Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: nuit93 on April 03, 2013, 12:43:48 PM

Title: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: nuit93 on April 03, 2013, 12:43:48 PM
A bit of background:  one of my good friends (K) is getting married for the first time, her and her FH are in their mid-30's.  K's younger sister C married a few years ago and being the first wedding in that family it was treated with a good deal of pomp and circumstance, BWW, the works.  Unlike her younger sister, K met her soul mate later in life and thus has always been assumed to be 'uninterested' in weddings and other traditional trappings.  It's actually not the case, but unfortunately any attempts by K to explain this to her family have gone ignored.

So fast forward to now, K and her FH are engaged and have settled on a location/date that's perfect for them.  C and her DH are trying to start a family. 

K announces to her parents the date they have selected for her wedding.  C is there as well, and announces her news: she's pregnant.  Her due date?  The same week as K's wedding.

K is thrilled for her sister and can't wait to be an aunt, however the date she chose as her wedding date is very important to her and her FH--plus they've already started making arrangements.  Her parents immediately expected her to change her date, because "after all, it's easy to change a City Hall appointment".  When K explained again that no, they were not going to City Hall but rather having a MSWW (Modest Sized White Wedding as opposed to a Big White Wedding since that's all they can afford), they responded by informing her that they couldn't possibly be expected to choose her event over the birth of their first grandchild and that she should have known that with her sister trying for a baby, these conflicts could happen!

C is sympathetic to her sister and wishes she could be there, but knows it probably isn't going to be likely.  They've already discussed other ways for her to at least be able to see the ceremony.  Both are rather appalled by their parents' reactions.

Still, K feels bad.  Is she rude for not having coordinated with her sister better?  Personally I think the parents are the monsters here.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TurtleDove on April 03, 2013, 12:50:30 PM
Has K explained her reasoning for choosing the date she chose?  If she hasn't, I can understand the parents assuming that she would just pick a different date.  Without knowing why that particular date is so important, I don't really see why they wouldn't change the date so everyone they want to be there can be there. I think the parents are out of line since it's not really their business, but I also don't really understand why K and her FH would choose a particular date over the ability of people they want to witness the event.  I am not big on particular dates though.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bah12 on April 03, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
I'm going to guess that C didn't deliberately try to upstage K by getting pregnant as soon as she announced her engagement.

I think that K should get to do whatever she wants in regards to her wedding, to include the date it will be held on.  Her parents have no say in the matter.  Though, I'm sure they can figure out a way to both attend their eldest daughters wedding while anxiously anticipating (or celebrating) the birth of their first grandchild, if they choose not to attend because there's a chance the two events would conflict, that's on them.  They'd be missing out on something important.

I think that C has a good excuse to say that she likely won't attend and I think it's great that she and K are working out a way for her to still be involved in the prep in some way.  C will either have a brand new baby on the day of the wedding or will be very close to having a baby.  The grandparents on the other hand, really don't play a big part in the birth.  And while I'm sure that it will be a lot both helping one daughter prepare for a wedding and another for a baby, I really don't see how the two could conflict.  Even if the baby was born on the wedding day, mom and dad could attend the wedding and then go to the hospital afterwards to meet baby. 

It would be fine for K to choose to postpone her wedding date so that the family doesn't have two major life events happening at the same time (I may choose this method myself if possible), but I in no way think she's rude not to.  Her parents shouldn't even expect her to.  That's minimizing her news for the sake of another's and is rude.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: BeagleMommy on April 03, 2013, 12:54:07 PM
Wait a minute.  K is supposed to check with her sister to make sure her wedding doesn't coincide with the date her baby is due to arrive?!  I'm not sure that's even possible.  I think K should tell her parents "Well, it's up to you.  I want you at my wedding, but if you choose not to be there I'll miss you." and continue with her plans.

I mean, what if baby is early or late?  Sometimes they take hours to arrive even if they are on time.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: daen on April 03, 2013, 12:55:23 PM
Rude? No. Absolutely not.
What would have been rude would have been K asking C about how the baby-making was going, even for the purpose of "coordinating." (I'm inclined to say especially for the purpose of coordinating. Can you picture? "Hey, sis, how's the fertility and the scrabble-playing? Why do I ask? Oh, just trying to plan my wedding date.")

Besides, babies come when they decide to come, not when the mother/father/doctor/midwife/anyone else calculate that they will arrive. C can't guarantee that Baby C will not decide to show up prematurely, nor can she promise that Baby C won't stay put for an extra two weeks.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 01:00:16 PM
Well, since a baby can come early or late their patents probably expected K to leave the whole month (or more) free. Hopefully C will tell parents that if baby happens to come on day of wedding they will not be welcome at the hospital so they might as well go to the weddong.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bansidhe on April 03, 2013, 01:00:20 PM
Still, K feels bad.  Is she rude for not having coordinated with her sister better?  Personally

Nope. No way could she have predicted her sister's pregnancy and due date even knowing that she was trying for a baby. I'm not sure what her parents expected her to do - maybe wait for five years or so until her sister was finished having babies?  ::)

Sounds like the parents are determined to ignore K's wishes, so it's time to K to ignore their objections and have her wedding when she wants to have it. If they sputter about not being able to attend she can say "Sorry things didn't work out. I'll be sure to send pictures."

Thank goodness C sounds like a reasonable person.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: RebeccainGA on April 03, 2013, 01:05:24 PM
Sounds like a lot of tales we hear on here - people that think that because they would like things a certain way, you must change to accommodate them. It's not true! You don't have to change!

It sounds like C is reasonable. Maybe K and C could approach the parents together and say "hey, we're both OK with this - why aren't you?".
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TurtleDove on April 03, 2013, 01:06:45 PM
I didn't read that the parents are upset that K had chosen a wedding date when she didn't know that her sister was due that same week.  I understood the parents to be upset that K is refusing to consider changing her wedding date now that she knows it will likely result in at least her sister missing her wedding.  To me, honestly, I don't get why K would not change the date as it would be simpler for everyone and by digging in her heels there is tension.  I would have to really understand why that particular date was so important to K.  So while I think the parents don't get a say, I totally see how they are baffled why K wouldn't just pick another date.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Roe on April 03, 2013, 01:12:34 PM
She's not rude, of course, but if I were K, I'd probably change the date...just so I could have my parents and sister present.  It's not something she needs to do, however.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: nuit93 on April 03, 2013, 01:19:03 PM
K didn't know about the pregnancy (only that they were trying) until after she announced her wedding date.  They didn't announce the date yet because they weren't sure if they could get the location they wanted on the date they wanted, and wanted to get it reserved first.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TurtleDove on April 03, 2013, 01:21:08 PM
I still think that unless for some reason K has already paid a considerable nonrefundable deposit people will question why she does't just change the date.  Of course she doesn't have to.  But I personally think it's odd and apparently so do her parents.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 03, 2013, 01:22:19 PM
Will the wedding be in the same geographic area as where C lives or would be the parent's be required to do overnight travel to attend the wedding?

I don't think K is rude to not change her date. She and her fiance have the right to choose any date they prefer.

Since a baby due date can't be changed, K and her fiance need to make a decision on how important it is for her family to be at the wedding. 

I can understand a mom being very torn between being available for the birth of a grandchild or attending another child's wedding if there is no way she could be physically available at both locations.  I can understand the mom hoping the offspring who can feasabily change a date would. I can also imagine being slightly put out that the child was refusing to and therefore putting her/them in the position of having to "choose" between.  But the mom has no right to demand she change her date.

My own position is that I would never want to put my mother in a position of having to make a decision like that so I would have immediately changed my date. I also wouldn't have wanted to be caught up in a wedding and potentially be gone on a honeymoon when my new neice or nephew was scheduled to be born. But also, I've never been emotionally attached to a specific date so I may not understand her strong stance of wanting to marry on that specific date. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: peaches on April 03, 2013, 01:24:27 PM
I have mixed feelings about this one. To me, a wedding date is chosen AFTER discussion with parents on both sides. If certain people are essential to you to have at the wedding, you would discuss the date with them first. You don't just announce a date and expect everyone to fall in line.

If the couple is paying for their own wedding, they can do what they want. But they can't demand that everyone show up (even parents).

A possible pregnancy is not reason to postpone a wedding. A confirmed pregnancy might influence a couple in moving the date a bit, if the mom-to-be's attendance is very important to them. It will still be a crap shoot, because pregnancy is unpredictable. But I can imagine them taking it into consideration.

This isn't to say that they have to. I do hope the family can come up with a solution.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 01:29:36 PM
Change the date to what? Even if the baby is full term a couple weeks before the due dayw might be impossable for C to attend. Then there is the reality  thay a premature baby or the need for bedrest could still mean C can't come. Of course the baby could come late or as a new momC might not be up to going to a wedding for the first month or more. If K "should" reschedule her wedding to make sure C can attend that is not real predictable.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: nuit93 on April 03, 2013, 01:32:41 PM
A larger part of the issue is that K's parents have been trying to steer her away from anything resembling a 'traditional' wedding, due to her 'certain age' (over 30).  This has been rather hurtful for K as she feels she's being made out to be some kind of bridezilla for not wanting to go stand in front of a JOP in a sensible suit.

If it were me, I'd be sorely tempted to not invite my parents at all.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 01:36:46 PM
I don't blame her for being hurt. It sounds like her parents are almost penalizing her for being older wjen sje gets married.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bansidhe on April 03, 2013, 01:37:17 PM
I have mixed feelings about this one. To me, a wedding date is chosen AFTER discussion with parents on both sides. If certain people are essential to you to have at the wedding, you would discuss the date with them first. You don't just announce a date and expect everyone to fall in line.

Given K's parents' attitude toward her wedding plans in general, I'm thinking perhaps she justifiably does not regard them as essential.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: snowdragon on April 03, 2013, 01:38:52 PM
Honestly I kinda side with K on this one.  It seems that K has been trying to tell her parents for years how she feels about weddings and they.just.don't.want.to.hear.her.  But her sister's wedding was a big hairy deal.   Now when the wedding that they have not wanted to hear would be important to her, is here and they are planning it, the parents are still not hearing that it's important to her. They are, in fact, being pretty dismissive with the "it's not hard to change a City Hall appointment" 

And now,she's expected to work around her sister's pregnancy.  Which could mean moving it by weeks and still not having her sister there. ( In order to ensure that she'd likely have to move it several months as many parents don't want to take newborns around other people for several months after birth. ) So just how long is she supposed to have to put her life on hold for this?

  Apparently the date has significance to the couple, and they do have the right to have their wedding when they want to - especially in the light of how K's family is being so un-supportive - personally, if someone told me that they assumed I would be having a city hall wedding rather than a real celebration, I'd be rethinking their invitation- parents or not.  My heart goes out to K - I wish her years of happiness.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Twik on April 03, 2013, 01:40:26 PM
If I'm reading it correctly, this may be a destination wedding, or at least something where the parents will not be able to get to C quickly, correct?

In that case, I can understand why the parents would prefer to stay nearby for the delivery. Giving birth can be riskier and more draining than a wedding, and they may secretly be worried about how C would cope in an emergency if they were not around.

I'm afraid this comes down a lot to "stuff happens". It stinks, but I can see why her parents have had to make a hard decision.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: RingTailedLemur on April 03, 2013, 01:41:29 PM
I agree with Snowdragon.  It sounds like K's parents have been against her having any kind of wedding in her style for a long time and K has finally had enough.  She has drawn her line in the sand here.

If she moves the wedding date, what will the next demand from her parents be?  A different dress, maybe?  Different dinners?  Just how much about this wedding will they hassle her to change if she gives in this time?
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 01:43:05 PM
I don't see anything to indicate destination wedding, just that ot won't ne a courthpusr/ JoP wedding.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on April 03, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
Honestly I kinda side with K on this one.  It seems that K has been trying to tell her parents for years how she feels about weddings and they.just.don't.want.to.hear.her.  But her sister's wedding was a big hairy deal.   Now when the wedding that they have not wanted to hear would be important to her, is here and they are planning it, the parents are still not hearing that it's important to her. They are, in fact, being pretty dismissive with the "it's not hard to change a City Hall appointment" 

And now,she's expected to work around her sister's pregnancy.  Which could mean moving it by weeks and still not having her sister there. ( In order to ensure that she'd likely have to move it several months as many parents don't want to take newborns around other people for several months after birth. ) So just how long is she supposed to have to put her life on hold for this?

  Apparently the date has significance to the couple, and they do have the right to have their wedding when they want to - especially in the light of how K's family is being so un-supportive - personally, if someone told me that they assumed I would be having a city hall wedding rather than a real celebration, I'd be rethinking their invitation- parents or not.  My heart goes out to K - I wish her years of happiness.

Huge POD as another daughter whose family gives not a fig for her, I feel for K as well.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: snowdragon on April 03, 2013, 01:44:35 PM
I agree with Snowdragon.  It sounds like K's parents have been against her having any kind of wedding in her style for a long time and K has finally had enough.  She has drawn her line in the sand here.

If she moves the wedding date, what will the next demand from her parents be?  A different dress, maybe?  Different dinners?  Just how much about this wedding will they hassle her to change if she gives in this time?

And if they give in on this - what will their future lives be like - what demands will the family make about life in general for this couple
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Memphis1986 on April 03, 2013, 03:23:31 PM
Eep I have been in the sisters situation before! My sister and (now) brother in law got engaged then spent ages deciding on a date for their nuptials. In the meantime my husband and I were trying for a baby, only to find out that our due date was only 3 days after the wedding. That resulted in lots of comments from my mother in law saying "I hope it's early it will be nice to gave a newborn at the wedding!" And general falling out around me. Eventually my husband went to the wedding and I gave birth 2 days latter. It's not rude of her not to change the date, neither is it rude of the mother to be to decline to attend, but IMO it IS rude for the parents to assume that either event takes priority over the other!
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: lowspark on April 03, 2013, 03:42:59 PM
If I'm understanding this correctly, the parents paid for C's BWW but aren't paying for K's wedding at all, is that right? Because if they were paying for it then yeah, she should have cleared dates with them before booking the location and making any concrete plans.

But it seems to be a matter of the parents not treating both daughters the same. It's pretty awful that they are giving preferential treatment to C over K. In K's place, I'd just do whatever worked best for me and not take the parents' opinions into account at all.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: nuit93 on April 03, 2013, 03:57:04 PM
If I'm understanding this correctly, the parents paid for C's BWW but aren't paying for K's wedding at all, is that right? Because if they were paying for it then yeah, she should have cleared dates with them before booking the location and making any concrete plans.

But it seems to be a matter of the parents not treating both daughters the same. It's pretty awful that they are giving preferential treatment to C over K. In K's place, I'd just do whatever worked best for me and not take the parents' opinions into account at all.

C and her DH actually paid for their own wedding, as far as I know.  Their parents on either side didn't (or couldn't, not my place to speculate) contribute much if anything.  K and her FH are planning to do the same.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TurtleDove on April 03, 2013, 04:02:54 PM
OP, what is the significance of the date K chose?  If the family members otherwise get along (and with the latest updates the speculation about the parents favoring C over K should diminish) I still don't really understand why K wouldn't want to accomodate as many people as possible.  Obviously she can keep the date, but knowing that choice is causing a rift would make me want to change it.  I don't see this as the parents favoring C over K, I see this as the reality that a wedding date can be changed but a baby is going to come more or less in nine months. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: lowspark on April 03, 2013, 04:05:51 PM
Ah, ok. So the real breakdown here is due to the parents figuring K will not do much more than run down the courthouse, and that C's baby takes precedence over whatever K is doing.

So it doesn't really change my answer all that much. Unless K is planning a destination wedding, there's still a good chance that C will be able to attend. And there's no reason at all that the parents can't attend. Even if C is in labor at the exact time of the wedding, the parents do not need to be at the hospital holding her hand. If she hasn't had the baby yet by then, everyone can be at the wedding. If she has had the baby, C can determine if she is up to attending the wedding but the parents really have no excuse not to be there unless C is going to be happy with the parents hanging around with the new baby 24/7 which is pretty doubtful.

So really, in my opinion, the only reason for K to change the date is if she wants to make absolutely sure C will be able to be there. In that case, it's between C & K to discuss and work out.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: nuit93 on April 03, 2013, 04:15:55 PM
OP, what is the significance of the date K chose?  If the family members otherwise get along (and with the latest updates the speculation about the parents favoring C over K should diminish) I still don't really understand why K wouldn't want to accomodate as many people as possible.  Obviously she can keep the date, but knowing that choice is causing a rift would make me want to change it.  I don't see this as the parents favoring C over K, I see this as the reality that a wedding date can be changed but a baby is going to come more or less in nine months.

It's the date they first said "I love you" to each other.  Corny? Yeah, a bit, but also adorable IMO.

They're talking about caving a bit and moving the date out, but with the parents' attitude towards K & her FH wanting a bigger ceremony and not just a JOP wedding there's some reluctance.

Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TurtleDove on April 03, 2013, 04:18:14 PM
OP, what is the significance of the date K chose?  If the family members otherwise get along (and with the latest updates the speculation about the parents favoring C over K should diminish) I still don't really understand why K wouldn't want to accomodate as many people as possible.  Obviously she can keep the date, but knowing that choice is causing a rift would make me want to change it.  I don't see this as the parents favoring C over K, I see this as the reality that a wedding date can be changed but a baby is going to come more or less in nine months.

It's the date they first said "I love you" to each other.  Corny? Yeah, a bit, but also adorable IMO.

They're talking about caving a bit and moving the date out, but with the parents' attitude towards K & her FH wanting a bigger ceremony and not just a JOP wedding there's some reluctance.

Aw, that's sweet!  I still would want to smooth over the rift, though, personally.  I hope it gets worked out!  No one is "wrong" for how they feel about this but it seems like communication is an issue.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 03, 2013, 04:27:28 PM
I think most people generally talk to the guests who are most important to them before making concrete wedding plans, so I think K was a bit silly to not consult her sister before absolutely deciding on a date. By deciding on a date first with no input, K basically said through her (and her FH's) actions they don't care if family attends or not (which sort of contributes to the idea that its not a big deal wedding... so really she isn't communicating to her family very well that a big to-do is important to her).

I think she might want to consider changing the date though, for the sake of her sister, who sounds completely supportive of K - if K's parents are supportive, it would be nice (although by no means necessary) to try to accommodate C's schedule.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Lynn2000 on April 03, 2013, 04:29:00 PM
I have mixed feelings about this one. To me, a wedding date is chosen AFTER discussion with parents on both sides. If certain people are essential to you to have at the wedding, you would discuss the date with them first. You don't just announce a date and expect everyone to fall in line.

Given K's parents' attitude toward her wedding plans in general, I'm thinking perhaps she justifiably does not regard them as essential.

I agree with both of these. I think that basic milestone event planning ought to start with the essential guests, not with the date or location. However, not everyone has essential guests, or would label the same guests as "essential" as someone else would. This comes up from time to time in threads about destination weddings and/or elopements; basically the couple can do whatever they want (as long as they're paying for it), but if someone else disagrees with their choices there could be hurt feelings. And those hurt feelings may be "reasonable," or may not be, depending on the person or situation. I think it's really hard to judge someone else's family dynamics.

If K and her FH consider her parents and sister essential guests, and would be devastated if they couldn't be there, I think they were obligated to run the date by them first before making any firm plans; I think it was foolish not to. And they should seriously consider moving the wedding, this time with their essential guests in mind.

BUT, it may well be that K considers her parents and sister to be less-than-essential, and that's why they booked the date and location before telling them about it. In which case I say don't bother changing the date, and don't try to guilt anyone into making a choice between events.

I think this coordinates well with the thread about the woman who declined to attend a wedding that was scheduled a month after her due date (she declined six weeks before she was due). Almost everyone said she was wise to decline, because you never know if the baby will be early or late, how you'll be feel when the wedding comes around, if you'll want to take the baby out, etc.. As it stands now, C is due the week of K's wedding--but it's not just a matter of moving the wedding up or down one week, or two. That wouldn't be a big enough margin to safely accommodate the birth of a child, I wouldn't think. To "ensure" that C can attend the wedding, K is looking at changing the date by months. Only she can decide if that's reasonable or not.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Memphis1986 on April 03, 2013, 04:35:56 PM
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the parents aren't paying for Ks wedding, so why are they getting bent out of shape that she wants a white wedding? Or is it that they just aren't as echoed as they "should" or would normally be because of their excitement about the grandchild?
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: LilacGirl1983 on April 03, 2013, 04:37:49 PM
I wouldn't cave..people are right when they state the baby's due date is not an exact time frame..Its an educated guess at best by the medical commnity..Babies can arrive any time from 37 weeks to 42 weeks..then depending on how uncomfortable she gets she might not want to go come anytime after 32 weeks..then afterwards she will be sore and tired with a newborn for at least 4 weeks afterwards..so if you would try to plan that around you would have to avoid almost 3 months worth of time frame..I would plan it for when it was going to be..Sis can make it or not..parents I am not sure if I would want them there since they are showing Sis the preferential treatment.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gellchom on April 03, 2013, 04:39:39 PM
I'm with TurtleDove, Roe, Hmmmmm, Lynn, and WillyNilly. 

Certainly it's not "rude" of K if she doesn't change the wedding date.  And I also agree that her parents weren't nice about this (assuming we are getting a verbatim quote of what they really said) and would be out of line to demand a change.  This sort of thing comes up all the time, and couples usually try to avoid times of other family members' weddings, graduations, and so forth -- not because it's "rude" not to, but because it makes it easier for everyone.  (Does anyone else remember the string about a couple who wanted to get married on a day that had a date that was interesting mathematically, even though it was a non-holiday Thursday or something, and they were inviting many people from out of town?  And there are couples who have personal reasons for wanting to have their weddings at sunrise on the beach, or midnight on a mountaintop.  Of course, yes, they have a right to plan a wedding any way they wish.  But they don't have the right to insist that no one is allowed to think that they are putting a frivolous reason ahead of all the guests' convenience and comfort.)

So although she doesn't have to, and no one should insist that she must, I don't see why K herself wouldn't want to change the date to some time when there isn't something else so huge happening in the immediate family.  I understand the sentimental attachment to the date they first said "I love you."  But I bet there are other significant dates on their personal calendar, and anyway, I suspect it's not THAT important to them that it be the wedding date.  They can celebrate that anniversary, too. 

Honestly, I think the real issue here is the way the parents seem to have treated the two sisters.  It's not C's fault, and I am pleased to see that K seems to understand that and not hold it against her. 

But to me the issue isn't a question of rudeness or even acquiescing to or defying parents, whether or not they are being mean or unfair.

It's about trying to make things easier for the whole family.  And K herself is probably going to want to share the excitement of the new baby, too -- and for that matter, I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to risk her own wedding be upstaged by the birth of the baby just before, or expected just after, the wedding.  If I were K, I'd definitely want to plan to maximize the chances that everyone could share fully in everything.  It would be a shame for either sister to have to try to minimize her own wonderful occasion.  And no matter how mean the parents are being about things, now or in the past, really, it's not so nice to put them in the position of possibly having to choose being with one daughter as she marries and the other as she gives birth.

Not to be a big downer here, but there is one more thing to consider.  Remember, too, that unfortunately not every pregnancy and every birth goes smoothly, some moms are in medical crisis, and some newborns are in grave medical circumstances that require surgery.  What an awful position K and her parents would be in then.  And it would cast a pall on the wedding.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bah12 on April 03, 2013, 04:40:54 PM
The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict.  K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby.  Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date.  She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?).  She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date.  If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end.  She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.
This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too.  But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work.  Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear.  She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can.  If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending. 

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: *inviteseller on April 03, 2013, 04:45:09 PM
These parents sound like winners.  They are not even listening to their daughter when she tries to tell them it isn't a courthouse wedding and now, they want her to put off her wedding for the birth of their grandchild?  Then maybe the sister and her husband have another life changing event...should she change all her plans again?  I say go ahead with the wedding on the day they want, especially because her sister is not concerned (and spring for a videographer so she can see the wedding if she can't make it) and if the parents think it is more important to sit home and wait for a phone call of the possible birth, then so be it.  The other daughter must be so smothered by these two !  They are not going to be in the delivery room for goodness sakes and they are lucky to have one daughter getting married and another having a baby in the same week.

Also...in my reading, it seems as if the bride was making plans for this date before she knew her sister was pregnant.  So she may have already told the family, but the parents don't seem to be listening to her anyways
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 04:51:44 PM
OP, what is the significance of the date K chose?  If the family members otherwise get along (and with the latest updates the speculation about the parents favoring C over K should diminish) I still don't really understand why K wouldn't want to accomodate as many people as possible.  Obviously she can keep the date, but knowing that choice is causing a rift would make me want to change it.  I don't see this as the parents favoring C over K, I see this as the reality that a wedding date can be changed but a baby is going to come more or less in nine months.

It's the date they first said "I love you" to each other.  Corny? Yeah, a bit, but also adorable IMO.

They're talking about caving a bit and moving the date out, but with the parents' attitude towards K & her FH wanting a bigger ceremony and not just a JOP wedding there's some reluctance.

Aw, that's sweet!  I still would want to smooth over the rift, though, personally.  I hope it gets worked out!  No one is "wrong" for how they feel about this but it seems like communication is an issue.

I have to say that I think the parents are wrong in saying that she has automatically aged out of anything but a courthouse wedding.  And I suspect that with that attitude once they agree to move it mom and dad will expect them to schedule around all sorts of other events that are also more important.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 04:53:39 PM
I think most people generally talk to the guests who are most important to them before making concrete wedding plans, so I think K was a bit silly to not consult her sister before absolutely deciding on a date. By deciding on a date first with no input, K basically said through her (and her FH's) actions they don't care if family attends or not (which sort of contributes to the idea that its not a big deal wedding... so really she isn't communicating to her family very well that a big to-do is important to her).

I think she might want to consider changing the date though, for the sake of her sister, who sounds completely supportive of K - if K's parents are supportive, it would be nice (although by no means necessary) to try to accommodate C's schedule.

What's to say she didn't?  Sis is only now announcing her pregnancy to anyone so if they brought it up a few weeks ago in the planning stage sis might not have said anything, might not even had known anything.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 03, 2013, 04:57:05 PM
The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict.   K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby.  Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date.  She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?).  She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date.  If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end.  She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.
This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too.  But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work.  Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear.  She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can.  If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending. 

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.

I guess that perspective is based on family dynamics. In my family it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the mom and grandfather to be at the hospital when the baby is born and to be available to help out when the baby comes home.

If that is the case in this family, the mom is going to spend the next 6-7 months hoping that the baby doesn't come until after the wedding. I know I'd feel aweful if I had to tell my DD who had just delivered a child "Sorry, sweetie, I've got to leave now to go to your sister's wedding."  While I'm sure my DD would understand, it would still be hard to do. Or worse for them to get a call during the ceremony that the baby been delivered, but the grandparents can't leave because they are at a wedding or if they did leave, they'd feel like they were abadoning one DD for the other. 

That's just additional worry and stress I'd never had wanted to put my mom through.  And my mom would have stressed about it. She never wanted one of us to feel less loved then another so trying to balance to things like this would have drove her a little bonkers.

 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: fountainof on April 03, 2013, 05:01:30 PM
Sometimes dates cannot be easily changed.  For example I married in early Oct. (many many years ago :))  If I had to change a date because my Sis was having a baby when could I switch to, July or August?  I likely wouldn't have been able to get a place for then as those are prime wedding months and I only planned my wedding about 7 months in advance.  Where I live weddings just don't happen over the winter so if my parents wanted a +- 4 weeks range I would have had to wait until May the following year to get married!  That is a long time when you want to get married so I can see how some dates cannot be easily moved.

I think the timing of a baby coming varies widely and the chance of it being the exact same day is unlikely.  I don't see how the parents cannot do both.  The Sis seems fine about it and it is her baby.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 05:02:36 PM
The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict.   K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby.  Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date.  She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?).  She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date.  If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end.  She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.
This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too.  But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work.  Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear.  She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can.  If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending. 

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.

I guess that perspective is based on family dynamics. In my family it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the mom and grandfather to be at the hospital when the baby is born and to be available to help out when the baby comes home.

If that is the case in this family, the mom is going to spend the next 6-7 months hoping that the baby doesn't come until after the wedding. I know I'd feel aweful if I had to tell my DD who had just delivered a child "Sorry, sweetie, I've got to leave now to go to your sister's wedding."  While I'm sure my DD would understand, it would still be hard to do. Or worse for them to get a call during the ceremony that the baby been delivered, but the grandparents can't leave because they are at a wedding or if they did leave, they'd feel like they were abadoning one DD for the other. 

That's just additional worry and stress I'd never had wanted to put my mom through.  And my mom would have stressed about it. She never wanted one of us to feel less loved then another so trying to balance to things like this would have drove her a little bonkers.

In my family it is reasonable for the grandparents (and aunts/uncles to be there when the baby is born too).  It is also reasonable to be there in the days or even weeks after.  The reality is that it is also possible to have the baby early - weeks or even a couple of months.  So that would mean as the much older sister who has never been married I would have to alter my plans by several months to make sure there was no conflict. That is the last thing my sisters would want.  Especially since I could leave the wedding on the scheduled date and it is just as possible everyone would be there for the baby's birth because babies don't come on schedule.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 03, 2013, 05:05:05 PM
...And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work...

well yeah that's a weird conversation.

but hundreds of millions of people have totally non-weird conversations about their wedding plans every day.
K: So we are thinking of mid-October for the wedding, its not planned for sure yet, but we'll be trying to lock down a date by next week... we're just checking to see if anyone important to us has any conflicts around then.

C: Mid-October? Hmmm, ok... but just to be candid, we have been trying to get pregnant for a while and if all goes as planned we might not be able to make it then, as I'd be due around then... no official news yet though [big grin]
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: katycoo on April 03, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
Are K and C close?  If I found out my sister could not come to my wedding, I would move it simply because it is important to me that she be there.  I'm all for sentimental dates but I can't imagine a date being more important than my sister.

Also, is K's wedding going to be some distance from where C lives?  I'd be miffed if my parents chose to not to attend because of an impendng birth, unless C was single and my mum was going to be her birth partner.  Can they not do both?
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bah12 on April 03, 2013, 05:22:16 PM
The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict.   K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby.  Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date.  She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?).  She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date.  If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end.  She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.
This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too.  But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work.  Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear.  She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can.  If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending. 

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.

I guess that perspective is based on family dynamics. In my family it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the mom and grandfather to be at the hospital when the baby is born and to be available to help out when the baby comes home.

If that is the case in this family, the mom is going to spend the next 6-7 months hoping that the baby doesn't come until after the wedding. I know I'd feel aweful if I had to tell my DD who had just delivered a child "Sorry, sweetie, I've got to leave now to go to your sister's wedding."  While I'm sure my DD would understand, it would still be hard to do. Or worse for them to get a call during the ceremony that the baby been delivered, but the grandparents can't leave because they are at a wedding or if they did leave, they'd feel like they were abadoning one DD for the other. 

That's just additional worry and stress I'd never had wanted to put my mom through.  And my mom would have stressed about it. She never wanted one of us to feel less loved then another so trying to balance to things like this would have drove her a little bonkers.

It's customary in my family as well.  But that doesn't mean the family is on lockdown during that time either.  Like I said earlier, I'm sure it would be a lot for the parents to both help their older daughter prepare for her wedding and their younger daughter to prepare for a baby, but it's not impossible.  If C was really expecting that her parents be there 24/7 during and after the birth, she's being unreasonable....yet, she doesn't seem to be the one that even cares.  So it seems to me this is more about the parents putting importance on one event and stating that it trumps all others.  It doesn't.   As a matter of fact the wedding date is a known, so C can already be certain that the day of the wedding and possibly even the day before, her parents will be attending to her sister.  If she hasn't had the baby yet, then great.  And if she has, then she knows her and her DH are either on their own or will rely on help from his family or friends that aren't at the wedding. 

The only possible conflict I can see is if she happens to be in labor the day of the wedding, but again...what is the grandparents role?  Sure it's nice to have them there waiting in the lobby or even holding her hand during delivery, but it's not necessary.  Again, I think that anyone who thinks that everyone else has to be there 100% for them to help them care for/celebrate a new baby is unreasonable.

And why would a parent feel awful for leaving a daughter alone to care for and bond with her new baby for a few hours but not awful in missing her own daughter's wedding?  If I had two daughters (or two children), as a parent, I would never minimize a life event of one in favor of the other (I hope).  I think a better reaction from her parents would have been "Wow!  What great news!  A marriage and a baby the same week.  I'm so excited for both of you and happy to help you in any way that I can.  I'm sure we'll all be exhausted that week from all the big changes, but what a good exhausted."

Really, the only consideration that K and C should make for each other at this point is to be sure not to schedule baby and wedding showers on the same day. 

ETA:  I think that the mom can stress about it all she wants.  I know I would love to be in the room (or just outside it) the day my first grandchild arrives, but to expect my other children to rearrange their lives to save me from worrying about something like that is selfish.  For the bolded, I think asking/expecting a daughter to move a wedding date so that I could be available 'just in case' my other daughter has a baby that day, is making it look like I love one more than the other.  Is it really sending a message of "non-love" to attend a daughter's wedding and then go to the hospital after to coo over my hours old grandchild?  Is that few hours really going to hurt my relationship with my other daughter or even the grandchild?  If so, they are the ones that are being unreasonable, not the one who didn't postpone her wedding for 6 months.

And FWIW, my younger sister was 4 or 5 months pregnant with her second child during my wedding.  We actually had to get her a new dress at the last minute because the one we had for her didn't fit.  She also had some complications that caused us to have her sit vs stand during the ceremony (she was in the bridal party).  She wasn't pregnant when we announced the wedding (but I also didn't consult her first).  And if I had waited for her to stop having babies before I got married (she had them every 18 months to 2 years apart and pretty much in the 'trying' stage the whole time), instead of getting married 13 years ago, I would have gotten married 6 years ago.   

And when I was pregnant, we planned for my whole family to be there for the birth.  Instead, we delivered 6 weeks early.  My parents were in another country on vacation, my brother wasn't due to arrive in town for another 6 weeks, and my sister was at some event for one of her children.  Life happens...and not always how we plan. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: katycoo on April 03, 2013, 05:25:00 PM
I have mixed feelings about this one. To me, a wedding date is chosen AFTER discussion with parents on both sides. If certain people are essential to you to have at the wedding, you would discuss the date with them first. You don't just announce a date and expect everyone to fall in line.

Really?  It didn't even occur to me to consult my parents.  Perhaps if I was choosing a date quite close, I might but I picked a date nearly 1 year away.  It was unlikley that our parents would have had plans that far ahead without us being aware of them already.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: camlan on April 03, 2013, 05:30:42 PM
There was a lack of communication on both sides. K didn't want to say anything until they had the date  locked in. C most likely didn't want to say anything until they were sure, or until three months had passed, or something like that.

And K could have picked a date two years out, and C could still be expecting a baby that week.

Life happens.

If C isn't upset and K isn't upset, I think the parents are rude to make a big deal of it. The parents are also rude to even imply that K is only deserving of a courthouse marriage.

The parents should make contingency plans. If it does happen that C goes into labor the day of the wedding, the mom stays with C and provides support. The dad goes to the church and walks K down the aisle. It's not ideal, it's not what all parties would like. But it's not the end of the world, either.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bah12 on April 03, 2013, 05:31:48 PM
...And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work...

well yeah that's a weird conversation.

but hundreds of millions of people have totally non-weird conversations about their wedding plans every day.
K: So we are thinking of mid-October for the wedding, its not planned for sure yet, but we'll be trying to lock down a date by next week... we're just checking to see if anyone important to us has any conflicts around then.

C: Mid-October? Hmmm, ok... but just to be candid, we have been trying to get pregnant for a while and if all goes as planned we might not be able to make it then, as I'd be due around then... no official news yet though [big grin]


I think that's a weird conversation to have too.  If I were K, I'd be wondering what she meant (and if it were the relationship I have with my sister, I'd come right out and ask).   But what if K said "Oh wow...that's exciting!  Of course I'd love to have you at my wedding...obviously...but if you can't come because of a baby I would certainly understand"...would you consider her rude?  When someone announces something like a pregnancy, you're not talking about a conflict of a short period of time...(This isn't a long planned family vacation, or a birthday party conflict)...it's a baby.  The birth date is unknown, the circumstances are unknown, the health of the mother and baby are unknown.  Asking someone to postpone a wedding to accommodate the birth of a baby is not easy.  It's not moving it to the next weekend or even the next month.  To be sure there are absolutely no conflicts at all, K would have to move her wedding out at least 6 months (late enough that the baby is born, C and the baby's health are known/planned around, and probably too early for C to be pregnant again...though even that can't be guaranteed).  And I think that's an awful lot to expect of someone.  It would be easier and more gracious to say "I'm bummed I can't be there, but want to help you as much as I can.  If there's a way for me to see the ceremony, I'd love that!"
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TheaterDiva1 on April 03, 2013, 05:34:50 PM
I still think that unless for some reason K has already paid a considerable nonrefundable deposit people will question why she does't just change the date.  Of course she doesn't have to.  But I personally think it's odd and apparently so do her parents.

When I saw K had "already started arrangements," I took it as they made deposits (non-refundable).  If they switch the date, they could be out a lot of money.  Are the parents willing to reimburse K is that happens?
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: fountainof on April 03, 2013, 05:46:45 PM
A wedding only takes at max 12 hours of the parent's time, it could even be less if the day is arranged so they can leave the events after dinner.  I don't see how a grandparent needs to be at the mom-to-be's side 100% of the time and cannot take a little break to attend their other kid's wedding.

My Mom was in the Philipines for a friend's wedding 2 weeks before my due date.  She had booked the trip before I was expecting and it she had promised a friend to go.  I certainly didn't have a problem with it but other people seemed to, talking about my mother should be there just in case the baby was early.

I think in these parent's case the problem is they had two children and can only seem to prioritize around one child.

In my family if the parents didn't come no one who think "why didn't you change the date (as you need to book most wedding venues a year in advance and babies take less than a year)" but why were the parents so cruel to not come.  No one would expect the mom-to-be to put her baby making on hold for a wedding so the same goes for a wedding.  If it was such an issue to these parents when the bride got engaged the parents should have told the sister not to try for baby until after the wedding.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Jones on April 03, 2013, 05:50:53 PM
My coworker and her fiance planned to be married on the anniversary of their first date (early September). His parents were planning to go on a cruise a few weeks later (early October), and asked them to bump it up a few weeks for financial purposes (since they aren't paying for much or traveling anywhere I am assuming a big wedding gift, that is an assumption on my part though). The couple accomodated and moved the wedding up to mid August. Since then they have been "forced" to: add people to the wedding party, choose a different color scheme, use the flowers Grandma approved, putting off the honeymoon to take a cruise with his parents--yes, the October cruise (at least Coworker, the bride, refused to share the suite)...every week I hear, in casual conversation, about one more thing she's caved on for family unity.

In short, the word "no" is not rude, particularly when followed with "I'm afraid that won't be possible." If K caves on something important to them, where will it end? And this situation starts out with parents who already don't seem to respect the choices being made (white wedding).
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 03, 2013, 06:01:54 PM
...And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work...

well yeah that's a weird conversation.

but hundreds of millions of people have totally non-weird conversations about their wedding plans every day.
K: So we are thinking of mid-October for the wedding, its not planned for sure yet, but we'll be trying to lock down a date by next week... we're just checking to see if anyone important to us has any conflicts around then.

C: Mid-October? Hmmm, ok... but just to be candid, we have been trying to get pregnant for a while and if all goes as planned we might not be able to make it then, as I'd be due around then... no official news yet though [big grin]


I think that's a weird conversation to have too.  If I were K, I'd be wondering what she meant (and if it were the relationship I have with my sister, I'd come right out and ask).   But what if K said "Oh wow...that's exciting!  Of course I'd love to have you at my wedding...obviously...but if you can't come because of a baby I would certainly understand"...would you consider her rude?  When someone announces something like a pregnancy, you're not talking about a conflict of a short period of time...(This isn't a long planned family vacation, or a birthday party conflict)...it's a baby.  The birth date is unknown, the circumstances are unknown, the health of the mother and baby are unknown.  Asking someone to postpone a wedding to accommodate the birth of a baby is not easy.  It's not moving it to the next weekend or even the next month.  To be sure there are absolutely no conflicts at all, K would have to move her wedding out at least 6 months (late enough that the baby is born, C and the baby's health are known/planned around, and probably too early for C to be pregnant again...though even that can't be guaranteed).  And I think that's an awful lot to expect of someone.  It would be easier and more gracious to say "I'm bummed I can't be there, but want to help you as much as I can.  If there's a way for me to see the ceremony, I'd love that!"

Nothing in life can be planned months in advance without life possibly stepping in and making scrap of plans, but I totally disagree one can't plan around a due date. If the sister is due Oct 1, and her mother, and other females by blood on her mothers side all have a history of giving birth late, then you assume Oct 1-30 for the birth and plan for Sept or November. If the female record is for early births, you assume Sept 1-Oct 1 for the birth. If there is no pattern, you assume Sept 14 to Oct 14 for the birth.

Might you miss the target?  Of course you might. And the sister might very well still not be able to attend even if it works out to 4 weeks before or after. But at least you took the due date into consideration to try to minimize (not eliminate, just minimize) the conflict. Planning is not an absolute. But just because you can't plan something absolute doesn't mean you should not bother planning at all.


Not that anyone has to. But if people's attendance is important to you, that's what you do. My DH and I spoke with our 4 sets of parents (incl steps) and a total of 6 sets of siblings before we set our date. we didn't ask everyone we ended up inviting, and we didn't let everything effect us (for example one sibling has school age kids and would have to travel to get to our wedding, oh well, we didn't want to plan around school holidays) but we took our nearest and dearest into consideration before anything was set. And we would have graciously accepted a decline in we'd gotten one.

K's parents aren't taking her wedding seriously, and that's upsetting for sure. But K didn't take their attendance very seriously if she failed to consult them prior to locking in dates. Its a two-way street.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bah12 on April 03, 2013, 06:15:51 PM
But it's not just a month.  If you're seriously going to try to accommodate a pregnancy, then it's shortsighted to consider just the actual birth in that calculation.  The month before a baby is due can be hellish for the MTB.  She may not be feeling well enough to attend (that's actually likely) or even on bed rest.  And the months after that can be even more difficult.  There's breastfeeding issues, there's not wanting to expose the baby to germs or put them in the care of others, there's having a newborn at the wedding, and many other things.  If you have to plan a month just for the birth, then think about the month before the birth as well as several weeks after and even then, you are likely to miss the target.  So, yeah, you can try to minimize the impact but if you're going to truly try to minimize it, you're looking at a several month window at least.  It's unreasonable for someone to think that anyone should postpone a wedding or plan around something with that much uncertainty ...especially when that person isn't even the one having the baby.  And as nice as it may be for someone to attempt to make that kind of accommodation, it certainly shouldn't be a requirement. 

I'm sure if K really truly wanted her parents there, she could accommodate them.  But, honestly, it doesn't surprise me that she doesn't want to.  They sound horrible.  They don't listen to her when she says she's not having a courthouse wedding.  They minimize her wedding due to her age (which is a normal age to marry).  They demand that she "should have known" her sister would get pregant.  And they pretty much put a damper on her whole wedding date announcement.

 The only person that has a real conflict is C...and K and C seem to have found a way to work around it that works for them.  Her parents insisting that their availability for the birth of their grandchild be The.Most.Important.Thing.Ever really does paint them as unreasonable, inconsiderate, and even rude.  They expect K to change her wedding date so that they can available in case C goes into labor, but she doesn't have to postpone the wedding so that C could also attend? (see above on the real time frame she'd have to plan around). 

I wonder what they expect if K and C ever end up pregnant at the same time?  That they discuss their reproductive schedules and coordinate their pregnancies around each other so the grandparents can be sure to be present for each birth?...and it wouldn't surprise me if C got first dibs on that as well (from the parents' perspective). 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Firecat on April 03, 2013, 06:54:59 PM
I don't blame K for not caving one bit. As other posters have pointed out, sometimes changing the date just isn't that easy - where I live, popular wedding venues can be booked more than a year in advance. If K and her FH have already started making arrangements, it may not be as easy to change things as some posters have assumed.

I'd sort of recommend that K enjoy her wedding, spend time with C at another time if C isn't able to attend...and seriously consider giving her parents the cut direct, or at least seriously reducing contact to the absolute minimum required to maintain a relationship with C. It will probably save K some heartache, or at least some headaches, in the long run.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: SPuck on April 03, 2013, 06:59:58 PM
I was born at 7:00 on my dad's card night, and he was there by 8:00 so making contingency plans for a baby and wedding shouldn't be that difficult.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: StarDrifter on April 03, 2013, 07:08:08 PM
Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is due in 10 days and has two weddings she's been invited to (tomorrow and Saturday) I don't blame K for not moving her wedding date.

One of the weddings was planned 2+ years out - the date was picked right around the time Husband and I were having our first wedding anniversary. We found out about my pregnancy and looked at the calendar - oh hell Star's due the same week that BIL is getting married! So we called BIL and FSIL and let them know that there's a niece/nephew incoming and that s/he is likely to appear around the time of their wedding. We also let everyone else know about our expected due date around the same time, and although MIL is a little saddened that her eldest son won't be at her youngest son's wedding (it's a 9 hour drive away) she accepts it for what it is. BIL and FSIL are happy for us and really don't mind that Baby is due then; like FSIL said to me - babies will do what they want!

I never in a bajillion years expected her to change anything because of me!

The other wedding (tomorrow) is local, as in, I could walk to the ceremony location even though I'm 38+ weeks. So, unless I go into labour tonight, we'll be attending. This wedding was planned in a matter of months, the date was picked around Christmas and the bride was well aware of my due date when she chose it. She knew up front that our attendance was 'baby permitting' and has no issue with it either.

In this situation it does sound like it's the parents who have the issue and would not be happy even if K did move her wedding; because if she moves it earlier, there is still a chance that the baby might come early, and if she moves it later, then "How can you expect your sister to bring Precious Grandbaby out into the Big Bad World when s/he is so tiny?" I think K is doing completely the right thing and as long as her sister has no issue, and K is aware that C's attendance is 'baby permitting', then the problem disappears.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Firecat on April 03, 2013, 07:11:42 PM
Coming at this from the perspective of someone who is due in 10 days and has two weddings she's been invited to (tomorrow and Saturday) I don't blame K for not moving her wedding date.

One of the weddings was planned 2+ years out - the date was picked right around the time Husband and I were having our first wedding anniversary. We found out about my pregnancy and looked at the calendar - oh hell Star's due the same week that BIL is getting married! So we called BIL and FSIL and let them know that there's a niece/nephew incoming and that s/he is likely to appear around the time of their wedding. We also let everyone else know about our expected due date around the same time, and although MIL is a little saddened that her eldest son won't be at her youngest son's wedding (it's a 9 hour drive away) she accepts it for what it is. BIL and FSIL are happy for us and really don't mind that Baby is due then; like FSIL said to me - babies will do what they want!

I never in a bajillion years expected her to change anything because of me!

The other wedding (tomorrow) is local, as in, I could walk to the ceremony location even though I'm 38+ weeks. So, unless I go into labour tonight, we'll be attending. This wedding was planned in a matter of months, the date was picked around Christmas and the bride was well aware of my due date when she chose it. She knew up front that our attendance was 'baby permitting' and has no issue with it either.

In this situation it does sound like it's the parents who have the issue and would not be happy even if K did move her wedding; because if she moves it earlier, there is still a chance that the baby might come early, and if she moves it later, then "How can you expect your sister to bring Precious Grandbaby out into the Big Bad World when s/he is so tiny?" I think K is doing completely the right thing and as long as her sister has no issue, and K is aware that C's attendance is 'baby permitting', then the problem disappears.

<threadjack> The combination of the last line of your post and your tagline just made me laugh out loud  ;D. </threadjack>
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gramma dishes on April 03, 2013, 07:42:09 PM
I think K should keep her plans for her wedding intact. 

The chance that the baby will be born on exactly that day at the precise time of the ceremony is infinitesimally small.  If it does turn out that way, then the parents (both the sisters' parents and the brand new parents) will have to make some choices.

Maybe if labor is still in progress during the ceremony, they can skype or something, which the sisters both seem fine with.

Or they can have a private family party after the wedding where a DVD of the wedding is shown to anyone who missed the actual ceremony.
 
The parents are not being very reasonable here.  And they're expecting one daughter to completely run around in circles to appease the other.  Thank goodness, the pregnant sister is fine here.  It's just the parents.  They can choose to do what they wish.

Hopefully K and C will just go ahead with their respective wedding and pregnancy plans and not worry about what Mom and Dad think about it.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 03, 2013, 08:03:30 PM
The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict.   K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby.  Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date.  She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?).  She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date.  If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end.  She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.
This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too.  But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work.  Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear.  She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can.  If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending. 

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.

I guess that perspective is based on family dynamics. In my family it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the mom and grandfather to be at the hospital when the baby is born and to be available to help out when the baby comes home.

If that is the case in this family, the mom is going to spend the next 6-7 months hoping that the baby doesn't come until after the wedding. I know I'd feel aweful if I had to tell my DD who had just delivered a child "Sorry, sweetie, I've got to leave now to go to your sister's wedding."  While I'm sure my DD would understand, it would still be hard to do. Or worse for them to get a call during the ceremony that the baby been delivered, but the grandparents can't leave because they are at a wedding or if they did leave, they'd feel like they were abadoning one DD for the other. 

That's just additional worry and stress I'd never had wanted to put my mom through.  And my mom would have stressed about it. She never wanted one of us to feel less loved then another so trying to balance to things like this would have drove her a little bonkers.

In my family it is reasonable for the grandparents (and aunts/uncles to be there when the baby is born too).  It is also reasonable to be there in the days or even weeks after.  The reality is that it is also possible to have the baby early - weeks or even a couple of months.  So that would mean as the much older sister who has never been married I would have to alter my plans by several months to make sure there was no conflict. That is the last thing my sisters would want.  Especially since I could leave the wedding on the scheduled date and it is just as possible everyone would be there for the baby's birth because babies don't come on schedule.

I'm not saying I would try to remove all possibility of a conflict, but the most probable. Most babies arrive within a few weeks of the estimated delivery, so I'd try to avoid scheduling for those 4 weeks.

I'd be looking at the dates based on risk, probability of occurrence and impact if it did occur. The further away I schedule from her due date, the less probability of a conflict.

You can never schedule around every unknown factor. But I do like to schedule around known factors.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bah12 on April 03, 2013, 08:26:47 PM
The thing is, C isn't the one that is insisting on a date change...and C is really the only one with a conflict.   K's parents are being ridiculous at best and if I were C, I'd be scared to death and how involved and present they plan on being during and immediately after the birth of my baby.  Heck, C may even want them to be distracted by K's wedding.

I don't think K was rude not to consult with her family members before choosing a date.  She's obviously not springing this on them at the last minute (she's at least 6 months out, right?).  She chose a date that was important to her and her FH and then told her family the date.  If she's expected to find an ideal time for her immediate family, her FH's immediate family...then where does it end.  She can't forget about her best friends, grandparents, Aunt Ethel who's always been there for her, etc.
This is her special day and if it's important to her friends and family, they can start making arrangements and fixing their schedules so they can be there...and if they can't, that's ok too.  But it's pretty awful, IMO, for anyone to say "Change your wedding date to accommodate me."

And I'm trying to picture how this conversation with C was supposed to go.  "C, I know you are trying to get pregnant.  How's that going?  I'm planning my wedding and I need there not to be any conflicts.  What date works for you?"

"Well K, thanks for asking.  Not pregnant yet, but I'm going to keep trying so can you hold off until I'm successful and then plan for something a good 6 to 9 months later to make sure that everything is fine with the baby and I'll be up for going."

It just doesn't seem to work.  Since K and C are already discussing ways for C to see the ceremony, then I think that K is in the clear.  She knows her sister cares and wants to be part of it in any way she can.  If I were K, that would mean as much to me as her attending. 

If only we could say her parents (who have zero conflict) are being that reasonable.

I guess that perspective is based on family dynamics. In my family it would be perfectly reasonable to expect the mom and grandfather to be at the hospital when the baby is born and to be available to help out when the baby comes home.

If that is the case in this family, the mom is going to spend the next 6-7 months hoping that the baby doesn't come until after the wedding. I know I'd feel aweful if I had to tell my DD who had just delivered a child "Sorry, sweetie, I've got to leave now to go to your sister's wedding."  While I'm sure my DD would understand, it would still be hard to do. Or worse for them to get a call during the ceremony that the baby been delivered, but the grandparents can't leave because they are at a wedding or if they did leave, they'd feel like they were abadoning one DD for the other. 

That's just additional worry and stress I'd never had wanted to put my mom through.  And my mom would have stressed about it. She never wanted one of us to feel less loved then another so trying to balance to things like this would have drove her a little bonkers.

In my family it is reasonable for the grandparents (and aunts/uncles to be there when the baby is born too).  It is also reasonable to be there in the days or even weeks after.  The reality is that it is also possible to have the baby early - weeks or even a couple of months.  So that would mean as the much older sister who has never been married I would have to alter my plans by several months to make sure there was no conflict. That is the last thing my sisters would want.  Especially since I could leave the wedding on the scheduled date and it is just as possible everyone would be there for the baby's birth because babies don't come on schedule.

I'm not saying I would try to remove all possibility of a conflict, but the most probable. Most babies arrive within a few weeks of the estimated delivery, so I'd try to avoid scheduling for those 4 weeks.

I'd be looking at the dates based on risk, probability of occurrence and impact if it did occur. The further away I schedule from her due date, the less probability of a conflict.

You can never schedule around every unknown factor. But I do like to schedule around known factors.

But in doing that, you're only scheduling for your own conflict (being there for the birth) not your daughter's (which would several more weeks...some before, more after) surrounding that birth.  I think if you're going to ask someone to schedule around a birth, you should take into considertion the mother (not just your desire to be there that day) and you're looking at a much longer time frame than just a month.  It becomes more difficult.  Someone may choose to do that for you, but if they don't, it's not rude.  The request really is more than you're giving credit. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: mmswm on April 03, 2013, 08:30:19 PM
I'm in the "Keep the wedding date" camp.  Even my mother, who we all know has some issues, was able to balance conflicting demands of major events in her children's lives.

My oldest son wasn't due until June.  At the time we lived in different states.  My sister, who went to a university in our hometown was set to graduate in May.  I went into premature labor two days before her graduation.  My mother jumped in her car, drove to where I was, stayed through the birth/transfer to NICU at a hospital two hours away, hung out with the baby until the last minute, jumped in her car again, drove to the graduation, attended the graduation and then the dinner party afterwards, caught an hour nap and drove back to me since I was having some major PPD issues mostly triggered by the fact that I was two hours away from my baby and my own health problems kept me from being released for 4 days.  The distance between my hometown and where I was living was about 12.5 hours, so this wasn't a quick trip for her, but both of her daughters were important and so she did what she had to do.

If K and C's mother really wants to be there for both of her daughters, she'll find a way to do it and stop making excuses.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 03, 2013, 08:49:07 PM
snip

I'm not saying I would try to remove all possibility of a conflict, but the most probable. Most babies arrive within a few weeks of the estimated delivery, so I'd try to avoid scheduling for those 4 weeks.

I'd be looking at the dates based on risk, probability of occurrence and impact if it did occur. The further away I schedule from her due date, the less probability of a conflict.

You can never schedule around every unknown factor. But I do like to schedule around known factors.

But in doing that, you're only scheduling for your own conflict (being there for the birth) not your daughter's (which would several more weeks...some before, more after) surrounding that birth.  I think if you're going to ask someone to schedule around a birth, you should take into considertion the mother (not just your desire to be there that day) and you're looking at a much longer time frame than just a month.  It becomes more difficult.  Someone may choose to do that for you, but if they don't, it's not rude.  The request really is more than you're giving credit.

As I've said, I'm stating what I would do. My focus would be on trying to reduce probability of  conflict for my mother. That would be my initial focus. And as other posters have stated, the sister hasn't raised a concern about not being able to attend the wedding, it's been the bride's mother who is concerned.

But even with that, based on experience with the women who's given birth in my family, the probability of  one of us not being able to attend a function that didn't require travel up to the day of delivery would be very low. My sisters and cousins all had easy pregnancies. We all also had easy recoveries and were pretty darn active immediately after delivery.

But what I would really do because I'm very close to my sisters would be to move the date up or out for a minimum of 3 months so that we'd be very confident that she could attend.

That's my position. Etiquette does not dictate the bride change her date. The parent's nor sister should request her to change her date.

But my initial reaction upon hearing the news would be to go home and call fiance and say "Bad news, we have to change the date".  I would probably even take a financial hit if I'd already put down a deposit. But I understand that not everyone has this same reaction.

My respone was to the point someone made that the only people impacted was the sisters. Yes, they may be the only ones who miss each other's big events. But juggling both events so close together also impacts the other family members. 

Yes, it is very unlikely the birth will occur on the same day as the wedding or rehearsal dinner. But I can't imagine being able to focus solely on my wedding if my sister was off giving birth and the closer my wedding date is to the birth, the more likely it is to occur.  Or even false labor occuring. And while my Mom would have sat in the front pew and showed all signs of her attention being solely focused on my wedding, I would know that part of her brain and heart would be with her other daughter worrying about her well being should she be in active labor or even false labor.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gellchom on April 03, 2013, 08:51:03 PM
It occurs to me that we are all picturing such different situations. 

I was baffled by posts that said that it would seem weird to discuss dates with immediate family before committing and that a mother of the bride's time commitment is only 12 hours max. 

My point isn't that those posters are wrong.  Not at all!  But they are picturing very different scenarios than I, and it seems many other posters, are.

Some weddings are small, and everyone lives in or near the same city, and there aren't many out of town guests, so the wedding is a few-hours event, and the parents are coming in from out of town, and the bride and groom are doing all the planning, and it's a family and community in which weddings are not so family-focused as in others, and the bride and her parents don't have the best relationship.  So, yeah, then, maybe, 12 hours.

But not all weddings are like that. Some weddings are family-centric gatherings 200 people, and in a city where one set of parents but NO ONE else lives, and the parents are hosting, and there are a hundred and fifty out of town guests coming for a three-day weekend, and the custom in their family and community is to entertain all of them the whole weekend.  (I have just described my son's wedding a year and a half ago, and probably my daughter's wedding next year.)  Twelve hours?  Yeah, right!  Sometimes I feel like my daughter is expecting me to focus on it 12 hours a DAY!  (I'm not complaining; it's fun doing the planning together.)  She absolutely checked the date with everyone before choosing it, let alone making any deposits.  She even asked her brother and sister-in-law if it was okay with them if she chose Labor Day weekend, as they had.

Ditto babies.  When my children were born, my mother came for a few days before the due date to grocery shop, cook, and learn how our house runs so she could run things and take care of the other visitors and let us rest and focus on the baby.  And I was so glad she was there for the births, too -- even in the room the second time.  She was such a huge help.  The second time, I had preeclampsia, and had to lie down for a week before the birth; I don't know how we would have managed without her, especially with a preschooler to care for.  She sure couldn't have left to go help someone with a wedding.

But in other families, the grandparents are the very last people the parents want around at a birth.  And there is nothing wrong with simply wanting privacy. 

My point is that we are all looking at a different part of the elephant, as it were.  In my family, it would really seem strange not to precheck a wedding date -- but look how many posters say it is exactly the opposite in their families.  And in my family, I can't imagine someone not changing a wedding date from a sister's due date week (just for the sake of it being the date of the first "I love you" -- it would be very different if there were some compelling reason that would be really hard to get around).  Not because it would be seen as rude not to, but because both sisters would want very much to maximize the chances that they could be at each other's events, in addition to trying not to make it too hard on the parents.  But not every family is like that, and what would work for some would not work for others at ALL.

I do think that just because it would be POSSIBLE for the parents to juggle everything, it's not unreasonable or "making excuses" to prefer to space out the events a bit. 

K knows her family, she knows how much she cares if C can attend her wedding, and she knows what will work best for her and for them.  And I'm sure that's what she will do!
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 08:53:25 PM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.

I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: JenJay on April 03, 2013, 09:04:07 PM
OP, is there some reason why C & K's parents would have to choose to either attend the wedding or be nearby for the birth? Will the wedding be more than a few hours drive from where C will deliver?

The odds that the baby will be born on the same day as, let alone within hours of, the wedding have got to be so slim. I can see if the wedding will be a full days drive or longer then the grandparents-to-be might be fretting over what to do. I don't think K should change her date, but she might need to prepare for the possibility that her sister, BIL and parents won't be there.  :-\
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: KenveeB on April 03, 2013, 09:04:08 PM
Why is K the bad guy for not checking with her sister? C knew that K was planning a wedding. Why shouldn't she have checked with K to make sure of potential wedding dates before trying to get pregnant? If you think that's bizarre and intrusive, then why is it okay to make K check on her sister's family planning before setting her date?

I think that K's parents are sending out a very clear message that K simply isn't the important sister. She is supposed to do all the checking and accommodating of her life's major events so that C can have the spotlight. That's ridiculous. C doesn't care about it or think that K is being unreasonable, so the parents should also be able to accept it. If I were K, I would tell my parents very frankly, "I'm hurt that you don't seem to think my finding the man of my dreams and getting married is important. You don't think I should have the wedding I want to have, and you're creating this conflict with C's due date when C is completely fine with it. Either come to my wedding or don't, but I'm tired of you creating so much drama around it."
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gramma dishes on April 03, 2013, 09:12:32 PM
...

I think that K's parents are sending out a very clear message that K simply isn't the important sister. She is supposed to do all the checking and accommodating of her life's major events so that C can have the spotlight. ...

That was my reaction too.  They seemed to "forget" (repeatedly) that this was a smaller than C's, but still traditional wedding.  Not a JP courthouse wedding.  They immediately reacted to the current dilemma with an immediate assumption that K would and should change her wedding date to accommodate C's approximate delivery date.  It sounds like they really don't seem to care much about K at all, or even listen to her.  C is apparently the golden child here.

Fortunately K and C seem to love each other very much and so far there are no apparent hard feelings between them, but I have a feeling that's just because they are great young women who somehow have managed to deal on their own terms with the parents' rather obvious partiality. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Bluenomi on April 03, 2013, 09:18:50 PM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.

I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...

Yes, it can matter more at her age. She and her partner might be planning kids as soon as they are married and an extra years wait could have serious impact on their fertility. Not to mention delaying your wedding a whole year just because your sister is pregnant is nuts.

If K and C are happy to sort things out between them, it isn't the parents business. The only people who get to pick the wedding date are the bride and groom. If the sister really wanted to be there, she should have let them know she was pregant earlier since she knew they were engaged and working out a date. She didn't so she's clearly not too bothered.

The parents have clearly shown they don't give a rats about K since they think she's only entitled to a court house wedding and think that someone else having a baby means they have to move the wedding. The only baby they should move their wedding for would be their own!
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 03, 2013, 09:23:46 PM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.

I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...

Yes, it can matter more at her age. She and her partner might be planning kids as soon as they are married and an extra years wait could have serious impact on their fertility. Not to mention delaying your wedding a whole year just because your sister is pregnant is nuts.

If K and C are happy to sort things out between them, it isn't the parents business. The only people who get to pick the wedding date are the bride and groom. If the sister really wanted to be there, she should have let them know she was pregant earlier since she knew they were engaged and working out a date. She didn't so she's clearly not too bothered.

The parents have clearly shown they don't give a rats about K since they think she's only entitled to a court house wedding and think that someone else having a baby means they have to move the wedding. The only baby they should move their wedding for would be their own!

That was sarcasm, sorry if I was unclear. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: zyrs on April 04, 2013, 12:08:35 AM
I think that K's parents are sending out a very clear message that K simply isn't the important sister.

This is what I picked up as well.  It's the ignoring what type of wedding that K wants that really drives it home.

If I were K, I'd figure out how to virtually have C witness the wedding as it happens.  And I probably wouldn't invite my parents.  But then my wife and I eloped to avoid family drama.

Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: LifeOnPluto on April 04, 2013, 06:02:01 AM
Where is the wedding taking place? If it's in the same city/town as C lives, I think the parents are overreacting.

If it's in a different location, I can see how the parents might feel torn. They have a choice between staying close to C, or travelling to the location where K is getting married.

Actually, I just re-read my last paragraph. From the information in the OP, it sounds like it's a no-brainer - the parents are probably going to choose to stick close to C, no matter what.

So if K is getting married in a different location, and she's not prepared to move the wedding date, she'll simply have to accept the fact that none of her immediate family are going to be there. It sucks, but there you have it.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 04, 2013, 10:50:08 AM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...

But from what I can tell, the couple isn't concerned about running into conflict with any one else's schedule.

But to play along, let's say the sister is due the week of Jan 6th with the original date being Jan 11th, about 7 months out.  I'd probably start looking at the dates of Nov 10th - 24th or push it and look at Feb 15th - Mar 15th.  Still gives me lots of options to find a weekend that doesn't conflict with other family events if that is of a concern to me.

Believe, me if their date was a hard and fast date because of other work, school, or another factor like grooms sister will be in the country that weekend only and they've already committed to having the wedding when she is available, I wouldn't worry about the date. But I'm not enough of a romantic to prioritze an emotionally attachment to a date to not even consider moving the date.

I don't know this family dynamics. It could be that the bride has always played second fiddle to her sister and just doesn't want to do it again. That's fine, I'm not saying she needs to. I'm just stating what I would do.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 04, 2013, 10:58:26 AM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...

But from what I can tell, the couple isn't concerned about running into conflict with any one else's schedule.

But to play along, let's say the sister is due the week of Jan 6th with the original date being Jan 11th, about 7 months out.  I'd probably start looking at the dates of Nov 10th - 24th or push it and look at Feb 15th - Mar 15th.  Still gives me lots of options to find a weekend that doesn't conflict with other family events if that is of a concern to me.

Believe, me if their date was a hard and fast date because of other work, school, or another factor like grooms sister will be in the country that weekend only and they've already committed to having the wedding when she is available, I wouldn't worry about the date. But I'm not enough of a romantic to prioritze an emotionally attachment to a date to not even consider moving the date.

I don't know this family dynamics. It could be that the bride has always played second fiddle to her sister and just doesn't want to do it again. That's fine, I'm not saying she needs to. I'm just stating what I would do.

That only works if nobody else on either side has planned a wedding/baby/tavel/event during that time.  Or if weather isn't an issue during that time. Or if the HC themselves don't have conflicts during that time.  And that the venue they need  is available.  Having all of those needs converge seem pretty unlikely to me. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Secret on April 04, 2013, 11:05:34 AM
It sounds to me like the parents watch too much TV.  Babies always seem to come in the middle of a wedding ceremony.  I feel bad for K, but she and her sister seem to have an understanding. Besides, the parents can easily arrange for both with i'm going to say 86% certainty  ;).  I am going to be 8 mothns pregnant at a family wedding and with  my first kid having to be evicted from the womb late, I had no second thoughts that I may not attend. However, after reading this thread, I am getting second thoughts that I may be too confident!
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 04, 2013, 11:07:51 AM
It sounds to me like the parents watch too much TV.  Babies always seem to come in the middle of a wedding ceremony.  I feel bad for K, but she and her sister seem to have an understanding. Besides, the parents can easily arrange for both with i'm going to say 86% certainty  ;).  I am going to be 8 mothns pregnant at a family wedding and with  my first kid having to be evicted from the womb late, I had no second thoughts that I may not attend. However, after reading this thread, I am getting second thoughts that I may be too confident!

FWIW, on tv it is frequently the bride, her child or her parent who is the pregnant one (and it always happens during sweeps week)
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 04, 2013, 11:18:33 AM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...

But from what I can tell, the couple isn't concerned about running into conflict with any one else's schedule.

But to play along, let's say the sister is due the week of Jan 6th with the original date being Jan 11th, about 7 months out.  I'd probably start looking at the dates of Nov 10th - 24th or push it and look at Feb 15th - Mar 15th.  Still gives me lots of options to find a weekend that doesn't conflict with other family events if that is of a concern to me.

Believe, me if their date was a hard and fast date because of other work, school, or another factor like grooms sister will be in the country that weekend only and they've already committed to having the wedding when she is available, I wouldn't worry about the date. But I'm not enough of a romantic to prioritze an emotionally attachment to a date to not even consider moving the date.

I don't know this family dynamics. It could be that the bride has always played second fiddle to her sister and just doesn't want to do it again. That's fine, I'm not saying she needs to. I'm just stating what I would do.

That only works if nobody else on either side has planned a wedding/baby/tavel/event during that time.  Or if weather isn't an issue during that time. Or if the HC themselves don't have conflicts during that time.  And that the venue they need  is available.  Having all of those needs converge seem pretty unlikely to me.
I am not doing a good job of getting across what I'm trying to say.

In my above analogy I've given myself 7 Saturday options of an alternate date. I then have the ability to review other conflicts and find the one that works the best based on my and my fiance's priorities. If none of those 7 dates would work, for one reason or another, then I have to accept the fact that I won't be able to a)move the date far from my sister's due date or b)have the wedding within a few months of my original planned date.

Do I believe any date will be perfect? No, there is always be some type of conflict. I have two family weddings coming up. The both B&G's collected info on close family member schedules. One ended up having to schedule theirs in a different city the day after my DD's prom but looking at what they had to work around other family members events, that was the best they could do. The other is scheduled in our city, but is the weekend after my DD starts college out of state, and she is to be a BM. Would we rather not have to fly her back the next weekend after sending her off and have her miss class on her first week of school? Yes, but based on other family factors (one being the bride's sister's delivery date) and church availability that was the best they could do.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: bah12 on April 04, 2013, 11:32:19 AM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...

But from what I can tell, the couple isn't concerned about running into conflict with any one else's schedule.But to play along, let's say the sister is due the week of Jan 6th with the original date being Jan 11th, about 7 months out.  I'd probably start looking at the dates of Nov 10th - 24th or push it and look at Feb 15th - Mar 15th.  Still gives me lots of options to find a weekend that doesn't conflict with other family events if that is of a concern to me.

Believe, me if their date was a hard and fast date because of other work, school, or another factor like grooms sister will be in the country that weekend only and they've already committed to having the wedding when she is available, I wouldn't worry about the date. But I'm not enough of a romantic to prioritze an emotionally attachment to a date to not even consider moving the date.

I don't know this family dynamics. It could be that the bride has always played second fiddle to her sister and just doesn't want to do it again. That's fine, I'm not saying she needs to. I'm just stating what I would do.

See, the thing is, the couple isn't concerned about conflicting with her parents either.  They have no obligation to change the date because her mother demands it. 
And I get that some brides would do it for their mother.  Heck, if my mom had a legitimate conflict, I'd definitely have changed my wedding date for her to be there.  But, my mother wouldn't demand that I change my wedding so that she can wait by the phone for news of a baby's arrival.  She wouldn't have made it my responsibility to make sure that she doesn't have to parent more than one child at a time.  And most importantly, she wouldn't have diminshed my wedding and not listened to me when I told her about it, simply because she deemed me an "old bride."

And I really really do think that it's awfully expectant for someone not having a baby and not the father (or birthing coach) of that baby to think that anyone would alter a major milestone in thier life just to minimize the very remote possiblity that the baby will be born during the wedding ceremony.  I mean, C isn't even saying "It's ultra-important that mom is right there in the room with me the moment I give birth, no exceptions."  This is a mother who is only thinking of herself.  She deosn't seem to care that C will miss the wedding (yet, neither does C).  And she sounds exhausting.

And I also am having a hard time understanding how a parent wouldn't have the capacity to support two children through major life events at the same time.  I can't understand how one having a (presumably healthy) baby would in any way diminish the joy of watching her daughter marry.  I'm pretty sure that children have multiple things going on at the same time a lot.  Why would any parent expect that they would only deal with/love/support one child at a time.  I watch my sister balance five kids, with their injuries, sports, dance, school, graduations, etc constantly.  She once said "having many children doesn't divide my heart among them.  Instead, my heart has increased it's capacity to love 10 times for each child.  It's amazing."  One day, she'll be dealing with wedding, babies, etc....and with that many kids I would venture to say that a baby and wedding is bound to occur at the same time at some point.  And I'm pretty sure she'll recognize then that neither of those events are about her and be there for those kids the same as she always has.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 04, 2013, 11:35:53 AM
The thinng is - these parents apparently don't think a woman over 30 should have a weeding like this, period.  It sounds like they would object whether it conflicted with her sister's due date, their bridge club or a sale at Art Van. 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: lmyrs on April 04, 2013, 11:38:12 AM
My youngest sister's wedding was on my other sister's due date. Wedding was in the town other sister lived, but over 100 miles away from the hospital. The wedding was set before the baby was announced. Other sister was also a BM for Youngest Sister. Other sister's first baby was right on time but it was a very hard birth with Baby 1 staying in NICU for a couple weeks.

My mom was a bit worried about what would happen if baby came on wedding day. And everyone agreed: Go To Wedding. When wedding ceremony and maybe some visiting with the 300 out of town guests, she'd go to hospital. Perfectly reasonable compromise. 

And after all the worry, baby came over 6 weeks early and spent several weeks in NICU but was able to attend the wedding on the big day. Any attempts to reschedule the wedding would have been completely fruitless. Because babies so rarely come when convenient.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 04, 2013, 12:53:44 PM
The thinng is - these parents apparently don't think a woman over 30 should have a weeding like this, period.  It sounds like they would object whether it conflicted with her sister's due date, their bridge club or a sale at Art Van.

If the question in the subject line "Is it rude to diminish a weddings importance because of couple's age." that's what I would be discussing.

However, the subject is about postponement. And I don't think it's rude to not postpone, it would be something I would consider and not flat out say no.

(I think I've been facilitating too many meetings recently and trying to keep people on topic. I'm starting to repeat myself and not adding any value to this discussion anymore.)
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: fountainof on April 04, 2013, 07:07:31 PM
I agree with some others that personal family situations, etc. colour our opinions.  In my area you find the place (church, reception location) first and then choose a date.  If you need an exact date you need to book 2 years in advance!!!  So for most couples it is chosen by first talking to your church and seeing what is free and then deciding if you like the dates and if you aren't church going you find an alternate location you like.  So changing a wedding date is not easy.  Especially because people really only get married between May and October here with the odd person here and there choosing a new year's eve or valentine's day wedding.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: sammycat on April 04, 2013, 07:34:53 PM
I agree with some others that personal family situations, etc. colour our opinions.  In my area you find the place (church, reception location) first and then choose a date. If you need an exact date you need to book 2 years in advance!!!  So for most couples it is chosen by first talking to your church and seeing what is free and then deciding if you like the dates and if you aren't church going you find an alternate location you like.  So changing a wedding date is not easy.

That's the experience of every wedding I've been too as well (including my own).  It's not as simple as saying 'pick another date'.  It may take months, or a year, to coordinate a venue and wedding location.

My reading of the OP's situation is that the parents have always put the pregnant sister ahead of the engaged sister. I would not, under any circumstances, change my wedding date in this situation. Engaged sister is entitled to her moment to shine. The pregnant sister seems fine with the date; the parents just look as though they are looking for an excuse to downplay engaged sister's situation (again?). I would not let them.

If I were pregnant sister and I just happened to go into labour on the wedding day, I would be 100% understanding of my parents going to the wedding. In fact, I'd insist on it. The baby will still be there a few hours later when the grandparents can visit. On the other hand, the wedding events can't just be put on hold until the parents turn up. If I were pregnant sister, I'd feel bad/guilty if my parents chose to sit in a waiting room for hours rather than attend my sister's wedding, and if I were engaged sister, I'd be furious/hurt that my parents chose to sit in a waiting room rather than attend my wedding.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 04, 2013, 08:28:03 PM
Having had numerous babies (ha!) and had my parents generally come in a few days or a week before the birth, then stay a week or two after the birth to help out and watch the other kids, I still can't see a wedding, even an out-of-state wedding, right around the birth, being something they couldn't handle.  I'd need a backup plan for childcare, certainly (although that isn't really applicable to this story, as I think the OP said it was C's first).  But usually right after the baby is born, you're in the hospital for a couple of days, and exhausted, and getting used to a new baby... it's not the end of the world if the grandparents miss the first few days after the birth.  And that's being pessimistic, assuming that the baby was born as the grandparents were about to leave for the wedding, so that they had to miss the entire few days it took to travel to the wedding, enjoy the wedding and reception, and then travel to where I was with the new baby.  Think of how much fun they'd have sharing the news at the wedding reception!  The sister could send some pictures and hopefully somebody with a smartphone could show them.  I don't think that showing off some pictures of the new baby at the reception to other relatives would totally hijack the wedding, anyway (because how much of the time at the reception are people actually talking about the happy couple?  Probably not all that much, as most people enjoy the chance to chat and catch up, etc.).  And, of course, if the baby didn't arrive until the day of the wedding, or something like that, the parents could enjoy the wedding and reception, then fly to the sister's city to see the new baby afterwards.  I don't think missing the first two days of a new baby's life is *that* dreadful.

Now, of course, that assumes that the sister is okay with missing the wedding if she needs to.  And I think that's the issue that a lot of people are concerned about.  Personally, for a sibling's wedding (even though I don't really like my brother all that much), I'd probably do pretty much what it took, short of deliberately putting myself in a position to have birth in a different city without my doctor, to go to the wedding.  I wouldn't love doing it, but I'd try.  However, I think I'd tell him that, out of necessity, my RSVP would *have* to either be "maybe, if I can," or "no."  If he couldn't accept a maybe because he needed a firm headcount, I'd need to RSVP no.  But if he could handle a maybe (and my husband's as well), then I'd make it a maybe and try to be there if I could, assuming that I wasn't pregnant and within two weeks of birth, or had given birth within the week.  Unless it was local, then I'd go as long as I wasn't in the hospital.  (And actually, now that I've had 4 kids who were all late and had to be induced, I'd probably go almost up to the due date, assuming I didn't have to fly.)
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: lowspark on April 05, 2013, 08:31:50 AM
I agree with some others that personal family situations, etc. colour our opinions.  In my area you find the place (church, reception location) first and then choose a date. If you need an exact date you need to book 2 years in advance!!!  So for most couples it is chosen by first talking to your church and seeing what is free and then deciding if you like the dates and if you aren't church going you find an alternate location you like.  So changing a wedding date is not easy.

That's the experience of every wedding I've been too as well (including my own).  It's not as simple as saying 'pick another date'.  It may take months, or a year, to coordinate a venue and wedding location.

My reading of the OP's situation is that the parents have always put the pregnant sister ahead of the engaged sister. I would not, under any circumstances, change my wedding date in this situation. Engaged sister is entitled to her moment to shine. The pregnant sister seems fine with the date; the parents just look as though they are looking for an excuse to downplay engaged sister's situation (again?). I would not let them.

If I were pregnant sister and I just happened to go into labour on the wedding day, I would be 100% understanding of my parents going to the wedding. In fact, I'd insist on it. The baby will still be there a few hours later when the grandparents can visit. On the other hand, the wedding events can't just be put on hold until the parents turn up. If I were pregnant sister, I'd feel bad/guilty if my parents chose to sit in a waiting room for hours rather than attend my sister's wedding, and if I were engaged sister, I'd be furious/hurt that my parents chose to sit in a waiting room rather than attend my wedding.

I agree with this whole post, especially the bolded.

It's interesting to read various viewpoints on this thread which come from different family dynamics and different family and regional differences in wedding planning and execution. As an example, gellchom's post of how a wedding in her case is not just the four hours of ceremony and reception, but a whole weekend of festivities with family and out of town guests, really would preclude the feasibility of the paragraph I bolded above.

However, this is not a hypothetical case of "what would you do in this situation?" It's a specific case where it's clear that the parents are hardly involved in the wedding at all, to the point of not even understanding or acknowledging what kind of wedding the daughter is having. If the parents were fully engaged in the planning and events surrounding the wedding, this question might not even be posted here because the dates would have been worked out and approved by all in advance. It's the fact that the parents have essentially separated themselves from recognizing their daughter's happiness and aspirations that is causing this issue in the first place.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Calistoga on April 05, 2013, 08:51:49 AM
I think the parents are being very, very icky here.

I would hate to have my parents miss my big day, and my wedding day got moved around a lot because of conflicts with schedules and the like. But that was an issue of 1-2 days, which isn't going to make much of a difference here. If the baby is born early...your sister can't come, because she'll have an infant. If the baby is born on time...your sister can't come, because she'll be in labor. If the baby is born late... your sister will be very very pregnant and may not be able to attend. So it's not as if moving a week one way or the other is going to help.

So do the parents expect the couple to move their wedding up so that sister can come while she's still pregnant? Or back so that she can attend with a 6 month old? Either request is unfair.

I'd also hate to not have my mom there holding my hand for my first kid. So I understand things from both sisters. I do not understand the parents just blowing one kid off here.

Here's a question? Just how pregnant is sister? Her due date RIGHT NOW and her actual date of delivery could be pretty different- mine has already changed 3 times.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Eeep! on April 05, 2013, 01:03:46 PM
So let's say that you eliminate a couple weeks on either side of the due date.  Then there are probably at least a couple weeks post partum. You are probably expected to avoid any holiday weekends.  And once you eliminate those dates there is a chance you might run into a conflict with other family members, maybe even somebody on the groom's side.I guess they could always wait an entire calender year so they can hit the significant date again.  When you are as old as K does it really matter? Of course, C might be pregnant again by then...

But from what I can tell, the couple isn't concerned about running into conflict with any one else's schedule.

But to play along, let's say the sister is due the week of Jan 6th with the original date being Jan 11th, about 7 months out.  I'd probably start looking at the dates of Nov 10th - 24th or push it and look at Feb 15th - Mar 15th.  Still gives me lots of options to find a weekend that doesn't conflict with other family events if that is of a concern to me.

Believe, me if their date was a hard and fast date because of other work, school, or another factor like grooms sister will be in the country that weekend only and they've already committed to having the wedding when she is available, I wouldn't worry about the date. But I'm not enough of a romantic to prioritze an emotionally attachment to a date to not even consider moving the date.

I don't know this family dynamics. It could be that the bride has always played second fiddle to her sister and just doesn't want to do it again. That's fine, I'm not saying she needs to. I'm just stating what I would do.

I would first like to note that the following is based on the fact that the OP has indicated that her and her sister have worked out their own arrangement and that the sister is fine with the plan.

That said, I really find the bolded above a huuuuge change.  You want a January wedding but would be willing to do November or February or March? That is moving into a whole different season of the year. If bride has had a dream of what her wedding would be like it very well could involve a season. For instance, I had dresses that I had designed for my bridesmaids. They were part of my planning. They were velvet. That made it that I wanted to have a winter wedding.  Now I realize that for many the bridesmaid dress might not be important, but something like location could be. Perhaps the bride wants to have it outside - 3 months would make a big difference.   A couple months could push the wedding into a busy season where finding a location would be more difficult. 
I just think this way more of an accommodation than changing the date of your wedding by a weekend or two, which I could see someone doing more easily.

When you add in that I think it sounds abundantly clear that the parents don't really care about the bride's wedding one way or another, I think she should keep in on the date that is the anniversary of when her and her future husband first said I love you. That is a sweet - and legitimate - reason to pick a date.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 05, 2013, 02:42:11 PM
Yeah, a lot of people I know are teachers so the go to time for a wedding is over summer vacations because you can't schedule your vacation days so you take them when they fall.  Changing to another season could well mean weather so bad people can't make it, a schedule that would mean the HC couldn't then go on a honeymoon, etc.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gellchom on April 05, 2013, 03:52:42 PM
I think that the parents' behavior, right now and historically, is a red herring.  Even their feelings, legitimate or not, aren't the point.

What about C?  Sure, she said she's fine with it.  That is the nice thing to say.  She sounds very nice.  But chances are pretty significant that she won't be able to attend the wedding, especially if she lives in a different city.

And C and K seem to have a lovely relationship.  Are they the only siblings?

So: is a romantic date more important to K than having C be able to attend?  I mean, never mind what the parents want or whether anyone is pressuring her unfairly -- what does K herself want in terms of avoiding the time her sister is due?

It's really easy to add factors like a certain season being a bride's dream wedding and the like.  But no one said that's the case here.  I think that when we dream up hypotheticals like that, we are just trying to find a way to urge K to refuse even to CONSIDER changing to another date because we are so outraged that the parents have always favored C.  And that, to me, is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I'm with Hmmmmm.  If I were K, I'd ignore the pressure factor and look at how I wanted things to go.  If I wanted to maximize the chances of having everyone at my wedding and not wearing everyone, including myself out, with too much all at once (and minimizing the horrible possibility of something going wrong with the pregnancy or birth right around the time of the wedding), then I'd take a look at the calendar.  If I could easily move to a different date, say at least a couple weeks farther from the due date, then I think that is what I would do. 

I know that my situation isn't K's, and the question isn't what I would do, it's what she should do.  But at the same time, it's projecting onto her to assume that her goal is to punish her parents or to "stand her ground" or whatever. 

Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: HoneyBee42 on April 05, 2013, 06:54:24 PM
I think it is interesting how much our backgrounds color how we see the situation.

My own experience--when my brother got married the first time, I *was* already pregnant w/ a due date the first week of June when he announced his wedding date would be Father's Day (third Sunday in June, or in other words approximately two weeks after my due date -- I lived 900 miles away and *no way* would I and my newborn be cleared for that kind of a journey if he had shown up on his due date).  As it turned out, I gave birth 5 weeks early due to a serious pregnancy complication.  My second son spent a week in the extra care (just below NICU) nursery w/ issues re: oxygen sats and jaundice.  We did get clearance to travel, so I went to the wedding.

OTOH, I would rather walk hot coals while chewing cut glass than have my parents present *while* I am giving birth.  I've known other people who have had explicit plans to *not tell* the parents (one or both sides) when labor begins, and may even have part of the birth plan include "security will escort out if they show up anyway" w/ respect to one or more of the grandparents of the child being born.  C might well be *happy* that her parents have something to potentially distract them from showing up when she's in childbirth ... except they're not biting.

Since K and C are both good with their plans regarding the potential overlap of wedding day and baby's birth, I don't think the parents' wishes need to be accommodated, particularly in view of the fact that they are so utterly dismissive of their "geriatric" daughter's wedding.  They don't *need* to be present at the child's birth, and we quite frankly don't even know that C wants them to be.  Waiting for the phone call "good news, 'baby' is here, weighs so much, is this long" can be done anywhere ... including K's wedding and reception.  (But then, I'm the sort who expects to simply wait for the phone call and invitation to see the baby unless my daughter or potential future daughters-in-law explicitly requests my presence, first grandchild or whatever number thereafter.)
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Venus193 on April 05, 2013, 10:37:10 PM
I almost feel like I've arrived late to the party here.

K and C's parents are being entitled brats about this.  If C is OK with the possibility that she will miss her sister's wedding then nothing else should be said here.  The parents don't get a vote about the wedding date or the type of ceremony.  Considering that the Forbidden Wedding Date Window could theoretically force a six-month postponement, the parents need to be told to mind their own beeswax.

It does sound as though K has always taken a back seat to C with their parents if the parents are going so far as to

It's not rude to not move a wedding date for this.  The date should be meaningful for the couple if that is possible and that should not have to take a back seat to the parents' wishes.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: sammycat on April 05, 2013, 10:49:19 PM
I agree with Venus.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Possum on April 06, 2013, 11:11:23 AM
I guess I'm going to be odd in this, but while C and K aren't being rude, and her parents are--the parents also have a valid dilemma.  The wedding *is* all about the bride and groom.  Having a baby *is* all about mom, dad, and baby.  But seeing your daughter get married is a big deal.  With luck, it only happens once per kid. :D  Not to mention, what if K wants her father to give her away?

And not only is a first grandchild being born a huge deal, but it's also a medical one.  If something went terribly wrong, the about-to-be-grandparents would want to be there--and if it all goes well, they won't want to wait to meet their new grandchild.

In short, both are major milestones and life changing events for them, as well, and now they have to choose.

The rudeness comes in them so readily chosing one over the other, and declaring that K's wedding isn't that important.

If I were K, I would get past the sentimentality of the date and delay the wedding by a couple of months.  Why?  Because I would want my parents *and* my sister there.  It's not a manners thing--it's an "I want everyone there on my big day, and I want to be nearby and available when my niece or nephew is born."  Believe me, that birth, having people together on both occasions, is going to be a lot more sentimental than choosing the day you first said "I love you" (though that is a sweet reason to pick a date).

If it's just not possible, and the parents still have to chose, I hope one would attend each.  Perhaps the father could go to the wedding, especially if the bride wants to be given away, and the mother can attend the birth (or be ready to leave at the drop of a hat if C goes into labor).
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: camlan on April 06, 2013, 11:27:29 AM
What if K has decided enough with trying to please her family of origin? Now, she's going to please her new family--herself and her future husband. Isn't that what we advise here frequently?

What if it's K's future husband who wants this particular combination of date and venue?

What if K sees changing her wedding date to be just one more instance where her family places her sister above her and K has just Had It, and doesn't want to change one single thing more in her life to accommodate her sister?

And I don't think the real test of C's affection for K is C not being upset at missing K's wedding. I think the *real* test is: Will C be upset if one or both of her parents isn't present when she has the baby? In other words, C may be perfectly okay with missing the wedding only if she gets the undivided attention of her parents during that time. She may, in fact, be expecting that her parents will skip the wedding if she hasn't given birth yet, or even if she has.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 06, 2013, 11:37:40 AM
Possum, I think that these parents have made it clear that seeing this daughter get married is not a big deal to them and that, in their opinion, it shouldn't even be a big deal to the bride herself.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: snowdragon on April 06, 2013, 11:50:37 AM
Possum, If K gives in on this - she will end up being bullied into changing things for C's "convenience for the rest of her life.   It seems to me that K has had a lifetime with of being second fiddle to C and has had enough of it.

 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: RingTailedLemur on April 06, 2013, 12:05:48 PM
I'm surprised that K's parents even want to attend, given how little they think of the event.

Do we know if they are upset that a clash of dates might mean they can't attend, or if they fear the clash of dates will steal the thunder from their favourite daughter?
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 06, 2013, 12:11:31 PM
I'm surprised that K's parents even want to attend, given how little they think of the event.

Do we know if they are upset that a clash of dates might mean they can't attend, or if they fear the clash of dates will steal the thunder from their favourite daughter?

I think maybe they are thinking this will be what it takes to convince her to just have the courthouse wedding they expected her to have in the first place? 
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gramma dishes on April 06, 2013, 12:18:46 PM
I think K should keep her wedding date. 

Next time her parents bring it up, I'd say "Oh, wouldn't that be just the most fantastic thing if C actually did have her baby on our wedding day?  New Husband and I would have two things to celebrate on that day for the rest of our lives!  Our anniversary and Little Niece's or Nephew's birthday!  That would just be so awesome!  Of course we'd miss you at our wedding, but it would be for such a happy reason that it wouldn't upset us at all."
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gellchom on April 06, 2013, 12:23:06 PM
We cannot really be so quick to say that if K chooses to move her date, it is just knuckling under to bullying or another page in the history of the parents' preferring C over K.   K herself might want to try to keep the events separate in time.  If so, it isn't because K must always come second to C. It is that she can move the wedding date; C can't move the due date. 

It's still not rude for her not to move her date, and no one here has said so. 

I think some of us are just saying that IF K herself would be inclined to do so, it would be a mistake to refuse even to consider changing the date JUST BECAUSE her parents were rude or unfair.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: AngelicGamer on April 06, 2013, 02:20:01 PM
I think K should keep her wedding date. 

Next time her parents bring it up, I'd say "Oh, wouldn't that be just the most fantastic thing if C actually did have her baby on our wedding day?  New Husband and I would have two things to celebrate on that day for the rest of our lives!  Our anniversary and Little Niece's or Nephew's birthday!  That would just be so awesome!  Of course we'd miss you at our wedding, but it would be for such a happy reason that it wouldn't upset us at all."

I was going to post, but gramma dishes said what I was going to say.  :)
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Minmom3 on April 06, 2013, 08:02:52 PM
You know, that's just mean to her parents (extreme sarcasm intended here...) to be happy about the cause for them missing K's wedding.  And I'm good with that.  K and C are OK with the situation, no hard feelings there.  It's just the parents being uncaring about K's priorities, and putting C first, again.  So, if K could pull off being really happy about it all, that might spike the parents guns.  Which would not be a Bad Thing in my book!   >:D  Maybe let the parents feel the sting (large or small) of not being first on K's list of people to be deferred to.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TootsNYC on April 06, 2013, 08:08:39 PM
I was baffled by posts that said  . . . that a mother of the bride's time commitment is only 12 hours max. 


It is for THIS M.O.B.

Quote

Some weddings are small, and everyone lives in or near the same city, and there aren't many out of town guests, so the wedding is a few-hours event, and the parents are coming in from out of town, and the bride and groom are doing all the planning, and it's a family and community in which weddings are not so family-focused as in others, and the bride and her parents don't have the best relationship.  So, yeah, then, maybe, 12 hours.

I don't think we know how far away everything is, but the mother of the bride is doing SO LITTLE planning that she thinks the bride is getting married at the courthouse, when she has actually signed a contract with a venue already.

That's a huge part of my reaction, and a huge part (I'm guessing) of the reasoning of the people who say, "heck, the wedding will be MAXIMUM 12 hours."

Quote

When my children were born, my mother came for a few days before the due date to grocery shop, cook, and learn how our house runs so she could run things and take care of the other visitors and let us rest and focus on the baby.  And I was so glad she was there for the births, too -- even in the room the second time.  She was such a huge help.  The second time, I had preeclampsia, and had to lie down for a week before the birth; I don't know how we would have managed without her, especially with a preschooler to care for.  She sure couldn't have left to go help someone with a wedding.



But I bet she could have left to ATTEND a wedding.

*This particular bride* is not asking her mother to do anything--at least that we've heard so far. She picked a specific in-demand venue, completely without her mother's help (without her mother's *knowledge,* even) and she may have access to professionals there. And now that she knows her mom will be unavailable, she can hire professionals if she even needs them.



I personally don't get the idea that everyone in the family has to drop everything and sit at the hospital while they wait for someone ELSE to give birth. I just don't get it. You can wait at home as easily as you can wait there; even if medical complications arose, you wouldn't be allowed in the room anyway--might as well wait at home. And the dad can call you very nearly as soon as you'd hear if you were waiting in the hallway.

And you may not get to meet the new grandchild for several hours anyway! Are there hospitals where they take the kid out to hand him around 20 minutes after the birth?

Help after the delivery, yes, sure! But even then, the helper surely doesn't need to be there 24/7. And parents who were helping one child could surely be substituted for by someone else (oh, say, the dad's parents? as someone upstream suggested--or heck, a paid nurse's aide!).

UNLESS there is a lot of travel involved, this is just not a clash.

OP, I wish we knew how far away the baby's hospital/home will be from the wedding, and how far those are from the grandparents/m.o.b.'s home.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: sammycat on April 06, 2013, 08:20:16 PM
I personally don't get the idea that everyone in the family has to drop everything and sit at the hospital while they wait for someone ELSE to give birth. I just don't get it. You can wait at home as easily as you can wait there; even if medical complications arose, you wouldn't be allowed in the room anyway--might as well wait at home. And the dad can call you very nearly as soon as you'd hear if you were waiting in the hallway.

I completely agree!  I'm always amazed when I watch TV shows and as soon as the mother goes into labour every person she's ever met in her life suddenly rushes off to the hospital. How boring to sit in a waiting room for 12-24 hours (although on TV, labour usually end up only being 1 contraction long; however, I must confess my babies were both within an hour of arriving the hospital). My mother was present for my first son's birth but not the second; it has made no difference to the 'bonding' or the experience at all.

If I went into labour on my sister's wedding day, I would expect/insist on my parents going to the wedding. And what a great story to tell - new in-law and new grandchild, or new spouse and new niece or nephew, on the same day!
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sharnita on April 06, 2013, 08:32:31 PM
FWIW, I have had a few different experiences with that, though I've never given birth myself.  In one case I was there for a friend whose husband was there but nobody else.  SHe was in labor but it did not progress.  She actually got bored soit helped for me to be there to hang out, keep her company, etc.  It was at least 36 hours between the time she arrived at the hospital and the time they did the c-section.  Immediately afterwards they wouldn't let her out of recovery for quite a while so I and another friend who had arrived shortly before the c-section were asked to call family and frineds.

My SIL had an epidural so she was also feeling pretty good and had time to kill before the delivery. 

In a few other cases people were told they needed an emergency c-section now so there was no long wait.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: artk2002 on April 07, 2013, 10:18:23 AM
The thinng is - these parents apparently don't think a woman over 30 should have a weeding like this, period.  It sounds like they would object whether it conflicted with her sister's due date, their bridge club or a sale at Art Van.

If the question in the subject line "Is it rude to diminish a weddings importance because of couple's age." that's what I would be discussing.

However, the subject is about postponement. And I don't think it's rude to not postpone, it would be something I would consider and not flat out say no.

(I think I've been facilitating too many meetings recently and trying to keep people on topic. I'm starting to repeat myself and not adding any value to this discussion anymore.)

The postponement wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the diminishing of the importance of the wedding -- it may not be literally in the subject line, but it is strongly implied, so it's a very valid topic. We don't restrict our discussions here to the exact original question or subject line. You don't need to keep us "on topic" here -- nobody's  been drifting.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Syrse on April 07, 2013, 12:10:36 PM
It's been said before, but where on earth would you postpone to? A baby can come early, a baby can come late. So that's the month before and the month after, gone. Then there's the new baby, not being able to trade the house for a crowd in the first two months because of vaccinations and such. And that's assuming both baby and mom are recovering absolutely marvelous.

Are you supposed to get married a year after?  ???

How about the sister gives you her regrets, tries to be there unless baby suddenly decides to show up, and everybody just calm the heck down. In the incredible off chance that the baby gets born on the wedding day, you'll have a neat story to tell.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: kareng57 on April 07, 2013, 12:41:40 PM
I personally don't get the idea that everyone in the family has to drop everything and sit at the hospital while they wait for someone ELSE to give birth. I just don't get it. You can wait at home as easily as you can wait there; even if medical complications arose, you wouldn't be allowed in the room anyway--might as well wait at home. And the dad can call you very nearly as soon as you'd hear if you were waiting in the hallway.

I completely agree!  I'm always amazed when I watch TV shows and as soon as the mother goes into labour every person she's ever met in her life suddenly rushes off to the hospital. How boring to sit in a waiting room for 12-24 hours (although on TV, labour usually end up only being 1 contraction long; however, I must confess my babies were both within an hour of arriving the hospital). My mother was present for my first son's birth but not the second; it has made no difference to the 'bonding' or the experience at all.

If I went into labour on my sister's wedding day, I would expect/insist on my parents going to the wedding. And what a great story to tell - new in-law and new grandchild, or new spouse and new niece or nephew, on the same day!


It's not just on TV, there are families who really do this.  I had a co-worker take two vacation days while her niece was in labour; there was indeed the entire extended family in the waiting room.  I too don't get it - it's much more comfortable to do the waiting at home.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gramma dishes on April 07, 2013, 01:03:58 PM
It's not just on TV, there are families who really do this.  I had a co-worker take two vacation days while her niece was in labour; there was indeed the entire extended family in the waiting room.  I too don't get it - it's much more comfortable to do the waiting at home.

Times really have changed a LOT.  I had mine in the late 1960's and early 1970's.  Back then, believe it or not, the mother could only have ONE person (preferably her husband) in the waiting room.  Exceptions were made only for substituting one other family member in case the husband was in the military or for some other reason couldn't be there.

And the words "waiting room" are not a mistype.  I did not mean to say 'delivery room'.  For the first two babies, even the Daddy could not actually see (except through a glass window) or touch the baby until it left the hospital.  NO ONE except the mother and the medical staff were allowed in the delivery room.

By baby #3, Daddy could be in the delivery room and witness the birth, and he carried the baby into the recovery room himself and held her the whole time we were in there.  Then she came and lived in my hospital room with me, and her Daddy could see and hold her anytime he wanted.  But even then, other people were not allowed to come anywhere near the baby.

It would never have occurred to me to have either my own or my husband's parents present at the birth.  (And obviously it wouldn't have been allowed -- so no problems!)  But it is amazing to me how much things changed even during the few years between my first and last.   It almost seems like everyone now thinks they're "entitled" to hang around the hospital, be in the birthing room, play 'pass the baby around' immediately after its birth and so on. 

I'm not sure which way is better.  I think it's nice to have choices, but I do wonder sometimes if the mothers themselves actually have much say so in these situations anymore.  It seems like outsiders are maybe forcing their own wishes and expectations on the parents at a vulnerable time.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: mmswm on April 07, 2013, 01:11:29 PM
I was allowed to have a list of people who I didn't want anywhere near me, and considering the fact that he'd abandoned me while I was pregnant, my ex-husband was on that list for baby #3. The hospital was actually wonderful about that.  My ex showed up at the hospital once to visit the baby (after I'd been discharged) and they called me to let me know he was there just in case I was on my way and wanted to avoid him. I told them to call me when he left.

And yes, that is the one and only time my ex-husband has seen his youngest son.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gramma dishes on April 07, 2013, 01:21:28 PM
Before someone jumps in and says we're getting off topic, it isn't.  The point is that the parents are ASSUMING that they'll be present for C's child's birth.  I suspect no one has even thought of asking how C and her husband feel about that.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding? UPDATE
Post by: nuit93 on April 07, 2013, 08:30:23 PM
To provide a bit of background--yes, there is a history of the parents putting C before K when they were growing up.  This toxic behavior on the parents part is not entirely new, so K had never entirely planned on having her parents play a large (or any) part in her wedding.  C had been quite the brat when she was younger, but outgrew it and has grown much closer to K while realizing just how awful her parents had been (it's easy to miss when it's not directed at you).

C assured K that she shouldn't move her date out, as she put it "I didn't plan my wedding date around your life, I can't ask you to do the same".  If she can make it, she'll be there, if not she asked that K just save her a piece of wedding cake.

The parents, however, have still been difficult.  K received an email from them stating that if she still insisted on going through with this "wedding" (quotation marks from them), to not expect them to be excited about it, to help out in any way, or even attend. 

Now, once upon a time, K would have caved in to this and done exactly what they wanted her to, regardless of what she truly wanted.  Luckily, in the past decade she's developed a considerably more significant spine.  Her response?

"Well, that's unfortunate but ultimately up to you.  I will still extend you an invitation in the event you change your mind, as we are not changing our plans.  That said, if you only want to spend the whole day complaining about how ridiculous the whole event is while making cracks about how lucky I was to find someone in my "old age", then it would be in the best interest of all involved if you stay home because you will be asked to leave if you cannot be polite to myself or DH.  We are in the process of setting up a live stream that will allow C to watch the wedding online if she cannot be there and I will send you the link as well."

C is pretty proud of her big sis for standing up for herself.  She's also seriously reconsidering whether or not she wants her parents there at the hospital.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: gramma dishes on April 07, 2013, 08:34:37 PM
Yaaay to both sisters!  I'm sure that was a shock to the parents to be forced to realize that both daughters have adopted a "Frankly Dear Mother, we don't give a dingdangity!" feeling about both the wedding and their presence at the new baby's birth!

LOL!  That famous line loses a little in the filtered translation, doesn't it?   ;D
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding? UPDATE
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 07, 2013, 08:38:58 PM
To provide a bit of background--yes, there is a history of the parents putting C before K when they were growing up.  This toxic behavior on the parents part is not entirely new, so K had never entirely planned on having her parents play a large (or any) part in her wedding.  C had been quite the brat when she was younger, but outgrew it and has grown much closer to K while realizing just how awful her parents had been (it's easy to miss when it's not directed at you).

C assured K that she shouldn't move her date out, as she put it "I didn't plan my wedding date around your life, I can't ask you to do the same".  If she can make it, she'll be there, if not she asked that K just save her a piece of wedding cake.

The parents, however, have still been difficult.  K received an email from them stating that if she still insisted on going through with this "wedding" (quotation marks from them), to not expect them to be excited about it, to help out in any way, or even attend. 

Now, once upon a time, K would have caved in to this and done exactly what they wanted her to, regardless of what she truly wanted.  Luckily, in the past decade she's developed a considerably more significant spine.  Her response?

"Well, that's unfortunate but ultimately up to you.  I will still extend you an invitation in the event you change your mind, as we are not changing our plans.  That said, if you only want to spend the whole day complaining about how ridiculous the whole event is while making cracks about how lucky I was to find someone in my "old age", then it would be in the best interest of all involved if you stay home because you will be asked to leave if you cannot be polite to myself or DH.  We are in the process of setting up a live stream that will allow C to watch the wedding online if she cannot be there and I will send you the link as well."

C is pretty proud of her big sis for standing up for herself.  She's also seriously reconsidering whether or not she wants her parents there at the hospital.

Those are two of the most disgusting parents I've heard about in my life.

Good for K for standing up for herself, and for C for backing her up.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding? UPDATE
Post by: KB on April 07, 2013, 11:21:49 PM
C is pretty proud of her big sis for standing up for herself.  She's also seriously reconsidering whether or not she wants her parents there at the hospital.

This would be the best thing ever - both sisters off doing what they want, sharing each others' day through the wonders of technology, and bitter, twisted parents who have made their own collective bed having to lie in it, not willing to go to one event and not wanted at the other.

*standing ovation*
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding? UPDATE
Post by: MariaE on April 07, 2013, 11:51:18 PM
C is pretty proud of her big sis for standing up for herself.  She's also seriously reconsidering whether or not she wants her parents there at the hospital.

This would be the best thing ever - both sisters off doing what they want, sharing each others' day through the wonders of technology, and bitter, twisted parents who have made their own collective bed having to lie in it, not willing to go to one event and not wanted at the other.

*standing ovation*

Agreed, and oh, I hope she does! They do not deserve to be there!
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: zyrs on April 08, 2013, 12:25:51 AM
Yaaay to both sisters!  I'm sure that was a shock to the parents to be forced to realize that both daughters have adopted a "Frankly Dear Mother, we don't give a dingdangity!" feeling about both the wedding and their presence at the new baby's birth!

LOL!  That famous line loses a little in the filtered translation, doesn't it?   ;D

Actually, I think it would be more fun to say in the translation - imagine mom standing there for a while as her brain tries to process 'dingdangity'.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding? UPDATE
Post by: sammycat on April 08, 2013, 01:27:56 AM
C is pretty proud of her big sis for standing up for herself.  She's also seriously reconsidering whether or not she wants her parents there at the hospital.

This would be the best thing ever - both sisters off doing what they want, sharing each others' day through the wonders of technology, and bitter, twisted parents who have made their own collective bed having to lie in it, not willing to go to one event and not wanted at the other.

*standing ovation*

I had the same thought. It'd serve them right if they missed out on both events simply because of their disgusting behaviour towards one of their children.  Actually, taking the baby issue out of the picture, if I was engaged sister, I'm not sure I'd even want my parents at my wedding in the first place.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding? UPDATE
Post by: Iris on April 08, 2013, 04:07:06 AM
To provide a bit of background--yes, there is a history of the parents putting C before K when they were growing up.  This toxic behavior on the parents part is not entirely new, so K had never entirely planned on having her parents play a large (or any) part in her wedding.  C had been quite the brat when she was younger, but outgrew it and has grown much closer to K while realizing just how awful her parents had been (it's easy to miss when it's not directed at you).

C assured K that she shouldn't move her date out, as she put it "I didn't plan my wedding date around your life, I can't ask you to do the same".  If she can make it, she'll be there, if not she asked that K just save her a piece of wedding cake.

The parents, however, have still been difficult.  K received an email from them stating that if she still insisted on going through with this "wedding" (quotation marks from them), to not expect them to be excited about it, to help out in any way, or even attend. 

Now, once upon a time, K would have caved in to this and done exactly what they wanted her to, regardless of what she truly wanted.  Luckily, in the past decade she's developed a considerably more significant spine.  Her response?

"Well, that's unfortunate but ultimately up to you.  I will still extend you an invitation in the event you change your mind, as we are not changing our plans.  That said, if you only want to spend the whole day complaining about how ridiculous the whole event is while making cracks about how lucky I was to find someone in my "old age", then it would be in the best interest of all involved if you stay home because you will be asked to leave if you cannot be polite to myself or DH.  We are in the process of setting up a live stream that will allow C to watch the wedding online if she cannot be there and I will send you the link as well."

C is pretty proud of her big sis for standing up for herself.  She's also seriously reconsidering whether or not she wants her parents there at the hospital.

Those are two of the most disgusting parents I've heard about in my life.

Good for K for standing up for herself, and for C for backing her up.

Pod. It sounds like their losing their lifelong scapegoat/victim and they don't like it one little bit.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding? UPDATE
Post by: Venus193 on April 08, 2013, 06:02:21 AM

This would be the best thing ever - both sisters off doing what they want, sharing each others' day through the wonders of technology, and bitter, twisted parents who have made their own collective bed having to lie in it, not willing to go to one event and not wanted at the other.

*standing ovation*

Heehee, I had the same thought. It'd serve them right if they missed out on both events simply because of their disgusting behaviour towards one of their children.  Actually, taking the baby issue out of the picture, if I was engaged sister, I'm not sure I'd even want my parents at my wedding in the first place.

I completely agree.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: mstigerlily on April 08, 2013, 09:07:12 AM
I'm still stuck on the idea that the bride and groom might be out hundreds of dollars of a deposit because she'd "have" to move the wedding date. Are the dear parents planning on covering that money? Somehow I doubt it.

If Sis is in the hospital/just gave birth/super pregnant, there is this fabulous invention you can use. It's called a video camera. There are even professionals who will do it for you- videographers! Another great invention- skype! :shoves Snarky TL back in the box:
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Twik on April 08, 2013, 09:13:12 AM
At first, I had a bit of sympathy for the parents. After all, who wouldn't feel torn between seeing your daughter married or being there for the birth of your first grandchild? They may not have handled it well, but I thought it was just one of those lousy situations life sometimes throws at you. Even so, I figured the best solution would be to let nature take its course, and the birth actually might be well before or after the wedding date.

But, "wedding," in quotation marks? Not a real wedding? That's a direct slap in the face.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: TurtleDove on April 08, 2013, 09:20:41 AM
With the update, this is more about the behavior of the parents toward K in general.  In a family where all parties get along, the parents asking K to postpone the wedding would make some sense, assuming K would want her family to be able to do everything happily.  Under these particular circumstances, it is a symptom of a much bigger problem.  Good on K and C for not putting up with it anymore.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Venus193 on April 08, 2013, 09:22:13 AM
At first, I had a bit of sympathy for the parents. After all, who wouldn't feel torn between seeing your daughter married or being there for the birth of your first grandchild? They may not have handled it well, but I thought it was just one of those lousy situations life sometimes throws at you. Even so, I figured the best solution would be to let nature take its course, and the birth actually might be well before or after the wedding date.

But, "wedding," in quotation marks? Not a real wedding? That's a direct slap in the face.

It certainly is.

I also think that since the baby will be there for a long time to come it is ridiculous for the parents to be willing to miss their other daughter's wedding for a birth event whose exact time cannot be determined.  Unless the mother is going to be in the delivery room with the other daughter (which was not specified) there should be no question that she belongs at her other daughter's wedding.

However, in view of the update, I endorse the engaged daughter's reaction.  I might even go so far as to tell them I would rather they not attend full stop.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Lynn2000 on April 08, 2013, 09:56:01 AM
Great update for the sisters! I feel for them, having parents like that, but I'm glad they can now see past it and make their own decisions, including the decision to be happy for each other even though the parents are trying to cause drama between them.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: dlws92 on April 08, 2013, 10:18:00 AM
It's not uncommon for the bully in a dysfunctional relationship to "up the ante" when the victim starts to set boundaries.  That's what it sounds like here.  K isn't responding the way she used to...so they are going to go out of their way to try and put her back in her place.   K is very blessed to have a supportive sister...and a great husband-to-be :) And good for her in setting this boundary and sticking to plans!
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: LifeOnPluto on April 09, 2013, 03:27:28 AM
At first, I had a bit of sympathy for the parents. After all, who wouldn't feel torn between seeing your daughter married or being there for the birth of your first grandchild? They may not have handled it well, but I thought it was just one of those lousy situations life sometimes throws at you. Even so, I figured the best solution would be to let nature take its course, and the birth actually might be well before or after the wedding date.

But, "wedding," in quotation marks? Not a real wedding? That's a direct slap in the face.

Apparently it's only a real wedding if you get married before the age of 30.  ::)

Given the update, I definitely don't think K should change her wedding date.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Winterlight on April 09, 2013, 08:11:11 AM
I think K should have the wedding she wants and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Calistoga on April 09, 2013, 08:52:12 AM
It sounds to me like the two most important people that the parents should be worried about- their daughters- are happy for each other and have things worked out. So even if mom and dad decide to be utter clods the rest of the way, K and C won't be too badly affected.

Title: Re: Rude to not postpone wedding?
Post by: Sophia on April 09, 2013, 09:27:34 AM
I don't know K.  I am just an internet bystander like everyone else.  But, I imagine that if the parents had a normal healthy relationship with K, K and her FH would have considered it. 

But, to put wedding in quotes?   ?!!@$@#?   I wouldn't even invite anyone who did believe that my wedding was real.  Even in the original post the parents were dismissive of the wedding. 

This is what I would say to the parents if I were K.  "If my wedding is insignificant and not even real, why do you even want to attend?"