Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Etiquette of the Rich and Famous => Topic started by: VltGrantham on March 05, 2013, 12:49:48 PM

Title: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: VltGrantham on March 05, 2013, 12:49:48 PM
http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan (http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan)

I'm of mixed emotions on this.

First of all, I think he did handle it very badly.

Second though, I think this is a major reason why parents receive the stink-eye from the general public so much.  It's a rock concert--not Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, but the Who.  Why in the world would you bring a 7 year old to that?  I get the impression Dad used his kid as an attention getter from a rocker he likes, then didn't like the outcome.  Also, if his DD just LOVED Pete Townshend, why didn't the sign say that instead of "smash your guitar"?

So basically, you encourage your child to encourage another to do an immature act and then get annoyed when it wasn't the act you desired?

Our DD (6) loves Billy Idol.  However, I don't think we'll be taking her to any of his concerts.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: afbluebelle on March 05, 2013, 01:02:27 PM
I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't bring small children to rock concerts. Just seems like it would solve any problems before they start. Had to deal with too many outraged parents who were threatening lawsuits because people weren't watching out for their kids. In a mosh pit.

 Lady, there are dozens of chicks on their boyfriend's shoulders flashing their chests and then getting crowd surfed away. Not exactly a great place to put your kid on your back to get a better look. ::)
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: WillyNilly on March 05, 2013, 01:15:34 PM
Wow.  I'm actually very upset Townsend apologized.  I mean understand why did and all, but it just sets a terrible precedence.  That parent was wrong in so many ways, and the reality is Townsend didn't even actually curse.  He merely mouthed the words.  And words the child shouldn't really understand anyway.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tilt Fairy on March 05, 2013, 01:23:23 PM
http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan (http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan)

I'm of mixed emotions on this.

First of all, I think he did handle it very badly.

Second though, I think this is a major reason why parents receive the stink-eye from the general public so much.  It's a rock concert--not Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, but the Who.  Why in the world would you bring a 7 year old to that?  I get the impression Dad used his kid as an attention getter from a rocker he likes, then didn't like the outcome.  Also, if his DD just LOVED Pete Townshend, why didn't the sign say that instead of "smash your guitar"?

So basically, you encourage your child to encourage another to do an immature act and then get annoyed when it wasn't the act you desired?

Our DD (6) loves Billy Idol.  However, I don't think we'll be taking her to any of his concerts.

The sign was in reference to Pete Townshend being a guitar smasher back in his younger partying days when The Who was at their peak. He used to love smashing guitars on stage just like lots of rock gods used to enjoy doing. However he's older now and has his younger days all behind him and has often said how embarrassed and sheepish he now is about the silly things he used to do in his prime like smashing guitars and trashing rooms and equipment. Him, the rest of the band and a generation of our parents who were Who fans and made up the crowd are all older and mature now. Added to that that a Who Concert these days would be more sedate and sensible than back in the day due to the average age of the crowd, the genre and changing times, the sign probably set him off. Not cool to swear but really REALLY not a good idea to bring your kid to any rock concert. A child at something like a Who or Fleetwood Mac or Phil Collins concert is one (stupid) thing but you'd have to have completely lost the plot to bring your child to watch a band like Iron Maiden or Motorhead or Metallica for example.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tabby Uprising on March 05, 2013, 01:43:08 PM
http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan (http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan)

I'm of mixed emotions on this.

First of all, I think he did handle it very badly.

Second though, I think this is a major reason why parents receive the stink-eye from the general public so much.  It's a rock concert--not Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, but the Who.  Why in the world would you bring a 7 year old to that?  I get the impression Dad used his kid as an attention getter from a rocker he likes, then didn't like the outcome.  Also, if his DD just LOVED Pete Townshend, why didn't the sign say that instead of "smash your guitar"?

So basically, you encourage your child to encourage another to do an immature act and then get annoyed when it wasn't the act you desired?

Our DD (6) loves Billy Idol.  However, I don't think we'll be taking her to any of his concerts.

The sign was in reference to Pete Townshend being a guitar smasher back in his younger partying days when The Who was at their peak. He used to love smashing guitars on stage just like lots of rock gods used to enjoy doing. However he's older now and has his younger days all behind him and has often said how embarrassed and sheepish he now is about the silly things he used to do in his prime like smashing guitars and trashing rooms and equipment. Him, the rest of the band and a generation of our parents who were Who fans and made up the crowd are all older and mature now. Added to that that a Who Concert these days would be more sedate and sensible than back in the day due to the average age of the crowd, the genre and changing times, the sign probably set him off. Not cool to swear but really REALLY not a good idea to bring your kid to any rock concert. A child at something like a Who or Fleetwood Mac or Phil Collins concert is one (stupid) thing but you'd have to have completely lost the plot to bring your child to watch a band like Iron Maiden or Motorhead or Metallica for example.

Why is it stupid?
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tilt Fairy on March 05, 2013, 01:54:45 PM
http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan (http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan)

I'm of mixed emotions on this.

First of all, I think he did handle it very badly.

Second though, I think this is a major reason why parents receive the stink-eye from the general public so much.  It's a rock concert--not Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, but the Who.  Why in the world would you bring a 7 year old to that?  I get the impression Dad used his kid as an attention getter from a rocker he likes, then didn't like the outcome.  Also, if his DD just LOVED Pete Townshend, why didn't the sign say that instead of "smash your guitar"?

So basically, you encourage your child to encourage another to do an immature act and then get annoyed when it wasn't the act you desired?

Our DD (6) loves Billy Idol.  However, I don't think we'll be taking her to any of his concerts.

The sign was in reference to Pete Townshend being a guitar smasher back in his younger partying days when The Who was at their peak. He used to love smashing guitars on stage just like lots of rock gods used to enjoy doing. However he's older now and has his younger days all behind him and has often said how embarrassed and sheepish he now is about the silly things he used to do in his prime like smashing guitars and trashing rooms and equipment. Him, the rest of the band and a generation of our parents who were Who fans and made up the crowd are all older and mature now. Added to that that a Who Concert these days would be more sedate and sensible than back in the day due to the average age of the crowd, the genre and changing times, the sign probably set him off. Not cool to swear but really REALLY not a good idea to bring your kid to any rock concert. A child at something like a Who or Fleetwood Mac or Phil Collins concert is one (stupid) thing but you'd have to have completely lost the plot to bring your child to watch a band like Iron Maiden or Motorhead or Metallica for example.

Why is it stupid?

Because it's an adult rock concert. Even though The Who is probably on the calmer end of rock concerts, most of them are filled with adult lyrics and themes, crowd surfers, swearing, drugs, drink, swearing, mosh pits, barging etc.. etc.. which is great and fun for me as an adult and the reason I love going to them but really really not a wise place to bring a 7-year old child. Reading the comments in the online newspapers about this, the overwhelming majority seem to be criticising the parents decision for taking the child to the concert rather than the actual swearing by Townshend. It's not a teenage child, she's 7. Rock concerts are great but parents really need to exercise thought on where to take children. 7 is far too young. I don't think I've ever seen a small child at a rock or metal concert before (except for families open air festivals). Young teenagers yes, but never 7 year olds.

*edited to add my 'stupid' comment was directed at the age of the child taken, not that anyone would be 'stupid' for seeing those bands. Quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: CakeBeret on March 05, 2013, 02:09:13 PM
As a great rock concert fan, I: (a) would not take a single-digit child to a rock concert, (b) would not be surprised if my child were sworn at, if I did take him, and (c) would certainly not expect the musicians to treat my child any differently than they would treat any other concertgoer.

IMO the parent is at fault here. Don't take your child to a rock concert and expect them to get special consideration because they're a child! If an adult had held the same sign, Townshend would probably have said "F*** you" to that adult, so I don't see any real issue here.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tilt Fairy on March 05, 2013, 02:12:26 PM
As a great rock concert fan, I: (a) would not take a single-digit child to a rock concert, (b) would not be surprised if my child were sworn at, if I did take him, and (c) would certainly not expect the musicians to treat my child any differently than they would treat any other concertgoer.

IMO the parent is at fault here. Don't take your child to a rock concert and expect them to get special consideration because they're a child! If an adult had held the same sign, Townshend would probably have said "F*** you" to that adult, so I don't see any real issue here.

POD 100%. As an adult, when I go to a rock or metal concert I pretty much expect to be sworn at at least once. After I graduated uni, me and a couple of girlfriends followed Metallica around for a bit on tour (from afar!) as we were a bit in love with them and I saw things at their gigs that I wouldn't even wish on the eyes of adults! :)
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: lowspark on March 05, 2013, 02:30:28 PM
This is the second thread in as many days regarding taking young children to places they don't belong. This behavior is getting to be an epidemic. What happened to the days when kids stayed at home with a babysitter when Mom & Dad went out? When my kids were little, if I couldn't get a babysitter I stayed home. The norm seems to be trending toward taking any kid of any age everywhere, appropriate or not, and I find that disturbing.

As far as the stupidity of taking a young child to a rock concert, I'm wondering about whether the extremely loud music is harmful to those young ears.

I don't think an apology was due to this family.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Onyx_TKD on March 05, 2013, 02:53:33 PM
As a great rock concert fan, I: (a) would not take a single-digit child to a rock concert, (b) would not be surprised if my child were sworn at, if I did take him, and (c) would certainly not expect the musicians to treat my child any differently than they would treat any other concertgoer.

IMO the parent is at fault here. Don't take your child to a rock concert and expect them to get special consideration because they're a child! If an adult had held the same sign, Townshend would probably have said "F*** you" to that adult, so I don't see any real issue here.

By my reading, the cursing was actually directed at the adult accompanying the child anyway. The article said the statement was
Quote
Don’t bring your children…I want to tell you two words, but I can’t because you’ve got a child there.
The girl's dad apparently said "Nobody talks to my seven-year-old daughter like that." Well, sir, no one did. He talked to you like that, and only mouthed the words because your seven-year-old was present. I'm definitely not sympathetic to the girl's parents here.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: BeagleMommy on March 05, 2013, 02:58:45 PM
I've been to many concerts of differing types of music.  Everything from Sha Na Na, to Loverboy, to Daughtry (still hoping to get Maroon5 tickets!).  Anyone naive enought to take a 7-year-old to a rock concert shouldn't be surprised by what they get.  I don't think Pete Townsend need to apologize, but I think it was very classy of him to do so.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Hillia on March 05, 2013, 04:44:28 PM
Reminds me of an act that we used to see at the AZ Renaissance Faire, the Tortuga Twins.  Their shows bordered on naughty, but the final show of hte day was definitely adult oriented.  They announced it multiple times before the show, they unrolled huge banners saying 'R Rated Show!!!!', in short they made a Huge Stinking Deal out of the fact that the show would not be appropriate for kids.  And every year we would see several parents with young kids, 8 or 9 and younger, at the final show of hte day.  Never saw anyone getting cranky about it, and I'm pretty sure the Twins didn't modify their act any, but it always made me wonder.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: crella on March 05, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
More than the child's age, the child's sign referenced something he used to do,something that she was not even alive to see, and probably would not care to see. The father was using his daughter to prompt Townshend into doing something he wanted to see, probably thinking he wouldn't refuse a child.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: MariaE on March 06, 2013, 12:18:03 AM
Wow.  I'm actually very upset Townsend apologized.  I mean understand why did and all, but it just sets a terrible precedence.  That parent was wrong in so many ways, and the reality is Townsend didn't even actually curse.  He merely mouthed the words.  And words the child shouldn't really understand anyway.

That was my thought as well. And even if he had said it out loud, it was obviously aimed at the father, not at the kid.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: JonGirl on March 06, 2013, 04:45:04 AM
As a great rock concert fan, I: (a) would not take a single-digit child to a rock concert, (b) would not be surprised if my child were sworn at, if I did take him, and (c) would certainly not expect the musicians to treat my child any differently than they would treat any other concertgoer.

IMO the parent is at fault here. Don't take your child to a rock concert and expect them to get special consideration because they're a child! If an adult had held the same sign, Townshend would probably have said "F*** you" to that adult, so I don't see any real issue here.

I agree! My son (8) wants to one day see Tom Petty do a show and I would absolutely take him, he knows the sort of crowd certain acts get and he acts accordingly...
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: VltGrantham on March 06, 2013, 10:45:26 AM
Quote
Never saw anyone getting cranky about it, and I'm pretty sure the Twins didn't modify their act any, but it always made me wonder.

Obviously parents in AZ have better sense than most in our area or, at the very least, visiting our area.

However, there is a place we go to every year that is peppered with over 15 signs, public announcements, program announcements (including a rating system), and signs at the door saying "this show is not recommended for children."  Yet, every year, parents take their children and become offended.  They flock to Facebook to bash the establishment.  I'm so sick of it, I stop the feed for those months.  Last year, I had a woman in front of me who wanted to take her child through the haunted house, but asked the attendant to walk ahead of us warning the "scare squad" not to jump out and scare her kid.  We had quite the scene when I told her that perhaps if her child couldn't take it, she shouldn't be going through, because we didn't want our experience ruined either.  She remarked that we obviously did not have children to which DH replied "As a matter of fact we do and she is home, where she belongs, because this is not age-appropriate for children."

My point is, is that this is one of the reasons why as a parent you get "the look" wherever you take your children these days that aren't specifically "child-type" places (i.e., Chuck-E-Cheese, kids playground, Gymboree classes); because the ones out there who think society should bend for them all the time, especially at what most people would consider to be "adult-only" events, have basically ruined it for those of us who are responsible.

I am glad that he apologized, but at the same time, I fear this does nothing but encourage others to take offense and that which they shouldn't and use it as fodder to start an international incident over a molehill.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: luvmyboys on March 06, 2013, 02:36:40 PM
I have to disagree with most of the posters here and I give kudos to Pete T for apologizing.  7 is probably too young but we started taking our son to rock concerts when he was 9.  He is a very talented drummer and loves classic rock music.   He has seen Rush 2x, Bon Jovi and The Who and I just ordered tickets for Fleetwood Mac (can't wait).  Now we would never sit in the Orchestra as we know that that is where people stand and it can get out of hand.  We choose our seats carefully and have special noise cancelling earplugs to protect his hearing.  I have seen several other children at these concerts.  I don't expect anyone to cater to my son but I would be really annoyed if anyone mouthed FU to him.  This Dad used poor judgement but hopefully he learned a lesson about taking appropriate precautions to shield his dd.   
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Surianne on March 06, 2013, 03:07:15 PM
My dad took me to rock concerts as a kid (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, etc).  I loved it.  So I'm not sure why posters consider it an inappropriate place for children, as long as the venue doesn't have an age limit (for example, there were 19+ shows at some bars he couldn't take me to). 

The difference is, my father fully expected I would be exposed to swearing, adult themes, etc.  I remember when I was 10, the people in front of us offered my dad a joint -- until they noticed me sitting next to him.  We all laughed it off.  No big deal.

I don't think Townsend needed to apologize, but it was likely a smart move.  But at the same time, I don't agree with posters in this thread saying kids can't attend rock concerts.  As long as the kid is well-behaved and the parents don't take issue with the content, I think children can enjoy music just as much as adults.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: afbluebelle on March 06, 2013, 05:06:12 PM
  But at the same time, I don't agree with posters in this thread saying kids can't attend rock concerts.  As long as the kid is well-behaved and the parents don't take issue with the content, I think children can enjoy music just as much as adults.

They can, but for every well behaved kid I've seen at a rock concert, there are over 9000 that was a disaster in the making. Heck, I ended up getting a good pummeling for the well behaved ones because the band invited them near the stage and the little gremlins were getting pummeled by the normal crowd. They were some groovy kids though... they showed up in costume and everything! (Aquabats concert)
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: CakeBeret on March 06, 2013, 05:19:42 PM
My dad took me to rock concerts as a kid (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, etc).  I loved it.  So I'm not sure why posters consider it an inappropriate place for children, as long as the venue doesn't have an age limit (for example, there were 19+ shows at some bars he couldn't take me to). 

The difference is, my father fully expected I would be exposed to swearing, adult themes, etc.  I remember when I was 10, the people in front of us offered my dad a joint -- until they noticed me sitting next to him.  We all laughed it off.  No big deal.

I don't think Townsend needed to apologize, but it was likely a smart move.  But at the same time, I don't agree with posters in this thread saying kids can't attend rock concerts.  As long as the kid is well-behaved and the parents don't take issue with the content, I think children can enjoy music just as much as adults.

I posted above that I wouldn't take a single-digit child to a rock concert. I would start considering it around age 10-12 depending on the band, the venue, and the child. I would wait until my son is older to take him to certain concerts (I'm thinking of the time I saw Stone Sour: there were lots of drugs, lots of moshing, I'd say 70% of the crowd was drunk, and one young lady left in an ambulance), but there are others I've been to where the crowd was pretty mild and respectful of each other. I should clarify that when I go to a rock concert, I stand in the pit; my opinion would be different if we got seats.

I personally wouldn't want my 10 year old watching joints being passed around, which has happened at almost every rock concert I've been to. So that's one strong factor in why I would find it inappropriate for my child.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Surianne on March 06, 2013, 07:02:58 PM
My dad took me to rock concerts as a kid (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, etc).  I loved it.  So I'm not sure why posters consider it an inappropriate place for children, as long as the venue doesn't have an age limit (for example, there were 19+ shows at some bars he couldn't take me to). 

The difference is, my father fully expected I would be exposed to swearing, adult themes, etc.  I remember when I was 10, the people in front of us offered my dad a joint -- until they noticed me sitting next to him.  We all laughed it off.  No big deal.

I don't think Townsend needed to apologize, but it was likely a smart move.  But at the same time, I don't agree with posters in this thread saying kids can't attend rock concerts.  As long as the kid is well-behaved and the parents don't take issue with the content, I think children can enjoy music just as much as adults.

I posted above that I wouldn't take a single-digit child to a rock concert. I would start considering it around age 10-12 depending on the band, the venue, and the child. I would wait until my son is older to take him to certain concerts (I'm thinking of the time I saw Stone Sour: there were lots of drugs, lots of moshing, I'd say 70% of the crowd was drunk, and one young lady left in an ambulance), but there are others I've been to where the crowd was pretty mild and respectful of each other. I should clarify that when I go to a rock concert, I stand in the pit; my opinion would be different if we got seats.

I personally wouldn't want my 10 year old watching joints being passed around, which has happened at almost every rock concert I've been to. So that's one strong factor in why I would find it inappropriate for my child.

That makes sense. The rock concerts I went to as a single-digit kid were all classic rock bands, so it was seating and no mosh pits -- hippies in their 50s were the main audience.  I wouldn't take a kid to a general admission standing concert, simply because of their size.

The joint thing probably depends on your culture/nationality; to me it was along the same lines as alcohol ("We don't do this until we're 19") rather than something a kid shouldn't see.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tabby Uprising on March 06, 2013, 07:44:47 PM
My dad took me to rock concerts as a kid (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, etc).  I loved it.  So I'm not sure why posters consider it an inappropriate place for children, as long as the venue doesn't have an age limit (for example, there were 19+ shows at some bars he couldn't take me to). 

The difference is, my father fully expected I would be exposed to swearing, adult themes, etc.  I remember when I was 10, the people in front of us offered my dad a joint -- until they noticed me sitting next to him.  We all laughed it off.  No big deal.

I don't think Townsend needed to apologize, but it was likely a smart move.  But at the same time, I don't agree with posters in this thread saying kids can't attend rock concerts.  As long as the kid is well-behaved and the parents don't take issue with the content, I think children can enjoy music just as much as adults.

Well you pretty much summed up my point of view  :D   I completely agree with posters who don't think Townsend needed to apologize, but in general I don't see kids at rock concerts as being a stupid parenting decision.  I haven't crossed that bridge with my kid yet and quite frankly, right now a concert is a great excuse for a date night!  I always get seated tickets at concerts so no moshing.  I've never seen any flashing going on either.  Some guy passed my friend and I a joint at a Pink Floyd concert, but we said "no thanks" and that's the extent of my drug experience at concerts.  As for swearing and drinking?  Well, there's a lot of that at sports events too. So for me, the atmosphere I have been exposed to at Tom Petty concerts, The Cure, Fleetwood Mac, and even Pink Floyd isn't so crazy that I'd not bring my child along.  Even Nine Inch Nails was just music and people bopping along to it in the seats.  Maybe I just attract mild mannered people  ;D

Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tilt Fairy on March 07, 2013, 01:14:32 AM
Yeah I think there's a massive difference depending on the kind of gig or concert you go to. A Who or Fleetwood Mac or Bruce Springsteen or Eric Clapton or Pink Floyd gig is going to have a completely different atmosphere because of the genre of music and the demographic of the audience.Venues to see bands like this will usually be in bigger concert halls and arenas and will most likely have a lot of seating tickets. A bit like a sporting event. The standing fans near the front of the stage will be enthusiastic but were not exactly talking circle pit here because of the nature/genre of music and fan demographic.

Other huge bands such as Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, The Sex Pistols, The Clash, Nirvana, System of a Down, Tool, Slayer, Slipknot, Metallica for example will have completely different atmospheres and fans because of their respective genres. It's rare for them to play in venues where the majority of fans would be seated or they play open air more frequently. But actually, come to think of it, from memory of going to some of the aboves gig, they've all been 18+ anyway (or at least 16+). Taking a 7 year old to one of these and they'd end up crushed. Literally.

I do however think in this instance a 7 year old is too young to take to a Who concert. Massive difference between an eleven year old than a seven year old. As the dad did choose to take her, he should have some realistic expectation of what a child might be exposed to or witness at any rock concert whether it be substances, pushing and shoving, noise or colourful language.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: VltGrantham on March 07, 2013, 07:56:33 AM
Quote
I have to disagree with most of the posters here and I give kudos to Pete T for apologizing.  7 is probably too young but we started taking our son to rock concerts when he was 9.  He is a very talented drummer and loves classic rock music.   He has seen Rush 2x, Bon Jovi and The Who and I just ordered tickets for Fleetwood Mac (can't wait).  Now we would never sit in the Orchestra as we know that that is where people stand and it can get out of hand.  We choose our seats carefully and have special noise cancelling earplugs to protect his hearing.  I have seen several other children at these concerts.  I don't expect anyone to cater to my son but I would be really annoyed if anyone mouthed FU to him.  This Dad used poor judgement but hopefully he learned a lesson about taking appropriate precautions to shield his dd.

I think the point is that he mouthed FU to the Dad here and the daughter caught it because she was seated on Dad's shoulders.  At least he didn't say the words.  His behavior, while definitely not polite, is not exactly unheard of for a rock concert either.  We had parents in droves complaining about a rocker repeatedly dropping the F bomb during a concert here because, well, families were there!  Then don't take your children to a rock concert!

If I were stuck next to a parent at a Fresh Beat Band concert or the Wiggles or something kiddy who was cursing, that would be one thing.  And I'm sorry to say that I still believe that the Dad was using his kid to get attention and then get irritated when the attention wasn't the kind which he desired.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Kiara on March 07, 2013, 09:20:37 AM
I have to disagree with most of the posters here and I give kudos to Pete T for apologizing.  7 is probably too young but we started taking our son to rock concerts when he was 9.  He is a very talented drummer and loves classic rock music.   He has seen Rush 2x, Bon Jovi and The Who and I just ordered tickets for Fleetwood Mac (can't wait).  Now we would never sit in the Orchestra as we know that that is where people stand and it can get out of hand.  We choose our seats carefully and have special noise cancelling earplugs to protect his hearing.  I have seen several other children at these concerts.  I don't expect anyone to cater to my son but I would be really annoyed if anyone mouthed FU to him.  This Dad used poor judgement but hopefully he learned a lesson about taking appropriate precautions to shield his dd.

I'd argue that seeing Rush and Bon Jovi is an entirely different animal.  Bon Jovi, I'd expect kids.  Rush, I expect kids - I see dads and their sons a lot when I go, and they're usually in the same sections I am.  (Usually not moms, which can be fun - only show where there's no line for the ladies' room at intermission!   ;D)  I'd put Fleetwood Mac in this category too.  While people stand up and jam on air guitar, there's no real....what's the word here....bad behavior.

The Who?  I wouldn't expect kids.  I'd expect some bad behavior, at the minimum I'd expect people to be drunk.  Interestingly, I'd expect the same at a Dave Matthews concert.  I've seen them over 15 times, and I would NEVER take a kid.  Too many chances for something to go wrong.  If people want to being their children, I don't have a problem with it, but know what the heck you're getting into.

(I'd argue the same for NASCAR races.  If you go, there will be drinking, there will be swearing, and there will be yelling.  Get used to it.)
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Shoo on March 07, 2013, 09:40:21 AM
What, exactly, did the dad do to warrant Pete Townsend saying that to him?  He had a sign, he was asked to put it away.  Did he refuse, or start waving it madly around to be a jerk? 

I am an adult, and I would not like it one bit if a performer that I had paid good money to see had spoken (or mouthed) that way to me. 

You're a big rock star, but that doesn't give you the right to be a complete jerk to your fans.  I'm glad he apologized, but IMO, he should have apologized for being crass and rude to a fan, regardless of that fan's age.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: whatsanenigma on March 07, 2013, 10:30:25 AM
What, exactly, did the dad do to warrant Pete Townsend saying that to him?  He had a sign, he was asked to put it away.  Did he refuse, or start waving it madly around to be a jerk? 

I am an adult, and I would not like it one bit if a performer that I had paid good money to see had spoken (or mouthed) that way to me. 

You're a big rock star, but that doesn't give you the right to be a complete jerk to your fans.  I'm glad he apologized, but IMO, he should have apologized for being crass and rude to a fan, regardless of that fan's age.

I know absolutely nothing about Pete Townsend, but I am wondering if the fact that he doesn't smash guitars any more is something he considers common knowledge.  Is it something he says a lot in public or on some kind of fan page or such a thing?  It's even possible he's said directly that anyone holding a sign asking him to do that will be called out on it. 

If it is the case that not many people know about this, then he couldn't expect that anyone would know it in advance and should have said politely, "Sorry, not going to do that" or such.  It wouldn't have warrented anger.  But if he's been saying it and saying it and for a long time...well, maybe it could be considered that the Dad was warned in advance and chose not to heed the warning.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tilt Fairy on March 07, 2013, 11:06:25 AM
What, exactly, did the dad do to warrant Pete Townsend saying that to him?  He had a sign, he was asked to put it away.  Did he refuse, or start waving it madly around to be a jerk? 

I am an adult, and I would not like it one bit if a performer that I had paid good money to see had spoken (or mouthed) that way to me. 

You're a big rock star, but that doesn't give you the right to be a complete jerk to your fans.  I'm glad he apologized, but IMO, he should have apologized for being crass and rude to a fan, regardless of that fan's age.

I know absolutely nothing about Pete Townsend, but I am wondering if the fact that he doesn't smash guitars any more is something he considers common knowledge.  Is it something he says a lot in public or on some kind of fan page or such a thing?  It's even possible he's said directly that anyone holding a sign asking him to do that will be called out on it. 

If it is the case that not many people know about this, then he couldn't expect that anyone would know it in advance and should have said politely, "Sorry, not going to do that" or such.  It wouldn't have warrented anger.  But if he's been saying it and saying it and for a long time...well, maybe it could be considered that the Dad was warned in advance and chose not to heed the warning.

Good point. I guess it was quite a provocative sign for him considering he has a lot of regrets about his past. I'm sort of 50/50 whether the Dad was unaware that Pete wouldn't find it amusing if he saw the sign or whether the Dad was deliberately being provocative/attempting to be funny/nostalgic/defiant by making the sign (probably most likely). Regardless, I reckon he thought it would be "cuter" if his 7 year old daughter was holding the sign. Like a 7 year old would know anything about the past or background of The Who let alone anything about Pete Townsend! I think the Dad was not cool regarding any of this.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: VltGrantham on March 07, 2013, 12:54:26 PM
I've watched the video about half a dozen times and it seems like he is saying "Don't bring your children down here." and that the man persisted--at which point he says "There's something I'd like to say to you, but can't because you've a child with you."

(That's paraphrasing.)

I can agree that I wouldn't be happy if a performer I paid to see told me that.  However, I still think there's mitigating circumstances here and that his reaction was not an over-reaction.  He didn't go crazy or scream and he clearly told the guy "don't bring your children down here."

The Dad claims he spoke to his daughter that way when he didn't.  He spoke to the Father--which is wrong--but I still think it's idiotic to take your child to a rock concert and expect everything to be for their hearing.  I'm not familiar with the Who's music, but a quick Google check brought me several of their songs and their meanings.

I find it just a little bit bemusing that your child hearing the F bomb is so awful, but apparently exposing them to songs like "A Quick One While He's Away" about an extra-marital affair, teen-age wasteland, sex, or drug use is okey-dokey.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Redneck Gravy on March 07, 2013, 01:30:33 PM
My dad took me to rock concerts as a kid (Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, etc).  I loved it.  So I'm not sure why posters consider it an inappropriate place for children, as long as the venue doesn't have an age limit (for example, there were 19+ shows at some bars he couldn't take me to). 

The difference is, my father fully expected I would be exposed to swearing, adult themes, etc.  I remember when I was 10, the people in front of us offered my dad a joint -- until they noticed me sitting next to him.  We all laughed it off.  No big deal.

I don't think Townsend needed to apologize, but it was likely a smart move.  But at the same time, I don't agree with posters in this thread saying kids can't attend rock concerts.  As long as the kid is well-behaved and the parents don't take issue with the content, I think children can enjoy music just as much as adults.

I started going to concerts when I was 11 - my biomom was a major wild hippie chick and loved live music.  She drug me to Doobie Bros, Bad Company & ZZ Top.  On the other hand I am a huge country fan so I drug her to Charlie Pride, Merle Haggard & Moe Bandy.  I wouldn't do that with my kids but at that point in my life it was just the two of us (briefly) and this is what we wanted to do.  After she remarried he wouldn't let her go anywhere and that was basically the end of her concert attendance. 

I was raised by my very dysfunctional grandparents until I was 11 and I saw some things most adults never see.  I rarely drink and do not do any recreational drugs - but I've seen tons of that stuff!  It's just not my thing and never has been but I've seen it all.

A 7 year old - not appropriate in my opinion.   
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: artk2002 on March 07, 2013, 02:33:33 PM
I have to disagree with most of the posters here and I give kudos to Pete T for apologizing.  7 is probably too young but we started taking our son to rock concerts when he was 9.  He is a very talented drummer and loves classic rock music.   He has seen Rush 2x, Bon Jovi and The Who and I just ordered tickets for Fleetwood Mac (can't wait).  Now we would never sit in the Orchestra as we know that that is where people stand and it can get out of hand.  We choose our seats carefully and have special noise cancelling earplugs to protect his hearing.  I have seen several other children at these concerts.  I don't expect anyone to cater to my son but I would be really annoyed if anyone mouthed FU to him.  This Dad used poor judgement but hopefully he learned a lesson about taking appropriate precautions to shield his dd.

For me, it's not so much taking a child to a rock concert, it's taking a child and getting upset that they have been exposed to whatever happens there. If your kid can deal with all that, then I'm fine with it. In general, though, a single-digit child isn't mature enough to deal with that stuff. Yours may be, but yours is a likely exception.

Pete shouldn't have apologized because he did nothing at all wrong. His behavior was completely normal for a rock concert. The dad was entirely wrong to bring that child and then get upset.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Redneck Gravy on March 07, 2013, 02:42:07 PM
“Go away with that sign please, just go away with it, just go away with it. Don’t bring your children…I want to tell you two words, but I can’t because you’ve got a child there,” he said into the microphone. He then mouthed the words “f**k you.”

Afterwards, Jenny’s father, Eric Costello, had a few choice words for the musician. “Nobody talks to my seven-year-old daughter like that,” Costello told the Toronto Sun. “I expect a 70-something-year-old man to respect the fact that there’s a seven-year-old girl standing in front of him…I’d like [Townshend] to know in some small way, he broke a little girl’s heart.”


I'm not clear how Townshend broke her heart - because he swore in front of her (not at her) or because he refused to smash his guitar? 

Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: luvmyboys on March 07, 2013, 07:03:49 PM
I have to disagree with most of the posters here and I give kudos to Pete T for apologizing.  7 is probably too young but we started taking our son to rock concerts when he was 9.  He is a very talented drummer and loves classic rock music.   He has seen Rush 2x, Bon Jovi and The Who and I just ordered tickets for Fleetwood Mac (can't wait).  Now we would never sit in the Orchestra as we know that that is where people stand and it can get out of hand.  We choose our seats carefully and have special noise cancelling earplugs to protect his hearing.  I have seen several other children at these concerts.  I don't expect anyone to cater to my son but I would be really annoyed if anyone mouthed FU to him.  This Dad used poor judgement but hopefully he learned a lesson about taking appropriate precautions to shield his dd.

For me, it's not so much taking a child to a rock concert, it's taking a child and getting upset that they have been exposed to whatever happens there. If your kid can deal with all that, then I'm fine with it. In general, though, a single-digit child isn't mature enough to deal with that stuff. Yours may be, but yours is a likely exception.

Pete shouldn't have apologized because he did nothing at all wrong. His behavior was completely normal for a rock concert. The dad was entirely wrong to bring that child and then get upset.
I get what you are saying.   I was responding to several posters that said kids have no place at rock concerts.   And you are correct, my son (now almost 12) is an exception as he is very mature and a rock aficionado.  My youngest is now 9 and I wouldn't dream of taking him at this point. 
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: WillyNilly on March 07, 2013, 10:35:54 PM
What, exactly, did the dad do to warrant Pete Townsend saying that to him?  He had a sign, he was asked to put it away.  Did he refuse, or start waving it madly around to be a jerk? 

I am an adult, and I would not like it one bit if a performer that I had paid good money to see had spoken (or mouthed) that way to me. 

You're a big rock star, but that doesn't give you the right to be a complete jerk to your fans.  I'm glad he apologized, but IMO, he should have apologized for being crass and rude to a fan, regardless of that fan's age.

I know absolutely nothing about Pete Townsend, but I am wondering if the fact that he doesn't smash guitars any more is something he considers common knowledge.  Is it something he says a lot in public or on some kind of fan page or such a thing?  It's even possible he's said directly that anyone holding a sign asking him to do that will be called out on it. 

If it is the case that not many people know about this, then he couldn't expect that anyone would know it in advance and should have said politely, "Sorry, not going to do that" or such.  It wouldn't have warrented anger.  But if he's been saying it and saying it and for a long time...well, maybe it could be considered that the Dad was warned in advance and chose not to heed the warning.

Well I think regardless of whether he still smashed guitars or not A) a person on someone's shoulder's holding up a sign is obnoxious at a concert - its blocking the view of hundreds of other people B) its obnoxious to tell the performer how to do his job. This wasn't a jam session, nor is Pete Townsend a young buck - this was a rehearsed and planned performance for thousands of paying fans. His obligations are to his band and his audience as a whole, not to one demanding fan.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Shoo on March 08, 2013, 08:41:02 AM
What, exactly, did the dad do to warrant Pete Townsend saying that to him?  He had a sign, he was asked to put it away.  Did he refuse, or start waving it madly around to be a jerk? 

I am an adult, and I would not like it one bit if a performer that I had paid good money to see had spoken (or mouthed) that way to me. 

You're a big rock star, but that doesn't give you the right to be a complete jerk to your fans.  I'm glad he apologized, but IMO, he should have apologized for being crass and rude to a fan, regardless of that fan's age.

I know absolutely nothing about Pete Townsend, but I am wondering if the fact that he doesn't smash guitars any more is something he considers common knowledge.  Is it something he says a lot in public or on some kind of fan page or such a thing?  It's even possible he's said directly that anyone holding a sign asking him to do that will be called out on it. 

If it is the case that not many people know about this, then he couldn't expect that anyone would know it in advance and should have said politely, "Sorry, not going to do that" or such.  It wouldn't have warrented anger.  But if he's been saying it and saying it and for a long time...well, maybe it could be considered that the Dad was warned in advance and chose not to heed the warning.

Well I think regardless of whether he still smashed guitars or not A) a person on someone's shoulder's holding up a sign is obnoxious at a concert - its blocking the view of hundreds of other people B) its obnoxious to tell the performer how to do his job. This wasn't a jam session, nor is Pete Townsend a young buck - this was a rehearsed and planned performance for thousands of paying fans. His obligations are to his band and his audience as a whole, not to one demanding fan.

So the obvious response isn't to have the sign taken away, or even to just ignore it?  The obvious response is to mouth something obscene to the fan?  That's what I don't get.  To me, that is not okay.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Redneck Gravy on March 08, 2013, 08:47:50 AM
I agree that Pete could have handled the situation better but I'm still in awe that the Dad felt he was entitled to wave an annoying (to other concert attendees) sign, bring a young child to an inappropriate venue and then claim the child was heartbroken because Pete didn't smash his guitar like the princess or Dad wanted...

I still don't believe a 7 year old belongs at a rock concert with a group that has a reputation for acting like stereotypical rock bands from the 60's & 70's. 

Again, how exactly did Pete Townshend "break her heart" ?
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: TurtleDove on March 08, 2013, 09:32:24 AM
So the obvious response isn't to have the sign taken away, or even to just ignore it?  The obvious response is to mouth something obscene to the fan?  That's what I don't get.  To me, that is not okay.

I don't know much about The Who, but I would imagine saying "F you" during a concert is not uncommon, and in this context I don't even consider it obscene.  It is a performance.  To me it would be like taking a child to see Eminem and then being upset that Eminem talked like, well, like Eminem.  Or taking a child to see Snoop Dogg (sorry, Snoop Lion) and then getting upset that he talks about smoking weed.  Or taking a child to see Britney Spears and getting upset that several of her songs involve her referring to herself as "Britney B_tch."  It is what they do.  It is expected.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Tilt Fairy on March 08, 2013, 09:51:40 AM
It would be absolutely exhausting to scrutinise all the etiquette faux-pas of a rock concert. Expletives are part of the subculture. Of course it's a generalisation but in the world of sex, drugs and rock n'roll, pretty much every sentence is going to contain an expletive. It's a lifestyle. People don't even see it as anything rude or shocking anymore because it's such traditional behaviour. Getting sworn at by a rock legend isn't even seen as an insult but probably more a general flow of typical conversation. Not only do people expect lewd behaviour, it's cherished amongst rock legends. Fans brush it off or cheer when they're sworn to. I see rock musicians swearing at people in the crowd all the time, swearing at everything, swearing at the crowd collectively - everyone expects it, everyone understands, everyone enjoys it - it's part of the subculture.

Of course there are varying degrees between bands on the scale of how family orientated they are in comparison to how teenage angst/stick it to the man they are. The Who is an adult band. Pete Townshead is a colourful character. It's gonna happen. I wouldn't blink an eye if I got sworn at by a rocker whether it be out of contempt or adoration. I just brush it under the umbrella of "awww rock musicians". A  bit like the "boys will be boys!" sentiment. Of course swearing is rude but it's expected, it's common, it's frequent and it embodies the whole anarchist subculture. There would be no good rock music if bands acted like Miss Manners.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Redneck Gravy on March 08, 2013, 10:23:53 AM
So the obvious response isn't to have the sign taken away, or even to just ignore it?  The obvious response is to mouth something obscene to the fan?  That's what I don't get.  To me, that is not okay.

I don't know much about The Who, but I would imagine saying "F you" during a concert is not uncommon, and in this context I don't even consider it obscene.  It is a performance.  To me it would be like taking a child to see Eminem and then being upset that Eminem talked like, well, like Eminem.  Or taking a child to see Snoop Dogg (sorry, Snoop Lion) and then getting upset that he talks about smoking weed.  Or taking a child to see Britney Spears and getting upset that several of her songs involve her referring to herself as "Britney B_tch."  It is what they do.  It is expected.

Exactly my point also !
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: lowspark on March 08, 2013, 11:04:20 AM
Yeah. It's so silly. This guy clearly wanted to get noticed by Townshend. He did. Now he's mad about it. Seriously, what did he expect, for him and his daughter to get invited on stage? Buddy, get over yourself!
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Kiara on March 08, 2013, 11:33:59 AM
So the obvious response isn't to have the sign taken away, or even to just ignore it?  The obvious response is to mouth something obscene to the fan?  That's what I don't get.  To me, that is not okay.

I don't know much about The Who, but I would imagine saying "F you" during a concert is not uncommon, and in this context I don't even consider it obscene.  It is a performance.  To me it would be like taking a child to see Eminem and then being upset that Eminem talked like, well, like Eminem.  Or taking a child to see Snoop Dogg (sorry, Snoop Lion) and then getting upset that he talks about smoking weed.  Or taking a child to see Britney Spears and getting upset that several of her songs involve her referring to herself as "Britney B_tch."  It is what they do.  It is expected.

Very well said.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: nolechica on March 10, 2013, 10:02:41 PM
So the obvious response isn't to have the sign taken away, or even to just ignore it?  The obvious response is to mouth something obscene to the fan?  That's what I don't get.  To me, that is not okay.

I don't know much about The Who, but I would imagine saying "F you" during a concert is not uncommon, and in this context I don't even consider it obscene.  It is a performance.  To me it would be like taking a child to see Eminem and then being upset that Eminem talked like, well, like Eminem.  Or taking a child to see Snoop Dogg (sorry, Snoop Lion) and then getting upset that he talks about smoking weed.  Or taking a child to see Britney Spears and getting upset that several of her songs involve her referring to herself as "Britney B_tch."  It is what they do.  It is expected.

POD!
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: artk2002 on March 10, 2013, 11:09:16 PM
Dad needs to stop using his daughter as a proxy. First to get Townsend's attention and then later to express his own disappointment. Buddy, own it. You're disappointed that Pete didn't think you were cool. Don't try to get sympathy by saying that your daughter was "heartbroken." And, if she really was unhappy, the fault lies with you for getting her hopes up.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Twik on March 11, 2013, 10:28:59 AM
So the obvious response isn't to have the sign taken away, or even to just ignore it?  The obvious response is to mouth something obscene to the fan?  That's what I don't get.  To me, that is not okay.

I don't know much about The Who, but I would imagine saying "F you" during a concert is not uncommon, and in this context I don't even consider it obscene.  It is a performance.  To me it would be like taking a child to see Eminem and then being upset that Eminem talked like, well, like Eminem.  Or taking a child to see Snoop Dogg (sorry, Snoop Lion) and then getting upset that he talks about smoking weed.  Or taking a child to see Britney Spears and getting upset that several of her songs involve her referring to herself as "Britney B_tch."  It is what they do.  It is expected.

POD!

For those who don't know, this is the Who, in their heyday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q63XogYTIcc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q63XogYTIcc). I hope this explains the "guitar smashing" reference.

To assume, however, because Townshend is now much older that he would be a laid-back grandfather is foolish. He's still co-leader of the Who, that's why you went to see him!

The only difference is that the young Townshend would not have apologized.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: VltGrantham on March 11, 2013, 10:32:01 AM
Quote
The only difference is that the young Townshend would not have apologized.

I'm not so sure the older one should have either.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: mbbored on March 11, 2013, 10:34:34 AM
Dad needs to stop using his daughter as a proxy. First to get Townsend's attention and then later to express his own disappointment. Buddy, own it. You're disappointed that Pete didn't think you were cool. Don't try to get sympathy by saying that your daughter was "heartbroken." And, if she really was unhappy, the fault lies with you for getting her hopes up.

Excellent point, artk2002.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Twik on March 11, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
Quote
The only difference is that the young Townshend would not have apologized.

I'm not so sure the older one should have either.

No, but he's older, and perhaps feels that "Hey, the audience pays my way, it doesn't hurt to apologize." The young one wouldn't have mouthed the words, either. And the father should have known it! Guitar-smashers aren't paragons of gentility when they're off the stage.

By the way, in the clip I linked to, you may note that (1) the incident at the end was the start of Townshend's hearing problems, and (2) when you see Keith Moon moaning in pain on the ground, it's because he was hurt from flying debris, not playing around. Of course, he was the one who packed in more explosives than the crew had intended, just for the lulz.

Probably one of the best live TV performances EVER!
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: VltGrantham on March 11, 2013, 11:18:12 AM
Quote
No, but he's older, and perhaps feels that "Hey, the audience pays my way, it doesn't hurt to apologize."

Yeah, I agree.  I really do. 

I'm just starting to think that the internet may be the denizen of evil that my Mother claims it to be.  We're all exactly one photograph, one posting, one viral video away from complete and utter disaster.  It used to be that your flub-ups, etc., were confined to the situation and now what is a small incident, becomes a huge monstrosity.

I see it on Facebook all the time--people posting videos, photographs, etc., slamming businesses, etc., without getting the first idea of what the problem really is or even verifying the information before just passing it on.  And sometimes it really does ruin people's lives and businesses.

That's kinda off the track here, but...sorry, I digress!
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: CakeBeret on March 11, 2013, 11:22:07 AM
Dad needs to stop using his daughter as a proxy. First to get Townsend's attention and then later to express his own disappointment. Buddy, own it. You're disappointed that Pete didn't think you were cool. Don't try to get sympathy by saying that your daughter was "heartbroken." And, if she really was unhappy, the fault lies with you for getting her hopes up.

Art is, as always, wise. ;)
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Twik on March 11, 2013, 11:29:06 AM
I wonder if Dad stopped to think, "this is a rock band where two founding members died of overdoses, and one came extremely close. They were known in their heyday for smashing everything within reach (including once attacking a policeman who came on stage to warn that the theatre was on fire). Perhaps "child friendly" does not best describe them."
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Redneck Gravy on March 11, 2013, 12:44:41 PM
I wonder if Dad stopped to think, "this is a rock band where two founding members died of overdoses, and one came extremely close. They were known in their heyday for smashing everything within reach (including once attacking a policeman who came on stage to warn that the theatre was on fire). Perhaps "child friendly" does not best describe them."

doubtful
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: snowdragon on March 11, 2013, 08:38:51 PM
Children at concerts are increasingly common - many parents are great about, others not so much. Most of the concerts I have been to are in bars, lots of alcohol, sometimes drugs. The first group of parents realize this and make sure their kids are prepared, know to stay out of the dancing ( or moshing area) and don't use their kids to get special privileges. The second group uses their kid to push up front, declare that there.shall be.NO.drinking.of.any.kind. and and gets upset when the band speaks like they do on their records. This father seems to be the second group.
  Here's why I think so: He was told not to bring the kid up front, did so anyhow. Second he put her on his shoulders, blocking anyone behind him for several rows from seeing the show they paid to see. Then gave her a sign to wave, making sure may more people could not see the show they paid to see ( so his kid and the sign have more of a right to see the show than hundreds of others), then gets pissed at typical behavior for the band in question. 
  This is the type of parent that makes folks call for adult only venues - and if  were a parent I would resent them more than those with out kids do.
  Townshend should not have apologized...that is only going to make people like this more entitled.  And frankly. I think the father and child should have been kicked out for interfering with so many other people's enjoyment of the show.
   
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: ettiquit on April 21, 2013, 12:14:44 PM
http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan (http://www.elmoremagazine.com/2013/03/music-news/pete-townshend-apologizes-for-swearing-at-young-fan)

I'm of mixed emotions on this.

First of all, I think he did handle it very badly.

Second though, I think this is a major reason why parents receive the stink-eye from the general public so much.  It's a rock concert--not Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber, but the Who.  Why in the world would you bring a 7 year old to that?  I get the impression Dad used his kid as an attention getter from a rocker he likes, then didn't like the outcome.  Also, if his DD just LOVED Pete Townshend, why didn't the sign say that instead of "smash your guitar"?

So basically, you encourage your child to encourage another to do an immature act and then get annoyed when it wasn't the act you desired?

Our DD (6) loves Billy Idol.  However, I don't think we'll be taking her to any of his concerts.

The sign was in reference to Pete Townshend being a guitar smasher back in his younger partying days when The Who was at their peak. He used to love smashing guitars on stage just like lots of rock gods used to enjoy doing. However he's older now and has his younger days all behind him and has often said how embarrassed and sheepish he now is about the silly things he used to do in his prime like smashing guitars and trashing rooms and equipment. Him, the rest of the band and a generation of our parents who were Who fans and made up the crowd are all older and mature now. Added to that that a Who Concert these days would be more sedate and sensible than back in the day due to the average age of the crowd, the genre and changing times, the sign probably set him off. Not cool to swear but really REALLY not a good idea to bring your kid to any rock concert. A child at something like a Who or Fleetwood Mac or Phil Collins concert is one (stupid) thing but you'd have to have completely lost the plot to bring your child to watch a band like Iron Maiden or Motorhead or Metallica for example.

Why is it stupid?

Because it's an adult rock concert. Even though The Who is probably on the calmer end of rock concerts, most of them are filled with adult lyrics and themes, crowd surfers, swearing, drugs, drink, swearing, mosh pits, barging etc.. etc.. which is great and fun for me as an adult and the reason I love going to them but really really not a wise place to bring a 7-year old child. Reading the comments in the online newspapers about this, the overwhelming majority seem to be criticising the parents decision for taking the child to the concert rather than the actual swearing by Townshend. It's not a teenage child, she's 7. Rock concerts are great but parents really need to exercise thought on where to take children. 7 is far too young. I don't think I've ever seen a small child at a rock or metal concert before (except for families open air festivals). Young teenagers yes, but never 7 year olds.

*edited to add my 'stupid' comment was directed at the age of the child taken, not that anyone would be 'stupid' for seeing those bands. Quite the opposite.

I've seen The Who three times, including this past tour.  No one would ever describe a Who concert as "calm", though you're not likely to see mosh pits or crowd surfers.  They are however the loudest band I've ever seen, and while they don't stand on stage spewing strings of swear words, they're not exactly concerned with being PG.  There were a few young kids at the show I was recently at (with better seats than me, bah!) and I thought it probably wasn't a great choice.  I did notice that the dad had earplugs for the kids, and the kids were well behaved and seemed to enjoy themselves. 

The dad in this story was using his kid to get attention, and I really wish Pete hadn't apologized.
Title: Re: Pete Townshend apologizes for swearing at young fan...
Post by: Redneck Gravy on June 04, 2013, 02:11:10 PM
This is the second thread in as many days regarding taking young children to places they don't belong. This behavior is getting to be an epidemic. What happened to the days when kids stayed at home with a babysitter when Mom & Dad went out? When my kids were little, if I couldn't get a babysitter I stayed home. The norm seems to be trending toward taking any kid of any age everywhere, appropriate or not, and I find that disturbing.


Sorry, I am just getting back to this thread.  I agree with the recent increase in kids turning up at places they were not invited and probably just shouldn't be but I am not so sure it is just recently.  I think it's more about entitlement for the parents.   

I worked at a movie theatre in the late 70's and we showed X Rated movies (18 and older only) about once a month at midnight on Saturday.  Besides having to id all the teens pouring into the place we would have parents trying to drag their toddlers in also   :o   

No, I am not kidding and I am not talking about in the arms infants, I am talking about 2-4 year old children!  (because that is where you want your children learning their early scrabble education - on the big screen)