Etiquette Hell

Etiquette School is in session! => Complete Silence => Topic started by: JeseC on January 10, 2013, 02:47:00 PM

Title: When they just won't go away...
Post by: JeseC on January 10, 2013, 02:47:00 PM
What does one do when silence simply seems to instigate a person to work harder at making you pay attention to them?  Is there an e-hell approved way of saying "I don't want to talk to you?"  I'm not really thinking of people you know, more random strangers in public places who seem to consider themselves entitled to your time and attention.  But many of them even have the temerity to imply that you are being rude for not engaging them or don't appreciate their commentary.

Clarification edit:  I don't own a car, so I walk or take the bus.  The offenders are almost always young men making rather crude attempts at flirting - not uncommonly accompanied with unwelcome "compliments".  Unfortunately I've had some of them do things like get in my face, try to walk alongside me or sit next to me on the bus, or block my path if I try to leave.  Again, usually with the implication that I'm being rude for not talking.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Margo on January 10, 2013, 03:16:20 PM
I think if they are random strangers then "I'm not interested in having a conversation" or "Leave me alone" are both absolutely fine. You don't owe a random stranger  your time.

someone deliberately blocking your path? A loud "Stop Harassing me" "leave me alone" "Stopping blocking my exit" are all totally appropriate.

Someone who speaks to you when you don't want a conversation maybe gets one, polite "I'm not interested in talking"

Someone who is harassing you does not get a 'polite' response.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: TurtleDove on January 10, 2013, 03:57:04 PM
I have gotten my best results with a friendly, "Thank you, but I'm busy" along with quickening my pace.  I think a quick acknowledgment works better than a cold or harsh accusation of "you are creepy and a jerk" because sometimes all the people are looking for a is a brief acknowledgment, and being called out makes them defensive. This way, they can save face.  If they continue after the initial "thanks but no thanks" then it may make sense to escalate.  But in my experience, coming out in attack mode backfires if you truly want to be left alone.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: SamiHami on January 10, 2013, 04:13:04 PM
"I don't know you. Please leave me alone."

If they don't seem to understand and back off after that, maybe you can find a nice police officer to explain it to them.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Auntie Mame on January 10, 2013, 05:07:36 PM
If some random knuckle dragger thinks "compliments" like hey baby girl, a wolf whistle, bellowing at me like I'm a stray dog or "complimenting" a feature on my body, I flat out ignore them.  If they persist I say loudly and firmly "Go away!". 

Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: lady_disdain on January 10, 2013, 06:29:19 PM
Someone who speaks to you when you don't want a conversation maybe gets one, polite "I'm not interested in talking"

I disagree. If the person approached you politely in a safe situation (in a busy street during the day and kept their distance, as opposed to crowding in on you late at night), then they deserve a polite answer, in the line of "Excuse me but I am busy/thinking/not interested in talking." There is no need to be gratuitously rude by ignoring them or answering curtly. A little common courtesy goes a long way in improving day to day interactions.

However, once they start insisting, crowding in on you or harassing in any form, then curter answers and, if necessary, escalating from there is fine.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: TurtleDove on January 10, 2013, 06:45:31 PM
Exactly what lady_disdain said.  I think so often the responses on this board jump to being rude to strangers when often I think simle courtesy/we are all on this earth together attitude would diffuse the situation.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: RooRoo on January 10, 2013, 07:18:41 PM
Unfortunately, when I was younger and pretty, saying "Excuse me but I am busy/thinking/not interested in talking" to the knuckledraggers was frequently taken as an invitation. Apparently, the fact that I was polite to them meant I must be interested. Go figure.

I've always been happy to chat with nice people. I'm talking only about the ones who were trying to pick me up; those who couldn't look me in the eye because their eyes were glued a little lower, or who were giving other signs of only being interested in me from the nose down.

And if Tony Testosterony & Co. can't hear a polite brush-off, then they get something more direct. It took me a long time to learn that.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: TurtleDove on January 10, 2013, 07:34:28 PM
I've had the opposite experience.  I generally say, "Thank you!" with a bright smile and move away and almost always the person who was hollering at me smiles and wishes me a good day (or something like that).
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Auntie Mame on January 11, 2013, 12:26:32 PM
Exactly what lady_disdain said.  I think so often the responses on this board jump to being rude to strangers when often I think simle courtesy/we are all on this earth together attitude would diffuse the situation.

If they approach me politely, I respond politely. I don't scream at people who just want to know the time, or directions to a landmark, or if they want to tell me I have a pretty smile.  If they approach with a smile and an "excuse me" I will happily smile back. 

If they're opening line includes 1) bellowing something demeaning (baby girl for example, I'm in my late thirties, not a baby girl, certainly not your baby girl), a wolf whistle, or a "compliment (read: rude comment about a part of my body), then they get ignored.  If they get in my space they get a death glare and a "Back Off!".
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Margo on January 11, 2013, 12:54:14 PM
Exactly what lady_disdain said.  I think so often the responses on this board jump to being rude to strangers when often I think simle courtesy/we are all on this earth together attitude would diffuse the situation.

If they approach me politely, I respond politely. I don't scream at people who just want to know the time, or directions to a landmark, or if they want to tell me I have a pretty smile.  If they approach with a smile and an "excuse me" I will happily smile back. 

If they're opening line includes 1) bellowing something demeaning (baby girl for example, I'm in my late thirties, not a baby girl, certainly not your baby girl), a wolf whistle, or a "compliment (read: rude comment about a part of my body), then they get ignored.  If they get in my space they get a death glare and a "Back Off!".
Yup. This is where I was coming from with the 'maybe' in my original response, but you put it better.
OP's post implied to be that she had already tried various polite responses.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: BeagleMommy on January 11, 2013, 01:49:47 PM
Ah, the joys of the Clueless Cretin!  I usually give them a polite "No thanks" or "Sorry, I'm busy" at first.  If they get persistent I get more specific with either "I've said no once and the answer is still no" or "I'm married".

When I was in high school I was once at a bus stop waiting for my bus home when I man came up to me and started chatting.  I tried telliing him I was reading (which I was; the open book should have been a clue) but he kept asking me to "Just go for one drink with me".

I closed the book and said "That would get you in a lot of trouble since I'm only 15".  That he understood.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Yvaine on January 11, 2013, 02:42:41 PM
I've had the opposite experience.  I generally say, "Thank you!" with a bright smile and move away and almost always the person who was hollering at me smiles and wishes me a good day (or something like that).

Really? I've quite often gotten "Female Dog!" even if I was being polite.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: TurtleDove on January 11, 2013, 02:48:54 PM
I've had the opposite experience.  I generally say, "Thank you!" with a bright smile and move away and almost always the person who was hollering at me smiles and wishes me a good day (or something like that).

Really? I've quite often gotten "Female Dog!" even if I was being polite.

Maybe it's location and time of day.  This mostly happens to me downtown in the Midwest during or just after business hours, and generally the first comment ranges from, "Wow, your smile made my day!" to "Mmmmm, mmmm, looking good girl...whhooooowhheeeee."  I don't find either threatening in any way, and while the second might be offensive to some, in my experience just saying "Thank you!" with a smile give the person who said it a little ego boost and the interaction is over and not altogether unpleasant.  Reacting with "get away from me" tends to put people on the defensive and prone to trying to defend their actions.  Because in reality, most men who yell stuff at me (and it happens a lot) don't actually think or even want me to go on a date with them or even have a conversation.  I am unlikely to ever see these people again, and I certainly don't think this is the time to go off on them and think I can change them.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Yvaine on January 11, 2013, 02:55:01 PM
I've had the opposite experience.  I generally say, "Thank you!" with a bright smile and move away and almost always the person who was hollering at me smiles and wishes me a good day (or something like that).

Really? I've quite often gotten "Female Dog!" even if I was being polite.

Maybe it's location and time of day.  This mostly happens to me downtown in the Midwest during or just after business hours, and generally the first comment ranges from, "Wow, your smile made my day!" to "Mmmmm, mmmm, looking good girl...whhooooowhheeeee."  I don't find either threatening in any way, and while the second might be offensive to some, in my experience just saying "Thank you!" with a smile give the person who said it a little ego boost and the interaction is over and not altogether unpleasant.  Reacting with "get away from me" tends to put people on the defensive and prone to trying to defend their actions.  Because in reality, most men who yell stuff at me (and it happens a lot) don't actually think or even want me to go on a date with them or even have a conversation.  I am unlikely to ever see these people again, and I certainly don't think this is the time to go off on them and think I can change them.

This is in the Midwest too, but I think a lot of the guys who do this in my area have Major Issues, and talking to them ends up engaging the crazy.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: EMuir on January 11, 2013, 03:25:23 PM
Put in earbuds.  You don't actually need an iPod in order to look like you can't hear them.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: JeseC on January 11, 2013, 05:43:21 PM
Exactly what lady_disdain said.  I think so often the responses on this board jump to being rude to strangers when often I think simle courtesy/we are all on this earth together attitude would diffuse the situation.

If they approach me politely, I respond politely. I don't scream at people who just want to know the time, or directions to a landmark, or if they want to tell me I have a pretty smile.  If they approach with a smile and an "excuse me" I will happily smile back. 

If they're opening line includes 1) bellowing something demeaning (baby girl for example, I'm in my late thirties, not a baby girl, certainly not your baby girl), a wolf whistle, or a "compliment (read: rude comment about a part of my body), then they get ignored.  If they get in my space they get a death glare and a "Back Off!".

Unfortunately I'm far more wary of even polite at this point, when it comes from young men.  On one hand, I don't want to be unnecessarily dismissive of someone who genuinely just wants to be polite (and comprehends what that means).  On the other hand, it...seems to encourage them, and tends to lead to situations that are even more difficult to extricate yourself from.  "What, now you don't want to talk to me?  What's your problem?  You think I'm ugly, huh?  Stuck-up ****!"

It's kind of disappointing because I actually enjoy random interactions.  I've just learned to be very cautious, because almost any indication of friendliness towards these cretins seems to be taken as proof positive that you're dying for their attention.  I've had even so much as making eye contact be taken as an invitation to hit on me.  Gotta love frat boys...

Ah, the joys of the Clueless Cretin!  I usually give them a polite "No thanks" or "Sorry, I'm busy" at first.  If they get persistent I get more specific with either "I've said no once and the answer is still no" or "I'm married".

When I was in high school I was once at a bus stop waiting for my bus home when I man came up to me and started chatting.  I tried telliing him I was reading (which I was; the open book should have been a clue) but he kept asking me to "Just go for one drink with me".

I closed the book and said "That would get you in a lot of trouble since I'm only 15".  That he understood.

Yeah - I actually look about 5 years younger than my age, so many of them don't realize how much like children they look to me!  Most of them are students either at the college I work for or at the nearby college.

Incidentally, my personal favorite was a guy who'd been hitting on me.  I let slip that I was g@y.  His response:  "Really?  Me too!  We should get together!"   ???

Put in earbuds.  You don't actually need an iPod in order to look like you can't hear them.

Sometimes this works.  More often it leads to physical space violations.  Persistent lot - I have my set of ipod, kindle, and papers and pen all out and they still try.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: RooRoo on January 11, 2013, 09:41:22 PM
TurtleDove said, “…I don't find either threatening in any way, and while the second might be offensive to some…”

JeseC said, “…because almost any indication of friendliness towards these cretins seems to be taken as proof positive that you're dying for their attention.”

It’s more about how they say things. That’s what I was getting at earlier. I've had a guy say “Hello” in a way that made me want to damage his scrabble tiles; and I've had a guy say, “Wanna go home and (play scrabble) for a while?” and I took it as the compliment it was.

The first one – my reaction was completely instinctive. No, I didn't hurt him; I was in a place where I was well known (thus safe) and he wasn't. He left soon.

The second one – well, it was a “biker bar,” in the middle of a game of pool. It was a compliment, and when I said “No” and thanked him sincerely, that was the end of it. But not of the pool game.  ;D
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Jocelyn on January 12, 2013, 06:03:39 PM
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: JeseC on January 12, 2013, 07:53:01 PM
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'

Given the relative youth of many of the offenders, I'm sort of hoping a shocked or annoyed response might get them to rethink their approach.  Doubtful, but one does hope...
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Pen^2 on March 30, 2013, 08:52:52 AM
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'
This entirely. It can be done in a complimentary way, of course, but saying to a complete stranger anything which is essentially, "hey, I like how you look, so let's go bump uglies" is not a compliment. This doesn't require further explanation; it should be painfully obvious.

I travel several hours every day, to and from work on the train. On the way back, especially in the Winter when it's dark, I can't ever fully relax or immerse myself fully into a book. I choose seats which are easy to run from and in which I can't be blocked if someone sits in the aisle next to me. And there are certain people to whom any response is an encouragement, like a small child who serially misbehaves because the subsequent negative attention is still a form of the attention they want, even if it's not ideal. If any stranger approaches me on the train while I am obviously busy with a book or somesuch, it limits their possible intentions to only a few things, which puts me on guard. It is difficult to deal with such people, and usually by how they approach you, you can tell which people aren't going to listen to what you say and will start harassing you. The trains are dangerous at night, and although the police patrol them frequently, it sometimes isn't frequent enough.

I have three tactics: the first is to nod and, without smiling or looking inviting at all, say 'uh-huh' vaguely as I half raise my eyes to them before going back to my book. This is all done in a distracted and smooth motion, not jerkily or nervously. This is enough to tell most decent people that I'm busy (as I obviously was before they interrupted me) and am not interested in a conversation. Anything else they say is met with smaller and smaller versions of the same response.

The second tactic is with my phone--I'll slide my hand into my pocket as discreetly as I can, and press the right buttons to make it sound like it's ringing (I've memorised the right buttons to set off a function I installed without having to look at what I'm doing). I then answer it and have a mock conversation about how I'll be getting off soon and I'll see Bruno and all his burly weight-lifting and kick-boxing friends who are waiting there to meet me. Sometimes, if the person keeps trying to interrupt me, I'll actually get off at the next stop (they never follow), but get on again in the next carriage or just catch the next train.

The first and second tactics get rid of almost everyone (~99%). Anyone remaining at this point is very determined and clearly does not care about what I want. So, the third tactic is to make myself unappealing. I start doing anything gross. I really mean gross. Most creeps will stop seeing you as whatever unsavoury thing they've been thinking of when you start picking your nose, or clearing your sinuses, or cleaning your ears and examining the results... You get the picture. Turns most people away very quickly.

Only once, out of many many incidents, has anyone persisted past this point. I literally ran to the conductor (the nearest staff) two carriages away, and based on the things the guy was shouting as I sprinted, I'm glad I escaped when I did.

Where I live, police don't always answer when you call. So I need to resort to these things in order to get to work. If it's better where you are, either just call them, or if it hasn't escalated into anything and you're just apprehensive at whatever point, call a friend (pre-arranged) and pretend it's the police. The friend can call the real police if they hear things actually start to get nasty. But don't underestimate the potential danger such people pose. Someone who honestly thinks a woman should be complimented when she is told that which was mentioned above isn't thinking from her point of view, and is more likely than most other people to therefore lack the empathy needed to not do things which make the situation unsafe for her.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Waterlight on April 01, 2013, 08:21:21 PM
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'
This entirely. It can be done in a complimentary way, of course, but saying to a complete stranger anything which is essentially, "hey, I like how you look, so let's go bump uglies" is not a compliment. This doesn't require further explanation; it should be painfully obvious.

I was waiting at a bus stop recently after going grocery shopping and was approached by a guy who said essentially this.  Well, what he actually said was, he wasn't interested in the bags I was carrying, he wanted me.

It's for reasons like this that I wear an engagement/wedding ring on my left hand, even though I'm not married. 

Anyway, I held up my left hand and said, "Sorry, guess you didn't see the ring."

This guy would not be deterred, even by a silver band with a good-sized sapphire.  He said, "How about a side f***?"   :o

My response:  "NO WAY!"   Said in my best designed-to-project-to-the-back-of-an-auditorium theatre voice.

Quote
I have three tactics: the first is to nod and, without smiling or looking inviting at all, say 'uh-huh' vaguely as I half raise my eyes to them before going back to my book. This is all done in a distracted and smooth motion, not jerkily or nervously. This is enough to tell most decent people that I'm busy (as I obviously was before they interrupted me) and am not interested in a conversation. Anything else they say is met with smaller and smaller versions of the same response.

This is pretty much what I do, most of the time.  The way I see it, anything more than that would just encourage them.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: JeseC on April 10, 2013, 10:03:16 AM
Maybe it's just me, but...the way I was raised, asking a random woman if she wanted to go play scrabble was just considered offensive.  I know not everyone shares all of my views about scrabble, but I still think that asking a woman whose name you don't even know and who you haven't otherwise spoken with at least a little just makes you rude.  You really think I'm so desperate I'd say yes to a guy who I just saw 2min ago and who's never spoken to me before?
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: VorFemme on April 10, 2013, 12:27:37 PM
Something to consider- a cheery response to unsolicited attention only reinforces the idea that women should feel complimented at being selected for sexual advances. This just keeps the advances coming. Some of these men need a clue about how it's not necessarily a compliment to have someone say, 'Hey, you look like the sort of woman who'd go home with random strangers and play scrabble' in lieu of saying 'Nice weather we're having.'
This entirely. It can be done in a complimentary way, of course, but saying to a complete stranger anything which is essentially, "hey, I like how you look, so let's go bump uglies" is not a compliment. This doesn't require further explanation; it should be painfully obvious.

I was waiting at a bus stop recently after going grocery shopping and was approached by a guy who said essentially this.  Well, what he actually said was, he wasn't interested in the bags I was carrying, he wanted me.

It's for reasons like this that I wear an engagement/wedding ring on my left hand, even though I'm not married. 

Anyway, I held up my left hand and said, "Sorry, guess you didn't see the ring."

This guy would not be deterred, even by a silver band with a good-sized sapphire.  He said, "How about a side f***?"   :o

My response:  "NO WAY!"   Said in my best designed-to-project-to-the-back-of-an-auditorium theatre voice.

Quote
I have three tactics: the first is to nod and, without smiling or looking inviting at all, say 'uh-huh' vaguely as I half raise my eyes to them before going back to my book. This is all done in a distracted and smooth motion, not jerkily or nervously. This is enough to tell most decent people that I'm busy (as I obviously was before they interrupted me) and am not interested in a conversation. Anything else they say is met with smaller and smaller versions of the same response.

This is pretty much what I do, most of the time.  The way I see it, anything more than that would just encourage them.

I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: dawbs on April 10, 2013, 01:24:45 PM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Twik on April 10, 2013, 02:10:29 PM
Maybe it's just me, but...the way I was raised, asking a random woman if she wanted to go play scrabble was just considered offensive.  I know not everyone shares all of my views about scrabble, but I still think that asking a woman whose name you don't even know and who you haven't otherwise spoken with at least a little just makes you rude.  You really think I'm so desperate I'd say yes to a guy who I just saw 2min ago and who's never spoken to me before?

I agree. It's not a compliment ("Hey, you're really attractive!"), it's a dominance thing ("I'd deign to play scrabble with you - bet that makes you excited, huh?")
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: gingerzing on April 10, 2013, 02:13:29 PM
Sadly, the wedding band thing doesn't deter - as mentioned above. 

What I have never had the nerve to do, but really have wanted to, is to look them dead in the eye and say "Seriously, has that EVER actually worked on a random stranger? Because I am saying doubtful." 


Oddly, I have only had two real bad encounters.  One was when I use to ride the bus to work.  The guy ignored that I was reading, I basically had to finally tell him to "shoo.  go away.  I am busy" Next step would have been to talk to the bus driver.
The second was on a plane. And wasn't technically a pickup. At the end of a very long three-day trade show, was flying home and still had my company shirt on.  (Flight was about 1/4 people from my company though I wasn't sitting near anyone from my company.)    This guy saw that I was from Company. He was across the aisle and one row back.
Him- (taps me on the shoulder)"Hey, You're from Company. Do you know <my VP's name>?" 
Me-Yes, he is my boss. 
Him-"Hey, VP is a great guy.  We should talk about him." 
Me-No thanks (I turn around)
Him- (Continues)  "Hey, you need to talk to me."
Me -No, I don't.  And please leave me alone.
Him- (leaning forward talking) "It will be fun to talk about VP"
Me- No, I want you to leave me alone.  (At this I look to the guys that are apparently with this bozo.)
Him- (Here I don't know remember what he said, but he touched my arm to get my attention.)
Me- (whipping around) Listen, I am hot, and exhausted, and tired of talking to people.  You need to LEAVE ME <naughty word sorry> ALONE NOW.   
*To my defense - I gave him three polite responses before I snapped.*

His buddies pulled him back and got him distracted.  Apparently, the flight attendant was also annoyed with him on my behalf because she was coming from the back to diffuse the situation.  Pretty sure he was fairly drunk (could have flew the plane home with the fumes.)  But sometimes you have to speak loudly and clearly to get your point across. 

Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Moray on April 10, 2013, 02:29:52 PM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Wow, Vorfemme. Don't do that. Or encourage that. Ever. Please.

A. It implies that there's somehow something wrong with being trans, which is mighty rude.
B. You may end up intriguing instead of repulsing them; discussing ones genitals with random strangers breeds familiarity.
C. This is the super important one: The incidence of violence against those in the trans community, or who are even suspected of being trans, is frighteningly high. We're not just talking sexual violence here. We're talking murder.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: JeseC on April 10, 2013, 05:02:06 PM
I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

For the sake of a very pretty and very dear to me young lady who has not had the opportunity to have surgery yet, please don't do this.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Waterlight on April 11, 2013, 04:09:34 PM
Sadly, the wedding band thing doesn't deter - as mentioned above.

I have found it's a deterrent to a lot of guys with at least a shred of decency.  At least it puts the guys without it out where I can see them.  The ring looks like this, BTW:

(http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o669/MarisaLWood/R459_P_zps051d7d8d.jpg) (http://s1337.photobucket.com/user/MarisaLWood/media/R459_P_zps051d7d8d.jpg.html)

Quote
The second was on a plane. And wasn't technically a pickup. At the end of a very long three-day trade show, was flying home and still had my company shirt on.  (Flight was about 1/4 people from my company though I wasn't sitting near anyone from my company.)    This guy saw that I was from Company. He was across the aisle and one row back.
Him- (taps me on the shoulder)"Hey, You're from Company. Do you know <my VP's name>?" 
Me-Yes, he is my boss. 
Him-"Hey, VP is a great guy.  We should talk about him." 
Me-No thanks (I turn around)
Him- (Continues)  "Hey, you need to talk to me."
Me -No, I don't.  And please leave me alone.
Him- (leaning forward talking) "It will be fun to talk about VP"
Me- No, I want you to leave me alone.  (At this I look to the guys that are apparently with this bozo.)
Him- (Here I don't know remember what he said, but he touched my arm to get my attention.)
Me- (whipping around) Listen, I am hot, and exhausted, and tired of talking to people.  You need to LEAVE ME <naughty word sorry> ALONE NOW.   
*To my defense - I gave him three polite responses before I snapped.*

His buddies pulled him back and got him distracted.  Apparently, the flight attendant was also annoyed with him on my behalf because she was coming from the back to diffuse the situation.  Pretty sure he was fairly drunk (could have flew the plane home with the fumes.)  But sometimes you have to speak loudly and clearly to get your point across.

I for one am not going to cast you into the depths of E-Hell for reacting the way you did.  Safety trumps etiquette--and a guy who won't take no for an answer obviously doesn't care about safety OR etiquette.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: VorFemme on April 11, 2013, 04:38:28 PM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Ah, true...

Just because I made my first KNOWN gay (well, technically bisexual but same sex was their first preference) friend in college doesn't mean that other people will shrug off that information and quit harassing the uninterested-in-them-person that they are trying to make be interested in them by the power of sheer nagging.

In self defense, there is nothing wrong with surgically rearranging things to what you feel is "right" for you - and I grew up in an era when there weren't nearly as many violet acts against the "alternative lifestyles" - but that might have been because so few "came out of the closet" until I was older. 

That friend in college got caught in the wrong bar on a trip out of town by a police raid and it cost them their college scholarship at the local university - US military-related at a time even before "don't ask, don't tell".

After thinking about it - there are pitfalls to almost any attempt to ignore the cretins in the world.  Not having all the answers, I will now be quiet.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: thedudeabides on April 11, 2013, 09:12:58 PM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Ah, true...

Just because I made my first KNOWN gay (well, technically bisexual but same sex was their first preference) friend in college doesn't mean that other people will shrug off that information and quit harassing the uninterested-in-them-person that they are trying to make be interested in them by the power of sheer nagging.

In self defense, there is nothing wrong with surgically rearranging things to what you feel is "right" for you - and I grew up in an era when there weren't nearly as many violet acts against the "alternative lifestyles" - but that might have been because so few "came out of the closet" until I was older. 

That friend in college got caught in the wrong bar on a trip out of town by a police raid and it cost them their college scholarship at the local university - US military-related at a time even before "don't ask, don't tell".

After thinking about it - there are pitfalls to almost any attempt to ignore the cretins in the world.  Not having all the answers, I will now be quiet.

???
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: VorFemme on April 11, 2013, 10:58:26 PM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Ah, true...

Just because I made my first KNOWN gay (well, technically bisexual but same sex was their first preference) friend in college doesn't mean that other people will shrug off that information and quit harassing the uninterested-in-them-person that they are trying to make be interested in them by the power of sheer nagging.

In self defense, there is nothing wrong with surgically rearranging things to what you feel is "right" for you - and I grew up in an era when there weren't nearly as many violet acts against the "alternative lifestyles" - but that might have been because so few "came out of the closet" until I was older. 

That friend in college got caught in the wrong bar on a trip out of town by a police raid and it cost them their college scholarship at the local university - US military-related at a time even before "don't ask, don't tell".

After thinking about it - there are pitfalls to almost any attempt to ignore the cretins in the world.  Not having all the answers, I will now be quiet.

???

Trying to retract previous advice because it might be VERY BAD in many cases......

While letting people that thought I was phrasing things in an unsupportive way to those who might actually be having surgery.....

Bad phrasing all around.

As a plump woman past the age of menopause, I have to admit that I don't get a lot of cretins making that kind of remark to me - so I have not had any practice in dealing with "that situation" lately. 
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: perpetua on April 12, 2013, 03:15:22 AM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Ah, true...

Just because I made my first KNOWN gay (well, technically bisexual but same sex was their first preference) friend in college doesn't mean that other people will shrug off that information and quit harassing the uninterested-in-them-person that they are trying to make be interested in them by the power of sheer nagging.

In self defense, there is nothing wrong with surgically rearranging things to what you feel is "right" for you - and I grew up in an era when there weren't nearly as many violet acts against the "alternative lifestyles" - but that might have been because so few "came out of the closet" until I was older. 

That friend in college got caught in the wrong bar on a trip out of town by a police raid and it cost them their college scholarship at the local university - US military-related at a time even before "don't ask, don't tell".

After thinking about it - there are pitfalls to almost any attempt to ignore the cretins in the world.  Not having all the answers, I will now be quiet.

Not to derail the thread, but you do realise that being gay and being transgender are not the same thing, right?

Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Auntie Mame on April 12, 2013, 03:18:30 AM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Ah, true...

Just because I made my first KNOWN gay (well, technically bisexual but same sex was their first preference) friend in college doesn't mean that other people will shrug off that information and quit harassing the uninterested-in-them-person that they are trying to make be interested in them by the power of sheer nagging.

In self defense, there is nothing wrong with surgically rearranging things to what you feel is "right" for you - and I grew up in an era when there weren't nearly as many violet acts against the "alternative lifestyles" - but that might have been because so few "came out of the closet" until I was older. 

That friend in college got caught in the wrong bar on a trip out of town by a police raid and it cost them their college scholarship at the local university - US military-related at a time even before "don't ask, don't tell".

After thinking about it - there are pitfalls to almost any attempt to ignore the cretins in the world.  Not having all the answers, I will now be quiet.

Not to derail the thread, but you do realise that being gay and being transgender are not the same thing, right?

I don't even have words for the turn this thread took.  I am beyond offended for all the beloved people in my life and all the ways the identify themselves.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: thedudeabides on April 12, 2013, 07:16:08 AM


I have heard that some guys will leave, quickly, if you "warn them" that the sex change surgery hasn't been completed yet.

If they don't leave, I suppose you could say that you're still healing from the surgery......  Because getting rid of "that kind of guy" without pulling out a shotgun and "suggesting" that they leave you alone right NOW would give most people the idea that there is no such thing as a lie that isn't acceptable, if that ***** would just leave!

If there's *ANY* chance that there isn't sufficient backup, I would highly recommend avoiding this tactic.

The incidence where the prejudice against these subgroups have lead to sexual assault and/or violence is way higher than people realize.  A 'macho' person who looses face may seek to regain it by lashing out physically.

Ah, true...

Just because I made my first KNOWN gay (well, technically bisexual but same sex was their first preference) friend in college doesn't mean that other people will shrug off that information and quit harassing the uninterested-in-them-person that they are trying to make be interested in them by the power of sheer nagging.

In self defense, there is nothing wrong with surgically rearranging things to what you feel is "right" for you - and I grew up in an era when there weren't nearly as many violet acts against the "alternative lifestyles" - but that might have been because so few "came out of the closet" until I was older. 

That friend in college got caught in the wrong bar on a trip out of town by a police raid and it cost them their college scholarship at the local university - US military-related at a time even before "don't ask, don't tell".

After thinking about it - there are pitfalls to almost any attempt to ignore the cretins in the world.  Not having all the answers, I will now be quiet.

???

Trying to retract previous advice because it might be VERY BAD in many cases......

While letting people that thought I was phrasing things in an unsupportive way to those who might actually be having surgery.....

Bad phrasing all around.

As a plump woman past the age of menopause, I have to admit that I don't get a lot of cretins making that kind of remark to me - so I have not had any practice in dealing with "that situation" lately.

I'm just confused as to why it needed anything more than, "You're right. I'm sorry." What you wrote just compounds the initial offensiveness and dangerousness of your first post. And I say that as a man who doesn't exactly run into this situation often.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: VorFemme on April 12, 2013, 04:32:45 PM
You're probably phrasing things better than I am.

I have a tendency to over-explain, I'm told.

So, simplest response I can think of.

I didn't think my response through very well,  it was very bad advice for these situations.  I'm sorry.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: Moray on April 12, 2013, 04:49:44 PM
I appreciate your apology. It was bad advice for all situations.
Title: Re: When they just won't go away...
Post by: lurkerwisp on April 24, 2013, 02:43:44 PM
So... back on topic and speaking of violence.

Be very very careful in these situations.  If the guy (I say guy, because let's face it, it usually is) is testing your boundaries and starts to do so physically - he may very well be a predator looking to attack you for either non-consensual scrabble or plain old robbery.

Putting in earbuds or otherwise looking distracted are generally ways to clue someone of this type on to the fact that you're not aware of your surroundings.  This is the kind of thing they're looking for in victims.

Similarly, being too polite and letting someone into your personal bubble tells them that you will not fight back.  If your creepymeter alarms are going off, be the prickly person who tells strangers to get lost.  It's safer than being the friendly person dragged into a ditch and murdered.  You don't have to be nice to strangers who don't respect your boundaries.  You don't have to be nice to anyone who doesn't respect your boundaries.

Don't act scared, act alert.  If they keep after you, reach into a purse or pocket as if going for pepper spray or a gun and leave your hand there.  Duck into an open business with security cameras if possible.  Above all, be safety-minded instead of just etiquette-minded.  Sure there will be false alarms sometimes, but that's much better than letting them close and having something awful happen to you.