around the house. Like windows or ovens or the steps to the basement. When I came home from the hospital after my c-section, Mom decided to clean all the blinds in our house. As in take them all down to wash & dry each & every blind. Took something like two days & when she finished, Mom said something along the lines of how her blinds hadn't been cleaned in forever :o I cheerfully replied that there were cleaning services that would do it for her if she didn't have time!

The cleaning ticks DH off because it's her PA way of saying we don't keep a clean house but I just remind him that it's a free cleaning service >:D

I'll try to think of it your way. During the rare visit when my mom comes & stays, she also does that kind of cleaning & it makes my blood boil. When she stayed last year, my roommates & I had just done a really good cleaning & the only thing she could find to pick at was the dish drying rack. It had gotten a little dirty at the bottom. Which she made a huuuuuuuuge deal out of. Ugh.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: andi on December 21, 2012, 09:47:48 AM
My grandmother used to write 'Slattern!' in the dust on top of my mother's piano.

My mother used to leave it for her next visit, so that she wouldn't be put to the inconvenience of writing it again.

Hot coffee up my nose. That is just the best response ever.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 21, 2012, 09:50:16 AM
... When she stayed last year, my roommates & I had just done a really good cleaning & the only thing she could find to pick at was the dish drying rack. It had gotten a little dirty at the bottom. Which she made a huuuuuuuuge deal out of. Ugh.

It sounds like she just wants to think she's still useful and needed.  Personally, I'm DELIGHTED when I see a little dirt of some kind or another at my DIL's and my own DD's homes but for a very different reason.  It makes me feel like I don't have to go crazy cleaning whenever they're coming to visit to keep my own house up to their standards!   ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Yvaine on December 21, 2012, 09:53:28 AM
Me too!

Me three!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Celany on December 21, 2012, 10:45:01 AM
... When she stayed last year, my roommates & I had just done a really good cleaning & the only thing she could find to pick at was the dish drying rack. It had gotten a little dirty at the bottom. Which she made a huuuuuuuuge deal out of. Ugh.

It sounds like she just wants to think she's still useful and needed.  Personally, I'm DELIGHTED when I see a little dirt of some kind or another at my DIL's and my own DD's homes but for a very different reason.  It makes me feel like I don't have to go crazy cleaning whenever they're coming to visit to keep my own house up to their standards!   ;D

That is absolutely true, and if she handled it differently, I'd just be happy to have the extra cleaning help and feel grateful. But she usually gives my roommates a mournful look and says something along the lines of "I raised her to be neater than this. But she's just so meeeeeeeeeessssssssssssy". And then she'll shake her head sadly.

She's a hoarder. There is not a single room in her house that doesn't have piles of boxes & crap. Most rooms (including my parents bedroom, my bedroom, the spare bedroom, and her old crafting room) are so piled with boxes that it's either impossible to get into them (literally impossible. boxes have fallen against the door, so it cannot be opened), or impossible to get farther than the doorway. THAT is how I was raised.

Which is why I want to climb the walls whenever she makes a comment on my home.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 21, 2012, 10:48:23 AM
That reminds me of when my parents stayed with us one Christmas after our first daughter was born.  They invited over some friends to come see the new baby (who was approximately one week old at the time, so yeah, my husband and I were a bit tired and stressed).  I decided to forego the nap I desperately needed and tidy up the house for the visitors.    My mother entered the room just as I was finishing up, glanced around, and said reassuringly "Don't worry about it being so messy.  Our friends know that you just had a new baby, and they won't expect it to be neat." 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jules1980 on December 21, 2012, 11:03:04 AM
He did get a Kindle Fire by saving up his money (we paid for half), but this is mostly stuff like Pop-Tarts and ice cream, with the occasional Nerf gun thrown in. I don't mind stuff like that once in a while, but if I let on that he could just buy them with his own money he'd never eat anything else!
Next birthday, wrap him up a box of Pop-Tarts and when he opens it, amazed to discover it is NOT the gift of his dreams, reply, 'You asked for it so often, and so piteously, I thought it would be what you really wanted for your birthday!'   
Oh, wait, that would be passive aggressive.
 >:D

That would be PA, but giving him a wrapped box of Pop-Tarts along with a larger, more appropriate birthday gift might be fun.

One year for Christmas my nephew received in his stocking a box of Ritz crackers and a pack of McDonald's gift certificates since he always asked for "real crackers" (as opposed to the whole grain, seedy variety my sister bought) and daily asked for a milkshake from the McDonald's they passed on the way back from school.

Nephew was THRILLED.

My grandmother once used a big frosted flakes box (It actually held several boxes of Frosted Flakes, my aunt got it from the retail store she worked at.) to wrap my DB's gift in.  He opened it, said, "Cool! Frosted Flakes!" and sat it down.  It was an hour later before grandmother told him to look in the box.  He was DISAPPOINTED that he got sneakers and not Frosted Flakes.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 21, 2012, 11:05:04 AM


It sounds like she just wants to think she's still useful and needed.  Personally, I'm DELIGHTED when I see a little dirt of some kind or another at my DIL's and my own DD's homes but for a very different reason.  It makes me feel like I don't have to go crazy cleaning whenever they're coming to visit to keep my own house up to their standards!   ;D

That is absolutely true, and if she handled it differently, I'd just be happy to have the extra cleaning help and feel grateful. But she usually gives my roommates a mournful look and says something along the lines of "I raised her to be neater than this. But she's just so meeeeeeeeeessssssssssssy". And then she'll shake her head sadly.

She's a hoarder. There is not a single room in her house that doesn't have piles of boxes & crap. Most rooms (including my parents bedroom, my bedroom, the spare bedroom, and her old crafting room) are so piled with boxes that it's either impossible to get into them (literally impossible. boxes have fallen against the door, so it cannot be opened), or impossible to get farther than the doorway. THAT is how I was raised.

Which is why I want to climb the walls whenever she makes a comment on my home.

Yeah, that changes everything. I'd be climbing the walls too under the circumstances you describe.   Funny that she is 'satisfied' with the mess in her own house, yet wants yours so clean and tidy and organized! 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Celany on December 21, 2012, 11:10:06 AM
Three of my romantic relationships that ended in the past few years did so because I gave the person I was dating (who turned out to be rather P/A) what they wanted.

In each case, we were having a disagreement about something that I thought was serious, but not relationship-threatening. For example, one was a case of a miscommunication: he thought I was calling him to set up where we'd meet, I thought he was calling me. When I didn't call him, instead of calling me to find out what happened, he decided that I'd stood him up. At any rate, because he was upset that I stood him up, he sent me a text, telling me that he wanted to return the stuff that I'd left at his place (toothbrush, pjs). I was confused, both at the hostility, & why we went from meeting up to breaking up. But I went along with it & made arrangements to get my stuff.

Then we talked about it, & I found out that he was returning my stuff/breaking up with me because he thought I stood him up. Mind you, we've been dating for four months at this point, I'd *never* stood him up, and the only time I ever cancelled was when I was sick. But he'd had previous girlfriends stand him up, so he had a rather...drastic reaction to thinking he was being stood up.

Once we figured out what had happened, he wanted to keep dating. It turns out, he was breaking up with me to teach me a lesson about how seriously he feels about being stood up. But he hadn't actually expected me to "accept" the breakup.

Sorry dude, if your idea of how to handle things is to use breaking up with me as a weapon, then we shouldn't be dating.

And this has happened three times in the past few years. It's a really disheartening trend.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: DoubleTrouble on December 21, 2012, 12:48:26 PM
The cleaning ticks DH off because it's her PA way of saying we don't keep a clean house but I just remind him that it's a free cleaning service >:D
But it's not free, it comes with overbearing dissaproval.
Very true.  But the recipient can decide not to pay the cost.

Agreed. I completely ignore the PA comments or just offer to get her more cleaning supplies ( >:D) & DH usually makes himself scarce when she's there. And frankly the things she cleans are usually what I hate to clean like the oven or the blinds so it's fine by me if she wants to play the martyr & clean stuff. It has gotten to the point where DH just rolls his eyes & moves on when I tell him what she's cleaned now (it's become a running joke with us & with my Dad) which is a lot better when it first started about 5 years ago.

Part of it comes from Mom hates just sitting around & when the boys were younger & not very interactive there was a lot of down time. These days they wear her out so much I really can't think of the last time she did any serious cleaning. Plus I usually have our house cleaners come before she arrives to do a deep clean which is becoming necessary with my boys. Have I mentioned I hate cleaning? Love our service!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 21, 2012, 01:48:04 PM
That is absolutely true, and if she handled it differently, I'd just be happy to have the extra cleaning help and feel grateful. But she usually gives my roommates a mournful look and says something along the lines of "I raised her to be neater than this. But she's just so meeeeeeeeeessssssssssssy". And then she'll shake her head sadly.

She's a hoarder. There is not a single room in her house that doesn't have piles of boxes & crap. Most rooms (including my parents bedroom, my bedroom, the spare bedroom, and her old crafting room) are so piled with boxes that it's either impossible to get into them (literally impossible. boxes have fallen against the door, so it cannot be opened), or impossible to get farther than the doorway. THAT is how I was raised.

Which is why I want to climb the walls whenever she makes a comment on my home.

Yeah, that changes everything. I'd be climbing the walls too under the circumstances you describe.   Funny that she is 'satisfied' with the mess in her own house, yet wants yours so clean and tidy and organized!

My parents have the grossest house imaginable.  As an example, my little sister decided to experiment with the anarchist's cookbook when she was in junior high with some friends.  She burned a hole in the linoleum of our laundry/mud room in a failed attempt to make a small amount of napalm.  She moved some cleaning supplies (that had been left on the floor) over the spot to make it look like they had leaked and done the damage.  My parents didn't discover the damage until TEN years later.  Because they had never picked up the cleaning supplies and put some boxes right over them and then just kept  layering.  Let me be clear that this didn't happen in some out-of-the-way spot.

But my parents are what can only be called "fakes."  I mean that they are so heartily ashamed of the inaction that happens when they are hit with severe depression that all their meager mental resources go to hiding it.

So when I first was living out of the house, I wasn't THAT clean.  I worked half time and went to school full time so I did the bare minimum.  They would come over and say, "I just don't understand where you got this." And apologize to my roommates as if they had done all they could to fight against my slovenly nature to no avail.  Sometimes right afterwards I'd ride home with them and they'd say, "Oh, could you clean the bathrooms for us?" And the bathrooms hadn't been cleaned since I had been there several months before.

<snip> It turns out, he was breaking up with me to teach me a lesson about how seriously he feels about being stood up. But he hadn't actually expected me to "accept" the breakup.

Sorry dude, if your idea of how to handle things is to use breaking up with me as a weapon, then we shouldn't be dating.

And this has happened three times in the past few years. It's a really disheartening trend.

But if you aren't begging them to take you back.  I think that's half the battle. 

I was once similarly disheartened at my judgment after my boyfriend called me names, threw things at me, and told me to get out of his face.  (OK, he used worse words than that.)  I just went home, bagged his stuff and put it on his doorstep and tried to get over him.  He immediately called me up to yell about how I was "calloused and unfeeling" and that "you just got rid of my things like you want to discard me." Dude, you broke up with me.  And that was after several times you said you said "I don't trust a single bone in your body."

He expected me to beg and plead and promise never to misread his mind again.  At the time I couldn't figure how I could have not seen the warning signs.  I went with a whole lot of rounds of "I suck, I suck, I suck."  But in retrospect, I realized the fact that I didn't back down or regret my decision to stay broken up showed that I was ahead of so many people who I thought were "successful" in relationships.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Auntie Mame on December 21, 2012, 03:20:27 PM
During the rare visit when my mom comes & stays, she also does that kind of cleaning & it makes my blood boil. When she stayed last year, my roommates & I had just done a really good cleaning & the only thing she could find to pick at was the dish drying rack. It had gotten a little dirty at the bottom. Which she made a huuuuuuuuge deal out of. Ugh.

I honestly would have straight out laughed at her and said, "Really, that's the best you can do?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 21, 2012, 03:38:14 PM
There is someone in my life who used to turn every argument into a pity party by saying things like "I'm a horrible person, I wouldn't blame you if you hated me!" I fell for this for a long time and would immediately shift my focus from whatever I'd been upset about to reassuring them that I loved them and thought they were wonderful. Of course this would take awhile and by the time they were calmed down it was too late/awkward to get back to the subject we'd been arguing about so I'd just drop it.

I finally realized what was going on so the next time it happened (which wasn't very often) I just sat silently, staring, as the negative comments were made. Then they got quiet too, expecting me to step in and prop them up. I said "Oh, I'm sorry, was that my cue to drop the subject of X and spend the next 15 minutes reassuring you that you're wonderful? I think you know I love you and think you're a good person. Anyway, I'm upset because..." Total stunned expression on their face. I think they'd been doing that for so long, as a way of coping with/escaping from guilt-inducing discussions, that they honestly didn't realize it was happening. It happened a few more times and I'd just sit quietly and then get back to the subject at hand. Over time they realized it's not a Huge Scary Deal when I'm upset, heck they can express being upset too! We have great discussions now.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Hillia on December 21, 2012, 03:57:26 PM
I'm on my way to breaking DH of his PA-ness about housework.  He'll say, mournfully, as he watches me do dishes/laundry/vacuum etc, 'I'm just a useless lazy bum'.  I used to say, oh no honey, of course you're not.  Finally I got fed up and said, 'You know that calling yourself names doesn't relieve you of your responsibility, right?'  To his credit, he took this in and now does a lot more proactive cleaning, and will ask me what he can do to help when I'm working around the house.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: RubyCat on December 21, 2012, 04:04:30 PM
My ex-husband used to pull the "I'm leaving" act.  In the beginning, I was devastated at the thought of being left alone with two small children and shame of a failed marriage.  I would cry and beg him not to leave, but he would leave anyway only to return after a few hours.  Over time, when he would tell me he was leaving, I would just reply "Ok."  The last time he left, I changed the locks.   >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on December 21, 2012, 05:02:22 PM
My ex-husband used to pull the "I'm leaving" act.  In the beginning, I was devastated at the thought of being left alone with two small children and shame of a failed marriage.  I would cry and beg him not to leave, but he would leave anyway only to return after a few hours.  Over time, when he would tell me he was leaving, I would just reply "Ok."  The last time he left, I changed the locks.   >:D

Rubycat for the win!  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: chibichan on December 21, 2012, 05:20:57 PM
Rubycat is my new HERO .
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: PeterM on December 21, 2012, 06:48:11 PM
My ex-husband used to pull the "I'm leaving" act.  In the beginning, I was devastated at the thought of being left alone with two small children and shame of a failed marriage.  I would cry and beg him not to leave, but he would leave anyway only to return after a few hours.  Over time, when he would tell me he was leaving, I would just reply "Ok."  The last time he left, I changed the locks.   >:D

That reminds me of one of my favorite stories. Way back when I was in charge of a bunch of work study students at the university library where I worked. They were a great bunch of kids and hearing about their lives was very entertaining. One of my favorite students was involved with a guy who started out great but quickly started losing that "new relationship smell," or however you want to phrase it. It really came to a head when he started seeing a second girl and apparently started complaining to anyone who would listen about what a dilemma he faced, being involved with two wonderful women at once. My student cooled things off with him, because she was neither happy nor impressed, but she did call him up to try and make sense of everything and give it one final shot. The guy went into a spiel about how "You're great, but so is she, and I'm being pulled in two directions at once, and it's so hard and I just don't know what to do!" He was pretty clearly expecting my student to fight for his love.

What she actually did was say, "Let me make it easier for you," and hang up the phone. Never spoke to him again, as far as I know. I loved that girl.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: RebeccainGA on December 24, 2012, 08:16:43 AM
My ex-husband used to pull the "I'm leaving" act.  In the beginning, I was devastated at the thought of being left alone with two small children and shame of a failed marriage.  I would cry and beg him not to leave, but he would leave anyway only to return after a few hours.  Over time, when he would tell me he was leaving, I would just reply "Ok."  The last time he left, I changed the locks.   >:D

That reminds me of one of my favorite stories. Way back when I was in charge of a bunch of work study students at the university library where I worked. They were a great bunch of kids and hearing about their lives was very entertaining. One of my favorite students was involved with a guy who started out great but quickly started losing that "new relationship smell," or however you want to phrase it. It really came to a head when he started seeing a second girl and apparently started complaining to anyone who would listen about what a dilemma he faced, being involved with two wonderful women at once. My student cooled things off with him, because she was neither happy nor impressed, but she did call him up to try and make sense of everything and give it one final shot. The guy went into a spiel about how "You're great, but so is she, and I'm being pulled in two directions at once, and it's so hard and I just don't know what to do!" He was pretty clearly expecting my student to fight for his love.

What she actually did was say, "Let me make it easier for you," and hang up the phone. Never spoke to him again, as far as I know. I loved that girl.

Oh how I wish I'd had that line at my fingertips when I was in that situation in college. Good for her!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Thipu1 on December 24, 2012, 08:56:30 AM
That reminds me of when my parents stayed with us one Christmas after our first daughter was born.  They invited over some friends to come see the new baby (who was approximately one week old at the time, so yeah, my husband and I were a bit tired and stressed).  I decided to forego the nap I desperately needed and tidy up the house for the visitors.    My mother entered the room just as I was finishing up, glanced around, and said reassuringly "Don't worry about it being so messy.  Our friends know that you just had a new baby, and they won't expect it to be neat."

A friend of ours had the best solution to situations like this.  Her advice was to not clean up too much.  Let the neatnik mother find something to clean.  It will keep her busy and happy. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Winterlight on December 24, 2012, 12:40:22 PM
Three of my romantic relationships that ended in the past few years did so because I gave the person I was dating (who turned out to be rather P/A) what they wanted.

In each case, we were having a disagreement about something that I thought was serious, but not relationship-threatening. For example, one was a case of a miscommunication: he thought I was calling him to set up where we'd meet, I thought he was calling me. When I didn't call him, instead of calling me to find out what happened, he decided that I'd stood him up. At any rate, because he was upset that I stood him up, he sent me a text, telling me that he wanted to return the stuff that I'd left at his place (toothbrush, pjs). I was confused, both at the hostility, & why we went from meeting up to breaking up. But I went along with it & made arrangements to get my stuff.

Then we talked about it, & I found out that he was returning my stuff/breaking up with me because he thought I stood him up. Mind you, we've been dating for four months at this point, I'd *never* stood him up, and the only time I ever cancelled was when I was sick. But he'd had previous girlfriends stand him up, so he had a rather...drastic reaction to thinking he was being stood up.

Once we figured out what had happened, he wanted to keep dating. It turns out, he was breaking up with me to teach me a lesson about how seriously he feels about being stood up. But he hadn't actually expected me to "accept" the breakup.

Sorry dude, if your idea of how to handle things is to use breaking up with me as a weapon, then we shouldn't be dating.

And this has happened three times in the past few years. It's a really disheartening trend.

Good for you! I would have happily dumped him too. I don't like those games- if you're upset, tell me and we can try to work it out. "Punishing" me? That gives you the boot.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Elisabunny on December 24, 2012, 06:02:24 PM
Last year my mother decided she didn't want to "do" Christmas anymore.  So we invited them over for desserts on Boxing Day.  But that wasn't good enough- from various comments she's made over the last year, I was magically supposed to know to call or email or something on Christmas Day.

Well, we're not doing the Boxing Day thing this year, and she won't answer the phone if she sees me on the caller ID- apparently she got offended by something (during the funeral, as near as I can tell) and is Not Speaking to me.  Eventually I suppose she'll tell me what I did that was so terrible.  So I guess I'll just send an email.  Because I'm supposed to wish her a Merry Christmas on the actual day.
 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: jedikaiti on December 24, 2012, 07:46:17 PM
Last year my mother decided she didn't want to "do" Christmas anymore.  So we invited them over for desserts on Boxing Day.  But that wasn't good enough- from various comments she's made over the last year, I was magically supposed to know to call or email or something on Christmas Day.

Well, we're not doing the Boxing Day thing this year, and she won't answer the phone if she sees me on the caller ID- apparently she got offended by something (during the funeral, as near as I can tell) and is Not Speaking to me.  Eventually I suppose she'll tell me what I did that was so terrible.  So I guess I'll just send an email.  Because I'm supposed to wish her a Merry Christmas on the actual day.

Evil Jedi says to send up smoke signals. If she doesn't see them, it's her fault. ;-)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: aiki on December 25, 2012, 04:59:10 AM
At least once a visit, my Mom will start cleaning something around the house. Like windows or ovens or the steps to the basement. When I came home from the hospital after my c-section, Mom decided to clean all the blinds in our house. As in take them all down to wash & dry each & every blind. Took something like two days & when she finished, Mom said something along the lines of how her blinds hadn't been cleaned in forever :o I cheerfully replied that there were cleaning services that would do it for her if she didn't have time!

The cleaning ticks DH off because it's her PA way of saying we don't keep a clean house but I just remind him that it's a free cleaning service >:D

I'll try to think of it your way. During the rare visit when my mom comes & stays, she also does that kind of cleaning & it makes my blood boil. When she stayed last year, my roommates & I had just done a really good cleaning & the only thing she could find to pick at was the dish drying rack. It had gotten a little dirty at the bottom. Which she made a huuuuuuuuge deal out of. Ugh.

Next time, leave a few things deliberately dirty. Run a betting pool on which one gets picked. Celebrate your win/commiserate over your loss with strong liquor, if you are that way inclined.

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: sevenday on December 25, 2012, 07:16:04 AM
My ex calls this "salting."  If you give them something to do, they forget to nitpick at you for the 258157 other things that they normally pick at you for... at least for the time they're cleaning! 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: otterwoman on December 25, 2012, 11:03:36 AM
My ex calls this "salting."  If you give them something to do, they forget to nitpick at you for the 258157 other things that they normally pick at you for... at least for the time they're cleaning!

I do that with my MIL. Clean what I feel like, leave the rest for her, so she feels like she has something to do. She gets to indulge her OCD, I get a cleaner house. Win-win!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: ica171 on December 25, 2012, 11:10:16 AM
This thread has helped me decide how I'm going to deal with my mom the next time she tries this stuff. I have a 9 month old daughter, and ever since she was about 4-5 months old, she's cried whenever my mom walks into the room. No one knows why, she just does. Now, when my mom does the "woe is me, why don't you love me, you'll have to come stay at my house and I'll make you love me" talk to DD, I ignore her. She knows that's not going to happen and I just don't even feel like it needs to be addressed. But one day a few months ago as she was leaving my house, she held DD, who started crying. I said jokingly, "Wow, what did you do to her?" She started in on "How could you say I'd do something to that little girl, I'd never do anything to hurt her, I love her," etc etc. The first few times I reassured her and said "I know, I know, it was a joke, she's just a baby, she just needs time," on and on.

Then she brought it up at Thanksgiving. I said "You know that was a joke, right?" She said "Yes" and then carried on with her woe is me speech. So next time she says "You said I did something to DD!" I'm just going to say "Yep" and leave it at that.

It worked (I think)! We had our big family Christmas on the 23rd. My baby was being her cranky self (because she was sleeping when we got there and DH woke her up) but after I calmed her down she more or less tolerated one of my sisters. Said sister was standing by my mom, who talked to DD, who started crying. Everyone laughed over DD crying when Grandma talks to her, and Mom made her comment about "and Ica171 had the unmitigated gall (one of her favorite phrases) to ask what I did to her!" I said "yep, I did." She didn't say anything else and the topic wasn't brought up again. We might go up there again today, so we'll see if it comes up again. I plan on doing the same thing if it does.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Redneck Gravy on December 28, 2012, 09:07:28 AM
This incident happened right before the end of my marriage and months of marriage counseling.

My ex was upset about something but wouldn't tell me what it was; he just kept picking at me over other little things.  I finally said tell me what it is you are really upset about.  He said it was something that had happened before we ever married (19 years previously).  I asked what in the world he was talking about?  He said you don't remember?  I said obviously not so tell me.  He said well if you don't remember nevermind.  I said okay, here is your chance to clear the air but if you choose not to I don't want to hear about it ever again. 

A half hour or so passed and he mentioned it again.  I said okay for the second time tell me what it is you are talking about?  He said I can't believe you don't remember, I am not telling you.  I said okay once again here is your chance to clear the air.  No, he couldn't believe I didn't remember what it was.  I said okay your choice. 

Another half hour or so passed and once again he brought it up.  I said - LAST CHANCE either tell me what you are so unhappy about or let it go, I am not going to remember something that happened over 19 years ago if you don't tell me what it is!  Colorful adjectives & adverbs followed but he never did tell me what it was.  I have been happily divorced 15 years - still have no clue what incident occured that kept him upset for 19 years. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: hobish on December 28, 2012, 09:47:23 AM
This incident happened right before the end of my marriage and months of marriage counseling.

My ex was upset about something but wouldn't tell me what it was; he just kept picking at me over other little things.  I finally said tell me what it is you are really upset about.  He said it was something that had happened before we ever married (19 years previously).  I asked what in the world he was talking about?  He said you don't remember?  I said obviously not so tell me.  He said well if you don't remember nevermind.  I said okay, here is your chance to clear the air but if you choose not to I don't want to hear about it ever again. 

A half hour or so passed and he mentioned it again.  I said okay for the second time tell me what it is you are talking about?  He said I can't believe you don't remember, I am not telling you.  I said okay once again here is your chance to clear the air.  No, he couldn't believe I didn't remember what it was.  I said okay your choice. 

Another half hour or so passed and once again he brought it up.  I said - LAST CHANCE either tell me what you are so unhappy about or let it go, I am not going to remember something that happened over 19 years ago if you don't tell me what it is!  Colorful adjectives & adverbs followed but he never did tell me what it was.  I have been happily divorced 15 years - still have no clue what incident occured that kept him upset for 19 years.

Dangit, now I want to know. What's his number?
 :P >:D ;)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Otterpop on December 28, 2012, 09:55:24 AM
This incident happened right before the end of my marriage and months of marriage counseling.

My ex was upset about something but wouldn't tell me what it was; he just kept picking at me over other little things.  I finally said tell me what it is you are really upset about.  He said it was something that had happened before we ever married (19 years previously).  I asked what in the world he was talking about?  He said you don't remember?  I said obviously not so tell me.  He said well if you don't remember nevermind.  I said okay, here is your chance to clear the air but if you choose not to I don't want to hear about it ever again. 

A half hour or so passed and he mentioned it again.  I said okay for the second time tell me what it is you are talking about?  He said I can't believe you don't remember, I am not telling you.  I said okay once again here is your chance to clear the air.  No, he couldn't believe I didn't remember what it was.  I said okay your choice. 

Another half hour or so passed and once again he brought it up.  I said - LAST CHANCE either tell me what you are so unhappy about or let it go, I am not going to remember something that happened over 19 years ago if you don't tell me what it is!  Colorful adjectives & adverbs followed but he never did tell me what it was.  I have been happily divorced 15 years - still have no clue what incident occured that kept him upset for 19 years.

I do too!   >:D

Wow!!!  You have to wonder why it didn't bother him enough to NOT get married/spend 19 years with someone he was "upset" with. 

It's really the power to dredge stuff up, to hold it over our heads and be "mysterious" about it that they like.  If we decide we don't care and aren't going to grovel, it diminishes that power.  When one person decides to be reasonable and talk things out, that often signals the end of the relationship.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Morticia on December 28, 2012, 10:05:42 AM
I would bet that there was no incident that he had been holding a grudge about, but he was justifying his dreadful behaviour by claiming moral "high-ground." Which is why he would never say what it is. Also, if it was so egregious, why marry in the first place? Nope, never happened.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 28, 2012, 11:15:08 AM
He couldn't tell you what it was because "it" never happened!!   8)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: blue2000 on December 28, 2012, 11:43:41 AM
Chances are there was something that upset him. Considering his behaviour, I would find it downright astonishing if nothing upset him - he seems to be a very negative person.

But if he has to dig back 19 years to find a good offense, that says something! :P
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: GratefulMaria on December 28, 2012, 12:35:16 PM
Trying a positive feedback loop with my mother often works to dial it back.  For the last couple of years, I'd taken to offering to run errands for her before she thought to ask.  For one thing, I'm always out and about anyway; for another, the way she asks annoys me, and my main goal was to head it off so I don't have to hear it.  Well, unintended consequence:  she's gotten more straightforward about asking (while still absolutely polite).  She's also likelier to arrange things for herself.  We're both happier!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: DoubleTrouble on December 29, 2012, 12:33:17 PM
At least once a visit, my Mom will start cleaning something around the house. Like windows or ovens or the steps to the basement. When I came home from the hospital after my c-section, Mom decided to clean all the blinds in our house. As in take them all down to wash & dry each & every blind. Took something like two days & when she finished, Mom said something along the lines of how her blinds hadn't been cleaned in forever :o I cheerfully replied that there were cleaning services that would do it for her if she didn't have time!

The cleaning ticks DH off because it's her PA way of saying we don't keep a clean house but I just remind him that it's a free cleaning service >:D

I'll try to think of it your way. During the rare visit when my mom comes & stays, she also does that kind of cleaning & it makes my blood boil. When she stayed last year, my roommates & I had just done a really good cleaning & the only thing she could find to pick at was the dish drying rack. It had gotten a little dirty at the bottom. Which she made a huuuuuuuuge deal out of. Ugh.

Next time, leave a few things deliberately dirty. Run a betting pool on which one gets picked. Celebrate your win/commiserate over your loss with strong liquor, if you are that way inclined.

Well, if DH & I done a bet for Christmas neither of us would have won as she didn't clean a thing! Guess she got worn out by a couple of 4-year olds & a puppy  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: snowflake on December 29, 2012, 02:42:10 PM
Chances are there was something that upset him. Considering his behaviour, I would find it downright astonishing if nothing upset him - he seems to be a very negative person.

But if he has to dig back 19 years to find a good offense, that says something! :P

I was going to ask if you were married to my sister!  She's mad at me over things that happened years ago but won't talk about them.  She says I don't understand because she never, ever did anything that a reasonable person would consider even annoying.  Um surrrrrrreeeee.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on December 29, 2012, 09:36:23 PM
Someone asked for an update to the Don and Linda Thanksgiving story. Don and Linda did not go to his parents' house for Thanksgiving, despite many (many, many) phone calls from various relatives telling Don how shocked and appalled they were by his behavior and how he needed to be a good son and apologize to his mother. 

Mom went into an extinction burst of voicemails, FB messages, emails, etc., all telling him that he'd RUINED her holiday with his hard-heartedness and cruelty, and clearly this behavior was all Linda's idea/fault.  Life would be so much better if he hadn't married her.  Linda was stealing him from his family and making him forget what he owes his parents, etc.  Her final message was in mid-December, when she told Don that if he didn't apologize for his multitude of offenses, he wouldn't be welcome at Christmas.

Don took that at face-value and made plans to spend Christmas with his wife and inlaws, who treat him quite nicely.  His family started up again with the "You're breaking your mother's heart!" messages.  He blocked a lot of them on FB, email and his cell phone.  As far as I know, they had a nice quiet, peaceful Christmas.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 29, 2012, 09:42:57 PM
 ;D  Good for Don and Linda!!  Sounds like they both have good, solid, sturdy, titanium spines and Diety of your choice knows they need them with that kind of family!!   It also sounds like they both know how to be supportive of each other.  Good for them.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Winterlight on December 29, 2012, 10:20:45 PM
Attaboy!

I'm thinking the best thing for them and their marriage is to stay far, far away from his toxic mom and her supporters.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jocelyn on December 30, 2012, 09:40:27 AM
A friend of ours had the best solution to situations like this.  Her advice was to not clean up too much.  Let the neatnik mother find something to clean.  It will keep her busy and happy.
I am told it works even faster if you lie on the sofa, eating something messy, and periodically call for the neatnik to bring you another beverage.  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Shalamar on December 30, 2012, 11:31:27 AM
So THAT'S where my 15-year-old got the idea from ...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: RingTailedLemur on December 30, 2012, 12:01:20 PM
Someone asked for an update to the Don and Linda Thanksgiving story...

I'm sorry, I can't find the first part of this story.  Could you give a link, please?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on December 30, 2012, 12:03:31 PM
First post in this thread.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: RingTailedLemur on December 30, 2012, 12:24:55 PM
First post in this thread.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: onikenbai on December 30, 2012, 01:36:00 PM
My mother is not content enough to be merely PA, she makes sure that other people suffer publicly for what she perceives are failures to act on the part of other people.  As an example, her friend had been extremely ill for some time.  Every time either my brother or I spoke to mother, we inquired about friend's health etc., so it's not like we were completely insensitive to the issue.  I work about 45 hours a week and go to grad school, so there are weeks that I get so busy that I literally do not have time to sleep, never mind check in with mother on a daily basis.  So one of those weeks rolls around and it's something like 8-9 days since I've last spoken to my mother.  When I call her and do the usual routine of asking about friend she said quite bitterly "Well if you took the time to call more often, you would know that we BURIED HER ON MONDAY."!  Yup, seems that she was more interested in making her PA point that I don't call her often enough that she failed to tell either my brother or I about the death, and the two of us were pointedly missed at the funeral.  We looked like insensitive sots for skipping the event, and my mother enjoyed her revenge.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 30, 2012, 01:40:40 PM
...    "Well if you took the time to call more often, you would know that we BURIED HER ON MONDAY."!  ...

You and your brother should spring for one of those fancy new fangled phones for your mother that allows her to actually MAKE calls all by herself to replace the one she has now that apparently only allows her to receive them!!   ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: JenJay on December 30, 2012, 01:56:05 PM
My mother is not content enough to be merely PA, she makes sure that other people suffer publicly for what she perceives are failures to act on the part of other people.  As an example, her friend had been extremely ill for some time.  Every time either my brother or I spoke to mother, we inquired about friend's health etc., so it's not like we were completely insensitive to the issue.  I work about 45 hours a week and go to grad school, so there are weeks that I get so busy that I literally do not have time to sleep, never mind check in with mother on a daily basis.  So one of those weeks rolls around and it's something like 8-9 days since I've last spoken to my mother.  When I call her and do the usual routine of asking about friend she said quite bitterly "Well if you took the time to call more often, you would know that we BURIED HER ON MONDAY."!  Yup, seems that she was more interested in making her PA point that I don't call her often enough that she failed to tell either my brother or I about the death, and the two of us were pointedly missed at the funeral.  We looked like insensitive sots for skipping the event, and my mother enjoyed her revenge.

I'm sorry that happened to you. I was in a similar situation once, though it wasn't deliberate P/A behavior (I still don't know what happened, but my Mom isn't P/A). Somehow my Mom, her husband and his adult kids all ended up attending my Great-Uncle's funeral... and I hadn't even been informed he'd passed on. It was horrible having to write a card to my Great-Aunt explaining that I hadn't been there because I hadn't known he was gone, but I thought that was better than having her think I just couldn't be bothered.  :-\
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Otterpop on December 30, 2012, 02:29:08 PM
That happened to me too.  My PA cousin got her final revenge on me by failing to inform me of her father's death (she was designated to call me).  Everyone, but me, showed up to the memorial.  I was my usual joking and chipper self with my aunt during brief phone calls.  My Facebook page was filled with busy shallowness.  Basically l looked like a giant, insensitive, donkey's behind.

I had to express my sorrow and explain that I was oblivious 2 weeks later when I got the "thank you for attending" memorial card.  It was mortifying.  But now I've given my PA cousin, who was overtly petty, competitive and jealous, the thing she always wanted:  complete no contact.

BTW  Thank you Webblewobble for the update on Don and Linda.  That is a great story!!!

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Iris on December 30, 2012, 03:06:03 PM
Someone asked for an update to the Don and Linda Thanksgiving story. Don and Linda did not go to his parents' house for Thanksgiving, despite many (many, many) phone calls from various relatives telling Don how shocked and appalled they were by his behavior and how he needed to be a good son and apologize to his mother. 

Mom went into an extinction burst of voicemails, FB messages, emails, etc., all telling him that he'd RUINED her holiday with his hard-heartedness and cruelty, and clearly this behavior was all Linda's idea/fault.  Life would be so much better if he hadn't married her.  Linda was stealing him from his family and making him forget what he owes his parents, etc.  Her final message was in mid-December, when she told Don that if he didn't apologize for his multitude of offenses, he wouldn't be welcome at Christmas.

Don took that at face-value and made plans to spend Christmas with his wife and inlaws, who treat him quite nicely.  His family started up again with the "You're breaking your mother's heart!" messages.  He blocked a lot of them on FB, email and his cell phone.  As far as I know, they had a nice quiet, peaceful Christmas.

I'd just like to take a moment to admire Don. People raised by passive aggressive parents (because I know him mother can't have just turned into this overnight) often find it amazingly difficult to break the pattern of behaviour, or even *see* that it is wrong. I would like him to adopt an 16 year old, teach him what he knows about family, marriage and priorities for the next 10 years, and then deliver him to my daughter please.  ;)

onikenbai - your story actually made me gasp out loud. I'm so sorry that happened to you.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BarensMom on December 30, 2012, 03:07:36 PM
I may have posted this story before, but I've finally given my brother and his family the cut.  The final straw was when Brother called me to ask for my sisters' addresses to send out birth announcements, then didn't bother to send me one (obviously a PA dig).  I still don't know which of his kids had the baby, nor at this point, do I care (no announcement, no baby gift).

Brother and his family are off my card lists, blocked from phone and FB, and out of my life.  I don't miss their toxicity at all - stick a fork in me, I'm done.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Auntie Mame on December 30, 2012, 03:40:29 PM
Someone asked for an update to the Don and Linda Thanksgiving story.

This is the story of the grandfather who torments his granddaughter, right?

If so, Good for Don and Linda!  My bravo and hats off!

I was appalled by that story.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on December 30, 2012, 03:43:07 PM
No the first story in this thread
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on December 30, 2012, 04:37:49 PM
That happened to me too.  My PA cousin got her final revenge on me by failing to inform me of her father's death (she was designated to call me).  Everyone, but me, showed up to the memorial.  I was my usual joking and chipper self with my aunt during brief phone calls.  My Facebook page was filled with busy shallowness.  Basically l looked like a giant, insensitive, donkey's behind.

I had to express my sorrow and explain that I was oblivious 2 weeks later when I got the "thank you for attending" memorial card.  It was mortifying.  But now I've given my PA cousin, who was overtly petty, competitive and jealous, the thing she always wanted:  complete no contact.

BTW  Thank you Webblewobble for the update on Don and Linda.  That is a great story!!!

Oh, believe me, it took quite a while for Don to develop his spine.  Don’s family is a huge matriarchal clan run by Don’s mother and her iron fist.  Not rich, but the family has a lot of pull in the small farming community where they live. Half of the tension between Don’s family and Linda is that she is not from this small farming community (i.e. hand-picked as a DIL by Don’s mother) and the other half comes from the fact that Linda’s family owns several successful businesses and they do have a lot of money, so Linda’s “faults” are blamed on her being a spoiled princess with no family values.

Don’s family is so big and enmeshed that Don really had no idea that so many of their insular tactics were not the norm.  Looking back, he realizes that he lost most of his girlfriends because of stunts similar to what his mother pulls on Linda.  He’d seen that so much growing up that he thought those things were just what families did. When the girlfriends responded badly to these tactics, Don's mother used it as proof that the girls weren’t right for Don and “not our kind, dear.”

The "holiday meal time swap" started from the very first holiday meal Don brought her home for.  She has never been treated kindly by them or made to feel welcome.

It took two years of Linda patiently, lovingly explaining to Don that this was not the average expectation/reaction from most families, for him to grasp “Wow, this behavior really isn’t very nice.”  For instance, if Linda and Don have plans for a special date, and Mom calls at the last minute because the extended family is getting together for dinner on the night of that date the reasonable expectation is that Don keeps his commitment with Linda.  NOT for Don’s mother to demand that he leave Linda at home and come to the family dinner, “because that’s good sons do.”

Or, similarly, if Don and Linda happen to come by the house when the extended family is sitting down to an impromptu family meal (15 or so people), the reasonable reaction is to either say, “Sorry, Don, we weren’t expecting you. Can we see you at another time?” or to make room for both of them at the table.  NOT to set a place for Don and ask Linda to wait in the living room while the family eats.

But the real eye-opener was the wedding planning process, which was a horrifying miasma of unreasonable demands, temper tantrums, PA guilt trips and “hills to die on.”  Don realized that the whole family cared way more about maintaining control over him than his being happy.  He started to distance himself from them all, and so began the accusations of Linda stealing Don away and ruining his good family values. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Jaelle on December 30, 2012, 08:33:56 PM
Good gravy, weeblewobble, she sounds like a nightmare. :P  I'm pretty sure my MIL blames me for the fact that her son will no longer, you know, come down and move furniture or run errands for her on a moment's notice, but Linda's MIL makes her look like a saint!

And is it awful for me to admit I really, really want to hear the wedding planning stories?  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: bloo on December 30, 2012, 08:41:29 PM
Good gravy, weeblewobble, she sounds like a nightmare. :P  I'm pretty sure my MIL blames me for the fact that her son will no longer, you know, come down and move furniture or run errands for her on a moment's notice, but Linda's MIL makes her look like a saint!

And is it awful for me to admit I really, really want to hear the wedding planning stories?  >:D

Yes please Weeble! If Linda's MIL is not PA, maybe she'll need her own thread but I'd also look forward to the guilty pleasure of hearing about the wedding planning stories!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 30, 2012, 09:12:03 PM
Boy these MIL stories make me grateful for mine!

My parents liked to try to play both ends against the middle with DH and I to try and make us fight.  Once DH was going out of town for about 2 weeks, can't remember why, but my mother told me that he said those two weeks alone with the two young boys would "be like a vacation for Pirate!"  The older two were, I think, about 4 and 3 years old at the time.  I was suspicious cause it was not something he would say and when I talked to him over the phone I mentioned what he said.  He laughed for a few minutes at the absurdity of such a statement.

I told my mother later that dh laughed at the idea of anyone saying it. She sniffed and said "Well of course he wouldn't admit it!"  ::)

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on December 30, 2012, 11:52:50 PM
Good gravy, weeblewobble, she sounds like a nightmare. :P  I'm pretty sure my MIL blames me for the fact that her son will no longer, you know, come down and move furniture or run errands for her on a moment's notice, but Linda's MIL makes her look like a saint!

And is it awful for me to admit I really, really want to hear the wedding planning stories?  >:D

Yes please Weeble! If Linda's MIL is not PA, maybe she'll need her own thread but I'd also look forward to the guilty pleasure of hearing about the wedding planning stories!

I don't want to give too many stories for fear of being identified, they were pretty specific.  Let's just say that one of Don's sisters actively tried (and succeeded) to conceive so she would be heavily pregnant at the wedding, "because it's not fair that Don and Linda get so much attention."  Linda figured that was the sister's choice and she wasn't about to complain.

But during the rehearsal dinner, the mother of the bride heard this sister talk about pretending that she was going into labor during the vows and causing a big disruption.  It was not said in a joking tone.  I believe the mother of the bride's response was to tell the sister that the MOB would wait until Sis gave birth and then smack the stupid right out of her.  Sis of course pitched a fit about being threatened and it turned into a big ugly scene.


PS, by MOB, I mean the mother-of-the-bride, not an organized crime family.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: bloo on December 31, 2012, 09:07:38 AM
Good gravy, weeblewobble, she sounds like a nightmare. :P  I'm pretty sure my MIL blames me for the fact that her son will no longer, you know, come down and move furniture or run errands for her on a moment's notice, but Linda's MIL makes her look like a saint!

And is it awful for me to admit I really, really want to hear the wedding planning stories?  >:D

Yes please Weeble! If Linda's MIL is not PA, maybe she'll need her own thread but I'd also look forward to the guilty pleasure of hearing about the wedding planning stories!

I don't want to give too many stories for fear of being identified, they were pretty specific.  Let's just say that one of Don's sisters actively tried (and succeeded) to conceive so she would be heavily pregnant at the wedding, "because it's not fair that Don and Linda get so much attention."  Linda figured that was the sister's choice and she wasn't about to complain.

But during the rehearsal dinner, the mother of the bride heard this sister talk about pretending that she was going into labor during the vows and causing a big disruption.  It was not said in a joking tone. I believe the mother of the bride's response was to tell the sister that the MOB would wait until Sis gave birth and then smack the stupid right out of her.  Sis of course pitched a fit about being threatened and it turned into a big ugly scene.

Gulp! :-[ Maybe I wouldn't be able to handle the Don-n-Linda Saga!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on December 31, 2012, 09:43:33 AM
Cross-posted from my hugs thread because it's just SO PA :P

So, back around Thanksgiving, I spoke to both my parents and told them that we would be available on their specified Christmas-celebrating dates, and that was it. We were coming into town on Saturday, but would be spending Saturday and Sunday together with just our family (my sister has DD now until the 30th, so we wanted to spend as much time with DD as possible.) At the time, they both said that was fine.

On Friday, my mom called and started telling me all these plans she wanted to do with us--which included Saturday, Sunday, and Monday (her day.) She has a really bad habit of inviting herself along on things, so I wasn't surprised, but I was annoyed. I said, "Oh, I thought we had agreed that you each got a day and the rest of the time it would be just us." She said, "Oh. Well. Call me on Saturday when you get in and we can talk about it." And then hung up before I could say anything else. Which is her MO.

We get in on Saturday around noon, visit with my sister and her BF and see their new dog, and then go out to do family things. Around 2 my mom calls and asks when we got in. "Earlier." "Oh, when?" "Earlier." Oh. Nice that you could call me and give me an update." And the passive-aggressiveness begins. We told her that we could be free for dinner and breakfast the next day (yeah, I folded and am kind of mad at myself). We met for dinner, and it was fine. At dinner, I said DH and I had done some talking and actually dinner the next night would be better than breakfast based on our plans (and plus it would give her more time with DD.) She said she really wanted swedish meatballs (which annoyed me because I would rather go out, but she would rather eat at home. She thinks it's more economical, but in reality it would be me or my sister buying the ingredients and me making whatever dish she wanted, which was NOT what I wanted to do on my vacation.) But I said okay, we can have it at Sis's house since we weren't doing Christmas there anymore. She agreed and everything seemed fine.

The next day, we go about all our plans. DH, DH and I go see a movie that afternoon, and plan on coming back and then my mom can come over. Our movie gets done around 4:30. Around that same time, my sister texts her and tells her she can come over at any time. No response. We call and tell her the same thing, no response. Two more texts from Sis, no response. Finally my mom texts Sis back with, "I don't think I am coming over tonight. You are all treating me terribly. This could be my last Christmas, I hope you feel great about yourselves." (Nevermind that we are giving her extra time, AND I spent time shopping for and making her stupid meatballs.)

THEN we learn that she's been on the phone with various relatives all day telling them how terrible we are because we don't want to spend every minute of every day with her. Some of them call my sister (but not me) and bawl her out for being an awful daughter at Christmas. How could we be so heartless. They tell her she needs to go up to my mom's house and apologize and make sure my mom is OK.

So, rather than spend the time available with us, she instead chose to stay away and trash us to other people. Gee, wonder why we don't want to spend time with you...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on December 31, 2012, 10:02:44 AM
Talk about self-defeating...

Unless what she really wants isn't time, but trashing... in which case, I'd have to say you can both get what you want out of it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: BabyMama on December 31, 2012, 10:11:59 AM
Talk about self-defeating...

Unless what she really wants isn't time, but trashing... in which case, I'd have to say you can both get what you want out of it.

What she REALLY wanted was for us to go over there and make a big fuss over her. Which my sister would have done if I hadn't been there.

Did I mention that one of the people she was on the phone all night was my cousin, who lives in New York (so half the country away.) And it was her birthday. Nothing like spending your birthday in NYC on the phone with a crazy person.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: weeblewobble on December 31, 2012, 12:28:28 PM
Good gravy, weeblewobble, she sounds like a nightmare. :P  I'm pretty sure my MIL blames me for the fact that her son will no longer, you know, come down and move furniture or run errands for her on a moment's notice, but Linda's MIL makes her look like a saint!

And is it awful for me to admit I really, really want to hear the wedding planning stories?  >:D

Yes please Weeble! If Linda's MIL is not PA, maybe she'll need her own thread but I'd also look forward to the guilty pleasure of hearing about the wedding planning stories!

I don't want to give too many stories for fear of being identified, they were pretty specific.  Let's just say that one of Don's sisters actively tried (and succeeded) to conceive so she would be heavily pregnant at the wedding, "because it's not fair that Don and Linda get so much attention."  Linda figured that was the sister's choice and she wasn't about to complain.

But during the rehearsal dinner, the mother of the bride heard this sister talk about pretending that she was going into labor during the vows and causing a big disruption.  It was not said in a joking tone. I believe the mother of the bride's response was to tell the sister that the MOB would wait until Sis gave birth and then smack the stupid right out of her.  Sis of course pitched a fit about being threatened and it turned into a big ugly scene.

Gulp! :-[ Maybe I wouldn't be able to handle the Don-n-Linda Saga!

PS, by MOB, I mean the mother-of-the-bride, not an organized crime family.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: PastryGoddess on December 31, 2012, 02:01:48 PM
Good gravy, weeblewobble, she sounds like a nightmare. :P  I'm pretty sure my MIL blames me for the fact that her son will no longer, you know, come down and move furniture or run errands for her on a moment's notice, but Linda's MIL makes her look like a saint!

And is it awful for me to admit I really, really want to hear the wedding planning stories?  >:D

Yes please Weeble! If Linda's MIL is not PA, maybe she'll need her own thread but I'd also look forward to the guilty pleasure of hearing about the wedding planning stories!

I don't want to give too many stories for fear of being identified, they were pretty specific.  Let's just say that one of Don's sisters actively tried (and succeeded) to conceive so she would be heavily pregnant at the wedding, "because it's not fair that Don and Linda get so much attention."  Linda figured that was the sister's choice and she wasn't about to complain.

But during the rehearsal dinner, the mother of the bride heard this sister talk about pretending that she was going into labor during the vows and causing a big disruption.  It was not said in a joking tone.  I believe the mother of the bride's response was to tell the sister that the MOB would wait until Sis gave birth and then smack the stupid right out of her.  Sis of course pitched a fit about being threatened and it turned into a big ugly scene.


PS, by MOB, I mean the mother-of-the-bride, not an organized crime family.

Tell me someone popped popcorn for all of this
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Hillia on December 31, 2012, 02:09:37 PM
I don't want to give too many stories for fear of being identified, they were pretty specific.  Let's just say that one of Don's sisters actively tried (and succeeded) to conceive so she would be heavily pregnant at the wedding, "because it's not fair that Don and Linda get so much attention."  Linda figured that was the sister's choice and she wasn't about to complain.


And what a charming story for their children.  Most parents can start with 'Mommy and Daddy loved each other and we were so happy when you came along!'  This poor kid gets 'We wanted to mess up Brother's wedding and this was the best way we could think of'.  Of course they may well have been planning to have a baby anyway and just delighted in the chance to time it this way, but I can't imagine people who treat their siblings that way will be  much more loving towards their kids.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Kimblee on January 09, 2013, 10:16:09 PM
I don't want to give too many stories for fear of being identified, they were pretty specific.  Let's just say that one of Don's sisters actively tried (and succeeded) to conceive so she would be heavily pregnant at the wedding, "because it's not fair that Don and Linda get so much attention."  Linda figured that was the sister's choice and she wasn't about to complain.


And what a charming story for their children.  Most parents can start with 'Mommy and Daddy loved each other and we were so happy when you came along!'  This poor kid gets 'We wanted to mess up Brother's wedding and this was the best way we could think of'.  Of course they may well have been planning to have a baby anyway and just delighted in the chance to time it this way, but I can't imagine people who treat their siblings that way will be  much more loving towards their kids.

Wow... I think that's actually a more heartless baby conception story than my friend in high school who charted her cycles so her teen pregnancy would net her the maximum ammount of college financial aid possible. (She managed to get a totally free ride to college between getting a grant for single moms, one per year for teen mothers, one for her cheerleading and one for being a minority. Plus some small scholarships for various other activities. It took some serious planning to pull what she did!) Student loans weren't an option because of a lack of qualified co-signers IIRC.

For the record, the "college" baby is seven now, and is VERY loved. To my knowladge she has never come right out and admitted to the kid that it was born because Mommy wanted to go to college and couldn't get a loan.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: afbluebelle on January 10, 2013, 12:10:19 AM
I don't want to give too many stories for fear of being identified, they were pretty specific.  Let's just say that one of Don's sisters actively tried (and succeeded) to conceive so she would be heavily pregnant at the wedding, "because it's not fair that Don and Linda get so much attention."  Linda figured that was the sister's choice and she wasn't about to complain.


And what a charming story for their children.  Most parents can start with 'Mommy and Daddy loved each other and we were so happy when you came along!'  This poor kid gets 'We wanted to mess up Brother's wedding and this was the best way we could think of'.  Of course they may well have been planning to have a baby anyway and just delighted in the chance to time it this way, but I can't imagine people who treat their siblings that way will be  much more loving towards their kids.

Wow... I think that's actually a more heartless baby conception story than my friend in high school who charted her cycles so her teen pregnancy would net her the maximum ammount of college financial aid possible. (She managed to get a totally free ride to college between getting a grant for single moms, one per year for teen mothers, one for her cheerleading and one for being a minority. Plus some small scholarships for various other activities. It took some serious planning to pull what she did!) Student loans weren't an option because of a lack of qualified co-signers IIRC.

For the record, the "college" baby is seven now, and is VERY loved. To my knowladge she has never come right out and admitted to the kid that it was born because Mommy wanted to go to college and couldn't get a loan.


I have to admit, I chuckled reading this... then I was pretty much amazed at the absurdity and sheer..... Yeah. Lack of words. That is an epic way to get an education!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE
Post by: weeblewobble on February 18, 2013, 10:42:39 PM
- My relative, Susan, has struggled with her mom's PA behavior for years.  Susan's father recently lost his job due to hostile behavior in the office.  A few years ago, when Susan and her husband, George, were going through typical "early married" financial problems, her mother told Susan that asking family members for loans JUST WASN'T DONE in their family.  Susan was hurt that her mother would say something like that before Susan even asked for help and the tone was "We don't want to help you, so don't ask."  Father has been out of work for two weeks. Now, Mother is sending Susan texts like, "We'd usually go out for dinner on Friday nights, now we're having cold sandwiches.  Sure would be nice if someone sent us a restaurant gift card!"  or "I'm not even bothering with Black Friday this year.  Sure would be nice if Santa sent us Christmas money!" Susan responded with, "That would be nice." to both. (Please note that these people aren't hungry or suffering.  Susan's parents live a very "brand conscious" lifestyle and there are plenty of things they can do to scale back.  Not to mention items they can sell for extra cash.)

At Thanksgiving, which Susan hosted, Mother informed Susan, "It would be nice if you gave us some spending cash.  Otherwise, we're not going to be able to afford Christmas gifts this year.  And if that happens, I don't think we'll even bother coming over for Christmas."  Susan said, "Well, we would miss you."  Mother sulked and said maybe they would come over after all.


An update to the situation above:

Susan told me that her husband, George, made an error at the store (mis-read a price tag) that cost him about $40 he wasn't planning to spend.  Not a catastrophe, but an unexpected expense.  George told the story at a family gathering where Susan's parents were present, as a "can you believe this bone-headed, funny thing I did?" anecdote.  Susan's mother immediately launched into a diatribe about how LUCKY Susan and George were to be SOOOO rich that they could make mistakes like that. That a $40 error would have broken Susan's parents' budget and she couldn't believe how WASTEFUL George is.

Susan was so shocked, that like most of the other people in the room, she just stared at her mother in horror.  George told her, "Wow, I think you totally misinterpreted that story."  And then moved on to another topic.

Susan's mother later approached Susan to tell her how nice it would be to give her parents money to help with their bills.  Susan told her no and bean-dipped.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on February 18, 2013, 11:06:10 PM
My mother once called me a stupid idiot for racking up the gargantuan sum of $6 in library fines.   (In my defense, my husband and I were living in a motel with our toddlers at the time, waiting for our new house to be finished, plus I was working two jobs.   So, yeah, I forgot about the library books.)

Saying "It's only six bucks, Mum" was a mistake, as I quickly found out.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PeterM on February 18, 2013, 11:34:39 PM
My mother once called me a stupid idiot for racking up the gargantuan sum of $6 in library fines.   (In my defense, my husband and I were living in a motel with our toddlers at the time, waiting for our new house to be finished, plus I was working two jobs.   So, yeah, I forgot about the library books.)

Saying "It's only six bucks, Mum" was a mistake, as I quickly found out.

I saw a mother/son exchange like that at my library a year or two ago. The son was maybe in his late 20s, and as he checked out I told him he had a few dollars in fines. I forget how many, but very far below the limit where we cut you off. He said he'd pay them another time, which is absolutely okay as far as we're concerned.

His mother did not agree. She lit into him like I'd announced he was harboring bin Laden. I don't remember her exact words, which is a shame because it was a fairly elaborate litany of insults. I do remember that she called both her son himself and his daring to have unpaid fines "disgusting" more than once. Through it all he just stood there like this was far from the first time.

Then it was her turn to check out. She also had fines, more than he did but still well below our limit. I was quite happy to tell her so, though I think I kept my tone neutral. In any case, her response was a nonchalant, "Oh, I'll get them next time."

Working in a library can be like flipping channels when nothing but soap operas are on - you see many little snippets of odd family dramas. We even have a lot of people who come in every day or close to it, so you even get the ongoing storylines. This woman was one of the oddest I can recall, in her way. Something like Alzheimer's that changed her personality seems like the simplest explanation, but it felt like that wasn't all there was to it. I never saw either of them again, so I'll never know.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PastryGoddess on February 19, 2013, 12:00:14 AM
My mother once called me a stupid idiot for racking up the gargantuan sum of $6 in library fines.   (In my defense, my husband and I were living in a motel with our toddlers at the time, waiting for our new house to be finished, plus I was working two jobs.   So, yeah, I forgot about the library books.)

Saying "It's only six bucks, Mum" was a mistake, as I quickly found out.

I saw a mother/son exchange like that at my library a year or two ago. The son was maybe in his late 20s, and as he checked out I told him he had a few dollars in fines. I forget how many, but very far below the limit where we cut you off. He said he'd pay them another time, which is absolutely okay as far as we're concerned.

His mother did not agree. She lit into him like I'd announced he was harboring bin Laden. I don't remember her exact words, which is a shame because it was a fairly elaborate litany of insults. I do remember that she called both her son himself and his daring to have unpaid fines "disgusting" more than once. Through it all he just stood there like this was far from the first time.

Then it was her turn to check out. She also had fines, more than he did but still well below our limit. I was quite happy to tell her so, though I think I kept my tone neutral. In any case, her response was a nonchalant, "Oh, I'll get them next time."

Working in a library can be like flipping channels when nothing but soap operas are on - you see many little snippets of odd family dramas. We even have a lot of people who come in every day or close to it, so you even get the ongoing storylines. This woman was one of the oddest I can recall, in her way. Something like Alzheimer's that changed her personality seems like the simplest explanation, but it felt like that wasn't all there was to it. I never saw either of them again, so I'll never know.


 :o ??? :o ::) :o :-\ :o >:(
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Nora on February 19, 2013, 01:51:44 AM
My mom has a slightly different variation on "you're so bad with money". She knows I'm generally pretty good with money, and she loves to tell me how much better at managing finances I am than her (my phone never gets cut off because I forgot to pay the bill) ad nauseum. She also has a history of offering money/loans to us without being asked. Then at the first sign of trouble she lets rip about how childish and irresponsible I am with money, how I can't expect to lean on her/others, how pathetic etc etc...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: SeptGurl on February 20, 2013, 09:08:47 AM
Meet my dad:

It was 1985. I was 17 and had just graduated from high school. That summer, I bought my first car with money I saved from my part-time job and from graduation gifts. It was not a fancy car. It was very basic transportation that I planned to take to college with me.

My parents had an old early-'70s Dodge as a second car that I'd been using through high school. The week I graduated from high school, the windshield wipers stopped working. As was typical for my parents, they never bothered to get the windshield wipers fixed. What this meant was that the car couldn't be driven when it was raining.

One summer evening, I was planning to pick up my boyfriend in my car and go to a movie. My mother wasn't home, so she'd taken their car. I thought my dad was in the family room, so I called out, "Bye! I'll be back after the movie," and I went out the front door. When I got outside, I saw that my car was gone. Where was my car? Then it dawned on me that it was raining.

I went back in the house and realized I was alone. My dad and brother were both gone. Where were they? Had they taken my car? Was I going to make it in time to pick up my boyfriend and get to the movie before it started?

About 15 minutes later, my dad pulled up in front of the house in my car. I was upset because a) I don't know he'd taken the car, and b) now I was late. His response: "I had to take your brother to Boy Scouts, and it was raining. I couldn't use the Dodge." I explained to him that I had plans, and now I was late. I said I wished he would have told me what he was doing before he took my car. (I could have dropped my brother off on my way to my boyfriend's house.) He blew up at me, saying that he didn't know what I expected him to do. He couldn't drive the Dodge in the rain. I said that I hoped he would talk to me about using my car rather than just taking it because I might have plans. He didn't like that and was steaming mad.

I left in a hurry, picked up my boyfriend, and we walked into the movie as it was starting. I got home later and went straight to bed.

In the morning, I found a note on the kitchen table from my dad. In a nutshell, he told me that he would never, ever use my car again. He would never, ever ask if he could use MY car. Obviously, it was MY car. And I was too selfish to share it. So, he said he planned to use the same tactic on me that he used on my mother with the living room couch. See, she got mad at him once for lying on the living room couch after he'd been outside mowing the lawn. He was all sweaty and gross, and she didn't want him to get the couch dirty. She asked him to move to another piece of furniture. (I remembered the incident because it turned into a big fight, but I didn't know the rest of the story.) In his note to me, he said he vowed from then on that he would never, ever sit on THAT couch again. And he never, ever did. Therefore, because I was so selfish about MY car, he would do the same thing with it and never, ever use it again.

Okay, Dad. Take a stand.  ::)  Don't ever sit on the couch again. Don't ever drive my car again. I took his note, got a pen, and wrote, "Fine with me," and put it on his recliner where he'd see it when he got home. He never, ever drove my car again. Indeed, he got what he said he wanted. I never said another word about it, and neither did he.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on February 20, 2013, 10:10:11 AM
Hey, Coley, I had no idea I had a sister!

Seriously, that sounds like something my dad would do.  He has a history of going off on the deep end and completely blowing things out of proportion like that.

Just for the record, I'm outraged on your behalf.  What a lousy thing to do!  We bought our 18-year-old daughter a car a year ago when she got her license (nothing fancy; it's a used Yaris).  It's always been understood that it is HER car.  Whenever we've had a situation in which we need a second vehicle, I've always asked her if I may borrow it.  When someone at work heard about that, they said "Uh, you paid for it.  You should be able to just use it whenever you want."  I said "We bought it for HER.  I wouldn't like someone to just grab my car and use it without asking; we owe her the same courtesy."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: SeptGurl on February 20, 2013, 10:34:46 AM
Hey, Coley, I had no idea I had a sister!

Seriously, that sounds like something my dad would do.  He has a history of going off on the deep end and completely blowing things out of proportion like that.

Just for the record, I'm outraged on your behalf.  What a lousy thing to do!  We bought our 18-year-old daughter a car a year ago when she got her license (nothing fancy; it's a used Yaris).  It's always been understood that it is HER car.  Whenever we've had a situation in which we need a second vehicle, I've always asked her if I may borrow it.  When someone at work heard about that, they said "Uh, you paid for it.  You should be able to just use it whenever you want."  I said "We bought it for HER.  I wouldn't like someone to just grab my car and use it without asking; we owe her the same courtesy."

I think that's really the crux of the situation. It wasn't that I would have refused if he needed to use the car; it's just that we needed to have some mutual respect about it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Softly Spoken on February 20, 2013, 02:07:42 PM
Coley: I am sorry your Dad took your car without asking, but I have to admit his response to your frustration made me laugh.

My youngest older brother H (who I should put in the Beggars/Moochers/Scammers thread) is the center of his own universe. When he has been "wronged," he loves to use this "punishment." My older middle brother E, who H is currently crashing with and leeching off of, is the one who gets to be on the receiving end of this behavior the most often. He tells me he loves when H pouts and gives him the silent treatment because it means he gets peace and quiet. >:D He tells H to change the tv channel or turn the tv off? H stops using the tv and goes and sulks in 'his' room. Yeah, way to teach E a lesson by giving him his own tv back. ::) H is trying to play the martyr - the massive flaw in his plan is that he assumes everyone else thinks about him as often as he thinks about himself. That same self-involvement is exactly why we can't get through to him that we don't give a rodent's patootie about the problems he's invited on himself.

I just love the empty threats that narcissists dash at our feet. It almost sounds like reverse psychology or something. "I'm never going to use your car and inconvenience you again, and then you'll be sorry." "Um...okay whatever. Thanks Dad!" >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: SeptGurl on February 20, 2013, 03:33:43 PM
Coley: I am sorry your Dad took your car without asking, but I have to admit his response to your frustration made me laugh.

My youngest older brother H (who I should put in the Beggars/Moochers/Scammers thread) is the center of his own universe. When he has been "wronged," he loves to use this "punishment." My older middle brother E, who H is currently crashing with and leeching off of, is the one who gets to be on the receiving end of this behavior the most often. He tells me he loves when H pouts and gives him the silent treatment because it means he gets peace and quiet. >:D He tells H to change the tv channel or turn the tv off? H stops using the tv and goes and sulks in 'his' room. Yeah, way to teach E a lesson by giving him his own tv back. ::) H is trying to play the martyr - the massive flaw in his plan is that he assumes everyone else thinks about him as often as he thinks about himself. That same self-involvement is exactly why we can't get through to him that we don't give a rodent's patootie about the problems he's invited on himself.

I just love the empty threats that narcissists dash at our feet. It almost sounds like reverse psychology or something. "I'm never going to use your car and inconvenience you again, and then you'll be sorry." "Um...okay whatever. Thanks Dad!" >:D

I know! It is funny, especially so many years after the fact. "So, what you're saying is that you're not going to use my car. Yeah, that'll teach me!"

Between that response and the couch story, I couldn't figure out what he thought he was trying to accomplish. Even back then I couldn't get over the couch story. I had no idea he'd even taken a stand about the couch. I don't know whether he verbalized it to my mother. If he did, she didn't seem to care. To my knowledge, no one was aware that he had taken a stand about the couch except me.

My mother is just as bad. I can't tell you how many times she'd get mad and yell that she was just going to move out of the house because she was so unappreciated. Stomping off with a huff and a puff ... She's still there, BTW.  ;)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on February 20, 2013, 04:10:55 PM
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: m2kbug on February 20, 2013, 04:33:19 PM
My mother once called me a stupid idiot for racking up the gargantuan sum of $6 in library fines.   (In my defense, my husband and I were living in a motel with our toddlers at the time, waiting for our new house to be finished, plus I was working two jobs.   So, yeah, I forgot about the library books.)

Saying "It's only six bucks, Mum" was a mistake, as I quickly found out.

Haha!  Never say that to me when my money is on the line here.  Example, trying get a wrong fee reversed or blowing through all my DVRs "trying something":  ONLY SIX BUCKS?  That's two gallons of milk.  That's lunch meet and juice boxes for school lunches for the week.  Don't tell me only six bucks!

On the other hand, as I justify a purchase I probably shouldn't be buying...well, it's only six bucks.   ;D

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: wolfie on February 20, 2013, 04:37:58 PM
My mother is just as bad. I can't tell you how many times she'd get mad and yell that she was just going to move out of the house because she was so unappreciated. Stomping off with a huff and a puff ... She's still there, BTW.  ;)

hahaha! My mom did that once. Huffed that she could just go and visit someone any time and maybe she should go and do that right now. Didn't like it when the response was "okay. Have fun". Didn't pull that one again.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: BB-VA on February 20, 2013, 08:27:24 PM
Hey, Coley, I had no idea I had a sister!

Seriously, that sounds like something my dad would do.  He has a history of going off on the deep end and completely blowing things out of proportion like that.

Just for the record, I'm outraged on your behalf.  What a lousy thing to do!  We bought our 18-year-old daughter a car a year ago when she got her license (nothing fancy; it's a used Yaris).  It's always been understood that it is HER car.  Whenever we've had a situation in which we need a second vehicle, I've always asked her if I may borrow it.  When someone at work heard about that, they said "Uh, you paid for it.  You should be able to just use it whenever you want."  I said "We bought it for HER.  I wouldn't like someone to just grab my car and use it without asking; we owe her the same courtesy."

I think that's really the crux of the situation. It wasn't that I would have refused if he needed to use the car; it's just that we needed to have some mutual respect about it.

Some parents do not believe that children are entitled to their own possessions.  My first stepmother had a little of that trait.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: weeblewobble on February 20, 2013, 09:13:05 PM

My parents had an old early-'70s Dodge as a second car that I'd been using through high school. The week I graduated from high school, the windshield wipers stopped working. As was typical for my parents, they never bothered to get the windshield wipers fixed. What this meant was that the car couldn't be driven when it was raining.

One summer evening, I was planning to pick up my boyfriend in my car and go to a movie. My mother wasn't home, so she'd taken their car. I thought my dad was in the family room, so I called out, "Bye! I'll be back after the movie," and I went out the front door. When I got outside, I saw that my car was gone. Where was my car? Then it dawned on me that it was raining.

I went back in the house and realized I was alone. My dad and brother were both gone. Where were they? Had they taken my car? Was I going to make it in time to pick up my boyfriend and get to the movie before it started?

About 15 minutes later, my dad pulled up in front of the house in my car. I was upset because a) I don't know he'd taken the car, and b) now I was late. His response: "I had to take your brother to Boy Scouts, and it was raining. I couldn't use the Dodge." I explained to him that I had plans, and now I was late. I said I wished he would have told me what he was doing before he took my car. (I could have dropped my brother off on my way to my boyfriend's house.) He blew up at me, saying that he didn't know what I expected him to do.

I know it would be disrespectful, but I think my response probably would have been, "REPLACE YOUR WINDSHIELD WIPERS, MAYBE?"

I love my dad, and we have a really good relationship now.  But he had a few moments sort of like this when I was growing up, in which I was given a choice to do whatever I thought was appropriate, and then when my choice didn't line up with my dad's values, he blew up on me.  I felt like I was being set up to have a bad reaction so he could correct me.  He was so convinced that I was an irresponsible flibbitygibbit* that he put me in that position, so he could be sure that I would receive a "life lesson lecture."

Episode 1) I decide that I'm going to try out for a fun extracurricular activity as its my senior year of high school and my last chance to participate. Dad didn't think this was a good idea, as he thought I already had too much on my plate with my classes and the activities I was already doing, but he "left it up to me" to decide whether it was good idea for me to try out.  I looked at my schedule, decided the opportunity was important enough to me to devote my time and energy to it.  I told my parents.  Mom said, OK, but we expect your grades to stay up.  Dad stayed silent and stewed... then woke me up at 4:45 the next morning before he went to work so we could have a long heart-to-heart talk about why my trying out for the activity was an irresponsible choice.  When I didn't respond to this lecture in the way he thought I should (i.e. being fully awake, responding with thoughtful, mature comments and agreeing with him) he said this was another example of me being spacey and irresponsible. 

I stood up, told him that he had to wait until after 6 a.m. for thoughtful, mature responses and went back to bed.  That made him really angry, but he "washed his hands" of the situation. I tried out for the activity, participated, kept my grades up, all the while my dad predicted academic doom.

Episode 2) I was very heavily involved in Activity A since middle school.  My parents were very active in the booster club.  I was one of the more dependable kids in Activity A and never missed a practice.  My mom and I went on a long, very tiring trip, the last day of which happened to overlap with a scheduled practice.  I checked with the coach while the trip was being planned and he was fine with me missing one practice. 

Mom and I happened to get back a day early from the long, tiring trip, about an hour before the practice was supposed to start.  Dad said it was up to me to decide whether I would go to practice.  But it was clear he expected me to immediately turn around, get in my car and cheerfully drive to practice, since I was able to go. I told him no, I was hot and tired from the long trip and I'd already cleared the absence with the coach, so I was going to eat some dinner and shower and probably go to bed. 

Dad. Was. Incensed.

How could I shirk my responsibilities to the coach and the team?  How could I be so irresponsible and flaky?  How could I even thinking of missing a practice after all the hard work HE put in with the boosters? 

I told him that if the coach was OK with it, that was good enough for me.  And then I was treated to a lecture about how "good enough" wasn't a way to approach life.

I didn't go to practice.  I did invite dad to spend less time with the boosters, if it was such a burden.

*I'm not saying I wasn't a little irresponsible and spacey, but I was a 17 year old.   Show me a 17 year old that isn't.  And I know I'm making my dad sound awful.  He really is a good guy.  He just had no clue how to talk to me.   We are of absolutely polar opposite personalities and he doesn't understand how I process problems or information.  I think he was so terrified that I would turn out flaky and silly that he over-compensated with "instruction."

Ironically, I turned out to be the most responsible of his children.  Now that he sees that, and the way I've taken care of my children, my spouse and several other family members, he treats me with a heck of a lot more respect.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Katana_Geldar on February 20, 2013, 09:45:48 PM
That reminds me of something my stepfather said to me. I was home at 10pm from work, starving and with low blood sugar and he wanted to have a serious conversation about something to me. I asked politely if he could wait until I finished my dinner, as I could give him a better response, and he told me that I was being selfish.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PastryGoddess on February 20, 2013, 10:58:06 PM
That reminds me of something my stepfather said to me. I was home at 10pm from work, starving and with low blood sugar and he wanted to have a serious conversation about something to me. I asked politely if he could wait until I finished my dinner, as I could give him a better response, and he told me that I was being selfish.

You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

I know with me the only thing that is guaranteed to happen is that my nice filter will be malfunctioning and my responses will be along the vein of bullet point answers and RAWWWWR HUNGER NOM NOM SLEEP.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 21, 2013, 06:04:51 AM
When I'm extremely tired either one of two things happens.   I'll get extremely silly and laugh like a loon if someone says "boo" or bawl like a baby because someone said "boo."

Either way, you're not getting a logical conversation out of me! If I'm really hungry and you insist on keeping me from food, as it is in cartoons, you may start looking like a chicken leg.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: o_gal on February 21, 2013, 06:52:19 AM
You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

Some (evil) people do it on purpose to get you to try to agree with them, knowing your defenses will be down.

My junior year of college, my roommate was a sophomore who had a disastrous rel*tionship in her freshman year. This guy would not leave her alone, isolated her from friends and activities, and pretty much psychologically abused her. She was a wreck leaving school at the end of the year, but once she was away from him for the summer, she rebounded. She came back and told him it was over but he wanted her back. He would come to our room at 6am and wake her up and beg and plead with her for usually an hour or more (I was usually already up but it still annoyed me). It wore her down and one day I came back to the room to find her and all her stuff gone. The RA was aware of what was going on and called her parents, who came and rescued her. She transferred to another school so he wouldn't know where she was.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: BabyMama on February 21, 2013, 07:41:19 AM
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on February 21, 2013, 08:57:42 AM
Quote
You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

I once came home from university at around 10:00 p.m. with a burger and fries in hand, because I was exhausted and starving and all I could think about was feeding my face.  My dad decided to sit at the table to "keep me company".  Now, I have this weird quirk in that I absolutely HATE to have someone sitting watching me eat if they're not eating themselves, plus I had a good book that I wanted to read.  I politely said that I'd rather be on my own, thanks, and he lost his temper and stormed off in a huff.  Ah well, at least I was able to eat in peace.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: siamesecat2965 on February 21, 2013, 11:13:38 AM
When I'm extremely tired either one of two things happens.   I'll get extremely silly and laugh like a loon if someone says "boo" or bawl like a baby because someone said "boo."

Either way, you're not getting a logical conversation out of me! If I'm really hungry and you insist on keeping me from food, as it is in cartoons, you may start looking like a chicken leg.

I thought I was the only one who bawled like a two year old when I was overly tired!  I've found the older I get (I'm 47) the more tired I am, the less it takes to set me off. I was soooo tired one night at my second job, and could barely funciton, I was dying. Thankfully, it was during the summer, and the college girl who had worked all day, wanted the money, so she worked a double and  Igot to go home. i could have kissed her.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: LazyDaisy on February 21, 2013, 11:24:07 AM
You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

Some (evil) people do it on purpose to get you to try to agree with them, knowing your defenses will be down.

Agreed. It puts them in a position of power: you'll eat when they say you can eat, you'll sleep when they let you sleep.

That strategy backfires on people who try it with me. I get giddily talkative and figgity when I'm overly tired or hungry. I even know I'm doing it and Can't Shut Up. I imagine for the other person it's like having a heart-to-heart with a squirrel on red bull.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 21, 2013, 11:31:59 AM
When I'm extremely tired either one of two things happens.   I'll get extremely silly and laugh like a loon if someone says "boo" or bawl like a baby because someone said "boo."

Either way, you're not getting a logical conversation out of me! If I'm really hungry and you insist on keeping me from food, as it is in cartoons, you may start looking like a chicken leg.

I thought I was the only one who bawled like a two year old when I was overly tired!  I've found the older I get (I'm 47) the more tired I am, the less it takes to set me off. I was soooo tired one night at my second job, and could barely funciton, I was dying. Thankfully, it was during the summer, and the college girl who had worked all day, wanted the money, so she worked a double and  Igot to go home. i could have kissed her.

No, you're not the only one by a long shot.  My best friend is like that too, especially when she's burnt out.  We refer to it as having a brick wall fall down on us when you're so worn out and burnt out and tired that you just don't know what to do with yourself.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: bloo on February 21, 2013, 11:40:44 AM
You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

Some (evil) people do it on purpose to get you to try to agree with them, knowing your defenses will be down.

Agreed. It puts them in a position of power: you'll eat when they say you can eat, you'll sleep when they let you sleep.

That strategy backfires on people who try it with me. I get giddily talkative and figgity when I'm overly tired or hungry. I even know I'm doing it and Can't Shut Up. I imagine for the other person it's like having a heart-to-heart with a squirrel on red bull.

The bolded reminded me of a clip from one of my fave movies (Hoodwinked!): Squirrel on coffee...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCjMRAzCiE
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: tiff019 on February 21, 2013, 11:59:11 AM
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MrTango on February 21, 2013, 01:45:32 PM
You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

Some (evil) people do it on purpose to get you to try to agree with them, knowing your defenses will be down.

Agreed. It puts them in a position of power: you'll eat when they say you can eat, you'll sleep when they let you sleep.

That strategy backfires on people who try it with me. I get giddily talkative and figgity when I'm overly tired or hungry. I even know I'm doing it and Can't Shut Up. I imagine for the other person it's like having a heart-to-heart with a squirrel on red bull.

It backfires with me also.  Instead of Rational, Logical MrTango, they get a very angry, irrational, and defensive MrTango.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: mmswm on February 21, 2013, 02:10:53 PM
You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

Some (evil) people do it on purpose to get you to try to agree with them, knowing your defenses will be down.

Agreed. It puts them in a position of power: you'll eat when they say you can eat, you'll sleep when they let you sleep.

That strategy backfires on people who try it with me. I get giddily talkative and figgity when I'm overly tired or hungry. I even know I'm doing it and Can't Shut Up. I imagine for the other person it's like having a heart-to-heart with a squirrel on red bull.

It backfires with me also.  Instead of Rational, Logical MrTango, they get a very angry, irrational, and defensive MrTango.

I turn into an angry, rage-filled cave man (er, woman).  It's not pretty.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: twiggy on February 21, 2013, 02:13:20 PM
^^ I end up giggling and responding to everything with "your face"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: snowflake on February 21, 2013, 02:44:13 PM
You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

Some (evil) people do it on purpose to get you to try to agree with them, knowing your defenses will be down.

Agreed. It puts them in a position of power: you'll eat when they say you can eat, you'll sleep when they let you sleep.

That strategy backfires on people who try it with me. I get giddily talkative and figgity when I'm overly tired or hungry. I even know I'm doing it and Can't Shut Up. I imagine for the other person it's like having a heart-to-heart with a squirrel on red bull.

It backfires with me also.  Instead of Rational, Logical MrTango, they get a very angry, irrational, and defensive MrTango.

I turn into an angry, rage-filled cave man (er, woman).  It's not pretty.

The people in my life who have done this know I'm tetchy when tired/hungry.  They do it on purpose so they can say, "Well I TRIED to be reasonable/ talk things out/ have a heart-to-heart but you were hostile and therefore I'm not going to try to be a decent person.  They then take it as a carte blanche to behave any way they see fit.

I think that's a tried and true tactic for some people.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Giggity on February 21, 2013, 04:29:46 PM
Could we please take the "this happens when I get tired" stories to their own thread?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: m2kbug on February 21, 2013, 05:12:49 PM
My exhusband was PA.  His big one was to ignore and grump around when he was upset about something.  It didn't necessarily have to be something I did (maybe he was upset about something at work), but of course I assumed it was me (and it usually was).  I would spend a lot of time asking "what's wrong," and his response was always, "Nothing."  "Why are you mad?"  "I'm not mad."  It would eventually come out, but not for days, weeks, months, usually in a fight where I would get blamed for any number of things.  The thing is, there were times I had no idea what he was talking about.  Or I didn't remember enough detail about the situation to explain what happened.  Meanwhile, he had several days/weeks/months to stew and brew and create his own assumptions and "reality" of the situation.  How can you explain yourself when he already knows "exactly what happened" and you can't remember the thing that got him upset in the first place?  How many issues could be resolved if he brought it up right away?

He would also yell something nasty or leave a nasty note and walk out the door...gone. 

Bottom line, though, this was part of his abuse, which escalated when I started calling him on his behavior or not responding to it.  I spent so much time worrying about what I was doing wrong and trying to fix it, as if I could read his mind, at some point you give up.  So as I'm sure you guessed, the marriage ended and what a breath of fresh air, I'm still giddy not being under that weight anymore, 10  years later.  :)

I had a boyfriend give me a gift certificate as a Christmas gift, then got mad that I didn't spend it on him.  :o 

I'm sure I can come up with more.  Some of these stories are nuts!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Gwywnnydd on February 21, 2013, 09:12:44 PM
I imagine for the other person it's like having a heart-to-heart with a squirrel on red bull.

The bolded reminded me of a clip from one of my fave movies (Hoodwinked!): Squirrel on coffee...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCjMRAzCiE

Hammy and the energy drink... http://youtu.be/0sGlETQIMUo (http://youtu.be/0sGlETQIMUo)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Cz. Burrito on February 21, 2013, 10:27:42 PM
That reminds me of something my stepfather said to me. I was home at 10pm from work, starving and with low blood sugar and he wanted to have a serious conversation about something to me. I asked politely if he could wait until I finished my dinner, as I could give him a better response, and he told me that I was being selfish.

You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

I know with me the only thing that is guaranteed to happen is that my nice filter will be malfunctioning and my responses will be along the vein of bullet point answers and RAWWWWR HUNGER NOM NOM SLEEP.

My ex-husband used to wake me up at midnight to have serious discussions and extract promises from me. Then he would later accuse me of betraying him and lying to him when I didn't keep said promises that I didn't even remember making and probably only mumbled mm-hmm to so that I could GO BACK TO SLEEP.

I've recently been tracking my sleep patterns and found that I have a 90-minute segment of super deep sleep around midnight every night, so he was waking me from a *dead* sleep.

EX-husband.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Minmom3 on February 21, 2013, 10:37:51 PM
When I'm extremely tired either one of two things happens.   I'll get extremely silly and laugh like a loon if someone says "boo" or bawl like a baby because someone said "boo."

Either way, you're not getting a logical conversation out of me! If I'm really hungry and you insist on keeping me from food, as it is in cartoons, you may start looking like a chicken leg.

That's when the word "hangry" starts to have a DEEP and SERIOUS meaning....   >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: FlyingBaconMouse on February 22, 2013, 10:14:14 AM
That reminds me of something my stepfather said to me. I was home at 10pm from work, starving and with low blood sugar and he wanted to have a serious conversation about something to me. I asked politely if he could wait until I finished my dinner, as I could give him a better response, and he told me that I was being selfish.

You know I never understand people who want to have a heart to heart/serious conversation when people are hungry and tired. 

I know with me the only thing that is guaranteed to happen is that my nice filter will be malfunctioning and my responses will be along the vein of bullet point answers and RAWWWWR HUNGER NOM NOM SLEEP.

My ex-husband used to wake me up at midnight to have serious discussions and extract promises from me. Then he would later accuse me of betraying him and lying to him when I didn't keep said promises that I didn't even remember making and probably only mumbled mm-hmm to so that I could GO BACK TO SLEEP.

I've recently been tracking my sleep patterns and found that I have a 90-minute segment of super deep sleep around midnight every night, so he was waking me from a *dead* sleep.

EX-husband.

Oh, gosh. I was in a long relationship with the won't-let-me-eat/sleep abuser and eventually divorced Mr. That's-Not-What-You-Said-At-One a.m.-Last-Night. Who knew there was a whole squad out there??
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Allyson on February 22, 2013, 10:25:02 AM
My boyfriend's ex-girlfriend was another 'It's 4 AM, now is the time for Serious Discussions!' And she would often be upset about something that there was *no way* of fixing at that time, then get mad that he didn't care enough to do anything about it. Something to do with finances would be the most common, and she'd insist it need to get dealt with *right away*...despite everything being closed, and the situation having been happening for the last few days anyhow...surely it could wait another 6 hours...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on February 22, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
I imagine for the other person it's like having a heart-to-heart with a squirrel on red bull.

The bolded reminded me of a clip from one of my fave movies (Hoodwinked!): Squirrel on coffee...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCjMRAzCiE

Hammy and the energy drink... http://youtu.be/0sGlETQIMUo (http://youtu.be/0sGlETQIMUo)

"Whoa, dude, the LAST thing you need is caffeine."  It's a dumb movie, but I love it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: LazyDaisy on February 22, 2013, 10:51:23 AM
lol. Yes, I am giving the PA person what they want -- they want to talk to me when I'm hungry or tired...they got it. But once they get me going, they won't be able to shut me up. I don't usually get angry or nasty just so unfocused that they won't be able to have the conversation they want.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: CrochetFanatic on February 22, 2013, 10:57:01 AM
Has anyone ever had a situation where you gave the PA person what he/she wanted--for example, saying "Okay" in response to "Well, fine.  I'll just do it myself/stay out of it/whatever"--and had that person get angry that you called their bluff?  I can't tell you how many times I've had that happen, responded with "Okay", and had whoever I was arguing with round on me and say, "No, you're not supposed to answer me with that!"

Short version: Ever had the other person throw a tantrum when you don't follow the script?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on February 22, 2013, 11:44:25 AM
I've been on the opposite end:

Co-worker:  How's it going?
Me:  Ugh, don't ask.
Co-worker:  Okay.  *walks away*

I always thought that "don't ask" wasn't supposed to be taken literally, but maybe it's just me.   :D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Winterlight on February 22, 2013, 11:46:33 AM
Has anyone ever had a situation where you gave the PA person what he/she wanted--for example, saying "Okay" in response to "Well, fine.  I'll just do it myself/stay out of it/whatever"--and had that person get angry that you called their bluff?  I can't tell you how many times I've had that happen, responded with "Okay", and had whoever I was arguing with round on me and say, "No, you're not supposed to answer me with that!"

Short version: Ever had the other person throw a tantrum when you don't follow the script?

Yep. My response? "Tough nuggies." PA does not make me want to cooperate with you, even if your request is reasonable. Heck, if you have a possibly silly request and you ask nicely, I may very well do it. Play games, and I'm done.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AfleetAlex on February 22, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
I'm thinking this is PA but I'm not sure exactly how to give them what they want or what they hoped to accomplish (but it seems to fit the theme of our conversation at this point, so here you go). Twice I've had someone decide that the time to start having a serious discussion about their family (in other words, not about me) was when I absolutely could not give them my full attention.

Once was in the car with my mom. I was navigating an icy stretch of freeway with lots of slideoffs, and this is the time she wants to talk about how worried she is about her sister's health.

And once was with a very good friend. We had dropped another friend off at Ready Care because she'd sprained her ankle. I had to grab something to eat (I get low blood sugar), get 1st friend back to her car and then get 2nd friend from Ready Care. 1st friend wants to linger over fast food and talk in depth about the problems her family is having. I finally had to cut her off and remind her that 2nd friend was waiting at Ready Care.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Winterlight on February 22, 2013, 12:20:33 PM
I don't know if the first one is PA but it's certainly bad timing.

The second might be- does FirstFriend make a habit of this? Knowing you've got to hustle and insisting you spend extra time with her?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AfleetAlex on February 22, 2013, 12:46:19 PM
On the whole, no, although I can now think of one other time she wanted to start a serious discussion when I had to go elsewhere. She's normally a very generous and giving person, so these few-and-far-between moments of wanting my attention when my attention clearly has to be elsewhere are a little weird.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: snowflake on February 22, 2013, 02:45:25 PM
I'm thinking this is PA but I'm not sure exactly how to give them what they want or what they hoped to accomplish (but it seems to fit the theme of our conversation at this point, so here you go). Twice I've had someone decide that the time to start having a serious discussion about their family (in other words, not about me) was when I absolutely could not give them my full attention.

Once was in the car with my mom. I was navigating an icy stretch of freeway with lots of slideoffs, and this is the time she wants to talk about how worried she is about her sister's health.

I would say it depends on the situation.  I know someone who does stuff like this regularly.  Part of it is that she is just not a very appropriate person.  Certain life experiences make her just plain insensitive to things like timing.  But part of it is that she is a very insecure person.  So there are times when I can say, "Not now, I'm dealing with a huge issue."  And she'll say.  "OK."  But there are other times when it's clear that she has purposefully timed things to see if I will prioritize her over other things in my life.  An example of this is that she would regularly call me at work just to see if I'd drop work (no matter what kind of crisis I was in) for her.  Or she would call me right after a death in the family and try and get me to skip out of the funeral to take care of her.  She also has done the talk when I'm hungry and tired but it's not to get me to agree to anything.  It's to see if I will prioritize her above my basic needs.

I think the most telling thing is the follow up.  If she says, "Can we talk about X now?" and is reasonable than I figure the earlier behavior was just her being unaware.  But sometimes it's "Well I TRIED to talk about X with you and you didn't want to." or "You don't care about me." or "You love your job more than you love me."  Then I know it was a passive-aggressive tactic.   
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: blue2000 on February 22, 2013, 06:17:28 PM
Has anyone ever had a situation where you gave the PA person what he/she wanted--for example, saying "Okay" in response to "Well, fine.  I'll just do it myself/stay out of it/whatever"--and had that person get angry that you called their bluff?  I can't tell you how many times I've had that happen, responded with "Okay", and had whoever I was arguing with round on me and say, "No, you're not supposed to answer me with that!"

Short version: Ever had the other person throw a tantrum when you don't follow the script?

Just had one. I have a relative who has a long history of feuding with people. They decided that I was mad at them, and therefore not speaking to them, so they weren't going to talk to me. Not true, but whatever. ::) Not going to argue the point.

They recently broke their silence and sent a message to someone else that they weren't speaking to to give me a message that they want me to talk to them. Dude. Really. This isn't a James Bond movie. You couldn't just pick up the dang phone and say hello??
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: weeblewobble on February 22, 2013, 06:44:00 PM
Has anyone ever had a situation where you gave the PA person what he/she wanted--for example, saying "Okay" in response to "Well, fine.  I'll just do it myself/stay out of it/whatever"--and had that person get angry that you called their bluff?  I can't tell you how many times I've had that happen, responded with "Okay", and had whoever I was arguing with round on me and say, "No, you're not supposed to answer me with that!"

Short version: Ever had the other person throw a tantrum when you don't follow the script?

When we were still pregnant with our daughter, we decided not to let DH's sister babysit (or be alone with DD) for multiple reasons dealing with her mental health/behavior.  She expected to babysit DD, have DD sleep at her apartment, etc.  When we told her this was not going to happen, she initially "forgave us" for our decision. (A whole 'nother thread) But for months afterward, whenever the family was talking about our (not-born-yet) baby, she would sigh, "Well, I'm never going to have the relationship I want with my niece, so I'm not even going to bother trying to spend time with her." or "Well, since Weeblewobble and Mr. Weeble don't want me anywhere near the baby, I'll just stay home and wait until she's a few weeks old before I visit her."

We would say, "OK, then" or "That's your choice." instead of falling all over ourselves to assure her that wasn't what we meant.  She had a meltdown about how "mean" and "hateful" we were to say she would be such a uninvolved aunt.  We pretty much ignored it. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Anyanka on February 22, 2013, 08:45:32 PM

Once was in the car with my mom. I was navigating an icy stretch of freeway with lots of slideoffs, and this is the time she wants to talk about how worried she is about her sister's health.


Mine once grabbed the steering wheel while I was driving in a snow-storm simply because I wasn't worried about  her leaving in the next few days. :o
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: mmswm on February 22, 2013, 08:53:53 PM

Once was in the car with my mom. I was navigating an icy stretch of freeway with lots of slideoffs, and this is the time she wants to talk about how worried she is about her sister's health.


Mine once grabbed the steering wheel while I was driving in a snow-storm simply because I wasn't worried about  her leaving in the next few days. :o

I had a similar experience because I wasn't worried enough about making it home or to a shelter in a hurricane.  Rita, to be exact.  It hadn't gotten bad yet, but it was still dicey.  Trust me, I was worried enough.  So worried, in fact, that I wasn't talking. This was apparently offensive.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Miss Tickle on February 22, 2013, 11:52:47 PM
We used to entertain the people in the apartment next door for dinner on a regular basis. The female half at least, because after a while I stopped hosting her BF.  She'd devour everything, he'd complain, and the complaints were just nitpicky little things. I will go out of my way to accommodate a sensitivity, will outright tell the allergic they can't eat my food (can't guarantee a peanut free dish for example because DH likes peanut oil), but when someone can't find anything nice to say, to the point of grumbling at the table, well, you don't want to burden them with your obviously subpar cooking.  So, his GF and I agreed we'd only burden her, and only when he wasn't home for dinner anyway.

And boy was he mad about that!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: CrochetFanatic on February 23, 2013, 01:42:59 PM
We used to entertain the people in the apartment next door for dinner on a regular basis. The female half at least, because after a while I stopped hosting her BF.  She'd devour everything, he'd complain, and the complaints were just nitpicky little things. I will go out of my way to accommodate a sensitivity, will outright tell the allergic they can't eat my food (can't guarantee a peanut free dish for example because DH likes peanut oil), but when someone can't find anything nice to say, to the point of grumbling at the table, well, you don't want to burden them with your obviously subpar cooking.  So, his GF and I agreed we'd only burden her, and only when he wasn't home for dinner anyway.

And boy was he mad about that!

I take it he was complaining because the things he could eat weren't what he wanted, and he was taking it out on his girlfriend?

Some people are just hard to please, no matter what you do.  If you tried to accommodate him, he should have been gracious about it.  I spent the night at a friend's house with a couple of other people for New Year's Eve several years ago, and she sliced up some apple in the morning and made us scrambled eggs.  The eggs...were awful.  But it was nice of her to cook for us, and everyone appreciated it.  (I stopped off for a breakfast sandwich afterwards, and didn't tell her.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Otterpop on February 23, 2013, 02:04:46 PM
I just had a new tenant, not moved in yet, leave me several messages in the space of 2 hours about a "serious leak that needed prompt attention."  Unfortunately I'd left my phone in its charger and was out marketing (VERY unusual for me to be without my phone).  After I returned home I saw the messages and tried to call him back but he was not answering, nor responding to texts.  His last message to me was that the place was being destroyed by water, it was "uninhabitable" and he wanted all his money back.

I then raced over to his still empty place, thinking there was water running down the walls, stains on the ceiling, only to find the place completely dry and still freshly renovated.  There was a wet paper towel under the sink but that was all.  My normal response would be to call a plumber and apologize profusely to the tenant.  Instead, my husband said "Give him his cash and get the keys back immediately.  If he goes ballistic about a drip from the U-joint under the sink, imagine what a nightmare he will be if something really serious goes wrong."

I called the plumber who fixed the sink in 10 minutes.  Then sent an e-mail to the tenant about where we could meet to exchange money and keys.  Cue a phone call from said tenant who was sputtering about really liking the place but could not abide a leak.  I sympathized and told him I understood, I did not expect him to stay.  I did not tell him the leak was fixed.

Cost me 1 month's rent (place is already leased again but for next month) but worth every penny.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PeterM on February 23, 2013, 04:04:00 PM
When we were still pregnant with our daughter, we decided not to let DH's sister babysit (or be alone with DD) for multiple reasons dealing with her mental health/behavior.  She expected to babysit DD, have DD sleep at her apartment, etc.  When we told her this was not going to happen, she initially "forgave us" for our decision. (A whole 'nother thread) But for months afterward, whenever the family was talking about our (not-born-yet) baby, she would sigh, "Well, I'm never going to have the relationship I want with my niece, so I'm not even going to bother trying to spend time with her." or "Well, since Weeblewobble and Mr. Weeble don't want me anywhere near the baby, I'll just stay home and wait until she's a few weeks old before I visit her."

We would say, "OK, then" or "That's your choice." instead of falling all over ourselves to assure her that wasn't what we meant.  She had a meltdown about how "mean" and "hateful" we were to say she would be such a uninvolved aunt.  We pretty much ignored it.

Is this the woman who wanted to practice chiropracty(sp?) on a newborn? Or is it a different nitwit altogether? Lord knows there are enough of them out there.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MariaE on February 23, 2013, 04:06:08 PM
I just had a new tenant, not moved in yet, leave me several messages in the space of 2 hours about a "serious leak that needed prompt attention."  Unfortunately I'd left my phone in its charger and was out marketing (VERY unusual for me to be without my phone).  After I returned home I saw the messages and tried to call him back but he was not answering, nor responding to texts.  His last message to me was that the place was being destroyed by water, it was "uninhabitable" and he wanted all his money back.

I then raced over to his still empty place, thinking there was water running down the walls, stains on the ceiling, only to find the place completely dry and still freshly renovated.  There was a wet paper towel under the sink but that was all.  My normal response would be to call a plumber and apologize profusely to the tenant.  Instead, my husband said "Give him his cash and get the keys back immediately.  If he goes ballistic about a drip from the U-joint under the sink, imagine what a nightmare he will be if something really serious goes wrong."

I called the plumber who fixed the sink in 10 minutes.  Then sent an e-mail to the tenant about where we could meet to exchange money and keys.  Cue a phone call from said tenant who was sputtering about really liking the place but could not abide a leak.  I sympathized and told him I understood, I did not expect him to stay.  I did not tell him the leak was fixed.

Cost me 1 month's rent (place is already leased again but for next month) but worth every penny.

Wow... good riddance.

Yeah, sounds like you dodged a bullet there.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MrTango on February 23, 2013, 04:47:15 PM

Once was in the car with my mom. I was navigating an icy stretch of freeway with lots of slideoffs, and this is the time she wants to talk about how worried she is about her sister's health.


Mine once grabbed the steering wheel while I was driving in a snow-storm simply because I wasn't worried about  her leaving in the next few days. :o

If someone did that to me, I'd stop the car, kick them out on the side of the road, and drive away.  Wouldn't matter if it was pouring rain, hailing, or in the middle of a blizzard.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: weeblewobble on February 23, 2013, 07:03:01 PM
When we were still pregnant with our daughter, we decided not to let DH's sister babysit (or be alone with DD) for multiple reasons dealing with her mental health/behavior.  She expected to babysit DD, have DD sleep at her apartment, etc.  When we told her this was not going to happen, she initially "forgave us" for our decision. (A whole 'nother thread) But for months afterward, whenever the family was talking about our (not-born-yet) baby, she would sigh, "Well, I'm never going to have the relationship I want with my niece, so I'm not even going to bother trying to spend time with her." or "Well, since Weeblewobble and Mr. Weeble don't want me anywhere near the baby, I'll just stay home and wait until she's a few weeks old before I visit her."

We would say, "OK, then" or "That's your choice." instead of falling all over ourselves to assure her that wasn't what we meant.  She had a meltdown about how "mean" and "hateful" we were to say she would be such a uninvolved aunt.  We pretty much ignored it.

Is this the woman who wanted to practice chiropracty(sp?) on a newborn? Or is it a different nitwit altogether? Lord knows there are enough of them out there'.

Oh, no, different SIL all together.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Deetee on February 23, 2013, 08:23:31 PM
I just had a new tenant, not moved in yet, leave me several messages in the space of 2 hours about a "serious leak that needed prompt attention."  Unfortunately I'd left my phone in its charger and was out marketing (VERY unusual for me to be without my phone).  After I returned home I saw the messages and tried to call him back but he was not answering, nor responding to texts.  His last message to me was that the place was being destroyed by water, it was "uninhabitable" and he wanted all his money back.

I then raced over to his still empty place, thinking there was water running down the walls, stains on the ceiling, only to find the place completely dry and still freshly renovated.  There was a wet paper towel under the sink but that was all.  My normal response would be to call a plumber and apologize profusely to the tenant.  Instead, my husband said "Give him his cash and get the keys back immediately.  If he goes ballistic about a drip from the U-joint under the sink, imagine what a nightmare he will be if something really serious goes wrong."

I called the plumber who fixed the sink in 10 minutes.  Then sent an e-mail to the tenant about where we could meet to exchange money and keys.  Cue a phone call from said tenant who was sputtering about really liking the place but could not abide a leak.  I sympathized and told him I understood, I did not expect him to stay.  I did not tell him the leak was fixed.

Cost me 1 month's rent (place is already leased again but for next month) but worth every penny.

That sounds like exactly the right decision. Your husband (and you ) were correct. One month lost rent is nothing compared to the agony that tenent would have caused you.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Otterpop on February 23, 2013, 11:22:02 PM
Thank you MariaE and Deetee.  I feel better about getting rid of him 2 days into a 1 year lease.  He seemed perplexed when I was agreeing with him and practically shoving the money into his hand.  His poor wife was making excuses for his plethora of angry messages.  She speculated that I had more hidden plumbing issues and the place would be upended for weeks.  I just said "Oh yes, I might have to tear up the walls.  Good thing you didn't move your furniture in.  Sign here please, don't want to waste any more of your time.  Buh Bye!"

We all should do this more often to PA people.  Just give them what they want *rubs hands* Muahahahaha.  Then come here and post your victories.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Miss Tickle on February 24, 2013, 01:15:26 AM
We used to entertain the people in the apartment next door for dinner on a regular basis. The female half at least, because after a while I stopped hosting her BF.  She'd devour everything, he'd complain, and the complaints were just nitpicky little things. I will go out of my way to accommodate a sensitivity, will outright tell the allergic they can't eat my food (can't guarantee a peanut free dish for example because DH likes peanut oil), but when someone can't find anything nice to say, to the point of grumbling at the table, well, you don't want to burden them with your obviously subpar cooking.  So, his GF and I agreed we'd only burden her, and only when he wasn't home for dinner anyway.

And boy was he mad about that!

I take it he was complaining because the things he could eat weren't what he wanted, and he was taking it out on his girlfriend?

Some people are just hard to please, no matter what you do.  If you tried to accommodate him, he should have been gracious about it.  I spent the night at a friend's house with a couple of other people for New Year's Eve several years ago, and she sliced up some apple in the morning and made us scrambled eggs.  The eggs...were awful.  But it was nice of her to cook for us, and everyone appreciated it.  (I stopped off for a breakfast sandwich afterwards, and didn't tell her.)

Oh, no, he has no allergies or anything like that, it's more like he'd say, "I didn't feel like having chicken tonight", "I prefer lasagna to spaghetti and meatballs, but this is okay I guess", or, "Oh, it's okay, but I don't like really vegetables."  That last one was particularly funny; I made a ratatouille to have with duck and my GF begged an invitation for dinner. They came over but he was angry and grouchy and came out with the vegetable comment.  It wasn't true, we all knew it, and we couldn't figure out why he'd say that. That was the PA remark that stopped the gravy train for a good long while.

When she left him she'd still come over all the time and eat with us, and eventually so did he, (not together, and my DH told me he didn't deserve it) but he never complained again. It was something between them, which is why I thought it was PA of him to take it out on me.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Sophia on February 24, 2013, 02:40:17 PM
In college I was a waitress at a nice independent Italian place.  Food was really good. One guy came in EVERY evening and complained.  I remember one of his complaints was that the size of the fettucini was wrong.  I knew he was just complaining so I just nodded my head and went "ah ha".  After about a week or two, he stopped coming.  We were across the highway from a business hotel so that was common, and I was happy he was gone.  Then after about 3-4 weeks of absence, he came back and apologized for being gone and said he'd been in the hospital.  Then the next breath he complained about something.  I just looked at him like he had two heads.  He stopped complaining. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: siamesecat2965 on February 24, 2013, 03:18:52 PM
In college I was a waitress at a nice independent Italian place.  Food was really good. One guy came in EVERY evening and complained.  I remember one of his complaints was that the size of the fettucini was wrong.  I knew he was just complaining so I just nodded my head and went "ah ha".  After about a week or two, he stopped coming.  We were across the highway from a business hotel so that was common, and I was happy he was gone.  Then after about 3-4 weeks of absence, he came back and apologized for being gone and said he'd been in the hospital.  Then the next breath he complained about something.  I just looked at him like he had two heads.  He stopped complaining.

we have a customer in my store who complains, in minute detail, about everything. the quality of the merchandise, the styles, the ways things are made, pants lined or not, pockets being see-through on ivory pants, and much more nitpicky things like that.  She once brought back a pair of shoes because, and I kid you not, the stiching on the front, was literally a half a milimeter off from an identical pair in another color she had purchased. really?

we all jokingly call her "she who must not be named" because i swear every time you mention her name, she comes in. i've learned that while I can't be outright rude and ignore her, if i sort of walk and talk with her, but still keep doing what I'm doing, she gets tired of waiting for my undivided attention, and leaves. that's not to say i won't help her with her numerous returns when she's unsatisfied with the stuff she's bought, but I keep it professional, don't engage any more than I have to, and as soon as I'm done, I move away as soon as i can.

I sooo want to ask her, if you think our merchandise is so poor, and you ahve nothing good to say about it, WHY do you continue shopping here????????
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: CrochetFanatic on February 24, 2013, 04:09:10 PM
Retail therapy would be my guess, but who knows?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Library Dragon on February 24, 2013, 05:35:19 PM
There was PA in charge of one church committee and every time she didn't get her way on a non-related matter she would threaten to resign.  The pastor and other parish council members would pacify her and beg her not to quit.  At one council meeting this was going on.  I waited til there was a quiet moment and said, 'I think we need to be respectful of PA's decision. If she doesn't want to be in charge of XYZ anymore we shouldn't try and bully her into changing her mind'.

There was a lot of eye blinking and the topic was quickly changed.  It never happened at a council meeting again.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 24, 2013, 06:59:40 PM
A friend that's getting divorced has a very pa husband. He whined to her once "I bet you'd be happy if I went skydiving and my parachute didn't open!"  He was trying to make her feel guilty and beg him not to go cause she'd miss him too much or something.

She rolled her eyes and reminded him it wouldn't do her any good since he didn't have life insurance.   >:D

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PastryGoddess on February 24, 2013, 08:35:08 PM
A friend that's getting divorced has a very pa husband. He whined to her once "I bet you'd be happy if I went skydiving and my parachute didn't open!"  He was trying to make her feel guilty and beg him not to go cause she'd miss him too much or something.

She rolled her eyes and reminded him it wouldn't do her any good since he didn't have life insurance.   >:D



*slow clap* 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: wonderfullyanonymous on February 24, 2013, 09:12:50 PM
One summer when I was in high school, I had been out of the house for at least a week. It was probably fair and band camp week, which meant I was getting all my meals outside of the house.

After everything was said and done, my mom told me to clean the kitchen. I asked why I had to do this, as there was not a single dirty dish in the house from me. I was given some dumb reason as to why my sister or brother couldn't do it. This was par for the course in my house.

I started slamming dishes into the dishwasher. She told me to stop, but I kept doing it. She told me if I slammed one more dish into the dishwasher, I would be grounded to my room, which is where I wanted to be in the first place.  So I took, and slammed one more plate into the dishwasher. Off to my room I went.

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on February 24, 2013, 10:35:35 PM
Um ... I'm kind of on your mom's side here.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: mbbored on February 25, 2013, 12:06:15 AM
I'm in a club of about 10 people. The de facto leader clearly has her favorites and can be very PA about it. By this point everyone, including the "favorites," keep going despite the leader, not because of her. Last year we had two separate members get married (not to each other), Emily and Jane. Emily is one of Leader's favorites and Jane is clearly not. Leader turned one meeting into an engagement party for Emily, but left out Jane. Both women invited us to their bridal showers. Leader showed up to Emily's and not Jane's. Leader never RSVP'd to Jane's wedding and opted to go camping by herself that weekend but made a big deal about showing up to Emily's, talking about it for months beforehand and afterwards. For the record, Emily did not seek the attention and kept trying to redirect it away from her and towards Jane.

Now both Emily and Jane are expecting babies. During this week's meeting, Leader very dramatically announced that she was throwing a baby shower for Emily and told us the date. Everybody looked a little worried until Emily said "You're so sweet to offer, but that day is Jane's baby shower."

When Leader asked why she was the only one who didn't know about the shower, Jane said, "Well, you showed no interested in my engagement, bridal shower or wedding and didn't even react when I announced to the group I was pregnant, so I didn't want to Emily to waste her time making you an invitation."

And with that, we all walked out of the meeting.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PeterM on February 25, 2013, 12:29:40 AM
Um ... I'm kind of on your mom's side here.

Even without the backstory I presume was present, I'm not on Mom's side. If she's dumb enough to "punish" a kid by making them stop a hated chore and start doing something they want to do, she's on her own.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: starry diadem on February 25, 2013, 01:09:03 AM
I'm in a club of about 10 people. The de facto leader clearly has her favorites and can be very PA about it. By this point everyone, including the "favorites," keep going despite the leader, not because of her. Last year we had two separate members get married (not to each other), Emily and Jane. Emily is one of Leader's favorites and Jane is clearly not. Leader turned one meeting into an engagement party for Emily, but left out Jane. Both women invited us to their bridal showers. Leader showed up to Emily's and not Jane's. Leader never RSVP'd to Jane's wedding and opted to go camping by herself that weekend but made a big deal about showing up to Emily's, talking about it for months beforehand and afterwards. For the record, Emily did not seek the attention and kept trying to redirect it away from her and towards Jane.

Now both Emily and Jane are expecting babies. During this week's meeting, Leader very dramatically announced that she was throwing a baby shower for Emily and told us the date. Everybody looked a little worried until Emily said "You're so sweet to offer, but that day is Jane's baby shower."

When Leader asked why she was the only one who didn't know about the shower, Jane said, "Well, you showed no interested in my engagement, bridal shower or wedding and didn't even react when I announced to the group I was pregnant, so I didn't want to Emily to waste her time making you an invitation."

And with that, we all walked out of the meeting.

Go Jane!  Any follow up?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AngelicGamer on February 25, 2013, 03:13:20 AM
Um ... I'm kind of on your mom's side here.

Even without the backstory I presume was present, I'm not on Mom's side. If she's dumb enough to "punish" a kid by making them stop a hated chore and start doing something they want to do, she's on her own.

The following has speculation due to what I know of HS band camp, due to friends being in band camp and dating a member of the drum section.

I can see how it fits and I'm on wonderfullyanonymous' side.  Child!wonderfullyanonymous was being PA and therefore given what she wanted because she was being PA.  However, band camp is not some low level activity where they're sitting inside practicing on music.  It's full out, all day practice outside in summer (or winter weather but that was due to punishment [majority of the band participated with the football team in a prank or something and the kids did a cone of silence*] and the parents were on board with it [Chicago winter]) and they are three things when it is done - tired, hungry, and tired again.  To ask a band kid to do chores during this type of week was a bad idea, especially since the mom probably was driving wonderfullyanonymous to the start of the very early days.

*I don't remember specifics because it was over 10 years ago.  Nobody got expelled or anything of the sort because it's football ( >:( ::) ) and our band walked on water due to being able to out-win the football team.  I do remember my then BF complaining to me about having to march in the snow and make like they were playing their instruments.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MrTango on February 25, 2013, 07:13:05 AM
Um ... I'm kind of on your mom's side here.

Me too.  If it were my kid, they'd be made to remove everything from the dishwasher and re-load it without slamming dishes.  If they were overly rough with any dishes on the second try, the punishment would be repeated.

Also, they would lose all privileges to electronics, driving, and basically anything except school and church for a couple weeks.

Edited for an even better punishment.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Jones on February 25, 2013, 07:41:03 AM
If my kid tried to rationally argue with me first (aka "I didn't even live here this week, I spent 80 hours on schoolwork") and I tried to force her to clean up after her sibs, I'd have to take her dish slamming with some expectation. Especially if I had threatened to give her what she wanted if she did it again.

Now, if the chore were to wash the laundry, and a portion of the laundry were hers, I'd have to be on the mom's side.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: weeblewobble on February 25, 2013, 07:55:20 AM
Um ... I'm kind of on your mom's side here.

Even without the backstory I presume was present, I'm not on Mom's side. If she's dumb enough to "punish" a kid by making them stop a hated chore and start doing something they want to do, she's on her own.

While I don't agree with slamming the dishes around, I can understand why wonderfullyanonymous felt that way.  As the oldest sister in a family with a much coddled baby brother, I was frequently told to clean up brother's messes because he "couldn't'" do it himself.  Or would possible make a worse mess in the process of "trying" to clean up after himself.  (He was inept at cleaning. Inept like a fox.) 

I can remember many many occasions when my younger sister and I spent a good chunk of time meticulously cleaning our room, only to be told we weren't done yet. Brother "couldn't clean up his room" because it was too messy.  He claimed that it wasn't fair that we had help (each other) while he was all alone.  Pointing out that he'd made the mess alone just made my mom angry that we were talking back.  So we would clean his room while he laid on his bed and "directed" us by telling us what to keep and throw away.  If we complained about him lying around and not helping, Mom would yell to "just get it done!"

My sister and I* cleaned up the kitchen after dinner every night from the time I was 10. Was brother ever required to help? No.  When I went away to college, and sister was left doing the dishes alone every night, was brother required to help?  NO.

My sister and I did the laundry and ironing.  Brother was never required to help. When I went away to college, was brother required to help while sister was washing clothes HE wore to school every day?  NO.  Did brother wake her up one Saturday morning (her one day to sleep in) to call her a "stupid lazy lump" because he didn't have any clean underwear for some trip he was leaving for in ten minutes? YES. Did my sister get in trouble for jumping out of bed and punching brother in the face?  YES.

To this day, my parents don't understand why:

1) Brother is such a slob.

2) Why sister was OVERJOYED to leave for college, so she could scratch household duties from her to-do list, leaving just homework, extracurricular activities and her job on the campus.

3) We don't want to spend much time with brother, who hasn't really changed.

*My mom did plenty of work around the house and the cooking.  But she also worked full-time and was in the middle of a very difficult graduate program for most of my teen years.  And she wanted sister and I learn to contribute to the household.  I honestly think it just took too much effort to get brother to help, so she gave up and put the workload on us.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: ica171 on February 25, 2013, 08:07:11 AM
If my kid tried to rationally argue with me first (aka "I didn't even live here this week, I spent 80 hours on schoolwork") and I tried to force her to clean up after her sibs, I'd have to take her dish slamming with some expectation. Especially if I had threatened to give her what she wanted if she did it again.

Now, if the chore were to wash the laundry, and a portion of the laundry were hers, I'd have to be on the mom's side.

I have to agree. I'll be completely honest here and say that a big part of the reason that my son's usual daily chore is dishes is because I don't want to do three loads a day myself, so I make him do one. When I read that post, that seemed to be the same situation to me--Mom doesn't want to do the dishes, oh look, here's a child to do them for her.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Margo on February 25, 2013, 08:27:31 AM
A professional acquaintance of mine once tired to give a (not very P)A person what they wanted...
I was working as a very junior lawyer, and was at court with a client and a more senior lawyer.
Client was very difficult - he would ignore the advice he was given, argue with us about what the law was, and, on a regular basis, threaten to 'sack' us as his lawyers.

On this occasion, after having followed him out of the building once to persuade him to come back after he had waltzed off in a huff. He again threatened to sack us, at which point my colleague snapped.

"OK, Mr X. No problem.Here's a  notice of acting in person to show you'll be acting for yourself, and we'll ask for that to be handed into court for the Judge. All you need to do is sign here, and we can be off and let you get on with things."

There was a long pause, and he then asked us to continue to act. It cured him of threatening to sack us, at least for a while. Unfortunately it didn't stop him complaining at my inability to change the entire English Legal system to suit his convenience, and I never was able to persuade him to instruct someone else.

It does amuse me how many terrible clients seem to believe that the Worst Possible Threat they can make is to say they'll go elsewhere. I think every client I have ever had who has threatened that has been one where my (honest) response would be "What an excellent idea. Would you like me to call [new lawyer] to make an appointment for you?" (I once managed to kill two birds with one stone by referring a very difficult and unpleasant client on to a very difficult and unpleanant lawyer in Next Town)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 25, 2013, 08:42:21 AM
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: bloo on February 25, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

This is exactly the way I feel. I'm a WAHM (work-at-home-mom) and it really aggravates me to hear that too!

Since Mom & Pop are funding bandcamp or whatever, everyone should pitch in and help. When my kids have a special activity that  takes them away from their regularly scheduled chores, DH & I roll up our sleeves and do their jobs because...well, they still have to get done. So I will not tolerate "I didn't make that mess!"

I totally understand a kid feeling aggravated at having to clean up someone else's mess when their tired from a long day, too, but it's good training for adulthood when you find yourself cleaning up after other people either at home, work, the park or whatever.

Note to Weeble: I totally understand your sister's Low Ted Tolerance! That was beyond-the-pale not fair to you and sis.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MommyPenguin on February 25, 2013, 10:07:12 AM
My technique for a kid whining about a chore they're asked to do (or taking forever to do it, etc.), is that they get another chore to do after they finish that one.  So they have to finish their current chore and then do another.  Originally this was just for whining, but my oldest is now assigned to fold a basket of kid laundry sometimes.  She'll take about ten minutes to fold a single item if she isn't nudged along.  So I set a timer for 20 minutes.  If she finishes in 20 minutes, she's done.  If she doesn't, she still needs to finish that load, and then she has another load to do after that.  It works *great*.  Chore gets done fast, and then she can get on with other things.  If she dawdles, oh well, at least more laundry gets folded.  (She isn't able to keep up with kid laundry on her own, so I do some of the loads, so there's always a second load available).  I think it's a lot more effective than being sent to one's room. 

However, my youngest is only 2.5 and a little unclear on cleaning up after herself.  If she does something like dump out a box of crayons and then not clean it up, she'll go in a timeout, and I'll bring her the box of crayons and scoop the crayons up and put them on the floor next to her, and she's in a timeout until she gets it done.  Yes, moving the crayons and the box to the timeout corner is a little silly, as I could just put them in the box, but I'm trying to teach her to clean up after herself, so that she doesn't end up being the little brother in weeblewobble's story who doesn't know how to clean up after himself because his two big sisters do it for him.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 25, 2013, 10:21:27 AM
That is a great idea, and I plan to utilize that one, as my boys seem to have the same mentality that if they either a) do the chore quickly and poorly or b) slowly and poorly, they won't be asked to do it again.  My grandmother used to say "Lazy people have double work" and that's a fine way to make that point! :)  Whenever our boys try to rush through and do things halfway, they are sent back to do it again as many times as it takes to get the job done properly.

I like the idea with your toddler too so that she also gets the idea that well done chores done in a reasonable amount of time have their own rewards. :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: snowflake on February 25, 2013, 11:06:03 AM
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

Part of parceling out chores is that everyone picks up everyone else's mess.  I think it's a great thing that you are teaching your kids that.

I once lived in a shared house.  The rule was "Pick up your own mess."  I think it was a fabulous fail because my roommates were always thinking that they didn't put the soap scum on the bathtub or the grime on the stove.  So I regularly got, "This mess can't be mine because I clean up after myself!"

That house was a study in PA. "Well if you LIKE living like this it's YOUR choice." or "I won't tell you what to do, because I guess you like being a slob."  The worst was, "Did your mother not teach you..."  Which was awful because my mother didn't actually teach me.  Um, why yes, according to CPS I was living in low-level negligence on and off in my childhood.  But you know?  Talking about someone's family of origin circumstances as an insult is pretty low because it's not like they can help it!

Now I won't pretend I was Ms. Neat.  But I did some deep cleaning and never left anything out for more than a few hours.  The roommates would throw a fit if I dropped my backpack on the couch while I made myself a sandwich.  But while they "picked up" they never did a bit of deep cleaning.

I finally stopped cleaning the bathroom, sweeping off the porch, cleaning the oven and doing other things that I had been used to doing at home.  I just picked up my stuff.  That's it.  The shower got really, really, really, really gross.  I just smiled when they got squicked out.

Remember that low-level negligence?  I can tolerate really, really gross if I try.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Roodabega on February 25, 2013, 11:22:26 AM
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: rose red on February 25, 2013, 11:35:00 AM
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

This is what I'm thinking with her "par for the course" comment. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: alkira6 on February 25, 2013, 12:02:59 PM
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

This is what I'm thinking with her "par for the course" comment.

Yeah, my example is coming home from a trip to Wshington DC, getting picked up at the airport and being told that I need to do laundry and change the sheets on all the beds.  I've been gone 10 days mom, can I at least put my bags down first?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 25, 2013, 12:08:48 PM
Wow that is extreme.  Usually when we're just getting home from somewhere, like visiting family or something, DH and I do expect the children to help carry stuff in but once that's done they're allowed to relax. 

I wouldn't expect them to jump on chores if they'd been away for a week or so.  Just carry their suitcase in.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: alkira6 on February 25, 2013, 12:45:29 PM
Wow that is extreme.  Usually when we're just getting home from somewhere, like visiting family or something, DH and I do expect the children to help carry stuff in but once that's done they're allowed to relax. 

I wouldn't expect them to jump on chores if they'd been away for a week or so.  Just carry their suitcase in.

That is my one extreme example, but I was not surprised by it.  My older sister was excused from a lot because she had band and tutoring and my younger sister was excused because of who knows why.  Somehow my activities and job were never an excuse.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: weeblewobble on February 25, 2013, 12:59:11 PM


Note to Weeble: I totally understand your sister's Low Ted Tolerance! That was beyond-the-pale not fair to you and sis.

Yeah, even though I find myself in the peacekeeper role more often than not, I try not to make my sister feel like I judge her for her resentments toward Ted.  She has more reason to resent him than I do.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PeterM on February 25, 2013, 01:21:04 PM
It does amuse me how many terrible clients seem to believe that the Worst Possible Threat they can make is to say they'll go elsewhere.

I've told this story here before but I don't think in this thread.

I work in a public library. Our fines are 25 cents a day per item, but you're allowed to ignore them and keep checking out until they exceed $25, at which point you're blocked. We had a patron who was difficult in a variety of small ways, not really worse than many other patrons. She had more than $25 in fines, so we wouldn't check out to her until she paid them down. It escalated until our supervisor came out and brought her into her office to discuss matters. At which point the patron informs supervisor that if the fines aren't waived, "I'll take my business elsewhere."

To which supervisor replied, "Okay."

Seriously, lady, you hold no cards. The only way we receive money from you is via fines and taxes. You're going to pay the taxes no matter what, which made our choices

1) Waive your fines and lose that money, and still have to deal with you.
2) Not waive your fines so you can't use the library and we don't have to deal with you.
3) Not waive your fines and you go to another branch and bug them.

Why in the world would we go with option 1? The patron was pretty shocked by supervisor's reply, but she did pay her fines.

I should point out that we're pretty generous when it comes to waiving fines for anything resembling a valid reason. But "I just shouldn't have to pay them" gets you nowhere.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: bloo on February 25, 2013, 02:16:02 PM
It does amuse me how many terrible clients seem to believe that the Worst Possible Threat they can make is to say they'll go elsewhere.

I've told this story here before but I don't think in this thread.

I work in a public library. Our fines are 25 cents a day per item, but you're allowed to ignore them and keep checking out until they exceed $25, at which point you're blocked. We had a patron who was difficult in a variety of small ways, not really worse than many other patrons. She had more than $25 in fines, so we wouldn't check out to her until she paid them down. It escalated until our supervisor came out and brought her into her office to discuss matters. At which point the patron informs supervisor that if the fines aren't waived, "I'll take my business elsewhere."

To which supervisor replied, "Okay."

Seriously, lady, you hold no cards. The only way we receive money from you is via fines and taxes. You're going to pay the taxes no matter what, which made our choices

1) Waive your fines and lose that money, and still have to deal with you.
2) Not waive your fines so you can't use the library and we don't have to deal with you.
3) Not waive your fines and you go to another branch and bug them.

Why in the world would we go with option 1? The patron was pretty shocked by supervisor's reply, but she did pay her fines.

I should point out that we're pretty generous when it comes to waiving fines for anything resembling a valid reason. But "I just shouldn't have to pay them" gets you nowhere.

OT but I've a friend whose dream it would be to be a librarian. I, too, thought that would be a dream job, until I've read you, Yarnspinner's and a few others stories of the less-than-sane-or-sensible library patrons! My friend is an 911 dispatcher and is tired of dealing with people at their worst (understandably). This forum has enlightened me that librarians don't always avoid crazy! ;D

Seriously, though, I'm sure the benefits of your career outweigh the cons. Thanks for posting your experiences (you and all librarians - I have a whole new appreciation for you).
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 25, 2013, 02:19:55 PM
I didn't realize until reading these stories that what I had done was stop a PA person in her tracks.

In my department, there are four stations.  There is one employee in charge of each section for five days of the week.  On their days off, the floaters fill in at those stations.  I am a floater (until March 1st!) as is the other employee in question.  On the particular day in question, I was assigned to a station and she was assigned to float.  That means that if, say, station 1 needs paper but it is stored in station 2, she goes to station 2 to get it.  Her entire job that day was to run errands.

Coworker is a busybody, constantly telling other people of the same rank what to do.  She has no authority over us but likes to act like she does.  We are allowed to use our discretion, and if she doesn't agree with it, she'll come tell us and undermine us in front of the inmates (big no-no).  For example, there is an area in which we're supposed to only allow 5 inmates.  When it is really cold outside, some of us will allow 6 inmates in there instead.  Coworker saw that another coworker had 6 in there and she opened the door, didn't even look at the other coworker, and said, "There are only 5 allowed in here, one of you needs to leave".  The problem is, we've been told we're allowed to break the rule at our discretion, aka when it's cold out.  She just doesn't like it so she pulls stuff like that.  (I have a lot more stories).

I was in my station and decided to let my workers (the inmates) take a break for about 10 minutes.  During that time, coworker came to grab something out of my station for another.  When she saw that I had given the workers a break, she said, "You know you're not supposed to do that, right?"  After having had enough of her trying to control every little thing everyone else did, I didn't even look at her.  I answered her question, that was it, no more, no less.  "Yes, I know," and kept doing exactly what I was doing when she walked in there.

She just stood there expectantly waiting for me to keep going or to challenge her.  Eventually she gave up, sighed, and left.  What?  I answered her question, didn't I?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: CrochetFanatic on February 25, 2013, 02:32:46 PM
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

I'm sort of in the opposite camp here, but then again I don't have kids.  For the bolded, which is true, if everyone took care of their own messes, there wouldn't be much of a mess.  You made some valid points, though.  I might have to try to rearrange my way of thinking here.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kate on February 25, 2013, 03:01:35 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kate on February 25, 2013, 03:09:03 PM
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 25, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house  >:D

He was...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 25, 2013, 03:13:07 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kate on February 25, 2013, 03:15:28 PM
OOps did not see the part about him wearing socks...I suppose if socks are sweaty, that would still leave footprints. As one who has dealt  over the years with teenage boys with smelly sweaty socks I still sympathize LOL
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kate on February 25, 2013, 03:24:20 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: gramma dishes on February 25, 2013, 03:35:34 PM


My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house >:D

Seems he WAS wearing socks!!   ;)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 25, 2013, 03:53:09 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Redneck Gravy on February 25, 2013, 04:18:28 PM
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

I tried to POD this hours ago...before my power went off. 

My brother and I frequently use resentment as our middle name...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kate on February 25, 2013, 04:34:37 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.
Suppose we came up with a similar but hypothetical situation..Sally asks boyfriend Joe to go with her to a dance. Joe hates dancing and says upfront he does not wish to go. Sally nicely says, that's not a problem, Other guy Ed likes dancing I'll go with him instead. Joe, scared he will lose her,not wanting her to go with other guy says, he will go...so who is the manipulator?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 25, 2013, 04:37:53 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.

Sure, that may be part of his motive, too, but I see the controlling aspect through passive means to be an aggressive way of getting what he wants: to walk his daughter down the aisle while people think he's just such a kind person because he did it against his will (or so they think).

Thanks for the discussion, btw, I like disagreeing and talking out our differences to get to the other person's point of view.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kate on February 25, 2013, 05:06:54 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.

Sure, that may be part of his motive, too, but I see the controlling aspect through passive means to be an aggressive way of getting what he wants: to walk his daughter down the aisle while people think he's just such a kind person because he did it against his will (or so they think).

Thanks for the discussion, btw, I like disagreeing and talking out our differences to get to the other person's point of view.
You are welcome :) ...I find these posts so interesting , thinking about what makes people "tick" so to speak, and sometimes when we cannot get inside others heads and emotions we make assumptions about their motives which may or may not be true.
I laughed at the posts about elderley relatives that moan about how this is their last birthday, won't be here next year etc, etc, .....my grandpa started doing that when he was in his sixties and he lived into his nineties! LOL...don't think he was being PA though, just attention seeking, wanting affirmation of his worth to his family IMO
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Tea Drinker on February 25, 2013, 05:12:44 PM
I was enjoying reading through these accounts of  behavior exhibiting narcissism, manipulation, hostile aggression, etc, but I see very few examples of what I believed actual PA behavior, or maybe I am confused about what PA behavior actually is? As an example, a poster wrote about how her father openly did not want to walk her down the aisle when she got married, but eventually agreed. It seemed to me he was expressing open hostility and disagreement to the request.

 Now I would have said that was not passive aggressive behavior..... rather if he had agreed to walk her down the aisle and then was "accidentally" late to the ceremony, or "forgot" to pick up his tux too late to showup etc, etc,  that would be passive aggressive behavior.

He was PA before the event whereas your examples are PA after the event.
But that is where I am confused, as by definition, a passive aggressive person does not openly express aggression , thus the  "passive"part...OP said her father was open hostile to, and refusing the idea of walking her down the aisle, that' s just being a difficult pain in the posterior, IMO
As one who has occaisionally dealt with passive aggressive behavior on the part of my spouse, I would RATHER have someone tell me where they stand, say no, be defiant, etc right up front, rather than pretending to agree, or remaining silent while secretly disagreeing and undermining or sabatoging.

He did want to walk her down the aisle, he just wanted her to think that it was a big imposition to him and by him giving in to do so (with her begging) he was such a nice person and it was such a kind thing for him to do for her, how nice of him, isn't he great?!  It's a passive and aggressive way to try to control people on top of trying to make them think you're kind for doing it.
Hmm..certainly controlling and manipulative, but still not sure it fits into "passive aggressive" by the definitions I find online
it seemed more to me, albeit we don't know this person , that he really did not want to do the task but was not willing for anyone else to usurp his position.
Suppose we came up with a similar but hypothetical situation..Sally asks boyfriend Joe to go with her to a dance. Joe hates dancing and says upfront he does not wish to go. Sally nicely says, that's not a problem, Other guy Ed likes dancing I'll go with him instead. Joe, scared he will lose her,not wanting her to go with other guy says, he will go...so who is the manipulator?

Without more details (which of course don't exist in a hypothetical), I don't know whether anyone is a manipulator.

If I were in Sally's shoes, and said "that's okay, I'll do that with someone else" I wouldn't be trying to manipulate my partner into doing it, and I wouldn't be thinking "if Joe doesn't go to the dance with me, I'll break up with him." If dancing was that important to me, I would want either a partner who actively enjoyed it, or one who was comfortable with me dancing with other people, knowing I'd come home to him or her at the end of the night. Not someone who would reluctantly come to a dance with me, sit out as many dances as possible, and look grumpy when he did stand up with me.

That said, I know there are people whose motivation would be as you imply, to pressure their "Joe" to go to the dance even though he didn't want to. But I still wouldn't call either party PA. Sally isn't PA unless she has no intention of going to the dance with Ed even if Joe still says no. (Taking an evening to figure out whether you'd rather go out with Ed than Joe, given that Joe doesn't share one of your interests that Ed does, isn't passive-aggressive.) And Joe isn't being PA unless he refused Sally's invitation so he could wait until she said "OK, I guess I'll stay home" to propose something he knew she wouldn't consider a first choice. (The non-PA way of doing that would be "No thanks, you know I don't like dancing. How about we go see a movie that night instead?" or even "no thanks, you know I don't like dancing, and besides there are some chores I need to take care of."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 25, 2013, 05:19:40 PM
See, Joe genuinely doesn't want to dance, whereas in the actual post, the way the father backtracks shows that he indeed wants to but was trying to get the daughter to say how much she wants it so that when he gave in it made it look like he was doing her a favor.  That's the difference between a genuine person and a PA person.  When I get home, I'll write another example; right now, that would take too long on my phone.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 25, 2013, 07:17:58 PM
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

I'm sort of in the opposite camp here, but then again I don't have kids.  For the bolded, which is true, if everyone took care of their own messes, there wouldn't be much of a mess.  You made some valid points, though.  I might have to try to rearrange my way of thinking here.

I don't really mind cleaning up as well being a SAHM and being home more during the day than anyone else, I do have more time to get things done, but I don't appreciate when the others make my job even more difficult by not doing a reasonable amount of cleaning up after themselves.  I mean I don't mind vacuuming and doing laundry, mopping and such.  But when they leave things strewn on the floor that I need to vacuum, stuff gets picked up (sometimes hidden if I'm really irritated) I get a bit of an attitude when I hear "But it's not mine, why do I have to clean it up?" or "I didn't dirty that dish, why do I have to pick it up?"

They are told "Because you are a part of the family and it all goes towards the upkeep of a home so you may as well learn now and I look at it as doing your future mate a favor by teaching you to not be a slob."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: RegionMom on February 25, 2013, 08:54:11 PM
one poster mentioned that a sibling got out of house chores because they were SO busy with band. 

yet the story that began this off-chat was about a poster who had been gone all week with band, had siblings sitting at home, and yet was asked to do the dishes when they had had every meal outside of the house.  All she wanted was to go the bedroom and not have to do anything except decompress from the rigors of band camp.  Been there, done that.  It is hard work.

But the mom saw a child nearby to do a chore that needed doing.  I guess the other two siblings were better at hiding?  Or, with the"par for the course" comment, they knew they did not have to do the work, since band sibling would be home soon.

Yeah, it sucks.  Sometimes there is favoritism, or the opposite of that.

Sometimes being the nice child, the good student, the trustworthy one, gets you more dirty work to do and more responsibilities that should not be yours to begin with.  (see the brother 10minute trip face punch post)

And, because I know someone out there is thinking it, can we please get back to the main topic of this thread?

:)

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: tiff019 on February 25, 2013, 10:26:56 PM
The couch story reminds me of one time when my dad, who has very smelly feet, decided to lie on the couch with his slippers off.  I, being a very tactless teenager, said "Geez, Dad, your feet stink."  He ignored me (probably because I was always being rude like that.  I was a bit obnoxious at that age).  Then my mum said "Uh, Roger, your feet really do stink.  PLEASE put your slippers back on." 

Whereupon he stomped out of the livingroom in a huff for daring to imply that his toesies didn't smell like gardenias.  Yep, giving us breathable air that didn't make us want to pass out - that'll teach us!

The reverse of this story (which I've told here before I'm sure) was when my sister's boyfriend came over and took his shoes off at the door. He sat on the couch, and suddenly my sister announced that she "smelled something. Do you smell that? What is that?" Well, it was her BF's feet apparently (I was next to him and couldn't smell anything). So she grabbed a bottle of Lysol and Lysol'd his feet. I don't know what she expected him to do--he already took his shoes off when he came in, which was one of her rules. Was he supposed to cut his feet off before entering as well?  ???

My (adult) dad once got yelled at by his mother for wearing his shoes in the house, so he obliged and took them off by the door, and walked into the tiled entryway... where he then got yelled at for leaving sweaty footprints on the tiles (from his socked feet). He asked his mom if she wanted him to just float around the house. If I remember the story correctly, she just huffed and flounced off. She was a good woman, just particular about very odd things at times.
I quess I'm with her, as I also HATE smudgy sweaty footprints on the hard wood floors in the summer, and there is a simple solution...wear socks in the house  >:D

But he did have socks on! But of course they were slightly sweaty from having JUST taken his shoes off (I imagine bare feet would have left a print or too as well if he had also taken his socks off)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GratefulMaria on February 26, 2013, 06:56:21 AM
This might be more straight-up sarcasm than PA, but my mother is offended any time I go with my own preference about a conversation or decision; not following her lead or guidance is a threat and affront.  Once when she asked me a detail about something and I responded with a pleasant, "I'm not going to go into that," she came back with a wounded, sarcastic, "Oh, it's a big secret, then!"  I smiled and chirped "Yep!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Julian on February 26, 2013, 02:08:04 PM
Back in my nursing days I used to work with a particular anaesthesiologist who was, at best, an interesting personality.  He would intentionally go out of his way, in small ways and large, to get somebody to get upset with him, presumably so he could have a fight with them.

I watched him one day, with a new nurse.  She was supernumary because she was learning, but she was helping out with the general OR work.  He kept glaring at her (and he has a particularly penetrating glare!) over his mask, constantly, regardless of what she did.  I could see her dander rising fast, and cautioned her 'he's just after a bite - don't give it!'  She tried to ignore him, but he kept up, she got progressively more upset, until she eventually did bite, sort of a 'what's your problem?' comment.  Well, it was on... 

One day years earlier he was gassing in my OR.  I was setting up for a minor case (BG - we had two set up trollies and a bowl stand to open sterile bundles on, for a minor case I didn't need the smaller trolley) so he he appropriated the small trolley for his (woo!  new at the time, yippee!!!) laptop.  I made no comment, despite him repeatedly looking over at me as if expecting a bite.  No, mate, I know better.  Next case was a bigger case, but I could make do with one trolley, so I again made no comment, left him with the smaller trolley and kept on going.  So he made a big production about coming over (after most of the set up was done, of course) and saying 'Sorry, Sister [for that was how we were addressed back then], do you need your trolley back?'  I replied cheerully, no thanks, I can manage.  Well, he was so disappointed that I didn't a) ask for it back before we started, so he could argue with me, or b) demand it back right then and there or c) tell him off for borrowing it in the first place.  Nope, I'm not going to play your games, sunshine, so you keep the trolley.  It was very amusing watching him deflate in frustration!   >:D

Another day, on a weekend, he came in to do a few cases as an extra.  We were very busy, so the cases were delayed a little, and at the time I was in the stock room putting instruments away.  He came in to rant at me (colour me surprised, I wouldn't have thought he knew where the nurses' stock room even was!) about the late start.
A: 'It's so frustrating to have to start late when I give up my Saturday like this!' 
J: 'Yup, I know...' 
A:'This happens every time!!' 
J: 'Yup, I know...' 
A: 'It's particularly hard because I'm trying to lose weight...'
J: 'I know, and you come in here, without having had lunch, then you get too hungry, then you eat the wrong thing, then you eat too much, and the weight never comes off...'
A: 'Yeah...'  wanders off, deflated.
Seriously it was like watching somebody letting the air out of a balloon!

I could tell many, many tales of this guy - I worked with him for around 20 years, and we ended up quite friendly, but oh lordy he was a master manipulator. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MyFamily on February 26, 2013, 03:59:34 PM
I'm giving a PA coworker what she wants.  She doesn't want to talk with me right now (I'm not willing to take on an extra task for her that our receptionist who is currently out on medical leave normally does, but that is because I've taken on 85% of the receptionist's tasks, and I just don't have time for one more).  Why is this a bit of karma? Because we just got a new printer/copier/scanner/fax machine and the only staff member who really went through the training was me (ie I didn't focus just on what I need, but on what everyone needs), and she didn't go through any of the training (her choice). So now, she's having troubles making some simple copies because while the new machines aren't that different, there is a difference, and she's going to have to learn how to do it, and there is no one else who can show her what she needs to know because I'm the only one who knows.  (and for the record, I'm being professional and have emailed her twice reminding her that I need to show her things on the machines - she just hasn't responded at all).
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Library Dragon on March 03, 2013, 03:38:59 PM
It does amuse me how many terrible clients seem to believe that the Worst Possible Threat they can make is to say they'll go elsewhere.

I've told this story here before but I don't think in this thread.

I work in a public library. Our fines are 25 cents a day per item, but you're allowed to ignore them and keep checking out until they exceed $25, at which point you're blocked. We had a patron who was difficult in a variety of small ways, not really worse than many other patrons. She had more than $25 in fines, so we wouldn't check out to her until she paid them down. It escalated until our supervisor came out and brought her into her office to discuss matters. At which point the patron informs supervisor that if the fines aren't waived, "I'll take my business elsewhere."

To which supervisor replied, "Okay."

Seriously, lady, you hold no cards. The only way we receive money from you is via fines and taxes. You're going to pay the taxes no matter what, which made our choices

1) Waive your fines and lose that money, and still have to deal with you.
2) Not waive your fines so you can't use the library and we don't have to deal with you.
3) Not waive your fines and you go to another branch and bug them.

Why in the world would we go with option 1? The patron was pretty shocked by supervisor's reply, but she did pay her fines.

I should point out that we're pretty generous when it comes to waiving fines for anything resembling a valid reason. But "I just shouldn't have to pay them" gets you nowhere.

This makes me guffaw every time it happens.  I just had an cal from a patron who had over $600 in library materials.  We had:
1. Sent her an email reminder 3 days before they were due;
2. Sent an overdue notice;
3. Sent a bill;
4. Months later she was turned over to the collection agency and received a letter.
5. Sent a certified letter reminding her that we have the right to turn her over to the magistrate.

She called screaming that we were charging too much for the items. I explained that we really didn't want her money, just for her to bring back the 25 items (DVDs & books) in good condition.  It turned out she sold them in a yard sale. She announced that once she paid for the materials her "business with the library is done."

Yes, it hurts my feelings that someone who steals from the public won't be using our facilities again.

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Katana_Geldar on March 03, 2013, 04:36:43 PM
The students at my library haven't usually been to a library before, so they have no idea that they have to bring the books back when they say and it has to be constantly drummed int them. It's nothing to them to borrow a text book for, say, the rest of the semester, and then return it as pay the fine because its cheaper than buying the book.

And we did find a book tha had been missing six months hidden in one of the toilets. Students had been using it to cheat in exams.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: crella on March 03, 2013, 09:50:06 PM
Quote
It turned out she sold them in a yard sale.



 :o :o :o
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: rose red on March 04, 2013, 09:17:46 AM
Six. Hundred. Dollars.  :o  That sure as heck can buy more than 25 books and DVDs.  When I was young and lazy, the most I racked up $20 and was so mad at myself.  I thought nobody was stupid as me for letting it go that long, especially when fines were only 10 cents a day.  And then I overhear librarians with other patrons, and read stories like this and realize, no, I'm not the worse they've ever encountered (probably not even a blip on their radar).
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on March 04, 2013, 10:18:07 AM
Can you tell my mum that?  I still don't think she's forgiven me for being "so stupid" about accumulating a $6 fine.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: bopper on March 04, 2013, 04:10:51 PM
Re: the band member and the dishes

I am a mom but I have been that band member too.  One has to help as a household member to maintain the house. But generally usually you have gotten the  benefit of the meal you eat that you are asked to clean up after.   Or you have used the bathroom that you are asked to clean. Or stepped on the floors you are asked to vacuum. 

My dilemma is when I make dinner, but the person designated as the dish doer that night decided they didn't want the main meal and made something else for themselves.  I still want them to clean up as I made dinner and it is their turn.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Katana_Geldar on March 04, 2013, 04:38:20 PM
Six. Hundred. Dollars.  :o  That sure as heck can buy more than 25 books and DVDs.  When I was young and lazy, the most I racked up $20 and was so mad at myself.  I thought nobody was stupid as me for letting it go that long, especially when fines were only 10 cents a day.  And then I overhear librarians with other patrons, and read stories like this and realize, no, I'm not the worse they've ever encountered (probably not even a blip on their radar).

You try having overdubs at a university library.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Garden Goblin on March 04, 2013, 10:20:07 PM
I broke my mother's friend.

My niece is starting to get old enough where it is necessary to explain to her the maintenance aspects of the birds and the bees.  She and I were having a conversation about bras, and he was close enough to overhear and started eavesdropping.  He got uncomfortable, and starting making PA remarks about inappropriate conversations and if he wanted to hear this kind of talk he'd go to the gentleman's club where at least he could see some nice the girls.

So I pulled up my phone brought up a picture and said here are some the girls, now hush.  He turned bright red and started stammering.  My mother freaked out.  Then I suggested that one or the other of them actually look at the picture.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kuelktte1b1qzwfr0o1_250.jpg)

He realized he was being silly and shut up after that.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 04, 2013, 10:39:11 PM
I broke my mother's friend.

My niece is starting to get old enough where it is necessary to explain to her the maintenance aspects of the birds and the bees.  She and I were having a conversation about bras, and he was close enough to overhear and started eavesdropping.  He got uncomfortable, and starting making PA remarks about inappropriate conversations and if he wanted to hear this kind of talk he'd go to the gentleman's club where at least he could see some nice the girls.

So I pulled up my phone brought up a picture and said here are some the girls, now hush.  He turned bright red and started stammering.  My mother freaked out.  Then I suggested that one or the other of them actually look at the picture.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kuelktte1b1qzwfr0o1_250.jpg)

He realized he was being silly and shut up after that.

I totally just added this picture to my phone
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on March 05, 2013, 06:42:04 AM
Ha ha ha!   That reminds me of a story Tina Fey told in her book "Bossypants".   Amy Poehler told an off-color anecdote, and one of the male cast members of SNL said "Oh, don't talk like that!   It's so unladylike, and I don't like to hear it!"  (For the record, he was eavesdropping, so he didn't HAVE to hear it.).  Amy glared at him and said "I'll talk however I want.  I don't give a f*** what you like."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on March 05, 2013, 09:43:41 AM
Ha ha ha!   That reminds me of a story Tina Fey told in her book "Bossypants".   Amy Poehler told an off-color anecdote, and one of the male cast members of SNL said "Oh, don't talk like that!   It's so unladylike, and I don't like to hear it!"  (For the record, he was eavesdropping, so he didn't HAVE to hear it.).  Amy glared at him and said "I'll talk however I want.  I don't give a f*** what you like."

::Applause::
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: violinp on March 07, 2013, 02:39:03 PM
Ha ha ha!   That reminds me of a story Tina Fey told in her book "Bossypants".   Amy Poehler told an off-color anecdote, and one of the male cast members of SNL said "Oh, don't talk like that!   It's so unladylike, and I don't like to hear it!"  (For the record, he was eavesdropping, so he didn't HAVE to hear it.).  Amy glared at him and said "I'll talk however I want.  I don't give a f*** what you like."

::Applause::

 ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: lorelai on January 14, 2014, 01:25:05 AM
My way of dealing with my PA mil is to respond with cluelessness when she starts in on me going to school instead of taking care of her son. It's more like one class, one night a week. But I was studying for the GRE's for awhile.

MIL: What did you do today?
Me: mostly studied.
MIL: You study all the time! Do you ever do anything else?
Me: I know, right? I'm so lucky. I get to take these classes to further my career and I love to study. It's so nice that I get to do it so often!
MIL: When do you have time to be with my son?
Me: DH really likes it too! Then he can do x or y. It's nice to be together and it's also nice to spend time apart, you know?
MIL: grumble grumble

I'm just waiting to hear if I got into grad school so the real PA comments can start! Ha!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MissRose on January 14, 2014, 07:31:28 AM
I'm mostly on Wonderfullyanonymous' side on this one.  It's all well and good if you want kids to participate in the daily household chores, but you better be sure it's equitable across all of them.  Having someone come home after being gone and having them clean up messes created by someone else doesn't prepare your child for anything but resentment.  Especially if, as it sounds, the siblings don't have the same expectation.

I tried to POD this hours ago...before my power went off. 

My brother and I frequently use resentment as our middle name...

I resented the fact as a kid then as a teen that my mother had me and my sister do a lot of chores growing up.  Especially when we knew our cousins of the same age rarely did any chores and to really get us mad was most of the neighbor kids didn't do chores either.   When my mother worked some outside of the home when I was a teenager, my younger sister would not want to do her work and often make me do some of her work for her.  My mother seldom believed me when I said anything about it and my sister back in the day would go ballistic if I tattled on her.   Looking back, the way me and my sister acted we hoped it would get us of doing work but we are better for knowing how to do housework as adults & our mother would NEVER back down then do the work herself.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: hjaye on January 14, 2014, 09:38:39 AM
Speaking of restaurants, I remember when my grandmother was alive - she'd always deliberately order the cheapest thing on the menu and then complain about it.   My parents (who were paying) would beg her to order what she wanted to eat as opposed to the cheapest thing, but noooo!

That reminds me of this joke:

Lady 1: The food at this restaurant is terrible
Lady 2: Yes the food is dry, over cooked and barley edible
Lady 3: yes I agree, and the portions are so small...................... ba da bump
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Twik on January 14, 2014, 10:01:19 AM
Ha ha ha!   That reminds me of a story Tina Fey told in her book "Bossypants".   Amy Poehler told an off-color anecdote, and one of the male cast members of SNL said "Oh, don't talk like that!   It's so unladylike, and I don't like to hear it!"  (For the record, he was eavesdropping, so he didn't HAVE to hear it.).  Amy glared at him and said "I'll talk however I want.  I don't give a f*** what you like."

::Applause::
Why? That's pretty clear retaliatory rudeness.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Phoebelion on January 14, 2014, 10:23:55 AM
Currently, DH is the Executor of his father's estate.  The other heir as well as numerous non-heirs have threatened to "fire" him because he is doing what his dad's will and the law say he must do.  Because he is not doing what they want him to do.

He asked who was taking over so he could send them the paperwork he had accumulated.

End of threats.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: darling on January 14, 2014, 11:39:02 AM
Ha ha ha!   That reminds me of a story Tina Fey told in her book "Bossypants".   Amy Poehler told an off-color anecdote, and one of the male cast members of SNL said "Oh, don't talk like that!   It's so unladylike, and I don't like to hear it!"  (For the record, he was eavesdropping, so he didn't HAVE to hear it.).  Amy glared at him and said "I'll talk however I want.  I don't give a f*** what you like."

::Applause::
Why? That's pretty clear retaliatory rudeness.

Between comedians, and especially in the situation Amy and Tina were  in at the time, when the guys were talking just like that in front of the "ladies", I'd say she stood her ground appropriately to the situation at hand. As someone who acts, generally offense is not taken at comebacks and retorts, but rather, a "you got me there!" and "how can we use this later???". They are in the entertainment business, not the etiquette business.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: z_squared82 on January 14, 2014, 03:59:07 PM
Posting for updates at the moment. Will add when I’ve read everything. And made a list.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!)
Post by: Sirius on January 14, 2014, 04:30:08 PM
Kind of like Sheila's story (which is what reminded me about him!) I used to have a boyfriend who would always pull the "I am not good enough for you, you can do better" routine all of the time... and I was of course supposed to fawn all over him and reassure him that oh no, I loved him and he was perfect.  Which I did.  For a while.  (Hey, I was in college and stupid.)

And then one day I just got fed up with the whole routine, and when he started in on his "I am not good enough..." lines, I said something like "You're right, you really aren't good enough and I probably can do a lot better" and dumped him on the spot.  It wasn't until after I dumped him that I realized just how creepy and controlling he was, and that I had really dodged a bullet.   

Had one of those, too.  Dodged a major bullet. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: poundcake on January 15, 2014, 06:36:11 AM
My mother is a pro at PA behavior, to the point that she would be gobsmacked if her family members pointed out that what she does is passive aggressive. My sib and I call it her way of "fighting with us." There are so many little occurrences, but we knew when Mom's sister, with whom she shared a home, finally died, she was going to go off the deep end with unhealthy behavior, because we weren't going to do what she wanted and expected us to do: pay off all her bills and buy the house for her, since she couldn't afford to live there alone w/out her sis.

There were months of tiny warnings as we all mourned the loss of a beloved family member and tried to help Mom come up with a variety of potential solutions to her money woes, but none of that was going to work for some reason or another. Both Sib and I already lived out of state, and I had to take a position out of the country. A few months later, when I was on an international flight back to the States for an important work conference, Mom texted both Sib and I with a veiled "goodbye, cruel world" message. In between connecting flights, we had exactly 20 minutes to handle things. We both knew what Mom wanted and expected: both of her kids to immediately fly to her city. Especially me, since I was now in the country and in an airport. That wasn't possible. So we decided to take her PA statement seriously, and called the cops to make a welfare check. Then ended up taking her in for care, and, because she was such a mess, actually kept her two days LONGER. We got all of her friends around her, despite the fact that she "didn't want to be a bother" to them, and made it clear that Mom was suicidal, neither of us could afford to fly 3000-6000 miles, and she needed an immediate as well as a long-distance support group. Within weeks, one friend helped her find an apartment, and five of them started having regular card games and BBQs, no longer taking it at face value when Mom insisted she was "fine." (Because you don't burden your friends, just your kids?)

It was amazing to me that these women who had known her for almost 50 years had no idea that their cheerful little bundle of sunshine had a severe problem with depression, and that "the kids" couldn't fix or take care of it like we had been for decades any more.

She's on stronger anti-depressants, and lost the family house, but, frankly, her behaviors have consequences. While now, she will still make a few PA digs about her time in "the nuthouse" and how it harmed her, she has never, ever tried that PA "I'll be gone soon and won't be a burden to you kids" b.s. again since she saw that, instead of playing by her expected script, we will take it seriously. And act. Immediately.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GratefulMaria on January 15, 2014, 08:12:32 AM
My mother is a pro at PA behavior, to the point that she would be gobsmacked if her family members pointed out that what she does is passive aggressive. My sib and I call it her way of "fighting with us." There are so many little occurrences, but we knew when Mom's sister, with whom she shared a home, finally died, she was going to go off the deep end with unhealthy behavior, because we weren't going to do what she wanted and expected us to do: pay off all her bills and buy the house for her, since she couldn't afford to live there alone w/out her sis.

There were months of tiny warnings as we all mourned the loss of a beloved family member and tried to help Mom come up with a variety of potential solutions to her money woes, but none of that was going to work for some reason or another. Both Sib and I already lived out of state, and I had to take a position out of the country. A few months later, when I was on an international flight back to the States for an important work conference, Mom texted both Sib and I with a veiled "goodbye, cruel world" message. In between connecting flights, we had exactly 20 minutes to handle things. We both knew what Mom wanted and expected: both of her kids to immediately fly to her city. Especially me, since I was now in the country and in an airport. That wasn't possible. So we decided to take her PA statement seriously, and called the cops to make a welfare check. Then ended up taking her in for care, and, because she was such a mess, actually kept her two days LONGER. We got all of her friends around her, despite the fact that she "didn't want to be a bother" to them, and made it clear that Mom was suicidal, neither of us could afford to fly 3000-6000 miles, and she needed an immediate as well as a long-distance support group. Within weeks, one friend helped her find an apartment, and five of them started having regular card games and BBQs, no longer taking it at face value when Mom insisted she was "fine." (Because you don't burden your friends, just your kids?)

It was amazing to me that these women who had known her for almost 50 years had no idea that their cheerful little bundle of sunshine had a severe problem with depression, and that "the kids" couldn't fix or take care of it like we had been for decades any more.

She's on stronger anti-depressants, and lost the family house, but, frankly, her behaviors have consequences. While now, she will still make a few PA digs about her time in "the nuthouse" and how it harmed her, she has never, ever tried that PA "I'll be gone soon and won't be a burden to you kids" b.s. again since she saw that, instead of playing by her expected script, we will take it seriously. And act. Immediately.

poundcake, my jaw is hanging open.  My mother's the same about "not wanting to be a bother" to others but sulking when I don't coddle her at the first hint of dissatisfaction, depression (mild, but about which she refuses to do anything but complain to me), or loneliness (for me and my attention).  I have to say she is more "PA lite" and has been responsive once I called her on it, so things did not get to a crisis point here.

Good for you and your sibling doing what's healthy for all of you!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 15, 2014, 09:26:27 AM
I spent two years with a guy who was the king of obstructionist PA behavior.  He would - sometimes reluctantly - agree to do something, then deliberately make it difficult to get it done.  His hope was that I would eventually tell him to forget it.  Before I caught on to what he was doing, I usually would.  However, once I started figuring it out, I stopped letting him off the hook.

The best example I have is when my BFF "Ashley" got married.  Ashley and I had drifted apart for a few years at this point, but had very recently reconnected.  (nothing bad happened, just normal ebbs and flows of life.)  She had invited both of us to her wedding.  Prior to this, I had spent a good chunk of my summer rearranging my weekend work schedule so I could go with PA Boyfriend to his friends' weddings.  I think there were three of them that summer.  So, when I told him we had been invited to Ashley's wedding, he heaved a huge sigh, but agreed to go.

The wedding was at 11 on a Saturday morning.  He generally got up at 9 during the week, so he was not going to have to get up any earlier than normal.  Still, I arrived at his house with coffee (made the very particular way he liked it) and his favorite type of muffin at 10:15 that morning.  He was lying in bed, fully clothed, but sound asleep.  When I walked into his room, he woke up, and started to very slowly get up and start moving.  He kept glancing over at me to see how I was reacting - I'm sure in hopes that I would tell him to forget it.  Instead, I told him that we needed to leave in 15 minutes and that his coffee and food were downstairs.

He did go and we got to the wedidng on time, but he made sure everyone - including the bride and groom - knew he did NOT want to be there.

Had he said no from the beginning when I asked him to go, I'm not going to lie, there would have been a fight.  He knew that.  In the past, though, when he dragged his feet and found all these things he HAD to do before we could leave, I would always cave and tell him he - or we - didn't have to go.  And I was done with that.

He realized I was going to take what he said at face value - if he said he was going to do something, I expected him to do it.  I realized that me asking him to do things and then holding him to it meant he was going to make sure everyone was miserable.

We broke up less than two months later.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: gramma dishes on January 15, 2014, 09:33:09 AM

...  We broke up less than two months later.

Is that a typo?  If it had been me, we'd have broken up about two minutes later!!   :)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on January 15, 2014, 10:19:38 AM
My dad has done PA behavior in attempts to get out of going to social events.  He hates parties, and every time my mum had a work party to go to (for Christmas, say), he'd try to pick a fight as they were getting ready.  Mum wouldn't have any of it, they'd go to the party - and he'd have a wonderful time.  Hoo boy.   ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 17, 2014, 06:38:23 AM
I spent two years with a guy who was the king of obstructionist PA behavior.  He would - sometimes reluctantly - agree to do something, then deliberately make it difficult to get it done.  His hope was that I would eventually tell him to forget it.  Before I caught on to what he was doing, I usually would.  However, once I started figuring it out, I stopped letting him off the hook.

The best example I have is when my BFF "Ashley" got married.  Ashley and I had drifted apart for a few years at this point, but had very recently reconnected.  (nothing bad happened, just normal ebbs and flows of life.)  She had invited both of us to her wedding.  Prior to this, I had spent a good chunk of my summer rearranging my weekend work schedule so I could go with PA Boyfriend to his friends' weddings.  I think there were three of them that summer.  So, when I told him we had been invited to Ashley's wedding, he heaved a huge sigh, but agreed to go.

The wedding was at 11 on a Saturday morning.  He generally got up at 9 during the week, so he was not going to have to get up any earlier than normal.  Still, I arrived at his house with coffee (made the very particular way he liked it) and his favorite type of muffin at 10:15 that morning.  He was lying in bed, fully clothed, but sound asleep.  When I walked into his room, he woke up, and started to very slowly get up and start moving.  He kept glancing over at me to see how I was reacting - I'm sure in hopes that I would tell him to forget it.  Instead, I told him that we needed to leave in 15 minutes and that his coffee and food were downstairs.

He did go and we got to the wedidng on time, but he made sure everyone - including the bride and groom - knew he did NOT want to be there.

Had he said no from the beginning when I asked him to go, I'm not going to lie, there would have been a fight.  He knew that.  In the past, though, when he dragged his feet and found all these things he HAD to do before we could leave, I would always cave and tell him he - or we - didn't have to go.  And I was done with that.

He realized I was going to take what he said at face value - if he said he was going to do something, I expected him to do it.  I realized that me asking him to do things and then holding him to it meant he was going to make sure everyone was miserable.

We broke up less than two months later.

This is my ex, surely; my friends now call him The Fun Sucker.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GregariousIntrovert on January 21, 2014, 03:50:55 PM
Ex husband was champion of PA behavior!  Here is just a snippet of the joys of daily life with him -

- At random times he would simply ask "why do you hate me?", or declare that I would be happy when he dead.

- He'd ask if I wanted to go somewhere, and I say "sure, let me change clothes/grab my purse/etc" only to come back to find that he was pulling out of the driveway.  Of course I fell for the cat and mouse game every time and chased him down.  "You weren't ready when I was so I figured that meant you didn't want to go"

-He regularly told me that the average woman was a size 6 and did I know that underweight woman had healthier babies?  Followed with "not that it matters because you don't love me enough to have my kids anyway." 

-I'd ask him to at least get his dishes to the counter for me to load into the dishwasher - "FINE! Never cook for me again!"  and also the classic I'LL TAKE ALL MY LAUNDRY TO THE DRY CLEANERS! because i asked if he could get his clothes into the hamper.  This happened at least several times a year.  Funny how I still had to keep cooking and cleaning!

-However, sometimes I'd make something and he'd look at it and go "oh, that doesn't look good, I'm going out" and he would. Or he'd ask for something specific and then call from work to say he decided to go the baseball game with a coworker - after it was already in the oven. Or, I didn't happen to have breakfast ready by the time he came down from getting ready for work which of course could only mean one thing - I GUESS YOU DON'T LOVE ME ANYMORE!  That was also the classic line if I didn't have his work clothes picked out for him by the time he thought it should be done.

-He'd occasionally ask "aren't those pants kind of slutty for work?"  When I'd get into the office I'd ask someone and they'd laugh at me until they realized I was asking a serious question. 

-I planned and replanned our wedding three times because he would all of a sudden decide the date wouldn't work.

-We'd be out for what appeared to be a decent evening with people and then we'd get in the car and he'd turn to me and say "I can't believe you would embarrass me like that!" and proceed to tear me a new one.   Of course he'd never fess up to what I had actually done.  I suppose I should have been grateful to be out at all though because every single time we went out he'd pull the "you don't really have to go. you don't even want to go right?"  a few times we even set out and he turned around to take me back home because he decided i didn't really want to go did I?  commence begging from me!

-The issue of having kids was when I finally saw my chance to get out though.  Crazily enough I didn't like his genius plan to have me be his wife, and he'd find another woman to have kids with.  When I didn't go for that, he declared, well maybe we should get separated then.  And I said - you know what? maybe we should!  CHECKMATE!  It was a long and crazy ordeal full of other PA behaviors (i'm going to kill myself, yada yada, the whole nine yards), but I did eventually get away!

These seem so funny now because they are just so utterly ridiculous, it almost embarrasses me to think that I thought this was normal.  And this is just the PA stuff, the downright regular aggressive stuff is crazy too.  The story does have a happy ending though - I met an absolute doll of a man who I have been married to for three years now and we have a wonderful, happy and healthy marriage.  I don't take it for granted for a second!

Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mel the Redcap on January 21, 2014, 05:15:20 PM
...GregariousIntrovert, that's not just PA, that's freakin' Darth Vader behaviour! :o Glad you're out of that mess!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Iris on January 21, 2014, 05:21:06 PM
Pod to Mel! Congrats on escaping that lunatic.

Although EvilIris is secretly having a little snorty giggle at a grown man getting in a snit because his wife hadn't *picked out his clothes for him*.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: nuit93 on January 21, 2014, 05:48:24 PM
Err...I think that goes beyond PA behavior to downright abusive!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Julian on January 21, 2014, 05:54:12 PM
Pod to Mel! Congrats on escaping that lunatic.

Although EvilIris is secretly having a little snorty giggle at a grown man getting in a snit because his wife hadn't *picked out his clothes for him*.

Yeah, that was the bit that stuck out to me too.  Seriously?? 

I'd have run at the three wedding dates...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Ceallach on January 21, 2014, 07:22:33 PM
My mother is a lovely person, would do anything for her kids and friends, if anything she's actually a bit of a doormat she's so self-sacrificing - but BOY is she PA.    We have always called her on it, and to be far she has improved over the years, when she realised we would hold her to face value of what she said.

My favourite example is from when I was 16 years old, I'm pretty sure I've told this story on eHell somewhere before.   My parents had been legally separated for 8 years, but only recently divorced.  My Dad had a girlfriend "Susan" he'd been with for 2 years, they'd just moved in together.   

Once day I was driving in the car with my mother and siblings, and the topic of weddings came up for some reason.   Sadly, I can't recall the exact wording, but my mother basically said that if I got married and "Susan" was coming, she wouldn't attend and would just go to the church separately to pray.  She said this in the most PA way you can imagine, with a bit of a sniff.   What she wanted me to say was "Of course we wouldn't pick Susan over you!" or beg her to come.   Instead my very calm response was "You're not going to come to your own daughter's wedding?  That's really sad."   She backtracked quite quickly and we moved on, never to discuss the topic again.   I got married when I was 22, and both Susan and my mother did attend my wedding!   ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GregariousIntrovert on January 21, 2014, 07:53:45 PM
Quote
Although EvilIris is secretly having a little snorty giggle at a grown man getting in a snit because his wife hadn't *picked out his clothes for him*.

::small voice:: he made me tie his shoes too.  not all the time, but....yeah. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mel the Redcap on January 21, 2014, 08:01:41 PM
Quote
Although EvilIris is secretly having a little snorty giggle at a grown man getting in a snit because his wife hadn't *picked out his clothes for him*.

::small voice:: he made me tie his shoes too.  not all the time, but....yeah.

...wowza. Well, at least you can mentally point and laugh now!

Seriously, if somebody behaves to you like that, it usually means they have you so ground down and gaslighted that it takes immense strength of will to get yourself up and out of the situation. Kudos to you for growing your spine under severely adverse conditions and getting clear of that piece of posterior haberdashery!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: shhh its me on January 21, 2014, 09:13:22 PM
When my kids say "But I didn't make that mess!" It irritates me. As a sahm/housewife, it's a regular part of my day to clean up messes that other people make.  If I only cleaned up messes I made, our house would be a pigsty.   So when I ask my older two boys to pitch in and help me to clean up a common room of the house such as the room their computer is in, or the living room and they say "But I didn't make that mess, why should I have to clean it up?", they don't get sent to their room, they get more work to do. 

They have chores anyway that involve cleaning up messes others make, such as doing dishes and scooping litter boxes.  The youngest doesn't have chores yet, being almost 16 months, but when prompted he will pick up his toys and put them in a container.

I'm sort of in the opposite camp here, but then again I don't have kids.  For the bolded, which is true, if everyone took care of their own messes, there wouldn't be much of a mess.  You made some valid points, though.  I might have to try to rearrange my way of thinking here.

I don't really mind cleaning up as well being a SAHM and being home more during the day than anyone else, I do have more time to get things done, but I don't appreciate when the others make my job even more difficult by not doing a reasonable amount of cleaning up after themselves.  I mean I don't mind vacuuming and doing laundry, mopping and such.  But when they leave things strewn on the floor that I need to vacuum, stuff gets picked up (sometimes hidden if I'm really irritated) I get a bit of an attitude when I hear "But it's not mine, why do I have to clean it up?" or "I didn't dirty that dish, why do I have to pick it up?"

They are told "Because you are a part of the family and it all goes towards the upkeep of a home so you may as well learn now and I look at it as doing your future mate a favor by teaching you to not be a slob."

I'll add most of cleaning a house is communal cleaning, its not possible to just remove your dust from a living room once a week.  Vacuuming , scrubbing the floors & bathroom , washing the windows,  dusting , lawn-care and for most families cooking & clean up , grocery shopping , laundry.  Once you consider age appropriateness and time management it doesn't normal workout that each person (in a 4 person household ) to do 1/4 of the work.  After  shopping ,cooking dinner  , cleaning the pots and pans, cleaning the bathroom debating who left the plate in the living room and who has the most cloths in the dryer that needs to emptied  not something I'd have much patience for. 
 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Slartibartfast on January 21, 2014, 09:20:13 PM
GregariousIntrovert, I'm definitely glad you got out of that situation!  He sounds like a narcissist, and it's kind of creepy how easily that kind of behavior can start to seem normal after long enough.

(If anyone is interested, there's an excellent novel out there called Blue-Eyed Devil (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Eyed-Devil-Travis-Lisa-Kleypas-ebook/dp/B000XPPVCE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390360632&sr=8-1&keywords=blue+eyed+devil+lisa+kleypas) by Lisa Kleypas in which the main character's initial husband (she meets a much better guy, later on  ;)) is a narcissist and has eerily similar behaviors to what you described, down to the gaslighting and the changing his mind on dinners and the fights after perfectly good times out with other couples.  I'd say it straddles the line between "romance" and "women's fiction" and even though I don't normally read contemporary, or books set in Texas, it's probably one of my favorite books ever and I re-read it at least once a year  ;D  I highly recommend it to anyone who wants a really moving (both good and painful, but the good kind of painful) read.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Iris on January 21, 2014, 09:35:54 PM
Quote
Although EvilIris is secretly having a little snorty giggle at a grown man getting in a snit because his wife hadn't *picked out his clothes for him*.

::small voice:: he made me tie his shoes too.  not all the time, but....yeah.

I literally  gasped and said "Noooooooo" out loud when I read that.

Pod to Mel again. In all seriousness I am so impressed that after years of this carp you managed to throw off the conditioning and get out. I've seen a good friend go through something similar and I saw how very difficult it was for her to realise that she deserved better.  I'm so grateful that I have never experienced that but am always aware that "there but for the grace of God..."

However EvilI ris reserves the right to internally mock an able bodied human who acts like a preschooler.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kimblee on January 21, 2014, 09:47:09 PM
...GregariousIntrovert, that's not just PA, that's freakin' Darth Vader behaviour! :o Glad you're out of that mess!

left me open mouthed.  that's abuse and thank diety/force of your choice you got out!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: finecabernet on January 21, 2014, 10:20:27 PM
I had a friend who was very careful with how she was perceived by others, but not as careful with how she treated friends. So one day we were invited to go to another state to visit a friend of a friend who had just had a baby. My friend wanted to get this person a gift, but wanted me to buy it (even though at the time she did not have a job, and was a full-time student with more free time than I had). I had plans for a particular night, and told her I didn't think a gift was necessary and that I wouldn't have time to buy it anyway. She insisted that it be bought, and for the first time with her, I did not alter my plans in order to do what she wanted. She went ahead and bought the gift anyway, and then made a big fuss the next day about what a major sacrifice it had been for her to go out and buy it when she had so much work to do the night before, etc. I have to say I was proud of myself for not caving in and just smiled as she complained.

Post script to the story: The person we bought the gift for could not have been more indifferent to it, and our mutual friend that it was silly for us to even buy it for her.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: EveLGenius on January 21, 2014, 10:35:25 PM
My father likes to make outrageous suggestions, and then complain that YOU are the unreasonable one for not thinking they were good ideas.  For years, whenever we would drive past a Hooters (for those not in the USA, it's a bar and grill where the waitresses all wear very revealing clothing) he would say, "We should go there for dinner!  Haw, haw!"  Please understand that he's a lawyer, my mother a professor at a religious college, and both he and my mother are speakers in their church, so in their world, Hooters is considered Not A Polite Place.

I finally snapped.  We were driving down a street with a number of restaurants, and discussing dinner options.  There was a Hooters, among about 10 restaurants, and Dad once again said, "Let's go to Hooters!  Ha, ha!"  So I said, "OK," and started to pull into the parking lot.  Well he just about stripped the gears on his tongue,he back pedaled so hard.  I pointed out that I didn't mind, I'd heard their food was good, DD (age 1) was eating food that I had packed, so no problem.  DH backed me, bless him, and Mom figured out what we were doing and said it was fine with her.  Dad finally said he was more in the mood for steak, so we went elsewhere.

He hasn't mentioned Hooters in the last 7 years, now.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 21, 2014, 11:28:01 PM
My father likes to make outrageous suggestions, and then complain that YOU are the unreasonable one for not thinking they were good ideas.  For years, whenever we would drive past a Hooters (for those not in the USA, it's a bar and grill where the waitresses all wear very revealing clothing) he would say, "We should go there for dinner!  Haw, haw!"  Please understand that he's a lawyer, my mother a professor at a religious college, and both he and my mother are speakers in their church, so in their world, Hooters is considered Not A Polite Place.

I finally snapped.  We were driving down a street with a number of restaurants, and discussing dinner options.  There was a Hooters, among about 10 restaurants, and Dad once again said, "Let's go to Hooters!  Ha, ha!"  So I said, "OK," and started to pull into the parking lot.  Well he just about stripped the gears on his tongue,he back pedaled so hard.  I pointed out that I didn't mind, I'd heard their food was good, DD (age 1) was eating food that I had packed, so no problem.  DH backed me, bless him, and Mom figured out what we were doing and said it was fine with her.  Dad finally said he was more in the mood for steak, so we went elsewhere.

He hasn't mentioned Hooters in the last 7 years, now.

Your name is very apt my friend
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Katana_Geldar on January 22, 2014, 12:59:14 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Daquiri40 on January 22, 2014, 09:10:05 AM
My boyfriend and I were in St. Louis near the arch and were looking for somewhere for lunch.  We were walking.  We saw a place called Show Me's and went in.  I had to look twice because the waitresses had black aprons on and looked as if they weren't wearing pants.  They were wearing very short shorts with black dance tights with a lot of rear end hanging out. 

Duh!  Show Me!  Ha!  We laughed about it.  The waitresses were very nice and were attractive and the food was good but I don't think I will be going back there.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: daen on January 22, 2014, 10:28:42 AM
My father likes to make outrageous suggestions, and then complain that YOU are the unreasonable one for not thinking they were good ideas.  For years, whenever we would drive past a Hooters (for those not in the USA, it's a bar and grill where the waitresses all wear very revealing clothing) he would say, "We should go there for dinner!  Haw, haw!"  Please understand that he's a lawyer, my mother a professor at a religious college, and both he and my mother are speakers in their church, so in their world, Hooters is considered Not A Polite Place.

I finally snapped.  We were driving down a street with a number of restaurants, and discussing dinner options.  There was a Hooters, among about 10 restaurants, and Dad once again said, "Let's go to Hooters!  Ha, ha!"  So I said, "OK," and started to pull into the parking lot.  Well he just about stripped the gears on his tongue,he back pedaled so hard.  I pointed out that I didn't mind, I'd heard their food was good, DD (age 1) was eating food that I had packed, so no problem.  DH backed me, bless him, and Mom figured out what we were doing and said it was fine with her.  Dad finally said he was more in the mood for steak, so we went elsewhere.

He hasn't mentioned Hooters in the last 7 years, now.

That... that is  beautiful.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: VorFemme on January 22, 2014, 10:43:20 AM
My father likes to make outrageous suggestions, and then complain that YOU are the unreasonable one for not thinking they were good ideas.  For years, whenever we would drive past a Hooters (for those not in the USA, it's a bar and grill where the waitresses all wear very revealing clothing) he would say, "We should go there for dinner!  Haw, haw!"  Please understand that he's a lawyer, my mother a professor at a religious college, and both he and my mother are speakers in their church, so in their world, Hooters is considered Not A Polite Place.

I finally snapped.  We were driving down a street with a number of restaurants, and discussing dinner options.  There was a Hooters, among about 10 restaurants, and Dad once again said, "Let's go to Hooters!  Ha, ha!"  So I said, "OK," and started to pull into the parking lot.  Well he just about stripped the gears on his tongue,he back pedaled so hard.  I pointed out that I didn't mind, I'd heard their food was good, DD (age 1) was eating food that I had packed, so no problem.  DH backed me, bless him, and Mom figured out what we were doing and said it was fine with her.  Dad finally said he was more in the mood for steak, so we went elsewhere.

He hasn't mentioned Hooters in the last 7 years, now.

That... that is  beautiful.

SNERK...

Love it!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Slartibartfast on January 22, 2014, 11:10:29 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

There's one near my house.  MIL and I took Babybartfast once when she was about a year old.  It was pretty empty at lunchtime, and all the waitresses cooed over Babybartfast the entire time.  It was adorable.

What was less adorable was one of the few other patrons there, a skeevy-looking middle-aged guy dining along who spent the entire time leering at all the waitresses.  I mean, I know it's part of the restaurant's image and all, but there's a difference between "ooh, look, they're all good-looking" and actively TRYING to look like you're imagining what you want to do to them whether they like the idea or not  :-\  I felt really bad for the waitresses, having to put up with guys like that.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: shhh its me on January 22, 2014, 11:21:09 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

There's one near my house.  MIL and I took Babybartfast once when she was about a year old.  It was pretty empty at lunchtime, and all the waitresses cooed over Babybartfast the entire time.  It was adorable.

What was less adorable was one of the few other patrons there, a skeevy-looking middle-aged guy dining along who spent the entire time leering at all the waitresses.  I mean, I know it's part of the restaurant's image and all, but there's a difference between "ooh, look, they're all good-looking" and actively TRYING to look like you're imagining what you want to do to them whether they like the idea or not  :-\  I felt really bad for the waitresses, having to put up with guys like that.

I find Hooters to be the oddest themed restaurant ....WE're a fmaily place , we're named for both a bird and a euphemism for breasts and we insist our waitress are well endowed and wear low cut T shirts and short shorts BUT WE"RE A FAMILY RESTAURANT BRING YOUR KIDS BRING YOU WIFE , STOP BY FOR SUNDAY BRUNCH BRING YOUR PASTOR !!!! CAUSE WE ARE A FAMILY RESTAURANT!!   The uniforms and large breasted staff have nothing to do with the name is a owl get it!!!!   I'm not offended by the concept I'm perplexed... they seem to not want themselves or their customers to acknowledge their concept expect in hiring practices.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Sophia on January 22, 2014, 11:22:32 AM
The Hooters story reminded me of one from my Grandmother.  She would always order a mixed drink more popular with the older generation (She is in her 90's).  Then complain that the bar didn't have something (pickled olives?) to add to the drink. Then she'd go on and on about how the area where we lived was so inferior to where she lived. 

In early college I worked as a waitress at a restaurant where everyone would be eating.  My parents gave me money to buy a jar of pickled olives (or whatever it was) just to shut her up.  Sure enough, she asked for it and was quite disappointed when I didn't bat an eye and served her the drink.  She never asked for them again.  Or, at least she never complained about the lack which was what drove us nuts. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kimblee on January 22, 2014, 11:22:53 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

Our family went for my brother's 13th birthday. I honestly don't remember the food, but the waitresses were super nice to the boys and gave DB a free T-shirt they all signed and wrote nice things on.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on January 22, 2014, 11:24:14 AM
Back when my mother didn't drive, one of my dad's favorite ploys was demanding "Well, do YOU want to drive?" when she complained about his behavior behind the wheel.  (He's a lot better now, but when he was younger, I'm pretty sure he invented road rage.)  Then my mother got her license, Dad tried the same old line, and he was flabbergasted when she said angrily "As a matter of fact, yes, I DO want to drive!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Virg on January 22, 2014, 11:34:31 AM
shhh its me wrote:

"I find Hooters to be the oddest themed restaurant ....WE're a fmaily place , we're named for both a bird and a euphemism for breasts and we insist our waitress are well endowed and wear low cut T shirts and short shorts BUT WE"RE A FAMILY RESTAURANT BRING YOUR KIDS BRING YOU WIFE , STOP BY FOR SUNDAY BRUNCH BRING YOUR PASTOR !!!! CAUSE WE ARE A FAMILY RESTAURANT!!"

The problem is that they started as a stag-bar-turned-restaurant place where the intention was to draw in men with the waitstaff, but then found out that the market for men looking for a restaurant with "girls! girls! girls!" to be much smaller than the market for family dining, so they took a stylistic left turn in their marketing, strongly playing up the "family friendly" aspect.  The result is a little schizophrenic because the two target markets they're trying to meld don't mix, and it all comes out a little weird.

Virg
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on January 22, 2014, 11:36:45 AM
That reminds me of the advertising campaign Las Vegas ran a few years ago, saying how suitable it is for a family vacation.  "Bring the kids!"   To be fair, I've never been, but friends who've visited recently said "Yeahhhh, it's still pretty much all about gambling and hookers."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Sirius on January 22, 2014, 11:43:20 AM
Quote
Although EvilIris is secretly having a little snorty giggle at a grown man getting in a snit because his wife hadn't *picked out his clothes for him*.

::small voice:: he made me tie his shoes too.  not all the time, but....yeah.

I'd have tied them together.

Seriously, GregI, you're well rid of him.  I'll bet he was raised in an environment where he was the "fair haired boy" and what he said was law.  My brother was like that...until he pitched a fit in front of company and got what had been coming to him for years.  To his immense credit he straightened out, and now we're best friends. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: shhh its me on January 22, 2014, 11:45:43 AM
That reminds me of the advertising campaign Las Vegas ran a few years ago, saying how suitable it is for a family vacation.  "Bring the kids!"   To be fair, I've never been, but friends who've visited recently said "Yeahhhh, it's still pretty much all about gambling and hookers."

I remember that at least at the time they tried to build a few kid friendly things....like a few roller coasters , a star trek ride and a few other things.  I recall laughing a bit when the ads then gave up on kids and became "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kimblee on January 22, 2014, 11:52:22 AM
That reminds me of the advertising campaign Las Vegas ran a few years ago, saying how suitable it is for a family vacation.  "Bring the kids!"   To be fair, I've never been, but friends who've visited recently said "Yeahhhh, it's still pretty much all about gambling and hookers."

I remember that at least at the time they tried to build a few kid friendly things....like a few roller coasters , a star trek ride and a few other things.  I recall laughing a bit when the ads then gave up on kids and became "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"

Except it doesn't...  :D

As a good friend of mine discovered. She drives one of those huge trucks and picked up a guy(?!) in Louisiana who wanted to go to New York to see a friend. He said he'd find his own way back. Well, his "friend" turned out of be "already friendly" with someone else and he asked my friend if he could go with her until she headed back to Louisiana. She agreed, but told him it'd be a month before she made it that way and he'd better earn his ride and help her out. He agreed and off they went.

When one of their stops was Las Vegas they got married and will celebrate a 3 year anniversary sometime this summer. The good news is, he gave a last name to the baby she got from a previous visit to Las Vegas. (I tease, but they're actually a great couple, devoted parents and can run a route twice as fast now that he's got his license.)

No PA people here, but its a cute love story.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: goldilocks on January 22, 2014, 01:20:30 PM
I spent two years with a guy who was the king of obstructionist PA behavior.  He would - sometimes reluctantly - agree to do something, then deliberately make it difficult to get it done.  His hope was that I would eventually tell him to forget it.  Before I caught on to what he was doing, I usually would.  However, once I started figuring it out, I stopped letting him off the hook.

The best example I have is when my BFF "Ashley" got married.  Ashley and I had drifted apart for a few years at this point, but had very recently reconnected.  (nothing bad happened, just normal ebbs and flows of life.)  She had invited both of us to her wedding.  Prior to this, I had spent a good chunk of my summer rearranging my weekend work schedule so I could go with PA Boyfriend to his friends' weddings.  I think there were three of them that summer.  So, when I told him we had been invited to Ashley's wedding, he heaved a huge sigh, but agreed to go.

The wedding was at 11 on a Saturday morning.  He generally got up at 9 during the week, so he was not going to have to get up any earlier than normal.  Still, I arrived at his house with coffee (made the very particular way he liked it) and his favorite type of muffin at 10:15 that morning.  He was lying in bed, fully clothed, but sound asleep.  When I walked into his room, he woke up, and started to very slowly get up and start moving.  He kept glancing over at me to see how I was reacting - I'm sure in hopes that I would tell him to forget it.  Instead, I told him that we needed to leave in 15 minutes and that his coffee and food were downstairs.

He did go and we got to the wedidng on time, but he made sure everyone - including the bride and groom - knew he did NOT want to be there.

Had he said no from the beginning when I asked him to go, I'm not going to lie, there would have been a fight.  He knew that.  In the past, though, when he dragged his feet and found all these things he HAD to do before we could leave, I would always cave and tell him he - or we - didn't have to go.  And I was done with that.

He realized I was going to take what he said at face value - if he said he was going to do something, I expected him to do it.  I realized that me asking him to do things and then holding him to it meant he was going to make sure everyone was miserable.

We broke up less than two months later.

This is my ex, surely; my friends now call him The Fun Sucker.


this is exactly my ex-husband.  Whenever I "made" him do something (attend a wedding, company event, etc), he make sure to embarrass me so that I would eventually stop asking him to go.   I did.  And I went further than that - I eventually moved out and divorced him?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Tsaiko on January 22, 2014, 01:21:42 PM
That reminds me of the advertising campaign Las Vegas ran a few years ago, saying how suitable it is for a family vacation.  "Bring the kids!"   To be fair, I've never been, but friends who've visited recently said "Yeahhhh, it's still pretty much all about gambling and hookers."

I remember that at least at the time they tried to build a few kid friendly things....like a few roller coasters , a star trek ride and a few other things.  I recall laughing a bit when the ads then gave up on kids and became "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"

They also try to sell themselves as a great place for conventions as well, especially after the downturn in the economy really took a chunk out of their regular business. I was in Las Vegas about 3-4 years ago for a professional convention. I would not go back for a convention and there is no way I'd take kids there. In fact, I wrote to the organization that hosts the convention and told them that if they ever consider Las Vegas again, they could count me out. From what I understand, several hundred other members told them the same thing.

The worst part for me was there would be dozens of guys lining the street handing out sexually explicit pictures of naked women to anyone they could. Men, women, kids: didn't matter. And then at the end of the night and into the next morning, the street would be covered with these pictures. I am not a prude, but I  felt sexually harassed walking down the street (and I mean literally doing nothing but walking down the street) with these picture every where. I'm sorry, but there was nothing professional or kid friendly about that city. Is it any wonder why so many professional organizations have a hard time justifying holding a convention there?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: blue2000 on January 22, 2014, 01:53:44 PM
That reminds me of the advertising campaign Las Vegas ran a few years ago, saying how suitable it is for a family vacation.  "Bring the kids!"   To be fair, I've never been, but friends who've visited recently said "Yeahhhh, it's still pretty much all about gambling and hookers."

I remember that at least at the time they tried to build a few kid friendly things....like a few roller coasters , a star trek ride and a few other things.  I recall laughing a bit when the ads then gave up on kids and became "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"

They also try to sell themselves as a great place for conventions as well, especially after the downturn in the economy really took a chunk out of their regular business. I was in Las Vegas about 3-4 years ago for a professional convention. I would not go back for a convention and there is no way I'd take kids there. In fact, I wrote to the organization that hosts the convention and told them that if they ever consider Las Vegas again, they could count me out. From what I understand, several hundred other members told them the same thing.

The worst part for me was there would be dozens of guys lining the street handing out sexually explicit pictures of naked women to anyone they could. Men, women, kids: didn't matter. And then at the end of the night and into the next morning, the street would be covered with these pictures. I am not a prude, but I  felt sexually harassed walking down the street (and I mean literally doing nothing but walking down the street) with these picture every where. I'm sorry, but there was nothing professional or kid friendly about that city. Is it any wonder why so many professional organizations have a hard time justifying holding a convention there?

That's odd. I wouldn't have a problem taking kids there.

A relative used to live there. He doesn't gamble, and neither does most of my family. I don't think anyone is much interested in strip clubs either. But we had a great time visiting. There are lots of things to see and do that aren't exclusively adult.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AfleetAlex on January 22, 2014, 02:35:39 PM
Kudos to you for growing your spine under severely adverse conditions and getting clear of that piece of posterior haberdashery!

I am SO borrowing this!!  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: jedikaiti on January 22, 2014, 02:39:12 PM
Kudos to you for growing your spine under severely adverse conditions and getting clear of that piece of posterior haberdashery!

I am SO borrowing this!!  ;D

Me too!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mel the Redcap on January 22, 2014, 02:41:24 PM
Kudos to you for growing your spine under severely adverse conditions and getting clear of that piece of posterior haberdashery!

I am SO borrowing this!!  ;D

Haha, you're welcome to.  ;D It was the most EHell-friendly way I could think of to phrase a term I use for extremely unpleasant people.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AfleetAlex on January 22, 2014, 02:45:13 PM
I seem to use the short version a LOT while driving.   :D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on January 22, 2014, 03:41:34 PM
That reminds me of the advertising campaign Las Vegas ran a few years ago, saying how suitable it is for a family vacation.  "Bring the kids!"   To be fair, I've never been, but friends who've visited recently said "Yeahhhh, it's still pretty much all about gambling and hookers."

I remember that at least at the time they tried to build a few kid friendly things....like a few roller coasters , a star trek ride and a few other things.  I recall laughing a bit when the ads then gave up on kids and became "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"

They also try to sell themselves as a great place for conventions as well, especially after the downturn in the economy really took a chunk out of their regular business. I was in Las Vegas about 3-4 years ago for a professional convention. I would not go back for a convention and there is no way I'd take kids there. In fact, I wrote to the organization that hosts the convention and told them that if they ever consider Las Vegas again, they could count me out. From what I understand, several hundred other members told them the same thing.

The worst part for me was there would be dozens of guys lining the street handing out sexually explicit pictures of naked women to anyone they could. Men, women, kids: didn't matter. And then at the end of the night and into the next morning, the street would be covered with these pictures. I am not a prude, but I  felt sexually harassed walking down the street (and I mean literally doing nothing but walking down the street) with these picture every where. I'm sorry, but there was nothing professional or kid friendly about that city. Is it any wonder why so many professional organizations have a hard time justifying holding a convention there?

That's odd. I wouldn't have a problem taking kids there.

A relative used to live there. He doesn't gamble, and neither does most of my family. I don't think anyone is much interested in strip clubs either. But we had a great time visiting. There are lots of things to see and do that aren't exclusively adult.

I think it depends in Vegas, where you go and what you do. If you stay on the strip, and walk the strip, yeah lots of "adult activities" at every turn. But outside of the strip there are other things to do and see. The kids I used to babysit, their family went every year (5 adults, 3 kids, extra if me and my mom joined them). Only three of the adults gambled, no one was interested in strip clubs, and the kids always had a good time. They're big Star Trek fans, and they'd do the wax museum, the roller coaster, and all the buffets. 

Oddly enough, prostitution is actually illegal in the city of Las Vegas (well the county), the brothels exist in other counties outside of Vegas. (random information no one asked for or needed, that's what I'm here for)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on January 22, 2014, 03:55:08 PM
When out and about during the day it is normal for one to get hungry. If you are out and about with a normal person you would expect a normal person to address this issue by saying "Man, I'm getting hungry. What do you think about stopping to get lunch?" and perhaps a discussion of restaurants near by for which to consume food at.

If you are out with my grandma you get "I sure to like Restaurant", at which point you are to say "Oh, are you hungry?" to which she will respond "Oh, no I was just saying, I like Restaurant and we're near by to it, but no, but if you are of course..." now is your cue to affirm you are in fact hungry and suggest Restaurant to which she will respond "Well, I'm not hungry, but if you want to go, I'll have a little something, just to keep you company", at which point you go to Restaurant and she eats an entire meal because of course she was hungry!

This script has been laid out for me since childhood. But, see, I've never been great with PA people. The first time I was driving us around, grandma is upfront with me, mom is in the back and we pass by Red Lobster (grandma's favorite place), cue grandma to say "Oh, gee, I love Red Lobster", to which I respond "Oh yeah, they're good" and keep on driving. A little while later we're by another restaurant "Oh, I like this place too!" to which I say "Oh yeah, I love their dessert" and we keep on driving. Third place, same conversation. Finally about an hour later my grandma says "Oh for the love of, Glitter! When are we gonna eat!" and I respond, very innocently, "Oh, why didn't you say you were hungry?", cue non-stop laughter from my mom. Grandma has learned to just tell me what she wants. She's still PA with everyone else because they do what she wants, but I just don't. I don't even actively try not to, I just don't think about it. If you want something from me, you have to be a grown up and use your words.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Jocelyn on January 22, 2014, 11:29:06 PM
My mother was fond of 'winning' disagreements by saying, 'I guess I'm just a flop and a failure as a mother.'
The last time I heard this phrase, I cued the crickets.  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PeterM on January 23, 2014, 12:54:46 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I've only been a couple of times, but it was basically just like any other restaurant but with decent wings and more cleavage. No complaints from me. Plus it was really funny when our waitress turned out to be one of the kids my friend had counseled when he worked at a camp in high school.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Runningstar on January 23, 2014, 05:57:02 AM
My mother is usually PA.  One day we invited her and stepfather (SF) to dinner.  We are a regular family, 3 kids, bills, and have to watch our money, and DM and SF are absolute gluttons I needed to serve something nice, but not too expensive and not too time consuming and a lot of it ........ so lasagna, crusty bread and a nice salad.  Well, DM seems to be enjoying the dinner, and is in fact on her fourth serving of lasagna when she mentions how she just never did like Italian food.  My DH doesn't miss a beat and replies " well you certainly seem to be doing ok with it isn't this is your fourth serving".  DM just gasped.  I tried to control my giggling, but sadly had to "go take care of something in the kitchen".  As to giving the PA person what they want, over the years I have heard from DM how wonderful the expensive restaurant dinners that my two DB's have treated her and SF to have been.  Well, I can't afford this, and so, since my simple homemade dinners are so hard for her to enjoy, haven't had them over to dinner for about 8 months now and counting.   
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Ghosty on January 23, 2014, 06:05:00 AM
wow, I would rather have a yummy homecooked meal with family than go to the most expensive restaurant in the world!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Runningstar on January 23, 2014, 06:09:38 AM
wow, I would rather have a yummy homecooked meal with family than go to the most expensive restaurant in the world!
I know!!  Me too!! 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Margo on January 23, 2014, 06:33:34 AM
Excellent come-back from your DH!

My parents were very good at stopping any of us going down the PA route as they would respond to what we said, not what we meant.


Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: esteban on January 23, 2014, 07:33:04 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I've only been a couple of times, but it was basically just like any other restaurant but with decent wings and more cleavage. No complaints from me. Plus it was really funny when our waitress turned out to be one of the kids my friend had counseled when he worked at a camp in high school.

The only time I went to hooters was as part of a group of a few people.  One of them decided to splurge and ordered the Dom Perignon and 8 wings plate for like $200 that was offered.  They brought it out, and he asked for some bleu cheese for the wings.  The waitress told him it would be an extra 25 cents.  He was peeved, and decided to make a point by having her get a manger to comp it (because she wouldn't/couldn't) last time I went there if the servers have that little amount of power to make the customers happy.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 23, 2014, 08:40:48 AM
Glitter - we must have the same grandmother.  Mine is the queen of PA behavior, and she would pull that on every family vacation.  My mom started doing the same thing you did - wait for her to directly ask.  Apparently she would really grate on my grandfather's nerves by doing that - which is why we think she did it. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on January 23, 2014, 08:48:46 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on January 23, 2014, 09:05:52 AM
I like Hooters. I mean, it's not my favorite place to eat, but the waitresses are always friendly to us, the food is decent (same as any other sports bar) and they usually have games/fights on TV to watch. Yeah, the girls are in short shorts and tight tank tops. They're in similar get ups at any other sports bar I've been too. Though, now we're really into going to the Tilted Kilt, mostly because two of our friends are servers there. I think the food is a little better at the Kilt then at Hooters.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: bloo on January 23, 2014, 09:12:23 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.

OT, but your comment about the wings is true. They're done as well or better at lots of places now. Twenty years ago, it was the only place to get good buffalo wings.

Twenty years ago, I was offered a job there, twice in year's period of time. And I've never been more than an...ahem 'B' cup. So no hooters there.

I remember a few of us gals going out for a few drinks and some food and we decided on Hooters. The wings and grouper sandwiches were excellent (at the time) and how the waitresses were dressed didn't even register on our radar. You would think with hot waitresses walking around scantily dressed, that no one would pay any attention to us. But all the rest of the patrons were men and we got a lot of unwanted attention. Still can't figure that one out years later. I smile when I think about going when I was 9 months pregnant and about to pop and the waitstaff looking like they felt sorry for me when I waddled in. They were so sweet and took good care of us.

But I remember many years ago, my DH's grandparents announced they'd went to Hooters for lunch. I was surprised and asked them what they thought of the place. Grandma said, "Well the food was okay...but I don't think we'll be going back."

I asked, "Why?"

Grandma thought about it and said, "It was too loud." ;D

We don't eat out much anyway but we popped in the last time we vacationed in Florida during winter (we live in Northeast Ohio).  DH wanted some wings and I'm always up for wings and then, grinning, asked for me to pose with the waitress for a picture to send to his buddies up north with the message, 'guess where I am?' just to annoy them.  ::)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GratefulMaria on January 23, 2014, 09:14:57 AM
My mother was fond of 'winning' disagreements by saying, 'I guess I'm just a flop and a failure as a mother.'
The last time I heard this phrase, I cued the crickets.  >:D

My mother's latest is a sad little "You hate me."  Can I borrow your crickets?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: bopper on January 23, 2014, 09:16:50 AM
Like the Hooter story (sorry if I told this one before)....

I was doing training for a company.  The person, Bev,  who I was working with would arrange for lunch at the various sites.
One site we were going to order pizza so Bev asked what kind of pizza everyone wanted.  One guy who had been a bit smart alecky the whole time said "Anchovy!"  Bev (and I) were getting a bit sick of his smartaleckiness so she went and ordered an Anchovy pizza (among others).  When the pizza came, she brought it to him and said "Here is your anchovy pizza".   He sputtered and said "I was just kidding!"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Harriet Jones on January 23, 2014, 09:19:05 AM
It's been ages since I went to a Hooter's, but I didn't find the wings all that tasty *and* some of the wings still had feathers on them.  Yuck.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on January 23, 2014, 10:16:18 AM
That reminds me of Bart Simpson ordering the squid platter, extra tentacles, and being grossed out when he actually got it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Cherry91 on January 23, 2014, 02:23:24 PM
Posting for updates - I eat stuff like this up!  >:D

ETA: Suddenly remembered one - my friends and I called it PassiveAgressiveCeption. In my second year of university, I had a housemate who turned out to be horrible, and one of his worst traits was how very PA he was. Finally, one of the other housemates called him on it. Once he'd "learned" what Passive Aggressive meant - we all agreed he was trying to put other housemate on the spot, there's no way it was the first time THAT accusation had been thrown at him - he proceeded to find as many different definitions as possible and read them out in such a hurt tone, going "I'm not like that am I?" That's right, he was passive aggressive about being passive aggressive.

He only pulled it on me once - he asked to borrow a dictionary (I was an English student, it was a safe bet) so he could yet again look up the phrase passive aggressive, read it in a hurt tone and ask if I thought he was like that. I looked him dead in the eye and said "Allan, if you got worse they'd start putting your picture under the definition."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 23, 2014, 04:12:39 PM
I"m a big fan of korean style fried chicken.  yum, yum yummy.  Bon Chon seems to be a chain in the NE.  Not sure how far south or west it's traveled
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Katana_Geldar on January 23, 2014, 04:29:22 PM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
According to DH, you can very much read naughty magazines for the articles. Particularly Playboy.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on January 23, 2014, 04:33:06 PM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
According to DH, you can very much read naughty magazines for the articles. Particularly Playboy.
They do have really good articles! I can't speak for any of the other ones out there, but Playboy has a pretty good variety of topics.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: VorFemme on January 23, 2014, 04:45:30 PM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
According to DH, you can very much read naughty magazines for the articles. Particularly Playboy.

I remember reading science fiction story collections that referenced their original publication several years earlier....in Playboy...some of the settings or happenings in the story were not going to pass muster in a magazine that small children might pick up - like a matter transportation device malfunctioning & the situation was NOT going to be one anyone wanted to explain to their kids.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: dawbs on January 23, 2014, 05:00:55 PM
*snip*

I remember reading science fiction story collections that referenced their original publication several years earlier....in Playboy...some of the settings or happenings in the story were not going to pass muster in a magazine that small children might pick up - like a matter transportation device malfunctioning & the situation was NOT going to be one anyone wanted to explain to their kids.

A lot of amazing writers were published there--to some extent, back when it wasn't seen as a big deal to write for kids one day and adults (with adult themes) another.  Roald Dahl and Shel Silverstein come to mind immediately.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: jedikaiti on January 23, 2014, 05:07:49 PM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
According to DH, you can very much read naughty magazines for the articles. Particularly Playboy.

I once cited Playboy for a term paper in college. Mainly to see if I could get a reaction out of the prof. I didn't. <G>
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on January 23, 2014, 05:23:29 PM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
According to DH, you can very much read naughty magazines for the articles. Particularly Playboy.

I remember reading science fiction story collections that referenced their original publication several years earlier....in Playboy...some of the settings or happenings in the story were not going to pass muster in a magazine that small children might pick up - like a matter transportation device malfunctioning & the situation was NOT going to be one anyone wanted to explain to their kids.

In a slightly related, and amusing, aside... science magazine Omni was founded by Bob Guccione.  :D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: IrishGenes on January 23, 2014, 07:57:25 PM
The discussion of Hooters and Playboy magazine is beginning to make me feel pretty uncomfortable.  Could we steer the conversation back to PA stories, please?  :-\
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: VorFemme on January 23, 2014, 08:49:36 PM
Ever noticed that PA people think that everyone should think the same way that they do, so they really seem lost when it comes to understanding that "hints" are not enough? 

And if you don't get their hints, then you are the one who is being obnoxious or you're just too silly to recognize that "hinting" that they like *certain restaurant* means "I'm hungry, feed me".  Maybe even "feed me NOW, my blood sugar is dropping"!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: RingTailedLemur on January 24, 2014, 02:41:28 AM
Ugh, hints.

My ex housemate's method was to stand and stare at me until I worked out what he wanted.  When I asked him to use his words to ask me to do things, he'd just whine, "I thought you would have realised..."
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: mechtilde on January 24, 2014, 02:45:46 AM
That reminds me of Bart Simpson ordering the squid platter, extra tentacles, and being grossed out when he actually got it.

My boys argue about who gets the most tentacles!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: eport on January 24, 2014, 08:56:19 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
According to DH, you can very much read naughty magazines for the articles. Particularly Playboy.

I once cited Playboy for a term paper in college. Mainly to see if I could get a reaction out of the prof. I didn't. <G>
I cited a PLayboy article in my senior history thesis paper in undergrad. It was an interview with a member of British Parliment who was at the event in question. Yeah, over 60 pages of writing and of course that's the footnote the professor asked me about first
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 24, 2014, 09:08:19 AM
The hinting!  Argh!  PA Exboyfriend was also quite fond of that.  We had dinner with my parents once where, instead of asking my mom to pass something, he just stared at her and at what he wanted.  Really unnerved her.  And she grew up with a mother who was the queen of passive aggressive hints.

He also wouldn't tell me if there was a problem - he'd drop these really obtuse hints and expect me to catch on.  And when I didn't, he'd give me the silent treatment.

Sometimes I look back and wonder why the heck I put up with him as long as I did.  The thing about some PA behavior is, though, that sometimes you don't catch onto it until it's already established.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: rose red on January 24, 2014, 09:41:48 AM
My mom always go "Why don't you make cupcakes since you like it so much" or "Why don't you order mushroom pizza since you like it so much" or "I'm making beef stew since you like it so much"

Of course since I'm posting in this thread, you know it's she who likes those things so much.  She loves getting what she wants and getting credit for "giving us what we want" and she loves acting like she's the one sacrificing her needs so we can have what we want.  We use to pretend not to know what she's doing and say "no, we don't want that today" but got tired of her sulking and martyr act afterwards so we just play the game now.  We do still call her on it, but she's never going to change.  Have to pick our battles and this isn't worth it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Olena on January 24, 2014, 10:36:31 AM
Oh the silent treatment! My ex used to do this all the time. An example I remember seemed to always occur first thing in the morning. You see, he would have a dream in which I was doing all sorts of devious acts with other gentlemen.  :o ??!! After many frustrating attempts (years of this) to get him to talk, tell me what the dream was about, and defending myself, etc. I finally just said, "Fine. Don't tell me." And I continue on with my day. Actually, in thinking about that now it was probably PA of me to say that to him.

I completely agree with AzaleaBloom in that sometimes we don't see the behavior until it is already established.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Yvaine on January 24, 2014, 10:39:32 AM
Oh the silent treatment! My ex used to do this all the time. An example I remember seemed to always occur first thing in the morning. You see, he would have a dream in which I was doing all sorts of devious acts with other gentlemen.  :o ??!! After many frustrating attempts (years of this) to get him to talk, tell me what the dream was about, and defending myself, etc. I finally just said, "Fine. Don't tell me." And I continue on with my day. Actually, in thinking about that now it was probably PA of me to say that to him.

I completely agree with AzaleaBloom in that sometimes we don't see the behavior until it is already established.

I hate it when I have a dream about someone doing something awful, and then I wake up irrationally mad at the real them! But acting on it is just plain nuts.  >:(
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on January 24, 2014, 11:13:29 AM
My mom always go "Why don't you make cupcakes since you like it so much" or "Why don't you order mushroom pizza since you like it so much" or "I'm making beef stew since you like it so much"

Of course since I'm posting in this thread, you know it's she who likes those things so much.  She loves getting what she wants and getting credit for "giving us what we want" and she loves acting like she's the one sacrificing her needs so we can have what we want.  We use to pretend not to know what she's doing and say "no, we don't want that today" but got tired of her sulking and martyr act afterwards so we just play the game now.  We do still call her on it, but she's never going to change.  Have to pick our battles and this isn't worth it.

Your mom would like my grandma.

My grandma spent much of my childhood explaining to my grandpa and mom that she bought Fig Newton cookies because I liked them so much. "Oh Glitter loves Fig Newtons, so I bought them for her", now, I couldn't remember ever saying I even liked them. I liked Oreos, but Fig Newtons...not so much. But I thought, grandma keeps saying I like them, so I must like them. So I kept trying to eat them. I do not like Fig Newtons. I really don't. However, grandma loves them! Now why couldn't grandma just ever say "I bought Fig Newtons because I like them", I don't know. Heck I don't even know why she was explaining why she bought anything. It wasn't like she was choosing the cookies over say regular groceries or anyone thought she had Fig Newton addiction. No one cared why she bought whatever she bought, the kitchen was her domain and we all trusted her! I buy Oreos. Why? Because I like Oreos. Do you know who I tell? No one. I'm a grown up, I want Oreos, I buy them. Partner has never become confused by the existence of Oreos in our house. It's pretty much "I didn't buy these, Glitter must have, she likes them", no question is ever raised!

Oh and yes, grandma still buys them, still says their for me, for when I visit. Of course I never eat them when I visit, and grandpa knows I don't like them, but we all just go with "they're for Glitter". She's never even tried to get me to eat them. Now the red vines she buys, those really are for me when I visit.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: GreenBird on January 24, 2014, 11:45:29 AM
Oh the silent treatment! My ex used to do this all the time. An example I remember seemed to always occur first thing in the morning. You see, he would have a dream in which I was doing all sorts of devious acts with other gentlemen.  :o ??!! After many frustrating attempts (years of this) to get him to talk, tell me what the dream was about, and defending myself, etc. I finally just said, "Fine. Don't tell me." And I continue on with my day. Actually, in thinking about that now it was probably PA of me to say that to him.

I completely agree with AzaleaBloom in that sometimes we don't see the behavior until it is already established.

Since you really were giving up on getting him to explain his weird attitude, I don't think you were PA at all to say, "Fine. Don't tell me."  You were just saying exactly what you thought, which is the opposite of PA. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Shalamar on January 24, 2014, 11:50:50 AM
Glitter, your gran should meet my MIL.  MIL is somehow convinced that I like eggs.  She often goes out of her way to point out that she made some, saying "I made sure to save some for you."  I've given up explaining that not only do I not like eggs, I actually HATE them.  They make me physically sick. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Sirius on January 24, 2014, 12:17:06 PM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.
According to DH, you can very much read naughty magazines for the articles. Particularly Playboy.

That's also what MR. Sirius says.  He told me that a lot of very good writers got their start writing fiction for Playboy.  He did admit, though, that he wouldn't have read a Playboy in front of his mother, even if all he was doing was reading a short story by Ray Bradbury.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Sirius on January 24, 2014, 12:20:15 PM
Oh the silent treatment! My ex used to do this all the time. An example I remember seemed to always occur first thing in the morning. You see, he would have a dream in which I was doing all sorts of devious acts with other gentlemen.  :o ??!! After many frustrating attempts (years of this) to get him to talk, tell me what the dream was about, and defending myself, etc. I finally just said, "Fine. Don't tell me." And I continue on with my day. Actually, in thinking about that now it was probably PA of me to say that to him.

I completely agree with AzaleaBloom in that sometimes we don't see the behavior until it is already established.

One morning my mother got upset with my father.  After a few PA comments on both their parts it came out that Mom had dreamed that my dad had done something she didn't like.  Her reasoning for being upset at him:  "I wouldn't have dreamed it if there wasn't a reason!"   
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on January 24, 2014, 01:08:44 PM
My mom always go "Why don't you make cupcakes since you like it so much" or "Why don't you order mushroom pizza since you like it so much" or "I'm making beef stew since you like it so much"

Of course since I'm posting in this thread, you know it's she who likes those things so much.  She loves getting what she wants and getting credit for "giving us what we want" and she loves acting like she's the one sacrificing her needs so we can have what we want.  We use to pretend not to know what she's doing and say "no, we don't want that today" but got tired of her sulking and martyr act afterwards so we just play the game now.  We do still call her on it, but she's never going to change.  Have to pick our battles and this isn't worth it.

Your mom would like my grandma.

My grandma spent much of my childhood explaining to my grandpa and mom that she bought Fig Newton cookies because I liked them so much. "Oh Glitter loves Fig Newtons, so I bought them for her", now, I couldn't remember ever saying I even liked them. I liked Oreos, but Fig Newtons...not so much. But I thought, grandma keeps saying I like them, so I must like them. So I kept trying to eat them. I do not like Fig Newtons. I really don't. However, grandma loves them! Now why couldn't grandma just ever say "I bought Fig Newtons because I like them", I don't know. Heck I don't even know why she was explaining why she bought anything. It wasn't like she was choosing the cookies over say regular groceries or anyone thought she had Fig Newton addiction. No one cared why she bought whatever she bought, the kitchen was her domain and we all trusted her! I buy Oreos. Why? Because I like Oreos. Do you know who I tell? No one. I'm a grown up, I want Oreos, I buy them. Partner has never become confused by the existence of Oreos in our house. It's pretty much "I didn't buy these, Glitter must have, she likes them", no question is ever raised!

Oh and yes, grandma still buys them, still says their for me, for when I visit. Of course I never eat them when I visit, and grandpa knows I don't like them, but we all just go with "they're for Glitter". She's never even tried to get me to eat them. Now the red vines she buys, those really are for me when I visit.

Next time you visit, bring Grandma some Oreos because "you know she likes them so much".  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: FauxFoodist on January 24, 2014, 11:28:11 PM
My mom always go "Why don't you make cupcakes since you like it so much" or "Why don't you order mushroom pizza since you like it so much" or "I'm making beef stew since you like it so much"

Of course since I'm posting in this thread, you know it's she who likes those things so much.  She loves getting what she wants and getting credit for "giving us what we want" and she loves acting like she's the one sacrificing her needs so we can have what we want.  We use to pretend not to know what she's doing and say "no, we don't want that today" but got tired of her sulking and martyr act afterwards so we just play the game now.  We do still call her on it, but she's never going to change.  Have to pick our battles and this isn't worth it.

Your mom would like my grandma.

My grandma spent much of my childhood explaining to my grandpa and mom that she bought Fig Newton cookies because I liked them so much. "Oh Glitter loves Fig Newtons, so I bought them for her", now, I couldn't remember ever saying I even liked them. I liked Oreos, but Fig Newtons...not so much. But I thought, grandma keeps saying I like them, so I must like them. So I kept trying to eat them. I do not like Fig Newtons. I really don't. However, grandma loves them! Now why couldn't grandma just ever say "I bought Fig Newtons because I like them", I don't know. Heck I don't even know why she was explaining why she bought anything. It wasn't like she was choosing the cookies over say regular groceries or anyone thought she had Fig Newton addiction. No one cared why she bought whatever she bought, the kitchen was her domain and we all trusted her! I buy Oreos. Why? Because I like Oreos. Do you know who I tell? No one. I'm a grown up, I want Oreos, I buy them. Partner has never become confused by the existence of Oreos in our house. It's pretty much "I didn't buy these, Glitter must have, she likes them", no question is ever raised!

Oh and yes, grandma still buys them, still says their for me, for when I visit. Of course I never eat them when I visit, and grandpa knows I don't like them, but we all just go with "they're for Glitter". She's never even tried to get me to eat them. Now the red vines she buys, those really are for me when I visit.

Next time you visit, bring Grandma some Oreos because "you know she likes them so much".  ;D

Oh, I was thinking Glitter should just take the Fig Newtons with her when she leaves her grandparents' house because they're for her as she likes them so much!  >:D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: weeblewobble on January 25, 2014, 08:58:06 AM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I've only been a couple of times, but it was basically just like any other restaurant but with decent wings and more cleavage. No complaints from me. Plus it was really funny when our waitress turned out to be one of the kids my friend had counseled when he worked at a camp in high school.

The only time I went to hooters was as part of a group of a few people.  One of them decided to splurge and ordered the Dom Perignon and 8 wings plate for like $200 that was offered.  They brought it out, and he asked for some bleu cheese for the wings.  The waitress told him it would be an extra 25 cents.  He was peeved, and decided to make a point by having her get a manger to comp it (because she wouldn't/couldn't) last time I went there if the servers have that little amount of power to make the customers happy.

I get that Mr. Dom Perignon probably shouldn't have dragged the manager into an argument over 25 cents, but at the same time, if someone is spending $200 on wings, it seems a little short-sighted to haggle with someone over 1/800th of their bill and causing ill will. It seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: z_squared82 on January 25, 2014, 11:15:06 AM
So I have a friend who fails at stating what she wants. Less passive aggressive and more just passive.

Four of us friends went on a trip to a town near a popular park a few years ago. The one day we went into the park instead of shopping and drinking, we went on two easy hikes. The second was basically a gravel road with a slight slope. When you get to the end of the road, you can either turn around and go back or head up the mountain. Outdoorsy Friend asked what we would like to do. Friend Who Thinks She's Outdoorsy and I didn't have a preference, PA friend kept her mouth shut. So up the mountain we went. Well, it turns out, she had wanted to turn around and go back. She didn't talk to any of us for the rest of the day.

Being used to this, we ignored the fact that she was giving us the silent treatment. If she's not going to tell us she has a problem, we're not going to acknowledge her silent treatment.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: DoubleTrouble on January 25, 2014, 12:50:52 PM
But I remember many years ago, my DH's grandparents announced they'd went to Hooters for lunch. I was surprised and asked them what they thought of the place. Grandma said, "Well the food was okay...but I don't think we'll be going back."

I asked, "Why?"

Grandma thought about it and said, "It was too loud." ;D

LOL! Reminds me of the time my family went to Vegas when my brother & were little kids, so early 80's. We were walking the strip when we passed by a sign advertising "Nudes on Ice" i.e. nude ladies ice skating.

My brother wanted to know what it was and after my parents explained it to him asked, "but won't they get cold?"  ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Yvaine on January 25, 2014, 02:18:30 PM
But I remember many years ago, my DH's grandparents announced they'd went to Hooters for lunch. I was surprised and asked them what they thought of the place. Grandma said, "Well the food was okay...but I don't think we'll be going back."

I asked, "Why?"

Grandma thought about it and said, "It was too loud." ;D

LOL! Reminds me of the time my family went to Vegas when my brother & were little kids, so early 80's. We were walking the strip when we passed by a sign advertising "Nudes on Ice" i.e. nude ladies ice skating.

My brother wanted to know what it was and after my parents explained it to him asked, "but won't they get cold?"  ;D

I'm 36 and that would probably be my first remark too.  ;D But then when I heard of nude aerobics, my first thought was "Ow! Don't you at least want a sports bra?"  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Iris on January 25, 2014, 06:52:20 PM
But I remember many years ago, my DH's grandparents announced they'd went to Hooters for lunch. I was surprised and asked them what they thought of the place. Grandma said, "Well the food was okay...but I don't think we'll be going back."

I asked, "Why?"

Grandma thought about it and said, "It was too loud." ;D

LOL! Reminds me of the time my family went to Vegas when my brother & were little kids, so early 80's. We were walking the strip when we passed by a sign advertising "Nudes on Ice" i.e. nude ladies ice skating.

My brother wanted to know what it was and after my parents explained it to him asked, "but won't they get cold?"  ;D

I'm 36 and that would probably be my first remark too.  ;D But then when I heard of nude aerobics, my first thought was "Ow! Don't you at least want a sports bra?"  ;D ;D ;D ;D

There's nude aerobics? Ouchy!
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kimblee on January 25, 2014, 08:04:56 PM
DH has been to a Hooters and he said he found it rather sad.

I roll my eyes at the guys who say they go for the wings. I want to snark "And I bet you read naughty magazines for the articles too, don't you?"  ::)

The wings really aren't that special, not anything you couldn't get anywhere else, anyway.

OT, but your comment about the wings is true. They're done as well or better at lots of places now. Twenty years ago, it was the only place to get good buffalo wings.

Twenty years ago, I was offered a job there, twice in year's period of time. And I've never been more than an...ahem 'B' cup. So no hooters there.

I remember a few of us gals going out for a few drinks and some food and we decided on Hooters. The wings and grouper sandwiches were excellent (at the time) and how the waitresses were dressed didn't even register on our radar. You would think with hot waitresses walking around scantily dressed, that no one would pay any attention to us. But all the rest of the patrons were men and we got a lot of unwanted attention. Still can't figure that one out years later. I smile when I think about going when I was 9 months pregnant and about to pop and the waitstaff looking like they felt sorry for me when I waddled in. They were so sweet and took good care of us.

But I remember many years ago, my DH's grandparents announced they'd went to Hooters for lunch. I was surprised and asked them what they thought of the place. Grandma said, "Well the food was okay...but I don't think we'll be going back."

I asked, "Why?"

Grandma thought about it and said, "It was too loud." ;D

We don't eat out much anyway but we popped in the last time we vacationed in Florida during winter (we live in Northeast Ohio).  DH wanted some wings and I'm always up for wings and then, grinning, asked for me to pose with the waitress for a picture to send to his buddies up north with the message, 'guess where I am?' just to annoy them.  ::)

A friend told me about a visit he made to Hooters. An elderly man was sitting alone in a booth and when 'his' waitress came by she hugged the guy and kissed his cheek before taking his order. After he gave it he gave her bottom a quick tap and told her to hurry back.

A man at another table when nuclear on him, about how "dare" he objectify the waitress and just because they're a bunch of girls using their "hooters" to get money for men doesn't mean the old man could fondle them.

Just then the waitress popped out of the kitchen and called across the restaurant "Grandpa, did you want ranch?"
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: zyrs on January 26, 2014, 01:09:32 PM
A friend told me about a visit he made to Hooters. An elderly man was sitting alone in a booth and when 'his' waitress came by she hugged the guy and kissed his cheek before taking his order. After he gave it he gave her bottom a quick tap and told her to hurry back.

A man at another table when nuclear on him, about how "dare" he objectify the waitress and just because they're a bunch of girls using their "hooters" to get money for men doesn't mean the old man could fondle them.

Just then the waitress popped out of the kitchen and called across the restaurant "Grandpa, did you want ranch?"

If I had been her grandpa, it would have made me feel pretty good that some of the customers are watching out for the waitresses.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Kimblee on January 26, 2014, 02:19:51 PM
A friend told me about a visit he made to Hooters. An elderly man was sitting alone in a booth and when 'his' waitress came by she hugged the guy and kissed his cheek before taking his order. After he gave it he gave her bottom a quick tap and told her to hurry back.

A man at another table when nuclear on him, about how "dare" he objectify the waitress and just because they're a bunch of girls using their "hooters" to get money for men doesn't mean the old man could fondle them.

Just then the waitress popped out of the kitchen and called across the restaurant "Grandpa, did you want ranch?"

If I had been her grandpa, it would have made me feel pretty good that some of the customers are watching out for the waitresses.

From what I understand the "defender" was using pretty sexist terms himself.

Although, I know my grand-dad wouldn't have had trouble with me working in Hooters, nor would he mind someone defending me if they thought i was being harassed. So yeah, defending people is still good. (and at the only Hooters in the area, you get thrown out for harassing/insulting the waitresses. Their manager does not take kindly to it.)
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Cherry91 on January 26, 2014, 02:24:01 PM

From what I understand the "defender" was using pretty sexist terms himself.


Yeah, sounds like he was trying to "white knight" in the hopes of impressing one of the girls... and failed...
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: PeterM on January 26, 2014, 04:09:07 PM
We get a fair number of PA people at the library. I tend to either ignore their comments entirely or accept them completely at face value. In some ways it helps that I seem to be having minor hearing trouble. I really don't hear some comments that aren't directed straight at me, so I don't even have to lie about that.

We had one guy a month or so ago that I'm reminded of for some reason. I don't think I've mentioned him before. He'd been a recurring problem for awhile, but never enough to trigger an official reaction. He's a little slow mentally but plenty smart enough to use "Oh, I didn't know that" or "I forgot" in his favor. He's also very large and quite happy to loom over people until they do what he wants. He gets frustrated easily with the computers when they don't run as quickly as he thinks they should, or do exactly what he wants. I'm pretty sure his ideas of how computers should work come straight off of TV or out of the movies, so needless to say real computers seldom measure up.

One day he was in an especially bad mood with the computers because they were "too slow." No, they weren't, but try telling him that. He took to picking up the monitor and banging it against the desk hard enough that he actually knocked loose some wires underneath the computer desks. The librarian told him in no uncertain terms not to treat the computers that way, and he snarled "Fine!" and stomped into the main room. Then the librarian had to get down on her hands and knees to restore service to the two or three people whose computers this guy had messed up.

I didn't know any of this at the time. I just saw this guy stomping up to the desk in a bad mood. He flourished his library card at me and said, "I want to cancel my account! Just delete me from the system!" He pretty obviously expected to be fawned over and convinced to stay part of our wonderful library system.

I just said, "Okay," and used his card to call up his record and delete it. If he'd had books checked out or owed fines I couldn't have done it so easily, but he only ever used his card to access the internet, so it took me about ten seconds. I then threw his card into the trash and said, "You're all set. Your record has been deleted."

It took him a minute, but he came back with, "... Oh. Okay. I guess I'll just sign up again later if I want to."

"That sounds like a plan. Is there anything else I can help you with?"

No, there wasn't, and he walked out. We haven't seen him since. The librarian thanked me profusely.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Jocelyn on January 26, 2014, 04:46:06 PM
 
I get that Mr. Dom Perignon probably shouldn't have dragged the manager into an argument over 25 cents, but at the same time, if someone is spending $200 on wings, it seems a little short-sighted to haggle with someone over 1/800th of their bill and causing ill will. It seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I don't agree- either the waitress COULD comp it, and was being short-sighted in offending a customer who was paying $200 for his dinner (in which case her manager SHOULD know about it), or she wasn't able to comp it, in which case asking her manager to do so conveyed the customer's displeasure with the restaurant's policy.
I don't think it's PA to ask to speak to a manager if an employee cannot or will not provide a reasonable server, because what's the alternative? Not allowing the business to know why you were dissatisfied, and may not return?
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: FauxFoodist on January 26, 2014, 05:27:12 PM
 
I get that Mr. Dom Perignon probably shouldn't have dragged the manager into an argument over 25 cents, but at the same time, if someone is spending $200 on wings, it seems a little short-sighted to haggle with someone over 1/800th of their bill and causing ill will. It seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I don't agree- either the waitress COULD comp it, and was being short-sighted in offending a customer who was paying $200 for his dinner (in which case her manager SHOULD know about it), or she wasn't able to comp it, in which case asking her manager to do so conveyed the customer's displeasure with the restaurant's policy.
I don't think it's PA to ask to speak to a manager if an employee cannot or will not provide a reasonable server, because what's the alternative? Not allowing the business to know why you were dissatisfied, and may not return?

I don't think it was PA, either and didn't understand why the server didn't just go to her manager to see if it would be okay (and she could've told the guy, "Usually, it's an extra 25 cents but let me check with my manager if we could comp it this time).  I would've likely gone farther than he did and said to her, "I'm spending $200 for my meal, but you're telling me I have to spend an additional 25 cents for blue cheese dressing???  Could you please check with your manager on this?"  Hell, given the tip she could reasonably expect to get for good service on a $200 meal, you'd think it would've occurred to her pay the 25 cents herself for the blue cheese dressing for a tip that could've been $30 for her on his meal alone.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Sophia on January 26, 2014, 05:32:01 PM
 
I get that Mr. Dom Perignon probably shouldn't have dragged the manager into an argument over 25 cents, but at the same time, if someone is spending $200 on wings, it seems a little short-sighted to haggle with someone over 1/800th of their bill and causing ill will. It seems penny-wise and pound-foolish.

I don't agree- either the waitress COULD comp it, and was being short-sighted in offending a customer who was paying $200 for his dinner (in which case her manager SHOULD know about it), or she wasn't able to comp it, in which case asking her manager to do so conveyed the customer's displeasure with the restaurant's policy.
I don't think it's PA to ask to speak to a manager if an employee cannot or will not provide a reasonable server, because what's the alternative? Not allowing the business to know why you were dissatisfied, and may not return?

I don't think it was PA, either and didn't understand why the server didn't just go to her manager to see if it would be okay (and she could've told the guy, "Usually, it's an extra 25 cents but let me check with my manager if we could comp it this time).  I would've likely gone farther than he did and said to her, "I'm spending $200 for my meal, but you're telling me I have to spend an additional 25 cents for blue cheese dressing???  Could you please check with your manager on this?"  Hell, given the tip she could reasonably expect to get for good service on a $200 meal, you'd think it would've occurred to her pay the 25 cents herself for the blue cheese dressing for a tip that could've been $30 for her on his meal alone.

It has been rare, but when it has happened that a waiter in a restaurant said that I'd be charged for some petty thing like more dressing, it has come out of their tip.  I will usually use the white area of the slip to calculate the reduced tip. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: rose red on January 26, 2014, 06:01:11 PM
Maybe it's because I work in customer service and deal with this all day long, but I never feel I'm owed anything for free just because I'm spending a lot of money.  If sauce is 25 cents, then that's the restaurant's price and I will pay it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Mel the Redcap on January 26, 2014, 06:05:10 PM
It has been rare, but when it has happened that a waiter in a restaurant said that I'd be charged for some petty thing like more dressing, it has come out of their tip.  I will usually use the white area of the slip to calculate the reduced tip.

Given that enforcing payment for 'petty' things like that is almost always a management decision and not within the waiter's discretion, that seems kind of cruel. I read a couple of forums where people in service positions have posted about being stuck in the middle between inflexible management ("yes they have to pay, it comes out of our bottom line, if you come to me to ask if I'll comp it I'll do it so I don't look bad but then I'll take it out on you") and annoyed customers ("it's only 25 cents, why can't you give it to me for free, okay then your tip is going to suffer because I consider this to be horrible service").
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: JenJay on January 26, 2014, 06:15:19 PM
Maybe it's because I work in customer service and deal with this all day long, but I never feel I'm owed anything for free just because I'm spending a lot of money.  If sauce is 25 cents, then that's the restaurant's price and I will pay it.

I agree. If I think it's ridiculous to be charged for a little bit of extra sauce (and I do) I'll choose not to go back. I wouldn't take it out on the wait staff. They don't set the policy, they're just the ones stuck enforcing it.  :-\
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Tosca on January 26, 2014, 07:39:18 PM
My mother isn't PA, but early in her marriage to my father, she tried using hints.  My father is an Australian farmer and simply doesn't do hints.

Their farmhouse had an outside toilet.  As it was in the middle of nowhere, he didn't bother putting a door on it.  My mother objected to this, so he took a piece of tin that had been used to mix cement, and put that up with some wire hinges.

Mum had wanted a proper door, but tried to hint for one rather than ask outright.  She began saying that she was "tired" of looking at the cement on the inside of the tin when using the toilet.

Eager to oblige his new wife, Dad turned the piece of tin around so the cement was now on the outside.

Mum asked for (and got) a proper door, and learned not to hint for things with Dad.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Yvaine on January 26, 2014, 07:43:58 PM
But I remember many years ago, my DH's grandparents announced they'd went to Hooters for lunch. I was surprised and asked them what they thought of the place. Grandma said, "Well the food was okay...but I don't think we'll be going back."

I asked, "Why?"

Grandma thought about it and said, "It was too loud." ;D

LOL! Reminds me of the time my family went to Vegas when my brother & were little kids, so early 80's. We were walking the strip when we passed by a sign advertising "Nudes on Ice" i.e. nude ladies ice skating.

My brother wanted to know what it was and after my parents explained it to him asked, "but won't they get cold?"  ;D

I'm 36 and that would probably be my first remark too.  ;D But then when I heard of nude aerobics, my first thought was "Ow! Don't you at least want a sports bra?"  ;D ;D ;D ;D

There's nude aerobics? Ouchy!

Well, I'm pretty sure it's more a novelty/stunt than a serious exercise video, but it does exist.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Jocelyn on January 26, 2014, 08:33:59 PM
Maybe it's because I work in customer service and deal with this all day long, but I never feel I'm owed anything for free just because I'm spending a lot of money.  If sauce is 25 cents, then that's the restaurant's price and I will pay it.

I agree. If I think it's ridiculous to be charged for a little bit of extra sauce (and I do) I'll choose not to go back. I wouldn't take it out on the wait staff. They don't set the policy, they're just the ones stuck enforcing it.  :-\
I wouldn't penalize the server...but I think the management deserves to know if there's anything going on in their restaurant that would deter customers from returning.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: violinp on January 26, 2014, 09:48:46 PM
Maybe it's because I work in customer service and deal with this all day long, but I never feel I'm owed anything for free just because I'm spending a lot of money.  If sauce is 25 cents, then that's the restaurant's price and I will pay it.

I agree. If I think it's ridiculous to be charged for a little bit of extra sauce (and I do) I'll choose not to go back. I wouldn't take it out on the wait staff. They don't set the policy, they're just the ones stuck enforcing it.  :-\

POD. I've seen people get irate over having to pay 25 cents for a kiddie cup at the theater (a normal size drink can range from 4 - 5 bucks), and I just think, "Why? Why are you getting nasty at a green kid who's only following the rules?" If you don't want to patronize a store like that, fine. You're certainly free to take your business elsewhere. But, getting nasty about - SHOCKER - having to pay for a cup (with or without a drink in) at a business is facepalm - worthy, at best.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MariaE on January 26, 2014, 11:46:51 PM
Maybe it's because I work in customer service and deal with this all day long, but I never feel I'm owed anything for free just because I'm spending a lot of money.  If sauce is 25 cents, then that's the restaurant's price and I will pay it.

I don't work in customer service, but I agree. It seems awfully entitled to expect to be comped.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 27, 2014, 07:36:23 AM
Maybe it's because I work in customer service and deal with this all day long, but I never feel I'm owed anything for free just because I'm spending a lot of money.  If sauce is 25 cents, then that's the restaurant's price and I will pay it.

I don't work in customer service, but I agree. It seems awfully entitled to expect to be comped.

But as the waitress in that scenario, if I wasn't allowed to comp, I would have paid the quarter out of my own pocket, hoping that I would be getting a larger tip, considering the $200 order.  But by mentioning it, all I did was piss off the customer.

Sure, the tip may never materialize but I have a higher chance of getting it if I say, 'No problem!' than if I say, 'That will be an extra 25 cents.'
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 27, 2014, 08:02:03 AM

It has been rare, but when it has happened that a waiter in a restaurant said that I'd be charged for some petty thing like more dressing, it has come out of their tip.  I will usually use the white area of the slip to calculate the reduced tip.

I have to disagree; the server doesn't set the policy, management or corporate does, and its entirely possible that a server could lose their job over something like this, even for such a small amount.

 I'd either decline whatever it was I was asking for that I'd be charged for, or pay it. I don't know that I'd even bring it up with management or corporate. 25 cents isn't enough to make it worth my while.

   
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: esteban on January 27, 2014, 08:03:21 AM
In the wing scenario (or any sauce scenario in general) if the extra charge for sauce is on the menu (it wasn't at hooters at this time) I will pay it and not argue, but if there is no extra charge on the menu, and it is something that is expected to come with the meal (bleu cheese with wings, catsup with burgers/fries etc..) then I can and will expect it to be provided at no additional charge.  If you choose not to do this as an establishment I will complain to the waitstaff and manager, and I will stop going to your business in all likelihood.  Will I take it out of the tip, yeah probably.  Is that fair to the waitstaff? Maybe not, but I can't take it out of the managers check, and this is a way for me to show displeasure.

Somewhat related story with a very different result, McDonalds many years ago added a charge for sauces/additional sauces depending on what you ordered.  I like my cheap high in fat fries with bar-b-que sauce, so I always asked for it.  One of the first days the extra charge thing went into effect I placed my order, and the poor kid behind the counter couldn't figure out how to add the 25 cents.  So he called his manager over, who also couldn't, and told me that they have not yet had someone willing to pay the charge, so could I please refuse to pay it so they could comp me the sauce.  I pulled myself up to my most indignant height and with a large smile on my face (in an empty restaurant so it wasn't wasting anyone elses time or effort) stated that I have never paid for extra sauce and wasn't going to now.  The Manager said "I understand your frustration sir and I'll take care of that for you today."  We all laughed.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 27, 2014, 08:11:57 AM
In the wing scenario (or any sauce scenario in general) if the extra charge for sauce is on the menu (it wasn't at hooters at this time) I will pay it and not argue, but if there is no extra charge on the menu, and it is something that is expected to come with the meal (bleu cheese with wings, catsup with burgers/fries etc..) then I can and will expect it to be provided at no additional charge.  If you choose not to do this as an establishment I will complain to the waitstaff and manager, and I will stop going to your business in all likelihood.  Will I take it out of the tip, yeah probably.  Is that fair to the waitstaff? Maybe not, but I can't take it out of the managers check, and this is a way for me to show displeasure.

 

I know in the local place I go to, depending on how many you order, you get so much blue dressing etc. per order, and they state up front, any extra will be x charge. So while it does come with your meal, if you want more, you'll pay for it.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: MariaE on January 27, 2014, 08:12:11 AM
Maybe it's because I work in customer service and deal with this all day long, but I never feel I'm owed anything for free just because I'm spending a lot of money.  If sauce is 25 cents, then that's the restaurant's price and I will pay it.

I don't work in customer service, but I agree. It seems awfully entitled to expect to be comped.

But as the waitress in that scenario, if I wasn't allowed to comp, I would have paid the quarter out of my own pocket, hoping that I would be getting a larger tip, considering the $200 order.  But by mentioning it, all I did was piss off the customer.

Sure, the tip may never materialize but I have a higher chance of getting it if I say, 'No problem!' than if I say, 'That will be an extra 25 cents.'

Oh, absolutely. But that is your decision as a server. I find it entitled of a customer to say "I expect to get this for free because I'm such a special customer, and it will influence the tip I give you if you can't or won't do that".

As a server, I'd probably do the same as you. As a customer, I'd be ashamed to complain about it. Sounds too SSy for me.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 27, 2014, 08:19:10 AM
I'd never spend that much on a meal out, in all likelihood, but if I was the customer, spending that kind of money, and the server told me it would be an extra 25 cents, I'd probably come out with, 'Seriously?  You want to charge me an extra 25 cents when I'm spending $200?  Fine.  Bring me the sauce I want.'  I wouldn't demand to be comped but I would expect it, in that case.  I wouldn't make (any more of) a fuss and I'd pay the extra charge, without any further comment but it would affect whether or not I'd come back to that restaurant again.  Especially if the charge was not listed on the menu.
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: VorFemme on January 27, 2014, 08:29:43 AM
I went out to a steak place last week (group party - ladies only). Background - party room set up for 40; some 35 or 36 had phoned in a "yes" for their RSVP; and two extra place settings (that I saw) were added when extra people started showing up.  It was not hosted - the person setting things up had made the reservation ONLY, we ordered off the menu, and  I ordered my meal with onion rings.  In Texas (well, the American South & Southwest), you expect to find tomato catsup or some other sauce for onion rings on the table or in a small container on the plate - even if it is little plastic pouches to be torn open at a fast food place.

They looked fabulous - large slices of real onion, separated into rings, dipped in seasoned batter, and fried just right...but....no catsup on the plate.  No catsup on the table (bottle, jar, ramekin, carafe, or plastic pouches in a container).

I asked the waiter at least three times for catsup.  Finally walked out of the private party room to the bar to ask for catsup.  I found out that they don't have catsup bottles in the dining areas, they serve it in ramekins from the kitchen, the bar tender explained this like bottles of catsup were lower class service...well, maybe it is, but you have some catsup while your onion rings are HOT!

Finally got ONE small metal container, about half full, dropped off by one of the two waiters assigned to our group.  It was enough for 2/3 of the onion rings, if I skimped on the catsup.  Half if I'd dipped them "properly".  They were still "warm" but no longer hot.  I don't usually plan to eat my onion rings as dessert - but without catsup...I waited to eat them.

Never got a refill on the catsup.  Ate the last two  They were handling the tea & water by dropping off wine carafes with water in them and keeping the carafes replaced,, as needed. 

Still tipped $4 on a $14 bill (drank water so I could sleep before 2 am - no caffeine with my evening meal) - but had been thinking of $5 (because I had a $5 bill on me).  Instead I added the $4 to the tip line and charged it.  Not a huge difference.  But I'm still wondering why I was brought a plate with onion rings on it that did not have a small container of catsup already on the danged plate?

And remembering why I don't go to this place for lunch on my own, just when I'm going to a party with the ladies in the group. 
Title: Re: Giving PA people what they "want" (Stories!) UPDATE P27
Post by: alkira6 on January 27, 2014, 09:36:25 AM
I went out to a steak place last week