Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Techno-quette => Topic started by: GrammarNerd on May 16, 2013, 07:50:44 AM

Title: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: GrammarNerd on May 16, 2013, 07:50:44 AM
Situation/Question: You take a picture of a couple of people and put it on your FB wall.  You tag the other people.  You then find out that within minutes, one of the people has taken your picture, copied it and pasted it on her wall with no mention that you took the picture or where it came from.  (She didn't share it.)  Is that cool?

More BG: I posted some pictures of a sporting event that I went to.  They were good action pictures.  Two girls that I knew that were in the event/pictures (teenagers), and I tagged both of them and their moms.  (FYI that I am FB friends with them all--kids and adults--so that's not a problem.)  Typically, I might post a picture like this for the participants/parents b/c I have a good camera and can get some good shots occasionally.  Typically, the parent will say thanks and might 'like' the picture, and will share the pic if she wants to.  That's fine.  However, one of the moms this time went to the point of copying one of the pictures, pasting it to her wall, mentioning the event but never saying a word about where she got the picture from, or even that someone else took it.  She didn't even 'like' my original post or the picture that she appropriated!  Furthermore, someone even left a comment for her on 'her' picture post, "what a cool picture!' and she still didn't say that someone else actually took it.  If you go to the trouble of copying it for your wall, wouldn't you at least somehow thank the person who posted it for you to use?  I always give credit if I use something that someone else posted, and if it's one of those public funny pictures, I'll at least say that I got it from someone else.  So I'm annoyed.  Not mad, not going to lose any sleep over it, but I'm still annoyed. 

Would anyone else be annoyed with that or am I alone in my annoyance?

Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Margo on May 16, 2013, 08:16:35 AM
I'd be irritated-I think it's rude.

In your place, I'd be tempted to add a comment - something like "I'm glad you like it -the others I took are on my page if you're interested" which corrects the ownership of the picture while leaving it open for you/her to assume that her failure to credit you was an oversight.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: whiskeytangofoxtrot on May 16, 2013, 08:44:42 AM
I'd be irritated-I think it's rude.

In your place, I'd be tempted to add a comment - something like "I'm glad you like it -the others I took are on my page if you're interested" which corrects the ownership of the picture while leaving it open for you/her to assume that her failure to credit you was an oversight.

POD, and done that. Relative copied a photo of a mutual family member to their own album, which I didn't mind so much as the fact that they didn't at least ask first, and didn't give credit. Someone else commented on it, and I replied, "Thanks, it was the first photo I ever took with a 35mm camera, and I'm quite proud of it."

Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on May 16, 2013, 09:40:03 AM
I'm a avid amateur photographer.  I don't share every picture on facebook, but the ones I do share get a small watermark on an integral portion of the picture.  It's worked out pretty well.  I've only had a few pictures where I've had to go and post a comment to make sure the picture is attributed to me.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: GrammarNerd on May 16, 2013, 09:52:35 AM
OP here...The mom also just posted on my original post (on my wall, the one she never liked or commented on in the first place  ??? ) and said that if I got any other good shots, please send them to her so she can put them in the class slideshow.  Um.....torn about that one.  Don't really want to go out of my way for her anymore, but I know it would be nice for some of the kids to see their pictures.  Maybe I'll see if there's another contact I can send them to, under the auspices of it being for the school website or something.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Two Ravens on May 16, 2013, 10:02:49 AM
Do you actually think there is malicious intent here? Or is it possible that this other mother is just a bit clueless when it comes to crediting photos? Why don't you just give her a heads up that you would preferred the photos be credited to you?



Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on May 16, 2013, 10:35:43 AM
OP here...The mom also just posted on my original post (on my wall, the one she never liked or commented on in the first place  ??? ) and said that if I got any other good shots, please send them to her so she can put them in the class slideshow.  Um.....torn about that one.  Don't really want to go out of my way for her anymore, but I know it would be nice for some of the kids to see their pictures.  Maybe I'll see if there's another contact I can send them to, under the auspices of it being for the school website or something.

You don't have to share photos if you don't want to.  They belong to you.  If you want credit, then you have to tell her that you want credit.  Some photographers may not care, others like you do care.  However, it's not on the other Mom to read your mind and know what you want.

If it is really important to you to be credited, then you should be adding a watermark to any photos that you share in order to prevent unaccredited use.  There are several free and low cost watermark programs out there.  I use photoshop and a brush, but there are lots of different options available.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: cwm on May 16, 2013, 11:24:42 AM
OP here...The mom also just posted on my original post (on my wall, the one she never liked or commented on in the first place  ??? ) and said that if I got any other good shots, please send them to her so she can put them in the class slideshow.  Um.....torn about that one.  Don't really want to go out of my way for her anymore, but I know it would be nice for some of the kids to see their pictures.  Maybe I'll see if there's another contact I can send them to, under the auspices of it being for the school website or something.

I'd respond to her how excited you are to hear about a slideshow, and you'd love to work on it because you really like controlling how your images are presented. That lets her know that you DO want to control how your images are used. Also, I'm going to go along with everyone else and say to add a watermark to images.

I'm not sure how well it would work on FB now, but I know years ago my sister and I added images to a third-party image hosting site and then marked to disable right-click functions on the images, so nobody could right-click on the image and save it as their own. It's worth looking into this option as well. It's still technically possible to take other people's images even with this, it just makes it a lot harder.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Lynn2000 on May 16, 2013, 04:39:24 PM
I can see why you might be irritated, but I would be more likely to assume ignorance/carelessness rather than intent to deceive or be malicious. I like the idea of commenting on all unattributed photos, something that indicates you took it, in an indirect way. Some people just don't think about that kind of thing.

Now that you know the mom wants more photos for something, you have an opportunity to draw her attention to the attribution issue. I do think that if you feel proprietary about photos you've taken in general, it would be good to look into the watermark thing, if only because photos can be passed around the Internet so easily.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: MrTango on May 16, 2013, 04:57:26 PM
There is also an option to report the photo to Facebook.

View the photo and at the bottom, there is a button labeled options.  Choose Report.  A dialog box will pop up and there is a link at the bottom that says "is this your intellectual property?"  Click that link and it will give you options.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: *inviteseller on May 16, 2013, 07:54:00 PM
Unless they were taking actual credit for your copy righted material, I wouldn't say anything.  You tagged her in it and IMO, you are giving permission for them to use it.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: sammycat on May 16, 2013, 08:00:30 PM
I'd be irritated-I think it's rude.

In your place, I'd be tempted to add a comment - something like "I'm glad you like it -the others I took are on my page if you're interested" which corrects the ownership of the picture while leaving it open for you/her to assume that her failure to credit you was an oversight.

My thoughts too.

As for the slideshow, is the other mother organising it? If not, I'd contact the person who is in charge and offer them the photos directly, with a watermark on them (assuming you want to have them included). 

If other mother is organising it, I'd (personally) be too irritated to get involved, and I'd see about contacting the families directly and offering them online/digital copies of the photos.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: GrammarNerd on May 16, 2013, 10:21:45 PM
It's a fine line, I think.  I don't necessarily want all of this praise or credit or glowing theatrical comments about my awesome photography skills.  But it annoyed me that it was reposted RIGHT AWAY and there was NO mention at all that even someone else took the picture.  Not even a 'thanks to the mom who took the picture...you know who you are!' or something like that.  (And that would have been fine.)

I was trying to figure out a way to explain it, and I guess it's kind of like giving someone a birthday present.  You expect a 'thank you'.  You don't give the present BECAUSE you want to be thanked, but you still do expect it.  It's just one of those societal norms.  And if you don't get the expected thank you, it skews your perception of the event, or the person, or the situation.  Perhaps you don't need a gushing 15-minute dissertation of how you picked the perfect present, but you do expect some thanks, appreciation, acknowledgment. 

I don't want to go through the hassle of watermarking my pictures.  Most of the time, I don't even edit them.  If I do edit, it's very basic software that I use.  And I've honestly never run into this before, where someone would go to the trouble (lots more steps) to do it the way she did rather than just share it. 

Incidentally, the other mother involved shared the pics and said a very nice thanks.  No problem there at all.  She even tagged her daughter again.

In answer to a question, I don't think there was malicious intent, per se.  But nor was there, shall we say, honorable intent.  I just think it was rather thoughtless and like I said, annoying.   Inconsiderate.  I'll just cross them off my mental list of 'people to take pictures of' (yes, I know that's not grammatically correct ;) ) 

Oh, and I did post a comment on her wall similar to Margo's wording, so thanks for that idea.

Now I'm off to bed, where I will not be losing any sleep over this, and I'll be dreaming happy dreams (hopefully)!
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Lynn2000 on May 17, 2013, 10:00:37 AM
I don't want to go through the hassle of watermarking my pictures.  Most of the time, I don't even edit them.  If I do edit, it's very basic software that I use.  And I've honestly never run into this before, where someone would go to the trouble (lots more steps) to do it the way she did rather than just share it. 

For sharing vs. reposting, it's possible she's also somewhat clueless about how Facebook works. I know my boss goes through some torturous steps on the computer to do things, even though she works on the computer a lot. She just doesn't trust/remember/feel inclined to use the shortcuts. I think the woman should have mentioned that she got the photo from someone else, but reposting instead of sharing could just be another indication of cluelessness, as opposed to an attempt to sever the photo from association with you. :)
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: delabela on May 17, 2013, 11:14:46 AM
It would not occur to me to.credit a non-professional photo on facebook - if I was showing someone physical prints, I would.probably not say "so and so took this one". So tell her you'd like to be credited.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: whiskeytangofoxtrot on May 20, 2013, 12:43:24 PM
Just a thought- I often take photos at local dance events for the ladies in my troupe. The performances are public, so of course we don't have any control over people taking their own photos and posting them on the internet. That's a non-issue with us, although if the dancer is credited, it's certainly appreciated. IMO my photos aren't high quality, but I gladly offer the unrestricted use of the images by the dancers in them, if they wish.

However... a local business owner, not associated with these events, but who has had a business relationship with some of the dancers from time to time, has appropriated photos of dancers on more than one occasion, and has used them for promotional purposes without credit or compensation, even going as far as to reproduce them on merchandise. :o Unethical at the very least, and potentially illegal if it's not part of a contract. Most recently, it happened with some of my own photos that I posted  for the dancers in my FB album. Thankfully, it didn't appear they were being merchandised, but still- not cool. Now I include this in the album description, "... unlimited non-exclusive rights belong to the dancers to use your own images, if you like. If you see a photo you don't care for, let me know and I'll delete it. Everyone else, be respectful; no reproduction without permission of the subject, please." That seems to have put the brakes on that issue, as far as I can tell, and with that business owner, at least. We'll see.

Anyhow, I got windy, but I say that to suggest including a comment on your album stating your own feelings about photo reproduction; maybe it'd help (?).
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: SingActDance on May 21, 2013, 03:35:43 PM
IMO, this is not like giving somebody a birthday present. You snapped some photos and shared them on Facebook, from which they can be downloaded and shared at will across the internet. Unless you watermark them, there's no reason anyone would think you want to control how they are used/shared. In future, I suggest Flickr or some other sharing site from which they can't be downloaded.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Eeep! on May 23, 2013, 04:03:28 PM
I could be wrong, but I suspect this is mostly a difference in the way people use FB.  I'm betting that she saved it to her phone and then uploaded it on her page.  I have sometimes done that with pictures (most of the time the silly someecard things) because I want it to only have whatever I want to say, not whatever the person who originally posted it said, which it does if you share it.  Now if I was using an awesome artistic picture that someone I knew took, I would likely say something about it in my post. But I know I have posted a picture of, say, my adorable nephew, that my SIL took and originally posted and it didn't occur to me that I would need to credit her for that.  So she may have just been thinking of it as the latter, rather than the former.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Hmmmmm on May 23, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
I'm becoming more curious about this issue and when people expect the photographer to be credited.

Here's some examples:
1. Swim team mom Sue takes some photos of a swim event of individual swimmers and emails the photos to the parents. If a parent posts the email to their facebook account with "Jr's 1st Blue Ribbon" would you expect a 'photo taken by Sue' to also be included?

2. Swim team mom Sue takes photos of a swim meet and posts them to her facebook page. You find one of your child and copy it to your facebook wall so that it is easy access for future reference (and just in case you and Sue are no longer facebook friends after the swim season). Do you expect a 'photo taken by Sue'?

3. Your at a swim meet and have your own camera and want a photo with your child and ask Sue to take the photo because you know Sue is a great photographer. You post it to FB. Do you post it with "me and jr at swim meet...photo taken by Sue"?
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on May 23, 2013, 06:38:04 PM
Each person is different. 

As a serious amateur photographer I don't share any photos that aren't "good". All of my photos go through post processing, so it's only one more step to stamp it with my watermark brush.  That includes photos for facebook, flickr, photobucket, contests,etc.  Every photo that I take with my camera and share has a watermark on it.  I know that not everyone feels the way I do about taking and sharing pictures.  So rather than contact each individual person who may see my pictures.  Or rather than put a long message on all of my photo albums, I just watermark the pictures before I share them online.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: AngelicGamer on May 23, 2013, 10:43:12 PM
What I'm curious about is why Other Mom didn't hit share.  Why go through copy/pasting?  It just seems unnecessary.  If I see a picture of me in a friend's album, I hit share and it says where the picture is from.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: sammycat on May 24, 2013, 12:15:18 AM
What I'm curious about is why Other Mom didn't hit share.  Why go through copy/pasting?  It just seems unnecessary.  If I see a picture of me in a friend's album, I hit share and it says where the picture is from.

I was wondering that too. On the few occasions I've posed a photo that someone else took, I've credited the photographer as I think it's fair that they get the acknowledgement for taking the picture, as well as any praise for the quality etc.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: GrammarNerd on May 24, 2013, 10:43:13 AM
What I'm curious about is why Other Mom didn't hit share.  Why go through copy/pasting?  It just seems unnecessary.  If I see a picture of me in a friend's album, I hit share and it says where the picture is from.

I was wondering that too. On the few occasions I've posed a photo that someone else took, I've credited the photographer as I think it's fair that they get the acknowledgement for taking the picture, as well as any praise for the quality etc.

YES!  Exactly my point.  Thank you, AngelicGamer and sammycat. Why go through the extra effort, and then intentionally not say where the pic came from, even after two people comment on the shot and you don't clarify?  I've just never run into that before, and it just seemed....off.  Lesson learned.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: snowdragon on May 24, 2013, 12:07:31 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.


Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: delabela on May 25, 2013, 06:33:08 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Eeep! on May 25, 2013, 11:29:08 PM
What I'm curious about is why Other Mom didn't hit share.  Why go through copy/pasting?  It just seems unnecessary.  If I see a picture of me in a friend's album, I hit share and it says where the picture is from.

I was wondering that too. On the few occasions I've posed a photo that someone else took, I've credited the photographer as I think it's fair that they get the acknowledgement for taking the picture, as well as any praise for the quality etc.

YES!  Exactly my point.  Thank you, AngelicGamer and sammycat. Why go through the extra effort, and then intentionally not say where the pic came from, even after two people comment on the shot and you don't clarify?  I've just never run into that before, and it just seemed....off.  Lesson learned.

But I don't think it's really all that much extra effort. I can totally see someone saying "oh fun picture! Ill save it to my phone." Then a bit later thinking "I should post that picture." Then they just upload it. Not that many more steps. Particularly of someone would want to save the picture anyway.
Plus, as I mentioned before, when you share I think it pulls the other persons post with it. So if you just wanted to have your own language you would want to post it yourself. (FB is always changing so I could be wrong about that. Heh.)
Now once people started complimenting the shot it would probably prompt me to give credit to the original photographer.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Deetee on May 26, 2013, 04:42:33 AM
I stopped tagging people in posts when I realised that it meant Facebook shared the part with all of their friends too.  To my mind attributions to the photographer are uncommon. People have taken pictures I have posted and used them as profile pics and I never thought twice about it (until now). I was always happy they liked the shot. I have never credited the photographer of my profile pictures either.

Now if I had a photo that was an amazing shot or the friend was a professional I might mention it but i might not. I wouldn't claim any photography skill, but I don't think posting does that. To my mind posting is just " hey I like this picture)

As I post this my profile pic is a photo taken by my four year old who was using my old camera and got a nice shot of me and my home page photo is one where I asked my sister to take a specific landscape shot for me while I was busy. Neither are credited.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: kckgirl on May 26, 2013, 07:14:08 AM
When I am tagged in a photo, it appears on my wall without me doing anything. Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE she copied and pasted it?
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: snowdragon on May 26, 2013, 02:38:38 PM
When I am tagged in a photo, it appears on my wall without me doing anything. Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE she copied and pasted it?

When I see people tagged in phot's I know whose page it came from it reads something like" George takei was tagged in gandalf's photo"
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: snowdragon on May 26, 2013, 02:44:17 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.

The lie and the theft are both the same in allowing someone to believe you made the cake you deny the baker rightful credit. Same with a photo...it's called intellectual property rights and even Facebook allows you to report people for not crediting property under that umbrella. 
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: NyaChan on May 26, 2013, 02:52:19 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.

I think this can vary for people though.  If I gave someone a cake I baked and they served it someone and didn't credit me when someone complimented them on it, I would be offended.  In my circle, people even credit the people who made up the recipe where the actual item was made by themselves.  i.e. "Thank you! I got the recipe from GoodBaker."  If you were serving something that looked store-bought and just said "glad you like it" I wouldn't think anything of it though as the natural implication is not that the host has made the item. 
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: snowdragon on May 26, 2013, 03:17:37 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.

I think this can vary for people though.  If I gave someone a cake I baked and they served it someone and didn't credit me when someone complimented them on it, I would be offended.  In my circle, people even credit the people who made up the recipe where the actual item was made by themselves.  i.e. "Thank you! I got the recipe from GoodBaker."  If you were serving something that looked store-bought and just said "glad you like it" I wouldn't think anything of it though as the natural implication is not that the host has made the item.

Nya Chan explains it better than I do.  In my circle if you did not give credit, folks would back away from sharing with you, and if you repeated it more than once, they would back away from the relationship. I've seen it happen.
 
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: delabela on May 26, 2013, 05:07:23 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

To me, this is an extreme position that I would don't think people should be expected to know about unless you told them - let's say you give me a cake, and I later serve a piece of it to someone else.  If they praise it, it's likely I would say "thanks, my friend so-and-so made it" but I very well could just say "I'm glad you like it" or something like that, particularly if they don't know you.  What's the theft there?  What's the lie?  I think there's an assumption of bad motives when really there could be just a desire to use "social shorthand."

Now, if I knew someone wanted credit for something, I would certainly give it.  But I don't think having different standards for what requires credit means one is rude, much less a thief and a liar.

I think this can vary for people though.  If I gave someone a cake I baked and they served it someone and didn't credit me when someone complimented them on it, I would be offended.  In my circle, people even credit the people who made up the recipe where the actual item was made by themselves.  i.e. "Thank you! I got the recipe from GoodBaker."  If you were serving something that looked store-bought and just said "glad you like it" I wouldn't think anything of it though as the natural implication is not that the host has made the item.

I absolutely agree with the bolded - what I'm saying is that to assume one's position is the default position for everyone in the world is likely incorrect, and where one person may perceive bad intentions there may be none.  I suppose I am also saying it baffles me that one would take offense or end friendships over 'lack of credit', but to each their own.  Personally, I would be happy someone was enjoying my picture/cake/etc, and leave it at that, as it doesn't impact me in the least whether or not I get credit for my item.  But I get not everyone feels that way, and that's ok.  If one does feel that strongly, it is probably best to let people know that before letting them have access to one's picture/cake/etc.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Deetee on May 27, 2013, 12:00:24 PM
I was thinking about this some more and I realize that this is quite common. About 3/4 of my facebook friends have a picture of themselves as a profile picture and/or cover photo. Very rarely do these pictures have any attribution as to who took the photo (the only exception I know offhand is a couple watermarked commercial photos). At least two of my friends have photos that I took. It never occurred to me to ask for attribution.

However, I would feel differently if it was a photograph that took skill and/or expensive equipment and/or patience etc... Those should be credited.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Lynn2000 on May 28, 2013, 05:04:46 PM
I agree that there is variation in what reasonable people can expect re: credit for creating something. I think if attribution is important to you (general), there's no harm in being more proactive about it--whether that's watermarking photos, posting them only at sites where they can't be downloaded easily, including a message on your FB page asking people to always credit you, or politely tracking down people who leave off the attribution and saying, "Hey, could you please tag me in the photo, since I took it? Photography is a serious hobby of mine and I like to know where my photos go, and make sure they have my name on them. Thanks!" No need to sit and stew about it, or assume malicious intent--I feel like most of the people I know are pretty lax about such things, and assigning credit simply wouldn't occur to them. But, I think they would be happy to do so once someone politely alerted them to the issue, and it would probably make them more aware of assigning credit in a similar situation next time.

Funny story: My cousin's wife is a professional photography and posts a lot of pictures on FB. Recently her husband used a photo she'd taken as his cover photo, and happened to crop it in such a way that her watermark was cut off! She called him out on it, in a humorous way, on FB. So even people who live with professionals and completely respect their artistry can make mistakes sometimes.

Re: the cake--I think for me, it would depend on the natural flow of the conversation. IME part of the "this cake is great" conversation is "who baked it," so proper credit would be given naturally. If someone didn't specifically ask, my assumption would be they didn't really care, not that they were erroneously giving credit to me in their minds; and if they said anything about it later--like, "Hey, Lynn2000 makes awesome cakes!"--I would quickly set them right. That's just me and my social circle, though; I can see how miscommunications would arise with people who do things differently, but hopefully we could get everything worked out politely.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: gramma dishes on May 28, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here.  :(
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Deetee on May 28, 2013, 11:00:23 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here.  :(

I will just speak to why I personally do not care if someone takes a picture of mine. Photography is a very, very small part of my life. I point and shoot. When I get a good photo, it's just a combo of luck and persistence. I have a level of competence, but not skill. So once I take a photo, I don't really consider it mine. It's not a reflection on me or my worth as a person (some of my other skills I do feel reflect on me because I have worked on them). When someone takes one of my photos (which happens on occasion) and reposts it, I'm happy because it means they like it. If someone else thinks that they took it and not me, I don't see why I should care about that. This may be different if this was a skill I worked at, but it isn't-Right now, my pics get picked for family photos as I somehow ended up with the nicest camera (on my phone).
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: delabela on May 28, 2013, 11:43:23 PM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here.  :(

I find this a bit dismissive.  Not all things are obvious in the same way to all people and all circles - that's part of the fun of this board.  I have tried to understand the other side in this thread while explaining my point of view, and while I may not agree with it, I respect it and would conform my behavior if I knew a friend was troubled by the lack of 'credit'. 

Deetee was far more eloquent than I.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: SingActDance on May 29, 2013, 10:02:43 AM
You want the credit, you watermark the photo and/or be more diligent about what you post. Caption the photo to say "please credit photographer when sharing or reposting." It's on you to protect your intellectual property. Facebook culture seems to lean towards "photo sharing free-for-all", so I would suggest a different venue for photo sharing if you are bothered by how much access people have to your work.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Hmmmmm on May 29, 2013, 10:29:39 AM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here.  :(

I think this is pretty dismissive of those who've said they don't care if thier photos are used without naming the photographer. I personally think if you care about attribution you need to watermark your photos before loading to a site that easily allows this function. I have taught my kids that once they load something on the Internet they have lost all control unless they do something to actively control it.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Lynn2000 on May 29, 2013, 10:36:21 AM
I think if I take the photo - I should get credit for it.  Just like if I make the quilt, paint the portrait or cook the meal.

I simply can not understand the idea that someone should be able to take someone else's work and lead other people to believe that they created it. It's theft just as if I did anything else and you took it and presented as yours. By not crediting the creator, you are letting people thing you took the picture - and that's theft and a lie and when I have seen it done, I have dropped friends over it.

I agree with you Snowdragon!  You've stated it very well.  I don't understand why this basic concept isn't intuitively obvious, yet it apparently is not.  Even here.  :(

I will just speak to why I personally do not care if someone takes a picture of mine. Photography is a very, very small part of my life. I point and shoot. When I get a good photo, it's just a combo of luck and persistence. I have a level of competence, but not skill. So once I take a photo, I don't really consider it mine. It's not a reflection on me or my worth as a person (some of my other skills I do feel reflect on me because I have worked on them). When someone takes one of my photos (which happens on occasion) and reposts it, I'm happy because it means they like it. If someone else thinks that they took it and not me, I don't see why I should care about that. This may be different if this was a skill I worked at, but it isn't-Right now, my pics get picked for family photos as I somehow ended up with the nicest camera (on my phone).

POD. I feel the way Deetee does, about my own photography. This does not mean I'm dismissive of other people's efforts, but I wouldn't necessarily automatically assume they feel that way, so it would be helpful if they made the occasional statement etc. to that effect, and I would try to honor it.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: daen on May 30, 2013, 04:04:40 PM
What it comes down to, for me, is that I (or you, or anyone) essentially lose control of anything I post on Facebook, or anywhere else on the internet. Yes, I have legal rights to my own work (written, image, whatever), but once I put it out there, there's no way to prevent a really determined person for hijacking it for his/her own use and credit. I suppose I have legal recourse once that happens, but it's not protection against it.

If getting credit for an image is important to me, it's on me to watermark it and make it obvious that it's mine. It's also on me to realize that anyone with enough time and determination (and skills) can still appropriate it if they want. Some sites and posting methods make it more difficult, but I'm fairly certain that anything can be reversed, hacked, stolen, what have you - if not today, soon.

In the end, I look at the risk of appropriation (including the work it would take to do so) and the value of my work, and weigh it against my wish to share it, and decide accordingly. Someone wants to take credit for this post? Eh, sure, whatever. I don't feel all that strongly about it. Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: gramma dishes on May 30, 2013, 04:21:23 PM
...    Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

Some feel the same way about their photographs.   :)
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Two Ravens on May 30, 2013, 05:15:11 PM
...    Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

Some feel the same way about their photographs.   :)

Yes, but if you feel this way, you should probably not post it to a social networking site. I certainly wouldn't be posting a novel (or even a short story) on Facebook.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: gramma dishes on May 30, 2013, 07:47:21 PM
...    Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

Some feel the same way about their photographs.   :)

Yes, but if you feel this way, you should probably not post it to a social networking site. I certainly wouldn't be posting a novel (or even a short story) on Facebook.

Agreed.  And most people who take their photography seriously but still want to share with other photographers do not post them on "social networks" (like Facebook).   They use a photo site.  The vast majority of people using photo sites know the rules and abide by them, but it only takes a few to mess things up. 

But there are people who seem to think that even though a photograph clearly has the copyright symbol right there, if it's ANYWHERE on the internet, it's theirs to take.  They think if it's anywhere on the computer it's free game.  It isn't. 

Photographers are beginning to crack down and go after people who steal their stuff and then use it or sell it for their own profit as if it were their own work.  It's sad that some people seem to have no respect for anything other people have, do or produce until it's something of theirs.  But it's really just plain old theft.  It's not really any different than stealing someone's novel or painting or doctoral thesis.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: NyaChan on May 30, 2013, 08:10:18 PM
But people post fanfiction online all time and I think it is generally accepted that plagiarism of those stories is wrong.  Why is posting a photo so different?  While the stories are posted under a name, anyone can copy and paste the text elsewhere, same as reposting a photo.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: daen on May 31, 2013, 07:59:58 AM
But people post fanfiction online all time and I think it is generally accepted that plagiarism of those stories is wrong.  Why is posting a photo so different?  While the stories are posted under a name, anyone can copy and paste the text elsewhere, same as reposting a photo.

I can think of a few reasons.

It might be that it's because visuals are so widely useful in online posting. Illustrate a blog post? pic. Event I was at? pic. Background for a saying? pic. Avatar? pic. Facebook bling? pic. There's demand for photos in a way that doesn't exist for blocks of text longer than a brisk quote.

It might also have something to do with the fact that practically anyone has the means to take a picture -lots of pictures- now, and because there are so many pictures around, pics in general are devalued. The amount of effort it takes to compose and take a good picture is invisible, because it's so easy to take a passable/almost good picture. The effort it takes to write a novel or fan-fic is a little more obvious to most people, so they tend to respect that effort a little more.

There's also that it's a lot harder to pass off someone else's writing as your own, because writing style is more obvious than picture-composition style.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Lynn2000 on May 31, 2013, 01:04:47 PM
Another thing I was thinking about is that in school, there's often a certain amount of emphasis on how to cite a book, article, or other piece of text. People don't necessarily learn or remember the details correctly, but I think it sticks in their minds that a longish text is something that ought to be attributed. (Granted, there are people who defy this.) Maybe with multimedia being easier to access, schools are teaching more about citing photos, diagrams, videos, song clips, etc., but this wasn't really even on the radar when I was in school--a total non-issue. So not as many people get that "catch" in their brain that says, "Hey, maybe I should say where I got this..." when looking at a photo.

These are all reasons why a normally polite person might simply not think of citing photos. Hopefully a polite reminder would be all it takes for them to rectify the situation, and be more observant in the future. Obviously there are other people who go around deliberately stealing stuff and taking credit for it, but I would like to think they're in the minority.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: TootsNYC on June 03, 2013, 02:36:21 PM
You want the credit, you watermark the photo and/or be more diligent about what you post. Caption the photo to say "please credit photographer when sharing or reposting." It's on you to protect your intellectual property. Facebook culture seems to lean towards "photo sharing free-for-all", so I would suggest a different venue for photo sharing if you are bothered by how much access people have to your work.

Did you know that Facebook strips those all away? So even if you put a watermark or copyright embedded in your file, Facebook will remove them.

True, you can add the caption, and I think the OP should do that.

I also think she can say to the woman, "I'm not eager to send you my pictures because I feel strongly that they belong to me. At the very least, I always want credit for them, and you copied one of my pictures into your photo file without crediting me at all. So, I don't know whether you will actually put my credit ON my pictures or not."

There's nothing rude about that. And it gives her the info that perhaps she doesn't have.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Cat-Fu on June 03, 2013, 03:26:13 PM
No, facebook does not remove watermarks.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: thedudeabides on June 03, 2013, 04:21:11 PM
You want the credit, you watermark the photo and/or be more diligent about what you post. Caption the photo to say "please credit photographer when sharing or reposting." It's on you to protect your intellectual property. Facebook culture seems to lean towards "photo sharing free-for-all", so I would suggest a different venue for photo sharing if you are bothered by how much access people have to your work.

Did you know that Facebook strips those all away? So even if you put a watermark or copyright embedded in your file, Facebook will remove them.

True, you can add the caption, and I think the OP should do that.

I also think she can say to the woman, "I'm not eager to send you my pictures because I feel strongly that they belong to me. At the very least, I always want credit for them, and you copied one of my pictures into your photo file without crediting me at all. So, I don't know whether you will actually put my credit ON my pictures or not."

There's nothing rude about that. And it gives her the info that perhaps she doesn't have.

That is incorrect. Facebook strips out much of the exif data attached to the picture (GPS, camera specs, etc), but it does not remove watermarks.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 03, 2013, 06:12:40 PM
You want the credit, you watermark the photo and/or be more diligent about what you post. Caption the photo to say "please credit photographer when sharing or reposting." It's on you to protect your intellectual property. Facebook culture seems to lean towards "photo sharing free-for-all", so I would suggest a different venue for photo sharing if you are bothered by how much access people have to your work.

Did you know that Facebook strips those all away? So even if you put a watermark or copyright embedded in your file, Facebook will remove them.

True, you can add the caption, and I think the OP should do that.

I also think she can say to the woman, "I'm not eager to send you my pictures because I feel strongly that they belong to me. At the very least, I always want credit for them, and you copied one of my pictures into your photo file without crediting me at all. So, I don't know whether you will actually put my credit ON my pictures or not."

There's nothing rude about that. And it gives her the info that perhaps she doesn't have.

I third that.  facebook does not remove watermarks at all
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: artk2002 on June 04, 2013, 04:15:50 PM
But people post fanfiction online all time and I think it is generally accepted that plagiarism of those stories is wrong.  Why is posting a photo so different?  While the stories are posted under a name, anyone can copy and paste the text elsewhere, same as reposting a photo.

The fact that people get away with stuff in one area doesn't mean that we have to let them get away with it in another.

Fan fiction is an odd beast, too, because people are working in the grey areas between theft, parody, and fair use. I suspect that a lot of copyright holders don't pursue fan fiction writers in part because there's at least some creativity. It's not like someone just posts a full Star Trek script. Posting a picture is flat-out stealing -- worse if there's no credit given. You can also make a case that the stealing of a picture is far more damaging to the photographer than a badly written piece of fan fiction is to a multimillion dollar studio. But that's a choice that the copyright owner gets to make, not the people who want to use the copyright owner's work.

Here's some advice: If you want to use something created by someone else, unless you have explicit permission to do so, don't. Just because other people are getting away with it, don't try. Respect the right of the creator to control what happens to their creation, just as you'd expect someone to respect you when you create something.

There are people who want to share their work and have others use it. I write open source software myself and include a permissive license. For non-software stuff, there's the Creative Commons. That's a conscious choice that I've made. I've had people appropriate my work without permission and it makes me very, very unhappy. (30+ years later, I'm still angry that someone took a band arrangement I made, changed the key and put his name on it.)
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: NyaChan on June 04, 2013, 04:19:36 PM
artk2002 - my point wasn't about the relationship between the fanfiction authors and the authors of the works they are basing their stories on -that's a whole different kettle of fish.  I was talking about people plagiarizing what other fanfiction authors have written and claiming that it is their own fanfiction.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 04, 2013, 08:09:21 PM
artk2002 - my point wasn't about the relationship between the fanfiction authors and the authors of the works they are basing their stories on -that's a whole different kettle of fish.  I was talking about people plagiarizing what other fanfiction authors have written and claiming that it is their own fanfiction.

To me the wording you used made it sound like it was ok to plagiarize one type of creation and not the other. 
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: NyaChan on June 05, 2013, 01:00:19 AM
No, I don't support plagiarism.  I was merely trying to describe how with another self-created (and yes I get that fanfiction is murky in that area, but it was the best analogy I could come up with at the time) item posted on the internet, it is generally expected that someone give credit and not try to appropriate it and therefore, a photograph should similarly be given proper credit to the person who created it and not be appropriated by reposting without mention of its provenance. 

When I said it is generally accepted that plagiarism of those stories is wrong, I meant that people generally accept that it is wrong to copy someone else's posted fanfiction and claim it as their own work.  I was not saying, yeah it is plagiarism, but people do it all the time.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: artk2002 on June 05, 2013, 09:53:16 AM
artk2002 - my point wasn't about the relationship between the fanfiction authors and the authors of the works they are basing their stories on -that's a whole different kettle of fish.  I was talking about people plagiarizing what other fanfiction authors have written and claiming that it is their own fanfiction.

Ah... then the explanations are even more simple. 1) They don't understand their rights and so don't make a complaint; and 2) Other than filing a DMCA takedown request, it takes a lawyer to go after the thieves; 3) Since they're working in a legal grey area to begin with, I'm not sure anybody really wants to make waves. That could end up with everybody getting shut down. If I take a photograph and someone makes a copy, I can generally prove that it was mine to begin with. If I make a legally dubious fanfic, I'm not going to go after someone for copying it because they could get me in trouble with the original copyright holder.

To repeat, just because people get away with something, it doesn't mean that that something is legal, moral, or ethical.

No, I don't support plagiarism.  I was merely trying to describe how with another self-created (and yes I get that fanfiction is murky in that area, but it was the best analogy I could come up with at the time) item posted on the internet, it is generally expected that someone give credit and not try to appropriate it and therefore, a photograph should similarly be given proper credit to the person who created it and not be appropriated by reposting without mention of its provenance. 

No. A photograph shouldn't be reposted at all without the photographer's permission; in truth, neither should fanfic. The fact that some people in the fanfic world are willing to share their work, with some attribution, doesn't mean that a photographer must follow the same philosophy. Each creator has the right to determine how their work can (or cannot) be used. A community, whether it's fanfic or photography, can't force that on them.

To illustrate some of the control a creator can have, look at the "License Features" section here (https://creativecommons.org/choose/).
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: miranova on June 06, 2013, 06:31:47 PM
I feel like I live in a different world than a lot of you.  Everyone I know shares other people's photos all the time on Facebook, and none of us care. 

In fact, I almost expect people to take my photos sometimes.   Multiple relatives get photos of my children that way, they save and print them from my facebook page, and I see them later framed in their homes.  I shared them for the actual purpose of sharing them, so why would that bother me?  And if they want to re-post them on their wall saying "look at my cute nephew" or whatever, I expect that to happen on Facebook.  It's a medium I use for that purpose, to share photos of my kids for other family to enjoy.  It has never occurred to me to need credit for taking the photo in question.  I just don't relate to this.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: miranova on June 06, 2013, 06:36:13 PM
...    Someone passes off one of my novels as his/her own original work? I will fight for that, and fight hard.

Some feel the same way about their photographs.   :)

Yes, but if you feel this way, you should probably not post it to a social networking site. I certainly wouldn't be posting a novel (or even a short story) on Facebook.

Exactly.

I think also that people are attributing bad motives where there are none.   There are many valid reasons to post a photo that don't include trying to pass oneself off as the photographer of the photo in question.  Obviously if someone is trying to actually claim credit for something they didn't do, that's wrong and rude.  But simply posting a photo is not equal to claiming to be the photographer of that photo.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: gramma dishes on June 06, 2013, 07:26:13 PM
I think I need to explain that I was NOT talking specifically about Facebook.  I'm not a participant in that and have no idea what the rules and regulations are there (if any).

I do, however, participate in another site that is explicitly for showing your own pictures and viewing other people's.   On that site, unless you mark your photos for creative commons (which has its own set of rules and may or may not require permission from the photographer), all photos are copyrighted and it says so clearly right there on the page.  In addition, some of the photographers add another additional notice of copyright either directly on the picture or right underneath it, or they use watermarks.

YET .... there have been many instances of people stealing photos from that site, applying the photos to t-shirts, coffee mugs, etc. and selling those items for profit of course and without permission from the photographer.  Some people are even copying and enlarging the pictures and selling them as artwork under their own name. 

Obviously if you're putting pictures on Facebook of your own children and making them available to your friends and family members in hopes that they will like them enough to copy them for their own 'scrapbooks', that's a whole different situation. 

But if there's any question at all as to whether or not the person who took the picture wants it shared further than his/her original post, I think it would be polite at the very least to ask if it's okay to copy and repost the picture  somewhere else and to make sure the actual photographer is at least credited.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: thedudeabides on June 07, 2013, 09:13:47 AM
I think I need to explain that I was NOT talking specifically about Facebook.  I'm not a participant in that and have no idea what the rules and regulations are there (if any).

I do, however, participate in another site that is explicitly for showing your own pictures and viewing other people's.   On that site, unless you mark your photos for creative commons (which has its own set of rules and may or may not require permission from the photographer), all photos are copyrighted and it says so clearly right there on the page.  In addition, some of the photographers add another additional notice of copyrighut either directly on the picture or right underneath it, or they use watermarks.

YET .... there have been many instances of people stealing photos from that site, applying the photos to t-shirts, coffee mugs, etc. and selling those items for profit of course and without permission from the photographer.  Some people are even copying and enlarging the pictures and selling them as artwork under their own name. 

Obviously if you're putting pictures on Facebook of your own children and making them available to your friends and family members in hopes that they will like them enough to copy them for their own 'scrapbooks', that's a whole different situation. 

But if there's any question at all as to whether or not the person who took the picture wants it shared further than his/her original post, I think it would be polite at the very least to ask if it's okay to copy and repost the picture  somewhere else and to make sure the actual photographer is at least credited.

I agree with this. Further, if you're talking about an artist who uses his or her Facebook page to promote that art, you need to get permission to use his or her photos of artwork.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Shoo on June 07, 2013, 10:24:55 AM
I feel like I live in a different world than a lot of you.  Everyone I know shares other people's photos all the time on Facebook, and none of us care. 

In fact, I almost expect people to take my photos sometimes.   Multiple relatives get photos of my children that way, they save and print them from my facebook page, and I see them later framed in their homes.  I shared them for the actual purpose of sharing them, so why would that bother me?  And if they want to re-post them on their wall saying "look at my cute nephew" or whatever, I expect that to happen on Facebook.  It's a medium I use for that purpose, to share photos of my kids for other family to enjoy.  It has never occurred to me to need credit for taking the photo in question.  I just don't relate to this.

That's what the "share" button is for.  It allows FB users to share other people's photos while still showing who the original photographer was/is.  I like using the share button.  It's a lot easier than downloading and then uploading the same picture again.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Two Ravens on June 07, 2013, 01:39:44 PM
I don't think the "share" button is actually that well understood by the average Facebook user. I know several people who thought that by using the "share" button, the picture would only been seen by mutual friends, and not by the "sharer's" entire friend list. "But if I do that, then Grandma won't be able to see it, since Muriel has her blocked," etc.

Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Roe on June 09, 2013, 09:54:11 AM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I see nothing wrong with what the mom did.  You tagged them thereby giving them permission to use the pictures.  Unless you are a professional photographer who took professional photos and didn't get paid, I don't think you have much complaint. 
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 09, 2013, 11:31:19 AM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I see nothing wrong with what the mom did.  You tagged them thereby giving them permission to use the pictures.  Unless you are a professional photographer who took professional photos and didn't get paid, I don't think you have much complaint. 

tagging is not giving permission to use the pictures.  She doesn't have to be a "professional" to get credit for taking the picture. 
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Two Ravens on June 09, 2013, 11:40:19 AM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I see nothing wrong with what the mom did.  You tagged them thereby giving them permission to use the pictures.  Unless you are a professional photographer who took professional photos and didn't get paid, I don't think you have much complaint.

I am wondering if the photographers in the his thread would be upset if someone took a picture that they had posted on Facebook, printed it out and displayed it in their home, or mailed it to relatives or used it as a Christmas card. Credit is stripped in that case as well. Would that be considered the same thing?
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Roe on June 09, 2013, 01:33:08 PM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I see nothing wrong with what the mom did.  You tagged them thereby giving them permission to use the pictures.  Unless you are a professional photographer who took professional photos and didn't get paid, I don't think you have much complaint. 

tagging is not giving permission to use the pictures.  She doesn't have to be a "professional" to get credit for taking the picture.

Tagging is not sharing?  I disagree. Once you post a picture on FB, its really difficult to control how people use it. The mom used a pic, that she was tagged on, as her cover photo. I see nothing wrong with it.

What kind of credit did OP want?  Money? Recognition? Seems a little self involved if she's annoyed simply because she didn't get any praise for a good picture. Someone out there posted "good picture." That's praise. Why isn't that enough?
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: gramma dishes on June 09, 2013, 02:41:15 PM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I see nothing wrong with what the mom did.  You tagged them thereby giving them permission to use the pictures.  Unless you are a professional photographer who took professional photos and didn't get paid, I don't think you have much complaint. 


tagging is not giving permission to use the pictures.  She doesn't have to be a "professional" to get credit for taking the picture.

Tagging is not sharing?  I disagree. Once you post a picture on FB, its really difficult to control how people use it. The mom used a pic, that she was tagged on, as her cover photo. I see nothing wrong with it.

What kind of credit did OP want?  Money? Recognition? Seems a little self involved if she's annoyed simply because she didn't get any praise for a good picture. Someone out there posted "good picture." That's praise. Why isn't that enough?


I don't think the photographer was looking for praise, just the recognition that SHE took the picture. 

Yes, someone posted the words "good picture" on it on the other woman's page.  What a golden opportunity for the reposting person to acknowledge that and say, " I agree it's a great picture.  Soandso took it."

Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.   It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 09, 2013, 04:48:16 PM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I see nothing wrong with what the mom did.  You tagged them thereby giving them permission to use the pictures.  Unless you are a professional photographer who took professional photos and didn't get paid, I don't think you have much complaint. 

tagging is not giving permission to use the pictures.  She doesn't have to be a "professional" to get credit for taking the picture.

Tagging is not sharing?  I disagree. Once you post a picture on FB, its really difficult to control how people use it. The mom used a pic, that she was tagged on, as her cover photo. I see nothing wrong with it.

What kind of credit did OP want?  Money? Recognition? Seems a little self involved if she's annoyed simply because she didn't get any praise for a good picture. Someone out there posted "good picture." That's praise. Why isn't that enough?

Because it's a legal thing, not a social thing.  That is why I didn't get into it any further.  I'm objecting to the idea that because you post something online and let people know about it, you are automatically giving up control of that picture.  That's not true. Tagging someone in a photo does not give someone the "right" to use that photo in any manner that they chose.  You (general) may not care about how your photos are used when you upload them to a website, however, that doesn't mean that someone has the "right" to use them in any way they want to.

OP has already said that she doesn't want to go through the hassle of contacting people to ask them to give her credit, nor does she want to watermark them.  However, because of this, she can't expect people to automatically know that she wants credit for taking the pictures that they are sharing with others.

Also, just because I don't post any pictures without a watermark doesn't mean that I think people who do are wrong.  I am fully aware of the fact that most people assume that anything they see online is free to use in any way that they want or that there is no need to give credit.  I also know that there are a lot of  people who are happy to share their pictures with friends, family, and acquaintances without any thought of credit or legalities.  But if more people were aware of the fact that you should attribute credit to pictures you share, maybe the OP wouldn't have posted.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: sammycat on June 09, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
I don't think the photographer was looking for praise, just the recognition that SHE took the picture. 

Yes, someone posted the words "good picture" on it on the other woman's page.  What a golden opportunity for the reposting person to acknowledge that and say, " I agree it's a great picture.  Soandso took it."

Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.
  It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.

I totally agree. On the rare occasions I've shared someone else's picture on acebook, I always write 'thanks to Jane Doe for taking and sharing!'. It's a case of simple being honest (that I didn't take it) and doing the right thing (giving credit where credit is due).

I also belong to an online site devoted to a particular topic. When we post videos/picture that other people have taken the  number one rule is that we MUST cite/credit the source.

Tagging someone in a photo does not give someone the "right" to use that photo in any manner that they chose.  You (general) may not care about how your photos are used when you upload them to a website, however, that doesn't mean that someone has the "right" to use them in any way they want to.

Agree again.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: EMuir on June 09, 2013, 05:43:40 PM
I think your best bet is to put "Photo by..." on each photo as a watermark.

I really don't think anyone did anything wrong here.  If you put a photo where others can see it, as long as they aren't selling it, they can do what they like with it unless you've specified otherwise.  If you don't want your photos used by others, don't post them on your Facebook, or anywhere on the internet.  It's the reality we live in nowadays.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Roe on June 09, 2013, 05:44:34 PM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I see nothing wrong with what the mom did.  You tagged them thereby giving them permission to use the pictures.  Unless you are a professional photographer who took professional photos and didn't get paid, I don't think you have much complaint. 

tagging is not giving permission to use the pictures.  She doesn't have to be a "professional" to get credit for taking the picture.

Tagging is not sharing?  I disagree. Once you post a picture on FB, its really difficult to control how people use it. The mom used a pic, that she was tagged on, as her cover photo. I see nothing wrong with it.

What kind of credit did OP want?  Money? Recognition? Seems a little self involved if she's annoyed simply because she didn't get any praise for a good picture. Someone out there posted "good picture." That's praise. Why isn't that enough?

Because it's a legal thing, not a social thing

I appreciate your pov. I just don't agree with it.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: kckgirl on June 09, 2013, 07:09:22 PM
Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.   It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.

I completely disagree with this. When I post pictures that I took, I don't imply that I did. When others post pictures that I took, they don't imply that they did. Unless you're using Facebook differently than everybody I know, nobody implies anything.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: WillyNilly on June 09, 2013, 07:24:22 PM
Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.   It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.

You know it depends on what the compliment was of really. If it was of the photograph itself, in an artist sense - great lighting, framing, timing, etc ok the compliment does belong to the photographer, something like "wow, great shot!" But if the compliment was about the subject of the photo - that the person looked beautiful, or "congrats on the winning dunk!" or whatever - the compliment doesn't belong necessarily to the photographer. The intellectual rights might be a legal thing, but a compliment is subjective.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: gramma dishes on June 09, 2013, 08:33:32 PM
That's true.  I was under the impression that the person meant it was a good picture, but your alternate interpretation is certainly equally possible. 
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: BigBadBetty on June 09, 2013, 09:27:50 PM
Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.   It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.

I completely disagree with this. When I post pictures that I took, I don't imply that I did. When others post pictures that I took, they don't imply that they did. Unless you're using Facebook differently than everybody I know, nobody implies anything.

I'm glad I am not the only one who feels this way. In my group of friends, posting a photo has no implication that the poster is the photographer. My friend Kate just posted 5 photos. I know for a fact that she did not take them since she is in them. She didn't credit the photographer. That is how most of the people in my group do it. My three friends who are professional photographers watermark their photos. I would never try to remove their watermarks. It never occurred to me that I would credit the person who took it. I usually hit the share button so the name of the original poster shows, but the original poster may or may not be the photographer.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: TootsNYC on June 09, 2013, 09:38:41 PM
I feel like I live in a different world than a lot of you.  Everyone I know shares other people's photos all the time on Facebook, and none of us care. 

In fact, I almost expect people to take my photos sometimes.   Multiple relatives get photos of my children that way, they save and print them from my facebook page, and I see them later framed in their homes.  I shared them for the actual purpose of sharing them, so why would that bother me?  And if they want to re-post them on their wall saying "look at my cute nephew" or whatever, I expect that to happen on Facebook.  It's a medium I use for that purpose, to share photos of my kids for other family to enjoy.  It has never occurred to me to need credit for taking the photo in question.  I just don't relate to this.

That's what the "share" button is for.  It allows FB users to share other people's photos while still showing who the original photographer was/is.  I like using the share button.  It's a lot easier than downloading and then uploading the same picture again.

And in fact, if I read the OP right, she'd have had no problem with the woman's using the "share" button. But she downloaded the pic and then uploaded it again so that it looks as if SHE took the photo.


And that might have been a bit forgivable, except for the bolded below:

Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.   It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.

I completely disagree with this. When I post pictures that I took, I don't imply that I did. When others post pictures that I took, they don't imply that they did. Unless you're using Facebook differently than everybody I know, nobody implies anything.

THAT is where the woman was wrong. However, I think the OP should have immediately commented and said, "Thanks! That's one of mine. WomanWhosePageItIs got it from my Facebook album."

It's not the *posting* of the photo; that's minorly bad, especially since she DID have the option to SHARE it. What makes it really bad is that she didn't come back and acknowledge that the compliment wasn't hers to receive.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Roe on June 09, 2013, 09:47:52 PM
Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.   It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.

I completely disagree with this. When I post pictures that I took, I don't imply that I did. When others post pictures that I took, they don't imply that they did. Unless you're using Facebook differently than everybody I know, nobody implies anything.


My DH took a great picture of me and my children which I now use as my profile pic.  I didn't "credit" my DH with taking the picture.  Was I rude? He doesn't think so.  Also, it's obvious in the pic that I didn't take the picture as I have my arms around my children. 

With the amount of pictures being shared on FB, I think it's pretty silly to assume that every picture you post or share is taken by "you" unless otherwise credited.  At least, that's not the way I use FB and neither do my friends.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Mrs. Tilney on June 10, 2013, 08:55:47 PM
I am wondering if the photographers in the his thread would be upset if someone took a picture that they had posted on Facebook, printed it out and displayed it in their home, or mailed it to relatives or used it as a Christmas card. Credit is stripped in that case as well. Would that be considered the same thing?

When I got my parents' Christmas letter last year, I discovered they included a picture of me that they had taken from my Facebook page. (Taken by a friend, with my camera.) Totally fine with me--it was a cute picture.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: miranova on June 11, 2013, 11:20:07 AM
Instead, by saying nothing, she implied that she took the picture herself and therefore credit for the picture (and the compliment) belonged to HER.   It was one of those 'lies by omission' that are not looked upon kindly by serious  photographers whether they're amateur or professional.  It's dishonest.

I completely disagree with this. When I post pictures that I took, I don't imply that I did. When others post pictures that I took, they don't imply that they did. Unless you're using Facebook differently than everybody I know, nobody implies anything.

I'm glad I am not the only one who feels this way. In my group of friends, posting a photo has no implication that the poster is the photographer.

Exactly. 

Why the assumption that the poster of the photo is "implying" anything?  Simply posting a photo is NOT an implication about who took the photo.  People are making a lot of uncharitable assumptions here.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: GrammarNerd on June 11, 2013, 06:57:15 PM
I don't understand what kind of 'credit' you wanted?  Glowing compliments?  Did you even have permission to post pictures of her daughters on FB? 

I covered this in post #12 when I clarified:

Quote
"It's a fine line, I think.  I don't necessarily want all of this praise or credit or glowing theatrical comments about my awesome photography skills.  But it annoyed me that it was reposted RIGHT AWAY and there was NO mention at all that even someone else took the picture.  Not even a 'thanks to the mom who took the picture...you know who you are!' or something like that.  (And that would have been fine.)"

I think it's obvious that people are in one of two camps on this.  I guess it's an 'agree to disagree' type of situation, somewhat affected by the level of friendship (or the relationship) or the dynamic of the friendship or family group.  Frankly, I'm surprised this thread is still getting responses!  I'll say it again, perhaps paraphrased in a different way: What irked me about the original situation wasn't that she used the picture.  It was the manner in which she used it, with the copying it and posting it to her own wall, and never saying that someone else (she wouldn't have even had to name me by name) took the picture, even after two separate people commented things like 'great shot!'.

And one other "interesting" thing: someone had a video of her same daughter doing another sport.  It was posted to youtube.  She put a link to the video on her wall, and said that 'one of the dads on the team made this video'.  So she didn't have a problem saying that someone else made the video even though she couldn't reference that the photo was taken by someone else.  I just rolled my eyes when I saw that.   ::)
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Lynn2000 on June 12, 2013, 09:49:39 AM
I feel like there are definitely people coming from two different perspectives here, but I've not noticed anyone saying they don't think the original photographer deserves credit, or that they wouldn't credit someone who asked them to. It's just that Camp A seems to think about credit right away, and Camp B doesn't.

As a member of Camp B, I might not automatically remember/think to credit the original photographer, but I would happily do so if they made a polite comment about it. A member of Camp A can certainly say they refuse to remind Camp B people about credit and simply let it negatively affect their relationship with them, if they so choose, but that doesn't seem to be a very productive choice, IMO.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 12, 2013, 11:50:51 AM
I feel like there are definitely people coming from two different perspectives here, but I've not noticed anyone saying they don't think the original photographer deserves credit, or that they wouldn't credit someone who asked them to. It's just that Camp A seems to think about credit right away, and Camp B doesn't.

As a member of Camp B, I might not automatically remember/think to credit the original photographer, but I would happily do so if they made a polite comment about it. A member of Camp A can certainly say they refuse to remind Camp B people about credit and simply let it negatively affect their relationship with them, if they so choose, but that doesn't seem to be a very productive choice, IMO.

As a firm member of Camp A I agree with you.  I believe that if credit is important, then it's on me to let people know that info upfront or with a gentle reminder.  I don't think you can have it both ways
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: Camarynne on June 14, 2013, 01:14:09 AM
For many months I lived in a place where my only internet access was a phone with limited web access. Not a smartphone. I could see FB, and I could save pictures and upload them to my account but I could Not "share" them. That option simply didn't exist.  Could be something like that perhaps.
Title: Re: Appropriating a picture on FB
Post by: BigBadBetty on June 14, 2013, 10:31:21 AM
For many months I lived in a place where my only internet access was a phone with limited web access. Not a smartphone. I could see FB, and I could save pictures and upload them to my account but I could Not "share" them. That option simply didn't exist.  Could be something like that perhaps.

My friend had a smartphone, but she had the same issue. Everything came from mobile uploads. About a year ago, there was some update to her phone that allowed her to share. I also notice that sometimes when I share, Facebook doesn't list the source. Of course, there is the whole other issue that some people don't want to be listed as the source. They would rather have their privacy. I don't think you can ever please everyone.