Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: TheBardess on June 10, 2013, 01:20:26 PM

Title: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TheBardess on June 10, 2013, 01:20:26 PM
The other day, my husband showed me this YouTube clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRPc6S3sh2g

Basically, the story is that a plane was delayed on the tarmac in Beijing for something like 3-4 hours. On board were members of the Philadelphia Orchestra, some of whom (when it became clear that this delay was going to be loooooong) pulled out their instruments and played selections of Dvorak for the rest of the passengers. Most of the people on the plane seem delighted by this, and my husband and I both agreed that this was really awesome, and we would love it if something like this happened to us. I told one of my friends about it though, and her response was "Well sure it's great- unless you don't like Dvorak!"

She was joking, but it did kind of get me idly wondering- the orchestra members were obviously trying to do something nice, but could it possibly be construed as rude to just start playing for a completely captive audience like that? A plane isn't a big space, obviously, and if you didn't like the music or had a headache or something, you really couldn't get away. Personally, I really like classical music, so I would have been delighted by a free Dvorak concert, but if it had been, say, a heavy metal band (I *hate* heavy metal), I would have appreciated that they meant to be nice, but would secretly have been thinking "Oh Lord, please stop, you are making this delay that much more unbearable."

So what do you think? I personally don't think what they did was rude, but could it be seen that way? How would you feel if this happened to you?
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 10, 2013, 01:27:25 PM
Wow would I be annoyed! I watched that whole 1.5 minute clip just to be able to give honest feedback, but I have to say by abut 30 seconds in I was thinking "what an absolutely awful sound!" and by 1 minute it was truly unpleasant and uncomfortable sounding. I personally find it hard to conceive how people enjoy that sound. I can appreciate the talent it takes to play the instruments but I really, really, really did not like that music. I also imagine it was very loud in the enclosed space of an airplane.

I would be ok with it for say 5 minutes because hey, i realize its not all about me, but for longer then that I would be very tempted to yell at them to be quiet and leave people in peace.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Indigosails on June 10, 2013, 01:34:31 PM
I probably would have pulled out my earplugs and used them. I agree with WillNilly, I appreciated the talent, but not the music. 3 to 4 hours waiting on the tarmac is stressful enough without having to be a captive audience.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Knitterly on June 10, 2013, 01:36:35 PM
I think this is a lovely way to help passengers pass the very long wait. 

WillyNilly, I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.  Have you truly never heard a string orchestra before?  I am trying to understand how you could hear an "absolutely awful sound" in that.

I hope one would not yell at them (especially not an ehellion), but would instead ask a stewardess to have them put the instruments away. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Cat-Fu on June 10, 2013, 01:37:44 PM
I agree with Knitterly. I'd be pleased as punch to get a free show!
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Allyson on June 10, 2013, 01:40:59 PM
I wouldn't mind. If it was a type of music I didn't like, I'd ask the airplane for headphones (all airplanes I've been on have music you can listen to so if I didn't have my ipod with me I'd still be able to pick what music I wanted to hear to some extent!)
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: SingMeAway on June 10, 2013, 01:41:16 PM
I would have loved this and been thrilled to see it close up. That being said, if you didn't like the music, you certainly would have been trapped in close quarters with it. I think too it would depend how long they were playing for.  20-30 minutes ok, the whole 3-4 hours, not so much.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 10, 2013, 01:42:10 PM
I think this is a lovely way to help passengers pass the very long wait. 

WillyNilly, I couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.  Have you truly never heard a string orchestra before?  I am trying to understand how you could hear an "absolutely awful sound" in that.

I hope one would not yell at them (especially not an ehellion), but would instead ask a stewardess to have them put the instruments away.

Yes I was serious and yes I have heard string orchestras before, amazing ones. Heck I saw John Williams leading the London Symphony Orchestra perform the soundtrack of Star Wars, and twice annually for the last 7 years I have attended a local oratorio group that is accompanied by a full orchestra and performs mainly classical pieces. And yet I think the high pitched screechiness of that piece was absolutely awful and uncomfortable, it was almost painful to listen to. I'm not a huge fan of classical music or orchestra music to begin with, and I have to say that clip was one of the worst sounding examples of the genre.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Shoo on June 10, 2013, 01:51:33 PM
I'd have enjoyed it for about 10 minutes.  Then I'd want peace and quiet.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Perfect Circle on June 10, 2013, 01:54:49 PM
Inside an airplane I wouldn't find it pleasant. You are not able to get away from the noise and that is not what I prefer when on a plane.

Inside a terminal when waiting for a delayed flight? I would have thought it was great probably even if the music wasn't quite to my taste.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 10, 2013, 01:55:08 PM
The woman at the beginning stated that they were going to play the final movement of Dvorak's American quartet, which is about 6 minutes long.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: guihong on June 10, 2013, 02:03:37 PM
Even without great acoustics on an airplane, this would be fun and a good memory!  They probably didn't play for the entire three hours; just that selection.

(I wonder why they couldn't get off the plane and wait in the terminal.  On our way home from China, the plane landed in Shanghai and everyone in the giant jet had to disembark just to get in a huge line to show our passports.  Why that couldn't be done in the plane, I don't know).
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: magicdomino on June 10, 2013, 02:04:50 PM
Maybe not the whole 3-4 hours, but I would enjoy an impromptu 10 minute concert just to break up the monotony.  I'm not a classical music fan, but I also don't travel well.  ("Why are we just sitting here?  I'm bored.  Bored, bored, bored.  Don't wanna read my book.  This puzzle's stupid.  My butt hurts.  Aren't we leaving yet?  Ooooo, what are they going to do with those instruments?")
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on June 10, 2013, 02:05:08 PM
To be fair to the musicians, I believe that the screechiness of the instruments is probably due mostly to the recording device, and a little due to the acoustics inside the plane.

Personally, I love Dvorak, but I know that there are classical music fans who do not care for him.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Thipu1 on June 10, 2013, 02:40:50 PM
To be fair to the musicians, I believe that the screechiness of the instruments is probably due mostly to the recording device, and a little due to the acoustics inside the plane.

Personally, I love Dvorak, but I know that there are classical music fans who do not care for him.

It could be a fun memory.  it could also be Holy Hell. 

The idea was a nice one but logistics could be a problem.  Space in a plane is tight and the acoustics for a string concert aren't the best. 

Although I like live music, this may not have been the optimal time and place for it. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TootsNYC on June 10, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
Even if it's Holy Hell--it's only going to be that for some of the people, and it's only 6 minutes.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: MariaE on June 10, 2013, 03:19:18 PM
Even without great acoustics on an airplane, this would be fun and a good memory!  They probably didn't play for the entire three hours; just that selection.

(I wonder why they couldn't get off the plane and wait in the terminal.  On our way home from China, the plane landed in Shanghai and everyone in the giant jet had to disembark just to get in a huge line to show our passports.  Why that couldn't be done in the plane, I don't know).

Depends on the airport / country. We once had to do an emergency landing in Dubai on a trip from London to Bangkok. Due to regulations (customs, probably) we weren't allowed to leave the plane for the 3 hours we were grounded. Longest 3 hours of my LIFE!

As long as they kept it to <10~15 minutes, I think it isn't rude. Any longer than that and it would be.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 10, 2013, 03:27:38 PM
Even if it's Holy Hell--it's only going to be that for some of the people, and it's only 6 minutes.

Right 6 minutes is ok... although still presumptuous. But anything longer with a captive audience is just not ok.

I was once on the same flight as LL Cool J - I would have been thrilled if he broke out with some old school freestyle street rap, but I'm sure many people would not have enjoyed it, despite LL Cool J being truly talented in the genre, just like the OP probably would not have enjoyed it if Metallica - widely considered a great heavy metal band - performed.

No matter how talented an artist or group may be, enjoyment is still going to subjective.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Mammavan3 on June 10, 2013, 03:29:56 PM
I love Dvorak, but I think a more soothing selection would have been appropriate in a situation where people are probably upset.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Zilla on June 10, 2013, 04:12:52 PM
Inside an airplane I wouldn't find it pleasant. You are not able to get away from the noise and that is not what I prefer when on a plane.

Inside a terminal when waiting for a delayed flight? I would have thought it was great probably even if the music wasn't quite to my taste.


Parking my pod here.  I think it's a wonderful gift.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Bijou on June 10, 2013, 04:20:09 PM
Wow would I be annoyed! I watched that whole 1.5 minute clip just to be able to give honest feedback, but I have to say by abut 30 seconds in I was thinking "what an absolutely awful sound!" and by 1 minute it was truly unpleasant and uncomfortable sounding. I personally find it hard to conceive how people enjoy that sound. I can appreciate the talent it takes to play the instruments but I really, really, really did not like that music. I also imagine it was very loud in the enclosed space of an airplane.

I would be ok with it for say 5 minutes because hey, i realize its not all about me, but for longer then that I would be very tempted to yell at them to be quiet and leave people in peace.
I enjoy some classical music but would not want to be held captive audience on a plane by this or anything else.  Even my beloved old time country music would be unfair to some people there so I would opt for no on that, as well.
I don't know if it were rude, but certainly thoughtless and disregarding of the other passengers. 
Do you know that there are some places that play classical music to keep loiterers away?  I know of two off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Bijou on June 10, 2013, 04:47:44 PM
My husband thinks it would be thrilling, but he loves classical music a darn sight better than I do.  After I read him my response, he said I was a fossil, so then we had an argument about him calling me a fossil.  >:( 
He also said if it were heavy metal he would go hide his head in the toilet (I think he meant literally, not just the room)  NOW who's a fossil?

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 10, 2013, 04:52:41 PM
My dad likes classical music (not his favorite, but he likes it) but he would hate this situation because of the volume. My father is very protective of his hearing (he wears earplugs on the subway even! And came to my wedding prepared with earplugs - which he used the whole reception). There would be no escape from the volume of this performance unless someone brought noise cancelled earphones or earplugs with them.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Lynnv on June 10, 2013, 04:57:31 PM
I was stuck on a plane on the tarmac in DC for nearly 4 hours about 5/6 years ago (they kept saying it would only be "15 or 20 more minutes" as we were waiting for a part to get fixed.  It was quite miserable-hot, muggy, I was stuck in the VERY back row and the plane was 100% full.  Anything to pass the time would have probably been at least somewhat welcomed.

I would have personally enjoyed it.  I would also have enjoyed LL Cool J or Metallica too.  But getting hit with something I didn't like would have been less fun and I can see how it would have been really awful for folks who are more picky about what music they like than I am (I like many things and can put up with a lot of others for short periods without it bothering me too much).  For 10 minutes or so, I could put up with it.  Especially since it would make at least some of my fellow passengers less cranky about being stuck in a plane.    But anything longer would have been too much.  And I can certainly see how folks would be annoyed even by that much of it.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: perpetua on June 10, 2013, 05:00:34 PM
Hey, could be worse. It could be Cliff Richard singing at Wimbledon.

I'd love it, but then I'm a musician and I'll never turn down the chance of a free performance.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 10, 2013, 05:09:33 PM
A free concert of something you usually have to pay a ticket for?  Sounds like a nice treat to me.  And listening to the music, I wouldn't be offended by it at all.  I'd see it as a good way of passing some time during a point where tempers are running high and everyone's frustrated by the delay.

And I agree that the "shrill" sound you're hearing is due to the audio - not the actual performance.  I think it sounded a lot cleaner in person.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: yellowpineapple on June 10, 2013, 05:57:33 PM
Getting to hear a short concert by members of the world-class Philadelphia Orchestra?  Sign me up!  I know the Dvorak "American" Quartet like the back of my hand, and would have been thrilled to hear it. That finale movement is a blast and an absolute joy to play! 

Also, it should be noted that this was not actually a string orchestra playing; it was only 4 people from the orchestra. (For those who were concerned about the amount of sound in a small space, it definitely wasn't the 60 or so string players that are likely part of the orchestra's string section. There just isn't room for everyone to play, even on a large long-haul sized plane.  :)  ).  It might be interesting to note that when the "American" Quartet was written, works like this were considered for intimate audiences, small salon type venues.  I wonder what Dvorak might have thought of his classic work being played on a plane!

Regarding the sound quality:  I can tell that these are highly trained, excellent players.  However, the sound quality of the video makes the first violinist's violin sound pretty tinny.  It captures a lot of the instrument's higher overtones, and doesn't really grab the bass end of the spectrum.  It also looks like the person recording this particular video was standing/sitting right by the first violinist.  (As our recording engineer where I work says:  the one closest to the mic wins.)  Those little video recorders on cell phones are not meant to accurately capture the acoustic qualities of live instruments--you need really great mics for that. :)    So, I wouldn't judge the tone quality from this video. 

In any case, you just can't please everyone, regardless of the good intentions of the quartet that was playing.  :)
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TeamBhakta on June 10, 2013, 06:04:51 PM
I like classic music, but I found them a wee bit too squeaky for my taste. I wouldn't know if that's because of the audio or not. That plus I would feel like "Um, I didn't ask you to entertain me while we wait. Please, restrain yourself from that impulse." The only thing worse would be "And now my toddler will regale all of you with Wheels On The Bus over and over." I just dislike people who grab for attention like that.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Slartibartfast on June 10, 2013, 06:05:52 PM
I've had to sing on a plane before.  It was not a great experience.  Our conductor was thrilled that we were asked to perform a song, but I found it rude and wish we hadn't been obliged to participate.

(College choir - ~45 people - on a cross-country flight.  You can't really fit 45 people in the aisle very well without taking up the whole plane.  Also, the plane is specifically designed to dampen noise.  Result: those of us in the back couldn't see the conductor, couldn't hear the people in the front, and were probably slightly off the beat because of it.  I suspect we sounded awful.)
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 10, 2013, 06:16:49 PM
Even if it's Holy Hell--it's only going to be that for some of the people, and it's only 6 minutes.

The music only lasts 6 minutes.  If people have migraines or anxiety issues, the discomfort related to it could last way past the music.

There are days where I might delight in this and days where it could possibly cause me agony for at least a few hours.  Maybe there was nobody with any sensitivities on that particular plane at that particular time.  It seems like a role of the dice and I am undecided as to whether it would be worth it.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Olympia on June 10, 2013, 06:46:01 PM
I was once on the same flight as LL Cool J - I would have been thrilled if he broke out with some old school freestyle street rap, but I'm sure many people would not have enjoyed it, despite LL Cool J being truly talented in the genre, just like the OP probably would not have enjoyed it if Metallica - widely considered a great heavy metal band - performed.

I don't like rap, but how fun would that have been if he'd done that? I'd have loved it.

Flying is stressful enough as it is. Why search for rudeness in a someone's generosity?
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: gollymolly2 on June 10, 2013, 06:54:39 PM
This is a hard one. It's obviously something that many people would enjoy. And their goal in playing is clearly to cheer people up/ spread some joy. So I definitely don't think they were rude.

But planes are such a small environment + people are usually already irritable once the flight delays set in.  It would be frustrating to be a captive audience if you were not in the mood for it or didn't enjoy it. I'm imagining if I was stuck on a long-delayed flight and someone started suddenly loudly playing dubstep or country music. I'd be really frustrated. Especially if the excuse was "its only six minutes!" or "this is great music; you should enjoy it!". So while I don't think the musicians were rude, I also wouldn't think a passenger was a grump if he or she was annoyed by the whole situation.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Surianne on June 10, 2013, 07:22:36 PM
What a lovely thing to do!  Even if it wasn't a style of music I like (the aforementioned rap, for example) I'd have appreciated the effort and the fact that it cheered up other passengers. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 10, 2013, 07:26:53 PM
Quote
I don't like rap, but how fun would that have been if he'd done that? I'd have loved it.

This is my thought as well.  Even if it were a genre of music that I didn't care for, the fact that it was a free concert of something you usually have to pay big bucks for would be cool.  I'd love to be able to say I'd gotten the chance to hear XYZ for free when everyone I knew had to pay a lot of money to get a far off seat in a concert.

It also doesn't say whether the people on the plane were asked before they got this concert.  It could be that they were, and everyone on board was fine with it.  We tuned in on the video, essentially, in the middle of things.  We don't know that everyone wasn't asked.  (And if they responded that it was ok when it wasn't, that's really not anyone else's fault - we say here all the time not to be PA if you have an objection.  If someone has migraine tendencies, it is very possible to politely say that to a "do you mind if they do this" question and ask that the concert not take place.)
 


 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TootsNYC on June 10, 2013, 07:34:44 PM
Honestly, stuck on a plane, I'd be happy with Amateur Hour.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Roe on June 10, 2013, 07:37:06 PM
A free concert of something you usually have to pay a ticket for?  Sounds like a nice treat to me.  And listening to the music, I wouldn't be offended by it at all.  I'd see it as a good way of passing some time during a point where tempers are running high and everyone's frustrated by the delay.

And I agree that the "shrill" sound you're hearing is due to the audio - not the actual performance.  I think it sounded a lot cleaner in person.

Pod.  Plus, sometimes people, in general, have to enjoy those amazing moments that happen randomly instead of trying to find rudeness in everything.

I don't like rap music but I would've loved to hear LLCoolJ.  Not because I love his music but because of the beauty of the moment.  How often does that happen?  That's what I would've enjoyed. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Surianne on June 10, 2013, 07:43:22 PM
A free concert of something you usually have to pay a ticket for?  Sounds like a nice treat to me.  And listening to the music, I wouldn't be offended by it at all.  I'd see it as a good way of passing some time during a point where tempers are running high and everyone's frustrated by the delay.

And I agree that the "shrill" sound you're hearing is due to the audio - not the actual performance.  I think it sounded a lot cleaner in person.

Pod.  Plus, sometimes people, in general, have to enjoy those amazing moments that happen randomly instead of trying to find rudeness in everything.

I don't like rap music but I would've loved to hear LLCoolJ.  Not because I love his music but because of the beauty of the moment.  How often does that happen?  That's what I would've enjoyed.

Totally. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: IrishGenes on June 10, 2013, 07:54:57 PM
My autistic son would have been practically shrieking in distress from the sound of the violins.  Higher pitched string instruments sound like fingernails on a chalkboard to him.  That would not have been pleasant experience for *anyone* on the plane. :( 

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: pharmagal on June 10, 2013, 08:03:14 PM
I'm positive that if any person on the plane had an issue with the music and/or it's effects on people, and they let the players know, they would have stopped immediately.  No-one can accurately judge anyone else's mental state and nor should they, unless they are a professional.

I think what they did was lovely. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Olympia on June 10, 2013, 08:11:03 PM
I'm positive that if any person on the plane had an issue with the music and/or it's effects on people, and they let the players know, they would have stopped immediately.  No-one can accurately judge anyone else's mental state and nor should they, unless they are a professional.

I think what they did was lovely.

Exactly this. At some point people have to take the responsibility to advocate for themselves if there's a problem. I really think that if you ask yourself all possible "what if"s before doing anything, then you'll spend your life doing nothing. How many random acts of kindness would go undone if people constantly second guessed themselves?
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TootsNYC on June 10, 2013, 08:18:05 PM
I'm positive that if any person on the plane had an issue with the music and/or it's effects on people, and they let the players know, they would have stopped immediately.  No-one can accurately judge anyone else's mental state and nor should they, unless they are a professional.

I think what they did was lovely.

Exactly this. At some point people have to take the responsibility to advocate for themselves if there's a problem. I really think that if you ask yourself all possible "what if"s before doing anything, then you'll spend your life doing nothing. How many random acts of kindness would go undone if people constantly second guessed themselves?

And how many gifts wouldn't ever be given?

Just because you don't personally like something doesn't make it rude. Or inappropriate. Or wrong. Or even unwise.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: baglady on June 10, 2013, 08:21:26 PM
I'm positive that if any person on the plane had an issue with the music and/or it's effects on people, and they let the players know, they would have stopped immediately.  No-one can accurately judge anyone else's mental state and nor should they, unless they are a professional.

I think what they did was lovely.

This. And by "had an issue," that means something like IrishGenes' son who has a true visceral, crowd-disturbing reaction to the music -- not Joe Schmoe who just doesn't care for Dvorak.

I think random acts of live music are the coolest thing ever, and I would welcome an impromptu performance on a delayed flight by just about anyone, whether I was a fan of their music or not. I'd like to think I'd be understanding if it were cut short because someone had an issue like IrishGenes' son. But I'd still be thrilled at getting to hear even a couple of minutes of (Insert Artist Name Here).
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Tabby Uprising on June 10, 2013, 08:24:23 PM
I'm positive that if any person on the plane had an issue with the music and/or it's effects on people, and they let the players know, they would have stopped immediately.  No-one can accurately judge anyone else's mental state and nor should they, unless they are a professional.

I think what they did was lovely.

Exactly this. At some point people have to take the responsibility to advocate for themselves if there's a problem. I really think that if you ask yourself all possible "what if"s before doing anything, then you'll spend your life doing nothing. How many random acts of kindness would go undone if people constantly second guessed themselves?

Yes and yes.  I agree with you both!
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 10, 2013, 08:31:01 PM
I was once on the same flight as LL Cool J - I would have been thrilled if he broke out with some old school freestyle street rap, but I'm sure many people would not have enjoyed it, despite LL Cool J being truly talented in the genre, just like the OP probably would not have enjoyed it if Metallica - widely considered a great heavy metal band - performed.

I don't like rap, but how fun would that have been if he'd done that? I'd have loved it.

Flying is stressful enough as it is. Why search for rudeness in a someone's generosity?

The thing is, you can be a talented massage therapist.  If somebody agrees to an offer of a free massage you are indeed very generous.  If you start to massage somebody without their  consent, however, you are not generous but intrusive.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Olympia on June 10, 2013, 08:37:54 PM
I was once on the same flight as LL Cool J - I would have been thrilled if he broke out with some old school freestyle street rap, but I'm sure many people would not have enjoyed it, despite LL Cool J being truly talented in the genre, just like the OP probably would not have enjoyed it if Metallica - widely considered a great heavy metal band - performed.

I don't like rap, but how fun would that have been if he'd done that? I'd have loved it.

Flying is stressful enough as it is. Why search for rudeness in a someone's generosity?

The thing is, you can be a talented massage therapist.  If somebody agrees to an offer of a free massage you are indeed very generous.  If you start to massage somebody without their  consent, however, you are not generous but intrusive.

They aren't massage therapists. They're musicians. No physical contact involved.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: IrishGenes on June 10, 2013, 08:44:56 PM
As mentioned before, I also think it is important to remember that a person's reaction can differ from one trip/flight/day to another.  If I would not be traveling with my son, I would have been thrilled at the impromptu concert!  It isn't very often that I can hear string instruments without wearing headphones. 

It all depends on the circumstances. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 10, 2013, 08:50:15 PM
I was once on the same flight as LL Cool J - I would have been thrilled if he broke out with some old school freestyle street rap, but I'm sure many people would not have enjoyed it, despite LL Cool J being truly talented in the genre, just like the OP probably would not have enjoyed it if Metallica - widely considered a great heavy metal band - performed.

I don't like rap, but how fun would that have been if he'd done that? I'd have loved it.

Flying is stressful enough as it is. Why search for rudeness in a someone's generosity?

The thing is, you can be a talented massage therapist.  If somebody agrees to an offer of a free massage you are indeed very generous.  If you start to massage somebody without their  consent, however, you are not generous but intrusive.

They aren't massage therapists. They're musicians. No physical contact involved.

In some cases, music could be as intrusive for one person as a physical touch for another.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Olympia on June 10, 2013, 08:55:30 PM
I was once on the same flight as LL Cool J - I would have been thrilled if he broke out with some old school freestyle street rap, but I'm sure many people would not have enjoyed it, despite LL Cool J being truly talented in the genre, just like the OP probably would not have enjoyed it if Metallica - widely considered a great heavy metal band - performed.

I don't like rap, but how fun would that have been if he'd done that? I'd have loved it.

Flying is stressful enough as it is. Why search for rudeness in a someone's generosity?

The thing is, you can be a talented massage therapist.  If somebody agrees to an offer of a free massage you are indeed very generous.  If you start to massage somebody without their  consent, however, you are not generous but intrusive.

They aren't massage therapists. They're musicians. No physical contact involved.

In some cases, music could be as intrusive for one person as a physical touch for another.

Which brings us back to "what if"-ing yourself into complete immobility. Shrill laughter can also be intrusive. If I follow your comments to their logical end, this means laughing in public is inappropriate. What a joyless world that would be. No laughter, no music.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 10, 2013, 09:06:15 PM
Well, I think we need to differentiate between "in public" and "enclosed spaces where others can't escape from".  And yes, I would actually say that if possible one might want to tone down the shrill laughter on a plane, too.  That doesn't mean not laughter on a plane.  I am not saying music via headphones on the plane would be wrong in any way.  I just have my doubts as to whether it is at all polite to impose it to everyone in general risking the odds that enough people will like it that it is worth the discomfort or even pain it might cause some others.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sparksals on June 10, 2013, 09:24:27 PM
If I were on this plane, I would be ticked.   I think about when dH and I were coming back from France after a VERY long trip via Helsinki.  We also had a long layover in Chicago and a long line in US Customs.  On our flight home to MSP, if that orchestra started to play, I probably would have got up and destringed their violins.  We were SO tired, grumpy and just wanted to get home.  It was bad enough a baby screeched almost the entire trip... the poor mother tried her best, but our patience was severely limited after a long transatlantic trip, jet lag etc. 


While it was a nice thought, there was not thought to the people who were in the middle of a very long trip, who were tired and wanted to sleep.  Music is such a personal choice and I believe they overstepped by inflicting it on everyone without opportunity to opt out.  What were people who didn't like it to do?  Get up and be the party killers? 







Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: StarFaerie on June 10, 2013, 10:03:06 PM
I wonder if many classical lover's answers here would have been different if some of my favourite artists, Deadmau5 or Nero, say, were on the plane, unpacked their decks and amps and started spinning dubstep at reasonable volume. Not something I would recommend as many might think there was a mechanical problem with the plane :P, but in my mind an analogous situation. I don't like most classical music. I think violins generally sound like someone is torturing a cat and it would not have been a gift to me, especially if a migraine was coming on.

I think that people should ask before intruding on another's space unnecessarily, be it physical, auditory or even olfactory and that it shouldn't be on the person being intruded on to have to speak up.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 10, 2013, 10:39:13 PM
Quote
there was not thought to the people who were in the middle of a very long trip, who were tired and wanted to sleep

Where was that mentioned in the video? How do you know they didn't ask beforehand? See my earlier post - and those following mine about taking some responsibility for yourself.

StarFaerie, that possibility has already been covered by several people in the thread.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Surianne on June 10, 2013, 11:04:26 PM
I wonder if many classical lover's answers here would have been different if some of my favourite artists, Deadmau5 or Nero, say, were on the plane, unpacked their decks and amps and started spinning dubstep at reasonable volume. Not something I would recommend as many might think there was a mechanical problem with the plane :P, but in my mind an analogous situation. I don't like most classical music. I think violins generally sound like someone is torturing a cat and it would not have been a gift to me, especially if a migraine was coming on.

Many of us have said that even if it weren't to our personal musical taste, we'd appreciate the distraction and the kindness involved, as well as the unique experience. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sammycat on June 10, 2013, 11:21:22 PM
I think their intentions were good, but had I found myself in this situation I'd have gone out of my mind. This has nothing to do with the actual style of music, but being forced to listen to a racket (any racket) against my will in a situation I couldn't escape from.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: perpetua on June 11, 2013, 02:00:11 AM
I think sometimes people get etiquette confused with "I don't like x therefore anyone doing it in my presence is rude". I see that on this thread. Just because one does not like violins, it doesn't make what they did rude.  Other people were no doubt enjoying the performance. So many people seem to expect that the world be tailored to their preferences and that they should never have to come across anything that they don't like. Sometimes we have to give way to others preferences. That's just the way the world works and it has nothing to do with etiquette.

If I were on this plane, I would be ticked.   I think about when dH and I were coming back from France after a VERY long trip via Helsinki.  We also had a long layover in Chicago and a long line in US Customs.  On our flight home to MSP, if that orchestra started to play, I probably would have got up and destringed their violins. 

Would you really have done this, or is this just written for effect?

Quote
Music is such a personal choice and I believe they overstepped by inflicting it on everyone without opportunity to opt out.  What were people who didn't like it to do?  Get up and be the party killers? 

I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: MariaE on June 11, 2013, 02:24:17 AM
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

However, I do realize they meant well, and that other people probably enjoyed it, which is why I agree with Toots that if they kept it under 6 minutes (I'd even say 10 minutes) it's not rude. Just keep it to that.

* Unfortunately I'm not exaggerating. I don't know why Celtic singing causes such a visceral reaction in me, but it's horrible :(
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: perpetua on June 11, 2013, 02:38:05 AM
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

I think that's a bit different. What I'm questioning is the "I don't like this type of music, therefore it's rude and they should stop" angle, or even the "I'm tired and grumpy after a long flight therefore it's rude and they must stop" angle. I don't think their opinion or preference trumps that of those who *are* enjoying it.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: pharmagal on June 11, 2013, 04:12:16 AM
But Maria - If you had had that reaction, no doubt the music would have stopped. 

Everyday we are "treated" to sounds and situations we may not necessarily seek out.  If it inconveniences you then you deal with it like a reasonable adult, yes?  6 minutes of music; be it Classical, Rap, or Bluegrass Banjos may annoy you because it isn't "your" thing, but could very well be a treasured memory for someone else.

IF it were to cause such a visceral reaction then surely you'd be prepared with earplugs or something anyway.  I'm sure we've all gone into stores that are playing music that is not to our tastes. Or at a volume we don't like. 

May I also add that while I do enjoy Classical I'm also currently thrashing Five Finger Death Punch and Disturbed in my car.  You don't have to love a particular genre to appreciate good music.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: MariaE on June 11, 2013, 04:46:55 AM
But Maria - If you had had that reaction, no doubt the music would have stopped. 

Everyday we are "treated" to sounds and situations we may not necessarily seek out.  If it inconveniences you then you deal with it like a reasonable adult, yes?  6 minutes of music; be it Classical, Rap, or Bluegrass Banjos may annoy you because it isn't "your" thing, but could very well be a treasured memory for someone else.

IF it were to cause such a visceral reaction then surely you'd be prepared with earplugs or something anyway.  I'm sure we've all gone into stores that are playing music that is not to our tastes. Or at a volume we don't like. 

Which is why I'm saying it isn't rude - nor even inconsiderate - if kept to a reasonable time frame. I was just offering examples of reasons other than taste why people might not treasure such an experience.

I don't tend to carry earplugs around with me... first of all I've yet to find a pair that worked :P Secondly I've never yet been someplace where I was forced to stay and listen to the music - I can just leave. The closest I've come was while watching a movie at a theater (Troy I think...), but fortunately nobody notices if you hold your hands over your ears in the dark and on the back row ;)
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 11, 2013, 06:26:52 AM
Six minutes could definitely trigger a migraine.  I imagine it would be more than enough  to trigger a reaction from somebody who has autism. And the reaction doesn't stop when the music stop.  The pain the person is feeling continues when the music is over.  So the music stopping once they notice somebody having a reaction is too little, too late.

Now, when we walk into stores with music we don't like we turn on our heels and walk right back out.  People sitting on a plane don't have that option.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: perpetua on June 11, 2013, 06:48:55 AM
Six minutes could definitely trigger a migraine.  I imagine it would be more than enough  to trigger a reaction from somebody who has autism. And the reaction doesn't stop when the music stop.  The pain the person is feeling continues when the music is over.  So the music stopping once they notice somebody having a reaction is too little, too late.

Now, when we walk into stores with music we don't like we turn on our heels and walk right back out.  People sitting on a plane don't have that option.

But, except of course in cases where it's legislated, one cannot expect the rest of the world to conform to the restrictions of one's medical condition, and I speak as someone who suffers from migraine. It's not a reasonable benchmark for deciding whether it's rude or not.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 08:08:03 AM
Six minutes could definitely trigger a migraine.  I imagine it would be more than enough  to trigger a reaction from somebody who has autism. And the reaction doesn't stop when the music stop.  The pain the person is feeling continues when the music is over.  So the music stopping once they notice somebody having a reaction is too little, too late.

Now, when we walk into stores with music we don't like we turn on our heels and walk right back out.  People sitting on a plane don't have that option.

I imagine there are about 10,000 other things involved in air travel that possibly could trigger a migraine or reaction from an autistic person. Crying babies, flashing lights, etc.

Its unlikely something like this would ever happen again. I doubt string quartets are going to become common planes.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Geekychick1984 on June 11, 2013, 08:17:36 AM
I think it was a nice gesture with good intentions, but I do hope they asked if anyone had any objections.  They basically had a captive audience - no one could just leave if they didn't like it.

I personally get migraines, and the high screeching of the violins in a plane would probably make it worse (since I'm sure it would have been triggered by the stress of the situation already).
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Winterlight on June 11, 2013, 08:22:52 AM
The woman at the beginning stated that they were going to play the final movement of Dvorak's American quartet, which is about 6 minutes long.

In that case I would consider it a welcome break from boredom and applaud it.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TeamBhakta on June 11, 2013, 08:35:53 AM
Quote
I think sometimes people get etiquette confused with "I don't like x therefore anyone doing it in my presence is rude". I see that on this thread. Just because one does not like violins, it doesn't make what they did rude.  Other people were no doubt enjoying the performance. So many people seem to expect that the world be tailored to their preferences and that they should never have to come across anything that they don't like. Sometimes we have to give way to others preferences. That's just the way the world works and it has nothing to do with etiquette.

One must ask, though, why those of us who want a bit of (reasonable, sort of achievable) peace & quiet on the plane are the ones who must bend. I'm getting flashback to the thread where people were singing in the ICU waiting room.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: perpetua on June 11, 2013, 09:03:47 AM
I don't think you can really compare a plane with an ICU (intensive care?) waiting room where presumably most people are ill and in need of rest.

If the majority of people are enjoying something that brings a bit of joy to their day, why should the preference of someone who wants peace and quiet in a public situation (not always realistic) take priority? It's five minutes.

I think if you're of the opinion that you must have peace and quiet, then you take steps to provide that and take earplugs with you just in case, because in the majority of public situations it's not reasonable to expect it anyway.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TeamBhakta on June 11, 2013, 09:12:32 AM
I don't think you can really compare a plane with an ICU (intensive care?) waiting room where presumably most people are ill and in need of rest.

If the majority of people are enjoying something that brings a bit of joy to their day, why should the preference of someone who wants peace and quiet in a public situation (not always realistic) take priority? It's five minutes.

I think if you're of the opinion that you must have peace and quiet, then you take steps to provide that and take earplugs with you just in case, because in the majority of public situations it's not reasonable to expect it anyway.

The thing is, though, I would not expect when buying a plane ticket that a band would later break out their equipment & strike up a tune on that plane.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: rashea on June 11, 2013, 09:18:49 AM
I like classical, but that was a poor choice of piece for that setting. It's one that isn't to many peoples' taste.

I have a few other questions we may never get answers too. Most musicians I know would have detuned their instrument before flying, because otherwise the pressure changes can damage a violin. That piece was played in tune (playing out of tune would have been really unforgivable). So, how much time did they spend tuning? And while I like the sound of strings being played, tuning is not generally a joyful noise. So, it wasn't 6 minutes unless each of those musicians had their instruments tuned before they started.

I also think that in general a captive audience is rude. If you're doing something unexpected in a place where people can not leave, it's on you to make sure you aren't irritating people. If you keep it brief, and are sensitive to people who react to it, I think a short performance is okay, but still not the best idea. If you poll people, then it gets better, because you lessen the likelihood that someone will want to shove a knitting needle into their ear to get away from the sound.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 09:23:56 AM
I don't think you can really compare a plane with an ICU (intensive care?) waiting room where presumably most people are ill and in need of rest.

If the majority of people are enjoying something that brings a bit of joy to their day, why should the preference of someone who wants peace and quiet in a public situation (not always realistic) take priority? It's five minutes.

I think if you're of the opinion that you must have peace and quiet, then you take steps to provide that and take earplugs with you just in case, because in the majority of public situations it's not reasonable to expect it anyway.

The thing is, though, I would not expect when buying a plane ticket that a band would later break out their equipment & strike up a tune on that plane.

I always bring earplugs when I fly. Not because I am expecting a string quartet, but because I always seem to book the airline's screaming baby package.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Roe on June 11, 2013, 09:26:14 AM
I don't think you can really compare a plane with an ICU (intensive care?) waiting room where presumably most people are ill and in need of rest.

If the majority of people are enjoying something that brings a bit of joy to their day, why should the preference of someone who wants peace and quiet in a public situation (not always realistic) take priority? It's five minutes.

I think if you're of the opinion that you must have peace and quiet, then you take steps to provide that and take earplugs with you just in case, because in the majority of public situations it's not reasonable to expect it anyway.

The thing is, though, I would not expect when buying a plane ticket that a band would later break out their equipment & strike up a tune on that plane.

I'm sure most wouldn't expect a band to play on an airplane but it is reasonable, when flying, to expect many annoying, loud noises and so if those bother you (general you) then it's reasonable to buy ear plugs if loud, public noises bother you.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: That Anime Chick on June 11, 2013, 09:31:29 AM
The people I'm reading who say that it sounds awful, is screechy, please consider the source. It's raw, meaning no clean up has been done on the video being taken. It was most likely recorded via smartphone. Unless you get a professional recording done, it's not going to sound pretty and perfect.

As for the performance itself, I would have enjoyed it. I'm probably biased because I spent many years playing in string and symphony orchestras. The fact that there was an announcement overhead meant that the pilot and the crew most likely saw it as an opportunity to try and keep people entertained while they were stuck. After seeing news clips and reading articles about people being stranded on planes for close to 8 hours, I'd be happy for anything to distract me.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: magicdomino on June 11, 2013, 09:41:18 AM

I imagine there are about 10,000 other things involved in air travel that possibly could trigger a migraine or reaction from an autistic person. Crying babies, flashing lights, etc.

Especially since this plane was just sitting at the airport for hours.  It's hot, it's stuffy, you have to keep your seat in an upright position and the shades up (no sleeping), people are complaining, some of them are complaining loudly, the airplaine's sound system isn't on yet so no movie, water may not be available.  You'd be lucky if you didn't get a headache.

Heck, if some musicians decided to tune up, I'd be calling out requests.   "Yo, LL, do you know 'Freebird'?"   ;)
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 11, 2013, 09:53:43 AM
The people I'm reading who say that it sounds awful, is screechy, please consider the source. It's raw, meaning no clean up has been done on the video being taken. It was most likely recorded via smartphone. Unless you get a professional recording done, it's not going to sound pretty and perfect.

As for the performance itself, I would have enjoyed it. I'm probably biased because I spent many years playing in string and symphony orchestras. The fact that there was an announcement overhead meant that the pilot and the crew most likely saw it as an opportunity to try and keep people entertained while they were stuck. After seeing news clips and reading articles about people being stranded on planes for close to 8 hours, I'd be happy for anything to distract me.

Regardless of the sound quality of the recording surely you understand that many people - in general and in this thread - do not like the sound of violins. They have a very particular sound which many find quite irritating. The absolute best violin for some people is still going to be a truly awful sound. The difference between classical violin music and classical guitar music is so great, its hard to describe. Classical music played on a piano is also in a class of its own. As part of an orchestra violins can be lovely, but on their own, unless played fiddle style, I think they make a rather ugly sound, some people take a step further to uncomfortable sound.


I think the big thing here for me though is the "trapped" element. This was a loud performance one could not just ignore or walk away from. People were trapped not only on the plane, but the performance spilled over into the aisle so they could not even walk up and down to keep blood flowing or use the restrooms, or get a cup of water to drink. This trapped them even further.

Now as I said earlier, a few minutes I'd tolerate it. But I would never consider it a "gift" or "a wonderful thing" or a "treat". I would consider it something I had to put up with as the price of being part of of a society full of other people. I would hope it would be kept short due to their consideration of people like me though who didn't enjoy it.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sammycat on June 11, 2013, 09:56:23 AM
I think the big thing here for me though is the "trapped" element. This was a loud performance one could not just ignore or walk away from. People were trapped not only on the plane, but the performance spilled over into the aisle so they could not even walk up and down to keep blood flowing or use the restrooms, or get a cup of water to drink. This trapped them even further.

Now as I said earlier, a few minutes I'd tolerate it. But I would never consider it a "gift" or "a wonderful thing" or a "treat". I would consider it something I had to put up with as the price of being part of of a society full of other people. I would hope it would be kept short due to their consideration of people like me though who didn't enjoy it.

POD.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Surianne on June 11, 2013, 10:09:44 AM
I had no idea that there were lots of people who hated violins.  Funny what you learn here. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: cwm on June 11, 2013, 10:20:52 AM
Quote
I think sometimes people get etiquette confused with "I don't like x therefore anyone doing it in my presence is rude". I see that on this thread. Just because one does not like violins, it doesn't make what they did rude.  Other people were no doubt enjoying the performance. So many people seem to expect that the world be tailored to their preferences and that they should never have to come across anything that they don't like. Sometimes we have to give way to others preferences. That's just the way the world works and it has nothing to do with etiquette.

One must ask, though, why those of us who want a bit of (reasonable, sort of achievable) peace & quiet on the plane are the ones who must bend. I'm getting flashback to the thread where people were singing in the ICU waiting room.

I've been on a plane that was stuck on the tarmac for over an hour. There was no peace and quiet. Everyone was rustling in their seats, talking, getting on their cell phones and conversing loudly, complaining to the flight attendants, and the children on board were starting to scream. Luckily they deplaned us, but I can't imagine that staying stuck on the plane for longer would constitute anyone's definition of peace and quiet.

I have anxiety attacks, especially in crowds or places that I can't escape easily from. In an airplane, when I'm stuck and everyone else is getting antsy, I have been known to force myself into breathing exercises or start humming quietly to myself because sometimes music is literally THE ONLY thing keeping me from sobbing hysterically. I would have welcomed this music, or any music. It likely would have been a lifeline to me.

I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

Was it rude? Unless someone had raised objections and they kept going despite them, no. This group set up in the seats, there were other people scrambling around holding their music for them, the cello was angled into the aisle. I can't imagine how it could have come as a surprise to anyone that they were going to play. There was plenty of time to speak up if someone had a problem with it. It would appear that nobody did, so they played a relatively short piece and then went back to waiting. I don't see how that could be construed as bad.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: katiescarlett on June 11, 2013, 10:30:26 AM
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

However, I do realize they meant well, and that other people probably enjoyed it, which is why I agree with Toots that if they kept it under 6 minutes (I'd even say 10 minutes) it's not rude. Just keep it to that.

* Unfortunately I'm not exaggerating. I don't know why Celtic singing causes such a visceral reaction in me, but it's horrible :(

They were not rude.  If this is the case, it is up to you (generic you) to speak up before they begin playing.  I am sure if someone on the plane had a good reason for not wanting them to play, they would not have.  Especially in the case of someone with a medical issue like autism or migraines.  You simply have to speak up.  They were trying to be nice and give the people on the plane a gift.  These people seemed very much to enjoy the impromptu performance.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sparksals on June 11, 2013, 10:41:03 AM
Quote
there was not thought to the people who were in the middle of a very long trip, who were tired and wanted to sleep

Where was that mentioned in the video? How do you know they didn't ask beforehand? See my earlier post - and those following mine about taking some responsibility for yourself.

StarFaerie, that possibility has already been covered by several people in the thread.


Why should I take responsibility for myself when they are the ones doing the intruding?  THEY should have asked if it was alright.   We don't know if they asked or not.  From the video, it looks like they just up and played.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 10:42:45 AM
Quote
there was not thought to the people who were in the middle of a very long trip, who were tired and wanted to sleep

Where was that mentioned in the video? How do you know they didn't ask beforehand? See my earlier post - and those following mine about taking some responsibility for yourself.

StarFaerie, that possibility has already been covered by several people in the thread.

Why should I take responsibility for myself when they are the ones doing the intruding?  THEY should have asked if it was alright.   We don't know if they asked or not.  From the video, it looks like they just up and played.

It's clear to me they must have said something before, since all of those people managed to get their cameras out.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sparksals on June 11, 2013, 10:46:44 AM
I think sometimes people get etiquette confused with "I don't like x therefore anyone doing it in my presence is rude". I see that on this thread. Just because one does not like violins, it doesn't make what they did rude.  Other people were no doubt enjoying the performance. So many people seem to expect that the world be tailored to their preferences and that they should never have to come across anything that they don't like. Sometimes we have to give way to others preferences. That's just the way the world works and it has nothing to do with etiquette.

If I were on this plane, I would be ticked.   I think about when dH and I were coming back from France after a VERY long trip via Helsinki.  We also had a long layover in Chicago and a long line in US Customs.  On our flight home to MSP, if that orchestra started to play, I probably would have got up and destringed their violins. 

Would you really have done this, or is this just written for effect?

Quote
Music is such a personal choice and I believe they overstepped by inflicting it on everyone without opportunity to opt out.  What were people who didn't like it to do?  Get up and be the party killers? 

I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)


Yes, just wrote for effect.


I don't expect to board an international flight and have an orchestra playing.  There is a reason people wear headphones when listening to music or watching their DVD player.  It is not something tailored for 'my' preference.  It is REASONABLE to expect a certain level of noise on a flight... aka people milling around, conversations btwn passengers sharing a row... etc.  NOt an orchestra playing music. 


I like Classic Rock.  On an International flight, I wouldn't appreciate Aerosmith or Dave Matthews Band doing the same thing... even if I like their music, an airplane is not the place to do it!


How many times have we seen posts about people wearing headphones on a flight so loud that the people around can hear it.  That is rude.   Don't know why an orchestra playing on the plane isn't also! 


It would be equally rude if someone started playing their movie or music with no headphones.  Why is the orchestra different?  It is FAR more disruptive.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sparksals on June 11, 2013, 10:48:04 AM
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

I think that's a bit different. What I'm questioning is the "I don't like this type of music, therefore it's rude and they should stop" angle, or even the "I'm tired and grumpy after a long flight therefore it's rude and they must stop" angle. I don't think their opinion or preference trumps that of those who *are* enjoying it.


I would not want *any* type of live music on a flight. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sparksals on June 11, 2013, 10:49:34 AM
Six minutes could definitely trigger a migraine.  I imagine it would be more than enough  to trigger a reaction from somebody who has autism. And the reaction doesn't stop when the music stop.  The pain the person is feeling continues when the music is over.  So the music stopping once they notice somebody having a reaction is too little, too late.

Now, when we walk into stores with music we don't like we turn on our heels and walk right back out.  People sitting on a plane don't have that option.

But, except of course in cases where it's legislated, one cannot expect the rest of the world to conform to the restrictions of one's medical condition, and I speak as someone who suffers from migraine. It's not a reasonable benchmark for deciding whether it's rude or not.


Reasonably, one would not expect a loud orchestra to perform on an airplane.   It is a significant diversion from the norm of reasonable expectations. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: MariaE on June 11, 2013, 10:52:44 AM
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

However, I do realize they meant well, and that other people probably enjoyed it, which is why I agree with Toots that if they kept it under 6 minutes (I'd even say 10 minutes) it's not rude. Just keep it to that.

* Unfortunately I'm not exaggerating. I don't know why Celtic singing causes such a visceral reaction in me, but it's horrible :(

They were not rude.  If this is the case, it is up to you (generic you) to speak up before they begin playing.  I am sure if someone on the plane had a good reason for not wanting them to play, they would not have.  Especially in the case of someone with a medical issue like autism or migraines.  You simply have to speak up.  They were trying to be nice and give the people on the plane a gift.  These people seemed very much to enjoy the impromptu performance.

I think you quoted me by mistake. I never said they were rude. In fact, I've said repeatedly that they were not rude - even in the post you quoted here  :)
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: SiotehCat on June 11, 2013, 10:58:36 AM
I think they were rude. It's no different than if I took a boom box with me and started playing heavy metal.

I ride the bus, and even on the bus there is a rule that your music cannot be loud enough for other people to hear it.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Olympia on June 11, 2013, 11:00:02 AM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: gollymolly2 on June 11, 2013, 11:43:24 AM
I don't think you can really compare a plane with an ICU (intensive care?) waiting room where presumably most people are ill and in need of rest.

If the majority of people are enjoying something that brings a bit of joy to their day, why should the preference of someone who wants peace and quiet in a public situation (not always realistic) take priority? It's five minutes.

I think if you're of the opinion that you must have peace and quiet, then you take steps to provide that and take earplugs with you just in case, because in the majority of public situations it's not reasonable to expect it anyway.

The thing is, though, I would not expect when buying a plane ticket that a band would later break out their equipment & strike up a tune on that plane.

I'm sure most wouldn't expect a band to play on an airplane but it is reasonable, when flying, to expect many annoying, loud noises and so if those bother you (general you) then it's reasonable to buy ear plugs if loud, public noises bother you.

I see a difference between normal loud sounds on an airplane and a string quartet. I can function in the world. Normal plane sounds - baby crying, a person talking loudly on the phone, two people having a conversation, lots of announcements from the pilot, the hum of the engine (sometimes theyre really noisy) - don't bother me. I can still have a conversation and hear myself over the people around me. I can put in headphones and (mostly) drown it out. I can put in earphones and (mostly) drown it out. Not an option with something this loud.

Not a huge deal or anything. I just don't think the posts that people should be prepared for noise on a plane are being entirely fair. Yes, you should be prepared for noise.  No, you're not entitled to live in a bubble that caters to all your needs.  That doesnt mean that it's unreasonable after being stuck in a small box filled with circulated air with a bunch of strangers for a long period of time to want to be free from sounds (even nice ones) that are so loud that they effectively prevent you from doing anything but sitting there listening to them.



Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: citadelle on June 11, 2013, 11:50:32 AM
I really think that this was one of those once-in-a-lifetime things where all circumstances converged to make it a good experience for all.

In general, unannounced entertainment on a plane would be rude. Imagine stand up comedy? Or a child's recital? Or Sheldon Cooper's Tuvan throat singing or his theramin?

However, this seems to be that one particular instance where everyone agreed and enjoyed it. That is a good thing!
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: SiotehCat on June 11, 2013, 11:54:37 AM
I really think that this was one of those once-in-a-lifetime things where all circumstances converged to make it a good experience for all.

In general, unannounced entertainment on a plane would be rude. Imagine stand up comedy? Or a child's recital? Or Sheldon Cooper's Tuvan throat singing or his theramin?

However, this seems to be that one particular instance where everyone agreed and enjoyed it. That is a good thing!

Do they have statements from everyone on the plan saying they all enjoyed it? Or are you assuming that because nobody spoke out at the time?

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TeamBhakta on June 11, 2013, 11:58:54 AM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Fleur on June 11, 2013, 12:08:48 PM

I would have loved it, I think it was a lovely getsure.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 12:09:07 PM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.

Several of us in the thread have said we would be delighted by such happenings. I would definitely considerate a service. A free concert by world class musicians.

And this thread also tells us that for some, it would be equivalent to the 5th Circle of Hell. None of us were there though, unluckily for some, lucky for others.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: katiescarlett on June 11, 2013, 12:09:39 PM
I think the people who didn't like it should probably realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and that other people were enjoying the performance. Why be a party killer at all? Why not say to yourself "It's not to my taste, but others are enjoying it" ? Why must the world be tailored for *your* preference? (you general, not you specific)

I hear what you're saying and I even mostly agree with you, but what if it's not a matter of preference but of mental or physical health? PPs have already mentioned autistic people who'd react badly to this kind of performance, or people for whom it would trigger migraines. Music has an irrational effect on some people. I may love (most) classical music, but if I had been treated (and I don't mean that sarcastically - I know they'd mean well) to a concert with Celtic singing, I'd be a sobbing, hysterical mess, curled up in a fetal position, rocking with my hands over my ears*. Usually I can just walk away and it's no big deal, but in a situation such as this I couldn't.

However, I do realize they meant well, and that other people probably enjoyed it, which is why I agree with Toots that if they kept it under 6 minutes (I'd even say 10 minutes) it's not rude. Just keep it to that.

* Unfortunately I'm not exaggerating. I don't know why Celtic singing causes such a visceral reaction in me, but it's horrible :(

They were not rude.  If this is the case, it is up to you (generic you) to speak up before they begin playing.  I am sure if someone on the plane had a good reason for not wanting them to play, they would not have.  Especially in the case of someone with a medical issue like autism or migraines.  You simply have to speak up.  They were trying to be nice and give the people on the plane a gift.  These people seemed very much to enjoy the impromptu performance.

I think you quoted me by mistake. I never said they were rude. In fact, I've said repeatedly that they were not rude - even in the post you quoted here  :)

Oh, yes, I did!  I am so sorry!
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TeamBhakta on June 11, 2013, 12:16:16 PM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.

Several of us in the thread have said we would be delighted by such happenings. I would definitely considerate a service. A free concert by world class musicians.

And this thread also tells us that for some, it would be equivalent to the 5th Circle of Hell. None of us were there though, unluckily for some, lucky for others.

I still don't see why someone's desire for music to prevent stress on a plane trumps that of someone who needs the music not played to prevent stress.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Fleur on June 11, 2013, 12:20:13 PM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.

Several of us in the thread have said we would be delighted by such happenings. I would definitely considerate a service. A free concert by world class musicians.

And this thread also tells us that for some, it would be equivalent to the 5th Circle of Hell. None of us were there though, unluckily for some, lucky for others.

I still don't see why someone's desire for music to prevent stress on a plane trumps that of someone who needs the music not played to prevent stress.

Neither trumps the other, but the majority would probably prefer music to no music. I would imagine someone severly affected would speak up.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 11, 2013, 12:22:06 PM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.

Several of us in the thread have said we would be delighted by such happenings. I would definitely considerate a service. A free concert by world class musicians.

And this thread also tells us that for some, it would be equivalent to the 5th Circle of Hell. None of us were there though, unluckily for some, lucky for others.

I still don't see why someone's desire for music to prevent stress on a plane trumps that of someone who needs the music not played to prevent stress.

Especially since its really easy and quite common to play music privately via headphones. In fact in my whole life I have never been on a commercial flight that didn't have free music available for individuals - all you have to do is plug a set of earphones into your arm rest. Ok it might not be your absolute favorite selection, but its always there.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: cwm on June 11, 2013, 12:26:36 PM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.

Several of us in the thread have said we would be delighted by such happenings. I would definitely considerate a service. A free concert by world class musicians.

And this thread also tells us that for some, it would be equivalent to the 5th Circle of Hell. None of us were there though, unluckily for some, lucky for others.

I still don't see why someone's desire for music to prevent stress on a plane trumps that of someone who needs the music not played to prevent stress.

It's not a desire of music to prevent stress, it's a need, just as important as a need not to have music. I'm saying that personally I would have been hysterical in that situation, having just as much of a meltdown that someone may have been having due to the music. One need doesn't trump another, they're competing needs.

However, it didn't appear that there were people on the plane who had a meltdown due to the impromptu concert. No, I wasn't there, so I don't know firsthand, but from every single news report on it, people were thankful. Not a single negative report has come out of it.

Let us assume, however, that nobody was triggered into a meltdown because of this. No medical problems, no physical needs, just desires. Why would one person's desire not to listen to this type of music be more important than the desires of the other passengers to enjoy the moment as it happened?

Especially since its really easy and quite common to play music privately via headphones. In fact in my whole life I have never been on a commercial flight that didn't have free music available for individuals - all you have to do is plug a set of earphones into your arm rest. Ok it might not be your absolute favorite selection, but its always there.

From what I understand, when the plane is on the tarmac, nothing is turned on. There is no air, no overhead lights, there isn't any music being pumped through the systems, so you can't just plug in a set of earphones.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 12:27:31 PM
I understand other people have other conditions and may not have appreciated this, but I am the flip side. In 3 hours of playing music from my phone without charing it, it would have been dead. And without music to keep me calm, I would have been an absolute wreck. I don't like Dvorak, there are much better classical pieces/composers that I would prefer, but this music could literally have been my saving grace if I was in that situation.

That's really interesting. If we look at this from every angle, then these musicians may have been performing a service for some passengers.

That's stretching it a bit, lbr.

And by "peace & quiet", I didn't mean nobody couldn't make noise at all. I would expect a baby to cry, people to carry on conversations, etc but I wouldn't expect someone to, say, pull out their music & play it without headphones on.

Several of us in the thread have said we would be delighted by such happenings. I would definitely considerate a service. A free concert by world class musicians.

And this thread also tells us that for some, it would be equivalent to the 5th Circle of Hell. None of us were there though, unluckily for some, lucky for others.

I still don't see why someone's desire for music to prevent stress on a plane trumps that of someone who needs the music not played to prevent stress.

No one said anything about anyone trumping anything.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sebastienne on June 11, 2013, 12:29:43 PM
Keep in mind, too, that planes aren't designed for their acoustic properties. Sounds near you can be very loud, but get a few rows away, and they'll be a lot quieter.  I sat next to a screaming baby on a recent flight; my husband ended up about 10 rows behind me and heard nothing. This is definitely true in the air, with engine noise and inner-ear adjustment happening, but even on the tarmac, sound isn't going to carry that well from the front of the plane to the back.

Depending on the size of the plane, it would be entirely possible to move away from the music if it bothered you. You might still hear it, but at a very different volume than if you were right. there. Would those objecting to these musicians object as strongly to piped-in music?
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: That Anime Chick on June 11, 2013, 12:33:38 PM
The people I'm reading who say that it sounds awful, is screechy, please consider the source. It's raw, meaning no clean up has been done on the video being taken. It was most likely recorded via smartphone. Unless you get a professional recording done, it's not going to sound pretty and perfect.

As for the performance itself, I would have enjoyed it. I'm probably biased because I spent many years playing in string and symphony orchestras. The fact that there was an announcement overhead meant that the pilot and the crew most likely saw it as an opportunity to try and keep people entertained while they were stuck. After seeing news clips and reading articles about people being stranded on planes for close to 8 hours, I'd be happy for anything to distract me.

Regardless of the sound quality of the recording surely you understand that many people - in general and in this thread - do not like the sound of violins. They have a very particular sound which many find quite irritating. The absolute best violin for some people is still going to be a truly awful sound. The difference between classical violin music and classical guitar music is so great, its hard to describe. Classical music played on a piano is also in a class of its own. As part of an orchestra violins can be lovely, but on their own, unless played fiddle style, I think they make a rather ugly sound, some people take a step further to uncomfortable sound.


I think the big thing here for me though is the "trapped" element. This was a loud performance one could not just ignore or walk away from. People were trapped not only on the plane, but the performance spilled over into the aisle so they could not even walk up and down to keep blood flowing or use the restrooms, or get a cup of water to drink. This trapped them even further.

Now as I said earlier, a few minutes I'd tolerate it. But I would never consider it a "gift" or "a wonderful thing" or a "treat". I would consider it something I had to put up with as the price of being part of of a society full of other people. I would hope it would be kept short due to their consideration of people like me though who didn't enjoy it.

Then we shall have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 12:44:46 PM
Quote
THEY should have asked if it was alright.   We don't know if they asked or not.  From the video, it looks like they just up and played.

THEY may have asked if it was alright.  As you just admitted yourself, you don't know that they didn't.  From the video, it looks as if we're catching the event from a point after they would have asked and gotten any feedback as to medical conditions that would keep them from doing it.  Plus, as someone else noted, people were already filming it - which means that this wasn't starting at the moment we tuned in; there was, obviously, time prior to where we arrived in the scene where the people were asked.

You don't know that they did ask, but you also don't know that they didn't.  And, if the latter is true (which is entirely possible), there was no rudeness.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: rashea on June 11, 2013, 12:47:50 PM
Quote
THEY should have asked if it was alright.   We don't know if they asked or not.  From the video, it looks like they just up and played.

THEY may have asked if it was alright.  As you just admitted yourself, you don't know that they didn't.  From the video, it looks as if we're catching the event from a point after they would have asked and gotten any feedback as to medical conditions that would keep them from doing it.  Plus, as someone else noted, people were already filming it - which means that this wasn't starting at the moment we tuned in; there was, obviously, time prior to where we arrived in the scene where the people were asked.

You don't know that they did ask, but you also don't know that they didn't.  And, if the latter is true (which is entirely possible), there was no rudeness.

More telling to me is that the instruments were tuned.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 12:51:52 PM
rashea, that too!

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: citadelle on June 11, 2013, 02:01:21 PM
I really think that this was one of those once-in-a-lifetime things where all circumstances converged to make it a good experience for all.

In general, unannounced entertainment on a plane would be rude. Imagine stand up comedy? Or a child's recital? Or Sheldon Cooper's Tuvan throat singing or his theramin?

However, this seems to be that one particular instance where everyone agreed and enjoyed it. That is a good thing!

Do they have statements from everyone on the plan saying they all enjoyed it? Or are you assuming that because nobody spoke out at the time?

Assuming since all the reporting has been positive and based on the visible reactions in the video.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Green Bean on June 11, 2013, 02:18:52 PM
I heard a clip of this on NPR yesterday. They played the flight attendant announcing the impromptu concert, as well as people assisting to hold sheet music and turn the pages. The celloist even had the cello in the aisle due to lack of space. It sounds like there was probably time for someone to object if they needed to get instruments out of cases and sheet music set up.

And the sound quality I heard didn't seen unpleasant to me, but I'm tone deaf. What do I know.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: StuffedGrapeLeaves on June 11, 2013, 02:51:35 PM
Playing devil's advocate (I actually wouldn't mind the concert on the plane), would someone who objected to it really speak up at the time?  I can see it being one of the situations where the majority didn't seem to mind, the musicians already started to set up, etc., so the minority who did mind just kept quiet and hoped that it wouldn't go on for very long. 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 02:55:51 PM
Quote
would someone who objected to it really speak up at the time

Maybe.  Maybe not.  But if you choose to keep quiet when you had the chance to say, "Excuse me, but I suffer from migraines/autism/whatever ailment, and the concert is going to exacerbate it," it's not someone else's fault.  At some point, you really do have to stand up for your own health and say something.  You're the only one who can.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Oh Joy on June 11, 2013, 02:58:00 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Curious Cat on June 11, 2013, 02:59:34 PM
Playing devil's advocate (I actually wouldn't mind the concert on the plane), would someone who objected to it really speak up at the time?  I can see it being one of the situations where the majority didn't seem to mind, the musicians already started to set up, etc., so the minority who did mind just kept quiet and hoped that it wouldn't go on for very long.

This seems very possible - I enjoy classical music but I wouldn't enjoy this impromptu concert.  However I understand the spirit in which it was intended and probably wouldn't have said anything.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: perpetua on June 11, 2013, 03:00:48 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: snowdragon on June 11, 2013, 03:06:29 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

thirded.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: cwm on June 11, 2013, 03:07:03 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

thirded.

Put me firmly in this camp as well.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: MariaE on June 11, 2013, 03:09:34 PM
Quote
I think you quoted me by mistake. I never said they were rude. In fact, I've said repeatedly that they were not rude - even in the post you quoted here  :)

Oh, yes, I did!  I am so sorry!

No worries :) I just got confused :)
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Curious Cat on June 11, 2013, 03:12:12 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

Conversely you could say that some of the posts in this thread smack of "If I enjoy it you must as well."  Just saying, that's a double edged sword of a statement.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: MariaE on June 11, 2013, 03:13:17 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

I don't think that's what people are saying though. At least, it's certainly not what I'm saying (moot point, as I love classical music and am too spineless to say anything even if I didn't, but anyway...) What I'm hearing some of us saying is that it's a kind thought, but the performers need to realize it might not be to everybody's taste - and could even be harmful to some - and keep it an appropriate length because of that.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Surianne on June 11, 2013, 03:18:50 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

thirded.

Put me firmly in this camp as well.

I agree as well.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 03:21:27 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

I don't think that's what people are saying though. At least, it's certainly not what I'm saying (moot point, as I love classical music and am too spineless to say anything even if I didn't, but anyway...) What I'm hearing some of us saying is that it's a kind thought, but the performers need to realize it might not be to everybody's taste - and could even be harmful to some - and keep it an appropriate length because of that.

Posters in this thread have been calling the performers rude, even though they were clearly invited and no one objected. (And most people in the video are clearly enjoying it).
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 11, 2013, 03:22:13 PM
I find it kind of disheartening that some people seem to expect it to ne viewed as a good deed eben if it triggers a migraine or some other reaction. The expectation that people should be appreciative of a painful assault is mind boggling.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Surianne on June 11, 2013, 03:23:10 PM
Here's another example.  I was on the train in December and looking forward to a pretty quiet 3-hour train ride, had my laptop with me, was going to get a bunch of work done.

At the first stop 45 minutes from my city, a HUGE group of kids got on...with Santa Claus!  They all entered the train and started singing Christmas carols.  Santa was jingling his bells and the other kids who were already on the train were incredibly excited.  This lasted for about 30 minutes until the next stop, when Santa and the kids got off at the next town.  Mrs. Claus and another group of kids were waiting for them.

I have no idea what it was all about.  I lost those 30 minutes of work during the Christmas carols and general pandemonium, but goodness those kids were excited and had so much fun.  I could have complained.  Instead I joined in and sang carols, and it's a great memory.  And I don't even really like kids.

Sometimes it's worth it just to go with the flow in an unusual situation and realize that the power of everyone else having a special moment outweighs your own preferences.  (Medical conditions are different, of course.)

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Yvaine on June 11, 2013, 03:25:03 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

Me too. I'm not very up on my classical music and would never be able to identify it as Dvorak, but it would be something to break up the monotony and that was meant as a kindness.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 11, 2013, 03:27:15 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

I don't think that's what people are saying though. At least, it's certainly not what I'm saying (moot point, as I love classical music and am too spineless to say anything even if I didn't, but anyway...) What I'm hearing some of us saying is that it's a kind thought, but the performers need to realize it might not be to everybody's taste - and could even be harmful to some - and keep it an appropriate length because of that.

Posters in this thread have been calling the performers rude, even though they were clearly invited and no one objected. (And most people in the video are clearly enjoying it).


You aren't the first person to say this (the bolded). I watched and re-watched the video and first off you can not see the majority of the people on the flight and second of the ones we can see only one is smiling, and several don't clap. Now not smiling and not clapping doesn't mean they aren't enjoying it but it certainly also does not convey "clearly enjoying it."
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Fleur on June 11, 2013, 03:30:02 PM
Here's another example.  I was on the train in December and looking forward to a pretty quiet 3-hour train ride, had my laptop with me, was going to get a bunch of work done.

At the first stop 45 minutes from my city, a HUGE group of kids got on...with Santa Claus!  They all entered the train and started singing Christmas carols.  Santa was jingling his bells and the other kids who were already on the train were incredibly excited.  This lasted for about 30 minutes until the next stop, when Santa and the kids got off at the next town.  Mrs. Claus and another group of kids were waiting for them.

I have no idea what it was all about.  I lost those 30 minutes of work during the Christmas carols and general pandemonium, but goodness those kids were excited and had so much fun.  I could have complained.  Instead I joined in and sang carols, and it's a great memory.  And I don't even really like kids.

Sometimes it's worth it just to go with the flow in an unusual situation and realize that the power of everyone else having a special moment outweighs your own preferences.  (Medical conditions are different, of course.)

This is a lovely story! I also would have joined in, although I don't like kids and can't really sing either ;D
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 03:30:31 PM
Quote
eben if it triggers a migraine or some other reaction. The expectation that people should be appreciative of a painful assault is mind boggling.

Several people have addressed this issue several times now.  I'm not clear on why it's still coming up.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 03:32:18 PM
Here's another example.  I was on the train in December and looking forward to a pretty quiet 3-hour train ride, had my laptop with me, was going to get a bunch of work done.

At the first stop 45 minutes from my city, a HUGE group of kids got on...with Santa Claus!  They all entered the train and started singing Christmas carols.  Santa was jingling his bells and the other kids who were already on the train were incredibly excited.  This lasted for about 30 minutes until the next stop, when Santa and the kids got off at the next town.  Mrs. Claus and another group of kids were waiting for them.

I have no idea what it was all about.  I lost those 30 minutes of work during the Christmas carols and general pandemonium, but goodness those kids were excited and had so much fun.  I could have complained.  Instead I joined in and sang carols, and it's a great memory.  And I don't even really like kids.

Sometimes it's worth it just to go with the flow in an unusual situation and realize that the power of everyone else having a special moment outweighs your own preferences.  (Medical conditions are different, of course.)

This is a lovely story! I also would have joined in, although I don't like kids and can't really sing either ;D

I would have joined in, too!  How cute!

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 11, 2013, 03:35:29 PM
Dotty, it keeps coming up because others keep lamenting the fact that there was not universal appreciation and thanks.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 03:39:05 PM
Dotty, it keeps coming up because others keep lamenting the fact that there was not universal appreciation and thanks.

If the migraine-prone didn't speak up before it started and protect themselves, the only choice they have is either universal appreciation and thanks or just silence.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 03:42:32 PM
Honestly, if I had a medical issue that required silence (or, at the very least, no music's being played), I'd be speaking up even if the orchestra hadn't asked for permission (which we haven't ruled out, to begin with).  There was plenty of time before they actually started playing to say something.  If I were too embarrassed or nervous to call attention to myself by saying something to the group at large, I would have confided in one of the flight attendants who could have addressed it anonymously.

But, I sure wouldn't sit there suffering if I had the chance to say something.  If I did, it's my own fault.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 03:45:45 PM
Dotty, it keeps coming up because others keep lamenting the fact that there was not universal appreciation and thanks.

I don't think anyone is bemoaning a lack of universal appreciation. Just that a group of professional musicians trying to do a nice thing are being called rude bores who were callously inflicted pain on a captive audience.

 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Curious Cat on June 11, 2013, 03:47:03 PM
Dotty, it keeps coming up because others keep lamenting the fact that there was not universal appreciation and thanks.

I don't think anyone is bemoaning a lack of universal appreciation. Just that a group of professional musicians trying to do a nice thing are being called rude bores who were callously inflicted pain on a captive audience.

So people aren't allowed to have that as an opinion? Is anyone posting here in contact with the musicians? If not then it is very unlikely that they will ever know that some random internet people thought they were rude.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Sharnita on June 11, 2013, 03:47:31 PM
Dotty, it keeps coming up because others keep lamenting the fact that there was not universal appreciation and thanks.

If the migraine-prone didn't speak up before it started and protect themselves, the only choice they have is either universal appreciation and thanks or just silence.

And some posters are saying everyone shoyld have just been thankful. I disagree. I disagree that they needed to be put in the position of actually saying "I'd prefer not to be for,ed to listen to rhat music in an enclosed space that I can't leave".

What if this was a sermon or a lecture? Even if it seemed like a lot of people would find it comforting, would we encourage it on the plane if it might make somebody uncomfortable?
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: exitzero on June 11, 2013, 03:49:38 PM
Hearing about this story restored my faith in mankind for a bit.

How lovely that those talented people would share their talent in the hopes of making people a little happier.

Honestly, people would complain if they were handing out $100 bills. (The HORROR! Do you know how dirty those bills are!).


Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: cwm on June 11, 2013, 03:51:49 PM
Dotty, it keeps coming up because others keep lamenting the fact that there was not universal appreciation and thanks.

If the migraine-prone didn't speak up before it started and protect themselves, the only choice they have is either universal appreciation and thanks or just silence.

And some posters are saying everyone shoyld have just been thankful. I disagree. I disagree that they needed to be put in the position of actually saying "I'd prefer not to be for,ed to listen to rhat music in an enclosed space that I can't leave".

What if this was a sermon or a lecture? Even if it seemed like a lot of people would find it comforting, would we encourage it on the plane if it might make somebody uncomfortable?

In my opinion, the difference between a lecture or sermon and music is intent. Instruction, religious or otherwise, is the whole intent of a sermon/lecture. People don't generally go to sermons or lectures for entertainment, which is what music is generally treated as.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 03:56:55 PM
And some posters are saying everyone shoyld have just been thankful.

I'm not.  You don't have to be thankful.  But I also don't think they were rude for doing it.

Quote
actually saying "I'd prefer not to be for,ed to listen to rhat music in an enclosed space that I can't leave".

Unfortunately, you're the only one who can.  Someone else can't do it for you.

Quote
What if this was a sermon or a lecture? Even if it seemed like a lot of people would find it comforting, would we encourage it on the plane if it might make somebody uncomfortable?

If they asked ahead of time and no one spoke up, it might be arguable that you were given the chance and didn't take it.  However, I agree with cwm that a sermon/lecture isn't really a good comparison, so it's more of a red herring to me.

Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: TeamBhakta on June 11, 2013, 04:40:52 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

I don't see how "Please don't play on a plane. It gives me headaches / stresses me out" translates to being selfish, ungrateful grumps who want to stomp on joy.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Roe on June 11, 2013, 05:13:24 PM
While I completely respect the range of opinions and experiences on this topic, I must admit that I'm a bit disheartened by the responses.

There's a reason for the expression, 'no good deed goes unpunished.'

I agree. Not only do I find it sad and disheartening that many people are apparently unable to appreciate one of those little things that make the world go round, but would actively try to stop others from doing so. It smacks of "If I don't enjoy it, neither must anyone else"

Yep, yep, yep.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: WillyNilly on June 11, 2013, 05:19:49 PM
I'm disheartened by the selfishness and close-mindedness of so many.

Many of the posters who said they wouldn't like it have said they would tolerate for a short while - in other words people who wouldn't like it would be willing to compromise for the sake of those who do. But it seems the majority of those who would like have no compromise in their posts - they only have disappointment and negative judgement for those who wouldn't enjoy it; people being willing to tolerate it is not enough for them, many posts give the impression the only response they would find acceptable is one of enjoyment or appreciation.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Two Ravens on June 11, 2013, 05:36:07 PM
No one has said there is no compromise. No one has lambasted anyone who said, "Not my cup of tea, but I'd tolerate it for ten minutes."
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: sammycat on June 11, 2013, 05:44:11 PM
I really think that this was one of those once-in-a-lifetime things where all circumstances converged to make it a good experience for all.

I completely and utterly disagree with this statement (above).  There is no proof whatsoever that that was the case.

However, I completely agree with the posts below and several others similar in nature.

I'm disheartened by the selfishness and close-mindedness of so many.

Many of the posters who said they wouldn't like it have said they would tolerate for a short while - in other words people who wouldn't like it would be willing to compromise for the sake of those who do. But it seems the majority of those who would like have no compromise in their posts - they only have disappointment and negative judgement for those who wouldn't enjoy it; people being willing to tolerate it is not enough for them, many posts give the impression the only response they would find acceptable is one of enjoyment or appreciation.

I don't expect to board an international flight and have an orchestra playing.  There is a reason people wear headphones when listening to music or watching their DVD player.  It is not something tailored for 'my' preference.  It is REASONABLE to expect a certain level of noise on a flight... aka people milling around, conversations btwn passengers sharing a row... etc.  NOt an orchestra playing music. 


I like Classic Rock.  On an International flight, I wouldn't appreciate Aerosmith or Dave Matthews Band doing the same thing... even if I like their music, an airplane is not the place to do it!


How many times have we seen posts about people wearing headphones on a flight so loud that the people around can hear it.  That is rude.   Don't know why an orchestra playing on the plane isn't also! 


It would be equally rude if someone started playing their movie or music with no headphones.  Why is the orchestra different?  It is FAR more disruptive.

I would not want *any* type of live music on a flight.

I think they were rude. It's no different than if I took a boom box with me and started playing heavy metal.

I ride the bus, and even on the bus there is a rule that your music cannot be loud enough for other people to hear it.

Playing devil's advocate (I actually wouldn't mind the concert on the plane), would someone who objected to it really speak up at the time?  I can see it being one of the situations where the majority didn't seem to mind, the musicians already started to set up, etc., so the minority who did mind just kept quiet and hoped that it wouldn't go on for very long.


Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: gollymolly2 on June 11, 2013, 05:51:40 PM
It seems really absurd and unnecessary for everyone to declare that it's "disheartening" to hear that other people have a different opinion. It's hard to have a discussion when disagreement results in such over the top reactions.

Some of us think this was an awesome thing to happen. Some of us think this could have been really awkward and uncomfortable for some people who felt trapped there. These aren't actually mutually exclusive positions.
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: DottyG on June 11, 2013, 06:06:24 PM
I have to agree with gollymolly on the "disheartening" aspect.  I think that it might be better to agree that there are two sets of opinions here.  And that both do have a right to feel the way they do - even if the opinion isn't shared.

But I also think that there could (maybe?) be some kind of compromise taking place if you were on the plane?  What that would be, I don't know off the top of my head.  But surely there's something that, while doesn't completely satisfy both parties, does make things a little less stressful?

And I do stand by my comment that, if you have a medical condition, it really is important that you speak up as such.  If hearing the music would cause you uncontrollable pain, I can't imagine any rational person's saying, "Well, we're going to do it anyway."  I would think that most people would, hopefully, realize that a person's health is first and foremost.
 
Does everyone have to enjoy the music?  That's kind of a silly question.  There are many genres of music for a reason; everyone loves a different sound.  What appeals to me isn't what appeals to you.  But is it possible to listen to another type of music with respect for those playing?  Of course.  Everyone here would do so, I'd think.
 
 
Title: Re: Dvorak on the plane
Post by: Wordgeek on June 11, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
Since the discussion has been reduced to people shipping at each other rather than, oh, useful and intelligent discourse, the thread is closed.