Etiquette Hell

A Civil World. Off-topic discussions on a variety of topics. Guests, register for forum membership to see all the boards. => Time For a Coffee Break! => Topic started by: workingmum on December 27, 2012, 04:18:08 AM

Title: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: workingmum on December 27, 2012, 04:18:08 AM
When you read a book at 14, you fall in love with the story. When you read the same book at 22, you fall in love with the characters. When you read that same book at 36, you cry....

The book in question? Shogun

How it changed for me? :

When you are 14, it is a sweeping tale of feudal Japan with a bit of a love story thrown in

When you are 22, itís a beautiful love story set against the back drop of feudal Japan

When you are 36, its the tragic inevitability of an impossible love set against the backdrop of an ancient culture capitulating  in the face of foreign influence

How have books changed for you over the years?

Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Giggity on December 27, 2012, 07:16:58 AM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: bonyk on December 27, 2012, 07:30:18 AM
Diary of Anne Frank -- when I read it as a teen/pre-teen the Peter/Anne relationship was the main idea of the book, and it was almost romantic. 

Also agree with Anne Rice.  I loved the Mayfair Witches as a teen.  I decided to reread the books a few years ago, and wow -- what crap!
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: hobish on December 27, 2012, 08:14:58 AM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

Oh my goodness, yes. Heinlein's young adult novels, too.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Thipu1 on December 27, 2012, 09:16:15 AM
Hermann Hesse's work.

When I read them in college, I thought they were wonderful.  I tried again lately and got a nasty surprise.  I had never noticed the xenophobia and racism in them.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: kajunchick on December 27, 2012, 09:31:47 AM
For me, it was There's a Boy in the Girls' Bathroom by Louis Sachar, I think. Reading it as a kid, it was just a funny book, but I read it again a few years ago. As a mother, my heart aches for that little boy and his parents.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Hillia on December 27, 2012, 01:57:36 PM
Catch-22.  When I read it in junior high, it was about adults having these sometimes tragic, sometimes hilarious adventures.  When I read it again in my 40's, it was about children - the characters are mostly in their early 20's - pushed into an impersonal war machine and struggling to make it out the other side.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: magicdomino on December 27, 2012, 01:58:29 PM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

Oh my goodness, yes. Heinlein's young adult novels, too.

Agreed.  Podkayne of Mars encouraged my interest in science fiction because it wasn't just some boy and his space ship.  I loved it.  Years later, I got a copy, thinking that I would give it to a teenaged girl.  Fortunately, I first read it again.  Never mind the swampy colony on Venus, we have colonies both there and on Mars, yet have never had a female spaceship pilot (or any other officer higher than stewardress, from what I could tell).  Teenaged Podkayne plans to become that first female spaceship pilot; she has the brains and has been taking the appropriate courses.  But, after helping in the ship-board nursery, she decides babies are cute and she wants to be a pediatric nurse.  Nothing against pediatric nurses, but this is a 180 degree turnaround -- Podkayne and her brother are on the trip in the first place because five fetuses stored by her parents were accidently "hatched" and Podkayne certainly wasn't impressed by all those infant siblings.  Later, the relative who was escorting Podkayne and brother chews out their mother for concentrating on her work instead of her children, even though they got in trouble on his watch.   ::)
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Tea Drinker on December 27, 2012, 02:01:17 PM
One I don't understand: Tom Holt's humorous fantasy novels. Fifteen years ago I found them funny. I picked up the first one, Expecting Someone Taller, to reread some months ago, and it was a very weird experience. I could see where the jokes where, but I didn't laugh once, I may have smiled a time or two.

This is separate from what a friend of mine calls the Suck Fairy, which sneaks around and adds various forms of bigotry to the books we loved as children. There was nothing wrong with this book, there was just nothing in particular right about it either. ("Suck Fairy" is my friend Jo's name for it.)
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Morrigan on December 27, 2012, 02:20:20 PM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

And Laurell K Hamilton.  Although the last might just be because her writing went downhill as I grew older.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: rose red on December 27, 2012, 02:22:25 PM
Judy Blume's Forever.  When I was young, it was really romantic and "grown up."  I reread it about a year ago and I hate all the characters, including the parents.  Only the sister was OK.

A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.  As a youngster, I thought the dad was so fun and thought the mom should lighten up.  Now I understand and identify with the mom, and think the dad is a weak deadbeat.  Fun doesn't put food on the table.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 27, 2012, 02:29:08 PM
"The Giving Tree" I loved as a kid, when the tree was just being loving and generous.

As an adult it was an irritating book about a codependent tree and an entitled kid.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: RebeccainGA on December 27, 2012, 03:01:11 PM
I'm rereading the "Wheel of Time" for the first time in a few years, and even though I read them as a teenager, and as new ones came out, I'm finding that I have a lot more understanding of some of the characters. When I was younger, it was about the adventures. Now, it's about the characters.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: PeterM on December 27, 2012, 03:44:10 PM
"The Giving Tree" I loved as a kid, when the tree was just being loving and generous.

As an adult it was an irritating book about a codependent tree and an entitled kid.

I still like The Giving Tree, though now it's just because the tree ends up happy after a long, truly crappy life. It has the happiest ending it possibly could, short of re-writing the whole thing. Kinda like when Odysseus' dog dies after twenty years of neglect, but it's okay because at least he got to see Odysseus one last time. But of course Odysseus's prolonged absence wasn't his own fault in the first place.

Crap, now I'm tearing up. Argos, that was the dog's name. And you know what, Odysseus should've gone to him. I don't care if would've blown his cover, he was already planning to kill everyone anyway. Bah.

Back to The Giving Tree. The Rainbow Fish has pretty much the same basic message, but it appalls me.  The fish is oh so pretty with its rainbow scales, and the other fish are jealous so it learns to share by giving each of the other fish one of its scales. So apparently the moral of the story is that if you have something others want, you have to share it with them, even if that means tearing off pieces of your body. And the book is not only popular, it's been turned into a whole series.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: MariaE on December 27, 2012, 03:53:44 PM
Wuthering Heights - loved it when I first read it at age 16. I didn't think I was a moody and emo teenager, but I stand corrected at this evidence.

I reread it at age 22 - so only 6 years later!!! - and absolutely hated it. I wanted to take Cathy and Heathcliff and smack their heads together.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: NestHolder on December 27, 2012, 04:46:00 PM
When I read Pride and Prejudice as a teenager, I loved the romance.  In my thirties I loved the comedy.  Nowadays, I treasure the little moments where Jane Austen reveals her claws!
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: PastryGoddess on December 27, 2012, 07:24:53 PM
I'm rereading the "Wheel of Time" for the first time in a few years, and even though I read them as a teenager, and as new ones came out, I'm finding that I have a lot more understanding of some of the characters. When I was younger, it was about the adventures. Now, it's about the characters.

I'm working my way through them again and I'm a bit more impatient with the characters than I was as a teen
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Winterlight on December 27, 2012, 07:39:26 PM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

And Laurell K Hamilton.  Although the last might just be because her writing went downhill as I grew older.

Comparing her early work to her later stuff is PAINFUL. She got rid of her editor, and it shows.

I did have one of those moments with Laura Ingalls Wilder's Little House series. I still love them, but there are a couple of scenes that as an adult make me stop and say, "Wow, that was racist."
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: finecabernet on December 27, 2012, 08:09:26 PM
"Gone with the Wind." As a kid I thought for sure Rhett would get over it and come back to Scarlett. Now that I'm an adult I see that they were in a horribly dysfunctional relationship and that they never should have gotten together.

Also, I never saw the racism in it until I got older; now it's disturbing.

Re Wuthering Heights, I thought that Cathy and Heathcliff were meant to be and cruelly separated. Now I see that Heathcliff was an emotionally damaged sociopath and that Cathy was in a co-dependent relationship with him, and couldn't escape him.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: PastryGoddess on December 27, 2012, 08:26:15 PM
Can you imagine this thread in 10 or 20 years and readers will be discussing Harry Potter or Twilight or the Hunger Games :) I'm sure I'm missing more series and authors, but those were the only ones I could think of
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Enkidu on December 28, 2012, 01:53:54 AM
For me, it was There's a Boy in the Girls' Bathroom by Louis Sachar, I think. Reading it as a kid, it was just a funny book, but I read it again a few years ago. As a mother, my heart aches for that little boy and his parents.

Me too! There were tears in my eyes when I reread it as an adult and got to the part where the parents push for removing the creative, effective school counselor in order to buy every classroom a computer. I found it a sad but true commentary on what we as a society prioritize.

Then again, it also made me think about the difference a caring adult can make in the life of a child, and made me imagine Bradley Chalkers all grown up, and still having a special place in his heart for Carla.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: MerryCat on December 28, 2012, 01:58:40 AM
When I read Pride and Prejudice as a teenager, I loved the romance.  In my thirties I loved the comedy.  Nowadays, I treasure the little moments where Jane Austen reveals her claws!

This and the humor has always been my favorite part of Austen! I think that people who see Austen's works only as romance novels, and compare her to modern romance writers are kind of missing the point. Not that there's anything wrong with a little fluffy, light romance. We all need a little brain-candy once in a while. But Austen's works are more than that.

Back on topic, I find a lot of Enid Blyton's works pretty hard to read these days. I know that they've been bowdlerized heavily to make them less sexist/racist/etc, but they're still just not as amazing as I remember.

Here's another one - I used to love the Little Women books as a girl. But when I re-read them recently, I found that I didn't like or sympathize with the characters nearly as much as I used to do. By contrast, when I went back to the Little House on the Prairie books, I found myself really appreciating for the first time how hard and hand-to-mouth their lives really were. Actually, it may have been the fact that I went back to LW right after re-reading LHOTP that changed my feelings for it. I found it a bit hard to see the Marches as poor when they owned their own house, had steady income, and don't have to eat just biscuits and boiled potatoes for supper. And the fact that Meg had fifty dollars to spend on silks, when Ma was worried about spending a few cents for candy on the train kind of cemented that for me. Intellectually, I realize that it's all relative and that you can be poor without being almost destitute as the Ingalls' were.  But going straight from one series to the other, when you haven't read either in years, was a really jarring experience. I may have to try Little Women again in a few years, when I've had my 'palate cleansed', do so speak.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: CakeEater on December 28, 2012, 04:11:43 AM
On Enid Blyton - I read a bit of one of my childhood books of hers the other day, where they sent a 9-year-old off on a bus and train to relatives she'd never met, and had no idea how to get there. "oh, just ask at the station'. That obviously made perfect sense to me as a child.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Cricket on December 28, 2012, 06:32:07 AM
JRR Tolkien - Loved the Hobbit and Lord of the rings books when I was a young teenager. I started to read the Hobbit again last year to refresh my memory and see if it was suitable for my 9yo. I found it juvenile and patronising. I couldn't read more than a few pages. I love science fantasy and many books over the years have touted new authors as the next Tolkien. I now feel that it's almost an insult to do so!
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Giggity on December 28, 2012, 06:56:22 AM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

And Laurell K Hamilton.  Although the last might just be because her writing went downhill as I grew older.

Is she the one whose characters can't actually cover any physical distance because they keep stopping every 20 feet to have sex? Or is that Anita Blake?
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Betelnut on December 28, 2012, 08:59:53 AM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

And Laurell K Hamilton.  Although the last might just be because her writing went downhill as I grew older.

Is she the one whose characters can't actually cover any physical distance because they keep stopping every 20 feet to have sex? Or is that Anita Blake?

Anita Blake is the name of the character in one of Laurell Hamilton's series.  And yes, nothing happens because the characters are having sex all the time.  Her last one was a bit better on this score so I am hoping that she has worked her way out of that rut.  Yes, I still read them but long for the earlier stories and plots.  You know, the books where something happens.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: bloo on December 28, 2012, 09:14:37 AM
When I read Pride and Prejudice as a teenager, I loved the romance.  In my thirties I loved the comedy.  Nowadays, I treasure the little moments where Jane Austen reveals her claws!

This...so this! Just how I felt in my evolution of re-reading.

I know this isn't a novel, per se, but I grew up with the Calvin & Hobbes comic strip (debuting in newspapers when I was 12). I loved it and would laugh hysterically while reading it as a kid and teenager. As I had kids and watched them grow up (only 17 & 14 right now) I find myself TOTALLY identifying with Calvin's parents and am still laughing hysterically but from a different perspective!

Loved the D*ck Francis novels and they turned me into a bit of an Anglophile but when I revisit them (and I still do) they are so formulaic. I love Michael Crichton but feel the same way about his books.

Now that my daughter is a teenager, I have a different perspective on my fave book (mentioned in another thread) Coming Home. It came out before my daughter existed and my viewpoint on the main protagonist's decisions has changed over the years. I guess I've turned into an 'old mom'!  :)
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: #borecore on December 28, 2012, 09:28:36 AM
My two favorite Annes (Frank and Shirley). Read their books in the last few months and was shocked by how cute and sweet they both are, and how ordinary.

Anne Frank really does seem like such a typical, universal teenager. Her relationship with her mom is much more poignant to me now than her relationship with Peter. And that Mrs. van Daan is a riot.

Anne Shirley seems like just about the best girl ever (instead of a terrible troublemaker!), though I still don't get why it took her so long to forgive Gilbert. My biggest change, though, is in seeing Marilla (the free Google books version is a bad scan that usually spells it Manila) as a wonderful character still growing up through taking on a child. What a wonderful parent!
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Winterlight on December 28, 2012, 09:35:47 AM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

And Laurell K Hamilton.  Although the last might just be because her writing went downhill as I grew older.

Is she the one whose characters can't actually cover any physical distance because they keep stopping every 20 feet to have sex? Or is that Anita Blake?

She also wrote the Merry Gentry series, which someone online nicknamed "boinking her way to the throne." The first book was interesting worldbuilding, the rest devolved into bad p*rn.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Just Lori on December 28, 2012, 09:46:00 AM
This is not a book (and I apologize in advance for the thread drift), but a few months ago we were channel surfing and caught "Sixteen Candles," which was one of THE popular teen movies when I was a teen.  I completely related to the parents.  I cried when the dad realized he forgot his daughter's birthday.  I hyperventilated when the kids trashed the home during the party.

I guess I'd better not watch "Ferris Bueller" any time soon, or I'll be worked up over the car.  Who's going to pay for that!?!
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Morrigan on December 28, 2012, 10:08:26 AM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

And Laurell K Hamilton.  Although the last might just be because her writing went downhill as I grew older.

Is she the one whose characters can't actually cover any physical distance because they keep stopping every 20 feet to have sex? Or is that Anita Blake?

Anita Blake is the name of the character in one of Laurell Hamilton's series.  And yes, nothing happens because the characters are having sex all the time.  Her last one was a bit better on this score so I am hoping that she has worked her way out of that rut.  Yes, I still read them but long for the earlier stories and plots.  You know, the books where something happens.

I stopped reading them at Cerulean Sins.  Thankfully.  I tried to read a couple of the later ones, and just couldn't.  Which makes me sad, since I was in love with Jean-Claude.  But she's just mutilated the series.

Back on topic, I enjoyed Kelley Armstrong and Kim Harrison's series (Women of the Otherworld and Rachel Morgan series, respectively).  Now that I'm older, I love them.  They're much more interesting now that I'm actually an adult (I started reading them as a teen, when just a couple books were published in each series) and are everything I like in a good paranormal book.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Winterlight on December 29, 2012, 11:14:09 AM
Barbara Michael's Ammie, Come Home. I read it in grad school and loved it, and was recently rereading it when I hit the line, "There are women you seduce, and women you rape..." And stopped cold and said, "WHAT!!!" That really jarred me. I'm surprised that I missed it the first time around, but yeah. That wasn't a fun moment. 
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: violinp on December 29, 2012, 11:21:46 AM
Wuthering Heights - loved it when I first read it at age 16. I didn't think I was a moody and emo teenager, but I stand corrected at this evidence.

I reread it at age 22 - so only 6 years later!!! - and absolutely hated it. I wanted to take Cathy and Heathcliff and smack their heads together.

I hated Wuthering Heights from the first time I read the book at 18. Unfortunately, it was for school, and I had to argue about why it was not a sweet romance.  ::)
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: violinp on December 29, 2012, 11:31:49 AM
One of my favorite books, How Green Was My Valley. I didn't realize two characters had played scrabble until I was a grown woman...and I'd been reading it for 5 years, and was reading on the level of a senior in high school when I started reading it.  ::) at myself. Also, I now appreciate more the narrator having somewhat misogynist ideas and getting knocked down a peg or two by a woman.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: VorFemme on December 29, 2012, 12:40:01 PM
Piers Anthony and Anne Rice got a lot worse when I was no longer a teenager.

And Laurell K Hamilton.  Although the last might just be because her writing went downhill as I grew older.

She's probably a "read once" - possibly with a glass of wine and a chocolate or two...but rereading them (especially the later ones) is not going to be the best idea.  I suppose you could have two glasses of wine the second time around and three the third time - but it seems a way to to destroy your liver and your mind quite rapidly.

Jean Auell's Earth's Children series is somewhat the same - except the first two or three books you'd only need a glass or two of wine (very thick books - one glass wouldn't last unless you were a page at a glance reader).  Once you get to The Plains of Passage and The Shelters of Stone, you need a bottle of wine AND chocolates.  Plus notes on where to skip the "extraneous s3x & violence"...I figured that they did "it" pretty much the same way that "we" do, only on furs & piles of duff instead of mattresses with cotton sheets.  It's not like any new body parts have evolved since then...

(Thanks to another eHellion for the reminder of where the extraneous bits take over the plot development!)
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Winterlight on December 29, 2012, 12:53:11 PM
I liked the first three when I read them in HS, but haven't reread them in years. I tried Plains of Passage and got bored, and from what I've heard, the other two are even worse.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: magicdomino on December 29, 2012, 01:56:33 PM
I suspect Jean Auel lost interest herself, thus the long gap between Shelters of Stone and the previous books.  The last two were written only by popular (and possibly publisher) demand.  This is true of many other authors of popular characters that they are screaming sick of.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: snowflake on December 29, 2012, 03:38:04 PM
I'll agree with nearly every author I "grew out of." 

Though I just re-read something I hadn't seen for nearly 30 years.  Walsh's Fireweed

That is one beautiful book.  When I was a tween it was about dropping the parents, dodging bombs and having romance and adventure at the same time. 

Now I realize it's about two children who are in that awkward teen part of life (and dealing with problematic family circumstances.)   They take advantage of the chaos of war to try and take control of their lives just like most teens want to.  They have to come to grips with the fact that no one is really in control - no matter what you expect at that age.  Absolutely BEAUTIFUL.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Lynn2000 on December 29, 2012, 03:55:54 PM
Great thread! It made me think of the Little House on the Prairie books also. I loved them when I was a little kid, like in elementary school; I loved all the detailed descriptions of how things were done back in the olden days--making cheese, gathering provisions for winter, that kind of thing. I reread them again when I was about 20 and realized how terribly hard their lives were, and how young kids were doing such dangerous things, because everyone had to help out or you wouldn't survive. All the close calls they had--like when Pa was stranded in the snow trying to get home from town, and Ma finally latches the door shut for the night, resigning herself to the fact that he isn't coming home (at least that night). That could have been the end of their pioneer days, right then.

And now, honestly, a lot of "pioneer" stories that I loved as a kid for the adventure just make me angry, parents dragging their kids off into the wilderness seemingly on a lark and without much preparation. It seems so irresponsible to me now.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: scansons on December 29, 2012, 04:14:50 PM
All of Vonnegut.  Thought he was fantastic.  Then after college, he just got depressing and needlessly crude. 
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: BB-VA on December 29, 2012, 04:46:33 PM
"On the Beach" by Nevil Shute changed for me over the years.  When I was a teenager, I felt terrible that Dwight went out to sea at the end, leaving Moira to die alone.  (If you haven't read the book, EVERYBODY dies at the end, and the last chapter or two are about how each character chooses to end his/her life - they were dying of radiation sickness due to nuclear war.) But reading it as an adult, I realized that he was being true to himself and the "not for self, but for country" that he had lived his life by.

I changed so much that when the miniseries was done and Dwight DOES return before the end, I was furious.

Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: scansons on December 29, 2012, 05:09:42 PM
"On the Beach" by Nevil Shute changed for me over the years.  When I was a teenager, I felt terrible that Dwight went out to sea at the end, leaving Moira to die alone.  (If you haven't read the book, EVERYBODY dies at the end, and the last chapter or two are about how each character chooses to end his/her life - they were dying of radiation sickness due to nuclear war.) But reading it as an adult, I realized that he was being true to himself and the "not for self, but for country" that he had lived his life by.

I changed so much that when the miniseries was done and Dwight DOES return before the end, I was furious.

I love that book.  "A Town Like Alice" too.  What a great writer.  But I can see how you were upset.  I was too as a teenager.  I should really reread that one. 
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: BB-VA on December 29, 2012, 07:26:56 PM
One thing about books written in the past is that they should be judged by the period in which they were written. 

"Little House", "GWTW", "Huckleberry Finn" and "To Kill a Mockingbird" - these have been decried as racist and someone has even rewritten "Huckleberry Finn", taking out all of the N words.  But is that fair?  Each should be read with the realization that the authors did live in different times with different attitudes.  Many schools have banned "Mockingbird" because it is racist, but I believe it should be taught with an emphasis on the time it was set in and that we do NOT want these times back.  The people who decry it as racist, IMO, are missing the point.  The point is that the law should apply to all, fairly and justly.  If we do not remember the racism and injustice of those times, doesn't that increase the possibility that they could return?  We need to remember injustices and not let them happen again. 

 I have NEVER understood the parts in Louisa May Alcott's books where characters are supposedly disgraced because they work for a living.  Did people in her world all live off of inheritances or trust funds or something?

Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Winterlight on December 29, 2012, 07:43:38 PM
I'm not going to scream that they were all racist, but it's good to point out what today would be problematic so kids understand both what has changed and why.

I have NEVER understood the parts in Louisa May Alcott's books where characters are supposedly disgraced because they work for a living.  Did people in her world all live off of inheritances or trust funds or something?

Because in her time period (pre-Civil War-1882) and place ladies either didn't work, or they they had very genteel jobs as dressmakers or something else low-paying. If you were "in trade" by which I mean any kind of merchant, that was considered dirty work. Being a lawyer or a doctor was considered a better class of job. However, you needed to be able to study for either of those professions, which meant money. You had a better chance of getting somewhere if you were poor as a merchant.

Ideally, you'd be a gentleman/lady of leisure. OTOH, when you look at those characters in her books, she tends to be harder on them.

Alcott herself earned her living, both as a writer and a seamstress/governess.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: VorFemme on December 29, 2012, 07:44:02 PM
I suspect Jean Auel lost interest herself, thus the long gap between Shelters of Stone and the previous books.  The last two were written only by popular (and possibly publisher) demand.  This is true of many other authors of popular characters that they are screaming sick of.

I heard that an ex-DH wanted "his share" of the money since the book was written while they were married and it took a while to get THAT worked out - I have no idea if he co-wrote, edited, or just "inspired" her.  But she did seem to have lost something over the long delay - skill? Inspiration?  Pacing?  Writing something besides "Ayla & Jondalar" either fighting or making up?
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: JeanFromBNA on December 29, 2012, 08:40:04 PM
Not a book, but the Sex And The City television series, and the two movies  I watched the original series on HBO, and enjoyed most of the episodes.  Now that I've seen reruns, I think that many of the characters are self-absorbed, self-centered, and shallow.  I still think that some scenes that show how the characters have grown are outstanding.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: nuit93 on December 29, 2012, 11:59:12 PM
Judy Blume's Forever.  When I was young, it was really romantic and "grown up."  I reread it about a year ago and I hate all the characters, including the parents.  Only the sister was OK.

A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.  As a youngster, I thought the dad was so fun and thought the mom should lighten up.  Now I understand and identify with the mom, and think the dad is a weak deadbeat.  Fun doesn't put food on the table.

I was about to post about A Tree Grows in Brooklyn also--when I read it as a kid, I identified more with Francie and her feelings growing up.  Reading it as an adult, I was more drawn to her mother.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: alkira6 on December 30, 2012, 12:27:19 AM
Just about any Harlequin romance. I devoured those as a teen - bout them by the boxfull at yardsales and rummage sales.  I picked up a few a couple of years ago and promptly wanted to throttle every female main character in each book.  Maybe there was a period of time in the late 90's early 2000's where romance was redefined as a single mother (and always a single mother) being more attractive and more of a "real" woman than the woman with no kids that their love interest was already dating. Just the attitudes that these women had of being more "deserving" of attention/love/romance burned me up.  Not to mention the older Harlequin's where every woman is a virgin and falls in love because of "forceful, manly s3x ie borederline noncon s3x". How is this romantic?

On the other hand, rereading Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale" gives me something new to think about every time I read it. I went from  :-\ and  :o and  :'( in my teens to debating current policy of reproductive freedom vs religious rights and how lack of participation in government will create a government that has no concern for you.

The Harry Potter books - I loved the first five and still do, the last book was about camping and was kind of phoned in.  I still think that Harry would not be anywhere near as functional as a human being after his upbringing his first 11 years and the additional trauma would not help.

Shakespear - I learned to pick out the naughty bits as I got older, so it's all funnier to me.

Sherlock Holmes - I did not like the novels when I was younger but after watching the absolutely wonderful and borderline cracky BBC series that started a couple of years ago, I went back and reread a couple (Hounds of the Baskervilles, A Study in Scarlett, A Sign of the Four)  and I appreciate the detail and induction work that Shelock does.

I used to love piers anthony as a preteen, now all of his books just make me roll my eyes. Anne Rice is the same except for the Beauty series, and that has always appealed because of specialist interests.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Jocelyn on December 30, 2012, 09:39:09 AM
 

I heard that an ex-DH wanted "his share" of the money since the book was written while they were married and it took a while to get THAT worked out - I have no idea if he co-wrote, edited, or just "inspired" her.  But she did seem to have lost something over the long delay - skill? Inspiration?  Pacing?  Writing something besides "Ayla & Jondalar" either fighting or making up?
[/quote]
Perhaps he assisted in research for all the scrabble scenes? >:D
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: snowflake on December 30, 2012, 03:29:47 PM
Great thread! It made me think of the Little House on the Prairie books also. I loved them when I was a little kid, like in elementary school; I loved all the detailed descriptions of how things were done back in the olden days--making cheese, gathering provisions for winter, that kind of thing. I reread them again when I was about 20 and realized how terribly hard their lives were, and how young kids were doing such dangerous things, because everyone had to help out or you wouldn't survive. All the close calls they had--like when Pa was stranded in the snow trying to get home from town, and Ma finally latches the door shut for the night, resigning herself to the fact that he isn't coming home (at least that night). That could have been the end of their pioneer days, right then.

And now, honestly, a lot of "pioneer" stories that I loved as a kid for the adventure just make me angry, parents dragging their kids off into the wilderness seemingly on a lark and without much preparation. It seems so irresponsible to me now.

I was the same way.  I read the whole series initially when I was 7 and thought that it was a fabulous adventure and sort of wanted to give up school so I could plow all day.  I re-read them when we visited some of the sites about 5 years ago and was shocked to realized that at times I was reading about them going through severe malnutrition.  Wow!  How did I miss that?  I also read some background and found out that Carrie never did recover her health after The Long Winter.  I really felt for Caroline.  How must it have been for her to watch her kids go through that when she was never completely on-board with pioneering to begin with.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Elisabunny on December 30, 2012, 04:51:54 PM
Great thread! It made me think of the Little House on the Prairie books also. I loved them when I was a little kid, like in elementary school; I loved all the detailed descriptions of how things were done back in the olden days--making cheese, gathering provisions for winter, that kind of thing. I reread them again when I was about 20 and realized how terribly hard their lives were, and how young kids were doing such dangerous things, because everyone had to help out or you wouldn't survive. All the close calls they had--like when Pa was stranded in the snow trying to get home from town, and Ma finally latches the door shut for the night, resigning herself to the fact that he isn't coming home (at least that night). That could have been the end of their pioneer days, right then.

And now, honestly, a lot of "pioneer" stories that I loved as a kid for the adventure just make me angry, parents dragging their kids off into the wilderness seemingly on a lark and without much preparation. It seems so irresponsible to me now.

I was the same way.  I read the whole series initially when I was 7 and thought that it was a fabulous adventure and sort of wanted to give up school so I could plow all day.  I re-read them when we visited some of the sites about 5 years ago and was shocked to realized that at times I was reading about them going through severe malnutrition.  Wow!  How did I miss that?  I also read some background and found out that Carrie never did recover her health after The Long Winter.  I really felt for Caroline.  How must it have been for her to watch her kids go through that when she was never completely on-board with pioneering to begin with.

I wondered about the bolded.  Mary was so coddled, and yet reading between the lines in Little Town on the Prairie it was pretty obvious that Carrie was the one who suffered the most.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Jones on December 30, 2012, 05:00:11 PM
When I was a kid, I saw "Mr. Popper's Penguins" as a silly little story about a man who, through a series of accidents, ends up with a funny trained penguin act and has adventures while traveling with them.

As an adult, I see a man who has a bunch of pets he can't afford, his wife helps him come up with a way to do so, she quietly follows him all over the U.S. to help with the act. The children are pulled out of school. Finally, after turning down a huge monetary contract that would make it so his family had food other than beans (their primary staple), he leaves for a couple years to assist in rehabbing the birds to the wild; he doesn't consult his wife, just hollers to her with a wave, and she sighs and takes it. Why can't she go along? Why can't he send the birds off and go back home with his human family? Gah!

If I were Mrs. Popper, Mr. Popper would be a divorced man when he made his way back again.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: iridaceae on December 30, 2012, 06:15:53 PM
Barbara Michael's Ammie, Come Home. I read it in grad school and loved it, and was recently rereading it when I hit the line, "There are women you seduce, and women you rape..." And stopped cold and said, "WHAT!!!" That really jarred me. I'm surprised that I missed it the first time around, but yeah. That wasn't a fun moment.
That doesn't bother me because of the general conversation and talking about how Pat was mixing up the two and Sara's boyfriend noticed this and how severely this jarred him and made him start thinking hard about everything.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Jocelyn on December 30, 2012, 06:25:02 PM
  I really felt for Caroline.  How must it have been for her to watch her kids go through that when she was never completely on-board with pioneering to begin with.
And losing her only son, who is never mentioned in the books, during the Little House on the Prairie period. Not to mention the idea of delivering a baby miles from town, in a house that's roughly the same size as my living room.

If you read LHBW, though, there are some rather questionable parenting practices, such as when Ma braids Mary's and Laura's hair, and then tells them to go ask their aunt (who is just arriving) which she likes better, blond or brown hair. Maybe it was an old joke, but obviously Laura didn't get it- she thought everyone thought brown hair was ugly.
Legend has it that Rose Wilder Lane, who was a rather well-known journalist in her day, edited her mother's books after the first one, to edit out some references like that.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Just Lori on December 30, 2012, 07:12:07 PM
As someone who continues to re-read the LHOTP books to this day, 40 years after I first read them, I am really enjoying the comments in this thread.  I've often thought that Mary was too good to be true in the later books.  She was beautiful, she never thought a mean thought, she was awesome.  Don't worry about that cow, Caroline, we're going to send our Mary to college.  And Laura, you need to go out and get a job teaching kids who are older than you are - and boarding with a certifiably insane lady - so Mary can stay in school.  Yet we never hear Mary say anything like, "Gosh Laura, thanks for paying for 3/4 of my organ and paying for all my school expenses all these years.  And thanks for the Christmas presents.  My gift to you is a letter telling you about all the awesome college stuff you're funding!"

And I'm still not convinced that Almanzo and Laura didn't kiss until after they became engaged.  The real Almanzo was a hottie.  I don't think I'd be able to sit demurely for, oh, three years without at least letting him hold my hand.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Jocelyn on December 30, 2012, 07:49:00 PM
As someone who continues to re-read the LHOTP books to this day, 40 years after I first read them, I am really enjoying the comments in this thread.  I've often thought that Mary was too good to be true in the later books. 
There IS one scene where the sisters are walking on the prairie, and Mary admits that she pretended to be a goody two shoes because it got her all the attention, and that looking back on it, she was ashamed of how she'd manipulated Laura.
I've often wondered if the 'college' were so much about education, as about teaching Mary skills like reading Braille and navigating in the world. That was the era of educating 'exceptional' children in state schools. In that case, it would be a choice between sending Laura, who COULD read and educate herself on her own, and dooming Mary to never again be able to read on her own or walk without a guide, or sending Mary to the 'blind college'.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: nuit93 on December 30, 2012, 10:57:02 PM

And I'm still not convinced that Almanzo and Laura didn't kiss until after they became engaged.  The real Almanzo was a hottie.  I don't think I'd be able to sit demurely for, oh, three years without at least letting him hold my hand.

Wasn't that considered fairly normal in those days?  Or at least, an acceptable level of intimacy to describe in a children's book?
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: MerryCat on December 31, 2012, 01:35:01 AM
As someone who continues to re-read the LHOTP books to this day, 40 years after I first read them, I am really enjoying the comments in this thread.  I've often thought that Mary was too good to be true in the later books.  She was beautiful, she never thought a mean thought, she was awesome.  Don't worry about that cow, Caroline, we're going to send our Mary to college.  And Laura, you need to go out and get a job teaching kids who are older than you are - and boarding with a certifiably insane lady - so Mary can stay in school.  Yet we never hear Mary say anything like, "Gosh Laura, thanks for paying for 3/4 of my organ and paying for all my school expenses all these years.  And thanks for the Christmas presents.  My gift to you is a letter telling you about all the awesome college stuff you're funding!"

And I'm still not convinced that Almanzo and Laura didn't kiss until after they became engaged.  The real Almanzo was a hottie.  I don't think I'd be able to sit demurely for, oh, three years without at least letting him hold my hand.

I know that the books were quite different from the reality of their lives. For example, Laura did work at a hotel at one point, whereas in the books Pa says no daughter of his will ever work in a hotel. There were times when they all had to do "mens' work" to help Pa out in the fields. But in The Long Winter Laura writes that only she worked in the fields, and that Ma was against it. I also remember reading that the differences between Laura's and Mary's personalities were exaggerated in the books to create interest and tension, and that the sisters were more similar than different in real life.

Just Lori, I agree that she may at least have held hands with Almanzo, but of course we can't expect Laura to write about that LOL. I like how she tries to massage away the ten year difference in their ages by being vague about his age.

Going back to these books with an adult's ability to read between the lines gives you a very different view of the Ingalls' lives. Where I once saw it as a grand adventure in the west, I see now the toughness and perseverance of a family struggling through some incredibly grim times. I used to see Ma as kind of a downer, but now I find myself sympathizing more and more with her point of view.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: MariaE on December 31, 2012, 01:42:45 AM
If you're looking for the "real deal" about Laura, I can highly recommend "Laura: The Life of Laura Ingalls Wilder" by Donald Zochert. I'm currently in the middle of rereading it myself :)
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Verloona Ti on December 31, 2012, 07:17:03 AM
Great thread! It made me think of the Little House on the Prairie books also. I loved them when I was a little kid, like in elementary school; I loved all the detailed descriptions of how things were done back in the olden days--making cheese, gathering provisions for winter, that kind of thing. I reread them again when I was about 20 and realized how terribly hard their lives were, and how young kids were doing such dangerous things, because everyone had to help out or you wouldn't survive. All the close calls they had--like when Pa was stranded in the snow trying to get home from town, and Ma finally latches the door shut for the night, resigning herself to the fact that he isn't coming home (at least that night). That could have been the end of their pioneer days, right then.

And now, honestly, a lot of "pioneer" stories that I loved as a kid for the adventure just make me angry, parents dragging their kids off into the wilderness seemingly on a lark and without much preparation. It seems so irresponsible to me now.

I was the same way.  I read the whole series initially when I was 7 and thought that it was a fabulous adventure and sort of wanted to give up school so I could plow all day.  I re-read them when we visited some of the sites about 5 years ago and was shocked to realized that at times I was reading about them going through severe malnutrition.  Wow!  How did I miss that?  I also read some background and found out that Carrie never did recover her health after The Long Winter.  I really felt for Caroline.  How must it have been for her to watch her kids go through that when she was never completely on-board with pioneering to begin with.

I wondered about the bolded.  Mary was so coddled, and yet reading between the lines in Little Town on the Prairie it was pretty obvious that Carrie was the one who suffered the most.

It's been years since I've read the books, but I am still annoyed with Caroline's belief that, because SHE "had her heart set" on having a daughter that's a 'schoolmarm', she had a perfect right to try to cajole, nag, and pout Laura (who loathed everything about teaching children) into becoming a teacher. And bear in mind a school marm back then was pretty much doomed to a celibate life : Many school districts did not ALLOW married women to teach school until well into the 20the century!
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Morrigan on December 31, 2012, 08:24:16 AM

And I'm still not convinced that Almanzo and Laura didn't kiss until after they became engaged.  The real Almanzo was a hottie.  I don't think I'd be able to sit demurely for, oh, three years without at least letting him hold my hand.

Wasn't that considered fairly normal in those days?  Or at least, an acceptable level of intimacy to describe in a children's book?

Actually, no, it wasn't really normal (okay, maybe it was).  What was normal was to have common-law-marraiges because it could be years before a preacher could marry a couple.  It was actually pretty normal for couples to have 'relations' on buggy rides.  To have a bunch of kids before they could get marry.

So it's pretty likely that Almanzo and Laura had at least some form of relations before they got married.

Now, to describe a children's book?  Yeah, that's completely normal!
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: hobish on December 31, 2012, 08:49:01 AM
If you're looking for the "real deal" about Laura, I can highly recommend "Laura: The Life of Laura Ingalls Wilder" by Donald Zochert. I'm currently in the middle of rereading it myself :)

 ;D JUST as i was reading this and wishing there were some adult LHOTP books i read this. Thank you. I think i will upload it to my Kindle tomorrow.

Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: rose red on December 31, 2012, 09:04:26 AM
*snip*

Now, to describe a children's book?  Yeah, that's completely normal!

It's very fascinating to read about things left out of the books.  Laura actually liked Cap before Almanzo started courting her.  What happened later with the school children from Laura's first class (one of them killed his brother, also another student).  Laura seemed to have such an aversion to Reverend Brown that I worry about his adopted daughter while reading the books as an adult.  And The First Four Years was not published until after Rose's death which recounts how the Boasts wanted to trade a horse for Rose.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Just Lori on December 31, 2012, 09:39:45 AM
I'm going to create a LHOTP thread spinoff in the coffee break folder ... I have a feeling there are many other passionate LHOTP fans here. :)
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Jocelyn on December 31, 2012, 10:53:43 AM


Actually, no, it wasn't really normal (okay, maybe it was).  What was normal was to have common-law-marraiges because it could be years before a preacher could marry a couple.  It was actually pretty normal for couples to have 'relations' on buggy rides.  To have a bunch of kids before they could get marry.
That was true in an earlier era, when ministers were circuit riders. But Laura describes having a minister and church in the town, and by the 1880s ministers were common enough that a couple could plan for a wedding, even if it meant going to another town or making arrangements for a minister to come to them.  Justices of the peace were around, too.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 31, 2012, 09:29:42 PM
Not a book, but the last few nights Piratebabe has been a night owl, which means I've been watching some late night Friends.  I was a huge fan of this show when it first came out, had a huge crush on Chandler, though most girls I knew liked Ross and would have liked Joey if he hadn't been such an airhead.  I thought it was hilarious then, but now watching it I find myself laughing at the show more than with it.

The characters have gone from being cool to pathetic.  Ross's neuroses are even less humorous, Chandler's jokes not as funny and Phoebe's airheadedness not as cute and eccentric.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Lynn2000 on December 31, 2012, 09:34:49 PM
The romance novel mentions made me think of all the romance novels I read when I was way too young, like 12. Those big, fat historical ones available by the millions (it seems) on library shelves, with titles like My Brazen Pirate and The Wolf and the Hummingbird or whatever. I used to write these really enthusiastic reviews of them, how they were so romantic and emotional and so forth, but the plots sound just horrible to me now, all about very dubious consent and terribly dysfunctional relationships.  :o Not to knock anyone who likes those romance novels now--I think I just read them at far too young an age and took the wrong ideas from them.

I am happy to report that Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle, which I read recently for the first time in 25 years, is still very enjoyable. Though of course somewhat dated--the moms are all stay-at-home, worrying about dinner and children while the dads work and slip off to their studies after dinner to smoke pipes--almost all of the "cures" Mrs. P-W suggests for badly-behaved children (talking back, selfish, etc.) seem reasonable to me (if comically exaggerated), and not horrible. There's some dry, absurd humor in the books, too, somewhat like Roald Dahl, which I think I appreciate more now.

I have learned through sad experience to avoid a lot of the TV shows and cartoons I loved as a child. :( I adored Tiny Toon Adventures back in the day, but when I recently watched some episodes, I felt they alternated between spastic and boring. Okay, granted, I'm not the target demographic anymore, but I didn't think it would be that bad...
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: PastryGoddess on December 31, 2012, 10:13:30 PM
You know I have to say...Bunicula still works for me after all these years
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on December 31, 2012, 10:28:23 PM
I find that Animaniacs still makes me laugh quite hard, as do the Muppets. :)

When I was younger and read Anne of Green Gables I identified more with Anne of course, but as I've gotten older and read the books, while I still like Anne, I appreciate Marilla a lot more and understand her pov a lot more.  Especially as I have my own kids now and can see how Anne vexed her at times and made her laugh at others with the way she saw the world.

Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Hillia on December 31, 2012, 10:38:26 PM
I am happy to report that Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle, which I read recently for the first time in 25 years, is still very enjoyable. Though of course somewhat dated--the moms are all stay-at-home, worrying about dinner and children while the dads work and slip off to their studies after dinner to smoke pipes--almost all of the "cures" Mrs. P-W suggests for badly-behaved children (talking back, selfish, etc.) seem reasonable to me (if comically exaggerated), and not horrible.

Yes, the non-magical cures are great!  I especially loved the selfishness cure and the answer-backer cure.  One little thing that slipped by me as a child was in the table manners cure - Mrs. Piggle Wiggle sends a pig with beautiful table manners to model them for the child.  The mother is concerned about having a pig live with them, as 'it's a restricted neighborhood, you know'.

'Restricted' back in the day was code for 'housing discrimination' - no Jews or minorities were allowed to purchase homes in the neighborhood; it was written into the sales contracts.  This practice wasn't made illegal until the 60's (I think).
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Winterlight on December 31, 2012, 11:44:14 PM
That is correct, Hillia. Betty MacDonald had a pretty subversive sense of humor and was tweaking people with that line.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Adelaide on January 01, 2013, 12:05:47 AM
When I read Harry Potter as a kid, I was all "Hooray, wizards and magic!" now that I'm an adult I'm kind of struck by the profundity of some of the lessons in there. Of course, I grew up with the books so my view is probably slanted, and they started moralizing quite a bit more toward the end than they did in the first couple of books.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on January 01, 2013, 08:14:30 AM
I started reading HP in college, when my mother lent me the first book and I was hooked!  At first I too was thinking "Oooh wizards and magic!" as I have always enjoyed some good books on magic.  :)  But as I've gotten older I have definitely appreciated a lot of the lessons taught in the books, and treasure quite a few of the quotes from the books and movies.

I read an unofficial guide once, which spoke of the dementors and how they could represent self-destructive, depressing thoughts meant to make a person feel unworthy of love.   That having good memories is quite a strong charm against such nagging thoughts of inadequacy.

That and chocolate always helps when one's feeling down. ;)


Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Jocelyn on January 01, 2013, 09:55:01 AM
I started reading HP in college, when my mother lent me the first book and I was hooked!  At first I too was thinking "Oooh wizards and magic!" as I have always enjoyed some good books on magic.  :)  But as I've gotten older I have definitely appreciated a lot of the lessons taught in the books, and treasure quite a few of the quotes from the books and movies.

I read an unofficial guide once, which spoke of the dementors and how they could represent self-destructive, depressing thoughts meant to make a person feel unworthy of love.   That having good memories is quite a strong charm against such nagging thoughts of inadequacy.

That and chocolate always helps when one's feeling down. ;)

And cats. Don't forget cats! :)

I read that Rowling went through a long spell of depression prior to writing about the dementors. Maybe that's why I find them one of the worst things that happen in fiction, a sort of BTDT. Ranks right up there with scenes where animals and little kids are threatened, for me.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: delabela on January 01, 2013, 11:45:45 AM
You know I have to say...Bunicula still works for me after all these years

I really loved these books!  Especially Howliday Inn!  I'll have to re-read and see if they hold up.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Giggity on January 28, 2013, 06:46:09 PM
The romance novel mentions made me think of all the romance novels I read when I was way too young, like 12. Those big, fat historical ones available by the millions (it seems) on library shelves, with titles like My Brazen Pirate and The Wolf and the Hummingbird or whatever.

Admit it ... you read Kathleen Woodiwiss books, didn't you?

Because, um, me too.

The Wolf and the Dove, Shanna, Ashes in the Wind, A Rose in Winter, Come Love a Stranger, So Worthy My Love ... oh yeah.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 28, 2013, 08:19:49 PM
me three
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Lynn2000 on January 28, 2013, 10:45:31 PM
The romance novel mentions made me think of all the romance novels I read when I was way too young, like 12. Those big, fat historical ones available by the millions (it seems) on library shelves, with titles like My Brazen Pirate and The Wolf and the Hummingbird or whatever.

Admit it ... you read Kathleen Woodiwiss books, didn't you?

Because, um, me too.

The Wolf and the Dove, Shanna, Ashes in the Wind, A Rose in Winter, Come Love a Stranger, So Worthy My Love ... oh yeah.

Crud monkeys! How did you know?? Seriously, my very first romance novel ever was A Rose in Winter. Actually I consider her a good writer, but that may be because she was my first, so it was everyone else I read later whose plots seemed derivative.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: ica171 on January 28, 2013, 10:58:32 PM
The romance novel mentions made me think of all the romance novels I read when I was way too young, like 12. Those big, fat historical ones available by the millions (it seems) on library shelves, with titles like My Brazen Pirate and The Wolf and the Hummingbird or whatever.

Admit it ... you read Kathleen Woodiwiss books, didn't you?

Because, um, me too.

The Wolf and the Dove, Shanna, Ashes in the Wind, A Rose in Winter, Come Love a Stranger, So Worthy My Love ... oh yeah.

Crud monkeys! How did you know?? Seriously, my very first romance novel ever was A Rose in Winter. Actually I consider her a good writer, but that may be because she was my first, so it was everyone else I read later whose plots seemed derivative.

A Rose in Winter is what I refer to as my first crazysauce romance novel. (My first "regular" romance novel was Keating's Landing by Willo Davis Roberts, then my first mainstream novel was Castles by Julie Garwood.) To this day, if I want something crazy and epic and not at all PC, I go to Woodiwiss. Bertrice Small and Rosemary Rogers just don't do it as well for me.
Title: Re: How and when do books change for you?
Post by: Winterlight on January 29, 2013, 09:01:35 AM
The romance novel mentions made me think of all the romance novels I read when I was way too young, like 12. Those big, fat historical ones available by the millions (it seems) on library shelves, with titles like My Brazen Pirate and The Wolf and the Hummingbird or whatever.

Admit it ... you read Kathleen Woodiwiss books, didn't you?

Because, um, me too.

The Wolf and the Dove, Shanna, Ashes in the Wind, A Rose in Winter, Come Love a Stranger, So Worthy My Love ... oh yeah.

Me too. Her and Rosemary Rogers, and Johanna Lindsay and a lot of others. I don't think my parents ever saw what I was reading from the free book rack as a teen, or those would have been tossed.