Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: Cuddlepie on April 21, 2013, 09:26:37 PM

Title: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 21, 2013, 09:26:37 PM
I would like everyones' honest feedback please.  Would you be OK with a lodger (not a friend or relative) using your personal hand-crotched blanket while they watch TV?

BG:  As I have been working less due to health issues, I have taken in a female lodger (furnished room with utilities included but not food etc) to help cover the bills.  Overall she is a good lodger although there are a few things that annoy me and I feel these annoyances are colouring my view regarding the blanket.  Over the last couple of months I have learnt that given an inch she will take a mile ...  eg:  asked if she could have a headache tablet, then a week later when I went to take one there were none left, which meant she had later helped herself to further tablets.

I feel that this blanket is 'mine' and not included with the rent.  Am I being ridiculous or not?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on April 21, 2013, 09:35:30 PM
Is this really a lodger or a roommate?  Just wondering how you would characterize the relationship in terms of your interaction and how the common areas are split up.

If I was rooming with someone I didn't know at all and had purely a business relationship with, I would ask them not to use the blanket and take it back right then and there.  If I were rooming with someone I am friendly with and came home to find them using my blanket which I leave on my couch, I wouldn't mind but might think it odd - especially so if they have their own blanket out but chose not to use it for whatever reason.  If I wanted to use it, I would not hesitate to tell them to return it to me.

As for the pills, i would talk to her about it.  "Lodger, I understood that you would only be using 1 pill to tide you over until you purchased your own.  I see that you have since used the entire bottle.  Please replace the bottle that you used.  In the future, please ask before you borrow or use my things."
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on April 21, 2013, 09:41:04 PM
I would not wants anyone using my personal blanket. having it be handmade makes it worse. The pill thing would drive me nuts - and since she only had permission for one pill, I would be re-evaulating having her in my home, what else is she taking without permission.

And I agree that when I wanted it she'd have to give it up
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: kareng57 on April 21, 2013, 10:03:10 PM
Is the blanket immediately accessible, such as already being folded onto the couch?  If so, I don't think that she's out-of-line for using it.  If it's in a closet and she's taking it out, she ought to ask permission first.

The pill issue - yes, that's indeed bothersome.  If it were me, I'd start keeping the pills in my own private space.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: LifeOnPluto on April 21, 2013, 10:14:28 PM
Is the blanket immediately accessible, such as already being folded onto the couch?  If so, I don't think that she's out-of-line for using it.  If it's in a closet and she's taking it out, she ought to ask permission first.

The pill issue - yes, that's indeed bothersome.  If it were me, I'd start keeping the pills in my own private space.

Yep. I think it largely depends on where the blanket was lying.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: citadelle on April 21, 2013, 10:24:54 PM
If the blanket was out, such as on the couch or a chair, I would consider it fair game. If you don't want anyone to use it, store it in your personal bedroom when it is not in use.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: delabela on April 21, 2013, 10:28:57 PM
I would assume a blanket folded on a couch or a chair in a common area was available to be used by whoever was using the space.  If I had a blanket I preferred others not use, I would not put it in the common area unless I was actually using it.

I admit that I am pretty unfamiliar with the distinction between a lodger and a roommate - I know there is one from reading these boards, but I have only ever been in roommate situations.  There may be some nuance to that situation I am not taking into account.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Surianne on April 21, 2013, 10:32:08 PM
I would assume a blanket folded on a couch or a chair in a common area was available to be used by whoever was using the space.  If I had a blanket I preferred others not use, I would not put it in the common area unless I was actually using it.

I agree.  If she's welcome to use the couch and television, I wouldn't have thought a blanket on the couch would be any different. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on April 21, 2013, 10:44:12 PM
I would assume a blanket folded on a couch or a chair in a common area was available to be used by whoever was using the space.  If I had a blanket I preferred others not use, I would not put it in the common area unless I was actually using it.

I agree.  If she's welcome to use the couch and television, I wouldn't have thought a blanket on the couch would be any different.

That's why i am curious as to the agreement re: common areas.  My last apartment which I shared, my roommate and I each purchased a couch and had a blanket we left on our respective couch.  It didn't mean I couldn't sit on hers, or she mine, but the blankets we kept to ourselves, there being no reason to share.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 21, 2013, 11:07:36 PM
Thank you for the replies and your perspectives.

To clarify:  This is my home.  Everything is in my name and I own the furniture, kitchen equipment, well.... everything in the unit.  Lodger pays to use her room and en-suite bathroom but shares the kitchen and living area with me and my son.  She owns nothing that we share. According to local law, I can make the rules for the house and a lodger virtually has little rights. Lodgers can be asked to move out without notice, not that I would do that).  So as Nyachan said, it is a business relationship, friendly but nonetheless a business relationship.  The pill issue had been handled tactfully (thanks e-hell :) ) when I discovered that they were all gone!

So, 'my' blanket:  It is folded and left over the arm on the sofa.  When I saw my lodger using it I was perturbed as she had it tucked around her feet and way up around her face.  I don't know why I feel like this, but it is like she is being too personal with it .... sorry, can't explain my rationale any better. 

Now, after reading the replies so far, am I acting in a PA way by moving the blanket and only bringing it to the living room while I'm wanting to watch TV, so she doesn't have access to it.  Part of me says it's OK not to share BUT another part is saying don't be petty :(. 

Any further advice guys? 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: citadelle on April 21, 2013, 11:20:27 PM
Thank you for the replies and your perspectives.

To clarify:  This is my home.  Everything is in my name and I own the furniture, kitchen equipment, well.... everything in the unit.  Lodger pays to use her room and en-suite bathroom but shares the kitchen and living area with me and my son.  She owns nothing that we share. According to local law, I can make the rules for the house and a lodger virtually has little rights. Lodgers can be asked to move out without notice, not that I would do that).  So as Nyachan said, it is a business relationship, friendly but nonetheless a business relationship.  The pill issue had been handled tactfully (thanks e-hell :) ) when I discovered that they were all gone!

So, 'my' blanket:  It is folded and left over the arm on the sofa.  When I saw my lodger using it I was perturbed as she had it tucked around her feet and way up around her face.  I don't know why I feel like this, but it is like she is being too personal with it .... sorry, can't explain my rationale any better. 

Now, after reading the replies so far, am I acting in a PA way by moving the blanket and only bringing it to the living room while I'm wanting to watch TV, so she doesn't have access to it.  Part of me says it's OK not to share BUT another part is saying don't be petty :(. 

Any further advice guys?

Since she is paying rent to live there, it is her home too. Honestly, it sounds a little bit like you resent the situation and wish you did not have a lodger/roommate. If I am wrong, I apologize for my assumption.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Minmom3 on April 21, 2013, 11:23:29 PM
Take the blanket you care about back into your own room when you aren't using it, and maybe leave out one you wouldn't mind her using. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: katycoo on April 21, 2013, 11:27:18 PM
I would assume it if was in the common areas and not an obviously personal item (ie toiletries or clothing) that it would be ok for me to use.

If you want to keep that particular blanket for youself, i would consider keeping one out for her to use, and telling her that you prefer that one, so you've brought her one out to use.

You're in a difficult situation.  As a lodger, you need to decide what is reasonable for her to use without asking, and what isn't, and maybe give her some guidelines.  I wouldn't have anticipated a problem if I was her.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 21, 2013, 11:36:31 PM
Thank you for the replies and your perspectives.

To clarify:  This is my home.  Everything is in my name and I own the furniture, kitchen equipment, well.... everything in the unit.  Lodger pays to use her room and en-suite bathroom but shares the kitchen and living area with me and my son.  She owns nothing that we share. According to local law, I can make the rules for the house and a lodger virtually has little rights. Lodgers can be asked to move out without notice, not that I would do that).  So as Nyachan said, it is a business relationship, friendly but nonetheless a business relationship.  The pill issue had been handled tactfully (thanks e-hell :) ) when I discovered that they were all gone!

So, 'my' blanket:  It is folded and left over the arm on the sofa.  When I saw my lodger using it I was perturbed as she had it tucked around her feet and way up around her face.  I don't know why I feel like this, but it is like she is being too personal with it .... sorry, can't explain my rationale any better. 

Now, after reading the replies so far, am I acting in a PA way by moving the blanket and only bringing it to the living room while I'm wanting to watch TV, so she doesn't have access to it.  Part of me says it's OK not to share BUT another part is saying don't be petty :(. 

Any further advice guys?

Since she is paying rent to live there, it is her home too. Honestly, it sounds a little bit like you resent the situation and wish you did not have a lodger/roommate. If I am wrong, I apologize for my assumption.

Citadelle, you are right.  I do have some resentment hence me asking for e-hellions opinions.  Sometimes, RL friends just want to support and not say what you really need to hear to live with a near-stranger amicably.  Perhaps I should have typed that it is my house rather than my home as it is certainly my lodgers home too.  And I do want her to be comfortable living here.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: delabela on April 22, 2013, 12:00:43 AM
I can certainly understand not wanting a special item to be used communally, and you don't have to justify that.  I think the graceful thing to do would be to leave a different blanket on the sofa that you don't mind her using, and bringing out your blanket when you want to use it.  That would not be PA.

It's a tough thing to live with other people in the best of circumstances, and it sounds like you are both still finding your feet in this situation. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: lakey on April 22, 2013, 12:24:01 AM
This isn't about the blanket or the pills. It's about your needing to communicate with your lodger and set ground rules. I had roommates when I was younger, these things don't improve unless you speak up. Nicely. If you won't take responsibility for speaking your mind you will be miserable.

Say things such as:
"I'm a bit fussy about my crocheted throw. I prefer you not use it."
"I really can't afford to supply you with headache medicine, I think we need to each buy our own stuff."

If she's offended too bad. She needs to buy her own stuff.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 22, 2013, 01:15:46 AM
Lakey, I totally agree with the sentiment in your post.  But, I have found that despite our discussion of ground rules, some things keep cropping up that I did not and could not have expected. I have brought up the issues in a nice way as they occurred and to be honest I don't have many rules as such, apart from expecting the three of us to be courteous and respectful of each other.  eg;  don't leave the kitchen messy and coming in quietly late at night.

Quoted from Lakey's post.  "If she's offended too bad. She needs to buy her own stuff."   I hate offending or hurting anyone and this attitude is one that I've had to cultivate with her due to the issue of borrowing a little and then using it all so there was none left for me and my son.  I found this totally inconsiderate and told her that from now on she does not get to borrow any food at all.  You know, 3 strikes and you're out !!
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Slartibartfast on April 22, 2013, 01:28:55 AM
She's paying for the right to use the common space (the living room).  Since you have the space furnished, and it's not like she has the option of putting all the furnishings away and pulling out her own whenever she wants to use it, I think it's reasonable to assume she's paying for the right to use the furnishings as well.  If it were me, I would assume that I could use anything other than personal or hygiene items - and I wouldn't think twice about using a blanket if it were left on the sofa.  (That's "using it while actually sitting on that sofa" - taking the blanket back to my room, building a pillow fort with it, etc. would be stretching reasonableness.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Onyx_TKD on April 22, 2013, 02:29:18 AM
Thank you for the replies and your perspectives.

To clarify:  This is my home.  Everything is in my name and I own the furniture, kitchen equipment, well.... everything in the unit. Lodger pays to use her room and en-suite bathroom but shares the kitchen and living area with me and my son.  She owns nothing that we share. According to local law, I can make the rules for the house and a lodger virtually has little rights. Lodgers can be asked to move out without notice, not that I would do that).  So as Nyachan said, it is a business relationship, friendly but nonetheless a business relationship.  The pill issue had been handled tactfully (thanks e-hell :) ) when I discovered that they were all gone!

So, 'my' blanket:  It is folded and left over the arm on the sofa.  When I saw my lodger using it I was perturbed as she had it tucked around her feet and way up around her face.  I don't know why I feel like this, but it is like she is being too personal with it .... sorry, can't explain my rationale any better. 

Now, after reading the replies so far, am I acting in a PA way by moving the blanket and only bringing it to the living room while I'm wanting to watch TV, so she doesn't have access to it.  Part of me says it's OK not to share BUT another part is saying don't be petty :(. 

Any further advice guys?

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to share your blanket. However, you say yourself that you own everything in the common areas, which she is expected to share (e.g. furnishings, kitchen equipment, etc.) and the blanket is kept out in the common area. So how would your lodger know that this particular item in the common areas is off-limits? I think either keeping the blanket in your room when you're not actively using it or informing the lodger that you'd prefer that she not use that blanket would be fine. You just need to do something to make it clear that the blanket isn't for communal use, since there's no way for her to know otherwise.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: MariaE on April 22, 2013, 03:29:51 AM
She's paying for the right to use the common space (the living room).  Since you have the space furnished, and it's not like she has the option of putting all the furnishings away and pulling out her own whenever she wants to use it, I think it's reasonable to assume she's paying for the right to use the furnishings as well.  If it were me, I would assume that I could use anything other than personal or hygiene items - and I wouldn't think twice about using a blanket if it were left on the sofa.  (That's "using it while actually sitting on that sofa" - taking the blanket back to my room, building a pillow fort with it, etc. would be stretching reasonableness.)

This. If I'm allowed to use a sofa, and a blanket is left, folded (i.e. "not currently in use") on that sofa, I would assume I was allowed to use that blanket as well, and that it did, in fact, go with the use of the sofa.

If you don't want her to use the blanket, you'll need to either tell her, or move it to your room when you're not using it yourself. That's not PA at all :)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Raintree on April 22, 2013, 03:59:54 AM
I agree with the posters that said if it's on the sofa, it appears to be fair game. At least, that is what I would assume, ie that it's for use with the sofa.

I see nothing wrong with you not wanting her to use it though, but she can't possibly know that, so I think it's fine to keep it in your bedroom or say to her, "Oh, if you're looking for a blanket, do you mind using this other one instead? This one is my personal one."

The headache pills would be annoying. I had a lodger in my apartment (ie, I rented the apartment, and rented the spare room, with furnishings, to her for a few months while she studied in town). I liked to keep a good supply of feminine products in the bathroom, for myself, because, you know, it's a real bummer to find yourself caught short in the middle of the night. She asked if she could use one or two, and I said sure. Then the next time I went to retrieve some for myself, I found the box nearly empty! I was so annoyed. I did say something to her (politely, I think) and she said, "But I only used like a couple!" No, she used more than a couple, because I had a full box in there!

At the very least, the lodger should have said something: "I used some more of your headache pills; I hope you don't mind. You're running low so I will replace the bottle." Some of us like to keep things on hand for those emergencies that arise, and stock up ahead of time. There is another type of person that only notices the empty container when they need it in the middle of the night.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: kherbert05 on April 22, 2013, 05:15:10 PM
I get the blanket being special. I would move it into your room - but if it is cold in the room I would put a different blanket out there for common use.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: SiotehCat on April 22, 2013, 05:24:13 PM
I keep a couple of small blankets on the corners of each of my couches. One of my blankets is a hand crotched blanket that I bought at a farmers market. I keep the blankets mostly for my cats, but also so that anyone can use them when they are watching television.

My mother does the same thing.

I always just thought that is what they were there for.

Having said that, maybe I would feel differently if I had crotched it myself. In that case, I agree with previous posters about putting it in your private space.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Moray on April 22, 2013, 05:45:58 PM
I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption to think that a non-consumable household good in a common area would be okay for household use. If she's told "hands off!" of course that should be respected, but generally, couches are to sit on, lamps are for giving light, and blankets/throws left on the couch are for warmth :)

If the blanket is very special, it would be best to keep it in a private part of the home and bring it out for your own personal use.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: EllenS on April 22, 2013, 05:48:20 PM
I can certainly understand not wanting a special item to be used communally, and you don't have to justify that.  I think the graceful thing to do would be to leave a different blanket on the sofa that you don't mind her using, and bringing out your blanket when you want to use it.  That would not be PA.

It's a tough thing to live with other people in the best of circumstances, and it sounds like you are both still finding your feet in this situation.

I think this would be a nice way to handle it.  It is certainly OK to have special things for yourself, but you don't want to be nitpicking at her about not touching things that she doesn't know are off - limits.

Setting reasonable boundaries without going off the deep end in the other direction, is a tough balancing act.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 22, 2013, 05:53:54 PM
I can certainly understand not wanting a special item to be used communally, and you don't have to justify that.  I think the graceful thing to do would be to leave a different blanket on the sofa that you don't mind her using, and bringing out your blanket when you want to use it.  That would not be PA.

It's a tough thing to live with other people in the best of circumstances, and it sounds like you are both still finding your feet in this situation.

I think this would be a nice way to handle it.  It is certainly OK to have special things for yourself, but you don't want to be nitpicking at her about not touching things that she doesn't know are off - limits.

Setting reasonable boundaries without going off the deep end in the other direction, is a tough balancing act.

This. I don't think you can complain if you've never told her to not use it. You can complain once you tell her and she still uses it.

"Lodger, I'm a bit picky about that blanket and prefer no one but me to use it. Would you mind using the one from your bed or this one?"

for what it's worth, we keep about 6 throws in our family room and all of us just grab one to use. They all look similar and I have to really pay attention to tell which is which. Except DD. She has hers that she doesn't want others using and we respect that. Unless she leaves it on the chair and then if I sit down, I'll use it because I'm not paying attention that it is "hers". So if you do offer up a different throw, make sure it is very different from yours.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 22, 2013, 05:59:39 PM
Thank all for your replies.  I am feeling a rather childish now regarding the blanket and I realise that it just caught me by surprise when I saw lodger sitting with it wrapped so closely to her face. I've never considered myself a germaphobe before ;(.

Tonight there will be a blanket 'ceremony' ... the forecast is for a cooler wetter day today .... so the timing should be perfect.  I will hand my son his blanket, which is still stored in the hall cupboard, and also hand one to lodger and mention that it is her special TV watching snuggling blanket to use while she lives with us.  My personal blanket will be left folded in a cane basket on the floor making it less accessible than it was. Lodger's blanket can be kept on the sofa within easy reach.  Maybe lodger will conclude that I am really a caring thoughtful person .... as i try to be.

Thanks again for your lovely tactful and understanding replies :)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Moray on April 22, 2013, 06:05:51 PM
Thank all for your replies.  I am feeling a rather childish now regarding the blanket and I realise that it just caught me by surprise when I saw lodger sitting with it wrapped so closely to her face. I've never considered myself a germaphobe before ;(.

Tonight there will be a blanket 'ceremony' ... the forecast is for a cooler wetter day today .... so the timing should be perfect.  I will hand my son his blanket, which is still stored in the hall cupboard, and also hand one to lodger and mention that it is her special TV watching snuggling blanket to use while she lives with us.  My personal blanket will be left folded in a cane basket on the floor making it less accessible than it was. Lodger's blanket can be kept on the sofa within easy reach.  Maybe lodger will conclude that I am really a caring thoughtful person .... as i try to be.

Thanks again for your lovely tactful and understanding replies :)

Maybe just stick with "Hey, I know son and I each have our own, personal blankets, thought you might want one too."? You'd have to tread pretty carefuly with your tone not to come off as overly cutesy, almost condescending, with the "special TV watching snuggling blanket". A special ceremony would put me right off, especially if you'd never mentioned that you had a problem with her using it.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 22, 2013, 06:18:59 PM
Ceremony was tic.  What will happen .... when it gets colder I will go to cupboard and bring out blankets .... throw son his and hand boarder hers mentioning it is for her to use ... I think she will get the point about only snuggling with your own blanket rather than whichever one is handy.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 22, 2013, 06:38:51 PM
Quote
Maybe just stick with "Hey, I know son and I each have our own, personal blankets, thought you might want one too."? You'd have to tread pretty carefuly with your tone not to come off as overly cutesy, almost condescending, with the "special TV watching snuggling blanket". A special ceremony would put me right off, especially if you'd never mentioned that you had a problem with her using it.

Yeah.  That post kinda struck me as off as well.  Cutesy and kinda offensive-sounding.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DavidH on April 22, 2013, 07:08:20 PM
I get that you are trying to avoid saying anything, but I'd be kind of surprised that she would interpret your idea as also making your blanket off limits.  It relies on her interpreting your handing her a blanket as "Cuddlepie is always very PA, so what's the hidden meaning behind the seemingly nice gesture of handing me a blanket...I get it, she really means don't use her special blanket."

A much better way to achieve the result you want it saying here's a blanket for you to use, please don't use mine, I'm funny about things like that.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Surianne on April 22, 2013, 08:34:44 PM
I get that you are trying to avoid saying anything, but I'd be kind of surprised that she would interpret your idea as also making your blanket off limits.  It relies on her interpreting your handing her a blanket as "Cuddlepie is always very PA, so what's the hidden meaning behind the seemingly nice gesture of handing me a blanket...I get it, she really means don't use her special blanket."

A much better way to achieve the result you want it saying here's a blanket for you to use, please don't use mine, I'm funny about things like that.

I agree.  I think your two reasonable options are:

1) If you don't want to say anything, put your blanket away in your bedroom, and leave a different one out on the couch that you're comfortable with her using.

2) Tell her directly that you'd prefer she use a different blanket, making it clear that it's your "quirk" rather than anything she's done wrong.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Bijou on April 22, 2013, 08:46:29 PM
 :o  I would feel the same way you do about it.  What she did with the blanket is odd, to me.  I would never do that.  Nor would I use your aspirin without you giving one to me.  Someone's feet and face on my blanket?  Ugh.  A little too close for comfort.
You may just want to keep it in your room. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: miranova on April 22, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
While it is your home, there are still certain inconveniences that come from having a lodger/renter in it.  It is not an ideal situation, it is one that you are presumably both in for financial reasons.  Differences will arise, and to be honest this one seems relatively minor in the scheme of things.  By that I don't mean that you are wrong for not wanting her to use your blanket.  It's a perfectly reasonable thing to want.  I just mean that when any two adults live in the same home, these things crop up and this one is relatively easy to solve.  As other posters have said, just leave a blanket (or two) out there that you wouldn't mind her using and keep your special one in your own personal space.

You can't always expect that others will know what will irritate you.  Heck, I've lived with my husband for years and we are still educating each other on things that irritate us!  If you are going to need a lodger long term, I think I'd change your perspective and realize it really could be much much worse.  The issues you are having are fixable and not severe.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 23, 2013, 09:52:46 AM
I would assume it if was in the common areas and not an obviously personal item (ie toiletries or clothing) that it would be ok for me to use.

If you want to keep that particular blanket for youself, i would consider keeping one out for her to use, and telling her that you prefer that one, so you've brought her one out to use.

You're in a difficult situation.  As a lodger, you need to decide what is reasonable for her to use without asking, and what isn't, and maybe give her some guidelines.  I wouldn't have anticipated a problem if I was her.

I would assume that the blanket was available for anyone who was allowed to use the living room.

But you know what? It doesn't matter. Just say, "You know, I'm sort of attached to that blanket, it's special to me, and I don't want to share it. If you'd like to have a blanket here in the living room, you should bring one of your own out and leave it here. Also, please be sure your guests don't use it. If you're having company, help me remember to put it in my room, okay?"

I might also have assumed that the OK for headache tablets meant other days too, but then I would *also* assume that meant I needed to buy the next batch when they were getting low. (At the very least, I'd need to alert you, but I'd also think I needed to pitch in monetarily.) I might think they were "household" stuff now, but I'd think I needed to buy it.

Did you ever say anything about the headache tablets? You are allowed to, even now, and you should have then. You don't need to get mad about it--just be matter-of-fact. Assume that she's a reasonable person and just spaced out. So say: "I saw that you had used up the headache tablets. If you're going to use them, you need to replace them when they run out. They're not covered in your rent, and you'll need to replace what you use up."

or say, "I saw that you had used up the headache tablets. I was willing to give you one in a pinch, since you didn't have your own that first night. But I expected you to purchase your own supply the next day. I do not want to share medications and other things like that. So please buy your own bottle, and then let me take a few to replace the ones you used up."

Speak up! Speak up before you get really mad. (OK, maybe you're miffed right away--I would be, probably.)

Be straightforward. To help you keep from being unpleasant/attacking/whatever in your tone of voice (and making things worse), try to get into the mindset that you're informing her, not scolding her.

It might help to remember that yes, some of us do think that the assumptions wasn't THAT far off. So she's not that horribly "entitled," but you *do* want to establish boundaries. You're entitled to.

But you should ALSO be direct. No hinting. Say, "I don't want other people to use my special blanket." Then you can also say, "here's one you can use for the time you're living here," or you can say, "You'll need to get your own."

But a boundary is *clearly drawn*. It is not hinted at. "Good fences make good neighbors," and a good fence is VERY VISIBLE. It's not hinted it. It's right there, crisp and clear. It's not nasty or mean, either. It's just there.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Judah on April 23, 2013, 10:14:20 AM
I get that you are trying to avoid saying anything, but I'd be kind of surprised that she would interpret your idea as also making your blanket off limits.  It relies on her interpreting your handing her a blanket as "Cuddlepie is always very PA, so what's the hidden meaning behind the seemingly nice gesture of handing me a blanket...I get it, she really means don't use her special blanket."

A much better way to achieve the result you want it saying here's a blanket for you to use, please don't use mine, I'm funny about things like that.

I agree.  I think your two reasonable options are:

1) If you don't want to say anything, put your blanket away in your bedroom, and leave a different one out on the couch that you're comfortable with her using.

2) Tell her directly that you'd prefer she use a different blanket, making it clear that it's your "quirk" rather than anything she's done wrong.

I agree. Don't hint at what you want, people don't get hints. Either tell her the blanket is for your use only, or put it where she can't get to it.  I wouldn't interpret your ceremony as meaning I wasn't to use your blanket and that's my point. People shouldn't have to interpret, your intentions should be clearly laid out.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Margo on April 23, 2013, 01:24:22 PM
I would assume it if was in the common areas and not an obviously personal item (ie toiletries or clothing) that it would be ok for me to use.

If you want to keep that particular blanket for youself, i would consider keeping one out for her to use, and telling her that you prefer that one, so you've brought her one out to use.

You're in a difficult situation.  As a lodger, you need to decide what is reasonable for her to use without asking, and what isn't, and maybe give her some guidelines.  I wouldn't have anticipated a problem if I was her.

I would assume that the blanket was available for anyone who was allowed to use the living room.

But you know what? It doesn't matter. Just say, "You know, I'm sort of attached to that blanket, it's special to me, and I don't want to share it. If you'd like to have a blanket here in the living room, you should bring one of your own out and leave it here. Also, please be sure your guests don't use it. If you're having company, help me remember to put it in my room, okay?"

I might also have assumed that the OK for headache tablets meant other days too, but then I would *also* assume that meant I needed to buy the next batch when they were getting low. (At the very least, I'd need to alert you, but I'd also think I needed to pitch in monetarily.) I might think they were "household" stuff now, but I'd think I needed to buy it.

Did you ever say anything about the headache tablets? You are allowed to, even now, and you should have then. You don't need to get mad about it--just be matter-of-fact. Assume that she's a reasonable person and just spaced out. So say: "I saw that you had used up the headache tablets. If you're going to use them, you need to replace them when they run out. They're not covered in your rent, and you'll need to replace what you use up."

or say, "I saw that you had used up the headache tablets. I was willing to give you one in a pinch, since you didn't have your own that first night. But I expected you to purchase your own supply the next day. I do not want to share medications and other things like that. So please buy your own bottle, and then let me take a few to replace the ones you used up."

Speak up! Speak up before you get really mad. (OK, maybe you're miffed right away--I would be, probably.)

Be straightforward. To help you keep from being unpleasant/attacking/whatever in your tone of voice (and making things worse), try to get into the mindset that you're informing her, not scolding her.

It might help to remember that yes, some of us do think that the assumptions wasn't THAT far off. So she's not that horribly "entitled," but you *do* want to establish boundaries. You're entitled to.

But you should ALSO be direct. No hinting. Say, "I don't want other people to use my special blanket." Then you can also say, "here's one you can use for the time you're living here," or you can say, "You'll need to get your own."

But a boundary is *clearly drawn*. It is not hinted at. "Good fences make good neighbors," and a good fence is VERY VISIBLE. It's not hinted it. It's right there, crisp and clear. It's not nasty or mean, either. It's just there.

POD

In her situation, I would not automatically assume that you giving me a blanket meant yours was off limits. I'd think "How kind, she noticed I was cold" And I would really appreciate you telling me that you preferred me not to use your blanket, rather than leaving me picking up a vague sense that you were irritated but not knowing what I'd done wrong or how to fix it.

Same with the headache pills. Tell her you were a bit surprised she took more than one without mentioning it, ask her to replace them, and make it clear to her what you would like (i.e. whether you want her to not to use yours at all, or whether you're OK with it as long as she tells you, or whatever.)

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 23, 2013, 07:42:29 PM
OP here.

After updating you on the blanket solution, I am going to mention a couple of other issues that came up last night  :(.

The 3 of us sat down to enjoy a little TV and when I felt a little cool, I asked Lodger if she had a rug or would she like the use of one, albeit older and not as pretty as mine, while she lived here.  So during the conversation, discussing rugs, their patterns and colours, just normal chit chat, I casually mentioned that my son and I had the habit of using our own rugs as they had been made in a style and colour that we chose as being 'ours'.  Without making a big deal of not using my blanket, my expectations we made clear. I did well (IMHO), with help of e-hell perspectives which I really appreciate.

As I said in a previous post, things keeping cropping up that annoy me.  The first day Lodger moved in, I showed her where things that she may need were kept.  Lodger spilt water on the kitchen floor and proceeded to wipe it up with the tea towel.  Gross!  The laundry where the mop and bucket and cleaning rags is the room beside the kitchen. I am fairly certain she has seen me use these items when cleaning spills so I was rather taken aback.

After settling down with 'our rugs', Lodger mentioned that she was going to buy a heater for her room.  The house has ducted heating throughout and I keep the temp set at a reasonable but economical setting.  When I asked my she wanted a small heater in her room she said she was cold in the mornings.  Fair enough except she only wears light clothes and no jumper.   I agreed to the heater but mentioned that her board would be increased to cover the extra power bill.  Lodger then thought that wearing a jumper would be a good idea.  ::)

Please don't get the idea that I am a landlady from hell as I am far from it.  I bite my tongue on many small things (as I am sure that Lodger does too), I pick her up from the train station when she gets home late at night, I've driven her to the doctors, put away her dishes on occasion, bring in her washing so it doesn't get wet in the rain etc.

I agree with a PP that these are only small things to be bother about and I am really grateful that Lodger is quiet, doesn't smoke and seems to like my family and friends.   But, as another PP suggested I don't want these little annoyances to fester and am endeavouring the nip them in the bud in a non-confrontational, kindly and quiet way.  I have learned a lot of fantastic wording from reading e-hell for some time, that I have added to my repertoire.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 23, 2013, 08:05:11 PM
Quote
Lodger spilt water on the kitchen floor and proceeded to wipe it up with the tea towel.  Gross!

I think that might be a personal issue.  I do the same thing - and then it goes into the washer.  Since I know it's going to be sufficiently clean after I wash it - and my floor isn't that dirty - I've never had a problem with it.

If she'd put it back on the counter to be used, that's a different story.  But you didn't say that happened.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Jones on April 23, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
Quote
Lodger spilt water on the kitchen floor and proceeded to wipe it up with the tea towel.  Gross!

I think that might be a personal issue.  I do the same thing - and then it goes into the washer.  Since I know it's going to be sufficiently clean after I wash it - and my floor isn't that dirty - I've never had a problem with it.

If she'd put it back on the counter to be used, that's a different story.  But you didn't say that happened.

Glad it's not just me--my tea towels land on the floor, then in the hamper, on a regular basis.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Surianne on April 23, 2013, 09:20:14 PM
Hah, I was confused about the tea towel thing too -- isn't that what they're for, wiping up stuff?

Similarly the heater I don't see as a major issue.  She cleared it with you first and when you weren't okay with it, she agreed to put on additional clothing.  It's pretty normal for different people to prefer different temperatures for their bedrooms, and what may be economical to you may be too cold for her.  (I'm saying this as someone who loves a cold house -- when I lived with others, I had to compromise with them on the heat, even though it wasn't to my preference.  A space heater is much better than asking you to turn up the heat for the whole house.)

It does sound like you're nitpicking with her, and she's really not a bad lodger.  Maybe having a lodger isn't for you?  Or there's something about her personality that rubs you the wrong way?  Hard to say without knowing more about the relationship.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on April 23, 2013, 09:36:45 PM
Hah, I was confused about the tea towel thing too -- isn't that what they're for, wiping up stuff?

I get it. The tea towels ar for hands or dishes but rags are for floors. I am the same way so is much of my circle.

I agree with the approach of the heater too. She can have it but since this *will* coast the OP more in electric costs, the lodger should pay for those increased costs, the way I read the post the lodger seemed to think the OP would absorb the extra cost - hence when she was informed that she, the lodger would pay them, she agreed to a sweater. 

I do think the OP should have been more clear about the pills being a one time deal, but the fact that the lodger used them up and didn't say anything or replace them shows little consideration for the OP and her son - the OP needed them and they weren't there. ( How many can you use in a week??)

I'd be rethinking this lodger at this point.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 23, 2013, 09:47:07 PM
Quote
I agree with the approach of the heater too. She can have it but since this *will* coast the OP more in electric costs, the lodger should pay for those increased costs, the way I read the post the lodger seemed to think the OP would absorb the extra cost - hence when she was informed that she, the lodger would pay them, she agreed to a sweater.

I don't see a problem here (and was actually confused as to why it was a problem when the OP said it).

Had she insisted she was going to get a heater and wouldn't pay the cost, it'd be a problem. But, since most space heaters don't really add that much additional cost, I can see how she'd ask and see if it's be a problem. She decided, after talking to the OP, that she'd just wear a sweater. No problem

It sounds to me that this is just someone the OP isn't fond of and the OP is just getting irked by things that probably wouldn't be an issue with someone else. Nothing this lodger has done in this thread is horrible or shocking.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: sevenday on April 23, 2013, 10:06:35 PM
Things that have sentimental meaning are hard for other people to handle.  I still remember the flare of anger I felt one day last year.  My service dog died almost two years ago.  He had a large pillow on the floor in the living room that I couldn't bear to get rid of.  Some time later, my roommate moved the pillow for some reason that I don't remember now.  I remember coming home and seeing that it had been moved and feeling immediate anger.  I was shocked at the visceral response and had to sit down to think about it before doing anything.

Vis a vis that special blanket, putting it in a special basket by itself and providing a separate one for communal (i.e. lodger) use is the best option.  I wasn't sure if you'd already told the lodger that this blanket has special meaning to you and that you'd prefer she use something else - but I don't think there's any harm in telling her that.  As long as there IS something she can use. 

And your comment about her needing to pay a bit more for power if she used a space heater was not out of line.  Sure, the newer ones don't draw too much electricity - but they do, so asking her to pay the difference isn't wrong. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: MariaE on April 24, 2013, 02:30:35 AM
Quote
Lodger spilt water on the kitchen floor and proceeded to wipe it up with the tea towel.  Gross!

I think that might be a personal issue.  I do the same thing - and then it goes into the washer.  Since I know it's going to be sufficiently clean after I wash it - and my floor isn't that dirty - I've never had a problem with it.

If she'd put it back on the counter to be used, that's a different story.  But you didn't say that happened.

I agree. Wouldn't be an issue for me either, assuming she threw it straight in with the other dirty laundry.

I don't see a problem with the heater either, because she made an effort to clear it with you first. Had she just gone out to buy one, or insisted on getting one while refusing to pay extra, it would be different, but as it is it seems like a reasonable request and response.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: CrochetFanatic on April 24, 2013, 02:59:30 AM
I think I must be the oddball when it comes to blankets draped over the back or the arm of the couch.  I've always assumed that they were there for decoration when staying at someone else's house, and haven't touched them.  I would have been annoyed to the point of seething if a guest used my blanket without asking if I minded, or finished off my headache pills.  Then again, I'm oddly territorial when it comes to 'my' things, and I probably would have said nothing and put what I didn't want touched in my room. 

I agree, communication is key.  If you ask her nicely not to do something, and she continues, then there is a problem.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Knitterly on April 24, 2013, 07:36:10 AM
Thank you for the replies and your perspectives.

To clarify:  This is my home.  Everything is in my name and I own the furniture, kitchen equipment, well.... everything in the unit.  Lodger pays to use her room and en-suite bathroom but shares the kitchen and living area with me and my son.  She owns nothing that we share. According to local law, I can make the rules for the house and a lodger virtually has little rights. Lodgers can be asked to move out without notice, not that I would do that).  So as Nyachan said, it is a business relationship, friendly but nonetheless a business relationship.  The pill issue had been handled tactfully (thanks e-hell :) ) when I discovered that they were all gone!

So, 'my' blanket:  It is folded and left over the arm on the sofa.  When I saw my lodger using it I was perturbed as she had it tucked around her feet and way up around her face.  I don't know why I feel like this, but it is like she is being too personal with it .... sorry, can't explain my rationale any better. 

Now, after reading the replies so far, am I acting in a PA way by moving the blanket and only bringing it to the living room while I'm wanting to watch TV, so she doesn't have access to it.  Part of me says it's OK not to share BUT another part is saying don't be petty :(. 

Any further advice guys?

As a knitter and crocheter who assigns a high value to such items....

The fact that it is lying on the arm of the sofa makes it as much fair game as the sofa itself.

Quote
Lodger spilt water on the kitchen floor and proceeded to wipe it up with the tea towel.  Gross!

I think that might be a personal issue.  I do the same thing - and then it goes into the washer.  Since I know it's going to be sufficiently clean after I wash it - and my floor isn't that dirty - I've never had a problem with it.

If she'd put it back on the counter to be used, that's a different story.  But you didn't say that happened.

Glad it's not just me--my tea towels land on the floor, then in the hamper, on a regular basis.
As do I.
If there's a tea towel that has been used a few times and I spill something on the floor, I use the partly dirty towel to wipe up the spill and then toss it in the wash.
Also, as a general rule, I have 2 or 3 towels out at once.  One for drying dishes, one for drying freshly washed fruits and veggies, and one for wiping my hands (rather than washing all 3 every week, the hand and fruit towels gets washed and the dish drying towel becomes the new hand towel).

OP, it does sound a little bit like you're nitpicking, but it also sounds like this lodger is new and you're both getting used to each other.  For that reason, I think it is good to politely address situations that bother you as they arise as you have been doing.  All the situations that you have mentioned sound like they are just small differences in lifestyle.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: SiotehCat on April 24, 2013, 08:06:42 AM
How much would a small space heater only used in the mornings add to the electric bill?

Would you charge extra if she used a blow dryer or curling/flat iron in the mornings? What about a computer or an alarm clock?

Was there a discussion about how many things she could have plugged in?

I also feel like you are nitpicking with his lodger. If her being there bothers you, why not just ask her to leave. With notice, of course.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: bopper on April 24, 2013, 08:26:02 AM
We have an exchange student and sometimes my daughter gets annoyed when she uses stuff that is out in the common area.  I tell her if you don't want her to use it, put it in your room.  For the specific blankie issue, my daughter has a snuggie and our student was using it. Our solution was to get student her own snuggie.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 24, 2013, 08:50:57 AM
We use tea towels on the floor and then throw in the wash all the time. I don't think you should just assume she sees it as gross too or that she has noticed what type of rags you use when cleaning.

On the heater, as a lodger I'd be rather put out that you kept the heat at an "economical" level to the point that required me to wear extra clothing. Or that you felt it any of your business what I wear in my bedroom.

I don't think your the evil landlady, but I do think you just assume others have very similar habits as yourself and are unwilling to clearly communicate your preferred rules.

Just in these posts, you've:
-Hinted about her not using your throw
-Assumed she pays attention to your cleaning regiment instead of saying "I store rags here and want them used on the floor only. I don't want tea towels used on floor."
-Assumed that she understood that you intentionally keep the heat low and that it wasn't just her room that was kept at a level requiring me to wear a sweater or sleep in additional clothing.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Margo on April 24, 2013, 09:12:45 AM
I don't think that you are nit-picking, in that I think your concerns are valid ones, but I do think you need to communicate more clearly and directly.

I get that 'just mentioning' things feels less 'naggy' than coming out and saying it, but at the same time I think it runs the risk of the other person not remermbering, or not realising thow importnat the issue was to you.

The heater issue you seem to have manged well - you agreed to her request, told her what the conditions were, and she has chosen to try a different solution, which is fine.

The tea-towel - I think you need to speak directly.
"I noticed that you'd mopped up using the tea towel - I appreciate you clearing up your spill and I realize that in an emergency it's natural to use the thing nearest, but I really don't like having tea-towels / clothes used on surfaces used on the floor.  I'm sorry, I probably didn't explain that before. The mop / floor cloths are kept here .  New washing up clothes are here." you can also take the opportunity to tell her any other routines you have (e.g. do clothes used for wiping kitchen surfaces become floor clothes when they are past their prime, or do you colour code and never mix the two?  Do you want her to tell you / add a note to the shopping list on the fridge if she takes the last cloth out of the package?  Are cleaning clothes for the bathroom stored there or in the kitchen, and do you have any rules / preferences about them?)

And consider asking your lodger for suggestions - she may have preferences too, and a little bit of give-and-take might make it easier for both of you- you'll feel less like you are nagging, and it gives her the chance to raise it f there are any things which are irritating her.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Ilovemygeek on April 24, 2013, 10:35:17 AM
I'd just get a cheap soft blankie to keep in the living room and keep your special one in your room. That's what I do in my house with my favorite blankets that I don't want the kiddos to dribble juice on, etc.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: saki on April 24, 2013, 10:53:29 AM
How much would a small space heater only used in the mornings add to the electric bill?

Would you charge extra if she used a blow dryer or curling/flat iron in the mornings? What about a computer or an alarm clock?

Was there a discussion about how many things she could have plugged in?


I agree.  In all honesty, I wouldn't have even asked you about the space heater, I would assume that I was ok to plug in whatever I wanted (within reason). 

I hate sharing accommodation with others (apart from my husband, obviously), really hate it, because I like my own space and my own things and I like to have things the way I like them - e.g. my house is well heated (22/23 degrees C) because I hate being cold.  But the fact is that, when you're sharing a home with others, you have to give and take.  You can't control everything that they do.  If you like her, on balance, you need to cut her some slack.  If, on balance, you think you can find a lodger who would be a better fit, do that.  But you can't keep nit picking every single thing she says or does, it won't end well.

I don't say this to be critical - I really do understand that it's not easy to share space with others.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on April 24, 2013, 10:59:30 AM
How much would a small space heater only used in the mornings add to the electric bill?    It really depends on the model and what "Just in the mornings" means, too. But It could add up to quite a bit. And the OP says with this lodger that if you give her an inch, she'll take a mile, so there is a potential for it to be more than "Just mornings".

Would you charge extra if she used a blow dryer or curling/flat iron in the mornings? What about a computer or an alarm clock? I would have told her that she is responsible for any increase in the utilities and be done with it. But yes, if she caused a significant increase in my bill she'd be the one paying it.

Was there a discussion about how many things she could have plugged in? This might be a good thing to do, with your other expectations.

I also feel like you are nitpicking with his lodger. If her being there bothers you, why not just ask her to leave. With notice, of course.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Two Ravens on April 24, 2013, 11:04:00 AM
How much would a small space heater only used in the mornings add to the electric bill?

Would you charge extra if she used a blow dryer or curling/flat iron in the mornings? What about a computer or an alarm clock?

Was there a discussion about how many things she could have plugged in?

I also feel like you are nitpicking with his lodger. If her being there bothers you, why not just ask her to leave. With notice, of course.

I agree. When I had roommate, I had a space heater in my room because it was over the porch and quite drafty in the winter. I would have been shocked to ask to pay extra.

I think she would be within her rights to have you turn the heat up in the mornings, but instead, she tried not to affect you.

If your lodger was running a fan in the summer months, would you ask her to pay extra for that too?

It seems like you are looking for things to complain about with this lodger.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 24, 2013, 11:10:56 AM
Quote
And consider asking your lodger for suggestions - she may have preferences too, and a little bit of give-and-take might make it easier for both of you- you'll feel less like you are nagging, and it gives her the chance to raise it f there are any things which are irritating her.

Really, really love this advice.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 24, 2013, 11:12:17 AM
Quote
In all honesty, I wouldn't have even asked you about the space heater, I would assume that I was ok to plug in whatever I wanted (within reason).

I have to be completely honest.  I wouldn't have asked, either.  The amount of energy it would take would be so negligible that it wouldn't have occurred to me that I'd need to ask permission.

It'd be the same as asking if I could use my curling iron in the morning.  The energy requirement would be the same, and it wouldn't even occur to me that someone would have a problem with it.
 
ETA:  Just saw the post asking about a fan in the summer.  Same thing.  In fact, because where I am, that would be a more likely scenario than needing a heater, I can respond to it more easily.  I can, absolutely guarantee I wouldn't ask for permission to use something like that in my room.  I'd see that as a necessity and wouldn't ask permission to use it.  I'd see that as part of the need to live in your home.  If you're choosing to keep the temp at a certain spot all the time, it could be that I'd need to supplement to be comfortable in my own space - my own room.  I wouldn't ask you to change the temp that you like to have in your house, but I would find it necessary to do what I could to at least have one area in the place that was a comfortable temp for me as well.
 

 
 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Surianne on April 24, 2013, 11:44:42 AM
Quote
In all honesty, I wouldn't have even asked you about the space heater, I would assume that I was ok to plug in whatever I wanted (within reason).

I have to be completely honest.  I wouldn't have asked, either.  The amount of energy it would take would be so negligible that it wouldn't have occurred to me that I'd need to ask permission.

It'd be the same as asking if I could use my curling iron in the morning.  The energy requirement would be the same, and it wouldn't even occur to me that someone would have a problem with it.
 
ETA:  Just saw the post asking about a fan in the summer.  Same thing.  In fact, because where I am, that would be a more likely scenario than needing a heater, I can respond to it more easily.  I can, absolutely guarantee I wouldn't ask for permission to use something like that in my room.  I'd see that as a necessity and wouldn't ask permission to use it.  I'd see that as part of the need to live in your home.  If you're choosing to keep the temp at a certain spot all the time, it could be that I'd need to supplement to be comfortable in my own space - my own room.  I wouldn't ask you to change the temp that you like to have in your house, but I would find it necessary to do what I could to at least have one area in the place that was a comfortable temp for me as well.

Yeah, the only time I would ask about something like that is if it's specified in the lease -- I've seen some that state the tenant must ask before adding appliances such as heaters, window air conditioners, small fridges, dehumidifiers, etc.  If it's not in the lease, it's usually fair game.  The lodger was being pretty considerate in checking with you.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: datcat on April 24, 2013, 11:59:19 AM
I may be utterly wrong, but I get the feeling that the OP is from the UK and if so energy bills do tend to be slightly higher so I cannot blame her for asking for a small contribution.

In my household too tea towels are for dishes and for spills on a counter I use a dishcloth and for floors I use a floor cloth.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Eeep! on April 24, 2013, 12:06:39 PM
Quote
In all honesty, I wouldn't have even asked you about the space heater, I would assume that I was ok to plug in whatever I wanted (within reason).

I have to be completely honest.  I wouldn't have asked, either.  The amount of energy it would take would be so negligible that it wouldn't have occurred to me that I'd need to ask permission.

It'd be the same as asking if I could use my curling iron in the morning.  The energy requirement would be the same, and it wouldn't even occur to me that someone would have a problem with it.
 
ETA:  Just saw the post asking about a fan in the summer.  Same thing.  In fact, because where I am, that would be a more likely scenario than needing a heater, I can respond to it more easily.  I can, absolutely guarantee I wouldn't ask for permission to use something like that in my room.  I'd see that as a necessity and wouldn't ask permission to use it.  I'd see that as part of the need to live in your home.  If you're choosing to keep the temp at a certain spot all the time, it could be that I'd need to supplement to be comfortable in my own space - my own room.  I wouldn't ask you to change the temp that you like to have in your house, but I would find it necessary to do what I could to at least have one area in the place that was a comfortable temp for me as well.

Yeah, the only time I would ask about something like that is if it's specified in the lease -- I've seen some that state the tenant must ask before adding appliances such as heaters, window air conditioners, small fridges, dehumidifiers, etc.  If it's not in the lease, it's usually fair game.  The lodger was being pretty considerate in checking with you.

This is kind of where I fall with the heater issue.  I really can't imagine how you would even actually know what the resultant increase in electricity would be as it seems like it would be small enough to just fall into regular fluctuation. But based on terminology, I get the impression the OP is from outside the US so perhaps the electricity situation is different there? i would more want to be asked about someone having a heater for safety reasons, not monetary ones.  As a landlord that would be my possible concern about a space heater.

As to the original blanket question, I actually would never use a blanket without asking. But I don't think there is any problem either telling a tenant that the blanket is for your own use or putting it in your room. (I would probably do the former as I'm lazy. heh.)  It sounds like you covered that issue already though although in a still kind of round-about fashion, if I read it correctly.  I think I would probably just say "Oh, I forgot to mention, we kind of have our "own" blankets and that one is mine.  A little household quirk! Feel free to leave your own blanket out here though!" I really can't imagine most people getting upset about that.

I would have been bugged by the headache tablet though. 

Oh and we totally use dish clothes on the floor - that's the last part of their cycle.  First is just to dry nice clean dishes. Second is to dry off counters. Last stop to the washer is being used on the floor. :)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Moray on April 24, 2013, 12:14:36 PM
How much would a small space heater only used in the mornings add to the electric bill?

Would you charge extra if she used a blow dryer or curling/flat iron in the mornings? What about a computer or an alarm clock?

Was there a discussion about how many things she could have plugged in?

I also feel like you are nitpicking with his lodger. If her being there bothers you, why not just ask her to leave. With notice, of course.

I agree. When I had roommate, I had a space heater in my room because it was over the porch and quite drafty in the winter. I would have been shocked to ask to pay extra.

I think she would be within her rights to have you turn the heat up in the mornings, but instead, she tried not to affect you.

If your lodger was running a fan in the summer months, would you ask her to pay extra for that too?

It seems like you are looking for things to complain about with this lodger.

That's the vibe I get, too.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 24, 2013, 12:36:30 PM
Quote
Lodger spilt water on the kitchen floor and proceeded to wipe it up with the tea towel.  Gross!

I think that might be a personal issue.  I do the same thing - and then it goes into the washer.  Since I know it's going to be sufficiently clean after I wash it - and my floor isn't that dirty - I've never had a problem with it.

If she'd put it back on the counter to be used, that's a different story.  But you didn't say that happened.

I agree that this might seem a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

However, I *do* think it's completely fair for you to say, "Hey, please don't use the dish towel to mop up the floor. It squicks me out."

But I personally would say, "Please don't....because floor dirt is harder to get out, and when tea towels get stained, then it's hard to tell when they're clean." (But that's mostly because my floor isn't all that clean to begin with, and NYC dirt is particularly greasy and sooty.)

It's your house--you are entitled to tell her to not do the things that bother you. Just say it--straight-forward, matter-of-fact.

Approach every one of these as though they are simply things she didn't know. Like, maybe she doesn't know that the express bus stops running after 7pm--that sort of "didn't know." Just say, "I have a quirk--I'd rather you did that this way." THEN STOP TALKING.  That's what'll keep you from being a nag. Don't justify, argue, defend, explain. Because THAT is what will turn it into a naggy lecture.

One sentence. OK, OK, maybe three. "Oh, would you please not use the tea towels on the floor? It squicks me out. Here's the towels you can use."


(I also have what I call "trash towels"--old tea towels, marked in green Sharpie on every corner--that I use for wipe ups. I store them right next to the dish towels. A mop is hugely cumbersome and annoying when there's only 3 tablespoons or something. Consider that as a way to compromise. And as a way to *redirect* instead of just forbid--redirecting is often much more effective in terms of actually changing behavior.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 24, 2013, 12:37:35 PM
Quote
However, I *do* think it's completely fair for you to say, "Hey, please don't use the dish towel to mop up the floor. It squicks me out."

Sure.  That's reasonable.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: EMuir on April 24, 2013, 12:45:41 PM
A heater is something that I'd charge extra for.  And, the amount of wattage drawn by one might be an issue as well.  I bought a heater for one cold bedroom in my house.  We found out the hard way that there was a problem with the wiring along the way to that heater, but in another room (where's that burning smell coming from?).  The wiring was fine for small things, but a space heater draws a LOT more than a curling iron or hair dryer.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: saki on April 24, 2013, 12:51:21 PM
Quote
It's your house--you are entitled to tell her to not do the things that bother you. Just say it--straight-forward, matter-of-fact.

I'm not so sure about this.   I don't think it's reasonable to dictate how your lodger does every single little thing around the house.  In part because if you have 20 things that you tell her not to do every week, a) she's just going to stop listening to you because it will feel to her like there is no way she can win and b) it's going to create a really uncomfortable living atmosphere.

If you really must bring up these sorts of things - I suggest you impose on yourself some kind of limit.  E.g. you can make no more than 2 requests of this sort per week.  Not that you have to stick rigidly to this if she does three really egregious things in one week but it might help you to know when its sensible to stop and just bite your tongue.  And I would second the suggestion from someone else to ask her what she thinks and whether there's anything that you do that bothers her.

If you continue to be this uncomfortable sharing your space, though, you need to find a way not to need a lodger.  (For what it's worth, that's what I did.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 24, 2013, 02:15:56 PM
Quote
If you continue to be this uncomfortable sharing your space, though, you need to find a way not to need a lodger.

That's what I'm thinking.  Easier said than done, I know.

btw - regarding the original question about using OP's blanket, in the type of living arrangement described, I wouldn't have done it.  Or, I would have asked permission.  But (for me) using another person's blanket is kind of like using their bathrobe.  I'd just rather not.

I know someone who needed a temporary house-sharing living arrangement for a few months.  She visited several people in advance for a (mutual) “let’s get to know each other’s expectations and lifestyle” meeting.  One woman had a beautiful house, but she also had a long list of requirements and idiosyncrasies which seemed to be a bit much.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: camlan on April 24, 2013, 04:38:51 PM
Space heaters that use electricity are power hogs. They cost much more to run than a fan. Air conditioners also suck up the power. For example, I used to keep my whole house at 60 degrees (15 C). One room was heated to 65 for 4 hours every morning. That added an average of $40 a month to my electric bill. In my case, it was worth it, because doing this saved me a tank of oil a year, or about $450 vs. the $120 for three months of running the space heater 4 hours a day.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 24, 2013, 04:43:24 PM
Ok, then we're back to the fact that the lodger asked permission, was told of what would be required if she wanted a heater, decided she'd rather not have one after all and all is fine.

The lodger is still not doing anything wrong there.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question More info #68
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 24, 2013, 10:37:29 PM
OP again.  Even though my original question has been answered and issue now sorted with Lodger, it would be great if I could l draw out further opinions and perspectives.

There was no need for this further BG in my first post but it is relevant to the additional queries that posters asked, in particular the heater issue.

1.   First meeting before moving in:   
Lodger loved room and the convenient location but said she could not afford what I was asking.  I advertised slighter higher anticipating that a reduced amount would be asked for, but accepted less than I budget for from lodger.

After Lodger assured me that she does not use a lot of electricity and promised that she would be careful about leaving lights on, would not use the oven, did not take long hot showers and did not feel the cold so that heating bills would not increase by much at all, I agreed to an even lesser amount that I really wanted.  I liked her and also I felt sorry for her when she told me about her current horrendous living arrangements.

We discussed the how, whats, wheres and whys of us sharing and seemed like we were on the same page regarding cooking, cleaning, noise levels, internet usage, buying our own food, watching TV, having friends over etc.  I mentioned the complexes parking rules and no pet rule.

2.   Moving in day:     Lodger settled in on Saturday morning and advised me she could not pay rent for 2 more days. She was broke but her government allowance would be paid on the Monday.  Lodger was also too broke to pay a security bond, so I haven’t charged one.
Pointed out her spots in kitchen and laundry, and while we were in laundry the cleaning products, cleaning cloths, bucket and mops etc.

3.   First Weeks:
•Gave lodger 2 headache pills as she was broke and did not have money to buy some.  They are on my shelf in pantry.  Lodger took further pills (about 8 ) without asking, I came home one night with a terrible headache to find there were none left.  I checked that son hadn’t needed them, then confronted lodger who apologised but never replaced them.  (Since then, she accidently let it slip that she has bought some and keeps them in her handbag).

•Lodger finished the last of peanut butter and tomato sauce.  The first time she asked if she could have a little, then kept using without telling me.  Son and I don’t use them every day and therefore did not notice immediately.

I told Lodger that I was now no longer willing to let her share/borrow from our cupboard as it annoyed the heck out of me to want to have something, then find she had used all and on top of that, no even bothering to tell me.

•Mentioned she was going to buy a kitten for her aunt and uncle as a house-warming present.  The only problem was that aunt & uncle hadn’t even purchased their house yet and lodger intended to keep kitten with her until they did.  Lodger was a little miffed that I vetoed having kitten for a few months (even though I love kittens and would have enjoyed having it around) she didn’t consider it a pet because she wasn’t keeping it ... it was a gift. 

4.   At 1 month:    Lodger met male on internet and wanted him to sleep over 3-4 nights each week because it was more convenient for him.  I agreed to one lodger not two and even more important, Lodger had told me all about the types of men she went out with previously and the trouble they caused her!  So until, they have gone out for longer time and I know that he is a decent man, he will not be sleeping over.

5.   The heater issue – this week:  Firstly lodger did not ask permission, she was telling me she was going to buy a heater.  Sorry, I didn’t make that clear in my previous post. 

•Electricity prices have skyrocketed where I live.  Last winter I phoned my utility company regarding  running costs as I was investigating whether or not it was cheaper for me to use such a heater in the room I was using or use the gas ducted heating for the whole house.  Those little things draw a lot of power – not as cheap to run as one would think!

•Lodger has done a 180 on feeling cold and it has baffled me.  I remember her telling me she apparently can go outside in a light dress and thongs (Aussie footwear) and be comfortable while everyone else is rugged up in winter woollies, so as you can image I was rather surprised that lodger told me she was cold in the mornings.  She gets up at 8am or later and it’s been around 15 degrees (or 60 Fahrenheit)  the day usually warms up quickly – it’s not winter yet. 

•If she is cool, it is because she is not wearing a jumper – she comes into the kitchen wearing a strappy dress and her thongs.  Since she wanted to live with me, but asked for reduced board, she can’t have it both ways.  It is either she pays more and I turn up the ducted heating and I remove my coat or she lives with the temp I choose and she wears a coat. 

•In the wintertime.  Heating comes on if the temp dips below 10C overnight, then when I get up in the morning I crank it up to 21-22C (70 Fahrenheit) so the inside air is only cold for 5-10 minutes.  So, if lodger did not feel the cold, like she let me believe, I was prepared to turn down the heating and wearing a 2nd jumper rather than having Lodger feel hot all day, every day.

If I have given the impression that I pick on Lodger in person, I really don’t.  When she leaves her plates in the kitchen – I clean them and put away, I wipe the stove and microwave and fridge spills.  One of the major differences between lodgers & roommates is that lodgers don’t share the housework although they should clean up their mess in the kitchen when they cook for themselves.  If my lodger was paying the amount that I wanted, enough to cover the extra bills without any doubts, then her using or taking things like headache pills, and some food would not bother me one bit.
 
Putting this down in writing has been rather cathartic.....  and I have realised that Lodger has the tendency to say things that I shouldn’t rely on it being so.

Lots of virtual hugs if you have read all this.   My my, it’s sooo long.
I would love your thoughts and feedback.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: delabela on April 24, 2013, 11:12:18 PM
Well, it sounds to me like you got into a less than ideal situation.  I'm a lot like you - I'll give leeway I maybe shouldn't when I feel bad for someone.  I'm not sure of the length of your arrangement, but if you ever have another lodger, I would strongly suggest you view it as primarily a business relationship and stick to your guns when it comes to the amount of rent and boundaries around use of stuff.

As to what to do now, I think all you can do is keep politely declining to change the rules.  She has shown you if you let her use something once, she will consider it fair game.  So don't allow her to use something you don't intend to keep sharing.  I don't think that someone can tell another adult to go put on a sweater, but if the heat is at a reasonable level, you can certainly decline to turn it up. 

Good luck to you.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 24, 2013, 11:21:36 PM
One thing that I've taken from your story is that the minute I feel sorry for someone with whom I want to enter a business relationship, that's a bad thing.

It's almost a sign that I shouldn't proceed. Because the balance is off.

I wonder what would have happened if you hadn't been able to drop your price and she had moved on. Do you think you'd have found someone else?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on April 24, 2013, 11:24:41 PM
At this point I would be considering kicking her out. She lied to you, took advantage of you,, took things with out so much as letting you know they were gone, refuses to share ( or replace ) what she took and wants to break rules of the complex and add a second person to her arrangement.

  At the point where she got miffed at having to follow the no complex's no pet rule, I would have told her to find other lodgings, ASAP.

 When she had the nerve to broach bringing a roomie into the picture, I would have served her with an eviction notice. She is acting like this is her house, not yours.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Emmy on April 25, 2013, 05:55:01 AM
It sounds like lodger did the bait and switch, advertised herself to be one way to get a break in rent and then did a 180.  I think you need to give her notice she that it is time to go or renegotiate your contract.  Since your electric bills have increased due to her space heater and she is affected by the cold after all, charging a  fee for electric is fine.  If she wants to borrow something, let her know this is a one time thing and she is not free to continue to help herself.  I would also ask her to replace the peanut butter and other items she used up without your permission.  I also find it strange that she cries she is broke to the point where she can't buy her own medicine, but would have enough money to possibly buy and shelter a cat for several months.  I also find it unreasonable she got miffed at the 'no pet' rule.  Many people are allergic to pets, don't want their dander or hair all over the place, or to deal with possible damage they cause to furniture.  The fact that she would try to get you agree to something like that not in the contract, then be annoyed when you didn't bowl over to her wishes is quite rude.

Big things you might want to set a few house rules, but if it seems every little things drives you crazy (like the tea towels), maybe having a boarder isn't the best thing for you.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: saki on April 25, 2013, 06:21:45 AM

Just quickly on this point:

Quote
She gets up at 8am or later and it’s been around 15 degrees (or 60 Fahrenheit)  the day usually warms up quickly – it’s not winter yet. 


In the UK, 15 degrees C is below the recommended legal temprature for offices (16 degrees) - for me that would be absolutely freezing.  Having the heating set at 10 degrees C overnight in the winter would have me preparing to move out - just way too cold.  So, while you may be used to it, I do think it's worth bearing in mind that others may well find that unbearably cold.

On the other stuff - I can certainly see why you're annoyed by certain things, particularly the using up your stuff.  But I find it really odd that the thing that you complained about in your OP was her using your blanket when, really, she's done stuff that just seems much worse - e.g. not paying her rent on time.  It sort of suggests to me that, while she is not an angelic lodger or anything, you are also not well suited to having lodgers.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 25, 2013, 07:41:47 AM
Your follow up post indicates Lodger is a user. Is she young? Because it sounds like she wants you to be her mommy. I think as soon as she was able to negotiate you down in price and pull on your heart strings to let her move in two days early and to forgo a security deposit she decided there would be lots of leeway in getting her way. Reminds me of my 18 yr old DD.

In your position, I'd already be making sure Lodger was aware that at the end of your agreed upon contract, you'll be expecting her to leave. Don't clean up her messes anymore. Call her to come do them.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: bopper on April 25, 2013, 10:24:46 AM
We have an exchange student living with us and we found out quick that we have unwritten rules of our household and we had to be explicit with those rules. 

So you could say 'I never really noticed that we had unwritten rules about our household so I want to talk to you about some of them. I have written them so I could go over them with you.
Food:  Share condiments, otherwise each party gets there own food. Lodgers will have a cabinet and a shelf in the frig. dedicated to them.
Bathroom: No sharing of medication/toothpaste, shampoo, etc. Lodgers get a shelf in medicine cabinet.
Heat: The heat in the room shall be XX degrees.
Pets: no pets
Overnight guests: No overnight guests.
Cleaning:  All parties are to not leave dishes on the table and to not leave dishes in the sink.
...
Dishtowels:  The ones in the drawer are for dishes. The ones in the cabinet are rags and can be used for cleaning.
"

Re the blanket...get a cheap one (since there is coldness issues) for her and say that the hand knit one is special to you (an don't leave it on the sofa).

Re: the heat:  Tell her that you accepted less rent because she assured you that she would not use much electricity.  Heating prices have gone up and you yourself cannot afford it so you are conserving energy as well. If she wants to pay more to get unlimited electricity that is fine with you.

I agree that basically she is treating you like parents...they will pick up any slack.  You have to be a "mean mom" and ask her to clean up EVERYTIME.  I wonder if it woudl be good to also discuss expectations:  "Lodger, when I rented out a room to you, I meant for it to be mostly a room. Use of the kitchen is permitted, but it isn't a house sharing situation where you have equal status nor is it your parent's home where they clean up after you and you eat their food and use their toiletries.  You are an adult and I expect you to purchase your own items and keep to the contract you signed until the end of the contract time {here is where you are hinting that you are not renewing the contract}.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: daen on April 25, 2013, 01:47:41 PM
<snip>
On the other stuff - I can certainly see why you're annoyed by certain things, particularly the using up your stuff.  But I find it really odd that the thing that you complained about in your OP was her using your blanket when, really, she's done stuff that just seems much worse - e.g. not paying her rent on time.  It sort of suggests to me that, while she is not an angelic lodger or anything, you are also not well suited to having lodgers.

OP may not be well-suited to having lodgers, true. It's also possible that she has been dealing with enough irritations with this particular lodger that the use of the blanket pushed her over the edge and into posting. Further questions have brought other things to light.
 
(I have been known to begin by discussing a specific issue with a friend/advisor, and only realize later that what I thought was the issue is only the final straw, and the real issue is larger, deeper, and sometimes very different. YMMV, of course.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Janice on April 25, 2013, 02:30:05 PM
Not to stray into legal territory, but if you have a written contract with her, how much time is left on it? Does it lay out house rules specifically? If it's month to month, I'd give her 30 days notice (or whatever is required) and start actively looking for a new lodger if you need the $.

When communicating that she needs to move, I'd be clear and matter of fact. Ask her to sit down with you and have the contract in front of you. I might say something like:

"Lodger, when you moved in you agreed to X, Y and Z conditions. I've noticed recently that these are not being met, and that you have been taking A, B and C actions which are causing D E and F issues (heater costing additional money, overnight guests). Based on this, I feel that this arrangement is not working out, and I'm asking you to move out by X date."
 
And then be firm about any personal crisis or disaster that lodger comes up with to extend her stay. She needs to find another place to live, and that's it. Where she goes and the choices she made that landed her in a poor situation are not your responsibility. I wouldn't even negotiate for higher rent, if she says she's chronically broke.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 25, 2013, 03:02:23 PM
Agree with Janice.

If you give her notice to leave, don't "negotiate" an extension for any reason.

These situations are usually not easy.  Of course, we don't know her personality/temperment, and I hope it goes okay. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 25, 2013, 08:24:37 PM
OP here.

@ Sake.  Sounds like you really feel the cold and should you have been in lodger's shoes would not have taken the room or would agreed to pay the amount that would have covered any extra bills.

Lodger and I do not have a written agreement.  Lodgers can be asked to move without notice, but I would say it would be hard to have the law on your side, if you did not give reasonable notice unless the circumstances warranted such a drastic measure.  Tenants have rights but lodgers under the law have none.  Fair or not for lodgers, that is law where I live.
Lodger is in her early 20’s.  In the last couple of days, since starting this thread, I have come to the conclusion that the acronym FIGJAM describes her pretty well.  She is not evil, just young and full of herself  ::)  .    Lodger doesn't come across that she is deliberately misleading me ..... I just need to remember to take what she says with a grain of salt.  And following the advice given by many posters, that any communication from me is clear and unambiguous.

Rather than Lodger thinking that she has equal status (thanks Bopper for those words) but the upper hand.  I believe she thinks 1) that I am too soft-hearted to ask her to move and 2) that because I really need the extra income, she has the upper hand and I’m not in the position to ask her to move out, therefore she doesn’t consider that some things that she does may be annoying enough for me to do so, as she doesn’t think that I can or that I would. 
A little further info – not really relevant but may help you understand my situation.  At the moment I’m not working full time, but am earning enough to almost cover my living expenses. My mother has been diagnosed with dementia so I want fly interstate (2000kms) to visit her every few months.)

I appreciate all the advice and thoughts from everyone here on e-hell.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: katycoo on April 27, 2013, 01:13:31 AM
Edited due to above post from OP:  I would now put all that stuff discussed into writing.  NO make it a contract per se, just a record of what she's told you about as a reference point for your both.

Just quickly on this point:
Quote
She gets up at 8am or later and it’s been around 15 degrees (or 60 Fahrenheit)  the day usually warms up quickly – it’s not winter yet. 
In the UK, 15 degrees C is below the recommended legal temprature for offices (16 degrees) - for me that would be absolutely freezing.  Having the heating set at 10 degrees C overnight in the winter would have me preparing to move out - just way too cold.  So, while you may be used to it, I do think it's worth bearing in mind that others may well find that unbearably cold.

My office is 22 and sometimes its cold for me!  But the OP didn't say she SET the temp to 10, but that IF the ambient temperature dropped as low as 10, the heating would kick in.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 11:03:56 AM
Quote
I believe she thinks 1) that I am too ‘nice’ to ask her to move and 2) that because I really need the extra income, she has the upper hand and I’m not in the position to ask her to move out, therefore she doesn’t consider that some things that she does may be annoying enough for me to do so, as she doesn’t think that I can or that I would. 

OP, seems you’re putting a lot of energy into analyzing what you feel she thinks, and who may or may not have the upper hand.  Not saying there’s necessarily anything terribly wrong with that, but you may want to ask yourself if it’s really worth it (vs trying to find someone you'd be happier and more comfortable with) and establishing rules and expectations at the beginning.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Tea Drinker on April 27, 2013, 11:56:32 AM
Where i used to live, they're required to heat to 68 F (20 C) during the day if the outside temperature falls below 55 (call it 12C), and to 55 at night if it goes below 40 F (5 C). While that's reasonable for most people, some of us will need to wear sweaters, especially if we are out of bed after 10 pm (when the lower numbers apply). I have recently moved, and I now control the heat in my new apartment, and pay for it myself; next winter I am going to be warm. (I will also be able to control the heat in each room separately, so not pay to heat the library/spare bedroom as much when there's nobody in there, while still having the living room or bedroom nice and warm.

It's not unreasonable to have to wear a sweater sometimes, especially if that's the tradeoff for spending less for housing.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on April 27, 2013, 12:23:38 PM
Quote
I believe she thinks 1) that I am too ‘nice’ to ask her to move and 2) that because I really need the extra income, she has the upper hand and I’m not in the position to ask her to move out, therefore she doesn’t consider that some things that she does may be annoying enough for me to do so, as she doesn’t think that I can or that I would. 

OP, seems you’re putting a lot of energy into analyzing what you feel she thinks, and who may or may not have the upper hand.  Not saying there’s necessarily anything terribly wrong with that, but you may want to ask yourself if it’s really worth it (vs trying to find someone you'd be happier and more comfortable with) and establishing rules and expectations at the beginning.

Doesn't really take all that much energy IMO, plus in this case, it would be helpful for the OP to do it so that she can anticipate future problems and decide whether it is worth it for her to put up with it.  I think if OP had considered this information sooner, she might have been able to circumvent some of the problems she's had.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 27, 2013, 01:23:47 PM
Quote
I believe she thinks 1) that I am too ‘nice’ to ask her to move and 2) that because I really need the extra income, she has the upper hand and I’m not in the position to ask her to move out, therefore she doesn’t consider that some things that she does may be annoying enough for me to do so, as she doesn’t think that I can or that I would. 

OP, seems you’re putting a lot of energy into analyzing what you feel she thinks, and who may or may not have the upper hand.

Doesn't really take all that much energy IMO, plus in this case, it would be helpful for the OP to do it so that she can anticipate future problems and decide whether it is worth it for her to put up with it.  I think if OP had considered this information sooner, she might have been able to circumvent some of the problems she's had.

The thing is, "what she thinks the roommate feels" is not *information*--it's speculation.

My therapist told me that most of what we think isn't actually right, and that it's even less accurate when you're guessing about other people.

But I agree w/ reflection5--it may be worth it to simply end this arrangement and find another one that doesn't make the OP even NEED to put energy into analyzing what she believes the other person thinks.

And, again, this is proof of why it's a bad idea to put yourself in the position of "helping out" someone with whom you have a business relationship.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on April 27, 2013, 01:27:21 PM
Quote
I believe she thinks 1) that I am too ‘nice’ to ask her to move and 2) that because I really need the extra income, she has the upper hand and I’m not in the position to ask her to move out, therefore she doesn’t consider that some things that she does may be annoying enough for me to do so, as she doesn’t think that I can or that I would. 

OP, seems you’re putting a lot of energy into analyzing what you feel she thinks, and who may or may not have the upper hand.

Doesn't really take all that much energy IMO, plus in this case, it would be helpful for the OP to do it so that she can anticipate future problems and decide whether it is worth it for her to put up with it.  I think if OP had considered this information sooner, she might have been able to circumvent some of the problems she's had.

The thing is, "what she thinks the roommate feels" is not *information*--it's speculation.

My therapist told me that most of what we think isn't actually right, and that it's even less accurate when you're guessing about other people.

But I agree w/ reflection5--it may be worth it to simply end this arrangement and find another one that doesn't make the OP even NEED to put energy into analyzing what she believes the other person thinks.

And, again, this is proof of why it's a bad idea to put yourself in the position of "helping out" someone with whom you have a business relationship.

My take on it comes from looking at the interactions almost like a negotiation - it is important to keep in mind that the person you (general) are dealing with has their own interests and goals just as you do.  Thinking about what those interests and goals might be can help in interpreting their actions and words, as well as figuring out an arrangement that might suit both persons needs/wants. Or, in this case, determine that there is no mutually enjoyable arrangement to be had.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Quote
Doesn't really take all that much energy IMO,

Sometimes people put a lot of time and energy into speculating about what another person might be thinking and feeling, sometimes they don’t.  Speculations are just that - speculative. They can be on target or way off-base.  Whether it’s 15 seconds or a few hours a day, if one is not comfortable with a living arrangement such as is the case here, it might be better to channel that time and energy into finding a solution. - such as a different housemate or reassessment of finances so that having a roomer isn't necessary.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 27, 2013, 06:50:16 PM
The good thing (or possibly a bad thing) is posting for advice, receiving advice and then reflecting on that advice.  In reality, if I was not replying to posters, Lodger's overall behaviour would not have been thought about in such depth as it has been.  My original question was about me and my reaction, but that discussion and answers brought out other valid points to consider.

Re the heating:  It is recommended to keep heating set at 18C - 21C (approx 70F) during the day or the costs increase dramatically.  Most keep their heating at that, a few and only a few who really feel that cold have it set any higher than that.  It varies what happens overnight - is basically 50/50 - some turn heat off completely overnight, some do the same as me and only a few have it running at their preferred temp all day. Hey, this makes me normal, right?   ;D ;D

Did a favour for Lodger yesterday, she was grateful and thanked me but somethings she did (or rather didn't do) had me doing an eye-roll.  The outcome is, that her bridge is burnt, I will continue to be a decent landlady, but it will be strictly business, no more favours from me.  I am printing out some rules with consequences if they are not followed. She cooks for breakfast, lunch and dinner, does that right thing, washes her dirty pots and dishes but leaves them all on the drainer to dry.  This means that when I wash my dishes I either have to put hers away (which I do most of the time - if there is a huge amount I move them to the stovetop, then Lodger can't cook until she puts them away) or wash & dry my 1st item, wash and dry 2nd item etc.  Yes, in the beginning,  I did ask her to put the dishes away, she puts that lot away, then goes back to doing the same thing.  I scratched my head and took the path of least resistance but not any more .... there are written rules  >:(.



Edited to take out unnecessary capitals and include a missing word.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 07:23:32 PM
Quote
I am printing out some rules with consequences if they are not followed.

hmmm. 

OP, Please explain.  An example, maybe?  Thanks.


(No, the "hmmm" is not snark, so to anyone sitting on the sidelines ready to jump on me, please......let's not even go there.  "hmmm" simply means "okay, I'm rubbing my chin, thinking about this.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 27, 2013, 07:45:00 PM
Quote
I am printing out some rules with consequences if they are not followed.

hmmm. 

OP, Please explain.  An example, maybe?  Thanks.


(No, the "hmmm" is not snark, so to anyone sitting on the sidelines ready to jump on me, please......let's not even go there.  "hmmm" simply means "okay, I'm rubbing my chin, thinking about this.)

Rule #1:  Dishes to be washed and PUT AWAY so kitchen is available for next user, this includes the drainer.  In future, any pots and dishes left in drainer results in user waiting until last to use kitchen.

Rule #2:  When thawing meat in fridge - use a plate to catch drips.  Do not leave meat to thaw in dish drainer - use a plate to catch drips and leave on bench.  If unplated raw meat is left if fridge, the convenient 1/2 share of top and 2nd top shelves will be changed to you having to use the bottom shelf so blood does not drip into my food.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 08:35:55 PM
Cuddlepie, thanks for answering.  :)  I'm gonna do some more thinking.  Might be back.  Let's see what others have to say.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 27, 2013, 08:56:14 PM
Hi Reflections.  Since you said you have to do some thinking ....  I am thinking my rules may need revising so I'm holding off for now.  Thanks.

I'm off out the door now too, so maybe more time between typing and sticking the rules up is a very good thing.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on April 27, 2013, 08:57:56 PM
How many rules are there and how do you intend to enforce the consequences?

ETA: What happens when more issues come up - will that result in more rules and consequences?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 09:01:42 PM
Cuddlepie, oh no......not being critical.  Don't revise; your rules are your rules.

Be nice if you want to share more, people might have some helpful feedback!  If not, it's okay.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on April 27, 2013, 09:17:20 PM
I think your rules are fine.  As long as they are reasonable and clear, I think making clear rules is actually helpful so that there isn't ambiguity in terms of what is expected of the lodger.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Ticia on April 28, 2013, 12:03:58 AM
Quote
I am printing out some rules with consequences if they are not followed.

hmmm. 

OP, Please explain.  An example, maybe?  Thanks.


(No, the "hmmm" is not snark, so to anyone sitting on the sidelines ready to jump on me, please......let's not even go there.  "hmmm" simply means "okay, I'm rubbing my chin, thinking about this.)

The "hmmm" might or might not come off as snarky, but your italicized part of your post comes off as *extremely* snarky.

With online communication it is very hard to convey tone, so we have to be extra careful of how we are coming across. One way to convey that you're not trying to be snarky would be to say something like: "Hmmm... I'm sitting here, rubbing my chin, thinking about this. Perhaps you could give an example?"
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 28, 2013, 04:18:07 AM
OP here.

Please don't judge me too harshly but I have just behaved PA to Lodger.

I got home around 4.30 and she was already cooking her meal.  At 6.20 I started cooking and her dishes still in the drainer.  I'm not feeling 100% ... the cold I've been fending off has finally got me ... therefore I could not be bothered dealing with Lodger in between sneezing and sniffing.  (Rules need to be printed yet anyway and there's always tomorrow, eh?).  So, my pots and pans, dishes and cutlery are washed and in the drainer on top of hers.   I wonder if she will say anything to me?

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 28, 2013, 10:14:12 AM
Hi Cuddlepie.
I don’t see where you were PA.  But I’d like to reference something I said earlier:  Is all this ‘back & forth’, analyzing, wondering, and waiting for a reaction really worth it?  :-\ This appears to be an extremely unpleasant living arrangement (for you).  I think printing written rules (at this stage) might just make things worse, not better.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 28, 2013, 06:24:24 PM
OP here.

Please don't judge me too harshly but I have just behaved PA to Lodger.

I got home around 4.30 and she was already cooking her meal.  At 6.20 I started cooking and her dishes still in the drainer.  I'm not feeling 100% ... the cold I've been fending off has finally got me ... therefore I could not be bothered dealing with Lodger in between sneezing and sniffing.  (Rules need to be printed yet anyway and there's always tomorrow, eh?).  So, my pots and pans, dishes and cutlery are washed and in the drainer on top of hers.   I wonder if she will say anything to me?


So, after waking up to a beautiful Autumn morning and a good night's sleep, I put my washing away but left Lodger's in the drainer.

I have changed my mind.  Instead of having rules with consequences I intend to put up rules only, this sits better with me.  If Lodger continues not putting dishes away I will use every annoyance as motivation to get my health back on track, work more and then I won't need a lodger.   :)

I have enjoyed reading all the replies, they have helped me organise my thoughts.  Thank you again.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 28, 2013, 07:28:57 PM
Why not just say, "Lodger, could you come put your dishes away, right now please? They're in my way."

Each time.

It's sort of like me getting up and going to find my waiter (or *a* waiter) instead of sitting there watching for when she pops back into view.

Just ask for what you want.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 28, 2013, 07:42:35 PM
Toots, the first few times she left them I did ask but gave up as she kept going back to the habit.   What I didn't realise how I would be more and more bothered by it and I'm not prepared to walk to her bedroom, ask her to come out to kitchen, wait for her to wander out and watch her til I can use the kitchen.  She is a adult and should not need reminding.  A sign in front of her nose requesting she put pots and dishes away immediately should do the trick, well I hope so !
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 28, 2013, 09:19:43 PM
I have this feeling it won't work. And it definitely won't work if the first time she forgets, she gets away with it.

You're going to need to call out and make her come get them out of your way each time.

A law that is not enforced is not a law.

I wish you luck!
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 29, 2013, 01:33:58 AM
Grrrrr !!! 

This morning I told Lodger that I expected the kitchen to be left clean in the same manner as I leave it for her and that this meant not leaving washed dishes in the drainer.  I wanted to be able to wash up without calling her to put stuff away. 

Thought I made myself absolutely clear this time. Maybe yes, maybe no !!!! 

I arrived home after lunch to find her lunch pan and dishes in the drainer and Lodger not at home.  This is after our talk this morning when she agreed to the 'leave it as you find it rule.'  Does Lodger think that if dishes are moved by the time I start cooking this will be acceptable or is she paying lip service only?

Tonight I am having dinner at my daughter's home which unfortunately means I won't be around at my home to see what Lodger does with the dishes.  Seriously thinking of giving her a warning that if she ignores me and leaves the dishes again, then she is looking for a new address.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Margo on April 29, 2013, 07:46:32 AM
I would do so. It sounds as though her behaviour is causing you an awful lot of stress.

I'd suggest that if you advertise for a new lodger you consider having some houserules  in palce before they move in - that way, you can tell them what the rules/epectations are, ask them if they have any comments or anything they'd want to add, and you are both clear on the expectations from the beginning.

You can explain to any new lodger that you had an unfortuantely exprience with a previus lodger whi behaved very badly adn that that is why you feel it is imprtnat to be upfront from the beginning.

With any luck, it will help to ensure that whoever moves in either has similar expecations or is able to adapt, as they will know before they start both what you expect and that you take it seriously.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: kckgirl on April 29, 2013, 07:49:31 AM
Seriously thinking of giving her a warning that if she ignores me and leaves the dishes again, then she is looking for a new address.

You may want to consider having her look for a new address anyway. She is seriously causing you undue stress. You shouldn't have to deal with that in your own home.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 29, 2013, 08:59:19 AM
Does Lodger think that if dishes are moved by the time I start cooking this will be acceptable or is she paying lip service only?

I think that it's sort of silly to ask us this. And it's not effective to even ask it of yourself.
You need to ask her, if you truly want an answer to that.

I would leave her a note, since you won't see her, that says, "What I meant was, dry them and put them away right away."

I have to say that I would think it was OK to leave dishes to dry in the drying rack.
I also know I'd be unhappy with feelign that I had to erase every trace of my presence from the place--but that's also why I'm not a lodger, I guess.

Quote

Tonight I am having dinner at my daughter's home which unfortunately means I won't be around at my home to see what Lodger does with the dishes.  Seriously thinking of giving her a warning that if she ignores me and leaves the dishes again, then she is looking for a new address.

First you need to decide--if they ARE put away by the time you start cooking, is that good enough?


I'm having trouble condemning the lodger for many of these things. I can't see that these make her a horrible human being.


But I *do* think this means that you aren't temperamentally suited to have a lodger. Maybe not *any* lodger.

Right now you're acting like a parent--her dishes aren't actually interfering, but you're angry because she didn't do as she was told. That's not a good dynamic.

If you try to get another lodger, you need to do some serious thinking about how *you* are going to react and interact with a lodger.

Oh, and there are worse ones out there, actually.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DavidH on April 29, 2013, 10:28:59 AM
It seems pretty clear that you and this lodger don't get along.  Leaving dishes in the drainer to dry is pretty normal, since I think that's what they're for.  On the other hand, I can see why it's annoying to find it full when the time comes for you to wash your own dishes.  The compromise would be to have hers out by the time you start to cook. 

If the goal is to get her to change behavior, then you may actually need to go to her room and ask her to remove her dishes.  It will have the added advantage of inconveniencing her each time, thus providing incentive for her to put them away before you start to cook.  If you are unwilling to remind her even a few times and just hope that putting your dishes on top of hers will cause her to change behavior, you are likely to be disappointed.  It may not bother her, it wouldn't bother me for example, and a verbal reminder is much more likely to work.

It sounds like you don't want her there.  I can see why some of this bothers you, but using a blanket left in the living room and leaving your dishes in the dish drainer to dry are pretty normal things to do. 

The combination of having a unintuitive set of rules and being rather PA and not willing to tell someone the rules up outright does not lend itself to having a roommate.

If you have any interest in making this work, have an honest conversation with her, lay out the rules, negotiate something you can both live with and go from there. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 29, 2013, 10:52:29 AM
Quote
Leaving dishes in the drainer to dry is pretty normal, since I think that's what they're for. 

That's the way I feel.

Pots and pans with food left on stove burners, dirty dishes on the countertop – these are things I would find annoying if I wanted to cook.  Clean dishes in the dish drainer – not so much.

OP, clearly this dish drainer issue is upsetting you - a lot.  If you ever have another housemate or guest, you need to put that at the top of your list of rules.

However, I don't think printed rules or verbal reminders are going to matter, because

Quote
It sounds like you don't want her there.

This.  Frankly, I don't think you want anyone there - and that's okay.  You need to figure out a way to live so that it's not necessary to have a roomer.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 29, 2013, 03:08:49 PM
I agree with Toots (and the guys) above.  I don't see the problem with the dish drainer's being used for what it's designed to do - drain the dishes so that you don't have to dry quite so much.  Likewise with a lot of the other things you've mentioned.

I really think this boils down to the fact that you don't like this girl.  Which is completely your right.  Not everyone gets along.  But this dislike is causing you to react to some normal things with anger when it's not really as big a deal as you might find with someone else.

Actually, I think I agree as well with the above  poster.  You're not really that keen on anyone's living with you.  I think it might be a good idea to start seeing if there's a way to do what you need to do without having a boarder in your home.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: lellah on April 29, 2013, 03:25:59 PM
Oh, my.  This whole thread is exhausting.  Exhausting!  You have no contract with this woman and a series of mostly unarticulated expectations for her that are varying levels of reasonable, and this situation is causing you both stress. 

I'm sorry you're in a bad spot with your finances and that you're undoubtedly upset by familial concerns.  But I'm equally sorry for this hapless lodger of yours.

If you were to evict her, as others suggested, and then try to find a new lodger to whom you'll provide a list of your house rules, I suspect you'll have a terrible time finding anyone to take you up on it.  How long would that list be, honestly?  Pages and pages.

I'm sorry: I think your plan to create rules and consequences like this woman is an unruly tween is rude as well as, frankly, bananas. 
 
Here's what I think your actual options are: 1) make a list of your, say, ten most important rules, and chill out about everything else.  2) find a way to make money that isn't letting a spare room.  3) evict this girl and replace her with a tenant who rents the bed & bathroom only without access to the kitchen and living room.  Charge that tenant extra for the electricity she'll use up on her mini fridge and electric kettle.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 29, 2013, 03:36:46 PM
Does Lodger think that if dishes are moved by the time I start cooking this will be acceptable or is she paying lip service only?

I think that it's sort of silly to ask us this. And it's not effective to even ask it of yourself.

I meant to comment on what TootsNYC said – I completely agree this is silly.

OP – this is what I meant in my earlier posts.  You keep analyzing and speculating, over and over and over, about what Lodger might be thinking then trying to plan your actions in case she thinks (whatever), then you come back and ask us if Lodger is thinking (whatever).  This is getting you nowhere and accomplishing nothing towards a solution.

Written, printed "rules"?  Nah.

My verdict is you don't want this Lodger, you don't want any other Lodger.  While I realize you need the income, you'll just have to overlook various annoyances, ask the Lodger to leave, or make some financial adjustments (maybe find a part-time work-at-home job or somehow cut back on expenses).

Frankly, if I was the Lodger I'd already be looking for another place to live and I would not be discussing anymore rules.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but that's my honest take in this situation.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 29, 2013, 04:57:19 PM

I really think this boils down to the fact that you don't like this girl.  Which is completely your right.  Not everyone gets along.  But this dislike is causing you to react to some normal things with anger when it's not really as big a deal as you might find with someone else.

Actually, I think I agree as well with the above  poster.  You're not really that keen on anyone's living with you.  I think it might be a good idea to start seeing if there's a way to do what you need to do without having a boarder in your home.

I think it's less that you don't like her particularly and more that you don't really like having someone else doing stuff with your things and in your space.

You may also be unused to having another *adult* living with you, since you're slipping into "Mom" mode so easily.

In terms of this specific person--she may have asked for, and you may have granted, financial concessions that make you resent her a bit, which colors everything you see.

(Though w/ the aspirin thing, I do agree that it's also possible that she's the sort of person to takes advantage of other people when the opportunity arises--a trait that was given encouragement when you agreed to drop your price for her.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 29, 2013, 05:09:33 PM
Quote
You may also be unused to having another *adult* living with you, since you're slipping into "Mom" mode so easily.

This might be a good thing to consider here.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: dawbs on April 29, 2013, 05:16:49 PM
If you do go the 'new lodger' route, I'd think that making it clear what, of the 'common area' is being rented, will be the crux of the issue.

I do agree that you may need to be flexible in the 'rules'; I think it's fair to assume that to many folks, 'impersonal' items (like blankets, dishracks, etc) in a "common area" were for common use--so I think moving what is to be 'private' into your own rooms is also paramount.

If you want to designate place in the kitchen for your lodger, I would designate a portion of the fridge, freezer, counter (where she could have her own dishrack), and cupboards.  Same for the lodger's shelf in the medicine cabinet, shelf in the shower/bath, etc.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 29, 2013, 07:03:55 PM
I agree that dish drainers are for draining dishes and that it works fine in a single family/user situation.  When you are sharing a kitchen you need to accommodate each other and keep the area ready for use, lets say 90% of the time.  In reality, sometimes you are running behind and have no option to leave, then come home and tidy the kitchen.

Let me put it this way to PPs.  How would you feel if 90% of the time, when you went to use the kitchen things were in your way - i) if roommate/lodger is home you go to her room, ask that she puts her things away and remain polite after the 4th+ time of asking or ii) you put her things away yourself or iii) leave them in drainer but then need utensils that just happens to be underneath everything else?  I can't be alone here, surely it would bother others as well.  :'(

I don't dislike her, we get along when we chat, we watch TV together (and yes she can chose what to watch) and I really try to be a good, fair and kind landlady.  To be honest I have compromised in quite a few ways to suit her and her needs, over and above what should be required.  eg: she gets up later than I do, so I don't vacuum or put on the washing machine until she is up and about and not disturbed.  Lodger gets up 8am or a little later while I am up at 6.45 ish.  I let lodger know when my family and friends are coming over, so she isn't sprung wearing her night clothes.  She is not expected to go to her room, she is always invited to join us if she wants or to keep watching TV.  Friends coming over at night happens less than once a fortnight, a cuppa during the day maybe once, sometimes twice per week - since lodger moved in I tend to visit friends rather than them come to me,  so not to disturb lodger so much.

It is very disheartening to read some of the comments, when PP have said that would have already moved out or I'm not suitable to sharing.  Why - I wasn't the one using up all of someone else's food, I'm not the one putting others health as risk be allowing meat juices to drip in the fridge and I'm not causing a continual problem in the kitchen.  OK, that last one is a matter of opinion :-\.  The heating is set to what is considered the norm (and not just by me) and I certainly not saying that the heating can't be turned up higher if she willing to pay towards the extra costs. I rectified my blanket issue, and it was my issue, in a way that Lodger was not even aware that I knew she used my blanket, let alone knew that it squeaked me a bit.  Thanks to you all I handled it well.  Lodger has her own shelves in fridge, freezer and pantry, there is a section in the cupboards for her personal crockery, containers etc but she uses mine so this area is empty.  Lodger has her own en-suite and as far as I know she does not enter the main bathroom which is separate from the living areas.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on April 29, 2013, 10:18:15 PM
The dishes in the drainer thing would.drive.me.nuts. and most of my family. I don't want to look at dishes out of place every time I walk through the kitchen it makes the house look untidy.  And I would be telling her that I want them washed dried and put away first time,every time.

The fridge would also drive me insane - She'd be cleaning the mess up, replacing anything that the blood touched -as you could not use it after blood got on it for risk of disease. And I'd be having her pay extra for the electricity to run SMALL refrigerator she would now need to keep in her room.

If she kept leaving things behind, she'd loose kitchen privileges and be told either pay $$$ for board and eat what I cook - or leave. The refrigerator stuff would be a deal breaker for me - that's just gross!
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 29, 2013, 11:22:44 PM

If she kept leaving things behind, she'd loose kitchen privileges and be told either pay $$$ for board and eat what I cook - or leave.

 :-\ There is a bad bad irony to this .... Son and I are vegetarian (although I eat meat when visiting friends),  Lodger eats bacon sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner, rarely with veggies or even salad and she never eats fruit.    I exaggerate, sometimes it's a lamb chop sandwich or spaghetti bolognaise or frozen fish and chips.   Cooking, sharing and eating the same meals, dealbreaker for all, yes  ;D

Edited: Too many typos cos I was laughing about how this would go down if I suggested.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: pennylucy on April 29, 2013, 11:29:42 PM
The dishes in the drainer thing would.drive.me.nuts. and most of my family. I don't want to look at dishes out of place every time I walk through the kitchen it makes the house look untidy.  And I would be telling her that I want them washed dried and put away first time,every time.

The fridge would also drive me insane - She'd be cleaning the mess up, replacing anything that the blood touched -as you could not use it after blood got on it for risk of disease. And I'd be having her pay extra for the electricity to run SMALL refrigerator she would now need to keep in her room.

If she kept leaving things behind, she'd loose kitchen privileges and be told either pay $$$ for board and eat what I cook - or leave. The refrigerator stuff would be a deal breaker for me - that's just gross!

Wow...thank God you're not a landlady.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: kareng57 on April 29, 2013, 11:34:53 PM
I agree that dish drainers are for draining dishes and that it works fine in a single family/user situation.  When you are sharing a kitchen you need to accommodate each other and keep the area ready for use, lets say 90% of the time.  In reality, sometimes you are running behind and have no option to leave, then come home and tidy the kitchen.

Let me put it this way to PPs.  How would you feel if 90% of the time, when you went to use the kitchen things were in your way - i) if roommate/lodger is home you go to her room, ask that she puts her things away and remain polite after the 4th+ time of asking or ii) you put her things away yourself or iii) leave them in drainer but then need utensils that just happens to be underneath everything else?  I can't be alone here, surely it would bother others as well.  :'(

I don't dislike her, we get along when we chat, we watch TV together (and yes she can chose what to watch) and I really try to be a good, fair and kind landlady.  To be honest I have compromised in quite a few ways to suit her and her needs, over and above what should be required.  eg: she gets up later than I do, so I don't vacuum or put on the washing machine until she is up and about and not disturbed.  Lodger gets up 8am or a little later while I am up at 6.45 ish.  I let lodger know when my family and friends are coming over, so she isn't sprung wearing her night clothes.  She is not expected to go to her room, she is always invited to join us if she wants or to keep watching TV.  Friends coming over at night happens less than once a fortnight, a cuppa during the day maybe once, sometimes twice per week - since lodger moved in I tend to visit friends rather than them come to me,  so not to disturb lodger so much.

It is very disheartening to read some of the comments, when PP have said that would have already moved out or I'm not suitable to sharing.  Why - I wasn't the one using up all of someone else's food, I'm not the one putting others health as risk be allowing meat juices to drip in the fridge and I'm not causing a continual problem in the kitchen.  OK, that last one is a matter of opinion :-\.  The heating is set to what is considered the norm (and not just by me) and I certainly not saying that the heating can't be turned up higher if she willing to pay towards the extra costs. I rectified my blanket issue, and it was my issue, in a way that Lodger was not even aware that I knew she used my blanket, let alone knew that it squeaked me a bit.  Thanks to you all I handled it well.  Lodger has her own shelves in fridge, freezer and pantry, there is a section in the cupboards for her personal crockery, containers etc but she uses mine so this area is empty.  Lodger has her own en-suite and as far as I know she does not enter the main bathroom which is separate from the living areas.


Re your second paragraph - yes, I'll admit that I'd find it mildly bothersome.  I also find it mildly bothersome when DS #2 leaves his stuff on the stove-top.  I chide him every now and then, but it's a trade-off.  Having him here to do the yard-maintenance ever since his dad died is great.  Of course I realize that this is not in any way your sort of situation.

But I think that you have to pick your battles.  Several PPs have said that they consider it "normal" to leave dishes in a drain-rack and I completely agree.  What about simply collecting her stuff off the drain-rack and piling it up, so she can put it away later?

In the end of course it's your call.  Only a small minority of roommate situations are completely compatible, and you could run the risk of getting a far worse one, if you evict your current lodger.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: AnnaJ on April 29, 2013, 11:55:27 PM
I don't dislike her, we get along when we chat, we watch TV together (and yes she can chose what to watch) and I really try to be a good, fair and kind landlady.  To be honest I have compromised in quite a few ways to suit her and her needs, over and above what should be required.  eg: she gets up later than I do, so I don't vacuum or put on the washing machine until she is up and about and not disturbed.  Lodger gets up 8am or a little later while I am up at 6.45 ish.  I let lodger know when my family and friends are coming over, so she isn't sprung wearing her night clothes.  She is not expected to go to her room, she is always invited to join us if she wants or to keep watching TV.  Friends coming over at night happens less than once a fortnight, a cuppa during the day maybe once, sometimes twice per week - since lodger moved in I tend to visit friends rather than them come to me,  so not to disturb lodger so much.

I can understand being frustrated when you're trying to cook and there are things in your way, and think it's great that you've resolved the blanket issue.  I think the reason that several people are expressing concern about whether or not you are compatible with having a lodger is that several of the things that bother you are pretty normal expectations, I think, for many renters.

As far as not vacuuming or doing laundry early, honestly I wouldn't expect my landlady to do those things before 8 any more than I would expect to be allowed to do noisy things after a reasonable hour at night.   Letting her know when you are expecting company isn't being extra nice to her, it's just common courtesy, especially if it's at a time when she'd be wearing nightclothes.  As for allowing her access to the living room, I would expect that, or expect to pay very much less rent if all I was getting was a bedroom and a bathroom.

It's not a personal criticism of you, it's just that not everyone is cut out to have people they don't know/aren't related to living with them; I have a roommate, but we were friends for years and are able to negotiate pretty well - I honestly don't know how well I'd do in your circumstance either.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 30, 2013, 12:30:54 AM
[
As far as not vacuuming or doing laundry early, honestly I wouldn't expect my landlady to do those things before 8 any more than I would expect to be allowed to do noisy things after a reasonable hour at night.   If I was working full-time then I would need to vacuum earlier or of an evening when she is watching TV.  I am probably showing my age here, but 8am isn't early ... some folk are already at work or uni  ;D

As for allowing her access to the living room, I would expect that, or expect to pay very much less rent if all I was getting was a bedroom and a bathroom.  This is a good point  .... Lodger pays significantly less than son and I and this also includes her queen size bed, 2 bedside tables, a large chest of drawers and a large desk with bookshelf and then the use of fridge, kitchen appliances, washing machine etc and no housework and garden maintenance either.  If you (generic) want to have more rights, share rooms equally, negotiate what temperature house is kept at, then you rent and sign a lease and buy your own furniture.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 30, 2013, 12:34:03 AM
Quote
As far as not vacuuming or doing laundry early, honestly I wouldn't expect my landlady to do those things before 8 any more than I would expect to be allowed to do noisy things after a reasonable hour at night.   Letting her know when you are expecting company isn't being extra nice to her, it's just common courtesy, especially if it's at a time when she'd be wearing nightclothes.  As for allowing her access to the living room, I would expect that, or expect to pay very much less rent if all I was getting was a bedroom and a bathroom.

Yeah, all this kinda made me wonder as well. Of course you'd let her know when company's coming, so she's not naked. That's not going out of your way. I'd expect that from anyone. Likewise getting to use the room. Wouldn't that be expected?

I don't think it's a criticism of you that you're not cut out for having someone loving with you. I get that it's hard, and that you're already really set in your ways and not really wanting to change what you've come to feel is your way of living. But it is just that - your way. Not the way. If a boarder doesn't do things the same way, they're not wrong. They're just not the person that should be living with you. I don't think I would be, either, honestly. The rules and conditions seem really confining and depressing to me. But, then again, I'm not needing to live there.

I do think the poster (was it Toots?) that said you're kind of in a mother role has a good point. You might step back and think if this is how you're feeling - and maybe acting. I can see that coming through in some of the things you're saying.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: MariaE on April 30, 2013, 01:04:13 AM
Let me put it this way to PPs.  How would you feel if 90% of the time, when you went to use the kitchen things were in your way - i) if roommate/lodger is home you go to her room, ask that she puts her things away and remain polite after the 4th+ time of asking or ii) you put her things away yourself or iii) leave them in drainer but then need utensils that just happens to be underneath everything else?  I can't be alone here, surely it would bother others as well.  :'(

Depending how long time she left them, I'd take it as a natural part of sharing a house with somebody. Leaving them to air-dry and moving them after a couple of hours or so? Perfectly reasonable in my book. Leaving them to air-dry and moving them next time she cooks a meal/does her dishes? Not so much.

As for the rest I agree with DottyG and Toots.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 30, 2013, 01:33:02 AM
Quote
Depending how long time she left them, I'd take it as a natural part of sharing a house with somebody. Leaving them to air-dry and moving them after a couple of hours or so? Perfectly reasonable in my book

Exactly. That's what the thing is for.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 30, 2013, 01:56:38 AM
Quote
As far as not vacuuming or doing laundry early, honestly I wouldn't expect my landlady to do those things before 8 any more than I would expect to be allowed to do noisy things after a reasonable hour at night. I am not running a hotel, it's a normal busy household where you need to get out of the house or perhaps I could vacuum at night while she watching TV or studying.   Letting her know when you are expecting company isn't being extra nice to her, it's just common courtesy, especially if it's at a time when she'd be wearing nightclothes. As for allowing her access to the living room, I would expect that, or expect to pay very much less rent if all I was getting was a bedroom and a bathroom.

Yeah, all this kinda made me wonder as well. Of course you'd let her know when company's coming, so she's not naked. That's not going out of your way. I'd expect that from anyone. Likewise getting to use the room. Wouldn't that be expected? That would be acceptable if you are renting, as a lodger you do not get to use common rooms 100% of the time.

I don't think it's a criticism of you that you're not cut out for having someone loving with you. I get that it's hard, and that you're already really set in your ways and not really wanting to change what you've come to feel is your way of living. But it is just that - your way. Not the way. If a boarder doesn't do things the same way, they're not wrong. My son and I have changed to accomodate a lodger.  I have already said that I do my housework at a different time to fit in with her habits, I go out more rather than inviting my friends over, I fit in with her use of the kitchen, I don't care that she is up all night watching TV which I can hear from my bedroom or that her mobile phone calls wake me as that is part of sharing They're just not the person that should be living with you. I don't think I would be, either, honestly. The rules and conditions seem really confining and depressing to me. But, then again, I'm not needing to live there. I am at a loss .... what rules and conditions.  I don't know how to re=post a quote from my post #16 for reference here.  I was brought up using a separate rag to mop up kitchen spills, that is normal to me and I think is hygenic anyway, better safe than sorry.  Meat should never be left to ooze over a fridge shelf and its contents.  As for leaving dishes in the drainer, I find it annoying but guess I can learn to live with it for a while.

I do think the poster (was it Toots?) that said you're kind of in a mother role has a good point. You might step back and think if this is how you're feeling - and maybe acting. I can see that coming through in some of the things you're saying.
The last thing I want is to be her surrogate mother.  Give me a clue, what am I doing (or saying) that suggests that I give that impression?

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 30, 2013, 02:04:14 AM
Quote
Depending how long time she left them, I'd take it as a natural part of sharing a house with somebody. Leaving them to air-dry and moving them after a couple of hours or so? Perfectly reasonable in my book

Exactly. That's what the thing is for.

Hey guys how about referring to my previous replies as I am feeling like a parrot ;).

I agree reasonable as long as you are the only person using the kitchen.  Lodger cooks breakfast, washes up and leaves dishes in drainer, Lodgers cooks lunch, washes up and leaves more dishes in drainer, Lodger cooks her dinner, washes and and leaves dishes in drainer.  Cuddlepie cooks dinner for her and son and can't use drainer until she has dealt with Lodger's dishes. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: MariaE on April 30, 2013, 02:29:04 AM
Quote
Depending how long time she left them, I'd take it as a natural part of sharing a house with somebody. Leaving them to air-dry and moving them after a couple of hours or so? Perfectly reasonable in my book

Exactly. That's what the thing is for.

Hey guys how about referring to my previous replies as I am feeling like a parrot ;).

I agree reasonable as long as you are the only person using the kitchen.  Lodger cooks breakfast, washes up and leaves dishes in drainer, Lodgers cooks lunch, washes up and leaves more dishes in drainer, Lodger cooks her dinner, washes and and leaves dishes in drainer.  Cuddlepie cooks dinner for her and son and can't use drainer until she has dealt with Lodger's dishes. 

What we're saying is that it's also reasonable to us even when you aren't the only person using the kitchen.

The following would be perfectly reasonable to me:
Lodger cooks breakfast, washes up and leaves dishes in drainer.
Lodger knows you don't cook lunch at home, so the dishes will only inconvenience her for lunch.
Lodger cooks lunch, washes up and leaves more dishes in drainer.
Sometime between lunch and dinner, lodger removes dry dishes.
Lodger cooks dinner before you do, washes up and leaves only the dinner dishes in drainer.
Cuddlepie cooks dinner, washes up and leaves dishes on top of lodgers in drainer.
Somewhere between dinner and going to bed lodger and Cuddlepie both remove dry dishes from drainer.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 30, 2013, 03:02:23 AM
MariaE, thank you ... your timeline helped me see what PPs thought reasonable.  I could only see it from how it was at my kitchen sink.


MariaE:  The following would be perfectly reasonable to me:
Lodger cooks breakfast, washes up and leaves dishes in drainer.
Often a few things from previous day left along with breakfast (Son & I leave our few things to the side or I wash and dry one item at a time 
Lodger knows you don't cook lunch at home, so the dishes will only inconvenience her for lunch.
I mostly eat lunch at home, so there is a few things, sometimes I heat leftovers in the microwave.  Also, extra if I have a friend over for coffee .  I wash & dry one by one.
Lodger cooks lunch, washes up and leaves more dishes in drainer.
Sometime between lunch and dinner, lodger removes dry dishes.
I wish  :(
Lodger cooks dinner before you do, washes up and leaves only the dinner dishes in drainer.
I often need utensils that are hiding under her pots and dishes.  Also makes it awkard to use micowave as dishes stop the door opening fully
Cuddlepie cooks dinner, washes up and leaves dishes on top of lodgers in drainer.
Somewhere between dinner and going to bed lodger and Cuddlepie both remove dry dishes from drainer.
It can be a precarious balancing act .... it's not like doing all the plates, stacking them in the drainer then finishing with the pots and pans.  Sometimes it is more than just a single meals worth too.



I have a timeline of my own.  For the next 2 months I will not worry about dishes in the drainer, I'll work around them, cos then Lodger will be asked to move.   Do I hear the loud banging of heads on desks  :-[.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Miss Unleaded on April 30, 2013, 03:22:27 AM
Sorry Cuddlepie, I am going to have to chime in with the others and say that I think you have unreasonable expectations for your lodger.  From what you've written I think your best course would be to evict her asap and find a way to make ends meet without having someone stay in your house.  Is there a reason you're waiting for two months?

Maybe it's because I've had some really crappy housemates in the past (drug addicts, complete slobs who left food and dirty pans sitting out for days, several young women who would pick up strangers in bars and bring them home, etc) but she sounds like a perfectly ok lodger to me.

ETA that I think you have a valid complaint about her using up your painkillers and food though.  I definitely would have made her replace what she used and ensure that, for the remainder of the time she stays, she understands that your stuff is off limits.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: saki on April 30, 2013, 06:52:29 AM
The way I've done things with crockery and the drying rack and housemates has always been:  if the housemate's stuff is in the way so I need to put it away before I can wash up, I then leave my stuff on the draining board so when they need to wash up, they put mine away.  Seems fairly equitable.

I ended up going into a bit of debt in order to continue living on my own, rather than with housemates/lodgers because I hated it that much.  I don't regret that at all.  I just don't deal well with someone else in my space.  Cuddlepie - I really think that you need just to give up on the idea of having a lodger.  It sounds like if you wrote out all the rules that a lodger would have to follow in order to live with you, it would be a book.  And no-one is going to sign up for that.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: reflection5 on April 30, 2013, 08:47:32 AM
Wow.

Reaffirming what I said in my most recent post (#110).

Also, a tenant's food choices and whether or not a tenant eats enough vegetables is not the business of a Landlord.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: rose red on April 30, 2013, 09:10:49 AM
Also, a tenant's food choices and whether or not a tenant eats enough vegetables is not the business of a Landlord.

I've kept quiet in this thread, but that post startled me too.  OP, you just don't seem to like this girl and it's coming out in a very judgemental and nit-picky way.  Perhaps there are some things she deserve to be judged, but there were many other things listed where she did not.  You admit you resent the financial situation that forced you into renting a room.  Perhaps it's a good idea to have a meeting where you both talk about your expectations.  There needs to be compromise when two strangers are living together, even if one of those people is the homeowner.  "My way or the highway" does not make a peaceful home.  If you simply can't live with her even after a meeting, then it's time to give her notice for her sake as well as yours.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: lurkerwisp on April 30, 2013, 11:18:33 AM
Just piping in to say that lodger, roommate, or renter - vacuuming and being otherwise noisy before 8am would pretty much never be okay in a shared living situation.

I don't make loud noises that early in the morning even on weekends because I live in a townhouse with shared walls, and don't want to disturb my neighbors.  They're kind enough to not be too noisy during the day when DH is sleeping, so I can be kind enough to not bother them in return.  8am is also the time of day that some people are getting home from work and trying to fall asleep.  He wears earplugs, but if they were to be extra loud no earplugs would help.

Vacuuming doesn't need to be done every day.  If you'd be headed out to a full time job for 8am, you could wait to vacuum on your day off instead of waking up your housemates or neighbors being so inconsiderate.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Judah on April 30, 2013, 11:30:25 AM
It is very disheartening to read some of the comments, when PP have said that would have already moved out or I'm not suitable to sharing. 

The tone of your posts give the impression that you are inflexible to others' ways of doing things and you resent having someone else in your space. This isn't a moral failing, Cuddlepie, but it is a facet of your personality that you should consider. I am completely incapable of sharing my home with anyone other than my husband and children. And quite frankly, even my kids get on my nerves when they come home for the school breaks.  They are developing their own ways of doing things that are different than mine and we don't always meld.  But because they're my kids, we manage. I wouldn't be able to manage with a stranger, and that's okay as long as I know this about myself and don't put myself in the position of have to rely on a stranger's rent money to pay my bills.

You are in a difficult spot, but I would be looking for a different way to bring in money.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: AnnaJ on April 30, 2013, 11:53:26 AM
OP, I think part of the difficulty in this discussion is that you've presented all of the things that annoy you about this tenant as being equal and they're not, which is part of the confusion about whether or not posters agree with you.

The only truly egregious thing tenant has done in my opinion is to take your headache meds without asking and it's perfectly reasonable for you to talk to her about that, even point out that the reason that you are taking in a boarder is to make some extra money so having to spend more money to replace medication doesn't make sense.

The just-met romantic interest spending the night, using an electric heater that would substantially raise your utility bill, and bringing home a kitten (ooohhh, kitten  :) ) are also things that are certainly reasonable for you to veto but the point is she asked you (assuming here about the kitten).  She didn't show up with new guy and wander back to her bedroom, she didn't just buy a heater and begin using it, and she didn't (presumably) show up with a kitten, she talked to you about it first and that's absolutely the right thing - since you say you really didn't have rules set when she moved in, that's the way to negotiate them.

Thawing meat and letting the blood spill on your food, definitely worth a discussion.  The dishes?  Several people here have made other suggestion that might be useful.

I already talked about some of your other comments in a previous post, the only thing I'll add is that I am unfamiliar with the idea that a lodger would only have access to common areas part of the time, but that may be a difference between the U.S. and Australia.

Bottom line...read the title of your thread: "To share or not ... that is the question" and consider if you really want to share, not just your blanket but your house.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: asb8 on April 30, 2013, 11:57:21 AM
 This is a good point  .... Lodger pays significantly less than son and I and this also includes her queen size bed, 2 bedside tables, a large chest of drawers and a large desk with bookshelf and then the use of fridge, kitchen appliances, washing machine etc and no housework and garden maintenance either.  If you (generic) want to have more rights, share rooms equally, negotiate what temperature house is kept at, then you rent and sign a lease and buy your own furniture.

It was your choice to allow her to move in at her current price and it was your choice not to make your expectations clearer from the beginning. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 30, 2013, 12:43:47 PM
Cuddlepie, I'll go back to your needing to make your expectations clear. I don't think it is unreasonable of you to want the drainer empty when you start your dinner.
I do think it is unreasonable to expect the drainer to be empty at all times. It sounds like your normally make one meal per day, so putting the dishes away after that meal is normal. In most houses that make multiple meals per day, seeing dishes in the drainer between meals is pretty normal because many of them will be re-used to make the next meal.

Tell the lodger that you expect the drainer to be empty by Xpm each night when you start making your dinner. If she can't do that she needs to get her own drainer and take it to her bedroom to sit on a towel until she puts the dishes away so that it is not in your way.

Living in a shared home with varying schedules is much different from living in a shared home with occupants on different schedules. Yes, running a vacuum before work is normal if no home occupants are sleeping. But even when it's just family members, most don't do that until everyone is awake.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: thedudeabides on April 30, 2013, 01:32:55 PM
As others have said, you need to find a way not to need a lodger, because you're not someone suited to have them.

Edited to add: That's not necessarily a bad thing, it just is the fact of the matter.  You have very specific ideas about what a lodger should do/be, but you haven't demonstrated the ability or willingness to communicate those ideas to the lodger.  And you have very specific expectations about what a lodger should be, but you don't seem to have given any thought to what a lodger should be able to expect out of a landlord/landlady.  As a result, you're getting bent out of shape over little things that are not unreasonable of a lodger to expect/do/ask and are yourself engaging in activity that would probably have a landlord/landlady tearing their hair out over if you were their lodger -- vacuuming before 8 am?  Just because I get up at 6 in the morning doesn't mean it would be courteous to anyone else in my house to be excessively noisy at that time of day.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: camlan on April 30, 2013, 03:41:02 PM
I don't think the OP is not fit to have a lodger. I see this as either 1) the OP learning what rules she needs to have for lodgers or 2) a bad landlord/lodger mix.

I rented a room in a home when I was in grad school. The landlady lived there and rented out 4 rooms to students. The rent was very reasonable. But in return, there were rules. Rules that were gone over when we rented, and that were printed out and posted in the kitchen.

We had no use of any room except the room we were renting, the shared renters' bathroom and the kitchen. We each had a shelf in the renters' refrigerator, and two shelves in the kitchen cabinets for our food and cooking gear. We could not cook after 9 pm--we could get food, we just couldn't cook. We had to clean up completely after each meal, washing the dishes, drying them and putting them away.

We couldn't have overnight guests, but we could bring friends back during the day. They had to leave by midnight. The amount of noise we could make was limited. If we wanted to watch TV, we could pay $10 extra a month for the cable hook-up and bring our own TV.

The landlady never told us when she was having company--and she had friends over quite often.

But in return, we had comfortably furnished rooms in a nice, quiet house in a safe neighborhood for a very low rent.

So I don't think the OP's rules are outrageous. I do think that it will be difficult to backtrack and get the lodger to follow them, now that she has had time in the house without the rules.

OP, I'd use this as a learning experience. Now you know what bothers you and what doesn't, you will be better able to interview your next lodger. You'll have a list of rules ready to go at the start. You'll know better what rent to charge.

Now, if you have similar complaints about the next lodger, then it might be time to carefully examine if you really want someone living in your house with you, or maybe to limit future lodgers to their room, with maybe kitchen privileges certain hours of the day.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 30, 2013, 03:57:35 PM
Quote
limit future lodgers to their room, with maybe kitchen privileges certain hours of the day

I realize that that's done in some instances.  And, if the boarder and landlady agree to it as one of the conditions of living there, it's acceptable.

However, there is no rent low enough for me to agree to that! :D  I'd feel like I was in prison or was being punished.  Likewise, all the other rules you had there, camlan.  I felt confined just reading them!  (Just a personal thought as I read that)

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Moray on April 30, 2013, 04:16:25 PM
 This is a good point  .... Lodger pays significantly less than son and I and this also includes her queen size bed, 2 bedside tables, a large chest of drawers and a large desk with bookshelf and then the use of fridge, kitchen appliances, washing machine etc and no housework and garden maintenance either.  If you (generic) want to have more rights, share rooms equally, negotiate what temperature house is kept at, then you rent and sign a lease and buy your own furniture.

It was your choice to allow her to move in at her current price and it was your choice not to make your expectations clearer from the beginning.

Exactly. Frankly, your expectations re: comfortable living temperature, hours of shared space, and use of the kitchen aren't entirely reasonable. Most people reasonably expect to be comfortable in their home (and as long as you accept rent from her, it's her home, too!) without having to bundle up, or be judged for the amount of veggies they choose to eat, or given "consequences" like some wayward child for letting their dishes dry on the drying rack.

Please don't take this as some insult on your character, but you are clearly not suited to be this woman's landlord. I can understand the frustration that comes from negotiating a shared space, especially if no clear expectations were set forth beforehand. Do the kind thing and give her notice, and then think long and hard about what you actually want from a lodger, bearing in mind that many potential tenants might object to having their diet scrutinized, or otherwise being treated like a teenager.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: CakeEater on April 30, 2013, 04:58:31 PM
Gosh, OP, you would never be able to put up with me in your house!  ;)

You seem to want a way to get your lodger to follow your rules without actually telling her what they are. You managed it with the blanket, but I don't think you'll be able to train her to empty the drying rack by a certain time each day without asking her to do that.

You mentioned that you thought you were PA by putting your dishes on top of hers, and were quite annoyed by doing so. Honestly, if my housemate put her dishes on top of mine, even if I noticed, all I would think was, 'Oh, Cuddlepie did some dishes.' It would never in a million years take that as a message to move my dishes, because I don't see piling more dishes on as a problem.

I'd be using teatowels to wipe the floor as well, having no idea that you consider that unhygenic, and I might have meat in the fridge on a high shelf (hopefully not dripping) not knowing that you prefer it to be somewhere else.

She's probably blithely living her life, having no idea that you're seething about some of these problems. Things that you think are completely obvious, aren't universal living rules, and she probably has no idea that they're causing you so much stress.

What I would resent, as a lodger, would be printed rules posted in the house. Workplaces, prisons, and public toilets have posted rules, not private homes.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on April 30, 2013, 05:00:24 PM
Quote
You mentioned that you thought you were PA by putting your dishes on top of hers, and were quite annoyed by doing so. Honestly, if my housemate put her dishes on top of mine, even if I noticed, all I would think was, 'Oh, Cuddlepie did some dishes.' It would never in a million years take that as a message to move my dishes, because I don't see piling more dishes on as a problem.

'twas my thought as well!

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on April 30, 2013, 05:15:13 PM
I suppose you could tell her that you'll do all clean-up, including dishes, for an increase in rent.

Or, w/a  new lodger, you could say that all clean-up is yours, and that's why the rent is as high as it is.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on April 30, 2013, 06:31:04 PM
Last night was cool by 6pm, the temperature gauge read 17C, so I turned on the ducted heating at 18-19C.  After half and hour, I was warm enough and Lodger never said anything about being too hot or too cold.  At 7pm I knocked on Lodgers bedroom door to let her know I was leaving to go out and check if she was warm enough, after she said she was cold at 15-16C in the mornings last week.

Apparently the 'dingdangity heating' (her words) was too high, so she was sweating and needed to take a shower to cool off.  I asked if I could enter and see if her room for whatever reason was hotter than the rest of the house, but I couldn't detect any difference.  I confirmed with her that she was cold in the mornings last week, thinking that perhaps I had misheard, but she said yes she had been cold. 

I then adjusted the temperature down to 16C and said we'd work on a solution.  Hopfully if Lodger closes the floor vent for the heating she can control how much warm air enters her bedroom and also rather than the setting being around 20C it can be set lower and my son and I can wear an extra jumper and lodger will enjoy the right amount of warmess to suit her.

Today I'm going to buy another gauge, so Lodger can determine if the temperature does vary greatly in her room.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: katycoo on April 30, 2013, 06:51:11 PM
OP I feel like you and your lodger are having massive communication issues (both ways, not all your fault).  But you're getting upset at her habits but you're trying to avoid contfrontation by not talking to her about things.  I realise you're trying not to be overly nitpicky but the counter-action of that is that resentment is building.

I'd say"Hey listen, I'm still adjusting to having somone else in the house and there's a few things which have been irritating me."  List the things.  Then ask her if there's anything she wants to discuss with you.
Did she ask you about vaccuuming before 8am or is this a concession you've just made? Maybe she doesn't care?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on April 30, 2013, 08:35:02 PM
I just remembered that I was a lodger once in Spain! I had the use of my room, a shared bathroom, and we were allowed to sit in the living room and watch tv with the landlady.  She provided breakfast and dinner which she served to us at the table so we didn't have kitchen privileges at all beyond getting water from the faucet, though the other lodgers who weren't served food did.  We weren't allowed to have guests over at all, though the landlady occasionally had a neighbor stop by. 

All the rules were explained to me from the moment I stepped into her home, though if I remember correctly I was not given a written copy. Luckily I was staying with a friend so between us we had the rules down pat - my memory sucks when I'm nervous and trying to remember things.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Margo on May 01, 2013, 08:25:08 AM
I don't think the OP is not fit to have a lodger. I see this as either 1) the OP learning what rules she needs to have for lodgers or 2) a bad landlord/lodger mix.

I think this is the key. I also wouldn't see you as someone who should not have a lodger at all. I just don;t think you should have *this* lodger (I think that you kindness in lowering the rent and not requiring a deposit at the beginning probably put you onto the back foot, as it moved the arrangments way from the formal landlord/lodger one from the beginning.

Reading all the posts, it seems as though you're very uncomfortable with coming out and directly addressing the issues with the lodger, and are then frustrated when she doesn't pick up on what are (to you) very clear hints.

Like PPs, if I saw your clean dishes stacked on top of mine, it would never occur to me that this was a PA way of telling me to put my dishes away.  On the other hand, if you said to me "Please can you make sure you put your dishes away straight after you wash up/ no later than [time] as they get in the way of the microwave door, and it's awkward having to dig through the heap to get utensils I need when I'm cooking" I would know exactly what you meant, have a clear rule to follow, and I'd do what you asked.  It would also give me the opening to put forward alternative options.

I think from what you've said, this is the first time you've had a lodger. I would treat it as a learning experience. Think about what things are really important to you and work out what the house rules are, bearing in mind that there will always be some compromises and some things you dislike about sharing with *anyone*.

For some of the specifics you've mentioned, the rules might be things like:

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Morticia on May 01, 2013, 08:28:15 AM
I agree that you should not have *this* lodger. It seems to me that a lot of your irritation comes from the fact that you feel taken advantage of financially. And I would not say you are wrong. I do think you should find a new lodger, and do not negotiate on price, but, as others have said, spell out your expectations regarding heat, cleanliness, pets and guests  from the start.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 03, 2013, 10:55:21 PM
OP here.

There’s been a couple of things happen that have not endeared Lodger.

Pottery Barn is coming to Australia .... heard this while Lodger and I were watching the news. I was about to say that it looked like PB could have some nice things at decent prices, when Lodger cut me off with a comment saying she was a tightwad and wouldn’t pay more than $2 for the item being shown on the news story.  That’s OK, her choice.  Then she goes on saying she tries to pay as little as possible for everything, again her choice.  This discussion diverges to the point where I suddenly realise that Lodger wasn’t as short on funds as she intimated at our first meeting.  Silly me for falling for that and not staying firm on what I wanted for room and not being firm on a bond being required.  I truly don’t think that Lodger realises what she accidently let slip there.

The following evening I dropped my indoor plant that I was taking back inside from the front porth.  Broken pot and potting mix everywhere at front door and close to Lodger bedroom door.  Lodger opens her door and crossly says she was trying to sleep.  It was 5pm, by the way.  I was surprised by her manner and mumbled that I was sorry.  Lodger called me a few choice names and slammed her door shut.  I yelled (as in talked loudly rather than angrily, even thought I was) and said that I was sorry that I woke her and in future I would not tolerate being spoken to in those words, especially as it was an accident.  Her reply was not polite, so I said she had 24hrs to apologise.  Snarky reply from her and I repeated that she had 24hrs.

Lodger always cooks her dinner earlier than I do.  But at 6pm as she was still in her room I presumed she was sleeping and cooked mine.  My meal was cooking and I popped away from kitchen to use the bathroom, came back to find that Lodger had taken over the kitchen and stove, never said a word to me.  The kitchen is not built for two cooks.

I went to my bedroom and counted to 10 before confronting Lodger.  I’m glad I did so, by taking extra time to think what I wanted to say to her had me realising that something had been ‘off’ with Lodger for a week or more and my gut told me something was bothering her.  I returned to the kitchen and sternly said that I wanted to talk with her after we both had eaten.

Long story short (ha ha) Lodger’s father was being a downright jerk and the kicker .... Lodger’s new boyfriend had stopped phoning nor returning her calls and she was blaming me.  Apparently, he did not want to do the extra driving required to meet up with her and had cooled.  Therefore, my fault because I did not agree to have him sleep-over during the week.  I sympathised with her problems and when she stopped crying I asked her how she felt about living in my house.  At this point, I’d had enough attitude, and was considering giving her notice to move out, but felt like I would be kicking her while she was down. That’s not a good feeling at all.

Lodger wants to stay and after some probing from me, admitted to being angry and trying to p.i.s.s. me off because of the boyfriend situation.  I told her that I was far from happy with her behaviour and that I would think over whether or not she could stay and give my decision on Sunday night.  Monday is the start of a new payment cycle; therefore, if I give her 2 weeks notice on Sunday night, it is simple to work out the finances.  And, I think it will be a good lesson letting Lodger sweat for a few days while she waits my decision.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: citadelle on May 03, 2013, 11:04:40 PM
Honestly, OP, you are taking on the role of mother with this woman. Give her notice and be done. And do some careful thinking about whether a lodger is right for you.

I am sorry it has been a hassle. Good luck.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 04, 2013, 12:30:19 AM
The previous poster was so right. I read that story and kept thinking, "Yes, MOM!"

OP, that post was an excellent example of what we're talking about.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on May 04, 2013, 01:19:04 AM
I would have kicked her out the moment she swore at me. You need to think about the lessons you are teaching your son.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: MariaE on May 04, 2013, 01:29:07 AM
If you've already made up your mind, let her know now. Letting her "sweat until Sunday" just because you can is plain mean and petty.

If you haven't made up your mind and really need this time to think it over, then I think that in itself should be your answer. Kicking her while she's down or not, you're doing both of you a disservice.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: GLaDOS on May 04, 2013, 01:40:03 AM
Cuddlepie, please just give her notice and have done with her, or if you're in real need of the money, set up a new tenant and give her notice when you're ready to move the next one in. I don't think that you two are a good match (and honestly, I'm not convinced she'd be a good match for any but the strictest, most ironhearted landlords given some of her behavior). I think that you've started off on the back foot because you muddled the waters in the business relationship from the beginning and from your last post, she views you as her naggy mother who just can't let her /be/. Her boyfriend liking her, but not liking her enough to visit her is not your problem. Her issues with her father is not your problem, and from your posts, it could be a bid for sympathy because she was a big fat jerk to you and she realised she leaped over the line with both feet.

You wouldn't be kicking her when she was down if you decided you didn't want someone throwing tantrums at you whenever she had a bad day.

So, I'd sit down and have a firm idea of what you expect from a lodger before you start advertising again. And honestly, if the price is right and you're mostly reasonable about your rules, you'll find someone who will abide by them. I think you need to be clear about what you expect from the jump. Be assertive and proactive! "We all use our own blankets if we're chilling on the sofa." "I prefer that no dishes be left out, and since we'll all be using the kitchen, we'll leave it so someone else can use it without having to clean." "This is my system for cleaning, and you can find things here, here, and here." "We keep the temperature at this level. If you want, you can  pay more towards the heating and we'll decide on a temperature, or you can get an electric heater."

I also think for you, it would be best to maintain a friendly business relationship at the most. I think we're the same way in that once you get to know someone, you bend over backwards to help them if they're down. That's great for friends, but as you can see, it can bite you with things like accepting a lower rent for a good sob story. Good fences make good neighbors, and clear expectations and firm boundaries on both sides will make it so much easier for both of you.  Plus, you can just relax instead of having to  keep worrying about whether it's passive aggressive to put your dishes on hers, or if it's just you that doesn't like sharing blankets (you're not), or if you'll seem like a bait-and-switch if you come up with a bunch of rules now.


If you do decide to keep her (and I don't think you should.), when you talk to her on Sunday, I'd renegotiate how you're doing things and set out like she's a new tenant. Discuss what you will and won't tolerate and make it clear what will get her served notice.

Good luck to you!
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 04, 2013, 01:43:12 AM
Quote
And, I think it will be a good lesson letting Lodger sweat for a few days while she waits my decision.

No. That is called being vindictive and mean. And not really what I'd expect from a professional landlady.

If you want her out, say so. Pull this bandaid off and go on. But all this mommying and wishywashyness isn't good for either of you.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 04, 2013, 02:26:16 AM
Quote
And, I think it will be a good lesson letting Lodger sweat for a few days while she waits my decision.

No. That is called being vindictive and mean. And not really what I'd expect from a professional landlady.

If you want her out, say so. Pull this bandaid off and go on. But all this mommying and wishywashyness isn't good for either of you.

OP replying here.  The main reason for waiting a few days, is for me.  I want to think with a clear head not an emotional, this required a day or two for me to calm down. I explained my reason exactly to Lodger, therefore her sweating it out is a by-product of my needs, rather than me deliberately being a meany.  I still think Lodger waiting for my answer will let her think twice before pulling the same stunt on me or anyone/landlord for that matter.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: perpetua on May 04, 2013, 02:41:01 AM
OP, you are not this poor girl's mother.

Please, give her notice - *decent* notice - and allow her to find somewhere else more amenable to live. It must be a nightmare for her.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hmmmmm on May 04, 2013, 04:49:31 AM
Quote
And, I think it will be a good lesson letting Lodger sweat for a few days while she waits my decision.

No. That is called being vindictive and mean. And not really what I'd expect from a professional landlady.

If you want her out, say so. Pull this bandaid off and go on. But all this mommying and wishywashyness isn't good for either of you.

OP replying here.  The main reason for waiting a few days, is for me.  I want to think with a clear head not an emotional, this required a day or two for me to calm down. I explained my reason exactly to Lodger, therefore her sweating it out is a by-product of my needs, rather than me deliberately being a meany.  I still think Lodger waiting for my answer will let her think twice before pulling the same stunt on me or anyone/landlord for that matter.

OP, do you not see that you are taking on role of parent? Or that you are allowing her to emotionally manipulate you just as kids try to do with their parents.

You demanded an apology about her swearing at you and gave her 24 hour to apologize. What was to happen if she didn't? Give her a time out.

When you returned to the kitchen to find her using it, why didnt you just tell her she'd need to wait till you were done. She can't have gotten too much started while you were only gone to the bathroom.

Of course she wants to stay. She's talked you down on the rent and out of requiring a deposit. She eats your food, doesn't follow your requests, and takes over any space she wants when she wants it.

This is a business relationship. You do not need to worry about her father or her boyfriend. Getting engaged at that level paves the way next month for when she looses her income to talk you into giving her a pass in rent or worse getting you to loan money for food.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Queen of Clubs on May 04, 2013, 05:19:13 AM
At this point, I'd be wondering if the lodger actually is having problems with her father and boyfriend or whether this is another sob story to pull at the OP's heartstrings.  She's already shown she's willing to lie with all that guff about the finances.

Even if it's true, why is the OP to blame for the boyfriend's actions?  That's some messed up thinking right there.

OP, I don't know whether you're suitable for having a lodger or not, but it doesn't sound like you're a suitable landlord for this lodger.  She lies, she manipulates, she breaks the house rules and she's running rings around you.  Give her notice and be done.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: thedudeabides on May 04, 2013, 07:59:02 AM
Stop trying to parent her, give her notice, and carry on. Some of her behavior has been lousy, but you've also been out of line - 24 hours to apologize? Come on, you're not her mom and she's not an unruly teenager. Making her stew over whether or not you're going to kick her out? This is clearly not working, so don't leave her hanging.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on May 04, 2013, 10:46:32 AM
Honestly, OP, you are taking on the role of mother with this woman. Give her notice and be done. And do some careful thinking about whether a lodger is right for you.

I am sorry it has been a hassle. Good luck.

I've said it before, you're in the "mom" position.

You are not her mother. You should not be trying to make her sweat. You should simply decide what you want and go there.

and as I've thought of this thread, I'm not absolutely certain that you shoudl not have ANY lodger, but you really need to have the right mindset.

You're a landlord, and you are not supposed to "fix" anything for her--not her finances, and not her behavior.
In your own mind, and in hers now, you are.


The moment she called you a name was a time to throw her out.
Honestly! The sofa throw and the dish rack problems are, individually, things I think are small. If they were the only problems, I'd say you just needed to work on something small.

But yelling at you and swearing at you and calling you names in your own home? Beyond the pale. And proof that the balance of power is off.

And you know what else? It doesn't matter about her father or her brother or anything. You should never even have that come up in conversation. It's completely irrelevant.

She called you names in your own home. Give her notice, and think a bit before you start out with someone else. Get your mental orientation right.

You're in some sort of "mother / host" relationship. I think it must be tough being a "lodger landlady" as opposed to a roommate; it's a completely different dynamic.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: artk2002 on May 04, 2013, 11:03:10 AM
What would be the advantage to you in letting her stay? Is she the last potential lodger on the planet? (Hint: Nope) Is she enhancing your life? (Hint: Nope) Is she paying you above-market rates? (Hint: Nope)

I honestly don't see why you won't just give her notice now. She's extremely rude, has admitted to deliberately  trying to make you upset and all but admitted that she lied about her financial situation to get a break out of you. This is not a nice person. As others have pointed out, you're not responsible for her issues with her father or boyfriend and she is extremely rude for trying to make those issues your problem too.

If you want to "mother" her, then be a good mother. A good mother lets their child feel the consequences of their bad actions, in appropriate proportion to the child's age. The correct consequence of this lodger's actions is eviction. That's what happens to adults who can't get along with their landlord.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 04, 2013, 11:05:21 AM
OP, you might want to step back here and consider that you have many posters on many pages now saying exactly the same thing to you. How many people here have looked at this relationship and noted that you're acting like a mother instead of a landlord?

Granted, the decision as to what role you want to take is up to you. But choose it and follow through with it. If you want to mother her, that's fine. But choose that path and go 100% with it. Not only partially and then muddying the water with something else.

Or be a true landlady. That doesn't mean you lose compassion for your lodger if they need it - I don't mean become cold. But there is a difference between a lady lady and a mom. Be one or the other.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: citadelle on May 04, 2013, 11:37:07 AM
Quote
And, I think it will be a good lesson letting Lodger sweat for a few days while she waits my decision.

No. That is called being vindictive and mean. And not really what I'd expect from a professional landlady.

If you want her out, say so. Pull this bandaid off and go on. But all this mommying and wishywashyness isn't good for either of you.

OP replying here.  The main reason for waiting a few days, is for me.  I want to think with a clear head not an emotional, this required a day or two for me to calm down. I explained my reason exactly to Lodger, therefore her sweating it out is a by-product of my needs, rather than me deliberately being a meany.  I still think Lodger waiting for my answer will let her think twice before pulling the same stunt on me or anyone/landlord for that matter.

I disagree wholeheartedly with the bolded. Waiting for your answer will not make her "think twice" about anything. Yes, it may put her in a submissive position, but most adults who are put in a submissive position will react by asserting what power they do have, not by feeling chastened. And, it emphatically is not your role to chasten her anyway.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Van down by the river on May 04, 2013, 01:36:22 PM
I agree with most of what has been said. This is the first lodger you've taken in ever, if I'm understanding correctly. Mistakes were made on both sides. I'd give her notice immediately, chalk it up to a learning experience and move on from there. When I read the post about the kitten and from all the updates, I can pretty much guarantee that there would be "some reason" why ain't and uncle couldn't take the kitten so she would have to keep it for herself. She sounds quite immature and manipulative. I've had many roommates. I have one now. I recognize the type of person and I've learned to read the signs where roommates are concerned. I'm thinking it might be good for you to look for someone older, or at least more mature that doesn't start out in the beginning lamenting about how broke they are. That never sets a good precedent for a business relationship. Look for some one polite, tidy in appearance and that has the funds for a deposit and first rent. At this point, when lodger moves any damage done to the room or anything that was taken will have to be repaired/replaced this will come out of your pocket and you may find yourself set back more than the lodgers money brought in. You must protect yourself and your son. If you do decide to try another lodger, keep it professional. Anything you don't want a tenant using goes in your room. If you expect the kitchen clean and clutter free say so. And address it as soon as an infraction occurs. Leave a note if you wish.
Best of luck to you in this situation.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: FauxFoodist on May 04, 2013, 02:41:18 PM
I don't think the OP is not fit to have a lodger. I see this as either 1) the OP learning what rules she needs to have for lodgers or 2) a bad landlord/lodger mix.

I think this is the key. I also wouldn't see you as someone who should not have a lodger at all. I just don;t think you should have *this* lodger (I think that you kindness in lowering the rent and not requiring a deposit at the beginning probably put you onto the back foot, as it moved the arrangments way from the formal landlord/lodger one from the beginning.

Reading all the posts, it seems as though you're very uncomfortable with coming out and directly addressing the issues with the lodger, and are then frustrated when she doesn't pick up on what are (to you) very clear hints.

Like PPs, if I saw your clean dishes stacked on top of mine, it would never occur to me that this was a PA way of telling me to put my dishes away.  On the other hand, if you said to me "Please can you make sure you put your dishes away straight after you wash up/ no later than [time] as they get in the way of the microwave door, and it's awkward having to dig through the heap to get utensils I need when I'm cooking" I would know exactly what you meant, have a clear rule to follow, and I'd do what you asked.  It would also give me the opening to put forward alternative options.

I think from what you've said, this is the first time you've had a lodger. I would treat it as a learning experience. Think about what things are really important to you and work out what the house rules are, bearing in mind that there will always be some compromises and some things you dislike about sharing with *anyone*.

For some of the specifics you've mentioned, the rules might be things like:

  • no overnight guests save by prior agreement
  • thermostat is normally kept at [temp] you are welcome to buy an extra heater for your room, on the basis that you pay any additional electricity costs
  • you will have [details of fridge and cupboard space] for your own food, crockery and utensils.
  • you will have use of the cooking pans, baking sheets [or whatever is appropriate]. These must be washed up, dried and put away after each meal

    I think things like which dish-cloths/cleaning materials to use would be part of the orientation when  someone moves in.
    Things like what time you habitually get up, go to work, and come home are stuff which would be discussed when someone first looks round, before they commit to moving in, so you can discuss expectations at that time - I agree that avoiding vacuuming when someone in the household is sleeping is common courtesy, but knowing in advance whether a new housemate is likely to be up at 5 or not until 8 helps you both to decide whether it is a good fit.

    Good luck.
I'm in agreement here, but I see that I'm part of the minority.  I don't see anything wrong with some of your preferences, but you *do* need to communicate them and communicate them clearly.

I wouldn't be okay with a lodger constantly leaving the dishes to dry, but my preference is to dry the dishes immediately after washing them (as much as possible) and putting them away so the whole task is done.  I'd hate to have to regularly deal with someone else's dishes drying.


OP here.

There’s been a couple of things happen that have not endeared Lodger.

Pottery Barn is coming to Australia .... heard this while Lodger and I were watching the news. I was about to say that it looked like PB could have some nice things at decent prices, when Lodger cut me off with a comment saying she was a tightwad and wouldn’t pay more than $2 for the item being shown on the news story.  That’s OK, her choice.  Then she goes on saying she tries to pay as little as possible for everything, again her choice.  This discussion diverges to the point where I suddenly realise that Lodger wasn’t as short on funds as she intimated at our first meeting.  Silly me for falling for that and not staying firm on what I wanted for room and not being firm on a bond being required.  I truly don’t think that Lodger realises what she accidently let slip there.

The following evening I dropped my indoor plant that I was taking back inside from the front porth.  Broken pot and potting mix everywhere at front door and close to Lodger bedroom door.  Lodger opens her door and crossly says she was trying to sleep.  It was 5pm, by the way.  I was surprised by her manner and mumbled that I was sorry.  Lodger called me a few choice names and slammed her door shut.  I yelled (as in talked loudly rather than angrily, even thought I was) and said that I was sorry that I woke her and in future I would not tolerate being spoken to in those words, especially as it was an accident.  Her reply was not polite, so I said she had 24hrs to apologise.  Snarky reply from her and I repeated that she had 24hrs.

Lodger always cooks her dinner earlier than I do.  But at 6pm as she was still in her room I presumed she was sleeping and cooked mine.  My meal was cooking and I popped away from kitchen to use the bathroom, came back to find that Lodger had taken over the kitchen and stove, never said a word to me.  The kitchen is not built for two cooks.

I went to my bedroom and counted to 10 before confronting Lodger.  I’m glad I did so, by taking extra time to think what I wanted to say to her had me realising that something had been ‘off’ with Lodger for a week or more and my gut told me something was bothering her.  I returned to the kitchen and sternly said that I wanted to talk with her after we both had eaten.

Long story short (ha ha) Lodger’s father was being a downright jerk and the kicker .... Lodger’s new boyfriend had stopped phoning nor returning her calls and she was blaming me.  Apparently, he did not want to do the extra driving required to meet up with her and had cooled.  Therefore, my fault because I did not agree to have him sleep-over during the week.  I sympathised with her problems and when she stopped crying I asked her how she felt about living in my house.  At this point, I’d had enough attitude, and was considering giving her notice to move out, but felt like I would be kicking her while she was down. That’s not a good feeling at all.

Lodger wants to stay and after some probing from me, admitted to being angry and trying to p.i.s.s. me off because of the boyfriend situation.  I told her that I was far from happy with her behaviour and that I would think over whether or not she could stay and give my decision on Sunday night.  Monday is the start of a new payment cycle; therefore, if I give her 2 weeks notice on Sunday night, it is simple to work out the finances.  And, I think it will be a good lesson letting Lodger sweat for a few days while she waits my decision.

This lodger has clearly not been a good fit from the start, and she's extremely immature with the name-calling then admitting that she's been acting like a child in order to upset you.  I don't know why you need to think about it; I'd just tell her she needs to go as it is clearly not a good fit (you might want to make sure you or son are home, though, until she leaves because I wouldn't put it past her to do something petty in retaliation).
[/list]
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 04, 2013, 06:40:15 PM
Hi Everyone,

Thank you for the posts.  Some of you brought up points to be considered that I had not thought about.

At the moment, I am listening for sounds that Lodger is up and about.  (Guess she slept sounder than I did.  :(   )  I am sick to my stomach as my decision is to ask Lodger to move out and I'm dreading her immediate reaction.

Again, thanks for all your different perspectives.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: FauxFoodist on May 04, 2013, 06:48:19 PM
Hi Everyone,

Thank you for the posts.  Some of you brought up points to be considered that I had not thought about.

At the moment, I am listening for sounds that Lodger is up and about.  (Guess she slept sounder than I did.  :(   )  I am sick to my stomach as my decision is to ask Lodger to move out and I'm dreading her immediate reaction.

Again, thanks for all your different perspectives.

If you decide to let her stay after all, I'd raise the rent back to what you originally asked for, require the bond from her (to be paid immediately or she needs to leave because if you give her time, she'll put it off for one reason or other since she tries to get away with paying less) and a list (verbally, if better) of what you want her to do as your lodger, effective immediately and non-negotiable.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Calypso on May 04, 2013, 06:51:02 PM
Good luck.  Keep breathing. Don't let yourself get drawn into a discussion---you've made a decision, you're informing her of it, and that's it. Nothing she can throw at you is your problem. You have all the rights here, including the right to not let her mess you up.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: artk2002 on May 04, 2013, 07:48:46 PM
Remember this: No matter what she says or does, you are the landlord. You have the absolute right to end her tenancy. You are not responsible for her relationships, her happiness or her financial condition.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on May 04, 2013, 08:15:38 PM
I still think Lodger waiting for my answer will let her think twice before pulling the same stunt on me or anyone/landlord for that matter.

It won't. It'll just give her time to justify her actions to herself.

If you want to make her think twice  before pulling the same stunt on you or on anybody, then just kick her out immediately.

"I will not be yelled at, spoken to rudely, or sworn at and called names in my own home. You have two weeks."

THAT might make her think.

But, it's not your role to try to "make her think."

I see you're going to tell her you want her to leave.
Good move.

True, a lodger should feel comfortable in their home. But not THAT comfortable. Frankly, even her *MOTHER* shouldn't put up with it.


Be strong. The low-drama way to tell her to move (well, low-ER) is to say, "This is not a good fit. It's not working out."

The high-drama way is to say, "You yelled at me, swore at me, and called me names. You treated me rudely. This is my home. I won't have that. No landlord would have that. You have to leave. You have X notice."
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hmmmmm on May 05, 2013, 09:03:16 AM
Hi Everyone,

Thank you for the posts.  Some of you brought up points to be considered that I had not thought about.

At the moment, I am listening for sounds that Lodger is up and about.  (Guess she slept sounder than I did.  :(   )  I am sick to my stomach as my decision is to ask Lodger to move out and I'm dreading her immediate reaction.

Again, thanks for all your different perspectives.

OP, I hope it went ok. The fact you are physically impacted about the discussion is evidence you are too emotionally involved. This is a business relationship. You are not kicking out a friend or relative.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Calypso on May 06, 2013, 11:37:40 AM
Cuddlepie...how did it go?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 08, 2013, 06:52:21 PM
Cuddlepie...how did it go?

When I told Lodger that she had 2 weeks to move out, she was surprised and not happy at all.  I guess she didn't think I would actually do so.  There was no foul language or name calling which was a relief.

During those couple of days while I was deciding whether or not to give Lodger a second chance, her behaviour was very good.  No dishes left in the drainer and she was very quiet and definitely more polite.  Since getting her notice .... not so good, in fact I suspect that she is doing funny little things, such as moving my stuff around in the pantry, moving the microwave out of position etc.   ::)

I took a few precautions just in case Lodger damages anything, but I don't think she will.

Fingers crossed she leaves quietly next week-end.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Miss Unleaded on May 08, 2013, 07:29:56 PM
Good luck.  For what it's worth, I think you made the right decision.  Hopefully this will serve as a good practice run and your next lodger (if you choose to get one) will be more pleasant to live with.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: bopper on May 10, 2013, 10:10:16 AM
At this point, I'd be wondering if the lodger actually is having problems with her father and boyfriend or whether this is another sob story to pull at the OP's heartstrings.  She's already shown she's willing to lie with all that guff about the finances.

Even if it's true, why is the OP to blame for the boyfriend's actions?  That's some messed up thinking right there.

OP, I don't know whether you're suitable for having a lodger or not, but it doesn't sound like you're a suitable landlord for this lodger.  She lies, she manipulates, she breaks the house rules and she's running rings around you.  Give her notice and be done.

I bet she is having problems with the BF...she is a "taker/user"...since she has to actually put forth effort to see BF and can't have him come over to stay with her he might be saying, "Wait a minute, I will go see her but she won't take effort to see me?"

I agree...the OP wanted a lodger, not a moocher.  Time to let the moocher mooch off someone else. 
If you get a new lodger, then you just be firm on all finances and have a list of "rules" that you say "I am sure some of these seem obvious, but they were not to the previous lodger so I want to make sure that everything is out front and understood between us."
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: CakeBeret on May 10, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
I'm glad you gave her notice.

I would chalk this up to a learning experience and take a look at what could be useful for your next lodger. For example:

Have a no-haggle rent price. Here is the rent, take it or leave it.
The deposit is $X and due on or before move-in day. No exceptions.
Rent is due on X date. No exceptions. If rent is late more than two times in a 12-month period, or is more than 10 days past due at any time, you will be evicted.
Either party can terminate the agreement with 2 weeks' notice.
House Rules that must be agreed upon as a condition of renting:
-The temperature will be set to X. You can bring a space heater, but if you do, there will be an extra $X electricity fee
-Quiet hours are 10PM-7AM (or whatever)
-Guests are acceptable but will not be allowed to stay overnight
-No pets, for any amount of time, under any circumstances
-Cleanliness is a top priority. You will be expected to adhere to the house cleanliness standards.
       -(list of house cleanliness standards)
-We will each buy and maintain our own consumable goods (TP, food, medicine) and they are not to be shared.
etc.

And you can present this as a *positive* thing. Here are the things you can expect from me and that I will expect from you. By mutually agreeing on these standards, it ensures that we will be happy and comfortable with the arrangements. These standards may turn some lodgers away--but that is a good thing! That means that you will get a lodger who can and will abide by your house rules. You can even give potential lodgers a typed-up list so that there are no misunderstandings or miscommunications.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on May 10, 2013, 12:35:26 PM
Clap, clap, clap for CakeBeret.

And, along with the "here's the rent, not negotiable," remember to tell yourself, "I am not going to solve any problems for the lodger."
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 10, 2013, 01:06:29 PM
And both of you need to sign the agreement that is drawn up.  It needs to be a "contract" that's agreed upon, in writing, by both parties.

I'd also see if there is anything the renter would like to add to the agreement before it's signed.  It does need to be fair for both parties.  You may or may not accept their suggestion and agree to put it into the document.  But they may have something in mind that you'd hadn't thought of.  Never dismiss a possible suggestion before it's offered.  You may find that you have a renter who's more knowledgeable about this than you are and has some ideas you hadn't considered.  Ones that actually do benefit you.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 11, 2013, 07:08:45 PM
Up till now, Lodger has not told me whether or not she has a new place to live in.  Last night I asked her if she knew when she would be moving out and she tersely replied that she has not found anywhere yet.  I suspect that she has not even tried to find somewhere as she hasn't been anywhere except to uni.  >:(
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Amara on May 11, 2013, 07:45:47 PM
She might be hoping you'll change your mind. I wouldn't ask her any more about her plans. I assume you set not just a date but also a time for the move-out deadline?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Morticia on May 11, 2013, 07:46:43 PM
I wouldn't ask, either. Whether or not she has a new place is irrelevant. She has her move out date. If she ends up homeless, that is on her.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: gramma dishes on May 11, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
...    Last night I asked her if she knew when she would be moving out ...

Umm ... she knows when she is moving out, right?  Didn't you tell her two weeks? 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: artk2002 on May 11, 2013, 08:41:57 PM
Don't ask, tell!!
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on May 11, 2013, 09:28:32 PM
you gave her, her move out day. If she is not out by that date - be prepared to legally evict her.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: TootsNYC on May 11, 2013, 11:06:59 PM
Up till now, Lodger has not told me whether or not she has a new place to live in.  Last night I asked her if she knew when she would be moving out and she tersely replied that she has not found anywhere yet.  I suspect that she has not even tried to find somewhere as she hasn't been anywhere except to uni.  >:(

But you KNOW when she is moving out. Two weeks from when you gave her notice.

The more you ask her ANYTHING about it, and if you keep using words like that, you are giving her openings to exploit.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: AngelicGamer on May 11, 2013, 11:19:02 PM
I'm really hoping the when is a typo.  OP, please come back and tell us it's a typo.  If only so I don't have to keep on clinging so tightly to that hope.  ;D
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 12, 2013, 12:20:35 AM
Up till now, Lodger has not told me whether or not she has a new place to live in.  Last night I asked her if she knew when she would be moving out and she tersely replied that she has not found anywhere yet.  I suspect that she has not even tried to find somewhere as she hasn't been anywhere except to uni.  >:(

"When she would be moving out" was a brief post of my question to Lodger.  My question to her was worded  which day, Saturday or Sunday and what time, as I want to be at home when she goes.  Sorry to confuse you  :-[.

Edited to add:  I am going to get 'official advice' from a government dept so I know what I can legally do, if Lodger refuses to move out next week-end.  She is 'sick' today and I doubt whether she is looking for new lodgings, even after my prompting last night.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Redsoil on May 12, 2013, 03:48:16 AM
"Lodger, don't forget you'll need to have your items organised to move out on *date*.  I'll need the keys back before you go, and if you have an address you'd like to leave with me, I can forward on any mail."  Then stop - do not budge on this point.  She IS moving out, you're simply taking care of minor details that this involves.  She can go live with her parents, or a freind or even the YHA if needed.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: FauxFoodist on May 12, 2013, 11:21:56 AM
I, too, am not sure why you are asking if she has yet found a place or asking her when she'll be moving out.  She has an end date; I'd be prepared to be home all day both days of the weekend if not sure.  Actually, if you have given her until Sunday, then she would have until Sunday (if you gave her until Saturday, then you need to maintain she only has through Saturday to be out...then change the locks).  As the lodger, I'd wonder why it was any of your business if I found a place yet and would resent you for asking given the circumstances (e.g. -- why would you care as you are making me leave).
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 12, 2013, 04:46:38 PM
It certainly is my business to know when Lodger is moving out and since she hasn't mentioned anything to me, I am within my rights to follow this up with her.  Lodger doesn't have her own transport and she told me she would ask her aunt and uncle which day they would be free and what time and then let me know.  She has not done this, therefore I am being proactive just in case she thinks I will let matters slide and she can stay longer.

If Lodger told me it was none of my business and I could stay home all weekend waiting for her to leave, me accommodating her and her relatives schedule would stop and Lodger would be given a day and time.  I presume that in the eyes of the law reasonableness works both ways!
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on May 12, 2013, 04:51:23 PM
My landlady wanted to know when I was moving out.  I don't think that is unreasonable, especially so when the lodger is moving out of OP's house.  She needs to know what day there will be people coming in and out carrying furniture and/or boxes so that she can plan around it. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: citadelle on May 12, 2013, 05:01:31 PM
I think the point of it is not to become enmeshed in the details of her moving out. Who, how, timing, etc.. really do not matter to you. What matters is that she is gone on the date you've given.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 12, 2013, 05:09:13 PM
I think the point of it is not to become enmeshed in the details of her moving out. Who, how, timing, etc.. really do not matter to you. What matters is that she is gone on the date you've given.

The details do matter to me.  I need to be home.  Firstly, to ensure that nothing of mine is accidently taken by Lodger and secondly, we need to sign off on paperwork detailing any damages that may or may not be caused by Lodger and her relatives.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 12, 2013, 11:10:55 PM
Quote
we need to sign off on paperwork detailing any damages that may or may not be caused by Lodger and her relatives.

Do you have a similar list of conditions when she moved in, so you have a comparison? If not, it's something you should have done - and need to do if you have another boarder. That should be standard. If you don't have that (signed by both parties), you're going to potentially have a hard time if she contests any damages.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 12, 2013, 11:21:23 PM
Quote
we need to sign off on paperwork detailing any damages that may or may not be caused by Lodger and her relatives.

Do you have a similar list of conditions when she moved in, so you have a comparison? If not, it's something you should have done - and need to do if you have another boarder. That should be standard. If you don't have that (signed by both parties), you're going to potentially have a hard time if she contests any damages.

Yes,  I typed sheet listing everything as unmarked and undamaged and also photos of the walls and the funiture.  Lodger and I both signed and dated these.  She has a copy and I have a copy
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hollanda on May 13, 2013, 05:03:47 AM
I think it is a good idea for you to be at home when she leaves. I'd be worried about something getting damaged by her..  :(
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: gramma dishes on May 13, 2013, 10:12:39 AM
I think it is a good idea for you to be at home when she leaves. I'd be worried about something getting damaged by her..  :(

I agree.  It sounds like she might be the sort to do something vindictive.  She probably wouldn't, but it's still safer to be there while the move out is taking place. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: doodlemor on May 13, 2013, 10:34:18 AM
Be careful of the plumbing, too.  A close friend of ours had a disgruntled young woman tenant flush lady products down the toilet to plug it.  Her husband had to dig up the pipes and clear them out.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DavidH on May 13, 2013, 10:56:34 AM
Presumably she can start moving her stuff out whenever she wants.  The only part you need to be there for is to do a final walk through and to sign the paperwork.  Since you didn't take a deposit, you will likely need to sue her if you need to collect additional money, since she doesn't sound like she will be forthcoming with it.

"If Lodger told me it was none of my business and I could stay home all weekend waiting for her to leave, me accommodating her and her relatives schedule would stop and Lodger would be given a day and time.  I presume that in the eyes of the law reasonableness works both ways" 

I don't think you are being reasonable at all.  You gave her notice to move out.  A landlord doesn't get to tell you when you need to move unless that was in the initial contract, just when you need to be out by.  If you want to be there, that's understandable, but you're going to need to work around her schedule.

Just as making her wait for the decision was teaching her a lesson, this is doing the same.  As long as she's out by her last day, how she accomplishes this is really up to her.  From a practical standpoint, what can you do if she doesn't tell you when she's planning on moving out, make her stay, not let her move out even though the deadline has past?

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 11:48:39 AM
Cuddlepie,
Your goal is for her to pack up her possessions and leave your home – period.  Where she goes after she leaves is not your concern.  You don’t know for sure whether or not she is looking, and that is also not your concern.

You shouldn’t be speculating about what you assume she is thinking- that serves no purpose.

Yes, you should be there when she actually moves out and it might be a good idea to have someone else also be there.

Did you give her written notice?  (It's important your notice is written, not just verbal.) Then she needs to move by the end of the day on that date.  She needs to organize and pack her things and probably get help moving.  Asking her “when are you moving” is only annoying her and right now she doesn’t have an exact date and time.  When she does, I think she will let you know.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 13, 2013, 11:50:57 AM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Shoo on May 13, 2013, 11:52:35 AM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 13, 2013, 11:54:50 AM
Quote
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

And no one is saying she should.  But the boarder does have rights here as well.  And being hounded as to when she's planning to move isn't the OP's place to be doing.  As long as she's out by the deadline (and I, like a previous poster, hope that that was in writing and not verbal), she's done what she is required to do.

Likewise, it's none of the OP's business as to where the boarder is going next - other than the ability to forward her mail to her.

I agree with David, Cuddlepie is being taught some things here, too.  All of this "learning" isn't just for the boarder to be doing here.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 13, 2013, 11:55:34 AM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.


I've not read where Cuddlepie has asked where she's moving.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 13, 2013, 12:05:58 PM
Quote
Up till now, Lodger has not told me whether or not she has a new place to live in

LW, this isn't CP's place to ask.  The only thing she needs is for the boarder to move by the deadline.  Where she goes after that point - or whether she has a new place to live - is not her concern.  As long as the boarder is out by the deadline, she can live anywhere - a friend's house, a hotel, another house like the OP's, under a bridge, wherever.  That's not the OP's business to be asking.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 13, 2013, 12:08:05 PM
Quote
Up till now, Lodger has not told me whether or not she has a new place to live in

LW, this isn't CP's place to ask.  The only thing she needs is for the boarder to move by the deadline.  Where she goes after that point - or whether she has a new place to live - is not her concern.  As long as the boarder is out by the deadline, she can live anywhere - a friend's house, a hotel, another house like the OP's, under a bridge, wherever.  That's not the OP's business to be asking.

I see asking if she has some place to move as being part of the question of when she will move. It's no big deal to me at all.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 12:09:32 PM
Boarder needs to file a change of address as soon as she has a new address.  That’s her responsibility, and I would not want to deal with her mail for very long.  As far as any mail that might come in the interim (before the change takes effect), maybe the two of you can come to an agreement about placing her mail in a concealed place on the porch or someplace.

OP, you don’t need to know what her plans are.  As far as fear about “damages”, well, just use common sense.  No need to get melodramatic.  (I'm not saying you are, just that there's no need.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Shoo on May 13, 2013, 12:09:42 PM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.


I've not read where Cuddlepie has asked where she's moving.

I didn't say she did.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 13, 2013, 12:10:51 PM
We had a somewhat similiar situation with my family.  We had someone that was renting a condo from us.  This was someone we like and trust.  Long story short, though, she was supposed to have the condo on the market to sell.  She wasn't doing that.  So we had to go ahead and put it on the market ourselves.  Not long ago, it did sell.  And the lady had to move out.

I asked my parents just this past weekend where she went.  They said that they think she went to live near her son.  But that it's really not their concern.  There was a deadline, she moved out, and where she went at that point was up to her.

This is someone we like.  So it's not just a situation that occurs with a person like the OP and her boarder where there are problems.  Once a resident in your home, condo, whatever leaves, where they go isn't the other person's business.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 12:14:49 PM
Quote
Once a resident in your home, condo, whatever leaves, where they go isn't the other person's business.

I agree.  Whether the person has found a place, whether they are looking, where they are going to be staying - none of that is the business of the landlord (especially in these circumstances).  It's not like there are friends.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 13, 2013, 12:16:30 PM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.


I've not read where Cuddlepie has asked where she's moving.

I didn't say she did.

No. 203:

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: gramma dishes on May 13, 2013, 12:19:03 PM
...  As far as any mail that might come in the interim (before the change takes effect), maybe the two of you can come to an agreement about placing her mail in a concealed place on the porch or someplace.   ...


I personally would not want to leave it on my porch or anywhere else near my home.  That would seem (to me) to make me accountable for its safety.  I think I'd just print the words:  "No longer at this address." on the envelope and let the post office deal with it.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 12:23:20 PM
...  As far as any mail that might come in the interim (before the change takes effect), maybe the two of you can come to an agreement about placing her mail in a concealed place on the porch or someplace.   ...


I personally would not want to leave it on my porch or anywhere else near my home.  That would seem (to me) to make me accountable for its safety.  I think I'd just print the words:  "No longer at this address." on the envelope and let the post office deal with it.

Yes, that might be best.  When she actually moves out I might remind her to file a change of address with the post office if she hadn't done so.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: gramma dishes on May 13, 2013, 12:27:54 PM
...  I think I'd just print the words:  "No longer at this address." on the envelope and let the post office deal with it.

Advance warning:  momentary threadjack

Can one of you English majors tell me how to handle that double sentence I wrote above.  I seem to remember that you don't include any finalizing mark (period, question mark, exclamation point) until the end of the sentence, but sometimes the enclosed sentence being quoted may have a different quotation mark than the sentence in its entirety.  I know I screwed that up in that sentence (even though in that case there weren't conflicting end points), but don't know how it really should have been written.

Can someone please jog my memory on this?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Miss Unleaded on May 13, 2013, 01:18:36 PM
It feels as though in the eyes of a lot of Ehellions the OP can't do anything right at this point.  Also this conversation is dangerously close to entering legal territory. 

I'm really not seeing where the OP did wrong in trying to ascertain when her tenant was moving out.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on May 13, 2013, 01:22:06 PM
It feels as though in the eyes of a lot of Ehellions the OP can't do anything right at this point.  Also this conversation is dangerously close to entering legal territory. 

I'm really not seeing where the OP did wrong in trying to ascertain when her tenant was moving out.

Agreed. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 01:27:36 PM
Quote
When I told Lodger that she had 2 weeks to move out, she was surprised and not happy at all.  I guess she didn't think I would actually do so.

OP, I see in Post #174 you said you told lodger she has two weeks to move out.  Does this mean you didn't give her written notice?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Shoo on May 13, 2013, 01:30:42 PM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.


I've not read where Cuddlepie has asked where she's moving.

I didn't say she did.

No. 203:

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.

I don't understand why you are nit picking this.  I was only mentioning the kind of info she shouldn't ask for when the tenant moves out.  I didn't say she DID ask for it.  Jeesh.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 13, 2013, 01:33:20 PM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.


I've not read where Cuddlepie has asked where she's moving.

I didn't say she did.

No. 203:

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.

I don't understand why you are nit picking this.  I was only mentioning the kind of info she shouldn't ask for when the tenant moves out.  I didn't say she DID ask for it.  Jeesh.

I wasn't aware that using your own words was picking nits.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Moray on May 13, 2013, 02:00:03 PM
I wouldn't want a hostile person to have one last crack at my home and my possessions without my being present.

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.


I've not read where Cuddlepie has asked where she's moving.

I didn't say she did.

No. 203:

Me either, so I would make sure I was there.  It seems fair to ascertain exactly when that will be, but any info beyond that, like where she's going, if she's found a place yet, etc. is unnecessary.

I don't understand why you are nit picking this.  I was only mentioning the kind of info she shouldn't ask for when the tenant moves out.  I didn't say she DID ask for it.  Jeesh.

I wasn't aware that using your own words was picking nits.

LeveeWoman, Shoo has already clarified that she was using that as a potential example of an inappropriate question, not indicting the OP for asking that question. Maybe it's time to let it go.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: FauxFoodist on May 13, 2013, 02:45:07 PM
Presumably she can start moving her stuff out whenever she wants.  The only part you need to be there for is to do a final walk through and to sign the paperwork.  Since you didn't take a deposit, you will likely need to sue her if you need to collect additional money, since she doesn't sound like she will be forthcoming with it.

"If Lodger told me it was none of my business and I could stay home all weekend waiting for her to leave, me accommodating her and her relatives schedule would stop and Lodger would be given a day and time.  I presume that in the eyes of the law reasonableness works both ways" 

I don't think you are being reasonable at all.  You gave her notice to move out.  A landlord doesn't get to tell you when you need to move unless that was in the initial contract, just when you need to be out by.  If you want to be there, that's understandable, but you're going to need to work around her schedule.

Just as making her wait for the decision was teaching her a lesson, this is doing the same.  As long as she's out by her last day, how she accomplishes this is really up to her.  From a practical standpoint, what can you do if she doesn't tell you when she's planning on moving out, make her stay, not let her move out even though the deadline has past?

Pod, to a point.  Lodger has to move during reasonable hours but, in my experience, "reasonable hours" are not defined by Cuddlepie but by rental laws or agreements.  When DH was moving out of his apartment, he had paid rent on it up to a certain date.  The property manager wanted him out by an earlier date, but I (vehemently) pointed out to DH that he had his apartment until the date that he paid and did not have to be out any sooner.  The only thing the property manager could dictate was the reasonable hours during which DH could move.  This isn't an "I'm doing you a favor so you do me a favor situation"; it's a business transaction.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: dawbs on May 13, 2013, 02:46:56 PM

Pod, to a point.  Lodger has to move during reasonable hours but, in my experience, "reasonable hours" are not defined by Cuddlepie but by rental laws or agreements.  When DH was moving out of his apartment, he had paid rent on it up to a certain date.  The property manager wanted him out by an earlier date, but I (vehemently) pointed out to DH that he had his apartment until the date that he paid and did not have to be out any sooner.  The only thing the property manager could dictate was the reasonable hours during which DH could move.  This isn't an "I'm doing you a favor so you do me a favor situation"; it's a business transaction.

^this is where I land too.

Which is why when I helped property manage/landlord, I didn't care when people moved out, but I would end the discussion with something like "Ok, we will plan on doing the final walkthrough of the property on May 31st.  Does 3:00 work for you?"

Use the assumptive close.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on May 13, 2013, 03:51:05 PM
But did that property manager live in the same house as you?  There is a difference between moving out of an apartment owned by someone else and moving out of someone's home.   The disturbance to the apartment owner is nil, while the home owner who lives in the same space being moved out of is going to have some disruption.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: rashea on May 13, 2013, 04:00:07 PM
I'm glad you asked her to move out. It's just time to see this as a learning opportunity and move on. And I also hope you have the move out date in writing. Take pictures when she moves.

Beyond that, I think that you need to decide what rules you're going to have if you are going to have a lodger. You've learned some things that will drive you nuts, and that's good for you to know. But, you've got a few other issues. You need to come up with a way to talk about issues before they get too bad. And you need to be clear. If you want the dishes put away right away, that's fine. But to me, a dish dryer is there to leave dishes to dry. And that's held true even after I lived in a house with 13 people (5 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1 kitchen, and 4 families). Even there, with 2-3 families making dinner we would leave dishes in the drainer.

So, think about all the things that are important to you. If you have a question of whether something is unique to you, this is a good place to check. And it's fine for you to have those, no one is saying you can't. But you need to be upfront.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 13, 2013, 04:03:49 PM
Quote
So, think about all the things that are important to you.

This is a good statement.

Cuddle, I think a good idea for you is to write down all the things that bug you.  Not just from this boarder, but in general.  If you had "the perfect living environment," what would it look like?  Then go through the list and prioritize it.  Some of the things on that list are the "hills to die on" issues.  But some are not.  You need to create an idea in your head of what kinds of things you can let go in order to allow another person to live with you while still maintaining a happy home for yourself.

I think there are some things on your list from this thread that need to be lower in priority.  It's great if someone feels the same way and does them.  But, if they don't, you need to be able to let them go and not let them get to you.  What those things are need to be decided by you.  What I find "minor" may not be what you do.  And vice versa.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: dawbs on May 13, 2013, 04:06:44 PM
But did that property manager live in the same house as you?  There is a difference between moving out of an apartment owned by someone else and moving out of someone's home.   The disturbance to the apartment owner is nil, while the home owner who lives in the same space being moved out of is going to have some disruption.
True, but beyond 'reasonable hours', I don't think one can really dictate the 'when' of moving out.  And, for many people, it's not at all clear when that 'when' is; moving can be a gradual, multi-day process
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 05:27:09 PM
The concern about “reasonable hours” seems to be a bit premature.  OP asked lodger “when” she was moving (as in what date, not exactly what time).  I’m not seeing any indication that lodger will move at 2:00 in the morning just to annoy OP.  As previously stated, lodger most likely doesn’t know the moving date yet, so OP should back off from asking “when”.

OP says she told lodger she has 2 weeks to move.  Whether or not OP actually gave lodger written notice has not been yet answered.

Quote
If you had "the perfect living environment," what would it look like?  Then go through the list and prioritize it.  Some of the things on that list are the "hills to die on" issues.  But some are not.

Cuddlepie, member DottyG has some good points.  If you decide to get another tenant, you should write down things that bother you.  The dish drainer was quite an issue with you, and that being the case, you should put it in the rules.  Your prospective tenant may decide whether or not to agree to your preferences about the dish drainer.  Then there was the problem about tenant using your blanket - that should be in your list of rules.  However, whether or not a tenant eats enough green vegetables (you also mentioned that) isn’t a landlord's business.

It's your house, and you can make whatever rules you want.  But the more rules and restrictions you have, the harder it might be to get a tenant to go along with everything you want.  If I were you, I'd think long abd hard about whether or not you really want a tenant sharing your home.  If they are paying you money to live there, it's also their home.


Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 13, 2013, 07:32:14 PM
OP here with couple of replies.

@Veronaz:  With me assuming the worst case scenario (ie: lodger refusing to vacate room), I can find legal advice and therefore be prepared to take whatever action is legal where I live.  The relevant govt agency is not available on a weekend which is when lodger should be moving out.

@ a few posters:  I never asked Lodger were she was going to next, and I don't really care and to be honest I don't want to know.  Her mail can be re-directed by the post office, a service that you pay for.  And once again, I will presume here  ::), Lodger will not want to pay for that and will expect me to forward her mail onto her.  Yes, I will do it, BUT, I will not suggest or offer to forward mail, Lodger can remember to ask me, before she goes.

@ 'reasonable treatment vs reasonable hour' :  Game of 'telephone' anyone ????  Somehow me saying that I am required to be 'reasonable' with my dealing with Lodger and moving out (as required by law) became me acting unreasonable and wanting my lodger to vacant an a 'reasonable hour'. 

If, the only time Lodger's uncle can move her and her clothes is 2am, I don't mind (well, a little bit).  When I told lodger I was giving her notice, I said I would work with the day (Sat or Sun) and time that her aunt and uncle were available to move her and her clothes,  and to let me know, so I could be here.  Aunt and Uncle take their children to sporting activities so I was trying to do the right thing by all concerned.

Here is Oz, when you rent a property, you are given a move in/move out time by the property manager, eg 10am.  You cannot get the keys before and when moving out, everything must be out and everything clean by that time and keys handed in as well.  If you want a few days to move, then you take the few days but are still out by the designated day and time as per your lease.

BG re Lodger:  Originally when lodger moved in, she was meant to move in at 11am (her choice of time) on the Saturday, but her uncle turned up early so she ended up with me a little earlier between 9 and 9.30am.  So, her 'time' should be up 9.30am this Sat but I have not asked her to abide by this, giving her the whole weekend (taking into consideration her nieces and nephew and their activities).

After receiving advice from Govt Dept yesterday, I am adjusting the move out day and time to the Monday at 6pm.  (Me giving Lodger  2 days 'free' could come back to bite me as she started paying rent on the Monday).    It's a 'grey area' .. I'm not telling Lodger she has the extra time (Lodger is free to get her own advice if she disputes the timing), but if, she hasn't moved out by Monday evening, then that is the time I can take action to evict her without that 'grey time' being an issue.  Was also advised tell Lodger that I have someone moving in Monday evening, whether or not I have, so there is a deadline that the room will no longer be free for her use. 

I really don't believe that Lodger will damaged anything deliberately but if something should be accidently damaged, our paperwork will allow me to claim costs from her.



I edited this post as I now realise that I used a name for a game that I should not have.  And from now on will educate my friends on the alternate name.  I apologise for my lapse and hope I did not offend any readers.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 13, 2013, 07:43:36 PM
Just out of curiosity, what is this - "Chinese whispers"?  I've never heard of those before.
 


 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 13, 2013, 07:58:52 PM
Sorry, thought 'chinese whispers' was universal.  My bad  :D

I think it started as a party game where everyone stands in a straight line.  The first person has a message/statement whispered into their ear, then that person whispers to the second, second whispers to third and so on.  The last person in the line retells the message as they heard it then the original message is shared.  The final message is usually nothing like the original whisper and is usually hilarious as it does not make any sense at all.

Now days, it is used to say that any message passed along, by any means, has lost its' original meaning.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: snowdragon on May 13, 2013, 08:00:54 PM
Sorry, thought 'chinese whispers' was universal.  My bad  :D

I think it started as a party game where everyone stands in a straight line.  The first person has a message/statement whispered into their ear, then that person whispers to the second, second whispers to third and so on.  The last person in the line retells the message as they heard it then the original message is shared.  The final message is usually nothing like the original whisper and is usually hilarious as it does not make any sense at all.

Now days, it is used to say that any message passed along, by any means, has lost its' original meaning.

In the US we call that "telephone"
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 13, 2013, 08:04:15 PM
Sorry, thought 'chinese whispers' was universal.  My bad  :D

I think it started as a party game where everyone stands in a straight line.  The first person has a message/statement whispered into their ear, then that person whispers to the second, second whispers to third and so on.  The last person in the line retells the message as they heard it then the original message is shared.  The final message is usually nothing like the original whisper and is usually hilarious as it does not make any sense at all.

Now days, it is used to say that any message passed along, by any means, has lost its' original meaning.

In the US we call that "telephone"

I like "telephone" ... much nicer if  you KWIM
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 08:11:52 PM
Quote
@Veronaz:  With me assuming the worst case scenario (ie: lodger refusing to vacate room), I can find legal advice and therefore be prepared to take whatever action is legal where I live.  The relevant govt agency is not available on a weekend which is when lodger should be moving out.

 ???

Cuddlepie, I didn't say anything about legal advice.

However, I did ask if you gave her written notice.

(btw, Chinese whispers is considered to be offensive.)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 13, 2013, 08:23:14 PM
Cuddlepie,
Your goal is for her to pack up her possessions and leave your home – period.  Where she goes after she leaves is not your concern.  You don’t know for sure whether or not she is looking, and that is also not your concern.

You shouldn’t be speculating about what you assume she is thinking- that serves no purpose.
Yes, you should be there when she actually moves out and it might be a good idea to have someone else also be there.

Did you give her written notice?  (It's important your notice is written, not just verbal.) Then she needs to move by the end of the day on that date.  She needs to organize and pack her things and probably get help moving.  Asking her “when are you moving” is only annoying her and right now she doesn’t have an exact date and time.  When she does, I think she will let you know.

Veronaz, you are correct that you did not mention any legal advice.

To clear up what I was replying to (and I hope the bolding worked OK ... my mouse is playing up!!!)  I have quoted your post #201 and bolded where you mentioned that assuming served no purpose which is what I disagreed with and was replying to. (and then saying I had received outside legal advice)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 08:26:56 PM
Thanks for clarifying, Cuddlepie.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 13, 2013, 08:57:25 PM
OP here: 

Heck, after this strange interaction with Lodger I do not know what to think .... it's definitely a head scratching moment.

Received a notification from our Electricity Supplier advising that power will be out for 5 hours approx next Tuesday.  Left it on kitchen bench for son to read.  I am on computer (e-hell) when Lodger comes to my bedroom to thank me for letting her know about the power outage  ???  She walked away before I could get my wits back and ask her why she was thanking me .... she didn't come across as sarcastic or anything like that.

Maybe she has found another way to mess with my mind .... she has been moving food around on my shelves in the pantry.  And she is succeeding  ;D ;D
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: VorFemme on May 13, 2013, 09:10:08 PM
I've seen that game as "Telephone" or "Gossip" - depending on if the players were supposed to think about what happens when you pass along information that you don't completely understand and how distorted it can become (the Gossip version was in school or church).  The Telephone version was more for fun.....no lessons intended but you could take away whatever you wanted to after hearing the wild variations from beginning to end of the line.

Is Lodger thanking you for letting her know about an electrical outage AFTER she is supposed to have moved out?  Either she's trying to forget about being supposed to pack & move or she's not thinking "I move X and the power is out Y" because she just isn't putting two & two together and coming up with four.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: CakeEater on May 14, 2013, 02:18:33 AM
Quote
@Veronaz:  With me assuming the worst case scenario (ie: lodger refusing to vacate room), I can find legal advice and therefore be prepared to take whatever action is legal where I live.  The relevant govt agency is not available on a weekend which is when lodger should be moving out.

 ???

Cuddlepie, I didn't say anything about legal advice.

However, I did ask if you gave her written notice.

(btw, Chinese whispers is considered to be offensive.)

Complete threadjack, but in Australia, it's really not. I've never heard of anyone even suggesting that that term is offensive, and it's widely used here.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 14, 2013, 02:31:08 AM
Quote
@Veronaz:  With me assuming the worst case scenario (ie: lodger refusing to vacate room), I can find legal advice and therefore be prepared to take whatever action is legal where I live.  The relevant govt agency is not available on a weekend which is when lodger should be moving out.

 ???

Cuddlepie, I didn't say anything about legal advice.

However, I did ask if you gave her written notice.

(btw, Chinese whispers is considered to be offensive.)

Complete threadjack, but in Australia, it's really not. I've never heard of anyone even suggesting that that term is offensive, and it's widely used here.

OP  here - I have already edited that post and apologised.  Even though it is widely used in Australia, I can see that it is offensive. Maybe CakeEater and I can join forces and lead the rest of Australia in using the alternate name for that particular game.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: perpetua on May 14, 2013, 02:56:09 AM

@ a few posters:  I never asked Lodger were she was going to next, and I don't really care and to be honest I don't want to know.  Her mail can be re-directed by the post office, a service that you pay for.  And once again, I will presume here  ::), Lodger will not want to pay for that and will expect me to forward her mail onto her.  Yes, I will do it, BUT, I will not suggest or offer to forward mail, Lodger can remember to ask me, before she goes.

OP, even now she's moving out, you're still acting like this girl's mother.

Either forward her mail or don't. But don't play the 'ask nicely, now' game with someone you allegedly have a business relationship with. Even if it's only one you're playing in your own head.

I really think that you need to look at this dynamic before you take in another lodger because I think it's a big part of the problem you find yourself in with this one.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 14, 2013, 03:16:18 AM
I agree with Perpetua on that.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 14, 2013, 03:23:41 AM

@ a few posters:  I never asked Lodger were she was going to next, and I don't really care and to be honest I don't want to know.  Her mail can be re-directed by the post office, a service that you pay for.  And once again, I will presume here  ::), Lodger will not want to pay for that and will expect me to forward her mail onto her.  Yes, I will do it, BUT, I will not suggest or offer to forward mail, Lodger can remember to ask me, before she goes.



OP, even now she's moving out, you're still acting like this girl's mother.

Either forward her mail or don't. But don't play the 'ask nicely, now' game with someone you allegedly have a business relationship with. Even if it's only one you're playing in your own head.

I really think that you need to look at this dynamic before you take in another lodger because I think it's a big part of the problem you find yourself in with this one.

I find this reply quite hurtful.  Until a PP mentioned the mail I had not even considered it, not on my radar at all.  If I am acting like her mother, than I would consider myself a very poor one - I do not do anything for Lodger, I don't give my opinions or advice to her, I keep my mouth closed because she is NOT one of my children. Heck, there was no nagging about the dishes in the drainer, I asked her once to move them and that was it.   I care as much about her as I care about anyone I barely know, that is I don't want harm to come to them, I act respectfully and kindly and I will do the odd favour, if it suits me.

It is very hurtful and confusing as I truly know that  I am not treating her like a daughter, so I asking everyone to knock it off.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: perpetua on May 14, 2013, 04:35:11 AM
Cuddlepie, I'm sorry you found that hurtful, that was not my intention at all and if it came off that way I apologise. I'm just trying to offer another way of looking at not how you're actually treating her, but how you're *thinking* about your interactions with this lodger - at least how it's coming across here, because it may be helpful to you with the next one. Certainly may reduce your stress level about it.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: saki on May 14, 2013, 04:58:25 AM
Realise this is a tangent but, for what it's worth, "Chinese whispers" is commonly used in the UK as well.  I'm not sure I even understand what's meant to be offensive about it and I've certainly never ever heard anyone suggest that it was offensive.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Redsoil on May 14, 2013, 06:30:21 AM
Re. "Chinese Whispers" - I'd never even have thought of it as a slur!  Why on earth would it be considered offensive?  Is it now wrong to attribute the name of a race to anything?  http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/chinese-whispers.html

For what it's worth, I'm the PP who mentioned forwarding the lodger's mail as a kindness.  Hardly "mothering", simply a nice thing to do for someone, and commonly accepted as such in Australia.  I do think the OP is being unfairly treated in this instance. 

Cuddlepie - good luck with it all.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Yvaine on May 14, 2013, 09:40:15 AM
Re. "Chinese Whispers" - I'd never even have thought of it as a slur!  Why on earth would it be considered offensive?  Is it now wrong to attribute the name of a race to anything?  http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/chinese-whispers.html

It's considered offensive because it implies that Chinese is incomprehensible gibberish.

OP here: 

Heck, after this strange interaction with Lodger I do not know what to think .... it's definitely a head scratching moment.

Received a notification from our Electricity Supplier advising that power will be out for 5 hours approx next Tuesday.  Left it on kitchen bench for son to read.  I am on computer (e-hell) when Lodger comes to my bedroom to thank me for letting her know about the power outage  ???  She walked away before I could get my wits back and ask her why she was thanking me .... she didn't come across as sarcastic or anything like that.

Maybe she has found another way to mess with my mind .... she has been moving food around on my shelves in the pantry.  And she is succeeding  ;D ;D

She's not messing with your mind--she saw a notice you left out in the general area of the house and is genuinely glad she saw it. I know she's annoying you to the point that every random thing about her is bugging you, but I think she's being genuinely polite here and probably really thought you were leaving the notice out to be nice to her.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Queen of Clubs on May 14, 2013, 10:02:45 AM
She's not messing with your mind--she saw a notice you left out in the general area of the house and is genuinely glad she saw it. I know she's annoying you to the point that every random thing about her is bugging you, but I think she's being genuinely polite here and probably really thought you were leaving the notice out to be nice to her.

But Lodger won't even be there on Tuesday.  I suspect that's why Cuddlepie is confused.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Yvaine on May 14, 2013, 10:17:38 AM
She's not messing with your mind--she saw a notice you left out in the general area of the house and is genuinely glad she saw it. I know she's annoying you to the point that every random thing about her is bugging you, but I think she's being genuinely polite here and probably really thought you were leaving the notice out to be nice to her.

But Lodger won't even be there on Tuesday.  I suspect that's why Cuddlepie is confused.

Ah, gotcha. I've lost track of the timeline.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Visiting Crazy Town on May 14, 2013, 10:19:20 AM
She's not messing with your mind--she saw a notice you left out in the general area of the house and is genuinely glad she saw it. I know she's annoying you to the point that every random thing about her is bugging you, but I think she's being genuinely polite here and probably really thought you were leaving the notice out to be nice to her.

But Lodger won't even be there on Tuesday.  I suspect that's why Cuddlepie is confused.

 I Lodger may have not even noticeds that  it was for next tuesday , she just probably saw the date and thought that  it might have applied to her
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Queen of Clubs on May 14, 2013, 10:24:31 AM
She's not messing with your mind--she saw a notice you left out in the general area of the house and is genuinely glad she saw it. I know she's annoying you to the point that every random thing about her is bugging you, but I think she's being genuinely polite here and probably really thought you were leaving the notice out to be nice to her.

But Lodger won't even be there on Tuesday.  I suspect that's why Cuddlepie is confused.

 I Lodger may have not even noticeds that  it was for next tuesday , she just probably saw the date and thought that  it might have applied to her

That's entirely possible, but I can understand why Cuddlepie would be confused over Lodger's thanking her for the information.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: bopper on May 14, 2013, 10:25:41 AM
If you want the dishes put away right away, that's fine. But to me, a dish dryer is there to leave dishes to dry. And that's held true even after I lived in a house with 13 people (5 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1 kitchen, and 4 families). Even there, with 2-3 families making dinner we would leave dishes in the drainer.



But did you ever put the dishes away later or just leave them in the drainer?
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: rashea on May 14, 2013, 10:29:10 AM
If you want the dishes put away right away, that's fine. But to me, a dish dryer is there to leave dishes to dry. And that's held true even after I lived in a house with 13 people (5 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1 kitchen, and 4 families). Even there, with 2-3 families making dinner we would leave dishes in the drainer.



But did you ever put the dishes away later or just leave them in the drainer?

Generally, they would get put away once or twice a day. Someone would empty and load the dishwasher, someone would put away the dishes in the drainer. We all pitched in. if I was cooking, I tended to come back through that evening when I made tea and put things away then.

Maybe that's part of it. It seems a bit like the OP wants to have a lodger, but not a roommate. And that's fine, but then she needs to be careful about whether the lodger actually has use of common areas or just passing use. To me, if I had use of a kitchen, I would leave dishes in the drainer for at least a few hours (so I didn't have to dry).
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Yvaine on May 14, 2013, 10:30:20 AM
She's not messing with your mind--she saw a notice you left out in the general area of the house and is genuinely glad she saw it. I know she's annoying you to the point that every random thing about her is bugging you, but I think she's being genuinely polite here and probably really thought you were leaving the notice out to be nice to her.

But Lodger won't even be there on Tuesday.  I suspect that's why Cuddlepie is confused.

 I Lodger may have not even noticeds that  it was for next tuesday , she just probably saw the date and thought that  it might have applied to her

You're probably right. It's Tuesday right now, and she's probably confused now because the power is still on.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: saki on May 14, 2013, 10:45:07 AM

It's considered offensive because it implies that Chinese is incomprehensible gibberish.


So what about phrases like "it's all Greek to me"?

The 'racism' thing seems kind of tenuous to me - it feels like both phrases basically suggest "it's very different from my language and I don't understand it" not "that language is inherently inferior to mine."
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Yvaine on May 14, 2013, 10:49:17 AM

It's considered offensive because it implies that Chinese is incomprehensible gibberish.


So what about phrases like "it's all Greek to me"?

We had this debate on here a few years ago too. The two things I'll say are:

(a) I never said "it's Greek to me" is wonderful, or anything about it at all; maybe we shouldn't say that either.

(b) As a possible mitigating factor, though, "it's Greek to me" is usually used IME to mean that something is too smart for you to understand rather than that it's just gibberish; I've usually seen it used when people are intimidated by the level of discourse and so it's saying something rather different about Greek. It seems to be hearkening back to the idea Greek as a language only intellectuals spoke.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Hollanda on May 14, 2013, 11:22:01 AM
As a Uk ehellion,  I used the term Chinese Whispers on here. Nothing offensive meant, and I was surprised at the number of posters who leapt on the racist connotations.  I feel it's just a figure of speech,  nothing more and nothing less.

Cuddle,  you're doing great from where I'm standing! Xxx
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: lurkerwisp on May 14, 2013, 12:55:21 PM

It's considered offensive because it implies that Chinese is incomprehensible gibberish.


So what about phrases like "it's all Greek to me"?

We had this debate on here a few years ago too. The two things I'll say are:

(a) I never said "it's Greek to me" is wonderful, or anything about it at all; maybe we shouldn't say that either.

(b) As a possible mitigating factor, though, "it's Greek to me" is usually used IME to mean that something is too smart for you to understand rather than that it's just gibberish; I've usually seen it used when people are intimidated by the level of discourse and so it's saying something rather different about Greek. It seems to be hearkening back to the idea Greek as a language only intellectuals spoke.

Possible factor (c) in the US at least, would be the truly horrible racist cartoons and other media that used to claim Chinese people to be untrustworthy - which is kind of the point of the telephone game.  The "it's Greek to me" phrase doesn't connote deceit.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: RooRoo on May 14, 2013, 10:35:31 PM
Quote
(b) As a possible mitigating factor, though, "it's Greek to me" is usually used IME to mean that something is too smart for you to understand...

I have given this a modern slant. When I ask DH a simple, computer-related question, he sometimes goes into lecture mode, telling me stuff that I don't understand and don't want to learn.

Now I say, "It's all Geek to me!"  >:D
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: DottyG on May 15, 2013, 11:56:03 AM
I just created a spin off thread for a discussion about whether it's ok or not to use phrases like "Chinese Whispers."  Thought it might be easier to keep the 2 thread topics separate.

Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Seraphine1 on May 16, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
Hi Cuddlepie, I was wondering how things were going with your lodger? 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: caroled on May 21, 2013, 05:09:40 AM
Hope she moved out without incident. Waiting for updates.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 21, 2013, 06:28:56 PM
Lodger has left.  Quietly ... well sort of ... I had to give her a further nudge on Monday.

On Friday morning I told Lodger that someone (this is a fictional someone following advice I was given) was moving into the room on Monday night.  Lodger opened her mouth to say something, but didn't and went to her room, leaving the house about an hour later.  She did not return - not Friday, not Saturday nor Sunday.  As far she Lodger knew, the moving out deadline was Sunday night.  (Following advice, the deadline before I would physically stop her entering the house was 6pm on Monday but I did not advise Lodger of the leeway).  I waited at home each and every minute of the weekend, believe me it was a very   l o n g   weekend, even though I had friends over for support most of the time.

When she had not returned by Monday 10am I phoned her.  She did not answer and did not return my call, so at 2pm I sent her a text reiterating the message I left in the morning saying that all her belongings must be removed by 6pm or I would pack them up and deliver them to safe place XYZ for her to collect.  I also organised for the front door lock to be changed, since I had not heard a word from Lodger for over 3 days.

At 5.30pm Lodger with her uncle arrive.  While Lodger is literally throwing her stuff together, uncle and I chat.  Apparently I am a bad person for only giving Lodger a few days notice and how he had to drive her around Saturday and Sunday so she could look at rooms.  'The bad me' took delight in showing him the notice that Lodger had signed a little over 2 weeks ago and it was hard not to miss the look he threw Lodger's way.

So, a little after 6pm on Monday, when Lodger had gone, my handy and supportive friend and I changed the lock on front door.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 21, 2013, 06:32:28 PM
Lodger has left.  Quietly ... well sort of ... I had to give her a further nudge on Monday.

On Friday morning I told Lodger that someone (this is a fictional someone following advice I was given) was moving into the room on Monday night.  Lodger opened her mouth to say something, but didn't and went to her room, leaving the house about an hour later.  She did not return - not Friday, not Saturday nor Sunday.  As far she Lodger knew, the moving out deadline was Sunday night.  (Following advice, the deadline before I would physically stop her entering the house was 6pm on Monday but I did not advise Lodger of the leeway).  I waited at home each and every minute of the weekend, believe me it was a very   l o n g   weekend, even though I had friends over for support most of the time.

When she had not returned by Monday 10am I phoned her.  She did not answer and did not return my call, so at 2pm I sent her a text reiterating the message I left in the morning saying that all her belongings must be removed by 6pm or I would pack them up and deliver them to safe place XYZ for her to collect.  I also organised for the front door lock to be changed, since I had not heard a word from Lodger for over 3 days.

At 5.30pm Lodger with her uncle arrive.  While Lodger is literally throwing her stuff together, uncle and I chat.  Apparently I am a bad person for only giving Lodger a few days notice and how he had to drive her around Saturday and Sunday so she could look at rooms.  'The bad me' took delight in showing him the notice that Lodger had signed a little over 2 weeks ago and it was hard not to miss the look he threw Lodger's way.

So, a little after 6pm on Monday, when Lodger had gone, my handy and supportive friend and I changed the lock on front door.

BUSTED!

Good to hear she's gone, Cuddlepie.
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: NyaChan on May 21, 2013, 07:07:22 PM
Lodger has left.  Quietly ... well sort of ... I had to give her a further nudge on Monday.

On Friday morning I told Lodger that someone (this is a fictional someone following advice I was given) was moving into the room on Monday night.  Lodger opened her mouth to say something, but didn't and went to her room, leaving the house about an hour later.  She did not return - not Friday, not Saturday nor Sunday.  As far she Lodger knew, the moving out deadline was Sunday night.  (Following advice, the deadline before I would physically stop her entering the house was 6pm on Monday but I did not advise Lodger of the leeway).  I waited at home each and every minute of the weekend, believe me it was a very   l o n g   weekend, even though I had friends over for support most of the time.

When she had not returned by Monday 10am I phoned her.  She did not answer and did not return my call, so at 2pm I sent her a text reiterating the message I left in the morning saying that all her belongings must be removed by 6pm or I would pack them up and deliver them to safe place XYZ for her to collect.  I also organised for the front door lock to be changed, since I had not heard a word from Lodger for over 3 days.

At 5.30pm Lodger with her uncle arrive.  While Lodger is literally throwing her stuff together, uncle and I chat.  Apparently I am a bad person for only giving Lodger a few days notice and how he had to drive her around Saturday and Sunday so she could look at rooms.  'The bad me' took delight in showing him the notice that Lodger had signed a little over 2 weeks ago and it was hard not to miss the look he threw Lodger's way.

So, a little after 6pm on Monday, when Lodger had gone, my handy and supportive friend and I changed the lock on front door.

BUSTED!

Good to hear she's gone, Cuddlepie.

Haha busted is right!  I really marvel at people who tell lies that are so easily shown up. 
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: something.new.every.day on May 21, 2013, 09:03:03 PM
Great update!  ;)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: MariaE on May 21, 2013, 11:43:13 PM
Wow, she obviously wasn't expecting you to go through with it and was trying to call your bluff. The nerves of her...

And perfect proof why you should always get stuff in writing :)
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: Cuddlepie on May 22, 2013, 02:02:30 AM
OP here:  It was by chance that I spoke with the uncle.  He blocked the driveway when he parked and as my neighbour behind always goes out between 5.30 and 6.30 to buy his tea, I popped out to ask uncle who was waiting in the car to move to another spot.  We started chatting which led to me getting a lecture about how badly I treated Lodger.   I don't think Lodger meant to get me (or herself) into trouble ... I suspect she told uncle the *furphy so he would feel sorry for her, drive her about to look at accommodation, rather than being told that she brought her predicament upon herself.  My thoughts on the situation.  ::)

*Edited to include a link to explain the meaning of the Aussie word furphy (a lie that embellishes on the truth)  http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/melbourne_details.php?id=10424
Title: Re: To share or not ... that is the question
Post by: FauxFoodist on May 22, 2013, 01:43:46 PM
Excellent update.  I'm sorry you had to wait around all weekend.  Sometimes, even when you know YOU are in the right (legally or otherwise), the other party just doesn't care (as evidenced by the many MANY tales on this site).  Good for you having her acknowledgment in writing as, because of her own sorry lie, this will likely bite her in the behind where her family is concerned and, best of all, she's no longer YOUR problem.