Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: Otterpop on January 04, 2013, 10:49:43 PM

Title: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 04, 2013, 10:49:43 PM
My DD, 17, was to go on her first overnight Anime' convention with a good friend "G" whom she's know for several years.  G organized the event, booked a hotel room and handpicked HER friends to occupy it with parental approval (DD did not know the other girls but G's mom assured me they were responsible and friendly).  As a result, DD spent this past year saving money, making her cos-play, studying for panels and scheduling events so the 3 days would be jam packed with activities from morning into late evening.

The night before the convention, 364 days after initiating this venture, G called DD and said she wasn't going.  With DD in tears I called the girl who said she felt "religiously convicted" against going.  Mind you, she's attended dozens of other Anime' events.  I even drove her and DD back and forth to one last year (2 hours round trip, once in morning then again to pick them up in the evening - Whew!!!  Hence the hotel room this year).  I said I respected her convictions but keeping your commitments when time, effort, money and emotions have been invested, was important as well.  I ended the conversation telling her that DD would have to back out of the hotel agreement/attending because she didn't know the other girls.  She was relying on G to introduce her and be a companion for the event.   Her mom called me immediately after and tried to defend her daughter.  I just stated we were blindsided at the last minute, disappointed and would do what we could to salvage the situation.

As of right now I am frustrated, angry and am driving DD back and forth so she can meet up w/ other friends during the day.  It  was 4 hours of driving again.  How do I go forward with relations with this mom and G?  Am I overreacting?  Is this an issue that should result in a cut direct?  (We've had one other flake-out in the past, but it was mild.  This feels nuclear!)
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: kudeebee on January 04, 2013, 11:08:22 PM
I don't think you are overreacting.  It is hard to believe that the other girl, at the last minute, felt that she could not go.  I would assume that she has known this for awhile, but may not have had the courage to call and tell everyone until the last moment.  It is not right.

I don't think this deserves the cut direct.  I would be polite when you see them, but not go out of my way to spend time with them/talk with them.  I definitely would not let dd plan anything with this girl again as there have now been two incidents where she has flaked on your dd/family.

It is nice that you are driving dd back and forth so that she can attend.  I am sure your dd appreciates what you are doing for her.  Focus on that.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: JenJay on January 04, 2013, 11:11:57 PM
I've never been to an event like you describe and have no idea what goes in to preparing for one, so I'm not much help with advice. I would like to offer hugs for your DD, though. I'm sorry her friend's sudden religious/moral shift has impacted her in such a way. I'm glad for her that you've been able to shuttle her back and forth so that it wasn't a total loss. What we moms will do for our brokenhearted kids, huh?!

I, too, would have backed out of the shared accommodations and I'd probably pull back from the friendship. I definitely wouldn't make any kind of plans or commitments with her again. You may have to respect her convictions but you don't have to risk getting tangled up in them again.  :-\
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: bloo on January 04, 2013, 11:19:48 PM
I've never been to an event like you describe and have no idea what goes in to preparing for one, so I'm not much help with advice. I would like to offer hugs for your DD, though. I'm sorry her friend's sudden religious/moral shift has impacted her in such a way. I'm glad for her that you've been able to shuttle her back and forth so that it wasn't a total loss. What we moms will do for our brokenhearted kids, huh?!

I, too, would have backed out of the shared accommodations and I'd probably pull back from the friendship. I definitely wouldn't make any kind of plans or commitments with her again. You may have to respect her convictions but you don't have to risk getting tangled up in them again.  :-\

I agree with JenJay.

I'm very sorry for you and your DD. Hugs to both of you. :(
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 04, 2013, 11:34:59 PM
Thanks for the hugs and the advise.  It helps.  I agree with keeping my distance.  Not hard to do as we live in different cities (they met at camp).  I often had G stay for days at my home so the girls could hang out.  Not as much reciprocation on their part, but G was friendly and bright and DD really liked her.   She is going to attend college near us and her mom seemed keen on us having a connection.  I don't intend to foster that at this point. 

BTW we share the same faith, but I'm sensing a fundamental shift on their side.  The whole "conviction" speech sounded extreme.  I never knew Japanese cartoons could be considered "evil" and G has been going to conventions for years.  All I know is the rug was pulled out from under us.

Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: NyaChan on January 05, 2013, 12:09:28 AM
Regardless of her reasons, she should have informed you much, much sooner.  I am so sorry that your DD's experience of the convention was marred by this girl's inconsiderate behavior.  Having backed out at the last second, one would think that the family would have at least had the good grace to be apologetic, but it seems their convictions don't include feeling remorse.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: JoyinVirginia on January 05, 2013, 12:33:30 AM
If these folks live in another city, you can easily give them cut direct, just cease communication, unfriend from Facebook, etc. I have attended a couple of anime conventions, I completely understand how things were set up and that this is BIG mistake on friends part. Of course she did not decide the day before to not go to the convention! She had to have been considering this for a while. Maybe something else came up that is more attractive to her, and the conviction thing is an excuse.
I vote cut direct, or at very least minimal communication and no more invites to your house.

Cosplay is dressing up as favorite characters and sometimes joining with a group to perform a scene or skit, there are competitions for best costume usually. A really good anime convention will have guests who are voice actors, writers, artists, musicians, people from production companies, ask talking about what goes into making anime, being a professional writer or musician or all kinda of topics like that.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TootsNYC on January 05, 2013, 01:38:55 AM
I thnk you were wrong to call up the other girl and chastise her directly.

At 17, they should be handling it between themselves, and your role should be to support your daughter.  You could make all those points to her, but it's not appropriate for a grownup to interject herself into the situation in that way.
   It's a form of throwing your weight around, because as a much-older adult and a partial parental figure, you really outrank her. You need to be careful not to play that card.
   And if you think parents should have been involved, then you should have gone to the other parent to make your point.

If they'd been younger, you should have gone to the other parent. But now that they're older, that doesn't mean you go to the other kid--it means you butt out.

As for how to react--I think that, too, is not your business. This is your daughter's friend, her life, and she should decide how she wants to handle it.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Emmy on January 05, 2013, 06:41:48 AM
Regardless of her reasons, she should have informed you much, much sooner.  I am so sorry that your DD's experience of the convention was marred by this girl's inconsiderate behavior.  Having backed out at the last second, one would think that the family would have at least had the good grace to be apologetic, but it seems their convictions don't include feeling remorse.

This girl has an interesting set of convictions.  Suddenly going to a similar conference she has attending several times before is against her convictions.  Backing out at the last second, breaking a commitment to not only DD but the other girls, and not being apologetic or offering to pay back DD or the other friends (at least that wasn't expressed on this post) does not seem to be against her convictions.  She should have either backed out much earlier or kept her commitment to accompany her friends to the hotel and just stayed away from the convention if she felt convicted not to go. 
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Sharnita on January 05, 2013, 07:33:17 AM
Mixed feelings. Epiphanies can't be scheduled - would have been more convenient flr Stephen if Paul had his road to  Damasciss experience earlier. Saying this girl should have said something sooner might not be realistic because it could be a brand new conviction.

Cooling the relationship seems like a natural outcome because they no longer share that interest. A sudden cut seems a bit OTT since distance creates a buffer anyway.

I do think DD had some options. She could.have gone anyway. Yes the other girls would have been strangers at first but then that is similar to camp and she has gone there. I don't blame her for being upset or choosing not to go but it seems like going was still a choice.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on January 05, 2013, 07:57:05 AM
I have to say, I'm rather suspicious of the sudden "convictions" that are so last minute when she never had a problem going before.  I might be wrong and it may be that fundamental shift, but in reading the OP, the feeling I instantly got was "The other girls decided they didn't want OP's DD there or someone else wanted to go and they decided to bump the DD to make room and made up this story to cover it"

Though I guess if OP is going to drive her daughter too and from anyway they could be easily caught in their lie so perhaps not.  The other option perhaps is that the girl got grounded and is now no longer allowed to go but was too embarrassed to tell your DD.

Either way, it's too bad they couldn't have said anything before now.  I wouldn't cut the girl out but I sure wouldn't commit to any plans like this again.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: rose red on January 05, 2013, 08:21:42 AM
I'm suspicious too.  A shift happened overnight and the exact day before the convention?

I agree with backing off on the friendship.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: MorgnsGrl on January 05, 2013, 08:27:58 AM
I don't think you're overreacting -- your DD was so disappointed, AND it caused a lot of work for you with all the driving. But it doesn't sound like you need the cut direct here, just a perfectly reasonable backing-off from the friendship. The whole thing sounds horrible and confusing. I do wonder if the story you've been given is inaccurate, but I don't know if you'll ever find out the truth, so probably best to take it at face value. Maybe your daughter will make friends with the other girls she was meant to room-share with and some good will come of the situation, at least. I hope she has fun at the convention even without the room.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Tea Drinker on January 05, 2013, 08:34:32 AM
They definitely should have given you and your daughter more notice and/or, from the sound of it, more of an apology. Even if the other girl now sincerely believes that she shouldn't attend anime cons, she knows that she has disappointed your daughter and complicated if not ruined her weekend's plans.

I wonder whether it wasn't your daughter's friend who suddenly feels a religious conviction against going, but one or both of her parents have decided it would be inappropriate, and she preferred to state it as her own changed belief than as "my Dad says I can't do this." That would make sense of the last-minute thing, if she had been trying to convince him otherwise. It's still cowardly and unfair to your daughter, but it makes a bit more sense of the timing, rather than an epiphany at just the time that happened to be least convenient for several other people.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: oopsie on January 05, 2013, 08:59:20 AM
Not cool, not cool at all. I would be very upset if it happened to me or my daughter. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but my first instinct would be to back away from the friendship as well.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 05, 2013, 09:17:00 AM
Toots, the girl is 19 and in community college, transferring to a university near me.  We've known G since both girls were in HS, my daughter is now a senior.  Calling G was in order because she had just called my daughter, DD was in tears and G was the organizer of the event.  I think she was plenty old enough and responsible enough for me to ask questions of and express grief to.  But, DD only, will deal with her from now on, if at all.

I've been very encouraging and supportive of this girl and her college efforts (even took her on a tour of the college near me before she decided to come here).  Maybe I've been too accommodating.  This was one of the few times G was going to reciprocate.  You are all right that I will should scale back.  I won't be rude, insulting or stew in anger.  I'm just going to be silent.

(BTW daughter is having a great time without her, or the other girls.  We're just dropping off at 10am and picking up again at 10pm.  4 hours of driving, grrrrrr...let it go, let it go...Thank you!!!)

Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Lynn2000 on January 05, 2013, 09:33:48 AM
OP, I think it's great you were able to take DD to this anyway, so she can still have some fun at the event. I would be extremely disappointed with G and I don't think I would want anything to do with her anymore. Not necessarily a cut direct as in, if you saw her on the street you'd walk on by ignoring her, but no need to help/encourage DD to be her friend any longer.

As you say, you've been accommodating to her in the past, and she hasn't reciprocated much, and now she's flaked out on something huge at the last minute. I'm not saying her religious beliefs couldn't be genuine and sudden, but if they are, she had a lot of other options besides doing what she did, such as going with DD to the hotel and socializing with her and the other girls but not actually attending the convention, or offering heartfelt apologies to DD for her disappointment and inconvenience.

I think you were okay to talk to the girl directly, for clarification of the sudden change in plans, since it seems like they were going to have a very definite effect on you--either you were going to be driving DD to the convention (which you did) or you weren't going to have the house to yourself that weekend any longer. I would want to get clarification personally too in that situation. I get the grey area with relations between young adult children; but the other girl is a legal adult, going to college, so she should be able to handle talking to another adult and hearing how her actions have inconvenienced her, not just her friend.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: DollyPond on January 05, 2013, 09:37:59 AM
I have to say, I'm rather suspicious of the sudden "convictions" that are so last minute when she never had a problem going before.  I might be wrong and it may be that fundamental shift, but in reading the OP, the feeling I instantly got was "The other girls decided they didn't want OP's DD there or someone else wanted to go and they decided to bump the DD to make room and made up this story to cover it"

Though I guess if OP is going to drive her daughter too and from anyway they could be easily caught in their lie so perhaps not.  The other option perhaps is that the girl got grounded and is now no longer allowed to go but was too embarrassed to tell your DD.

Either way, it's too bad they couldn't have said anything before now.  I wouldn't cut the girl out but I sure wouldn't commit to any plans like this again.

Yes and I would say that if DD sees G and her other friends at the convention she will know just how "strong" those moral convictions really are!
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on January 05, 2013, 03:24:07 PM
I've never been to a con, but DH once commissioned someone on Etsy to make a costume for me for Halloween (Skuld from Ah My Goddess) and it took a lot of work and was not cheap but it was beautifully done from the wig to the shoes. 

And I've heard of how much work people go through for these things, so I would be not only upset but livid in your DD's position, though I'm glad she still went so all that work didn't go to waste. 

I do hope for your DD's sake that she does not see G with the friends.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: EMuir on January 05, 2013, 03:36:21 PM
I have to say that you are the best parent ever for still driving her there.  I bet she will remember your kindness for a long time.  I bet she's having a great time and may meet new friends who she can stay with next year! Just write off G and move on, I do agree you were OK to chastise her for bowing out so late, because apparently her parents wouldn't have.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 05, 2013, 05:04:11 PM
Thank you.  We're making lemonade out of lemons and are feeling better.  My DH has taken on some of the responsibility of driving (unusual for him) so it's lightening the load and is "bonding" us.  It will all be funny, someday. 

DD is having a great time, has hooked up with other HS friends and has met some new.  We are periodically checking in through text and feel comfortable with the environment. 

As for G, she is definitely not there.  Her roomies are, but DD has not met up with them.  She read some of their twitter feed and they were MAD.  Apparently there's been some blow-back from other parents on the increased cost and having to drive (G was the PAID ride for 3 others).  Curiously, DD said G has been posting pictures of herself, alone, in cosplay (costumes) on Facebook.  If this were a "religious issue" wouldn't that be a no-no?  This gets weirder and weirder.  You all were probably right to think her parents pressured her not to go and she used the "personal conviction" route as an excuse.  We are definitely steering clear of them in the future.

I really, really appreciate the cooler heads here on this forum.  It's so hard when your in the midst of a dust up, to recognize your own responses.  You all are like a solid rudder in rough waters.  (My few close girlfriends concur with this forum). 

Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: LazyDaisy on January 05, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
My first thought wasn't that G had a new found religious conviction about anime or cosplay, but the sharing a hotel room at a convention with the group. 1) Perhaps some of the other girls were talking about drinking or hooking up with guys etc. and realized that she didn't want to be a part of the party atmosphere that a group of kids at a convention could entail. 2) Another idea is that she had a spat or something with one or more of the other girls before she decided to pull out but somehow reasoned that it would be causing drama if she said that was the reason. 3) The age difference could be a factor -- this girl (and probably her other friends) are, while only a few years older, moving into different stages in life. Hanging out with a girl who is still in high school, and isn't independent enough to drive herself or take public transportation might feel stiffling.

In any case, your daughter sounds like she's better off cooling on this friendship.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: DollyPond on January 05, 2013, 05:36:39 PM
  Curiously, DD said G has been posting pictures of herself, alone, in cosplay (costumes) on Facebook.  If this were a "religious issue" wouldn't that be a no-no? 

Maybe G did something that got her grounded by her parents and came up with this story as a cover so she wouldn't have to actually admit what she did.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on January 05, 2013, 05:46:01 PM
That's what I'm starting to think too.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Elfmama on January 05, 2013, 05:47:40 PM
My first thought wasn't that G had a new found religious conviction about anime or cosplay, but the sharing a hotel room at a convention with the group. 1) Perhaps some of the other girls were talking about drinking or hooking up with guys etc. and realized that she didn't want to be a part of the party atmosphere that a group of kids at a convention could entail.
If that was the case, wouldn't she have told the OP or her DD, so that she could warn them about these unsavory activities?  She didn't know that DD would pull out; what if she'd gone on as planned, just without G's presence? 
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 05, 2013, 05:53:58 PM
Yeah, her mom would have warned me.  She's way more conservative than I.  But, anything's possible...
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: LazyDaisy on January 05, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
My first thought wasn't that G had a new found religious conviction about anime or cosplay, but the sharing a hotel room at a convention with the group. 1) Perhaps some of the other girls were talking about drinking or hooking up with guys etc. and realized that she didn't want to be a part of the party atmosphere that a group of kids at a convention could entail.
If that was the case, wouldn't she have told the OP or her DD, so that she could warn them about these unsavory activities?  She didn't know that DD would pull out; what if she'd gone on as planned, just without G's presence?
Not necessarily and it's just one alternate theory since G's subsequent behavior doesn't appear she has a problem with the cosplay part. G could feel like she's the odd one out even though she initially organized the event and doesn't want to be teased for being the prude or goody-two-shoes. We've had stories on this site where people have initiated an activity, invited others and then had the others hijack the activity to turn it into something that wasn't the original intent. Also, perhaps I read it wrong, but it sounds like G is already out of her parent's house (in college near Otterpop) and some of the other girls are her college roommates so grounding by the parents would be...strange.

ETA: now that I reread a bit more -- all of this parental involvement is odd to me for girls of this age. It makes it sound like they are in middle school rather than in college, except for Otterpop's daughter.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: FoxPaws on January 05, 2013, 06:07:04 PM
I'm glad things are working out for your DD. She's lucky to have a Mom who has her back.

I think how to move forward may be a moot point. I suspect the people in her life who do not share G's recently acquired, deeply held convictions are going to be the next thing to go and the situation will resolve itself. It's even possible that her college plans will change once she starts factoring in her new beliefs.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: cicero on January 06, 2013, 03:42:12 AM
I'm sorry this happened to your DD but I'm glad that you have her back and she is able to enjoy the convention anyway.

I do think that by 12th grade (age 17?) your DD should handle this on her own, whether you knew the girl or not, but I understand why you did make the call to G.

Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: laceandbits on January 06, 2013, 09:14:06 AM
Shame she isn't also religiously convicted about hurting people and facing up to commitments and responsibilities.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 06, 2013, 09:59:00 AM
Shame she isn't also religiously convicted about hurting people and facing up to commitments and responsibilities.

That's exactly what I took away from this incident.  I'm of their same faith but I don't have "epiphanies" or "visions" that cause me to hurt other people.  The last time they bugged out on us it was because of "convictions" as well (My DD's birthday party...really?  Luckily 11 other people were coming).

I think this all had to do with money after all.  They'll have 2 at university now and money is tight.  Mom probably thought this con was a waste of G's resources.  I would have respected that explanation better.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: JenJay on January 06, 2013, 01:05:15 PM
Shame she isn't also religiously convicted about hurting people and facing up to commitments and responsibilities.

That's exactly what I took away from this incident.  I'm of their same faith but I don't have "epiphanies" or "visions" that cause me to hurt other people.  The last time they bugged out on us it was because of "convictions" as well (My DD's birthday party...really?  Luckily 11 other people were coming).

I think this all had to do with money after all.  They'll have 2 at university now and money is tight.  Mom probably thought this con was a waste of G's resources.  I would have respected that explanation better.

Sounds like they use "religious convictions" as an excuse to back out of plans because they know it can't really be argued with. I mean, who's going to say "I don't care about your stupid religious convictions. You promised!"? Nobody. Whereas if they just said "I don't feel like going anymore." or "It turns out I can't afford it. Sorry for the last minute notice." or whatever people would be justifiably upset. Super lame.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: weeblewobble on January 06, 2013, 01:16:50 PM
Is it wrong that I'd like to know how a birthday party conflicted with their convictions?
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Elfmama on January 06, 2013, 01:24:53 PM
Sounds like they use "religious convictions" as an excuse to back out of plans because they know it can't really be argued with.
And they don't seem to think that this puts their "religious convictions" in a really, really bad light.  All the way from  "Don't bother sending Susan an invitation.  She couldn't come to my party because of their religious beliefs, so her mother won't let her come to yours." to "Those Purple Feather people have really weird beliefs.  It's OK to make a costume, but not wear it in public."
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Yvaine on January 06, 2013, 01:31:51 PM
Shame she isn't also religiously convicted about hurting people and facing up to commitments and responsibilities.

That's exactly what I took away from this incident.  I'm of their same faith but I don't have "epiphanies" or "visions" that cause me to hurt other people.  The last time they bugged out on us it was because of "convictions" as well (My DD's birthday party...really?  Luckily 11 other people were coming).

I think this all had to do with money after all.  They'll have 2 at university now and money is tight.  Mom probably thought this con was a waste of G's resources.  I would have respected that explanation better.

I'm thinking "G blew the money on something else, assumed she could make it back, didn't, and panicked at the last second." And no, you are not overreacting to be upset. If I were your daughter, I'd be in a rage. I'm so glad she still got to go.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: PeterM on January 06, 2013, 01:48:01 PM
Is it wrong that I'd like to know how a birthday party conflicted with their convictions?

"Holy Toledo! I completely forgot we're Jehovah's Witnesses!"
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Melde on January 06, 2013, 03:11:33 PM

"Holy Toledo! I completely forgot we're Jehovah's Witnesses!"

I hate it when I do that!  :)
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 06, 2013, 03:55:21 PM
Heh, heh.  You guys are making me laugh!  No we're not JW, just protestant.  But there are varying degrees of liberalism/fundamentalism here as there are in basically every group on earth.  I try to be moderate and inclusive as a rule (I'm sure some would call me too permissive, others too uptight.  Bah humbug to both...)

The birthday party was declined (the night before) because G's mother felt she was being too social, not taking care of her family responsibilities, not spending enough time in her ministry at church.  I respected her decision and took it in stride.   DD was disappointed but we had 11 other people to have fun with.

This time G was the sole connection, the lynch pin of the entire operation.  This was NOT cool.

The con is over for DD, cut 1 day short because we're too exhausted from driving.  She had a good time on the 2 days she attended.  Next year she will be driving herself.  "Yee Haw!!!"  I wonder if G will be there...

Thank you wise posters for the marvelous input!!!  You've given me a lot to mull over.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TurtleDove on January 06, 2013, 04:27:41 PM
I think Toots and other PPs got it right that the parental involvement is way too much for the DD and G. I think the DD should handle itself and I don't think the OP did he any favors stepping in. I would have been furious had my parents done that to me when I was a senior in high school. Then again, 8 would have driven myself and saw this as an opportunity to make new friends, and it sounds like the DD did that :-)

OP, I don't know your daughter or the type of people she prefers to spend time with, but when I was her age I would back away from a friend whose mom is so involved in personal friendship issues to the point of chastising friends. In my opinion, it is best to arm kids and you g adults to fend for themselves, knowing their parents are there to support them.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Sharnita on January 06, 2013, 04:30:24 PM
I think once she flaked on hte party, especially due to religious convictions, there was some assumed risk in makeing plans with her. It doesn't mean that DD can't or shouldn't make plans but I definitely would let her take charge.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Lynn2000 on January 06, 2013, 04:45:15 PM
I think Toots and other PPs got it right that the parental involvement is way too much for the DD and G. I think the DD should handle itself and I don't think the OP did he any favors stepping in. I would have been furious had my parents done that to me when I was a senior in high school. Then again, 8 would have driven myself and saw this as an opportunity to make new friends, and it sounds like the DD did that :-)

OP, I don't know your daughter or the type of people she prefers to spend time with, but when I was her age I would back away from a friend whose mom is so involved in personal friendship issues to the point of chastising friends. In my opinion, it is best to arm kids and you g adults to fend for themselves, knowing their parents are there to support them.

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I got the impression her DD basically asked her for help with the situation, not that DD was handling it just fine and the OP overstepped her (which might make DD furious, as TurtleDove describes of herself). Also to me, the fact that the most viable solution involved a lot of sudden commitment (hours of driving) from the OP, means that the OP did need to be somewhat involved, quickly, since this all took place the night before the convention began. To me, it's a different situation than, say, G standing DD up for lunch at a nearby location, where it would be kind of weird for the OP to call G about it.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Jones on January 06, 2013, 07:20:58 PM
I'll admit it was 10 years ago, but when I was a senior in high school it was common for parents to be this involved in me/my friends' lives. I was the odd one out really, because my parents would go on long vacations and leave me home to work, but they made up for not meddling when they got home.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: baglady on January 06, 2013, 07:35:50 PM
I think Toots and other PPs got it right that the parental involvement is way too much for the DD and G. I think the DD should handle itself and I don't think the OP did he any favors stepping in. I would have been furious had my parents done that to me when I was a senior in high school. Then again, 8 would have driven myself and saw this as an opportunity to make new friends, and it sounds like the DD did that :-)

I assumed that the reason OP drove her daughter was because DD couldn't drive herself for some reason: Her parents couldn't spare the car for the entire day/weekend, or she doesn't have her license yet (I didn't get mine until late in my senior year), or she's still under 18 and lives in a place where driving hours for minors are restricted.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TootsNYC on January 06, 2013, 08:14:19 PM
it's not the driving I objected to--it's the calling the other girl and telling her how bad her behavior was.

If the parent needs to be involved, then the parent should be speaking to the other *parent*--otherwise, I think it should stay between the kids, and the OP should have kept her involvement to: speaking with and supporting and encouraging and offering perspective to her own daughter; and driving.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: misha412 on January 06, 2013, 08:26:04 PM
G is a legal adult at 19. The OP's DD is not at 17. The OP has had a relationship with G in the past. The OP was trusting G to help her DD get to and from the convention as well as being there to introduce her to the rest of the party. The OP and her DD were counting on G to live up to her end of the bargain. G did not.

The OP has a right to express her disappointment to another adult (G) about that person's actions.

If G and the OP's daughters were both under age, I would say the mother should call the other mother to express disappointment. But, once G became a legal adult ready to take on adult responsibilities (organizing an anime convention trip for a group) she is old enough for the OP to communicate directly with.

I will not comment on the reason why G cancelled. I think that point is moot to the discussion at this point. If I were the OP and her DD, I would distance G in the future. No need for a cut direct, but friendly strangers is about right.

Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TurtleDove on January 06, 2013, 09:43:41 PM
Also to me, the fact that the most viable solution involved a lot of sudden commitment (hours of driving) from the OP, means that the OP did need to be somewhat involved, quickly, since this all took place the night before the convention began.

To me, this is something between the OP and the DD. I don't see what calling G to express disappointment or to chastise her does other than muddy the waters.  Was the goal to somehow shame G into driving the DD? 

Regarding the DD asking the OP to step in (if that is what happens), if it were my daughter I would think I would coach her on how to handle it herself.  If the 19 year old is expected to handle adult interaction, I would especially want to "train" my 17 year old how to handle herself before she is off to fend for herself once she turns 18.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: MariaE on January 06, 2013, 11:44:13 PM
That's not an etiquette issue though, but a parenting one. And as such irrelevant/inappropriate for this forum.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Erich L-ster on January 07, 2013, 03:14:02 AM
I would stop one inch away from cut direct. I wouldn't initiate any contact but would speak to them when they initiate, but I would keep it short and distant.

They should be apologizing profusely, not making excuses.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 07, 2013, 07:51:26 AM
I would stop one inch away from cut direct. I wouldn't initiate any contact but would speak to them when they initiate, but I would keep it short and distant.

They should be apologizing profusely, not making excuses.

This exactly ^^^.  I don't expect any apology, just more justification so, no initiation from me.  I'm hoping DD will strengthen other friendships from now on.

P.S.  this resulted in A LOT of last minute scrambling from our family (yes, under 18 restricted driver), a distressed teen meltdown, and a year of saving, planning, preparing on DD's part.  I was forced to step in.  If a legal adult doesn't want to hear how they threw us into upheaval...don't throw us into upheaval. ::)  G's majority status, yet still close to DD's age, was precisely the reason I was comfortable letting her go overnight in the first place.  When DD's in college, and mostly handling her own affairs my input won't be necessary.  There are degrees of separation and HS is not there yet.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: bopper on January 07, 2013, 08:07:43 AM
Can you pay for a hotel and spend the night (to make it easier on you?)  It might be a good mom-daughter bonding time...unless the problem is that DD has nobody to hang out with at the convention?
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 07, 2013, 08:57:29 AM
Good suggestion, we discussed that.  DD nixed that idea  ::).  We're kind of in a "gap" stage where she needs me for some things (emotional support, money) but would be mortified otherwise.  I might have enjoyed it though  ;D.  And yes, she did not know anyone else who was going.

She put out texts and Facebook messages last minute to find a few people she knew there.  Never did find the roomies but watched their twitter feed.  (Plus, I last-minute partly paid for a day pass/ drove another friend to ensure she was with someone...another expense...did not mention that because it would start another discussion...it was really a hot mess of a situation.)

Thank you though.  DD says next year, SHE'LL take charge.  Yay!!!
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TurtleDove on January 07, 2013, 09:07:50 AM
That's not an etiquette issue though, but a parenting one. And as such irrelevant/inappropriate for this forum.

I can't tell if this is directed to me, but yes, I agree, which is why I posted what I did. As far as the etiquette, I think confronting G was outside the bounds of etiquette because there is nothing it would accomplish other than shaming G. As far as how to move forward, I don't think etiquette-wise this has anything to do with the OP aside from her parenting of her DD.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 07, 2013, 09:13:14 AM
That's not an etiquette issue though, but a parenting one. And as such irrelevant/inappropriate for this forum.

I can't tell if this is directed to me, but yes, I agree, which is why I posted what I did. As far as the etiquette, I think confronting G was outside the bounds of etiquette because there is nothing it would accomplish other than shaming G. As far as how to move forward, I don't think etiquette-wise this has anything to do with the OP aside from her parenting of her DD.

I think trying to find out why and maybe getting her to change her mind would be completely within the bounds of etiquette.  You don't know what's going on until you talk to the person.  DD was crying and couldn't speak.  Totally appropriate to step in, given that I had a relationship with G as well.

My original post was from utter confusion about my position.  The responses helped me clarify that and will help in going forward from here.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Wordgeek on January 07, 2013, 09:21:29 AM
Training child in etiquette is definitely a relevant topic for the forum.  When a parent should step in to assist an offspring and when s/he should coach the offspring to handle matters independently would also be relevant, especially in a situation like this, which involves a near-adult offspring and a young adult friend.  Since it's the OP's family, the OP has more knowledge of the people involved and I see no evidence that her judgement should be mistrusted.

Every situation has personal nuances, including ones related to family and offspring.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: rose red on January 07, 2013, 09:38:57 AM
How many times on this forum do we advice posters to confront (not attack) those who disappointed or did us/our family wrong?  The friend needs to know her actions affected others; that they are not going to just shrug and say "Oh well.  It's fine." and continue to be friends like nothing happened.  Better to learn now then later in life when the consequences might be major.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TurtleDove on January 07, 2013, 09:47:02 AM
How many times on this forum do we advice posters to confront (not attack) those who disappointed or did us/our family wrong?  The friend needs to know her actions affected others; that they are not going to just shrug and say "Oh well.  It's fine." and continue to be friends like nothing happened.  Better to learn now then later in life when the consequences might be major.

I think most of us agree with this, it's just that some of think DD should have talked to G instead of the OP.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: --- on January 07, 2013, 10:24:22 PM
From what I gather from the first post and other posts afterwards, that the OP's DD would be at least two hours away with a gathering of one mutal friend and a few people that her DD did not know yet. With, from what I understand, G being just over the legal age and the OP's DD still being a MINOR. Of which G decided to, at the last minute, to cancel any plans that had minors involved at a place two hours or more away from their parents. And this left not only the OP in a bind but others as well to scramble around to find ways to get to the appointed destination.

As a parent, the OP had every right to confront the ADULT of the group for her still MINOR DD and ask as to why she cancelled at the last possible second.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Seraphine1 on January 08, 2013, 02:21:35 AM
Good suggestion, we discussed that.  DD nixed that idea  ::).  We're kind of in a "gap" stage where she needs me for some things (emotional support, money) but would be mortified otherwise.  I might have enjoyed it though  ;D.  And yes, she did not know anyone else who was going.

She put out texts and Facebook messages last minute to find a few people she knew there.  Never did find the roomies but watched their twitter feed.  (Plus, I last-minute partly paid for a day pass/ drove another friend to ensure she was with someone...another expense...did not mention that because it would start another discussion...it was really a hot mess of a situation.)

Thank you though.  DD says next year, SHE'LL take charge.  Yay!!!

She nixed the idea?  Seriously?  You went above and beyond when her friend flaked out on her... and she shot down an idea that would have saved you half of all that driving?

What were her other options?  Not going was one of them.  She wouldn't have been able to go if you hadn't taken her.  I really hope she appreciates this help you gave her so she could have a fun experience.  I'm rather annoyed that she wouldn't consider staying over in a hotel with you, lest it cramp her style.

Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: iridaceae on January 08, 2013, 04:05:39 AM
Good suggestion, we discussed that.  DD nixed that idea  ::).  We're kind of in a "gap" stage where she needs me for some things (emotional support, money) but would be mortified otherwise.  I might have enjoyed it though  ;D.  And yes, she did not know anyone else who was going.She nixed the idea?  Seriously?  You went above and beyond when her friend flaked out on her... and she shot down an idea that would have saved you half of all that driving?



She's also a 17 year-old. I remember being mortified on many occasions at being seen in public with my parents when I was 17 or so. Lots of teens do this.

Heck my brother is 19 and just getting past this stage.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Snooks on January 08, 2013, 05:10:28 AM
Good suggestion, we discussed that.  DD nixed that idea  ::).  We're kind of in a "gap" stage where she needs me for some things (emotional support, money) but would be mortified otherwise.  I might have enjoyed it though  ;D.  And yes, she did not know anyone else who was going.

She put out texts and Facebook messages last minute to find a few people she knew there.  Never did find the roomies but watched their twitter feed.  (Plus, I last-minute partly paid for a day pass/ drove another friend to ensure she was with someone...another expense...did not mention that because it would start another discussion...it was really a hot mess of a situation.)

Thank you though.  DD says next year, SHE'LL take charge.  Yay!!!

She nixed the idea?  Seriously?  You went above and beyond when her friend flaked out on her... and she shot down an idea that would have saved you half of all that driving?

What were her other options?  Not going was one of them.  She wouldn't have been able to go if you hadn't taken her.  I really hope she appreciates this help you gave her so she could have a fun experience.  I'm rather annoyed that she wouldn't consider staying over in a hotel with you, lest it cramp her style.

I suspect that the time for arguing that point is not when you have an extremely upset 17 year old in front of you.  No point in throwing further spanners in the works.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: MariaE on January 08, 2013, 05:22:00 AM
Good suggestion, we discussed that.  DD nixed that idea  ::).  We're kind of in a "gap" stage where she needs me for some things (emotional support, money) but would be mortified otherwise.  I might have enjoyed it though  ;D.  And yes, she did not know anyone else who was going.

She put out texts and Facebook messages last minute to find a few people she knew there.  Never did find the roomies but watched their twitter feed.  (Plus, I last-minute partly paid for a day pass/ drove another friend to ensure she was with someone...another expense...did not mention that because it would start another discussion...it was really a hot mess of a situation.)

Thank you though.  DD says next year, SHE'LL take charge.  Yay!!!

She nixed the idea?  Seriously?  You went above and beyond when her friend flaked out on her... and she shot down an idea that would have saved you half of all that driving?

What were her other options?  Not going was one of them.  She wouldn't have been able to go if you hadn't taken her.  I really hope she appreciates this help you gave her so she could have a fun experience.  I'm rather annoyed that she wouldn't consider staying over in a hotel with you, lest it cramp her style.

I suspect that the time for arguing that point is not when you have an extremely upset 17 year old in front of you.  No point in throwing further spanners in the works.

Agreed. Pick your battles. Not everything has to be a life lesson. Sometimes the best thing a parent can do to their kid is to just love on them.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Seraphine1 on January 08, 2013, 06:49:27 AM
Good suggestion, we discussed that.  DD nixed that idea  ::).  We're kind of in a "gap" stage where she needs me for some things (emotional support, money) but would be mortified otherwise.  I might have enjoyed it though  ;D.  And yes, she did not know anyone else who was going.

She put out texts and Facebook messages last minute to find a few people she knew there.  Never did find the roomies but watched their twitter feed.  (Plus, I last-minute partly paid for a day pass/ drove another friend to ensure she was with someone...another expense...did not mention that because it would start another discussion...it was really a hot mess of a situation.)

Thank you though.  DD says next year, SHE'LL take charge.  Yay!!!

She nixed the idea?  Seriously?  You went above and beyond when her friend flaked out on her... and she shot down an idea that would have saved you half of all that driving?

What were her other options?  Not going was one of them.  She wouldn't have been able to go if you hadn't taken her.  I really hope she appreciates this help you gave her so she could have a fun experience.  I'm rather annoyed that she wouldn't consider staying over in a hotel with you, lest it cramp her style.

I suspect that the time for arguing that point is not when you have an extremely upset 17 year old in front of you.  No point in throwing further spanners in the works.

Agreed. Pick your battles. Not everything has to be a life lesson. Sometimes the best thing a parent can do to their kid is to just love on them.


I understand about loving your child and picking your battles, but I really think it's beyond the pale that she's be that ungrateful.  I'm seeing this from both sides - as a mother and a daughter.

I would have put it to her this way: "Daughter, seeing as your friend flaked out on you and left you without transportation, I've decided to take you myself.  But I'd rather stay overnight rather than drive back twice - it's a long drive, especially doing it back and forth so many times."   If I were the daughter, I'd be grateful that I'd get to go, not that my mother was going to embarrass me (unless that's a frequent occurance?)

YMMV, but I still feel she owes her mother a huge thank you for bailing her out of this mess with her flaky friend.  Many parents would have just said "well, there's nothing I can do about it".  The OP went above and beyond, and she has a lucky daughter.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TurtleDove on January 08, 2013, 08:05:34 AM
Unless I misunderstood, the DD could have stayed with the original group of girls. If it were me, that is what I would have done (and if I were the OP what I would have encouraged DD to do). Essentially, DD backed out of paying for her portion of the hotel too so etiquette wise she's not much better than G.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 08, 2013, 08:45:49 AM
Unless I misunderstood, the DD could have stayed with the original group of girls. If it were me, that is what I would have done (and if I were the OP what I would have encouraged DD to do). Essentially, DD backed out of paying for her portion of the hotel too so etiquette wise she's not much better than G.

I trust Otterpop knows her child and her situation sufficiently to determine what was proper.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: MariaE on January 08, 2013, 08:48:28 AM
YMMV, but I still feel she owes her mother a huge thank you for bailing her out of this mess with her flaky friend.  Many parents would have just said "well, there's nothing I can do about it".  The OP went above and beyond, and she has a lucky daughter.

Oh, absolutely! I agree with you completely there. But there's nothing to indicate that the OP's daughter didn't give her mother a huge thank you.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: TurtleDove on January 08, 2013, 08:49:03 AM
Unless I misunderstood, the DD could have stayed with the original group of girls. If it were me, that is what I would have done (and if I were the OP what I would have encouraged DD to do). Essentially, DD backed out of paying for her portion of the hotel too so etiquette wise she's not much better than G.

I trust Otterpop knows her child and her situation sufficiently to determine what was proper.

I was pointing out that from an etiquette perspective, the DD did exactly what G did. Using your rationale, G also gets a pass because I trust she also knows herself well enough to determine what was proper.  Both girls chose to back out of plans with people who were counting on them sharing a hotel room.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: bloo on January 08, 2013, 09:10:49 AM
Unless I misunderstood, the DD could have stayed with the original group of girls. If it were me, that is what I would have done (and if I were the OP what I would have encouraged DD to do). Essentially, DD backed out of paying for her portion of the hotel too so etiquette wise she's not much better than G.

I trust Otterpop knows her child and her situation sufficiently to determine what was proper.

I was pointing out that from an etiquette perspective, the DD did exactly what G did. Using your rationale, G also gets a pass because I trust she also knows herself well enough to determine what was proper.  Both girls chose to back out of plans with people who were counting on them sharing a hotel room.

Actually Turtledove, that is a really good point.

The only reasons I give DD a 'pass' in my mind are:

1) I seem to recall that DD was only rooming with the other girls that G knows and felt uncomfortable sharing a room w/o G there,
2) and according to OP the other girls' Twitter feeds indicated they were ticked at G, not at DD, for G pulling out so I assumed they put the responsibility on G when she pulled out for losing 2 people who'd be sharing the cost of the room.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Yvaine on January 08, 2013, 09:17:18 AM
Unless I misunderstood, the DD could have stayed with the original group of girls. If it were me, that is what I would have done (and if I were the OP what I would have encouraged DD to do). Essentially, DD backed out of paying for her portion of the hotel too so etiquette wise she's not much better than G.

I trust Otterpop knows her child and her situation sufficiently to determine what was proper.

I was pointing out that from an etiquette perspective, the DD did exactly what G did. Using your rationale, G also gets a pass because I trust she also knows herself well enough to determine what was proper.  Both girls chose to back out of plans with people who were counting on them sharing a hotel room.

Actually Turtledove, that is a really good point.

The only reasons I give DD a 'pass' in my mind are:

1) I seem to recall that DD was only rooming with the other girls that G knows and felt uncomfortable sharing a room w/o G there,
2) and according to OP the other girls' Twitter feeds indicated they were ticked at G, not at DD, for G pulling out so I assumed they put the responsibility on G when she pulled out for losing 2 people who'd be sharing the cost of the room.

And I'd also figured that the OP's daughter and the other girls paid G already, and thus G backed out taking all the girls' money with her so everyone was starting again at zero. Probably a point in need of clarification.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 08, 2013, 09:23:30 AM
1.  DD knew NONE of the other girls nor had she ever met them.  I was not going to drop of my high schooler to whomever for 3  days.  G was the sole connection and a trusted friend.  Plus she was the adult with the room reservation.  G left NO time to get other roomies or have us meet beforehand.  I don't know who took it over but none of them blamed daughter. 

2.  This was a sold out con, rooms are were 250 per night, if I could get one.  Spending $500, and 3 days in a hotel near our airport while another daughter was left at home was CRAZY, but I offered anyway.  Desperate times.  (I'm glad daughter nixed it).

3.  My piece of mind was worth the driving.  Salvaging the money, planning, emotions was worth the effort.  DD was very grateful to me and dad.  She also learned that she can't always rely on friends.  She wants to be in charge next year (which means we start planning now... ::))

I feel very comfortable with all my actions, which is unusual for me.  Maybe it's maturity, maybe it's reading here for almost 4 years now.  (Thank you E-Hell!!!)  I understand there will never be 100% consensus in any situation.  People with teens understand that situations unravel and you have to scramble to salvage what you can.  We'll see what happens, if anything, with G in the future.  So far we've gotten only blessed silence...and lots of cosplay pictures.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Lynn2000 on January 08, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
ETA: Thanks for clarifying, OP!

I was thinking that DD's sharing of the room was always contingent on G being there, too, and that--conceptually, at least--DD really didn't have an agreement with the other girls, only with G. Of course it depends on what DD and G agreed, and on what G and the other girls agreed, and we may have no way of knowing those things exactly; except that as the OP said, the other girls all blame G for messing things up.

I wonder how the situation would look if G had had to drop out at the last minute because, say, she broke her leg? Her sudden, voluntary flakiness and lack of respect for everyone else's plans cast a big shadow over the rest of the situation... but fundamentally, is it any different than if a medical emergency had forced her out? Just a hypothetical.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Seraphine1 on January 08, 2013, 10:57:52 AM
Thanks as well for the clarification, OP!

It sounds like you have a lovely daughter, and I'm really glad you were able to save the day.  Hopefully G will learn from all this and grow up.

Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: zyrs on January 08, 2013, 12:55:06 PM
You mentioned that G was the prepaid driver for everyone in the room.  Has she paid the prepayment back or even offered to do so?
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 08, 2013, 08:11:08 PM
You mentioned that G was the prepaid driver for everyone in the room.  Has she paid the prepayment back or even offered to do so?

DD prepaid the con registration.  Gas and hotel were to be settled when G got here Friday morning 8am.  She cancelled on us Thursday 8pm (Again, I'm astounded, that ALL YEAR they've been talking about these plans - then this.  I cannot relate to how this was done.).  We haven't heard from G since.

If it had been a medical emergency I would not be angry in the least, and might have paid some to the other girls to defray their costs.  But still, DD would not have stayed overnight.  The other girls have not contacted us either, but I doubt they even know who we are.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Sharnita on January 09, 2013, 07:55:07 AM
I am kind of surprised by the level of shock you are experienciencing. She flaked over an important event to you before and used religious convictions as her excuse. Making plans with her after that probably should have been considered a risky proposition.

Don't get me wrong, I get the hury , just not the shock that she eould do something she has already done.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 09, 2013, 08:57:11 AM
I am kind of surprised by the level of shock you are experienciencing. She flaked over an important event to you before and used religious convictions as her excuse. Making plans with her after that probably should have been considered a risky proposition.

Don't get me wrong, I get the hury , just not the shock that she eould do something she has already done.

Yes, you are right.  In hindsight I see it.  But, I'm the Queen of Second Chances.  Not anymore.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Virg on January 09, 2013, 09:33:37 AM
Sharnita wrote:

"I am kind of surprised by the level of shock you are experienciencing. She flaked over an important event to you before and used religious convictions as her excuse. Making plans with her after that probably should have been considered a risky proposition. "

On one side, there's a parallel, but on the other, there's a huge difference between backing out a of birthday party invite where the person backing out is simply a guest and backing out of a multi-night trip where the person backing out is the coordinator, transportation, reservation holder and sole social connection among the other guests.  The difference in the level of commitment would easily lead me to be shocked in Otterpop's shoes, as I'd never suspect that backing out of a birthday party would make someone more likely to bail out of something they'd spent so much time and energy planning.  I tend to agree with the other posters who said that it's likely that the "religious convictions" excuse is exactly that, and the subsequent posting of cosplay pictures only serves to reinforce the idea.

Virg
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: rose red on January 09, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
I would be shocked too since they've been talking and planning for a whole year.  Ditching a birthday party where she's only a guest, while hurtful, doesn't compare.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Emmy on January 09, 2013, 12:00:05 PM
Sharnita wrote:

"I am kind of surprised by the level of shock you are experienciencing. She flaked over an important event to you before and used religious convictions as her excuse. Making plans with her after that probably should have been considered a risky proposition. "

On one side, there's a parallel, but on the other, there's a huge difference between backing out a of birthday party invite where the person backing out is simply a guest and backing out of a multi-night trip where the person backing out is the coordinator, transportation, reservation holder and sole social connection among the other guests.  The difference in the level of commitment would easily lead me to be shocked in Otterpop's shoes, as I'd never suspect that backing out of a birthday party would make someone more likely to bail out of something they'd spent so much time and energy planning.  I tend to agree with the other posters who said that it's likely that the "religious convictions" excuse is exactly that, and the subsequent posting of cosplay pictures only serves to reinforce the idea.

Virg

I agree there is a big difference.  This is something they have been talking about for a year while backing out as a guest at a birthday party wouldn't cause too much harm.  Even normally reliable people may flake out on something once in a while and I don't see any indication from the OP that this was a pattern from G.  If G and OP's DD had known each other a long time and the birthday party was the only last minute flake out, I don't think the OP or her DD were too unreasonable for still trusting G.

It seems like this family uses 'religious convictions' as a convenient excuse to get out of commitments at the last minute.  G's mom sounds controlling over her 19 year old adult daughter.  My guess is G's mom found out at the last minute and forbid her daughter to go to the convention. 
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: snappylt on January 09, 2013, 04:56:18 PM
Thought I'd toss in my two cents here.

OP, although my wife and I have sons, not daughters, I can understand that you were concerned about leaving your daughter with strangers at a convention when G backed out.

It seems to me that even if G's story about religious convictions was true, she could have made the choice to honor her commitment regarding the shared hotel room.  She could have gone to the hotel and just stayed away from the convention and thereby honored both her promise to the others and her religious convictions.

It reminds me of a very long drive I made as a young adult.  I was going out with a young woman at the time whose parents spent their summers at a mountain retreat center.  I arranged to drive her from the city where we lived to the mountain retreat center to spend a week with her parents.  She was going to stay with her parents and they arranged for me to stay in a guest room nearby.  Well, things did not go smoothly on the drive out to the retreat center.  (About halfway there I remember turning to look at my girlfriend as she nagged me for the umpteenth time and I remember thinking to myself that if I continued being her boyfriend, that's what my future would be: I'd be the target of constant nagging.  Sure enough, after a day or two at the retreat center, I couldn't stand her nagging any more and I broke up with her.

Here is where I am different than G.  When I broke up with my girlfriend i specifically said to her that I had made a commitment to drive her to the retreat center and back again, and I was not about to abandon her on that mountain (even if I did not want to date her any more).  I said I was leaving to spend the rest of that week with relatives, but that I'd return in time to pick her up and take her back to her home city.  And I did.  Yes, it was awkward, and yes it meant extra driving, but I felt that it was my responsibility to honor my commitment.

G could have stayed in the hotel room without actually attending the conference to honor her commitment.  She chose not to.
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Otterpop on January 09, 2013, 05:39:14 PM
Thank you Snappyit, that was a great story.  Really illustrates living up to one's commitments. 
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Virg on January 10, 2013, 08:36:50 AM
snappylt wrote:

"It seems to me that even if G's story about religious convictions was true, she could have made the choice to honor her commitment regarding the shared hotel room.  She could have gone to the hotel and just stayed away from the convention and thereby honored both her promise to the others and her religious convictions."

This is only true if the "religious convictions" center around being at the anime convention.  If it involves something else, like perhaps being in the hotel room without a chaperone or some other such thing, then this doesn't apply.  For the record, I think the whole thing was a shine-on, but if it wasn't, she couldn't necessarily have gone and just stayed away from the convention.

Virg
Title: Re: How to move forward after major hurt to DD?
Post by: Texas Mom on January 10, 2013, 03:51:27 PM
Even though she's 19, I suspect she got grounded.  The "religious convictions" was here way of saving face (in her pov).

OP, I'm glad your DD got to go & had a good time.

I agree with being cooly pleasant if the occasion arises and not initiating contact.