Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: Devix on December 03, 2012, 03:12:45 PM

Title: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Devix on December 03, 2012, 03:12:45 PM
There is a situation that has come up and the way that I want to deal with it certainly isn’t e-hell approved so I’m putting this out here to hopefully get some much more appropriate advice.

About a month ago, we had a new neighbor (Peeping Tammy) move in to the apartment next to us.  I’ve had an insane schedule this past month so my husband was actually the first to meet her and I didn’t have a run in with her until two weeks ago and our first meeting left a bad taste in my mouth.  Tammy is an older woman and from what DH said he’d helped her with some groceries a couple of times and has held the elevator for her so they’ve made some idle chit chat.  I didn’t really think anything of it since we have a few older people in our building and DH goes out of his way to help most of them and they’re all really wonderful. 

Well one Friday night, DH was taking a shower and there was a knock on our door.  I got up and opened it to find a strange woman wearing something very inappropriate and holding a plate of cookies.  The woman was as shocked to see me as I was her because as soon as she saw me the smile slipped from her face and she started interrogating me.

Strange Lady:  Who are you?
Me:  You knocked on my door.  Who are you?
Lady:  I’m Tammy, the new neighbor in [apartment #].  Are you [DH] sister?
Me:  No…I’m his wife.  It’s nice to meet you Tammy.
Lady:  Oh, I didn’t know he had a wife.  (A natural assumption considering we hardly ever wear our wedding rings).   My, aren’t you a tiny young thing?
Me:  Um…  Can I help you with something?
Lady:  Oh, I just brought these cookies to thank [DH] for helping me with my groceries.

Now this little meeting left me scratching my head but it wouldn’t have bothered me if it wasn’t for the fact that she keeps trying to ‘bump’ into DH.  She’s knocked on our door and asked DH if he could help her install her entertainment system and he said that I would probably be happy to help since I’ve set up all of our systems and he’s useless with electronics.  She said never mind and went back home but she’s always popping up with some request specifically for him.

Fine, she has a crush on him that’s no big deal.  Plenty of women have had a crush on DH and it doesn’t really bother me.  What does bother me is when she starts pestering him while he’s working out.

DH is an exercise fiend and he has his gym set up on our balcony.  DH likes working out in the morning or even very late at night after a long day and he is very into weight lifting.  What really irked me is when DH was lifting some pretty heavy weights, Tammy went out in her balcony in a robe and started “Yoo Hoo”-ing at him trying to get his attention while he was trying to focus.  These are heavy weights and you don’t distract someone while they’re lifting because it could lead to them really hurting themselves.  Every time DH goes out to exercise Tammy will be out there trying to strike up a conversation or even cat calling and wolf whistling at him.  No small feat considering out balconies are about 30 feet away.

 I wasn’t sure why this bothered me so much but I realized that if the genders were switched and it was an older man basically harassing a young woman while she was trying to exercise I would be absolutely furious.  DH really doesn’t like the interruptions and he’s trying to ignore her but she isn’t taking the hint.  Is there an e-hell approved way to tell her to back off and that her actions aren’t okay?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: NyaChan on December 03, 2012, 03:21:29 PM
  What was she wearing when you answered the door?  My mind is speculating wildly lol

I think that this might be something that your husband could handle through his own behavior.  I'm not big on the mark your territory approach, but if you guys are cool with it... if he clings to you a bit more when she is around or makes sure that any discussion she has to try to get him alone ends up involving you, it might help curb her behavior.  Otherwise, a quick conversation would probably help -  "Tammy, I'm working out right now and can't talk." and then repeat.  When she comes asking him for help, "I am not going to be able to help you.  Good luck." and then end the conversation. 

ETA:  If she wasn't your neighbor who has likely just started a new lease, I would advocate for your husband telling her that she is making him uncomfortable and wants her to back off.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: jedikaiti on December 03, 2012, 03:22:55 PM
Sexual harassment is sexual harassment no matter what gender the harasser & harassee are.

DH needs to talk to her bluntly, directly, but politely, and tell her that this is NOT OK. He should tell her that he is NOT interested in her, and that he expects to be able to exercise in peace when he is out on your balcony and that he does not appreciate her harassment of him during his workout. If she continues to ask for favors, he can just say NO.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Wittyone on December 03, 2012, 03:24:19 PM
I came to say the same thing Jedikaiti said.  He needs to cut her off, bluntly if needed.

Can you put up some kind of screen on your balcony that would block her view?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: O'Dell on December 03, 2012, 03:30:23 PM
  What was she wearing when you answered the door?  My mind is speculating wildly lol

I think that this might be something that your husband could handle through his own behavior.  I'm not big on the mark your territory approach, but if you guys are cool with it... if he clings to you a bit more when she is around or makes sure that any discussion she has to try to get him alone ends up involving you, it might help curb her behavior.  Otherwise, a quick conversation would probably help -  "Tammy, I'm working out right now and can't talk." and then repeat.  When she comes asking him for help, "I am not going to be able to help you.  Good luck." and then end the conversation. 

ETA:  If she wasn't your neighbor who has likely just started a new lease, I would advocate for your husband telling her that she is making him uncomfortable and wants her to back off.

I agree with this approach. If it doesn't work, then your husband can then ramp it up to the level that jedikaiti and Wittyone are advocating.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: amylouky on December 03, 2012, 03:30:54 PM
I came to say the same thing Jedikaiti said.  He needs to cut her off, bluntly if needed.

Can you put up some kind of screen on your balcony that would block her view?

That's a great idea, and would definitely send the message that her attention/admiration is not appreciated.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: WillyNilly on December 03, 2012, 03:37:40 PM
I think your DH should say something directly to her.  But I also think he should let the building management know about her calling out to him while he's on the balcony.  Presumably there is some sort of line in your contracts about noise, and about allowing others the right to enjoy their space, etc.  I can't imagine the other neighbors like having to hear her call out across the balconies either.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: artk2002 on December 03, 2012, 03:39:34 PM
Your DH *must* put Tammy in her place, ASAP. Bluntly. "Tammy, your attention to me is inappropriate. Stop. Don't *ever* call out to me when I'm working out and if you aren't willing to accept help from my wife and only from me, then don't ask for help."
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: weeblewobble on December 03, 2012, 04:32:10 PM
Your DH *must* put Tammy in her place, ASAP. Bluntly. "Tammy, your attention to me is inappropriate. Stop. Don't *ever* call out to me when I'm working out and if you aren't willing to accept help from my wife and only from me, then don't ask for help."

This.  We've told women in this situation that they have to speak up for themselves to curb the behavior, and it's the same for men.  Otherwise Tammy won't believe that the reluctance comes from your DH, but from you or at least a desire to keep you off of his back.  You wouldn't believe what people who don't hear "no" will tell themselves to rationalize their behavior.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: CaptainObvious on December 03, 2012, 04:59:10 PM
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 03, 2012, 05:07:28 PM
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where Dervix's husband is unwilling to say anything.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: MrsJWine on December 03, 2012, 05:14:06 PM
That must be a huge balcony for an apartment. Can he move the weights inside? I'm sure she won't stop trying to flirt with him just because of that, but in the meantime, it will give him some peace.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 03, 2012, 05:15:20 PM
That must be a huge balcony for an apartment. Can he move the weights inside? I'm sure she won't stop trying to flirt with him just because of that, but in the meantime, it will give him some peace.

Why should he have to do that? He has a right to live his life as he chooses. To me, telling him to change his life would be the same as telling a woman who doesn't like to be whistled at when she walks down the street to not walk down the street.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: MrsJWine on December 03, 2012, 05:16:27 PM
That must be a huge balcony for an apartment. Can he move the weights inside? I'm sure she won't stop trying to flirt with him just because of that, but in the meantime, it will give him some peace.

Why should he have to do that? He has a right to live his life as he chooses.

Did you read my whole post? I didn't mean it as a permanent solution. But until he gets her off his back, I'm sure he would like to have workout routines that aren't continually interrupted by her come-ons.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 03, 2012, 05:17:23 PM
That must be a huge balcony for an apartment. Can he move the weights inside? I'm sure she won't stop trying to flirt with him just because of that, but in the meantime, it will give him some peace.

Yes, I read your whole post. I even quoted the whole post.

Why should he have to do that? He has a right to live his life as he chooses.

Did you read my whole post? I didn't mean it as a permanent solution. But until he gets her off his back, I'm sure he would like to have workout routines that aren't continually interrupted by her come-ons.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: CaptainObvious on December 03, 2012, 05:18:47 PM
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where Dervix's husband is unwilling to say anything.

The OP said he is just ignoring her, and from what she wrote, it has happened several times.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Aeris on December 03, 2012, 05:20:12 PM
That must be a huge balcony for an apartment. Can he move the weights inside? I'm sure she won't stop trying to flirt with him just because of that, but in the meantime, it will give him some peace.

Why should he have to do that? He has a right to live his life as he chooses.

Did you read my whole post? I didn't mean it as a permanent solution. But until he gets her off his back, I'm sure he would like to have workout routines that aren't continually interrupted by her come-ons.

I'm just surprised you can leave all that exercise equipment permanently on the balcony. I would have assumed that rain/heat/cold/etc would be damaging over time.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 03, 2012, 05:20:46 PM
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where Dervix's husband is unwilling to say anything.

The OP said he is just ignoring her, and from what she wrote, it has happened several times.

Ignoring someone is not the same as not being willing to say something.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: CaptainObvious on December 03, 2012, 05:23:38 PM
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where Dervix's husband is unwilling to say anything.

The OP said he is just ignoring her, and from what she wrote, it has happened several times.

Ignoring someone is not the same as not being willing to say something.

He hasn't said anything the several times it has happened, but I will re-phrase it to "so far he hasn't been willing to speak up".
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 03, 2012, 05:24:48 PM
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where Dervix's husband is unwilling to say anything.

The OP said he is just ignoring her, and from what she wrote, it has happened several times.

Ignoring someone is not the same as not being willing to say something.

He hasn't said anything the several times it has happened, but I will re-phrase it to "so far he hasn't been willing to speak up".

Where does she say that he isn't willing to speak up?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Yvaine on December 03, 2012, 05:25:28 PM
That must be a huge balcony for an apartment. Can he move the weights inside? I'm sure she won't stop trying to flirt with him just because of that, but in the meantime, it will give him some peace.

Why should he have to do that? He has a right to live his life as he chooses.

Did you read my whole post? I didn't mean it as a permanent solution. But until he gets her off his back, I'm sure he would like to have workout routines that aren't continually interrupted by her come-ons.

I'm just surprised you can leave all that exercise equipment permanently on the balcony. I would have assumed that rain/heat/cold/etc would be damaging over time.

I also worry about the weight of it! I've seen a lot of balconies that wouldn't hold that much safely.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: CaptainObvious on December 03, 2012, 05:26:16 PM
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?

Maybe I missed it but I don't see where Dervix's husband is unwilling to say anything.

The OP said he is just ignoring her, and from what she wrote, it has happened several times.

Ignoring someone is not the same as not being willing to say something.

He hasn't said anything the several times it has happened, but I will re-phrase it to "so far he hasn't been willing to speak up".

Where does she say that he isn't willing to speak up?

Please stop, I'm not going to go round and round about this. I explained already, you don't have to agree with me.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Devix on December 03, 2012, 05:51:16 PM
  What was she wearing when you answered the door?  My mind is speculating wildly lol


Think very tight pink dress 3 sizes too small with a black bustier on top that practically pushed her chest up to her chin.  She also had on a pair of fishnets and when she walked away the bottom of the dress kept riding up so I got an unfortunate view of what she was wearing under.  A perfectly fine outfit for a club but kind of a weird choice when you're knocking on your neighbors door at 9 o'clock at night.


Quote from: artk2002
Your DH *must* put Tammy in her place, ASAP. Bluntly. "Tammy, your attention to me is inappropriate. Stop. Don't *ever* call out to me when I'm working out and if you aren't willing to accept help from my wife and only from me, then don't ask for help."

I actually really like this.  It's direct and to the point and makes sure she understands that it is a command and not a request.

Quote from: CaptainObvious
If your Husband isn't willing to say something to her, then what does he expect to happen?

He's willing to say quite a lot to her but what he is willing to say is neither nice or e-hell approved and I feel like it would just allow her to paint herself as the victim.  DH takes his workouts very seriously and after she's interrupted him for the tenth time he'll stalk inside and start muttering angry Russian curses so for right now I'd rather he ignore her than just go off on her.


Quote from: MrsJWine
That must be a huge balcony for an apartment. Can he move the weights inside? I'm sure she won't stop trying to flirt with him just because of that, but in the meantime, it will give him some peace.

The balcony is pretty huge and it has enough room for his weights, punching bag, pull up bar and a few other machines they don't have in the apartment gym.  There really isn't any room in our apartment for him to store all this stuff and he likes the fresh air while I like not having to hear him grunt or have his sweat everywhere.

Quote from: Aeris
I'm just surprised you can leave all that exercise equipment permanently on the balcony. I would have assumed that rain/heat/cold/etc would be damaging over time.

He has tarps he throws over everything and the balcony has a screen we can put over it to keep it insulated.  The weight on the balcony isn't a problem since its a very newly built high rise and we already have the building manager come and check everything out before we put the gym out there so there are no safety concerns. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: weeblewobble on December 03, 2012, 06:06:46 PM
  What was she wearing when you answered the door?  My mind is speculating wildly lol


Think very tight pink dress 3 sizes too small with a black bustier on top that practically pushed her chest up to her chin.  She also had on a pair of fishnets and when she walked away the bottom of the dress kept riding up so I got an unfortunate view of what she was wearing under.  A perfectly fine outfit for a club but kind of a weird choice when you're knocking on your neighbors door at 9 o'clock at night.



(Blink, blink.  Jaw drops open.  Blink.)

I retract my previous advice. I think you need to drop all pretense of being unaware of what this woman is doing.  Give her the cut direct.  She is no longer there.  She is invisible to you.  And maybe your husband should continue to ignore her if he is unwilling to address the situation.  But this also means, not giving her "little attentions" either.  He should not chat to her in the lobby, hold the elevator for her or help with her groceries.  If she speaks to him, no eye contact, no verbal responses.  She is a sheet of clear glass, you look right through her.  She will probably escalate her behavior to recapture his attentions, and you both need to continue to ignore her.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 03, 2012, 06:13:04 PM
Think very tight pink dress 3 sizes too small with a black bustier on top that practically pushed her chest up to her chin.  She also had on a pair of fishnets and when she walked away the bottom of the dress kept riding up so I got an unfortunate view of what she was wearing under.  A perfectly fine outfit for a club but kind of a weird choice when you're knocking on your neighbors door at 9 o'clock at night.

Wow! I bet that smile slipped right off her face as soon as she saw it was you.

I'd continue to ignore her. Perhaps I'd go to the management if she continues to harass your husband on ya'll's balcony.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: jedikaiti on December 03, 2012, 06:17:43 PM
  What was she wearing when you answered the door?  My mind is speculating wildly lol


Think very tight pink dress 3 sizes too small with a black bustier on top that practically pushed her chest up to her chin.  She also had on a pair of fishnets and when she walked away the bottom of the dress kept riding up so I got an unfortunate view of what she was wearing under.  A perfectly fine outfit for a club but kind of a weird choice when you're knocking on your neighbors door at 9 o'clock at night.


Quote from: artk2002
Your DH *must* put Tammy in her place, ASAP. Bluntly. "Tammy, your attention to me is inappropriate. Stop. Don't *ever* call out to me when I'm working out. I do not appreciate being harassed with catcalls and wolf whistles. and if you aren't willing to accept help from my wife and only from meI will not be offering you any further assistance without my wife present. If you don't want to accept assistance from both of us, then don't ask for help."

I actually really like this.  It's direct and to the point and makes sure she understands that it is a command and not a request.

Oh my goodness I need brain bleach!

I think your DH needs to go knock on her door when he is feeling calm and when she answers, give her the order to leave him alone. I made some modifications for your consideration.

If that doesn't work, I think weeblewobble is right on with the silent treatment and LeveeWoman has a good idea in chatting with management.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: JenJay on December 03, 2012, 06:30:57 PM
I'd be pissed. This woman is disrespecting your marriage and your husband by even thinking that he might be interested in... whatever it is she's offering. lol

It sounds like your DH is more than happy to put her in her place so I vote you give him the green light and some helpful phrases he can use to get the point across clearly without creating any more tension, since you are neighbors (At least for now. If she doesn't get it and back off then he'll need to do whatever he needs to do.). He doesn't have to be mean, he can say things like (when he's working out) "I'm busy, this isn't a good time to talk." and then ignore any further attempt she makes to engage him. If she shows up at the door to offer up her cookies again ;D he could say "I'm sorry but this is really inappropriate. I'm happily married and intend to keep it that way. Have a good night." If she tries to chat him up in the lobby, hall, elevator, etc. he can be polite but cool and end the conversation as quickly as possible. If all else fails I imagine "I was kind to you because we're neighbors but I can see that you're interested in more. I'm not. Please leave me alone." ought to suffice.  ;)
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: cheyne on December 03, 2012, 06:38:25 PM
Quote
Think very tight pink dress 3 sizes too small with a black bustier on top that practically pushed her chest up to her chin.  She also had on a pair of fishnets and when she walked away the bottom of the dress kept riding up so I got an unfortunate view of what she was wearing under.  A perfectly fine outfit for a club but kind of a weird choice when you're knocking on your neighbors door at 9 o'clock at night.

Call me a bad person but I laughed out loud when I read this.  You say "older" woman so I am not sure what you mean, but I am 50 and I would spork myself in the throat before I wore an outfit like this.

I would have laughed when I saw her at my door.  No advice to offer, PP's have much better phrases than I do.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Sanity Lost on December 03, 2012, 06:45:00 PM
Start addressing her as Mrs. Robinson? no?  ;D
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: JenJay on December 03, 2012, 06:46:57 PM
Quote
Think very tight pink dress 3 sizes too small with a black bustier on top that practically pushed her chest up to her chin.  She also had on a pair of fishnets and when she walked away the bottom of the dress kept riding up so I got an unfortunate view of what she was wearing under.  A perfectly fine outfit for a club but kind of a weird choice when you're knocking on your neighbors door at 9 o'clock at night.

Call me a bad person but I laughed out loud when I read this.  You say "older" woman so I am not sure what you mean, but I am 50 and I would spork myself in the throat before I wore an outfit like this.

I would have laughed when I saw her at my door.  No advice to offer, PP's have much better phrases than I do.

Per the bolded - I'm 37 and I would, too. To each her own I guess.  ;D
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: rose red on December 03, 2012, 06:51:56 PM
When your DH is working out, I don't see a problem with him yelling back that "I need to concentrate and your catcalls are putting me in danger.  I also don't appreciate the intent, so stop it."
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: BarensMom on December 03, 2012, 07:11:11 PM
Perhaps you should stand or sit on the balcony when he works out and watch him adoringly while he ignores her.  He could also play music just loud enough to block her catcalls.  Of course, the best thing is for him to just shut her down the next time she tries to "vamp" him.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: CaptainObvious on December 03, 2012, 07:21:15 PM







Perhaps you should stand or sit on the balcony when he works out and watch him adoringly while he ignores her.  He could also play music just loud enough to block her catcalls.  Of course, the best thing is for him to just shut her down the next time she tries to "vamp" him.


Doesn't your Husband use a "spotter" while he lifts? I didn't think most people lifted heavy weights alone?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: kherbert05 on December 03, 2012, 07:30:17 PM
If you are allowed to screen in the balcony to insulate it - can you screen off her side of the balcony.


Your DH needs to tell her 1 time to back off. After that document, but ignore. Inform your landlord/property manager what is going on.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 03, 2012, 07:34:47 PM
Anyone remember Katey Sagal's character in Edward Scissorhands, the desperate housewife who had the hots for Edward? This woman reminds me of her for some reason.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx4ktvTA5A1qe0deco1_500.jpg
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Miss March on December 03, 2012, 07:48:48 PM
Actually, that actress's name is Kathy Baker. She made it big on "Picket Fences."
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Calypso on December 03, 2012, 07:50:27 PM
 I disagree with the advice re being very blunt and very aggressive with how you deal with Crazy Lady, because she lives right next door, is probably in the throes of some hormonal irrationality (depends on what you mean by "older") and if she decides she's ticked at y'all, could make your life a living heck. I envision constant complaints to the landlord re the "noise" you're making, or whatever. Do not make an enemy of this woman. You don't have to take her nonsense, but you don't have to go nuclear on her, either. The OP clearly doesn't feel threatened (rightfully not) and to treat her in any way as a "romantic threat" will just reinforce her fantasy.

Really, DH has all the power here. She probably interprets his ignoring her during his workout as tacit acceptance of being watched. The next time she wolf whistles him, he should put the weight down, walk to the point of the balcony closest to her, and say "Mrs. Crazylady" (do NOT use her first name, if he knows it), "if you interrupt my concentration during my workout, I could easily mishandle a weight and hurt myself. I don't like to be watched when I'm working out. Please do not do so." If that doesn't work, building a barrier (or putting up a makeshift one) will solve the problem. How about a stand with a bunch of plants on it, if you like that sort of thing?

Why confront her crush directly? You'll make her feel ashamed, and that will become anger and defensiveness and ugliness before you can blink. Polite, cool, respectful behavior (as one should respect one's elders  >:D ) will give her a chance to control herself and pretend maybe nobody noticed or remembered her lapses from normal behavior. She could (eventually) become a good neighbor.

If your DH has a Russian accent, could you get him to use one that's less sexy? (only kidding) ::)
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 03, 2012, 08:05:54 PM
Actually, that actress's name is Kathy Baker. She made it big on "Picket Fences."

I thought she was better known for playing Peg Bundy in "Married, With Children"?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Devix on December 03, 2012, 08:07:56 PM
Yeah, it was kind of a hysterical sight when I opened the door.  She was all dressed up and I was in my pajama pants and a t-shirt so the contrast was quite stark.  I'll admit that I did laugh after I closed the door though I made sure to remain as stoic as possible when she could see/hear me. 

Quote
Call me a bad person but I laughed out loud when I read this.  You say "older" woman so I am not sure what you mean, but I am 50 and I would spork myself in the throat before I wore an outfit like this.

By my guess she's probably in her late 40's.  Heck, I wouldn't wear anything quite that short and tight and I'm in my 20's.  At the very least I do have to admire her self confidence even if I don't admire much else.


Quote
Perhaps you should stand or sit on the balcony when he works out and watch him adoringly while he ignores her.  He could also play music just loud enough to block her catcalls.  Of course, the best thing is for him to just shut her down the next time she tries to "vamp" him.

It makes me miss our old neighbor.  She was in her 80's and a spunkier woman I have never met.  She'd enjoy DH's workouts quite a bit and she and I would have some tea every few weeks where she'd be happy to share her appreciation.  Of course DH never minded it because the old neighbor would just wave hello in the morning and be on her merry way.  DH has his headphones on but her voice is shrill and he doesn't like playing his music so loud that he's going deaf.

Quote
If you are allowed to screen in the balcony to insulate it - can you screen off her side of the balcony.

The screen starts on the other side and would need to be wrapped around the entire balcony to screen off her side.  It's not a bad idea but when we have the screen up and he's working out it tends to get a bit...stinky in there and he can get overheated.

Quote
Doesn't your Husband use a "spotter" while he lifts? I didn't think most people lifted heavy weights alone?

He does when he's doing bodybuilding or working with 100+ lbs weights and that is usually when he's at an actual gym.  The ones we have at home aren't that heavy but they're still heavy enough that he could hurt himself if he's startled and lurches and given just how shrill and loud Tammy's voice is when she's calling out she can easily startle people. 

Quote
I envision constant complaints to the landlord re the "noise" you're making, or whatever

We own, she doesn't so there is very little a landlord could do.  I do have a shoji screen though so maybe I'll just put that up on the balcony and block out her view.  Actually, I'm more tempted to just have DH put down the weights, walk over to the balcony and just glare at her until she goes away.  The man has a very piercing glare and I've seen quite a few people squirm under it. 

Oh no, I'm with you.  The Russian accent can be both scary but very attractive at the same time.


Right now I think I may just advise DH to be direct in telling her that he does not appreciate the attention and from then on to be as cold (yet polite) as possible.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: doodlemor on December 03, 2012, 08:10:06 PM
I disagree with the advice re being very blunt and very aggressive with how you deal with Crazy Lady, because she lives right next door, is probably in the throes of some hormonal irrationality (depends on what you mean by "older") and if she decides she's ticked at y'all, could make your life a living heck. I envision constant complaints to the landlord re the "noise" you're making, or whatever. Do not make an enemy of this woman. You don't have to take her nonsense, but you don't have to go nuclear on her, either. The OP clearly doesn't feel threatened (rightfully not) and to treat her in any way as a "romantic threat" will just reinforce her fantasy.

Really, DH has all the power here. She probably interprets his ignoring her during his workout as tacit acceptance of being watched. The next time she wolf whistles him, he should put the weight down, walk to the point of the balcony closest to her, and say "Mrs. Crazylady" (do NOT use her first name, if he knows it), "if you interrupt my concentration during my workout, I could easily mishandle a weight and hurt myself. I don't like to be watched when I'm working out. Please do not do so." If that doesn't work, building a barrier (or putting up a makeshift one) will solve the problem. How about a stand with a bunch of plants on it, if you like that sort of thing?

Why confront her crush directly? You'll make her feel ashamed, and that will become anger and defensiveness and ugliness before you can blink. Polite, cool, respectful behavior (as one should respect one's elders  >:D ) will give her a chance to control herself and pretend maybe nobody noticed or remembered her lapses from normal behavior. She could (eventually) become a good neighbor.

If your DH has a Russian accent, could you get him to use one that's less sexy? (only kidding) ::)

I like this advice.  Why escalate unless it is truly necessary?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Harriet Jones on December 03, 2012, 08:17:15 PM
Actually, that actress's name is Kathy Baker. She made it big on "Picket Fences."

I thought she was better known for playing Peg Bundy in "Married, With Children"?

Katey Sagal was in Married with Children, Kathy Baker was in Edward Scissorhands
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: norrina on December 03, 2012, 09:09:17 PM
Quote
Think very tight pink dress 3 sizes too small with a black bustier on top that practically pushed her chest up to her chin.  She also had on a pair of fishnets and when she walked away the bottom of the dress kept riding up so I got an unfortunate view of what she was wearing under.  A perfectly fine outfit for a club but kind of a weird choice when you're knocking on your neighbors door at 9 o'clock at night.

Call me a bad person but I laughed out loud when I read this.  You say "older" woman so I am not sure what you mean, but I am 50 and I would spork myself in the throat before I wore an outfit like this.

I would have laughed when I saw her at my door.  No advice to offer, PP's have much better phrases than I do.

Per the bolded - I'm 37 and I would, too. To each her own I guess.  ;D

I'm a 34 y.o. rollergirl. Short and tight tends to describe our uniform, and I still only wear a skirt so short my heiney is in danger of being on display for derby or a night on the town, and with bootie shorts or bike shorts, and dance tights under my fishnets.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: sunnygirl on December 03, 2012, 09:34:27 PM
I think ignoring the crush part and just focusing on the distraction/weights part is a good idea - maybe he could write her a polite note explaining that her trying to greet him/gain his attention during his workouts is distracting and potentially dangerous. He could do it in person but a note might be better as he might not want to give her an opening to start a conversation or encourage her.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Raintree on December 04, 2012, 04:05:59 AM
Seriously? I'm 47 and still ok-looking, but I cannot even fathom going to some hot 20-something neighbour's door at 9 PM wearing a tight, short pink dress under the pretense of delivering cookies. What an embarrassment!! And then after meeting his wife, going out and cat-calling and wolf-whistling from the balcony as he works out. She sounds a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

All I can suggest is being blunt, "Please don't call out to me or watch me while I'm working out." Ignore her in the elevator. "I don't think so" to her requests for help. I have to say that as a woman, if I had a male neighbour doing this to me, I'd probably be driven indoors to work out (it's not right, but I'd never feel comfortable working out with some creep staring at me).
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: WillyNilly on December 04, 2012, 08:20:48 AM
Doesn't your Husband use a "spotter" while he lifts? I didn't think most people lifted heavy weights alone?

My DH weight lifts without a spotter.  To keep it safer when bench pressing he uses two individual weights instead of one long barbell, so there is no chance of the weight falling and pinning him under the bar, if it falls it just damages the floor, at worst his wrist.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: 25wishes on December 04, 2012, 08:36:03 AM
how about mp3 headphones while he is working out? If it persists, I might consider videoing her from the balcony.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: BarensMom on December 04, 2012, 09:10:03 AM
I think moving your shoji screen to her side is a very good idea.  To soften the sound of her voice, DH could wear earplugs.  Otherwise, he could say, "Please don't distract me during my workouts - I could injure myself.  My evil twin would say, "and if I'm startled, I could lose control of a weight and it would go flying (in her direction)."

Do you hear her when she calls out to your DH?  Perhaps when you hear her, you could go outside and just look at her like she's the most pitiful thing on earth. Then shake your head, kiss your DH, and go back inside.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: cabbagegirl28 on December 04, 2012, 10:33:29 AM
Please don't flame me totally, but is it totally out of line to say to her, 'Do you realize how creepy you are being?  This is totally inappropriate and you are acting like a stalker.  Please stop.'

Not OP or her DH, but I wouldn't use stalker, only because people like that would just laugh it off and saying he's being too serious. But I'd definitely say the rest of it.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: TurtleDove on December 04, 2012, 10:33:42 AM
Please don't flame me totally, but is it totally out of line to say to her, 'Do you realize how creepy you are being?  This is totally inappropriate and you are acting like a stalker.  Please stop.'

I think this is valid.  I have personally done this, and it is awkward, but it has worked for me.  The "stalker" ends up feeling sheepish, which he (in this case she) should. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: MrTango on December 04, 2012, 10:45:34 AM
Please don't flame me totally, but is it totally out of line to say to her, 'Do you realize how creepy you are being?  This is totally inappropriate and you are acting like a stalker.  Please stop.'

Not OP or her DH, but I wouldn't use stalker, only because people like that would just laugh it off and saying he's being too serious. But I'd definitely say the rest of it.

Maybe change "stalker" to "creep"?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Tabby Uprising on December 04, 2012, 10:51:01 AM
The only additional advice I have pertains to your shoji screen.  If I were DH, I would have it on hand on the balcony before my work out.  When the neighbor starts angling for his attention he can stop, glare at her pointedly and then set up the screen.  I think that would send a very strong and direct message. 

Good luck!
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: artk2002 on December 04, 2012, 10:53:51 AM
The only additional advice I have pertains to your shoji screen.  If I were DH, I would have it on hand on the balcony before my work out.  When the neighbor starts angling for his attention he can stop, glare at her pointedly and then set up the screen.  I think that would send a very strong and direct message. 

Good luck!

I'm sorry, but that's not direct, that's Passive Aggressive. Direct is saying "Stop! Don't bother me again.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: VorFemme on December 04, 2012, 10:58:48 AM
The only additional advice I have pertains to your shoji screen.  If I were DH, I would have it on hand on the balcony before my work out.  When the neighbor starts angling for his attention he can stop, glare at her pointedly and then set up the screen.  I think that would send a very strong and direct message. 

Good luck!

I'm sorry, but that's not direct, that's Passive Aggressive. Direct is saying "Stop! Don't bother me again.

THEN if they persist in "calling" out to someone else from their balcony - put up the screen. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Tabby Uprising on December 04, 2012, 10:59:39 AM
The only additional advice I have pertains to your shoji screen.  If I were DH, I would have it on hand on the balcony before my work out.  When the neighbor starts angling for his attention he can stop, glare at her pointedly and then set up the screen.  I think that would send a very strong and direct message. 

Good luck!

I'm sorry, but that's not direct, that's Passive Aggressive. Direct is saying "Stop! Don't bother me again.

I don't see it as passive aggressive.  I don't want you looking at me and I'm putting up something to keep you from staring.  Nothing wrong with outright saying "stop looking at me" as well. He can do both. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: WillyNilly on December 04, 2012, 11:09:49 AM
The only additional advice I have pertains to your shoji screen.  If I were DH, I would have it on hand on the balcony before my work out.  When the neighbor starts angling for his attention he can stop, glare at her pointedly and then set up the screen.  I think that would send a very strong and direct message. 

Good luck!

I'm sorry, but that's not direct, that's Passive Aggressive. Direct is saying "Stop! Don't bother me again.

I don't see it as passive aggressive.  I don't want you looking at me and I'm putting up something to keep you from staring.  Nothing wrong with outright saying "stop looking at me" as well. He can do both.

The reason I don't think this is passive aggressive is because there are other neighbors and other balcony's.  Yes she is harassing OP's DH with her cat calls but I bet the noise is disturbing other tenant's quiet enjoyment of their balcony's too. Calling out from one terrace to another is nothing short of obnoxious.  Right now its just her being obnoxious and rude to the whole side of the building.  If OP's husband starts shouting back responses, even if they are "stop it" responses, he is contributing to annoying all the neighbors.  If he silently indicates the screen and puts it up, he is communicating via body language "this is because of you and me wanting to block you out" without making noise that might disturb others.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: BeagleMommy on December 04, 2012, 11:41:41 AM
Wow, she's taking obvious to an entirely new level, isn't she?  I'm 47 and would never consider wearing something that tacky even for DH's enjoyment!

OP, you've gotten some good advice here.  I'm going to POD that your DH needs to clearly tell her that her attentions are unwanted.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: whiskeytangofoxtrot on December 04, 2012, 11:44:10 AM
I'm in agreement that the building management should be notified, along with a direct confrontation- from both of you at the same time. If she wants nothing to do with you, then it sounds like being present during his workouts might help, too.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: cicero on December 04, 2012, 11:57:37 AM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 04, 2012, 12:05:52 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Girly on December 04, 2012, 12:14:14 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: NyaChan on December 04, 2012, 12:23:17 PM
I asked about the outfit just in case it was borderline & her behavior was just getting misunderstood.  I also asked because I am really nosy. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: #borecore on December 04, 2012, 12:25:18 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

I'm confused. Why is being disrespectful and sexually harassing someone OK? Her behavior is completely out of line (though simple flirting with a man you believe to be single is no biggie, catcalling and staring at him is never OK).

In order of escalation, as needed: Screen, directly telling her to stop and then management, in that order.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Girly on December 04, 2012, 12:28:04 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

I'm confused. Why is being disrespectful and sexually harassing someone OK? Her behavior is completely out of line (though simple flirting with a man you believe to be single is no biggie, catcalling and staring at him is never OK).

In order of escalation, as needed: Screen, directly telling her to stop and then management, in that order.

Because to this point, the husband hasn't said anything to her about it, as in.... asking her to stop. (Unless I missed a post?) So as far as this lady knows, he either doesn't care, or enjoys it.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 04, 2012, 12:31:48 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

It's acceptable to come on to a married man? It's okay to try to break up a marriage?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Girly on December 04, 2012, 12:34:20 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

It's acceptable to come on to a married man? It's okay to try to break up a marriage?

Well, some people are in to that sort of thing.... there's a whole website devoted to married people looking for someone else.

Like I said earlier, how is she supposed to know he doesn't want her to come on to him, unless he asks her not to? Sure, most people don't come on to someone they know is married, but not everyone... and it doesn't make them rude. Catcalling, I agree with... but the general flirting, etc. is not rude in my book.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: TurtleDove on December 04, 2012, 12:39:00 PM
Because to this point, the husband hasn't said anything to her about it, as in.... asking her to stop. (Unless I missed a post?) So as far as this lady knows, he either doesn't care, or enjoys it.

You have a point here - that the DH should say something - but that does not make her behavior anywhere near approaching appropriate.  In my view, it is not okay to pursue someone you know is in a relationship. I grasp some people have various styles of relationships, but unless and until someone who is in that relationship invites you to join, pursuing something with someone in a relationship is always rude as I see it.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 04, 2012, 12:42:43 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

It's acceptable to come on to a married man? It's okay to try to break up a marriage?

Well, some people are in to that sort of thing.... there's a whole website devoted to married people looking for someone else.

Like I said earlier, how is she supposed to know he doesn't want her to come on to him, unless he asks her not to? Sure, most people don't come on to someone they know is married, but not everyone... and it doesn't make them rude. Catcalling, I agree with... but the general flirting, etc. is not rude in my book.

Although I'm not entirely sure I agree with it or disagree with it, I kind of see Girly's point.  Mental Boyfriend, after about five or six months of me doing it, finally said to me one day, "It actually kind of grosses me out when you do that."  I blinked, looked at him, and said, "Well if I would have known, I would have stopped doing it five or six months ago.  How was I supposed to know it wasn't OK if you didn't tell me?"  (Then I asked him why he endured it for that long and asked which was worse, telling me he didn't like it or putting up with it for so long?  He answered putting up with it for so long... ::))

The general flirting is OK, the kicking it up a notch with catcalling and inappropriate* clothing is not.

As for the screen thing being passive aggressive or not, I'd say it is definitely passive, but I don't see it as aggressive at all.  It's non-verbal communication plain and simple.


*Inappropriate meaning inappropriate for that time and place.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: jedikaiti on December 04, 2012, 12:48:31 PM
Because to this point, the husband hasn't said anything to her about it, as in.... asking her to stop. (Unless I missed a post?) So as far as this lady knows, he either doesn't care, or enjoys it.

You have a point here - that the DH should say something - but that does not make her behavior anywhere near approaching appropriate.  In my view, it is not okay to pursue someone you know is in a relationship. I grasp some people have various styles of relationships, but unless and until someone who is in that relationship invites you to join, pursuing something with someone in a relationship is always rude as I see it.

Exactly. It is rude and disrespectful to both the person being approached AND their SO. If you don't know they're already spoken for, that's one thing, but once you DO know, you back off. Now if your intended target actively encourages you, that's one thing, and then you're both being rude and disrespectful to the SO. But that's another can of worms for another thread.

The catcalling and whistling is sexual harassment and nobody should be on the receiving end of that. One can hope that Tammy is just clueless enough to think she's being harmless or flattering, but he needs to tell her to stop (she seems likely to register pretty low on the clue meter, so I think polite but blunt is likely the way to go), and if she doesn't, she should be handled in the same manner as one would recommend a female handle a male creeper - cut direct, document, and a chat with building management (&/or Tammy's landlord, since (IIRC) the OP & hubby own their unit, but Tammy rents hers).

Hopefully a polite, direct request to stop will be the clue-by-four Tammy needs to snap out of it, but OP & hubby should have a few next moves in mind just in case it isn't.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: AngelBarchild on December 04, 2012, 12:54:24 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

It's acceptable to come on to a married man? It's okay to try to break up a marriage?

Well, some people are in to that sort of thing.... there's a whole website devoted to married people looking for someone else.

Like I said earlier, how is she supposed to know he doesn't want her to come on to him, unless he asks her not to? Sure, most people don't come on to someone they know is married, but not everyone... and it doesn't make them rude. Catcalling, I agree with... but the general flirting, etc. is not rude in my book.

I'm agree with Girly.  Married /= monogamous now days. I don't see how anyone expects this woman to stop flirting without telling her he's not interested. People need to use words, not expect others to be mind readers.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: TurtleDove on December 04, 2012, 01:01:01 PM
I'm agree with Girly.  Married /= monogamous now days. I don't see how anyone expects this woman to stop flirting without telling her he's not interested. People need to use words, not expect others to be mind readers.

I do.  For everyone's sake.  I wouldn't want any of my friends to lower themselves to pursuing a married man, so as this woman's friend I would expect her to stop flirting.  As the OP I would expect her to stop flirting.  As a member of society I would expect her to stop flirting with a married man.  If he flirts back, well, then he's got bigger problems and as another poster said that's a whole other thread.  But really I don't think it's bizarre to expect any individual to not pursue someone who is known to them to be married. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: cicero on December 04, 2012, 01:04:15 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

It's acceptable to come on to a married man? It's okay to try to break up a marriage?

Well, some people are in to that sort of thing.... there's a whole website devoted to married people looking for someone else.

Like I said earlier, how is she supposed to know he doesn't want her to come on to him, unless he asks her not to? Sure, most people don't come on to someone they know is married, but not everyone... and it doesn't make them rude. Catcalling, I agree with... but the general flirting, etc. is not rude in my book.

I'm agree with Girly.  Married /= monogamous now days. I don't see how anyone expects this woman to stop flirting without telling her he's not interested. People need to use words, not expect others to be mind readers.
i think she has gone beyond harmless flirting when she uses cat calling, wolf whistling and balcony stalking-in-a-robe.

and jsut because there is a web site devoted to a past-time, doesn't make that past time ok. i also don't think that married / = monogamous. there are things that are wrong - and just because people do them (like stealing, or cheating, or shop lifting) doesn't mean they are ok.

I definitely agree that she should be told to stop but her behavior is still creepy.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Girly on December 04, 2012, 01:13:19 PM
Married and single people flirt all the time. The receptionist at one of my clients offices flirts shamelessly with the UPS man, and he flirts shamelessly right back. Both are married. However, if one of them didn't want to continue, or think it was appropriate in the beginning, it's up to them to say something to the other to stop it. If it continues after that, then it's a problem.

I did agree the catcalling was inappropriate, but again.... if the husband hasn't said a word to discourage Tammy.... how is she to know he doesn't enjoy it? Just because you (or I) agree with what she is doing (flirting with a known married man), doesn't make it rude. He has to first ask her to stop her behavior. Once she continues.... well then she's most certainly rude, and additional steps need to be taken.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Yvaine on December 04, 2012, 01:14:51 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

Or she may just have bad taste in clothes.  ;) Seriously, the sum total of her behavior is inappropriate, and her outfit sends a message in the context of all that (especially if that's not the way she dresses every other day), but I don't want us to end up on a slippery slope where we assume every woman dressed "sexy" is doing it to hit on a specific guy.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: TurtleDove on December 04, 2012, 01:23:40 PM
Married and single people flirt all the time.

I agree with this - I am a major flirt, as is my SO.  But I would never do what this woman is doing, which is not "flirting" in my book.  I used that term because we as a board had been using it to describe her behavior, but what she is doing is not flirting in my view.  Flirting is innocent and fun.  Coming on to someone, catcalling them, making it clear you want something outside the public realm, is not flirting.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: AngelBarchild on December 04, 2012, 01:24:36 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

If she didn't know he was married when she came to the door.... why is it wrong for her to come on to him?

Actually, I don't even think it's wrong for her to come on to him even now that she knows he's married, to be honest.

It's acceptable to come on to a married man? It's okay to try to break up a marriage?

Well, some people are in to that sort of thing.... there's a whole website devoted to married people looking for someone else.

Like I said earlier, how is she supposed to know he doesn't want her to come on to him, unless he asks her not to? Sure, most people don't come on to someone they know is married, but not everyone... and it doesn't make them rude. Catcalling, I agree with... but the general flirting, etc. is not rude in my book.

I'm agree with Girly.  Married /= monogamous now days. I don't see how anyone expects this woman to stop flirting without telling her he's not interested. People need to use words, not expect others to be mind readers.
i think she has gone beyond harmless flirting when she uses cat calling, wolf whistling and balcony stalking-in-a-robe.

and jsut because there is a web site devoted to a past-time, doesn't make that past time ok. i also don't think that married / = monogamous. there are things that are wrong - and just because people do them (like stealing, or cheating, or shop lifting) doesn't mean they are ok.

I definitely agree that she should be told to stop but her behavior is still creepy.

I think the catcalling thing rude, I was only talking about the flirting. My comment that  married / = monogamous was not about cheating people have all kinds of complicated relationships. Truthfully though, I believe the onus not to engage inappropriate behavior* is on the person in the relationship. I don't think it's too much to expect to be told if someone doesn't want to be flirted with. This whole thing seems like a big communication fail.

*inappropriate by the rules of your relationship
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: NyaChan on December 04, 2012, 01:30:11 PM
Married does not necessarily mean people are monogamous.  I totally get that, people do have open marriages.  But I don't think it is so prevalent that the default is to flirt with a married person until they tell you that their marriage is not open.  I think you back off when you find someone is married unless they indicate to you that they are okay with this sort of relationship. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Firecat on December 04, 2012, 01:34:52 PM
Married and single people flirt all the time.

I agree with this - I am a major flirt, as is my SO.  But I would never do what this woman is doing, which is not "flirting" in my book.  I used that term because we as a board had been using it to describe her behavior, but what she is doing is not flirting in my view.  Flirting is innocent and fun.  Coming on to someone, catcalling them, making it clear you want something outside the public realm, is not flirting.

Flirting can definitely be fun and innocent. Some of our male friends flirt with me, knowing I'm married, but we all know that flirting is all it's going to be - and I try never to say or do anything I wouldn't do or say in the presence of my DH. Actually, sometimes my DH is present.

What this woman is doing is way beyond that, and since she apparently doesn't realize (or doesn't care) that it's inappropriate and the OP's DH doesn't like it, I think he'd be doing everyone a favor by telling her once, directly, that it's not appreciated. After that, it depends on what she does in response. Hopefully she'll avoid the OP and her DH afterwards, but it's possible she might escalate, and then they can act accordingly.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Calypso on December 04, 2012, 01:36:30 PM
I have to admit, when the OP said an "older" woman I mentally defaulted to "older than me," and I'm coming up on 53  8) so, to me, late 40s sounds comparatively spring chicken-ish. I was picturing something else.....but Tammy clearly believes (or, did believe, before she knew DH was married) that she could be Demi Moore to his Ashton Kutcher (pre break up).

And, OP, I'm really glad she can't harass you with a landlord. That helps a lot!

I hope nobody says something to get this thread locked, because I must admit I look forward to the updates  ;D
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Tea Drinker on December 04, 2012, 01:38:35 PM
POD NyaChan: Enough married people are monogamous that outside a very few contexts (and an apartment complex is not such a context), it's not prudent or kind to assume otherwise. You can ask, politely, but only if you're prepared for a response along the lines "How can you even think that?!

The neighbor here didn't send a note saying something like "I know you're married, but if it's open, I'm interested" or ask directly "so, you're married, does that mean you're monogamous?" Nor did she wait for OP or her husband to say something (in the universe next door where they have that kind of relationship, and if he was interested, he could send a note inviting her to meet them for a cup of coffee, and maybe take it from there). But there seem to be a lot of single people who will happily make passes at married people, and back off if the answer is "sure, but I have to talk to my wife/husband about it."
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: rose red on December 04, 2012, 01:40:40 PM
I hope nobody says something to get this thread locked, because I must admit I look forward to the updates  ;D

Me too.

We can't tell the woman to stop or tell her what's right and wrong because she's not the one on Ehell, so perhaps we should get back on topic with suggestions and phases that the OP and her DH can use to get this woman to back off.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Girly on December 04, 2012, 01:46:47 PM
I hope nobody says something to get this thread locked, because I must admit I look forward to the updates  ;D

Me too.

We can't tell the woman to stop or tell her what's right and wrong because she's not the one on Ehell, so perhaps we should get back on topic with suggestions and phases that the OP and her DH can use to get this woman to back off.

Well, since she's flirting with the husband, and not the OP, I'd say the husband should start with 'Thanks, but I'm married'  or 'Tempting, but I'm married!' or something similar when they are up close. If you give her a gracious way out, she'd probably be more receptive (even though you don't have to be!).

If she continues to catcall on the balcony, put up the screen when she starts. Yelling back at  her across balconies (30 ft. away) will get you nowhere, and probably annoy other neighbors even further.

I wouldn't advise the OP to say anything to this woman, as she's already demonstrated she doesn't really care the Husband is married, and would probably just dismiss the OP's comments as a jealous wife.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: CaptainObvious on December 04, 2012, 01:47:59 PM
Until her Husband says something, the woman will not stop. She obviously does not care that he is married and subtle hints won't get it.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Firecat on December 04, 2012, 01:49:52 PM
I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: FauxFoodist on December 04, 2012, 01:52:58 PM
I think it's noteworthy that Peeping Tammy is a renter.  My suggestion is for DH to state once (verbally or in a letter), "Leave me alone.  Leave my wife alone.  I am not interested in being your friend or in any of your attention.  Further attempts at contact will result in contacting your landlord."  Should this not work, contact the landlord.  Ownership of the apartment should be publicly available, and the landlord would be responsible for reining in his bothersome tenant.

Years ago, a friend of mine had new neighbors 2-3 doors down who would have a loud party in their backyard every weekend -- seriously, EVERY weekend with loud music blaring.  You couldn't be in his house and not hear the music.  One day, the parties ended.  Why?  Apparently, the owners of the house were renting it out and had rented it to a group of young guys who either really didn't care or consider how their loud parties EVERY DARN WEEKEND were affecting the qualify of life in the neighborhood.  Well, one of the other homeowners in the neighborhood either knew the owners or knew a relative of the owners and had the complaint conveyed.  I'm not sure if the guys continued to live there or were evicted, but the end result is the obnoxious behavior stopped.

Basically, Peeping Tammy's landlord should be able to make the behavior stop if she doesn't stop herself.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: cicero on December 04, 2012, 01:55:52 PM
ewww, how creepy.

I think her age is not relevant (only the fact that she is considerably older than your dh). i think that the outfit she wore is not relevant (whether it is or isn't appropriate for women over X years to dress like that). references to her "hormonal irrationality" suggested by Calypso are also irrelevant.

the fact is she is making the moves on a married man, she is being extremely disrespectful of a married couple, and - seriously? cat calling and wolf whistling? sorry, btu that is very very very wrong.

I agree with PPs who say that you (dh) needs to tell her to stop, now. and then you need to take this up the chain. document document because you never know when/how crazy she will get.

Other than the age issue, her attire IS relevant because it showed she was trying to come on to him.

Or she may just have bad taste in clothes.  ;) Seriously, the sum total of her behavior is inappropriate, and her outfit sends a message in the context of all that (especially if that's not the way she dresses every other day), but I don't want us to end up on a slippery slope where we assume every woman dressed "sexy" is doing it to hit on a specific guy.
thank you. i think that's what i was trying to say
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: weeblewobble on December 04, 2012, 01:58:00 PM
I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

Yep, almost every personal safety book/expert will tell you not to put a person up as a "shield" between you and someone who has an inappropriate level of interest in you.  Because that basically puts a target on that shield's back, turning the creep's anger and hostility and energy toward getting rid of that person so the creep and his/her interest can be together.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Girly on December 04, 2012, 02:03:11 PM
I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

Yep, almost every personal safety book/expert will tell you not to put a person up as a "shield" between you and someone who has an inappropriate level of interest in you.  Because that basically puts a target on that shield's back, turning the creep's anger and hostility and energy toward getting rid of that person so the creep and his/her interest can be together.

While she has participated in some odd and inappropriate behavior, I'm not sure this lady is a 'creep', and they need to take personal safety into account here.....
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Firecat on December 04, 2012, 02:16:25 PM
I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

Yep, almost every personal safety book/expert will tell you not to put a person up as a "shield" between you and someone who has an inappropriate level of interest in you.  Because that basically puts a target on that shield's back, turning the creep's anger and hostility and energy toward getting rid of that person so the creep and his/her interest can be together.

While she has participated in some odd and inappropriate behavior, I'm not sure this lady is a 'creep', and they need to take personal safety into account here.....

I'm not sure she isn't either...and I don't think it's ever a bad thing to take personal safety into account. Besides that, I just think it's better to be very, very clear in situations like this one. If for no other reason than because it seems like the neighbor's social skills may be a bit lacking, and so clarity is more likely to be effective.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: ilrag on December 04, 2012, 02:31:59 PM
Regardless of the marriage/monogamy issue  I think we can all agree that the most logical first step is to have the husband tell the neighbor he's not interested in her and doesn't like the attention and to please not speak to him while he is lifting weights.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: weeblewobble on December 04, 2012, 02:37:01 PM
I actually wouldn't advise using "I'm married," as a method of turning her down. If only because that leaves her room to think "Oh, he totally wants me. Now if the inconvenient wife were, say, out of town..."

I think it would be better for the DH to tell her clearly that he is not interested; just that, with no caveats or reasons.

Yep, almost every personal safety book/expert will tell you not to put a person up as a "shield" between you and someone who has an inappropriate level of interest in you.  Because that basically puts a target on that shield's back, turning the creep's anger and hostility and energy toward getting rid of that person so the creep and his/her interest can be together.

While she has participated in some odd and inappropriate behavior, I'm not sure this lady is a 'creep', and they need to take personal safety into account here.....

With respect, I think that if a man was finding a steady stream of excuses to arrange solo encounters with a woman, showed up to her door half-dressed, and stood on his balcony cat-calling that woman while she attempted to work out, we would have no problem putting the "creep" label on him. 

This woman's behavior is predatory and inappropriate. It makes her target uncomfortable.  She doesn't care if that behavior affects other people, i.e., her target's wife.  That meets my three-point checklist for creeps.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: weeblewobble on December 04, 2012, 02:37:42 PM
Regardless of the marriage/monogamy issue  I think we can all agree that the most logical first step is to have the husband tell the neighbor he's not interested in her and doesn't like the attention and to please not speak to him while he is lifting weights.

POD.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: WillyNilly on December 04, 2012, 02:48:05 PM
While she has participated in some odd and inappropriate behavior, I'm not sure this lady is a 'creep', and they need to take personal safety into account here.....

Personal safety does not have to be at risk for someone to be a creepy.  She is certainly impeding the OP and the OP's DH from reasonable usage and enjoyment of their home.  And she's doing it in a creepy way - a way that makes them uncomfortable and possibly feeling icked out and getting and shivers up the spine when thinking of having to interact with her or be caught in the elevator with her, etc - that to me makes her a creep. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on December 04, 2012, 02:50:04 PM
The way I have understood flirting is its delicious ambiguity: Is there something going on?  Is it just innocent fun?  By my standard, this is not flirting.  Especially when flirting is supposed to be mutual.  Even if the husband has not explicitly told her to leave him alone, he also has not responded.

He should tell her once: "I am not interested, and when I am working out, I don't want to be disturbed."  Ideally, he should tell her this when he sees her, because this yelling on her part is already super tacky.

Then escalate: screen, and complaints to her landlord.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: bopper on December 04, 2012, 03:47:42 PM
I think you should go out on the balcony and "spot" your husband.  Be around him alot at first when he is outside.  Also he should no longer help her do anything. Open the door? Sure. Help set up an entertainment system? No.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Just Lori on December 04, 2012, 04:06:49 PM
I say you ask her what she's doing:

NL:  Hi Fred!  Yoo hoo Fred, you sure look strong and sweaty out there.
DH:  Is everything OK?  Do you need someone to call 911?
NL:  911?  What are you talking about?
DH:  Well, you're making some strange noises up there.  At your age, you can't be too careful.  Maybe you should get one of those buttons that you hang around your neck to call for help.
NL: Oh no, I'm much too young for that.  I was just being friendly.
DH:  Good.  I was worried that you were either hurting or you were flirting with me, and I knew you're not going to be flirting with a happily married man, right?

As a person who's painfully close in age to neighbor lady, I don't typically suggest bringing up the age disparity.  But she's so far over the line that I'm afraid she needs to be shocked back into her senses.  If she had pulled back when she met the OP, then I'd advocate a polite amnesia about the whole episode.  But again, she's passed that.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Sophia on December 04, 2012, 04:11:44 PM
I think you both have been far too nice to woman.  Even if the OP's DH was single and the same age as the neighbor, this woman's behavior would be creepy.  He shouldn't have to tell her to leave him alone.  That he isn't responding to her advances should be enough to tell her to back off.  That is I think where many of us think she crossed over into creepy.  At this point, OP's DH saying "Do not talk to me, do not catcall me.  I'd really prefer it if you didn't even look at me.  Your behavior is creepy.  Leave me alone."  Then do a complete cut direct.  Don't hold the door for her.  Nothing. 

I personally wouldn't spot the husband.  I've found that the best offense against women too interested in my husband is to be completely unconcerned about them.  I treat them like his sister.  Not anyone I worry about him being around, but not anyone I personally really want to be around.  DH has said that it has had a noticeable effect. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: VorFemme on December 04, 2012, 04:22:29 PM
One thing that could get the message across - have the guy tell her that she reminds him of his aunt or mother.  Subtle, but most likely crushing to a "flirt" - unless your mother was Sophia Loren or Elizabeth Taylor......
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Editeer on December 04, 2012, 04:25:27 PM
One thing that could get the message across - have the guy tell her that she reminds him of his aunt or mother.  Subtle, but most likely crushing to a "flirt" - unless your mother was Sophia Loren or Elizabeth Taylor......

Yes, this! And also put up a screen on the balcony.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Surianne on December 04, 2012, 04:45:00 PM
I wouldn't go with subtle -- it sounds like she's not being subtle herself, so just face it head-on.  I agree with ilrag:

the most logical first step is to have the husband tell the neighbor he's not interested in her and doesn't like the attention and to please not speak to him while he is lifting weights.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Amara on December 04, 2012, 05:57:11 PM
He should tell her once: "I am not interested, and when I am working out, I don't want to be disturbed."

This! He should make a point of saying exactly this when he sees her in or around the building. Ideally, it would be when he is not working out. And the OP should stay completely out of the conversation because the communication needs to come from her DH directly to the neighbor so that the neighbor understands that the OP isn't "running interference" so to speak.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: DavidH on December 04, 2012, 07:00:06 PM
It seems to me that she gets a pass for the cookie incident since as the OP said, she didn't know he was married.  The only issue there seems to be her somewhat unfortunate choice of attire.

The OP said, "DH really doesn't like the interruptions and he's trying to ignore her but she isn't taking the hint." He needs to be more direct first before we go to the document, build a screen, she's a stalker level. 

OP's DH needs to say, at least one, "Neighbor, please don't call to me or whistle at me while I'm working out, it's very distracting."  If she doesn't respond to that, he can always be more forceful the next time, as in "Neighbor, I've asked before and you've ignored my request, do not call to me or whistle at me while I'm working out." 

You can always escalate, but in general, the first step is to actually ask the person to stop. 
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: sunnygirl on December 04, 2012, 07:36:02 PM
It seems to me that she gets a pass for the cookie incident since as the OP said, she didn't know he was married.  The only issue there seems to be her somewhat unfortunate choice of attire.

The OP said, "DH really doesn't like the interruptions and he's trying to ignore her but she isn't taking the hint." He needs to be more direct first before we go to the document, build a screen, she's a stalker level. 

OP's DH needs to say, at least one, "Neighbor, please don't call to me or whistle at me while I'm working out, it's very distracting."  If she doesn't respond to that, he can always be more forceful the next time, as in "Neighbor, I've asked before and you've ignored my request, do not call to me or whistle at me while I'm working out." 

You can always escalate, but in general, the first step is to actually ask the person to stop.
I agree. Her behaviour is totally inappropriate (barring the first incident when she thought he was single - that's embarrassing and maybe a bit OTT but not out of line) -- but so far the husband hasn't said the very simple word 'no' to her. I think it's an overreaction to start talking about stalking and threatening her with eviction without trying a 'not interested please stop' first. Saying 'no' should always be the first step when faced with unwelcome attention, unless the person is violent or obviously unstable/dangerous.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Amava on December 04, 2012, 08:16:50 PM
I really don't think people should /need/ to be told that it is not okay to cat-call at a neighbour who is trying to exercise on his balcony, minding his or her own business.

There is flirting, and then there is being intrusive and rude, making a complete fool of oneself in the process. I don't even know in what universe she thinks her behaviour is ok or attractive.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: ladyknight1 on December 04, 2012, 08:42:18 PM
OP, I am so sorry you are going through this. I would be flabbergasted if I were you.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: VorFemme on December 04, 2012, 09:09:09 PM
Snarky and Evil had another suggestion - not only does Peeping Tammy "remind" your DH of his mother (or her sister - grandma if he really wants to get the point across) in her looks - but she uses the same cologne that his relative does......

If that doesn't get the message across that he does not think of her as a potential "romantic" partner - well, he'd have to do the equivalent of running over her with the Cluedozer - twice.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: CaptainObvious on December 04, 2012, 09:25:47 PM
Snarky and Evil had another suggestion - not only does Peeping Tammy "remind" your DH of his mother (or her sister - grandma if he really wants to get the point across) in her looks - but she uses the same cologne that his relative does......

If that doesn't get the message across that he does not think of her as a potential "romantic" partner - well, he'd have to do the equivalent of running over her with the Cluedozer - twice.

I don't think passive aggressive comments are the way to approach the situation.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: NutMeg on December 04, 2012, 10:18:38 PM
I agree. If this woman was sensitive to social cues she would not still be flirting with this guy. She isn't sensitive to those cues, so the time has come to move beyond them.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Rusty on December 04, 2012, 10:44:10 PM
I agree with Nutmeg, she sounds like she's a sandwich short of a picnic!
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: artk2002 on December 04, 2012, 11:29:37 PM
Well, some people are in to that sort of thing.... there's a whole website devoted to married people looking for someone else.

Like I said earlier, how is she supposed to know he doesn't want her to come on to him, unless he asks her not to? Sure, most people don't come on to someone they know is married, but not everyone... and it doesn't make them rude. Catcalling, I agree with... but the general flirting, etc. is not rude in my book.

There may be web sites that cater to that taste, but unless I missed something, the OP's home isn't one such web site. The assumption in polite society is that someone's spouse or committed partner is off limits. No need for someone to explicitly say "stop" unless the person is rude, as Peeping Tammy is.

The existence of swingers doesn't make Tammy's behavior acceptable in any way, shape or form.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Allyson on December 05, 2012, 12:59:50 AM
I think OP's husband should tell her firmly, "Please don't call out to me when I'm lifting weights. It's a safety risk." He doesn't need to bring up 'flirting' or 'wife' because she could easily deny it and play wounded gazelle. But she can't deny she's called out to him when lifting weights. If that doesn't stop the problem, be more firm with her to please leave him alone at other times.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: gypsy77 on December 05, 2012, 01:05:18 AM
While she has participated in some odd and inappropriate behavior, I'm not sure this lady is a 'creep', and they need to take personal safety into account here.....

Personal safety does not have to be at risk for someone to be a creepy.  She is certainly impeding the OP and the OP's DH from reasonable usage and enjoyment of their home.  And she's doing it in a creepy way - a way that makes them uncomfortable and possibly feeling icked out and getting and shivers up the spine when thinking of having to interact with her or be caught in the elevator with her, etc - that to me makes her a creep.

Not only that, but using phrasing like "tempting, but I am married" actually implies he *is* interested, which is the exact opposite of the message he wants to convey. It's the same as when we give advice not to justify, argue, defend or explain when refusing something. Using marital status as an excuse gives her something to argue against and keep the conversation (or harassment) going.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Raintree on December 05, 2012, 02:42:19 AM
I agree, no, no, nooooo to the word "tempting." That comes off as encouragement. Sounds as though he's not even remotely tempted.

Updates, OP?
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Stormtreader on December 05, 2012, 03:40:42 AM
I think the discussions about people having open marriages and "what if the genders were reversed" are making this a bit more complicated than it needs to be - even if it was a man calling out to a girl, the first step should always be "tell them clearly you are not interested and that they need to stop".
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Amava on December 05, 2012, 08:04:28 AM
I agree, no, no, nooooo to the word "tempting." That comes off as encouragement. Sounds as though he's not even remotely tempted.

Updates, OP?

I agree with you too, there. The last thing he wants to do is encourage her by saying it is "tempting".
He's not attracted to her, and not interested, and that it that. Married or not.

/end reply to the quote


Also, to the thread in general: again, to me it does not matter whether a neighbour is single, in an open marriage, married, engaged, attractive or ugly. You do not cat-call or make loud comments to any person who is exercising, moving the lawn, or going about whatever their business of the moment is. I don't care how attractive they are. That is just rude and uncalled for.

This woman needs to learn that a  neighbourhood is not a strip club where people show themselves off for your enjoyment and where you voice your approval loudly. Leave people in peace. Again, I just can't fathom how this woman does not realise that it is not okay to harass and embarrass people like that, and make such a spectacle of herself. It's just not done.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: sourwolf on December 05, 2012, 08:13:43 AM
I think the discussions about people having open marriages and "what if the genders were reversed" are making this a bit more complicated than it needs to be - even if it was a man calling out to a girl, the first step should always be "tell them clearly you are not interested and that they need to stop".

I think the point about genders being reversed was that it seemed like a number of posters were downplaying this woman's behavior, when, if it was a man doing the same thing, there would likely be a unanimous outcry that he was indeed creepy and inappropriate.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: O'Dell on December 05, 2012, 10:05:53 AM
I think the discussions about people having open marriages and "what if the genders were reversed" are making this a bit more complicated than it needs to be - even if it was a man calling out to a girl, the first step should always be "tell them clearly you are not interested and that they need to stop".

I agree. I think the OP's husband has some good wording and tactics for him to use. If I'm reading it right, his first reaction is anger and he's right to not want to go off on a verbal tear with the lady. He just needs some solutions for that middle ground between doing nothing and cussing at her. :D
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Devix on December 05, 2012, 11:58:02 AM
So, a small update.

DH ran into Tammy last night when he was coming home from work.  They exchanged a very simple greeting and then DH proceeded to tell her that he did not appreciate her attentions towards him.  I think his words were "Please stop calling out to me when I am on my balcony.  I enjoy my private time without interruptions and I find your interruptions to be distracting and inappropriate.  The whole situation is making me uncomfortable and I want to make sure you realize that I am only your neighbor and absolutely nothing more."

He said she seemed to take it well and I hope the matter is resolved.  Still, we won't exactly be going out of our way to do any favors for Tammy.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Outdoor Girl on December 05, 2012, 11:59:56 AM
Perfect!  I hope it solves the problem.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: jedikaiti on December 05, 2012, 02:02:49 PM
Beautiful! I hope it sticks.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: nuit93 on December 05, 2012, 02:25:02 PM
I think the discussions about people having open marriages and "what if the genders were reversed" are making this a bit more complicated than it needs to be - even if it was a man calling out to a girl, the first step should always be "tell them clearly you are not interested and that they need to stop".

Me too--it's kind of irrelvant to the conversation.  Even if OP and her husband did have an open marriage, it doesn't mean he has to tolerate Tammy's behavior.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Winterlight on December 05, 2012, 02:42:23 PM
Good for DH! Hopefully she will get the point now.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: artk2002 on December 05, 2012, 07:44:11 PM
Great job, DH!
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Amava on December 05, 2012, 07:56:53 PM
So, a small update.

DH ran into Tammy last night when he was coming home from work.  They exchanged a very simple greeting and then DH proceeded to tell her that he did not appreciate her attentions towards him.  I think his words were "Please stop calling out to me when I am on my balcony.  I enjoy my private time without interruptions and I find your interruptions to be distracting and inappropriate.  The whole situation is making me uncomfortable and I want to make sure you realize that I am only your neighbor and absolutely nothing more."

He said she seemed to take it well and I hope the matter is resolved.  Still, we won't exactly be going out of our way to do any favors for Tammy.

You know something? I think he did her the biggest and most necessary favor he could have done her.
Without becoming insulting or rude, and in a totally reasonable way, he tried to help her see the reality, and gave her a chance to stop making a nuisance and a fool of herself.
I hope she puts this to good use and starts behaving like a normal neighbour now.
I hope it for your sake, for his, and for hers.

And if she does relapse... well, at least he tried.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: NutMeg on December 05, 2012, 10:15:34 PM
Perfect response by your husband. Polite, firm, and clear.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Gyburc on December 06, 2012, 04:41:54 AM
You know something? I think he did her the biggest and most necessary favor he could have done her.
Without becoming insulting or rude, and in a totally reasonable way, he tried to help her see the reality, and gave her a chance to stop making a nuisance and a fool of herself.
I hope she puts this to good use and starts behaving like a normal neighbour now.
I hope it for your sake, for his, and for hers.

And if she does relapse... well, at least he tried.

I completely agree. Well done, Devix's DH, and I hope she takes his very good advice.

Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: peach2play on December 06, 2012, 06:49:41 PM
Go your dear husband!
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: crella on December 06, 2012, 08:27:26 PM
Good for him! That was perfect.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Nora on December 07, 2012, 03:28:33 AM
Good! I too hope it sticks.

And as someone in an open marriage I'd like to say that it's not awesome when people find out we are open (because my or his BF/GF comes up), and they immidiately assume this to mean we'll appreciate aggressive flirting. And if we (particularly me as the woman), turn them down nicely it's not unusual to receive a face full of verbiage on the topic of their low self esteem and my lack of "sportsmanship".

Do not assume "open marriage" means "open to you". Not cool.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: nuit93 on December 07, 2012, 10:48:21 AM
Good! I too hope it sticks.

And as someone in an open marriage I'd like to say that it's not awesome when people find out we are open (because my or his BF/GF comes up), and they immidiately assume this to mean we'll appreciate aggressive flirting. And if we (particularly me as the woman), turn them down nicely it's not unusual to receive a face full of verbiage on the topic of their low self esteem and my lack of "sportsmanship".

Do not assume "open marriage" means "open to you". Not cool.

Absolutely!

Oh, the stories I could tell... :-\
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Raintree on December 07, 2012, 10:10:48 PM
A married female friend of mine was visiting her hometown on vacation without her husband (she wanted to visit, he was working, it was all good with all involved parties). She was suntanning in a local park when some guy started trying to chat her up. She wasn't interested, but trying to be polite and give cues like inserting "My husband this, my husband that" into the conversation. So he wanted to know where her husband was, and she explained that he had not come with her on this trip. (I know, she shouldn't have felt a need to explain a thing, but that's her nature). So he made comments like, 'Oh, you must have a very open marriage then!" She did not know what he meant by that but it was still offensive to have a stranger making assumptions about her marriage.

Anyway, I think the default assumption should be "not an open marriage" until otherwise indicated.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: weeblewobble on December 08, 2012, 05:28:56 AM
WHOA!! Good for your husband!! That was perfect!!
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: weeblewobble on December 08, 2012, 08:36:44 AM
Good! I too hope it sticks.

And as someone in an open marriage I'd like to say that it's not awesome when people find out we are open (because my or his BF/GF comes up), and they immidiately assume this to mean we'll appreciate aggressive flirting. And if we (particularly me as the woman), turn them down nicely it's not unusual to receive a face full of verbiage on the topic of their low self esteem and my lack of "sportsmanship".

Do not assume "open marriage" means "open to you". Not cool.

Wait, so because you have an open marriage, it's your responsibility to "improve their self-esteem?"  In their opinion, you're required to be open to everybody? That sounds like a massive, horrifying assumption.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Tea Drinker on December 08, 2012, 10:42:52 AM
Good! I too hope it sticks.

And as someone in an open marriage I'd like to say that it's not awesome when people find out we are open (because my or his BF/GF comes up), and they immidiately assume this to mean we'll appreciate aggressive flirting. And if we (particularly me as the woman), turn them down nicely it's not unusual to receive a face full of verbiage on the topic of their low self esteem and my lack of "sportsmanship".

Do not assume "open marriage" means "open to you". Not cool.

Wait, so because you have an open marriage, it's your responsibility to "improve their self-esteem?"  In their opinion, you're required to be open to everybody? That sounds like a massive, horrifying assumption.

Massive and horrifying, yes--and the men who say that probably also feel entitled to sex with random single women, regardless of what the women want.
Title: Re: New Neighbor: Peeping Tammy
Post by: Wordgeek on December 08, 2012, 02:20:25 PM
Thread closed.  Please see the forum rules about appropriate and inappropriate topics for the reason why.