Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: Iris on June 09, 2013, 06:18:12 PM

Title: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Iris on June 09, 2013, 06:18:12 PM
Without too many details I would like to know what I could have done/could do in this situation without being rude. I'm trying to just give the bare bones.

The situation was an informal get together with friends and friends-of-friends. The child in question was being tickled and had clearly told the person to stop. The parent in question did eventually say something (on about the fifth occurrence :-\). Also, the parent in question is supremely non-confrontational and would hate to make waves or have waves made.

My big problem was that the only thing I could think of to say was "Stop! Didn't you hear them tell you to stop! What the Ehell is WRONG with you! Leave them alone!" which kind of failed the non-wave-making criteria. I had actually decided that I was going to say that, and consequences be darned, if it happened again when the mother said something.

Is there something a bit less extreme that I could say if it happens again? I see this friend and f-o-f semi regularly and although this has never happened in my presence before my limit has been well and truly reached and I genuinely don't think I could watch this even one more time without intervening for the kid. Is this one occasion when I can forget manners or is that my teacher-ness skewing my view (it does sometimes, occupational hazard)?
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: AmethystAnne on June 09, 2013, 06:41:28 PM
"<Child's name> said stop. Now, please stop"

I view tickling beyond the "Stop!" as torture.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: nuit93 on June 09, 2013, 06:47:16 PM
The poor kid!

I think in a situation like that, it's okay to make a bit of a scene.  Children need to know that they do have the right to be safe in their bodies, and if their parent isn't reinforcing that then it's okay that you did.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: *inviteseller on June 09, 2013, 06:56:33 PM
My creep meter would be off the charts on this one.  Tickling is torture IMO, and I would not be able to hold my tongue wither.  The parent needs a spine to protect the child, but until they get there, I would say, the minute it starts "Tickling is not funny, stop it now" in a veryveryvery firm voice.  If they did it again, etiquette be darned I would remove the child myself from this person. 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: MrTango on June 09, 2013, 06:56:39 PM
Without too many details I would like to know what I could have done/could do in this situation without being rude. I'm trying to just give the bare bones.

The situation was an informal get together with friends and friends-of-friends. The child in question was being tickled and had clearly told the person to stop. The parent in question did eventually say something (on about the fifth occurrence :-\). Also, the parent in question is supremely non-confrontational and would hate to make waves or have waves made.

My big problem was that the only thing I could think of to say was "Stop! Didn't you hear them tell you to stop! What the Ehell is WRONG with you! Leave them alone!" which kind of failed the non-wave-making criteria. I had actually decided that I was going to say that, and consequences be darned, if it happened again when the mother said something.

Is there something a bit less extreme that I could say if it happens again? I see this friend and f-o-f semi regularly and although this has never happened in my presence before my limit has been well and truly reached and I genuinely don't think I could watch this even one more time without intervening for the kid. Is this one occasion when I can forget manners or is that my teacher-ness skewing my view (it does sometimes, occupational hazard)?

Make waves.  Lots of waves.

I remember one time when my sister was tickling a cousin to the point where the cousin was crying.  Sister wouldn't stop when cousin demanded it, and didn't even stop when grandma yelled for her to do so.  Finally, I grabbed a handful of Sister's hair and dragged her away from Cousin and dropped her at Grandma's feet (by this point, Grandma had already gone to get "the spoon")

It was bad enough that my sister got spanked by Grandma, but when my parents got back from their golf outing, my sister had to sit there and explain to my parents why a large chunk of her mid-back-length hair was gone.

ETA: This cousin is 3 years younger than me, and my sister is 3 years older than me.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: TootsNYC on June 09, 2013, 07:07:40 PM
Well, if you apply the "redirect" (what do you want TO happen instead of what do you want to STOP), you could say, "Child, come with me--let's go outside, I want to show you something in the backyard."

Or,"Hey, I get time with Child now--come over here, Child, I want to talk w/ you / read you a book / some other sort of activity."

Or you can say, "Hey, Tickler--that's pretty painful for Child."

I would probably also be inserting myself physically into the situation--sliding and arm between them, etc.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: kherbert05 on June 09, 2013, 07:17:12 PM
"<Child's name> said stop. Now, please stop"

I view tickling beyond the "Stop!" as torture.
POD except I would leave off the please. If that didn't make the person stop - I would get physically in between them. I admit I have issues with tickling. With me it triggers coughing fits and breathing problems, and I'm very likely to defend myself full on.

Depending on the relationship I had with the parents I might speak to them about the message being sent when the child says NO and a room full of trusted adults allows someone to keep hurting them.

I had a similar conversation with a good friend. She and her DH are youngest kids. At one point I found out they had a set of rules that were unfair.

1. Oldest wasn't allowed to tell youngest to do anything - That was being bossy
2. Oldest wasn't allowed to tattle unless youngest was in danger or drawing blood.

So youngest would go up and smack oldest - but not hard enough to bruise or draw blood. Oldest couldn't say stop oldest couldn't ask for help.

I looked my friend in the eye and said, "So you are telling your oldest a girl she has to tolerate her brother or any other kid hitting her as long as it doesn't leave a mark. Just sit there and take him touching/hitting her with no options" (she knows I was punished at school for being a tattletale when I reported being hit by bullies but not having a mark. I had marks, just not visible to lay people due to my skin condition. Doctor was ready to call CPS because of the injuries)

 
Light bulb went off. They started to define the difference between standing up for yourself and being bossy.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Iris on June 09, 2013, 07:36:13 PM
Thanks guys. My "don't make a scene" training was warring with my instinct to get this jerk to back off and I felt cripplingly awkward last night and horribly guilty this morning. Next time I'll just go right on ahead and make a scene if necessary.

I do know the mother doesn't like it but this particular group that she is in is so mired down by the Geek Social Fallacies that it's beyond a joke. After these replies my thoughts are as follows: As an adult it is her choice to remain friends with jerks. Doesn't mean I have to put up with watching a child be harassed as a 'joke' by a 'friend' without doing something.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Venus193 on June 09, 2013, 07:37:26 PM
Make a tidalwave over this one.  Now is not the time to be a "nice" girl.

I've always found tickling torturous in more ways that one.  I'd do whatever it took to stop that person.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: weeblewobble on June 09, 2013, 07:46:41 PM
I consider this abuse.  And in my opinion, this is a safety before etiquette issue.  If you are witnessing abuse, you consider etiquette and manners AFTER the child's physical and emotional well-being. You stop it IMMEDIATELY by any means necessary, even if means physically removing the person's hands from the child.

This sort of "covert abuse" is just as harmful as physical as it makes a child question whether they have the right to have boundaries.  I am a bit sensitive to the issue as this seemed to be a friend's parent's favorite form of humiliating her.  When we were kids, Tori's dad got into the habit of tickling her in a typical "joking around" manner at first, but then Tori would stop laughing and ask him to stop, he would tease her about "not being able to take it" and keep tickling until asking would turn to Tori BEGGING him to stop, and he continued to tickle her until she cried.  And then he would get mad and punish her for being a "drama queen" and a "baby" and tell her to grow up.  He would punish her for being upset by something that he did. Tori's mom just told Tori that her dad wouldn't tease her so much if she didn't react to it.

It was SO painful to watch, because it made Tori a) not trust her dad b) wonder what SHE did to deserve her dad's treatment c) doubt whether she had the right to tell someone not to touch her.  Her friends (myself included) telling him to stop did no good.  He would tell us to stop being disrespectful. The only thing that stopped it was when we were around 9 and her dad started the tickling in the middle of her birthday party*, tickling her well past her asking him to stop after she'd had cake and ice cream and she threw up all over him like that scene in "I Love You, Man". (Whited out for grossness.)

And even then, he fussed at her for being a drama queen. 

But he never tickled her again.

*Tori said he only did this in front of her friends.  It was a passive aggressive, "I'm going to embarrass you and put you in your place" gesture.  I think he wanted her to know that even if she was getting older, he was still in charge. 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: TootsNYC on June 09, 2013, 09:08:14 PM
Here's another thing perhaps we can all put in our toolkit.

You don't have to make a scene to intervene. Just don't yell. Don't accuse. Don't use words like "jerk."

You simply be "inexorable." So you say, "Tickler, that's pretty uncomfortable for Child. She's told you to stop already. You should listen to her wishes."

Feel free to throw out OTHER code words like, "She should have control over what happens to her body." "She deserves to have you respect her wishes." or even "It's important to teach children that they can tell an adult to stop touching their bodies, and that the adult should listen to them."

Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: NyaChan on June 09, 2013, 09:12:02 PM
If it were me, I'd just throw out a quick, "Hey, stop already.  She/he's had enough - listen to her/him,"  maybe with a hand on their shoulder to show that I'm willing to stop them if necessary.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: LeveeWoman on June 09, 2013, 09:16:49 PM
Using words to stop battery?
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: MrTango on June 09, 2013, 09:37:25 PM
Using words to stop battery?

As with any situation, a person should use the minimum force necessary to get the desired result.  If a barked "STOP" from a third-party gets the job done, then there is no need to use physical force.  In my story above, two adults had already given verbal orders to stop, so when I stepped in, I bypassed words and went straight to physical force.  Grabbing my sister's hair was very deliberate: it was the maximum amount of pain I could inflict without any significant risk of causing injury.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: MorgnsGrl on June 09, 2013, 09:38:29 PM
1. "Hey! Stop!"
2. Get up, physically insert self between child and adult until child has safely gotten away.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: RegionMom on June 09, 2013, 09:39:10 PM
Agxgressive Tickling  can lead to passively, accidentally, testing out and touching in private areas, and could lead to sexual exploring.
If an older person is doing that in public, what would they do in private alone with the child?

Respect the NO.


Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: gramma dishes on June 09, 2013, 10:03:04 PM
"She has asked you to stop.  She obviously doesn't like it.  She has the right to decide who can touch her and how.  You need to respect that she's told you to stop."

And if that doesn't work, I'd punch him.  Oh,  of course I meant to say I'd carefully try to steer the child away from him.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: delabela on June 09, 2013, 10:12:21 PM
This could be a person who (as obvious as it should be) doesn't understand all the negative ramifications of what they're doing. Any adult observing the situation could say something to the effect of "she said stop, so it's time to stop". 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Iris on June 09, 2013, 10:29:58 PM
I think delabela has it. My feeling is that the person just hasn't matured past that teenaged boy phase of 'You're laughing so you must like it'. My own experiences of horrible tickling were all teenaged boys who thought they were being funny and this is exactly what it reminds me of. Fortunately all of my friends actually matured into fine men, whereas this guy seems stuck at the adolescent phase.

FWIW the tickled child was a boy. I was keeping it gender neutral but I notice a lot of posters have assumed it was a girl.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 09, 2013, 10:44:47 PM
I think it was very disrespectful of the Tickler to persist, even after the child told him on multiple occasions to stop.

I also think you would have been completely justified at stepping in after the first or second time the child told him to stop. That includes physically inserting myself between the Tickler and child if necessary. 

If the child's parents get annoyed that you "interfered", that's too bad. Perhaps it'll make them think twice before passively standing there, saying nothing, while their child is clearly in discomfort.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: *inviteseller on June 09, 2013, 11:10:55 PM
Doesn't matter if it is a boy or a girl..stop means stop and an adult tickling a child like that has issues and I would be pulling back on any or all interactions with them.  I have to agree that it can be a precursor to something else that is not a pretty subject and as long as no adults step up or are passive in telling the bully/abuser to stop, they may be able to keep pushing the envelope.  I don't care if this adult is male or female, if the child is male or female..this just screams wrong loudly.  Thank you for wanting to step up and help this child.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: AngelBarchild on June 10, 2013, 01:27:43 AM
Agxgressive Tickling  can lead to passively, accidentally, testing out and touching in private areas, and could lead to sexual exploring.
If an older person is doing that in public, what would they do in private alone with the child?

Respect the NO.

That's one hell of an interesting assumption. I'll tell you what they are doing in private alone with the child. Nothing, because 99.9% of people are not child molesters, and 99.9% of people who tickle a child are not child molesters. Just don't make accusations like that.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: secretrebel on June 10, 2013, 04:23:44 AM
Agxgressive Tickling  can lead to passively, accidentally, testing out and touching in private areas, and could lead to sexual exploring.
If an older person is doing that in public, what would they do in private alone with the child?

Respect the NO.

That's one hell of an interesting assumption. I'll tell you what they are doing in private alone with the child. Nothing, because 99.9% of people are not child molesters, and 99.9% of people who tickle a child are not child molesters. Just don't make accusations like that.

And 1% are abusers looking for a child unable to defend themselves and who will not be defended by their parents.

RegionMom didn't say tickling is child abuse. She said that aggressive tickling can be a warning sign.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Wench on June 10, 2013, 05:21:30 AM
The other likely option is that the tickler will end up getting injured.  I HATE being tickled and one of my ex boyfriends tickled me and I struggled so much that he ended smacking his head against the wall.  In fairness it was like the OP situation he was a  teenage boy and generally was a nice person.  I doubt very much he would do the same thing now.

In the case of  this adult I think yelling at him would be acceptable and maybe having a word with the parents.  It is a form of abuse and someone could get hurt.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Sharnita on June 10, 2013, 06:34:17 AM
Agxgressive Tickling  can lead to passively, accidentally, testing out and touching in private areas, and could lead to sexual exploring.
If an older person is doing that in public, what would they do in private alone with the child?

Respect the NO.

That's one hell of an interesting assumption. I'll tell you what they are doing in private alone with the child. Nothing, because 99.9% of people are not child molesters, and 99.9% of people who tickle a child are not child molesters. Just don't make accusations like that.

And 1% are abusers looking for a child unable to defend themselves and who will not be defended by their parents.

RegionMom didn't say tickling is child abuse. She said that aggressive tickling can be a warning sign.

It was worded in a way that made implications about any adult who would tickle like that in public.  I do actually agree that it assumes way too much.  The tickling is unkind and inappropriate.  There are a variety of unkind/inappropriate behavior that adults might be commit in public but that are not signs they are doing any thing of a more heinous nature in private.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Redsoil on June 10, 2013, 07:20:38 AM
Walk up to the person doing the tickling, and say:  "Dude, not cool to push it.  He said stop.  You need to respect that."  (Use a hand on shoulder to emphasise, if you feel okay doing that.)

Then escalate as needed.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: lowspark on June 10, 2013, 08:00:24 AM
Well, if you apply the "redirect" (what do you want TO happen instead of what do you want to STOP), you could say, "Child, come with me--let's go outside, I want to show you something in the backyard."

Or,"Hey, I get time with Child now--come over here, Child, I want to talk w/ you / read you a book / some other sort of activity."

Or you can say, "Hey, Tickler--that's pretty painful for Child."

I would probably also be inserting myself physically into the situation--sliding and arm between them, etc.

This. Redirecting is what I was going to suggest. I probably would have said something like "Too much tickling can get very uncomfortable and it is certainly making me uncomfortable." I then would probably take the kid by the hand and lead him away while saying one of the things Toots suggested above, "Child, I want to show you something in the other room" or whatever.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Luci on June 10, 2013, 08:14:29 AM
I wouldn't use so many words. "Stop! You are torturing that child!" Firmly, as loudly as necessary. Emphasize every word. No 'please', no swearing. If it doesn't stop, physically intervene.

Walk up to the person doing the tickling, and say:  "Dude, not cool to push it.  He said stop.  You need to respect that."  (Use a hand on shoulder to emphasise, if you feel okay doing that.)

Then escalate as needed.

Then, after you have the abuser's attention, explain or redirect, or whatever other method you desire to use.

Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Venus193 on June 10, 2013, 08:22:27 AM
I like that, Luci45.  Simple, commanding, and telling it like it is.

Sometime back during the Roman Empire when I was a teen there was a piece of advice about what to do if someone started groping you in the subway or similar public place.  It advised that you get up or step away (as possible) and shout "Stop touching me, you disgusting pervert!"  This gets the attention of everyone present so the perv doesn't dare do that again.  Your advice should also accomplish this.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: amylouky on June 10, 2013, 09:22:18 AM
If it's a small enough child, and one you are close to, I'd probably go swoop them up and say something like, "Don't worry, I'll save you!".. and run off with them in a joking way. I don't think that  most adults who tickle children are perverts or child abusers, they just don't realize that just because the child is laughing doesn't mean they aren't uncomfortable with it.
If it's not someone I'm close to, or a larger child, I'd probably say something like, "Tickler, I don't think Child is really enjoying that. I know he's laughing but he's asked you to stop."
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: TootsNYC on June 10, 2013, 09:23:37 AM
Walk up to the person doing the tickling, and say:  "Dude, not cool to push it.  He said stop.  You need to respect that."  (Use a hand on shoulder to emphasise, if you feel okay doing that.)

Then escalate as needed.

I lije this too.

I think 'you are torturing that child!' and "STOP!" are actually going to make it less effective.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Shoo on June 10, 2013, 09:24:57 AM
1. "Hey! Stop!"
2. Get up, physically insert self between child and adult until child has safely gotten away.

This is what I would do.  I would put myself between the child and the adult.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: TootsNYC on June 10, 2013, 09:32:36 AM
I don't think that  most adults who tickle children are perverts or child abusers, they just don't realize that just because the child is laughing doesn't mean they aren't uncomfortable with it.
If it's not someone I'm close to, or a larger child, I'd probably say something like, "Tickler, I don't think Child is really enjoying that. I know he's laughing but he's asked you to stop."

I disagree with this a bit. It might be true in some instances.

But I also think that a high percentage of people who tickle a child who has said "stop" and has tried to get away are actually on a bit of a power trip.

Not necessarily most, but I think it's often part of the motivation, especially when it's going on long enough for an onlooker to be uncomfortable. Not necessarily in the most horrible definition of "power trip," but it's there even if only a small degree.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Calistoga on June 10, 2013, 09:42:32 AM
The tickling thing for me always depends on both body language and verbal cues. If a kid is slapping at your hands and saying "Stop, stop!", even if they are laughing their tiny heads off, you need to stop. If they say "Don't!" every time you touch them, you need to stop. If they say "Stop!!!" but run up and tickle you back, then they're probably fine with the game, but since they keep saying "Stop" you need to tell them to stop tickling you as well so they understand that the game doesn't continue because they seem uncomfortable with it. Kids need to know that "STOP!" means stop, no matter who says it.


Reminds me of a situation with one of my nieces. Her mom kept doing this weird fingers-in-the-face thing and my niece told her to stop because...well, she didn't want fingers in her face. Mom snapped "YOU DON'T TELL ME TO STOP!" at her!
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: cass2591 on June 10, 2013, 10:15:34 AM
Unfortunately the hyperbole about child abuse and molestation reappears rather than giving suggestions to the OP as to what she could say to the adults should she observe this behavior again.

Look, I strongly believe the adult should have stopped at the first no. I was extremely ticklish and I hated it. I think the parents should have stepped in because they should know when tickling has gone too far, and clearly it did with this kid.

If you can give advice pertaining to the OP's last paragraph, by all means post.. But please, enough of the fear mongering.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: RegionMom on June 10, 2013, 11:11:47 AM
Not trying to get this thread closed, but I was not fear-mongering; I was sharing what happened to me at age 13/14.

There were several of us at a relative's house, and three of us were tickle fighting, which led to hugging tightly, trying to get away (testing my strength)and wrestling.  It went on more than once, over several visits, and it finally became just the one older relative and me, alone, in a back room. 

And that was my first sexual experience.  Not rape, but definitely molestation.  I have only told two people before now-best friend, and DH.  Now, e-hell knows.

And it all began, in public, with family, in the open, with more than one person being tickled. 

If ONE person had asked, "hey, are you ok with that?  Time to cut it out, that's enough!  or, Dude, she said no more, please stop!"

Then maybe I would have not felt alone and confused and wondering what was he doing and why.  And, no, I never reported.  He is an older man now, and I considered telling his wife, but since I participated, I felt guilty.

It all started with a tickle.

Respect the NO.

Sorry, I have no advice.

 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Outdoor Girl on June 10, 2013, 11:16:10 AM
If it's a small enough child, and one you are close to, I'd probably go swoop them up and say something like, "Don't worry, I'll save you!".. and run off with them in a joking way. If it's not someone I'm close to, or a larger child, I'd probably say something like, "Tickler, I don't think Child is really enjoying that. I know he's laughing but he's asked you to stop."

I like this approach, OP, if you would be comfortable with these options.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: NyaChan on June 10, 2013, 11:16:45 AM
I still think that using a vocal objection coupled with physical movement to show both the adult and the child that you are willing to stop them physically would have a satisfactory result.  I would also suggest leading the child away to avoid any awkwardness or future talk about stopping the tickling.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Moray on June 10, 2013, 11:25:46 AM
If it's a small enough child, and one you are close to, I'd probably go swoop them up and say something like, "Don't worry, I'll save you!".. and run off with them in a joking way. If it's not someone I'm close to, or a larger child, I'd probably say something like, "Tickler, I don't think Child is really enjoying that. I know he's laughing but he's asked you to stop."

I like this approach, OP, if you would be comfortable with these options.

I like this, too.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: cass2591 on June 10, 2013, 03:53:44 PM
Not trying to get this thread closed, but I was not fear-mongering; I was sharing what happened to me at age 13/14.

There were several of us at a relative's house, and three of us were tickle fighting, which led to hugging tightly, trying to get away (testing my strength)and wrestling.  It went on more than once, over several visits, and it finally became just the one older relative and me, alone, in a back room. 

And that was my first sexual experience.  Not rape, but definitely molestation.  I have only told two people before now-best friend, and DH.  Now, e-hell knows.

And it all began, in public, with family, in the open, with more than one person being tickled. 

If ONE person had asked, "hey, are you ok with that?  Time to cut it out, that's enough!  or, Dude, she said no more, please stop!"

Then maybe I would have not felt alone and confused and wondering what was he doing and why.  And, no, I never reported.  He is an older man now, and I considered telling his wife, but since I participated, I felt guilty.

It all started with a tickle.

Respect the NO.

Sorry, I have no advice.


I'm sorry that happened but the admonition applies to everyone.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: hobish on June 10, 2013, 04:19:23 PM
If it's a small enough child, and one you are close to, I'd probably go swoop them up and say something like, "Don't worry, I'll save you!".. and run off with them in a joking way. If it's not someone I'm close to, or a larger child, I'd probably say something like, "Tickler, I don't think Child is really enjoying that. I know he's laughing but he's asked you to stop."

I like this approach, OP, if you would be comfortable with these options.

I like this, too.

I like that, too.

…and I am sure everyone who is recommending telling the adult they are torturing a child and teaching the kid to not respect boundaries would also take the next necessary step and teach the kid that No means No and Stop means Stop. You would, of course, let them know that screeching “Stop, No, Stop” and letting Aunt Ticklish get yelled at for not listening, and then hopping up for more tickle time is inappropriate, right?

Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: magician5 on June 10, 2013, 05:07:37 PM
Entirely aside from abusers - the few instances I remember from my childhood led me to reason that "I can't trust anyone to help me, so I guess the only one I can trust is myself." Which sounds like it might (in some movie) be the watchword for a heroically self-reliant adult, but for me it let me lead myself straight into trouble.

Somewhere in my career I chanced upon a surprisingly effective line to stop objectionable activity quickly: assume that you're in charge and say "we're not going to do that." Maybe it works, at least for me, because it doesn't challenge the wrongdoer to prove you wrong.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Softly Spoken on June 11, 2013, 11:48:57 AM
Entirely aside from abusers - the few instances I remember from my childhood led me to reason that "I can't trust anyone to help me, so I guess the only one I can trust is myself." Which sounds like it might (in some movie) be the watchword for a heroically self-reliant adult, but for me it let me lead myself straight into trouble.

Somewhere in my career I chanced upon a surprisingly effective line to stop objectionable activity quickly: assume that you're in charge and say "we're not going to do that." Maybe it works, at least for me, because it doesn't challenge the wrongdoer to prove you wrong.

Wow I really like that. Usually telling instead of asking would be considered rude, but this is an awesome exception! This is the difference between being bossy/SS and having boundaries and a polite spine. The tickling being stopped shouldn't be up for debate so one shouldn't ask the tickler to stop - they tell them in no uncertain terms because the child cannot and needs and advocate. Even if the parent (for some insane reason) was okay with it, the child wasn't and they have a right to bodily autonomy. That a child's feelings and wishes about their own body can be subsumed by an(y) adult is a disturbing precedent, and I can understand why it triggered so much concern about and association with abuse from PPs. People should not have their personal space and physical body forcibly infringed upon, and IMHO anyone who witnesses this has the ethical high ground in challenging the person who crosses these boundaries. As others have said, etiquette be darned in this instance. >:(
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: GrammarNerd on June 11, 2013, 12:14:50 PM
Or, though this is more p/a: Try to remove the child and/or put a warning hand on the tickler's shoulder.  "Hey, tickler, can you not do that? Someone tickled me when I was a kid and just would not stop.  It wasn't fun for me at all.  Just seeing that brings back a lot of bad memories for me. Thanks." 

Just leave it there.  Little white lie?  Maybe.  But you are uncomfortable, so that part is true. You're kind of diffusing the situation without placing blame, except on yourself, for being uncomfortable.  That's what they say about expressing feelings to someone about bad behavior, right....use "I" statements? 

It's still a way of getting the person to stop in a low-key way, but not embarrassing anyone or calling them out in front of a bunch of people.  And the kid can get away.  Plus, you're letting the person know gently that being tickled isn't always fun.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Zilla on June 11, 2013, 01:13:15 PM
If it's a small enough child, and one you are close to, I'd probably go swoop them up and say something like, "Don't worry, I'll save you!".. and run off with them in a joking way. If it's not someone I'm close to, or a larger child, I'd probably say something like, "Tickler, I don't think Child is really enjoying that. I know he's laughing but he's asked you to stop."

I like this approach, OP, if you would be comfortable with these options.

I like this, too.
Me too.  And regardless of the child's age, I would pull aside the person and mention that to please stop when the child asks. 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: TootsNYC on June 11, 2013, 01:29:50 PM
Somewhere in my career I chanced upon a surprisingly effective line to stop objectionable activity quickly: assume that you're in charge and say "we're not going to do that." Maybe it works, at least for me, because it doesn't challenge the wrongdoer to prove you wrong.

And if that feels too bossy, try:

"Let's not do that."
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: cwm on June 11, 2013, 01:50:53 PM
I was tickled mercilessly growing up until I was about 8 or 9 years old. My dad had built us a bunk bed and I was sitting on the top bunk when he came in to tickle me. I ended up spontaneously kicking him in the face (I honestly didn't mean it, but he went after my feet). I can tell you, I was never tickled by him again after that. It took some of my friends in high school learning the same lesson the same way, despite having been told that I flail and thrash.

Depending on the age of the child, if someone is in actual danger of them thrashing to get away and getting hurt, step in on those grounds. If someone calls you on it, again, white lie. "One of my friends actually hurt someone pretty badly trying to get away from being tickled. I'd hate to see you kicked in the face over this, and it doesn't look like kid is enjoying it too much any more."
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: gemma156 on June 11, 2013, 07:36:44 PM
On a scout activity of abseiling down a small cliff front, one family brought along their younger son who thought pushing small stones off the edge was no big deal (the side the scouts and people were working from).  The parents were standing by and also thought this was no big deal, so my DH stepped in as one of the leaders of the day and told him to stop. 

The boy continued knocking the stones off the edge, and my dh went off on him - his parents then chimed in to say he was alright let him be and my dh informed them it was not ok.  Not for the kids going down the cliff and certainly not for the people who were holding onto the kids guide ropes at the bottom, and if they couldn't understand that they could leave the activity.  The parents were a little shocked to be presented with the option of comply or leave the activity, but they complied and led their youngest away from the cliff face to do something else.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Zilla on June 11, 2013, 07:44:53 PM
On a scout activity of abseiling down a small cliff front, one family brought along their younger son who thought pushing small stones off the edge was no big deal (the side the scouts and people were working from).  The parents were standing by and also thought this was no big deal, so my DH stepped in as one of the leaders of the day and told him to stop. 

The boy continued knocking the stones off the edge, and my dh went off on him - his parents then chimed in to say he was alright let him be and my dh informed them it was not ok.  Not for the kids going down the cliff and certainly not for the people who were holding onto the kids guide ropes at the bottom, and if they couldn't understand that they could leave the activity.  The parents were a little shocked to be presented with the option of comply or leave the activity, but they complied and led their youngest away from the cliff face to do something else.

See I think that's completely wrong.  What should have happened was your dh ask the little boy to go to his parents and explain to them why it isn't okay for the boy to do that.  They might have been completely clueless about where the rocks were going.  For your dh to go off on him is not right. 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: JoyinVirginia on June 11, 2013, 11:30:36 PM
On a scout activity of abseiling down a small cliff front, one family brought along their younger son who thought pushing small stones off the edge was no big deal (the side the scouts and people were working from).  The parents were standing by and also thought this was no big deal, so my DH stepped in as one of the leaders of the day and told him to stop. 

The boy continued knocking the stones off the edge, and my dh went off on him - his parents then chimed in to say he was alright let him be and my dh informed them it was not ok.  Not for the kids going down the cliff and I certainly not for the people who were holding onto the kids guide ropes at the bottom, and if they couldn't understand that they could leave the activity.  The parents were a little shocked to be presented with the option of comply or leave the activity, but they complied and led their youngest away from the cliff face to do something else.

See I think that's completely wrong.  What should have happened was your dh ask the little boy to go to his parents and explain to them why it isn't okay for the boy to do that.  They might have been completely clueless about where the rocks were going.  For your dh to go off on him is not right.

Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: sammycat on June 12, 2013, 12:15:37 AM
Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.

I agree.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: lowspark on June 12, 2013, 07:12:22 AM
Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.

I agree.

I agree too.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 12, 2013, 09:07:11 AM
On a scout activity of abseiling down a small cliff front, one family brought along their younger son who thought pushing small stones off the edge was no big deal (the side the scouts and people were working from).  The parents were standing by and also thought this was no big deal, so my DH stepped in as one of the leaders of the day and told him to stop. 

The boy continued knocking the stones off the edge, and my dh went off on him - his parents then chimed in to say he was alright let him be and my dh informed them it was not ok.  Not for the kids going down the cliff and I certainly not for the people who were holding onto the kids guide ropes at the bottom, and if they couldn't understand that they could leave the activity.  The parents were a little shocked to be presented with the option of comply or leave the activity, but they complied and led their youngest away from the cliff face to do something else.

See I think that's completely wrong.  What should have happened was your dh ask the little boy to go to his parents and explain to them why it isn't okay for the boy to do that.  They might have been completely clueless about where the rocks were going.  For your dh to go off on him is not right.

Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.
Adding my POD.  That was not the time for a measured and sensitive discussion on the how's and why's of their son's behavior
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: gramma dishes on June 12, 2013, 09:07:31 AM
Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.

I agree.

I agree too.

Oh my!  Me too!! 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Zilla on June 12, 2013, 09:07:51 AM
Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.

I agree.

As I posted, I don't think he was wrong in stopping the dangerous activity but he should have done so the first time by walking the boy over to his parents and explaining why.  Just because he said stop to the boy who disobeyed by continuing to do it does not give him the right to go off on him.  If he did explain why and the boy still went back to do it, then he can be more firm.  But not in the way it the OP of this event described.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: gramma dishes on June 12, 2013, 09:14:04 AM
Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.

I agree.

As I posted, I don't think he was wrong in stopping the dangerous activity but he should have done so the first time by walking the boy over to his parents and explaining why.  Just because he said stop to the boy who disobeyed by continuing to do it does not give him the right to go off on him.  If he did explain why and the boy still went back to do it, then he can be more firm.  But not in the way it the OP of this event described.

The parents were aware of what the child was doing and thought it was no big deal.  But it WAS a big deal.  Someone could have been seriously injured.  They (parents) knew.  They just chose not to stop and consider what what obvious to everyone else. 

No, the OP's (of this story) husband absolutely did what he needed to do to stop the dangerous activity.  I'm sure every single other parent there and the participants involved applauded what the husband did.  I certainly would have!
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Amava on June 12, 2013, 09:16:36 AM
Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.

I agree.

As I posted, I don't think he was wrong in stopping the dangerous activity but he should have done so the first time by walking the boy over to his parents and explaining why.  Just because he said stop to the boy who disobeyed by continuing to do it does not give him the right to go off on him.  If he did explain why and the boy still went back to do it, then he can be more firm.  But not in the way it the OP of this event described.

No. If a leader tells you to stop, you stop.
If you disobey and the leader gets upset with you, that's on you. Whether you are 5 or 50 years old.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: lowspark on June 12, 2013, 09:19:49 AM
According to gemma's story, The parents were standing by which I take to mean they were right there and could see what their son was doing. So I'm not sure how her DH was supposed to walk them over. With the parents standing right there, grabbing the hand of the offending kid to walk him a few feet might not be that wise a thing to do.

It sounds to me like the parents saw nothing dangerous in what their son was doing so they certainly had no intention of stopping him. When gemma's DH told the boy to stop and he didn't, that indicated a clear lack of respect on the boy's part for the adults in charge (gemma's DH being one of the leaders). The parents then also showed this lack of respect for the leaders by saying it was ok, thus encouraging the boy to continue.

At that point, with the safety of the people below at risk, I'd say that the leader (gemma's DH) has no choice but to do whatever it took to make the boy stop. Verbally going off on the boy would be the first step. Physical involvement (walking the boy to the parents) would be something I'd do only if the verbal reprimand didn't work.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Zilla on June 12, 2013, 09:29:20 AM
On a scout activity of abseiling down a small cliff front, one family brought along their younger son who thought pushing small stones off the edge was no big deal (the side the scouts and people were working from).  The parents were standing by and also thought this was no big deal, so my DH stepped in as one of the leaders of the day and told him to stop. 

The boy continued knocking the stones off the edge, and my dh went off on him - his parents then chimed in to say he was alright let him be and my dh informed them it was not ok.  Not for the kids going down the cliff and certainly not for the people who were holding onto the kids guide ropes at the bottom, and if they couldn't understand that they could leave the activity.  The parents were a little shocked to be presented with the option of comply or leave the activity, but they complied and led their youngest away from the cliff face to do something else.
Again I don't think he was wrong in stopping the activity, just in the way he did.  I am sure the parents are not trying to allow their younger son to hurt someone on purpose.  We have many times met clueless parents on these boards.  The younger kid wasn't a boy scout therefore not realizing the importance of that dh was a leader.  And furthermore if the activity was so apparently dangerous, why didn't anyone else including the parents of those kids dangling from the rope stepped forward instantly. I think the people other than your dh didn't realize at that instant just how dangerous it was. (not saying it wasn't)  I still maintain that the dh should have turned/walked to the parents and explain why the boy needs to stop and stay with the parents.  If after that the boy continued, then the dh can be firmer. 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: RegionMom on June 12, 2013, 09:44:57 AM
Do a search on death/injury by falling rock, and you will say why immediate action was taken. 

"Went off" does not mean cussing.  With the DH as a scout leader, I would doubt really harsh words were used. 

Slightly off topic, but similar- there was an article about a husband and wife's goofing off in a pool and the wife play screamed and the lifeguard came towards them.  Both the wife and husband waved him away, "we are just playing, wife is not really drowning!"  but the lifeguard went a few feet past them to rescue their silently drowning daughter.

How did the parents not notice their own daughter a few feet away, while the lifeguard was 50 feet away?
Because the lifeguard KNEW the dangers and the warning signs. 

The parents of the cliff ignored a warning and waved off a leader. 
What if a rock had hit older brother below?
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Zilla on June 12, 2013, 09:50:08 AM
Do a search on death/injury by falling rock, and you will say why immediate action was taken. 

"Went off" does not mean cussing.  With the DH as a scout leader, I would doubt really harsh words were used. 

Slightly off topic, but similar- there was an article about a husband and wife's goofing off in a pool and the wife play screamed and the lifeguard came towards them.  Both the wife and husband waved him away, "we are just playing, wife is not really drowning!"  but the lifeguard went a few feet past them to rescue their silently drowning daughter.

How did the parents not notice their own daughter a few feet away, while the lifeguard was 50 feet away?
Because the lifeguard KNEW the dangers and the warning signs. 

The parents of the cliff ignored a warning and waved off a leader. 
What if a rock had hit older brother below?

Where in the world did I post that the activity wasn't dangerous and no I don't need to look it up.  I know why and agreed fully that it should have been stopped.  I simply disagreed with the method.  I think he should have walked/turned to the parents and explain why it was dangerous and for the kid to stop.  Instead he simply addressed the boy and then went off on him.  This is where I think it was wrong.  The mere fact that the parent were aware and did nothing to stop the kid prompting the dh to step in should have been a huge clue that he needed to address the parents to make sure his point came across.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: TootsNYC on June 12, 2013, 11:35:58 AM
On a scout activity of abseiling down a small cliff front, one family brought along their younger son who thought pushing small stones off the edge was no big deal (the side the scouts and people were working from).  The parents were standing by and also thought this was no big deal, so my DH stepped in as one of the leaders of the day and told him to stop. 

The boy continued knocking the stones off the edge, and my dh went off on him - his parents then chimed in to say he was alright let him be and my dh informed them it was not ok.  Not for the kids going down the cliff and I certainly not for the people who were holding onto the kids guide ropes at the bottom, and if they couldn't understand that they could leave the activity.  The parents were a little shocked to be presented with the option of comply or leave the activity, but they complied and led their youngest away from the cliff face to do something else.

See I think that's completely wrong.  What should have happened was your dh ask the little boy to go to his parents and explain to them why it isn't okay for the boy to do that.  They might have been completely clueless about where the rocks were going.  For your dh to go off on him is not right.

Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.
Adding my POD.  That was not the time for a measured and sensitive discussion on the how's and why's of their son's behavior

But there are ways to be immediate without "going off" on a kid.

Of course, we don't know what *actual, real-life actions/words/tone* the OP means when she uses the phrase "going off." To some people, that's extreme (I would never use that for anything but a really, really loud yelling, etc.).

And we don't know the age of the kid, and whether he's old enough to have learned to follow the directions of the leader.

But I would also say that just saying, "stop that" is not effective. Instead say,* "Stop that--those stones are hitting the kids on the ropes and the people down below holding the ropes. It hurts! and they can't concentrate. Someone will get hurt."
   Sure it's longer, but it's also more CREDIBLE, and it doesn't leave the rock-kicker thinking you're just one of those fussy people who thinks children should stand still. (because they're out there--I've seen people tell kids to not kick rocks when they're kicking them further down the dusty country road)

(and again, we don't really know what the DH/scout leader said; we have a sketchy description by the OP)
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: gramma dishes on June 12, 2013, 11:41:39 AM
On a scout activity of abseiling down a small cliff front, one family brought along their younger son who thought pushing small stones off the edge was no big deal (the side the scouts and people were working from).  The parents were standing by and also thought this was no big deal, so my DH stepped in as one of the leaders of the day and told him to stop. 

The boy continued knocking the stones off the edge, and my dh went off on him - his parents then chimed in to say he was alright let him be and my dh informed them it was not ok.  Not for the kids going down the cliff and I certainly not for the people who were holding onto the kids guide ropes at the bottom, and if they couldn't understand that they could leave the activity.  The parents were a little shocked to be presented with the option of comply or leave the activity, but they complied and led their youngest away from the cliff face to do something else.

See I think that's completely wrong.  What should have happened was your dh ask the little boy to go to his parents and explain to them why it isn't okay for the boy to do that.  They might have been completely clueless about where the rocks were going.  For your dh to go off on him is not right.

Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.
Adding my POD.  That was not the time for a measured and sensitive discussion on the how's and why's of their son's behavior

But there are ways to be immediate without "going off" on a kid.

Of course, we don't know what *actual, real-life actions/words/tone* the OP means when she uses the phrase "going off." To some people, that's extreme (I would never use that for anything but a really, really loud yelling, etc.).

And we don't know the age of the kid, and whether he's old enough to have learned to follow the directions of the leader.

But I would also say that just saying, "stop that" is not effective. Instead say,* "Stop that--those stones are hitting the kids on the ropes and the people down below holding the ropes. It hurts! and they can't concentrate. Someone will get hurt."
   Sure it's longer, but it's also more CREDIBLE, and it doesn't leave the rock-kicker thinking you're just one of those fussy people who thinks children should stand still. (because they're out there--I've seen people tell kids to not kick rocks when they're kicking them further down the dusty country road)

(and again, we don't really know what the DH/scout leader said; we have a sketchy description by the OP)


 The husband had already told him once.  We don't know how gently he said it or whether or not that was done in an "explanatory" way.  It was only after the child continued to do it and the parents basically okayed what their younger son was doing that the husband yelled at him.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: cwm on June 12, 2013, 11:52:41 AM
My stance boils down to this. If the immediate health or well-being of someone is at risk or an immediate boundary is being broken, it's okay to step in and physically remove the person (child or adult) from whatever is causing the risk. Tickling, kicking rocks, standing next to a deep pool, whatever. Once the immediate threat has been neutralized THEN you go back and explain why you did what you did.

If there is no immediate danger to anyone and nobody is being harmed at the moment, then go with the verbal approach first.

In the case of the tickling, that's a boundary being overstepped massively. In the case of a child kicking the rocks, I wouldn't have asked nicely first, I would have gently guided the child away from the cliff and then explained why that isn't an appropriate activity. Neutralize the danger before you start explaining things.

That's my personal views on things. I realize there are others who are likely to disagree, but I grew up with a rappel master (girl scouts) who would frequently stop all activity in the area when some younger siblings (or sometimes parents) would start throwing rocks off the cliff or playing in an unsafe manner. The first step was to make sure everyone was safe, then the behavior could be addressed.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Amanita on June 12, 2013, 11:38:35 PM

Dangerous activity. Safety is imperative. The scout leader was absolutely correct in his role to make the offending behavior stop right then.

I agree completely! I remember an event I was at where myself and a friend wished that one of the leaders would find an everloving backbone!
We were at our annual Pagan community retreat, getting ready for the bardic circle aka talent show. There was a group of unattended kids playing around the main firepit, and some of them started poking at the fire with sharp sticks. One kid caught his stick on fire and started waving it around everywhere. And every time one of the kids poked it, they would send a shower of sparks up, which the wind caught and blew towards everyone gathering for the Bardic circle. A friend and I were worried- either one of those kids could get hurt (playing around fire, waving sharp burning sticks around), or somebody else could be- if an ember caught somebody's hair or clothing on fire, it would be really bad. So we reported it to one of the people in charge of the event. He just blew us off, saying "There's nothing anyone can do!"
Like poodatties therewasn't! How about asserting some authority as one of the festival coordinators and telling those kids to quit playing with fire before something happens, or insisting that the parents get the situation in hand?
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Redsoil on June 13, 2013, 05:56:54 AM
Sometimes, kids need to be yelled at.  (I'm sure I'll get disagreement.)  However, in a dangerous situation, it has an impact like nothing else will, and often that lesson STAYS with the child, where lesser words/actions won't.  Not everything needs to be "softly, softly" and in fact, I think that approach actively causes issues at times.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: sammycat on June 13, 2013, 06:44:46 AM
Sometimes, kids need to be yelled at.  (I'm sure I'll get disagreement.)  However, in a dangerous situation, it has an impact like nothing else will, and often that lesson STAYS with the child, where lesser words/actions won't.  Not everything needs to be "softly, softly" and in fact, I think that approach actively causes issues at times.

No disagreement from me!
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Black Delphinium on June 13, 2013, 01:10:40 PM
Sometimes, kids need to be yelled at.  (I'm sure I'll get disagreement.)  However, in a dangerous situation, it has an impact like nothing else will, and often that lesson STAYS with the child, where lesser words/actions won't.  Not everything needs to be "softly, softly" and in fact, I think that approach actively causes issues at times.

No disagreement from me!
I'll float my stick along side yours.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: White Lotus on June 14, 2013, 06:54:00 AM
A few years ago I saw a big billboard in CA that showed a child and said, "Tickle Twice a Day."  This was meant to be NICE, and example of "affection." I just about went ballistic and nobody I was with had any clue why and failed to understand what I was saying as a person who was tortured this way as a child.  I am glad I am not the only member of the Tickling is Torture camp.  Indeed, I would step in, at once, and forcefully.  I have never seen tickling used as anything other than harassment, bullying and torture.  Thanks, everyone, for your strong stance against this form of child abuse.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Judah on June 14, 2013, 09:23:11 AM
A few years ago I saw a big billboard in CA that showed a child and said, "Tickle Twice a Day."  This was meant to be NICE, and example of "affection." I just about went ballistic and nobody I was with had any clue why and failed to understand what I was saying as a person who was tortured this way as a child.  I am glad I am not the only member of the Tickling is Torture camp.  Indeed, I would step in, at once, and forcefully.  I have never seen tickling used as anything other than harassment, bullying and torture.  Thanks, everyone, for your strong stance against this form of child abuse.

I understand that many of you were tickled to the point of torture, and that was wrong, but don't assume that everyone shares your point of view that tickling is wrong. I loved being tickled as a kid, my kids loved being tickled. We would tickle the kids until they said "stop", and as soon as they caught their breath, they'd say "do it again".  This would go on until either the tickler or the ticklee got tired of it. So, yes, I absolutely understand why many of you hate tickling, bit it's not torture for everyone.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Shoo on June 14, 2013, 09:30:54 AM
A few years ago I saw a big billboard in CA that showed a child and said, "Tickle Twice a Day."  This was meant to be NICE, and example of "affection." I just about went ballistic and nobody I was with had any clue why and failed to understand what I was saying as a person who was tortured this way as a child.  I am glad I am not the only member of the Tickling is Torture camp.  Indeed, I would step in, at once, and forcefully.  I have never seen tickling used as anything other than harassment, bullying and torture.  Thanks, everyone, for your strong stance against this form of child abuse.

I understand that many of you were tickled to the point of torture, and that was wrong, but don't assume that everyone shares your point of view that tickling is wrong. I loved being tickled as a kid, my kids loved being tickled. We would tickle the kids until they said "stop", and as soon as they caught their breath, they'd say "do it again".  This would go on until either the tickler or the ticklee got tired of it. So, yes, I absolutely understand why many of you hate tickling, bit it's not torture for everyone.

Well, no, it's not torture for you and your kids because you stopped when they said stop.  Refusing to stop is what makes it torture.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Sharnita on June 14, 2013, 09:33:12 AM
I have a nephew that begs us to tickle him so I agree that characterizing tickling as torture in gneral is OTT.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Judah on June 14, 2013, 09:35:45 AM
A few years ago I saw a big billboard in CA that showed a child and said, "Tickle Twice a Day."  This was meant to be NICE, and example of "affection." I just about went ballistic and nobody I was with had any clue why and failed to understand what I was saying as a person who was tortured this way as a child.  I am glad I am not the only member of the Tickling is Torture camp.  Indeed, I would step in, at once, and forcefully.  I have never seen tickling used as anything other than harassment, bullying and torture.  Thanks, everyone, for your strong stance against this form of child abuse.

I understand that many of you were tickled to the point of torture, and that was wrong, but don't assume that everyone shares your point of view that tickling is wrong. I loved being tickled as a kid, my kids loved being tickled. We would tickle the kids until they said "stop", and as soon as they caught their breath, they'd say "do it again".  This would go on until either the tickler or the ticklee got tired of it. So, yes, I absolutely understand why many of you hate tickling, bit it's not torture for everyone.

Well, no, it's not torture for you and your kids because you stopped when they said stop.  Refusing to stop is what makes it torture.

White Lotus's post doesn't make a distinction between fun tickling and torture tickling. She characterizes all tickling as bad. I meant to point out that tickling CAN be " NICE, and example of 'affection.'"
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Sophia on June 14, 2013, 09:43:02 AM
As a small child, DH's sister (12 years older) LOVED to tickle him until he pee'd in his pants.  In order to get it to stop he had to train himself to "not be ticklish".  It is still with him, and his whole body tenses up like a board if I accidentally do something tickly during frolicking. 

Not that all tickling is bad.  Just all tickling after "Stop" or "No". 
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Morrigan on June 14, 2013, 03:55:30 PM
A few years ago I saw a big billboard in CA that showed a child and said, "Tickle Twice a Day."  This was meant to be NICE, and example of "affection." I just about went ballistic and nobody I was with had any clue why and failed to understand what I was saying as a person who was tortured this way as a child.  I am glad I am not the only member of the Tickling is Torture camp.  Indeed, I would step in, at once, and forcefully.  I have never seen tickling used as anything other than harassment, bullying and torture.  Thanks, everyone, for your strong stance against this form of child abuse.

I understand that many of you were tickled to the point of torture, and that was wrong, but don't assume that everyone shares your point of view that tickling is wrong. I loved being tickled as a kid, my kids loved being tickled. We would tickle the kids until they said "stop", and as soon as they caught their breath, they'd say "do it again".  This would go on until either the tickler or the ticklee got tired of it. So, yes, I absolutely understand why many of you hate tickling, bit it's not torture for everyone.

I was just going to post this.  My DD loves to be tickled.  Huge, rolling giggles, and if we stop, she puts our hands back on her tickle spots.  We stop when she wants, but theres heck to pay if we stop too early for this 2 year old liking,

Tickle isn'y always torture.
Title: Re: "Get your hands off that child!" when the parent is right there
Post by: Wordgeek on June 14, 2013, 04:26:49 PM
No, tickling is not torture.  Tickling after the person says to stop is unkind, and may be cruel or abusive, but it is not torture.  Those of you who disagree need to look up the dictionary definition of torture.  Enough of the histrionics already.

With that, thread closed.