Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: weeblewobble on February 17, 2013, 12:32:17 PM

Title: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: weeblewobble on February 17, 2013, 12:32:17 PM
Yesterday, I had one of those out-of-body, "did that really just happen?" etiquette moments.  I'm 99 percent sure I handled this appropriately, but as usual, I like to run my course of action by "the board's approval."

DD and my mother and I were at a super-mega-store yesterday.  DD is 8 going on 9 and was being her usual well-behaved self.  We were walking down the chip/soda aisle and I saw that a man about six feet away was bending/crouching to the very bottom shelf and his pants had dropped really really low.  We could see the entirety of his rump.  And because he was loading several cases of soda into his cart, this happened several times.  He never bothered adjusting his pants.

My mom's eyes went wide.  DD hadn't noticed yet, so I quietly turned her head in opposite direction.  The Low Pants Guy was on the right side of the aisle, so I was directing her face to the left. I re-directed her attention with something like, "Oh, wow, look at the super-spicy jalepeno flavored chips, I wonder if those would be too hot for Dad." We didn't make a fuss as we passed by.  I just wanted to get my daughter by without her seeing the man's exposed backside.  FTR, we do not allow her to watch movies or programs with elements of nudity, so it's not a case of, "Oh, well, it's nothing worse than she would have seen on TV."

Unfortunately, the woman with Low Pants Guy either saw the shocked expression on my mom's face or my turning my daughter's head, and said, "Grow the (redacted) up."

I directed Mom and DD to go to the next aisle and said, "I won't apologize for preventing my underage daughter from seeing a grown man's bare backside up close and personal."

She called me several names.  I walked away.  We managed to avoid them for the rest of the grocery shopping.  But I was left wondering, 1) Was my wording OK?  For some reason, I felt like I should have said more.   And 2) Should I have reported the couple to management?  I felt like that would be overkill, but my mom wondered, given the severity of the "lack of pants" and the wife's sensitivity to our reaction, if this routine was something the couple did for fun.  Like as a practical joke or stunt or something. 3) Was is more important to guard the couple from embarrassment (i.e. our reactions to the exposure) or to prevent DD from seeing something I didn't want her to see?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Shoo on February 17, 2013, 12:35:04 PM
You were fine.  The other person was low class and rude.  I love it when people use foul language so naturally.  Shows you who they are.

Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: mmswm on February 17, 2013, 12:36:37 PM
I think you did just fine.  Something was obviously wrong with that woman, either lack of class or more serious emotional issues. Given that she cursed at you and could have been perceived as threatening, and that other customers might not have the class and grace that you have, I don't think it would have been overkill to report them to management as people to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: snowdragon on February 17, 2013, 12:40:03 PM
I am 51 and I would not want to see that.  The man was wrong and rude and the woman with him was wrong and rude. You would have been well with in your rights to ask management to deal with it.  Even in Walmart they don't tolerate indecent exposure. 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: JenJay on February 17, 2013, 12:49:24 PM
Normally I'd just look away and keep going, like you did. The fact that the woman seemed to be spoiling for a fight does make me wonder if they were doing it on purpose. I find it hard to believe that someone could show their entire butt and not notice. Wouldn't you feel the fabric slide that far down and/or that "my skin feels cooler because it's exposed" sensation?

I'm not sure if I would have gone in search of the manager but I probably would have mentioned the incident to the next employee I happened across. "Heads up, there's a man on the soda aisle completely exposing his rear and when we made a point of not looking at him his wife cursed profusely at us, in front of my 8 year old."
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Erich L-ster on February 17, 2013, 01:00:39 PM
I am 51 and I would not want to see that.  The man was wrong and rude and the woman with him was wrong and rude. You would have been well with in your rights to ask management to deal with it. Even in Walmart they don't tolerate indecent exposure.

Uhhhhh.....http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/      >:D
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Kimblee on February 17, 2013, 01:02:12 PM
You were fine.  The other person was low class and rude.  I love it when people use foul language so naturally.  Shows you who they are.

Sophisticated as [bleeped]?
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: oogyda on February 17, 2013, 01:04:39 PM
You engaged the crazy.  Totally your call, but to say something more would escalate the situation. Contacting management would, in my opinion be overkill.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: TinyVulgarUnicorn on February 17, 2013, 01:16:48 PM
You were fine.  The other person was low class and rude.  I love it when people use foul language so naturally.  Shows you who they are.

Was this really necessary?  There are many of us on this board who swear like sailors, but that doesn't mean that we can't be gracious and polite people.  Please don't insult us by implying that we're low class and rude.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Venus193 on February 17, 2013, 01:21:50 PM
People like this define declasse and they defy instruction.  I don't see where you were in the wrong.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: weeblewobble on February 17, 2013, 01:33:32 PM
You engaged the crazy. 

Gah!  I did!  I can't believe I forgot one of the first tenets of ehell.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Shakira on February 17, 2013, 01:36:51 PM
Normally I'd just look away and keep going, like you did. The fact that the woman seemed to be spoiling for a fight does make me wonder if they were doing it on purpose. I find it hard to believe that someone could show their entire butt and not notice. Wouldn't you feel the fabric slide that far down and/or that "my skin feels cooler because it's exposed" sensation?

I'm not sure if I would have gone in search of the manager but I probably would have mentioned the incident to the next employee I happened across. "Heads up, there's a man on the soda aisle completely exposing his rear and when we made a point of not looking at him his wife cursed profusely at us, in front of my 8 year old."

POD to JenJay. Except I probably would have sought out a manager. I am 31 and I don't want to see that.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: SamiHami on February 17, 2013, 02:55:01 PM
You were fine.  The other person was low class and rude.  I love it when people use foul language so naturally.  Shows you who they are.

Was this really necessary?  There are many of us on this board who swear like sailors, but that doesn't mean that we can't be gracious and polite people.  Please don't insult us by implying that we're low class and rude.

using obscene language toward a stranger because you don't like that they turned their child away from a man's indecently exposed rear end is the definition of low class and rude. Noone is talking about how a group.of adults might talk in a social situation.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: sweetonsno on February 17, 2013, 04:28:52 PM
On the contrary, I think it's good that you stopped where you did. As others have pointed out, it's best not to engage the crazy.

I'm trying to see this from the other person's side, because the reaction seems so strange. My guess is that your mother's shocked expression looked like disgust to this guy's companion. Nobody wants someone telling their friend that they are disgusting, and it's reasonable that she would feel offended on his behalf. Could she see that his butt was exposed? If not, then perhaps she thought your reactions were due to something else (was the guy overweight, for example) that should not normally illicit such a reaction. It is clearly not okay to berate someone, especially not a customer and especially not with obscenities, but if the problematic exposure wasn't evident to her, I can see why she would want to stand up for him.

1.) The wording did seem like you were assuming that not only was he aware of the problem, but also that he was doing it on purpose, with the intent of exposing himself. That wouldn't make me too happy, either. I've walked out of the bathroom with my skirt unwittingly tucked into the back of my hose before, and if someone said something similar to what you had said, I'd be rather put out. A wardrobe malfunction is embarrassing. Having someone imply you were deliberately exposing yourself is insulting.

2.) As for contacting management, I think it would have been acceptable depending on how you did it. I think it would have been inappropriate to imply that this guy was doing it on purpose, but letting someone know that the guy stocking the shelves needed a better belt would have been fine. You absolutely would have been within your rights to complain about the woman who called you names, though.

3.) Finally, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. It's possible to redirect DD's attention without embarrassing the couple. I think you did fine by pointing out the chips on the shelf. That was, I think, a perfect solution. If there really is no choice, I think you should choose your daughter, but when that isn't possible, you'll get an opportunity to teach your child how to behave appropriately in that sort of situation. I clearly remember being with my mom when we happened upon a man urinating on a Dumpster in a parking lot. She took the opportunity to teach me that the appropriate response was to stare straight ahead and walk on by.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Shoo on February 17, 2013, 04:33:41 PM
You were fine.  The other person was low class and rude.  I love it when people use foul language so naturally.  Shows you who they are.

Was this really necessary?  There are many of us on this board who swear like sailors, but that doesn't mean that we can't be gracious and polite people.  Please don't insult us by implying that we're low class and rude.

Well then obviously, I wasn't talking about people like you.  I presume that since you are not rude and low class, you would not just randomly swear at a stranger for no reason. Would you?
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 17, 2013, 04:45:17 PM
On the contrary, I think it's good that you stopped where you did. As others have pointed out, it's best not to engage the crazy.

I'm trying to see this from the other person's side, because the reaction seems so strange. My guess is that your mother's shocked expression looked like disgust to this guy's companion. Nobody wants someone telling their friend that they are disgusting, and it's reasonable that she would feel offended on his behalf. Could she see that his butt was exposed? If not, then perhaps she thought your reactions were due to something else (was the guy overweight, for example) that should not normally illicit such a reaction. It is clearly not okay to berate someone, especially not a customer and especially not with obscenities, but if the problematic exposure wasn't evident to her, I can see why she would want to stand up for him.

1.) The wording did seem like you were assuming that not only was he aware of the problem, but also that he was doing it on purpose, with the intent of exposing himself. That wouldn't make me too happy, either. I've walked out of the bathroom with my skirt unwittingly tucked into the back of my hose before, and if someone said something similar to what you had said, I'd be rather put out. A wardrobe malfunction is embarrassing. Having someone imply you were deliberately exposing yourself is insulting.

2.) As for contacting management, I think it would have been acceptable depending on how you did it. I think it would have been inappropriate to imply that this guy was doing it on purpose, but letting someone know that the guy stocking the shelves needed a better belt would have been fine. You absolutely would have been within your rights to complain about the woman who called you names, though.

3.) Finally, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. It's possible to redirect DD's attention without embarrassing the couple. I think you did fine by pointing out the chips on the shelf. That was, I think, a perfect solution. If there really is no choice, I think you should choose your daughter, but when that isn't possible, you'll get an opportunity to teach your child how to behave appropriately in that sort of situation. I clearly remember being with my mom when we happened upon a man urinating on a Dumpster in a parking lot. She took the opportunity to teach me that the appropriate response was to stare straight ahead and walk on by.

Weeblewobble said nothing preceeding that woman's vulgar outburst. The woman might have seen her mom's expression or her turning her daughter's head, but I think neither one of those actions was of sufficient provocation to warrant her spewing obscenities.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Marbles on February 17, 2013, 04:56:46 PM
OP, were these people other customers or were they store employees? Or was the fellow an employee and the woman a customer?

If the fellow was an employee, then speaking to a manager about him staying appropriately covered while doing his job would be a good thing to do.

Otherwise, I think you engaged the crazy. Did the fellow say anything when you mentioned his uncovered posterior?
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: weeblewobble on February 17, 2013, 05:34:42 PM
Everybody involved was a customer.  And the guy ignored us all and continued dropping cases of soda in their cart.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: SpikeMichigan on February 17, 2013, 06:24:33 PM

 You were probably OK.

 I think its a fairy big assumption that he was doing this on purpose, and she might have been embarrassed on his behalf and just acted rudely.

 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Sharnita on February 17, 2013, 06:31:35 PM
Yeah, i wouldn't assume he was doing it on purpose.  i guess I would figure he was having a wardrobe malfunction that couldn't be helped as long as he was dealing with the soda.  I'd give him a pass and just see it as an unfortunate circumstance.  Redirecting DD would be the correct way to handle that.  His SO was rude in her response, although when she went off I would just walk away without engaging.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: fluffy on February 17, 2013, 06:58:04 PM
I think that redirecting your daughter was fine. But, it probably would have been a kindness for you or your mom to tap the man on the shoulder and say, "excuse me sir, but you might want to hitch up your pants."

If I was out and about with my husband or another male relative or friend and I noticed that their pants were slipping down, I would tell them to pull them up. But if some random person made a disgusted face about them? I'd probably get pretty angry on their behalf. I wouldn't yell or swear, but I might send them an icy glare of my own.

Your mom might want to work on containing her look of horror. Wardrobe malfunctions happen.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Outdoor Girl on February 17, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
I can see having his pants fall down while picking up the first case.  But to not pull up his pants and continue to get several cases?  Not cool.  You do not expose your bare butt in public and do nothing about it.

OP, I don't think you did anything wrong.  I don't even have a problem with your comment after rude lady cursed at you.  I think your mother could have done a better job at schooling her expression, though.  I wouldn't have said anything to the man, with the woman standing there.  Surely, she could see the wardrobe malfunction, if he couldn't feel it.  Saying something to him would have set her off, too.  Although he might have done something about it.

I don't know about specifically asking for a manager but I think I would have informed the first employee I found, both about the bare butt and about being cursed out.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: HonorH on February 17, 2013, 07:57:03 PM
I think that redirecting your daughter was fine. But, it probably would have been a kindness for you or your mom to tap the man on the shoulder and say, "excuse me sir, but you might want to hitch up your pants."

If I was out and about with my husband or another male relative or friend and I noticed that their pants were slipping down, I would tell them to pull them up. But if some random person made a disgusted face about them? I'd probably get pretty angry on their behalf. I wouldn't yell or swear, but I might send them an icy glare of my own.

Your mom might want to work on containing her look of horror. Wardrobe malfunctions happen.

Huh. I would honestly have the opposite reaction. If my SO were hanging out of his jeans and I didn't realize it until an older woman turned pink and a mom hurriedly redirected her daughter's attention, my last inclination would be to get angry at them. I'd be falling all over myself to get my man decent again while leaping to shield him from other innocent eyes. I'd probably give them a quick look of chagrin and apology and dearly hope no one else saw.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: sweetonsno on February 17, 2013, 08:25:57 PM
<snip>

Weeblewobble said nothing preceeding that woman's vulgar outburst. The woman might have seen her mom's expression or her turning her daughter's head, but I think neither one of those actions was of sufficient provocation to warrant her spewing obscenities.

I agree, but I think that Weeblewobble's comment seemed to target the man, not the woman. He may or may not have been doing it on purpose. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, and he was not given it. There's no question that the woman was in the wrong. Sorry I was unclear on that point.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: delabela on February 17, 2013, 09:08:01 PM
OP, I think you were fine. 

It doesn't really matter if he was doing it on purpose - I would say a very basic requirement of adequate civility is doing your best to avoid exposing your rear end.  Now, if there is a wardrobe malfunction or temporary issue, that is certainly understandable - lord knows I've had a zipper problem or discovered too late a certain top doesn't really work for me.  But I've excused myself and fixed the issue, rather than attacking someone who is merely trying to maintain some decorum. 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: CrochetFanatic on February 17, 2013, 09:29:42 PM
I don't know...If I was the woman, and happened to notice the person I was with was (I'm going to assume unintentionally) showing his (or her, for that matter) backside, and someone else was visibly offended, I would be giving my friend a discreet heads-up that their pants are falling down.

Whether it's advisable or not, it's tempting to answer back with something when someone curses you out.  Weeblewobble might have slipped a tiny bit here, but not as much as the guy's pants!  ;D  The cursing woman was rude, and should have (don't hurt me!) butted out.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Emmy on February 17, 2013, 09:35:14 PM
I also think it was odd that the woman started spouting obscenities simply because somebody turned a child's head in a different direction or gave a look of shock.  She was rude in any case.  My guess to her behavior is I wonder if she knew her companion's backside was exposed and was embarrassed for her which caused her to over react at when other noticed and were uncomfortable.  If she didn't know her companion's backside was showing, she may not have noticed the looks at all.  Even if your mother's look came across as disgust, she should realize that it is shocking and uncomfortable for people to see a man's rear end exposed in public, although I can see her feeling a little defensive on his behalf.  Her rude comment was uncalled for.

<snip>

Weeblewobble said nothing preceeding that woman's vulgar outburst. The woman might have seen her mom's expression or her turning her daughter's head, but I think neither one of those actions was of sufficient provocation to warrant her spewing obscenities.

I agree, but I think that Weeblewobble's comment seemed to target the man, not the woman. He may or may not have been doing it on purpose. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, and he was not given it. There's no question that the woman was in the wrong. Sorry I was unclear on that point.

I feel the same way.  Being accused of purposely exposing yourself if it was an honest mistake would be quite offensive.  I don't assume most people would do this on purpose, although I think sometimes people know this is happening and just don't care.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: weeblewobble on February 17, 2013, 10:28:55 PM
Yeah- I definitely engaged the crazy. Without even realizing I fell into that "trap." It's a bad habit of mine. I will work to do better next time. ... I sincerely hope there isn't a next time with this couple...
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: EllenS on February 17, 2013, 10:40:24 PM
Um...sounds to me like they were both chemically impaired.   Various sorts of "recreational" substances make people less aware of their states of undress, and more belligerent.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: JoieGirl7 on February 18, 2013, 12:40:48 AM
<snip>

Weeblewobble said nothing preceeding that woman's vulgar outburst. The woman might have seen her mom's expression or her turning her daughter's head, but I think neither one of those actions was of sufficient provocation to warrant her spewing obscenities.

I agree, but I think that Weeblewobble's comment seemed to target the man, not the woman. He may or may not have been doing it on purpose. I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, and he was not given it. There's no question that the woman was in the wrong. Sorry I was unclear on that point.

I don't think someone needs to give someone else the benefit of the doubt when it comes to actually wearing clothing in public.

If he can't keep his pants on, that's his problem.  If the two of them cannot deal with the subsequent shock that him not being properly clothed in public brings, that is also their problem.

Frankly, I doubt that it is possible to embarrass people who can't keep their clothes on in a public place.

It is absolutely a natural reaction to be shocked by what the OP and her mother saw.  If they don't want the attention then maybe he should invest in a belt or in a smaller pair of pants.
 
The couple was rude--her for what she said, and him for being inappropriately dressed.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: cicero on February 18, 2013, 01:23:18 AM
you were correct in redirecting your dd's head, but i wouldn't have responded to a random stranger who for no reason started to curse at me. I don't think it matters whether he did this on purpose or not, whether she was embarrassed and didn't know how to react, whether they were on drugs or whatever. he shouldn't have been exposed like that, you didn't want your dd to see, that was fine. but once she escalated things - the best thing to do would be to walk away and/or find a staff member who can help

Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Zizi-K on February 18, 2013, 06:04:06 AM
I'm curious about some of the advice to talk to a manager. Presumably, once the guy stood up the problem would be resolved. What would a manager or store employee do about it? It's not like in a restaurant where you can asked to move moved away from a loud table. There doesn't seem to be a remedy here that they could offer. I highly doubt they would race through the store, looking for the offenders.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 18, 2013, 06:25:10 AM
I'm curious about some of the advice to talk to a manager. Presumably, once the guy stood up the problem would be resolved. What would a manager or store employee do about it? It's not like in a restaurant where you can asked to move moved away from a loud table. There doesn't seem to be a remedy here that they could offer. I highly doubt they would race through the store, looking for the offenders.

Why wouldn't the store management respond? This was a man who repeatedly exposed himself, and a woman who cursed at others, and called WeebleWobble several names, which I think likely were also vulgar. 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Yvaine on February 18, 2013, 06:45:26 AM
Um...sounds to me like they were both chemically impaired.   Various sorts of "recreational" substances make people less aware of their states of undress, and more belligerent.

I don't think we need to go there. They could just be jerks.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Dalek on February 18, 2013, 08:16:12 AM
If the couple are doing " serial mooning" as a prank, won't the woman's reaction have been laughter rather than anger?
I think the only way to handle this is to just avert your eyes and try to ignore. As for the lady swearing, that's really weird but then again people can be weird and there's no changing them.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Zilla on February 18, 2013, 08:54:20 AM
Um...sounds to me like they were both chemically impaired.   Various sorts of "recreational" substances make people less aware of their states of undress, and more belligerent.

I don't think we need to go there. They could just be jerks.
Yep and if that's the case, then everyone around here must be high as a  kite too.  Honestly, I think the OP's mother could have better control of her own face.  It must have been a pretty judgey look on her face for the lady to notice and comment on it. And while the child have been sheltered by adult stuff on tv/movies, I am sure the older lady has seen her share of butt cracks.  I think the OP was perfectly fine to redirect her daughter.  I personally wouldn't have said a word, like others said, don't engage the crazy!
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: AmethystAnne on February 18, 2013, 09:08:53 AM
A full moon in the grocery aisle would be super-surprising. I would like  ???
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: weeblewobble on February 18, 2013, 09:46:49 AM
To defend my mom, there was no disgust or judgement on her face.  There was no disdainful curl to her lip or anything.  Her eyes just went wide.  It lasted a second or two and then she recovered and walked away very quickly with us. 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Yvaine on February 18, 2013, 10:02:26 AM
Is it possible that the woman hadn't seen the wardrobe malfunction yet herself, and thought your family was making shocked looks at some other (unusual enough that they might get rude/prejudiced remarks sometimes, but not indecent) aspect of their appearance?
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Venus193 on February 18, 2013, 10:02:56 AM
In the last few weeks I've met several women (mostly over 50) who are sufficiently disgusted by this low pants thing among teens that they have gone on the offensive about this.  They look at them in the street as sternly as Prof McGonagal in Harry Potter and say things like "I don't want to see that" and "Do you think you'll get a job dressed like that?"  They've said that most of their targets are too shocked to reply.

This is probably a violation of E-Hell rules, but I understand their frustration with this stuff.  I've never done this and wouldn't dare (esp if I were alone).
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: perpetua on February 18, 2013, 10:13:37 AM
Is it possible that the woman hadn't seen the wardrobe malfunction yet herself, and thought your family was making shocked looks at some other (unusual enough that they might get rude/prejudiced remarks sometimes, but not indecent) aspect of their appearance?

This would be my guess.

OP, if it had been your young daughter who'd 'gone wide eyed' I could have understood it because that's the reaction that a small child who had never encountered something like this might naturally have without any instruction to the contrary. But your mother as a grown up really should be able to have better control of her face. It's only a backside; it's not like she saw someone waving their genitals around in the soup aisle.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: MrTango on February 18, 2013, 10:14:30 AM
I'm curious about some of the advice to talk to a manager. Presumably, once the guy stood up the problem would be resolved. What would a manager or store employee do about it? It's not like in a restaurant where you can asked to move moved away from a loud table. There doesn't seem to be a remedy here that they could offer. I highly doubt they would race through the store, looking for the offenders.

They might do something, but in this situation, I wouldn't bother.

In the time it would take me to find a manager and make a complaint, I could have finished checking out, loaded my groceries in my car, and be on my way never to see or hear from the offending parties again.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: weeblewobble on February 18, 2013, 10:23:16 AM
Is it possible that the woman hadn't seen the wardrobe malfunction yet herself, and thought your family was making shocked looks at some other (unusual enough that they might get rude/prejudiced remarks sometimes, but not indecent) aspect of their appearance?

Nope.  Other than low pants, there was nothing remarkable about their appearance.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Zilla on February 18, 2013, 10:40:34 AM
To defend my mom, there was no disgust or judgement on her face.  There was no disdainful curl to her lip or anything.  Her eyes just went wide.  It lasted a second or two and then she recovered and walked away very quickly with us.


An expression for a second wouldn't be noticed, but how do you know if you were redirecting your daughter's attention to the left if your mom didn't continue to do a look or a very distinct looking obviously to the left to avoid looking at the butt crack?  Obviously the lady noticed something was off to say something.  Now don't get me wrong, lady was all kinds of rude. 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: TurtleDove on February 18, 2013, 10:45:39 AM
I agree that your mother should exercise better control of her face.  My daughter is 4 but in my experience the more I try to redirect her from something I want to shield her from the more likely she is to actually notice that something.  If this were me, I would have completely ignored it.  There are plenty of things I don't want to see every day - things that either disgust or offend me.  Rather than tell people they disgust or offend me, I ignore whatever it is that bothers me and the problem is solved. 

That doesn't mean the woman wasn't very rude.  She was.  I just think an adult(your mom) should be capable of not showing obvious disdain in a situation such as what you described.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: onyonryngs on February 18, 2013, 10:47:53 AM
You engaged the crazy.  Totally your call, but to say something more would escalate the situation. Contacting management would, in my opinion be overkill.

Yup.  I know the crazy actually spoke up first, but I would've let it go & move on.  It's not like the guy was trying to flash the world and calling management would've been way over the top.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 18, 2013, 10:54:40 AM
I agree that your mother should exercise better control of her face.  My daughter is 4 but in my experience the more I try to redirect her from something I want to shield her from the more likely she is to actually notice that something.  If this were me, I would have completely ignored it.  There are plenty of things I don't want to see every day - things that either disgust or offend me.  Rather than tell people they disgust or offend me, I ignore whatever it is that bothers me and the problem is solved. 

That doesn't mean the woman wasn't very rude.  She was.  I just think an adult(your mom) should be capable of not showing obvious disdain in a situation such as what you described.

There was no disdain showing on her mother's face, according to Weeble's post from 8:46 this morning.

And, while you might be able to redirect your daughter your way, perhaps Weeble's found it best to redirect her daughter her way.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: TurtleDove on February 18, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
I agree that your mother should exercise better control of her face.  My daughter is 4 but in my experience the more I try to redirect her from something I want to shield her from the more likely she is to actually notice that something.  If this were me, I would have completely ignored it.  There are plenty of things I don't want to see every day - things that either disgust or offend me.  Rather than tell people they disgust or offend me, I ignore whatever it is that bothers me and the problem is solved. 

That doesn't mean the woman wasn't very rude.  She was.  I just think an adult(your mom) should be capable of not showing obvious disdain in a situation such as what you described.

There was no disdain showing on her mother's face, according to Weeble's post from 8:46 this morning.

And, while you might be able to redirect your daughter your way, perhaps Weeble's found it best to redirect her daughter her way.

I am not certain what your second sentence is addressing since my post made it clear I was talking about how I would personally handle it.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: weeblewobble on February 18, 2013, 11:01:03 AM
To defend my mom, there was no disgust or judgement on her face.  There was no disdainful curl to her lip or anything.  Her eyes just went wide.  It lasted a second or two and then she recovered and walked away very quickly with us.


An expression for a second wouldn't be noticed, but how do you know if you were redirecting your daughter's attention to the left if your mom didn't continue to do a look or a very distinct looking obviously to the left to avoid looking at the butt crack? 

Good point.  I didn't think of that.

Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 18, 2013, 11:18:24 AM
I agree that your mother should exercise better control of her face.  My daughter is 4 but in my experience the more I try to redirect her from something I want to shield her from the more likely she is to actually notice that something.  If this were me, I would have completely ignored it.  There are plenty of things I don't want to see every day - things that either disgust or offend me.  Rather than tell people they disgust or offend me, I ignore whatever it is that bothers me and the problem is solved. 

That doesn't mean the woman wasn't very rude.  She was.  I just think an adult(your mom) should be capable of not showing obvious disdain in a situation such as what you described.

There was no disdain showing on her mother's face, according to Weeble's post from 8:46 this morning.

And, while you might be able to redirect your daughter your way, perhaps Weeble's found it best to redirect her daughter her way.

I am not certain what your second sentence is addressing since my post made it clear I was talking about how I would personally handle it.

I was pointing out  how Weeble handled redirecting her daughter. I detected an implicit criticism in what you posted, and I apologize if I was wrong to detect it.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Zilla on February 18, 2013, 11:29:29 AM
I agree that your mother should exercise better control of her face.  My daughter is 4 but in my experience the more I try to redirect her from something I want to shield her from the more likely she is to actually notice that something.  If this were me, I would have completely ignored it.  There are plenty of things I don't want to see every day - things that either disgust or offend me.  Rather than tell people they disgust or offend me, I ignore whatever it is that bothers me and the problem is solved. 

That doesn't mean the woman wasn't very rude.  She was.  I just think an adult(your mom) should be capable of not showing obvious disdain in a situation such as what you described.

There was no disdain showing on her mother's face, according to Weeble's post from 8:46 this morning.

And, while you might be able to redirect your daughter your way, perhaps Weeble's found it best to redirect her daughter her way.

I am not certain what your second sentence is addressing since my post made it clear I was talking about how I would personally handle it.

I was pointing out  how Weeble handled redirecting her daughter. I detected an implicit criticism in what you posted, and I apologize if I was wrong to detect it.


I can see where Turtledove is coming from.  My daughters don't look at others and wouldn't have noticed the man.  They are usually too busy looking at what they can ask for on the shelves. :)  Especially in the chips aisle. lol So I too wouldn't have done anything to redirect and just ignore.


But the OP felt that she didn't want to take that chance and of course she was justifiable in her actions.  I didn't think there was any criticism.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: BeagleMommy on February 18, 2013, 11:47:07 AM
Weeble, I think you were fine.  Frankly, if this woman thinks that no wanting to see an exposed male posterior in public makes you immature (her "grow up" comment) what does she think verbally assaulting someone in the grocery aisle constitutes?
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: TurtleDove on February 18, 2013, 12:07:21 PM
I was pointing out  how Weeble handled redirecting her daughter. I detected an implicit criticism in what you posted, and I apologize if I was wrong to detect it.

There was no implicit criticism.  I meant to convey exactly what I said, which is how I would have handled it given my experience.  The OP asked for thoughts and those were mine. 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: JenJay on February 18, 2013, 12:10:43 PM
Weeble, I think you were fine.  Frankly, if this woman thinks that no wanting to see an exposed male posterior in public makes you immature (her "grow up" comment) what does she think verbally assaulting someone in the grocery aisle constitutes?

Exactly. I don't think it matters how shocked WW's mom's expression might have been, she had an immediate gut reaction and then kept walking. She didn't stop and stare, point, comment, etc. The other woman, however, decided to rant and curse. She also could have had an immediate gut reaction (being offended that two strangers were offended at her husband's bum), composed herself and moved on but she chose not to. I also don't think WW's reply to being cursed at was unreasonable. Maybe she should have ignored it, but she also could have cursed back. She didn't. It's okay to defend yourself even if you don't have to.

IMO CursingLady is at fault for the entire interaction.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Fleur on February 18, 2013, 12:46:51 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: TurtleDove on February 18, 2013, 12:52:52 PM


I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indencency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked desereve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.

I agree that a naked bottom in public is inappropriate, and I think most people would, but the problem is where to draw the line.  Not everyone will agree on what is appropriate and what is not, and it is very subjective depending on body type and clothing type and various other factors.  I think ignoring things that offend me works best for me, because unless I am forced to interact with a person regularly (for example, if my coworker always wears short shorts and a mesh half shirt in the office) the chances of my "disgust" actually leading to anything other than an uncomfortable moment are slim.   For me, walking past the man and ignoring it would mean the entire incident was over before it started.  Noticing it, focusing on it, and saying something to the man would not allow me to unsee it, would not likely cause him to change his behavior, and is very likely to create some sort of disturbance.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Zilla on February 18, 2013, 12:53:25 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.


No one said it wasn't disgusting and the gentleman's back was to them, so the "shocked" look would be a moot point.  Etiquette is being unfailing and unflinchingly polite. 
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Fleur on February 18, 2013, 12:58:28 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.


No one said it wasn't disgusting and the gentleman's back was to them, so the "shocked" look would be a moot point.  Etiquette is being unfailing and unflinchingly polite.

I don't see anything impolite in a shocked look. The fact that the man's classless partner was spoiling for a fight doesn't mean that the OP's mother was at all rude. I agree with TurtleDove that it isn't good to dwell on things outside our control, that is a good point. However, it is a pet peeve of mine that more and more people seem to think it is acceptable to be very skimpily/sloopily dressed in public. Frankly, I think that store managements should probably have stricter rules. I have seen some sights I would really rather not see. The fact that the man's partner saw fit to curse the OP is just the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Zilla on February 18, 2013, 01:03:36 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.


No one said it wasn't disgusting and the gentleman's back was to them, so the "shocked" look would be a moot point.  Etiquette is being unfailing and unflinchingly polite.

I don't see anything impolite in a shocked look. The fact that the man's classless partner was spoiling for a fight doesn't mean that the OP's mother was at all rude. I agree with TurtleDove that it isn't good to dwell on things outside our control, that is a good point. However, it is a pet peeve of mine that more and more people seem to think it is acceptable to be very skimpily/sloopily dressed in public. Frankly, I think that store managements should probably have stricter rules. I have seen some sights I would really rather not see. The fact that the man's partner saw fit to curse the OP is just the icing on the cake.


I guess we see it differently.  I wouldn't go around looking askance at people that doesn't meet my criteria.  I simply avert my eyes and do exactly that, not dwell on it.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: TootsNYC on February 18, 2013, 01:06:17 PM
You were fine.  The other person was low class and rude.  I love it when people use foul language so naturally.  Shows you who they are.

Was this really necessary?  There are many of us on this board who swear like sailors, but that doesn't mean that we can't be gracious and polite people.  Please don't insult us by implying that we're low class and rude.

Well then obviously, I wasn't talking about people like you.  I presume that since you are not rude and low class, you would not just randomly swear at a stranger for no reason. Would you?

And actually, even if you're all swearing around the bbq grill at friend's house, you are still showing who you are. Just as I show who I am when I drop big words here and there. I'm not necessarily "someone who likes to be snobbish about vocabulary"; I may just be "someone who is accustomed to using large words and having other people know what the mean."


As for the swearing lady in the OP: I bet you she didn't like that her partner was showing his butt either, but she didn't feel she could say anything. So she was defensive, and THAT is why she was so nasty.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: onyonryngs on February 18, 2013, 01:11:36 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.

Public shaming doesn't sound at all polite to me.  You ignore it & move on.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Fleur on February 18, 2013, 01:13:06 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.


No one said it wasn't disgusting and the gentleman's back was to them, so the "shocked" look would be a moot point.  Etiquette is being unfailing and unflinchingly polite.

I don't see anything impolite in a shocked look. The fact that the man's classless partner was spoiling for a fight doesn't mean that the OP's mother was at all rude. I agree with TurtleDove that it isn't good to dwell on things outside our control, that is a good point. However, it is a pet peeve of mine that more and more people seem to think it is acceptable to be very skimpily/sloopily dressed in public. Frankly, I think that store managements should probably have stricter rules. I have seen some sights I would really rather not see. The fact that the man's partner saw fit to curse the OP is just the icing on the cake.


I guess we see it differently.  I wouldn't go around looking askance at people that doesn't meet my criteria.  I simply avert my eyes and do exactly that, not dwell on it.

With people as classless as the people in the OP, even an averted gaze would be seen as an insult. I would actually not avert my gaze or react at all, probably, just for fear of engaging them. That doesn't make their behaviour anything other than disgusting and trashy, though.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Fleur on February 18, 2013, 01:14:57 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.

Public shaming doesn't sound at all polite to me.  You ignore it & move on.

I don't see anything wrong in publicly shaming obscence behaviour. Showing body parts is beyond the pale rude. I don't think one can be rude to people who do it. It might not be wise to engage them, though, but that is an issue of safety, not of etiquette.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Zilla on February 18, 2013, 01:22:12 PM
Rudeness met with rudeness is still being rude.  It has been said over and over on here.  But alas I can agree to disagree.  And by averting my gaze, I mean not looking down at him again to give a look to publicly shame him.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: onyonryngs on February 18, 2013, 01:25:01 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.

Public shaming doesn't sound at all polite to me.  You ignore it & move on.

I don't see anything wrong in publicly shaming obscence behaviour. Showing body parts is beyond the pale rude. I don't think one can be rude to people who do it. It might not be wise to engage them, though, but that is an issue of safety, not of etiquette.

Do you really think this guy did it purposefully?  I don't.  Retaliatory rudeness is not an approved action, especially when something was accidental.   Showing something you didn't mean to happens, you get over it.  The polite thing to do would be to either discreetly and nicely let the person know they're unknowingly showing too much, or move along.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Fleur on February 18, 2013, 01:31:08 PM

I am gobsmacked that anypne is saying that the OP's mother 'should have better control of her face'. I think that if more people acted visibly shocked at public indecency, there would be less of it. People who go around half naked deserve to be publicly shamed, end of story. A naked bottom in public is disgusting. End of story.

Public shaming doesn't sound at all polite to me.  You ignore it & move on.

I don't see anything wrong in publicly shaming obscence behaviour. Showing body parts is beyond the pale rude. I don't think one can be rude to people who do it. It might not be wise to engage them, though, but that is an issue of safety, not of etiquette.

Do you really think this guy did it purposefully?  I don't.  Retaliatory rudeness is not an approved action, especially when something was accidental.   Showing something you didn't mean to happens, you get over it.  The polite thing to do would be to either discreetly and nicely let the person know they're unknowingly showing too much, or move along.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I might be biased by some of my local supermarkets where I have seen far too much semi-nudity. I'm totally over it by now and wish that the staff would take a stronger line. These people wouldn't know 'nice' if, (pardon the pun) it bit them on the backside.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: JenJay on February 18, 2013, 01:35:17 PM
I'm surprised that so many people would be capable of controlling their instant-reaction facial expressions. I would certainly try not to make a scene if something shocked me but I guarantee you it's going to read on my face for a moment before I'm able to compose myself. Just how long a moment depends on the person and whatever it was they've seen, we all have different thresholds for what shocks us. If someone happens to be looking at me when that expression crosses my face, gets angry and yells at me, that makes the interaction my fault? I just don't get that logic at all.

We can't walk through life like robots. I think I have a reasonable expectation that I won't see nudity in the grocery store, and someone else should have a reasonable expectation that, if they choose to be partially nude in public, some people aren't going to enjoy it. If they want to rant, rave and curse because they could tell I internally went "eww!" for a second I think that's 100% their problem. I'm not going to be held accountable for unleashing someone's crazy by having a normal human reaction, especially if it only lasts a few seconds and I move away.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Fleur on February 18, 2013, 01:37:34 PM
I'm surprised that so many people would be capable of controlling their instant-reaction facial expressions. I would certainly try not to make a scene if something shocked me but I guarantee you it's going to read on my face for a moment before I'm able to compose myself. Just how long a moment depends on the person and whatever it was they've seen, we all have different thresholds for what shocks us. If someone happens to be looking at me when that expression crosses my face, gets angry and yells at me, that makes the interaction my fault? I just don't get that logic at all.

We can't walk through life like robots. I think I have a reasonable expectation that I won't see nudity in the grocery store, and someone else should have a reasonable expectation that, if they choose to be partially nude in public, some people aren't going to enjoy it. If they want to rant, rave and curse because they could tell I internally went "eww!" for a second I think that's 100% their problem. I'm not going to be held accountable for unleashing someone's crazy by having a normal human reaction, especially if it only lasts a few seconds and I move away.

POD.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Outdoor Girl on February 18, 2013, 01:40:17 PM
Do you really think this guy did it purposefully?

I'm not sure it was completely on purpose but it wasn't completely accidental, either.  Most people who realized they'd exposed their backside would fix it after moving one case of soda.  But this guy stayed in his crouched/bent over position, continuing to move several more cases, with his entire backside exposed.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Wordgeek on February 18, 2013, 02:01:30 PM
Keep the discussion focused, on-topic and constructive, please.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Queen of Clubs on February 18, 2013, 02:02:44 PM
I'm surprised that so many people would be capable of controlling their instant-reaction facial expressions. I would certainly try not to make a scene if something shocked me but I guarantee you it's going to read on my face for a moment before I'm able to compose myself. Just how long a moment depends on the person and whatever it was they've seen, we all have different thresholds for what shocks us. If someone happens to be looking at me when that expression crosses my face, gets angry and yells at me, that makes the interaction my fault? I just don't get that logic at all.

We can't walk through life like robots. I think I have a reasonable expectation that I won't see nudity in the grocery store, and someone else should have a reasonable expectation that, if they choose to be partially nude in public, some people aren't going to enjoy it. If they want to rant, rave and curse because they could tell I internally went "eww!" for a second I think that's 100% their problem. I'm not going to be held accountable for unleashing someone's crazy by having a normal human reaction, especially if it only lasts a few seconds and I move away.

I agree with this so much.  I don't think it's public shaming or retaliatory rudeness if I look shocked at something that's shocking or appalled at something that's appalling.  It would be veering into public shaming if I stood and gawped for a long while or loudly pointed out how the man was (hopefully, accidentally) exposing himself, but looking away and moving on is the best, most polite, thing I can do.

If the man was aware that he was exposing his entire rear (and, like others, I'm wondering how he couldn't know), then he was rude to not fix his clothes.  The woman was rude regardless.


Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: wolfie on February 18, 2013, 02:14:08 PM
I'm surprised that so many people would be capable of controlling their instant-reaction facial expressions. I would certainly try not to make a scene if something shocked me but I guarantee you it's going to read on my face for a moment before I'm able to compose myself. Just how long a moment depends on the person and whatever it was they've seen, we all have different thresholds for what shocks us. If someone happens to be looking at me when that expression crosses my face, gets angry and yells at me, that makes the interaction my fault? I just don't get that logic at all.

We can't walk through life like robots. I think I have a reasonable expectation that I won't see nudity in the grocery store, and someone else should have a reasonable expectation that, if they choose to be partially nude in public, some people aren't going to enjoy it. If they want to rant, rave and curse because they could tell I internally went "eww!" for a second I think that's 100% their problem. I'm not going to be held accountable for unleashing someone's crazy by having a normal human reaction, especially if it only lasts a few seconds and I move away.

I totally agree! It's great that so many people have such tight control over their expressions, but I am not one of them. I turn a corner and see someone exposed I am going to have an expression of shock. I wouldn't say anything and I would try to hurry past them, but I refuse to consider myself rude because my eyes popped or my mouth dropped.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: mmswm on February 18, 2013, 04:10:53 PM
I wanted to address why I felt that alerting management would have been appropriate.  I feel that since the woman reacted aggressively to a momentary shocked look and averted gazes, the potential for an even more aggressive reaction towards people who were not as polite and composed as the OP is within the realm of possibility. If there's potential for a violent confrontation, then management needs to know so they can be proactive about a potentially explosive situation. I don't think it would be necessary or  appropriate to demand that the customers be kicked out, but I do think management should know that the potential exists so that they can keep and eye out and assess the situation themselves and make a fully informed decision should something worse than a few shouted curse words occur.
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Jaelle on February 18, 2013, 04:48:36 PM
I'm surprised that so many people would be capable of controlling their instant-reaction facial expressions. I would certainly try not to make a scene if something shocked me but I guarantee you it's going to read on my face for a moment before I'm able to compose myself. Just how long a moment depends on the person and whatever it was they've seen, we all have different thresholds for what shocks us. If someone happens to be looking at me when that expression crosses my face, gets angry and yells at me, that makes the interaction my fault? I just don't get that logic at all.

We can't walk through life like robots. I think I have a reasonable expectation that I won't see nudity in the grocery store, and someone else should have a reasonable expectation that, if they choose to be partially nude in public, some people aren't going to enjoy it. If they want to rant, rave and curse because they could tell I internally went "eww!" for a second I think that's 100% their problem. I'm not going to be held accountable for unleashing someone's crazy by having a normal human reaction, especially if it only lasts a few seconds and I move away.

I agree with this so much.  I don't think it's public shaming or retaliatory rudeness if I look shocked at something that's shocking or appalled at something that's appalling.  It would be veering into public shaming if I stood and gawped for a long while or loudly pointed out how the man was (hopefully, accidentally) exposing himself, but looking away and moving on is the best, most polite, thing I can do.

If the man was aware that he was exposing his entire rear (and, like others, I'm wondering how he couldn't know), then he was rude to not fix his clothes.  The woman was rude regardless.

I also agree, completely. Having a shocked expression toward something that is, by most standards, shocking is simply a natural consequence.

I also agree that there is no way he wasn't aware of his "wardrobe malfunction."
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 18, 2013, 05:46:08 PM
I wanted to address why I felt that alerting management would have been appropriate.  I feel that since the woman reacted aggressively to a momentary shocked look and averted gazes, the potential for an even more aggressive reaction towards people who were not as polite and composed as the OP is within the realm of possibility. If there's potential for a violent confrontation, then management needs to know so they can be proactive about a potentially explosive situation. I don't think it would be necessary or  appropriate to demand that the customers be kicked out, but I do think management should know that the potential exists so that they can keep and eye out and assess the situation themselves and make a fully informed decision should something worse than a few shouted curse words occur.

That's what I was thinking. Also, if he's letting the moon shine in the soda section, who knows how many others sections will get the light of the silvery moon?
Title: Re: Sparing embarrassment vs. What I consider appropriate parenting.
Post by: Wordgeek on February 18, 2013, 05:53:25 PM
The discussion doesn't seem to be constructive (=useful) so, thread closed.