Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => All In A Day's Work => Topic started by: HelenB on April 16, 2013, 06:16:38 PM

Title: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: HelenB on April 16, 2013, 06:16:38 PM
I know we talk about not getting into JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) with difficult people. But is that the same as giving people a blunt reason for something, and is it rude?

I'm having a blunt week. 

Brief background:  During a different medical emergency, my doctor found a growth on my {part of my body}.  These growths are generally not dangerous, and if not benign, easy to treat. But, it is important to find out if they are benign or not.  It took about a month and a half to get into a {specialist for this}, and after meeting with her I wanted the first possible biopsy appointment I could get. I scheduled the biopsy for a time when I had no work meetings scheduled. 

As I was getting ready to leave for the appointment yesterday a coworker told me he was having a meeting and they needed me there.  I told him I had another appointment and couldn't make it, but he insisted that the world was ending and I had to drop everything and be at his meeting.

So I told him that I was going to the hospital to have needles stuck into my {part} so they could get cells out and see if I had cancer, and this was more important to me than his meeting. He froze for a second and then agreed with me.

Today, someone reported that a mistake was found in a database set up, caused by someone in a group that does the same things my group does (but that we don't control -- there's a long story behind why everyone thinks I have any control over the other group). 

The person who caught the error wanted to know what kind of re-training would be done for that person so that she wouldn't make this mistake again. Very insistent on the exact plans for just that person. So I ended up telling him, "Well, she's dead, so I'm positive she'll never do it again.  Here's what we can do to try to stop others from doing it..."

Too blunt? Or, just being honest? I honestly tried to not be specific about the situations, but it didn't work.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: MyFamily on April 16, 2013, 06:24:59 PM
First of all (((hugs))) and I hope your test results are good.

That said, I think you were rude.  You could have given the same information over without being so blunt about  - I'm sorry, coworker, but I didn't know about this meeting and I've scheduled a very important medical test that I cannot reschedule.  In the future, I strongly advise you to give me more  notice - and then walk away. 

I do understand why you were blunt - you are under an incredibly large amount of stress right now.  And I really do have to end with ((((hugs)))).
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: DottyG on April 16, 2013, 06:25:11 PM
I think tone has a lot to do with it.  Both things could be said in a way that would come across rudely.  And they can come across as not rude.  It's all in how you say them.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 16, 2013, 06:30:25 PM
In the first instance, I do think you were approaching the rude line, but depending on how insistent he was being, maybe not.

In the second instance, I think you are in the clear, since the mistake finder was focussing on that particular person.  And you came back with what to do to prevent the mistake from happening again by anyone else.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: AmethystAnne on April 16, 2013, 09:21:32 PM
I guess it's all in how you said it, in both incidences.

Blunt does not necessarily equal rude. Bluntness gets to the point, and then everyone can get on with life.

Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: EllenS on April 16, 2013, 09:45:25 PM
First, I am sorry you have had a lot of stress and I hope your [part of the body test] comes back A-OK.

I think a lot also has to do with the relative job positions and attitudes of the people you were talking to.  Some people try to push others around and demand things, not because it is really as important as they claim, or is necessary for the work, but because they are trying to establish dominance over you.

For example, a  boss might rightfully insist that you reschedule a lunch date or a dental cleaning, for an important meeting.  In that case a more deferential mention of the fact that this is a medically important test, or the word "biopsy", might be more prudent than throwing it in their face.

On the other hand if the co-worker is merely performing dog-park dominance behavior, I don't think you were necesarily rude to push back at the same level of intensity.  If your tone was snotty, that might be rude, but I think a flat mention of facts was OK after deflection failed.  You are pointing out that the person is fixating on the wrong part of the question, while saying so directly would probably just make them defensive.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: GreenBird on April 16, 2013, 11:11:52 PM
I think sticking with repeating, "I'm afraid that won't be possible - I'm not available." as you're walking away would have been a good response for the guy insisting you attend his meeting.  Maybe add in, "Let me know how it goes."  If it was your boss or other senior person, I might also add "I have a medical appointment I can't reschedule". 

For the second example, I think "She's no longer with the company" would have been less jarring than "She's dead".  Or "She's passed away" would convey the same information and be a little less abrupt.  I think focusing on how to prevent the problem with other people in the future was excellent.

It sounds like you were more abrupt than rude in both cases, but depending on tone you may have been pushing the envelope a little.  It sounds like you're under a lot of pressure right now so cut yourself some slack, try to take a deep breath before responding to pushy people, and remember all your handy eHell phrases.  And I hope you get good results on your tests! 
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: Luci on April 17, 2013, 12:34:19 AM
I know we talk about not getting into JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) with difficult people. But is that the same as giving people a blunt reason for something, and is it rude?

I'm having a blunt week.  ...

So I told him that I was going to the hospital to have needles stuck into my {part} so they could get cells out and see if I had cancer, and this was more important to me than his meeting. He froze for a second and then agreed with me. ...

"Well, she's dead, so I'm positive she'll never do it again.  Here's what we can do to try to stop others from doing it..."

Too blunt? Or, just being honest? I honestly tried to not be specific about the situations, but it didn't work.

You were not rude in either instance. You were on a health mission, possibly terrified for both the procedure and the result, firmly told your coworker what was happening without too may details. He got the point.

In the second, well, she is dead. Maybe you didn't show enough sadness for that for others' comfort, but you presented a way to keep the same thing from happening again. What more did they want?

I hope all is well with you now. Hugs and prayers.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: bopper on April 17, 2013, 08:22:10 AM
I think in a work situation a little JADEing is okay.

I think I would have gone with "Oh, sorry, I really can't make that meeting. I have an important medical test that has been scheduled for a month and a half."

"I am unavailable" is too vague for the work world.  If you reallllly don't want to mention any medical tests, then you could say "Let me check with my boss on how s/he wants me to prioritize" and then mention your test to the boss.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: stargazer on April 17, 2013, 08:57:57 AM
I agree with others - blunt does not equal rude.  You were not rude - sometimes when people are insisting on something, blunt is the only thing that gets through to them. 
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 17, 2013, 09:08:34 AM
First of all (((hugs))) and I hope your test results are good.

That said, I think you were rude.  You could have given the same information over without being so blunt about  - I'm sorry, coworker, but I didn't know about this meeting and I've scheduled a very important medical test that I cannot reschedule.  In the future, I strongly advise you to give me more  notice - and then walk away. 

I do understand why you were blunt - you are under an incredibly large amount of stress right now.  And I really do have to end with ((((hugs)))).

Hugs

And this. I think simply saying "I have a medical appointment that can't be rescheduled" would have been a more polite response. I don't understand the need to be graphic to state "needles stuck into" other than for shock value.

On the second a simple "She is no longer with us" would have sufficed.

I think in both cases, the people were irritating you and your responses reflected your irritation level.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: asb8 on April 17, 2013, 11:39:43 AM
I slightly disagree with the group. I think you were a little rude. It's one thing to be blunt when people push unreasonably but going right from 'very vague' to 'massively blunt' with no middle ground isn't called for if the people you are speaking to don't have the needed information to frame their responses.

1. Did you tell the co-worker that you had a non-negotiable medical appointment? If you did and he kept pushing, then you're in the clear.  If not, then I think you went overboard. You don't need to give details but there is a difference between "I have an appointment" and "I have a doctors appointment that must take place today."
2. Did you try to explain that the employee was no longer there? The worried person was clearly not aware she had died and if the error was large enough, had cause to be concerned regarding the prevention of it occuring again.  Going right to 'well she's dead' probably wasn't neccessary.


Just my two cents.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: lilfox on April 17, 2013, 11:40:16 AM
I think there's a hierarchy to the kinds of responses that are warranted to situations like the ones in the OP, and it should be more dependent on how the question (demand) is broached than whether the OP feels blunt or not.  It's like playing a trump card - you don't slap it down on the first move, you wait and play increasingly more "valuable" cards until you have no choice because the other person isn't accepting what you've already said. Whether the trump card involves more specific personal information is up to the individual, but I could definitely see using it as a last resort to really drive home a point (because I myself would certainly do this if I felt it would be the fastest and most effective way to shut down the conversation).

 :(  I can't, I have a conflict at that time.
 ???  Sorry, I have a previously scheduled event I cannot change.
 :-\  I have an important medical appointment that cannot be rescheduled.
 >:(  (Seriously?)  I'm about to undergo <procedure>, I won't be at your meeting.

One would hope the last line wouldn't be necessary, but some people just won't take any other version of no for an answer.

In the second case, I can totally see dropping the "she's dead" bomb if the other person won't take a more vague response on its face.  To me it doesn't come across as uncaring about the death, it conveys the point that the other person simply wasn't listening to the responses until they got blunt enough to make an impact.  In my head, the conversation would have gone like this:

Coworker: "Well, Susan sure screwed up the database.  We need to make sure that doesn't happen again"
OP: "Our team is on it, and we'll have it resolved by X date"
Coworker: "Yes, but we can't risk it happening again.  Susan really needs to be retrained"
OP: "Rest assured, our processes will stress the training for that database element"
Coworker: "I want to see your retraining plans for Susan, it's very important that she not mess up again"
OP: "I understand completely, all employees' training will be closely monitored by management"
Coworker: "Susan should have to take some kind of evaluation before she handles the database again!"
OP: "Well, she's dead, so I'm positive she'll never do it again.  Here's what we can do to try to stop others from doing it..."

To be fair, the last line could have been "Well she's no longer with the company so I'm positive she'll never do it again" but OP's version was more direct, shorter, and left nothing up for inquiry (since I can imagine the coworker then asking if she had been fired for incompetence and what else might she have screwed up, since the convo was so specific to Susan).

OP - hope your results are good!
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: ladyknight1 on April 17, 2013, 11:51:24 AM
POD, Lilfox

I have become more blunt since moving away from my FOO (everything must be sugarcoated with them), and I have to watch what I say and how I react at work. I don't think anything crossed the line into rudeness.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: asb8 on April 17, 2013, 12:12:48 PM
Yes, pod to Lilfox.  That is what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: EllenS on April 17, 2013, 12:25:35 PM
POD to lilfox.  100%. 
I am also going to say something that may be politically incorrect, but it is based on my own observations in the work world. If you are sensitive about gender politics, please mentally add the phrase "in my experience" to everything I say below, and don't accuse me of making offensive generalizations.  This is what I have seen.

The "rudeness level" of your comments depends on whether you were talking to a man or a woman.  A lot of women would probably be unduly shocked by what you said, and it would be overkill.  Women also tend to over-explain, over-apologize, and seek permission to voice their needs and requirements in the workplace, and put pressure on other women to behave the same way.  Women tend to use words like "I'm afraid" and "I'm sorry" when they are not necessary, and to behave like subordinates toward their peers.

Men tend to push for what they want and ignore subtle or deflective hints.  You have to whack them over the head with a rolled-up newspaper to get their attention to the big picture.  When women talk like men at work (and I don't mean crude language, I mean direct and without circumlocution), they get accused of being rude, Female Dog, etc.

Unless you were using a "hey, stupid", type tone what you said was not rude.  You were also not apologetic, deferential and submissive.  There is no reason you should be, unless that is necessary to your role in the heirarchy or helps you function in your workplace.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: TootsNYC on April 17, 2013, 01:11:44 PM
I think in both the situations you explained, you went nuclear without even trying for the less abrupt, less potentially rude thing.

Why did you got to "needle stuck into me to see if I have cancer" before you said, "I have a doctor's appointment, and I can't reschedule it."

And why can't you say, far earlier, "Susan passed away"? (though the matter-of-fact or even humorous, "well, she's dead, so that's not a problem" isn't rude at all, and it might serve to sting him a little so that he won't be quite so insistent)

I actually agree w/ EllenS about gender/power language, but I think you can get there without revealing more of your medical info than is wise or polite.

(I've become sort of sensitive to the "privacy" issue from the OTHER side, the idea that if I'm not truly in your inner circle, then dumping your health issues on me is actually sort of rude, bcs it presumes and intimacy that doesn't exist. I didn't sign on to be on those sorts of terms with you)
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: EllenS on April 17, 2013, 01:30:22 PM
Toots, I got the impression from OP that she did try to defuse/deflect/"that won't be possible" and the insister kept pushing, resulting in a gradually escalating scenario like Lilfox outlined.  Of course if the "end it" move was the first thing out of OP's mouth, yeah I agree with you.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: bah12 on April 17, 2013, 01:46:55 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with being blunt.  Nor do I think that vagueness and "that won't be possible" is always the best way to tell someone "no".  Sometimes, people need a reason and sometimes, the straight forward truth is the best approach to take.  Of course, there is an art to that kind of blunt honesty.  Tone and audience being the biggest factor.

For your specific cases, I think this:

1.  If the other person wouldn't or couldn't accept that a doctor's appointment is more important than whatever the crisis he was dealing with at the time, then you have some options.  One would be to just walk away.  Another, to be vague and say something "it's a very necessary appointment that I cannot reschedule".  And then there's the option to just come out and say "I'm getting tested for cancer today.  I'm not willing/able to wait to help you with this right now."  And sometimes, the path of least resistence really is to just be honest.  And how honest you are about your own medical issues is really up to you.  Because who you draw into that 'circle of know' is completely your perrogative.  So, how you decided to explain what was happening probably could have been smoother.  Depending on the body part you were referring to, it might have been TMI or too shocking for a work environment/coworker boundary.  It probably would have gotten the same point across to say "I'm being checked for cancer".

2.  This time a coworker is talking about the mistake of a specific person and talking about training and action items for that specific person.  Again, if this is the type of person who won't let you get a word in edgewise to subtly explain what's going on, then bluntness might be the answer.  Saying "She's dead" again, might not be the best choice of words.  "She passed away last month" or "She's no longer here with us" might get the same point accross while avoiding the directness that some people don't appreciate. 

But overall, I don't really see anything you did as rude.  Bluntness has it's place...if your tone and the audience allowed for that type of straight-forwardness, then ther'es nothing wrong with it.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: HelenB on April 17, 2013, 07:00:44 PM
lilfox, I think you hit on what was making me uncomfortable with what I'd said.  I did try to diffuse/deflect, but I could have gone a few more steps before pulling out the trump card (love that analogy). 

EllenS -- I hadn't thought about the gender/power language thing -- very interesting.  They were both men, and they both do push very hard for what they want.  And, I'm supposed to be working on being more forceful at work, but I don't think I went the right direction with what I ended up saying.  Next time this sort of thing comes up, I will attempt forceful, but general.

(Still waiting for a call from the doctor's office -- hoping that not hearing right away means that the results are of a lower concern)
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: HenrysMom on April 17, 2013, 07:30:03 PM
There are times, with certain kinds of people, the non-descriptive polite answer just won't cut it.  In the OP's case, it sounds like she tried to politely deflect without result.  So she went with the blunt truth - people don't always like it, but it usually works.

I think I've told the story about a co-worker in a similar situation - a client called the company and wanted to speak to the owner, who had passed away the previous week.  Coworker kept trying to pass the call to the manager, but client wasn't having it.  Finally, Coworker said, "Owner is deceased."  Only then was Coworker finally able to transfer the call to Manager.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: EllenS on April 17, 2013, 08:05:26 PM
(Still waiting for a call from the doctor's office -- hoping that not hearing right away means that the results are of a lower concern)

Sending good thoughts. 
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: Seven Ate Nine on April 17, 2013, 08:50:35 PM


EllenS -- I hadn't thought about the gender/power language thing -- very interesting.  They were both men, and they both do push very hard for what they want.  And, I'm supposed to be working on being more forceful at work, but I don't think I went the right direction with what I ended up saying.  Next time this sort of thing comes up, I will attempt forceful, but general.

I think that this history makes a bit of a difference as well.  At my current job, I would take all of the steps lined out by lilfox, because there is no history of people being pushy.  They'd have to really really get under my skin for me to push the big red button.  At my last job, my boss had a huge history of bullying me (and others) into working excessive overtime, and otherwise doing things that I should not have been asked to do (doing two people's work alone, or working above my paygrade).  With him, I would have hit the nuclear option pretty much as soon as the first objection came out, because I knew from experience that only going nuclear was going to get me out of the argument and on my way home.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: EllenS on April 17, 2013, 10:54:08 PM
I just had a really interesting discussion with DH about this.  He said, the way he thinks - he and most men he knows would prefer to hear the real reason up front, because it saves them the time and effort of an "argument".  He does not see bluntness as rude, but as helpful and efficient.

To him, giving subtle and indirect answers is a signal that something is being concealed, and his reaction is, "so what nail do I have to hammer down to achieve my goal?"  He will continue to push and argue, because he assumes there must not be a valid reason or it would have been stated up front.

I just thought it was such a different perspective than the way I think and interact, it was interesting.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: cicero on April 18, 2013, 01:48:46 AM
what lilfox said.

and I don't think you needed to go to step four - i *still* wouldn't have said "i need to be tested for cancer on my [women's part]" because frankly it doesn't matter. the point is that you are an adult, you cleared this with your boss, and you need to go to the doctor.

I certainly understand where you are coming from, and I've BTDT - when you are so stressed because you are undergoing tests and waiting for results, sometimes your brain freezes over and your brain to mouth filter malfunctions. I 'm pretty sure that when i was going thru the same thing you are going thru, i probably said a few things i shouldn't have said, and ruffled a few feathers. 

huge hugs and best wishes for a healthy outcome.

 
I just had a really interesting discussion with DH about this.  He said, the way he thinks - he and most men he knows would prefer to hear the real reason up front, because it saves them the time and effort of an "argument".  He does not see bluntness as rude, but as helpful and efficient.


be that as it may - you can say "I can't be at the meeting because a bunch of doctors are going to be poking my female regions with doodads to make sure i don't have cancer" or you can say "i have an unavoidable and unchangeable medical appointment. I sent all my notes to the team, I cleared this with BigBoss , and Marie will be there for Q&A." the first is blunt and is the real reason but if you ask me, it's TMI in a workplace (may be TMI anywhere but this is a workplace). the second is clear, concise, the real reason, and more proactive and professional.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: HelenB on April 18, 2013, 10:40:24 AM
...
and I don't think you needed to go to step four - i *still* wouldn't have said "i need to be tested for cancer on my [women's part]" because frankly it doesn't matter.
...

I'm sorry everyone -- I accidentally misled you. The test was on a part that both men and women have in the neck.  I didn't put the real body part in the email to make it harder for people in real life to identify me here.

It is ironic that I was very specific with someone who knows exactly who I am, but was general on the internet.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: rigs32 on April 18, 2013, 10:58:24 AM

The "rudeness level" of your comments depends on whether you were talking to a man or a woman.  A lot of women would probably be unduly shocked by what you said, and it would be overkill.  Women also tend to over-explain, over-apologize, and seek permission to voice their needs and requirements in the workplace, and put pressure on other women to behave the same way.  Women tend to use words like "I'm afraid" and "I'm sorry" when they are not necessary, and to behave like subordinates toward their peers.

Men tend to push for what they want and ignore subtle or deflective hints.  You have to whack them over the head with a rolled-up newspaper to get their attention to the big picture.  When women talk like men at work (and I don't mean crude language, I mean direct and without circumlocution), they get accused of being rude, Female Dog, etc.


Considering this was in the work place and not a family gathering or while out with friends, I agree with this.  According to much of the discussion in this thread, it sounds like many of you would think I was rude on a daily basis.  But being blunt is often the way to get my point across and cut off the men who are trying to bully me. 

The last time I tried lilfox's approach, I ended up picking a jury hours after a cervical biopsy.  The female supervisors were horrified my male supervisor wasn't flexible.  I'd just gotten promoted and didn't want to rock the boat too much.  That experience taught me a big lesson and I will continue to be blunt as needed so I can get my personal needs met when they are, in fact, needs.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: EllenS on April 18, 2013, 11:52:18 AM
I guess I should have had DH type his comment instead of trying to repeat it!  I didn't mean naming body parts - gendered or otherwise.  I was speaking more generally about the idea that what women often perceive as being "polite" or "subtle", is perceived by men as being "evasive" or "deceptive".

It was something DH and I had never really talked about before, since I am fairly blunt most of the time.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 18, 2013, 12:58:50 PM
I just had a really interesting discussion with DH about this.  He said, the way he thinks - he and most men he knows would prefer to hear the real reason up front, because it saves them the time and effort of an "argument".  He does not see bluntness as rude, but as helpful and efficient.To him, giving subtle and indirect answers is a signal that something is being concealed, and his reaction is, "so what nail do I have to hammer down to achieve my goal?"  He will continue to push and argue, because he assumes there must not be a valid reason or it would have been stated up front.

I just thought it was such a different perspective than the way I think and interact, it was interesting.

I think your DH is right.  In my "woman''s" speak "I'd prefer not to." means "No, not happening". In DH's mind it means "I don't want to but will."

But I think you could have been direct with "I'm on my way out the door for a biopsy". Being graphic about needles and body parts was not necessary.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: JeanFromBNA on April 18, 2013, 01:13:51 PM
IMO, everything that Lilifox wrote between the first and last statements would be a waste of time.  But I work in construction and engineering, which is probably 90% male.  I am more comfortable with bluntness, but it has cost me female friendships.  EllenS has made outstanding observations on male/female communication. 

HelenB, perhaps you should just try not to be graphic.  It would be just as direct to say, "My doctor has scheduled a biopsy at 2PM, and I can't miss that."
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: cheyne on April 18, 2013, 03:42:27 PM
POD to lilfox.  100%. 
I am also going to say something that may be politically incorrect, but it is based on my own observations in the work world. If you are sensitive about gender politics, please mentally add the phrase "in my experience" to everything I say below, and don't accuse me of making offensive generalizations.  This is what I have seen.

The "rudeness level" of your comments depends on whether you were talking to a man or a woman.  A lot of women would probably be unduly shocked by what you said, and it would be overkill.  Women also tend to over-explain, over-apologize, and seek permission to voice their needs and requirements in the workplace, and put pressure on other women to behave the same way.  Women tend to use words like "I'm afraid" and "I'm sorry" when they are not necessary, and to behave like subordinates toward their peers.

Men tend to push for what they want and ignore subtle or deflective hints.  You have to whack them over the head with a rolled-up newspaper to get their attention to the big picture.  When women talk like men at work (and I don't mean crude language, I mean direct and without circumlocution), they get accused of being rude, Female Dog, etc.

Unless you were using a "hey, stupid", type tone what you said was not rude.  You were also not apologetic, deferential and submissive.  There is no reason you should be, unless that is necessary to your role in the heirarchy or helps you function in your workplace.

Thank you!  This explains many of the differences of opinion on all topics on this board.  I too work with about 95% men and the OP's two conversations would not be rude or really even considered "blunt".

I do not think the OP was rude in either circumstance, especially since she had tried to "soft sell" before going blunt.  If there is a time and place for bluntness, it is definitely at work. 
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked
Post by: HelenB on April 19, 2013, 12:37:21 PM
Update:  the doctor's office called and the growth is benign! I knew intellectually that that was almost certainly going to be the case, but hadn't realized how much worry the emotional side was carrying.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 19, 2013, 12:44:22 PM
Yay!
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: Firecat on April 19, 2013, 01:37:35 PM
So glad for you!
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: cicero on April 19, 2013, 01:39:48 PM
yay! so happy to hear!
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: EllenS on April 19, 2013, 01:54:57 PM
Great update, thanks!
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: MyFamily on April 19, 2013, 02:49:22 PM
I'm so happy to hear your news!
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: Marguette on April 19, 2013, 06:40:18 PM
Glad to hear the good news.

I think the “don’t JADE” applies to situations when people are going to counter every justification, argument, defense or explanation you offer them with “But you could…” and then you offer another J, A, D, or E, and then they are again “But… ” and so on forever.

I don’t believe that it means you must never explain yourself and you must stick to, in effect “Because I said so and I’m not telling you why.” It is reasonable to give some explanation (once) to people whom you owe an explanation to (at work, say), or who want to know because they care about you (friends and family).
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: *inviteseller on April 19, 2013, 11:41:20 PM
(((((((((Hugs))))))))  So glad the tests came back with a great result .  I tend to be blunt with people who do not take 'That won't be possible" for an answer too, so I sympathize. Also, in the working world, sometimes that answer is not acceptable because it has to deal with the workings of a group that rely on each other.   The first instance you may have strayed into a TMI situation, but again, sounds like he would not listen.  I agree with the others and just said I have a previously scheduled appointment that cannot be changed, we will discuss the meeting when I return.  Last minute things that become a NOWNOWNOW because someone did not plan is annoying.  For the second one, co worker was obviously out for blood on whomever made the mistake and asked if they would be retrained.  That you had to explain why not isn't blunt, it is truth.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: NyaChan on April 20, 2013, 12:38:04 AM
I think bluntness is not per se bad, but it does cross into rude if it is used in order to make someone feel discomfited.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: VorFemme on April 20, 2013, 02:02:09 PM
Either a man or a woman should be able to understand "I am scheduled for some medical tests that need to be done sooner rather than later - I can not reschedule this close to the appointment."

Doesn't matter if it a male part, a female part, cancer, infection, heart, or whatever - it is not going to be rescheduled AND you have to be there for them to do the tests.  You can't "phone it in"!

The deceased worker - rephrasing the comment as "they are no longer working for our company" could be escalated to "they passed away".  Although I have run into a few people who only understand "dead" as meaning "dead" - any synonyms with less impact don't get processed, it seems.....

And my own VorGuy needs to be hit with a big verbal blunt object, because trying to be "politely vague" is seen as obfuscation, prevarication, or just plain lying (because it took him into his late fifties to look up the real meaning of the first two words). 

I now know not to tell him "just a minute" as I head down the hall to the bathroom (changing table with a baby, closet with an armload of clean clothes, standing at the stove with a skillet in one hand & a spatula in the other, whatever is going on that he can't see what I'm doing because there is a wall or two between us) if what I really mean is "YOUR needs are taking a back seat to what I am already doing because my hands are FULL right now".

Sadly, it too me until 2012 to figure out some of this out.......boy, do I feel dumb.
Title: Re: I know I didn't need to tell them, but it worked - Good update #31
Post by: Shortylicious on April 21, 2013, 09:13:11 AM
Great news on the results! What a relief.
I'd caution you in the future to not give out such specific information about your health at work. VorFemme's wording was vague yet specific enough to get the message across. Following good etiquette does not mean you have to forfeit personal and private information.