Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Techno-quette => Topic started by: iggylove on February 08, 2013, 07:05:01 PM

Title: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: iggylove on February 08, 2013, 07:05:01 PM
I played basketball for several years with "Lenny".  He has a 20-something daughter "Lennita", whom I have met a couple of times when she subbed for the team.  On January 23rd, I received an email link to Indegogo (a fundraising site) with the following intro:

"Recording an album has been my dream for as long as I can remember and this year is the year I finally go for it."  She then encourages everyone to go to the site, and to share with everyone we know "and bully them into donating too!"  Ugh.  I hit delete and forgot about it.

Then, on January 31st, I received a helpful reminder from Lennita to make her dreams come true. "And to the people who have already donated that are getting this email, yes, I do like you more than everyone else."  Delete.

This morning, I got an email from her father, Lenny with "a gentle reminder to some of you" to support her cause.

Again, Lennita is in her mid-20s, a college graduate, and able bodied.  Who does this?!  And at what point can I reply with a request to unsubscribe?
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: WillyNilly on February 08, 2013, 07:31:11 PM
Wow, how obnoxious.

I think if you are comfortable asking to be removed from the list, I say its been more then ample time to do so.
This is her hobby, and she can fund it just like everyone else funds their won hobbys.  And really its not all that expensive even.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: bonyk on February 08, 2013, 08:18:23 PM
"I'm sorry I am not able to financially contribute to your dream, because I am currently funding my own dream to be a self-supporting grown-up.  However, I have often wondered what Tahiti is like.  I'll shoot you an email when my donation site is up.  Talk to you soon!"

 >:D
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: CakeBeret on February 08, 2013, 09:15:58 PM
Would it be wrong to set up a donation site for a luxury vacation and then spam her (and only her!) with incessant requests to donate?

Okay, yes, it would.

Realistically...I would reply to her and say something to the effect of "How exciting for you! I'm unable to donate, so please take me off your email list. However, I wish you the best and I hope you succeed!"
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: gramma dishes on February 08, 2013, 10:16:30 PM
...   This morning, I got an email from her father, Lenny with "a gentle reminder to some of you" to support her cause.   ...

...   And at what point can I reply with a request to unsubscribe?

The point has arrived.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: blarg314 on February 08, 2013, 10:55:02 PM

At this point I think a straightforward "Please remove me from your mailing list for donations" would be appropriate by this point.

Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: White Lotus on February 09, 2013, 11:07:06 PM
Indiegogo and Kickstarter -- there are probably more -- generally fund artistic efforts and generally give donors a chance to get involved in a project and follow it.  It can be fun for those who enjoy new music, or independent film, or new books, games or technology.  It can even be a way to learn about project development and production by getting involved in someone else's project.  Successful crowd source fundraising requires plans, budgets, samples, concentrated publicity campaigns, and using premiums to get a support base of people enthusiastic about the project.  What I see here is somebody doing it wrong.  I don't see any talk of a link to sample, I don't see a specific project description or a budget.  I don't see a premium for supporters at different levels.  What I see sounds like a kids's little hobby project, and not a serious artistic endeavor.  What I see is an attempt to solicit donations rather than sponsorship and project or artist support.  I wouldn't send this young woman any money because she hasn't done her homework.  I also wouldn't criticize crowd funding generally just because some people don't know how to use it.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: blue2000 on February 10, 2013, 07:39:16 AM
Indiegogo and Kickstarter -- there are probably more -- generally fund artistic efforts and generally give donors a chance to get involved in a project and follow it.  It can be fun for those who enjoy new music, or independent film, or new books, games or technology.  It can even be a way to learn about project development and production by getting involved in someone else's project.  Successful crowd source fundraising requires plans, budgets, samples, concentrated publicity campaigns, and using premiums to get a support base of people enthusiastic about the project.  What I see here is somebody doing it wrong.  I don't see any talk of a link to sample, I don't see a specific project description or a budget.  I don't see a premium for supporters at different levels.  What I see sounds like a kids's little hobby project, and not a serious artistic endeavor.  What I see is an attempt to solicit donations rather than sponsorship and project or artist support.  I wouldn't send this young woman any money because she hasn't done her homework.  I also wouldn't criticize crowd funding generally just because some people don't know how to use it.

I agree. Fundraising can be either great or terrible depending on the circumstances. It sounds like she is leaning towards terrible with all the reminder notes. Starting a dream project shouldn't have everyone around you running for cover. :P

And yes, it is fine to say "Sorry, I am unable to donate. Best of luck to you!"

I do have to wonder what the heck she is spending this money on. Sure, the big stars spend megabucks on CDs, but lots of people still record their first demo CDs in their garage/basement. There is even an RPM Challenge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Challenge) going on in some cities right now, much like NaNoWriMo - the idea is to record a CDs worth of songs/music/whatever in a month and share it with everyone else at the end. There are also music sites that will sell independently-made CDs. If this is truly her dream and she has no money, why isn't she starting with the cheaper options??
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: CaffeineKatie on February 10, 2013, 10:39:45 AM
I can see using Indiegogo, etc. to send out ONE solicitation--most of the ones I've received/read also promise investors/donors a small related gift in return for their support of the project listed.  It's easy to delete if you aren't interested and a potentially creative way to raise support for interesting projects.  HOWEVER, the repeated nagging/nudging/demanding--bad, bad, bad!  Yep, I'd block these two, no explanation needed.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: MrTango on February 10, 2013, 03:10:05 PM
This sounds like a perfect situation in which to use your email site/software's Spam filters.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: iggylove on February 12, 2013, 08:39:13 PM
Indiegogo and Kickstarter -- there are probably more -- generally fund artistic efforts and generally give donors a chance to get involved in a project and follow it.  It can be fun for those who enjoy new music, or independent film, or new books, games or technology.  It can even be a way to learn about project development and production by getting involved in someone else's project.  Successful crowd source fundraising requires plans, budgets, samples, concentrated publicity campaigns, and using premiums to get a support base of people enthusiastic about the project.  What I see here is somebody doing it wrong.  I don't see any talk of a link to sample, I don't see a specific project description or a budget.  I don't see a premium for supporters at different levels.  What I see sounds like a kids's little hobby project, and not a serious artistic endeavor.  What I see is an attempt to solicit donations rather than sponsorship and project or artist support.  I wouldn't send this young woman any money because she hasn't done her homework.  I also wouldn't criticize crowd funding generally just because some people don't know how to use it.

True.  The emails in question contained none of those elements that make crowdsource/fundraising sites a valid option for some.  My sense of her is that of a young woman who is not quite ready to grow up, and is using this endeavor as a way to cross something off her bucket list.  She apparently does not intend to pursue music as a career. 
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: snowdragon on February 12, 2013, 10:37:56 PM
One of my friends is using Indiegogo currently...her facebook posts are often about it. I honestly see no difference between posts to fundraise for an adult's endeavor and fundraising for a kid's. Kids go door to door and adults do facebook and email.

 If you would tell a kid begging at your door, "No" why is it so hard to say "No" to this?

Personally I would be blocking the guy's email.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on February 13, 2013, 01:05:41 AM
I don't think you should block or unsubscribe -- simply because I want to know how many more reminders they'll send.  Maybe they'll escalate. You wouldn't want to miss the email that informs their cheap friends that they've destroyed a young girl's dream.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: iggylove on February 13, 2013, 09:23:15 AM
I don't think you should block or unsubscribe -- simply because I want to know how many more reminders they'll send.  Maybe they'll escalate. You wouldn't want to miss the email that informs their cheap friends that they've destroyed a young girl's dream.

Ha!  Well, the campaign ended recently, and she made her goal of low four figures.  So I suppose I have many more of these types of emails to look forward to; help me throw an album release party, buy a ticket to attend my concert, help me buy a van to tour the country....

And two funny codas that I discovered when I clicked the link for the first time to see if the fundraiser had ended: she uploaded a video that features more begging (but absolutely no singing), AND, if you donate a significant amount, you totally get a handwritten thank you note.   :o
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: nuit93 on February 13, 2013, 11:31:35 AM
My experiences with online beggars are that it NEVER ends with just one campaign.  Once they realize that they *can* use that as a source of income, they will for everything.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: GSNW on February 17, 2013, 08:59:40 PM
It's fine for you to reply and ask to be excluded from future emails.  I casually know a woman with whom I work on an online product.  I got an email a few months ago from her daughter (who is inher early teens) promoting her current club fundraiser.  I replied, "Hi Daughter, please take me off your email list.  Thank you!"

You're not even obligated to say you can't donate.  Obviously, if you ask to be excluded, even the most dim-witted will get the message.

I DO think OPs situation is much more "gimme" than a kid hitting up adults for an activity.  I wasn't thrilled with coworker giving my email to her kid but since she honored my request, no biggie.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: Margo on February 25, 2013, 08:42:35 AM
I think as a general rule, indigogo and kickstarter projects are better than kids/adults begging for sponsorship, as they work more like a pre-order or investment.
But the way this girl has done it is completely wrong. I  think *one* e-mail to let people know you are running a marathon for charity / crowd funding a project/ whatever is OK, provided it is sent to people you already know (i.e. NOT your parents colleagues who you don't personally know) or who have expressed an interest.

After that, updates on your *own* facebook page / twitter account are fine, but follow up e-mails to others? Absolutely not.

I'd be inclined to respond to the daughter saying "My name seems to have been added in error to your mail shot, please remove it" And I would then be filtering her mails straight to my junk folder.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: LadyR on March 05, 2013, 11:16:57 PM
Indiegogo and Kickstarter -- there are probably more -- generally fund artistic efforts and generally give donors a chance to get involved in a project and follow it.  It can be fun for those who enjoy new music, or independent film, or new books, games or technology.  It can even be a way to learn about project development and production by getting involved in someone else's project.  Successful crowd source fundraising requires plans, budgets, samples, concentrated publicity campaigns, and using premiums to get a support base of people enthusiastic about the project.  What I see here is somebody doing it wrong.  I don't see any talk of a link to sample, I don't see a specific project description or a budget.  I don't see a premium for supporters at different levels.  What I see sounds like a kids's little hobby project, and not a serious artistic endeavor.  What I see is an attempt to solicit donations rather than sponsorship and project or artist support.  I wouldn't send this young woman any money because she hasn't done her homework.  I also wouldn't criticize crowd funding generally just because some people don't know how to use it.

Exactly this. Friends of ours are musicians and they used kickstarter to try and fund their first album (sadly it failed), but they went about in a much more organized way. Hey laid out exactly what they needed money for, offered reasonable incentives and didn't soam anyone (just posted some updates on their band facebook page) and when it failed there was no whining, they just went aout looking for other options and ended up instead producing an EP which got on itunes and has produced modest sales which they're adding to their record fund.

No sour taste left at all.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: mimi_cat on March 11, 2013, 02:43:27 PM
Oh my.  I live in a city with a thriving music industry - and I know a ton of people who also play/sing in addition to holding down full time jobs.  I might consider donating to someone who I knew had talent, who had been making the rounds playing, etc.  All the bars/restaurants here have live music, and almost all of them are selling a CD for $5-10.  I've bought a few here and there, but I don't think any of them have been from someone who ends up making it big. 

I have some friends who recently used gofund.me to hassle people into paying for their daughter's spring trip to DC.  They posted on Facebook saying how "she NEEDS to go" and "she's so smart" and they raised $1500+ in a few days.  Ugh. 
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: WillyNilly on March 11, 2013, 06:40:42 PM
Interesting piece in the Wall Street journal this weekend about people doing this (begging for a dream) in order to move to NYC.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323628804578348413644156942.html

Now don't get me wrong, I love NYC and I think you should all move here, but I found this funny because honestly?  NYC isn't all that expensive!  Its not cheap, but it didn't even make it onto the Huffington Posts list of 10 most expensive cities to live in the US list last month.
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: Eeep! on March 28, 2013, 06:40:09 PM
Interesting piece in the Wall Street journal this weekend about people doing this (begging for a dream) in order to move to NYC.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323628804578348413644156942.html

Now don't get me wrong, I love NYC and I think you should all move here, but I found this funny because honestly?  NYC isn't all that expensive!  Its not cheap, but it didn't even make it onto the Huffington Posts list of 10 most expensive cities to live in the US list last month.

Aww, but Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan DID make the top 10 list prepared by the Council for Community and Economic Research! :)
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-expensive-urban-areas-in-america-2013-2?op=1
Title: Re: Ugh! Begging for a Dream.
Post by: WillyNilly on March 28, 2013, 08:43:33 PM
Interesting piece in the Wall Street journal this weekend about people doing this (begging for a dream) in order to move to NYC.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323628804578348413644156942.html

Now don't get me wrong, I love NYC and I think you should all move here, but I found this funny because honestly?  NYC isn't all that expensive!  Its not cheap, but it didn't even make it onto the Huffington Posts list of 10 most expensive cities to live in the US list last month.

Aww, but Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan DID make the top 10 list prepared by the Council for Community and Economic Research! :)
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-expensive-urban-areas-in-america-2013-2?op=1

well... those are averages and when you consider how many millions of people we have in NYC, the number's get skewed. I actually recognize the photo that accompanies Queens, and I can say that yes a house might cost upwards of $500k in that area, within 3 miles of there one can a home in the form of a co-op or condo for half that. In some areas - perfectly nice, safe, clean neighborhoods - apartments sell for less then $150k. But places Malba, Jamacia Estates and Douglaston Manor, Queens where houses cost $1-6 million throw off the averages. NYC can be a very affordable place to live, especially considering wages tend to be higher here too.