Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: Autumn Rose on January 03, 2013, 09:01:34 PM

Title: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Autumn Rose on January 03, 2013, 09:01:34 PM
I need your help.   Desperately.
 
I need your wise words to help me with this “opportunity”.

Bullet point background:

1.   I love my mother.   Wonderful childhood.   She and my father did everything they could for me.   

2.   I am an only child.

3.   My father passed 11 years ago.   She has been alone since.   

4.   She helped raise my son (although I paid her) and has been an integral part of our lives.

5.   She has lived on and off with me for 10 years.  (ex:   when she was watching my son, her house was 45 minutes away…so she would stay with me for the week.  (sigh)        Ex2 – when I moved to a new state, she moved in with me until she could “find her own place”….years later..

6.   3 years ago I married a wonderful (and patient) man.   She was living with me until we got engaged…and then moved to her own place.

7.    Through her own fiscal irresponsibility  (my father left her with enough to live on)   she now has (literally) a few thousand in the bank – and lives off her Social Security = $1000mo.

8.   She has repeatedly ignored/scoffed/refused financial advice.

9.   A year ago, she gave up her apartment (because they were raising her rent) and came up with a “fabulous idea”  to “travel and see her friends for a year”.   That lasted 6 months and then she was back at our place.   

10.   When she moved back in “temporarily”, DH and I discussed how this should be handled.   We decided that she could help with the expenses and pay us $100 week.  50% less than her payment for a 1/1 apt.    Nice home.   including utilities, her own room and sitting area.      parking her car in the garage...etc.

11.   None of this would even be required if it wasn’t such a “chore” to have her here.    She is over-the-top critical.    To the point where HER friends are telling us to get her out!

12.   She hasn’t paid anything since November.   And when I asked her today for Jan rent, she replied…I can’t pay you anything.  (excuse, excuse)

If she was a nice, kind, gentle person…this would not even be a question.   But she is not.   She is critical, demanding, and (I hate to admit it) pretty selfish.   She does not appreciate what we offer her – instead acts as if this is almost her due.

I am over it.   My husband  (and only through his generosity has it lasted THIS long) is over it.
Even my darling son, (who adores his grandma)  is now old enough to recognize that she is constantly nagging.

So….
“What is the ‘proper’,  ‘etiquette approved way’ to kick your mother out”?  :(


(sorry if I posted in the wrong place.   this is such a hot mess...i dont even know where it belongs!  :)
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: MinAvi on January 03, 2013, 09:17:18 PM
Wow..

I really wish I had some advice for you. The only suggestion I can make is for both you and your DH to sit her down and explain that you need to live your lives, and she needs to live hers, oh and by the way, have you seen these new rental appartments that are in the next town over?

Wishing you all the best - and sending virtual support!
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 03, 2013, 09:19:54 PM
Hello,

Based on the bullet points, I would take a step back and sit down with your husband to discuss how to handle what your uncomfortable with...rather than making plans to oust her.  I'm basing this from your background you gave that she's been a wonderful mother, gave you a great childhood, and that she and your dad did everything they could for you, and that she was very generous in helping you to raise your son which was invaluable and she did it while she lived almost an hour away.
So Instead of quickly making plans to oust her I would sit down at a time when your not in the middle of feeling upset, and maybe make a list of some things that bothering you and then think of possible things to ease those affronts and think of some ways to make life more doable with her there rather than focusing your sights on ousting her
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: WillyNilly on January 03, 2013, 09:22:03 PM
I think the best method here is to be fully armed with a "no-excuses" plan.  Have several listings for apartments she can afford at the ready.  Have a definite plan on how to move her out (moving companies, plans to rent a truck and friends lined up ready to help).  Have a plan for any obstacle she may raise (she doesn't have a sofa or TV - have listings of affordable options for sale, or plan to gift her one, etc).  Then you sit her down and you give her a date and you make her sign an agreement saying she will be out by that date.  And then you hold her to it and you change the locks.

As for what to say, start off gently and thanking her for her help and support over the years. Then say "but honestly it is not healthy for our family to have you here. when we got married we formed a family unit separate from you. And we need to establish and maintain that family unit." Then as she puts up reasons she can't, you pull out all your research to show her, yes she can... and she has to.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 03, 2013, 09:28:54 PM
I don't want to "go legal" on you and get this thread locked but, you might want to check out landlord/tenant laws in your area.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Autumn Rose on January 03, 2013, 09:36:55 PM

My spine is not 'shiny' or 'strong' enough to use legal measures..  :)

Just trying to be loving and kind and firm in my boundaries...  ::)
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: sevenday on January 03, 2013, 09:47:45 PM
Both you and your DH need to sit down with her. "Mom, when you moved in, we said you could do so WITH CONDITIONS.  One of those conditions was that you pay us $100 a week. You haven't paid us for X weeks.  (insert any other conditions she's failed to meet too)  We've thought long and hard about this, and we're not happy with what's happening and we feel this is not working for us anymore. You either need to start paying us what you agreed to, as well as your back rent, or you need to leave by Y date (two months at the most, I'd say, is enough time to find a little place).  We'll help you look and move, but if you are not out by Y date, we will move you out ourselves." 

Unfortunately, there are legal aspects to this given she's been there so long. Tenancy laws go into effect regarding how people can be legally removed from properties.  If you do not have anything in writing, you need to get something now.  "I agree to pay $100 a week in exchange for living space inside this home, utilities paid etc." Then go through the courts to formally evict her.   If she refuses to sign you can still go through the courts, just be aware she will kick and scream and fuss most likely.  That may well be the price you pay for peace and quiet...
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: yokozbornak on January 03, 2013, 09:48:14 PM
I think the best method here is to be fully armed with a "no-excuses" plan.  Have several listings for apartments she can afford at the ready.  Have a definite plan on how to move her out (moving companies, plans to rent a truck and friends lined up ready to help).  Have a plan for any obstacle she may raise (she doesn't have a sofa or TV - have listings of affordable options for sale, or plan to gift her one, etc).  Then you sit her down and you give her a date and you make her sign an agreement saying she will be out by that date.  And then you hold her to it and you change the locks.

As for what to say, start off gently and thanking her for her help and support over the years. Then say "but honestly it is not healthy for our family to have you here. when we got married we formed a family unit separate from you. And we need to establish and maintain that family unit." Then as she puts up reasons she can't, you pull out all your research to show her, yes she can... and she has to.

WillyNilly said it better than I could.  She needs an end date, and she needs to know you are firm.  While I agree that she has done wonderful things for you, that is in the past and now she is actively hurting you, your family, and most likely your marriage.  You need to put yourself and your husband and son before your your mother because the person who ends up leaving may be your husband or son.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: WillyNilly on January 03, 2013, 09:51:04 PM

My spine is not 'shiny' or 'strong' enough to use legal measures..  :)

Just trying to be loving and kind and firm in my boundaries...  ::)

I think the reference to checking laws more about how you might not legally be able to oust her, not that the law would be on your side... so really you should hope her spine isn't shiny enough to use legal measures to stay.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 03, 2013, 10:01:21 PM

My spine is not 'shiny' or 'strong' enough to use legal measures..  :)

Just trying to be loving and kind and firm in my boundaries...  ::)

Maybe you need to polish your spine by remembering that you owe your son a duty.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: wheeitsme on January 03, 2013, 10:17:51 PM
And if you are in the US, and your mother truly doesn't have the money, I'd check into HUD housing and other public help to get her a place.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: doodlemor on January 03, 2013, 10:23:20 PM
Was your mother always this cranky, or has this gotten worse with age?  If so, perhaps her doctor could help. 

Dear Abby would have suggested that you introduce her to some men her age.  Are all of her friends annoyed with her, or is there a chance to get her involved in more activities outside of the house?

Best of luck with this, OP.  It's a difficult situation.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: SeptGurl on January 04, 2013, 07:21:45 AM
And if you are in the US, and your mother truly doesn't have the money, I'd check into HUD housing and other public help to get her a place.

POD this. It is possible that she might qualify for several forms of assistance, including housing. If you are in the U.S., please contact the Area Agency on Aging that serves your county for more information. It may be helpful to have a third party (e.g., case manager) involved.

I like WillyNilly's approach. I also like sevenday's phrasing in terms of broaching the subject with your mother. You offered her room and board with conditions. She has not met those conditions. This is a matter of you and your DH enforcing those conditions with consequences.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: caz on January 04, 2013, 07:22:48 AM

9.   A year ago, she gave up her apartment (because they were raising her rent) and came up with a “fabulous idea”  to “travel and see her friends for a year”.   That lasted 6 months and then she was back at our place.   

10.   When she moved back in “temporarily”, DH and I discussed how this should be handled.   We decided that she could help with the expenses and pay us $100 week.  50% less than her payment for a 1/1 apt.    Nice home.   including utilities, her own room and sitting area.      parking her car in the garage...etc.

11.   None of this would even be required if it wasn’t such a “chore” to have her here.    She is over-the-top critical.    To the point where HER friends are telling us to get her out!

12.   She hasn’t paid anything since November.   And when I asked her today for Jan rent, she replied…I can’t pay you anything.  (excuse, excuse)

If she was a nice, kind, gentle person…this would not even be a question.   But she is not.   She is critical, demanding, and (I hate to admit it) pretty selfish.   She does not appreciate what we offer her – instead acts as if this is almost her due.

I am over it.   My husband  (and only through his generosity has it lasted THIS long) is over it.
Even my darling son, (who adores his grandma)  is now old enough to recognize that she is constantly nagging.

So….
“What is the ‘proper’,  ‘etiquette approved way’ to kick your mother out”?  :(


(sorry if I posted in the wrong place.   this is such a hot mess...i dont even know where it belongs!  :)

I had a similar situation (similar in that it was an unwanted guest; it wasn't a family member, which definitely makes it more difficult).

Can you start talking about her moving out as though it was a foregone conclusion?  We had an unwanted guest - Barbara (another housemate invited her, then moved out)but Barbara  stayed for months after and the (still there) housemate who had agreed to it (leaseholder - Bob), didn't want to do anything about it.  So, after whining about it to Bob for a couple of months (!), one day, I sat down and went through the paper while it was just me and Barbara.  I just called out a few options of places to stay and didn't listen to PA remarks.  I don't know what your mom is like, but that worked for me.

No money?  "Oh, but you have been saving on rent the last few months."
Too far for transport? "Is that really an issue?  It's just one bus in to the city."
Oh, I wouldn't see you as much! "Yes, but we need our own space.  We'll work it out" (I used this a bit too...)

It's tougher when it's your mom, but maybe you could start to have these conversations.  I had an ultimatum with Barbara, but if you start, then perhaps you can start with that, and if she comes up with excuses, have some phrases to show her that she at least has a deadline... 

Others might help more.  Sorry.  Family can be hard (hugs)
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: YummyMummy66 on January 04, 2013, 07:26:39 AM
Honestly, there will be no "courteous" way to oust your mother from your home.  I think you need to get that thought out of your head.   In a way, you have set a precedent by letting mom "stay" with you on and off for so many years.

Number one, until she is moved out of your home, you need to take back your home.  Stop letting mom rule the roost in "your" home.  This is your home, not hers.  You do not have to listen to her nagging.  Find ways to not listen to it or work around it and ignore her.

Yes, she is your mother, but in this case, in your home, she is acting like a child and as such, she should be treated as such.  Would you let your son get away with some of the behaviors she is?  If not, next time she is saying or doing something that you know you would not let your son do, do what you would do or say to your son, but to your mother. 

Also, like others have stated, you and your dh need to come up with a plan, be firm and stick with it.  Number one, I would look into an agencies for the elderly in your area.  (We have them in the US, don't know where you are from).  They can be a valuable source of information.  They can help with housing, care, etc.

If you have to research apartments for mom.  Then, you and your dh take her apartment hunting one weekend.  Maybe not get anything, but let her know this is the deal.  If you can afford to, even pay first, last and security deposit and move her in.  Then it is up to her. 
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: TootsNYC on January 04, 2013, 07:32:23 AM
Both you and your DH need to sit down with her. "Mom, when you moved in, we said you could do so WITH CONDITIONS.  One of those conditions was that you pay us $100 a week. You haven't paid us for X weeks.  (insert any other conditions she's failed to meet too)  We've thought long and hard about this, and we're not happy with what's happening and we feel this is not working for us anymore. You either need to start paying us what you agreed to, as well as your back rent, or you need to leave by Y date (two months at the most, I'd say, is enough time to find a little place).  We'll help you look and move, but if you are not out by Y date, we will move you out ourselves." 



Guys! It's not about the money; the money is just one small aspect of why the resentment is so high.

They want her to move out because she is unpleasant to live with--she nags and nags and nags.

(I think part of that hypercritical-ness may be because she is unhappy. Being overly critical or angry a lot is a symptom of depression, actually. This arrangement is probably not good for her either.)

WillyNilly's advice is very good.

And start doing some of the legwork, just a little. Start saying, "Oh, look, here's a nice price on a decent apartment for you, Mom!" As caz suggested, just start having constant conversations that treat her moving out as a foregone conclusion. It'll help make it more real to her.

You might also start getting critical back.--when she nags, etc., immediately say, "You know Mom, that sort of comment is exactly the reason why you need to get your own place, and pronto. It's not good for you to be constantly in this critical mood. And to be honest, it's not good for me. It's making me really annoyed with you, and I *love* you. I hate it. We're in each other's business too much."

Start making "living with you" have some serious downsides. Politely, as I suggested above, but irritations.

(also try making sure she gets out of your house some, to build her own activities in town.)
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: bopper on January 04, 2013, 08:00:11 AM
Was your mother always this cranky, or has this gotten worse with age?  If so, perhaps her doctor could help. 

Dear Abby would have suggested that you introduce her to some men her age.  Are all of her friends annoyed with her, or is there a chance to get her involved in more activities outside of the house?



I was thinking along these lines...Was she independent before and now is losing control of her money?  It could be there is a medical issue going on.

Does she have no "life" so she is attaching herself to yours?  Does she have friends to do things with? Is she involved with a church/synagogue/volunteering? 

I think you may need to talk to your DH and see what you are willing to deal with.
Maybe it that you are willing to help her pay for an apt.

So you sit her down and say "Mom, when you moved in here, it was under the understanding that you would be paying rent and {whatever else conditions you had}.  Now you have stopped. Quite frankly, you seem miserable here. You have many complaints...clearly it seems you want your home to be run a certain way.  I have found a cute apartment that is only 15 minutes away and you can walk to shopping.  We would be willing to help you pay for your security deposit.  We would love to have you over for dinner every Sunday. But something needs to change."
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 04, 2013, 08:39:48 AM
Besides the idea of having her move out, there is another option I think I would strongly consider in large part bc as you say she helped you raise your son when you were on your own, ..it sounds like from the post,  she gave up alot of her own life in doing this to help you as she lived almost an hour away...even if she lived right next door it was very generous of her to do so and must have been very beneficial to your son , if not i assume you wouodnt have wanted her raising him.  I'm assuming your son greatly benefitted from this having a grandparent care for him instead of other options which usually aren't the same as being cared for by grandma or grandpa. This isn't the only reason but its a big one that would make me really not want to now think of ousting her, also she's been an integral part of you and sons life. This has been of tremendous value, a loving grandparent who is a part of grandchilds life as invaluable, ..I'm assuming this has been very positive benefit for your son since you wanted her to continue help raise him.
 So based in large part on this I would consider other options besides her moving out, to help make the living situation more pleasant in other words so that you don't need to think of it in terms of ousting her. My grandparents lived across the country from me growing up and I know I lost out on alot by not having them more closely involved in my life
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: anonymousmac on January 04, 2013, 08:51:02 AM
I'm going to go against the grain here, and say that my answer depends on your mother's age and medical condition.  If her mental state and ability to care for herself financially are deteriorating, which sounds possible from your description, then you might no longer be dealing with the etiquette of ousting an unpleasant housemate, but with the issue of caring for aging family.

Even if you were to manage to get her out of your house, you might not be able to just go on with your life without dealing with her issues.

I'd recommend that you find a counselor, or someone trained in elder care issues, to help you figure out what you're willing to do, what your options are, and how to proceed.  It's not easy, and I wish you the best of luck.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: magician5 on January 04, 2013, 09:06:39 AM
You could try, as a first strategy, asking your mother to formulate her own plan for finding her own place to live. Easier for you to make some adjustments to that plan ("Three months is really more than we were thinking of, how about one month?") than to impose your own plan directly.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Redneck Gravy on January 04, 2013, 09:18:18 AM
I agree with pp about setting a date.  I don't know how tight the housing market is in your area but if there are available apartments help her find one.  Just keep shining your spine and tell her that you and DH want your privacy/life back and would be more comfortable with her living somewhere else.  Lather, rinse, repeat with your spine!

The evil redneck in me says start talking about nursing homes - nothing seems to get a parent moving faster than suggesting they need to be in one.  And maybe she does but I have yet to meet a family with a parent looking forward to being "shoved off" into a nursing home.

There are many fine assisted living facilities in my area and there are some awful nursing homes here too...it's a tough job to find a good fit. 

And please don't blast me because other posters have had to turn to a nursing home for their family members, again they serve a need and it's a very tough position to be in.  Not everyone "shoves" their parents into a nursing home, sometimes it is just the best alternative available and family members continue to visit and assist in their care.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 04, 2013, 10:24:09 AM
I'm throwing out an additional suggestion to consider:

Is it possible to construct an 'In-law' suite or apartment in your home?  Above the garage, in the basement, section off part of the main floor, etc.  So that Mom could have her own space separate from you, complete with her own bedroom, bathroom, sitting area and kitchenette.  And then set strict guidelines for visiting, letting her know that anytime she is critical, she will be asked to go back to her own apartment.

I'd recommend that you find a counselor, or someone trained in elder care issues, to help you figure out what you're willing to do, what your options are, and how to proceed.  It's not easy, and I wish you the best of luck.

I also agree with this.

I may be looking at a similar situation soon, without the criticalness.  My Dad is aging and is talking about moving out of his current home, which is large.  He could move to a smaller house, move to an apartment and one of his suggestions was to move in with me!  :o  I'm not sure either of us is ready for that.  But if it were to happen, we'd be doing some renovations so he could have his own space and we wouldn't be on top of each other all the time.  We'd probably have dinner together but he'd be on his own for breakfast and lunch.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: NyaChan on January 04, 2013, 10:31:50 AM
OP, just to get an idea of how you and your husband are viewing this - did you as a family consider her to be moving in permanently?  Is that a possibility still or now if her attitude changes?

ETA:  I'm coming from a family where my Uncle and Cousins lived through an incredibly stressful and unhappy environment due to my Grandma who lived with them and still does. She was at first a wonderful person and I love that person.  Over time, that person disappeared into a person no one recognizes anymore.  Nagging, being critical, etc. was all part of it and the attitude change for the better never happened.  Now it is too late to do anything about her in terms of sending her away, and they are all (grandma included) suffering.  So from my point of view, it is really good to think long-term and know what the boundaries of your tolerance are.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: ladyknight1 on January 04, 2013, 01:10:43 PM
OP, I POD Willy Nilly's advice and hope that things work out for the best.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 04, 2013, 06:08:55 PM
Also fnd alot of merit in what anonymousmac said , to me this is much more related to issues of caring for an aging parent, as opposed to ousting rude roommate situation

Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: poundcake on January 04, 2013, 06:33:08 PM
To add, for emphasis: adult children do not "owe" it to their parents to take them in/care for them indefinitely. This is something that I and a lot of my adult friends are starting to hear now as our boomer parents age and retire, that we "owe" it to them to move in, or let them move in with us, and care for them as they age, because they raised us. This is not true. For most of us it's not even possible. But that kind of guilt is hard to get past.

AutumnRose, remember that as reinforcement as you deal with this. Your responsibility is to your own children and what is best for them. Hang in there!
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 04, 2013, 07:23:28 PM
Poundcake,  there are different views on this...there are those who agree with above statement and there are those who feel one has a moral duty to provide care to elderly parents
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: poundcake on January 04, 2013, 07:28:52 PM
If someone _chooses_, yes. But to have that care foisted on your household, no.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 04, 2013, 07:43:04 PM
If someone _chooses_, yes. But to have that care foisted on your household, no.

Especially if the parent is a toxic  person who's disrupting the household and threatening the happiness of your child. Just because someone is family does not mean one should  put up with her.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: TootsNYC on January 04, 2013, 08:09:49 PM
Poundcake,  there are different views on this...there are those who agree with above statement and there are those who feel one has a moral duty to provide care to elderly parents

I don't think the OP's mom is elderly or infirm.

She is not at the point of not really being able to take care of herself.

Even people who believe it's a moral duty to care for one's elderly parents don't necessarily think it kicks in this early.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: wheeitsme on January 04, 2013, 09:36:31 PM
It's also hard when the reason the parent moves in is because they chose to make bad decisions that puts them in  bad spot financially. 
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Lauds on January 05, 2013, 02:19:04 AM
Is it possible that she has stopped paying the agreed $100 as either a PA way of saying she is unhappy or a way of making you be the bad guy and kicking her out?

I would approach it from the standpoint that she is as unhappy with the situation as you have become. Sit her down and ask her point blank "Mom, are you actually happy living here? Even [son] has noticed that you don't seem to be happy since you keep making mean/mean-spirited comments, and now you're not even sticking to the money agreement we made when you moved in. I love you, but maybe we'd all be happier if you had your own space in your own place." Then go from there.

Obviously, you know your mother best and how to phrase for her so that she doesn't feel like she is being attacked. Throw as many 'I love you's and other nice comments in as you feel necessary to reassure her that you're acting in her own best interests. And pick your timing wisely, maybe after she has come back happy after a day out or something like that.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 05, 2013, 12:37:25 PM
I agree with some others thoughts above, that this is not so much an issue of how to out a rude roommate, as it is of caring for an older parent who is now in a disadvantaged position. Especially in this case, as I read points 1-6 above, I don't think those should be brushed aside or minimized. The op says in her points starts off by saying how wonderful her mom has been to her, and she was given everything her parents could give to her, and then even goes beyond this by helping her raise her son when she was apparently single.

I think that if this was just some college buddy who was partying, not paying rent for shared due etc that would be a diferent t issue. But this is very different, this is her mom, who she writes was a wonderful generous parent, that she was given everything growing up and had a wonderful childhood. In addition, her mom did something that not all grandparents do was help raise her son. I'm assuming this was very good care she provided or else she would have had someone else watch him, or daycare,etc.
there are options like hiring someone thru an agency (usually expensive and can't really compare to the personalized care of a loving grandparent, there are also daycare centers ,again expensive, not at all the one to one care of a grandma or grandpa), and for at least part of the time she did this if I understand the bullet point, grandma was living almost an hour away which in my mind makes it more of a sacrifice on gmas part.

I think bc of these things its realy important to take a step back and look more in depth at some issues and how to resolve them rather than just quickly tossing her out. That would be the quick amswer, but may not be the best answer. also as one poster pointed out, even if she does manage to get her mom moved out,  it may not be that simple , she might be needed to provide some type of assistance or care to her.
Her mom according to everything I see above, was there for her when she needed her, and it would only be right imo to at least first look at maybe how the living situation can be made more doable, rather than just taking the quick way out.     Here are a few things I think should be thoughtfully considered and then discussed in the context of "how can we help her, "rather than just how can we oust her.

There was mention of how the op felt her mom hasn't been responsible with money her husband left for her. Rather than just assuming that's all there is to it, I see a couple underlying issues with this...at least one other poster above wrote how it sounds possible her mother might have depression which could explain why her mom who was so nice her entire life, is suddenly cranky and critical. I wouldn't overlook the impact her husbands death may play into all of this..the other issue with this is how does the op really know she's been irresponsible or how much money the husband left her? Did she sit down and show her a paper with how much he left her, etc or is this more an assumption?  Please note Obviously I'm not saying either way since I don't know. But I am just raising the possibility she might have thought her dad left more than he did. 

It  says that her main reason for wanting her to move out is bc she's irritable and critical. I'm not trying to excuse this behavior,but in older adults especially if they are widowed and like her mom, this is not characeteristic of how she was all those years......there is a high incidence of depression, and this is a symptom of it. Again I am not saying this is the case, but from what the op writes, this wasn't a part of her moms character in all the years , it sounds like amore recent thing.  In looking at how to help her, what about having her evaluated to see if she may be suffering from something like depression. I'm not saying this is the case, but given her age and the fact this is not how she was during her life, and that she is widowed,, it wouldn't hurt to at least have her evaluated to see if there is a depression or some other related issue.  Beyond just a simple evaluation, it ight really help her to be able to talk with a counselor, I think this would be helpful for anyone who's lost their spouse. In fact a counseling session for you and your mom together might be helpful in gaining understanding of what the real issues are.  It sounds like she spent most of her life caring for others, this is a issue for women when they get older feel a loss of what their role is .

To kind of summarize this, I think the fact that the op describes her mom as a woman who has been a kind and giving person thru her life, helping to raise her son, etc , the recent behavior of her being critical and irritable should be considered as a possibility she has depression or other related condition. This is kind of a red flag esp in older adults and if they've lost a spouse, it becomes even more of an indication. It might be a good idea to ask if she'd be willing to be evaluated. Offering to fnd resources for counseling or support group f widows might be all she needs to start pulling out of this if it is a life change type of depression. I know somene who's mom still has grief and depression from the loss of her father that happened way back in 1999. Grief can hold on and affect a person, especially with the major losses such as parent or spouse.

I would try to look at this as what is causing this recent change of behavior in her mom and look at how to help her with that, as a starting point. If it is depression related to major loss, grief, getting older etc it could be that medication and counseling or whatever treatment she gets could resolve the issue of her acting irritable



Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 05, 2013, 01:01:48 PM
The grandmother didn't help raise Autumn Rose's son for free--she was paid for it.

No where in her posts on this thread does Autumn Rose state her mother is elderly or needs help other than financial advice which she has repeatedly refused.

Autumn Rose does tell us that this is adversely affecting her family--her, her son and her husband. Those are the people to whom she owes primary loyalty.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 05, 2013, 02:49:26 PM
Even though she paid her some amount,the care of a loving grandparent one to one is pretty invaluable,it doesnt compare to a daycare situation or somthing like that...a single person is darn lucky if they have a grandparent that wants to take on that role and greatly benefits both the parent by peace of mind knowing their childs with a grandparent as opposed to a daycare center...i think the care of a grandparents invaluable and many people would give their right arm to have that as opposed to looking for a babysitter or person thru agency or a daycare center.   I was trying to thoughtfully consider looking at things may be causing her irritable behavior and to help her rather than just doing the fast or quick answer. It does sound like from what op writes this is a more recent change in her mother thats not characteristic of how she has been over her life and raises a posible red flag to consider posible medical cause for this such as depression and maybe issues related to grief
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 05, 2013, 03:01:41 PM
I forgot to write part of a sentence above that the care of a grandparent greatly benefits both the parent of child, and also the child. The.parent benefits by having peace of mind and that their child is being given one to one care.by a family member...the child.benefits from having a person who is personally cincerned and loves them. This is a less important issue but kids in daycare places are exposed to alot more colds and other stuff that arent an issue with one to one care. I know the times I got to spend with my grandma in ohio could not be even closely remotely duplicated by a babysitter or daycare center. Im not saying those are bad things but they cant compare to being cared for by a close family member...its Invaluable.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 05, 2013, 03:05:10 PM
Perhaps Autumn Rose's son would benefit more not being forced to  put up with a nasty person in his own home.

One's family of origin is not the end-all and be-all to a happy life. Sometimes people are better off extricating themselves and their families from toxic people.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 05, 2013, 03:17:50 PM
I agree if a relative is a toxic evil kind of person you should put space between you...but from ops post this is a very good woman who has been a wonderful parent and gparent who more recently began acting out of character with being irritable and stuff.  Since this is out of character for her, given her age and loss of spouse etc that its a red flag that it might be coming from depression or related issue..seems to me a big diference between a person who has a toxic character and one who its posibly caused by somthing medical loke depresion...at the least I think she could be evaluated. If it is somthing like that it can be treated and would improve the whole issue
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Yvaine on January 05, 2013, 03:26:54 PM
I agree if a relative is a toxic evil kind of person you should put space between you...but from ops post this is a very good woman who has been a wonderful parent and gparent who more recently began acting out of character with being irritable and stuff.  Since this is out of character for her, given her age and loss of spouse etc that its a red flag that it might be coming from depression or related issue..seems to me a big diference between a person who has a toxic character and one who its posibly caused by somthing medical loke depresion...at the least I think she could be evaluated. If it is somthing like that it can be treated and would improve the whole issue

I think that it's also possible that they're just rubbing each other the wrong way after all this time. I have some very dear friends and relatives whom I simply can't be roommates with. I really don't think this is an elder care issue, it's just people living together too long when they're not really compatible as roommates.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: Ladybugs on January 05, 2013, 03:56:16 PM
That's possible too...I think with the red flags though there is no harm in ruling out a medical issue like depression, or unresolved grief etc
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: bopper on January 07, 2013, 08:33:12 AM
To add, for emphasis: adult children do not "owe" it to their parents to take them in/care for them indefinitely. This is something that I and a lot of my adult friends are starting to hear now as our boomer parents age and retire, that we "owe" it to them to move in, or let them move in with us, and care for them as they age, because they raised us. This is not true. For most of us it's not even possible. But that kind of guilt is hard to get past.

AutumnRose, remember that as reinforcement as you deal with this. Your responsibility is to your own children and what is best for them. Hang in there!

I think this depends on your culture....if you parents took care of their parents, and they took care of their parents and you had grown up in such a culture and could expect your children to take care of you, then yes, you might "owe" their parents.

But if a parent is not being a good steward of their own money and moves in temporarily which turns in to permanently and said parent is still physically able to take care of themselves and is not contributing to the household and is spreading negativity...then no.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home
Post by: heartmug on January 07, 2013, 12:05:56 PM
How is this going?

I wonder if your mom thought like my in-laws:  that they could do as they pleased because we would look like the bad guys denying something to them, or laying down some boundaries.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Autumn Rose on January 07, 2013, 10:09:50 PM
Ahhh...my dear friends!

Thank you for all of your wise words.   There are so many great ideas/suggestions.   If I thanked everyone personally, it would take up the whole post!   LOL

I think it boils down to this...I love my mother.   I want to do everything I can for her  (as does my husband).
But at what sacrifice?


I think we have 3 choices:

1.   DH and I don't "shine our spine" - let her continue to stay here...and then everyone is unhappy.

2.   DH and I find her a dwelling (obviously safe, nice).   We could put down the downpayment - she would pay the mortgage (which would be LESS  than what she would pay in rent).   

    Upside?   DH and I would have an "investment property" at some point in our lives.   rental property is good in our area - and it is something DH and I want to do at some point.
   
    Downside?  DH and I are saving for our own home.    Giving her "our" downpayment could prevent us (for another year) in owning our own home.

3.   Offering a certain "stipend" a month to help cover her costs.  $100?   $200?     
      Anything we give is money down the drain....that is why the idea of us buying her something is more appealing.



Additional background:
   
She is 78 years old.    She rocks it out.   Some days she has more energy than me.   Seriously.   
However, I have to acknowledge that there is the elder /aging aspect that will have to be addressed in a few more years.

I have set a precedent by letting her stay with me on and off.   Her watching my son was invaluable (and it benefited her financially)
But her constant presence was not good for my 10 year relationship with DS dad.   I will not allow this to cause havoc on my marriage.

5 Years ago - I recognized that she was not in good financial shape.    She absolutely REFUSED to let me help her come up with a long term financial plan.    (I didn't force her...and now look where I am).

This is tough.   Hard.   A Mindblowing/guilt inducing scenario.   

I suppose the right answer is the one you can live with.  And I love the pp who said  "how can we HELP her"  vs.  "how can I oust her".


(heavy sigh)    What would you do?
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: peaches on January 07, 2013, 10:27:02 PM
One thing I would not do is to get involved in home ownership with someone who is irresponsible with money.

I'm not sure what you are proposing. Would you buy a home in your name (and DH's) and let her pay rent? Then you are in the position of hoping she continues to pay you (she hasn't so far). And if you take out one mortgage, when it comes time to buy a home for yourself to live in, you likely won't qualify for a second mortgage (because you already have one). Or, you could end up making two house payments - one for her house (because she won't) and one for your own house.

If she takes out the mortgage in her name, and you give her money for a down payment, that at least makes her responsible for the mortgage. But wait a minute, you think you would be building equity. You wouldn't, not if the mortgage is in her name. She would be building equity (which is only fair, if she's making the payments). Perhaps you would inherit the house, if she makes you the beneficiary in her will. Again, what if she stops making payments?

I think her renting an apartment is preferable. It's less complicated. It doesn't entangle you in her affairs.

I think she still will likely need financial help. I don't see how anyone can live on $1,000 a month. Rent would take most of that (at least where I live). There's still supplemental health insurance, medical expenses, food, clothing, car expenses if she has one/transportation expenses if she doesn't.

I admire you for wanting to help your mother. I would hope you'll think through each step very carefully.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: peaches on January 07, 2013, 10:31:15 PM
I forgot to add: Don't cosign for anything!!! Not a home loan, not a car loan, not a lease.

Cosigning is the same thing as signing - you take on 100% of the risk if the other person defaults or stops making payments. You put your credit rating at risk. You make it hard to get a loan yourself, because in the eyes of lenders, you already have a loan!

It's better to let your mom rise or fall on her own financially. You can always step in with help (money) without entangling yourself in loans or leases.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: lovepickles on January 07, 2013, 11:22:36 PM
I think there is a "polite" way to oust mom from the home. "Mom, I love you. I need you to move out at the end of next month." Be firm and kind. Don't offer explanations if you know that you don't want to negotiate. She can have a big song and dance about all the problems she has with it but your response to it all will need to be "Well, you need to figure it all out." Ask for updates but don't do ANYTHING for her unless you see her exhibiting normal self-motivated progress. Like if she asks you for a ride to see a place then go ... but don't call places for her or set anything up. She needs to put on her big girl boots and go. If she's capable of travel she is sure as heck able to look up apartments and go see them.

And I second what peaches said. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING. No leases, loans ... do not give her down payment money (that is totally yours and will bring total resentment in your marriage) If you want to give her move out fund, fine, but limit it to two months of her rent and call it a day. Don't give another penny until the end of the third month and tell her exactly what you are going to give her so she can learn how to budget. In her mind if she thinks she can get more she will just spend more and ask you for it. Whatever financial limit you agree on with your husband let her know and STICK TO IT.

During the remainder of her stay cut her off when she starts to criticize. Walk away or ignore her attempts to dominate your home. In this case just distance yourself rather than trying to resolve anything or argue because it will just trigger your guilt. Get inside your own head and look at how she treats you the next time it starts up. You don't owe her a response.

Good luck. I know it isn't easy. <3
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Ladybugs on January 07, 2013, 11:33:39 PM
Dandy Andy,

I just wanted to clarify, i said "many" people , not "everyone"
Nothing applies to "everyone", but when the grandparent is loving and provides good care as in her case, the care provided is invaluable , as she stated ,and greatly benefited the son in a way other options would not have. Any payment to the grandma I do not think can be looked at in the way of downplaying the value of what she did.  When somene is providing something that is invaluable, it is nice if we pay them something, but it doesn't really "cover" for lack of a better word the value of what they are providing
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Ladybugs on January 07, 2013, 11:47:30 PM
Hi autumn rose,

I was the one who said "how can we help her, rather than how can we oust her"...I'm glad this was helpful..you asked at end of post sigh, how can we help her? 

 I would use that as the framework for how you approach and resolve this , how can we help her?

I didn't realize she's almost 80, bc there were some posts above that stated they didn't believe she was elderly. My initial hunch was that she was pretty elderly so now knowing that she is older than some posters portrayed it, she isn't 56, she's almost 80....as you said in a very short time you'll  be facing elder care issues anywas

Since you asked how to help her like I said above I would see if she's willing to go to doctor to see if there's something causing her irritability, bc it sounds like this is not her usual personality. Given her old age, loss of spouse it might be the reason she's acting so irritable is bc of something like depression. It would be good to see if there's anything like that going on bc then there's a good chance it can be treated, and the irritability will go away.
It sounded like from your first post that you didn't want her living with you mainly for this reason..so if she was no longer irritable like that, and she was easy enough to get along with, would you be ok with her staying with you?


Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: poundcake on January 08, 2013, 12:28:59 AM
One thing to consider is that if she wants for you to take care of her, either consciously or subconsciously, she will sabotage your efforts to help her into an independent situation. It would be a good idea to have some back up plans as well, and promise to stick to them. If she can't manage an apartment on her own, it's time to start looking for a senior-center apartment living facility.

You already know that you are miserable with her living there. It is not your only option, nor is it your responsibility, Autumn Rose!
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Slartibartfast on January 08, 2013, 02:20:23 AM
1) You have to do the legwork for this.  If you wait for her to get around to searching for an apartment (when she's staying with you for free!) it's never going to happen.  Look up some places that are in her price range, then tell her "We're going apartment-hunting today!" and stick with it.  Don't present it as "Do you like these?," present it as "Which of these options would you like to move to?"

2) Realistically, she IS a financial burden.  She's not going to be any more or less of a financial burden whether you pay money toward her living expenses now or later, other than if she's living with you (which you don't want).  I think it's worth it to do what you can to ensure she can't use money as the reason she can't move out - pay down the security deposit if you have to.  In theory it's money you get back anyway, as long as she doesn't trash the place or skip on rent.  (Which she probably will, but then that comes back to the financial burden thing - that's money you would have spent on her anyway.)

3)  Set a deadline, and stick to it.  Base it around something else in your life if necessary - "You need to be out by X date because [DH starts his new job then | DS has finals at school | I have a big project at work and won't be able to help you move | etc.]".  Figure out a reasonable schedule for moving and work with it - if she's moving in to her new place on the first, that means starting packing her things at your house on the 20th, having a truck rented by the 23rd, having all the details about utilities/TV/etc. worked out before she moves, etc.

4)  Set up a secret code with your DH so you can support each other when your backbone is failing.  A long look and a blink means "I'm about to give in to this ridiculous demand because I can't think of how to say no; please step in!"

5)  Long-term, her financial situation is going to be her $1000/month plus whatever you decide to give her.  If $1000/month isn't enough to live on in your area and she can't go on public assistance, you will need to step in somehow.  Prepare your own finances for this, so you're ready when the time comes.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: cicero on January 08, 2013, 03:57:06 AM


5)  Long-term, her financial situation is going to be her $1000/month plus whatever you decide to give her.  If $1000/month isn't enough to live on in your area and she can't go on public assistance, you will need to step in somehow.  Prepare your own finances for this, so you're ready when the time comes.
I agree with everything startibartfast said but i think this comment, along with her age factor (I didn't realize that she was that old), is crucial - it's not like she is going to get a job and have additional income at this point. the 1000$ is it.

Are you in a position to use your downpayment on a house for you at this point? and could you buy something that will allow her to live with you(add on a MIL unit)? because it looks like she really *can't* live on her own on that amount of money.

if not, is there any time of subsidized assisted living in your area?

I agree that it is up to you to do the legwork, not because your mother can't, but because it is in *your* best interest.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: YummyMummy66 on January 08, 2013, 07:18:10 AM
I also agree with other posters, "Do not buy a home and expect your mother to be able to pay the mortgage and/or rent". 

If you intend to buy a home for your mother to move into and for future use as a rental propertly, I think you need to realize, you will be paying the mortgage on said home. 

Your mom is already living with you and not giving you anything.  Why do you think she would pay the mortgage on a home?

I think you should look for elder care apartments or a senior living center for your mother, especially at her age.  I work with seniors in their homes and there are many apartment type buildings for seniors in our area.  There are also many activities for the seniors to participate in in these types of buildings. 
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: mandycorn on January 08, 2013, 07:20:11 AM
Going along with what Cicero said, would you be able to buy something like both halves of a duplex or a house with a basement apartment? The key is going to be making sure that if she keeps living on your property, it's in a totally separate space so you can ask her to go home if she's stayed too long, as opposed to a separate area of a shared space, like you have now.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: SeptGurl on January 08, 2013, 07:23:30 AM
I suggested in a previous post that if you are in the U.S., you might contact the Area Agency on Aging that serves your county. They have case managers available who can assist with a variety of eldercare issues. If you want more information about this, please feel free to PM me.

In addition to the Area Agencies on Aging, there also are private geriatric care managers who can be hired for a fee. In the U.S., you can find more information about geriatric care managers at http://www.caremanager.org/ (http://www.caremanager.org/).
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: bopper on January 08, 2013, 07:30:05 AM
Like others said, go to a professional!  Find out if their is Agency on Aging or what have you  and get advice from them.
Then perhaps come up with with options that you and your DH are happy with and present them to her to choose from.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: wyliefool on January 08, 2013, 08:07:51 AM
Dandy Andy,

I just wanted to clarify, i said "many" people , not "everyone"
Nothing applies to "everyone", but when the grandparent is loving and provides good care as in her case, the care provided is invaluable , as she stated ,and greatly benefited the son in a way other options would not have. Any payment to the grandma I do not think can be looked at in the way of downplaying the value of what she did.  When somene is providing something that is invaluable, it is nice if we pay them something, but it doesn't really "cover" for lack of a better word the value of what they are providing

This is all well and good, except that her presence apparently broke up the marriage:
Her watching my son was invaluable (and it benefited her financially)
But her constant presence was not good for my 10 year relationship with DS dad.   I will not allow this to cause havoc on my marriage.[/quote]

So it wasn't really 'invaluable' nor was it ideal for the grandchild. Best to stop it now before it breaks up this marriage.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: VorFemme on January 08, 2013, 08:10:52 AM
I'd suggest looking for a duplex or a place with an "apartment" - probably on the ground floor instead of the second story or basement (watch "Income Properties" on HGTV if you are in the USA to get an idea - I think most, if not all the houses are in Canada - but there might be something in your area). 

The idea is that your mortgage covers the house and apartment (which can be rented out later) and your mother lives in "her own place" - it is separate but close enough that you can check on her as often as needed.  But she's not "in your space" or in your face all the time.

You might end up having to help with cleaning "once in a while" - but she can be a lot more independent than if she's living in the same house. 

And make her sign a lease - so if she doesn't pay rent, she can be ousted legally.  Based on her age, I'd suggest a large studio or possibly what I've seen called a "bachelor" - the sleeping area isn't a completely different room but it is set up to be out of the line of sight of the living & cooking areas - instead of using the living area as a sleeping area by folding out a sofa into a bed or bringing one down from the wall (Murphy bed).

Different entrance, tiny side yard that could be "just for her" if your family doesn't want to socialize with Grandma 24/7 - but she's not going to take much time to check on if you don't see/hear from her for a couple of days & wonder if she fell or something.

At 78, things can go very wrong very quickly (75 year old mother, 78 year old father & mother-in-law, and an 80 year old father-in-law).
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Browyn on January 08, 2013, 08:14:50 AM
Are you in the US?  Try looking into elderly housing, many of them are subsidized based on income and are very nice.

I speak from experience.  My MIL (who I like) was living in Florida but moved back to New England when I was expecting.  She was supposed to stay with us for a few weeks while she found a place.  She found something wrong with every place we showed her because she wanted to stay with us and THE BABY.  After 3 months my husband sat her down and told her - here are a list of elderly apartments, get on the waiting list.  You will be moving out on XYZ date, and I have made you reservations at long term motel if you don't have your arraignments made by then.

She didn't believe us.  Right up to when I put her bags in her car "how will you manage with the baby when I am not here?  Don't worry Mom I'll do fine!"  She stayed in the motel for 2 weeks before she went to elderly housing.  You have to be strong and not give in.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Ladybugs on January 08, 2013, 08:28:26 AM
Earlier in post, there were some posters who for some odd reason assumed she wasn't a senior and used that as part of their reasoning for why it would be ok to have her move out. I didn't see where that idea she's not that old anyways, was coming from, but now that we know she is quite elderly, there are several issues that should be seen in that context. What a 56 year old issues are is diferent than an 80 yr old.....

*** ask her if she will see a doctor soon, to see if anything medical especially SENIOR related is causing the irritability.....she's nearly 80, she is in and even past the age where some issues like this start to kick in....

Please consider this, there is no downside to her seeing a doctor, everyone is hurriedly talking about apartment hunting.....I would hit the pause button and sit down to consider the reality of her old age and the senior care issues, those are the reality. Alot diferent than helping a young person find an apartment

There are social services and elder care agencies that can help you....especially an agency that's specifically to help seniors, they know what issues relate to seniors and advocate for their well being so they probably have alot of info on medically related issues, such as depression in seniors, early onset dementia, if any of these turn out to be one of the issues,whatever all those are plus housing, legal etc

Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Sophia on January 08, 2013, 08:35:06 AM
Autumn Rose, your list of options is VERY imcomplete.

One thing you could do is to make doing ANYTHING for your mother contingent on her setting up a financial plan.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Ladybugs on January 08, 2013, 08:50:12 AM
Whileyfool,

I didn't see that she wrote it "broke up" her marriage as you put it...that's taking a liberty in stretching what she said....but the thing about her helping to "raise her son" ...(I certainly hope nobody would even want to downplay such an act, then we would have to minimize the importance of what devoted stay at home moms do

I wonder why you only highlighted "and it benefited her financially " but didnt highlight the more weighty part of her statement that the care grandma provided "was invaluable"

The op told us, the care was " invaluable"

Certain things people do for us, even if we pay them some amount, whatever money we may offer them can't really compare with the value of what they did. Its kind of downplaying the value of what she did.....She says her helping raise her son was invaluable....
Its kind of insulting to downplay the act of a grandparent helping raise a grandchild...

I would hope anyone would see the value in a grandparent helping to raise their grandchild ...there are many grandparents who won't do anything more than occasionally babysit. And some wont even do that much...i feel like the value of what she did got yotaly overlooked and thats pretty sad.....Helping rasie a grandchild is imvaluable, Especially more so if the parent is on their own as a single parent the value is so much more

Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Petticoats on January 08, 2013, 09:09:43 AM
Ladybugs, the fact is that the OP's mom's help with babysitting DS is in the past. The present is that her presence is causing stress in the OP's marriage and immediate family unit. Right now, the mom's presence--a critical and parasitic one--is doing active damage to the OP's life.

I would hope anyone would see the value in a grandparent helping to raise their grandchild ...there are many grandparents who won't do anything more than occasionally babysit. And some wont even do that much...i feel like the value of what she did got yotaly overlooked and thats pretty sad.....Helping rasie a grandchild is imvaluable, Especially more so if the parent is on their own as a single parent the value is so much more

I don't think anybody's saying the OP's mom's help in the past was negligible. And I think it's pointless to imply that her presence is desirable now simply because a lot of kids don't have their grandparents present. Presence does not necessarily equal benefit, or at least not enough to outweigh the problems she's creating. I get the feeling that you're arguing a very general case about appreciating grandparents that doesn't take into consideration the very real problems and stresses that the OP's mom's presence is creating.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: sevenday on January 08, 2013, 09:20:23 AM
It's possible to be appreciative of one's help in the past and still not have 'room' for them in the current situation, especially if their presence is damaging what exists.   People and situations change.  I do agree with other PPs - don't buy the house.  You can offer to help with the down payment and get her in somewhere, but as you said it will delay your own moving.  I would check in the area for any "elder services/assistance" type organizations; they may know how to find the right place, and how to move her into it with minimal financial impact to both of you.   This is not something that you're going through alone. Many families struggle with  how to care for/deal with elderly relatives.  I've seen how it can affect families... for better or worse.  I do think you need to sit down with her, if nothing else, and explain that her behavior and choices are negatively affecting the family.  Explain that you are looking for ways to move her out on her own, for the good of everybody.  If she's got a lot of energy she might feel cooped up now, so suggest a 'retirement' community - the ones around here are all laid out as either small bungalows or as apartment buildings.   They'd be better social-life wise, and most are rent-controlled based on income.   At her age it would be easy to prove need.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: TootsNYC on January 08, 2013, 10:30:23 AM
one thing to remember when thinking "how can we help her?" is to not forget that you should not be overlooking your own limitations.

I can't help people move a piano by lifting, because I'm simply not strong enough. Or tall enough.
I can help them by holding a door open.
I can help them by suggesting they call a piano movers to find out how much it would cost.
I can help them move a piano by rigging up a ramp to roll it, maybe.

But I can't lift it.

So when you're figuring out, "How can we help my mom move out," remember that your family's limitations are VERY important.

So you probably can't help her by giving her money.
You can help her by giving her boundaries--and thinking of those boundaries as a way to help her may make it easier to phrase things, or to recognize how valuable it will be for HER.



(also, in the meantime, every time she criticizes something, say, "Mom, you don't seem happy here in our home." Get her started along the pathway to recognizing that this is very likely to be part of her unhappiness.")
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: poundcake on January 08, 2013, 10:56:23 AM
Toots, I want to give your post a standing ovation. And cupcakes.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Ladybugs on January 08, 2013, 01:46:04 PM
Petticoats,  the fact is the op wrote as one of her highlighted bullet points that grandma "helped raise my son"  which she descrived " invaluable"  this is alot diferent than "helping babysit"  it is not what she said. A parent who sits here and there for a.couple hours when the parents go to dinner is totaly not the same as helping raise a grandchild. That diminishes the significance of what she did. 
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: LibraryLady on January 08, 2013, 02:37:20 PM
My mother is in a place called " assisted living" - she has a bedroom; bathroom, small living room and room for table with small refrigerator and microwave with sink.  They have communal meals.  Would that be a possibility?  (I didn't see a place live that mentioned previously).
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: rashea on January 08, 2013, 02:40:22 PM
My mother is in a place called " assisted living" - she has a bedroom; bathroom, small living room and room for table with small refrigerator and microwave with sink.  They have communal meals.  Would that be a possibility?  (I didn't see a place live that mentioned previously).

This might be an option if you can find a place that starts with full regular apartments, and has assisted living and finally a nursing home. She might make that transition better. Some provide food, some don't. Quite a few provide transportation and cleaning services. A local Area Agency on Aging can help with some of that.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: lurkerwisp on January 08, 2013, 03:10:20 PM
My grandmother lives in assisted living.  Her being forcibly moved there (by a judge, not by the family) was the very best thing that's happened in the long saga of dealing with her and her living situation since Grandpa died.  They provide meals, transportation, social activities, and as she finds that she needs more help with daily tasks she can scale up the help they provide.  She didn't need as much help after she first got settled, but now they're doing some of her laundry (they do sheets and blankets, since they're too heavy) and if things get worse she can move into their nursing care facility.  The location she's in also has separate detached homes, duplexes and apartments available for people who don't need as much assistance.

It is incredibly healthy to put space between you and an increasingly unpleasant family member before they become so toxic to your family that you can't remember the good person they used to be.  I have learned this from regrettable experience.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Jeremy on January 08, 2013, 04:20:27 PM
It is incredibly healthy to put space between you and an increasingly unpleasant family member before they become so toxic to your family that you can't remember the good person they used to be.  I have learned this from regrettable experience.

Unfortunately this is often the case.  They may not appreciate the decision to begin with, but everyone ends up happier in the long run.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: QueenfaninCA on January 08, 2013, 06:20:43 PM
2.   DH and I find her a dwelling (obviously safe, nice).   We could put down the downpayment - she would pay the mortgage (which would be LESS  than what she would pay in rent).   

Whatever you do, do not do this. What happens if she stops paying the mortgage and you only find out when the foreclosure happens?

If you want to buy her a place, buy it and you pay the mortgage and charge her whatever amount of rent you deem reasonable. Before you buy make sure that if push comes to shove you can pay the mortgage even without any financial contribution from her.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Ladybugs on January 08, 2013, 07:07:17 PM
Autumn rose

Given her advanced age, I think the most realistic replies are the ones that frame their advice in the context of her advanced age...since you said you want advice on ways to help her, Rather than just quick advice on how to oust her, I would

** ask if she's willing to see a doctor to be screened for any possible underlying issue that is age related, such as depression, early stage of Alzheimer's etc etc and then address those if any apply

** frame whatever help you provide within the context of her age, make sure its relevant to her age. If she was 48 it would be reasonable to simply get her into apartment. At 78, that is a whole other thing. She is in need of something beyond just a pad to live. Sme others here have addressed this really well....even if she seems healthy now, things can change fast at that age. If your dead set against her continuing to live out the remainder of her years with you, The recommendations to help her fnd senior housing is excellent advice. I know someone who's parents run a senior agency, they are advocate for seniors well being and protection, and have tons of info and resources on housing, healthcare, end of life issues, etc. others recommended getting the help of one of these elder care agencies as you navigate your way in the process
This will help avoid a disaster of making some quick plan that fails later bc it was not relevant to her old age
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Octavia on January 08, 2013, 07:58:03 PM
Autumn - don't know if this would work for you, but it worked for one of my neighbors who had a grown son who refused to move out. They found another apartment that had just enough room for them to live and no room for their son. They gave their son notice when their old lease had 30 days left and told them that he could not come with them. Finally, they did not give him a key to the new place. Worked like a charm.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Ladybugs on January 08, 2013, 08:54:17 PM
Octavia,  the op said in regards to her almost 80 yr old mother, that she wants to know how to **help her, **    ( not just to oust her)
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: NyaChan on January 08, 2013, 11:26:38 PM
It is incredibly healthy to put space between you and an increasingly unpleasant family member before they become so toxic to your family that you can't remember the good person they used to be.  I have learned this from regrettable experience.

Unfortunately this is often the case.  They may not appreciate the decision to begin with, but everyone ends up happier in the long run.

So so so true  :'(
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: fluffy on January 09, 2013, 08:05:26 AM
Whileyfool,

I didn't see that she wrote it "broke up" her marriage as you put it...that's taking a liberty in stretching what she said....but the thing about her helping to "raise her son" ...(I certainly hope nobody would even want to downplay such an act, then we would have to minimize the importance of what devoted stay at home moms do

I wonder why you only highlighted "and it benefited her financially " but didnt highlight the more weighty part of her statement that the care grandma provided "was invaluable"

The op told us, the care was " invaluable"

Certain things people do for us, even if we pay them some amount, whatever money we may offer them can't really compare with the value of what they did. Its kind of downplaying the value of what she did.....She says her helping raise her son was invaluable....
Its kind of insulting to downplay the act of a grandparent helping raise a grandchild...

I would hope anyone would see the value in a grandparent helping to raise their grandchild ...there are many grandparents who won't do anything more than occasionally babysit. And some wont even do that much...i feel like the value of what she did got yotaly overlooked and thats pretty sad.....Helping rasie a grandchild is imvaluable, Especially more so if the parent is on their own as a single parent the value is so much more

The OP said in an earlier post that the living situation is now getting to the point where even her son notices that Grandma is grumpy and somewhat unpleasant. I agree that the loving care of a grandparent can be invaluable for a child (my own parents are helping us out with daycare and I love that my daughter is getting that quality of care from them). But, it will very likely undo all of that loving care if the living situation is allowed to get so toxic that the OP's son starts resenting his grandmother.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Virg on January 09, 2013, 09:57:54 AM
Ladybugs wrote:

"I would hope anyone would see the value in a grandparent helping to raise their grandchild ...there are many grandparents who won't do anything more than occasionally babysit. And some wont even do that much...i feel like the value of what she did got yotaly overlooked and thats pretty sad.....Helping rasie a grandchild is imvaluable, Especially more so if the parent is on their own as a single parent the value is so much more"

You've spent a number of posts reiterating this idea, but in your turn you seem to be missing a very important part of Autumn Rose's post.  To quote her: "I am over it.   My husband  (and only through his generosity has it lasted THIS long) is over it. Even my darling son, (who adores his grandma)  is now old enough to recognize that she is constantly nagging."  Notwithstanding any value that her mother provided in the past, her present has put every member of her family including the grandson who benefitted from her efforts in the mind that the situation is unlivable.  She's spent the currency she earned to the point where Autumn Rose is asking for advice in getting her to leave, and discounting that because of the "invaluable" service she may have provided is going to lead to huge resentment, as evidenced by the fact that it already has.  This is hardly a snap decision, as she's been in their house "temporarily" due to her own financial mismanagement for six months now, isn't living up the the agreement established when she moved in, isn't working to find someplace on her own, and living with her is, in Autumn Rose's own words, a chore.  After all of this, simply addressing it as payback duty and suggesting that she try to find ways to make it work is more than a little insulting, as though she hasn't been trying for months already.  Autumn Rose herself said that she's reached her limit, so we should really try to take her at her word in that.

Virg
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Avant-Garde 1 on January 09, 2013, 12:00:58 PM
Autumn rose

Given her advanced age, I think the most realistic replies are the ones that frame their advice in the context of her advanced age...since you said you want advice on ways to help her, Rather than just quick advice on how to oust her, I would

** ask if she's willing to see a doctor to be screened for any possible underlying issue that is age related, such as depression, early stage of Alzheimer's etc etc and then address those if any apply

** frame whatever help you provide within the context of her age, make sure its relevant to her age. If she was 48 it would be reasonable to simply get her into apartment. At 78, that is a whole other thing. She is in need of something beyond just a pad to live. Sme others here have addressed this really well....even if she seems healthy now, things can change fast at that age. If your dead set against her continuing to live out the remainder of her years with you, The recommendations to help her fnd senior housing is excellent advice. I know someone who's parents run a senior agency, they are advocate for seniors well being and protection, and have tons of info and resources on housing, healthcare, end of life issues, etc. others recommended getting the help of one of these elder care agencies as you navigate your way in the process
This will help avoid a disaster of making some quick plan that fails later bc it was not relevant to her old age

Ladybugs, I think we understand your stance on the situation. I don't know that shooting down everyone else's suggestions is fair.

OP has said she wants to help her yes, but the request is to assist in finding alternate arrangements for her mother. She knows what's best for her family and I feel we should respect her in that.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Sophia on January 09, 2013, 12:06:14 PM
Aren't the apartments that feed onto the assisted living then nursing homes more expensive?  If she is completely able-bodied and poor, it might be better to start her out in a small cheap normal apartment.  Then worry about assisted living when it really is needed. 
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: rashea on January 09, 2013, 12:10:24 PM
Aren't the apartments that feed onto the assisted living then nursing homes more expensive?  If she is completely able-bodied and poor, it might be better to start her out in a small cheap normal apartment.  Then worry about assisted living when it really is needed.

They can be, but they can also be covered by assistance fro the government or insurance.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Petticoats on January 09, 2013, 12:11:18 PM
Petticoats,  the fact is the op wrote as one of her highlighted bullet points that grandma "helped raise my son"  which she descrived " invaluable"  this is alot diferent than "helping babysit"  it is not what she said. A parent who sits here and there for a.couple hours when the parents go to dinner is totaly not the same as helping raise a grandchild. That diminishes the significance of what she did.

You're missing my point, Ladybugs, which is that the mother's actions in the past are less important than her effect on the OP's household in the present.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Wordgeek on January 09, 2013, 02:45:11 PM
Ladybugs, you've made the same point a number of times now so, unless you have something new to add, move on.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Marbles on January 10, 2013, 02:50:39 AM

I think it boils down to this...I love my mother.   I want to do everything I can for her  (as does my husband).
But at what sacrifice?

[snip]
3.   Offering a certain "stipend" a month to help cover her costs.  $100?   $200?     
      Anything we give is money down the drain....that is why the idea of us buying her something is more appealing.

Additional background:
   
She is 78 years old.    She rocks it out.   Some days she has more energy than me.   Seriously.   
However, I have to acknowledge that there is the elder /aging aspect that will have to be addressed in a few more years.

I have set a precedent by letting her stay with me on and off.   Her watching my son was invaluable (and it benefited her financially)
But her constant presence was not good for my 10 year relationship with DS dad.   I will not allow this to cause havoc on my marriage.

5 Years ago - I recognized that she was not in good financial shape.    She absolutely REFUSED to let me help her come up with a long term financial plan.    (I didn't force her...and now look where I am).

This is tough.   Hard.   A Mindblowing/guilt inducing scenario.   

I suppose the right answer is the one you can live with.  And I love the pp who said  "how can we HELP her"  vs.  "how can I oust her".

(heavy sigh)    What would you do?

She is an adult who has chosen not to mind her money nor to let you help her with it. She gets to live with the consequences of that mismanagement. One of those consequences is that her choices for places to live are limited. You do not have to walk her through the possibilities, nor research them for her, but it would be kind to do so.

Another consequence is that she should not be trusted with any money you chose to give to support her. Pay anything like water, gas, electric directly. (Don't take on her phone bill unless it's a cell with unlimited long distance; don't ask me how I know this.  ;) )

She is also a person who is making no effort to be pleasant to the people who are supporting her. One consequence of this is that you want her out of your house. This is reasonable.

Have you actually sat down with her and told her how she's making you all feel? Can you come up with a code phrase ("Ma, you're doing it again.") to let her know she needs to back off with the mean comments? She may be 78, but I don't believe that she can't change her actions if she chooses to. Even if she does change, I would still pursue getting her her own place.

You may not be able to help her see what she is doing to your family. She may justify or deny that she is doing it. Tough. This is not something that your DH should have to put up with, it's not something that you want demonstrated in front of your son, it's not the memories that you want to be building with her.

You do not need her permission to make changes in your home.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: dhk on January 10, 2013, 06:57:41 AM


Do not under any circumstances do the 'in law apt' or duplux option.  I follow an eldercare message board and the outcome for the carer is dreadful. 

Often the elder will not understand the concept of privacy and will be in your place all day long or call 1000 times a day wanting you to do something for them.  It's important to have a certain amount of distance between you.

Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Perfect Circle on January 10, 2013, 07:17:02 AM


Do not under any circumstances do the 'in law apt' or duplux option.  I follow an eldercare message board and the outcome for the carer is dreadful. 

Often the elder will not understand the concept of privacy and will be in your place all day long or call 1000 times a day wanting you to do something for them.  It's important to have a certain amount of distance between you.

That isn't universally true. I know people who share close living arrangements with their elderly parents very happily - it is very much dependant on the relationships and types of people involved. In the same vein I don't believe anyone has to accommodate their elderly parents just because "it's the right thing to do". It isn't always.

It clearly isn't right for the OP, so I would suggest trying to find alternative living quarters for the mother without financially tying herself into those arrangements. If financial help is available from elsewhere, perhaps she can help her mother to try to find out all the options. I hope the situation sorts itself out.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: VorFemme on January 10, 2013, 10:47:17 AM
I could do the duplex with my parents or ILs - based on having lived in the same town (at one time, two doors down the same street from my parents' house for several years).  Both mothers are introverts who would only ask for help when NEEDED.  The fathers are a little harder to figure out - DH could handle his father, I could handle mine - but as both are a good five or six hour drive away right now - we won't be the first choice of who to call.

The ILs have their daughter living in town and two of the early twenties grandkids staying with them "for now" (long story) but it seems to be working "for now".  My parents have a brother living close than I do (by about two hours) and they still drive themselves most places.

But I must admit that we are lucky that way.  Not everyone is.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: NyaChan on January 10, 2013, 11:05:25 AM


Do not under any circumstances do the 'in law apt' or duplux option.  I follow an eldercare message board and the outcome for the carer is dreadful. 

Often the elder will not understand the concept of privacy and will be in your place all day long or call 1000 times a day wanting you to do something for them.  It's important to have a certain amount of distance between you.

That isn't universally true. I know people who share close living arrangements with their elderly parents very happily - it is very much dependant on the relationships and types of people involved. In the same vein I don't believe anyone has to accommodate their elderly parents just because "it's the right thing to do". It isn't always.

It clearly isn't right for the OP, so I would suggest trying to find alternative living quarters for the mother without financially tying herself into those arrangements. If financial help is available from elsewhere, perhaps she can help her mother to try to find out all the options. I hope the situation sorts itself out.

I've seen it work very well for family friends, so I wouldn't completely write it off.  Still, I think in the OP's situation, something that gives her family more distance would be better.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: BarensMom on January 10, 2013, 11:19:33 AM
OP, you should really look into a senior apartment complex for your mother.  Since your mother is on a fixed income, she would probably qualify for housing assistance, which is based on her income.  Contact the housing authority in your area.

My SIL is in one of those communities and most of the cost of her rent is covered.  She only pays a "peppercorn" amount, due to her income status.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: lurkerwisp on January 10, 2013, 12:40:13 PM
Aren't the apartments that feed onto the assisted living then nursing homes more expensive?  If she is completely able-bodied and poor, it might be better to start her out in a small cheap normal apartment.  Then worry about assisted living when it really is needed.

The apartments that feed into assisted living also guarantee that you will have a spot in the assisted living or nursing home that they feed into.  There are often very long waiting lists if you're not already in the system.  Rushing to find an open spot in a nursing home or assisted living place when it is very much necessary is not an ideal situation.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: trailgrrl on January 10, 2013, 01:15:33 PM
Two separate scenarios.   My MIL moved in with us temporarily several years ago to escape a situation where she was being financially exploited by another family member.  We (My husband and I) got her back in control of her own finances and another family member of mine was able to get her in touch with a subsidized senior housing complex about 15 miles away and she has been happily living in what I jokingly call the 'Hen House' about 10 years now.  She neither owns a car nor drives.  The other ladies have taught her how to use public transportation, or the the ladies that do have cars drive her around.

My BFFs mother on the other hand has lived with my BFF and her family for about the same amount of time.   SHe is also on a limited income and positively delighted in causing trouble within the family.  My BFF bought a house that they were able to have modified into a bed/bath/sitting room suite for her privacy. The mother earlier this year got it into her head that my friend was dependant on her mother's goodwill and money (not so) and was invited to by all means to find another living situation. 

There is other back history here that I won't go into but suffice it to say my prediction to my friend that no way in heck was her mom going to leave voluntarily came to pass.  However the flip side is that my friend is now MUCH less accommodating of her mother's whims and mom now know that there is NO WAY that she would be able to live the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed if she moved into senior housing and has become *much* more pleasant to live with.

My advice is this.  Do what my friend did.  Tell mom that it's not working and you think *she* would be happier in her own place and then give her direction to subsidized senior housing complexes in your area (if you're in the US they should be listed on your county or township website or Area Agency on Aging Website).   You can take one of two directions, either make it clear that she is required to leave, or make it clear if she would like to stay she needs to readjust her attitude. >:D

Good luck OP, it's a tough situation
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: jedikaiti on January 11, 2013, 01:05:05 AM
Aren't the apartments that feed onto the assisted living then nursing homes more expensive?  If she is completely able-bodied and poor, it might be better to start her out in a small cheap normal apartment.  Then worry about assisted living when it really is needed.

The apartments that feed into assisted living also guarantee that you will have a spot in the assisted living or nursing home that they feed into.  There are often very long waiting lists if you're not already in the system.  Rushing to find an open spot in a nursing home or assisted living place when it is very much necessary is not an ideal situation.

Also the additional upheaval for the mother can make trying to a) convince her she needs to move, and b) actually getting her moved and settled into quite the traumatic experience. But, if it's more gradual, say, getting more in-home helpers coming by, then just moving down the hall, then just into another segment of the same community, it can be MUCH MUCH easier for all concerned.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: peach2play on January 11, 2013, 10:19:57 AM
You are going to have to accept the emotional consequences of your requests.  What you are asking us for is a polite way to tell your mother to get out which is saying, "How can I get what I want with out having to deal with the consequences ie emotional guilt, blackmail, and pain?"  The answer, you can't.  You either stiffen your spine, and know that no matter what you do, there's going to be fallout, or you endure the situation that is. 

You can't have it both ways.  You must choose what is more important to you, your child and husband, or your mother.  Doing nothing about it is making a decision as well.  You can do it and it will be worth it in many ways.  You are not being unreasonable, you are not being cruel, you are protecting your family.  She will pitch a fit and try and make you feel guilty, don't let her.  She doesn't want to change.  Change would mean she would have to accept the consequences of her financial decisions.  That she might have to accept that she's failed. 
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Virg on January 14, 2013, 09:50:02 AM
peach2play wrote:

"You are going to have to accept the emotional consequences of your requests.  What you are asking us for is a polite way to tell your mother to get out which is saying, "How can I get what I want with out having to deal with the consequences ie emotional guilt, blackmail, and pain?""

There's a vast difference between what you said and "How can I ask my mother to move out while staying within the bounds of etiquette" and your perception of her request is extremely unkind at the very least.  I prefer to assume that she understands the implications of what she's doing and is seeking advice on minimizing the blowback that might be caused by her own behavior.

Virg
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Redneck Gravy on January 14, 2013, 10:04:53 AM

My advice is this.  Do what my friend did.  Tell mom that it's not working and you think *she* would be happier in her own place and then give her direction to subsidized senior housing complexes in your area (if you're in the US they should be listed on your county or township website or Area Agency on Aging Website).   You can take one of two directions, either make it clear that she is required to leave, or make it clear if she would like to stay she needs to readjust her attitude. >:D

Good luck OP, it's a tough situation

This and isn't this the bottom line to what you want anyway, an improvement in attitude or an exit? 

Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: peach2play on January 14, 2013, 02:03:47 PM
peach2play wrote:

"You are going to have to accept the emotional consequences of your requests.  What you are asking us for is a polite way to tell your mother to get out which is saying, "How can I get what I want with out having to deal with the consequences ie emotional guilt, blackmail, and pain?""

There's a vast difference between what you said and "How can I ask my mother to move out while staying within the bounds of etiquette" and your perception of her request is extremely unkind at the very least.  I prefer to assume that she understands the implications of what she's doing and is seeking advice on minimizing the blowback that might be caused by her own behavior.

Virg
The OP has a mother who is overly critical, and selfish in her own words.  Who she feels indebted to because she did have a good childhood and her mother watched her child (even though the mother was paid to do so).  Her mother has refused any financial counseling and will more than likely be a financial responsibility on the OP for the near future.  She has said that she has trouble having a shiny spine ie setting boundaries with her mother.  I'm not saying be impolite, but what I'm saying is, there is no easy way for her to have this conversation with her mother.  She can be polite, but I'm betting her mother won't be which is probably why she hasn't been able to set boundaries yet.  Deep down inside, she's afraid of her mother's reaction, knowing from past experience that this is going to be lots of battles and her mom isn't going to fight fair, using guilt, emotional blackmail, etc.  She's going to have to make a choice to face that fear and pain.  What I was trying to convey is that it will be worth it.  It will suck short term, but long term, it'll be worth it and the pain will not last forever.  She can do it.
Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: Sophia on January 14, 2013, 03:15:46 PM
...She can do it.

Go, Autumn Rose, Go! 
Go, Autumn Rose, Go!

We are cheering for you.

I have been thinking about the list of possibilities you posted earlier.  I think any of them would be workable if certain conditions were agreed to by your mother. 

For example, you mentioned buying a rental property and letting her live in it.  That would be workable if she agreed to have her SS deposited into your account, and then the remainder after rent moved to her account.  Basically, you will be paid first.  I know, not likely.

Her continuing to live with you, sounds like it would work if she 1) paid the past rent 2) paid on time in the future 3) was a pleasant person.

If she doesn't like either of the above, well then, she can have until X date to get her butt out of your home. 
Title: courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Not an update - but a thank u
Post by: Autumn Rose on January 15, 2013, 10:12:49 PM
Thank you.

A gratitude of love is being sent you way.    I knew I could count on you to help!    8)


I have listened to your suggestions, comments and wise words.   
(and I think I am in love with some of you!   LOL)


I am working 11 hour days right now.    Then home, homework, husband, mother, bedtime, etc......My response time is limited.   LOL

But your opinions are important to me...and I will continue to listen...

Lord knows I need the help!    :)

Thank you!
Title: Re: courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Not an update - but a thank u
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 15, 2013, 10:20:33 PM
Thank you.

A gratitude of love is being sent you way.    I knew I could count on you to help!    8)


I have listened to your suggestions, comments and wise words.   
(and I think I am in love with some of you!   LOL)


I am working 11 hour days right now.    Then home, homework, husband, mother, bedtime, etc......My response time is limited.   LOL

But your opinions are important to me...and I will continue to listen...

Lord knows I need the help!    :)

Thank you!

Take care of yourself, Autumn Rose!

Title: Re: The courteous way to oust my mother from my home *Update?
Post by: lovepickles on February 05, 2013, 11:46:29 AM
Autumn Rose I didn't realize your mom was almost 80. I was thinking she was in her late 50s or 60s for some reason. My earlier advice seems out of touch, my apologies.

I would suggest that this week you sit down and arrange for her to get into talk therapy and/or psych evaluation. It might not be cheap but worth every penny if she is willing to go. She might also need medication or a modification to her diet and extra exercise. I'd give that a couple of months and if it didn't improve I would look into long term care options. In the meantime SHUT DOWN her criticisms. Do not engage. When she does rip into you tell her how you feel and what you would like for her to say to you if she wants to communicate.

Hang in there.

<3