Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 11:02:22 AM

Title: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 11:02:22 AM
We purchased a home in a very highly sought after school district.  We chose to spend more on a house than paying the tuition of a private school.  Due to the success between a prestigous Ivy league university and the local elementary school, there are not enough spots for all the district's kindergarten-aged students.  As a result, parents line up outside the school prior to registration day.  This past January, parents began lining up 4 days prior to registration. 

It is come to my attention that a "neighbor" will be sending her kid to this kindergarten.  However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district.  I know how to deal with this legally and through the school channels.  Should I also ask the neighbor to stop it?  I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who knows this information.  Ultimately, I don't care if she knows I reported her to the district.

Is it relevant that her kid's enrollment does not affect my child at the moment?  However, in 2 years when my child is ready for kindergarten, so will be her second child.  She cannot afford to live in the neighborhood either now or in the foreseeable future, unless she wins the lottery.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: NyaChan on April 05, 2013, 11:05:55 AM
Why do you need to contact her at all?  If someone is breaking a regulation and you feel you need to report it, for whatever reason, do it.  I don't think going to her as well does anything other than give you an "Aha! I caught you!" moment if you are planning on reporting her regardless of whether you tell her you know.  It'd be another thing if you wanted to give her an opportunity to withdraw voluntarily so that her future chances wouldn't be affected, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Lynn2000 on April 05, 2013, 11:10:51 AM
Why do you need to contact her at all?  If someone is breaking a regulation and you feel you need to report it, for whatever reason, do it.  I don't think going to her as well does anything other than give you an "Aha! I caught you!" moment if you are planning on reporting her regardless of whether you tell her you know.  It'd be another thing if you wanted to give her an opportunity to withdraw voluntarily so that her future chances wouldn't be affected, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

POD to this. If you're willing and able to pursue it through legal/official channels, go ahead and do that. I don't see a reason to also confront her personally about it, especially as you say you don't care if she knows who reported her. (My answer might be different if you were concerned about her reaction to you personally if she found out.)
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 11:11:16 AM
Why do you need to contact her at all?  If someone is breaking a regulation and you feel you need to report it, for whatever reason, do it.  I don't think going to her as well does anything other than give you an "Aha! I caught you!" moment if you are planning on reporting her regardless of whether you tell her you know.  It'd be another thing if you wanted to give her an opportunity to withdraw voluntarily so that her future chances wouldn't be affected, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Exactly - why do I need to contact her? (This is why I posed my question as "Should I *also* ask the neighbor to stop it?)  Is there some sort of etiquette rule or common courtesy that requires me to tell her in addition to pursuing the other avenues?  None come to mind but I could be wrong about this.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: pennylucy on April 05, 2013, 11:16:59 AM
She cannot afford to live in the neighborhood either now or in the foreseeable future, unless she wins the lottery.

Was that last bit necessary? Her financial background really has no relevance on the issue right now. It also sounds stuck up.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: NyaChan on April 05, 2013, 11:21:24 AM
Why do you need to contact her at all?  If someone is breaking a regulation and you feel you need to report it, for whatever reason, do it.  I don't think going to her as well does anything other than give you an "Aha! I caught you!" moment if you are planning on reporting her regardless of whether you tell her you know.  It'd be another thing if you wanted to give her an opportunity to withdraw voluntarily so that her future chances wouldn't be affected, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Exactly - why do I need to contact her? (This is why I posed my question as "Should I *also* ask the neighbor to stop it?)  Is there some sort of etiquette rule or common courtesy that requires me to tell her in addition to pursuing the other avenues?  None come to mind but I could be wrong about this.

My response was to indicate that I couldn't think of any possible reason why you should contact her, unless you were giving her an opportunity to fix the situation herself - which you had already stated that you did not intend to do.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Luci on April 05, 2013, 11:27:50 AM
You may not care that she knows you reported her, but later there may be repercussions for you or your child or your property.

I would not confront her at all, but in all honesty, I do think the district needs to be made aware of it so they can make a decision about it.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 11:30:33 AM
If you have a friendly relationship with someone, and know they are doing something wrong, and feel morally obligated to report them in order to stop them hurting someone (the example comes to mind of a cheating spouse with an std), I would think the  best thing to do is to warn the offender, "I know what you are doing, so do other people, and if you don't rectify this in x time, I will tell on you."

I would only think that applies if you have some kind of friendship ties to the offender.  If the offender is not someone you have been friends with, and you intend to report them regardless, I don't see any obligation to issue a warning.  And in this case, since many people know and the offender seems not to care, it likely woudn't do any good anyway.

I agree that the swipe about the offenders socioeconomic status was unneccessary, and makes this sound more like a snobbery thing, than about protecting the interests of the children in the district. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: reflection5 on April 05, 2013, 11:31:30 AM
Quote
She cannot afford to live in the neighborhood either now or in the foreseeable future, unless she wins the lottery.

I don't see how you would have any way of knowing this.  Sounds to me like there is more to this, and imo something other than school zoning prompted this comment and your obvious dislike and resentment of the woman.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 11:31:35 AM
She cannot afford to live in the neighborhood either now or in the foreseeable future, unless she wins the lottery.

Was that last bit necessary? Her financial background really has no relevance on the issue right now. It also sounds stuck up.

It was said to avoid any speculation in this thread discussion  that her finances may change in the future which would allow her to live in the area.  just like my situation may change in the future requiring me to move out.

edited-and i do know her finances will not support the high price of housing and increasing rental rates.   Prices keep increasing and her income has plateaued.   
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Lynn2000 on April 05, 2013, 11:33:03 AM
I agree, I think you have no obligation to contact her in this situation.

Again, if you wanted to give her the chance to fix it first; or you were concerned about her reaction to you and wanted to mitigate it or explain yourself somehow, that would be different.

I assume this isn't really someone you see/talk to a lot? I guess it might be a bit dodgy if, say, you saw her every morning and chatted pleasantly for several minutes, knowing all the while that you were reporting her for something, and she might find out you reported her, and you never mentioned that to her. Kind of like what EllenS said.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: sweetonsno on April 05, 2013, 11:35:03 AM
How did you find this out? If it's just a suspicion (hearsay or you made an inference), I'd leave it alone. I agree with NyaChan that trying to confront her will accomplish nothing good.

If you think a number of people know what she is doing, it makes little sense that none of them have reported it, especially in such an excellent (and full) school district. Are you absolutely sure about this?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: ClaireC79 on April 05, 2013, 11:37:01 AM
If her older child gets a place at the school and then she 'moves' out of district, will her younger child get a place (possibly above an 'in district' child) due to the siblings rule?  Some schools have a sibling at the school as a higher reason to get a place than where they live
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 11:40:41 AM

edited-and i do know her finances will not support the high price of housing and increasing rental rates.   Prices keep increasing and her income has plateaued.

See, this makes it sound like you know this person better than it first appeared.  Obviously this is not a stranger. 

In any event, if you are going to make some kind of formal complaint to the authorities for illegal or fraudulent behavior (and a woman in the Northeast recently got a jail sentence and lost her kids over this), it is incumbent on you to NOT pretend you are her friend or use a false face of friendship to get information on her.  If you are reporting someone as a criminal, then they deserve the cut direct.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 11:45:36 AM
She cannot afford to live in the neighborhood either now or in the foreseeable future, unless she wins the lottery.

Was that last bit necessary? Her financial background really has no relevance on the issue right now. It also sounds stuck up.

It was said to avoid any speculation in this thread discussion  that her finances may change in the future which would allow her to live in the area.  just like my situation may change in the future requiring me to move out.

edited-and i do know her finances will not support the high price of housing and increasing rental rates.   Prices keep increasing and her income has plateaued.

How do you know so much about this person's finances, or even that she is using this mail=drop scheme? Is this a personal relationshp that you have with her, or a professional one? (Do you have access to her finances through your job?)
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: BeagleMommy on April 05, 2013, 11:48:06 AM
I don't think you owe her a warning.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 11:48:40 AM
How did you find this out? If it's just a suspicion (hearsay or you made an inference), I'd leave it alone. I agree with NyaChan that trying to confront her will accomplish nothing good.

If you think a number of people know what she is doing, it makes little sense that none of them have reported it, especially in such an excellent (and full) school district. Are you absolutely sure about this?

yes I know for sure.  A letter addressed to her was delivered to my house. When I went to drop it off, her "mail drop" screwed up the cover story.  I confirmed my suspicions with real estate records.  Absent a bona fide lease and she's paying current rental rates, she does not live in the district.   She's a single mother with 2 kids working an hourly job.  I understand she wants the best for her kids but...doing so fraudulently is a problem for me.

   When discussing the school enrollment situation with other neighbors who have kids, I learned that there are several others using "mail drops" and this is one reason (allegedly) why there are not enough spots for the kids who actually do live in the district to attend this particular elementary school. 

   
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 11:57:11 AM
You have really put a lot of effort into tracking this woman. 

Here is the case I was thinking of.  The woman in this case will be in jail for 5 years for the larceny of educational services charge, and has other sentences related to other charges.
http://www.norwalkcitizenonline.com/news/article/5-years-in-prison-for-Tanya-McDowell-3350071.php

I understand your concern about your child's place in the school, and of course it is not legal or right for her to do this, but If this is a single mom, I would think twice before I would risk being personally responsible for sending those kids to foster care.  Especially in a situation where my kids have equally good options and her kids do not.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 12:01:56 PM
You have really put a lot of effort into tracking this woman. 

Here is the case I was thinking of.  The woman in this case will be in jail for 5 years for the larceny of educational services charge, and has other sentences related to other charges.
http://www.norwalkcitizenonline.com/news/article/5-years-in-prison-for-Tanya-McDowell-3350071.php

I understand your concern about your child's place in the school, and of course it is not legal or right for her to do this, but If this is a single mom, I would think twice before I would risk being personally responsible for sending those kids to foster care.  Especially in a situation where my kids have equally good options and her kids do not.

not really. took less than 5 minutes.  which is another reason i have a hard time believing the school district when it says it is difficult to determine or investigate such complaints.  but that's another issue i'm not going to get into.  the bottom line:  the whole situation is a mess for everyone involved.  (fyi - i'm not picking on the poor woman. there's a city counsel or state senator allegedly doing the exact same thing). 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Amara on April 05, 2013, 12:04:09 PM
I see her reasons for not living in the district as irrelevant. The only fact that matters is that she doesn't live in the district and her child is not entitled to attend the school. That should be pointed out to the authorities because it directly impacts every family who does live there. And that's all.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: QueenfaninCA on April 05, 2013, 12:04:26 PM
I would ask the school district to do what the sought-after school districts in my area do: Require a utility  or property tax bill as proof of residence.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on April 05, 2013, 12:05:10 PM
I see her reasons for not living in the district as irrelevant. The only fact that matters is that she doesn't live in the district and her child is not entitled to attend the school. That should be pointed out to the authorities because it directly impacts every family who does live there. And that's all.

POD.  If anyone is told, it should be the school district.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 12:05:53 PM
I don't understand how registration works in your school district.  We are in a very economically diverse neigborhood, mostly "pink collar" and lower-to-middle-middle class, and you have to show up at the school with an original deed or lease in your name.  Proof of a mailing address won't cut it.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 12:07:02 PM
How did you find this out? If it's just a suspicion (hearsay or you made an inference), I'd leave it alone. I agree with NyaChan that trying to confront her will accomplish nothing good.

If you think a number of people know what she is doing, it makes little sense that none of them have reported it, especially in such an excellent (and full) school district. Are you absolutely sure about this?

yes I know for sure.  A letter addressed to her was delivered to my house. When I went to drop it off, her "mail drop" screwed up the cover story.  I confirmed my suspicions with real estate records.  Absent a bona fide lease and she's paying current rental rates, she does not live in the district.   She's a single mother with 2 kids working an hourly job.  I understand she wants the best for her kids but...doing so fraudulently is a problem for me.

   When discussing the school enrollment situation with other neighbors who have kids, I learned that there are several others using "mail drops" and this is one reason (allegedly) why there are not enough spots for the kids who actually do live in the district to attend this particular elementary school. 

   

So you don't know her personally at all? Why would you want to confront a total stranger over something like this? It could escalate and become violent. Just follow the proper channels and then leave it alone.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 12:07:39 PM
I would ask the school district to do what the sought-after school districts in my area do: Require a utility  or property tax bill as proof of residence.

There is a such requirement, however, the requirement documentation is too easy to establish residency.  All the woman needs is to have two utility services in her name.  Doesn't mean she pays those bills or even lives at the address.   

edited - I forgot to add sorry -- I am sort of acquaintances with her.  I see her maybe 3 times a year in the neighborhood and once she was with another neighbor at another neighborhood's July 4th street party.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 05, 2013, 12:08:04 PM
You have really put a lot of effort into tracking this woman. 

Here is the case I was thinking of.  The woman in this case will be in jail for 5 years for the larceny of educational services charge, and has other sentences related to other charges.
http://www.norwalkcitizenonline.com/news/article/5-years-in-prison-for-Tanya-McDowell-3350071.php

I understand your concern about your child's place in the school, and of course it is not legal or right for her to do this, but If this is a single mom, I would think twice before I would risk being personally responsible for sending those kids to foster care.  Especially in a situation where my kids have equally good options and her kids do not.

According to the article, though, that woman was selling drugs on the side.  They wrapped the two cases together, so it's hard to say what the punishment just for the school thing would be, but it might just be the $6000 some that they say she now owes the school district.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Tabby Uprising on April 05, 2013, 12:08:55 PM
You have really put a lot of effort into tracking this woman. 

Here is the case I was thinking of.  The woman in this case will be in jail for 5 years for the larceny of educational services charge, and has other sentences related to other charges.
http://www.norwalkcitizenonline.com/news/article/5-years-in-prison-for-Tanya-McDowell-3350071.php

I understand your concern about your child's place in the school, and of course it is not legal or right for her to do this, but If this is a single mom, I would think twice before I would risk being personally responsible for sending those kids to foster care.  Especially in a situation where my kids have equally good options and her kids do not.

What are those other options though? If that's the only elementary school, where does she send her kids if they can't get a spot?  DH and I did something similar by spending extra $$ on a house in an exceptional school district.  If people (whatever their reasons) cheated us out of a spot in the district, we couldn't afford a pricey private school any more than anyone else. 

 Look, I feel for the woman, but she's the one putting herself in this position by doing something wrong.  Fountains isn't the bad guy here for reporting wrongdoing. 

And unless she's selling drugs right outside of an elementary school like the woman in the article you linked to, I don't think her kids will end up in foster care.  Being a drug dealer really changes the scenario!
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 12:16:32 PM
I only mention it because the article I read - and I read several at the time, and just now, so I may have posted the wrong link - said that the 5 years was specifically for the larceny, and the other sentences were for the other charges.

All I said was that I would think twice.  And if OP not only knows where this woman lives, what her job is how much she makes, and that she is a single mom with 2 kids - she did not find that out from an Internet search of "real estate records".

The offender is doing something wrong and illegal.  I am just not sure I would personally be the one to pursue it, that's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: wolfie on April 05, 2013, 12:19:30 PM
If the woman goes to jail over this then it is the woman's fault because she broke the law in the first place. It is not the fault of someone who speaks up against wrongdoing that the perpetrator was punished.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: WillyNilly on April 05, 2013, 12:19:45 PM
You have no obligations, etiquette wise, to warn her or speak to her first. Your obligations are to your children and to your community. Report her via the regular channels and rest assured.

In the meantime if I were you, I would start writing to local politicians about the system in general. You are paying taxes for your neighborhood and for the local schools. People who are not paying those local taxes but who are using the schools are stealing - they are taking services they are not paying for. There are all sorts of ways to fix the system (spreading out taxes more so all the schools are better, being more strict about proof of residence, looking at what the taxes in other areas are being used for that their schools are so bad, etc) and you are free to suggest any you think are best. But be a squeaky wheel and point out "hey there is a problem!"
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 12:26:49 PM
She cannot afford to live in the neighborhood either now or in the foreseeable future, unless she wins the lottery.

Was that last bit necessary? Her financial background really has no relevance on the issue right now. It also sounds stuck up.

It was said to avoid any speculation in this thread discussion  that her finances may change in the future which would allow her to live in the area.  just like my situation may change in the future requiring me to move out.

edited-and i do know her finances will not support the high price of housing and increasing rental rates.   Prices keep increasing and her income has plateaued.

How do you know so much about this person's finances, or even that she is using this mail=drop scheme? Is this a personal relationshp that you have with her, or a professional one? (Do you have access to her finances through your job?)

She is an acquaintance I initially met through my next door neighbor.  We discussed kids, jobs, the controversy about the new restaurant nearby, etc. (the whole "what do you do" thing when you first meet people).  And my next door neighbor is our street captain and the neighborhood gossip so I've learned a lot of things I didn't necessary want to know.  Including the potential drug dealer who's moved into the apartment building around the corner and the new developer who just purchased another nearby apartment building and who will start renovations next month and...and..and...   

My husband also attended said University and a lot of his friends have purchased homes in the same district or in the next district.  So I hear about their neighborhood gossip as well. 

Then there's my neighborhood blog which includes a public forum, where the hot topic is the school enrollment issue. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: nrb80 on April 05, 2013, 12:43:48 PM
Honestly, you don't know what you don't know, and I do think it's polite to ignore gossip - and all you know is gossip and conjecture.

I live in arguably the best public school district in the US.  Its not terribly easy to enroll a child in public school - significant proof of residence is required.  The proof you've described - utility bills in her name, isn't actually that easy to fake - plus if the evidence is gossip from a very slight acquaintance versus written documentation, who would the district believe?

You also don't know if she is homeless, and might have a right to attend that school.  You know she's an hourly worker, but you don't know if she also inherited property there.  You don't know if she uses the "maildrop" because of a domestic violence situation and lives or her children live in te district.

If you do "report" her, I doubt it would benefit your child, and likely it will reflect poorly on you and your children.  Its not unlikely that you will be judged to be a gossip - which may lead to social sanctions that could have a severe impact on your children's education.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 01:01:31 PM
Respectfully, not all of my information is based on gossip.  Some of it came from the woman herself.  And now I'll bow out.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: WillyNilly on April 05, 2013, 01:10:00 PM
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: *inviteseller on April 05, 2013, 01:12:10 PM
We have that problem in my district.  We border a district with a sub par schools and ours is constantly in the top 5 of the state and has received national recognition, so there are people who scam a relative or friend into using their address and drop the kids off at the school bus stops in the morning.  While it is a mostly upper class district, there are rentals but they are more than the district with the interlopers .  To me, it is plain and simple theft.  I moved here specifically for the schools and it galls me when my tax money is paying for kids who do not live here.  Live here if you want out services, otherwise figure out how to make your district better.  I know I had to show a current ID with my address and picture, plus tax bills/deeds/leases as required.  They don't accept utility bills anymore, and I think it is because anyone can get a utility turned on in their name anywhere.  I have reported 2 families that I knew for sure were not living in our district.  After an investigation, their scheme fell apart, the kids were kicked out of school and the district pursued a judgement against the parents and the people who helped them out by providing an address were charged with fraud too.  nrb80, if it were your child who might not get into the school because someone was scamming their kids in, how would you feel?  I know I would spit nails if I lost on a lottery after spending the money to buy a house in a high end neighborhood and paid taxes, to someone who wanted the benefit of an education without actually living there.  I do feel for people who are of lower economic situations who do not have the best schools in their neighborhoods (I am by no means rich myself), but either work to make your district better or scrimp and save to find a place in a better district like I have.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: jaxsue on April 05, 2013, 01:30:33 PM
I see her reasons for not living in the district as irrelevant. The only fact that matters is that she doesn't live in the district and her child is not entitled to attend the school. That should be pointed out to the authorities because it directly impacts every family who does live there. And that's all.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 01:51:05 PM
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.

I don't agree. You might have a general idea of the person's current salary, but you have no idea what their total income is. They could have investment income, or an inheritance, or a structured settlement, or be receiving alimony. Just knowing someone's job does not mean you know their entire financial situation.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: kareng57 on April 05, 2013, 02:11:35 PM
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.

I don't agree. You might have a general idea of the person's current salary, but you have no idea what their total income is. They could have investment income, or an inheritance, or a structured settlement, or be receiving alimony. Just knowing someone's job does not mean you know their entire financial situation.


POD.  I'll never understand why some people figure that they know all the financial details of people who are near-strangers.

For all we know, the woman could be independently wealthy but working retail simply to get out of the house and meet people.  OP's situation sounds like nothing more than gossip.  If there's a concern about ineligible families registering at the school, she can take it up with local authorities but pointing fingers at a particular parent seems to be tattle-taleing.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: FauxFoodist on April 05, 2013, 02:14:07 PM
How did you find this out? If it's just a suspicion (hearsay or you made an inference), I'd leave it alone. I agree with NyaChan that trying to confront her will accomplish nothing good.

If you think a number of people know what she is doing, it makes little sense that none of them have reported it, especially in such an excellent (and full) school district. Are you absolutely sure about this?

yes I know for sure.  A letter addressed to her was delivered to my house. When I went to drop it off, her "mail drop" screwed up the cover story.  I confirmed my suspicions with real estate records.  Absent a bona fide lease and she's paying current rental rates, she does not live in the district.   She's a single mother with 2 kids working an hourly job.  I understand she wants the best for her kids but...doing so fraudulently is a problem for me.

   When discussing the school enrollment situation with other neighbors who have kids, I learned that there are several others using "mail drops" and this is one reason (allegedly) why there are not enough spots for the kids who actually do live in the district to attend this particular elementary school. 

   

I just want to point out that a job being hourly doesn't necessarily indicate it's a job that doesn't pay well (e.g. our staff pharmacists are all hourly, and they make six-figure incomes).

That aside, I wouldn't have a problem with reporting the neighbor and others to the school district if I were in your place (sacrificing to live in a better neighborhood in order to have access to the better schools).
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: WillyNilly on April 05, 2013, 02:17:39 PM
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.


I don't agree. You might have a general idea of the person's current salary, but you have no idea what their total income is. They could have investment income, or an inheritance, or a structured settlement, or be receiving alimony. Just knowing someone's job does not mean you know their entire financial situation.


I never said anyone would "know their entire financial situation" I said a person would have an "idea of the current situation".
And really the finances are only a small part of it anyway, and only an indirect part at that. The issue is primary residency and the kids going to school in the district.

As I mentioned, reporting this woman (regardless of whether she is a pauper or a millionaire) is merely, at most, going to spark an investigation as to her & her kid's legal, primary, residence. If her kids do not live in the district, her kids should not be going to the school.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Sluggyfan on April 05, 2013, 02:18:59 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: nrb80 on April 05, 2013, 02:26:36 PM
nrb80, if it were your child who might not get into the school because someone was scamming their kids in, how would you feel? 

Exactly the same.  I also provide free legal services and other volunteer hours to low income families in my incredibly wealthy county - including assisting with representations of children who are being bounced from schools due to accusations of false homelessness or similar. 

Regardless, how I would feel, or you would feel, or the OP would feel isn't really the point.  As to the OP's original question, I would not accuse a person of falsifying their residence based only on neighborhood gossip or what the person said to me socially.  If the person said "I really live in Connecticut, and I am never in New Jersey, and I know I have no right to send my kids to New Jersey schools, but I love this school so I am going to scam my way in" I would probably say something.  As to my point, I don't think it is polite or effective to repeat gossip and conjecture - and moreover, the school system has their own verification methods.   In our school system, accusations like this are usually either ignored - to some extent, if a person issues a false lease to an adult child and moves the utilities to the adult child's name and so on, there's nothing that can be done - or are now sent to a referral for assistance and services - to help families who are trying to keep their kids in their old school now that they are homeless or casually homed.

There are a couple of chronic complainers that apparently exist - and their complaints reflect badly on them, not on those they complain about.  Here, the issue is complaints about multi-generational families living in houses, and whether a child "really" lives at the house or is just visiting.

Which is a long way of saying that the social wheels are greased by kindness and dignity.  And it there is such an incredible issue in the OP's community then the way of dealing with it is through the school board and/or other appropriate citizen-facing body - advocating for different verification procedures, etc, rather than repeating gossip and conjecture about one family.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 02:28:26 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.

That's not what I said at all. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Dorrie78 on April 05, 2013, 02:31:26 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: nrb80 on April 05, 2013, 02:32:43 PM
As I mentioned, reporting this woman (regardless of whether she is a pauper or a millionaire) is merely, at most, going to spark an investigation as to her & her kid's legal, primary, residence. If her kids do not live in the district, her kids should not be going to the school.

In most states, it's not quite that simple.  There are a variety of situations that may lawfully place a child in a school outside the district or zone in which they are living.  In my opinion, that's between the State, the school, and the family, and any family who attends a school, even if they live elsewhere, should be treated with the same dignity and grace as any other.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: WillyNilly on April 05, 2013, 02:39:23 PM
As I mentioned, reporting this woman (regardless of whether she is a pauper or a millionaire) is merely, at most, going to spark an investigation as to her & her kid's legal, primary, residence. If her kids do not live in the district, her kids should not be going to the school.

In most states, it's not quite that simple.  There are a variety of situations that may lawfully place a child in a school outside the district or zone in which they are living.  In my opinion, that's between the State, the school, and the family, and any family who attends a school, even if they live elsewhere, should be treated with the same dignity and grace as any other.

Well an investigation via the appropriate channels will discover that, won't they?
The point is, the OP reporting the issue isn't going to cause any immediate reaction, its going to at most cause someone looking into the situation. In some cases, the issue being reported, it might even be ignored. But reporting the issue isn't going to = immediate expulsion of the kids and immediate legal action against the mother. Reporting the issue will bring it to the attention of the powers that be, and they can handle it as they see fit, and they might find the kids are attending school legally just as viably as they might find the opposite. Either way, by reporting the situation, it will be handled by the appropriate persons or legal entity, which takes it out of the gossip mill into the correct investigative forum.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: nuit93 on April 05, 2013, 02:45:37 PM
When someone tells you they are say, a cashier at Target, or a public employee like a teacher or a cop, its really not so difficult to form a truthful idea of what their income is - its pretty much public info. OP says the woman mentioned her job. Sure maybe OP doesn't know what the future holds for this woman, but its not a stretch or gossip to say she has a good idea of the current situation.

Reporting the woman won't result in immediate expulsion of the child from school or imprisonment of the mom. Reporting her would at most do one thing: start an investigation. That's it. The results of the investigation might result in the kid getting kicked out of school or repercussions for the mom, but they would be due to the mom's actions, not the person who reported her.

I don't agree. You might have a general idea of the person's current salary, but you have no idea what their total income is. They could have investment income, or an inheritance, or a structured settlement, or be receiving alimony. Just knowing someone's job does not mean you know their entire financial situation.

This is what I was about to say--unless you know all her financial records, it's impossible to know what her actual money situation looks like.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Mikayla on April 05, 2013, 02:47:14 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.

I think this is over the top and unfair.  It's also a borderline rant.  The issue involved here has nothing to do with your second paragraph.

I may be in the minority, but the OP has stated that this is based on more than gossip.  At some point, I think it's fair to accept the statement at face value, and answer the etiquette question.  And my take on that is no, you don't give prior warning.

ETA:  I agree with Willy Nilly.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Redneck Gravy on April 05, 2013, 02:55:08 PM
We purchased a home in a very highly sought after school district.  We chose to spend more on a house than paying the tuition of a private school.  Due to the success between a prestigous Ivy league university and the local elementary school, there are not enough spots for all the district's kindergarten-aged students.  As a result, parents line up outside the school prior to registration day.  This past January, parents began lining up 4 days prior to registration. 


Clearly, there are not enough spots in the district for their own children, much less for children brought in from OUTSIDE their district. 

And unless you know how all the funding goes for school districts from state to state, city to city, you can't possibly imagine all that goes into getting your kid into a good school.  I agree public education is a nightmare but until we get someone involved with a REAL plan that everyone can agree on; we are stuck with the mediocre education available in some districts.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: ladyknight1 on April 05, 2013, 02:56:13 PM
We have that problem in my district.  We border a district with a sub par schools and ours is constantly in the top 5 of the state and has received national recognition, so there are people who scam a relative or friend into using their address and drop the kids off at the school bus stops in the morning.  While it is a mostly upper class district, there are rentals but they are more than the district with the interlopers .  To me, it is plain and simple theft.  I moved here specifically for the schools and it galls me when my tax money is paying for kids who do not live here.  Live here if you want out services, otherwise figure out how to make your district better.  I know I had to show a current ID with my address and picture, plus tax bills/deeds/leases as required.  They don't accept utility bills anymore, and I think it is because anyone can get a utility turned on in their name anywhere.  I have reported 2 families that I knew for sure were not living in our district.  After an investigation, their scheme fell apart, the kids were kicked out of school and the district pursued a judgement against the parents and the people who helped them out by providing an address were charged with fraud too.  nrb80, if it were your child who might not get into the school because someone was scamming their kids in, how would you feel?  I know I would spit nails if I lost on a lottery after spending the money to buy a house in a high end neighborhood and paid taxes, to someone who wanted the benefit of an education without actually living there.  I do feel for people who are of lower economic situations who do not have the best schools in their neighborhoods (I am by no means rich myself), but either work to make your district better or scrimp and save to find a place in a better district like I have.

When we moved, we specifically chose our rental because of the school zone. We are not in the best area, but the schools are good. We have people drive from across the highway (another zone) to bring their children to our complex to catch the bus.

Proof here is a lease or mortgage paperwork, plus a DL showing that address. I see people with out of state license plates though, dropping off their children at DS' high school.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: TurtleDove on April 05, 2013, 02:57:08 PM
I think the OP should report the situation and allow the district to handle it.  No need to give the woman a heads up or even to follow up after that.  If the district is fine with the situation, the OP should be too.  If the district is not okay with it, then I am certain the district will do something about it.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Tabby Uprising on April 05, 2013, 02:57:41 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.

If you're outraged by the system, the right thing to do is actively lobby for its overhaul with specific recommendations for how the new system will be structured, how to implement it, how to handle the logistics and of course, how it will be paid for.  Fraudulently claiming a residence to get your child in the school is the wrong way to do things.  What if everyone did that?  How would that be fair?  How could schools accommodate the influx of students? The overcrowding?  Public schools do have rules about who is eligible to attend, despite the moniker of "public".  They also cost money: structure, teachers, equipment, insurance, etc.  People pay for that!  That money has to come from somewhere, like school taxes. 

Look, Fountainsoflettuce did not create this system.  It's not her fault.  She didn't dare create this scenario.  She wants to report someone who could be abusing the system.  I don't know of any other situations here on ehell where a suspected abuse of a system is shrugged off and people are shamed for even entertaining the notion of reporting it. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: WillyNilly on April 05, 2013, 03:03:52 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.

If you don't like the system, there are ways to work to change it. Proper channels.
Breaking the rules just because you* find them unjust is not the solution. Neither is gossip.

The OP is asking about her social obligations while following the proper channels - she wants to take herself out of the gossip ring and put the issue into the hands of those deemed in charge of the situation. That is the absolute right way to solve things. She should not be attacked for it.

If you have a problem with how things are run in your county, city, state or country, I absolutely urge you to join with your neighbors, speak up, write to politicians, make yourself heard and propose better ideas and methods. I know in my community, my local Civic Association has to beg people to get involved, even though we fight hard for the betterment of our schools. We'd be thrilled to have more people, passionate people, get involved!


* general "you"
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: doodlemor on April 05, 2013, 03:10:03 PM
.......there are not enough spots for all the district's kindergarten-aged students.  As a result, parents line up outside the school prior to registration day.  This past January, parents began lining up 4 days prior to registration. 

As a retired teacher, I'm rather surprised by this statement.  In my neck of the woods a public school has to take everyone. 

Some years the enrollment is greater than others.  My school  had to expand grade levels, and also condense them  according to the number of students.  At various times we had portable classrooms outside our main building to accommodate everyone, and for a few years our district had to rent a church hall for several classes.

If there is a great disparity between several elementary schools in the district, and the **losers** in the registration line  just have to go to another school, then the district should address this so that the schools are more equal.

As far as the original etiquette question goes, I don't think that OP should warn this woman if she decides to report her.  She shouldn't set herself or her family up for retaliation.  Not necessarily that the other woman would do something to her, but why take the chance?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: kareng57 on April 05, 2013, 03:12:32 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.


It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: gramma dishes on April 05, 2013, 03:13:22 PM
It doesn't make any difference whether or not the other mother can afford to live in the better school district.  Right now at least she does NOT live in it.  That's the only thing that matters here.  It wouldn't matter if she were a multimillionaire.

If her family doesn't live in the district, her children should not be going to that school.  Period.  I think the OP should report it to the powers that be and then let it go.  The district will discover the truth and they'll either do something about it or not.  The OP will have done the right thing.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Tabby Uprising on April 05, 2013, 03:15:32 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.


It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.

Wait, what kinds of people?  I read it as, she can't afford to live in the district therefore she does not live in the district and therefore her child is not eligible to go to the school. 

There are a lot of neighborhoods and school districts I can't afford to reside in.  What kind of person does that make me?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Docslady21 on April 05, 2013, 03:19:06 PM
The OP already clarified in another post that the ONLY reason she brought up income was so that people here could not nitpick that maybe the woman owned extra property, had plans to move there in a few months, etc. Now, people are nitpicking on the fact that she says she knows the person's financial info.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: kareng57 on April 05, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.


It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.

Wait, what kinds of people?  I read it as, she can't afford to live in the district therefore she does not live in the district and therefore her child is not eligible to go to the school. 

There are a lot of neighborhoods and school districts I can't afford to reside in.  What kind of person does that make me?


It's because she really has no way of knowing whether or not the neighbour can afford to live in the area, so why did she even bring it up here? It sounds pretty snobby to me. Conversely, maybe there are other parents who live in the area and are fairly low-income, but they inherited the house that they are in. 

I agree that the sole issue should be where the family is actually living, but OP brought up the income aspect, therefore other posters are free to comment on it.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 03:26:03 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.


It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.

Wait, what kinds of people?  I read it as, she can't afford to live in the district therefore she does not live in the district and therefore her child is not eligible to go to the school. 

There are a lot of neighborhoods and school districts I can't afford to reside in.  What kind of person does that make me?

A person who can't afford to live in that district, no more no less.  Doesn't make you a bad or good person.

As I said, I spoke to the woman when I first met her. We discussed *jobs*, *kids*, the neighborhood controversy about the new sub sandwich shop, etc.   In the course of our conversation I learned she is a city employee, divorced, no alimony, not paying child support.  We discussed the cost of daycare as I was looking into it at the time.  She told me where she went and how much.  Good, full time daycare downtown costs 4-figures a month.  She was happy kid #1 was ready for school b/c that lowered her daycare costs.    Draw your own conclusions.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 03:27:59 PM
The OP already clarified in another post that the ONLY reason she brought up income was so that people here could not nitpick that maybe the woman owned extra property, had plans to move there in a few months, etc. Now, people are nitpicking on the fact that she says she knows the person's financial info.

Thank you.  This is it exactly.   How many times do we see a thread devolve into baseless speculation?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Mikayla on April 05, 2013, 03:28:26 PM
Quote from: kareng57 link=topic=126515.msg2919344#msg2919344
It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.

Karen, you're in UK?  There may be some regional disconnects, but the issue here isn't about a certain "kind" of person.  It's someone not eligible to attend a certain school, because their parents don't live in the district from which the school accepts students, meaning the parents don't pay property taxes to support that school. 

I was lucky enough to attend a top ranked public high school, and we had these same issues. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 03:34:48 PM
But did she tell you where she "really" lives? 

If your gut tells you to report her, then that is what you should do. And let the authorities sort out the proof.

However, the situation is not nearly as cut and dried as you originally indicated.
1) Having your name on property or a lease outside the district does not prove that is your primary residence.  There is such a thing as subletting.
2) Not all leases are a matter of public record.  They are still valid.
3) Unless the letter you got was from the school, you have no idea if the "mail drop" address is the one she registered with the school.
4) Many people use offsite mailing addresses for various, personal reasons.
5) Neighborhood gossips do not always have the whole truth, nor do they always tell the whole truth.

What I (and it would appear, several other pp's) object to is your air of certainty of what you "just know" - but the only backup you can offer is gossip, suspicion and facts that do not in fact prove what you say they prove.  Yes, the situation looks shady.  But it does not reflect well on you to go around insisting that you know so much about this woman and her personal information - when you don't really know at all, you just assume.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 03:36:35 PM
I'm sorry, you're about to report a woman because you assume she can't afford the school and doesn't live in the district? Do you have any proof? Why on earth would you butt in at all?

And everything in your post reminds me of how desperately awful school finances are handled in the US - how dare a whole district be obviously better because the parents can afford higher taxes? How dare other children be given less of a chance at a public school because families are lower income? How on earth is that equal? ?

And how dare another mother, who snobbishly points out that a woman cannot (in her own mind) afford to live in a district, try to bar another child from what is seen as obviously a better education, again, at a public school? Infuriating.
Apparently the OP does have the proof that this woman doesn't live in the district. This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. I don't think there is anything wrong with the lawful residents of a district reporting unlawful activity, especially when it can impact the children of the lawful residents. It's too bad about school funding, but asking an individual to sacrifice her own children for the "common good" is a bit much, in my opinion. Work to change the system, but don't blame someone for making the decision to figure out a way to work in the system in the meantime.

OP - if you are still reading, there is no reason you need to let this "neighbor" know if you plan to report her.


It was the OP who made it "about" affording the school when she mentioned having a lot of knowledge about the other parent's financial circumstances.  That made it very much the tone of we-don't-want-those-kinds-of-people-attending-our-school.

Wait, what kinds of people?  I read it as, she can't afford to live in the district therefore she does not live in the district and therefore her child is not eligible to go to the school. 

There are a lot of neighborhoods and school districts I can't afford to reside in.  What kind of person does that make me?

A person who can't afford to live in that district, no more no less.  Doesn't make you a bad or good person.

As I said, I spoke to the woman when I first met her. We discussed *jobs*, *kids*, the neighborhood controversy about the new sub sandwich shop, etc.   In the course of our conversation I learned she is a city employee, divorced, no alimony, not paying child support.  We discussed the cost of daycare as I was looking into it at the time.  She told me where she went and how much.  Good, full time daycare downtown costs 4-figures a month.  She was happy kid #1 was ready for school b/c that lowered her daycare costs.    Draw your own conclusions.

Nothing of what you wrote would automatically lead me to believe that she would never be able to afford to live in your neighborhood. Maybe there's someone else is having financial difficulties is letting her houseshare with them as long as she pays utilities. If you have other suspicions than fine go ahead and report her but I think basing it solely on her salary and what you think she should be able to afford is a bit much.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
But did she tell you where she "really" lives? 

If your gut tells you to report her, then that is what you should do. And let the authorities sort out the proof.

However, the situation is not nearly as cut and dried as you originally indicated.
1) Having your name on property or a lease outside the district does not prove that is your primary residence.  There is such a thing as subletting.
2) Not all leases are a matter of public record.  They are still valid.
3) Unless the letter you got was from the school, you have no idea if the "mail drop" address is the one she registered with the school.
4) Many people use offsite mailing addresses for various, personal reasons.
5) Neighborhood gossips do not always have the whole truth, nor do they always tell the whole truth.

What I (and it would appear, several other pp's) object to is your air of certainty of what you "just know" - but the only backup you can offer is gossip, suspicion and facts that do not in fact prove what you say they prove.  Yes, the situation looks shady.  But it does not reflect well on you to go around insisting that you know so much about this woman and her personal information - when you don't really know at all, you just assume.

I am a landlord.  I am aware leases are rarely public records.  I had a conversation with the woman. I visited her alleged address and had an interesting conversation with the individual present at the address.  I looked at public records.  I heard the gossip but as stated previously, I also take it with a lot of salt.  And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.  There is nothing in any of my posts to suggest such an action.     And I would not do so.   
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: MOM21SON on April 05, 2013, 03:45:25 PM
I don't think you should say anything to her, but I would definately say something to the school.

It is lying, dishonest and sneaky and it could affect you.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: audrey1962 on April 05, 2013, 03:50:08 PM
As I said, I spoke to the woman when I first met her. We discussed *jobs*, *kids*, the neighborhood controversy about the new sub sandwich shop, etc.   In the course of our conversation I learned she is a city employee, divorced, no alimony, not paying child support.  We discussed the cost of daycare as I was looking into it at the time.  She told me where she went and how much.  Good, full time daycare downtown costs 4-figures a month.  She was happy kid #1 was ready for school b/c that lowered her daycare costs.    Draw your own conclusions.

The only conclusion I'm drawing is that she's a divorced working mother of two with one child in daycare and one ready to start school.

Quote
And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.

That's because you indicated in your OP that you might mention it to her:

Quote
Should I also ask the neighbor to stop it?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: lowspark on April 05, 2013, 03:54:22 PM
You have really put a lot of effort into tracking this woman. 

Here is the case I was thinking of.  The woman in this case will be in jail for 5 years for the larceny of educational services charge, and has other sentences related to other charges.
http://www.norwalkcitizenonline.com/news/article/5-years-in-prison-for-Tanya-McDowell-3350071.php

I understand your concern about your child's place in the school, and of course it is not legal or right for her to do this, but If this is a single mom, I would think twice before I would risk being personally responsible for sending those kids to foster care.  Especially in a situation where my kids have equally good options and her kids do not.

Regarding the bolded above, reporting suspected criminal activity does not make the one who reports it responsible for the consequences to the criminal for that activity. The person responsible for the consequences is the person who commits the crime. Deciding what the consequences will be is the responsibility of the authorities involved in the due process.

I agree with PPs who said to report your findings to the proper authorities, stating the facts as you know them, and let them proceed as they see fit. I also agree you owe nothing to the mother in the way of a heads up.

Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 03:57:54 PM
Lowspark, that was a statement about my feelings and whether I would want to get involved myself, not about a general principle of ethics.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: rose red on April 05, 2013, 04:08:44 PM
When I was in middle school, our family moved to a house and I was suppose to go to *new school* which was weird because I would have to take the bus, while *old school* was within walking distance.  I don't know what my parents did, but they they got a letter of permission for me to stay at my old school.

In High School, a girl lived in another town, but attended my school because she and her parents liked the environment better (ironically, it was a reversal of the OP's issue.  She didn't want to attend her rich town's public school). 

So the situation may not be black and white, and the lady may have permission to apply.  Go ahead and tell your suspicions to whoever is in charge.  If she is wrong to apply, the authorities will take care of it.  But if the child shows up in school after the report, she may rightfully be a student. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: saffron on April 05, 2013, 04:14:20 PM
Seems to me that the financials of the individual are completely irrelevant.

I think that the OP caught wind of a situation, realized that there could be a potential fallout which could directly affect her (her kids being bumped because of space shortage) and did some quick fact checking to see if s/he was overreacting. OP realized that no, there is probably some merit to making a formal complaint and plans to do so.

OP - I don't think you owe the lady any warning unless she is part of your circle of friends - as PPs stated - if you make the complaint the PTB will proceed as they see fit.

Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Docslady21 on April 05, 2013, 04:18:34 PM
As I said, I spoke to the woman when I first met her. We discussed *jobs*, *kids*, the neighborhood controversy about the new sub sandwich shop, etc.   In the course of our conversation I learned she is a city employee, divorced, no alimony, not paying child support.  We discussed the cost of daycare as I was looking into it at the time.  She told me where she went and how much.  Good, full time daycare downtown costs 4-figures a month.  She was happy kid #1 was ready for school b/c that lowered her daycare costs.    Draw your own conclusions.

The only conclusion I'm drawing is that she's a divorced working mother of two with one child in daycare and one ready to start school.

Quote
And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.


That's because you indicated in your OP that you might mention it to her:

Quote
Should I also ask the neighbor to stop it?

She asked if etiquette required that she talk to the woman first. How, from that, did you infer the OP would gloat or gossip about reporting her?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: EllenS on April 05, 2013, 04:25:54 PM
And you're assuming I would walk around gloating  or gossiping that I reported her.   

That was not my statement and was not my assumption.  You have misread me.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: kareng57 on April 05, 2013, 04:30:36 PM
When I was in middle school, our family moved to a house and I was suppose to go to *new school* which was weird because I would have to take the bus, while *old school* was within walking distance.  I don't know what my parents did, but they they got a letter of permission for me to stay at my old school.

In High School, a girl lived in another town, but attended my school because she and her parents liked the environment better (ironically, it was a reversal of the OP's issue.  She didn't want to attend her rich town's public school). 

So the situation may not be black and white, and the lady may have permission to apply.  Go ahead and tell your suspicions to whoever is in charge.  If she is wrong to apply, the authorities will take care of it.  But if the child shows up in school after the report, she may rightfully be a student.


Yes - in my area, parents who want their child to attend a school not in their catchment area can fill out a request-form.  If they have a good reason, such as not wanting to switch to another daycare centre, it's often granted.  And parents who move out of the catchment area while their kids are still in the school are usually allowed to have their kids remain there.

So I think it could be prudent to bring it up as a general concern (i.e. needing a more solid proof-of-residence from everyone) rather than zeroeing in on a particular parent.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: MummySweet on April 05, 2013, 04:32:28 PM
If you strongly suspect that someone is misrepresenting their physical address to access services they are not entitled to, you should feel free to report your suspicions and allow the appropriate authorities to investigate.  It is the responsibility of those appropriate authorities to both set the rules/requirements for admission and to enforce them.

There is no reason to speak to the woman herself.       

I too live in a very sought after public school district.    The admission requirements are quite specific and stringent, although one can find ways to get around them.     For your perusal this is what our district requires:

FORMS NEEDED FOR REGISTRATION:
 
All required documents MUST be provided at the time of registration; NO EXCEPTIONS
State law requires that students be 5 on or before September 1st to enroll in kindergarten
 
 
1.  Parent/Guardian Picture ID
 
2.  Alabama Blue Immunization Card **We cannot accept anything other than the Alabama Blue Card
Cards are obtained through your doctor or public health department
  Students will not be enrolled into 6th grade without booster dose of Tdap that is now required for all 11 and 12 year olds
    3.  Copy of Student's Certified Birth Certificate (not a hospital copy)

4.  Social Security Card (can be a copy). If a Social Security Card is not available, the following items will be accepted:
Recent letter from Social Security Office verifying card number
Passport
Military ID
Current tax return (registering student listed as dependent)
Medicaid card with Social Security Number
 
5.  Custody papers (required if student lives with someone other than both parents listed on birth certificate)
 
*Please Note: For other custody issues or questions, please call or email xxxxxxxxxxx for clarification before arrival.
 
6.  Student withdrawal form from previous school
 
7.  Grade-level Verification
Middle and high school - transcript (unofficial accepted)
Elementary - last report card
 
8.  Proof of Residency (in parent/guardian's name) may include but not limited to one of the following:
 
Own:
Deed for the residence in use and current utility bill (gas, water or electric)
or
Current property tax receipt for the residence in use and current utility bill (gas, water or electric)
 
Rent:
Signed lease for the residence in use and current utility bill (gas, water or electric)
Must be signed by both parties or it will not be accepted
 
Contracts:
Those who have a contract or builder’s contract on a home are required to fill out the Assignment or Transfer Request form prior to registration
 
9.  Registration Forms for students enrolling for 2013-2014 school year - complete the following forms online, print, and bring with you to registration
 
Must have the following to register:
Parent Information Form - complete one parent form per family, copies will be made as needed
Student Registration Form - (K-12) complete one per child registering for school
Parent Employment Survey - complete one survey per family
National School Lunch Form (optional)
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Redneck Gravy on April 05, 2013, 04:58:49 PM
Here's what I see as the bottom line...

You believe that someone is "stealing" from your school district by enrolling their child that is not a resident in your district.

Yes, you should report your beliefs to the proper authority. 

Now, would you give any other "thief" a headsup?  Then don't.  And stay out of it after you make your beliefs known.


Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: *inviteseller on April 05, 2013, 05:01:22 PM
Our district is very strict and the only exception is if the family is moving out of the district no sooner than May 1, they may finish the year up.  No outside waivers are ever granted.  We are a big district that has just spent a boat load of money expanding our schools, so if you want Johnny to live with Aunt Martha because our district is better than yours, Aunt Martha has to go through the courts to get legal custody papers for the enrollment to go through (and actual event with names changed).  And the schools are ever watching for 'transfers' simply for sports participation.  And it is not a snobby attitude to not want kids in your schools if the kids don't live there.  I want to live in a few neighborhoods in my county, but unless I hit the lottery, it will never happen and I don't begrudge the people who do live there because they worked for their money to live at a means I cannot.  I guess I am a snob for not wanting the kids from the bordering district in our schools fraudulently simply because that district is known to be a lower socioeconomic area, not for the fact that I don't pay taxes for those kids to get the education in my district.  The woman talked to the OP and made enough comments to the OP for her to infer that she can't afford to live in that neighborhood.  It does not make the OP a snob, it is reality.
Fountains...you said she has said she works for the city.  Is it the city you live in, or are you a suburb?  Because where I live if you are a city employee, you must live in the city.  That is something to look at because either way she is lying to someone.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Redneck Gravy on April 05, 2013, 05:18:37 PM
I moved to a rural school district so my kids could attend school there.

I had to provide previous school records, my voter's registration card with the new address and a copy of my new property deed.   After calling several times to make sure of the requirements I was surprised when they also asked for a utility bill (but that's for another thread in life).   

This is a very popular school district, particularly for sports because it is a smaller district (3A if that helps anyone).  Almost everyone gets to play - a lot.  It is also a Recognized Academically Superior district.

I know for a fact a number of students attending there do not live in the district.  Their parents either pay the district a fee for letting them attend or they are cheating the system somehow.  I don't have the time to report every one of them, nor do I have the time or energy to spend proving they don't belong there.  Do I resent it - sure, it means my child is probably not getting the individualized attention she would with smaller classes and she would get to play her sports a little more.  Plus the taxes other parents outside of the district pay are going to their school and not to ours... I can't police everyone, it is the district's responsibility to make and follow their own policies and rules. 

If the enrollment was so high my own child might not get in - yes I would give them a list of violators and get involved until this problem was resolved.  Would I give the violators a headsup so they could come up with new paperwork (forged/phony or not) - heavens NO!



 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 05:19:34 PM
But did she tell you where she "really" lives? 

If your gut tells you to report her, then that is what you should do. And let the authorities sort out the proof.

However, the situation is not nearly as cut and dried as you originally indicated.
1) Having your name on property or a lease outside the district does not prove that is your primary residence.  There is such a thing as subletting.
2) Not all leases are a matter of public record.  They are still valid.
3) Unless the letter you got was from the school, you have no idea if the "mail drop" address is the one she registered with the school.
4) Many people use offsite mailing addresses for various, personal reasons.
5) Neighborhood gossips do not always have the whole truth, nor do they always tell the whole truth.

What I (and it would appear, several other pp's) object to is your air of certainty of what you "just know" - but the only backup you can offer is gossip, suspicion and facts that do not in fact prove what you say they prove.  Yes, the situation looks shady.  But it does not reflect well on you to go around insisting that you know so much about this woman and her personal information - when you don't really know at all, you just assume.

Except it is the convention on this site to believe OPs.  She has certain facts at her disposal and has come to a conclusion.  The "neighbor's " actions may very well cheat the OPs child out of a place at school.  The school the OP is paying to support,  She is asking our opinion based on that conclusion.  It is kinder to assume that she is right than to attack her.

If her conclusion is wrong the district will sort it out.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on April 05, 2013, 05:26:08 PM
fountainsoflettuce, I can understand why you might want to give the woman a head's up if she's going to be investigated.  Even if she's committing fraud, she's a sympathetic figure, and no one wants the kids to suffer.  A person providing her with a phony address could also get dragged into the legalities.

Since you know her mail drop address, you could send an anonymous letter to inform her there may be an investigation. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainof on April 05, 2013, 05:29:34 PM
I wouldn't tell her.  I would report it as if I had heard some information that she might not live in the area and you wanted to give the SD a heads up rather than reporting anything as fact.  Then I would leave it alone, I wouldn't get involved in a witch hunt but I would report it if I felt I had reason enough to believe it true.

I think it is odd a good school division in a wealthy SD doesn't have enough spots for kids in its area.  Don't they check around the area and project the amount of kids attending at various ages?  In my area, you have a legal right to attend the school in your own area (if you enroll before the deadline) and the SD has to accommodate your kid.   If the SD cannot afford all the kids that live there then should they not raise property taxes and expand the school?  I wouldn't stand for camping out.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 05:31:54 PM
I have repeatedly asserted that the OP should trust her gut and do what she believes is right, and trust the district to sort it out.

However, as several commenters have pointed out, the unnecessary and repeated insistence that the offender could not possibly live in the district because OP believes her to have too-low of an income - EVEN THOUGH IT IS IRRELEVANT to the child's qualification to attend the school - gives the impression of snobbery.

Living in the district is absolutely a qualification to attending the school.  If the lowest priced home in my district was $500k, and a parent told me she worked as a counter person at a fast food restaurant, it would be highly unlikely that they were really living in the district.  Possibly, if living with a relative or some other circumstance, but otherwise impossible.

Some communities are small enough and wealthy enough that no one with a low income could live there.  Pointing that out does not make the OP a snob.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: *inviteseller on April 05, 2013, 05:34:23 PM
Is this a charter school that is part of the district?  There are some districts around here that have them and it is cut throat to get in...parents have gone as far as to try to bribe school board members for their kids to get in!
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: citadelle on April 05, 2013, 05:35:18 PM
Which is a long way of saying that the social wheels are greased by kindness and dignity.  And it there is such an incredible issue in the OP's community then the way of dealing with it is through the school board and/or other appropriate citizen-facing body - advocating for different verification procedures, etc, rather than repeating gossip and conjecture about one family.

I agree with this. This particular family/situation is one thing, the apparent problem is actually the lack of strict requirement for proof of residence. I would focus my efforts on the larger problem, beginning with asking the superintendent or school board how they monitor residence and how they respond when a family is found to be falsifying address.

As nrb80 points out, McKinney-Vento law guarantees homeless students access to their previous district. Tis is something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: TurtleDove on April 05, 2013, 05:36:33 PM
I did not read anything "snobbish" about what the OP has posted.  Regardless, it has little to do with the etiquette of what she should do.  I think most of us agree that she should report the situation to the powers that be and do nothing more.  This has nothing to do with "those kind of people" unless by "those kind of people" you mean "people who lie about where they live to enjoy benefits not available to them."

And I know of very competitive public charter schools in my area that sound like the situation the OP is dealing with.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 06:27:16 PM
I have repeatedly asserted that the OP should trust her gut and do what she believes is right, and trust the district to sort it out.

However, as several commenters have pointed out, the unnecessary and repeated insistence that the offender could not possibly live in the district because OP believes her to have too-low of an income - EVEN THOUGH IT IS IRRELEVANT to the child's qualification to attend the school - gives the impression of snobbery.

Living in the district is absolutely a qualification to attending the school.  If the lowest priced home in my district was $500k, and a parent told me she worked as a counter person at a fast food restaurant, it would be highly unlikely that they were really living in the district.  Possibly, if living with a relative or some other circumstance, but otherwise impossible.

Some communities are small enough and wealthy enough that no one with a low income could live there.  Pointing that out does not make the OP a snob.

No one has argued that living in the district is not a qualification. What people are arguing is the assertion that "no one with a low income could live there." There are some low-income people that manage to live in Beverly Hills. This woman could be renting a bedroom in a house in the area for herself and her 2 kids. How she lives is really no one's business but hers.

The OP has been encouraged to support her if she is suspicious that the woman is not really living in the area. But doing based soley on the fact that she has determined she can't be because of her job is premature.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 06:56:51 PM
I have repeatedly asserted that the OP should trust her gut and do what she believes is right, and trust the district to sort it out.

However, as several commenters have pointed out, the unnecessary and repeated insistence that the offender could not possibly live in the district because OP believes her to have too-low of an income - EVEN THOUGH IT IS IRRELEVANT to the child's qualification to attend the school - gives the impression of snobbery.

Living in the district is absolutely a qualification to attending the school.  If the lowest priced home in my district was $500k, and a parent told me she worked as a counter person at a fast food restaurant, it would be highly unlikely that they were really living in the district.  Possibly, if living with a relative or some other circumstance, but otherwise impossible.

Some communities are small enough and wealthy enough that no one with a low income could live there.  Pointing that out does not make the OP a snob.

No one has argued that living in the district is not a qualification. What people are arguing is the assertion that "no one with a low income could live there." There are some low-income people that manage to live in Beverly Hills. This woman could be renting a bedroom in a house in the area for herself and her 2 kids. How she lives is really no one's business but hers.

The OP has been encouraged to support her if she is suspicious that the woman is not really living in the area. But doing based soley on the fact that she has determined she can't be because of her job is premature.

The OP is not judge, jury & executioner.  If she reports her the school district will have an established method of investigation.

In my high school district (Tie Magazine once called it the best in the country), 8th graders are enrolled directly at their elementary schools.  Public, parochial and private students all get a visit from the counsels to register.  Anyone else that wants to register must go to the township office (not the highschool).  They need absolute proof of residency, and proof of guardianship/parentage.  You can't just have your nephew live with you - you need to be his legal guardian. 

If someone claimed to be house sharing, the district would already have you flagged.  You would need to show your drivers license and file a legal affidavit under oath to verify your address.  Our truant officers follow suspicious students home to verify that they actually live there.  Every year there are at least a dozen fraudulent students.  I feel sorry for the kids, but our district spends almost $20k per high school student.  Its grand larceny.

Its absolutely illegal in my village to rent out rooms in your house.  If a neighborhood is zoned single family you cannot legally turn your home into a rooming house.  You cannot legally rent out your coach house in my village either.

Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Sharnita on April 05, 2013, 07:00:20 PM
I can understand OP's concern with the possible fraud going on but I am not sure that even reporting her disovery will trump the required evidence they have asked for and she has already provided.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 07:03:39 PM
I can understand OP's concern with the possible fraud going on but I am not sure that even reporting her disovery will trump the required evidence they have asked for and she has already provided.

At least the district will be on notice.  They may investigate further or require more documentation.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 07:07:29 PM
I have repeatedly asserted that the OP should trust her gut and do what she believes is right, and trust the district to sort it out.

However, as several commenters have pointed out, the unnecessary and repeated insistence that the offender could not possibly live in the district because OP believes her to have too-low of an income - EVEN THOUGH IT IS IRRELEVANT to the child's qualification to attend the school - gives the impression of snobbery.

Living in the district is absolutely a qualification to attending the school.  If the lowest priced home in my district was $500k, and a parent told me she worked as a counter person at a fast food restaurant, it would be highly unlikely that they were really living in the district.  Possibly, if living with a relative or some other circumstance, but otherwise impossible.

Some communities are small enough and wealthy enough that no one with a low income could live there.  Pointing that out does not make the OP a snob.

No one has argued that living in the district is not a qualification. What people are arguing is the assertion that "no one with a low income could live there." There are some low-income people that manage to live in Beverly Hills. This woman could be renting a bedroom in a house in the area for herself and her 2 kids. How she lives is really no one's business but hers.

The OP has been encouraged to support her if she is suspicious that the woman is not really living in the area. But doing based soley on the fact that she has determined she can't be because of her job is premature.

The OP is not judge, jury & executioner.  If she reports her the school district will have an established method of investigation.

In my high school district (Tie Magazine once called it the best in the country), 8th graders are enrolled directly at their elementary schools.  Public, parochial and private students all get a visit from the counsels to register.  Anyone else that wants to register must go to the township office (not the highschool).  They need absolute proof of residency, and proof of guardianship/parentage.  You can't just have your nephew live with you - you need to be his legal guardian. 

If someone claimed to be house sharing, the district would already have you flagged.  You would need to show your drivers license and file a legal affidavit under oath to verify your address.  Our truant officers follow suspicious students home to verify that they actually live there.  Every year there are at least a dozen fraudulent students.  I feel sorry for the kids, but our district spends almost $20k per high school student.  Its grand larceny.

Its absolutely illegal in my village to rent out rooms in your house.  If a neighborhood is zoned single family you cannot legally turn your home into a rooming house.  You cannot legally rent out your coach house in my village either.

So this guarantees that no low-income people can attend the local school? Otherwise, I am not sure what your point is. I am merely trying to state that the mother's job does not ensure that she cannot live in the district...
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: TurtleDove on April 05, 2013, 07:15:05 PM
So this guarantees that no low-income people can attend the local school?

I think this is a sideways way of looking at it.  The rules exist so that people who live in the district and pay taxes in the district are able to attend the public schools in the district.  If the woman in the OP lived in the district, it wouldn't matter what her income was.  The problem is not her income. It is that she does not live in the district.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 07:22:56 PM
So this guarantees that no low-income people can attend the local school?

I think this is a sideways way of looking at it.  The rules exist so that people who live in the district and pay taxes in the district are able to attend the public schools in the district.  If the woman in the OP lived in the district, it wouldn't matter what her income was.  The problem is not her income. It is that she does not live in the district.

The OP and others have repeatedly stated that the mother is low income, so she cannot possibly live in the district. To me, that is the sideways way of looking at it.

If the OP had stated her other suspicions, aside from the income, there probably would be less argument. But just because she has a low income job, 2 children and (says she has) no alimony, it is assumed she must be guilty of fraud. I don't agree. I see no compelling evidence, other than one vague dodgy conversation, to doubt her truthfullness.

I say again, if the OP doubts she lives in the area, then by all means, report her. But to say, "She works at Walmart therefore she cannot possibly live in this neighborhood" is an interesting assumption.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Sharnita on April 05, 2013, 07:23:26 PM
So this guarantees that no low-income people can attend the local school?

I think this is a sideways way of looking at it.  The rules exist so that people who live in the district and pay taxes in the district are able to attend the public schools in the district.  If the woman in the OP lived in the district, it wouldn't matter what her income was.  The problem is not her income. It is that she does not live in the district.

Realistically the issue gets political.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 07:30:03 PM
I have repeatedly asserted that the OP should trust her gut and do what she believes is right, and trust the district to sort it out.

However, as several commenters have pointed out, the unnecessary and repeated insistence that the offender could not possibly live in the district because OP believes her to have too-low of an income - EVEN THOUGH IT IS IRRELEVANT to the child's qualification to attend the school - gives the impression of snobbery.

Living in the district is absolutely a qualification to attending the school.  If the lowest priced home in my district was $500k, and a parent told me she worked as a counter person at a fast food restaurant, it would be highly unlikely that they were really living in the district.  Possibly, if living with a relative or some other circumstance, but otherwise impossible.

Some communities are small enough and wealthy enough that no one with a low income could live there.  Pointing that out does not make the OP a snob.

No one has argued that living in the district is not a qualification. What people are arguing is the assertion that "no one with a low income could live there." There are some low-income people that manage to live in Beverly Hills. This woman could be renting a bedroom in a house in the area for herself and her 2 kids. How she lives is really no one's business but hers.

The OP has been encouraged to support her if she is suspicious that the woman is not really living in the area. But doing based soley on the fact that she has determined she can't be because of her job is premature.

The OP is not judge, jury & executioner.  If she reports her the school district will have an established method of investigation.

In my high school district (Tie Magazine once called it the best in the country), 8th graders are enrolled directly at their elementary schools.  Public, parochial and private students all get a visit from the counsels to register.  Anyone else that wants to register must go to the township office (not the highschool).  They need absolute proof of residency, and proof of guardianship/parentage.  You can't just have your nephew live with you - you need to be his legal guardian. 

If someone claimed to be house sharing, the district would already have you flagged.  You would need to show your drivers license and file a legal affidavit under oath to verify your address.  Our truant officers follow suspicious students home to verify that they actually live there.  Every year there are at least a dozen fraudulent students.  I feel sorry for the kids, but our district spends almost $20k per high school student.  Its grand larceny.

Its absolutely illegal in my village to rent out rooms in your house.  If a neighborhood is zoned single family you cannot legally turn your home into a rooming house.  You cannot legally rent out your coach house in my village either.

So this guarantees that no low-income people can attend the local school? Otherwise, I am not sure what your point is. I am merely trying to state that the mother's job does not ensure that she cannot live in the district...

No what it guarantees is that no one can attend the school unless they are legally entitled to do so.   If the OP's neighbor is not living in her putative housing, does not own a home, is not renting one, doesn't live with a relative, is not a live in domestic servant, then she is probably not a legal resident of the school district.

Several years ago I had an elderly neighbor who had a live in housekeeper.  The housekeeper had two teenagers that lived in the house also.  Those kids were absolutely entitled to go to our district school because they were actually living in the district.  A lady at my church has taken in over 50 foster children in the past 30 years.  Those kids were legal residents of the district.  Another neighbor had her daughter and 3 kids move in with her after a divorce - also legal residents.

The OP never expressed any distaste for low income students, but honestly in some districts there are very few low income students because the cost of housing is so very high.  Combine that with a fake mailing address and it is reasonable for the OP to have suspicions.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 07:32:20 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: bansidhe on April 05, 2013, 07:37:00 PM
This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. 

It's the same thing. If someone can't afford to live in the district, their kids can't get into the good school. Thus, kids whose parents don't have much money often receive sub-par educations, which leads to them having not-so-great jobs, which leads to them living in districts with crummy schools, which leads to their kids receiving sub-par educations. And on and on. It's unfair and infuriating.

It is not, however, what the OP is asking about or anything she can solve by herself. My take on the whole thing is that the OP should not contact the rule-breaker. There's no point and it will only lead to an ugly situation. I would address the matter with the school in general terms, not naming any names, and ask what steps they are taking to ensure that all the kids who do live in the district are able to attend the school. Is there a school board the issue can be raised with?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: TurtleDove on April 05, 2013, 07:42:20 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

POD.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 07:42:55 PM
This isn't about affording the school - it's about affording to live in the district. 

It's the same thing. If someone can't afford to live in the district, their kids can't get into the good school. Thus, kids whose parents don't have much money often receive sub-par educations, which leads to them having not-so-great jobs, which leads to them living in districts with crummy schools, which leads to their kids receiving sub-par educations. And on and on. It's unfair and infuriating.

It is not, however, what the OP is asking about or anything she can solve by herself. My take on the whole thing is that the OP should not contact the rule-breaker. There's no point and it will only lead to an ugly situation. I would address the matter with the school in general terms, not naming any names, and ask what steps they are taking to ensure that all the kids who do live in the district are able to attend the school. Is there a school board the issue can be raised with?

Sometimes there are districts side by side with equal funding, but different ways of spending the money.  My cousin lived in a district that spent lots of money on enrichment and had top notch schools with amazing test scores.   The suburb next to her (with equal finding) spent their money on fancy building projects and other things.  There was a big problem with cheaters trying to get their kids into her district from the one next door. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 07:46:34 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 07:54:00 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).

There was a bit more evidence.......

"A letter addressed to her was delivered to my house. When I went to drop it off, her "mail drop" screwed up the cover story."

I think that fact the the questionable conservation raised the flags means it was indeed suspicious.  And the OP has had multiple conversations with the "neighbor":

" I am sort of acquaintances with her.  I see her maybe 3 times a year in the neighborhood and once she was with another neighbor at another neighborhood's July 4th street party."
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: twiggy on April 05, 2013, 07:55:42 PM
Take education out of it. This is a service that OP is paying for that other people, who don't pay for it, are not entitled to. My mom lives in a neighborhood with community pools and parks. She pays HOA dues to maintain the pools/parks. My dad lives in the neighborhood just north of hers, but his neighborhood doesn't pay into the pool neighborhood HOAs. It would be wrong for my dad to go to the pool in Mom's neighborhood, even though he lives so close, or he can get to it, or Bro gave him a key. Mom and her neighbors pay for the pool.

I have a zoo membership that I buy every year. I can take guests, but I can't give SIL my card and let her go to the zoo with my pass. She didn't pay for it, and she's not entitled to use it. I realize these aren't exactly the same since Mom could invite Dad to the pool as her guest, or I could invite SIL to the zoo as my guest, but it's the best I could think of :)

OP, I think that if you are going to report the family, just do it. Don't contact the woman, just go to whoever is in charge and outline your concerns. I would keep it to the bare minimum and just the facts (she uses a drop box, possibly conversation you had with the person at her listed address.)
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: kareng57 on April 05, 2013, 07:55:58 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 05, 2013, 07:57:01 PM
That was not the sole evidence.  She said she received mail for this woman, went to the address, discovered somebody *else* living there, and that this woman uses that address as a mail drop.  She then learned from somebody (I'm confused about whether it was the person actually living in that home, or not) who said that, oh yeah, this woman uses the house as a mail drop so she can get her kids into this school district.  She then received further evidence when she talked to the woman herself at some point and learned that she's in a job that doesn't really pay enough to get her kids into that district, which then implied to her that the woman couldn't afford the district and that's why she's cheating.  The mail was the first and strongest evidence, and I think it's enough to go to the school with if she chooses to.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 07:59:29 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story. 
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: kareng57 on April 05, 2013, 08:03:15 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story.


There's no indication of that in post # 30 - that it was not until she took the mis-delivered letter to her.  It sounds to me as though she acquired this info fairly early on.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 08:07:43 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story.


There's no indication of that in post # 30 - that it was not until she took the mis-delivered letter to her.  It sounds to me as though she acquired this info fairly early on.

And anyway, I find it very odd that misdelivered mail would warrent a detailed conversation. wouldn't you normally just leave it in their box?
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Docslady21 on April 05, 2013, 08:08:00 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story.


There's no indication of that in post # 30 - that it was not until she took the mis-delivered letter to her.  It sounds to me as though she acquired this info fairly early on.

Right. She got to know the woman, and her financial/personal info, and THEN received a misdirected letter, discovered the mail drop scheme and put it all together. All of which is completely not even relevant to the OP's question, which was whether or not she should try to be nice and discourage the woman BEFORE turning the evidence in and whether or not she was bound by any sort of etiquette to do so.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Docslady21 on April 05, 2013, 08:10:42 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story.


There's no indication of that in post # 30 - that it was not until she took the mis-delivered letter to her.  It sounds to me as though she acquired this info fairly early on.

And anyway, I find it very odd that misdelivered mail would warrent a detailed conversation. wouldn't you normally just leave it in their box?

Not if you knew the person it was addressed to didn't live in the house it was addressed to. I'd definitely say something, say, "Hi! I have Sally's mail. I didn't know she lived here! I thought she lived over on Main St.?"
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Two Ravens on April 05, 2013, 08:14:49 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story.


There's no indication of that in post # 30 - that it was not until she took the mis-delivered letter to her.  It sounds to me as though she acquired this info fairly early on.

And anyway, I find it very odd that misdelivered mail would warrent a detailed conversation. wouldn't you normally just leave it in their box?

Not if you knew the person it was addressed to didn't live in the house it was addressed to. I'd definitely say something, say, "Hi! I have Sally's mail. I didn't know she lived here! I thought she lived over on Main St.?"

Nope! I certainly wouldn'r risk disturbing someone I had only met 3 times, then interrogate the person who answered the door about who lived there.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Poppea on April 05, 2013, 08:19:46 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story.


There's no indication of that in post # 30 - that it was not until she took the mis-delivered letter to her.  It sounds to me as though she acquired this info fairly early on.

And anyway, I find it very odd that misdelivered mail would warrent a detailed conversation. wouldn't you normally just leave it in their box?

Not if you knew the person it was addressed to didn't live in the house it was addressed to. I'd definitely say something, say, "Hi! I have Sally's mail. I didn't know she lived here! I thought she lived over on Main St.?"

Nope! I certainly wouldn't risk disturbing someone I had only met 3 times, then interrogate the person who answered the door about who lived there.

That's certainly a hostile way to look at it. 

The OP received a letter that belonged to the neighbor,  She was nice enough to walk it over to the house on the envelope.  She then rang the bell in order to make sure to correct person received the letter.  She asked if the addressee lived there or was home.  The home owner then somehow screwed up her cover story.

Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on April 05, 2013, 08:22:46 PM
Why are all the OP bashers ignoring the original post:

"However, she does not primarily reside in the school district.  She lives elsewhere but uses a mail drop inside the school district."

Because, when questioned, the sole evidence the OP has given is the fact that the OP works a low paying job, and one questionable conversation with the people at the person's stated place of residence.

(I don't believe that there is a policy here that we can never question OP's on the state of their assertions. We are all fallible, after all).


I actually find it quite odd that the OP, within a few minutes' acquaintanceship with the neighbour, know all the details about her income, whether she receives alimony/child support, daycare expenses etc.  I'm not saying that it's unbelievable, just odd IMO.  I don't know the salaries of my closest relatives/friends!

No one is "ignoring" the initial post, but many of us find the assertion that "she can't live in the district because she couldn't possibly afford to do so" completely irrelevant.

Because you have it backwards.  She has been a casual acquaintance of the neighbor for awhile and then when she got the letter and took it to the house, the owner of the house screwed up her story.


There's no indication of that in post # 30 - that it was not until she took the mis-delivered letter to her.  It sounds to me as though she acquired this info fairly early on.

And anyway, I find it very odd that misdelivered mail would warrent a detailed conversation. wouldn't you normally just leave it in their box?

Not if you knew the person it was addressed to didn't live in the house it was addressed to. I'd definitely say something, say, "Hi! I have Sally's mail. I didn't know she lived here! I thought she lived over on Main St.?"

Nope! I certainly wouldn'r risk disturbing someone I had only met 3 times, then interrogate the person who answered the door about who lived there.

DocsLady has the correct timeline.

 Woman uses an actual address as a mail drop. I went there to drop off the mis-delivered letter. Person  (not the Woman) answered door said "She doesnt live here." Akward pause. "I mean she uh I'll give her the letter." Door slammed shut.

Not much of an interrogation or else I should be hired by the military for my interrogation skillz.
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: twiggy on April 05, 2013, 08:23:54 PM
I've received mail for my neighbors 3 times in the past 2 years. I always ring the bell and hand it to them. It somehow feels off to me to just drop it in the box. You're being neighborly by giving them the misdelivered mail, but not feeling neighborly enough to knock and say "hi"?  :-\
Title: Re: Asking a "Neighbor" about their primary place of residence
Post by: Wordgeek on April 05, 2013, 08:26:49 PM
I'm locking the topic for now, to allow people to catch up on the the reading.

Just as a general note, if you find the quote tree getting longer than 3 or 4 posts, chances are the discussion is getting out of hand.