Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 06:39:38 PM

Title: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 06:39:38 PM
O.K., maybe I am just being touchy because of being tired, but tell me what you think.  My 17 yr old DD has her 18 yr old friend staying for the night.  I was making mini tacos for us all (them, my younger DD, and myself).  Suddenly, there is a knock on my door.  It is Mr. Pizza delivery man..I told him "i'm sorry, you have the wrong house" as my DD and friend come racing down from her bedroom.  Turns out, friend ordered takeout for my DD and herself, which she paid for then, without a word, they proceeded up to my DD's room with their food!  :o >:( How do I get it across to them both, with out absolutely losing my mind, just how incredibly rude this is ?  If it matters, my DD and I have been seriously butting heads because she wants to move in with this friend and I want this friendship to die!die!die!.
At least my 6 yr old DD has listened to my lessons about proper behavior !  When they scampered up the steps, she looks at me and said "well, that was rude!"  ;D
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 15, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Sounds like your DD was just as rude as her friend, honestly, if she had no problem with her friend ordering pizza when she knew you were making something for them both.  And on top of that running down the stairs, not even saying a word to you and running back up.

If you want the friendship to die, die, die, may I suggest putting a stop to the sleepovers?
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Surianne on February 15, 2013, 06:45:08 PM
Hmmm...which part of this is upsetting you?  That you were spending time on the meal without knowing they ordered pizza?  If that's it, I'd wait until you calm down a bit -- a few days, maybe -- and then tell your daughter to let you know next time in advance that they've made other plans for dinner.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: AustenFan on February 15, 2013, 06:49:56 PM
Ordering pizza and following it up with an ice cream run sounds like 90% off the sleep-overs I had as a teen.

I'd guess your daughters friend can sense your animosity (which is fairly rude since she's a guest in your home) and is trying not to engage you.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 06:54:45 PM
Ty for the quick replies !  I am deep breathing and not saying a word.  As for the sleepover..there is a small (long) back story I didn't want to type out, but I can't stop the friendship without strengthening it and if this young lady is here, I can monitor a bit better.  Friend actually shares an apt with another kid and, although there is no drugs/alcohol involved, there have been issues when my daughter was there for a visit that made me uncomfortable.  Fortunately, this girl lives a little over an hour away and neither drive so they are not together constantly (ty Virgin mobile for unlimited texting!)  And yes, my daughter was rude but this girl did the ordering and paying so I am leaning towards her being the one I am sending to EHell first, but I am loading my DD into her basket too!
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: MrTango on February 15, 2013, 07:02:27 PM
Please forgive me, but I don't see how what they did was rude.

If it were my house, I would have an issue with bringing the food into the bedroom, but having a 17/18 y/o ordering a pizza for a sleepover wouldn't bother me at all unless they expected me to pay for it.

Edited to ask: Did they know you were making tacos?
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 07:02:40 PM
I have been very nice and open to this girl, but yes, I will say that they are both aware now that I am pissed :P  I have been welcomed this girl into my home, talked to her nicely...heck, she even friended me on Facebook.  But if I should just let this pass, I will and continue to be nice til this eventually (I hope) fizzles due to distance and time constraints.  Oh, and if it matters, this girl is also on the outs with her mom and won't speak to her because her mom has tried to stop the friendship, so I am considered the 'nice' parent  LOL
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Sharnita on February 15, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
The fact that she paid lessens the rudeness a bit for me.  She didn't put any of the burden on you or your DD.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 07:14:40 PM
Ty all.  I will just let this roll off and talk with my daughter calmly after her friend leaves tomorrow.  Now to go eat a crap load of mini tacos ::)
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: cross_patch on February 15, 2013, 07:15:38 PM
I'm sorry, I can't really see this as rude. Perhaps if you can let us know whether they were aware that you were making dinner hat would be clearer, but this is no different to the hundreds of sleepovers I attended as a teenager.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: gramma dishes on February 15, 2013, 07:19:29 PM
...    Oh, and if it matters, this girl is also on the outs with her mom and won't speak to her because her mom has tried to stop the friendship   ...

Hmm.  That's interesting.  What reason did the other mother have for wanting her daughter to discontinue this friendship?
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Surianne on February 15, 2013, 07:24:38 PM
Yeah, I'm not seeing the rudeness either, unless it's that they didn't tell you and let you keep working on supper when you didn't need to.

Otherwise, I think your dislike for the other girl is really colouring the situation here, and since we don't know the backstory on that, it's hard to understand what's going on.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 07:24:59 PM
Yes, they knew because I said it was Taco night.  And in the gajillion sleepovers I had as a kid, nobody just ordered food.  The parents would always provide a meals/snacks and no one thought to just order food.  I guess what gets me mad is at dinner time, food is being delivered to my house in front of other family members (including the one - me - who invited the guest) and nothing was even offered.  What if I had ordered takeout for younger DD and myself and did not offer any?  BTW, I don't like what they ordered, I think it was the principle of well, thanks for your hospitality, but I am just gonna get my own food and eat it.  Again, though, I will just casually talk with DD about it in a few days and explain why I found it rude to see what she says, because for all I know, she was embarrassed by it too, but we are still working on her spine.  I have not absolved her or condemned her yet because I have no idea what went into this idea.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Sharnita on February 15, 2013, 07:26:48 PM
Yes, they knew because I said it was Taco night.  And in the gajillion sleepovers I had as a kid, nobody just ordered food.  The parents would always provide a meals/snacks and no one thought to just order food.  I guess what gets me mad is at dinner time, food is being delivered to my house in front of other family members (including the one - me - who invited the guest) and nothing was even offered.  What if I had ordered takeout for younger DD and myself and did not offer any?  BTW, I don't like what they ordered, I think it was the principle of well, thanks for your hospitality, but I am just gonna get my own food and eat it.  Again, though, I will just casually talk with DD about it in a few days and explain why I found it rude to see what she says, because for all I know, she was embarrassed by it too, but we are still working on her spine. I have not absolved her or condemned her yet because I have no idea what went into this idea.

Then it is probably best not to codemn anybody.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 07:36:14 PM
Condensed BG - My daughter is Bi polar, has spent the better part of the last 2 years in/out of facilities and she has made great progress, but this girl, while a seemingly nice girl, is exerting a bit too much influence over my daughter.  My DD was doing her therapies, getting ready to get her GED and looking into classes at the local community college...and while things were not perfect between us, were much better and getting better.  Enter this girl and of course she cried to her friends if we have words or she thinks I am being mean  ::), so this girl, who has issues within her family and another friend of hers starts on her about how they are gonna get an apt, they are gonna all have this great happy life.  Well a few weeks ago, the girl has a falling out with her mom, goes to live with other friend, and then convinces my DD to come up.  It was supposed to be a weekend (and no, I was told they were staying with the girls family) and it went longer and my DD wasn't taking her meds and neither was other housemate and there was an incident and well, she is back home but she is angry because the girl keeps saying "i wish you were still up here, we were sooooo happy".   I would like to tell this girl to get lost, but the professional advice has been "be nice, let her stay here instead, and just keep DD steady" 
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 07:38:28 PM
Yes, they knew because I said it was Taco night.  And in the gajillion sleepovers I had as a kid, nobody just ordered food.  The parents would always provide a meals/snacks and no one thought to just order food.  I guess what gets me mad is at dinner time, food is being delivered to my house in front of other family members (including the one - me - who invited the guest) and nothing was even offered.  What if I had ordered takeout for younger DD and myself and did not offer any?  BTW, I don't like what they ordered, I think it was the principle of well, thanks for your hospitality, but I am just gonna get my own food and eat it.  Again, though, I will just casually talk with DD about it in a few days and explain why I found it rude to see what she says, because for all I know, she was embarrassed by it too, but we are still working on her spine. I have not absolved her or condemned her yet because I have no idea what went into this idea.

Then it is probably best not to codemn anybody.
When they came down the steps, girls says "i ordered it'
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: miranova on February 15, 2013, 07:42:59 PM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: cross_patch on February 15, 2013, 07:52:15 PM
But a teenage sleepover is totally different to a dinner party, or having adult guests staying over. It just seems like a pretty small thing to get worked up over. Also, from the op's posts it's not really clear whether it was the daughter or the friend that instigated it- just saying she ordered and paid for it doesn't mean it was her idea. Yeah. They should have said would you like some, and let the op know they were ordering it but it seems pretty clear that the dislike of the friend is colouring the op's reaction a bit.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Iris on February 15, 2013, 07:52:49 PM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

This. Sure, my friends and I got pizza on sleepovers loads, but I had at least discussed it with my mother beforehand, if only as a "Yeah, we'll probably get pizza, so don't worry about dinner for us" sort of way. Any of my friends would also have said "Hey, Mrs Irismum, I'm ordering pizza now, did you want me to pick up anything for you?" She always said no, but that's not the point.

So I agree that this is rude. However, given the state of things I would wait until you are cooled down and then address it with DD as an FYI rather than chastising her.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: citadelle on February 15, 2013, 07:53:08 PM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

I am guessing the friend considers herself a guest of the daughter, not the OP. the distinction may not matter, but it probably matters to the girls.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: kudeebee on February 15, 2013, 07:58:05 PM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

I agree. Guests should not order dinner at the hosts house without clearing it with the host first even if they are teens having a sleepover.  They knew you were making dinner.  When you announced you were making tacos, that is when your daughter should have asked if you woukd mind if she and friend ordered pizza.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: delabela on February 15, 2013, 08:02:22 PM
I think there is a lot of complicated backstory here that is understandably having an effect on the reaction.  I have a hard time seeing this as a serious transgression on the part of the visitor - maybe that's because I don't think the OP was the host, but rather her daughter was.  The girl could have ordered the pizza, but for all we know, they both had a prior conversation wherein they decided to do their own thing for dinner.  For a teenage sleepover, that seems perfectly reasonable.  Your daughter should have told you they wouldn't be joining you for dinner so you didn't go through the effort on their behalf.

For what it's worth, in my family, it would have been assumed we were doing our own thing unless we specifically asked to be included in dinner. 
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 15, 2013, 08:28:07 PM
When I was a teen, even if it was my friend who invited me over for the sleepover I still saw their parents as the hosts because they own the house/pay the rent, and were the adults who had okay'd the sleep over in the first place.   

Course usually when I'd stay with a friend the parents had usually planned out what was for dinner before I came over, as the OP did, I'd be told "hey we're having this for dinner" and I wouldn't argue cause again, they were gracious enough to allow the sleepover so they deserved some respect.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: ladiedeathe on February 15, 2013, 08:30:56 PM
For me, this sounds like a tempest in a teapot.

Did you actually ask the 18 year old to dinner- as in say to her "I'm making tacos, and I'd like to have you eat with us- how many would you like?" and then she up and ordered pizza, or did you just say to your DD "Hey it's taco night," and expect her to know that her friend was welcome? My answer really depends on this.



Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 15, 2013, 08:38:45 PM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

This. Sure, my friends and I got pizza on sleepovers loads, but I had at least discussed it with my mother beforehand, if only as a "Yeah, we'll probably get pizza, so don't worry about dinner for us" sort of way. Any of my friends would also have said "Hey, Mrs Irismum, I'm ordering pizza now, did you want me to pick up anything for you?" She always said no, but that's not the point.

So I agree that this is rude. However, given the state of things I would wait until you are cooled down and then address it with DD as an FYI rather than chastising her.

Both of these, and as the OP's daughter is living with her mother and is 17, she is not the host.  This is the OP's house, thus her house, her rules.  This is not a gracious house guest; this is an SS flippantly doing what she wants in someone else's home.  I'd be just as angry as the OP.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 15, 2013, 08:39:58 PM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

This. Sure, my friends and I got pizza on sleepovers loads, but I had at least discussed it with my mother beforehand, if only as a "Yeah, we'll probably get pizza, so don't worry about dinner for us" sort of way. Any of my friends would also have said "Hey, Mrs Irismum, I'm ordering pizza now, did you want me to pick up anything for you?" She always said no, but that's not the point.

So I agree that this is rude. However, given the state of things I would wait until you are cooled down and then address it with DD as an FYI rather than chastising her.

Both of these, and as the OP's daughter is living with her mother and is 17, she is not the host.  This is the OP's house, thus her house, her rules.  This is not a gracious house guest; this is an SS flippantly doing what she wants in someone else's home.  I'd be just as angry as the OP.

Pod.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Emmy on February 15, 2013, 09:00:10 PM
It is not clear if the guest simply knew it was 'taco night' for the family or if she knew she was invited to eat tacos with the family.  If you mentioned to the guest that you would be serving dinner and she just ordered a pizza without telling you, took it from the delivery person, and wordlessly ran up to the room and closed the door, I don't blame you for feeling put out.  If this were an adult (well 18 is technically an adult), this would be unacceptable behavior and just because they are teens doesn't make it acceptable.  I was also surprised at how many commenters didn't think this was the least bit rude.  Although I don't remember getting pizza at sleepovers (we ate the dinner the parents served), I don't think it is uncommon or an etiquette violation to order pizza.  The violation came in when the teens did not inform OP of their plan and basically grabbed the pizza and ran to their room without saying a word.  At sleepovers, I wasn't expected to hang out with my friend's parents, but I was expected to be polite which this guest failed to do.

I think your daughter has some fault here too.  Unless the guest just whipped out her phone and called for the pizza without telling your DD, your DD should have mentioned to guest that you were making tacos for them.  If friend still wanted pizza, your DD should have mentioned it to you as a courtesy.  I would give the guest a pass for not offering pizza to everybody if she had informed you that she was getting it first.  While it is polite to offer, most teenagers don't have a lot of money and I certainly wouldn't expect them to make an offer to share food they intended only for themselves.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Sharnita on February 15, 2013, 09:07:13 PM
I don't get why you would wait to find out more before judging your FD but you havr no interest in finding out more before condemning the friend. So she ordered it - what did your dd say? Why did she order it?
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: oceanus on February 15, 2013, 09:35:24 PM
Since they knew you were making tacos, and they didn't tell you about ording the pizza, I vote rude and sneaky.

The message was "Okay, we're at your house, but we don't want to deal with you and the money didn't come out of your pocket."

It would definitely tick me off.

OP, did you say "Pizza?  Why didn't you tell me?"

and :) at younger daughter.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Erich L-ster on February 15, 2013, 09:37:53 PM
I think teens ordering pizza is something completely in the realm of ordinary and yes, they should have run it by you but I would put it down to teenage ignorance of etiquette.

In a year or less your DD will be free to live wherever she wants (as long as she can pay her own way) so I'd be careful not to push her away. They may have their own falling out before then anyway, completely unaided by you.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: WillyNilly on February 15, 2013, 09:38:24 PM
I think the pizza thing was rude... but also pretty typical teen behavior.

I will also say, in my experience, labelling your DD's friend totally wrong as you have without any additional info.. well in "teen speak" you might as well have packed your DD's bags. Because al it will do to condemn this girl is convince your daughter just how irrational you are, and how you just don't understand how things are, etc, etc. The more you dislike this girl, the more you will drive your daughter straight to her.

Your DD is 17. When you speak to her about the pizza, assume she was 100% equally involved, not just blindly influenced. And speak to her in "I" terms, such as "I was hurt you didn't comunicate". If you just attack the friend as a bad influence and scold your DD she will feel infantilized and will not be receptive.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 09:46:41 PM
Yes, they knew I was making dinner, as she came over before dinner and was spending the night.  They were both in the living room when I announced taco night, and neither said anything. We had to eat dinner, and I cannot honestly think, even though she has been here before, that I would send her to another room while we ate.  I probably would have raised an eyebrow but not be a bit offended if they would have said then 'oh, we are gonna order food for ourselves' but the first i knew of it is when I opened the door and some guy was asking me for $17.00.  And yes, my DD was rude in whatever part she played in it, but I guess I am just kind of taken aback that someone who I personally invited for the night (when they were discussing when schedules would permit them to get together last weekend) would act like it is acceptable to accept someones offer of hospitality of staying in their home, knowing that food was/would be provided because she has been here before and just order food (she admitted she did).  I guess I am just old fashioned because I honestly could not imagine doing that at any sleepover I had been to. 

As I was typing this, my daughter came down to get some DVD's and I casually asked why they ordered food when they knew I was cooking.  The girl just wanted to have a bite to eat with my DD, so instead of the 2 of them going somewhere local, she saw no problem with ordering in.  When I asked my DD if she thought that was rude in her mind, she shrugged her shoulders and said she didn't think I would be bothered by it  :P >:(  I said my piece, not gonna say anything else and if she comes over again, I will still extend the same hospitality I extend to all her friends (but in my head I won't like it >:D)
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: joraemi on February 15, 2013, 09:51:33 PM
I'm going to call this a communication issue mixed with disappointment happens when expectations don't meet reality.

Was it rude? I think so, yes. But they are kids and as parents our job is to teach them the ways of the world so they can be productive members of society. We're their intentions malicious? Doubtful. If it were happening in my house I think I'd take this approach:

Pop upstairs and ask if they have any leftover pizza that needs to go in the fridge, can you take the pizza box to the trash, etc, then I'd say something along the line of, " you know, in the future it would be really helpful to me if you let me know ahead of time that you want to order pizza instead of eating with the rest of us. That way I won't have a ton of leftovers. ... And really, in a perfect world, I'd prefer that you eat downstairs with us, even if you are eating something different than we are. Then you can go right back to your super secret upstairs fun, ok?".

 You may or may not get some sheepish looks or apologies- either way I think the message will be delivered.

 As I have learned to ask myself with the support of e-hell- is this really the hill you want to die on?
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Sharnita on February 15, 2013, 09:52:55 PM
I am really confused as to why you are willing to give your DD the benefit of the doubt and yet not her friend. If friend should have known then shouldn'tD have also known and said something when friend came up with the idea?  And iff DD didn't think you would mind isn;t it possible she conveyed that opinion to her friend?
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: oceanus on February 15, 2013, 10:04:17 PM
DD may have come up with the pizza idea, and friend agreed to pay.

Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Mental Magpie on February 15, 2013, 10:11:17 PM
Did you guys miss the update? OP says her daughter is just as guilty and that it was the friend's idea.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 10:12:23 PM
I am really confused as to why you are willing to give your DD the benefit of the doubt and yet not her friend. If friend should have known then shouldn'tD have also known and said something when friend came up with the idea?  And iff DD didn't think you would mind isn;t it possible she conveyed that opinion to her friend?

I am not giving my daughter the benefit of the doubt, I just said I put her in her flaming basket second.  No, at that age, sometimes they don't think that their actions could offend someone, but while I cannot quite teach an 18 yr old girl manners, I will teach mine.  The problem is they got caught up in what they wanted (and when I asked my daughter I did make sure to phrase it as I wasn't blaming one or the other but questioning why the two of them decided to order out) and it is obvious it was the other girls idea, but my daughter went along with it willingly.  No this is truly not my hill to die on, I was just flabbergasted by it (and why I just walked away while she paid and went upstairs with it) because as another poster said, if I condemn the girl then my DD will try to prove me wrong by staying in this friendship.  What I tried to do by asking my DD only and by ourselves why they felt the need to order out, was not accuse or blame, but plant that seed that makes her think if that action was acceptable for a guest.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: doodlemor on February 15, 2013, 10:12:51 PM


In a year or less your DD will be free to live wherever she wants (as long as she can pay her own way) so I'd be careful not to push her away. They may have their own falling out before then anyway, completely unaided by you.

I think that Erich has given some wise advice here.  In a few months your DD can go wherever she wants.

The pizza thing can be perceived as rude, but it is entirely possible that the other girl does not realize this.  It sounds like her upbringing has been a bit sketchy.

I think that you need to look at the big picture here, and not do anything that will alienate your daughter - and it sounds like this has been your strategy already.  If the facilities which helped with your daughter's illness offer any kind of counseling I think that you should avail yourself of the opportunity.  It can't be easy dealing with an ill child.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 15, 2013, 10:28:14 PM
ty Erich & doodlemor...my daughter has it down to the minutes till she turns 18 and she can go out by herself (3 1/2 months, not that I'm counting!).  This girl has been brought up in a nice home, but since she turned 18 (she will be 19 next month), she wants to do what she wants while still enjoying the benefits of parental units taking care of her and they butt heads.  She is just exerting, in a few people's opinions, a little too much influence on my DD and steering her away from what she is attempting to do with her life as she heads into adulthood into what she wants THEM to do as BFF's.  And my DD gets individual therapy, but we also do family therapy and I belong to a support group so as to hold on to my sanity.  Bi polar is a female dog, especially when it happens to your sweet, smart, talented, beautiful child.  She has trouble maintaining friendships so when someone shows her the attention this girl has, she loves it.  I just keep biting my tongue and bean dipping until she has her AHA moment, and hope it comes soon!
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: doodlemor on February 15, 2013, 10:35:08 PM
It sounds like you are doing everything you can with a very difficult situation, *inviteseller.  Hang in there, and post here when discouragement strikes.

Hugs to you and your family.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Erich L-ster on February 16, 2013, 12:17:45 AM
Young adults & nearly adults wanting to do their own thing is to be expected. As long as there's no getting drunk (or worse) or dangerous driving I wouldn't be so worried about them wanting to hang out away from the parents.

Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: NyaChan on February 16, 2013, 01:05:05 AM
I think the only rudeness was in not telling you that they wouldn't be eating with you so you didn't make dinner for 2 no shows - and that goes on both the girls.  My house used to be the house to come to and hang out/sleep over.  We didn't tell my parents if we were ordering out, we just did it.  I've never had friends who at that age had to check with their parents before ordering food unless there was some extra reason (money, change in plans, house rules re:food).  If they were younger and there was a reason why you didn't want them to have pizza, I could understand getting this upset.  However, in this case, they are all but adults - were you really going to deny them the choice of what they wanted to eat anyways? Then what does it hurt that they decided it on their own (of course this is separate from their obvious rudeness in not informing you about not eating tacos)?  I put the blame for not telling you mostly on your daughter.  If I made plans with a friend that was different from what their parents thought we'd be doing, I would expect the friend to communicate with their parents if they thought it was necessary.  Once your daughter knew they wouldn't be joining you for dinner, she should have told you.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Deetee on February 16, 2013, 01:12:12 AM
In the spousal apology thread, there was scenario where a son-in-law and a friend briefly left a party hosted by the mother-in-law to pick up some movies for later. The Mother-in-law was upset and most posters in that thread thought her upset should be directed to the son-in-law as the friend would have trusted the son-in-law to know what interactions would acceptable.

I think the same thing applies here. The main "culprit" was the daughter who would be more aware of the rules of the house and should communicate those to her friend. If the daughter thought it would be fine, the friend is off the hook.

From the other posters this sounds like it can go either way depending on the household so I think it's right to follow the lead of the host teen. (I know I had evenings of ordering pizza where it would never occur to me to involve the parents. I just followed the lead of the teen "host" as to whether the parents would feed us or we would feed ourselves. And I know that even if the parent invited us for dinner, I would still follow my friends lead as to whether that was a "real" invite or not.)
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Miss Unleaded on February 16, 2013, 03:10:38 AM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

This. Sure, my friends and I got pizza on sleepovers loads, but I had at least discussed it with my mother beforehand, if only as a "Yeah, we'll probably get pizza, so don't worry about dinner for us" sort of way. Any of my friends would also have said "Hey, Mrs Irismum, I'm ordering pizza now, did you want me to pick up anything for you?" She always said no, but that's not the point.

So I agree that this is rude. However, given the state of things I would wait until you are cooled down and then address it with DD as an FYI rather than chastising her.

Both of these, and as the OP's daughter is living with her mother and is 17, she is not the host.  This is the OP's house, thus her house, her rules.  This is not a gracious house guest; this is an SS flippantly doing what she wants in someone else's home.  I'd be just as angry as the OP.

Pod.

I agree.  I am really having a hard time understanding how anyone could see this as not rude. 
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Fleur on February 16, 2013, 04:50:50 AM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

This. Sure, my friends and I got pizza on sleepovers loads, but I had at least discussed it with my mother beforehand, if only as a "Yeah, we'll probably get pizza, so don't worry about dinner for us" sort of way. Any of my friends would also have said "Hey, Mrs Irismum, I'm ordering pizza now, did you want me to pick up anything for you?" She always said no, but that's not the point.

So I agree that this is rude. However, given the state of things I would wait until you are cooled down and then address it with DD as an FYI rather than chastising her.

Both of these, and as the OP's daughter is living with her mother and is 17, she is not the host.  This is the OP's house, thus her house, her rules.  This is not a gracious house guest; this is an SS flippantly doing what she wants in someone else's home.  I'd be just as angry as the OP.

Pod.

I agree.  I am really having a hard time understanding how anyone could see this as not rude.

Same here! This would never have flown in my household. I think both daugther and friend were very rude, sleepover or no sleepover.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: sammycat on February 16, 2013, 04:52:41 AM
I definitely think it is rude for a house guest to order food without even speaking to the host.  A simple "would you mind if we ordered pizza?  I will pay of course" would have gone a LONG way.  I think it's double rude that she didn't offer you or your other DD any.  Sorry but you don't order food for half the house and not the rest, especially when you are a GUEST and enjoying the hospitality of the home.  Triple rude that she knew you were making dinner for her and just let you continue working on dinner!  The girls ages mitigate it slightly, but not much.  I vote very rude.  I am kind of shocked that people think this is normal.  I have entertained guests many times and have never had any of them order food while I was in the middle of making them dinner.  I really can't imagine that being anything other than very rude.

When I was a teen, even if it was my friend who invited me over for the sleepover I still saw their parents as the hosts because they own the house/pay the rent, and were the adults who had okay'd the sleep over in the first place. 

Both of these, and as the OP's daughter is living with her mother and is 17, she is not the host.  This is the OP's house, thus her house, her rules.  This is not a gracious house guest; this is an SS flippantly doing what she wants in someone else's home.  I'd be just as angry as the OP.


I agree with all of these.  I'm gobsmacked at both the girls' actions and attitudes, and those posters who think this is ok.

I've been involved with plenty of sleepovers, both when I was a teen, and now as mother of a teen.  I have never, ever, come across this scenario, and if I did, would consider it extremely rude on the part of the teens involved.  Actually I'd be very annoyed at any guest who did this, regardless of age.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: JoieGirl7 on February 16, 2013, 07:21:29 AM
I dont't view the 18 yr old as your guest bit as your DD's guest.  I understand that its your home but primarily, socially, she is your daughhter's guest.  She is there to spend time and socialize with your daughter and not with you.

So, really, its your daughter's fault completly.  Your daughter is the one who did not talk to you.

i would expect that once "kids" are 17 and 18 that they probably wouldn't want to eat with the ret of the family during a sleepover and it was your own assumption that they would do so.

Not only did your DD not talk to you and tell you that her guest did not want to join the fmaily for dinner but you did not delve deeper for an answer when you told them what dinner would be and got no reply.

As far as teaching your daughter manners, she's 17, she probably does get it.

If I could guess I would say that the reason she did not tell you they were going to order a pizza instead of sitting with you for dinner it was because she knew she would get an earful about it  because you just don't like the friend and she knows that.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Roe on February 16, 2013, 07:47:57 AM
The friend was rude.  No one brings food into my home *just for themselves.*  They either share with everyone or they don't do it.  It's rude.  That's a lesson I learned early on.  You either share or you take it elsewhere. 

Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 16, 2013, 08:28:15 AM
I dont't view the 18 yr old as your guest bit as your DD's guest.  I understand that its your home but primarily, socially, she is your daughhter's guest.  She is there to spend time and socialize with your daughter and not with you.

So, really, its your daughter's fault completly.  Your daughter is the one who did not talk to you.

i would expect that once "kids" are 17 and 18 that they probably wouldn't want to eat with the ret of the family during a sleepover and it was your own assumption that they would do so.

Not only did your DD not talk to you and tell you that her guest did not want to join the fmaily for dinner but you did not delve deeper for an answer when you told them what dinner would be and got no reply.

As far as teaching your daughter manners, she's 17, she probably does get it.

If I could guess I would say that the reason she did not tell you they were going to order a pizza instead of sitting with you for dinner it was because she knew she would get an earful about it  because you just don't like the friend and she knows that.

My daughter did not know about the pizza party for 2 until the girl decided to call, but yes, she should have told me but she was not the one who made the decision, because she knew I was making dinner and I am a bit upset she couldn't have said something.  But I still put am sending the friend a little deeper into ehell for assuming that you go into a house you have been invited to (and again, I was the one who verbally invited her) and know food is going to be set out for you (not a formal meal, and I would not have cared if they took theirs to her room) and to to make the decision that my hospitality was not good enough and she wanted to change the plans without a word to me.  If they had told me they were ordering food I would not have wasted time and food making enough for 4 and just had dinner with my younger DD (who btw, was upset because she couldn't understand why they would have a 'pizza party' by themselves).  And my DD knows I will NOT say anything in front of company concerning rude behavior and honestly, my daughter has absolutely NO clue about my true feelings for her friend, other than she cannot live with her and the other kid until she turns 18 simply because she is underage.  I don't think I made any assumptions about their meal plans nor should I have to delve deeper as to what they wanted for their dinner plans..this is my house, not a diner and, as so many posters have said, they are adults/almost adults so when I said it was Taco Night, both could have said something, especially the one who went up to my DD's room and made the decision she wanted to order out for them instead.  Again, I am not absolving my daughter because she could have walked downstairs and notified me, but because she has never had someone just turn aside my hospitality before, I think she was clueless as to what to do.  And knowing this girls mother, she would be mortified that her daughter had done that.  My DD has spent time at her families house and I have been told that she is always a gracious guess, so I guess something got though  ::)
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 16, 2013, 08:33:08 AM
O.K., I was just informed that friend has decided to spend another night  :o  Kitchen is closed ! (No, I did not ok this yet...need to pull the DD aside and try to have a conversation that does not begin with What The Hell!)
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: DistantStar on February 16, 2013, 09:07:17 AM
I would ask your daughter to let you know if she is ordering food/going out/doing something different for meals in the future - I don't think ordering pizza in itself was rude, but I do think not letting you know so you didn't fix more food than you needed was.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: sammycat on February 16, 2013, 09:17:13 AM
I think the age of the girls is almost a red herring here. Any guest and/or other occupant of the house ordering their own food, when they know full well that the home owner/host is in the middle of cooking them a meal, and then not even offering said person some of the food, is rude.

IMO, it's no different to a husband and his friend ordering pizza when he/they know the wife is in the kitchen preparing them dinner, and not even bothering to discuss it with the wife first. It's rude and disrespectful.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: BarensMom on February 16, 2013, 09:19:02 AM
Whoa, wait just a minute here - you were "just informed" that DD's guest is staying another night?  No asking permission or even communication between yourself and the guest?  "Just informed?"  If this were me (and it's not), the only answer would be "that won't be possible"   aka "H*** NO!"
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 16, 2013, 10:34:17 AM
Whoa, wait just a minute here - you were "just informed" that DD's guest is staying another night?  No asking permission or even communication between yourself and the guest?  "Just informed?"  If this were me (and it's not), the only answer would be "that won't be possible"   aka "H*** NO!"

I am waiting a bit to approach this so I don't blow up, but no, it is not happening.  The plan was Friday night, out by Saturday late afternoon/early evening.  We have family plans for tomorrow for an outing with various family members and this girl is not invited.  From the little I have gleaned before I had to walk away and take a deep breath or two (or 30) is the girl  decided not to tell her ride back (a little over an hour away) that she was staying til Sunday and my daughter just found this out because she thought she was gonna go to an early movie with her and ride before she left tonight.  I am getting light headed from all the deep breaths I am taking to keep from blowing up.  I am gonna go out on a limb and guess that this girl thinks "I live on my own so parent rules no longer apply to me."  She is sadly mistaken, because she will be leaving.  And, I don't drive or I would have loaded her inconsiderate self in the car and taken her back last night...with her darn pizza ! >:D
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Mikayla on February 16, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
From the little I have gleaned before I had to walk away and take a deep breath or two (or 30) is the girl  decided not to tell her ride back (a little over an hour away) that she was staying til Sunday and my daughter just found this out because she thought she was gonna go to an early movie with her and ride before she left tonight.  I am getting light headed from all the deep breaths I am taking to keep from blowing up. I am gonna go out on a limb and guess that this girl thinks "I live on my own so parent rules no longer apply to me."  She is sadly mistaken, because she will be leaving.  And, I don't drive or I would have loaded her inconsiderate self in the car and taken her back last night...with her darn pizza ! >:D

So you haven't addressed it yet because you don't want to blow up?  I guess I don't understand the need to take all these deep breaths when a simple "no, that won't be possible" would have ended it.  Also, why didn't your daughter tell her immediately that this wouldn't work?  I almost wonder if I'm missing something, because it sounds like this girl has both of you tied in knots.

I think you're probably correct about her thought process that she's not subject to parental rules, but that doesn't change *your* rights to run your home the way you want.  It's basic "my house, my rules".

Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: JoieGirl7 on February 16, 2013, 11:30:21 AM
You keep saying that you invited the girl for the sleepover.  But, its your daughter's sleepover.  You obviously do not like the friend at all.  And even if the invitation came from you, ots really your daughter who is hosting her because of their age.

I think you are making  a big mistake by blaming this all on the friend and continuing down a  path of indignation (saying how you meed to wait to approach things so you don't blow up).

This is not hte behavior of someone who is in charge of the situation.

I can inderstand why the friend would feel uncomfortable accepting your hospitality at the dinner table.  You say that she has no idea how you feel aboit her, but I really doubt that is the case.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: miranova on February 16, 2013, 12:00:59 PM
A 17 year old does not have the authority, unless explicitely given to her by her parents, to offer to host someone for an additional night.  It might be her guest socially, but it is not her right to decide when to host.  That is FULLY the OP's right, and she has every reason to be irritated that neither of the girls think they need to run this by her first.  If it were me, I would no longer care if the girl could "sense" that I didn't like her.  I would be ok with her sensing that because it would be true. She is rude and is showing zero respect for the owner of the home she is staying in.  Yes, OP's daughter is contributing to the rudeness but OP can't really speak to her about this while her friend is still there.  Friend needs to go, and OP needs to have a conversation with her daughter about house rules and polite behavior.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: KenveeB on February 16, 2013, 12:01:10 PM
Honestly, I think it sounds like you just hate this friend so much that you're determined to blame her for everything. But the pizza problem was your daughter's error. If I'm visiting with a friend and we decide to order pizza, then I'm going to assume it's okay. If we're expected to join the family for dinner, then I'd expect my friend would say that. I don't know all of your house rules, but I know my friend does and I'd assume on a mutual thing like deciding to order pizza for dinner she wouldn't violate all her own house rules without mentioning it. So if you have a problem, take it up with your daughter, and quit trying to absolve her of the blame because it's obviously Friend who's just a bad influence.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Sharnita on February 16, 2013, 12:05:07 PM
Itend to agree, especially since dd said to OP that she thought it would be OK.  It seems very possible that she is giving the friend the go ahead on some or all of this.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 16, 2013, 12:24:14 PM
O.K. Audrey, maybe she is not rude, and maybe she does know that I am uncomfortable with the level of influence she has on my daughter.  But, I have still invited her, I have been nice, speaking with her, asking about her new job, ect, so maybe she needs to be a bit more respectful to the person who runs the house instead of possibly thinking "this woman doesn't like me, so I am not making any effort what so ever to change her mind about me, instead I am just going to show her that I will do what ever I feel like".  That is not working towards a compromise, to which I have done by not telling her she is not welcome to come over or be around my family.  And Mikayla, I agree I should have said something right away, but as I was a bit blindsided I wanted to make sure I had the right words.  Again, there has been issues, and with advice from some professionals the last few weeks who work with my DD, I am being careful to state my position and give no wiggle room for my rules without making anyone into the bad guy.  Fine line to walk.  And for all giving my DD all the blame, yes, she is making some unacceptable judgement calls, but the problem I (and some others) are having with this friendship is the friend calling all the shots and my daughter just letting her (yes, we are working on that) but this girl decided she did not want what I offered (ok if you tell me) and has decided to tell her ride not to come until Sunday (which was done before she came to my house) and my daughter is now stuck between her supposed BFF and the rules and plans of the house.  I did talk to DD by herself and said that girl is out tonight and there would be no arguing and if she didn't tell her, I would  and I am no longer feeling like the hostess with the mostess.  This girl is mistaking my kindness and hospitality for a door mat and I will not tolerate it.  I think I am just flabbergasted by a child (yeah she's 18 but to me she is still a child) acting so rudely in someones home.  I have not always been overly fond of all my daughter's other friends but at least they were good guests and showed the manners they were taught by their parents when they were in my house.  And to the posters who seem to think I have hatred coming out of my pores, I have made sure that no one other than my sister and E hellionions know how I feel, including my own DD. 
Itend to agree, especially since dd said to OP that she thought it would be OK.  It seems very possible that she is giving the friend the go ahead on some or all of this.
she didn't as much give the go ahead as she just did not say ' wait, let's tell my mom"  or 'hey remember my mom is making something" when friend told her that she wanted a meal for just the two of them and ordered.  My DD will.not.stand.up for herself or for what she knows is right for fear of alienating friend.  She just let it happen and hoped for the best.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: NyaChan on February 16, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
To be honest, I again see this as more a problem on your daughter's end.  She should know your expectations in terms of boundaries for guests and consult you on things like dinner and whether her friend can stay another night.  Really from your responses, I get the feeling that you are willing to find any excuse to mitigate your daughter's fault in the situation while jumping on any possible way to blame this girl.  She may very well be a horrible person and a negative influence on your daughter, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everything in this particular situation is her fault.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: JoieGirl7 on February 16, 2013, 12:40:11 PM
Why, if you dislike her so much and don't want your daughter to have anything to do with her would you actually invite her to spend the night?

Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 16, 2013, 01:03:12 PM
Why, if you dislike her so much and don't want your daughter to have anything to do with her would you actually invite her to spend the night?


Well, I will try to keep this short.  Again, my daughter is Bipolar and has spent the better part of the last 2 years in either a hospital or residential facility.  During this time, she lost all her friends because while they have all grown up, made new friends, changed, she came back hoping to still fit in and except for one girl, it didn't happen.  In her quest for new friends, this one is who she has latched onto the most because instead of my daughter overcoming her anxieties and  growing herself, this girl tells her how things are gonna be (this is where you will go to school, this is where we will work, this is where we will live'. ) While I was not into this, I knew if I pushed, she would just latch on harder so I was nice to this friend, opened my house to her and just waited for what seemed like the inevitable petering out :P  In the last 3 weeks, this girl has left her home after arguing with her mom and moved in with another kid who has the same issues as my DD and decided that my DD would also move in...immediately.  So when I was informed that  she was going to this girls house for a few days, I was under the impression that it was actually with the girls family.  And yes, the fireworks when I found out my daughter lied to me were legendary...I honestly don't think I let up on that tirade for an hour, but my DD said she wanted to come home and they were driving her.  That is when the excrement hit the fan and culminated with police, mental health professionals (not for my child) and my brother taking a road trip to get her.  The girl and roomie came to me the next day and apologized and admitted they were wrong and they hoped I would forgive them.  I told them in no uncertain terms how angry I was, how they were lucky I didn't have then charged with custody interference and that they were not ever going to be trusted again for a long time.  After speaking with my DD's therapist, she suggested to not ban all interaction so as to not have them decide that they have to prove me wrong, but to make sure all interaction happens on my home turf where I can supervise and when they get sick of traveling in bad weather and high gas prices, it will hopefully end or when she turns 18 in a few months, then she can go do what she feels she needs to do.  I would love this to go away today, but part of letting my DD grow up is to let her, within reason make decisions on who her friends will be.  With having this girl come here, she can see how she treats others and how she keeps making decisions my DD knows aren't right, we are hoping this will just fade away.  I know this makes no sense, but living with someone with mental illness makes no sense and sometimes the basic rules of the game get thrown out the window.  Again, the girls does not drink, smoke, do drugs, is educated and has an ok job..if it weren't for the controlling factor I probably would tell my daughter to be just like her.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Kiara on February 16, 2013, 01:14:05 PM
OP, I'm going to be somewhat blunt.  Your DD being bipolar is a red herring.  Being bipolar has NOTHING to do with being called on bad behavior.  (Full disclosure.  I have bipolar disorder, have been diagnosed as such for over 10 years.)  I had bad friends too.  And you know what?  On the advice of my parents I cut them off.  It's easier than you think, especially since your daughter is a minor.  There was no reason to let this girl into your house.

Your DD can, and should, be held to proper behavior.  Not extending stays of guests without asking you is proper behavior.  Knowing you were making dinner and being able to tell this other girl that no, we're not ordering food because that's rude is proper behavior.  And being mentally ill has little to do with that.  It is not an excuse.  Therefore, I agree with a lot of the PPs.  Your daughter is just as much to blame, if not more so.  And she should be held accountable.

Oh, and from someone who was bipolar....they know you don't like the other girl.  They'd know that if they were neurotypical teenagers.  Sixth sense and all.  But I was well aware of who my parents wouldn't like.  Even if they never said anything.  They never had to.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: oceanus on February 16, 2013, 01:29:20 PM
Quote
Well, I will try to keep this short.

Short?  No, it wasn't.

Quote
Again, my daughter is Bipolar and has spent the better part of the last 2 years in either a hospital or residential facility

I agree with Kiara; bi-polar has nothing to do with the issue, and it doesn't excuse your daughter's behavior.  Going on about your DD's therapist and the bi-polar is really reaching.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: gramma dishes on February 16, 2013, 01:38:52 PM
Quote
Well, I will try to keep this short.

Short?  No, it wasn't.

Quote
Again, my daughter is Bipolar and has spent the better part of the last 2 years in either a hospital or residential facility

I agree with Kiara; bi-polar has nothing to do with the issue, and it doesn't excuse your daughter's behavior.  Going on about your DD's therapist and the bi-polar is really reaching.

I respectfully disagree.  I think her being bipolar has a LOT to do with it just from the fact that she missed out on a couple of years with her friends and really had to start all over again.  That DOES matter.  The prior friends enjoyed many social experiences that the OP's daughter missed out on.  She's going to be playing catch up for awhile now.

And she was told by a "professional" to not do anything to actively discourage the relationship between her own daughter and the 'new' friend.  Are you saying that she shouldn't listen to the person(s) who actually know her daughter and have dealt with her themselves?  Maybe the professional person is wrong.  You could be totally right.  But I hardly think it's fair to bash the OP for doing what was suggested by someone else who is at least supposed to know what they're doing!
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: SPuck on February 16, 2013, 01:43:25 PM
I think *inviteseller is in a situation where she can't avoid or cut off this person without negative repercussions occurring in the relationship between herself and her daughter. Yes, she could cut this person off completely from her home, but that will most likely result in driving her daughter away faster. Yes, the daughter is making bad decisions, but it sounds like *inviteseller can pin point who is influencing the decisions. I think what she needs at this point is suggestions for where she can set her boundaries. It's like someone who doesn't get along with their in laws, and doesn't invite them into their home, but will still meet them in public places, family events, or occasionally at the in laws home because they are making concessions for someone they love.

Telling *inviteseller to take a hardline with her daughter and the friend isn't going to be helpful because the daughter is going to be 18 soon, and *inviteseller's won't be able to help anymore unless the daughter wants help.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 16, 2013, 01:51:43 PM
OP, I'm going to be somewhat blunt.  Your DD being bipolar is a red herring.  Being bipolar has NOTHING to do with being called on bad behavior.  (Full disclosure.  I have bipolar disorder, have been diagnosed as such for over 10 years.)  I had bad friends too.  And you know what?  On the advice of my parents I cut them off.  It's easier than you think, especially since your daughter is a minor.  There was no reason to let this girl into your house.

Your DD can, and should, be held to proper behavior.  Not extending stays of guests without asking you is proper behavior.  Knowing you were making dinner and being able to tell this other girl that no, we're not ordering food because that's rude is proper behavior.  And being mentally ill has little to do with that.  It is not an excuse.  Therefore, I agree with a lot of the PPs.  Your daughter is just as much to blame, if not more so.  And she should be held accountable.

Oh, and from someone who was bipolar....they know you don't like the other girl.  They'd know that if they were neurotypical teenagers.  Sixth sense and all.  But I was well aware of who my parents wouldn't like.  Even if they never said anything.  They never had to.

I don't use this as an excuse..never have.  In fact, if anything, I set her standards higher than my younger DD because her behavior can be outrageous.  She is Bipolar/ADHD/ severe anxiety disorder/ODD/Depression...we butt heads constantly...it is exhausting.  No matter what I say, she automatically will do the opposite.  She is sketchy on taking her meds...when she is taking them and following her course of therapy, things are good.  We can talk without her taking everything I say and twisting it...she is the classic victim..nothing is ever her fault.  But since hooking up with friend, she has been cancelling appts, not taking meds, and in the state I live in. after the age of 14, they have a complete say in their treatment, so if she chooses not to take meds or go to appts, there is nothing I can do unless she starts cutting again (4 1/2 mos free of that!)  I guess it looks like I am absolving her...I am not, but I also know how she operates and how this girl operates.  The girl chooses to do something and my DD will not say word one against it because she is so dingdangity desperate for this friendship, and when I say something to her (I have said that she needs to stand up for herself and not let anyone tell her to change her dreams of what she wants to do) but that as seen as criticizing her BFF and herself.  Until she is 18, I am legally responsible for her...after that, she can do what she wants (yeah, that is ulcer inducing with her issues) but until then all decisions are final with me.  I guess now I am sorry I posted this because I just wanted to make sure in my head before I talked to my DD about it if it was rude for a guest to order in food like it was their own house.  My DD knows how I feel but I will no longer talk about it.  Thanks to all for your insights and thoughts.  I love seeing the differing opinions !  And as a small update, I am being told there is no way for this girl to get home today and she will leave when her ride shows up tomorrow and because I said something, tension is so dingdangity thick, I am dropping it, cancelling other plans and will talk with DD tomorrow when it is said and done and she is gone that my hospitality will never again be extended to said friend.  Again, ty!
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: oceanus on February 16, 2013, 01:58:28 PM
Quote
Well, I will try to keep this short.

Short?  No, it wasn't.

Quote
Again, my daughter is Bipolar and has spent the better part of the last 2 years in either a hospital or residential facility

I agree with Kiara; bi-polar has nothing to do with the issue, and it doesn't excuse your daughter's behavior.  Going on about your DD's therapist and the bi-polar is really reaching.

I respectfully disagree.  I think her being bipolar has a LOT to do with it just from the fact that she missed out on a couple of years with her friends and really had to start all over again.  That DOES matter.  The prior friends enjoyed many social experiences that the OP's daughter missed out on.  She's going to be playing catch up for awhile now.

And she was told by a "professional" to not do anything to actively discourage the relationship between her own daughter and the 'new' friend.  Are you saying that she shouldn't listen to the person(s) who actually know her daughter and have dealt with her themselves?  Maybe the professional person is wrong.  You could be totally right.  But I hardly think it's fair to bash the OP for doing what was suggested by someone else who is at least supposed to know what they're doing!

1)  I don't think playing catchup necessarily involves rude behavior towards her mother.

2) What I'm saying is what I said.  In my post I didn't say a word about the professional or the relationship.  I wasn't one of the people who delved into all that because I don't think it's necessary.

Bashing?  I don't think so.  Obviously we disagree.  That's just the way it will have to be.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: suzieQ on February 16, 2013, 01:59:23 PM
I have no opinion on the pizza thing, but for her to arrange to stay at your home uninvited (because you sure don't want her there another night, from your posts) is amazingly, incredibly rude and presumptuous.

Do you have anyone who can drive this person home? I saw you don't drive, but how about putting her in a cab? She had money for pizza, she can pay for a cab. There is no way I'd let her stay another night in my home - she doesn't call the shots in your home. You do.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: mich3554 on February 16, 2013, 02:02:32 PM
I think that , as others have said, you are willing to dump all of the rudeness (or what you consider rudeness) on your daughter's friend and are unwilling to assign any to your daughter....particularly that pertaining to dinner.

If you display the derision to the friend that you do here, then the friend may not have felt welcome at your dinner table, despite your words.

Honestly, everything else is not relevant, you don't like this girl and consider her actions rude.  I don't have teenagers, but imagine what was done is considered the norm for someone their age.  Rude?  Possibly.  Hard to know because her actions may have been in response to your attitude.

JMHO
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: Kiara on February 16, 2013, 02:09:44 PM
Quote
Well, I will try to keep this short.

Short?  No, it wasn't.

Quote
Again, my daughter is Bipolar and has spent the better part of the last 2 years in either a hospital or residential facility

I agree with Kiara; bi-polar has nothing to do with the issue, and it doesn't excuse your daughter's behavior.  Going on about your DD's therapist and the bi-polar is really reaching.

I respectfully disagree.  I think her being bipolar has a LOT to do with it just from the fact that she missed out on a couple of years with her friends and really had to start all over again.  That DOES matter.  The prior friends enjoyed many social experiences that the OP's daughter missed out on.  She's going to be playing catch up for awhile now.

And she was told by a "professional" to not do anything to actively discourage the relationship between her own daughter and the 'new' friend.  Are you saying that she shouldn't listen to the person(s) who actually know her daughter and have dealt with her themselves?  Maybe the professional person is wrong.  You could be totally right.  But I hardly think it's fair to bash the OP for doing what was suggested by someone else who is at least supposed to know what they're doing!

And my mother was told by the head of the #1 psychiatric program in the country that bad behavior was bad behavior and she should call me on it every single time.  I'm giving another perspective from someone who has been there.  I was incredibly self destructive.  I started my entire life over again at age 25.  I missed out on a lot, and I screwed some things up that I can never fix.  It's never an excuse to act like a jerk.  It can give you understanding for why something happened, but that's all.  She still needs to apologize for what she did as part of this.

(And yes, if I was the OP I'd be questioning the professional pretty severely on why I should let my minor daughter continue to associate with someone who makes her behavior worse, including compliance with her treatment plan.)
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: WillyNilly on February 16, 2013, 02:14:28 PM
You keep saying your daughter is easily influenced, etc and this girl is telling her how its going to be etc.

Well by you blaming this other girl and not your DD, you aren't teaching your DD to take responsibility for herself.  Why should your DD stand up to this girl and exert her own ideas?  When the other girl calls the shots your DD escapes getting in trouble.  Great outcome for her.  You have given your DD the perfect reason to never be the one in charge - the one in charge takes the heat.

You can't control the other girl.  But you can to a certain extent control whats going with a minor in your home. 

As many others have posted, I think your DD is way more at fault here then this other girl.  And perhaps if you treated your DD as the one who royally screwed up and royally punished your DD, your DD would have some incentive to learn to take charge of situations, because your DD will understand she's the one who will have to pay the repercussions.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: *inviteseller on February 16, 2013, 02:36:08 PM
I think that , as others have said, you are willing to dump all of the rudeness (or what you consider rudeness) on your daughter's friend and are unwilling to assign any to your daughter....particularly that pertaining to dinner.

If you display the derision to the friend that you do here, then the friend may not have felt welcome at your dinner table, despite your words.

Honestly, everything else is not relevant, you don't like this girl and consider her actions rude.  I don't have teenagers, but imagine what was done is considered the norm for someone their age.  Rude?  Possibly.  Hard to know because her actions may have been in response to your attitude.

JMHO

She lives a little over an hour away so a cab would be very pricey.  And, I have been lurking awhile, and isn't retaliatory rudeness unacceptable?  And again, I have never said a cross word to this girl or disparaged her in anyway, but if she feels that I don't care for her, she might want to look at her actions to figure out why I might not be feeling the love.  But obviously from the large consensus, I will let my DD take the fall for this and I will just sit back and wait til this girl leaves my house.  I still haven't figured out my rudeness as, since about 15 minutes after the girl got here in which we had a nice conversation , she hasn't spoken 2 words to me.  I also do not believe I have shown any derision to this girl, but I am questioning her etiquette, but again, the majority rules that I am in the wrong to assign the blame on the guest, so I will adjust my way of thinking and just wait out till she leaves tomorrow.  I am mad about cancelling plans but I have not said a word, in fact DD I don't think at this point knows i did so, that will just be my knowledge.

Willy & Kiara..ty for your observations.  Yes, my daughter is wrong for going along with unacceptable behavior.  She has been taught better and her and I will discuss it, but this is not the time with friend in house.  I have been trying to get DD to take responsibility for herself for a long time.  There are good times...there are bad times...I can only continue to try to guide her when she is willing to listen.  And my DD will face the music, as this girl will NOT be allowed back, but this whole thread has gone down a rabbit hole.  I admitted my DD made bad choices from the word go, but the girl set up her transportation on her own (because right before she got here yesterday DD told me about movies before she would leave so she did not know) and as for the pizza it was an idea the girl came up with and my DD went with it blindly.  Stupid?  Yes?  But the original question was really, was it rude for a guest who knew she would be provided with not only shelter but food for her stay order out for their own little party?  Even if DD had come to me and said "hey, don't worry about dinner, we ordered out", is it not rude for if not the one ordering and paying but both telling the host before hand like when they were told what would be for dinner?  And Kiara, I can question her therapist's professionalism all I want, but it is not their or my decision unless she is actively hurting herself again, because again, in my state, after the age of 14 a patient can accept or deny any or all mental health treatment.  I have talked to dr's and therapist's till i am blue in the face but we cannot force her, all I can do is encourage it.  It is something we live with everyday...it is an adventure I would not wish on anyone, and I am always heartened to hear other posters who have battled mental health issues and came out so successful.  I am going to step away from the thread now because, I admit, it is getting hard being bashed for what is considered maybe bad parenting on my end..I do try on a day to day basis to get it right and I beat myself up enough, but by posting, I (rightfully) opened myself up to the opinions  ty again...you have all given me some insights.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: suzieQ on February 16, 2013, 02:39:00 PM
She lives a little over an hour away so a cab would be very pricey.  And, I have been lurking awhile, and isn't retaliatory rudeness unacceptable? 

I don't see it as retaliatory rudeness. She was invited to stay for one night. Now it's time for her to leave. Being polite doesn't mean being a doormat.
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: perpetua on February 16, 2013, 02:43:47 PM
All this, over a pizza?!
Title: Re: My daughter's houseguest is rude !
Post by: cass2591 on February 16, 2013, 02:44:21 PM
Locked because thread is veering into giving advice that no one here is qualified to give.

Oceanus, editorial comments on other people's posts are not welcome, so I suggest you keep your snide remarks to yourself.