Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: Mental Magpie on December 17, 2012, 01:28:12 PM

Title: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 17, 2012, 01:28:12 PM
Today's Dear Abby bothered me.  It's the last letter.

http://www.uexpress.com/dearabby/

In summary, a guest does not have a pair of flats to match the dress she plans on wearing to wedding.  The bridal party has requested that women do not wear heals because the bridal party is short.  Abby suggest the guest (and LW) either dye a pair of flats to match or not go.  I think Abby really, really, really missed the mark on this one.

What about guests who are already naturally tall?  Should they not go?  I also think the bridal party is out of line in telling guests which type of shoes to wear.  Dictating the formality of the event is one thing (casual versus black tie), but telling guests what kind of shoes (when the shoes are not relevant to the location, ie "The ground is likely to be mushy and high heals may sink in.") to wear is pushing it.  Even the LW mentions of hearing how bridal parties are telling guests what colors to wear, and I think this is along the same lines.  What say you?
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 17, 2012, 01:30:10 PM
Bridezilla needs to grow up.
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: SamiHami on December 17, 2012, 01:33:17 PM
Abby Jr. just does not have the common sense that her mother did. That is probably one of the dumbest responses I've seen since she took over. No, the HC cannot dictate what footwear the guests wear and that request simply should be ignored.
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: Judah on December 17, 2012, 01:33:44 PM
Bridezilla needs to grow up.

So this. 
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: rose red on December 17, 2012, 01:34:21 PM
I've been to plenty of weddings and never notice anyone's height.  I also never not noticed the person in the big white dress in the middle of the crowd, short/tall/thin/heavy.  Bride needs to get over herself.
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: msulinski on December 17, 2012, 01:34:53 PM
I agree - that request is ridiculous. Presumably they are old enough and mature enough now to have come to terms with their heights.
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: WillyNilly on December 17, 2012, 01:35:38 PM
Wow.

I do agree with one part of Abby's answer - this guest should absolutely consider not going. What an obnoxious request!  Heck, there are some women who wear heels so regularly that their gastrocnemius/soleus muscles have shortened and wearing flats for any amount of time (especially active time like dancing) can be painful!

When I got married I was surprised by the number of women who told me the color of the dress they planned to wear, and then asked "that's ok right?" I didn't even dictate the color of my bridesmaids, I sure as heck didn't care what my guests wore!  But apparently each asked me because they had previously been instructed on what colors could/could not be worn at weddings.
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: CakeBeret on December 17, 2012, 01:35:52 PM
Wow.

I would be irritated, but not enough to decline, probably. I generally prefer flats anyway, but none of my flats are formal enough for a wedding. Passive-Aggressive Me would wear flip-flops--after all, they are flats--but Civil Me would suck it up and wear flats, even if they didn't necessarily match.

I think Abby should have touched on the fact that it was a rude request in the first place.
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: BeagleMommy on December 17, 2012, 01:37:21 PM
Wow!  That's pretty audacious of the bride.  I've seen girls get all Bridezilla over their attendants, but never the guests.  I really think Dear Abby missed the mark on this one.
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: CluelessBride on December 17, 2012, 01:44:57 PM
Abby Jr. just does not have the common sense that her mother did. That is probably one of the dumbest responses I've seen since she took over. No, the HC cannot dictate what footwear the guests wear and that request simply should be ignored.

While I agree that the request is ridiculous, I think ignoring it and showing up in heals is retaliatory rudeness. An invitation is not a summons. If you don't like the rules, then decline. But breaking them to point out the rudeness or out of defiance doesn't win you any etiquette points.

If the request were "black tie attire", Abby's response would be spot on (either figure something out or politely decline). Why is it okay to request that someone wear a dress of a certain type but not shoes of a certain type? Basically because of tradition.  So while I dislike these new requests, and think Abby could have acknowledged that it was a little odd in her reply, I actually think her advice is correct: comply or politely decline.

 
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: onyonryngs on December 17, 2012, 01:45:08 PM
You can't tell the guests what shoes to wear.  That's nutty!
Title: Re: Bridal Parting Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 17, 2012, 01:46:50 PM
Abby Jr. just does not have the common sense that her mother did. That is probably one of the dumbest responses I've seen since she took over. No, the HC cannot dictate what footwear the guests wear and that request simply should be ignored.

While I agree that the request is ridiculous, I think ignoring it and showing up in heals is retaliatory rudeness. An invitation is not a summons. If you don't like the rules, then decline. But breaking them to point out the rudeness or out of defiance doesn't win you any etiquette points.

If the request were "black tie attire", Abby's response would be spot on (either figure something out or politely decline). Why is it okay to request that someone wear a dress of a certain type but not shoes of a certain type? Basically because of tradition.  So while I dislike these new requests, and think Abby could have acknowledged that it was a little odd in her reply, I actually think her advice is correct: comply or politely decline.

Except that "Black Tie Attire" is a formality issue.  That is completely different than "We're short and don't want people to be taller than us on our wedding day!".
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Redneck Gravy on December 17, 2012, 01:50:53 PM
I don't think Abby missed the mark entirely either. 

She gave the LW options - either wear different shoes or decline.  How hard is that?

However, I agree with everyone else about the ridiculousness of the request. 

Brides are becoming more and more demanding, I am waiting for the news that a guest was refused admission into a wedding because of their attire.  (high heels for example)     
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 17, 2012, 02:00:13 PM
Oh my goodness! The first time I read this, I thought the LW was a bridesmaid and I was like eh? Don't bride's have an input over the style/colour/make/fitting of their bridesmaids hair/dress/shoes/jewellery etc.. etc...? But then I read that we were talking about GUESTS here. That's ridiculous! That's so so so silly. Bride needs to have a word with herself about how silly she is being! It's an absurd request!

If I was the guest and didn't own flats or didn't want to wear flats or didn't think I was close enough to the couple to do either, I would decline to attend. The couple obviously feel self-concious about their height and if they don't want people there wearing heels, I just wouldn't go. I wouldn't go and wear heels and upset them just to prove the point of how ridiculous they are being. I wouldn't want to upset someone on their special day if they've asked me to wear something and I couldn't/didn't want to. Regardless of the daftness or unreasonableness of the request.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: LadyClaire on December 17, 2012, 02:00:43 PM
So what does the bridal party do if a guest is naturally taller than everyone? Demand that the person hunch over or spend the wedding sitting down?

Trying to dictate that a guest must avoid wearing high heels because of the height difference it creates it ridiculous. Honestly, in every wedding I've ever been to I have never really noticed the difference in height between the bridal party and guests. I've noticed if a groomsman is a lot taller than a bridesmaid (at his brother's wedding, my 6'1 husband was paired with a 5'0 bridesmaid. Needless to say it looked a bit funny), but never if a guest is taller.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: jibby on December 17, 2012, 02:15:49 PM
I almost never wear flats.  Most are very uncomfortable for me.  I would decline to attend if my wearing heels was going to actually be an issue.  Actually, I don't think that I'd want to celebrate the marriage of someone to such a insecure bridezilla so I would just decline.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 17, 2012, 02:18:45 PM
I don't get why tall women are a problem but tall men aren't.

I think the request is ridiculous but I tend to agree with Abby - either comply or don't attend.  I suspect they will have far fewer guests than the expect.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Hmmmmm on December 17, 2012, 02:21:18 PM
I think Abby cited the only two options, either comply or don't go.  Actually, there is a third, switch dresses.

I don't think you can ignore the request.  The couple have obviously decided that appearing taller is more important than attendance or they wouldn't have made such a crazy request. 

I think it is completely wrong of a couple to require specific clothes be worn or heel height, just like I think it is crazy for a couple to believe a sunrise wedding is a great idea.  But the couple of made this a condition of your attending.

Based on your relationship with the couple, you have to decide what your willing to accept. 

So you either wear a different dress and flats, buy a pair of flats, or stay home. 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: diesel_darlin on December 17, 2012, 02:23:05 PM
I don't understand the need to be so picky.

Of course at my wedding everyone wore shoes but me.  ;D
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Friday on December 17, 2012, 02:24:00 PM
I am 5'7".  My husband is 5'4".  I weart 3-5 inch heels daily.

He told one man (and I use the term lightly) who suggested that me being taller was a bad thing to "nut up".

His father suggested to me that I wear flats and slouch at my own wedding..... Ok, it wasn't a suggestion.... he TOLD me to.... I refused....
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Friday on December 17, 2012, 02:25:17 PM
Oh, and, I have high arches.  When I wear flats, my feet go numb.... so Abby is suggesting that I endanger myself or not go?  (if it were me)
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 17, 2012, 02:28:56 PM
Part of the problem I see here is that I don't think it's so black and white as go or don't go.  A lot of times on here, when a question or a suggestion is so inappropriate as to be considered ridiculous, we tell the person something along the lines of to act as if the person can't be serious.  I don't think going in heals would be passive aggressive and would be along the lines of pretending you thought it was a joke.

"Oh, I thought you were just kidding!  I can't imagine me wearing heals being any different than 6 foot Sally, so I thought it was a joke."
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: bopper on December 17, 2012, 02:32:58 PM
The choices are:

1) Wear flats.  You are acquiescing to a ridiculous demand but keeping the bridal party happy.
2) Wear heels. You are not acquiescing to a ridiculous demand but are doing something the bridal party asked you not to.
3) Don't Go.  You are not acquiescing to a ridiculous demand and are keeping the bridal party happy.

These are all false choices because the bridal party is being ridiculous.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 17, 2012, 03:06:21 PM
Part of the problem I see here is that I don't think it's so black and white as go or don't go.  A lot of times on here, when a question or a suggestion is so inappropriate as to be considered ridiculous, we tell the person something along the lines of to act as if the person can't be serious.  I don't think going in heals would be passive aggressive and would be along the lines of pretending you thought it was a joke.

"Oh, I thought you were just kidding!  I can't imagine me wearing heals being any different than 6 foot Sally, so I thought it was a joke."

Pretending that you think their request is a joke and wearing what you have specifically been asked not to is PA.  Heck, if you google Passive aggressive behaviour the first link has this in the very first paragraph '...indirectly resisting requests from others by evading or creating confusion around the issue. Not going along with things. It can either be covert (concealed and hidden) or overt (blatant and obvious).'

It's a ridiculous request but I can't think of a single gracious way to not comply.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 17, 2012, 03:09:48 PM
Part of the problem I see here is that I don't think it's so black and white as go or don't go.  A lot of times on here, when a question or a suggestion is so inappropriate as to be considered ridiculous, we tell the person something along the lines of to act as if the person can't be serious.  I don't think going in heals would be passive aggressive and would be along the lines of pretending you thought it was a joke.

"Oh, I thought you were just kidding!  I can't imagine me wearing heals being any different than 6 foot Sally, so I thought it was a joke."

Pretending that you think their request is a joke and wearing what you have specifically been asked not to is PA.  Heck, if you google Passive aggressive behaviour the first link has this in the very first paragraph '...indirectly resisting requests from others by evading or creating confusion around the issue. Not going along with things. It can either be covert (concealed and hidden) or overt (blatant and obvious).'

It's a ridiculous request but I can't think of a single gracious way to not comply.

Then why do we suggest it in other instances?
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 17, 2012, 03:16:51 PM
I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

ETA - Sorry I misunderstood, I don't think I've seen PA behaviour being advocated here on EHell, I'd be surprised if it was and taken seriously since it's fairly rude.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 17, 2012, 03:19:19 PM
I'd stay home and so would my present.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 17, 2012, 03:22:53 PM
I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

It's not that I specifically do it; I said "we" for a reason.  It often happens on E-Hell where someone (not always the same person) suggests treating the question/suggestion as if it is a joke.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: hobish on December 17, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 17, 2012, 03:25:49 PM
I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

It's not that I specifically do it; I said "we" for a reason.  It often happens on E-Hell where someone (not always the same person) suggests treating the question/suggestion as if it is a joke.

I edited my post you quoted as you were posting.

If you meant 'they' you should have used 'they' using 'we' includes yourself.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 17, 2012, 03:27:36 PM
Part of the problem I see here is that I don't think it's so black and white as go or don't go.  A lot of times on here, when a question or a suggestion is so inappropriate as to be considered ridiculous, we tell the person something along the lines of to act as if the person can't be serious.  I don't think going in heals would be passive aggressive and would be along the lines of pretending you thought it was a joke.

"Oh, I thought you were just kidding!  I can't imagine me wearing heals being any different than 6 foot Sally, so I thought it was a joke."

Pretending that you think their request is a joke and wearing what you have specifically been asked not to is PA.  Heck, if you google Passive aggressive behaviour the first link has this in the very first paragraph '...indirectly resisting requests from others by evading or creating confusion around the issue. Not going along with things. It can either be covert (concealed and hidden) or overt (blatant and obvious).'

It's a ridiculous request but I can't think of a single gracious way to not comply.

Then why do we suggest it in other instances?

I have never heard it suggested. I can't believe any reasonable person would ever take the default action of "joking until proved serious" rather than the other way round - especially when it's something as important as someones wedding day. I might *think* or *hope* they were joking. But if I decided to go, I would wear flats to the wedding and stash a pair of heels in my car/hotel room/large clutch bag rather than the other way round.

Nobody ever gets flamed for taking something seriously that's a joke request. The maximum damage is a slightly sheepish and gullible feeling. However, taking something jokingly that's a serious request might be a little more damaging. Best err on the side of caution. For people you don't know like the back of your hand and when it's something as important as a wedding day, take all requests at face value and then if it turns out it is a joke, laugh along with everyone else.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 17, 2012, 03:49:20 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Shoo on December 17, 2012, 03:54:58 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

Sometimes PA is okay.  It cannot be said to ALWAYS be wrong.  In this case, I think everyone should be PA and wear whatever shoes they want to.  I would not miss a wedding I wanted to attend just because the bride was on a power trip over something this stupid.  What if the groom were my relative, or good friend?  Not attending the wedding would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

This is one of those requests that is just so absolutely ridiculous ...
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: whatsanenigma on December 17, 2012, 03:58:14 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

One other point to consider, though, is that there are heels and there are heels.  I think that with a request like this, if you were planning on wearing a small heel, it would be okay to go ahead and do that, but that it would be PA to wear a really obvious, really high, heel.  If the invitation had said "please wear flats" instead of "please don't wear heels" I might feel differently, but in this case I think the middle ground is important to point out. IMHO of course and as usual.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Winterlight on December 17, 2012, 03:59:44 PM
The choices are:

1) Wear flats.  You are acquiescing to a ridiculous demand but keeping the bridal party happy.
2) Wear heels. You are not acquiescing to a ridiculous demand but are doing something the bridal party asked you not to.
3) Don't Go.  You are not acquiescing to a ridiculous demand and are keeping the bridal party happy.

These are all false choices because the bridal party is being ridiculous.

Agreed. I don't think these people are mature enough to be getting married.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: hobish on December 17, 2012, 04:02:49 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

No, it isn't. Maybe you yourself would wear heels in a passive attempt to get your own way, and maybe you would do it in a hostile or intentionally frustrating manner; but you can hardly say it is the motive across the board for everyone with any sort of certainty. PA has as much or more to do with intent as actions. I can't speak for what your motives might be in such a situation, and neither can you speak for mine.

Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 17, 2012, 04:03:47 PM
I've said it's a ridiculous request, but I'd presume they feel very strongly about it since they put it right there on the invitation. 

If I was close to the couple I'd either ask them if they were serious or inwardly roll my eyes and wear flats, depending on my relationship with them.  If I wasn't close to them I'd probably not attend.

Note, I rarely wear anything under a 4 inch heel.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 17, 2012, 04:08:58 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

Sometimes PA is okay.  It cannot be said to ALWAYS be wrong.  In this case, I think everyone should be PA and wear whatever shoes they want to.  I would not miss a wedding I wanted to attend just because the bride was on a power trip over something this stupid.  What if the groom were my relative, or good friend?  Not attending the wedding would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

This is one of those requests that is just so absolutely ridiculous ...

Yeah but if it were my good friend or relative, I'd just suck it up and wear flats even if I wanted to wear heels. If you want to go to the wedding you can either wear heels or you can wear flats. Rather I be grumpy than the happy couple. Even if their request is ludicrous. I'm sure all of us do things every day to please people, even if their requests are irrational (within reason) and to attend someone's wedding day I love, i'd do it if it was important to them. You don't have to sacrifice going to someones wedding you want to so it's not cutting off your nose to spite your face. You do actually have the option to wear flats and go. You just have to weigh up "how close you are to the couple vs how much you don't want to wear flats." For someone you're not close to, the decision is a lot easier.

Don't get me wrong, this is an absurd request and the couple are being silly but if I truly wanted to be there, i'd just wear flats. In the grand scheme of things, it's not the worst of worst attire requests they could make. The request is idiotic, but I wouldn't wear heels if it's something that was important to them.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 17, 2012, 04:10:01 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

No, it isn't. Maybe you yourself would wear heels in a passive attempt to get your own way, and maybe you would do it in a hostile or intentionally frustrating manner; but you can hardly say it is the motive across the board for everyone with any sort of certainty. PA has as much or more to do with intent as actions. I can't speak for what your motives might be in such a situation, and neither can you speak for mine.

You can't make PA mean what you want it to mean.  The scenario Mental posed is PA. 

I wouldn't wear heels in a passive attempt to get my own way, or in a hostile or intentionally frustrating manner.  I'd either decline, wear flats or speak to the couple before deciding on either.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 17, 2012, 04:17:18 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

No, it isn't. Maybe you yourself would wear heels in a passive attempt to get your own way, and maybe you would do it in a hostile or intentionally frustrating manner; but you can hardly say it is the motive across the board for everyone with any sort of certainty. PA has as much or more to do with intent as actions. I can't speak for what your motives might be in such a situation, and neither can you speak for mine.

You can't make PA mean what you want it to mean.  The scenario Mental posed is PA. 

I wouldn't wear heels in a passive attempt to get my own way, or in a hostile or intentionally frustrating manner.  I'd either decline, wear flats or speak to the couple before deciding on either.


^ Exactly. The above is terribly sensible and it really is that simple. I can't believe some people think they have no option. You do! Either don't go or go and wear flats! I detest the word PA with a passion and it is ridiculously overused on this site but this is the very dictionary definition of it. Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Hmmmmm on December 17, 2012, 04:18:19 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

Sometimes PA is okay.  It cannot be said to ALWAYS be wrong.  In this case, I think everyone should be PA and wear whatever shoes they want to.  I would not miss a wedding I wanted to attend just because the bride was on a power trip over something this stupid.  What if the groom were my relative, or good friend?  Not attending the wedding would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

This is one of those requests that is just so absolutely ridiculous ...

Interesting that you think this was the bride's request.  To me, I thought it sounded much more like the request of a man insecure in his height. 

But even if it is a joint decision by the bridal couple, then your options are to conform to their request or not attend.  If you really want to attend you do as they request.

But honestly, if I had a real reason for not wanting to wear flats (other than thinking they make me look dumpy when wearing more formal clothing) then I'd reach out to the couple or a relative to find out just how strongly they feel about the subject.  If it was a "we'd appreciate everyone wearing flats but it's not going to ruin our wedding if you don't" then I'd do what I wanted.  Sort of like the couple's who want to to with a black and white theme. 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Shoo on December 17, 2012, 04:18:52 PM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 17, 2012, 04:28:52 PM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

As others have suggested, you could talk to them in private politely and ask how set in stone the foot ware request was. If they said that it was very important to them as they were very sensitive about their height, i'd wear flats or I wouldn't go if my preference for shoes trumped my desire to attend. If they said that 'they would prefer people wear flats but heels are fine', then you can go and choose  to wear either (flats would make them extra happy)
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Shoo on December 17, 2012, 04:33:33 PM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 17, 2012, 04:41:08 PM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

But you do understand you don't have to miss the wedding right? You can choose to follow the unreasonable request and thus attend. You have the option. Like I've said, you weigh up your desire to attend the wedding with your desire not to wear flats and make a personal assessment as to what comes out top. It's a painfully painfully simple approach.

What you feel about the request and how you should react to the request are two completely different things.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: onyonryngs on December 17, 2012, 04:48:46 PM
I don't think wearing heels anyway would be PA (why is everything but everything designated PA these days? It makes me crazy). It is a request, not a command. I would just ignore it and do whatever i was going to do anyway. If they had the gall to say something about it, that is when i would leave. I would imagine most people by that point would have other things to be worried about that what is on their guests' feet.

Bolding mine ^

Because in this case wearing heels after the bridal couple has asked you not to is PA.  You have the option of declining to attend.

I think it's only PA if you purposefully change your original shoe plans so that you wear heels in spite of the couple.  But if you originally intended to wear heels, I wouldn't say that was PA. 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: CakeEater on December 17, 2012, 04:57:41 PM
I'm 6 feet tall. I usually do wear flats, but honestly, my standing next to short people makes them feel short. An extra 3 inches would make no difference whatsoever. I wonder if I'd even be invited?

This request smacks of making your guests props in your show. I wouldn't consider it appropriate to ask all my male guests to wear lifts in their shoes so that I didn't feel like a giant person on my wedding day.

If this was a friend, I think I'd decline, regardless of whether I was planning to wear flats or not.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Katana_Geldar on December 17, 2012, 05:05:17 PM
That's ridiculous. I'm not even telling my BMs what shoes to wear or how to do their hair or make up because they're all so different. All they have the same is the dress (which suits them all nicely) and the flowers. Just nice black shoes, and every girl has a pair of those.

But dictating to guests is just too controlling.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Corvid on December 17, 2012, 05:09:51 PM
I agree that this is a completely inappropriate request for the bridal couple to make of their guests.  I would not attend any wedding with such a ridiculous stipulation.  And it's rare I don't wear flats.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: lilfox on December 17, 2012, 05:29:42 PM
I think when it is suggested to treat a ridiculous request/demand as a joke, it is to see if it can be lightly pointed out to the requester that their request is silly or impossible.  Unless this couple only invited people shorter than they are, what they are requesting ultimately is impossible: they will not be the tallest there even if no one wears heels.  If they really care what the photos look like, the couple should stand on a riser!  Problem solved.

Personally I thought Abby's suggestion to "dye an old pair of flats" was ridiculous - how many old dressy shoes are a)dye able, or b)not already too scuffed to wear to a dressy event??
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Shoo on December 17, 2012, 07:55:22 PM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

But you do understand you don't have to miss the wedding right? You can choose to follow the unreasonable request and thus attend. You have the option. Like I've said, you weigh up your desire to attend the wedding with your desire not to wear flats and make a personal assessment as to what comes out top. It's a painfully painfully simple approach.

What you feel about the request and how you should react to the request are two completely different things.

And I'm saying I disagree with you.  There are not only two choices here.  My choice would be to attend the wedding and wear whatever shoes I wanted to.  That is a perfectly acceptable choice, IMO.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: CluelessBride on December 17, 2012, 08:03:12 PM

And I'm saying I disagree with you.  There are not only two choices here.  My choice would be to attend the wedding and wear whatever shoes I wanted to.  That is a perfectly acceptable choice, IMO.

Honestly, if I attended a wedding where the couple specified on the invitation not to wear heels and I saw a guest wearing heals, I might think the couple was being snowflakey, but I'd also think the guest was a jerk.

The couple doesn't rule the world, but it's their wedding. Invited guests should either follow the rules (no matter how silly) or not show up.   
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: LifeOnPluto on December 17, 2012, 08:08:51 PM
It's definitely an unreasonable request.

Just out of curiousity though, if a guest did ignore the direction, and wore high heels, would the Bride be within her rights to refuse that guest entry to the wedding?
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Shoo on December 17, 2012, 08:12:05 PM

And I'm saying I disagree with you.  There are not only two choices here.  My choice would be to attend the wedding and wear whatever shoes I wanted to.  That is a perfectly acceptable choice, IMO.

Honestly, if I attended a wedding where the couple specified on the invitation not to wear heels and I saw a guest wearing heals, I might think the couple was being snowflakey, but I'd also think the guest was a jerk.


You'd pass judgment on someone you knew absolutely nothing about, with circumstances you know nothing about? 

I don't think ignoring a completely irrational and ridiculous request makes anyone a jerk.  But if you're saying you think I'm a jerk because I believe this way, okay.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: CluelessBride on December 17, 2012, 08:19:17 PM

And I'm saying I disagree with you.  There are not only two choices here.  My choice would be to attend the wedding and wear whatever shoes I wanted to.  That is a perfectly acceptable choice, IMO.

Honestly, if I attended a wedding where the couple specified on the invitation not to wear heels and I saw a guest wearing heals, I might think the couple was being snowflakey, but I'd also think the guest was a jerk.


You'd pass judgment on someone you knew absolutely nothing about, with circumstances you know nothing about? 

I don't think ignoring a completely irrational and ridiculous request makes anyone a jerk.  But if you're saying you think I'm a jerk because I believe this way, okay.

Let me clarify: I'd think they were being/acting like a jerk. I don't actually think one action makes a person a jerk. But yes, I think deliberately doing something you know will upset the couple on their wedding day is a jerk move.

But part of it is I don't see it as completely irrational. They are establishing a dress code. That's a very acceptable thing to do for a wedding. So to me, someone showing up in heels instead of flats would be akin to someone showing up to a black tie wedding in a sundress. I know a lot of people that think black tie is an irrational unreasonable dress code for a wedding because not everyone has black tie attire (especially true in my social circle). But if you don't want to meet the dress code, don't go. Don't ignore it because you think it's unreasonable.

Honestly, if a couple is truly important enough to me that I feel like I *have* to be at their wedding and can't decline, I can suck it up and follow their dress code.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 17, 2012, 08:29:47 PM

And I'm saying I disagree with you.  There are not only two choices here.  My choice would be to attend the wedding and wear whatever shoes I wanted to.  That is a perfectly acceptable choice, IMO.

Honestly, if I attended a wedding where the couple specified on the invitation not to wear heels and I saw a guest wearing heals, I might think the couple was being snowflakey, but I'd also think the guest was a jerk.


You'd pass judgment on someone you knew absolutely nothing about, with circumstances you know nothing about? 

I don't think ignoring a completely irrational and ridiculous request makes anyone a jerk.  But if you're saying you think I'm a jerk because I believe this way, okay.

Let me clarify: I'd think they were being/acting like a jerk. I don't actually think one action makes a person a jerk. But yes, I think deliberately doing something you know will upset the couple on their wedding day is a jerk move.

But part of it is I don't see it as completely irrational. They are establishing a dress code. That's a very acceptable thing to do for a wedding. So to me, someone showing up in heels instead of flats would be akin to someone showing up to a black tie wedding in a sundress. I know a lot of people that think black tie is an irrational unreasonable dress code for a wedding because not everyone has black tie attire (especially true in my social circle). But if you don't want to meet the dress code, don't go. Don't ignore it because you think it's unreasonable.

Honestly, if a couple is truly important enough to me that I feel like I *have* to be at their wedding and can't decline, I can suck it up and follow their dress code.

A dress code is completely different than dictating exactly what sort of clothing a person wears.  For example, the couple can dictate Black Tie without discourse but cannot dictate "You will wear a jacket with only three buttons total".  They can say "Semi-Casual" but cannot say "No bracelets!"  The point is, it is acceptable to give a broad category but not so to dictate a fine detail such as what sort of shoes someone wears.  That is where it becomes unreasonable.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: CluelessBride on December 17, 2012, 08:41:17 PM
But "flats" or "no heels" is still pretty open. In fact, it's a lot more open than black tie. And even if it weren't you can decline. Just like you could decline if they were having their wedding on top of Mt. Everest at 3 am on Christmas morning.

Again, you don't have to like the rules (and I actually don't particularly like this one - my dress shoes are almost exclusively heels). But ignoring them is rude. Retaliatory rudeness is still rude.

I'll add that if you are close to the couple, you may be able to politely persuade them to change their minds about the rule. But I just can't understand why breaking it because you don't like it or think its irrational is polite.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: blarg314 on December 17, 2012, 08:49:38 PM
I agree that "dye an old pair of flats" is a piece of advice from a different era. The *only* cases I know of dying shoes are people who bought dyeable shoes specifically to have them dyed to match bridesmaid's dresses.

I'd be tempted to think of the request as a joke, because it's so bizarre.  I'd also be tempted to give an advance present of nicely decorated wedding boxes for the bridal party to stand on.

Personally, if it were a casual acquaintance, I'd decline the invitation (or rescind the RSVP if the instructions came after I had replied). If it were someone close, like a family member, I'd go, but assume the shoe instructions were a joke.

Evil blarg would show up with flats and a bag over her head, and explain that she didn't want her ravishing beauty to make the wedding party feel self conscious.

On second thought, running shoes are flats, right? 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: afbluebelle on December 17, 2012, 08:59:17 PM
http://www.etsy.com/listing/105065435/barefoot-sandles-foot-jewelry-anklet?ref=sr_gallery_5&ga_includes[]=tags&ga_search_query=foot+jewelry&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

Would these be okay if they didn't have the wedding colors?
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Aeris on December 17, 2012, 09:03:19 PM
I might be inclined to call up the HC and tell them that I unfortunately did not own any appropriate* flat shoes, and it was not in my budget to purchase any new ones before the wedding, so in light of that, would they prefer I decline or show up heeled?


*Appropriate = shoes I want to wear with wedding-appropriate dresses. I'm not wearing punky ballet flats with a formal dress. I also wouldn't be shelling out money for appropriately dressy flats that I would never wear again.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: CluelessBride on December 17, 2012, 09:13:30 PM
I agree that "dye an old pair of flats" is a piece of advice from a different era. The *only* cases I know of dying shoes are people who bought dyeable shoes specifically to have them dyed to match bridesmaid's dresses.

As an aside, I thought this too until recently. A few months ago I took an old pair of dyed shoes to a shoe repair store to have them re-dyed slightly darker (to match a bridesmaid's dress incidentally) a was surprised by quite a few things. First the shoe repair store is a hopping place! There were half a dozen people in line when I walked through the door and more joined the line behind me - and they weren't dilly-dallying with the service or anything.  Second, dying shoes is apparently relatively common: 3 of the people in front of me in line also wanted shoes dyed. Third, you can dye shoes bought at the regular shoe store. I always thought you could only dye the special dye-able ones from the bridal stores. But apparently, there are at least some regular shoe materials that can also be dyed. I know because the other 3 dying customers were asked many questions about their shoes and their shoes were much more closely examined than mine. Only 1 of the 3 was turned away as unable to be dyed.

But that said shoes are so cheap now you are probably better off buying a new pair unless you have hard to come by requirements. It cost me $10 to dye my shoes. For $15 I could have bought new matching shoes from the bridal store - I was just too lazy to drive the hour try on shoes.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: andi on December 17, 2012, 09:43:57 PM
Maybe I missed something - but I thought only the bridal party was asked to wear flats. In that case I don't think it's that big of a deal - bridal attendants are often asked to coordinate outfits including shoes

Forgive me if im way off base - if theyre asking all guests I agree its out of line
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Aeris on December 17, 2012, 09:53:06 PM
Maybe I missed something - but I thought only the bridal party was asked to wear flats. In that case I don't think it's that big of a deal - bridal attendants are often asked to coordinate outfits including shoes

Forgive me if im way off base - if theyre asking all guests I agree its out of line

From the letter: "The bride has requested that all female guests not wear heels because they're a short couple."
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 17, 2012, 09:57:47 PM
Maybe I missed something - but I thought only the bridal party was asked to wear flats. In that case I don't think it's that big of a deal - bridal attendants are often asked to coordinate outfits including shoes

Forgive me if im way off base - if theyre asking all guests I agree its out of line

Yeah I thought it was the bridal party at first too. It wasn't until I read through the comments here that I was like "hang on..." and then re-read it.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: andi on December 17, 2012, 10:01:05 PM
Maybe I missed something - but I thought only the bridal party was asked to wear flats. In that case I don't think it's that big of a deal - bridal attendants are often asked to coordinate outfits including shoes

Forgive me if im way off base - if theyre asking all guests I agree its out of line

From the letter: "The bride has requested that all female guests not wear heels because they're a short couple."

Thanks - I went back to reread it too. I think the bride belongs in the shiny sparkling super special snowflake sled.  I think I'd ignore the "request " and wear my regular outfit. If I had to take a picture with the HC I'd sit or take my shoes. In the end - is the bride really going ton walk around due g the reception and check everyone's shoes? 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Erich L-ster on December 17, 2012, 10:35:34 PM
Completely ridiculous. I'll go with the bride dictating flats to the bridal party, for the reason of staging photography (which is an important part of the wedding) to the bride's liking; but guests?

Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Venus193 on December 18, 2012, 04:12:28 AM
In my experience "dressy flats" is an oxymoron unless we're talking about sandals done in gold or silver.  Not to mention that full flats aren't good for your feet, especially if you aren't used to them.

This is special snowflakey and I would decline the invitation.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Emmy on December 18, 2012, 06:02:38 AM
This is definitely an SS request.  However, I figure this is 'their' day and if they would rather have their guests wear flats than what they feel comfortable wearing, I would decline (unless I could come up with a good outfit that fits the requirements).  When I dress up, I am a heels girl and I just feel more attractive and formal in heels.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: msulinski on December 18, 2012, 07:41:43 AM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

This comes off as entitled to me. It is her party, so she gets to make the rules, period. If you don't like them, don't attend. Your comment that people shouldn't have to miss a wedding comes off as entitled.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 18, 2012, 07:56:25 AM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

This comes off as entitled to me. It is her party, so she gets to make the rules, period. If you don't like them, don't attend. Your comment that people shouldn't have to miss a wedding comes off as entitled.

How on earth is that entitled?  It would be different had the guest not been invited at all.  I don't think it's any different than "I shouldn't have to leave a party early just because I don't like one of the guests there."
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: postalslave on December 18, 2012, 08:48:25 AM
Thank you!!!

I brought this up in  the wedding forum and was told I was over reacting!

http://www.weddinghellsbells.com/smf/index.php?topic=116869.0

I find it very amusing that the "etiquette" varies between sites...
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: cheyne on December 18, 2012, 08:48:43 AM
We may be confusing the B&G right to have the wedding they want with the guests right to wear what they want within the dictates of the formality of the event.

The B&G are within their bounds to have the wedding they want with regards to venue, food, guest list, time and place, formality and whether children are included or not.  The B&G are not within bounds to dictate exactly what their guests will wear.  Dictating only "flats" is the same as dictating that no one may wear a dress shorter than 1 inch above the knee.  The formality of the event may be dictated, not the actual clothes the guests wear.

We have become a society that encourages B&G's to  "have the day they want" and "it's their Special Day!" to the point that the bridal party and guests wishes are not only completely disregarded, but the guests are seen as "rude" if they don't toe the line.

*Disclaimer*  I cant' wear anything over a 1.5 inch heel, so usually wear "flats" anyway.  However at 5'8" I am already over average height.  Would the bridal party expect me to slouch all night?
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Shoo on December 18, 2012, 08:56:43 AM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

This comes off as entitled to me. It is her party, so she gets to make the rules, period. If you don't like them, don't attend. Your comment that people shouldn't have to miss a wedding comes off as entitled.

I do not believe she "gets" to make the rules for people attending an event she INVITED them to.  Further, I don't think people have to pretend that a request as ridiculous as this one is even remotely serious.  If this were to happen to me in real life, there is no way I'd think they were serious.  No way.  I wouldn't even consider that it could be, that's how ridiculous it is. 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: auntmeegs on December 18, 2012, 09:01:39 AM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

This comes off as entitled to me. It is her party, so she gets to make the rules, period. If you don't like them, don't attend. Your comment that people shouldn't have to miss a wedding comes off as entitled.

I do not believe she "gets" to make the rules for people attending an event she INVITED them to.  Further, I don't think people have to pretend that a request as ridiculous as this one is even remotely serious.  If this were to happen to me in real life, there is no way I'd think they were serious.  No way.  I wouldn't even consider that it could be, that's how ridiculous it is.

POD.  And I'm floored that some people actually think that this request is reasonable and should be taken seriously. 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 18, 2012, 09:12:14 AM
We may be confusing the B&G right to have the wedding they want with the guests right to wear what they want within the dictates of the formality of the event.

The B&G are within their bounds to have the wedding they want with regards to venue, food, guest list, time and place, formality and whether children are included or not.  The B&G are not within bounds to dictate exactly what their guests will wear.  Dictating only "flats" is the same as dictating that no one may wear a dress shorter than 1 inch above the knee.  The formality of the event may be dictated, not the actual clothes the guests wear.

We have become a society that encourages B&G's to  "have the day they want" and "it's their Special Day!" to the point that the bridal party and guests wishes are not only completely disregarded, but the guests are seen as "rude" if they don't toe the line.

*Disclaimer*  I cant' wear anything over a 1.5 inch heel, so usually wear "flats" anyway.  However at 5'8" I am already over average height.  Would the bridal party expect me to slouch all night?

And oftentimes they are seen as accessories.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 18, 2012, 09:27:02 AM
I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

It's not that I specifically do it; I said "we" for a reason.  It often happens on E-Hell where someone (not always the same person) suggests treating the question/suggestion as if it is a joke.

I edited my post you quoted as you were posting.

If you meant 'they' you should have used 'they' using 'we' includes yourself.

Yes, we does include me because I am a part of E-Hell.  It, however, does not mean only me, which is what your post seemed to imply.  I don't know why you're picking it apart so minutely but please stop.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: jibby on December 18, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
I might be inclined to call up the HC and tell them that I unfortunately did not own any appropriate* flat shoes, and it was not in my budget to purchase any new ones before the wedding, so in light of that, would they prefer I decline or show up heeled?


*Appropriate = shoes I want to wear with wedding-appropriate dresses. I'm not wearing punky ballet flats with a formal dress. I also wouldn't be shelling out money for appropriately dressy flats that I would never wear again.

Bumping this so it can be answered.  I wonder the same thing.  Is it acceptable to call the bride/groom and ask this?  If not, I guess I would just decline. Or spend the money I set aside for their gift on dressy flats that I'll never wear again, and give them a card.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: msulinski on December 18, 2012, 10:03:21 AM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

This comes off as entitled to me. It is her party, so she gets to make the rules, period. If you don't like them, don't attend. Your comment that people shouldn't have to miss a wedding comes off as entitled.

How on earth is that entitled?  It would be different had the guest not been invited at all.  I don't think it's any different than "I shouldn't have to leave a party early just because I don't like one of the guests there."

It comes across as entitled to me because it suggests that the invitee should be able to go to the wedding while ignoring rules specified on that same invitation. I agree that the request is beyond ridiculous.

It is not the same as not leaving the party early because you don't like a guest. Provided you don't get into a conflict with that guest during the party, you are not violating the wishes of the host. Doing something the host explicitly asked you not to do is a lot different.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: msulinski on December 18, 2012, 10:07:07 AM
Why decide to take the non-nice antagonising route and deliberately wear heels when they've asked you not to? Regardless of what you think of the request.

Because they're not the boss of the world?  Because they don't get to MAKE that request.  Well, they can make it, but they don't get to expect people to take it seriously.

But then just don't go to the wedding. If you don't like a request, don't go. If you feel that your want to attend the wedding or that you are close enough to the couple cannot overpower your dislike of wearing flats then by all means don't attend. And vice versa.

My point is that folks shouldn't have to miss a wedding that might be important to them just because the bride makes a ridiculous request.  People don't have to do what she says.  She doesn't get to demand people do whatever she says.  She just doesn't.

This comes off as entitled to me. It is her party, so she gets to make the rules, period. If you don't like them, don't attend. Your comment that people shouldn't have to miss a wedding comes off as entitled.

I do not believe she "gets" to make the rules for people attending an event she INVITED them to.  Further, I don't think people have to pretend that a request as ridiculous as this one is even remotely serious.  If this were to happen to me in real life, there is no way I'd think they were serious.  No way.  I wouldn't even consider that it could be, that's how ridiculous it is.

The host gets to make the rules. This has always been the case. If you invite people to your home and ask them not to smoke inside and to take off their shoes, you would expect them to honor this, right? And if they violated this request, you would be within your rights to ask them to leave, right?

The only difference here is that you think this particular request is ridiculous (so do I, for the record). Others might think your hypothetical shoe removal request is ridiculous too. Of course, of you felt this strongly about the absurdity of the request, you can decline the invitation.

As far as taking it serious, I can see someone showing up in heels if that person truly thought it was a joke. If, however, you know the request is serious, think it is ridiculous, and decide to pretend you thought the request was a joke, you are just being dishonest.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Sophia on December 18, 2012, 10:34:31 AM
Someone mentioned that they thought wearing heels would be retaliatory rudeness.  I think wearing your ordinary wedding shoes would be fine.  (Basically ignoring the ridiculous request)  Dragging out the 6" platforms because of the request, that would be rude.

You know, if someone was that concerned about guests wearing heels they should have had the wedding outdoors in the grass.  Then they could have added something like "Part of the wedding/reception will be outdoors on the grass, so flats are encouraged". 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: acicularis on December 18, 2012, 01:17:36 PM
What an absurd request.

Let's turn it around --would it be Ok for the bridal party to insist that all women wear heels, not flats, if they don't think flats are dressy enough for their wedding?
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: msulinski on December 18, 2012, 01:51:42 PM
What an absurd request.

Let's turn it around --would it be Ok for the bridal party to insist that all women wear heels, not flats, if they don't think flats are dressy enough for their wedding?

I think getting down to the point of specifying individual pieces of clothing is ridiculous, but I suppose it is within their right. Your example would probably sit better with most people, though, as it is in relation to the dress code formality level, which is within etiquette to specify.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: cheyne on December 18, 2012, 02:34:13 PM
We are addressing two different etiquette aspects here. 

The first has to do with the hosts dress code.  According to etiquette, there are four dress codes.  White tie, black tie, semi formal (or informal) and casual.  Each of these has different requirements as to the formality of dress.  A host is allowed to dictate the formality of the event they are hosting, but is not allowed to dictate the specific forms of clothing worn by attendees, i.e. length of dress, jewelry, hairstyle, height of heels.  So a host who tries to tell their guests how to specifically dress is not following etiquette and is therefore "rude".

The second has to do with what one does when one receives an invitation that dictates a specific form of dress.  Since the hosts have no say in what guests wear as to the specifics of dress, it is not rude for a guest to decide that they will wear what they want as long as the formality of the event is adhered to.  Now we all know that rel@tionships have a lot more involved than etiquette, so this is where deciding for yourself whether to adhere to the hosts wishes,  or not, or decline the invite comes in.  It is not rude or PA to wear what you wish to a hosted event as long as you conform to the formality set forth by the hosts.

*The only exception to this that I can find is if the [church, temple, mosque] has rules that shoulders, hair etc... must be covered while in the house of worship.

All "yous" general.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 18, 2012, 02:37:48 PM
We are addressing two different etiquette aspects here. 

The first has to do with the hosts dress code.  According to etiquette, there are four dress codes.  White tie, black tie, semi formal (or informal) and casual.  Each of these has different requirements as to the formality of dress.  A host is allowed to dictate the formality of the event they are hosting, but is not allowed to dictate the specific forms of clothing worn by attendees, i.e. length of dress, jewelry, hairstyle, height of heels.  So a host who tries to tell their guests how to specifically dress is not following etiquette and is therefore "rude".

The second has to do with what one does when one receives an invitation that dictates a specific form of dress.  Since the hosts have no say in what guests wear as to the specifics of dress, it is not rude for a guest to decide that they will wear what they want as long as the formality of the event is adhered to.  Now we all know that rel@tionships have a lot more involved than etiquette, so this is where deciding for yourself whether to adhere to the hosts wishes,  or not, or decline the invite comes in.  It is not rude or PA to wear what you wish to a hosted event as long as you conform to the formality set forth by the hosts.

*The only exception to this that I can find is if the [church, temple, mosque] has rules that shoulders, hair etc... must be covered while in the house of worship.

All "yous" general.

These are my thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: LeveeWoman on December 18, 2012, 02:54:55 PM
What an absurd request.

Let's turn it around --would it be Ok for the bridal party to insist that all women wear heels, not flats, if they don't think flats are dressy enough for their wedding?

I don't know where people get the idea that heels are the only formal or dressy option. I cannot wear them at all but I have many flats that are sufficient. For me, demanding I wear heels would be the same as demanding that I come in a wheel chair because I cannot walk in them.

This brings me back to some earlier posts from Ehellions who wrote that women who are accustomed to wearing heels would find it painful--if not impossible--to wear flats.

Again, if I got such an invitation, my gift and I would stay home.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: hobish on December 18, 2012, 03:29:56 PM
We are addressing two different etiquette aspects here. 

The first has to do with the hosts dress code.  According to etiquette, there are four dress codes.  White tie, black tie, semi formal (or informal) and casual.  Each of these has different requirements as to the formality of dress.  A host is allowed to dictate the formality of the event they are hosting, but is not allowed to dictate the specific forms of clothing worn by attendees, i.e. length of dress, jewelry, hairstyle, height of heels.  So a host who tries to tell their guests how to specifically dress is not following etiquette and is therefore "rude".

The second has to do with what one does when one receives an invitation that dictates a specific form of dress.  Since the hosts have no say in what guests wear as to the specifics of dress, it is not rude for a guest to decide that they will wear what they want as long as the formality of the event is adhered to.  Now we all know that rel@tionships have a lot more involved than etiquette, so this is where deciding for yourself whether to adhere to the hosts wishes,  or not, or decline the invite comes in.  It is not rude or PA to wear what you wish to a hosted event as long as you conform to the formality set forth by the hosts.

*The only exception to this that I can find is if the [church, temple, mosque] has rules that shoulders, hair etc... must be covered while in the house of worship.

All "yous" general.

Beautiful.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 18, 2012, 03:59:46 PM
I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

It's not that I specifically do it; I said "we" for a reason.  It often happens on E-Hell where someone (not always the same person) suggests treating the question/suggestion as if it is a joke.

I edited my post you quoted as you were posting.

If you meant 'they' you should have used 'they' using 'we' includes yourself.

Yes, we does include me because I am a part of E-Hell.  It, however, does not mean only me, which is what your post seemed to imply.  I don't know why you're picking it apart so minutely but please stop.

Well this is rather disingenuous and unnecessary, if you'd quoted my entire post you would have included the edit I made almost immediately and certainly almost a day before you posted this.

'I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

ETA - Sorry I misunderstood, I don't think I've seen PA behaviour being advocated here on EHell, I'd be surprised if it was and taken seriously since it's fairly rude.'

Making one suggestion towards clarity is hardly picking your post apart minutely.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 18, 2012, 04:14:26 PM
I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

It's not that I specifically do it; I said "we" for a reason.  It often happens on E-Hell where someone (not always the same person) suggests treating the question/suggestion as if it is a joke.

I edited my post you quoted as you were posting.

If you meant 'they' you should have used 'they' using 'we' includes yourself.

Yes, we does include me because I am a part of E-Hell.  It, however, does not mean only me, which is what your post seemed to imply.  I don't know why you're picking it apart so minutely but please stop.

Well this is rather disingenuous and unnecessary, if you'd quoted my entire post you would have included the edit I made almost immediately and certainly almost a day before you posted this.

'I have no idea why you do what you do, it's not something I'd do.

ETA - Sorry I misunderstood, I don't think I've seen PA behaviour being advocated here on EHell, I'd be surprised if it was and taken seriously since it's fairly rude.'

Making one suggestion towards clarity is hardly picking your post apart minutely.

I missed the ETA, my apologies.  I quoted what was already quoted; I didn't erase anything.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Katana_Geldar on December 18, 2012, 05:01:36 PM
The only time I would specify anything in terms of dress would be if it was required of the venue. Like a boat, for instance.

We don't even have a dress code on our invites, but then were both very laid back.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 18, 2012, 05:48:54 PM

I missed the ETA, my apologies.  I quoted what was already quoted; I didn't erase anything.
No worries :)
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: flowersintheattic on December 18, 2012, 07:08:01 PM
Completely ridiculous. I'll go with the bride dictating flats to the bridal party, for the reason of staging photography (which is an important part of the wedding) to the bride's liking; but guests?

I'm a short woman and married a man who is a good foot taller than me. For my wedding, I did ask that my bridesmaids (the shortest of whom is a good five inches taller than me) to wear low heels (nothing over 2 inches) and flats, so that there wouldn't be as big of a height difference between me and everyone else in the wedding party.

That said, I have no idea why the height of the guests would matter. Is the couple planning on taking pictures with each of them individually?
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: CakeEater on December 18, 2012, 08:55:03 PM
I've been thinking more about it, and I think it's similar to asking female guests not to wear makeup so the bridal party looks better by comparison. I would ignore that request, and if I wanted to wear heals, I would ignore this request as well, because they are both equally rude and ridiculous.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: AngelBarchild on December 18, 2012, 10:44:25 PM
Doesn't this clearly fall under "your house your rules"? It's their party, and they can make any rules they want, your option as a guest is to follow their rules or not go.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: ClaireC79 on December 19, 2012, 02:45:35 AM
To me this is no different from say a 'black and white' wedding, where they ask all guests to only wear black or white - I may think it's ridiculous but I'd either go with the request or not go, not think 'well that's stupid. I like wearing hot pink (or even this grey will be ok - it's the two together)
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Venus193 on December 19, 2012, 07:11:11 AM
It's not even easy to dance in completely flat shoes; it throws off your center of gravity.  Of course I could also be making an Interesting Assumption that there will be dancing at the wedding.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: msulinski on December 19, 2012, 08:05:02 AM
We are addressing two different etiquette aspects here. 

The first has to do with the hosts dress code.  According to etiquette, there are four dress codes.  White tie, black tie, semi formal (or informal) and casual.  Each of these has different requirements as to the formality of dress.  A host is allowed to dictate the formality of the event they are hosting, but is not allowed to dictate the specific forms of clothing worn by attendees, i.e. length of dress, jewelry, hairstyle, height of heels.  So a host who tries to tell their guests how to specifically dress is not following etiquette and is therefore "rude".

The second has to do with what one does when one receives an invitation that dictates a specific form of dress.  Since the hosts have no say in what guests wear as to the specifics of dress, it is not rude for a guest to decide that they will wear what they want as long as the formality of the event is adhered to.  Now we all know that rel@tionships have a lot more involved than etiquette, so this is where deciding for yourself whether to adhere to the hosts wishes,  or not, or decline the invite comes in.  It is not rude or PA to wear what you wish to a hosted event as long as you conform to the formality set forth by the hosts.

*The only exception to this that I can find is if the [church, temple, mosque] has rules that shoulders, hair etc... must be covered while in the house of worship.

All "yous" general.

Well, you can consider the hosts' request rude, but that doesn't mean you get to ignore it. As I see it, a host can come up with any random request he/she wants. If an invited guest finds that he/she cannot or will not comply, then that guest is free to pass on the invitation.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: cheyne on December 19, 2012, 12:55:06 PM
Actually, I can ignore it and I am not rude to do so because the hosts have no legitimate etiquette ground to stand on.  A host saying, "It's my special day and that's how I want it" is not valid under the terms of etiquette.

*If anyone here can cite an etiquette expert that says that hosts are allowed to dictate the clothing a guest wears (in regards to heel height, dress length, hairstyle, jewelry etc) I would like to see it.  If one exists, I will bow to the etiquette mavens knowledge.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: msulinski on December 19, 2012, 01:00:36 PM
Actually, I can ignore it and I am not rude to do so because the hosts have no legitimate etiquette ground to stand on.  A host saying, "It's my special day and that's how I want it" is not valid under the terms of etiquette.

*If anyone here can cite an etiquette expert that says that hosts are allowed to dictate the clothing a guest wears (in regards to heel height, dress length, hairstyle, jewelry etc) I would like to see it.  If one exists, I will bow to the etiquette mavens knowledge.

Well, you can ignore it, but then you are the one being rude. Hosts can dictate anything they want.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: cheyne on December 19, 2012, 01:04:48 PM
Actually, I can ignore it and I am not rude to do so because the hosts have no legitimate etiquette ground to stand on.  A host saying, "It's my special day and that's how I want it" is not valid under the terms of etiquette.

*If anyone here can cite an etiquette expert that says that hosts are allowed to dictate the clothing a guest wears (in regards to heel height, dress length, hairstyle, jewelry etc) I would like to see it.  If one exists, I will bow to the etiquette mavens knowledge.

Well, you can ignore it, but then you are the one being rude. Hosts can dictate anything they want.

Do you have a source for that?  I have been looking all over the 'net and can't find one etiquette expert who says that "Hosts can dictate anything they want." 
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Kiwichick on December 19, 2012, 03:19:01 PM
Actually, I can ignore it and I am not rude to do so because the hosts have no legitimate etiquette ground to stand on.  A host saying, "It's my special day and that's how I want it" is not valid under the terms of etiquette.

*If anyone here can cite an etiquette expert that says that hosts are allowed to dictate the clothing a guest wears (in regards to heel height, dress length, hairstyle, jewelry etc) I would like to see it.  If one exists, I will bow to the etiquette mavens knowledge.

Well, you can ignore it, but then you are the one being rude. Hosts can dictate anything they want.

Do you have a source for that?  I have been looking all over the 'net and can't find one etiquette expert who says that "Hosts can dictate anything they want."

I'd be interested in seeing a source that says a host can't set rules for their party.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 19, 2012, 03:38:25 PM
Actually, I can ignore it and I am not rude to do so because the hosts have no legitimate etiquette ground to stand on.  A host saying, "It's my special day and that's how I want it" is not valid under the terms of etiquette.

*If anyone here can cite an etiquette expert that says that hosts are allowed to dictate the clothing a guest wears (in regards to heel height, dress length, hairstyle, jewelry etc) I would like to see it.  If one exists, I will bow to the etiquette mavens knowledge.

Well, you can ignore it, but then you are the one being rude. Hosts can dictate anything they want.

Do you have a source for that?  I have been looking all over the 'net and can't find one etiquette expert who says that "Hosts can dictate anything they want."

I'd be interested in seeing a source that says a host can't set rules for their party.

They can set rules for their party, but that doesn't mean it is OK for the rules to be rude.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 19, 2012, 04:17:05 PM
A wedding is a private party. Hypothetically, if the Happy Couple felt that strongly about an absurd rule, they could turn people away at the door for not adhering to it. There is no 'right' of anyone to enter if the couple don't want people there who don't follow a certain requirement.

We all agree that the rule is ridiculous. There seems to be a unanimous consensus on this. Why there appears to be some disagreement over whether some would decline or some would go anyway but wear heels regardless of the request is because we don't know how strongly the couple feel about the 'no heels' rule. To put a spin on it, to those who say they would go and wear heels anyway, what if you had (hypothetically) heard that the rule was really important to the couple and that it would really upset them to see guests taller than them? Would you still go and wear heels? Would you go and wear flats or would you decline?

If I sincerely hand on my heart knew that something would upset someone (however irrational and stupid I thought the request was), I would adhere to it to attend a wedding I wanted to go to. If I felt so strongly that the absurdity should not be tolerated or it was an expense/burden/huge detriment to myself or my proximity to the couple didn't outweigh my desire to wear what I wanted, I just simply wouldn't go. And that isn't just specific to this wedding situation, it goes for all walks of life.

I'm guessing the disagreement in this thread is because we don't really know how set in stone this rule is. It could merely be a preference or something that's really important to the couple. I think it would be sensible for a guest to ask around and thus gauge the seriousness of the request beforehand. If I wasn't sure beforehand, myself personally would always take the safe (and just to be nice for the sake of being nice! because flats to heels isn't such a huge deal to *me* option) rather than defect as my default option. If the couple wasn't so close to me and I would really be uncomfortable in flats, I just wouldn't go.

You can still think something is ridiculous and still be okay with adhering to it (obv unless it is immoral, illegal etc.. etc..) They're not mutually exclusive emotions. If it *is* important to you to wear heels as you don't feel happy or comfortable in flats, then why not simply politely ask the happy couple beforehand for guidance? You can never go wrong in life by asking if you are unsure.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: hobish on December 19, 2012, 04:45:00 PM
A wedding is a private party. Hypothetically, if the Happy Couple felt that strongly about an absurd rule, they could turn people away at the door for not adhering to it. There is no 'right' of anyone to enter if the couple don't want people there who don't follow a certain requirement.

We all agree that the rule is ridiculous. There seems to be a unanimous consensus on this. Why there appears to be some disagreement over whether some would decline or some would go anyway but wear heels regardless of the request is because we don't know how strongly the couple feel about the 'no heels' rule. To put a spin on it, to those who say they would go and wear heels anyway, what if you had (hypothetically) heard that the rule was really important to the couple and that it would really upset them to see guests taller than them? Would you still go and wear heels? Would you go and wear flats or would you decline?

If I sincerely hand on my heart knew that something would upset someone (however irrational and stupid I thought the request was), I would adhere to it to attend a wedding I wanted to go to. If I felt so strongly that the absurdity should not be tolerated or it was an expense/burden/huge detriment to myself or my proximity to the couple didn't outweigh my desire to wear what I wanted, I just simply wouldn't go. And that isn't just specific to this wedding situation, it goes for all walks of life.

I'm guessing the disagreement in this thread is because we don't really know how set in stone this rule is. It could merely be a preference or something that's really important to the couple. I think it would be sensible for a guest to ask around and thus gauge the seriousness of the request beforehand. If I wasn't sure beforehand, myself personally would always take the safe (and just to be nice for the sake of being nice! because flats to heels isn't such a huge deal to *me* option) rather than defect as my default option. If the couple wasn't so close to me and I would really be uncomfortable in flats, I just wouldn't go.

You can still think something is ridiculous and still be okay with adhering to it (obv unless it is immoral, illegal etc.. etc..) They're not mutually exclusive emotions. If it *is* important to you to wear heels as you don't feel happy or comfortable in flats, then why not simply politely ask the happy couple beforehand for guidance? You can never go wrong in life by asking if you are unsure.

If someone was going to be really and truly upset at my choice of footwear i would probably not attend, and would probably limit my interaction with them at all. I do not have time in my life for that kind of petty drama. I am not trying to be mean or snarky; i'm serious. If someone is that easily upset over minor details that have so little to do with them we are not going to get along well in general. We're just not. And as i have said before - that is ok, not everyone has to be or is meant to be friends.

Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tilt Fairy on December 19, 2012, 04:56:56 PM
A wedding is a private party. Hypothetically, if the Happy Couple felt that strongly about an absurd rule, they could turn people away at the door for not adhering to it. There is no 'right' of anyone to enter if the couple don't want people there who don't follow a certain requirement.

We all agree that the rule is ridiculous. There seems to be a unanimous consensus on this. Why there appears to be some disagreement over whether some would decline or some would go anyway but wear heels regardless of the request is because we don't know how strongly the couple feel about the 'no heels' rule. To put a spin on it, to those who say they would go and wear heels anyway, what if you had (hypothetically) heard that the rule was really important to the couple and that it would really upset them to see guests taller than them? Would you still go and wear heels? Would you go and wear flats or would you decline?

If I sincerely hand on my heart knew that something would upset someone (however irrational and stupid I thought the request was), I would adhere to it to attend a wedding I wanted to go to. If I felt so strongly that the absurdity should not be tolerated or it was an expense/burden/huge detriment to myself or my proximity to the couple didn't outweigh my desire to wear what I wanted, I just simply wouldn't go. And that isn't just specific to this wedding situation, it goes for all walks of life.

I'm guessing the disagreement in this thread is because we don't really know how set in stone this rule is. It could merely be a preference or something that's really important to the couple. I think it would be sensible for a guest to ask around and thus gauge the seriousness of the request beforehand. If I wasn't sure beforehand, myself personally would always take the safe (and just to be nice for the sake of being nice! because flats to heels isn't such a huge deal to *me* option) rather than defect as my default option. If the couple wasn't so close to me and I would really be uncomfortable in flats, I just wouldn't go.

You can still think something is ridiculous and still be okay with adhering to it (obv unless it is immoral, illegal etc.. etc..) They're not mutually exclusive emotions. If it *is* important to you to wear heels as you don't feel happy or comfortable in flats, then why not simply politely ask the happy couple beforehand for guidance? You can never go wrong in life by asking if you are unsure.

If someone was going to be really and truly upset at my choice of footwear i would probably not attend, and would probably limit my interaction with them at all. I do not have time in my life for that kind of petty drama. I am not trying to be mean or snarky; i'm serious. If someone is that easily upset over minor details that have so little to do with them we are not going to get along well in general. We're just not. And as i have said before - that is ok, not everyone has to be or is meant to be friends.



Exactly. If I thought it was too much, I'd decline. If the pettiness was ridiculous, I'd decline. I just wouldn't go and wear heels if they were that much on edge about it. Save myself and them a headache and stay at home.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Tea Drinker on December 19, 2012, 05:02:20 PM
Something else occurs to me: I wear flats by choice anyhow (partly for medical reasons, but the relevant point is that I won't be in shoes with more than an inch of heel). My girlfriend also tends to wear flats, but she's five inches taller than I am (which puts her a bit above average height for a woman). And there are women significantly taller than that. Is it reasonable for the bride and groom to select their wedding guests based on their height in bare feet?

If not, it seems a bit silly to insist that a woman who is five feet one inch tall wear flats to avoid looking taller than the bride, even though there are likely to be wedding guests significantly taller in flats than that woman would be in six-inch heels. (I know "don't wear heels that increase your height to more than five feet four" would look even weirder on the invitation, even if that's what they're really after.) If the issue is partly that the groom is bothered by feeling shorter than female guests, is he also going to be bothered by male guests who are 8-12 inches taller than he is?

That said, I probably wouldn't make a fuss, just quietly make a note that these people have standards for their friends that might not fit well with how I live, and send my regrets.

Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: CluelessBride on December 19, 2012, 05:12:43 PM
Is it reasonable for the bride and groom to select their wedding guests based on their height in bare feet?


I think etiquette allows you to invite or not invite whoever you want - regardless of the reason. But it doesn't protect your relationship from consequences and fall out over arbitrary rules. And of course you couldn't decide to invite only half of a social unit because one member was under the height limit and the other was over the limit.

Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: gellchom on December 19, 2012, 05:19:10 PM
As I posted on the wedding forum, I agree that this is ridiculous.  I would be laughing my head off if I got an invitation like that.  (I love the post above about the sparkly special snowflake sled.)

What's wrong with being short, anyway?  You're short, you're short -- that's who's getting married.  Why is it important to be taller than your guests?  If you were ugly, would you ask your friends not to wear makeup?  If you're heavy, would you ask them to wear unflattering clothes?   If you're broke, would you ask them not to wear real jewelry or outfits that cost more than $50?  (And isn't this sort of an insult to your short guests -- the implication that short = unattractive?)

That said, I agree with the posters who said that although the request is silly, inappropriate, and arguably even rude, that does not give guests a free pass to be retaliatorily rude -- i.e., to attend but deliberately ignore the request, stupid and inappropriate though it may be.  You don't get to punish people for their etiquette blunders.

I'm 5'1", ALL my nice shoes have heels, and I would not enjoy complying -- but if I attended the wedding, I would, the same as you suck it up and wear a costume or tuxedo/black suit if that's what is requested even if you hate wearing costumes or black tie.  The fact that those are etiquette-sanctioned requests and this is not does not change the guests' duty to be polite and comply if they attend.

It's moronic, entitled, and inconsiderate, but it's not like they're asking them to bring a freshly killed puppy.  The bride needs to get over herself, but so do the guests.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Mental Magpie on December 19, 2012, 06:31:32 PM
I think many of disagree about whether wearing heels anyway would be rude. Also, it depends on whether the no high heels was a request or an attendance requirement (ie "Please dot wear high heels" or "No high heels.")
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: Iris on December 20, 2012, 01:18:16 AM
I find this request ridiculous, but I would also consider it rude to just ignore the request and wear heels.

My thinking is that it's on a par with asking people to remove their shoes before entering your house (in my culture). To me, it is irritating and vaguely insulting, but my choices are to either remove my shoes or not enter the person's house. I don't get to just walk in in my shoes just because I think it's a stupid rule. The hosts obviously don't think it's a stupid rule or they wouldn't have it. I think the wedding is the same.

Personally if my heel height was more important to the HC than my presence then I would assume that obviously we weren't as close as receiving an invitation to their wedding would imply and simply not attend or send a gift. However, I really can't see myself being friends with someone who gets this hung up about things.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: MariaE on December 20, 2012, 03:10:55 AM
I find this request ridiculous, but I would also consider it rude to just ignore the request and wear heels.

That's my opinion as well.

I've been trying to figure out what I would do, which was easier if I turned the situation around. Imagine the invitation said "Guests must wear high heels". The thing is, I literally can't wear high heels. It's not a matter of not wanting to, it's a matter of having a handicap which makes it physically impossible for me to just stand in heels - forget all about walking.

I'm assuming this is somebody close to me, where I'd actually want to go to the wedding (because otherwise I'd obviously just give my regrets), and thus they'd be close enough for me to call them up and explain my situation. Hopefully they'd tell me to come even though I had to wear flats, but if not - well, that would tell me quite a bit about how they view our friendship and I would act accordingly.

What I wouldn't do - and what I in fact find very rude - would be to just ignore the request, and just turn up in flats without clearing it first.
Title: Re: Bridal Party Dictating Shoes
Post by: gellchom on December 20, 2012, 04:09:08 PM
This silly request doesn't seem that different to me than instructions to write a page for a memory book, decorate a quilt square, sing a song to the bride and groom, wear a costume or special color, and so forth that people sometimes ask of their guests in the belief that it will make their wedding !!!!super fun and extra special!!!!  (Actual effect: like being in day camp.)  It's too much, and I roll my eyes, but if I'm going to attend, I just do it, and I think that's the polite and gracious thing to do.

This topic raises the meta-question: if a host goes too far with requests (but not so far as to be truly offensive, like the freshly killed puppy request), what is the duty of polite guests?  Are they excused from gracious compliance with hosts' plans and requests because the hosts were wrong to request it?

In my opinion (and again, I stress that this only applies to things that are not matters of conscience), no, guests aren't excused if they are able to comply.  You either comply or don't attend, and you don't criticize them.  You don't get to punish or instruct them by rebelling.