Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: julianna on April 23, 2013, 09:15:06 AM

Title: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: julianna on April 23, 2013, 09:15:06 AM
My four-year-old son was talking on the phone to his grandmother.  Grandma told him something she wanted him to do (not something to be done immediately, just something she thought he should do in the future).  He said okay.  She spent another five minutes or so expounding on the many reasons why he should do it.  He waited till she stopped talking, then said, "I said okay."

He was rude, and that is not a response I would encourage him to use.  I would like some objective opinions on exactly how rude he was, and how you would respond if your four-year-old grandchild said that to you.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Mannerless on April 23, 2013, 09:20:54 AM
Huh?  I don't think your son was rude at all.  He agreed to do what she wanted...then he waited patiently while she expounded, did not interrupt, and repeated "I said okay."  Maybe I am missing something, like his tone of voice?  But for a 4 year old I think he was fine.

Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Mal on April 23, 2013, 09:22:44 AM
Huh?  I don't think your son was rude at all.  He agreed to do what she wanted...then he waited patiently while she expounded, did not interrupt, and repeated "I said okay."  Maybe I am missing something, like his tone of voice?  But for a 4 year old I think he was fine.

Placing my POD here. If his tone of voice irked you, that's what should be addressed, not the words he used, which were alright in my opinion.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: julianna on April 23, 2013, 09:29:38 AM
Well, his tone of voice was visibly annoyed.  As an adult, I would have made an effort to keep my tone light and pleasant, and said, "Grandma, I've already agreed to do it.  You don't need to keep convincing me."  (Probably some people would consider that rude as well.)  I don't really expect a four-year-old to show that kind of restraint, so I personally don't consider his response totally egregious.  But it was ruder than I would have preferred, and I would like to know if I am just making allowances because he's my child.  (Grandma had what I consider an overreaction, and I'm trying to get objective input.)
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Redsoil on April 23, 2013, 09:39:22 AM
Your four-year-old sounds just fine!  He obviously was very patient before being pushed to his limit.  Maybe Grandma will get a clue.  ;)
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: TurtleDove on April 23, 2013, 09:40:07 AM
I think you are being far too hard on your son.  Phone conversations can be difficult even for adults, and I think it is great that he did not interrupt her.  I am not saying grandma was "wrong" but there is really no reason to keep talking without taking a break to let a child speak, especially when there are no visual cues and when your son already said he would do it.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: sparksals on April 23, 2013, 09:44:31 AM
Grandma is the rude one here.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: GratefulMaria on April 23, 2013, 09:45:48 AM
I kind of think Grandma was rude.  Five minutes is a long time to lecture someone on what you think they should be doing.

Teaching your son a more polite response to this sort of behavior is a really positive outcome of the situation.  I'm inclined to think more along the lines of "That kind of voice can hurt people's feelings; let's talk about other ways to say what you needed to tell Grandma" rather than "That was really out of line."

I guess what I'm saying is I think your son was learning as opposed to rude.

Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Jones on April 23, 2013, 09:47:15 AM
Your son sounds absolutely fine. A four year old who waited for preaching Grandma to finish speaking? Good for him. Maybe Grandma needs a lesson on being succinct from him.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: NyaChan on April 23, 2013, 09:50:40 AM
I think you are being far too hard on your son.  Phone conversations can be difficult even for adults, and I think it is great that he did not interrupt her.  I am not saying grandma was "wrong" but there is really no reason to keep talking without taking a break to let a child speak, especially when there are no visual cues and when your son already said he would do it.

I agree with TurtleDove and the others.  Your son is only 4 - my grandma still does this to me at 24 and I have trouble not reacting the way he did, in fact sometimes I can't even wait until she's done lecturing me on something I've already happily agreed to.  While a short reminder that Grandma might repeat things or talk a lot, but we should still be patient with her because we love her wouldn't be out of order, I don't think I would hold this against your son in any significant way.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: JenJay on April 23, 2013, 10:11:57 AM
I agree that your son was fine.

A couple of years ago my DD told me that it's annoying when I lecture her. I didn't know what she was talking about because I don't nag or lecture. She explained that whenever she asks for something and I say no I then go on to "lecture" her, and I sometimes do this when I'm asking her to do something, too. Turns out what I thought of as "Let me explain this in depth so you understand where I'm coming from." she found patronizing. It was a good chat and now I try not to over-explain and she tries to give me the benefit of doubt that a point is coming when I do.

It sounds like Gran assumed, probably because he's 4, that your DS wouldn't fully understand what she was asking or why. He was letting her know that he did. Maybe it wasn't the most tactful way to express it but hey, he's 4. You could encourage him to say "I understand" next time.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: FlyingBaconMouse on April 23, 2013, 10:19:51 AM
I agree that your son was fine.

A couple of years ago my DD told me that it's annoying when I lecture her. I didn't know what she was talking about because I don't nag or lecture. She explained that whenever she asks for something and I say no I then go on to "lecture" her, and I sometimes do this when I'm asking her to do something, too. Turns out what I thought of as "Let me explain this in depth so you understand where I'm coming from." she found patronizing. It was a good chat and now I try not to over-explain and she tries to give me the benefit of doubt that a point is coming when I do.

It sounds like Gran assumed, probably because he's 4, that your DS wouldn't fully understand what she was asking or why. He was letting her know that he did. Maybe it wasn't the most tactful way to express it but hey, he's 4. You could encourage him to say "I understand" next time.

This reminds me of when I was little. My mom's not long-winded, but she'd end every admonition with "Do you understand me?," to the point that it became in my mind the official phrase of getting into trouble.
When I was about 8, she did this and I replied (not intending to be snotty, just frustrated), "Of course I understand! I know all those words!" She never said it again.  :)
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 23, 2013, 10:23:27 AM
I don't think there is enough information.  If Grandma said "Oh, I think you should start playing t-ball." and son replied OK and then GM went on to tell a story about her son playing and how much fun it was and how she hopes he has as much fun and then your son replied impatiently "I said OK" with tone in this voice, then you should just correct that he not only has to listen patiently but also respond in a polite manner.

But if GM said "You need to start playing t ball" and then goes into a long lecture about why t-ball is important and all the benefits he'll get and blablahblah, then I have no problem with your 4 yr old responding that way. I hate being lectured about something I've already agreed to.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: learningtofly on April 23, 2013, 10:29:13 AM
I feel like decisions to four year olds are simple.  If they say they'll do it, they'll do it.  The last time my four year old got in trouble at school, we talked at school and she got the point.  We had a good discussion.  However, bringing it up again two minutes later in the car got me a "Mom I know!"  We had already discussed it and to her there was no point in discussing it further.  Overkill annoys little kids.  They assume promises are never broken and so they don't need to be convinced once they've said they'll do something.  Grandma needs to learn how to talk to a kid.  My four year old would have put down the phone two minutes into the lecture.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on April 23, 2013, 10:30:06 AM
I can understand where your son's coming from as I've been on the receiving end of that kind of thing.  "You ought to do this thing and now that you've agreed, I'm going to go on and on and on to tell you why."  ::) 

I agree with Jenjay, perhaps an "I understand" would be better.  And perhaps make it clear to grandma that she ought to stop at the first "I understand." I've known people who will keep going on.

 
. I hate being lectured about something I've already agreed to.

You and me both.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Ms_Cellany on April 23, 2013, 10:32:23 AM
I hate being lectured about something I've already agreed to.

You and me both.

The Sweetie, who is a sales manager, states it as "Stop selling!" 

Another time, she told me, "I said yes, and that's my final answer!"
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: TootsNYC on April 23, 2013, 10:38:59 AM
I kind of think Grandma was rude.  Five minutes is a long time to lecture someone on what you think they should be doing.

Especially when they've already agreed to what you've asked.

Quote

Teaching your son a more polite response to this sort of behavior is a really positive outcome of the situation.  I'm inclined to think more along the lines of "That kind of voice can hurt people's feelings; let's talk about other ways to say what you needed to tell Grandma" rather than "That was really out of line."

I guess what I'm saying is I think your son was learning as opposed to rude.

I agree. Great learning opportunity here. And a great time to teach him about tone of voice. And about patience. And to empathize with him, so he doesn't feel all alone in being annoying about being LECTURED when you've already agreed.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: BeagleMommy on April 23, 2013, 10:57:50 AM
DH does this all the time.  He'll suggest something, I'll agree to it and then he'll launch into a litany of reason why we should do what I've already agreed to do.  I've started saying "I've agreed with you, you don't need to justify it.".

OP, 4-year-olds don't have the greatest attention spans.  I'm sure he felt like "I'm bored with this subject and I already said yes."  His response would not be unusual for a child that age.  Teaching him to respond with a more polite tone of voice is a good idea.  Although I know a lot of adults who can't do this yet.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Zilla on April 23, 2013, 11:26:11 AM
I think it's great that your son was smart enough to wonder why his grandma was going on and on when he already said yes.  I would coach your son to maybe say, "But Grandma, I already said I would do it." and in a polite tone.  And you mentioned that Grandma overreacted.  I would tell her myself, "You asked, he said yes, you went on and on about it which puzzled him as he already said yes.  I would have left it alone."
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: GSNW on April 23, 2013, 01:07:16 PM
Sweet baby kitties, he's FOUR.  I think he did just fine.  I'm imagining the conversation like this:

Grandma:  I think you should join karate.  Would you be interested?
Kid:  I will do that!
Grandma:  Karate is great for... bla bla (five minutes).  Now, do you want to do it or not?
Kid:  I said I would!

Kids that age are not necessarily going to read into the subtle nuances of conversation.  The issue is very black and white.  She asked, I said yes.  She asked again, I told her I said yes!  This makes sense in the kiddo's mind and Grandma needs to calm down.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: *inviteseller on April 23, 2013, 01:15:36 PM
He said ok, and she kept it up for 5 minutes?  His 4 yr old attention span had it and he responded the best way he could.  I think, actually your mom was rude because she got the right answer when she asked the first time, but them had to keep hammering at him about doing it.  That is pushing boundaries to me.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: cicero on April 23, 2013, 02:44:29 PM
Well, his tone of voice was visibly annoyed.  As an adult, I would have made an effort to keep my tone light and pleasant, and said, "Grandma, I've already agreed to do it.  You don't need to keep convincing me."  (Probably some people would consider that rude as well.)  I don't really expect a four-year-old to show that kind of restraint, so I personally don't consider his response totally egregious.  But it was ruder than I would have preferred, and I would like to know if I am just making allowances because he's my child.  (Grandma had what I consider an overreaction, and I'm trying to get objective input.)
trust your inner voice you consider her reaction to be AN overreaction because it is

Your son sounds like one normal, polite and smart cookie.he waited politely thru a five minutes lecture designed to convince him to do something he already agreed to do.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: MrTango on April 23, 2013, 03:30:24 PM
Sweet baby kitties, he's FOUR.  I think he did just fine.  I'm imagining the conversation like this:

Grandma:  I think you should join karate.  Would you be interested?
Kid:  I will do that!
Grandma:  Karate is great for... bla bla (five minutes).  Now, do you want to do it or not?
Kid:  I said I would!

Kids that age are not necessarily going to read into the subtle nuances of conversation.  The issue is very black and white.  She asked, I said yes.  She asked again, I told her I said yes!  This makes sense in the kiddo's mind and Grandma needs to calm down.

Even as an adult, I'd have a hard time keeping annoyance out of my voice if I were in the kid's position.  If I've already told you I'll do something and you start explaining why I should be doing it, you're just wasting my time.

(Except, if the reason you give for doing the activity could possibly affect how/when I do it).

For example:

Mom: "Could you please mow the lawn tomorrow?"
Me: "Sure"
Mom: "Thanks.  I need you to do it because it's supposed to start raining by the time I get home from work."
Me: "Ahh.  In that case, I'll do it first thing in the morning."
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: artk2002 on April 23, 2013, 03:33:53 PM
If grandma's response was anything other than regret for haranguing a child who'd already agreed, then she overreacted. I think the young boy did very well given his age. An older child might have been able to cover and deliver the message more gently, but he did better than most 4yos could. Other than telling him "Next time grandma does that, just say 'thanks grandma, I will!' and let it go", there's nothing you should say to him. Grandma, on the other hand, needs a lesson in listening to the people she's talking to. Odds are pretty good that she had a script in her head, where he would say 'no' and she would exercise her grandmotherly powers to convince him. He didn't follow the script, but she didn't notice, until he called her at it at the end. This was all about her and her wonderful idea, not really about him.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: CrochetFanatic on April 23, 2013, 03:43:19 PM
Well...I think it would have been okay if he'd just said "Okay" again and left off the "I said" part, but then again, he's only four.  I wouldn't have been offended if a four-year-old had responded to me in that way.  An eight-year-old on the other hand, yeah, I'd probably be a little annoyed.  I remember when I was three or four and talking to my grandfather on the phone, and responding to a repeated question with an annoyed, "Yeah, I already TOLD you!"  My mother apologized to him, gently explained my mistake, and I apologized on my own.  Mostly because I thought I would be punished, but I had meant no offense. 

Maybe she overreacted, but sometimes adults seem to forget that kids don't think the same way, and certain things just don't occur to little minds.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: julianna on April 23, 2013, 04:53:18 PM
Thanks for the input, everyone.  My feeling was that it wouldn't really bother me to have a four-year-old say that to me, but it would bother me in an older child, which is why I'm trying to teach him good habits now.  However, I know that not everyone is used to dealing with four-year-olds on a daily basis, so I wondered if I was being a little too lenient. 

The other factor is, MIL had a huge overreaction at the time, which frankly made me pretty angry.  (I would have been fine with her saying something mild, like telling him his tone of voice hurt her feelings.  But she was over-the-top.)  And I just found out that, almost a week later, she is still quite angry.  Which is just bizarre to me -- who holds a grudge over something a four-year-old said?  So I am angry at MIL, and wanted to be sure that I wasn't letting my anger blind me to whether she had a point.

Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: artk2002 on April 23, 2013, 05:02:19 PM
Nope. You are right, your MIL is flat-out wrong. Your son was respectful of her beyond his years and she disrespected him. The fact that he gently pointed out her disrespect is hers to deal with.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Sharnita on April 23, 2013, 05:07:27 PM
Honestly, keeping him on the line listening to a one way monolouge is too much to ask of a 4 yo no matter what she is talking about. Even if it is candy,.yrains and puppies,5 minutes of listening to her ramble would be too much. The fact that she was lecturing makes it even worse.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Bluenomi on April 23, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
If MIL acts like that every time she talks to him, she's going to find he's not going to want to talk to her. He's 4, a solid 5 minute lecture about something he's already agreed to is a bit over the top. It would annoy most adults, let alone a 4 year old
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Tia on April 24, 2013, 07:14:20 PM
Ooooooh what a little trooper! The real question then is how to handle the mil, I'm sure her over the top reaction isn't limited to just this event, though I hope it is.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: m2kbug on April 24, 2013, 08:31:44 PM
I think a better choice of words is in order here and a different tone.  "Sounds like fun!"  "Can't wait!"  It sounds like gramma was super excited about her plans and just went into a huge, long description where the child lost interest about 20 minutes ago.  I'm not jumping on the rude, but I do think a different choice of words and paying attention and acknowledging gramma and her plans and interests are in order.  And he's 4.  There are some restrictions here.  I think you're doing just fine in guidance and direction, and I hope gramma understands a 4 year old is working on a completely different plane as us grownups.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: JenJay on April 24, 2013, 08:46:47 PM
She ranted at him and then held a grudge for going-on a week? Good grief! His display of annoyance was FAR less rude than hers.  ::)
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: sparksals on April 24, 2013, 09:28:31 PM
I hope Granny's unreasonable behaviour does not turn into a pattern.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Eeep! on May 03, 2013, 05:04:55 PM
I really can't imagine holding a grudge against a 4 year old for one thing he said. That is even more ridiculous than the original situation. Ugh.  My 3 1/2 year old (excuse me - 3 3/4 year old ;)) routinely notifies me when I am telling him something I already have. He doesn't do it rudely but he does let me know. :)  So I can totally imagine him saying something similar if someone went on and on about something to which he already agreed.  I would do the same thing the OP did and tell him a nicer way to say it in the future, But if someone decided to hold that against him for a week? Not sure how I would deal with that...
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Yvaine on May 03, 2013, 05:23:58 PM
I think a better choice of words is in order here and a different tone.  "Sounds like fun!"  "Can't wait!"  It sounds like gramma was super excited about her plans and just went into a huge, long description where the child lost interest about 20 minutes ago.  I'm not jumping on the rude, but I do think a different choice of words and paying attention and acknowledging gramma and her plans and interests are in order.  And he's 4.  There are some restrictions here.  I think you're doing just fine in guidance and direction, and I hope gramma understands a 4 year old is working on a completely different plane as us grownups.

I may have missed a post, but it doesn't sound like she was trying to drum up enthusiasm for a fun activity--it sounded to me more like she was lecturing that he should do some chore or "good-for-you" thing, like clean his room or floss his teeth or something.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: julianna on May 04, 2013, 09:17:17 AM
She was telling him to do a one-time chore.  The lecture was listing all the bad things that would happen if he didn't do the chore (that he had already agreed to do). 

MIL is apparently speaking to us again.  She yelled at DS on the phone at the time, then the next time DH spoke to her nearly a week later she yelled at DH about DS's behavior, then she did her standard 'almost-silent-treatment-until-they-figure-out-I'm-upset-and-grovel.'  Needless to say, we did not grovel. So I don't know if she let it go, or if she's clinging to a vague memory of DS being horribly rude and disrespectful.  Either way, it will be a long time before he talks on the phone to her again. 
 
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 04, 2013, 09:23:27 AM
She was telling him to do a one-time chore.  The lecture was listing all the bad things that would happen if he didn't do the chore (that he had already agreed to do). 

MIL is apparently speaking to us again.  She yelled at DS on the phone at the time, then the next time DH spoke to her nearly a week later she yelled at DH about DS's behavior, then she did her standard 'almost-silent-treatment-until-they-figure-out-I'm-upset-and-grovel.'  Needless to say, we did not grovel. So I don't know if she let it go, or if she's clinging to a vague memory of DS being horribly rude and disrespectful. Either way, it will be a long time before he talks on the phone to her again.

I'm with you, Julianna. She sounds like a nasty bit of work.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: sparksals on May 04, 2013, 10:47:03 PM
She was telling him to do a one-time chore.  The lecture was listing all the bad things that would happen if he didn't do the chore (that he had already agreed to do). 

MIL is apparently speaking to us again.  She yelled at DS on the phone at the time, then the next time DH spoke to her nearly a week later she yelled at DH about DS's behavior, then she did her standard 'almost-silent-treatment-until-they-figure-out-I'm-upset-and-grovel.'  Needless to say, we did not grovel. So I don't know if she let it go, or if she's clinging to a vague memory of DS being horribly rude and disrespectful.  Either way, it will be a long time before he talks on the phone to her again.


I think it is a very good idea to keep him off the phone with her.  I also suggest he not be left alone with her as she may berate him when you are not around.  She sounds very toxic.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: JoyinVirginia on May 04, 2013, 11:06:57 PM
If MIL acts like that every time she talks to him, she's going to find he's not going to want to talk to her. He's 4, a solid 5 minute lecture about something he's already agreed to is a bit over the top. It would annoy most adults, let alone a 4 year old
I agree. I suggest decrease frequency of calls to grandma if your son upsets her so.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: LeveeWoman on May 05, 2013, 09:54:59 AM
She was telling him to do a one-time chore.  The lecture was listing all the bad things that would happen if he didn't do the chore (that he had already agreed to do). 

MIL is apparently speaking to us again.  She yelled at DS on the phone at the time, then the next time DH spoke to her nearly a week later she yelled at DH about DS's behavior, then she did her standard 'almost-silent-treatment-until-they-figure-out-I'm-upset-and-grovel.'  Needless to say, we did not grovel. So I don't know if she let it go, or if she's clinging to a vague memory of DS being horribly rude and disrespectful.  Either way, it will be a long time before he talks on the phone to her again.


I think it is a very good idea to keep him off the phone with her.  I also suggest he not be left alone with her as she may berate him when you are not around.  She sounds very toxic.

Oh, yeah.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: oogyda on May 09, 2013, 01:42:48 PM
I admit I started reading this thread with one thing in mind and have had to revise my thinking along the way.  I'll start with my original thoughts:

I'd be willing to cut grandma some slack.  4 year olds can sometimes be hard to engage over the phone.  While I tend to ask them questions, I could see that a 5-minute diatribe might be someone else's way.

I still hold that opinion.  In general.  This grandma lost any "benefit of the doubt" with her subsequent nastiness. 
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: artk2002 on May 09, 2013, 02:53:57 PM
I admit I started reading this thread with one thing in mind and have had to revise my thinking along the way.  I'll start with my original thoughts:

I'd be willing to cut grandma some slack.  4 year olds can sometimes be hard to engage over the phone.  While I tend to ask them questions, I could see that a 5-minute diatribe might be someone else's way.

I still hold that opinion.  In general.  This grandma lost any "benefit of the doubt" with her subsequent nastiness.

Except that the child told her, up front, that he was going to do what she wanted him to do. It doesn't sound like there's an issue engaging this child on this topic.

While you may be right about it being a challenge to engage a 4yo, one of the first things to do is actually listen to the other person. Grandma probably expected resistance so she didn't hear the boy say "yes, I will" the first time and just ran with the script she wrote in her head expecting him to say "no." So for me, no slack for Grandma. It's not that hard to pay attention to the other person.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Calistoga on May 09, 2013, 04:44:06 PM
For a 4 year old that's a lot of restraint honestly. The BEST thing to do would be to say "Ok Grandma, I'll do X", but I think 4 years old is a little too young to expect perfect etiquette. If you can get Please and Thank You you're doing well.

If anything, compliment his patience. Remind him to use his nicest tone- there wouldn't have been any rudeness at all if he hadn't made his annoyance visible.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Amava on May 12, 2013, 10:35:03 AM
Well, his tone of voice was visibly annoyed.  As an adult, I would have made an effort to keep my tone light and pleasant, and said, "Grandma, I've already agreed to do it.  You don't need to keep convincing me."  (Probably some people would consider that rude as well.)  I don't really expect a four-year-old to show that kind of restraint, so I personally don't consider his response totally egregious.  But it was ruder than I would have preferred, and I would like to know if I am just making allowances because he's my child.  (Grandma had what I consider an overreaction, and I'm trying to get objective input.)

Grandma is the oldest, she should be the wisest.
And sometimes being wise means: talk less, listen more.
Sometimes being wise also means: take less offense to what someone (especially a four year old!) says and how they say it, and instead try to understand what they are actually /trying/ to tell you.
Title: Re: Rate the Rudeness
Post by: Reika on May 12, 2013, 10:45:51 AM
Honestly, at 36 if someone was giving me a diatribe for 5 minutes over something I agreed to...I'd probably change my mind by the time they were done. Or I'd find some way of cutting them off in mid-rant. That a 4 year old had the patience to put up with it amazes me.