Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: Aoife on May 05, 2013, 04:13:13 PM

Title: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Aoife on May 05, 2013, 04:13:13 PM
Hi,

Today I cycled over to see a friend who's just got a new bike but was too nervous to go out by herself on it - we'd arranged to go for an easy cycle near her house on cycle paths.

It's about 30 minutes to her house from mine, I'm currently pregnant and I'm pretty sure my baby thinks my bladder is a trampoline ::) When I arrived she opened the door, but held it half open and sort of stuck her head around it to talk to me. I handed over some stuff I'd brought for her and asked if I could use her loo, saying it was ok if I couldn't (I guessed from the way she was holding the door that she wasn't going to ask me in), I'd go up to the coffee shop a few streets away.

She said sorry, no, the house was a tip, so I went to the coffee shop and came back. We went for our cycle and it was all good, then I went home again afterwards.

It's probably me being unreasonable but I was a bit put out, though obviously I didn't let on to her that I was. If a friend asks to use my bathroom, I can't imagine saying no, I would feel rude if I did. (Though I have on occasion said 'yes, just let me run up and check it first' then done a quick removal of laundry on landing / emptied the bathroom bin).

It was still bugging me a little so I thought I'd ask options here as to any etiquette involved. Typing it all out has done wonders though and I'm no longer bugged  :) It may have been more of a friendship issue than an etiquette issue.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: NyaChan on May 05, 2013, 04:17:49 PM
Well, I have a feeling that her place may have looked like mine did a couple of days ago where I would have been embarrassed had I found a burglar had come through the place and seen it.  If I knew mine was the only bathroom available, I would have just apologized profusely and let a friend run through.  If I knew there was another bathroom close by, I'd probably do what she did  - especially if the person asking had said it was okay to say no as you did in your situation.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Deetee on May 05, 2013, 04:29:25 PM
Unless I was actually storing a dismembered body in the bathtub I can't imagine not allowing a friend to use my bathroom.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Outdoor Girl on May 05, 2013, 04:37:23 PM
I have refused to let someone use my bathroom but that's because I had a stomach virus and had been running from both ends all night.  But that's about the only time I'd refuse to allow someone to use it.

I'm not the world's best housekeeper so if it was in one of its less clean states, I would warn friend about the condition but let them in to use it.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: delabela on May 05, 2013, 04:39:24 PM
Even if my house were in a terrible state (and it has been before) I would not refuse someone using the bathroom unless there was actually something wrong with it or dangerous.  Like if I was waiting on a plumber or something.

OP, have you ever been in your friend's house?  Maybe she doesn't let people in her house at all. 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: TootsNYC on May 05, 2013, 04:43:05 PM
Unless I was actually storing a dismembered body in the bathtub I can't imagine not allowing a friend to use my bathroom.

Yeah, especially since you were doing her a favor!
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Amara on May 05, 2013, 04:43:44 PM
I would not refuse regardless of condition because ... well, because it seems rude to let concern or embarrassment over any messiness take precedence over the need to relieve oneself.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Aoife on May 05, 2013, 04:53:05 PM
Deetee - that made me laugh, I really hope it wasn't that!

Delabela - I have been in her house before, many times.

I really got the impression she wasn't comfortable with me on the doorstep, that was why I'd mentioned the coffeeshop. She's seen my house when it's been a mess which is perhaps why it bothered me so much.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: TootsNYC on May 05, 2013, 04:57:10 PM
I'm actually a little surprised that you even offered to go to the nearby coffee shop. Her body language must have been really extreme!

I don't know what etiquette would say, officially. I just know I would *never* do that to someone that I actually knew. Turn them away from using my potty, I mean.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Bashful on May 05, 2013, 05:04:53 PM
Maybe she had a problem with her whole house, not just the bathroom. This looks like a movie scene, where your friend has a "special someone" in her apartment and doesn't want you to find out!
Probably this isn't rude (you can always refuse a request, I guess), but seems really weird to me!
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: citadelle on May 05, 2013, 05:13:12 PM
Reminds me if this thread:

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=124462.0

Circumstances were a bit different, but consensus seemed to be that one has the right to politely decline.

I myself would definitely say yes, but there are clearly other opinions!
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: TootsNYC on May 05, 2013, 05:23:17 PM
Reminds me if this thread:

http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=124462.0

Circumstances were a bit different, but consensus seemed to be that one has the right to politely decline.

I myself would definitely say yes, but there are clearly other opinions!

I think the circumstances are VERY different. In that one, the OP didn't refuse her the use of the bathroom. If the aunt had taken off her snowy boots and walked across the freshly washed floor in stocking feet, she'd have been welcome.

Also, the aunt wasn't invited over--in THIS thread, the OP was requested to come to her friend's house. (Apparently "to" but not "into.")
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Isisnin on May 05, 2013, 05:31:08 PM
The friend was rude. Very rude. She knew ahead of time you were coming over and knew you were bicycling over. So she should have cleaned up and invited you in the moment you arrived and offered you a drink.

If someone drops by unexpectedly, the homeowner needn't invite them in or allow them to use the bathroom. Though I like the OP's noting that the homeowner can say "yes, just let me run up and check it first' then done a quick removal of laundry on landing / emptied the bathroom bin".  Never thought of that before.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: SiotehCat on May 05, 2013, 05:45:18 PM
I think your friend was fine to refuse. I probably would have also refused.

I don't like people in my house. I can deal with it if I have plenty of notice, but not in a case like the OP's.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Sharnita on May 05, 2013, 05:47:12 PM
I disagree that she was rude. Her "messy" might be way beyond OP's "messy". Her messy might take days to clean. If she heard an apology for OP's standard of "messy" it might make her even less willing to have OP see a whole different level of "messy".
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: CakeBeret on May 05, 2013, 05:48:51 PM
There have been times when my house has been embarrassingly messy, and I've tried to keep people out of it by meeting them on the front porch. And once when that happened, my mom asked to use the bathroom. I was mortified, but I let her in and apologized for the mess.

I have to say, I'd be shocked and kind of bothered if a friend refused to let me use her bathroom. Especially if I was pregnant AND doing something nice for her.

I think it's one of those things that's not rude, but can cause hurt feelings and discomfort.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: sammycat on May 05, 2013, 05:52:41 PM
The friend was rude. Very rude. She knew ahead of time you were coming over and knew you were bicycling over. So she should have cleaned up and invited you in the moment you arrived and offered you a drink.

If someone drops by unexpectedly, the homeowner needn't invite them in or allow them to use the bathroom. Though I like the OP's noting that the homeowner can say "yes, just let me run up and check it first' then done a quick removal of laundry on landing / emptied the bathroom bin".  Never thought of that before.

I agree.  The friend knew OP was coming; in fact OP was doing friend a favour. The very least she could do is let her use the toilet.

My house can be a pigsty at times too, but I'd never refuse a friend the use of my toilet.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: citadelle on May 05, 2013, 05:57:31 PM
The friend was rude. Very rude. She knew ahead of time you were coming over and knew you were bicycling over. So she should have cleaned up and invited you in the moment you arrived and offered you a drink.

If someone drops by unexpectedly, the homeowner needn't invite them in or allow them to use the bathroom. Though I like the OP's noting that the homeowner can say "yes, just let me run up and check it first' then done a quick removal of laundry on landing / emptied the bathroom bin".  Never thought of that before.

I agree.  The friend knew OP was coming; in fact OP was doing friend a favour. The very least she could do is let her use the toilet.

My house can be a pigsty at times too, but I'd never refuse a friend the use of my toilet.

Was it really a favor? Or just friends going on a bike ride? I did not get the sense in the OP that this was something she didn't really want to do or put her out.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Sharnita on May 05, 2013, 06:02:07 PM
OP, have you been inside her home before? If so, when was the last time? Do you know if many other friends are allowed inside.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: sammycat on May 05, 2013, 06:13:52 PM
The friend was rude. Very rude. She knew ahead of time you were coming over and knew you were bicycling over. So she should have cleaned up and invited you in the moment you arrived and offered you a drink.

If someone drops by unexpectedly, the homeowner needn't invite them in or allow them to use the bathroom. Though I like the OP's noting that the homeowner can say "yes, just let me run up and check it first' then done a quick removal of laundry on landing / emptied the bathroom bin".  Never thought of that before.

I agree.  The friend knew OP was coming; in fact OP was doing friend a favour. The very least she could do is let her use the toilet.

My house can be a pigsty at times too, but I'd never refuse a friend the use of my toilet.

Was it really a favor? Or just friends going on a bike ride? I did not get the sense in the OP that this was something she didn't really want to do or put her out.

Today I cycled over to see a friend who's just got a new bike but was too nervous to go out by herself on it

It reads like a favour to me, rather than just 2 friends deciding spontaneously to go for a ride. 

Even it wasn't a favour, I still think it was rude of friend to refuse the use of her toilet. It's not as if OP simply turned up on her doorstep unannounced (and even then I'd still let a friend use my toilet). Friend knew OP was coming; in those circumstances I'd assume the chances are high that the visitor would enter the house.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: flowersintheattic on May 05, 2013, 06:16:19 PM
How many bathrooms does the friend's house have? My first thought was that she was having some sort of problem with the toilet - a clog or something else that was preventing use of the bathroom. If that's the case, there may have been some level of odor or mess that made her not want to open the door.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: TootsNYC on May 05, 2013, 06:18:19 PM
How many bathrooms does the friend's house have? My first thought was that she was having some sort of problem with the toilet - a clog or something else that was preventing use of the bathroom. If that's the case, there may have been some level of odor or mess that made her not want to open the door.

I would have expected her to say that the bathroom was out of order.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Rusty on May 05, 2013, 06:21:49 PM
I think your friend was rude.   You were not unexpected, you are pregnant and anyone who has ever been pregnant knows using the toilet becomes a priority at times.

Are you sure she was not hiding a lover in there somewhere!

Everyone has a messy house at times and a simple request to you to "don't mind the mess" should have been sufficient.

How close a "friend" is this?
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Marcia on May 05, 2013, 06:25:41 PM
I would not refuse regardless of condition because ... well, because it seems rude to let concern or embarrassment over any messiness take precedence over the need to relieve oneself.

I completely agree with this.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Kaypeep on May 05, 2013, 06:35:37 PM
My mom is a hoarder.  SHe never let anyone inside, not even her own brother who once asked to use the restroom before driving home (he was dropping her off before driving home.)  I bet your friend is a hoarder.  Is it rude of her to not let you use the restroom.  I say no, but it's somewhat unreasonable.  But nothing is going to change it, so now you know not to ask and prepare yourself for next time, if there is a next time.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Aoife on May 05, 2013, 06:41:53 PM
I hope this covers all the questions asked -

I've been in her house lots of times, it has one bathroom. The last time was a while ago though, maybe three weeks to a month. She lives by herself so I doubt she'd let unknown men in, but she lets people in generally. It would be lovely if she had a secret lover, I hope so! We've known each other for about 10 years, I met her though my husband, they're friends from uni.

She did know I was coming, it was arranged earlier in the week. As for it being a favour, she said she was nervous of going out alone so I offered to cycle with her and she accepted. Cycling is something I enjoy and it was a lovely day, so I wasn't put out at all.

Yikes, the aunt in that thread was horrifically rude, I can understand refusing entry to someone who treated you like that.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Docslady21 on May 05, 2013, 06:52:42 PM
Hi,

Today I cycled over to see a friend who's just got a new bike but was too nervous to go out by herself on it - we'd arranged to go for an easy cycle near her house on cycle paths.

It's about 30 minutes to her house from mine, I'm currently pregnant and I'm pretty sure my baby thinks my bladder is a trampoline ::) When I arrived she opened the door, but held it half open and sort of stuck her head around it to talk to me. I handed over some stuff I'd brought for her and asked if I could use her loo, saying it was ok if I couldn't (I guessed from the way she was holding the door that she wasn't going to ask me in), I'd go up to the coffee shop a few streets away.

She said sorry, no, the house was a tip, so I went to the coffee shop and came back. We went for our cycle and it was all good, then I went home again afterwards.

It's probably me being unreasonable but I was a bit put out, though obviously I didn't let on to her that I was. If a friend asks to use my bathroom, I can't imagine saying no, I would feel rude if I did. (Though I have on occasion said 'yes, just let me run up and check it first' then done a quick removal of laundry on landing / emptied the bathroom bin).

It was still bugging me a little so I thought I'd ask options here as to any etiquette involved. Typing it all out has done wonders though and I'm no longer bugged  :) It may have been more of a friendship issue than an etiquette issue.

Once, my entire family had the stomach flu over 4 days. A friend came by and asked to use the bathroom. I lied and said it was broken. It was that bad. I'd give her a break. You just never have any idea what would mortify a friend so much that they would refuse a friendly courtesy. What if the catbox was dirty, she had smelly dishes, or had some other issue? Being in the horrible house club, I ALWAYS give a pass. =)
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Jones on May 05, 2013, 08:01:34 PM
Once, my sister and her family were over and the hallway bathroom was in use when Young Nephew announced he had to go RIGHT AWAY. I briefly hesitated because the only way through to the main bath is through the master bedroom, which was a mess due to tossing things in there to clean the living area. Yeah that's how I prepare for company  :P. Sister offered to take the boy out to my flower bed when she saw the look on my face, at which I was half horrified and assured her that use of the master bath was fine so long as she didn't care about the bedroom mess. She didn't. Young Nephew didn't care either.

Most people understand a little mess. I do have to wonder about someone who denies a pregnant woman, who is doing said someone a favor, and was absolutely expected at that day and time, use of the facilities.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Sharnita on May 05, 2013, 08:03:18 PM
My mom is a hoarder.  SHe never let anyone inside, not even her own brother who once asked to use the restroom before driving home (he was dropping her off before driving home.)  I bet your friend is a hoarder.  Is it rude of her to not let you use the restroom.  I say no, but it's somewhat unreasonable.  But nothing is going to change it, so now you know not to ask and prepare yourself for next time, if there is a next time.

I was thinking that could be her problem as well.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Bluenomi on May 05, 2013, 08:08:53 PM
I would never tell a pregnant woman she couldn't use the bathroom, that could ended badly for all involved!
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Hmmmmm on May 05, 2013, 08:31:18 PM
If a friend is denying me use if their bathroom when I have come to their home at their request, I am going to assume they are planning a huge surprise for me or that their bathroom is so filthy I wouldn't want to use it.  Since you didn't return to a surprise party I'm guessing the coffee shop bathroom was in much better condition. 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Sharnita on May 05, 2013, 08:51:49 PM
If a friend is denying me use if their bathroom when I have come to their home at their request, I am going to assume they are planning a huge surprise for me or that their bathroom is so filthy I wouldn't want to use it.  Since you didn't return to a surprise party I'm guessing the coffee shop bathroom was in much better condition.

lol, good point.  What if OP had entered and the place reeally was bad enough to make her think twice about using the restroom?  How would you then gracefully indicate you had decided to go to a public resroom instead? Maybe it was for the best after all.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: NyaChan on May 05, 2013, 09:47:01 PM
I think the fact that you pretty much offered to go somewhere else changes things though.  If you had indicated that it was in any way an urgent need, then yes, I think a friend should have let you in.  But once you told her that it was fine for her to say no, is it fair to then hold it against her for taking you at your word?
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: gramma dishes on May 05, 2013, 09:52:33 PM
But the friend KNEW the OP was coming over to her house.  It was a planned event.  OP didn't just 'drop by'.

The friend KNEW the OP was pregnant and should have realized that there was at least some possibility that she might really genuinely need to use the bathroom at some time or another either before or after their joint bike ride.

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.

If there was a plumbing problem, that's different of course.   But then the friend should have said so.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Sophia on May 05, 2013, 10:17:44 PM
I agree with the dismembered body parts post.  Or maybe some weird or shocking activities going on. 

Unless the friend wasn't really a friend.  If it were a distant associate, my mess embarrassment might cause me to say no.  But, probably not. 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: TeamBhakta on May 05, 2013, 10:23:30 PM
Maybe she had a *~gentleman caller~*  >:D To quote Blanche Devereaux's daughter "Well, you sure are in a good mood for a Sunday morning. Oh.....um, Sarah and I can wait in the kitchen if you need a few minutes to say goodbye to Uncle Whoever."
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: LifeOnPluto on May 05, 2013, 10:37:10 PM
But the friend KNEW the OP was coming over to her house.  It was a planned event.  OP didn't just 'drop by'.

The friend KNEW the OP was pregnant and should have realized that there was at least some possibility that she might really genuinely need to use the bathroom at some time or another either before or after their joint bike ride.

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.

If there was a plumbing problem, that's different of course.   But then the friend should have said so.

I agree with this. I think it was unreasonable of the OP's friend not to let her use the bathroom.

OP, I think you were extremely kind and gracious in giving her an "out" (ie offering to use the coffee shop's bathroom).
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: sparksals on May 05, 2013, 11:13:12 PM
I think your friend was fine to refuse. I probably would have also refused.

I don't like people in my house. I can deal with it if I have plenty of notice, but not in a case like the OP's.


The OP didn't drop in. She was doing the friend a favour! 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: johelenc1 on May 05, 2013, 11:33:40 PM
Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me. 

I'm pretty tolerant of quirks and not easily offended at all, but barring some issue like hoarding (clearly not the case since the OP had been in the home before), but this is pretty inexcusable to me.  Using the bathroom is a pretty basic function, like needing water if dehydrated.  To be denied such a thing by a "friend" would be a hill to die on for me.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: MariaE on May 06, 2013, 12:01:35 AM
Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me. 

I'm pretty tolerant of quirks and not easily offended at all, but barring some issue like hoarding (clearly not the case since the OP had been in the home before), but this is pretty inexcusable to me.  Using the bathroom is a pretty basic function, like needing water if dehydrated.  To be denied such a thing by a "friend" would be a hill to die on for me.

My thought exactly. The friend was ridiculously rude. Denying a friend access to a toilet is just not done.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: StarFaerie on May 06, 2013, 02:04:10 AM

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.


For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Aoife on May 06, 2013, 02:55:15 AM
OP again

I think the fact that you pretty much offered to go somewhere else changes things though.  If you had indicated that it was in any way an urgent need, then yes, I think a friend should have let you in.  But once you told her that it was fine for her to say no, is it fair to then hold it against her for taking you at your word?

I'm not holding it against her, I was a bit miffed but I've got over it. To be honest, when I offered to go to the coffee shop, I expected her to say 'oh no, come in but ignore the mess' but she obviously wasn't comfortable doing that for whatever reason. I'm going to put it down as just one of those things and in future make sure I stop in somewhere on the way before I arrive at her house.

Edited because of bad grammar.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: sparksals on May 06, 2013, 04:47:33 AM
Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me. 

I'm pretty tolerant of quirks and not easily offended at all, but barring some issue like hoarding (clearly not the case since the OP had been in the home before), but this is pretty inexcusable to me.  Using the bathroom is a pretty basic function, like needing water if dehydrated.  To be denied such a thing by a "friend" would be a hill to die on for me.

It would be for me too. 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: sparksals on May 06, 2013, 05:00:49 AM

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.


For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

Your post makes me wonder if anyone DID refuse authorities entry to their home.   I would think it would put them on the radar no matter how innocent they are. 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on May 06, 2013, 05:40:44 AM
Unless I was actually storing a dismembered body in the bathtub I can't imagine not allowing a friend to use my bathroom.


Haha, as a friend I would Offer to help you dispose of the evidence aka body  8)
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Virg on May 06, 2013, 05:47:43 AM
johelenc wrote:

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances.  I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable.  I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned.  I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all.  To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it.  So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: TootsNYC on May 06, 2013, 07:13:41 AM

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.


For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

One thing to factor in, if what you're worried about is what they'll think of you:

They will be FAR more likely to overlook the mess in your house than they will your lack of hospitality.

I know I would! I understand mess; heck, my home looks crappy most of the time. And, your mess is not any rudeness to ME. And so there's nothing to "forgive" or "overlook."

But I would have a hard time forgiving the rudeness of making me go somewhere else to find a potty. Because that is a lack of basic hospitality to ME.

So if you're worried what people think of you: Don't be afraid to be messy in front of them. But DO be hesitant to be unhospitable to them.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: MariaE on May 06, 2013, 07:21:25 AM
johelenc wrote:

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances.  I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable.  I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned.  I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all.  To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it.  So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg

I have complete respect for a situation such as that, but in a friendship I'd expect an explanation rather than just a straight "No". Had the friend answered "I'm so sorry. Son has been sick, and the bathroom really isn't suitable for anybody right now" I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

I know etiquette tells us we don't have to JADE - but sometimes in a relationship it's necessary.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: GrammarNerd on May 06, 2013, 07:42:01 AM

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.


For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

I had someone ask once if her kid could use the bathroom.  My house was a MESS!  I'm just not a neat person so it's a struggle for me and can get out of hand quickly.  And like StarFaerie, you have to go through most of the house to get to the bathroom.  It's not a matter of just moving a few things into a closet.  But anyway, this was during trick or treating.  The kid/mom in question were friends of our next door neighbors, and were out trick or treating with them.  Why they asked me instead of going another 50 feet to their house, I don't know**, but since I knew there was another option, I didn't really worry too much about saying no.  Plus, neighbor was extremely 'tidy' and I knew she could be judgmental of others (gossipy) if there was something that was 'different', so I could really see her telling others 'the dogs were barking and there was stuff all over and the kids must use her living room as a playroom!  And she probably hadn't dusted in a couple of weeks....'  So I took the lesser of two evils, shall we say.

**Given the close proximity to neighbor's house, the cynical part of me always wondered if they just wanted a reason to come in and see the house for some reason, or so they'd have something to gossip about.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Hmmmmm on May 06, 2013, 07:59:20 AM

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.


For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

I had someone ask once if her kid could use the bathroom.  My house was a MESS!  I'm just not a neat person so it's a struggle for me and can get out of hand quickly.  And like StarFaerie, you have to go through most of the house to get to the bathroom.  It's not a matter of just moving a few things into a closet.  But anyway, this was during trick or treating.  The kid/mom in question were friends of our next door neighbors, and were out trick or treating with them.  Why they asked me instead of going another 50 feet to their house, I don't know**, but since I knew there was another option, I didn't really worry too much about saying no.  Plus, neighbor was extremely 'tidy' and I knew she could be judgmental of others (gossipy) if there was something that was 'different', so I could really see her telling others 'the dogs were barking and there was stuff all over and the kids must use her living room as a playroom!  And she probably hadn't dusted in a couple of weeks....'  So I took the lesser of two evils, shall we say.

**Given the close proximity to neighbor's house, the cynical part of me always wondered if they just wanted a reason to come in and see the house for some reason, or so they'd have something to gossip about.
But you hadn't invited these people to your home for a favor.

And to Virge's post, if what happened in that bathroom is what I think, I doubt your next daily activity was going to be going out for a bike ride.

At a minimum, I think the friend should have at least said "I'm so sorry, but we are having plumbing issues today. I'm afraid the coffee shop is the only option."
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Sharnita on May 06, 2013, 08:04:28 AM
But based on the OP, it sounds like she did explain "the house was a tip". It.just sounds like that is not an acceptable explanation or not detailed enough. Is a person required to actually confess hoarding or some of the other specific conditions? It sounds,like she gave an explanation that was general enough to maintain some dignoty.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: MeowMixer on May 06, 2013, 08:15:08 AM
While it wouldn't be a friendship ender for me it would be a very long time before I did a favour for her again.



I know etiquette tells us we don't have to JADE - but sometimes in a relationship it's necessary.

^ I agree with that ^

Seems weird and hurtful to say no so bluntly to a friend that you've previously allowed into your home, she's doing you a favour, and she's pregnant (bike rides alone are bladder jarring, add to that a little one who's an amatuer tap dancer), without follow up that seems very cold.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Isisnin on May 06, 2013, 08:52:36 AM

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.


For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

(snip....)

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

I had someone ask once if her kid could use the bathroom.  My house was a MESS!  I'm just not a neat person so it's a struggle for me and can get out of hand quickly. 

(snip...)

The kid/mom in question were friends of our next door  neighbors, and were out trick or treating with them.  Why they asked me instead of going another 50 feet to their house, I don't know**, but since I knew there was another option, I didn't really worry too much about saying no.  Plus, neighbor was extremely 'tidy' and I knew she could be judgmental of others (gossipy) if there was something that was 'different', so I could really see her telling others 'the dogs were barking and there was stuff all over and the kids must use her living room as a playroom!  And she probably hadn't dusted in a couple of weeks....'  So I took the lesser of two evils, shall we say.

**Given the close proximity to neighbor's house, the cynical part of me always wondered if they just wanted a reason to come in and see the house for some reason, or so they'd have something to gossip about.

I am very messy person too - one could even call me extremely messy.  I too thought about not letting the authorities in to search (I live in Boston, so it was not a casual thought). Plus, as I age I move slower, particularly when my bad knee kicks in.  Which is why in this case, in which the OP and her friend made these plans days in advance, those days would have been very important to me and needed by me to clean the place up.  But if life had not cooperated and the place was still unacceptable for guests, I would have done what I have done in the past - called the guest and tell her I'd meet her somewhere.  The nearby coffee shop would have been perfect.  The OP could have freshened up and got a refreshment.

about neighbor's asking to use other neighbor's bathrooms. We had one like that.  She would often ask neighbors if her young daughter could use their bathroom.  When we figured out that that was the method to get into the house to look around, we started saying no.  The daughter apparently never had an accident (I was friendly with them and we talked a lot. Either the mother or daughter (or a neighbor) would have mentioned an accident). 

Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: NyaChan on May 06, 2013, 09:06:51 AM
While it wouldn't be a friendship ender for me it would be a very long time before I did a favour for her again.



I know etiquette tells us we don't have to JADE - but sometimes in a relationship it's necessary.

^ I agree with that ^

Seems weird and hurtful to say no so bluntly to a friend that you've previously allowed into your home, she's doing you a favour, and she's pregnant (bike rides alone are bladder jarring, add to that a little one who's an amatuer tap dancer), without follow up that seems very cold.

She didn't say no bluntly though -

But based on the OP, it sounds like she did explain "the house was a tip". It.just sounds like that is not an acceptable explanation or not detailed enough. Is a person required to actually confess hoarding or some of the other specific conditions? It sounds,like she gave an explanation that was general enough to maintain some dignoty.

If the OP was desperately in need of a restroom that would be one thing, but she pretty much told the friend that it wasn't an emergency, that she was fine with waiting until she could stop at the coffee shop.  The friend, explaining that her apartment was messy, took her up on that.  I also don't see the outing as her inviting the OP to her house - they met at that common point to go somewhere else.  It doesn't seem that OP arrived with any expectation of spending time inside with her friend in the first place.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: MeowMixer on May 06, 2013, 09:17:55 AM
My apologies NyaChan, I read that as being tipped off by the body language, I didn't realize it was the friend who said the house was a tip. I have never heard that expression before.

Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: rose red on May 06, 2013, 09:21:43 AM
While I agree it's odd and would be upset if I really had to go (in which case, I wouldn't have offered to go to the coffee shop from the get-go), I would not end a friendship over this one strange out-of-character thing.  I'm thinking of all my friends, close and casual, and if this happened to me, I would wonder what is really going on.  There seems to be more than just messiness.

If things like this happen again and again, then yes, I would evaluate what type of relationship I'm willing to have with this person.  But not after one weird incident (if I cut people off the first time something "off" happens, I'd have no friends).
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: NyaChan on May 06, 2013, 09:22:38 AM
My apologies NyaChan, I read that as being tipped off by the body language, I didn't realize it was the friend who said the house was a tip. I have never heard that expression before.

No need to apologize  :)  Actually, I'm now wondering if perhaps I misunderstood the meaning lol
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Kariachi on May 06, 2013, 09:27:47 AM
Unless I was actually storing a dismembered body in the bathtub I can't imagine not allowing a friend to use my bathroom.

Well, I've got two bathrooms, each with a tub...

Okay, if it's the downstairs tub they get sent upstairs with a "plumbing issues" excuse, if it's the upstairs tub we're good, and if it's the upstairs tub and the downstairs bath is unavailable, well thankfully we've got sliding glass doors on that tub that you can't see through, just say the washer broke and you're washing unmentionables.

If I only had the one bathroom and the possibility of company, I'd probably hold off on my dismembering until I could do it cleanly and without being a poor hostess. Store the body in a private closet or under the sink or something.

I just can't see refusing a friend the bathroom if I could possibly avoid it.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Zilla on May 06, 2013, 09:40:54 AM
I have a friend that I meet only out and about.  Honestly, I have seen her home and I wouldn't eat there or use her bathroom.  It could have been one of those places only the OP's friend knows this about herself.  My friend on the other hand just thought her place was a tad messy. 


I would instead respect my friend's need for privacy and trust that she would be truly embarrassed or put out by my using the bathroom.  I wouldn't be offended and instead appreciate her honesty. 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Yvaine on May 06, 2013, 09:43:42 AM
My apologies NyaChan, I read that as being tipped off by the body language, I didn't realize it was the friend who said the house was a tip. I have never heard that expression before.

No need to apologize  :)  Actually, I'm now wondering if perhaps I misunderstood the meaning lol

No, I think you're right--its a "tip" as in a dumpster.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: magicdomino on May 06, 2013, 09:49:26 AM
If I know someone is coming over, the first thing I do is clean the bathroom, on the assumption that it will be needed.  The dining table will probably be buried, the kitchen counters almost as bad, and we can hope that the floors will have been vacuumed.  Forget dusting.  But, darn it, the toilet will be clean.   :)

If this is a person whom I have visited before, I'd assume that there was some kind of embarrassing disaster.  I'd kind of hope it could be told as a funny story later, if only to satify my curiousity, but wouldn't worry about it otherwise.  If this was a new situation, or if it becomes a habit, I'd have to weigh the person's virtues versus the trouble of planning to find a public restroom.

Regarding having the police or firemen in my messy house:  been there, done that, wondered if I could even tell if anything was stolen.   :-[  Someone broke into my house, and the police went from room to room making sure the burglar wasn't there.  This was soon after I inherited the house, and it was still packed full of my mother's Stuff.  Yes, it was embarrassing to have strangers wandering around the Pit, but better to be embarrassed than scared or injured by a hostile stranger.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Aoife on May 06, 2013, 09:50:09 AM
Oh again

Sorry, I didn't realise it wasn't commonly used. NyaChan is right, a tip means messy. It's another name for a rubbish dump- as in the rubbish is tipped there by the bin lorry.

That sounds bad, but it's just an expression. When I came back from the coffee shop the front door was open and the hall and stairs were clear so I'm not worried about her getting swamped by bags of rubbish and needing help or anything.

But yeah, MeowMixer, I was tipped off by her body language when she came to the door too, which is why I offered to to go to the coffee shop.

I have used her bathroom before, it was just an issue this time.

I really posted just for points of view, I've never came across this scenario before. The different opinions on the thread make fascinating reading, there's lots of points that wouldn't have occurred to me.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: camlan on May 06, 2013, 09:51:18 AM
There are people who are hoarders who can clean up parts of their house when they are expecting company. Perhaps this woman is a hoarder and just didn't have time to clean up for this particular visit, or didn't think the OP would need to come in and therefore didn't clean.

There are people who aren't hoarders, but who are as messy as hoarders--their houses would look just like a hoarder's house to someone who watches the hoarding TV shows. (The difference is that they *can* get rid of things when they get motivated; hoarders struggle with letting go.) Again, they need time to clean the public areas of their houses before they feel comfortable letting anyone in.

Or there was someone else in the house who didn't want to be seen, or who the owner of the house didn't want the OP to see.

There are all sorts of reasons why the OP might not have been allowed in the house.

If the friendship is otherwise a good one, I would not let this blip affect things. I wouldn't forget about it, but I would hold off on judgement. If similar things start to happen repeatedly, then I would start to question the friendship.

But it could be that this woman just had a very bad day, or very bad week, and things fell apart and her house was a total disaster area. I wouldn't want to end a friendship over that. Heaven knows, I've had a total disaster area of a house more than once, myself.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: perpetua on May 06, 2013, 09:54:04 AM
Barring the facilities not working or some kind of disaster, I think there's something cruel about denying a friend in need the use of them and I'd be questioning a friendship with anyone who did this to me. And if you know a friend is coming over, how difficult is it to quickly clean the bathroom - or at least the lav - beforehand if untidyness/mess is an embarrasment (and if it's that embarrassing, why not do it anyway and keep it clean in the first place?)

The only other explanation I can think of is that the friend is some kind of germ-phobic; again, I'd be questioning a friendship with someone like that too.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Docslady21 on May 06, 2013, 09:57:50 AM
johelenc wrote:

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances.  I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable.  I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned.  I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all.  To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it. So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg

The bolded is exactly my thought. I could list 100 things that are gross that could excuse the friend. She could have had any number of accidents that she did not have time to clean up. I see people considering ending a friendship or cooling the relationship and it seems so extreme over a simple declined bathroom. Yes, OP was pregnant and I can totally see being slightly miffed at first just because of the inconvenience. But I try to always think the best of my friends and I would have given friend a bit of grace and assumed it must be pretty horrible if she would send a pregnant friend away rather than let her in.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Deetee on May 06, 2013, 10:22:21 AM
Unless I was actually storing a dismembered body in the bathtub I can't imagine not allowing a friend to use my bathroom.


Haha, as a friend I would Offer to help you dispose of the evidence aka body  8)
A good friend indeed! Remind me of the saying

"A good frind will bail you out of jail. A real good friend will be sitting beside you already saying "well, that was fun"


Uh.. and I should specify that I am not in the habit of storing bodies in my bathtub.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: sparksals on May 06, 2013, 11:11:43 AM

How long does it take to straighten up a bathroom at least well enough that you wouldn't be embarrassed to let your pregnant friend use it?  It's not like she's the Queen of England or Martha Stewart or the photographer from House Beautiful or something.


For me? Well, the downstairs toilet is at the back of the house, so first, depending on the day and how I've been travelling, I'd have to clean up the hall way, and the lounge and then the dining room, and the kitchen, and the laundry including all the clothes on the floor there, but my toilet is cleanish, so say 3-4 days to get it to a point that I wouldn't be worried they'd injure themselves. I am a very messy person and sometimes my house is worse than others depending on my workload, my son and whether I have enough energy to clean (I have an illness that makes me extremely tired so that going to work usually uses all the energy I have in a day)

As an example, while watching the boston bombers being hunted they announced on TV that the police would be going house to house searching for him inside and out. I realised that if that ever happened to me I would demand to see their warrant and then refuse them entry, not because I believe in my civil rights or anything, but because I would prefer the chance of a homicidal maniac over the embarrassment of having the police enter my home when it is at it's worst. At least the homicidal maniac isn't expecting it to be clean and I'm not inviting him in.

So absolutely I would refuse entry to a friend if there was any other option for them. And I have refused entry to my mother when she asked to use the toilet once as she is the most judgmental person I know. If there was no other option and it was a bad mess day, I'd probably let them in but may never contact them again due to my embarrassment.

One thing to factor in, if what you're worried about is what they'll think of you:

They will be FAR more likely to overlook the mess in your house than they will your lack of hospitality.

I know I would! I understand mess; heck, my home looks crappy most of the time. And, your mess is not any rudeness to ME. And so there's nothing to "forgive" or "overlook."

But I would have a hard time forgiving the rudeness of making me go somewhere else to find a potty. Because that is a lack of basic hospitality to ME.

So if you're worried what people think of you: Don't be afraid to be messy in front of them. But DO be hesitant to be unhospitable to them.

This sums it up exactly for me!
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: AngelicGamer on May 06, 2013, 11:13:50 AM
Unless I was actually storing a dismembered body in the bathtub I can't imagine not allowing a friend to use my bathroom.


Haha, as a friend I would Offer to help you dispose of the evidence aka body  8)
A good friend indeed! Remind me of the saying

"A good frind will bail you out of jail. A real good friend will be sitting beside you already saying "well, that was fun"


Uh.. and I should specify that I am not in the habit of storing bodies in my bathtub.

I've heard the following: Friends help you move.  Good friends help you move bodies.

;D
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: lurkerwisp on May 06, 2013, 11:22:37 AM
johelenc wrote:

"Had a friend of mine, a friend mind you - not a random stranger, refused to let me use their bathroom when I asked, ESPECIALLY if I was pregnant...I would ride my little bicycle over to the coffee shop - and keep right on riding.  That would be the end of the friendship for me."

This sort of thing saddens me, because the situation leads me to consider that such a thing might be justified given emergent circumstances.  I agree that it's really unusual to refuse an expected friend access to the facilities, but I've been in the position to understand completely how it can be reasonable.  I once had a friend visiting who went into my bathroom, and quite a while later had not returned.  I'll spare you the details of what happened in there but when I heard her sobbing through the door and finally convinced her to let me in to help her, the room looked bad enough that I won't describe it at all.  To answer gramma dishes's query about how long it could take to freshen up a bathroom this example shows that it could easily have happened quickly and could not be rectified on the spot, and the thing that lets Aoife's friend off the hook for one instance is that there was an alternative and Aoife even mentioned it. So, given all of this together, the condition of the room might have risen past "messy" to "humiliating" and so I'd give a friend a pass for refusing access to the loo without explanation as long as it wasn't repeated.

Virg

The bolded is exactly my thought. I could list 100 things that are gross that could excuse the friend. She could have had any number of accidents that she did not have time to clean up. I see people considering ending a friendship or cooling the relationship and it seems so extreme over a simple declined bathroom. Yes, OP was pregnant and I can totally see being slightly miffed at first just because of the inconvenience. But I try to always think the best of my friends and I would have given friend a bit of grace and assumed it must be pretty horrible if she would send a pregnant friend away rather than let her in.

My thought too.  From experience, I can say that having my cat's litter box in the downstairs bathroom, delicates soaking to wash in that sink, and the rest of my dirty laundry hamper in the upstairs bathroom; there have definitely been times when I would have told a friend they were all out of order if the friend had already offered to go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: DavidH on May 06, 2013, 11:38:39 AM
I think it's a bit odd, but offering to go elsewhere, kind of puts this in a weird category since it basically says to the friend the need is not urgent.  On the other hand, if the OP had shown up and said I've been caught short I really need to use your bathroom, it would be, in my mind, extremely rude to decline if the facilities were working.  Even if the house is a mess, leaving a friend to have an accident on your doorstep to avoid them seeing that your house is a mess is, I think, extremely rude.

If your (generic you) house is so messy that you'd rather a friend have an accident on your doorstep than to clean it enough for them to enter, it seems a good hint that it's time to do something.  Alternatively, you should go to extreme lengths to ensure the situation never arises, such as never having them meet you at your home.

If they deny you access, is it rude to say, do you mind if I just go behind the bush there, or can you bring a chamber pot out to me? 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Bashful on May 06, 2013, 11:49:49 AM
Assuming the real problem was a messy house/bathroom, may I say that - to me - the arrangement OP and her friend had doesn't imply a visit to the house? To me, it looked more like: ehy, come pick me up and let's go to the easy cycle road. When someone is picking me up, I don't expect him/her to come in my house. Probably I'd be waiting at the door with my jacket and purse. So, I wouldn't think of cleaning my bathroom.

Although, if my pregnant friend is having a 30 minutes walk for my convenience, well...I'd be waiting her holding a glass of fresh water and offering to stop at my place.

I don't think she was rude, but she was cold towards OP.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: TootsNYC on May 06, 2013, 11:56:14 AM
I have a friend that I meet only out and about.  Honestly, I have seen her home and I wouldn't eat there or use her bathroom.  It could have been one of those places only the OP's friend knows this about herself.  My friend on the other hand just thought her place was a tad messy. 


Not true in this case--the OP has been in the home about a month ago.

Of course a house can get really messy in a month, but not to hoarding standards yet.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Lynn2000 on May 06, 2013, 12:24:22 PM
I think it's a bit odd, but offering to go elsewhere, kind of puts this in a weird category since it basically says to the friend the need is not urgent.  On the other hand, if the OP had shown up and said I've been caught short I really need to use your bathroom, it would be, in my mind, extremely rude to decline if the facilities were working.  Even if the house is a mess, leaving a friend to have an accident on your doorstep to avoid them seeing that your house is a mess is, I think, extremely rude.

POD to this. Generally speaking, I think it's odd to deny a friend who was coming over as scheduled to do something with you, especially without further explanation. Yes, she mentioned the house was messy, but it would have to be "messy" as in biohazard-level for me to understand that as the reason why the OP couldn't use her bathroom.

HOWEVER--the OP immediately offering to go to the coffee shop changes it for me. Yes, she did this because she got a "do not enter" vibe from her friend first, but that gave the friend the perfect opportunity to say no, and she did. The threshold for "why" is much lower for me in this circumstance, allowing for the house to just be sorta kinda messier than she'd like people to see.

And honestly, at that point, if physically possible, I would prefer to use the coffee shop, because I would be thinking, "What does she know about her bathroom that I don't??" :X

Side note: Last time I was denied use of a bathroom it was at the mechanic shop where our car had been towed after getting a flat tire on the highway. It was delicately suggested that my mom and I would be better off walking down the street to the convenience store, because the on-site bathroom was "too manly." Which, from my brief glimpse, was code for grimy, with no door, and pictures of scantily-clad women on the walls. My mom and I were very happy to walk to the store instead!
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Zilla on May 06, 2013, 12:45:27 PM
I have a friend that I meet only out and about.  Honestly, I have seen her home and I wouldn't eat there or use her bathroom.  It could have been one of those places only the OP's friend knows this about herself.  My friend on the other hand just thought her place was a tad messy. 


Not true in this case--the OP has been in the home about a month ago.



Of course a house can get really messy in a month, but not to hoarding standards yet.


If you had quoted the rest of my post, you would have also seen that I would trust in my friend's judgment and need for privacy whatever the reason may be.  And if that dirty that they don't want to "inflict" that on me, I would appreciate it.  Not that I am a wilting flower that faints at messiness.  But I am not going to be so offended at being denied and would respect my friend's wish.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Bramble on May 06, 2013, 02:20:05 PM
In general, if someone had to drive/cycle/walk 30 minutes to my house and then we planned to leave from there for an activity together, I would expect that they would likely need to use my bathroom unless the activity was going to take us to a place with a decent public restroom within 5 minutes.  Even non-pregnant people can develop an urgent need over that period of time.  And if plans were for them to come back to my house before heading home, I'd expect them to likely want to stop again.

As someone who cycles regularly with a group of women friends, the rides almost always start and end with a potty break at the location we started at, which is often someone's house.  Particularly if we don't plan to ride by any public restrooms shortly.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Allyson on May 06, 2013, 02:39:19 PM
Hmm. I can't see a circumstance where I'd ever refuse to let a friend in my house, bu nor would I end a friendship over it. I can think of lots of different things that could've happened. Usually I am not in favour of excusing rude people with all kinds of 'well, maybe she has a disorder' possibilities, but in this case...well, to me it is just as unlikely that the friend is simply a rude person who won't let a friend use the washroom than that it's something a little different.

I have pretty bad anxiety at times, and while it's not about this issue in particular, it actually would make sense to me the friend might have a bit of a freakout/panic moment and not be able to properly explain what's going on, if it's something like a rather gross mess in the bathroom. I do think she should try to explain better, later on, if possible.

But to me, there are so many different variables that in an otherwise good friendship with someone who isn't otherwise selfish or rude, I would let it go.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Twik on May 06, 2013, 02:53:36 PM
I have a friend that I meet only out and about.  Honestly, I have seen her home and I wouldn't eat there or use her bathroom.  It could have been one of those places only the OP's friend knows this about herself.  My friend on the other hand just thought her place was a tad messy. 


Not true in this case--the OP has been in the home about a month ago.



Of course a house can get really messy in a month, but not to hoarding standards yet.


If you had quoted the rest of my post, you would have also seen that I would trust in my friend's judgment and need for privacy whatever the reason may be.  And if that dirty that they don't want to "inflict" that on me, I would appreciate it.  Not that I am a wilting flower that faints at messiness.  But I am not going to be so offended at being denied and would respect my friend's wish.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Raintree on May 07, 2013, 03:47:50 AM
If someone were cycling to my place to get me to go out cycling together, I'd probably assume that person might want to come in and use the washroom, so I'd be prepared and get it presentable just in case (if it wasn't already) or I'd arrange to meet them somewhere far enough away that they wouldn't ask to use my bathroom.

I'd never send a friend away to a coffee shop to use a bathroom, when they were RIGHT at my door.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: BeagleMommy on May 07, 2013, 11:39:56 AM
I think the OP's friend was rude, but not rude enough to end the friendship.  Maybe she was having a "my house looks like a tornado went through it" day and just felt embarrassed.  We may never know.

The funniest story I have is the time my mother was dropping off something at my house and asked to use the bathroom.  I said "Sure, but DH is going fishing in the morning so don't mind the minnows in the bathtub".  The look on her face was priceless.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: alis on May 07, 2013, 12:13:12 PM
Perhaps there was something embarassing in the bathroom. I can't imagine refusing a bathroom to a friend let alone a pregnant woman with the bladder the size of a thimble, but perhaps she has good reason but just can't say why. Some people are also germaphobes to the extreme.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Calistoga on May 07, 2013, 12:43:38 PM
Eh. I think I would personally be more embarrassed to tell someone "No, you can't pee here" than to have them see a mess, unless we're talking like...hoarder level disaster. But if I knew a pregnant friend was coming over that day I'd clean the house up before she got there and kind of assume the use of the bathroom would be required. So I'm imagining a situation where the state of the house was too far gone to fix with a 20 minutes tidy session.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: ladyknight1 on May 07, 2013, 02:34:32 PM
I wouldn't completely end the relationship, but there would be a cooling period. The body language alone would tell me something was wrong.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Cami on May 07, 2013, 04:11:14 PM
I wouldn't end the friendship, but that would be the last time I went over to her house.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Vall on May 08, 2013, 09:34:50 AM
If I continued the friendship, I wouldn't be too anxious to return to her house again for any reason.  Yes, she had the right to refuse to allow the OP to take care of a very basic need.  But I would be uncomfortable around someone so inhospitable.

As long as I had a working restroom, I would not be able to refuse to allow my friend to use it if needed--especially if the friend is pregnant or has medical conditions that may make them need to use it more often than others.  My friend's physical comfort would be more important to me than my possible embarrassment.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 11:21:50 AM
Possibilities:
Someone else was using the bathroom and it would be tied up for a while, OR someone was there (at the house) who friend did not want you to see, for whatever reason. 
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Emmy on May 13, 2013, 01:23:15 PM
I do feel the friend should have been prepared for OP to use the bathroom either before or after the bicycle trip.  If you are using your house as a meeting spot or somebody is picking you up/dropping you off, I feel you should be prepared for somebody to make a bathroom visit (barring some of the unusual circumstances mentioned earlier in the thread).  If you don't want people in the house/bathroom for any reason, you should simply meet the person at a third location.

If I was in the OP's shoes, I would have been annoyed and felt a bit put out, but would have gotten over it.  The OP did offer to use the coffee shop restroom and OP didn't indicate it was an emergency restroom visit.  If the OP came, asked to use the restroom, and was desperate, and friend refused, I would be angry and re-evaluate the friendship.

I do agree with others that I can easily overlook a messy home, a lack of hospitality would be much harder to overlook.  If the OP wants to meet her friend biking again, maybe it would be better to just meet at the coffee shop.  I wouldn't feel comfortable meeting at her place if I wasn't sure if I would have access to a restroom.
Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: veronaz on May 13, 2013, 02:06:23 PM
One reason I suggested someone might be there who friend did not want OP to see:

I once stopped by a relativeís house (she knew I was coming) to quickly pick up something and I thought it odd that she didnít say come in.  She was obviously uncomfortable and nervous, and she had the item and handed it to me quickly.  Much later I found out someone was visiting (I hadnít seen the car) who relative always spoke very negatively about and only the day before swore she wanted nothing to do with the person.  Odd.

Also maybe, as someone suggested, friend was having a rendezvous.  ;)

Regardless, I would feel uncomfortable about going to her house again.




Title: Re: Asking to use a friend's toilet and being refused
Post by: Eeep! on May 13, 2013, 06:44:58 PM
I do feel the friend should have been prepared for OP to use the bathroom either before or after the bicycle trip.  If you are using your house as a meeting spot or somebody is picking you up/dropping you off, I feel you should be prepared for somebody to make a bathroom visit (barring some of the unusual circumstances mentioned earlier in the thread).  If you don't want people in the house/bathroom for any reason, you should simply meet the person at a third location.

If I was in the OP's shoes, I would have been annoyed and felt a bit put out, but would have gotten over it.  The OP did offer to use the coffee shop restroom and OP didn't indicate it was an emergency restroom visit.  If the OP came, asked to use the restroom, and was desperate, and friend refused, I would be angry and re-evaluate the friendship.

I do agree with others that I can easily overlook a messy home, a lack of hospitality would be much harder to overlook.  If the OP wants to meet her friend biking again, maybe it would be better to just meet at the coffee shop.  I wouldn't feel comfortable meeting at her place if I wasn't sure if I would have access to a restroom.

I agree with this, especially the bolded.  It just doesn't seem like the fact that your pregnant friend would want to use your bathroom before or after a bike trip would be that surprising.