Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: Dark Annie on January 15, 2013, 04:33:20 PM

Title: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Dark Annie on January 15, 2013, 04:33:20 PM
A and B (same gender) are sharing a twin room on a conference or group trip etc.
From the first night, A snores. Loudly. So loud, in fact, that B does not sleep at all. On the third night, B asks the hotel for a private room but the only one available is a suite, which is $xxx a night. As B is suffering from sleep deprivation, he takes the room but asks A to cover some of the cost. A refuses, especially since it's an expensive spa suite.

Questions-
Is B out of line for expecting A to cover the cost of his new room?
If A does cover half the cost, who gets the new suite? Is A entitled to take the spa suite if he chips in?
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: otterwoman on January 15, 2013, 04:37:02 PM
Yes, B is out of line.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Katana_Geldar on January 15, 2013, 04:38:04 PM
B is out of line, but A should have said something first about the snoring.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: pearls n purls on January 15, 2013, 04:39:43 PM
Earplugs are a lot less expensive than a second room.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: MOM21SON on January 15, 2013, 04:42:21 PM
I disagree, I think A is being a SS.  I am A, I know I snore very loudly sometimes, like drawers open and close loud.  Many times when I was less poor, I would stay awake as to not to disturb B.  I am sure B knows he snores.

I think B should have dicussed it with A before getting a new room.  Maybe A would have paid for the new room for himself.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 15, 2013, 04:43:14 PM
This is a toughie, because people who snore aren't doing it for fun.  It's not like someone says, "Hey, I think I'll make a lot of noise while I sleep, so that my bunkmate can't sleep!"

And it's even possible that someone doesn't realize they snore to the extent they do.  If they live alone and don't sleep near others on a regular basis, they may not know they do.  And, even if they do know, correcting it isn't as easy as one might think.  Even a CPAP or something like that isn't always the complete answer to the problem.

I think B is out of line.  While I realize he is frustrated, I don't think he is completely in the right.  I'm not sure what the right answer is.  But I'm just not feeling right about what B is doing.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 15, 2013, 04:44:11 PM
Quote
Earplugs are a lot less expensive than a second room.

Didn't see your post until after I'd posted.  But you have an excellent point.  Earplugs are a good start/idea.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Promise on January 15, 2013, 04:44:21 PM
This is why I take a sound machine with headphones everywhere I go and in every hotel. It's not only a room mate that can cause noise issues, but banging doors, music, tv from the room next door, etc. My husband snores loudly and I sleep with it every night.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 15, 2013, 04:49:12 PM
earplugs are your friends.  Most phones offer a downloadable white noise program for free.  I find it invaluable when I travel because I have a hard time sleeping in new places and the program helps it to feel like "home"
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Gondwanaland on January 15, 2013, 04:49:29 PM
POD earplugs.  B is out of line.  Should have discussed the problem with A before deciding to move. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 15, 2013, 05:20:08 PM
I think both should have  discussed before they left - does either one snore? which gives them the choice to room together or get separate rooms ahead of time, bring earplugs, etc.

I know I do, and have been told I sound like a warthog. Fortunately, many of my friends and family I have occasion to travel with/stay with know this, and they snore too. But I've also been in the situation with new friends, going away, and needed to share a room. I am up front and say hey, I snore, and will also bring earplugs for everyone to use.  It's never been an issue, even when the next day they'll tease me about being so loud. But I think they all know that its nothing that can be controlled.

B was out line in asking or expecting A to pay for the pricier room
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 15, 2013, 05:25:23 PM
B is perfectly welcome to get another room.  But can't expect A to chip in for it.  Especially since A now has to pick up the entire cost of the shared room for the nights A has it to him/herself.  Which I don't think is fair, either.

I know I snore.  I don't know how badly, since the only time someone is in the same room with me is when I'm travelling and I don't sleep as well.  And thus, probably snore more.  I always warn potential roommates that I likely snore.  Because I don't sleep well when I'm travelling because of strange noises, I always sleep with earplugs.  I've found some really comfortable silicone ones.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: MOM21SON on January 15, 2013, 05:28:46 PM
Can I ask what kind of earplugs people are using?  I tried them once and couldn't get them to stay in my ears.  How do you hear your alarm?
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 15, 2013, 05:32:35 PM
Can I ask what kind of earplugs people are using?  I tried them once and couldn't get them to stay in my ears.  How do you hear your alarm?

I use conical shaped silicone ones.  They don't irritate my ears in the short term.  The one disadvantage is that I can't hear my alarm.  If I have a roommate, I will ask them to wake me if I don't hear it.  Although, sometimes, one plug will work its way mostly out during the night and I will hear the alarm.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: MOM21SON on January 15, 2013, 05:35:22 PM
Can I ask what kind of earplugs people are using?  I tried them once and couldn't get them to stay in my ears.  How do you hear your alarm?

I use conical shaped silicone ones.  They don't irritate my ears in the short term.  The one disadvantage is that I can't hear my alarm.  If I have a roommate, I will ask them to wake me if I don't hear it.  Although, sometimes, one plug will work its way mostly out during the night and I will hear the alarm.

Thanks, unfortunately, I am very allergic to silicone.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 15, 2013, 05:39:24 PM
And I'm allergic to latex, hence the silicone.   :)  Maybe you could try a latex variety?

The best ones I ever had were kind of gross to use.  They were made out of a mouldable wax and fit quite snugly and were very comfortable.  The gross part was that eventually, they contained a fair amount of ear wax, too.  I don't even know if they are available anymore - 25ish years ago, now, that I found them.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: lilfox on January 15, 2013, 05:41:38 PM
I think B should no longer have to pay half the shared room once B is moved out, but i don't think A is on the hook for sharing the second hotel room cost. that would be awkward: "hey, I'm moving to a new room so I won't pay the rest of my share on this one, and also could you chip in on my new room?"

If for some reason A agreed to pay half, they should a)pool the cost of the two rooms and split that, and b) split up nights for who gets the spa room.

Also, I've tried the moldable wax earplugs - not that comfortable and hard to get or keep a good seal, but when done correctly they did work against a reasonably loud snorer.  And I found them within the last 5 years so they are still available.  Limited number of uses per set, but the container I got came with 5 sets, I think.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Alpacas on January 15, 2013, 05:41:50 PM
I don't know what my earplugs are made of, but they feel like a soft foam. I got them from my brother, they're apparently used by our Military.
I survived 5 nights of a noisy HOstel in Dublin with them. ^_~

Maybe this could help, MOM21SON. http://www.macksearplugs.com/details/sleeping-earplugs/safe-sound-ultra-soft-foam-earplugs
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 15, 2013, 05:42:04 PM
Quote
I think both should have  discussed before they left - does either one snore? which gives them the choice to room together or get separate rooms ahead of time, bring earplugs, etc.

Siamese, I'm not disagreeing with you; I think you have an excellent point.

However, I think I'd amend your comment to just say that, if you're going to be rooming with someone else, it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and pack earplugs regardless of any discussion ahead of time.  Because some people don't know they snore.  And, as a previous poster mentioned, they may snore a little at home but snore more out of their usual surroundings.

So it might just be a better scenario to assume that you're going to be surrounded by noise (whether that's a snorer, noise from next door or whatever) and go ahead and tuck some earplugs in your luggage.  They're small and easy to pack.  And it would solve a host of problems in such an easy way.

 
Editing to add:
 
Quote
A should have let me know it might be a problem

A might not have known it would be a problem ahead of time.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: MOM21SON on January 15, 2013, 05:45:13 PM
I don't know what my earplugs are made of, but they feel like a soft foam. I got them from my brother, they're apparently used by our Military.
I survived 5 nights of a noisy HOstel in Dublin with them. ^_~

Maybe this could help, MOM21SON. http://www.macksearplugs.com/details/sleeping-earplugs/safe-sound-ultra-soft-foam-earplugs

Thank you.  I need to give something a try.  Our TV hangs on the shared wall with our bedroom and living room and DH likes everything loud!
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Alpacas on January 15, 2013, 05:47:49 PM
Quote
  Because some people don't know they snore.  And, as a previous poster mentioned, they may snore a little at home but snore more out of their usual surroundings.


I tend to snore when i change location (of a few hundred kilometers) so i warn my friends that i might snore and tell them to just wake me up.
Last time i was at a friends she threw a pillow at me, i woke up, turned over, and went back to sleep without snoring.  ;D


Thank you.  I need to give something a try.  Our TV hangs on the shared wall with our bedroom and living room and DH likes everything loud!

My mother did that too. I bought her headphones that she could wear at nights, and i could finally fall asleep again without hearing every commercial that was on TV
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 15, 2013, 05:48:44 PM
Quote
Last time i was at a friends she threw a pillow at me

Friends are so loving! ;D

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: snowdragon on January 15, 2013, 05:54:04 PM
I travel a *lot* with a lady who snores - and talks in herself. Some of our antics to deal with this are now legend in out circle like me sleeping in the bathroom.  Or out in the car. or once when she was screaming in terror - throwing the pillow, covers and even getting out of the bed and screaming "wake up!" at her. Sometimes ear plugs help, other times not so much. But it makes for good stories and she is a lovely woman, at least when she is awake. :)

  B would have adjusted, eventually, and A could have warned him, but I think B was nuts for thinking A should pay.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: pearls n purls on January 15, 2013, 06:11:49 PM
If A knew that he/she snores, B should have been told about it before hand.  But B had an extreme response.  B could have tried earplugs, asked A to roll over, tried white noise etc.  It sounds like B didn't even discuss the matter with A before deciding to get another room.   
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: LifeOnPluto on January 15, 2013, 08:27:26 PM
Ah, the vexed issue of snoring! I posted a question last year, relating to my DF's propensity to snore, and I recall it quickly ran to over 5 pages.

I totally get that B was feeling exhausted and frustrated. But I do think he was unreasonable in expecting A to pay part of the cost of the suite without trying other things first. As PPs have said, B could have tried earplugs, or  white noise machines. I personally think B would have also been ok in waking A up whenever he started snoring (although judging by the comments I received from my own thread on snoring, some people would consider this rude).

That said, if absolutely nothing worked, I think the onus would be on A to find a different room. If A refused to do so, then I think B might have a case for asking A to cover the cost of a new room.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: shygirl on January 15, 2013, 09:10:34 PM
Oh boy, I've been in B's place before!

I remember it well because due to a weather emergency (Hurricane Irene), I had to go out of town for work and help with the storm restoration.  I wasn't happy about that because it was the first time I was away from my kid, who had recently turned 1.  But then, I figured that it might mean I could actually get a good night's sleep.  (My kid was the worst sleeper ever.)

Unfortunately, I had to room with somebody from work because there was shortage of hotel rooms.  It was a holiday weekend, and also people who had no power for too long were getting hotel rooms.

I found out the first night that my roomie SNORED.  At first, I tried really hard to ignore her and sleep, but if was futile.  So I wandered around the hotel for a while, went out to my car, and eventually went back to the room hoping that she had stopped.  Not so much, and out of frustration I said "Roomie!" and woke her up by mistake.  She said "what?".  I asked if she knew that she snored really, REALLY loud?  She had no idea!  Apparently, her SO sleeps with a CPAP mask, so he doesn't hear anything.

Anyway, after I woke her up, I actually did manage to go to sleep for a short while.  The next night, we stopped at CVS and I bought earplugs.  We didn't have the option of splitting up because of the shortage of hotel rooms.  The earplugs, coupled with the 2 drinks I had that night, really helped me sleep.

Roomie felt horrible about the first night, but we do joke about it now.

B should have tried to find some other option before moving to another room and asking A to subsidize it.

ETA:  Oops!  Got A and B mixed up.  Thanks DottyG for pointing it out!
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 15, 2013, 09:32:23 PM
Quote
I think both should have  discussed before they left - does either one snore? which gives them the choice to room together or get separate rooms ahead of time, bring earplugs, etc.

Siamese, I'm not disagreeing with you; I think you have an excellent point.

However, I think I'd amend your comment to just say that, if you're going to be rooming with someone else, it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and pack earplugs regardless of any discussion ahead of time.  Because some people don't know they snore.  And, as a previous poster mentioned, they may snore a little at home but snore more out of their usual surroundings.

So it might just be a better scenario to assume that you're going to be surrounded by noise (whether that's a snorer, noise from next door or whatever) and go ahead and tuck some earplugs in your luggage.  They're small and easy to pack.  And it would solve a host of problems in such an easy way.

 
Editing to add:
 
Quote
A should have let me know it might be a problem

A might not have known it would be a problem ahead of time.

I actually do this, not just for those who might be unfortunate enough to share a room with me, but for me too! I am the queen of preparedness!  My mom snores, but as she uses hearing aids, once they're out, she hears nothing. So I bring them to drown her out!

I also shared a cabin on a cruise with a friend who snores louder than me. Her husband describes it as loud enough to take the paint off the walls! we were ok aside form one night when I informed her the next morning she came thiiiis close to being smothered with a pillow, she was so loud.  But  as she one of my best friends, we just laughed about it, and still do.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: zyrs on January 16, 2013, 06:40:41 AM
Did B ever mention A that A snores?  There are options for this - going to sleep first, wearing earplugs, waking the snorer.  If those don't work, then you talk about another room.

B was definitely in the wrong for expecting A to pay for a different room, and should have checked out earplugs as a second option.  The first option would be to mention it to A.

 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Cami on January 16, 2013, 06:54:44 AM
Did B ever mention A that A snores?  There are options for this - going to sleep first, wearing earplugs, waking the snorer.  If those don't work, then you talk about another room.

B was definitely in the wrong for expecting A to pay for a different room, and should have checked out earplugs as a second option.  The first option would be to mention it to A.

My dh snores occasionally and usually when we travel. I am a light sleeper to begin with. Going to sleep first only means that I get five minutes of sleep before he wakes me up. If I woke  him every time he snored, I'd be up all night waking him up. Those are not viable options.

I have yet to find earplugs that stay in my ears.

I will also add that being kept awake or woken by snoring infuriates me -- it's just this primal response of anger I get about it because we're traveling and we usually can't afford 2 rooms, so I'm now stuck not sleeping and now my next day of vacation will suck because I'm exhausted. The last time I tried to sleep in the car and security found me and woke me up and gave me a heart attack and a stern lecture about "acting like a vagrant and sleeping in a car."  So when woken due to his snoring I have a surge of adrenaline and then I can't get back to sleep even if he were to stop snoring.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: cicero on January 16, 2013, 07:03:51 AM
A and B (same gender) are sharing a twin room on a conference or group trip etc.
From the first night, A snores. Loudly. So loud, in fact, that B does not sleep at all. On the third night, B asks the hotel for a private room but the only one available is a suite, which is $xxx a night. As B is suffering from sleep deprivation, he takes the room but asks A to cover some of the cost. A refuses, especially since it's an expensive spa suite.

Questions-
Is B out of line for expecting A to cover the cost of his new room?
If A does cover half the cost, who gets the new suite? Is A entitled to take the spa suite if he chips in?
why couldn't they both move to the suite and have one sleep in the bedroom and one in the living room (assuming it was a bedroom with a door)?

and did A let B know ahead of time that A snores?

This is a toughie - I think neither of them are being SSs but A should have let B know ahead of time about the snoring. *I* snore (not every night but I know that I do sometimes, especially in winter) and for this reason I would never share a room with someone. So I think the A in this story should not have shared a room because A is not being fair to his roommate.

Once it is established that B cannot stay in that room, and it's A's *fault* (yes A is not purposely snoring but it is something that A is doing that is preventng B from sleeping), and I don't think B should pay the entire amount. (again - i don't know if B knew ahead of time. because maybe had B known in advance, then he could have gotten a different roommate or a cheaper room).

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: JoyinVirginia on January 16, 2013, 07:20:43 AM
I am A. I snore. Loudly. My older dd will not share a room with me because I snore so loudly.
I warn people before we go on a trip if we have to share a room, and tell them to bring earplugs if the noise will bother them.
In this case, if there was no warning from A, B should have tried earplugs, if that didn't work then fissure out room cost situation prior to switching.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: camlan on January 16, 2013, 07:42:38 AM
I snore because of allergies. At home, I think I have the situation pretty much under control, with decongestants and antihistamines and a few other techniques.

But traveling? In an area with different allergens than I'm used to? With hotels that have scented cleaners and detergents and the like? Usually my allergies react badly to all that. I do everything I can to reduce/eliminate the snoring, but I warn people ahead of time that it could happen.

Frankly, I try to avoid sharing a room just to prevent comments about the snoring. I'd rather pay full price for the room than have to listen to comments about my snoring for the next several months.

So there's a good possibility that A either doesn't know he snores or that he thinks the snoring is under control. First step should have been to talk to A about the problem. Then ear plugs if possible. But expecting A to pay for half of a very expensive room--that was B's choice, and B should pay.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Victim Of Fate on January 16, 2013, 07:57:45 AM
I don't know if I'm coming at this from a different perspective as a snorer, but I think B has very little legroom here.

1. I think even if there were another standard room available, B would be a little out of line for even asking A to cover the entire cost of the first room if they had previously agreed to split the cost of a twin room, let alone expecting it. Asking A to cover the entire cost of the original room plus half the cost of the new room would be so totally out of line that I assume the OP means the former (i.e. that they split the cost of both rooms). I still think this would be out of line as an expectation.

2. If B did ask A to split the cost of a suite and A agreed, I don't know by what grounds A would not be entitled to take the nicer room.

Snoring is not something people can control, it's not always something that people know they do, and it's sometimes exacerbated by sleeping in a different bed. I think if you agree to split the cost of a room with someone who you've not shared with before, you should expect that snoring is a possibility. And, as others have said, earplugs, headphones, are a better solution than changing room.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Twik on January 16, 2013, 08:55:53 AM
If you have problems such as allergies/hard to fit, you might be able to find the best selection of earplugs at a health and safety supply store. You can get different materials and sizes, as well as plugs rated to drop the noise by various amounts.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: CaptainObvious on January 16, 2013, 08:59:22 AM
If a person is single and lives alone, they may not even know that they snore. People are only aware of their snoring because someone else told them. And allergies, dry air, ect can cause a person to snore, when they regularly don't.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Eden on January 16, 2013, 09:02:55 AM
Another reason I think B was out of line is that B booked the room without consulting A and then asked A to split the cost. Or at least that's how it reads to me. I think it's one of those things you just learn from and don't book with A again in the future and learn to ask if potential roomies snore.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 16, 2013, 10:25:30 AM
I have a question about ear plugs.  It seems like in every thread we have about snoring, getting ear plugs is suggested as a way to tolerate the problem.

Whenever I have worn ear plugs, I can hear myself breathing.  That is as distracting to me as hearing someone else snoring.  I can't sleep if I can hear myself breathing, so ear plugs wouldn't work for me.  Besides that, I find them uncomfortable.

Are ear plugs really a good solution?
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2013, 10:28:52 AM
I have to say that earplugs have been a pretty decent solution when I've roomed with people who snore.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: shivering on January 16, 2013, 10:36:06 AM
B is out of line. I've been B and while it's frustrating, that's the risk one takes when sharing a room. If B wants to change rooms, it's on B.

Now, if A knows that he/she snores regularly, I do think A should try to get a single room at the outset or at the very least warn B. However, people don't always realize that they snore loudly or it may only happen occasionally because of a cold, allergies, or air quality.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: GrammarNerd on January 16, 2013, 10:44:51 AM
I went to a hobby convention once where it was common for people to share rooms to save on cost.  Most people had three roommates (4 to a room), but I wanted my own bed even though I knew it would double my cost.  Plus, I was 6 months pregnant and had some insomnia, and I generally toss and turn for a bit before falling asleep.  I didn't want to subject someone else to my tossing and turning.

So I found someone else who would share a double with me.  She was very nice.  Then came the first night.  Oh, MAN, did she snore!!  I'd started wearing those little foam earplugs to bed b/c my DH snores, but I didn't have any since he wasn't with me.  She snored so loudly, I thought it was really my DH (seriously sounded like him).  So with insomnia and then the snoring once I actually could fall asleep, it wasn't a good situation.

So I schlepped out of the tourist area and found a pharmacy and bought some of those little foam things.  HEAVEN!!  I still had insomnia, but I eventually slept so soundly that I didn't wake up until about 9 a.m. and was late for the session the next day.  Roomie even tried to wake me up and I never heard her!  I never confessed to her that she snored b/c I couldn't think of a good way to put it, and the earplugs did help. 

I'm so used to the earplugs after years of snoring that I even like to use them now when he's not with me.

Re: the original story, I think B should have tried some earplugs or done something before it got to a blow-up point.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Twik on January 16, 2013, 10:45:08 AM
I have a question about ear plugs.  It seems like in every thread we have about snoring, getting ear plugs is suggested as a way to tolerate the problem.

Whenever I have worn ear plugs, I can hear myself breathing.  That is as distracting to me as hearing someone else snoring.  I can't sleep if I can hear myself breathing, so ear plugs wouldn't work for me.  Besides that, I find them uncomfortable.

Are ear plugs really a good solution?

I think wearing them in general is something to which you have to get habituated, but if they're uncomfortable, you're perhaps wearing the wrong size or type.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Surianne on January 16, 2013, 11:10:07 AM
I agree with those who have said asking B to contribute to the second room is out of line.  I also agree that if A knew her snoring was extreme, she should have mentioned it up front -- but as others have said, she may not have known. 

As an aside, I've always hated sleeping with earplugs in, but I've found using my ipod with a good noise-blocking soundtrack to be quite helpful. 

I have some that are white/pink/brown noise (brown noise is great if you hate the hissiness of white noise) and some that are nature sounds -- rainstorms or babbling brook sounds really work for me in hotels or visiting my snoring family.  The only problem is I have to get up more to pee, from listening to all that water :) but it's worth it!
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: GoTwins on January 16, 2013, 11:53:25 AM
I have a question about ear plugs.  It seems like in every thread we have about snoring, getting ear plugs is suggested as a way to tolerate the problem.

Whenever I have worn ear plugs, I can hear myself breathing.  That is as distracting to me as hearing someone else snoring.  I can't sleep if I can hear myself breathing, so ear plugs wouldn't work for me.  Besides that, I find them uncomfortable.

Are ear plugs really a good solution?
I'm exactly like you. I'm such a light sleeper that I can't wear earplugs due to the sound of my breathing. It wouldn't matter if I could find a comfortable pair. I also wouldn't be able to hear the alarm I use so they aren't an option.
This is why it's on *ME* to get my own room when travelling. I know I can't share with a snorer so I am willing to pay extra.
When my husband starts snoring I can just give him the "elbow" and he changes positions and stops. I can't do that with someone else. ;D
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: misha412 on January 16, 2013, 12:05:17 PM
My fiance snores like a freight train. I can sleep through it some nights, but many nights it wakes me up. I keep a pair of silicone earplugs close at hand. It muffles the sounds to a manageable level. I had to get used to the sound of my own breathing, but within a few nights, it has not been a problem.



Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: sparksals on January 16, 2013, 12:11:44 PM
I am quite surprised by the answers here putting it on B to deal with the snoring issue.  B was definitely wrong to expect A to pay for the 2nd room, but A was wrong being a snorer to share a room with B.  I don't buy A doesn't know she snores. 

B has been put in a position of no sleep because of A's problem.  It is not on B to just suck it up and deal with it.  A should have warned B to give B a fair chance to agree (or not) to share a room.  It is not fair to B to have to lose sleep because of A's snoring. 

B did not handle it well, but as a very light sleeper and a middle aged woman with middle aged woman sleeping issues (and lack thereof), it is VERY frustrating not being able to sleep b/c of someone else. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Isisnin on January 16, 2013, 12:18:40 PM
Based on all the posts, it seems that everyone should travel with earplugs.  You never know when you may need them - either for yourself or to offer to a roomie.

For those who have trouble with earplugs, try the polar fleece headbands that go around your head and over your ears.  I wear them in the winter and find them so comfortable that I have fallen asleep with them on.  They do well insulate against noise. When I am outside talking to people I often have to pull them back off my ears so I can hear.

B needed to speak to A first.  But that doesn't mean that A would have had to pay for half the room, even if A knew about the snoring.   Even if they had discussed it, that wouldn't guarantee they would have thought of the ear plugs.

Organizers of such trips should recommend on the brochures/flyers that everyone bring earplugs. 

My mother was a VERY loud snorer.  When we traveled, we kids would fight over who would room with her.  When I was rooming with her, I'd shout "Quiet!'  and she stopped.  It never occurred to me that she probably knew I was doing that as she never mentioned it.  Oddly, that was probably fair, we were both getting woken up at the same time!

Some years ago, a friend and I went on a trip together.  She was clearly angry the next morning.  I had no idea what was up with her and didn't ask out of respect that she had a private issue she didn't want to confine in me and to give her time in general.  At some point, I realized she was mad at me but I couldn't figure out why.  I wouldn't play her passive-aggressive game and ask her.  It was an awful weekend. 

Some time after that, someone else told me I snored.  That was probably what she was angry about. But the damage had been done. We weren't really friends after that.  Just acquaintances in the same circle of friends.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: misha412 on January 16, 2013, 12:19:37 PM
I am quite surprised by the answers here putting it on B to deal with the snoring issue.  B was definitely wrong to expect A to pay for the 2nd room, but A was wrong being a snorer to share a room with B.  I don't buy A doesn't know she snores. 

B has been put in a position of no sleep because of A's problem.  It is not on B to just suck it up and deal with it.  A should have warned B to give B a fair chance to agree (or not) to share a room.  It is not fair to B to have to lose sleep because of A's snoring. 

B did not handle it well, but as a very light sleeper and a middle aged woman with middle aged woman sleeping issues (and lack thereof), it is VERY frustrating not being able to sleep b/c of someone else.

Just conjecture on my part...

If aware of the problem, A likely thinks the snoring is a minor sound and may not realize the sheer loudness of the snoring. B may be a very light sleeper and even the slightest snoring can be a major problem.

The first night was B's warning about the problem. After that point, B had a choice. B could get another room. B could get earplugs. B could go home. B could insist A pay for half of the other room. B could insist A get another room. B could insist A go home. B could insist A have throat surgery to correct the snoring problem. B could insist A get tested for sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine.

All of those choices show why B had to take action to solve the situation. B could insist on A doing many things. But, B cannot make A do anything. B can only control B.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Miss Unleaded on January 16, 2013, 12:23:26 PM
I have a question about ear plugs.  It seems like in every thread we have about snoring, getting ear plugs is suggested as a way to tolerate the problem.

Whenever I have worn ear plugs, I can hear myself breathing.  That is as distracting to me as hearing someone else snoring.  I can't sleep if I can hear myself breathing, so ear plugs wouldn't work for me.  Besides that, I find them uncomfortable.

Are ear plugs really a good solution?

Not for me.  I really can't wear them while sleeping because I worry about sleeping through the alarm clock, and about whether I would hear it if a fire alarm went off, or someone broke into the room, or some similar situation.  Hence I'd not be able to go to sleep at all in the first place.  And believe me, with a snoring husband and three noisy cats I have tried the earplug route. I am a really light sleeper and have had many a sleepless night.  :(
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: CluelessBride on January 16, 2013, 12:24:05 PM
I don't buy A doesn't know she snores. 

Why not? You can't exactly hear yourself snore, so unless someone has told you previously you wouldn't know. Also, most, if not all, people will snore sometimes. For example, I only snore if I get congested. 99% of the time if I take a decongestant the snoring stops completely. Occasionally I'm left with quiet half snoring (apparently easy to sleep through). But unless DH tells me I'm snoring, I don't know to take the decongestant.

So I put this all on person B. It's possible a $5 box of decongestants would have solved the issue. It's possible an inexpensive set of earplugs would have solved the issue. But they went nuclear and rented an expensive extra room.

Personally, I think its silly to assume that a room partner *won't* snore. Because even if they don't normally snore, they may snore on the trip. If you are such a light sleeper that you can't fall/stay asleep with snoring, you should be upfront about your issue and/or not share a room.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2013, 12:25:02 PM
I think that a lot of snorers probably sleep though their snoring so it doesn't seem all that unbelievable that they should be unaware of their habit. I believe many people only do it under certain circumstances, as well.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Queen of Clubs on January 16, 2013, 12:50:38 PM
I snore - very, very loudly.  How do I know?  The two times I've gone away, the person I was sharing with told me.  :-[  When I agreed to share a room with person #2, I warned her in advance so she brought ear plugs.

If A knows s/he snores, s/he needs to warn his/her roomie.  Unless A was very aware that s/he snores and that B would not be able to sleep, I think B is out of line renting another room and expecting A to pay half.  They're definitely out of line expecting A to chip in half for a more expensive room.  What percent of equally-priced room A should cover in the case of A knowing what a problem his/her snoring would be for B, well, I don't know.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 16, 2013, 12:51:51 PM
I don't buy A doesn't know she snores.

We don't know that from the OP but it is very possible.  I live alone.  I've lived alone for over 25 years.  I had no idea I snored until I was sharing a room with someone who told me.  Since I'm a stomach sleeper, which is not an optimal snoring position, I had no reason to believe I did snore.

Now, in a room sharing situation, I always warn my potential roommate that I snore.  And when someone else tells me they snore, I let them know that I wear earplugs so it's no problem.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Tea Drinker on January 16, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
If I am considering sharing a room with someone, I warn them that I snore occasionally, and that I am a morning person--if you are a light sleeper and don't want to risk being awakened by me moving around to shower and dress, we shouldn't room together.

I may start adding "and if you snore loudly enough to keep me awake, I will call your name and/or nudge you awake so I can fall asleep first." I won't be awakened by someone snoring, but I often can't fall asleep if I am listening to snoring--and I'm no longer prepared to lie awake for hours rather than the snorer having to sit up for half an hour while I fall asleep. If someone finds that unreasonable, best we know it beforehand and do something else, rather than have a fight the next morning and/or have to look for another room at the last minute.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: White Lotus on January 16, 2013, 04:36:28 PM
So, somebody's snoring is keeping me from sleeping.  I am supposed to wake them up and discuss what to do about it in the middle of the night?!?  Or I am supposed to suck it up and be up all night until I can buy earplugs?  It is all on me, as the unwilling and sleepless audience?
My Flabber is Ghasted (thanks for coining that!).
Per the Prof, I do not normally snore.  I do not share rooms with anyone but him, normally, either, but got into a Rosemary and Thyme situation where I had to share a room with someone else.  It was full of allergens and I snored.  I was mortified!  She woke me, I rolled over and bought decongestants the next day, so all was OK, but had she gone for another room, I would have gladly coughed up half the cost of the rooms.  Unfortunately, there were no more rooms -- I did check the next day -- but I wouldn't have been upset at all -- just apologetic that I had caused her such discomfort.  The snorer certainly bears some responsibility for being a good roommate. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: VorFemme on January 16, 2013, 07:17:37 PM
I started sleeping in the guest room because VorGuy snores (or at least makes odd noises while breathing - puffing and whistling noises from a broken nose that never healed correctly) - and once he finally quits snoring (after he's been asleep for two or three hours), I am so exhausted that when I finally get to sleep after 1 am that I start snoring (breathing noisily - whatever you want to call it).

So I wake him up from 10 pm to 1 am and he wakes me up from 1 am or so until he gets up to shower, shave, and get ready for work.

Vacations are "interesting" if we are sharing one bed - two beds in one room is easier.

I've tried ear plugs.  I am a side sleeper and the plugs rub against the pillowcases - making a really odd rasping noise in my head.....they don't help at all.  Putting an extra pillow over my head helps a bit more....

But I've been the light sleeper with the snoring person in the hotel room.  If it isn't easy to bring up to your own spouse, it is ten times worse to bring up to anyone else. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: LifeOnPluto on January 16, 2013, 08:01:24 PM
I have a question about ear plugs.  It seems like in every thread we have about snoring, getting ear plugs is suggested as a way to tolerate the problem.

Whenever I have worn ear plugs, I can hear myself breathing.  That is as distracting to me as hearing someone else snoring.  I can't sleep if I can hear myself breathing, so ear plugs wouldn't work for me.  Besides that, I find them uncomfortable.

Are ear plugs really a good solution?

For me, they're not a good solution. I find them uncomfortable, and they don't really seem to work that well anyway.

That said, I've only tried one brand. Perhaps I just need to try others (like those sillicone ones people have mentioned).

I also had another thought: what if it wasn't possible for B to buy earplugs? It's possible there were no pharmacies or supermarkets within walking distance of their hotel, and who knows if they had transport available? Also, what if their work schedule didn't allow B any spare time to go out and buy earplugs? In that case, I think B has a stronger argument in favour of getting another room, and requiring A to share some of the cost.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 16, 2013, 08:41:45 PM
I don't think so. Just about every hotel has a gift shop where there would be earplugs. And, in ones that don't, Housekeeping is amazing at locating things you might be needing. I've gotten emergency things from them that I hadn't really expected them to have - but was pleasantly surprised when they did.

I think there were options to try before jumping to the new room. Did B even attempt them?

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: AnnaJ on January 16, 2013, 09:23:31 PM
I am quite surprised by the answers here putting it on B to deal with the snoring issue.  B was definitely wrong to expect A to pay for the 2nd room, but A was wrong being a snorer to share a room with B. I don't buy A doesn't know she snores. 

B has been put in a position of no sleep because of A's problem.  It is not on B to just suck it up and deal with it.  A should have warned B to give B a fair chance to agree (or not) to share a room.  It is not fair to B to have to lose sleep because of A's snoring. 

B did not handle it well, but as a very light sleeper and a middle aged woman with middle aged woman sleeping issues (and lack thereof), it is VERY frustrating not being able to sleep b/c of someone else.

I had no idea I snored until I was in a roommate situation at a hotel - I live alone and certainly don't wake myself snoring...well, at least I don't remember if I do  ;D  Honestly, it is perfectly possible A had no idea s/he snored.  I feel sorry for B, but don't automatically see it as A being 'wrong'.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 16, 2013, 10:01:08 PM
What if it wasn't snoring, but someone wanting the TV on all night as opposed to someone who needs complete silence to sleep.  Or someone who is an early riser as opposed to someone to has a hard time getting up in the morning.

Just because you(general) decide you can't deal with a quirk of the person you are sharing a room with doesn't mean that that person has to foot the bill because you decide you need a new room.  If you don't do anything to manage the problem like talk to the person with the quirk to see if you can work around it and just decide to get a new room, then that is a decision you have made on your own.  Why should the other person help foot the bill if you aren't willing to work with them.  And how fair is it to the other person to suddenly have to pay for a room on their own, when they thought they were splitting the cost evenly?
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 16, 2013, 10:22:54 PM
And how fair is it to the other person to suddenly have to pay for a room on their own, when they thought they were splitting the cost evenly?

I definitely agree that the person who snores shouldn't have to pay for any part of the additional room rental.  However, I don't agree that the person who does NOT snore should have to pay for part of Snorer's room as well as the new room.  It's not his/her fault the other person snores.  And I know, the person who snores didn't choose to be a snorer, but that doesn't mean they don't have to accept the consequences of it.  If you snore so bad you drive away your roommate, sorry, but you get to cover the cost of the room yourself.  It's a bummer, but why should the other person have to incur double the cost?
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Victim Of Fate on January 17, 2013, 06:13:24 AM

I definitely agree that the person who snores shouldn't have to pay for any part of the additional room rental.  However, I don't agree that the person who does NOT snore should have to pay for part of Snorer's room as well as the new room.  It's not his/her fault the other person snores.  And I know, the person who snores didn't choose to be a snorer, but that doesn't mean they don't have to accept the consequences of it.  If you snore so bad you drive away your roommate, sorry, but you get to cover the cost of the room yourself.  It's a bummer, but why should the other person have to incur double the cost?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Isisnin on January 17, 2013, 07:55:46 AM
What if it wasn't snoring, but someone wanting the TV on all night as opposed to someone who needs complete silence to sleep.  Or someone who is an early riser as opposed to someone to has a hard time getting up in the morning.

Just because you(general) decide you can't deal with a quirk of the person you are sharing a room with doesn't mean that that person has to foot the bill because you decide you need a new room. If you don't do anything to manage the problem like talk to the person with the quirk to see if you can work around it and just decide to get a new room, then that is a decision you have made on your own.  Why should the other person help foot the bill if you aren't willing to work with them.  And how fair is it to the other person to suddenly have to pay for a room on their own, when they thought they were splitting the cost evenly?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.

These. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Cami on January 17, 2013, 08:01:44 AM

I definitely agree that the person who snores shouldn't have to pay for any part of the additional room rental.  However, I don't agree that the person who does NOT snore should have to pay for part of Snorer's room as well as the new room.  It's not his/her fault the other person snores.  And I know, the person who snores didn't choose to be a snorer, but that doesn't mean they don't have to accept the consequences of it.  If you snore so bad you drive away your roommate, sorry, but you get to cover the cost of the room yourself.  It's a bummer, but why should the other person have to incur double the cost?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.
I don't think it's a choice to move rooms in order to sleep. Having been the person kept awake by a snorer for several nights, I can say that sleep is necessary and finding a way to get it is a necessity, not a choice.

Also in the case of hotel roommates, the snorer is effectively breaking the contract of room use. If I agree to share a room with you, then part of the agreement is that I will be able to sleep in that room. If you do something -- voluntarily or not -- that prevents me from sleeping in that room, the value of that room is now zero to me and I will not pay for zero value. I wouldn't ask you to pay for my room, but I'm sure not going to pay for a room I cannot use. Nor, frankly, do I feel the onus is on me to spend time and money to find ways to ameliorate a problem you've caused by searching and paying for and trying to learn to sleep in ear plugs or a white noise machine, etc.  Especially as none of that may work and I'll still be sleepless and have paid even more for the privilege of being sleepless.

And snoring is not a quirk.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Surianne on January 17, 2013, 08:29:42 AM

I definitely agree that the person who snores shouldn't have to pay for any part of the additional room rental.  However, I don't agree that the person who does NOT snore should have to pay for part of Snorer's room as well as the new room.  It's not his/her fault the other person snores.  And I know, the person who snores didn't choose to be a snorer, but that doesn't mean they don't have to accept the consequences of it.  If you snore so bad you drive away your roommate, sorry, but you get to cover the cost of the room yourself.  It's a bummer, but why should the other person have to incur double the cost?

Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.

I agree.  Unless the non-snorer is upfront when agreeing to share rooms that they absolutely cannot sleep with any snoring, and won't try earplugs or headphones, then I don't think the snorer should be asked to pay any additional costs here.

I'm a very, very light sleeper.  Hotels are not always quiet places, so I make sure I have a way to deal with that -- headphones, in my case, rather than earplugs.  The light sleeper could have come prepared for unexpected noises, but didn't. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Margo on January 17, 2013, 08:49:41 AM
<snip >


Also in the case of hotel roommates, the snorer is effectively breaking the contract of room use. If I agree to share a room with you, then part of the agreement is that I will be able to sleep in that room. If you do something -- voluntarily or not -- that prevents me from sleeping in that room, the value of that room is now zero to me and I will not pay for zero value. I wouldn't ask you to pay for my room, but I'm sure not going to pay for a room I cannot use. Nor, frankly, do I feel the onus is on me to spend time and money to find ways to ameliorate a problem you've caused by searching and paying for and trying to learn to sleep in ear plugs or a white noise machine, etc.  Especially as none of that may work and I'll still be sleepless and have paid even more for the privilege of being sleepless.

And snoring is not a quirk.

I don't agree with this, especially the bolded. I think that would only be true if you are talking about a person doing something voluntarily.

You could equally well argue that the problem is caused, not by one room mate snoring but by the other being being a light sleeper. Neither is voluntary, neither is done by choice, and the individuals concerned may not necessarily know in advance.

If you (generic you) agree to share a room and split the costs, you agree to share the room and split the costs. You don't get to change that agreement in ways which cost the other person money unless they are *deliberately* breaking their side of the bargain.

If you know of characteristics of yours that may impact on that they it's your responsibility to tell the roommate and also to take reasonable steps to address the problems. But my light sleeping / difficulty with earplugs is just as much the 'cause' of the problem as your snoring (or vice versa,) so it's just as much my responsibility to tell you that I'm a very light sleeper and ask whether you are (to your knowledge) a snorer or otherwise noisy.

 
I think B was out of line. If B wanted to move to a new room, that is his/her choice. But s/he  was still responsible for keeping to his/her part of the original agreement, and paying for 50% of the original room.

And B should certainly not be asking A to pay anything towards B's new room.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: TootsNYC on January 17, 2013, 09:26:33 AM
What if it wasn't snoring, but someone wanting the TV on all night as opposed to someone who needs complete silence to sleep.  Or someone who is an early riser as opposed to someone to has a hard time getting up in the morning.

Just because you(general) decide you can't deal with a quirk of the person you are sharing a room with doesn't mean that that person has to foot the bill because you decide you need a new room.  If you don't do anything to manage the problem like talk to the person with the quirk to see if you can work around it and just decide to get a new room, then that is a decision you have made on your own.  Why should the other person help foot the bill if you aren't willing to work with them.  And how fair is it to the other person to suddenly have to pay for a room on their own, when they thought they were splitting the cost evenly?

complete and total straw man--not related at all.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 17, 2013, 11:11:17 AM
I'm going to combine some posts from above.

Victim of Fate:
Quote
Because it's that person's choice to move room. I'm sorry, but if you are going to renege on a previously made agreement, then it's up to you to cover the cost. If the snorer is willing to pay for the first room in it's entirety, then that's a bonus, but I don't think that they should be expected to, and I think it's rude to ask.

Surianne
Quote
Hotels are not always quiet places, so I make sure I have a way to deal with that -- headphones, in my case, rather than earplugs.  The light sleeper could have come prepared for unexpected noises, but didn't.

Margo
Quote
But my light sleeping / difficulty with earplugs is just as much the 'cause' of the problem as your snoring (or vice versa,) so it's just as much my responsibility to tell you that I'm a very light sleeper and ask whether you are (to your knowledge) a snorer or otherwise noisy.

All three are perfectly stated.  I agree with them completely.

Hotels are noisy - whether you're in a room with a person who snores or not.  There are people next door, possible kids running down the hall, tvs, people above you,.....  If you're a light sleeper, it would seem to me that you'd already be prepared for noise, because it's going to be there even if you're alone in the room.

I don't see the problem here as being only with the person who's snoring.  I think both people have a responsibility to uphold the contract they agreed upon.  And that includes B.  If B wants to break the contract, that's fine.  But that's not A's responsibility to foot the result of that decision.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: sparksals on January 17, 2013, 04:41:01 PM
So, somebody's snoring is keeping me from sleeping.  I am supposed to wake them up and discuss what to do about it in the middle of the night?!?  Or I am supposed to suck it up and be up all night until I can buy earplugs?  It is all on me, as the unwilling and sleepless audience?
My Flabber is Ghasted (thanks for coining that!).
Per the Prof, I do not normally snore.  I do not share rooms with anyone but him, normally, either, but got into a Rosemary and Thyme situation where I had to share a room with someone else.  It was full of allergens and I snored.  I was mortified!  She woke me, I rolled over and bought decongestants the next day, so all was OK, but had she gone for another room, I would have gladly coughed up half the cost of the rooms.  Unfortunately, there were no more rooms -- I did check the next day -- but I wouldn't have been upset at all -- just apologetic that I had caused her such discomfort.  The snorer certainly bears some responsibility for being a good roommate.

That is my line of thinking too.  I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: onyonryngs on January 17, 2013, 04:46:06 PM
So, somebody's snoring is keeping me from sleeping.  I am supposed to wake them up and discuss what to do about it in the middle of the night?!?  Or I am supposed to suck it up and be up all night until I can buy earplugs?  It is all on me, as the unwilling and sleepless audience?
My Flabber is Ghasted (thanks for coining that!).
Per the Prof, I do not normally snore.  I do not share rooms with anyone but him, normally, either, but got into a Rosemary and Thyme situation where I had to share a room with someone else.  It was full of allergens and I snored.  I was mortified!  She woke me, I rolled over and bought decongestants the next day, so all was OK, but had she gone for another room, I would have gladly coughed up half the cost of the rooms.  Unfortunately, there were no more rooms -- I did check the next day -- but I wouldn't have been upset at all -- just apologetic that I had caused her such discomfort.  The snorer certainly bears some responsibility for being a good roommate.

That is my line of thinking too.  I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed.

Some people snore for medical reasons.  If you can't sleep, wake them up and see if they can switch to sleeping on their side, but they're not required to buy you a new room.   It would be nice if they bought you earplugs, but they're not expensive and it's always a good idea to have them ready when you're planning on sleeping with someone you don't know well.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: CluelessBride on January 17, 2013, 05:35:21 PM
So, somebody's snoring is keeping me from sleeping.  I am supposed to wake them up and discuss what to do about it in the middle of the night?!?  Or I am supposed to suck it up and be up all night until I can buy earplugs?  It is all on me, as the unwilling and sleepless audience?
My Flabber is Ghasted (thanks for coining that!).
Per the Prof, I do not normally snore.  I do not share rooms with anyone but him, normally, either, but got into a Rosemary and Thyme situation where I had to share a room with someone else.  It was full of allergens and I snored.  I was mortified!  She woke me, I rolled over and bought decongestants the next day, so all was OK, but had she gone for another room, I would have gladly coughed up half the cost of the rooms.  Unfortunately, there were no more rooms -- I did check the next day -- but I wouldn't have been upset at all -- just apologetic that I had caused her such discomfort.  The snorer certainly bears some responsibility for being a good roommate.

That is my line of thinking too.  I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed.

Well for one, in the particular case of the OP the non-snorer waited 2 nights before getting a room without consulting the snorer. There was ample opportunity to bring it up during waking hours to find a not expensive solution. If you have agreed to pay half for a room, you need to uphold that unless the other person agrees to let you off the hook. I'd feel the same if someone backed out of a shared room situation the day of because they were sick. So in this case I definitely think B is in the wrong. Although if A is financially able I think it would be nice to offer to pay for the entirety of the original room. But if it is a financial hardship I don't think they are required to.

Otherwise, I mean, who decides whether the snoring (or other night time noise or quirk that makes it impossible for the other roommate to sleep)  is loud enough to require the snorer to pay extra vs. the light sleeper to pay extra. A couple 40 decibel snores once an hour the light sleeper pays but constant 100 decibel snoring requires the snorer to pay? What if the person doesn't snore, but the light sleeper discovers they are bothered by the breathing of the other person? My feeling is that if you (general) decide on your own to book a new separate room for any reason, that cost is on you.

It's not that the snorer can't be expected to make modifications or sacrifices. It's that a) they can't be expected to make them unless they are alerted to a problem and b) they should be reasonable expectations like buying decongestant, not having to eat ramen for a month to afford the additional several hundred dollars of hotel rooms someone booked without first consulting them.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 17, 2013, 05:37:45 PM
Quote
I don't know why responsibility to fix this falls on the non-snorer, the one whose sleep is disturbed.

But, by the same token, why does none of the responsibility fall on the non-snorer - who has options (as has been noted in this thread) and has now jumped to the most extreme of those options before trying anything else?

I think there is some responsibility in making sure you have what you need in order to get some sleep.  If you know you're a light sleeper and you forgot your earplugs, that's not someone else's fault.
 
CluelessBride posted at the same time I was, but she makes an excellent point that I thought I'd reiterate:
 
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It's not that the snorer can't be expected to make modifications or sacrifices. It's that a) they can't be expected to make them unless they are alerted to a problem and b) they should be reasonable expectations like buying decongestant, not having to eat ramen for a month to afford the additional several hundred dollars of hotel rooms someone booked without first consulting them.

I don't think (unless I'm missing it) anyone's saying that the snorer doesn't have some responsibility to try to do what they can to alleviate whatever snoring is possible to alleviate.  If a decongestant would solve the problem, great.  (Understand that I'm saying that they do what they can; it may not be possible to completely eliminate the snoring - unfortunately, it's really not that simple.  I'm sure there are many, upon many, people who wish it were.)  But, likewise, the non-snorer has options that he/she can take as well.  And those options include some that don't require getting another room before the lesser choices.
 
And, at the very least, the non-snorer can alert the snorer that they are snoring.  A snorer can't do whatever they can do without knowing there's a problem to begin with.  An uncomfortable discussion to have with someone?  Of course.  But, exactly how is "I'm going to overreact and get another room because you've kept me awake for 3 nights even though I haven't told you about it until now and by the way I want you to pay for part of it!" an easier conversation than saying (after the first night), "Hey, Jane.  I'm an incredibly light sleeper - in fact, it's a joke in my family that I can wake up at a pin dropping in the next room!  I'm not sure if you realize it, but you snore a bit.  I was wondering if maybe the air here is a little dry and if you might need to take a decongestant.  I know that part of it's my responsibilty, too, so I'm going to try some earplugs"?
 

 

 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: sparksals on January 18, 2013, 12:12:01 PM
I stated earlier that I believe B was wrong to unilaterally get a new room expecting A to pay. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: lmyrs on January 18, 2013, 03:07:44 PM
I find it interesting that so many people in this thread have called the one friend a "likght sleeper". I don't think one has to be a light sleeper to not be able to sleep through loud (as per the OP) snoring. I am a quite heavy sleeper. I never wake up during thunder storms and I can sleep in hotels no problem. Even in the room right next to the elevator. I sleep through the TV being on, while on airplanes, you name it. And yet, this Xmas, I could not sleep through the sound of my FIL's snoring in the next room with both doors closed. This was in their house, not a hotel. If I had been sharing a hotel room with him, there's no way I could have stayed there.

Now, I think that the person still has an obligation to try ear plugs, etc. But the snorer has to try too. For example, they should go buy nose strips. They should take a decongestant. Or anything else. But they need to know to go do that. In the event that the snoring is unbearable, then it's in everyone's best interest to pay for their own rooms, regardless of what the original plan was.

And the snorer needs to keep this in mind and begin taking actions to avoid this in the future. Including warning potential roommates. And everyone needs to start packing earplugs.

Again, there's plenty that the non-sleeper should have done differently. And should have. But don't just dismiss him as a "light sleeper" and therefore solely responsible.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 03:34:24 PM
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But don't just dismiss him as a "light sleeper" and therefore solely responsible.

Which is what I said in the last 2 paragraphs of my post above.  "Light sleeper" or not, the non-snorer does bear some responsibility.



Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 18, 2013, 03:37:30 PM
I'm curious about what kind of responsibility the snorer should accept.  So far, it looks like the only one to have to do anything different, or incur any kind of additional expense is the person who is being kept awake all night by the snoring.

Does that sound fair to you?  It does not sound fair to me.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 03:46:03 PM
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So far, it looks like the only one to have to do anything different, or incur any kind of additional expense is the person who is being kept awake all night by the snoring.

Suggestions have been made in several posts now.  I'm not sure of what you're asking. ???

Not only that, but quite a few of us have stated that the snorer can't do anything unless he/she is actually told that there's a problem to begin with.  If I'm rooming with a person who lets me know 3 days into a trip that they're moving out because of my snoring, I'm going to be pretty irritated.  And, no.  I'm not going to be all that anxious to assist them with any payment for a new room.  1)  They waited 3 days to say something?  and 2)  That's their answer?  Before trying any lesser solution (including ones that I could take myself), they've jumped to the most extreme?  Go ahead and move out, I guess.  But that seems like a pretty unreasonable step to take before anything else is tried - AND before you've even alerted me to the fact that there's a problem.
 
I guess my question is to turn that back around.  If it's not fair for the snorer to not bear any responsibility for alleviating the problem, how is it fair for the non-snorer to not do so?  How is it fair to hold in anger for 3 days and then decide that the only solution is one that costs even more money and uproots everything - before doing something that's a little calmer and could make everyone have a good night's sleep?
 
I think it's possible for both sides to compromise and have neither one bear the brunt of a solution.  That's the most fair thing in my opinion.  A person who snores may not be able to help that but can do what they can to minimize the noise.  A person who doesn't snore may not be able to sleep with the additional noise, but they may be able to do what they can to not be quite as bothered by it.  Neither side is "right" or "wrong" here - it can be a simple compromise.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 18, 2013, 03:56:27 PM
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So far, it looks like the only one to have to do anything different, or incur any kind of additional expense is the person who is being kept awake all night by the snoring.

Suggestions have been made in several posts now.  I'm not sure of what you're asking. ???

Not only that, but quite a few of us have stated that the snorer can't do anything unless he/she is actually told that there's a problem to begin with.  If I'm rooming with a person who lets me know 3 days into a trip that they're moving out because of my snoring, I'm going to be pretty irritated.  And, no.  I'm not going to be all that anxious to assist them with any payment for a new room.  1)  They waited 3 days to say something?  and 2)  That's their answer?  Before trying any lesser solution (including ones that I could take myself), they've jumped to the most extreme?  Go ahead and move out, I guess.  But that seems like a pretty unreasonable step to take before anything else is tried - AND before you've even alerted me to the fact that there's a problem.
 
 

I swear I've read every post in this thread!  I just can't pull out of my brain the posts that place any of the responsibility on the snorer.  Several have stated the snorer can't help it.  What's the snorer supposed to do?  That sort of thing.  I'm just trying to save having to go back and re-read 6 pages of posts.

Is there any way the snorer can alleviate this situation?  Maybe there isn't.  Maybe the sleep deprived person just has to suck it up and get out after the first night instead of hoping things are different the 2nd night. 

I firmly believe, though, that if it comes to one of them having to leave and get their own room, they're each on their own as far as paying for their room goes.  I don't think either of them should have to pay (or help pay) for the other's room.  Sure, the snorer counted on having half the cost of his/her room covered by the roommate, but the roommate was counting on being actually able to SLEEP, and was denied that.  So both parties have to suffer equally, IMO.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 03:57:59 PM
Shoo, I think you and I may be agreeing here.  We're just saying it differently.

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I just can't pull out of my brain the posts that place any of the responsibility on the snorer.  Several have stated the snorer can't help it.  What's the snorer supposed to do?  That sort of thing.  I'm just trying to save having to go back and re-read 6 pages of posts.

And I'm recalling several posts that have put some responsibility on the snorer.
 
 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: CluelessBride on January 18, 2013, 04:18:27 PM
I suspect the overall opinions may be colored in part by the specifics of the OP.

In the specific situation of the OP I put zero responsibility on the snorer because:

1. There is no indication that non-sleeper ever told the snorer it was a problem, so snorer wasn't given an opportunity to fix it.
2. Non-sleeper did not deal with the snoring in a reasonable and efficient manner - they stewed about it for several days and then booked a more expensive room.
3. They actually had the gall to ask snorer to help cover their expensive room which they booked without first consulting snorer.

So (IMO) in this particular situation snorer owes non-sleeper nothing. And non-sleeper is on the hook for paying for half of the original room as originally agreed.

I imagine the tone of many of the responses would be different if the situation had read:

Person A and Person B go on a trip.  On night 1, Person A snores so loud that Person B can't sleep. Person B even tries using ear plugs, but it doesn't help. The next morning, Person A mentions the snoring to Person B and admits that he wasn't able to sleep at all. Person A laughs and says "haha, yeah, I always snore like a freight train - ever since I was a kid! Nothing I can do about it, but I bet you'll get used to it by the end of the trip." Person B inquires at the front desk about another room, but discovers the only one available is an expensive spa suite.

Person B wants to ask if Person A would be willing to split the cost of both rooms and alternate who sleeps in the nice suite for the remainder of the trip.  Is that okay?


Because person A knew they snored. Knew it was loud disruptive and they couldn't do anything about it. And person A addressed it like a mature adult.


And of course there are a ton of different scenarios in between. Fundamentally, I think both parties have a responsibility to be mature, understanding and as accommodating as possible. Unfortunately in the situation in the OP the non-sleeper never gave the snorer an opportunity to do that prior to asking for money to stay in an upgraded suite. In the situation I presented, the snorer was unquestionably rude to not mention the snoring before agreeing to share the room.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 04:23:12 PM
CluelessBride hit the nail squarely on the head.  I agree with her.

We're talking about 2 different scenarios here - the one in the OP and the generic one*.


 
 
 
*  And I will admit that my own responses may have combined the 2 at some points which may have muddied things a bit.
 
 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 18, 2013, 04:26:08 PM
I suspect the overall opinions may be colored in part by the specifics of the OP.

In the specific situation of the OP I put zero responsibility on the snorer because:

1. There is no indication that non-sleeper ever told the snorer it was a problem, so snorer wasn't given an opportunity to fix it.
2. Non-sleeper did not deal with the snoring in a reasonable and efficient manner - they stewed about it for several days and then booked a more expensive room.
3. They actually had the gall to ask snorer to help cover their expensive room which they booked without first consulting snorer.

So (IMO) in this particular situation snorer owes non-sleeper nothing. And non-sleeper is on the hook for paying for half of the original room as originally agreed.

I imagine the tone of many of the responses would be different if the situation had read:

Person A and Person B go on a trip.  On night 1, Person A snores so loud that Person B can't sleep. Person B even tries using ear plugs, but it doesn't help. The next morning, Person A mentions the snoring to Person B and admits that he wasn't able to sleep at all. Person A laughs and says "haha, yeah, I always snore like a freight train - ever since I was a kid! Nothing I can do about it, but I bet you'll get used to it by the end of the trip." Person B inquires at the front desk about another room, but discovers the only one available is an expensive spa suite.

Person B wants to ask if Person A would be willing to split the cost of both rooms and alternate who sleeps in the nice suite for the remainder of the trip.  Is that okay?


Because person A knew they snored. Knew it was loud disruptive and they couldn't do anything about it. And person A addressed it like a mature adult.


And of course there are a ton of different scenarios in between. Fundamentally, I think both parties have a responsibility to be mature, understanding and as accommodating as possible. Unfortunately in the situation in the OP the non-sleeper never gave the snorer an opportunity to do that prior to asking for money to stay in an upgraded suite. In the situation I presented, the snorer was unquestionably rude to not mention the snoring before agreeing to share the room.

POD to this..
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Victim Of Fate on January 18, 2013, 04:27:52 PM
Although interestingly, the OP also asks if, under the circumstances that A agrees to split the cost of both rooms, A is also entitled to request the nicer room. Now, I'm interested if anybody thinks that this would be out of line?
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 04:30:05 PM
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Although interestingly, the OP also asks if, under the circumstances that A agrees to split the cost of both rooms, A is also entitled to request the nicer room. Now, I'm interested if anybody thinks that this would be out of line?

Can they take turns?  A gets it for 2 days and B gets it for 2 days?  That would be a fair solution to that problem.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: CrochetFanatic on January 18, 2013, 06:59:05 PM
B was out of line, A was fine.

A might not have even known that he was a snorer.  It's not something that can be controlled.  I'm a snorer, and I've lost sleep because of other snorers, so I've experienced both sides.  Earplugs are one possible solution, separate rooms are another.

Where B went wrong was when he expected A to pay for his room, and if he backed out on their agreement to pay half for the original room.  If B absolutely had to sleep in a separate room, it was up to B alone to pay for it and to honor his agreement.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 18, 2013, 09:28:42 PM
  If B absolutely had to sleep in a separate room, it was up to B alone to pay for it and to honor his agreement.

I just don't understand this.  So B, who doesn't get to sleep because A snores so loudly, not only has to pay for his new room, he also has to pay for half of A's room?

A gets no penalty whatsoever?  And he basically caused the whole problem?  Not fair.  Not fair at all.  If I were B, I'd flat out refuse to pay for A's room.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Sharnita on January 18, 2013, 09:35:28 PM
I think the point is that B could sleep with the use of $5 dollar earplugs.  And if a medical condition precludes earplugs what make's B's medical condition more virtuous than the medical condition that causes the snoring? 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 18, 2013, 09:58:14 PM
I think the point is that B could sleep with the use of $5 dollar earplugs.  And if a medical condition precludes earplugs what make's B's medical condition more virtuous than the medical condition that causes the snoring? 

It's more virtuous (not sure I'd actually use that word) by the fact that it doesn't cause anyone else a problem.  His inability to wear earplugs only causes a problem for himself.  A's problem means B doesn't get any sleep. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Sharnita on January 18, 2013, 10:02:46 PM
It causes somebody else a problem if it doubles their hotel costs. They have no options at thst point and yet they seem to be blamed while B would be blameless for turning down the earplug option, the white noise option, various other lest costly options.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 18, 2013, 10:07:45 PM
It causes somebody else a problem if it doubles their hotel costs. They have no options at thst point and yet they seem to be blamed while B would be blameless for turning down the earplug option, the white noise option, various other lest costly options.

But if it doesn't work for B, it doesn't work, regardless of how much less it would cost.  The fact is, A has a snoring problem.  B wouldn't have a problem at all if it weren't for A's snoring.  A is the problem here, not B.  I just don't think B shouldn't be out double the money because A snores. 

A caused the problem.  A should AT LEAST have to pay for his own room. At the very least.  Fair is fair.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 10:15:53 PM
Shoo, I just want to make sure I'm understanding your example correctly. So, in what you've asked above, does this mean that B said something before Day 3? Did he try another option before going to the new room (whether that's earplugs, white noise, whatever for himself or something that might help A not snore as loudly)? Was a compromise attempted first or is B going to the new room solution first?

We have several versions of what's being asked here - from the actual OP's situation to some others that we've created since then that I want to get a complete picture of where you are with this.  (That's a genuine question to clarify for my own understanding - not a snarky question.)

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 18, 2013, 10:18:46 PM
I think if I help to pay for a room then I get a room key and access to the room as well.

Shoo I think you are saying what the rest of us are saying but in a different way.  If push comes to shove and B cannot sleep in the same room with A, then yes they each have to pay for their own room. However, I think that B should not request money of A to help pay for a separate room. Because in effect A would then be paying for a whole room and a half of a room which is not fair at all. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 18, 2013, 10:23:26 PM
Shoo, I just want to make sure I'm understanding your example correctly. So, in what you've asked above, does this mean that B said something before Day 3? Did he try another option before going to the new room (whether that's earplugs, white noise, whatever for himself or something that might help A not snore as loudly)? Was a compromise attempted first or is B going to the new room solution first?

We have several versions of what's being asked here - from the actual OP's situation to some others that we've created since then that I want to get a complete picture of where you are with this.  (That's a genuine question to clarify for my own understanding - not a snarky question.)



I'm not sure which scenario I'm arguing, to be honest!  :)  In both, I am quite sympathetic to B.  He didnt' sleep the first night.  Apparently, he thought his sheer exhaustion would help him sleep the 2nd night.  When that didn't work, he gave up and got another room.  Folks here are blaming him for not getting a new room sooner, or going out and buying ear plugs, or some such thing.  I don't really see anybody here blaming A, and I just find that bizarre.  A may not be able to do anything about it, but he most certainly is the cause of the problem.  Doesn't he bear any responsibility for what he has put B through?

Apparently I am the only one who thinks so.  Oh, well.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 10:27:44 PM
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Shoo I think you are saying what the rest of us are saying but in a different way

I think so, too.

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I'm not sure which scenario I'm arguing, to be honest :)

LOL! I know the feeling!

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Apparently I am the only one who thinks so.  Oh, well


You keep saying that, but that's not what I'm seeing in the thread. Most, if not almost all, have said that A isn't completely immune to all this. We're reading this thread in such totally different ways if you're seeing yourself alone in that!



Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 18, 2013, 10:29:01 PM
I think if I help to pay for a room then I get a room key and access to the room as well.

Shoo I think you are saying what the rest of us are saying but in a different way.  If push comes to shove and B cannot sleep in the same room with A, then yes they each have to pay for their own room. However, I think that B should not request money of A to help pay for a separate room. Because in effect A would then be paying for a whole room and a half of a room which is not fair at all. 

Yes, this is what I am saying too.  Whew!
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 10:32:41 PM
:)

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: sparksals on January 18, 2013, 11:06:44 PM
I'm curious about what kind of responsibility the snorer should accept.  So far, it looks like the only one to have to do anything different, or incur any kind of additional expense is the person who is being kept awake all night by the snoring.

Does that sound fair to you?  It does not sound fair to me.

POD!
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 18, 2013, 11:20:42 PM
Sparks, then I ask you the same (genuine) questions!

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: sparksals on January 18, 2013, 11:45:23 PM
Shoo, I just want to make sure I'm understanding your example correctly. So, in what you've asked above, does this mean that B said something before Day 3? Did he try another option before going to the new room (whether that's earplugs, white noise, whatever for himself or something that might help A not snore as loudly)? Was a compromise attempted first or is B going to the new room solution first?

We have several versions of what's being asked here - from the actual OP's situation to some others that we've created since then that I want to get a complete picture of where you are with this.  (That's a genuine question to clarify for my own understanding - not a snarky question.)



I'm not sure which scenario I'm arguing, to be honest!  :)  In both, I am quite sympathetic to B.  He didnt' sleep the first night.  Apparently, he thought his sheer exhaustion would help him sleep the 2nd night.  When that didn't work, he gave up and got another room.  Folks here are blaming him for not getting a new room sooner, or going out and buying ear plugs, or some such thing.  I don't really see anybody here blaming A, and I just find that bizarre.  A may not be able to do anything about it, but he most certainly is the cause of the problem.  Doesn't he bear any responsibility for what he has put B through?

Apparently I am the only one who thinks so.  Oh, well.

No, Shoo.  I am with you on all of this.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: sparksals on January 18, 2013, 11:46:10 PM
I think if I help to pay for a room then I get a room key and access to the room as well.

Shoo I think you are saying what the rest of us are saying but in a different way.  If push comes to shove and B cannot sleep in the same room with A, then yes they each have to pay for their own room. However, I think that B should not request money of A to help pay for a separate room. Because in effect A would then be paying for a whole room and a half of a room which is not fair at all. 

Yes, this is what I am saying too.  Whew!

Me too.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 19, 2013, 12:44:45 AM
I think what was happening was in the beginning there were lots of people who were blaming A for keeping poor B up all night without holding B responsible for mitigating the problem before getting the separate room. 

Eventually, someone said Hey!, A's snoring is bad, but did B actually say anything or try to work with A to come up with another solution besides shelling out for another room.  Then the thread swung around to defending A and poor B got dogpiled on. 

Then the thread came back to the middle with all of us agreeing on certain points:
To Dandy Andy's Daddy's Love point
There is a word/phrase for this which I cannot remember now, but I'm going to substitute the word accident instead.

A did not know or think that their snoring was bad enough to keep B awake for 2 nights.  B did not know that A's snoring would be bad enough to keep him/her up all night long.  Neither one are going to be entirely happy with the outcome.  Both of them would have to incur extra costs as the result of B moving out.  Both of them would have to pay for 1 entire room on their own when it is all said and done. 

It was just happenstance(sp) that the only rooms left were more expensive rooms when B decided to move, but that is often what happens at the last minute at hotels.  Also, remember B decided to move without talking to A and finding out if there was a way to reduce or negate A's snoring.  So B made an choice without considering all of the options and the consequences of that uninformed choice was to pay a higher room rate.






Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Fleur on January 19, 2013, 04:14:35 AM

While I think that B was out of line to ask A to pay for part of a new room, I think it is totally fair for A to have to pay all the cost of the original room, for the remaining time. I don't agree with the 'breaking contract' argument. Snoring can be terribly disturbing, and I think that is more on A than on B-it is on the snorer to at least try to minimize how much they inconvenience others (not fully talking about the situation in the OP, here, just more hypothetically. For the OP, it sounds as if B mishandled it by not speaking up soon enough and then pursuing a somewhat drastic and highly expensive course of action.) That said, I think that if A had even a slight idea that they snored badly, then they should have warned B or even just declined to share a room. If A knew about the snoring, it seems like kind of a bait and switch.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Sharnita on January 19, 2013, 05:51:30 AM
Shoo, I am confused. In one post you say.A caused the problem then in an another you say nobody is blaming A.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: geekette on January 19, 2013, 06:25:20 AM
Is there any reason why they couldn't just try a combination to compromise? B wears earplugs or uses a noisemaker of some sort, A sleeps on their side instead of their back (thereby reducing their volume).
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: camlan on January 19, 2013, 07:43:39 AM
Shoo, I just want to make sure I'm understanding your example correctly. So, in what you've asked above, does this mean that B said something before Day 3? Did he try another option before going to the new room (whether that's earplugs, white noise, whatever for himself or something that might help A not snore as loudly)? Was a compromise attempted first or is B going to the new room solution first?

We have several versions of what's being asked here - from the actual OP's situation to some others that we've created since then that I want to get a complete picture of where you are with this.  (That's a genuine question to clarify for my own understanding - not a snarky question.)



I'm not sure which scenario I'm arguing, to be honest!  :)  In both, I am quite sympathetic to B.  He didnt' sleep the first night.  Apparently, he thought his sheer exhaustion would help him sleep the 2nd night.  When that didn't work, he gave up and got another room.  Folks here are blaming him for not getting a new room sooner, or going out and buying ear plugs, or some such thing.  I don't really see anybody here blaming A, and I just find that bizarre.  A may not be able to do anything about it, but he most certainly is the cause of the problem.  Doesn't he bear any responsibility for what he has put B through?

Apparently I am the only one who thinks so.  Oh, well.

A is indeed responsible for the problem. But the thing about snoring is that the snorer doesn't know they are snoring. It is entirely possible that A has no idea he/she snores.

So while that doesn't let A off scot-free, it does mean that for A, B's action in taking another, expensive room might have come out of the blue.

So while A has bears the responsibility for the problem, I don't see A as carrying any blame.

Now, if A had been alerted to the problem and then refused to even attempt to do anything about it, A would indeed be blamed for it. But A didn't know, and therefore couldn't try medications or different sleeping positions, or offer to get a separate room, or buy B earplugs or any other possible remedy.

I guess it don't think it is fair to blame someone for a problem they don't know they are causing.

Now, if A knew before the trip that he/she snores like a freight train all night, every night, then I'd put the blame squarely on A. We just don't know that detail.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: CrochetFanatic on January 19, 2013, 08:51:41 AM
Sorry, Shoo.  I don't agree.  A person doesn't choose to snore.  It's not A's fault that he has this problem, and it's embarrassing (not to mention unfair) to be punished for something that can't be controlled.  So, a person should be out the money to cover the full cost of a room because their roommate didn't want to compromise?  What if they're financially strapped, and had to save for the trip and budget carefully?  If that proved to be the case, their trip is now ruined because B has to have his way. 

Maybe I worded that badly, but that's what it sounds like to me, and I'm siding with A on this one.  B chose to move to another room, and if I'm reading right, he chose not to use earplugs or try any other solutions.  It sounds like he put the onus completely on A to fix the situation, and I don't think that's right.

Let me just reiterate that I've spent sleepless nights because the person I was rooming with was a snorer/teeth grinder/sleep-talker.  So, I'm not completely unsympathetic.  I just think that B handled it very badly.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 19, 2013, 09:40:02 AM
I just think that B handled it very badly.

I think we can all agree on this point.   :)

If B spoke to A the first morning after the first sleepless night and asked what they could try, and they both tried all the options they could and B still couldn't sleep, then I would feel sympathy for B and as A, would agree to pay the whole cost for the original room.  The fact that the only other available room is more expensive is not my problem.  B could have tried other nearby hotels, too.

But if B never talked to A and went straight to moving rooms then demanded that I pay for half the new room?  Yeah, not going to happen.  I'd be seriously annoyed that I was now going to have to pay for the original room myself but I'd do it.

The only way I would blame A in this scenario is that if A knew s/he snored and didn't tell B ahead of time so B could be prepared.

(As a snorer, I could take a decongestant but I wouldn't be able to use the breathing strips - I'm allergic to adhesives.)
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 19, 2013, 09:42:46 AM
Is there any reason why they couldn't just try a combination to compromise? B wears earplugs or uses a noisemaker of some sort, A sleeps on their side instead of their back (thereby reducing their volume).

I've suggested a compromise a couple of times now as well. It seems like the fairest solution of all for both to me.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Bramble on January 19, 2013, 11:06:18 AM
Is there any reason why they couldn't just try a combination to compromise? B wears earplugs or uses a noisemaker of some sort, A sleeps on their side instead of their back (thereby reducing their volume).

Just using myself as an example, people don't necessarily make a conscious choice about how they sleep.  I know, because I've tried to change, that I can generally only fall asleep in one position, but that I seem to switch to different positions as I sleep.  So a suggestion that A sleep on their side may stop the snoring, but only because A lies there all night not sleeping.  Which just seems to shift the problem to someone else, not solving it.

I'm sympathetic to B, because I know I wouldn't be able to sleep in that situation.  However if B can't find some solution to block out the noise, it seems that A and B are simply just incompatible roommates.  A is likely not going to be able to solve their snoring problem during a quick trip.  Getting another room in that situation is an option, but if B doesn't want to simply absorb the extra cost they should discuss it with A before actually booking the other room.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Sharnita on January 19, 2013, 11:31:36 AM
Also note that in the situation described the room B has is a suite so it it more than the total cost of the original room. A's cost have already doubled and then B wants A to pay more on top - but B never discussed any problems or any options outside of a whole othe and more expensivw room. That is completely unreasonable.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Shoo on January 19, 2013, 11:33:36 AM
Shoo, I am confused. In one post you say.A caused the problem then in an another you say nobody is blaming A.

What I meant was that nobody besides me (it felt like, but may not have actually been the case) was blaming A.  It seemed to me that everybody was saying the situation was all B's fault because he didn't take action soon enough, he didn't buy ear plugs, etc. 
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: CluelessBride on January 19, 2013, 12:19:42 PM
Shoo, I am confused. In one post you say.A caused the problem then in an another you say nobody is blaming A.

What I meant was that nobody besides me (it felt like, but may not have actually been the case) was blaming A.  It seemed to me that everybody was saying the situation was all B's fault because he didn't take action soon enough, he didn't buy ear plugs, etc.

In this particular case I think it *is* B's fault - because he never said that there was a problem. 

It's like if you are at a restaurant and they deliver you the wrong appetizer accidentally but eat it without saying anything. Eat your meal without saying anything. Order and eat dessert without saying anything. But all the while it has been bothering you that you were delivered the wrong appetizer so when the bill comes you demand the restaurant comp the whole thing. When if you had just said "Excuse me, but I seem to have been given the wrong appetizer" at the time it had been delivered the whole thing could have been fixed easily and quickly.

It's not even a case of person B not wanting to wake person A. They waited several days to address the problem and then went straight to the most extreme solution. So while the snoring was A's fault, the situation (suddenly needing to pay for 2 rooms, one of which was considerably more expensive) was actually entirely B's fault. It is quite possible that had B said "You are snoring", A would have said "Oh, sorry, I didn't realize it, I'll take some decongestants" and everything would have been fixed. It's also possible that nothing could have fixed the snoring and the only solution would be a second room. But that type of solution (one that involves significant financial output by both parties) should be come to together. You (general) don't get to make a unilateral decision on something and then bill another person for it.

However, in the *general* case of snoring I agree that A carries just as much if not more responsibility for addressing the problem and potentially paying for the room. The caveat being A needs to be told they are snoring!
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Hunter-Gatherer on January 19, 2013, 01:34:42 PM
So, I'm officially a person who's not sure how much he snores.

I used to be an absolutely terrible snorer.  My ex-wife had to wear ear-plugs, and after sharing a hotel room with my parents once, they swore they'd never do it again because of my snoring.  It was apparently atrocious.

Then, in November, I had my upper wisdom teeth removed.  I was shocked to find that my sinuses were suddenly clearer than they'd been in at least a decade, maybe two.  I also found that I was waking up more refreshed after getting the same amount of sleep.  Suddenly 6 or 7 hours of sleep felt like 8 or 9 used to.  Given those two things, I'm pretty much certain that I'm at least snoring less than I used to, but since I never used to hear it even at its worst, and I sleep alone now, I have no idea what my current level of snoring is.  It could be nearly as bad as it was, or it could be relatively minor and occasional.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: Sharnita on January 19, 2013, 02:49:42 PM
It also seems kind of telling that while the only solution B seemed to have considedered was a suite but it never dawned on B that if A was the one paying a suite rate maybe A should be the one given the option of being the one to enjoy the comforts of said suite.
Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: DottyG on January 19, 2013, 04:15:03 PM
CluelessBride, there were a couple of times when reading your post that I thought I might have written it. It was so exactly what I wanted to say.

Title: Re: Shared Room and Snoring
Post by: zyrs on January 20, 2013, 12:29:50 AM
Shoo, I am confused. In one post you say.A caused the problem then in an another you say nobody is blaming A.

What I meant was that nobody besides me (it felt like, but may not have actually been the case) was blaming A.  It seemed to me that everybody was saying the situation was all B's fault because he didn't take action soon enough, he didn't buy ear plugs, etc.

In this particular case I think it *is* B's fault - because he never said that there was a problem. 

It's like if you are at a restaurant and they deliver you the wrong appetizer accidentally but eat it without saying anything. Eat your meal without saying anything. Order and eat dessert without saying anything. But all the while it has been bothering you that you were delivered the wrong appetizer so when the bill comes you demand the restaurant comp the whole thing. When if you had just said "Excuse me, but I seem to have been given the wrong appetizer" at the time it had been delivered the whole thing could have been fixed easily and quickly.

It's not even a case of person B not wanting to wake person A. They waited several days to address the problem and then went straight to the most extreme solution. So while the snoring was A's fault, the situation (suddenly needing to pay for 2 rooms, one of which was considerably more expensive) was actually entirely B's fault. It is quite possible that had B said "You are snoring", A would have said "Oh, sorry, I didn't realize it, I'll take some decongestants" and everything would have been fixed. It's also possible that nothing could have fixed the snoring and the only solution would be a second room. But that type of solution (one that involves significant financial output by both parties) should be come to together. You (general) don't get to make a unilateral decision on something and then bill another person for it.

However, in the *general* case of snoring I agree that A carries just as much if not more responsibility for addressing the problem and potentially paying for the room. The caveat being A needs to be told they are snoring!

Yes!  If A knew they snored maybe they would get some breathe-right strips while B got some earplugs and both of them would wake refreshed the next morning for very little added expense.  But A was never told, how would they know?