Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: LilacGirl1983 on May 20, 2013, 07:10:16 AM

Title: not counted as contact?
Post by: LilacGirl1983 on May 20, 2013, 07:10:16 AM
Hey everyone I was wondering your input. On Saturday before mother's day my daughter (5) and I made a email card..ie we found the picture, typed the words and said it was from the family and emailed it off to my mom.

Well she called me after mother's day to inquire what I did then said I didn't contact her.  I told her we sent and email card..well I guess that wasn't good enough. She says she didn't count that as contact and she didn't count that as card or call. And my Bro called and they were going to hang out but she was busy and ran out of time. Well I told her sorry she didn't consider it contact but we made the card with her in mind and we went on to other topics. But that seemed to be the main point of the conversation :/ So ladies is it not counted as contact?
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: oogyda on May 20, 2013, 07:16:15 AM

:/ So ladies is it not counted as contact?


Whether we think it's contact or not doesn't matter.  The fact that she doesn't think it's contact is important. 

The prevailing theory is to be grateful for whatever "gift" one might receive, say "Thank you" and get over it.  I have to admit I'd be disappointed at an e-card being the only *contact* for Mother's Day.  Every family is different, but a quick phone call is the norm for us.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Harriet Jones on May 20, 2013, 07:21:48 AM
While I would count it as contact, I'm not a fan of e-cards, since they still pop up as phishing scams sometimes.  I'd rather have a personal email.

ETA: And what the PP said - your mom doesn't feel it is, so it isn't, *for her*.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Zilla on May 20, 2013, 07:35:20 AM
The point is moot askng others as they aren't your mom.  She thinks it isn't and no number of internet strangers will convince her otherwise.  Now was it rude to do the ecard? Not at all.  But to send another after she told you, a tad.

Would you be alright with an ecard for your birthday from her out of curiosity?
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Promise on May 20, 2013, 09:01:35 AM
Technically it is contact, but honestly, as a mom, I would be hurt. It is called MOTHER'S DAY! I don't know of one.single.mother who wouldn't want that phone call or visit over a card or even less thoughtful, an e-mail card. The message that is sent is this, "I don't care enough about you to go to a store, spend some of my money on a real card to send to you. I don't even think enough of you to take 15 minutes to have a phone call conversation with you. Instead, I'll do the least I can and create an e-mail card and pretend that I cared." While this may sound harsh, it's how it will be taken. While you may not like the holiday, it is still a part of our culture and culturally we are 'obligated' to reach out to our mothers. You don't have to. But if you don't, you get pushback, as you have experienced. Look, it's time to not be selfish and just do what you know the other person would really like on a day like this. They want a personal contact.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Shoo on May 20, 2013, 09:02:38 AM
I think what your mom may be objecting to is the absolute minimal effort sending an ecard requires.  You don't even have to leave your house.  You don't even have to take your own picture.  You just fill in some blanks and hit the send button.  As a mother, I'd definitely rather receive a phone call than an ecard any day.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: learningtofly on May 20, 2013, 09:10:55 AM
I've been there.  You know Mother's Day is coming, but it's one of those weeks where you haven't been near a grocery store so you haven't been near a car let alone a mailbox.  So instead of a handwritten card you have a grandchild make up something on the computer.  In my opinion this is even harder to do with small children and short attention spans.  At least time was spent producing something for Grandma and time was spent thinking about her on this special day.  I think it counts as contact, but I'm not sure my Mom would like it either.

This year we made her a present and since she's coming to visit in a few weeks she's getting it then.  It's hard to know with a different generation where the line is.  Do you do something on time that they don't like, or send a paper card but it arrives late?  You tried.  Next time they'll get cards in the mail at some point I guess.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Margo on May 20, 2013, 09:14:19 AM
Yes, it's contact, but I can understand where your Mom was coming from. An e-card feels much less personal - you can't display it the way you can a real card, you don't get the interaction and personal contact you do with a phone call or visit, so you end up with the worst of both worlds, as it were. Also, they  can come across as very generic and impersonal.

 It sounds as though you were able to make the point that you had made the card with her in mind.

It sounds as though your Mom was a bit rude in how she let you know she was disappointed, but I can understand why she felt that way, and now that you know, I think it would be nice if you were to  get a physical card and mail it, or to phone her, for future events. (even if this means designing it, or helping your daughter to design it, on the computer, and then printing it off for her to send!)

I think if you plan to send something only electronically, a personal e-mail is often better than an e-mail, as it is more obviously personal.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: m2kbug on May 20, 2013, 09:20:08 AM
Considering the generation, I would not expect email to be counted as contact.  I have a hard time myself considering email or e-card as contact.  It feels less personal.  Voices and face-to-face or a snail mail card is counted as contact.  Our kids' generation might see this differently, and you, but consider your intended recipient on this.  You did send an e-card and thought of mom, so yes, it is contact, but perhaps not the best route.  I'm thinking you should have called.  Your mom could have called you too, to wish you a happy Mother's Day. 
 
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: jaxsue on May 20, 2013, 09:22:03 AM
I've been there.  You know Mother's Day is coming, but it's one of those weeks where you haven't been near a grocery store so you haven't been near a car let alone a mailbox. So instead of a handwritten card you have a grandchild make up something on the computer.  In my opinion this is even harder to do with small children and short attention spans.  At least time was spent producing something for Grandma and time was spent thinking about her on this special day.  I think it counts as contact, but I'm not sure my Mom would like it either.

This year we made her a present and since she's coming to visit in a few weeks she's getting it then.  It's hard to know with a different generation where the line is.  Do you do something on time that they don't like, or send a paper card but it arrives late?  You tried.  Next time they'll get cards in the mail at some point I guess.

Per the bolded: I understand what you're saying, but I kind of see the mom's point. I like a phone call at least near Mother's Day.

I didn't have a real MD card to send my mom this year. I'm still recovering from a badly-broken ankle and getting out isn't easy. What I did was take generic stationary and wrote my mom a nice letter. I don't have to walk or drive it to the post office - all I have to do is put it in my mailbox and put up the flag. The mail carrier picks it up. I realize not everyone has this option, but I think most in the US do.

General comment: something I've done to be ready for these "oops, I almost forgot!" events: buying cards ahead of time. I have a stash of cards for several occasions. And when it comes to kids, how about having them draw a picture? Those are things parents treasure.

I think that, outside of things that truly make it impossible, it is nice to call your parents on MD/FD. You don't have to leave home to do it. While I appreciate e-cards, they just don't seem as personal as other forms of communication.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Cami on May 20, 2013, 09:27:19 AM
I would be very disappointed if all I heard from my daughter and granddaughter on Mother's Day was an e-card. It's just so bare minimum and cursory that it would give me the feeling that I didn't rate highly enough to even get a phone call or a "real" card. And I can tell you that my mother and grandmother would have been deeply hurt as neither would have considered an e-card to be a "real" card -- plus they both liked to display and keep their cards.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: jaxsue on May 20, 2013, 09:30:33 AM
I would be very disappointed if all I heard from my daughter and granddaughter on Mother's Day was an e-card. It's just so bare minimum and cursory that it would give me the feeling that I didn't rate highly enough to even get a phone call or a "real" card. And I can tell you that my mother and grandmother would have been deeply hurt as neither would have considered an e-card to be a "real" card -- plus they both liked to display and keep their cards.

I have kept every card my boys have given me. I treasure them!
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: lowspark on May 20, 2013, 09:31:23 AM
To be honest, if all I got from my kids was an ecard, I'd be pretty disappointed. When they were away at school, they always called on Mother's Day. It was just a quick call, a greeting and some minimal conversation (since they were entrenched in studying for finals) and that's it. It's just nice to know they were thinking about me that day.

An ecard in addition to this would be nice but not something that would mean a whole lot to me. A physical card, again, nice, but not required. I'm all about personal contact so getting together with my kids if they are in the same city, or a phone call if they're not, is what I consider to be meaningful on those special occasions.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Donovan on May 20, 2013, 09:34:01 AM
I don't even open email cards anymore, I've had bad luck with them infecting my computer. 
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: thedudeabides on May 20, 2013, 09:50:37 AM
I'm no lady, but if you normally talk to your mom often for regular things, then I think an e-card was a cop-out - at least pick up the phone.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: amylouky on May 20, 2013, 09:58:28 AM
I have to agree with pps, I don't think an email card for Mother's Day is enough. I know all families and mother/daughter relationships are different, but there's no way that would fly with either my mom or MIL. Actually, since they both live in town, there's no way I could get away with even just mailing a card/gift, they would both be very hurt if we didn't go see them and spend time with them on MD.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Hmmmmm on May 20, 2013, 10:02:46 AM
I'm fine with e-cards from my sister's or friends for bdays as I don't expect much acknowledgement of my bday's from them. To me an e-card equals a text or voicemail saying "Happy Birthday"; minimal effort and doesn't offer much opportunity for interaction. Actually a text or email has more opportunity for interaction since I'd have the opportunity to respond and hopefully get another response back.

As a mom, I would be dissapointed with an e-card "Happy Mother's Day". Though I'm not big into MDay presents, I would hope they'd have time at some point to pick up a phone and try and call me for some type of interaction.

But if you have minimal interaction with your mom, then I guess it would be appropriate in your family.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: StuffedGrapeLeaves on May 20, 2013, 10:07:24 AM
LilacGirl, aren't you the poster who has a difficult relationship with your mother?  If I remember correctly, nothing you do will make her happy.  So I think you just stop feeling guilty and live your life without pandering to your mother.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: TootsNYC on May 20, 2013, 10:10:52 AM
I wouldn't call it "contact," no.
Especially not for Mother's Day.

It's one-sided, and it's impersonal. I don't care if you did pick it out. I would far prefer to you to spend all that "time you spent picking it out" calling me on the phone and saying word to me about your life.

I don't want to a vague theory in my children's and grandchildren's lives.

Would I berate them? No. But honestly, a phone call is better.

(I also place a very low value on a written thank-you note, especially if it's not also a letter, and a very high value on a phone call.)
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Shoo on May 20, 2013, 11:34:10 AM
LilacGirl, aren't you the poster who has a difficult relationship with your mother?  If I remember correctly, nothing you do will make her happy.  So I think you just stop feeling guilty and live your life without pandering to your mother.

You think it's pandering to give her mother more than an ecard on Mother's Day?  If she has such a difficult relationship to start with, I would think this would only add to that.  It takes two, you know.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on May 20, 2013, 11:47:18 AM
I don't think it "counts" either.

I didn't get a card from any of my three sons.  But, each one of them called me to chat and wish me a happy mother's day.

My oldest, who works in restaurants pulled a 12+ hours shift that day but called me as soon as he got home.

I would have been disappointed to receive an email card i.l.o. a phone call.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Tea Drinker on May 20, 2013, 11:52:48 AM
There are no right answers to the wrong questions. Unless we're discussing an explicit no-contact request or restraining order (which is what I expected from the subject line), it's not "is that contact?"

The problem is that your mother wants one of two things--a physical card or a phone call--and didn't get them. Someone else would be happy with an ecard or an emailed note; yet another person wouldn't be satisfied unless she got flowers and/or an in-person visit.

If it comes up again, the best approach might be to say "Sorry, Mom, I didn't realize it mattered to have a physical card instead of an electronic one. I'll remember for next time." Then change the subject; if she were to harp on this for months, that would be a different shape of problem.

(As a side note, I could mail a hand-written card for mother's day or a birthday without leaving my apartment building: I have blank cards, I have stamps, and I can mail a letter in the building lobby, so no need to put on a coat or go much further than I would to take out the trash. That doesn't mean the people I write to are being short-changed compared to if I had to go to the store and buy the card first.)
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: GSNW on May 20, 2013, 11:53:50 AM
I agree with PPs who say the e-card is not what *I* would deem a sufficient effort for Mother's Day.  Someone said that you need to consider the generation, and I think that is probably why I'm leaning this way.  I check my email every ten minutes, my mom, who is not yet 60, checks hers maybe every three or four days.  My grandma, don't even bother contacting her on email, by the time she finds it the email will be a month or two old.  YMMV.

I still think sending a card over snail mail indicates some forethought and interest in the occasion, far more than an e-card.  Even picking up the phone is preferable.  I think this can be compared to an email thank you versus an actual card. 

You can always bring it up with your mom again.  "Mom, I didn't realize sending an ecard would hurt your feelings, and I'm sorry they were hurt.  What can I do in the future to show my appreciation?"  If she says send a card, send a card.  If she says call, call.  If she says send a marching band and give her a pony ride, well, I'm afraid that won't be possible.  But if your goal is to show her you care, then ask her how you can best send that message within your abilities.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on May 20, 2013, 12:42:02 PM
I think the reason that an ecard seems insufficient is because its not really real.

A real card is a real thing that can be displayed on a bed table. An ecard is only there on you computer screen.

When my husband gives me a card, I might even carry it around in my purse for a while or put it on my nightstand to remind me  of his  thoughtfulness.  I love seeing his signed name on it...

A mother's day card that my middle son made for me two or three years ago is still on the fridge!  It's really funny!  He took a piture of one of our dogs and labeled all of his parts with funny names like "pully tail," "fold up arm," "juicy leg" and indicated the full length of the dog as "storage."

The names of the parts were all pet names the kids would use when petting the dogs--kind of a fun thing.  Sometimes they would incorporate them into a song!

So, having that printout on the fridge is a reminder of all of those things including that my son thought of me that mother's day.

Even my other sons who have seen it think its humorous and joke that he "won" that year for bet card.

I love keeping the things my sons give me.  I got a cheesy Christmas card from my oldest son once that had the sweetest message inside.  It was a heartfelt thank you to my husband and me for always being there for him, for encoraging him and an acknowledgement for all that we ever did for him.  I was really nice and I still have it!

An ecard just really isn'the the same.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: StuffedGrapeLeaves on May 20, 2013, 01:31:51 PM
LilacGirl, aren't you the poster who has a difficult relationship with your mother?  If I remember correctly, nothing you do will make her happy.  So I think you just stop feeling guilty and live your life without pandering to your mother.

You think it's pandering to give her mother more than an ecard on Mother's Day?  If she has such a difficult relationship to start with, I would think this would only add to that.  It takes two, you know.

If I am remembering correctly, LilacGirl's mom is the type who would never be happy no matter what she does, and who tramples boundaries all over the place.  In a normal relationship, I would agree that an e-card is not enough.  However, in this particular situation, it may not be that her mom has a problem with an e-card, per se, but that nothing LilacGirl does will ever be good enough.  So this is just another ammunition for her mom to guilt-trip LilacGirl endlessly.  I just don't think the offense is bad enough to justify LilacGirl questioning her boundaries with her mom. 
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: miranova on May 20, 2013, 01:43:18 PM
I'm surprised this has not been brought up but....what does your mother do for you on your birthday and/or Christmas?

My mother doesn't even call me on my birthday, let alone send a card or gift or visit me. 

So on Mother's Day I surely am not going out of my way for her.  I acknowledge the holiday with a small gift sent in the mail.  Usually some photo gift of her grandkids, with a Happy Mother's Day note attached.  I do not call her. 

Judge me if you want, but I hear from her maybe twice a year on the phone, and we are both adults.  If she is not going to put in effort, then she can't expect it in return.  Adult relationships, even those with family, need to be reciprocal. 
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: lowspark on May 20, 2013, 01:46:52 PM
Yeah but, in this case at least, most of us feel that the mother was not out of line to be unhappy with what LilacGirl did. Now, if the situation is that LG feels that no matter what she does it isn't enough, and therefore chooses to do the least possible because, after all, why bother, well, then, that's her choice and it could very well be the right choice for her.

However, that's not how the question was put. There was no mention of a toxic re-lationship. Just the question of whether or not an ecard was sufficient for Mother's Day and most of us say it's not.

ETA: In other words, based on how the question was worded I assumed a normal parent-child re-lationship. If it is otherwise and LG wants us to base our responses on her specific situation, then all that should probably be put into the OP.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: snowdragon on May 20, 2013, 02:00:40 PM
I agree with the PP's not really a good thing for Mom's day.

What I would suggest is having your daughter make a card with you next year and send it off.  Not much more effort, and a LOT more personal :)
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: miranova on May 20, 2013, 02:03:42 PM
Well, that's why I asked.  I agree an e-card is not enough for a normal mother-child relationship.

My dh does not have a warm, loving relationship with his mother but I wouldn't call it toxic exactly either.  He calls her on Mother's Day 100% out of obligation.  He called this last Mother's Day and got voicemail. He left a nice message.  His phone was nearby in case she called back.  She called several days later and said she had just gotten his message and felt a little "cheated" out of her Mother's Day call.  Apparently, he should have kept trying?  This is when things stop being gifts and start feeling like work, when they are not appreciated as the gifts that they are.  I know that if this happens over time, it tends to make people want to do less and less.  (By the way we also sent her a small gift in addition to the phone call).  I don't blame the mother in the OP for being a little hurt, assuming no toxicity, but the best way to make sure you don't get much in the future is to not thank the giver for the gift that they DID give.  I think she should have thanked the OP sincerely for the thoughtful card, instead of saying it "didn't count".  When someone appreciates what I give them, I am more inclined in the future to give even more.

This past Mother's Day I actually spent time with my youngish children explaining to them that once they had wives and young children, the Mother's Day focus should shift to their wives who are doing the "in the trenches" work of mothering young children.  I told them I'd be happy to hear from them but their real job at that point is honoring the mothers who still have young ones and probably don't get much of a break. 

I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: TootsNYC on May 20, 2013, 02:08:28 PM
I'm surprised this has not been brought up but....what does your mother do for you on your birthday and/or Christmas?

My mother doesn't even call me on my birthday, let alone send a card or gift or visit me. 

So on Mother's Day I surely am not going out of my way for her.  I acknowledge the holiday with a small gift sent in the mail.  Usually some photo gift of her grandkids, with a Happy Mother's Day note attached.  I do not call her. 

Judge me if you want, but I hear from her maybe twice a year on the phone, and we are both adults.  If she is not going to put in effort, then she can't expect it in return.  Adult relationships, even those with family, need to be reciprocal.

Yes, but your mother isn't complaining to you--is she?

Your MIL is not acting appropriately if she is complaining in the situation you describe. But does she feel cheated by DH? Or does she just feel cheated by circumstances, and your DH is the one putting it all on his own shoulders?

Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: miranova on May 20, 2013, 02:26:40 PM
I'm surprised this has not been brought up but....what does your mother do for you on your birthday and/or Christmas?

My mother doesn't even call me on my birthday, let alone send a card or gift or visit me. 

So on Mother's Day I surely am not going out of my way for her.  I acknowledge the holiday with a small gift sent in the mail.  Usually some photo gift of her grandkids, with a Happy Mother's Day note attached.  I do not call her. 

Judge me if you want, but I hear from her maybe twice a year on the phone, and we are both adults.  If she is not going to put in effort, then she can't expect it in return.  Adult relationships, even those with family, need to be reciprocal.

Yes, but your mother isn't complaining to you--is she?

Your MIL is not acting appropriately if she is complaining in the situation you describe. But does she feel cheated by DH? Or does she just feel cheated by circumstances, and your DH is the one putting it all on his own shoulders?

I think it was eyeroll worthy for her to even bring up the fact that she felt cheated.  The effort was made, and she didn't check her messages for two full days, which is her own fault.  My dh didn't really deserve any criticism. 

My mother used to make little passive agressive comments about how it "would be nice" to receive this and that from her children, which I ignored, since she hasn't acknowledged my birthday since I was 17.  And the year I turned 16, it was almost forgotten entirely.  So, in her way she has complained in the past, but I guess she stopped when it didn't get her what she wanted.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: *inviteseller on May 20, 2013, 03:00:43 PM
I might be a bit put off with an e card myself but I guess it depends on your relationship with your mom. 
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: lowspark on May 20, 2013, 03:31:42 PM
I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.

I guess I understand this point of view but I don't agree with it. No, the day shouldn't be "all about" either of the mothers specifically. If possible, it should be all about all of them. Now, again, this is all assuming normal re-lationships, reasonable proximity, etc.

If/when my children have children, I'll be thrilled and proud to share the holiday with my grandchildrens' mothers. I would not appreciate being told, in so many words, your day has passed, it's NewMom's turn now. Mother's day is about all mothers, not just those of children of a certain age.

By your "in the trenches" reasoning, once the kids are over a certain age, their mother really shouldn't expect much, if anything, for Mother's Day since she's not caring for small children anymore. My mother was my mother till the day she died my love and appreciation of her, instead of diminishing since I didn't depend on her 100% anymore, actually grew as I got older.

Sorry to derail, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: snowdragon on May 20, 2013, 03:39:01 PM
I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.

I guess I understand this point of view but I don't agree with it. No, the day shouldn't be "all about" either of the mothers specifically. If possible, it should be all about all of them. Now, again, this is all assuming normal re-lationships, reasonable proximity, etc.

If/when my children have children, I'll be thrilled and proud to share the holiday with my grandchildrens' mothers. I would not appreciate being told, in so many words, your day has passed, it's NewMom's turn now. Mother's day is about all mothers, not just those of children of a certain age.

By your "in the trenches" reasoning, once the kids are over a certain age, their mother really shouldn't expect much, if anything, for Mother's Day since she's not caring for small children anymore. My mother was my mother till the day she died my love and appreciation of her, instead of diminishing since I didn't depend on her 100% anymore, actually grew as I got older.

Sorry to derail, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about.


I'll take it further. It should be about those who take on a "Mothering Role" rather than those who actively have small kids.  People like that Aunt who put her life on hold to raise the kid that the birth giver mom had no time for, Should be celebrated. The neighbor who took in the kids everytime their real mom was out of town/withunclewhoever/nameyoursituationhere or anyone in a chlid's life who gave that kid a nurturing,loving relationship when mom could not/would not - should be celebrated.
   Motherhood does not end at a certain age, nor does it exist on;y because of legal/biological ties.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: that_one_girl on May 20, 2013, 03:41:55 PM
All I did for Mothers Day was send my mother a one sentence e-mail, but we don't get along very well at all.  She is constantly telling me that she just isn't capable of "being the mother I need" ... every time I reach out to her, she pushes me away, so a short e-mail is the best I could do.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: *inviteseller on May 20, 2013, 04:55:09 PM
Just because a child reaches adulthood means you cease to be their parent.  I need my dad today, at 47, as much as I did at 7, just in a different way.   If you have a toxic relationship with a parent, then you should not lower yourself to false platitude on mother's/father's day, but I don't agree that the only parents that should be feted are parents of young children.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: miranova on May 20, 2013, 05:20:29 PM
Just as I kind of knew it would, my comment is being twisted and taken completely out of context .  Of COURSE, no one should actually say to their mother "your time is over".  I never suggested anything of the kind!  I don't think people are going to understand my position if they are intent on changing it into something I never said nor suggested, but I'll try one more time.

I have watched as mothers of young children spend their entire Mother's Day honoring the matriarch of the family, while not ONE PERSON tells them happy Mother's Day or realizes that the day should also be about them.  I've seen it happen to several friends.  Do you know how many new mothers don't receive a single acknowledgement during what is arguably the hardest year of their mothering life because the child is too young to shop for them and the husband says "but you're not MY mother"?  I have heard if from many friends and find it ridiculous. 

Of course people should honor their mothers no matter what their age or stage of live, I never said otherwise.  I just think that the mothers of the older generation should be gracious and cede the most time and effort toward the generation with young children still at home and that they should do this voluntarily.  It is what I plan to do with my children.  I never said ANYTHING about the 20/30/40 somethings ignoring their own mothers.  Never.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Cami on May 20, 2013, 05:27:10 PM
I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.

I guess I understand this point of view but I don't agree with it. No, the day shouldn't be "all about" either of the mothers specifically. If possible, it should be all about all of them. Now, again, this is all assuming normal re-lationships, reasonable proximity, etc.

If/when my children have children, I'll be thrilled and proud to share the holiday with my grandchildrens' mothers. I would not appreciate being told, in so many words, your day has passed, it's NewMom's turn now. Mother's day is about all mothers, not just those of children of a certain age.

By your "in the trenches" reasoning, once the kids are over a certain age, their mother really shouldn't expect much, if anything, for Mother's Day since she's not caring for small children anymore. My mother was my mother till the day she died my love and appreciation of her, instead of diminishing since I didn't depend on her 100% anymore, actually grew as I got older.

Sorry to derail, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about.
I feel pretty strongly about it too. Especially since I'm finding the work of being a mother to a young adult trying to find her way in life as exhausting as when she was a small child. As an example, my Mother's Day call consisted of me trying to help her solve a life problem for nearly two hours and involving much tears on her end.  My days of being a mother are far from done.

I really resent the idea that just because my dd isn't a little kid any more, I don't deserve any respect or acknowledgement of my parenting now, or for the two decades of my life prior to this.  Good parenting is a gift that keeps on giving forever, which is a truth I know mostly from its absence since I did not have a great mother. I worked harder than anything else in my life on being a good mother.  I'm not expecting bended knee and a trip to the moon, but it's not too much to expect a five minute phone call on Mother's Day to acknowledge that gift.

Or as Shakespeare said, "How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child".
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: miranova on May 20, 2013, 05:33:59 PM
I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.

I guess I understand this point of view but I don't agree with it. No, the day shouldn't be "all about" either of the mothers specifically. If possible, it should be all about all of them. Now, again, this is all assuming normal re-lationships, reasonable proximity, etc.

If/when my children have children, I'll be thrilled and proud to share the holiday with my grandchildrens' mothers. I would not appreciate being told, in so many words, your day has passed, it's NewMom's turn now. Mother's day is about all mothers, not just those of children of a certain age.

By your "in the trenches" reasoning, once the kids are over a certain age, their mother really shouldn't expect much, if anything, for Mother's Day since she's not caring for small children anymore. My mother was my mother till the day she died my love and appreciation of her, instead of diminishing since I didn't depend on her 100% anymore, actually grew as I got older.

Sorry to derail, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about.

I really resent the idea that just because my dd isn't a little kid any more, I don't deserve any respect or acknowledgement of my parenting now, or for the two decades of my life prior to this. 

I'm not sure where you are getting that idea, but it is NOT from me.  I didn't say anything of the kind.  Please stop twisting my words.  It's not even twisting at this point, it's completely changing it to something I don't even remotely believe.  I'd appreciate you reading what I said more carefully and not attributing the idea that you don't deserve any respect to me.  I don't believe that and never said it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: oogyda on May 20, 2013, 05:45:50 PM
Miranova, I really do get what you're saying and so very much agree with it.  I posted much the same a couple of years ago, but can't find the post. 



 
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: JoieGirl7 on May 20, 2013, 05:46:47 PM
I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.

I guess I understand this point of view but I don't agree with it. No, the day shouldn't be "all about" either of the mothers specifically. If possible, it should be all about all of them. Now, again, this is all assuming normal re-lationships, reasonable proximity, etc.

If/when my children have children, I'll be thrilled and proud to share the holiday with my grandchildrens' mothers. I would not appreciate being told, in so many words, your day has passed, it's NewMom's turn now. Mother's day is about all mothers, not just those of children of a certain age.

By your "in the trenches" reasoning, once the kids are over a certain age, their mother really shouldn't expect much, if anything, for Mother's Day since she's not caring for small children anymore. My mother was my mother till the day she died my love and appreciation of her, instead of diminishing since I didn't depend on her 100% anymore, actually grew as I got older.

Sorry to derail, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about.

I really resent the idea that just because my dd isn't a little kid any more, I don't deserve any respect or acknowledgement of my parenting now, or for the two decades of my life prior to this. 

I'm not sure where you are getting that idea, but it is NOT from me.  I didn't say anything of the kind.  Please stop twisting my words.  It's not even twisting at this point, it's completely changing it to something I don't even remotely believe.  I'd appreciate you reading what I said more carefully and not attributing the idea that you don't deserve any respect to me.  I don't believe that and never said it.  Thanks.

You did...

"I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic."

You were totally endorsing the idea that Mother's Day should be about mothers who still have children at home and downplaying mothers in general.

If not, then what is it that you meant to say?
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Library Dragon on May 20, 2013, 05:48:31 PM
I'm going to completely different than most.  Unless my sons can find me a Star Trek Mother's Day card I would rather have an ecard created for me than one picked off the rack of the store. 99% of those cards are too generic to be meaningful.

I would consider it contact.
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Ms_Cellany on May 20, 2013, 05:51:38 PM
I'm going to completely different than most.  Unless my sons can find me a Star Trek Mother's Day card I would rather have an ecard created for me than one picked off the rack of the store. 99% of those cards are too generic to be meaningful.

I would consider it contact.

But not First Contact?
Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: miranova on May 20, 2013, 05:54:05 PM
I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.

I guess I understand this point of view but I don't agree with it. No, the day shouldn't be "all about" either of the mothers specifically. If possible, it should be all about all of them. Now, again, this is all assuming normal re-lationships, reasonable proximity, etc.

If/when my children have children, I'll be thrilled and proud to share the holiday with my grandchildrens' mothers. I would not appreciate being told, in so many words, your day has passed, it's NewMom's turn now. Mother's day is about all mothers, not just those of children of a certain age.

By your "in the trenches" reasoning, once the kids are over a certain age, their mother really shouldn't expect much, if anything, for Mother's Day since she's not caring for small children anymore. My mother was my mother till the day she died my love and appreciation of her, instead of diminishing since I didn't depend on her 100% anymore, actually grew as I got older.

Sorry to derail, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about.

I really resent the idea that just because my dd isn't a little kid any more, I don't deserve any respect or acknowledgement of my parenting now, or for the two decades of my life prior to this. 

I'm not sure where you are getting that idea, but it is NOT from me.  I didn't say anything of the kind.  Please stop twisting my words.  It's not even twisting at this point, it's completely changing it to something I don't even remotely believe.  I'd appreciate you reading what I said more carefully and not attributing the idea that you don't deserve any respect to me.  I don't believe that and never said it.  Thanks.

You did...

I don't get it when people who haven't had young children to care for in years expect the day to be ALL about them.  A card, phone call, yes all appropriate assuming no toxicity.  But most of the day should be spent, in my opinion, honoring mothers with children still in the home.  Just my opinion I know, and getting slightly off topic.

You were totally endorsing the idea that Mother's Day should be about mothers who still have children at home and downplaying mothers in general.


I meant to say what I said, which is not even in the same universe as "mothers with grown children don't deserve respect or acknowledgement" which is what was attributed to me.  If you still think I said that or "meant" or "endorsed" that, you are choosing to believe something opposite from what I am telling you I believe.  That is a gross twisting of my words and your insistence on what I "meant" even after I have clarified is mystifying to me.  I know what I believe and my words are still here in print.  I never said anything like that.

Title: Re: not counted as contact?
Post by: Wordgeek on May 20, 2013, 06:05:40 PM
Since the discussion has devolved into pointless sniping, thread closed.