Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: gellchom on January 19, 2013, 12:34:08 PM

Title: "I'm good" again
Post by: gellchom on January 19, 2013, 12:34:08 PM
Does anyone else dislike the use of "I'm good" when declining an offer of something?  As in:

"Would you like some more coffee?"
"I'm good."

I don't understand why people think that "I'm good" is a polite substitute for "No, thank you" or "No, thanks."  Sometimes it even sounds less like a gracious decline than a curt rebuff.

(I resist the temptation to say, "I'm glad to hear it.  And would you like more coffee?")

I get that it communicates that they don't want the coffee.  But it does not communicate any acknowledgment that the person offered them something, just an announcement of their own satisfaction, coffee-wise.   :)  Okay, that's obviously not the problem!  What's actually wrong is that they aren't expressing any gratitude for the offer.  Which is what polite people do when either accepting or declining something.

It was so easy to teach our kids this.  We just treated it like that was the words you use from the time they were tiny.  "Thusnelda, would you like an apple?  Yesplease or nothankyou?"

In my opinion, "I'm good" is just as rude as plain "No." "I'm good, thanks" is okay.

I wonder how omitting the thanks got started, and why people who would never just say "no" without "thanks" think "I'm good" without "thanks" is okay?

(ETA bolding to clarify the point of the objection.)
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Surianne on January 19, 2013, 01:03:27 PM
I think the thanks is usually implied -- at least it is when I've said, it, and from the tone of voice that seems to be how other people intend it.  It's so common I've never thought of it as being rude, and I've never seen anyone react to it as if it were rude. 

 

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Tabby Uprising on January 19, 2013, 01:17:13 PM
I tend to prioritize the spirit in which something was said rather than the precise phrasing.  I also really enjoy having a variety of ways to express something ranging from casual to formal.  The way someone speaks gives me some insight into their personality, it can be an indicator of how comfortable they feel with me and it can also be a great way to pick up some new phrases.  I tend to have a high tolerance for language and how people express themselves.

Reading e-hell, I've seen a number of threads about how people interpret different phrases like "no problem", "ma'am", "you guys", "have a good one" etc. and I've seen that each one can be offensive to someone.  It makes for interesting reading, but it can give me the sense - sometimes - that even with the best of intentions and a seemingly innocuous phrase you can offend (or just irritate the tar out of) someone.  It's a bit too much like having my language micromanaged and I far prefer my language to be free range  ;D  Within reason, of course!
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 19, 2013, 01:27:25 PM
Well, for starters, I've often heard "No thanks; I'm good."  ;D

But anyway, this is generally used, in my experience, in really informal situations where you know the person really well. I think it could start to feel stilted if you only used the most formal phrasing of anything with, say, your husband or your BFF.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: LazyDaisy on January 19, 2013, 01:32:54 PM
Generally I don't really see a difference between the long-hand and short-hand versions so it doesn't bother me. If it bothers you not to receive a specifically worded response, I would suggest stop offering. You can't demand gratitude. In some instances, I would not feel I owed a thank you. Some offers can also been seen as PA slights, "Do you want to borrow a comb? Would you like a breath mint? Shall I wash some dishes for you?..."
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: JenJay on January 19, 2013, 01:40:39 PM
My 12yo DD says this all the time. I always respond "Does that mean 'yes, please' or 'no thanks'?"  ;D
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: perpetua on January 19, 2013, 01:45:40 PM
Whenever anyone says 'I'm good' I want to add '...at what?' As an expression it makes no sense.

'I'm fine (thanks)' works better and conveys the correct meaning although I agree that the thanks is often implied.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: JenJay on January 19, 2013, 01:53:03 PM
Whenever anyone says 'I'm good' I want to add '...at what?' As an expression it makes no sense.

'I'm fine (thanks)' works better and conveys the correct meaning although I agree that the thanks is often implied.

That reminded me, occasionally when DD says it I'll have a bit of fun with her and say "Sometimes, but other times you're pretty bad. Anyway, did you want *thing*?"  :P
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: helixa on January 19, 2013, 03:09:04 PM
I've tended to use it when declining wine as some people are more insistent on offering it, but I'd usually say "I'm good thanks" with a hand over the glass.

I don't see it as impolite in general though the tone can make a difference.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: gellchom on January 19, 2013, 03:50:26 PM
I've tended to use it when declining wine as some people are more insistent on offering it, but I'd usually say "I'm good thanks" with a hand over the glass.

I don't see it as impolite in general though the tone can make a difference.

As I said in the OP, "I'm good, thanks" is fine.  It's the omission of the "thanks" that I think sounds a bit less than gracious.  The same people wouldn't just say "no," they'd say, "no, thanks."

I honestly don't understand how "thank you" is implied with "I'm good," when it is not with "no."
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Thipu1 on January 19, 2013, 03:51:56 PM
So long as you add 'Thanks, but' or, 'No thanks', I think 'I'm good' is just fine. 
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 19, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
I view this one as a trendy expression that might irk you (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=124037.0) rather than an actual rudeness. I think it's just shorthand and has an implied "thank you" in it.

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Roe on January 19, 2013, 04:26:44 PM
Pod DottyG.

Tone has a lot to do with it but if "I'm good" can no longer be accepted as a response....oy!  I think sometimes these are more pet peeves than actual rudeness.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: SamiHami on January 19, 2013, 04:27:44 PM
I agree with OP. "I'm good" instead of "No thank you" ranks right up there with "No problem" as a response to "Thanks." (I never thought it was a problem, I was just thanking you. How about "You're welcome" instead?)
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 19, 2013, 05:04:07 PM
I don't really mind "no problem" either. It's not that major of a deal for me.

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: gellchom on January 19, 2013, 05:11:47 PM
I view this one as a trendy expression that might irk you (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=124037.0) rather than an actual rudeness. I think it's just shorthand and has an implied "thank you" in it.


I see I still haven't been clear.  Sorry.  It's not the trendiness of "I'm good" or even saying it instead of "no" that is the issue.  It's omitting "thanks" or "thank you."

I believe that etiquette requires "no, thanks," not just "no."  I believe no here one would be arguing about that.

So if you prefer "I'm good" to "no," fine, but why shouldn't you still add "thanks"?
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Judah on January 19, 2013, 05:17:05 PM
I agree with OP. "I'm good" instead of "No thank you" ranks right up there with "No problem" as a response to "Thanks." (I never thought it was a problem, I was just thanking you. How about "You're welcome" instead?)

Sometime around day four of our stay in Ireland I noticed that not one single person had said "You're welcome" in response to my "thank you". We started listening for it and nope, not once in two weeks did I hear "you're welcome". They had about twenty different ways of not saying it and it ended up being pretty funny.

I don't have a problem with "I'm good". The right tone implies the "thank you".
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 19, 2013, 05:34:47 PM
 No no no! You're clear! :)

But, gellchom, the "thanks" is (to me) so implied in it that I'm not sure it even strikes me that it's missing more often than not.

"Oh no! I'm fine!" said with a smile isn't rude when I hear it. It doesn't need the "thank you" to make it not rude. It's just as polite as the longer version.

I get your question (really I do!), but it doesn't sound rude to me.

Understand that, like a previous poster said, tone is key. Even "no thank you" can be rude in the wrong tone.

Edited to fix your name

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: oogyda on January 19, 2013, 06:21:20 PM
The specific words, "Thank you" aren't as important to me as tone and attitude.  I always prefer a friendly or even neutral "No." to a snarkey or insincere yes, no, I'm good/fine, etc. Followed by a thank you.

Saying thank you as preferred by the OP is implying "Thank you for offering", and there are times that simply isn't appropriate.

Edited to finish a sentence.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: yokozbornak on January 19, 2013, 06:32:38 PM
It doesn't bother me at all especially if said in a friendly, polite tone.   It just doesn't seem like anything to get worked up about.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 19, 2013, 06:33:19 PM
The specific words, "Thank you" aren't as important to me as tone and attitude.  I always prefer a friendly or even neutral "No." to a snarkey or insincere yes, no, I'm good/fine, etc.

Agreed. We teach exact scripts for please/thank you/you're welcome to children because it's easier to impress a rule upon them when they're not old enough to understand the underlying "theory," if you will. But as adults there are a lot of ways we can phrase things, and if we sound pleasant and gracious, they can be polite phrases even if they're not the script. Kind of like how it's actually possible to say "May I have a ____" without the please and still be polite. Or I have one friend who always thanks me in German and I you're-welcome him in Spanish. Language is quirky. Tone is huge.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: jpcher on January 19, 2013, 06:35:17 PM
I've been known to say "I'm good" with no "thank-you's" after repetitive offers of something.

Host: Would you like some more coffee?

Me: No, thank you.

Host: Are you sure?

Me: Yes. I'm good.


I don't think that another "thank you" is necessary.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Allyson on January 19, 2013, 07:13:41 PM
It's lack of clarity aggravates me when used outside of specific situations. Refusing a top-up on a glass, 'I'm good' makes perfect sense.  But the expression and use is fairly new (at least to me) so when people used it to, say, tell me they didn't want anything else with their order at work, it confused me at first. It's a slangy expression that I think isn't immediately obvious. I also hear it's cousin 'I'm OK'. I have also heard it spread to other uses of 'no', for example 'do you want to come over tomorrow and watch a movie' 'I'm good'.

I don't want it to become a shorthand for any sort of refusal...I'm only imagining. 'Will you marry me?' 'I'm good, thanks!'
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 19, 2013, 07:17:58 PM
It's lack of clarity aggravates me when used outside of specific situations. Refusing a top-up on a glass, 'I'm good' makes perfect sense.  But the expression and use is fairly new (at least to me) so when people used it to, say, tell me they didn't want anything else with their order at work, it confused me at first. It's a slangy expression that I think isn't immediately obvious. I also hear it's cousin 'I'm OK'. I have also heard it spread to other uses of 'no', for example 'do you want to come over tomorrow and watch a movie' 'I'm good'.

OK, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. It really mostly makes sense for being offered more food or drink, etc.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 19, 2013, 07:29:18 PM
Allyson, I've never heard it used in the way you're describing. If that were the case, is agree that it'd be confusing.

However, the way it is being used (in my experience) - usually in terms of food or drink - it's not that ambiguous or confusing. It makes sense.

It's also not really something new in my neck of the woods. It's a term that's been around so long that I don't think people really think much about it.


Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Surianne on January 19, 2013, 07:58:50 PM
I don't really mind "no problem" either. It's not that major of a deal for me.

Yeah, I remember seeing a debate on ehell about that before too that I never understood.  I use "no problem" all the time, and it really just means that -- "It was no problem helping you."  I have no idea why that's less polite than "You're welcome."

Language changes and new shorthands get formed all the time.  I don't think there's much point in getting uptight and declaring these phrases to be rude.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: cross_patch on January 19, 2013, 08:03:46 PM
I agree with OP. "I'm good" instead of "No thank you" ranks right up there with "No problem" as a response to "Thanks." (I never thought it was a problem, I was just thanking you. How about "You're welcome" instead?)

Sometime around day four of our stay in Ireland I noticed that not one single person had said "You're welcome" in response to my "thank you". We started listening for it and nope, not once in two weeks did I hear "you're welcome". They had about twenty different ways of not saying it and it ended up being pretty funny.

I don't have a problem with "I'm good". The right tone implies the "thank you".

Actually, Irish people don't say you're welcome as a general rule. We generally say "no bother" which is not NOT saying you're welcome, it's just an equivalent. It's no less polite, just a regional difference.  Is that what you meant?
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 19, 2013, 08:16:49 PM
I agree with OP. "I'm good" instead of "No thank you" ranks right up there with "No problem" as a response to "Thanks." (I never thought it was a problem, I was just thanking you. How about "You're welcome" instead?)

Sometime around day four of our stay in Ireland I noticed that not one single person had said "You're welcome" in response to my "thank you". We started listening for it and nope, not once in two weeks did I hear "you're welcome". They had about twenty different ways of not saying it and it ended up being pretty funny.

I don't have a problem with "I'm good". The right tone implies the "thank you".

Actually, Irish people don't say you're welcome as a general rule. We generally say "no bother" which is not NOT saying you're welcome, it's just an equivalent. It's no less polite, just a regional difference.  Is that what you meant?

This. There's no special magic to the words "you're welcome"--different countries and different cultures have all sorts of polite ways of acknowledging a thank-you.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Judah on January 19, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
Cross_patch, I didn't think it wasn't polite, just amusing. The reponse wasn't always "no bother", there was a wide variety of responses. And when I mentioned it to my Irish FIL, who was travelling with us, he said he hadn't noticed.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: cross_patch on January 19, 2013, 08:39:45 PM
I agree with OP. "I'm good" instead of "No thank you" ranks right up there with "No problem" as a response to "Thanks." (I never thought it was a problem, I was just thanking you. How about "You're welcome" instead?)

Sometime around day four of our stay in Ireland I noticed that not one single person had said "You're welcome" in response to my "thank you". We started listening for it and nope, not once in two weeks did I hear "you're welcome". They had about twenty different ways of not saying it and it ended up being pretty funny.

I don't have a problem with "I'm good". The right tone implies the "thank you".

Actually, Irish people don't say you're welcome as a general rule. We generally say "no bother" which is not NOT saying you're welcome, it's just an equivalent. It's no less polite, just a regional difference.  Is that what you meant?

This. There's no special magic to the words "you're welcome"--different countries and different cultures have all sorts of polite ways of acknowledging a thank-you.

Thanks yvaine, that's it exactly. I think it was the amusing part that threw me off. I imagine your FIL wouldn't notice, because to him people were answering it in a normal manner.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 19, 2013, 09:05:47 PM
I think it's part of a cultural/societal change. The words "thank you" might be absent but, they're implied.

I liken it to the phrase, "have a good one" that seems to be replacing "have a good day/night".

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Allyson on January 19, 2013, 09:16:32 PM
Yeah, I definitely don't think it's rude. It's not a phrase that I especially like, but now that I've sort of 'absorbed' it and its meaning it's not a big deal. Just one of those things that confused literal-minded me when I first started hearing it! :)
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Roe on January 19, 2013, 11:09:51 PM
No no no! You're clear! :)

But, gellchom, the "thanks" is (to me) so implied in it that I'm not sure it even strikes me that it's missing more often than not.

"Oh no! I'm fine!" said with a smile isn't rude when I hear it. It doesn't need the "thank you" to make it not rude. It's just as polite as the longer version.

I get your question (really I do!), but it doesn't sound rude to me.

Understand that, like a previous poster said, tone is key. Even "no thank you" can be rude in the wrong tone.

Edited to fix your name

Pod, pod, pod. This is exactly how I feel.  Thanks Dotty!
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Aeris on January 19, 2013, 11:24:59 PM
Despite what we teach children, there is in fact nothing magical about the words 'please', 'thank you', and 'you're welcome'. What's important is that the concepts behind those words get communicated.

Insisting on the specific words regardless of actual gratitude communicated would be just as misguided as insisting that one must be thanked on personal stationary, hand written and addressed, and that thanks offered through any other medium are insufficient.

In other words, it would be nitpicky and graceless.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: CakeEater on January 20, 2013, 04:16:51 AM
What does 'you're welcome' mean as a response to thank-you anyway? Welcome to what? My assistance? My belongings that I have shared with you?

Then doesn't '(It's) No problem (sharing my belongings/giving my assistance)' mean the same thing?

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 20, 2013, 07:07:54 AM
What does 'you're welcome' mean as a response to thank-you anyway? Welcome to what? My assistance? My belongings that I have shared with you?

Then doesn't '(It's) No problem (sharing my belongings/giving my assistance)' mean the same thing?

Pretty much, yeah. Most you're-welcome type expressions seem to include some kind of minimizing of whatever favor you just did for the person who thanked you, probably to put the person at ease over whether they put you out. They say thank you and then you tell them it wasn't a big deal. You're welcome, no problem, de nada, no bother, aw shucks tweren't nothin'!  :)

Edited to add: I think that we in the US have just said "you're welcome" so many times, by rote and automatically, that we don't even think about what it actually means anymore and don't realize it basically means the same as these other phrases.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Thipu1 on January 20, 2013, 09:46:21 AM
That's true, Yvaine. 

Most of us have been brought up so that 'Please', 'Thank You' and 'You're Welcome' are so engrained that we just do it automatically. 

It's like the ritual word or phrase when someone sneezes. 
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 20, 2013, 01:41:33 PM
Quote
Most of us have been brought up so that 'Please', 'Thank You' and 'You're Welcome' are so engrained that we just do it automatically.

"What's the 'magic word', Little Johnny?" :)

We're taught that those words are, somehow, special ones that must be said. But we're taught that because, as another poster mentioned, kids can't distinguish nuances if other things that also work. We keep it simple for them while they're still learning.

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: CakeEater on January 20, 2013, 03:00:03 PM
What does 'you're welcome' mean as a response to thank-you anyway? Welcome to what? My assistance? My belongings that I have shared with you?

Then doesn't '(It's) No problem (sharing my belongings/giving my assistance)' mean the same thing?

Pretty much, yeah. Most you're-welcome type expressions seem to include some kind of minimizing of whatever favor you just did for the person who thanked you, probably to put the person at ease over whether they put you out. They say thank you and then you tell them it wasn't a big deal. You're welcome, no problem, de nada, no bother, aw shucks tweren't nothin'!  :)

Edited to add: I think that we in the US have just said "you're welcome" so many times, by rote and automatically, that we don't even think about what it actually means anymore and don't realize it basically means the same as these other phrases.

That's what I meant. I don't think no problem is an inferior thing to say, because they mean the same thing. In fact, here (in Australia) you're pretty unlikely to hear 'you're welcome'. Far more common to hear 'no problem' or 'no worries', 'that's OK' or even 'no dramas'.

My niece was born in country A, moved to Australia and learned English, then moved to country C and is learning that language, but her nanny there is from country D. Nanny has been teaching her to say 'you're welcome', and she wants us to say it when they visit here, but it feels very formal to us.

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: rigs32 on January 20, 2013, 03:41:05 PM


I believe that etiquette requires "no, thanks," not just "no."  I believe no here one would be arguing about that.


Clearly we are arguing about it.  If a waitress offers me more water, my response is most likely to be " no thanks".  But if I'm on a bus and someone offers me a seat, I may just say "no".  I am not required to reply to all inquires with a full "no thank you". 

This especially occurs in situations at work where I need to exert my authority even though I am a youngish looking female.  Responding with just a "no" conveys more assertiveness, but I do not agree that it automatically makes me rude.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: perpetua on January 20, 2013, 03:48:39 PM


I believe that etiquette requires "no, thanks," not just "no."  I believe no here one would be arguing about that.


Clearly we are arguing about it.  If a waitress offers me more water, my response is most likely to be " no thanks".  But if I'm on a bus and someone offers me a seat, I may just say "no".  I am not required to reply to all inquires with a full "no thank you". 

I think you are. Isn't 'no thanks' a contraction of 'no, but thank you for offering' ? That's how I've always seen it.

Surely it's rude not to acknowledge someone's offer, especially in the case of the seat on the bus scenario, when someone is going out of their way to do something kind at their own expense?

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 20, 2013, 03:58:05 PM


I believe that etiquette requires "no, thanks," not just "no."  I believe no here one would be arguing about that.


Clearly we are arguing about it.  If a waitress offers me more water, my response is most likely to be " no thanks".  But if I'm on a bus and someone offers me a seat, I may just say "no".  I am not required to reply to all inquires with a full "no thank you". 

I think you are. Isn't 'no thanks' a contraction of 'no, but thank you for offering' ? That's how I've always seen it.

Surely it's rude not to acknowledge someone's offer, especially in the case of the seat on the bus scenario, when someone is going out of their way to do something kind at their own expense?

I think thanks is always required to follow a "no" when something is offered, be it a drink, seat, or free trip to LaLa-Land.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 20, 2013, 04:46:10 PM
Not necessarily. Because "no, I'm fine!" is, as we've discussed above, ok as well - even without a "thanks" in there.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 20, 2013, 04:52:19 PM
Not necessarily. Because "no, I'm fine!" is, as we've discussed above, ok as well - even without a "thanks" in there.

Without referencing what I was quoting, you're right.  However, I was responding to the idea that no form of thanks had to follow a "no" and one was not rude to not offer a thanks (in any form) when something was offered (the bus seat).  I think it is rude to decline something and not say any form of thanks thereafter.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 20, 2013, 04:58:40 PM
Sorry, I think I was unclear on what you meant.

I'm still not completely sure I'm clear, actually. But I didn't mean to take your words out of context.

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 21, 2013, 05:59:52 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: squeakers on January 21, 2013, 06:54:35 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 21, 2013, 07:01:00 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 21, 2013, 09:51:32 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
I disagree because the person in the mall or store is not offering it out of kindness they are offering it because they want to make a sell.  But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 

I'm also ok with the phrase "I'm good" but I find I only use it after I've been offered the same thing before and have already said thank you and usually in informal settings.  Like the example of being offered another glass of wine or another cup of coffee.  The Thanks is implied and was already offered with the first, second, and third glass/cup offered.

I do however dislike the phrase in response to "How are you today?" 
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 21, 2013, 09:56:26 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
I disagree because the person in the mall or store is not offering it out of kindness they are offering it because they want to make a sell.  But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 

I'm also ok with the phrase "I'm good" but I find I only use it after I've been offered the same thing before and have already said thank you and usually in informal settings.  Like the example of being offered another glass of wine or another cup of coffee.  The Thanks is implied and was already offered with the first, second, and third glass/cup offered.

I do however dislike the phrase in response to "How are you today?"

So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 21, 2013, 09:58:01 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
I disagree because the person in the mall or store is not offering it out of kindness they are offering it because they want to make a sell.  But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 

I agree on both counts--I don't think it's necessary when it's an unsolicited sales pitch, and I instinctively do it anyway.  ;D Though I must admit that the more times the sea salt people ask me, the less thank-youish I feel toward them!
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 21, 2013, 09:59:59 AM
So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?

I don't see it as kindness if it's unsolicited. I mean, yeah, if I voluntarily go to a restaurant and have a server, I should say thank you to him/her. But if someone randomly waylays me while I'm trying to get from point A to point B, I don't think it's out of kindness. I actually think it's a rude policy. Double that if they try to put the product (spray perfume, lotion squirt, etc.) on you without even getting your permission first.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 21, 2013, 10:02:03 AM
So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?

I don't see it as kindness if it's unsolicited. I mean, yeah, if I voluntarily go to a restaurant and have a server, I should say thank you to him/her. But if someone randomly waylays me while I'm trying to get from point A to point B, I don't think it's out of kindness. I actually think it's a rude policy. Double that if they try to put the product (spray perfume, lotion squirt, etc.) on you without even getting your permission first.

I do not condone putting the product on your without your permission.  In fact, even the thought is making me have a very angry reaction to someone doing that.

I do see the unsolicited as coming from a place of kindness, not necessarily a kindness itself.  I see, however, that you think that is a rude policy overall and I do not.  That could be the cause of us seeing those differently.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 21, 2013, 10:03:49 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
I disagree because the person in the mall or store is not offering it out of kindness they are offering it because they want to make a sell.  But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 

I'm also ok with the phrase "I'm good" but I find I only use it after I've been offered the same thing before and have already said thank you and usually in informal settings.  Like the example of being offered another glass of wine or another cup of coffee.  The Thanks is implied and was already offered with the first, second, and third glass/cup offered.

I do however dislike the phrase in response to "How are you today?"

So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?
Because ignoring someone who is obviously speaking directly to you feels extremely rude to me and slightly dehumanzing.

And I didn't say the person offering me a sprtiz of perfume was doing it out of maliciousness. You said it was being offered out of an act of kindness.  Your implication was that any act done out of kindness required a thank you after the no.  I disagreed that their offer was done out of kindness.   
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 21, 2013, 10:07:58 AM
So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?

I don't see it as kindness if it's unsolicited. I mean, yeah, if I voluntarily go to a restaurant and have a server, I should say thank you to him/her. But if someone randomly waylays me while I'm trying to get from point A to point B, I don't think it's out of kindness. I actually think it's a rude policy. Double that if they try to put the product (spray perfume, lotion squirt, etc.) on you without even getting your permission first.

I do not condone putting the product on your without your permission.  In fact, even the thought is making me have a very angry reaction to someone doing that.

I do see the unsolicited as coming from a place of kindness, not necessarily a kindness itself.  I see, however, that you think that is a rude policy overall and I do not.  That could be the cause of us seeing those differently.

I guess what isn't computing in my head is "place of kindness" vs. "kindness."  How do they differ?

When I talk about the rude salespeople, I think you may be picturing just a normal "Can I help you find anything" as you walk around a store. Around here we have these lotion kiosk people who ask repeatedly even after getting a no, and will try to actually squirt it on you if you get too close. I think it's inherently rude. I think the reason I still say "no thanks" most of the time is because I know the low-wage employee at the kiosk didn't set the policy and the bulk of the blame is further up the ladder, but I don't see kindness in it at all.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 21, 2013, 10:15:34 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
I disagree because the person in the mall or store is not offering it out of kindness they are offering it because they want to make a sell.  But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 

I'm also ok with the phrase "I'm good" but I find I only use it after I've been offered the same thing before and have already said thank you and usually in informal settings.  Like the example of being offered another glass of wine or another cup of coffee.  The Thanks is implied and was already offered with the first, second, and third glass/cup offered.

I do however dislike the phrase in response to "How are you today?"

So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?
Because ignoring someone who is obviously speaking directly to you feels extremely rude to me and slightly dehumanzing.

And I didn't say the person offering me a sprtiz of perfume was doing it out of maliciousness. You said it was being offered out of an act of kindness.  Your implication was that any act done out of kindness required a thank you after the no.  I disagreed that their offer was done out of kindness.

If you don't make eye contact, I don't see the problem; how do you know they aren't speaking to someone else?  If you make eye contact then look away and don't say anything, then I agree, that can be rude.  You also said "if you acknowledge them at all"...isn't that the same as not saying anything at all like I suggested?

I didn't say anyone said that someone offering perfume was doing so out of maliciousness.  I was simply pointing out that the smack upside the head was malicious* and that I did not think the offer of perfume was along the same lines, thus it is not malicious.


* I thought the "You want some of me?" was asking for a fight, not a "date".  I missed the "Hey, baby!!" part.  I thought 1 and 3 of the list were malicious while 2 was not.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 21, 2013, 10:18:30 AM
If you don't make eye contact, I don't see the problem; how do you know they aren't speaking to someone else?  If you make eye contact then look away and don't say anything, then I agree, that can be rude.  You also said "if you acknowledge them at all"...isn't that the same as not saying anything at all like I suggested?

I didn't say anyone said that someone offering perfume was doing so out of maliciousness.  I was simply pointing out that the smack upside the head was malicious* and that I did not think the offer of perfume was along the same lines, thus it is not malicious.


* I thought the "You want some of me?" was asking for a fight, not a "date".  I missed the "Hey, baby!!" part.  I thought 1 and 3 of the list were malicious while 2 was not.

I'm going to agree that plausible-deniability-just-didn't-notice is also not rude. If you really don't make eye contact and seem absorbed in your own conversation or thoughts, I think that's fine.

As for "You want some of me?", I think street harassment is about as malicious as a challenge to a fight. These creeps aren't really doing it out of admiration for anyone's beauty. They're doing it because they're creeps and they like to harass women.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 21, 2013, 10:19:05 AM
So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?

I don't see it as kindness if it's unsolicited. I mean, yeah, if I voluntarily go to a restaurant and have a server, I should say thank you to him/her. But if someone randomly waylays me while I'm trying to get from point A to point B, I don't think it's out of kindness. I actually think it's a rude policy. Double that if they try to put the product (spray perfume, lotion squirt, etc.) on you without even getting your permission first.

I do not condone putting the product on your without your permission.  In fact, even the thought is making me have a very angry reaction to someone doing that.

I do see the unsolicited as coming from a place of kindness, not necessarily a kindness itself.  I see, however, that you think that is a rude policy overall and I do not.  That could be the cause of us seeing those differently.

I guess what isn't computing in my head is "place of kindness" vs. "kindness."  How do they differ?

When I talk about the rude salespeople, I think you may be picturing just a normal "Can I help you find anything" as you walk around a store. Around here we have these lotion kiosk people who ask repeatedly even after getting a no, and will try to actually squirt it on you if you get too close. I think it's inherently rude. I think the reason I still say "no thanks" most of the time is because I know the low-wage employee at the kiosk didn't set the policy and the bulk of the blame is further up the ladder, but I don't see kindness in it at all.

No, I was picturing the people at the kiosk, too.  Squirting it at me would get a very, very bad reaction.  Offering to let me try it, on the other hand, would get a, "No, thanks."

A place of kindness, to me, is without the intent to harm, without nefarious intent.  Kindness is actually going out of the way to be nice to someone.

A place of kindness:  Would you like to try our new #1 combo?
Kindness:  Would you like this seat?  I'll stand so you can rest your feet.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 21, 2013, 10:21:13 AM
A place of kindness, to me, is without the intent to harm, without nefarious intent.  Kindness is actually going out of the way to be nice to someone.

A place of kindness:  Would you like to try our new #1 combo?
Kindness:  Would you like this seat?  I'll stand so you can rest your feet.

See, I think what you call "a place of kindness" is just neutral business communication (and the #1 combo example is not rude, fwiw--going into the fast food place indicates an intent to buy some fast food, so they have a reason to ask you).
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Mental Magpie on January 21, 2013, 10:25:58 AM
A place of kindness, to me, is without the intent to harm, without nefarious intent.  Kindness is actually going out of the way to be nice to someone.

A place of kindness:  Would you like to try our new #1 combo?
Kindness:  Would you like this seat?  I'll stand so you can rest your feet.

See, I think what you call "a place of kindness" is just neutral business communication (and the #1 combo example is not rude, fwiw--going into the fast food place indicates an intent to buy some fast food, so they have a reason to ask you).

Sure, but it isn't from a place of unkindness (trying to lure you into a scam or something), thus, to me, that makes it from a place of kindness.  (The combo one probably wasn't a good example, you're right, but I think you still got my explanation, right?).

I can see where we differ in our approach to it, though.  I still think it requires a thanks, but I can see where you don't think it does.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 21, 2013, 10:28:05 AM
A place of kindness, to me, is without the intent to harm, without nefarious intent.  Kindness is actually going out of the way to be nice to someone.

A place of kindness:  Would you like to try our new #1 combo?
Kindness:  Would you like this seat?  I'll stand so you can rest your feet.

See, I think what you call "a place of kindness" is just neutral business communication (and the #1 combo example is not rude, fwiw--going into the fast food place indicates an intent to buy some fast food, so they have a reason to ask you).

Sure, but it isn't from a place of unkindness (trying to lure you into a scam or something), thus, to me, that makes it from a place of kindness.  (The combo one probably wasn't a good example, you're right, but I think you still got my explanation, right?).

I can see where we differ in our approach to it, though.  I still think it requires a thanks, but I can see where you don't think it does.

I don't think kindness is an on/off switch. I think there are all sorts of actions that are neither kind nor unkind. That is probably where we disagree.

In the #1 example, I might not say "no thanks" specifically for the offer of the number 1, but I'll say thank you somewhere in the whole order. I might respond with "No, but I'd like a #3 combo please" and then "thank you" when we're finished.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Kaypeep on January 21, 2013, 10:38:24 AM
What I've noticed more and more these days is EVERYONE is saying "thank you" and it becomes like a vicious circle, it seems no one is simply able to say "you're welcome" or "My pleasure" or even "no problem."

Me: May I borrow a pen?
Coworker:  Here you go.
Me:  Thank you.
Coworker:  Thanks.

Me: (being handed my purchases by cashier)  Thank you.
Cashier:  Thank you. 

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Yvaine on January 21, 2013, 10:39:39 AM
What I've noticed more and more these days is EVERYONE is saying "thank you" and it becomes like a vicious circle, it seems no one is simply able to say "you're welcome" or "My pleasure" or even "no problem."

Me: May I borrow a pen?
Coworker:  Here you go.
Me:  Thank you.
Coworker:  Thanks.

Me: (being handed my purchases by cashier)  Thank you.
Cashier:  Thank you.

Ha, yeah, I do this sometimes too. I think it's left over from working in customer service, when you're supposed to thank people at all sorts of points in the conversation. I still end calls with "thank you" sometimes even when the person has called to ask ME a favor!
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: DottyG on January 21, 2013, 11:05:34 AM
A tangent to the real discussion in the thread, but I have to agree with you on this MM - just reading about someone spraying me with something without my permission made me have an angry reaction.

Quote
I do not condone putting the product on your without your permission.  In fact, even the thought is making me have a very angry reaction to someone doing that.

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 21, 2013, 11:07:15 AM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
I disagree because the person in the mall or store is not offering it out of kindness they are offering it because they want to make a sell.  But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 

I'm also ok with the phrase "I'm good" but I find I only use it after I've been offered the same thing before and have already said thank you and usually in informal settings.  Like the example of being offered another glass of wine or another cup of coffee.  The Thanks is implied and was already offered with the first, second, and third glass/cup offered.

I do however dislike the phrase in response to "How are you today?"

So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?
Because ignoring someone who is obviously speaking directly to you feels extremely rude to me and slightly dehumanzing.

And I didn't say the person offering me a sprtiz of perfume was doing it out of maliciousness. You said it was being offered out of an act of kindness.  Your implication was that any act done out of kindness required a thank you after the no.  I disagreed that their offer was done out of kindness.

If you don't make eye contact, I don't see the problem; how do you know they aren't speaking to someone else?  If you make eye contact then look away and don't say anything, then I agree, that can be rude.  You also said "if you acknowledge them at all"...isn't that the same as not saying anything at all like I suggested?

I didn't say anyone said that someone offering perfume was doing so out of maliciousness.  I was simply pointing out that the smack upside the head was malicious* and that I did not think the offer of perfume was along the same lines, thus it is not malicious.


* I thought the "You want some of me?" was asking for a fight, not a "date".  I missed the "Hey, baby!!" part.  I thought 1 and 3 of the list were malicious while 2 was not.
In my original post I stated: 
But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 
I thought by using the past tense of "I was finding" and the phrase "So now" would imply that in the past I had been acknowledging everyone who had approached me but I am now I may not acknowledge them at all.

But the non-acknowledgement feels very rude to me. When I'm walking one foot from someone saying "miss, miss" and they are looking directly at me it is pretty obvious they are talking to me.  Completely ignoring them seems very dehumanizing of them to me but it is a feeling that I have come to accept on occasion.

And as a person in their shoes, I think I would rather have someone respond with a "No" without the "Thank You" than to not acknowledge I exist at all.  But I see you would rather not be acknowledge at all if you were in their shoes rather than be acknowledge and told "No" if there was no "Thank You" added to the end of the sentence. 

Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: White Lotus on January 21, 2013, 11:26:34 AM
While working in a country with many pushy street vendors, I learned that speaking was absolutely the wrong thing to do if I was not interested.  "No, thank you" is seen as opening negotiations.  I now give a shake of my head and keep walking.  Mall culture in the US is becoming similar, with all the kiosks, sample pushers and sprayers.  It feels a little off to me not to respond with, "No, thanks," but the problem has become acute and I don't any more. Sharp "no" shake (some places it is a different gesture) and walk on.
Title: Re: "I'm good" again
Post by: wendelenn on January 21, 2013, 01:02:06 PM
That's quite alright  :).  I'll try again.

When the answer is "no" (not any other form of it) to something that is offered, a "thanks" should automatically follow.  To not follow with a thanks is, IMO, rude.

Depends on what is offered.

"You want another smack upside the head?" "No." 
"Would you like to try a spritz of Ritzy Stinky perfume?" "No."
"Hey, baby!! You want some of me?" "No."

I didn't think I had to add the caveat that something that was offered out of kindness...

As for the perfume one, yes, I think thanks is required after that.
I disagree because the person in the mall or store is not offering it out of kindness they are offering it because they want to make a sell.  But I'll admit that I have been so conditioned to say "No, Thank you" that I was finding myself walking through our local mall not even being able to complete a conversation with my DD because I was saying "No Thank you" to so many offers of calendars, sunglasses, lotion samples, tea samples, eye brow waxing and massages.  So now I'm to the point that they most they get is a "No" or a shake of the head if I even acknowledge them at all. 

I'm also ok with the phrase "I'm good" but I find I only use it after I've been offered the same thing before and have already said thank you and usually in informal settings.  Like the example of being offered another glass of wine or another cup of coffee.  The Thanks is implied and was already offered with the first, second, and third glass/cup offered.

I do however dislike the phrase in response to "How are you today?"

So what if it is their job?  It's not out of maliciousness, it is from a place of kindness even if it means they get paid to do it.  That requires a "thanks" after the no.  If you don't feel you can have a conversation because you're too busy declining the offer, why not continue your conversation and pretend like you didn't hear them?

Unsolicited pushiness by a salesperson is not kindness. It is harassment.