Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: LilacGirl1983 on February 27, 2013, 02:59:03 PM

Title: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LilacGirl1983 on February 27, 2013, 02:59:03 PM
Hey ladies another question..for those who want to know the ettiquete question right away its : How do I politely and firmly tell the grandparents in law that its our decision to bring our child to where we want to bring them? And no we aren't going to delay it.

BG: We are going to take our daughter who will be 6 and our son who will be just turning 1 to Orlando Florida for a 2 week vacation...well grandparents found out and pretty much said I was crazy and we should focus on getting a house and wait a couple more years to go to Disney...Hubby told grandpa the baby will be 1 and he had an issue with that. He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait. I got all the reasons we shouldn't do it and why It was crazy/silly...
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Veronica on February 27, 2013, 03:11:16 PM
Well, to be honest, I can kind of see their point.  A one year old will not enjoy DisneyWorld.  We live an hour from there and we've decided to wait to spend the money on visiting a park when DS turns 3. 

It costs about $5,000 to spend 2 weeks at Disney and I can see why they'd try to encourage you to wait until your son can really enjoy it and have memories of it.   Of course it's your money and you have final say. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: SassafrasT on February 27, 2013, 03:18:05 PM
We took our daughter when she was 1 and our son was 4.  One is actually a perfect age to take a child to Disney.  They are content in the stroller and can ride most rides with you.  We had a good time.  If you want to take a one year old then take them.  People say, oh they are too young to remember anything, and it's true, but you and your DH are going to remember taking them and how much fun they had.

It's really none of the grandparent's business where you take your child.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: twiggy on February 27, 2013, 03:21:08 PM
Well, to be honest, I can kind of see their point.  A one year old will not enjoy DisneyWorld.  We live an hour from there and we've decided to wait to spend the money on visiting a park when DS turns 3. 

It costs about $5,000 to spend 2 weeks at Disney and I can see why they'd try to encourage you to wait until your son can really enjoy it and have memories of it.   Of course it's your money and you have final say. 

But the 6yo will enjoy it. Should she have to stay home because Baby won't get as much out of it?

If LilacGirl wants to use her money to build a caravan of neon green Popemobiles, it's up to her and her DH. Grandparents don't get a say in how an adult couple spends the money that they earn. In OP's shoes, I would simply stop telling GPIL things. Don't mention that Baby will be one. Don't bring up Disney again. If GFIL tries to bring it up again, I recommend the copy and paste (I know there's an ehell phrase, but I don't remember it.) method;

GFIL: Baby won't even remember it
LG: So you've said, but our vacation plans are not up for discussion
GFIL: You need to save for a house
LG: So you've said, but our vacation plans are not up for discussion
GFIL: It's a waste of money
LG: So you've said, but our vacation plans are not up for discussion
GFIL: If you go to Disney, the mouse will kidnap the baby and force him into slave labor on the Small World ride
LG: So you've said, but our vacation plans are not up for discussion

though I'm sure there's a better phrase. That's just what I could come up with off the top of my head.

Get DH in agreement and stop the info train. What GFIL doesn't know, can't annoy you :)
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Sharnita on February 27, 2013, 03:26:04 PM
Do you get any direct or indirect financial help from them?  Money, free child care, anything else?  Have they loaned you money in the past and if so have you repaid it?  You mentioned dad wanting to get you a house, where do you live now and do they have any connection to your housing?

I think that if you want to tell them that it isn't their business I think that is reasonable - if there is no way it is their business.  However, if they any connection to your financial  situation then it would be disingenuous to say that.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Roe on February 27, 2013, 03:28:03 PM
We celebrated my son's first birthday at Disney!  It's a perfect age to visit the parks but you have to do it "right" for your family.  (our family decided to take it slow and instead of rushing from one ride to another, we decided to enjoy a handful of things and spend more time at the resort)

Disney also has Baby Centers where I would go with my son when he needed a quiet place to take a quick nap. 

My boys are all older now and we still enjoy Disney but there's nothing like seeing Disney through the eyes of a one year old. (or two year old)  :)

Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: SiotehCat on February 27, 2013, 03:28:31 PM
Do you get any direct or indirect financial help from them?  Money, free child care, anything else?  Have they loaned you money in the past and if so have you repaid it?  You mentioned dad wanting to get you a house, where do you live now and do they have any connection to your housing?

I think that if you want to tell them that it isn't their business I think that is reasonable - if there is no way it is their business.  However, if they any connection to your financial  situation then it would be disingenuous to say that.

I completely agree with this.

I do think that if they help you financially, then they should have some say. If that is the case, I can't fault them for saying something.

However, if that is not the case, then I would refuse to discuss vacation plans with them.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: artk2002 on February 27, 2013, 03:28:38 PM
Use one of the stock phrases: "How kind of you to take an interest." "We'll take that under advisement." Twiggy's "So you've said, but our vacation plans are not up for discussion" is excellent. Using one phrase consistently (the "Toots Special") is very effective.

What you don't want to do is JADE (apologies to the people who hate that as being "trendy." It's accurate.) That is Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. Every reason you state gives them two things: First, it tells them that their opinion matters in this -- that they actually have a say in what you do. Second, it gives them something to refute, and refute it they will. Every response is just the lead-in to further discussion.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Slartibartfast on February 27, 2013, 03:28:56 PM
You could point out that kids 2 and under are FREE!  That's a huge savings, and a big part of the reason we're planning on Disney next fall (when Babybartfast will be 6 and Bittybartfast will be 2.5).  Yes, Bittybartfast won't really remember it, but if we wait until she's four or five, Babybartfast will be too old to enjoy the park in the same way.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Kaypeep on February 27, 2013, 03:30:16 PM
Are these the same grandparents who insist you send your 5 year old DD to them to camp for a week with their other grandchildren?  These people sounds quite interesting and opinionated.

I like the Toots Special suggestion of repeating the same line to every comment or question.  Only I'd add "Thanks for your unsolicited opinion, but our vacation plans are not up for discussion."
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Moray on February 27, 2013, 03:31:27 PM
Hey ladies another question..for those who want to know the ettiquete question right away its : How do I politely and firmly tell the grandparents in law that its our decision to bring our child to where we want to bring them? And no we aren't going to delay it.

BG: We are going to take our daughter who will be 6 and our son who will be just turning 1 to Orlando Florida for a 2 week vacation...well grandparents found out and pretty much said I was crazy and we should focus on getting a house and wait a couple more years to go to Disney...Hubby told grandpa the baby will be 1 and he had an issue with that. He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait. I got all the reasons we shouldn't do it and why It was crazy/silly...

The bolded sounds like more of their primary concern. They sound as though they're trying to steer you towards something with longer-lasting "value", like a house now, and maybe an extended Disney vacation when both your children are old enough to fully appreciate the park.

Obviously it's your money to spend as you like, but I'd try to remember that they're coming from a place of love. Reassure them that you're budgeting appropriately for your household needs and then don't discuss it further.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: *inviteseller on February 27, 2013, 03:32:53 PM
Do you live with them, or do they support you guys to help keep a roof over your head?  If not they have no say as to when you, the parents, choose to take your kids to Disney.  If you wait till the 1 yr old is old enough , say 5, then you 6 yr old will be getting too old for the magic.  Just keep telling them it is not up for debate. 

Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: FoxPaws on February 27, 2013, 03:35:09 PM
People say, oh they are too young to remember anything, and it's true, but you and your DH are going to remember taking them and how much fun they had.

This is the perfect answer:

GPIL: The baby won't remember a thing!
You: Yes, but we will!
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Moray on February 27, 2013, 03:36:32 PM
OP, are your folks helping you make ends meet? I think that might inform my answer.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Two Ravens on February 27, 2013, 03:37:00 PM
OP, you have posted before about your financial troubles, correct? Have they been completely resolved? A two week vacation at Disney is a huge splurge, even for the most comfortable families of four. Otherwise, I can understand your family's concern, especially with a new baby coming....
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: TootsNYC on February 27, 2013, 03:54:50 PM
People say, oh they are too young to remember anything, and it's true, but you and your DH are going to remember taking them and how much fun they had.

This is the perfect answer:

GPIL: The baby won't remember a thing!
You: Yes, but we will!

Plus, one of your most important jobs as a parent is NOT buying a house but *creating memories for and with your children.*

Going now means your 6yo will get to see the 1yo enjoy Disney, too. Not just will the parents remember the 1yo enjoying Disney, but the big brother/sister will as well.

And the 1yo will remember looking at the picture of Disney and hearing the stories of what he/she did, and which parts he/she enjoyed.

Memories are more important than houses--they last longer.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: onyonryngs on February 27, 2013, 04:01:19 PM
I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: NyaChan on February 27, 2013, 04:08:55 PM
I don't think it matters whether or not we can see his point. No one, including FIL, was asked for their opinion on whether they should go on this trip. As adults and parents, their financial and vacation plans are not subject to FIL's approval absent a circumstance where he is helping out with money.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: SiotehCat on February 27, 2013, 04:09:49 PM
I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.

Why wouldn't the OP be able to ride any rides?
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: onyonryngs on February 27, 2013, 04:11:03 PM
I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.

Why wouldn't the OP be able to ride any rides?

It's not exactly a good idea to ride roller coasters when you're having a difficult pregnancy.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LadyR on February 27, 2013, 04:12:23 PM
We're getting this a bit as well as we plan in going in fall 2013, right before my DS' 3rd birthday. The baby will be 15 months at the time.

We are staying a week and my bff is going with us, so costs will be fairly reasonable as both our children will be under 3. We won't be spending more than we would for any other vacation for the four of us.  I am a huge Disney fanatic and have always wanted to go. My husband and I agree that we'll go later, when the kids are older, but this trip will be for us and we'll love seeing DS experience the magic ad he'll be at an age where it is all so real to him and the honestly, at his age now, he'd love it, so I'm sure our baby will too.

I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.

I believe the OP is talking about going next year, once the baby is here and will be a year old and she is no longer pregnant. And from what I understand there are a lot of rides small children can go on at Disney.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: SiotehCat on February 27, 2013, 04:15:41 PM
I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.

Why wouldn't the OP be able to ride any rides?

It's not exactly a good idea to ride roller coasters when you're having a difficult pregnancy.

The OP said that the baby will be 1 and her oldest child will be 6.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: onyonryngs on February 27, 2013, 04:18:20 PM
I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.

I believe the OP is talking about going next year, once the baby is here and will be a year old and she is no longer pregnant. And from what I understand there are a lot of rides small children can go on at Disney.

The way the post was written it seemed that the trip was coming up soon.  More than a year away then?  Well, that certainly gives FIL a long time to discuss this situation.  I would leave him out of plans in the future - at least until they've already been made.    I would just tell him that your family decisions are yours and maybe have your DH chat with him about it.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Deetee on February 27, 2013, 04:19:29 PM
I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.

Doesn't matter (also not the case as the trip is next year) Adults don't get to tell other adults what they are supposed to do with their money and what activities they are allowed to enjoy.

(As other posters have said, advice is different if the parents are financially supporting the family)
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LilacGirl1983 on February 27, 2013, 04:22:34 PM
Do you get any direct or indirect financial help from them?  Money, free child care, anything else?  Have they loaned you money in the past and if so have you repaid it?  You mentioned dad wanting to get you a house, where do you live now and do they have any connection to your housing?

I think that if you want to tell them that it isn't their business I think that is reasonable - if there is no way it is their business.  However, if they any connection to your financial  situation then it would be disingenuous to say that.

We do not get any money from them. They don't provide child care on a regular basis..usually its when they want to take our 6 year old..but they do watch her occasionally for doctor appointments if they can't we just bring her with. If we relied on them I could see that but we don't we are self sufficient and our finances are none of their business..I didn't mention it to the GIL my husband did..I just had to deal with the fall out. The trip will be in 2014..so Not this October but the following one. We have been saving up and paying off things as we need..its been tough but we started saving almost a year ago for 3 years in advance and cut back most of the extra spending..The baby is due June 2013..I hope this helps. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Sharnita on February 27, 2013, 04:25:13 PM
Hmm, maybe since DH felt the need to tell you could say, "Oh, I 'm sure DH would be happy to tell you all about it"
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: *inviteseller on February 27, 2013, 04:31:30 PM
Tell DH to put a stop to this. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: WillyNilly on February 27, 2013, 04:38:48 PM
Here's the thing: your FIL only knows about your plans because you (and/or DH) told him about your plans.  Presumably as a conversation topic.  And he, as an adult, is absolutely allowed to participate in conversations that are brought up to him.  You do not get to just monolog at him and expect him to nod and agree to everything.  You just don't, that not how humanity and conversation work.

You don't have to like his opinions, or agree to his ideas, but if you bring up a topic, he is actually allowed to have an opposing idea, and he's allowed to carry on the conversation mentioning his ideas.  You can then change the topic if you want, but its really quite unreasonable to expect him to never voice disagreement or a counter idea when you bring something up.  Especially not something as extravagant as a 2 week vacation!

So if you and your FIL don't agree on this trip, don't discuss it with him, or anything related to the trip with him (so no lamenting over not being able to afford other things because all your money is going towards the trip, for example). And if he brings it up again, beandip or if he presses simply say "its really not up for discussion" and then beandip.

But don't think you get to just go around talking about this trip to your FIL but that he's not allowed to have an opinion, because that's unreasonable.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LadyR on February 27, 2013, 04:40:25 PM
Here's the thing: your FIL only knows about your plans because you told him about your plans.  Presumably as a conversation topic.  And he, as an adult, is absolutely allowed to participate in conversations that are brought up to him.  You do not get to just monolog at him and expect him to nod and agree to everything.  You just don't, that not how humanity and conversation work.

You don't have to like his opinions, or agree to his ideas, but if you bring up a topic, he is actually allowed to have an opposing idea, and he's allowed to carry on the conversation mentioning his ideas.  You can then change the topic if you want, but its really quite unreasonable to expect him to never voice disagreement or a counter idea when you bring something up.  Especially not something as extravagant as a 2 week vacation!

So if you and your FIL don't agree on this trip, don't discuss it with him, or anything related to the trip with him (so no lamenting over not being able to afford other things because all your money is going towards the trip, for example). And if he brings it up again, beandip or if he presses simply say "its really not up for discussion" and then beandip.

But don't think you get to just go around talking about this trip to your FIL but that he's not allowed to have an opinion, because that's unreasonable.

She mentioned that she didn't bring it up to her FIL, her DH did and that her FIL has brought it up to *her* since then, so your advice doesn't really fit. I would suggest changing the subject though.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Knitterly on February 27, 2013, 04:41:28 PM
Do you get any direct or indirect financial help from them?  Money, free child care, anything else?  Have they loaned you money in the past and if so have you repaid it?  You mentioned dad wanting to get you a house, where do you live now and do they have any connection to your housing?

I think that if you want to tell them that it isn't their business I think that is reasonable - if there is no way it is their business.  However, if they any connection to your financial  situation then it would be disingenuous to say that.

We do not get any money from them. They don't provide child care on a regular basis..usually its when they want to take our 6 year old..but they do watch her occasionally for doctor appointments if they can't we just bring her with. If we relied on them I could see that but we don't we are self sufficient and our finances are none of their business..I didn't mention it to the GIL my husband did..I just had to deal with the fall out. The trip will be in 2014..so Not this October but the following one. We have been saving up and paying off things as we need..its been tough but we started saving almost a year ago for 3 years in advance and cut back most of the extra spending..The baby is due June 2013..I hope this helps.

It does, but you should not have to justify such a trip.  Their opinion is entirely unsolicited.

I really like Twiggy's response.
"So you've said, but our vacation plans are not up for discussion."

You've obviously put a lot of thought and planning into this.  Your older son will thoroughly enjoy it and will enjoy seeing the baby enjoy it, too.

It's not about the baby remembering it, it's about the wonderful time you will spend as a family and the memories and pictures that you will have.  The baby won't remember the first picture with Santa, either.  Or many of the other special things that will happen early on.  Doesn't make them any less special!

Incidentally, Mr K was 9 when he want to Disneyworld.  He hardly remembers it at all.  But there are lots of pictures and his lack of clear memory doesn't mean he didn't have fun. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: WillyNilly on February 27, 2013, 04:45:09 PM
Here's the thing: your FIL only knows about your plans because you told him about your plans.  Presumably as a conversation topic.  And he, as an adult, is absolutely allowed to participate in conversations that are brought up to him.  You do not get to just monolog at him and expect him to nod and agree to everything.  You just don't, that not how humanity and conversation work.

You don't have to like his opinions, or agree to his ideas, but if you bring up a topic, he is actually allowed to have an opposing idea, and he's allowed to carry on the conversation mentioning his ideas.  You can then change the topic if you want, but its really quite unreasonable to expect him to never voice disagreement or a counter idea when you bring something up.  Especially not something as extravagant as a 2 week vacation!

So if you and your FIL don't agree on this trip, don't discuss it with him, or anything related to the trip with him (so no lamenting over not being able to afford other things because all your money is going towards the trip, for example). And if he brings it up again, beandip or if he presses simply say "its really not up for discussion" and then beandip.

But don't think you get to just go around talking about this trip to your FIL but that he's not allowed to have an opinion, because that's unreasonable.

She mentioned that she didn't bring it up to her FIL, her DH did and that her FIL has brought it up to *her* since then, so your advice doesn't really fit. I would suggest changing the subject though.

She posted at the same time.  I did edit my post to reflect that.
But my advice still stands - the topic was brought up to the grandparents, OP's DH told them about it.  So the grandparents are allowed to comment on it. Thats how communication works: person A says Thing X to persons B & C.  B &C then respond. Often the topic will be revisited and further comments will be made.

I mean if they mentioned they were sending their child to school, would the grandparents not get to respond a few days later, or bring up the topic ever again?  Of course they would, its an on-going topic.  A 2 week vacation 18 months from now is generally presented as an on-going conversation topic, not a one off mention like "orange juice is on sale this week".
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: sammycat on February 27, 2013, 04:46:01 PM
We do not get any money from them. They don't provide child care on a regular basis..usually its when they want to take our 6 year old..but they do watch her occasionally for doctor appointments if they can't we just bring her with. If we relied on them I could see that but we don't we are self sufficient and our finances are none of their business..I didn't mention it to the GIL my husband did..I just had to deal with the fall out. The trip will be in 2014..so Not this October but the following one. We have been saving up and paying off things as we need..its been tough but we started saving almost a year ago for 3 years in advance and cut back most of the extra spending..The baby is due June 2013..I hope this helps.

Then neither the grandparents nor anyone else have any 'right' to tell you what do - whether it's how you spend your money or the ages your kids visit Disney.  Sure, the 1 year old may not remember any of it, but the 6 year old will, and isn't s/he entitled to any fun/memories?  Does s/he have to wait till their younger sibling is old enough to enjoy things before they're allowed to do something fun?  If that's the way the grandparents are thinking then they're out of their minds.

We took older DS on holiday to the US from Australia wen he was 17-18 months olds, and yes, it included it a trip to Disneyland, as I LOVE the place. Does he remember it? No.  But DH and I can still remember the fun we had taking him (not just to Disneyland but to all the other cities on that trip), and the memories will stay with us forever (of DS being terrified of the characters; didn't quite fit into my preconceived fantasies, but it makes for a funny story, and we were able to chuckle at the contrast on a later visit when he was older   :D).

Ignore the grandparents, and anyone else who may make snide remarks about the trip, and have a  great time!  :D
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Auntie Mame on February 27, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
I can kind of see your FIL's point.  The youngest is 1 and you're due in early June.  Neither one of you will be able to ride any rides.  It seem that the only your DH and the 6 year old are going to get much fun out of the trip.

So what?  Their money = their choice = their business. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: EllenS on February 27, 2013, 05:29:44 PM
grandparents found out and pretty much said I was crazy and we should focus on getting a house and wait a couple more years to go to Disney...Hubby told grandpa the baby will be 1 and he had an issue with that. He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait. I got all the reasons we shouldn't do it and why It was crazy/silly...

Several pp's point out that your inlaws have no right to tell you what to do, or control you.  However, I assume these are people you value and whom you would like to continue having a good relationship with.  The way you worded your initial post, it sounded less like giving orders, and more like giving advice.  Depending on your relationship, it might or might not be appropriate for your in-laws to try to give you advice.  You are certainly under no obligation to take it. 

I have known situations where someone who had always been a trusted advisor, or had repeatedly listened to someone's woes and difficulties, tried to offer reasonable advice and was villified as being "controlling" because they did not say what the advice-asker wanted to hear.  That is more a relational issue than an etiquette one. 

However, to call you "crazy" or "silly" is both rude, and very poor tactics if his intention was to win you over to his point of view.  Ultimately you need not respond or explain in any way.  You need not recite the same answer over and over - if you are going to do that, you might as well just ask him to leave, or walk away yourself (depending on where you are).  You have already declared the conversation over and there's no need to be annoying just to try to prove a point.

Your inlaws may opinionated, but your father in law's opinion was neither off-the-wall nor destructive - it sounds like he is trying to look out for your interests, even if he is pushy.  If this is an isolated incident, I don't think it warrants blowing up the relationship or freezing them out.  If you want to reassure him that you are planning this carefully and are managing your finances, that might be a good step in your relationship.  However, you can also just declare the subject closed, "agree to disagree" and not talk about it anymore.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: TootsNYC on February 27, 2013, 05:41:00 PM
I agree with WillyNilly about how conversations work. 

But I do think that Grandpa broke the "rules" when he pursued the topic of conversation too long and when he made his displeasure too firmly known. At that point it's not "conversation" anymore; it's haranguing.

And it's too bad to have discovered that you can't share conversations about this exciting trip with them because Grandpa can't keep his opinions from becoming intrusive.

That might be the thing to say: "When you keep on this topic, it makes us very hesitant to share anything with you. That's too bad. I wish you'd drop it."

And I agree to a large degree with ElllenS.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: MommyPenguin on February 27, 2013, 05:44:22 PM
We went to Disneyworld when my oldest was just under 3 (I think it was about a month or two before her birthday) and my second was 1.  Honestly, I found a 1-year-old at Disneyworld to be somewhat awful.  She wasn't old enough to enjoy any of the rides or really do any activities, but she was old enough not to be easily able to nap while we walked around and to be *heavy*.  She wouldn't really sleep in her stroller, only in her baby carrier, which was hot and heavy.  It was perfect for my older daughter, though.  She was just at the age to adore princesses, and yet still young enough to be free.  My husband was free due to a military promotion, too, so we only had to pay for me.  We were in Alabama, so it was a short-ish trip (versus from New England) and we could drive instead off fly.  So even though it was less than fun with the 1-year-old, I was overall glad we went.  And with a 6-year-old?  I'd definitely want to go now, not wait until the oldest is too old to really enjoy the enchantment, if it's possible.  Maybe you'll be able to go again with the 1-year-old someday when he's 6 or so.  He'll enjoy the enchantment and the oldest will be able to enjoy the wild rides.  And furthermore, it *is* your decision, either way.  I think it's okay for the grandparents to point out the possible issues, but I think they need to respect you when you say that you've decided to go and you've taken these issues into account but you still think it's worth going.  After that, just become a broken record with a phrase that cuts the conversation off.  Or bean dip.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on February 27, 2013, 06:18:52 PM
I don't think that the OP should have to refrain from telling her IL's what the family vacation plans are to avoid being told what decisions her family should make.  Other adults tell me things all the time...about vacations, child decisions, etc, that I might not necessarily think is the greatest idea, but that doesn't make it appropriate for me to insert my opinion.  In other words, the OP isn't at "fault" for unsolicited advice because she happened to mention that she's going to Disney World.  Why should that be a secret, and why does that revelation mean the IL's have any say in what they do?

Practically speaking, taking a 1 year old to Disney is just fine.  The 1 year old gets in free, can still ride some of the rides, and will have a lot of fun just seeing the colors, characters and hearing music.  Travel expenses for a 1 year old are also minimal additional cost (in comparison to arranging alternate childcare), they are easy to push around in a stroller, and I don't understand why the 6 year old should have to wait until all her siblings are conisidered "old enough" to enjoy it before she can go. 

As for your FIL, I don't necessarily think he has a horrible point  when he suggests that maybe the money could be spend somewhere else immediately...and I think there are even ways to make the suggestion that aren't basically telling you what to do with your time.  And while I don't know exactly how he broached the subject with you, the point is, you don't want his advice and aren't planning on following it.  So, what you say is something like "I can understand where you are coming from, but this vacation is a decision we have made as a family.  We have no problem with taking this trip now and know that all four of us will have a wonderful time and great memories."  He shouldn't be bringing this up again.  And if he continues to badger you about it, then he's wrong.  Not you.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on February 27, 2013, 06:47:38 PM
Here's the thing: your FIL only knows about your plans because you told him about your plans.  Presumably as a conversation topic.  And he, as an adult, is absolutely allowed to participate in conversations that are brought up to him.  You do not get to just monolog at him and expect him to nod and agree to everything.  You just don't, that not how humanity and conversation work.

You don't have to like his opinions, or agree to his ideas, but if you bring up a topic, he is actually allowed to have an opposing idea, and he's allowed to carry on the conversation mentioning his ideas.  You can then change the topic if you want, but its really quite unreasonable to expect him to never voice disagreement or a counter idea when you bring something up.  Especially not something as extravagant as a 2 week vacation!

So if you and your FIL don't agree on this trip, don't discuss it with him, or anything related to the trip with him (so no lamenting over not being able to afford other things because all your money is going towards the trip, for example). And if he brings it up again, beandip or if he presses simply say "its really not up for discussion" and then beandip.

But don't think you get to just go around talking about this trip to your FIL but that he's not allowed to have an opinion, because that's unreasonable.

She mentioned that she didn't bring it up to her FIL, her DH did and that her FIL has brought it up to *her* since then, so your advice doesn't really fit. I would suggest changing the subject though.

She posted at the same time.  I did edit my post to reflect that.
But my advice still stands - the topic was brought up to the grandparents, OP's DH told them about it.  So the grandparents are allowed to comment on it. Thats how communication works: person A says Thing X to persons B & C.  B &C then respond. Often the topic will be revisited and further comments will be made.

I mean if they mentioned they were sending their child to school, would the grandparents not get to respond a few days later, or bring up the topic ever again?  Of course they would, its an on-going topic.  A 2 week vacation 18 months from now is generally presented as an on-going conversation topic, not a one off mention like "orange juice is on sale this week".

But an "ongoing conversation" still doesn't make it appropriate for the IL's to suggest how the OP and her DH choose to spend their money or their family time.  And the fact that FIL went to the OP after the DH told him about the vacation to tell her what to do, is just...well, not right.  My sister has six kids in a one income family.  They take family vacations all the time that I often wonder how they can afford, but her telling me about them, or me knowing about them, doesn't mean that I can pry into her finances and make suggestions or even suggest that the younger kids wouldn't enjoy a family vacation (By FIL's logic, the poor 16 year old still wouldn't be able to go to Disney with the family as he's had younger siblings under two for pretty much his whole life). 
It's one thing if the OP and her DH are constantly complaining about not being able to afford a house, or if they were dependant on the IL's for money, etc...but they aren't.  So, the FIL suggesting that they put the money towards a house instead is overstepping. 

And while I do think there are ways for him to share his opinion that aren't rude or overstepping, going to the OP in the aftermath of a conversation he had with her DH is not one of them. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Sharnita on February 27, 2013, 06:57:42 PM
yeah, various people might inform me of vacations and purchases that seem like a waste to me.  I am sure some have felt the same about some of mine over the years. It isn'tmy job to critique the decision. If I can't give it ringing endorsements I should probably limit it to "Oh, that sounds interesting"
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: m2kbug on February 27, 2013, 07:06:30 PM
Hey ladies another question..for those who want to know the ettiquete question right away its : How do I politely and firmly tell the grandparents in law that its our decision to bring our child to where we want to bring them? And no we aren't going to delay it.

BG: We are going to take our daughter who will be 6 and our son who will be just turning 1 to Orlando Florida for a 2 week vacation...well grandparents found out and pretty much said I was crazy and we should focus on getting a house and wait a couple more years to go to Disney...Hubby told grandpa the baby will be 1 and he had an issue with that. He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait. I got all the reasons we shouldn't do it and why It was crazy/silly...

Honestly, I don't see the purpose of taking a 1-year-old to Disney.  They won't remember any of it and probably can't participate in most of the rides.  Your 6-year-old is the perfect age and will have a blast.  With such an age gap, there's not much you can do on the timing.  You could wait one or two years, but the little one will still be very little.  I, personally, would wait until the youngest was older, but this is your money and your plan, and I really don't have much say in the matter....and neither does your father-in-law.  I don't know what I would say, but I think I would just say this is what we are planning and change the subject.  "Well, we're going.  I heard you got two inches of snow."  With my mom or dad, I can be more blunt, but notsomuch with the in-laws.  I think I would just be vague and avoid the subject all together as much as possible. 

It seems like you're catering to the older child and the magic of Disney anyway, and hopefully you can do another trip when your youngest child is older.  If your FIL thinks you're nuts, that's all him.  Just continue as normal and avoid the unsolicited advice as best as possible.  You need to keep in mind in YOUR head that you are in the right and this is YOUR decision.  If these were his children, he might make different choices.  Your choices are not wrong, just different.  He made his choices while raising his children, now it's your turn. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: sparksals on February 27, 2013, 08:37:35 PM
Well, to be honest, I can kind of see their point.  A one year old will not enjoy DisneyWorld.  We live an hour from there and we've decided to wait to spend the money on visiting a park when DS turns 3. 

It costs about $5,000 to spend 2 weeks at Disney and I can see why they'd try to encourage you to wait until your son can really enjoy it and have memories of it.   Of course it's your money and you have final say.

Since when is it their business?  This is not their place at all.  The advice is obviously unwelcome to rhe OP.

Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: EllenS on February 27, 2013, 08:48:28 PM
I think we have to make a distinction between close family relationships and strangers.  Obviously, it is never OK for strangers or acquaintances to offer opinions on our lives.

In a close and warm family there is leeway for people to "speak into" each other's lives -this is part of relational intimacy.  However, that kind of intimacy has to be earned with trust and respect.  In my own family, I call my FIL "dad" just like my DH does, and if he was concerned that we were doing something foolish, he would probably go to DH, but he might also come to me.  Even if I disagreed with him, I would not think he was out of line for broaching the subject.

It's just hard to make blanket statements without knowing the people involved.  Obviously the conversation was annoying to the OP, but that does not mean that the father in law was necessarily doing wrong by talking about it.  It just depends on the relationship.

However, as I said before, calling people "silly" or "crazy" is definitely rude, and there may indeed be a lack of respect/trust going on.  That's a different situation.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: GrammarNerd on February 27, 2013, 09:13:55 PM
The first thing that occurred to me was that FIL is against it so much b/c maybe FIL/MIL have it in the back of their minds that THEY want to take your kids to Disney somewhere down the line, so they don't want you to do it.  I mean, how many times do you hear about GPs that take their GKids on a big Disney trip? (Well, I've heard of a bunch.)  And another poster brought up the previous post of yours about them taking your DD away for a week, so given that, it doesn't seem like it could totally be out of the realm of possibility.

I could be way off base, but given the other situation, I just wanted to throw this out there.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: lakey on February 27, 2013, 09:24:38 PM
Just politely say, we'll think about your concerns, then make your own choice. Regarding his comment about getting a house first, I'm assuming that is related to finances. Unless you borrow money from your in-laws, your finances are your business.

Do think carefully about what DisneyWorld is like. If you've been there you already know, and you know whether you can handle it with a 1 year old. If you haven't been there, the crowds are horrendous, and you can easily spend an hour in one line, sometimes more. Only you can judge whether this is doable for you.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: GrammarNerd on February 27, 2013, 09:45:14 PM
Do think carefully about what DisneyWorld is like. If you've been there you already know, and you know whether you can handle it with a 1 year old. If you haven't been there, the crowds are horrendous, and you can easily spend an hour in one line, sometimes more. Only you can judge whether this is doable for you.

Since you'll have that funky school schedule for your DD, you'll have some several-week breaks in what would be the middle of the school year for everyone else, right?  If so, THAT would be the time to go.  We went at the end of October/beginning of November, and the weather is decent and the lines are quite short.  Most things were under 15 minutes.  Sometimes, with the really popular rides in the middle of the day, you had to wait for an hour, but then you just go find something else and generally the line would be shorter at a different point in the day. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: EllenS on February 27, 2013, 09:53:42 PM
Best time I ever had at Disney was in early/mid October.  We rode Space Mountain 4 times running without even standing in line, just ran right off the end and around to the front.  Of course, the kids won't be on Space Mountain, but it's an example.  Off season rocks.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: WillyNilly on February 27, 2013, 09:59:25 PM
I think its important to remember this apparently happened once (at least the OP doesn't say its a sore topic spanning multiple conversations).  Its not like the FIL is harping on the topic.  He brought it up. Once.

And he didn't call the OP "crazy" or "silly" he called the plan crazy and silly. He wasn't calling anyone names.

I really think that is a reasonable one time reaction by parents to have over hearing of an extravagant plan their adult kid (and spouse and grandchildren) plan to embark on.  Parents don't stop being parents just because their children grow up - the man wants them to save to a for a house, hardly a nasty or outrageous suggestion on his part, or inappropriate for him to bring up once.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Deetee on February 27, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
I think its important to remember this apparently happened once (at least the OP doesn't say its a sore topic spanning multiple conversations).  Its not like the FIL is harping on the topic.  He brought it up. Once.

And he didn't call the OP "crazy" or "silly" he called the plan crazy and silly. He wasn't calling anyone names.

I really think that is a reasonable one time reaction by parents to have over hearing of an extravagant plan their adult kid (and spouse and grandchildren) plan to embark on.  Parents don't stop being parents just because their children grow up - the man wants them to save to a for a house, hardly a nasty or outrageous suggestion on his part, or inappropriate for him to bring up once.

This topic may have been approached once, but assuming I'm remembering the correct poster, there has been a long, long list of examples of the parents interfering, judging and berating the poster (where and how the first birthday should be held, who should be invited, the recent trip to visit grandparents, and some others  ) So this isn't a comfy one off conversation. My parents REALLY like the idea of buying property and I had similiar conversations (in substance, but not in tone) when I chose to travel or somesuch instead. Of course, now that I am buying a house they think I should buy another.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: secretrebel on February 28, 2013, 06:13:51 AM
We have been saving up and paying off things as we need..its been tough but we started saving almost a year ago for 3 years in advance and cut back most of the extra spending..The baby is due June 2013..I hope this helps.

LilacGirl, yours was a very gracious response to a lot of surprising assumptions in the thread. I don't know why so many people assumed your parents were funding you.

Have fun at Disney. It seems clear to me that you adults and your 6 year old will have a heap of fun and your 1 year old may get less out of it but they are going because they are part of your family. You don't leave family members behind on trips. I'm surprised that your family and others in this thread see anything to question. What if you were going to France - the little ones probably wouldn't get as much out of the culture as you would but you're never to young to appreciate new things and experiences.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Tabby Uprising on February 28, 2013, 07:16:21 AM
I think its important to remember this apparently happened once (at least the OP doesn't say its a sore topic spanning multiple conversations).  Its not like the FIL is harping on the topic.  He brought it up. Once.

And he didn't call the OP "crazy" or "silly" he called the plan crazy and silly. He wasn't calling anyone names.

I really think that is a reasonable one time reaction by parents to have over hearing of an extravagant plan their adult kid (and spouse and grandchildren) plan to embark on.  Parents don't stop being parents just because their children grow up - the man wants them to save to a for a house, hardly a nasty or outrageous suggestion on his part, or inappropriate for him to bring up once.

Calling a plan "crazy" and "silly" is still rude.  And hardly productive at that. What did FIL think the reaction would be to him using the terms crazy and silly?  Insults aren't a good way to persuade people to see your point and they put people on the defensive.  So I'd say he was rude and not interested in offering helpful criticism. 

Not that I think there's anything to criticize.  I mean, where is this idea that Disneyland is universally "extravagant" to begin with? We all know that everyone has different priorities when it comes to how they budget their money.  We all know everyone has different finances and disposable income.  Just because something might be extravagant to you, doesn't mean it suddenly becomes an extravagance to everyone in the world. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: JenJay on February 28, 2013, 07:20:01 AM
We have been saving up and paying off things as we need..its been tough but we started saving almost a year ago for 3 years in advance and cut back most of the extra spending..The baby is due June 2013..I hope this helps.

LilacGirl, yours was a very gracious response to a lot of surprising assumptions in the thread. I don't know why so many people assumed your parents were funding you.

Have fun at Disney. It seems clear to me that you adults and your 6 year old will have a heap of fun and your 1 year old may get less out of it but they are going because they are part of your family. You don't leave family members behind on trips. I'm surprised that your family and others in this thread see anything to question. What if you were going to France - the little ones probably wouldn't get as much out of the culture as you would but you're never to young to appreciate new things and experiences.

I agree!

Have a wonderful time! If your FIL brings it up again I'd smile at him and say "We're going and it'll be great!" then change the subject.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: TootsNYC on February 28, 2013, 07:23:34 AM
I think we have to make a distinction between close family relationships and strangers.  Obviously, it is never OK for strangers or acquaintances to offer opinions on our lives.

In a close and warm family there is leeway for people to "speak into" each other's lives -this is part of relational intimacy.  However, that kind of intimacy has to be earned with trust and respect.  In my own family, I call my FIL "dad" just like my DH does, and if he was concerned that we were doing something foolish, he would probably go to DH, but he might also come to me.  Even if I disagreed with him, I would not think he was out of line for broaching the subject.

It's just hard to make blanket statements without knowing the people involved.  Obviously the conversation was annoying to the OP, but that does not mean that the father in law was necessarily doing wrong by talking about it.  It just depends on the relationship.

However, as I said before, calling people "silly" or "crazy" is definitely rude, and there may indeed be a lack of respect/trust going on.  That's a different situation.

When my FIL wanted us to buy a house because we were having a second child, he brought that concern to me as well as to my husband.

I actually saw it (in his case) as a gesture of respect, because he knew that I was part of every decision. And he knew he could talk to me.

He also knew that I would "hear" him--sometimes his son (my DH) will cut a conversation off abruptly, which leaves him worried that his well-intentioned concerns and advice are simply being brushed aside. I, on the other hand, am better able to explain our priorities ("I don't have time to keep my bathroom clean--when will I have time to take care of a yard? Right now I don't have to remember to take the garbage out every Thursday night; with 2 kids, I really don't want that responsibility.")

Then he dropped it.

So I think that's perfectly reasonable exchange. Haranguing isn't, but I think it's not that horrible for someone's parent (their first "life coach") to raise some concerns.

yeah, various people might inform me of vacations and purchases that seem like a waste to me.  I am sure some have felt the same about some of mine over the years. It isn'tmy job to critique the decision. If I can't give it ringing endorsements I should probably limit it to "Oh, that sounds interesting"

The flip side of this is: I've had plenty of people tell me that they didn't approve of a decision--my FIL and the house thing, above. It was mildy annoying (occasionally informative), but it's not like "them criticizing me" or even "them pressuring me" meant I had to DO anything about it.

I don't have to do what they say. And I don't have to worry about what they think. My FIL thinking we should have bought a house and that we were foolish not to doesn't change our relationship--because he *and I* don't let it change the relationship.

He disagrees with me. Oh, well.
He mentions this disagreement. Oh, well--dads do that sometimes.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Veronica on February 28, 2013, 07:27:34 AM
But in this case the OP has posted multiple times that they are trying to save to move into a bigger house and that they have a lot of financial problems.  So I can see the ILs getting frustrated by hearing that they are going on a lavish vacation instead. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 28, 2013, 07:29:56 AM
But in this case the OP has posted multiple times that they are trying to save to move into a bigger house and that they have a lot of financial problems.  So I can see the ILs getting frustrated by hearing that they are going on a lavish vacation instead.

His frustration does not give him the right to over-step his boundaries, something these in-laws have done repeatedly.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 28, 2013, 07:34:47 AM
I went to the Magic Kingdom for the first time when I was 9. We were in Florida anyway for a wedding so it was decided we'd go there for a day. My brother had just recently turned 1 so he was left behind at the hotel with my grandparents, as my parents were definitely of the mindset that it's a waste of time and money if the child can't remember it.

Heck we lived in Florida from the time I was about a year till I was 2 and we never went in that time, though we weren't far either.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bopper on February 28, 2013, 08:16:28 AM
I took my 9 month old to Disney.  At that point, it isn't really for them. I went because my DH had a business trip nearby and then I got the CUTEST pictures of DD in a winnie the pooh outfit being held by Pooh Bear.

For you, clearly you are not taking the one year old so she will enjoy disney world.

You are taking the 1 year old because:

-6 years old is a wonderful time to take her brother and baby is part of the family so shewill go too.
-As a family, you want to go somewhere on vacation, and WDW is the family-friendliest vacation spot on earth.
-You most likely intend to go again some day, and baby will get to go again.

If you wait until baby is 5 or 6, then DS will be 11 or 12.  A fine time to go, but at 6 everything is still magic to them.

Now, if your ILs are financially supporting you in any way or you owe them money then i agree, your money should not be spent on vacation but in paying your debts. But if you are self sufficient, and you have thought about your budget and saved up, then it is not their concern.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: MariaE on February 28, 2013, 08:26:44 AM
But in this case the OP has posted multiple times that they are trying to save to move into a bigger house and that they have a lot of financial problems.  So I can see the ILs getting frustrated by hearing that they are going on a lavish vacation instead.

Some people (myself included) cannot save up and live frugally all the time. Sometimes it is worth indulging in a modest splurge knowing this will postpone my final goal in order to preserve my sanity by having a treat here and now.

My finances are nobody's business but my own (and my husbands). If we're willing to go a bit longer before we can buy a house in order to go on a neat vacation here and now, then that's our prerogative.

... of course, we then also forfeit the right to complain about how long time it's taking to save up ;)
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Sharnita on February 28, 2013, 08:30:06 AM
We have been saving up and paying off things as we need..its been tough but we started saving almost a year ago for 3 years in advance and cut back most of the extra spending..The baby is due June 2013..I hope this helps.

LilacGirl, yours was a very gracious response to a lot of surprising assumptions in the thread. I don't know why so many people assumed your parents were funding you.

Have fun at Disney. It seems clear to me that you adults and your 6 year old will have a heap of fun and your 1 year old may get less out of it but they are going because they are part of your family. You don't leave family members behind on trips. I'm surprised that your family and others in this thread see anything to question. What if you were going to France - the little ones probably wouldn't get as much out of the culture as you would but you're never to young to appreciate new things and experiences.

I don't think there was a post where anybody took it for granted or assumed that her parents were funding her.  A lot of people asked or limited the MYOB advice with the caveat that parents who were helping with a financial burden in nay way could be seen as having a vested interest.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Winterlight on February 28, 2013, 08:32:15 AM
But in this case the OP has posted multiple times that they are trying to save to move into a bigger house and that they have a lot of financial problems.  So I can see the ILs getting frustrated by hearing that they are going on a lavish vacation instead.

Agreed. If your ILs keep hearing how hard you're having it, it's not surprising they're worrying about you.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Visiting Crazy Town on February 28, 2013, 08:41:14 AM
But in this case the OP has posted multiple times that they are trying to save to move into a bigger house and that they have a lot of financial problems.  So I can see the ILs getting frustrated by hearing that they are going on a lavish vacation instead.

Some people (myself included) cannot save up and live frugally all the time. Sometimes it is worth indulging in a modest splurge [i]knowing this will postpone my final goal[/i] in order to preserve my sanity by having a treat here and now.

My finances are nobody's business but my own (and my husbands). If we're willing to go a bit longer before we can buy a house in order to go on a neat vacation here and now, then that's our prerogative.

... of course, we then also forfeit the right to complain about how long time it's taking to save up ;)

I'm sorry but to me a 10000.00 trip is not a modest splurge,  I can understand the FIL concern about the amount the trip cost but as long as he doesn;t harp on it. I think I would excuse him mentioning it one time.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Cami on February 28, 2013, 09:01:16 AM
I think it's best to not have any conversations with close family members about money. Those dynamics practically guarantee unwelcome comments.

As far as the wisdom of bringing a 1 year old to Disney, well, people are always going to have opinions on your parenting decisions. It's bothersome, but in our culture parenthood unfortunately means your decisions and actions will generate unwelcome opinions from day one (or prior, when you're pregnant).  When we took our teen dd to Europe, plenty of people told us we were wasting our money. I just looked at them and said, 'Our money, our choice.' After I'd say it twice, people got the message.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: WillyNilly on February 28, 2013, 09:20:31 AM
I think its important to remember this apparently happened once (at least the OP doesn't say its a sore topic spanning multiple conversations).  Its not like the FIL is harping on the topic.  He brought it up. Once.

And he didn't call the OP "crazy" or "silly" he called the plan crazy and silly. He wasn't calling anyone names.

I really think that is a reasonable one time reaction by parents to have over hearing of an extravagant plan their adult kid (and spouse and grandchildren) plan to embark on.  Parents don't stop being parents just because their children grow up - the man wants them to save to a for a house, hardly a nasty or outrageous suggestion on his part, or inappropriate for him to bring up once.

Calling a plan "crazy" and "silly" is still rude.  And hardly productive at that. What did FIL think the reaction would be to him using the terms crazy and silly?  Insults aren't a good way to persuade people to see your point and they put people on the defensive.  So I'd say he was rude and not interested in offering helpful criticism. 

Not that I think there's anything to criticize.  I mean, where is this idea that Disneyland is universally "extravagant" to begin with? We all know that everyone has different priorities when it comes to how they budget their money.  We all know everyone has different finances and disposable income.  Just because something might be extravagant to you, doesn't mean it suddenly becomes an extravagance to everyone in the world.

I don't think a trip to Disney needs to be extravagant.  But I think a 2 week vacation, that involves hotels and airfare and meals out is.

And to add to that, after reading a previous response I went ahead and looked for some other posts by this OP.  And found their Disney thread in the travel folder.  They plan to spend $10,000 on this vacation.

A $500 weekend away? A one week $1k vacay?  I'd totally think that reasonable and normal and part of de-stressing from life, etc.  But $10k?  That is a down payment on a house.  Aw heck, in some places that buys you a house!

Honestly if her IL's didn't say anything about their plan, I'd think that they were hateful and awful. I think that that the parents have concerns is natural, and to be expected - this is a truly abnormal (not wrong per say) and concerning plan. Should OP still do it?  That is her call, yes of course - her and her DH's money, their life, their kids, their priorities, their choice.  But its common sense the plan is going to cause some sort of reaction to those around them especially those who have been listening to tales of woe regarding financial situations!
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on February 28, 2013, 10:08:24 AM
I think throwing in your own opinion about whether or not the OP is making an "extravagant" plan by taking her kids to Disney is completely inappropriate.  It's Disney...it can be expensive, but depending on your priorities, what you value as far as family time/money, and how the OP is choosing to budget, it doesn't mean that she's blowing money.

And in either case, this is her business.  Not her FIL's and most certainly not anyone's on this board.  And I happen to think that the FIL could have a point, but like I said, there are ways to make it that aren't rude:

"DIL, you've mentioned several times how you would like to save money to buy a house.  Have you considered holding off on this trip for a few years and saving the money for a down payment on the house?  You can have the house now, and baby may even enjoy it more down the line.  Perhaps you can take your 6 year old to a local park this year so that she can still have some with you guys without you having to make this big trip to Disney."  And this really only if he's talking to her about it directly to begin with.  To hear the news from his son and then go talk to her after the fact is still overstepping, IMO.

and then there's

"Disney?  Really?  Your baby is only 1.  He won't remember it or enjoy it.  The plan is silly and crazy and you should be putting that money towards a house instead."

Having a point is not really the issue.  The OP's financial situation is also not the issue (since she doesn't use your in-laws for support).  The issue is why is it anyone's business what family decisions she makes?  Telling them about them does not give them a ticket to interfere.  They obviously don't have the type of relationship where this kind of advice is welcome.  And to me, the crux of the issue is that it  doesn't appear that the FIL approached this in a concerned way at all, but instead a critical and accusatory and even mean way.  Rude.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LilacGirl1983 on February 28, 2013, 02:45:42 PM
Thank you for everyone's input. We don't talk about our finances with FIL. We learned the hard way a ways back..We are also saving up for a new house..so we are strapped a lot..The 10k is the most we want to spend..We are looking for ways to save money. If it didn't seem so much like an attack when he brought it up I would have been more willing to listen but considering that we have it under control and doing a lot of research and he just bringing up all the negative aspects and not listening..I just shut down I guess.

We do plan on going in early October when dd has a 3 week break from school due to fall break.  We want to go at that point since its been in the plans for a while now and its mostly for our daughter. She is so logical she is figuring out things and it won't be magical for her much longer...

I know he is going to bring it up again..and yes these are the in laws who want to take dd for a full week at the beginning of the school year. So I will practice my spine and try to re direct if he goes down that road.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: MariaE on February 28, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
But in this case the OP has posted multiple times that they are trying to save to move into a bigger house and that they have a lot of financial problems.  So I can see the ILs getting frustrated by hearing that they are going on a lavish vacation instead.

Some people (myself included) cannot save up and live frugally all the time. Sometimes it is worth indulging in a modest splurge [i]knowing this will postpone my final goal[/i] in order to preserve my sanity by having a treat here and now.

My finances are nobody's business but my own (and my husbands). If we're willing to go a bit longer before we can buy a house in order to go on a neat vacation here and now, then that's our prerogative.

... of course, we then also forfeit the right to complain about how long time it's taking to save up ;)

I'm sorry but to me a 10000.00 trip is not a modest splurge,  I can understand the FIL concern about the amount the trip cost but as long as he doesn;t harp on it. I think I would excuse him mentioning it one time.

Depends how often you go. 10K on a trip every year? No, not a modest splurge. 10K on a trip every 5 years? I'd say that qualifies.

But really, at the end of the day it doesn't matter what we think. It's nobody's business but the OP's (and her husband's ;) ).
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 28, 2013, 03:18:45 PM
Thank you for everyone's input. We don't talk about our finances with FIL. We learned the hard way a ways back..We are also saving up for a new house..so we are strapped a lot..The 10k is the most we want to spend..We are looking for ways to save money. If it didn't seem so much like an attack when he brought it up I would have been more willing to listen but considering that we have it under control and doing a lot of research and he just bringing up all the negative aspects and not listening..I just shut down I guess.

We do plan on going in early October when dd has a 3 week break from school due to fall break.  We want to go at that point since its been in the plans for a while now and its mostly for our daughter. She is so logical she is figuring out things and it won't be magical for her much longer...

I know he is going to bring it up again..and yes these are the in laws who want to take dd for a full week at the beginning of the school year. So I will practice my spine and try to re direct if he goes down that road.

It seems you will need to do more than redirect, perhaps going so far as to tell him that it is none of his concern, that ya'll have things under control. You can say it with a smile to blunt the tone, perhaps.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: kareng57 on February 28, 2013, 06:31:14 PM
I think throwing in your own opinion about whether or not the OP is making an "extravagant" plan by taking her kids to Disney is completely inappropriate.  It's Disney...it can be expensive, but depending on your priorities, what you value as far as family time/money, and how the OP is choosing to budget, it doesn't mean that she's blowing money.

And in either case, this is her business.  Not her FIL's and most certainly not anyone's on this board.  And I happen to think that the FIL could have a point, but like I said, there are ways to make it that aren't rude:

"DIL, you've mentioned several times how you would like to save money to buy a house.  Have you considered holding off on this trip for a few years and saving the money for a down payment on the house?  You can have the house now, and baby may even enjoy it more down the line.  Perhaps you can take your 6 year old to a local park this year so that she can still have some with you guys without you having to make this big trip to Disney."  And this really only if he's talking to her about it directly to begin with.  To hear the news from his son and then go talk to her after the fact is still overstepping, IMO.

and then there's

"Disney?  Really?  Your baby is only 1.  He won't remember it or enjoy it.  The plan is silly and crazy and you should be putting that money towards a house instead."

Having a point is not really the issue.  The OP's financial situation is also not the issue (since she doesn't use your in-laws for support).  The issue is why is it anyone's business what family decisions she makes?  Telling them about them does not give them a ticket to interfere.  They obviously don't have the type of relationship where this kind of advice is welcome.  And to me, the crux of the issue is that it  doesn't appear that the FIL approached this in a concerned way at all, but instead a critical and accusatory and even mean way.  Rude.


I'll be the first to agree that FIL's reaction was rude - but I don't think he's rude for being concerned.  Parents can't help being concerned about whether their kids are making the right choices, even when their kids are adults.

If my kids told me that they were paying $ 10 grand for a family vacation at the same time that they were desperately trying to save for a house and having a third child, it would be raised-eyebrow territory for me, though I doubt whether I'd say anything if I wasn't asked.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Aeris on February 28, 2013, 06:37:18 PM
I think throwing in your own opinion about whether or not the OP is making an "extravagant" plan by taking her kids to Disney is completely inappropriate.  It's Disney...it can be expensive, but depending on your priorities, what you value as far as family time/money, and how the OP is choosing to budget, it doesn't mean that she's blowing money.

And in either case, this is her business.  Not her FIL's and most certainly not anyone's on this board.  And I happen to think that the FIL could have a point, but like I said, there are ways to make it that aren't rude:

"DIL, you've mentioned several times how you would like to save money to buy a house.  Have you considered holding off on this trip for a few years and saving the money for a down payment on the house?  You can have the house now, and baby may even enjoy it more down the line.  Perhaps you can take your 6 year old to a local park this year so that she can still have some with you guys without you having to make this big trip to Disney."  And this really only if he's talking to her about it directly to begin with.  To hear the news from his son and then go talk to her after the fact is still overstepping, IMO.

and then there's

"Disney?  Really?  Your baby is only 1.  He won't remember it or enjoy it.  The plan is silly and crazy and you should be putting that money towards a house instead."

Having a point is not really the issue.  The OP's financial situation is also not the issue (since she doesn't use your in-laws for support).  The issue is why is it anyone's business what family decisions she makes?  Telling them about them does not give them a ticket to interfere.  They obviously don't have the type of relationship where this kind of advice is welcome.  And to me, the crux of the issue is that it  doesn't appear that the FIL approached this in a concerned way at all, but instead a critical and accusatory and even mean way.  Rude.


I'll be the first to agree that FIL's reaction was rude - but I don't think he's rude for being concerned.  Parents can't help being concerned about whether their kids are making the right choices, even when their kids are adults.

If my kids told me that they were paying $ 10 grand for a family vacation at the same time that they were desperately trying to save for a house and having a third child, it would be raised-eyebrow territory for me, though I doubt whether I'd say anything if I wasn't asked.

My mother would have to bite her tongue so hard it bled.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Scuba_Dog on February 28, 2013, 06:47:54 PM
The part about taking a 1 year old to Disney is none of his concern.

As far as his concerns about spending 10k on a family vacation? When I take in to consideration that in previous thread you have expressed issues with finances as well as trying to save up for a house - He may have been rude - but imo, he's right.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on February 28, 2013, 06:59:49 PM
I think throwing in your own opinion about whether or not the OP is making an "extravagant" plan by taking her kids to Disney is completely inappropriate.  It's Disney...it can be expensive, but depending on your priorities, what you value as far as family time/money, and how the OP is choosing to budget, it doesn't mean that she's blowing money.

And in either case, this is her business.  Not her FIL's and most certainly not anyone's on this board.  And I happen to think that the FIL could have a point, but like I said, there are ways to make it that aren't rude:

"DIL, you've mentioned several times how you would like to save money to buy a house.  Have you considered holding off on this trip for a few years and saving the money for a down payment on the house?  You can have the house now, and baby may even enjoy it more down the line.  Perhaps you can take your 6 year old to a local park this year so that she can still have some with you guys without you having to make this big trip to Disney."  And this really only if he's talking to her about it directly to begin with.  To hear the news from his son and then go talk to her after the fact is still overstepping, IMO.

and then there's

"Disney?  Really?  Your baby is only 1.  He won't remember it or enjoy it.  The plan is silly and crazy and you should be putting that money towards a house instead."

Having a point is not really the issue.  The OP's financial situation is also not the issue (since she doesn't use your in-laws for support).  The issue is why is it anyone's business what family decisions she makes?  Telling them about them does not give them a ticket to interfere.  They obviously don't have the type of relationship where this kind of advice is welcome.  And to me, the crux of the issue is that it  doesn't appear that the FIL approached this in a concerned way at all, but instead a critical and accusatory and even mean way.  Rude.


I'll be the first to agree that FIL's reaction was rude - but I don't think he's rude for being concerned.  Parents can't help being concerned about whether their kids are making the right choices, even when their kids are adults.

If my kids told me that they were paying $ 10 grand for a family vacation at the same time that they were desperately trying to save for a house and having a third child, it would be raised-eyebrow territory for me, though I doubt whether I'd say anything if I wasn't asked.

Being concerned is fine.  Being rude in expressing that concern is not.  And I'd even go as far as to say that if the FIL were to continue to express his "concern" when the OP clearly doesn't want to hear it, is also rude.

I agree it's hard to watch someone we love make decisions that we think are bad or at least don't agree with.  But, I think that the FIL needs to respect that the OP and her DH are adults.  They may or may not be making the smartest decisions (I think we can't speculate on that) with regards to money, but if they aren't endangering themselves or their children, then the FIL really needs to refrain from butting in (and I think this is probably the single biggest challenge of parenting after you've raised your kids and they are on their own).  So, they want to buy a house and they spend $10K on a vacation vs. putting it towards a downpayment.  So what?  Maybe it's not the decision that FIL would make, but it's not his decision.   It's not like the kids will be homeless because they are going to Disney.  They just won't be living in a house that the OP and the DH own.  Not something, I personally, would choose to make an issue of regardless of what my opinion on the matter is. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: kareng57 on February 28, 2013, 09:02:41 PM
I think throwing in your own opinion about whether or not the OP is making an "extravagant" plan by taking her kids to Disney is completely inappropriate.  It's Disney...it can be expensive, but depending on your priorities, what you value as far as family time/money, and how the OP is choosing to budget, it doesn't mean that she's blowing money.

And in either case, this is her business.  Not her FIL's and most certainly not anyone's on this board.  And I happen to think that the FIL could have a point, but like I said, there are ways to make it that aren't rude:

"DIL, you've mentioned several times how you would like to save money to buy a house.  Have you considered holding off on this trip for a few years and saving the money for a down payment on the house?  You can have the house now, and baby may even enjoy it more down the line.  Perhaps you can take your 6 year old to a local park this year so that she can still have some with you guys without you having to make this big trip to Disney."  And this really only if he's talking to her about it directly to begin with.  To hear the news from his son and then go talk to her after the fact is still overstepping, IMO.

and then there's

"Disney?  Really?  Your baby is only 1.  He won't remember it or enjoy it.  The plan is silly and crazy and you should be putting that money towards a house instead."

Having a point is not really the issue.  The OP's financial situation is also not the issue (since she doesn't use your in-laws for support).  The issue is why is it anyone's business what family decisions she makes?  Telling them about them does not give them a ticket to interfere.  They obviously don't have the type of relationship where this kind of advice is welcome.  And to me, the crux of the issue is that it  doesn't appear that the FIL approached this in a concerned way at all, but instead a critical and accusatory and even mean way.  Rude.


I'll be the first to agree that FIL's reaction was rude - but I don't think he's rude for being concerned.  Parents can't help being concerned about whether their kids are making the right choices, even when their kids are adults.

If my kids told me that they were paying $ 10 grand for a family vacation at the same time that they were desperately trying to save for a house and having a third child, it would be raised-eyebrow territory for me, though I doubt whether I'd say anything if I wasn't asked.

Being concerned is fine.  Being rude in expressing that concern is not.  And I'd even go as far as to say that if the FIL were to continue to express his "concern" when the OP clearly doesn't want to hear it, is also rude.

I agree it's hard to watch someone we love make decisions that we think are bad or at least don't agree with.  But, I think that the FIL needs to respect that the OP and her DH are adults.  They may or may not be making the smartest decisions (I think we can't speculate on that) with regards to money, but if they aren't endangering themselves or their children, then the FIL really needs to refrain from butting in (and I think this is probably the single biggest challenge of parenting after you've raised your kids and they are on their own).  So, they want to buy a house and they spend $10K on a vacation vs. putting it towards a downpayment.  So what?  Maybe it's not the decision that FIL would make, but it's not his decision.   It's not like the kids will be homeless because they are going to Disney.  They just won't be living in a house that the OP and the DH own.  Not something, I personally, would choose to make an issue of regardless of what my opinion on the matter is.


But at the same time, we've seen plenty of threads on this board about parents who are still helping out their age 30 - 40+ kids because of poor financial decisions they'd made in the past  - and "they didn't feel as though they could say anything".

I am not saying that this is the case with OP, she's already said that the ILs are not helping them financially.  But I'm picking up the sentiment here that parents have no right to be concerned, regardless of whether or not they express it.  I just can't agree with that - as the mother of two adult sons (and possibly a grandmother some day) I'd be terribly concerned if there was a scenario like this.  It's a huge amount of money to spend on a young-family vacation.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 28, 2013, 09:22:51 PM
I think throwing in your own opinion about whether or not the OP is making an "extravagant" plan by taking her kids to Disney is completely inappropriate.  It's Disney...it can be expensive, but depending on your priorities, what you value as far as family time/money, and how the OP is choosing to budget, it doesn't mean that she's blowing money.

And in either case, this is her business.  Not her FIL's and most certainly not anyone's on this board.  And I happen to think that the FIL could have a point, but like I said, there are ways to make it that aren't rude:

"DIL, you've mentioned several times how you would like to save money to buy a house.  Have you considered holding off on this trip for a few years and saving the money for a down payment on the house?  You can have the house now, and baby may even enjoy it more down the line.  Perhaps you can take your 6 year old to a local park this year so that she can still have some with you guys without you having to make this big trip to Disney."  And this really only if he's talking to her about it directly to begin with.  To hear the news from his son and then go talk to her after the fact is still overstepping, IMO.

and then there's

"Disney?  Really?  Your baby is only 1.  He won't remember it or enjoy it.  The plan is silly and crazy and you should be putting that money towards a house instead."

Having a point is not really the issue.  The OP's financial situation is also not the issue (since she doesn't use your in-laws for support).  The issue is why is it anyone's business what family decisions she makes?  Telling them about them does not give them a ticket to interfere.  They obviously don't have the type of relationship where this kind of advice is welcome.  And to me, the crux of the issue is that it  doesn't appear that the FIL approached this in a concerned way at all, but instead a critical and accusatory and even mean way.  Rude.


I'll be the first to agree that FIL's reaction was rude - but I don't think he's rude for being concerned.  Parents can't help being concerned about whether their kids are making the right choices, even when their kids are adults.

If my kids told me that they were paying $ 10 grand for a family vacation at the same time that they were desperately trying to save for a house and having a third child, it would be raised-eyebrow territory for me, though I doubt whether I'd say anything if I wasn't asked.

Being concerned is fine.  Being rude in expressing that concern is not.  And I'd even go as far as to say that if the FIL were to continue to express his "concern" when the OP clearly doesn't want to hear it, is also rude.

I agree it's hard to watch someone we love make decisions that we think are bad or at least don't agree with.  But, I think that the FIL needs to respect that the OP and her DH are adults.  They may or may not be making the smartest decisions (I think we can't speculate on that) with regards to money, but if they aren't endangering themselves or their children, then the FIL really needs to refrain from butting in (and I think this is probably the single biggest challenge of parenting after you've raised your kids and they are on their own).  So, they want to buy a house and they spend $10K on a vacation vs. putting it towards a downpayment.  So what?  Maybe it's not the decision that FIL would make, but it's not his decision.   It's not like the kids will be homeless because they are going to Disney.  They just won't be living in a house that the OP and the DH own.  Not something, I personally, would choose to make an issue of regardless of what my opinion on the matter is.


But at the same time, we've seen plenty of threads on this board about parents who are still helping out their age 30 - 40+ kids because of poor financial decisions they'd made in the past  - and "they didn't feel as though they could say anything".

I am not saying that this is the case with OP, she's already said that the ILs are not helping them financially.  But I'm picking up the sentiment here that parents have no right to be concerned, regardless of whether or not they express it.  I just can't agree with that - as the mother of two adult sons (and possibly a grandmother some day) I'd be terribly concerned if there was a scenario like this.  It's a huge amount of money to spend on a young-family vacation.

Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Two Ravens on March 01, 2013, 09:45:07 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: stargazer on March 01, 2013, 09:51:20 AM
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LeveeWoman on March 01, 2013, 09:53:24 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

If this were a one-off, I would agree with your, and others', take on this. However, considering the source, LilacGirl's in-laws have a history of intrusive and obnoxious behavior.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: WillyNilly on March 01, 2013, 10:07:02 AM
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

Yeah I was starting to feel a bit foolish too - I first went at 12 and loved every second of it, maybe some posters think I was a stunted kid or something huh? 
My stepmom first went in her 50's and had such an amazing time she and my dad have been back 3 times more... but I guess there must have been no magic for her either though since she was over 6  ::)


Folks, if you want to go, go.  But don't fool yourself that its only special for super little kids, Disney is world famous for, and prides itself for being amazing fun for all ages.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Redwing on March 01, 2013, 10:17:11 AM
Many couples honeymoon there.  A man I work with and his wife go 5-6 times a year and they're middle-aged.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Yvaine on March 01, 2013, 10:21:07 AM
I've been 4 times: at 6, at 12, at 14, and at 23. I enjoyed it all except the time when I was 12, and that's because I had bronchitis at the time. The time when I was 23 was probably my favorite!  ;D
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on March 01, 2013, 10:29:10 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make? 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LeveeWoman on March 01, 2013, 10:56:45 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on March 01, 2013, 11:02:28 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bopper on March 01, 2013, 11:05:17 AM
See also this thread: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=125381.0
for how difficult it is to see your progeny making what you feel are bad decisions.

Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: auntmeegs on March 01, 2013, 11:07:37 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.

Maybe its not fair but it is a pretty normal reaction.  And those that agree with FIL's opinion probably really do see his behavior as that of a concerned parent. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: GreenHall on March 01, 2013, 11:22:15 AM


Since you'll have that funky school schedule for your DD, you'll have some several-week breaks in what would be the middle of the school year for everyone else, right?  If so, THAT would be the time to go.  We went at the end of October/beginning of November, and the weather is decent and the lines are quite short.  Most things were under 15 minutes.  Sometimes, with the really popular rides in the middle of the day, you had to wait for an hour, but then you just go find something else and generally the line would be shorter at a different point in the day.
[/quote]

I have not read the rest of the replies yet, but THIS!!!  I live in (North) Florida, and my first visit in October was a revelation.  I just went earlier this week, and it was beautiful (okay, unseasonably warm, so I can't really recommend Feb, as it isn't ALWAYS 80 F), but SO many fewer people everywhere.  Some of the really popular rides still had hour waits, but most of those have fast pass.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Yvaine on March 01, 2013, 11:25:10 AM
Oh yeah, October is great. Weather is mild, lines are short, and they've got Halloween stuff all over.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on March 01, 2013, 11:31:09 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.

Maybe its not fair but it is a pretty normal reaction.  And those that agree with FIL's opinion probably really do see his behavior as that of a concerned parent.

FWIW, I agree with the FIL's opinion.  I still think he's rude.  Going to someone's house and calling them crazy for making a decision that I don't like (Concerned or otherwise) is rude.  He's not financially responsible for her family, he's not raising the kids, nothing.   If he can't figure out how to express his concern in a "concerned" manner, without insulting the OP and telling her what to do, then he does need to keep quiet about it.  PErsonally, I think that he can tell her what his concerns are in a way that isn't insulting, intrusive, and won't put the OP on edge.  He just didn't do that.

And sorry, I don't agree that it's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with a lot of what my family and friends do.  I might even think they are crazy sometimes.  But me feeling that way doesn't give me the right to express it so bluntly. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Two Ravens on March 01, 2013, 11:41:32 AM
FWIW, I was responding to the general statement that "Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are." Not the FIL's exact comments.

One can be critical and speak hard truths and not be rude, especially coming from a concerned family member. One could say, "I think this trip is an awful idea for reasons W, X, Y and Z," while those reasons might not necessarily be nice to hear, I don't think they would be rude.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Aeris on March 01, 2013, 11:43:56 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.

Maybe its not fair but it is a pretty normal reaction.  And those that agree with FIL's opinion probably really do see his behavior as that of a concerned parent.

FWIW, I agree with the FIL's opinion.  I still think he's rude.  Going to someone's house and calling them crazy for making a decision that I don't like (Concerned or otherwise) is rude.  He's not financially responsible for her family, he's not raising the kids, nothing.   If he can't figure out how to express his concern in a "concerned" manner, without insulting the OP and telling her what to do, then he does need to keep quiet about it.  PErsonally, I think that he can tell her what his concerns are in a way that isn't insulting, intrusive, and won't put the OP on edge.  He just didn't do that.

And sorry, I don't agree that it's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with a lot of what my family and friends do.  I might even think they are crazy sometimes.  But me feeling that way doesn't give me the right to express it so bluntly.

No, it doesn't give you the right to express it so bluntly. But the fact that it's expressed bluntly shouldn't give someone internal justification for ignoring the content of what was said either.

My father is a brusque and socially clumsy man who is sometimes even a bit of a thoughtless jerk. However, he loves me very much and only wants the best for me, and he's pretty darn smart about a lot of things. Occasionally throughout my life he has been concerned about some life decision of mine, and he has invariably expressed that concern brusquely and clumsily and sometimes even a bit thoughtlessly jerkily. While some of those times he's been way off the mark, and needed to back off because he didn't understand what he was talking about, many more of them have been times where his assessment and advice was spot on correct, and I just didn't want to hear it....yet.

He doesn't "have a right" to be so brusque and clumsy with me, but trying to change that behavior is a long term struggle in our relationship. He should be working on it more. However, regardless of how brusque and clumsy he is about it, I would be a *fool* to dismiss every single one of his concerns simply because he expresses himself badly. If my dad really thinks I'm about to do something disastrous, I'd rather him express it badly than keep his mouth shut and watch me hurt myself.

If someone rudely tells you that you're about to drive your car into a brick wall, you should probably listen.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: kareng57 on March 01, 2013, 11:56:13 AM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.


Where did anyone here justify FIL's behaviour?  Even those of us who thought he had a good point still acknowledged his rudeness.

Overall, I just don't agree with this if-parents-are-not-supporting-their-adult-kids-then-they-need-to-keep-their-mouths-shut philosophy.  Perhaps I should have kept my mouth shut when DS and his fiancee told me that they were considering purchasing a house that had been a former grow-op.

I didn't.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LadyR on March 01, 2013, 12:08:50 PM
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

There is a different kind of magic. I'll be 31 when I go for the first time and I expect it to be magical, but my three year old will beleive his favourite characters have coem to life. I will be a very different kind of magic.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Yvaine on March 01, 2013, 12:14:31 PM
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

There is a different kind of magic. I'll be 31 when I go for the first time and I expect it to be magical, but my three year old will beleive his favourite characters have coem to life. I will be a very different kind of magic.

Ah, OK. I was told before even going at 6 that it was people in costumes--I guess I didn't even realize some kids might believe it for real, but it makes sense, along the lines of Santa and the Easter Bunny.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: auntmeegs on March 01, 2013, 12:16:35 PM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.

Maybe its not fair but it is a pretty normal reaction.  And those that agree with FIL's opinion probably really do see his behavior as that of a concerned parent.

FWIW, I agree with the FIL's opinion.  I still think he's rude.  Going to someone's house and calling them crazy for making a decision that I don't like (Concerned or otherwise) is rude.  He's not financially responsible for her family, he's not raising the kids, nothing.   If he can't figure out how to express his concern in a "concerned" manner, without insulting the OP and telling her what to do, then he does need to keep quiet about it.  PErsonally, I think that he can tell her what his concerns are in a way that isn't insulting, intrusive, and won't put the OP on edge.  He just didn't do that.

And sorry, I don't agree that it's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with a lot of what my family and friends do.  I might even think they are crazy sometimes.  But me feeling that way doesn't give me the right to express it so bluntly.

FWIW, I meant that (IMO) it is a normal reaction for posters to consider what they would be doing in the OP's situation and for that to color how they view the FIL's reaction and input. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: EllenS on March 01, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

There is a different kind of magic. I'll be 31 when I go for the first time and I expect it to be magical, but my three year old will beleive his favourite characters have coem to life. I will be a very different kind of magic.

Ah, OK. I was told before even going at 6 that it was people in costumes--I guess I didn't even realize some kids might believe it for real, but it makes sense, along the lines of Santa and the Easter Bunny.

If we were taking our kids, we would have to harp over and over about the people in costumes - giant animals, etc make my little one scream, she's terrified.  The older one would also be completely freaked out about the idea of characters from movies "coming to life" and crossing over into the real world.  Creepy.

We have trouble even going to Chick-fil-a because of the giant cow.  Now the little one asks if the "man in a cow suit" is there, and will hide, but at least she doesn't have a screaming meltdown anymore.

**edited to get my statement out of the quote box
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: artk2002 on March 01, 2013, 01:17:28 PM
I'm just baffled by all the people here saying oh yeah, you have to go when the kids are super young or the magic won't be there for them.  I can tell you I did not go to Disneyland (still haven't made it to DisneyWorld yet) until I was in my early teens and it was super magical and I loved every second of it.  Still feel that way every time I go.

Yeah I was starting to feel a bit foolish too - I first went at 12 and loved every second of it, maybe some posters think I was a stunted kid or something huh? 
My stepmom first went in her 50's and had such an amazing time she and my dad have been back 3 times more... but I guess there must have been no magic for her either though since she was over 6  ::)

Folks, if you want to go, go.  But don't fool yourself that its only special for super little kids, Disney is world famous for, and prides itself for being amazing fun for all ages.

A little O/T but some history might be useful in understanding why the Disney parks aren't just for little kids. He set out to build a park that he would want to visit as an adult. The parks are successful because they appeal to a broad range of people.

Here's a quote from the man himself:
Quote
It started with my taking my two kids around to the zoos and parks. While they were on the merry-go-round riding 40 times or something, I'd be sitting there trying to figure out what you could do that would be more imaginative. Then when I built the new studio in Burbank, I got the idea for a three-dimensional thing that people could actually come and visit. I felt that there should be something built where the parents and the children could have fun together.

I've been to the parks with adults who have never gone before -- cynical engineers, no less -- and seen the wonder in their eyes just like a 6yo's. I'm looking forward to going with my son in law and granddaughters; he's moderately anti-Disney, but I think he's in for a real surprise.

Mrs.k2002 and I have annual passes for Disneyland. Sometimes we'll go with our teenaged sons and sometimes just ourselves. Being 55 instead of 5.5 doesn't take away from the experience. I say that as someone who has been going since he was 3yo.

Back on topic: A parent should be concerned when their adult child is making a questionable decision. There are limits to what they can do about that concern though. One way is to express it, but that has to be done in a way that respects the child's adulthood and autonomy. "How will this affect your plans for buying a house?" raises the issue, and addresses what should be the parent's real concern: Did the adult child consider enough factors in making this decision? What we can't do as parents is impose our particular idea of what something is worth.  For many people, house over Disney is a no-brainer. For others, it's the opposite. Neither is really wrong. It's important that the decision maker consider the value of both before deciding.

Could a Disney-over-house decision be the symptom of real irresponsibility? It certainly can, but that's not in any way a given. Treating it that way at first is an insult to the kids and an insult to the parent (if they had raised the kids right, they wouldn't be irresponsible.) The FIL in the OP sounds like he's going right to the "you're being irresponsible" assumption.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: bah12 on March 01, 2013, 01:34:39 PM
Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are.

I just cannot agree with this. It seems to me to be saying "No one should tell me anything I don't want to hear."

It's not that you can't be told what you don't want to hear, but it still shouldn't be done rudely.  First, we are talking about a vacation or a house downpayment.  For some us, it's obvious which one we'd choose, but that doesn't make choosing the other wrong, crazy, or silly.  The FIL has every right to be concerned and express concern.  But he's being overly critical and intrusive in the process.  That is rude.  There are polite ways to show concern.  Calling her plan crazy and silly is not it.  And I would think that if you (general) love someone enough to be concerned about whether or not they save money for a house or take their kids to Disney, then I would also assume that you love them enough to try to approach them in a loving and kind manner...one in which you may actually get some results.  This seems like being critical for the sake of criticizing.  And not likely to get the OP to consider his POV.

As for the whole discussion/commentary about when kids should go to Disney, what is and isn't considered extravagant, etc.  It doesn't matter.  At all.  The OP and her husband have made a decision.  They are going to Disney.  She didn't come here asking any of us to tell her if we think it is or isn't a good idea.  She asked for advice on how to respond to someone who's making her business, theirs.  Responding with your own opinions about how sound her plan is, is doing exactly what the FIL is doing.  It's not our business.  Her kids will still have a place to sleep and food to eat.  They are not homeless and starving because of one vacation, so why should any of us care if chooses a vacation over a downpayment?  Why does it matter that she wants to take her 6 year old this year?  Who cares if the 6 year old can enjoy the park when she's 56 too?  None of that means that the OP can't take her now.  Why can't the kids have a childhood memory of going to Disney with parents?  Becuase it's not a choice you (generic) would make?

Some have pointed out that he called the plan "crazy" and "silly." However, he also called her "crazy." And, it sounds from LilacGirl's first post that he came over to her house to do so. ("He came over and pretty much tried to convince me to wait.")

Good point.  And it makes me even more surprised how many posters are continuing to justify FIL's behavior and chalk it up to being a concerned parent (at least that's how it seems to me).  I really feel that some are pushing their own opinion on what choices they'd make if they were in the same financial position as they think LilacGirl is in.  And that's not fair.

Maybe its not fair but it is a pretty normal reaction.  And those that agree with FIL's opinion probably really do see his behavior as that of a concerned parent.

FWIW, I agree with the FIL's opinion.  I still think he's rude.  Going to someone's house and calling them crazy for making a decision that I don't like (Concerned or otherwise) is rude.  He's not financially responsible for her family, he's not raising the kids, nothing.   If he can't figure out how to express his concern in a "concerned" manner, without insulting the OP and telling her what to do, then he does need to keep quiet about it.  PErsonally, I think that he can tell her what his concerns are in a way that isn't insulting, intrusive, and won't put the OP on edge.  He just didn't do that.

And sorry, I don't agree that it's a normal reaction.  I don't agree with a lot of what my family and friends do.  I might even think they are crazy sometimes.  But me feeling that way doesn't give me the right to express it so bluntly.

No, it doesn't give you the right to express it so bluntly. But the fact that it's expressed bluntly shouldn't give someone internal justification for ignoring the content of what was said either.

My father is a brusque and socially clumsy man who is sometimes even a bit of a thoughtless jerk. However, he loves me very much and only wants the best for me, and he's pretty darn smart about a lot of things. Occasionally throughout my life he has been concerned about some life decision of mine, and he has invariably expressed that concern brusquely and clumsily and sometimes even a bit thoughtlessly jerkily. While some of those times he's been way off the mark, and needed to back off because he didn't understand what he was talking about, many more of them have been times where his assessment and advice was spot on correct, and I just didn't want to hear it....yet.

He doesn't "have a right" to be so brusque and clumsy with me, but trying to change that behavior is a long term struggle in our relationship. He should be working on it more. However, regardless of how brusque and clumsy he is about it, I would be a *fool* to dismiss every single one of his concerns simply because he expresses himself badly. If my dad really thinks I'm about to do something disastrous, I'd rather him express it badly than keep his mouth shut and watch me hurt myself.

If someone rudely tells you that you're about to drive your car into a brick wall, you should probably listen.

First, the only internal justification anyone needs not to listen to advice is that the decision they are making is theirs.  The decision being foolish or not, does not make a rude statment suddenly not rude.

Also, we are not talking about a health and safety issue here.  The OP is not doing the equivalent of driving her family into a brick wall.  She is choosing to go to Disney.  That is it.  That decision does not come at the sacrifice of the well being of her children or anyone else in her family.  We don't even know for sure that it comes at the expense of a downpayment for a house...but even if it did, that isn't something that is so out there that the FIL or anyone on this board needs to make a mission to stop her from doing.

I personally would have (and did) choose saving for home ownership over going to Disney World.  But that was my choice.  It's no better or no worse that the decision that the OP has made.  And there are a million other factors in deciding to buy a house vs. renting one.  She may be saving for a house now, but that doesn't automatically mean that now is really the right time for her to buy one.  And it's none of our business anyway.  Just because I would have chosen differently, doesn't give me the right to call her crazy.  Even if my advice, aside from any of the colorful commentary I decide to insert it, is sound.  But, yeah, the OP has every right to justify not listening to me....regardless of what the consequences of her decision are.  That's the thing about it being her decision. 

I really think that some are blowing this way out of proportion in an attempt to justify the FIL's behavior.  What he did was rude.  Being concerned, her having financial hardships, and the ages in which everyone has enjoyed their trip to Disney is completely irrelevant.  The OP made a choice.  It is not illegal, immoral, rude, unsafe, or otherwise inconvenient for anyone.  Therefore any argument that the FIL can be rude and blunt in his delivery of his "concern" is justified, just doesn't apply. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: ettiquit on March 01, 2013, 01:58:35 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LilacGirl1983 on March 01, 2013, 02:29:25 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.

This is it..We currently own a house. I guess I didn't see the relevance..but I guess it is..we are saving up for a bigger house and if we tried to move our house would be sold at loss..so we are saving up for both a bigger house and the disney vacation. We don't see any need for haste to move out but FIL thinks we need to move asap..His main thing was the age of the 1 year old and needing a bigger house. I know it was out of concern but still seemed like an attack. So thats why I was asking how to deflect any further comments about it. I know he will bring it up again.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: SPuck on March 01, 2013, 02:39:42 PM
So thats why I was asking how to deflect any further comments about it. I know he will bring it up again.

"This subject is no longer up for discussion." Followed by bean dipping, and if he continues. "Since you don't seem to want to drop this subject we will be leaving now." And follow through.

Personally I think it is rude to comment on anyone else's financial situation unless they ask for an opinion or if there is money involved between the two parties. Neither is true in this situation so the FIL is being rude.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: ettiquit on March 01, 2013, 03:25:03 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.

This is it..We currently own a house. I guess I didn't see the relevance..but I guess it is..we are saving up for a bigger house and if we tried to move our house would be sold at loss..so we are saving up for both a bigger house and the disney vacation. We don't see any need for haste to move out but FIL thinks we need to move asap..His main thing was the age of the 1 year old and needing a bigger house. I know it was out of concern but still seemed like an attack. So thats why I was asking how to deflect any further comments about it. I know he will bring it up again.

We're definitely in the same boat as far as our goals go.  :)

Bean-dipping might be your best bet.

FIL: You are a lunatic for thinking that Disney is more important than a bigger house
LilacGirl1983: Have I shown you my recipe for kitten pie?
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Sharnita on March 01, 2013, 04:05:03 PM
I must be in an evil mood because the thought popped into my head this afternoon that you have taken out a $1million life insurance policy on him so you expect to be in the bigger house by Christmas.

Must not actually say rude or mean things aloud but you can entertain yourself with an inner monologue.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Cami on March 01, 2013, 04:14:13 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LeveeWoman on March 01, 2013, 04:24:05 PM
FWIW, I was responding to the general statement that "Concern is not rude. Unwanted and critical comments, however, are." Not the FIL's exact comments.

One can be critical and speak hard truths and not be rude, especially coming from a concerned family member. One could say, "I think this trip is an awful idea for reasons W, X, Y and Z," while those reasons might not necessarily be nice to hear, I don't think they would be rude.

Lilacgirl was not involved in a conversation with him in which she sought out  is opinion. She did not even start a conversation about it. He came over to her house in order to tell her that she is "crazy" and that this idea is crazy/silly.

Coupled with other things she's told us about him and/or his wife, he has a habit of forcing his opinion on her.

If he weren't her husband's father, would it be considered rude for him to show up at someone's house in order to criticize something which will not affect him?
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Roe on March 01, 2013, 04:29:31 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

This isn't really up for anyone to decide, other than OP and her DH.  I don't get why people think it's their place to "understand" where the FIL was coming from or to say anything about OP's finances. She didn't come here asking for financial advice.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: problemattic on March 01, 2013, 07:10:15 PM
My two cents...the important thing is that the child enjoy the experience; not that they remember it later.  Should we keep them at home until they are old enough to "make memories?"  I recall my little ones giggling hysterically, pointing excitedly, and thoroughly having a great time before they could talk.  Go have fun!
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: JenJay on March 01, 2013, 07:59:34 PM
My two cents...the important thing is that the child enjoy the experience; not that they remember it later.  Should we keep them at home until they are old enough to "make memories?"  I recall my little ones giggling hysterically, pointing excitedly, and thoroughly having a great time before they could talk.  Go have fun!

Very well said!

LilacGirl, when FIL brings it up again I'd say "You've mad your point. Our finances are under control and we're going to Disney. It's not up for debate."
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: kajunchick on March 01, 2013, 09:05:20 PM
I brought my kids to WDW when they were 11, 4, and 1. My baby did fine. There was so much to see, and many, many rides are slow and safe for everyone. (I'm thinking about Peter Pan's Flight, Snow White Adventure, even the Jungle Cruise). I would plan to stick with the Magic Kingdom, stay onsite (we loved the family suites at All-Star Music), and bring your own stroller.

We went again last year when DS was three and a half, so he'll probably remember this trip better, but we all enjoyed that first trip.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: sammycat on March 01, 2013, 09:21:02 PM
Many couples honeymoon there.  A man I work with and his wife go 5-6 times a year and they're middle-aged.

DH and I spent part of our honeymoon there.  :)

I think everyone is so focused on the 1 year old that they've forgotten that there's also a 6 year old, and 2 adults, involved. So what if the 1 year old doesn't get much out of it this time round? The 6 year old (and the adults) will, not to mention the 6 year old and the adults will be making memories.

Living in New Zealand as a child, Disneyland was The Ultimate Place In The Whole Wide World To Visit.  I would have given my right arm to visit as a 6 year old/any age child. We nearly did when I was 9. I may one day forgive my parents for taking us to Australia instead. Or not.

My first visit was as a 20 year old. It was ok; I actually enjoyed it more on later visits, and am quite addicted now. It also made me very determined to take my (then-future) children there when they were kids, which I'm pleased to say I did (both Disneyland and Disney World).

If OP can afford it, and isn't asking anyone else to foot the bill for this trip or any other living expenses, then it's no one else's business, least of all a rude FIL's, what they do with their money. (BTW, OP, I can highly recommend the Pop Century as an onsite hotel).
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: MariaE on March 01, 2013, 11:59:05 PM
I've been to a Disney park 4 times - at age 3 (where my youngest sister was just under 2), 10, 17 and 18. The two first visits were definitely the best and most magical. After that it was just an amusement park like any other.

... That's not to say I wouldn't love to go again though ;)
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 02, 2013, 08:08:02 AM
I recommend any hotel that is on the monorail line.  When we went to Disneyworld when I was 13, we stayed at the Contemporary inn, the one that has a monorail going right through the hotel.  It was great, as there was no need to rent a car at all, we could just hop on the monorail and go to whichever park we felt like visiting that day. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Roe on March 02, 2013, 08:38:45 AM
I recommend any hotel that is on the monorail line.  When we went to Disneyworld when I was 13, we stayed at the Contemporary inn, the one that has a monorail going right through the hotel.  It was great, as there was no need to rent a car at all, we could just hop on the monorail and go to whichever park we felt like visiting that day.

You can only take the monorail to Magic Kingdom or Epcot.  Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios are not on the monorail. (neither is Downtown Disney)

Staying at a monorail hotel would help with using the stroller.  My vote is for the Polynesian.  :)   

OP wouldn't need a rental if she stays at a Disney resort as they do have transportation from resorts to every Disney park.  :)


Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Roe on March 02, 2013, 08:54:56 AM
Since our first visit in '02, my family and I have gone to Disney 7 times. Yes, we've spent a small fortune but the memories we created are truly priceless.  I've never once regretted the amount we spent.

This summer we hope to take our boys to NYC and yesterday I heard grumbling about "but what about Disney?"  And my boys are already older!  My youngest is 9. 

So Disney can be a magical place for any age and families can spend a fortune or go on a budget, there are many ways to "do" Disney. 

Thing is, OP, you and your family are self sufficient and you don't need to run your finances by anybody, including your FIL.  I'm sure some of our family members think we are crazy for spending what we spend on our vacations but it's no one's business but our own. We don't ask them for a cent, they have no say.

When we hear the "you are going to Disney again?" comments, we just smile and say "yep!" 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: DoubleTrouble on March 02, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
I actually find it fascinating that that FIL is opposed to the OP's family going to Disney as my parents are just aghast that we haven't taken our 4.5 yr old sons yet. Apparently my first visit to Disney was around age 2 & we went went back many times over the years. Actually my parents just went to Disney a few weeks ago & enjoyed it but they did say it was very different when you don't have little kids who are just in awe of everything going on. They said it was more magical for them when my brother & I were small.

We really, really want to go but with my husband's school demands it just hasn't been possible for the past few years. When I mentioned taking the boys in the next year or so to my Dad I got "such a pity you haven't taken them yet." :o Sure Dad, we really should have trotted the boys down on a week-long vacation sometime during the one week of time off DH got in between semesters when he really should have been just sitting around the house relaxing ::) Oh & did you forget that DH was also working? Love 'em but my parents are weird sometimes.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: miranova on March 02, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

 She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

And here is where I park my pod. 

I love talking finances, but this is not the board for it and the OP didn't ask for our financial opinions.  All of this unsolicited financial advice flying around in this thread is surprising.  And I find it interesting that people can have such strong financial opinions without any understanding of the facts.  As it turns out, OP has clarified that she already owns a home.  I see no urgency in buying a larger home.  Perhaps she and her dh are perfectly content in the home they have until they are done saving up for the new one.  Their choice. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: MrsJWine on March 02, 2013, 03:52:28 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

 She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

And here is where I park my pod. 

I love talking finances, but this is not the board for it and the OP didn't ask for our financial opinions.  All of this unsolicited financial advice flying around in this thread is surprising.  And I find it interesting that people can have such strong financial opinions without any understanding of the facts.  As it turns out, OP has clarified that she already owns a home.  I see no urgency in buying a larger home.  Perhaps she and her dh are perfectly content in the home they have until they are done saving up for the new one.  Their choice. 

She has posted before about wanting a new house, badly. They have had repeated financial difficulties in the past. I think if the FIL's history of rudeness and intrusiveness can be considered relevant (and yes, he was rude), then the OP's history of financial problems can be considered relevant. A $10,000 vacation could mean financial ruin. I think it's profoundly irresponsible to NOT bring up these concerns, whether the OP specifically asked for these opinions or not.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LeveeWoman on March 02, 2013, 03:57:22 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

 She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

And here is where I park my pod. 

I love talking finances, but this is not the board for it and the OP didn't ask for our financial opinions.  All of this unsolicited financial advice flying around in this thread is surprising.  And I find it interesting that people can have such strong financial opinions without any understanding of the facts.  As it turns out, OP has clarified that she already owns a home.  I see no urgency in buying a larger home.  Perhaps she and her dh are perfectly content in the home they have until they are done saving up for the new one.  Their choice. 

She has posted before about wanting a new house, badly. They have had repeated financial difficulties in the past. I think if the FIL's history of rudeness and intrusiveness can be considered relevant (and yes, he was rude), then the OP's history of financial problems can be considered relevant. A $10,000 vacation could mean financial ruin. I think it's profoundly irresponsible to NOT bring up these concerns, whether the OP specifically asked for these opinions or not.

That's not your place.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: miranova on March 02, 2013, 04:37:19 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

 She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

And here is where I park my pod. 

I love talking finances, but this is not the board for it and the OP didn't ask for our financial opinions.  All of this unsolicited financial advice flying around in this thread is surprising.  And I find it interesting that people can have such strong financial opinions without any understanding of the facts.  As it turns out, OP has clarified that she already owns a home.  I see no urgency in buying a larger home.  Perhaps she and her dh are perfectly content in the home they have until they are done saving up for the new one.  Their choice. 

She has posted before about wanting a new house, badly. They have had repeated financial difficulties in the past. I think if the FIL's history of rudeness and intrusiveness can be considered relevant (and yes, he was rude), then the OP's history of financial problems can be considered relevant. A $10,000 vacation could mean financial ruin. I think it's profoundly irresponsible to NOT bring up these concerns, whether the OP specifically asked for these opinions or not.

That's not your place.

Exactly.  I could find financially irresponsible people all day long to lecture and I'd never run out of material.  There are a whole lot of people out there spending money on things they shouldn't. But it simply isn't my business.  I can kind of agree that close family could bring it up with the OP in a courteous, non condescending way and be ok.  But strangers on the internet?  No, not when the OP did not ask for financial advice.

Even if OP is HUGELY financially irresponsible, which is subjective in the first place, she's being irresponsbile with her own money.  None of our business.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: WillyNilly on March 02, 2013, 05:26:29 PM
But the OP has come here and posted about her financial woes, and she did start a thread about her proposed 2 week$10k vacation, and she started this thread. She made it our business in so far as she started all these conversations with us, she provided all the info voluntarily and she asked for advice on each aspect. To tell posters it's not our business to take all the info she wanted us to comment on as a big picture is ridiculous. Sure you can comment on each detail separately, but it's not unreasonable for posters to look at the bigger picture provided by the OP herself.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: miranova on March 02, 2013, 05:58:41 PM
But the OP has come here and posted about her financial woes, and she did start a thread about her proposed 2 week$10k vacation, and she started this thread. She made it our business in so far as she started all these conversations with us, she provided all the info voluntarily and she asked for advice on each aspect. To tell posters it's not our business to take all the info she wanted us to comment on as a big picture is ridiculous. Sure you can comment on each detail separately, but it's not unreasonable for posters to look at the bigger picture provided by the OP herself.

I haven't read the other threads being referenced.  I am only commenting on this one, and nowhere on this thread does the OP ask for any financial advice at all.  I fail to see how asking about X on one thread means that if I ask about Y on another thread, I am subjecting myself to getting advice about X again.  Why not keep the financial remarks on a thread where the OP is actually asking about finances?  This thread is about shutting her rude father in law down. 

The cost of the vacation is completely irrelevant to how she should handle her FIL.    It makes absolutely no difference in terms of what her reaction should be.  None. 

If the OP and her husband have already made this decision (regardless of whether it's "right" or "wrong") then all they need to do is politely state to FIL that they appreciate his concern but they have it covered and the decision is made. 

I stand behind my opinion that repeatedly stating that this vacation is irresponsible has no place on this thread.  I am not against financial advice, in the right venue, where people are actually asking for some.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: kareng57 on March 02, 2013, 06:12:53 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

 She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

And here is where I park my pod. 

I love talking finances, but this is not the board for it and the OP didn't ask for our financial opinions.  All of this unsolicited financial advice flying around in this thread is surprising.  And I find it interesting that people can have such strong financial opinions without any understanding of the facts.  As it turns out, OP has clarified that she already owns a home.  I see no urgency in buying a larger home.  Perhaps she and her dh are perfectly content in the home they have until they are done saving up for the new one.  Their choice.


I don't see that posters were "giving financial advice".  A few of us asserted that we could kind of understand where FIL was coming from, even though he expressed his concern quite rudely - that's all.  Sometimes, it can help give an OP a different perspective.

It's my understanding that, on this board, people are allowed to express opinions that don't necessarily give a direct answer to an OP's question - one exception of course is the I Need A Hug folder.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: LadyR on March 02, 2013, 06:46:30 PM
I would desperately like to own a house. It is not going to happen in the next five years. I am also planning a trip to Disney next year, which is much more feasible due to finances, where we are in our lives and a lot of factors (such as neither of us would qualify for a mortgage for several years). Maybe it seems irresponsible to plan an expensive trip when I'd like a house, but I could save the money, not go on the vacation and still not be any closer to buying a house. So the two things really don't go together and maybe they don't for the OP either. She has stated that she'd have to sell her current house at a loss, maybe she is unwilling to do that and that, as much as anything else, prevents her from selling it and moving to a bigger house. Going to Disney won't change that.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: artk2002 on March 02, 2013, 06:47:44 PM
But the OP has come here and posted about her financial woes, and she did start a thread about her proposed 2 week$10k vacation, and she started this thread. She made it our business in so far as she started all these conversations with us, she provided all the info voluntarily and she asked for advice on each aspect. To tell posters it's not our business to take all the info she wanted us to comment on as a big picture is ridiculous. Sure you can comment on each detail separately, but it's not unreasonable for posters to look at the bigger picture provided by the OP herself.

Could you please PM me the link to the post where OP posted about financial woes? I just looked at the last year of her postings and couldn't find anything that qualified.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: Redwing on March 02, 2013, 07:24:35 PM
I'm of the opinion that if you put your life out there on a forum such as this, people will comment on the entirety of what you have posted before.  I don't have an opinon for or against the OP taking a trip that costs what this one does, it's her money.  But when you put it up for public consumption, people will comment what they think taking all the previous posts into consideration.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: miranova on March 02, 2013, 07:41:01 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

 She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

And here is where I park my pod. 

I love talking finances, but this is not the board for it and the OP didn't ask for our financial opinions.  All of this unsolicited financial advice flying around in this thread is surprising.  And I find it interesting that people can have such strong financial opinions without any understanding of the facts.  As it turns out, OP has clarified that she already owns a home.  I see no urgency in buying a larger home.  Perhaps she and her dh are perfectly content in the home they have until they are done saving up for the new one.  Their choice.


I don't see that posters were "giving financial advice".  A few of us asserted that we could kind of understand where FIL was coming from, even though he expressed his concern quite rudely - that's all.  Sometimes, it can help give an OP a different perspective.

It's my understanding that, on this board, people are allowed to express opinions that don't necessarily give a direct answer to an OP's question - one exception of course is the I Need A Hug folder.

Huh.  I saw lots of posters telling the OP that she should consider her FIL's opinion because he's "right" or "may have a valid point".  That definitely qualifies in my mind as giving unsolicited advice.  Which is pretty ironic on a thread where someone is trying to figure out a way to stop someone from giving her unsolicited advice. 

I suppose people can express whatever opinions that the mods feel are appropriate.  I'm not a mod so certainly no one has to do what I say but I'm just expressing my opinion as well. 
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: citadelle on March 02, 2013, 07:48:42 PM
.
I suppose people can express whatever opinions that the mods feel are appropriate.  I'm not a mod so certainly no one has to do what I say but I'm just expressing my opinion as well.

I see a lot of attempts to mod in this thread. OP's do not always get support. They get the opinions and points of view of others.  No one is obligated to take the OP's "side"  of an issue.

My parents and inlaws would definitely have something to say to me about such a trip. I may not want to hear it, but I don't always get to only hear support for my views, here or from my parents.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: kareng57 on March 02, 2013, 07:54:52 PM
It is perfectly ok for someone you are close with to politely express concerns about choices you make.  The OP's FIL was not at all polite.

Also, I'm saving up to be able to afford to sell our house (at a loss, boo!) and simultaneously savings for the 3 family vacations I have planned for the year. 

It really doesn't have to be one or the other - especially if you're good with money.
  It really does have to be one or the other if your income is not sufficient to support both. Many people can not support both. No matter how good you are with money, insufficient funds cannot generate more funds like Tribbles.

 She didn't come here asking for financial advice.

And here is where I park my pod. 

I love talking finances, but this is not the board for it and the OP didn't ask for our financial opinions.  All of this unsolicited financial advice flying around in this thread is surprising.  And I find it interesting that people can have such strong financial opinions without any understanding of the facts.  As it turns out, OP has clarified that she already owns a home.  I see no urgency in buying a larger home.  Perhaps she and her dh are perfectly content in the home they have until they are done saving up for the new one.  Their choice.


I don't see that posters were "giving financial advice".  A few of us asserted that we could kind of understand where FIL was coming from, even though he expressed his concern quite rudely - that's all.  Sometimes, it can help give an OP a different perspective.

It's my understanding that, on this board, people are allowed to express opinions that don't necessarily give a direct answer to an OP's question - one exception of course is the I Need A Hug folder.

Huh.  I saw lots of posters telling the OP that she should consider her FIL's opinion because he's "right" or "may have a valid point".  That definitely qualifies in my mind as giving unsolicited advice.  Which is pretty ironic on a thread where someone is trying to figure out a way to stop someone from giving her unsolicited advice. 

I suppose people can express whatever opinions that the mods feel are appropriate.  I'm not a mod so certainly no one has to do what I say but I'm just expressing my opinion as well.


You're free to have whatever opinion you want as to what the OP wants to do.  That does not give you the right to attempt to shut-down what some PPs have said.
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: mbbored on March 02, 2013, 07:56:04 PM
I feel that only those who are impacted by the OP's financial choices are allowed to offer an opinion about them. If the FIL is helping out OP's family, then his opinions should be considered. Otherwise, he shouldn't offer any opinion besides "That's nice. Would you like to try some bean dip?"
Title: Re: Bringing a 1 year old where?!
Post by: cass2591 on March 02, 2013, 08:00:27 PM
A few people here seem to be under the misconception that if one posts a topic they deserve unconditional support and agreement. Sometimes you get 100% validation but most of the time you don't.  The point is to be respectful.

Thread locked because it's apparent never the twain shall meet.