Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => All In A Day's Work => Topic started by: Saturnine Rodent on April 26, 2013, 10:29:21 AM

Title: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Saturnine Rodent on April 26, 2013, 10:29:21 AM
well, i live in the UK so tipping isn't something you do unless you received phenomenal service, over here it's become a running joke that if you don't tip waiters in america they will do anything short of kidnapping you to get you to pay extra.  ;D what is with the obsession with tipping? surely you just pay the price of the food on the menu, i mean, i know waiters are paid badly but don't they receive minimum wage?  :o and do waiters really hunt you down if you don't pay up? i'm really curious if it's true as it's not something we do here  :)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MrTango on April 26, 2013, 10:36:22 AM
I've never had it happen to me, nor have I ever actually seen it happen.  I have seen wait staff chase after a customer who has left no money or insufficient money to cover the bill itself.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: ti_ax on April 26, 2013, 10:37:00 AM
I've never had a waiter in the USA chase me.

I was once chased down by a waiter in the UK to return a tip.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Wulfie on April 26, 2013, 10:38:56 AM
Sometimes, yes, they do hunt you down in the parking lot/way out of the resturant but it is pretty rare.   

No, they do not really get a minumum wage. Some jobs flat out tell you, you are working for tips. They do have to make up your pay rate if you make less than minumum wage but in reality that rarely happens.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: RebeccainGA on April 26, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
No, they don't get minimum wage. They get somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 an hour if they are tipped. That's why the obsession - it's more like commission sales than cashier, really.

Most won't chase you, but I have had one scream across the room at me - he hadn't known that I had put a cash tip on the table, and just saw the 0.00 tip on the credit card slip, and got angry.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 26, 2013, 10:44:55 AM
No, they don't get minimum wage. They get somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 an hour if they are tipped. That's why the obsession - it's more like commission sales than cashier, really.

Most won't chase you, but I have had one scream across the room at me - he hadn't known that I had put a cash tip on the table, and just saw the 0.00 tip on the credit card slip, and got angry.

I would have been sorely tempted to take back the cash!
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 26, 2013, 10:51:14 AM
I've never seen anyone chased down about a tip.

We did have one instance at a high end restaurant. My boss was in from The Netherlands and he left a 10% tip on the check after a really great dinner. The manager came by to politely ask if there had been a problem with service. We said "No, everything was great. Why?" and he mentioned the tip which is considered low and a method of indicating your displeasure. We explained US tipping rules to my boss  and we all got a good laugh. Of course, then he realized how many other waiters he'd been short changing in his 3 yrs of traveling back and forth. But after 10 visits and countless dinners out, this was the first time any waiter or management had commented to him about the low tip.

Our menu prices are usually lower in price than you'd find in other countries but you just know that you'll be adding about 20% of the food cost to the tab.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 26, 2013, 10:52:11 AM
I’ve never known of a waiter/server chasing anyone down.

You’re right – there does seem to be somewhat of an obsession here in the US with regard to tipping. (There are lots of threads about it here on the forum.)

Seems that a lot of people feel since the waiter/server is paid low wages the customer should make up the difference.  I don’t agree with that, but I usually tip if I get good service.  It’s the custom.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 26, 2013, 10:53:31 AM
I have ever seen a waiter chase anyone else. But once, a bit drunk and splitting a check with a friend (but me doing all the math), we shorted the waiter and only have a 10% tip. He very politely approached before we left and asked if he'd done something wrong. I said no and asked why he asked. He said "well usually people tip at least 18%..." and I was mortified of my own error, I assured him all was good and we each doubled our tip to leave him 20% - which is what we'd intended on giving him!

In some states waitstaff are paid minimum wage but not in most. And honestly... its extraordinarily difficult to live on minimum wage even if is what someone is paid. Usually a standard 40 hour week is not going to cut it, and people on minimum wage almost never have things like paid sick days or paid vacation time, or particularly good health insurance, etc, so not only are they making very little they are in more need of savings as a safety cushion.

The way I look at it is - no one needs the luxury of being waited on. One can go to a grocery store, or even a self-service eatery, to get the food necessary for life. Going to a restaurant with table service is a luxury, a small one but a luxury none the less, and its awfully stingy to be cheap about tipping when you are already engaging in luxury behavior.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: RebeccainGA on April 26, 2013, 10:56:55 AM
No, they don't get minimum wage. They get somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 an hour if they are tipped. That's why the obsession - it's more like commission sales than cashier, really.

Most won't chase you, but I have had one scream across the room at me - he hadn't known that I had put a cash tip on the table, and just saw the 0.00 tip on the credit card slip, and got angry.

I would have been sorely tempted to take back the cash!
I was. What's worse, I was dining alone, and there is some assumption that single diners are horrible tippers. I'm actually the opposite - I overtip, sometimes in the 30% range, depending on the service and the total of the check (I won't leave less than $2, ever, unless the service is just awful).
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 26, 2013, 11:01:49 AM
I always tip, so the need for this typically isn't there.

However, yes.  They can chase you into the parking lot.  Had it happen to me and a group of people I was with.  I don't know what happened - whether part of the tip wasn't visible to him on the table or if he truly felt that it wasn't enough, but we had a waiter chase us.  It was incredibly embarrassing.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: nuit93 on April 26, 2013, 11:08:33 AM
I've never seen anyone being chased, but they WILL remember you.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Redneck Gravy on April 26, 2013, 11:12:22 AM
I was a cocktail waitress during college and I chased a patron down to give him his money back...

I had waited on him, wife and another couple all evening and it was fetch me this and bring me that - very demanding.  I was expecting a large tip and he left a DIME on the table, I chased him down and told him he must need it more than I did.  My boss was not only okay with this but encouraged it.  I don't believe that group ever graced us with their presence again. 

My understanding has always been that leaving two pennies indicates poor service. 

I tip 15-25% and if service is bad I let the waitperson know it.  Sometimes it is not their fault (kitchen lost the order, ran out of lobster, etc), I know they rely on their tips for wages and I almost always go ABOVE and BEYOND the norm.   If I am entertaining a large group and the restaurant adds 18% I will almost always add another 7% I think large groups are just naturally demanding. 
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: baritone108 on April 26, 2013, 11:21:18 AM
A waiter/waitress can get into trouble for chasing you down for a tip if you complain to the restaurant management.

Many years ago DH and I went out for an anniversary dinner.  We had a very expensive dinner and DH left a VERY high tip (in the neighborhood of 25%).  Apparently someone stole the tip off the table before the waiter got there.  As we were leaving the restaurant a waiter (not the one who served us) chased us to the door and angrily and insultingly chastised us for not tipping.  DH said, "If $___ isn't good enough for you I'm sorry."

Since I frequented that restaurant often I later spoke to the manager.  The waiter who chased us was fired.  I believe the restaurant did investigate the missing tip and it turned out a bus boy was occasionally taking the higher tips off the table.  He was fired but still lucky he wasn't turned in to the police.  Stealing tips was a federal offense (I don't know if it still is) since it is considered stealing wages.

There is a separate minimum wage for people who receive tips.  As someone said earlier, it is about $2/hr.  The tips are supposed to make up the rest of the wage and you are supposed to declare them when you file your income taxes.

I used to be a waitress and I had to chase down someone who skipped out on a check more than once.  Many people don't realize that if they skip out on the check the restaurant can (and often does) deduct the amount from the paycheck of the waiter/waitress.  I once had two women come in with their children for a birthday celebration, cake and all.  They skipped out on the check and the amount was so large that the restaurant manager split it into five parts so I wouldn't have to go without a complete paycheck.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Twik on April 26, 2013, 11:30:33 AM
Ah. A good idea to always put the tip on the credit card (if used), to avoid theft, then.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: stargazer on April 26, 2013, 11:37:24 AM
Some waiters DO get minimum wage - it totally depends on the state you are in - but since no one is going to look up the minimum law wage requirements for each state we kind of just assume all waiters get less than minimum wage (it drives me a bit batty but there you go).  I have never personally heard of a waiter running after someone for tips, although occasionally you do read the story about it on the internet.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 26, 2013, 11:44:15 AM
Actually, the idea of a waiter chasing someone for a better tip is rather absurd.  "Oh.  So you think chasing me and telling and demanding more money is going to result in me giving you more money?"  Umm, no.  I can't imagine giving in to any service provider (hair stylist, waiter, etc.) who does that.  It's kind of.........crazy.   :o

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: ncgal on April 26, 2013, 11:45:14 AM
I have not had anyone chase me down for a tip, but I did return to the restaurant once because of a tip mishap.  I was paying in cash, and somehow my mind counted a five as a ten.  It hit me a day or two later was I was driving to work.  It was enough to pay the bill, but not enough to include a tip.

I went back to the restaurant and left the money for a tip, plus a little extra.  The restaurant says it happens a lot (no tip or just not enough to cover the tab), but people very very rarely come back in to cover the cost.  I was an oddity and got thanked a lot that afternoon.  The waiter was not there, but I was able to identify him for management. 
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: GSNW on April 26, 2013, 11:45:48 AM
I've never had a waiter chase me down for a tip, but that's because DH and I are good tippers.  I've never heard of this happening or seen it happen, either.  I did have a bartender in the UK refuse to let us tip him after ordering a second round of drinks at the bar (we tipped him after the first round).  Another diner in Italy laughed at us when we leaned over to ask if tipping was appropriate ("no no no, keep your money").  A tip was graciously received in the Czech Republic, but we were at a fancier place - I got the feeling that it was the norm there.  Or maybe our waiter just didn't want to embarrass us by giving our money back.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: jaxsue on April 26, 2013, 12:03:05 PM
Ah. A good idea to always put the tip on the credit card (if used), to avoid theft, then.

I used to wait tables. We actually preferred cash. For one thing, having the tip on the card means you wait to get your tip. Some places are faster than others. Most people who wait tables could their money *right now.* But, a tip on a card is better than no tip at all if that's the only option.

If I don't trust that a tip goes to the person who waited on me, I will give it to them directly. And if I found out that another patron/employee was stealing the tips, I'd be livid!
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Shoo on April 26, 2013, 12:04:32 PM
No, they don't get minimum wage. They get somewhere in the neighborhood of $2 an hour if they are tipped. That's why the obsession - it's more like commission sales than cashier, really.

Most won't chase you, but I have had one scream across the room at me - he hadn't known that I had put a cash tip on the table, and just saw the 0.00 tip on the credit card slip, and got angry.

In many states they DO get at least minimum wage plus tips.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 26, 2013, 12:08:55 PM
If the waiters want more money maybe they should chase the owner of the restaurant.  Customers don't establish wages.

Also, I'd think chasing a customer might get confrontational and even a dangerous "call the police" scenario.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Redneck Gravy on April 26, 2013, 12:26:27 PM
I briefly kept books for a small restaurant... base pay was $3 per hour

If tips are on credit cards the waitstaff receives them at the end of the evening and it goes towards making sure that the restaurant is paying at least minimum wage and income tax wages come into play for withholding

if the employee is tipped in cash, it is not counted in their pay and thus is not included in wages for income tax purposes

(because if the employee is not making at least minimum wage - the restaurant has to pay the difference until it meets minimum wage)

While we never had to make up the difference between our base hourly wage and minimum wage, I know for a fact that many of the waitstaff are not having to pay the same rate of income tax as the rest of us!

And it is a bookkeeping nightmare some nights...

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: gollymolly2 on April 26, 2013, 12:26:54 PM
As others have said, wages depend on the state. The lowest anyone can get is $2.13, which is the federal minimum for tipped employees. In other states and cities, the minimum is higher. I waited tables at the same chain restaurant in two different states; in one I got $2.13/hour, in the other I got about $8/hour.

In any event, the minimum wage always comes up in tipping threads and I really think it's a red herring. We tip because it's customary in the US, and there's basically a social contract. If you go out to eat,you leave a tip. That tip can vary based on the level of service and other factors, but it's a violation of the social contract to go out to eat and not leave a tip simply because you think it's a bad system. Many of the etiquette rules we discuss here are customary and I'm always curious why we struggle so much with that idea when it comes to tips.

A solution to the tipping "problem" is that we could have all restaurants simply raise their prices by 15-25%. In most restaurants, it's a safe bet that the waitstaff wouldn't end up bringing home 100% of that increase. The ability of a customer to address poor service and reward great service Wuld be taken away. So basically, the only people who would "win" are restaurant owners.

The current system gives customers some control and gives waiters the opportunity to make a good living. Minimum wage is irrelevant.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 26, 2013, 12:37:43 PM
I don't have a problem with the concept of tipping.  I do have a problem with the steady increase in the percentage we are 'supposed' to leave and with the proliferation of people who expect to be tipped.

I think servers here make slightly less than regular minimum wage.  Minimum wage is ~$10, servers minimum is ~$8.  It used to be that 10% was considered a good tip.  Then it went up to 15% and now, 'they', whoever 'they' are, say it should be more like 20%.  Not going to happen, from my wallet, unless the service is stellar.  Our tax here is 13% so I tip the tax, rounded up close to a dollar.  So if the tax came out to $2.43, I'd leave at least $3 and a little more if I had quarters.  If the service was lacking, I'd round down to $2.  And if it was worse than that, I'd speak to the manager.

And to answer the OP's question, I've never seen the server run out after a patron but I have been there when the server confronted the person paying the bill.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Cat-Fu on April 26, 2013, 12:51:54 PM
Outdoor Girl, I think the main issue with the rising tip percentages is that the minimum wage for service workers has stayed the same for 20 years, while costs and taxes have obviously increased. (FTR, Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington are the states where servers are paid minimum wage with no regard for tips.)

I have seen a waiter run out after a patron as I was walking into a restaurant, though that was because she thought the family hadn't paid their bill. The dad claimed (quite aggressively, IMO) that he left cash on the table, but I shamelessly eavesdropped once I was in the restaurant and apparently they hadn't even left enough to cover the check, let alone a tip.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 26, 2013, 12:57:00 PM
Quote
but I have been there when the server confronted the person paying the bill.

But what right does a server have to confront the person paying the bill?  ???   They aren't stealing.  The only person the server should be "confronting" is the owner of the restaurant (I'm not understanding why the owner/management is left blameless).

Can anyone address this?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 26, 2013, 12:57:38 PM
I don't have a problem with the concept of tipping.  I do have a problem with the steady increase in the percentage we are 'supposed' to leave and with the proliferation of people who expect to be tipped.

I think servers here make slightly less than regular minimum wage.  Minimum wage is ~$10, servers minimum is ~$8.  It used to be that 10% was considered a good tip.  Then it went up to 15% and now, 'they', whoever 'they' are, say it should be more like 20%.  Not going to happen, from my wallet, unless the service is stellar.  Our tax here is 13% so I tip the tax, rounded up close to a dollar.  So if the tax came out to $2.43, I'd leave at least $3 and a little more if I had quarters.  If the service was lacking, I'd round down to $2.  And if it was worse than that, I'd speak to the manager.

And to answer the OP's question, I've never seen the server run out after a patron but I have been there when the server confronted the person paying the bill.

While I agree tips have been steadily rising, I can say in my lifetime (and I'm over 35 years old) 10% was never a norm in NYC. As a very small child I remember my dad explaining to me about tips and the rule back then was "double the tax" which has hovered at about 8-9% in NY my whole life, which put the norm at 16-18%. By the time I was in junior high in the late 80's early 90's and kids were going to diners by ourselves, everyone seemed to just know the "double the tax" rule and even when I went to HS in a different county but same city everyone knew doubling the tax was the norm.

And to be honest just about everyone I know still doubles the tax and then rounds up or down depending on the service, which keeps the normal tip rate between 15-20%. I think as much as anything tips are higher now because the bills are higher, so the same rate is of a higher total. 18% of a $10 check ($1.80) vs a $20 check ($3.60) makes it feel like tips went up, when really they didn't.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Dorrie78 on April 26, 2013, 01:11:43 PM
As others have said, wages depend on the state. The lowest anyone can get is $2.13, which is the federal minimum for tipped employees. In other states and cities, the minimum is higher. I waited tables at the same chain restaurant in two different states; in one I got $2.13/hour, in the other I got about $8/hour.

In any event, the minimum wage always comes up in tipping threads and I really think it's a red herring. We tip because it's customary in the US, and there's basically a social contract. If you go out to eat,you leave a tip. That tip can vary based on the level of service and other factors, but it's a violation of the social contract to go out to eat and not leave a tip simply because you think it's a bad system. Many of the etiquette rules we discuss here are customary and I'm always curious why we struggle so much with that idea when it comes to tips.

A solution to the tipping "problem" is that we could have all restaurants simply raise their prices by 15-25%. In most restaurants, it's a safe bet that the waitstaff wouldn't end up bringing home 100% of that increase. The ability of a customer to address poor service and reward great service Wuld be taken away. So basically, the only people who would "win" are restaurant owners.

The current system gives customers some control and gives waiters the opportunity to make a good living. Minimum wage is irrelevant.
And also, a decent waiter at a restaurant with a normal amount of customers will be making far more than minimum wage with the tips. When I used to wait tables, I was probably earning more than $15 an hour including tips (this was at a coffee shop type place). I would have been firmly opposed to taking away the tips and raising my salary to minimum wage. That would have been a huge pay cut!
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Margo on April 26, 2013, 01:12:53 PM
My dad had a waiter 'chase' him - he and some colleagues went to the US on a business trip - they had a terrible journey with a very rough flight, lots of turbulence, the flight being delayed, then diverted, then delayed again, so when they arrived and went to get food they had all been awake for almost 24 hours. My dad said by the time they had eaten they were all pretty much sleepwalking and didn't remember to tip - the waiter rushed after them asking if anything was wrong, did they have a complaint.. He said they were very polite and appeared genuinely concerned. 

My dad & his colleagues apologised, explained about the jet lag, and gave them a decent tip.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: rose red on April 26, 2013, 01:21:00 PM
I've seen this happen twice, both times for work lunches.  The first time, there were about 20 of us and the person paying the bill assumed the tip was included since we were such a large group.  The waiter came outside and said the tip wasn't included (I forget his exact words). 

The second time was with a smaller group, but somehow a tip wasn't left and the the waiter came outside too.

I got chased down in another country because the waitress told us we forgot to take our money and left it on the table ;D
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Twik on April 26, 2013, 01:27:10 PM
A good waiter never chases anyone over a tip. They realize that asking for a tip is sort of like demanding that your beloved tell you that they really, truly love you - when it's all over, you know it was forced, and worth very little compared to your lost dignity.

However, money is money, and servers are no different than the rest of us. Some may indeed be indignant enough to force a confrontation.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 26, 2013, 01:27:55 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 26, 2013, 01:30:58 PM
A good waiter never chases anyone over a tip. They realize that asking for a tip is sort of like demanding that your beloved tell you that they really, truly love you - when it's all over, you know it was forced, and worth very little compared to your lost dignity.

However, money is money, and servers are no different than the rest of us. Some may indeed be indignant enough to force a confrontation.

I disagree. The ony waiter that will ever "chasse you down" is one that has done their job, not one one who would risk the embarrassment of being told that they did not do their job.

And sorry, but its not like demanding that "beloved tell you that they really, truly love you."  Not at all.  They worked for you, you should pay them.  That is the custom.   Taking advantage of the fact that its a custom and not a law, is rude.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: jedikaiti on April 26, 2013, 01:34:14 PM
I got chased once. A couple friends & I decided to try a new restaurant - the food wasn't bad, but the service wasn't all that good. Lots of wondering where our waiter was. We still left a decent (but not stellar) tip, and when we were outside deciding where to go next, he came outside and yelled at us. I told him if he wanted better tips, he should try actually serving his tables.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 26, 2013, 01:38:14 PM
Outdoor Girl, I think the main issue with the rising tip percentages is that the minimum wage for service workers has stayed the same for 20 years, while costs and taxes have obviously increased. (FTR, Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington are the states where servers are paid minimum wage with no regard for tips.)

Like I said, server minimum wage here is only a little bit below regular minimum wage, AFAIK.  When I first started tipping in university, 10% was the norm.  In the '90's and early '00's, 15% was the norm.  And now, 20% is the norm.  If the servers were making the wage that many of the servers in the US make, it wouldn't bother me but here?  I think it is getting ridiculous.

Re:  server confrontation:  We were a large group.  Service wasn't fantastic but because we were chatting with each other, we didn't care.  Tip came out just shy of 15% (in 2004) and the server confronted the person who collected everyone's money and paid the cheque, nastily.  Needless to say, she didn't get any more money.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Twik on April 26, 2013, 01:38:56 PM
So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."


Yes, but s/he is working without necessarily a "meeting of the minds" as to how good a job must be done for a certain level of tip. It could be that the server really *was* atrocious - that sort of server, in fact, is probably more likely to wax indignant than a good one, who takes things in stride. And yes, I would expect a bad waiter to be much more aggressive than one who has done their job properly, because that sort of aggressive, yet short-sighted, person is likely to be a bad waiter (see jedikaiti's post for an example).

The tipping system does have some glaring problems, but none of those entitle the server to confront a customer, and demand that they do better. There will, always, be people who do not tip/tip inadequately. The majority of people will tip, and some will tip very well. Unless you are a poor server, or you are unlucky enough to work somewhere that the customers are all skinflints, the law of averages will prevail. If you don't like it, you could lobby for the elimination of tipping, and every server being paid a flat wage - and yet, few servers really would like to see that.

Confronting someone that they MUST give you a tip is simply not effective. The person is either going to refuse (which is their right by law), or pay reluctantly, and never, ever return to the restaurant.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 26, 2013, 01:45:22 PM
When you choose to dine in a restaurant in the US you are agreeing to the social contract that oncludes tipping. The protocol does allow some freedom to shift up or down on the scale but you have agreed to tip. It really is theft if you don't. They shouldn't chase people bit I understand the urge.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: rose red on April 26, 2013, 01:53:49 PM
It doesn't have to mean a nasty confrontation.  In this thread, there are stories about waiters asking if they were satisfied with the service.  There are also stories about customers genuinely forgetting to leave a tip.  A good waiter should know how to get to the bottom of things in a polite way to find out what kind of tipper the customer is.  And if a customer don't tip no matter what, they probably don't want their continued business anyway.

Of course, a waiter shouldn't be nasty or call people names just because a customer forgot to leave a tip or leave a small tip. 
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MrTango on April 26, 2013, 02:01:14 PM
So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."


Yes, but s/he is working without necessarily a "meeting of the minds" as to how good a job must be done for a certain level of tip. It could be that the server really *was* atrocious - that sort of server, in fact, is probably more likely to wax indignant than a good one, who takes things in stride. And yes, I would expect a bad waiter to be much more aggressive than one who has done their job properly, because that sort of aggressive, yet short-sighted, person is likely to be a bad waiter (see jedikaiti's post for an example).

The tipping system does have some glaring problems, but none of those entitle the server to confront a customer, and demand that they do better. There will, always, be people who do not tip/tip inadequately. The majority of people will tip, and some will tip very well. Unless you are a poor server, or you are unlucky enough to work somewhere that the customers are all skinflints, the law of averages will prevail. If you don't like it, you could lobby for the elimination of tipping, and every server being paid a flat wage - and yet, few servers really would like to see that.

Confronting someone that they MUST give you a tip is simply not effective. The person is either going to refuse (which is their right by law), or pay reluctantly, and never, ever return to the restaurant.

Or, more likely, they'll refuse to pay, never return to the restaurant, and everyone they know will hear about how the waiter tried to shake them down for more money.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Saturnine Rodent on April 26, 2013, 02:03:53 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

i never said i disliked the system, i was just confused as heck  :o no one else where i am really has this tipping mentality and i was curious, i was merely asking for information and confirmation. i don't inherently dislike the system as it seems to work well enough in america, i just wanted to know why it happened and how  :)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Momiitz on April 26, 2013, 02:17:56 PM

[/quote]

In many states they DO get at least minimum wage plus tips.
[/quote]

Only four states give the federal minimum wage for tipped employees, Alaska, California, Nevada and Washington.

Many states give the minimum of $2.13 an hour. About five states have made the tipped employee minimum wage between $4 and $5.

http://www.paywizard.org/main/minimum-wage/tipped-workers

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 26, 2013, 02:22:24 PM
So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."


Yes, but s/he is working without necessarily a "meeting of the minds" as to how good a job must be done for a certain level of tip. It could be that the server really *was* atrocious - that sort of server, in fact, is probably more likely to wax indignant than a good one, who takes things in stride. And yes, I would expect a bad waiter to be much more aggressive than one who has done their job properly, because that sort of aggressive, yet short-sighted, person is likely to be a bad waiter (see jedikaiti's post for an example).

The tipping system does have some glaring problems, but none of those entitle the server to confront a customer, and demand that they do better. There will, always, be people who do not tip/tip inadequately. The majority of people will tip, and some will tip very well. Unless you are a poor server, or you are unlucky enough to work somewhere that the customers are all skinflints, the law of averages will prevail. If you don't like it, you could lobby for the elimination of tipping, and every server being paid a flat wage - and yet, few servers really would like to see that.

Confronting someone that they MUST give you a tip is simply not effective. The person is either going to refuse (which is their right by law), or pay reluctantly, and never, ever return to the restaurant.

So, now its confronting them and demanding a tip?  That is not what I am talking about.  I think the server has the right to ask the question (as has been illustrated in posts here) if there was some complaint or problem with the service.

The customer should have a good reason for withholding a tip.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 26, 2013, 02:26:33 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

i never said i disliked the system, i was just confused as heck  :o no one else where i am really has this tipping mentality and i was curious, i was merely asking for information and confirmation. i don't inherently dislike the system as it seems to work well enough in america, i just wanted to know why it happened and how  :)

I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: GSNW on April 26, 2013, 02:59:04 PM
This caused me to remember a study I read in college done by some sociologist or another.  He looked at waitstaff who received NO tip (not low tips) and gave them a questionnaire about their experience(s) of not getting a tip.

VERY rarely did the serve correlate no tip with bad service.  They blamed other actors like a penny pincher, someone who ran out of money, or "foreigners."  So I think this serves to underscore what someone else said - is that if you are annoyed enough to completely forgo the tip, you need to tell someone (manager) why.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 26, 2013, 03:04:33 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: sparksals on April 26, 2013, 03:10:10 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.


I don't think you intended to sound so confrontational, Audrey, especially your last sentence.


I tip when I receive good service that warrants a tip.   If a server has to tip out other staff, which I know is the case, then they should be working extra hard to EARN the tip.   I certainly am NOT stealing if I don't leave a tip.  If I don't leave one, I have dang good reason not to do so... and that is because I received poor or slow service.  I don't blame the server for kitchen problems unless the order is wrong.   


Likening not tipping to stealing is a bit much.  I tip very well and rarely do I tip nothing, but it has happened for for very good reason.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: TootsNYC on April 26, 2013, 03:25:12 PM
Sometimes, yes, they do hunt you down in the parking lot/way out of the resturant but it is pretty rare.   

No, they do not really get a minumum wage. Some jobs flat out tell you, you are working for tips. They do have to make up your pay rate if you make less than minumum wage but in reality that rarely happens.

I've never, ever, ever heard of waiters chasing people down in the parking lot.

I have heard of them directly asking "why not a tip?"
That may mostly be because they assume there WAS a tip, and that something must have gone wrong if they didn't get one.

But most of the time, in my experience, waiters don't even know you stiffed them (and yes, in *America,* it's stiffing them) before you've left the restaurant, especially now that so many people put the tip on the charge slip.

Actually, I'm w/ Audrey. I think it *is* stealing if you don't tip the waiter at all. Docking the tip big because the service was bad? OK w/ me. Telling the manager how unhappy you are and THEN not leaving any tip? OK as well. But I've never had service so bad that I didn't tip ANYthing.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 26, 2013, 03:43:04 PM
Quote
I've never, ever, ever heard of waiters chasing people down in the parking lot.

LOL!  Until this thread, you mean!

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Moray on April 26, 2013, 03:49:20 PM
Yeah, it happens occassionally, but not from good waitstaff. It's not normal or appropriate behavior, but it still happens once in a while. 

It's not about whether or not they have a "right" to do it, either. People have the "right" to say whatever they dang well please to each other, but that doesn't make it okay, and it doesn't mean they won't face consequences. (customer complaints, firing, overall decline in customer base, etc.)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 26, 2013, 03:56:13 PM
One of the very first stories I ever read in the archives was written by a woman who went out to eat with some friends, and they didn't tip because they had poorly budgeted. The waitress went out to the parking lot to ask if there had been a problem. The writer was writing in to highlight how awful the waitress' behavior was. The Dame commented on the story that it was the letter writer who was being cast into eHell for not tipping.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 26, 2013, 04:03:56 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

i never said i disliked the system, i was just confused as heck  :o no one else where i am really has this tipping mentality and i was curious, i was merely asking for information and confirmation. i don't inherently dislike the system as it seems to work well enough in america, i just wanted to know why it happened and how  :)

I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.

Audrey, while I agree with many of your points, I would caution that not all restaurants work this way. Some hostess work for base wage and do not see any tips. Some bartenders only get the tips when customers ordered at the bar if the patron tips.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: jedikaiti on April 26, 2013, 04:10:27 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

I think, though, that comparing service w/out tips in tipping v. non-tipping countries is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. In non-tipping countries, tips have never been received and therefore can't be missed. Moving away from an existing tipping system is a somewhat different matter - you go from "If I do really well tonight, I should be able to clear $X" to "No matter what happens tonight, I'll make $Y". It really is a significant mindset change. Also, when phasing out the tipping system, restaurants would end up charging more money to cover the cost of paying their servers more money, and a lot of them would probably lose a lot of business due to higher prices, even if the new price were pretty solidly equivalent to the old price plus tip.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 26, 2013, 04:12:19 PM
One of the very first stories I ever read in the archives was written by a woman who went out to eat with some friends, and they didn't tip because they had poorly budgeted. The waitress went out to the parking lot to ask if there had been a problem. The writer was writing in to highlight how awful the waitress' behavior was. The Dame commented on the story that it was the letter writer who was being cast into eHell for not tipping.

Here it is:

Quote
One Friday night a few years ago, after attending an African American History Month program, several of my sorority sisters and I decided to travel to a nearby town for dinner. The meal cost a little more than we intended, so after covering the check, the six of us could only leave a $3 tip. As we were leaving, our server, "Jane," met us at the front door of the restaurant asking if the service had been less than adequate. "The bill was $70 -- I was expecting a $10 tip -- we only make $2 an hour." Stunned, we all walked past her without a word. When she saw that we weren't going to give her any more money, she said, in front of other employees and patrons, "Well, do me a favor and don't come back!" This happened in February 1995. This restaurant has not received my business since.     Business0820-02

And what did you expect someone to say when confronted with the theft of her service and time? When you eat at a restaurant, the cost of your meal will ALWAYS include the 15% gratuity to the server for acceptable service.  Your waitress served a party of six with obviously no complaints about her service and then gets rewarded with an insulting tip.  You should have scaled back your menu selections to match the budget and failing to do so, apologized profusely to the waitress with a promise to return with the balance of what all six of you owed her.  You six deserved to be humiliated in public for your theivery AND thrown into Etiquette Hell for having the audacity to think I would agree with you and pitch your waitress in Etiquette Hell for you. 
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 26, 2013, 04:13:14 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

i never said i disliked the system, i was just confused as heck  :o no one else where i am really has this tipping mentality and i was curious, i was merely asking for information and confirmation. i don't inherently dislike the system as it seems to work well enough in america, i just wanted to know why it happened and how  :)

I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.

Audrey, while I agree with many of your points, I would caution that not all restaurants work this way. Some hostess work for base wage and do not see any tips. Some bartenders only get the tips when customers ordered at the bar if the patron tips.
Maybe you missed this:

"That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains."
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 26, 2013, 04:15:25 PM
This caused me to remember a study I read in college done by some sociologist or another.  He looked at waitstaff who received NO tip (not low tips) and gave them a questionnaire about their experience(s) of not getting a tip.

VERY rarely did the serve correlate no tip with bad service.  They blamed other actors like a penny pincher, someone who ran out of money, or "foreigners."  So I think this serves to underscore what someone else said - is that if you are annoyed enough to completely forgo the tip, you need to tell someone (manager) why.

This is why I never leave NO tip.  Because then it could look like I just don't tip.  If the service is just a bit off, I just tend to round down instead of up when I calculate my tip percentage.  So if I calculated that I should leave $3.50, decent service, I'd round up to $4 but less than good would get $3.  If service was horrendous, I'd leave a quarter or something but I would seek out the manager to explain why I did that.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 26, 2013, 04:35:17 PM
I think this is a tangent question, but I'll ask it here, since we have US and non-US present.

Non-US people, do you find/think that there is an expectation of tips from tourists from the US in your country?  I'm wondering, if I'm in a non-tipping country, they see me as "oh, she's from the US; they always tip there, so she's going to tip me".

I'm wondering what the expectation of my server is - that I'm going to do a "when in Rome" thing and not tip or tip because I'm an American.  I'm never sure which way to go when abroad - stick with my norm and do what I'm accustomed to doing or not leave a tip (and feel really weirdly about it).

I know the above stories say that waiters have chased people out asking if they forgot their money on the table.  But what's the "inside their head as they're serving me my food - not what they're 'supposed' to say" thought of waiters there?
 
(Editing to add this, because it might make a difference.  MariaE, I think the reason you might have had this happen to you (" I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much") was because they recognized that you weren't American.  I think this really needs to be brought down to a "tipping is always done country" vs a "tipping is never/rarely done country" type of thing.)

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: stargazer on April 26, 2013, 04:59:17 PM


In many states they DO get at least minimum wage plus tips.
[/quote]

Only four states give the federal minimum wage for tipped employees, Alaska, California, Nevada and Washington.

Many states give the minimum of $2.13 an hour. About five states have made the tipped employee minimum wage between $4 and $5.

http://www.paywizard.org/main/minimum-wage/tipped-workers
[/quote]

You are missing some other states: Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, are the other states that pay minimum wage.  And states like Hawaii pay $7 which is less than minimum wage but not a lot. 

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

Not that it matters in how much I tip - heck I'm in California and tip high, but thought it was worth pointing out.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sophia on April 26, 2013, 05:05:53 PM
The idea is silly. I know my evil grandmother never tipped.  She claimed to not truly believe the tips were basically their entire paycheck.  Despite knowing that I'd been a waitress.  No one ever chased her down.

What shocks me is that she returned to eat at the same places.  I not saying she didn't eat a lot of spit. 

I remember I once had miserable service.  It was breakfast in a hotel.  I eventually had to leave even though I'd waited 20 minutes for his attention to ask for my check (pretty unforgivable offense).  I made a great show of gathering my coat, laptop, reading material.  Still no waiter.  I started walking the slowest in my life.  Slower than when I had pneumonia.  Still no waiter.  I made it about 20 feet like that, before the waiter finally showed up with the bill.  He made some grumblings about my walking about on the bill. 

In Europe, I have negotiated the tip (me wanting to give more, them wanting to take less)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Saturnine Rodent on April 26, 2013, 05:15:53 PM
I think this is a tangent question, but I'll ask it here, since we have US and non-US present.

Non-US people, do you find/think that there is an expectation of tips from tourists from the US in your country?  I'm wondering, if I'm in a non-tipping country, they see me as "oh, she's from the US; they always tip there, so she's going to tip me".

where i live it's noted that tourists tend to spend more and tip, especially the American tourists so some of our waiters enjoy tourist season for the extra money  :) however as tipping is unusual in cases of moderate service some waiters will assume you left your money by accident and may attempt to return it   :P you only really tip if you're in a classy restaurant or if you're together in a group as a way of saying 'thanks for putting out with our boisterous noise!' and even then it's not common, unless it's explicitly tourist season they'll normally assume you left your money by accident. i can't speak for everywhere in the UK but that's what it's like where i live  :D
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: kherbert05 on April 26, 2013, 05:31:59 PM
Ah. A good idea to always put the tip on the credit card (if used), to avoid theft, then.


I disagree. I've told this story before. My Dad was a member of a club. The manager of the club decided to save money by switching the servers from non-tipped employees to tipped employees. But he didn't tell the general membership. THe new cards had a spot for tips but since most people have never tipped at a CC, people generally didn't see them. On the rare occasion someone did list a tip there - the manager stole it.


Dad found out about the little con, when one of Dad's employees came to him for advice. The man's University aged child was working at the CC and was now struggling because of the drastic drop in wages. (they had been paid a good deal over min wage). Many members had been very pleased with the new manager's "improvements and increased profitablity" of the club. Dad made it very clear that this was morally corrupt and that when the media got hold of it it was going to play that a bunch of rich white men were cheating a bunch of poor largely Hispanic boys and girls out of fair wages. It took a month or so to fire the jerk. Part of the protest Dad and the other members launched was to tip the kids very well but in cash from member's hand to employee's hand.


Since then I've heard from several friends and family members about times managers stole tips left on cards. I try to hand cash tips to my server.


I've been chased by servers 2x - both because they thought I had left my change by mistake. Actually I had tipped them a large amount because they fixed a difficult situation.


1. The power was out at home. It was summer - in Houston. I was hot, tired and had a splitting head ache. I showered and went to get some food. I went to a Tex Mex place and was ordering one of their plates. The kind shown in a grid. Due to my fatigue and headache my dyslexia flip flopped the grid. I thought the numbers were under the description  they were above the description. The plates were almost identical but my favorite part was left off what I ordered. Once we figured out what I did the waiter talked to the manager and got permission to let me order the item. It is hard to describe how good that made me feel - I was just so tired and uncomfortable I needed that comfort food the kindness was magnified by how down I was. So I left double my normal tip.


The other time was  a new place, with a brand new waiter. He was doing a great job - but the manager or some person in authority kept giving him negative feedback about everything he did at my table. (I don't think the person realized I could hear him - but I have teacher hearing).  Also what the person was telling the server was wrong.  He put the drink down a little farther to the left than normal - but I had an Ipad sitting on the table. So what he really did was put the drink a safe distance from the very expensive electronic. I doubled my tip that time also. I this case I walked back in with him and told the person who had been critiquing him that It was all his tip and complemented him on his excellent service. I didn't go back - I just couldn't stomach the manager's attitude.


The only times I haven't tipped have been
1. When they lied about peanut products in the food and I was leaving to go to the ER. (Don't pay for the meal in that situation either)


2. The manager was so unbelievably rude to my friends and I that we cancelled the order and walked out before being served our food. This was back in the mid 80's when the feds were forcing states to change drinking age. 1/2 of us were of age. 1/2 weren't but had been 6 months before. The 1/2 that were ordered drinks. We were served then the drinks removed and we were told we would not be served. I knew from some comments that my Dad had made that TABC had been conducting sting opperations were mixed groups of nearly legal and legal people at the same time order drinks and the not quite legal people get served because of confusion. I explained to my friends and we agreed to all have tea or soft drinks. The manager got nasty again even though we weren't ordering acholol. We walked at that point. (He wanted us to pay for the drinks he took back - no go. )
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Katana_Geldar on April 26, 2013, 05:37:54 PM
Tipping is rare, but occasionally I will tip. I tipped them at Starbucks yesterday as the girl there remembered I like an extra lid to put my tea bag in so I don't take it with me. But there I put in the tip jar.

We tipped a cab driver once when he helped us get one from Ikea and carried the boxes to the garage.

And we tipped the awesome bartender when cruising $30 at the end of the cruise, because he was so worth it.

Tipping doesn't really bother me, though I don't like the idea that not tipping means you get bad service. The thing that annoys me most about US style dinng is that you have one server who looks after you. You can't just flag anyone down and get more food or the bill, you need to wait for your person who may be at another table in the same section. This gets a lot of fun when bar staff are different from food staff. One night on our honey,own, we waited for ages to get drinks to the point where our waiter said he was going to find the bar waiter and kill him. We a.so learned there were special areas of the dining room to sit in to get shooters.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 26, 2013, 05:45:31 PM
Quote
You can't just flag anyone down and get more food or the bill

Sure you can.  I do all the time with no problem.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 26, 2013, 05:46:23 PM
Me, too.  The flagged down server usually passes the message on to the server assigned to your table.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 26, 2013, 05:48:45 PM
Or even do it themselves.


Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Thipu1 on April 26, 2013, 05:51:20 PM
I've never had a waiter in the USA chase me.

I was once chased down by a waiter in the UK to return a tip.

Once, we were chased down the street and around the corner by a waiter.  He wasn't complaining about not getting a tip.  He thought we didn't pay for our meal and the cost would be taken out of his wages.  The restaurant was a Steak House so the amount would be considerable.

We went back and the problem was quite quickly cleared up.  We had paid and left a generous tip but the server hadn't seen it.  It was an embarrassing time for all concerned.   
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Bottlecaps on April 26, 2013, 06:01:18 PM
Sometimes, yes, they do hunt you down in the parking lot/way out of the resturant but it is pretty rare.   

No, they do not really get a minumum wage. Some jobs flat out tell you, you are working for tips. They do have to make up your pay rate if you make less than minumum wage but in reality that rarely happens.

POD.

I am a waitress - or at least, I will be again soon. I have never, ever, ever chased someone because they didn't tip me. Slight OT - I have, however, as a PP mentioned, chased someone when they didn't pay their bill or didn't leave enough money to cover the bill. Luckily someone trying to walk their check only happened to me once, and they said it was an accident (they thought the other people they were with had paid their check). I still don't know if it was really an accident or not, but I do know that when I came running after them in the parking lot, they paid up, lol.

Me, too.  The flagged down server usually passes the message on to the server assigned to your table.

Or even do it themselves.

This. If your server is busy with another table, absolutely feel free to flag down another who isn't quite so busy at the moment. They will either pass the message on, or if it's something pretty simple (you need a refill or you need an extra roll of silverware or extra napkins), they'll even do it themselves. It's happened to me a few times, both being flagged down by another server's table and having a message passed to me by another server. I'd much rather my table get what they need in a timely manner, even if it's from another server, than have to wait until I'm finished taking another table's order or running food to another table, etc.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Hmmmmm on April 26, 2013, 06:07:12 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

i never said i disliked the system, i was just confused as heck  :o no one else where i am really has this tipping mentality and i was curious, i was merely asking for information and confirmation. i don't inherently dislike the system as it seems to work well enough in america, i just wanted to know why it happened and how  :)

I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.

Audrey, while I agree with many of your points, I would caution that not all restaurants work this way. Some hostess work for base wage and do not see any tips. Some bartenders only get the tips when customers ordered at the bar if the patron tips.
Maybe you missed this:

"That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains."
No, I didn't miss it. I just disagree that it is the "across the board in most large restaurants and chains."

I'm aware of a few large restaurants and local chains that do not follow the practice you describe.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 26, 2013, 06:21:29 PM
Quote
I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.

AudreyQuest, I never said anything about not tipping because it's not a law, (actually I do tip, most of the time) and as far as you telling me to stop eating out, well, I eat out when I choose to and will continue to do so.

As someone else has pointed out, your comments here are unnecessarily confrontational.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Baxter on April 26, 2013, 06:31:29 PM
Something that people from other countries might not realize is that minimum wage in the US isn't very high.  Here in Australia the minimum wage is $15.96 per hour, and is intended to be a "liveable" wage (I don't think it is in reality).  So even if one is earning minimum wage in America, its not enough to live on - so the tips are extra important.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 26, 2013, 06:47:06 PM
Quote
I was responding to reflection5 -- sorry, the reply thingie didn't work for me.

AudreyQuest, I never said anything about not tipping because it's not a law, (actually I do tip, most of the time) and as far as you telling me to stop eating out, well, I eat out when I choose to and will continue to do so.

As someone else has pointed out, your comments here are unnecessarily confrontational.

You has a general and a specific use.  I expected that given the context of my comments that they would be understood to be general.


I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Alpacas on April 26, 2013, 07:13:47 PM
I think this is a tangent question, but I'll ask it here, since we have US and non-US present.

Non-US people, do you find/think that there is an expectation of tips from tourists from the US in your country?  I'm wondering, if I'm in a non-tipping country, they see me as "oh, she's from the US; they always tip there, so she's going to tip me".


I'm from Munich, Germany, where we have lots of tourists throughout  the year.
I am fairly certain that no one would "expect" you to tip more. Germany is not a country where the tip is expected to be part of the waiters wage. They are "tokens of gratitude" for a good service.
If the people tip then they usually leave about 15% of the bill. That usually just means rounding up to the next Euro and adding 50 cents  ;D
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 26, 2013, 07:50:26 PM
My new non-smart cell phone has a tip calculator.  The default percentage is 15%.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MrTango on April 26, 2013, 08:38:04 PM
Ah. A good idea to always put the tip on the credit card (if used), to avoid theft, then.


I disagree. I've told this story before. My Dad was a member of a club. The manager of the club decided to save money by switching the servers from non-tipped employees to tipped employees. But he didn't tell the general membership. THe new cards had a spot for tips but since most people have never tipped at a CC, people generally didn't see them. On the rare occasion someone did list a tip there - the manager stole it.

That isn't the customer's problem.  That's a situation where the server needs to stand up for themselves and report the theft to the authorities.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Library Dragon on April 26, 2013, 09:01:47 PM
Me, too.  The flagged down server usually passes the message on to the server assigned to your table.

There were one or two places we never went back to where the other staff said, "Not my table and ignored us."

We have been followed out by a waiter who didn't count the tip correctly.  He counted a $20 as a $10. 

On our trip to France this past November one couple in our group ate at a different restaurant.  They were told tips weren't included.  Our walking tour guide said they'd been taken. 

Wait staff that I've known have said that they are automatically taxed as receiving 10% in tips.  In thei chain restaurants the talley of their tables is recorded.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: kherbert05 on April 26, 2013, 09:22:32 PM
Ah. A good idea to always put the tip on the credit card (if used), to avoid theft, then.


I disagree. I've told this story before. My Dad was a member of a club. The manager of the club decided to save money by switching the servers from non-tipped employees to tipped employees. But he didn't tell the general membership. THe new cards had a spot for tips but since most people have never tipped at a CC, people generally didn't see them. On the rare occasion someone did list a tip there - the manager stole it.

That isn't the customer's problem.  That's a situation where the server needs to stand up for themselves and report the theft to the authorities.
The server was a young university student - who went to his/her parents for advice. The father worried about his child being hurt financially asked a business person he respected for advice - which resulted in the members getting the unethical manager fired.

Because of that story I make the personal choice to hand cash tips to waiters. That way I'm not chancing an unethical person taking the tip from the table or stealing from the credit card slip.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: White Lotus on April 26, 2013, 10:26:34 PM
I spend a fair amount of time in a no-tipping country.  I also spend a fair amount of time in a bargain for everything, tip everybody all the time country.  I live in the US.
I prefer the Land of No Tipping.  It is restful to just know what things cost.  Bargain-Tipping is exhausting even when you know the language and the system.  They'd chase you down there, for sure.  I have never, before this board, heard of US servers chasing people down who weren't ducking a check or had forgotten something, from anything like a credible source.  I have always thought of it as, in the US, anyway, urban legend.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: weeblewobble on April 26, 2013, 10:52:11 PM
I used to frequent a local Italian place that was right next to my office.  They did a lot of carryout business and kept a pretty ornamental box (with a lid) by the register to collect tips for the hostess/cashiers marked "carryout service tips."  I usually tipped about 20 percent. 

One afternoon, I went in to grab my carryout lunch order.  Unfortunately, the hostess had her back turned and didn't see me drop my tip into the box.  The odd thing was that I was having such a good day, I decided to "pass it on" and tip generously.  As I counted out my cash to pay the bill, I dropped what amounted to a 100 percent tip in the box.  It was the only cash in there, so I guess I was the first tip of the day. When my transaction was complete, I called a cheery thank you to the hostess and walked to the door. I guess she didn't check the box, because she hollered, "You know, it's NICE to tip the people who handle your FOOD.  Especially if you come in here a lot.  Cheapskate."

I literally froze in my tracks.  I turned around, opened the box to show her the bills I'd just dropped in and said, "I'm going to need to speak to your manager."  The woman's face went white, but she went to get the manager, who apologized profusely.  I didn't take the tip back. I refused an offer for a gift card. But I did inform the manager that due to the hostess's attitude and the fact that she would be handling my food, I was not comfortable coming back to the restaurant.  So they'd just lost a regular customer who came in at least once a week.  I've never been back.   
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: kareng57 on April 26, 2013, 10:57:11 PM
My new non-smart cell phone has a tip calculator.  The default percentage is 15%.


I don't have a phone with a tip calculator - but, when I'm paying by credit or debit card and it offers me the calculation - it's based on after-tax, not before-tax.  I don't believe in tipping on the tax, but I'll admit that sometimes if my brain cells are getting weary, I'll just let the machine figure it out....
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: nuit93 on April 26, 2013, 10:59:51 PM
Ah. A good idea to always put the tip on the credit card (if used), to avoid theft, then.


I disagree. I've told this story before. My Dad was a member of a club. The manager of the club decided to save money by switching the servers from non-tipped employees to tipped employees. But he didn't tell the general membership. THe new cards had a spot for tips but since most people have never tipped at a CC, people generally didn't see them. On the rare occasion someone did list a tip there - the manager stole it.

That isn't the customer's problem.  That's a situation where the server needs to stand up for themselves and report the theft to the authorities.

Sadly, that's a great way to get fired in a lot of companies.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Giggity on April 27, 2013, 12:09:15 AM
well, i live in the UK so tipping isn't something you do unless you received phenomenal service, over here it's become a running joke that if you don't tip waiters in america they will do anything short of kidnapping you to get you to pay extra.  ;D what is with the obsession with tipping? surely you just pay the price of the food on the menu, i mean, i know waiters are paid badly but don't they receive minimum wage?  :o and do waiters really hunt you down if you don't pay up? i'm really curious if it's true as it's not something we do here  :)

Really?

Uh, no.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MrsJWine on April 27, 2013, 12:47:33 AM
This is such a strange question. I've never heard of anyone chasing someone down for a tip. And if I did, I'd conclude that person was the worst server ever. It's kind of an unwritten rule that you don't even mention tipping to customers, unless they're people you've very at ease with. In fact, when customers did give me the tip in person instead of leaving it on the table, it always made me deeply uncomfortable.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 27, 2013, 01:32:45 AM
well, i live in the UK so tipping isn't something you do unless you received phenomenal service, over here it's become a running joke that if you don't tip waiters in america they will do anything short of kidnapping you to get you to pay extra.  ;D what is with the obsession with tipping? surely you just pay the price of the food on the menu, i mean, i know waiters are paid badly but don't they receive minimum wage?  :o and do waiters really hunt you down if you don't pay up? i'm really curious if it's true as it's not something we do here  :)

Really?

Uh, no.

Uh, yes. Keep reading the thread.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: SheltieMom on April 27, 2013, 02:54:56 AM
My son and his wife both work at the same restaurant, as server and hostess. They each make $2.13 an hour, and the tips are split between them, the busboys, and the bartenders. Income taxes are automatically taken out of their checks, regardless of whether or not they actually get a tip. So if you don't tip, you are actually costing several people a part of their income, even though they may not be responsible for your service.
My son got a $2 tip on a $150 check a few weeks ago because the kitchen messed up an order, and a different server delivered the food and didn't catch the mistake. And yes, the restaurant requires any server to take food out if they are not busy and the original server is waiting on another table.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: kglory on April 27, 2013, 04:10:23 AM
When I was young, my mom taught me that the rate to tip was $1 for every $7 (in essence, 15%). She was good at math, so this was easy for her to remember.

The first time I went out with a friend to a sit-down restaurant as a preteen, I incorrectly remembered it as 7 cents per dollar!  OOPS.  So mortified.  To the waitress from the Friendly's at the mall in the 1980s - sorry!  I knew something was wrong when our tip was like 40 cents apiece....

More recently, as a university student, I was out with my roommate and her 3 friends for a moderate level sit down restaurant. I knew her but had never met those 3 guys before.  Well, we had a regular meal with regular service, but at the end, the waitress accidentally gave us the check for the next table only, which had only 2 people!  And we were 5 eating meals!  The 3 guys got so excited and started to wink and whisper about dropping a $20 on the table to cover the incorrect bill and running out the door!  I knew this would come from the waitress's paycheck, so I wasn't going to let that happen.  I tried to see if I  had enough cash on hand to discreetly leave what I thought was the full amount of our bill, but of course I didn't.  So then I did signal the waitress and inform her that the bill was wrong.  Those 3 guys gave me the stinkeye all night.  Losers!  Like that e-hell story, they were all adults going out for dinner, and forget tipping, how could they think of not even paying for their meals?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Corvid on April 27, 2013, 08:20:02 AM
I"ve spent a a lot of time in a particular country where tipping is not expected, and while I don't really have any complaints about the service because different places have different ways and you have to roll with that, I will say that the service there was definitely not as attentive as I get here in the U.S. where servers work partially for tips.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Katana_Geldar on April 27, 2013, 08:56:32 AM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Snooks on April 27, 2013, 09:06:39 AM
My expectation of service in the US is a lot higher because I know they're working for tips.  I normally tip 15% when we're in the US, unfortunately I have found that the service often takes a nosedive when we don't order alcohol.  On our most recent trip to the US (2011) we gave a higher tip to a waiter who didn't go above and beyond but was attentive in just the right amount (prompt to the table, friendly, unintrusive) and dropped tips to a waitress who ignored us in a nearly empty restaurant and then served the group who was seated after us before us and came to us with no apology for the wait.  I never tip on the tax, I was told that by a Canadian relative.

In the UK standard tip is roughly 10%, we ate out this week and for the first time ever I actually halved the tip because the waitress tried to charge me for a drink I didn't have, our desserts came out at different times and she failed to bring us the water we asked for, I wouldn't have minded but I was so tired I could barely get my words out and she finished the sentence for me when I was asking for the water so it's not like she didn't hear me!  I've been in a group and tried to argue against the auto-gratuity when the waitress served us frozen garlic bread but all my friends said we had to tip.  I just didn't include a tip with my share.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: zinzin on April 27, 2013, 09:35:45 AM
well, i live in the UK so tipping isn't something you do unless you received phenomenal service, over here it's become a running joke that if you don't tip waiters in america they will do anything short of kidnapping you to get you to pay extra.  ;D what is with the obsession with tipping? surely you just pay the price of the food on the menu, i mean, i know waiters are paid badly but don't they receive minimum wage?  :o and do waiters really hunt you down if you don't pay up? i'm really curious if it's true as it's not something we do here  :)

Really?

Uh, no.

Uh, yes. Keep reading the thread.

While there are some anecdotes, her question asked it as if wondering were it a common or standard thing - it is not. I think even though who have directly experienced it would likely agree that being "tailed" by a waiter is uncommon. I know several people that have worked that job and never ever followed someone down for non-tipping.

It can happen, sure, but it's not a common practice would be the most correct answer.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 27, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.

Well, you knowingly skipped out on part of your bill so ehell worthy and also criminal. Valid options would have included complaining to management, reflecting service issues in the tip, posting reviews, never returning. Theft - not so much.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 09:55:49 AM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.

Well, you knowingly skipped out on part of your bill so ehell worthy and also criminal. Valid options would have included complaining to management, reflecting service issues in the tip, posting reviews, never returning. Theft - not so much.

I was a little confused about this - Katana_Geldar, did you mean you were given someone else's bill which was less than what your bill would have been?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Giggity on April 27, 2013, 09:57:20 AM
well, i live in the UK so tipping isn't something you do unless you received phenomenal service, over here it's become a running joke that if you don't tip waiters in america they will do anything short of kidnapping you to get you to pay extra.  ;D what is with the obsession with tipping? surely you just pay the price of the food on the menu, i mean, i know waiters are paid badly but don't they receive minimum wage?  :o and do waiters really hunt you down if you don't pay up? i'm really curious if it's true as it's not something we do here  :)

Really?

Uh, no.

Uh, yes. Keep reading the thread.

While there are some anecdotes, her question asked it as if wondering were it a common or standard thing - it is not. I think even though who have directly experienced it would likely agree that being "tailed" by a waiter is uncommon. I know several people that have worked that job and never ever followed someone down for non-tipping.

It can happen, sure, but it's not a common practice would be the most correct answer.

Thanks! Exactly.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 27, 2013, 09:58:59 AM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.

Well, you knowingly skipped out on part of your bill so ehell worthy and also criminal. Valid options would have included complaining to management, reflecting service issues in the tip, posting reviews, never returning. Theft - not so much.

I was a little confused about this - Katana_Geldar, did you mean you were given someone else's bill which was less than what your bill would have been?

If that had happened to me, I might have paid the lesser bill but added a tip that would cover what my bill should have been, without tip.  Especially if I just wanted to get out of there.  But I wouldn't have left less money than I minimally owed.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 27, 2013, 10:35:06 AM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: TinyVulgarUnicorn on April 27, 2013, 01:09:44 PM
I've never heard of the concept of the waiters having to pay the restaurant for a meal that the guests have essentially stolen (like when guests leave before paying, not paying for what they owe, etc).  In every other industry I've heard of, when people steal stuff it's considered shoplifting or theft and the employee is not liable for the costs and they definitely don't have their wages garnished.

Why is it okay for employers to garnish wages from waiters for people stealing food?  I don't want to get into legal territory, but it just doesn't seem like that should be legal.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: NyaChan on April 27, 2013, 01:14:25 PM
I think part of the reason is that the restaurant considers it the waiter's job to present the bill and collect payment - i.e. pay close enough attention that someone can't leave without paying their bill.  Think of it as working as a cashier:  If they just handed over the food and said "That'll be $5" but never made sure to get the money, they'd be in trouble right? 

I believe it is also meant to deter people pocketing the money and claiming nonpayment or from giving away free food to their friends.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: kareng57 on April 27, 2013, 01:15:46 PM
I've never heard of the concept of the waiters having to pay the restaurant for a meal that the guests have essentially stolen (like when guests leave before paying, not paying for what they owe, etc).  In every other industry I've heard of, when people steal stuff it's considered shoplifting or theft and the employee is not liable for the costs and they definitely don't have their wages garnished.

Why is it okay for employers to garnish wages from waiters for people stealing food?  I don't want to get into legal territory, but it just doesn't seem like that should be legal.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean that it never happens.  I remember about 30 years ago in a restaurant a frazzled waitress was chasing a customer who'd skipped out on the bill - yelling something like "you're stealing $35 from me".  Dh and a few sympathetic customers joined in the chase but no one ever caught up with him.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: TootsNYC on April 27, 2013, 02:01:48 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: camlan on April 27, 2013, 02:31:18 PM
One time a friend and I were having dinner out at a nice restaurant. At the table next to us was what I'll call the Obnoxious Family. Mom, Dad, two small kids. The kids were running around and yelling. Throwing food on the floor, spilling on the tablecloth, rubbing crumbs into their hair. The waitress had to bring refills for their drinks twice, because the kids kept spilling them.

The parents were worse. They complained about every single item that was brought to their table. The rolls weren't warm enough. Not that the rolls were cold, mind you. Just that they weren't warm *enough*. There was too much ice in their sodas. They asked for extra croutons on the salad and not tomatoes, but didn't get enough croutons. Everything they ordered had some change from the menu, either an addition or subtraction or substitution. They claimed that none of their special requests was correct. (Which I found odd, as this restaurant was very good at special requests and a lot of people with allergies eat there because they are so good with the special requests.)

How did we know all this? Because they kept broadcasting their displeasure in loud tones that echoed throughout the dining room.

Their waitress was almost in tears at one point--I thought the dad was going to throw a plate of food at her. She was running back and forth, really trying to get things right for them. She brought the manager to them at one point and the manager tried to both assure them that the restaurant was doing its best to cater to them, and also to get them to rein in the kids a bit, which they finally did. The manager also comped their desserts because they complained so much.

When they finally left, they announced loudly to the waitress that they were not leaving a tip, because her service had been so poor. All of us at the surrounding tables were not pleased.

When the waitress came back to the table to start to clean up the mess--with the overturned glasses of soda, the crumbs on the floor and the chairs--she was a little surprised to find out that she did have a tip. Everyone at the surrounding tables had been sliding a dollar or two under one of the plates--I think she ended up with about $25. Not really enough to compensate for dealing with that family, though.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 27, 2013, 03:15:27 PM
I used to frequent a local Italian place that was right next to my office.  They did a lot of carryout business and kept a pretty ornamental box (with a lid) by the register to collect tips for the hostess/cashiers marked "carryout service tips."  I usually tipped about 20 percent. 

One afternoon, I went in to grab my carryout lunch order.  Unfortunately, the hostess had her back turned and didn't see me drop my tip into the box.  The odd thing was that I was having such a good day, I decided to "pass it on" and tip generously.  As I counted out my cash to pay the bill, I dropped what amounted to a 100 percent tip in the box.  It was the only cash in there, so I guess I was the first tip of the day. When my transaction was complete, I called a cheery thank you to the hostess and walked to the door. I guess she didn't check the box, because she hollered, "You know, it's NICE to tip the people who handle your FOOD.  Especially if you come in here a lot.  Cheapskate."

I literally froze in my tracks.  I turned around, opened the box to show her the bills I'd just dropped in and said, "I'm going to need to speak to your manager."  The woman's face went white, but she went to get the manager, who apologized profusely.  I didn't take the tip back. I refused an offer for a gift card. But I did inform the manager that due to the hostess's attitude and the fact that she would be handling my food, I was not comfortable coming back to the restaurant.  So they'd just lost a regular customer who came in at least once a week.  I've never been back.

Wait, this was a carryout restaurant?  I didn't think you needed to tip at a place where you don't get table service?  I mean, they're not bringing things to you at the table, getting you napkins and drinks, etc., they're just handing you your order, right?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 03:24:23 PM
Quote
"You know, it's NICE to tip the people who handle your FOOD.  Especially if you come in here a lot.  Cheapskate."

 :o  >:(

Outrageous.  I really think she should have been fired.

I did a search and saw that this board really lights up bigtime whenever the subject of tipping is brought up (not sure why).  But in another thread the issue of whether or not to tip on carryout food was discussed,  There are different opinions.

But to insult a regular customer (or any customer) and namecall like that is so over the top and wrong. 
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 27, 2013, 03:26:03 PM
I always tip with carry out.

And I also tip on the full amount on bills - ie, including the tax.

Quote
Income taxes are automatically taken out of their checks

On what amount? (That's a curiosity question - not a snarky one. I'm really asking what numbers they use to determine it.)

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: CharlieBraun on April 27, 2013, 03:31:23 PM
I used to frequent a local Italian place that was right next to my office.  They did a lot of carryout business and kept a pretty ornamental box (with a lid) by the register to collect tips for the hostess/cashiers marked "carryout service tips."  I usually tipped about 20 percent. 
(snip tree)
 So they'd just lost a regular customer who came in at least once a week.  I've never been back.

Wait, this was a carryout restaurant?  I didn't think you needed to tip at a place where you don't get table service?  I mean, they're not bringing things to you at the table, getting you napkins and drinks, etc., they're just handing you your order, right?

I bolded the part of the related post - the restaurant did a lot of carryout, but seems not to have been solely carryout.

I seem to recall that we had an entire thread about tipping on carryout, and the consensus was 10%.  So yes, it is customary to tip for carryout, although "needing" to tip is kind of the discussion of so many of these threads.  Personally speaking, I would never not tip; the only variant is the percentage.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 27, 2013, 03:32:05 PM
I very rarely get carry out or delivery.  If I get delivery and there is no separate delivery fee, I'll tip ~15% to the driver.  If there is a delivery fee, I generally tip a little less, more like 10%.  But for carry out, they are saving on dishes and table clean up, saving on bussing and on plating.  So I will tip but generally just round up to the nearest dollar or add another dollar if that would be less than 50 cents.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Katana_Geldar on April 27, 2013, 03:38:26 PM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.

Well, you knowingly skipped out on part of your bill so ehell worthy and also criminal. Valid options would have included complaining to management, reflecting service issues in the tip, posting reviews, never returning. Theft - not so much.

I was a little confused about this - Katana_Geldar, did you mean you were given someone else's bill which was less than what your bill would have been?
We only tip here for exceptional service as servers get a liveable minimum wage. There's no way I was giving them extra money. The food was actually that disgusting that I wanted to send it back to the kitchen and not pay for it at all. They were lucky to get what they got.

DH actually said at the time that he usually would have said something. But our experience was so bad...
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: kareng57 on April 27, 2013, 03:41:46 PM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.

Well, you knowingly skipped out on part of your bill so ehell worthy and also criminal. Valid options would have included complaining to management, reflecting service issues in the tip, posting reviews, never returning. Theft - not so much.

I was a little confused about this - Katana_Geldar, did you mean you were given someone else's bill which was less than what your bill would have been?
We only tip here for exceptional service as servers get a liveable minimum wage. There's no way I was giving them extra money. The food was actually that disgusting that I wanted to send it back to the kitchen and not pay for it at all. They were lucky to get what they got.

DH actually said at the time that he usually would have said something. But our experience was so bad...


The server was not responsible for the quality of the food.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: SiotehCat on April 27, 2013, 03:44:20 PM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.

Well, you knowingly skipped out on part of your bill so ehell worthy and also criminal. Valid options would have included complaining to management, reflecting service issues in the tip, posting reviews, never returning. Theft - not so much.

I was a little confused about this - Katana_Geldar, did you mean you were given someone else's bill which was less than what your bill would have been?
We only tip here for exceptional service as servers get a liveable minimum wage. There's no way I was giving them extra money. The food was actually that disgusting that I wanted to send it back to the kitchen and not pay for it at all. They were lucky to get what they got.

DH actually said at the time that he usually would have said something. But our experience was so bad...

I am still confused. Did you pay your bill or not?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 03:56:28 PM
I always tip with carry out.

And I also tip on the full amount on bills - ie, including the tax.

Quote
Income taxes are automatically taken out of their checks

On what amount? (That's a curiosity question - not a snarky one. I'm really asking what numbers they use to determine it.)

The thing about carry out is that sometimes the order isn't what you asked for (orders get mixed up) or the food quality just is not good.  Unlike eating inside, you don't find this out until later when you actually open up the bag.

Case in point:  A companion and I went into a very high end respaurent and decided to get our food to go.  He left a very generous tip.  When we got home (the other side of town) we opened our bag and discovered they hadn't put any meat on either of the sandwiches.  We were not pleased.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Katana_Geldar on April 27, 2013, 03:58:55 PM
I may end up in e hell for this, but I have been given the wrong bill in a restaurant and I have paid for it. But that was because the food was terrible and the servers were bothering us every five minutes. DH and I were on our second date and we could barely complete a conversation sentence when someone would come up and ask us if our meal was all right.

Well, you knowingly skipped out on part of your bill so ehell worthy and also criminal. Valid options would have included complaining to management, reflecting service issues in the tip, posting reviews, never returning. Theft - not so much.

I was a little confused about this - Katana_Geldar, did you mean you were given someone else's bill which was less than what your bill would have been?
We only tip here for exceptional service as servers get a liveable minimum wage. There's no way I was giving them extra money. The food was actually that disgusting that I wanted to send it back to the kitchen and not pay for it at all. They were lucky to get what they got.

DH actually said at the time that he usually would have said something. But our experience was so bad...


The server was not responsible for the quality of the food.

No, but they were for the bad service. Bringing us the wrong bill was just a crowner. So we paid it, which was less, and left.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 27, 2013, 04:25:20 PM
Yeah, knowingly paying less than you owed because you didn't think the quality was good and you didn't care to talk to management is far worse than an etiquette breach.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Bottlecaps on April 27, 2013, 05:12:59 PM

The thing about carry out is that sometimes the order isn't what you asked for (orders get mixed up) or the food quality just is not good.  Unlike eating inside, you don't find this out until later when you actually open up the bag.

Case in point:  A companion and I went into a very high end respaurent and decided to get our food to go.  He left a very generous tip.  When we got home (the other side of town) we opened our bag and discovered they hadn't put any meat on either of the sandwiches.  We were not pleased.

That's why I always check the food before I leave the restaurant, or at least the parking lot. That way if there's a mix-up, I can get it corrected while I'm still there. :) (The only reason I do this is because that same thing has happened to me a couple of times, except I didn't know it until I got home, so now I'd rather check while I'm still there and get it corrected, if need be, before I leave the premises.)

Yeah, knowingly paying less than you owed because you didn't think the quality was good and you didn't care to talk to management is far worse than an etiquette breach.

POD. That means that either A) another table got and paid your bill, not noticing the price difference, which was more than what they owed and therefore unfair to them; B) the server had to pay the leftover portion of your bill, which was unfair to him/her, or C) the restaurant ended up just writing it off, which was unfair to the restaurant. Even with bad service, it's never OK to skip out on your check, either in part or in whole.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 05:23:50 PM

The thing about carry out is that sometimes the order isn't what you asked for (orders get mixed up) or the food quality just is not good.  Unlike eating inside, you don't find this out until later when you actually open up the bag.

Case in point:  A companion and I went into a very high end respaurent and decided to get our food to go.  He left a very generous tip.  When we got home (the other side of town) we opened our bag and discovered they hadn't put any meat on either of the sandwiches.  We were not pleased.

That's why I always check the food before I leave the restaurant, or at least the parking lot. That way if there's a mix-up, I can get it corrected while I'm still there. :) (The only reason I do this is because that same thing has happened to me a couple of times, except I didn't know it until I got home, so now I'd rather check while I'm still there and get it corrected, if need be, before I leave the premises.)

Yeah, knowingly paying less than you owed because you didn't think the quality was good and you didn't care to talk to management is far worse than an etiquette breach.

POD. That means that either A) another table got and paid your bill, not noticing the price difference, which was more than what they owed and therefore unfair to them; B) the server had to pay the leftover portion of your bill, which was unfair to him/her, or C) the restaurant ended up just writing it off, which was unfair to the restaurant. Even with bad service, it's never OK to skip out on your check, either in part or in whole.

re: bolded

Yes, I learned a long time ago to do that.    Sometimes it can get awkward, especially in a nice restaurant, but it's still a good idea.

I agree about skipping out on the check - whole or part.  People have gotten arrested for that (it's called theft of services).  Talking to the manager was the thing to do.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 27, 2013, 05:24:27 PM
Yeah, K_G, I have to agree with the others. That's wasn't really fair (or legal) to do. Even if you were dissatisfied.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 27, 2013, 05:26:15 PM
There is one restaurant that I get take out from that, I swear, always leaves something out of my order. You'd think I'd remember to check the bag before leaving by now, but I keep forgetting to do it at this place. It's infuriating!

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 27, 2013, 05:29:51 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.

Nothing wrong with it. It's just a matter of attitude/motivation. Does a waiter provide good service because they want to provide good service; or does a waiter provide good service because they want a larger tip? (I realize it can be both - I'm just looking at extremes here). In non-tipping countries I can be pretty certain that it's the former; in tipping countries I'd have more reason to think it's the latter. Nothing wrong with the latter - after all, I'm just a paying customer - but it certainly doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either, which it might do in non-tipping countries.

I realize there are servers everywhere who work hard to provide good service because they take pride in their job, and not to make more money, which is why I specifically stated that it was the cynical side of me that thought that way.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 27, 2013, 05:35:55 PM
Quote
cynical side of me that thought that way.

I think your cynical side is in overdrive. While there are some isolated cases where I might be made to feel like "just a potential tip," that's the exception. I find that servers, at least where I am, seem genuine in their service and make me feel like they're doing their job well because they want to.

If you've been to parts of the US where you've felt like just a tip, I'm saddened. And can assure you that you found the rotten apples in our bunch.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MrsJWine on April 27, 2013, 05:42:09 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.

Nothing wrong with it. It's just a matter of attitude/motivation. Does a waiter provide good service because they want to provide good service; or does a waiter provide good service because they want a larger tip? (I realize it can be both - I'm just looking at extremes here). In non-tipping countries I can be pretty certain that it's the former; in tipping countries I'd have more reason to think it's the latter. Nothing wrong with the latter - after all, I'm just a paying customer - but it certainly doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either, which it might do in non-tipping countries.

I realize there are servers everywhere who work hard to provide good service because they take pride in their job, and not to make more money, which is why I specifically stated that it was the cynical side of me that thought that way.

What's wrong with it being both? People work hard because they like their jobs. People work hard because they want promotions. It's not an either/or. Sometimes keeping your eye on the promotion/better tip keeps you from screaming naked out of your workplace because everyone and everything is horrible that day. Sometimes loving your job is what keeps you from being completely beat down by a failure to get promoted or earn good tips. Neither is a bad motivation. Just because good tip/bad tip is a more immediate reward than a promotion is doesn't make it any less noble to work hard with that goal in mind.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 27, 2013, 05:44:39 PM
Quote
cynical side of me that thought that way.

I think your cynical side is in overdrive. While there are some isolated cases where I might be made to feel like "just a potential tip," that's the exception. I find that servers, at least where I am, seem genuine in their service and make me feel like they're doing their job well because they want to.

If you've been to parts of the US where you've felt like just a tip, I'm saddened. And can assure you that you found the rotten apples in our bunch.

The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

Yes, I'm against the practice of tipping for everything, can you tell? ;)

I would never dream of taking this out on the waiters though. I know what's expected of me, and I'll act accordingly. I don't want to be the one to give Danish tourists a bad rep when abroad :)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 27, 2013, 05:45:47 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.

Nothing wrong with it. It's just a matter of attitude/motivation. Does a waiter provide good service because they want to provide good service; or does a waiter provide good service because they want a larger tip? (I realize it can be both - I'm just looking at extremes here). In non-tipping countries I can be pretty certain that it's the former; in tipping countries I'd have more reason to think it's the latter. Nothing wrong with the latter - after all, I'm just a paying customer - but it certainly doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either, which it might do in non-tipping countries.

I realize there are servers everywhere who work hard to provide good service because they take pride in their job, and not to make more money, which is why I specifically stated that it was the cynical side of me that thought that way.

What's wrong with it being both? People work hard because they like their jobs. People work hard because they want promotions. It's not an either/or. Sometimes keeping your eye on the promotion/better tip keeps you from screaming naked out of your workplace because everyone and everything is horrible that day. Sometimes loving your job is what keeps you from being completely beat down by a failure to get promoted or earn good tips. Neither is a bad motivation. Just because good tip/bad tip is a more immediate reward than a promotion is doesn't make it any less noble to work hard with that goal in mind.

Not sure I understand your question? I specifically said there was nothing wrong with it - twice even :)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Iris on April 27, 2013, 06:34:19 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

Just wanted to pop in and say I live in a non-tipping country and the quality of servers is just fine, thank you. I dislike the notion that people only do a good job when they have a direct, immediate benefit from that or punishment for failing to do so. Many people do a good job because they take pride in themselves and their work, because they know they are a valued employee, because they are not stressed out wondering if this rude customer is going to pay them their rightful wage or not, because they value the training and experience they are gaining since they will use it to work at a better restaurant for higher pay, and I'm sure there are other reasons I have missed. I mean, I am a salaried employee, am not interested in promotion at this time, and am also very difficult to fire, but I still work very hard to do a good job simply because, like most people, I get a sense of personal achievement and pride from a job well done for a fair day's pay.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 27, 2013, 06:43:27 PM
You know, it is interesting because while people proclaim that the service would be just as good I also read a lot of posts that mention American waitstaff seeming more solicitous in comparison to other countries - almost as if some people are unsettled by it.  Maybe the quality isn't less but it does sound like it is different to some degree or another. 
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 27, 2013, 06:49:50 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

Just wanted to pop in and say I live in a non-tipping country and the quality of servers is just fine, thank you. I dislike the notion that people only do a good job when they have a direct, immediate benefit from that or punishment for failing to do so. Many people do a good job because they take pride in themselves and their work, because they know they are a valued employee, because they are not stressed out wondering if this rude customer is going to pay them their rightful wage or not, because they value the training and experience they are gaining since they will use it to work at a better restaurant for higher pay, and I'm sure there are other reasons I have missed. I mean, I am a salaried employee, am not interested in promotion at this time, and am also very difficult to fire, but I still work very hard to do a good job simply because, like most people, I get a sense of personal achievement and pride from a job well done for a fair day's pay.

I don't think you understand. In the US "minimum wage" is not necessarily a living wage. In many states it is not at all a living wage and in others its only just barely there, but still certainly a level of poverty.

This article sums it up nicely (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/15/five-things-you-didn-t-know-about-the-minimum-wage.html)
Quote
An annual salary for a person making $7.25 hour is $15,080, well above the U.S. government’s poverty threshold for a single person, which was $11,945 in 2012. But if you have two kids, the poverty threshold jumps to $23,283, which means that you’d need two adults working full time—which would likely require expensive daily child care—to stay out of poverty.

Note with this ^ full time means 40 hours a week, and does not have to include any paid time off (not sick days, not vacation) and as of now, also no health insurance. Also please remember many place sin the US have no or very limited public transportation, and weather that makes biking unrealistic several months of the year.

Minimum wages jobs are not attractive to the type of employees that will hustle for customer service for the sake of it. Waiting tables is difficult work - its physical, it requires a certain level of customer service skills, it requires a friendly disposition, good memory, etc. In order to attract good employees to a position like that, there needs to be a financial incentive (either in immediate wages or the possibility of advancement).

There certainly are country's that have great waitstaff and are non-tipping cultures. But AFAIK their wages are such that a person can actually finance a reasonable life.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: rose red on April 27, 2013, 07:01:16 PM
On my first trip to Canada, a Canadian coworker told me if I want better service, to let the wait staff catch a glimpse of American money.  I didn't think much of it and certainly didn't waive money around for anyone to catch a glimpse of :o.  But we tipped what we normally tip since the service was perfectly fine.  When we went back the next day for breakfast, the same waiter went all out for us, and I do mean all out and not just extra friendly.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 27, 2013, 07:33:38 PM
On my first trip to Canada, a Canadian coworker told me if I want better service, to let the wait staff catch a glimpse of American money.  I didn't think much of it and certainly didn't waive money around for anyone to catch a glimpse of :o.  But we tipped what we normally tip since the service was perfectly fine.  When we went back the next day for breakfast, the same waiter went all out for us, and I do mean all out and not just extra friendly.

Depending on where you were in Canada, that might be because they weren't used to the level of tip you left.  Unless you were in Toronto or Vancouver or another major centre, 15% on the before tax bill is fairly standard.  So if you tipped more like 20%, as seems to be the norm from what's been posted, they would have been quite happy with you.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Iris on April 27, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
They are stealing.  They are stealing someone's service and their other tips.  This is the way it is, servers work for tips.

That cocltail you ordered?  Gets tipped out to the bartender whether you tipped or not.  Hosts and hostesses?  They get 3% tipped out.  So, because you ate there, the server has to tip out others on your behalf.  When you don't tip, that money comes out of his other tips.

That is isn't how it is across the board but is in most large restaurants and chains.

And no, servers do not want to work for minumum wage.

If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

Also you might be surprised to know how much a server focuses on a particular customer because that is where his tip is coming from.

So, what give him the right t confront someone?  He is working for them!    If the customer is not going to tip they should e able to give a reason for it that is based on the server's performance, like "we waited half an hour for our apps" or "you never brought us our sides."

Unless someone comes from the moon, they should be aware of how the system works.  Doesn't really matter of one agrees with it or not, it is the reality.

Just because you are not compelled by law to do something does not rescind your obligation to it.  If you don't like the system, then don't dine out in the US.

Just wanted to pop in and say I live in a non-tipping country and the quality of servers is just fine, thank you. I dislike the notion that people only do a good job when they have a direct, immediate benefit from that or punishment for failing to do so. Many people do a good job because they take pride in themselves and their work, because they know they are a valued employee, because they are not stressed out wondering if this rude customer is going to pay them their rightful wage or not, because they value the training and experience they are gaining since they will use it to work at a better restaurant for higher pay, and I'm sure there are other reasons I have missed. I mean, I am a salaried employee, am not interested in promotion at this time, and am also very difficult to fire, but I still work very hard to do a good job simply because, like most people, I get a sense of personal achievement and pride from a job well done for a fair day's pay.

I don't think you understand. In the US "minimum wage" is not necessarily a living wage. In many states it is not at all a living wage and in others its only just barely there, but still certainly a level of poverty.

This article sums it up nicely (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/15/five-things-you-didn-t-know-about-the-minimum-wage.html)
Quote
An annual salary for a person making $7.25 hour is $15,080, well above the U.S. government’s poverty threshold for a single person, which was $11,945 in 2012. But if you have two kids, the poverty threshold jumps to $23,283, which means that you’d need two adults working full time—which would likely require expensive daily child care—to stay out of poverty.

Note with this ^ full time means 40 hours a week, and does not have to include any paid time off (not sick days, not vacation) and as of now, also no health insurance. Also please remember many place sin the US have no or very limited public transportation, and weather that makes biking unrealistic several months of the year.

Minimum wages jobs are not attractive to the type of employees that will hustle for customer service for the sake of it. Waiting tables is difficult work - its physical, it requires a certain level of customer service skills, it requires a friendly disposition, good memory, etc. In order to attract good employees to a position like that, there needs to be a financial incentive (either in immediate wages or the possibility of advancement).

There certainly are country's that have great waitstaff and are non-tipping cultures. But AFAIK their wages are such that a person can actually finance a reasonable life.

Oh, I see. But now my brain hurts and I can't think of anything else to say that wouldn't be getting political so I'll just have a rest...
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 27, 2013, 07:44:36 PM
Maybe they should tie their survey to a tipping schedule:

If you would rate this visit a 1 - as in you'd never come back and never recommend us, tip 0%
If you would rate this visit a 2 - as in you eventually got fed but it was a struggle, tip 5%
If you would rate this visit a 3 - you weren't completely impressed but the food was OK and you'll think about coming back, tip 10%
If you would rate this visit a 4 - Everything was just fine and you'll be back, tip 15%
If you would rate this visit a 5 - The server anticipated my needs and must have read my mind, tip 20% or more

 ;D
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 27, 2013, 07:49:14 PM
Quote
cynical side of me that thought that way.

I think your cynical side is in overdrive. While there are some isolated cases where I might be made to feel like "just a potential tip," that's the exception. I find that servers, at least where I am, seem genuine in their service and make me feel like they're doing their job well because they want to.

If you've been to parts of the US where you've felt like just a tip, I'm saddened. And can assure you that you found the rotten apples in our bunch.

The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

Yes, I'm against the practice of tipping for everything, can you tell? ;)

I would never dream of taking this out on the waiters though. I know what's expected of me, and I'll act accordingly. I don't want to be the one to give Danish tourists a bad rep when abroad :)

But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

You're not a "tip" you're a customer.  Regardless of how, someone is being paid to provide you service.  They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 07:55:56 PM
MariaE said:
Quote
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

This, and also the idea of tipping workers to supplement their low pay because the owners/management wants to pocket more profit instead of raising wages doesn’t sit well with me.  (I do go along with tipping for good service; I already said that.)  But I know a lot of people who render a lot of services and are way underpaid.  There are also people who work on cimmission only - they render services, but no sale/no commision.

Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.

A tip is not payment for services rendered.  It's a reward for a pleasant dining experience and good service, and (with me) it goes up or down, depending on the quality of service.

btw, in some countries, such as Japan, tipping can actually be considered an insult both to the server ("You need this more than I do.") AND the owner of the establishment ("You don't pay your staff decently.")

Yes, I know........this is the USA,
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 27, 2013, 08:07:11 PM
most wait staff do far more than that
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Julian on April 27, 2013, 08:11:45 PM
I live in a non-tipping country.  I've traveled to the USA, and made sure I knew enough about the tipping culture there that I didn't end up the 'cheap tourist that doesn't tip' before I went.  In fact, I probably over-tipped on occasion.  I actually got asked once if I wanted change from a tip to a cocktail waitress. 

Firstly, I couldn't fault the level of service there - everyone was polite, attentive and overall excellent at their jobs.

I've eaten at the same 'level' of restaurant here in Australia and New Zealand though, and really, there is no significant difference in the level of service.  So it didn't feel to me as if I was 'just a tip'.  A certain level of service is to be expected.  If the food and service is satisfactory, I'll usually 'round up' the bill anyway, or for more casual places, put the change in the tip jar if they have one.  (Yes, they're becoming fairly ubiquitous now.)

If the service or food isn't up to par (here in Aus), I won't tip, and I'll vote with my feet and not return.  In the US, I'd give a lower tip and still not return. 

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 08:19:51 PM
most wait staff do far more than that

Then those wait staff should be paid fairly and tipped well.

There are various factors which go into tipping, and not all are function of waiters/servers:

1)How the food matched with your order
2)Whether the food was hot and fresh from the kitchen (or not)
3)How attentive the server was to your needs
4)How quickly your empty dishes were taken away
5)How quickly it took to get your check and have your payment processed,
6)Whether the server's demeanor was courteous and professional.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MrsJWine on April 27, 2013, 08:22:03 PM
I think comparing tipping culture between countries can be interesting, but it becomes frustrating to have to defend it. It's like comparing a motorcycle to a minivan. Each functions well as it is intended (although some people might not like one or the other). They don't have to be the same in order to each be good. As a former server, I MUCH preferred working at a lower than minimum wage job for tips than I did when I worked for minimum wage plus tips. That doesn't mean a server in the UK who does not work for tips is doing a terrible job without that immediate incentive.

MariaE, I know you said there was nothing wrong with working for tips, but at the same time, it's kind of insulting to say that servers view customers as "just a tip." So I think we were talking past each other. I was pointing out that, at its very basic level, every job is a paycheck. It doesn't mean that the people you work for or with are dollars signs walking around in clothes. The only difference between a regular job and a tipping job is that the reward is more immediate. I loved waiting tables. I loved helping people enjoy their meals. I also loved making money. But no one was ever just a tip.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 27, 2013, 08:26:01 PM
MariaE said:
Quote
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

This, and also the idea of tipping workers to supplement their low pay because the owners/management wants to pocket more profit instead of raising wages doesn’t sit well with me.  (I do go along with tipping for good service; I already said that.)

But I know a lot of people who are way underpaid.  Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.

There seems to be this tendency to villify business owners for being profitable.  They are not pocketing anything.  More profit?  What more profit?  There isn't this huge profit margin in the industry.

Their prices are set to be competitive with other restaurants and they pay staff the same way-  comeptitively.  Restaurants are the canary in the coalmine of the economy.  When times get tight, people curtail their eating out.

If you want them to pay what you think is a living wage, then prepare for the meal prices to rise.  You'll be paying even more because the tax you pay will then be figured on those higher prices too.

Servers are able to earn a living wage now.   Changing the system would harm them the most.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 27, 2013, 08:35:16 PM
...bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay...

When I waitressed my job was a heck of a lot more then just that!

First off I had to get there before my shift started to do things like fold napkins and set tables (which requires knowing how to properly set a table) and pre-ice the pitchers, make sure there were enough butters, the sugar bowls were filled with an assortment of sweetner packets, and there were adequate creamer things filled with milk.

I then had a 6 hour shift during which I got 1 break which was my only opportunity to sit. I needed to smile that whole time. I had to work as a team with other servers, the chef, the dishwashers and the manager to make sure we timed things appropriately, and didn't get under each other's feet.

I had to know what was in, and be able to describe in appropriate terms, every item we served. I could not just say "mixed vegetables" were the side, I had to know it was a "medley of carrots, yellow squash, green beans and bell pepper slightly sauteed with garlic", I had to know the type of mushroom, the type of bread, the herbs used, if eggs or dairy or a non-vegetarian broth was used, all the sauces and garnishes, etc.

I was never supposed to let any one's water glass get below an inch of water and I had to watch the other beverages and offer refills appropriately. I had to carry an entire table's worth of entrees on one big tray and serve them without tipping anything, bumping anyone and knowing who got what at each table (no "selling an entree" which is to say I could not get to the table with the meals and say "ok who got the chicken?" which meant loading my tray appropriately in the kitchen so I could unload in order) and serve from the right and clear from the left. I had to check on my tables and be accessible to be called over to attend to needs. And remember I have to smile through all this.

And it just keeps going with a million more ways it was more then just handing someone a menu writing an order, bringing it and saying "everything ok?" I worked on average 2-3 shifts a week (I was in college) and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only wore my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 08:43:55 PM
Quote
and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only work my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.

Interesting - I was watching something a week or so ago saying the job where shoes are worn out most frequently is waiter/waitress.

I'm not saying it's easy work. 

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 27, 2013, 08:46:46 PM
Quote
and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only work my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.

Interesting - I was watching something a week or so ago saying the job where shoes are worn out most frequently is waiter/waitress.

I'm not saying it's easy work.

Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.


The problem is that you really did seem to be saying that with this quote.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: WillyNilly on April 27, 2013, 08:48:05 PM
Quote
and I would literally wear through - I'm serious they just disappeared disintegrated - a pair of shoe insoles a month from the walking back & forth so much (I only work my work shoes at work). I enjoyed the job but make no mistake it was hard work.

Interesting - I was watching something a week or so ago saying the job where shoes are worn out most frequently is waiter/waitress.

I'm not saying it's easy work. 


It certainly reads like you are saying its not particularly hard work:

Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 27, 2013, 08:57:58 PM
Sharnita, WillyNilly - Okay, point taken.  Didn't realize it created a problem.

I know someone who is a server and works extremely hard.  I 'm sure that applies to a lot of wait staff.  I also know someone who does a lot less than what I mentioned.  Also, I didn't think it was necessary to mention every single thing a waiter/server might do.  The point was that there are a lot of people who are underpaid, work very hard, and don't get tips.  I thought I made that clear.  Apparently not.  Hope it is now.  That's the best I can do.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 27, 2013, 09:15:52 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.

Nothing wrong with it. It's just a matter of attitude/motivation. Does a waiter provide good service because they want to provide good service; or does a waiter provide good service because they want a larger tip? (I realize it can be both - I'm just looking at extremes here). In non-tipping countries I can be pretty certain that it's the former; in tipping countries I'd have more reason to think it's the latter. Nothing wrong with the latter - after all, I'm just a paying customer - but it certainly doesn't give me the warm fuzzies either, which it might do in non-tipping countries.

I realize there are servers everywhere who work hard to provide good service because they take pride in their job, and not to make more money, which is why I specifically stated that it was the cynical side of me that thought that way.

I still don't get why it's considered cynical to  emphasize the money. The mortgage doesn't get paid by pride. Pride doesn't put food on the table. Money is a reliable measuring stick as well as a tool in commerce.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Girly on April 27, 2013, 10:34:19 PM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

One of my clients has a restaurant, and they pay minimum wage to all servers. The servers also keep 100% of their tips - no busboy, bartender or hostess, servers do all their own work.

The service is just like it is at every other restaurant I've been to.

However, I largely agree with the rest of your post.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 27, 2013, 10:58:06 PM
Quote
I think comparing tipping culture between countries can be interesting, but it becomes frustrating to have to defend it. It's like comparing a motorcycle to a minivan. Each functions well as it is intended (although some people might not like one or the other). They don't have to be the same in order to each be good.

I think this is an excellent comment. The two ways of service really aren't able to be compared as some are trying to. There are too many factors going into it to do that. And I think attributing a lack of caring about their job to either the tipped or non-tipped server is insulting to both sides. Because the differences in why they're tipped or not is different.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Library Dragon on April 27, 2013, 11:01:50 PM
MariaE said:
Quote
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

This, and also the idea of tipping workers to supplement their low pay because the owners/management wants to pocket more profit instead of raising wages doesn’t sit well with me.  (I do go along with tipping for good service; I already said that.)

But I know a lot of people who are way underpaid.  Interesting that clients/customer aren’t expected to “tip” all these people, and their jobs are often a lot harder than bringing a menu, tray of food, a drink, and asking if everything is okay.

There seems to be this tendency to villify business owners for being profitable.  They are not pocketing anything.  More profit?  What more profit?  There isn't this huge profit margin in the industry.

Their prices are set to be competitive with other restaurants and they pay staff the same way-  comeptitively.  Restaurants are the canary in the coalmine of the economy.  When times get tight, people curtail their eating out.


If you want them to pay what you think is a living wage, then prepare for the meal prices to rise.  You'll be paying even more because the tax you pay will then be figured on those higher prices too.

Servers are able to earn a living wage now.   Changing the system would harm them the most.

Yes!  The profit margin is small and the costs high.  Staff is scheduled for Friday night and perishables are purchased, but it pours rain and customers opt to stay home.  The owner takes the hit. 

In the US the trend in places like Olive Garden and Carrabas is to give you another full main pasta dish to take home.  They have to get the customers in the door to cover the basic bills.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Amara on April 27, 2013, 11:06:37 PM
I have a couple of stories, the first one on myself.

I was in San Diego with a friend for a three-day pleasure trip. We were doing some sightseeing, shopping and eating out. One night we went to a well-known bayside fish restaurant for dinner. It was lovely and delicious. She gave me cash and I paid the bill and tipped well. At least I thought I did.

We were on the stairs going down to the parking lot when the door suddenly opened behind us and the waitress rushed out. She cried out something like "You didn't pay your bill." I remember standing there stunned for a few moments while that penetrated my brain. Then I sputtered "I didn't???" while reaching for my wallet.

Turns out I didn't. What I must have done was take my friend's cash and put it into my purse without realizing it. I was humiliated that the waitress thought we were attempting to steal from her. I was so embarrassed I couldn't look my friend in the face as we headed back to the hotel. It was just one of those brain drain moments that unfortunately makes one look really, really bad.

The second story took place several years earlier. I used to live in Hawaii and was a runner, a member of the marathon community. Every Sunday morning after our long runs a group of us would head to a local restaurant for breakfast. The group varied from about five or six to a dozen or so. And because the two primary people, the hub as it were, were two slightly older men who were well known to the manager and staff the group was seated in a closed-off area and given special attention.

One Sunday the waitress working our table was not particularly good. I can't remember if she had us before but the service was fairly poor. I can't remember who started the conversation, but I talked to one of the two primary guys who that morning had picked up that tab about tipping the waitress. I guess I wanted to know if he had left a quarter or nickel. He told me something I have never, ever forgotten and have utilized myself ever since then. He said when the service is bad or only fair he still tips the same as if it had been superb. But he also calls the waitress over and as he hands it to her he tells her that her service was not good and why.

When I asked him why he did this he said that anyone can have a bad day. He believed that by doing it his way he ensured that her day would be better, that it was a classy way to handle it, and that he would be remembered the next time he went back. He felt strongly about doing it this way, and I was so impressed with his way of handling it that it became my practice as well. (Fortunately, it has been a very rare occasion when I have needed to use it.)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: DottyG on April 27, 2013, 11:13:06 PM
Amara, that's a good lesson. And a compassionate and effective one. I'm going to remember that. Thanks.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: perpetua on April 28, 2013, 12:35:27 AM
I think comparing tipping culture between countries can be interesting, but it becomes frustrating to have to defend it. It's like comparing a motorcycle to a minivan. Each functions well as it is intended (although some people might not like one or the other). They don't have to be the same in order to each be good. As a former server, I MUCH preferred working at a lower than minimum wage job for tips than I did when I worked for minimum wage plus tips. That doesn't mean a server in the UK who does not work for tips is doing a terrible job without that immediate incentive.

That works both ways, though. I live in the UK where tipping is an over-and-above thing and usually 10% at the most, and I resent the implication that our waiters aren't as good as American waiters who work for tips, seen in several posts on this thread. Like you said, just because our tip isn't the waiter's payment, that doesn't mean they're not as good at their job or that our dining out experience here is inferior.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 28, 2013, 01:16:50 AM
MariaE, I know you said there was nothing wrong with working for tips, but at the same time, it's kind of insulting to say that servers view customers as "just a tip." So I think we were talking past each other. I was pointing out that, at its very basic level, every job is a paycheck. It doesn't mean that the people you work for or with are dollars signs walking around in clothes. The only difference between a regular job and a tipping job is that the reward is more immediate. I loved waiting tables. I loved helping people enjoy their meals. I also loved making money. But no one was ever just a tip.

Ah, my apologies. Yes, we are talking past each other. I thought I'd addressed that in my comment to DottyG. It's definitely not the servers that make me feel like "just a tip" (well... with the exception of one, but there are bad eggs everywhere), it's the policy itself. Attitudes like this one:

But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

I still don't get why it's considered cynical to emphasize the money. The mortgage doesn't get paid by pride. Pride doesn't put food on the table. Money is a reliable measuring stick as well as a tool in commerce.
Fair enough. Guess it's just a difference in thought-process then :) I, personally, am being cynical when I think that way. I would rather think that somebody goes the extra mile because of pride in their job than because they hope it'll earn them extra money. But neither is rude, neither is offensive, neither is wrong.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 28, 2013, 01:26:30 AM
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 28, 2013, 01:30:45 AM
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

Then why not just add it to the price of the meal and prevent confusion? Then it actually would be stealing (as in the kind you can call the cops for) not to pay it.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 28, 2013, 02:02:51 AM
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

Then why not just add it to the price of the meal and prevent confusion? Then it actually would be stealing (as in the kind you can call the cops for) not to pay it.

Because for the most part there isn't confusion. It's a custom that works quite well for a great many people for a multitude of reasons.

I assume that there are things where you live that are confusing to people who are from other parts of the world.  Are you going to change them to suit those people?

It's kind of condescending for you assume that our customs should be changed just because you don't particularly like dealing with them.
 
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: sparksals on April 28, 2013, 02:38:02 AM
On my first trip to Canada, a Canadian coworker told me if I want better service, to let the wait staff catch a glimpse of American money.  I didn't think much of it and certainly didn't waive money around for anyone to catch a glimpse of :o.  But we tipped what we normally tip since the service was perfectly fine.  When we went back the next day for breakfast, the same waiter went all out for us, and I do mean all out and not just extra friendly.

Depending on where you were in Canada, that might be because they weren't used to the level of tip you left.  Unless you were in Toronto or Vancouver or another major centre, 15% on the before tax bill is fairly standard.  So if you tipped more like 20%, as seems to be the norm from what's been posted, they would have been quite happy with you.

I took it to mean the servers gave extra attentiveness bc the customer tipped in US dollars, which for  a long time was worth more than the Loonie.   It was like getting a 50% tip with the exchange rate.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 28, 2013, 04:24:12 AM
Considering the huge number of threads we have about tipping on this site - many of which are created by people in the US - it would seem like it's not just confusing to foreigners.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 28, 2013, 04:42:45 AM
Considering the huge number of threads we have about tipping on this site - many of which are created by people in the US - it would seem like it's not just confusing to foreigners.

And yet, millions of people manage to successfully navigate it just fine every day.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 28, 2013, 04:45:31 AM
Audrey, you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this, so let's just leave it at that and move on.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on April 28, 2013, 05:10:57 AM
Audrey, you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this, so let's just leave it at that and move on.

It's not a matter of seeing eye to eye.  You don't even live here so why would think that its OK for you to so boldly state that we should do this or that.

It's one thing if you don't understand how another country's custom works or why.  But, it's over the line to pretty much insist that they should do them differently or really even to offer suggestions on how.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: perpetua on April 28, 2013, 05:12:58 AM
Audrey, you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this, so let's just leave it at that and move on.

It's not a matter of seeing eye to eye.  You don't even live here so why would think that its OK for you to so boldly state that we should do this or that.

It's one thing if you don't understand how another country's custom works or why.  But, it's over the line to pretty much insist that they should do them differently or really even to offer suggestions on how.

Well, it seems to be OK for the Americans on this forum to suggest that several UK customs are rude. I don't see the difference.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: CakeEater on April 28, 2013, 06:27:10 AM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.

To me, it seems that it's not just hard work that earns more tips, but also friendliness that counts towards the total. So it feels like I'm paying for someone to be nice to me.

In our non-tipping culture, I look at the prices, know how much I'm going to be paying at the end, and then relax, not having to analyse the waiter's performance and provide a monetary ranking at the end of the meal.

Unfortunately, tipping is being suggested more and more here. I don't like it, and don't tip as a matter of principle.

I would tip in the US - don't worry!
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 07:15:45 AM
Fair enough. Guess it's just a difference in thought-process then :) I, personally, am being cynical when I think that way. I would rather think that somebody goes the extra mile because of pride in their job than because they hope it'll earn them extra money. But neither is rude, neither is offensive, neither is wrong.
[/quote]

Ours is a capitalist society in which money is usually the main motivator, and this is tied in with pride in one's work. Someone who does not take pride in her work doesn't get the promotion, tip or pay raise she wants.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 28, 2013, 07:17:13 AM
To me, it seems that it's not just hard work that earns more tips, but also friendliness that counts towards the total. So it feels like I'm paying for someone to be nice to me.

In our non-tipping culture, I look at the prices, know how much I'm going to be paying at the end, and then relax, not having to analyse the waiter's performance and provide a monetary ranking at the end of the meal.

Unfortunately, tipping is being suggested more and more here. I don't like it, and don't tip as a matter of principle.

I would tip in the US - don't worry!

That's it, exactly! Especially the bolded. Thanks, CakeEater :) I'll just give a giant POD to your entire post.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 07:27:21 AM
If they were paid minimum wage, the quality of servers would go down.

I have heard this argument several times and it's always puzzled me, because it simply isn't my experience. I've been to many restaurants in tipping and non-tipping countries both, and have seen no real difference in the level of service I receive in the different countries. But tipping affect the cynical side of me. If I receive good service in a non-tipping country I think, "Wow, excellent service. Cool!" If I receive good service in a tipping country I think, "Hmmm... Angling for a better tip there, aren't you?"

It's not the norm to tip where I live, and that's definitely what I prefer (restaurants aside, I felt terribly condesending tipping the bell boy, which I know is completely irrational), but "when in Rome...", so I never stifle people of a tip when abroad - and I err on the side of caution which has resulted in a UK waiter coming up to ask me if I really meant to tip him that much ;)

What's wrong with working hard to make more money?

Yeah, I wondered that too.

To me, it seems that it's not just hard work that earns more tips, but also friendliness that counts towards the total. So it feels like I'm paying for someone to be nice to me.

In our non-tipping culture, I look at the prices, know how much I'm going to be paying at the end, and then relax, not having to analyse the waiter's performance and provide a monetary ranking at the end of the meal.

Unfortunately, tipping is being suggested more and more here. I don't like it, and don't tip as a matter of principle.

I would tip in the US - don't worry!

I don't know anyone whose experience in a restaurant is diminished by trying to analyze a server's job or calculating a tip during the meal if the server is doing a good job. In fact, a smooth experience usually indicates the server is doing a good job, and will be rewarded accordingly.

A dinner that is interrupted by the wrong food being delivered, the late delivery of the right food, the lack of refilling a drink, etc., however, usually means that the customer doesn't get to relax much, and probably tips accordingly.

Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 07:36:00 AM
No one is paid to be nice to someone in the restaurant situation. Servers are tipped according to the job they perform. A server can be nice to a customer, but if he doesn't do a good job, he won't be tipped as much as he would have if he had done a good job.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 07:45:01 AM
Audrey, you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this, so let's just leave it at that and move on.

It's not a matter of seeing eye to eye.  You don't even live here so why would think that its OK for you to so boldly state that we should do this or that.

It's one thing if you don't understand how another country's custom works or why.  But, it's over the line to pretty much insist that they should do them differently or really even to offer suggestions on how.

Well, it seems to be OK for the Americans on this forum to suggest that several UK customs are rude. I don't see the difference.

Which customs are those?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 28, 2013, 08:17:12 AM
As far as paying people to be nice to you - of course you do, whether it is through tipping or some other system.  I mean, look at disney World, friendliness is a huge part of the experience they sell.  They train their staff to be friendy because that's what brings people back and gets people in the mood to open their wallets.  Hotel reviews ask if the staff was friendly. Given a choice between a store with friendly staff and a store with staff that is rather standoffish, most people will take their money to the friendly store. There are all sorts of ways that we pay non-tipped people to be friendly/nice to us.  Maybe we don't stop and consider that we are doing it but the businesses sure do.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Baxter on April 28, 2013, 08:22:40 AM


Well, it seems to be OK for the Americans on this forum to suggest that several UK customs are rude. I don't see the difference.

Which customs are those?

Don't mean to derail the thread, but a few that come to mind are;
Hosting ones own birthday birthday party
Having friends attending the party pay their own way
Having a wedding breakfast for one set of guests and then having a larger party in the evening for different guests
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Baxter on April 28, 2013, 08:32:13 AM
One other thing I have always wanted to know about tipping.  Do the waitstaff want diners to be in & out of the restaurant quickly so that they have more of a chance to get tips or is it alright to spend an evening dining at the restaurant?
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Venus193 on April 28, 2013, 08:37:41 AM
I resent the idea that this is the subject of a joke.

I've lived in New York City my entire life and -- considering this is probably the restaurant capital of the world -- have never witnessed anything like this.

As to switching to higher wages without tips, I would definitely pity the generation of waitstaff who would have to make this adjustment.

As I said in another thread, I always tip in cash.  I don't trust restaurant managers to pay the tips specifically to the waitperson when the tip is put on a credit card.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 08:49:45 AM


Well, it seems to be OK for the Americans on this forum to suggest that several UK customs are rude. I don't see the difference.

Which customs are those?

Don't mean to derail the thread, but a few that come to mind are;
Hosting ones own birthday birthday party
Having friends attending the party pay their own way
Having a wedding breakfast for one set of guests and then having a larger party i
In the evening for different guests

With the possible exception of the first one, those would be rude if done in the US, but they're not in the UK. (I have no problem with throwing a party for yourself as long as you pick up the entire tab and do not expect presents.)
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 08:53:27 AM
One other thing I have always wanted to know about tipping.  Do the waitstaff want diners to be in & out of the restaurant quickly so that they have more of a chance to get tips or is it alright to spend an evening dining at the restaurant?

I suppose it depends on the type of restaurant. In a place like Applebee's, I can see the staff wanting a quicker turn-around than at a place such as Canlis in Seattle.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Venus193 on April 28, 2013, 09:00:18 AM
Some places have undisclosed rules about how long patrons are allotted during the busiest hours.  That is for corporate's benefit, not the waitstaff's, although they are probably expected to uphold it.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 28, 2013, 09:03:53 AM
One other thing I have always wanted to know about tipping.  Do the waitstaff want diners to be in & out of the restaurant quickly so that they have more of a chance to get tips or is it alright to spend an evening dining at the restaurant?

I suppose it depends on the type of restaurant. In a place like Applebee's, I can see the staff wanting a quicker turn-around than at a place such as Canlis in Seattle.

Of course, the customers also tend to expect a fairly quick in and out in many of those restaurants.  They would tip less if it took too long from seating to taking the orders, taking the orders to first course - right on to taking care of the check.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 09:09:57 AM
One other thing I have always wanted to know about tipping.  Do the waitstaff want diners to be in & out of the restaurant quickly so that they have more of a chance to get tips or is it alright to spend an evening dining at the restaurant?

I suppose it depends on the type of restaurant. In a place like Applebee's, I can see the staff wanting a quicker turn-around than at a place such as Canlis in Seattle.

Of course, the customers also tend to expect a fairly quick in and out in many of those restaurants.  They would tip less if it took too long from seating to taking the orders, taking the orders to first course - right on to taking care of the check.

Yep. A lot of it is about the expectations of all parties.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 28, 2013, 09:30:56 AM
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

No. 
MariaE, a tip/gratuity is optional.  There are many people who choose not to go along with it.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 28, 2013, 09:34:42 AM
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

No. 
MariaE, a tip/gratuity is optional.  There are many people who choose not to go along with it.

In terms of etiquette and the US the psrt that is optional is how much you tip, whether you come back, whether you go out to eat in the first place.  Of course, everything is optional in some ways.  Saying "please" and "thank you" is certainly optional, as is covering your mouth when you sneeze.  That being said, if you don't exercise those options when society expects it the people around you will reasonably decid that you are an ill mannered, self-serving lout. But I guess that is your option, too.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 28, 2013, 09:50:29 AM
[
But, its not a reward!  It's a payment for services rendered.    Servers in countries where tipping is not the custom are also paid for their service, its just hidden in the cost of the food instead of over it.

If tip is "payment for services rendered" then add it to the price of the meal! Or call it "sales tax" or "service tax" or whatever. That would at least imply that it's mandatory. "Tip" (and even more "gratuity") implies "optional" or "voluntary" to me, which obviously isn't the case.

Now you know better.

No. 
MariaE, a tip/gratuity is optional.  There are many people who choose not to go along with it.

In terms of etiquette and the US the psrt that is optional is how much you tip, whether you come back, whether you go out to eat in the first place.  Of course, everything is optional in some ways.  Saying "please" and "thank you" is certainly optional, as is covering your mouth when you sneeze.  That being said, if you don't exercise those options when society expects it the people around you will reasonably decid that you are an ill mannered, self-serving lout. But I guess that is your option, too.

Sharnita, I don't think calling me an ill-mannered, self-serving lout (directly or indirectly) was necessary or polite.  I'm not (what you said) and while it's your option to name-call and make a nasty insinuation, I think that's counterproductive.

I never said I don't tip - in fact I've said the opposite more than enough times.

All that aside, (speaking to MariaE) tipping in a restaurant is still optional.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 28, 2013, 09:57:57 AM
If you are looking for a private conversation, the message option is the best way to go.  And while tipping is indeed, legally optional, this isn't a legal board.  It is pretty clearly established that in the US tipping is part of the social contract that you accept when going out to eat.  If I were in a part of the world where the social contract of entering a home included the expectation that I remove my shoes and, knowing this I agreed to enter a home but refused to remove my shoes, I would be ill mannered.  I might be excercissing an option open but not all options are polite in all places.  So yes, if you enter an establishment knowing the expectation includes tipping for a service, accept that service and then refuse to tip because it is an option open to you then I think you have been ill mannered.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 28, 2013, 10:05:02 AM
Not looking for a private conversation.
Didn't say anything about legalities.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: #borecore on April 28, 2013, 10:55:10 AM
To get the thread away from the back-and-forth ...
Someone in my hometown was killed (run over) after she went out to pursue someone who skipped on a check. The chain she worked for made a policy decision to not allow people to chase after a check (or a tip, I presume) any longer for the safety of their employees.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: reflection5 on April 28, 2013, 11:06:08 AM
How awful.
Skipping out on a check is stealing/shoplifting.  Leaving without tipping (or leaving after paying what the restaurant deems an insufficient tip) is another matter.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Sharnita on April 28, 2013, 11:07:58 AM
I believe there was a grocery store where an employee tried to stop shoplifters who made it to the parking lot, only to be run down by the thieves. I think that in general ot is a wise policy for any business not to chase people out to the parking lot for payment but it probanly requires workers to fight their human nature and sense of justice.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Twik on April 28, 2013, 11:15:05 AM
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

Yes, I'm against the practice of tipping for everything, can you tell? ;)

I would never dream of taking this out on the waiters though. I know what's expected of me, and I'll act accordingly. I don't want to be the one to give Danish tourists a bad rep when abroad :)

Well, I've never attended any commercial establishment where I expected to be "more" than a customer. Yes, some people are friendly and caring, but at the end of the day, they're doing their job, not serving me because they love me.

If there were no tipping, you would still be "just a customer" to those staff. Most of them would treat me well primarily because that is their job, and they would likely lose it if they didn't. And I wouldn't be looking for my validation as a lovable person by how sales staff of any sort treat me.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: MariaE on April 28, 2013, 11:54:07 AM
The expectation of a tip makes me feel like "just a tip". Attitudes like "if you don't tip a waiter, you're stealing from them" makes me feel like "just a tip". The minute tipping goes from being a reward for good/great service to being an expectation even at average/expected service, I feel like "just a tip".

Yes, I'm against the practice of tipping for everything, can you tell? ;)

I would never dream of taking this out on the waiters though. I know what's expected of me, and I'll act accordingly. I don't want to be the one to give Danish tourists a bad rep when abroad :)

Well, I've never attended any commercial establishment where I expected to be "more" than a customer. Yes, some people are friendly and caring, but at the end of the day, they're doing their job, not serving me because they love me.

If there were no tipping, you would still be "just a customer" to those staff. Most of them would treat me well primarily because that is their job, and they would likely lose it if they didn't. And I wouldn't be looking for my validation as a lovable person by how sales staff of any sort treat me.

You misquoted me. I don't have a problem with being "just a customer". I have a problem with being "just a tip". CakeEater explained it well in her post.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: baritone108 on April 28, 2013, 12:02:47 PM
if the employee is tipped in cash, it is not counted in their pay and thus is not included in wages for income tax purposes

This may also be a state-by-state things but when I was waitressing you had to declare your tips (both cash and credit card) to the restaurant on a weekly basis and they were included in your taxes.  If you didn't declare them  the restaurant was supposed to assume a specific percentage, just under what the standard tip was at the time.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: Corvid on April 28, 2013, 12:40:46 PM
Frankly, I do not really care about my server's motivation, whether I am just a tip or whether they're taking pride in their job performance.  I only care about the end result - good service.
Title: Re: do waiters chase you if you don't tip in america?
Post by: LeveeWoman on April 28, 2013, 12:51:42 PM
Frankly, I do not really care about my server's motivation, whether I am just a tip or whether they're taking pride in their job performance.  I only care about the end result - good service.

Bingo!