Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: donnamos2 on January 03, 2013, 12:58:29 PM

Title: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: donnamos2 on January 03, 2013, 12:58:29 PM
I read this today and nearly had a stroke.

In an advice column, a woman was perplexed because she had just received two non-invites to weddings where she hadn't really expected to be invited in the first place. She was asking if this was something new in etiquette, that you not only don't send an invitation, but go to the trouble to confirm the non-invitation.  The advice columnist wrote that this was definitely a breach of etiquette, but linked to a website where they actually gave advice to brides to the contrary:

Explain to them your budget for the wedding and let them know how important they are to you. Example: I would really love for you to be in attendance on such a special day in my life, but because of out tight budget for the wedding, I was not able to invite as many people as I would have liked. But if possible, I would love for you to help me find a dress, look for a shoes, pick a cake, etc..

Oh, and a little tip added to the end: Never flat out say, "You are not invited," but make it clear that there is a reason. If possible, invite them to be a part of the wedding by being a host or hosts. Also, invite them to your wedding shower, if possible.

The ONLY thing that mitigated this horrible advice was the drubbing it was receiving in the comments - the commenters could not believe just how many well-established rules this violated, plus just how hurtful this would be when practiced: "Yeah, you don't get to come, but let's schlep around looking for my dress and buy me a present, too!"  But how many potential brides are going to read the comments?  Headed your way: lots of non-invites for wedding tucked into wedding shower invitations.

Has this happened to anyone here?
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 03, 2013, 01:18:33 PM
Wow - just when you think you've seen it all. I myself would prefer simply not to be invited, than receive something like this. I tend to go with the it's not rude if you don't know about it, or aren't invited, where this approach seems more "in your face" and obvious, and more likely to cause hurt feelings.

I have a friend, who I know, but am not particularly close to.  She is very close with one of my close friends, if that makes any sense.  She recently got married, and I was wasn't invited to the wedding, but my other friend was. Which I was perfectly fine with. Quite frankly, I would have been surprised if I had been invited.

But had she sent out something like the OP describes, it would not have made me feel good at all. I am mature enough to know that they probalby had limited space, and as we aren't that close, I didn't warrant an invite.  I did however, congratulate her on Facebook, and wish them well. 
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Flora Louise on January 03, 2013, 01:28:41 PM

Baboons in the zoo know better than this.  :o
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Sharnita on January 03, 2013, 01:30:39 PM
You know, I could see if somebody was talking as if they were taking it for granted that they were going to be invited and you needed to break it to them that they weren't (thinking a work aquaintance or something)
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: ------ on January 03, 2013, 01:32:13 PM
YOU are not invited, but your gift is. And while you're not invited to share in my joy, you ARE invited to share in the effort and expense of helping me prepare for the wedding, AND while you are not welcome to participate in the celebration or partake in the enjoyment of refreshments, you ARE invited to provide them at your cost and serve them at my fabulous event.

In other words, you're not good enough to participate in my life, except as an unpaid servant.

Yeah. I can see how that would go over really well.  :o
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: bah12 on January 03, 2013, 01:45:39 PM
I can see explaining to someone why they aren't invited if they are asking or assuming that they will be.  I can even see someone saying that they really want to do something for/with the bride or groom for the wedding and having to explain that while they are welcome to do something outside of the wedding if they want, budget constraints do not allow a wedding invitation.

I would not preemptively tell people that they weren't invited or why, nor would I offer them a consolation prize of helping me pick out a dress or coming to a shower in lieu of coming to the wedding.

Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Cat-Fu on January 03, 2013, 02:05:45 PM
In case anyone is curious, the article is here: http://www.ehow.com/how_4962898_tell-someone-not-invited-wedding.html

It also encourages having a B list.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 03, 2013, 02:17:49 PM
Oh thank goodness.  I thought this advice was actually on website of someone who pretended to be an authority on weddings.  This is just a college student coming up with her on rules since she has never learned proper wedding etiquette. 

I wasn't able to see the comments.  I hope someone points her to the wedding bell's site so she can learn some basics on being polite to guests.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Flora Louise on January 03, 2013, 02:20:57 PM
Under the subhead Tips and Warnings, comes this gem, "No matter how nice you may tell someone that she's not invited, she may still be upset." 

Really?
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: miranova on January 03, 2013, 02:31:24 PM
YOU are not invited, but your gift is.

Exactly.

This just happened to me recently.  The bride is as sweet as sweet can be.  Innocent and vulnerable.  Even to VERY bad advice, apparently.  Because I received a Facebook nonvitation to her reception, with the remark that I could still attend the service and a link to the registry information.

I know it is extraordinarily rude, but I also know that she probably did it thinking it was completely in the clear, because she honestly is that naive.  And now that I know that this is actually being given out as advice, it makes it clear that she probably read it and decided that this was the answer to her budgeting woes.

I declined to attend the wedding, but had already attended the shower.

I saw the bride a month or so after the wedding and she was just as friendly and sweet as always....I don't think it even occurred to her that it wasn't polite.  I'm letting it go because I know it wasn't overtly malicious, but if she ever asks why I didn't attend her wedding, I might have to give her the courtesy of the truth so that she doens't make this mistake in the future (well a similar mistake...I guess she can't make the same mistake since she presumably won't have another wedding anytime soon).
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 03, 2013, 02:36:00 PM
I read this today and nearly had a stroke.

In an advice column, a woman was perplexed because she had just received two non-invites to weddings where she hadn't really expected to be invited in the first place. She was asking if this was something new in etiquette, that you not only don't send an invitation, but go to the trouble to confirm the non-invitation.  The advice columnist wrote that this was definitely a breach of etiquette, but linked to a website where they actually gave advice to brides to the contrary:

Explain to them your budget for the wedding and let them know how important they are to you. Example: I would really love for you to be in attendance on such a special day in my life, but because of out tight budget for the wedding, I was not able to invite as many people as I would have liked. But if possible, I would love for you to help me find a dress, look for a shoes, pick a cake, etc..

Oh, and a little tip added to the end: Never flat out say, "You are not invited," but make it clear that there is a reason. If possible, invite them to be a part of the wedding by being a host or hosts. Also, invite them to your wedding shower, if possible.

The ONLY thing that mitigated this horrible advice was the drubbing it was receiving in the comments - the commenters could not believe just how many well-established rules this violated, plus just how hurtful this would be when practiced: "Yeah, you don't get to come, but let's schlep around looking for my dress and buy me a present, too!"  But how many potential brides are going to read the comments?  Headed your way: lots of non-invites for wedding tucked into wedding shower invitations.

Has this happened to anyone here?

Maybe Regionmon's co-worker learned her "etiquette" there.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Bright on January 03, 2013, 02:37:01 PM
The advice columnist wrote that this was definitely a breach of etiquette, but linked to a website where they actually gave advice to brides to the contrary:

I think Prudie was being rather tongue in cheek when she linked to that website. The full text of her reply is the last letter on
http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2013/01/dear_prudence_my_white_boyfriend_said_the_n_word.single.html
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: loopyluna on January 03, 2013, 02:54:17 PM
I got just such a nonvitation a few years back from a high school friend. I wouldn't have batted an eye at not being invited; we went to college in different states and just naturally drifted apart, and I'd only met her husband once. Instead, she sent me an email explaining about her budget and the church size (actually the first communication we'd had in a year). For crying out loud, I understood that our distanced friendship might not mesh with her budget, and I hadn't said a word to her that suggested I expected an invitation. It would have made much more sense for her to just quietly not invite me instead of drawing attention to it.

I was actually planning to send her a token gift from her registry (not trying to fish for an invitation, just something small to show that I wished her well), but the nonvitation sat with me so poorly that I changed my mind. Sending a gift of my own volition without being invited was one thing; sending one because I was "important to her but they just couldn't fit me in at the reception, but I totally would have been invited if they had more money" was something quite different.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 03, 2013, 02:59:42 PM
CRUD MONKEYS! I was just coming here to post the same thing. What's next...special non-invited cards
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Drunken Housewife on January 03, 2013, 03:26:17 PM
Has anyone received a "you're not invited to the wedding" announcement?  See the latest Dear Prudence, the last letter: 

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2013/01/dear_prudence_my_white_boyfriend_said_the_n_word.2.html

Prudence had not heard of this before and found the following appalling advice:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4962898_tell-someone-not-invited-wedding.html#ixzz2DNSh4jR6

How incredibly horrible, to tell someone that they cannot come to your wedding due to space limitations but that they are invited to your shower (to give you a gift), to help you pick out a cake (which they won't get to sample), and that although they can't come to the wedding, they can be a host of the wedding in some way.   Just awful.  That is some of the worst etiquette advice I have ever run across, that eHow Prudence found.

How common is this?  Has anyone encountered it?
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Katana_Geldar on January 03, 2013, 03:33:43 PM
I would only tell someone they had not been invited if they asked me. Before that if they have not got an invite and they know about the wedding, they can work it out.

The closest I have gone is a friend whom we couldn't afford to invite his family. But he's interstate and has young kids, so it was going to be difficult.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: SamiHami on January 03, 2013, 03:45:58 PM
I have never heard of this and wish I still hadn't.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: artk2002 on January 03, 2013, 03:52:27 PM
Already under discussion here (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=123989.0).
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: katycoo on January 03, 2013, 04:27:58 PM
Wow. 
Here, a ceremony only notification/invite (not an invite per se althought sometimes there is a small afternoon tea) is becoming quite common.  No RSVP is required and certainly no gift!  It is merely an acknowledgment that stickybeakers are welcome (think ppl like friends parents, neighbours or church members who are not and would not expect to be invited but who might like to see you walk down the aisle).
I simply can't fathom including registry info with such a notice.

Invites to Kitchen teas/Hens for non-guests are becoming more common, but I HATE this idea personally.
Title: Re: How I Wish This Was A Joke - But It's Not!
Post by: catrunning on January 03, 2013, 04:59:56 PM
I've been on the receiving side of this on a couple of occasions.   The most recent, one of my dh's nieces was getting married. My dh isn't close to this niece or his brother and SIL, and we actually hadn't seen any of them for years.  So when we heard she was getting married,  we certainly didn't expect a wedding invitation.    We did get a facebook communication from SIL saying that they won't be able to invite us to the wedding, but they would really like us to "share in the family's joy" by attending one of the many showers.    She listed the dates/times/themes of four different showers and asked us which ones we would like to receive an invitation to.   

I emailed SIL back, congratulating her on her daughter's marriage and wishing them the best, while also advising her we will not be able to attend any of her showers.    The bride herself emailed me back saying "okay, but here's my registry website".

SIL then called me and told me how rude I was for not attending one of her showers.    I told SIL that etiquette states that you never invite someone to a shower unless they are invited to the actual wedding ** I know work showers are the exception, although I don't agree with that personally, but I don't' let those get to me**.   SIL responded that was old fashioned etiquette and that "modern etiquette" says that it is fine to invite people to showers rather than the wedding.   "It helps hold costs down while allowing more people to participate",  and "people will get hurt if they don't at least get invited to a shower"    So you see, some people out there in the world really think this is OK.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: bloo on January 03, 2013, 06:58:13 PM
CRUD MONKEYS! I was just coming here to post the same thing. What's next...special non-invited cards

The 'No Thanks' cards for the wedding gifts they did not receive from people invited AND non-vited. >:(
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: ------ on January 03, 2013, 07:00:48 PM
I would guess special wedding-themed personalized invoices to send to people charging them a fee for your big event...whether you know them or not, or they're invited or not. You know, just random invoices to send people. Maybe someone will start a collection agency for that.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: miranova on January 03, 2013, 07:23:52 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention, in my case, I had already received a "save the date".  So I got a save the date, then an invitation to a shower, RSVP'd to the shower, then received the nonvite to the wedding reception, with the registry info included.  I kind of think after you've sent save the date out to someone, you've committed to inviting that person!!!
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: blarg314 on January 03, 2013, 07:51:03 PM

This actually strikes me as a very logical process, from the couple's point of view.

From their point of view, their wedding is the most important thing to ever happen. So of course your distant friends, casual acquaintances, coworkers are remote family members are going to be simply devastated they can't come. So you have to break it to them gently.

And of course, they'll be so happy if they're allowed near the wedding, even if they can't attend the event itself. It will be an  honor to attend the shower, or help you pick out shoes, to even just brush at the edges of the day of days!

Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: bloo on January 03, 2013, 07:58:53 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention, in my case, I had already received a "save the date".  So I got a save the date, then an invitation to a shower, RSVP'd to the shower, then received the nonvite to the wedding reception, with the registry info included.  I kind of think after you've sent save the date out to someone, you've committed to inviting that person!!!

I hear about stuff like this and I just have to shake my head in amazement. I mean surely there was someone with a vested in interest in this bride's wedding that could guide her through the process.

I think you handled it as well as you could under the circumstances. Given half a chance I would have a hard time keeping my tongue behind my teeth!


This actually strikes me as a very logical process, from the couple's point of view.

From their point of view, their wedding is the most important thing to ever happen. So of course your distant friends, casual acquaintances, coworkers are remote family members are going to be simply devastated they can't come. So you have to break it to them gently.

And of course, they'll be so happy if they're allowed near the wedding, even if they can't attend the event itself. It will be an  honor to attend the shower, or help you pick out shoes, to even just brush at the edges of the day of days!


This had me laughing out loud. Of course I'd LOVE to bow and scrape for the chance to 'brush the edges of the day of days'.  ;D
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: ------ on January 03, 2013, 08:54:07 PM
Too much royal wedding fever. Everyone thinks they are William & Kate and it's an honor simply to close enough be trampled by one of the horses hooves.  ;) ***


***Kind of just kidding. I adored the royal wedding and have neutral feelings about the royal family. Still, though, it seems like a lot of brides think all the world is going to wait for that coveted invitation with baited breath and if they don't get one, well...disaster.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Otterpop on January 04, 2013, 06:32:27 AM
Too much royal wedding fever. Everyone thinks they are William & Kate and it's an honor simply to close enough be trampled by one of the horses hooves.  ;) ***


***Kind of just kidding. I adored the royal wedding and have neutral feelings about the royal family. Still, though, it seems like a lot of brides think all the world is going to wait for that coveted invitation with baited breath and if they don't get one, well...disaster.

Ha!  LOL'ed at 3am, not polite.  I watched the royal wedding from a remote pub in LA.  Cried my eyes out that the invitation never materialized...NOT!!!  (I choose to believe it got lost in the post...)

A non-invitation glaringly points out that you did not merit.  Bad form.
Title: Re: How I Wish This Was A Joke - But It's Not!
Post by: JenJay on January 04, 2013, 07:06:41 AM
So you see, some people out there in the world really think this is OK.

I can't help but notice that those in favor are the crowd receiving the gifts, whereas the ones doing the would-be buying, not so much. You'd think that'd be a heads-up to those considering issuing the gift-request-non-invitations, but I guess not.  :P
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 04, 2013, 07:20:38 AM
I got just such a nonvitation a few years back from a high school friend. I wouldn't have batted an eye at not being invited; we went to college in different states and just naturally drifted apart, and I'd only met her husband once. Instead, she sent me an email explaining about her budget and the church size (actually the first communication we'd had in a year). For crying out loud, I understood that our distanced friendship might not mesh with her budget, and I hadn't said a word to her that suggested I expected an invitation. It would have made much more sense for her to just quietly not invite me instead of drawing attention to it.

I was actually planning to send her a token gift from her registry (not trying to fish for an invitation, just something small to show that I wished her well), but the nonvitation sat with me so poorly that I changed my mind. Sending a gift of my own volition without being invited was one thing; sending one because I was "important to her but they just couldn't fit me in at the reception, but I totally would have been invited if they had more money" was something quite different.

I hear you. I hate when people feel the need, not just with wedding invites, but everything, to go on and on and on and on and on.  I've been in the same situation, only I simply wasn't invited to the wedding.  Which I was totally OK with.  I don't blame you for not sending any gift, esp since it seems like they went out of their way to make sure you knew WHY you weren't invited.  They seem to have JADEing down to an science! 

Slightly OT, but I work PT in retail, and I've honed my JADEing, or lack thereof, skills. Customers wants to return something, but has no receipt, and its clearly from 3 seasons ago. "I'm sorry, its past 90 days, therefore I am unable to take it back" Or other situations where its simply not necessary to ramble on about stuff the customer really doesn't care about, or needs to know. And it makes me crazy when I hear my co-workers doing just that. Just simply tell them what they need to know, and stop talking.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Winterlight on January 04, 2013, 09:21:39 AM
Oh thank goodness.  I thought this advice was actually on website of someone who pretended to be an authority on weddings.  This is just a college student coming up with her on rules since she has never learned proper wedding etiquette. 

I wasn't able to see the comments.  I hope someone points her to the wedding bell's site so she can learn some basics on being polite to guests.

The author is getting sliced and diced in the comments. Nobody thinks it's good advice.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Flora Louise on January 04, 2013, 09:30:40 AM
I think it would be funny to respond to a non-invitation with "Who are you, again?"
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Twik on January 04, 2013, 09:38:24 AM
You know, I can understand where this is coming from, even thought it's very bad advice. It's about trying to make someone feel "involved" even if they can't come to your wedding. It's part of the "it's rude to tell anyone 'no'!" mentality. She's hoping that the people so treated will feel like guests in everything except actually being there on the day.

It's totally ineffective, of course, and very rude. But I can, alas, see people thinking that this would actually placate someone by sending the message "I can't invite you. But see! I still want to spend time with you doing weddingy things! It's not my fault!"
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: kareng57 on January 04, 2013, 11:37:17 AM
Oh and I forgot to mention, in my case, I had already received a "save the date".  So I got a save the date, then an invitation to a shower, RSVP'd to the shower, then received the nonvite to the wedding reception, with the registry info included.  I kind of think after you've sent save the date out to someone, you've committed to inviting that person!!!


There are actually HCs out there who don't understand how STDs are supposed to work.  They think that you send them to everyone you might eventually like to invite.  Then, months later, they send the real invitations out to the guests that made the "cut".
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: ------ on January 04, 2013, 11:40:53 AM
Oh and I forgot to mention, in my case, I had already received a "save the date".  So I got a save the date, then an invitation to a shower, RSVP'd to the shower, then received the nonvite to the wedding reception, with the registry info included.  I kind of think after you've sent save the date out to someone, you've committed to inviting that person!!!


There are actually HCs out there who don't understand how STDs are supposed to work.  They think that you send them to everyone you might eventually like to invite.  Then, months later, they send the real invitations out to the guests that made the "cut".



How tacky. (!) I wonder what the non-invitee is supposed to do, having saved the date as requested? Sit around wondering what happened to the invitation that was expected? Oh, wait. No, fortunately there is a solution - un-invite them per the *new rules*! Only, you must wait to do that to ensure the guest sends the wedding gift first, no??  ::)

Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Mikayla on January 04, 2013, 12:21:00 PM

This actually strikes me as a very logical process, from the couple's point of view.

From their point of view, their wedding is the most important thing to ever happen. So of course your distant friends, casual acquaintances, coworkers are remote family members are going to be simply devastated they can't come. So you have to break it to them gently.

And of course, they'll be so happy if they're allowed near the wedding, even if they can't attend the event itself. It will be an  honor to attend the shower, or help you pick out shoes, to even just brush at the edges of the day of days!

Don't forget, someone needs to carry the crown and the magic wand!

I think the lesson learned here is that advice columnists are like vendors:  Etiquette isn't generally worth worrying about.   I've seen things from Abby that make my head spin. 
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: m2kbug on January 04, 2013, 12:31:56 PM
I think the lesson learned here is that advice columnists are like vendors:  Etiquette isn't generally worth worrying about.   I've seen things from Abby that make my head spin.

Agreed, but just to point out, the original exclusion article came from eHow, not from Dear Prudence.  Dear Prudence linked to the original article in response to a letter.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Mikayla on January 04, 2013, 12:39:13 PM
Oh sure, I saw that.  But any columnist giving etiquette related advice who links to e-how isn't furthering the cause of etiquette!

I wish I could remember the things I've heard in real life that were traced back to e-how.  I don't even know who comes up with their stuff.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Bright on January 04, 2013, 12:59:36 PM
Oh sure, I saw that.  But any columnist giving etiquette related advice who links to e-how isn't furthering the cause of etiquette!

I wish I could remember the things I've heard in real life that were traced back to e-how.  I don't even know who comes up with their stuff.

She linked to it in order to mock it though and point out what shouldn't be done. She agreed that Don't Save The Date cards are a bad idea.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: nutraxfornerves on January 04, 2013, 01:12:28 PM
Somewhere in one of Miss Manners' books is a letter from a Gentle Reader who got a shower invitation with an added note "I regret space does not permit your attendance."
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Wench on January 04, 2013, 01:14:42 PM
Quote
Too much royal wedding fever. Everyone thinks they are William & Kate and it's an honor simply to close enough be trampled by one of the horses hooves.  ;) ***


***Kind of just kidding. I adored the royal wedding and have neutral feelings about the royal family. Still, though, it seems like a lot of brides think all the world is going to wait for that coveted invitation with baited breath and if they don't get one, well...disaster.

The stupid thing with this kind of this thinking is that Wills & Kate would never behave like that and even if they did behave like this the queen would certainly have something to say about non-invites!

Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 04, 2013, 01:17:00 PM
   It's part of the "it's rude to tell anyone 'no'!" mentality. She's hoping that the people so treated will feel like guests in everything except actually being there on the day.

It's totally ineffective, of course, and very rude. But I can, alas, see people thinking that this would actually placate someone by sending the message "I can't invite you. But see! I still want to spend time with you doing weddingy things! It's not my fault!"

And herein, I think, lies the problem. I think, and I may be generalizing, many people are simply afraid to tell someone no. Or not include someone, or, in the case of kids and sports, not have EVERYONE win a ribbon, trophy, or what have you. Sadly, its part of life that we don't always get what we went, and I know many people who are simply incapable of sucking it up, and get really upset when they don't get their own way, and feel slighted, even when there's no reason they should.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: ------ on January 04, 2013, 01:17:52 PM
Somewhere in one of Miss Manners' books is a letter from a Gentle Reader who got a shower invitation with an added note "I regret space does not permit your attendance."


Oh, man. If I received that "invitation" for my gift only, my reaction would NOT be eHell approved. I'd be tempted to give the bride (or the host, or the person whose idea this was) a shower, alright. Just not the kind she was expecting - one that involved the exterior of her home and a lot of "decorative" paper. From a roll.

Of course, I wouldn't do that. But I'd want to.  >:D
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: wolfie on January 04, 2013, 01:19:15 PM
Somewhere in one of Miss Manners' books is a letter from a Gentle Reader who got a shower invitation with an added note "I regret space does not permit your attendance."

Do you remember Miss manners response?
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: nutraxfornerves on January 04, 2013, 01:30:56 PM
Quote
Do you remember Miss manners response?
I was able to find it on Google Books. It's in Miss Manners' Guide for the Turn-of-the-Millennium.  MM says that the rule about not allowing anyone to hear about an event to which they are not invited is so important, that polite people go to great lengths to be sure it doesn't happen. She finishes by describing the invitation as
Quote
a written version of that school playground taunt "Nyah, nyah! I'm having a party and you can't come!"
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: miranova on January 04, 2013, 01:33:36 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention, in my case, I had already received a "save the date".  So I got a save the date, then an invitation to a shower, RSVP'd to the shower, then received the nonvite to the wedding reception, with the registry info included.  I kind of think after you've sent save the date out to someone, you've committed to inviting that person!!!


There are actually HCs out there who don't understand how STDs are supposed to work.  They think that you send them to everyone you might eventually like to invite.  Then, months later, they send the real invitations out to the guests that made the "cut".



How tacky. (!) I wonder what the non-invitee is supposed to do, having saved the date as requested? Sit around wondering what happened to the invitation that was expected?

Some people hadn't yet received their facebook nonvitations when I went to the shower.  They were still wondering where their invitation was.  Since I knew that the "real" invitations for the real guests had already been mailed, I knew I was talking to someone who wouldn't be getting one.  It was awkward.  Since it was a friend of mine, I ended up sharing that actually some people aren't being invited to the reception and I was one of them.  I basically said maybe you will still get an invitation but wanted to warn her in case she was still holding the weekend open for no reason.  She was not invited, it turned out.

When I got the save the date card months earlier, I DID save the date and avoided an out of town trip that my husband and I wanted to go on.  When I got my nonvitation, luckily we were able to still book the trip.  If I wouldn't have been able to, I am not sure if I would have been able to remain polite to the bride.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: ------ on January 04, 2013, 01:42:57 PM
@Miranova: so, basically the bride (or MOH or whomever) manipulated a gift out of you - at least, that's how *I* read the situation. I don't know if that was intentional or not, but what a rotten thing to do!  >:(
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: miranova on January 04, 2013, 02:49:37 PM
@Miranova: so, basically the bride (or MOH or whomever) manipulated a gift out of you - at least, that's how *I* read the situation. I don't know if that was intentional or not, but what a rotten thing to do!  >:(

I don't think the bride planned it all out from the beginning.  I think she may have intended to invite everyone to her reception and costs got away with her or something.  The right thing to do in that situation is to scale back your reception plans to what you can afford, not disinvite people who you have already sent a save the date to.  I mean, I do think basic budgeting for the wedding needs to happen BEFORE sending someone a save the date.  At the very least, I should not have been invited to THREE gift giving events after being noninvited to the reception, but I was.  I only went to the first, because I had already RSVP'd yes to that one.  I declined the other two.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: fluffy on January 04, 2013, 02:57:16 PM
Oh sure, I saw that.  But any columnist giving etiquette related advice who links to e-how isn't furthering the cause of etiquette!

I wish I could remember the things I've heard in real life that were traced back to e-how.  I don't even know who comes up with their stuff.


I'm fairly positive that the link to the ehow page was to show it as a bad example. Basically, she was saying "look, there really are people out there who think this way."
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: PeterM on January 06, 2013, 01:44:27 PM
Somewhere in one of Miss Manners' books is a letter from a Gentle Reader who got a shower invitation with an added note "I regret space does not permit your attendance."

Do you remember Miss manners response?

No matter what her written response was, I'd bet cash money her initial, instinctive response was unprintable.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: #borecore on January 06, 2013, 02:50:57 PM
We are feeling bad about not being able to invite more than immediate family and a few close, local friends to our wedding, but space and budget won't permit more (current guest list less than 25; if I were to invite my mom's family -- just her siblings, their spouses, and my first cousins -- that would add more than 30 people to the list! BF's family is similar in size though not as close; venue holds 40 max).

Here I was under the impression that marriage announcements (post-wedding) to loved ones who don't make the strict cut were acceptable. I'd never dream of a "WARNING: You are not invited!" before the wedding, though!

(Wait, are announcements OK?)
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Specky on January 06, 2013, 03:04:56 PM
Prudence linked to the article, stating she "found this gem," so I'm pretty certain she found it appalling as well.

We had something very similar happen last year.  We received a STD followed eventually by an invitation that was rescinded the same day it hit the mailbox.  "We just wanted you to feel a part of things, but you aren't really invited."
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: m2kbug on January 06, 2013, 03:34:06 PM
Dear Prudence also alluded to the fact that with social networking sites and posting about the upcoming nuptials might leave some friends who might expect an invitation feeling rather bitter, so maybe this is an effort to include non-invites, not that the suggestions were all that good.  She also expressed that this gesture should only be for those that are close, and probably limiting how much you post is a good idea.  We may be seeing a shift in certain etiquette practices because of social sites??  Having your non-invitees be your servants or invite them to the bridal shower or shlep around town for shoes is certainly not a good solution.  I can't think of any better way to appease the situation.   I think accepting the fact you're not all that close that you get an invite is the only route.  I watched wedding planning play out on FB, and I admit I was hurt that I wasn't invited, but I also realize that we're not that terribly close.  Purposefully sending out a "you're not invited" announcement is just wrong. 
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: gramma dishes on January 06, 2013, 04:02:52 PM
I think it would be funny to respond to a non-invitation with "Who are you, again?"


 ;D ;D ;D   LOVE this!!
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Julian on January 06, 2013, 04:49:05 PM
We had something very similar happen last year.  We received a STD followed eventually by an invitation that was rescinded the same day it hit the mailbox.  "We just wanted you to feel a part of things, but you aren't really invited."

 :o My jaw nearly shattered on the desk reading that.  Seriously, what the heck were they thinking???   >:(
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: wolfie on January 06, 2013, 04:51:29 PM
We are feeling bad about not being able to invite more than immediate family and a few close, local friends to our wedding, but space and budget won't permit more (current guest list less than 25; if I were to invite my mom's family -- just her siblings, their spouses, and my first cousins -- that would add more than 30 people to the list! BF's family is similar in size though not as close; venue holds 40 max).

Here I was under the impression that marriage announcements (post-wedding) to loved ones who don't make the strict cut were acceptable. I'd never dream of a "WARNING: You are not invited!" before the wedding, though!

(Wait, are announcements OK?)

Yes - announcements are to let people know you got married after the fact. They are 100% okay.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 06, 2013, 05:06:17 PM
You know, I can understand where this is coming from, even thought it's very bad adviceIt's about trying to make someone feel "involved" even if they can't come to your wedding.It's part of the "it's rude to tell anyone 'no'!" mentality. She's hoping that the people so treated will feel like guests in everything except actually being there on the day.

It's totally ineffective, of course, and very rude. But I can, alas, see people thinking that this would actually placate someone by sending the message " I can't invite you. But see! I still want to spend time with you doing weddingy things! It's not my fault!"

But why would someone believe that a friend or relative who is not close enough to be invited to a wedding care enough about the wedding to want to be involved?  I'm not talking about a destination wedding or one with a very small guest list of immediate family and very close friends.  But one where a wider range of family and friends are being invited. 
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: ------ on January 06, 2013, 09:41:58 PM
You know, I can understand where this is coming from, even thought it's very bad adviceIt's about trying to make someone feel "involved" even if they can't come to your wedding.It's part of the "it's rude to tell anyone 'no'!" mentality. She's hoping that the people so treated will feel like guests in everything except actually being there on the day.

It's totally ineffective, of course, and very rude. But I can, alas, see people thinking that this would actually placate someone by sending the message " I can't invite you. But see! I still want to spend time with you doing weddingy things! It's not my fault!"

But why would someone believe that a friend or relative who is not close enough to be invited to a wedding care enough about the wedding to want to be involved?  I'm not talking about a destination wedding or one with a very small guest list of immediate family and very close friends.  But one where a wider range of family and friends are being invited.



I personally think the reason is because some brides seem to have an overdeveloped sense of the importance of their own wedding. I think part of the reason for this is the pervasiveness of overblown "celebrity" weddings and all those wedding planning shows on TV. While entertaining (to me), I think it leaves more impressionable, less "life-experienced" brides with the idea that their wedding is supposed to be less a sacred joining of lives but an EVENT - and that everyone, of course, would cherish the wonderful news that they are important enough to be a part of the EVENT even if just to serve appetizers.

That's the other thing - these theme weddings. When did weddings start having themes? What happened to just choosing your colors and ordering food, flowers and a cake? And when did it become necessary for a bride to wear one dress to the ceremony and a second one at the reception?  It just seems like there's a lot of pressure to have events like this, even if it's really beyond the means to do so - I say this because several brides within my own family or people I know have done this and, well...I don't know.

End thread hijack.  :o
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: White Lotus on January 07, 2013, 04:42:33 PM
If you cannot afford a wedding that includes everyone you might like to celebrate with, elope (with maybe a few people -- parents, sibs, honor attendants -- but maybe not) and have an "at home" or open house (you can have several, if you need to) when you get back.  Just as nice, more correct, and significantly cheaper to make up for all those gifts you will not be getting.  If your family wants to throw a "to meet..." Or "in honor of..." party, that is fine, too, as long as you don't pretend it is a wedding.  I agree with "event of the century" thinking causing this highly overblown wedding-takes-a-year and everyone-you-ever-met-must-participate nonsense.  An industry is once again creating a spurious "need" and moving into the breech to fill it.  If something like this happens in my life, I will be delighted to send the gift of an etiquette book.
Title: Re: Dear Prudence: Non-invitations to weddings
Post by: CluelessBride on January 07, 2013, 05:07:20 PM
You know, to be fair, I don't think this phrasing from the OP (or similar)

Quote
I would really love for you to be in attendance on such a special day in my life, but because of out tight budget for the wedding, I was not able to invite as many people as I would have liked.

would be completely inappropriate for gently correcting someone who mistakenly assumed they were invited. I don't think its the phrasing I would use (in particular I'm not thrilled about the wording before the first comma). But I wouldn't hold it against someone if they were caught off guard and used it in reply to, "Oh, I'm so excited for your wedding! I already have my shoes picked out!" from someone not invited.

But of course *assuming* someone is *assuming* they are invited and sending them a dis-invitation is awful on 2 counts.
1. You are implying that they would not be able to graciously accept that they weren't invited when no invitation arrives.
2. You are coming out and saying "you are not welcome at this event"

And the real bonus of the situation is that people who actually wouldn't be able to graciously accept not receiving an invite will probably also be unable to graciously accept a dis-invite. So really there is no winning....